AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ne
April 19, 2016 - May 22, 2016
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | infow <infow(at)shaw.ca> |
I purchased 2 on ebay!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-3-Pin-Internal-Desktop-Computer-CPU-Case-Cooling-C
ooler-Silent-Fan-For-PC-/311442380353?hash=item4883699641:g:MS8AAOSw4SlV8V4l#h
t_7600wt_1270
They have various sizes and flows
Has 3 pin connector
120x120
1800rpm
draws 0.3a
Ron
| Hello John
|
|
| I bought one similar to those, but the problem is that it has a 4-
| pin computer connector, and I don't know how to wire it.
|
| After some research, I came to the conclusion that one of the wires
| is to control the fan, and that control is done through the
| motherboards of the computer, which is not the case for us.
|
|
| That's the reason why I am asking for specific fans that other
| builders have successfully used, and for how to wire them.
|
|
| Carlos
|
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Tipton
| Sent: tera-feira, 19 de Abril de 2016 14:49
| To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fans
|
|
|
| -->
|
|
| Hi Carlos
|
|
| I've been thinking along similar lines: how about a computer CPU
| cooling fans 12v:
|
|
| http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313
| .TR0.TRC0.H0.Xcpu+cooling+fans+12v.TRS0&_nkw=cpu+cooling+fans+12v&_sac
| at=0
|
|
| Regards
|
|
| John
|
|
| Sent from my iPad
|
|
| ----x--O--x----
|
|
|| On 19 Apr 2016, at 01:33 pm, Carlos Trigo
|| wrote:
||
||
||
|| -->
||
||
|| Guys
||
||
|| I am looking for cooling fans to install in my aircraft
|| dashboard, to extract heated air behind the avionics of the
|| instrument panel and help defrost the windshield.
||
||
|| I would welcome some information about type and brand of fans,
|| source, and wiring information.
||
||
|| Thanks
||
|| Carlos
|
|
| www.buildersbooks.com
|
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| List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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| http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> |
Stein is correct. If you'd like to know more about how the 4 wire [and the 3 wire
variants as well] work and what the wires are used for, see the link below.
http://pcbheaven.com/wikipages/How_PC_Fans_Work/
Charlie
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/19/16, Stein Bruch wrote:
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fans
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2016, 11:36 AM
Most of the computer fans (at least
the ones we sell for less than $10) are simple to wire
because they typically have colored wires.red is
always power, black is always ground, and the others are
various rpm/sense wires that you dont need to use.
No need to run them through a thermostat, a simple switch
will suffice. We also stock the little
grates that go over them to direct the air
appropriately (living in snow country we learn a thing or
two about defrosting).
Dont make it more complicated
than it needs to be keep it simple.
Cheers,Stein
snipped
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cooling fans |
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
I picked up the fans from Directron.com. They have a strange or
non-existent part numbering system but the brand seems to be 'PAPST' and
this might be the exact part here: Directron Fan.
I paid $15 in 2009... still seems to be same price if the 12cm fan is
the same part.
I bought 2 black steel mesh filters for $1.99/ea from the same place.
Lot's of computer components at Directron but otherwise have no
experience with them.
Wired them to be always on, no switch, no controls. My 3 EFISs power-on
with my airplane master as well. No avionics master - only component
switches and if a component doesn't have an on/off like the GRTs, they
stay on. Keeping it simple and robust...
On 4/19/2016 11:04 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Hi Bill W
>
> Please tell me what is the part# of the fans you used, or at least the
> brand and some characteristics.
>
> And where did you but them.
>
> And also how did you wire them?
>
> Directly, or with switch, or through a thermostat controller?
>
> Thanks
>
> Carlos
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Bill Watson
> *Sent:* tera-feira, 19 de Abril de 2016 15:49
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fans
>
> I have a 2008 vintage stack (G430, SL30, GRT HXs, PS-audio, G327, etc)
> that has little supplemental cooling specified in the doc. I added
> two muffin fans that blow onto the windscreen in my RV10. No ducts or
> plenums.
>
> My sense is that vent holes alone would suffice in keeping excessive
> heat building up under the panel. However the muffin fans work well
> as defrosters on the windscreen. Not for ice but for condensation
> that sometimes occurs in early morning departures and when cloud
> busting. I'm glad they are in place for that reason alone.
>
> On 4/19/2016 9:59 AM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> What kind of radio equipment are you installing? Modern stuff is
> not a significant source of heat so it might be much work for
> minimal benefit.
>
> Bill Hunter
>
> On Apr 19, 2016 9:56 AM, "John Tipton" > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Hi Carlos
>
> I've been thinking along similar lines: how about a computer CPU
> cooling fans 12v:
>
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xcpu+cooling+fans+12v.TRS0&_nkw=cpu+cooling+fans+12v&_sacat=0
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ----x--O--x----
>
> > On 19 Apr 2016, at 01:33 pm, Carlos Trigo > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Guys
> >
> > I am looking for cooling fans to install in my aircraft
> dashboard, to extract heated air behind the avionics of the
> instrument panel and help defrost the windshield.
> >
> > I would welcome some information about type and brand of fans,
> source, and wiring information.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cooling fans |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
Le 19/04/2016 17:16, B Tomm a crit :
> I have two muffin fans mounted under the glareshield to push "warm" up
> onto the windscreen. I consider the main purpose is a defogger when
> your first few breaths in the cockpit on a cold morning fog up the
> windshield.
Hi all,
Here is what we did for the same purpose :
http://contrails.free.fr/cellule_defog_en.php
I must confess that those muffin fans seemed like a good idea at first,
but the truth is they don't blow that much.
Nevertheless, our defogging system works as expected although it is a
bit on the asthmatic side...
We need it on the ground only since as soon as the airplane is airborne,
the fog quickly disappears.
FWIW
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Back Online |
Dear Listers,
The Matronics Web server lost a critical system hard drive yesterday 4/18/2016.
I have been working feverishly for the last 24 hours to repair the system and
get the Matronics Forums and other web-based resources back online.
Email services were not impacted in anyway.
back online and all resources were successfully restored from a backup.
My apologies for the down time.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email and Forum Admin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EDN Article on EMC Troubleshooting |
| From: | Matt Prather <mapratherid(at)gmail.com> |
This series of articles reminds me of some of Mr. Nuckolls' methods of
debugging aeroelectric problems - like using an AM radio as a "sniffer":
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4378152/An-EMC-Troubleshooting-Kit--Part-1a-Emissions-
Cheers,
Matt-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
Stein
I am not finding any computer fans in your website.
Can you please tell where they are in your online store?
Carlos
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein
Bruch
Sent: ter=E7a-feira, 19 de Abril de 2016 16:36
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fans
Most of the computer fans (at least the ones we sell for less than $10) are
simple to wire because they typically have colored wires=85.red is always
power, black is always ground, and the others are various rpm/sense wires
that you don=92t need to use. No need to run them through a thermostat, a
simple switch will suffice. We also stock the little =93grates=94 that go
over
them to direct the air appropriately (living in snow country we learn a
thing or two about defrosting).
Don=92t make it more complicated than it needs to be ' keep it simple.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 10:05 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fans
Hello John
I bought one similar to those, but the problem is that it has a 4-pin
computer connector, and I don=92t know how to wire it.
After some research, I came to the conclusion that one of the wires is to
control the fan, and that control is done through the motherboards of the
computer, which is not the case for us.
That=92s the reason why I am asking for specific fans that other builders h
ave
successfully used, and for how to wire them.
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Tipton
Sent: ter=E7a-feira, 19 de Abril de 2016 14:49
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fans
--> < jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>
Hi Carlos
I've been thinking along similar lines: how about a computer CPU cooling
fans 12v:
<http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313
=2ETR0.
TRC0.H0.Xcpu+cooling+fans+12v.TRS0&_nkw=cpu+cooling+fans+12v&_sacat=0>
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313.
TR0.T
RC0.H0.Xcpu+cooling+fans+12v.TRS0&_nkw=cpu+cooling+fans+12v&_sacat=0
Regards
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 19 Apr 2016, at 01:33 pm, Carlos Trigo <
trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>
> --> < trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
>
> Guys
>
> I am looking for cooling fans to install in my aircraft dashboard, to
extract heated air behind the avionics of the instrument panel and help
defrost the windshield.
>
> I would welcome some information about type and brand of fans, source, an
d
wiring information.
>
> Thanks
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
<http://www.buildersbooks.com> www.buildersbooks.com
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matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Powering the EFIS system |
Group
I am beginning to install the EFIS G3X system from GARMIN in the RV-10, and
I have to put power into (not more not less than) 12 devices (2 Display
units, 2 ADAHRS, 1 engine module, 3 autopilot servos and so on).
In some devices there are 2 independent power inputs.
I am trying to figure out which will be the best architecture for the power
circuits to these 12 devices.
I know that some of you are against the single Avionics switch, and I am
leaning to agree, not including that single point of failure, but how about
the distribution system?
I am not searching for opinions on the breaker or fuses discussion, just to
know what other people did or recommend to do with busses and circuits.
I should add that I have a dual battery /dual alternator energy system.
All good suggestions welcome!
Thanks
Carlos
---
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de v=C3=ADrus pelo software antiv=C3
=ADrus Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system |
| From: | Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> |
Carlos,
The lid is off the can of worms. This should be interesting! I've found t
hat coating my wires in chromate primer has benefits too. ;)
All seriousness, though I can see people breaking out the flame throwers alr
eady, what does your main buss look like? Single Alt / Single Battery? Du
al alt (hot/standby) single battery, etc....
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 19, 2016, at 5:36 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Group
>
> I am beginning to install the EFIS G3X system from GARMIN in the RV-10, an
d I have to put power into (not more not less than) 12 devices (2 Display un
its, 2 ADAHRS, 1 engine module, 3 autopilot servos and so on).
> In some devices there are 2 independent power inputs.
>
> I am trying to figure out which will be the best architecture for the powe
r circuits to these 12 devices.
> I know that some of you are against the single Avionics switch, and I am l
eaning to agree, not including that single point of failure, but how about t
he distribution system?
> I am not searching for opinions on the breaker or fuses discussion, just t
o know what other people did or recommend to do with busses and circuits.
>
> I should add that I have a dual battery /dual alternator energy system.
> All good suggestions welcome!
>
> Thanks
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sem v=C3=ADrus. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Matronics Web Server Back Online |
Matt!!!
You're back!
:D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455237#455237
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EDN Article on EMC Troubleshooting |
At 03:44 PM 4/19/2016, you wrote:
>This series of articles reminds me of some of Mr. Nuckolls' methods
>of debugging aeroelectric problems - like using an AM radio as a "sniffer":
>
><http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4378152/An-EMC-Troubleshooting-Kit--Part-1a-Emissions->http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4378152/An-EMC-Troubleshooting-Kit--Part-1a-Emissions-
>
>
>Cheers,
>Matt-
Thanks for the heads-up! I've heard of this guy
but the Raytheon-Beech organization liked the Kimmle and
Gherke RF guru twins. Took a two day seminar from
Gherke hisself about 20 years ago. Wyatt seems
like a real hammer-n-tongs sunk-werkser kind of
guy . . . I've gathered up his stuff and added it to my
library.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system |
At 06:26 PM 4/19/2016, you wrote:
>Carlos,
>
>The lid is off the can of worms. This should be interesting! I've
>found that coating my wires in chromate primer has benefits too. ;)
>
>All seriousness, though I can see people breaking out the flame
>throwers already, what does your main buss look like? Single Alt /
>Single Battery? Dual alt (hot/standby) single battery, etc....
>
>Phil
I would start in the same place we do with
any new TC design. Fill out the load analysis
sheets and partition the loads by flight
modes. What are your energy sources and
what size are they?
What is the worst case scenario for
comfortable continuation of flight
in the en-route mode that is most
conservative of energy available?
The task starts with little buckets
of loads and little buckets of energy.
Figure out what goes in each bucket.
The architecture along with your endurance
operations check-list will fall out
of the results of that study.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List: Powering the EFIS system |
At 10:14 PM 4/19/2016, you wrote:
>At 06:26 PM 4/19/2016, you wrote:
>>Carlos,
>>
>>The lid is off the can of worms. This should be
>>interesting! I've found that coating my wires in chromate primer
>>has benefits too. ;)
>>
>>All seriousness, though I can see people breaking out the flame
>>throwers already, what does your main buss look like? Single Alt
>>/ Single Battery? Dual alt (hot/standby) single battery, etc....
>>
>>Phil
Carlos, let's consider anohter approach . . .
Start with Figure Z-13/8. Make up a list
of loads for each of the 3 busses; battery,
main and endurance. Get all the stuff 'hooked
up' . . . then let's see what conditions
exist that don't meet your design goals.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | breaker size for AeroLED |
| From: | Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com> |
I Just got off the phone wit the Tec. guy at Aeroled. I am installing
there NS strobe lights that have two nav. strobes and a suntail in the
rear. Each device uses up 5 amp peak when the strobes fire. Aero LED
recommends using a 3 conductor 20AWG Shielded wire to connect them all
together and for power.
The way they recommend wiring the whole system is this:
use use the 20 awg wires for power to the strobe and nav. The nav. uses
very little so the 20AWG will handle the current. Each Strobe unit ( there
will be three) can pull up to 5 amps each when they fire. They use to pull
3.5, but the newer version has been increase to 5 amps. Here is my problem.
If you run all the strobes to a single switch and breaker as they show in
their drawing you will need a 15 amp breaker so it will not trip when when
all three fire at the same time. If all the long runs of the wire to each
wing tip and tail are using 20awg shielded wire they could , in theory not
trip the breaker until there where 15 + amps. This seems to violate the
Idea of sizing the breaker to protect the wire. Of course I will use a
larger wire from the breaker and switch but that still leaves 20awg to the
lights. Aero also now recommends using the Shield as the return ground to
the main grounding point rather than a Local ground. This is important for
the magnetometer which in my case is in the tail.
Any comments would be appreciated
Mike Laz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
If AeroLED does not recommend a certain size breaker, then you have options.
Use 18 awg with a 10 amp breaker.
Use 20 awg with a 7.5 amp breaker.
Use 20 awg with 3 fuses, 5 amps each.
Circuit breakers require a certain amount of time to trip. Even though it is possible
for all three strobes to fire simultaneously, it is not likely that the
highest possible current will be flowing long enough to trip a breaker. Fuses
blow quicker than breakers.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455287#455287
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The following is from AeroLED website:
Below current values are for each individual light:
Position Input Current: 0.4A at 14V
Strobe Average Current: 0.8A at 14V
Strobe Peak Current: 5.0A at 14V for 0.2 seconds
And so, (0.4A + 0.8A) x 3 = 3.6 Amps
A 5 amp breaker should handle that.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455288#455288
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
At 06:58 AM 4/21/2016, you wrote:
>I Just got off the phone wit the Tec. guy at
>Aeroled.=C2 I am installing there NS strobe
>lights that have=C2 two nav. strobes and a
>suntail in the rear.=C2 Each device uses up 5 amp
>peak when the strobes fire.=C2 Aero LED
>recommends using a 3 conductor 20AWG Shielded
>wire to connect them all together and for power.
>
>
>The way they recommend wiring the whole system is this:
>
>use the 20 awg wires for power to the strobe and
>nav.=C2 The nav. uses very little so the 20AWG
>will handle the current.=C2 Each Strobe unit (
>there will be three) can pull up to 5 amps each
>when they fire.=C2 They use to pull 3.5, but the
>newer version has been increase to 5 amps. Here is my problem.
>
>If you run all the strobes to a single switch
>and breaker as they show in their drawing you
>will need a 15 amp breaker so it will not trip
>when when all three fire at the same time. If
>all the long runs of the wire to each wing tip
>and tail are using 20awg shielded wire they
>could , in theory not trip the breaker until
>there where 15 + amps.=C2 This seems to violate
>the Idea of sizing the breaker to protect the wire.
The breakers we use are actuated by
a temperature rise in a heater . . .
Emacs!
This event takes TIME . . . here's the typical
trip resonse for a 5A breaker . . .
Emacs!
15A would be a 3x overload on the breaker. The
data above suggests that it would take 0.5 to
3.0 seconds for a 15A stress to open the breaker
at room temperature.
I would bet that you could 'protect' your system
with a 5A breaker. Give it a try and report back
to us. The worst case scenario says you'll need
to upsize to a 7A breaker but certainly no larger.
The shielding in this system offers no observable
benefits in your airplane. The wires within the
strobe system are neither potential victims, nor are
they strong antagonists for ELECTROSTATIC coupled
events. Further, the twisting of the wires as they
pass next to a magnetometer is all the protection
you need for what is an exceedingly weak interference
potential for MAGNETIC coupling . . . and shielding
has NO effect on magnetic coupling.
A prop-synchronizer I proposed to Beech back about
1978 sensed the firing of a spark plug by means
of an inductive pickup on the SHIELDED plug wire.
>=C2 Of course I will use a larger wire from the
>breaker and switch but that still leaves 20awg
>to the lights.=C2 Aero also now recommends using
>the Shield as the return ground to the main
>grounding point rather than a Local
>ground.=C2 This is important for the
>magnetometer=C2 which in my case is in the tail.
I went to their website to see if I could
download the installation manual . . . all I
found was product photos.
>Any comments would be appreciated
If that ever nuisance trips, I'll buy you
a Big Mac and a cup of coffee . . . In the
mean time, I'll drop them a note to see
if they'll send me a system to bench test
from which we'll have MEASURED performance
data from which to make more rational decisions
for breaker sizing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ARGOLDMAN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
If you are using fuses, use slo-blow
Rich
In a message dated 4/21/2016 7:09:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
fransew(at)gmail.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253"
If AeroLED does not recommend a certain size breaker, then you have
options.
Use 18 awg with a 10 amp breaker.
Use 20 awg with a 7.5 amp breaker.
Use 20 awg with 3 fuses, 5 amps each.
Circuit breakers require a certain amount of time to trip. Even though it
is possible for all three strobes to fire simultaneously, it is not likely
that the highest possible current will be flowing long enough to trip a
breaker. Fuses blow quicker than breakers.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455287#455287
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
| From: | Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks so much Bob.
There are reported problems with the Magnetometer test when their Suntail
light is on . the Gramin unit will not pass the test when the light is
grounded locally at the tail. When they switched to using the shield for
the ground it passed. So that is where this all came from. One of the
Guys at Stein air actually had this problem in his 8 , so its not some
random builder Idea. The Garmin G3X manual wants that Magnetometer
installed 10 ft from any steel , which is impossible on a RV8. The rear
location seems to work just fine.
I agree that the 15 amp breaker is way overkill, but that,s what they told
me. If you go to there website and click on the actual lights it will send
you to the page that has the install documents. It actually does not show
the shield grounding the way they recommend but does have the breaker
info. Which is actually wrong since they have now upgraded to a 5 amp peak
with their latest units.
Thanks for all your help. I decided to do all my own wiring of the Garmin
so I would understand what was going on. It has been a great learning
experience.
If you are at Oshkosh this year , please stop buy the Repair Barn. I
volunteer the entire show and would like to meet you. Lunch would be on me
.
Mike
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 06:58 AM 4/21/2016, you wrote:
>
> I Just got off the phone wit the Tec. guy at Aeroled.=C3=82 I am install
ing
> there NS strobe lights that have=C3=82 two nav. strobes and a suntail in
the
> rear.=C3=82 Each device uses up 5 amp peak when the strobes fire.=C3=82
Aero LED
> recommends using a 3 conductor 20AWG Shielded wire to connect them all
> together and for power.
>
>
> The way they recommend wiring the whole system is this:
>
> use the 20 awg wires for power to the strobe and nav.=C3=82 The nav. use
s very
> little so the 20AWG will handle the current.=C3=82 Each Strobe unit ( th
ere
> will be three) can pull up to 5 amps each when they fire.=C3=82 They use
to
> pull 3.5, but the newer version has been increase to 5 amps. Here is my
> problem.
>
> If you run all the strobes to a single switch and breaker as they show in
> their drawing you will need a 15 amp breaker so it will not trip when whe
n
> all three fire at the same time. If all the long runs of the wire to each
> wing tip and tail are using 20awg shielded wire they could , in theory no
t
> trip the breaker until there where 15 + amps.=C3=82 This seems to violat
e the
> Idea of sizing the breaker to protect the wire.
>
>
> The breakers we use are actuated by
> a temperature rise in a heater . . .
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> This event takes TIME . . . here's the typical
> trip resonse for a 5A breaker . . .
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> 15A would be a 3x overload on the breaker. The
> data above suggests that it would take 0.5 to
> 3.0 seconds for a 15A stress to open the breaker
> at room temperature.
>
> I would bet that you could 'protect' your system
> with a 5A breaker. Give it a try and report back
> to us. The worst case scenario says you'll need
> to upsize to a 7A breaker but certainly no larger.
>
> The shielding in this system offers no observable
> benefits in your airplane. The wires within the
> strobe system are neither potential victims, nor are
> they strong antagonists for ELECTROSTATIC coupled
> events. Further, the twisting of the wires as they
> pass next to a magnetometer is all the protection
> you need for what is an exceedingly weak interference
> potential for MAGNETIC coupling . . . and shielding
> has NO effect on magnetic coupling.
>
> A prop-synchronizer I proposed to Beech back about
> 1978 sensed the firing of a spark plug by means
> of an inductive pickup on the SHIELDED plug wire.
>
>
> =C3=82 Of course I will use a larger wire from the breaker and switch bu
t that
> still leaves 20awg to the lights.=C3=82 Aero also now recommends using t
he
> Shield as the return ground to the main grounding point rather than a Loc
al
> ground.=C3=82 This is important for the magnetometer=C3=82 which in my
case is in
> the tail.
>
>
> I went to their website to see if I could
> download the installation manual . . . all I
> found was product photos.
>
>
> Any comments would be appreciated
>
>
> If that ever nuisance trips, I'll buy you
> a Big Mac and a cup of coffee . . . In the
> mean time, I'll drop them a note to see
> if they'll send me a system to bench test
> from which we'll have MEASURED performance
> data from which to make more rational decisions
> for breaker sizing.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
| From: | William DeLacey <whd721(at)msn.com> |
I am not an Elec expert, I do have the AeroLeds on my RV9A.
As I read the specs, each of the three AeroLeds needs 5 amp for .2 sec. In my
installation, the lights are Synced and the lights never fire at the same time.
The ave current should be less than 5 amp.
The grounding is confusing.
I printed out the current recommended wiring from AeroLeds today for the Suntail.
It shows that the shield braid is to be grounded at both ends, the Suntail
black wire to ground and the mounting screw to ground. I interpreted this in
the following way, I connected the Shield braid, black wire and mounting screw
together and extended that connection back to wing structure for my ground point.
I had very bad strobe noise on my comm radio at first flight. A call to AeroLeds
gave me the instruction to NOT GROUND THE SHIELD BRAID at the light ends.
Un-grounding the Shield at the AeroLed mounting location has greatly reduced my
radio noise.
> On Apr 21, 2016, at 4:58 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:
>
> I Just got off the phone wit the Tec. guy at Aeroled. I am installing there
NS strobe lights that have two nav. strobes and a suntail in the rear. Each
device uses up 5 amp peak when the strobes fire. Aero LED recommends using a
3 conductor 20AWG Shielded wire to connect them all together and for power.
>
> The way they recommend wiring the whole system is this:
>
>
> use use the 20 awg wires for power to the strobe and nav. The nav. uses very
little so the 20AWG will handle the current. Each Strobe unit ( there will
be three) can pull up to 5 amps each when they fire. They use to pull 3.5, but
the newer version has been increase to 5 amps. Here is my problem.
>
> If you run all the strobes to a single switch and breaker as they show in their
drawing you will need a 15 amp breaker so it will not trip when when all three
fire at the same time. If all the long runs of the wire to each wing tip and
tail are using 20awg shielded wire they could , in theory not trip the breaker
until there where 15 + amps. This seems to violate the Idea of sizing the
breaker to protect the wire. Of course I will use a larger wire from the breaker
and switch but that still leaves 20awg to the lights. Aero also now recommends
using the Shield as the return ground to the main grounding point rather
than a Local ground. This is important for the magnetometer which in my case
is in the tail.
>
> Any comments would be appreciated
>
> Mike Laz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
>
>
> "lights are Synced and the lights never fire at the same time."
Doesn't the synch insure that the lights DO fire at the same time?
> I had very bad strobe noise on my comm radio at first flight
> ... Un-grounding the Shield at the AeroLed mounting location has greatly
> reduced my radio noise.
>
Bob, as you said that the strobes were low potential for interference, can
you explain this?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
At 10:56 AM 4/21/2016, you wrote:
>Thanks so much Bob.
>
>There are reported problems with the
>Magnetometer test when their Suntail light is on
>.=C2 the Gramin unit will not pass the test when
>the light is grounded locally at the
>tail.=C2 When they switched to using the shield
>for the ground it passed.=C2 So that is where
>this all came from.=C2 One of the Guys at Stein
>air actually had this problem in his 8 , so its
>not some random builder Idea.=C2 The Garmin G3X
>manual wants that Magnetometer installed 10 ft
>from any steel , which is impossible on a
>RV8.=C2 The rear location seems to work just fine.
Okay, found the wiring . . .
Emacs!
This configuration doesn't pay homage to the physics
that describes effects of electron flow in wires.
It appears the product has 4 connections for functionality,
two power lines for strobe and nav, one sync wire and one ground
wire. The use of a shielded, twisted trio ADDS NOTHING to
EMC compatibility of this product when wired as shown.
There are two propagation modes for interference to get
out of the system wires . . . electrostatic coupling which
is very weak and couples fast-rising voltage excursions
from one conductor to another by means of capacitive
coupling. The antagonist and victim wires as capacitor
'plates' must share dielectric separation consisting of
air -and- insulation of the two wires.
This coupling is tiny . . . measured in tens of picofarads
per foot. It takes a strong voltage rise (like those found
on magneto p-leads and xenon strobe wires) laying in close
proximity to sensitive victims like audio and data wires
over pretty long distances before electrostatic (capacitive)
coupling becomes a significant risk.
The other mode is electromagnetic coupling . . . also weak
but significant when electron flow in a wire passed within
inches of a device like a compass that is attempting to
resolve milligauss vectors (earth magnetic field).
The wiring shown above shows shielding which is useful ONLY
for disrupting a non-existent antagonist->propagation->victim
configuration.
At the same time, power ground for the system is illustrated
as happening locally. This means that electrons flowing one
direction in the twisted trio DO NOT FLOW in the opposite
direction in the same bundle of wires. This totally negates
the de-coupling capabilities of the twisted trio.
To correct this mis-understanding of the physics, I would
USE THE SHIELD as the ground return for all wires within
the shield. This will cause the shield to offer concentric
equal amplitude, opposite polarity return cancellation for
magnetic fields generated by outbound current flows. Having a
TWISTED QUAD of wires and no shielding would be just as effective.
But using the shield for the 4th wire is a perfectly acceptable
practice. Wiring the shield as shown produces no demonstrable
benefit.
It's completely understandable why someone experienced a magnetometer
interference experience using the factory wiring as depicted . . .
but its all about concentric current flows and has nothing to
do with 'shielding'.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
>
>Bob, as you said that the strobes were low potential for
>interference, can you explain this?
. . . how would they be high potential? AeroLED
offers these products in both 'experimental' and
'certified' versions. If they've run the gauntlet
for DO-160/TSO, then their devices have been
tested for conducted and radiated emissions right
at the connectors for each device . . . they're
not allowed to say "shield this wire" or "ground
that ground wire to the panel" or any other
installer-driven activity. Each device must run
the gauntlet barefooted.
It makes no sense that the 'experimental' version
would not enjoy the same degree of attention to
electromagnetic compatibility as their TSO
cousins. The OBAM aviation market is a substantial
part of their cash flow. The expense of components
to achieve EMC Nirvana is trivial compared to the
total cost of the product . . . so like the B&C
starters . . . there is no functional or physical
difference between the PMA and EXP versions.
Knowing that, we can be 99.99% sure that any perceived
interference problem lies with installation . . .
not with the product. At the same time, the OBAM
aviation market is not flush with gray-bearded
system integrators so it behooves the manufacturers
of such products to offer installation guidance,
not the least of which are wiring requirements
for functionality and suggestions for EMC harmony.
This is where AeroLED stubbed their toe. Their
perfectly golden product has a potential for
becoming an antagonist, not because of how their
device works, but because of how it gets installed.
The thing COULD be a simple incandescent bulb
under red glass . . . and it would STILL upset
a magnetometer if a single strand conductor passes
by the sensor on its way to the wing tip.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
| From: | John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
So: if you are using fuses, stay with 5amp or go to 7amp
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 21 Apr 2016, at 02:14 pm, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroe
lectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 06:58 AM 4/21/2016, you wrote:
>> I Just got off the phone wit the Tec. guy at Aeroled.=C3=82 I am install
ing there NS strobe lights that have=C3=82 two nav. strobes and a suntail i
n the rear.=C3=82 Each device uses up 5 amp peak when the strobes fire.=C3=82
Aero LED recommends using a 3 conductor 20AWG Shielded wire to connect the
m all together and for power.
>>
>>
>> The way they recommend wiring the whole system is this:
>>
>> use the 20 awg wires for power to the strobe and nav.=C3=82 The nav. use
s very little so the 20AWG will handle the current.=C3=82 Each Strobe unit (
there will be three) can pull up to 5 amps each when they fire.=C3=82 They
use to pull 3.5, but the newer version has been increase to 5 amps. Here is
my problem.
>>
>> If you run all the strobes to a single switch and breaker as they show in
their drawing you will need a 15 amp breaker so it will not trip when when a
ll three fire at the same time. If all the long runs of the wire to each win
g tip and tail are using 20awg shielded wire they could , in theory not trip
the breaker until there where 15 + amps.=C3=82 This seems to violate the I
dea of sizing the breaker to protect the wire.
>
> The breakers we use are actuated by
> a temperature rise in a heater . . .
>
> <2a35c5db.jpg>
>
> This event takes TIME . . . here's the typical
> trip resonse for a 5A breaker . . .
>
> <2a35c639.jpg>
>
> 15A would be a 3x overload on the breaker. The
> data above suggests that it would take 0.5 to
> 3.0 seconds for a 15A stress to open the breaker
> at room temperature.
>
> I would bet that you could 'protect' your system
> with a 5A breaker. Give it a try and report back
> to us. The worst case scenario says you'll need
> to upsize to a 7A breaker but certainly no larger.
>
> The shielding in this system offers no observable
> benefits in your airplane. The wires within the
> strobe system are neither potential victims, nor are
> they strong antagonists for ELECTROSTATIC coupled
> events. Further, the twisting of the wires as they
> pass next to a magnetometer is all the protection
> you need for what is an exceedingly weak interference
> potential for MAGNETIC coupling . . . and shielding
> has NO effect on magnetic coupling.
>
> A prop-synchronizer I proposed to Beech back about
> 1978 sensed the firing of a spark plug by means
> of an inductive pickup on the SHIELDED plug wire.
>
>
>> =C3=82 Of course I will use a larger wire from the breaker and switch bu
t that still leaves 20awg to the lights.=C3=82 Aero also now recommends usi
ng the Shield as the return ground to the main grounding point rather than a
Local ground.=C3=82 This is important for the magnetometer=C3=82 which in
my case is in the tail.
>
> I went to their website to see if I could
> download the installation manual . . . all I
> found was product photos.
>
>
>> Any comments would be appreciated
>
> If that ever nuisance trips, I'll buy you
> a Big Mac and a cup of coffee . . . In the
> mean time, I'll drop them a note to see
> if they'll send me a system to bench test
> from which we'll have MEASURED performance
> data from which to make more rational decisions
> for breaker sizing.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Fuses are inexpensive. Try a 5 amp. If it blows, then go up to the next standard
size, 7.5 amp, slow blow if available.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455306#455306
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: breaker size for AeroLED |
At 02:30 PM 4/21/2016, you wrote:
>So: if you are using fuses, stay with 5amp or go to 7amp
Fuses are a critter of a different breed.
For continuous loading we like to derate them
about 20% . . . further, peaking loads with
durations on the order of 0.2 seconds will
'peck away' at the fusible link and weaken
it. If you want to use a fuse with this system,
stay with the 20AWG recommended wire and go up
to a 10A fuse . . . this DOES NOT pose a risk
to the wires . . . our legacy 22AWG/5A, 20/7, 18/10,
16/12, 14/15 'protection rules' are exceedingly
conservative.
Upsizing a fuse to 10A to avoid nuisance trips due
to spike-weakening is a rational design
decision.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RockRack Switch Wiring |
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
Hi All,
I am going to install RockRack switches and these switches have LEDs that
illuminate when the switch is in the on position.
Has anybody used these switches and/or are familiar with the wiring?
I am interested in learning how to setup the LED so that they are dimmable.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Starter Circuit For DADB |
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
I am wiring a Dual Alternator Dual Battery system and I have a question
about the starter curcuit.
Naturally the only starter CB will be on one system bus and the question is
what if that side battery is completely dead...if the second battery is
still charged and I tie the bus would the second battery have sufficient
power available to close the starter solenoid and start the engine?
I know there is a discussion in the AEC about the dead battery not drawing
down the good battery due to the 13.5 volts required to charge a battery
but I was wondering about the starter circuit.
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RockRack Switch Wiring |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/RockRack-connections.pdf
Pin 7 of all of the switches can be connected together to a dimmer that is connected
to ground. A PWM dimmer is most efficient, but some are noisy. If I remember
right, Jim Weir had an article about LED dimmers in a recent KitPlances
magazine.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455342#455342
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter Circuit For DADB |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
If you're tying the buses (and effectively, the batteries), then it's
electrically the same as 'jump starting' your car using an external jump
start pack.
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:31 PM, William Hunter wrote:
> I am wiring a Dual Alternator Dual Battery system and I have a question
> about the starter curcuit.
>
> Naturally the only starter CB will be on one system bus and the question
> is what if that side battery is completely dead...if the second battery is
> still charged and I tie the bus would the second battery have sufficient
> power available to close the starter solenoid and start the engine?
>
> I know there is a discussion in the AEC about the dead battery not drawing
> down the good battery due to the 13.5 volts required to charge a battery
> but I was wondering about the starter circuit.
>
> Bill Hunter
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter Circuit For DADB |
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
I've never used a jump start pack... always used jumper cables and running
car.
I will be running two Optima batteries so it will be a few steps above the
jump start pack.
Bill Hunter
On Apr 22, 2016 14:08, "Charlie England" wrote:
> If you're tying the buses (and effectively, the batteries), then it's
> electrically the same as 'jump starting' your car using an external jump
> start pack.
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:31 PM, William Hunter <
> billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am wiring a Dual Alternator Dual Battery system and I have a question
>> about the starter curcuit.
>>
>> Naturally the only starter CB will be on one system bus and the question
>> is what if that side battery is completely dead...if the second battery is
>> still charged and I tie the bus would the second battery have sufficient
>> power available to close the starter solenoid and start the engine?
>>
>> I know there is a discussion in the AEC about the dead battery not
>> drawing down the good battery due to the 13.5 volts required to charge a
>> battery but I was wondering about the starter circuit.
>>
>> Bill Hunter
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter Circuit For DADB |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Apples to apples to apples; in all cases you're just paralleling two
batteries.
Draw the diagrams, and visualize all the connecting wires as having zero
length. (Obviously not reality, but will show you the electrical circuit
comparison.)
Charlie
On 4/22/2016 2:57 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> I've never used a jump start pack... always used jumper cables and
> running car.
>
> I will be running two Optima batteries so it will be a few steps above
> the jump start pack.
>
> Bill Hunter
>
> On Apr 22, 2016 14:08, "Charlie England" > wrote:
>
> If you're tying the buses (and effectively, the batteries), then
> it's electrically the same as 'jump starting' your car using an
> external jump start pack.
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:31 PM, William Hunter
> >
> wrote:
>
> I am wiring a Dual Alternator Dual Battery system and I have a
> question about the starter curcuit.
>
> Naturally the only starter CB will be on one system bus and
> the question is what if that side battery is completely
> dead...if the second battery is still charged and I tie the
> bus would the second battery have sufficient power available
> to close the starter solenoid and start the engine?
>
> I know there is a discussion in the AEC about the dead battery
> not drawing down the good battery due to the 13.5 volts
> required to charge a battery but I was wondering about the
> starter circuit.
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Starter Circuit For DADB |
Thanks Charlie
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie England
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starter Circuit For DADB
If you're tying the buses (and effectively, the batteries), then it's
electrically the same as 'jump starting' your car using an external jump
start pack.
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:31 PM, William Hunter
> wrote:
I am wiring a Dual Alternator Dual Battery system and I have a question
about the starter curcuit.
Naturally the only starter CB will be on one system bus and the question
is what if that side battery is completely dead...if the second battery
is still charged and I tie the bus would the second battery have
sufficient power available to close the starter solenoid and start the
engine?
I know there is a discussion in the AEC about the dead battery not
drawing down the good battery due to the 13.5 volts required to charge a
battery but I was wondering about the starter circuit.
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com> |
I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST. I am
not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work just
fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on
terminals. I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would
help.
Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
What Honeywell switches?
Bill Hunter
On Apr 23, 2016 8:06 AM, "Michael Lazarowicz" wrote:
> I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST. I am
> not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work just
> fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on
> terminals. I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would
> help.
>
> Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?
>
> Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jan <jan(at)CLAVER.DEMON.CO.UK> |
If you are talking about this lot ... I would say they are good ...
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Hunter
Sent: 23 April 2016 14:48
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch quality
What Honeywell switches?
Bill Hunter
On Apr 23, 2016 8:06 AM, "Michael Lazarowicz" > wrote:
I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST. I am
not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work just
fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on
terminals. I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would
help.
Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?
Mike
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
If you are talking about this lot
… I
would say they are good …
From:
owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Hunter
Sent: 23 April 2016
14:48
To:
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re:
AeroElectric-List:
Switch quality
What
Honeywell switches?
Bill
Hunter
On Apr 23, 2016 8:06 AM, "Michael Lazarowicz" <tllaz330(at)gmail.com>
wrote:
I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but
switches
SPST. I am not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know
they will
probably work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell
switches
that have screw on terminals. I also have a space issue that the
screw on
terminals would help.
Are these
Honeywell
switches a good choice?
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
| From: | Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com> |
It is a NT 1-2, It has the plastic back with screw terminals.
Hope that helps
On Saturday, April 23, 2016, William Hunter
wrote:
> What Honeywell switches?
>
> Bill Hunter
> On Apr 23, 2016 8:06 AM, "Michael Lazarowicz" wrote:
>
>> I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST. I
>> am not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work
>> just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have
>> screw on terminals. I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals
>> would help.
>>
>> Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:
> I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST. I
> am not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably
> work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches
> that have screw on terminals. I also have a space issue that the
> screw on terminals would help.
>
> Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?
>
> Mike
>
Those are terrible and will cause the wings to fall off. To be safe, box
them up and send them to me.
;-)
Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast
on tabs, because any counter-clockwise pressure on the ring terminal
(tension on the wire) will try to loosen the screw. And proper ring
terminals take the same space as fast on terminals. If you're thinking
of just hooking the wire under the screw head, don't go there. Five
years from now, when you're making changes to the panel wiring, you'll
be cussing yourself as you lie on your back under the panel with your
legs in the air, trying to find the screw you dropped into the bowels of
the a/c.
Now if you want the Honeywells for the looks, or you believe you need
space-certified internal quality, then go for it.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
| From: | Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com> |
No its a clearance problem. The tabs on the Carling switches I have go
straight out the back. When you add the female connector it adds almost
an Inch. I just need the room and the NT Honeywell switch is just a couple
ob bucks more than the Carling ones. There are also two versions of the
Honeywell , One has silver contacts the NT does not. That could really be
overkill.
On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Charlie England
wrote:
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:
>
>> I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST. I am
>> not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work just
>> fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on
>> terminals. I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would
>> help.
>>
>> Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Those are terrible and will cause the wings to fall off. To be safe, box
> them up and send them to me.
>
> ;-)
>
> Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast on
> tabs, because any counter-clockwise pressure on the ring terminal (tension
> on the wire) will try to loosen the screw. And proper ring terminals take
> the same space as fast on terminals. If you're thinking of just hooking the
> wire under the screw head, don't go there. Five years from now, when you're
> making changes to the panel wiring, you'll be cussing yourself as you lie
> on your back under the panel with your legs in the air, trying to find the
> screw you dropped into the bowels of the a/c.
>
> Now if you want the Honeywells for the looks, or you believe you need
> space-certified internal quality, then go for it.
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
Mike -
We're sorta partial to fast-ons around here...
Neal George
Sent from my iPhone
> I am not impressed with their fast on tabs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
Just a contrarian view on Wings falling off, I work for an airline with 52
aircraft and each with 104 c/b's with washers and screws. No wins have
ever even gotten loose nor do the machine screws when correctly installed
and torqued. Space limitations and wire loom routing would never work with
Fast-ons. YMMV.
John Cox
On Apr 23, 2016 07:30, "Charlie England" wrote:
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:
>
>> I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST. I am
>> not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work just
>> fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on
>> terminals. I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would
>> help.
>>
>> Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Those are terrible and will cause the wings to fall off. To be safe, box
> them up and send them to me.
>
> ;-)
>
> Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast on
> tabs, because any counter-clockwise pressure on the ring terminal (tension
> on the wire) will try to loosen the screw. And proper ring terminals take
> the same space as fast on terminals. If you're thinking of just hooking the
> wire under the screw head, don't go there. Five years from now, when you're
> making changes to the panel wiring, you'll be cussing yourself as you lie
> on your back under the panel with your legs in the air, trying to find the
> screw you dropped into the bowels of the a/c.
>
> Now if you want the Honeywells for the looks, or you believe you need
> space-certified internal quality, then go for it.
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Richards <stephencliverichards(at)gmail.com> |
I believe you can get right angle fastons if this would help I have not us
ed them myself
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: "Michael Lazarowicz" <tllaz330(at)gmail.com>
Sent: =8E23/=8E04/=8E2016 18:32
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch quality
No its a clearance problem. The tabs on the Carling switches I have go str
aight out the back. When you add the female connector it adds almost an I
nch. I just need the room and the NT Honeywell switch is just a couple ob
bucks more than the Carling ones. There are also two versions of the Honeyw
ell , One has silver contacts the NT does not. That could really be overki
ll.
On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Charlie England wr
ote:
com>
On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:
I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST. I am n
ot impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work just f
ine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on
terminals. I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would hel
p.
Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?
Mike
Those are terrible and will cause the wings to fall off. To be safe, box th
em up and send them to me.
;-)
Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast on t
abs, because any counter-clockwise pressure on the ring terminal (tension o
n the wire) will try to loosen the screw. And proper ring terminals take th
e same space as fast on terminals. If you're thinking of just hooking the w
ire under the screw head, don't go there. Five years from now, when you're
making changes to the panel wiring, you'll be cussing yourself as you lie o
n your back under the panel with your legs in the air, trying to find the s
crew you dropped into the bowels of the a/c.
Now if you want the Honeywells for the looks, or you believe you need space
-certified internal quality, then go for it.
Charlie
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw terminals are
more likely to come loose than the fast
> on tabs,
Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts, cylinder
bolts etc., etc., etc.
Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455379#455379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
>
ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw terminals
are more likely to come loose than the fast
> on tabs,
Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts, cy
linder bolts etc., etc., etc.
Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.
=9CAPPLES & ORANGES, SIR=9D
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Search for Flag Faston Connectors.
http://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-280050-2.html
Gold plated switch contacts are for lighter loads.
Silver plated switch contacts are for heavier loads.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455381#455381
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 4/23/2016 4:37 PM, donjohnston wrote:
>
>
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw terminals are
more likely to come loose than the fast
>> on tabs,
>
> Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts, cylinder
bolts etc., etc., etc.
>
> Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.
>
And all the bolts that attach parts that are subject to rotation have
castle nuts and cotter keys, right?
My original post was intended to be a bit light hearted, but it's not a
falsehood. Yes, if everything is done properly, screw terminals will be
secure. But try half installing a blade terminal on its blade, and half
tightening a screw on a ring terminal. Then see which is more prone to
loosening when the wires are wiggled. I know none of us who are perfect
pilots and perfect a/c assemblers would ever make such a mistake, but
'stuff happens'.
The real point is that quality blade connectors are plenty good enough
for aviation use.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
| From: | Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com> |
Tanks to everyone fore tier input, I did not mean to start a debate over
screw verses fast on tabs. My real issue was with the Manufacturer quality
of the switches. I have a couple of Carling's and eve though they make
screw on terminals the Honeywell just appeared to be better made. IN the
bis=g scheme of things, the cost of the 7 switches are just a tiny drop
compared to what Garmin has removed from my bank account. This is my
first shot at this kind of wiring. My 1946 T-craft has no electrical and
the Old A7 mag switch is a study in bad design all by its self.
Mike
On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> On 4/23/2016 4:37 PM, donjohnston wrote:
>
>> don@velocity-xl.com>
>>
>>
>> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw
>>> terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast
>>> on tabs,
>>>
>>
>> Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts,
>> cylinder bolts etc., etc., etc.
>>
>> Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.
>>
>> And all the bolts that attach parts that are subject to rotation have
> castle nuts and cotter keys, right?
>
> My original post was intended to be a bit light hearted, but it's not a
> falsehood. Yes, if everything is done properly, screw terminals will be
> secure. But try half installing a blade terminal on its blade, and half
> tightening a screw on a ring terminal. Then see which is more prone to
> loosening when the wires are wiggled. I know none of us who are perfect
> pilots and perfect a/c assemblers would ever make such a mistake, but
> 'stuff happens'.
>
> The real point is that quality blade connectors are plenty good enough for
> aviation use.
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
| From: | Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com> |
My fat thumb on small phone . not Tanks but thanks.
On Sunday, April 24, 2016, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:
> Tanks to everyone fore tier input, I did not mean to start a debate over
> screw verses fast on tabs. My real issue was with the Manufacturer quality
> of the switches. I have a couple of Carling's and eve though they make
> screw on terminals the Honeywell just appeared to be better made. IN the
> bis=g scheme of things, the cost of the 7 switches are just a tiny drop
> compared to what Garmin has removed from my bank account. This is my
> first shot at this kind of wiring. My 1946 T-craft has no electrical and
> the Old A7 mag switch is a study in bad design all by its self.
>
> Mike
>
> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Charlie England > wrote:
>
>> ceengland7(at)gmail.com
>> >
>>
>> On 4/23/2016 4:37 PM, donjohnston wrote:
>>
>>> don@velocity-xl.com
>>> %7B%7D,'cvml','don@velocity-xl.com');>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw
>>>> terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast
>>>> on tabs,
>>>>
>>>
>>> Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts,
>>> cylinder bolts etc., etc., etc.
>>>
>>> Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.
>>>
>>> And all the bolts that attach parts that are subject to rotation have
>> castle nuts and cotter keys, right?
>>
>> My original post was intended to be a bit light hearted, but it's not a
>> falsehood. Yes, if everything is done properly, screw terminals will be
>> secure. But try half installing a blade terminal on its blade, and half
>> tightening a screw on a ring terminal. Then see which is more prone to
>> loosening when the wires are wiggled. I know none of us who are perfect
>> pilots and perfect a/c assemblers would ever make such a mistake, but
>> 'stuff happens'.
>>
>> The real point is that quality blade connectors are plenty good enough
>> for aviation use.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Two Quick Questions |
I decided to go with the =9CMaxi fuse=9D method of
protecting the electrical bus feed.
http://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-HHX-Maxi-Line-Holder/dp/B000CZ2Z92?ie=UT
F8
<http://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-HHX-Maxi-Line-Holder/dp/B000CZ2Z92?ie=U
TF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01>
&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01
I was real surprised by the thickness of this inline fuse case and wire
as it is much bigger in person than on the screen.
What is the best method to splice a 6 AWG wire to a 8 AWG wire?
Also, what is the best method to cut 2 AWG Tefzel cable (and other heavy
duty cable)?
..
Tanks!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Lazarowicz
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2016 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Switch quality
My fat thumb on small phone . not Tanks but thanks.
On Sunday, April 24, 2016, Michael Lazarowicz > wrote:
Tanks to everyone fore tier input, I did not mean to start a debate
over screw verses fast on tabs. My real issue was with the Manufacturer
quality of the switches. I have a couple of Carling's and eve though
they make screw on terminals the Honeywell just appeared to be better
made. IN the bis=g scheme of things, the cost of the 7 switches are
just a tiny drop compared to what Garmin has removed from my bank
account. This is my first shot at this kind of wiring. My 1946 T-craft
has no electrical and the Old A7 mag switch is a study in bad design all
by its self.
Mike
On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Charlie England > wrote:
>
On 4/23/2016 4:37 PM, donjohnston wrote:
<don@velocity-xl.com
%7B%7D,'cvml','don@velocity-xl.com');> >
ceengland7(at)gmail.com <http://gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw
terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast
on tabs,
Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts,
cylinder bolts etc., etc., etc.
Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.
And all the bolts that attach parts that are subject to rotation have
castle nuts and cotter keys, right?
My original post was intended to be a bit light hearted, but it's not a
falsehood. Yes, if everything is done properly, screw terminals will be
secure. But try half installing a blade terminal on its blade, and half
tightening a screw on a ring terminal. Then see which is more prone to
loosening when the wires are wiggled. I know none of us who are perfect
pilots and perfect a/c assemblers would ever make such a mistake, but
'stuff happens'.
The real point is that quality blade connectors are plenty good enough
for aviation use.
Charlie
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oops. Wrong solder |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
Folks,
I went over to the local electronics supply store yesterday and bought a
Weller WES51 and some DB-9 connectors and some solder so that I could make
a practice project. The good news is that my practice worked and I ended up
with a good cable and I learned a lot. The bad news is that I had a brain
fart while in the store and bought a pound of Kester 60/40 solder instead
of 63/37. Is this a $38 mistake? Or can I use 63/37 for my plane? I'm
inclined to replace the solder in order to reduce the likelihood of cold
solder joints.
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Two Quick Questions |
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
Bill,
The best tool for cutting fat wire is:
http://www.bandc.aero/heavydutycablecutter.aspx
Not terribly expensive and will easily cut fat wire all day. Might also
try Amazon and see if they have a better price.
Splicing 6 AWG to 8 AWG is a bit more of a chore. Check with companies
like McMaster/Carr ( mcmaster.com ), Grainger ( grainger.com ), Fastenal
( fastenal.com)or even Amazon.com. I=99m sure one or more of them
will have 6 AWG butt splices which can probably be used to connect 6 to
8. Most likely will take a heavy duty crimper though.
Another alternative is:
http://www.bandc.aero/electrical-terminals-splices.aspx
The ring terminals at the bottom for 6 & 8 AWG wire with a suitable
short bolt to connect and lots of heavy shrink to cover.
Again, this will require a heavy duty crimper of some sort.
These are off the top of my head. Others may have better ideas.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
On Apr 24, 2016, at 10:43 AM, William Hunter
wrote:
I decided to go with the =9CMaxi fuse=9D method of
protecting the electrical bus feed. <>
http://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-HHX-Maxi-Line-Holder/dp/B000CZ2Z92?ie=UTF
8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01
<http://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-HHX-Maxi-Line-Holder/dp/B000CZ2Z92?ie=UT
F8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01>
I was real surprised by the thickness of this inline fuse case and wire
as it is much bigger in person than on the screen.
What is the best method to splice a 6 AWG wire to a 8 AWG wire?
Also, what is the best method to cut 2 AWG Tefzel cable (and other heavy
duty cable)?
..
Tanks!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oops. Wrong solder |
| From: | Eric Page <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
You did fine. The only thing magic about 63/37 (tin/lead) solder is that it
transitions directly from solid to liquid states (at 183=C2=B0C) without pa
ssing through a plastic state -- a so-called eutectic composition. 60/40 so
lder has a slightly higher melting point (186=C2=B0C) and passes through a b
rief plastic state between solid and liquid. 60/40 has fractionally lower t
ensile strength than 63/37, but for our purposes it makes no difference. Pe
rsonally, I buy whichever is cheaper on the day I'm looking.
Eric
> On Apr 24, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> The bad news is that I had a brain fart while in the store and bought a po
und of Kester 60/40 solder instead of 63/37. Is this a $38 mistake? Or can I
use 63/37 for my plane? I'm inclined to replace the solder in order to redu
ce the likelihood of cold solder joints.
>
> -- Art Z.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oops. Wrong solder |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 4/24/2016 11:05 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I went over to the local electronics supply store yesterday and bought
> a Weller WES51 and some DB-9 connectors and some solder so that I
> could make a practice project. The good news is that my practice
> worked and I ended up with a good cable and I learned a lot. The bad
> news is that I had a brain fart while in the store and bought a pound
> of Kester 60/40 solder instead of 63/37. Is this a $38 mistake? Or can
> I use 63/37 for my plane? I'm inclined to replace the solder in order
> to reduce the likelihood of cold solder joints.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
I was an electronics tech in a couple of previous 'lives', & never had
any problems using 60/40 solder. It's still electronics grade solder.
Just keep the joint stable & let it cool naturally (don't blow on it).
It will still cool quickly so that's not a big deal.
Either will work fine, as long as it's rosin core for electronics work,
and not acid core for plumbing. Not likely that you would have gotten
plumbing solder at an electronics supply house.
BTW, I've enjoyed prowling through your build site. Looking forward to
seeing you fly the BD-4C; I owned an old trigear BD-4 for a while &
might have kept it if it had been a C model (not available back then).
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oops. Wrong solder |
At 11:05 AM 4/24/2016, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>I went over to the local electronics supply store yesterday and
>bought a Weller WES51 and some DB-9 connectors and some solder so
>that I could make a practice project. The good news is that my
>practice worked and I ended up with a good cable and I learned a
>lot. The bad news is that I had a brain fart while in the store and
>bought a pound of Kester 60/40 solder instead of 63/37. Is this a
>$38 mistake? Or can I use 63/37 for my plane? I'm inclined to
>replace the solder in order to reduce the likelihood of cold solder joints.
That will be just fine . . . there is very little differnce.
Just don't let a wet joint wiggle as it crosses the cooling
fence between molten and solid . . . an this is exceedingly
EASY to do.
I wish you'd hollered about needing some solder. Many
Listers have designs that will install a few components
that use/favor soldered joints. But few OBAM aviation projects
will need more than an ounce of solder . . . except if you're
installing honking terminals on fat wires . . . then you might
need 2-3 ounces of solder.
I've got a lifetime supply (residuals from busier soldering
days) and I'd be pleased to donate project-sized bits of
'the good stuff' to my reader's project.
In any case, 60/40 is what I used for 25 or so years before
I had ready access to a more refined product . . . 60/40 is
okay.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Quick Questions |
>
>What is the best method to splice a 6 AWG wire to a 8 AWG wire?
Any sort of manufactured splicing product will
add considerable 'bulk' to the wire. My personal
favorite for a trim joint is to strip about 5/8"
insulation off both ends to be mated. Fan out the
strands on the 6AWG and use a sharp nosed wire
cutter to trim out about 1/3 to 1/2 of its strands.
Fan the strands on the 8AWG then interleave them
into the stands of the larger wire and form the
expanded strands back into a tight bundle.
You can wrap the interleaved strands with some
small wire . . . strip off a chunk of 22AWG
to use the bare wires for 'binding' . . .
then solder the joint. Cover with shrink when
cooled.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch quality |
At 10:31 AM 4/24/2016, you wrote:
>My fat thumb on small phone . =C2 not Tanks but thanks.
>
>On Sunday, April 24, 2016, Michael Lazarowicz
><tllaz330(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>Tanks to everyone fore tier input,=C2 I did not
>mean to start a debate over screw verses fast on tabs.
There isn't really a 'debate' . . . it's a 'choice' for
achieving design goals. Different goals call for different
choices. My observations and experience with fast-ons
in general aviation dates back to Cessna's incorporation
of the Carling Rockers in the 60's.
They proved to be an acceptable solution to Cessna's
design goals for a satisfactory yet inexpensive alternative
to the legacy screw-terminal devices which greatly
improved manufacturing labor costs.
I began promoting the fast-on switches and fuse-blocks into
OBAM aviation about 1990 . . . it took hold and I don't
think anyone has looked back. The really cool thing about
a fast-on switch is that you can replace it literally
by feel alone. No itty-bitty short screw with lock washer
and screwdriver slot to thread through a ring terminal
that just won't hold still.
Without a doubt, the Honeywell products are fine
switches that have a history dating back much
further than the transition to fast-ons in the
single engine market. In terms of MTBF,
the Honeywells may well have a greater laboratory
service life that the Carling . . . but when the
average light aircraft switch gets operated perhaps
200 times a year, is your money well spent to get
a switch 'rated' for 30,000 cycles as opposed to
20,000 cycles?
Further, if your design is failure tolerant, then
the switch replacement is a cost-of-ownership as
opposed to a risk issue . . . on that train of
thought, the Carlings with fast-ons are way out front.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oops. Wrong solder |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
Well that's a relief :-) I found a local electronics store (not many of
them left, sadly) and decided to support them rather than buying my stuff
online. I sure didn't realize that an ounce or three would have been
sufficient, though. Ah well....
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:05 AM 4/24/2016, you wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I went over to the local electronics supply store yesterday and bought a
> Weller WES51 and some DB-9 connectors and some solder so that I could make
> a practice project. The good news is that my practice worked and I ended up
> with a good cable and I learned a lot. The bad news is that I had a brain
> fart while in the store and bought a pound of Kester 60/40 solder instead
> of 63/37. Is this a $38 mistake? Or can I use 63/37 for my plane? I'm
> inclined to replace the solder in order to reduce the likelihood of cold
> solder joints.
>
>
> That will be just fine . . . there is very little differnce.
> Just don't let a wet joint wiggle as it crosses the cooling
> fence between molten and solid . . . an this is exceedingly
> EASY to do.
>
> I wish you'd hollered about needing some solder. Many
> Listers have designs that will install a few components
> that use/favor soldered joints. But few OBAM aviation projects
> will need more than an ounce of solder . . . except if you're
> installing honking terminals on fat wires . . . then you might
> need 2-3 ounces of solder.
>
> I've got a lifetime supply (residuals from busier soldering
> days) and I'd be pleased to donate project-sized bits of
> 'the good stuff' to my reader's project.
>
> In any case, 60/40 is what I used for 25 or so years before
> I had ready access to a more refined product . . . 60/40 is
> okay.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oops. Wrong solder |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
> Either will work fine, as long as it's rosin core for electronics work,
> and not acid core for plumbing. Not likely that you would have gotten
> plumbing solder at an electronics supply house.
>
Thank you for the encouragement, Charlie.
> BTW, I've enjoyed prowling through your build site. Looking forward to
> seeing you fly the BD-4C; I owned an old trigear BD-4 for a while & might
> have kept it if it had been a C model (not available back then).
>
You and I are both looking forward to seeming me fly my BD-4C :-D
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
I found some old dogbone connectors in the basement and have been doing
some practicing. Googling didn't turn up any examples of a well soldered
joint so please give me some feedback. (I did find a YouTube video of
someone teaching soldering... he had a roll of electrical tape!) The wire
is 20 AWG in this sample:
Is that how it should look?
BTW, it is a pure delight to use the WES51. I have never bought anything
better than a $25 soldering pencil for myself. I wish I could have afforded
something like this back when I was in junior high and in high school and
was building lots o' stuff.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Check My Work |
At 02:53 PM 4/24/2016, you wrote:
>I found some old dogbone connectors in the basement and have been
>doing some practicing. Googling didn't turn up any examples of a
>well soldered joint so please give me some feedback. (I did find a
>YouTube video of someone teaching soldering... he had a roll of
>electrical tape!) The wire is 20 AWG in this sample:
That joint is probably quite adequate. There
are some signs of 'beading' for the molten
solder at the interface with the terminal . . .
an effect of terminals exposed to the air
and moisture for some time . . . solder
has difficulty getting an aggressive wetting.
The really BIG difference in solders has more
to do with flux than the alloy. There are
really 'active' fluxes that would produce
a more wetted joint but I wouldn't be afraid
of what you've produced.
One thing you might 'practice' with is a technique
I call "flushing" the joint. Put some heat to the
terminal as if you were going to 'tin' the
end . . . but push some solder into the melt
until it drips, then wipe it off with rag before
it cools. Some solders I have are very active
flux and the excess melt+flux goes a long
way to preparing the base metal to accept
the soldered wire. You wind up using perhaps
2x to 3x of solder necessary to complete
the joint but the act of flushing with some
excess melt + flux can be useful to the
finished joint on 'stale' surfaces.
That's something you can play with but what
you've shown us is certainly adequate.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Check My Work |
At 03:56 PM 4/24/2016, you wrote:
>At 02:53 PM 4/24/2016, you wrote:
>>I found some old dogbone connectors in the basement and have been
>>doing some practicing. Googling didn't turn up any examples of a
>>well soldered joint so please give me some feedback. (I did find a
>>YouTube video of someone teaching soldering... he had a roll of
>>electrical tape!) The wire is 20 AWG in this sample:
>
> That joint is probably quite adequate. There
> are some signs of 'beading' for the molten
> solder at the interface with the terminal . . .
> an effect of terminals exposed to the air
> and moisture for some time . . . solder
> has difficulty getting an aggressive wetting.
You're looking for something more like this:
Emacs!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Check My Work |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
Bob,
Flushing... never heard of it. I just tried it on one of those old
connectors and I did get a much better joint.
My practice connectors, BTW, have been in my basement for more than 20
years. They are heavily oxidized. I wouldn't put them into my plane but
they are proving worthy experimentation fodder.
Oh... before I forget again... some of the photos on Poor Man's Solder
Sleeves
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.html>
don't load. I was able to make a very satisfactory splice following your
instructions on that page. I am now ready to cut and extend the CAN bus
link cable that came with my MGL autopilot servo.
Thank you for your mentoring and encouragement.
-- Art Z.
On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> One thing you might 'practice' with is a technique
> I call "flushing" the joint. Put some heat to the
> terminal as if you were going to 'tin' the
> end . . . but push some solder into the melt
> until it drips, then wipe it off with rag before
> it cools. Some solders I have are very active
> flux and the excess melt+flux goes a long
> way to preparing the base metal to accept
> the soldered wire. You wind up using perhaps
> 2x to 3x of solder necessary to complete
> the joint but the act of flushing with some
> excess melt + flux can be useful to the
> finished joint on 'stale' surfaces.
>
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Two Quick Questions |
Thanks for the advice!!!
Here is an interesting product.
http://www.amazon.com/Pico-2287PT-Electrical-Connector-Package/dp/B001R6IB1Q
?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
I will report back on it.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2016 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Two Quick Questions
What is the best method to splice a 6 AWG wire to a 8 AWG wire?
Any sort of manufactured splicing product will
add considerable 'bulk' to the wire. My personal
favorite for a trim joint is to strip about 5/8"
insulation off both ends to be mated. Fan out the
strands on the 6AWG and use a sharp nosed wire
cutter to trim out about 1/3 to 1/2 of its strands.
Fan the strands on the 8AWG then interleave them
into the stands of the larger wire and form the
expanded strands back into a tight bundle.
You can wrap the interleaved strands with some
small wire . . . strip off a chunk of 22AWG
to use the bare wires for 'binding' . . .
then solder the joint. Cover with shrink when
cooled.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Check My Work |
At 05:54 PM 4/24/2016, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Flushing... never heard of it.
You wouldn't . . . in the higher order
environs of manufacturing with bright,
new components. But for those of us who
date back to 6v mobile rigs running
vibrators and PE-103 dynamoters all
scrounged from WWII military surplus,
a few 'tricks of the trade' were
discovered.
> I just tried it on one of those old connectors
> and I did get a much better joint.=C2
>
>My practice connectors, BTW, have been in my
>basement for more than 20 years. They are
>heavily oxidized. I wouldn't put them into my
>plane but they are proving worthy experimentation fodder.
Sure . . . but should you wish to use
one, pulling the soldered end out of a
firm grip in ScotchBright will improve
the wetting too.
>Oh... before I forget again... some of the
>photos on
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.htm
l>Poor
>Man's Solder Sleeves don't load. I was able to
>make a very satisfactory splice following your
>instructions on that page. I am now ready to cut
>and extend the CAN bus link cable that came with my MGL autopilot servo.
I just checked them here and they came
down alright . . . sorry you're having
difficulty.
>Thank you for your mentoring and encouragement.
Thank us here on the List by getting better
at what you do . . . but you are indeed
most welcome.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "racerjerry" <gnking2(at)verizon.net> |
Screw type terminations scare the hell out of me - except when they are done correctly.
I have seen way too many products & screw type terminal strips installed
in OBAM aircraft that were designed for static operation that do not have
any type of locking mechanism to counter normal vibration. Most quality switches
come with terminal screws that have a captive lock-washer as well as a plain
thin washer under it so as to provide a locking mechanism for the screw head,
but not scar the device being attached.
I am very partial to aircraft quality internal star lock-washers. They are inexpensive,
corrosion resistant and do not side load the screw/stud as common split
lock-washers are prone to do. They are also thinner than a split washer.
If I am installing against a ring terminal; unless it's captive, I normally omit
the plain washer and let the stars bite into everything for a solid, secure
and vibration resistant connection. The internal star lock-washers should be
replaced each time they are removed, but at least check that ears are not completely
flattened out. $2 worth will last you a lifetime.
Current prices from Aircraft Spruce:
MS35333-37 (#6) $0.02
MS35333-38 (#8) $0.02
AN960-6L (#6) $0.02 or $1.60 /100
AN960-8L (#8) $0.02 or $1.60 /100
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455423#455423
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Screw Terminals |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
It turns out that the split ring lock washers that we have been using for years
are not actually lock washers at all. In fact, their spring characteristic can
actually cause fasteners to loosen sooner. I have not seen split ring lock
wasters used on newer cars. Internal star lock washers are good. Even better
are wedge-lock washers. They are used in pairs with the wedges facing each
other. When a bolt or nut starts to loosen, the wedges move apart slightly.
That causes the fastener to stretch, which makes it difficult for the fastener
to loosen anymore. It requires much more force to loosen than to tighten fasteners
installed with wedge-lock washers. Matco brakes and Sensenich props use
wedge-lock washers without any other locking devices or safety wire.
Youtube movie about wedge-lock washers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKwWu2w1gGk
I am not recommending wedge-lock washers for small screws. But I am recommending
that split ring lock washers NOT be used anyplace on an aircraft, or for any
application with the intent of preventing a fastener from loosening.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455430#455430
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Screw Terminals |
| From: | Eric Page <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Very interesting product. It appears to work well, but I wonder if the radial
impression marks that they create can serve as stress risers in softer materials
like aluminum. Also, it looks like it wouldn't take very much over-torque
to gall an aluminum surface or scrape off the cladding.
Perhaps this is why aviation still predominantly uses castle nuts on flat washers.
Not advocating against Nord-Lock, just thinking out loud...
Eric
> On Apr 25, 2016, at 6:41 AM, user9253 wrote:
> [...] Even better are wedge-lock washers. They are used in pairs with the wedges
facing each other. When a bolt or nut starts to loosen, the wedges move
apart slightly. That causes the fastener to stretch, which makes it difficult
for the fastener to loosen anymore. It requires much more force to loosen than
to tighten fasteners installed with wedge-lock washers. Matco brakes and Sensenich
props use wedge-lock washers without any other locking devices or safety
wire.
> Youtube movie about wedge-lock washers:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKwWu2w1gGk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Screw Terminals |
At 05:52 AM 4/25/2016, you wrote:
>
>Screw type terminations scare the hell out of me - except when they
>are done correctly. I have seen way too many products & screw
>type terminal strips installed in OBAM aircraft that were designed
>for static operation that do not have any type of locking mechanism
>to counter normal vibration. Most quality switches come with
>terminal screws that have a captive lock-washer as well as a plain
>thin washer under it so as to provide a locking mechanism for the
>screw head, but not scar the device being attached.
True . . .
All mil-qualified switches will come with internal
tooth lock washers and I've never encountered a
condition precipitated by a loose screw.
Switch and breaker panels are never assembled in
a production airframe. They are put together on
sub-assemblies in good lighting, air conditioned
spaces by people standing upright or sitting
on a chair.
The sub assembly, with a medusa of pendant cables
and wires is assembled to the airframe with a few
screws and 'plugged in' with perhaps a few fat
wires dropping onto studs.
Most breakers and switches with threaded fasteners
have steel screws into brass 'nuts'. Recommended
torque values for fastening are in the 8 in-lb
range . . . and this number is generally 60%
of ultimate. Assembly benches at Beech used
torque limiting screwdrivers to do final tightening
of threaded fasteners. You can often pick up
adjustable, torque limiting screwdrivers off
eBay.
Few OBAM/SE-TC aircraft are assembled like leggos
. . . and none will be easy/convenient/comfortable to
troubleshoot. Further, the assembler is comparatively
Wwaaaayyy down on the learning curve for achieving
consistent tightening torque.
At the same time, we have an opportunity to do
FMEA studies which guarantee that NO single
disconnection for loose screw or any other
reason causes a bad day in the cockpit. Many
variations in desirable switch styles/features
will drive the decision toward threaded fasteners
which are not evil, only different. It's like
the difference between crimped and soldered.
Both are entirely satisfactory when applied
with confidence . . . it's just another skill
to learn.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Check My Work |
At first glance, that pic shows a poor solder joint.
The wire is captured correctly but, the joint to the terminal is poor. The
solder should pool out in a graceful way and appear very attached. Someti
mes best to lightly sand the terminal metal first so solder can attach to b
ase metal.
D
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----- Original Message -----
From: Art Zemon
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2016 12:53 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Check My Work
I found some old dogbone connectors in the basement and have been doing s
ome practicing. Googling didn't turn up any examples of a well soldered joi
nt so please give me some feedback. (I did find a YouTube video of someone
teaching soldering... he had a roll of electrical tape!) The wire is 20 AWG
in this sample:
Is that how it should look?
BTW, it is a pure delight to use the WES51. I have never bought anything
better than a $25 soldering pencil for myself. I wish I could have afforded
something like this back when I was in junior high and in high school and
was building lots o' stuff.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Check My Work |
Oops. . . I probably spoke out of turn.
I did not see the 2nd image where the wire passes thru and is soldered on b
oth sides. That joint maybe Ok. . The only flaw is that I cannot see the
smooth fan-out of the solder edges. It looks like the solder is fighting
against some sort of plating on the terminal. On a joint like that, I woul
d probably try to flow some solder on the terminal first. Just enough to ge
t a wet look but, not enough to block the wire hole. If that flows normall
y, then attach the wire and flow additional material to bind it all in one
unit.
----- Original Message -----
From: Art Zemon
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2016 12:53 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Check My Work
I found some old dogbone connectors in the basement and have been doing s
ome practicing. Googling didn't turn up any examples of a well soldered joi
nt so please give me some feedback. (I did find a YouTube video of someone
teaching soldering... he had a roll of electrical tape!) The wire is 20 AWG
in this sample:
Is that how it should look?
BTW, it is a pure delight to use the WES51. I have never bought anything
better than a $25 soldering pencil for myself. I wish I could have afforded
something like this back when I was in junior high and in high school and
was building lots o' stuff.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Powering "minor" devices |
Bob and all
I have to get power to 5 or 6 critters who will live in my instrument panel (instruments'
lights, LED strip, USB socket, warning lights, etc.).
I don't want to have a dedicated circuit breaker (or fuse - please don't start
a CB versus Fuse war again...), so I decided to use a small buss, powered from
a single CB, and then connect all those devices to this small buss.
Questions:
- is this the right and elegant solution to this particular need?
- which kind of buss should I use, a single bolt/screw, or a small bar?
- as for the circuit-breaker, should I use a 2A, which would be what each circuit
would need, or should I "upgrade" it to, say 5A, to protect all wires for
the case all of them are simultaneously transporting energy?
Regards
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ARGOLDMAN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Powering "minor" devices |
Carlos, consider individual poly fuses for those. a short in one of the
"minors" will not effect the others and you have protection.
Practice Safe sparks.
Rich
In a message dated 4/26/2016 3:44:28 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo
Bob and all
I have to get power to 5 or 6 critters who will live in my instrument
panel (instruments' lights, LED strip, USB socket, warning lights, etc.).
I don't want to have a dedicated circuit breaker (or fuse - please don't
start a CB versus Fuse war again...), so I decided to use a small buss,
powered from a single CB, and then connect all those devices to this small buss.
Questions:
- is this the right and elegant solution to this particular need?
- which kind of buss should I use, a single bolt/screw, or a small bar?
- as for the circuit-breaker, should I use a 2A, which would be what each
circuit would need, or should I "upgrade" it to, say 5A, to protect all
wires for the case all of them are simultaneously transporting energy?
Regards
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart Hutchison <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | SHT3x Digital/Analog Humidity Sensors - Sensirion | |
DigiKey
G=99day Bob,
Do you reckon it would be easy to build a circuit accommodating these
new humidity sensors (digital and analogue options) for an engine
dehumidifier that automatically switches between an aquarium pump and an
incandescent heat bulb dry out the silica desicant?
>
http://www.digikey.com.au/en/product-highlight/s/sensirion/sht3x-digital-a
nd-analog-humidity-sensors?WT.v_sub=6908894&WT.mc_id=em_NPA1604B.AU.Se
nd&WT.z_email=6249_NPA1604BI0AU_supplier6image--1649-Sensirion&mkt_tok=
eyJpIjoiTmprME9HVXlaR0pqWVRjeiIsInQiOiJlSGlHNGpRbzFVMVwvbmJHMFppZmNUSG9INm
phQnJWZjRlWWRHZ09uWGNONWxPcVlGaStzRFpGVGZSMTdBZ1FpVVFNQUxhZHRYU0UwVjBQME41
Wng2VFwvZEg5ajI3YWZoNk9BdlJLZk5oNTJzPSJ9
<http://www.digikey.com.au/en/product-highlight/s/sensirion/sht3x-digital-
and-analog-humidity-sensors?WT.v_sub=6908894&WT.mc_id=em_NPA1604B.AU.S
end&WT.z_email=6249_NPA1604BI0AU_supplier6image--1649-Sensirion&mkt_tok=
eyJpIjoiTmprME9HVXlaR0pqWVRjeiIsInQiOiJlSGlHNGpRbzFVMVwvbmJHMFppZmNUSG9INm
phQnJWZjRlWWRHZ09uWGNONWxPcVlGaStzRFpGVGZSMTdBZ1FpVVFNQUxhZHRYU0UwVjBQME41
Wng2VFwvZEg5ajI3YWZoNk9BdlJLZk5oNTJzPSJ9>
Cheers, Stu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering "minor" devices |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
I would use a single bolt and 5 amp protection with awg22 wire.
I would also daisy chain anywhere that made sense. ie if not convenient
to bring some wires back to the CB then split them off from any of the
downstream connections.
Don't drop down to smaller wires though as the 5 amp CB might not
properly protect some smaller wires.
Ken
On 26/04/2016 6:41 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Bob and all
>
> I have to get power to 5 or 6 critters who will live in my instrument panel (instruments'
lights, LED strip, USB socket, warning lights, etc.).
> I don't want to have a dedicated circuit breaker (or fuse - please don't start
a CB versus Fuse war again...), so I decided to use a small buss, powered from
a single CB, and then connect all those devices to this small buss.
>
> Questions:
> - is this the right and elegant solution to this particular need?
> - which kind of buss should I use, a single bolt/screw, or a small bar?
> - as for the circuit-breaker, should I use a 2A, which would be what each circuit
would need, or should I "upgrade" it to, say 5A, to protect all wires for
the case all of them are simultaneously transporting energy?
>
> Regards
> Carlos
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SHT3x Digital/Analog Humidity Sensors - Sensirion |
| DigiKey
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
Stu
Much cheaper and easier to pick up little circuit assemblies marketed
for arduino projects or similar on ebay. There are several versions of
humidity sensors for a couple of dollars. I'd use a $3. arduino pro mini
as the controller. Similarly there are power relays that interface for a
couple of $.
Ken
On 26/04/2016 8:20 AM, Stuart Hutchison wrote:
> Gday Bob,
>
> Do you reckon it would be easy to build a circuit accommodating these
> new humidity sensors (digital and analogue options) for an engine
> dehumidifier that automatically switches between an aquarium pump and
> an incandescent heat bulb dry out the silica desicant?
>
>> http://www.digikey.com.au/en/product-highlight/s/sensirion/sht3x-digital-and-analog-humidity-sensors?WT.v_sub=6908894&WT.mc_id=em_NPA1604B.AU.Send&WT.z_email=6249_NPA1604BI0AU_supplier6image--1649-Sensirion&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTmprME9HVXlaR0pqWVRjeiIsInQiOiJlSGlHNGpRbzFVMVwvbmJHMFppZmNUSG9INmphQnJWZjRlWWRHZ09uWGNONWxPcVlGaStzRFpGVGZSMTdBZ1FpVVFNQUxhZHRYU0UwVjBQME41Wng2VFwvZEg5ajI3YWZoNk9BdlJLZk5oNTJzPSJ9
>
> Cheers, Stu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent or Jackie Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SHT3x Digital/Analog Humidity Sensors - Sensirion |
| DigiKey
Pardon me for sidestepping your question but it might be simpler to make
a dehydrator with an ammo can, the aquarium pump you mention, and use a
light timer for a few hours a day. The silica will work for months and
can be dried in the oven fairly quickly and reused. Pics below. I have
had to replace a low-time cam and lifters due to rust. When I come back
from flying, I blow the moisture out of the engine with a small
air-mattress pump and hook up the dehydrator. I wrapped the pump in
screen wire and put it in a bag to breath; cover it with the silica gel.
500g silica packs are pretty cheap on ebay.
-Kent
> On Apr 26, 2016, at 8:20 AM, Stuart Hutchison
wrote:
>
> G=99day Bob,
>
> Do you reckon it would be easy to build a circuit accommodating these
new humidity sensors
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Powering "minor" devices |
Not debating your rationale, but I will still give you my 2 cents and that
is not to do what you're doing....because I'm wondering what/how you're
going to size your protection device at? Will it be sized for the 2-4A USB
charger, or the .2A LED strip, or the warning lights, or the combination of
all of them (in which case the device would potentially be too large to
protect the wiring to any single one of them)? At this point in your build,
don't step over a dollar to pick up a dime.
One of the easiest solutions to that conundrum is a small fuse block with a
single input that has 6+ circuits that you can individually fuse. You could
still hide it behind a screen where it has easy access, but it'd be much
simpler and much more elegant in my opinion....plus the quickest and easiest
to wire up yet still allowing you the option for multiple protected circuits
quite easy and cleanly.
If you're still dead set against protecting each device/circuit (which I
stress would be the proper method), I'd say use either a smaller terminal
strip with jumpers or a remade buss bar with either bolts or screws on it.
Again, the goal here is to keep it simple, clean and have the least amount
of "failure points" in the system.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 5:41 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Powering "minor" devices
-->
Bob and all
I have to get power to 5 or 6 critters who will live in my instrument panel
(instruments' lights, LED strip, USB socket, warning lights, etc.).
I don't want to have a dedicated circuit breaker (or fuse - please don't
start a CB versus Fuse war again...), so I decided to use a small buss,
powered from a single CB, and then connect all those devices to this small
buss.
Questions:
- is this the right and elegant solution to this particular need?
- which kind of buss should I use, a single bolt/screw, or a small bar?
- as for the circuit-breaker, should I use a 2A, which would be what each
circuit would need, or should I "upgrade" it to, say 5A, to protect all
wires for the case all of them are simultaneously transporting energy?
Regards
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering "minor" devices |
At 05:41 AM 4/26/2016, you wrote:
>
>Bob and all
>
>I have to get power to 5 or 6 critters who will live in my
>instrument panel (instruments' lights, LED strip, USB socket,
>warning lights, etc.).
>I don't want to have a dedicated circuit breaker (or fuse - please
>don't start a CB versus Fuse war again...), so I decided to use a
>small buss, powered from a single CB, and then connect all those
>devices to this small buss.
It's entirely rational. It's done on a larger scale
in TC aircraft.
Consider the distribution tree and its branches.
A similar thing is in operation all over your
house. Any one appliance, like a hair dryer,
may have a current/overheat protector built
in. The breaker feeding the outlet comes from
a bus in your breaker box. A transformer behind
your house probably has a protective device on
the hv primary feeder . . . and so it goes up
the line until you get to a steam driven turbine
somewhere that powers a whole lot of hair dryers.
The goal in designing distribution is to protect
branches with devices robust enough to not be
nuisance tripped by anticipated load and fault
conditions downstream. For example, the main
breaker for your house should not operate when
every branch is loaded to capacity and only
one branch is faulted causing its particular
breaker to open. Hence, a short in nobody's
hair dryer should turn out the lights in the
the room, much less the whole neighborhood.
A Hawker or King Air has multiple busses
with feeders from heavier upstream sources.
In every instance, a bus feeder is selected
to be free of nuisance tripping due to
smaller faults downstream. There have been
a number of suggestions for selection of
protective devices . . . the choices are
several and combinations are many. But one
simple design rule applies: Don't let any
single fault event propagate into other
systems. Hence, you can use a fuse, cb,
current limiter or automatic solid-state
wire-protection gee-whizz at the source
end of any feeder . . . just make sure it
is sized for DYNAMIC performance to grunt
the load of any single downstream fault.
Breakers are very slow compared to fuses.
A breaker protected 'buss feeder' to a
fuse block is a perfectly rational thing
to consider. You may want to size the bus
feeder and wire not so much for temperature
effects of maximum anticipated loads . . .
but from the perspective of staying put
when your GPS feeder fuse is called upon
to operate. A 30A breaker driving a 10AWG
feeder to a block of ten, 1A fuses may
be a bit overkill . . . but it does
not violate the first rule of feeder
protection - protect the feeder but ignore
downstream faults.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Powering "minor" devices |
>
>
>If you're still dead set against protecting each device/circuit (which I
>stress would be the proper method),
RIGHT ON!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering "minor" devices |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
How minor are those items? Do you care if they all stop working at once? If they
all go dead, will it be a non event that can wait until landing? If not,
follow Stein's advice. Install a 4 or 6 position fuse block. It does not necessarily
have to be in-flight accessible. The fuse block can be mounted out of
sight. You are better off waiting until safely on the ground before replacing
a fuse. I think that each and every electrical load should have its own fuse.
If one blows, you will know exactly which load is the problem. Fuses are
cheap.
Years ago an airliner crashed because the pilot and copilot were distracted trying
to replace an indicator lamp.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455490#455490
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering "minor" devices |
Bob
Thanks for your answer, but to be frank you got a little bit too much philos
ophical, so in the end I think I did not quite got your message
Could you please be a little more specific on answering my 3 questions?
Thanks
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 26/04/2016, =C3-s 16:25, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aero
electric.com> escreveu:
> At 05:41 AM 4/26/2016, you wrote:
.pt>
>>
>> Bob and all
>>
>> I have to get power to 5 or 6 critters who will live in my instrument pan
el (instruments' lights, LED strip, USB socket, warning lights, etc.).
>> I don't want to have a dedicated circuit breaker (or fuse - please don't s
tart a CB versus Fuse war again...), so I decided to use a small buss, power
ed from a single CB, and then connect all those devices to this small buss.
>
> It's entirely rational. It's done on a larger scale
> in TC aircraft.
>
> Consider the distribution tree and its branches.
> A similar thing is in operation all over your
> house. Any one appliance, like a hair dryer,
> may have a current/overheat protector built
> in. The breaker feeding the outlet comes from
> a bus in your breaker box. A transformer behind
> your house probably has a protective device on
> the hv primary feeder . . . and so it goes up
> the line until you get to a steam driven turbine
> somewhere that powers a whole lot of hair dryers.
>
> The goal in designing distribution is to protect
> branches with devices robust enough to not be
> nuisance tripped by anticipated load and fault
> conditions downstream. For example, the main
> breaker for your house should not operate when
> every branch is loaded to capacity and only
> one branch is faulted causing its particular
> breaker to open. Hence, a short in nobody's
> hair dryer should turn out the lights in the
> the room, much less the whole neighborhood.
>
> A Hawker or King Air has multiple busses
> with feeders from heavier upstream sources.
> In every instance, a bus feeder is selected
> to be free of nuisance tripping due to
> smaller faults downstream. There have been
> a number of suggestions for selection of
> protective devices . . . the choices are
> several and combinations are many. But one
> simple design rule applies: Don't let any
> single fault event propagate into other
> systems. Hence, you can use a fuse, cb,
> current limiter or automatic solid-state
> wire-protection gee-whizz at the source
> end of any feeder . . . just make sure it
> is sized for DYNAMIC performance to grunt
> the load of any single downstream fault.
>
> Breakers are very slow compared to fuses.
> A breaker protected 'buss feeder' to a
> fuse block is a perfectly rational thing
> to consider. You may want to size the bus
> feeder and wire not so much for temperature
> effects of maximum anticipated loads . . .
> but from the perspective of staying put
> when your GPS feeder fuse is called upon
> to operate. A 30A breaker driving a 10AWG
> feeder to a block of ten, 1A fuses may
> be a bit overkill . . . but it does
> not violate the first rule of feeder
> protection - protect the feeder but ignore
> downstream faults.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering "minor" devices |
Thank you Stein
I will consider your solution.
CT
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 26/04/2016, s 15:28, Stein Bruch escreveu:
>
> Not debating your rationale, but I will still give you my 2 cents and that
> is not to do what you're doing....because I'm wondering what/how you're
> going to size your protection device at? Will it be sized for the 2-4A USB
> charger, or the .2A LED strip, or the warning lights, or the combination of
> all of them (in which case the device would potentially be too large to
> protect the wiring to any single one of them)? At this point in your build,
> don't step over a dollar to pick up a dime.
>
> One of the easiest solutions to that conundrum is a small fuse block with a
> single input that has 6+ circuits that you can individually fuse. You could
> still hide it behind a screen where it has easy access, but it'd be much
> simpler and much more elegant in my opinion....plus the quickest and easiest
> to wire up yet still allowing you the option for multiple protected circuits
> quite easy and cleanly.
>
> If you're still dead set against protecting each device/circuit (which I
> stress would be the proper method), I'd say use either a smaller terminal
> strip with jumpers or a remade buss bar with either bolts or screws on it.
> Again, the goal here is to keep it simple, clean and have the least amount
> of "failure points" in the system.
>
> Cheers,
> Stein
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
> Trigo
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 5:41 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Powering "minor" devices
>
> -->
>
> Bob and all
>
> I have to get power to 5 or 6 critters who will live in my instrument panel
> (instruments' lights, LED strip, USB socket, warning lights, etc.).
> I don't want to have a dedicated circuit breaker (or fuse - please don't
> start a CB versus Fuse war again...), so I decided to use a small buss,
> powered from a single CB, and then connect all those devices to this small
> buss.
>
> Questions:
> - is this the right and elegant solution to this particular need?
> - which kind of buss should I use, a single bolt/screw, or a small bar?
> - as for the circuit-breaker, should I use a 2A, which would be what each
> circuit would need, or should I "upgrade" it to, say 5A, to protect all
> wires for the case all of them are simultaneously transporting energy?
>
> Regards
> Carlos
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering "minor" devices |
Thank you Ken
You did answer all my questions.
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 26/04/2016, s 13:38, C&K escreveu:
>
> I would use a single bolt and 5 amp protection with awg22 wire.
> I would also daisy chain anywhere that made sense. ie if not convenient to bring
some wires back to the CB then split them off from any of the downstream connections.
> Don't drop down to smaller wires though as the 5 amp CB might not properly protect
some smaller wires.
> Ken
>
>> On 26/04/2016 6:41 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>>
>> Bob and all
>>
>> I have to get power to 5 or 6 critters who will live in my instrument panel
(instruments' lights, LED strip, USB socket, warning lights, etc.).
>> I don't want to have a dedicated circuit breaker (or fuse - please don't start
a CB versus Fuse war again...), so I decided to use a small buss, powered from
a single CB, and then connect all those devices to this small buss.
>>
>> Questions:
>> - is this the right and elegant solution to this particular need?
>> - which kind of buss should I use, a single bolt/screw, or a small bar?
>> - as for the circuit-breaker, should I use a 2A, which would be what each circuit
would need, or should I "upgrade" it to, say 5A, to protect all wires for
the case all of them are simultaneously transporting energy?
>>
>> Regards
>> Carlos
>>
>> Enviado do meu iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GNS 430 Intermittent Screen, Cooling? |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
I've been using a Garmin 430 for about 2 years. It worked fine for a while,
but around a year ago I started to notice the screen would become
unreadable at times. I don't have a photo of the condition, but I'd
describe it as blotchy and a little scrambled. Googling has led me to
believe that it is overheating. If that is the case, I figured it is likely
due to the sun shining on the glare shield above the unit. I've tried a few
heat mitigation efforts there, such as installing a passive vent above the
unit, and insulation on the underside of the glare shield. Most recently I
installed a 3/4" blast tube that blows a portion of my cabin vent air onto
the unit. I don't have a control to know if these efforts have reduced the
problem, but they have not eliminated it.
For those who know more about these boxes, here are some questions I can
think of:
Is the cooling fan supposed to run all the time? I can hear it running,
but I can also hear it stop running sometimes.
I could set up some data collection to see what kind of temperatures I'm
actually seeing if it would be worthwhile. Where should I measure, and at
what temperatures should it be able to operate normally?
I never had the problem before I took it to the local shop for an internal
battery replacement. How plausible is it that in that process they might
have introduced a fan-related problem? Are local shops able to fix this
kind of thing, or does it have to go back to Garmin?
If I have a unit-specific problem, I'm more inclined to have it repaired or
upgraded to a 430w, but I'd hate to go through all of that expense if my
problem is actually an airframe/installation problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GNS 430 Intermittent Screen, Cooling? |
Jared-
Is this condition present when the Garmin is first powered? If the answer
is "yes," then send it back or upgrade the unit. If the screen-viewing
issue appears after the Garmin warms up/gets hot, then it is likely heat
related. If it were my installation, I'd wire the avionics cooling to run
whenever any avionics are powered, via the avionics master switch, if you
have one installed. Upgrading the unit sounds like a good idea, either way.
Thank you.
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jared Yates wrote:
> I've been using a Garmin 430 for about 2 years. It worked fine for a
> while, but around a year ago I started to notice the screen would become
> unreadable at times. I don't have a photo of the condition, but I'd
> describe it as blotchy and a little scrambled. Googling has led me to
> believe that it is overheating. If that is the case, I figured it is likely
> due to the sun shining on the glare shield above the unit. I've tried a few
> heat mitigation efforts there, such as installing a passive vent above the
> unit, and insulation on the underside of the glare shield. Most recently I
> installed a 3/4" blast tube that blows a portion of my cabin vent air onto
> the unit. I don't have a control to know if these efforts have reduced the
> problem, but they have not eliminated it.
>
> For those who know more about these boxes, here are some questions I can
> think of:
>
> Is the cooling fan supposed to run all the time? I can hear it running,
> but I can also hear it stop running sometimes.
>
> I could set up some data collection to see what kind of temperatures I'm
> actually seeing if it would be worthwhile. Where should I measure, and at
> what temperatures should it be able to operate normally?
>
> I never had the problem before I took it to the local shop for an internal
> battery replacement. How plausible is it that in that process they might
> have introduced a fan-related problem? Are local shops able to fix this
> kind of thing, or does it have to go back to Garmin?
>
> If I have a unit-specific problem, I'm more inclined to have it repaired
> or upgraded to a 430w, but I'd hate to go through all of that expense if my
> problem is actually an airframe/installation problem.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering "minor" devices |
At 12:09 PM 4/26/2016, you wrote:
>Bob
>
>Thanks for your answer, but to be frank you got a little bit too
>much philosophical, so in the end I think I did not quite got your message
>Could you please be a little more specific on answering my 3 questions?
If it were my airplane:
Select a fuse-block (which becomes your minor-items bus)
with sufficient number of slots to power planned devices
plus a few spares . . . perhaps a 10-slot block.
Wire this 'fuse bus' to your main bus through a
robust feeder, say 14AWG.
Put a 15A breaker or 20A fuse at the main bus
end of this feeder.
Populate the minor items bus with fuses no
greater than say 3A so each item enjoys
its own, protected source.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering "minor" devices |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
When trying to decide which is the best way to accomplish a task, I ask myself
what is best in the long run, not what is the easiest or least expensive at the
moment. In this particular case, Stein and Bob have suggested the right and
elegant long term solution. A few years from now when one of those fuses blow,
you will be thankful that 5 other electrical loads still work. And you will
know which device caused the fuse to blow.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455510#455510
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Efraim Otero <efraim.otero(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | B&C 200G Alternator |
Dear All:
I bought a 200G alternador to install a in my wooden celebrity
biplane=C2=B4s O200 Continental engine. It has a Skytec Starter that is
powered by a powersonic 12 V 18 AmpHr Battery.
I received a schematic drawing for a simple day VFR electrical system
(attached).
I have some very newbie questions:
1) I received an =9Cinline fuse holder=9D picture also
attached. This comes be
This goes between and cabled to the alternador B lead to carry that 15
amp fuse before the firewall and the voltaje regulator?
If so, how do I connect it_ do I cut the red wire and splice it to the
one coming out of the alternator? What gauge aire should I use as there
is no mention of any AWG size?
2) What wire to use between the capacitar and the S8005-1? 14 AWG same
as ground?
3) in the S8005-1 what does that =9CCOM=9D diagram mean?
4) The power distribuci=C3=B3n bus: can I use a fuse block with fast on
tabs?
5) my battery is conecten directly to the starter. Should I reroute the
negative pole to ground? What soul I use as ground, the steel firewall?
The steel/aluminum landing gear?
6) how/where does the starter fit in this diagram?
Please help as you can see I am clueless about electriza
systems (even though I read Bob=C2=B4s bookI feel like I=C2=B4m
being taught in Russian! That is obviously my very own weakeness not
the book=C2=B4s!!!!)
Thank you all,
Ephraim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 24V B&C starter current? |
| From: | "digidocs" <junk(at)dcarr.org> |
Hello AeroElectric,
Does anyone have data on the approximate starting current for the 24V B&C starter?
I spoke with B&C briefly and the best data they have easily available is 250-300A.
This was higher than I was expecting. For example, Skytec claims 85-125A
on their 24V NL/ec starter.
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455626#455626
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 24V B&C starter current? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The current varies greatly with the load and even from millisecond to millisecond
from zero RPM to full cranking speed.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455629#455629
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Justin Jones <jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Intermittent Alternator Noise |
Need help troubleshooting an intermittent noise.
My aircraft is wired per Bob's 13-8 diagram. When the primary alternator (60A Lycoming
alternator) is running, all is well. Everything works, the EFII programmer
reads 14.3-14.5 volts and the Dynon EMS-D180 reads 13.8.
When I turn off the main alternator and test the B&C-410H there is an intermittent
noise (wine and static in the intercom). Associated with the noise is a low
voltage indication on the Dynon (11.5 volts) but the EFII programmer still
reads 14.3-14.5 volts. After a few minutes, the noise goes away and the voltage
comes up to 13.8 on the Dynon. The situation will continue to cycle with no
predictable pattern. Every time I get the noise, the Dynon display voltage drops
and every time the noise goes away the Dynon display voltage rises.
After performing an hour long test flight on the B&C alternator and watching this
cycle, I shut the aircraft down and a fluke meter showed 12.9 volts on the
battery.
The regulators are both solid state VR166 as Bob suggests in the Aeroelectric Connection.
Thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks!
Justin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C 200G Alternator |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Ephraim
1. Yes, cut the red wire and connect one end to the power distribution bus in place
of the circuit breaker that is labeled 15A for 200G. The other end of the
red wire connects to the COM terminal of the relay.
2. Yes, 14 AWG.
3. COM stands for "common" on the relay. The "COM" pole is the moving part of
the relay. It connects to the N.O. terminal when the relay is energized and connects
to the N.C. terminal when the relay is not energized.
4. Yes, use a fuse block. However, if you install a crowbar over-voltage module,
that circuit should have a circuit breaker instead of a fuse. With normal
aircraft loads, a small 12 amp alternator will be working hard to maintain voltage,
let alone producing over-voltage.
5. Are both positive and negative battery terminals connected directly to the starter?
If you are talking about only the negative, then leave it attached to
the starter. Install an additional ground wire from the battery negative to
the firewall. Use a brass bolt and install a forest of ground tabs on the other
side of the firewall connected to that same brass bolt.
6. See diagram Z-11 in Bob's book for connecting the starter to the battery. If
your plane does not have a master contactor, then the starter contactor can
be connected directly to the battery positive. Although it is recommended to
also have a master contactor. Z-11 also shows the magneto switches which also
connect to the starter contactor. From the main power bus, follow the wire from
the "START 7A" fuse.
A 12 amp alternator is not very big. Do you have another larger alternator too?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455632#455632
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Alternator Noise |
| From: | John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
What's a 'fluke meter'
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 29 Apr 2016, at 07:18 pm, Justin Jones wrote:
>
>
> Need help troubleshooting an intermittent noise.
>
> My aircraft is wired per Bob's 13-8 diagram. When the primary alternator (60A
Lycoming alternator) is running, all is well. Everything works, the EFII programmer
reads 14.3-14.5 volts and the Dynon EMS-D180 reads 13.8.
>
> When I turn off the main alternator and test the B&C-410H there is an intermittent
noise (wine and static in the intercom). Associated with the noise is a
low voltage indication on the Dynon (11.5 volts) but the EFII programmer still
reads 14.3-14.5 volts. After a few minutes, the noise goes away and the voltage
comes up to 13.8 on the Dynon. The situation will continue to cycle with no
predictable pattern. Every time I get the noise, the Dynon display voltage drops
and every time the noise goes away the Dynon display voltage rises.
>
> After performing an hour long test flight on the B&C alternator and watching
this cycle, I shut the aircraft down and a fluke meter showed 12.9 volts on the
battery.
>
> The regulators are both solid state VR166 as Bob suggests in the Aeroelectric
Connection.
>
> Thoughts or suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Justin Jones <jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Alternator Noise |
> On Apr 29, 2016, at 11:07, John Tipton wrote:
>
>
> What's a 'fluke meter'
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ----x--O--x----
It is a Fluke brand digital multimeter.
Justin
>
>> On 29 Apr 2016, at 07:18 pm, Justin Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>> Need help troubleshooting an intermittent noise.
>>
>> My aircraft is wired per Bob's 13-8 diagram. When the primary alternator (60A
Lycoming alternator) is running, all is well. Everything works, the EFII programmer
reads 14.3-14.5 volts and the Dynon EMS-D180 reads 13.8.
>>
>> When I turn off the main alternator and test the B&C-410H there is an intermittent
noise (wine and static in the intercom). Associated with the noise is
a low voltage indication on the Dynon (11.5 volts) but the EFII programmer still
reads 14.3-14.5 volts. After a few minutes, the noise goes away and the voltage
comes up to 13.8 on the Dynon. The situation will continue to cycle with
no predictable pattern. Every time I get the noise, the Dynon display voltage
drops and every time the noise goes away the Dynon display voltage rises.
>>
>> After performing an hour long test flight on the B&C alternator and watching
this cycle, I shut the aircraft down and a fluke meter showed 12.9 volts on the
battery.
>>
>> The regulators are both solid state VR166 as Bob suggests in the Aeroelectric
Connection.
>>
>> Thoughts or suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Justin
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Alternator Noise |
| From: | Lyle Peterson <lyleap(at)centurylink.net> |
Fluke is a brand of a series of multi-meters usually considered to be of
high quality.
On 4/29/2016 2:07 PM, John Tipton wrote:
>
> What's a 'fluke meter'
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ----x--O--x----
>
>> On 29 Apr 2016, at 07:18 pm, Justin Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>> Need help troubleshooting an intermittent noise.
>>
>> My aircraft is wired per Bob's 13-8 diagram. When the primary alternator (60A
Lycoming alternator) is running, all is well. Everything works, the EFII programmer
reads 14.3-14.5 volts and the Dynon EMS-D180 reads 13.8.
>>
>> When I turn off the main alternator and test the B&C-410H there is an intermittent
noise (wine and static in the intercom). Associated with the noise is
a low voltage indication on the Dynon (11.5 volts) but the EFII programmer still
reads 14.3-14.5 volts. After a few minutes, the noise goes away and the voltage
comes up to 13.8 on the Dynon. The situation will continue to cycle with
no predictable pattern. Every time I get the noise, the Dynon display voltage
drops and every time the noise goes away the Dynon display voltage rises.
>>
>> After performing an hour long test flight on the B&C alternator and watching
this cycle, I shut the aircraft down and a fluke meter showed 12.9 volts on the
battery.
>>
>> The regulators are both solid state VR166 as Bob suggests in the Aeroelectric
Connection.
>>
>> Thoughts or suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Justin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C 200G Alternator |
| From: | Clive Richards <stephencliverichards(at)gmail.com> |
Joe Ref item 1 Efraim drawing shows the inline fuse in the alternator AC
output wire before the regulator I would put it their with a 15 fuse on the
distribution block connecting to the relay com as his drawing.
Efraim I would twist the AC wires from the alternator output to the
regulator as your note 2. as I assume this is a simple aircraft with very
little load this alternator should be large enough we use a smaller one on
our 0200 with no problem (we have MAGS, Mechanical Fuel Pump ,Icom A22
radio, trig transponder, backup electric fuel pump,strobes)
Clive
On 29 April 2016 at 19:42, user9253 wrote:
>
> Ephraim
>
> 1. Yes, cut the red wire and connect one end to the power distribution bus
> in place of the circuit breaker that is labeled 15A for 200G. The other
> end of the red wire connects to the COM terminal of the relay.
>
> 2. Yes, 14 AWG.
>
> 3. COM stands for "common" on the relay. The "COM" pole is the moving
> part of the relay. It connects to the N.O. terminal when the relay is
> energized and connects to the N.C. terminal when the relay is not energized.
>
> 4. Yes, use a fuse block. However, if you install a crowbar over-voltage
> module, that circuit should have a circuit breaker instead of a fuse. With
> normal aircraft loads, a small 12 amp alternator will be working hard to
> maintain voltage, let alone producing over-voltage.
>
> 5. Are both positive and negative battery terminals connected directly to
> the starter? If you are talking about only the negative, then leave it
> attached to the starter. Install an additional ground wire from the
> battery negative to the firewall. Use a brass bolt and install a forest of
> ground tabs on the other side of the firewall connected to that same brass
> bolt.
>
> 6. See diagram Z-11 in Bob's book for connecting the starter to the
> battery. If your plane does not have a master contactor, then the starter
> contactor can be connected directly to the battery positive. Although it
> is recommended to also have a master contactor. Z-11 also shows the
> magneto switches which also connect to the starter contactor. From the
> main power bus, follow the wire from the "START 7A" fuse.
>
> A 12 amp alternator is not very big. Do you have another larger
> alternator too?
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455632#455632
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edwardoc" <Rv8tor(at)mac.com> |
At the risk of being shot I have a question concerning how to hook a diode to my
new starter contact. I am replacing the one that came from Vans in 2005 with
a Lamar brand contractor but the coil lugs are not labeled S & I like the old
one. I think I have figured out which side of the coil is the 12-V input and
the other one I think hooks to ground. Lamar web site shows two types of hookups
depending on a negative or positive switching but not sure where to hook
the diode to for the positive switching wiring. On the old contractor one of
the coil lugs was internally grounded but on the Lamar neither one is. Any inputs.
Couldn't find anything in my searches.
After reading about contractors and voltage spikes, I may have some burned contacts
on my key starting switch as I did not install a diode on the starter contractor
on 2006 and have been having trouble on and off for two years with my
starter acting like it is getting low voltage even though all the voltages check
OK under load. Starter has been rebuilt by SkyTec.
The problem is on some starts the pinion gear moves forward on the Sky Tec LS starter
but not with enough force to engage the gears on the flywheel and thus
the starter motor does not turn. Sometimes holding the key on will cause it to
finally engage and start. Other times it works fine both hot and cold engine.
Other times it will not engage at all unless someone moves the prop slightly
while I hold the starter key on and then it engages and the starter cranks
the engine fine.
Changing the contractor just to eliminate that as a cause before replacing the
key starter switch. 8)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455644#455644
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Edwardoc wrote:
>
> At the risk of being shot I have a question concerning how to hook a diode
> to my new starter contact. I am replacing the one that came from Vans in
> 2005 with a Lamar brand contractor but the coil lugs are not labeled S & I
> like the old one. I think I have figured out which side of the coil is the
> 12-V input and the other one I think hooks to ground. Lamar web site shows
> two types of hookups depending on a negative or positive switching but not
> sure where to hook the diode to for the positive switching wiring. On the
> old contractor one of the coil lugs was internally grounded but on the
> Lamar neither one is. Any inputs. Couldn't find anything in my searches.
>
> After reading about contractors and voltage spikes, I may have some burned
> contacts on my key starting switch as I did not install a diode on the
> starter contractor on 2006 and have been having trouble on and off for two
> years with my starter acting like it is getting low voltage even though all
> the voltages check OK under load. Starter has been rebuilt by SkyTec.
> The problem is on some starts the pinion gear moves forward on the Sky Tec
> LS starter but not with enough force to engage the gears on the flywheel
> and thus the starter motor does not turn. Sometimes holding the key on
> will cause it to finally engage and start. Other times it works fine both
> hot and cold engine. Other times it will not engage at all unless someone
> moves the prop slightly while I hold the starter key on and then it engages
> and the starter cranks the engine fine.
> Changing the contractor just to eliminate that as a cause before replacing
> the key starter switch. 8)
>
>
> If the pinion teeth actually engage the flywheel teeth, but it doesn't
turn, then either the starter motor is defective (unlikely, if
intermittent) or it isn't seeing full battery voltage. That can be caused
by dirty/corroded crimps, terminals, etc, anywhere between the battery
positive post and the battery negative post. In other words, don't forget
to check the ground path, too. It can also be caused by defective contacts
in the solenoid that's mounted on the starter itself. Make yourself an
extension wire & hook one end to the heavy B+ terminal on the starter and
the other end to your volt meter positive lead. hold the meter negative
*directly* on the battery negative post (not on the connector). Push the
start button. You should see 8-10 volts on the meter if the prop turns. If
it doesn't turn, and you see less than 9 volts, you've got either a bad
connection somewhere or a bad battery.
Use the ohm meter function to check the separate starter contactor. It
should have 2 big & 1 or 2 small terminals. Measure resistance from the
metal frame to each small terminal. If one of them is tied to the frame, it
will read near zero ohms on your meter. The other would then read ~4-6 ohms
to ground.
If one reads 4-6 ohms to the frame, and the other reads open circuit
(infinite resistance), then you've got a contactor with S & I terminals.
In either case, hook up your diode so the arrow points toward the terminal
that reads 4-6 ohms to ground. That is also where you'll hook your control
line from your starter switch. B+ from bus to switch to contactor terminal.
The other end of the diode goes to ground/frame.
Note that if neither terminal shows low/no resistance to ground, but you
read 15-20 ohms between the small terminals, you probably don't have a
starter contactor. It's likely a master contactor. Will maybe work for a
while, but life may be short.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C 200G Alternator |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Clive, you are correct that there is a fuse in the alternator AC output. I did
not notice that before. However, a fuse at that location serves no useful purpose
in my opinion and is an unnecessary failure point. The fuse at the power
bus will protect the battery and will protect wires going to the charging system.
A permanent magnet alternator is self current limiting. Equal size fuses
in series is not recommended. There are hundreds of Rotax powered RV-12s that
have no fuse located in the dynamo AC output. Van's Aircraft designed the
electrical system and RV-12s must be wired exactly per the plans if registered
as E-LSA.
Bob's Z-16 does not have a fuse in the AC output.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455648#455648
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Connect the diode directly across the two small terminals on the Lamar contactor
with the arrow (banded end) pointing towards positive. As far as polarity of
the small terminals, it does not matter. (if I am looking at the correct datasheet)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/lamarsolenoidinstall.pdf
Check terminals for tightness and corrosion on all fat wires between the battery
and starter, both positive and negative (ground).
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455650#455650
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 24V B&C starter current? |
At 12:35 PM 4/29/2016, you wrote:
>
>Hello AeroElectric,
>
>Does anyone have data on the approximate starting current for the
>24V B&C starter?
>
>I spoke with B&C briefly and the best data they have easily
>available is 250-300A. This was higher than I was expecting. For
>example, Skytec claims 85-125A on their 24V NL/ec starter.
Depending on the size of the engine, temperatures
and engine condition, both figures may be correct . . .
but different for another engine/wiring combination.
As a general rule, we don't concern ourselves with
the actual numbers for cranking current . . . because
it varies so much on an airplane by airplane basis.
What we DO concentrate on is battery condition. A
fresh, off-the-shelf 18 a.h. SLVA battery shouldn't
even breath hard to dump 600-700 amps at 9v.
Keeping voltage drops in the cranking current
circuits low is the secret to getting the most
from what ever battery you choose . . .
If I were asked to put a figure of merit on
starter A vs. starter B vs. starter C. I'd
have to load them with a constant torque
representative of a worst case engine (6 cycl
lyc cold soaked) then measure rpm at load
and watt-seconds consumed for some benchmark
cranking interval . . . say 10 seconds.
But after posting figures for the three devices,
I'm betting the percentage of market share for
the different offerings would not change materially.
Compared to boat-anchor Prestolites, the cranking
performance for all modern starters is so much
better for less weight that energy consumed
is irrelevant.
No starter will require more than 5% of total
energy contained in an 18 a.h. battery to
get a well tuned engine running. So if the
three samples took 1.8, 2.3 and 2.9 percent
of total energy, it's more likely that
the builder would choose the least expensive
with an acceptable field performance as opposed
to any choices about conserving watt-seconds.
What is the basis for your concerns?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C 200G Alternator |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Now that I see that B&C intended that inline fuse to be installed in
the alternator AC output, I am changing my advice to not use at all.
A fuse located at the main power bus (fuseblock) is all that is needed.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455657#455657
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edwardoc" <Rv8tor(at)mac.com> |
Thanks much. Now I understand. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455660#455660
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Alternator Noise |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The vast majority of electrical problems are caused by bad connections. So check
every connection for corrosion and tightness.
Try interchanging the two voltage regulators to see what happens.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455663#455663
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com> |
For some reason I am really getting confused about the. Batt/master switch
and how it is wired. I am using a clarling toggle, S2077 I believe. It
has three positions. I think this switch is a On/On/On type. You want one
position for everything off. One for Battery only and one for Battery and
Alternator. When I look at the diagram of the switch for page Z-11 it
appears that one position connects the Battery only, one connects the
battery and the Alt. and one is off. It appears that the one position
connects with Term 3 and six which are used as the off position.
Am I even close on this ?
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: carling s700 |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Mike,
Your analysis seems correct to me. I could not find part number S2077. B&C part
number is S700-2-10. Since no wires are connected to terminals 3 and 6, that
position (down) must be off.
Terminal 1 is connected with the switch either centered or fully up.
Terminal 4 is connected only with the switch fully up.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455675#455675
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: carling s700 |
At 07:09 AM 4/30/2016, you wrote:
>For some reason I am really getting confused
>about the.=C2 Batt/master switch and how it is
>wired.=C2 I am using a clarling toggle,=C2 S2077 I
>believe. It has three positions.=C2 I think this
>switch is a On/On/On type.=C2 You want one
>position for everything off.=C2 One for Battery
>only and one for Battery and Alternator.=C2 When
>I look at the diagram of the switch for page
>Z-11 it appears that one position connects the
>Battery only, one connects the battery and the
>Alt. and one is off. It appears that the one
>position connects with Term 3 and six which are used as the off position.
>
>Am I even close on this ?
Z13/8 doesn't show a progressive transfer battery
master. It shows a simple DC master ON/OFF wherein
the alternator can be disabled by pulling the field
breaker. The switch called out is the simple
DPDT/ON-ON S700-2-3 device (B&C part number)
Emacs!
Figure Z-11 shows the progressive transfer
S700-2-10 switch that emulated the split rocker
switch popularized on many single engine aircraft
over the years.
Emacs!
Examination of the schematic symbol illustrates
internal functionality of the DP3T/ON-ON-ON
device.
EITHER style of switch can be used . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: carling s700 (another question) |
| From: | John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
Sorry to hijack the thread ---
But while were are talking switches: I thought I could sort any 2-10 wiring o
ut: but I have a problem, is it possible to wire this 'wig-wag' device
http://www.periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm
to give me, with a three position switch: Off - on (both) - wig-wag
with a 2-10 or any switch for that matter
Regards
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 30 Apr 2016, at 08:18 pm, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroe
lectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 07:09 AM 4/30/2016, you wrote:
>> For some reason I am really getting confused about the.=C3=82 Batt/maste
r switch and how it is wired.=C3=82 I am using a clarling toggle,=C3=82 S2
077 I believe. It has three positions.=C3=82 I think this switch is a On/On
/On type.=C3=82 You want one position for everything off.=C3=82 One for Ba
ttery only and one for Battery and Alternator.=C3=82 When I look at the dia
gram of the switch for page Z-11 it appears that one position connects the B
attery only, one connects the battery and the Alt. and one is off. It appear
s that the one position connects with Term 3 and six which are used as the o
ff position.
>>
>> Am I even close on this ?
>
> Z13/8 doesn't show a progressive transfer battery
> master. It shows a simple DC master ON/OFF wherein
> the alternator can be disabled by pulling the field
> breaker. The switch called out is the simple
> DPDT/ON-ON S700-2-3 device (B&C part number)
>
> <8b672cc.jpg>
>
>
> Figure Z-11 shows the progressive transfer
> S700-2-10 switch that emulated the split rocker
> switch popularized on many single engine aircraft
> over the years.
> <8b67339.jpg>
>
> Examination of the schematic symbol illustrates
> internal functionality of the DP3T/ON-ON-ON
> device.
>
> EITHER style of switch can be used . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: carling s700 (another question) |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
It seems that you want to wire the wig wag as shown in Eric's diagram "B".
You can use a DP3T ON-ON-ON switch as shown in the diagram. Down position will
be off. Mouser part number 633-M204401. Do NOT use the 2-10 progressive transfer
switch.
Or you can use a 3 position ON-OFF-ON DPDT switch with center off.
Make sure there are no parentheses in the ON-OFF-ON description because parentheses
indicate a momentary switch position.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455691#455691
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | carling s700 (another question) |
Diagram =93B=94 on the page you linked gives the operation you=92ve
described.
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Tipton
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: carling s700 (another question)
Sorry to hijack the thread ---
But while were are talking switches: I thought I could sort any 2-10
wiring
out: but I have a problem, is it possible to wire this 'wig-wag' device
http://www.periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm
to give me, with a three position switch: Off - on (both) - wig-wag
with a 2-10 or any switch for that matter
Regards
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
On 30 Apr 2016, at 08:18 pm, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
At 07:09 AM 4/30/2016, you wrote:
For some reason I am really getting confused about the.=C2 Batt/master
switch
and how it is wired.=C2 I am using a clarling toggle,=C2 S2077 I
believe. It
has three positions.=C2 I think this switch is a On/On/On type.=C2 You
want
one position for everything off.=C2 One for Battery only and one for
Battery
and Alternator.=C2 When I look at the diagram of the switch for page
Z-11 it
appears that one position connects the Battery only, one connects the
battery and the Alt. and one is off. It appears that the one position
connects with Term 3 and six which are used as the off position.
Am I even close on this ?
Z13/8 doesn't show a progressive transfer battery
master. It shows a simple DC master ON/OFF wherein
the alternator can be disabled by pulling the field
breaker. The switch called out is the simple
DPDT/ON-ON S700-2-3 device (B&C part number)
<8b672cc.jpg>
Figure Z-11 shows the progressive transfer
S700-2-10 switch that emulated the split rocker
switch popularized on many single engine aircraft
over the years.
<8b67339.jpg>
Examination of the schematic symbol illustrates
internal functionality of the DP3T/ON-ON-ON
device.
EITHER style of switch can be used . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Intermittent Alternator Noise |
| From: | Kent or Jackie Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
Ha! http://www.simpsonelectric.com
> On Apr 30, 2016, at 3:13 PM, John Tipton wrote:
>
>
> What's a 'Simpson meter?
>>>
>>> Fluke is a good meter....Sorta like a Simpson meter was before Bart came along!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edwardoc" <Rv8tor(at)mac.com> |
ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Edwardoc wrote:
>
> >
> > At the risk of being shot I have a question concerning how to hook a diode
to my new starter contact. I am replacing the one that came from Vans in 2005
with a Lamar brand contractor but the coil lugs are not labeled S & I like the
old one. I think I have figured out which side of the coil is the 12-V input
and the other one I think hooks to ground. Lamar web site shows two types of
hookups depending on a negative or positive switching but not sure where to hook
the diode to for the positive switching wiring. On the old contractor one of
the coil lugs was internally grounded but on the Lamar neither one is. Any inputs.
Couldn't find anything in my searches.
> >
> > After reading about contractors and voltage spikes, I may have some burned
contacts on my key starting switch as I did not install a diode on the starter
contractor on 2006 and have been having trouble on and off for two years with
my starter acting like it is getting low voltage even though all the voltages
check OK under load. Starter has been rebuilt by SkyTec.
> > The problem is on some starts the pinion gear moves forward on the Sky Tec
LS starter but not with enough force to engage the gears on the flywheel and
thus the starter motor does not turn. Sometimes holding the key on will cause
it to finally engage and start. Other times it works fine both hot and cold engine.
Other times it will not engage at all unless someone moves the prop slightly
while I hold the starter key on and then it engages and the starter cranks
the engine fine.
> > Changing the contractor just to eliminate that as a cause before replacing
the key starter switch. 8)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> If the pinion teeth actually engage the flywheel teeth, but it doesn't turn,
then either the starter motor is defective (unlikely, if intermittent) or it isn't
seeing full battery voltage. That can be caused by dirty/corroded crimps,
terminals, etc, anywhere between the battery positive post and the battery negative
post. In other words, don't forget to check the ground path, too. It can
also be caused by defective contacts in the solenoid that's mounted on the starter
itself. Make yourself an extension wire & hook one end to the heavy B+
terminal on the starter and the other end to your volt meter positive lead. hold
the meter negative *directly* on the battery negative post (not on the connector).
Push the start button. You should see 8-10 volts on the meter if the prop
turns. If it doesn't turn, and you see less than 9 volts, you've got either
a bad connection somewhere or a bad battery.
>
>
> Use the ohm meter function to check the separate starter contactor. It should
have 2 big & 1 or 2 small terminals. Measure resistance from the metal frame
to each small terminal. If one of them is tied to the frame, it will read near
zero ohms on your meter. The other would then read ~4-6 ohms to ground.
>
>
> If one reads 4-6 ohms to the frame, and the other reads open circuit (infinite
resistance), then you've got a contactor with S & I terminals.
>
>
> In either case, hook up your diode so the arrow points toward the terminal that
reads 4-6 ohms to ground. That is also where you'll hook your control line
from your starter switch. B+ from bus to switch to contactor terminal. The other
end of the diode goes to ground/frame.
>
>
> Note that if neither terminal shows low/no resistance to ground, but you read
15-20 ohms between the small terminals, you probably don't have a starter contactor.
It's likely a master contactor. Will maybe work for a while, but life
may be short.
>
>
>
> The pinion gear moves and hits the flywheel ring gear but does not engage the
teeth. You can hear it and an observer can see it move and strike the flywheel.
SkyTec told me that unless the pinion gear engages the teeth, the starter motor
will not begin to rotate until it is full forward. I have suspected low
voltage but once you nudge the prop just a bit the pinion gear slides forward,
engages the ring gear and then the starter rotates and spins the prop as if it
were normal. Also I have had occasions where I turn the key and the starter
engages normal and get normal rotation and enging start. The engine dies, I
turn the key again and the pinion gear will not engage. Nudge the prop and fraction
of an inch with the key held in start and it engages and I start the engine.
I am going to install a button switch and bypass the key switch for a test
if replacing the contractor did not do anything.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455717#455717
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Edwardoc wrote:
>
>
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Edwardoc wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > At the risk of being shot I have a question concerning how to hook a
> diode to my new starter contact. I am replacing the one that came from
> Vans in 2005 with a Lamar brand contractor but the coil lugs are not
> labeled S & I like the old one. I think I have figured out which side of
> the coil is the 12-V input and the other one I think hooks to ground.
> Lamar web site shows two types of hookups depending on a negative or
> positive switching but not sure where to hook the diode to for the positive
> switching wiring. On the old contractor one of the coil lugs was
> internally grounded but on the Lamar neither one is. Any inputs. Couldn't
> find anything in my searches.
> > >
> > > After reading about contractors and voltage spikes, I may have some
> burned contacts on my key starting switch as I did not install a diode on
> the starter contractor on 2006 and have been having trouble on and off for
> two years with my starter acting like it is getting low voltage even though
> all the voltages check OK under load. Starter has been rebuilt by SkyTec.
> > > The problem is on some starts the pinion gear moves forward on the
> Sky Tec LS starter but not with enough force to engage the gears on the
> flywheel and thus the starter motor does not turn. Sometimes holding the
> key on will cause it to finally engage and start. Other times it works
> fine both hot and cold engine. Other times it will not engage at all
> unless someone moves the prop slightly while I hold the starter key on and
> then it engages and the starter cranks the engine fine.
> > > Changing the contractor just to eliminate that as a cause before
> replacing the key starter switch. 8)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > If the pinion teeth actually engage the flywheel teeth, but it doesn't
> turn, then either the starter motor is defective (unlikely, if
> intermittent) or it isn't seeing full battery voltage. That can be caused
> by dirty/corroded crimps, terminals, etc, anywhere between the battery
> positive post and the battery negative post. In other words, don't forget
> to check the ground path, too. It can also be caused by defective contacts
> in the solenoid that's mounted on the starter itself. Make yourself an
> extension wire & hook one end to the heavy B+ terminal on the starter and
> the other end to your volt meter positive lead. hold the meter negative
> *directly* on the battery negative post (not on the connector). Push the
> start button. You should see 8-10 volts on the meter if the prop turns. If
> it doesn't turn, and you see less than 9 volts, you've got either a bad
> connection somewhere or a bad battery.
> >
> >
> > Use the ohm meter function to check the separate starter contactor. It
> should have 2 big & 1 or 2 small terminals. Measure resistance from the
> metal frame to each small terminal. If one of them is tied to the frame, it
> will read near zero ohms on your meter. The other would then read ~4-6 ohms
> to ground.
> >
> >
> > If one reads 4-6 ohms to the frame, and the other reads open circuit
> (infinite resistance), then you've got a contactor with S & I terminals.
> >
> >
> > In either case, hook up your diode so the arrow points toward the
> terminal that reads 4-6 ohms to ground. That is also where you'll hook your
> control line from your starter switch. B+ from bus to switch to contactor
> terminal. The other end of the diode goes to ground/frame.
> >
> >
> > Note that if neither terminal shows low/no resistance to ground, but you
> read 15-20 ohms between the small terminals, you probably don't have a
> starter contactor. It's likely a master contactor. Will maybe work for a
> while, but life may be short.
>
> >
>
> >
> >
> > The pinion gear moves and hits the flywheel ring gear but does not
> engage the teeth. You can hear it and an observer can see it move and
> strike the flywheel. SkyTec told me that unless the pinion gear engages the
> teeth, the starter motor will not begin to rotate until it is full
> forward. I have suspected low voltage but once you nudge the prop just a
> bit the pinion gear slides forward, engages the ring gear and then the
> starter rotates and spins the prop as if it were normal. Also I have had
> occasions where I turn the key and the starter engages normal and get
> normal rotation and enging start. The engine dies, I turn the key again
> and the pinion gear will not engage. Nudge the prop and fraction of an
> inch with the key held in start and it engages and I start the engine. I
> am going to install a button switch and bypass the key switch for a test if
> replacing the contractor did not do anything.
>
>
> That sounds like you might have a physical/mechanical issue, rather than
an electrical one. There are clearance specs for the pinion to ring gear
mesh. If the pinion is hitting the ring itself, it can't mesh its teeth
with the ring gear teeth. Ask SkyTec for their clearance specs. For a quick
check, look at the ring gear teeth & pinion teeth. The shiny (contact) area
shouldn't extend all the way to the bottom of the V between teeth. You may
need to shim the starter's base away from the motor mounting surface
slightly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim" <tshankland(at)sbcglobal.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edwardoc" <Rv8tor(at)mac.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 11:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: diodes
This is different from what I observed recently on a project the a Suburu
engine conversion and an automotive starter. When installed the starter
would extend and hit the flywheel but not always engage and turn. If you
moved the flywheel a little so it would engage the gear it would work fine.
I turns out, at least in this case the started has to turn to engage. That
is if it doesn't extend far enough it will not start to turn. We solved the
problem with a thin shim sheet under the starter. This way the starter would
extend hit the flywheel begin turning and then engage.
Tim Shankland
>>
>> The pinion gear moves and hits the flywheel ring gear but does not engage
>> the teeth. You can hear it and an observer can see it move and strike the
>> flywheel. SkyTec told me that unless the pinion gear engages the teeth,
>> the starter motor will not begin to rotate until it is full forward. I
>> have suspected low voltage but once you nudge the prop just a bit the
>> pinion gear slides forward, engages the ring gear and then the starter
>> rotates and spins the prop as if it were normal. Also I have had
>> occasions where I turn the key and the starter engages normal and get
>> normal rotation and enging start. The engine dies, I turn the key again
>> and the pinion gear will not engage. Nudge the prop and fraction of an
>> inch with the key held in start and it engages and I start the engine. I
>> am going to install a button switch and bypass the key switch for a test
>> if replacing the contractor did not do anything.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455717#455717
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Agree with Charlie. Sounds like a timing or alignment issue between the ring gear
and starter.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455722#455722
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edwardoc" <Rv8tor(at)mac.com> |
[/quote]
That sounds like you might have a physical/mechanical issue, rather than an electrical
one. There are clearance specs for the pinion to ring gear mesh. If the
pinion is hitting the ring itself, it can't mesh its teeth with the ring gear
teeth. Ask SkyTec for their clearance specs. For a quick check, look at the
ring gear teeth & pinion teeth. The shiny (contact) area shouldn't extend all
the way to the bottom of the V between teeth. You may need to shim the starter's
base away from the motor mounting surface slightly.[/quote]
Thanks. Another mechanic had suggested shimming the starter slightly to ensure
just a little bit more clearance between the teeth. I had resisted this since
a loner SkyTec LS starter seemed to work fine although I did not use it for
more then about 5-6 starts but it never hung up. Will call SkyTec tomorrow to
see what their opinion is about the shims. Thanks again.
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455731#455731
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Edwardoc wrote:
>
> [/quote]
> That sounds like you might have a physical/mechanical issue, rather than
> an electrical one. There are clearance specs for the pinion to ring gear
> mesh. If the pinion is hitting the ring itself, it can't mesh its teeth
> with the ring gear teeth. Ask SkyTec for their clearance specs. For a quick
> check, look at the ring gear teeth & pinion teeth. The shiny (contact) area
> shouldn't extend all the way to the bottom of the V between teeth. You may
> need to shim the starter's base away from the motor mounting surface
> slightly.[/quote]
>
> Thanks. Another mechanic had suggested shimming the starter slightly to
> ensure just a little bit more clearance between the teeth. I had resisted
> this since a loner SkyTec LS starter seemed to work fine although I did not
> use it for more then about 5-6 starts but it never hung up. Will call
> SkyTec tomorrow to see what their opinion is about the shims. Thanks again.
> >
>
>
> Remember, this stuff ain't rocket surgery. There's a reason a lot of
people put 'aircraft quality' in quotes. And that's why Lyc has clearance
specs, and methodology to check for it, and compensate if necessary. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Efraim Otero <efraim.otero(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 200G Alternator |
Joe:
Many thanks for the advice. Yes, the idea is to power a Flightline 760
VHF radio, a Sandia STX transponder and a dual plug cigarrette lighter
plus for iphone and ipad Plain day vfr.
> On Apr 29, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Clive Richards
wrote:
>
> Joe Ref item 1 Efraim drawing shows the inline fuse in the alternator
AC output wire before the regulator I would put it their with a 15 fuse
on the distribution block connecting to the relay com as his drawing.
>
> Efraim I would twist the AC wires from the alternator output to the
regulator as your note 2. as I assume this is a simple aircraft with
very little load this alternator should be large enough we use a smaller
one on our 0200 with no problem (we have MAGS, Mechanical Fuel Pump
,Icom A22 radio, trig transponder, backup electric fuel pump,strobes)
> Clive
>
> On 29 April 2016 at 19:42, user9253 > wrote:
>
>
> Ephraim
>
> 1. Yes, cut the red wire and connect one end to the power distribution
bus in place of the circuit breaker that is labeled 15A for 200G. The
other end of the red wire connects to the COM terminal of the relay.
>
> 2. Yes, 14 AWG.
>
> 3. COM stands for "common" on the relay. The "COM" pole is the moving
part of the relay. It connects to the N.O. terminal when the relay is
energized and connects to the N.C. terminal when the relay is not
energized.
>
> 4. Yes, use a fuse block. However, if you install a crowbar
over-voltage module, that circuit should have a circuit breaker instead
of a fuse. With normal aircraft loads, a small 12 amp alternator will
be working hard to maintain voltage, let alone producing over-voltage.
>
> 5. Are both positive and negative battery terminals connected directly
to the starter? If you are talking about only the negative, then leave
it attached to the starter. Install an additional ground wire from the
battery negative to the firewall. Use a brass bolt and install a forest
of ground tabs on the other side of the firewall connected to that same
brass bolt.
>
> 6. See diagram Z-11 in Bob's book for connecting the starter to the
battery. If your plane does not have a master contactor, then the
starter contactor can be connected directly to the battery positive.
Although it is recommended to also have a master contactor. Z-11 also
shows the magneto switches which also connect to the starter contactor.
=46rom the main power bus, follow the wire from the "START 7A" fuse.
>
> A 12 amp alternator is not very big. Do you have another larger
alternator too?
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455632#455632
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455632#455632>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> -
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 200G Alternator |
At 12:23 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
>Joe:
>Many thanks for the advice. Yes, the idea is to
>power a Flightline 760 VHF radio, a Sandia STX
>transponder and a dual plug cigarrette lighter
>plus for iphone and ipad=85 Plain day vfr.
I'll suggest figure z-16 as a baseline architecture
for your airplane.
http://tinyurl.com/7vp9g4e
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | finding the correct crimper |
Attached are two pictures, one shows the type of terminals I am trying to
crimp, the other shows the three crimpers I have bought, none of which
works on these terminals.
The terminals, as best I can determine, are Delphi AF Female Unsealed
#12131456 (for wire 18-22). They are to be used in a fuse block with the
terminal being the output side of the fuse holder.
The blue handled crimper is the one sold to me when I bought the fuse block
and terminals. The red handled crimper is one that I bought from SteinAir
after the red ones didn't work. The other crimper is a Delphi that I bought
from Mouser after researching the terminals (and failing with the SteinAir
crimper). None of these crimpers even comes close to working. I am
inexperienced, but I have crimped "regular" Molex type terminals using the
blue handled crimpers, no problem. Everything worked just as expected with
the ears turning to dive into the wire strands, etc. But I have ruined at
least 10-15 terminals trying to get a satisfactory crimp with these three
tools, and none of them seems to work properly. Please see attached
pictures. Thanks for any help and advice.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 200G Alternator |
At 12:23 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
>Joe:
>Many thanks for the advice. Yes, the idea is to
>power a Flightline 760 VHF radio, a Sandia STX
>transponder and a dual plug cigarrette lighter
>plus for iphone and ipad=85 Plain day vfr.
I'll suggest figure z-16 as a baseline architecture
for your airplane.
http://tinyurl.com/7vp9g4e
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 04:22 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
>Attached are two pictures, one shows the type of
>terminals I am trying to crimp, the other shows
>the three crimpers I have bought, none of which works on these terminals.
>
>The terminals, as best I can determine, are
>Delphi AF Female Unsealed #12131456 (for wire
>18-22). They are to be used in a fuse block with
>the terminal being the output side of the fuse holder.=C2
>
>The blue handled crimper is the one sold to me
>when I bought the fuse block and terminals. The
>red handled crimper is one that I bought from
>SteinAir after the red ones didn't work. The
>other crimper is a Delphi that I bought from
>Mouser after researching the terminals (and
>failing with the SteinAir crimper). None of
>these crimpers even comes close to working. I am
>inexperienced, but I have crimped "regular"
>Molex type terminals using the blue handled
>crimpers, no problem. Everything worked just as
>expected with the ears turning to dive into the
>wire strands, etc. But I have ruined at least
>10-15 terminals trying to get a satisfactory
>crimp with these three tools, and none of them
>seems to work properly. Please see attached
>pictures. Thanks for any help and advice.
Getting the perfect 'curl-over' with b-crimps
is a bit problematic . . . especially if the
terminal material is thick. My friend Dave
Swartzendruber used to sell that fuse block
to Ford Bronco restoration enthusiasts . . .
I'll drop Dave a note and see what his
experience was with those parts.
Do you have or can you get any extra terminals
as loose parts?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
I still have a few extra terminals. Mouser seems to have a minimum order of
20,000 pieces!
On Monday, May 2, 2016, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 04:22 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
>
> Attached are two pictures, one shows the type of terminals I am trying to
> crimp, the other shows the three crimpers I have bought, none of which
> works on these terminals.
>
> The terminals, as best I can determine, are Delphi AF Female Unsealed
> #12131456 (for wire 18-22). They are to be used in a fuse block with the
> terminal being the output side of the fuse holder.=C3=82
>
> The blue handled crimper is the one sold to me when I bought the fuse
> block and terminals. The red handled crimper is one that I bought from
> SteinAir after the red ones didn't work. The other crimper is a Delphi th
at
> I bought from Mouser after researching the terminals (and failing with th
e
> SteinAir crimper). None of these crimpers even comes close to working. I
am
> inexperienced, but I have crimped "regular" Molex type terminals using th
e
> blue handled crimpers, no problem. Everything worked just as expected wit
h
> the ears turning to dive into the wire strands, etc. But I have ruined at
> least 10-15 terminals trying to get a satisfactory crimp with these three
> tools, and none of them seems to work properly. Please see attached
> pictures. Thanks for any help and advice.
>
>
> Getting the perfect 'curl-over' with b-crimps
> is a bit problematic . . . especially if the
> terminal material is thick. My friend Dave
> Swartzendruber used to sell that fuse block
> to Ford Bronco restoration enthusiasts . . .
> I'll drop Dave a note and see what his
> experience was with those parts.
>
> Do you have or can you get any extra terminals
> as loose parts?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455777#455777
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Hi;
I suggest the following sequence:
1. Strip off about 5/8" to bare the conductor.
2. Turn the bare conductor back over the insulation to guarantee good contact
within the terminal.
3. I noticed there is too much flare on your terminals, so close the flare to
at least parallel with pliers. If you don't do this the terminal won't enter
the die properly.
4. Insert the wire into the terminal with the bare conductor deepest into the
terminal.
5. Crimp the terminal. The final result should look like a U with the legs turned
inward almost 180 degrees. These turned inward legs probably will cut through
the insulation and make contact with the conductor. They're supposed to,
but with the method outlined the connection will function regardless.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 5:08:42 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper
Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455777#455777
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C 200G Alternator |
| From: | Clive Richards <stephencliverichards(at)gmail.com> |
Efraim I have since checked & found we actually fitted the B & C 200G
alternator to our 0200 12.5 amp output not smaller as I thought.
From what you have said your continental starter may be operated by a
mechanical cable pull to start direct to a power switch by the starter, you
could retain this if you wish. I assume this uses battery negative earth as
current systems.
Clive
On 29 April 2016 at 18:25, Efraim Otero wrote:
> Dear All:
> I bought a 200G alternador to install a in my wooden celebrity biplane=C2
=B4s
> O200 Continental engine. It has a Skytec Starter that is powered by a
> powersonic 12 V 18 AmpHr Battery.
> I received a schematic drawing for a simple day VFR electrical system
> (attached).
>
>
> I have some very newbie questions:
>
> 1) I received an =9Cinline fuse holder=9D picture also attach
ed. This comes be
>
>
> This goes between and cabled to the alternador B lead to carry that 15
> amp fuse before the firewall and the voltaje regulator?
> If so, how do I connect it_ do I cut the red wire and splice it to the on
e
> coming out of the alternator? What gauge aire should I use as there is no
> mention of any AWG size?
>
> 2) What wire to use between the capacitar and the S8005-1? 14 AWG same as
> ground?
> 3) in the S8005-1 what does that =9CCOM=9D diagram mean?
> 4) The power distribuci=C3=B3n bus: can I use a fuse block with fast on
tabs?
> 5) my battery is conecten directly to the starter. Should I reroute the
> negative pole to ground? What soul I use as ground, the steel firewall? T
he
> steel/aluminum landing gear?
> 6) how/where does the starter fit in this diagram?
>
> Please help as you can see I am clueless about electriza systems
(even
> though I read Bob=C2=B4s bookI feel like I=C2=B4m being taught
in Russian! That is
> obviously my very own weakeness not the book=C2=B4s!!!!)
>
> Thank you all,
>
> Ephraim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Thanks Joe.
> Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Thanks Stu, I'll give it a try.
On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 8:33 PM, wrote:
>
>
> Hi;
> I suggest the following sequence:
> 1. Strip off about 5/8" to bare the conductor.
> 2. Turn the bare conductor back over the insulation to guarantee good
> contact within the terminal.
> 3. I noticed there is too much flare on your terminals, so close the
> flare to at least parallel with pliers. If you don't do this the terminal
> won't enter the die properly.
> 4. Insert the wire into the terminal with the bare conductor deepest into
> the terminal.
> 5. Crimp the terminal. The final result should look like a U with the
> legs turned inward almost 180 degrees. These turned inward legs probably
> will cut through the insulation and make contact with the conductor.
> They're supposed to, but with the method outlined the connection will
> function regardless.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455777#455777
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 07:08 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
>
>Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
I poked around on there a bit and didn't
find them . . . can you shoot me a link?
Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
They are showing a different part number than mouser, but this looks like
them:
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/30038/Delphi-12020334-Pack-Con-Female-Loose-Terminal-/
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 07:08 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
>
>
> Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
>
>
> I poked around on there a bit and didn't
> find them . . . can you shoot me a link?
> Thanks!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Efraim Otero <efraim.otero(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 200G Alternator |
Clive:
Thank you for your feedback. I have an O 200 with a skytec lightweight
starter that came with the plane when I bought it.
The battery is a powersonic 12 v 18 Ah. I have a starter switch and a
battery switch plus a key switch for both mags and start. I just want to
charge the battery and run the transponder which dar=C3=A1s about 210
milliamps. I have a coms panel transceiver, Flightline 760 VHF and I am
debating whether installing my Sporty=99s SP400 handheld (for VOR
and ILS nav crosschecking:). Other than that I need a few USB
charging porta for ipad and iphone. No lights. So I think the loads will
be light.
Any thoughts?
Thank you all.
E
> On May 3, 2016, at 5:54 AM, Clive Richards
wrote:
>
> Efraim I have since checked & found we actually fitted the B & C 200G
alternator to our 0200 12.5 amp output not smaller as I thought.
=46rom what you have said your continental starter may be operated by a
mechanical cable pull to start direct to a power switch by the starter,
you could retain this if you wish. I assume this uses battery negative
earth as current systems.
> Clive
>
> On 29 April 2016 at 18:25, Efraim Otero > wrote:
> Dear All:
> I bought a 200G alternador to install a in my wooden celebrity
biplane=C2=B4s O200 Continental engine. It has a Skytec Starter that is
powered by a powersonic 12 V 18 AmpHr Battery.
> I received a schematic drawing for a simple day VFR electrical system
(attached).
>
>
>
>
> I have some very newbie questions:
>
> 1) I received an =9Cinline fuse holder=9D picture also
attached. This comes be
>
>
>
> This goes between and cabled to the alternador B lead to carry that
15 amp fuse before the firewall and the voltaje regulator?
> If so, how do I connect it_ do I cut the red wire and splice it to the
one coming out of the alternator? What gauge aire should I use as there
is no mention of any AWG size?
>
> 2) What wire to use between the capacitar and the S8005-1? 14 AWG same
as ground?
> 3) in the S8005-1 what does that =9CCOM=9D diagram mean?
> 4) The power distribuci=C3=B3n bus: can I use a fuse block with fast
on tabs?
> 5) my battery is conecten directly to the starter. Should I reroute
the negative pole to ground? What soul I use as ground, the steel
firewall? The steel/aluminum landing gear?
> 6) how/where does the starter fit in this diagram?
>
> Please help as you can see I am clueless about electriza
systems (even though I read Bob=C2=B4s bookI feel like I=C2=B4m
being taught in Russian! That is obviously my very own weakeness not
the book=C2=B4s!!!!)
>
> Thank you all,
>
> Ephraim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
What's the simplest way to driving two 24v solenoids of 7w each, from my 12v system?
Thanks,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455802#455802
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Stu;
If I interpret your explanation correctly, you're advocating trapping the
insulation along with the wire strands in the wire part of the crimp?? If this
is the case DO NOT DO IT. The wire part of the crimp is intended to provide a
homogeneous gas tight mass of copper for long term electrical continuity. Having
insulation material within this portion of the crimp will seriously compromise
the integrity of the connection by allowing air and moisture infiltration. The
insulation should only be within the insulation portion of the crimp and ONLY
the bare copper strands should be in the wire portion of the crimp.
Bob McC
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
> Date: May 3, 2016 at 12:33 AM
>
>
>
> Hi;
> I suggest the following sequence:
> 1. Strip off about 5/8" to bare the conductor.
> 2. Turn the bare conductor back over the insulation to guarantee good contact
> within the terminal.
> 3. I noticed there is too much flare on your terminals, so close the flare to
> at least parallel with pliers. If you don't do this the terminal won't enter
> the die properly.
> 4. Insert the wire into the terminal with the bare conductor deepest into the
> terminal.
> 5. Crimp the terminal. The final result should look like a U with the legs
> turned inward almost 180 degrees. These turned inward legs probably will cut
> through the insulation and make contact with the conductor. They're supposed
> to, but with the method outlined the connection will function regardless.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 5:08:42 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper
>
>
> Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455777#455777
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I agree with Bob McC. Do not crimp insulation and bare wire together.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455812#455812
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 11:04 AM 5/3/2016, you wrote:
>
>What's the simplest way to driving two 24v solenoids of 7w each,
>from my 12v system?
What kind of solenoids? The 'simplest' is probably
to change out for 12v devices. An 'up-converter'
is parts intensive and potential radio noise
source.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 10:41 AM 5/3/2016, you wrote:
>They are showing a different part number than mouser, but this looks
>like them:
>
>https://www.waytekwire.com/item/30038/Delphi-12020334-Pack-Con-Female-Loose-Terminal-/
aha! thanks. got some on order . . . but my sense
is that these are no different than the broad
family of open barrel terminals. I'll play with
them a bit and perhaps do a comic-book on them
. . . and yes . . . gas-tight, metal on metal
joints in the wire grip is the design goal.
Gentle bear-hug in the insulation grip. Here's
a similar process on a smaller scale.
http://tinyurl.com/9c444zm
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 11:04 AM, jonlaury wrote:
>
> What's the simplest way to driving two 24v solenoids of 7w each, from my
> 12v system?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
At the risk of sounding flippant, the simplest way is to replace them with
12v solenoids.
What do they control; are they mechanical actuators, or contactors for
handling higher current than the control can handle? If they are actuators
and you can identify them by part number, you might even be able to get 12v
coils for them.
If all the above fails, google for '12v to 24v converter', or just search
ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Step-Up-to-24V-3A-72W-/130539974423?hash=item1e64c9ef17:m:mxx-mrNrqLUZYfP7BAucyNA
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Bob, I used your instructions for crimping regular molex terminals and it
all worked perfectly, but these thicker, tougher terminals just won't
cooperate. Here's a link on delphi to a "crimp information sheet"
http://delphi.com/docs/default-source/ecatalog-documents/12131456-crimpinformationsheet-pdf.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=0
I could not find anything helpful on it.
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:41 AM 5/3/2016, you wrote:
>
> They are showing a different part number than mouser, but this looks like
> them:
>
>
> https://www.waytekwire.com/item/30038/Delphi-12020334-Pack-Con-Female-Loose-Terminal-/
>
>
> aha! thanks. got some on order . . . but my sense
> is that these are no different than the broad
> family of open barrel terminals. I'll play with
> them a bit and perhaps do a comic-book on them
>
> . . . and yes . . . gas-tight, metal on metal
> joints in the wire grip is the design goal.
> Gentle bear-hug in the insulation grip. Here's
> a similar process on a smaller scale.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/9c444zm
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 02:24 PM 5/3/2016, you wrote:
>Bob, I used your instructions for crimping regular molex terminals
>and it all worked perfectly, but these thicker, tougher terminals
>just won't cooperate. Here's a link on delphi to a "crimp information sheet"
>
><http://delphi.com/docs/default-source/ecatalog-documents/12131456-crimpinformationsheet-pdf.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=0>http://delphi.com/docs/default-source/ecatalog-documents/12131456-crimpinformationsheet-pdf.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=0
>
>I could not find anything helpful on it.
Me neither . . . as soon as my samples
are in, I'll get some hands-on calibration
for the task. Watch this space . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
I've been able to further determine that these terminals are "Series III
Pack-Con" variety and have ordered an expensive crimper that is supposed to
work on them. Soon I will be opening a lightly used crimper store.
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:42 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> I agree with Bob McC. Do not crimp insulation and bare wire together.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455812#455812
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
i am building a rv12 and i am putting a set of led land lights and led nav/
strobes.vans provides airframe grounds for their lights. of course the
instructions i got with mine were for wires to ground. no shielded wire as
mfgr said not needed. man, those airframe grounds look so easy. am i
risking noise?
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe ground |
At 06:36 PM 5/3/2016, you wrote:
>i am building a rv12 and i am putting a set of led land lights and
>led nav/ strobes.vans provides airframe grounds for their lights. of
>course the instructions i got with mine were for wires to ground. no
>shielded wire as mfgr said not needed. man, those airframe grounds
>look so easy. am i risking noise?
No. These things are not strong CONDUCTED
antagonists and controlling radiated emissions
at the landing light's enclosure is stone
simple. Follow the instructions . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airframe ground |
| From: | bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
hot dog!
thanks bob
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 06:36 PM 5/3/2016, you wrote:
>
> i am building a rv12 and i am putting a set of led land lights and led
> nav/ strobes.vans provides airframe grounds for their lights. of course the
> instructions i got with mine were for wires to ground. no shielded wire as
> mfgr said not needed. man, those airframe grounds look so easy. am i
> risking noise?
>
>
> No. These things are not strong CONDUCTED
> antagonists and controlling radiated emissions
> at the landing light's enclosure is stone
> simple. Follow the instructions . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Hi Bob;
I may have entered the conversation late, but was commenting on ignition wires.
I will recheck mine and see if I have done anything wrong.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 10:06:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper
Stu;
If I interpret your explanation correctly, you're advocating trapping the
insulation along with the wire strands in the wire part of the crimp?? If this
is the case DO NOT DO IT. The wire part of the crimp is intended to provide a
homogeneous gas tight mass of copper for long term electrical continuity. Having
insulation material within this portion of the crimp will seriously compromise
the integrity of the connection by allowing air and moisture infiltration. The
insulation should only be within the insulation portion of the crimp and ONLY
the bare copper strands should be in the wire portion of the crimp.
Bob McC
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
> Date: May 3, 2016 at 12:33 AM
>
>
>
> Hi;
> I suggest the following sequence:
> 1. Strip off about 5/8" to bare the conductor.
> 2. Turn the bare conductor back over the insulation to guarantee good contact
> within the terminal.
> 3. I noticed there is too much flare on your terminals, so close the flare to
> at least parallel with pliers. If you don't do this the terminal won't enter
> the die properly.
> 4. Insert the wire into the terminal with the bare conductor deepest into the
> terminal.
> 5. Crimp the terminal. The final result should look like a U with the legs
> turned inward almost 180 degrees. These turned inward legs probably will cut
> through the insulation and make contact with the conductor. They're supposed
> to, but with the method outlined the connection will function regardless.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 5:08:42 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper
>
>
> Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455777#455777
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | WTB Wiring Tools & Stuff |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
Folks,
I was about to order tools but thought that I ought to check here first,
and see if any of you want to shed an excess tool or two. So far, I know
that I need:
- Wire stripper such as the Stripmaster that strips 16-26 AWG
- Coax connector crimper, specifically to put connectors on RG-58
I am part way through building a wire book so I don't have definite lengths
for various kinds of wire but here is what I have so far:
- RG-58, roughly 70 feet
- 18 AWG red and black wire, a bunch
- 22 AWG (or so) signal wire, single strand, twisted pairs, whatever, a
bunch more
- Faston connectors, solder type, a bunch
Let me know if I can help you clean out your basement :-)
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WTB Wiring Tools & Stuff |
| From: | don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com> |
No tools for sale, but a few suggestions.
1 replace the rg58 with rg400. 58 IIRC is solid core and breaks easily from
vibration.
2 replace solder on fast on with real AMP crimp on faston. The solder on
are hard to keep the solder from wicking up the wire resulting in a hard
point that will break from vibration.
Just my .02 cents worth.
On May 4, 2016 8:37 AM, "Art Zemon" wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I was about to order tools but thought that I ought to check here first,
> and see if any of you want to shed an excess tool or two. So far, I know
> that I need:
>
> - Wire stripper such as the Stripmaster that strips 16-26 AWG
> - Coax connector crimper, specifically to put connectors on RG-58
>
> I am part way through building a wire book so I don't have definite
> lengths for various kinds of wire but here is what I have so far:
>
> - RG-58, roughly 70 feet
> - 18 AWG red and black wire, a bunch
> - 22 AWG (or so) signal wire, single strand, twisted pairs, whatever,
> a bunch more
> - Faston connectors, solder type, a bunch
>
> Let me know if I can help you clean out your basement :-)
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WTB Wiring Tools & Stuff |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
TmVpdGhlciBpcyBwcmVjaXNlbHkgY29ycmVjdC4gUkc1OCBpcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgYm90aCBzb2xp
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ZGVyZWQgY29ubmVjdG9ycy4gQ3JpbXBzIGFyZSBhIGxvdCBmYXN0ZXIgKGFuZCBtb3JlIGV4cGVu
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UmU6IEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0OiBXVEIgV2lyaW5nIFRvb2xzICYgU3R1ZmYgPC9kaXY+PGRp
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | WTB Wiring Tools & Stuff |
I would like to vote for the crimp. Properly done aircraft quality
faston all but totally eliminate the stress risers and are much easier
to get right for the normal person. I used a lot of Solder in my
airplane and I worry about those connections much more than my fastons.
But there is a time and place for everything. Pick the best solution
you can for each task.
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie England
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WTB Wiring Tools & Stuff
Neither is precisely correct. RG58 is available both solid & stranded,
and crimps have stress risers just like soldered connectors. Crimps are
a lot faster (and more expensive), though.
-------- Original message --------
From: don van santen
Date:05/04/2016 3:45 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WTB Wiring Tools & Stuff
No tools for sale, but a few suggestions.
1 replace the rg58 with rg400. 58 IIRC is solid core and breaks easily
from vibration.
2 replace solder on fast on with real AMP crimp on faston. The solder on
are hard to keep the solder from wicking up the wire resulting in a hard
point that will break from vibration.
Just my .02 cents worth.
On May 4, 2016 8:37 AM, "Art Zemon" wrote:
Folks,
I was about to order tools but thought that I ought to check here first,
and see if any of you want to shed an excess tool or two. So far, I know
that I need:
* Wire stripper such as the Stripmaster that strips 16-26 AWG
* Coax connector crimper, specifically to put connectors on RG-58
I am part way through building a wire book so I don't have definite
lengths for various kinds of wire but here is what I have so far:
* RG-58, roughly 70 feet
* 18 AWG red and black wire, a bunch
* 22 AWG (or so) signal wire, single strand, twisted pairs, whatever, a
bunch more
* Faston connectors, solder type, a bunch
Let me know if I can help you clean out your basement :-)
-- Art Z.
--
<http://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WTB Wiring Tools & Stuff |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
Please folks... I'm not trying to start arguments about construction
materials or techniques. Unless you have self-installing cable or
connectors... you know, the ones where you pour them onto the floor and
drink beer while they assemble themselves into a flawless wiring harness...
pre-installed inside the airplane. :-)
Seriously, I'm just looking to buy stuff, not debate anything.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 3:45 PM, don van santen
wrote:
> No tools for sale, but a few suggestions.
>
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WTB Wiring Tools & Stuff |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
RG-58 comes in both versions, solid and braided. In most cases, properly
supported cable has next to no flexing. It is a fine, and much cheaper
solution for VHF frequencies unless there is a noise generator nearby.
Insulation material isn't as good as RG-400, and only single shield.
however I have seen many a type certified aircraft with factory original
RG-58 that is still performing fine.
However, for transponders, DME and GPS you need better materials, better
shielding because they are operating in the 1 Ghz freq range. RG-142 was
used for a long time, with, IIRC solid core.
RG-400 is braided, more flexible, lighter and well shielded.
Just depends on your budget and application. about 50 cents vs 3-4 bucks
a foot.
On 5/4/2016 1:45 PM, don van santen wrote:
> No tools for sale, but a few suggestions.
> 1 replace the rg58 with rg400. 58 IIRC is solid core and breaks easily
> from vibration.
> 2 replace solder on fast on with real AMP crimp on faston. The solder on
> are hard to keep the solder from wicking up the wire resulting in a hard
> point that will break from vibration.
>
> Just my .02 cents worth.
>
> On May 4, 2016 8:37 AM, "Art Zemon" > wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I was about to order tools but thought that I ought to check here
> first, and see if any of you want to shed an excess tool or two. So
> far, I know that I need:
>
> * Wire stripper such as the Stripmaster that strips 16-26 AWG
> * Coax connector crimper, specifically to put connectors on RG-58
>
> I am part way through building a wire book so I don't have definite
> lengths for various kinds of wire but here is what I have so far:
>
> * RG-58, roughly 70 feet
> * 18 AWG red and black wire, a bunch
> * 22 AWG (or so) signal wire, single strand, twisted pairs,
> whatever, a bunch more
> * Faston connectors, solder type, a bunch
>
> Let me know if I can help you clean out your basement :-)
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for
> myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Hi Bob;
Thanks.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 10:50:49 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper
Those are fuse terminals.
-------- Original message --------
From: ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
Date:05/04/2016 10:11 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper
Hi Bob;
I may have entered the conversation late, but was commenting on ignition wi
res.=C2- I will recheck mine and see if I have done anything wrong.
Cheers!=C2-=C2- Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 10:06:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper
sympatico.ca>
Stu;
If I interpret your explanation correctly, you're advocating trapping the
insulation along with the wire strands in the wire part of the crimp?? If t
his
is the case DO NOT DO IT. The wire part of the crimp is intended to provide
a
homogeneous gas tight mass of copper for long term electrical continuity. H
aving
insulation material within this portion of the crimp will seriously comprom
ise
the integrity of the connection by allowing air and moisture infiltration.
The
insulation should only be within the insulation portion of the crimp and ON
LY
the bare copper strands should be in the wire portion of the crimp.
Bob McC
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
> Date: May 3, 2016 at 12:33 AM
>
>
>
> Hi;
> I suggest the following sequence:
> 1. Strip off about 5/8" to bare the conductor.
> 2. Turn the bare conductor back over the insulation to guarantee good con
tact
> within the terminal.
> 3. I noticed there is too much flare on your terminals, so close the flar
e to
> at least parallel with pliers. If you don't do this the terminal won't en
ter
> the die properly.
> 4. Insert the wire into the terminal with the bare conductor deepest into
the
> terminal.
> 5. Crimp the terminal. The final result should look like a U with the leg
s
> turned inward almost 180 degrees. These turned inward legs probably will
cut
> through the insulation and make contact with the conductor. They're suppo
sed
> to, but with the method outlined the connection will function regardless.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 5:08:42 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper
>
>
> Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455777#455777
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
ric-List Email Forum -
===========
-=C2-=C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
===========
-=C2- - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
===========
- - List Contribution Web Site -
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 306, Charlotte 2016 Seminar is a go |
I'll be making reservations to day for travel
to Charlotte for an AeroElectric Connection
weekend seminar on the
Lincolnton-Lincoln County Regional Airport
http://tinyurl.com/h67yba9
Here's a rundown of the program material.
http://tinyurl.com/z5hdcq2
There will no doubt be some evening gatherings
for the purpose of good eating and better
airplane-speak. Additional reservations
or even walk-ins are welcome.
I'll be updating the program materials to address
some of the newest kids on the block . . . lithium
batteries and stock-automotive alternators.
This is a no-risk venture folks. All AeroElectric
Connection products come with a 100%, money back
guarantee . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
Folks,
Is there any reason to form the positive and negative power wires for my
devices into a twisted pair?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Pairs |
Personally I do that because it keeps the wires very close together,
minimizing loop area (which is proportional to magnetic field and
susceptibility to magnetic fields) but it=99s mostly just a
neatness thing.
=94Daniel
> On May 5, 2016, at 9:49 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Is there any reason to form the positive and negative power wires for
my devices into a twisted pair?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Pairs |
At 09:49 PM 5/5/2016, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Is there any reason to form the positive and negative power wires
>for my devices into a twisted pair?
Never seen it done. If you have a potentially
vulnerable/antagonistic system signal/power line
then installation instructions will call out
special wiring techniques for maintaining
electromagnetic Nirvana.
Devices intended for use in electronically
complex machines will have been evaluated
for EMC issues as either victims or antagonists.
It is the designers responsibility to
fire-wall deleterious at the boundaries
(connectors and enclosures) of their
product.
When we test electro-whizzies out in the RF
laboratory, interconnecting wires that might
also offer avenues of ingress/egress for
RF energy are laid out for MAXIMUM vulnerability.
When tested under such conditions, the product
must demonstrate an ability to live harmoniously
amongst other devices with no special attention
on the part of the installer.
Of course certain energy pathways are inherently
vulnerable or antagonistic . . . those pathways
will be identified and properly managed by
shielded wires, coaxial cable or maybe even
a fiber bundle (glass is already common in
some home entertainment systems. You can
replace all the cat-5 cables in your home
network with glass right now see
http://tinyurl.com/zt8hqgb )
But I don't see it coming to the panel of any
small airplanes soon . . . it's simply
too easy and less complex to run a few shielded
wires between cooperating black boxes . . .
and the instructions will tell you how to do
it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Pairs |
At 09:49 PM 5/5/2016, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Is there any reason to form the positive and negative power wires
>for my devices into a twisted pair?
Never seen it done. If you have a potentially
vulnerable/antagonistic system signal/power line
then installation instructions will call out
special wiring techniques for maintaining
electromagnetic Nirvana.
Devices intended for use in electronically
complex machines will have been evaluated
for EMC issues as either victims or antagonists.
It is the designers responsibility to
fire-wall deleterious at the boundaries
(connectors and enclosures) of their
product.
When we test electro-whizzies out in the RF
laboratory, interconnecting wires that might
also offer avenues of ingress/egress for
RF energy are laid out for MAXIMUM vulnerability.
When tested under such conditions, the product
must demonstrate an ability to live harmoniously
amongst other devices with no special attention
on the part of the installer.
Of course certain energy pathways are inherently
vulnerable or antagonistic . . . those pathways
will be identified and properly managed by
shielded wires, coaxial cable or maybe even
a fiber bundle (glass is already common in
some home entertainment systems. You can
replace all the cat-5 cables in your home
network with glass right now see
http://tinyurl.com/zt8hqgb )
But I don't see it coming to the panel of any
small airplanes soon . . . it's simply
too easy and less complex to run a few shielded
wires between cooperating black boxes . . .
and the instructions will tell you how to do
it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Pairs |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 7:27 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 09:49 PM 5/5/2016, you wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Is there any reason to form the positive and negative power wires for my
> devices into a twisted pair?
>
>
> Never seen it done. If you have a potentially
> vulnerable/antagonistic system signal/power line
> then installation instructions will call out
> special wiring techniques for maintaining
> electromagnetic Nirvana.
>
> Devices intended for use in electronically
> complex machines will have been evaluated
> for EMC issues as either victims or antagonists.
> It is the designers responsibility to
> fire-wall deleterious at the boundaries
> (connectors and enclosures) of their
> product.
>
> When we test electro-whizzies out in the RF
> laboratory, interconnecting wires that might
> also offer avenues of ingress/egress for
> RF energy are laid out for MAXIMUM vulnerability.
> When tested under such conditions, the product
> must demonstrate an ability to live harmoniously
> amongst other devices with no special attention
> on the part of the installer.
>
Very interesting! Thanks for explaining.
>
> You can
> replace all the cat-5 cables in your home
> network with glass right now see
> http://tinyurl.com/zt8hqgb )
>
Neat device but I probably won't... I'm lazy and replacing well functioning
CAT-5 infrastructure is gonna happen right after I get around to dusting my
stereo wires and changing my turn signal fluid.. :-)
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 12:50 PM 5/4/2016, you wrote:
>Those are fuse terminals.
>
My samples came in last week but didn't get
to work with them until today. Here are
the results of terminal installations selecting
from the same spectrum of in-expensive b-crimp
tools in my collection.
The terminal pictured is that 12020334 Pack-Con
Series III female terminal used in a variety
of fuse blocks, relay harness connectors, etc.
This is an 18-20AWG rated device.
I've installed several onto 20AWG Tefzel
with b-crimp tools like the BCT-1, Amp Service
Tool-II, Molex etc.
I was able to produce a satisfactory
wire-grip with pull-out resistance
exceeding 10 pounds.
Emacs!
Given that these terminals are engineered
for automotive PVC and similar instalations,
the insulation grip flags are a bit
long for Tefzel. I prefer not to use
a b-crimp die but, instead . . .
Emacs!
Emacs!
I mold these too-long flags into the 'bear-
hug' I have illustrated for the Mate-n-Lok
and Molex open barrel pins. Yeah, the meal on
this pins is a bit thicker but they behaved
quite civilly with the tools I've used
for years.
Emacs!
This last shot shows the larger 16-14AWG
terminal installed on a piece of 14AWG
automotive and 16AWG Tefzel with satisfactory
results.
Emacs!
No special tools needed . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Thanks for the report Bob. I wish I could duplicate your results, but on
all of mine either the wires pull out easily, or if I use a smaller setting
it mangles the terminal. I am assuming that your 10 pound pull out is prior
to the insulation crimp, right? I have another tool ordered which should be
here this week. I am hoping it works a lot better than the three I have
already tried.
On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 12:50 PM 5/4/2016, you wrote:
>
> Those are fuse terminals.
>
>
> My samples came in last week but didn't get
> to work with them until today. Here are
> the results of terminal installations selecting
> from the same spectrum of in-expensive b-crimp
> tools in my collection.
>
> The terminal pictured is that 12020334 Pack-Con
> Series III female terminal used in a variety
> of fuse blocks, relay harness connectors, etc.
> This is an 18-20AWG rated device.
>
> I've installed several onto 20AWG Tefzel
> with b-crimp tools like the BCT-1, Amp Service
> Tool-II, Molex etc.
>
> I was able to produce a satisfactory
> wire-grip with pull-out resistance
> exceeding 10 pounds.
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> Given that these terminals are engineered
> for automotive PVC and similar instalations,
> the insulation grip flags are a bit
> long for Tefzel. I prefer not to use
> a b-crimp die but, instead . . .
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> I mold these too-long flags into the 'bear-
> hug' I have illustrated for the Mate-n-Lok
> and Molex open barrel pins. Yeah, the meal on
> this pins is a bit thicker but they behaved
> quite civilly with the tools I've used
> for years.
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> This last shot shows the larger 16-14AWG
> terminal installed on a piece of 14AWG
> automotive and 16AWG Tefzel with satisfactory
> results.
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> No special tools needed . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 02:54 PM 5/8/2016, you wrote:
>Thanks for the report Bob. I wish I could duplicate your results,
>but on all of mine either the wires pull out easily, or if I use a
>smaller setting it mangles the terminal. I am assuming that your 10
>pound pull out is prior to the insulation crimp, right? I have
>another tool ordered which should be here this week. I am hoping it
>works a lot better than the three I have already tried.
Can you send me some pictures of the not-so-useful
tool?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 02:54 PM 5/8/2016, you wrote:
>Thanks for the report Bob. I wish I could duplicate your results,
>but on all of mine either the wires pull out easily, or if I use a
>smaller setting it mangles the terminal. I am assuming that your 10
>pound pull out is prior to the insulation crimp, right? I have
>another tool ordered which should be here this week. I am hoping it
>works a lot better than the three I have already tried.
Can you send me some pictures of the not-so-useful
tool?
Emacs!
My favorite tool has no 'settings'. There
are three b-crimp pockets which are generally
adequate for terminals accepting wires from
14 AWG to 22 AWG.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
That looks similar to what I have tried. Attached is a photo showing the
three I have used so far. Two fairly inexpensive and one fairly expensive.
On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 02:54 PM 5/8/2016, you wrote:
>
> Thanks for the report Bob. I wish I could duplicate your results, but on
> all of mine either the wires pull out easily, or if I use a smaller setting
> it mangles the terminal. I am assuming that your 10 pound pull out is prior
> to the insulation crimp, right? I have another tool ordered which should be
> here this week. I am hoping it works a lot better than the three I have
> already tried.
>
>
> Can you send me some pictures of the not-so-useful
> tool?
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> My favorite tool has no 'settings'. There
> are three b-crimp pockets which are generally
> adequate for terminals accepting wires from
> 14 AWG to 22 AWG.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 06:01 PM 5/8/2016, you wrote:
>That looks similar to what I have tried. Attached is a photo showing
>the three I have used so far. Two fairly inexpensive and one fairly expensive.
The one on the right should work. Are you
sure the terminal wasn't rolling over in
the die before the punch starts to curl
the ends over onto the wires?
The "D" die should do the 18-20 AWG terminals.
Use the jaw-tips to partially close the
wire grips so that they are parallel to each
other. Then position in the die as shown, bring
the punch down on it with just enough force
to grip it. Slip the strands into the grip
region and put the mash on it. Use as much
hand-pressure as you can muster.
Pre-positioning as suggested should keep
the terminal from rolling as the punch
pushes it into the die.
Emacs!
The rachet handled tool is undoubtedly set
up for a certain line of terminals and mating
wires. It will have a fixed crimp height, thus
limited in the range of wires/terminals.
The tool above stops reducing crimp height only
after you run out of snort, hence more accommodating
of variability in materials.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
The rachet handled tool is undoubtedly set
up for a certain line of terminals and mating
wires. It will have a fixed crimp height, thus
limited in the range of wires/terminals.
Oops, obviously no ratchet . . . just a lot
of mechanical advantage typical of that
mechanism. But I suspect both of those die
pockets are too big for the terminals
under discussion.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Oops, obviously no ratchet . . . just a lot
of mechanical advantage typical of that
mechanism. But I suspect both of those die
pockets are too big for the terminals
under discussion.
Just guessing but the middle tool seems
to be for the Delphi 56 series terminals
and is probably an earlier version of this
tool.
Emacs!
for these terminals.
Emacs!
If you turn your tool over, are the punch/die
pairs a different size? That tool looks like
it does wire and insulation in a single stroke.
Those tools will generally have smaller cross-
sections on the wire grip side . . . a bit
larger on the insulation side.
Definitely problematic for the task at hand . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Thanks Bob. I have your instruction sheet, so I used it when trying to
crimp. As I said, I didn't have any trouble with the lighter gauge molex
terminals. I will have a better quality crimper this week and according to
the specs it is supposed to work on these exact terminals. As I am running
low on terminals I will wait for those crimpers. They are very similar to
the Delphi crimpers in the picture, but this one is definitely supposed to
be for these exact terminals.
On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>
> * Oops, obviously no ratchet . . . just a lot of mechanical advantage
> typical of that mechanism. But I suspect both of those die pockets are
> too big for the terminals under discussion. *Just guessing but the
> middle tool seems
> to be for the Delphi 56 series terminals
> and is probably an earlier version of this
> tool.
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> for these terminals.
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> If you turn your tool over, are the punch/die
> pairs a different size? That tool looks like
> it does wire and insulation in a single stroke.
> Those tools will generally have smaller cross-
> sections on the wire grip side . . . a bit
> larger on the insulation side.
>
> Definitely problematic for the task at hand . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 08:53 PM 5/8/2016, you wrote:
>Thanks Bob. I have your instruction sheet, so I used it when trying
>to crimp. As I said, I didn't have any trouble with the lighter
>gauge molex terminals. I will have a better quality crimper this
>week and according to the specs it is supposed to work on these
>exact terminals. As I am running low on terminals I will wait for
>those crimpers. They are very similar to the Delphi crimpers in the
>picture, but this one is definitely supposed to be for these exact terminals.
I got lots of them. If you run low, drop
me your mailing address.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
The new crimper worked perfectly, first time. Data on crimper: Purchased
from crimpsupply.com, SKU 37A11001, Metri-Pack/56 Series/Pack-Con Crimping
Tool #6285847. This crimper does not have a slot for the insulation crimp,
but one of my other crimpers does. I probably got a little aggressive with
the insulation crimp, will correct that on futures. The main thing is that
the wire crimp worked perfectly, just as it should, giving a strong, tight
good looking crimp. Pictures attached.
On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 7:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 08:53 PM 5/8/2016, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob. I have your instruction sheet, so I used it when trying to
> crimp. As I said, I didn't have any trouble with the lighter gauge molex
> terminals. I will have a better quality crimper this week and according to
> the specs it is supposed to work on these exact terminals. As I am running
> low on terminals I will wait for those crimpers. They are very similar to
> the Delphi crimpers in the picture, but this one is definitely supposed to
> be for these exact terminals.
>
>
> I got lots of them. If you run low, drop
> me your mailing address.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
At 02:26 PM 5/9/2016, you wrote:
>The new crimper worked perfectly, first time.
>Data on crimper: Purchased from
><http://crimpsupply.com>crimpsupply.com, SKU
>37A11001, Metri-Pack/56 Series/Pack-Con Crimping
>Tool #6285847. This crimper does not have a slot
>for the insulation crimp, but one of my other
>crimpers does. I probably got a little
>aggressive with the insulation crimp, will
>correct that on futures. The main thing is that
>the wire crimp worked perfectly, just as it
>should, giving a strong, tight good looking crimp. Pictures attached.=C2
Good show!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
Folks,
This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an
opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my
electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was
warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here
are the specs:
- 120V AC
- charger draws 12A
- 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
- cord is 25 feet long
- cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | "racerjerry" <gnking2(at)verizon.net> |
YES, replace with #14 or heavier. With any heating effects like this, make sure
that you do NOT COIL up any loose ends of the extension cord, or the heat will
be concentrated, causing the cord to melt and short out.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456177#456177
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
that is at the max for the cord but not over the rating.a few years ago i
made up some extension cords for 1500 watt heaters and used 12 ga. plenty
of margin there. i guess i would feel better with 12ga. sounds like a one
and done purchase.
funny the connectors aren't warm.
bob noffs
On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:49 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an
> opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my
> electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was
> warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here
> are the specs:
>
> - 120V AC
> - charger draws 12A
> - 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
> - cord is 25 feet long
> - cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
>
> I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Warm Extension Cord |
Was the wire coiled?
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Art
Zemon
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 2:50 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord
Folks,
This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an
opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my
electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was
warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me.
Here are the specs:
* 120V AC
* charger draws 12A
* 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
* cord is 25 feet long
* cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
<http://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
No
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity.
On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" wrote:
> Was the wire coiled?
>
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080
>
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Art Zemon
> *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2016 2:50 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord
>
>
> Folks,
>
>
> This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an
> opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my
> electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was
> warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here
> are the specs:
>
> - 120V AC
> - charger draws 12A
> - 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
> - cord is 25 feet long
> - cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
>
> I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> --
>
> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero> |
| Subject: | Warm Extension Cord |
RXZlbiBpZiB0aGUgZXh0ZW5zaW9uIGNvcmQgd2FzIGNvaWxlZCwgcGFpcmVkIGNvbmR1Y3RvcnMg
d291bGQgZWZmZWN0aXZlbHkgY2FuY2VsIHRoZSBjb2lsIGVmZmVjdOKApg0KDQpuZWFsDQoNCg0K
Tm8NCg0KICAgIC0tIEFydCBaLg0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgcGhvbmUgc28gcGxlYXNlIGV4Y3Vz
ZSB0eXBvcyBhbmQgYnJldml0eS4NCk9uIE1heSAxMywgMjAxNiA4OjMwIEFNLCAiUmVuZSIgPHJl
bmVAZmVsa2VyLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cmVuZUBmZWxrZXIuY29tPj4gd3JvdGU6DQpXYXMgdGhlIHdp
cmUgY29pbGVkPw0KUmVuZScNCjgwMS03MjEtNjA4MDx0ZWw6ODAxLTcyMS02MDgwPg0KRm9sa3Ms
DQpUaGlzIGlzbid0IGFlcm8gYnV0IGl0IGlzIGVsZWN0cmljIHNvIEkgZmlndXJlIHNvbWVvbmUg
aGVyZSB3aWxsIGhhdmUgYW4gb3Bpbmlvbi4gV2hlbiBJIGFtIGF3YXkgZnJvbSBob21lLCBJIHVz
ZSBhbiBleHRlbnNpb24gY29yZCB0byBjaGFyZ2UgbXkgZWxlY3RyaWMgY2FyLiBUb25pZ2h0LCBJ
IG5vdGljZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgd2lyZSAobm90IHRoZSBjb25uZWN0b3JzKSB3YXMgd2FybSB0byB0
aGUgdG91Y2ggd2hlbiBJIHVucGx1Z2dlZCB0aGUgY2FyLiBUaGUgd2FybXRoIHN1cnByaXNlZCBt
ZS4gSGVyZSBhcmUgdGhlIHNwZWNzOg0KDQogICogICAxMjBWIEFDDQogICogICBjaGFyZ2VyIGRy
YXdzIDEyQQ0KICAqICAgMTYgQVdHIGNvbmR1Y3RvcnMgaW4gdGhlIGV4dGVuc2lvbiBjb3JkDQog
ICogICBjb3JkIGlzIDI1IGZlZXQgbG9uZw0KICAqICAgY29yZCB3YXMgYWR2ZXJ0aXNlZCBhcyBz
dWl0YWJsZSBmb3IgdXAgdG8gMTNBDQpJJ20gaW5jbGluZWQgdG8gcmVwbGFjZSB0aGUgY29yZCB3
aXRoIG9uZSB3aXRoIDE0IEFXRyBjb25kdWN0b3JzLiBZZXM/DQpUaGFua3MsDQogICAgLS0gQXJ0
IFouDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Warm Extension Cord |
First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of
control. Melted both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a
camper and the wire did not feel =9Cwarm=9D normally but
left it on the spool because it was a short
distance.spool and wire became one. Needed new spool
and wire..
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal
George
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord
Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would
effectively cancel the coil effect
neal
No
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity.
On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" wrote:
Was the wire coiled?
Rene'
801-721-6080
Folks,
This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an
opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my
electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was
warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me.
Here are the specs:
* 120V AC
* charger draws 12A
* 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
* cord is 25 feet long
* cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ARGOLDMAN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
Greetings Art et al.
Advertised as????. Don't know if I would buy that.
Every wire has a certain resistance per foot (inch-nanometer) look at your
aircraft tables. You seem to be overstressing the wire in that as electron
s
pass through any wire, the resistance to the flow not only creates voltag
e
drop, but that resisted energy is expressed as heat. ( energy is not lost
but is converted)
What you are experiencing is that heat, that you can feel, in this case.
the extension chord wire is of too small a gauge or is too long for your
application.
-- unless the heating is acceptable to the insulation.
I would get a better grade (gauge) of extension chord or shorten it as
much as possible (resistance, remember is per foot etc). Don't coil the ch
ord
as the heat buildup may not have the ability to go into the atmosphere wh
ere
it is harmless (that's where the heat of the engine goes... if it cant--
well.)
Rich
In a message dated 5/13/2016 8:29:27 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
rene(at)felker.com writes:
First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of co
ntrol. Melted
both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a camper and the wi
re
did not feel =9Cwarm=9D normally but left it on the spool beca
use it was a
short distance.spool and wire became one. Needed new
spool and wire..
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal
George
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord
Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would effectivel
y
cancel the coil effect
neal
No
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity.
On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" <_rene(at)felker.com_ (mailto:rene(at)felker.com
)
> wrote:
Was the wire coiled?
Rene'
_801-721-6080_ (tel:801-721-6080)
Folks,
This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an
opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my
electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was
warm to
the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here are the
specs:
* 120V AC
* charger draws 12A
* 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
* cord is 25 feet long
* cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> |
My common sense rule says that if the cord gets warm in the intended use the
n a second rule becomes primary which considers the ability to monitor durin
g use. If I can monitor during the entire time of usage then I can take acti
on if it gets too hot. If the usage can not be monitored then it's damn che
ap insurance and common sense to get a higher rated extension cord.
Bob Reed
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 13, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Rene wrote:
>
> First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of con
trol. Melted both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a camper
and the wire did not feel =9Cwarm=9D normally but left it on th
e spool because it was a short distance.spool and wire bec
ame one. Needed new spool and wire..
>
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect
ric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George
> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord
>
> Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would effectively
cancel the coil effect
>
> neal
>
> No
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity.
>
> On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" wrote:
> Was the wire coiled?
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
> Folks,
> This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an o
pinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my elect
ric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was warm to t
he touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here are the spe
cs:
> 120V AC
> charger draws 12A
> 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
> cord is 25 feet long
> cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
> I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | Eric Page <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
> On May 13, 2016, at 7:55 AM, Neal George w
rote:
> Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would effectively
cancel the coil effect
>
> neal
Avoiding a coil in an extension cord isn't intended to avoid electromagnetic
effects. The problem is that a coiled cord tends to concentrate heat much m
ore than a cord that's stretched out straight.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
Go for 12AWG stranded and mark the cost increase to common sense insurance.
John Cox
On May 13, 2016 01:58, "Art Zemon" wrote:
> Folks,
>
> This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an
> opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my
> electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was
> warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Here
> are the specs:
>
> - 120V AC
> - charger draws 12A
> - 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
> - cord is 25 feet long
> - cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
>
> I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | Lyle Peterson <lyleap(at)centurylink.net> |
I had the same experience as Rene' with a retractable extension cord. I
was sure I had destroyed a brand new cord but fortunately the swollen
insulation contracted.
I was given a long extension cord recently because it was "twisted." On
inspection I determined that it has been over heating causing the
insulation to swell and get loose letting the three wires shift inside
the insulation, probably when the cord was wound around something for
transport to the next task.
I was shopping for an extension cord and checking each cord's capacity.
I was amazed when I noticed that all the cords claimed the same capacity
regardless of the wire gauge. Marketing must have designed the labels
and neither engineering nor risk management ever saw them.
On 5/13/2016 10:26 AM, Rene wrote:
>
> First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of control. Melted
> both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a camper and the
> wire did not feel warm normally but left it on the spool because it
> was a short distance.spool and wire became one. Needed new spool
> and wire..
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Neal George
> *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord
>
> Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would
> effectively cancel the coil effect
>
> neal
>
> No
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity.
>
> On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" > wrote:
>
> Was the wire coiled?
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080
>
> Folks,
>
> This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have
> an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to
> charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the
> connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth
> surprised me. Here are the specs:
>
> * 120V AC
> * charger draws 12A
> * 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
> * cord is 25 feet long
> * cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
>
> I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- Art Z.
>
On 5/13/2016 10:26 AM, Rene wrote:
>
> First hand experiencethe heat build up can go out of control. Melted
> both the cable and a plastic spool it was on. Was on a camper and the
> wire did not feel warm normally but left it on the spool because it
> was a short distance.spool and wire became one. Needed new spool
> and wire..
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Neal George
> *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2016 8:55 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Warm Extension Cord
>
> Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would
> effectively cancel the coil effect
>
> neal
>
> No
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> Sent from my phone so please excuse typos and brevity.
>
> On May 13, 2016 8:30 AM, "Rene" > wrote:
>
> Was the wire coiled?
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080
>
> Folks,
>
> This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have
> an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to
> charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the
> connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth
> surprised me. Here are the specs:
>
> * 120V AC
> * charger draws 12A
> * 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
> * cord is 25 feet long
> * cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
>
> I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- Art Z.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Art,
I'd assume that if you went to the trouble to buy or build an electric
car, you have at least some focus on efficiency. So here's something to
consider. According to one convenient online calculator,
http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html?material=copper&wiresize=13.17&voltage=120&phase=ac&noofconductor=1&distance=25&distanceunit=feet&eres=12&x=47&y=17
16 awg 25 ft 120vac 12A will have ~2.4 volts of drop at the load. That
means you're using 2.4*12=28.8 watts to heat the wire (likely a bit more
than that). So, roughly the equivalent of plugging in a small soldering
iron & leaving it running while the car charges.
Same load with 12 awg: 0.95v drop * 12 = 11.4 watts lost to the wire.
To keep it Aeroelectric related, 'the book' has formulas to do the calcs.
Charlie
On 5/13/2016 6:20 AM, bob noffs wrote:
> that is at the max for the cord but not over the rating.a few years
> ago i made up some extension cords for 1500 watt heaters and used 12
> ga. plenty of margin there. i guess i would feel better with 12ga.
> sounds like a one and done purchase.
> funny the connectors aren't warm.
> bob noffs
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:49 AM, Art Zemon > wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will
> have an opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord
> to charge my electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not
> the connectors) was warm to the touch when I unplugged the car.
> The warmth surprised me. Here are the specs:
>
> * 120V AC
> * charger draws 12A
> * 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
> * cord is 25 feet long
> * cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
>
> I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for
> myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: finding the correct crimper |
Just to add to this thread, it took some digging but I think I finally
pinpointed the correct tool for removing these terminals: "12093078
terminal removal tool." I have one ordered from Zack Electronics.
On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 02:26 PM 5/9/2016, you wrote:
>
> The new crimper worked perfectly, first time. Data on crimper: Purchased
> from crimpsupply.com, SKU 37A11001, Metri-Pack/56 Series/Pack-Con
> Crimping Tool #6285847. This crimper does not have a slot for the
> insulation crimp, but one of my other crimpers does. I probably got a
> little aggressive with the insulation crimp, will correct that on futures
.
> The main thing is that the wire crimp worked perfectly, just as it should
,
> giving a strong, tight good looking crimp. Pictures attached.=C3=82
>
>
> Good show!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | Ed Gilroy <egilroy(at)gmail.com> |
I used the following table from the J1772 specifications to build my
homemade extension cord for my electric car:
Electrical
=A2 Level 1: 14 AWG - 16A
=A2 Level 2: 10 AWG - 30A
=A2 Level 2: 8 AWG - 31 to 74A
=A2 Level 2: 6 AWG - 75 to 99A
I used 10 gauge, it is always just warm to the touch after a few hours of
charging, but not anything I would call hot. I pull 12A on high and 8A on
low at 120V.
On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
> Hi Art,
>
> I'd assume that if you went to the trouble to buy or build an electric
> car, you have at least some focus on efficiency. So here's something to
> consider. According to one convenient online calculator,
>
> http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html?material=copper&
wiresize=13.17&voltage=120&phase=ac&noofconductor=1&distance=25&d
istanceunit=feet&eres=12&x=47&y=17
>
> 16 awg 25 ft 120vac 12A will have ~2.4 volts of drop at the load. That
> means you're using 2.4*12=28.8 watts to heat the wire (likely a bit mor
e
> than that). So, roughly the equivalent of plugging in a small soldering
> iron & leaving it running while the car charges.
>
> Same load with 12 awg: 0.95v drop * 12 = 11.4 watts lost to the wire.
>
> To keep it Aeroelectric related, 'the book' has formulas to do the calcs.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 5/13/2016 6:20 AM, bob noffs wrote:
>
> that is at the max for the cord but not over the rating.a few years ago i
> made up some extension cords for 1500 watt heaters and used 12 ga. plenty
> of margin there. i guess i would feel better with 12ga. sounds like a one
> and done purchase.
> funny the connectors aren't warm.
> bob noffs
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:49 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> This isn't aero but it is electric so I figure someone here will have an
>> opinion. When I am away from home, I use an extension cord to charge my
>> electric car. Tonight, I noticed that the wire (not the connectors) was
>> warm to the touch when I unplugged the car. The warmth surprised me. Her
e
>> are the specs:
>>
>> - 120V AC
>> - charger draws 12A
>> - 16 AWG conductors in the extension cord
>> - cord is 25 feet long
>> - cord was advertised as suitable for up to 13A
>>
>> I'm inclined to replace the cord with one with 14 AWG conductors. Yes?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
>> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Warm Extension Cord |
At 09:55 AM 5/13/2016, you wrote:
>Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired
>conductors would effectively cancel the coil effect=85
You're thinking of magnetic fields around the pair, not
temperature rise. A couple years ago, I was working a
summer fun-fair in a small town south of Wichita with
my son who has a shaved ice business. The curbside
outlet that supplied power to the trailer was only
about 20' away . . . so I only un-rolled about 30'
of 12AWG cord off a stowage reel and hooked up the
trailer. The total load for the trailer was 16A
with the A/C running. Normally, the 12AWG would get
just warm to the touch at that load.
A few hours into the event, the folks working the
booth next to us raised the red flag on smoke rising
from the cord reel. I powered down and unrolled
the cord. The deepest 25 feet of cordage was badly
melted and starting to char in some areas.
The problem was obvious . . . and SHOULD have
been considered by a veteran wire-stringer . . .
but we trashed part of the cord that was MOST
insulated from outside air. Cut it off, replaced
the connector and was back in business about 15
minutes later . . . with remaining cord all laid out
on the ground so it could cool off.
Remember, 20 amps won't burn a 22AWG copper wire
http://tinyurl.com/6qr72fr
in fact, it doesn't even put Tefzel insulation
at risk . . . in the open air. But bundle it up
in any manner that reduces ability to reject heat
and . . .
Emacs!
Here's a bundle of wires that are insulated with the slicone/
fiberglas sleeving. The bundle has two 10AWG conductors that MIGHT
get loaded to 60A under some conditions. Out in the open
air, no sweat . . . or should I say no burn?
I set up a lab test for the boss to deduce the INCREASE in temperature
rise for having been bundled.
Emacs!
Wire under the sleeve was 80 to 115C
hotter than the single strand in open air.
It was hot enough on the outside of the
fiberglas to discolor nylon tie-wraps
Emacs!
and the Tefzel insulation began to loose
its bond at the edges of the wrap
Emacs!
The copper inside was un-affected. As it turns
out, nobody ever installed ALL of the accessories
that would have put the airplane at risk. But it
was more trouble on the drawings to change the
optional equipment list. Only one drawing had
to be changed to upsize the wire. So a mandatory
service bulletin was issued against all aircraft
with that installation and the factory pushed the
upgrade costs off onto the field . . . to fix an
non-issue. Sigh . . .
Anyhow, if you can hold your 14AWG cord in
your hand . . . AND no part of it is deprived
of cooling air . . . then the wire is not
at risk. The weakest link in that system is
the connectors. I've seen several UL approved
15A rated wall outlets fail at 12A loads.
Two in a row in a house I was living in, one
in a house we investigated for a fire of
electrical origins . . . right under where
a 115v window a/c had been installed.
The advice for upsizing is well made . . . to
which would suggest more robust connectors
perhaps of the twist-lock variety.
[]
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Off list contact |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Bob, I don't have a correct email for you anymore. Would you please contact
me off list?
Rick Girard
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill <wtrooper(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off list contact |
Below is the one Bob uses to communicate with us on this list. Is it the
same, or different from your "incorrect" one?
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Richard Girard wrote
:
> Bob, I don't have a correct email for you anymore. Would you please
> contact me off list?
>
> Rick Girard
>
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neal George <neal.george(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
Yeah, short, incomplete response. I know better. Mea Culpa. (did I say that
correctly?)
I assumed the resistive thermal rise and lack of cooling from a pile of cabl
e were a given.
I have foggy memories of stories from an ancient electrical instructor, poss
ibly unfounded, of inexperienced electricians separating A/C phases in condu
it resulting in catastrophic thermal failure...
I'm sorry sir, I'll be quiet. :)
Neal
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 13, 2016, at 4:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
>
> At 09:55 AM 5/13/2016, you wrote:
>> Even if the extension cord was coiled, paired conductors would effectivel
y cancel the coil effect=A1=AD
>
> You're thinking of magnetic fields around the pair, not temperature ris
e.
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
At 10:50 PM 5/13/2016, you wrote:
>Yeah, short, incomplete response. I know better. Mea Culpa. (did I
>say that correctly?)
>
>I assumed the resistive thermal rise and lack of cooling from a pile
>of cable were a given.
>
>I have foggy memories of stories from an ancient electrical
>instructor, possibly unfounded, of inexperienced electricians
>separating A/C phases in conduit resulting in catastrophic thermal failure...
Interesting . . . I'll have to ponder that a bit.
I too have an anecdotal recollection of noises
emanating from overhead conduits when some high-
inrush machine was turned on back in Electro-Mech's
shops.
After mentioning it to one of the grey-beard
electricians who came out to add some outlets,
he explained that when the installer pulls three
separate conductors into a conduit, the electromagnetic
repulsion between adjacent conductors is free to
initiate some degree of 'thrashing about' within
the conduit.
He allowed as how it didn't make much difference
in a factory environment . . . but when his
company ran heavy duty wiring over, say, the
suspended ceilings of an office, their practice
was to pull in twisted trios so that the
conductors were not so free to move away
from each other.
Years ago I had a video taken of a large
loop of wire laying on a floor that was suddenly
energized with a very high current. The
loop of wire writhed on the floor like
a giant snake.
There's a youtube video that demonstrates
the potential for attraction/repulsion
forces between two conductors.
https://youtu.be/GW7PvSR9VUo
Of course, this is a purely mechanical
consequence of magnetic forces. The heating effect
you cited is another matter. The only thing I
can think of right now is that large AC
currents not flowing in equal-opposite,
close-proximity would induce eddy-currents
in the surrounding conduit which can only raise
the temperature of the conduit.
That would be an interesting physics lab
experiment. Thanks for posing the hypothesis!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Years ago I took a college course on the National Electrical Code. The instructor
was an electrical inspector. He told about inspecting the electrical installation
in a commercial building. The installer had done a very neat job with
all of the white neutral wires in one conduit and all of the hot wires in another
conduit coming from the electrical service panel. After the building was
occupied, the tenant called the inspector complaining about hot conduits.
The installer had to come back and rewire the panel with the hot and neutral wires
from each circuit sharing the same conduit.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456268#456268
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
At 06:24 PM 5/15/2016, you wrote:
>
>Years ago I took a college course on the National Electrical
>Code. The instructor was an electrical inspector. He told about
>inspecting the electrical installation in a commercial
>building. The installer had done a very neat job with all of the
>white neutral wires in one conduit and all of the hot wires in
>another conduit coming from the electrical service panel. After the
>building was occupied, the tenant called the inspector complaining
>about hot conduits. The installer had to come back and rewire the
>panel with the hot and neutral wires from each circuit sharing the
>same conduit.
Makes sense. If you imagine just a short piece
of conduit . . . say 1" long with a number of
wires through it. The conduit couples to the
wires just like a torroid transformer core
except the steel in the conduit was never
intended for transformer duties . . . high
eddy-current losses. While each conductor might not
carry a lot of current (keeping I(squared)R
losses low) the sum of many conductors could
be putting tens of ampere-turns of energy
into the 'core' which can do nothing with it
but get warmer. Keeping the outbound and return
electron paths paired through the very long
"core" is the secret to getting more power
to the other end and keeping the "core"
cooler.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gautier, Thomas N (3262)" <thomas.n.gautier(at)jpl.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | B and C SD-8 dynamo problem |
Bob,
I am getting to the final stages of my RV-10 project for which I
selected Z-13/8 as the electrical system model. My system design is
essential identical to Z-13/8 rev Q from Appendix Z Rev.12A change 4,
except that I am using ordinary mags for ignition.
Its time to install the SD-8 dynamo on the engine so I finally, some
years after wiring it, got around to testing the control circuit for the
dynamo. I mounted the dynamo in a drill press to operate at about 2400 rpm
and arranged to load the dynamo/control circuit up to a maximum of 8A
using some modified electric toaster heating elements. I started with no
load.
My test set produces no output voltage. When I turn on the drill press
the voltage at the positive terminal of the capacitor rises to 3.1v over a
period of 10 or 15 seconds and stays there. The dynamo is producing over
20vac and the voltage at the negative terminal of the bridge rectifier is
about -13v.
I am in the process of wringing out my circuit construction to find the
problem but I would like your advice on a couple of issues. 1) Can you
suggest a definitive test of the voltage regulator module isolated from
the rest of the circuit? And 2) Can I test the control circuit without the
dynamo, perhaps with a DC supply for input power? If I can test it with DC
what voltage should I use? I imagine 16 or 17 volts would be right for
full 8A load. Would higher voltage be useful for lighter loads? I would
like to stress test my heat sinking arrangement for an hour or two but I
dont really like the idea of running the dynamo with the drill press for
that long. Also Id like to get the dynamo mounted on the engine.
Thanks for any advice you can give me.
Nick Gautier
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
Does anybody know of a source for the black nuts that attach the Klixon
circuit breakers to the panel?
Bill Hunter
+1 408-464-1902
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Klixon CB Nuts |
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
Bill,
http://www.bandc.aero/circuit-protective-devices.aspx
<http://www.bandc.aero/circuit-protective-devices.aspx>
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
> On May 16, 2016, at 6:01 PM, William Hunter
wrote:
>
> Does anybody know of a source for the black nuts that attach the
Klixon circuit breakers to the panel?
>
> Bill Hunter
> +1 408-464-1902
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
When the dynamo is rotating, both it and the regulator should be outputting voltage,
regardless of whether the relay is energized or not.
What regulator are you using? It should be mounted using heat-conductive paste.
Is the regulator grounded to the airframe during these tests?
We need to know exactly where both voltmeter leads are connected for each measurement.
The dynamo does not have to be rotating to test the relay. An easy test is to
put a 12 volt battery in the aircraft wired according to Z-13/8. Connect a
high wattage automotive lamp across the capacitor, then turn the AUX/ALT switch
on and off. If the lamp turns on and off, then the relay circuit is working.
The relay should always be energized with 12 volts nominal (14 is OK), never
with 16 or 17 volts.
The problem might be the test setup and not a component problem. The best test
is to install everything and go fly the plane. Stick-on temperature strips
can be affixed to the regulator to see how hot it gets.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456318#456318
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Klixon CB Nuts |
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Bob... GREATLY APPRECIATED
Bill Hunter
+1 408-464-1902
On May 16, 2016 4:37 PM, "Robert Borger" wrote:
> Bill,
>
> http://www.bandc.aero/circuit-protective-devices.aspx
>
> Blue skies & tailwinds,
> Bob Borger
> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
> Cel: 817-992-1117
> rlborger(at)mac.com
>
> On May 16, 2016, at 6:01 PM, William Hunter
> wrote:
>
> Does anybody know of a source for the black nuts that attach the Klixon
> circuit breakers to the panel?
>
> Bill Hunter
> +1 408-464-1902
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem |
> I am in the process of wringing out my circuit construction to find the
>problem but I would like your advice on a couple of issues. 1) Can you
>suggest a definitive test of the voltage regulator module isolated from
>the rest of the circuit? And 2) Can I test the control circuit without the
>dynamo, perhaps with a DC supply for input power? If I can test it with DC
>what voltage should I use? I imagine 16 or 17 volts would be right for
>full 8A load. Would higher voltage be useful for lighter loads? I would
>like to stress test my heat sinking arrangement for an hour or two but I
>don=B9t really like the idea of running the dynamo with the drill press for
>that long. Also I=B9d like to get the dynamo mounted on the engine.
Not all rectifier/regulators will come alive without
having voltage at "both ends" . . . i.e. both
input and output. They need a battery on line
to wake up.
The stock SD-8 R/R is thermally marginal. It will
be replaced with a more robust device shortly.
I'm assembling a drive stand to do detailed
energy studies on a range of R/R options for
all of the B&C PM alternators. Kind of swamped
right now with EMT classes but the drive stand
is about ready to run.
Emacs!
Please don't take this as any discouragement
for gathering your own data. I'd be pleased
to know your findings. 2400 RPM is a bit slow,
the SD-8 doesn't reach full rated output
below 3900 or so. Getting a grip on those
critters to spin them is a bit of a hassle.
Neal George fixed me up with some OEM mating
parts for the spline. I did find that a 12-point,
socket (11/16?) fits the male spline pretty
well. I have an adapter fabricated from a
socket that I elected not to use for permanent
tooling. You're welcome to it if it's useful
to you.
In any case, I suggest you mock up a complete
alternator-battery-load system. It should
come alive and work for you then.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gautier, Thomas N (3262)" <thomas.n.gautier(at)jpl.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem |
Joe,
When my Dynamo is rotating it's putting out >20 vac. But the regulator pu
ts out ~3vdc, at least it charges the capacitor to 3v over 10-15 seconds. T
hat means to me that the regulator is not working in my test set.
I'm using the PMR-1 regulator sold with the SD-8 Dynamo by B and C. I int
ended to wire it as shown in Z-13/8 Rev Q. The voltages mentioned below wer
e measured with respect to chassis ground at the points on Z-13/8 as descri
bed.
I misspoke slightly indicating that I wanted to test the control circuit
at 16 or 17 volts. I meant, could I test the regulator, by itself or in th
e full circuit, by applying 16 or 17 volts DC to the regulator input in pla
ce of the Dynamo. I expect the relay and other parts of the circuit will wo
rk ok (TBD, of course) but right now the regulator is not producing output
power.
I will not be able to fly the circuit for several more months as the pla
ne is not done yet. Also, I would like to get the circuit operating on the
bench instead of trouble shooting under the panel.
Nick
Sent from my iPhone
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com<mailto:fransew(at)gmail.com>>
When the dynamo is rotating, both it and the regulator should be outputting
voltage,
regardless of whether the relay is energized or not.
What regulator are you using? It should be mounted using heat-conductive p
aste.
Is the regulator grounded to the airframe during these tests?
We need to know exactly where both voltmeter leads are connected for each m
easurement.
The dynamo does not have to be rotating to test the relay. An easy test is
to
put a 12 volt battery in the aircraft wired according to Z-13/8. Connect
a
high wattage automotive lamp across the capacitor, then turn the AUX/ALT sw
itch
on and off. If the lamp turns on and off, then the relay circuit is workin
g.
The relay should always be energized with 12 volts nominal (14 is OK), neve
r
with 16 or 17 volts.
The problem might be the test setup and not a component problem. The best
test
is to install everything and go fly the plane. Stick-on temperature strips
can be affixed to the regulator to see how hot it gets.
--------
Joe Gores
From: "Gautier, Thomas N (3262)" <thomas.n.gautier(at)jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thom
as.n.gautier(at)jpl.nasa.gov>>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem
Bob,
I am getting to the final stages of my RV-10 project for which I
selected Z-13/8 as the electrical system model. My system design is
essential identical to Z-13/8 rev Q from Appendix Z Rev.12A change 4,
except that I am using ordinary mags for ignition.
Its time to install the SD-8 dynamo on the engine so I finally, some
years after wiring it, got around to testing the control circuit for the
dynamo. I mounted the dynamo in a drill press to operate at about 2400 rpm
and arranged to load the dynamo/control circuit up to a maximum of 8A
using some modified electric toaster heating elements. I started with no
load.
My test set produces no output voltage. When I turn on the drill press
the voltage at the positive terminal of the capacitor rises to 3.1v over a
period of 10 or 15 seconds and stays there. The dynamo is producing over
20vac and the voltage at the negative terminal of the bridge rectifier is
about -13v.
I am in the process of wringing out my circuit construction to find the
problem but I would like your advice on a couple of issues. 1) Can you
suggest a definitive test of the voltage regulator module isolated from
the rest of the circuit? And 2) Can I test the control circuit without the
dynamo, perhaps with a DC supply for input power? If I can test it with DC
what voltage should I use? I imagine 16 or 17 volts would be right for
full 8A load. Would higher voltage be useful for lighter loads? I would
like to stress test my heat sinking arrangement for an hour or two but I
dont really like the idea of running the dynamo with the drill press for
that long. Also Id like to get the dynamo mounted on the engine.
Thanks for any advice you can give me.
Nick Gautier
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Richards <stephencliverichards(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem |
Nick
are you sure that you do not have to apply 12v from the battery to
the regulator initially with the generator running to start the regulator
working.
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gautier, Thomas N (3262)" <thomas.n.gautier(at)jpl.nasa.gov>
Sent: =8E17/=8E05/=8E2016 19:45
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem
Joe,
When my Dynamo is rotating it's putting out >20 vac. But the regulator pu
ts out ~3vdc, at least it charges the capacitor to 3v over 10-15 seconds. T
hat means to me that the regulator is not working in my test set.
I'm using the PMR-1 regulator sold with the SD-8 Dynamo by B and C. I int
ended to wire it as shown in Z-13/8 Rev Q. The voltages mentioned below wer
e measured with respect to chassis ground at the points on Z-13/8 as descri
bed.
I misspoke slightly indicating that I wanted to test the control circuit
at 16 or 17 volts. I meant, could I test the regulator, by itself or in th
e full circuit, by applying 16 or 17 volts DC to the regulator input in pla
ce of the Dynamo. I expect the relay and other parts of the circuit will wo
rk ok (TBD, of course) but right now the regulator is not producing output
power.
I will not be able to fly the circuit for several more months as the pla
ne is not done yet. Also, I would like to get the circuit operating on the
bench instead of trouble shooting under the panel.
Nick
Sent from my iPhone
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
When the dynamo is rotating, both it and the regulator should be outputting
voltage,
regardless of whether the relay is energized or not.
What regulator are you using? It should be mounted using heat-conductive p
aste.
Is the regulator grounded to the airframe during these tests?
We need to know exactly where both voltmeter leads are connected for each m
easurement.
The dynamo does not have to be rotating to test the relay. An easy test is
to
put a 12 volt battery in the aircraft wired according to Z-13/8. Connect
a
high wattage automotive lamp across the capacitor, then turn the AUX/ALT sw
itch
on and off. If the lamp turns on and off, then the relay circuit is workin
g.
The relay should always be energized with 12 volts nominal (14 is OK), neve
r
with 16 or 17 volts.
The problem might be the test setup and not a component problem. The best
test
is to install everything and go fly the plane. Stick-on temperature strips
can be affixed to the regulator to see how hot it gets.
--------
Joe Gores
From: "Gautier, Thomas N (3262)" <thomas.n.gautier(at)jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem
Bob,
I am getting to the final stages of my RV-10 project for which I
selected Z-13/8 as the electrical system model. My system design is
essential identical to Z-13/8 rev Q from Appendix Z Rev.12A change 4,
except that I am using ordinary mags for ignition.
Its time to install the SD-8 dynamo on the engine so I finally, some
years after wiring it, got around to testing the control circuit for the
dynamo. I mounted the dynamo in a drill press to operate at about 2400 rpm
and arranged to load the dynamo/control circuit up to a maximum of 8A
using some modified electric toaster heating elements. I started with no
load.
My test set produces no output voltage. When I turn on the drill press
the voltage at the positive terminal of the capacitor rises to 3.1v over a
period of 10 or 15 seconds and stays there. The dynamo is producing over
20vac and the voltage at the negative terminal of the bridge rectifier is
about -13v.
I am in the process of wringing out my circuit construction to find the
problem but I would like your advice on a couple of issues. 1) Can you
suggest a definitive test of the voltage regulator module isolated from
the rest of the circuit? And 2) Can I test the control circuit without the
dynamo, perhaps with a DC supply for input power? If I can test it with DC
what voltage should I use? I imagine 16 or 17 volts would be right for
full 8A load. Would higher voltage be useful for lighter loads? I would
like to stress test my heat sinking arrangement for an hour or two but I
dont really like the idea of running the dynamo with the drill press for
that long. Also Id like to get the dynamo mounted on the engine.
Thanks for any advice you can give me.
Nick Gautier
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
If your regulator does not work, you might consider buying a John Deere regulator.
Search eBay for AM101406 & MIA881279 & JDR1406
The John Deere regulator uses the case for ground. There is no negative terminal.
Instead of using the airframe as a reference point, connect the black meter lead
to the regulator negative terminal and then measure the voltage on positive
terminal.
I would not connect a DC voltage to the AC input on the regulator without knowing
what affect that would have.
Question for others: Can a 16 volt doorbell transformer be connected to the regulator
AC input or is the frequency too low?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456342#456342
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I have a 70 amp alternator and have a D180 with the dynon shunt. I also have a
ANL-60 protecting the layout....should I replace that with a ANL-80?
Thanks
Don
The above was posted on VansAirforce by Don. I replied that 60 amp ANL should
work fine. But decided to post it on the AeroElectric list to get more qualified
opinions.
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/87/Bus_Ele_DS_2024_ANL-348888.pdf
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456350#456350
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gautier, Thomas N (3262)" <thomas.n.gautier(at)jpl.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem |
Bob and everyone,
Thanks for the replies.
I was aware that the dynamo regulator might not come alive without
power on its output, but I thought that was what the
bridge-rectifier/3K-resistor come-alive circuit in Z-13/8 Rev Q was for. I
can=B9t say that I understand just how that circuit works with the regulato
r
module but it reminds me of an old vacuum tube grid leak bias circuit.
That=B9s why I thought the voltage (about -13vdc) at the junction of the
resistor and rectifier would be useful.
I will test a more complete version of my electrical system with the
main battery attached and see if things work better. The best I can do is
3100 rpm for the dynamo but we=B9ll see how that works. I=B9ll report my
results. I have attached a composite picture of the test set up for those
of you who are interested. The guys at BandC said driving the dynamo from
the outside end wouldn=B9t hurt it. The big sheet of aluminum is my stand-i
n
heat sink for the instrument sub-panel in the plane.
Bob, do you have any idea how soon an improved version of the regulator
might be available?
Regards,
Nick Gautier
>
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B and C SD-8 dynamo problem
>
>
>> I am in the process of wringing out my circuit construction to find
>>the
>>problem but I would like your advice on a couple of issues. 1) Can you
>>suggest a definitive test of the voltage regulator module isolated from
>>the rest of the circuit? And 2) Can I test the control circuit without
>>the
>>dynamo, perhaps with a DC supply for input power? If I can test it with
>>DC
>>what voltage should I use? I imagine 16 or 17 volts would be right for
>>full 8A load. Would higher voltage be useful for lighter loads? I would
>>like to stress test my heat sinking arrangement for an hour or two but I
>>don=B9t really like the idea of running the dynamo with the drill press
>>for
>>that long. Also I=B9d like to get the dynamo mounted on the engine.
>
> Not all rectifier/regulators will come alive without
> having voltage at "both ends" . . . i.e. both
> input and output. They need a battery on line
> to wake up.
>
> The stock SD-8 R/R is thermally marginal. It will
> be replaced with a more robust device shortly.
> I'm assembling a drive stand to do detailed
> energy studies on a range of R/R options for
> all of the B&C PM alternators. Kind of swamped
> right now with EMT classes but the drive stand
> is about ready to run.
>
>
>Emacs!
>
>
> Please don't take this as any discouragement
> for gathering your own data. I'd be pleased
> to know your findings. 2400 RPM is a bit slow,
> the SD-8 doesn't reach full rated output
> below 3900 or so. Getting a grip on those
> critters to spin them is a bit of a hassle.
> Neal George fixed me up with some OEM mating
> parts for the spline. I did find that a 12-point,
> socket (11/16?) fits the male spline pretty
> well. I have an adapter fabricated from a
> socket that I elected not to use for permanent
> tooling. You're welcome to it if it's useful
> to you.
>
> In any case, I suggest you mock up a complete
> alternator-battery-load system. It should
> come alive and work for you then.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ANL Fuse Rating |
At 04:09 AM 5/18/2016, you wrote:
>
>I have a 70 amp alternator and have a D180 with the dynon shunt. I
>also have a ANL-60 protecting the layout....should I replace that
>with a ANL-80?
>Thanks
No, 60A will be fine. As you can see below,
even an ANL50 would not be severely stressed by
a 70A alternator . . .
Emacs!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ANL Fuse Rating |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Bob
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456362#456362
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
Whoa! I posted a question, went away for a few days of R&R, and I come back
to a torrent of conversation! :-)
I guess I'll be reading for awhile.
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Extension Cord |
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
After reading all of the replies, I have learned that extension cords,
under load, can *safely* get warm to the touch. Interesting. That does
reassure me that my cord is not dangerous, since it is only warm (not hot).
It's only 25 feet long so it is never coiled up. The places where I use it
are 10-15 feet away from where I need power.
I had forgotten about the need for circulating air to cool the wires. The
EVSE (charger) does have a built-in facility for coiling/storing the excess
cable. Now that it is getting to be summer, I will make a habit of always
uncoiling the whole cable. It wasn't an issue it the winter but... St.
Louis summer heat + sunshine + electrical current is beyond my comfort zone.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Charlotte, NC Seminar |
DR. Dee and I are going to gyp half of
EMT class tonite and peddle up to Wichita
with a small expectation of getting a few
hours sleep before launching out of ICT
in the morning.
I'll probably be off-list for the duration.
We get back Sunday but I've got meetings
in Wichita Monday and class again Monday
nite . . . so I'll probably have my head
down until Tuesday.
Looking forward to communing with the brothers
in NC.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Transponder ADSB Transponder Antenna |
Is it ok to install the ADS-B and transponder antenna in the same
location?
I have a composite aircraft and there is a ground plane installed on the
floorboard of the real plane and it already has the transponder antenna
located thereI would like to install the ADS-B antenna there.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Transponder ADSB Transponder Antenna |
Found the answerthe Dynon SkyView manual did not have any
reference in the transponder section however in the ADS-B section it has
the following:
The SV-ADSB-470 antenna should not be installed within 2 feet (24
inches) of the SVXPNDR-261/262 antenna.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
William Hunter
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:09 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder ADSB Transponder Antenna
Is it ok to install the ADS-B and transponder antenna in the same
location?
I have a composite aircraft and there is a ground plane installed on the
floorboard of the real plane and it already has the transponder antenna
located thereI would like to install the ADS-B antenna there.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Ground Plane Question |
I have a question about the =9CGround Plane=9D design and
the antenna mounting within that ground plane in a composite aircraft:
The SkyView manuals states =9CWhen a conventional aircraft
monopole antenna is used it relies on a ground plane for correct
behavior. For ideal performance the ground plane should be very large
compared to the wavelength of reception, which is 305 mm. In a metal
skinned aircraft this is usually easy to accomplish, but is more
difficult in a composite or fabric skinned aircraft. In these cases a
metallic ground plane should be fabricated and fitted under the antenna.
As the ground plane is made smaller, the actual dimensions of the ground
plane become more
critical, and small multiples of the wavelength should be avoided, as
should circles. Rectangles
or squares are much less likely to create a critical dimension that
resonates with the
transmissions. The smallest practical ground plane is a square around
130 mm per side; as the
size increases the performance may actually get worse, but will be
better by the time the
ground plane is 780 mm on each side. Anything much larger than that size
is unlikely to show
significant further improvement.
So I get that the metal foil/piece needs to be a square that is larger
than 130 MM X 130 MM however where should the antenna be mounted in that
square? At the edge, outside corner, or in the exact center? I would
think that the center would not be better than the edge or corner
because the wavelength
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder ADSB Transponder Antenna |
| From: | Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
Those antennas work on the same frequency. Having them right next to
eachother will at best overwhelm your ADS-B receiver, and worst case
damage it. Most ADS-B receivers have guidelines for minimum distance
between those antennas. I would take those guidelines at heart.
Rob
On 5/22/2016 9:08 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> Is it ok to install the ADS-B and transponder antenna in the same
> location?
>
> I have a composite aircraft and there is a ground plane installed on
> the floorboard of the real plane and it already has the transponder
> antenna located thereI would like to install the ADS-B antenna there.
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder ADSB Transponder Antenna |
They need to be 5' apart in most cases.
Tim
> On May 22, 2016, at 2:08 PM, William Hunter w
rote:
>
> Is it ok to install the ADS-B and transponder antenna in the same location
?
>
> I have a composite aircraft and there is a ground plane installed on the f
loorboard of the real plane and it already has the transponder antenna locat
ed thereI would like to install the ADS-B antenna there.
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder ADSB Transponder Antenna |
| From: | Peter Pengilly <peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
Which frequency band will you be using?
On 22/05/2016 20:08, William Hunter wrote:
>
> Is it ok to install the ADS-B and transponder antenna in the same
> location?
>
> I have a composite aircraft and there is a ground plane installed on
> the floorboard of the real plane and it already has the transponder
> antenna located thereI would like to install the ADS-B antenna there.
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Transponder and ADS Antenna Mounting Location Questions |
For A Velocity
Thanks the feedback on the other threads I startedI will
combine both questions here.
Does anybody have any advice on what I should do with respect to
mounting my transponder and ADS-B antennae?
I have a flying Velocity that I am doing a complete rewire because I am
installing a Dynon Skyview system. Since the airplane is already
completed I cannot get too creative with installing antennas in the
wings or wing tips and some of the installations so in some instances I
am stuck with what I got.
The airplane has existing antennae mounted in the wings for VHF NAV and
COM and it also has a single transponder monopole antenna mounted on the
copilot side aft floorboard (under the rear seat). This antenna is
mounted in a way that the antenna is mounted to the bottom of the
airplane (sticking strait down) and the connector end of the antenna
sticks up through the fuselage floor and it is mounted to the corner of
an egg shaped ground plane (why they used egg shape instead of
square/rectangle I do not knowperhaps a scrap piece of metal
was laying around). Attached is a PDF showing a picture.
I have installed a radio rack in the copilot side of the nose
compartment directly on top of the canard. I need to try to avoid
locating the antenna up front because on the pilot side of the nose
compartment is the ADHRS units and they have the magnetometer.
Any advice would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
408-464-1902
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Olson
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder ADSB Transponder Antenna
They need to be 5' apart in most cases.
Tim
On May 22, 2016, at 2:08 PM, William Hunter > wrote:
Is it ok to install the ADS-B and transponder antenna in the same
location?
I have a composite aircraft and there is a ground plane installed on the
floorboard of the real plane and it already has the transponder antenna
located thereI would like to install the ADS-B antenna there.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground Plane Question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Mount the antenna in the center of the square. The numbers that I read on the
Dynon website are 120 mm and 700 mm, 120 being ideal. I could be wrong but do
not think that the size is going to make a whole lot of difference, practically
speaking. Sensitive test equipment might see a difference using different
sizes of ground planes, but will it make a difference to a radar receiver?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456475#456475
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground Plane Question |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 5/22/2016 2:52 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> I have a question about the Ground Plane design and the antenna
> mounting within that ground plane in a composite aircraft:
>
> The SkyView manuals states When a conventional aircraft monopole
> antenna is used it relies on a ground plane for correct behavior. For
> ideal performance the ground plane should be very large compared to
> the wavelength of reception, which is 305 mm. In a metal skinned
> aircraft this is usually easy to accomplish, but is more difficult in
> a composite or fabric skinned aircraft. In these cases a metallic
> ground plane should be fabricated and fitted under the antenna.
>
> As the ground plane is made smaller, the actual dimensions of the
> ground plane become more
>
> critical, and small multiples of the wavelength should be avoided, as
> should circles. Rectangles
>
> or squares are much less likely to create a critical dimension that
> resonates with the
>
> transmissions. The smallest practical ground plane is a square around
> 130 mm per side; as the
>
> size increases the performance may actually get worse, but will be
> better by the time the
>
> ground plane is 780 mm on each side. Anything much larger than that
> size is unlikely to show
>
> significant further improvement.
>
> So I get that the metal foil/piece needs to be a square that is larger
> than 130 MM X 130 MM however where should the antenna be mounted in
> that square? At the edge, outside corner, or in the exact center? I
> would think that the center would not be better than the edge or
> corner because the wavelength
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
April 19, 2016 - May 22, 2016
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