AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-kd
February 13, 2011 - February 24, 2011
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php.
Mounting will be different.
If we use the latching capability, does is make circuitry simpler, more
reliable, better, stronger, faster, (will it help prevent icing? - sorry,
couldn't resist ;)
I'm w/ Bob, definitely needs more noodling..
-Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Open squelch |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
The new firmware was suppose to fix the intercom squelch issues which it may do
but in my case it seems they messed something up with the radio squelch....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330866#330866
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
At 08:01 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
>
>
>That is what the original poster was referring to. Even though the
>AOA is working perfectly, it is giving you false information.
I think this is the 'nut' of what has
yanked some folk's chains. Heated AOA
or IAS will indeed continue to MEASURE and
display the rudimentary stimulus that
the sensor watches. IAS measures
the DIFFERENCE of two pressures that
is translated into a CALIBRATED IAS
reading (complete with sweet-spots
. . . or sweet-bands)
AOA can be a vane that actually weather-
cocks to align with relative wind -or-
the system can measure pressure differentials.
Both of those phenomenon are calculated upon
interpreted, CALIBRATED data are displayed
along with sweet-spots intended to be
a guide for operation of the airplane.
The concept often missed is that these
sweet-spots are DERIVED numbers confirmed
by repeated flight tests. In no case does
either IAS or AOA directly measure the
the conditions (shape) that set flying qualities
of particular wing under conditions that
exist right now.
So while the heated instrument is indeed
performing as advertised in spite of icing
elsewhere on the airplane, prior CALIBRATIONS
for the sweet-spot are no longer valid. It's
perfectly GOOD information. IAS is correct.
AOA is correct. But the rules of application
have changed in ways that are difficult to scale
without taking off our GA pilot's hat and
putting on the engineering test pilot's hat.
Here the debate becomes purely personal.
Do you understand what's necessary to re-
interpret this data before you attempt a
landing? If so, it's your choice. But if
not so sure, then what behaviors (plan-b)
are most likely to produce a happy outcome
while ignoring previous calibrations of
compromised sweet-spots.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ALTRAK Dimmer Circuit |
| From: | "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa(at)hometel.com> |
Gang,
Nothing heard from the list. As an aside, I tried contacting Trutrak, but according
to the person I spoke, with the only tech who can answer my question only
corresponds via email. His response to my query seemed to indicate he either
didn't carefully read it, or he misunderstood it. I requested he call me to clarify,
but so far no joy.
Any help from the experts here would be greatly appreciated!
--------
Mark Sletten
Legacy FG N828LM
http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330874#330874
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
At 11:58 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Group
>
>I modified my Steinair D-sub crimper (and Jans the same time) by
>making new pins and moving them to the other side of the spring.
>
>See pics DSCN5312 thru 16:
>
>http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30957
>
>I believe the tool with the modified ratchet is probably for High
>Density pins, but with the ratchet ground off the last two clicks
>works well for D-subs as well. Anyway if you have a tool that is
>over-crimping D-sub machined pins, all hope is not lost
Hmmm . . . It's not clear to me that the tool "supplied
by Steinair" was stock. Over-crimping has never been an
issue with any of the Eclipse tools that I'm aware of.
Further, positioning of the spring has always been
such that it presses the entry end of the positioner
to the tools wire entry face.
A little lathe (or file and drill motor) sculpting
of a stock positioner will correct approximately
.040" of mis-positioning. Some more lathe work will
fabricate new positioners for HD pins. But in any case,
errors of penetration for the punches is a whole
new issue.
I'd certainly like to put my hands on any tools
that appear to be badly fabricated for this feature.
Bob . . .
>Ron Parigoris
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330857#330857
>
>
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: solid state relays |
At 12:45 AM 2/13/2011, you wrote:
>Hi Bob
>What is your opinion of these relays as replacements for the
>mechanical relays we have been using?
>Jim Robinson
Lamar (and perhaps others) have brought production
solid state contactors to the market that are
BI-DIRECTIONAL. I.e, the can both load and charge
a battery making them suitable for battery
contactors as opposed to rudimentary control
devices (relays).
Emacs!
I have no reason to believe they do not perform
as advertised. Lamar was going to send me one
to play with but I think that offer fell into
a crack. In any case, assuming they DO perform
as advertised, what are your design goals that
might drive a decision to substitute this product
into your airplane? Assuming further that your
airplane is architectured to offer a plan-b
for contactor failure, will this substitution offer
a demonstrable reduction in cost of ownership?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
| From: | "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa(at)hometel.com> |
kuffel(at)cyberport.net wrote:
> It will still tell me accurately if my angle of attack is well above stall with
clean wings. While I don't know what my stall margin actually is at the moment
I'm certainly better off than with no or incorrect AOA information.
That depends on how you interpret and use the data it provides. If you are flying
with an iced wing, the only data even the most accurate AOA indication provides
is that the wing is not stalling at the current AOA.
An AOA indicator is only that; an indicator. It tells you the current angle of
attack. Its only value lies in knowing a second crucial piece of data: at what
AOA the wing will stall. If your wing is iced you no longer have the second crucial
piece of data.
Given that you have not stalled, the AOA indicator is not providing data you don't
already have, that you have, in fact, not stalled. How does an accurate AOA
indication help in this scenario?
Mark Sletten
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330881#330881
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A210 issues with Radio (not intercom) squelch always |
open
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
If you are having problems with the your A210 radio squelch (not intercom) always being open or taking the max setting of 10 to prevent it from opening please contact http://www.icomamerica.com/en/contactusform.aspx?ContactType=TS and let them know so they might start to build a case on this one.
It seems that version 1.53 has changed the way the radio squelch works for the
worse...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330884#330884
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Open squelch |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
Tim,
Please visit http://www.icomamerica.com/en/contactusform.aspx?ContactType=TS and let them know about this so they might start creating a case on this one.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330883#330883
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
Bingo
Bob, Thanks for the summary
PaulW
========
At 07:04 AM 2/13/2011, you wrote:
>
>
>At 08:01 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>That is what the original poster was referring to. Even though the
>>AOA is working perfectly, it is giving you false information.
>
> I think this is the 'nut' of what has
> yanked some folk's chains. Heated AOA
> or IAS will indeed continue to MEASURE and
> display the rudimentary stimulus that
> the sensor watches. IAS measures
> the DIFFERENCE of two pressures that
> is translated into a CALIBRATED IAS
> reading (complete with sweet-spots
> . . . or sweet-bands)
>
> AOA can be a vane that actually weather-
> cocks to align with relative wind -or-
> the system can measure pressure differentials.
> Both of those phenomenon are calculated upon
> interpreted, CALIBRATED data are displayed
> along with sweet-spots intended to be
> a guide for operation of the airplane.
>
> The concept often missed is that these
> sweet-spots are DERIVED numbers confirmed
> by repeated flight tests. In no case does
> either IAS or AOA directly measure the
> the conditions (shape) that set flying qualities
> of particular wing under conditions that
> exist right now.
>
> So while the heated instrument is indeed
> performing as advertised in spite of icing
> elsewhere on the airplane, prior CALIBRATIONS
> for the sweet-spot are no longer valid. It's
> perfectly GOOD information. IAS is correct.
> AOA is correct. But the rules of application
> have changed in ways that are difficult to scale
> without taking off our GA pilot's hat and
> putting on the engineering test pilot's hat.
>
> Here the debate becomes purely personal.
> Do you understand what's necessary to re-
> interpret this data before you attempt a
> landing? If so, it's your choice. But if
> not so sure, then what behaviors (plan-b)
> are most likely to produce a happy outcome
> while ignoring previous calibrations of
> compromised sweet-spots.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <berkut13(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: solid state relays |
Jim,
I=99ve used them in several application in our projects. They
performed well (better than the mechanicals) in high stress applications
like running the hydraulic gear pump that is prone to fast on/off
re-press cycles. In fact, I liked them so much I replaced my old heavy
clunkers with the lighter Crydoms.
http://www.berkut13.com/berkut50.htm#SSR
Don=99t forget the =9Cfreewheel=9D diodes on motor
loads. The schematics are in the data sheet.
James Redmon
Berkut/Race 13
From: James Robinson
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:45 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: solid state relays
Hi Bob
What is your opinion of these relays as replacements for the mechanical
relays we have been using?
Jim Robinson
www.newark.com/crydom+relay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | solid state relays |
The Crydom units seem pretty cool & for certain applications they are ideal
but.. (putting on my devil's advocate hat..)
There are a couple of things to consider:
1. They seem a little pricey - Digikey lists them for ~$118 each. (the
equivalent 'can-type' contactor is ~$30)
2. If you need SPST or DPST contacts you are SOL
3. In many applications, you need to surround them w/ protection diodes
and/or MOVs or whatever (more components to mount & connect & possibly
fail.)
An example: (I'm just making this up;)
Let's say you want to run a PM motor forward & backward. You can create an
H bridge circuit w/ 2 mechanical SPDT relays pretty easily & for less than
$50.
To accomplish the same thing w/ the Crydoms you'll need 4 Crydom units.
(That's ~$500.) And some clever circuitry to prevent the wrong pairs of
relays from energizing at the same time. (so you don't release their
[expensive] magic smoke)
With the versatility of a properly-chosen good-old mechanical relay, it is
often possible to use the same relay in many different circuits aboard you
plane. That can mean reduced part# count. That's simpler, easier to keep
spares, allows emergency substitution, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all over semiconductors when they make circuitry
simpler, better, cheaper, etc. But until the price point comes down quite a
bit, it's hard to beat good-old mechanical relays.
-Jeff
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
berkut13(at)berkut13.com
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 09:28
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: solid state relays
Jim,
I've used them in several application in our projects. They performed well
(better than the mechanicals) in high stress applications like running the
hydraulic gear pump that is prone to fast on/off re-press cycles. In fact,
I liked them so much I replaced my old heavy clunkers with the lighter
Crydoms.
http://www.berkut13.com/berkut50.htm#SSR
Don't forget the "freewheel" diodes on motor loads. The schematics are in
the data sheet.
James Redmon
Berkut/Race 13
From: James Robinson <mailto:jbr79r(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:45 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: solid state relays
Hi Bob
What is your opinion of these relays as replacements for the mechanical
relays we have been using?
Jim Robinson
www.newark.com/crydom+relay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shorai LiFePO4 |
At 11:16 AM 1/31/2011, you wrote:
>
>Check out "Shorai".
>New light weight Japanese LiFePO4 battery with quite enthousiastic
>motorcyclist customers.
>Works well enough at low temperatures.
>Max. charging current 18A (no external shunts). Higher ratings coming.
>Has a 5 pin plug that I suspect may give access to the 4 cells.
>For our use I might want to monitor max. cell voltage to see <4V or
>interrupt charging.
Interesting offering. I had some conversation with
my battery guru of more than 30 years (Skip Koss)
last week. He was telling me of a Lithium product
being sold onto come of the smaller bizjets. Amazing
power to weight ratios when warm. But won't deliver
more than 200A at 0C. Operators take the battery
indoors for overnight storage at low temperatures.
He also told me that GM was on their third supplier
of lithium cells for offerings into the all
electric car market. Qualification hoop-jumping levied
by automobile manufacturers on purchased goods is
about 3x the thickness of an FAA qual package. It
does not bode well that a game of musical batteries
has not produced a solid winner so late in the
commitment to field a product. As the King of Siam
might note, "curiouser and curiouser".
Watch this space . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <berkut13(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: solid state relays |
What you wrote is all true...however....
At work, we were using the Leech Mill-Spec, inert gas filled, high-end
relays...they were still failing during circuit break due to arcing. 2
Crydoms were cheaper than 4 of these for an H-bridge. Admittedly, the
switch to SSRs was done in the interest of a quick fix to get the
vehicles back in air...but it did solve the problem. Putting the
mechanicals in the H-bridge config was not a guarantee that the failures
would not re-occur and we didn=99t want to pile on arc snubbers.
Personally, I had more than reliability reasons for the change =93
mainly weight, environmental concerns, and ease of retrofit.
-James
From: Jeff Luckey
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: solid state relays
The Crydom units seem pretty cool & for certain applications they are
ideal but.. (putting on my devil=99s advocate hat..)
There are a couple of things to consider:
1.. They seem a little pricey =93 Digikey lists them for ~$118
each. (the equivalent =98can-type=99 contactor is ~$30)
2.. If you need SPST or DPST contacts you are SOL
3.. In many applications, you need to surround them w/ protection
diodes and/or MOVs or whatever (more components to mount & connect &
possibly fail)
An example: (I=99m just making this up;)
Let=99s say you want to run a PM motor forward & backward. You
can create an H bridge circuit w/ 2 mechanical SPDT relays pretty easily
& for less than $50.
To accomplish the same thing w/ the Crydoms you=99ll need 4 Crydom
units. (That=99s ~$500.) And some clever circuitry to prevent
the wrong pairs of relays from energizing at the same time. (so you
don=99t release their [expensive] magic smoke)
With the versatility of a properly-chosen good-old mechanical relay, it
is often possible to use the same relay in many different circuits
aboard you plane. That can mean reduced part# count. That=99s
simpler, easier to keep spares, allows emergency substitution, etc.
Don=99t get me wrong, I=99m all over semiconductors when
they make circuitry simpler, better, cheaper, etc. But until the price
point comes down quite a bit, it=99s hard to beat good-old
mechanical relays.
-Jeff
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
berkut13(at)berkut13.com
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 09:28
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: solid state relays
Jim,
I=99ve used them in several application in our projects. They
performed well (better than the mechanicals) in high stress applications
like running the hydraulic gear pump that is prone to fast on/off
re-press cycles. In fact, I liked them so much I replaced my old heavy
clunkers with the lighter Crydoms.
http://www.berkut13.com/berkut50.htm#SSR
Don=99t forget the =9Cfreewheel=9D diodes on motor
loads. The schematics are in the data sheet.
James Redmon
Berkut/Race 13
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <ainut(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: solid state relays |
What concerns are there from "freewheel" diodes?
Thanks,
David M.
berkut13(at)berkut13.com wrote:
> Jim,
> Ive used them in several application in our projects. They performed
> well (better than the mechanicals) in high stress applications like
> running the hydraulic gear pump that is prone to fast on/off re-press
> cycles. In fact, I liked them so much I replaced my old heavy
> clunkers with the lighter Crydoms.
> http://www.berkut13.com/berkut50.htm#SSR
> Dont forget the freewheel diodes on motor loads. The schematics
> are in the data sheet.
> James Redmon
> Berkut/Race 13
> *From:* James Robinson
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:45 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: solid state relays
> Hi Bob
> What is your opinion of these relays as replacements for the
> mechanical relays we have been using?
> Jim Robinson
>
>
> www.newark.com/ <http://www.newark.com/>*crydom+relay*
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Machine Pin sub-D crimpers |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hi Bob
To clarify things, I was speaking about two separate tools, one from Steinair on
the right and one that was lent to me which is on the left.
The Steinair tool is on the right and crimps D-sub pins just fine. The problem
with the one I received was it had an aluminium spacer on the wrong side of the
spring, and even if you put it on the right side of the spring, it would not
properly position D-sub machined pins.
That said, the tool on the left which was lent to me has a nice machined brass
spacer that works perfect on the Steinair tool to position D-sub machined pins,
so I made one exactly the same as the tool on the left and installed it on my
Steinair tool on the right and now the Steinair tool works perfectly with machined
D-sub pins.
I made a comment about the tool on the left. It is plenty old if rust and corrosion
is any tell. I have no idea where it came from. The dies are different compared
to the Steinair tool. If you insert a D-sub machined pin and squeeze the
tool all the way it will over crimp. Someone ground off two of the ratchet teeth
where instead of having to squeeze 5 notches before the tool releases, it
releases after three ratchet notches. If you are careful it works fine on machined
D-sub pins if you only click three times. I know the tool is designed for
slightly smaller diameter pins and made mention if someone else happens to have
one of these and tries to crimp a D-sub machined pin and obviously notices
it overcrimps, by grinding off a few notches you can easily get by with this
tool, and if you need to crimp smaller diameter pins, just crimp all the way.
Sorry for any confusion.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330952#330952
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <berkut13(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: solid state relays |
>From diodes? Point them the correct direction.
>From the motor...there is a reverse break down current generated when the
power to the motor is cut off. That reverse flow of current is not good for
the MOSFET inside the SSR. The diodes channel that current back to the
robust windings of the motor (freewheeling) instead of making the SSR
convert it to heat.
Fun stuff, no?
-James
-----Original Message-----
From: David
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: solid state relays
What concerns are there from "freewheel" diodes?
Thanks,
David M.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: solid state relays |
I currently have one com antenna in the vertical of my Glasair. I only have one
comm radio SL30. I have been thinking of adding a second com radio, possibly a
Garmin 430. Will I need an audio panel also? Can both radios share the one
antenna? Or what would be the best arrangement for the setup?
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
My comment on icing and AOA systems ~~If you encounter any type of icing
turn the AOA OFF unless you have full de-icing vane & aircraft. We
haven't even done R&D on a heated vane because of liability. Even Boeing can't
give you hard numbers with icing on wings. Heated vane and icing on wings
is NOT a good deal!
Elbie Mendenhall, EM Aviation, LLC _www.riteangle.com_
(http://www.riteangle.com)
Is it your understanding that Elbie
> claims that the "sweet spot" on his or any other
> AOA display is golden under all challenges that
> a pilot might face for comfortable arrival with
> the earth?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
Jeff,
What I mean by noisy is 86 dB. That is the noise generated by the device
as listed on the Tyco web site.
86 dB, while not immediately damaging to hearing, is very loud and can
damage hearing if experienced over time.
I wasn't referring to "noise" that would interfere with radio
transmissions.
1. I don't know if the noise is continuous. Check with Tyco.
2. My experience with contactors normally used in aircraft is that the only
significant noise generated is when the contactor is initially excited and
the noise is the mechanical movement rather than an electrical noise.
Thus, if the Tyco web site information is correct and if the noise is
continuous, then my estimate is that the Tyco device is noisier than traditional
solenoids.
3. No.
Stan Sutterfield
In a message dated 2/13/2011 3:01:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com writes:
Not sure what you mean by noisy. Can you be more specific?
1. Is the noise continuous?
2. Is this device any noisier than the traditional solenoid?
3. Have you done some kind of testing or do you have you worked w/ this
device?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Falstad <bobair(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground |
Bob N., et al,
I'm getting closer to powering up my new IFR panel. I need a source of power for
an extended period of time on the ground without the engine running for checking
out the systems, their initial set-up, and for training myself on the real
boxes. I have a BatteryMINDer charger/maintainer and a Radio Shack power supply
whose output is rated at 13.8 VDC at 15 Amps.
Should I just disconnect the main battery and use the power supply in its place?
Can I hook the power supply up to the battery + and - terminals and use it
as a "battery booster" (or would this toast the battery)? Should I just use the
battery and charge it overnight with the BatteryMINDer? Other?
I intend to bring up one circuit at a time and I want to measure each circuit's
actual power consumption and I'll need to be careful not to overload the power
supply.
Best regards,
Bob Falstad
GlaStar N248BF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
Stan,
I thought you were referring to electrical noise and thus was a little
confused. I'm certain that it is not a continuous noise - just a single
"thunk" or loud click when switching. The mechanical noise it makes when
switching has never been a design criteria for me. (we aren't talking about
nuclear submarines here;).
Thanks for the clarification.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 19:29
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery disconnect switch
Jeff,
What I mean by noisy is 86 dB. That is the noise generated by the device as
listed on the Tyco web site.
86 dB, while not immediately damaging to hearing, is very loud and can
damage hearing if experienced over time.
I wasn't referring to "noise" that would interfere with radio transmissions.
1. I don't know if the noise is continuous. Check with Tyco.
2. My experience with contactors normally used in aircraft is that the only
significant noise generated is when the contactor is initially excited and
the noise is the mechanical movement rather than an electrical noise. Thus,
if the Tyco web site information is correct and if the noise is continuous,
then my estimate is that the Tyco device is noisier than traditional
solenoids.
3. No.
Stan Sutterfield
In a message dated 2/13/2011 3:01:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com writes:
Not sure what you mean by noisy. Can you be more specific?
1. Is the noise continuous?
2. Is this device any noisier than the traditional solenoid?
3. Have you done some kind of testing or do you have you worked w/ this
device?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | No click when pushing PTT |
| From: | "N777TY" <microsmurfer(at)yahoo.com> |
Just trying to start the troubleshooting of a strange issue I have in my plane.
When I push PTT button while COM2 is selected, I don't get that click at the
beginning of transmission... The radio transmits just fine.. just doesn't give
that click. COM1 works fine. Both are using same PTT button and are wired
into the PSE 8000 audio panel. (COM1 is Garmin 530W and COM2 is Garmin 430W)
Since the radio works fine it's a somewhat lower priority issue, but it does cause
a problem when flying at night... I cannot turn on the runway lights with
the second radio because the click isn't there...
Tried swapping antenna leads but that didn't help... haven't tried anything else
yet.. looking for some ideas.. Thanks!
--------
RV-7A
N777TY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330985#330985
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Inexpensive HID light data point |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
I bought a pair of 35W HID lights from Ebay to replace the bulbs in my 55w Duckworks
kit that was a set of fog lights converted to use with their brackets. I
got the 6000K H3 bulbs because I wanted white white light. The 55w halogens always
looked very warm in color. The HID kit was advertised as a "Digital" ballast
kit. After looking at a million sites selling these things it seems that
almost all of them are clones of one another and or made by the same shop in China.
The kit I bought was ~$37 delivered for the pair. I did open the ballast
after I received them and they do appear to be mostly electronic but there was
a small transformer in there. The inside was sprayed/potted with a rubber coating
so it was hard to tell what was really in there.
Anyway....I mounted the ballast to the back of the Duckworks bracket using the
mounting bracket that came with the kit. I did modify the bracket somewhat to
cut off extra that was not needed. The wiring was simple as pie.
After mounting everything and turning them on, I can honestly say that these things
are at least three times brighter than the 55w halogens. Here is a comparison,
the left side is the HID, the right is the 55w halogen:
Here they are straight on with the beam:
Same shot with the old 55w:
I had to leave the airport before it got dark so I did not get any other pics.
One thing...I tried to wig-wag these after they warmed up but that was a no go!!!
They will not wig-wag with the NAPA flasher relay!!! Maybe they would with
one of the solid state wig-waggers but they won't with the NAPA relay. It just
buzzed and sounded like it was going to fry itself so I stopped trying after
a second or two.
I have always been afraid to try and regain my night currency (never had it in
a TW airplane) with those dim 55w halogens. Maybe now I can give it a whirl.
Just ordered one of these http://www.soundoffsignal.com/warnamber/flashers/Headlight/ETHFSS-SP.htm . Since it is totally solid state, maybe it will work. It also has a few different flash speeds to pick from.
Here is an iPhone Video of my new inexpensive HID's wig-wagging with the new flashed
I installed. Works better than great!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY7UcK6XD2s
To finish the story on my inexpensive HID lights, after flying with them for some
time I did notice that they reflected a ton of high frequency noise back onto
the power lines. This is clearly evident when listening to the background noise
on any non-active com channel with the squelch in test mode or open.
This noise also caused my Dynon's DSAB bus to drop out...really bad in Wig-Wag
mode...
The HIDs initially give a pretty good "bezerp" when they ignite and then they settle
into just plain old static. The noise threshold is obvioulsy increased quite
a bit.
The Wig-Wag mode only exacerbates this issue. If they are warm, the Wig-Wag does
not bezerp each time they come on, they ignite instantly with no "bezerp" but
the noise floor is still elevated.
Those that know a little about radio will understand that just because you can
squelch out background noise, it is not desirable to just mask the issue since
an increased or high noise threshold can cause your AGC circuit in the radio
to automatically reduce the sensitivity of the receiver resulting in poor performance.
That being said, Here was the fix:
I installed a Ferrite Core as close to the HID ballast as possible. I wrapped the
power and ground wires thru the core three times each. Ferrite cores act as
a choke to high frequencies basically blocking them at the source before they
can do any harm.
I also installed a .1uF capacitor across the power and ground wires right behind
the ferrite core. This capacitor functions as a decoupling capacitor and will
shunt any high frequencies that get past the ferrite core to ground before they
can travel back up the power wire.
The ferrite core I used is similar to this one:
The results are complete elimination of the noise reflected back onto the aircraft's
systems. No noticable noise floor increase, no Dynon DSAB dropouts!!! Could
not even tell I had switched them on and the Wig-Wag only results in some
very slight clicks over the intercom.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331009#331009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 08:03 PM 2/13/2011, you wrote:
>My comment on icing and AOA systems ~~If you encounter any type
>of icing turn the AOA OFF unless you have full de-icing vane &
>aircraft. We haven't even done R&D on a heated vane because of
>liability. Even Boeing can't give you hard numbers with icing on
>wings. Heated vane and icing on wings is NOT a good deal!
>Elbie Mendenhall, EM Aviation,
>LLC <http://www.riteangle.com>www.riteangle.com
Exactly. The fleet of bizjets at HBC were all
qualified for flight into known ice. Everything
was heated or hammered.
I'll have to call some of my jet-jockey friends
at HBC and inquire as to words in the POH concerning
usefulness and cautions about AOA displays
on the production fleet.
I worked a REALLY strange problem on the Beechjet
some years back were pilots experienced loss of
IAS on BOTH sides of the airplane. Displays always
recovered at lower, warmer altitudes.
This often occurred in relatively clear air.
There was a LOT of brainstorming by a LOT
of grey beards as to the physics behind this
rare but disturbing event.
My task involved cutting a pitot tube open,
peppering it with thermocouples and putting
it back together again so that we could study
not only temperatures at the surfaces to be
de-iced but internally. There was some question
of ice crystals bouncing through the labyrinth
of pressure channels only to melt and re-freeze
inside the pitot tube.
During the fire drill for sniffing out root cause,
somebody asked the question: "How does the existence
of a working AOA display help the pilot who is
temporarily deprived of IAS?" Good question.
The Beechjet had been fitted with AOA indication
since its birth as the Mitusbishi Diamondjet.
But nobody had ever researched and written the
approve procedure for using AOA as an aid to
maneuvering without IAS.
That amendment was quickly added to the POH.
I'm not sure we ever deduced how pitot pressure
was being obstructed. I'll have to ask how that
problem resolved too. But it was interesting
that a perfectly useful display had existed
for so long but was never fully developed as a
component of plan-b, plan-c, etc. Shucks, with
DUAL air data systems, what are the odds?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | HID Light marketing |
There seems to be a lot of marketing ploys etc. for the HID lights. I have
a couple of questions to help clearify the hype. Some of the descriptions
say HID type lights with halogen bulbs, and some are HID devices with xenon
bulbs.
1. Does a true HID light use only a xenon lamp?
2. Is a so called HID type Halogen a real HID light, with the same
brightness as a xenon?
3. Does anyone have a temperature/color spectrum chart for HID lights?
example: 6000K, 10000k
4. Does anyone have a chart/description for Lamp configurations? Example:
H3
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HID Light marketing |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
HID Lights use an Arc Tube bulb. No filament like a Halogen
HID Type Halogens are not HID
I used the 6000K H3 bulbs. 5000K-6000K is about as white as white can get!
Here you go:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331029#331029
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HID Light marketing |
If you have a look at an e-bay listing (example here - e-bay listing #
280629659435) they give a colour chart v Ktemps
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: HID Light marketing
>
>
> There seems to be a lot of marketing ploys etc. for the HID lights. I
> have a couple of questions to help clearify the hype. Some of the
> descriptions say HID type lights with halogen bulbs, and some are HID
> devices with xenon bulbs.
>
> 1. Does a true HID light use only a xenon lamp?
>
> 2. Is a so called HID type Halogen a real HID light, with the same
> brightness as a xenon?
>
> 3. Does anyone have a temperature/color spectrum chart for HID lights?
> example: 6000K, 10000k
>
> 4. Does anyone have a chart/description for Lamp configurations?
> Example: H3
>
> Roger
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground |
> Can I hook the power supply up to the battery + and - terminals
> and use it as a "battery booster" (or would this toast the
> battery)? Should I just use the battery and charge it overnight
> with the BatteryMINDer? Other?
Most power supplies are NOT intended to work
in conjunction with a battery. The primary
difficulty arises when the battery is connected
to a powered down power supply. Output monitoring
and ov protection in many supplies do not like to
be "back fed" from an external power source.
My favorite technique uses a hefty switchmode
power supply similar to this:
http://tinyurl.com/4aoszlf
Combine this supply with a power diode (to
prevent back feeding) and a relay to emulate
the "field control" input on your ship's
alternator. The relay controls 120 vac going
into the power supply.
You can connect this AC mains powered "alternator"
in place of the ship's alternator. With the
alternator emulator ON, adjust the power supply
for a 14.2 volt bus.
The ship's load meter (if installed) can be
used to monitor loads on the power supply. This
will allow you to run the ship's battery in
parallel to let it pick up any transient loads
that might exceed the ratings of the power supply.
>I intend to bring up one circuit at a time and I want to measure
>each circuit's actual power consumption and I'll need to be careful
>not to overload the power supply.
If it's a switchmode supply, it will have built
in overload protection. Further, the supply I
linked above has a thermostatically controlled
fan built in that turns on when the supply is
being taxed to rated output.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground |
>I have a BatteryMINDer charger/maintainer and a Radio Shack power
>supply whose output is rated at 13.8 VDC at 15 Amps.
>
>Should I just disconnect the main battery and use the power supply
>in its place? Can I hook the power supply up to the battery + and -
>terminals and use it as a "battery booster" (or would this toast the battery)?
Forgot to touch on this. Your existing supply output
voltage is not high enough to hook directly across a
battery and still have the recommended isolation
(back feed prevention) diode. So you can use the
power supply to emulate a battery. Disconnect
the battery and put the power supply in its place.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 10:32 PM 2/13/2011, you wrote:
>
>Just trying to start the troubleshooting of a strange issue I have
>in my plane. When I push PTT button while COM2 is selected, I don't
>get that click at the beginning of transmission... The radio
>transmits just fine.. just doesn't give that click. COM1 works
>fine. Both are using same PTT button and are wired into the PSE
>8000 audio panel. (COM1 is Garmin 530W and COM2 is Garmin 430W)
>
>Since the radio works fine it's a somewhat lower priority issue, but
>it does cause a problem when flying at night... I cannot turn on the
>runway lights with the second radio because the click isn't there...
>
>Tried swapping antenna leads but that didn't help... haven't tried
>anything else yet.. looking for some ideas.. Thanks!
Are you expecting to get an audible click from the
radio itself? I think the use of electro-mechanical
relays common to transceivers for 50 years have
been replaced with all solid state switching. If
the radio is working, it's probably performing as
advertised.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wig Wags |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
Tom,
You can Wig-Wag HID's with the right flasher. The Napa relay won't work but this
one will:
http://www.soundoffsignal.com/warnamber/flashers/Headlight/ETHFSS-SP.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY7UcK6XD2s
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331052#331052
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protection |
| From: | "markcs" <markcs(at)btinternet.com> |
I live in the UK where the Rotax 912 with its 18 amp Permanent Magnet Alternator
(PMA) is ubiquitous.
Many folks are now fitting very expensive avionics in their Rotax engined aircraft
and are keen to guard against over voltage (I know how rare that is with PMA
regulators - but it does occasionally happen).
The only device that I have come across to meet this need is the excellent B&C
505-1 (I have B&C alternators on my RV - outstanding pieces of kit). I spoke
to TJ at B&C who could not have been more helpful but did explain that the 505
had not been tested an any other PMA other than their own alternators and so
he could not formally recommend it for the Rotax PMA or any other PMA for that
matter - a position which I understand.
As I understand it the 505 OV module controls the relay which takes the output
from the PMA regulator. If an OV event occurs the OV module releases the main
relay contacts and so cuts off the supply voltage to the main bus. If my understanding
is not wildly out it would appear that the 505 could be used successfully
on almost any PMA (Relay current limitations not withstanding) including
the Rotax.
I would be grateful for any experiences of members who have used the 505 on PMA's
such as the Rotax etc, or any another comments about the 505 generic suitability,
and who could confirm whether or not they agree that the 505 seems suitable
as a generic PMA OV device.
Many thanks
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331083#331083
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HID Light marketing |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
Thanks for your article in the previous message. Do you have any more
specifics about the bulbs that you are using?
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Brantel wrote:
>
> HID Lights use an Arc Tube bulb. No filament like a Halogen
>
> HID Type Halogens are not HID
>
> I used the 6000K H3 bulbs. 5000K-6000K is about as white as white can get!
>
> Here you go:
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331029#331029
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground |
| From: | Don Hudgeon <don(at)hudgeon.com> |
This may be slightly off topic but is there anything wrong with charging my
a/c battery (modern automatic charger) without disconnecting from the
battery terminals from the a/c? I hook up the charger occasionally in order
to maintain the battery if I am not flying regularly. Also,if I am testing
electrical components such as radios or lights I have the charger hooked up
in order to more accurately simulate actual alternator operation. The a/c
engine is a Rotax 912UL. Is there something wrong with this reasoning?
Don
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> I have a BatteryMINDer charger/maintainer and a Radio Shack power supply
>> whose output is rated at 13.8 VDC at 15 Amps.
>>
>> Should I just disconnect the main battery and use the power supply in its
>> place? Can I hook the power supply up to the battery + and - terminals and
>> use it as a "battery booster" (or would this toast the battery)?
>>
>
> Forgot to touch on this. Your existing supply output
> voltage is not high enough to hook directly across a
> battery and still have the recommended isolation
> (back feed prevention) diode. So you can use the
> power supply to emulate a battery. Disconnect
> the battery and put the power supply in its place.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HID Light marketing |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
I used the 6000K H3 bulbs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331090#331090
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
| From: | "N777TY" <microsmurfer(at)yahoo.com> |
Yes, I'm expecting a click.. Considering that the other one which is same technology
(ie, not a case of old vs. new) I'd think the expectation is reasonable
:) Don't remember last time I ran into this situation in any plane ... so what
I'm experiencing on COM2 is not typical.. Looking for ideas what to look
at..
--------
RV-7A
N777TY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331092#331092
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 07:02 PM 2/14/2011, you wrote:
>
>Yes, I'm expecting a click.. Considering that the other one which
>is same technology (ie, not a case of old vs. new) I'd think the
>expectation is reasonable :) Don't remember last time I ran into
>this situation in any plane ... so what I'm experiencing on COM2 is
>not typical.. Looking for ideas what to look at..
Maybe I missed something . . . is the radio
misbehaving in any other way that being
free of audible noises when you hit the
PTT button?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground |
At 05:49 PM 2/14/2011, you wrote:
>This may be slightly off topic but is there anything wrong with
>charging my a/c battery (modern automatic charger) without
>disconnecting from the battery terminals from the a/c? I hook up the
>charger occasionally in order to maintain the battery if I am not
>flying regularly. Also,if I am testing electrical components such as
>radios or lights I have the charger hooked up in order to more
>accurately simulate actual alternator operation. The a/c engine is a
>Rotax 912UL. Is there something wrong with this reasoning?
No, as long as your external power source is INTENDED
to be connected across a battery (and will not be damaged
if the input power is disconnected while the battery
is still attached) then there's no reason not to leave
it connected during ground ops.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protection |
At 04:49 PM 2/14/2011, you wrote:
>
>I live in the UK where the Rotax 912 with its 18 amp Permanent
>Magnet Alternator (PMA) is ubiquitous.
>
>Many folks are now fitting very expensive avionics in their Rotax
>engined aircraft and are keen to guard against over voltage (I know
>how rare that is with PMA regulators - but it does occasionally happen).
Recommend you use the parts supplied in the BC505-1 kit
and wire per
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z16M.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
Bob;
I think you might have missed the part where he said that his com 2 radio
will not activate pilot controlled lighting whereas his com 1 will. He is
associating the "missing click" with the inability to activate the lighting
systems. Other than this one item it operates "normally"
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 8:13 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
>
>
>
> At 07:02 PM 2/14/2011, you wrote:
> >
> >Yes, I'm expecting a click.. Considering that the other one which
> >is same technology (ie, not a case of old vs. new) I'd think the
> >expectation is reasonable :) Don't remember last time I ran into
> >this situation in any plane ... so what I'm experiencing on COM2 is
> >not typical.. Looking for ideas what to look at..
>
> Maybe I missed something . . . is the radio
> misbehaving in any other way that being
> free of audible noises when you hit the
> PTT button?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
| From: | "N777TY" <microsmurfer(at)yahoo.com> |
Yes, the radio works fine otherwise (as in, it transmits fine). COM1 produces
the click (hence I can turn on the runway lights). COM2 doesn't do that. It's
not audible, and consequently lights don't come on..
I can hear the click on COM1 (and as a result, lights can be turned on, for example)..
--------
RV-7A
N777TY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331101#331101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
On 2/14/2011 8:58 PM, N777TY wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N777TY"
>
> Yes, the radio works fine otherwise (as in, it transmits fine). COM1 produces
the click (hence I can turn on the runway lights). COM2 doesn't do that. It's
not audible, and consequently lights don't come on..
>
> I can hear the click on COM1 (and as a result, lights can be turned on, for example)..
>
> --------
> RV-7A
> N777TY
I would expect the light control radio to trigger on just the carrier,
but for troubleshooting purposes you might try synthesizing a click
verbally while holding the xmit button for each trigger, & see if the
light control radio would respond to that, assuming that it really needs
to see audio on the carrier.
I'd also ask the control radio's mfgr about whether it just listens for
carrier or not.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vx Aviation expands it's EFIS Wiring Hub Product Line |
This is a follow up to a previous announcement made on 'Lectric List. I've
been a long time follower and contributer, and I hope this is of interest to
many.
Thanks,
Vern Little
Vx Aviation www.vx-aviation.com
Summary of Announcement:
========================
Vx Aviation Enhances EFIS Wiring Hub Family
VICTORIA, BC---February 15, 2011---Vx Aviation today announced the
introduction of three new AXIS wiring hub devices for the interconnect of
Electronic Flight Information Systems (EFIS) to other avionics and
instrumentation behind the instrument panel in owner-built aircraft.
The new AXIS-9A, AXIS-25A and GBX-25A join the previously announced AXIS-15A
to provide a complete family of wiring hubs. The AXIS-9A is specific to the
Dynon SkyView Network and functions as a multi-port splitter, providing a
9-wire backplane and allowing up to five SkyView Network compatible
instruments to be connected together. The AXIS-25A is a general-purpose
25-wire backplane with five connectors that facilitate the wiring of modern
avionics panels that have a large number of RS-232, ARINC-429 and similar
data interconnects, such as would be found on IFR panels. The GBX-25A is a
ground bus wiring block that simplifies the distribution of low-current
ground or power by providing 25 bused connections.
========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
I am considering a second radio. I currently have a SL30. I would like to add
a second radio, but only have 1 antenna. Can 2 radios share 1 antenna? Are
there problems with this approach? Will I have to add a audio panel?
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 9:06:47 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground
Can I hook the power supply up to the battery + and - terminals and use it as
a "battery booster" (or would this toast the battery)? Should I just use the
battery and charge it overnight with the BatteryMINDer? Other?
Most power supplies are NOT intended to work
in conjunction with a battery. The primary
difficulty arises when the battery is connected
to a powered down power supply. Output monitoring
and ov protection in many supplies do not like to
be "back fed" from an external power source.
My favorite technique uses a hefty switchmode
power supply similar to this:
http://tinyurl.com/4aoszlf
Combine this supply with a power diode (to
prevent back feeding) and a relay to emulate
the "field control" input on your ship's
alternator. The relay controls 120 vac going
into the power supply.
You can connect this AC mains powered "alternator"
in place of the ship's alternator. With the
alternator emulator ON, adjust the power supply
for a 14.2 volt bus.
The ship's load meter (if installed) can be
used to monitor loads on the power supply. This
will allow you to run the ship's battery in
parallel to let it pick up any transient loads
that might exceed the ratings of the power supply.
I intend to bring up one circuit at a time and I want to measure each circuit's
actual power consumption and I'll need to be careful not to overload the power
supply.
If it's a switchmode supply, it will have built
in overload protection. Further, the supply I
linked above has a thermostatically controlled
fan built in that turns on when the supply is
being taxed to rated output.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Jim
If it is possible to share an aerial, do you want to? It would be a single
point of failure for both radios... Every time I've has an issue with my
radio, it's been an antenna problem (about 4 times in 12 years). Having an
independent radio is more useful to me as a backup than a convenience, and
so would require an independent aerial. But that's me!
Thanks
Etienne
On 15 February 2011 08:05, James Robinson wrote:
> I am considering a second radio. I currently have a SL30. I would like to
> add a second radio, but only have 1 antenna. Can 2 radios share 1 antenna?
> Are there problems with this approach? Will I have to add a audio panel?
> Jim
>
> James Robinson
> Glasair lll N79R
> Spanish Fork UT U77
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 08:58 PM 2/14/2011, you wrote:
>
>Yes, the radio works fine otherwise (as in, it transmits
>fine). COM1 produces the click (hence I can turn on the runway
>lights). COM2 doesn't do that. It's not audible, and consequently
>lights don't come on..
>
>I can hear the click on COM1 (and as a result, lights can be turned
>on, for example)..
When you say 'transmits fine' do I presume that
you can communicate with some distant facility?
If on the ground, can you talk to say a distant
aircraft and the pilot reports strong signal on
either radio?
Suggest you get a rough reading on power output.
You can do this with the most rudimentary of
SWR meters if you don't have access to a real
wattmeter. Use the meter to check the #1 system
and set the device for a full scale, forward
reading on #1 then move it to #2 without changing
the calibration.
Talking to another airplane in the hangar or
to a local hand held might appear to be just
fine when in fact, transmitted power output is
a tiny fraction of what it should be.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
lights up the transmitter is active. Of course you can also see if you are
putting out any power by inserting an SWR meter in the antenna feed line.
In this case where you are only looking for the presence of power the
cheapest of SWR meters will suffice.
As Bob said, gone are the days when there were mechanical relays happily
chattering open and closed with every transmission.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N777TY
Sent: February 14, 2011 9:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
Yes, I'm expecting a click.. Considering that the other one which is same
technology (ie, not a case of old vs. new) I'd think the expectation is
reasonable :) Don't remember last time I ran into this situation in any
plane ... so what I'm experiencing on COM2 is not typical.. Looking for
ideas what to look at..
--------
RV-7A
N777TY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331092#331092
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
>I would expect the light control radio to trigger on just the
>carrier, but for troubleshooting purposes you might try synthesizing
>a click verbally while holding the xmit button for each trigger, &
>see if the light control radio would respond to that, assuming that
>it really needs to see audio on the carrier.
>
>I'd also ask the control radio's mfgr about whether it just listens
>for carrier or not.
If the lighting control system needs audio, it would
be a published feature. Some of the early lighting
control systems were jury-rigged onto the facility's
unicom radio. It was a circuit that needed to see
a sweeping frequency tone that pilots were expected
to generate by whistling.
I haven't seen one of those in service in 30 years.
They're all carrier operated now and generally have
their own dedicated receiver.
I would certainly resolve the power output question
first.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 12:24 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>Hi Jim
>
>If it is possible to share an aerial, do you want to? It would be a
>single point of failure for both radios... Every time I've has an
>issue with my radio, it's been an antenna problem (about 4 times in
>12 years). Having an independent radio is more useful to me as a
>backup than a convenience, and so would require an independent
>aerial. But that's me!
>
Excellent point. Antenna duplexers for transceivers
are not cheap. Two antennas are certainly the least
expensive and most reliable configuration. You don't
need an audio panel but probably an audio isolation
amplifier as described in the 'Connection's audio
chapter.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z16M.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Low Ohms Adapters |
I was able to finish the batch before I had
to leave M.L. on important matters last Saturday.
Had a Valentine's day appointment with my grandkids
and later my wife!
I've been in Lindsborg the last few days and
will be back in the shop this afternoon. All
low ohms adapters on order will go out first
class mail this afternoon.
I've not finished the official instruction sheet
but there's probably enough info in these photos
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9008/
to noodle out how the critter is used. I'll announce
publication of the official instruction sheet
as soon as it's posted.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>
>I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
>transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
>transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
>ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
>unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
>lights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah, that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51, neon bulbs around.
Emacs!
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage, high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
| From: | Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com> |
I'll have a stab at it - when the switch is open, the chassis sits at line
voltage?
On 15 February 2011 16:49, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
> this as-published diagram?
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
#1 The chassis is directly connected to the line.
#2 the switch is in what is hopefully the ground side of the line.
#3 It's probably old enough that the line plug is not polarized and the cha
ssis may be attached to the "hot" side of the line.
More than one person has been electrocuted with such a layout.
Bob McC
Date: Tue=2C 15 Feb 2011 08:49:32 -0600
From: nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011=2C you wrote:
>
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
lights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah=2C that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51=2C neon bulbs around.
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage=2C high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
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fSiilV/jP+u5nU6fP9D/2Q=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 09:04 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>I'll have a stab at it - when the switch is open, the chassis sits
>at line voltage?
Right on! I'd built a number of transformer-less
circuits where injudicious wiring and positioning
of switches could put a chassis at above ground
potentials.
Since all ham gear was expected to be well
grounded for reasons of antenna performance,
it made sense to use the SAME ground as the
power return for the device. Make the line-cord
a one-wire lead that was switched. If the
gizmo didn't power up, reverse the plug. But
in no case was the properly grounded system at
risk for presenting a shock hazard.
So called AC/DC radios popular at the time
were always housed in a wood or plastic case.
Quite often, the line-connected 'ground' within
the appliance was floating from the chassis.
When launching a line-powered, transformer-less
DIY project, it was good to understand such
things.
Good eye!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
At 09:16 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>#1 The chassis is directly connected to the line.
>#2 the switch is in what is hopefully the ground side of the line.
>#3 It's probably old enough that the line plug is not polarized and
>the chassis may be attached to the "hot" side of the line.
>
>More than one person has been electrocuted with such a layout.
Yup . . . you're tied for first place.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs" |
What is the appropriate way to handle the shield part of "shielded" wire
when wiring using a commercial "hub" or a diy "hub"? For
intercom/aviionics use.
Thanks, Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
I'll take a stab at it.
The crystal and the heater for the tube are both powered by 115VAC.
Considering the potential instability in both the voltage coming from the
wall and possible changes in the frequency of the AC current it may be a bit
edgy.
Noel
Now give us the real reason. Please!
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: February 15, 2011 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
lights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah, that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51, neon bulbs around.
Emacs!
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage, high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
Certainly a short across the 1 muff cap could cause that.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Etienne
Phillips
Sent: February 15, 2011 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
I'll have a stab at it - when the switch is open, the chassis sits at line
voltage?
On 15 February 2011 16:49, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
Many years ago I had a radio/Amplifier which the chassis could be hot if it
was plugged in that way you would get a terrible AC hum from the speakers...
I always put it down to the shielding on the tubes being hot. Yes I did get
several good roots from that thing until I realized that turning the plug
around removed the AC hum.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: February 15, 2011 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
#1 The chassis is directly connected to the line.
#2 the switch is in what is hopefully the ground side of the line.
#3 It's probably old enough that the line plug is not polarized and the
chassis may be attached to the "hot" side of the line.
More than one person has been electrocuted with such a layout.
Bob McC
_____
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 08:49:32 -0600
From: nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
lights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah, that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51, neon bulbs around.
Emacs!
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage, high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protection |
| From: | "markcs" <markcs(at)btinternet.com> |
Bob,
Many thanks for your reply. Your time is always much appreciated.
Regards
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331164#331164
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 02/14/11 |
Bob,
Excellent comments on the list
I was a designated examiner & PPE for about 7 years on the CE 500/550
series and along with the FAA used the AOA to see if the applicant had used
the "bug card" correctly in figuring his approach speeds. If I recall
correctly was 1 Kt per mark on the AOA scale. Tell the appplicant it looked
as
if he was in error on his approach speeds by a couple knots he would look
at you like you were crazy, then refigure and guess what, we were exactly
correct, told the applicant to use equipment he had in his plane! Navy
pilots lived by AOA, they are among my best customers.
I had a pitot line freeze on a D-50 T-Bon in the late 60's seems a
mechanic had bent it to make it easier to attach an engine mount, however just
outside the cowling it had made a low spot. I lost all airspeed at about
11,000 in IMC, declared an emergency and descended into Prescott, AZ finally
getting airspeed back in final turn in holding pattern prior to approach at
0200 AM Been there done that.
In a message dated 2/15/2011 12:00:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com writes:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs" |
At 01:56 PM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
>What is the appropriate way to handle the shield part of "shielded"
>wire when wiring using a commercial "hub" or a diy "hub"? For
>intercom/aviionics use.
>
>Thanks, Skip
Instructions for installation/fabrication should
speak to at least one pin in every connector reserved
for the purpose of connecting to shield grounds.
All shields in a bundle can be daisy-chained such
that the shields can be handled on a single wire
in one pin of the plug.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
At 03:39 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
>
>
>If you are an EAA member you can see ALL back issues of Sport
>Aviation on http://www.oshkosh365.org
>
>If that doesn't do it for you I do have the 2005 issues but I would
>have to see what issue it was in. Do you remember what month?
Sorry, no. It was mentioned on another forum.
Had an EAA membership for 20+ years but gave it
up about 10 years ago. So if anyone could find
and capture the article, I'd sure appreciate it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
| From: | "N777TY" <microsmurfer(at)yahoo.com> |
Y'all lost me there :)
Anyways, back to square one. The radio works just fine... it's been installed
for a little over 2 years and never had issues communicating with anyone (even
distant facilities). I acquired the plane last summer and this click was never
there.. so I can only assume it was like this from day one.. but have no way
of confirming this.
For clarification -- this is a certified plane that's been flying for a long time..
not a homebuilt sitting in my garage.. This radio allows me perfectly normal
"5 by 5" communication with anyone on frequency.. there have never been
any issues with clarity nor strength of normal voice transmission.. It just doesn't
click... that's all.
--------
RV-7A
N777TY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331193#331193
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Stereo Audio Mixer Products |
Discussed several times over the years on Aeroelectric, audio mixers
have matured. In addition to mono audio mixer/audio panel devices and
stereo headphone adapters available for some time, Vx Aviation has
released a pair of stereo audio mixers in our unique form factor-- the
D-sub backshell.
Although we avoid posting too much commercial material to the list, I
hope Bob appreciates what we've done here, because it's relevant to what
we have debated over the years.
Thanks, Vern Little
Summary of Announcement:
VICTORIA, BC---February 16, 2011---Vx Aviation today announced the
introduction of the first stereo audio mixers designed specifically for
experimental aircraft applications. The AMX-4A and AMX-4B dramatically
simplify and lower the cost of audio system installation in both
existing
and new aircraft. Both units are virtually pin-compatible with the
industry-leading AMX-2A monophonic 10 channel miniature audio mixer,
introduced in 2008.
Both the AMX-4A and AMX-4B units provide five independent stereo input
channels. Three channels are fixed-level, designed to connect to audio
sources that have their own volume controls, such as EFIS systems and XM
radios. Two of the channels have screwdriver adjustable audio levels,
providing the flexibility required when connecting to fixed level
sources.
Monophonic sources are supported by connecting together the left and
right
inputs of any input channel.
The AMX-4A low output version works seamlessly with PS Engineering
intercoms, providing the critical 2 volt peak-to-peak voltage limiting
required that prevents damage to the PS Engineering products. The AMX-4B
high output version has no such limiting and provides up to 12 volts
peak-to-peak drive capability and a gain of 15 decibels, making it
compatible with intercoms that require input amplification or for
directly
driving headphones.
For further inquiries, please contact me. Thank-you.
Vern Little
Vx Aviation
www.vx-aviation.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.org> |
Bob
I just noticed your comments about loss of IAS on both sides of the
Beechjet. l attended 2 of your Seminars and I know we talked about both
having worked for Cessna. When I left Cessna as a Flight Test Engineer
in 1968, I went to work for the Army Aviation Systems Cmd in St Louis as
a Dept of Army Civilian Senior Aeronautical Engineer and was there for
28+ years. Most of my time there was spent with the Army's Fixed Wing
Electronic Intelligence Gathering Aircraft. In the later years I was the
Army Technical Manager for 7 different versions of the RC-12 (Super
Kingair 200), the last 4 versions comprised of 36 aircraft with 1200 SHP
engines and Gross Weights in the 16,000 to 16,500 lb range. In the early
'90s, we took the RC-12N configuration which had the largest antenna
array to Duluth, Mn in January for natural icing tests. The Army test
crew from EAFB had a specially instrumented U-21 to search for icing
conditions and would then call out the RC-12N. I rode with the Army test
crew on flights 2 and 3 as a FTE/ Observer. On flight 2, we were in a
low stratus layer around 3000 ft MSL, 140 KTS, about 45% cruise power.
At 50 minutes we has collected 5 1/2 inches of ice with all of the deice
going, at 90% cruise power for the same air speed and had just lost the
right pitot airspeed. About 3 minutes later we lost the left pitot
airspeed. About 2 minutes later, we climbed out of the low stratus layer
so the U-21 could get photos of the ice buildups. Fortunately the U-21
was able to get a picture of the right pitot which showed that ice had
grown forward on the unheated pitot mast and then curved downward to
block the pitot inlet, at no time actually touching the pitot tube
itself. Before the U-21 could move to the left side, the left mast had
lost enough ice that the left airspeed had come back and a few minutes
later the right airspeed was back. Beech attempted to get some heat in
the mast , but abbreviated tests the following winter showed that it was
insufficient. Bob, I don't know whether the Beechjet used the same
pitot units or a similar design, but that was our findings on the Model
200.
Alden Van Winkle
Slo Build RV-9A
dvanwinkle(at)royell.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AOA
At 08:03 PM 2/13/2011, you wrote:
My comment on icing and AOA systems ~~If you encounter any type of
icing turn the AOA OFF unless you have full de-icing vane & aircraft.
We haven't even done R&D on a heated vane because of liability. Even
Boeing can't give you hard numbers with icing on wings. Heated vane and
icing on wings is NOT a good deal!
Elbie Mendenhall, EM Aviation, LLC www.riteangle.com
Exactly. The fleet of bizjets at HBC were all
qualified for flight into known ice. Everything
was heated or hammered.
I'll have to call some of my jet-jockey friends
at HBC and inquire as to words in the POH concerning
usefulness and cautions about AOA displays
on the production fleet.
I worked a REALLY strange problem on the Beechjet
some years back were pilots experienced loss of
IAS on BOTH sides of the airplane. Displays always
recovered at lower, warmer altitudes.
This often occurred in relatively clear air.
There was a LOT of brainstorming by a LOT
of grey beards as to the physics behind this
rare but disturbing event.
My task involved cutting a pitot tube open,
peppering it with thermocouples and putting
it back together again so that we could study
not only temperatures at the surfaces to be
de-iced but internally. There was some question
of ice crystals bouncing through the labyrinth
of pressure channels only to melt and re-freeze
inside the pitot tube.
During the fire drill for sniffing out root cause,
somebody asked the question: "How does the existence
of a working AOA display help the pilot who is
temporarily deprived of IAS?" Good question.
The Beechjet had been fitted with AOA indication
since its birth as the Mitusbishi Diamondjet.
But nobody had ever researched and written the
approve procedure for using AOA as an aid to
maneuvering without IAS.
That amendment was quickly added to the POH.
I'm not sure we ever deduced how pitot pressure
was being obstructed. I'll have to ask how that
problem resolved too. But it was interesting
that a perfectly useful display had existed
for so long but was never fully developed as a
component of plan-b, plan-c, etc. Shucks, with
DUAL air data systems, what are the odds?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cell phone rechargers |
| From: | bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
bob,
i put together a $15 kit to allow the light of a cell phone to turn on a
relay which i use to activate a 20 amp connector which someday will preheat
my engine. with a $15 kit there are no codes or protection from false starts
so to protect from power out and back on which activates the display on the
phone i was wondering about using a 6 volt battery instead of the120 volt
ac phone charger. the chargers are rated 4.5-9.5 volts. my question is
.......do cell phones have internal means to regulate the current flow to
charge their battery or will wiring it to a 6 volt battery for charging fry
it? it does take 2 calls to activate it so that lessens the possibility.
thanks for the time on this ''off topic'' issue
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | cell phone rechargers |
Bob Noffs=2C
My apologies for stepping into your question to Bob N=2C but I have exper
ienced this.
I had two different brand cell phones=2C yet they both could accept either
one's wall
charger plug. However=2C the wall charger's output voltages were NOT the s
ame voltage.
I can't recall exactly what the voltages were=2C but it was LESS than 1/2 v
olt.
I figured I'd take a gamble=2C and plug the higher voltage wall charger i
nto the
lower voltage cell phone. Poof! The phone went dead=2C D-E-D=2C dead. It
wasn't
just the battery=2C either=2C because I plugged it in the correct charger
=2C but that didn't
make a difference.
You could see some kind of proof that the phone was on=2C like the screen
was lit=2C but
blank=2C or something like that=2C but no amount of fiddling with it ever s
howed it was
ever going to work again. Less than 1/2 volt too much fried it!!
So=2C in answering your question=2C in my experience=2C no=2C a cell phon
e can not take
virtually any higher charge than the wall charger rating.
Mike Welch
Date: Wed=2C 16 Feb 2011 06:26:51 -0600
Subject: AeroElectric-List: cell phone rechargers
From: icubob(at)gmail.com
bob=2C
i put together a $15 kit to allow the light of a cell phone to turn on a
relay which i use to activate a 20 amp connector which someday will preheat
my engine. with a $15 kit there are no codes or protection from false star
ts so to protect from power out and back on which activates the display on
the phone i was wondering about using a 6 volt battery instead of the120 vo
lt ac phone charger. the chargers are rated 4.5-9.5 volts. my question is .
......do cell phones have internal means to regulate the current flow to ch
arge their battery or will wiring it to a 6 volt battery for charging fry i
t? it does take 2 calls to activate it so that lessens the possibility. th
anks for the time on this ''off topic'' issue
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Bob,
I did a search of past EAA articles and found the following pertaining to AOA:
Better Way to Fly - May 1998
Carrier Pilots' Secret - July 1999
Test Pilot: Angle of Attack - April 2001
Test Pilot: Angle of attack and lift/drag - May 2001
Test Pilot: Angle of Attack - November 2003
Shop Talk: Angle of Attack Indicator - December 2008
I could not find anything in 2005 about AOA. The December 2008 article by Dave
Barker might be the one that you are looking for. It describes how to build
the AOA sensor using a hall effect transducer and LED bar graph display.
Here is a link to the December 2008 EAA article: http://www.oshkosh365.org/saarchive/eaa_articles/2008_12_21.pdf
Below are links to the author's website. Dave Barker's pdf gives more detailed
construction details than the EAA magazine article.
http://www.barkeraircraft.com/files/AOA_rDisplay.pdf
http://www.barkeraircraft.com/AOA_kit.html
Although Dave Barker no longer sells AOA kits, he still has some circuit boards
available. There is a link to his email address on his website.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331206#331206
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HF hyd Crimper on sale |
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
The hydraulic HF crimper 66150 of recent discussion is on sale for $45 thru
the 19th with attached coupon, $59 without.
http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html?___SID=U
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cell phone rechargers |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
How about a DC powered cell-phone charger?
You can find a cheap automotive charger for just about any cell phone on
ebay. I've been ordering them from china directly, usually for a few
dollars including shipping. You should also be able to find a cheap
alligator clip lead with a female SAE 12v jack on one end. Could you clip
those alligator leads onto your airplane's battery, which is already
connected to a maintaining charger like the Schumaker 1526? Then you are
using AC power for the long term, but DC power for the short term. In this
case, "short term" would probably still be a really long time. When it's
time to fly, just unhook your alligator clips and charger, and leave them at
the hangar. If your phone system is located some distance from the
airplane, you could use this same strategy with a stand-alone 12v battery
and an AC or solar battery tender. This would be a great use for a
retired odyssey battery or something like that. If you keep a lawn tractor
or any other GSE in the hangar, you could use one of those onboard batteries
instead.
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Mike Welch wrote:
> Bob Noffs,
>
> My apologies for stepping into your question to Bob N, but I have
> experienced this.
> I had two different brand cell phones, yet they both could accept either
> one's wall
> charger plug. However, the wall charger's output voltages were NOT the
> same voltage.
> I can't recall exactly what the voltages were, but it was LESS than 1/2
> volt.
>
> I figured I'd take a gamble, and plug the higher voltage wall charger
> into the
> lower voltage cell phone. Poof! The phone went dead, D-E-D, dead. It
> wasn't
> just the battery, either, because I plugged it in the correct charger, but
> that didn't
> make a difference.
> You could see some kind of proof that the phone was on, like the screen
> was lit, but
> blank, or something like that, but no amount of fiddling with it ever
> showed it was
> ever going to work again. Less than 1/2 volt too much fried it!!
>
> So, in answering your question, in my experience, no, a cell phone can
> not take
> virtually any higher charge than the wall charger rating.
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 06:26:51 -0600
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: cell phone rechargers
> From: icubob(at)gmail.com
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
> bob,
> i put together a $15 kit to allow the light of a cell phone to turn on a
> relay which i use to activate a 20 amp connector which someday will preheat
> my engine. with a $15 kit there are no codes or protection from false starts
> so to protect from power out and back on which activates the display on the
> phone i was wondering about using a 6 volt battery instead of the120 volt
> ac phone charger. the chargers are rated 4.5-9.5 volts. my question is
> .......do cell phones have internal means to regulate the current flow to
> charge their battery or will wiring it to a 6 volt battery for charging fry
> it? it does take 2 calls to activate it so that lessens the possibility.
> thanks for the time on this ''off topic'' issue
> bob noffs
>
> *
>
> -List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cell phone rechargers |
| From: | "Mike Welch" <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
Jared,
Although I failed to suggest that, what you suggested is what I woul do.
If a guy got a small 12V battery, and one of those 12V cigarette lighter
recepticles, and used the 12V cell phone chargers, he'd be fine.
Plus, he could get one of the battery tenders from Harbor Freight that
keeps his 12 V battery always topped off. Battery tender, small 12V battery,
and the car charger would do it!!
Mike Welch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331211#331211
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Heated Pitot Tubes - Some first hand history |
At 02:09 AM 2/16/2011, you wrote:
Bob
I just noticed your comments about loss of IAS on both sides of the
Beechjet. l attended 2 of your Seminars and I know we talked about
both having worked for Cessna. When I left Cessna as a Flight Test
Engineer in 1968.
I'd forgotten that conversation. Were you working at the Pawnee
or Wallace plant? I was a tech writer at Cessna from about 1964 to
1969 . . . just a few months over 5 years.
I went to work for the Army Aviation Systems Cmd in St Louis as a
Dept of Army Civilian Senior Aeronautical Engineer and was there for
28+ years. Most of my time there was spent with the Army's Fixed Wing
Electronic Intelligence Gathering Aircraft. In the later years I was
the Army Technical Manager for 7 different versions of the RC-12
(Super Kingair 200), the last 4 versions comprised of 36 aircraft
with 1200 SHP engines and Gross Weights in the 16,000 to 16,500 lb
range. In the early '90s, we took the RC-12N configuration which had
the largest antenna array to Duluth, Mn in January for natural icing tests.
The Army test crew from EAFB had a specially instrumented U-21 to
search for icing conditions and would then call out the RC-12N. I
rode with the Army test crew on flights 2 and 3 as a FTE/ Observer.
On flight 2, we were in a low stratus layer around 3000 ft MSL, 140
KTS, about 45% cruise power. At 50 minutes we has collected 5 1/2
inches of ice with all of the deice going, at 90% cruise power for
the same air speed and had just lost the right pitot airspeed. About
3 minutes later we lost the left pitot airspeed. About 2 minutes
later, we climbed out of the low stratus layer so the U-21 could get
photos of the ice buildups. Fortunately the U-21 was able to get a
picture of the right pitot which showed that ice had grown forward on
the unheated pitot mast and then curved downward to block the pitot
inlet, at no time actually touching the pitot tube itself. Before the
U-21 could move to the left side, the left mast had lost enough ice
that the left airspeed had come back and a few minutes later the
right airspeed was back.
Wow! That would be some interesting pictures to have
in the library. Talk about tweaking the tail of the
tiger. I have 2 hours of dual in a King Air. I had
the electrical/avionics group at Lear for the GP-180
program and Collins came down in their company demonstrator
to show me some new features of their autopilot system.
The demonstrator pilot was also an instructor and
he invited me to take the left seat.
One of the most profound demonstrations of the
King Air (after we BACKED out of a parking
space) was the autopilot's ability to quickly
manage a loss of engine event. Climbing out we
were showing something like 2700 fpm and he
pulled one throttle to zero thrust. The airplane
barely yawed and the only thing that happened
was that noise level dropped and rate of climb
decreased to 1500 fpm. Now THAT'S what I call
single-engine performance.
If there was ever an airplane capable of staying
in the air under the most adverse of conditions,
it would have to be the twin turboprops. I had to
run home after that flight to get my log book. Didn't
want to miss getting the experience recorded. I also
have 2 hours of dual in a Baron and got a chance
to play with single-engine performance of that
airplane. The differences are profound.
Beech attempted to get some heat in the mast , but abbreviated tests
the following winter showed that it was insufficient. Bob, I don't
know whether the Beechjet used the same pitot units or a similar
design, but that was our findings on the Model 200.
Back in that era, pitot tubes had a LOT in common
including the ways they distributed heat. While working
the BE400 pitot heat issues in 2002 I discovered that the
heaters are long, tubular devices that snake
from each connector pin through various locations
and designed to create localized hot-spots. These
are not linear, uniform toaster heaters but specifically
tailored to distribute heat based on tests in icing tunnels.
In this case, a percentage of total heat was dumped
into the mast.
Further, the inside of a pitot tube can feature
a labyrinth of passages, chambers and 'melting
pots' tailored to stand off the various effects
of icing. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Pitot_Tube/
Another interesting feature of pitot tube
performance is illustrated by the plotted
flight test data (gathered with my po' boy's
laptop based instrumentation system). At 40KFt
-30C RAT and over 200Kts IAS, temperatures
at some locations on the tube were well over
100C. Now would like to believe there's no way
that icing could be a factor in the loss of
IAS . . . yeah . . . right.
After the studies were completed on the 400 I think
they re-distributed some heat and moved some drain
holes. Unfortunately, they could not increase total heat
without impacting the DC load studies for the
whole airplane. We had to live within the existing
power budget in spite of the fact that for 99.9%
of all operations in ice, there was power to burn.
Any heated pitot tube installation certified in
the last 30+ years is probably blessed with a heated
pitot tube that is "similar" but not identical
to other installations. Of course, ANY heated
pitot tube adapted to a single engine light
airplane can be expected to perform pretty much
as advertised. I don't think there are 14v
airplanes certified for flight in to known ice
that would also have finely tuned pitot tube
heater systems. Virtually all supper-whizzy
heated tubes will be off a pretty heavy duty
foul-weather capable airplane and will have
a 28v system.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | cell phone rechargers |
At 08:50 AM 2/16/2011, you wrote:
>Bob Noffs,
>
> My apologies for stepping into your question to Bob N, but I have
> experienced this.
>I had two different brand cell phones, yet they both could accept
>either one's wall
>charger plug.
>
> So, in answering your question, in my experience, no, a cell
> phone can not take
>virtually any higher charge than the wall charger rating.
It's unfortunate that there's so little standardization
for power supplies . . . especially for cell phones. We've
owned a variety of brands and models in the family and
cursed the need for separately tailored wall and mobile
chargers for each phone.
There appears to be a trend toward "USB Port" standardization
which would be 5.0 +/- 0.2 volts DC power. If your phone
is indeed a USB compatible device, then you'll want to
provide a tightly regulated power source. One easy way
to get the right power AND the right connector is to
acquire an IGo universal adapter.
http://tinyurl.com/4un3rdk
and combine it with the appropriate custom tip that
mates with your phone. The adapter has it's own
switchmode power supply that is set to the right
output voltage when the right tip is installed.
The adapter will need to be powered from 12v or
so. A small SLVA battery and BatteryTender would
be a good choice.
The nice thing about this arrangement is that
you can change phones at any time in the future
by simply swapping the power adapter tip.
I've read some descriptions of similar remote
control systems. One of the most interesting
used an audio detection system. The phone was
set to 'silent' except for a custom ring-tone
that activated by your controlling phone
number only.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 02/15/2011 11:32 PM, N777TY wrote:
> This radio allows me perfectly normal "5 by 5" communication with anyone on frequency..
there have never been any issues with clarity nor strength of normal
voice transmission.. It just doesn't click... that's all.
I've been trying to figure out what this "click" is that you indicate
happens on COM1. I don't remember ever getting a click on the radios
I've used. Even new solid state handhelds will trigger the runway
lighting, and they (or at least mine) doesn't make any noise at all when
pressing the transmit button, and I do not remember an audible click
being heard on a receiving radio when transmitting on the handheld.
I have no real data to back this statement up, but my gut tells me that
the "click" or lack of is simply a red herring and has nothing to do
with being able to activate the runway lights.
Just a passing thought, have you tried to activate the runway lights
with this radio at a different airport? Just wondering if there might
be something a bit off with the receiver at your local airport that
might be causing the issue.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
Attached is an AOA approach by by Jim Mantyla of Barrie Ont for the AirSoob
list.
I borrowed the idea for the AOA "pitot tube" with the angled holes. But,
instead of an analog pressure gauge calibrated for "Reserve Lift" - I put a
pressure sensor next to the probe.
I then processed and compared the dynamic pressure component provided by
each tube of the probe, I used a microprocessor to do this and provide a
display of both the calculated AOA value and a visual (graphical) indication
of the angle of attack with alarms that could be set.
I tested it on the bench with air flow and by varying the angle of attack
between wind flow and probe, it would indeed respond as expected. I had
initially intended to offer the unit for sale, but later decided that it
would probably not be economically viable as other units were avaliable and
the market for AOA was uncertain. I also question how many folks would want
to hang another "Pilot probe" under the wing.
It was a fun and educational project and I still have it for some future
time when things are slower and I find the time to hang it under the wing
and see how it works in the real world.
Too little time and too many projects {:>)
Ed
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com
--------------------------------------------------
From: "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 9:44 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AOA indicator
>
>
> Bob,
> I did a search of past EAA articles and found the following pertaining to
> AOA:
> Better Way to Fly - May 1998
> Carrier Pilots' Secret - July 1999
> Test Pilot: Angle of Attack - April 2001
> Test Pilot: Angle of attack and lift/drag - May 2001
> Test Pilot: Angle of Attack - November 2003
> Shop Talk: Angle of Attack Indicator - December 2008
> I could not find anything in 2005 about AOA. The December 2008 article by
> Dave Barker might be the one that you are looking for. It describes how
> to build the AOA sensor using a hall effect transducer and LED bar graph
> display.
> Here is a link to the December 2008 EAA article:
> http://www.oshkosh365.org/saarchive/eaa_articles/2008_12_21.pdf
> Below are links to the author's website. Dave Barker's pdf gives more
> detailed construction details than the EAA magazine article.
> http://www.barkeraircraft.com/files/AOA_rDisplay.pdf
> http://www.barkeraircraft.com/AOA_kit.html
> Although Dave Barker no longer sells AOA kits, he still has some circuit
> boards available. There is a link to his email address on his website.
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331206#331206
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | cell phone rechargers |
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: quarta-feira, 16 de Fevereiro de 2011 14:38
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: cell phone rechargers
At 08:50 AM 2/16/2011, you wrote:
It's unfortunate that there's so little standardization
for power supplies . . . especially for cell phones.
Recently I saw in some TV news that the great majority of world cell phone
manufacturers (including Motorola, NOKIA, Siemens, Samsung - I can't
remember if iPhone and Blackberry were in) had reached an agreement exactly
to standardize all cell phone chargers.
Let's hope they do it quickly
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
At 10:43 AM 2/16/2011, you wrote:
>Attached is an AOA approach by by Jim Mantyla of Barrie Ont for the
>AirSoob list.
>
>I borrowed the idea for the AOA "pitot tube" with the angled
>holes. But, instead of an analog pressure gauge calibrated for
>"Reserve Lift" - I put a pressure sensor next to the probe.
Great minds think alike . . . ;-)
I fiddled with an identical configuration about ten
years ago. Looked at a molded two-port AOA mast with
electronics built right into the base of the mast
and driving a small analog instrument. Mount mast,
hook up 14v, install indicator and calibrate.
>Market for AOA was uncertain. I also question how many folks would
>want to hang another "Pilot probe" under the wing.
>
>It was a fun and educational project and I still have it for some
>future time when things are slower and I find the time to hang it
>under the wing and see how it works in the real world.
>
>Too little time and too many projects {:>)
You got that right. Never got a chance to fly the
poc item but I did "fly it" on the roof of my
car. But aside from packaging, I had nothing
particularly unique from other products on the
market . . . and the "lift reserve" approach with
mast, two tubes and a Magnehelic gage was pretty
simple . . . tough competition.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
At 09:44 AM 2/16/2011, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>I did a search of past EAA articles and found the following pertaining to AOA:
thanks to all who responded to my query about S.A.
articles. I now have several. It's interesting/useful to see
what kinds of things have been published for the OBAM aviation
community. I've added all your contributions to my library.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | follow up shielded wire/hub question |
| From: | cardinalnsb(at)aol.com |
My first question needed to be more specific. My audio panel installation
manual shows that the shielded wires are "open" (shield not grounded) at
the end where the wires connect to the radio, and the shields are all gro
unded together at the audio panel.
If I use a "hub" system, where all avionics go in and then out of the hub,
do I keep each shield on a separate pin going in and out of the hub, or
do I ground all the shields together going into the hub and then start a
set of new shielded wires comng out of he hub (open coming out of the hub
) and tie all the shields to ground at the audio panel?
Thanks for the help, Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 11:56 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/15/11
*
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----------------------------------------------------------
AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Tue 02/15/11: 21
----------------------------------------------------------
oday's Message Index:
---------------------
1. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls,
III)
2. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Noel Loveys)
3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls,
III)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: 2nd radio (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:35 AM - Low Ohms Adapters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls,
III)
7. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Etienne Phillips)
8. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Bob McCallum)
9. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls,
III)
10. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls,
III)
11. 12:02 PM - Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs" (CardinalNSB(at)aol.c
om)
12. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Noel Loveys)
13. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Noel Loveys)
14. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: No click when pushing PTT (Noel Loveys)
15. 02:19 PM - Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protecti
on
markcs)
16. 02:55 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 02/14/11
EMAproducts(at)aol.com)
17. 04:31 PM - Re: Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs" (Robert L.
uckolls, III)
18. 04:33 PM - Re: AOA indicator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 08:36 PM - Re: No click when pushing PTT (N777TY)
20. 10:58 PM - New Stereo Audio Mixer Products (Vern Little)
21. 11:14 PM - Re: AOA (Dean Van Winkle)
_______________________________ Message 1 ______________________________
_______
rom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
t 08:58 PM 2/14/2011, you wrote:
Yes, the radio works fine otherwise (as in, it transmits
fine). COM1 produces the click (hence I can turn on the runway
lights). COM2 doesn't do that. It's not audible, and consequently
lights don't come on..
I can hear the click on COM1 (and as a result, lights can be turned
on, for example)..
When you say 'transmits fine' do I presume that
you can communicate with some distant facility?
If on the ground, can you talk to say a distant
aircraft and the pilot reports strong signal on
either radio?
Suggest you get a rough reading on power output.
You can do this with the most rudimentary of
SWR meters if you don't have access to a real
wattmeter. Use the meter to check the #1 system
and set the device for a full scale, forward
reading on #1 then move it to #2 without changing
the calibration.
Talking to another airplane in the hangar or
to a local hand held might appear to be just
fine when in fact, transmitted power output is
a tiny fraction of what it should be.
Bob . . .
_______________________________ Message 2 ______________________________
_______
rom: "Noel Loveys"
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
ransmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
ransmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
go was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
nplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
ights up the transmitter is active. Of course you can also see if you are
utting out any power by inserting an SWR meter in the antenna feed line.
n this case where you are only looking for the presence of power the
heapest of SWR meters will suffice.
As Bob said, gone are the days when there were mechanical relays happily
hattering open and closed with every transmission.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
rom: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N777TY
ent: February 14, 2011 9:33 PM
ubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
es, I'm expecting a click.. Considering that the other one which is same
echnology (ie, not a case of old vs. new) I'd think the expectation is
easonable :) Don't remember last time I ran into this situation in any
lane ... so what I'm experiencing on COM2 is not typical.. Looking for
deas what to look at..
--------
V-7A
777TY
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331092#331092
_______________________________ Message 3 ______________________________
_______
rom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
>I would expect the light control radio to trigger on just the
carrier, but for troubleshooting purposes you might try synthesizing
a click verbally while holding the xmit button for each trigger, &
see if the light control radio would respond to that, assuming that
it really needs to see audio on the carrier.
I'd also ask the control radio's mfgr about whether it just listens
for carrier or not.
If the lighting control system needs audio, it would
be a published feature. Some of the early lighting
control systems were jury-rigged onto the facility's
unicom radio. It was a circuit that needed to see
a sweeping frequency tone that pilots were expected
to generate by whistling.
I haven't seen one of those in service in 30 years.
They're all carrier operated now and generally have
their own dedicated receiver.
I would certainly resolve the power output question
first.
Bob . . .
_______________________________ Message 4 ______________________________
_______
rom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 2nd radio
t 12:24 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
Hi Jim
If it is possible to share an aerial, do you want to? It would be a
single point of failure for both radios... Every time I've has an
issue with my radio, it's been an antenna problem (about 4 times in
12 years). Having an independent radio is more useful to me as a
backup than a convenience, and so would require an independent
aerial. But that's me!
Excellent point. Antenna duplexers for transceivers
are not cheap. Two antennas are certainly the least
expensive and most reliable configuration. You don't
need an audio panel but probably an audio isolation
amplifier as described in the 'Connection's audio
chapter.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z16M.pdf
Bob . . .
_______________________________ Message 5 ______________________________
_______
rom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
ubject: AeroElectric-List: Low Ohms Adapters
was able to finish the batch before I had
o leave M.L. on important matters last Saturday.
ad a Valentine's day appointment with my grandkids
nd later my wife!
I've been in Lindsborg the last few days and
ill be back in the shop this afternoon. All
ow ohms adapters on order will go out first
lass mail this afternoon.
I've not finished the official instruction sheet
ut there's probably enough info in these photos
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9008/
to noodle out how the critter is used. I'll announce
ublication of the official instruction sheet
s soon as it's posted.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
_______________________________ Message 6 ______________________________
_______
rom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
transmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
transmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
ago was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
unplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
lights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah, that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51, neon bulbs around.
Emacs!
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage, high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________
________
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
rom: Etienne Phillips
I'll have a stab at it - when the switch is open, the chassis sits at line
oltage?
On 15 February 2011 16:49, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
uckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
an anyone spot a risk-issue in
> this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________
________
rom: Bob McCallum
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
1 The chassis is directly connected to the line.
2 the switch is in what is hopefully the ground side of the line.
3 It's probably old enough that the line plug is not polarized and the cha
sis may be attached to the "hot" side of the line.
More than one person has been electrocuted with such a layout.
Bob McC
rom: nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011=2C you wrote:
>
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
ransmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
ransmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
go was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
nplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
ights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah=2C that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51=2C neon bulbs around.
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage=2C high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
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________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________
________
rom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
t 09:16 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
#1 The chassis is directly connected to the line.
#2 the switch is in what is hopefully the ground side of the line.
#3 It's probably old enough that the line plug is not polarized and
the chassis may be attached to the "hot" side of the line.
More than one person has been electrocuted with such a layout.
Yup . . . you're tied for first place.
Bob . . .
_______________________________ Message 10 _____________________________
_______
rom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
t 09:04 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
I'll have a stab at it - when the switch is open, the chassis sits
at line voltage?
Right on! I'd built a number of transformer-less
circuits where injudicious wiring and positioning
of switches could put a chassis at above ground
potentials.
Since all ham gear was expected to be well
grounded for reasons of antenna performance,
it made sense to use the SAME ground as the
power return for the device. Make the line-cord
a one-wire lead that was switched. If the
gizmo didn't power up, reverse the plug. But
in no case was the properly grounded system at
risk for presenting a shock hazard.
So called AC/DC radios popular at the time
were always housed in a wood or plastic case.
Quite often, the line-connected 'ground' within
the appliance was floating from the chassis.
When launching a line-powered, transformer-less
DIY project, it was good to understand such
things.
Good eye!
Bob . . .
_______________________________ Message 11 _____________________________
_______
rom: CardinalNSB(at)aol.com
ubject: AeroElectric-List: Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs"
hat is the appropriate way to handle the shield part of "shielded" wire
hen wiring using a commercial "hub" or a diy "hub"? For
ntercom/aviionics use.
Thanks, Skip
_______________________________ Message 12 _____________________________
_______
rom: "Noel Loveys"
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
I'll take a stab at it.
he crystal and the heater for the tube are both powered by 115VAC.
onsidering the potential instability in both the voltage coming from the
all and possible changes in the frequency of the AC current it may be a bi
t
dgy.
oel
ow give us the real reason. Please!
oel
rom: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L.
uckolls, III
ent: February 15, 2011 11:20 AM
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
t 08:06 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
ransmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
ransmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
go was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
nplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
ights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah, that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51, neon bulbs around.
Emacs!
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage, high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
_______________________________ Message 13 _____________________________
_______
rom: "Noel Loveys"
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
Certainly a short across the 1 muff cap could cause that.
oel
rom: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Etienne
hillips
ent: February 15, 2011 11:35 AM
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
'll have a stab at it - when the switch is open, the chassis sits at line
oltage?
On 15 February 2011 16:49, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
an anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
_______________________________ Message 14 _____________________________
_______
rom: "Noel Loveys"
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
Many years ago I had a radio/Amplifier which the chassis could be hot if
it
as plugged in that way you would get a terrible AC hum from the speakers..
.
always put it down to the shielding on the tubes being hot. Yes I did ge
t
everal good roots from that thing until I realized that turning the plug
round removed the AC hum.
oel
rom: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
cCallum
ent: February 15, 2011 11:46 AM
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
1 The chassis is directly connected to the line.
2 the switch is in what is hopefully the ground side of the line.
3 It's probably old enough that the line plug is not polarized and the
hassis may be attached to the "hot" side of the line.
More than one person has been electrocuted with such a layout.
Bob McC
_____
From: nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
ubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
At 08:06 AM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
I would expect the first thing to do is to verify your radio is not
ransmitting... If you have another radio close by you can test the
ransmitter is operating. An old trick we used to do with taxicabs years
go was to have someone hold a fluorescent tube (tube only completely
nplugged) close to the transmitting antenna and key the mic. If the tube
ights up the transmitter is active.
Yeah, that was the primary reason for keeping the
little NE-2 or NE-51, neon bulbs around.
Emacs!
They were handy for 'sniffing' strong RF either
within a transmitter or out on the antenna. Since
then transmitters have morphed to low-voltage, high-
current architectures. The lamps won't sniff within the
circuitry but will still light up when held in close
proximity to the tip of a 1/4-wave antenna.
Haven't tried it but I suspect it will still be
limited to getting excited at 5 watts or more.
One is looking for an RF field on the order of
75 volts or more to capacitively excite these
lamps into visible activity.
The very first transmitter I built
http://tinyurl.com/4hwa2da
had an NE-2 permanently attached to the hot side
of the tank coil and could be used to tune the
transmitter. Can anyone spot a risk-issue in
this as-published diagram?
Bob . . .
_______________________________ Message 15 _____________________________
_______
ubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage
rotection
rom: "markcs"
ob,
Many thanks for your reply. Your time is always much appreciated.
Regards
Mark
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331164#331164
_______________________________ Message 16 _____________________________
_______
rom: EMAproducts(at)aol.com
ubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 02/14/1
1
Bob,
xcellent comments on the list
I was a designated examiner & PPE for about 7 years on the CE 500/550
eries and along with the FAA used the AOA to see if the applicant had use
d
he "bug card" correctly in figuring his approach speeds. If I recall
orrectly was 1 Kt per mark on the AOA scale. Tell the appplicant it loo
ked
s
f he was in error on his approach speeds by a couple knots he would look
t you like you were crazy, then refigure and guess what, we were exactly
orrect, told the applicant to use equipment he had in his plane! Navy
ilots lived by AOA, they are among my best customers.
I had a pitot line freeze on a D-50 T-Bon in the late 60's seems a
echanic had bent it to make it easier to attach an engine mount, however
just
outside the cowling it had made a low spot. I lost all airspeed at about
1,000 in IMC, declared an emergency and descended into Prescott, AZ finall
y
etting airspeed back in final turn in holding pattern prior to approach
at
200 AM Been there done that.
n a message dated 2/15/2011 12:00:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
eroelectric-list(at)matronics.com writes:
________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________
________
rom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielded wire use with "wiring hubs"
At 01:56 PM 2/15/2011, you wrote:
What is the appropriate way to handle the shield part of "shielded"
wire when wiring using a commercial "hub" or a diy "hub"? For
intercom/aviionics use.
Thanks, Skip
Instructions for installation/fabrication should
speak to at least one pin in every connector reserved
for the purpose of connecting to shield grounds.
All shields in a bundle can be daisy-chained such
that the shields can be handled on a single wire
in one pin of the plug.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________
________
rom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AOA indicator
t 03:39 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
If you are an EAA member you can see ALL back issues of Sport
Aviation on http://www.oshkosh365.org
If that doesn't do it for you I do have the 2005 issues but I would
have to see what issue it was in. Do you remember what month?
Sorry, no. It was mentioned on another forum.
Had an EAA membership for 20+ years but gave it
up about 10 years ago. So if anyone could find
and capture the article, I'd sure appreciate it.
Bob . . .
_______________________________ Message 19 _____________________________
_______
ubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: No click when pushing PTT
rom: "N777TY"
'all lost me there :)
Anyways, back to square one. The radio works just fine... it's been insta
lled
or a little over 2 years and never had issues communicating with anyone (e
ven
istant facilities). I acquired the plane last summer and this click was
never
here.. so I can only assume it was like this from day one.. but have no wa
y
f confirming this.
For clarification -- this is a certified plane that's been flying for a lo
ng
ime..
ot a homebuilt sitting in my garage.. This radio allows me perfectly nor
mal
5 by 5" communication with anyone on frequency.. there have never been
ny issues with clarity nor strength of normal voice transmission.. It jus
t
oesn't
lick... that's all.
--------
V-7A
777TY
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331193#331193
_______________________________ Message 20 _____________________________
_______
rom: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
ubject: AeroElectric-List: New Stereo Audio Mixer Products
Discussed several times over the years on Aeroelectric, audio mixers
ave matured. In addition to mono audio mixer/audio panel devices and
tereo headphone adapters available for some time, Vx Aviation has
eleased a pair of stereo audio mixers in our unique form factor-- the
-sub backshell.
Although we avoid posting too much commercial material to the list, I
ope Bob appreciates what we've done here, because it's relevant to what
e have debated over the years.
Thanks, Vern Little
Summary of Announcement:
ICTORIA, BC---February 16, 2011---Vx Aviation today announced the
ntroduction of the first stereo audio mixers designed specifically for
xperimental aircraft applications. The AMX-4A and AMX-4B dramatically
implify and lower the cost of audio system installation in both
xisting
nd new aircraft. Both units are virtually pin-compatible with the
ndustry-leading AMX-2A monophonic 10 channel miniature audio mixer,
ntroduced in 2008.
Both the AMX-4A and AMX-4B units provide five independent stereo input
hannels. Three channels are fixed-level, designed to connect to audio
ources that have their own volume controls, such as EFIS systems and XM
radios. Two of the channels have screwdriver adjustable audio levels,
roviding the flexibility required when connecting to fixed level
ources.
onophonic sources are supported by connecting together the left and
ight
nputs of any input channel.
The AMX-4A low output version works seamlessly with PS Engineering
ntercoms, providing the critical 2 volt peak-to-peak voltage limiting
equired that prevents damage to the PS Engineering products. The AMX-4B
high output version has no such limiting and provides up to 12 volts
eak-to-peak drive capability and a gain of 15 decibels, making it
ompatible with intercoms that require input amplification or for
irectly
riving headphones.
for more information, including photographs and drawings, please see
ttached document>
For further inquiries, please contact me. Thank-you.
Vern Little
x Aviation
ww.vx-aviation.com
_______________________________ Message 21 _____________________________
_______
rom: "Dean Van Winkle"
ubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AOA
Bob
I just noticed your comments about loss of IAS on both sides of the
eechjet. l attended 2 of your Seminars and I know we talked about both
aving worked for Cessna. When I left Cessna as a Flight Test Engineer
n 1968, I went to work for the Army Aviation Systems Cmd in St Louis as
Dept of Army Civilian Senior Aeronautical Engineer and was there for
8+ years. Most of my time there was spent with the Army's Fixed Wing
lectronic Intelligence Gathering Aircraft. In the later years I was the
rmy Technical Manager for 7 different versions of the RC-12 (Super
ingair 200), the last 4 versions comprised of 36 aircraft with 1200 SHP
ngines and Gross Weights in the 16,000 to 16,500 lb range. In the early
90s, we took the RC-12N configuration which had the largest antenna
rray to Duluth, Mn in January for natural icing tests. The Army test
rew from EAFB had a specially instrumented U-21 to search for icing
onditions and would then call out the RC-12N. I rode with the Army test
rew on flights 2 and 3 as a FTE/ Observer. On flight 2, we were in a
ow stratus layer around 3000 ft MSL, 140 KTS, about 45% cruise power.
t 50 minutes we has collected 5 1/2 inches of ice with all of the deice
oing, at 90% cruise power for the same air speed and had just lost the
ight pitot airspeed. About 3 minutes later we lost the left pitot
irspeed. About 2 minutes later, we climbed out of the low stratus layer
o the U-21 could get photos of the ice buildups. Fortunately the U-21
as able to get a picture of the right pitot which showed that ice had
rown forward on the unheated pitot mast and then curved downward to
lock the pitot inlet, at no time actually touching the pitot tube
tself. Before the U-21 could move to the left side, the left mast had
ost enough ice that the left airspeed had come back and a few minutes
ater the right airspeed was back. Beech attempted to get some heat in
he mast , but abbreviated tests the following winter showed that it was
nsufficient. Bob, I don't know whether the Beechjet used the same
itot units or a similar design, but that was our findings on the Model
00.
Alden Van Winkle
lo Build RV-9A
vanwinkle(at)royell.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AOA
At 08:03 PM 2/13/2011, you wrote:
My comment on icing and AOA systems ~~If you encounter any type of
cing turn the AOA OFF unless you have full de-icing vane & aircraft.
e haven't even done R&D on a heated vane because of liability. Even
oeing can't give you hard numbers with icing on wings. Heated vane and
cing on wings is NOT a good deal!
Elbie Mendenhall, EM Aviation, LLC www.riteangle.com
Exactly. The fleet of bizjets at HBC were all
qualified for flight into known ice. Everything
was heated or hammered.
I'll have to call some of my jet-jockey friends
at HBC and inquire as to words in the POH concerning
usefulness and cautions about AOA displays
on the production fleet.
I worked a REALLY strange problem on the Beechjet
some years back were pilots experienced loss of
IAS on BOTH sides of the airplane. Displays always
recovered at lower, warmer altitudes.
This often occurred in relatively clear air.
There was a LOT of brainstorming by a LOT
of grey beards as to the physics behind this
rare but disturbing event.
My task involved cutting a pitot tube open,
peppering it with thermocouples and putting
it back together again so that we could study
not only temperatures at the surfaces to be
de-iced but internally. There was some question
of ice crystals bouncing through the labyrinth
of pressure channels only to melt and re-freeze
inside the pitot tube.
During the fire drill for sniffing out root cause,
somebody asked the question: "How does the existence
of a working AOA display help the pilot who is
temporarily deprived of IAS?" Good question.
The Beechjet had been fitted with AOA indication
since its birth as the Mitusbishi Diamondjet.
But nobody had ever researched and written the
approve procedure for using AOA as an aid to
maneuvering without IAS.
That amendment was quickly added to the POH.
I'm not sure we ever deduced how pitot pressure
was being obstructed. I'll have to ask how that
problem resolved too. But it was interesting
that a perfectly useful display had existed
for so long but was never fully developed as a
component of plan-b, plan-c, etc. Shucks, with
DUAL air data systems, what are the odds?
Bob . . .
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
Are they online somewhere? Or am I looking in the wrong place?
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 02/16/2011 10:32 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> At 09:44 AM 2/16/2011, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Bob,
>> I did a search of past EAA articles and found the following pertaining
>> to AOA:
>
> thanks to all who responded to my query about S.A.
> articles. I now have several. It's interesting/useful to see
> what kinds of things have been published for the OBAM aviation
> community. I've added all your contributions to my library.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cell phone rechargers |
| From: | bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
hi all,
with my $10 tracfone came a car recharger so i am all set. have a garden
tractor battery i bought for a trail cam and never used and at least 1/2 dz
.
battery tenders around . i put a contacter together today in a metal box
with 120 volt plug and receptacle so handling a 15 amp load is no problem.
i was still a little worried about something triggering the device [
although not so much now as a power outage wont be a factor] and it would
run something for a week or two. this morning it came to me to plug a timer
in the power supply cord and interrupt the power to the circuit board every
8 hrs or so. board will shut off if on and will resume operation if it gets
the light signals.
including the tracfone i have $40 in this and it works like a million
bucks!
thanks for the input. bob noffs
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote
:
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III
> *Sent:* quarta-feira, 16 de Fevereiro de 2011 14:38
>
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: cell phone rechargers
>
>
> At 08:50 AM 2/16/2011, you wrote:
>
> It's unfortunate that there's so little standardization
> for power supplies . . . especially for cell phones.
>
>
> Recently I saw in some TV news that the great majority of world cell phon
e
> manufacturers (including Motorola, NOKIA, Siemens, Samsung ' I can=92t
> remember if iPhone and Blackberry were in) had reached an agreement exact
ly
> to standardize all cell phone chargers.
>
>
> Let=92s hope they do it quickly
>
>
> Carlos
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
At 05:23 PM 2/16/2011, you wrote:
>
>Are they online somewhere? Or am I looking in the wrong place?
I've posted them here.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Angle_of_Attack/
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No click when pushing PTT |
| From: | "royalina" <25royalina(at)gmail.com> |
I think the use of electro-mechanical
relays common to transceivers for 50 years have
been replaced with all solid state switching.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331315#331315
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
| From: | "royalina" <25royalina(at)gmail.com> |
They display angle of attack on the left side of the screen derived from, I think,
AHARS data, not from unheated pin holes in the wing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331314#331314
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery disconnect switch |
| From: | "royalina" <25royalina(at)gmail.com> |
Remember that contactor service life predictions
are based upon switching certain kinds of loads
usually in a laboratory environment.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331316#331316
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cell phone rechargers |
Bob Noffs,
I would be very interested in duplicating your set-up. You said the
LIGHT from the phone activated the contact?
John Morgensen
On 2/16/2011 5:38 PM, bob noffs wrote:
> hi all,
> with my $10 tracfone came a car recharger so i am all set. have a
> garden tractor battery i bought for a trail cam and never used and at
> least 1/2 dz. battery tenders around . i put a contacter together
> today in a metal box with 120 volt plug and receptacle so handling a
> 15 amp load is no problem.
> i was still a little worried about something triggering the device [
> although not so much now as a power outage wont be a factor] and it
> would run something for a week or two. this morning it came to me to
> plug a timer in the power supply cord and interrupt the power to the
> circuit board every 8 hrs or so. board will shut off if on and will
> resume operation if it gets the light signals.
> including the tracfone i have $40 in this and it works like a
> million bucks!
> thanks for the input. bob noffs
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Carlos Trigo > wrote:
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wiring diagram question for Pitot Heat On indicator |
light
| From: | "plevyakh" <hplevyak(at)mac.com> |
Guys,
I'm using Bob's pitot heat.pdf schematic as the base for a "Pitot Heat ON" amber
LED light on my annunicator / warning light panel.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DeIce/Pitot_Heat.pdf
In comparing this schematic to his article titled "Failure Detection and Annunciation
I notice a few differences in the two schematics.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure_Detection_and_Annunciation.pdf
Questions:
1. In pitot_heat.pdf the relay is positioned just before the Pitot heater load
and after the Reed switch sensor, vs in the second article the relay is positioned
BEFORE the Reed switch sensor. Does it matter?
2. The Reed switch current sensor wire layout is different in the two articles.
For example, the LED light wire is after the resistor in one, -vs- the LED wire
is after the Radio Shack 275-232 reed relay in the second article. Does
it matter?
3. Does anyone have a picture to share on how they boxed up and made flight worthy
the Reed Switch Current Sensor?
Thanks for any help here,
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak(at)mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331328#331328
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pitot_heat_202.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/failure_detection_and_annunciation_134.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 09:43 AM 2/17/2011, you wrote:
>
>Hi Bob,
>Let me start with the warning that I am dumber than a box of rocks
>when it comes to electron herding.
>I just received the circuit bd. 9005-301-10. while placing the parts
>I find no holes for the IN4742A Optional diode. I assume that this
>is needed for the battery management function.
That part was deleted as not necessary . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram question for Pitot Heat On indicator |
light
At 09:07 AM 2/17/2011, you wrote:
Guys,
I'm using Bob's pitot heat.pdf schematic as the base for a "Pitot
Heat ON" amber LED light on my annunicator / warning light panel.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DeIce/Pitot_Heat.pdf
In comparing this schematic to his article titled "Failure Detection
and Annunciation I notice a few differences in the two schematics.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure_Detection_and_Annunciation.pdf
Questions:
1. In pitot_heat.pdf the relay is positioned just before the Pitot
heater load and after the Reed switch sensor, vs in the second
article the relay is positioned BEFORE the Reed switch sensor. Does
it matter?
No
2. The Reed switch current sensor wire layout is different in the two
articles. For example, the LED light wire is after the resistor in
one, -vs- the LED wire is after the Radio Shack 275-232 reed relay in
the second article. Does it matter?
Depends on what you want to display.
Light ON = "Pitot heat powered up and
drawing current" (Page 3)
Light ON = "Pitot heat powered but NOT
drawing current". (Page 4)
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: follow up shielded wire/hub question |
At 01:50 PM 2/16/2011, you wrote:
>My first question needed to be more specific. My audio panel
>installation manual shows that the shielded wires are "open" (shield
>not grounded) at the end where the wires connect to the radio, and
>the shields are all grounded together at the audio panel.
>
>If I use a "hub" system, where all avionics go in and then out of
>the hub, do I keep each shield on a separate pin going in and out of
>the hub, or do I ground all the shields together going into the hub
>and then start a set of new shielded wires comng out of he hub (open
>coming out of the hub) and tie all the shields to ground at the audio panel?
Exactly where shields go to ground in small
airplanes is pretty much irrelevant. IF the
shield is connected at both ends and is obviously
a return path for signal or power, then carry
it through the hub on it's own pathway.
If the shield is not a signal/power pathway,
connect to common ground in hub (which still
needs to be carried to shield ground at the
audio panel)
FYI . . . when replying to a message lumped
with others in the 'digest' configuration, please
trim away all non-relevant text from the message.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram question for Pitot Heat On indicator |
light
| From: | "plevyakh" <hplevyak(at)mac.com> |
Thanks Bob...that helps.
Can you comment on use of the 18AWG fuselink in the Pitot Heat.pdf schematic in
place of a 15amp fuse?
Why wouldn't I just use a 15amp fuse at the bus to protect my wire?
Thanks,
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak(at)mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331341#331341
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram question for Pitot Heat On indicator |
light
| From: | "plevyakh" <hplevyak(at)mac.com> |
Thanks Bob...that helps.
Can you comment on use of the 18AWG fuselink in the Pitot Heat.pdf schematic in
place of a 15amp fuse?
Why wouldn't I just use a 15amp fuse at the bus to protect my wire?
Thanks,
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak(at)mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331342#331342
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram question for Pitot Heat On |
indicator light
At 10:59 AM 2/17/2011, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob...that helps.
>
>Can you comment on use of the 18AWG fuselink in the Pitot Heat.pdf
>schematic in place of a 15amp fuse?
>
>Why wouldn't I just use a 15amp fuse at the bus to protect my wire?
The cold resistance of a heated pitot tube is about 1/2 that of the
warmed up condition. Here's some data I gathered on a 28v tube.
Cut the resistance values by about 1/2 for a 14v tube.
[]
Further, from the time power is first applied until the
tube reaches operating temperature can be 20-60 seconds
depending on environmental conditions. A 100w tube will
nominally draw 7A at 14v, a 150w tube will be 11A.
Inrush during warm up can by 2x those values. The duration
of that inrush is protracted compared to a motor or
incandescent lamp. Hence the suggestion for a 'robust'
circuit protection. You can put in larger fuses too.
Suggest 30A for fuse. A 15A circuit breaker would probably
stay in . . . but be prepared to upsize if you get
nuisance trips.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Falstad <bobair(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher |
Bob N.,
I'm putting a "starter engaged" warning light in my new IFR panel. I simply hooked
the incandescent bulb from my B&C alternator "low voltage" warning light
between a fused wire that runs from the hot side of the starter contactor and
ground. (I now have the standby B&C alternator and will use its controller's
"standby alternator on" light in lieu of the low voltage light on the primary
alternator controller.)
But then I ran across a handwritten sketch that I believe you drew up for this
circuit. It has a 470 Ohm - 1 Watt resistor in the wire between the hot side
of the starter contactor and the lamp. It also shows a 1N4001 protection diode
in parallel with the lamp and ground. It isn't clear from your sketch (and
my electrical symbols knowledge is limited) whether the lamp is incandescent or
an LED. If incandescent, is the protection diode required? Recommended? If
incandescent, is the resistor required? Recommended? If the lamp is an LED,
same questions.
I can modify the circuit pretty easily right now but I'm towards the end of running
all my wires in the plane and will be finishing all the harnesses soon.
Thanks, as always, and
Best regards,
Bob Falstad
GlaStar N248BF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher |
At 10:34 PM 2/17/2011, you wrote:
>
>Bob N.,
>
>I'm putting a "starter engaged" warning light in my new IFR
>panel. I simply hooked the incandescent bulb from my B&C
>alternator "low voltage" warning light between a fused wire that
>runs from the hot side of the starter contactor and ground. (I now
>have the standby B&C alternator and will use its controller's
>"standby alternator on" light in lieu of the low voltage light on
>the primary alternator controller.)
>
>But then I ran across a handwritten sketch that I believe you drew
>up for this circuit. It has a 470 Ohm - 1 Watt resistor in the wire
>between the hot side of the starter contactor and the lamp. It also
>shows a 1N4001 protection diode in parallel with the lamp and
>ground. It isn't clear from your sketch (and my electrical symbols
>knowledge is limited) whether the lamp is incandescent or an LED.
This is an incandescent lamp
Emacs!
This is an Light Emitting Diode
Emacs!
The resistor used with the LED warning circuit as
sketched serves a dual purpose. It protects the wire
that runs from starter to lamp by limiting the maximum
current that could flow in a faulted wire. At the same
time, it SETS the current intended to illuminate the
LED.
For an incandescent warning light, the resistor is
replaced with a fuse and the incandescent lamp is
substituted for the LED. No reverse current diode
is needed.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Power for Checking Systems Out on the Ground |
At 10:03 AM 2/18/2011, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Is there a drawing showing the circuit you describe below? And
>values/part no. for the power diode and relay?
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Line_Powered_Alternator_Emulator.pdf
Power supply http://tinyurl.com/4lqfl8p
Diode http://tinyurl.com/4cft9g3
http://tinyurl.com/488ztot
http://www.bandc.biz/essentialbusdiode-1.aspx
Relay http://www.bandc.biz/spdtsealedrelay12v40a.aspx
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Bob N., Is the drawing for this circuit in the Aeroelectric archives? I
think I'd like to add it to my very bare bones system.
Thanks,
Rick
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:34 PM 2/17/2011, you wrote:
>
>
> Bob N.,
>
> I'm putting a "starter engaged" warning light in my new IFR panel. I
> simply hooked the incandescent bulb from my B&C alternator "low voltage"
> warning light between a fused wire that runs from the hot side of the
> starter contactor and ground. (I now have the standby B&C alternator and
> will use its controller's "standby alternator on" light in lieu of the low
> voltage light on the primary alternator controller.)
>
> But then I ran across a handwritten sketch that I believe you drew up for
> this circuit. It has a 470 Ohm - 1 Watt resistor in the wire between the
> hot side of the starter contactor and the lamp. It also shows a 1N4001
> protection diode in parallel with the lamp and ground. It isn't clear from
> your sketch (and my electrical symbols knowledge is limited) whether the
> lamp is incandescent or an LED.
>
>
> This is an incandescent lamp
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> This is an Light Emitting Diode
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> The resistor used with the LED warning circuit as
> sketched serves a dual purpose. It protects the wire
> that runs from starter to lamp by limiting the maximum
> current that could flow in a faulted wire. At the same
> time, it SETS the current intended to illuminate the
> LED.
>
> For an incandescent warning light, the resistor is
> replaced with a fuse and the incandescent lamp is
> substituted for the LED. No reverse current diode
> is needed.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit Refresher |
At 05:43 PM 2/18/2011, you wrote:
>Bob N., Is the drawing for this circuit in the Aeroelectric
>archives? I think I'd like to add it to my very bare bones system.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Starter_Engaged_Warning_Lt.pdf
>Bob N.,
>
>I'm putting a "starter engaged" warning light in my new IFR
>panel. I simply hooked the incandescent bulb from my B&C
>alternator "low voltage" warning light between a fused wire that
>runs from the hot side of the starter contactor and ground. (I now
>have the standby B&C alternator and will use its controller's
>"standby alternator on" light in lieu of the low voltage light on
>the primary alternator controller.)
>
>But then I ran across a handwritten sketch that I believe you drew
>up for this circuit. It has a 470 Ohm - 1 Watt resistor in the wire
>between the hot side of the starter contactor and the lamp. It also
>shows a 1N4001 protection diode in parallel with the lamp and
>ground. It isn't clear from your sketch (and my electrical symbols
>knowledge is limited) whether the lamp is incandescent or an LED.
This is an incandescent lamp
Emacs!
This is an Light Emitting Diode
Emacs!
The resistor used with the LED warning circuit as
sketched serves a dual purpose. It protects the wire
that runs from starter to lamp by limiting the maximum
current that could flow in a faulted wire. At the same
time, it SETS the current intended to illuminate the
LED.
For an incandescent warning light, the resistor is
replaced with a fuse and the incandescent lamp is
substituted for the LED. No reverse current diode
is needed.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
Bob: is it OK to wire an LED directly (through a resistor in series) to a
14V system? Or should a voltage reduction circuit/device be used. I always
though most LEDs were supposed to work on 5V. And 14V would be too much.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: February 18, 2011 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Starter Engaged" Warning Light Circuit
Refresher
At 10:34 PM 2/17/2011, you wrote:
Bob N.,
I'm putting a "starter engaged" warning light in my new IFR panel. I simply
hooked the incandescent bulb from my B&C alternator "low voltage" warning
light between a fused wire that runs from the hot side of the starter
contactor and ground. (I now have the standby B&C alternator and will use
its controller's "standby alternator on" light in lieu of the low voltage
light on the primary alternator controller.)
But then I ran across a handwritten sketch that I believe you drew up for
this circuit. It has a 470 Ohm - 1 Watt resistor in the wire between the
hot side of the starter contactor and the lamp. It also shows a 1N4001
protection diode in parallel with the lamp and ground. It isn't clear from
your sketch (and my electrical symbols knowledge is limited) whether the
lamp is incandescent or an LED.
This is an incandescent lamp
Emacs!
This is an Light Emitting Diode
Emacs!
The resistor used with the LED warning circuit as
sketched serves a dual purpose. It protects the wire
that runs from starter to lamp by limiting the maximum
current that could flow in a faulted wire. At the same
time, it SETS the current intended to illuminate the
LED.
For an incandescent warning light, the resistor is
replaced with a fuse and the incandescent lamp is
substituted for the LED. No reverse current diode
is needed.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LED question |
At 06:20 PM 2/18/2011, you wrote:
>Bob: is it OK to wire an LED directly (through a resistor in series)
>to a 14V system? Or should a voltage reduction circuit/device be
>used. I always though most LEDs were supposed to work on 5V. And
>14V would be too much.
LED's are CURRENT driven devices. They do drop 2-3 volts
across the device while illuminated (depending on color)
but they can be BIASED up to run at ANY voltage greater
than 3 volts by selection of the series resistor . . . which
is the purpose of the 470 ohm resistor in the sketch. With
9-12v applied to the starter and 2v dropped across the
LED leaves 7 to 10 volts drop across the 470 ohm resistor.
This translates to an LED operating current on the order of
(7/470) 15 to (10/470) 21 milliampers.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for Cool (Digital) Ammeter |
Group,
Here's what I want:
I want to mimic the good old zero-center ammeter but in a digital format.
1. digital readout of current in the center with bar graphs to the left
and right indicating the magnitude of the charge or discharge.
2. could be LED or LCD
3. each segment of the bar graph would represent say, 5 amps
4. Instrument face - no more than 3 in. wide by 1.5 in. tall
5. scale +- 60 amps, external shunt, 12v power
6. self dimming
Artwork (the equal sign indicates lit segments):
---------- 0 ----------
---------- 10 ==-----
-----==== -20 ----------
I've googled a bit but haven't seen anything like this. Have you?
TIA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Andee <daleandee(at)yahoo.com> |
Group,
I'm new here and seeking some help for my Corvair powered airplane. Attache
d is a diagram that began as the Z-9 drawing to which I've made mostly dele
tions. The fuel pump circuits have been deleted as I'm using a gravity feed
system.-
You will also note the elimination of a fuse for the secondary ignition cir
cuit. William Wynn recommends that there be no fuses, breakers, ect in the
ignition wiring. I do show a 7A in the primary ignition circuit (that may n
eed to be increased but I don't have that spec as yet).
Could I also get some comments on the battery contactor? I know some say it
isn't needed and that a good master switch can handle all of the amps that
the system will need. The Dynamo is 20A and the main fuse is 30A.
Any suggested changes and the reasons for the changes are appreciated. Plea
se be aware that I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box when it comes to el
ectrical wiring so your patience and elementary type answers are much appre
ciated. -8~)
Thanks in advance for all your help.
Dale-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Start Alternator Woes |
At 05:42 AM 2/19/2011, you wrote:
>Thanks Bob.
>
>This morning, I got the ALT to come on line. I connected up two
>30Amp blade fuses in parallel on a fully charged battery and voila,
>14.5 volts on the BUS.
>
>Is it possible the drained battery was pulling more AMPs than the
>ANL40 and 20AMP fuse could handle?
Sure. But I'm mystified as to why the ANL40 got into
trouble. Here's the spec sheet on ANL current limiters:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/ANL_Specs.pdf
Note that these are VERY ROBUST protective devices
intended to carry rated currents + overloads for
protracted periods of time. I.e. these are not
intended to be fast acting fuses. They're intended
to clear HARD faults in power distribution systems.
My best guess is that your 'ANL40' may have been
a poorly crafted clone that behaved more like a
fuse than a current limiter. Get a 'real' ANL of
any current rating from 40 to 60 an you'll probably
fix the problem.
If you can't find a qualified ANL, consider an
automotive in-line fuse holder for the MAX series
of plastic fuses.
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/MAXI_Specs.pdf
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Fuses/Fuse_Holders/MaxiFuse_Holder.jpg
Install a MAX70 or MAX80 fuse in the holder.
I charged of in the direction of 'failed diodes'
assuming that your 'anl' fuses were performing
to specs. But your question is right on point.
A 60A amp alternator charging a dead battery will
go flat-out and quite often will trip a 60A
breaker. My assumption was out in the weeds.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/never_again.html
The 60A breaker on the B-lead of 60A alternators
in tens of thousands of GA aircraft are DESIGNED
to nuisance trip under precisely the conditions
you hypothesized.
Get the right b-lead protection installed and I
think you're good to go. By the the way, paralleled
fuses is a useful experiment but not a permanent
fix.
Bob . . .
>Subject: Re: Fwd: First Start Alternator Woes
>
>At 06:34 PM 2/18/2011, you wrote:
> >Dear Bob,
> >
> >I did a first start of my RV7 EI-EEO last weekend and the alternator
> >did not come on line.
> >
> >I have an L-60 and LR3 regulator from B&C. Wiring diagram attached.
> >
> >On working through B&Cs LR3 troubleshooting all voltages looked
> >good, then checked the Field connector. Connectors were pushed back.
> >Great we found the problem. No joy. Then went through all the checks
> >again. The ANL40 that I have installed was blown. We put a blade
> >fuse holder with a 20Amp fuse in its place. Fired her up, switched
> >on the Alt field (no electrics on expect for the EFIS) and the 20Amp
> >fuse blew almost immediately.
> >
> >What are the modes that could produce this behaviour? Would a 20AMP
> >fuse always blow? I see now that the ANL40 should have been a 60ANL,
> >but why would the ANL40, with such low loads. If the battery was
> >low, would that be the reason.
>
> The only thing that will blow an ANL
> b-lead fuse is shorted diodes in the
> alternator. A normally working alternator
> cannot open its own b-lead protection.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Looking for Cool (Digital) Ammeter |
_http://www.aircraftextras.com/AG6.htm_
(http://www.aircraftextras.com/AG6.htm) is similar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for Cool (Digital) Ammeter |
Thanks for the link.
Not really what I had in mind but I had forgotten about Aircraft Extras.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
CardinalNSB(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 08:20
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for Cool (Digital) Ammeter
http://www.aircraftextras.com/AG6.htm is similar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Voltage Regulator Problem |
| From: | "frank3" <frank3phyl(at)comcast.net> |
I have a 912ULS with the Ducati regulator wired into the Z16 diagram that I have
been flying for three years. Today on run-up I noted low voltage (
--------
Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331577#331577
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Ramsey UHF Counter for Sale |
This one-owner Ramsey CT-90 UHF counter with high
accuracy/stability time base option has become surplus
to my needs. It has been listed on Ebay at:
http://tinyurl.com/6dyy753
This will directly display the transmitter's center
frequency for both handhelds and panel mounted
radios. It's also a rough field strength test for
a transmitted signal. Might be a good tool for
an EAA chapter to have for loan to members.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AC ground prong question |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Here is website that gives the voltage and frequency of countries around the world: http://users.telenet.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm
Half of Japan has 50hz and half has 60hz. Although Japan's 50hz and 100 volt power
is different from the USA, it is similar enough to operate most U.S. appliances.
However, there may be some sensitive devices that will not work.
The person who suggested that Japan could have two phase power is completely
wrong. Two phase power is very rare and would require more than two wires. I
would NOT cut off the grounding prong from a cord plug. Doing so could create
a shock hazard in certain situations. Some sensitive electronic devices will
malfunction without being grounded.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331606#331606
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Problem |
| From: | "frank3" <frank3phyl(at)comcast.net> |
Let me try sending again--only part of note came through on first try.
I have a 912ULS with the Ducati regulator wired into the Z16 diagram that I have
been flying for three years. Today on run-up I noted low voltage (under 11
volts) in the Grand Rapid EIS & the Dynon EFIS displays, regardless of RPM. Normally
I get 13.1 volts indicated with load.
With Master off & engine not running the yellow dynamo wires feeding the regulator
show continuity with no resistance. I am thinking there should be some resistance--am
I correct or is the reading OK? At fast idle (2400 RPM) the yellow
wires indicate 18 volts AC and correspondingly increases with increasing RPM.
The regulator output B+ terminal reads 8.5 volts DC--I believe I should expect
14 v DC. The system voltmeter reads about 11 volts with minimal load. Battery
was 12.5 v. I traded out the regulator with one that I was told was good. Very
similar results (8.3 volts output). I assume both regulators are faulty???
Any suggestions to further trouble shoot?
If I replace the regulator I'm considering the Key West. Question about integrating
into the Z16 wiring scheme. I assume the + & - input terminals are connected
to the yellow wires from the dynamo. Not sure how to hook-up the + & - output
terminals. Can anyone help me with that?
Thanks much
--------
Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331608#331608
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protection |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Bob,
I intend to build an over-voltage circuit for my Rotax powered RV-12. I found
a couple of designs on your website:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/DIY_Crowbar_OVP_F.pdf
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9003/CbOV-14_Installation_A.pdf
I like the latter circuit due to its fewer parts count. Unfortunately, the MBS4991
Silicon Bilateral Switch is no longer available.
Question: Can I substitute a zener (8.7 or 9 volt) diode for the MBS4991?
I did find a replacement for the MBS4991 at Mouser: the NTE6403 although it is
relatively expensive at $8. I am not sure how to connect it because your schematic
only shows 2 of the 3 leads connected.
Question: Do the Gate and the A1 terminal of the bilateral switch connect to the
pot?
Thanks for your help.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331611#331611
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protection |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
> who could confirm whether or not they agree that the 505 seems suitable as a
generic PMA OV device
Mark,
I agree with your thoughts on this. But I have no experience with the B&C 505-1
to back up my opinion. You could build your own over-voltage protection using
one of Bob's schematics mentioned in my post above.
Bob sells over-voltage protection for $30 on his website:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
If you go to there and scroll down and click on CBOV-14, the link takes you here: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9003/CbOV-14_Installation_A.pdf
I believe the aircraft schematic at the bottom of the PDF will work for a permanent
magnet alternator. I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331613#331613
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AC ground prong question |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Dear Lincoln (and Joe)
Joe is right. I actually designed devices to operate worldwide, and I can tell
you Brazil is the worst. The voltage has been known to be from 90-250 from any
outlet type! Intermittent, too! Grounds? fahgedaboutit...but it is rapidly improving.
The world seems to be "harmonizing" on 230V 50 Hz.
But to answer some of your puzzle: The neutral conductor in US systems is the white
wire (the larger blade). Black is higher voltage, measured against white
or ground. The green wire and the U-ground is attached to the white at the main
transformer, but the green is also attached to any metal "likely to be energized
in a fault condition." So you see, the ground and white wire are both "neutral"
in a sense, but the green ground is for safety.
If you are plugging in a device that has "no metal likely to become energized in
a fault condition", and you stay out of the water, then you are good to go with
only two prongs. Since this condition is usually hard to know with 100% certainly,
three is always a better choice.
But be aware: Worldwide 230 VAC 50 Hz outlets do not have the neutral and ground
connected anywhere.
For additional credit: Q: Should the "face" on the US plug be installed right-side
up or upside-down? A: The socket should be installed so that upon the inadvertent
extraction of the plug (getting yanked out), The U-ground connection is
the last prong to be disconnected. This usually means that plugs near the floor
should have right-side-up faces, plugs way up high should have upside down
faces. Cool huh?
Also, be aware that everyone makes mistakes. In the Southwest, Mexican construction
plumbers work for peanuts. "C" in Mexico is "Caliente" (hot) and an "F" looks
like an "H" if you are illiterate.
I have seen branded, UL, CSA, ETL approved, where grievous errors were not caught.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331614#331614
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dabbling_with_electricity_357.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage |
Protection
At 10:54 AM 2/20/2011, you wrote:
>
>
> > who could confirm whether or not they agree that the 505 seems
> suitable as a generic PMA OV device
correct
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage |
Protection
At 10:20 AM 2/20/2011, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>I intend to build an over-voltage circuit for my Rotax powered
>RV-12. I found a couple of designs on your website:
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/DIY_Crowbar_OVP_F.pdf
>and
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9003/CbOV-14_Installation_A.pdf
>I like the latter circuit due to its fewer parts
>count. Unfortunately, the MBS4991 Silicon Bilateral Switch is no
>longer available.
Yes, the two-transistor emulation of the MBS4991 was
crafted after the former part went obsolete.
>Question: Can I substitute a zener (8.7 or 9 volt) diode for the MBS4991?
No. If you study both the specs for the 4991 and noodle out the
behavior of the PNP/NPN transistor pair, you'll deduce that
the device is both voltage sensing AND avalanche-trigger
that dumps the energy stored on the time delay capacitor
into the gate of the crowbar SCR.
>I did find a replacement for the MBS4991 at Mouser: the NTE6403
>although it is relatively expensive at $8. I am not sure how to
>connect it because your schematic only shows 2 of the 3 leads connected.
If it's a bilateral device, it doesn't matter which
two outside leads are connected where. The center
lead (gate) is cut off.
There is a new device (at least new to me!) offered
by Digikey. See:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=835-1126-1-ND
It's typically an 8v device so you might have to diddle
the voltage divider values a tad to get a trip point
well inside the pot travel. The temperature drift
numbers look good.
As you can see, the 2-transistor+zener
circuit is a synthesis of 1/2 of the bilateral
trigger diode. All the parts are readily available
and the circuit as shown has been constructed by many
OBAM aircraft builders.
Here's a handy test fixture for setting your finished
OVM.
http://tinyurl.com/4k455p5
The relay+lamp/resistor should draw about 1A when energized.
Set the bench supply for 16.3 volts. Adjust the
trigger calibration pot on the OV module so that
the relay "clicks" about once per second.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Problem |
At 09:34 AM 2/20/2011, you wrote:
>
>Let me try sending again--only part of note came through on first try.
>
> I have a 912ULS with the Ducati regulator wired into the Z16
> diagram that I have been flying for three years. Today on run-up I
> noted low voltage (under 11 volts) in the Grand Rapid EIS & the
> Dynon EFIS displays, regardless of RPM. Normally I get 13.1 volts
> indicated with load.
Alternator/regulator is NOT producing power.
>With Master off & engine not running the yellow dynamo wires feeding
>the regulator show continuity with no resistance.
This is a very low resistance . . . less than 1 ohm
that you cannot measure without special attention
to test equipment - like the low ohms adapter on
my website.
> I am thinking there should be some resistance--am I correct or is
> the reading OK?
If your plain vanilla volt-ohmeter shows continuity,
the windings are probably fine. Are they discolored,
i.e. insulation very dark and/or cracked?
>At fast idle (2400 RPM) the yellow wires indicate 18 volts AC and
>correspondingly increases with increasing RPM.
That's good . . .
>The regulator output B+ terminal reads 8.5 volts DC--I believe I
>should expect 14 v DC. The system voltmeter reads about 11 volts
>with minimal load. Battery was 12.5 v. I traded out the regulator
>with one that I was told was good. Very similar results (8.3 volts
>output). I assume both regulators are faulty??? Any suggestions to
>further trouble shoot?
Is your control relay closing? Try bypassing the
OV/control system and connect your R/R output
wire directly to the system (unplug fat wires
from relay and connect them together). Then
do your voltage checks.
>If I replace the regulator I'm considering the Key West. Question
>about integrating into the Z16 wiring scheme. I assume the + & -
>input terminals are connected to the yellow wires from the dynamo.
>Not sure how to hook-up the + & - output terminals. Can anyone help
>me with that?
Do you have the Key West installation instructions?
If it is this device:
Emacs!
The terminal markings are pretty definitive. AC input is from
your alternator winding, NEG(-) goes to ground, POS(+) would
go to the control relay.
But check your control relay closure first. It seems unlikely that
you would suffer TWO Rectifier/Regulator failures.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Bill,
Thanks for your thoughts on wiring the AML series switches. After discussions with Perehelion, I've worked out a scheme to run the switch lamps at 12v (using http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/ds4/AN7712SP_BEB_discon.pdf) for dimming, but when the switch is ON, the lamp gets the bus voltage of 13.5v making them brighter than the dimmer circuit.
I may have to adjust the max voltage of the dimmer circuit to get the bingo brightness
differential. Or this whole idea may end up in the trash and I simplify
to just hooking the dimmer directly to the lamps like you have done.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331625#331625
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Problem |
| From: | "frank3" <frank3phyl(at)comcast.net> |
Bob
Thanks for your input.
As you suggested I removed the relay "C" input and jumped it across to the "A"
lead. The reading from the regulator B+ lead was initially about 11 volts with
the engine running but steadily decreased to yesterday's reading of about 8.4
volts. Reading was not influenced by increase in RPM.
I reconnected to the relay "C" terminal and took a reading from the "C" terminal
to the starter relay to check the circuit through the relay & across the fuse
link and got a reading of 8.3 volts with the master on ALT. Battery still above
12 v.
Any other suggestions?
--------
Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331639#331639
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protection |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
I read about the Silicon Bilateral Switch on the internet today. Evidently it
is not necessary to connect the gate because the SBS will start conducting when
the voltage reaches a certain value without the gate connected.
I am still wondering if a zener diode could be used instead of the SBS. If not,
it would be interesting to know what the disadvantages of the zener diode
are, or if it would even work at all.
Thanks for any advice.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331658#331658
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage |
Protection
At 07:31 PM 2/20/2011, you wrote:
>
>I read about the Silicon Bilateral Switch on the internet
>today. Evidently it is not necessary to connect the gate because
>the SBS will start conducting when the voltage reaches a certain
>value without the gate connected.
> I am still wondering if a zener diode could be used instead of
> the SBS. If not, it would be interesting to know what the
> disadvantages of the zener diode are, or if it would even work at all.
It MIGHT work sort of if you used a sensitive gate
SCR but that offers a potential for other problems
like nuisance tripping due to noises on the bus.
The non-sensitive crowbar SCR needs a swift kick in
the gate to insure a good trigger at all temperatures.
The simple zener has a soft conduction 'knee' in it's
V/I curve so is a poor voltage reference at the
threshold of conduction. Further, the current that
can be delivered to the gate of the SCR due to
zener conduction is limited by the source impedance
of the calibration voltage divider.
The diac has a more predictable trigger voltage
which produces an avalanche conduction mode that
dumps the time delay capacitor into the gate
of the SCR. That pulse is hundreds of mA to
over 1A. This same characteristic is also desired
for the triggering of triacs in dimmers . . . the
#1 commercial use for diacs of any voltage.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/9003_B&C/OVM_14_Prototype.jpg
This was the first crowbar OVM we offered many moons
ago. This configuration was modified early in
the production experience to add the 10 ohm gate
to cathode resistor to negate nuisance tripping.
The diac in this version visible on the left was
a really cool part. An SD10 as I recall with very
good tolerances on a 10v trip calibration. This part
went obsolete and we went to the MBS4991. That part
went obsolete and I synthesized the diac functionality
with the pnp/npn pair. At this time, I think B&C has
both the diac and transistor versions in production
on the fleet of products. They made a life-time buy
on the MBX4991. I bought a couple hundred too so that
I can support my own production though it's probable
market life. It is similar to this configuration
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/9003_B&C/OVM-14_A.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/9003_B&C/OVM-14_B.jpg
except that we now offer a 15 turn calibration potentiometer
that can be accessed in the field.
This is why the DIY project features the transistor
pair. But it appears that the new kid on the block
from Digikey would allow one to fabricate the diac version.
Your choice.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Problem |
At 04:44 PM 2/20/2011, you wrote:
>
>Bob
>Thanks for your input.
>As you suggested I removed the relay "C" input and jumped it across
>to the "A" lead. The reading from the regulator B+ lead was
>initially about 11 volts with the engine running but steadily
>decreased to yesterday's reading of about 8.4 volts. Reading was
>not influenced by increase in RPM.
>
>I reconnected to the relay "C" terminal and took a reading from the
>"C" terminal to the starter relay to check the circuit through the
>relay & across the fuse link and got a reading of 8.3 volts with the
>master on ALT. Battery still above 12 v.
It's not clear that you understood my suggestion.
I intended that you bypass the control relay
entirely. If you're using Z-16 of more than 3
years ago, then the relay is probably in the DC
output wire from the rectifier-regulator. The
current version uses the control relay to switch
AC power out of the alternator.
Unplug both the heavy gage wires from the control
relay and connect them together thus eliminating
the relay as a means by which the alternator can
be disconnected from the system.
Then see how things perform. The point of this
experiment is to eliminate the relay and its
control wiring as potential cause for your
observed malfunction.
While the relay is bypassed and you're making
other voltage measurements, see what voltage you
read on the relay's skinny wires too with the
battery/alternator control switch full up. One
should be seeing battery voltage, the other
should be zero volts.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Problem |
| From: | "frank3" <frank3phyl(at)comcast.net> |
Bob
Thanks for clarifying.
With relay circumvented (fat wires disconnected from relay but joined together),
B+ = 11.6v steady; EIS steady 10.8v. No change to either reading with RPM increase.
Re the "little wires", neither had voltage with master on ALT.
Reconnected relay and retested, B+ = 1.9v at start and slowly increased to 4v after
10 min engine run. Same reading immediately after engine off. EIS showed
10.8v. No change to either reading with RPM increase.
Further suggestions/assessment?
--------
Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331739#331739
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Problem |
At 11:51 AM 2/21/2011, you wrote:
>
>Bob
>Thanks for clarifying.
>
>With relay circumvented (fat wires disconnected from relay but
>joined together), B+ = 11.6v steady; EIS steady 10.8v. No change to
>either reading with RPM increase.
Okay, this says the rectifier/regulator is bad
>Re the "little wires", neither had voltage with master on ALT.
????? Double failure ???? If there's no power
coming from the alternator switch, then you're
certainly not going to get the alternator on
line.
Trace the power flow from the bus through the
ALT switch to the relay.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Honeywell Rocker lamp wiring |
You're welcome Jon.
I'm attaching an Excel file that has both my switch and indicator
layout (I don't know if that will post properly on the list so I'm it
directly to you too.) My thinking at the time went something like this:
The first block of 3 switches handles the 2 busses and the buss
crossfeed switch. I assume I will normally fly with first 2 switches on
and the xfeed off so I have a backlit indicator that lights when I turn
it on.
The 2nd block of 4 switches include fuel boost and lights. Again, since
the fuel boost is normally off in flight, I added a lit indicator for
it. The light switches just need to be set and ignored so no indicators
for those other than switch position.
The next 2 switches are for AP navigation source switching and flaps.
Since there really isn't an off or on, no indicator other than switch
position.
I color coded the indicators based on the function. Oil Pressure and
Door are red no-go items, Master Warn (GRT) and Low voltage are yellow
warning items, Buss Xfeed and Fuel boost are green for normal operation
indications.
I have panel dimmers on my panel on my Maule but the switches are unlit
rockers. I end up keeping everything as dim as possible but when I use
a switch, I either do it by memory or I have to turn up the dimmer on
the post lights so I can see the switch. That was my original reason
for going with the backlit Honeywell's.
Two thoughts to consider:
- for night flight, you may not want a light to go bright and stay
that way. The point of dimming them is to improve your night vision so
outside of something you want a warning for, you may not want an
undimmed bright light that stays lit.
- I'm using LEDs in my switches and indicators. Not sure if that's
standard but I think there is an incandescent option. I'm thinking the
LEDs will last forever. In either case, I'm not sure if the dimmer and
voltage implications are different for each type.
Sounds like you are enjoying the electrical stuff as much as I did.
Have fun. Can't wait to fly mine.
Bill "back to masking and painting" Watson
On 2/20/2011 1:24 PM, jonlaury wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jonlaury"
>
> Bill,
> Thanks for your thoughts on wiring the AML series switches. After discussions with Perehelion, I've worked out a scheme to run the switch lamps at 12v (using http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/ds4/AN7712SP_BEB_discon.pdf) for dimming, but when the switch is ON, the lamp gets the bus voltage of 13.5v making them brighter than the dimmer circuit.
> I may have to adjust the max voltage of the dimmer circuit to get the bingo brightness
differential. Or this whole idea may end up in the trash and I simplify
to just hooking the dimmer directly to the lamps like you have done.
>
> John
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Video Inspection Tool |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Deal Extreme has a video Inspection Tool worth considering.
See: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/2-4-lcd-display-inspection-tube-snake-camera-borescope-ntsc-32414
Hey, free shipping. Amazing.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331768#331768
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage Protection |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
> There is a new device (at least new to me!) offered
> by Digikey. See: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=835-1126-1-ND
>
Bob,
I checked out that bilateral switch from Digikey. Unfortunately it is not stocked
and minimum order is 2500 pieces. I did find some other interesting devices
that could be used in an O.V. protection circuit.
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/LM/LM431B.pdf used in this circuit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crowbar_Circuit.jpg
And here is a 16.1 volt zener diode that might work in your circuit without voltage
dividing resisters:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=NZX16B,133virtualkey66800000virtualkey771-NZX16B,133
It might be fun playing around with some of these components. On the other hand,
it is hard to beat the proven circuit that you have provided.
Thanks for your advice.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331769#331769
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage |
Protection
I've built my own overvoltage crowbar with the MC3423 which is a dedicated
chip for the purpose - very easy to use and cheap enough. See
http://tailwindbuild.blogspot.com/2009/11/15th-november-2009-overvoltage-cro
wbar.html for details
Best regards
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: 21 February 2011 19:37
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators - Over Voltage
Protection
> There is a new device (at least new to me!) offered
> by Digikey. See:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=835-1126-1-
ND
>
Bob,
I checked out that bilateral switch from Digikey. Unfortunately it is not
stocked and minimum order is 2500 pieces. I did find some other interesting
devices that could be used in an O.V. protection circuit.
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/LM/LM431B.pdf used in this circuit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crowbar_Circuit.jpg
And here is a 16.1 volt zener diode that might work in your circuit without
voltage dividing resisters:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=NZX16B,133virtualkey668000
00virtualkey771-NZX16B,133
It might be fun playing around with some of these components. On the other
hand, it is hard to beat the proven circuit that you have provided.
Thanks for your advice.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331769#331769
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Problem |
| From: | "frank3" <frank3phyl(at)comcast.net> |
Bob
It is with a very bright red face I offer an apology for the time you've contributed
to my issue. After sending the last note I did as your note suggested--trace
the power from the master switch. After taking the panel out and checking
for connections & current flow I ended up at the circuit breaker. Guess what?
Yes, it had tripped. After resetting the breaker one of the relay "little
wires" showed battery current as you indicated and the regulator B+ showed 14v.
So sorry for not checking the breaker first! Now I'll have to be on the
lookout for whatever caused the breaker to trip the first time. For me it's been
very educational and I thank you.
--------
Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331772#331772
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | DIY Over Voltage Protection |
Bob,
I checked out that bilateral switch from Digikey. Unfortunately it is
not stocked and minimum order is 2500 pieces.
Hmmmm . . . my bad. I jumped on the full range of quanity
pricing starting with "1" but missed the fact that there
were none in stock.
I did find some other interesting devices that could be used in an
O.V. protection circuit.
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/LM/LM431B.pdf used in this circuit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crowbar_Circuit.jpg
Emacs!
This is a very rudimentary crowbar ov protection circuit.
It has no provisions for time-delay from onset of
ov condition. The LM431 is an integrated circuit
voltage regulator that can function as a zener
or, as shown above, a comparator. Further,
by adding a couple of resistors, you can calibrate
its switching point.
Out of the box calibration point for the
LM431 is 2.5 volts. So if you're wanting a
16.3 trip point, you can put 2.49K, 1% in
R2 and 13.7K, 1% in R1. You'd need a capacitor
across R2 to establish the cited time delay.
The problem to anticipate is setting a value
for the resistor from Gate to T1 of the triac.
For best noise immunity, it needs to be low,
like 10 ohms or so. Since the LM431 can't
deliver the high current pulse offered by
the legacy avalanche techniques, you may find
that optimum resistance for a good trigger
performance is too high for noise immunity.
When I run out of MBS4991, and assuming I'm
still offering crowbar ov modules, I'll look
at a variation using the LM431.
And here is a 16.1 volt zener diode that might work in your circuit
without voltage dividing resisters:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=NZX16B,133virtualkey66800000virtualkey771-NZX16B,133
If you can get it to hold tolerance over temperature
range. It's probably a 5% device to start with.
If you hung it from gate to ground, you'd have
to ADD the trigger voltage to the zener value to
deduce the trip point. Both gate and zener
voltage wobble with temperature pretty bad.
The schematic shown above (as modified) is
probably the best experiment to explore.
It might be fun playing around with some of these components.
Sure . . .
On the other hand, it is hard to beat the proven circuit that you
have provided.
The 'proven' circuits HAVE been field tested over
decades of experience and thousands of delivered
products. But virtually all received some degree
of optimization early in their service histories.
The solid state crowbar system proved a practical
for replacing electro-mechanical relays.
But history has repeatedly demonstrated that every
idea is subject to assault from new technologies,
processes and design goals.
Suggest you brass-board your experiments and give
them a try on the bench. You can do some pretty
good tests on effects of temperature using
your freezer.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <ainut(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
I got one at Harbor Freight built to specs for about $89. Works
great. Also, the monitor is actually removable and has video outputs so
you can tie it into a large screen and/or a recording device. If you
look in the archives, we had a long thread about it a while back.
David M.
Eric M. Jones wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
>
> Deal Extreme has a video Inspection Tool worth considering.
> See: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/2-4-lcd-display-inspection-tube-snake-camera-borescope-ntsc-32414
>
> Hey, free shipping. Amazing.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331768#331768
>
>
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Problem |
At 03:53 PM 2/21/2011, you wrote:
Bob
It is with a very bright red face I offer an apology for the time
you've contributed to my issue. After sending the last note I did as
your note suggested--trace the power from the master switch. After
taking the panel out and checking for connections & current flow I
ended up at the circuit breaker. Guess what? Yes, it had tripped.
Hmmm . . . something to add to your future
LO VOLTS checklist. Do you have a low volts
warning light? Do you have any notion of when
the alternator was lost and what was happening
at the time?
After resetting the breaker one of the relay "little wires" showed
battery current as you indicated and the regulator B+ showed 14v. So
sorry for not checking the breaker first! Now I'll have to be on the
lookout for whatever caused the breaker to trip the first time.
The legacy ovm designs are 99.9% resistant to transient
events on the system . . . but the reason we
recommend a breaker as opposed to a fuse is that
you can reset it ONE TIME after an OV trip just
to make sure it's a real OV condition and not a
nuisance trip.
For me it's been very educational and I thank you.
Your welcome. Nobody ever promised us that
education was 'cheap' . . . I've had some
expensive epiphanies over the years. Fortunately
none resulted in badly bent airplanes or bodily harm
that wouldn't heal. Lessons hard won at the
expense of $time$ and frustration are those
which are best retained.
The biggest upside of this exchange is that your
particular set of conditions COULD have been
root cause for your own (or somebody else's)
"dark-n-stormy-night" story. By discussing it
here in embarrassing detail means that interested
readers can harvest benefits that few stories in
the flying rags can offer.
Thank you for sharing . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better unit. Smaller
head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions. Soon they will be perfect
and free.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331778#331778
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | DIY CBOVM: variations on a theme |
> I am still wondering if a zener diode could be used instead of
> the SBS. If not, it would be interesting to know what the
> disadvantages of the zener diode are, or if it would even work at all.
>Thanks for any advice.
>Joe
Joe,
Feeling adventuresome? I pondered the idea
of exploiting the LM431's precise voltage set
point with a design goal of eliminating the
potentiometer and the post assembly calibration.
Here's what I came up with.
Emacs!
The parts count is unchanged but it should be
calibrated as soon as the last solder joint is
cool. Temperature stability should be as good
or better than any previous versions.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | " Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Trim tab slaving? |
Gang:
On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
is RAC
One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
connection.)
Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim tab,
either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%),
or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
Thanks,
Andy
------------------------
Andy Elliott
N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
298 hrs since 11/08
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
My RV has tabs on both elevators, each cable-driven by a single servo.
I think it would be needlessly complicated to get two servos married
together at all times. If you didn't do that, you'd have to have some
scheme to make sure they were at least able to be manually
coordinated.
I'd recommend extending the existing tab. You might not need as much
as you think. We regularly just tape a tab on temporarily until we
figure out what size to use.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
> Gang:
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
> control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
> allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
> like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
> elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
> is RAC
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
> connection.)
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim tab,
> either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%),
> or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
> might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Trim tab slaving? |
On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
like to be able to trim them away.
Andy,
Can your existing trim tab be adjusted to go slitely farther than it now
goes. I.e., can the actuator be adjusted to give a little more downward
deflection to the tab. Since you are on the edge of being in trim this
might be a solution without any further mods.
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Would VGs on the trim tab offer any benefit? Still might be ugly but
quick to try.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
On 02/22/2011 09:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
> Gang:
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out
> all control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half
> of the allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light,
> I would like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one
> side of the elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on
> each end. Servo is RAC
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
> connection.)
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
> tab, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta
> area <10%), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but
> ugly), or both. I might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the
> saving first.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
| From: | "jfogarty tds.net" <jfogarty(at)tds.net> |
Dr. Elliott, Is the up and down movement on your trim tab per your owners
manual? You should be able to adjust the push rod, however, I'm sure how
yours works.
Jim
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
> Gang:
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
> control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
> allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
> like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
> elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
> is RAC
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
> connection.)
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
> tab, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area
> <10%), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or
> both. I might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Take a look at the wickerbill, otherwise known in the U.S. as the Gurney
flap.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
> Gang:
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
> control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
> allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
> like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
> elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
> is RAC
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
> connection.)
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
> tab, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area
> <10%), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or
> both. I might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Good Morning Andy,
Have you thought about adding a small angle on the top and bottom of your
trim tab?
Some control surfaces experience seperation at the trailing edges. One
trick that has been used was to add a small angle to the trim tab or,
occasionally, the whole surface to increase effectiveness. Supposedly, if the
air
is separating at that point, the angles create very little additional drag
and do a good job of increasing affectivity. That was how Morane-Saulnier
solved the problem on their Paris Jet 760.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 2/22/2011 10:15:39 A.M. Central Standard Time,
mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net writes:
On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
like to be able to trim them away.
Andy,
Can your existing trim tab be adjusted to go slitely farther than it now
goes. I.e., can the actuator be adjusted to give a little more downward
deflection to the tab. Since you are on the edge of being in trim this might be
a
solution without any further mods.
Roger
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Andy,
there might be another way, on the Glastar a similar issue exists
especially for TD's. Two ways did help, first one was having a tape over
the hinge line between HS and Elevator, this did increase effectiveness
(not sure the 601 is using hinges?) Then another was to add some vortex
generator in front of the tab (lower side) increasing effectiveness of
the tab as well.
Werner
On 22.02.2011 16:09, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
> Gang:
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out
> all control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
| From: | Andrew Zachar <andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com> |
A T-strip would most effectively increase the hinge moment of the tab, thus
increasing it's effectiveness.
Be careful though, messing with hinge-moments on a surface so far away from
the elevator hinge line can quickly get you into trouble flutter-style if
you don't have some flutter analysis to back it up.
(Also, a t-strip on the tab would also increase the hinge moments on the
elevator resulting in higher longitudinal pitch forces.)
I'd stick with increased tab travel or second tab on the other elevator.
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:23 AM, rayj wrote:
>
> Would VGs on the trim tab offer any benefit? Still might be ugly but quick
> to try.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> On 02/22/2011 09:09 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
>
>> Gang:
>>
>>
>> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out
>> all control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half
>> of the allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light,
>> I would like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one
>>
>> side of the elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on
>> each end. Servo is RAC
>>
>> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
>> elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
>> together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
>> without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
>> found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
>> connection.)
>>
>> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
>> tab, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta
>> area <10%), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but
>> ugly), or both. I might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the
>> saving first.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------
>>
>> Andy Elliott
>>
>> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>>
>> 298 hrs since 11/08
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
--
Andrew Zachar
andrew.d.zachar(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil N <philn(at)toosan.com> |
| Subject: | a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
Maybe I missed the answer to this question in the text ...
I am unfortunately unable to install a backup power source (SD8, SD20) because
of how the engine mount on my RV4 comes across the back of the engine hear the
vacuum pump pad. That said, I am planning to install a 7AH backup (brownout?)
battery on a tray behind my instrument panel.
- I am wondering if I would be OK to install a switch in place of the brownout
battery relay? My only reason for this is that I have seen relays fail more often
than switches in my automation control field. I could be dissuaded.
- I ordered the BandC ebus diode on a heat sink based on an older copy of the 'Connection.
Now in 12a I see that a Schottky is mentioned. Any reason to abandon
the original diode plan?
- I plan to use the same PB/Tyco circuit breakers as Composite Designs uses in
their power panels. They have a circuit board that the PIDG terminals on the
breakers are connected to. My thought is to use a piece of brass and 'forest
of terminals' such as the ground plate BandC sells for power distribution to the
breakers. The plate would be insulated from the panel and covered to protect
inadvertent shorting by 'falling objects'. Does this sound reasonable?
Thank you!
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
I had a little cut-n-glue job in the woodshop this
morning . . . and had to fill a new dispenser bottle
with my favorite wood glue.
I occurred to me that builders here on the List might
be interested in the following:
I've found it useful to have lots of small glue bottles
around as opposed to one big one. Further, the bottles
used by Elmer's have a handy, narrow tip for precision
dispensing. The tip is liquid tight when closed.
Every fall before school starts, Walmart has a row
of bargain bins stocked with pencil paks, tablets,
etc. One bin will contain a bucket load of Elmer's
School Glue in these 4 oz bottles. I've paid as
little as $.25 for a bottle of glue.
Emacs!
You can rinse these out and refill with more
sophisticated products like glues, lubricants,
solvents, etc. The labels can be removed to
get a 'clean' bottle but it's pretty labor
intensive. Most of my 'recycled' bottles still
carry the original labels with a new tape-
label wrapped around and re-identified with a
Sharpie.
Unfortunately, the beginning of the next school
year is some time off . . . but perhaps this
note to the List will surface in the gray-matter
the next time you walk past a row of those pre-
school bargain bins. Snatch up a half dozen
or so . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Circuit emulator - Icircuit |
| From: | Robert Mitchell <rmitch1(at)hughes.net> |
Hi all,
I downloaded an app into my IPad called "icircuit", for $9.99 It is a circuit
emulator for the IPad. Since I know nothing about electronics, I thought it might
be an interesting way to learn! First problem was that I had to learn how
to use the program. In going to the main web site, i found a video demonstrating
the app;
http://icircuitapp.com/
I also found that the program is based on a set of free programs at;
www.falstad.com/circuit/
The whole thing is quite an eye opener into electronics, maybe one of the EE types
could comment on this whole deal, does it have a practical use to this group?
There is apparently a way to add circuits via email to the IPad version, haven't
figured that out yet?!
Bob Mitchell
L-320
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
At 02:49 PM 2/22/2011, you wrote:
>Maybe I missed the answer to this question in the text ...
>
>I am unfortunately unable to install a backup power source (SD8,
>SD20) because of how the engine mount on my RV4 comes across the
>back of the engine hear the vacuum pump pad. That said, I am
>planning to install a 7AH backup (brownout?) battery on a tray
>behind my instrument panel.
What equipment are you carrying that drives this
decision?
>- I am wondering if I would be OK to install a switch in place of
>the brownout battery relay? My only reason for this is that I have
>seen relays fail more often than switches in my automation control
>field. I could be dissuaded.
Not here to persuade you of anything . . . but
your worry-bucket seems to be carrying some
issues. It would be helpful to know more about
your equipment list and the reasons that drive
installation of a second battery. What failure
mode do you perceive that loss of the relay would
be a pre-cursor to your own dark-n-stormy-night
story? Things FAIL all the time in airplanes.
The best design goals call for crafting systems
that are failure tolerant.
>- I ordered the BandC ebus diode on a heat sink based on an older
>copy of the 'Connection. Now in 12a I see that a Schottky is
>mentioned. Any reason to abandon the original diode plan?
No.
>- I plan to use the same PB/Tyco circuit breakers as Composite
>Designs uses in their power panels. They have a circuit board that
>the PIDG terminals on the breakers are connected to. My thought is
>to use a piece of brass and 'forest of terminals' such as the ground
>plate BandC sells for power distribution to the breakers. The plate
>would be insulated from the panel and covered to protect inadvertent
>shorting by 'falling objects'. Does this sound reasonable?
No. To many parts and joints. Why not use breakers that
are bus-bar friendly?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
>
>
>- I ordered the BandC ebus diode on a heat sink . . .
What are your e-bus loads? Do you NEED a heat-sinked
normal feedpath diode? You're building a metal airplane.
I suspect the bare-foot rectifier assembly can be simply
bolted to some portion of the airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
| From: | "pmnewlon" <philn(at)toosan.com> |
Crud - I had all my answers typed in and forgot to copy/paste to notepad in case
I had been automagically logged out. I hit 'preview' and lost all I typed.
Back to the keyboard.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331868#331868
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "earl_schroeder(at)juno.com" <earl_schroeder(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
For those of us that bought the 'original' unit from HF, here is a link to the
10mm lens that is said to work. Now you can get into a spark plug hole..I have
not tried it.
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10211
Earl
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Video Inspection Tool
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:29:10 -0800
As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better unit. Smaller
head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions. Soon they will be perfect
and free.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
| From: | "pmnewlon" <philn(at)toosan.com> |
Bob - thanks for taking the time to provide feedback! My responses are in-line
below. Phil
>> (7AH backup) What equipment are you carrying that drives this decision?
Primarily my electronic ignition, EIS and EFIS
>> your worry-bucket seems to be carrying some issues.
It sure is! I only have one teenager and had some excess space in that bucket
:-)
I've experienced the failed alternator in a production airplane and don't want
to be there by my own doing in my homebuilt. The plane I owned was rented with
a flight school and I was at the mercy of their maintenance as were those who
rented it. It was stranded twice because of a failed alternator that wasn't
noticed in a timely fashion. The first sign of a problem was the comm radio no
longer transmitted. Short minutes later the nav would quit. Thankfully the
problem was never more nerve-wracking than having to abort the flight somewhat
short of the intended destination and it never happened while under IFR. My
plan is to have a well thought-out and implemented electrical system in my RV
that will provide the necessary ability to alert me to an issue then let me continue
without any worries for an hour minimum and up to two hours. That gives
me lots of options to complete the flight to a ho-hum end; most likely at the
intended destination.
>> (switch in place of the brownout battery relay) What failure mode do you perceive
that loss of the relay would be a pre-cursor to your own dark-n-stormy-night
story?
In hindsight I probably should have left this out. Comparing my auto industry
automation where the relays make and break thousands of times before failure compared
to fact that the switch that was used to set the machine in motion is
actuated one or more orders of magnitude fewer times isn't 'fair'. I had a relay
in my BandC shopping cart when I left work, I will just order it tomorrow
:-)
>> It would be helpful to know more about your equipment list and the reasons that
drive installation of a second battery.
The 'Connection basic list (xponder, nav radio, panel flood, turn coordinator)
plus my electronic ignition and a rear pax light. The ignition adds 2A to the
basic list, though I am debating putting one on the battery bus and the other
on the e-bus which would lighten the load by 1A to just under 4A.
>> What are your e-bus loads? Do you NEED a heat-sinked normal feedpath diode?
You're building a metal airplane. I suspect the bare-foot rectifier assembly can
be simply bolted to some portion of the airplane.
I already have the diode on a heat sink because I hadn't planned on the shelf behind
the panel for a small battery. Now that I am going to have a plate there,
the barefoot one would work but I will just stick with the one on a heatsink.
I was wondering about the Schottky diode and if there was a benefit to the
lower voltage losses when compared to the diode I have already.
>> (PB/Tyco circuit breakers connected to forest of tabs bus) Too many parts and
joints. Why not use breakers that are bus-bar friendly?
Size, weight and cost. I'll admit I like the way they look and that I'm not excited
about fuse blocks.
>> Maybe I missed the answer to this question in the text ...
I started to ask just one question - the one about the relay - and then just kept
adding more. I miss a lot in the text that I pick up when I reread sections.
I recently updated from v10 to v12a and I have to start from square two. So
much to learn.... Frankly the adventure of rewiring my airplane has been made
tremendously easier because of your text and website. I've gone from tentatively
engaging to full-on fun with it because of them!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331878#331878
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <ainut(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
Has anyone tried this smaller head with the HF 66550 unit? Btw, when I
search the HF site for that part number, it returns zero hits. .
Guess it's been replaced but it looks like the replacement does not have
the removable screen.
For $70, I'd like to be *sure* it works before I buy one. Done that too
many times and wasted dollars. :)
Thanks,
David
earl_schroeder(at)juno.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "earl_schroeder(at)juno.com"
>
> For those of us that bought the 'original' unit from HF, here is a link to the
10mm lens that is said to work. Now you can get into a spark plug hole..I have
not tried it.
>
> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10211
>
> Earl
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Eric M. Jones"<emjones(at)charter.net>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Video Inspection Tool
> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:29:10 -0800
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
>
> As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better unit. Smaller
head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions. Soon they will be perfect
and free.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
On 02/21/2011 05:29 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
>
> As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better
> unit. Smaller head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions.
> Soon they will be perfect and free.
Can this thing really get into a 10mm sparkplug hole?
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
Dennis,
I recently purchased the General Instruments CDS300 on sale from Harbor Freight
(~$90) and it came with 3 meter cable and 9mm camera head. I haven't tried
it yet, but it sure looks like it would peek into a spark plug hole.
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Feb 22, 2011, at 19:21, Dennis Golden wrote:
>
> On 02/21/2011 05:29 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>> As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better
>> unit. Smaller head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions.
>> Soon they will be perfect and free.
>
> Can this thing really get into a 10mm sparkplug hole?
>
> --
> Dennis Golden
> Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Video Inspection Tool |
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
David,
The General Instruments GSC300 does not have the removable screen. You have to
go to the GSC400 and spend a lot more $$$ for that option.
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Feb 22, 2011, at 19:13, David wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried this smaller head with the HF 66550 unit? Btw, when I search
the HF site for that part number, it returns zero hits. . Guess it's
been replaced but it looks like the replacement does not have the removable screen.
> For $70, I'd like to be *sure* it works before I buy one. Done that too many
times and wasted dollars. :)
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
> earl_schroeder(at)juno.com wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "earl_schroeder(at)juno.com"
>>
>> For those of us that bought the 'original' unit from HF, here is a link to the
10mm lens that is said to work. Now you can get into a spark plug hole..I
have not tried it.
>>
>> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10211
>>
>> Earl
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: "Eric M. Jones"<emjones(at)charter.net>
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Video Inspection Tool
>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:29:10 -0800
>>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
>>
>> As these things go, I think you'll find this one is a much better unit. Smaller
head (10 mm) longer reach (90 cm) higher resolutions. Soon they will be perfect
and free.
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>> (508) 764-2072
>> emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
| From: | Tom Koelzer <40950(at)rv10.net> |
Dr Elliot,
Adjust / extend the throw or extend the trim tab chord with a temporary tab,
which ever is more convenient, and measure the effect. We used to use simpl
e hanging scales like those to weight small fish to measure stick forces at r
epeatable flight conditions. Baseline the forces at the desired landing conf
iguration, weight, and CG location first. Make the tab mods and analyze the r
esults. If there is no noticeable change then there may be some flow separat
ion on the underside of the elevator as others have suggested that has contr
ibuted to the problem. Elevator seals and/or vortex generators at or forward
of the elevator hinge line area might help. I would not entertain the comp
lexity of synchronizing trim motors. Too hard.
Once you find what works the best, be sure and test the rest of the trim env
elope at various speeds and CG/wt conditions to ensure flying qualities over
all are still ok. Then construct a permanent change and verify via a retest
of the same conditions. Then publish findings to all.
Tom
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:09 AM, " Dr. Andrew Elliott" wro
te:
> Gang:
>
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would l
ike to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the e
levator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo i
s RAC
>
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the eleva
tor. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides together.
Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically without very h
igh cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't found it? (The e
levator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical connection.)
>
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim ta
b, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%
), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trim tab slaving? |
| From: | Tom Koelzer <40950(at)rv10.net> |
Dr Elliot,
Adjust / extend the throw or extend the trim tab chord with a temporary tab,
which ever is more convenient, and measure the effect. We used to use simpl
e hanging scales like those to weight small fish to measure stick forces at r
epeatable flight conditions. Baseline the forces at the desired landing conf
iguration, weight, and CG location first. Make the tab mods and analyze the r
esults. If there is no noticeable change then there may be some flow separat
ion on the underside of the elevator as others have suggested that has contr
ibuted to the problem. Elevator seals and/or vortex generators at or forward
of the elevator hinge line area might help. I would not entertain the comp
lexity of synchronizing trim motors. Too hard.
Once you find what works the best, be sure and test the rest of the trim env
elope at various speeds and CG/wt conditions to ensure flying qualities over
all are still ok. Then construct a permanent change and verify via a retest
of the same conditions. Then publish findings to all.
Tom
On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:09 AM, " Dr. Andrew Elliott" wro
te:
> Gang:
>
>
>
> On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would l
ike to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the e
levator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo i
s RAC
>
>
>
> One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the eleva
tor. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides together.
Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically without very h
igh cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't found it? (The e
levator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical connection.)
>
>
>
> Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim ta
b, either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%
), or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> Andy Elliott
>
> N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
> 298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: a couple questions about Z10/8 diagram |
At 08:13 PM 2/22/2011, you wrote:
Bob - thanks for taking the time to provide feedback! My responses
are in-line below. Phil
>> (7AH backup) What equipment are you carrying that drives this decision?
Primarily my electronic ignition, EIS and EFIS
How much time to you expect to spend with
your head in the clouds?
>> your worry-bucket seems to be carrying some issues.
It sure is! I only have one teenager and had some excess space in
that bucket :-)
Understand.
I've experienced the failed alternator in a production airplane and
don't want to be there by my own doing in my homebuilt. The plane I
owned was rented with a flight school and I was at the mercy of their
maintenance as were those who rented it.
Yup, been there, done that. But keep in mind that
the service life of alternators on t/c aircraft is
miserable. Plane power, B&C, and many OBAM aircraft
builders are adapting modern alternators to aircraft
with great results. B&C's return rate is a very small
number of the total fleet. I suspect others are seeing
similar performance.
Keep in mind, that for every dark-n-stormy-night story
about some failure, there are thousands of other non-
stories that you never hear about. The real risks for
tense days in the cockpit due to alternator failure
are a tiny fraction of what your grandpa had to endure
on his Cherokee that keeps breaking certified brackets.
It was stranded twice because of a failed alternator that wasn't
noticed in a timely fashion.
Typical TC aircraft . . . no timely notification of
low voltage. Most dark-n-stormy-night story tellers
say the first notion they had for a failed alternator
was when the panel started going black/silent.
The first sign of a problem was the comm radio no longer
transmitted. Short minutes later the nav would quit. Thankfully the
problem was never more nerve-wracking than having to abort the flight
somewhat short of the intended destination and it never happened
while under IFR. My plan is to have a well thought-out and implemented
By 'implemented' I hope you mean WELL maintained.
Your ship's main battery should not be run until it
no longer cranks the engine. It needs to be replaced
when its MEASURED capacity no longer supports your
design goals for alternator out endurance.
. . electrical system in my RV that will provide the necessary
ability to alert me to an issue then let me continue without any
worries for an hour minimum and up to two hours. That gives me lots
of options to complete the flight to a ho-hum end; most likely at the
intended destination.
Okay, what's your endurance load?
>> (switch in place of the brownout battery relay) What failure mode
do you perceive that loss of the relay would be a pre-cursor to your
own dark-n-stormy-night story?
In hindsight I probably should have left this out. Comparing my auto
industry automation where the relays make and break thousands of
times before failure compared to fact that the switch that was used
to set the machine in motion is actuated one or more orders of
magnitude fewer times isn't 'fair'. I had a relay in my BandC
shopping cart when I left work, I will just order it tomorrow :-)
What electronic ignition(s) are planned?
>> It would be helpful to know more about your equipment list and
the reasons that drive installation of a second battery.
The 'Connection basic list (xponder, nav radio, panel flood, turn
coordinator) plus my electronic ignition and a rear pax light. The
ignition adds 2A to the basic list, though I am debating putting one
on the battery bus and the other on the e-bus which would lighten the
load by 1A to just under 4A.
Okay, it looks like you need 2 hours at a 4A rate.
An exemplar 17 a.h. battery discharged at 4.25A
is good for 3 hours new
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/17AH_12V_Capacity_vs_Load.gif
and 2+ hours at end of life.
>> What are your e-bus loads? Do you NEED a heat-sinked normal
feedpath diode? You're building a metal airplane. I suspect the
bare-foot rectifier assembly can be simply bolted to some portion of
the airplane.
I already have the diode on a heat sink because I hadn't planned on
the shelf behind the panel for a small battery. Now that I am going
to have a plate there, the barefoot one would work but I will just
stick with the one on a heatsink. I was wondering about the Schottky
diode and if there was a benefit to the lower voltage losses when
compared to the diode I have already.
No advantage from an energy conservation perspective
(the main alternator is up and running when that diode
is in service). There's an advantage that less heat sink
is needed. The Schottky would most certainly run well
"bare-sinked".
>> (PB/Tyco circuit breakers connected to forest of tabs bus) Too
many parts and joints. Why not use breakers that are bus-bar friendly?
Size, weight and cost. I'll admit I like the way they look and that
I'm not excited about fuse blocks.
But I'm not excited about all the monkey-motion for using
these fast-on terminated devices. Please consider the miniature
screw-terminal devices.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Klixon_1.jpg
>> Maybe I missed the answer to this question in the text ...
I started to ask just one question - the one about the relay - and
then just kept adding more. I miss a lot in the text that I pick up
when I reread sections. I recently updated from v10 to v12a and I
have to start from square two. So much to learn.... Frankly the
adventure of rewiring my airplane has been made tremendously easier
because of your text and website. I've gone from tentatively
engaging to full-on fun with it because of them!
Good. Wiring your airplane ought to be the fun part.
A guy who attended my second or third seminar way back when
wrote to me a couple weeks after the seminar. He had been
sticking electro-whizzies in his LongEz for years. After
the seminar, he went home, ripped it all out and wrote
to tell me it all went back in a couple weekends but with
confidence of understanding.
I'm not convinced that you need two batteries yet . . .
Reducing battery maintenance to two articles will pay
for the better breakers in a few years.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Trim tab slaving? |
2/23/2011
Hello Andy, Is it possible to reduce the length of the lever arm between the
pushrod end and the trim tab surface thereby gaining increased movement of
the trim tab arc for each longitudinal movement of the pushrod?
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
==========================================================
From: " Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim tab slaving?
Gang:
On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
is RAC
One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
connection.)
Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim tab,
either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%),
or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
Thanks,
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim S <gjs55(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Great ebay deal on Kroy K4100 shrink wrap label printer |
I hope this is allowed on this list - great tool for wiring. Check out this
new Kroy shrink wrap-label printer - purchased new for aircraft wiring p
roject - never used --7 boxes of shrink wrap and 1 box of wire marker inc
luded.
-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160550371023&ssPageNam
e=STRK:MESELX:IT
-
If this link doesn't work just go to ebay and search Kroy K4100.- Contact
me through ebay or gjs55(at)yahoo.com Thanks.
-
Jim=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
Hi Andy-
For what it's worth, I'd suggest there are a couple questions to answer prior to
modifying your plane. You may have already run these issues to ground, and
if so please disregard the first portion of this note. The first question is,
is this trait common to the design? If it is not a common issue, I would suggest
verifying your ASI operation / calibration and CG calculations prior to making
any changes.
The other observation is to be aware of the effect of increased up trim authority
on go around performance. There is the possibility that using increased nose
up pitch trim for a low power or power off gliding situation could lead to
unexpectedly (startlingly?) high pitch up tendencies when go around power is applied.
YMMV-
>From: " Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim tab slaving?
>
>Gang:
>
>
>On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
>control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of the
>allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
>like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of the
>elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end. Servo
>is RAC
>
>
>One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
>elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
>together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
>without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
>found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
>connection.)
>
>
>Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim tab,
>either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area <10%),
>or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
>might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Andy
>
>
>------------------------
>
>Andy Elliott
>
>N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
>
>298 hrs since 11/08
>
>
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery box being demanded |
| From: | "RayStL" <raystl(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
Here is an excerpt from an email I received yesterday...
> Hello ray,
>
> After further review, Transport Canada has no objection that you continue operating
aircraft registered C-GJRL in the present configuration.
Yay.
--ray :D
--------
Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331962#331962
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery box being demanded |
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
Ray,
CONGRATS!!
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Feb 23, 2011, at 16:18, RayStL wrote:
>
> Here is an excerpt from an email I received yesterday...
>
>
>> Hello ray,
>>
>> After further review, Transport Canada has no objection that you continue operating
aircraft registered C-GJRL in the present configuration.
>
>
> Yay.
> --ray :D
>
> --------
> Ray St-Laurent
> 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab slaving? |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
Some airplanes also benefit from a little ballast in the baggage
compartment. Yours might be a candidate for 25 pounds of kitty litter,
which can also come in handy if you really need to pee.
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Glen Matejcek wrote:
> aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Hi Andy-
>
> For what it's worth, I'd suggest there are a couple questions to answer
> prior to modifying your plane. You may have already run these issues to
> ground, and if so please disregard the first portion of this note. The
> first question is, is this trait common to the design? If it is not a
> common issue, I would suggest verifying your ASI operation / calibration and
> CG calculations prior to making any changes.
>
> The other observation is to be aware of the effect of increased up trim
> authority on go around performance. There is the possibility that using
> increased nose up pitch trim for a low power or power off gliding situation
> could lead to unexpectedly (startlingly?) high pitch up tendencies when go
> around power is applied.
>
> YMMV-
>
>
> >From: " Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim tab slaving?
> >
> >Gang:
> >
> >
> >On my 601XL, the elevator trim tab is not effective enough to trim out all
> >control forces on a full-flap final when the CG is in the front half of
> the
> >allowed range. Although the remaining elevator forces are light, I would
> >like to be able to trim them away. The trim tab is inset on one side of
> the
> >elevator, and takes the entire width, minus about 20 mm on each end.
> Servo
> >is RAC
> >
> >
> >One option would be to add another trim tab to the other side of the
> >elevator. But to do that I would need some way to slave the two sides
> >together. Does anyone have an idea about how to do that electronically
> >without very high cost, or perhaps some way already exists and I haven't
> >found it? (The elevator design doesn't allow for a simple mechanical
> >connection.)
> >
> >
> >Another option, of course, would to be to increase the size of the trim
> tab,
> >either making it full width (probably not too effective - delta area
> <10%),
> >or extending it aft 20-25 mm (probably would work, but ugly), or both. I
> >might go that way, but thought I'd ask about the saving first.
> >
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Andy
> >
> >
> >------------------------
> >
> >Andy Elliott
> >
> >N601GE/Z601XL/TD/Corvair
> >
> >298 hrs since 11/08
> >
> >
>
>
> Glen Matejcek
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How should I use the AeroElectric Panel Grounding Hub? |
| From: | "jhclarkfl" <jhclarkfl(at)me.com> |
I purchased the Panel Grounding Hub because it sounded like a great device and
because it comes from Bob. But since getting the hub, I have read about concerns
about grounding avionics through the hub because of current limitations of
the individual pins and the potential of exceeding the current capability of the
hub and the 4 or 5 20 ga ground wires run to the Forrest of Tabs. Something
was also mentioned about all ground wires not being equal such as when a 16
or 18ga wire is split into two 20ga wires for insertion into the hub.
I understand that low power grounds such as from LED Panel lights are a good choice
for the hub. But I am installing a g430W, a SL-40, a GTX-327, a PS5000EX,
Dual GRT HX Displays, the GRT Autopilot when it is released, a AFS Sport AoA,
GRT EIS and a TruTrac Turn and Bank indicator. Some of these individually have
fairly low current requirements but as a collective, the current is considerable.
I need some advise from the experts as to what can be run to ground via the hub
and what needs to be run directly to the Forrest of Tabs. I would optimally
like to utilize the hub as much as possible merely to control the wire runs.
Thanks for your help,
--------
Jack Clark
RV-8A Fuselage
http://www.mykitlog.com/jackclark/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331983#331983
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How should I use the AeroElectric Panel Grounding |
Hub?
On 2/23/2011 7:41 PM, jhclarkfl wrote:
> -I have read about concerns about grounding avionics through the hub because
of current limitations of the individual pins and the potential of exceeding the
current capability of the hub and the 4 or 5 20 ga ground wires run to the
Forrest of Tabs. Something was also mentioned about all ground wires not being
equal such as when a 16 or 18ga wire is split into two 20ga wires for insertion
into the hub.
>
>
> --------
> Jack Clark
> RV-8A Fuselage
> http://www.mykitlog.com/jackclark/
>
>
> I used Bob's Avionics ground bus and liked it. The only difficulty, and it's
no big deal, is the Comm grounds. Both of mine (A210 and 430W) require 18 awg
wire. So I just ganged the 18 awg wire into 2 pins with 20 awg wire using solder
sleeves. No big deal, easy to do. Nothing else on my panel comes close to the
limit for the pins except I do have an electric nose lift (10 amps max) that
is not grounded yet. I have been debating putting this on the bus with 3 20awg
wires/pins. Bob?
HTH, Tim Andres
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How should I use the AeroElectric Panel Grounding |
Hub?
At 10:41 PM 2/23/2011, you wrote:
I purchased the Panel Grounding Hub because it sounded like a great
device and because it comes from Bob. But since getting the hub, I
have read about concerns about grounding avionics through the hub
because of current limitations of the individual pins and the
potential of exceeding the current capability of the hub and the 4 or
5 20 ga ground wires run to the Forrest of Tabs.
So how much current do you anticipate your panel
grounds will need?
Something was also mentioned about all ground wires not being
equal such as when a 16 or 18ga wire is split into two 20ga wires
for insertion into the hub.
Don't split stranding of wires. What items
on the panel require 16 or 18 AWG ground
wires and how much current is flowing
in these wires?
I understand that low power grounds such as from LED Panel lights are
a good choice for the hub. But I am installing a g430W, a SL-40, a
GTX-327, a PS5000EX, Dual GRT HX Displays, the GRT Autopilot when it
is released, a AFS Sport AoA, GRT EIS and a TruTrac Turn and Bank
indicator. Some of these individually have fairly low current
requirements but as a collective, the current is considerable.
Define "considerable". The current drains of all
these devices is known . . . by somebody. The total
current that can be loaded to 5x20AWG bundle to
the forest of tabs is 25A . . . do you think you're
going to push this?
If necessary, you can use more leads to the firewall,
or solder 12AWG wires to the bottom of the panel
bus . . . but please do these kinds of things because
you KNOW it's necessary/useful, not because lots of
folks poured their own uncertainties into your worry
bucket.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How should I use the AeroElectric Panel Grounding |
Hub?
I used Bob's Avionics ground bus and liked it. The only difficulty,
and it's no big deal, is the Comm grounds. Both of mine (A210 and
430W) require 18 awg wire. So I just ganged the 18 awg wire into 2
pins with 20 awg wire using solder sleeves.
22AWG pigtails of 6" are recommended but don't
change what you have. There's no way the radios
you mentioned are pushing the capabilities of an
18AWG wire.
A few years ago I described a technique I used
to parallel pins to achieve a high current
power path through a d-sub connector:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/Paralleled_D-Sub_Pins.jpg
This was qualified for use on a system subject to,
shall we say, 'stressful' environmental conditions?
The idea was that short but SIGNIFICANT lengths
of 22AWG wire could be used as ballasting resistors
to insure a degree of current sharing between
paralleled pins. For the purposes of bailing the
worry-buckets of some skeptics, I de-rated each
pin down to 3A for qualification on this vehicle.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_1st_Ops_Flight.jpg
As a practical matter, 4 to 5 amps per pin
stays well inside ratings for the device when
installed in benign environment YOU share
the same space in the airframe as the radios.
The environs enjoyed by the panel ground bus
is not especially stressful.
No big deal, easy to do. Nothing else on my panel comes close to the
limit for the pins except I do have an electric nose lift (10 amps
max) that is not grounded yet.
How did THAT load become a "panel" equipment load.
The intent of the panel ground bus is to provide a
localized, clean terminus for potential victims
(avionics and instrumentation). This design goal is
dishonored if one starts tying gear motors, landing
lights, pitot heat, etc. etc. to this bus.
I have been debating putting this on the bus with 3 20awg wires/pins.
Are you running out of pins in the bus? Recommend you
put all 5 wires in as suggested. Never can tell what you
might add to the bus in the future . . . long after you've
forgotten why it was a good idea to use only 3 wires.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
Hi Bob, et al
A fellow (RV-9a) builder has raised a querry I thought I knew the answer to:
my friend is going to wire (eg: wing tip 'nav' lights) with common
(airframe) return, plus wire feed return - I was under the impression that
this is not nessecary, and is in fact undesirable
As always your advice is welcome
Best regards
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | I found some magic smoke |
List guys=2C for your amusement=3B
I know how to hook up a multimeter=2C but yesterday I was a little too
careless to verify the setting before I tried checking the voltage my
airplane's new battery.
I quickly found out where my multimeter stores it's magic smoke!! It's n
ear the bottom=2C
where the leads attach!! I comes out in large plumes from the lead holes.
Yep=2C my fairly
new Etec multimeter was toasted=2C and now it has readings all over the pla
ce! The readings just
jumps around=2C never settle on any specific number. Rats!!
What is especially annoying is we recently found out WalMart evidently do
esn't sell this
particular model of multimeter anymore=2C and that's too bad=2C because I r
eally did like it.
The last time I tried fix the previous multimeter I had=2C (someone spill
ed coffee in it) which
was the exact same model=2C I didn't have much success. I hoped I could tr
y to fix this one=2C
maybe with better results this time.
So=2C I took this apart yesterday=2C and found that some kind of large wi
re/fuse thing got fried=2C
plus it blew the itty bitty fuse (no biggie on this one). I got out my sol
dering iron=2C fashioned
a similar piece or wire=2C and removed the old crispy one=2C scraped away t
he carbon and gunk=2C and
replaced it with the new one=2C and replaced the blown fuse. Whoa!! To my
surprise=2C it works
good as new...well=2C sort of. It still has that 'magic smoke' smell=2C bu
t maybe that will remind
me to hook it up properly from now on!!!
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marvin Haught <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I found some magic smoke |
Hey! I'll try that on mine that doesn't work! The taking apart and
repair, that is! Hope I don't discover the magic smoke container! I
suspect mine was a WalMart return that had the same treatment you did to
yours - and because I didn't use it for several months, didn't discover
it was bad until I went to use it with the thermocouple you sent me.
That is probably why mine didn't have the thermocouple with it.
If the repair doesn't last, let me know what unit you end up replacing
it with. I've been looking for something similar, but haven't found
anything yet.
M. Haught
On 2/24/2011 11:02 AM, Mike Welch wrote:
> List guys, for your amusement;
>
> I know how to hook up a multimeter, but yesterday I was a little too
> careless to verify the setting before I tried checking the voltage my
> airplane's new battery.
>
> I quickly found out where my multimeter stores it's magic smoke!!
> It's near the bottom,
> where the leads attach!! I comes out in large plumes from the lead
> holes. Yep, my fairly
> new Etec multimeter was toasted, and now it has readings all over the
> place! The readings just
> jumps around, never settle on any specific number. Rats!!
>
> What is especially annoying is we recently found out WalMart
> evidently doesn't sell this
> particular model of multimeter anymore, and that's too bad, because I
> really did like it.
>
> The last time I tried fix the previous multimeter I had, (someone
> spilled coffee in it) which
> was the exact same model, I didn't have much success. I hoped I could
> try to fix this one,
> maybe with better results this time.
> So, I took this apart yesterday, and found that some kind of large
> wire/fuse thing got fried,
> plus it blew the itty bitty fuse (no biggie on this one). I got out
> my soldering iron, fashioned
> a similar piece or wire, and removed the old crispy one, scraped away
> the carbon and gunk, and
> replaced it with the new one, and replaced the blown fuse. Whoa!! To
> my surprise, it works
> good as new...well, sort of. It still has that 'magic smoke' smell,
> but maybe that will remind
> me to hook it up properly from now on!!!
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Earth return |
At 11:40 AM 2/24/2011, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Bob, et al
>
>A fellow (RV-9a) builder has raised a querry I thought I knew the
>answer to: my friend is going to wire (eg: wing tip 'nav' lights)
>with common (airframe) return, plus wire feed return - I was under
>the impression that this is not nessecary, and is in fact undesirable
An additional wire only adds weight to the airplane
. . . and raises eyebrows on competent observers
who might notice it in the future.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I found some magic smoke |
At 12:02 PM 2/24/2011, you wrote:
>List guys, for your amusement;
>
> I know how to hook up a multimeter, but yesterday I was a little too
>careless to verify the setting before I tried checking the voltage my
>airplane's new battery.
>
> I quickly found out where my multimeter stores it's magic
> smoke!! It's near the bottom,
>where the leads attach!! I comes out in large plumes from the lead
>holes. Yep, my fairly
>new Etec multimeter was toasted, and now it has readings all over
>the place! The readings just
>jumps around, never settle on any specific number.
This one?
Emacs!
>
> What is especially annoying is we recently found out WalMart
> evidently doesn't sell this
>particular model of multimeter anymore, and that's too bad, because
>I really did like it.
Every multi-meter of this genre' has what appears to
be a 'fat wire' jumper on the board that looks something
like this:
Emacs!
Further, there will be one or more GMA series fuses
in open clips. The 'fat wire' is the high current shunt. It
a special alloy with a callibrated resistance. The really
GOOD ones use manganin wire which offers very low temperature
coefficient of resistance.
The fuse will be a very low current device . . . usually
0.5A or less that protects the lower current ranges from
overload . . . and may protect the ohmmeter circuitry
too.
It sounds like your test leads were set up for a high
current measurement (that is not protected) which
warmed things up rather severely. There's a seller on
Ebay offering the model above for $40 shipping paid.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | I found some magic smoke |
>This one?
>Bob
Hi Bob=2C
Yes=2C that's the one. Yes=2C the large wire you refer to (shunt) is th
e one that
got toasted. Yes=2C the little fuse was 500mA. Yes=2C I accidently tried
to measure
the 12V battery's current=2C although I didn't intend to!
Although I realize my make-shift wire replacement would never pass for an
y
real calibrated shunt=2C for what I use the multimeter for=2C it should be
fine. I don't
generally ever check for current=2C and even in this case it was an acciden
t.
I have two other multimeters that I could use if I was especially concern
ed about
an accurate figure. As best as I can tell=2C the resistance function appea
rs to be
unaffected=2C and that is mainly what I use this multimeter for. So far=2C
a random sampling
of various resistors still appear to be as expected.
Thanks=2C Mike
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February 13, 2011 - February 24, 2011
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-kd