AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ju
October 18, 2010 - November 12, 2010
Finally, I bypassed the B&C flasher and checked the relay operation back in
the original circuit.
First, I turn on the lights. Then, I turn on the wigwag, and the lights sta
y
constant (simulating timer less than 30 seconds). Third, I=92ll close the
relay (simulating 30 seconds has elapsed) so current flows through the
flasher (although since it=92s not hooked up, the lights should turn off.)
It
works as I expected it to.
http://videos.videopress.com/Dufybbyc/20101017-019_dvd.mp4
Next steps:
1) Figure out if the B&C wig-wag module is working correctly and I am makin
g
some sort of error.
2) Once I get that working, hook it back up.
3) Order a 2-10 switch to do the same thing on one switch per my second
drawing:
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/2-10wigwagproposal-off1.jpg
Any comments? Ideas?
-az
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: STROBE NOISE RESOLVED??? |
At 09:14 PM 10/17/2010, you wrote:
One thing further to add Bob. Thank you so much for your help in
solving this dilemma.
Let me clarify, that I'm not trying to find the holy grail of a
totally noise free airplane, but what I thought was an issue might
not be one all together. I just wanted to know and understand what
was going on.
Good for you!
I think that type of tenacity is what has lead me to the very near
completion of the airplane (wheras most homebuilts don't get
finished up), but this tenacity has also been a stop block to
progress in certain instances.
Your post regarding your issue on the king air line and the
usefulnesss of Signal to noise ratio as a benchmark was not read by
me until after I posted a moment ago, but I think you hit the nail on
the head. While taxiing around yesterday... Probably while you were
posting I notice that even with the headhpones past 60% volume turned
up, I couldnt hear the noise with my Jabiru turning past 1300 rpm
anyway. Now with the volume at 50% or below I cant hear it at
all. Is my headphne actually amplifying the minimal noise? I think so.
I've oft suggested that education is not cheap.
The most valuable lessons are hard won in terms
of time, deliberation and scrapped parts. There's
another reader working on a wig-wag configuration
that sparked his interest. It may turn out to
be a useful exercise for his project, it may never
fly. What he learns from this exercise will prove
more valuable than the finished device. I can tell
you that I've thrown far more parts in the trash
than ever ended up in the first successful prototype.
Bottom line is that what you take away from this
experience will be valuable in two ways. It
adds to your bundle of knowledge and makes future
endeavors less expensive for not having to learn
something new. It also qualifies you to be a teacher
of simple-ideas as demonstrated by first-hand
experiences in your shop. Sharing with the rest
of the List members benefits us all.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need |
help.
Howdy Andrew,
The one thing you should consider first is that the MR-16 sized HIDs,
while brighter and cooler than the halogens, still suffer from the same
undersized reflector. Getting the light pattern you want for landing and
taxi just isn't going to happen from the wingtips. Even though they are
very bright, they just don't project that well. The larger reflectors of
the Duckworks style leading edge lamps work better at focusing the light
where you want it. It's not just about how much light, but also about
how well can you focus and project it.
Another thing to think about is that your position and strobe lights are
probably going to be in the wingtips, right? You'll have interference,
in that the strobe/position lights will be in the way of the light
you're trying to throw out in front of the plane from those little bulbs.
I fit my RV-6 (project) wingtips for MR-16 halogens and experienced the
fit and interference problems and the lack of usable light and chose to
go back to wing leading edge lighting. I also fit MR-16 sized HIDs into
some homemade enclosures mounted to the retractable gear of another
plane (the absolute biggest lights we could fit), so I'm not just
supposing about the beam pattern deficiency - I've seen it. In my flying
6A, with Duckworks rectangular lights, I've flown several hundred hours
with 55w halogens, wig/wagging, which were adequate for both recognition
and landing/taxi. When they burned out, I replaced them with 100w bulbs
and, as you might expect, there was a noticeable improvement. You'd
probably be very happy with HIDs in the leading edges, but my educated
guess is you'd be pretty disappointed with the MR-16s in the wingtips.
You are correct about wig/wagging being a good safety feature. Over the
city, with flight following, other aircraft almost always report me in
sight before I see them. The tower controller at my home airport has
also made very positive comments about his ability to find me, with a
glance.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
On 10/18/2010 7:23 AM, Andrew Zachar wrote:
> Warning: The following is LONG and may be borderline too clever and
> complicated for an OBAM airplane, but I'm having fun with the
> experiment for now...
>
> (Also, you can read the following with embedded pictures/video at
> http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/rolling-my-own-wig-wag-circuit/ and
> then http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/wig-wag-fail/)
>
> Let's get started.
>
> Over the last couple months, Ive been eyeing various landing and taxi
> light setups, trying to figure out what I want to do for my airplane.
> Im not super keen on the leading edge landing/taxi light setup right
> now, so I want to focus on putting all the lights in the wingtips.
> There is a Vans wingtip landing light kit that puts two MR16 sized
> bulbs in each wingtip. Supposedly, you can aim one set forward for
> landing (also recognition) lights, and aim the other set down for
> taxi. Ive read on the forums that people havent been too thrilled
> with this setup using the standard 35W and 50W halogens that vans
> provides (Is that what they provide?). Something about not getting
> enough light on the centerline of the aircraft, where you need it for
> landing. I have also read, however, that with the MR16 HID upgrades
> from somewhere like www.planelights.com <http://www.planelights.com>
> or duckworksav.com <http://duckworksav.com>, there is plenty of light
> to go around.
>
> But then we come to wig-wag. I think wig-wag (pulsing lights) for the
> landing lights is a requirement safety wise (for me), so I am planning
> on incorporating a wig-wag circuit into my landing lights.
>
> I
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need |
help (WORK
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Andrew,
What you need is a 555 timer. There are zillions of circuits discussed on the web.
Or maybe someone on the forum will chime in.
I'm not an electronics whiz, but this was a piece of cake to assemble from http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1614.htm?gclid=CNPA94rj2o4CFRcIYgodoEizAA.
The PCB traces may need heavier wire overlays for landing lights, but the relay
contacts are nominally good for 10a in this kit. I'm sure that someone out there
makes a heavier gauge kit or can suggest how to modify this one to handle
more current if your ldg lights require it.
good luck,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316210#316210
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need |
help (WORK
| From: | Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Jon.
I have started to read about the 555 timer, but realized that to get what I
wanted, I was going to have to build it.
That kit looks like the perfect plug-in for the timer part of my setup. I
only need the timer to activate the relay, so I think I'll be okay with
lower amperage. I'm using the B&C 12V 40A SPDT relay for the electrons that
are going to the lights.
I'm still baffled about the wig-wag flasher operation. The buzzing (in the
video) and the inability for it to complete a full "cycle" has me puzzled.
Any ideas?
Thanks again for the kit link. I'll get one ordered this afternoon and
re-post on how it works.
-az
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:55 PM, jonlaury wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
> What you need is a 555 timer. There are zillions of circuits discussed on
> the web. Or maybe someone on the forum will chime in.
>
> I'm not an electronics whiz, but this was a piece of cake to assemble from
> http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1614.htm?gclid=CNPA94rj2o4CFRcIYgodoEizAA
> .
>
> The PCB traces may need heavier wire overlays for landing lights, but the
> relay contacts are nominally good for 10a in this kit. I'm sure that someone
> out there makes a heavier gauge kit or can suggest how to modify this one to
> handle more current if your ldg lights require it.
>
> good luck,
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316210#316210
>
>
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need |
help (WORK
> What you need is a 555 timer. > good luck=2C
> John
John=2C group=2C
Radio Shack sells a neat little handbook with dozens and dozens of 555 time
r circuits. I've
built a few of them (like the infared sensor circuit and the cascading LEDs
circuit=2C to name a couple).
Oh=2C here it is next to computer! Written by Forrest M. Simms=2C it is a
great little book for a guy
to learn AND build some handy little electronic projects. I have his littl
e "mini" notebook=2C plus
I ended up getting the much larger hand-book (which is around here somewher
e).
If you are new to electronics=2C or have limited actual hands-on experience
(like me)=2C the Radio Shack
boolkets are a great way to introduce yourself to hands-on circuits that ar
e fairly easy to build.
Also=2C a quick update. I recently complained about Digikey's shipping pri
ces=2C and found I had overlooked
their shipping choice window. Now that I know better=2C I chose the cheape
st shipping method (I'm in no hurry)=2C
plus I made a direct price comparison with Digikey and Mouser=2C and Digike
y was significantly cheaper.
I feel if you can complain publicly=2C you should reward in public=2C too.
Digikey goes back to the top of my
'electronics houses' list.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need |
help (WORK
| From: | Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com> |
Jon, all:
After looking around a little more at www.electronickits.com, I found this
timer: http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/timers/canck002.htm.
Cheaper, smaller, etc. than the multi-mode timer.
Instead of Delayed ON, it is Delayed OFF. I could easily switch the NO and
NC parts of my circuit, but I'm wondering about the following things:
1) My SPDT relay would be closed less (instead of closed while wig-wagging,
it is only closed for the 30 second timing period (presumably twice per
flight for 30 seconds, instead of twice per flight for 5 minutes?)) Does
this matter?
2) If the timer fails, it would default to flashing, which could flash the
HIDs prematurely (harmful to HIDs). A delayed ON timer failure would
prevent flashing, which is acceptable from a "harmful to HIDs" standpoint.
3) Will I get a few milliseconds of flasher activation before the relay
closes once voltage is applied?
A simplified diagram to illustrate the difference between the two. (Omitted
the switches, but the "switched +14VDC" is the landing light switch.)
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/delayedonvsdelayedoff.jpg
I'm thinking based on the failure cases, I prefer delayed ON.
Maybe I'll just spring for the multi-mode timer and get the delayed ON
function I need (mode 3 as described in
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1614.pdf).
Hmm.
-az
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:55 PM, jonlaury wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
> What you need is a 555 timer. There are zillions of circuits discussed on
> the web. Or maybe someone on the forum will chime in.
>
> I'm not an electronics whiz, but this was a piece of cake to assemble from
> http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1614.htm?gclid=CNPA94rj2o4CFRcIYgodoEizAA
> .
>
> The PCB traces may need heavier wire overlays for landing lights, but the
> relay contacts are nominally good for 10a in this kit. I'm sure that someone
> out there makes a heavier gauge kit or can suggest how to modify this one to
> handle more current if your ldg lights require it.
>
> good luck,
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316210#316210
>
>
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon |
180?
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
New question guys. I did in fact wire from the Garmin 296 to the Dynon using the
DATA OUT 2(violet) wire.
When I install an ELT it will be the ACK-04 with GPS compatability. I imagine
that it will be the same GPS wire (data 2 out (violet)) that I will need to send
position data to the ELT. Assuming this is true, can I splice into that wire?........Geoff
--------
Dual controls. Dynon 180. Icom 210 Garmin 296. Becker transponder. Sigtronics intercom.
Electric flaperons.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316231#316231
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Which connection from a Garmin 296 to my Dynon |
180?
| From: | Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com> |
I spent a lot of time dealing with a similar problem.. In my case, a
496 simply refused to give a serial signal on Data 2! Turns out that
(I believe) only the 296 has TWO data out lines. All the others have
the connector for it, but only one serial out line.
It should be just fine to splice the existing serial wire to several
devices, as long as you don't go crazy. I think I heard the number 5
from either Dynon or Garmin at one point.
It's worth noting that if you upgrade to a different GPS with the same
power/data connector, the Data 2 line will likely not work.
Hope that helps,
--Daniel
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Geoff Heap wrote:
>
> New question guys. I did in fact wire from the Garmin 296 to the Dynon using
the DATA OUT 2(violet) wire.
> When I install an ELT it will be the ACK-04 with GPS compatability. I imagine
that it will be the same GPS wire (data 2 out (violet)) that I will need to send
position data to the ELT. Assuming this is true, can I splice into that wire?........Geoff
>
> --------
> Dual controls. Dynon 180. Icom 210 Garmin 296. Becker transponder. Sigtronics
intercom. Electric flaperons.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316231#316231
>
>
--
Daniel Hooper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott R. Shook" <scott(at)n696js.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane |
Actually hard drives are sealed units (air-tight). They are built in clean
rooms to exacting standards. The only thing that altitude will do is change
the air pressure outside causing strain on casing of the hard drive.
I have completely recovered data off of hard drives that were completely
immersed in floodwaters. Once a roof collapsed and flooded a data center -
the hard drives were removed from the servers, dried out, placed in fresh
servers, and spun right up.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 06:18
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane
Remember that anything using a hard drive depends on a little cushion of air
between the read-write head and the disk. Using a HD above 10,000 feet cabin
pressure is risky.
Apple, Maxtor and Seagate state 10,000 feet as the maximum operating
altitude. Don't forget those IPods.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316027#316027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane |
At 01:10 PM 10/19/2010, you wrote:
Actually hard drives are sealed units (air-tight). They are built in clean
rooms to exacting standards. The only thing that altitude will do is change
the air pressure outside causing strain on casing of the hard drive.
I have completely recovered data off of hard drives that were completely
immersed in floodwaters. Once a roof collapsed and flooded a data center -
the hard drives were removed from the servers, dried out, placed in fresh
servers, and spun right up.
Hmmmm . . . I can see that a drive might be liquid tight
for low pressure heads but they're not well 'sealed'
Emacs!
Looking at the spacing between cover screws that hold
a thin sheet metal cover down against a gasket does not
suggest any ability to keep the drive interior from
exhausting at altitude. I've had one experience with
a data gathering task where I put my laptop in
the tail of a Beechjet. The intent was to stay below
10K feet. I had other equipment in the passenger
cabin too. During the flight, it was determined
that we needed to go up in altitude. Putting a
new hard drive in my laptop was a whole lot cheaper
than the cost of fuel and $time$ to land and
recover the un-protected computer.
After the flight, the hard drive was trashed
and could not be recovered. I seem to recall
foam-plugged vent holes in hard drives that
I've taken apart . . . but examination of
the WD and Maxtors laying around right now
failed to find one without tearing it apart.
This teardown article speaks to an on-purpose
hard drive vent.
http://www.pcdoctor-guide.com/wordpress/?p=595
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane |
Definitely not true. They aren't sealed 100%, they have vents,
and over 10K' definitely does kill them. I had a couple
that wouldn't operate at 13K' one day. Switched to
SSD's because that's what you need over 10K. Yes,
sometimes it'll be fine, but sometimes it won't. And it
CAN damage the drive because the heads need to float on a
cushion of air, and even if it works, the cushion will
be less at altitude.
Air permeates the vents, even if water stays out
reasonably well.
Tim
On 10/19/2010 1:10 PM, Scott R. Shook wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott R. Shook"
>
> Actually hard drives are sealed units (air-tight). They are built in clean
> rooms to exacting standards. The only thing that altitude will do is change
> the air pressure outside causing strain on casing of the hard drive.
>
> I have completely recovered data off of hard drives that were completely
> immersed in floodwaters. Once a roof collapsed and flooded a data center -
> the hard drives were removed from the servers, dried out, placed in fresh
> servers, and spun right up.
>
>
> Scott R. Shook
> RV-7A (Building)
> N696JS (Reserved)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
> Jones
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 06:18
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Laptop supply for your car/airplane
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
>
>
> Remember that anything using a hard drive depends on a little cushion of air
> between the read-write head and the disk. Using a HD above 10,000 feet cabin
> pressure is risky.
>
> Apple, Maxtor and Seagate state 10,000 feet as the maximum operating
> altitude. Don't forget those IPods.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316027#316027
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need |
help (WORKING LINKS)
| From: | Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com> |
So, I finally hooked the thing up to my battery, and got the flasher to
work.
http://videos.videopress.com/h02JJyop/20101020_hd.mp4
This is a little fast for me, and it looks like one of the lights is favore
d
(a little longer illumination). Is there any way to slow down the flashes?
Maybe a rate of 1Hz or 0.5 Hz.
Do I need to build my own with a couple relays and a couple 555 ICs?
-az
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Andrew Zachar
wrote:
> I wired up the flasher from B&C. I not sure it=92s working correctly.
>
> http://videos.videopress.com/uTQKDDyA/20101017-015_dvd.mp4
>
> It=92s making a weird buzzing noise, and the first light comes on and sta
rts
> to dim just as then the second one starts to come on, but it doesn=92t re
ally
> finish a singe cycle.
>
> -az
>
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Coil-Cord report |
A few days ago I posted a note suggesting that the
I-Go DC power adapters for portable electronics
MIGHT have as many as 6 conductors in the product's
coil-cord. This was based on an observed 6-pin
connector on the end.
The adapter I ordered of Ebay arrived to day and
I can report that the cord has only 3 conductors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
| From: | Ed Gilroy <egilroy(at)gmail.com> |
Here's a subject I have not seen discussed, as of yet, on the list or in
Bob's Aero-Electric Connection:
We would like to construct a 12 volt, 24 volt, and 110 volt ground power
cart for powering electrical tools, etc. and for jumping our club airplanes
during the winters here in the wilds of Jersey. We have non-electrified
outdoor tiedown spots.
It would seem (2) 12 volt automotive batteries in series would be
inexpensive and we would keep them charged via simple 12v solar chargers
mounted on top of our storage shed. The 24V charging/inverting devices are
hundreds of dollars.
So how might such a circuit look to "isolate" the batteries for 12 volt
charging and occasional 120v inverter usage from the 12v side and still
allow on-demand 24/28V "jumping"?
My thinking says manually isolate the 24v series circuit until I want to
"jump" and just throw a switch to go 24v with everything else physically
disconnected. Or is there a more elegant solution? Idiot proof would be
best, remember these are pilots !!!
I have thought about this for some months but see no simple solution to
provide this "isolation" function but then I am a BSCS, not an EE.
Thanks... Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with timer)...need |
help (WORKING LINKS)
yes, that would be the way to do it playing with the caps and resistors to
get =0Athe speed you want. Do a search on timing circuits and you will find
a bunch. =0ALet=C2- us know how it goes.=0ADan=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________
_____________________=0AFrom: Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com>=0AT
o: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, October 20, 2010 12:50:14 P
M=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rolling my own WigWag Circuit (with =0A
timer)...need help (WORKING LINKS)=0A=0ASo, I finally hooked the thing up t
o my battery, and got the flasher to work. =0A=0Ahttp://videos.videopress.c
om/h02JJyop/20101020_hd.mp4=0A=0AThis is a little fast for me, and it looks
like one of the lights is favored (a =0Alittle longer illumination). Is th
ere any way to slow down the flashes? Maybe a =0Arate of 1Hz or 0.5 Hz.=0A
=0ADo I need to build my own with a couple relays and a couple 555 ICs?=0A
=0A-az=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Andrew Zachar =0Awrote:=0A=0AI wired up the flasher from B&C. I not sure
it=99s working correctly.=0A>http://videos.videopress.com/uTQKDDyA/20
101017-015_dvd.mp4=0A>It=99s making a weird buzzing noise, and the fi
rst light comes on and starts to =0A>dim just as then the second one starts
to come on, but it doesn=99t really finish =0A>a singe cycle.=0A>-az
============ =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Andres" <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I'm designing my system using a small AUX Battery and single Alt. I want to
charge the aux battery with a Schottkey diode. The AUX battery will power
the avionics during start to prevent brown out and can be used as clearance
delivery and/or a backup bus for the EFIS/430W GPS/Comm. Others I know of
who have done it this way also used a 50 ohm resistor in series with the
diode for reasons no one can really explain to me. The battery is a small
7ah sealed unit and I plan to charge it thru the diode and a 7.5 amp fuse.
Is there any reason to use a resistor in this configuration?
Thanks, Tim Andres
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Coil-Cord report |
| From: | Andy Hawes <andy717(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks for following up Bob,
I ended up contacting Dennis at autacusa
Very friendly folks and were kind enough to send out a sample before I
ordered. 7 conductor, 24 awg, 12 inch straight lead, 12 inch coil, 12 inch
straight and I believe a 3/4 inch diameter.
I'll follow up with everyone once it arrives.
I believe the entire assembly would be around 17.00 in case anyone needs
anything similar in the future --
Andy
On 10/20/10 2:53 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
>
>
> A few days ago I posted a note suggesting that the
> I-Go DC power adapters for portable electronics
> MIGHT have as many as 6 conductors in the product's
> coil-cord. This was based on an observed 6-pin
> connector on the end.
>
> The adapter I ordered of Ebay arrived to day and
> I can report that the cord has only 3 conductors.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
| From: | PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com> |
Hi
I am using a 12volt battery pack with built in inverter but my system is
only 12v,
http://www.northerntooluk.com/automotive-equipment/battery-chargers-and-cab
les/400w-emergency-power-source_2354E.html
But it shouldn=92t be too difficult to use two together for your 24v starts
,
it also come=92s with LED light and tyre pump,
Just a idea!
Ivor
On 20 October 2010 21:44, Ed Gilroy wrote:
> Here's a subject I have not seen discussed, as of yet, on the list or in
> Bob's Aero-Electric Connection:
>
> We would like to construct a 12 volt, 24 volt, and 110 volt ground power
> cart for powering electrical tools, etc. and for jumping our club airplan
es
> during the winters here in the wilds of Jersey. We have non-electrified
> outdoor tiedown spots.
>
> It would seem (2) 12 volt automotive batteries in series would be
> inexpensive and we would keep them charged via simple 12v solar chargers
> mounted on top of our storage shed. The 24V charging/inverting devices ar
e
> hundreds of dollars.
>
> So how might such a circuit look to "isolate" the batteries for 12 volt
> charging and occasional 120v inverter usage from the 12v side and still
> allow on-demand 24/28V "jumping"?
>
> My thinking says manually isolate the 24v series circuit until I want to
> "jump" and just throw a switch to go 24v with everything else physically
> disconnected. Or is there a more elegant solution? Idiot proof would be
> best, remember these are pilots !!!
>
> I have thought about this for some months but see no simple solution to
> provide this "isolation" function but then I am a BSCS, not an EE.
>
> Thanks... Ed
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
No matter how fool proof you make a dual voltage cart, it is only a matter of time
before someone uses the wrong voltage on the their plane. The damage caused
will be much greater than the cost of a second cart. So I suggest having two
carts, one for 12 volt and one for 24 volt. The carts can be clearly marked.
And it should be obvious that the cart with two batteries if for 24 volts.
Or how about just having one cart for 12 volts to take care of the majority
of aircraft. For the infrequent occasions when 24 volts are required, a spare
battery can be connected in series.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316573#316573
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
> Is there any reason to use a resistor in this configuration?
No, I see no reason to use a resistor. If someone else used a resistor, they should
be able to explain why. Just because some other builder wired their plane
wrong is no reason to do it the same way. There have been arguments on this
forum about what type of diode to use to minimize voltage drop. Using a resistor
does not minimize voltage drop.
If there is a reason for using a resistor, it would be interesting to know how
and why it was used.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316578#316578
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 08:34 PM 10/20/2010, you wrote:
>I'm designing my system using a small AUX Battery and single Alt. I
>want to charge the aux battery with a Schottkey diode. The AUX
>battery will power the avionics during start to prevent brown out
>and can be used as clearance delivery and/or a backup bus for the
>EFIS/430W GPS/Comm. Others I know of who have done it this way also
>used a 50 ohm resistor in series with the diode for reasons no one
>can really explain to me. The battery is a small 7ah sealed unit and
>I plan to charge it thru the diode and a 7.5 amp fuse. Is there any
>reason to use a resistor in this configuration?
No. In fact the ideal aux battery charging circuit
has a MINIMUM of voltage drop. The Shottky diode
offers the closest solid state solution with drops
averaging 0.3 to 0.5 volts. You can acquire these
devices packaged for user-friendly installations
from
https://matronics.com/aeroelectric/Catalog/AEC/9001/IM9001-700A.pdf
or
http://www.periheliondesign.com/powerschottkydiodesfiles/PowerSchottky%20Manual.pdf
or loose parts from electronics suppliers of various
sorts
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=MBRF40250TGOS-ND
Alternatively, you can achieve essentially zero-volts
drop for the charging circuit with incorporation of
an Aux Battery Management Module that closes a relay
between the two batteries only when the alternator is
running (bus rises above 13.0 volts).
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MGL Avionics - Clip on ferrites for radio noise suppression |
| From: | "AZFlyer" <millrML(at)aol.com> |
Does anybody have first hand experience with the MGL ferrite beads or clip on ferrites
for radio noise suppression?
They seem to be a good added insurance during installation for EMI suppression
for VHF frequencies... and not very expensive.
Thanks for your feedback,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316597#316597
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MGL Avionics - Clip on ferrites for radio noise |
suppression
At 01:08 PM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
>
>Does anybody have first hand experience with the MGL ferrite beads
>or clip on ferrites for radio noise suppression?
>
>They seem to be a good added insurance during installation for EMI
>suppression for VHF frequencies... and not very expensive.
Assuming that the components of any particular suite
of avionics were designed and tested for use aboard
aircraft, then sprinkling ferrite beads on the bundles
to fend of 'gremlins' is about as practical as sprinkling
Transorbs on all wires to ward off 'spikes'.
There is no such thing as a totally quiet system . . . nor
is there a device that is immune from all levels of electro-
magnetic pestilence. But in a century of crafting electro-
whizzies for airplanes, a very comfortable balance has been
achieved between LIMITING the about of garbage a potential
antagonist produces paired with designing potential victims
for certain degrees of robustness. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Philosophy/Whats_all_this_DO160_Stuff_Anyhow.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/avmaster.pdf
So assuming further that the combination of equipment you're
installing has a successful service history in other
airplanes when installed per instructions, then likelihood
of encountering a noise problem is low. If a noise problem
IS discovered, it's almost bound to have roots in (1) poor
installation practices or (2) improper design for either
the victim or antagonist.
RFI beads are the least likely cures for 99+ percent
of all noise problems. I've never found them useful
on an airplane. I've never heard or read of anyone
including such devices in the elegant solution for
a system installed aboard any type certificated aircraft.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Titsworth" <rtitsworth2(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location |
Bob,
I'm building a 28v Z-14 type dual-battery/dual-bus system with the voltage
regulators on the inside of the firewall and both 24v batteries in the tail
(for weight/balance considerations).
I have 1 LR3C regulator paired with the std Kelly alternator and 1 LS1A
regulator paired with a SD-20 alternator.
I'm curious, where is the "ideal" location to connect the voltage sense wire
(regulator terminal #3) to:
a) Routed back to the battery contactors (i.e. near the batteries)
b) Anywhere on the power bus(es) near the voltage regulators (i.e. inside of
the firewall power bus stud)
c) Through the firewall to the alternator
d) Doesn't really matter (option B for convenience)
I'm assuming I should also set-up/adjust the regulator/alternator output by
measuring the voltage back by the batteries.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
There are some golf cart batteries that work better for solar
charging and can supply a good amount of current for jumping or
running inverters. If I recall right cast was around $70 each if I
recall right. If your interested I will ping my friend for info on
them. There being used by folks living off the grid. A lot of folks
are moving to isolated areas in preparation for the coming melt down.
jerb
At 03:44 PM 10/20/2010, you wrote:
>Here's a subject I have not seen discussed, as of yet, on the list
>or in Bob's Aero-Electric Connection:
>
>We would like to construct a 12 volt, 24 volt, and 110 volt ground
>power cart for powering electrical tools, etc. and for jumping our
>club airplanes during the winters here in the wilds of Jersey. We
>have non-electrified outdoor tiedown spots.
>
>It would seem (2) 12 volt automotive batteries in series would be
>inexpensive and we would keep them charged via simple 12v solar
>chargers mounted on top of our storage shed. The 24V
>charging/inverting devices are hundreds of dollars.
>
>So how might such a circuit look to "isolate" the batteries for 12
>volt charging and occasional 120v inverter usage from the 12v side
>and still allow on-demand 24/28V "jumping"?
>
>My thinking says manually isolate the 24v series circuit until I
>want to "jump" and just throw a switch to go 24v with everything
>else physically disconnected. Or is there a more elegant
>solution? Idiot proof would be best, remember these are pilots !!!
>
>I have thought about this for some months but see no simple solution
>to provide this "isolation" function but then I am a BSCS, not an EE.
>
>Thanks... Ed
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frank3phyl(at)comcast.net |
I have a ROTAX 912S with GRT EIS model 2000. #3 EGT reading suddenly became erratic--going
from very low reading to normal with all sorts of readings in between
within a second or two. Now I'm getting a steady 25 degree C reading. Fastening
to exhaust is secure & haven't checked other connections, yet. Question:
what happens when the EGT thermocouple goes bad? Is this likely my problem or
more likely a loose connection in wiring? Other three EGT readings are good.
Thanks
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Good Morning Frank and Glenn,
The most common problem with probe reading is because the wires to the
probe are loose. You are supposed to place the toothed washer between the
two
ring terminals, not under the nut or screw, and it must be tightened
thoroughly.
I would check that fastener for proper application and maybe install a new
washer just in case.
The current flowing through that connection is very small and it needs to
be clean and tight.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 10/22/2010 10:02:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
longg(at)pjm.com writes:
Frank,
This happened to me recently when I was in there fixing something
unrelated and simply bent the wire back. I got all kinds of wacky reading
s. A
simple disturbance like bending the wire can affect the reading dramatica
lly.
They don=99t go bad that easily.
Glenn E. Long
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of frank3
phyl(at)comcast.net
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 9:51 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EGT Problem
I have a ROTAX 912S with GRT EIS model 2000. #3 EGT reading suddenly
became erratic--going from very low reading to normal with all sorts of
readings in between within a second or two. Now I'm getting a steady 25
degree C
reading. Fastening to exhaust is secure & haven't checked other
connections, yet. Question: what happens when the EGT thermocouple goes
bad? Is
this likely my problem or more likely a loose connection in wiring? Othe
r
three EGT readings are good.
Thanks
Frank
========================
===========
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
========================
===========
========================
===========
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location |
At 09:03 PM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
Bob,
I'm building a 28v Z-14 type dual-battery/dual-bus system with the voltage
regulators on the inside of the firewall and both 24v batteries in the tail
(for weight/balance considerations).
What kind of airplane are you building?
I have 1 LR3C regulator paired with the std Kelly alternator and 1 LS1A
regulator paired with a SD-20 alternator.
I'm curious, where is the "ideal" location to connect the voltage sense wire
(regulator terminal #3) to:
a) Routed back to the battery contactors (i.e. near the batteries)
b) Anywhere on the power bus(es) near the voltage regulators (i.e. inside of
the firewall power bus stud)
c) Through the firewall to the alternator
d) Doesn't really matter (option B for convenience)
The prefered v-sense points are as shown on Z-14
. . . or per manufacturer's instructions.
I'm assuming I should also set-up/adjust the regulator/alternator output by
measuring the voltage back by the batteries.
No, the voltage regulator "knows" what the voltage
is at its sense terminal. It can make no accurate
assumptions otherwise. Having said that, voltage drops
are, by system configuration, tolerably insignificant.
Fitting the LR/LS series regulators with sense leads
isolated from the field current supply lead went to
the idea of making voltage drops elsewhere still more
insignificant.
Recommend you wire per suggested diagrams and adjust
regulator as necessary to achieve 28.5 to 29.2 volts
at the bus.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 09:07 AM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
>
>
> > Is there any reason to use a resistor in this configuration?
>
>No, I see no reason to use a resistor. If someone else used a
>resistor, they should be able to explain why. Just because some
>other builder wired their plane wrong is no reason to do it the same
>way. There have been arguments on this forum about what type of
>diode to use to minimize voltage drop. Using a resistor does not
>minimize voltage drop.
> If there is a reason for using a resistor, it would be
> interesting to know how and why it was used.
An excellent point. A series resistor
in a small battery charging circuit is
indicated for one purpose only and under
a narrow set of circumstances.
If the small battery is at risk for
ever becoming totally discharged one might
improve on battery performance by limiting
the magnitude of recharge current when the
system comes back up at normal voltages.
The batteries I used in the recovery parachute
controllers for HBC
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Recovery_Parachute_Controller.jpg
were 1.2 a.h. devices intended to be charged by and
as back-up for ship's power. If ship's power was
brought on with completely discharged batteries,
the inrush to the little batteries would not be
conducive to a long service lift. Hence, the charge
loop included a 3 ohm resistor that would limit
initial current flows to about 8 amps. This also
prevented the initial recharge current to a dead
battery from popping the 10A breaker on the ship's
bus.
Of course, this would mean that getting the batteries
fully recharged would take longer. It also means that
the charging loop could not be depended upon for
power to run the system. That task was covered by
a separate circuit.
The decision for including such resistors depends
on an assessment (and preventative maintenance
program) for circumstances that might totally
discharge the battery . . . and what you would
do about it if such an event were discovered.
I built a battery maintainer into the parachute
controller intended to be plugged into AC mains
for a minimum of two hours within the week prior
to a flight where the parachute was to be armed.
Further, preflight testing by ground
crews before launch included a load test of the
batteries. Hence, probability of the resistor ever
being functionality tasked was very low.
Joe's assessment is quite correct that inclusion
of a resistor in the charge path of a battery demands
a full understanding of it's purpose and the effect
on system functionality under all anticipated
conditions. 99% of the time, you don't need them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Titsworth" <rtitsworth2(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location |
Bob Thanks,
Answers FYI...
Lancair ES-Turbo (in the Detroit area)
B&C circuit diagram shows sense wire(s) going to the breaker panel/bus,
which I can easily do, but that's 14 feet from the batteries via #2AWG
(apparently not a big deal).
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location
At 09:03 PM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
Bob,
I'm building a 28v Z-14 type dual-battery/dual-bus system with the voltage
regulators on the inside of the firewall and both 24v batteries in the tail
(for weight/balance considerations).
What kind of airplane are you building?
I have 1 LR3C regulator paired with the std Kelly alternator and 1 LS1A
regulator paired with a SD-20 alternator.
I'm curious, where is the "ideal" location to connect the voltage sense wire
(regulator terminal #3) to:
a) Routed back to the battery contactors (i.e. near the batteries)
b) Anywhere on the power bus(es) near the voltage regulators (i.e. inside of
the firewall power bus stud)
c) Through the firewall to the alternator
d) Doesn't really matter (option B for convenience)
The prefered v-sense points are as shown on Z-14
. . . or per manufacturer's instructions.
I'm assuming I should also set-up/adjust the regulator/alternator output by
measuring the voltage back by the batteries.
No, the voltage regulator "knows" what the voltage
is at its sense terminal. It can make no accurate
assumptions otherwise. Having said that, voltage drops
are, by system configuration, tolerably insignificant.
Fitting the LR/LS series regulators with sense leads
isolated from the field current supply lead went to
the idea of making voltage drops elsewhere still more
insignificant.
Recommend you wire per suggested diagrams and adjust
regulator as necessary to achieve 28.5 to 29.2 volts
at the bus.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912s wiring |
Good Morning,
I am currently trying to determine what wiring scheme to use for my Kitfox IV /
Rotax 912S. Kitfox has a simple schematic, however, I also went through an
Aeroelectric workshop and got a book. I am looking at the schematic in the back
of the book labeled Figure Z-16 (this was about 5 years ago). I like the plan
of using an essential buss so I would like to include it...I also want to use
the crowbar OV module. I have ordered one from Bob. My Questions:
1. Do I need to use the Alternator OV Disconnect Relay in conjunction with the
OV module? If so, I cannot find it on your website.
2. I am using a Grand Rapids EIS (engine Monitor) and it has a low voltage
allert so, would I be duplicating my needs by getting a low voltage monitor
module?
Thanks for your help,
Dan B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net |
Thanks Bob, Joe. The idea as I understood it was in regard to limiting the charge
current just as you surmised.
The Diode I'm using is a 9amp wire diode. I'll install it using your homeless components
methods from the site, no resistor.
Thanks,Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 22, 2010, at 9:13 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
>
> At 09:07 AM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Is there any reason to use a resistor in this configuration?
>>
>> No, I see no reason to use a resistor. If someone else used a resistor, they
should be able to explain why. Just because some other builder wired their
plane wrong is no reason to do it the same way. There have been arguments on
this forum about what type of diode to use to minimize voltage drop. Using a
resistor does not minimize voltage drop.
>> If there is a reason for using a resistor, it would be interesting to know
how and why it was used.
>
> An excellent point. A series resistor
> in a small battery charging circuit is
> indicated for one purpose only and under
> a narrow set of circumstances.
>
> If the small battery is at risk for
> ever becoming totally discharged one might
> improve on battery performance by limiting
> the magnitude of recharge current when the
> system comes back up at normal voltages.
> The batteries I used in the recovery parachute
> controllers for HBC
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Recovery_Parachute_Controller.jpg
>
> were 1.2 a.h. devices intended to be charged by and
> as back-up for ship's power. If ship's power was
> brought on with completely discharged batteries,
> the inrush to the little batteries would not be
> conducive to a long service lift. Hence, the charge
> loop included a 3 ohm resistor that would limit
> initial current flows to about 8 amps. This also
> prevented the initial recharge current to a dead
> battery from popping the 10A breaker on the ship's
> bus.
>
> Of course, this would mean that getting the batteries
> fully recharged would take longer. It also means that
> the charging loop could not be depended upon for
> power to run the system. That task was covered by
> a separate circuit.
>
> The decision for including such resistors depends
> on an assessment (and preventative maintenance
> program) for circumstances that might totally
> discharge the battery . . . and what you would
> do about it if such an event were discovered.
>
> I built a battery maintainer into the parachute
> controller intended to be plugged into AC mains
> for a minimum of two hours within the week prior
> to a flight where the parachute was to be armed.
>
> Further, preflight testing by ground
> crews before launch included a load test of the
> batteries. Hence, probability of the resistor ever
> being functionality tasked was very low.
>
> Joe's assessment is quite correct that inclusion
> of a resistor in the charge path of a battery demands
> a full understanding of it's purpose and the effect
> on system functionality under all anticipated
> conditions. 99% of the time, you don't need them.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Voltage Regulator Sense Wire Location |
>
>B&C circuit diagram shows sense wire(s) going to the breaker
>panel/bus, which I can easily do, but that's 14 feet from the
>batteries via #2AWG (apparently not a big deal).
Correct
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 11:49 AM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob, Joe. The idea as I understood it was in regard to
>limiting the charge current just as you surmised.
>The Diode I'm using is a 9amp wire diode. I'll install it using your
>homeless components methods from the site, no resistor.
What's the capacity of your aux battery?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912s wiring |
At 11:16 AM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Good Morning,
>I am currently trying to determine what wiring scheme to use for my
>Kitfox IV /
>Rotax 912S. Kitfox has a simple schematic, however, I also went through an
>Aeroelectric workshop and got a book. I am looking at the schematic
>in the back
>of the book labeled Figure Z-16 (this was about 5 years ago).
You can keep your book updated for no extra
charge from website downloads at
Http://aeroelectric.com
this is especially true of the Z-figures which
can be acquired individually at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/
> I like the plan
>of using an essential buss so I would like to include it...I also want to use
>the crowbar OV module. I have ordered one from Bob. My Questions:
>1. Do I need to use the Alternator OV Disconnect Relay in
>conjunction with the
>OV module? If so, I cannot find it on your website.
The relay is necessary. You can get the 704 from
http://bandc.biz. This part from RadioShack is also
suitable
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 62477
>2. I am using a Grand Rapids EIS (engine Monitor) and it has a low voltage
>allert so, would I be duplicating my needs by getting a low voltage monitor
>module?
Yes. You don't need two . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net |
7ah
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:48 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
>
> At 11:49 AM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Bob, Joe. The idea as I understood it was in regard to limiting the
charge current just as you surmised.
>> The Diode I'm using is a 9amp wire diode. I'll install it using your homeless
components methods from the site, no resistor.
>
> What's the capacity of your aux battery?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912s wiring |
Thanks Bob, Just what I needed!
Dan
----- Original Message ----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 2:52:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912s wiring
At 11:16 AM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
>
>
> Good Morning,
> I am currently trying to determine what wiring scheme to use for my Kitfox IV
/
> Rotax 912S. Kitfox has a simple schematic, however, I also went through an
> Aeroelectric workshop and got a book. I am looking at the schematic in the
back
> of the book labeled Figure Z-16 (this was about 5 years ago).
You can keep your book updated for no extra
charge from website downloads at
Http://aeroelectric.com
this is especially true of the Z-figures which
can be acquired individually at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/
> I like the plan
> of using an essential buss so I would like to include it...I also want to use
> the crowbar OV module. I have ordered one from Bob. My Questions:
> 1. Do I need to use the Alternator OV Disconnect Relay in conjunction with the
> OV module? If so, I cannot find it on your website.
The relay is necessary. You can get the 704 from
http://bandc.biz. This part from RadioShack is also
suitable
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 62477
> 2. I am using a Grand Rapids EIS (engine Monitor) and it has a low voltage
> allert so, would I be duplicating my needs by getting a low voltage monitor
> module?
Yes. You don't need two . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Bob,
Any word on when the 9024 module will be available? I'm a couple of weeks from
engine start and I've planned on 9024 OVP for the stby alt and ground power jack.
Thanks,
JOhn
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316765#316765
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Right Angle BNC Fittings |
Hi all,
I am wiring in my com and transponder antennae. The wiring would be a
little more elegant with a right angle connector on the antenna. B&C markets
a right angle fitting:
_http://www.bandc.biz/bncrightangleadapter.aspx_
(http://www.bandc.biz/bncrightangleadapter.aspx)
That runs about six bucks. Aircraft Spruce has a right angle fitting
_http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/bncrfconnector.php_
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/bncrfconnector.php)
that runs about $46.
The question is, is there a significant dB loss using B&C's right angle
adaptor as opposed to the right angle fitting from ACS?
Thanks
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
What's the capacity of your aux battery?
At 06:08 PM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
AeroElectric-List message posted by: tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net
7ah
Tim
Okay, it's not one of those "tiny" things and
will probably be okay with the simple diode in
the charging feeder.
CAUTION
Any builders on the List who are relatively new
or perhaps were not paying close attention to battery
discussions in past years, I advise a review of the
following publications:
Chapters 2 and 17 of the AeroElectric Connection
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/neveragain/neveragain.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/neveragain/neveragain_1.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/neveragain/neveragain_2.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battery.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rg_bat.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Multiple_Battery_Myths_A.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bat_iso2.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Deltran_Odyssey_Floobydust.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/WestMountain_CBAII.pdf
Bottom line is that if you are carrying ANY
number of battery(ies) on board for the purpose
of alternator failure mitigation, then
you need to SIZE the task - how much time to do
you EXPECT any battery to perform as back-up power?
Then you need A PLAN to make sure those requirements
will be met.
This is especially important for so-called AUX
batteries that are not NORMALLY expected to
do anything. If the battery doesn't crank the
engine . . . nor is it occasionally used to
supply some noteworthy run-time for ground maintenance,
then HOW DO YOU KNOW the thing is even useful?
The heavy iron guys periodically capacity test
all ship's batteries and replace them when they
fall below established limits for meeting
s/b power needs.
With out A PLAN, it's a high order risk that
the battery won't be there for you at such
time you DO need it.
If no plan, then depending on an AUX battery (or
even the ship's main battery) to bail you
out is problematic. You're may be investing
$acquisition$, space, weight and fuel to wrap
yourself in a lead-acid security blanket.
Cap meters like . . .
http://www.westmountainradio.com/content.php?page=cba
are excellent pieces of test equipment that will load
the battery exactly like you'll expect to load it
during S/B service in your airplane. If not this
class of device, then
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Poor_Man%27s_Cap_Tester.pdf
or just put a new battery in every two years. But
have requirements assured by a plan.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Dabney <jdabney(at)rice.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
Michael,
I've had good results with the right angle connectors from Stein:
http://www.steinair.com/connectors.htm
Jim Dabney
On 10/23/2010 12:06 PM, MLWynn(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am wiring in my com and transponder antennae. The wiring would be a
> little more elegant with a right angle connector on the antenna. B&C
> markets a right angle fitting:
> http://www.bandc.biz/bncrightangleadapter.aspx
> That runs about six bucks. Aircraft Spruce has a right angle fitting
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/bncrfconnector.php
> that runs about $46.
> The question is, is there a significant dB loss using B&C's right
> angle adaptor as opposed to the right angle fitting from ACS?
> Thanks
>
> Michael Wynn
> RV 8 Finishing
> San Ramon, CA
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Right Angle BNC Fittings |
I "split the difference" with SteinAir for $17.50: "3 Piece 90 Degree Right
Angle Male BNC Crimp Connector for RG-400 & RG-58 Coax Cable. Uses the same
crimper as standard BNC's."
Note that it is a crimp connector whereas B&C's is female to male right
angle. You will have one extra BNC connector to complete the connection.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Cowling
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MLWynn(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 12:06 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Right Angle BNC Fittings
Hi all,
I am wiring in my com and transponder antennae. The wiring would be a
little more elegant with a right angle connector on the antenna. B&C
markets a right angle fitting:
http://www.bandc.biz/bncrightangleadapter.aspx
That runs about six bucks. Aircraft Spruce has a right angle fitting
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/bncrfconnector.php
that runs about $46.
The question is, is there a significant dB loss using B&C's right angle
adaptor as opposed to the right angle fitting from ACS?
Thanks
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
I hope this little diagram I just drew will help you. Just be sure to close
the SPDT switch in the 12V position before charging. The drawing is for two
sets of 12 V batteries wired into two sets of 12V. For this set up I would
try to get batteries of matching amperage. You can add as many batteries as
you want but I was thinking that four automotive storage batteries would be
heavy enough for carting around.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Gilroy
Sent: October 20, 2010 6:14 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
Here's a subject I have not seen discussed, as of yet, on the list or in
Bob's Aero-Electric Connection:
We would like to construct a 12 volt, 24 volt, and 110 volt ground power
cart for powering electrical tools, etc. and for jumping our club airplanes
during the winters here in the wilds of Jersey. We have non-electrified
outdoor tiedown spots.
It would seem (2) 12 volt automotive batteries in series would be
inexpensive and we would keep them charged via simple 12v solar chargers
mounted on top of our storage shed. The 24V charging/inverting devices are
hundreds of dollars.
So how might such a circuit look to "isolate" the batteries for 12 volt
charging and occasional 120v inverter usage from the 12v side and still
allow on-demand 24/28V "jumping"?
My thinking says manually isolate the 24v series circuit until I want to
"jump" and just throw a switch to go 24v with everything else physically
disconnected. Or is there a more elegant solution? Idiot proof would be
best, remember these are pilots !!!
I have thought about this for some months but see no simple solution to
provide this "isolation" function but then I am a BSCS, not an EE.
Thanks... Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
Here's a subject I have not seen discussed, as of yet, on the list or
in Bob's Aero-Electric Connection:
We would like to construct a 12 volt, 24 volt, and 110 volt ground
power cart for powering electrical tools, etc. and for jumping our
club airplanes during the winters here in the wilds of Jersey. We
have non-electrified outdoor tiedown spots.
It would seem (2) 12 volt automotive batteries in series would be
inexpensive and we would keep them charged via simple 12v solar
chargers mounted on top of our storage shed. The 24V
charging/inverting devices are hundreds of dollars.
So how might such a circuit look to "isolate" the batteries for 12
volt charging and occasional 120v inverter usage from the 12v side
and still allow on-demand 24/28V "jumping"?
My thinking says manually isolate the 24v series circuit until I want
to "jump" and just throw a switch to go 24v with everything else
physically disconnected. Or is there a more elegant solution? Idiot
proof would be best, remember these are pilots !!!
I have thought about this for some months but see no simple solution
to provide this "isolation" function but then I am a BSCS, not an EE.
Thanks... Ed
I've had occasion to observer or participate in the
fabrication of several battery carts over the years.
Functionally, it's not a big deal except for that
pesky DPDT switch that has to carry many hundreds
of amps. You can synthesize the switch from an array
of contactors but there is risk for shorting out one
of the batteries if a contactor sticks.
The simplest and least risky 12/24 switching involved
changing some jumpers around on a sort of "stud panel"
where the jumpers were brass bars held on threaded
studs with large hand operated "nuts" . . . but
the loose bars and exposed studs offered some slight
risk of shorts . . . about he same degree of risk
as for swinging wrenches on car battery (+) terminals.
I've been pondering a design for a jumper bar assembly
where the bars are sandwiched between two sheets
of insulating material. The spacing of the studs
is such that the array cannot be installed in any
way except one that produces the 12/24 configuration.
I'll publish the drawings in a day or so. Had them
about done tonight but had to halt operations
long enough to restore a c-drive.
Bob . . .
I've been pondering a variation on that idea
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Bob,
A thought on the battery cart. I have a tig welder that has jumpers for
various settings that used welding cable with male ends on it as
jumpers. The females are mounted in a panel and the only time there
might be an exposed connector would be if someone left a jumper end
dangling.
FWIW
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 10/23/2010 11:50 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> *Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
>
> Here's a subject I have not seen discussed, as of yet, on the list or in
> Bob's Aero-Electric Connection:
>
> We would like to construct a 12 volt, 24 volt, and 110 volt ground power
> cart for powering electrical tools, etc. and for jumping our club
> airplanes during the winters here in the wilds of Jersey. We have
> non-electrified outdoor tiedown spots.
>
> It would seem (2) 12 volt automotive batteries in series would be
> inexpensive and we would keep them charged via simple 12v solar chargers
> mounted on top of our storage shed. The 24V charging/inverting devices
> are hundreds of dollars.
>
> So how might such a circuit look to "isolate" the batteries for 12 volt
> charging and occasional 120v inverter usage from the 12v side and still
> allow on-demand 24/28V "jumping"?
>
> My thinking says manually isolate the 24v series circuit until I want to
> "jump" and just throw a switch to go 24v with everything else physically
> disconnected. Or is there a more elegant solution? Idiot proof would be
> best, remember these are pilots !!!
>
> I have thought about this for some months but see no simple solution to
> provide this "isolation" function but then I am a BSCS, not an EE.
>
> Thanks... Ed
>
> * I've had occasion to observer or participate in the
> fabrication of several battery carts over the years.
> Functionally, it's not a big deal except for that
> pesky DPDT switch that has to carry many hundreds
> of amps. You can synthesize the switch from an array
> of contactors but there is risk for shorting out one
> of the batteries if a contactor sticks.
>
> The simplest and least risky 12/24 switching involved
> changing some jumpers around on a sort of "stud panel"
> where the jumpers were brass bars held on threaded
> studs with large hand operated "nuts" . . . but
> the loose bars and exposed studs offered some slight
> risk of shorts . . . about he same degree of risk
> as for swinging wrenches on car battery (+) terminals.
>
> I've been pondering a design for a jumper bar assembly
> where the bars are sandwiched between two sheets
> of insulating material. The spacing of the studs
> is such that the array cannot be installed in any
> way except one that produces the 12/24 configuration.
>
> I'll publish the drawings in a day or so. Had them
> about done tonight but had to halt operations
> long enough to restore a c-drive.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> I've been pondering a variation on that idea
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
At 12:18 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>A thought on the battery cart. I have a tig welder that has jumpers
>for various settings that used welding cable with male ends on it as
>jumpers. The females are mounted in a panel and the only time there
>might be an exposed connector would be if someone left a jumper end dangling.
Yeah . . . I considered that kind of device. They're pretty
pricey. Take a look at the hammer-n-tongs approach and see
what you think.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
| From: | "Bill & Sue" <Billandsue(at)billbell.co.uk> |
Michael,
In a word: No.
Using a right angle adapter (or a right angle plug) won't make any detectable
difference, so use whatever is convenient.
The ACS price seems rather alarming -your local electronics supplier should be
able to come up with something for a lot less. Here in the UK my local supplier
lists suitable adaptors and plugs from (the equivalent of) a couple of dollars...
Even top price ones like this:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=7122920&cm_vc=prev_uk
are still a lot less, which is quite surprising as I often order from ACS as the
price and availability is vastly better than I can get in the UK even with the
transport and tax included.
One thing to watch; whether you choose a a new plug or an adapter make sure you
get the 50 ohm version. RF standard is 50 Ohm, but Video uses an almost identical
75 ohm connector with a slightly smaller inner pin.
Hope that helps
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316842#316842
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
HI All-
A couple observations-
You've got me thinking about a gadget for the chapter. The first thing
that comes to mind is to substitute cheap AGM batteries from Batteries Plus
(or wherever) for the car batteries. They'd be cheaper, lighter, and dump
current better than the plain flooded cell batteries.
This leads to the thought of using cast off batteries from Bob's
one-each-year-or-two battery replacement scheme, especially since that's
what I'll be doing once I get flying. If one made a cart that wasn't
physically tailored to a specific type of battery, they could use whatever
batteries were surplussed on the field.
The last item is that another group I'm part of was given a 'cast off'
motorized scooter chair. A ground power cord was added, and viola! A
self-powered ground power cart that has enough energy to run the avionics
all day and yet crank a couple of really large engines repeatedly without
showing any signs of stress. As a side bennie, the scooter came with a
tailored smart charger that can be left on continuously, making charge
state mx trivial. The scooter has two 12v AGM's, so whatever voltage
switching arrangement were derived could be applied here as well. Given
all the ads on the tube for 'free' mobility scooters, it seems like there
might be a significant secondary market for the things.
FWIW-
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
Good Morning Bill,
That which you have shown is, as you say, an adapter. The higher priced
version is a right angle connector, not an adapter.
The adapter has a slightly higher, though still minimal, loss involved. It
means that there are two connections involved in lieu of one and the right
angle connector generally has a slightly smaller profile than does a
connector and an adapter.
Make any sense at all?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 10/24/2010 5:26:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Billandsue(at)billbell.co.uk writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill & Sue"
Michael,
In a word: No.
Using a right angle adapter (or a right angle plug) won't make any
detectable difference, so use whatever is convenient.
The ACS price seems rather alarming -your local electronics supplier
should be able to come up with something for a lot less. Here in the UK my local
supplier lists suitable adaptors and plugs from (the equivalent of) a
couple of dollars...
Even top price ones like this:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct
&R=7122920&cm_vc=prev_uk
are still a lot less, which is quite surprising as I often order from ACS
as the price and availability is vastly better than I can get in the UK
even with the transport and tax included.
One thing to watch; whether you choose a a new plug or an adapter make
sure you get the 50 ohm version. RF standard is 50 Ohm, but Video uses an
almost identical 75 ohm connector with a slightly smaller inner pin.
Hope that helps
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
Thanks for everyone's input on this. I cruising the aeroelectric site, I
found that Bob N has an instruction sheet on using adaptors to make a
permanent right angle connector:
_http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html_
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html)
I can't imagine he would post this unless it was a perfectly viable
approach to the problem.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
List members=2C
I'm in the process of wiring all the instruments and electrical goodies f
or my plane.
I have two areas where all the electrical items are located=3B an overhead
panel & my
front panel/console.
The overhead panel has the ignition switch=2C various light switches=2C a
ll circuit breakers=2C
etc. (the power supply center) The front panel/console has the Icom A200
com radio=2C
King transponder=2C Dynon D10A=2C Garmin 296=2C airspeed and vert. climb=2C
and various engine
gages.
Here's what I'm after=3B what would be a standard=2C recommended male/fe
male plug
combination to send the electrical power from the overhead panel to the fro
nt panel?
I have considered the DB9 plug=2C but I don't know if it could handle the
5 amps (max)
of the Icom or the King KT76. I don't think any of the other devices would
be a problem
for the DB9=2C it's just the Icom A200 and the transponder I'm concerned wi
th.
I looked on Digi-key=2C but it is difficult to know where to begin. With
40=2C000 plugs=2C I can't see
the forest for the trees.
I think the best would be a robust=2C say...12 pin=2C locking Molex m/f p
lug and recepticle=2C
typically like a standard automotive wiring harness connection. Something
like this=2C but in
wiring harness style=3B
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1684-N
D
Thanks for any guidance=2C Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
At 10:25 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>Thanks for everyone's input on this. I cruising the aeroelectric
>site, I found that Bob N has an instruction sheet on using adaptors
>to make a permanent right angle connector:
>
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html
>
>I can't imagine he would post this unless it was a perfectly viable
>approach to the problem.
It's one approach that tolerates an extra joint in the
system . . . a low risk decision. It also exploits
ready availability of commercial off the shelf parts.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
At 08:11 AM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>HI All-
>
>A couple observations-
>
>You've got me thinking about a gadget for the chapter. The first thing
>that comes to mind is to substitute cheap AGM batteries from Batteries Plus
>(or wherever) for the car batteries. They'd be cheaper, lighter, and dump
>current better than the plain flooded cell batteries.
>
>This leads to the thought of using cast off batteries from Bob's
>one-each-year-or-two battery replacement scheme, especially since that's
>what I'll be doing once I get flying. If one made a cart that wasn't
>physically tailored to a specific type of battery, they could use whatever
>batteries were surplussed on the field.
The last battery cart project I observed was more of a
"battery box" approach. The builder hand two-wheel hand-
trucks and decided not to dedicate a set of wheels and
handle to the ground start battery. He built hand-truck
friendly box that held two batteries and a Schumacher automatic
charger. His project was 24 v only so didn't need a
battery 'switch'. I finished development of the geometry
for a 6.5 x 7.5 inch assembly that could be made of
1/8" tempered Masonite, Lexan, or other hard/durable material.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/7000_Battery_Cart_Switch.pdf
This design is based on hand-knobs I have on hand
with 1/2-13 threaded inserts. The battery leads are
brought to 1/2-13 x 2" brass bolts and associated
hardware in a rectangular pattern. The spacings have
been adjusted so that a sandwich of 1/8" masonite
sheets, 1/8" x 1" aluminum bars can be placed over
the studs in only two positions. The exposed
ends of the bars are rather well guarded against
accidental shorts on the studs while changing voltage
setting. When the hand-knobs are in place, all exposed
"hot" metal is pretty well covered and/or recessed.
I'm headed to Wichita for a few days but I'll work
up a schematic for a system with a charger and
AC inverter built in. Charging with solar cells
is problematic unless one is considering some
really hefty devices like . . .
http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-90599.html
along with electronics suitable for SVLA battery
maintenance. If folks are interested in this
design, I can supply the hand-knobs and bus
bars. I have access to a digital mill so it wouldn't
be hard to build a precision drill fixture that
precisely located the holes. Perhaps I could supply
a "kit" of knobs, pilot drilled bus bar material,
and a stack of 1/8" sheets also pilot drilled.
I think you can get the brass hardware from Lowes/
HomeDepot style big-box stores.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical plug |
>
>
> I think the best would be a robust, say...12 pin, locking Molex
> m/f plug and recepticle,
>typically like a standard automotive wiring harness
>connection. Something like this, but in
>wiring harness style;
>
><http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1684-ND>http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1684-ND
>
Those would work but they ARE sheet metal pins. You can
parallel pins in a D-sub to share loads. If the vast majority
of your circuits are d-sub friendly, then perhaps you'd need
only to beef up a few pathways in the connector. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/Paralleled_D-Sub_Pins.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
Bob=2C
Thanks for the help. Your suggestion of sharing pins is a good one. I h
adn't considered
that. Will a DB9 plug/receptacle handle 3A per pin? If so=2C I think this
could be a simple
answer=2C because I only need to double up just a couple of pins.
Thanks=2C Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
At 02:29 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>A very functional approach. Certainly the other end of the $time$
>combination scale from my suggestion.
>
>My preference is to trade more initial $time$ on the front end for
>crawling around on the grass in the cold dark mornings of January
>looking for a part my clumsy gloved hand has dropped.
>
>That said, if you could avoid any loose parts I think it would be an
>improvement. One thought I had was to combine 2 of the jumper bars
>into a V with one leg the length to reach to make the 24 volt
>connection and the other the length to reach for the 12 volt. With
>the angle between them such that one connection must be broken
>before the other could be made. As I was writing I had another
>thought. Just use one bar with 2 holes, one to make the 12 and the
>other to make the 24. This would reduce the number of loose parts to
>the 2 knobs on the studs the jumper moves between, assuming the 3rd
>knob is only loosened to allow the jumper to swing. Another
>evolution occurred as I was writing the above. The single bar could
>have U shaped cutouts, rather than holes, that would allow the
>jumper to slide under the appropriate knob and eliminate the need
>for the knobs to become loose parts.
check your configurations for failure modes and
potential for erroneous connections. my goal was
to make it impossible to install a jumper in the
wrong location that might short a battery.
Hence the non-square pattern for the 4 posts and
the single assembly of jumpers that guards
most of the bare surfaces.
As long as you can see the labels, then any way
you install it will produce either 12 or 24 v with
no gottchas. If you flip it over, the 12v still works
but the 24 volt would be inert.
I like putting the bars down over studs with a contiguous
hole as opposed to a slot. More surface area in contact
with the stud.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
> Will a DB9 plug/receptacle handle 3A per pin?
Bob=2C
To answer my own question=2C I did some research on DB15 plugs=2C and yes
=2C they
appear to be able 5A per pin=2C according to one manufacturer.
I think I'll go with the DB9=2C and combine two pins for the Icom and the
King transponder.
The rest of the pins should be just fine!
Thanks again=2C Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 05:52 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
> > Will a DB9 plug/receptacle handle 3A per pin?
>
>Bob,
>
> To answer my own question, I did some research on DB15 plugs, and yes, they
>appear to be able 5A per pin, according to one manufacturer.
>
> I think I'll go with the DB9, and combine two pins for the Icom
> and the King transponder.
>The rest of the pins should be just fine!
Do grounds go through this connector too?
They need to be as robust as the power
feeder pins. Also, it's common practice with
any new design to have spare pins in any
connector to allow for future expansion
without having to re-wire a connector.
We used to shoot for 15 to 20% spares.
Suggest you consider a larger connector
especially if you need to add grounds too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
At 03:30 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>
>I'll take another look at it and do a drawing -IF- it seems viable
>after further analysis.
I'll look forward to it. I sort of cheated with
the AutoCAD for laying out and testing the architecture
but we used to do it with dividers, protractor, compass
and scissors to cut out "paper parts" for fit checks.
Great fun and worthwhile gray matter exercise too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Endurance Buss Diode - Heat Sink Question |
| From: | "jvolkober" <jvolkober(at)comcast.net> |
I am using the Z-13 architecture. This calls for a diode between the main bus
and the endurance bus. I am planning on keeping the endurance bus at less than
8 amps. B&C offers a diodes with heat sinks that appear to fit this use.
One on a heat sink that is about 1" by 3", the other on a heat sink twice that
size. The first for up to 8 watts, I believe and the second for up to 15 watts.
Is the small sufficient for my use?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316924#316924
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
> I think I'll go with the DB9=2C and combine two pins for the Icom and th
e King transponder.
> Do grounds go through this connector too?
> They need to be as robust as the power
> feeder pins. Also=2C it's common practice with
>any new design to have spare pins in any
>connector to allow for future expansion
>without having to re-wire a connector.
>We used to shoot for 15 to 20% spares.
>Suggest you consider a larger connector
>especially if you need to add grounds too.
> Bob . . .
Hi Bob=2C
Yes=2C I plan on running the ground thru the DB connector. I was going t
o allocate
four pins to supply the ground connection for the front panel. My plan is
the main ground
wire be #12AWG=2C leading down to the 4-way split to the (4ea) #16AWG solde
red to each pin.
The recepticle connector then gets the same treatment for ground=2C i.e.(4e
a) #16AWG back to
#12AWG=2C with the ground wire terminating at a buss bar.
Since I mentioned DB9 earlier=2C I just left that plug in the conversatio
n. The fact is=2C after
counting and leaving a couple of pins as spares=2C I am actually getting a
DB15.
The pin allocation was planned to be this=3B
After using two pins each for the Icom and the King transponder=2C one each
for the Dynon and
Garmin 296=2C and four for the ground=2C this makes ten pins so far. Using
one pin to light the
instrument lights=2C and one for some super tiny current drawers (like the
Dynon alarm circuit
you drew for me)=2C I'm left with at least three spares. I could even incl
ude the Dynon alarm
power in with the instrument lights=2C and be left with 4 extra pins.
Thanks for your help=2C Bob.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Hi All-
You know, the thing that would make the 12 - 24v battery cart zippy would be a
DPDT knife switch cabable of handling cranking currents. It would handle the
switching function elegantly, and if mounted in a recess or under a cover would
be pretty darn safe from accidental shorts. I've not looked yet, but I wonder
if such a thing is still available, especially in some sort of surpluss house...
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
| From: | "Bill & Sue" <Billandsue(at)billbell.co.uk> |
Bob,
Yes it makes sense and of course you are quite right about the extra loss, but
I challenge anyone to measure it at the frequencies concerned, let alone tell
any difference in practice (we are talking about the equivalent of perhaps a few
inches of cable).
Right angle connectors are harder to come by, but over here RS sell them for less
than the price of the adapters.
The adapters are a little more bulky, but the most serious downside is the weight
which will raise your stall speed by around 0.001%!
Cheers
Bill
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> Good Morning Bill,
>
> That which you have shown is, as you say, an adapter. The higher priced version
is a right angle connector, not an adapter.
>
> The adapter has a slightly higher, though still minimal, loss involved. It
means that there are two connections involved in lieu of one and the right angle
connector generally has a slightly smaller profile than does a connector
and an adapter.
>
> Make any sense at all?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
>
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316975#316975
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
> You know=2C the thing that would make the 12 - 24v battery cart zippy wou
ld be a DPDT knife switch
>I wonder if such a thing is still available=2C especially in some sort of
surpluss house...
>
> Glen Matejcek
Glen=2C
You mean like this=3B
http://www.wirthco.com/12/24-volt-heavy-equipment-switch-p-66-l-en.html
Although it isn't configured exactly yet=2C it wouldn't be but a very min
or mod to make it so.
I think you are right. This would be a very simple solution!!
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
> You know=2C the thing that would make the 12 - 24v battery cart zippy wou
ld be a DPDT knife switch
> Glen Matejcek
Glen=2C
On second examination=2C yes the switch IS configured correctly right out
of the box. I see where they
make the second set of contacts to go through the handle itself!! Clever!
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
| From: | Ed Gilroy <egilroy(at)gmail.com> |
That was exactly the kind of device I had mused about in my original request
to this group. It doesn't quite qualify as "idiot-proof", but comes pretty
close.
Ed
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Mike Welch wrote:
>
> > You know, the thing that would make the 12 - 24v battery cart zippy would
> be a DPDT knife switch
> >I wonder if such a thing is still available, especially in some sort of
> surpluss house...
> >
> > Glen Matejcek
>
>
> Glen,
>
> You mean like this;
>
> http://www.wirthco.com/12/24-volt-heavy-equipment-switch-p-66-l-en.html
>
> Although it isn't configured exactly yet, it wouldn't be but a very minor
> mod to make it so.
>
> I think you are right. This would be a very simple solution!!
>
> Mike Welch
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Ed=2C
I'd think that someone who can't get the battery boost-start correct=2C
or otherwise screws
up this DPDT blade set-up might not have any business working near a plane.
Just a thought....
Mike
Date: Mon=2C 25 Oct 2010 12:37:38 -0400
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
From: egilroy(at)gmail.com
That was exactly the kind of device I had mused about in my original reques
t to this group. It doesn't quite qualify as "idiot-proof"=2C but comes pre
tty close.
Ed
On Mon=2C Oct 25=2C 2010 at 11:22 AM=2C Mike Welch wrote:
> You know=2C the thing that would make the 12 - 24v battery cart zippy wou
ld be a DPDT knife switch
>I wonder if such a thing is still available=2C especially in some sort of
surpluss house...
>
> Glen Matejcek
Glen=2C
You mean like this=3B
http://www.wirthco.com/12/24-volt-heavy-equipment-switch-p-66-l-en.html
Although it isn't configured exactly yet=2C it wouldn't be but a very min
or mod to make it so.
I think you are right. This would be a very simple solution!!
Mike Welch
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Good Afternoon Mike,
You may well be correct, but there are many of us who have been working on
airplanes for sixty years or more who do still make mistakes. Last I heard,
to err is human
I'll take all the help I can get.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 10/25/2010 12:11:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com writes:
Ed,
I'd think that someone who can't get the battery boost-start correct, or
otherwise screws
up this DPDT blade set-up might not have any business working near a
plane. Just a thought....
Mike
____________________________________
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 12:37:38 -0400
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
From: egilroy(at)gmail.com
That was exactly the kind of device I had mused about in my original
request to this group. It doesn't quite qualify as "idiot-proof", but comes
pretty close.
Ed
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Mike Welch <_mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com_
(mailto:mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com) > wrote:
> You know, the thing that would make the 12 - 24v battery cart zippy
would be a DPDT knife switch
>I wonder if such a thing is still available, especially in some sort of
surpluss house...
>
> Glen Matejcek
Glen,
You mean like this;
_http://www.wirthco.com/12/24-volt-heavy-equipment-switch-p-66-l-en.html_
(http://www.wirthco.com/12/24-volt-heavy-equipment-switch-p-66-l-en.html)
Although it isn't configured exactly yet, it wouldn't be but a very minor
mod to make it so.
I think you are right. This would be a very simple solution!!
Mike Welch
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
this is just to see if the mail will go through
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
& Sue
Sent: October 25, 2010 12:43 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings
Bob,
Yes it makes sense and of course you are quite right about the extra loss,
but I challenge anyone to measure it at the frequencies concerned, let alone
tell any difference in practice (we are talking about the equivalent of
perhaps a few inches of cable).
Right angle connectors are harder to come by, but over here RS sell them for
less than the price of the adapters.
The adapters are a little more bulky, but the most serious downside is the
weight which will raise your stall speed by around 0.001%!
Cheers
Bill
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> Good Morning Bill,
>
> That which you have shown is, as you say, an adapter. The higher priced
version is a right angle connector, not an adapter.
>
> The adapter has a slightly higher, though still minimal, loss involved.
It means that there are two connections involved in lieu of one and the
right angle connector generally has a slightly smaller profile than does a
connector and an adapter.
>
> Make any sense at all?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
>
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316975#316975
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
I have been making several posts on the thread Ground power/Tie down cart.
Apparently all my posts are being refused. This one is being sent through a
link on matronics page not via the Reply button.
Noel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com> |
Got it
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 7:51 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Test
I have been making several posts on the thread Ground power/Tie down
cart. Apparently all my posts are being refused. This one is being
sent through a link on matronics page not via the Reply button.
Noel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Capacitance to Voltage Converter |
Question: Can any of you recommend a solution for converting an EI
P-300C capacitance probe output, "something squared" to 0-5 volts? I am
installing an EI 4ft sender along with the Dynon D180. I've seen a lot
of crazy microprocessor chips and such, but I need something I can
actually use. The Dynon option is not an option because it has a BNC
adapter on one end which is only useful if you have an RV with the
capacitance plate sender unit. My sender has 3 wires coming out, that's
it.
Thanks,
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Ilg <doug.ilg(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance to Voltage Converter |
I'd suggest giving EI a call. They have always been very helpful, when I've
called with questions.
Doug Ilg
Grumman Tiger N74818, College Park Airport (KCGS), Maryland
Challenger II LSS LW (N641LG reserved) - kit underway at Laurel Suburban (W18)
----- Original Message ----
> From: "longg(at)pjm.com" <longg(at)pjm.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 9:49:57 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Capacitance to Voltage Converter
>
>
> Question: Can any of you recommend a solution for converting an EI
> P-300C capacitance probe output, "something squared" to 0-5 volts?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Capacitance to Voltage Converter |
Thanks Doug,
Another reader provided a great option. I just talked to the proprietor
from SaintAero LLC saintaero(at)charter.net 817.578.7339. He's got the
solution in a box. The check is in the mail. $100.00
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
Ilg
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Capacitance to Voltage Converter
I'd suggest giving EI a call. They have always been very helpful, when
I've
called with questions.
Doug Ilg
Grumman Tiger N74818, College Park Airport (KCGS), Maryland
Challenger II LSS LW (N641LG reserved) - kit underway at Laurel Suburban
(W18)
----- Original Message ----
> From: "longg(at)pjm.com" <longg(at)pjm.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 9:49:57 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Capacitance to Voltage Converter
>
>
> Question: Can any of you recommend a solution for converting an EI
> P-300C capacitance probe output, "something squared" to 0-5 volts?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
For what it's worth, here's one data point for you.
I used a 90 degree BNC adapter between my transponder antenna and the coax
and the transponder would not work. It was an adapter, not a connector.
I switched to a straight coax to antenna connection (just barely had enough
room) and it worked fine.
I have since sworn off ever again using a 90 degree BNC adapter.
Stan Sutterfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Ballin <dballin(at)gmail.com> |
Not to beat a dead horse, but KCI (parts for Lancair) has true right
angle connectors from amp for about $5
http://www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=31-335-RFX&ReturnUrl=Categories.aspx?Category=c1df7b9d-24c4-41d0-90ec-76fb691e4d88
part number is 31-335-RFX
Dan Ballin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Those are not AMP connectors.....the "True" AMP connectors have a raw cost
many times higher than that. Those are the commercial grade Amphenol (not
to be confused with the AMP/Tyco silver plated Mil Spec BNC's). Even the
high grade Amphenol non RFX right angle connectors are well above $17, if
you want the consumer grade RFX listed as you referenced, you can find them
all over the place cheaper than that by a good margin (around $3-4).
That being said, the RFX's are not bad BNC's (we frequently use them on
straight connectors), but on the much more complex right angle connectors we
prefer the higher grade ones.
Anyway, just wanted to make sure people didn't think that particular
connector listed below was actually an AMP connector or a Mil Spec
connector...neither of which it is. Amphenol is a completely different
company/product line than AMP/Tyco. Just because someone says they "meet or
exceed" military specifications on a website doesn't make it true.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Ballin
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 10:14 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RIght angle BNC
Not to beat a dead horse, but KCI (parts for Lancair) has true right
angle connectors from amp for about $5
http://www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=31-335-RFX&ReturnUrl=Catego
ries.aspx?Category=c1df7b9d-24c4-41d0-90ec-76fb691e4d88
part number is 31-335-RFX
Dan Ballin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | Capacitance to Voltage Converter |
What's the solution? How do you find out about it? Web Site?
-john-
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of longg(at)pjm.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 8:06 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Capacitance to Voltage Converter
>
>
> Thanks Doug,
>
> Another reader provided a great option. I just talked to the
> proprietor from SaintAero LLC saintaero(at)charter.net
> 817.578.7339. He's got the solution in a box. The check is in
> the mail. $100.00
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Doug Ilg
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 10:28 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Capacitance to Voltage Converter
>
>
>
> I'd suggest giving EI a call. They have always been very
> helpful, when I've called with questions.
>
>
>
> Doug Ilg
> Grumman Tiger N74818, College Park Airport (KCGS), Maryland
> Challenger II LSS LW (N641LG reserved) - kit underway at
> Laurel Suburban
> (W18)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: "longg(at)pjm.com" <longg(at)pjm.com>
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 9:49:57 AM
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Capacitance to Voltage Converter
> >
> >
> > Question: Can any of you recommend a solution for converting an EI
> > P-300C capacitance probe output, "something squared" to 0-5 volts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ray Allen Pushbutton Wiring Question |
| From: | Marty Santic <marty.santic(at)gmail.com> |
The wire supplied with the Ray Allen microphone PTT grip is very small. I
would say it is #28 or #30. What is a good butt-splice to use for this
application.
--
Marty Santic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | shielded comm radio question |
Hello group=2C
Can someone with avionics wiring experience advise me whether or not I ne
ed
shielded wire for my Icom A200 power in and out. I will have a strobe ligh
t system. I also have
a King transponder.
I have an ample supply 16AWG shielded tefzel. I've wired the +12V & gnd
for the KT 76
with the shielded stuff so far. (maybe I didn't need to. ???)
Should I use the shieded stuff for the Icom +12v & the ground=2C or the f
lash tubes supply=2C
or both? The Icom is the mobile vehicle style =2C with the CB radio type t
ray (could be the same
tray the airplane version uses). The factory wiring plug for the A200M use
s just ordinary auto
type wire. Surely they know lots of line vehicles have strobes=2C too. Ri
ght??
I'm just not clear when shielded wire is really neccessary=2C or where it
ought to be used.
Thanks=2C MIke Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | edward Clegg <edwclg(at)gmail.com> |
Those that are using Vans tachometers, have you had any problem with them.
Mine after 223 hours is intermittent. That is it will go to zero and after a
brief time go back to working normally.
Is this a transducer problem or gauge. All wires have been checked.
Thanks,
Ed Clegg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Nellis <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Pushbutton Wiring Question |
For wire that small a butt splice would not be apprpriate. Instead,
soldering the wires together covered by heat shrink might be a better
alternative.
Mike
> The wire supplied with the Ray Allen microphone PTT grip is very
> small. I would say it is #28 or #30. What is a good butt-splice to
> use for this application.
>
> --
> Marty Santic
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
My Vans transducer is brand new and I can already tell it's a piece of
junk. When I spin it by hand it gets stuck in the grove. Your cable is
either broken inside or it's about too. I'll be really surprised if I
get 233 hours out of it. I've read from some that the backside of the
tip can be filed down so it doesn't catch so much.
Personally, if there is a better option, I'm all ears.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
edward Clegg
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:34 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Vans tach
Those that are using Vans tachometers, have you had any problem with
them.
Mine after 223 hours is intermittent. That is it will go to zero and
after a brief time go back to working normally.
Is this a transducer problem or gauge. All wires have been checked.
Thanks,
Ed Clegg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Pushbutton Wiring Question |
Alternatively, use male and female crimp pins for a D-Sub connector and
heat shrink them together.
From: Mike Nellis
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Pushbutton Wiring Question
For wire that small a butt splice would not be apprpriate. Instead,
soldering the wires together covered by heat shrink might be a better
alternative.
Mike
The wire supplied with the Ray Allen microphone PTT grip is very
small. I would say it is #28 or #30. What is a good butt-splice to use
for this application.
--
Marty Santic
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
06:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Pushbutton Wiring Question |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
You could also use solder type D-sub connectors with heat shrink.
I used the High Density 3 row D-sub connectors from Radio Shack modified to fit
inside my stick.
See last 3 pics:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=31671
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317232#317232
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "S. Ramirez" <simon(at)synchdes.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Pushbutton Wiring Question |
These PICABOND butt splices are made by Tyco for the telephone cable
industry. I have the part drawing PDF if anyone needs it.
Digi-Key pn 61899-1-ND, Tyco connector butt splice, 24-28 AWG, orange,
61899-1, $.21 each
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1914216-conn-splice-butt-24-28awg-orange-61899-1.html
Simon Ramirez
LEZ N-44LZ
Oviedo, FL USA
On 10/27/2010 1:49 PM, Vern Little wrote:
Alternatively, use male and female crimp pins for a D-Sub connector and
heat shrink them together.
*From:* Mike Nellis
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 27, 2010 10:18 AM
*To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Pushbutton Wiring Question
For wire that small a butt splice would not be apprpriate. Instead,
soldering the wires together covered by heat shrink might be a better
alternative.
Mike
> The wire supplied with the Ray Allen microphone PTT grip is very
> small. I would say it is #28 or #30. What is a good butt-splice to
> use for this application.
>
> --
> Marty Santic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Ray Allen Pushbutton Wiring Question |
These PICABOND butt splices are made by Tyco for the telephone cable
industry. I have the part drawing PDF if anyone needs it.
Digi-Key pn 61899-1-ND, Tyco connector butt splice, 24-28 AWG, orange,
61899-1, $.21 each
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1914216-conn-splice-butt-24-28awg-orange
-61
899-1.html
Simon Ramirez
Simon,
Do these splices require a special crimping tool? At what
price?
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Pushbutton Wiring Question |
At 10:13 AM 10/27/2010, you wrote:
>The wire supplied with the Ray Allen microphone PTT grip is very
>small. I would say it is #28 or #30. What is a good butt-splice to
>use for this application.
Solder and heat-shrink. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: shielded comm radio question |
At 10:14 AM 10/27/2010, you wrote:
>Hello group,
>
> Can someone with avionics wiring experience advise me whether or not I need
>shielded wire for my Icom A200 power in and out. I will have a
>strobe light system. I also have
>a King transponder.
>
> I have an ample supply 16AWG shielded tefzel. I've wired the
> +12V & gnd for the KT 76
>with the shielded stuff so far. (maybe I didn't need to. ???)
>
> Should I use the shieded stuff for the Icom +12v & the ground, or
> the flash tubes supply,
>or both? The Icom is the mobile vehicle style , with the CB radio
>type tray (could be the same
>tray the airplane version uses). The factory wiring plug for the
>A200M uses just ordinary auto
>type wire. Surely they know lots of line vehicles have strobes, too. Right??
>
> I'm just not clear when shielded wire is really neccessary, or
> where it ought to be used.
Suggest you review chapters on noise in the
'Connection. Shielding is a hedge against a
particular form of coupling (electro-static)
between a potential antagonist and a potential
victim. Unless specifically called out in the
manufacturer's installation instructions, don't
bother.
Shielding of power lines is never useful. If
manufacturer's data does show shielded wire
on power leads, I'd like to know about it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC Fittings |
At 10:08 AM 10/26/2010, you wrote:
>For what it's worth, here's one data point for you.
>I used a 90 degree BNC adapter between my transponder antenna and
>the coax and the transponder would not work. It was an adapter, not
>a connector. I switched to a straight coax to antenna connection
>(just barely had enough room) and it worked fine.
>I have since sworn off ever again using a 90 degree BNC adapter.
But Stan, there have been gazillions of right
angle adapters produced and no doubt successfully
used in as many situations. The fact that you
suffered one instance of a failed installation
would be worthy of a failure analysis. There
is probably a logical cause for the effect that
has nothing to do with whether any particular
combination of connectors was installed.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
At 10:08 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>For your consideration.
Sorry . . . been out of town for a couple days. Dr. Dee
had to move her offices at the college. I've been helping
with cleaning, painting and repairing. Yeah, they do
have folks that take care of those things, when it works
into their schedule. We got it move-in-ready in two days.
The scheme you show would work too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 11:38 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>
> > I think I'll go with the DB9, and combine two pins for the Icom
> and the King transponder.
>
> > Do grounds go through this connector too?
> > They need to be as robust as the power
> > feeder pins. Also, it's common practice with
> >any new design to have spare pins in any
> >connector to allow for future expansion
> >without having to re-wire a connector.
> >We used to shoot for 15 to 20% spares.
> >Suggest you consider a larger connector
> >especially if you need to add grounds too.
>
> > Bob . . .
>
>Hi Bob,
>
> Yes, I plan on running the ground thru the DB connector. I was
> going to allocate
>four pins to supply the ground connection for the front panel. My
>plan is the main ground
>wire be #12AWG, leading down to the 4-way split to the (4ea) #16AWG
>soldered to each pin.
>The recepticle connector then gets the same treatment for ground,
>i.e.(4ea) #16AWG back to
>#12AWG, with the ground wire terminating at a buss bar.
???? Dsub pins are designed for 20AWG max. Suggest you carry
the four ground pins all the way on 20AWG. Use two for one
radio, two for the other..
>
> Since I mentioned DB9 earlier, I just left that plug in the
> conversation. The fact is, after
>counting and leaving a couple of pins as spares, I am actually getting a DB15.
>
>The pin allocation was planned to be this;
>
>After using two pins each for the Icom and the King transponder, one
>each for the Dynon and
>Garmin 296, and four for the ground, this makes ten pins so
>far. Using one pin to light the
>instrument lights, and one for some super tiny current drawers (like
>the Dynon alarm circuit
>you drew for me), I'm left with at least three spares. I could even
>include the Dynon alarm
>power in with the instrument lights, and be left with 4 extra pins.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 296 mini ound 9 pin pinout |
Bob=2C
Thanks for the reply re: the shielded cable. I'll do the review you ment
ioned. No=2C I didn't
see anyone's recommending the shielded wires. I was just trying to avoid a
potential problem=2C
since wiring changes at this stage is simple compared to doing a repair lat
er.
___________________________________________________________________________
___
Now=2C for this post=3B for the last hour and a half I've been scouring
the internet looking for the
Garmin 296 pinout. The best I could come up with is the list of the 9 item
s in the connector=2C but
nothing so far that identifies which one is which.
Could someone direct me to a link of the Garmin GPSMAP 296 pinout. I hav
e the bare cable
and am intending on hard wiring the unit for my Air Gizmo Panel Dock?
Thanks again=2C Bob=2C and thanks for anyone that can find the 296's pino
ut.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Buckaroo Banzai <ornerycuss2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296 mini ound 9 pin pinout |
Go to the Garmin website and download their manuals.- There's a pinout ne
ar the end of (I think) the pilot's manual.
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/manual.jsp?product=010-00356-00&cID=1
69&pID=6399
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Mike Welch wrote:
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 296 mini ound 9 pin pinout
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:23 PM
=0A=0A=0ABob,-
=0A-
=0A- Thanks for the reply re: the shielded cable.- I'll do the review y
ou mentioned.- No, I didn't
=0Asee anyone's recommending the shielded wires.- I was just trying to av
oid a potential problem,
=0Asince wiring changes at this stage is simple compared to doing a repair
later.
=0A________________________________________________________________________
______
=0A-
=0A-
=0A- Now, for this post;- for the last hour and a half I've been scouri
ng the internet looking for the
=0AGarmin 296 pinout.- The best I could come up with is the list of the 9
items in the connector, but
=0Anothing so far that identifies which one is which.
=0A-
=0A- Could someone direct me to a link of the Garmin GPSMAP 296 pinout.
- I have the bare cable
=0Aand am intending on hard wiring the unit for my Air Gizmo Panel Dock?
=0A-
=0A- Thanks again, Bob, and thanks for anyone that can find the 296's pin
out.
=0A-
=0AMike
========================0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 296 mini ound 9 pin pinout |
>Go to the Garmin website and download their manuals. There's a pinout nea
r the end of
>(I think) the pilot's manual.
>https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/manual.jsp?product=010-00356-00&cID=
169&pID=6399
Thanks a ton=2C Buck. I had gone to their website=2C but for the life of m
e I sure couldn't find the pinout.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 10/25/10 |
Yep, that looks like the ticket. It is in fact already configured for the
task at hand. The only reservations I'd have are the cost and size. In my
cursory explorations they have both been rather large, although neither
seem to be listed for this particular unit.
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
>
> From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
>
>
> > You know=2C the thing that would make the 12 - 24v battery cart zippy
wou
> ld be a DPDT knife switch
> >I wonder if such a thing is still available=2C especially in some sort
of
> surpluss house...
> >
> > Glen Matejcek
>
>
> Glen=2C
>
> You mean like this=3B
>
> http://www.wirthco.com/12/24-volt-heavy-equipment-switch-p-66-l-en.html
>
> Although it isn't configured exactly yet=2C it wouldn't be but a very
min
> or mod to make it so.
>
> I think you are right. This would be a very simple solution!!
>
> Mike Welch
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Whupps- looks like I hit send a smidge too soon... the size is listed on
another tab and would be entirely fine at 4-3/4"W x 6-3/8" L x 2"H. Were
it mounted in a recess behind a hinged piece of plex such that the plex
naturally fell over the switch to cover it, it would be protected from
accidental tool-induced shorts while it's position would still be visible.
Then about the only pilot-proofing issue would be avoiding plugging the
unit into a 12v system while configured for 24v.
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
Bob,thanks for looking at it.
I, Raymond Julian, do hereby formally release the design into the wild.:)
If anyone builds one I would be interested in hearing about it or seeing
pictures.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 10/27/2010 04:10 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> At 10:08 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>> Bob,
>>
>> For your consideration.
>
> Sorry . . . been out of town for a couple days. Dr. Dee
> had to move her offices at the college. I've been helping
> with cleaning, painting and repairing. Yeah, they do
> have folks that take care of those things, when it works
> into their schedule. We got it move-in-ready in two days.
>
> The scheme you show would work too.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
Hi
Apologies in advance for the non connection with this (our) specialized web
site: but we need help
>
> I expect most of you know about the charity that has restored XH558 to
> flight, which has allowed it to fly at air shows over the last few years.
> Unfortunately it has nearly run out of money and if they don't get a
> certain
> amount of funding secured by Sunday 28th October, the whole thing will be
> over and it will either be permanently grounded or sold abroad.
>
> If any of you want to contribute, or maybe forward this to other flyers or
> aviation enthusiasts who might contribute, the links are below.
>
> http://www.vulcantothesky.org/
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-11642558
Thank you for your interest
John (RV9a builder - England)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Buckaroo Banzai <ornerycuss2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 296 mini ound 9 pin pinout |
It's on page 134.
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Mike Welch wrote:
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 296 mini ound 9 pin pinout
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 5:38 PM
=0A=0A=0A
-
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A>Go to the Garmin website and download their manuals.- The
re's a pinout near the end of
=0A>(I think) the pilot's manual.
>https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/manual.jsp?product=010-00356-00&cID=
169&pID=6399
Thanks a ton, Buck.- I had gone to their website, but for the life of me
I sure couldn't find the pinout.
=0A-
=0AMike
=0A=0A-
=0A=0A-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectri
c-List=0Attp://forums.matronics.com=0A=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/co
====0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 296 mini ound 9 pin pinout |
>It's on page 134.
Thanks=2C I already found it & wired it. I appreciate your efforts.
I also found the missing "r" in the subject (should have read 'round').
Typos! :-)
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | SD8 alt connection |
| From: | "gonzo24" <fmc(at)woh.rr.com> |
sorry if this has been covered but I cannot find it.
I am needing info on connection of the SD-8 aux alternator. I have a B&C 60 amp
primary and one odyssey 680 batt. Z13 shows the SD-8 connection from the relay
to the batt contactor I believe.
can I just hook this power out relay lead direct to the batt buss for back up power
only? Do i use a fusible link or in line fuse holder or breaker for this
connection?
I'm running dual lightspeed plasma II plus' as well.
Is their a diagram showing how to properly set up this mix of components?
thanks guys...
--------
RV-7a completed flown 700+ hrs sold
Rv-7 under construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317355#317355
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electric Propulsion |
A few of us are Imagining quiet vibration-free powered flight. We have been
following recent advances, and would love to convert a small motor glider or
Ultralight to Electric propulsion. We have more time than money, so we
probably won't purchase an off-the-shelf solution like the power plant
offered by Yaneec in China. Initially we would use less exotic batteries,
for very short proof of concept flights, and go for the much more expensive
battery systems after we prove we can get a plane in the air.
Do you, Robert, or anyone out there in Aeroelectric land have any experience
or advice about available (off the shelf) components (i.e., motors,
controllers, instrumentation, batteries, and chargers) that could be
inexpensively adapted for use on a small electric aircraft? Any info would
be appreciated.
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SD8 alt connection |
At 06:12 PM 10/28/2010, you wrote:
sorry if this has been covered but I cannot find it.
I am needing info on connection of the SD-8 aux alternator. I have a
B&C 60 amp primary and one odyssey 680 batt. Z13 shows the SD-8
connection from the relay to the batt contactor I believe.
can I just hook this power out relay lead direct to the batt buss for
back up power only? Do i use a fusible link or in line fuse holder
or breaker for this connection?
I'm running dual lightspeed plasma II plus' as well.
Is their a diagram showing how to properly set up this mix of components?
Yes, it's Z-13/8. When the SD-8 is powered up,
the battery contactor can optionally be turned
off and the SD-8 used to power only items driven
from the battery bus.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
I was thinking also that using power solenoid relays, the type used on RVs
it would be possible to install two power cables with differing physical
characteristics that would automatically fire the solenoids to give the
correct voltage... That way you couldn't ever hit your 14V system with a
28V boost. You could also just use the 12V connector for charging. It may
require that your connectors have switches close to them.
Noel... always looking for ways to confuse. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: October 27, 2010 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart
At 10:08 PM 10/24/2010, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>For your consideration.
Sorry . . . been out of town for a couple days. Dr. Dee
had to move her offices at the college. I've been helping
with cleaning, painting and repairing. Yeah, they do
have folks that take care of those things, when it works
into their schedule. We got it move-in-ready in two days.
The scheme you show would work too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fergus Kyle <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | an aeroelectric connection article |
Cheers,
I recall a recent article by Bob which showed how to replace the
usual jack screws on D-sub connector shells with modified 4-40 hardware
threaded rod (?) and 4-40 hex standoffs. I can't find it but it would answer
most of my D-Sub concerns behind the instrument panel.
Any suggestions as to source amiably respected.......
Ferg
VE3LVO(at)rac.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: an aeroelectric connection article |
I got replacement thumb screws about 1.5 inches long from Stein Air and
slotted the ends.
john
RV9A
On 10/29/2010 9:20 AM, Fergus Kyle wrote:
>
> Cheers,
>
> I recall a recent article by Bob which showed how to replace the usual
> jack screws on D-sub connector shells with modified 4-40 hardware
> threaded rod (?) and 4-40 hex standoffs. I can't find it but it would
> answer most of my D-Sub concerns behind the instrumentpanel.
>
> Any suggestions as to source amiably respected.......
>
> Ferg
>
> VE3LVO(at)rac.ca
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: an aeroelectric connection article |
On 10/29/2010 12:20 PM, Fergus Kyle wrote:
> Cheers,
>
> I recall a recent article by Bob which showed how to replace the usual jack screws
on
> D-sub connector shells with modified 4-40 hardware threaded rod (?) and 4-40
hex
> standoffs. I cant find it but it would answer most of my D-Sub concerns behind
the
> instrumentpanel.
>
> Any suggestions as to source amiably respected.......
>
> Ferg
>
> VE3LVO(at)rac.ca
>
From this list about 2 weeks ago:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/DIY_Jackscrews.jpg
--
Regards, J.
Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jabiru 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
restoring the Johnston Special
http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. | (computer science) |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
If you write the word "monkey" a million times, do you
start to think you're Shakespeare?
--- Steven Wright
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Digikey substitution on 9021-620 |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
On the low voltage warning module the bill of materials calls out a
digikey p2015 and lists that as a 1.0uf 16v tantalum capacitor.
Digikey says that the p2015 is non-stock, but is a 22ufd 6.3v tantalum
capacitor. Has anyone resolved this discrepancy and found an updated
digikey part number? This is c111 in the drawings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | D-subminiature Connectors |
10/30/2010
Hello Fergus, You wrote: "..... how to replace the usual jack screws on
D-sub connector shells ..."
You could try this solution -- see posting copied below:
======================================================
From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net> Subject: D-subminiature Connectors Date:
5/29/2010
Hello Fellow Builders, Here is what we are writing about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature
Bob Nuckolls writes: "It's a fact that the majority of d-sub connectors come
with
short, slotted-head 4-40 jack screws that are EXCEEDINGLY
difficult to work with in confined spaces traversed by wire
bundles." ..and ... "the inconvenience of stock, slot-head jack-screws."
{RESPONSE} He offers a screw handling solution here:
http://tinyurl.com/34nrdd5
I'd like to offer another solution -- use #4-40 machine screws with hex
socket (Allen wrench) drive heads. The hex socket drive head allows one to
manuever the small screws in a manner vastly superior to a straight slot or
phillips drive head screw.
See here for a source of such screws:
http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
Here is just one source of tools for handling these screws:
http://www.bondhus.com/
Conventional Allen wrenches work fine for most handling of these screws, but
these Prohold tools will give even more control if needed:
http://www.bondhus.com/features/prohold/body-0.htm
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: An aerospace vehicle with hex socket or Torx / six lobe / star drive
fasteners is much easier to work on than a vehicle with straight slot or
Phillips drive fasteners. See here for some handy tool kits to work with the
hex socket or Torx / six lobe / star drive fasteners:
http://www.chapmanmfg.com/
======================================================
AeroElectric-List: an aeroelectric connection article Cheers,
I recall a recent article by Bob which showed how to replace the
usual jack screws on D-sub connector shells with modified 4-40 hardware
threaded rod (?) and 4-40 hex standoffs. I can't find it but it would answer
most of my D-Sub concerns behind the instrument panel.
Any suggestions as to source amiably respected.......
Ferg
VE3LVO(at)rac.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digikey substitution on 9021-620 |
At 03:41 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote:
>
>On the low voltage warning module the bill of materials calls out a
>digikey p2015 and lists that as a 1.0uf 16v tantalum capacitor.
>Digikey says that the p2015 is non-stock, but is a 22ufd 6.3v tantalum
>capacitor. Has anyone resolved this discrepancy and found an updated
>digikey part number? This is c111 in the drawings.
The parts called out on our drawings were components
suited to the task at the time the device was in
production. The cataloging of components is in a
constant state of change. Further, it's not uncommon
for there to be dozens of components from many
manufacturers equally suited to the task.
Launching into a DIY project offers far more than
the opportunity to melt a little solder. Changes
in minute details of ingredients that go into the
recipe for success throw up small challenges to
venture into the catalogs and find alternatives in
that have the same or suitably close ratings that
will still fit on the board.
In this array of small parts drawers
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop_1.jpg
there are thousands of components that have been in my
inventory for anywhere between a few days and 40 years.
Very few are still offered under the same catalog or
manufacturer's numbers as the day they were purchased.
Yet all have capabilities that make them good substitutes
for their modern descendants.
The bill of materials in our DIY projects are
best described as the trail head for an adventure
in the study of component performance and
interchangeability.
Look for any dipped tantalum, 1.0 uF, 16v or
more that will fit the holes.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Ground Power / Tiedown Power Cart |
At 10:28 AM 10/29/2010, you wrote:
>
>I was thinking also that using power solenoid relays, the type used on RVs
>it would be possible to install two power cables with differing physical
>characteristics that would automatically fire the solenoids to give the
>correct voltage... That way you couldn't ever hit your 14V system with a
>28V boost. You could also just use the 12V connector for charging. It may
>require that your connectors have switches close to them.
The 'professional' carts are virtually all
configured for 12/24 with high current contactors.
I started to publish a drawing suggesting that
approach.
Then I began to consider how often the OBAM
aircraft owner/operator would make use of the
device and did some trade-offs for cost of
acquisition/ownership versus frequency of
need.
As a spam can jocky, I think I needed the
support of a ground power cart perhaps three
or four times in 1000+ hours and 30 years.
For the half year we owned the airport at
Benton, we never pulled out the battery
cart even once.
So how much $time$ is appropriate for the
acquisition of a battery cart for personal
use? This is a question that each builder
has to consider for themselves. The answers
may range from two batteries in a Radio Flyer
wagon and an array of jumper cables . . . up
to an including a killobuck Hobart gound-power
cart.
The approach I suggested was my assessment of
a low $time$ approach that offered all the
necessary capabilities for getting an engine
started on either 14 or 28v aircraft which
exploited the hands-on approach to fabrication
that is deeply rooted in OBAM aviation.
It takes about $100 worth of contactors to
do the 12/24 switching. The bill of materials
for a manual 'patch panel' is much less
expensive and can be acquired at any well
stocked hardware store. The choices are
many. The basic schematic for the contactor
based battery cart was published by another
reader last week I believe.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Digikey substitution on 9021-620 |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
Thanks. If I can substitute the 16v voltage rating there are some choices with
higher ratings.
Relative to the level of adventure required to obtain the circuit boards it should
all be downhill from here, right?
On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:12, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
>
> At 03:41 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> On the low voltage warning module the bill of materials calls out a
>> digikey p2015 and lists that as a 1.0uf 16v tantalum capacitor.
>> Digikey says that the p2015 is non-stock, but is a 22ufd 6.3v tantalum
>> capacitor. Has anyone resolved this discrepancy and found an updated
>> digikey part number? This is c111 in the drawings.
>
> The parts called out on our drawings were components
> suited to the task at the time the device was in
> production. The cataloging of components is in a
> constant state of change. Further, it's not uncommon
> for there to be dozens of components from many
> manufacturers equally suited to the task.
>
> Launching into a DIY project offers far more than
> the opportunity to melt a little solder. Changes
> in minute details of ingredients that go into the
> recipe for success throw up small challenges to
> venture into the catalogs and find alternatives in
> that have the same or suitably close ratings that
> will still fit on the board.
>
> In this array of small parts drawers
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop_1.jpg
>
> there are thousands of components that have been in my
> inventory for anywhere between a few days and 40 years.
> Very few are still offered under the same catalog or
> manufacturer's numbers as the day they were purchased.
> Yet all have capabilities that make them good substitutes
> for their modern descendants.
>
> The bill of materials in our DIY projects are
> best described as the trail head for an adventure
> in the study of component performance and
> interchangeability.
>
> Look for any dipped tantalum, 1.0 uF, 16v or
> more that will fit the holes.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digikey substitution on 9021-620 |
With capacitors a higher voltage rating is perfectly fine. Depending on
the actual circuit design, a lower voltage is sometimes acceptable.
When I design a circuit I usually pick a readily available capacitor
with a voltage rating of 2X what it really has to be for safety margin.
Sometimes the voltage needed is very low and a capacitor is chosen
solely on availability and cost.
Frequently the value chosen is somewhat arbitrary as well.. It depends
on what the capacitor is used for in the circuit. If it is purely for
voltage filtering or noise reduction, higher value is usually acceptable
and sometimes better. If it is part of a precision circuit of some sort
(timing, filter network such as low-pass, band-pass, etc) the value is
more critical.
For most commercial or industrial designs the value and voltage is
chosen based on whatever will do the job required for the least cost.
My $0.02...
Dick Tasker
Jared Yates wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jared Yates
>
> Thanks. If I can substitute the 16v voltage rating there are some choices with
higher ratings.
> Relative to the level of adventure required to obtain the circuit boards it should
all be downhill from here, right?
>
>
> On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:12, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>>
>> At 03:41 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote:
>>
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jared Yates
>>>
>>> On the low voltage warning module the bill of materials calls out a
>>> digikey p2015 and lists that as a 1.0uf 16v tantalum capacitor.
>>> Digikey says that the p2015 is non-stock, but is a 22ufd 6.3v tantalum
>>> capacitor. Has anyone resolved this discrepancy and found an updated
>>> digikey part number? This is c111 in the drawings.
>>>
>> The parts called out on our drawings were components
>> suited to the task at the time the device was in
>> production. The cataloging of components is in a
>> constant state of change. Further, it's not uncommon
>> for there to be dozens of components from many
>> manufacturers equally suited to the task.
>>
>> Launching into a DIY project offers far more than
>> the opportunity to melt a little solder. Changes
>> in minute details of ingredients that go into the
>> recipe for success throw up small challenges to
>> venture into the catalogs and find alternatives in
>> that have the same or suitably close ratings that
>> will still fit on the board.
>>
>> In this array of small parts drawers
>>
>> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop_1.jpg
>>
>> there are thousands of components that have been in my
>> inventory for anywhere between a few days and 40 years.
>> Very few are still offered under the same catalog or
>> manufacturer's numbers as the day they were purchased.
>> Yet all have capabilities that make them good substitutes
>> for their modern descendants.
>>
>> The bill of materials in our DIY projects are
>> best described as the trail head for an adventure
>> in the study of component performance and
>> interchangeability.
>>
>> Look for any dipped tantalum, 1.0 uF, 16v or
>> more that will fit the holes.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digikey substitution on 9021-620 |
At 10:55 AM 10/30/2010, you wrote:
>
>Thanks. If I can substitute the 16v voltage rating there are some
>choices with higher ratings.
>Relative to the level of adventure required to obtain the circuit
>boards it should all be downhill from here, right?
One never knows. 200 years ago our most successful inhabitants
of the frontier began educating their children in survival lore
as soon as they could walk and talk. Today not so much. But
we do have huge resources for materials, recipes for success
and mentorship along with the communications tools for exploiting
them.
I can tell you that even today, a significant number of first,
second and perhaps third passes at a new endeavor go into my
trash can before I build one that I can bolt to an airplane.
If we did not accept a certain amount of risk, then there
would be no incentive to do anything new . . . and we'd all
be working on wood, fabric and Model-A powered airplanes.
So "down hill" ? ? ? Depends on your present tool box of
skills and experiences. But for sure, staying with this project
until it plays to your satisfaction will add considerable
investment capital to invest in future endeavors. If you get
really jammed up . . .send the assembly to me and I'll put
the meters to it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: D-subminiature Connectors |
10/30/2010
Hello Fergus, Got the picture. Here is a solution. Go to the Chapman Mfg Co
web site:
http://www.chapmanmfg.com/
On that web site you will find that one of their tools is a very clever,
short swing ratchet. Specifically this tool here:
http://www.chapmanmfg.com/aboutourtools.html
This ratchet is used by putting one of the hex drive adapters into the
ratchet. If the adapter is put into the ratchet from one side the ratchet
will rotate the adapter clockwise (in). If the adapter is put into the
ratchet from the other side the ratchet will rotate the adapter
counterclockwise (out).
You can start the hex socket drive 4-40 machine screw either by hand or by
using the adapter as a handle for the machine screw. Once the screw is
started, and there is enough friction to permit the ratchet to function as a
ratchet, you can put the adapter into the ratchet, feel the adapter into the
screw head socket, and ratchet away to tighten the machine screw.
Chapman standard kit # 4320 should get you started, but you might want to
look over some of the other kits available as well. I keep one Chapman kit
in the hangar and one Chapman kit in my pickup truck. I need to handle both
hex socket drive machine screws and Torx drive machine screws.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
PS: I keep one of these kits with me in my airplane at all times -- you may
prefer one of them to the Chapman kits:
http://www.newmantools.com/wfmc.htm
==============================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 10:08 AM
Subject: FW: D-subminiature Connectors
>
>
> From: f.kyle(at)sympatico.ca [mailto:f.kyle(at)sympatico.ca] On Behalf Of Fergus
> Kyle
> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 9:37 AM
> To: 0ferg
> Subject: RE: D-subminiature Connectors
>
>
> OC:
>
> Thanks for your quick and complete treatise on the D-sub
> dilemma....!
>
> My problem is the application of D-sub components in modules buried
> in the instrument panel such that the connectors must be applied backwards
> (i.e: from the front of the aircraft BACK onto the sockets on the Front of
> the modules with one hand in the sub-panel. Thus only screws which can be
> applied by the one hand BACKWARDS from the seat may be used. I chose 3/16"
> hex for the heads of same because I can hand-tighten them then apply a
> small
> 3/16" wrench to fully tighten same. It's hard to explain, but slotted or
> hexhead holes won't work due to components nearby.
>
> Hope this came out OK. Dotted line is the route to tighten screw
> despite obstruction, i.e: No room for in-line tightener such as slotted
> driver, etc.
>
> All the best
>
> Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Figure Z-16 Question |
I am involved in the wiring of a 912s. I have all the parts as specified for the
books Z-16 schematic. Now looking closer, a question came to mind concerning the
wire path between the S1 and the main power bus...What is the need of changing
up the wire size from 22AWG to 18AWG and then into the 22 AWG fuseable link?
Will it not work using 18 AWG from the switch into the fuse link and then to the
bus? confused
Thanks
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Figure Z-16 Question |
Dan;
Yes it will work, but---
The 22ga fuse link protects the 18ga wire should it short to ground . The 5A
breaker protects the 22ga wire feeding the alternator relay if or when the
overvoltage protection shorts it to ground. 22ga is sufficient to carry the
max 5A current permitted by the breaker. 22ga is not safe for the whole
distance in the specific case of a ground short between the buss and the
master switch (S1). The 18ga will carry the short circuit currents long
enough for the fusible link to melt without itself overheating. The 5A
breaker is a critical component in the functioning of the overvoltage
protection. It's not clear in your description if you meant to leave out
this breaker.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley
> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 5:35 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Figure Z-16 Question
>
>
>
> I am involved in the wiring of a 912s. I have all the parts as specified
for the
> books Z-16 schematic. Now looking closer, a question came to mind
concerning the
> wire path between the S1 and the main power bus...What is the need of
changing
> up the wire size from 22AWG to 18AWG and then into the 22 AWG fuseable
link?
> Will it not work using 18 AWG from the switch into the fuse link and then
to the
> bus? confused
> Thanks
> Dan
>
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Figure Z-16 Question |
Thanks Bob,
That cleared it up...With all the digging, researching and head scratching, I
didn't know that was a breaker. I even looked back thru the book the other day
trying to find it. I did it again just now and found it was in a very small
picture at the front. Duh How many orders to B&C as well as Spruce does it
take to have stock in the shipping industry? This is me leaving to order a
breaker .
Dan
----- Original Message ----
From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 6:40:19 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Figure Z-16 Question
Dan;
Yes it will work, but---
The 22ga fuse link protects the 18ga wire should it short to ground . The 5A
breaker protects the 22ga wire feeding the alternator relay if or when the
overvoltage protection shorts it to ground. 22ga is sufficient to carry the
max 5A current permitted by the breaker. 22ga is not safe for the whole
distance in the specific case of a ground short between the buss and the
master switch (S1). The 18ga will carry the short circuit currents long
enough for the fusible link to melt without itself overheating. The 5A
breaker is a critical component in the functioning of the overvoltage
protection. It's not clear in your description if you meant to leave out
this breaker.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley
> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 5:35 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Figure Z-16 Question
>
>
>
> I am involved in the wiring of a 912s. I have all the parts as specified
for the
> books Z-16 schematic. Now looking closer, a question came to mind
concerning the
> wire path between the S1 and the main power bus...What is the need of
changing
> up the wire size from 22AWG to 18AWG and then into the 22 AWG fuseable
link?
> Will it not work using 18 AWG from the switch into the fuse link and then
to the
> bus? confused
> Thanks
> Dan
>
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - List Fund Raiser Kickoff! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions
of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO
advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack
of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages
and web site pages including:
* Matronics List Forums http://forums.matronics.com
* Matronics List List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com
* Matronics List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search
* Matronics List Browser http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
You don't find advertising on any of these pages because I believe in a List experience
that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and
not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these Lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
* Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
* Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
* Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-8 Builder and Flyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skillet" <ruth686(at)msn.com> |
I have a King KR86 with the 42B antenna. the24' cable has been cut.
Can I splice it back together or cut it to 15'. The manual instructs; Do not change
cable length. King offered the cable @ either 24' or 15'.
Where the 15' and 24' cables identical other than length?
The part #'s for the 15' and 24' differ only by the last letter/digit.
Thank You
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317757#317757
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: KR86 42b ADF |
At 10:26 AM 11/1/2010, you wrote:
>
>I have a King KR86 with the 42B antenna. the24' cable has been cut.
>Can I splice it back together or cut it to 15'. The manual
>instructs; Do not change cable length. King offered the cable @
>either 24' or 15'.
>Where the 15' and 24' cables identical other than length?
>The part #'s for the 15' and 24' differ only by the last letter/digit.
Those fixed length cables were designed
to present a certain capacitance to critically
tuned circuits within the receiver. If I
recall correctly, the "coaxial" cable wasn't
really an impedance-matched material . . . the
center conductor was a very fine wire compared
to the inside diameter of the shield. I suspect
that the material for both cables is the same
and the 15' cable has a capacitor added inside
one of the connector shells to compensate for
the shorter cable's lower capacitance.
Just an educated guess.
Suggest you splice it with a minimum removal
of original cable.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LED strips for cabin light |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Gents,
I've been pondering for a while what to do about an inexpensive, neat
cabin light for my Jodel project. I thought LEDs were the way to go,
and instead of fabricating something, bought something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/24-LED-White-Flexible-Strip-Waterproof-Car-Light-Bulb-/160500858701#ht_3067wt_1066
It runs straight off the bus, is nice and bright, and was easy enough
to mount. It's set into a slot in a piece of thin ply, with some
spruce stiffeners each side of the slot, then the ply was covered with
headlining material. It fits really well in the cabin roof. Picture
attached. Forgive the poor quality, but hopefully you can make out
what's going on.
James
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: KR86 42b ADF |
| From: | "Skillet" <ruth686(at)msn.com> |
Thanks that was helpful.
Brian
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317818#317818
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Knife blade connectors |
Heard recently an allegation that this type of connector may no longer
be allowed on certified aircraft. Old wives tale or is there some
substance? I've learned to take 43-13 with a grain of salt, so figured
would ask the experts first.
Kelly
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
I just received the S704-1 Alt OV disconnect relay from B&C. AFter searching
several sources, I think I know how to connect. The question I have is...as
there are two coil tabs, does it matter how the polarity is attached? Thanks
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Knife blade connectors |
| From: | "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil> |
News to me, Kelly,
Where'd you hear that?
neal
============
Heard recently an allegation that this type of connector may no longer
be allowed on certified aircraft. Old wives tale or is there some
substance? I've learned to take 43-13 with a grain of salt, so figured
would ask the experts first.
Kelly
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Knife blade connectors |
Another mail list, attributed to old crusty A&P/IA. I like those old
connectors, so wanted to be sure it was not based in anything official.
On 11/2/2010 5:17 AM, George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ wrote:
> News to me, Kelly,
>
> Where'd you hear that?
>
> neal
>
> ============
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen
>
>
> Heard recently an allegation that this type of connector may no longer
> be allowed on certified aircraft. Old wives tale or is there some
> substance? I've learned to take 43-13 with a grain of salt, so figured
> would ask the experts first.
> Kelly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
Do NOT forget to go vote today!
B2
________________________________________________________________________________
I want to install a moisture sensor in my stub wing to determine the
presence of fuel/water. It should activate a light if moisture is
detected. I found the link below which has a nice sensor, but requires a
lot of fancy accessories. I want simple.
Has anyone installed something like this or come across a source for a
thermocouple that senses moisture?
http://www.smarthome.com/71932/X10-Water-Moisture-Sensor-CR1/p.aspx
Thanks
Glenn E. Long
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Knife blade connectors |
At 10:01 PM 11/1/2010, you wrote:
>
>Heard recently an allegation that this type of connector may no
>longer be allowed on certified aircraft. Old wives tale or is there
>some substance? I've learned to take 43-13 with a grain of salt, so
>figured would ask the experts first.
There's a lot of confusion between what is "allowed" and
that which is no longer "common practice". As a general rule,
the folks-who-know-more-about-airplanes-than-we-do
will not indulge themselves in bans on specific products
unless they're involved in a safety of flight issue.
We've always had an interest in fabricating one-wire,
'serviceable' splices in certain wires. If one wanted
to avoid installing a one-pin connector, then some form
of breakable splice was called for. For the three weeks
I spent on the Cessna 310/320 assembly line, I installed
a bucket-full of "wrist-locks" . . .
Emacs!
In other venues, the knife-splice was favored . . .
Emacs!
Both technologies were covered with an insulating sleeve
secured in the center with a tie of string. Today, one might
use heat-shrink. Both technologies offer a tug-resistant
splice with good integrity.
When I left Hawker-Beech, these technologies had been replaced
in production for many years. Powers that be favored a line
of one-pin connectors. These were plastic housings with a
double-ended female connector molded in. A splice as achieved
by crimping the appropriate male pin on both wires and
seating them into the double-female housing.
It was fairly compact, used tools and pins commonly used
all over the airplane . . . and could be opened by simply
extracting one of the two pins with the appropriate tool.
MUCH more expensive for materials . . . a toss-up I think
for labor . . . but it IS the latest and greatest.
In the mean time, there's nothing 'wrong' with knife-
spices or wrist-locks if they meet your design goals.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
Still no joy for answer to previous question below...?
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>
Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 9:05:02 PM
Subject: Z-16
I just received the S704-1 Alt OV disconnect relay from B&C. AFter searching
several sources, I think I know how to connect. The question I have is...as
there are two coil tabs, does it matter how the polarity is attached? Thanks
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
I presume this is for the US citizen
Best of Luck - John (England)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 4:46 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: VOTE!
>
>
> Do NOT forget to go vote today!
>
> B2
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
Actually, John, that is not really clear in the America we live in today.
Hopefully, after this election, perhaps it will become more clear.
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
TIPTON
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VOTE!
I presume this is for the US citizen
Best of Luck - John (England)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 4:46 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: VOTE!
>
>
> Do NOT forget to go vote today!
>
> B2
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Battery contactor versus circuit breaker |
| From: | "mmayfield" <mmayfield(at)ozemail.com.au> |
OK, so the aircraft we're talking about has a very simple electrical system. Day
VFR only, a comm, a transponder, a few miscellaneous widgets like boost pump,
smoke pump, engine monitor, a couple of solenoid valves, and the engine is the
venerable M14P which is an air start motor. So the battery is also correspondingly
small, and recharged by the B&C SK10 alternator.
The traditional basic electrical schematic has an avionics master but I'm discarding
this because, well, I just can't see why it is needed at all for this setup.
Any issues there?
This diagram is also drawn with no battery contactor, but a main battery circuit
breaker instead, and the master switch is 14AWG wire in one side and out the
other to the bus, I believe.
How does this rate compared to using a battery contactor instead? I do recall Bob
talking of this being a bit of an unconventional layout (regarding a B&C wiring
diagram a while back). Would it be better to specify a battery contactor
in a conventional arrangement, or for this system would it not matter too much?
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317913#317913
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Thanks, John. Because it is so immediate and convenient, it's easy to forget
how world-wide this list (and the internet) is. I'll bet even Al Gore didn't
realize that when he invented it! :)
Terry
Seattle
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
TIPTON
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VOTE!
I presume this is for the US citizen
Best of Luck - John (England)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 4:46 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: VOTE!
>
>
> Do NOT forget to go vote today!
>
> B2
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Page <jpx(at)qenesis.com> |
| Subject: | VM1000C Fuel Pressure Sender Wiring |
A hangar mate asked me for help troubleshooting the fuel pressure
sender wiring to his Vision Microsystems VM1000C. The unit is a few
years old and he has just recently taken his first flight. The fuel
pressure has never functioned.
The fuel pressure sender is a JPI 3060-17, which is 5-32 PSI, 2 wire
resistive, for fuel injected engines (he has an IO-360).
He has confirmed wiring continuity and tested for shorts. The
pressure sender has been replaced with a new one.
He called JPI/Vision Microsystems but they were quite uninterested and
unhelpful :-(
What they did tell him is that while the manual indicates connections
to P5 pins 4 through 7, this particular sensor should be connected
between P5-7 (fuel pressure ground) and P5-8 (unlabelled in the manual).
Configuration is also necessary. Section 40.3 has five choices. I
watched him try each one. The result is that the pressure immediately
rises to the top of the scale and then the readout is replaced with Err.
Has anyone had success making this work ?
Which pins did you wire the sensor to ?
Did you add a pull up resistor, or ground one of the leads ?
Which configuration option worked ?
Any ideas will be appreciated.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Franz Fux <franz(at)lastfrontierheli.com> |
I vote every day when I get out of bed
On 02/11/10 2:26 PM, "JOHN TIPTON" wrote:
>
>
> I presume this is for the US citizen
>
> Best of Luck - John (England)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 4:46 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: VOTE!
>
>
>>
>>
>> Do NOT forget to go vote today!
>>
>> B2
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Franz Fux
Director of Operations
Last Frontier Heliskiing Ltd.
Bell 2 Lodge
P.O. Box 1237
Vernon, BC, V1T 6N6
CANADA
Office Contact
T: (250) 558-7980
F: (250) 558-7981
Lodge Contact
T: (250) 275-4770
F: (250) 275-4912
http://www.bell2lodge.com
---
LAST FRONTIER Heliskiing
www.lastfrontierheli.com
---
And for some of the best Steelhead Fishing in the world at Bell 2 Lodge
www.steelhead-fishing.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | November List Fund Raiser |
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, they will instantly cease to receive these
Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple.
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes
to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric
bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered
on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which
allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in
reliably and performance.
Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such
as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept
exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand
the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet
these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages,
when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous
public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Battery contactor versus circuit breaker |
Without seeing your schematic it sounds like the main cable coming from your
battery pack has no protection on it until it gets to the panel where the
circuit breaker is. Protection of the main battery cable is the reason that
contactors are installed as close to the battery as possible, especially in
installations where the battery is in the back of the plane. That includes
the starter solenoid and master relay.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mmayfield
Sent: November 2, 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery contactor versus circuit breaker
OK, so the aircraft we're talking about has a very simple electrical system.
Day VFR only, a comm, a transponder, a few miscellaneous widgets like boost
pump, smoke pump, engine monitor, a couple of solenoid valves, and the
engine is the venerable M14P which is an air start motor. So the battery is
also correspondingly small, and recharged by the B&C SK10 alternator.
The traditional basic electrical schematic has an avionics master but I'm
discarding this because, well, I just can't see why it is needed at all for
this setup. Any issues there?
This diagram is also drawn with no battery contactor, but a main battery
circuit breaker instead, and the master switch is 14AWG wire in one side and
out the other to the bus, I believe.
How does this rate compared to using a battery contactor instead? I do
recall Bob talking of this being a bit of an unconventional layout
(regarding a B&C wiring diagram a while back). Would it be better to specify
a battery contactor in a conventional arrangement, or for this system would
it not matter too much?
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317913#317913
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor versus circuit breaker |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Mike,
Be aware that a battery disconnection device that can be operated with one hand
is an FAA requirement. A battery contactor is an easy way to achieve this, but
you can do it with a big switch too.
I have been recommending a race-car switch for battery disconnection. See "Flaming
River" battery switch. Similar switches can be had from Harbor Freight. Removing
the handle can offer anti-theft protection too.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318024#318024
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Hi Dan,
I am not familiar with the S704-1 relay. But since nobody else answered, I will
give it a shot. Polarity of the coil does not matter for most relays. If a
relay has a built in diode, then polarity will matter. You could test the coil
with an ohmmeter to see if the coil is short circuited with one polarity and
not the other. Or you could put a small lamp in series with the relay. If
the lamp gets brighter with one polarity compared to the opposite polarity, then
there is a built in diode and the correct polarity is when the lamp is dim.
Or you could power up the relay using a power supply with built in short circuit
protection and see what happens. Or you could call B&C and ask them.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318027#318027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> |
Major Daley (the elder) said: Vote Early, Vote Often!
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318033#318033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 09:05 AM 11/3/2010, you wrote:
>
>Hi Dan,
>I am not familiar with the S704-1 relay. But since nobody else
>answered, I will give it a shot. Polarity of the coil does not
>matter for most relays. If a relay has a built in diode, then
>polarity will matter. You could test the coil with an ohmmeter to
>see if the coil is short circuited with one polarity and not the
>other. Or you could put a small lamp in series with the relay. If
>the lamp gets brighter with one polarity compared to the opposite
>polarity, then there is a built in diode and the correct polarity is
>when the lamp is dim. Or you could power up the relay using a power
>supply with built in short circuit protection and see what
>happens. Or you could call B&C and ask them.
Good put. I'm aware of no commercial-off-the-shelf relays
with built in diodes and only a few contactors with such
devices already installed. If they DO feature internally
wired diodes, the coil terminal polarity will be marked
and the device will probably have some symbolism or
text notification of the feature.
The "S704" is a catalog number for a "T91" style
SPDT relay first defined by Potter-Brumfield as
I recall . . . and later 'cloned' by many others
as popularity of this device soared.
Emacs!
But it's nothing special. Any 12v, 30A, DPDT
relay will do the same job . . . including
this device from Radio Shack
Emacs!
Catalog #275-226. Many of the BigBox auto parts
stores sell similar devices in peg-racked blister-
paks. It might be called a "headlight relay".
But its a sure bet than none will feature built
in diodes. Here's an exemplar part from the
AutoZone website:
http://tinyurl.com/24gobxs
Interestingly enough, AutoZone stocks a pre-terminated
diode assembly that can be added to this or similar
relays:
http://tinyurl.com/2cqrk4q
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Battery contactor versus circuit breaker |
At 08:08 AM 11/3/2010, you wrote:
Without seeing your schematic it sounds like the main cable coming from your
battery pack has no protection on it until it gets to the panel where the
circuit breaker is. Protection of the main battery cable is the reason that
contactors are installed as close to the battery as possible, especially in
installations where the battery is in the back of the plane. That includes
the starter solenoid and master relay.
I'll offer the following expansion of the idea behind
local battery disconnect. It's not so much for "protection"
of any wires as for reduction in probability of post-crash
fire. A powered up electrical system could warm up your
day considerably without damaging a single wire.
A engineer friend of mine at Hawker-Beech used to investigate
accidents involving our products. He once shared an anecdotal
observation suggesting that if the airplane caught fire
after the crash, the battery was most likely still in the
airframe. If it didn't burn, he expected to find the battery
tossed into the woods somewhere.
Obviously not scientific but a valid recognition of the
energy that can be released when a battery is discharged
into the bent-metal products of a crash. Having a pre-crash
procedure that isolates the battery from as much of ship's
wiring as practical goes a long way toward reducing after-crash
hazard.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
> Interestingly enough, AutoZone stocks a pre-terminated
> diode assembly that can be added to this or similar
> relays:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2cqrk4q
Whew!!!! just noted that this part sells for
about $10. Go get your own 1N5402, 75-cent
critters from R-S . . .
Emacs!
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
Joe and Bob,
Thank you for your reply...I found it interesting that the relay had little to
no markings. It came with a sheet that identified a couple of contacts, yet left
the coil to one's imagination. This led me to believe that polarity is not an
issue. Again, thanks Joe for the reply and practicle things to try to make
determinations.
Best wishes, Dan
----- Original Message ----
From: user9253 <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com>
Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 7:05:41 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-16
Hi Dan,
I am not familiar with the S704-1 relay. But since nobody else answered, I will
give it a shot. Polarity of the coil does not matter for most relays. If a
relay has a built in diode, then polarity will matter. You could test the coil
with an ohmmeter to see if the coil is short circuited with one polarity and not
the other. Or you could put a small lamp in series with the relay. If the lamp
gets brighter with one polarity compared to the opposite polarity, then there is
a built in diode and the correct polarity is when the lamp is dim. Or you could
power up the relay using a power supply with built in short circuit protection
and see what happens. Or you could call B&C and ask them.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318027#318027
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
My (final) conclusion on toggle switch failures in my RV-9A.
In a recent Transport Canada Aviation Safety Letter, there is an article
that is relevant to the long debate we had a few years ago about the
failure of toggle switches (specifically Carling brand) in the strobe,
landing and taxi light circuits of our aircraft.
The article is here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca-publications/tp185e_4_2010.pdf
The summary is this: Cessna has issued a mandatory service bulletin to
replace all subject switches used in the landing light as well as the
taxi light and rotating beacon circuits in the 100-, 200- and 300-
series. The FAA issued an SAIB to this effect.
The root cause is that the switches used were not suitable to the
applications. Surge currents are many times (8x) the nominal currents
for lighting loads, well outside the switch ratings. Also, the switches
used did not have DC ratings.
During the aeroelectric debate and Bob`s research of the Carling switch
failures, we found evidence of manufacturing problems, however,
overstressing the switches may be in fact the causal link in the failure
chain. I used inrush current limiters on my landing light circuits
which helps. My strobe switches did not use the limiters and failed
just short of a smoke/fire incident. These switches have no specific DC
rating, although common use is to follow the 115VAC rated current.
Therefore, my next aircraft (HR-II) is not using switches to carry heavy
loads. Instead, it will be using DC-rated relays (with up to 70A DC
rating for resistive loads). These should be adequate for most loads.
The relays are controlled with low-current switches (with gold/silver
contacts).
Thanks,
Vern
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
| Subject: | Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
Thanks for the follow-up on this issue Vern. I am just now preparing to
install toggle switches and also have the Carlings. I am planning to use
relays for the heavy loads but now am wondering if the 20 amp relays that B
and C sells will be up to the task, (if in fact inrush is 8X as you say).
Would the inrush limiters limit it to say 2X or less and if so where does
one buy them?
Bevan
Abbotsford
RV7A wiring
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern
Little
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)
My (final) conclusion on toggle switch failures in my RV-9A.
In a recent Transport Canada Aviation Safety Letter, there is an article
that is relevant to the long debate we had a few years ago about the failure
of toggle switches (specifically Carling brand) in the strobe, landing and
taxi light circuits of our aircraft.
The article is here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca-publications/tp185e_4_2010.pdf
The summary is this: Cessna has issued a mandatory service bulletin to
replace all subject switches used in the landing light as well as the taxi
light and rotating beacon circuits in the 100-, 200- and 300- series. The
FAA issued an SAIB to this effect.
The root cause is that the switches used were not suitable to the
applications. Surge currents are many times (8x) the nominal currents for
lighting loads, well outside the switch ratings. Also, the switches used
did not have DC ratings.
During the aeroelectric debate and Bob`s research of the Carling switch
failures, we found evidence of manufacturing problems, however,
overstressing the switches may be in fact the causal link in the failure
chain. I used inrush current limiters on my landing light circuits which
helps. My strobe switches did not use the limiters and failed just short of
a smoke/fire incident. These switches have no specific DC rating, although
common use is to follow the 115VAC rated current.
Therefore, my next aircraft (HR-II) is not using switches to carry heavy
loads. Instead, it will be using DC-rated relays (with up to 70A DC rating
for resistive loads). These should be adequate for most loads. The relays
are controlled with low-current switches (with gold/silver contacts).
Thanks,
Vern
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net |
I bought relays from NAPA, no diode but they do have resistors in the coil c
ircuit. I don't have the part number with me but can get it.
Tim Andres
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:04 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelec
tric.com> wrote:
> At 09:05 AM 11/3/2010, you wrote:
m>
>>
>> Hi Dan,
>> I am not familiar with the S704-1 relay. But since nobody else answered,
I will give it a shot. Polarity of the coil does not matter for most relay
s. If a relay has a built in diode, then polarity will matter. You could t
est the coil with an ohmmeter to see if the coil is short circuited with one
polarity and not the other. Or you could put a small lamp in series with t
he relay. If the lamp gets brighter with one polarity compared to the oppos
ite polarity, then there is a built in diode and the correct polarity is whe
n the lamp is dim. Or you could power up the relay using a power supply wit
h built in short circuit protection and see what happens. Or you could call
B&C and ask them.
>
> Good put. I'm aware of no commercial-off-the-shelf relays
> with built in diodes and only a few contactors with such
> devices already installed. If they DO feature internally
> wired diodes, the coil terminal polarity will be marked
> and the device will probably have some symbolism or
> text notification of the feature.
>
> The "S704" is a catalog number for a "T91" style
> SPDT relay first defined by Potter-Brumfield as
> I recall . . . and later 'cloned' by many others
> as popularity of this device soared.
>
> <263881f.jpg>
>
> But it's nothing special. Any 12v, 30A, DPDT
> relay will do the same job . . . including
> this device from Radio Shack
>
> <263887d.jpg>
>
> Catalog #275-226. Many of the BigBox auto parts
> stores sell similar devices in peg-racked blister-
> paks. It might be called a "headlight relay".
> But its a sure bet than none will feature built
> in diodes. Here's an exemplar part from the
> AutoZone website:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/24gobxs
>
> Interestingly enough, AutoZone stocks a pre-terminated
> diode assembly that can be added to this or similar
> relays:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2cqrk4q
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ---------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
Hi Vern,
I was just thinking about this thread the other week while hooking up my strobe
power-supply. The unit is a Nova XPAK-604 (IIRC) and I noticed that in the
supplied wiring diagram that they tied the supply lead to the power source w/o
any switches. The unit's operation is then turned on/off by a control signal
via a small guage wire.
I don't recall anybody else mentioning this so I'm bringing it up because I
think it may offer a viable alternative for others that are using this unit.
The install guide is here:
http://www.strobesnmore.com/nova-x-pak-strobe-power-supplies.html
Regards,
/\/elson
~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~
On Wed, 3 Nov 2010, Vern Little wrote:
> My (final) conclusion on toggle switch failures in my RV-9A.
>
> In a recent Transport Canada Aviation Safety Letter, there is an article that
is relevant to the long debate we had a few years ago about the failure of toggle
switches (specifically Carling
> brand) in the strobe, landing and taxi light circuits of our aircraft.
>
> The article is here: http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca-publications/tp185e_4_2010.pdf
>
> The summary is this: Cessna has issued a mandatory service bulletin to replace
all subject switches used in the landing light as well as the taxi light and
rotating beacon circuits in the
> 100-, 200- and 300- series. The FAA issued an SAIB to this effect.
>
> The root cause is that the switches used were not suitable to the applications.
Surge currents are many times (8x) the nominal currents for lighting loads,
well outside the switch ratings.
> Also, the switches used did not have DC ratings.
>
> During the aeroelectric debate and Bob`s research of the Carling switch failures,
we found evidence of manufacturing problems, however, overstressing the switches
may be in fact the causal
> link in the failure chain. I used inrush current limiters on my landing light
circuits which helps. My strobe switches did not use the limiters and failed
just short of a smoke/fire
> incident. These switches have no specific DC rating, although common use is
to follow the 115VAC rated current.
>
> Therefore, my next aircraft (HR-II) is not using switches to carry heavy loads.
Instead, it will be using DC-rated relays (with up to 70A DC rating for resistive
loads). These should be
> adequate for most loads. The relays are controlled with low-current switches
(with gold/silver contacts).
>
> Thanks,
> Vern
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
Relays are cheap, even the 70A ones. They are mostly pin-compatible
with the lower-rated ones.
Both the relays and the limiters are available at Digikey. Search
"automotive relay" and "inrush current limiter".
I tend to use parts from Digikey, even if available at the local Tire
and Hockey shop because of the traceability and datasheet availability.
Vern
From: B Tomm
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:36 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)
Thanks for the follow-up on this issue Vern. I am just now preparing to
install toggle switches and also have the Carlings. I am planning to
use relays for the heavy loads but now am wondering if the 20 amp relays
that B and C sells will be up to the task, (if in fact inrush is 8X as
you say). Would the inrush limiters limit it to say 2X or less and if
so where does one buy them?
Bevan
Abbotsford
RV7A wiring
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern
Little
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)
My (final) conclusion on toggle switch failures in my RV-9A.
In a recent Transport Canada Aviation Safety Letter, there is an article
that is relevant to the long debate we had a few years ago about the
failure of toggle switches (specifically Carling brand) in the strobe,
landing and taxi light circuits of our aircraft.
The article is here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca-publications/tp185e_4_2010.pdf
The summary is this: Cessna has issued a mandatory service bulletin to
replace all subject switches used in the landing light as well as the
taxi light and rotating beacon circuits in the 100-, 200- and 300-
series. The FAA issued an SAIB to this effect.
The root cause is that the switches used were not suitable to the
applications. Surge currents are many times (8x) the nominal currents
for lighting loads, well outside the switch ratings. Also, the switches
used did not have DC ratings.
During the aeroelectric debate and Bob`s research of the Carling switch
failures, we found evidence of manufacturing problems, however,
overstressing the switches may be in fact the causal link in the failure
chain. I used inrush current limiters on my landing light circuits
which helps. My strobe switches did not use the limiters and failed
just short of a smoke/fire incident. These switches have no specific DC
rating, although common use is to follow the 115VAC rated current.
Therefore, my next aircraft (HR-II) is not using switches to carry heavy
loads. Instead, it will be using DC-rated relays (with up to 70A DC
rating for resistive loads). These should be adequate for most loads.
The relays are controlled with low-current switches (with gold/silver
contacts).
Thanks,
Vern
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08:36:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
Thanks for the information. It seems that this is a viable alternative
although I hate being able to shut down a power source in the event of a
fire. A pullable breaker would be a good answer to that.
Vern
--------------------------------------------------
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)
>
>
>
> Hi Vern,
>
> I was just thinking about this thread the other week while hooking up my
> strobe
> power-supply. The unit is a Nova XPAK-604 (IIRC) and I noticed that in
> the
> supplied wiring diagram that they tied the supply lead to the power source
> w/o
> any switches. The unit's operation is then turned on/off by a control
> signal
> via a small guage wire.
>
> I don't recall anybody else mentioning this so I'm bringing it up because
> I
> think it may offer a viable alternative for others that are using this
> unit.
>
> The install guide is here:
>
> http://www.strobesnmore.com/nova-x-pak-strobe-power-supplies.html
>
> Regards,
> /\/elson
>
>
> ~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any
> spring. ~~
>
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010, Vern Little wrote:
>
>> My (final) conclusion on toggle switch failures in my RV-9A.
>>
>> In a recent Transport Canada Aviation Safety Letter, there is an article
>> that is relevant to the long debate we had a few years ago about the
>> failure of toggle switches (specifically Carling
>> brand) in the strobe, landing and taxi light circuits of our aircraft.
>>
>> The article is here:
>> http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca-publications/tp185e_4_2010.pdf
>>
>> The summary is this: Cessna has issued a mandatory service bulletin to
>> replace all subject switches used in the landing light as well as the
>> taxi light and rotating beacon circuits in the
>> 100-, 200- and 300- series. The FAA issued an SAIB to this effect.
>>
>> The root cause is that the switches used were not suitable to the
>> applications. Surge currents are many times (8x) the nominal currents
>> for lighting loads, well outside the switch ratings.
>> Also, the switches used did not have DC ratings.
>>
>> During the aeroelectric debate and Bob`s research of the Carling switch
>> failures, we found evidence of manufacturing problems, however,
>> overstressing the switches may be in fact the causal
>> link in the failure chain. I used inrush current limiters on my landing
>> light circuits which helps. My strobe switches did not use the limiters
>> and failed just short of a smoke/fire
>> incident. These switches have no specific DC rating, although common use
>> is to follow the 115VAC rated current.
>>
>> Therefore, my next aircraft (HR-II) is not using switches to carry heavy
>> loads. Instead, it will be using DC-rated relays (with up to 70A DC
>> rating for resistive loads). These should be
>> adequate for most loads. The relays are controlled with low-current
>> switches (with gold/silver contacts).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Vern
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 08:36:00
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
Just did this last week myself! If you note they still require 18AWG wire as as
minimum for the control lead, which made me think it must have some current on
it. I used a relay to avoid having both leads go all the way forward and then
back.
Tim Andres
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 3, 2010, at 11:05 AM, "David E. Nelson" wrote:
>
>
> Hi Vern,
>
> I was just thinking about this thread the other week while hooking up my strobe
power-supply. The unit is a Nova XPAK-604 (IIRC) and I noticed that in the
supplied wiring diagram that they tied the supply lead to the power source w/o
any switches. The unit's operation is then turned on/off by a control signal
via a small guage wire.
>
> I don't recall anybody else mentioning this so I'm bringing it up because I think
it may offer a viable alternative for others that are using this unit.
>
> The install guide is here:
>
> http://www.strobesnmore.com/nova-x-pak-strobe-power-supplies.html
>
> Regards,
> /\/elson
>
>
> ~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring.
~~
>
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010, Vern Little wrote:
>
>> My (final) conclusion on toggle switch failures in my RV-9A.
>> In a recent Transport Canada Aviation Safety Letter, there is an article that
is relevant to the long debate we had a few years ago about the failure of toggle
switches (specifically Carling
>> brand) in the strobe, landing and taxi light circuits of our aircraft.
>> The article is here: http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca-publications/tp185e_4_2010.pdf
>> The summary is this: Cessna has issued a mandatory service bulletin to replace
all subject switches used in the landing light as well as the taxi light and
rotating beacon circuits in the
>> 100-, 200- and 300- series. The FAA issued an SAIB to this effect.
>> The root cause is that the switches used were not suitable to the applications.
Surge currents are many times (8x) the nominal currents for lighting loads,
well outside the switch ratings. Also, the switches used did not have DC ratings.
>> During the aeroelectric debate and Bob`s research of the Carling switch failures,
we found evidence of manufacturing problems, however, overstressing the
switches may be in fact the causal
>> link in the failure chain. I used inrush current limiters on my landing light
circuits which helps. My strobe switches did not use the limiters and failed
just short of a smoke/fire
>> incident. These switches have no specific DC rating, although common use is
to follow the 115VAC rated current.
>> Therefore, my next aircraft (HR-II) is not using switches to carry heavy loads.
Instead, it will be using DC-rated relays (with up to 70A DC rating for
resistive loads). These should be
>> adequate for most loads. The relays are controlled with low-current switches
(with gold/silver contacts).
>> Thanks,
>> Vern
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fergus Kyle <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 11/01/10 |
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED strips for cabin light
From: James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org>
Gents,
I've been pondering for a while what to do about an inexpensive,
neat
cabin light for my Jodel project. I thought LEDs were the way to go,
and instead of fabricating something, bought something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/24-LED-White-Flexible-Strip-Waterproof-Car-Light-Bulb-
/160500858701#ht_3067wt_1066
It runs straight off the bus, is nice and bright, and was easy
enough
to mount. It's set into a slot in a piece of thin ply, with some
spruce stiffeners each side of the slot, then the ply was covered with
headlining material. It fits really well in the cabin roof. Picture
attached. Forgive the poor quality, but hopefully you can make out
what's going on.
James
James:
My only question is : What the current draw for my poor old Ducati?
No one ever seems to say.....
Cheers
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 11/01/10 |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hi Ferg
"My only question is : What the current draw for my poor old Ducati?
No one ever seems to say....."
Someone gave me a partial string of LEDs in white that looks similar to what you
referenced. I have been mutilating the sealed string to retrieve the individual
LEDs that seem to be about the right color temp, size and brightness for several
panel lighting applications.
Anyway the ones I have have 3 LEDs in series with a resistor (intended to run
off of 12 volts). The 3 series LEDs draw 19 mAs when running off my Odyssey 545.
Thus on my string 24 would be drawing 152mAs or .152 amps. I fooled with bumping
up to 20, 25, 30 and 35 mAs, not much of an increase in brightness.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318081#318081
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-16 Diode relays |
Bob, mid 90s vintage Ford relays all have the internal diode. When
getting a replacement at the auto store I just look at the diagram on
the thing. Most of the time they try to sell me the cheaper one with
no diode. Then I just ask for the more expensive one and shure enough
they always have the diode. There are 4 or 5 of them and they are all
the same part number. NAPA is a good source, but not RS. They are the
traditional 30a things just like we are all famiuliar with and fit a
1/4" female faston.
Comfort is having spares
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-16 Diode relays |
I know the answer must be blindingly obvous but it escapes me. Why have a
diode in the first place, doesn't the relay close regardless of which way
the current is flowing?
Tony
Velocity SEFG 62% done, 78% to go
www.alejandra.net/velocity
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
wilson
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-16 Diode relays
Bob, mid 90s vintage Ford relays all have the internal diode. When
getting a replacement at the auto store I just look at the diagram on
the thing. Most of the time they try to sell me the cheaper one with
no diode. Then I just ask for the more expensive one and shure enough
they always have the diode. There are 4 or 5 of them and they are all
the same part number. NAPA is a good source, but not RS. They are the
traditional 30a things just like we are all famiuliar with and fit a
1/4" female faston.
Comfort is having spares
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Meyers <bobmeyers(at)meyersfamily.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-16 Diode relays |
Voltage spike suppression.
Bob posted a document a few weeks ago about the how and why of spike
suppression. Here is the link.
http://tinyurl.com/25wjo7w
Bob Meyers
Flight Testing Sonex N982SX Web Site Index http://N982SX.com
On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:58 PM, Tony Babb wrote:
> >
>
> I know the answer must be blindingly obvous but it escapes me. Why
> have a
> diode in the first place, doesn't the relay close regardless of
> which way
> the current is flowing?
>
> Tony
> Velocity SEFG 62% done, 78% to go
> www.alejandra.net/velocity
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> paul
> wilson
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:20 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-16 Diode relays
>
>
> Bob, mid 90s vintage Ford relays all have the internal diode. When
> getting a replacement at the auto store I just look at the diagram on
> the thing. Most of the time they try to sell me the cheaper one with
> no diode. Then I just ask for the more expensive one and shure enough
> they always have the diode. There are 4 or 5 of them and they are all
> the same part number. NAPA is a good source, but not RS. They are the
> traditional 30a things just like we are all famiuliar with and fit a
> 1/4" female faston.
> Comfort is having spares
>
> Paul
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor versus circuit breaker |
| From: | "mmayfield" <mmayfield(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Noel,
on a couple of photos I've seen of what I believe is a similar setup (and on this
same plane type), the batt c/b was located right next to the battery where
one might otherwise find a battery contactor on other types, thus it would seem
to offer supply wire protection.
The schematic is exceedingly simple: Batt, to batt c/b, to master switch, to bus.
All in a straight line.
I guess I'm enquiring as to the relative wisdom of this type of main supply-wire
protection versus using a contactor. Bear in mind that it's a very simple electrical
system in either case.
If I'm reading what Bob wrote correctly, he is saying that a contactor allows virtual
complete isolation of the battery in an emergency and consequent reduction
of hazard/risk, and thus might be preferable to a non-accessible battery circuit
breaker in even such a simple system with a low power alternator as this.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318106#318106
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
| From: | "tomcostanza" <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com> |
Vern,
How did you mount the current limiters?
-Tom
--------
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318107#318107
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor versus circuit breaker |
>
>If I'm reading what Bob wrote correctly, he is saying that a
>contactor allows virtual complete isolation of the battery in an
>emergency and consequent reduction of hazard/risk, and thus might be
>preferable to a non-accessible battery circuit breaker in even such
>a simple system with a low power alternator as this
Correct. But if you're considering a pullable C/B as the
battery disconnect device, do you also intend to crank an
engine through this 'switch'? That takes a BIG breaker
and is generally pretty bulky and expensive and serves
so useful purpose for the 'protection' of wires.
Battery and cranking circuits on light aircraft do not
generally get protection from overload. Hence, you do
not find protective devices in this service on any
certified aircraft and exceedingly few OBAM aircraft.
In fact, the FARs speak specifically to this issue
and relieve the designer of adding any such 'protection'.
But crew accessible battery disconnect is another matter.
Many airplanes of yesteryear used the hand operated
switch. A TriPacer I took dual instruction in had the
battery under the passenger seat . . . batter switch
was on the closeout behind the pilots calves as was
a manual push button for the starter. Battery contactors
became useful when batteries were remotely located.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
In my case, I had a terminal block that handled all of the wing wiring
connections. I mounted them there using fast-on connections soldered to the
device. They can be anywhere in series with the lights. Don't use them for
the strobe supply!
They will affect the intensity of wig-wag lights, however. Since they limit
the inrush current it takes longer for the lamps to heat up to maximum
brightness. My fix was to open up the wig-wag flasher and replace the
electrolytic capacitor with a larger value, slowing the flash rate down.
V
--------------------------------------------------
From: "tomcostanza" <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:46 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)
>
>
> Vern,
>
> How did you mount the current limiters?
>
> -Tom
>
> --------
> Clear Skies,
> Tom Costanza
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318107#318107
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 08:36:00
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Bob said:
> I'm aware of no commercial-off-the-shelf relays
> with built in diodes and only a few contactors with such
> devices already installed.
Check out http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/relays.asp. They have several ice cube types w/diode, of varying capacity.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318127#318127
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hamer" <s.hamer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
Why not for the strobe supply? Are you speaking of the fast-on's or the
terminal block? Just curious.
Steve
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)
> <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
>
> In my case, I had a terminal block that handled all of the wing wiring
> connections. I mounted them there using fast-on connections soldered to
> the device. They can be anywhere in series with the lights. Don't use
> them for the strobe supply!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
| From: | Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com> |
My fix was to open up the wig-wag flasher and replace the electrolytic
> capacitor with a larger value, slowing the flash rate down.
>
> V
>
>
Vern,
I thought my flasher (from B&C) was a little fast. How difficult was it to
open up? Can you give me an idea of what capacitor I'll find when I open it
up and what type and spread of capacitors to try out to slow down the
flashing?
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
You should only find one capacitor. It's a metal can with a plastic
case. Try doubling the capacitance (in microfarads). It's not
critical.
You can just pry open the bottom to release the tabs and slide the cover
off.
Vern
From: Andrew Zachar
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)
My fix was to open up the wig-wag flasher and replace the
electrolytic capacitor with a larger value, slowing the flash rate down.
V
Vern,
I thought my flasher (from B&C) was a little fast. How difficult was it
to open up? Can you give me an idea of what capacitor I'll find when I
open it up and what type and spread of capacitors to try out to slow
down the flashing?
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08:42:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
No, I was referring to the inrush current limiters.
V
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Hamer" <s.hamer(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)
>
>
> Why not for the strobe supply? Are you speaking of the fast-on's or the
> terminal block? Just curious.
>
> Steve
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 7:36 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)
>
>> <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
>>
>> In my case, I had a terminal block that handled all of the wing wiring
>> connections. I mounted them there using fast-on connections soldered to
>> the device. They can be anywhere in series with the lights. Don't use
>> them for the strobe supply!
>>
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 08:42:00
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
Another thought I had to tweek the flash rate would be to play with theRC t
ime =0Aconstant. Could try adding a larger resistor as well. Google it and
you will get =0Aa good amount of info.=0ADan=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________
________________=0AFrom: Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: ae
roelectric-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thu, November 4, 2010 10:20:31 AM=0AS
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise)=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A-My fix was to open up the wig-wag flasher and replace the electrol
ytic =0Acapacitor with a larger value, slowing the flash rate down.=0A>=0A>
V=0A>=0A>=0AVern, =0A=0AI thought my flasher (from B&C) was a little fast.
How difficult was it to open =0Aup? Can you give me an idea of what capacit
or I'll find when I open it up and =0Awhat type and spread of capacitors to
try out to slow down the flashing?=0A=0A-- =0AAndrew Zachar=0Aandrew.d.zac
================ =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switch Failure (reprise) |
| From: | Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)GMAIL.COM> |
> Another thought I had to tweek the flash rate would be to play with the RC
> time constant. Could try adding a larger resistor as well. Google it and you
> will get a good amount of info.
> Dan
I've spent a lot of time looking at 555 timer circuits about flashing.
The motivation to open the flasher up and start poking around came
from Vern's successful completion of that task.
When I can get around to it, I'll try to capture my experiment and let
everyone know how it goes.
-az
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Adding crowbar to older Z-11 architecture |
| From: | "lance553" <lance553(at)gmail.com> |
I have been flying for several years with Z-11 (no alternator OV disc. contactor)
and an internally regulated alternator. I would like to know whether the simple
and inexpensive step of installing a crowbar OV module as in Z-24 will provide
OV protection. I have read Bob's article on load dump damage and I am able
to turn off my alternator with the panel "OFF/BATT/ON" switch.
My thanks to Bob or anyone else who can answer my question.
Lance
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318171#318171
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor versus circuit breaker |
| From: | "mmayfield" <mmayfield(at)ozemail.com.au> |
No Bob, the engine is an air-start engine. The start sequence is nothing more than
energising a booster coil and opening a solenoid valve for about 2 seconds
to allow the compressed air in. Starter contactors and cranking currents don't
exist on this plane.
It really sounds from what I'm reading that a battery contactor is the more desirable
and "elegant" solution from a number of different aspects, rather than
a circuit breaker purely serving as "automatic" battery wiring protection.
I know the diagram was only ever intended as a very rough guide for the builder,
but I can only speculate why it was drawn with a breaker on the supply side
instead of a battery contactor.
regards,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318179#318179
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists
are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for
my your Contributions during this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a big difference and keeps all of the Matronics
Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pestar" <peter(at)reivernet.com> |
Go to http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/relays, they have a range of relays with the diode built in at low cost. I am using them for OV protection as per Bobs diagrams.
Yep I know it is down under but the relays are manufactured in Europe.
Cheers
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New zealand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318289#318289
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor versus circuit breaker |
>
>It really sounds from what I'm reading that a battery contactor is
>the more desirable and "elegant" solution from a number of different
>aspects, rather than a circuit breaker purely serving as "automatic"
>battery wiring protection.
>
>I know the diagram was only ever intended as a very rough guide for
>the builder, but I can only speculate why it was drawn with a
>breaker on the supply side instead of a battery contactor.
Most folks skilled at airframe and power plants
are not widely read or experienced in electrical
systems. While suggested architectures and diagrams
are always functional at some level, they almost
never embody the best we know how to do nor are
they tailored to the builder's mission profile and
design goals.
It's not uncommon to find 'suggestions' that really
stretch the imagination of the reader to deduce
the simple-ideas that support the feature's
incorporation.
Whether or not to go the contactor route is driven
by two major considerations. Location of the switching
device for convenience of operation and/or power
savings when the engine driven power source or
battery size is small. A 0.8A contactor current draw
is no big deal when a 60A alternator is keeping
the lights lit. But when the alternator is good
for say 8A or you're trying to extend battery-only
operations, elimination of a contactor has benefits.
So it isn't a one-size-fits-all thought exercise.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold Lanfear" <hlanfear(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection |
I=92m following Bob=92s Z-13/20 circuit and ready to install the 14 AWG
fusible link in the 10 AWG feed to the Battery Buss. However, there are
no crimp connectors matching both sizes; can I solder this joint or are
there better ways? I don=92t have spade and socket terminals to match
and hate to make a purchase for just a couple of terminals. Thanks much.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection |
| From: | "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil> |
Harold -
You have several acceptable options. Among them:
1. Solder the 10-ga to 14-ga junctions, support with heat-shrink & cover
with fiberglass tube.
2. Strip the 14-ga wire back twice as far as you normally would and fold
the stripped end back on itself to better fill the 10-ga crimp connector.
Heat-shrink and fiberglass tube as indicated in AEC.
neal
===================
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harold
Lanfear
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:26 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection
I'm following Bob's Z-13/20 circuit and ready to install the 14 AWG fusible
link in the 10 AWG feed to the Battery Buss. However, there are no crimp
connectors matching both sizes; can I solder this joint or are there better
ways? I don't have spade and socket terminals to match and hate to make a
purchase for just a couple of terminals. Thanks much.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Toggle Switch Failures in Canadian C-152 |
The C-152 switches cited in the Canadian publication
have nothing in common with the failures we've been
discussing here on the List in recent years . . .
The failure modes we've considered have to do
with a riveted construction of the Carling switches
that have been used on light airplanes for about
50 years. We've also considered some poor joining
(crimps) in the wire grips of terminals.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/Carling/Carling_F-series.pdf
Over time, something has changed in materials,
design or process that make these devices more vulnerable
to loss of contact between the various metallic
joints in the current carrying path. All of the
numbered features in this figure . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Toggle_Switch_with_Fast-On_Tabs.jpg
A number of readers have reported failures in
Carling switches with most occurring in the one
circuit that generally operates at significant
current flow all the time for day and night
operations . . . strobes.
The failures have generally demonstrated
a rise in joint resistance followed by heating
exacerbated precipitation of the failure . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Anatomy_of_a_Switch_Failure/Anatomy_of_a_Switch_Failure.html
The C-152 switches referenced in the article are
are smaller and a cut below the Carling, F-series
switches we've been discussing. I'm familiar with
them but do not know who made them. They ARE a much
less expensive switch but I don't recall that they
used the riveted construction common to the F-series
Carlings. I believe the construction of these switches
looks more like this:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Miniature_Rocker_Cutaway.jpg
No rivets, only a pair of moving contacts that
get the benefit of some sliding motion that
tends to improve contact performance compared
to contacts that are simply mashed together. It's
interesting that this design REDUCES number of
metallic joints in current path from 10 down to
5. Pretty slick little switch.
I captured the Canadian failure analysis
and started to sift if for salient data and
conclusions.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/C152_landing_light_switch_failures.pdf
This document is only a small cut above the typical
dark-n-stormy night story found in legacy aviation
rags. These guys did a electron microscope and
spectrometer analysis of the gooey stuff on the
switch to decide that it was probably dust and
drippings from a fitting on the oil pressure gage above.
Availability and applications of whippy tools
does not automatically translate into better
conclusions and remedial actions. As soon as
the writer mentioned "no DC ratings", commented
on circuit breaker performance, and iced the
cake with recommendations for a 70A rated panel
mounted switch, the value of their subsequent analysis
stepped off into the weeds. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Switch_Ratings.pdf
The effects have rippled throughout the aviation
community.
http://www.cessna.org/public/saib/docs/saib-ce-09-42.pdf
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/download/file.php?id=1199&sid=8c7275731a2108c3bdd961d763760192
http://n631s.blogspot.com/2009/09/landing-light-switches.html
Bottom line was that the switches used in these
applications (whether the C-150/152 mini rockers
or the larger Carling F series) have a SERVICE LIFE
that is driven more by CHRONOLOGICAL AGE and ENVIRONMENTAL
CONDITIONS (dripping oil, dust, moisture, etc) combined
with a LACK OF ACTIVITY that tends to burn away corrosion
and contaminants.
Would the failure have been prevented by installation
of a superswitch?
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Toggle_Switch_with_Mold-Captured_Terminals.jpg
It might have taken longer . . . but the switch would eventually
wear out and need replacement. The mode of failure would
probably have been less exciting. But these switches
are 10x the price of the devices used in tens of thousands
of production airplanes with a very low rate of spectacular
failures.
Light GA aircraft place unusual demands on switches. I've
been suggesting for nearly 20 years that the OBAM aircraft
owner/operator simply shotgun a new set of switches into
the airplane every 5 years or so. Costs $50 in parts
and a couple hours work. Can't do that on a TC aircraft
for less than an indentured servant contract on your
first born. Nonetheless, the spectacular failure of this 20+
year old switch covered with greasy dust was determined
to be "inadequate to the design".
For every one that HAS failed, there are thousands
of switches that have NOT failed. I personally witnessed
extensive "life cycle testing" of new switches in
Cessna's lab . . . a landing light was switched on/off
for thousands of times before any new switch was considered
"adequate to the design". But like all laboratory
testing adventures, stresses on the device during
testing had little relevancy to stresses experienced
in service.
Just how did these investigators EXPECT a switch
to fail? Some switches may fail passive but quite
often, they get hot and smell bad. This report
suggests that a device "adequate to the design"
would last until the airframe was scrapped or at
least not get hot and smell bad. Sorry my friend
but it just doesn't work that way.
Bottom line is that the vast majority of switch
failures being reported to those-who-know-more-about-
airplanes-than-we-do have reached end of life never
fully explored and recognized by the appropriate
recommendations in a service manual. The report was
also noteworthy in citing lack of maintenance
that did not at least clean up and fix leaks of
oil above the switch that most certainly exacerbated
an otherwise "normal" failure.
Well guess what? Cessna responded in the only way
they COULD. Limit service life to the high current
switches to FOUR years . . . not flight hours but
calendar service life. Something that could and
should have happened 30 years ago.
How should WE react to this? Periodic replacement
of highly stressed switches is a good idea. Cheap,
easy, effective. Also, fix oil drips and clean up the
mess . . . but YOU guys do that anyhow . . . right?
Use relays to buffer the current demands on panel
mounted switches? Good . . . but it drives up
parts count and cost of ownership. The switch
WILL probably run to life of the airframe while
you still do periodic replacement of relays.
A simple, low cost preventative maintenance program
based on understanding is the best way to keep
these things from happening in your airplane . . .
like periodic replacement of highly stressed switches.
Having said all that, know that the failures we've
discussed recently about switches and terminals used
to wire those switches are a completely separate
set of events and solutions unrelated to the Canadian
activity that seeded this thread.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection |
At 09:26 AM 11/5/2010, you wrote:
>I'm following Bob's Z-13/20 circuit and ready to install the 14 AWG
>fusible link in the 10 AWG feed to the Battery Buss. However, there
>are no crimp connectors matching both sizes; can I solder this joint
>or are there better ways? I don't have spade and socket terminals
>to match and hate to make a purchase for just a couple of
>terminals. Thanks much.
Suggest you use a MAX 30 fuse and
mating in-line fuse holder
Emacs!
available from most big-box auto parts
stores.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection |
NAPA is now selling the kind Bob likes. They have the double metal
that allows the insulation to be crimped. You need to crimp twice to
get both the wire and the insulation. They pass my pull test and grab
the 1/4" spade plenty hard. Try them before you buy the AMP ones. So
far just red and blue not yellow where I live. Check your store If
they have the yellow you will be good to go with a little heat shrink.
Maybe Bob will give us and evaluation?? HINT.
Paul
==============
At 07:26 AM 11/5/2010, you wrote:
>I'm following Bob's Z-13/20 circuit and ready to install the 14 AWG
>fusible link in the 10 AWG feed to the Battery Buss. However, there
>are no crimp connectors matching both sizes; can I solder this joint
>or are there better ways? I don't have spade and socket terminals
>to match and hate to make a purchase for just a couple of
>terminals. Thanks much.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection |
At 12:02 PM 11/5/2010, you wrote:
>
>NAPA is now selling the kind Bob likes. They have the double metal
>that allows the insulation to be crimped. You need to crimp twice to
>get both the wire and the insulation. They pass my pull test and
>grab the 1/4" spade plenty hard. Try them before you buy the AMP
>ones. So far just red and blue not yellow where I live. Check your
>store If they have the yellow you will be good to go with a little heat shrink.
>
>Maybe Bob will give us and evaluation?? HINT.
Hmmmm . . . do you have a manufacturer and part
number by chance? We might be able to learn a
lot from the manufacturer's data.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adding crowbar to older Z-11 architecture |
At 04:33 PM 11/4/2010, you wrote:
>
>I have been flying for several years with Z-11 (no alternator OV
>disc. contactor) and an internally regulated alternator. I would
>like to know whether the simple and inexpensive step of installing a
>crowbar OV module as in Z-24 will provide OV protection. I have read
>Bob's article on load dump damage and I am able to turn off my
>alternator with the panel "OFF/BATT/ON" switch.
>My thanks to Bob or anyone else who can answer my question.
The problem with adding ov protection for internally
regulated alternators is that there are failure modes
that cannot be controlled through the small wire.
So yes, some form of b-lead disconnect is called for
and Z-24 is one way to go about it. The load dump
thing is a bit of a red herring . . . first, there's
no NEED to flip the alternator on/off during normal,
loaded operations. Second, any IR alternator worth
it's salt will withstand a worst case load dump
many times in a row. See revision 12 chapter on
engine driven power sources in the 'Connection.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection |
I am 1000 miles away from my shop, but I have a package of the new
style butt connectors in my truck. NAPA P/N 784331. They are reds
tranlucent plastic and have the extra metal extension. I use several
rachet crimpers and they all give a good result with these things.
Takes 2 crimps with my crimpers to grab theinsulation.
Branded by Balkamp (a NAPA house brand). Made In Taiwan
The other stuff in my truck are the cheepe 3M automotive stuff you
are fanmiliar with and they will not grab the insulation. However
they do give the soild crimp like your AMP tests.
Mabe the attached pic will reveal something?
At 11:17 AM 11/5/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>At 12:02 PM 11/5/2010, you wrote:
>>
>>NAPA is now selling the kind Bob likes. They have the double metal
>>that allows the insulation to be crimped. You need to crimp twice
>>to get both the wire and the insulation. They pass my pull test and
>>grab the 1/4" spade plenty hard. Try them before you buy the AMP
>>ones. So far just red and blue not yellow where I live. Check your
>>store If they have the yellow you will be good to go with a little heat shrink.
>>
>>Maybe Bob will give us and evaluation?? HINT.
>
> Hmmmm . . . do you have a manufacturer and part
> number by chance? We might be able to learn a
> lot from the manufacturer's data.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Covering up the contactors |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Gents,
I have three contactors mounted on the engine side of the firewall,
along with a battery. Everything else (regulator, busses, etc.) is
inside the cabin. Is there any value in covering up my contactors, or
are they alright as they are?
Many thanks,
James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering up the contactors |
At 08:01 PM 11/5/2010, you wrote:
>
>Gents,
>
>I have three contactors mounted on the engine side of the firewall,
>along with a battery. Everything else (regulator, busses, etc.) is
>inside the cabin. Is there any value in covering up my contactors, or
>are they alright as they are?
Here's the firewall of an A36 Bonanza.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/A36_Firewall_A.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/A36_Firewall_B.jpg
with contactors, fuseblocks, current limiters, etc
hung out in behind Continental and everybody.
I think your electro-whizzies will be fine without
extra-ordinary cover.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection |
At 06:30 PM 11/5/2010, you wrote:
>I am 1000 miles away from my shop, but I have a package of the new
>style butt connectors in my truck. NAPA P/N 784331. They are reds
>tranlucent plastic and have the extra metal extension. I use several
>rachet crimpers and they all give a good result with these things.
>Takes 2 crimps with my crimpers to grab theinsulation.
>Branded by Balkamp (a NAPA house brand). Made In Taiwan
>
>The other stuff in my truck are the cheepe 3M automotive stuff you
>are fanmiliar with and they will not grab the insulation. However
>they do give the soild crimp like your AMP tests.
>Mabe the attached pic will reveal something?
Hmmm . . . are these normally stocked in the stores
or do they have to order them in? Are they available
in less than full box lots?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection |
Stock item in Durango CO store. Stock from the Albuerque warehouse.
Find then on the shelf. no need to ask at the desk.
Paul
=====
At 06:37 AM 11/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>At 06:30 PM 11/5/2010, you wrote:
>>I am 1000 miles away from my shop, but I have a package of the new
>>style butt connectors in my truck. NAPA P/N 784331. They are reds
>>tranlucent plastic and have the extra metal extension. I use
>>several rachet crimpers and they all give a good result with these
>>things. Takes 2 crimps with my crimpers to grab theinsulation.
>>Branded by Balkamp (a NAPA house brand). Made In Taiwan
>>
>>The other stuff in my truck are the cheepe 3M automotive stuff you
>>are fanmiliar with and they will not grab the insulation. However
>>they do give the soild crimp like your AMP tests.
>>Mabe the attached pic will reveal something?
>
> Hmmm . . . are these normally stocked in the stores
> or do they have to order them in? Are they available
> in less than full box lots?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink Link 14/10 AWG connection |
At 09:12 AM 11/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>Stock item in Durango CO store. Stock from the Albuerque warehouse.
>Find then on the shelf. no need to ask at the desk.
>Paul
I'll see if I can pick some up. I'm going to Wichita
tonight.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | instrument ground loops? |
| From: | "eb" <eb(at)civsoft.com> |
My radio, transponder and EFIS each have continuity between their respective ground
wire and their external case--this is normal AFAIK. But each case is attached
to an aluminum instrument panel, which is connected to a steel airframe.
Can you say ground loops? (the instrument ground wires connect to a lug on
the airframe). This creates 3 ground loops approximately 2' long each. Is this
a problem--in terms of radio noise or interference?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318402#318402
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: instrument ground loops? |
At 08:17 PM 11/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>My radio, transponder and EFIS each have continuity between their
>respective ground wire and their external case--this is normal
>AFAIK. But each case is attached to an aluminum instrument panel,
>which is connected to a steel airframe. Can you say ground
>loops? (the instrument ground wires connect to a lug on the
>airframe). This creates 3 ground loops approximately 2' long
>each. Is this a problem--in terms of radio noise or interference?
Not if you don't hear any noise. Just because there ARE
multiple ground paths giving rise to potential coupling
of noise between antagonist and victim doesn't automatically
say it's going to happen . . . only that the risks are higher.
The drawings that configure a legacy TC aircraft's ground
wires many have been revised many times over the years
to deal with specific issues . . . and there may still
be potential issues.
The best action right now is to commend you for being
attentive to the risk which will give rise to
closer scrutiny when you start firing things up. Chances
are pretty good that you won't have any problems. If you
DO, then there are orderly ways to deduce "death by
Col. Mustard in the library with a knife".
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
| Subject: | instrument ground loops? |
Bob,
Sort of related...
My LR3C voltage regulator has surprisingly large mounting holes. 5/16 IIRC.
Is this because there should be an isolation washer to prevent the bolts and
case from touching the metal mounting surface? I don't have any bolts with
such a large diameter and so short of grip length. I was considering
drilling for #8 screws in between the factory holes until I saw this thread.
Bevan
RV7A
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: instrument ground loops?
-->
At 08:17 PM 11/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>My radio, transponder and EFIS each have continuity between their
>respective ground wire and their external case--this is normal
>AFAIK. But each case is attached to an aluminum instrument panel,
>which is connected to a steel airframe. Can you say ground loops?
>(the instrument ground wires connect to a lug on the airframe). This
>creates 3 ground loops approximately 2' long each. Is this a
>problem--in terms of radio noise or interference?
Not if you don't hear any noise. Just because there ARE
multiple ground paths giving rise to potential coupling
of noise between antagonist and victim doesn't automatically
say it's going to happen . . . only that the risks are higher.
The drawings that configure a legacy TC aircraft's ground
wires many have been revised many times over the years
to deal with specific issues . . . and there may still
be potential issues.
The best action right now is to commend you for being
attentive to the risk which will give rise to
closer scrutiny when you start firing things up. Chances
are pretty good that you won't have any problems. If you
DO, then there are orderly ways to deduce "death by
Col. Mustard in the library with a knife".
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor versus circuit breaker |
To begin with regardless of the protective device protection is downstream
from the battery after the protection. So in fact the safest thing to do
would be to have the protection actually built into the battery. That not
being available the next best thing is to put the protection device next to
the battery. Cessna for one actually puts the protection right on the
outside of the battery box on the C-180, C-185. The advantage of using a
relay is that if you see a hard landing coming your way you can with the
flick of a switch (on the panel) you can isolate a remote installed battery.
With a circuit breaker in the same location it would require a short to
cause the breaker to open... That could be the spark you really wouldn't
want.
I've always seen the main cable for the starter come directly off the
battery to a very close solenoid ( another relay) then from the solenoid to
the starter. As Bob mentioned last week this doesn't give you any
protection from the solenoid jamming closed which aside leaving the heavy
cable to the starter energized but it would also cause the starter to run
continuously to destruction with no method of shut down. I have seen bendix
units with integral solenoids jam in cars but never the remote solenoid but
it's worth considering what bob mentioned and if you have a master relay
that can handle the current of the starter it would be a good idea to wire
the starter through it as an additional method of stopping the starter if
the starter solenoid jams closed.
So in short you are reading Bob correctly.
BTW you should also have a breaker or at least a switch between the
generator and the panel. In the event of an impending accident battery
isolation is a great thing to have.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mmayfield
Sent: November 4, 2010 7:34 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery contactor versus circuit breaker
Noel,
on a couple of photos I've seen of what I believe is a similar setup (and on
this same plane type), the batt c/b was located right next to the battery
where one might otherwise find a battery contactor on other types, thus it
would seem to offer supply wire protection.
The schematic is exceedingly simple: Batt, to batt c/b, to master switch,
to bus. All in a straight line.
I guess I'm enquiring as to the relative wisdom of this type of main
supply-wire protection versus using a contactor. Bear in mind that it's a
very simple electrical system in either case.
If I'm reading what Bob wrote correctly, he is saying that a contactor
allows virtual complete isolation of the battery in an emergency and
consequent reduction of hazard/risk, and thus might be preferable to a
non-accessible battery circuit breaker in even such a simple system with a
low power alternator as this.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318106#318106
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering up the contactors |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Thanks for that Bob. Even after a couple of years on the firewall in
the hangar, the contactors are already quite dull. They're not
corroded, as I put some Vaseline (petroleum grease) on them and the
various connections.
That Bonanza certainly looks pristine! Is there a trick to keeping
everything so sparkling?
James
On 6 November 2010 05:04, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
>
>
> At 08:01 PM 11/5/2010, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Gents,
>>
>> I have three contactors mounted on the engine side of the firewall,
>> along with a battery. Everything else (regulator, busses, etc.) is
>> inside the cabin. Is there any value in covering up my contactors, or
>> are they alright as they are?
>
> Here's the firewall of an A36 Bonanza.
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/A36_Firewall_A.jpg
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/A36_Firewall_B.jpg
>
> with contactors, fuseblocks, current limiters, etc
> hung out in behind Continental and everybody.
> I think your electro-whizzies will be fine without
> extra-ordinary cover.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | instrument ground loops? |
At 11:53 PM 11/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Sort of related...
>
>My LR3C voltage regulator has surprisingly large mounting holes. 5/16 IIRC.
>Is this because there should be an isolation washer to prevent the bolts and
>case from touching the metal mounting surface? I don't have any bolts with
>such a large diameter and so short of grip length. I was considering
>drilling for #8 screws in between the factory holes until I saw this thread.
Good question . . .
The footprint for the LR series regulators was
cloned from a series of production regulators
and I don't even remember now who's devices . . .
They were commonly mounted on nut plates but with #8
hardware and flat washers. I don't know why they would
choose to do this other than to have a lot of tolerance
for hole locations on the mounting plate. You can drill
new holes or put washers under the heads of smaller screws.
In about 25 years and thousands of sold units, you're
the first I can recall that noticed and asked the
question. I think it was a Lamar footprint and we simply
cloned it with the idea of making it a drop-in replacement.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering up the contactors |
At 12:37 PM 11/7/2010, you wrote:
Thanks for that Bob. Even after a couple of years on the firewall in
the hangar, the contactors are already quite dull. They're not
corroded, as I put some Vaseline (petroleum grease) on them and the
various connections.
That Bonanza certainly looks pristine! Is there a trick to keeping
everything so sparkling?
I took that on the production line . . . so it's a sure
bet that the 'shine' goes away after a few years. But
shine doesn't help the electrons get from point-A to
point-B. The gas tight joint and designing switching
devices to meet service life in the proposed application
side steps the lack of luster.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re:battery location change |
Good Evening Bob
I have the 2 alternator , 2 batteries, setup in my Glasair. this has been a
problem free system since it's inception. I am needing to change the location
of the batteries for weitht and balance and interference problems. Currently
the batteries and the all the control solenoids are on the engine side of the
firewall with 2 power and 1 gnd thru the firewall connections. Do I need to add
2 more thru the firewall connections to get the power back out to the solenoids
from the repositioned batteries or is there a more efficient way to reconfigure
the system. I am not at home so I can't consult the original diagram. Thanks
as always for your expert help in these matters.
Jim
James Robinson
Glasairlll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re:battery location change |
Hi Bob,
Do you have a protection circuit to protect against regulator-rectifier
failure for the PM alternator as used on the Jabiru 3300? I have installed
the OV crowbar circuit but does this stop voltage excess say 15-20V? I am
getting interference affecting the ECU as I have fuel injected the engine. I
will test the Vreg output in a couple of days but need to be sure I have
this protection if possible anyway.
Thanks
Peter
Quickie Q-200Jabiru
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher. |
| From: | Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com> |
Good morning, everyone.
The last time I had my B&C flasher hooked up, I thought it was a little
fast. I did some experimentation over the weekend, and I thought I would
share my results.
A post on the this list last week made me think it would be much easier to
fix than I thought. Vern: "My fix was to open up the wig-wag flasher and
replace the electrolytic capacitor with a larger value, slowing the flash
rate down."
After eagerly writing Vern back, he elaborated, "You should only find one
capacitor. It's a metal can with a plastic case. Try doubling the
capacitance (in microfarads). It's not critical.
You can just pry open the bottom to release the tabs and slide the cover
off."
Sweet. I went outside and got to work.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-007-large.jpg
The cover was surprisingly easy to pry off.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-008-large.jpg
There's the capacitor, on the upper left. Let's see, this is a 4.7 =B5F
capacitor.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-009-large.jpg
I'll go by a 10=B5F and 20=B5F to try out.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-013-large.jpg
I fired up my (new, because I polished the old one's tip for devinyling
help) soldering gun and heated up the solder on the back of the board enoug
h
to pull the old capacitor out.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-014-large.jpg
Sweet. That was easier than I thought it would be.
Here's the 10=B5F capacitor installed.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-015-large.jpg
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-016-large.jpg
Not great, but not terrible either. (My first REAL soldering.)
So, I put the thing back together and fired it up.
This is the fast version, from my previous post with the 4.7 uF capacitor..
.
http://videos.videopress.com/h02JJyop/20101020_hd.mp4
And with the 10 uF capacitor...
http://videos.videopress.com/kxRChhjU/20101107-002_hd.mp4
I used an online "beat-tapper" (http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm) to
calculate the old flash rate (85 Hz, from light 1 on to light 1 on again)
and the new flash rate (45 Hz).
I like 45 Hz. I'm thinking I might try the 20=B5F version, just to see how
slow it is. But, I'm calling this a huge success. (Thanks Vern, for showing
me how easy this would be.)
(I'm giving up on the flashing of the 4 MR16 HIDs in the wingtip. I think
I'm going to use steady HID leading edge landing lights, and flash my taxi
lights (which may still end up in the wingtips.))
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re:battery location change |
Jim,
How far back are you moving the batteries? You may want to move the
solenoids along with the batteries so as not to compromise the
protection of the fat wires, afforded by the solenoids. Then you will
need to bring 2 fat wires back to the original connections, for +12V and
ground.
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: James Robinson
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 12:05 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re:battery location change
Good Evening Bob
I have the 2 alternator , 2 batteries, setup in my Glasair. this has
been a problem free system since it's inception. I am needing to change
the location of the batteries for weitht and balance and interference
problems. Currently the batteries and the all the control solenoids are
on the engine side of the firewall with 2 power and 1 gnd thru the
firewall connections. Do I need to add 2 more thru the firewall
connections to get the power back out to the solenoids from the
repositioned batteries or is there a more efficient way to reconfigure
the system. I am not at home so I can't consult the original diagram.
Thanks as always for your expert help in these matters.
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher. |
Depending on exactly where this is mounted, you might want to use a glob
of RTV to stabilize the capacitor against vibration. I am surprised
that they didn't use any on the original, although if this is a car
flasher, I suppose they assumed it would be mounted in a low vibration
environment under the dash.
Dick Tasker
P.S. Your soldering looks fine!
Andrew Zachar wrote:
>
> Good morning, everyone.
>
>
> The last time I had my B&C flasher hooked up, I thought it was a
> little fast. I did some experimentation over the weekend, and I
> thought I would share my results.
>
> A post on the this list last week made me think it would be much
> easier to fix than I thought. Vern: "My fix was to open up the wig-wag
> flasher and replace the electrolytic capacitor with a larger value,
> slowing the flash rate down."
>
>
> After eagerly writing Vern back, he elaborated, "You should only find
> one capacitor. It's a metal can with a plastic case. Try doubling the
> capacitance (in microfarads). It's not critical.
>
> You can just pry open the bottom to release the tabs and slide the
> cover off."
>
> Sweet. I went outside and got to work.
>
> http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-007-large.jpg
>
> The cover was surprisingly easy to pry off.
>
>
> http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-008-large.jpg
>
>
> There's the capacitor, on the upper left. Let's see, this is a 4.7 F
> capacitor.
>
>
> http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-009-large.jpg
>
>
> I'll go by a 10F and 20F to try out.
>
>
> http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-013-large.jpg
>
>
> I fired up my (new, because I polished the old one's tip for
> devinyling help) soldering gun and heated up the solder on the back of
> the board enough to pull the old capacitor out.
>
> http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-014-large.jpg
>
>
> Sweet. That was easier than I thought it would be.
>
> Here's the 10F capacitor installed.
>
>
> http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-015-large.jpg
>
> http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-016-large.jpg
>
> Not great, but not terrible either. (My first REAL soldering.)
>
> So, I put the thing back together and fired it up.
>
> This is the fast version, from my previous post with the 4.7 uF
> capacitor...
>
> http://videos.videopress.com/h02JJyop/20101020_hd.mp4
>
> And with the 10 uF capacitor...
>
> http://videos.videopress.com/kxRChhjU/20101107-002_hd.mp4
>
> I used an online "beat-tapper" (http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm) to
> calculate the old flash rate (85 Hz, from light 1 on to light 1 on
> again) and the new flash rate (45 Hz).
>
>
> I like 45 Hz. I'm thinking I might try the 20F version, just to see
> how slow it is. But, I'm calling this a huge success. (Thanks Vern,
> for showing me how easy this would be.)
>
>
> (I'm giving up on the flashing of the 4 MR16 HIDs in the wingtip. I
> think I'm going to use steady HID leading edge landing lights, and
> flash my taxi lights (which may still end up in the wingtips.))
>
> --
> Andrew Zachar
> andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher. |
Wow, Andrew, what a great tutorial! If you have a website, you should
publish this. If not, let me know and I can put it up on my site.
Vern
From: Andrew Zachar
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 7:38 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher.
Good morning, everyone.
The last time I had my B&C flasher hooked up, I thought it was a little
fast. I did some experimentation over the weekend, and I thought I would
share my results.
A post on the this list last week made me think it would be much easier
to fix than I thought. Vern: "My fix was to open up the wig-wag flasher
and replace the electrolytic capacitor with a larger value, slowing the
flash rate down."
After eagerly writing Vern back, he elaborated, "You should only find
one capacitor. It's a metal can with a plastic case. Try doubling the
capacitance (in microfarads). It's not critical.
You can just pry open the bottom to release the tabs and slide the cover
off."
Sweet. I went outside and got to work.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-007-large.jpg
The cover was surprisingly easy to pry off.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-008-large.jpg
There's the capacitor, on the upper left. Let's see, this is a 4.7 =B5F
capacitor.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-009-large.jpg
I'll go by a 10=B5F and 20=B5F to try out.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-013-large.jpg
I fired up my (new, because I polished the old one's tip for devinyling
help) soldering gun and heated up the solder on the back of the board
enough to pull the old capacitor out.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-014-large.jpg
Sweet. That was easier than I thought it would be.
Here's the 10=B5F capacitor installed.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-015-large.jpg
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-016-large.jpg
Not great, but not terrible either. (My first REAL soldering.)
So, I put the thing back together and fired it up.
This is the fast version, from my previous post with the 4.7 uF
capacitor...
http://videos.videopress.com/h02JJyop/20101020_hd.mp4
And with the 10 uF capacitor...
http://videos.videopress.com/kxRChhjU/20101107-002_hd.mp4
I used an online "beat-tapper" (http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm) to
calculate the old flash rate (85 Hz, from light 1 on to light 1 on
again) and the new flash rate (45 Hz).
I like 45 Hz. I'm thinking I might try the 20=B5F version, just to see
how slow it is. But, I'm calling this a huge success. (Thanks Vern, for
showing me how easy this would be.)
(I'm giving up on the flashing of the 4 MR16 HIDs in the wingtip. I
think I'm going to use steady HID leading edge landing lights, and flash
my taxi lights (which may still end up in the wingtips.))
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David LLoyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher. |
Andrew,
Thanks for the fine details and images. Just wish that you had not used
.mp4 video format as I could not safely figure a way to view that codex
in my Vista windows os...Dave
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Zachar
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 7:38 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher.
Good morning, everyone.
The last time I had my B&C flasher hooked up, I thought it was a
little fast. I did some experimentation over the weekend, and I thought
I would share my results.
A post on the this list last week made me think it would be much
easier to fix than I thought. Vern: "My fix was to open up the wig-wag
flasher and replace the electrolytic capacitor with a larger value,
slowing the flash rate down."
After eagerly writing Vern back, he elaborated, "You should only find
one capacitor. It's a metal can with a plastic case. Try doubling the
capacitance (in microfarads). It's not critical.
You can just pry open the bottom to release the tabs and slide the
cover off."
Sweet. I went outside and got to work.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-007-large.jpg
The cover was surprisingly easy to pry off.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-008-large.jpg
There's the capacitor, on the upper left. Let's see, this is a 4.7
=B5F capacitor.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-009-large.jpg
I'll go by a 10=B5F and 20=B5F to try out.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-013-large.jpg
I fired up my (new, because I polished the old one's tip for
devinyling help) soldering gun and heated up the solder on the back of
the board enough to pull the old capacitor out.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-014-large.jpg
Sweet. That was easier than I thought it would be.
Here's the 10=B5F capacitor installed.
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-015-large.jpg
http://n999za.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/20101107-016-large.jpg
Not great, but not terrible either. (My first REAL soldering.)
So, I put the thing back together and fired it up.
This is the fast version, from my previous post with the 4.7 uF
capacitor...
http://videos.videopress.com/h02JJyop/20101020_hd.mp4
And with the 10 uF capacitor...
http://videos.videopress.com/kxRChhjU/20101107-002_hd.mp4
I used an online "beat-tapper" (http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm) to
calculate the old flash rate (85 Hz, from light 1 on to light 1 on
again) and the new flash rate (45 Hz).
I like 45 Hz. I'm thinking I might try the 20=B5F version, just to see
how slow it is. But, I'm calling this a huge success. (Thanks Vern, for
showing me how easy this would be.)
(I'm giving up on the flashing of the 4 MR16 HIDs in the wingtip. I
think I'm going to use steady HID leading edge landing lights, and flash
my taxi lights (which may still end up in the wingtips.))
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher. |
| From: | Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com> |
Woops. Forgot to include the post address.
Here's the post:
http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/hacking-the-wig-wag-flasher/
<http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/hacking-the-wig-wag-flasher/>(General
site is: http://n999za.wordpress.com/)
Thanks again, Vern. You were the inspiration for the post.
Wow, Andrew, what a great tutorial! If you have a website, you should
> publish this. If not, let me know and I can put it up on my site.
>
> Vern
>
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher. |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 11/08/2010 04:04 PM, David LLoyd wrote:
> Andrew,
> Thanks for the fine details and images. Just wish that you had not used
> .mp4 video format as I could not safely figure a way to view that codex
> in my Vista windows os...Dave
Hi Dave,
Try VLC:
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher. |
| From: | Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com> |
Just wish that you had not used .mp4 video format as I could not safely
> figure a way to view that codex in my Vista windows os...Dave
>
Yeah, I was worried about that. Can you see them at the bottom of my
wordpress post through Chrome or IE? (
http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/hacking-the-wig-wag-flasher/)
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher. |
At 03:06 PM 11/8/2010, you wrote:
>Woops. Forgot to include the post address.
>
>Here's the post:
><http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/hacking-the-wig-wag-flasher/>http://n999za.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/hacking-the-wig-wag-flasher/
>
>(General site is: <http://n999za.wordpress.com/>http://n999za.wordpress.com/)
>
>Thanks again, Vern. You were the inspiration for the post.
It's MUCH easier to replace the timing resistor. I couldn't
see the critter well enough to read the resistance but it's
no doubt the one right next to the base of capacitor.
Having said that, one might ALSO which to replace the aluminum
electrolytic with the smaller tantalum. It's more stable and
less stressful of mounting under vibration. Here's a readily
available device
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 62393
and it's a 10uf . . . which will double the flash cycle
period. But for finer tuning . . . fiddle with the
resistor. A dab of E6000, RTV or similar cement at the
base of the existing capacitor would go a long way toward
increasing it's resistance to vibration.
It's a VERY common production practice to put little
dabs of support on components with long overhangs. I learned
this about 1975 when my first article ov relay for Cessna
got some parts shaken off during qual tests. After about
three or four similar experiences I learned how to do it.
Haven't broken a product in vibration qualification in
30 years.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Squeaky Wheeling |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Re 9024 module status, 10/22/10
Unfortunately, Bob, only you can answer this.
Just want to know if I should go ahead and drill another panel hole for Alt 2 CB
and get an OVM-14, or if the 9024 release is imminent.
When you have a moment.
Thanks,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318625#318625
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make |
A Contribution Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the
Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your
Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Squeaky Wheeling |
At 06:58 PM 11/8/2010, you wrote:
>
>Re 9024 module status, 10/22/10
>
>Unfortunately, Bob, only you can answer this.
>
>Just want to know if I should go ahead and drill another panel hole
>for Alt 2 CB and get an OVM-14, or if the 9024 release is imminent.
>
>When you have a moment.
The 9024 release is not imminent. If you'll order
the crowbar module for now, I'll trade it out with
you later when the 9024 is ready to go to production.
Too many squeaky wheels!
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom <tomrv4(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Speaking of Wig Wags... |
I installed one of B&C's wig wag units, and wired it per page 2 of Bob's diagram
(separate switches for the landing and taxi lights, and an S700-2-3 wig wag
switch)
I can not get the system to work properly.
The landing and taxi lights each come on with there respective switches (the bulbs
are definitely working). When the wig wag switch is turned on, both lights
go out, and a split second later only the taxi light comes on, and no wig wagging.
I have double checked the wiring and switch diagrams, and the continuity of all
wires and feel that everything is hooked up correctly. I switched the two light
wires on the wig wag unit and now the landing light only comes on.
I purchased and installed a new, identical wig wag unit from a local auto parts
store (Tridon EL13 A-2) No change...
I am using two Trail Tech HID lights. 30watt 1850 lumens.
Any ideas?!
Thanks!
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wig Wags... |
| From: | "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
The flashers used in this system depend on fairly low voltage drop continuity thought
one of the lamps . . . even when it's off. Hence, the system I published
is tested only for use with incandescent lamps. Further, SOME HID system don't
like to be flashed. Try hooking some ordinary 12v lamps in place of the HID
fixtures. Tail light lamps work. See if the system functions then. Also, check
with the folks you bought the HID system from to see if it's okay to flash it.
If flashing is okay, then you might get things to work better by paralleling one
of the lamps with a 10 ohm, 25 watt resistor.
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318749#318749
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Make A Contribution Today! |
At 02:18 AM 11/9/2010, you wrote:
>--=======AVGMAIL-3CF03023======
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message
>acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to
>support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that
>took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
>
>Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
>Contributors (LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over
>the years, the List seems at least as valuable a building /
>entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription!
I will suggest it is even more valuable than a magazine.
Magazines are edited and published by entities who measure
their success in paid subscriptions. Their end product is
to get paid for having sent X-pounds of paper to your mailbox
and getting paid for it. Whether or not any particular
issue has information of immediate value to your building
efforts is a dart-throw. On the Lists, we measure success
by how many new airplanes fly, how many dead alternators
are resurrected, how many hard to find parts have been
chased down.
This is the reason why I consider the Aero-Electric List
to be a necessary extension of the book. The book, like
a magazine, can only cover the unchanging fundamentals and
introduce the reader to the language and the occasional
'project'. The List builds on that knowledge to assist you
in closing your eyes, seeing something that does not yet
exist . . . and going out to the shop to build it.
The List-Servers are interactive. You can ASK specific
questions and get multiple-answers back within hours.
The List plugs you into the collective experience and
knowledge set of many individuals. If your own $time$
is worth anything, just consider how much of your $time$
has not been expended to reinvent a wheel or research
un-useful options. More important, when something DOESN'T
work you're about 1000x more likely to get meaningful
assistance here than with any magazine. Compare your
proposed project with the wiring in a Tri-Pacer . . .
is that "good 'nuf" for one of those marvelous OBAM
airplanes?
Finally, the List contributes to a kind of education that
you cannot get in modern educational settings. In ancient
times, a prospective tradesman applied to a guild to
apprentice with a master craftsman. That master KNEW that
diversion of his/her attention from the tasks at hand
would reduce the return on investment for their own
$time$.
It was a decision that came with some risks. So entry
was selective and the demands on the student great.
But if you could cut it, you emerged with a knowledge
and skill-set that was available to a very few.
Your participation here on the List makes no demands and
has no consequence for missed expectations. Yet it adds
to your own knowledge and skills in ways that go beyond
the crafting of airplanes. So if you've not done it yet,
do it now. All those byte thrashers in Matt's back room
cost money to buy, $electricity$ to run and $hours$ to
maintain. A paltry 1-1/2 cents per day, $5 total from
from each of 1800+ AeroElectric-List members would go
a long way toward keeping the Matronics fires lit.
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch so we're either
supporting participants or moochers. Just because it's
open-source does not mean that its creation and maintenance.
doesn't cost somebody's $time$. Let's do what's necessary
not just to keep it going but to make it better. That's
the way folks who love airplanes do it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom <tomrv4(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wig Wags... |
Thanks for the reply Bob.
I e-mailed Trail Tech and they answered that their HID lights do not work with
flashers.
Oh well, guess I have an extra switch on my panel to find a use for...
Anyone interested in a wig wag flasher unit? I'll give it away if you need one
AND are on Matt's List of Contributors...
Tom
On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:54 AM, nuckollsr wrote:
>
> The flashers used in this system depend on fairly low voltage drop continuity
thought one of the lamps . . . even when it's off. Hence, the system I published
is tested only for use with incandescent lamps. Further, SOME HID system don't
like to be flashed. Try hooking some ordinary 12v lamps in place of the HID
fixtures. Tail light lamps work. See if the system functions then. Also, check
with the folks you bought the HID system from to see if it's okay to flash
it.
>
> If flashing is okay, then you might get things to work better by paralleling
one of the lamps with a 10 ohm, 25 watt resistor.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318749#318749
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David LLoyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher. |
Dj,
Thanks for the tip....will try.
D
__________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dj Merrill" <deej(at)deej.net>
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hacking the B&C Wig Wag Flasher.
>
> On 11/08/2010 04:04 PM, David LLoyd wrote:
>> Andrew,
>> Thanks for the fine details and images. Just wish that you had not used
>> .mp4 video format as I could not safely figure a way to view that codex
>> in my Vista windows os...Dave
>
>
> Hi Dave,
> Try VLC:
> http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill - N1JOV
> Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
>
> Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
> Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: battery location change |
| From: | "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
I have the 2 alternator , 2 batteries, setup in my Glasair. this has been a problem
free system since it's inception. I am needing to change the location of
the batteries for weitht and balance and interference problems. Currently the
batteries and the all the control solenoids are on the engine side of the firewall
with 2 power and 1 gnd thru the firewall connections. Do I need to add
2 more thru the firewall connections to get the power back out to the solenoids
from the repositioned batteries or is there a more efficient way to reconfigure
the system.
You'll need fat-wire feeders from each battery plus one for a ground to bring the
connections aft to the batteries. I'd leave the crossfeed contactor on the
firewall and use it as a tie-point for the battery feeders. Battery contactors
and any battery busses move back with the batteries.
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318815#318815
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 OV protection |
Hi Bob,
Do you have a protection circuit to protect against
regulator-rectifier failure for the PM alternator as used on the
Jabiru 3300? I have installed the OV crowbar circuit but does this
stop voltage excess say 15-20V? I am getting interference affecting
the ECU as I have fuel injected the engine. I will test the Vreg
output in a couple of days but need to be sure I have this protection
if possible anyway.
Thanks
Peter
Quickie Q-200Jabiru
It would the be the same technique illustrated
in . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z16M.pdf
OV protection systems for 14v airplanes are designed
to shut the alternator down and latch it off if the
bus voltage exceeds 16.0 to 16.5 volts.
Have you had a voltmeter on the system. This is the
FIRST thing you do for iniital operations of any new
system . . . see if the alternator is even working
and deduce the voltage regulator setting.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wig Wags |
Tom,
You can't wig-wag those HIDs.
Stan Sutterfield
I purchased and installed a new, identical wig wag unit from a local auto
parts
store (Tridon EL13 A-2) No change...
I am using two Trail Tech HID lights.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wig Wags... |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Tom
I'd like to have the flasher unit if it's still available... and I'll "trade" for
my 40 Littlefuse modular, ATO, fuse holders w/connectors that any other Matronics
contributor would like to have.
See:
http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Data_Sheets/155_153PCMount.pdf
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318831#318831
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Squeaky Wheeling |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Thanks, Bob.
J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318846#318846
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 OV protection |
Thanks Bob
Yes I have a voltmeter and have not noticed a problem but I will fit the
S704-1 for protection. The EFI system has worked fine for 3 years but now it
seems that noise is boosting the MAP signal which no longer follows the fuel
maps and it runs over rich. I will also test with alternator disconnected.
I will report back when solved and hope it may help someone else.
Thanks
Peter
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: 11 November 2010 00:26
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Jabiru 3300 OV protection
Hi Bob,
Do you have a protection circuit to protect against regulator-rectifier
failure for the PM alternator as used on the Jabiru 3300? I have installed
the OV crowbar circuit but does this stop voltage excess say 15-20V? I am
getting interference affecting the ECU as I have fuel injected the engine. I
will test the Vreg output in a couple of days but need to be sure I have
this protection if possible anyway.
Thanks
Peter
Quickie Q-200Jabiru
It would the be the same technique illustrated
in . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z16M.pdf
OV protection systems for 14v airplanes are designed
to shut the alternator down and latch it off if the
bus voltage exceeds 16.0 to 16.5 volts.
Have you had a voltmeter on the system. This is the
FIRST thing you do for iniital operations of any new
system . . . see if the alternator is even working
and deduce the voltage regulator setting.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 OV protection |
At 03:23 PM 11/10/2010, you wrote:
>Thanks Bob
>Yes I have a voltmeter and have not noticed a problem but I will fit
>the S704-1 for protection. The EFI system has worked fine for 3
>years but now it seems that noise is boosting the MAP signal which
>no longer follows the fuel maps and it runs over rich. I will also
>test with alternator disconnected.
>I will report back when solved and hope it may help someone else.
Hmmmm . . . engine sensors tend to offer DC signals that are
easy to filter. I suspect that alternator 'noise' is not
root cause for the noted errors. But I could be wrong. Let
us know what you find and holler if we can help.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 OV protection |
Thanks again Bob,
It turns out I do have the PM alternator disconnect relay S704-1 I had
forgotten. I suppose if the rectifier is shot it would pass up to 16VAC. The
supply voltage from ECU to MAP sensor is 5VDC which I confirmed static. Not
sure if the ECU signal input is filtered but it should be as you say.
I will report back when tried with alternator disconnected.
Peter
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: 11 November 2010 13:09
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Jabiru 3300 OV protection
At 03:23 PM 11/10/2010, you wrote:
Thanks Bob
Yes I have a voltmeter and have not noticed a problem but I will fit the
S704-1 for protection. The EFI system has worked fine for 3 years but now it
seems that noise is boosting the MAP signal which no longer follows the fuel
maps and it runs over rich. I will also test with alternator disconnected.
I will report back when solved and hope it may help someone else.
Hmmmm . . . engine sensors tend to offer DC signals that are
easy to filter. I suspect that alternator 'noise' is not
root cause for the noted errors. But I could be wrong. Let
us know what you find and holler if we can help.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Support The Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | OT DIY - alive and well |
Soapbox=on
I have ofter heard people on this and other lists comment that younger
people don't seem to be interested in learning the skills necessary to
do DIY projects or hobbies.
Ray,
Back when I was a kid (some 60+ years ago and counting)
people said the same thing. Does it mean something???
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New BMA Nav data available |
| From: | "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> |
For those who might be interested:
An independent service has been set up to provide monthly Nav data
updates for Gen 3 / Gen 4 Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS's.
I am not associated with this service, but have purchased a subscription
and updated my system.
The URL is www.bluemountainavionicsdata.com
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319054#319054
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Z-16 Clairification |
As you look at the right post of the Batt Contactor, there is a wire that
shoots straight down to the Main Power Bus... which size wire should this be? I
wired it with a 16 AWG and now I am second guessing that.
Thanks, Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-16 Clairification |
At 06:58 PM 11/11/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>As you look at the right post of the Batt Contactor, there is a wire that
>shoots straight down to the Main Power Bus... which size wire should
>this be? I
>wired it with a 16 AWG and now I am second guessing that.
This is one of the system's 'fat wires' and
would normally be at least a 6AWG wire. Given
the relatively small alternator (hence limits
to main bus loads) then you could down size
a tad but not much. How long is this wire and
how does it route though the airplane?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-16 Clairification |
The wire is 3 foot long running the length of the panel along the base of it.
----- Original Message ----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 6:15:43 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-16 Clairification
>
>
>
> At 06:58 PM 11/11/2010, you wrote:
>
> >
> > As you look at the right post of the Batt Contactor, there is a wire that
> > shoots straight down to the Main Power Bus... which size wire should this be?
>I
> > wired it with a 16 AWG and now I am second guessing that.
>
>
> This is one of the system's 'fat wires' and
> would normally be at least a 6AWG wire. Given
> the relatively small alternator (hence limits
> to main bus loads) then you could down size
> a tad but not much. How long is this wire and
> how does it route though the airplane?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New BMA Nav data available |
Ira,
Thank you for posting that info. I will pass it on to other BMA owners.
Stan Sutterfield
For those who might be interested:
An independent service has been set up to provide monthly Nav data
updates for Gen 3 / Gen 4 Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS's.
I am not associated with this service, but have purchased a subscription
and updated my system.
The URL is www.bluemountainavionicsdata.com
Ira
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | New BMA Nav data available |
> I am not associated with this service=2C but have purchased a subscriptio
n
> and updated my system.
>
> The URL is www.bluemountainavionicsdata.com
>
> Ira
Ira=2C
I'm not sure why=2C but when I 'copy and paste' that BMA link=2C it says
it's not available.
I have the BMA EFISOne=2C and would be very interested in updating the so
ftware.
Mike Welch
MkIII & GlaStar
both under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New BMA Nav data available |
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
Mike,
Might have been some issues with the TIFF screen capture. Here it is in JPG:
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Nov 12, 2010, at 9:14, Mike Welch wrote:
>
>
> > I am not associated with this service, but have purchased a subscription
> > and updated my system.
> >
> > The URL is www.bluemountainavionicsdata.com
> >
> > Ira
>
> Ira,
>
> I'm not sure why, but when I 'copy and paste' that BMA link, it says it's not
available.
>
> I have the BMA EFISOne, and would be very interested in updating the software.
>
> Mike Welch
> MkIII & GlaStar
> both under construction
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | New BMA Nav data available |
Hi Bob=2C
Thanks for the reply. I have done all kinds of searches=2C from forums
=2C to BMA updates.
I've come across the BMA data link many=2C many times. However=2C no matte
r what I click on=2C
they all come up with "internet site not available". I've even typed in th
e link by hand=2C from
Craig's discussion blog. No joy...again.
Evidently=2C Craig (or somebody) has the site down for some reason. No p
roblems=2C tho=2C I'll
just keep looking for it every once in a while.
Thanks again=2C Mike W
/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgEASABIAAD/4R0tRXhpZgAATU0AKgAAAAgADgEAAAMAAAABAw0AAAEBAAMA
AAABA7IAAAECAAMAAAAEAAAAtgEDAAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAIAAAESAAMAAAABAAEAAAEV
AAMAAAABAAQAAAEaAAUAAAABAAAAvgEbAAUAAAABAAAAxgEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAABAAIA
AAExAAIAAAAeAAAAzgEyAAIAAAAUAAAA7IdpAAQAAAABAAABAAAAASwACAAIAAgACAAK/IAAACcQ
AAr8gAAAJxBBZG9iZSBQaG90b3Nob3AgQ1MzIE1hY2ludG9zaAAyMDEwOjExOjEyIDEwOjE0OjUz
AAADoAEAAwAAAAH//wAAoAIABAAAAAEAAAMNoAMABAAAAAEAAAOyAAAAAAAAAAYBAwADAAAAAQAG
AAABGgAFAAAAAQAAAXoBGwAFAAAAAQAAAYIBKAADAAAAAQACAAACAQAEAAAAAQAAAYoCAgAEAAAA
AQAAG5sAAAAAAAAASAAAAAEAAABIAAAAAf/Y/+AAEEpGSUYAAQIAAEgASAAA/+0ADEFkb2JlX0NN
AAL/7gAOQWRvYmUAZIAAAAAB/9sAhAAMCAgICQgMCQkMEQsKCxEVDwwMDxUYExMVExMYEQwMDAwM
DBEMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMAQ0LCw0ODRAODhAUDg4OFBQODg4OFBEMDAwM
DBERDAwMDAwMEQwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAz/wAARCACgAIQDASIAAhEBAxEB
/90ABAAJ/8QBPwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAwABAgQFBgcICQoLAQABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAB
AAIDBAUGBwgJCgsQAAEEAQMCBAIFBwYIBQMMMwEAAhEDBCESMQVBUWETInGBMgYUkaGxQiMkFVLB
YjM0coLRQwclklPw4fFjczUWorKDJkSTVGRFwqN0NhfSVeJl8rOEw9N14/NGJ5SkhbSVxNTk9KW1
xdXl9VZmdoaWprbG1ub2N0dXZ3eHl6e3x9fn9xEAAgIBAgQEAwQFBgcHBgU1AQACEQMhMRIEQVFh
cSITBTKBkRShsUIjwVLR8DMkYuFygpJDUxVjczTxJQYWorKDByY1wtJEk1SjF2RFVTZ0ZeLys4TD
03Xj80aUpIW0lcTU5PSltcXV5fVWZnaGlqa2xtbm9ic3R1dnd4eXp7fH/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDv
d9UAkul0PMA/Sbo1o97f0jvzU1uYzGb7WusL3DQDuY9Rzy536P0//BP8GqhbUa32lznPtb6L667W
S0H9E59e51ezZ9P+QhsFVePXjMOUGVCWWC5nqHcS5zbLfW3O2/R/SJKdJ2aA8sAe52wvG1ogkRtp
lz2fprd26v8AM/4RKvKscWB9VtReJ1YHNGhdtdZXc791Ua7GMd6k3vnlj7a3NG0NbPpm3/CfSUfS
BAc05usx+lEfvbvpO3N/NYj0U6H2qyXD0b/bx+i0Oob7Xett7pDKeT/NXd4JqiY/677d3/CKg73t
aPSzGFoMOaQHa/vn1Hb/AORuRPS9GwFr7LdCYssLm6e36O33fS/OQU2/tb/9Df3/AMF4Hb/pUjlv
BA9G88yRVIEfC1Z/oOiBZcBEQL3f+R3KTq3Pa1u57dpPubaQ4z++7ad38lJTpV2ufYWQ5gE/pHs2
tMefqbv+ijemf9NX/r/bWL6D/wDS3f8Abx/8gpPqc8MBL27ONtrmk67v0hA/Sf2klOxsP+mr/wBf
7aWw/wCmr/1/trHfU57mu3WMLW7YZa4AjxsG12+z/hPppMqexwdusfH5r7nOb827fckp2Nh/01f+
v9tLYf8ATV/6/wBtYhx3Ek+pcJJdAvdAJ/d9v0f3GKb63PDRuezYSQWWuaTu/wBIYd6m3/B7v5tJ
TsbP+Gr/ANf7ajZT6jHMN7QHCCWktcJ/dcH+1Y4x3j/CXH43u/8AIJ/Sf6QrL7CQQ71fVIsJA26v
a36P8jbsSU6v2b27ftZ+lu3bteNuyd383/ISWT6L4j1bv+3jP/ntJJT/AP/Q5XqVVR6nmksaT9qv
1IH+lsVf0Kf9G37grXUf+U83/wANX/8An2xAV8bBaj9Cn/Rt+4L0vB6N1fL6Z0TKw+oMxMZvTcet
1L2b5eP0m/bGz6Pt+n/wf+FXm69b6Ecz9g9HFOC/KrOBjza22tgB26s9O33+395NlIggiuvzcNf8
9SD9j9cLcgZObisddR6dDsbHa30bt+77Q2zb6tm2n2fT/wCtf4ZNR0Xr9YlnVMexjXGXXYrC8732
P3exvs9Jj2bNn6H/ALTbKq6fVyNeM9tjmDptpZpDxdRB/suO5qYv6k2whvSLHBvD/tFOvyLkOOW3
6vv/AJFX2uSel/WKQB1WkyWb3uxw32t9b1WV11VMa11vq1fpt3qM+z1/107+mdXdiCt+bS7JGQ20
ZDscCaWCfsJ2Ctz6rr2t9Wx++37P6v8APLTa/qr3Hf0mxjYJ/pNPP7u1qk79qNH6PpjzPLHZNYH5
HpcZ/wBX/wCMqrzcSzpHXN+6rqGMJG1wdisI0NnpuZX6fp7vTdV6v0P1j9L6noU1YtjDo/XhO3qG
M4ucwy7GZw0s9Rpr9F38/Wz/AADsWumz1PZ+n/Qaxf1jdr0Wwj+TlUR/0tj0UWdTbWHN6O/f4HIp
kf2p2o8cv9X/AOMq+1yD0TqZ6k28Zlf2JmR6oxgwtDqN9tzqLfbtc5tdrMWr9L6Pp49VtnqfzCH/
AM3+u7LPT6nSyux9rtaRY9rXep9nbVbax/o7N9W+ur9HV6H6H+etWwMjrZ0PRbAP/DdJSH7VIk9I
eCe32mrRLjl3x/bhKvtcp/Q+vGy21nUcRrniwVsOKHMYHOJx/Z6W11tLXfz/APwfpW1Xf4I+H07q
NWaLc7KxMrD/AEk49eKyt3uM4/6bZu/Q/wBj/wBCFeH7U9pPSbRP0gMmn26/9JJn7Wc6D0q2sHub
6HAfigZEiv1f/jKvtSGrBH/aSr51tUBRSCXV0sHjDG/+RUyOptdA6fa7n3C+kDy59yLXX1AhhOK+
svDS8Gys7S71d4O36fpenV9H6f2n/gbVHt1H+NFLd1+1f9c/9FpJf9qp7+px/wBbSVdL/9Hnsz6t
/WW3NyLKwwi26xzf0rJO57ncbvztyt1fVPrLMcDJ6ZmPyAHb7WZVLKp12EU2Ytr2tZ/hP0/6RAz+
rdUZ1DMYzLtaxmRc1rQdA1tj2taNPzWoP7a6z3zr9efetH3spAHBh/xJD/orKHixf9VPrWxxZYxr
HjQtdYwEfFrnL1joPU8XpvQ+l4OXvbezDp3bWOe2Y9Hb6tbX17/VZ+8vKD1nrHJzbifEun+C9M6Q
/Ks6N0t/qZ4LsDHe52M1jq3PLXvfu9QOf6+732/9br/fYos855BETjjAH+aj7f2q22/F3HfWDpLQ
XG520CSRVaQJ8YrUn9a6fXu3Of7LTS+K3na5oc526GfQ21u96oMsyC8gO6m03NbWHOrr2te5rMX7
V9H9H6f9Iez+Z3+rb6KF6+UHDdZ1KuuuuXVCpjnOJda4vfe9jvzPb6dbK/5utQcA/kf/AEFXEf5D
/wBCdM9e6UObiPa1+tdn0Xtbaz8z85ljP+o+mk7rvTGtLt79rHhlh9Oz2lwe9u8bN3+Cc3/jFmGz
L0l/VnFrS7+apEydD7WMZ/1paTenZNlPvz8pot2OLT6bXtEP9SvfXU3b6nqe/wDc9P8ARbEDGI3/
AD/9BUJSP+9/6Eks6x0+t/pusd6giWCuwu1a2z6DWbvoPaoDrvT3ML6zZYwAEltVnBbbdu9zG7vZ
j2fRTt6Zey0vbn5G11ptdWSxzY3+p6DfUre9lG39F7HfQUKuk5FTdjepZTmkyd5rc7kmA99TnIVD
v/L/ABU+ptYedjZrHvxyXNrdsJLXN1hr/bvDdzfeiWX01R6tja93G4gTH9ZVsTAvx7A9+bfkAAjZ
Zs2x2nZW13t/e3Kh9ZMt+Bj5WfUxll2Lg32VCwS3c01ubu/O2ppq9Ei61dX7dhf9yKv89v8Ael9u
wv8AuRV/nt/vXk7frj9bnQGFj54IxatfNBt+uv1zYHH9GA0bnE4tUAA7dzv3W7nImEwOIxkI/vUe
HX+sjiD699uwv+5FX+e3+9OMzDJAF9ZJ0AD28n5rx/8A54fXyJLa4PB+y1dls/VL6zdb6tk9S6d1
dtT2twLMmv8AQtre0tc2ofzf5r/V/P8A3EpQnEXKMo/3gYpEgdH0P/tV/wBc/wDRaSX/AGq/65/6
LSTUv//S5jqP/Keb/wCGr/8Az7Yq6sdR/wCU83/w1f8A+fbFXV8bBasvYfq3ZmN+r/SGUFwY7Bo9
3ph7Gu26vc/1aX/1mrx5et9BrrPQuj2Ora8s6fRIc2klwLQ3ZvyHNubzv/0SizbBDqvyc+uxxJsL
H/QBpZDS4bmNn12ud6ScZPUtrX+5zXboa2gToPa5zvtO387+2q7amPaaWUm0uDCNjMU7QJ3Db6m3
b+kf/wCi0Q4DzAfj+p6THAH0ceHfuelNjvT2+p+f+j/RKHTwVr4pPtPUtk+6SJg0AbTJbtf+s/yd
/wDbU2359jLLNzq2iNjfSbv8fa7131v3/wA23+Wq9uPk2N/S41lthdvL3VYrp9uzg3fSa123fuTn
AsDXUikuZZ9Jwpxtu5hdtc9peN7H/mfo9/8AUS08Fa+KQ5WcGxL2kbnbn1M119lWmQz3bf8AtxOc
nP3PLN765Ir21NJ59sO+0De1n9RBbhuBY37EQ2R6n6PFIe2Z9/6Ruzbu/M/6tL7DcdtZpdp+j3mn
F27DO/2+pu9J27ftS08Fa+LaryMwWsFoc5rSGPDa2gOJLv0zXevZspa0Nc789ZH1xs3dD6jZtLJ6
ZkO2u0cP5v2uVuzp9jp/VIZZu3MbVjSPi91n+a5VPrsSeh9TJEE9MyJHh/Npsq8Eh836dZVeGYpL
g/Y1ztBH0XXMDXP+lv8AT2fo/of4RWRUXiQ2REwdp0+9VOn9V6fiYtVN9rWW+m7UmNu6va3c7832
u3Ireq9PfvYOoUewiNxdBa/WxzHNDtjqnN/dVsfE+Yw8MBHHkgIQjXDkv0/vfLHj4Wv7x1HtS9Mp
eq/m/R4vll+6lLTQwveXOda8NrYAxpAguMmx+1zfb9P2Kz9SrG29f6layQ1/SLSA4Fp/na2+5jvc
3hUKutYJfsdlh7xLZY7do0/T97dux39VaX1Pubf9ZOq2sdva/pNpDvGLamn8ibzHOZc+McYEY8di
P6d8Pec+Ph9X7isWUyycJhw0OK/r/dfUP+1X/XP/AEWkl/2q/wCuf+i0lUbT/9PmOo/8p5v/AIav
/wDPtirqx1H/AJTzf/DV/wD59sVdXxsFqy9d6BfjV9B6O3IZjOBwccl1zoeGlvu2s9Kze39z3ryJ
eu9Bsc36v9Ja2ZPT6dPVtYI9NziWsoptZv2t+nu9T/v8WbYIdOnOYHE11Y25xAD67RDifpsO2rd6
mxu/b/hFNvV2vbvYaS1rQXOdaWAPdu2M99X5236aC60VXObXa97WgFoe++Q4Bzhu/R2+ox+/9J7l
EW2DbvkNsO3S/JJG0t384/0m/wAv6ahodlWe7Yd1V7axcW0Gp0hjxaSC8CfT9tPl9NJ/V/TBLzjt
LT72m+IEBzj/ADX8pvsVQX+x4l5kT/P5MiCO5obs9u7+WiW2vYdj3ur3P2u22XvIFY2N9N3ofS+l
6/7/ANP1EuEdlWe7YPVXB4Y8UMMHcHX+4OAd7dra3f8AB/56Q6qXT6f2dxAJAN8TA3P/AMCfa3bZ
7v8Ag1U9UNrJda8NftaCbrwdw2Oc0bqP5f8AOM/nP0dak69hxwdzt0hjmC3JH0fcz03Cr1d7vb6n
sS4R2VxHu36uo4zmgvtraX2ekza/cHO09rTDPd7li/Xj/kXqn/ptyPy1rUxMs1O9G4bWtcGE7rrX
eo8na31LaWbmf2/0ay/rx/yL1T/025H5a0yQpcC+G5T3jqTWgNc1raXljy0NdFdR2u9T2bU+DiP6
iLTRZVj/AGat5cci4MLmOnaxkta13pp8zCvtyPtVe01hlYG46EtYxjmf5zdqh+zbrN8UvFhDtxlk
by7cxrGt2bPYhpqtsaNZtrrmOfYdz2EEuLg0lsbQwN/d9q7z/Fq39ayn8A9HuA/7fC5bD6HZdVte
+qkB421ZD9ri6G+o5rqmWfotPzl2f1Co+z5udR7Zq6Xe07Dub/PNcNr/AM5u1yJHVAmDLhAOnh6X
1H/tV/1z/wBFpJf9qv8Arn/otJBkf//U5jqP/Keb/wCGr/8Az7Yq6sdR/wCU83/w1f8A+fbFXV8b
BasvXvq+GnoHR/V9X0hgUyKvtEzs/wC6n6F39r9KvIV7F9W7cpn1c6SKQ4tdhY+oY1zQYG53utps
+h9NRZth5qbLm3Nr2uL3H3MeWDMj2Q9mzY57/pudvs/w3+kRKsfIyqgdG7GhgBOTXxtdtc176X2t
2uf+lcptv6jvdJfDYJaa65dJ2/o9uT+77/o/+k0zrup+mILw4Egg1VknRzg/+k7W7Y2/11Dr3CPo
ldg37W7He4gCwG2/md26p3qoY6dltBFZDRq1rfWyI2/RbH6X2ez9xqf7RntZbJNjmlu0itg0lwe4
bsn3fR/OTWZGeHPDd5cfaxorrIG0Auu2nJ3vZb/g0Ne4Tp2X+wZW3R4BlpI9XIjSd+vq/wBT81Mc
DO97WubscY1uyN0B25nu9X2/ytqRyM1tW5zz+aDZsr2tLju3f0j6Pu9Jyd1/UILQLA4AbT6dfudu
7TkfnVn/AMzS17hGnYrP6flvsa57gWHb6gF2Q2ON/phtuxUfrbiZGX0zPxMWs23W9OvZVW3lziWb
Wt/lK82/qBLXxZs3CWekwktH84Wvbf8ARd/g/wD0arl+HRe9tlgcHsBa1zHvYYdtLmzU5m76DUJX
1K4U+JD6v9a2NYOk9Qc1pcZNDmyDPp7R6Ltj9f0u5SHQevBp/wAlZ24t/wBA+PU/f/mt3o/8F/Of
8IvaP2dj/vXf9v3f+lUv2dj/AL13/b93/pVNRwvjJ6F1zXb0rqEQNs0O5n3l+2n3V7foNb71t/UX
pHXMPL6pf1DEvoo+wWMbZdW6sb3OY7Yz1Gs3+2p39Rel/s7H/eu/7fu/9KpndMxHtLX+q9p5a661
wI8HNdZtc1JQiv8A9qv+uf8AotJL/tV/1z/0Wkkuf//V5jqP/Keb/wCGr/8Az7Yq6sdR/wCU83/w
1f8A+fbFXV8bBasvWuien+wujB0bjgUiSKCdpZtcz9ac27ZZP5nsXkq9g+ruRXV9XOkhzaX2fYsZ
zRY7a/6Dvd/N2/R/wX9tRZtgjon21saQawWN3NdS4YjdjTq6YL27PUd7lJrKfX+g1we0PdX+q7HN
2Nf6dp/ntvqM372I/wBtxt29jMQgb3Nf6kHX2T/Mf4RzqmW7Xfn/AOEUH5tLWt3V4YdAABedWRta
W/q+76W9mzaoteyNO6EMx7TW120PMhtjm4hJn6DdHO/4lvpt/wAKjtwXsiKCWtf6gArxwZaGP9/0
ffa9myt9f83/AIRTGXQbam+ljEOc0bg8zvnZY2tvoe57LN357P8AracdYEAOOMHzBb6zoA/rHH+k
h6ugTp3RVY99AsFePYN4AO2vFbJBD59r2fy/ppndPsMRjkMFbQWeljalsu9P6bvFzP8AR/pPpqwe
q7SA847SWB4/TO/OPt/wP0PS/Sb/APztL9qW7tpbjzy4Nuc4gR6jjtGP7ttY3JersFenuxBz2GsM
qyAxkDYBjAEAk7Pp+xrWfo/YrVmb6bq6/QsfbYw2Gtm0loG0O3uL2s+k/wDMco19TxDW1z7WAuds
9pLm7v3d+1iTv+VK/wDiH/8AV1JhvqKXDztz78Km+6259GcHWmSG2gNBgNmtnrbWcJj0+ghoNGf7
WtY0+rqGtM/S9fd/aVl/Uc7IotGPg5NDxt9K1/oEPDnhhfU0ZNn0a/036dlX6P8A4T9GqX236zbx
jGj3jaXvbWD7S97HOryX3V4rn1VNr3b6a/U9T9Hj+mnji/eqvFaeHt+DM9NoNbKzV1DayY/TQfcX
OO5wv930/pfTVynJbg4gYcfJ9GkEuss2vcG/Sc97vUdY/aquPd9YTcDlVvFWOx73MpbV+mcC706G
2Wv9z3M9P9J6WDV/Of8AW7N+XZldJzHWY1uI5jHtNV/plx9m/ePs1uRXs93+kTZcXU39UxroKbH/
AGq/65/6LSS/7Vf9c/8ARaSauf/W5jqP/Keb/wCGr/8Az7Yq6sdR/wCU83/w1f8A+fbFXV8bBasv
Yvq5TlWfVzpLqQC37BS0zdZUZLNv0KWvZ+d/O/zi8dXr/QG4rvq50n1sV2Q4YOOS6st3Buw7Q5hf
W9zPpKLNsPNTuuwWODpsuaXxu22v0/qa+z+wmbgMazb6159u0uNjpMu37v6/9X8xN9iwLd0ND94b
u9xOg+h+d7fo+1Sd07Ddv3MJ9T6fudrrv/e/eVe/EprwChgsDg71LjtduANjo4b7Dr72ez/CJm9P
pb9Gy4CZ2+tZA0/rpv2VgS0iqNh3NhzhqI8HfyVOzp+HZv31g+oZeASJI3au2n+WlfiVV4BYYNQD
gX2uDvG15jXd7ff7U4wqw9j99pLABBseQYEe9u7a5I9PxD6c1/zIArguEAHcBoUN3SenuJc6rcXS
SS5x5/tJX4lVeAbFFDaWlrXPcCZl7nPPAb9Kwu/dQXf8qV/8Q/8A6upWlVd/ypX/AMQ//q6k1Ljf
WKjrl2F08dIGQdpJvGNbVU6PTive7J9r2b/zGKfRMfq7G5X2sZbd2NU2v17a3n1QLvU9DY+z07fd
V6z3/od/p+mrXUT1EYOL9gpsucYFgrexhDdh936Wyj87+Uq/Q6OsMqzftjMmux7Gij17mWy4C3+Z
Fdt3ofSr3bnp5x2Bk9yuHT2+LSWv6UEe+f5n2xV8Xu8Pq/u8bUwel/WCrPqffmZ1uKx4Ox9lMkbv
YL9tfuZs/pHpu/4pbWf/AEHqH9R3/ntqpCrrLLcdofde31GG14a2tuzc3d6nq5L3exm7+Zp/Sq7n
/wBB6h/Ud/57am8cpXxEyI7xjD/0nDHGS4iqoAX2N/8ASlJL/wBqv+uf+i0kv+1X/XP/AEWkgh//
1+Y6j/ynm/8Ahq//AM+2KurHUf8AlPN/8NX/APn2xV1fGwWrL2T6t4Ayvq50ax7/AGMw8eKyyt4k
NEu3W1ve3e32e1eNr2b6t5Jp+q/RmVwbX4lRDXTENr3OPtDv3VDzBqIKgLdGrpz6d4pv9MPIIDK6
2xB3fms9/wCd9NGbRlNmckukCJY3Qgyfohv0m+1Vh1QFjX72w5u4RXadP81TGbfvoIY19Nzixz4c
wtIkfQs9/ucFVGWJNWLPgmqbdbXMYGucXuHLjyVNJJFKkkkklKVLIsFPUK7XssLDS9u5lb7Nd1Zh
3osft/tK6kkpz25GO1oa12UGjQD0btB/2wn+00fvZX/bNv8A6QV9JK1ND7TR+9lf9s2/+kELLvqd
g5NVTch9lzHAbqLtXFvptH80GtWokkpq/wDar/rn/otJL/tV/wBc/wDRaSSn/9DmOo/8p5v/AIav
/wDPtirqx1H/AJTzf/DV/wD59sVdXxsFqy9o+q+Oy76r9IdJrsbiUxYyN30I2+9r/b714uvZfqw7
qDfq30r7PXU+r7HRG9zmunY3f9Ftihzi4gafVQNOiOkUDbDyNhDmwyoQREOb+h9v0UYYXvY599tg
rduDXbAJAIE7K2O/OQ2WdW3N9SmkN3AODXknb+c4bmM938lQFvXIAOPjlwA3O9VwaT+dt/Rucq4w
j+pp4xTx+f2F0ElVrs6ibgLKamU67nB5LuNPZ6bW/wDTVpIiu301UDakkkkEqSSSSUpJJJJSkkkk
lNX/ALVf9c/9FpJf9qv+uf8AotJJT//Z/+056lBob3Rvc2hvcCAzLjAAOEJJTQQlAAAAAAAQAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADhCSU0D6gAAAAAYIDw/eG1sIHZlcnNpb249IjEuMCIgZW5jb2Rpbmc9IlVU
Ri04Ij8+CjwhRE9DVFlQRSBwbGlzdCBQVUJMSUMgIi0vL0FwcGxlLy9EVEQgUExJU1QgMS4wLy9F
TiIgImh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYXBwbGUuY29tL0RURHMvUHJvcGVydHlMaXN0LTEuMC5kdGQiPgo8cGxp
c3QgdmVyc2lvbj0iMS4wIj4KPGRpY3Q+Cgk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC5QYWdlRm9ybWF0
LlBNSG9yaXpvbnRhbFJlczwva2V5PgoJPGRpY3Q+CgkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlj
a2V0LmNyZWF0b3I8L2tleT4KCQk8c3RyaW5nPmNvbS5hcHBsZS5qb2J0aWNrZXQ8L3N0cmluZz4K
CQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuaXRlbUFycmF5PC9rZXk+CgkJPGFycmF5PgoJ
CQk8ZGljdD4KCQkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LlBhZ2VGb3JtYXQuUE1Ib3Jpem9udGFs
UmVzPC9rZXk+CgkJCQk8cmVhbD43MjwvcmVhbD4KCQkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRp
Y2tldC5zdGF0ZUZsYWc8L2tleT4KCQkJCTxpbnRlZ2VyPjA8L2ludGVnZXI+CgkJCTwvZGljdD4K
CQk8L2FycmF5PgoJPC9kaWN0PgoJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQuUGFnZUZvcm1hdC5QTU9y
aWVudGF0aW9uPC9rZXk+Cgk8ZGljdD4KCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuY3Jl
YXRvcjwva2V5PgoJCTxzdHJpbmc+Y29tLmFwcGxlLmpvYnRpY2tldDwvc3RyaW5nPgoJCTxrZXk+
Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5pdGVtQXJyYXk8L2tleT4KCQk8YXJyYXk+CgkJCTxkaWN0
PgoJCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQuUGFnZUZvcm1hdC5QTU9yaWVudGF0aW9uPC9rZXk+
CgkJCQk8aW50ZWdlcj4xPC9pbnRlZ2VyPgoJCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0
LnN0YXRlRmxhZzwva2V5PgoJCQkJPGludGVnZXI+MDwvaW50ZWdlcj4KCQkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCTwv
YXJyYXk+Cgk8L2RpY3Q+Cgk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC5QYWdlRm9ybWF0LlBNU2NhbGlu
Zzwva2V5PgoJPGRpY3Q+CgkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0LmNyZWF0b3I8L2tl
eT4KCQk8c3RyaW5nPmNvbS5hcHBsZS5qb2J0aWNrZXQ8L3N0cmluZz4KCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBs
ZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuaXRlbUFycmF5PC9rZXk+CgkJPGFycmF5PgoJCQk8ZGljdD4KCQkJCTxr
ZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LlBhZ2VGb3JtYXQuUE1TY2FsaW5nPC9rZXk+CgkJCQk8cmVhbD4x
PC9yZWFsPgoJCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0LnN0YXRlRmxhZzwva2V5PgoJ
CQkJPGludGVnZXI+MDwvaW50ZWdlcj4KCQkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCTwvYXJyYXk+Cgk8L2RpY3Q+Cgk8
a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC5QYWdlRm9ybWF0LlBNVmVydGljYWxSZXM8L2tleT4KCTxkaWN0
PgoJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5jcmVhdG9yPC9rZXk+CgkJPHN0cmluZz5j
b20uYXBwbGUuam9idGlja2V0PC9zdHJpbmc+CgkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0
Lml0ZW1BcnJheTwva2V5PgoJCTxhcnJheT4KCQkJPGRpY3Q+CgkJCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5w
cmludC5QYWdlRm9ybWF0LlBNVmVydGljYWxSZXM8L2tleT4KCQkJCTxyZWFsPjcyPC9yZWFsPgoJ
CQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0LnN0YXRlRmxhZzwva2V5PgoJCQkJPGludGVn
ZXI+MDwvaW50ZWdlcj4KCQkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCTwvYXJyYXk+Cgk8L2RpY3Q+Cgk8a2V5PmNvbS5h
cHBsZS5wcmludC5QYWdlRm9ybWF0LlBNVmVydGljYWxTY2FsaW5nPC9rZXk+Cgk8ZGljdD4KCQk8
a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuY3JlYXRvcjwva2V5PgoJCTxzdHJpbmc+Y29tLmFw
cGxlLmpvYnRpY2tldDwvc3RyaW5nPgoJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5pdGVt
QXJyYXk8L2tleT4KCQk8YXJyYXk+CgkJCTxkaWN0PgoJCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQu
UGFnZUZvcm1hdC5QTVZlcnRpY2FsU2NhbGluZzwva2V5PgoJCQkJPHJlYWw+MTwvcmVhbD4KCQkJ
CTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5zdGF0ZUZsYWc8L2tleT4KCQkJCTxpbnRlZ2Vy
PjA8L2ludGVnZXI+CgkJCTwvZGljdD4KCQk8L2FycmF5PgoJPC9kaWN0PgoJPGtleT5jb20uYXBw
bGUucHJpbnQuc3ViVGlja2V0LnBhcGVyX2luZm9fdGlja2V0PC9rZXk+Cgk8ZGljdD4KCQk8a2V5
PlBNUFBEUGFwZXJDb2RlTmFtZTwva2V5PgoJCTxkaWN0PgoJCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmlu
dC50aWNrZXQuY3JlYXRvcjwva2V5PgoJCQk8c3RyaW5nPmNvbS5hcHBsZS5qb2J0aWNrZXQ8L3N0
cmluZz4KCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0Lml0ZW1BcnJheTwva2V5PgoJCQk8
YXJyYXk+CgkJCQk8ZGljdD4KCQkJCQk8a2V5PlBNUFBEUGFwZXJDb2RlTmFtZTwva2V5PgoJCQkJ
CTxzdHJpbmc+TGV0dGVyPC9zdHJpbmc+CgkJCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0
LnN0YXRlRmxhZzwva2V5PgoJCQkJCTxpbnRlZ2VyPjA8L2ludGVnZXI+CgkJCQk8L2RpY3Q+CgkJ
CTwvYXJyYXk+CgkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCTxrZXk+UE1UaW9nYVBhcGVyTmFtZTwva2V5PgoJCTxkaWN0
PgoJCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuY3JlYXRvcjwva2V5PgoJCQk8c3RyaW5n
PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5qb2J0aWNrZXQ8L3N0cmluZz4KCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlj
a2V0Lml0ZW1BcnJheTwva2V5PgoJCQk8YXJyYXk+CgkJCQk8ZGljdD4KCQkJCQk8a2V5PlBNVGlv
Z2FQYXBlck5hbWU8L2tleT4KCQkJCQk8c3RyaW5nPm5hLWxldHRlcjwvc3RyaW5nPgoJCQkJCTxr
ZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5zdGF0ZUZsYWc8L2tleT4KCQkJCQk8aW50ZWdlcj4w
PC9pbnRlZ2VyPgoJCQkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCQk8L2FycmF5PgoJCTwvZGljdD4KCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5h
cHBsZS5wcmludC5QYWdlRm9ybWF0LlBNQWRqdXN0ZWRQYWdlUmVjdDwva2V5PgoJCTxkaWN0PgoJ
CQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuY3JlYXRvcjwva2V5PgoJCQk8c3RyaW5nPmNv
bS5hcHBsZS5qb2J0aWNrZXQ8L3N0cmluZz4KCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0
Lml0ZW1BcnJheTwva2V5PgoJCQk8YXJyYXk+CgkJCQk8ZGljdD4KCQkJCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBs
ZS5wcmludC5QYWdlRm9ybWF0LlBNQWRqdXN0ZWRQYWdlUmVjdDwva2V5PgoJCQkJCTxhcnJheT4K
CQkJCQkJPGludGVnZXI+MDwvaW50ZWdlcj4KCQkJCQkJPGludGVnZXI+MDwvaW50ZWdlcj4KCQkJ
CQkJPHJlYWw+NzM0PC9yZWFsPgoJCQkJCQk8cmVhbD41NzY8L3JlYWw+CgkJCQkJPC9hcnJheT4K
CQkJCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuc3RhdGVGbGFnPC9rZXk+CgkJCQkJPGlu
dGVnZXI+MDwvaW50ZWdlcj4KCQkJCTwvZGljdD4KCQkJPC9hcnJheT4KCQk8L2RpY3Q+CgkJPGtl
eT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQuUGFnZUZvcm1hdC5QTUFkanVzdGVkUGFwZXJSZWN0PC9rZXk+CgkJ
PGRpY3Q+CgkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5jcmVhdG9yPC9rZXk+CgkJCTxz
dHJpbmc+Y29tLmFwcGxlLmpvYnRpY2tldDwvc3RyaW5nPgoJCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmlu
dC50aWNrZXQuaXRlbUFycmF5PC9rZXk+CgkJCTxhcnJheT4KCQkJCTxkaWN0PgoJCQkJCTxrZXk+
Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LlBhZ2VGb3JtYXQuUE1BZGp1c3RlZFBhcGVyUmVjdDwva2V5PgoJCQkJ
CTxhcnJheT4KCQkJCQkJPHJlYWw+LTE4PC9yZWFsPgoJCQkJCQk8cmVhbD4tMTg8L3JlYWw+CgkJ
CQkJCTxyZWFsPjc3NDwvcmVhbD4KCQkJCQkJPHJlYWw+NTk0PC9yZWFsPgoJCQkJCTwvYXJyYXk+
CgkJCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0LnN0YXRlRmxhZzwva2V5PgoJCQkJCTxp
bnRlZ2VyPjA8L2ludGVnZXI+CgkJCQk8L2RpY3Q+CgkJCTwvYXJyYXk+CgkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCTxr
ZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LlBhcGVySW5mby5QTVBhcGVyTmFtZTwva2V5PgoJCTxkaWN0PgoJ
CQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuY3JlYXRvcjwva2V5PgoJCQk8c3RyaW5nPmNv
bS5hcHBsZS5qb2J0aWNrZXQ8L3N0cmluZz4KCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0
Lml0ZW1BcnJheTwva2V5PgoJCQk8YXJyYXk+CgkJCQk8ZGljdD4KCQkJCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBs
ZS5wcmludC5QYXBlckluZm8uUE1QYXBlck5hbWU8L2tleT4KCQkJCQk8c3RyaW5nPm5hLWxldHRl
cjwvc3RyaW5nPgoJCQkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5zdGF0ZUZsYWc8L2tl
eT4KCQkJCQk8aW50ZWdlcj4wPC9pbnRlZ2VyPgoJCQkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCQk8L2FycmF5PgoJCTwv
ZGljdD4KCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC5QYXBlckluZm8uUE1VbmFkanVzdGVkUGFnZVJl
Y3Q8L2tleT4KCQk8ZGljdD4KCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQudGlja2V0LmNyZWF0b3I8
L2tleT4KCQkJPHN0cmluZz5jb20uYXBwbGUuam9idGlja2V0PC9zdHJpbmc+CgkJCTxrZXk+Y29t
LmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5pdGVtQXJyYXk8L2tleT4KCQkJPGFycmF5PgoJCQkJPGRpY3Q+
CgkJCQkJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJpbnQuUGFwZXJJbmZvLlBNVW5hZGp1c3RlZFBhZ2VSZWN0
PC9rZXk+CgkJCQkJPGFycmF5PgoJCQkJCQk8aW50ZWdlcj4wPC9pbnRlZ2VyPgoJCQkJCQk8aW50
ZWdlcj4wPC9pbnRlZ2VyPgoJCQkJCQk8cmVhbD43MzQ8L3JlYWw+CgkJCQkJCTxyZWFsPjU3Njwv
cmVhbD4KCQkJCQk8L2FycmF5PgoJCQkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5zdGF0
ZUZsYWc8L2tleT4KCQkJCQk8aW50ZWdlcj4wPC9pbnRlZ2VyPgoJCQkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCQk8L2Fy
cmF5PgoJCTwvZGljdD4KCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC5QYXBlckluZm8uUE1VbmFkanVz
dGVkUGFwZXJSZWN0PC9rZXk+CgkJPGRpY3Q+CgkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tl
dC5jcmVhdG9yPC9rZXk+CgkJCTxzdHJpbmc+Y29tLmFwcGxlLmpvYnRpY2tldDwvc3RyaW5nPgoJ
CQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuaXRlbUFycmF5PC9rZXk+CgkJCTxhcnJheT4K
CQkJCTxkaWN0PgoJCQkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LlBhcGVySW5mby5QTVVuYWRqdXN0
ZWRQYXBlclJlY3Q8L2tleT4KCQkJCQk8YXJyYXk+CgkJCQkJCTxyZWFsPi0xODwvcmVhbD4KCQkJ
CQkJPHJlYWw+LTE4PC9yZWFsPgoJCQkJCQk8cmVhbD43NzQ8L3JlYWw+CgkJCQkJCTxyZWFsPjU5
NDwvcmVhbD4KCQkJCQk8L2FycmF5PgoJCQkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5z
dGF0ZUZsYWc8L2tleT4KCQkJCQk8aW50ZWdlcj4wPC9pbnRlZ2VyPgoJCQkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCQk8
L2FycmF5PgoJCTwvZGljdD4KCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC5QYXBlckluZm8ucHBkLlBN
UGFwZXJOYW1lPC9rZXk+CgkJPGRpY3Q+CgkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5j
cmVhdG9yPC9rZXk+CgkJCTxzdHJpbmc+Y29tLmFwcGxlLmpvYnRpY2tldDwvc3RyaW5nPgoJCQk8
a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQuaXRlbUFycmF5PC9rZXk+CgkJCTxhcnJheT4KCQkJ
CTxkaWN0PgoJCQkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LlBhcGVySW5mby5wcGQuUE1QYXBlck5h
bWU8L2tleT4KCQkJCQk8c3RyaW5nPlVTIExldHRlcjwvc3RyaW5nPgoJCQkJCTxrZXk+Y29tLmFw
cGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC5zdGF0ZUZsYWc8L2tleT4KCQkJCQk8aW50ZWdlcj4wPC9pbnRlZ2Vy
PgoJCQkJPC9kaWN0PgoJCQk8L2FycmF5PgoJCTwvZGljdD4KCQk8a2V5PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmlu
dC50aWNrZXQuQVBJVmVyc2lvbjwva2V5PgoJCTxzdHJpbmc+MDAuMjA8L3N0cmluZz4KCQk8a2V5
PmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmludC50aWNrZXQudHlwZTwva2V5PgoJCTxzdHJpbmc+Y29tLmFwcGxlLnBy
aW50LlBhcGVySW5mb1RpY2tldDwvc3RyaW5nPgoJPC9kaWN0PgoJPGtleT5jb20uYXBwbGUucHJp
bnQudGlja2V0LkFQSVZlcnNpb248L2tleT4KCTxzdHJpbmc+MDAuMjA8L3N0cmluZz4KCTxrZXk+
Y29tLmFwcGxlLnByaW50LnRpY2tldC50eXBlPC9rZXk+Cgk8c3RyaW5nPmNvbS5hcHBsZS5wcmlu
dC5QYWdlRm9ybWF0VGlja2V0PC9zdHJpbmc+CjwvZGljdD4KPC9wbGlzdD4KOEJJTQPtAAAAAAAQ
AEgAAAABAAEASAAAAAEAAThCSU0EJgAAAAAADgAAAAAAAAAAAAA/gAAAOEJJTQQNAAAAAAAEAAAA
HjhCSU0EGQAAAAAABAAAAB44QklNA/MAAAAAAAkAAAAAAAAAAAEAOEJJTQQKAAAAAAABAAA4QklN
JxAAAAAAAAoAAQAAAAAAAAABOEJJTQP1AAAAAABIAC9mZgABAGxmZgAGAAAAAAABAC9mZgABAKGZ
mgAGAAAAAAABADIAAAABAFoAAAAGAAAAAAABADUAAAABAC0AAAAGAAAAAAABOEJJTQP4AAAAAABw
AAD/////////////////////////////A+gAAAAA/////////////////////////////wPoAAAA
AP////////////////////////////8D6AAAAAD/////////////////////////////A+gAADhC
SU0EAAAAAAAAAgAAOEJJTQQCAAAAAAACAAA4QklNBDAAAAAAAAEBADhCSU0ELQAAAAAABgABAAAA
AzhCSU0ECAAAAAAAEAAAAAEAAAJAAAACQAAAAAA4QklNBB4AAAAAAAQAAAAAOEJJTQQaAAAAAANN
AAAABgAAAAAAAAAAAAADsgAAAw0AAAAMAEIATQBBAGQAYQB0AGEALgB0AGkAZgBmAAAAAQAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMNAAADsgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAABAAAAAAAAbnVsbAAAAAIAAAAGYm91bmRzT2JqYwAAAAEAAAAAAABSY3Qx
October 18, 2010 - November 12, 2010
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ju