AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-lc
April 28, 2012 - May 20, 2012
Expanding that train of thought. GP2(Pin5) is not
used in the Wig-Wag controller. You could write this
port HI and LO along with, say GP5(Pin 2). We could
wire an external LED from P1-10 to ground. The pull
up would give 1 mA of drive to the LED . . . probably
enough for useful light output as a tell-tale.
This argues with the legacy philosophy of never taking
any connection to silicon directly to the outside world.
In this case, the LED would be on the end of a shielded
wire terminated at the controller. This level of protection
from ingress of EMC uglies is probably sufficient to
protect the PICChip. I'll pray over that idea some
more . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Top Aviation Website Award |
Very well deserved Bob! Your efforts in the world of all things electrons h
as benefited a vast number of folks. Your book comes up in every blog I fre
quent as the Go-To manual for aviation electronics, and I personally thank
you for all of your help.-=0ADan B=0AMesa, AZ=0A=0A=0A=0A>_______________
_________________=0A> From: nuckollsr <bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>=0A>To
: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com =0A>Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 4:45 A
M=0A>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Top Aviation Website Award=0A> =0A>-->
AeroElectric-List message posted by: "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls@aeroelectri
c.com>=0A>=0A>Thank you sir. That came right out of the blue some time back
.- I got an e-mail announcing the selection of aeroelectric.com to carry
the logo. At first I thought it was some sort of promotional thing but I vi
sited their main website and found that the spirit and intent of their effo
rts agreed with their advertisements.=0A>=0A>Never learned how they 'found'
the website, they didn't mention any sort of nomination process. Neverthel
ess, I'm pleased that they recognized the effort for what it promotes. Just
wish I had more time to finish indexing the website's content. It's gettin
g so big I can't find things as quickly as I used to!=0A>=0A>Bob . . .=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics
=========================0A
=========================0A
=========================0A
>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Developing the initial software for the wig-wag project |
| From: | "gregmchugh" <gregmchugh(at)aol.com> |
Here is the document I put together describing the work involved with
the development of the initial software for the wig-wag controller. It
should give those who are interested some idea of what is involved
in the process. Hopefully others will jump into the pool and get
involved with putting together software for this project and future
follow-on projects. Take a look and, as always, I welcome any and
all feedback...
Greg McHugh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372025#372025
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/developing_the_initial_software_for_the_open_source_wig_wag_project_677.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Open Source controller idea |
Thanks for the comments and ideas. I would like to learn enough about
modular electronics and controllers and the current Wig-Wag thread is
interesting.
I found a hint of what the Arduino can do investigating LEDs for cabin lighting:
http://www.ladyada.net/products/rgbledstrip/
And the beginnings of an account of one fellow's Arduino learning adventure:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/guides/2012/04/bitten-buy-the-maker-bug-one-mans-first-steps-with-arduino.ars
As to the Vertical Power application, of course I need to get more
information about the VP-X's inputs and outputs. I hope to keep
pursuing that idea as the company has no interest in it and I think
there is a lot of potential.
RF
On Apr 28, 2012, at 7:55 AM, gregmchugh wrote:
>
> Ralph,
>
> Looks like an interesting project. Without seeing more detail on the
> various functions and the interfaces between the modules it is
> hard to assess what might be needed for the application. My initial
> reaction is that it would be a candidate for using an Arduino based
> module. Arduino is an open source hardware/software design with
> just about any type of interface and graphics display already
> designed and readily available. If you want to proceed with the
> project I would recommend putting together a simple system
> block diagram showing the interfaces between the various
> system components and some idea of the information passed
> through the interfaces. If you take a look at info on Arduino
> options you should be able to get an idea of what can be done
> with off-the-shelf hardware and software. Especially for a touch
> screen display you will find the hardware and software drivers
> already done for Arduino. Take a look at Sparkfun or Adafruit
> websites for a good overview of what is already available.
>
> I expect you could also use one of the PIC processors and a
> specific controller design but it might be hard to beat the
> fast time-to-complete you would get with Arduino. The price
> of Arduino hardware is generally pretty good also.
>
> How big of a touch screen display are you considering? If it
> gets large you might also consider the possibility an
> off the shelf Android Tablet for the display. The price of generic
> Android tablets is getting pretty low.
>
> Greg McHugh
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371994#371994
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | Shunt insulation |
G'day Bob,
My shunt is mounted in the 'hot' wire between the live post of the starter
contactor (not measuring start currents) and the main and avionics busses.
The B-lead is upstream (so to speak - depends whether we're talking
electrons or holes !), so I can read the current into and out of the
battery. I've already 1A fused the signal leads (which go to my EFIS), but
I wanted additional insulation around the shunt to protect from shorts
should anything metalic fall between it and the fuselage during aerobatics.
I don't really understand how a shunt is calibrated, so I'm wondering if
clear heatshrink and having the shunt on the back of the firewall will alter
the temperature environment of the shunt enough to affect it's calibration?
You may be able to see the heatshrink in the photo ... which has holes
punched for the terminals to screw down.
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John MacCallum" <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Shunt insulation |
G'day Stu,
No it won't be affected by temperature enough to be a problem. A shunt is a
low value resistor in series with the circuit you want to measure the
current in.
An ammeter is a sensitive volt meter that measure the voltage being dropped
across the shunt (resistor).
The calibration of the shunt will the depend on the Full scale deflection
current required by the Ammeter.
Needless to say just use the shunt supplied with the engine monitor package
and you will be ok.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV10 #41016
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
Hutchison
Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 1:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shunt insulation
G'day Bob,
My shunt is mounted in the 'hot' wire between the live post of the starter
contactor (not measuring start currents) and the main and avionics busses.
The B-lead is upstream (so to speak - depends whether we're talking
electrons or holes !), so I can read the current into and out of the
battery. I've already 1A fused the signal leads (which go to my EFIS), but
I wanted additional insulation around the shunt to protect from shorts
should anything metalic fall between it and the fuselage during aerobatics.
I don't really understand how a shunt is calibrated, so I'm wondering if
clear heatshrink and having the shunt on the back of the firewall will alter
the temperature environment of the shunt enough to affect it's calibration?
You may be able to see the heatshrink in the photo ... which has holes
punched for the terminals to screw down.
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
Is there physics to the comment below?
I happened to pick up the comment on a jeep forum where the guys buy
an antenna with a stock length of coax and don't have the ability to
change the length.
Apperciate any comments. Thanks, Paul
DO NOT coil your antenna coax lead or let it cross over itself, to
get the best reception and transmission from your radio. I have now
tried this and found significant increases for both. Run your lead
around the seat, around the roof, or whatever you have to do to
prevent crossover of the lead, next to itself. You will find much
improvement in your reception.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 06:39 AM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
Is there physics to the comment below?
I happened to pick up the comment on a jeep forum where the guys buy
an antenna with a stock length of coax and don't have the ability to
change the length.
Apperciate any comments. Thanks, Paul
DO NOT coil your antenna coax lead or let it cross over itself, to
get the best reception and transmission from your radio. I have now
tried this and found significant increases for both. Run your lead
around the seat, around the roof, or whatever you have to do to
prevent crossover of the lead, next to itself. You will find much
improvement in your reception.
No validity to this idea at all. This narration suggests
that there are things going on OUTSIDE the coaxial feedline
that can have an effect on things that go on INSIDE
the feedline. In fact, the very nature of an idealized
feedline (low SWR and artful construction) calls for
keeping all good things in and bad things out.
When I worked at Boeing there was an analog computer
associated with the terrain avoidance radar that had
perhaps a dozen coax cables of critical length running
between a couple of the black boxes. The lengths were
adjusted on installation to achieve the desired performance.
It took about three shifts to get this thing tuned up
and had a system MTBF on the order of 10 hours.
During a tune up procedure in the airplane, we could
count on going to the lab with two or three circuit
cards. But the point to be made here is after they
were all measured and verified for performance NOT
bundled, the last chore was to coil them up and
string tie them into a neat and secure installation.
No shifts in performance of the radar was experienced
or expected for having repositioned the coax cables.
We don't often see "too long" cables in a TC aircraft.
They are cut to ideal installed length on installation.
But the idea that system performance would suffer because
the feedlines are coiled or 'cross over themselves'
is bogus.
If the writer had some demonstrable variations in
performance due to feedline positioning, there was
something seriously wrong with the installation
and the feedline was acting more like a piece of
wire than a coax cable.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Shunt insulation |
At 02:22 AM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
G'day Stu,
No it won't be affected by temperature enough to be a problem. A
shunt is a low value resistor in series with the circuit you want to
measure the current in. An ammeter is a sensitive volt meter that
measure the voltage being dropped across the shunt (resistor).
The calibration of the shunt will the depend on the Full scale
deflection current required by the Ammeter.
Needless to say just use the shunt supplied with the engine monitor
package and you will be ok.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV10 #41016
I will expand on John's righteous answer to add that GOOD shunts
are made of a strange metal called manganin. This is an alloy of
multiple metals designed to give the shunt a zero, or near-zero
coefficient of resistance versus temperature. Obviously, a shunt
carries current through a resistance which heats it up. Further,
shunts may be situated in environmental extremes of temperature.
It's desirable to have a very low temperature coefficient
for resistance so that the instrument reads correctly under all
operating extremes.
Hence, any additional heating that might be attributed to
the added insulation is of no consequence.
I will add also that concerns for loose pieces of metal
getting into things electric are probably not well founded.
TC aircraft have had many, many examples of exposed, high
current conductors go out the production line door. The
design goals are better served by making sure things are
well bolted down as opposed to insulating the bus bars
(etc) from the effects things flying around unrestrained.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Developing the initial software for the wig-wag |
project
At 05:23 PM 4/28/2012, you wrote:
>
>Here is the document I put together describing the work involved with
>the development of the initial software for the wig-wag controller. It
>should give those who are interested some idea of what is involved
>in the process. Hopefully others will jump into the pool and get
>involved with putting together software for this project and future
>follow-on projects. Take a look and, as always, I welcome any and
>all feedback...
>
>Greg McHugh
>
Greg,
Thank you for this illuminating narrative of the
software development process. I've appended it to
the project data bundle and posted to
http://tinyurl.com/6w9vndk
as revision P3. This is exciting stuff gentlemen.
If this gets the juices flowing for any of you byte-
herders out there, you are encouraged to participate
at what ever level is appropriate to your needs
and desires.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | Shunt insulation |
Thanks Bob & John.
Excellent ... good news, thank you.
I think my 20 mintues to mitigate the low risk to next to zero was worth
it. I have seen some incredible collections of spare washers, swarf and
lockwire offcuts etc in the bellies of TC aircraft ... probably a good
thing they're not rolled inverted as often as my Rocket will be :)
Kind regards, Stu
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 10:34 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Shunt insulation
At 02:22 AM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
G=EF=BDday Stu,
No it won=EF=BDt be affected by temperature enough to be a problem. A
shunt is a low value resistor in series with the circuit you want to
measure the current in. An ammeter is a sensitive volt meter that
measure the voltage being dropped across the shunt (resistor).
The calibration of the shunt will the depend on the Full scale
deflection current required by the Ammeter.
Needless to say just use the shunt supplied with the engine monitor
package and you will be ok.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV10 #41016
I will expand on John's righteous answer to add that GOOD shunts
are made of a strange metal called manganin. This is an alloy of
multiple metals designed to give the shunt a zero, or near-zero
coefficient of resistance versus temperature. Obviously, a shunt
carries current through a resistance which heats it up. Further,
shunts may be situated in environmental extremes of temperature.
It's desirable to have a very low temperature coefficient
for resistance so that the instrument reads correctly under all
operating extremes.
Hence, any additional heating that might be attributed to
the added insulation is of no consequence.
I will add also that concerns for loose pieces of metal
getting into things electric are probably not well founded.
TC aircraft have had many, many examples of exposed, high
current conductors go out the production line door. The
design goals are better served by making sure things are
well bolted down as opposed to insulating the bus bars
(etc) from the effects things flying around unrestrained.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt insulation |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
I shorted mine the other day while trying to install a prop oil line. Note t
o self, don't forget to disconnect the negative battery lead when waving lon
g metal bits around under the cowl.
On Apr 29, 2012, at 8:34, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectr
ic.com> wrote:
> At 02:22 AM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
> G=EF=BDday Stu,
>
> No it won=EF=BDt be affected by temperature enough to be a problem. A s
hunt is a low value resistor in series with the circuit you want to measure t
he current in. An ammeter is a sensitive volt meter that measure the voltage
being dropped across the shunt (resistor).
>
> The calibration of the shunt will the depend on the Full scale deflection c
urrent required by the Ammeter.
> Needless to say just use the shunt supplied with the engine monitor packag
e and you will be ok.
>
> Cheers
>
> John MacCallum
> VH-DUU
> RV10 #41016
>
> I will expand on John's righteous answer to add that GOOD shunts
> are made of a strange metal called manganin. This is an alloy of
> multiple metals designed to give the shunt a zero, or near-zero
> coefficient of resistance versus temperature. Obviously, a shunt
> carries current through a resistance which heats it up. Further,
> shunts may be situated in environmental extremes of temperature.
> It's desirable to have a very low temperature coefficient
> for resistance so that the instrument reads correctly under all
> operating extremes.
> Hence, any additional heating that might be attributed to
> the added insulation is of no consequence.
> I will add also that concerns for loose pieces of metal
> getting into things electric are probably not well founded.
> TC aircraft have had many, many examples of exposed, high
> current conductors go out the production line door. The
> design goals are better served by making sure things are
> well bolted down as opposed to insulating the bus bars
> (etc) from the effects things flying around unrestrained.
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
Thanks for your input
Paul
========
At 06:22 AM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
>At 06:39 AM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
>Is there physics to the comment below?
>
>I happened to pick up the comment on a jeep forum where the guys buy
>an antenna with a stock length of coax and don't have the ability to
>change the length.
>
>Apperciate any comments. Thanks, Paul
>
>DO NOT coil your antenna coax lead or let it cross over itself, to
>get the best reception and transmission from your radio. I have now
>tried this and found significant increases for both. Run your lead
>around the seat, around the roof, or whatever you have to do to
>prevent crossover of the lead, next to itself. You will find much
>improvement in your reception.
>
>No validity to this idea at all. This narration suggests
>that there are things going on OUTSIDE the coaxial feedline
>that can have an effect on things that go on INSIDE
>the feedline. In fact, the very nature of an idealized
>feedline (low SWR and artful construction) calls for
>keeping all good things in and bad things out.
>When I worked at Boeing there was an analog computer
>associated with the terrain avoidance radar that had
>perhaps a dozen coax cables of critical length running
>between a couple of the black boxes. The lengths were
>adjusted on installation to achieve the desired performance.
>It took about three shifts to get this thing tuned up
>and had a system MTBF on the order of 10 hours.
>During a tune up procedure in the airplane, we could
>count on going to the lab with two or three circuit
>cards. But the point to be made here is after they
>were all measured and verified for performance NOT
>bundled, the last chore was to coil them up and
>string tie them into a neat and secure installation.
>No shifts in performance of the radar was experienced
>or expected for having repositioned the coax cables.
>We don't often see "too long" cables in a TC aircraft.
>They are cut to ideal installed length on installation.
>But the idea that system performance would suffer because
>the feedlines are coiled or 'cross over themselves'
>is bogus.
>If the writer had some demonstrable variations in
>performance due to feedline positioning, there was
>something seriously wrong with the installation
>and the feedline was acting more like a piece of
>wire than a coax cable.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt insulation |
At 09:40 AM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
>I shorted mine the other day while trying to install a prop oil
>line. Note to self, don't forget to disconnect the negative battery
>lead when waving long metal bits around under the cowl.
How did you have a 'hot' shunt with the battery
contactor OFF?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt insulation |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
Thanks for asking Bob, your question inspired me to pull out z13/8
again to make sure I hadn't hooked it up wrong! If I understand
correctly though, it looks like the shunt for the SD8 goes from the
always-hot side of the battery contactor via a 20AWG fuse link. Is
that not correct? It's been a little while since I hooked all of
those wires up.
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
>
>
>
> At 09:40 AM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
>>
>> I shorted mine the other day while trying to install a prop oil line. Note
>> to self, don't forget to disconnect the negative battery lead when waving
>> long metal bits around under the cowl.
>
>
> How did you have a 'hot' shunt with the battery
> contactor OFF?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | Secrets Techniques |
Well, that works like a charm!... I've spent so many years trying not to
melt the insulation that I was not taking full advantage of the properties
of Tefzel. I've encountered solder sleeves in the past, but never appreciate
their purpose.
onward and upward (someday), -john-
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Secrets Techniques
At 11:12 PM 4/19/2012, you wrote:
Sixty years I've been doing this! Built all my own ham radio gear as a
teenager in the 50's, got a EE degree from a prestigious university, spent
my adult life as a development engineer designing medical and laboratory
instruments. You'd think I could strip a multiconductor shield Tefzel
insulated cable in my sleep, but it's a bit@h! I make a mess of the shield
when I try to remove the Tefzel. What is the secret trick to it!
The secret is go ahead and 'trash' the shield.
I have a bunch of 22AWG, 3-conductor shielded
that a common Stripmaster more-or-less strips
the outer jacket and probably 80% of the shield
strands. Then I use a solder-sleeve
to put a neat pigtail on the damaged shielding.
There are normally no currents flowing in the
shield. If your grounding pig-tail gets good
electrical connection with only one of of the
strands, you're good to go. More than likely
you can get good connection with 10% or more
of the shield stranding. The neat thing
is that the pigtail under heat shrink covers
the carnage.
I'll see if I can dig some of the stuff up
and do a comic-book series of pictures on the
process tomorrow.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt insulation |
At 01:17 PM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
Thanks for asking Bob, your question inspired me to pull out z13/8
again to make sure I hadn't hooked it up wrong! If I understand
correctly though, it looks like the shunt for the SD8 goes from the
always-hot side of the battery contactor via a 20AWG fuse link. Is
that not correct? It's been a little while since I hooked all of
those wires up.
Oh . . . THAT shunt. Yes, Z-13/8Q does show that
sequence of connection which was shuffled around
in Revision R when we deleted the "self excitation"
feature for the SD-8 and replaced the 20AWG fusible
link with a 30A fuse thusly:
Emacs!
But I understand how it came to be on your airplane and it's
no really big deal. I wouldn't change it now. But it did
strike me strangely and I had to ask. I should probably
add a note to Z-13/8 to elaborate on the 30A in-line fuse.
The picture I had in my head at the time suggested that
leads supplied on the COTS fuse-holder would place the SD-8
control relay close to the battery contactor. The note would
speak to this design goal and suggest that the leads not be
spliced. In fact, I did mark the upstream lead as being in
the 6-inch-or-less category.
I've just discovered an rather slick, in-line holder for
the plastic fuses. It's offered by marine electrical suppliers
(among others). It's not only waterproof by virtue of the
now ubiquitous bellows gasket but the snap-on cover features
a mounting tab. Pretty cool.
Emacs!
Is the system still working since the "shorting" event? It
must have been a really short duration event not to take out
the fuse. In any case, I'd replace the fuse. "Teasing"
events on fuses can be cumulative and your present fuse might
have been re-calibrated downward.
If the fuse IS still intact, I'd like to have it. I'm
working an accident case where a sequence of fuse-teasing
events accumulated over some 15-20 hours of flight before
the fuse gave up. It would be interesting to look at your
fuse under a microscope to see if it shows signs of teasing.
If the fuse is not intact, well . . . that's what fuses
do when they are doing what they do best.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt insulation |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
In my installation I have a 20AWG fuse link instead of an inline fuse. I
haven't had any reason to turn the master on recently so I haven't
reconnected the battery to see if things are still working. The battery is
a mostly dead PC680 that I've used just for testing purposes, so that might
have also limited the amount of current available. I got the usual pop and
a little spark or two but the fuse link didn't seem to smoke. It's in a
bit of that fiberglass insulating stuff so perhaps I should pull that back
and make sure it's all still good. Should I replace it with a fuse? That
nifty inline holder looks a lot like a weatherpack connector.
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 01:17 PM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
> >
>
> Thanks for asking Bob, your question inspired me to pull out z13/8
> again to make sure I hadn't hooked it up wrong! If I understand
> correctly though, it looks like the shunt for the SD8 goes from the
> always-hot side of the battery contactor via a 20AWG fuse link. Is
> that not correct? It's been a little while since I hooked all of
> those wires up.
>
> Oh . . . THAT shunt. Yes, Z-13/8Q does show that sequence of connection
> which was shuffled around in Revision R when we deleted the "self
> excitation" feature for the SD-8 and replaced the 20AWG fusible link with
> a 30A fuse thusly:
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> But I understand how it came to be on your airplane and it's no really
> big deal. I wouldn't change it now. But it did strike me strangely and I
> had to ask. I should probably add a note to Z-13/8 to elaborate on the
> 30A in-line fuse. The picture I had in my head at the time suggested that leads
> supplied on the COTS fuse-holder would place the SD-8 control relay close
> to the battery contactor. The note would speak to this design goal and
> suggest that the leads not be spliced. In fact, I did mark the upstream
> lead as being in the 6-inch-or-less category.
> I've just discovered an rather slick, in-line holder for the plastic
> fuses. It's offered by marine electrical suppliers (among others). It's
> not only waterproof by virtue of the now ubiquitous bellows gasket but
> the snap-on cover features a mounting tab. Pretty cool.
>
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> Is the system still working since the "shorting" event? It must have
> been a really short duration event not to take out the fuse. In any case,
> I'd replace the fuse. "Teasing" events on fuses can be cumulative and
> your present fuse might have been re-calibrated downward.
>
> If the fuse IS still intact, I'd like to have it. I'm working an accident
> case where a sequence of fuse-teasing events accumulated over some 15-20
> hours of flight before the fuse gave up. It would be interesting to look
> at your fuse under a microscope to see if it shows signs of teasing. If
> the fuse is not intact, well . . . that's what fuses do when they are
> doing what they do best.**
>
> **
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | A peek into the pages of aviation history |
A cousin of mine who retired from Boeing Seattle's
spacecraft programs is also a pilot. He sent me this
fascinating link today. Don't start until you have about
an hour to spend on it. It's a real journey of the
mind.
http://tinyurl.com/7ct4umu
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt insulation |
At 07:55 PM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
In my installation I have a 20AWG fuse link instead of an inline
fuse. I haven't had any reason to turn the master on recently so I
haven't reconnected the battery to see if things are still working.
Okay, fusible links are VERY robust fuses. They'll take a
pretty heavy hit without breathing hard.
The battery is a mostly dead PC680 that I've used just for testing
purposes, so that might have also limited the amount of current
available. I got the usual pop and a little spark or two but the
fuse link didn't seem to smoke. It's in a bit of that fiberglass
insulating stuff so perhaps I should pull that back and make sure
it's all still good. Should I replace it with a fuse? That nifty
inline holder looks a lot like a weatherpack connector.
You got it. Yeah, if it were my airplane, I'd go
for the fuse. Simple, fast, inexpensive and continuing
to evolve . . . sort of like the elegant hammer . . .
I'll do some poking around to see if I can find a bulk
source for those fuse-holders. Either B&C or AeroElectric
should stock that one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ignition Interference |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
My test pilot flew my plane for the first time today. Yeah! But now I have to fix
all the problems that we've ignored. First on the list is the RFI issue. I
have a Jabiru 3300 in my Sonex. Wired it more or less like Bob's diagrams, with
a filter capacitor. Ran all my power in on the right side and the two mag wires
in on the left. Mag wires are 1-conductor shielded, with the braid pulled
out the last 2 or 3 inches on either end. Seems like it's the left mag, cuz when
it's turned off, the noise disappears. Suggestions?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372121#372121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John MacCallum" <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com> |
Hi Paul,
Coaxial cable can be run next to metal objects and coiled. In fact under
some circumstances coiling it is beneficial, such as if you want to make
a
Transmission line choke Balun, strain relief or water isolation.
You can=92t do that with a Balanced Line Feeder such as the old 300 ohm
TV
ribbon, which may be where the idea of not crossing over
Itself came from.
Sometimes you can get into trouble with odd =BC wave multiples of the
frequency you are working at causing the impedance of the Antenna
and Transmission line together to be something other than it should be.
This
results in a high SWR but this requires a reasonably big miss match
of the Antenna=92s fed point impedance and the Transmission Lines
Characteristic Impedance (50 ohms).
So get yourself an SWR meter, check the SWR and if it=92s less than 2.5
to 1
you will be ok.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV10 #41016
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
wilson
Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 9:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Coax
Is there physics to the comment below?
I happened to pick up the comment on a jeep forum where the guys buy an
antenna with a stock length of coax and don't have the ability to change
the
length.
Apperciate any comments. Thanks, Paul
DO NOT coil your antenna coax lead or let it cross over itself, to get
the
best reception and transmission from your radio. I have now tried this
and
found significant increases for both. Run your lead around the seat,
around
the roof, or whatever you have to do to prevent crossover of the lead,
next
to itself. You will find much improvement in your reception.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Secrets Techniques |
At 06:30 PM 4/29/2012, you wrote:
>Well, that works like a charm!... I've spent so many years trying
>not to melt the insulation that I was not taking full advantage of
>the properties of Tefzel. I've encountered solder sleeves in the
>past, but never appreciate their purpose.
Yeah, they're kinda cool. I'm seeing some po' boy's solder
sleeves showing up from suppliers on the net at attractive
prices. I'm going to acquire some as see how well they
work.
I'm a bit surprised to find them offered to the commercial
installation crowd. PVC or even the higher temperature PVC
insulations are king. Not sure you can put a legacy RayChem
solder sleeve on this wire. But these new kids on the block
just might feature lower temperature solders (yes my children,
there ARE other alloys that will do that melty-glue-thing) along
with some lower temperature shrink and sealants. We'll have
to see.
In any case, I'm pleased that your dragons are at least
"behind bars" if not completely dispatched . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "stearman456" <warbirds(at)shaw.ca> |
If you have two mags and a filter on each one, the quickest thing to try is swapping
the filters. I had a dud filter once a couple of years ago straight out
of the box.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372136#372136
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
There are no filters on either mag. The filter capacitor is on the alternator.
You think putting a filter capacitor on the offending mag wire might work?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372140#372140
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "stearman456" <warbirds(at)shaw.ca> |
I put a filter on each of mine (Continental C90 with Bendix mags) and that cleared
up my noise. I had one dud filter at first but after replacing it she's nice
and quiet now.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372142#372142
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
Hi John,
Interesting comments. I will pass them along. I
wondered where the no ant coil vs coil came from.
For my various rigs I use SWRs, cheapy one for CB
and another pricy one for the VHF setups. My SWRs
are great due to my significant effort. I now
have one of Bobs low ohm devices and will work
thru all my grounds and feeds to see what I find.
Should be fun and informative.
I know my discussion was for off road rigs, but I
hope the airplane guys dont mind. Seems applicable to any radio install.
Thanks, Paul
At 02:39 AM 4/30/2012, John MacCallum wrote:
>Hi Paul,
>Coaxial cable can be run next to metal objects
>and coiled. In fact under some circumstances
>coiling it is beneficial, such as if you want to make a
>Transmission line choke Balun, strain relief or water isolation.
>You can=92t do that with a Balanced Line Feeder
>such as the old 300 ohm TV ribbon, which may be
>where the idea of not crossing over
>Itself came from.
>
>Sometimes you can get into trouble with odd =BC
>wave multiples of the frequency you are working
>at causing the impedance of the Antenna
>and Transmission line together to be something
>other than it should be. This results in a high
>SWR but this requires a reasonably big miss match
>of the Antenna=92s fed point impedance and the
>Transmission Lines Characteristic Impedance (50 ohms).
>
>So get yourself an SWR meter, check the SWR and
>if it=92s less than 2.5 to 1 you will be ok.
>
>Cheers
>
>John MacCallum
>VH-DUU
>RV10 #41016
>
>
>From:
>owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
wilson
>Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 9:39 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Coax
>
>Is there physics to the comment below?
>I happened to pick up the comment on a jeep
>forum where the guys buy an antenna with a stock
>length of coax and don't have the ability to change the length.
>Apperciate any comments. Thanks, Paul
>
>DO NOT coil your antenna coax lead or let it
>cross over itself, to get the best reception and
>transmission from your radio. I have now tried
>this and found significant increases for both.
>Run your lead around the seat, around the roof,
>or whatever you have to do to prevent crossover
>of the lead, next to itself. You will find much improvement in your
reception.
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Yes, thanks for pointing this out. Sounds like I could disconnect the P lead of
the left mag and see if it still makes noise. If it does, then Bob says it's
getting out through the P lead wiring. If that's the case, sounds like replacing
the single conductor wire P lead and ground shield would work. That's not a
huge undertaking, but maybe it could be avoided if I slapped one of my ferrite
beads on the switch end of the offending P lead and ground?
If the noise doesn't go away, then the 'plug harnesses are suspect'
Plug harnesses may be electrically tested (continuity between end of center conductor
and between ends of shield braid). Unhook individual plug wires and do
a continuity check between the spark plug connector shell (attaches to shield)
and engine crankcase.
I don't quite understand what's being asked for, since I don't have a spark plug
wire handy and haven't really looked to see how the wires are made. Sounds like
it's a single conductor shielded wire. Is there to be no continuity between
the inner conductor and the shell?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372149#372149
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt insulation |
| From: | "gregmchugh" <gregmchugh(at)aol.com> |
Bob,
They sure look like Weather Pack fuse holders maybe from
http://www.whiteproducts.com/
and the Blue Sea version is on Amazon for $9
http://tinyurl.com/7tzcmc2
Greg
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372152#372152
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt insulation |
At 11:33 AM 4/30/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>They sure look like Weather Pack fuse holders maybe from
>
>http://www.whiteproducts.com/
>
>and the Blue Sea version is on Amazon for $9
>
>http://tinyurl.com/7tzcmc2
Yes. I've located a bulk distributor and
will set up and purchasing account with
them as soon as I can get to it. Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Karl Gashler <gashf16(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Vertical Power VP-X Pro for RV-8 Architecture Question |
Hello everyone, long time listener, first time call :)
I am getting ready to design the electrical system for my RV-8. I will have a full-up
IFR Dynon EFIS system using the Vertical Power VP-X Pro with all other
typical full-electric airplane items such as autopilot, trim, LED nav/strobe/landing/taxi
lights, backup alternator (SD-8), etc. I bought the AeroElectric CD-ROM
and have been unable to find any electrical system architecture ideas, especially
anything that would apply to a VP-X Pro system. If you know where to
find a "boilerplate" system template that I could use as a starting point, or
any other advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much!
Karl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro for RV-8 Architecture Question |
Hi Karl,
I have an RV 8, VPX-Pro. Start with the literature on the VP website.
Since you are all electrical, you definitely need back up power. You can use
the Z-13 architecture and substitute the VP-X for main bus. You can also
use Z-14, substituting the VP-X for the main bus and setting up a completely
separate secondary bus as back up or alternate power. Marc has pretty
clear instructions about how to set up the secondary alternator through the
VP-X. The only concern there is single point of failure (the VP-X).
The key concept from the Aeroelectric CD is understanding failure modes and
having a system that is failure tolerant. Failures always happen. You
just want to make sure that they don't interfere with the safe termination
of your flight. I have read the Aeroelectric manual, front to back, several
times. There is a huge amount of really useful information there about
how things work and how to think about how to set up your electrical system.
Once you have a clear understanding of the mission, the failure modes and
how your equipment functions, then you can select an architecture that
suits you.
Hope this helps.
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:23:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
gashf16(at)yahoo.com writes:
Hello everyone, long time listener, first time call :)
I am getting ready to design the electrical system for my RV-8. I will
have a full-up IFR Dynon EFIS system using the Vertical Power VP-X Pro with
all other typical full-electric airplane items such as autopilot, trim, LED
nav/strobe/landing/taxi lights, backup alternator (SD-8), etc. I bought the
AeroElectric CD-ROM and have been unable to find any electrical system
architecture ideas, especially anything that would apply to a VP-X Pro system.
If you know where to find a "boilerplate" system template that I could use
as a starting point, or any other advice, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks very much!
Karl
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro for RV-8 Architecture |
Question
Go to the VP website and click on the button that says "Products - VP-X
Planner" http://planner.verticalpower.com/
That will take you to an interactive planner that will develop your
schematic and load analysis. It provides options for backup systems and
has a "Review" function that allows you to have Marc look over your plan
for problems. You can save your plan on line and modify it and print out
new wiring diagrams and schematics any time you want. It really is all
you need, and the manual explains everything you need. I have finished
my installation and have no hesitation to recommend it. It provides all
the flexibility I needed and backups that make me confident I could
easily deal with a failure of the "box" at any point in a flight.
Definitely not a "single point of failure."
John Grosse
Glasair IIS-RG 69BZ
Karl Gashler wrote:
> Hello everyone, long time listener, first time call :)
>
> I am getting ready to design the electrical system for my RV-8. I will
> have a full-up IFR Dynon EFIS system using the Vertical Power VP-X Pro
> with all other typical full-electric airplane items such as autopilot,
> trim, LED nav/strobe/landing/taxi lights, backup alternator (SD-8),
> etc. I bought the AeroElectric CD-ROM and have been unable to find any
> electrical system architecture ideas, especially anything that would
> apply to a VP-X Pro system. If you know where to find a "boilerplate"
> system template that I could use as a starting point, or any other
> advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much!
>
> Karl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Ignition noise problem updated
Problem
I hear that distinctive spark plug interference noise when I listen to the radio.
As expected, it varies with RPM. When I turn off the left magneto, 95% of the
noise goes away, leaving a tolerable feint interference noise from the right
magneto system. I disconnected the P-lead from it's fast on tab of the left
(noisy) magneto giving me a hot mag. This had no effect on the noise. After reconnecting
the left P lead, I disconnected the right P lead the same way, which
also had no effect. This tells me the P leads aren't causing the noise.
Distrubutor, Spark Plugs, and Spark Plug Wires
I considered connecting the high intensity wire from the left mag to the right
distributor, but it's an inch or so short. I run into the same problems with reach
when thinking about switching the 6 plug wires from the left distributor
with the 6 wires from the right. But this may yet be possible. It's that I sorta
cringe at having to pull all the wires from behind the tight space in back
of the engine. I'll take another look when I get back to the plane. I'm at the
airport at a wifi hot spot a half mile away from my hangar.
I could also check the resistance of the spark plug wires. These came with the
engine when I bought it at 50 hours. They are Champion 8.0mm(?) that I believe
are shielded. It looks like there are vast differences in resistance depending
on what type of wires I have. I'm not aware of the normal range for my wires,
but will check them anyway. The longer wires should at least have more resistance
than the shorter ones.
If I can get to the shields of my spark plug wires, I'll test them for continuity
with the inner conductor. I didn't think the shield is supposed to be connected
to the condutor. A normal shielded wire doesn't have the shield carrying
any current. It is grounded at one end and open at the other. But I don't see
how that can be arranged with a spark plug wire. Where is the ground connection
for this? In the spark plug? In the distributor cap?
I also talked with an A&P next door about my problem. He said my NGK automotive
spark plugs aren't high resistive, which means they're noisy. Suggested checking
the resistance and/or replacing with aviation spark plugs. Might this possibly
be a solution to my problem?
Antenna System
I've read the antenna system could be at fault if the noise increases when the
volume control is increased. I'm not sure if I understand that. Isn't the volume
control just effecting the gain of all signals, ignition noise or otherwise?
The radio has a shielded antenna cable from the belly mount to the back of the
radio. If it fits, I might be able to put a ferrite bead over the end of the antenna
cable. Or over the wires going from the radio to the headset jack on the
panel.
Any help would be appreciated!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372231#372231
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
On 05/01/2012 03:50 PM, messydeer wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "messydeer"
>
> Ignition noise problem updated
>
> Problem
>
> I hear that distinctive spark plug interference noise when I listen to the radio.
As expected, it varies with RPM. When I turn off the left magneto, 95% of
the noise goes away, leaving a tolerable feint interference noise from the right
magneto system. I disconnected the P-lead from it's fast on tab of the left
(noisy) magneto giving me a hot mag. This had no effect on the noise. After
reconnecting the left P lead, I disconnected the right P lead the same way, which
also had no effect. This tells me the P leads aren't causing the noise.
>
> Distrubutor, Spark Plugs, and Spark Plug Wires
>
> I considered connecting the high intensity wire from the left mag to the right
distributor, but it's an inch or so short. I run into the same problems with
reach when thinking about switching the 6 plug wires from the left distributor
with the 6 wires from the right. But this may yet be possible. It's that I sorta
cringe at having to pull all the wires from behind the tight space in back
of the engine. I'll take another look when I get back to the plane. I'm at the
airport at a wifi hot spot a half mile away from my hangar.
>
> I could also check the resistance of the spark plug wires. These came with the
engine when I bought it at 50 hours. They are Champion 8.0mm(?) that I believe
are shielded. It looks like there are vast differences in resistance depending
on what type of wires I have. I'm not aware of the normal range for my wires,
but will check them anyway. The longer wires should at least have more resistance
than the shorter ones.
>
> If I can get to the shields of my spark plug wires, I'll test them for continuity
with the inner conductor. I didn't think the shield is supposed to be connected
to the condutor. A normal shielded wire doesn't have the shield carrying
any current. It is grounded at one end and open at the other. But I don't see
how that can be arranged with a spark plug wire. Where is the ground connection
for this? In the spark plug? In the distributor cap?
>
> I also talked with an A&P next door about my problem. He said my NGK automotive
spark plugs aren't high resistive, which means they're noisy. Suggested checking
the resistance and/or replacing with aviation spark plugs. Might this possibly
be a solution to my problem?
>
> Antenna System
>
> I've read the antenna system could be at fault if the noise increases when the
volume control is increased. I'm not sure if I understand that. Isn't the volume
control just effecting the gain of all signals, ignition noise or otherwise?
>
> The radio has a shielded antenna cable from the belly mount to the back of the
radio. If it fits, I might be able to put a ferrite bead over the end of the
antenna cable. Or over the wires going from the radio to the headset jack on
the panel.
>
> Any help would be appreciated!
>
> --------
> Dan
>
Which motor are you using (I forgot, & it didn't make it into this post)?
You say 'magnetos', but you also say 'automotive spark plugs'. Are these
aircraft mags (just about all a/c mags except very old ones are made to
use shielded wires and shielded plugs)? If so, & you're running auto
plugs without some type of elaborate secondary shield around them, then
shielding on the wires, if it exists, probably isn't doing much.
Regular automotive wires don't normally have shields. You can buy
resistor auto plugs. You can also buy resistor wires for auto plugs
(normally, you'd use one or the other, but not both on the same system).
If you have non-resistor plugs, I'd check on whether you have resistor
type wires to go with them.
If you're running a/c mags (or an old style automotive distributor),
there's a capacitor (most call it a condenser) inside the mag next to
the points to suppress arcing of the contacts in the points. If the
condenser is bad, the points usually follow pretty quickly.
I think that the volume control issue is that if the noise is getting
into the input of the radio/audio system, then varying the volume will
vary the noise level along with the rest of your audio. If it's coming
in on the power supply, it might remain at the same level regardless of
volume control settings.
If you're getting minimal noise from one ignition system and lots of
noise from another, identical system, then that's a strong indicator
that the problem is related to the noise producer (ignition system), and
not to a shield/filter problem on the radio/audio system.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, Charlie.
The mags are from Jabiru, but I'm not sure where they get them. I'l find out more
about the plug wires and exact type of NGK plugs these are.
Does the higher resistance of the resistive plugs make them produce less RFI? They
don't have shields, do they? And as for the plug wires, are they shielded,
resistive, or both?
I also have found some more info on Jabiru ignition noise suppression. I'll post
my understanding of it when I'm done later.
Thanks for sharing your insight.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372246#372246
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Sounds like most of the Jabiru ignition noise comes from the HT lead between the
coil and distrubutor. Folks have replaced that with a shielded one and also
put a couple ferrite bead clamps on each of them. I'll try just the beads for
now, I think.
I still don't know the specific type of plug wires, but found that my plugs are
non-resistive. I could upgrade to resistive, but will try just the beads first,
since we want to go up tomorrow. I have some spare 'bushing' type beads that
might slip over the cap. Otherwise I might get some from Radio Shack, I suppose
for now.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372251#372251
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
G'day Bob,
Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of brass for
the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it, but are there any
known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless steel - I'd like to turn a
custom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the engine ground.
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 06:58 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I am trying to put together a test rig to make sure my starting
>vibrator is properly set up after I replace the points and capacitor
>in both units (twin).
>
>My problem is finding something to indicate amps down in the 1 to 3
>amp range. I'm supposed to set the point preload tension such that
>the unit draws 2 amps at some set voltage.
>
>Everything I've looked at has way to big of a range to be useful..
>any ideas would be appreciated.
I feel your pain . . . and there's a hidden 'rat'
in this woodpile. The current you're attempting to
measure is not a steady, DC current level. It's
'chopped' up in little pieces by the antics of
the vibrator.
Digital ammeters are sampling devices that can
be very confused by a series of measurements that
do not agree closely with each other. What you're
looking for is an 'integrating' or 'averaging'
instrument that gives you some smoothed out value
over time.
Back in the days when shower-of-sparks was the
best we knew how to do, meters fully capable of
setting the system up were also the best we knew
how to do. Typical instruments were the Simpson
260, Tripplet 630 and similar ANALOG multimeters.
The mechanical inertia of the meter needle prevents
it from responding to the intermittent nature of
the current under study and readings were nicely
averaged.
So what you're looking for is an analog multimeter
with a current full scale reading as close as
practical to the currents you expect to measure.
A 5A scale would be nice but 10A or 12A is probably
going to be the best you can do in a multimeter.
The ideal instrument would be something like this
which you can get off eBay . . . if you have time
to wait.
1
You can get it here for under $10 delivered to your door
but it will take a couple weeks.
http://tinyurl.com/7d3rd25
If you can't find something locally that suited to your
task, I could provide you with one of these little fellers
shunted for say 3A full scale. No calibrated scale plate
but well suited to the task at hand.
[]
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
At 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>G'day Bob,
>
>Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of
>brass for the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it,
>but are there any known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless
>steel - I'd like to turn a custom large-flanged firewall
>passthrough for the engine ground.
>
Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's
any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors
but the way we use it (large cross-sections and/or
short lengths) the electrical resistance doesn't
raise concerns. I don't know any specifics about its
reactivity with other metals but I think anything
against stainless is pretty low risk . . .
Perhaps others on the List have experience foundations
from which to advise you further . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
| From: | rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us |
Hi Stu
I compiled a number of links to galvanic and conductivity tables.:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=87240
Click on "Download document", it's a word document with a
number of links.
It kinda amazed me how poor a conductor brass and bronze is, but
aluminium is very good and for all practical purposes as good as
gold.
Stainless is a terrible conductor. Steel only slightly better. Guess
what, lead and tin are very poor conductors! Did you ever see high
amperage solder joints fail after time? It's because of the heating
and cooling of the joint and fatigue failure of the solder BTW you
can often rectify this from happening again by leaving a tail on the
component, taking a solid strand of copper wire and wrapping the tail
(and solder) and then soldering the both ends of this wire onto the board
on the lands or pad to give triple the path for electrons to flow.
When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and
stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and
stainless it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my
30,000,000 BTU Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the
pilot light inside stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was
aluminium? Anyway it plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I
lost the pilot light. After the second time I switched over to brass (of
vise versa, you will be able to tell from the chart) I never had a
problem again.
Good Luck.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
With copper and aluminum, it's bound to be extremely low resistance, but th
e aluminum will corrode on the surface to form alumina, which may interfere
with good connections. -Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelio
n Design to get it copper plated? -Or better yet, why not go with copper
bar? -It's relatively cheap and known good material. -Beats ripping out
something that didn't work that well.=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.b
ob(at)aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesd
ay, May 2, 2012 10:18 AM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze
- conductivity=0A =0A=0AAt 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:=0A=0AG'day Bob,=0A
>-=0A>Do you reckon aluminum bronze is=0Asuitable to be used in place of
brass for the main firewall ground=0A?- It has plenty of copper in it, bu
t are there any known nasties=0Awhen it's used adjoining stainless steel -
- I'd like to turn a=0Acustom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the
engine ground.=0A>-=0A-- Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's
=0A-- any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors=0A-- but th
e way we use it (large cross-sections and/or=0A-- short lengths) the el
ectrical resistance doesn't=0A-- raise concerns. I don't know any speci
fics about its=0A-- reactivity with other metals but I think anything
=0A-- against stainless is pretty low risk . . . =0A=0A-- Perhaps o
thers on the List have experience foundations=0A-- from which to advise
========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hour meter ground |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA.
The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach
2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I
use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground.
Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a
shielded wire for the power connection?
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hour meter ground |
At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered
>LSA. The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a
>Westach 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage
>regulator. Can I use the instrument panel ground bus or should I
>give it its own ground. Should I put a diode on the instrument panel
>ground? Should I use a shielded wire for the power connection?
If you run it directly off the two AC wires from
the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding
necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe
an AC connection?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hour meter ground |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
Rick
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com**>
>
>
> At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>
>> I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA.
>> The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach
>> 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I
>> use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground.
>> Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a
>> shielded wire for the power connection?
>>
>
> If you run it directly off the two AC wires from
> the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding
> necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe
> an AC connection?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
"When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and
stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and stainless
it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000 BTU
Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light inside
stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium? Anyway it
plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot light.
After the second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you will be
able to tell from the chart) I never had a problem again."
That's pretty funny, Ron! :>) Clear, but funny!
B2
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
Hi Stu
I compiled a number of links to galvanic and conductivity tables.:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=87240
Click on "Download document", it's a word document with a number of links.
It kinda amazed me how poor a conductor brass and bronze is, but aluminium
is very good and for all practical purposes as good as gold.
Stainless is a terrible conductor. Steel only slightly better. Guess what,
lead and tin are very poor conductors! Did you ever see high amperage solder
joints fail after time? It's because of the heating and cooling of the joint
and fatigue failure of the solder BTW you can often rectify this from
happening again by leaving a tail on the component, taking a solid strand of
copper wire and wrapping the tail (and solder) and then soldering the both
ends of this wire onto the board on the lands or pad to give triple the path
for electrons to flow.
When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and stainless
or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and stainless it is not
a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000 BTU Balloon
Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light inside stainless,
or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium? Anyway it plugged up
with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot light. After the
second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you will be able to
tell from the chart) I never had a problem again.
Good Luck.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
| From: | rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us |
Hi B2
So you think having a power failure on your home built Hot Air balloon is
funny? If you are not prepared they just like aeroplanes can in fact make
a perfect 1 point landing! In other words balloons can and do in fact
induce "P" factor", biological in nature (especially if
you are over 50). No problem, I have that aspect pretty well
"covered" if you know what I mean after you look at a few
pictures ;-) :
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=28355
Ron Parigoris
Serious, I have a fully redundant pilot light that you can easily fly off
of and deployable in seconds, and at least 3 other ignition sources that
are a little more time consuming to use, but you can fly off of them as
well. My two failures were pretty much non events.
When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and
> stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium
and
> stainless
> it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000
BTU
> Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light
inside
> stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium?
Anyway it
> plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot
light.
> After the second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you
will be
> able to tell from the chart) I never had a problem again."
>
> That's pretty funny, Ron! :>) Clear, but funny!
>
> B2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Hour meter ground |
Not exactly. Read the Note on the drawing you provided. They say IF one leg
of the AC is grounded then pin 5 should go to the grounded leg. It doesn't
say that it should be grounded, only that if it is then pin 5 is the
grounded pin.
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Girard
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hour meter ground
Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
Rick
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA.
The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach 2C10-2
that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I use the
instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground. Should I put
a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a shielded wire for the
power connection?
If you run it directly off the two AC wires from
the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding
necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe
an AC connection?
Bob . . .
===================================
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===================================
http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hour meter ground |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks, Bob, I didn't catch the note.
Rick
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Bob McCallum
wrote:
> ** ** **
>
> *Not exactly. Read the Note on the drawing you provided. They say IF one
> leg of the AC is grounded then pin 5 should go to the grounded leg. It
> doesn=92t say that it should be grounded, only that if it is then pin 5 i
s
> the grounded pin.*
>
> * *
>
> *Bob McC*
>
> * *
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard
> Girard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:46 PM
> *To:* **aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com**
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Hour meter ground****
>
> ** **
>
> Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground
.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Rick****
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:****
>
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>****
>
>
> At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:****
>
> I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA.
> The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach
> 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I
> use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground.
> Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a
> shielded wire for the power connection?****
>
> ** **
>
> If you run it directly off the two AC wires from
> the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding
> necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe
> an AC connection?
>
>
> Bob . . . ****
>
>
> ==========
> -List" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ****
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> -- ****
>
> Zulu Delta****
>
> Mk IIIC****
>
> Thanks, Homer GBYM****
>
> ** **
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in ****Kansas City**** in order to
> be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hour meter ground |
At 02:46 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
>
>Rick
Hmmm . . . separate winding for the tachometer. Your
AC power to the rectifier/regulator cannot be grounded
on one side so that you can have full-wave rectification.
This tach coil is a very low power source. Do you have
an electronic tach reading this output too? In any case,
exactly where it grounds (if at all) is of little
consequence. These two systems are neither potential
antagonists nor victims. Does your tach wiring call out
grounding of one side of the signal wire?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
Thanks guys.
I've made lots of aluminum and stainless parts for underwater photography
and yes, the galvanic corrosion between them can be brutal immersed in an
electrolyte liek sea water. Ultra Tef-Gel from B&C Specialty helps, but I
suppose aluminum adjoining stainless is very common at the firewall and
doesn't seem to present too many problems without an electrolyte ... I could
be wrong, but that area stays pretty dry and I haven't witnessed much
corrosion at the firewall on aircraft. I'm less worried about the aluminium
bronze oxidising - a gas tight seal is obviously important because all the
usual metal options oxidise, but there must be tens of thousands of aircraft
with ground wires bonded direct to aluminium. I guess I'll just use
di-electric grease to keep the air out at the point where the stud meets
with the firewall, or perhaps make a phenolic bush to insulate it from the
stainless, then bond the stud to a substantial part of the aluminum
structure on the inside (such as an engine mounting bolt).
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
With copper and aluminum, it's bound to be extremely low resistance, but the
aluminum will corrode on the surface to form alumina, which may interfere
with good connections. Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelion
Design to get it copper plated? Or better yet, why not go with copper bar?
It's relatively cheap and known good material. Beats ripping out something
that didn't work that well.
Henador Titzoff
_____
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
At 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
G'day Bob,
Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of brass for
the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it, but are there any
known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless steel - I'd like to turn a
custom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the engine ground.
Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's
any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors
but the way we use it (large cross-sections and/or
short lengths) the electrical resistance doesn't
raise concerns. I don't know any specifics about its
reactivity with other metals but I think anything
against stainless is pretty low risk . . .
Perhaps others on the List have experience foundations
from which to advise you further . . .
Bob . . .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://w=======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
At 03:06 AM 5/3/2012, you wrote:
Thanks guys.
I've made lots of aluminum and stainless parts for underwater
photography and yes, the galvanic corrosion between them can be
brutal immersed in an electrolyte liek sea water. Ultra Tef-Gel from
B&C Specialty helps, but I suppose aluminum adjoining stainless is
very common at the firewall and doesn't seem to present too many
problems without an electrolyte ... I could be wrong, but that area
stays pretty dry and I haven't witnessed much corrosion at the
firewall on aircraft.
Agreed.
I'm less worried about the aluminium bronze oxidising - a gas tight
seal is obviously important because all the usual metal options
oxidise, but there must be tens of thousands of aircraft with ground
wires bonded direct to aluminium.
The legacy process involves putting a tin-plated copper
terminal down on a brightly buffed area of aluminum and
applying lots of pressure with the attach hardware. The
surface areas in gas-tight contact are, as you suggest,
not subject to environmental stresses. The outside of the
joint can get pretty cruddy with age without having the
connection go bad.
I guess I'll just use di-electric grease to keep the air out at
the point where the stud meets with the firewall, or perhaps make a
phenolic bush to insulate it from the stainless, then bond the stud
to a substantial part of the aluminum structure on the inside (such
as an engine mounting bolt).
I think clean, grease and lots of pressure are key. Additional
bonding is not useful.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hour meter ground |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com**>
> The tach has its own signal wire.
None of the Rotax wiring diagrams for the various regulators has an AC
> going to ground.
As pointed out, the note on the drawing for the hour meter says if one of
> the AC feed wires is grounded that wire is used for pin 5 on the meter.
> Otherwise the two AC wires feed the meter and it makes no difference which
> goes to the meter connections.
Rick
> At 02:46 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>
>> Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
> Hmmm . . . separate winding for the tachometer. Your
> AC power to the rectifier/regulator cannot be grounded
> on one side so that you can have full-wave rectification.
> This tach coil is a very low power source. Do you have
> an electronic tach reading this output too? In any case,
> exactly where it grounds (if at all) is of little
> consequence. These two systems are neither potential
> antagonists nor victims. Does your tach wiring call out
> grounding of one side of the signal wire?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
> Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelion Design to get it copper plated?...Henador
The copper clad aluminum I sell is not plated. This wouldn't be good, plating always
has pinholes and wears off. The Super-CCA I sell is "clad" which is a process
where copper and aluminum are fused together. 10% of the diameter of the
crossection is actually copper. Copperweld Inc., historically made lots of different
stuff clad with copper by this process. It is important to know that
there is a long history of aluminum wiring problems, but essentially NO HISTORY
of CCA problems. The wire behaves very much like copper
Some notes of metals:
1) In many applications the conductivity of the metal is less important than the
surface reactivity with atmospheric oxygen (or in the case of titanium only,
with nitrogen). Impure aluminum oxide is the same as sapphire or corundum and
is quite insulating. Copper oxide looks bad but still conducts electricity well.
Same for silver. It can turn black and conduct well. Stainless steel, nickel,
chrome and aluminum looks great initially but turns into an insulator. This
usually happens slowly. Battery contacts made of stainless steel were once
the bane of cheap electronics.
2) See: http://aerospacedefense.thomasnet.com/Asset/MIL-F-14072.pdf Finishes for Ground Based Electronic Equipment. There is probably an aircraft-version of this but it is all the same chemistry.
3) Gold has zero reactivity with the atmosphere. Gold is only a fairly- good conductor
but is great for low voltage electrical contacts. Silver is the best conductor
followed by copper, then aluminum.
4) Aluminum has over TWICE the conductivity per unit mass of any other metal. So
learning how to use it can save weight. The electrical power industry uses far
more aluminum than copper outside the home. Aluminum wiring in houses (that
used electrical plugs and switches designed for copper) were retrofitted by adding
a short pigtail of copper with special grease in a wirenut or crimp connector.
5) Galvanic corrosion depends on the Electrode potential in the electro-chemical
series AND presence of an electrolyte--saltwater perhaps but water will do.
If you put dissimilar metals together, but keep them air-tight and dry, there
is no problem.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372337#372337
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_579.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/03/12 |
| From: | kent(at)cybermesa.com |
O
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 23:56:34
- 05/03/12
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
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===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 05/03/12: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Stuart Hutchison)
2. 06:28 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:30 AM - Re: Hour meter ground (Richard Girard)
4. 08:19 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Eric M. Jones)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
Thanks guys.
I've made lots of aluminum and stainless parts for underwater photography
and yes, the galvanic corrosion between them can be brutal immersed in an
electrolyte liek sea water. Ultra Tef-Gel from B&C Specialty helps, but I
suppose aluminum adjoining stainless is very common at the firewall and
doesn't seem to present too many problems without an electrolyte ... I could
be wrong, but that area stays pretty dry and I haven't witnessed much
corrosion at the firewall on aircraft. I'm less worried about the aluminium
bronze oxidising - a gas tight seal is obviously important because all the
usual metal options oxidise, but there must be tens of thousands of aircraft
with ground wires bonded direct to aluminium. I guess I'll just use
di-electric grease to keep the air out at the point where the stud meets
with the firewall, or perhaps make a phenolic bush to insulate it from the
stainless, then bond the stud to a substantial part of the aluminum
structure on the inside (such as an engine mounting bolt).
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
With copper and aluminum, it's bound to be extremely low resistance, but the
aluminum will corrode on the surface to form alumina, which may interfere
with good connections. Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelion
Design to get it copper plated? Or better yet, why not go with copper bar?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/03/12 |
| From: | kent(at)cybermesa.com |
O
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 23:56:34
- 05/03/12
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-05-03&Archive=AeroElectric
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-05-03&Archive=AeroElectric
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 05/03/12: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Stuart Hutchison)
2. 06:28 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:30 AM - Re: Hour meter ground (Richard Girard)
4. 08:19 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Eric M. Jones)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
Thanks guys.
I've made lots of aluminum and stainless parts for underwater photography
and yes, the galvanic corrosion between them can be brutal immersed in an
electrolyte liek sea water. Ultra Tef-Gel from B&C Specialty helps, but I
suppose aluminum adjoining stainless is very common at the firewall and
doesn't seem to present too many problems without an electrolyte ... I could
be wrong, but that area stays pretty dry and I haven't witnessed much
corrosion at the firewall on aircraft. I'm less worried about the aluminium
bronze oxidising - a gas tight seal is obviously important because all the
usual metal options oxidise, but there must be tens of thousands of aircraft
with ground wires bonded direct to aluminium. I guess I'll just use
di-electric grease to keep the air out at the point where the stud meets
with the firewall, or perhaps make a phenolic bush to insulate it from the
stainless, then bond the stud to a substantial part of the aluminum
structure on the inside (such as an engine mounting bolt).
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
With copper and aluminum, it's bound to be extremely low resistance, but the
aluminum will corrode on the surface to form alumina, which may interfere
with good connections. Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelion
Design to get it copper plated? Or better yet, why not go with copper bar?
It's relatively cheap and known good material. Beats ripping out something
that didn't work that well.
Henador Titzoff
_____
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
At 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
G'day Bob,
Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of brass for
the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it, but are there any
known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless steel - I'd like to turn a
custom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the engine ground.
Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's
any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors
but the way we use it (large cross-sections and/or
short lengths) the electrical resistance doesn't
raise concerns. I don't know any specifics about its
reactivity with other metals but I think anything
against stainless is pretty low risk . . .
Perhaps others on the List have experience foundations
from which to advise you further . . .
Bob . . .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://w======
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
At 03:06 AM 5/3/2012, you wrote:
Thanks guys.
I've made lots of aluminum and stainless parts for underwater
photography and yes, the galvanic corrosion between them can be
brutal immersed in an electrolyte liek sea water. Ultra Tef-Gel from
B&C Specialty helps, but I suppose aluminum adjoining stainless is
very common at the firewall and doesn't seem to present too many
problems without an electrolyte ... I could be wrong, but that area
stays pretty dry and I haven't witnessed much corrosion at the
firewall on aircraft.
Agreed.
I'm less worried about the aluminium bronze oxidising - a gas tight
seal is obviously important because all the usual metal options
oxidise, but there must be tens of thousands of aircraft with ground
wires bonded direct to aluminium.
The legacy process involves putting a tin-plated copper
terminal down on a brightly buffed area of aluminum and
applying lots of pressure with the attach hardware. The
surface areas in gas-tight contact are, as you suggest,
not subject to environmental stresses. The outside of the
joint can get pretty cruddy with age without having the
connection go bad.
I guess I'll just use di-electric grease to keep the air out at
the point where the stud meets with the firewall, or perhaps make a
phenolic bush to insulate it from the stainless, then bond the stud
to a substantial part of the aluminum structure on the inside (such
as an engine mounting bolt).
I think clean, grease and lots of pressure are key. Additional
bonding is not useful.
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hour meter ground
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com**>
> The tach has its own signal wire.
None of the Rotax wiring diagrams for the various regulators has an AC
> going to ground.
As pointed out, the note on the drawing for the hour meter says if one of
> the AC feed wires is grounded that wire is used for pin 5 on the meter.
> Otherwise the two AC wires feed the meter and it makes no difference which
> goes to the meter connections.
Rick
> At 02:46 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>
>> Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
> Hmmm . . . separate winding for the tachometer. Your
> AC power to the rectifier/regulator cannot be grounded
> on one side so that you can have full-wave rectification.
> This tach coil is a very low power source. Do you havenown good material. Beats
ripping out something
that didn't work that well.
Henador Titzoff
_____
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
At 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
G'day Bob,
Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of brass for
the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it, but are there any
known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless steel - I'd like to turn a
custom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the engine ground.
Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's
any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors
but the way we use it (large cross-sections and/or
short lengths) the electrical resistance doesn't
raise concerns. I don't know any specifics about its
reactivity with other metals but I think anything
against stainless is pretty low risk . . .
Perhaps others on the List have experience foundations
from which to advise you further . . .
Bob . . .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://w======
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
At 03:06 AM 5/3/2012, you wrote:
Thanks guys.
I've made lots of aluminum and stainless parts for underwater
photography and yes, the galvanic corrosion between them can be
brutal immersed in an electrolyte liek sea water. Ultra Tef-Gel from
B&C Specialty helps, but I suppose aluminum adjoining stainless is
very common at the firewall and doesn't seem to present too many
problems without an electrolyte ... I could be wrong, but that area
stays pretty dry and I haven't witnessed much corrosion at the
firewall on aircraft.
Agreed.
I'm less worried about the aluminium bronze oxidising - a gas tight
seal is obviously important because all the usual metal options
oxidise, but there must be tens of thousands of aircraft with ground
wires bonded direct to aluminium.
The legacy process involves putting a tin-plated copper
terminal down on a brightly buffed area of aluminum and
applying lots of pressure with the attach hardware. The
surface areas in gas-tight contact are, as you suggest,
not subject to environmental stresses. The outside of the
joint can get pretty cruddy with age without having the
connection go bad.
I guess I'll just use di-electric grease to keep the air out at
the point where the stud meets with the firewall, or perhaps make a
phenolic bush to insulate it from the stainless, then bond the stud
to a substantial part of the aluminum structure on the inside (such
as an engine mounting bolt).
I think clean, grease and lots of pressure are key. Additional
bonding is not useful.
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hour meter ground
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com**>
> The tach has its own signal wire.
None of the Rotax wiring diagrams for the various regulators has an AC
> going to ground.
As pointed out, the note on the drawing for the hour meter says if one of
> the AC feed wires is grounded that wire is used for pin 5 on the meter.
> Otherwise the two AC wires feed the meter and it makes no difference which
> goes to the meter connections.
Rick
> At 02:46 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>
>> Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
> Hmmm . . . separate winding for the tachometer. Your
> AC power to the rectifier/regulator cannot be grounded
> on one side so that you can have full-wave rectification.
> This tach coil is a very low power source. Do you have
> an electronic tach reading this output too? In any case,
> exactly where it grounds (if at all) is of little
> consequence. These two systems are neither potential
> antagonists nor victims. Does your tach wiring call out
> grounding of one side of the signal wire?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
> Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelion Design to get it copper plated?...Henador
The copper clad aluminum I sell is not plated. This wouldn't be good, plating always
has pinholes and wears off. The Super-CCA I sell is "clad" which is a process
where copper and aluminum are fused together. 10% of the diameter of the
crossection is actually copper. Copperweld Inc., historically made lots of different
stuff clad with copper by this process. It is important to know that
there is a long history of aluminum wiring problems, but essentially NO HISTORY
of CCA problems. The wire behaves very much like copper
Some notes of metals:
1) In many applications the conductivity of the metal is less important than the
surface reactivity with atmospheric oxygen (or in the case of titanium only,
with nitrogen). Impure aluminum oxide is the same as sapphire or corundum and
is quite insulating. Copper oxide looks bad but still conducts electricity well.
Same for silver. It can turn black and conduct well. Stainless steel, nickel,
chrome and aluminum looks great initially but turns into an insulator. This
usually happens slowly. Battery contacts made of stainless steel were once
the bane of cheap electronics.
2) See: http://aerospacedefense.thomasnet.com/Asset/MIL-F-14072.pdf Finishes for Ground Based Electronic Equipment. There is probably an aircraft-version of this but it is all the same chemistry.
3) Gold has zero reactivity with the atmosphere. Gold is only a fairly- good conductor
but is great for low voltage electrical contacts. Silver is the best conductor
followed by copper, then aluminum.
4) Aluminum has over TWICE the conductivity per unit mass of any other metal. So
learning how to use it can save weight. The electrical power industry uses far
more aluminum than copper outside the home. Aluminum wiring in houses (that
used electrical plugs and switches designed for copper) were retrofitted by adding
a short pigtail of copper with special grease in a wirenut or crimp connector.
5) Galvanic corrosion depends on the Electrode potential in the electro-chemical
series AND presence of an electrolyte--saltwater perhaps but water will do.
If you put dissimilar metals together, but keep them air-tight and dry, there
is no problem.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372337#372337
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_579.pdf
> an electronic tach reading this output too? In any case,
> exactly where it grounds (if at all) is of little
> consequence. These two systems are neither potential
> antagonists nor victims. Does your tach wiring call out
> grounding of one side of the signal wire?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
> Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelion Design to get it copper plated?...Henador
The copper clad aluminum I sell is not plated. This wouldn't be good, plating always
has pinholes and wears off. The Super-CCA I sell is "clad" which is a process
where copper and aluminum are fused together. 10% of the diameter of the
crossection is actually copper. Copperweld Inc., historically made lots of different
stuff clad with copper by this process. It is important to know that
there is a long history of aluminum wiring problems, but essentially NO HISTORY
of CCA problems. The wire behaves very much like copper
Some notes of metals:
1) In many applications the conductivity of the metal is less important than the
surface reactivity with atmospheric oxygen (or in the case of titanium only,
with nitrogen). Impure aluminum oxide is the same as sapphire or corundum and
is quite insulating. Copper oxide looks bad but still conducts electricity well.
Same for silver. It can turn black and conduct well. Stainless steel, nickel,
chrome and aluminum looks great initially but turns into an insulator. This
usually happens slowly. Battery contacts made of stainless steel were once
the bane of cheap electronics.
2) See: http://aerospacedefense.thomasnet.com/Asset/MIL-F-14072.pdf Finishes for Ground Based Electronic Equipment. There is probably an aircraft-version of this but it is all the same chemistry.
3) Gold has zero reactivity with the atmosphere. Gold is only a fairly- good conductor
but is great for low voltage electrical contacts. Silver is the best conductor
followed by copper, then aluminum.
4) Aluminum has over TWICE the conductivity per unit mass of any other metal. So
learning how to use it can save weight. The electrical power industry uses far
more aluminum than copper outside the home. Aluminum wiring in houses (that
used electrical plugs and switches designed for copper) were retrofitted by adding
a short pigtail of copper with special grease in a wirenut or crimp connector.
5) Galvanic corrosion depends on the Electrode potential in the electro-chemical
series AND presence of an electrolyte--saltwater perhaps but water will do.
If you put dissimilar metals together, but keep them air-tight and dry, there
is no problem.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372337#372337
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_579.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/03/12 |
| From: | kent(at)cybermesa.com |
O
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 23:56:34
- 05/03/12
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-05-03&Archive=AeroElectric
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-05-03&Archive=AeroElectric
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 05/03/12: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Stuart Hutchison)
2. 06:28 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:30 AM - Re: Hour meter ground (Richard Girard)
4. 08:19 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Eric M. Jones)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
Thanks guys.
I've made lots of aluminum and stainless parts for underwater photography
and yes, the galvanic corrosion between them can be brutal immersed in an
electrolyte liek sea water. Ultra Tef-Gel from B&C Specialty helps, but I
suppose aluminum adjoining stainless is very common at the firewall and
doesn't seem to present too many problems without an electrolyte ... I could
be wrong, but that area stays pretty dry and I haven't witnessed much
corrosion at the firewall on aircraft. I'm less worried about the aluminium
bronze oxidising - a gas tight seal is obviously important because all the
usual metal options oxidise, but there must be tens of thousands of aircraft
with ground wires bonded direct to aluminium. I guess I'll just use
di-electric grease to keep the air out at the point where the stud meets
with the firewall, or perhaps make a phenolic bush to insulate it from the
stainless, then bond the stud to a substantial part of the aluminum
structure on the inside (such as an engine mounting bolt).
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
With copper and aluminum, it's bound to be extremely low resistance, but the
aluminum will corrode on the surface to form alumina, which may interfere
with good connections. Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelion
Design to get it copper plated? Or better yet, why not go with copper bar?
It's relatively cheap and known good material. Beats ripping out something
that didn't work that well.
Henador Titzoff
_____
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
At 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
G'day Bob,
Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of brass for
the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it, but are there any
known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless steel - I'd like to turn a
custom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the engine ground.
Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's
any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors
but the way we use it (large cross-sections and/or
short lengths) the electrical resistance doesn't
raise concerns. I don't know any specifics about its
reactivity with other metals but I think anything
against stainless is pretty low risk . . .
Perhaps others on the List have experience foundations
from which to advise you further . . .
Bob . . .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://w======
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
At 03:06 AM 5/3/2012, you wrote:
Thanks guys.
I've made lots of aluminum and stainless parts for underwater
photography and yes, the galvanic corrosion between them can be
brutal immersed in an electrolyte liek sea water. Ultra Tef-Gel from
B&C Specialty helps, but I suppose aluminum adjoining stainless is
very common at the firewall and doesn't seem to present too many
problems without an electrolyte ... I could be wrong, but that area
stays pretty dry and I haven't witnessed much corrosion at the
firewall on aircraft.
Agreed.
I'm less worried about the aluminium bronze oxidising - a gas tight
seal is obviously important because all the usual metal options
oxidise, but there must be tens of thousands of aircraft with ground
wires bonded direct to aluminium.
The legacy process involves putting a tin-plated copper
terminal down on a brightly buffed area of aluminum and
applying lots of pressure with the attach hardware. The
surface areas in gas-tight contact are, as you suggest,
not subject to environmental stresses. The outside of the
joint can get pretty cruddy with age without having the
connection go bad.
I guess I'll just use di-electric grease to keep the air out at
the point where the stud meets with the firewall, or perhaps make a
phenolic bush to insulate it from the stainless, then bond the stud
to a substantial part of the aluminum structure on the inside (such
as an engine mounting bolt).
I think clean, grease and lots of pressure are key. Additional
bonding is not useful.
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hour meter ground
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com**>
> The tach has its own signal wire.
None of the Rotax wiring diagrams for the various regulators has an AC
> going to ground.
As pointed out, the note on the drawing for the hour meter says if one of
> the AC feed wires is grounded that wire is used for pin 5 on the meter.
> Otherwise the two AC wires feed the meter and it makes no difference which
> goes to the meter connections.
Rick
> At 02:46 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>
>> Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
> Hmmm . . . separate winding for the tachometer. Your
> AC power to the rectifier/regulator cannot be grounded
> on one side so that you can have full-wave rectification.
> This tach coil is a very low power source. Do you have
> an electronic tach reading this output too? In any case,
> exactly where it grounds (if at all) is of little
> consequence. These two systems are neither potential
> antagonists nor victims. Does your tach wiring call out
> grounding of one side of the signal wire?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
> Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelion Design to get it copper plated?...Henador
The copper clad aluminum I sell is not plated. This wouldn't be good, plating always
has pinholes and wears off. The Super-CCA I sell is "clad" which is a process
where copper and aluminum are fused together. 10% of the diameter of the
crossection is actually copper. Copperweld Inc., historically made lots of different
stuff clad with copper by this process. It is important to know that
there is a long history of aluminum wiring problems, but essentially NO HISTORY
of CCA problems. The wire behaves very much like copper
Some notes of metals:
1) In many applications the conductivity of the metal is less important than the
surface reactivity with atmospheric oxygen (or in the case of titanium only,
with nitrogen). Impure aluminum oxide is the same as sapphire or corundum and
is quite insulating. Copper oxide looks bad but still conducts electricity well.
Same for silver. It can turn black and conduct well. Stainless steel, nickel,
chrome and aluminum looks great initially but turns into an insulator. This
usually happens slowly. Battery contacts made of stainless steel were once
the bane of cheap electronics.
2) See: http://aerospacedefense.thomasnet.com/Asset/MIL-F-14072.pdf Finishes for Ground Based Electronic Equipment. There is probably an aircraft-version of this but it is all the same chemistry.
3) Gold has zero reactivity with the atmosphere. Gold is only a fairly- good conductor
but is great for low voltage electrical contacts. Silver is the best conductor
followed by copper, then aluminum.
4) Aluminum has over TWICE the conductivity per unit mass of any other metal. So
learning how to use it can save weight. The electrical power industry uses far
more aluminum than copper outside the home. Aluminum wiring in houses (that
used electrical plugs and switches designed for copper) were retrofitted by adding
a short pigtail of copper with special grease in a wirenut or crimp connector.
5) Galvanic corrosion depends on the Electrode potential in the electro-chemical
series AND presence of an electrolyte--saltwater perhaps but water will do.
If you put dissimilar metals together, but keep them air-tight and dry, there
is no problem.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372337#372337
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_579.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OS Wig-Wag Project |
The boards are here and I've stuffed some of the
parts. Thought I'd ordered the IRF6201 hex-fets
but that slipped under the rug. Those are on order
and should be here Monday. May have the development
articles ready to mail then.
How many folks are herding bytes for this board
configuration and need hardware? I need mailing
addresses.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Some folks really good at what they do. . . |
I ordered the wig-wag hex-fets from Digikey and in less than
60 minutes, I got an e-mail with a tracking number.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OS Wig-Wag Project |
| From: | "gregmchugh" <gregmchugh(at)aol.com> |
Bob,
Send one out to me, please...
I will test the current software and if it checks out I will flash some
PIC12F683 chips and send them out to you. If there is anyone else
who is getting one of the initial boards and would like a flashed
micro let me know.
Greg McHugh
4201 N Willoway Estates Ct
Bloomfield Hills, MI 48302
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372397#372397
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | Secrets Techniques |
I knew there must be a tool for this!!!
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/twiststrip.php
And look at today's special price at the bottom of the page!!!
;-) -john-
can you believe it!
I stumbled on it while looking for unshielded tefzel insulated twisted pair
(which I'm still looking for).
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Loram
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Secrets Techniques
Well, that works like a charm!... I've spent so many years trying not to
melt the insulation that I was not taking full advantage of the properties
of Tefzel. I've encountered solder sleeves in the past, but never appreciate
their purpose.
onward and upward (someday), -john-
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Secrets Techniques
At 11:12 PM 4/19/2012, you wrote:
Sixty years I've been doing this! Built all my own ham radio gear as a
teenager in the 50's, got a EE degree from a prestigious university, spent
my adult life as a development engineer designing medical and laboratory
instruments. You'd think I could strip a multiconductor shield Tefzel
insulated cable in my sleep, but it's a bit@h! I make a mess of the shield
when I try to remove the Tefzel. What is the secret trick to it!
The secret is go ahead and 'trash' the shield.
I have a bunch of 22AWG, 3-conductor shielded
that a common Stripmaster more-or-less strips
the outer jacket and probably 80% of the shield
strands. Then I use a solder-sleeve
to put a neat pigtail on the damaged shielding.
There are normally no currents flowing in the
shield. If your grounding pig-tail gets good
electrical connection with only one of of the
strands, you're good to go. More than likely
you can get good connection with 10% or more
of the shield stranding. The neat thing
is that the pigtail under heat shrink covers
the carnage.
I'll see if I can dig some of the stuff up
and do a comic-book series of pictures on the
process tomorrow.
Bob . . .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Twisted pair tefzel |
Hi John-
How much of the tefzel twisted pair wire are you looking for? I had some, might
have a spool. It'll be a week or so before I'm back in town, though.
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
Hi Bob,
Maybe I didn't explain myself well, I'm a bit intrigued by your last
comment. I appreciate that keeping the number of joins down is priceless,
but since stainless is such a poor conductor, I would have expected to need
to bond the stud to something else and not rely on current radiating out
through the thin stainless firewall material? Probably overkill, but I made
mine like the attached photo, which will have a short # 2 CCA fatwire
between the forrest of ground tabs and an engine mounting bolt where there
is chrome-moly structure bolted to a large part of the aluminium airframe.
All of the bonding contact areas on my stud are at least 3/4", while the
main shaft is 3/8 diameter, as are the threads and nuts. There is an
silicone insulating washer on the front and back of the firewall for
vibration absorbption as well.
.... I guess I'll just use di-electric grease to keep the air out at the
point where the stud meets with the firewall, or perhaps make a phenolic
bush to insulate it from the stainless, then bond the stud to a substantial
part of the aluminum structure on the inside (such as an engine mounting
bolt)" ....
"I think clean, grease and lots of pressure are key. Additional
bonding is not useful."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Pair [was: Secrets Techniques] |
John,
> ... while looking for unshielded tefzel insulated twisted pair
> (which I'm still looking for).
If 22 AWG is suitable for your application, Stein Air sells a variety of colors
of twisted pair (and triples, etc.).
Try this link: http://www.steinair.net/store.cfm?tlcatid=32 and scroll down to
"Wire,Twisted". Or go to http://www.steinair.net, click on "Wire / Coax", and
scroll down the page.
Best,
Joe
Independence, OR
http://www.mail2600.com/cgi-bin/webcam.cgi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Secrets Techniques |
At 07:30 AM 5/5/2012, you wrote:
> I knew there must be a tool for this!!!
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/twiststrip.php
>
Hadn't seen this one. Your find reminds me that
I haven't a clue as to how this task was handled
at any of TC factories I worked at. I don't recall
that I ever had cause to visit the wire-slingers
for a close look at how they did things. All of
my contact with their work product was after it
got installed on an airplane.
I've still got a badge for Hawker Beech but they
shipped their wire fab shops to Mexico about 10
years ago . . . I'll have to seek insight to those
processes elsewhere but I'll see what I can learn.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Secrets Techniques |
>;-) -john-
>can you believe it!
>I stumbled on it while looking for unshielded tefzel insulated
>twisted pair (which I'm still looking for).
I've got a few thousand feet of two
conductor 22AWG shielded. I probably
ought to list it in my catalog. Will
22AWG work for you and how much do you
need?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | Secrets Techniques |
Oh, please don't use any time better spent enjoying your grandson!
-john-
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 6:27 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Secrets Techniques
>
> -->
>
> At 07:30 AM 5/5/2012, you wrote:
>
> > I knew there must be a tool for this!!!
> >
> >
> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/twiststrip.php
> >
>
> Hadn't seen this one. Your find reminds me that
> I haven't a clue as to how this task was handled
> at any of TC factories I worked at. I don't recall
> that I ever had cause to visit the wire-slingers
> for a close look at how they did things. All of
> my contact with their work product was after it
> got installed on an airplane.
>
> I've still got a badge for Hawker Beech but they
> shipped their wire fab shops to Mexico about 10
> years ago . . . I'll have to seek insight to those
> processes elsewhere but I'll see what I can learn.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | Secrets Techniques |
I'm just looking for 15 ft of UNshielded twisted pair for the RS-422 data
lines in a Dynon D10A installation. If I can't find it, I'll just twist some
22 AWG, but would prefer to have the Tefzel casing for a little added
physical protection.
Shielded I got already. but thank you, -john-
(I wonder if there's tools for stripting three and four wire versions of the
shielded twisted shielded cable?)
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Secrets Techniques
;-) -john-
can you believe it!
I stumbled on it while looking for unshielded tefzel insulated twisted pair
(which I'm still looking for).
I've got a few thousand feet of two
conductor 22AWG shielded. I probably
ought to list it in my catalog. Will
22AWG work for you and how much do you
need?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Pair [was: Secrets Techniques] |
Thanks, Joe. Do you 'spose it's Tefzel? I tried calling but I think they're
out flying, today.
-john-
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Joe Dubner
> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 3:35 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Twisted Pair [was: Secrets Techniques]
>
>
>
> John,
>
> > ... while looking for unshielded tefzel insulated twisted
> pair (which
> > I'm still looking for).
>
> If 22 AWG is suitable for your application, Stein Air sells a
> variety of colors of twisted pair (and triples, etc.).
>
> Try this link: http://www.steinair.net/store.cfm?tlcatid=32
> and scroll down to "Wire,Twisted". Or go to
> http://www.steinair.net, click on "Wire / Coax", and scroll
> down the page.
>
> Best,
> Joe
> Independence, OR
> http://www.mail2600.com/cgi-bin/webcam.cgi
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | Twisted pair tefzel |
Thank you Glen. What I'm hoping to find is a twisted pair of Tefzel 22 AWG
wires inside a out sheath of Tefzel.
Would you let me know, when you can, if that's what you have? thanks,
-john-
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Glen Matejcek
> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 1:44 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Twisted pair tefzel
>
> -->
>
> Hi John-
>
> How much of the tefzel twisted pair wire are you looking for?
> I had some, might have a spool. It'll be a week or so
> before I'm back in town, though.
>
> Glen Matejcek
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Secrets Techniques |
At 01:26 PM 5/5/2012, you wrote:
>I'm just looking for 15 ft of UNshielded twisted pair for the
>RS-422 data lines in a Dynon D10A installation. If I can't find it,
>I'll just twist some 22 AWG, but would prefer to have the Tefzel
>casing for a little added physical protection.
>
>Shielded I got already. but thank you, -john-
then use it. it will be fine . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secrets Techniques |
Hi Bob-
WRT techniques for dealing with tefzel, Basler up in OSH comes to mind. When they
do a turbine conversion, every wire, tube, hose, and threaded fastener comes
out. It's quite process, and they build up their own harnesses right there
in their electrical loft.
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted pair tefzel |
Will do-
>
>From: "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Twisted pair tefzel
>
>
>Thank you Glen. What I'm hoping to find is a twisted pair of Tefzel 22 AWG
>wires inside a out sheath of Tefzel.
>
>Would you let me know, when you can, if that's what you have? thanks,
>-john-
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Secrets Techniques |
At 06:54 AM 5/6/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Bob-
>
>WRT techniques for dealing with tefzel, Basler up in OSH comes to
>mind. When they do a turbine conversion, every wire, tube, hose,
>and threaded fastener comes out. It's quite process, and they build
>up their own harnesses right there in their electrical loft.
Sure. Tefzel has been the insulation of choice
in GA aircraft (and most military) since the
early 80's.
I had the electrical-avionics group on the
Gates-Piaggio GP180 program at Lear. We
were considering Tefzel for that program
and discovered it required an State
Department technology export license if
we were going to use it in airplanes
sold outside the country.
A good friend of mine was a tech-rep for
Raychem who was offering an alternative
to Tefzel in their "Spec 55" wire. I brought
in some samples and the folks on the wire
balcony were playing with it when it was
announced that Lear had acquire the necessary
export license. The changeover to Tefzel was
pretty much a foregone conclusion in all
the TC aircraft.
Tefzel (or ETFE) is a cousin to Teflon
(PTFE) and is widely used in many technologies
besides wire. See:
http://tinyurl.com/24stb9e
http://tinyurl.com/yb462g6
It's not a really big deal for stripping
except when working with thin overlays
that (1) buckle in column load when
you try to push it off (2) a braided
structure with a very strong grip
on the insulation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | Secrets Techniques |
Yeah, I know. Just being anal.... I'll use it, thanks, -john-
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Secrets Techniques
At 01:26 PM 5/5/2012, you wrote:
I'm just looking for 15 ft of UNshielded twisted pair for the RS-422 data
lines in a Dynon D10A installation. If I can't find it, I'll just twist some
22 AWG, but would prefer to have the Tefzel casing for a little added
physical protection.
Shielded I got already. but thank you, -john-
then use it. it will be fine . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
Eric,=0A=0AThank you for correcting me about copper plating vs. copper clad
and also for the additional information after that. I continuously run int
o people, even engineers, who think gold is the metal with best conductance
. -As you point out, gold has almost zero reactivity with the atmosphere,
which makes it ideal for connector plating (or cladding!). -It is also i
deal inside ICs for thin plating and very thin wires, because it is so duct
ile.=0A=0AI'd like to point out something, though. -Below you say that si
lver is the best conductor, followed by copper then aluminum. Gold actually
follows copper and then aluminum. What's really surprising is that calcium
follows aluminum. The reasons calcium is not widely used as a conductor ar
e reactance to the atmosphere, easy dissolution in water, and insufficient
mechanical strength.=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0A From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net>=0ATo: aeroelectric-
list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 11:17 AM=0ASubject: AeroE
lectric-List: Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity=0A =0A--> AeroElectric-Lis
t message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" =0A=0A=0A> Why no
t send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelion Design to get it copper plated?
...Henador=0A=0A=0AThe copper clad aluminum I sell is not plated. This woul
dn't be good, plating always has pinholes and wears off. The Super-CCA I se
ll is "clad" which is a process where copper and aluminum are fused togethe
r. 10% of the diameter of the crossection is actually copper.- Copperweld
Inc., historically made lots of different stuff clad with copper by this p
rocess. It is important to know that there is a long history of aluminum wi
ring problems, but essentially NO HISTORY of CCA problems. The wire behaves
very much like copper=0A=0ASome notes of metals:=0A=0A1) In many applicati
ons the conductivity of the metal is less important than the surface reacti
vity with atmospheric oxygen (or in the case of- titanium only, with nitr
ogen). Impure aluminum oxide is the same as sapphire or corundum and is qui
te insulating. Copper oxide looks bad but still conducts electricity well.
Same for silver. It can turn black and conduct well. Stainless steel, nicke
l, chrome and aluminum looks great initially but turns into an insulator. T
his usually happens slowly. Battery contacts made of stainless steel were o
nce the bane of cheap electronics.=0A=0A2) See: http://aerospacedefense.tho
masnet.com/Asset/MIL-F-14072.pdf- Finishes for Ground Based Electronic Eq
uipment. There is probably an aircraft-version of this but it is all the sa
me chemistry.=0A=0A3) Gold has zero reactivity with the atmosphere. Gold is
only a fairly- good conductor but is great for low voltage electrical cont
acts. Silver is the best conductor followed by copper, then aluminum. =0A
=0A4) Aluminum has over TWICE the conductivity per unit mass of any other m
etal. So learning how to use it can save weight. The electrical power indus
try uses far more aluminum than copper outside the home. Aluminum wiring in
houses (that used electrical plugs and switches designed for copper) were
retrofitted by adding a short pigtail of copper with special grease in a wi
renut or crimp connector. =0A=0A5) Galvanic corrosion depends on the Electr
ode potential in the electro-chemical series AND presence of an electrolyte
--saltwater perhaps but water will do. If you put dissimilar metals togethe
r, but keep them air-tight and dry, there is no problem.=0A=0A--------=0AEr
ic M. Jones=0Awww.PerihelionDesign.com=0A113 Brentwood Drive=0ASouthbridge,
MA 01550=0A(508) 764-2072=0Aemjones(at)charter.net=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this
topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3723
37#372337=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//fil
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Henador,
Thanks. Right you are.
For elements that can be drawn into wires--Bulk Conductivity: Silver, Copper, Gold,
Aluminium. And Mass Conductivity: Aluminum, Copper, Silver, Zinc, Gold.
Eric
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372522#372522
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin GMA 240 Fail-Safe Question |
Can someone with actual hands-on experience with the Garmin GMA 240 Audio Panel
answer this question, please? Is the volume of the "Failsafe Warning Audio"
(P2402 pin 29) controllable or is it fixed?
The installation manual implies it's useful for an audio input that will be
audible in the pilot headset even if power is removed. It seems like an obvious
choice for my EFIS (Dynon Skyview) warning audio but not if the audio level is
not acceptable and cannot be set. In that case, one of the ALERT, AUX, or even
NAV audio inputs would work better -- except in the case of power failure.
Or maybe it's wired in parallel with one of the other inputs to provide an
adjustable level under normal conditions and some arbitrary level after a power
failure.
Has anyone used this feature?
Thanks,
Joe
Independence, OR
http://www.mail2600.com/cgi-bin/webcam.cgi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. |
But some things to me are just mind boggling.
http://www.wthr.com/video?clipId=7054149
<http://www.wthr.com/video?clipId=7054149&topVideoCatNo=103348&autoStart=tru
e> &topVideoCatNo=103348&autoStart=true
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. |
Totally inappropriate
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Bradburry
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:40 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: My apologies if you feel this is
inappropriate..
But some things to me are just mind boggling.
http://www.wthr.com/video?clipId=7054149&topVideoCatNo=103348&autoSta
rt=true
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bad Contactor Diode? |
| From: | "stearman456" <warbirds(at)shaw.ca> |
Recently a friend of mine purchased an RV-6A, and shortly after buying it he turned
the master switch on one morning, there was a "poof", and the wire supplying
the ground to the battery contactor burnt up.
The airplane needed some major electrical work (even prior to this). It was wired
basically according to Z-11 (I recognized the architecture straight away)
but CRUDE! Cripes... Anyway, we changed out the contactor as it was pretty rough
looking and I had a new one on the shelf from Spruce. But it didn't have
a spark catching diode so we used the old diode that the previous owner had made
up. This time when he powered it up (hanging onto the ground wire) he felt
the wire getting hot immediately and killed the power before anything flamed.
Changed the contactor completely and put a new one from B&C (with the supplied
diode) in and the problem went away. So my question is, if the diode goes
on the contactor, do you normally end up with a shorted out contactor? And if
you do, is there a fix or a safety, like putting a fuseable link in the contactor
ground wire?
Thanks for all the help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372625#372625
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. |
| From: | "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
Did you really need to ask whether this is inappropriate here?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372637#372637
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Contactor Diode? |
At 08:56 AM 5/8/2012, you wrote:
Recently a friend of mine purchased an RV-6A, and shortly after
buying it he turned the master switch on one morning, there was a
"poof", and the wire supplying the ground to the battery contactor burnt up.
This is an exceedingly rare event. So rare that
legacy design goals in TC aircraft do not incorporate
any form of protection for this particular wire . . .
The airplane needed some major electrical work (even prior to
this). It was wired basically according to Z-11 (I recognized the
architecture straight away) but CRUDE! Cripes... Anyway, we changed
out the contactor as it was pretty rough looking and I had a new one
on the shelf from Spruce. But it didn't have a spark catching diode
so we used the old diode that the previous owner had made up. This
time when he powered it up (hanging onto the ground wire) he felt the
wire getting hot immediately and killed the power before anything
flamed. Changed the contactor completely and put a new one from B&C
(with the supplied diode) in and the problem went away.
Helpful observations. These contactors don't generally
short. Their most common failure mode is errosion of contacts
followed in frequency by open coil. About 15 months ago we
did a tear-down inspection on a new-contactor failure. The
thread of this discussion can be found at:
http://tinyurl.com/6mu7gba
with pictures at:
http://tinyurl.com/7petyz8
In this case, the contactor suffered from assembly error
where the coil wires were not properly soldered.
So my question is, if the diode goes on the contactor, do you
normally end up with a shorted out contactor?
Do you still have the old parts? Measure the resistance
of the contactor coils. Odds are high that they're okay
and will measure something on the order of 15 ohms. Also
check the diode with an ohmmeter. I'm betting that you
see equally LOW (short) resistance both ways through the
diode.
And if you do, is there a fix or a safety, like putting a fuseable
link in the contactor ground wire?
You can do this. A 5A in-line fuse right at the contactor
would prevent a repeat . . . but I'd be interested in
knowing what the part number and source was for the diode.
It may be little comfort to say that this is a rare event . . .
when an airplane right in front of you has suffered the
failure. I can only offer that it's not even a low-order
concern in TC or OBAM aircraft. At the same time, adding
the protection is similarly low risk.
Thanks for all the help.
If an when you identify the shorted part, I'd like to
know which part and perhaps have it for inspection.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
I don't see where he did ask- he said in the subject line that he knew
it was inappropriate, but he posted it anyway. That says a lot to me
about his level of respect for we list members (or the lack thereof),
and for the list itself. Sometimes you can just hand someone a paint
brush and they'll gladly paint for you with their true colors.
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Did you really need to ask whether this is inappropriate here?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372637#372637
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. |
At 12:50 PM 5/8/2012, you wrote:
>
>I don't see where he did ask- he said in the subject line that he knew
>it was inappropriate, but he posted it anyway. That says a lot to me
>about his level of respect for we list members (or the lack thereof),
>and for the list itself. Sometimes you can just hand someone a paint
>brush and they'll gladly paint for you with their true colors.
Let's not project words or thoughts into this list member's
head. It isn't like he was promoting a work-from-home scam
or amazing cancer cure.
I think the point has been made.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fisher Paul A." <FisherPaulA(at)johndeere.com> |
| Subject: | OS Wig-Wag Project |
Bob,
I'd like one of the boards. I'm not sure if I'll be herding bytes, or they will
be herding me, but I'd like to try! Please let me know what I owe you for it.
Greg - as long as I've got your code, I'll try to flash my own chip... but I'll
contact you if I can't get it to work!! ;-)
Thank you!!
Paul A. Fisher
8428 114th Avenue West
Taylor Ridge, Illinois 61284
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OS Wig-Wag Project
The boards are here and I've stuffed some of the
parts. Thought I'd ordered the IRF6201 hex-fets
but that slipped under the rug. Those are on order
and should be here Monday. May have the development
articles ready to mail then.
How many folks are herding bytes for this board
configuration and need hardware? I need mailing
addresses.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. |
The strange thing about these off subject emails is that we can choose to l
eave them alone, yet there is always someone who will not; thus, we get a r
ash of responses that further eat up our precious time. I wouldn't be surpr
ised if we get 20 more responses by the time this is all over with, all pre
tty much saying the same thing.=0A=0AMr. Bradburro, if all you meant to do
was alert us to the state of our declining country, mission accomplished.
-If you meant to get attention and start mass hysteria, mission accomplis
hed.=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics
.com =0ASent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 1:50 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List
: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate..=0A =0A--> AeroElectr
ic-List message posted by: Jared Yates =0A=0AI don't
see where he did ask- he said in the subject line that he knew=0Ait was ina
ppropriate, but he posted it anyway.- That says a lot to me=0Aabout his l
evel of respect for we list members (or the lack thereof),=0Aand for the li
st itself.- Sometimes you can just hand someone a paint=0Abrush and they'
ll gladly paint for you with their true colors.=0A=0AOn Tue, May 8, 2012 at
1:05 PM, Jim Berry wrote:=0A> --> AeroElectric-List m
essage posted by: "Jim Berry" =0A>=0A> Did you really n
eed to ask whether this is inappropriate here?=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Read thi
s topic online here:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=
==============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Jones <warbirds(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Contactor Diode? |
Hi Bob,
I know I have the diode and the first replacement contactor, and I'm pretty sure
the original contactor is still in the bottom of the garbage can in the shop.
I'll box it all up and get it headed your way this week. I'd appreciate reading
the autopsy report once you've had a look at it.
Dan Jones
warbirds(at)shaw.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 11:31:45 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bad Contactor Diode?
At 08:56 AM 5/8/2012, you wrote:
Recently a friend of mine purchased an RV-6A, and shortly after buying it he turned
the master switch on one morning, there was a "poof", and the wire supplying
the ground to the battery contactor burnt up.
This is an exceedingly rare event. So rare that legacy design goals in TC aircraft
do not incorporate any form of protection for this particular wire . . .
The airplane needed some major electrical work (even prior to this). It was wired
basically according to Z-11 (I recognized the architecture straight away) but
CRUDE! Cripes... Anyway, we changed out the contactor as it was pretty rough
looking and I had a new one on the shelf from Spruce. But it didn't have a spark
catching diode so we used the old diode that the previous owner had made
up. This time when he powered it up (hanging onto the ground wire) he felt the
wire getting hot immediately and killed the power before anything flamed. Changed
the contactor completely and put a new one from B&C (with the supplied diode)
in and the problem went away.
Helpful observations. These contactors don't generally short. Their most common
failure mode is errosion of contacts followed in frequency by open coil. About
15 months ago we did a tear-down inspection on a new-contactor failure. The
thread of this discussion can be found at:
http://tinyurl.com/6mu7gba
with pictures at:
http://tinyurl.com/7petyz8
In this case, the contactor suffered from assembly error where the coil wires were
not properly soldered.
So my question is, if the diode goes on the contactor, do you normally end up with
a shorted out contactor?
Do you still have the old parts? Measure the resistance of the contactor coils.
Odds are high that they're okay and will measure something on the order of 15
ohms. Also check the diode with an ohmmeter. I'm betting that you see equally
LOW (short) resistance both ways through the diode.
And if you do, is there a fix or a safety, like putting a fuseable link in the
contactor ground wire?
You can do this. A 5A in-line fuse right at the contactor would prevent a repeat
. . . but I'd be interested in knowing what the part number and source was for
the diode. It may be little comfort to say that this is a rare event . . .
when an airplane right in front of you has suffered the failure. I can only offer
that it's not even a low-order concern in TC or OBAM aircraft. At the same
time, adding the protection is similarly low risk.
Thanks for all the help.
If an when you identify the shorted part, I'd like to know which part and perhaps
have it for inspection. Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Contactor Diode? |
At 09:23 PM 5/8/2012, you wrote:
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I know I have the diode and the first replacement contactor, and I'm
>pretty sure the original contactor is still in the bottom of the
>garbage can in the shop. I'll box it all up and get it headed your
>way this week. I'd appreciate reading the autopsy report once
>you've had a look at it.
Very good.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bad Contactor Diode? |
| From: | "stearman456" <warbirds(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi Bob,
Found it all and it's boxed up, ready to ship. Can you just email me the address
that you'd like it sent to, please?
Dan
warbirds(at)shaw.ca
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372748#372748
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Contactor Diode? |
At 09:25 AM 5/10/2012, you wrote:
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Found it all and it's boxed up, ready to ship. Can you just email
>me the address that you'd like it sent to, please?
box 130, Medicine Lodge, KS 67104
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Chevy Volt electrics |
Here is an article on how the Chevy Volt electrical system is put together.
Some on the list may be interested.
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy Volt electrics |
At 01:31 PM 5/10/2012, you wrote:
>Here is an article on how the Chevy Volt electrical system is put together.
>Some on the list may be interested.
Didn't see either a link or an attachment.
Can you re-send?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy Volt electrics |
Bob,=0A=0AI tried opening the winmail.dat file with Word, Adobe PDF Reader,
EditPlus, Notepad and one more program, but none worked; therefore, I trie
d the last resort:=0A- - -1. -Saved winmail.dat to the desktop=0A
- - -2. Went to-http://www.winmaildat.com/=0A- - -3. Clicked
on Choose File to choose what file I wanted to convert. -I chose winmail.
dat=0A- - -4. Clicked on Send file to send winmail.dat to the convert
er=0A- - -5. Clicked on the extracted file (PDF), which is right belo
w the winmail.dat uploaded file=0A- - -6. Selected Keep and where to
put it when the browser offered=0A- - -7. Go to save location and ope
n with your favorite PDF reader=0A=0AThe file appears to be legit. I'm gonn
a attach it to this email, though, so everyone doesn't have to do the above
.=0A=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "R
obert L. Nuckolls, III" =0ATo: aeroelectric-
list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 8:05 PM=0ASubject: Re: A
eroElectric-List: Chevy Volt electrics=0A =0A--> AeroElectric-List message
posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" =0A=0AA
t 01:31 PM 5/10/2012, you wrote:=0A> Here is an article on how the Chevy Vo
lt electrical system is put together.=0A> Some on the list may be intereste
d.=0A=0ADidn't see either a link or an attachment.=0ACan you re-send?=0A=0A
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Chevy Volt electrics |
>Here is an article on how the Chevy Volt electrical system is put
together.
>Some on the list may be interested.
Didn't see either a link or an attachment.
Can you re-send?
Bob . . .
My return of the posting showed it with an openable
attachment. Here is a link also:
http://www.edn.com/article/521722-Teardown_reveals_Chevy_Volt_s_electroni
c_s
ecrets.php?cid=Newsletter+-+EDN+Weekly
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Chevy Volt electrics |
At 08:50 PM 5/10/2012, you wrote:
> >Here is an article on how the Chevy Volt electrical system is put together.
> >Some on the list may be interested.
>
> Didn't see either a link or an attachment.
> Can you re-send?
>
> Bob . . .
>
> My return of the posting showed it with an openable
>attachment. Here is a link also:
Thanks! The link wraps so a bit fussy for cut-n-paste.
Here's a tinyurl
http://tinyurl.com/6vnhyox
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Chevy Volt electrics |
For what it's worth the original attachment worked for me.
Allen Fulmer
RV7
_____________________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER &
JEAN CURTIS
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:32 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Chevy Volt electrics
Here is an article on how the Chevy Volt electrical system is put together.
Some on the list may be interested.
<< File: 26349-Teardown_reveals_Chevy_Volt_s_electronic_secrets_PDF[1].pdf
>>
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chevy Volt electrics |
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
The winmail.dat file is a proprietary file produced by Microsoft Outlook. Outlook
is the only program that can open it. If you use any other mail program,
you're kinda outta luck. There are some programs that will interpret it. The
Outlook user that sent this file should change the settings in Outlook to attach
native files rather than the winmail.dat file.
Steve Thomas
________________________________________________________________________
On May 10, 2012, at 11:31 AM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS wrote:
> Here is an article on how the Chevy Volt electrical system is put together.
> Some on the list may be interested.
>
>
>
> Roger
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chevy Volt electrics |
| From: | "DeWitt (Dee) Whittington" <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com> |
Same for me, when I downloaded it and opened it with Adobe Acrobat Reader,
but not when it initially opened with Google whatever, .doc I think.
Dee
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Allen Fulmer wrote:
> **
>
> For what it=92s worth the original attachment worked for me.
>
> Allen Fulmer
>
> RV7
>
> _____________________________________________
> ***From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ]*** On Behalf Of* ROGER & JEAN CURTIS
> ***Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:32 PM
> ***To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> ***Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Chevy Volt electrics
>
> Here is an article on how the Chevy Volt electrical system is put
> together. Some on the list may be interested.
>
> << File:
> 26349-Teardown_reveals_Chevy_Volt_s_electronic_secrets_PDF[1].pdf >>
>
> Roger
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
DeWitt Whittington
www.VirginiaFlyIn.org
Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Volt electrics: To do or not to do, that is the question. |
>
> Thanks! The link wraps so a bit fussy for cut-n-paste.
> Here's a tinyurl
>
>http://tinyurl.com/6vnhyox
An interesting article, both for the technology described
and the information that give rise to pondering return
on investment/reliability.
Without a doubt, the industry's ability to put a host
of features into a small package is inarguable. From
the perspective of a user of such features, there's
a question of value. A second, and equally important
consideration is the consideration of risk. Few failures
in 4-wheeled vehicles pose concerns for life-threatening
failure . . . at least today. I'm reading mumbles
about all electric braking . . . and steer by wire
system being proposed for automobiles.
The longevity of exceedingly complex consumer products
speaks to advances of an ability to produce but
most markets for complex systems have little need to
worry about cost of ownership and gross reliability
issues that concern designers, builders and operators
of aircraft.
I think it is useful to watch what comes over the hill
in ground-based technologies and to ponder its utility
in future aircraft applications. At the same time,
I am cognizant of my own motivations to climb into
an admittedly risky machine and give up contact with
the ground. I do it for fun and personal satisfaction
as a pilot . . . whether the machine is fitted like a
J-3 or a 787 matters not . . . no, it does matter.
It takes too long and costs too much to be proficient
in a 787. Further, proficiency in a 787 takes too much
time and attention away from "flying." A talented instructor
and a J-3 frees me from the earth in a few hours in a
machine that places few demands on visceral or material
resources.
This gives rise to a personal considerations of what
features we should expend time, talent and resources
to acquire . . . and what we can live quite nicely
without. Each of us has to make the trade off between
design goals and expenditures. The Volt is one example
of some amazing abilities "to do stuff". But quite
often, the best way to drive a nail is the judicious
and skilled application of a hammer.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | ATC on a bracket |
On several occasions, like today, I've wanted to
incorporate a hard-mounted ATC fuse into a chassis
assembly. There are probably surface mounted holders
out there . . . just didn't have one in the junk-bins.
I'll refer the interested readers to the fuseholder
pictures at:
http://tinyurl.com/7sguf9t
The ATC_on_a_Bracket series shows what I discovered
when I ground off the "inert" meat on the fuse holders
I have on hand. This exploration revealed that for this
particular device, there was .400" of inert plastic on
butt side of the fuse holder.
A few minutes work in the shop produced a bracket and
attach method that solved the problem du jour. Thought
I'd add it to the shared AeroElectric bag of tricks . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Chevy Volt electrics |
All is explained at: <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/138053>
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/138053
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Roger;
According to Microsoft, this problem arises (automatic conversion to
.dat files) when you try to send e-mails in =9Crich text
format=9D. Their solution is to use either =9Cplain text
format=9D or =9CHTML format=9D. Different versions of
Windows and Outlook make these selections differently, but on my
combination there is a selection box on the toolbar where the
=9Csend=9D button is located which allows me to make that
distinction. Your e-mails have always looked different than everyone
else=99s on my computer and this may be why. In typing this
response my computer automatically selected =9Crich text=9D
because that is the format of your original. That would seem to lend
credence to Microsoft=99s explanation. I=99ve changed this
reply manually to =9CHTML=9D because that=99s what I
normally use for e-mail.
Bob McC
Thanks Rob & Bob,
I will start using only HTML! Not sure why I got into the habit of
using Rich Text but if changing to HTML will solve the problem,
I=99m all for it. =98=BA =98=BA
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ATC on a bracket |
| From: | Matt Prather <mapratherid(at)gmail.com> |
That's great Bob!
I have a project where this will be perfect..
Thanks,
Matt-
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
>
>
> On several occasions, like today, I've wanted to
> incorporate a hard-mounted ATC fuse into a chassis
> assembly. There are probably surface mounted holders
> out there . . . just didn't have one in the junk-bins.
>
> I'll refer the interested readers to the fuseholder
> pictures at:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/7sguf9t
>
> The ATC_on_a_Bracket series shows what I discovered
> when I ground off the "inert" meat on the fuse holders
> I have on hand. This exploration revealed that for this
> particular device, there was .400" of inert plastic on
> butt side of the fuse holder.
>
> A few minutes work in the shop produced a bracket and
> attach method that solved the problem du jour. Thought
> I'd add it to the shared AeroElectric bag of tricks . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | ATC on a bracket |
The ATC_on_a_Bracket series shows what I discovered
when I ground off the "inert" meat on the fuse holders
I have on hand. This exploration revealed that for this
particular device, there was .400" of inert plastic on
butt side of the fuse holder.
A few minutes work in the shop produced a bracket and
attach method that solved the problem du jour. Thought
I'd add it to the shared AeroElectric bag of tricks . . .
Bob . . .
Interesting! Looks like this could be a rather useful discovery.
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | ATC on a bracket |
At 02:19 PM 5/11/2012, you wrote:
Interesting! Looks like this could be a rather useful discovery.
Roger
Not all holders have that much free plastic and you'll
want to sand away the proposed mounting meat to make
sure no fuse wiring extends into the boss.
I considered just bonding this holder to the bracket but
wasn't sure about storage temperature extremes. Decided
to bond it to fixture and then re-enforce the bond
with screws.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy Volt electrics |
The better choice for most email is plain text. Every email program
handles it cleanly, the file size is kept to a minimum. Many listservs
will automatically strip HTML from a message, leaving you shooting blanks.
On 5/11/2012 12:05 PM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS wrote:
>
> All is explained at: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/138053
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
>
> *Roger;*
>
> **
>
> *According to Microsoft, this problem arises (automatic conversion to
> .dat files) when you try to send e-mails in rich text format. Their
> solution is to use either plain text format or HTML format.
> Different versions of Windows and Outlook make these selections
> differently, but on my combination there is a selection box on the
> toolbar where the send button is located which allows me to make
> that distinction. Your e-mails have always looked different than
> everyone elses on my computer and this may be why. In typing this
> response my computer automatically selected rich text because that
> is the format of your original. That would seem to lend credence to
> Microsofts explanation. Ive changed this reply manually to HTML
> because thats what I normally use for e-mail.*
>
> **
>
> *Bob McC*
>
> **
> Thanks Rob& Bob,
>
> I will start using only HTML! Not sure why I got into the habit of using Rich
Text but if changing to HTML will solve the problem, Im all for it.
>
> Roger
> *
>
>
> *
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Millner <millner(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | connect 1-5 volt fuel level sender to legacy type fuel |
gage
Hi Bob,
I'm toying with the idea of installing Electronics International's new
magnetic fuel level senders, that output 1-5 volts from empty to full,
to interface with a JPI 930 or similar.
However, I'd like to continue to make the legacy 12 volt Wheatstone
bridge style needle gage work...
I've been puzzling over how to fool the legacy gage into thinking it's
seeing a resistance, comparable to the stock potentiometer fuel level
sender, via a conversion circuit that's looking at my new senders' 1-5
volt output in parallel to the JPI monitor.
I'm filling the paper with voltage sources and current sources, but I'm
not sure I'm getting much closer to a circuit design... seems like it
shouldn't be hard for someone with at least a little insight, but so far
I'm not bringing that insight to bear.
Thoughts?
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | ATC on a bracket |
I suppose if you used wood or metal screws you would not need a nut to
secure the bracket to the ATC holder?
B2
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ATC on a bracket
On several occasions, like today, I've wanted to
incorporate a hard-mounted ATC fuse into a chassis
assembly. There are probably surface mounted holders
out there . . . just didn't have one in the junk-bins.
I'll refer the interested readers to the fuseholder
pictures at:
http://tinyurl.com/7sguf9t
The ATC_on_a_Bracket series shows what I discovered
when I ground off the "inert" meat on the fuse holders
I have on hand. This exploration revealed that for this
particular device, there was .400" of inert plastic on
butt side of the fuse holder.
A few minutes work in the shop produced a bracket and
attach method that solved the problem du jour. Thought
I'd add it to the shared AeroElectric bag of tricks . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thorne" <rv7a(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Quit on Takeoff |
OK I need some help on where to start looking. Sorry for a long post
but don't know how to say it without leaving important stuff out. About
a month ago I lost power on takeoff. It didn't quit completely so
thanks to some throttle blips and altitude I made the "impossible turn"
and got the plane back on the ground and taxied normally to the hangar.
First we checked the fuel system, doing fuel flows every conceivable way
we knew how. Even tied the tail down and ran one in a "climb out
attitude". All flows seemed to be normal.
The next thing was to download the Dynon data log. In looking that over
it became apparent at the time of the incident I was producing 62 Amps
and 20+ Volts. This would last for a few seconds and drop to a more
normal range then spike again it did it several times. It appeared that
the spikes were when the engine wasn't running.
The next was checking the P and E mags. Brad after hearing my story
suggested I send them in. They found the circuit board in the P-Mag
wasn't reliable. Both mags had been subjected to very high temps,
according to Brad this could have been from the engine oil temp or the
high amperage. I learned that I had the blast tubes aimed incorrectly.
They have been rebuilt and are now both P-Mags.
The alternator, Van's Nippon Denso, was bench checked twice by two
separate shops. Everything was normal.
The plane was reassembled and test run. Everything seemed normal until
I ran high RPM, 2000+. As soon as the RPMs climbed the Dynon showed the
amps climbed right up to 60 and voltage up to 20. The engine kept
running on the ground but to say the least I am not enthusiastic trying
to fly it with these same conditions.
Where do I go from here?
Jim Thorne
RV7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Quit on Takeoff |
At 07:28 PM 5/11/2012, you wrote:
OK I need some help on where to start looking. Sorry for a long post
but don't know how to say it without leaving important stuff
out. About a month ago I lost power on takeoff. It didn't quit
completely so thanks to some throttle blips and altitude I made the
"impossible turn" and got the plane back on the ground and taxied
normally to the hangar.
First we checked the fuel system, doing fuel flows every conceivable
way we knew how. Even tied the tail down and ran one in a "climb out
attitude". All flows seemed to be normal.
The next thing was to download the Dynon data log. In looking that
over it became apparent at the time of the incident I was producing
62 Amps and 20+ Volts. This would last for a few seconds and drop to
a more normal range then spike again it did it several times. It
appeared that the spikes were when the engine wasn't running.
The next was checking the P and E mags. Brad after hearing my story
suggested I send them in. They found the circuit board in the P-Mag
wasn't reliable. Both mags had been subjected to very high temps,
according to Brad this could have been from the engine oil temp or
the high amperage. I learned that I had the blast tubes aimed
incorrectly. They have been rebuilt and are now both P-Mags.
The alternator, Van's Nippon Denso, was bench checked twice by two
separate shops. Everything was normal.
The plane was reassembled and test run. Everything seemed normal
until I ran high RPM, 2000+. As soon as the RPMs climbed the Dynon
showed the amps climbed right up to 60 and voltage up to 20. The
engine kept running on the ground but to say the least I am not
enthusiastic trying to fly it with these same conditions.
Where do I go from here?
Jim Thorne
The alternator was in uncontrolled runaway and
you apparently don't have over-voltage
protection system installed. The last time
we were discussing Van's alternators, they
were internally regulated machines.
At a minimum, have the regulator replaced.
If you're going to have the alternator
opened up by a competent local shop, you
might see if they would modify it for external
regulation which is more builder friendly
for addition of ov protection and any-time,
any-conditions on/off control from the cockpit.
What you have experienced is a relatively rare
event . . . but the risks are not zero. This is
why legacy alternator installations in TC aircraft
have been externally regulated and fitted with
ov protection almost since day-one.
The first alternator installations on Cessnas
did not have ov protection . . . but we quickly
learned.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | ATC on a bracket |
At 04:06 PM 5/11/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>I suppose if you used wood or metal screws you would not need a nut to
>secure the bracket to the ATC holder?
>
>B2
The holder body is solid plastic. I suppose you
could use self tapping screws in the plastic . . .
but machine nuts on a screw are much more secure.
You can thread-lock them with super glue.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: connect 1-5 volt fuel level sender to legacy |
type fuel gage
At 03:48 PM 5/11/2012, you wrote:
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I'm toying with the idea of installing Electronics International's
>new magnetic fuel level senders, that output 1-5 volts from empty to
>full, to interface with a JPI 930 or similar.
>
>However, I'd like to continue to make the legacy 12 volt Wheatstone
>bridge style needle gage work...
What are the characteristics of the instrument?
Current full scale? It's pretty easy to craft
an op-amp signal conditioner that will apply the
necessary gain and offset to spread the 1-5 volt
signal over the legacy instrument's scale.
These tend to be 'beefy' instruments of perhaps
10 ma full scale. The signal conditioner would have
to be vetted for this much sink or source current.
If you can get full scale current value for me
along with the old resistance sender's empty-full
span I can sketch a circuit and propose parts.
On way to do it in the airplane is hook a rheostat
up to emulate the old sender. Adjust the rheostat
first for FULL indication, measure voltage across
the rheostat before disconnecting it to measure
its resistance. Repeat for 1/2 and empty. The
only reason you need reading at 1/2 is to verify
that the instrument is reasonably linear.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | ATC on a bracket |
90 degree difference in orientation, but another option is:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SZ2046
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | ATC on a bracket |
Thanks Stu, and these have the added benefit of not having to splice into
pre-assembled PVC lead wires.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Hutchison
> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 12:09 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ATC on a bracket
>
> 90 degree difference in orientation, but another option is:
> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SZ2046
>
> Kind regards, Stu
>
> F1 Rocket VH-FLY http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
> www.teamrocketaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John MacCallum" <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Quit on Takeoff |
Yes it would seem you had an over voltage. My Vans supplied Plane Power Alt
has an over Voltage crowbar built in.
If there was a crowbar and the crow bar functioned in your case it could
have taken the Buss voltage low. I'm unsure if the Nippon Denso
You mention has this feature or not.
If the Buss voltage did go low after the over volt event then it would have
killed the ignition on the E mag. The P mag
Should keep functioning in this case since it has it's own power supply. I
don't understand why the P mag should have been
Damaged by high amperage or high oil temp. If the Oil temp went high enough
to damage the Mag then the whole engine
Would be suspect.
Looking through the circuit diagram for a E Mag P model if the Buss Voltage
goes low it will pull Pin 5 below 12 Volts.
There should be an internal diode to stop that causing P mag to shut down.
Maybe this is why they said the Circuit board
Was un reliable.
These types of failure modes is why I chose to stay with a standard
Magnetos.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV 10 #41016
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Engine Quit on Takeoff
-->
At 07:28 PM 5/11/2012, you wrote:
OK I need some help on where to start looking. Sorry for a long post but
don't know how to say it without leaving important stuff out. About a month
ago I lost power on takeoff. It didn't quit completely so thanks to some
throttle blips and altitude I made the "impossible turn" and got the plane
back on the ground and taxied normally to the hangar.
First we checked the fuel system, doing fuel flows every conceivable way we
knew how. Even tied the tail down and ran one in a "climb out attitude".
All flows seemed to be normal.
The next thing was to download the Dynon data log. In looking that over it
became apparent at the time of the incident I was producing
62 Amps and 20+ Volts. This would last for a few seconds and drop to a more
normal range then spike again it did it several times. It appeared that the
spikes were when the engine wasn't running.
The next was checking the P and E mags. Brad after hearing my story
suggested I send them in. They found the circuit board in the P-Mag wasn't
reliable. Both mags had been subjected to very high temps, according to
Brad this could have been from the engine oil temp or the high amperage. I
learned that I had the blast tubes aimed incorrectly. They have been rebuilt
and are now both P-Mags.
The alternator, Van's Nippon Denso, was bench checked twice by two separate
shops. Everything was normal.
The plane was reassembled and test run. Everything seemed normal until I
ran high RPM, 2000+. As soon as the RPMs climbed the Dynon showed the amps
climbed right up to 60 and voltage up to 20. The engine kept running on the
ground but to say the least I am not enthusiastic trying to fly it with
these same conditions.
Where do I go from here?
Jim Thorne
The alternator was in uncontrolled runaway and
you apparently don't have over-voltage
protection system installed. The last time
we were discussing Van's alternators, they
were internally regulated machines.
At a minimum, have the regulator replaced.
If you're going to have the alternator
opened up by a competent local shop, you
might see if they would modify it for external
regulation which is more builder friendly
for addition of ov protection and any-time,
any-conditions on/off control from the cockpit.
What you have experienced is a relatively rare
event . . . but the risks are not zero. This is
why legacy alternator installations in TC aircraft
have been externally regulated and fitted with
ov protection almost since day-one.
The first alternator installations on Cessnas
did not have ov protection . . . but we quickly
learned.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Quit on Takeoff |
At 04:43 AM 5/12/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>If there was a crowbar and the crow bar functioned in your case it could
>have taken the Buss voltage low. I'm unsure if the Nippon Denso
>You mention has this feature or not.
If it's a stock ND model, no such ov protections
will exist. If it did exist, the operation of ov
protection would only bring the alternator under
to heal by shutting it off. Bus voltage would then
fall to battery voltage . . . on the order of 12.5
volts, whereupon flight could be continued battery-
only.
>If the Buss voltage did go low after the over volt event then it would have
>killed the ignition on the E mag.
"Low" in non quantified in the event narrative.
There's no indication that low refers to anything
less than battery-only bus voltages which are
quite sufficient to keep the engine's fires
lit.
>I don't understand why the P mag should have been
>Damaged by high amperage or high oil temp. If the Oil temp went high enough
>to damage the Mag then the whole engine would be suspect.
High amperage was a manifestation, not a cause.
Runaway alternators boost system voltage to levels
mitigated only by system loads and ability/willingness
of the battery to soak up excess energy. The
fact that 'high amperage' was displayed on the
instrumentation only serves to confirm the
fact that bus voltage is being pushed by
the alternator to 20+ volts and is still
rising.
>Looking through the circuit diagram for a E Mag P model if the Buss Voltage
>goes low it will pull Pin 5 below 12 Volts. There should be an internal
>diode to stop that causing P mag to shut down. Maybe this is why they said
>the Circuit board was un reliable.
>
>These types of failure modes is why I chose to stay with a standard
>Magnetos.
These types of failures happen only when the
system suffers from lack of attention to
demonstrable risk. Without ov protection,
it's not just your electronic ignitions that
are at risk, every electro-whizzy in the
airplane is at risk. Justifying magnetos
as a hedge against ignition failure due to
alternator runaway is only a part of the
story.
Ov protection has been a staple feature
of alternator systems on TC aircraft for
over 40 years and continues to this day.
This narrative does raise questions about
the engine failure. I'll get in touch with
my friends at Emagair and explore the details
with them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Quit on Takeoff |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
An intermittent problem is a characteristic of a loose or corroded connection.
If the alternator has an external voltage sense wire, then corrosion or a loose
connection could make the internal voltage regulator think that the the system
voltage is low even though it is not. Then the voltage regulator would try
to increase the system voltage by increasing the alternator field current, resulting
in an over-voltage condition.
If it is not desired to convert from an internal to an external voltage regulator,
then it would still be worthwhile to add an external over-voltage protection
circuit. Although an external O.V. circuit would tell the alternator to
shut off, a runaway internal voltage regulator could ignore the command, unlikely
but possible depending on the failure mode.
There have been discussions on AeroElectric about the probability of an internal
voltage regulator failing. Although failure is unlikely, if it happens, it
could be expensive or even life threatening in the case of electrically dependent
engine or instruments.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372907#372907
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Quit on Takeoff |
Jim,
What have you checked in the fuel system..!
During a climb out one is usually pitched at a higher angle and if any
foreign stuff is in the tank(s) it may have plugged the outlet enough
that fuel flow would not have been enough under 100% power, but, still
keep the engine blipping with some fuel. Such things as a
disintegrating shop rag, sealant coming loose, etc., etc.
The oddest we ever saw was micro fibers leaching off the inside of
fiberglass gas tanks. The fine fibers were getting thru the filters and
plugging up fuel flow downstream.
Dave
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Thorne
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:28 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Engine Quit on Takeoff
OK I need some help on where to start looking. Sorry for a long post
but don't know how to say it without leaving important stuff out. About
a month ago I lost power on takeoff. It didn't quit completely so
thanks to some throttle blips and altitude I made the "impossible turn"
and got the plane back on the ground and taxied normally to the hangar.
First we checked the fuel system, doing fuel flows every conceivable
way we knew how. Even tied the tail down and ran one in a "climb out
attitude". All flows seemed to be normal.
The next thing was to download the Dynon data log. In looking that
over it became apparent at the time of the incident I was producing 62
Amps and 20+ Volts. This would last for a few seconds and drop to a
more normal range then spike again it did it several times. It appeared
that the spikes were when the engine wasn't running.
The next was checking the P and E mags. Brad after hearing my story
suggested I send them in. They found the circuit board in the P-Mag
wasn't reliable. Both mags had been subjected to very high temps,
according to Brad this could have been from the engine oil temp or the
high amperage. I learned that I had the blast tubes aimed incorrectly.
They have been rebuilt and are now both P-Mags.
The alternator, Van's Nippon Denso, was bench checked twice by two
separate shops. Everything was normal.
The plane was reassembled and test run. Everything seemed normal
until I ran high RPM, 2000+. As soon as the RPMs climbed the Dynon
showed the amps climbed right up to 60 and voltage up to 20. The engine
kept running on the ground but to say the least I am not enthusiastic
trying to fly it with these same conditions.
Where do I go from here?
Jim Thorne
RV7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Intermittent no radio reception |
I had a problem with my radio reception today and I am not certain where to
look for the cause. I was flying and the radio was working fine. I was
listening to Approach while I flew around and I could hear them fine. I
decide to land, so I dialed in ATIS. I didn't get anything. I noticed that
I didn't have the "RX" showing on the radio. At the time I was about 25
miles away and 2K feet. I thought maybe I was too low and far away,
although I had been listening to Approach when I dialed in ATIS. As I got
closer, I climbed a little and suddenly I could hear them so I didn't think
much more about it. But I am pretty sure that I should have been able to
hear them because I could almost see the airport from where I was.
After I contacted approach and was handed off to Sanford tower, I didn't
hear from the tower for several minutes, then they asked me "how do you
hear?". I replied "Fine". I didn't think much more about that incident
either, but after I got home, I listened to the tower archives and I found
that the tower had asked me 4 times how do you hear and I only heard the
last one.
This makes me feel that I have some kind of intermittent problem with
receive. Everything else was working on the radio that I know of. It seems
to be just an intermittent receive problem. Do you have any ideas where I
should look for something like that?
I have this type of antenna.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php
It does not have a ground plane as it is a half wave antenna. The one I
have it the 5T which allows the coax to come out and be supported on the
side of the fuselage with mounting brackets. The antenna is inside the
fuselage just behind the rear bulkhead on the Lancair Legacy. It is mostly
vertical, but the ends (top and bottom) curve following the shape of the
fuselage and become horizontal for the last 4-5 inches. I think the antenna
is something like 41-42 inches long. My plane is all fiberglass. The only
carbon fiber is in the horizontal stabilizer, leg fairings, and the wheel
pants. None of this carbon is closer than three feet or so to the antenna.
But what ever this is, it is intermittent. The receive and transmit seem to
work fine until they don't work at all. I have heard others tell me that my
transmissions were staticy from time to time, which is why I have been
trying to hear myself by listening to the recordings from ATC. If I had not
done that I would not even have known that I missed 3 radio calls from ATC.
I was probably close to 5-6 miles out and heading directly toward the
airport when I was missing the calls.
Also, unrelated, I noticed that if I am on autopilot, (TruTrak Digiflight II
GPSVG) that the autopilot goes haywire when the radio transmits. I have
heard of this problem on the internet but have not looked up what may be
causing it. Maybe you know off the top of your head??
Thanks for all you guys help!
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Millner <millner(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Re: connect 1-5 volt fuel level sender to legacy |
type fuel gage
>> What are the characteristics of the instrument?
The existing fuel level transmitter/probe is ~200 ohms at empty and less
than 10 ohms at full. I'll check current. The tank characteristic is
fairly nonlinear, which is reflected in the non-linearity of the gage
markings. The JPI gage works via a look-up table, so it should be OK...
I guess we could get fancy and linearize the legacy gage, but then the
analog gage would require remarking. Note that even though the existing
gage in marked non-linearly, it's not accurately so... the 1/4 full mark
is about 1/3 of the way up the scale, and actually represents about 1/3
full on the 30 gallon wing tank. But I've become accustomed to that
over time. :-)
Current full scale?
I will ascertain!~
>> It's pretty easy to craft an op-amp signal conditioner that will
apply the necessary gain and offset to spread the 1-5 volt signal over
the legacy instrument's scale.
So... would the old fuel gage continue in service as originally
constructed, sending a voltage to the op amp circuit which would be
'resisted' appropriately to fool the gage into thinking it's seeing the
resistance fuel level transmitter/probe? Or would we have to modify the
conformal coated (!) circuit board on the back of the gage that has
power, ground, light and fuel tank inputs?
>> These tend to be 'beefy' instruments of perhaps 10 ma full scale.
That's a relief... I was wondering how many Joules were being dissipated
inside the vapor space of the fuel tank.
>>The signal conditioner would have to be vetted for this much sink or
source current.
Heat sinks are us...
>> If you can get full scale current value for me along with the old
resistance sender's empty-full span I can sketch a circuit and propose
parts.
I'm on it! Mom's 89 and in the hospital (fell on her birthday last
week), so time's a little limited for visiting the airport. So if I
don't have numbers for a couple of weeks, it's NOT from lack of
interest, but rather competing priorities. Meeting with the geriatric
care RN on Tuesday to explore 'options' for where she lives, etc.
Moving will be challenging in many respects after 30 years in the same
house, if that comes to be necessary.
>> On way to do it in the airplane is hook a rheostat up to emulate the
old sender. Adjust the rheostat first for FULL indication, measure
voltage across the rheostat before disconnecting it to measure its
resistance. Repeat for 1/2 and empty.
Got it!
>> The only reason you need reading at 1/2 is to verify that the
instrument is reasonably linear.
It's not linear, but whether unreasonably so or not remains a topic of
speculation and debate.
Thanks for the action plan and assistance!
Paul
--
Please note my new email address!
millner(at)me.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Millner <millner(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Quit on Takeoff |
On 5/12/2012 7:36 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Ov protection has been a staple feature
> of alternator systems on TC aircraft for
> over 40 years and continues to this day.
Pretty close to precisely forty years for Cessna singles... added in the
'72 model year. :-)
Paul
--
Please note my new email address!
millner(at)me.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Cessna Alternator OV protection |
At 01:31 PM 5/12/2012, you wrote:
>On 5/12/2012 7:36 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>Ov protection has been a staple feature
>of alternator systems on TC aircraft for
>over 40 years and continues to this day.
Pretty close to precisely forty years for Cessna singles... added in
the '72 model year.
That sounds right. I was in the right seat of Ken Razak's
station wagon and he was driving us toward Hornbeak
TN for field tests on a truck accident that occurred
just west of there. I was sketching various options
for the lowest parts-count ov trip circuit to go between
the field control switch and the regulator's field relay.
I had joined Ken full time several years earlier
in '69 but still had a lot of conversation with the guys
at the Cessna Pawnee Street Plant (SE models).
Somewhere in southern Missouri I settled on the
circuit at:
http://tinyurl.com/7g7mn6l
When we got back to the shop several days later,
I brassboarded the circuit and tested it in a
cardboard box "environmental chamber" using
dry ice and/or a 100W lightbulb to get the
temperatures I wanted. Satisfied with the stability,
I took the circuit out to Cessna. The head electron-
herder (who shall remain nameless) decided that it
"wasn't what he was looking for." But a few months
later, Hopkins Mfg in Emporia began supplying the
"three-fuse firecracker" to the Pawnee Plant aircraft.
That was the first . . . and last outside
work I did for Cessna S.E. plant. Beech turned out
to be a whole lot nicer to work with!
That field trip was something of a milestone. This
was the first time we built some speed distance
measurement equipment synchronized to a pair of
DIY motor drive cameras to record truck dynamics
driving over the same course as the accident.
S/D data was radioed from the truck to a receiver
in the back of the station wagon. The radios were
salvaged from a 2 meter repeater project. The
cameras were 35mm Leicas that had nice cylindrical
film wind knobs I could drive with rubber band belts.
Data was displayed on nixie tubes and photographed.
http://tinyurl.com/7252gx6
http://tinyurl.com/84cxusk
Even built my own photo-detectors to count the
slots in the S/D wheel.
An the head cheese electron-herder probably never
did come to understand why I left Cessna!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | ATC on a bracket |
That's a great idea- you could also cut away the little circular bits on the
side and gang the fuses in a row...
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: 11 May 2012 09:48 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ATC on a bracket
At 02:19 PM 5/11/2012, you wrote:
Interesting! Looks like this could be a rather useful discovery.
Roger
Not all holders have that much free plastic and you'll
want to sand away the proposed mounting meat to make
sure no fuse wiring extends into the boss.
I considered just bonding this holder to the bracket but
wasn't sure about storage temperature extremes. Decided
to bond it to fixture and then re-enforce the bond
with screws.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bakerocb" <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Intermittent no radio reception |
5/13/2012
Hello Bill Bradbury, You wrote: "This makes me feel that I have some kind of
intermittent problem with receive."
Are you absolutely certain that you don't have an intermittent wire
connection problem in your headset?
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
=============================================================
From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent no radio reception
I had a problem with my radio reception today and I am not certain where to
look for the cause. I was flying and the radio was working fine. I was
listening to Approach while I flew around and I could hear them fine. I
decide to land, so I dialed in ATIS. I didn't get anything. I noticed that
I didn't have the "RX" showing on the radio. At the time I was about 25
miles away and 2K feet. I thought maybe I was too low and far away,
although I had been listening to Approach when I dialed in ATIS. As I got
closer, I climbed a little and suddenly I could hear them so I didn't think
much more about it. But I am pretty sure that I should have been able to
hear them because I could almost see the airport from where I was.
After I contacted approach and was handed off to Sanford tower, I didn't
hear from the tower for several minutes, then they asked me "how do you
hear?". I replied "Fine". I didn't think much more about that incident
either, but after I got home, I listened to the tower archives and I found
that the tower had asked me 4 times how do you hear and I only heard the
last one.
This makes me feel that I have some kind of intermittent problem with
receive. Everything else was working on the radio that I know of. It seems
to be just an intermittent receive problem. Do you have any ideas where I
should look for something like that?
I have this type of antenna.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php
It does not have a ground plane as it is a half wave antenna. The one I
have it the 5T which allows the coax to come out and be supported on the
side of the fuselage with mounting brackets. The antenna is inside the
fuselage just behind the rear bulkhead on the Lancair Legacy. It is mostly
vertical, but the ends (top and bottom) curve following the shape of the
fuselage and become horizontal for the last 4-5 inches. I think the antenna
is something like 41-42 inches long. My plane is all fiberglass. The only
carbon fiber is in the horizontal stabilizer, leg fairings, and the wheel
pants. None of this carbon is closer than three feet or so to the antenna.
But what ever this is, it is intermittent. The receive and transmit seem to
work fine until they don't work at all. I have heard others tell me that my
transmissions were staticy from time to time, which is why I have been
trying to hear myself by listening to the recordings from ATC. If I had not
done that I would not even have known that I missed 3 radio calls from ATC.
I was probably close to 5-6 miles out and heading directly toward the
airport when I was missing the calls.
Also, unrelated, I noticed that if I am on autopilot, (TruTrak Digiflight II
GPSVG) that the autopilot goes haywire when the radio transmits. I have
heard of this problem on the internet but have not looked up what may be
causing it. Maybe you know off the top of your head??
Thanks for all you guys help!
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Intermittent no radio reception |
OC,
No I don't know if the headset is the problem, but it is a Lightspeed Mach 1
that I have had for less than a year. I could try and move wires around to
see if I can duplicate the problem.
B2
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:28 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent no radio reception
5/13/2012
Hello Bill Bradbury, You wrote: "This makes me feel that I have some kind of
intermittent problem with receive."
Are you absolutely certain that you don't have an intermittent wire
connection problem in your headset?
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
=============================================================
From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent no radio reception
I had a problem with my radio reception today and I am not certain where to
look for the cause. I was flying and the radio was working fine. I was
listening to Approach while I flew around and I could hear them fine. I
decide to land, so I dialed in ATIS. I didn't get anything. I noticed that
I didn't have the "RX" showing on the radio. At the time I was about 25
miles away and 2K feet. I thought maybe I was too low and far away,
although I had been listening to Approach when I dialed in ATIS. As I got
closer, I climbed a little and suddenly I could hear them so I didn't think
much more about it. But I am pretty sure that I should have been able to
hear them because I could almost see the airport from where I was.
After I contacted approach and was handed off to Sanford tower, I didn't
hear from the tower for several minutes, then they asked me "how do you
hear?". I replied "Fine". I didn't think much more about that incident
either, but after I got home, I listened to the tower archives and I found
that the tower had asked me 4 times how do you hear and I only heard the
last one.
This makes me feel that I have some kind of intermittent problem with
receive. Everything else was working on the radio that I know of. It seems
to be just an intermittent receive problem. Do you have any ideas where I
should look for something like that?
I have this type of antenna.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php
It does not have a ground plane as it is a half wave antenna. The one I
have it the 5T which allows the coax to come out and be supported on the
side of the fuselage with mounting brackets. The antenna is inside the
fuselage just behind the rear bulkhead on the Lancair Legacy. It is mostly
vertical, but the ends (top and bottom) curve following the shape of the
fuselage and become horizontal for the last 4-5 inches. I think the antenna
is something like 41-42 inches long. My plane is all fiberglass. The only
carbon fiber is in the horizontal stabilizer, leg fairings, and the wheel
pants. None of this carbon is closer than three feet or so to the antenna.
But what ever this is, it is intermittent. The receive and transmit seem to
work fine until they don't work at all. I have heard others tell me that my
transmissions were staticy from time to time, which is why I have been
trying to hear myself by listening to the recordings from ATC. If I had not
done that I would not even have known that I missed 3 radio calls from ATC.
I was probably close to 5-6 miles out and heading directly toward the
airport when I was missing the calls.
Also, unrelated, I noticed that if I am on autopilot, (TruTrak Digiflight II
GPSVG) that the autopilot goes haywire when the radio transmits. I have
heard of this problem on the internet but have not looked up what may be
causing it. Maybe you know off the top of your head??
Thanks for all you guys help!
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Intermittent no radio reception |
Squelch set too high?
Ed Holyoke
On 5/12/2012 9:15 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Bradburry"
>
> I had a problem with my radio reception today and I am not certain where to
> look for the cause. I was flying and the radio was working fine. I was
> listening to Approach while I flew around and I could hear them fine. I
> decide to land, so I dialed in ATIS. I didn't get anything. I noticed that
> I didn't have the "RX" showing on the radio. At the time I was about 25
> miles away and 2K feet. I thought maybe I was too low and far away,
> although I had been listening to Approach when I dialed in ATIS. As I got
> closer, I climbed a little and suddenly I could hear them so I didn't think
> much more about it. But I am pretty sure that I should have been able to
> hear them because I could almost see the airport from where I was.
>
> After I contacted approach and was handed off to Sanford tower, I didn't
> hear from the tower for several minutes, then they asked me "how do you
> hear?". I replied "Fine". I didn't think much more about that incident
> either, but after I got home, I listened to the tower archives and I found
> that the tower had asked me 4 times how do you hear and I only heard the
> last one.
>
> This makes me feel that I have some kind of intermittent problem with
> receive. Everything else was working on the radio that I know of. It seems
> to be just an intermittent receive problem. Do you have any ideas where I
> should look for something like that?
>
> I have this type of antenna.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php
>
> It does not have a ground plane as it is a half wave antenna. The one I
> have it the 5T which allows the coax to come out and be supported on the
> side of the fuselage with mounting brackets. The antenna is inside the
> fuselage just behind the rear bulkhead on the Lancair Legacy. It is mostly
> vertical, but the ends (top and bottom) curve following the shape of the
> fuselage and become horizontal for the last 4-5 inches. I think the antenna
> is something like 41-42 inches long. My plane is all fiberglass. The only
> carbon fiber is in the horizontal stabilizer, leg fairings, and the wheel
> pants. None of this carbon is closer than three feet or so to the antenna.
>
> But what ever this is, it is intermittent. The receive and transmit seem to
> work fine until they don't work at all. I have heard others tell me that my
> transmissions were staticy from time to time, which is why I have been
> trying to hear myself by listening to the recordings from ATC. If I had not
> done that I would not even have known that I missed 3 radio calls from ATC.
> I was probably close to 5-6 miles out and heading directly toward the
> airport when I was missing the calls.
>
> Also, unrelated, I noticed that if I am on autopilot, (TruTrak Digiflight II
> GPSVG) that the autopilot goes haywire when the radio transmits. I have
> heard of this problem on the internet but have not looked up what may be
> causing it. Maybe you know off the top of your head??
>
> Thanks for all you guys help!
>
> Bill B
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Wildman" <dick(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | SSF-1 WIG WAG Flasher |
I built my RV using a B&C SSF-1 wig wag. Wired it per Aeroelectric
recommendations and it worked fine.
I changed one light to a Xenon lamp using a Philips Xen Drive XLD912
Standard power supply. This does not load the SSF-1 flasher as required
so my wig wag no longer works. I would like to keep the Xenon on one
side and the incandescent lamp on the other. I would be happy with
flashing one lamp if not both.
Any solutions?
Dick Wildman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SSF-1 WIG WAG Flasher |
Dick,
If you truly would be satisfied with flashing one lamp and if you have enough
power budget for the additional current the Xenon lamp requires and if you don't
mind a little re-wiring, you could substitute a power resistor for the
incandescent lamp that was removed. The resistor will keep the flasher happy.
Think of it as a non-illuminating lamp :-)
Assuming you're using a 55W lamp at 14V, you would need 3.6 ohms capable of
dissipating 55 watts half of the time (50% duty cycle). A couple of 10-ohm,
20-watt resistors in parallel should be close enough to fool the flasher and if
not, add a third one. FYI, those resistors will get very hot; don't put then in
your lighting switch panel.
My wig-wag uses an electro-mechanical flasher too and this is what I plan to do
when I upgrade my lights unless I spring for a new (solid-state) flasher. But
that's not going to happen until after the airplane's flying .
--
Joe
Independence, OR
http://www.mail2600.com/cgi-bin/webcam.cgi
Dick Wildman wrote:
> I built my RV using a B&C SSF-1 wig wag. Wired it per Aeroelectric recommendations
and it worked fine.
>
> I changed one light to a Xenon lamp using a Philips Xen Drive XLD912 Standard
power supply. This does not load the SSF-1 flasher as required so my wig wag
no longer works. I would like to keep the Xenon on one side and the incandescent
lamp on the other. I would be happy with flashing one lamp if not both.
>
> Any solutions?
>
> Dick Wildman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Intermittent no radio reception |
Ed,
I don't think so. I didn't change it between the works and don't work
phases.??
Bill
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed
Holyoke
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent no radio reception
Squelch set too high?
Ed Holyoke
On 5/12/2012 9:15 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote:
I had a problem with my radio reception today and I am not certain where to
look for the cause. I was flying and the radio was working fine. I was
listening to Approach while I flew around and I could hear them fine. I
decide to land, so I dialed in ATIS. I didn't get anything. I noticed that
I didn't have the "RX" showing on the radio. At the time I was about 25
miles away and 2K feet. I thought maybe I was too low and far away,
although I had been listening to Approach when I dialed in ATIS. As I got
closer, I climbed a little and suddenly I could hear them so I didn't think
much more about it. But I am pretty sure that I should have been able to
hear them because I could almost see the airport from where I was.
After I contacted approach and was handed off to Sanford tower, I didn't
hear from the tower for several minutes, then they asked me "how do you
hear?". I replied "Fine". I didn't think much more about that incident
either, but after I got home, I listened to the tower archives and I found
that the tower had asked me 4 times how do you hear and I only heard the
last one.
This makes me feel that I have some kind of intermittent problem with
receive. Everything else was working on the radio that I know of. It seems
to be just an intermittent receive problem. Do you have any ideas where I
should look for something like that?
I have this type of antenna.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php
It does not have a ground plane as it is a half wave antenna. The one I
have it the 5T which allows the coax to come out and be supported on the
side of the fuselage with mounting brackets. The antenna is inside the
fuselage just behind the rear bulkhead on the Lancair Legacy. It is mostly
vertical, but the ends (top and bottom) curve following the shape of the
fuselage and become horizontal for the last 4-5 inches. I think the antenna
is something like 41-42 inches long. My plane is all fiberglass. The only
carbon fiber is in the horizontal stabilizer, leg fairings, and the wheel
pants. None of this carbon is closer than three feet or so to the antenna.
But what ever this is, it is intermittent. The receive and transmit seem to
work fine until they don't work at all. I have heard others tell me that my
transmissions were staticy from time to time, which is why I have been
trying to hear myself by listening to the recordings from ATC. If I had not
done that I would not even have known that I missed 3 radio calls from ATC.
I was probably close to 5-6 miles out and heading directly toward the
airport when I was missing the calls.
Also, unrelated, I noticed that if I am on autopilot, (TruTrak Digiflight II
GPSVG) that the autopilot goes haywire when the radio transmits. I have
heard of this problem on the internet but have not looked up what may be
causing it. Maybe you know off the top of your head??
Thanks for all you guys help!
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Intermittent no radio reception |
Ed,
...good suggestion..as if that has never happened to all of us.
Especially when the plane comes out of some work at an avionics shop.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Holyoke
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent no radio reception
Squelch set too high?
Ed Holyoke
On 5/12/2012 9:15 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote:
I had a problem with my radio reception today and I am not certain where
to
look for the cause. I was flying and the radio was working fine. I was
listening to Approach while I flew around and I could hear them fine. I
decide to land, so I dialed in ATIS. I didn't get anything. I noticed
that
I didn't have the "RX" showing on the radio. At the time I was about 25
miles away and 2K feet. I thought maybe I was too low and far away,
although I had been listening to Approach when I dialed in ATIS. As I
got
closer, I climbed a little and suddenly I could hear them so I didn't
think
much more about it. But I am pretty sure that I should have been able
to
hear them because I could almost see the airport from where I was.
After I contacted approach and was handed off to Sanford tower, I didn't
hear from the tower for several minutes, then they asked me "how do you
hear?". I replied "Fine". I didn't think much more about that incident
either, but after I got home, I listened to the tower archives and I
found
that the tower had asked me 4 times how do you hear and I only heard the
last one.
This makes me feel that I have some kind of intermittent problem with
receive. Everything else was working on the radio that I know of. It
seems
to be just an intermittent receive problem. Do you have any ideas where
I
should look for something like that?
I have this type of antenna.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php
It does not have a ground plane as it is a half wave antenna. The one I
have it the 5T which allows the coax to come out and be supported on the
side of the fuselage with mounting brackets. The antenna is inside the
fuselage just behind the rear bulkhead on the Lancair Legacy. It is
mostly
vertical, but the ends (top and bottom) curve following the shape of the
fuselage and become horizontal for the last 4-5 inches. I think the
antenna
is something like 41-42 inches long. My plane is all fiberglass. The
only
carbon fiber is in the horizontal stabilizer, leg fairings, and the
wheel
pants. None of this carbon is closer than three feet or so to the
antenna.
But what ever this is, it is intermittent. The receive and transmit
seem to
work fine until they don't work at all. I have heard others tell me
that my
transmissions were staticy from time to time, which is why I have been
trying to hear myself by listening to the recordings from ATC. If I had
not
done that I would not even have known that I missed 3 radio calls from
ATC.
I was probably close to 5-6 miles out and heading directly toward the
airport when I was missing the calls.
Also, unrelated, I noticed that if I am on autopilot, (TruTrak
Digiflight II
GPSVG) that the autopilot goes haywire when the radio transmits. I have
heard of this problem on the internet but have not looked up what may be
causing it. Maybe you know off the top of your head??
Thanks for all you guys help!
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Intermittent no radio reception |
Bill,=0A=0AI would follow Ed's advice, because it's a very easy fix if that
's what's wrong. =C2-You never know who went into your hangar and decided
to make zoom zoom noises.=0A=C2-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A=0A__________
______________________=0A From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
=0ATo: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 3:53 P
M=0ASubject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent no radio reception=0A =0A
=0A =0AEd,=0AI don=99t think so.=C2- I didn=99t change=0Ait b
etween the works and don=99t work phases??=0A=C2-=0ABill
=0A=C2-=0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke=0ASent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:37=0APM
=0ATo: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List:=0A
Intermittent no radio reception=0A=C2-=0ASquelch set too high?=0A=0AEd Ho
lyoke=0A=0AOn 5/12/2012 9:15 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: =0A--> AeroElectric-
List message posted by: "Bill Bradburry" =0A=C2
-=0AI had a problem with my radio reception today and I am not certain wh
ere to=0Alook for the cause.=C2- I was flying and the radio was working f
ine.=C2- I was=0Alistening to Approach while I flew around and I could he
ar them fine.=C2- I=0Adecide to land, so I dialed in ATIS.=C2- I didn't
get anything.=C2- I noticed that=0AI didn't have the "RX" showing on the
radio.=C2- At the time I was about 25=0Amiles away and 2K feet.=C2- I
thought maybe I was too low and far away,=0Aalthough I had been listening t
o Approach when I dialed in ATIS.=C2- As I got=0Acloser, I climbed a litt
le and suddenly I could hear them so I didn't think=0Amuch more about it.
=C2- But I am pretty sure that I should have been able to=0Ahear them bec
ause I could almost see the airport from where I was.=0A=C2-=0AAfter I co
ntacted approach and was handed off to Sanford tower, I didn't=0Ahear from
the tower for several minutes, then they asked me "how do you=0Ahear?".=C2
- I replied "Fine".=C2- I didn't think much more about that incident=0A
either, but after I got home, I listened to the tower archives and I found
=0Athat the tower had asked me 4 times how do you hear and I only heard the
=0Alast one.=0A=C2-=0AThis makes me feel that I have some kind of intermi
ttent problem with=0Areceive.=C2- Everything else was working on the radi
o that I know of.=C2- It seems=0Ato be just an intermittent receive probl
em. Do you have any ideas where I=0Ashould look for something like that?=0A
=C2-=0AI have this type of antenna.=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.aircraftspruce.
com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php=0A=C2-=0AIt does not have a ground
plane as it is a half wave antenna.=C2- The one I=0Ahave it the 5T which
allows the coax to come out and be supported on the=0Aside of the fuselage
with mounting brackets.=C2- The antenna is inside the=0Afuselage just be
hind the rear bulkhead on the Lancair Legacy.=C2- It is mostly=0Avertical
, but the ends (top and bottom) curve following the shape of the=0Afuselage
and become horizontal for the last 4-5 inches.=C2- I think the antenna
=0Ais something like 41-42 inches long.=C2- My plane is all fiberglass.
=C2- The only=0Acarbon fiber is in the horizontal stabilizer, leg fairing
s, and the wheel=0Apants.=C2- None of this carbon is closer than three fe
et or so to the antenna.=0A=C2-=0ABut what ever this is, it is intermitte
nt.=C2- The receive and transmit seem to=0Awork fine until they don't wor
k at all.=C2- I have heard others tell me that my=0Atransmissions were st
aticy from time to time, which is why I have been=0Atrying to hear myself b
y listening to the recordings from ATC.=C2- If I had not=0Adone that I wo
uld not even have known that I missed 3 radio calls from ATC.=0AI was proba
bly close to 5-6 miles out and heading directly toward the=0Aairport when I
was missing the calls.=0A=C2-=0AAlso, unrelated, I noticed that if I am
on autopilot, (TruTrak Digiflight II=0AGPSVG) that the autopilot goes haywi
re when the radio transmits.=C2- I have=0Aheard of this problem on the in
ternet but have not looked up what may be=0Acausing it.=C2- Maybe you kno
w off the top of your head?? =0A=C2-=0AThanks for all you guys help!=0A
=C2-=0ABill B=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2
===============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SSF-1 WIG WAG Flasher |
At 02:17 PM 5/13/2012, you wrote:
Dick,
If you truly would be satisfied with flashing one lamp and if you
have enough power budget for the additional current the Xenon lamp
requires and if you don't mind a little re-wiring, you could
substitute a power resistor for the incandescent lamp that was
removed. The resistor will keep the flasher happy. Think of it as a
non-illuminating lamp :-)
Assuming you're using a 55W lamp at 14V, you would need 3.6 ohms
capable of dissipating 55 watts half of the time (50% duty cycle). A
couple of 10-ohm, 20-watt resistors in parallel should be close
enough to fool the flasher and if not, add a third one. FYI, those
resistors will get very hot; don't put then in your lighting switch panel.
My wig-wag uses an electro-mechanical flasher too and this is what I
plan to do when I upgrade my lights unless I spring for a new
(solid-state) flasher. But that's not going to happen until after
the airplane's flying .
If your new HID lamp/pwr-supply combo will tolerate
flashing, then you can also consider adding some dummy-load
resistance in parallel with the wires to the HID
power supply.
We did a patch to the B&C Wig-Wag instructions to
accommodate LED lamps, same fix should work with your
HID too.
http://tinyurl.com/7d5u7ny
There's a solid state wig-wag controller development
program under way right now
http://tinyurl.com/77ungjg
. . . parts I had on order to finish the proof of concept
boards spiraled down the USPS black hole when an error
in zip code left my parts looking for a Medicine Lodge
address . . . in spite of the fact that the printed address
was correct. Lessons learned, USPS mailed with a confirmation
track is delivered by USPS bar code . . . Address mail to
me at 67104-0130 as the ONLY address and it will get here.
Have an error in the zip code then it doesn't matter what
the rest of the address says . . . anywho, that all got
sorted out and the parts should be here Tuesday.
In the mean time, you could put 75 ohms across the HID
lamp supply . . . I think the B&C electronic flasher
will get happy again.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fedico94(at)mchsi.com |
Note drawing with "main batter bus" connectoed to "endurance bus". An E-bus Alternate
Feed Switch is shown on schematic. How can I place a small light bulb
to indicate that the E.bus switch is closed and conducting to the E-bus ? This
is for visula reminder in low light conditions that be be present as an emergency
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
> How can I place a small light bulb to indicate that the E.bus switch is closed
Connect the lamp in parallel with the E-Bus Relay COIL.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373014#373014
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding buried ac line |
Morning, Skip...
First, as a reminder to all when replying to messages received in
the daily digest format, try not to send in the entire digest, as
you did. I don't know how it works in other email programs, but
in Thunderbird it's easy without doing any deleting...just
highlight the portion of the message you want to reply to, then
when you hit the reply button, it only uses the highlighted
text...as I have done here.
Anyway...the same thing happened to my father about 15 years ago
when he was digging a ditch to install a water curtain. The
local power company marked the location of his underground
service, but the backhoe still broke the main line, even though
he was digging 10 feet from it!
However, they apparently have better sensing equipment now, as
when Dad's neighbor expanded his pond a few years ago the power
company got their lines marked exactly. I've also seen a couple
here in my neighborhood, and at a friend's house across town,
where they got it located perfectly...in two cases, to actually
dig up the line to replace it. When they dug down, they were
right on top of what they wanted to repair.
So, they have gotten better over the years, and I definitely
would call the power company, gas company, cable company,
whatever you have buried in your yard (and don't forget the
septic system, if you have one!) before digging or drilling. At
least if you hit their service after they mark it in the wrong
place, you can blame them!
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ...IT'S ALIVE!
Powered up the newly wired, all electric instrument panel
yesterday... and it all worked! Next...reinstall the engine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On 5/14/2012 7:30 AM, CardinalNSB(at)aol.com wrote:
> I didn't see any message that answered the question, did I miss it?
> The last time the power company "located" my service line for
> the fence company, they totally missed it by 100 feet, and the
> fence company was about to power drill right into the service
> line. Luckily I came home for lunch and yelled to stop and had
> to argue with the crew chief "I don't care what the power
> company said, I was personally here when the line was run 15
> years ago and its right along this line".
> So I too would be interested in this off topic answer. Skip
> Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bakerocb" <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Intermittent no radio reception |
5/14/2012
Hello Bill, You wrote: "I could try and move wires around to
see if I can duplicate the problem."
Or carry along another headset known to be good and plug it right while you
are having the problem.
I had a "reception" problem with an older model Lightspeed headset that I
fussed with for a time. Finally identified the headset as the cause. Sent
the headset off to Lightspeed. They fixed it and updated it both at no cost
to me -- great customer service.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
=====================================================
From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent no radio reception
OC,
No I don't know if the headset is the problem, but it is a Lightspeed Mach 1
that I have had for less than a year. I could try and move wires around to
see if I can duplicate the problem.
B2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 08:29 PM 5/13/2012, you wrote:
>
>Note drawing with "main batter bus" connectoed to "endurance
>bus". An E-bus Alternate Feed Switch is shown on schematic. How
>can I place a small light bulb to indicate that the E.bus switch is
>closed and conducting to the E-bus ? This is for visula reminder in
>low light conditions that be be present as an emergency
Not sure what the concern is. The whole idea for
the endurance bus is to keep an electrical system
failure (alternator or battery contactor) from
becoming an emergency. If the e-bus alternate feed
switch is closed, then items powered from the e-bus
remain active irrespective of conditions for the
main bus. If you've not used the e-bus alternate feed
for any particular flight, it will already be off when
you park the airplane. If you DID need the alternate
feed path for comfortable termination of flight, then
you not only need to remember to turn the alternate
feed switch off, you you have some failure issues to
repair as well.
If the alternate feed switch is inadvertently left
in the ON position after shutdown, then items feed
from the e-bus will remain powered . . . it seems
this fact would serve the same function as adding a
light to annunciate the switch position.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: finding buried ac line |
| From: | "mmayfield" <mmayfield(at)ozemail.com.au> |
My local sparky located our 240v underground mains cable to within a few cm both
laterally and depth. He has a cable locating device. He charged a very modest
fee (can't remember how much).
So try calling a couple of friendly neighbourhood electricians. If they don't have
the gear, they may know someone who does.
--------
Mike
Your political opinions are noted. And ignored.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373072#373072
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Intermittent no radio reception |
Howdy Bill,
You don't have to change the squelch setting for the radio to suddenly
start receiving. All you have to do is increase the signal strength.
Flying closer or climbing could do it. If the squelch is set too high,
it'd seem to you as if there was no transmission at all until the signal
got strong enough to break through. If the radio has auto-squelch, that
can only be reset by the shop, I think. On a radio with manual squelch,
I adjust it till it will not quite break squelch with nobody
transmitting. Then pretty much any signal at all will break it.I check
it on every flight because conditions change. Only takes a second and I
know that I'm not missing anything that I could actually hear.
I often use the squelch on my #2 radio to keep the noise down on ATIS
until I have some open air and time to listen to it. I'll also set it
higher than normal so that when I get close enough that the weak signal
from ATIS can be understood, it breaks the squelch and reminds me to
listen to it.
I hope your problem is as simple as that. Makes it easy to solve. ;-)
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
On 5/13/2012 12:53 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> I don't think so. I didn't change it between the works and don't work
> phases...??
>
> Bill
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Ed Holyoke
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:37 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Intermittent no radio reception
>
> Squelch set too high?
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
> On 5/12/2012 9:15 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Bradburry"
>
> I had a problem with my radio reception today and I am not certain where to
> look for the cause. I was flying and the radio was working fine. I was
> listening to Approach while I flew around and I could hear them fine. I
> decide to land, so I dialed in ATIS. I didn't get anything. I noticed that
> I didn't have the "RX" showing on the radio. At the time I was about 25
> miles away and 2K feet. I thought maybe I was too low and far away,
> although I had been listening to Approach when I dialed in ATIS. As I got
> closer, I climbed a little and suddenly I could hear them so I didn't think
> much more about it. But I am pretty sure that I should have been able to
> hear them because I could almost see the airport from where I was.
>
> After I contacted approach and was handed off toSanford tower, I didn't
> hear from the tower for several minutes, then they asked me "how do you
> hear?". I replied "Fine". I didn't think much more about that incident
> either, but after I got home, I listened to the tower archives and I found
> that the tower had asked me 4 times how do you hear and I only heard the
> last one.
>
> This makes me feel that I have some kind of intermittent problem with
> receive. Everything else was working on the radio that I know of. It seems
> to be just an intermittent receive problem. Do you have any ideas where I
> should look for something like that?
>
> I have this type of antenna.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems.php
>
> It does not have a ground plane as it is a half wave antenna. The one I
> have it the 5T which allows the coax to come out and be supported on the
> side of the fuselage with mounting brackets. The antenna is inside the
> fuselage just behind the rear bulkhead on the Lancair Legacy. It is mostly
> vertical, but the ends (top and bottom) curve following the shape of the
> fuselage and become horizontal for the last 4-5 inches. I think the antenna
> is something like 41-42 inches long. My plane is all fiberglass. The only
> carbon fiber is in the horizontal stabilizer, leg fairings, and the wheel
> pants. None of this carbon is closer than three feet or so to the antenna.
>
> But what ever this is, it is intermittent. The receive and transmit seem to
> work fine until they don't work at all. I have heard others tell me that my
> transmissions were staticy from time to time, which is why I have been
> trying to hear myself by listening to the recordings from ATC. If I had not
> done that I would not even have known that I missed 3 radio calls from ATC.
> I was probably close to 5-6 miles out and heading directly toward the
> airport when I was missing the calls.
>
> Also, unrelated, I noticed that if I am on autopilot, (TruTrak Digiflight II
> GPSVG) that the autopilot goes haywire when the radio transmits. I have
> heard of this problem on the internet but have not looked up what may be
> causing it. Maybe you know off the top of your head??
>
> Thanks for all you guys help!
>
> Bill B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Source for new Aerostart connectors? |
Beech and no doubt some others used a more
'aviation' vetted connector for ground power
called the "Aerostart" . . .
http://tinyurl.com/6nbpw7e
is anyone on the List aware of a source for
replacement connectors?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Source for new Aerostart connectors? |
Bob,
Are these connectors close to or what you can use....
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/jumpercables.php
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/tools/battery-tools.html
They seemed to be called "Piper" type.....
D
_________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:39 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Source for new Aerostart connectors?
>
>
> Beech and no doubt some others used a more
> 'aviation' vetted connector for ground power
> called the "Aerostart" . . .
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6nbpw7e
>
> is anyone on the List aware of a source for
> replacement connectors?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
I'm having a major problem with RFI in my Jabiru 3300 Sonex. Radio is MGL V6, just
out a few months ago. Antenna is a belly mounted homemade one made from a
CB antenna. It's 22" long with a single bend, mounted ~2' behind the firewall,
~2' below the com radio. Bob made the cable, RGxxx, double shielded. I get ignition
noise, left mag much worse than the right.
What I've done
Replaced spark plugs with resistive type. No difference.
Disconnected the shielded P leads. No difference.
Disconnected antenna, which cutout all noise. So I figure the noise is radiated,
not conducted. I think I had the squelch all the way down, but it's possible
it was turned up a little.
Connected a separate battery. No difference.
Put beads on coil to distributor leads, antenna, power and ground leads. No difference.
Left mag makes 90% of the noise. Turned off left mag and pulled right plug wires
sequentially. The right mag has always made a much slower 'tick' than the left,
but still couldn't isolate it this way.
Removed jacks and a switch that could have caused ground loops on the panel. No
difference.
Disconnected comm antenna (on belly, 2' aft of firewall) and connected radio to
ELT antenna on top tailcone ~8-10' further back. Cut down noise, but still noticeable.
Replaced left mag spark plug wires with Accel 300+ ferro spiral plug wires. No
difference
Swapped distributor caps. I was in a hurry to get my pilot up in the air, so didn't
listen. He said there was no difference in flight. His transmissions were
very poor. The only time he was easily understood was when he throttled back
on final. He later told me the left and right were both noisy. Changing the distributor
caps didn't seem to do anything. They also looked fine on the inside.
Things I may try
With the new plug wires in, connect the radio to the ELT antenna 8' further back
on the tailcone. Comm antenna is belly mounted, 2' back of the firewall. I'd
done this before the plug wire upgrade and it made a significant improvement,
but the noise was still very noticeable.
Connect a handheld to the comm antenna. If the noise goes away, it's gotta be the
radio, since we've already ruled out noise via system conduction.
Check the SWR. If this is reasonable to do, I'd prolly buy a meter for $50. My
comm antenna is 22" long that I made from a cut down CB antenna. If it shows >3,
I'd fix it or buy a real one.
I'll make sure athe alternator leads going to the voltage regulator are twisted.
Replace the coil to distributor lead with noiseless wire. Some have had success
with this, but most have tamed the noise with beads after using noiseless plug
wires. I don't want to replace this stock coil lead, since I'm not sure I could
make a secure connection and I'm doubtful it would do any good.
Any sugestions?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373137#373137
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Source for new Aerostart connectors? |
At 05:58 PM 5/15/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Are these connectors close to or what you can use....
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/jumpercables.php
>
>http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/tools/battery-tools.html
>
>They seemed to be called "Piper" type.....
Unfortunately, no. But thanks for looking! The
"Piper" style ground power plug is a Cole-Hersee
product
Emacs!
. . . first popularized by Piper for aircraft and
adopted by quite a few others. In fact so many that
FBO ground power carts are often fitted with mating
plugs.
The Aerostart product didn't seem to catch on and
only made it onto a few production models. It's sort
of the 'beta-max' of ground power connectors. Perfectly
good and perhaps even superior to the truck connector
but alas . . . for lack of a blessing and support by
a major manufacturer . . . it's toe hold in the marketplace
was tenuous at best.
I think if I owned an airplane fitted with an Aerostart,
I'd convert it to something more popular.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Slice of history |
I had an opportunity to modernize the landing gear control box
for a 1940's era Harlow. Stripped out the guts of the box to
make room for modern relays. The wire used in this assembly was
cloth over rubber that was in surprisingly good shape . . . although
the airplane had not flown in a long time.
Emacs!
This was the best we knew how to do in 1940 . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Borrow a different radio or use a handheld connected through your antenna
system.
Rick Girard
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:05 AM, messydeer wrote:
>
> I'm having a major problem with RFI in my Jabiru 3300 Sonex. Radio is MGL
> V6, just out a few months ago. Antenna is a belly mounted homemade one made
> from a CB antenna. It's 22" long with a single bend, mounted ~2' behind the
> firewall, ~2' below the com radio. Bob made the cable, RGxxx, double
> shielded. I get ignition noise, left mag much worse than the right.
>
> What I've done
>
> Replaced spark plugs with resistive type. No difference.
>
> Disconnected the shielded P leads. No difference.
>
> Disconnected antenna, which cutout all noise. So I figure the noise is
> radiated, not conducted. I think I had the squelch all the way down, but
> it's possible it was turned up a little.
>
> Connected a separate battery. No difference.
>
> Put beads on coil to distributor leads, antenna, power and ground leads.
> No difference.
>
> Left mag makes 90% of the noise. Turned off left mag and pulled right plug
> wires sequentially. The right mag has always made a much slower 'tick' than
> the left, but still couldn't isolate it this way.
>
> Removed jacks and a switch that could have caused ground loops on the
> panel. No difference.
>
> Disconnected comm antenna (on belly, 2' aft of firewall) and connected
> radio to ELT antenna on top tailcone ~8-10' further back. Cut down noise,
> but still noticeable.
>
> Replaced left mag spark plug wires with Accel 300+ ferro spiral plug
> wires. No difference
>
> Swapped distributor caps. I was in a hurry to get my pilot up in the air,
> so didn't listen. He said there was no difference in flight. His
> transmissions were very poor. The only time he was easily understood was
> when he throttled back on final. He later told me the left and right were
> both noisy. Changing the distributor caps didn't seem to do anything. They
> also looked fine on the inside.
>
> Things I may try
>
> With the new plug wires in, connect the radio to the ELT antenna 8'
> further back on the tailcone. Comm antenna is belly mounted, 2' back of the
> firewall. I'd done this before the plug wire upgrade and it made a
> significant improvement, but the noise was still very noticeable.
>
> Connect a handheld to the comm antenna. If the noise goes away, it's gotta
> be the radio, since we've already ruled out noise via system conduction.
>
> Check the SWR. If this is reasonable to do, I'd prolly buy a meter for
> $50. My comm antenna is 22" long that I made from a cut down CB antenna. If
> it shows >3, I'd fix it or buy a real one.
>
> I'll make sure athe alternator leads going to the voltage regulator are
> twisted.
>
> Replace the coil to distributor lead with noiseless wire. Some have had
> success with this, but most have tamed the noise with beads after using
> noiseless plug wires. I don't want to replace this stock coil lead, since
> I'm not sure I could make a secure connection and I'm doubtful it would do
> any good.
>
> Any sugestions?
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373137#373137
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
I came across this on the Microaire website today...it's a bit
specific for strobe noise, but does go into other possible
sources and their elimination. Specifically mentioning ground
problems and how they can affect the radios. Even if you can't
use it (or already have!) it may make a good check list for
others here.
www.microair.com.au/admin/uploads/StrobeTroubleShooting1.pdf
Harley
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On 5/16/2012 6:29 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Borrow a different radio or use a handheld connected through
> your antenna system.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:05 AM, messydeer
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> I'm having a major problem with RFI in my Jabiru 3300
> Sonex. Radio is MGL V6, just out a few months ago. Antenna
> is a belly mounted homemade one made from a CB antenna.
> It's 22" long with a single bend, mounted ~2' behind the
> firewall, ~2' below the com radio. Bob made the cable,
> RGxxx, double shielded. I get ignition noise, left mag much
> worse than the right.
>
> What I've done
>
> Replaced spark plugs with resistive type. No difference.
>
> Disconnected the shielded P leads. No difference.
>
> Disconnected antenna, which cutout all noise. So I figure
> the noise is radiated, not conducted. I think I had the
> squelch all the way down, but it's possible it was turned
> up a little.
>
> Connected a separate battery. No difference.
>
> Put beads on coil to distributor leads, antenna, power and
> ground leads. No difference.
>
> Left mag makes 90% of the noise. Turned off left mag and
> pulled right plug wires sequentially. The right mag has
> always made a much slower 'tick' than the left, but still
> couldn't isolate it this way.
>
> Removed jacks and a switch that could have caused ground
> loops on the panel. No difference.
>
> Disconnected comm antenna (on belly, 2' aft of firewall)
> and connected radio to ELT antenna on top tailcone ~8-10'
> further back. Cut down noise, but still noticeable.
>
> Replaced left mag spark plug wires with Accel 300+ ferro
> spiral plug wires. No difference
>
> Swapped distributor caps. I was in a hurry to get my pilot
> up in the air, so didn't listen. He said there was no
> difference in flight. His transmissions were very poor. The
> only time he was easily understood was when he throttled
> back on final. He later told me the left and right were
> both noisy. Changing the distributor caps didn't seem to do
> anything. They also looked fine on the inside.
>
> Things I may try
>
> With the new plug wires in, connect the radio to the ELT
> antenna 8' further back on the tailcone. Comm antenna is
> belly mounted, 2' back of the firewall. I'd done this
> before the plug wire upgrade and it made a significant
> improvement, but the noise was still very noticeable.
>
> Connect a handheld to the comm antenna. If the noise goes
> away, it's gotta be the radio, since we've already ruled
> out noise via system conduction.
>
> Check the SWR. If this is reasonable to do, I'd prolly buy
> a meter for $50. My comm antenna is 22" long that I made
> from a cut down CB antenna. If it shows >3, I'd fix it or
> buy a real one.
>
> I'll make sure athe alternator leads going to the voltage
> regulator are twisted.
>
> Replace the coil to distributor lead with noiseless wire.
> Some have had success with this, but most have tamed the
> noise with beads after using noiseless plug wires. I don't
> want to replace this stock coil lead, since I'm not sure I
> could make a secure connection and I'm doubtful it would do
> any good.
>
> Any sugestions?
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373137#373137
>
>
> ==========
> -List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to
> be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Date: 05/16/12
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John MacCallum" <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
Yes the Noise may be being radiated. However it shouldn't affect
transmission. If there is a problem with both Transmit and receive then look
to the
Antenna and Feedline or the radio itself.
I think that Jabiru Engines use Honda Lawn Mover Magnetos and Points. Check
or change the Suppression Capacitors on the Points. As you have already
Replaced the Plug Leads that's about all you can do other than check the
Grounding of the Engine to the rest of the Airframe.
By the way doing a quick check of a Qtr Wavelength at 120 MHz I get .
300/120=2.5
2.5/4=.625m
625mm/25.4=24.6 Inches
24.6*0.97=23.87 Inches.
127.5 MHz = 22.46 Inches
Bending he Antenna towards the ground plane (fuselage) will affect the both
the Feed point Impedance and the Resonant frequency. So
Get an SWR meter and have look at the SWR over the entire range. 118 to 137
Mhz
Cheers
John MAcCallum
RV10 Builder #41016
VH-DUU
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley
Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ignition Interference
I came across this on the Microaire website today...it's a bit specific for
strobe noise, but does go into other possible sources and their elimination.
Specifically mentioning ground problems and how they can affect the radios.
Even if you can't use it (or already have!) it may make a good check list
for others here.
www.microair.com.au/admin/uploads/StrobeTroubleShooting1.pdf
Harley
_____
On 5/16/2012 6:29 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
Borrow a different radio or use a handheld connected through your antenna
system.
Rick Girard
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:05 AM, messydeer wrote:
I'm having a major problem with RFI in my Jabiru 3300 Sonex. Radio is MGL
V6, just out a few months ago. Antenna is a belly mounted homemade one made
from a CB antenna. It's 22" long with a single bend, mounted ~2' behind the
firewall, ~2' below the com radio. Bob made the cable, RGxxx, double
shielded. I get ignition noise, left mag much worse than the right.
What I've done
Replaced spark plugs with resistive type. No difference.
Disconnected the shielded P leads. No difference.
Disconnected antenna, which cutout all noise. So I figure the noise is
radiated, not conducted. I think I had the squelch all the way down, but
it's possible it was turned up a little.
Connected a separate battery. No difference.
Put beads on coil to distributor leads, antenna, power and ground leads. No
difference.
Left mag makes 90% of the noise. Turned off left mag and pulled right plug
wires sequentially. The right mag has always made a much slower 'tick' than
the left, but still couldn't isolate it this way.
Removed jacks and a switch that could have caused ground loops on the panel.
No difference.
Disconnected comm antenna (on belly, 2' aft of firewall) and connected radio
to ELT antenna on top tailcone ~8-10' further back. Cut down noise, but
still noticeable.
Replaced left mag spark plug wires with Accel 300+ ferro spiral plug wires.
No difference
Swapped distributor caps. I was in a hurry to get my pilot up in the air, so
didn't listen. He said there was no difference in flight. His transmissions
were very poor. The only time he was easily understood was when he throttled
back on final. He later told me the left and right were both noisy. Changing
the distributor caps didn't seem to do anything. They also looked fine on
the inside.
Things I may try
With the new plug wires in, connect the radio to the ELT antenna 8' further
back on the tailcone. Comm antenna is belly mounted, 2' back of the
firewall. I'd done this before the plug wire upgrade and it made a
significant improvement, but the noise was still very noticeable.
Connect a handheld to the comm antenna. If the noise goes away, it's gotta
be the radio, since we've already ruled out noise via system conduction.
Check the SWR. If this is reasonable to do, I'd prolly buy a meter for $50.
My comm antenna is 22" long that I made from a cut down CB antenna. If it
shows >3, I'd fix it or buy a real one.
I'll make sure athe alternator leads going to the voltage regulator are
twisted.
Replace the coil to distributor lead with noiseless wire. Some have had
success with this, but most have tamed the noise with beads after using
noiseless plug wires. I don't want to replace this stock coil lead, since
I'm not sure I could make a secure connection and I'm doubtful it would do
any good.
Any sugestions?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373137#373137
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
05/16/12
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fedico94(at)mchsi.com |
| Subject: | Challanging and perplexing |
I built my electrical system per Z-13/20. On 2 seperate occassions I found that
someone had moved the E-Bus Alt Mater Switch to engage the only the Battery.
The first time they turned on the strobes and ran the battery down and this
was quikly reversed with recharging the battery (PC680)from 5.6 volts. This occurred
a second time probably the radios left on. I had the battery recharged
and it shows 12V on the handheld meter. The E-bus Alt Master Switch will not
allow the battery solenoid to "click" on (purchased from B & C). I by passed
this with an 18ga wire so as to connect the battery positive terminal directly
to the main power bus distribution side of the battery contactor. I have 10
volts showing through the main power bus and E-bus. I engaged the avionics
fan from the e-bus by pushing in the CB and the fan motor did not engage. I tried
the same with the defroster fan at the switch and the motor did not turn
on. Both of these are low amperage and both showed 10 amps power with the handheld
voltmeter downstream of the CB and Switch. No electrical item (all that
I have radios etc will not come on.
I do not understand what the problem is ? The person who recharged my battery
said it recharged in 2 hours and only drew about 2 amps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Challenging and perplexing |
Sounds like your battery is dead. If the battery itself is only showing 12
volts it is not properly charged, it should be significantly higher than
that (somewhere in the 12.4 volt range) and if the buss is showing only 10
volts with minimal loads the battery is dead.
Try substituting a fully charged known good battery just as a test and
probably all will be well. (Assuming everything used to work properly.) A
battery which has been discharged as low as 5.6 volts may not recover.
Discharging a battery that far can sometimes be a death sentence for the
battery.
I just went to the garage and measured a battery which has been sitting
unused and uncharged for about 18 months and it still measures 12.18 volts
so if your freshly charged battery is only 12 volts it has serious issues.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94(at)mchsi.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:29 PM
> To: Nuckolls, Robert
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Challanging and perplexing
>
>
> I built my electrical system per Z-13/20. On 2 seperate occassions I
found that
> someone had moved the E-Bus Alt Mater Switch to engage the only the
Battery. The
> first time they turned on the strobes and ran the battery down and this
was quikly
> reversed with recharging the battery (PC680)from 5.6 volts. This occurred
a second
> time probably the radios left on. I had the battery recharged and it
shows 12V on the
> handheld meter. The E-bus Alt Master Switch will not allow the battery
solenoid to
> "click" on (purchased from B & C). I by passed this with an 18ga wire so
as to connect
> the battery positive terminal directly to the main power bus distribution
side of the
> battery contactor. I have 10 volts showing through the main power bus and
E-bus. I
> engaged the avionics fan from the e-bus by pushing in the CB and the fan
motor did
> not engage. I tried the same with the defroster fan at the switch and the
motor did
> not turn on. Both of these are low amperage and both showed !
> 10 amps power with the handheld voltmeter downstream of the CB and
Switch. No
> electrical item (all that I have radios etc will not come on.
>
> I do not understand what the problem is ? The person who recharged my
battery said
> it recharged in 2 hours and only drew about 2 amps.
>
>
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fedico94(at)mchsi.com |
| Subject: | Challenging and perplexing |
That was my first thought, but I would think a samll motor drawing 0.5 amps would
still come on with some life. I thought I would inquire first before buying
a 25 dollar garden tractor battery. If that works then I will upgrade to the
90 dollar PC680. I did not see any problem with melted wires that supply ground
at forest of tabs. A grounding fault was another thought.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Challenging and perplexing
Sounds like your battery is dead. If the battery itself is only showing 12
volts it is not properly charged, it should be significantly higher than
that (somewhere in the 12.4 volt range) and if the buss is showing only 10
volts with minimal loads the battery is dead.
Try substituting a fully charged known good battery just as a test and
probably all will be well. (Assuming everything used to work properly.) A
battery which has been discharged as low as 5.6 volts may not recover.
Discharging a battery that far can sometimes be a death sentence for the
battery.
I just went to the garage and measured a battery which has been sitting
unused and uncharged for about 18 months and it still measures 12.18 volts
so if your freshly charged battery is only 12 volts it has serious issues.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94(at)mchsi.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:29 PM
> To: Nuckolls, Robert
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Challanging and perplexing
>
>
> I built my electrical system per Z-13/20. On 2 seperate occassions I
found that
> someone had moved the E-Bus Alt Mater Switch to engage the only the
Battery. The
> first time they turned on the strobes and ran the battery down and this
was quikly
> reversed with recharging the battery (PC680)from 5.6 volts. This occurred
a second
> time probably the radios left on. I had the battery recharged and it
shows 12V on the
> handheld meter. The E-bus Alt Master Switch will not allow the battery
solenoid to
> "click" on (purchased from B & C). I by passed this with an 18ga wire so
as to connect
> the battery positive terminal directly to the main power bus distribution
side of the
> battery contactor. I have 10 volts showing through the main power bus and
E-bus. I
> engaged the avionics fan from the e-bus by pushing in the CB and the fan
motor did
> not engage. I tried the same with the defroster fan at the switch and the
motor did
> not turn on. Both of these are low amperage and both showed !
> 10 amps power with the handheld voltmeter downstream of the CB and
Switch. No
> electrical item (all that I have radios etc will not come on.
>
> I do not understand what the problem is ? The person who recharged my
battery said
> it recharged in 2 hours and only drew about 2 amps.
>
>
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Challenging and perplexing |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
Unless you are in the market for a tractor battery, could you not just
run jumper cables from your car?
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:36 PM, wrote:
>
> That was my first thought, but I would think a samll motor drawing 0.5 amps would
still come on with some life. I thought I would inquire first before buying
a 25 dollar garden tractor battery. If that works then I will upgrade to the
90 dollar PC680. I did not see any problem with melted wires that supply ground
at forest of tabs. A grounding fault was another thought.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Challenging and perplexing
>
>
> Sounds like your battery is dead. If the battery itself is only showing 12
> volts it is not properly charged, it should be significantly higher than
> that (somewhere in the 12.4 volt range) and if the buss is showing only 10
> volts with minimal loads the battery is dead.
>
> Try substituting a fully charged known good battery just as a test and
> probably all will be well. (Assuming everything used to work properly.) A
> battery which has been discharged as low as 5.6 volts may not recover.
> Discharging a battery that far can sometimes be a death sentence for the
> battery.
>
> I just went to the garage and measured a battery which has been sitting
> unused and uncharged for about 18 months and it still measures 12.18 volts
> so if your freshly charged battery is only 12 volts it has serious issues.
>
> Bob McC
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
>> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94(at)mchsi.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:29 PM
>> To: Nuckolls, Robert
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Challanging and perplexing
>>
>>
>> I built my electrical system per Z-13/20. On 2 seperate occassions I
> found that
>> someone had moved the E-Bus Alt Mater Switch to engage the only the
> Battery. The
>> first time they turned on the strobes and ran the battery down and this
> was quikly
>> reversed with recharging the battery (PC680)from 5.6 volts. This occurred
> a second
>> time probably the radios left on. I had the battery recharged and it
> shows 12V on the
>> handheld meter. The E-bus Alt Master Switch will not allow the battery
> solenoid to
>> "click" on (purchased from B & C). I by passed this with an 18ga wire so
> as to connect
>> the battery positive terminal directly to the main power bus distribution
> side of the
>> battery contactor. I have 10 volts showing through the main power bus and
> E-bus. I
>> engaged the avionics fan from the e-bus by pushing in the CB and the fan
> motor did
>> not engage. I tried the same with the defroster fan at the switch and the
> motor did
>> not turn on. Both of these are low amperage and both showed !
>> 10 amps power with the handheld voltmeter downstream of the CB and
> Switch. No
>> electrical item (all that I have radios etc will not come on.
>>
>> I do not understand what the problem is ? The person who recharged my
> battery said
>> it recharged in 2 hours and only drew about 2 amps.
>>
>>
>> _-
>> ====================================================
>> ======
>> _-
>> ====================================================
>> ======
>> _-
>> ====================================================
>> ======
>> _-
>> ====================================================
>> ======
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Challenging and perplexing |
Rather than buying a battery for just testing either borrow one or simply
use your car battery (with jumper cables if necessary) for a test.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94(at)mchsi.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:37 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Challenging and perplexing
>
>
> That was my first thought, but I would think a samll motor drawing 0.5
amps would
> still come on with some life. I thought I would inquire first before
buying a 25 dollar
> garden tractor battery. If that works then I will upgrade to the 90
dollar PC680. I did
> not see any problem with melted wires that supply ground at forest of
tabs. A
> grounding fault was another thought.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Challenging and perplexing
>
>
>
> Sounds like your battery is dead. If the battery itself is only showing 12
> volts it is not properly charged, it should be significantly higher than
> that (somewhere in the 12.4 volt range) and if the buss is showing only 10
> volts with minimal loads the battery is dead.
>
> Try substituting a fully charged known good battery just as a test and
> probably all will be well. (Assuming everything used to work properly.) A
> battery which has been discharged as low as 5.6 volts may not recover.
> Discharging a battery that far can sometimes be a death sentence for the
> battery.
>
> I just went to the garage and measured a battery which has been sitting
> unused and uncharged for about 18 months and it still measures 12.18 volts
> so if your freshly charged battery is only 12 volts it has serious issues.
>
> Bob McC
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94(at)mchsi.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:29 PM
> > To: Nuckolls, Robert
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Challanging and perplexing
> >
> >
> > I built my electrical system per Z-13/20. On 2 seperate occassions I
> found that
> > someone had moved the E-Bus Alt Mater Switch to engage the only the
> Battery. The
> > first time they turned on the strobes and ran the battery down and this
> was quikly
> > reversed with recharging the battery (PC680)from 5.6 volts. This
occurred
> a second
> > time probably the radios left on. I had the battery recharged and it
> shows 12V on the
> > handheld meter. The E-bus Alt Master Switch will not allow the battery
> solenoid to
> > "click" on (purchased from B & C). I by passed this with an 18ga wire
so
> as to connect
> > the battery positive terminal directly to the main power bus
distribution
> side of the
> > battery contactor. I have 10 volts showing through the main power bus
and
> E-bus. I
> > engaged the avionics fan from the e-bus by pushing in the CB and the fan
> motor did
> > not engage. I tried the same with the defroster fan at the switch and
the
> motor did
> > not turn on. Both of these are low amperage and both showed !
> > 10 amps power with the handheld voltmeter downstream of the CB and
> Switch. No
> > electrical item (all that I have radios etc will not come on.
> >
> > I do not understand what the problem is ? The person who recharged my
> battery said
> > it recharged in 2 hours and only drew about 2 amps.
> >
> >
> > _-
> >
> ====================================================
> > ======
> > _-
> >
> ====================================================
> > ======
> > _-
> >
> ====================================================
> > ======
> > _-
> >
> ====================================================
> > ======
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
..joining this thread late...
I assume that you have a large, well connected ground cable from the
engine case to the aircraft frame...??
D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: Harley
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ignition Interference
I came across this on the Microaire website today...it's a bit
specific for strobe noise, but does go into other possible sources and
their elimination. Specifically mentioning ground problems and how they
can affect the radios. Even if you can't use it (or already have!) it
may make a good check list for others here.
www.microair.com.au/admin/uploads/StrobeTroubleShooting1.pdf
Harley
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
On 5/16/2012 6:29 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
Borrow a different radio or use a handheld connected through your
antenna system.
Rick Girard
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:05 AM, messydeer
wrote:
I'm having a major problem with RFI in my Jabiru 3300 Sonex. Radio
is MGL V6, just out a few months ago. Antenna is a belly mounted
homemade one made from a CB antenna. It's 22" long with a single bend,
mounted ~2' behind the firewall, ~2' below the com radio. Bob made the
cable, RGxxx, double shielded. I get ignition noise, left mag much worse
than the right.
What I've done
Replaced spark plugs with resistive type. No difference.
Disconnected the shielded P leads. No difference.
Disconnected antenna, which cutout all noise. So I figure the
noise is radiated, not conducted. I think I had the squelch all the way
down, but it's possible it was turned up a little.
Connected a separate battery. No difference.
Put beads on coil to distributor leads, antenna, power and ground
leads. No difference.
Left mag makes 90% of the noise. Turned off left mag and pulled
right plug wires sequentially. The right mag has always made a much
slower 'tick' than the left, but still couldn't isolate it this way.
Removed jacks and a switch that could have caused ground loops on
the panel. No difference.
Disconnected comm antenna (on belly, 2' aft of firewall) and
connected radio to ELT antenna on top tailcone ~8-10' further back. Cut
down noise, but still noticeable.
Replaced left mag spark plug wires with Accel 300+ ferro spiral
plug wires. No difference
Swapped distributor caps. I was in a hurry to get my pilot up in
the air, so didn't listen. He said there was no difference in flight.
His transmissions were very poor. The only time he was easily understood
was when he throttled back on final. He later told me the left and right
were both noisy. Changing the distributor caps didn't seem to do
anything. They also looked fine on the inside.
Things I may try
With the new plug wires in, connect the radio to the ELT antenna
8' further back on the tailcone. Comm antenna is belly mounted, 2' back
of the firewall. I'd done this before the plug wire upgrade and it made
a significant improvement, but the noise was still very noticeable.
Connect a handheld to the comm antenna. If the noise goes away,
it's gotta be the radio, since we've already ruled out noise via system
conduction.
Check the SWR. If this is reasonable to do, I'd prolly buy a meter
for $50. My comm antenna is 22" long that I made from a cut down CB
antenna. If it shows >3, I'd fix it or buy a real one.
I'll make sure athe alternator leads going to the voltage
regulator are twisted.
Replace the coil to distributor lead with noiseless wire. Some
have had success with this, but most have tamed the noise with beads
after using noiseless plug wires. I don't want to replace this stock
coil lead, since I'm not sure I could make a secure connection and I'm
doubtful it would do any good.
Any sugestions?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373137#373137
==========
-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
05/16/12
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
> you have a large, well connected ground cable
Yes
> . If there is a problem with both Transmit and receive then look to the
> Antenna and Feedline or the radio itself.
Seems reasonable. A hangar neighbor dropped off his SWR meter. I'll get an adapter
and check things tomorrow.
Thanks!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373209#373209
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fedico94(at)mchsi.com |
| Subject: | Re: Challenging and perplexing |
Just a coincidence, but I need to replace my trolling motor battery. Amazing how
cheap lead acid batteries have become. Carries Exide name but suspect maybe
3rd world, although we do have a battery plant for various labels includeing
exide about 60 miles from here (65 dollars 12v deep cycle)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:02:16 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Challenging and perplexing
Rather than buying a battery for just testing either borrow one or simply
use your car battery (with jumper cables if necessary) for a test.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94(at)mchsi.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:37 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Challenging and perplexing
>
>
> That was my first thought, but I would think a samll motor drawing 0.5
amps would
> still come on with some life. I thought I would inquire first before
buying a 25 dollar
> garden tractor battery. If that works then I will upgrade to the 90
dollar PC680. I did
> not see any problem with melted wires that supply ground at forest of
tabs. A
> grounding fault was another thought.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Challenging and perplexing
>
>
>
> Sounds like your battery is dead. If the battery itself is only showing 12
> volts it is not properly charged, it should be significantly higher than
> that (somewhere in the 12.4 volt range) and if the buss is showing only 10
> volts with minimal loads the battery is dead.
>
> Try substituting a fully charged known good battery just as a test and
> probably all will be well. (Assuming everything used to work properly.) A
> battery which has been discharged as low as 5.6 volts may not recover.
> Discharging a battery that far can sometimes be a death sentence for the
> battery.
>
> I just went to the garage and measured a battery which has been sitting
> unused and uncharged for about 18 months and it still measures 12.18 volts
> so if your freshly charged battery is only 12 volts it has serious issues.
>
> Bob McC
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fedico94(at)mchsi.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:29 PM
> > To: Nuckolls, Robert
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Challanging and perplexing
> >
> >
> > I built my electrical system per Z-13/20. On 2 seperate occassions I
> found that
> > someone had moved the E-Bus Alt Mater Switch to engage the only the
> Battery. The
> > first time they turned on the strobes and ran the battery down and this
> was quikly
> > reversed with recharging the battery (PC680)from 5.6 volts. This
occurred
> a second
> > time probably the radios left on. I had the battery recharged and it
> shows 12V on the
> > handheld meter. The E-bus Alt Master Switch will not allow the battery
> solenoid to
> > "click" on (purchased from B & C). I by passed this with an 18ga wire
so
> as to connect
> > the battery positive terminal directly to the main power bus
distribution
> side of the
> > battery contactor. I have 10 volts showing through the main power bus
and
> E-bus. I
> > engaged the avionics fan from the e-bus by pushing in the CB and the fan
> motor did
> > not engage. I tried the same with the defroster fan at the switch and
the
> motor did
> > not turn on. Both of these are low amperage and both showed !
> > 10 amps power with the handheld voltmeter downstream of the CB and
> Switch. No
> > electrical item (all that I have radios etc will not come on.
> >
> > I do not understand what the problem is ? The person who recharged my
> battery said
> > it recharged in 2 hours and only drew about 2 amps.
> >
> >
> > _-
> >
> ====================================================
> > ======
> > _-
> >
> ====================================================
> > ======
> > _-
> >
> ====================================================
> > ======
> > _-
> >
> ====================================================
> > ======
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste |
Hi People,=0A=0AI would like to know what opinions you have on anti-corrosi
ve zinc paste to make our connections more reliable. -Below is a link to
an article on how ACZP helps make better connections by supplying sacrifici
al zinc ions to stop or decrease corrosion at the push on connector's mecha
nical linkage, which actually supplies the electrical connection. -The tw
o pastes he mentions, Burndy Penetrox and Ideal Noalox, seem to do the job
but are either too far on the right or left when it comes to consistency.
-Do you guys think that ACZP will help with our normal push on connectors
that we use in aviation, and/or do you have a product recommendation that
is better than these two products? -I do have an application to wire ligh
ts on a large road trailor, and I would like to use ACZP on those connectio
ns, since road surfaces can be covered with all sorts of nasty corrosive su
bstances. -Perhaps a ACZP can have a good application there to keep out a
ll the nasties.
-What do you guys think? -Eric, you're pretty good on surfaces corrodi
ng. -What do you think? -You, too, Bob.=0A=0A- - -http://sw-em.co
m/anti_corrosive_paste.htm=0A=0AThanks.=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste |
>What do you think? You, too, Bob.
>
>
><http://sw-em.com/anti_corrosive_paste.htm>http://sw-em.com/anti_corrosive_paste.htm
The article states in part:
Why anyone would want to apply an insulating grease on a place where
you want a good electrical connection is beyond me
Simple: The "insulating grease" is not intended as an enhancement
to conductivity but an protectant from environmental intrusion.
Think of it as a kind of brush-on potting compound.
. . . because if it got between the contacts, it would actually be
degrading the connection,
Okay, let's explore that statement. When you're mating up two
metallic conductors, the ideal joint is represented by the
crimped-on terminal where the two metals are deformed into each
other by applying forces that cause the metals to fail in compression.
I.e., they are literally molded into one piece. What's
the compression strength of copper? Compare that to the compression
strength of silicon grease. The idea that any grease would remain
within the mate-up of the two metals is simply not supported by
facts. Now, the extruded grease will remain in place just outside
the volume where the two conductors became one. This residual grease
that protects the joint from incursion of antagonistic moisture
and gasses.
A similar but less violent joining happens when you mash a
terminal down on a stud. Where the two metals join, they
conform to each other and the grease is extruded out of the
joint.
Irrespective of the 'magic' qualities of any joint additive
for electrical connections, the joint NEVER gets any better
than it was right after two, clean conductors were properly
mated to each other for the first time. Whether it maintains
that integrity is a not a function of keeping the electrons
in but keeping the nasties out. Good ol' Dow Corning DC-4 or
similar does that quite nicely.
Back when I used to climb towers for a living, coax connectors
were often mated after packing the contact cavity with DC-4.
The stuff oozed out of the mated connector. Never saw or heard
of a connector so-treated becoming electrically unreliable or
mechanically corroded. To understand how that stuff works
you need to imagine yourself 0.00001" tall, standing just
outside a new joint and watching what happens as the ratchet
handles are closed, the nut driver twisted or the connector
back shell being spun down tight.
No magic, just ordinary strength of materials.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste |
Henador;
Bear in mind that both of the proprietary products you mention are
specifically manufactured for preventing the corrosion of Aluminium wiring
connections so they should be particularly effective at keeping oxygen out
of the joint. When making crimped connections on Aluminium Hydro
transmission lines the process was to strip the insulation, brush the
conductors bright with a stainless steel brush, dip the wire into the pot of
Penetrox, and then install the connector with a hydraulic crimper. Never
heard of a failure of any joints done this way even in the rather harsh
environment of the mining industry.
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:01 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste
Hi People,
I would like to know what opinions you have on anti-corrosive zinc paste to
make our connections more reliable. Below is a link to an article on how
ACZP helps make better connections by supplying sacrificial zinc ions to
stop or decrease corrosion at the push on connector's mechanical linkage,
which actually supplies the electrical connection. The two pastes he
mentions, Burndy Penetrox and Ideal Noalox, seem to do the job but are
either too far on the right or left when it comes to consistency. Do you
guys think that ACZP will help with our normal push on connectors that we
use in aviation, and/or do you have a product recommendation that is better
than these two products? I do have an application to wire lights on a large
road trailor, and I would like to use ACZP on those connections, since road
surfaces can be covered with all sorts of nasty corrosive substances.
Perhaps a ACZP can have a good application there to keep out all the
nasties. What do you guys think? Eric, you're pretty good on surfaces
corroding. What do you think? You, too, Bob.
http://sw-em.com/anti_corrosive_paste.htm
Thanks.
Henador Titzoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste |
Well, he does admit that his ACZP is also an insulation grease, but it has
zinc in it, acting as sacrificial anodes; therefore, the only difference is
the zinc.=0A=0ADoes everyone agree that insulating grease will increase re
liability due to its ability to keep corroding agents out? -If corroding
agents start at the periphery of where the two metals are slammed together
to form the conducting surface, the grease can serve to stop the corrosion
before it eats away at the conducting surface. -Maybe I'm worried about a
problem that doesn't exist, but I have an application where the slide on c
onnectors are going to be exposed to highway conditions. over a period of y
ears. -Maybe I should be using butt connectors with shrink tubing instead
?=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From:
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" =0ATo: aeroelectr
ic-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:36 PM=0ASubject: Re
: AeroElectric-List: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste=0A =0A=0AWhat do you think?
- You,=0Atoo, Bob.=0A>=0A>----=0Ahttp://sw-em.com/anti_corrosive_
paste.htm=0A>=0AThe article states in part:=0A=0AWhy anyone would want to a
pply an insulating grease on a place where you want a good electrical=0Acon
nection is beyond me=0A=0ASimple: The "insulating grease" is not intended a
s=0Aan enhancement=0Ato conductivity but an protectant from environmental i
ntrusion.=0AThink of it as a kind of brush-on potting compound.=0A--
=0A=0A. . . because if it got=0Abetween the contacts, it would actually be
degrading the connection, =0A=0AOkay, let's explore that statement. When yo
u're mating up=0Atwo=0Ametallic conductors, the ideal joint is represented
by the=0Acrimped-on terminal where the two metals are deformed into each=0A
other by applying forces that cause the metals to fail in=0Acompression.=0A
=0AI.e., they are literally molded into one piece. What's=0Athe compression
strength of copper? Compare that to the compression=0Astrength of silicon
grease. The idea that any grease would remain=0Awithin the mate-up of the t
wo metals is simply not supported by=0Afacts. Now, the extruded grease will
remain in place just outside=0Athe volume where the two conductors became
one. This residual grease=0Athat protects the joint from incursion of antag
onistic moisture=0Aand gasses.=0A=0AA similar but less violent joining happ
ens when you mash a=0Aterminal down on a stud. Where the two metals join, t
hey=0Aconform to each other and the grease is extruded out of the=0Ajoint.
=0A=0AIrrespective of the 'magic' qualities of any joint additive=0Afor ele
ctrical connections, the joint NEVER gets any better=0Athan it was right af
ter two, clean conductors were properly=0Amated to each other for the first
time. Whether it maintains=0Athat integrity is a not a function of keeping
the electrons=0Ain but keeping the nasties out. Good ol' Dow Corning DC-4
or=0Asimilar does that quite nicely.=0A=0ABack when I used to climb towers
for a living, coax connectors=0Awere often mated after packing the contact
cavity with DC-4.=0AThe stuff oozed out of the mated connector. Never saw o
r heard=0Aof a connector so-treated becoming electrically unreliable or=0Am
echanically corroded.- To understand how that stuff works=0Ayou need to i
magine yourself 0.00001" tall, standing just=0Aoutside a new joint and watc
hing what happens as the ratchet=0Ahandles are closed, the nut driver twist
ed or the connector=0Aback shell being spun down tight.=0A=0ANo magic, just
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste |
Myself and many of my associates use dielectric grease on our trailers
and boats. Anecdotal experience has been that it is beneficial, and at
a minimum, does no harm.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 05/17/2012 05:59 PM, Henador Titzoff wrote:
> Well, he does admit that his ACZP is also an insulation grease, but it
> has zinc in it, acting as sacrificial anodes; therefore, the only
> difference is the zinc.
>
> Does everyone agree that insulating grease will increase reliability due
> to its ability to keep corroding agents out? If corroding agents start
> at the periphery of where the two metals are slammed together to form
> the conducting surface, the grease can serve to stop the corrosion
> before it eats away at the conducting surface. Maybe I'm worried about a
> problem that doesn't exist, but I have an application where the slide on
> connectors are going to be exposed to highway conditions. over a period
> of years. Maybe I should be using butt connectors with shrink tubing
> instead?
> Henador Titzoff
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:36 PM
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste
>
>> What do you think? You, too, Bob.
>>
>> http://sw-em.com/anti_corrosive_paste.htm
>
> The article states in part:
>
> *Why anyone would want to apply an /insulating/ grease on a place where
> you want a good electrical connection is beyond m**e
>
> *Simple: The "insulating grease" is not intended as an enhancement
> to conductivity but an protectant from environmental intrusion.
> Think of it as a kind of brush-on potting compound.
>
>
> *. . . because if it got between the contacts, it would actually be
> degrading the connection,
>
> *Okay, let's explore that statement. When you're mating up two
> metallic conductors, the ideal joint is represented by the
> crimped-on terminal where the two metals are deformed into each
> other by applying forces that cause the metals to fail in compression.
>
> I.e., they are literally molded into one piece. What's
> the compression strength of copper? Compare that to the compression
> strength of silicon grease. The idea that any grease would remain
> within the mate-up of the two metals is simply not supported by
> facts. Now, the extruded grease will remain in place just outside
> the volume where the two conductors became one. This residual grease
> that protects the joint from incursion of antagonistic moisture
> and gasses.
>
> A similar but less violent joining happens when you mash a
> terminal down on a stud. Where the two metals join, they
> conform to each other and the grease is extruded out of the
> joint.
>
> Irrespective of the 'magic' qualities of any joint additive
> for electrical connections, the joint NEVER gets any better
> than it was right after two, clean conductors were properly
> mated to each other for the first time. Whether it maintains
> that integrity is a not a function of keeping the electrons
> in but keeping the nasties out. Good ol' Dow Corning DC-4 or
> similar does that quite nicely.
>
> Back when I used to climb towers for a living, coax connectors
> were often mated after packing the contact cavity with DC-4.
> The stuff oozed out of the mated connector. Never saw or heard
> of a connector so-treated becoming electrically unreliable or
> mechanically corroded. To understand how that stuff works
> you need to imagine yourself 0.00001" tall, standing just
> outside a new joint and watching what happens as the ratchet
> handles are closed, the nut driver twisted or the connector
> back shell being spun down tight.
>
> No magic, just ordinary strength of materials.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric--===========================================
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> *
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Challenging and perplexing |
I wonder if the real reason lead acid batteries have become cheaper is beca
use they aren't using virgin lead. -Recycling lead makes a lot of sense,
but I've read that recycled lead makes for not only cheaper but also inferi
or batteries - inferior meaning shorter battery life. -Does anyone on thi
s list have actual statistical or analytic data/knowledge that suggests rec
ycled lead makes for shorter battery lives?=0A=0AThanks.=0A-=0AHenador Ti
a coincidence, but I need to replace my trolling motor battery. Amazing h
ow cheap lead acid batteries have become. Carries Exide name but suspect m
aybe 3rd world, although we do have a battery plant for various labels inc
ludeing exide about 60 miles from here (65 dollars 12v deep cycle)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
My SWR's all came in less than 2.1, thank Gawd! But wait, there's more. Here's
what I posted on the MGL forum:
While trying to sort out my ignition noise issues, I had some odd things happen
with my V6.
To isolate everything I could, the only wires connected to the V6 are the 4 audio
jacks (which are for sure isolated from the panel), the ground (goes directly
to the negative of a separate battery ), the supply (separate battery), and
the antenna on top of the tailcone.
The V6 is located in the middle of my Sonex panel, ~2' off the floor, 2' behind
the firewall. I turn it on and get good reception. Start the engine and the reception
vanishes. I can't even get the blasted ignition noise. Rebooting the
V6 with the engine running doesn't do anything. Kill the engine and there's still
no reception. Adjusting the squelch does nothing. And this is with the engine
turned off after having run for a minute. The only thing that lets the V6
get reception again is to reboot it AFTER the engine is off.
The antenna, when installed, did not have a ground fault. When a handheld is swapped
out for the V6, it does just fine. Even if the antenna had a ground fault
to the airframe, could that cause the V6 to lose reception? There's no ground
route back to the V6. If so, then why doesn't the handheld behave the same way
when it is connected to the same antenna? It works just fine with the same
cable and antenna.
Next time I'm at the airport, I'll connect a portable antenna to make sure there's
no ground problem. Any other suggestions?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373257#373257
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Challenging and perplexing |
If you price aircraft batteries or name brand car batteries, the prices
have about doubled in the last 5-6 yrs. 12V aircraft battery used to be
a little over $100, now most are over $200. And Absorbed Glass Mat
sealed batteries are now a little cheaper than the old wet acid batteries.
On 5/17/2012 6:15 PM, Henador Titzoff wrote:
> I wonder if the real reason lead acid batteries have become cheaper is
> because they aren't using virgin lead. Recycling lead makes a lot of
> sense, but I've read that recycled lead makes for not only cheaper but
> also inferior batteries - inferior meaning shorter battery life. Does
> anyone on this list have actual statistical or analytic data/knowledge
> that suggests recycled lead makes for shorter battery lives?
>
> Thanks.
> Henador Titzoff
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:fedico94(at)mchsi.com
>
> Just a coincidence, but I need to replace my trolling motor battery. Amazing
how cheap lead acid batteries have become. Carries Exide name but suspect maybe
3rd world, although we do have a battery plant for various labels includeing
exide about 60 miles from here (65 dollars 12v deep cycle)
> *
>
>
> *
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John MacCallum" <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste |
I used Penetrox on a 9El Log Periodic for 13-29 mhz and also on 2 x 13 EL
Long Boom 2m Yagis. Up in the Air for about 5 years.
The joints out lasted the feedlines after the White Cockatoos got them L
Cheers
John MacCallum
RV10 41016
VH-DUU
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 9:00 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste
Henador;
Bear in mind that both of the proprietary products you mention are
specifically manufactured for preventing the corrosion of Aluminium wiring
connections so they should be particularly effective at keeping oxygen out
of the joint. When making crimped connections on Aluminium Hydro
transmission lines the process was to strip the insulation, brush the
conductors bright with a stainless steel brush, dip the wire into the pot of
Penetrox, and then install the connector with a hydraulic crimper. Never
heard of a failure of any joints done this way even in the rather harsh
environment of the mining industry.
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:01 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste
Hi People,
I would like to know what opinions you have on anti-corrosive zinc paste to
make our connections more reliable. Below is a link to an article on how
ACZP helps make better connections by supplying sacrificial zinc ions to
stop or decrease corrosion at the push on connector's mechanical linkage,
which actually supplies the electrical connection. The two pastes he
mentions, Burndy Penetrox and Ideal Noalox, seem to do the job but are
either too far on the right or left when it comes to consistency. Do you
guys think that ACZP will help with our normal push on connectors that we
use in aviation, and/or do you have a product recommendation that is better
than these two products? I do have an application to wire lights on a large
road trailor, and I would like to use ACZP on those connections, since road
surfaces can be covered with all sorts of nasty corrosive substances.
Perhaps a ACZP can have a good application there to keep out all the
nasties. What do you guys think? Eric, you're pretty good on surfaces
corroding. What do you think? You, too, Bob.
http://sw-em.com/anti_corrosive_paste.htm
Thanks.
Henador Titzoff
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Henador;
As Bob and others have said, ACZP, which is probably zinc oxide + silicone grease,
has the merits of keeping environmentals out of the joint while also transferring
heat. The glop used to stick your microprocessor to its heat sink is usually
zinc oxide/silicone grease.
Many substances make good electrical joint sealant, and yes, putting insulating
grease on a conductive joint makes perfect sense, since the grease only replaces
existing insulating air gaps. Sometimes people use silver paste, but not because
it's electrically conductive--silver is a better heat conductor.
Why any notion of zinc being "sacrificial" comes up is beyond me. You certainly
wouldn't want to use it if it was.
The only reason not to use it is that it is messy. Otherwise it would be everywhere.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373289#373289
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
If " When a handheld is swapped out for the V6, it does just fine" means
that it doesn't repeat any of the faults of the MGL radio, get an RA number
and send the MGL back to the manufacturer to have it fixed or replaced.
Rick Girard
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:46 PM, messydeer wrote:
>
> My SWR's all came in less than 2.1, thank Gawd! But wait, there's more.
> Here's what I posted on the MGL forum:
>
> While trying to sort out my ignition noise issues, I had some odd things
> happen with my V6.
>
> To isolate everything I could, the only wires connected to the V6 are the
> 4 audio jacks (which are for sure isolated from the panel), the ground
> (goes directly to the negative of a separate battery ), the supply
> (separate battery), and the antenna on top of the tailcone.
>
> The V6 is located in the middle of my Sonex panel, ~2' off the floor, 2'
> behind the firewall. I turn it on and get good reception. Start the engine
> and the reception vanishes. I can't even get the blasted ignition noise.
> Rebooting the V6 with the engine running doesn't do anything. Kill the
> engine and there's still no reception. Adjusting the squelch does nothing.
> And this is with the engine turned off after having run for a minute. The
> only thing that lets the V6 get reception again is to reboot it AFTER the
> engine is off.
>
> The antenna, when installed, did not have a ground fault. When a handheld
> is swapped out for the V6, it does just fine. Even if the antenna had a
> ground fault to the airframe, could that cause the V6 to lose reception?
> There's no ground route back to the V6. If so, then why doesn't the
> handheld behave the same way when it is connected to the same antenna? It
> works just fine with the same cable and antenna.
>
> Next time I'm at the airport, I'll connect a portable antenna to make sure
> there's no ground problem. Any other suggestions?
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373257#373257
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D L Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anti-corrosive paste |
On 5/17/12 11:57 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
> Hi People,=0A=0AI would like to know what opinions you have on
> anti-corrosi ve zinc paste to make our connections more reliable.
> -Below is a link to an article on how ACZP helps make better
> connections by
Bob has explained thoroughly about what's happening here. Let's go a
few steps further. The idea is to make the metal-to-metal contact area
of the conductors as large as possible by forming them into each other,
and to exclude any contaminants that might get between the metals. Any
nonconductive contaminant reduces the size of the contact area, which
increases the resistance. Most troublesome are oxides and salts of the
metals, which occur when air, water and other chemicals eventually
convert the metal to something else, producing a barrier between the two
parts. Zinc chromate paste excludes water to some extent but its main
function is to combine chemically with *aluminum* to produce a thin
chemical film that is conductive, and to prevent the formation of
aluminum oxides which are not. I don't know whether any such reaction
occurs with copper, I haven't seen "ACZP" used for this purpose.
The idea of using a grease like silicone (DC4) is based entirely on
excluding air and water. Silicone grease is used on microwave and RF
connections because it doesn't badly compromise the dielectric constant
of insulators it gets on. But for DC, any ordinary grease will do; it
also lubricates the parts as they are being crushed by the wrench or
crimper, so they can conform to each other's surfaces more readily. The
very best grease for this purpose has been used for nearly 100 years for
all kinds of high current applications by the telephone company, but it
seems to be a secret in the light aviation industry. I first learned of
it at a helicopter battery shop where they made their own version, with
a little more solvent added so it could be painted on. It's cheap and
readily available. It's a combination of petroleum grease, some waxes to
make it stiff and some amines to make it penetrate into joints and
spread throughout the voids in the contact over time. It is closely
related to "cosmoline" and is called No-Ox-Id "A Special" made since the
early 1910s by Sanchem in Chicago. A big tube of it sells on eBay for
about $10 but you can buy cases of 24 at less than $5 apiece. You can
see the various other versions of No-Ox-Id on their site. A-Special is
thinned out a little so it can be squeezed out of a tube (if the tube is
a little warm.) You only need a very thin film but you can coat all the
metal parts with this, clamp them together and you're done.
I have taken apart telephone company installations more than 50 years
old that had this stuff in all their joints and there has never been any
corrosion. Many fleet operators use it on battery posts and terminals to
keep the lead from corroding, you can even massage it into the joint
between the post and the battery case to slow down the battery acid
vapors from getting to the post that way. I started using it on aircraft
and automotive things about 30 years ago and it just works.
--
David Josephson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wynn" <wynaire(at)citlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anti-corrosive paste |
Thanks for an extremely helpful reply on the subject of pastes.
It's time to add another goody to the tool box!
M. Wynn/A&P, LNC2 bld'r.
*********
----- Original Message -----
From: "D L Josephson" <dlj04(at)josephson.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Anti-corrosive paste
>
>
> On 5/17/12 11:57 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
>> Hi People,=0A=0AI would like to know what opinions you have on
>> anti-corrosi ve zinc paste to make our connections more reliable. -Below
>> is a link to an article on how ACZP helps make better connections by
> Bob has explained thoroughly about what's happening here. Let's go a few
> steps further. The idea is to make the metal-to-metal contact area of the
> conductors as large as possible by forming them into each other, and to
> exclude any contaminants that might get between the metals. Any
> nonconductive contaminant reduces the size of the contact area, which
> increases the resistance. Most troublesome are oxides and salts of the
> metals, which occur when air, water and other chemicals eventually convert
> the metal to something else, producing a barrier between the two parts.
> Zinc chromate paste excludes water to some extent but its main function is
> to combine chemically with *aluminum* to produce a thin chemical film that
> is conductive, and to prevent the formation of aluminum oxides which are
> not. I don't know whether any such reaction occurs with copper, I haven't
> seen "ACZP" used for this purpose.
>
> The idea of using a grease like silicone (DC4) is based entirely on
> excluding air and water. Silicone grease is used on microwave and RF
> connections because it doesn't badly compromise the dielectric constant of
> insulators it gets on. But for DC, any ordinary grease will do; it also
> lubricates the parts as they are being crushed by the wrench or crimper,
> so they can conform to each other's surfaces more readily. The very best
> grease for this purpose has been used for nearly 100 years for all kinds
> of high current applications by the telephone company, but it seems to be
> a secret in the light aviation industry. I first learned of it at a
> helicopter battery shop where they made their own version, with a little
> more solvent added so it could be painted on. It's cheap and readily
> available. It's a combination of petroleum grease, some waxes to make it
> stiff and some amines to make it penetrate into joints and spread
> throughout the voids in the contact over time. It is closely related to
> "cosmoline" and is called No-Ox-Id "A Special" made since the early 1910s
> by Sanchem in Chicago. A big tube of it sells on eBay for about $10 but
> you can buy cases of 24 at less than $5 apiece. You can see the various
> other versions of No-Ox-Id on their site. A-Special is thinned out a
> little so it can be squeezed out of a tube (if the tube is a little warm.)
> You only need a very thin film but you can coat all the metal parts with
> this, clamp them together and you're done.
>
> I have taken apart telephone company installations more than 50 years old
> that had this stuff in all their joints and there has never been any
> corrosion. Many fleet operators use it on battery posts and terminals to
> keep the lead from corroding, you can even massage it into the joint
> between the post and the battery case to slow down the battery acid vapors
> from getting to the post that way. I started using it on aircraft and
> automotive things about 30 years ago and it just works.
>
> --
> David Josephson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anti-corrosive paste |
| From: | Bill <wtrooper(at)gmail.com> |
Hi David -
This sounds similar in application to Par-Al-Ketone - used on aircraft
flight and engine control cables. Do you know of this product, and is it
similar No-Ox-Id?
See Wick's offering below:
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=10183/index.html
Bill
SF bay area
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:45 AM, D L Josephson wrote:
> dlj04(at)josephson.com>
>
> On 5/17/12 11:57 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
>
>> Hi People,=0A=0AI would like to know what opinions you have on
>> anti-corrosi ve zinc paste to make our connections more reliable. -Below is
>> a link to an article on how ACZP helps make better connections by
>>
> Bob has explained thoroughly about what's happening here. Let's go a few
> steps further. The idea is to make the metal-to-metal contact area of the
> conductors as large as possible by forming them into each other, and to
> exclude any contaminants that might get between the metals. Any
> nonconductive contaminant reduces the size of the contact area, which
> increases the resistance. Most troublesome are oxides and salts of the
> metals, which occur when air, water and other chemicals eventually convert
> the metal to something else, producing a barrier between the two parts.
> Zinc chromate paste excludes water to some extent but its main function is
> to combine chemically with *aluminum* to produce a thin chemical film that
> is conductive, and to prevent the formation of aluminum oxides which are
> not. I don't know whether any such reaction occurs with copper, I haven't
> seen "ACZP" used for this purpose.
>
> The idea of using a grease like silicone (DC4) is based entirely on
> excluding air and water. Silicone grease is used on microwave and RF
> connections because it doesn't badly compromise the dielectric constant of
> insulators it gets on. But for DC, any ordinary grease will do; it also
> lubricates the parts as they are being crushed by the wrench or crimper, so
> they can conform to each other's surfaces more readily. The very best
> grease for this purpose has been used for nearly 100 years for all kinds of
> high current applications by the telephone company, but it seems to be a
> secret in the light aviation industry. I first learned of it at a
> helicopter battery shop where they made their own version, with a little
> more solvent added so it could be painted on. It's cheap and readily
> available. It's a combination of petroleum grease, some waxes to make it
> stiff and some amines to make it penetrate into joints and spread
> throughout the voids in the contact over time. It is closely related to
> "cosmoline" and is called No-Ox-Id "A Special" made since the early 1910s
> by Sanchem in Chicago. A big tube of it sells on eBay for about $10 but you
> can buy cases of 24 at less than $5 apiece. You can see the various other
> versions of No-Ox-Id on their site. A-Special is thinned out a little so it
> can be squeezed out of a tube (if the tube is a little warm.) You only need
> a very thin film but you can coat all the metal parts with this, clamp them
> together and you're done.
>
> I have taken apart telephone company installations more than 50 years old
> that had this stuff in all their joints and there has never been any
> corrosion. Many fleet operators use it on battery posts and terminals to
> keep the lead from corroding, you can even massage it into the joint
> between the post and the battery case to slow down the battery acid vapors
> from getting to the post that way. I started using it on aircraft and
> automotive things about 30 years ago and it just works.
>
> --
> David Josephson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anti-corrosive paste |
Isn't that how they market dialectic grease available for $2 at Home Depot? That
will likely work for the electrical parts you can access which means the electrical
parts will outlast the rest of the airplane - for the body you simply
take out all of the rivets between the non-compatible parts and puts some grease
in there and rivet them back together. Good luck inside the wings. When your
AP tells you your wing is rotting inside out from the same problem, have a
check ready. Oh, and you do realize on older airplanes the wire covering will
rot and short out only while you are flying at night before the connectors oxidize.
When the skin comes off that big breaker wire in the panel on the old jobs,
it's a real light show.
I'm sticking with carbon/fiberglass for the body. When I'm gone the wife can use
it as a lawn ornament. The Buss panels you buy from B&C will probably last longer
than you own your airplane. If not, they are < $20 to replace. If you smoke
and would buy electrical parts each day instead of cigarettes, you could replace
all the parts every weekend :)
They also sell a kit that will charge - ions with + 1's to stave the rust advance
- I've no idea if that swamp land idea works. Since many folks use some kind
of battery tender anyway you can run a cord with a 25 watt bulb attached and
hang it in your avionics bay. Cheapest insurance available. Of course you can
also move to Arizona and just park in the field under an umbrella. Be sure to
disconnect the light bulb before you fly away.
Have a great weekend everybody,
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Anti-corrosive paste
Hi David -
This sounds similar in application to Par-Al-Ketone - used on aircraft flight and
engine control cables. Do you know of this product, and is it similar No-Ox-Id?
See Wick's offering below:
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=10183/index.html
Bill
SF bay area
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:45 AM, D L Josephson wrote:
> dlj04(at)josephson.com>
>
> On 5/17/12 11:57 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
>
>> Hi People,=0A=0AI would like to know what opinions you have on
>> anti-corrosi ve zinc paste to make our connections more reliable.
>> -Below is a link to an article on how ACZP helps make better
>> connections by
>>
> Bob has explained thoroughly about what's happening here. Let's go a
> few steps further. The idea is to make the metal-to-metal contact area
> of the conductors as large as possible by forming them into each
> other, and to exclude any contaminants that might get between the
> metals. Any nonconductive contaminant reduces the size of the contact
> area, which increases the resistance. Most troublesome are oxides and
> salts of the metals, which occur when air, water and other chemicals
> eventually convert the metal to something else, producing a barrier between the
two parts.
> Zinc chromate paste excludes water to some extent but its main
> function is to combine chemically with *aluminum* to produce a thin
> chemical film that is conductive, and to prevent the formation of
> aluminum oxides which are not. I don't know whether any such reaction
> occurs with copper, I haven't seen "ACZP" used for this purpose.
>
> The idea of using a grease like silicone (DC4) is based entirely on
> excluding air and water. Silicone grease is used on microwave and RF
> connections because it doesn't badly compromise the dielectric
> constant of insulators it gets on. But for DC, any ordinary grease
> will do; it also lubricates the parts as they are being crushed by the
> wrench or crimper, so they can conform to each other's surfaces more
> readily. The very best grease for this purpose has been used for
> nearly 100 years for all kinds of high current applications by the
> telephone company, but it seems to be a secret in the light aviation
> industry. I first learned of it at a helicopter battery shop where
> they made their own version, with a little more solvent added so it
> could be painted on. It's cheap and readily available. It's a
> combination of petroleum grease, some waxes to make it stiff and some
> amines to make it penetrate into joints and spread throughout the
> voids in the contact over time. It is closely related to "cosmoline"
> and is called No-Ox-Id "A Special" made since the early 1910s by
> Sanchem in Chicago. A big tube of it sells on eBay for about $10 but
> you can buy cases of 24 at less than $5 apiece. You can see the
> various other versions of No-Ox-Id on their site. A-Special is thinned
> out a little so it can be squeezed out of a tube (if the tube is a
> little warm.) You only need a very thin film but you can coat all the metal parts
with this, clamp them together and you're done.
>
> I have taken apart telephone company installations more than 50 years
> old that had this stuff in all their joints and there has never been
> any corrosion. Many fleet operators use it on battery posts and
> terminals to keep the lead from corroding, you can even massage it
> into the joint between the post and the battery case to slow down the
> battery acid vapors from getting to the post that way. I started using
> it on aircraft and automotive things about 30 years ago and it just works.
>
> --
> David Josephson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste |
Thank you for weighing in, Eric.- When attaching connectors to wires in
=0Aavionics and automotive applications, there isn't a need for increasing
=0Aheat transfer, so zinc is not needed.- A simple dielectric grease is
=0Asufficient, you say.- This is pretty much what Bob says, so I'll run
=0Awith it.=0A=0AThere are several posts from people about this, and I see
two more that I=0A haven't read.- Let me see what they say and hopefully
one of them will stand out on a recommended good grease at a good price and
readily available.=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A_______
_________________________=0A From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net>=0ATo
: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, May 18, 2012 9:07 AM=0AS
ubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste=0A =0A--> AeroElec
tric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" =0A=0AHen
ador; =0A=0AAs Bob and others have said, ACZP, which is probably zinc oxide
+ silicone grease, has the merits of keeping environmentals out of the joi
nt while also transferring heat. The glop used to stick your microprocessor
to its heat sink is usually zinc oxide/silicone grease.=0A=0AMany substanc
es make good electrical joint sealant, and yes, putting insulating grease o
n a conductive joint makes perfect sense, since the grease only replaces ex
isting insulating air gaps. Sometimes people use silver paste, but not beca
use it's electrically conductive--silver is a better heat conductor.=0A=0AW
hy any notion of zinc being "sacrificial" comes up is beyond me. You certai
nly wouldn't want to use it if it was. =0A=0AThe only reason not to use it
is that it is messy. Otherwise it would be everywhere.=0A=0A--------=0AEric
M. Jones=0Awww.PerihelionDesign.com=0A113 Brentwood Drive=0ASouthbridge, M
A 01550=0A(508) 764-2072=0Aemjones(at)charter.net=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this t
opic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373289
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anti-corrosive paste |
Dave,=0A=0AAs Mike says below, thanks for an extremely helpful reply on the
subject of pastes. -I'm gonna look for a tube of No-Ox-Id A Special to s
ee what it is like. -I'm going to compare it to the Permatex stuff one ca
n get at AutoZone to see which one I like better, as both are probably very
good for this application.=0A=0AThanks, everyone.=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0A From: Mike Wynn <wynaire(at)citlink.net
>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, May 18, 2012 2:02
PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Anti-corrosive paste=0A =0A--> Aer
oElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Wynn" =0A=0ATh
anks for an extremely helpful reply on the subject of pastes.=0AIt's time t
o add another goody to the tool box!=0AM. Wynn/A&P, LNC2 bld'r.=0A*********
=0A----- Original Message ----- From: "D L Josephson" <dlj04(at)josephson.com>
=0ATo: =0ASent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:45
AM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Anti-corrosive paste=0A=0A=0A> --> Ae
roElectric-List message posted by: D L Josephson =0A>
=0A> On 5/17/12 11:57 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:=0A>> Hi Pe
ople,=0A=0AI would like to know what opinions you have on anti-corrosi
ve zinc paste to make our connections more reliable. -Below is a link to an
article on how ACZP helps make better connections by=0A> Bob- has explai
ned thoroughly about what's happening here. Let's go a few steps further. T
he idea is to make the metal-to-metal contact area of the conductors as lar
ge as possible by forming them into each other, and to exclude any contamin
ants that might get between the metals. Any nonconductive contaminant reduc
es the size of the contact area, which increases the resistance. Most troub
lesome are oxides and salts of the metals, which occur when air, water and
other chemicals eventually convert the metal to something else, producing a
barrier between the two parts. Zinc chromate paste excludes water to some
extent but its main function is to combine chemically with *aluminum* to pr
oduce a thin chemical film that is conductive, and to prevent the formation
of aluminum oxides which are not. I don't know whether any such reaction o
ccurs with copper, I haven't seen "ACZP" used for this purpose.=0A> =0A> Th
e idea of using a grease like silicone (DC4) is based entirely on excluding
air and water. Silicone grease is used on microwave and RF connections bec
ause it doesn't badly compromise the dielectric constant of insulators it g
ets on. But for DC, any ordinary grease will do; it also lubricates the par
ts as they are being crushed by the wrench or crimper, so they can conform
to each other's surfaces more readily. The very best grease for this purpos
e has been used for nearly 100 years for all kinds of high current applicat
ions by the telephone company, but it seems to be a secret in the light avi
ation industry. I first learned of it at a helicopter battery shop where th
ey made their own version, with a little more solvent added so it could be
painted on. It's cheap and readily available. It's a combination of petrole
um grease, some waxes to make it stiff and some amines to make it penetrate
into joints and spread throughout the voids in the contact over
time. It is closely related to "cosmoline" and is called No-Ox-Id "A Speci
al" made since the early 1910s by Sanchem in Chicago. A big tube of it sell
s on eBay for about $10 but you can buy cases of 24 at less than $5 apiece.
You can see the various other versions of No-Ox-Id on their site. A-Specia
l is thinned out a little so it can be squeezed out of a tube (if the tube
is a little warm.) You only need a very thin film but you can coat all the
metal parts with this, clamp them together and you're done.=0A> =0A> I have
taken apart telephone company installations more than 50 years old that ha
d this stuff in all their joints and there has never been any corrosion. Ma
ny fleet operators use it on battery posts and terminals to keep the lead f
rom corroding, you can even massage it into the joint between the post and
the battery case to slow down the battery acid vapors from getting to the p
ost that way. I started using it on aircraft and automotive things about 30
years ago and it just works.=0A> =0A> --=0A> David Josephson=0A> =0A> =0A>
======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D L Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anti-corrosive paste |
As Bob mentioned, any grease will do for a while to keep moisture out,
which (along with lubricating the joint to reduce friction so the parts
conform when being squeezed together) is what you want. I think
par-al-ketone would work too but don't have any experience with it.
Penetrox is a little different, it contains 15% zinc dust in a castor
oil base, not zinc chromate as I had thought or zinc oxide as others had
assumed. It is intended not only to keep some moisture out but fill in
some of the gaps with a conductive medium. If you can keep it all in one
place, fine, but I don't think I want bits of
zinc-dust-containing-grease wandering around the airplane. I mentioned
No-Ox-Id because I know it works, and it stays where you put it. You
want a metal-to-metal contact, not through some intermediary metal
powder if you can avoid it.
--
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 05/18/12 |
I also have discovered the powerful anti-corrosion properties of No-Ox-Id "A
Special." I live away from the electric grid and depend on thousands of
pounds of lead acid batteries for power when the sun isn't shining. When I
bought my first set of batteries, the vendor included a quart can of
No-Ox-Id "A Special." I spread it on all the bare metal connectors around
the batteries, using a cheap flux brush. After close to 20 years, the
copper coated with it is still almost bright. The places I missed rapidly
tarnished and started corroding from the fumes given off when charging
batteries.
Of course, that's a pretty harsh environment. No-Ox-Id "A Special" works,
but I'm not sure it's needed on our airplanes. I didn't use it when
building my airplane.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8 |
| From: | "MikeDunlop" <mdunlop001(at)aol.com> |
I'm half way through a new installation of Z-13/8 and have just installed the AEC9001
Schottky diode as per diagram. On testing the installation at this point
with NO electrical devices connected I'm getting the following voltage reading
from the bus terminals:
DC PWR - Off
E-Bus - Off
Main Bat Bus - 12v
Main Pwr Bus - 0v
E-bus - 0v
DC PWR - On
E-Bus - Off
Main Bat Bus - 12v
Main Pwr Bus - 12v
E-bus - 12v
DC PWR - On
E-Bus - On
Main Bat Bus - 12v
Main Pwr Bus - 12v
E-bus - 12v
DC PWR - Off
E-Bus - On
Main Bat Bus - 12v
Main Pwr Bus - 8v
E-bus - 12v
Question: Why am I getting 8v on Main Pwr Bus on the last test?
The AEC90001 Schottky Diode is new from AeroElectric and has been installed exactly
as per instructions.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373361#373361
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John MacCallum" <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8 |
Hi Mike,
It's likely that the Meter you are using has a high Impedance and therefore
you can see a Voltage across the diode
When it's reverse Biased. If the Diode is working correctly it will not let
any current more than few Micro amps flow in the reverse
Direction. Try Using a Using a Diode Checker without applying a voltage to
the Diode. Alternatively Turn the E-Buss on and then
Apply a load to the Main Buss (light Bulb) and see what Voltage you read
then on the Main Buss.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
Rv 10 41016
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MikeDunlop
Sent: Sunday, 20 May 2012 6:59 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8
I'm half way through a new installation of Z-13/8 and have just installed
the AEC9001 Schottky diode as per diagram. On testing the installation at
this point with NO electrical devices connected I'm getting the following
voltage reading from the bus terminals:
DC PWR - Off
E-Bus - Off
Main Bat Bus - 12v
Main Pwr Bus - 0v
E-bus - 0v
DC PWR - On
E-Bus - Off
Main Bat Bus - 12v
Main Pwr Bus - 12v
E-bus - 12v
DC PWR - On
E-Bus - On
Main Bat Bus - 12v
Main Pwr Bus - 12v
E-bus - 12v
DC PWR - Off
E-Bus - On
Main Bat Bus - 12v
Main Pwr Bus - 8v
E-bus - 12v
Question: Why am I getting 8v on Main Pwr Bus on the last test?
The AEC90001 Schottky Diode is new from AeroElectric and has been installed
exactly as per instructions.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373361#373361
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8 |
Mike,=0A=0AThe 8V is due to leakage current through the reverse biased Scho
ttky diode.=0A=0ALet's assume that your voltmeter has an internal resistanc
e of 10 MOhms, which is a fairly high load resistance intended to not affec
t normal measurements. -However, in this case, it is forming a two resist
or voltage divider network with the high resistance of the reverse biased d
iode. -Assuming your voltmeter is indeed 10 MOhms, you can determine what
the reverse bias resistnace is by doing the math:=0A- - -1. You know
that the voltage across the 10 MOhms of your voltmeter is 8V; therefore, t
he current through it is E/R = 8/10M = 0.8 uA=0A- - -2. This curr
ent is a series current through both the Schottky diode and the voltmeter
=0A- - -3. Since the diode is dropping 4V, its reverse biased resista
nce is E/I = 4V/0.8 uA = 5 MOhms=0A=0AIt's as simple as that. -The to
tal resistance is 15 MOhms, and the diode's resistance is 5 MOhms; therefor
e, it drops 1/3 of the voltage. -If you really want to prove what I said,
get yourself another meter that has a much higher internal resistance (x10
) and see what voltage you measure. -It will go toward 12V.=0A=0AAnother
way to prove this is to do just the opposite. -Put a real world load on t
he E-bus. -Its relatively low internal resistance will cause most or all
of the voltage to appear across the diode; therefore, the E-bus will very c
lose to 0V.=0A=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________
_=0A From: MikeDunlop <mdunlop001(at)aol.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronic
s.com =0ASent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:58 PM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List:
AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8=0A =0A--> AeroElectric-List message poste
d by: "MikeDunlop" =0A=0AI'm half way through a new ins
tallation of Z-13/8 and have just installed the AEC9001 Schottky diode as p
er diagram.- On testing the installation at this point with NO electrical
devices connected I'm getting the following voltage reading from the bus t
erminals:=0A=0ADC PWR- - - - Off=0AE-Bus- - - - - Off=0AMain
Bat Bus - 12v=0AMain Pwr Bus -- 0v=0AE-bus- - - - -- 0v=0A=0AD
C PWR- - - - On=0AE-Bus- - - - - Off=0AMain Bat Bus - 12v=0A
Main Pwr Bus - 12v=0AE-bus- - - - - 12v=0A=0ADC PWR- - - - O
n=0AE-Bus- - - - - On=0AMain Bat Bus - 12v=0AMain Pwr Bus - 12v=0AE
-bus- - - - - 12v=0A=0ADC PWR- - - - Off=0AE-Bus- - -
- - On=0AMain Bat Bus - 12v=0AMain Pwr Bus -- 8v=0AE-bus- - - -
- 12v=0A=0A=0AQuestion: Why am I getting 8v on Main Pwr Bus on the last te
st?=0A=0AThe AEC90001 Schottky Diode is new from AeroElectric and has been
installed exactly as per instructions.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online
here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373361#373361=0A
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8 |
| From: | "MikeDunlop" <mdunlop001(at)aol.com> |
Many thanks for the quick replies. I will check as per your suggestions and also
make sure my test equipment and knowledge of electrics are suitable for the
job at hand. I'm sure that throughout this installation, both are going to
be needed.
MikeD (U.K.)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373366#373366
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8 |
Your battery should be putting out more than 12 volts. On my
installation, I see about .2 to .3 volt difference between the main
power switch and the alternate feed switch due to the draw of the
contactor. In other words, if you see 12v on the battery bus and 12v on
the power bus then I would suspect your voltmeter is not accurate.
john
On 5/19/2012 1:58 PM, MikeDunlop wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "MikeDunlop"
>
> I'm half way through a new installation of Z-13/8 and have just installed the
AEC9001 Schottky diode as per diagram. On testing the installation at this point
with NO electrical devices connected I'm getting the following voltage reading
from the bus terminals:
>
> DC PWR - Off
> E-Bus - Off
> Main Bat Bus - 12v
> Main Pwr Bus - 0v
> E-bus - 0v
>
> DC PWR - On
> E-Bus - Off
> Main Bat Bus - 12v
> Main Pwr Bus - 12v
> E-bus - 12v
>
> DC PWR - On
> E-Bus - On
> Main Bat Bus - 12v
> Main Pwr Bus - 12v
> E-bus - 12v
>
> DC PWR - Off
> E-Bus - On
> Main Bat Bus - 12v
> Main Pwr Bus - 8v
> E-bus - 12v
>
>
> Question: Why am I getting 8v on Main Pwr Bus on the last test?
>
> The AEC90001 Schottky Diode is new from AeroElectric and has been installed exactly
as per instructions.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373361#373361
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8 |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
As others have mentioned, the problem is in how you use your tools...like the voltmeter.
Imagine that you have a voltmeter that is infinitely sensitive (infinite impedance).
Now it will measure the battery voltage even thru an open switch. In fact,
it will measure 500 volts between your belt buckle and your shoe laces. And
the top of your hat will be 1000 volts higher than the soles of your New Balance
sneakers. You can actually extract some tiny amount of power this way.
So meter impedance is not a lack of quality in a meter, it is a necessary and useful
characteristic of the measuring device. And in a solid state circuit (like
a diode), there will almost always be a voltage on the output that is similar
to the input voltage even when the meter is off. And in fact the "leakage voltage"
will not be able to light even the tiniest LED...so ignore it.
I once designed a Cmos circuit where somebody (okay, me...) forgot to add the power
trace to the IC. Years later, an inquisitive technician, tracing an unrelated
fault discovered it, but all the shipped product had worked just fine.
So just don't make voltage measurements like this.
See attached for a better way.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373387#373387
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/diode_test_116.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8 |
Eric,
This sounds like the possible explanation for a problem that I solved but
never understood. Still don't... even if this is the explanation! :>)
20 years ago, I had a sprinkler zone that would not come on. I checked
voltage at the solenoid and found 12V, so I assumed that the solenoid was
bad. I replaced it...still didn't work! I then checked the original
solenoid at the control box. It worked! Hmmmm!
I ran new wires out to the valve from the controller box hooked up the
original solenoid and it worked! Problem solved.
I have never understood how I could have 12V at the solenoid and it would
not work. Is this an explanation and if so how??
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:22 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8
As others have mentioned, the problem is in how you use your tools...like
the voltmeter.
Imagine that you have a voltmeter that is infinitely sensitive (infinite
impedance). Now it will measure the battery voltage even thru an open
switch. In fact, it will measure 500 volts between your belt buckle and your
shoe laces. And the top of your hat will be 1000 volts higher than the soles
of your New Balance sneakers. You can actually extract some tiny amount of
power this way.
So meter impedance is not a lack of quality in a meter, it is a necessary
and useful characteristic of the measuring device. And in a solid state
circuit (like a diode), there will almost always be a voltage on the output
that is similar to the input voltage even when the meter is off. And in fact
the "leakage voltage" will not be able to light even the tiniest LED...so
ignore it.
I once designed a Cmos circuit where somebody (okay, me...) forgot to add
the power trace to the IC. Years later, an inquisitive technician, tracing
an unrelated fault discovered it, but all the shipped product had worked
just fine.
So just don't make voltage measurements like this.
See attached for a better way.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373387#373387
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/diode_test_116.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8 |
Broken wire, bit of moisture, easily enough to "power" the meter. (Read the
voltage)
No direct connection to actually pass current to power the relatively large
solenoid power requirements.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:50 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8
>
>
>
> Eric,
> This sounds like the possible explanation for a problem that I solved but
> never understood. Still don't... even if this is the explanation! :>)
>
> 20 years ago, I had a sprinkler zone that would not come on. I checked
> voltage at the solenoid and found 12V, so I assumed that the solenoid was
> bad. I replaced it...still didn't work! I then checked the original
> solenoid at the control box. It worked! Hmmmm!
>
> I ran new wires out to the valve from the controller box hooked up the
> original solenoid and it worked! Problem solved.
>
> I have never understood how I could have 12V at the solenoid and it would
> not work. Is this an explanation and if so how??
>
> Bill B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
> Jones
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:22 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8
>
>
>
> As others have mentioned, the problem is in how you use your tools...like
> the voltmeter.
>
> Imagine that you have a voltmeter that is infinitely sensitive (infinite
> impedance). Now it will measure the battery voltage even thru an open
> switch. In fact, it will measure 500 volts between your belt buckle and
your
> shoe laces. And the top of your hat will be 1000 volts higher than the
soles
> of your New Balance sneakers. You can actually extract some tiny amount of
> power this way.
>
> So meter impedance is not a lack of quality in a meter, it is a necessary
> and useful characteristic of the measuring device. And in a solid state
> circuit (like a diode), there will almost always be a voltage on the
output
> that is similar to the input voltage even when the meter is off. And in
fact
> the "leakage voltage" will not be able to light even the tiniest LED...so
> ignore it.
>
> I once designed a Cmos circuit where somebody (okay, me...) forgot to add
> the power trace to the IC. Years later, an inquisitive technician, tracing
> an unrelated fault discovered it, but all the shipped product had worked
> just fine.
>
> So just don't make voltage measurements like this.
>
> See attached for a better way.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373387#373387
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/diode_test_116.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ground plane for GPS antenna? |
Hi all,
I am building an RV 8. Per the suggestion of several builders, I make a
bracket to hold my GPS antenna under the cowl, just forward of the firewall.
The bracket is bolted to the firewall. I painted it to match my engine and
plenum. I got to wondering if the paint was an error. I know that the
nav and com antennae don't work without connection to the ground plane of
the aircraft. Is that also true for a GPS antenna? The antenna is the one
that came with a Garmin 430W.
It would be easy enough to buff off the paint where the antenna rests.
The bracket is pretty will grounded to the airframe by its bolts. Would that
April 28, 2012 - May 20, 2012
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-lc