AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ll

October 16, 2012 - November 14, 2012



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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lockwasher under big wire mount
Good info - thanks! -----Original Message----- >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> >Sent: Oct 16, 2012 10:35 AM >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lockwasher under big wire mount > > >At 09:06 AM 10/16/2012, you wrote: >> >> >>Please refresh my memory. >> >>The large wire the goes between the starter relay and my B&C starter >>on my RV has a lockwasher on the relay end. When I got my engine >>back from inspection (tornado-induced-hangar-door-prop-strike), the >>lockwasher was not there...I don't remember of it ever was. >> >>The stack as it currently sits: >> >>Starter stud >>18awg with ring PIDG and Fast-on PIDG (other end) >>4awg with big crimped end >>flat brass washer >>Brass nut >> >>The wire also has an Adel clamp attaching ot to the oil sump along >>the side to reduce possibility of relative movement. >> >>If it wasn't there before...it didn't move and may not be necessary at all. >> >>I don't have an issue with adding it if necessary...and I think it >>would go between the nut and the flat washer. > > I'm wondering if there has ever been a 'loosening event' > on one of these studs that put a system in distress. > A properly torqued fastener is pretty much immobilized. > A lock-washer is not a prophylactic feature against > loss of an improperly torqued joint. > > The split-ring lock washers shipped with many such > devices are whistling in the dark . . . an internal > toothed washer adds multiple bite-sites for driving up > the torque required to loosen a nut. But I think > the stack up you described is just fine except that > I'd put the fat wire terminal on first with the smaller > one on top of that. > > If there are concerns about loosening, a spot of > super-glue in the threads of the mated fastener > is probably a better bet. Adds a lot of anti-rotation > resistance but not so much as to make future disassembly > difficult. Further, the thread-locker does its > job in the non-contact spaces of the threads > and doesn't add to joint resistance. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
From: Jeff Page <jpx(at)qenesis.com>
Subject: Re: CAD drawings
> Ebay has full boxes of recent versions of TurboCAD or DesignCAD with > manuals and disks and support and users forums AND FREE SHIPPING for > $10. I opted for this and purchased TurboCAD Deluxe 15, which claimed Windows 7 compatibility for close to the cost of shipping me the disc. I did manage to get it to install, but it was painful. One key was turing off Data Execution Prevention. Without this, the program doesn't start at all, without any error message. Start, Control Panel, System, Advanced system settings, Performance settings, Data Execution Prevention. Click add and browse to TCW15.exe In spite of choosing options to install the symbols, it installed them so they would be referenced off the CD. I had to manually copy the files and then mess around with the configuration to set the paths to find them. Even so, I suspect I will need to search the web for additional libraries to get symbols I want. There are two upgrade patches available on the web site. Neither install. The installer claims it cannot find the original program to modify. No Google results on this problem. Registration was required to activate it. They made it look like your email address was required. I usually prefer to remain confidential and provide bogus information to such requests. In this case, the registration code was provided on-screen, so a bogus email would have worked. Now that it is installed, all I need to do is learn how to use it ;-) Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: CAD drawings
Date: Oct 16, 2012
I bought Turbo CAD 15 on EBay & installed it on my Win7 Laptop about 6 months ago, based on suggestions here on the List ( and the fact that I have used Turbo CAD over the years and liked it ). I don't remember having any problems w/ installation & use the program almost every week. I had experimented w/ a few of the other CAD programs and found them difficult to use compared to Turbo CAD. I knocked-out a rough drawing of my instrument panel (RV-7) in less than an hour w/ Turbo CAD. It took me longer than that to just setup the drawing w/ DraftSight (perhaps I'm just DraftSight challenged??) - w/ Turbo CAD I was productive in 30 minutes or less. Jeff Luckey -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Page Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 08:41 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: CAD drawings > Ebay has full boxes of recent versions of TurboCAD or DesignCAD with > manuals and disks and support and users forums AND FREE SHIPPING for > $10. I opted for this and purchased TurboCAD Deluxe 15, which claimed Windows 7 compatibility for close to the cost of shipping me the disc. I did manage to get it to install, but it was painful. One key was turing off Data Execution Prevention. Without this, the program doesn't start at all, without any error message. Start, Control Panel, System, Advanced system settings, Performance settings, Data Execution Prevention. Click add and browse to TCW15.exe In spite of choosing options to install the symbols, it installed them so they would be referenced off the CD. I had to manually copy the files and then mess around with the configuration to set the paths to find them. Even so, I suspect I will need to search the web for additional libraries to get symbols I want. There are two upgrade patches available on the web site. Neither install. The installer claims it cannot find the original program to modify. No Google results on this problem. Registration was required to activate it. They made it look like your email address was required. I usually prefer to remain confidential and provide bogus information to such requests. In this case, the registration code was provided on-screen, so a bogus email would have worked. Now that it is installed, all I need to do is learn how to use it ;-) Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Thermocouple testing
At 10:13 AM 10/16/2012, you wrote: >Bob, > >I ordered 3 of the devices. When comparing them at room temp they >varied over a range of about 3 deg. Any info on what screw does >what, or shall I just start twisting screws and see what happens :-) >? I'm not as concerned with accuracy as I am with consistency >across them for measuring temp differences. I've not explored the functionality of the two pots. One will be offset (probably calibrated at the lower temperature) and the other is scale factor (higher calibration point). You'll need a water-ice bath of distilled or RO water and crushed ice. Also a boiling cup of water . . . Put dip into alternate baths, wait for stable reading and then adjust pot for either 0 or 100 as appropriate. Each excursion/calibration cycle between the two baths should display smaller errors. If the errors are growing, try reversing which pot is twisted for what temperature. Let us know what you discover! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Mil-Spec minature lamp fixtures
I was looking for some 'temporarily misplaced' goods in some moving boxes and ran across a quantity of good, used miniature lamp fixtures that use the T1-1/4 flanged base lamps. These would be useful for refurbishment of an existing compliment of lights . . . or paying homage to the legacy look of aircraft instrument panels. In any case, they're unlikely to be useful for anything I'll be doing. Hence, offered to the OBAM aircraft community at about 25% of new price until they're gone. See: http://tinyurl.com/36e7ddd Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fisher Paul A." <FisherPaulA(at)johndeere.com>
Date: Oct 16, 2012
Subject: Re: Making a LED landing light flash
I'm glad to hear the wig-wag project isn't on the back burner. I tried, unsuccessfully, to get involved back in May/June but apparently higher priority projects moved in. I'd still be interested once you get that 36 hour day thing figured out! ;-) I have no pressing need - it just sounds like an interesting learning opportunity... Paul A. Fisher RV-7A N18PF Q200 N17PF -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:40 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Making a LED landing light flash --> Are you aware of any wig-wag studies on incandescent vs. LED lighting of the same intensity? I would think that perhaps the LED with it's crisp instant on would be an attention getter from a farther distance, as opposed to the ramp up of light output from the other source. Not that I'm aware of. My middle son's mother-in-law was a professor at KU who spent much of her academic career studying the physiology of sight. Were she still with us, I'm pretty sure she'd have a lot to share . . . and direction to other sources. Your mention for rate-of-rise in intensity is perceptive. While I was at Cessna, about 1967, a company called AeroFlash came out with a replacement for the motorized rotating beacons that were the anti- collision warning devices of choice in 1965. These were single, halogen bulbs under a domed lens that delivered the requisite intensity in all directions at the same time. But instead of being a 30 watt bulb at the center of a mechanical focusing/directing system, these were 150 watt devices that were flashed electrically. The filaments were so massive that the lamps were visibly slower in both rise and fall of intensity than the legacy rotating beacon. I remember seeing multiple aircraft at night were one was fitted with the AF device while others were sporting rotating beacons. The difference in visual 'force' for getting attention was obvious. But the regs for qualifying such devices waxed eloquently about color, intensity, flash rates and spherical coverage without the slightest attention to rate of rise/fall for the emitted energy. I went to the bench last night an cobbled up a panel mounted, incandescent annunciator light to renew my recollected perceptions for flash rate and duty cycle. The rise/fall characteristics of the incandescent lamp was perceptible and my anecdotal musings with the knobs on the function generator renewed and old bit of knowledge that a 33% on 66% off was a bit more 'forceful' when observed in peripheral vision. An LED substitute didn't seem to have much difference at 33/66 vs 50/50. My gut feeling is that lights which are flashed will probably rattle the grey matter of distant pilots sooner than lights which are simply wig-wagged. LED's are no doubt better yet. Perhaps the ideal system would not only alternate the lamps from side to side . . . but generate a trio of pulses for each illumination. Say 3 flashes in 1 second per side. I think I recall a system being offered at OSH over 10 years ago for producing a series of short flashes for each illumination interval. Again, the rise/fall rates for LED's would probably enhance performance. That's something we could do with the LED wig-wag project. The software could be modified to offer the trio of short bursts for each lamp in addition to the positional offset of side-to-side cycling. That project is not on a back burner. I've got boards laid out and thanks to the able skills of byte-herder McHugh, we have source code that could easily be amended to produce the proposed behavior. All I need is a 36-hour day . . . but it's going to happen along with several other new products. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Making a LED landing light flash
At 12:24 PM 10/16/2012, you wrote: > > >I'm glad to hear the wig-wag project isn't on the back burner. I >tried, unsuccessfully, to get involved back in May/June but >apparently higher priority projects moved in. I'd still be >interested once you get that 36 hour day thing figured out! ;-) Oh yeah, you asked for a board. I can send you one along with a copy of Greg's present handiwork. Shoot me an address again. How's your stock of 1206 SMD parts? I can probably put sort of a 'kit' together. Have you downloaded the latest data package? http://tinyurl.com/6w9vndk Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
Subject: Re: What alternator size
From: James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org>
Yes, and the thing is, the battery reserve is there for the once-in-a-while time when you really do need everything on. Even a small battery will give you for many hours those couple of amps extra that you might need. James On 16 October 2012 08:24, B Tomm wrote: > > Thanks Bob, > > Yes I have done a load analysis (on paper) for cruise flight. I suppose I > was including a few things that I shouldn't have such as fuel boost pump > and > P-mag current since those would be zero under normal cruise conditions. > > Also, I am finding a discrepancy between published numbers from various > sources. > > Maybe I will just measure each of the (larger draw) items directly and > record the actual values. Shouldn't be too difficult. > > Thanks for the spreadsheet link. > > Bevan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert > L. > Nuckolls, III > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 4:02 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What alternator size > > --> > > At 04:43 PM 10/15/2012, you wrote: > >--> > > > > > >How to choose the correct alt size? > > > >If my theoretical max sustained current draw on the airplane is 35-40 > >amps, will a 40 amp B and C alternator be sufficient? In other words, > >is there room to spare or is 40 amps the maximum? And is this at max > >engine RPM or cruise or does it matter? > > > >The majoring of the electrical requirements are for things rarely used > >such as pitot heat, strobes, lights etc. Is it acceptable to use the > >SD-8 backup alternator to provide the remaining amps when all those loads > are required? > > > >I assume that there needs to be head room so that the battery can > >re-charge after a high load event, but I don't know how much this will > >add to the total load. > > > >I really don't want a 60 amp alternator if a 40 will suffice without > >any significant downsides as the weight savings is significant. > > Have you done a load analysis? 15 years ago I did one for > an RV that came up 27 amps worst case (pitot heater on). > For most of us, the current draw for the various electro-whizzies > is going down . . . not up. > > Check out the files at > > http://tinyurl.com/9rt6ymn > > where you'll find some spread-sheet examples of load analysis > conducted by members of the list. You can go the pure > manual route using a pencil and this form > > http://tinyurl.com/7jqypwj > > Fill this out for EACH bus (main, e-bus, battery bus) > and fill in CONTINUOUS draw currents for each > electro-whizzy used during a particular phase of > flight. You don't every run everything all the time. > > The rule of thumb is to have 25% of an alternator > capacity in reserve for battery charging. So see > if you can fly your airplane on 30A or less . . . I'm > betting you can . . . much less. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 16, 2012
Subject: Re: What alternator size
We had a customer who "kind of" knew his alternator wouldn't support his entire load. He flew a few hours at night with "everything on", then in the pattern at his destination, put the flaps down, which drew enough to open the master relay. His battery-backed-up EFIS and GPS went into 30-second countdown-to-shutoff mode, which he overlooked while trying to figure out why everything else had gone dark, and he found himself with everything dark on short final. He has bigger alternator now. Dave Saylor 831-750-0284 CL On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:40 AM, James Kilford wrote: > Yes, and the thing is, the battery reserve is there for the > once-in-a-while time when you really do need everything on. Even a small > battery will give you for many hours those couple of amps extra that you > might need. > > James > > > On 16 October 2012 08:24, B Tomm wrote: > >> >> Thanks Bob, >> >> Yes I have done a load analysis (on paper) for cruise flight. I suppose I >> was including a few things that I shouldn't have such as fuel boost pump >> and >> P-mag current since those would be zero under normal cruise conditions. >> >> Also, I am finding a discrepancy between published numbers from various >> sources. >> >> Maybe I will just measure each of the (larger draw) items directly and >> record the actual values. Shouldn't be too difficult. >> >> Thanks for the spreadsheet link. >> >> Bevan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Robert L. >> Nuckolls, III >> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 4:02 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What alternator size >> >> --> >> >> At 04:43 PM 10/15/2012, you wrote: >> >--> >> > >> > >> >How to choose the correct alt size? >> > >> >If my theoretical max sustained current draw on the airplane is 35-40 >> >amps, will a 40 amp B and C alternator be sufficient? In other words, >> >is there room to spare or is 40 amps the maximum? And is this at max >> >engine RPM or cruise or does it matter? >> > >> >The majoring of the electrical requirements are for things rarely used >> >such as pitot heat, strobes, lights etc. Is it acceptable to use the >> >SD-8 backup alternator to provide the remaining amps when all those loads >> are required? >> > >> >I assume that there needs to be head room so that the battery can >> >re-charge after a high load event, but I don't know how much this will >> >add to the total load. >> > >> >I really don't want a 60 amp alternator if a 40 will suffice without >> >any significant downsides as the weight savings is significant. >> >> Have you done a load analysis? 15 years ago I did one for >> an RV that came up 27 amps worst case (pitot heater on). >> For most of us, the current draw for the various electro-whizzies >> is going down . . . not up. >> >> Check out the files at >> >> http://tinyurl.com/9rt6ymn >> >> where you'll find some spread-sheet examples of load analysis >> conducted by members of the list. You can go the pure >> manual route using a pencil and this form >> >> http://tinyurl.com/7jqypwj >> >> Fill this out for EACH bus (main, e-bus, battery bus) >> and fill in CONTINUOUS draw currents for each >> electro-whizzy used during a particular phase of >> flight. You don't every run everything all the time. >> >> The rule of thumb is to have 25% of an alternator >> capacity in reserve for battery charging. So see >> if you can fly your airplane on 30A or less . . . I'm >> betting you can . . . much less. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> - >> ric-List" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ========== >> MS - >> k">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> e - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
Subject: Re: What alternator size
From: James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org>
The load analysis spreadsheet is our friend! On 16 October 2012 20:11, Dave Saylor wrote: > We had a customer who "kind of" knew his alternator wouldn't support his > entire load. He flew a few hours at night with "everything on", then in > the pattern at his destination, put the flaps down, which drew enough to > open the master relay. His battery-backed-up EFIS and GPS went into > 30-second countdown-to-shutoff mode, which he overlooked while trying to > figure out why everything else had gone dark, and he found himself with > everything dark on short final. > > He has bigger alternator now. > > Dave Saylor > 831-750-0284 CL > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:40 AM, James Kilford wrote: > >> Yes, and the thing is, the battery reserve is there for the >> once-in-a-while time when you really do need everything on. Even a small >> battery will give you for many hours those couple of amps extra that you >> might need. >> >> James >> >> >> On 16 October 2012 08:24, B Tomm wrote: >> >>> >>> Thanks Bob, >>> >>> Yes I have done a load analysis (on paper) for cruise flight. I suppose >>> I >>> was including a few things that I shouldn't have such as fuel boost pump >>> and >>> P-mag current since those would be zero under normal cruise conditions. >>> >>> Also, I am finding a discrepancy between published numbers from various >>> sources. >>> >>> Maybe I will just measure each of the (larger draw) items directly and >>> record the actual values. Shouldn't be too difficult. >>> >>> Thanks for the spreadsheet link. >>> >>> Bevan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> Robert L. >>> Nuckolls, III >>> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 4:02 PM >>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What alternator size >>> >>> --> >>> >>> At 04:43 PM 10/15/2012, you wrote: >>> >--> >>> > >>> > >>> >How to choose the correct alt size? >>> > >>> >If my theoretical max sustained current draw on the airplane is 35-40 >>> >amps, will a 40 amp B and C alternator be sufficient? In other words, >>> >is there room to spare or is 40 amps the maximum? And is this at max >>> >engine RPM or cruise or does it matter? >>> > >>> >The majoring of the electrical requirements are for things rarely used >>> >such as pitot heat, strobes, lights etc. Is it acceptable to use the >>> >SD-8 backup alternator to provide the remaining amps when all those >>> loads >>> are required? >>> > >>> >I assume that there needs to be head room so that the battery can >>> >re-charge after a high load event, but I don't know how much this will >>> >add to the total load. >>> > >>> >I really don't want a 60 amp alternator if a 40 will suffice without >>> >any significant downsides as the weight savings is significant. >>> >>> Have you done a load analysis? 15 years ago I did one for >>> an RV that came up 27 amps worst case (pitot heater on). >>> For most of us, the current draw for the various electro-whizzies >>> is going down . . . not up. >>> >>> Check out the files at >>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/9rt6ymn >>> >>> where you'll find some spread-sheet examples of load analysis >>> conducted by members of the list. You can go the pure >>> manual route using a pencil and this form >>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/7jqypwj >>> >>> Fill this out for EACH bus (main, e-bus, battery bus) >>> and fill in CONTINUOUS draw currents for each >>> electro-whizzy used during a particular phase of >>> flight. You don't every run everything all the time. >>> >>> The rule of thumb is to have 25% of an alternator >>> capacity in reserve for battery charging. So see >>> if you can fly your airplane on 30A or less . . . I'm >>> betting you can . . . much less. >>> >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> - >>> ric-List" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> ========== >>> MS - >>> k">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> e - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: What alternator size
At 02:11 PM 10/16/2012, you wrote: >We had a customer who "kind of" knew his >alternator wouldn't support his entire >load. He flew a few hours at night with >"everything on", then in the pattern at his >destination, put the flaps down, which drew >enough to open the master relay. His >battery-backed-up EFIS and GPS went into >30-second countdown-to-shutoff mode, which he >overlooked while trying to figure out why >everything else had gone dark, and he found >himself with everything dark on short final. > >He has bigger alternator now. Yeah . . . BUT . . . why didn't he have a low volts warning light? If the light is OUT, the battery is NOT being discharged. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Making a LED landing light flash
At 12:24 PM 10/16/2012, you wrote: > > >I'm glad to hear the wig-wag project isn't on the back burner. I >tried, unsuccessfully, to get involved back in May/June but >apparently higher priority projects moved in. I'd still be >interested once you get that 36 hour day thing figured out! ;-) Oh yeah, you asked for a board. I can send you one along with a copy of Greg's present handiwork. Shoot me an address again. How's your stock of 1206 SMD parts? I can probably put sort of a 'kit' together. Have you downloaded the latest data package? http://tinyurl.com/6w9vndk ======================================= SCRATCH THE ABOVE. I'd promised you a STUFFED board. Also found your address. The board is about half done. Won't make today's pickup but it will go out tomorrow. I'll find Greg's last pass on the code and get it posted to the website. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2012
From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: CAD drawings
If DraftSight is Solidworks younger brother, I'm just trying to figure out why they couldn't call it something closer to home, like StolidWorks.- Henador Titzoff --- On Sun, 10/14/12, Jan wrote: From: Jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CAD drawings Date: Sunday, October 14, 2012, 7:04 PM DraftSight is backed by a world class company - and its free - and its tota lly AutoCAD compatible - at least for your day to day 2D drafting stuff The 3D stuff done by Dassault is SolidWork ... or Catia ... both are high e nd stuff ..Catia more so - I would trust the French over the Russians any d ay -:-) ... no offence to anyone Russians !! - I am sure the Nano stuff may be perfectly ok ... of Bob is using it ... Rem ember that DS is a relatively new offering from -Dassault ... I suppose t hey like to hook you early ... give you 2D for free ... then you migrate to SW ... or the very big league ... Catia ...- All the best Jan On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:07 PM, Henador Titzoff w rote: Bob, nanoCAD sounds like a pretty good product, but I went to their website and noticed it's out of the Russian Federation. I'm not the kind of guy that de means foreign products unless I have a very good reason, which also applies to domestic products. I'm leery about anything that comes out of Russia an d China now, because their governments do not hold anyone's feet to the fir e when it comes to shenanigans. -I know that much malware comes out of th ese two countries, and there's not much we can do about it. It's entirely p ossible that nanoCAD might get compromised by hackers and deliver us a prod uct we don't like. After the demise of the USSR, there were many talented p rogrammers left behind without jobs. -Many of them migrated out to Israel and Western countries to find good paying jobs, but many of them stayed be hind to work real=0A jobs and some became hackers. This is why I would rath er go with DraftSight and not nanoCAD. nanoCAD is comprised of a bunch of d evelopers, and not telling what anyone of them will do. If this sounds xenophobic, rest assured it's not, because I don't think Das sault is loaded up with hackers. -I just don't trust loose organizations from Russia, China, Iran and other countries whose governments don't have t he legal framework to take someone to jail or court if a foreigner gets att acked in cyberspace. -Do you have such feelings about nanoCAD, or do you trust them wholeheartedly? Henador Titzoff --- On Sun, 10/14/12, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> Subject: Re:=0A AeroElectric-List: CAD drawings Date: Sunday, October 14, 2012, 6:44 AM s.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> At 04:02 AM 10/14/2012, you wrote: lemail.com> Hello group, I am in the final documentation phase of my LANCAIR 360 project and startin g to copy my handmade - electrical - drawings to the computer. Therefore I am looking for a good tool and a free of charge CAD program probably compatibl e with ACAD. Any hints recommendations are highly appreciated, Thanks in=0A advance, - Suggest you look at NanoCAD http://tinyurl.com/9yl3ug5 - It's free =AND= is 95%+ clone of AutoCAD - in appearance and command structure. It will - open, edit, save and print all of the AutoCAD - drawings on my website. http://tinyurl.com/385dhl http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List----> =0A=0A=0A===================== ===============0Ast">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?AeroElectric-List=0A=============== =====================0Acs.com=0A= ==========0Amatronics.com/contribution=0A===== =====0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jan <jan(at)CLAVER.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: CAD drawings
Date: Oct 17, 2012
:-) .. it would probably be more correct to say it is Solidworks - new born b aby ... in comparison ..it is just a 2D drafting package. Anything you want to do in 2D ... you can do in DS ...and as the baby gets b igger ... it wants bigger toys ... so you buy SW ..for all your fancy 3D stu ff .. And for the grown ups who has all the toys ... on occasions you like to thin k back when you were young and have a look at a few dusty old 2D drawing ... and its all there ... in you family ... for no cost at all .... All the best Jan On Oct 17, 2012, at 5:36 AM, Henador Titzoff wro te: > > If DraftSight is Solidworks younger brother, I'm just trying to figure out why they couldn't call it something closer to home, like StolidWorks. > > Henador Titzoff > > --- On Sun, 10/14/12, Jan wrote: > > From: Jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CAD drawings > To: "" > Date: Sunday, October 14, 2012, 7:04 PM > > DraftSight is backed by a world class company - and its free - and its tot ally AutoCAD compatible - at least for your day to day 2D drafting stuff > > The 3D stuff done by Dassault is SolidWork ... or Catia ... both are high e nd stuff ..Catia more so - I would trust the French over the Russians any da y :-) ... no offence to anyone Russians !! > > I am sure the Nano stuff may be perfectly ok ... of Bob is using it ... Re member that DS is a relatively new offering from Dassault ... I suppose the y like to hook you early ... give you 2D for free ... then you migrate to SW ... or the very big league ... Catia ... > > All the best > > Jan > > On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:07 PM, Henador Titzoff w rote: > >> >> Bob, >> >> nanoCAD sounds like a pretty good product, but I went to their website an d noticed it's out of the Russian Federation. I'm not the kind of guy that d emeans foreign products unless I have a very good reason, which also applies to domestic products. I'm leery about anything that comes out of Russia and China now, because their governments do not hold anyone's feet to the fire w hen it comes to shenanigans. I know that much malware comes out of these tw o countries, and there's not much we can do about it. It's entirely possible that nanoCAD might get compromised by hackers and deliver us a product we d on't like. After the demise of the USSR, there were many talented programmer s left behind without jobs. Many of them migrated out to Israel and Western countries to find good paying jobs, but many of them stayed behind to work r eal jobs and some became hackers. This is why I would rather go with DraftSi ght and not nanoCAD. nanoCAD is comprised of a bunch of developers, and not t elling what anyone of them will do. >> >> If this sounds xenophobic, rest assured it's not, because I don't think D assault is loaded up with hackers. I just don't trust loose organizations f rom Russia, China, Iran and other countries whose governments don't have the legal framework to take someone to jail or court if a foreigner gets attack ed in cyberspace. Do you have such feelings about nanoCAD, or do you trust t hem wholeheartedly? >> >> Henador Titzoff >> >> >> --- On Sun, 10/14/12, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric. com> wrote: >> >> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CAD drawings >> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Sunday, October 14, 2012, 6:44 AM >> lls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> >> >> At 04:02 AM 10/14/2012, you wrote: oglemail.com> >> >> Hello group, >> >> I am in the final documentation phase of my LANCAIR 360 project and start ing >> to copy my handmade - electrical - drawings to the computer. Therefore I a m >> looking for a good tool and a free of charge CAD program probably compati ble >> with ACAD. >> >> Any hints recommendations are highly appreciated, >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Suggest you look at NanoCAD >> >> http://tinyurl.com/9yl3ug5 >> >> It's free =AND= is 95%+ clone of AutoCAD >> in appearance and command structure. It will >> open, edit, save and print all of the AutoCAD >> drawings on my website. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/385dhl >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List --> >> >> >> >> >> ========================= ========= >> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ========================= ========= >> cs.com >> ========= >> matronics.com/contribution >> ========= >> > http://www.matronics.com/Nav================ ======= > " target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.mat r --> > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com>
Subject: SWR meter(s) NAV/COM/DME/TPD
Date: Oct 17, 2012
Bob Can you recommend one or more SWR meters that between them can cover the full range of avionics antenna. I'm looking for units that generate the signal themselves Thanks Peter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fisher Paul A." <FisherPaulA(at)johndeere.com>
Date: Oct 17, 2012
Subject: Re: Making a LED landing light flash
Thanks Bob. I'll take a look and see if I can incorporate a 3-flash on cycle for the transition of the wig-wag into Greg's software and get it back to the group. Should be an interesting project! - Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Making a LED landing light flash --> At 12:24 PM 10/16/2012, you wrote: > > >I'm glad to hear the wig-wag project isn't on the back burner. I >tried, unsuccessfully, to get involved back in May/June but apparently >higher priority projects moved in. I'd still be interested once you >get that 36 hour day thing figured out! ;-) Oh yeah, you asked for a board. I can send you one along with a copy of Greg's present handiwork. Shoot me an address again. How's your stock of 1206 SMD parts? I can probably put sort of a 'kit' together. Have you downloaded the latest data package? http://tinyurl.com/6w9vndk Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Making a LED landing light flash
At 08:56 AM 10/17/2012, you wrote: > > >Thanks Bob. I'll take a look and see if I can incorporate a 3-flash >on cycle for the transition of the wig-wag into Greg's software and >get it back to the group. Should be an interesting project! I think so. One of the things I miss most about being 'retired' is that it's more like being 'isolated'. Most of the jobs I've held came with a certain population of curious minds who were also great 'connectors of dots' . . . they could sit around a table and play 'pass the idea' . . . each trip around the loop would produce clearer insight and/or interesting alternatives to the task before us. While working in the Targets division at HBC, I sat in a bull-pen of cubicles occupied by such individuals. We overheard each other's conversations including phone calls. A GOOD thing especially when some eavesdropper had some interesting thought or fact to stir into the mix. You folks are my surrogate think tank. I'm enthusiastic about exploring these 'open source' projects. In terms of quality of outcome, it cannot be bad . . . and certainly much better than projects that grow up within narrow silos of talent and responsibility. When I've explained these experiments with some of my past colleagues, they often voice some skepticism about the 'business model'. Over the years, I've come to understand that product development is greatly separated from production and marketing of an idea. Further, just because an idea is fully disclosed doesn't mean that there is an increased risk to individuals who decide to produce and market those ideas. Most of the folks on the List have no interest in producing and marketing anything. They're interested in acquiring certain capabilities, of good value, off the shelf with track record and warranty. If competing production and marketing efforts arise from an idea, it's a good thing. Carrying these activities forward in the open source, open forum environment goes a long way toward informing potential customers and demonstrating track records. But for some, it's not about production/marketing. It's all about an intellectual 'buzz' that rises from a successful recipe of of simple ideas. During my brief stint in television broadcast, I was tasked with producing and marketing a video time base corrector. The thing was designed by a very clever fellow who was deprived of the 'think tank' refinement tools that I've learned to value. I was forced into learning video in a big hurry so that I could sift out the little bugs and production snags in the design. Support from the original designer was disappointing. He'd seen it work once and was off on other ideas. He ultimately went to work for Heathkit, the IDEAL environment for his talent and motivations. He was immersed in an organization of very capable production and marketing folks who could maximize the exploitation of his unique talents. I'd like to believe that the List membership includes the whole spectrum of talents, personalities and life-goals willing to contribute to the life cycle of interesting and useful products. We shall see. Thanks for participating . . . any many thanks to those who have participated thus far. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: William DeLacey <whd721(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: CAD drawings
Date: Oct 17, 2012
I have been following this thread. I have my panel schematic In a both .cdr and .pdf files as provided by my panel fabricator. Is there a simple to use CAD program that I can use to add color coding and wire gages to the existing drawing? I am willing to buy a reasonable priced program, but don't want to spend a lot of time learning to run a complete cad system. Thanks. On Oct 16, 2012, at 2:36 PM, Henador Titzoff wrote: > If DraftSight is Solidworks younger brother, I'm just trying to figure out why they couldn't call it something closer to home, like StolidWorks. > > Henador Titzoff > > --- On Sun, 10/14/12, Jan wrote: > > From: Jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CAD drawings > To: "" > Date: Sunday, October 14, 2012, 7:04 PM > > DraftSight is backed by a world class company - and its free - and its totally AutoCAD compatible - at least for your day to day 2D drafting stuff > > The 3D stuff done by Dassault is SolidWork ... or Catia ... both are high end stuff ..Catia more so - I would trust the French over the Russians any day :-) ... no offence to anyone Russians !! > > I am sure the Nano stuff may be perfectly ok ... of Bob is using it ... Remember that DS is a relatively new offering from Dassault ... I suppose they like to hook you early ... give you 2D for free ... then you migrate to SW ... or the very big league ... Catia ... > > All the best > > Jan > > On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:07 PM, Henador Titzoff wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> nanoCAD sounds like a pretty good product, but I went to their website and noticed it's out of the Russian Federation. I'm not the kind of guy that demeans foreign products unless I have a very good reason, which also applies to domestic products. I'm leery about anything that comes out of Russia and China now, because their governments do not hold anyone's feet to the fire when it comes to shenanigans. I know that much malware comes out of these two countries, and there's not much we can do about it. It's entirely possible that nanoCAD might get compromised by hackers and deliver us a product we don't like. After the demise of the USSR, there were many talented programmers left behind without jobs. Many of them migrated out to Israel and Western countries to find good paying jobs, but many of them stayed behind to work real jobs and some became hackers. This is why I would rather go with DraftSight and not nanoCAD. nanoCAD is comprised of a bunch of developers, and not telling what anyone of them will do. >> >> If this sounds xenophobic, rest assured it's not, because I don't think Dassault is loaded up with hackers. I just don't trust loose organizations from Russia, China, Iran and other countries whose governments don't have the legal framework to take someone to jail or court if a foreigner gets attacked in cyberspace. Do you have such feelings about nanoCAD, or do you trust them wholeheartedly? >> >> Henador Titzoff >> >> >> --- On Sun, 10/14/12, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CAD drawings >> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Sunday, October 14, 2012, 6:44 AM >> >> >> At 04:02 AM 10/14/2012, you wrote: >> >> Hello group, >> >> I am in the final documentation phase of my LANCAIR 360 project and starting >> to copy my handmade - electrical - drawings to the computer. Therefore I am >> looking for a good tool and a free of charge CAD program probably compatible >> with ACAD. >> >> Any hints recommendations are highly appreciated, >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Suggest you look at NanoCAD >> >> http://tinyurl.com/9yl3ug5 >> >> It's free =AND= is 95%+ clone of AutoCAD >> in appearance and command structure. It will >> open, edit, save and print all of the AutoCAD >> drawings on my website. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/385dhl >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List --> >> >> >> >> >> ======================== >> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ======================== >> cs.com >> ========= >> matronics.com/contribution >> ========= >> > http://www.matronics.com/Nav=============== ======== > " target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr --> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: SWR meter(s) NAV/COM/DME/TPD
At 07:52 AM 10/17/2012, you wrote: Bob Can you recommend one or more SWR meters that between them can cover the full range of avionics antenna. I'm looking for units that generate the signal themselves Thanks Peter Hmmmm . . . that's a broad range of test equipment. Further, it covers frequencies outside those of amateur radio/experimenters interests. The MFJ259/266 are the gold standards for antennas up to 175 MHz (and 400 MHz; MFJ266). Single devices that cover the full range of interest are $kilo$ pieces of equipment. Probably the least expensive approach is a Bird 43 watt meter with appropriate elements driven by an RF power oscillator or signal generator/amplifier. I used to have a 3 watt broadband amplifier that would drive from my HP generator. I had a few 1 watt elements for the B43. This combination allowed some economical look-see experiments with antennas in the VHF/UHF domains. The amplifier died some years ago and I never did get it fixed. Are you looking to build some antennas or just troublehoot? Antennas that ever worked are generally pretty robust and unlikely to benefit from any sort of 'testing'. Feedline connectors are the most likely source of problems with antennas in service. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2012
From: Peter Pengilly <peter(at)sportingaero.com>
Subject: Re: CAD drawings
I've just downloaded Draftsight and started using it very quickly (for mechanical drawings). Not much experience of other CAD packages, although I've used Visio quite a bit, but seems straight forward so far. Peter On 16/10/2012 16:40, Jeff Page wrote: > >> Ebay has full boxes of recent versions of TurboCAD or DesignCAD with >> manuals and disks and support and users forums AND FREE SHIPPING for >> $10. > > I opted for this and purchased TurboCAD Deluxe 15, which claimed > Windows 7 compatibility for close to the cost of shipping me the disc. > > I did manage to get it to install, but it was painful. > > One key was turing off Data Execution Prevention. Without this, the > program doesn't start at all, without any error message. > Start, Control Panel, System, Advanced system settings, Performance > settings, Data Execution Prevention. Click add and browse to TCW15.exe > > In spite of choosing options to install the symbols, it installed them > so they would be referenced off the CD. I had to manually copy the > files and then mess around with the configuration to set the paths to > find them. Even so, I suspect I will need to search the web for > additional libraries to get symbols I want. > > There are two upgrade patches available on the web site. Neither > install. The installer claims it cannot find the original program to > modify. No Google results on this problem. > > Registration was required to activate it. They made it look like your > email address was required. I usually prefer to remain confidential > and provide bogus information to such requests. In this case, the > registration code was provided on-screen, so a bogus email would have > worked. > > Now that it is installed, all I need to do is learn how to use it ;-) > > Jeff Page > Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 18, 2012
From: D L Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com>
Subject: Re: SWR meter(s) NAV/COM/DME/TPD
On 10/17/12 11:57 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: Conventional SWR meters require an external generator and power amp, as Bob mentions. The MFJ meters he suggests work fine for nav/com, but for L band (DME, transponder, UAT) you need something else. There is a good analysis of the various approaches at http://www.rigexpert.com/index?s=articles&fs ... they also make handheld devices that go to 1000 MHz but not far enough for transponder and DME (1215 MHz to get all of it.) The preferred approach is an antenna analyzer like the Anritsu Site Master series, which was developed for people installing cell phone base stations. The earlier versions go to 1200-1300 MHz and are being phased out because many cell phone networks now use frequencies at 1700 MHz and above. They sell for a little over $1,000 on ebay (or much more for the latest ones that go to 6 GHz or more.) In my toolbox now instead of an MFJ is a "Times Technology" T100+ network analyzer, which you can buy from the Hong Kong manufacturer for $250 on ebay, or see his website at http://timestechnology.com.hk. It is fiddly to use and seems rather fragile but works well, runs on two AA cells and fits in a shirt pocket. It will even draw a low resolution Smith chart to give you some idea of what your antenna is actually doing. It has a USB port and the fellow keeps promising to release a full PC control program but hasn't, although the demo example gives full details on what would be required if someone were to write one themselves. It only goes to 500 MHz though. -- David Josephson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making a LED landing light flash
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Oct 18, 2012
Some notes on wig wags and flashers: This field has been studied since the 1800's since people were quite interested in making lighthouses visible to ships. Studies on what is most visible and how it is measured is an extremely difficult subject: Viz, a light visible at a flash pulse-width of 40 mS can appear to be LESS BRIGHT at 50 mS. WTF? (I hear you ask), well, the visual system is working as hard as it can to detect a shorter flash and sends a signal to the brain. Nothing happens beyond that while the visual neurons need time to recover. OR SOMETHING...Weird. (Broca & Sulzer 1902). I'm not sure anyone really knows, but it is an easy experiment to reproduce. Blondel-Rey equations are used to determine Effective Intensity Ie. In the last few years the methodology has been called into question because the Blondel-Rey equations don't work well except with purely square-wave pulses over a limited range. The B-R equations don't do so well with strange wave shapes, multiple flashes, complex flash chains, and many other complications. Nevertheless the FAA still uses B-R. The Cessna beacon was approved years ago and still complies with the old standard. The new FAA standard (which YOU must use) is much brighter. The best reason to use LEDs for brake lights is that the distance you need to stop when the guy in front of you stops is markedly increased due to not having the delay needed to heat up a tungsten lamp. This is much safer but probably has nothing to do with the wave shape and wouldn't help much in aviation. An LED engineer suggested to me that I use the newest board-mounted red LEDs because they can produce much higher-energy flashes (or even Ie) than white (or anything else). I intend to do so. Attached is my paper on LED beacons. The last couple paragraphs show their age. These beacons are easier and cheaper than they were 8 years ago. Comments appreciated. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385645#385645 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/aircraft_beacons_using_leds_551.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2012
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: $20 B-crimp tool find
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Subject: turn coordinator causing noice in headset
From: "jerrytex" <jery230(at)tconline.net>
Date: Oct 22, 2012
I have had a good deal of electrical issues from strobe noise, to bad crimps that burned up wires. I have slowly but surely resolved alot of the issues. Recently I installed an LED landing light. During the course I found other wiring issues that have been resolved too. However I have strange problem now. I can hear my Falcon Electronic turn coordinator in my headset. It is whining very noticeably. What is weird is if I turn ON the landing light, the noise goes away. Turn the light off and the noise comes back. I worked on this for hours trying various things with no luck. Here are some things I tried and the results. 1. re-did all the grounds on everything. No change. 2. disconnected turn coordinator. Noise gone with or without the landing light on. 3. disconnect comm antenna at radio pigtail. Noise is gone. 4. hooked up rubber ducky antenna totally isolated from plane and the noise comes back. 5. hooked up turn coordinator directly to the battery (this fixed the strobe noise problem) totally isolating it from the bus power supply. Noise is the same. In every instance though, I can turn on the landing light and the noise goes away. I don't get it? It seems like it is coming in through the antenna but why would turning the landing light on make it go away. Anyone have any ideas? Filter maybe? Plane is a Kitfox with 912 ul. Icom radio IC A-200 Flightcom intercom DM antenna Lightspeed QFR headset Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385810#385810 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Current Limiter Question...
From: "idleup" <matt(at)mattandmel.com>
Date: Oct 22, 2012
I am a bit confused and thought I would ask here for clarification. I am trying to design my electrical system from Z-13/8. It looks as though there is a direct route for the power direct to the battery and if the wire from the master relay to the power buss shorts out the full current of the battery would flow with no circuit protection? should their be a current limiter between there? Also, it is not specified on the drawing, is this a 4AWG wire between the battery contactor and the main power bus? Thanks, Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385816#385816 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Current Limiter Question...
At 04:32 PM 10/22/2012, you wrote: > >I am a bit confused and thought I would ask here for clarification. >I am trying to design my electrical system from Z-13/8. It looks as >though there is a direct route for the power direct to the battery >and if the wire from the master relay to the power buss shorts out >the full current of the battery would flow with no circuit >protection? should their be a current limiter between there? No. Those are "fat wire" feeders that have never benefited from circuit protection in light aircraft. This philosophy is an echo of design goals for light aircraft as described in FAR23: Sec. 23.1357 Circuit protective devices. (a) Protective devices, such as fuses or circuit breakers, must be installed in all electrical circuits other than-- (1) Main circuits of starter motors used during starting only; and (2) Circuits in which no hazard is presented by their omission. (b) A protective device for a circuit essential to flight safety may not be used to protect any other circuit. (c) Each resettable circuit protective device ("trip free" device in which the tripping mechanism cannot be overridden by the operating control) must be designed so that-- (1) A manual operation is required to restore service after tripping; and (2) If an overload or circuit fault exists, the device will open the circuit regardless of the position of the operating control. (d) If the ability to reset a circuit breaker or replace a fuse is essential to safety in flight, that circuit breaker or fuse must be so located and identified that it can be readily reset or replaced in flight. (e) For fuses identified as replaceable in flight-- (1) There must be one spare of each rating or 50 percent spare fuses of each rating, whichever is greater; and (2) The spare fuse(s) must be readily accessible to any required pilot. >Also, it is not specified on the drawing, is this a 4AWG wire >between the battery contactor and the main power bus? How much current is going to flow in it? The z-figures are ARCHITECTURE drawings, not wiring diagrams. The wire sizes are selected in accordance with anticipated loads. 4AWG is certainly large enough and wouldn't hurt but it could be smaller as dictated by a load analysis. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noice in headset
At 03:21 PM 10/22/2012, you wrote: > >I have had a good deal of electrical issues from strobe noise, to >bad crimps that burned up wires. I have slowly but surely resolved >alot of the issues. Recently I installed an LED landing light. >During the course I found other wiring issues that have been >resolved too. However I have strange problem now. I can hear my >Falcon Electronic turn coordinator in my headset. It is whining very >noticeably. What is weird is if I turn ON the landing light, the >noise goes away. Turn the light off and the noise comes back. I >worked on this for hours trying various things with no luck. Here >are some things I tried and the results. > >1. re-did all the grounds on everything. No change. >2. disconnected turn coordinator. Noise gone with or without the >landing light on. >3. disconnect comm antenna at radio pigtail. Noise is gone. >4. hooked up rubber ducky antenna totally isolated from plane and >the noise comes back. >5. hooked up turn coordinator directly to the battery (this fixed >the strobe noise problem) totally isolating it from the bus power >supply. Noise is the same. Your experimental results suggest radiated noise . . . probably through wiring. These filters are on sale right now http://tinyurl.com/8aszmkb Put an order in at http://tinyurl.com/36e7ddd I'll mail you one. If it fixes it, I'll bill you the $10 + postage. If not, we gotta go to plan B. >In every instance though, I can turn on the landing light and the >noise goes away. I don't get it? Those T/C are noteworthy for their noise generation. You could first try installing a 0.1 uF, capacitor (Radio Shack 272-1053) across the incoming power pins at the back of the instrument. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: VHF Interference With Wing Leveler
Date: Oct 23, 2012
I have a NavAid Wing leveler installed in my RV. Works as advertised - most of the time. When I transmit on the radio (Apollo SL-60,) I get a strong right turn input. The input ceases immediately and the wings are abruptly leveled when the transmission stops. The radio antenna is directly below the NavAid servo. The wires to the servo are shielded. Is there any way to filter the interference? By the way, the NavAid company is now defunct and not available for support. Charlie Brame RV-6A, N11CB San Antonio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: VHF Interference With Wing Leveler
At 11:16 AM 10/23/2012, you wrote: I have a NavAid Wing leveler installed in my RV. Works as advertised - most of the time. When I transmit on the radio (Apollo SL-60,) I get a strong right turn input. The input ceases immediately and the wings are abruptly leveled when the transmission stops. The radio antenna is directly below the NavAid servo. The wires to the servo are shielded. Is there any way to filter the interference? By the way, the NavAid company is now defunct and not available for support. I had some discussions with the original owner/designer over this same issue about 15 years ago at OSH. He was reluctant/unable to rise to the design goal of making sure his product would perform as advertised in airplanes with transmitters on board. Shielded wire is of little if any value in fixing an RFI issue. Filtering wires as they enter a shielded environment on the potential antagonist or victim is the time honored approach . . . I don't recall when . . . or even if it happend on this List . . . there was some discussion that I think resulted in a successful 'fix'. Does anyone else on the List recall? Do you have schematics for the black-boxes? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: VHF Interference With Wing Leveler
At 12:44 PM 10/23/2012, you wrote: At 11:16 AM 10/23/2012, you wrote: I have a NavAid Wing leveler installed in my RV. Works as advertised - most of the time. When I transmit on the radio (Apollo SL-60,) I get a strong right turn input. The input ceases immediately and the wings are abruptly leveled when the transmission stops. The radio antenna is directly below the NavAid servo. The wires to the servo are shielded. Is there any way to filter the interference? By the way, the NavAid company is now defunct and not available for support. I had some discussions with the original owner/designer over this same issue about 15 years ago at OSH. He was reluctant/unable to rise to the design goal of making sure his product would perform as advertised in airplanes with transmitters on board. Shielded wire is of little if any value in fixing an RFI issue. Filtering wires as they enter a shielded environment on the potential antagonist or victim is the time honored approach . . . I don't recall when . . . or even if it happend on this List . . . there was some discussion that I think resulted in a successful 'fix'. Does anyone else on the List recall? Do you have schematics for the black-boxes? P.S. ============================================== Text on page 11 of the installation manual found at http://tinyurl.com/9xh5l6r describes the function of a diode added to the PTT line for a transmitter shown on page 9. This apparently serves to 'lock up' the servo during transmit intervals thus preventing the otherwise vulnerable servo from reacting to strong RF. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2012
From: Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: VHF Interference With Wing Leveler
Charlie, The NavAid wing leveler installation instructions show an optional diode and connection to the com radio PTT. With them the A/P is disabled while the PTT is depressed, allowing it to "do nothing" in the event of RFI. NavAid manuals are available here: http://www.porcine.com/gps/sc/ftp_manuals.html -- Joe Independence, OR http://www.mail2600.com/cgi-bin/position.cgi?call=N821RP Charles Brame wrote: > > I have a NavAid Wing leveler installed in my RV. Works as advertised - > most of the time. When I transmit on the radio (Apollo SL-60,) I get a > strong right turn input. The input ceases immediately and the wings are > abruptly leveled when the transmission stops. The radio antenna is > directly below the NavAid servo. The wires to the servo are shielded. Is > there any way to filter the interference? > > By the way, the NavAid company is now defunct and not available for > support. > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A, N11CB > San Antonio > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2012
From: David Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
> > It seems like it is coming in through the antenna but why would turning the landing > light on make it go away. Anyone have any ideas? Filter maybe? You didn't mention whether the noise is there only when receiving a signal or in your headset all the time. This is important. If it's only when you're receiving a signal I would agree with Bob's suggestion that it's radiated, and a filter would help. Turning the landing light on probably drops the voltage sufficiently that the current spikes drawn by the inverter in the t/c are significantly smaller than with the light off. -- David Josephson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
From: "jerrytex" <jery230(at)tconline.net>
Date: Oct 23, 2012
The noise is there always, regardless of transmitting or receiving. I can put my headset on, turn on the master, listen to the gyro spin up in the headset, then turn on the landing the light, and the noise goes away. Or I can disconnect the antenna, and the noise goes away. I read on a yahoo group in which someone else was having the same issue but there was no fix listed. I'll try the CAPACITOR and if that doesn't work, I'll order the filter. Thanks for the responses. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385882#385882 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
From: D L Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
> From: "jerrytex"<jery230(at)tconline.net> > > > The noise is there always, regardless of transmitting or receiving. I can put my > headset on, turn on the master, listen to the gyro spin up in the headset, then > turn on the landing the light, and the noise goes away. Or I can disconnect > the antenna, and the noise goes away. I read on a yahoo group in which someone Unless the noise is actually breaking squelch in the radio I'm going to bet on common impedance coupling aka a ground loop, and that your rubber duck antenna cable is still making a connection to the airframe somewhere. Is the headset connected directly to the radio, or to an intercom? Anyway, try the capacitor and then a better filter. Keep the leads (of either) very short, connect right at the connector of the t/c. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
Unless the noise is actually breaking squelch in the radio I'm going to bet on common impedance coupling aka a ground loop, and that your rubber duck antenna cable is still making a connection to the airframe somewhere. Is the headset connected directly to the radio, or to an intercom? Anyway, try the capacitor and then a better filter. Keep the leads (of either) very short, connect right at the connector of the t/c. Waaayyyy back when, there was a t/c noise incident that proved to be MAGNETIC radiation directly from the innards of the instrument. I don't recall now what brand. THAT fix called for wrapping the plastic instrument case with ferrous sheet metal. I think he cut it from a gallon can and put two or three layers around it secured with tie wraps. Never had these problems when suck-n-blow systems were king . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noice in headset
From: "jerrytex" <jery230(at)tconline.net>
Date: Oct 24, 2012
I tried the capacitor and it didn't make any difference. I went ahead and filled out the order for the filter and I'll give that a try. In response to the question about the intercom....the headset is hooked up to an intercom. I have isolated the headset jacks with plastic washers. The noise only can be heard when the radio is on. With just the intercom on, there is no noise. Thanks again for the responses. Jerry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385918#385918 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
From: rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: thermocouple calibration
Greetings, I calibrated the 3 TM-902C hand held instruments. I was able to adjust them to read the same at both 0 and 100 deg C. It seemed to take 2-3 cycles from cold to hot and back to get them to settle down, but once they did they all were very consistent at both ends of the range tested. As I reviewed Bob's posting I noticed that the boards in mine are a different layout than the one pictured. I'll include a picture of mine if I can get to upload. On mine one adjustment point is to the left of the yellow connector (6:30 position) near the edge of the board. The second is located at the 3:00 position. The 6:30 position adjusts the readout at 0 deg C. The 3:00 position adjusts the readout at 100 deg C. As I mentioned earlier it seemed to take 2-3 cycles before it becomes stable. On both adjustments turning clockwise lowered the value displayed. CCW raised it. thermo2 -- Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
From: rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: thermocouple calibration P.S.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
From: rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: thermocouple calibration P.S.
2nd try! P. S. to the post below. The procedure I used was to immerse the probe in ice water and adjust the display to 0 deg C. Next was to immerse the probe in boiling water and adjust the display to 100 deg C. Repeat until no further adjustment is needed. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 10/24/2012 05:07 PM, rayj wrote: > Greetings, > > I calibrated the 3 TM-902C hand held instruments. I was able to > adjust them to read the same at both 0 and 100 deg C. It seemed to > take 2-3 cycles from cold to hot and back to get them to settle down, > but once they did they all were very consistent at both ends of the > range tested. > > As I reviewed Bob's posting I noticed that the boards in mine are a > different layout than the one pictured. I'll include a picture of > mine if I can get to upload. > > On mine one adjustment point is to the left of the yellow connector > (6:30 position) near the edge of the board. The second is located at > the 3:00 position. > > The 6:30 position adjusts the readout at 0 deg C. The 3:00 position > adjusts the readout at 100 deg C. As I mentioned earlier it seemed to > take 2-3 cycles before it becomes stable. > > On both adjustments turning clockwise lowered the value displayed. > CCW raised it. > -- > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
From: fedico94(at)mchsi.com
Subject: Re: Compatable Shunt
The 60 amp alternator reads now on the G3X system. I do not have a reading on the Auxillary alternator even though I have installed another 50 mv/100 amp shunt. When I get the cowling off then I will switch the wires. The auxillary alt ammeter still has a red "x" through it. How did things work out with the folks at Garmin ? Any new insights ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Compatable Shunt > The shunt sent to me by the Avionics shop for use with the Garmin > is 100 amp/50mv and the one B & C supplied and installed in the > plane is 60 amp at 50mv. My confusion and question concerns the > schematic from Garmin that says the shunt is rated at 0.0005 > Ohm. The B & C supplied system with its shunt is 50mv/60 amp gives > me 0.00083 Ohm. > >First are my calculations correct and second does this have any >bearing on the inability to display the ammeter reading ? If the >above is not contributing to the problem should I look elsewhere in >the system for the problem ? (Prior to turning on the field of the >60 amp alternator I get the main volts waring light flashing and >goes off after the field is activated. Remainder of G3X works fine) The size of the shunt is relative only to calibration of the display. If you have no display, then the problem is not with the shunt. If the display is present but inaccurate, THEN you probably have a shunt problem. A shut is just a high power resistor . . . abeit a special resistor manufactured from amazium alloy with a near zero temperature coefficient of resistance. The material is actually Manganin. http://tinyurl.com/3f79fgy When your current display is a LOADMETER calibrated in 0-100%, then the shunt is sized to what ever that 100% value is . . . in case of the 60A alternator, you would use a 60A shunt. If it were a 100A alternator, then a 100A shunt. Interestingly enough, using a 100A shunt in ALL installations converts the 0-100% display to a 0-100A display. I suspect that the 100A shunt recommended by the avionics shop is based on some knowledge that the EFIS calls 50mv drop 100Amps and that size shunt will read ANY practical current up to 100A accurately. Substitution of a 60A shunt would simply mean that your 100A display was really a 100% display. Looking past calibration issues, if your display is non-reading, the difficulty lies elsewhere. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: thermocouple calibration P.S.
At 07:00 PM 10/24/2012, you wrote: >2nd try! > >P. S. to the post below. > >The procedure I used was to immerse the probe in ice water and >adjust the display to 0 deg C. Next was to immerse the probe in >boiling water and adjust the display to 100 deg C. Repeat until no >further adjustment is needed. Good data sir! Thanks! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Compatable Shunt
At 08:30 PM 10/24/2012, you wrote: > >The 60 amp alternator reads now on the G3X system. I do not have a >reading on the Auxillary alternator even though I have installed >another 50 mv/100 amp shunt. When I get the cowling off then I will >switch the wires. The auxillary alt ammeter still has a red "x" >through it. How did things work out with the folks at Garmin ? Any >new insights ? Do I recall correctly that a local individual correctly diagnosed/rectified a similar difficulty with the main alternator shunt? Aside from a reasoned deduction that the G3X system is calibrated to read 1 mv of shunt signal as 1 amp of measured current, I don't have enough data to suggest a root cause for the problem repeating on the aux alternator shunt. You spoke of 'switching wires' . . . exactly what is the proposed experiment. It MIGHT be that the 'x' is in response to a minus reading . . . so if there are any wires to be swapped, it would be only the small wires that run from the shunt to the G3X ammeter input pins. I won't be face-to-face with the Garmin folks I mentioned until next spring or perhaps later. As a paid user of the Garmin products it would seem that you're better advised to strike up a conversation with Garmin yourself. You might inquire of the individual who fixed the other shunt as to what he discovered and the rationale for his actions that solved the problem. Discussions on forums like this are most productive when an individual with specific knowledge and experience can contribute. All the rest of us can only hypothesize on possible causes . . . those hypotheses are based on the depth and purity of observations offered. It seems the path to understanding and resolution has already been demonstrated. I'm not trying to be obtuse my friend - but neither I or anyone else can do more than make educated guesses without having special knowledge of the circumstances. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noice in headset
At 09:07 AM 10/24/2012, you wrote: > >I tried the capacitor and it didn't make any difference. I went >ahead and filled out the order for the filter and I'll give that a try. > >In response to the question about the intercom....the headset is >hooked up to an intercom. I have isolated the headset jacks with >plastic washers. The noise only can be heard when the radio is on. >With just the intercom on, there is no noise. Okay, have you tried the experiment wherein the T/C is powered by a separate string of dry-cells? In other words, have you explored the +14v power input to the T/C is the egress port for the interference? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2012
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Compatable Shunt
Speaking of shunts, B&C doesn't sell a 40A shunt to match their 40A alternator. The next size up is 75A and the next size down, 30. What to do? Ed Holyoke On 10/25/2012 9:26 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Compatable Shunt
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Ed, Shunt rating is not directly related to alternator output. It is directly related to how the ammeter is calibrated. Therefore you must match the shunt w/ the ammeter. Also, there is nothing magic about manufacturer/ammeter/shunt compatibility. A shunt is essentially a highly-calibrated resistor. So a shunt from manufacturer A will work just fine w/ an ammeter from B as long as their "mili-volt" rating is the same. The ammeter will tell you, for example, that it requires a 50 amp, 50mV shunt. (You want to have an ammeter/shunt current-rating that exceeds the alternator output). Ed, in your case you need to decide what range ammeter works for your application. I might recommend a 50 amp ammeter, or maybe a 60 amp is a little more common. Then buy the appropriately-rated shunt for that ammeter (from any manufacturer) and you will be good-to-go. You may never get full deflection on the positive/charge side of the ammeter (because the alternator only puts out 40 of the 60 amp the gauge can display) but that's not a big deal. (BTW - I always recommend a zero-center ammeter because it can show a lot of useful info, however, the shunt must be placed in the correct location in the battery circuit. But that discussion is beyond the scope of this message) I recently shopped for ammeter hardware and I decided on a 60A VDO ammeter (they are a little pricey, but I like the way they look and the 270 degree needle sweep is really cool!). Then I bought a shunt from whoever had a good price. I think I got the shunt from AC Spruce and was about $35 (the VDO shunt was over $70 and was gigantic) - It all works just fine. You might look at ACSpruce as they have several ammeters & shunts available. In the attached photo, the shunt is the thing just right of center and has a light-green base. Don't forget to fuse BOTH wires that go from the shunt to the ammeter. They are both hot B+. This is the "power panel" for my RV-7. It's handy because it sticks all the high-current components in a 6x6 inch space and makes wiring very easy. I know - too much information, Jeff Luckey _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 09:48 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Compatable Shunt Speaking of shunts, B&C doesn't sell a 40A shunt to match their 40A alternator. The next size up is 75A and the next size down, 30. What to do? Ed Holyoke On 10/25/2012 9:26 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Compatable Shunt
At 11:48 AM 10/25/2012, you wrote: >Speaking of shunts, B&C doesn't sell a 40A shunt to match their 40A >alternator. The next size up is 75A and the next size down, 30. What to do? It depends on what you want the shunt to do . . . What is the proposed display for data offered by the shunt? If it's a 'steam gage' then the shunt must be sized to millivolts/amp that are matched to that gage. The legacy shunt/instrument configuration suggests that a shunt driven ammeter have a full scale indication when fed with a 50 millivolt DC signal. This 50 mv 'standard' is what drives the shunt manufacturing community to offer ratings like 60A/50mv and 100A/50mv. These same shunts paired with an 40 mv instrument would provide full scale displays at 48 and 80 amps respectively. The shunt is a 4-terminal resistor with a very low temperature coefficient of resistance. The loadmeters I offer are actually 53mv full scale devices. Further, the instruments are intended to be loadmeters that display a PERCENTAGE of rated load for the circuit being monitored. http://tinyurl.com/dx9sz3e If the customer wants 100A full scale loadmeter, the shunt would be specified as 100A/53mv. I custom-scale the shunt to the match the instrument in conformity with customer design goals. We've been having some discussions about shunts used with the Garmin G3X system where the manual calls for 100A/50mv shunts. This is a constant because the instrument is scaled to display 2A per millivolt . . . irrespective of the size of the alternator or other limits that would never produce so large a display. If you are driving a loadmeter scaled to your 40A alternator, then you'll need a 40A/50mv shunt . . . which I can craft for you. If your ammeter is a steam gage, then the shunt needs to be paired with the instrument's full scale value irrespective of the alternator's output. If you're driving an electronic display that can be calibrated by the installer, then a 30A or 60A shunt can be used . . . and compensated for by the calibration procedure. So we need to know more about how the shunt is used and what the instrument expects. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Oct 25, 2012
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Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noice in headset
From: "jerrytex" <jery230(at)tconline.net>
Date: Oct 26, 2012
No I have not hooked up the T/C to a seperate power supply. I'll try that as soon as I can and report back. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386038#386038 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2012
From: Roberto Waltman <aero(at)rwaltman.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
jerrytex wrote: > The noise is there always, regardless of transmitting or receiving. I can put my headset on, turn on the master, listen to the gyro spin up in the headset, then turn on the landing the light, and the noise goes away. An uneducated guess: The noise is introduced via the supply bus, and turning the light on somehow provides a lower impedance path to ground that attenuates it. The suggestion to add capacitors sounds good, how many and where, that's a different story. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
At 10:07 AM 10/26/2012, you wrote: > >jerrytex wrote: >>The noise is there always, regardless of transmitting or receiving. >>I can put my headset on, turn on the master, listen to the gyro >>spin up in the headset, then turn on the landing the light, and the >>noise goes away. > >An uneducated guess: The noise is introduced via the supply bus, and >turning the light on somehow provides a lower impedance path to >ground that attenuates it. The suggestion to add capacitors sounds >good, how many and where, that's a different story. It's an intriguing symptom. The hypothesis has some weight. Waaayyyy back when, we believed that a battery offered an effective electromotive mass across the bus. That bubble burst when I was fine tuning the feedback loops on the B&C linear regulators. With a bus voltage above battery-delivery potential; greater than 12.5 volts and less than battery-charging potential; less than 14.0 volts, the battery is essentially 'open circuit'. The most challenging condition for bench marking regulator performance was with a fully charged battery and relatively light loads. Turning a even a 55w landing light on would appear as a parallel impedance on the order of 3 ohms . . . perhaps significant in comparison with the sum of impedances in this system. It would be interesting to probe the system with some test equipment . . . If this antagonist is propagating through the power leads, then an L/C filter having inductance facing the T/C is called for. The interesting detail is a notion that the noise spectrum covers VHF frequencies and gets into the victim via the antenna. This suggests that relatively small values of L/C would be effective. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Cole <lynncole(at)foxvalley.net>
Subject: Hand-Held NAV-COM
Date: Oct 27, 2012
I have an old hand-held NAV-COM marketed by Satellite Technology Services, Inc. of St. Louis, MO. It works well on 720 channels of COM and 200 channels of NAV, but the center pin of the external power-supply jack is broken. It has a removable battery pack that takes 6 AA batteries. The instruction manual talks about a 7.2-volt NiCad battery pack, but it works well using 6 alkaline batteries (9 volts). However, it uses up the batteries quite rapidly, and I would like to find a way of attaching an external power supply. I checked the web and found 3 references to the company, a BBB report, a lawsuit, and a patent assignment. Apparently they don't have a web site. I don't know whether they still support the radio. My options seem to be: 1. Replace the power-supply jack. It seems to be a special jack that is soldered into the main board. I have not been able to find the correct jack from any of the usual electronics suppliers. 2. Remove the jack, solder a pigtail to the board, and connect the pigtail to a new jack that would dangle from the case. 3. Modify the battery pack, possibly by making a pair of dummy batteries that would connect to an external power jack. This is attractive because the instruction manual says to disconnect the battery pack (to avoid damaging it) when the external power supply is used. Whichever option I choose I will need two power supplies, one to connect to connect to the cigarette-lighter in the airplane, and the other to connect to the 120-V AC power. Any suggestions for these? ----- Lynn Cole LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2012
From: D L Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
> If this antagonist is propagating through the power leads, then an L/C > filter having inductance facing the T/C is called for. The interesting > detail is a notion that the noise spectrum covers VHF frequencies and > gets into the victim via the antenna. This suggests that relatively > small values of L/C would be effective. It's an interesting puzzle, but I think the antenna part is a wrong tree up which to bark. He hears it while transmitting too, and it's in his headset as soon as he turns on the intercom -- not necessarily on top of a received signal. My hunch it that it's common impedance coupling and that the antenna cable is getting a path to ground even for his "isolated" rubber duck antenna. One of these ground paths or power paths is shared with the current spikes from the t/c. Batteries are an effective filter impedance but only in the early part of their lifecycle. As they age, and long before they stop being effective batteries, the internal impedance rises. The landing light doesn't do that. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Oct 28, 2012
Might I suggest that the T/C noise might be an indication that the T/C needs repair/mods/replacement? (I have no notion of what is inside it. But I'd sure start looking there.) -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386140#386140 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Hand-Held NAV-COM
At 12:03 PM 10/27/2012, you wrote: >I have an old hand-held NAV-COM marketed by Satellite Technology >Services, Inc. of St. Louis, MO. It works well on 720 channels of >COM and 200 channels of NAV, but the center pin of the external >power-supply jack is broken. It has a removable battery pack that >takes 6 AA batteries. The instruction manual talks about a 7.2-volt >NiCad battery pack, but it works well using 6 alkaline batteries (9 >volts). However, it uses up the batteries quite rapidly, and I >would like to find a way of attaching an external power supply. > >I checked the web and found 3 references to the company, a BBB >report, a lawsuit, and a patent assignment. Apparently they don't >have a web site. I don't know whether they still support the radio. > >My options seem to be: >1. Replace the power-supply jack. It seems to be a special jack >that is soldered into the main board. I have not been able to find >the correct jack from any of the usual electronics suppliers. > >2. Remove the jack, solder a pigtail to the board, and connect the >pigtail to a new jack that would dangle from the case. > >3. Modify the battery pack, possibly by making a pair of dummy >batteries that would connect to an external power jack. This is >attractive because the instruction manual says to disconnect the >battery pack (to avoid damaging it) when the external power supply is used. > >Whichever option I choose I will need two power supplies, one to >connect to connect to the cigarette-lighter in the airplane, and the >other to connect to the 120-V AC power. Any suggestions for these? Search on STS "AV-7600" and you'll get more hits. A friend of mine in Wichita works on hand-helds and might be able to repair/replace the existing jack. If you go the pigtail route, you can power up from a/c mains with a power supply like this: http://tinyurl.com/963xg74 there are many similar models at very reasonable prices on eBay. You probably don't want to apply a 14-15 volt bus directly to this radio. Some sort of boost-buck dc/dc converter that will give you a constant 12v out for a range of inputs that goes both above and below the output setting. http://tinyurl.com/9dqt39k Bob . . . >----- >Lynn Cole >LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net > > ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org>
Date: Oct 28, 2012
Subject: B&C alternator diagnosis
Dear Bob et al, I'm the owner but not the builder of a 1979 VariEze equipped with a starterless O-200 and a B&C alternator (the 12-amp 200G model, I believe). I don't have an ammeter in the cockpit. I do have an LED bar-graph voltmeter in which I have placed little trust over the past year or so, since it was showing around 12 volts rather than the expected 13+. Perhaps I should have been more trusting. Last week I had an electrical failure in flight, on a nice day over familiar terrain. The first sign of trouble was the backlight brightness decreasing on my Garmin 480; it subsequently reset itself and then failed entirely. I have one magneto and one Lightspeed electronic ignition, and not much else in the way of electronics in the cockpit. Turning off the magneto resulted in rough running - presumably the EI was trying its best to keep up with the low bus voltage but didn't have enough juice to fire every time. Anyway I got the green light signal from Livermore tower and landed without incident. The battery measured 11.7 volts open-circuit. This weekend I tried to diagnose the problem. The alternator circuit breaker seems to be fine. I removed the regulator (see pics linked below). The B&C alternator is a brushless model and only has two wires coming out of it; I think the regulator is essentially a bridge rectifier and a linear voltage regulator. B&C currently seems to sell a separate "rectifier-type regulator" [1] and "crowbar" overvoltage protection circuit [2]. I'm not sure if what I have is just the regulator or a combination of the two. It looks to be completely potted in resin except for one adjustment screw. It has four wires - red (bus +), black (gnd) and two blue (alternator). With a multimeter on diode mode I measured 0.55V drop from either blue wire to the red, as you'd expect with a bridge rectifier. There was also 1.2V drop from black to red, again as would be expected. But it showed "open circuit" from black to either blue. Adjusting the screw (which appeared to turn freely for 20+ revolutions, like one of those multi-turn pots with the clutch) made no difference. I plugged the regulator back in to the alternator (but not to the aircraft bus), started the engine and observed 0.0V output on the red and black wires. I disconnected the regulator again, measured the alternator wires directly and saw around 17V AC. So - the regulator's bad, right? It's not just trying to do something clever in response to an open bus connection? I just want to be sure I'm not missing something before I order a new one. Thanks very much, Henry Photos: Alternator - http://i.imgur.com/nIWgG.jpg http://i.imgur.com/w8WlE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ihwXI.jpg Regulator - http://i.imgur.com/QXQUr.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ng9TH.jpg [1] http://www.bandc.biz/regulator14vhomebuilt.aspx [2] http://www.bandc.biz/pmovfilterandovprotectionkit14v.aspx ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org>
Date: Oct 28, 2012
Subject: Re: B&C alternator diagnosis
The mystery deepens. I connected the regulator to the alternator and hooked the output of the regulator directly to the battery. Ran the engine, saw the battery voltage increase from 12.15V (to which I had previously trickle-charged it) to 12.4V and gradually over a few minutes up to 12.8V. I removed the regulator output from the battery (engine still running) and saw the output voltage from the regulator rise to 15.0V. Connected it back to the battery via an ammeter and saw 3.5A charge current - roughly what I should expect for an engine idling around 1100 rpm. Adjusting the regulator's screw while all this was happening didn't seem to change much. So now I'm at a loss - it seems to be working again. Do you think it's still a good idea to replace the regulator? The only other thing I noticed is that one screw terminal on the battery was not tight - not terribly loose, but I could undo it with just my fingers. I guess I will put it all back together with a trusted voltmeter in the cockpit and go fly in VMC for a while, but I'd love to hear ideas. Thanks, Henry On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Henry Hallam wrote: > > Dear Bob et al, > > I'm the owner but not the builder of a 1979 VariEze equipped with a > starterless O-200 and a B&C alternator (the 12-amp 200G model, I > believe). I don't have an ammeter in the cockpit. I do have an LED > bar-graph voltmeter in which I have placed little trust over the past > year or so, since it was showing around 12 volts rather than the > expected 13+. Perhaps I should have been more trusting. > > Last week I had an electrical failure in flight, on a nice day over > familiar terrain. The first sign of trouble was the backlight > brightness decreasing on my Garmin 480; it subsequently reset itself > and then failed entirely. I have one magneto and one Lightspeed > electronic ignition, and not much else in the way of electronics in > the cockpit. Turning off the magneto resulted in rough running - > presumably the EI was trying its best to keep up with the low bus > voltage but didn't have enough juice to fire every time. Anyway I got > the green light signal from Livermore tower and landed without > incident. The battery measured 11.7 volts open-circuit. > > This weekend I tried to diagnose the problem. The alternator circuit > breaker seems to be fine. I removed the regulator (see pics linked > below). The B&C alternator is a brushless model and only has two > wires coming out of it; I think the regulator is essentially a bridge > rectifier and a linear voltage regulator. B&C currently seems to sell > a separate "rectifier-type regulator" [1] and "crowbar" overvoltage > protection circuit [2]. I'm not sure if what I have is just the > regulator or a combination of the two. It looks to be completely > potted in resin except for one adjustment screw. It has four wires - > red (bus +), black (gnd) and two blue (alternator). > > With a multimeter on diode mode I measured 0.55V drop from either blue > wire to the red, as you'd expect with a bridge rectifier. There was > also 1.2V drop from black to red, again as would be expected. But it > showed "open circuit" from black to either blue. Adjusting the screw > (which appeared to turn freely for 20+ revolutions, like one of those > multi-turn pots with the clutch) made no difference. > > I plugged the regulator back in to the alternator (but not to the > aircraft bus), started the engine and observed 0.0V output on the red > and black wires. I disconnected the regulator again, measured the > alternator wires directly and saw around 17V AC. > > So - the regulator's bad, right? It's not just trying to do something > clever in response to an open bus connection? I just want to be sure > I'm not missing something before I order a new one. > > > Thanks very much, > Henry > > Photos: > Alternator - http://i.imgur.com/nIWgG.jpg > http://i.imgur.com/w8WlE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ihwXI.jpg > Regulator - http://i.imgur.com/QXQUr.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ng9TH.jpg > > > [1] http://www.bandc.biz/regulator14vhomebuilt.aspx > [2] http://www.bandc.biz/pmovfilterandovprotectionkit14v.aspx > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Cole <LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net>
Subject: Re: Hand-Held NAV-COM
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Thanks! ----- Lynn Cole LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net On Oct 28, 2012, at 2:22 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 12:03 PM 10/27/2012, you wrote: >> I have an old hand-held NAV-COM marketed by Satellite Technology Services, Inc. of St. Louis, MO. It works well on 720 channels of COM and 200 channels of NAV, but the center pin of the external power-supply jack is broken. It has a removable battery pack that takes 6 AA batteries. The instruction manual talks about a 7.2-volt NiCad battery pack, but it works well using 6 alkaline batteries (9 volts). However, it uses up the batteries quite rapidly, and I would like to find a way of attaching an external power supply. >> >> I checked the web and found 3 references to the company, a BBB report, a lawsuit, and a patent assignment. Apparently they don't have a web site. I don't know whether they still support the radio. >> >> My options seem to be: >> 1. Replace the power-supply jack. It seems to be a special jack that is soldered into the main board. I have not been able to find the correct jack from any of the usual electronics suppliers. >> >> 2. Remove the jack, solder a pigtail to the board, and connect the pigtail to a new jack that would dangle from the case. >> >> 3. Modify the battery pack, possibly by making a pair of dummy batteries that would connect to an external power jack. This is attractive because the instruction manual says to disconnect the battery pack (to avoid damaging it) when the external power supply is used. >> >> Whichever option I choose I will need two power supplies, one to connect to connect to the cigarette-lighter in the airplane, and the other to connect to the 120-V AC power. Any suggestions for these? > > Search on STS "AV-7600" and you'll get more hits. > > A friend of mine in Wichita works on hand-helds and > might be able to repair/replace the existing jack. > > If you go the pigtail route, you can power up from > a/c mains with a power supply like this: > > http://tinyurl.com/963xg74 > > there are many similar models at very reasonable prices > on eBay. > > You probably don't want to apply a 14-15 volt bus > directly to this radio. Some sort of boost-buck > dc/dc converter that will give you a constant 12v > out for a range of inputs that goes both above and > below the output setting. > > http://tinyurl.com/9dqt39k > > Bob . . . > > > >> ----- >> Lynn Cole >> LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net >> >> >> >> >> >> AeroElectric-List Email Forum - >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> http://forums.matronics.com >> - List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> 10/27/12 > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: B&C alternator diagnosis
>Adjusting the regulator's screw while all >this was happening didn't seem to change much. This alternator output is too small to be set reliably at combinations of low rpm and significant load. >So now I'm at a loss - it seems to be working again. Do you think >it's still a good idea to replace the regulator? The only other thing >I noticed is that one screw terminal on the battery was not tight - >not terribly loose, but I could undo it with just my fingers. I guess >I will put it all back together with a trusted voltmeter in the >cockpit and go fly in VMC for a while, but I'd love to hear ideas. The regulator can be accurately adjusted ONLY with a fully charged battery, very light sytem loads (suggest 2A or less) and SIGNIFICANT rpm, like something 2000 or better. The alternator is exceedingly robust . . . very unlikely to fail. The rectifier/regulator has a very low parts count, is potted for mechanical ruggedness and is vulnerable to few stresses OTHER than overheat. If it has a history of good performance (Not accurately known without an accurate voltmeter) what appears to be a transient failure may have been a poor connection that got 'cured' as a product of removal and replacement. If it were my airplane, I'd fit it with a voltmeter of trustworthy accuracy. Also, a low voltage warning light so that future failures are not a surprise. Find out where the system voltage stabilizes under light load after some sustained operations . . . say just before descent to land on your next trip. Make little tweeks of the potentiometer setting based on these observations. Shoot for 14.2 but settle for 14.0 to 14.5. The successful resolution starts with trustworthy measurement and observation. Where's your rectifier/ regulator mounted? Where does it tie into the electrical system? Do you have a wiring diagram for this airplane that can be scanned/shared? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
From: "jerrytex" <jery230(at)tconline.net>
Date: Oct 29, 2012
As I mentioned earlier, I have had my fair share of electrical issues. It appears that this noise is the result of or partially caused by low voltage directly related to another electrical problem. The original builder wired in a hotbox. In the hotbox instructions it says to run the two AC lines from the alternator to the hotbox. Apparently some of the Hotboxes had the regulator attached to them and jumpers are need to connect to the regulator. In my case, the regulator is on the firewall. The original builder split the the two AC lines with a crimp connector. He had two AC lines going to the hotbox which were not needed and then had two going to the the regulator with the 12 volt DC line output going to the charging circuit. I discovered that these crimp connectors had bad connections causing resistance and ultimately melted the AC wires together essentially shorting out the AC current. That caused the battery to not charge and caused low voltage. I eliminated the split and ran the AC lines directly to the regulator, crimped and soldered all the connections and the alternator is now charging the battery. I charged the battery with a good battery charger and flew yesterday. It appears that the noise is either gone or lessened to the point that I cannot hear over the engine. So I guess that low voltage was the main culprit with the melted wires causing the low voltage situation by not charging the battery. Thanks for all the thoughts and advice on this. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386225#386225 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Subject: radio interference?
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
At Ryan field yesterday a fellow I know who has done an incredible job building a perfect Hatz bi-plane asked me for help with a very odd radio problem. He has about 10 flights on it so far. His brand new ICOM radio produces only very soft, badly garbled reception when his engine (Lyc. O-290) is running. He can't talk to the tower when he's on-airport without stopping the engine. The really odd part is that the same is true if he uses a hand-held radio. (The ICOM has been benched checked by an official shop and looks fine.) His belly mounted antenna was obviously poor since it had a 90 deg. bend it it about 2 inches after it emerges from the plane. It has what looks like a good ground plane. He's switching to a plain, straight whip antenna for next flight. But I doubt it will work any better given the performance of the hand-held. He was also going to fly it once with the magnetos shorted at the magneto (so the wires going from the mag to the switch will be disconnected, thinking they may be radiating somehow). Engine installation looks beautiful, like the rest of the plane. Grounding looks good, all parts are real aircraft parts, spark plugs, wires, etc. Any ideas? -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: vhf transponder interference
From: "jappie" <jappie(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Hello everyone I'm a new member here and looking for some help on a problem I've noticed approx. 2 years ago. 1- When I transmit on my Garmin GNC 250XL, some gauges on my panel go haywire. ie: Mitchell fuel level indicator. 2- When I trasnmit, ATC tells me my altitude changes on his radar ( transponder Garmin GTX-320) encoder AK-350. 3- When I put my X-Ponder from Off to any position ( SBY, ON, ALT ) a "White" noise can be heard in my headset ( only while receiving). 4-Receiving deteriorate as the flight goes. airplane all fiberglass, C-GGYY to see pictures Thank you Jean-Pierre Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386234#386234 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org>
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Subject: Re: B&C alternator diagnosis
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > >> Adjusting the regulator's screw while all >> this was happening didn't seem to change much. > > > This alternator output is too small to be set > reliably at combinations of low rpm and significant > load. Thanks for the insights! I also found this doc on B&C's site: http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/sd8trbreva.pdf that agrees with everything you've said. > The successful resolution starts with trustworthy > measurement and observation. Where's your rectifier/ > regulator mounted? Where does it tie into the electrical > system? Do you have a wiring diagram for this airplane > that can be scanned/shared? > > > Bob . . . I will definitely be fitting a reliable voltmeter and warning light. Unfortunately I don't have a wiring diagram, though I'm working on putting one together from my own notes taken during maintenance and upgrades. My rectifier/regulator is mounted on the engine side of the firewall, in what I think is a relatively cool location (on the high pressure side of the updraft cooling system). The positive output goes via a 14 AWG wire to a 10-amp CB on the instrument panel and from there to the positive battery terminal (battery in the nose of the canard-pusher airplane). The negative output goes to a general ground terminal on the engine mount frame and from there via a similar 14 AWG wire to the negative battery terminal. The instrument power bus is connected to the battery terminals by another set of wires, and there's a third set for the electronic ignition. Any reason not to tune the regulator voltage setpoint on the bench with a constant-current bench supply on the blue wires and my airplane battery on the red+black? Thanks again for the advice. Henry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: B&C alternator diagnosis
>I will definitely be fitting a reliable voltmeter and warning light. >Unfortunately I don't have a wiring diagram, though I'm working on >putting one together from my own notes taken during maintenance and >upgrades. My rectifier/regulator is mounted on the engine side of the >firewall, in what I think is a relatively cool location (on the high >pressure side of the updraft cooling system). Good >The positive output >goes via a 14 AWG wire to a 10-amp CB on the instrument panel and from >there to the positive battery terminal (battery in the nose of the >canard-pusher airplane). Does your airplane have a starter? If so, where is the starter contactor located? >The negative output goes to a general ground >terminal on the engine mount frame and from there via a similar 14 AWG >wire to the negative battery terminal. Hmmmm . . . I deduce that there is no starter and the 14AWG ground is the only conductor between the crankcase and the battery(-)? > The instrument power bus is >connected to the battery terminals by another set of wires, and >there's a third set for the electronic ignition. Hmmmm . . . battery terminal used as a power distribution point. Is there a battery switch? >Any reason not to tune the regulator voltage setpoint on the bench >with a constant-current bench supply on the blue wires and my airplane >battery on the red+black? Yes, this is a crude form of switchmode regulator. Not of the inductor-stored energy variety, but a duty cycle switched series regulator with SCR's that get triggered in a variable position along each half-cycle of the incoming waveform. It must be adjusted under operating conditions that mimic the as-installed condition on the airplane. Here's a schematic of an exemplar rectifier/regulator for a PM alternator: http://tinyurl.com/94585zs When we crafted installation instructions for that regulator/alternator combination on a no-starter airplane years ago, I brought ac power to the battery area on a twisted pair. The R-R was mounted close to the battery so that series resistance in the sense-lines shared with power-delivery lines did not become significant impedances in the control loop. Later drawings published by B&C dropped that configuration. That's been so long ago that I don't recall if I had any conversation with them about the change. I cannot prove that the old configuration was demonstrably 'better' but it was crafted with consideration for deleterious effects of unnecessary resistance in sense feeders shared with power feeders. Don't know if it's an option for you but you might consider using the 14AWG pair coming forward as AC power feeders and move the R-R to the forward space shared with the battery. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: vhf transponder interference
At 04:40 PM 10/29/2012, you wrote: > >Hello everyone > >I'm a new member here and looking for some help on a problem I've >noticed approx. 2 years ago. > >1- When I transmit on my Garmin GNC 250XL, some gauges on my panel >go haywire. ie: Mitchell fuel level indicator. > >2- When I trasnmit, ATC tells me my altitude changes on his radar ( >transponder Garmin GTX-320) encoder AK-350. > >3- When I put my X-Ponder from Off to any position ( SBY, ON, ALT ) >a "White" noise can be heard in my headset ( only while receiving). > >4-Receiving deteriorate as the flight goes. > >airplane all fiberglass, C-GGYY to see pictures Your cockpit is "hot" with RF energy generated by the transmitter. The most prevalent cause of this condition is a poorly installed coax connector at either end of the comm antenna feeder but especially the transceiver end. Check this connector to make sure the shield ground integrity is good. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: radio interference?
At 03:10 PM 10/29/2012, you wrote: At Ryan field yesterday a fellow I know who has done an incredible job building a perfect Hatz bi-plane asked me for help with a very odd radio problem. He has about 10 flights on it so far. His brand new ICOM radio produces only very soft, badly garbled reception when his engine (Lyc. O-290) is running. He can't talk to the tower when he's on-airport without stopping the engine. The really odd part is that the same is true if he uses a hand-held radio. (The ICOM has been benched checked by an official shop and looks fine.) His belly mounted antenna was obviously poor since it had a 90 deg. bend it it about 2 inches after it emerges from the plane. It has what looks like a good ground plane. He's switching to a plain, straight whip antenna for next flight. But I doubt it will work any better given the performance of the hand-held. I agree. Pretzel shaped antennas may not perform as well as the idealized configurations . . . but gross performance is not likely to be the root cause of a noise/interference issue in the radio. Is the hand-held on a rubber-duck when these experiments are tried or is it plugged into ship's antenna? He was also going to fly it once with the magnetos shorted at the magneto (so the wires going from the mag to the switch will be disconnected, thinking they may be radiating somehow). Good experiment . . . but the flavor of noise emitted by magneto p-lead circuits is of the short duration, repetitive 'spark plug' variety. The phenomenon you describe sounds more like the effects of a smoother, more contiguous stress. Noise? Are these radios being tested with a common mic/head-set? If so, try another mic/head-set. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
At 02:31 PM 10/29/2012, you wrote: > >As I mentioned earlier, I have had my fair share of electrical >issues. It appears that this noise is the result of or partially >caused by low voltage directly related to another electrical problem. > >The original builder wired in a hotbox. In the hotbox instructions >it says to run the two AC lines from the alternator to the hotbox. >Apparently some of the Hotboxes had the regulator attached to them >and jumpers are need to connect to the regulator. In my case, the >regulator is on the firewall. The original builder split the the two >AC lines with a crimp connector. He had two AC lines going to the >hotbox which were not needed and then had two going to the the >regulator with the 12 volt DC line output going to the charging >circuit. I discovered that these crimp connectors had bad >connections causing resistance and ultimately melted the AC wires >together essentially shorting out the AC current. That caused the >battery to not charge and caused low voltage. I eliminated the split >and ran the AC lines directly to the regulator, crimped and soldered >all the connections and the alternator is now charging the battery. >I charged the battery with a good battery charger and flew >yesterday. It appears that the noise is either gone or lessened to >the point that I cannot hear over the engine. So I guess that low >voltage was the main culprit with the melted wires causing the low >voltage situation by not charging the battery. Thanks for all the >thoughts and advice on this. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386225#386225 > > >----- >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: turn coordinator causing noise in headset
At 02:31 PM 10/29/2012, you wrote: As I mentioned earlier, I have had my fair share of electrical issues. It appears that this noise is the result of or partially caused by low voltage directly related to another electrical problem. The original builder wired in a hotbox. In the hotbox instructions it says to run the two AC lines from the alternator to the hotbox. Apparently some of the Hotboxes had the regulator attached to them and jumpers are need to connect to the regulator. In my case, the regulator is on the firewall. The original builder split the the two AC lines with a crimp connector. He had two AC lines going to the hotbox which were not needed and then had two going to the the regulator with the 12 volt DC line output going to the charging circuit. I discovered that these crimp connectors had bad connections causing resistance and ultimately melted the AC wires together essentially shorting out the AC current. That caused the battery to not charge and caused low voltage. I eliminated the split and ran the AC lines directly to the regulator, crimped and soldered all the connections and the alternator is now charging the battery. I charged the battery with a good battery charger and flew yesterday. It appears that the noise is either gone or lessened to the point that I cannot hear over the engine. So I guess that low voltage was the main culprit with the melted wires causing the low voltage situation by not charging the battery. Thanks for all the thoughts and advice on this. An interesting narrative! My writings and the seminars try to emphasize that a part NOT installed on the airplane is incapable of being a performance/ maintenance issue later. Keeping the parts count down not only reduces the cost of acquisition and installation, it reduces the future costs of ownership too. Pre-assembled products like the hot-box, exp-bus, and even Greg Richter's "solid-state breaker board" may blow warm fuzzy siren songs in the builder's ear . . . while in fact the builder is trading in his own understanding and system reliability for the convenience of somebody else's plug-n-play understanding. After more than 30 years observation and participation in this industry, I have yet to see an off-the-shelf assembly of electro-whizzies that competes in $value$ for a handful of breakers/fuses, switches and a couple of contactors. Sometimes the best way to drive a nail is with a hammer. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2012
Subject: Re: radio interference?
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Bob: I'll have to check for sure, but I think the hand held was on its own antenna and not connected into the plane's antenna. Switching headsets is a good suggestion. I'll tell him about that. I agree that his description of the noise doesn't sound like ignition noise. It's like another radio is is squashing the signal somehow. I can't figure how the ICOM could do that to itself and still check out on the bench, though. Weird. Thanks for the suggestions. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Open Source Avionics
From: "gregmchugh" <gregmchugh(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 30, 2012
Open Source Avionics, something we have discussed on the list is also happening over at MakerPlane as part of their open source aircraft work... http://makerplane.org/?p=1050 Greg McHugh Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386301#386301 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org>
Date: Oct 30, 2012
Subject: Re: B&C alternator diagnosis
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 6:11 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> The positive output >> goes via a 14 AWG wire to a 10-amp CB on the instrument panel and from >> there to the positive battery terminal (battery in the nose of the >> canard-pusher airplane). > > Does your airplane have a starter? If so, where > is the starter contactor located? > No starter. > >> The negative output goes to a general ground >> terminal on the engine mount frame and from there via a similar 14 AWG >> wire to the negative battery terminal. > > > Hmmmm . . . I deduce that there is no starter > and the 14AWG ground is the only conductor between > the crankcase and the battery(-)? Yes, except there are probably some other (skinnier) ground paths due to engine sensors and the electronic ignition. The main ground conductor might be 12 AWG rather than 14, I'll check tomorrow. >> The instrument power bus is >> connected to the battery terminals by another set of wires, and >> there's a third set for the electronic ignition. > > > Hmmmm . . . battery terminal used as a power distribution > point. Is there a battery switch? There's a switch labeled "battery" that supplies the instrument bus (with individual CBs after that for each instrument). Is this arrangement a bad idea? > >> Any reason not to tune the regulator voltage setpoint on the bench >> with a constant-current bench supply on the blue wires and my airplane >> battery on the red+black? > > > Yes, this is a crude form of switchmode regulator. > Not of the inductor-stored energy variety, but a > duty cycle switched series regulator with SCR's > that get triggered in a variable position along > each half-cycle of the incoming waveform. > > It must be adjusted under operating conditions that > mimic the as-installed condition on the airplane. > Here's a schematic of an exemplar rectifier/regulator > for a PM alternator: > > http://tinyurl.com/94585zs Makes sense, thanks! > > When we crafted installation instructions for that > regulator/alternator combination on a no-starter > airplane years ago, I brought ac power to the > battery area on a twisted pair. The R-R was mounted > close to the battery so that series resistance in the > sense-lines shared with power-delivery lines did > not become significant impedances in the control > loop. Interesting. It's great to get insight from the designer. > > Later drawings published by B&C dropped that > configuration. That's been so long ago that I > don't recall if I had any conversation with them > about the change. I cannot prove that the old > configuration was demonstrably 'better' but it > was crafted with consideration for deleterious > effects of unnecessary resistance in sense > feeders shared with power feeders. > > Don't know if it's an option for you but you > might consider using the 14AWG pair coming > forward as AC power feeders and move the R-R > to the forward space shared with the battery. > I'll look into it - I agree that sounds like a better arrangement feedback-wise, but I don't think the existing wire run I have is a twisted pair, so I'd be a bit concerned about EMI emissions from that long of a run of chopped AC. I'll see how much trouble a new wire run would be. If I had the time it could be a fun project to design my own switching regulator with separate sense lines... for that matter, do you know why these brushless alternator designs didn't use three phases like a modern BLDC motor? Thanks again Henry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Preventing RF Noise Pollution
Date: Oct 30, 2012
All, I want to put a device which contains a micro-controller clocked @ 1 MHz in my RV-7. I want it to be a good electronic citizen in the electromagnetic village of my electrical system. (I don't want it to annoy its neighbors) I'm looking for guidelines on how to prevent the device from introducing noise back thru its power feed line. Can I put a filter on the circuit board on the incoming power line? There is a 5v regulator - are those devices noisy? In an effort to reduce radiated noise, it is enclosed in an aluminum box that seals well. There is also control wiring that must travel thru the airframe. Should those wires have some kind of filtering on them as well? Some of the external wires are sensing remote analog voltages. Do they need protection also? TIA, Jeff Luckey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org>
Date: Oct 30, 2012
Subject: Re: Open Source Avionics
Nice! The way they fit most of the projects in D-sub housings is a neat idea. If anyone is interested in a DIY 2-place intercom, I posted my CAD files here: https://github.com/henryhallam/intercom It's based closely on a design released by Dave Allen in 1997, but uses surface-mount parts (still easily hand-solderable) and includes USB power outlets. I plan to add a bluetooth interface for a cell phone or music and I'll update the git when I do that. Henry On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:17 AM, gregmchugh wrote: > > Open Source Avionics, something we have discussed on the list is also happening over at MakerPlane as part of their open source aircraft work... > > http://makerplane.org/?p=1050 > > Greg McHugh > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386301#386301 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: B&C alternator diagnosis
> >I'll look into it - I agree that sounds like a better arrangement >feedback-wise, but I don't think the existing wire run I have is a >twisted pair, so I'd be a bit concerned about EMI emissions from that >long of a run of chopped AC. I've not had an opportunity to run a PM alternator in the lab . . . so the twisted pair was simple a prophylactic derived from common sense. In any case, I doubt that EMI products go very high in frequency. Given that ADF is gone (taking am radio with it), the probability for real interference is small. It would be a relatively easy experiment. See if you can use the existing 14AWG pair as an AC power feeder and then fly it. > I'll see how much trouble a new wire run would be. Many moons ago, I was able to use an existing wire as a pull-tape to run in a new instrumentation wire . . . a shielded trio. The bundles between firewall and the nose section were not tightly tied. You might see if tugging on the 14AWG produces any significant motion at non-scary forces. > If I had the time it could be a fun project to design my >own switching regulator with separate sense lines... Yeah, I have such a design somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it out. The design is a buck-regulator scaled to run off the un-regulated, full wave rectified DC out of the alternator. I looked at that product about 20 years ago but some new kids on the block might re-open the door. Consider this: A full wave rectifier on the firewall and local capacitor would get you unregulated, HV dc. I don't recall now what the open circuit AC votlage is for your alternator at cruise . . . you might get a measurement at some known ramp RPM from which we can extrapolate the higher rpm value. Use a rectifier and filter capacitor with a light load, say 100 ohms across it. Measure the resulting DC at some handy RPM. If max DC is below 28, then this regulator might have promise: http://tinyurl.com/8fm6reh Given that you do not have a starter, there may not be a good reason to keep a battery on board . . . or the battery could be scaled down to deal with only with taxi rpm situations. These regulators provide constant, clean output as long as the input is high enough. You might even consider two regulators. They're light and smaller than a battery. One could be a standby. It's exceedingly unlikely that you would ever loose the alternator. Food for thought. for that matter, >do you know why these brushless alternator designs didn't use three >phases like a modern BLDC motor? You could do that . . . here's an interesting motor Emacs! Emacs! BEMF of 6v/krpm says you'll get about 24 volts at 4000 pad drive speeds. The winding resistances are low. It seems that you would get 10A plus out of this motor back-driven as a PM, 3-phase alternator. It would cost you about $200 to put your hands on one to play with. http://tinyurl.com/95jny8c Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Preventing RF Noise Pollution
At 01:36 PM 10/30/2012, you wrote: All, I want to put a device which contains a micro-controller clocked @ 1 MHz in my RV-7. I want it to be a good electronic citizen in the electromagnetic village of my electrical system. (I don't want it to annoy its neighbors) I'm looking for guidelines on how to prevent the device from introducing noise back thru its power feed line. Can I put a filter on the circuit board on the incoming power line? There is a 5v regulator - are those devices noisy? In an effort to reduce radiated noise, it is enclosed in an aluminum box that seals well. #1 rule, make the board layout tight. Make use of a ground plane if you can. Self contained uC devices have VERY tiny radiation apertures and few external leads (oscillator) that carry fast rise, potentially antagonistic signals. There is also control wiring that must travel thru the airframe. Should those wires have some kind of filtering on them as well? Some of the external wires are sensing remote analog voltages. Do they need protection also? Generally not for RF. Your control and analog lines will generally benefit from some form of level shifting and/or filtering for input transient immunity . . . this same network wipes out the RF issues too. Power inputs for small circuits are also benign. You'll no doubt be using a linear regulator which, along with it's standard line capacitors, is a strong attenuator of RF. Small devices like this are seldom an radiated or conducted EMI concern. Your biggest integration concerns are for protecing the uC from outside stresses (Mil-Std-704 DC power and static discharges for handling). Send me a copy of your schematic and I'll suggest i/o conditioning networks. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
Subject: Re: Open Source Avionics
Date: Oct 30, 2012
Henry, if you are interested in posting the intercom into the public domain, MakerPlane is the place to do it. We'd like it if you could submit the info. If you want, I can prepare the files for you and then send them to John Nicol at MakerPlane. Thanks, Vern Little Vx Aviation -----Original Message----- From: Henry Hallam Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 10:56 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Open Source Avionics Nice! The way they fit most of the projects in D-sub housings is a neat idea. If anyone is interested in a DIY 2-place intercom, I posted my CAD files here: https://github.com/henryhallam/intercom It's based closely on a design released by Dave Allen in 1997, but uses surface-mount parts (still easily hand-solderable) and includes USB power outlets. I plan to add a bluetooth interface for a cell phone or music and I'll update the git when I do that. Henry On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:17 AM, gregmchugh wrote: > > Open Source Avionics, something we have discussed on the list is also > happening over at MakerPlane as part of their open source aircraft work... > > http://makerplane.org/?p=1050 > > Greg McHugh > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386301#386301 > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DVS" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com>
Subject: B&C alternator diagnosis
Date: Oct 30, 2012
Bob, This is fairly common in the RC industry. See http://mysite.verizon.net/vze49gsg Raja may be interested in building the rectifiers. From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:27 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C alternator diagnosis I'll look into it - I agree that sounds like a better arrangement feedback-wise, but I don't think the existing wire run I have is a twisted pair, so I'd be a bit concerned about EMI emissions from that long of a run of chopped AC. I've not had an opportunity to run a PM alternator in the lab . . . so the twisted pair was simple a prophylactic derived from common sense. In any case, I doubt that EMI products go very high in frequency. Given that ADF is gone (taking am radio with it), the probability for real interference is small. It would be a relatively easy experiment. See if you can use the existing 14AWG pair as an AC power feeder and then fly it. I'll see how much trouble a new wire run would be. Many moons ago, I was able to use an existing wire as a pull-tape to run in a new instrumentation wire . . . a shielded trio. The bundles between firewall and the nose section were not tightly tied. You might see if tugging on the 14AWG produces any significant motion at non-scary forces. If I had the time it could be a fun project to design my own switching regulator with separate sense lines... Yeah, I have such a design somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it out. The design is a buck-regulator scaled to run off the un-regulated, full wave rectified DC out of the alternator. I looked at that product about 20 years ago but some new kids on the block might re-open the door. Consider this: A full wave rectifier on the firewall and local capacitor would get you unregulated, HV dc. I don't recall now what the open circuit AC votlage is for your alternator at cruise . . . you might get a measurement at some known ramp RPM from which we can extrapolate the higher rpm value. Use a rectifier and filter capacitor with a light load, say 100 ohms across it. Measure the resulting DC at some handy RPM. If max DC is below 28, then this regulator might have promise: http://tinyurl.com/8fm6reh Given that you do not have a starter, there may not be a good reason to keep a battery on board . . . or the battery could be scaled down to deal with only with taxi rpm situations. These regulators provide constant, clean output as long as the input is high enough. You might even consider two regulators. They're light and smaller than a battery. One could be a standby. It's exceedingly unlikely that you would ever loose the alternator. Food for thought. for that matter, do you know why these brushless alternator designs didn't use three phases like a modern BLDC motor? You could do that . . . here's an interesting motor Emacs! Emacs! BEMF of 6v/krpm says you'll get about 24 volts at 4000 pad drive speeds. The winding resistances are low. It seems that you would get 10A plus out of this motor back-driven as a PM, 3-phase alternator. It would cost you about $200 to put your hands on one to play with. http://tinyurl.com/95jny8c Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity
Date: Oct 30, 2012
Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery. Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace the battery after two years of service. I had however, heard many great things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend another $150 for a new one. Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it run for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4 year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously). I was curious how much capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store and had them load test it. Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Going on 5 fun filled years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2012
From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery Longevity
Great story, Dean! -Looks like your PC680 is cost effective. I have Odysseys in my airplane and all of my automobiles (6). -This "expe riment started about 3.5 years ago, and I had one poop out at 3 years exact ly. The rest are still cranking engines and tunes. As part of your longevity experiment, why not take it out after 2, 3, 4 ... years and have its capacity tested? -An interesting observation about my Odyssey failure was that it wasn't catastrophic; instead, it declined stea dily. At first I thought it was the fuel system causing delayed starting, b ut I had its capacity tested and found it at 70% capacity. Replacement solv ed all problems. Henador Titzoff --- On Tue, 10/30/12, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote : From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Longevity Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012, 7:42 PM os(at)verizon.net> Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A.- When I built the airplane I installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery. Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace the battery after two years of service.- I had however, heard many great things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend anothe r $150 for a new one.- Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it r un for one more year.- This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it was performing so, I bought a new- one and installed it (even though the 4 year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously).- I was curious how m uch capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store an d had them load test it.- Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of its 220 CCA rated capacity.- That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it!- Awesome battery, I think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs.- Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Going on 5 fun filled years le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ron Burnett <ronburnett(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery Longevity
Date: Oct 31, 2012
Go to Wholesale Battery for best prices on Odessey, at least here in MO. Ron Burnett N524RB Subaru powered RV-6A Sent from my iPad May you have the blessings of the Lord today. On Oct 31, 2012, at 4:47 AM, Henador Titzoff wro te: > > Great story, Dean! Looks like your PC680 is cost effective. > > I have Odysseys in my airplane and all of my automobiles (6). This "exper iment started about 3.5 years ago, and I had one poop out at 3 years exactly . The rest are still cranking engines and tunes. > > As part of your longevity experiment, why not take it out after 2, 3, 4 .. . years and have its capacity tested? An interesting observation about my O dyssey failure was that it wasn't catastrophic; instead, it declined steadil y. At first I thought it was the fuel system causing delayed starting, but I had its capacity tested and found it at 70% capacity. Replacement solved al l problems. > > Henador Titzoff > > --- On Tue, 10/30/12, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrot e: > > From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Longevity > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012, 7:42 PM > los(at)verizon.net> > > Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I > installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery. > Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace > the battery after two years of service. I had however, heard many great > things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second > annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend anoth er > $150 for a new one. Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it ru n > for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how i t > was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4 > year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously). I was curious how mu ch > capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store a nd > had them load test it. Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of > its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining > after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of > service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a > whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I > think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Going on 5 fun filled ?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Ae - MATRONICS WEBcom" bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co m/contribution > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 31, 2012
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery Longevity
Good Morning Dean and Henador, I wonder what type of capacity check was performed by the facility Dean used? When I asked my automobile service facility to run a capacity check, they told me they could do it in less than five minutes. According to the directions on my capacity checker, it takes several hours! First, the battery must be checked to assure it is fully charged, then it needs to be discharged at an accurately controlled rate as specified by the manufacturer. Was that protocol followed by the automotive testing facility? I too have had good luck with a couple of Odyssey batteries I bought, but I do not have any confidence at all in a capacity check such as used at the local battery shop. Just wonderin'? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 10/31/2012 4:49:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com writes: Great story, Dean! Looks like your PC680 is cost effective. I have Odysseys in my airplane and all of my automobiles (6). This "experiment started about 3.5 years ago, and I had one poop out at 3 years exactly. The rest are still cranking engines and tunes. As part of your longevity experiment, why not take it out after 2, 3, 4 ... years and have its capacity tested? An interesting observation about my Odyssey failure was that it wasn't catastrophic; instead, it declined steadily. At first I thought it was the fuel system causing delayed starting, but I had its capacity tested and found it at 70% capacity. Replacement solved all problems. Henador Titzoff --- On Tue, 10/30/12, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Longevity Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012, 7:42 PM <_dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net_ (mip://121999c0/mc/compose?to=dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net) > Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery. Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace the battery after two years of service. I had however, heard many great things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend another $150 for a new one. Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it run for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4 year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously). I was curious how much capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store and had them load test it. Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Going on 5 fun filled ?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Ae - MATRONICS WEBcom" bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery Longevity
At 04:47 AM 10/31/2012, you wrote: >Great story, Dean! Looks like your PC680 is cost effective. > >I have Odysseys in my airplane and all of my automobiles (6). This >"experiment started about 3.5 years ago, and I had one poop out at 3 >years exactly. The rest are still cranking engines and tunes. > >As part of your longevity experiment, why not take it out after 2, >3, 4 ... years and have its capacity tested? An interesting >observation about my Odyssey failure was that it wasn't >catastrophic; instead, it declined steadily. At first I thought it >was the fuel system causing delayed starting, but I had its capacity >tested and found it at 70% capacity. Replacement solved all problems. >Henador Titzoff YES! You got a gold star! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery Longevity
At 08:05 AM 10/31/2012, you wrote: Good Morning Dean and Henador, I wonder what type of capacity check was performed by the facility Dean used? When I asked my automobile service facility to run a capacity check, they told me they could do it in less than five minutes. According to the directions on my capacity checker, it takes several hours! First, the battery must be checked to assure it is fully charged, then it needs to be discharged at an accurately controlled rate as specified by the manufacturer. Was that protocol followed by the automotive testing facility? I too have had good luck with a couple of Odyssey batteries I bought, but I do not have any confidence at all in a capacity check such as used at the local battery shop. Just wonderin'? A worthy question sir . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: B&C alternator diagnosis
At 07:14 PM 10/30/2012, you wrote: >Bob, >This is fairly common in the RC industry. >See <http://mysite.verizon.net/vze49gsg>http://mysite.verizon.net/vze49gsg >Raja may be interested in building the rectifiers. > Yeah, those little RC BLDC motors are amazing products. I've got a couple here that have been played with a bit. A few years ago, I was asked to proposed a table-top demonstrator for quantifying both brushed and brushless DC motor performance. Never got a response back on my proposal. But it was an opportunity to sample what was out there. I've considered studying their application in a wind-driven power source for ultra-lights and antiques. But that's a project WAAAAaaayyy back on the burners! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Preventing RF Noise Pollution
Date: Oct 31, 2012
Bob, Thanks for the pointers. When I get closer to PCB fabrication, I may take you up on your generous offer. -Jeff -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 13:35 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Preventing RF Noise Pollution At 01:36 PM 10/30/2012, you wrote: All, I want to put a device which contains a micro-controller clocked @ 1 MHz in my RV-7. I want it to be a good electronic citizen in the electromagnetic village of my electrical system. (I don't want it to annoy its neighbors) I'm looking for guidelines on how to prevent the device from introducing noise back thru its power feed line. Can I put a filter on the circuit board on the incoming power line? There is a 5v regulator - are those devices noisy? In an effort to reduce radiated noise, it is enclosed in an aluminum box that seals well. #1 rule, make the board layout tight. Make use of a ground plane if you can. Self contained uC devices have VERY tiny radiation apertures and few external leads (oscillator) that carry fast rise, potentially antagonistic signals. There is also control wiring that must travel thru the airframe. Should those wires have some kind of filtering on them as well? Some of the external wires are sensing remote analog voltages. Do they need protection also? Generally not for RF. Your control and analog lines will generally benefit from some form of level shifting and/or filtering for input transient immunity . . . this same network wipes out the RF issues too. Power inputs for small circuits are also benign. You'll no doubt be using a linear regulator which, along with it's standard line capacitors, is a strong attenuator of RF. Small devices like this are seldom an radiated or conducted EMI concern. Your biggest integration concerns are for protecing the uC from outside stresses (Mil-Std-704 DC power and static discharges for handling). Send me a copy of your schematic and I'll suggest i/o conditioning networks. Bob . . . ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery Longevity
At 09:42 PM 10/30/2012, you wrote: > > >Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I >installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery. >Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace >the battery after two years of service. Allow me to clarify the 'philosophy'. A design goal for battery management is to maintain a high level of CONFIDENCE in the battery's ability to perform intended tasks of (1) getting the engine started and more important (2) support alternator-out operations to some bench-mark established by the builder/pilot. That bench mark MAY be the legacy 30-minutes duration embraced by the TC aircraft world or duration0-of-fuel-aboard encouraged by this author. That standard is achieved by either periodic testing of battery capacity under loads similar to those expected in the airplane . . . or simple change out at intervals pretty much guaranteed to maintain system integrity for battery-only ops. This is a judgement call. Cost of ownership must include the labor and equipment necessary for periodic testing. A $150 battery rotated out of the airplane costs $75/year. If 30 minute expenditures of test time, say 4x times over the next two years forestalls a change-out, then battery costs are now $37/year + two hours + depreciation of test equipment. If the airplane is fitted with two alternators, then rational design goals might call for leaving a battery in place until it no longer cranks the engine. I.e. it's never expected to perform as a standby source of energy. It's up to the builder to decide where the economics of a particular philosophy drive the decision to replace the battery. > I had however, heard many great >things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second >annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend another >$150 for a new one. On what basis did you assess perfection? What are the design goals for this battery's utilization in your airplane? > Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it run >for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it >was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4 >year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously). . . . a prima facie demonstration of performance under cranking loads. >I was curious how much >capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store and >had them load test it. A load test is not a capacity test. Automotive batteries are only expected to crank engines. Gross capacity is seldom an automotive issue and is never tested. Now, if the battery is used in an RV to run lights and refrigerators, that becomes a capacity issue for battery that is expected to perform under deep cycle service. > Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of >its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining >after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of >service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a >whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I >think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs. I have instrumentation batteries that are over 10 years old and still test at better than 75% of new CAPACITY. They load test well too . . . well over 200 amps for 15 seconds at or above 9 volts. They have been well cared for, seldom deep cycled, and could be dropped into one of my vehicles for a last gasp at utilitarian service. I'm not surprised at your experience in that climate. I suspect as a devotee of the AeroElectric-List, your situational awareness of electrical system performance is well above that of the majority of GA pilots. Folks who understand, observe and react to slips in system performance will enjoy exemplary service from their electro-whizzies. Let us take care not to forget the differences between cranking loads and standby capacity. We're also encouraged to be mindful of the gross differences in individual requirements for battery performance driven by overall system configuration and pilot expectations for how the airplane is used. The Odyssey is a quality product. I've visited their factory in Mexico, MO and I was cognizant of Enersys battery performance in our HBC products. With the right combination of preventative maintenance, this batter (and no doubt others) will deliver good value for their cost of acquisition and operation. Thanks for sharing your experience with us! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: B&C alternator diagnosis
From: "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com>
Date: Oct 31, 2012
> do you know why these brushless alternator designs didn't use three > phases like a modern BLDC motor? This is pure speculation on my part; so correct me if wrong. If the coils of a single phase alternator were rewired to make a 3 phase alternator, then voltage output would be only 1/3 of the single phase voltage. In order for a 3 phase alternator to have the same voltage output as a single phase alternator, it would have to have two more windings of the same size. Then it would weigh more and cost more. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386386#386386 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org>
Subject: More than you ever wanted to know about Li-on batteries
Date: Oct 31, 2012
http://powerelectronics.com/portable_power_management/battery_charger_ics/pr oper_care_extends-li-ion-battery-0425/ -john- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org>
Subject: More than you ever wanted to know about Li-on batteries
Date: Oct 31, 2012
http://tinyurl.com/6ca4c7 (there! that's better!) -john- > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of John Loram > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:14 AM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: More than you ever wanted to know > about Li-on batteries > > > > http://powerelectronics.com/portable_power_management/battery_ > charger_ics/pr > oper_care_extends-li-ion-battery-0425/ > > -john- > > > Photoshare, and much much more: > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: B&C alternator diagnosis
At 01:02 PM 10/31/2012, you wrote: > do you know why these brushless alternator designs didn't use three > phases like a modern BLDC motor? This is pure speculation on my part; so correct me if wrong. If the coils of a single phase alternator were rewired to make a 3 phase alternator, then voltage output would be only 1/3 of the single phase voltage. In order for a 3 phase alternator to have the same voltage output as a single phase alternator, it would have to have two more windings of the same size. Then it would weigh more and cost more. Joe -------- Joe Gores The power output from an AC device is roughly proportional to the weight of the active magnetic material (core), magnetic strength and speed (rpm). I'm recalling from memory now but back when I was winding my own transformers, a 1 pound core was good for about 60 watts at 60 Hz. The same weight of core in a 400 Hz system was good for 6.5 times that power . . . 400 watts. This assumes similar levels of magnetic flux that can be carried in the core without saturation or increases losses at higher frequencies. An automotive alternator is already crafted as a 3-phase device. The configuration requires that pole-pairs on the rotating magnet come in some multiple of 3 (usually 6 pairs but can be more on larger machines). The output voltage of any given widing is proportional to speed x flux value x number of turns. When you 'rewind' to get more voltage, it generally has to be done with smaller wire . . . the winding window in the core is fixed. The practical power output is not a linear function because of heating effects of I-squared x R in the wires and the windings ability to reject heat into the core and end turns. There's not a great deal to be gained in power by going from single to three-phase . . . it's that weight,flux,speed thing. The BIG toe-stubber is pole piece configuration. The magnets glued to the inside of the popular PM alternator shells (or wound-field machines) are already optimized for their as- manufactured condition. It takes more than a 'rewinding' to morph from single to 3-phase configuration. But assuming all other things are held the same, the watts-per-pound-per- velocity will be the same for both configurations. The BIG advantage of 3-phase is the smoother output with simple full-wave rectification . . . about 5% ripple as compared to 100% ripple for single-phase. But if the designer sets out to do a clean piece of paper, 3-phase design it will be only moderately more expensive. The power can be a little better because the windings share duties . . . i.e. there is never a time when current goes to zero in more than one winding. Bob . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: single vs. 3-phase alternators (forgot the picture!)
At 01:02 PM 10/31/2012, you wrote: > do you know why these brushless alternator designs didn't use three > phases like a modern BLDC motor? This is pure speculation on my part; so correct me if wrong. If the coils of a single phase alternator were rewired to make a 3 phase alternator, then voltage output would be only 1/3 of the single phase voltage. In order for a 3 phase alternator to have the same voltage output as a single phase alternator, it would have to have two more windings of the same size. Then it would weigh more and cost more. Joe -------- Joe Gores The power output from an AC device is roughly proportional to the weight of the active magnetic material (core), magnetic strength and speed (rpm). I'm recalling from memory now but back when I was winding my own transformers, a 1 pound core was good for about 60 watts at 60 Hz. The same weight of core in a 400 Hz system was good for 6.5 times that power . . . 400 watts. This assumes similar levels of magnetic flux that can be carried in the core without saturation or increases losses at higher frequencies. An automotive alternator is already crafted as a 3-phase device. The configuration requires that pole-pairs on the rotating magnet come in some multiple of 3 (usually 6 pairs but can be more on larger machines). Emacs! The output voltage of any given winding is proportional to speed x flux value x number of turns. When you 'rewind' to get more voltage, it generally has to be done with smaller wire . . . the winding window in the core is fixed. The practical power output is not a linear function because of heating effects of I-squared x R in the wires and the windings ability to reject heat into the core and end turns. There's not a great deal to be gained in power by going from single to three-phase . . . it's that weight,flux,speed thing. The BIG toe-stubber is pole piece configuration. The magnets glued to the inside of the popular PM alternator shells (or wound-field machines) are already optimized for their as- manufactured condition. It takes more than a 'rewinding' to morph from single to 3-phase configuration. But assuming all other things are held the same, the watts-per-pound-per- velocity will be the same for both configurations. The BIG advantage of 3-phase is the smoother output with simple full-wave rectification . . . about 5% ripple as compared to 100% ripple for single-phase. But if the designer sets out to do a clean piece of paper, 3-phase design it will be only moderately more expensive. The power can be a little better because the windings share duties . . . i.e. there is never a time when current goes to zero in more than one winding. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: single vs. 3-phase alternators (forgot the picture!)
From: James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 31, 2012
Hi Bob Is the small Walmart battery tender a good deal. It is quite a bit less exp ensive than the battery tender brand, Your opinion? Jim Robinson Sent from my iPad On Oct 31, 2012, at 3:11 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroele ctric.com> wrote: > At 01:02 PM 10/31/2012, you wrote: > > > > > do you know why these brushless alternator designs didn't use three > > phases like a modern BLDC motor? > > This is pure speculation on my part; so correct me if wrong. > If the coils of a single phase alternator were rewired to make a 3 phase a lternator, then voltage output would be only 1/3 of the single phase voltage . In order for a 3 phase alternator to have the same voltage output as a si ngle phase alternator, it would have to have two more windings of the same s ize. Then it would weigh more and cost more. > Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > The power output from an AC device is roughly proportional > to the weight of the active magnetic material (core), magnetic > strength and speed (rpm). I'm recalling from memory now but > back when I was winding my own transformers, a 1 pound core > was good for about 60 watts at 60 Hz. The same weight of core > in a 400 Hz system was good for 6.5 times that power . . . > 400 watts. This assumes similar levels of magnetic flux > that can be carried in the core without saturation or > increases losses at higher frequencies. > > An automotive alternator is already crafted as a 3-phase > device. The configuration requires that pole-pairs on the > rotating magnet come in some multiple of 3 (usually > 6 pairs but can be more on larger machines). > > <1ddd5eb8.jpg> > > > The output voltage of any given winding is proportional > to speed x flux value x number of turns. When you 'rewind' > to get more voltage, it generally has to be done with > smaller wire . . . the winding window in the core is fixed. > > The practical power output is not a linear function because > of heating effects of I-squared x R in the wires and the > windings ability to reject heat into the core and end turns. > There's not a great deal to be gained in power by going from > single to three-phase . . . it's that weight,flux,speed thing. > > The BIG toe-stubber is pole piece configuration. The magnets > glued to the inside of the popular PM alternator shells (or > wound-field machines) are already optimized for their as- > manufactured condition. It takes more than a 'rewinding' > to morph from single to 3-phase configuration. But assuming > all other things are held the same, the watts-per-pound-per- > velocity will be the same for both configurations. > > The BIG advantage of 3-phase is the smoother output with > simple full-wave rectification . . . about 5% ripple as > compared to 100% ripple for single-phase. But if the designer > sets out to do a clean piece of paper, 3-phase design it > will be only moderately more expensive. The power can be > a little better because the windings share duties . . . i.e. > there is never a time when current goes to zero in more than > one winding. > > Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero>
Subject: single vs. 3-phase alternators (forgot the picture!)
Date: Oct 31, 2012
SmltIOKAkw0KV2FsLU1hcnQgc2VsbHMgU2NodW1hY2hlci1icmFuZCwgYW1vbmcgb3RoZXJzLiAg VGhlIFNjaHVtYWNoZXIgbW9kZWwgMTU2MkEgc2VsbHMgZm9yIGFib3V0ICQyMCBhbmQgaGFzIHBy b3ZlbiB0byBiZSBhIGdvb2QgdmFsdWUuDQoNCm5lYWwNCj09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpIaSBCb2IN CklzIHRoZSBzbWFsbCBXYWxtYXJ0IGJhdHRlcnkgdGVuZGVyIGEgZ29vZCBkZWFsLiAgSXQgaXMg cXVpdGUgYSBiaXQgbGVzcyBleHBlbnNpdmUgdGhhbiB0aGUgYmF0dGVyeSB0ZW5kZXIgYnJhbmQs ICAgWW91ciBvcGluaW9uPw0KSmltIFJvYmluc29uDQoNCgoK ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: vhf transponder interference
From: "jappie" <jappie(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Oct 31, 2012
thank you Bob I've also found on "Google" that I should have a Notch filter installed, as per Garmin, which I don't have.... I bought the plane 9 years ago as is.... I will check the coax cable during winter maintenance. JP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386403#386403 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During
November! Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's through solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts! Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include: Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com These are very generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: vhf transponder interference
At 04:52 PM 10/31/2012, you wrote: > >thank you Bob > >I've also found on "Google" that I should have a Notch filter >installed, as per Garmin, which I don't have.... > >I bought the plane 9 years ago as is.... > >I will check the coax cable during winter maintenance. > >JP > Can you point me to the website that recommends/offers this 'notch filter'? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Bench power supply
Still digging through moving boxes . . . Ran across a power supply I bought a few years ago for a client project. This was a second supply kept on hand as a spare. http://tinyurl.com/abhch37 This critter is still in the original plastic bag. That project has long since been put to bed so I'm offering it first to List members for $100 priority mail postage paid to US address. If nobody wants it, I'll put it up on eBay in a week or so . . . earliest 'postmark' takes it. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bench power supply
From: Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 01, 2012
That would be great for my lab. Does it do 10A all the way to 30V? --Daniel On Nov 1, 2012, at 2:37 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > Still digging through moving boxes . . . > > Ran across a power supply I bought a few years ago > for a client project. This was a second supply kept > on hand as a spare. > > http://tinyurl.com/abhch37 > > This critter is still in the original plastic bag. > > That project has long since been put to bed so I'm > offering it first to List members for $100 priority > mail postage paid to US address. > > If nobody wants it, I'll put it up on eBay in a week > or so . . . earliest 'postmark' takes it. > > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bench power supply
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Nov 01, 2012
Bob, I'll take it off your hands. Should I send a check? Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com On Nov 1, 2012, at 2:37 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: Still digging through moving boxes . . . Ran across a power supply I bought a few years ago for a client project. This was a second supply kept on hand as a spare. http://tinyurl.com/abhch37 This critter is still in the original plastic bag. That project has long since been put to bed so I'm offering it first to List members for $100 priority mail postage paid to US address. If nobody wants it, I'll put it up on eBay in a week or so . . . earliest 'postmark' takes it. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: vhf transponder interference
From: "jappie" <jappie(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Nov 01, 2012
This is a .pdf file: installation manual for Garmin 250 XL page 9 & 10 Notch filter required, but I understand that it if for GPS interference, not my problem, but still say I need it anyway. JP http://trackeraff.com/IAS/manuals/Garmin/GNC%20250/156_InstallationManual.pdf Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386519#386519 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Bench power supply
At 03:04 PM 11/1/2012, you wrote: > >Bob, > >I'll take it off your hands. Should I send a check? Thanks! I've sent you a PayPal invoice Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: vhf transponder interference
At 03:18 PM 11/1/2012, you wrote: > >This is a .pdf file: installation manual for Garmin 250 XL > >page 9 & 10 Notch filter required, but I understand that it if for >GPS interference, not my problem, but still say I need it anyway. > >JP Okay. The GPS signal radiated by satellites is VERY small. At the same time, your VHF transmitter is designed to transmit most strongly in the 118 to 135 range, a range that brackets 131.285. The 12th harmonic of this frequency falls on the GPS center frequency of 1.57542 Ghz. A check you can make first is to see how transmissions on frequence adjacent to the 'rosewood stake' affects GPS performance. Watch GPS signal strengths while keying the transmitter on say on all the notches between 131.2 and 131.35. See if the signal strengths degrade to causing the GPS to loose track. If so, try the VHF comm frequencies down to day 131 and up to 132 . . . how close CAN you be to the rosewood stake and not affect the GPS. Then count how many times you've used frequencies in that range and further, asses the risk to comfortable conduct of the flight if you DO happen to whack the GPS signal on occasion. I've flown a lot of GPS aided miles and never noticed a loss of nav data event. Even if it had occurred, I might not have noticed it. I think it's a good thing to be aware of . . . and watch for . . . but not sure it's worth the price of this notch filter. That assumes that it costs more than $0.50 and the top off a box of Wheaties. If you find that you don't have noteworthy interference, let us know what you find. I've been aware of the potential for this issue but I can't recall it rising up in conversations at HBC. Wayyyyy back when, we had some problems with signals radiated from the RECEIVER oscillators interfering with GPS. That required fabrication of a shield screen to stack between the two radios. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Walmart battery charger.
At 04:39 PM 10/31/2012, you wrote: >Hi Bob >Is the small Walmart battery tender a good deal. It is quite a bit >less expensive than the battery tender brand, Your opinion? >Jim Robinson As Neal notes, the one we've discussed her on the List (Schumacher 1562) is a great performer. I've got two of them. For $20 the value is inarguable. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Walmart battery charger.
From: James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 01, 2012
Thanks Bob Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2012, at 4:49 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > At 04:39 PM 10/31/2012, you wrote: >> Hi Bob >> Is the small Walmart battery tender a good deal. It is quite a bit less expensive than the battery tender brand, Your opinion? >> Jim Robinson > > > > As Neal notes, the one we've discussed her on the > List (Schumacher 1562) is a great performer. I've > got two of them. For $20 the value is inarguable. > > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2012
From: Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl>
Subject: 912iS paper
(copied from RotaxEngines list) Those interested in the design of the 912iS may want to buy SAE paper nr 2012-32-0049. By 3 Rotax engineers and recently presented at an SAE conference. It costs $23 and can only be printed, during 24 hours, not saved. Some of the figures need to be printed separately to make some very small print readable (primitive but working procedure: zoom to maximise on screen, copy screen to clipboard, paste into picture viewer like Irfanview, crop in picture viewer and print/save). I found it interesting. A lot of questions were answered, quite a few remain. Jan de Jong ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2012
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: Walmart battery charger.
Bob, I checked the local Walmart and they have the model Schumacher Model XM1-5 charger. It is advertised as a 6 and 12 volt 1.5 amp charger/maintainer. The 1562A looks like it has the same specs and is available to order on-line and pick up at the store. Any experience with the new model? I picked one up and put it on a 7 AH gell cell but don't get either a charging or charged LED. I'm not sure if I just have a bad one or if it doesn't have the same circuitry. The manual list "NR" for not recommended for batteries over 32 AH. I was planning to use it on the airplane and get one for a car. I can take this one back and order the 1562A. Any suggestions? Thanks, Darrel On 11/1/2012 2:49 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 04:39 PM 10/31/2012, you wrote: >> Hi Bob >> Is the small Walmart battery tender a good deal. It is quite a bit >> less expensive than the battery tender brand, Your opinion? >> Jim Robinson > > > As Neal notes, the one we've discussed her on the > List (Schumacher 1562) is a great performer. I've > got two of them. For $20 the value is inarguable. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2012
From: Emil Sr <papa11(at)centurylink.net>
Subject: Re: Walmart battery charger.
On 11/2/2012 4:52 PM, Darrel Jones wrote: > > Bob, > > I checked the local Walmart and they have the model Schumacher Model > XM1-5 charger. It is advertised as a 6 and 12 volt 1.5 amp > charger/maintainer. The 1562A looks like it has the same specs and is > available to order on-line and pick up at the store. Any experience > with the new model? I picked one up and put it on a 7 AH gell cell but > don't get either a charging or charged LED. I'm not sure if I just > have a bad one or if it doesn't have the same circuitry. The manual > list "NR" for not recommended for batteries over 32 AH. I was planning > to use it on the airplane and get one for a car. I can take this one > back and order the 1562A. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > Darrel > > > On 11/1/2012 2:49 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> >> At 04:39 PM 10/31/2012, you wrote: >>> Hi Bob >>> Is the small Walmart battery tender a good deal. It is quite a bit >>> less expensive than the battery tender brand, Your opinion? >>> Jim Robinson >> >> >> >> As Neal notes, the one we've discussed her on the >> List (Schumacher 1562) is a great performer. I've >> got two of them. For $20 the value is inarguable. >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > I have two of these units, one on the plane battery[Odyseey PC680] and > one on the house generator with a car battery keeps both fully charged > and goes to float when both batterys are fully charged. These > maintainers are great units and you will be happy with it ,be sure > that youre connections are correct and tight Emil > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Walmart battery charger.
At 03:52 PM 11/2/2012, you wrote: > >Bob, > >I checked the local Walmart and they have the model Schumacher Model >XM1-5 charger. It is advertised as a 6 and 12 volt 1.5 amp >charger/maintainer. The 1562A looks like it has the same specs and >is available to order on-line and pick up at the store. Any >experience with the new model? I picked one up and put it on a 7 AH >gell cell but don't get either a charging or charged LED. I'm not >sure if I just have a bad one or if it doesn't have the same >circuitry. The manual list "NR" for not recommended for batteries >over 32 AH. I was planning to use it on the airplane and get one for >a car. I can take this one back and order the 1562A. I wish I could offer some first hand info. I've seen that product on the shelves . . . and the 'specs' look good. But I've used the 1562 for years. Just did a site-to-store purchase of a new one a couple months ago. I performed as expected. As long as you're not in a hurry, the site-to- store thing is low risk. If you've got the time, I'd pay postage both ways to play with XM1-5 on the bench. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2012
From: Jeff Page <jpx(at)qenesis.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Walmart battery charger.
I bought the Schumacher SEM-1562A while at AirVenture this year. It was all that was available when I needed to recharge a battery I brought along from a UPS that I was using to recharge my iPad. Although the battery had previous abuse prior to AirVenture, I did expect it to perform adequately. I recharged it five or six times at AirVenture and each time, it seemed like it was not fully charged. When I got home, I determined that the battery was no longer able to hold a charge. Now that fall is here, I have some car-size batteries out of a couple of boats in my basement. They had already been fully charged and were on another maintainer, so are in good shape. Just for fun, I put the Schumacher on one of the batteries, expecting it to go to maintenance mode almost immediately. Instead, it began trying to recharge the battery, with 14.7 volts. It briefly went as high as 15.2 ! There was not a lot of current (maybe 150mA if I remember), since the battery was already charged. I expected that current to drop off and then voltage to drop to a maintenance level. I stood and watched for 20 minutes. I gave up waiting after the current dropped to one-third of the original value, with the Schumacher still putting out 14.7 volts and then disconnected it. The manual states that the maximum charging voltage is 14.8 volts, which seems very high to me, but probably would not harm a car battery. A smaller battery might overheat ? The manual states that this device is for charging and maintaining small batteries (eg. motorcycle), but that while it is suitable for maintaining large batteries, such as car and marine deep cycle batteries, it's charge current is too low to charge those. Unless I understand incorrectly, 14.8 seems to high to charge a small aircraft battery, although perhaps the voltage is unimportant if the current is limited. I did pull it apart to look. Lots of high precision resistors, but no potentiometers to adjust. Until I learn more, I will not be using this Schumacher on any batteries I do not want ruined. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net>
Subject: Odyssey Battery Longevity
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Dean, I'm a little confused. I thought CCA was "Cold Cranking Amps" and was a measure of the flow of electricity the battery can supply. Capacity is a certain number of amps for a certain number of hours without the voltage decreasing below some specified level. Am I misunderstanding something here? Thanks, Tony Babb Velocity SEFG 62% done, 78% to go www.alejandra.net/velocity -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN PSIROPOULOS Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:43 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Battery Longevity --> Just finished my fourth annual on the RV-6A. When I built the airplane I installed the firewall mounted battery kit with the Odyssey PC680 battery. Being an aficionado of Bob's philosophy I was originally going to replace the battery after two years of service. I had however, heard many great things about the Odyssey and decided to keep it in service after my second annual, it was working perfectly and I could find no reason to spend another $150 for a new one. Same great service in 2011 so I decided I'd let it run for one more year. This year I decided I'd replace it regardless of how it was performing so, I bought a new one and installed it (even though the 4 year old one still cranked the airplane vigorously). I was curious how much capacity remained in the old battery so I took it to an auto parts store and had them load test it. Results...4 year old Odyssey still put out 207 of its 220 CCA rated capacity. That's an incredible 94% capacity remaining after FOUR years!!! Down here in Florida we are lucky to get 4 years of service out of a flooded cell car battery and the Odyssey still gives a whopping 94% of the capacity it had when I bought it! Awesome battery, I think I let the new one go 5-6 years and see how it performs. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Going on 5 fun filled years ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R. curtis" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery Longevity
Date: Nov 04, 2012
> > I'm a little confused. I thought CCA was "Cold Cranking Amps" and was a > measure of the flow of electricity the battery can supply. Capacity is a > certain number of amps for a certain number of hours without the voltage > decreasing below some specified level. Am I misunderstanding something > here? >Tony You have it right! The CCA is a measurement of the ability of the battery to supply high current for short periods to operate the starter. The Capacity of the battery, measured in AH is at a much lower constant amperage. Due to the internal resistance of the battery, there will be a difference of capacity if it is measured at a higher or lower current drain. You will find that as you increase the current the AH will decrease. If you have an electrically dependent aircraft it is a good idea to capacity check your battery at approximately your normal endurance current. Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Subject: Soldering Iron Recommendations
From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>
My little pencil-style soldering iron is dead and I'm looking to replace it, perhaps with one of the station soldering irons. I'm looking for a unit that is suitable for hobby use that will last a while and get the job done. Does anyone have any recommendations for one that is worth considering? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Subject: Soldering Iron Recommendations
Date: Nov 04, 2012
I use portable soldering irons every day at work. I like the cordless (butane) for convenience of no cords and fast heat and they fit into my tool belt even right after use without the risk of burns when reaching for another tool. I have used many different kinds over the years but Portasol see http://www.apexhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=0371031693 89 has been my trusty workhorse and not the most expensive of the portables. HOWEVER, you must be mindful that it uses an open flame and sparks from the igniter which should not be used around flammables or in confined spaces where flammable fumes may have collected. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared Yates Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 7:54 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Soldering Iron Recommendations --> My little pencil-style soldering iron is dead and I'm looking to replace it, perhaps with one of the station soldering irons. I'm looking for a unit that is suitable for hobby use that will last a while and get the job done. Does anyone have any recommendations for one that is worth considering? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Soldering Iron Recommendations
Date: Nov 04, 2012
It is probably over-kill for just hobby use but I just purchased a Weller WES51 temp-controlled soldering station. They list for ~$130, got it at Fry's for $99. This is the first soldering station I've purchased in more than 20 years because I could no longer find new tips for my trusty old Ungar soldering iron. The temp is adjustable from 600 to 850F, it heats in less than a minute & the iron itself is lightweight & easy to hold. I have not used it much but, so far, I like it & it appears to get good reviews. -Jeff -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared Yates Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 07:54 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Soldering Iron Recommendations My little pencil-style soldering iron is dead and I'm looking to replace it, perhaps with one of the station soldering irons. I'm looking for a unit that is suitable for hobby use that will last a while and get the job done. Does anyone have any recommendations for one that is worth considering? ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Soldering Iron Recommendations
At 12:27 PM 11/4/2012, you wrote: > > >It is probably over-kill for just hobby use but I just purchased a Weller >WES51 temp-controlled soldering station. They list for ~$130, got it at >Fry's for $99. > >This is the first soldering station I've purchased in more than 20 years >because I could no longer find new tips for my trusty old Ungar soldering >iron. > >The temp is adjustable from 600 to 850F, it heats in less than a minute & >the iron itself is lightweight & easy to hold. I have not used it much but, >so far, I like it & it appears to get good reviews. > >-Jeff This Weller product is an excellent value. Weller was amongst the first of the soldering tool guys to come out with temperature control at the tip technology. I've owned (or caused the purchase of) many WTCP solder wands. The NEAT thing about these tools is that 'station' is simply a 24vac transformer. Temperature control happens right at the tip. I built a production line of WTCP wands for Electro-Mech back about 1982. The boss took a look at the price of the individual stations and nixed the idea; didn't want to spend that much money (8 stations as I recall). After getting a budget limit I discovered that I could buy replacement wands really reasonably. I wired the back-to- back benches with 24VAC outlets powered by a surplus transformer from my junk box. I thought Fred was going to have me flogged when I heard that he was unhappy that I bought the WTCP systems anyhow . . . but when he confronted me later I was able to show him that I'd spent only a fraction of the budget and got the performance I was seeking anyhow. Since that time, temperature control technologies have leap frogged several generations. One of the 'Cadillac' examples is sold by Metcal. See the matronics forums site to search 'Metcal' on this List. It takes some patience to get that technology at the lowest price. Never buy a complete station consisting of cord, wand, power supply and stand. Also, look for the legacy STTC/RFG30/PS2E supplies like these http://tinyurl.com/ad9l7ls http://tinyurl.com/ay5eksv http://tinyurl.com/amct74p and others. Be patient. Don't bid more than $50 and make sure 'returns are accepted'. You'll get one eventually. You'll want to buy the wand brand new. Used ones tend to be really beat. You need the MX-RM3E wand. Tips you can buy off eBay used and new at good prices and a huge selection of styles. http://tinyurl.com/basessm http://tinyurl.com/d2p28z9 This tool is only 30W but it puts it ALL at the tip. I've soldered un-insulated lugs to 2AWG welding cable with this iron. At the same time, there are needle-point tips that will handily work 0604 surface mount components under your microscope. I think the last time I assembled an STTC system was for my brother-in-law about three years ago. I think I spent about $160 total on it. There MAY be other combinations of Metcal products of equal value and accessibility . . . I'm just VERY familiar with the combination cited above. There are several systems where the parts are NOT interchangeable. They're newer than the STTC system and tend to be more expensive too. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org>
Subject: Soldering Iron Recommendations
Date: Nov 04, 2012
I have over 30 years on my two Weller 60 watt Soldering Stations. At times I have left them turned on for months at a time and they both work perfectly. Can't go wrong with a one of these Wellers for general electrical/electronic circuit work. Heats up in under a minute. Consider more modern WES51 or WESD51 (auto-shutoff). Expect to spend around $80-$150. Buy a couple of big tips, medium tips and small tips. You'll need something bigger (Weller soldering gun?) for other kinds of soldering. -john- > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Jared Yates > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 7:54 AM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Soldering Iron Recommendations > > --> > > My little pencil-style soldering iron is dead and I'm looking > to replace it, perhaps with one of the station soldering > irons. I'm looking for a unit that is suitable for hobby use > that will last a while and get the job done. Does anyone > have any recommendations for one that is worth considering? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: vhf transponder interference
From: "jappie" <jappie(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Hello Just got back from the hangar, did some test with my VHF radio, (outside) Looked at the Satellite strength signal, my average was 7.8, TX on freq. 131.20 up to 131.35 and did see a decrease in strength signal averaging 3.7, at one point, I got the poor coverage warning. So, next step, inspect my connectors, coax, antenna, ground plate...etc. Winter project. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386753#386753 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Walmart battery charger.
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Jeff, My impression is that you did not leave the 1562 on line long enough... I use several of them and they all go briefly to about 15.2 v. at very low current. Then, they start shifting down to a float or maintenance voltage level. After maybe 24 hrs on a large model battery, it will then drop to about 13. 3 V. or somewhere very near that and stay put. I leave them on continuously and have not had to add water to any of my conventional RV or engine start batteries. give it another try but, leave it on for a day or two... D ____________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Page" <jpx(at)qenesis.com> Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Walmart battery charger. > > I bought the Schumacher SEM-1562A while at AirVenture this year. It was > all that was available when I needed to recharge a battery I brought > along from a UPS that I was using to recharge my iPad. > > Although the battery had previous abuse prior to AirVenture, I did expect > it to perform adequately. I recharged it five or six times at AirVenture > and each time, it seemed like it was not fully charged. > > When I got home, I determined that the battery was no longer able to hold > a charge. > > Now that fall is here, I have some car-size batteries out of a couple of > boats in my basement. They had already been fully charged and were on > another maintainer, so are in good shape. > > Just for fun, I put the Schumacher on one of the batteries, expecting it > to go to maintenance mode almost immediately. > > Instead, it began trying to recharge the battery, with 14.7 volts. It > briefly went as high as 15.2 ! > > There was not a lot of current (maybe 150mA if I remember), since the > battery was already charged. I expected that current to drop off and > then voltage to drop to a maintenance level. > > I stood and watched for 20 minutes. I gave up waiting after the current > dropped to one-third of the original value, with the Schumacher still > putting out 14.7 volts and then disconnected it. > > The manual states that the maximum charging voltage is 14.8 volts, which > seems very high to me, but probably would not harm a car battery. A > smaller battery might overheat ? > > The manual states that this device is for charging and maintaining small > batteries (eg. motorcycle), but that while it is suitable for maintaining > large batteries, such as car and marine deep cycle batteries, it's charge > current is too low to charge those. > > Unless I understand incorrectly, 14.8 seems to high to charge a small > aircraft battery, although perhaps the voltage is unimportant if the > current is limited. > > I did pull it apart to look. Lots of high precision resistors, but no > potentiometers to adjust. > > Until I learn more, I will not be using this Schumacher on any batteries > I do not want ruined. > > Jeff Page > Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2012
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Walmart battery charger.
I just tried one of the new model XM1-5 chargers overnight on my car and it was floating at 13.4-5 volts after 24 hours. The hitch I had with it before is that the "charging" LED is not bright enough to see in ambient light, but after shading it I could see that it was on during the charge phase. The green "float" LED is brighter. Darrel Jones On 11/4/2012 1:27 PM, David Lloyd wrote: > > > Jeff, > My impression is that you did not leave the 1562 on line long enough... > > I use several of them and they all go briefly to about 15.2 v. at very > low current. Then, they start shifting down to a float or maintenance > voltage level. After maybe 24 hrs on a large model battery, it will > then drop to about 13. 3 V. or somewhere very near that and stay put. > I leave them on continuously and have not had to add water to any of > my conventional RV or engine start batteries. > > give it another try but, leave it on for a day or two... > D > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Page" <jpx(at)qenesis.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 9:24 AM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Walmart battery charger. > > >> >> I bought the Schumacher SEM-1562A while at AirVenture this year. It >> was all that was available when I needed to recharge a battery I >> brought along from a UPS that I was using to recharge my iPad. >> >> Although the battery had previous abuse prior to AirVenture, I did >> expect it to perform adequately. I recharged it five or six times >> at AirVenture and each time, it seemed like it was not fully charged. >> >> When I got home, I determined that the battery was no longer able to >> hold a charge. >> >> Now that fall is here, I have some car-size batteries out of a >> couple of boats in my basement. They had already been fully charged >> and were on another maintainer, so are in good shape. >> >> Just for fun, I put the Schumacher on one of the batteries, >> expecting it to go to maintenance mode almost immediately. >> >> Instead, it began trying to recharge the battery, with 14.7 volts. >> It briefly went as high as 15.2 ! >> >> There was not a lot of current (maybe 150mA if I remember), since the >> battery was already charged. I expected that current to drop off and >> then voltage to drop to a maintenance level. >> >> I stood and watched for 20 minutes. I gave up waiting after the >> current dropped to one-third of the original value, with the >> Schumacher still putting out 14.7 volts and then disconnected it. >> >> The manual states that the maximum charging voltage is 14.8 volts, >> which seems very high to me, but probably would not harm a car >> battery. A smaller battery might overheat ? >> >> The manual states that this device is for charging and maintaining >> small batteries (eg. motorcycle), but that while it is suitable for >> maintaining large batteries, such as car and marine deep cycle >> batteries, it's charge current is too low to charge those. >> >> Unless I understand incorrectly, 14.8 seems to high to charge a small >> aircraft battery, although perhaps the voltage is unimportant if the >> current is limited. >> >> I did pull it apart to look. Lots of high precision resistors, but >> no potentiometers to adjust. >> >> Until I learn more, I will not be using this Schumacher on any >> batteries I do not want ruined. >> >> Jeff Page >> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: More good 'junque' looking for a home
I have a like new Wakmann 8-day, clock with 24-hour dial that shows no signs of ever being installed. Emacs! This is the 'zulu' version with an pointer that can be set for another time zone, usually GMT. $100 postage paid to first taker. Satisfaction guaranteed. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Subject: Re: More good 'junque' looking for a home
hi BOB, Would love to have the clock! Old Bob Siegfried. In a message dated 11/4/2012 4:33:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes: I have a like new Wakmann 8-day, clock with 24-hour dial that shows no signs of ever being installed. This is the 'zulu' version with an pointer that can be set for another time zone, usually GMT. $100 postage paid to first taker. Satisfaction guaranteed. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: vhf transponder interference
At 02:49 PM 11/4/2012, you wrote: > >Hello > >Just got back from the hangar, did some test with my VHF radio, (outside) >Looked at the Satellite strength signal, my average was 7.8, >TX on freq. 131.20 up to 131.35 and did see a decrease in strength >signal averaging 3.7, at one point, I got the poor coverage warning. > >So, next step, inspect my connectors, coax, antenna, ground >plate...etc. Winter project. Not sure there's anything 'wrong' with your as-installed transceiver. The VHF comm transmitter WILL have harmonic content in its output. It's an expected condition that's tested during the TSO qualification process. You're probably seeing a manifestation of a special case were the transmitter might be very good in the world of terrestrial communications and navigation but offers insult to the very tiny GPS satellite signals . . . but only in a narrow range of circumstances and intermittently at that. I think you're golden. Adding the suggested 'notch filter' in your transceiver's antenna feeder will no doubt improve on your observed interference in the range of interest so if you don't mind the expense off adding the filter . . .it's not a big thing [] Aircraft Spruce has the one above for about $110. Found this one on eBay for $25 plus too much shipping (by it now). http://tinyurl.com/c3e68jf You could make a best offer of say $25 if he ships it first class in a padded envelope for $2.00. I went to the workbench and fiddled with a 'po man's notch filter. Emacs! While you're hammering on the airplane this winter, you might conduct the experiment above. Let us know what your final dimension is. Yes, the 'active dimension' includes conductors inside the coax T-connector. You'll want to do some look-see at the 13th harmonics too . . . near and either side of 121.25 Mhz. In fact, do the initial experiments at the 13th harmonic values . . . odd harmonics from transmitters tend to be much stronger than even ones. I see that Comant is now offering VHF antennas with GPS notch filtering built in. Cool move. Here's a thread on VansAF forum where a builder was experiencing severe interference http://tinyurl.com/a3em5l2 Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: More good 'junque' looking for a home
At 04:31 PM 11/4/2012, you wrote: >I have a like new Wakmann 8-day, clock with 24-hour >dial that shows no signs of ever being installed. The clock is gone gentlemen. Thanks for all the interest! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Subject: Re: More good 'junque' looking for a home
Who was the lucky winner? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 11/4/2012 6:14:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:31 PM 11/4/2012, you wrote: >I have a like new Wakmann 8-day, clock with 24-hour >dial that shows no signs of ever being installed. The clock is gone gentlemen. Thanks for all the interest! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane grounded!!!
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Hello all. Just purchased a Homebuilt Zodiac 601XL-B. Rotax 912ULS powered. A200 Radio, Flightcom 403 intercom. Aero flash strobes. The radio is intermittently squealing and tower cannot understand my transmissions. Tried both engine running and not running. Intermittent either way. When it is working, I get 5/5. When it begins squealing, 0/0. Previous owner said he had the same issue with cheaper headsets. Radio worked great, then it didn't. I'm using David Clark 13.2s's. The previous owner has a portable wired in as well, telling me that he's had issues in the past. There is a falcon T/B gyro, Garmin transponder and aero flash strobes. When the strobes are on, the pop of the flash comes thru headsets. I'm really stuck! Bought this plane, and now can't fly it! The rest of the plane is great,, ending runs PERFECT..... But this radio issue has me beat! HELLLP! Chad. :( Additional info..... There is a handheld wired into the system. It uses its own separate antenna, but there are two switches on centre console to flip send receive. I wonder if that wiring is causing the problems. Helllllp! -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386788#386788 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_137.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: More good 'junque' looking for a home
At 06:24 PM 11/4/2012, you wrote: >Who was the lucky winner? The guy who got the PayPal invoice . . . which I see you've paid already. It goes out tomorrow via first class mail. Thank you sir! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make
A Contribution Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Make sure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Bob has mentioned and recommended the METCAL soldering iron for years, and I have to say I never quite "got it" until my last soldering iron died and I bought a Metcal on Ebay. Now what on God's Green Earth would make a soldering iron worth over $800 (new)? Especially when the tips are $30 each. It has no temperature control. If it had an instruction manual, I haven't ever seen it. What's so special? Well, let me tell you brothers and sisters....If you do electronic soldering, buy a Metcal today. Log onto Ebay and get one cheap. When you first use it, you will ask yourself, "This is NUTS! Why the Hell did I ever use anything else? Why didn't someone tell me about this thing?" I bought one on Ebay for $100, and I also bought one (a complete repair station with the soldering and desoldering stuff...brand new, with tips, for $47 on ShopGoodwill.com), but deals like that don't come up very often. Here's what makes Metcal the Cat's-Meow of the soldering world: 1) They have NO MANUAL TEMPERATURE CONTROL AT ALL. NONE. 2) The tips are as long as a pencil and simply push in. No locking collars to tighted or loosen. An added bonus is that the tips can be changed when hot. They have a silicone hot-mitt on the cord with which you can grab the hot tip. This makes me smile. They thought of EVERYTHING. 3) They have a hefty low-voltage power supply that heats (and automatically adjusts) whatever tip you're using almost instantly. 4) When you aren't using it, it goes into a quiescent mode automatically. 5) The cord is silicone and as limp as can be. 6) They thought of everything....It is just heart-touching how much the designers cared about this thing...and it shows. You can buy these used on Ebay for a couple hundred or less. You need the power unit, the pencil, the tip and the holder. I like STTC-147 tips for my work. I had a "personal shopper" notification set up on Ebay so that whenever one came up I'd get an email. Now I have a lifetime supply. Look...I know you think I'm a ragging lunatic for being so completely in love with a soldering iron, but it's like the old joke: Q: Metcal is by far the best soldering iron, so what's second-best? A: There is no second best. Metcal is simply so good, there is nothing else in the game. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386890#386890 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Subject: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane
grounded!!!
From: "Jeff B." <loboflyer(at)gmail.com>
Since you haven't received any help from other members, I'll try shooting from the hip: The quality of the headset shouldn't matter. This leads me to believe that either you are seeing the headsets picking up RF in the cockpit, which suggests an RF leakage issue in the cockpit, or there is some wacky impedance issue with the headsets. The first is more likely, since Flightcom usually makes pretty robust designs. 1. What do you mean by "flip send receive"? Is the antenna coax wired through these switches, or just audio? Are they RF switches or just regular DPDT switches? If the latter, and they are switching RF, I'd be concerned. Switching VHF with DPDT switches might be possible, but requires extreme care in connection and shielding. 2. Do you hear the squeal or just the tower? 3. Inspect all coax connections, check DC continuity with an ohmmeter. Use or borrow an SWR meter and check the antenna connections while wiggling the cables at the connectors. 4. Go through and check the wiring per Flightcom and Icom's instructions. 5. If everything looks ok, you might consider bypassing the intercom by first disconnecting power from just the intercom (it should bypass audio internally), and next using the shorting jumper they recommend in the manual if issues persist. 6. Another thing to check is sidetone. Sidetone provides the comfort of hearing your own voice when transmitting. If the squeal sounds like feedback, make sure that sidetone is enabled on the radio and disabled on the intercom. Hope this helps and that I'm not steering you wrong. -Jeff- On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 7:19 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > > Hello all. Just purchased a Homebuilt Zodiac 601XL-B. Rotax 912ULS > powered. A200 Radio, Flightcom 403 intercom. Aero flash strobes. The radio > is intermittently squealing and tower cannot understand my transmissions. > Tried both engine running and not running. Intermittent either way. When it > is working, I get 5/5. When it begins squealing, 0/0. Previous owner said > he had the same issue with cheaper headsets. Radio worked great, then it > didn't. I'm using David Clark 13.2s's. The previous owner has a portable > wired in as well, telling me that he's had issues in the past. There is a > falcon T/B gyro, Garmin transponder and aero flash strobes. When the > strobes are on, the pop of the flash comes thru headsets. I'm really stuck! > Bought this plane, and now can't fly it! The rest of the plane is great,, > ending runs PERFECT..... But this radio issue has me beat! HELLLP! > > Chad. :( > > Additional info..... There is a handheld wired into the system. It uses > its own separate antenna, but there are two switches on centre console to > flip send receive. I wonder if that wiring is causing the problems. > > > Helllllp! > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386788#386788 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
At 07:50 AM 11/5/2012, you wrote: > >Bob has mentioned and recommended the METCAL soldering iron for >years, and I have to say I never quite "got it" until my last >soldering iron died and I bought a Metcal on Ebay. >Q: Metcal is by far the best soldering iron, so what's second-best? >A: There is no second best. Metcal is simply so good, there is >nothing else in the game. I could not have said it better sir. I didn't know Metcal existed until I went to work at Beech-before-Raytheon the first time (about 1980). The techs in the Targets Division all had them. Found out later that the assembly building on the 'square mile' was totally Metcal. Had little chance for up close and personal experience at first . . . lots of capable support that knew how to drive soldering irons and place parts. Over the years I gained a healthy respect for the sheer rugged precision and flexibility that this tool offered. It's rather un-assuming with a lack of dials, indicators and wires (that wand cable is just shielded wire, the power supply is simply a 30 watt, 500 Hkz 'transmitter'). Those who are students of the arts in this business will recall great milestones in the history. The lead-acid battery leading to modern SVLA, the engine driven alternator leading to Nipon Dienso and stable mates, Klaus Savier's Light Speed products that were the forerunners of E-mags . . . just to name a few. Now a guy who soldered his hobby projects with a plumber's copper heated on mom's stove owns three Metcal stations and has outfitted all interested relatives with them. Someone looking at a soldering tool for the first time cannot know what thinking and processes went into its emergence from the often chaotic evolution of what now appears to be ho-hum technology. And my grand kids will never write their first chapter of a book on a Kaypro either. But I'm going to tell them about it . . . while making sure that what ever version of Windows does not pose unnecessary impediments! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 05, 2012
> Bob....the power supply is simply a..., 500 Hkz 'transmitter' Bob, Right you are. The new ones are even higher frequencies, ~13 MHz or so and 2X or so the power. Surprises me. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386901#386901 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Please Make A Contribution Today!
At 02:14 AM 11/5/2012, you wrote: > >Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message >acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to >support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that >took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. I will add my voice to this suggestion. It's easy to enjoy the benefits of what's available to us off-the-shelves at the corner mega-marts. It's seldom that we give pause to learn and understand the processes and tools that made it possible to reach out and select from dozens of options. This, and all civil societies, runs on talent, energy and mobility. Mobility exploited by thousands of hands, machines and transportation that figure into the 'infrastructure' that puts the boxes of Wheaties and Pop Tarts on the shelves. See "I pencil" http://tinyurl.com/36xkhq Any break in that chain of time, talent and resources at least interrupts if not totally halts flow of that benefit. Matt's room full of byte-thrashers is like the natural gas pumping station a few miles from my house. If those pumps stop, who ever is expecting the furnace to come on at the other end of the pipe is at risk for reduced service and/or higher costs for that service. Matt's yearly endeavor to keep his pumps running is a trivial burden on the members of the Lists but of incalculable value to those who participate on them. No donation is too small. We go to a fly-in a willingly chuck a few bucks into the coffee can at the drinks and donuts table, let's chuck a few bucks into Matt's coffee can too. 50,000 pounds of value doesn't get to the shelves on time if one 18-wheeler runs out of gas. The T-bytes of data flow we all enjoy don't get from your keyboard to the screens of others unless Matt pays the light bill and strokes the machines to keep them happy. No, $5 won't get you a free copy of the 'Connection or a fuel sampler but it will go toward the assurance that logging onto your favorite List will open doors that you would be sorely missed should you find that hitting the return key doesn't produce the expected response. $5 from every List customer on Matt's system will go a very long way to keeping the byte-pumps running. $More$ will go a long way to upgrading the size and quality of the machines as the old ones get long in the tooth. No matter what size of donation you choose . . . please do it now . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
Eric (and anyone else), Is there a chance that you or someone could offer up what would be a good model of station to go with for someone who wants to do general electronics/avionics work? I noted you said the STTC-147 tips. Just browsed eBay and saw there are many models. I have 2 weller stations right now, and use the tiny point pencil tips quite a bit. I don't really *need* a new station, but hey, if they're as good as you say, I could be up for buying one. I' probably get new though if possible. Tim On 11/5/2012 7:50 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote: > > Bob has mentioned and recommended the METCAL soldering iron for years, and I have to say I never quite "got it" until my last soldering iron died and I bought a Metcal on Ebay. > > Now what on God's Green Earth would make a soldering iron worth over $800 (new)? Especially when the tips are $30 each. It has no temperature control. If it had an instruction manual, I haven't ever seen it. What's so special? > > Well, let me tell you brothers and sisters....If you do electronic soldering, buy a Metcal today. Log onto Ebay and get one cheap. When you first use it, you will ask yourself, "This is NUTS! Why the Hell did I ever use anything else? Why didn't someone tell me about this thing?" > > I bought one on Ebay for $100, and I also bought one (a complete repair station with the soldering and desoldering stuff...brand new, with tips, for $47 on ShopGoodwill.com), but deals like that don't come up very often. > > Here's what makes Metcal the Cat's-Meow of the soldering world: > > 1) They have NO MANUAL TEMPERATURE CONTROL AT ALL. NONE. > 2) The tips are as long as a pencil and simply push in. No locking collars to tighted or loosen. An added bonus is that the tips can be changed when hot. They have a silicone hot-mitt on the cord with which you can grab the hot tip. This makes me smile. They thought of EVERYTHING. > 3) They have a hefty low-voltage power supply that heats (and automatically adjusts) whatever tip you're using almost instantly. > 4) When you aren't using it, it goes into a quiescent mode automatically. > 5) The cord is silicone and as limp as can be. > 6) They thought of everything....It is just heart-touching how much the designers cared about this thing...and it shows. > > You can buy these used on Ebay for a couple hundred or less. You need the power unit, the pencil, the tip and the holder. I like STTC-147 tips for my work. I had a "personal shopper" notification set up on Ebay so that whenever one came up I'd get an email. Now I have a lifetime supply. > > Look...I know you think I'm a ragging lunatic for being so completely in love with a soldering iron, but it's like the old joke: > > Q: Metcal is by far the best soldering iron, so what's second-best? > A: There is no second best. Metcal is simply so good, there is nothing else in the game. > > -------- > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge, MA 01550 > (508) 764-2072 > emjones(at)charter.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
Subject: Sub-standard Charging
Date: Nov 05, 2012
I have a Z-13/8 installation which charges between 12.5 and 12.9 since I've been using it. After startup the system charges happily to that level and then simply maintains it. I am trying to determine why the system stops charging at that level. From what I have read I should be expecting 13.0+ for normal operations. My B & C idiot light goes off at 13.0 so it too is constantly on. 12.5 doesn't stop me from flying, but I would like to resolve. I have an 80 amp alternator from Aerosport Power. Normal Load (5-30 amps) does not exceed capacity. Suggestions or procedures or what to test much appreciated. Thanks, Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 05, 2012
I use an RFG-30. There is one on Ebay now for $20 with handpiece and tip including shipping. Seller says the holder might be included. ANY Metcal will do fine. The newer the more expensive. Again, you need the power supply, the handpiece the holder and the tip. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386906#386906 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sub-standard Charging
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Glenn, Thanks for the commentary. I have a similar situation with my Rotax 914, external Denso alternator. Everything works but the charging voltage isn't high enough to make the B&C voltage monitor light go out. Present normal load on the system is less than 5 amps. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. rlborger(at)mac.com On Nov 5, 2012, at 9:17 AM, longg(at)pjm.com wrote: I have a Z-13/8 installation which charges between 12.5 and 12.9 since I've been using it. After startup the system charges happily to that level and then simply maintains it. I am trying to determine why the system stops charging at that level. From what I have read I should be expecting 13.0+ for normal operations. My B & C idiot light goes off at 13.0 so it too is constantly on. 12.5 doesn't stop me from flying, but I would like to resolve. I have an 80 amp alternator from Aerosport Power. Normal Load (5-30 amps) does not exceed capacity. Suggestions or procedures or what to test much appreciated. Thanks, Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
On 11/05/2012 08:30 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 07:50 AM 11/5/2012, you wrote: >> >> >> Bob has mentioned and recommended the METCAL soldering iron for >> years, and I have to say I never quite "got it" until my last >> soldering iron died and I bought a Metcal on Ebay. > > > >> Q: Metcal is by far the best soldering iron, so what's second-best? >> A: There is no second best. Metcal is simply so good, there is >> nothing else in the game. > > I could not have said it better sir. I didn't know Metcal existed > until I went to work at Beech-before-Raytheon the first time > (about 1980). The techs in the Targets Division all had them. > Found out later that the assembly building on the 'square mile' > was totally Metcal. Had little chance for up close and personal > experience at first . . . lots of capable support that knew how to > drive > soldering irons and place parts. > > Over the years I gained a healthy respect for the sheer rugged > precision and flexibility that this tool offered. It's rather > un-assuming with a lack of dials, indicators and wires (that > wand cable is just shielded wire, the power supply is simply > a 30 watt, 500 Hkz 'transmitter'). > > Those who are students of the arts in this business will recall > great milestones in the history. The lead-acid battery leading > to modern SVLA, the engine driven alternator leading to Nipon > Dienso and stable mates, Klaus Savier's Light Speed products that > were the forerunners of E-mags . . . just to name a few. Now > a guy who soldered his hobby projects with a plumber's > copper heated on mom's stove owns three Metcal stations and has > outfitted all interested relatives with them. > > Someone looking at a soldering tool for the first time cannot > know what thinking and processes went into its emergence > from the often chaotic evolution of what now appears to be ho-hum > technology. And my grand kids will never write their first chapter > of a book on a Kaypro either. But I'm going to tell them about > it . . . while making sure that what ever version of Windows does > not pose unnecessary impediments! > > > Bob . . . Kaypro?? Go to the real beginning: Osborne One. :-) (wish I still had mine, for my museum collection...) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Subject: Re: radio interference?
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Bob: The radio problem has been resolved. Experimenting with the leads going to the Magnetos revealed the issue. When the wires were originally stripped and had terminals crimped, too much shielding was cut away. There was about 4 inches of unshielded wire. When that stretch of unshielded wire was reduced to a minimum, the radio worked normally (also the old 90 deg. bend antenna was replaced with a straight one). This explanation surprised me because the description of the problem didn't sound like ignition noise. The only thing I can think of is that the modern (probably digital) squelch circuitry in the ICOM radio was interacting with this interference to make it sound different than a simple, analog squelch circuit would. I'm guessing these com radios nowadays are mostly digital inside and you end up hearing what the digital signal processor computer thinks is there. It can confuse us old geezers who are used to simple analog stuff. Anyway, thanks for your suggestions (he had tried different headsets, BTW). On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 8:06 AM, thomas sargent wrote: > Bob: > I'll have to check for sure, but I think the hand held was on its own > antenna and not connected into the plane's antenna. Switching headsets is > a good suggestion. I'll tell him about that. > > I agree that his description of the noise doesn't sound like ignition > noise. It's like another radio is is squashing the signal somehow. I > can't figure how the ICOM could do that to itself and still check out on > the bench, though. Weird. > > Thanks for the suggestions. > > -- > Tom Sargent > -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
>Kaypro?? Go to the real beginning: Osborne One. :-) >(wish I still had mine, for my museum collection...) Hmmm . . . we could go back further still and consider the seedling efforts of PARC where they were playing with multi-tasking, windows-like desk tops, etc. etc. I think "Lisa" was their first table-top computer that offered consumer-friendly features. Rumor has it that a lot of features that turned up on original offering of Microsoft and Apple had genesis in visits by Jobs and Gates to the PARC facility at 1980 Porter drive . . . I learned to do 6800/6500 assembler on the AIM-65. Emacs! A couple years later that a Kaypro II offered formatted printout of spell-checked word processing. The first chapters of the 'Connection were done on the Kaypro but ported to a XP running WordStar before it got printed. The camera ready two-column printout was done on a daisy-wheel printer! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
>If you want to avoid Windows' unnecessary impediments, avoid >Windows!!! The future is open source. Sure. But in terms of cost/performance ratio for neophyte friendly computing, Windows/Apple still commands the market. Robust competition cannot be anything but good. Example: MicroCAD Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
At 11:47 AM 11/5/2012, you wrote: > > >So what do you suggest to replace windows?? Until just recently, every computer in the house (7) runs XP_SP3. Just bought Dr. Dee a dual processor, 64 bit work station and installed Win7. She's been running Win7 for a couple years on the company provided laptop with good results. So far, the new Win7 machine has been stable . . . and fast. I think a lot of 'trouble' folks are having with various combinations of hardware/system/application have to do with inadvertent log-jams and changes to configuration. Ever so often, I do a Ghost Restore on my grand-kid's computers when the onslaught of interesting downloads and inadvertent infections of malware reduce the computer to a pile of frozen transistors and hard-drives. I generally avoid any upgrade of operating system until it's up to Service Pack 2 . . . XP has been VERY stable compared to it's predecessors. Skipped Vista entirely. Experience with Win7 has yet to give rise to trepidation. My comment about Windows was more tongue in cheek than any suggestion of complaint. I've produced tens of thousands of hours of work product on PC-Dos/Windows machines for which my boss/customers have compensated me well. I'm not looking to abandon Uncle Bill soon . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane
grounded!!
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Jeff; There are two separate radios, and two separate antennas. One is mounted on top of the fuselage, and one on the bottom. I believe the switches simply flip the connections from one radio to the other. Just the audio to my knowledge. Both myself and the tower hear the squeal. Well, the tower just said I was high pitched and unreadable. I confirmed that they were unable to hear or understand my transmissions. The squeal definitely sounds like feedback, and thats my first reaction to it. Its like an electric guitar next to an amplifier. Squeal builds until your ear drums are obsolete. Because its intermittent, thats why I'm so confused. It would make sense that sidetones are conflicting. Thats how it seems anyways... I just didnt know how or even IF you could turn off Sidetone in the 403. Do you know how to accomplish that? Flightcom didnt mention anything to that effect, about shutting off sidetone etc. Said to look at the wiring for the headphone and mic jacks etc. Your help is greatly appreciated! Hoping this is a simple fix..... either way, what I do know, is that when this anomaly occurs, it renders communications inop. What is even more bizarre, is that when it was doing this squeal to me, I was on 118.4, yet when switching to 129.10 it was 5/5! Thanks Jeff...... Im hoping to some how just remove that second radio all together. Going to try and see if I can get the same effect of squeal etc on the handheld thats wired in. Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386940#386940 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
At 09:02 AM 11/5/2012, you wrote: > >Eric (and anyone else), > >Is there a chance that you or someone could offer up what would be a >good model of station to go with for someone who wants to do >general electronics/avionics work? I noted you said the STTC-147 >tips. Just browsed eBay and saw there are many models. >I have 2 weller stations right now, and use the tiny point pencil >tips quite a bit. I don't really *need* a new station, but hey, >if they're as good as you say, I could be up for buying one. >I' probably get new though if possible. >Tim That's not a simple question. Metcal has offered numerous variations on their magic over the years . . . and the components of those systems have limited or no interchangeability. My post of a few days ago suggests that you look for loose components of the legacy system. These tend to be the least expensive/desirable. If you want to consider the full evolution of Metcal product development, then go for a complete power supply, wand combination. Then cruise the Metcal website for the right SERIES of tips (there will be dozens). The STTC tips fit the legacy 30 watt systems I described in my earlier posting. But no doubt there will come a time when the supply of good used examples begin to dry up . . . it may be drying up already. The first one I bought was a 'deal' sparked by a surplus equipment dump by the space program contractors in the Orlando area. An event not likely to be repeated. If you've got the budget, then go for ANY of the new systems offered in the catalogs or complete systems offered on eBay. These are exemplar offerings . .. http://tinyurl.com/b9dakb3 http://tinyurl.com/chkshfw http://tinyurl.com/b9dakb3 It all depends on how much time you want to spend to save some money . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Sub-standard Charging
At 09:17 AM 11/5/2012, you wrote: > >I have a Z-13/8 installation which charges between 12.5 and 12.9 >since I've been using it. After startup the system charges happily >to that level and then simply maintains it. I am trying to determine >why the system stops charging at that level. From what I have read I >should be expecting 13.0+ for normal operations. 14.2 to 14.6 is better yet > My B & C idiot light goes off at 13.0 so it too is constantly on. > 12.5 doesn't stop me from flying, but I would like to resolve. I > have an 80 amp alternator from Aerosport Power. Normal Load (5-30 > amps) does not exceed capacity. 12.5 says your alternator is NOT working at all. >Suggestions or procedures or what to test much appreciated. You need to divide and conquer. If you have an externally regulated alternator, then do the experiments described in the B&C trouble- shooting procedures for LR3. Or you can add a field voltage sense lead as described in Note 8 of Appendix Z. Alternatively, you can craft a test regulator like this: Emacs! This is a cheap generic VR166 regulator for "ford". Convert your alternator to a locally regulated device with temporary installation of this test regulator and then go fly the airplane. If the bus voltage rises to the nominal 14.2 volts, then your problem resides in the existing regulator . . . if not, the alternator has a problem. What are your e-bus voltages during endurance mode ops with the 8A standby alternator? Hmm . . . silly question. You're flying with a partially charged battery. The SD-8 wouldn't be able to push the bus voltage up much under endurance mode ops. Need to get the big dog woke up first . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Sub-standard Charging
At 09:31 AM 11/5/2012, you wrote: > >Glenn, > >Thanks for the commentary. I have a similar situation with my Rotax >914, external Denso alternator. Everything works but the charging >voltage isn't high enough to make the B&C voltage monitor light go >out. Present normal load on the system is less than 5 amps. What's the field voltage while in flight? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: DIY GPS notch filter
Got some good feedback from a builder who's fiddling with the DIY GPS notch filter proposed yesterday. He points out a need to take care how 'clean' your trim cuts are on the coax stub. Here's a cut I just made using a "shearing" style cable cutter on a piece of RG141. There are no shield strands in danger of shorting the end of the stub but there's a lot of debris that would 'de-tune' it. Use a fine stiff brush to clean off the end after the cut is made. Check under magnifying lens for potential shield-center shorts. Use sharp pointed tool to push shield strands away from center conductor. When you're finished with the cut-n-see process, dip the end of the finished stub in 5 minute epoxy. Emacs! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
On 11/05/2012 04:24 PM, Eric Page wrote: > Linux is widely perceived as an OS for IT geeks and experimenters. The > very idea of learning how to configure a new OS, finding hardware > drivers, getting networking hooked up, finding, installing and learning > software to do what I want, etc., is exhausting. That may have been true a decade ago. Today, Linux is just as easy to install and run as Windows 7 or OSX. Give the latest Ubuntu or Centos releases a try if you are curious. -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>
Thank you all for the very helpful tips! I'll put them to good use with some eBay shopping. On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 3:19 PM, John Loram wrote: > > I have over 30 years on my two Weller 60 watt Soldering Stations. At times I > have left them turned on for months at a time and they both work perfectly. > Can't go wrong with a one of these Wellers for general electrical/electronic > circuit work. Heats up in under a minute. Consider more modern WES51 or > WESD51 (auto-shutoff). Expect to spend around $80-$150. Buy a couple of big > tips, medium tips and small tips. > > You'll need something bigger (Weller soldering gun?) for other kinds of > soldering. > > -john- > > >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On >> Behalf Of Jared Yates >> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 7:54 AM >> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Soldering Iron Recommendations >> >> --> >> >> My little pencil-style soldering iron is dead and I'm looking >> to replace it, perhaps with one of the station soldering >> irons. I'm looking for a unit that is suitable for hobby use >> that will last a while and get the job done. Does anyone >> have any recommendations for one that is worth considering? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations
I'll second that. I've been running Ubuntu for a couple of years and I've had less problems than I had with any MS operating sys. Many applications for Linux will produce output that is compatible with MS software and will import MS output formats. A growing number of MS programs can be run on a Linux box using WINE. There is also support available from Canonical at different levels depending on what you want to buy. I've not used the Canonical support but I'm willing to bet that it's better than anything I received from MS over the years. Don't live in the past. Try it!!! Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/05/2012 03:33 PM, Dj Merrill wrote: > > On 11/05/2012 04:24 PM, Eric Page wrote: > >> Linux is widely perceived as an OS for IT geeks and experimenters. The >> very idea of learning how to configure a new OS, finding hardware >> drivers, getting networking hooked up, finding, installing and learning >> software to do what I want, etc., is exhausting. > > That may have been true a decade ago. Today, Linux is just as easy to > install and run as Windows 7 or OSX. Give the latest Ubuntu or Centos > releases a try if you are curious. > > -Dj > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Sub-standard Charging
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane
grounded!!
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2012
UPDATE: AME looked over the install of the comm, and all looks proper. Squealed for him as well with plane not running. We even unplugged the handheld and it still did it. So, the A200 has been pulled and sent to Avionics shop for bench testing. Stay tuned..... (Pun intended) Hopefully the A200 is broken! Then it'll be an easy fix. Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387086#387086 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2012
From: D L Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com>
Subject: Few more comments on Metcal
We have been using the Metcal stations for about 20 years and even the one or two stations we bought at full retail have paid for themselves within a short time. I first used these when doing consulting for Apple and there was no turning back. There are two simple differences between these and other irons: (1) the work heats up much faster for a given temperature because the tip (and only the tip) is maintained at the right temperature, and (2) the tool is so much smaller and lighter that it's just a lot easier to use. There are three series of these systems. The original MX500 is the most common. It uses a modified coaxial F connector for the handpiece, and single-pin tips from the STTC series. This is what we use (my company makes microphones for recording studios.) The newest MX5000 have more power, a lot of programmable features and options for handpiece grips etc. but they use the same STTC tips. There was a low cost SP200 series for a while using a different handpiece connector and different tips, I would recommend that you avoid them -- while they work fine, the tips and handpiece connectors (that have two small pins inside rather than the single coaxial pin of the STTC) don't last as long in our experience. Two cautions with the older MX500 units: they don't have auto idle/shutoff and the tip will erode if you leave it on for weeks without using it, and some of the power units can be damaged if you turn them on without having a tip and handpiece connected. Be sure the handpiece cable is securely threaded or pushed on before you turn on the power. The standard STTC-137 tip for normal use and STTC-117 for heavy work do most of what we need. I have an old standby Weller WTCP station in the travel kit because it's smaller than the Metcal. The standard PTA7 and bigger PTD7 tips are all you need. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2012
Subject: Stereo to mono headphone jacks
From: Eric Marenyi <marenyi(at)gmail.com>
I bought some of the Stereo headphone plugs from B and C and tried calling to ask a question but was unable to get an answer. I have a Flightline FL-760 radio and this only has a mono headphone output so should I just run a jumper wire from the sleeve post to the ring post and ground them both, and the tip wire would be the wire fed from the radio? I am struggling through making a harness for the radio and this was ONE of the looming questions. I have another regarding grounds from other components, but I will wait until I get home to attach a photo of the wiring schematic. Thanks -- Eric M. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo to mono headphone jacks
At 02:00 PM 11/6/2012, you wrote: > >I bought some of the Stereo headphone plugs from B and C and tried >calling to ask a question but was unable to get an answer. I have a >Flightline FL-760 radio and this only has a mono headphone output so >should I just run a jumper wire from the sleeve post to the ring post >and ground them both, and the tip wire would be the wire fed from the >radio? I'm presuming that your headphones are fitted with 1/4", stereo plugs. To convert to monophonic operation put headphone audio to both tip and ring connections. The tip-ring connection becomes the HI or signal connector to your FL-760 The headset ground still goes to the sleeve. >I am struggling through making a harness for the radio and this was >ONE of the looming questions. > >I have another regarding grounds from other components, but I will >wait until I get home to attach a photo of the wiring schematic. I hope you're planning on some form of common ground local to the radios. You can build from scratch or purchase http://tinyurl.com/7hvmat6 as your needs/motivations dictate. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane
grounded!!
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2012
Well...... Radio seems fine. Only thing that was out of whack was the sidetone. Apparently it was set really high. Not sure if that has any effect or not. Getting radio back on Friday.... So, we will see. Guess its time to move on to other possibilities..... :-/ Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387173#387173 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2012
From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting-
plane grounded!! Yes it might. Factory settings of sidetone and mic gain were too high for my headset causing distortion. Believe I also had to increase squelch. Has worked well after that for several years now. Ken On 07/11/2012 3:18 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > "SIDESLIP" > > Well...... Radio seems fine. Only thing that was out of whack was the > sidetone. Apparently it was set really high. Not sure if that has any > effect or not. > > Getting radio back on Friday.... So, we will see. Guess its time to > move on to other possibilities..... :-/ > > Chad > > -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org>
Date: Nov 07, 2012
Subject: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting-
plane grounded!! I had some squealing issues with my DIY intercom and Garmin 480 that were resolved by turning the sidetone on the 480 all the way to 0. (The intercom provides sidetone). Not sure whether that's relevant to your situation. Henry On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Ken wrote: > > Yes it might. Factory settings of sidetone and mic gain were too high > for my headset causing distortion. Believe I also had to increase > squelch. Has worked well after that for several years now. > Ken > > > On 07/11/2012 3:18 PM, SIDESLIP wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: >> "SIDESLIP" >> >> Well...... Radio seems fine. Only thing that was out of whack was the >> sidetone. Apparently it was set really high. Not sure if that has any >> effect or not. >> >> Getting radio back on Friday.... So, we will see. Guess its time to >> move on to other possibilities..... :-/ >> >> Chad >> >> -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2012
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 11/05/12
From: Allan Chong <allanychong(at)gmail.com>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Soldering Iron Recommendations > > Is there a chance that you or someone could offer up what would be a > good model of station to go with for someone who wants to do > general electronics/avionics work? I noted you said the STTC-147 > tips. Just browsed eBay and saw there are many models. > I have 2 weller stations right now, and use the tiny point pencil > tips quite a bit. I don't really *need* a new station, but hey, > if they're as good as you say, I could be up for buying one. > I' probably get new though if possible. > Tim > I've got a PS2E. Works very very well and was maybe $50 on ebay. I've heard the cords are fragile, but I've never had a problem. If you've used the standard cheap Weller or worse, you'll wonder what the heck you were doing before. It certainly wasn't soldering. Btw, after getting a ride in a RV6 at the factory years ago, the pilot stopped in one of their front hangar rooms and showed part of a 4 place plane being riveted. "We think we're going to call this the RV10" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Beautiful Jade Pendants Online!
From: "dshfjhj" <jennybess54(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2012
This developed normal Jade Pendant (http://www.jadejewelrymall.com/jadeite-pendant.html) is put by 18k shiny precious metal or jewelry and developed with a small historical cash necklace, a jadeite tablet and a precious metal variety on the top. Both of top and base of normal jade pendant is developed with a small jadeite tablet. The exterior of normal jade pendant is strong and challenging. Green Jade (http://www.jadejewelrymall.com) The gorgeous dark red with dark-colored normal are involved and allocated all over this necklace. It is also developed with ice shiny and lighting normal of jadeite necklace and pellets and make it look more dynamic. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387195#387195 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RGent1224(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 07, 2012
Subject: for Bob
I sent you an E-Mail thru your web site and I believe it to be rejected for improper email address format that I put in correctly. Here is the message that I sent you Thanks Dick I have the following crimper and would like to get the instruction sheet for it if possible Manufacturer: Clark CABLE Part Number: MS25037-1A FSN: 5120-00-596-9313 I've had it for a long time and played with it but am now getting ready to wire my homebuilt airplane and would like to know that I'm using it properly. Thanks Dick E-Mail _rgent1224(at)aol.com_ (mailto:rgent1224(at)aol.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: for Bob
At 08:21 PM 11/7/2012, you wrote: >I sent you an E-Mail thru your web site and I believe it to be >rejected for improper email address format that I put in correctly. >Here is the message that I sent you >Thanks >Dick > >I have the following crimper and would like to get the instruction >sheet for it if possible >Manufacturer: Clark CABLE >Part Number: MS25037-1A >FSN: 5120-00-596-9313 >I've had it for a long time and played with it but am now getting >ready to wire my homebuilt airplane and would like to know that I'm >using it properly. >Thanks >Dick >E-Mail rgent1224(at)aol.com Yeah, I've got a bug I need to fix on that script. I don't think there's a manual for that tool. They're pretty generic technology. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2012
From: dstevenco(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: for Bob
Bob, The same thing happened to me when I tried to order your book. I am wiring up my Zenith with your z-16. Good luck fixing the problem. Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 9:39:29 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: for Bob At 08:21 PM 11/7/2012, you wrote: I sent you an E-Mail thru your web site and I believe it to be rejected for improper email address format that I put in correctly. Here is the message that I sent you Thanks Dick I have the following crimper and would like to get the instruction sheet for it if possible Manufacturer: Clark CABLE Part Number: MS25037-1A FSN: 5120-00-596-9313 I've had it for a long time and played with it but am now getting ready to wire my homebuilt airplane and would like to know that I'm using it properly. Thanks Dick E-Mail rgent1224(at)aol.com Yeah, I've got a bug I need to fix on that script. I don't think there's a manual for that tool. They're pretty generic technology. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch
Button... There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: for Bob
At 11:51 PM 11/7/2012, you wrote: >Bob, >The same thing happened to me when I tried to order your book. I am >wiring up my Zenith with your z-16. >Good luck fixing the problem. >Darren The problem script is associated only with the direct contact request form on my website. As far as I know, the order form has always been working properly. It is tested every time I modify the catalog. In fact, my 'fix' for the direct contact form will be to take the script for the order form and strip it down to the alternate task. Like working on old plumbing, it's often easier to simply cut out all the old stuff and go back new . . . than to attempt a fix for a drip. When did you encounter a problem acquiring the book? A search of my shipping records doesn't reveal a fulfilled order. I'm pleased to accommodate your wishes. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 11/05/12
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 08, 2012
Allan: > I've got a PS2E. Works very very well and was maybe $50 on ebay. I've heard the cords are fragile, but I've never had a problem. > If you've used the standard cheap Weller or worse, you'll wonder what > the heck you were doing before. It certainly wasn't soldering. Well put. There are many people on the AeroElectric site that have vast experience with soldering. It is difficult to explain to anybody, not-already-converted, why changing to a Metcal will measurably improve their life, but over and over again you will read that changing to Metcal was (at least relatively) a life-changing experience. Nooooooooooooooooobody ever goes back. Nobody. Never. It is also a common experience that new Metcal users are slightly pissed-off--that NOBODY forced them to upgrade earlier. This still has me miffed. Why did my more knowledgeable friends out there keep this secret from me?! Huh? That should say something. It is hard to come up with an analogous situation...after all it is just a tool. When somebody says something nice about their new temperature controlled Weller or Hakko or American Beauty...well, I think I'd give one to my grandson, but I'd tell him that he'd get a Metcal upgrade when he gets older and learns what it's all about. It would be as hard to go back to a Weller as it would to return to a 300 baud modem. or a daisy-wheel printer, or an amber Amdek monitor or 5-1/4" sausage-hole floppy disks, or an IBM 4.77 MHz pc. Or AOL, or my Boy Scout flashlight with a filament lamp. Sure it can be used...but... -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387313#387313 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger & Jean Curtis" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 11/05/12
Date: Nov 08, 2012
There are many people on the AeroElectric site that have vast experience with soldering. It is difficult to explain to anybody, not-already-converted, why changing to a Metcal will measurably improve their life, but over and over again you will read that changing to Metcal was (at least relatively) a life-changing experience. Nooooooooooooooooobody ever goes back. Nobody. Never. It is also a common experience that new Metcal users are slightly pissed-off--that NOBODY forced them to upgrade earlier. This still has me miffed. Why did my more knowledgeable friends out there keep this secret from me?! Huh? -------- Eric M. Jones Am I to assume, after all the ranting, that you sorta like the Metcal and think that it is a bit better than others on the market??? Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2012
From: dstevenco(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: for Bob
Bob, Thank you. I had tried to make the purchase from your site over a year ago. However, I ended up purchasing your book from T.J. at the BandC booth at Sun-n-Fun last April. By the way, it's one great book. It sure makes life easier and imho much safer. Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2012 6:37:59 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: for Bob At 11:51 PM 11/7/2012, you wrote: >Bob, >The same thing happened to me when I tried to order your book. I am >wiring up my Zenith with your z-16. >Good luck fixing the problem. >Darren The problem script is associated only with the direct contact request form on my website. As far as I know, the order form has always been working properly. It is tested every time I modify the catalog. In fact, my 'fix' for the direct contact form will be to take the script for the order form and strip it down to the alternate task. Like working on old plumbing, it's often easier to simply cut out all the old stuff and go back new . . . than to attempt a fix for a drip. When did you encounter a problem acquiring the book? A search of my shipping records doesn't reveal a fulfilled order. I'm pleased to accommodate your wishes. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2012
Subject: PMR1-14V problem
From: Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com>
Hi Bob A family member has recently installed an SD-8 alternator with the 14V regulator and OV protection module as per instructions. The total runtime of the engine with the alternator is about 15 hours. It has started spewing potting compound out of the gaps around the wires and keeps tripping the CB OV circuit. The potting compound has also blocked the voltage set point adjustment hole. Any ideas for fault tracing the wiring (so that the same doesn't happen to a replacement), or does this look like an internal manufacturing fault? Thanks Etienne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: PMR1-14V problem
> >Any ideas for fault tracing the wiring (so that the same doesn't >happen to a replacement), or does this look like an internal >manufacturing fault? Something is wrong inside. Get with B&C and see if they'd like to exchange it for a new one. They may be interested and willing to do a failure analysis. In any instance they need to be aware of the event. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2012
Subject: Re: PMR1-14V problem
From: Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com>
On Friday, 9 November 2012, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> > > >> Any ideas for fault tracing the wiring (so that the same doesn't happen >> to a replacement), or does this look like an internal manufacturing fault? >> > > Something is wrong inside. Get with B&C and see if > they'd like to exchange it for a new one. They may > be interested and willing to do a failure analysis. > In any instance they need to be aware of the event. > > > Bob . . . > > Will do so! Thanks Etienne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Support The Lists...
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Please make your Contribution today at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: New LOMU member . . .
At 08:47 PM 11/10/2012, you wrote: Re. Metcal You guys got my curiosity peeked... so I bid and won one on Ebay... $28 bucks. It just arrived and I took it up to the shop to try it out... Alas no tip. So I'll will see what I can find on ebay. Which model did you buy? Are you sure of which style of tip to acquire? Question: Most of the soldering I do is wire splice and wire to connectors...Tefzel 18-24 ga. single and shielded. Only occasional PCB assembly and/or repair. Most being SMT now but some through hole. What tips would you recommend? Here's a catalog of tip styles offered in the STTC series tips http://tinyurl.com/d2p28z9 Note the part numbers have a 'x' in them. Put a "1" in that space and you get a 700 degree tip, a "0" gets you a 600 degree tip. About any style tip will get you 'soldered up for general wiring tasks. I.e., if you need to solder something together, don't have an iron, and run to the local RS or hardware store to get one, what ever they have in stock has 99% probability of getting your task done. So the short answer is, "don't pass up a bargain on any tip style". Most of my bench work including SMD down to 1206 components is done with tips like 04, 25 or 37. The heaviest tasks like assembling an enclosure out of copper clad or putting a terminal on a fat wire calls for a 17 or 65. Installing a .025 or .050 pitch SMD calls for the smallest of tips like a 22. I've acquired these or similar in both 600 and 700 degree sizes. I've not seen much difference in outcome of the joint that I could attribute to tip temp. By the way, when installing new fine pitch integrated circuits on a board, I find that boards manufactured with the legacy tin/lead plating can be simply fluxed, the part held in place, and solder already in place simply pushed from the far end of the pad toward the pin to be soldered. No additional solder required, joints come out looking like an oven reflow job. I've only had to order specific tips and pay close to full freight (12 to 18 dollars) a couple times. Just ordered some 17's under that condition. All other tips were acquired in a what-you-see-is- what-you-get assortment of new/used tips. A little fist full of used tips can be VERY reasonable. Over the years, I think I've had perhaps one or two tips in bundles of used tips be inop. Good luck and welcome to LOMU (Loyal Order of Metcal Users). Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 11/05/12
At 08:47 PM 11/10/2012, you wrote: >Re. Metcal >You guys got my curiosity peeked... so I bid and won one on Ebay... >$28 bucks. It just arrived and I took it up to the shop to try it >out... Alas no tip. So I'll will see what I can find on ebay. > >Question: Most of the soldering I do is wire splice and wire to >connectors...Tefzel 18-24 ga. single and shielded. Only occasional >PCB assembly and/or repair. Most being SMT now but some through >hole. What tips would you recommend? If your system accepts the STTC tips, drop me your mailing address and I'll send you a 'handy' tip. It takes awhile to march through the process of buying off eBay and we can get you going in the mean time. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2012
From: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>
Subject: relay schematic
I'm sure this has been here before, yet I couldn't find exactly what I need in the archives. I'm looking for what I believe would be a DPDT relay controlled by two buttons on the stick. Specifically it is to control an In-flight adjust Ivo Prop. Thanks, Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2012
Subject: Re: New LOMU member . . .
From: Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com>
The Metcal is the SP200. Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a control function when the handpiece is holstered. Thanks for the tip on tips... Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my trusty Weller. Works fine most of the time. chris Re. Metcal > You guys got my curiosity peeked... so I bid and won one on Ebay... $28 > bucks. It just arrived and I took it up to the shop to try it out... Alas > no tip. So I'll will see what I can find on ebay. > > Which model did you buy? Are you sure of which > style of tip to acquire? > > > Question: Most of the soldering I do is wire splice and wire to > connectors...Tefzel 18-24 ga. single and shielded. Only occasional PCB > assembly and/or repair. Most being SMT now but some through hole. What > tips would you recommend? > > Here's a catalog of tip styles offered in the STTC > series tips > > http://tinyurl.com/d2p28z9 > > Note the part numbers have a 'x' in them. > Put a "1" in that space and you get a 700 > degree tip, a "0" gets you a 600 degree > tip. > > About any style tip will get you 'soldered > up for general wiring tasks. I.e., if you > need to solder something together, don't > have an iron, and run to the local RS or > hardware store to get one, what ever they > have in stock has 99% probability of getting > your task done. So the short answer is, > "don't pass up a bargain on any tip style". > > Most of my bench work including SMD down to > 1206 components is done with tips like 04, > 25 or 37. The heaviest tasks like assembling > an enclosure out of copper clad or putting a > terminal on a fat wire calls for a 17 or 65. > Installing a .025 or .050 pitch SMD calls for > the smallest of tips like a 22. > > I've acquired these or similar in both 600 and > 700 degree sizes. I've not seen much difference > in outcome of the joint that I could attribute > to tip temp. > > By the way, when installing new fine pitch > integrated circuits on a board, I find that > boards manufactured with the legacy tin/lead plating > can be simply fluxed, the part held in place, > and solder already in place simply pushed from > the far end of the pad toward the pin to be > soldered. No additional solder required, joints > come out looking like an oven reflow job. > > I've only had to order specific tips and pay > close to full freight (12 to 18 dollars) a couple > times. Just ordered some 17's under that condition. > All other tips were acquired in a what-you-see-is- > what-you-get assortment of new/used tips. A little > fist full of used tips can be VERY reasonable. > Over the years, I think I've had perhaps one or two > tips in bundles of used tips be inop. > > Good luck and welcome to LOMU (Loyal Order of > Metcal Users). > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2012
Subject: EBUS Circuit Protection
From: Paul Zimmer <paul.zimmer00(at)gmail.com>
I didn't include circuit protection for my EBUS, that is powered through a B&C Essential bus diode. The best explanation for not doing so is that it seemed unnecessary at the time I was designing the electrical system, and protection was not called for in the Z-12 drawing after which my electrical system in based. I am second guessing myself now, especially given the documentation that comes with the EBUS diode shows a breaker (not to exceed 25A). As far as I can reason, the only purpose for circuit protection would be to protect the diode itself. If the diode was not present and the bus bar that is the EBUS was simply an extension of the Main bus, circuit protection between the bus bars would not be called for. Would you recommend adding circuit protection between EBUS and main bus? Will the Essential Bus Diode open if its current rating is sufficiently exceeded, or will it allow current to pass (albeit in both directions)? It seems that circuit protection would be a good thing since you would have no good way to tell if the diode had been compromised (unless of course it opened after being sufficiently abused). Thanks in advance for your help. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A200 and Flightcom squeal.. *** UPDATE!! Bob Nuckolls?
Help?
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Nov 11, 2012
So, fellas, I figured I'd start a new thread about this, since I have narrowed the issue down. So, the A200 was bench tested, and tested out fine. The only item that seemed out of whack, was the side tone, which was set VERY high. I cleaned the terminals on the back of the radio prior to install. I tightened the radio into its tray firmly, and proceeded to test. The squeal seemed to be gone on 129.10, both with engine running, and without. This problem I BELIEVE is definitely a squelch problem. I transmitted the squeal, and while mid transmit, unplugged the mic cord. The squeal stopped immediately. Then I tried messing with different volume/squelch settings on the flightcom. To no avail, squeal still present.... Here is where it gets weird.... I pulled the mic away from my face, NO MORE SQUEAL! Well, very very little, and when I tapped the mic, it tried to come back, but then faded. So, I figured, let's try the tower. I turned my head looking over my right shoulder, and ZERO squeal. When I am facing straight ahead, and get it to squeal, while it is mid squeal, I cover the mic with my hand, and it deadens it considerably! IF this was wiring, here is how I disprove that theory.... The handheld transmits and receives PERFECTLY and gives 5/5 no matter what! Worked seamless. Flip back to the A200, and squeal! Keep in mind, the handheld is wired into the flightcom as well, and shares all of the same wiring as the A200! So, the final question........ Could this be as simple as the mic gain on the 200? With the engine running, there is zero interference from the engine. On BOTH radios. I think that this proves that the grounds are good, wiring is good and the flightcom is good. I still get the strobe POP when they fire, but I get that SAME pop in the Cessna 172M I fly! So, that is an acceptable noise for me. And since a certified very high dollar factory built airplane has strobe noise, I'm not too concerned about this one. It really is quiet. So...... MIC GAIN, OR NOT TO MIC GAIN ADJUST? Or try changing antennas? Thoughts? After changing the side tone, it is MUCH better. Still not acceptable, but it DID get better. I've read a lot of people suggesting to adjust the mic gains, with great results for them, yet others say it won't do a thing. It is DEFINITELY feedback like you'd hear from an amplifier too close to an electric guitar. I feel that I'm right on the edge of solving this problem.....I'm thinking, that if I can change antennas and that resolves it, it may be as simple as a faulty antenna, or maybe even not the right one? It's would be great to hear some feedback from the pro Bob Nuckolls. Thanks in advance!!! Chad Scriver -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387581#387581 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane
grounded!!
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Nov 11, 2012
So, fellas, I figured I'd start a new thread about this, since I have narrowed the issue down. So, the A200 was bench tested, and tested out fine. The only item that seemed out of whack, was the side tone, which was set VERY high. I cleaned the terminals on the back of the radio prior to install. I tightened the radio into its tray firmly, and proceeded to test. The squeal seemed to be gone on 129.10, both with engine running, and without. This problem I BELIEVE is definitely a squelch problem. I transmitted the squeal, and while mid transmit, unplugged the mic cord. The squeal stopped immediately. Then I tried messing with different volume/squelch settings on the flightcom. To no avail, squeal still present.... Here is where it gets weird.... I pulled the mic away from my face, NO MORE SQUEAL! Well, very very little, and when I tapped the mic, it tried to come back, but then faded. So, I figured, let's try the tower. I turned my head looking over my right shoulder, and ZERO squeal. When I am facing straight ahead, and get it to squeal, while it is mid squeal, I cover the mic with my hand, and it deadens it considerably! IF this was wiring, here is how I disprove that theory.... The handheld transmits and receives PERFECTLY and gives 5/5 no matter what! Worked seamless. Flip back to the A200, and squeal! Keep in mind, the handheld is wired into the flightcom as well, and shares all of the same wiring as the A200! So, the final question........ Could this be as simple as the mic gain on the 200? With the engine running, there is zero interference from the engine. On BOTH radios. I think that this proves that the grounds are good, wiring is good and the flightcom is good. I still get the strobe POP when they fire, but I get that SAME pop in the Cessna 172M I fly! So, that is an acceptable noise for me. And since a certified very high dollar factory built airplane has strobe noise, I'm not too concerned about this one. It really is quiet. So...... MIC GAIN, OR NOT TO MIC GAIN ADJUST? Or try changing antennas? Thoughts? After changing the side tone, it is MUCH better. Still not acceptable, but it DID get better. I've read a lot of people suggesting to adjust the mic gains, with great results for them, yet others say it won't do a thing. It is DEFINITELY feedback like you'd hear from an amplifier too close to an electric guitar. I feel that I'm right on the edge of solving this problem.....I'm thinking, that if I can change antennas and that resolves it, it may be as simple as a faulty antenna, or maybe even not the right one? It's would be great to hear some feedback from the pro Bob Nuckolls. Thanks in advance!!! Chad Scriver -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387582#387582 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's Your Contribution Used For?
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Date: Nov 12, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: New LOMU member . . .
At 05:11 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: >The Metcal is the SP200. Okay, those are a different series of tips so you'll have to flush those quail out of another bush http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a control function when the handpiece is holstered. Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the manual http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p >Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my >trusty Weller. Works fine most of the time. 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of any form of additional flux on electronics soldering. Many of the legacy products are VERY effective for structural soldering where the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one example of many. http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the surface and one of these pens will last you for years as long as you don't leave the cap off. You will find that the smallest surface mount joints can be made with no solder added to a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 like devices. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: A200 and Flightcom squeal
> > >It's would be great to hear some feedback from the pro Bob Nuckolls. When you can "make a difference" with the waving of hands, two possibilities pop up (there may be more but I'm on my first cup of coffee). The first suggests an acoustic coupling wherein the microphone is hearing audio leakage from under your headset seals . . . seems unlikely due to the noise cancelling designs for most aviation mic-headsets and the effectiveness of the seals. But I wouldn't throw that one out yet. The other is an RF interference condition. Hi levels of RF in the cockpit and in PARTICULAR from an AM transmitter (easily de-modulated by non-linearities in over-stressed circuitry) can 'paint' electronics with a stress they were never designed to withstand. Try putting a dummy load on the A200 antenna connector and see if noise goes away. Here's a DIY load you can build if you can't put your hands on one by some other means. http://tinyurl.com/cchp3pf If the noise goes away, then inspection of the antenna system is indicated. Do an SWR check on the A200 antenna, alternatively you can move the dummy load to the far end of the coax and see if the noise is still gone. The most common sources of hi level cockpit radiation are the byproduct of either antenna proximity combined with low coupling losses (plastic airplane) -OR- bad feedline where the #1 culprit in my experience was a shield termination pulling out of the clamp on a old nut-style UG-88 connector. A a-placing-of-hands-healing by grabbing the mic boom suggests that demodulation of the AM transmitter signal is taking place in the electronics that conditions the signal from modern electret microphone cartridges to emulate the legacy aviation carbon microphone. (A@$%!#@$%!! why is it that the rest of the world talks to each other on digital spread spectrum, or FM supported by electronics having no vestige of WWII technologies . . . while aviation still struggles with these system integration alligators? A topic for another time). Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2012
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: EBUS Circuit Protection
At 07:55 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: I didn't include circuit protection for my EBUS, that is powered through a B&C Essential bus diode. The best explanation for not doing so is that it seemed unnecessary at the time I was designing the electrical system, and protection was not called for in the Z-12 drawing after which my electrical system in based. I am second guessing myself now, especially given the documentation that comes with the EBUS diode shows a breaker (not to exceed 25A). As far as I can reason, the only purpose for circuit protection would be to protect the diode itself. If the diode was not present and the bus bar that is the EBUS was simply an extension of the Main bus, circuit protection between the bus bars would not be called for. Would you recommend adding circuit protection between EBUS and main bus? Will the Essential Bus Diode open if its current rating is sufficiently exceeded, or will it allow current to pass (albeit in both directions)? It seems that circuit protection would be a good thing since you would have no good way to tell if the diode had been compromised (unless of course it opened after being sufficiently abused). Thanks in advance for your help. The legacy philosophy for circuit protection in airplanes says fuses and breakers are to prevent fire/smoke from wires. That doesn't mean that some system designer/integrator might deduce an alternate or supplemental requirement for a particular style and placement of protection. An example would be the use of a circuit breaker upstream of a crowbar ov module where the breaker not only protects wires, it's a component of a rapid response disconnect for alternator field power. In light of these assertions, the need for wire protection in the e-bus normal feed path is predicated on lengths of wires. The legacy philosophy for leaving protection out is predicated on a length of the at-risk path. The rule of thumb which guided such decisions at my places of employment was that path length of 6" or less does not require protection. It has always been my assumption that an e-bus and main bus structure would be located very close to each other and the diode wires were short. Perhaps I should have put the "6 inches or less" flag (*) on those wires. Power diodes almost always fail shorted. An easy test during pre-flight is to close the alternate feed path switch to power up for getting your ATIS or clearance delivery . . . or just to test the alternate path switch. If the diode is shorted, the whole panel will light up . . . not just e-bus appliances. I've seen diodes fail open, but never in the passive sense that would tend to hide their condition from external inspection. These diodes literally exploded leaving two wire stubs waving in the breeze. The fat diode used for the normal feed path isolation is not likely to fail with such fanfare . . . which leaves shorting as the only, easily tested risk. The short answer to your question is "no" assuming the wires are short. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2012
Bob.... Thanks for the input. The audio leakage from the headsets is, in my opinion almost impossible, stricktly due to the fact they fit so well, and are nicely broken in. The other part that super confuses me is that the handheld is wired into the system exactly the same as the A200, with the only variable being a different antenna. So, you can see how it points me to the A200's settings of mic gain/sidetone and or antenna issues. I've been told to try and simply swap the antenna connections and try this first. Make sense? I "think" I have an SWR meter still from my CB radio days around somewhere.... I believe. I'll look later tonight. Bob, what does your gut tell you about this? Antenna? Simple adjustments? I know that when we turned the sidetone down to factory settings, the squeal was nowhere near as bad, but still no clear transmission. Just less invasive. When I pulled the mic jack mid transmit, the squeal disappeared immediately. Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387692#387692 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting-
plane grounded!!
Date: Nov 12, 2012
Here is a wild shot at the problem and it has to do with bone conduction, etc.....!! You mentioned that the side tone was very high and that moving the mike away from your mouth stopped the problem. Audio energy has a conductive path via the jaw bones and is the method of use by some specialty mikes and audio systems. Yours is not one of these techniques but, it only proves that audio bone conduction certainly works. I would turn the side tone down to the lowest level and see it that halts the problem. My guess is that the sidetone is very high, conducts via your skull, then down your jaw bone and mouth and maybe still strong enough to broadcast into the mike which is usually very close if not contacting your mouth. Just a wild guess as to the problem..... Dave ___________________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:17 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane grounded!! > > So, fellas, > > I figured I'd start a new thread about this, since I have narrowed the > issue down. > > So, the A200 was bench tested, and tested out fine. The only item that > seemed out of whack, was the side tone, which was set VERY high. I cleaned > the terminals on the back of the radio prior to install. I tightened the > radio into its tray firmly, and proceeded to test. The squeal seemed to be > gone on 129.10, both with engine running, and without. This problem I > BELIEVE is definitely a squelch problem. I transmitted the squeal, and > while mid transmit, unplugged the mic cord. The squeal stopped > immediately. Then I tried messing with different volume/squelch settings > on the flightcom. To no avail, squeal still present.... > > Here is where it gets weird.... I pulled the mic away from my face, NO > MORE SQUEAL! Well, very very little, and when I tapped the mic, it tried > to come back, but then faded. So, I figured, let's try the tower. I turned > my head looking over my right shoulder, and ZERO squeal. When I am facing > straight ahead, and get it to squeal, while it is mid squeal, I cover the > mic with my hand, and it deadens it considerably! > > IF this was wiring, here is how I disprove that theory.... > > The handheld transmits and receives PERFECTLY and gives 5/5 no matter > what! Worked seamless. Flip back to the A200, and squeal! Keep in mind, > the handheld is wired into the flightcom as well, and shares all of the > same wiring as the A200! So, the final question........ Could this be as > simple as the mic gain on the 200? With the engine running, there is zero > interference from the engine. On BOTH radios. I think that this proves > that the grounds are good, wiring is good and the flightcom is good. I > still get the strobe POP when they fire, but I get that SAME pop in the > Cessna 172M I fly! So, that is an acceptable noise for me. And since a > certified very high dollar factory built airplane has strobe noise, I'm > not too concerned about this one. It really is quiet. So...... MIC GAIN, > OR NOT TO MIC GAIN ADJUST? Or try changing antennas? Thoughts? After > changing the side tone, it is MUCH better. Still not acceptable, but it > DID get better. I've read a lot of people suggesting to a! > djust the mic gains, with great results for them, yet others say it won't > do a thing. It is DEFINITELY feedback like you'd hear from an amplifier > too close to an electric guitar. > > I feel that I'm right on the edge of solving this problem.....I'm > thinking, that if I can change antennas and that resolves it, it may be as > simple as a faulty antenna, or maybe even not the right one? > > It's would be great to hear some feedback from the pro Bob Nuckolls. > > > Thanks in advance!!! > > Chad Scriver > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387582#387582 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2012
Subject: Re: New LOMU member . . .
From: Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com>
Bob... The solder paste is in the .5 cc syringes etc. http://tinyurl.com/dyjlsrw I'll try the flux pen as well... I haven't been able to consistently get re-flow and good wetting as my trust Weller EC100 tip sometimes won't release the solder. Acts as if the surface tension on the solder melt wont't break. I'm hoping this new Metcal will improve this characteristic. I borrowed a tip from one of the older Metcal stations at work and will try it out. Thanks for your insights. chris * * * * > > The Metcal is the SP200. >> > > Okay, those are a different series of tips so > you'll have to flush those quail out of another > bush > > http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s > > > Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a > control function when the handpiece is holstered. > > Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the > manual > > http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p > > > Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my trusty >> Weller. Works fine most of the time. >> > > 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the > blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of > any form of additional flux on electronics > soldering. Many of the legacy products are > VERY effective for structural soldering where > the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but > are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. > > Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one > example of many. > > http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh > > It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the > surface and one of these pens will last you for > years as long as you don't leave the cap off. > > You will find that the smallest surface mount > joints can be made with no solder added to > a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 > like devices. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane
grounded!!
From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2012
Dave..... This actually crossed my mind right away. Just wasn't sure, and thought it might be a reach. Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387705#387705 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New LOMU member . . .
From: Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2012
I think I'm also a new LOMU member... Just bought a second hand SP200 on ebay, had to pay up ($70) to get a 230VAC version and then some more for shipping to Italy (and will have to pay import duties, levy and 21% sales tax because the Italian customs are basically thieves), but I'm looking forward to it! Also ordered the other accessories (holder, a few tips) and will add a flux pen too. Sacha On 12/nov/2012, at 10:40, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > At 05:11 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: >> The Metcal is the SP200. > > Okay, those are a different series of tips so > you'll have to flush those quail out of another > bush > > http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s > > Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a control function when the handpiece is holstered. > > Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the > manual > > http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p > > >> Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my trusty Weller. Works fine most of the time. > > 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the > blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of > any form of additional flux on electronics > soldering. Many of the legacy products are > VERY effective for structural soldering where > the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but > are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. > > Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one > example of many. > > http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh > > It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the > surface and one of these pens will last you for > years as long as you don't leave the cap off. > > You will find that the smallest surface mount > joints can be made with no solder added to > a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 > like devices. > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New LOMU member . . .
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 12, 2012
> Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a > control function when the handpiece is holstered. > > Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the > manual The stand has a big magnet in it that puts the station into "Sleep Mode", which lowers the temperature but does not turn the power off. This reduces heat-up time to a few seconds. See: www.okinternational.com/binary/articles/AutosleepWorkstands.pdf -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387718#387718 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2012
Subject: Re: New LOMU member . . .
From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>
It looks like I'll have to wait a few weeks to get one for myself, after the rest of the aeroelectric list members quit running up the ebay prices:) On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Sacha wrote: > > I think I'm also a new LOMU member... Just bought a second hand SP200 on ebay, had to pay up ($70) to get a 230VAC version and then some more for shipping to Italy (and will have to pay import duties, levy and 21% sales tax because the Italian customs are basically thieves), but I'm looking forward to it! Also ordered the other accessories (holder, a few tips) and will add a flux pen too. > > Sacha > > > On 12/nov/2012, at 10:40, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > >> >> At 05:11 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: >>> The Metcal is the SP200. >> >> Okay, those are a different series of tips so >> you'll have to flush those quail out of another >> bush >> >> http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s >> >> Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a control function when the handpiece is holstered. >> >> Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the >> manual >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p >> >> >>> Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my trusty Weller. Works fine most of the time. >> >> 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the >> blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of >> any form of additional flux on electronics >> soldering. Many of the legacy products are >> VERY effective for structural soldering where >> the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but >> are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. >> >> Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one >> example of many. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh >> >> It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the >> surface and one of these pens will last you for >> years as long as you don't leave the cap off. >> >> You will find that the smallest surface mount >> joints can be made with no solder added to >> a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 >> like devices. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2012
Subject: Re: New LOMU member . . .
From: Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com>
*http://tinyurl.com/adkgqow* * * *check it out...* * * *...chris * * * * * On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Jared Yates wrote: > > > > It looks like I'll have to wait a few weeks to get one for myself, > after the rest of the aeroelectric list members quit running up the > ebay prices:) > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Sacha wrote: > > > > I think I'm also a new LOMU member... Just bought a second hand SP200 on > ebay, had to pay up ($70) to get a 230VAC version and then some more for > shipping to Italy (and will have to pay import duties, levy and 21% sales > tax because the Italian customs are basically thieves), but I'm looking > forward to it! Also ordered the other accessories (holder, a few tips) and > will add a flux pen too. > > > > Sacha > > > > > > On 12/nov/2012, at 10:40, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < > nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > > nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> > >> > >> At 05:11 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: > >>> The Metcal is the SP200. > >> > >> Okay, those are a different series of tips so > >> you'll have to flush those quail out of another > >> bush > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s > >> > >> Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a > control function when the handpiece is holstered. > >> > >> Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the > >> manual > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p > >> > >> > >>> Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my > trusty Weller. Works fine most of the time. > >> > >> 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the > >> blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of > >> any form of additional flux on electronics > >> soldering. Many of the legacy products are > >> VERY effective for structural soldering where > >> the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but > >> are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. > >> > >> Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one > >> example of many. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh > >> > >> It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the > >> surface and one of these pens will last you for > >> years as long as you don't leave the cap off. > >> > >> You will find that the smallest surface mount > >> joints can be made with no solder added to > >> a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 > >> like devices. > >> > >> > >> Bob . . . > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New LOMU member . . .
From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>
Date: Nov 13, 2012
That one used to be on my watch list... On Nov 12, 2012, at 22:53, Christopher Cee Stone wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/adkgqow > > check it out... > > ...chris > > > > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Jared Yates wrote: m> >> >> It looks like I'll have to wait a few weeks to get one for myself, >> after the rest of the aeroelectric list members quit running up the >> ebay prices:) >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Sacha wrote: >> > >> > I think I'm also a new LOMU member... Just bought a second hand SP200 o n ebay, had to pay up ($70) to get a 230VAC version and then some more for s hipping to Italy (and will have to pay import duties, levy and 21% sales tax because the Italian customs are basically thieves), but I'm looking forward to it! Also ordered the other accessories (holder, a few tips) and will add a flux pen too. >> > >> > Sacha >> > >> > >> > On 12/nov/2012, at 10:40, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroe lectric.com> wrote: >> > ckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> >> >> >> >> At 05:11 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: >> >>> The Metcal is the SP200. >> >> >> >> Okay, those are a different series of tips so >> >> you'll have to flush those quail out of another >> >> bush >> >> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s >> >> >> >> Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a co ntrol function when the handpiece is holstered. >> >> >> >> Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the >> >> manual >> >> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p >> >> >> >> >> >>> Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my tr usty Weller. Works fine most of the time. >> >> >> >> 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the >> >> blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of >> >> any form of additional flux on electronics >> >> soldering. Many of the legacy products are >> >> VERY effective for structural soldering where >> >> the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but >> >> are exceedingly conductive and corrosive.


October 16, 2012 - November 14, 2012

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