AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-nx
May 21, 2017 - June 29, 2017
senses, just with reversing the electrons movement on those
2 wires. You also probably know that the motor doesnt
stop at both ends if you dont release the switch, so
the motor keeps turning even when the flaps reach full
extension and full retraction. Now the question: which can
be the reason for the current peak that the motor is
reaching at full retraction? Any help welcomeThanksCarlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flaps system tripping the circuit breaker |
On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 4:47 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote
:
> One of my aviator friends called me to help him solving a problem in his
> RV-7 flaps system.
>
> He told me that occasionally, when he retracts the flaps, the
> correspondent Circuit Breaker trips. But not always, so he resets the CB
> and the flaps keep working normally.
>
>
> I asked him to measure the current during the flaps movement, and he
> measured 1 to 2 A when extending and when retracting, but he noticed that
> after full retraction the current went to 7 A.
>
> That explains why the CB (5A) trips.
>
>
> I think most of you know that the flaps system in an RV airplane is
> powered by an electric motor with 2 wires, which make the flaps work in
> both senses, just with reversing the electrons movement on those 2 wires.
> You also probably know that the motor doesn=99t stop at both ends i
f you
> don=99t release the switch, so the motor keeps turning even when th
e flaps
> reach full extension and full retraction.
>
>
> Now the question: which can be the reason for the current peak that the
> motor is reaching at full retraction?
>
>
> Any help welcome
>
> Thanks
>
> Carlos
>
>
My 1st guess is that the flap linkage is slightly out of adjustment. If the
flaps hit their stops before the motor reaches full retraction, it would
still trying to pull instead of free-wheeling.
My 2nd guess (after looking at the 10A flaps breaker in my RV-4, and
looking at the specs for the motor that's inside the actuator) is that he's
using the wrong breaker.
Corollary to my 2nd guess is that he's holding the up button too long. :-)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flaps system tripping the circuit breaker |
| From: | Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
Is there a functional limit switch in this system? If you hit the
physical end of travel for the flap system and there's no limit switch,
the motor will keep on pulling at maximum power. Current draw will be a
lot higher and if it wasn't for the CB, you'd probably burn up the motor.
On 5/21/2017 11:47 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> One of my aviator friends called me to help him solving a problem in
> his RV-7 flaps system.
>
> He told me that occasionally, when he retracts the flaps, the
> correspondent Circuit Breaker trips. But not always, so he resets the
> CB and the flaps keep working normally.
>
> I asked him to measure the current during the flaps movement, and he
> measured 1 to 2 A when extending and when retracting, but he noticed
> that after full retraction the current went to 7 A.
>
> That explains why the CB (5A) trips.
>
> I think most of you know that the flaps system in an RV airplane is
> powered by an electric motor with 2 wires, which make the flaps work
> in both senses, just with reversing the electrons movement on those 2
> wires. You also probably know that the motor doesnt stop at both ends
> if you dont release the switch, so the motor keeps turning even when
> the flaps reach full extension and full retraction.
>
> Now the question: which can be the reason for the current peak that
> the motor is reaching at full retraction?
>
> Any help welcome
>
> Thanks
>
> Carlos
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
| From: | "merlewagner2" <wagnermerle(at)gmail.com> |
Bob,
When you get the new circuit up I would be very interested in purchasing. Have
the Ivo mag prop which will be interfacing with a Viking Turbo 170HP. Should be
interesting to see the performance.
Merle
--------
KC1DNJ
General Radiotelephone
Commercial SEL
A&P
Building scale P51
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469481#469481
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flaps system tripping the circuit breaker |
At 06:14 AM 5/21/2017, you wrote:
>
>Due to the mostly vertical orientation of the motor, the grease in
>the bearings will sometime migrate down onto the commutator/brush
>area of the armature. This is a common issue. It requires removal
>and disassembly of the motor to clean the grease off the armature
>and re-grease the bearings.
Contamination of the commutator can indeed
manifest in mis-behavior of the motor but
not over-current. Are these ball bearings?
If so, they are most likely a metric standard.
You might fix the problem with factory lubricated,
sealed bearings.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flaps system tripping the circuit breaker |
>
>
>My 1st guess is that the flap linkage is
>slightly out of adjustment. If the flaps hit
>their stops before the motor reaches full
>retraction, it would still trying to pull instead of free-wheeling.
>
>My 2nd guess (after looking at the 10A flaps
>breaker in my RV-4, and looking at the specs for
>the motor that's inside the actuator) is that he's using the wrong breaker.
>
>Corollary to my 2nd guess is that he's holding the up button too long. :-)
=C2
>
>Charlie
Agreed. The spec sheet shows a motor resistance of
0.83 ohms. Add another few tenths of an ohm for wiring
and we still have an inrush current potential on the
order of 10 amps. So yes, the 5A breaker MIGHT be
marginal . . . but I would expect it to operate on
both extend or retract cycles . . . especially
extend when the motor is pushing flaps into
the slip-stream.
So your first guess sounds like the right one . . .
the flaps are hitting mechanical stops and
stalling the motor . . .
Well adjusted limit switches would be a
sanitary solution.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flaps system tripping the circuit breaker |
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
Just an aside but this issue helps justify the decision to make the only
CBs in my RV for the AP, the voltage regulator and flaps (none have
tripped to date however). Everything else is protected by fuses that I
don't intend to 'reset' in the air
Bill "keeping the pilot as proficient as the plane is the perpetual
challenge" Watson
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flaps system tripping the circuit breaker |
First, the flap system in the RV's has a clutch for travel to both ends of
travel, so the flap motor never
actually goes into a stall condition. The motor current only goes up less
than 2 amps over normal
ground bases travel currents.
Second, aerodynamic pressures on the flaps raise the flap motor current
significantly. To the point
That a 7 amp fuse or circuit breaker will definitely trip. And from my
experiences in multiple RV's I
Know that while flying, a trip can happen while extending or retracting the
flaps.
I strongly suggest that you need to increase the amp rating of your circuit
protection to at least
10 amps. If you do that, your problems will go away.. All the planes listed
below have had 10 Amp
Circuit protections, and did not trip during flight..
Fred Stucklen
N924RV 1395 Hrs Flying
N926RV 875 Hrs Sold
N925RV 2008 Hrs Sold
One of my aviator friends called me to help him solving a problem in
his
RV-7 flaps system.
He told me that occasionally, when he retracts the flaps, the
correspondent
Circuit Breaker trips. But not always, so he resets the CB and the
flaps
keep working normally.
I asked him to measure the current during the flaps movement, and he
measured 1 to 2 A when extending and when retracting, but he noticed
that
after full retraction the current went to 7 A.
That explains why the CB (5A) trips.
I think most of you know that the flaps system in an RV airplane is
powered
by an electric motor with 2 wires, which make the flaps work in both
senses,
just with reversing the electrons movement on those 2 wires. You also
probably know that the motor doesn't stop at both ends if you don't
release
the switch, so the motor keeps turning even when the flaps reach full
extension and full retraction.
Now the question: which can be the reason for the current peak that
the
motor is reaching at full retraction?
Any help welcome
Thanks
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flaps system tripping the circuit breaker |
At 07:28 AM 5/22/2017, you wrote:
>First, the flap system in the RV=92s has a clutch
>for travel to both ends of travel, so the flap motor never
>actually goes into a stall condition. The motor
>current only goes up less than 2 amps over normal
>ground bases travel currents.
I was wondering about that . . . I seemed to
recall that the actuator was fitted with ball
screws and end-of-travel clutches. But
these are effective only if the ball nut reaches
end of stroke on the screw before the flap
mechanism bottoms out.
>
>Second, aerodynamic pressures on the flaps raise
>the flap motor current significantly. To the point
>That a 7 amp fuse or circuit breaker will
>definitely trip. And from my experiences in multiple RV=92s I
>Know that while flying, a trip can happen while
>extending or retracting the flaps.
>
>I strongly suggest that you need to increase the
>amp rating of your circuit protection to at least
>10 amps. If you do that, your problems will go
>away=85. All the planes listed below have had 10 Amp
>Circuit protections, and did not trip during flight=85.
>
>Fred Stucklen
>N924RV 1395 Hrs Flying
>N926RV 875 Hrs Sold
>N925RV 2008 Hrs Sold
Thank you sir . . . good data!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Comparison of LED annunciator fixtures |
A few days there was some discussion about some
off-the-shelf, led annunciator fixtures offered
on eBay:
I ordered in some of these and found that they
were reasonably bright, mechanically rugged
with the only down-side being the lack of
vibration support on the smash-em terminals
at the back.
http://tinyurl.com/lpgjdu3
Emacs!
Somebody mentioned these:
http://tinyurl.com/mw629ow
Emacs!
I ordered some samples which arrived yesterday.
They're certainly good looking and mechanically rugged.
They're biased up with a resistor spliced into the
pigtails under heat shrink. As received, they're
set up to consume less than 10mA at 12-14v.
I'm pretty sure these lamps will easily handle 30
mA of excitation which gets you a bit more intensity.
These may well be suited to your annunciation task.
Consider replacing the existing series resistor
with a 330 Ohm, 1/2 watt resistor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
| From: | "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com> |
I removed the LEDs from the circuit, and added new LEDs directly to the board.
The behavior is the same as before -- with the engine off, the prop and circuit
behaved normally. With the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost
immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off.
--------
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469605#469605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
At 05:36 PM 5/25/2017, you wrote:
>
>I removed the LEDs from the circuit, and added new LEDs directly to the board.
>
>The behavior is the same as before -- with the engine off, the prop
>and circuit behaved normally. With the engine running, the prop
>current is shut down almost immediately, though a small bit of pitch
>change does occur prior to cut-off.
>
>--------
>Doug
Need to pray over your observations . . .
it would sure be nice to get some
measurements . . . but I think I'll
have an experiment that will help
burrow down to root cause.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
>>
>> with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally. With the
engine running, the prop current is shut down almost immediately, though
a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off.
>>
>> --------
>> Doug
Could this have something to do with the higher system voltage when the
engine is running?
=94Daniel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil Rosoff" <neil(at)rosoff.com> |
| Subject: | Firewall Forward Connections |
I am installing several sensors onto my engine (EGT, CHT, Fuel Pressure, Oil
pressure and temperature, Manifold pressure, etc.)
The CHT sensors came with a ring terminal that had a nut bonded to it. It
was actually easy to crimp a ring terminal onto the other wire and screw the
two together. The EGT sensor had regular ring terminals but provided
screws, nuts and lock washers. All the other sensors have bear wires.
As all of these sensors are in areas with high vibration (either directly on
the engine, or on the fire wall) I was considering either using the above
method of screwing the rings together, butt splicing, or AMP Mate and Locks.
Screwing the rings together or using Mate and Locks would be easier, but I
think the butt splice would provide a reliable connection.
Is there another method that would provide both maintainability and reliable
connections in high vibration areas?
Neil Rosoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Forward Connections |
At 10:24 PM 5/28/2017, you wrote:
>I am installing several sensors onto my engine (EGT, CHT, Fuel
>Pressure, Oil pressure and temperature, Manifold pressure, etc.)
>
>The CHT sensors came with a ring terminal that had a nut bonded to
>it. It was actually easy to crimp a ring terminal onto the other
>wire and screw the two together. The EGT sensor had regular ring
>terminals but provided screws, nuts and lock washers. All the other
>sensors have bear wires.
>
>As all of these sensors are in areas with high vibration (either
>directly on the engine, or on the fire wall) I was considering
>either using the above method of screwing the rings together, butt
>splicing, or AMP Mate and Locks. Screwing the rings together or
>using Mate and Locks would be easier, but I think the butt splice
>would provide a reliable connection.
Consider knife splices under heat-shrink.
http://tinyurl.com/y8owslug
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
At 11:06 PM 5/27/2017, you wrote:
>>>with the engine off, the prop and circuit behaved normally. With
>>>the engine running, the prop current is shut down almost
>>>immediately, though a small bit of pitch change does occur prior to cut-off.
>>>
>>>--------
>>>Doug
>
>Could this have something to do with the higher system voltage when
>the engine is running?
possibly . . . but I think not. The
current limiter is configured to 'latch'
into an OFF state approx 200 mS after
a current limit on the order of 9A is
achieved.
The 'latch' is subject to premature triggering
if subjected to noise which I suspect is coming
from the ship's alternator.
Emacs!
Doug,
Try tacking this combination of components onto
your assembly. The experiment is to see if adding
a smoothing capacitor to the circuit's power
source will sufficiently attenuate the antagonistic
energies. The 100 uF cap is the 'smoother' while
the 10 ohm resistor mitigates inrush currents impressed
on the circuit when the directional control switch
closes . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Sokolowski <air.peter(at)googlemail.com> |
| Subject: | Automatic header tank filling |
Hi,
I am flying a Lancair 360 with wing tanks and the standard header tank.
Rather thinking every 20 to 30 minutes to fill up the header tank again I
would like to have an automatism filling the tank.
I have a capacitive fuel gauge (output 0 to 5 V) and an independent
emergency reminder looking up at the annunciator panel @ about 5 gallons.
Rather re-inventing the wheel - is there a circuit diagram out there I can
use for such a fuel filling mimic ?
Thanks in advance,
Peter
LNC 360 MKII
D-EPSO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automatic header tank filling |
Hi,
I am flying a Lancair 360 with wing tanks and the
standard header tank. Rather thinking every 20 to
30 minutes to fill up the header tank again I
would like to have an automatism filling the tank.
I've done a couple of similar systems. Last
one was for the Piaggio P-180.
I have a capacitive fuel gauge (output 0 to 5 V)
and an independent emergency reminder looking up
at the annunciator panel @ about 5 gallons.
The analog output makes the 'control' easy to do.
The dragon to slay is failure mitigation.
Any time you add a automatic feature to the
airplane, it's wise to assume that it will
fail at some point.
What are the ways it can fail? How will you
become aware of the failure? Is the failure
pre-flight detectable? What are plans A, B, etc.
for dealing with the failure(s)?
You have a low level warning light . . . this should
be totally independent of any other function.
Suppose the transfer sticks ON and overfills the
tank. What happens if the tank is over filled;
what happens to excess fuel? Is there a practical
way to add a high level warning?
Rather re-inventing the wheel ' is there a
circuit diagram out there I can use for such a fuel filling mimic ?
You can watch the dc voltage from the
fuel gage with a comparator that will,
for example, turn the transfer ON at
3 volts or below and OFF at 4 volts or
above . . . or what ever hysteresis values
seem most practical.
The existing low level warning backs up
a failure to transfer, some kind of high
level warning should back of a failure to
stop transferring.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
| From: | "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com> |
Will do Bob. Thanks!
--------
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469718#469718
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
Hi All,
I have a couple of instances where I need to mate a male Dsub to a female
Dsub end to end within the length of a wire bundle (example: connect the
under panel wire harness to the wire harness of the control stick).
I already have the male and female Dsub connectors wired up and they are
connected end to end and I have the plastic shells (see below) however the
metal screws of the one shell needs to screw into a threaded bore of the
other connector so that the two connectors do not disconnect. Kinda like
when you attach the Dsub connector to the back of a computer the plug slides
into the receptacle and then the screws on the connector shell thread into
the threaded bore of the computer case.
How does one (me) do this on an end to end connector?
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
multiple ways to to this
1 buy one connector with built in nuts (Stein has these)
2 remove screws and use zip ties to hold the connectors together.
On May 30, 2017 19:56, "William Hunter" wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>
> I have a couple of instances where I need to mate a male Dsub to a female
> Dsub end to end within the length of a wire bundle (example: connect the
> under panel wire harness to the wire harness of the control stick).
>
>
> I already have the male and female Dsub connectors wired up and they are
> connected end to end and I have the plastic shells (see below) however the
> metal screws of the one shell needs to screw into a threaded bore of the
> other connector so that the two connectors do not disconnect. Kinda like
> when you attach the Dsub connector to the back of a computer the plug
> slides into the receptacle and then the screws on the connector shell
> thread into the threaded bore of the computer case.
>
>
> How does one (me) do this on an end to end connector?
>
>
> [image:
> http://www.steinair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SA-1030-BACKSHELL-DSUB15-L-DSC09853.jpg]
>
>
> ..
>
>
> Cheers!!!
>
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
I think you want something like this female screw kit:
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=5KjJMQyy%252baNdw8WXW
xtgeQ%3d%3d
<http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=5KjJMQyy%2baNdw8WXWx
tgeQ==>
It attaches to the contact portion before you install the back shell.
Each one should contain a kit for one connector pair, and you can just
use the provided male threaded hardware with the other one.
Be careful to either tighten the female nuts adequately or use some
Loctite to keep the nuts from falling out if you ever need to separate
the two connectors.
Here is a similar part from SteinAir
http://www.steinair.com/product/dsub-nut-pack-4-40-thread-size/
<http://www.steinair.com/product/dsub-nut-pack-4-40-thread-size/>
or you can also buy one with built in female lugs like this:
http://www.steinair.com/product/9-pin-male-dsub-connector-with-4-40-lugs/
<http://www.steinair.com/product/9-pin-male-dsub-connector-with-4-40-lugs/
>
These last ones are nice because you never have to worry about the lugs
backing out when you take the connectors apart!
> On May 30, 2017, at 9:49 PM, William Hunter
wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have a couple of instances where I need to mate a male Dsub to a
female Dsub end to end within the length of a wire bundle (example:
connect the under panel wire harness to the wire harness of the control
stick).
>
> I already have the male and female Dsub connectors wired up and they
are connected end to end and I have the plastic shells (see below)
however the metal screws of the one shell needs to screw into a threaded
bore of the other connector so that the two connectors do not
disconnect. Kinda like when you attach the Dsub connector to the back
of a computer the plug slides into the receptacle and then the screws on
the connector shell thread into the threaded bore of the computer case.
>
> How does one (me) do this on an end to end connector?
>
>
>
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
Bill,
I hate those screws. I have seen barrel connectors which are female on both
ends, stuck between two D-sub shells. They require having a screwdriver on
both ends, Pain-in-the-a**.
I am planning to use a pair a zip ties in a X in the places where I have
D-sub connectors in my plane. I would rather cut and replace the zip ties
than mess around with the screws.
I will be really interested to see if anyone has better ideas.
-- Art Z.
On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 9:49 PM, William Hunter
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>
> I have a couple of instances where I need to mate a male Dsub to a female
> Dsub end to end within the length of a wire bundle (example: connect the
> under panel wire harness to the wire harness of the control stick).
>
>
> I already have the male and female Dsub connectors wired up and they are
> connected end to end and I have the plastic shells (see below) however the
> metal screws of the one shell needs to screw into a threaded bore of the
> other connector so that the two connectors do not disconnect. Kinda like
> when you attach the Dsub connector to the back of a computer the plug
> slides into the receptacle and then the screws on the connector shell
> thread into the threaded bore of the computer case.
>
>
> How does one (me) do this on an end to end connector?
>
>
> [image:
> http://www.steinair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SA-1030-BACKSHELL-DSUB15-L-DSC09853.jpg]
>
>
> ..
>
>
> Cheers!!!
>
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Sokolowski <air.peter(at)googlemail.com> |
| Subject: | Automatic header tank filling |
Thanks Bob for the answer.
I agree with you that adding complexity/automatism adds possible failures to
the ac. And yes, I am aware that it may fail and thinking about backups like
my - already independent - low level warning light.
In addition I already installed an aviation approved switch with which I can
select manually between automatic and manual filling.
Also there is a drain (standard for Lancair header tanks) in case you
overfill - it just goes overboard.
Would you mind sharing the schematic you already invented ?
Thanks in advance,
Peter
LNC360 MK II
D-EPSO
Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Mai 2017 20:04
An: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: Re: AeroElectric-List: Automatic header tank filling
Hi,
I am flying a Lancair 360 with wing tanks and the standard header tank.
Rather thinking every 20 to 30 minutes to fill up the header tank again I
would like to have an automatism filling the tank.
I've done a couple of similar systems. Last
one was for the Piaggio P-180.
I have a capacitive fuel gauge (output 0 to 5 V) and an independent
emergency reminder looking up at the annunciator panel @ about 5 gallons.
The analog output makes the 'control' easy to do.
The dragon to slay is failure mitigation.
Any time you add a automatic feature to the
airplane, it's wise to assume that it will
fail at some point.
What are the ways it can fail? How will you
become aware of the failure? Is the failure
pre-flight detectable? What are plans A, B, etc.
for dealing with the failure(s)?
You have a low level warning light . . . this should
be totally independent of any other function.
Suppose the transfer sticks ON and overfills the
tank. What happens if the tank is over filled;
what happens to excess fuel? Is there a practical
way to add a high level warning?
Rather re-inventing the wheel - is there a circuit diagram out there I can
use for such a fuel filling mimic ?
You can watch the dc voltage from the
fuel gage with a comparator that will,
for example, turn the transfer ON at
3 volts or below and OFF at 4 volts or
above . . . or what ever hysteresis values
seem most practical.
The existing low level warning backs up
a failure to transfer, some kind of high
level warning should back of a failure to
stop transferring.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
Google 'dsub latch'. There are several different options for joining dsubs
in-line; screws, sliding latches, and spring bales. My favorite style:
http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-spring-latch/dp/39F1
390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||match||slid||product
|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-164504983461&CAAGID 389674261&
CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAjw07nJBRDG_
tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC_Jfw_wcB&CAW
ELAID=120185550001138611
More positive security than screws, because it can't loosen with vibration.
The same latch can be used on chassis mounted connectors, too, as long as
the designer left enough room around the connector to add the springs.
(Can you hear me, Advanced Flight Systems?)
Charlie
On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:43 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I hate those screws. I have seen barrel connectors which are female on
> both ends, stuck between two D-sub shells. They require having a
> screwdriver on both ends, Pain-in-the-a**.
>
> I am planning to use a pair a zip ties in a X in the places where I have
> D-sub connectors in my plane. I would rather cut and replace the zip ties
> than mess around with the screws.
>
> I will be really interested to see if anyone has better ideas.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 9:49 PM, William Hunter <
> billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a couple of instances where I need to mate a male Dsub to a femal
e
>> Dsub end to end within the length of a wire bundle (example: connect the
>> under panel wire harness to the wire harness of the control stick).
>>
>>
>>
>> I already have the male and female Dsub connectors wired up and they are
>> connected end to end and I have the plastic shells (see below) however t
he
>> metal screws of the one shell needs to screw into a threaded bore of the
>> other connector so that the two connectors do not disconnect. Kinda lik
e
>> when you attach the Dsub connector to the back of a computer the plug
>> slides into the receptacle and then the screws on the connector shell
>> thread into the threaded bore of the computer case.
>>
>>
>>
>> How does one (me) do this on an end to end connector?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image:
>> http://www.steinair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SA-1030-BACKSHELL-DSU
B15-L-DSC09853.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>> ..
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Hunter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automatic header tank filling |
On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am flying a Lancair 360 with wing tanks and the standard header tank.
> Rather thinking every 20 to 30 minutes to fill up the header tank again I
> would like to have an automatism filling the tank.
>
> I've done a couple of similar systems. Last
> one was for the Piaggio P-180.
>
> I have a capacitive fuel gauge (output 0 to 5 V) and an independent
> emergency reminder looking up at the annunciator panel @ about 5 gallons.
>
> The analog output makes the 'control' easy to do.
> The dragon to slay is failure mitigation.
> Any time you add a automatic feature to the
> airplane, it's wise to assume that it will
> fail at some point.
>
> What are the ways it can fail? How will you
> become aware of the failure? Is the failure
> pre-flight detectable? What are plans A, B, etc.
> for dealing with the failure(s)?
>
> You have a low level warning light . . . this should
> be totally independent of any other function.
> Suppose the transfer sticks ON and overfills the
> tank. What happens if the tank is over filled;
> what happens to excess fuel? Is there a practical
> way to add a high level warning?
>
> Rather re-inventing the wheel =93 is there a circuit diagram out th
ere I can
> use for such a fuel filling mimic ?
>
> You can watch the dc voltage from the
> fuel gage with a comparator that will,
> for example, turn the transfer ON at
> 3 volts or below and OFF at 4 volts or
> above . . . or what ever hysteresis values
> seem most practical.
>
> The existing low level warning backs up
> a failure to transfer, some kind of high
> level warning should back of a failure to
> stop transferring.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
"Suppose the transfer sticks ON and overfills the
tank. What happens if the tank is over filled;
what happens to excess fuel? Is there a practical
way to add a high level warning?"
The additional issue I never considered (but a research scientist friend
who tests *everything*, did), was what happens to the *tank*. If you have a
typical vent system using -4 (1/4" OD) tubing, when fuel hits the vent, the
transfer pump can cause pressures in the tank to reach 10 psi. In case you
don't know, more than about 2 psi will damage most a/c fuel tanks in planes
like most of us fly.
Dilemma: positive protection from overfilling that can't fail and prevent
transfer.
Secondary dilemma, when using auto-transfer: Especially if there's more
than one aux tank, preventing the transfer pump from running (and
destroying itself) when pumping from an empty tank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
Thanks everyone for the advice... I came to the right place.
Bill Hunter
On May 31, 2017 5:40 AM, "Charlie England" wrote:
> Google 'dsub latch'. There are several different options for joining dsubs
> in-line; screws, sliding latches, and spring bales. My favorite style:
> http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-
> spring-latch/dp/39F1390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||
> match||slid||product|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-
> 164504983461&CAAGID 389674261&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-
> SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAjw07nJBRDG_tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-
> ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC_Jfw_wcB&
> CAWELAID=120185550001138611
>
> More positive security than screws, because it can't loosen with
> vibration. The same latch can be used on chassis mounted connectors, too,
> as long as the designer left enough room around the connector to add the
> springs. (Can you hear me, Advanced Flight Systems?)
>
> Charlie
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:43 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I hate those screws. I have seen barrel connectors which are female on
>> both ends, stuck between two D-sub shells. They require having a
>> screwdriver on both ends, Pain-in-the-a**.
>>
>> I am planning to use a pair a zip ties in a X in the places where I have
>> D-sub connectors in my plane. I would rather cut and replace the zip ties
>> than mess around with the screws.
>>
>> I will be really interested to see if anyone has better ideas.
>>
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 9:49 PM, William Hunter <
>> billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a couple of instances where I need to mate a male Dsub to a
>>> female Dsub end to end within the length of a wire bundle (example: connect
>>> the under panel wire harness to the wire harness of the control stick).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I already have the male and female Dsub connectors wired up and they are
>>> connected end to end and I have the plastic shells (see below) however the
>>> metal screws of the one shell needs to screw into a threaded bore of the
>>> other connector so that the two connectors do not disconnect. Kinda like
>>> when you attach the Dsub connector to the back of a computer the plug
>>> slides into the receptacle and then the screws on the connector shell
>>> thread into the threaded bore of the computer case.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How does one (me) do this on an end to end connector?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image:
>>> http://www.steinair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SA-1030-BACKSHELL-DSUB15-L-DSC09853.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Hunter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
>> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Can Westach Use 5VDC? |
I have two Westack capacitance fuel probes and I would like to power them
from PIN 18 of the Dynon Skyview. That pin is a 5 VDC output and the only
other item that this pin will power is a Grand Rapids CS-02 Hall Effect
Sensor.
Any experience would be most appreciated!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can Westach Use 5VDC? |
| From: | Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
From the specifications it doesn't appear you can use 5V to power these
probes. They are specified 12/24V (28V max), with the output being 0-5V.
You should power them from the main bus, or (if your Skyview
installation manual lists it), to the +12V Auxiliary Output pin (pin 15
of the 37-pin connector). Not all SkyView systems appear to have that
pin so double check.
On 6/1/2017 1:33 AM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> I have two Westack capacitance fuel probes and I would like to power
> them from PIN 18 of the Dynon Skyview. That pin is a 5 VDC output and
> the only other item that this pin will power is a Grand Rapids CS-02
> Hall Effect Sensor.
>
> Any experience would be most appreciated!!!
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
Easier link:
https://tinyurl.com/y9mhl2j5
[Wink]
ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> My favorite style:http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-spring-latch/dp/39F1390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||match||slid||product|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-164504983461&CAAGID 389674261&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAjw07nJBRDG_tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC_Jfw_wcB&CAWELAID=120185550001138611 (http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-spring-latch/dp/39F1390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||match||slid||product|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-164504983461&CAAGID 389674261&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAjw07nJBRDG_tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC_Jfw_wcB&CAWELAID=120185550001138611)
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469769#469769
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Which buries the destination, so you don't know where you're going when
you click it.
:-0
On 6/1/2017 9:28 AM, donjohnston wrote:
>
> Easier link:
> https://tinyurl.com/y9mhl2j5
>
> [Wink]
>
>
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> My favorite style:http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-spring-latch/dp/39F1390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||match||slid||product|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-164504983461&CAAGID 389674261&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAjw07nJBRDG_tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC_Jfw_wcB&CAWELAID=120185550001138611 (http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-spring-latch/dp/39F1390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||match||slid||product|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-164504983461&CAAGID 389674261&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAjw07nJBRDG_tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC_Jfw_wcB&CAWELAID=120185550001138611)
>>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automatic header tank filling |
>
>Also there is a drain (standard for Lancair
>header tanks) in case you overfill ' it just goes overboard.
>
>Would you mind sharing the schematic you already invented ?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Peter
Actually, the systems I've already developed are not applicable
to your task . . . but it's not difficult to sketch out
a suitable alternative.
I've got a deck project in Wichita that is soaking
up some prime-time energies . . . but I'll get
it posted Sunday.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
Not really. I just made a clickable link from your URL. So the destination is
newark.com.
Trying to copy/paste that long URL with a phone or tablet is a pain.
But hey, whatever stirs your grits.
ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Which buries the destination, so you don't know where you're going when
> you click it.
> :-0
>
> On 6/1/2017 9:28 AM, donjohnston wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Easier link:
> > https://tinyurl.com/y9mhl2j5
> >
> > [Wink]
> >
> >
> > ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> > > My favorite style:http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-spring-latch/dp/39F1390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||match||slid||product|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-164504983461&CAAGID 389674261&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAjw07nJBRDG_tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC_Jfw_wcB&CAWELAID=120185550001138611 (http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-spring-latch/dp/39F1390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||match||slid||product|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-164504983461&CAAGID 389674261&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAjw07nJBRDG_tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC_Jfw_wcB&CAWELAID=120185550001138611)
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469813#469813
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
More to the point, you can win a free glass panel for your airplane by
going here: http://bit.ly/2lHA1xP
> On Jun 3, 2017, at 5:54 PM, donjohnston <don@velocity-xl.com> wrote:
>
<don@velocity-xl.com>
>
> Not really. I just made a clickable link from your URL. So the
destination is newark.com.
>
> Trying to copy/paste that long URL with a phone or tablet is a pain.
>
> But hey, whatever stirs your grits.
>
>
>
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> Which buries the destination, so you don't know where you're going
when
>> you click it.
>> :-0
>>
>> On 6/1/2017 9:28 AM, donjohnston wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Easier link:
>>> https://tinyurl.com/y9mhl2j5
>>>
>>> [Wink]
>>>
>>>
>>> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
>>>> My favorite
style:http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-spring-latch/
dp/39F1390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||match||slid|
|product|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-164504983461&CAAGID
389674261&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEA
jw07nJBRDG_tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC
_Jfw_wcB&CAWELAID=120185550001138611
(http://www.newark.com/cooper-interconnect/17-529/d-sub-spring-latch/dp/39
F1390?mckv=sPyr8IJjG_dc|pcrid|81605889141|plid||kword||match||slid||prod
uct|39F1390|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-164504983461&CAAGID
389674261&CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-SHOPPING-39F1390&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEA
jw07nJBRDG_tvshefHhWQSJABRcE-ZuxQrtf1Qi0xFg5ATYZXSW2anCtcB-ENzwuu27bdAVhoC
_Jfw_wcB&CAWELAID=120185550001138611)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469813#469813
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Page <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
I think his point is that the Tinyurl link obfuscates the destination that you'll
reach when you click it. It might be benign, or it might not. Many people,
myself included, will not click a link without knowing what's likely to be at
the other end of the DNS rabbit hole.
Tinyurl provides the option of using preview links that begin with preview.tinyurl.com.
Those links take you to the tinyurl website where you can see the full
un-shortened URL and decide whether you want to go further. Very handy for
posting in forums like this one.
Eric
> On Jun 3, 2017, at 5:54 PM, donjohnston <don@velocity-xl.com> wrote:
>
> Not really. I just made a clickable link from your URL. So the destination
is newark.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
And since we know each other personally, and I know for sure that the
post came directly from you, and I totally trust that any link I click
on will not try to attack my computer.....
I know what you did. The problem with those shortened links is that if
you hover over them to see the destination, it only shows the short-link
provider; not the actual destination site. So you don't know until you
get there what site you're actually visiting.
Not sure why you're having to copy/paste. All the phones/tablets I've
used (both ios & android) allow you to just click on the hyperlink in
the email client to open the page in the device's browser.
Charlie
On 6/3/2017 5:54 PM, donjohnston wrote:
>
> Not really. I just made a clickable link from your URL. So the destination
is newark.com.
>
> Trying to copy/paste that long URL with a phone or tablet is a pain.
>
> But hey, whatever stirs your grits.
>
>
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> Which buries the destination, so you don't know where you're going when
>> you click it.
>> :-0
>>
>> On 6/1/2017 9:28 AM, donjohnston wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Easier link:
>>> https://tinyurl.com/y9mhl2j5
>>>
>>> [Wink]
>>>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dsub Connector Shell With Female Threaded |
Nor do I.
My apologies if my attempt to help offended anyone or caused any problems. I shall
show myself out now.
ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Not sure why you're having to copy/paste. All the phones/tablets I've used (both
ios & android) allow you to just click on the hyperlink in the email client
to open the page in the device's browser.
>
> Charlie
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469817#469817
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_grab_200.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | no messages since May23 |
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> |
Concurring with retasker - "this is just a test message" (read via the
BBS forum interface): no messages received since May 23;
same for Europa list and RotaxEngines list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: no messages since May23 |
| From: | Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
I'm seeing 29 messages since 23rd. Something is wrong on your end?
On 6/4/2017 10:20 AM, Jan de Jong wrote:
>
>
> Concurring with retasker - "this is just a test message" (read via the
> BBS forum interface): no messages received since May 23;
> same for Europa list and RotaxEngines list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automatic header tank filling |
At 09:01 PM 6/2/2017, you wrote:
>>
>>Also there is a drain (standard for Lancair
>>header tanks) in case you overfill ' it just goes overboard.
>>
>>Would you mind sharing the schematic you already invented ?
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>>Peter
>
>
Here's a couple of approaches to a fuel
transfer controller applicable to your
project.
http://tinyurl.com/yc4754vw
The first page shows ship's wiring for
power, switch, relay, pump and over-fill
warning light.
The second page illustrates a micro-controller
based control module. Input signal voltage
from the fuel gate is watched. The pump and
warning light are activated based on numbers
stored in the uC memory at the time software
is loaded to the controller. This is the
lowest parts count approach and very compact.
All the electronics would fit into the backshell
of a 15-pin d-sub connector.
The third page illustrates an analog comparator
approach to the same task. Potentiometers allow
you to 'tune' the switch points for pump operation
and illumination of the warning light.
In both cases, the warning light can be left
out if deemed unnecessary. Page 3 lends itself
to a DIY approach. If fuel gage voltages are
known, the uC approach would also work as a DIY
project. We can supply the uC with the target
voltages in situ. Those values are easily altered
as experience dictates. Just order up another chip
with revised calibration. The 'bad' chip isn't even
worth returning . . . they're about 80 cents.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: no messages since May23 |
| From: | "rvtach" <rvtach(at)msn.com> |
Same here. I've been subscribed to the digest emails and I haven't gotten anything
for a week or two. Not certain of the exact date they stopped. I've unsubscribed
and re-subscribed and no joy. Sent Matt an email yesterday but since its
a weekend and this is not exactly an urgent matter i'm not expecting a response
until later this week. Glad for the forums to get my daily electron fix.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469821#469821
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: no messages since May23 |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 6/4/2017 9:43 AM, rvtach wrote:
>
> Same here. I've been subscribed to the digest emails and I haven't gotten anything
for a week or two. Not certain of the exact date they stopped. I've unsubscribed
and re-subscribed and no joy. Sent Matt an email yesterday but since
its a weekend and this is not exactly an urgent matter i'm not expecting a response
until later this week. Glad for the forums to get my daily electron fix.
>
Have y'all checked your spam/junk folders? I just found your message,
and several others related to not getting emails in my spam folder.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Kathy McChesney <rvtach(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: no messages since May23 |
I did look in my other email folders and the Matronics emails are not there. I
did get confirmation emails in my in-box when I unsubscribed and then re-subscribed.
> On Jun 4, 2017, at 8:09 AM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> On 6/4/2017 9:43 AM, rvtach wrote:
>>
>> Same here. I've been subscribed to the digest emails and I haven't gotten anything
for a week or two. Not certain of the exact date they stopped. I've unsubscribed
and re-subscribed and no joy. Sent Matt an email yesterday but since
its a weekend and this is not exactly an urgent matter i'm not expecting a response
until later this week. Glad for the forums to get my daily electron fix.
>>
> Have y'all checked your spam/junk folders? I just found your message, and several
others related to not getting emails in my spam folder.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Automatic header tank filling |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
That surprises me. Even in my high wing aircraft the header tank vents
back to a main tank in the wing
Ken
On 04/06/2017 9:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 09:01 PM 6/2/2017, you wrote:
>>>
>>> Also there is a drain (standard for Lancair header tanks) in case
>>> you overfill it just goes overboard.
>>>
>>> Would you mind sharing the schematic you already invented ?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>
>
> Here's a couple of approaches to a fuel
> transfer controller applicable to your
> project.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yc4754vw
>
> The first page shows ship's wiring for
> power, switch, relay, pump and over-fill
> warning light.
>
> The second page illustrates a micro-controller
> based control module. Input signal voltage
> from the fuel gate is watched. The pump and
> warning light are activated based on numbers
> stored in the uC memory at the time software
> is loaded to the controller. This is the
> lowest parts count approach and very compact.
> All the electronics would fit into the backshell
> of a 15-pin d-sub connector.
>
> The third page illustrates an analog comparator
> approach to the same task. Potentiometers allow
> you to 'tune' the switch points for pump operation
> and illumination of the warning light.
>
> In both cases, the warning light can be left
> out if deemed unnecessary. Page 3 lends itself
> to a DIY approach. If fuel gage voltages are
> known, the uC approach would also work as a DIY
> project. We can supply the uC with the target
> voltages in situ. Those values are easily altered
> as experience dictates. Just order up another chip
> with revised calibration. The 'bad' chip isn't even
> worth returning . . . they're about 80 cents.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Sokolowski <air.peter(at)googlemail.com> |
| Subject: | Automatic header tank filling |
Thanks Bob,
I will go first with the analog comparator approach - having the relevant
voltages confirmed I will get the c ordered. BTW - what would be the price
?
Looking on the schematic - at least to the comparator one - there is no
hysteresis - right ? Iaw - the pump runs "all the time" the full limit is
not reached.
Will the c one have such a hysteresis in the SW ?
Br
Peter
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von C&K
Gesendet: Sonntag, 4. Juni 2017 18:18
An: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: Re: AW: AeroElectric-List: Automatic header tank filling
That surprises me. Even in my high wing aircraft the header tank vents back
to a main tank in the wing Ken
On 04/06/2017 9:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 09:01 PM 6/2/2017, you wrote:
>>>
>>> Also there is a drain (standard for Lancair header tanks) in case
>>> you overfill it just goes overboard.
>>>
>>> Would you mind sharing the schematic you already invented ?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>
>
> Here's a couple of approaches to a fuel
> transfer controller applicable to your
> project.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yc4754vw
>
> The first page shows ship's wiring for
> power, switch, relay, pump and over-fill
> warning light.
>
> The second page illustrates a micro-controller
> based control module. Input signal voltage
> from the fuel gate is watched. The pump and
> warning light are activated based on numbers
> stored in the uC memory at the time software
> is loaded to the controller. This is the
> lowest parts count approach and very compact.
> All the electronics would fit into the backshell
> of a 15-pin d-sub connector.
>
> The third page illustrates an analog comparator
> approach to the same task. Potentiometers allow
> you to 'tune' the switch points for pump operation
> and illumination of the warning light.
>
> In both cases, the warning light can be left
> out if deemed unnecessary. Page 3 lends itself
> to a DIY approach. If fuel gage voltages are
> known, the uC approach would also work as a DIY
> project. We can supply the uC with the target
> voltages in situ. Those values are easily altered
> as experience dictates. Just order up another chip
> with revised calibration. The 'bad' chip isn't even
> worth returning . . . they're about 80 cents.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AW: AW: Automatic header tank filling |
| From: | "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
You can have the uC . . . need feedback on your success/problems.
There is hysteresis on both comparators. Those values are not calculated . . .
I can expand on that now that I know which way you want to go. It would help
to know the target switching voltages . . . does your cap-fuel gage span 0-5 volts
for empty-full?
That uC version is compatible with my 'do-lots' board layout designed to fit into
the d-sub back shell.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9024/9024_FOOTPRINT.pdf
So once you've deduce the voltages for fill and overfill, we'll be able to supply
a ready-to-install control module . . . you can be the beta-test airframe.
My office computer boot-drive went TU this morning. I'm scrambling around to be
a new drive installed . . . old COA is illegible . . . will have to order a new
one off eBay . . . at the same time, Nvidia ap on Dr. Dee's computer refuses
to talk to the third monitor . . . #$%#$*!!! . . . ain't 'lectronics wunderful?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469830#469830
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Steer <steerr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Schematic Diagram Software |
I'm making some changes to the wiring in my Zenith 601HD, so need to
update the schematic diagram, which is similar to those in the back of
the Aeroelectric book. I have a .sch file, created in 2007, that
contains the original schematic diagram. Unfortunately, after two
changes of computers, the application that created that file has been
lost. What's worse, I don't remember the name of that application.
I've looked online for appropriate applications, and even tried a few of
them (e.g., KiCAD, EAGLE), but none of them recognizes the file.
Can anybody give me any pointers? Thanks very much.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Schematic Diagram Software |
At 07:06 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:
>
>I'm making some changes to the wiring in my Zenith 601HD, so need to
>update the schematic diagram, which is similar to those in the back
>of the Aeroelectric book. I have a .sch file, created in 2007, that
>contains the original schematic diagram. Unfortunately, after two
>changes of computers, the application that created that file has
>been lost. What's worse, I don't remember the name of that application.
>
>I've looked online for appropriate applications, and even tried a
>few of them (e.g., KiCAD, EAGLE), but none of them recognizes the file.
>
>Can anybody give me any pointers? Thanks very much.
I think the .sch extension is unique to
ExperessPCB software.
https://www.expresspcb.com/free-cad-software/
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Schematic Diagram Software |
| From: | Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
There's another schematic drawing program using .sch as extension.
Abacom sPlan:
http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/produkte.html
On 6/6/2017 3:05 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 07:06 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm making some changes to the wiring in my Zenith 601HD, so need to
>> update the schematic diagram, which is similar to those in the back
>> of the Aeroelectric book. I have a .sch file, created in 2007, that
>> contains the original schematic diagram. Unfortunately, after two
>> changes of computers, the application that created that file has been
>> lost. What's worse, I don't remember the name of that application.
>>
>> I've looked online for appropriate applications, and even tried a few
>> of them (e.g., KiCAD, EAGLE), but none of them recognizes the file.
>>
>> Can anybody give me any pointers? Thanks very much.
>
> I think the .sch extension is unique to
> ExperessPCB software.
>
>
> https://www.expresspcb.com/free-cad-software/
>
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | SL-70 Install /Configuration issues -> Installation |
Manual
Working on an installation/configuration issue related to my SL-70.
The latest Installation Manual I have is dated October 1999 and does not reference
how to enable the EXTended mode or that it is available. It is available
in the software in my SL-70 and I have been provided instructions to successfully
enable the EXTended mode - but I would like to know if there are any other
differences outlined in a later manual. Software currently in the SL-70 is
MICR 015 and FPGA 1.1 from the set-up screen and offers the EXTended mode option
in the configuration. Does anyone out there have a later version of the SL-70
Installation Manual?
I want to make sure it is working properly while helping my ADSB equipment vendor!
The SL-70 Installation Manual references the Altitude message only. I have
the SL-70R manual dated September 2003 and there are enough
differences that I am confident it does NOT fully apply to the SL-70! The SL-70R
Installation Manual references the EXTended mode and "Mode" messages that are
transmitted when the EXTended mode is enabled...hopefully, this info is also
present in a later version of the SL-70 Installation Manual.
Does anyone out there know how to 'capture' the RS-232 data as it is transmitted
from the SL-70 in a readable format? I have a serial port on my computer connected
to the TX pin from the SL-70 and set to 1200, 8, 1, N in HYPERTERM (old
Windows software). It does capture the 'bursts' of data but the results are
unintelligible on the software screen. The SL-70 Install Manual gives me a good
idea about what I 'should' be seeing. Maybe I need special settings or
special software!
Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can Westach Use 5VDC? |
Rob,
It took awhile for me to get back to this thread but THANKS!!!
For posterity sake, I tried the 5 VDC power source from Skyview and that
did not work however the 12 VDC PIN 15 works great!!!
Now I can check fuel by just firing up the Skyview (press and hold button
#1) and do not need to have to connect the battery master!!!
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
On Jun 1, 2017 2:19 AM, "Rob Turk" wrote:
> From the specifications it doesn't appear you can use 5V to power these
> probes. They are specified 12/24V (28V max), with the output being 0-5V.
> You should power them from the main bus, or (if your Skyview installation
> manual lists it), to the +12V Auxiliary Output pin (pin 15 of the 37-pin
> connector). Not all SkyView systems appear to have that pin so double check.
>
> On 6/1/2017 1:33 AM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> I have two Westack capacitance fuel probes and I would like to power them
> from PIN 18 of the Dynon Skyview. That pin is a 5 VDC output and the only
> other item that this pin will power is a Grand Rapids CS-02 Hall Effect
> Sensor.
>
>
> Any experience would be most appreciated!!!
>
> ..
>
>
> Cheers!!!
>
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SL-70 Install /Configuration issues -> Installation |
Manual
First of all, I have to say I don't know anything about the SL-70. But I thought
I'd just mention one possibility - if you see bursts of unintelligible data,
that's often indicative of a non-matching baud rate. Do you know for sure that
the SL-70 transmits its data at 1200 bps? That's actually a fairly slow rate...
again, without knowing the specs of the SL-70, I'd expect higher - like
maybe around 9600. If you're not sure of the baud rate, try higher rates and
see if you find one that gives intelligible data.
Dan
> Does anyone out there know how to 'capture' the RS-232 data as it is transmitted
from the SL-70 in a readable format? I have a serial port on my computer
connected to the TX pin from the SL-70 and set to 1200, 8, 1, N in HYPERTERM (old
Windows software). It does capture the 'bursts' of data but the results are
unintelligible on the software screen. The SL-70 Install Manual gives me a
good idea about what I 'should' be seeing. Maybe I need special settings or
special software!
>
> Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
>
>
>
>
>
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
| From: | "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com> |
Finally got the plane out to run the engine. I modified the circuit, adding the
100 uF capacitor and the 10 Ohm resistor per Bob's instruction.
Same behavior as before -- without engine running, the blades would change pitch
fairly consistently, with an occasional premature cut-off at the extremes when
trying to reverse the pitch; with the engine running, the pitch would change
slightly, but the power would be cut off rapidly.
I added my multi-meter in the loop to see what kind of current was flowing. Without
the engine running, cut-off would occur, as before, at around 9 Amps.
With the engine running, the meter indicated around 2 to 8 Amps before the circuit
was shut down, with most readings around 2 to 5 or so Amps before cut-off.
Not sure how reliable the meter readings are given the quick circuit shut-down.
--------
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469887#469887
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SL-70 Install /Configuration issues -> Installation |
Manual
Good question for verification Dan,
The SL-70 manual specifies it as an acceptable rate.
It is selected in the configuration of the SL-70.
The primary receiving device (MX-20) can only use 1200 Baud - and it is receiving
data properly and is displaying it without error messages.
Verified - and I have tried other rates without success...with and without reconfiguration!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com>
>Sent: Jun 7, 2017 3:56 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SL-70 Install /Configuration issues -> Installation
Manual
>
>
>First of all, I have to say I don't know anything about the SL-70. But I thought
I'd just mention one possibility - if you see bursts of unintelligible data,
that's often indicative of a non-matching baud rate. Do you know for sure
that the SL-70 transmits its data at 1200 bps? That's actually a fairly slow
rate... again, without knowing the specs of the SL-70, I'd expect higher - like
maybe around 9600. If you're not sure of the baud rate, try higher rates and
see if you find one that gives intelligible data.
>
>Dan
>
>> Does anyone out there know how to 'capture' the RS-232 data as it is transmitted
from the SL-70 in a readable format? I have a serial port on my computer
connected to the TX pin from the SL-70 and set to 1200, 8, 1, N in HYPERTERM
(old Windows software). It does capture the 'bursts' of data but the results
are unintelligible on the software screen. The SL-70 Install Manual gives me
a good idea about what I 'should' be seeing. Maybe I need special settings
or special software!
>>
>> Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ralph Capen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>---
>Dan Charrois
>President, Syzygy Research & Technology
>Phone: 780-961-2213
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Sherriff <rogsherriff(at)hotmail.com> |
I notice that the top terminal on the klixon circuit breakers is marked "li
ne." Does it matter on which terminal the bus or the LRU go?
Thanks,
Roger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 03:19 PM 6/8/2017, you wrote:
>I notice that the top terminal on the klixon circuit breakers is
>marked "line." Does it matter on which terminal the bus or the LRU go?
>
No.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
I just had an issue with recharging a flat aircraft battery by running the e
ngine after a hand start. Not enough residual battery juice to close the mai
n contactor, so no current flowing from the alternator to the battery.
Come to think of it it might be a generator instead of an alternator because
even without a power source for excitation the bus was powering the aircraf
t radio. Still, no current going to the battery with the contactor resolutel
y open.
Is this a really obvious well known phenomenon that I've never really though
t about before?
On Jun 8, 2017, at 16:19, Roger Sherriff wrote:
I notice that the top terminal on the klixon circuit breakers is marked "lin
e." Does it matter on which terminal the bus or the LRU go?
Thanks,
Roger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
At 03:41 PM 6/7/2017, you wrote:
>
>Finally got the plane out to run the engine. I modified the
>circuit, adding the 100 uF capacitor and the 10 Ohm resistor per
>Bob's instruction.
>
>Same behavior as before -- without engine running, the blades would
>change pitch fairly consistently, with an occasional premature
>cut-off at the extremes when trying to reverse the pitch; with the
>engine running, the pitch would change slightly, but the power would
>be cut off rapidly.
>
>I added my multi-meter in the loop to see what kind of current was
>flowing. Without the engine running, cut-off would occur, as
>before, at around 9 Amps.
>
>With the engine running, the meter indicated around 2 to 8 Amps
>before the circuit was shut down, with most readings around 2 to 5
>or so Amps before cut-off. Not sure how reliable the meter readings
>are given the quick circuit shut-down.
Well . . . fooey. This isn't going to be a 'problem'
with your bus voltage. Circuits of this strip are
inherently sensitive to dv/dt (fast rise noise) effects.
Unfortunately, I didn't push this circuit through the
DO160 examination . . . hmmmm . . . I think I was still
at Raytheon/Beech. It's no doubt possible to tranquilize
the little critter with the right test equipment but
that's no longer in my bag of tricks.
Let's go to plan B. In the time since that circuit
was proposed, moving to a digital sensing, timing
and reaction circuit makes a lot of sense. There's
a LOT MORE separate between the bus and the parts
that sift the fine sands of performance.
I'm up to my eyeballs in a couple of programs now
but I'll see if I can sketch out the diagram and
get my super software guy to program a chip
to try.
Watch this space . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation For A |
Plunger Switch?!?!?
Greetings,
I have built a fiberglass air filter box that has an automatic alternate
air
door that I want to monitor with a micro switch and I was hoping someone
could please give me a recommendation for a micro switch to purchase.
The construction of this air filter box is of =BD inch Divinycell foam
board
encapsulated with two layers of fiberglass (see attached photo) and the
alternate air door is a simple fiberglass flapper valve that is held
shut by
the spring action of the fiberglass valve and two magnets.
The design goal is that the flapper valve will shut when the engine is
not
running and then after the engine is started the spring action and the
magnets will hold the flapper valve shut. At times when the air filter
becomes clogged (ice or debris) the engine vacuum will pull on the
flapper
door with enough suction force that the magnets will separate and the
door
will open into the air box and allow unfiltered air from the engine
compartment to flow to the engine. The magnets are encapsulated in the
fiberglass of the door and the air box walls so there is not fear of
them
falling into the engine.
So=85getting back to the switch=85it needs to have the following
attributes:
-Plunger type switch that has a very light spring that forces the switch
plunger to the extended position.
-When the switch is pushed in the contacts need to be open and when the
switch is allowed to extend the contacts need to close so my indicator
light
will illuminate.
-The threaded shaft of the switch should be about =BD inch long.
-Threaded shaft is made of plastic
My goal is to install the switch from the outside so that the switch
body is
on the outside of the box and only the plunger assembly is inserted into
the
sidewall mounting hole just long enough so that the switch will be
pressed
in when the flapper valve is closed. If the threaded shaft is plastic
then
I can use epoxy to glue the switch threads into the sidewall of the air
box
and therefore it would not need a nut on the inside wall of the air box
so
there would be no worry about the nut falling into the engine intake.
Here is a picture of a switch that could work=85I would not use the nuts
and I
would also prefer that the body and the plunger were made of plastic
and I
have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
If anyone has a suggestion as to the specific switch I should use I
would be
most grateful for the advice!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation For |
A Plunger Switch?!?!?
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 6/8/2017 9:22 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I have built a fiberglass air filter box that has an automatic
> alternate air door that I want to monitor with a micro switch and I
> was hoping someone could please give me a recommendation for a micro
> switch to purchase.
>
> The construction of this air filter box is of inch Divinycell foam
> board encapsulated with two layers of fiberglass (see attached photo)
> and the alternate air door is a simple fiberglass flapper valve that
> is held shut by the spring action of the fiberglass valve and two
> magnets.
>
> The design goal is that the flapper valve will shut when the engine is
> not running and then after the engine is started the spring action and
> the magnets will hold the flapper valve shut. At times when the air
> filter becomes clogged (ice or debris) the engine vacuum will pull on
> the flapper door with enough suction force that the magnets will
> separate and the door will open into the air box and allow unfiltered
> air from the engine compartment to flow to the engine. The magnets
> are encapsulated in the fiberglass of the door and the air box walls
> so there is not fear of them falling into the engine.
>
> Sogetting back to the switchit needs to have the following attributes:
>
> -Plunger type switch that has a very light spring that forces the
> switch plunger to the extended position.
>
> -When the switch is pushed in the contacts need to be open and when
> the switch is allowed to extend the contacts need to close so my
> indicator light will illuminate.
>
> -The threaded shaft of the switch should be about inch long.
>
> -Threaded shaft is made of plastic
>
> My goal is to install the switch from the outside so that the switch
> body is on the outside of the box and only the plunger assembly is
> inserted into the sidewall mounting hole just long enough so that the
> switch will be pressed in when the flapper valve is closed. If the
> threaded shaft is plastic then I can use epoxy to glue the switch
> threads into the sidewall of the air box and therefore it would not
> need a nut on the inside wall of the air box so there would be no
> worry about the nut falling into the engine intake.
>
> Here is a picture of a switch that could workI would not use the nuts
> and I would also prefer that the body and the plunger were made of
> plastic and I have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
>
> 1EN1-6 Honeywell Microswitch
>
> If anyone has a suggestion as to the specific switch I should use I
> would be most grateful for the advice!!!
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
If you don't write restrictive requirements, you often get more useful
ideas. :-)
https://www.google.com/search?q=magnetic+prox+switch&oq=magnetic+prox+switch&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.6126j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation For |
A Plunger Switch?!?!?
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 6/8/2017 9:42 PM, Charlie England wrote:
> On 6/8/2017 9:22 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I have built a fiberglass air filter box that has an automatic
>> alternate air door that I want to monitor with a micro switch and I
>> was hoping someone could please give me a recommendation for a micro
>> switch to purchase.
>>
>> The construction of this air filter box is of inch Divinycell foam
>> board encapsulated with two layers of fiberglass (see attached photo)
>> and the alternate air door is a simple fiberglass flapper valve that
>> is held shut by the spring action of the fiberglass valve and two
>> magnets.
>>
>> The design goal is that the flapper valve will shut when the engine
>> is not running and then after the engine is started the spring action
>> and the magnets will hold the flapper valve shut. At times when the
>> air filter becomes clogged (ice or debris) the engine vacuum will
>> pull on the flapper door with enough suction force that the magnets
>> will separate and the door will open into the air box and allow
>> unfiltered air from the engine compartment to flow to the engine.
>> The magnets are encapsulated in the fiberglass of the door and the
>> air box walls so there is not fear of them falling into the engine.
>>
>> Sogetting back to the switchit needs to have the following attributes:
>>
>> -Plunger type switch that has a very light spring that forces the
>> switch plunger to the extended position.
>>
>> -When the switch is pushed in the contacts need to be open and when
>> the switch is allowed to extend the contacts need to close so my
>> indicator light will illuminate.
>>
>> -The threaded shaft of the switch should be about inch long.
>>
>> -Threaded shaft is made of plastic
>>
>> My goal is to install the switch from the outside so that the switch
>> body is on the outside of the box and only the plunger assembly is
>> inserted into the sidewall mounting hole just long enough so that the
>> switch will be pressed in when the flapper valve is closed. If the
>> threaded shaft is plastic then I can use epoxy to glue the switch
>> threads into the sidewall of the air box and therefore it would not
>> need a nut on the inside wall of the air box so there would be no
>> worry about the nut falling into the engine intake.
>>
>> Here is a picture of a switch that could workI would not use the
>> nuts and I would also prefer that the body and the plunger were made
>> of plastic and I have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
>>
>> 1EN1-6 Honeywell Microswitch
>>
>> If anyone has a suggestion as to the specific switch I should use I
>> would be most grateful for the advice!!!
>>
>> ..
>>
>> Cheers!!!
>>
>> Bill Hunter
>>
> If you don't write restrictive requirements, you often get more useful
> ideas. :-)
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=magnetic+prox+switch&oq=magnetic+prox+switch&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.6126j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
or more specifically,
https://www.google.com/search?q=magnetic+prox+switch&oq=magnetic+prox+switch&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.6126j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=surface+mount+window+contact
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 07:33 PM 6/8/2017, you wrote:
>I just had an issue with recharging a flat aircraft battery by
>running the engine after a hand start. Not enough residual battery
>juice to close the main contactor, so no current flowing from the
>alternator to the battery.
>
>Come to think of it it might be a generator instead of an alternator
>because even without a power source for excitation the bus was
>powering the aircraft radio. Still, no current going to the battery
>with the contactor resolutely open.
>
>Is this a really obvious well known phenomenon that I've never
>really thought about before?
Waaayyy back in the dark ages . . . but after Lucky Lindy,
only generators were considered to be 'self exciting' but
then only if the field was 'flashed' so as to possess some
residual magnetism. Alternators too had some non-zero
retentivity but generally too low to bring an alternator
on line at ordinary speeds.
There WERE notable exceptions. Alternators on the Bonanzas
and Barons were expected to self excite at cruise rpms . . .
and most did . . . but that's an interesting story for another
time.
Today's alternators, PARTICULARLY those that run nearly 10k
rpm on the front of a Lycoming will come on line self excited
if lightly loaded . . . and will run well. So your observation
may not be a strange as you would think.
Having said that, it's generally a poor idea to recharge
a flat battery with the ship's alternator . . . use
jumper cables to an automobile for a few minutes to stir
up the battery's chemistry and avoid unpredictable
perturbations of bus voltage during early phase of
recharge . . . and know this is not very good for
the battery's service life. Putting a regulated, 10A
charger on it for an hour or so is much preferred.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation |
For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
>
>So=85getting back to the switch=85it needs to have the following
attributes:
>
>-Plunger type switch that has a very light
>spring that forces the switch plunger to the extended position.
>-When the switch is pushed in the contacts need
>to be open and when the switch is allowed to
>extend the contacts need to close so my indicator light will illuminate.
>-The threaded shaft of the switch should be about =BD inch long.
>-Threaded shaft is made of plastic
>
>My goal is to install the switch from the
>outside so that the switch body is on the
>outside of the box and only the plunger assembly
>is inserted into the sidewall mounting hole just
>long enough so that the switch will be pressed
>in when the flapper valve is closed. If the
>threaded shaft is plastic then I can use epoxy
>to glue the switch threads into the sidewall of
>the air box and therefore it would not need a
>nut on the inside wall of the air box so there
>would be no worry about the nut falling into the engine intake.
>
>Here is a picture of a switch that could work=85I
>would not use the nuts and I would also prefer
>that the body and the plunger were made
>of plastic and I have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
Emacs!
The switch you have illustrated is a Honeywell product used extensively
in aviation for harsh environment limit switching . . . like landing
gear.
When disassembled, you find two basic switches inside a weathertight
housing. There is a spring in the threaded barrel that gives this
switch a VERY high operating force. Then, you will find that
this product is expensive . . . in fact, I don't think they are
catalog items. Examples I encountered at Raytheon/Beech were
custom built to our specs for stroke, over-travel, force,
and style of basic switch.
If you want to go with a 'hard' switch, check out the
range of options offered here:
http://tinyurl.com/y7lnmvpu
There are products adaptable to your task but you'll have
to figure out mounting and actuator configurations.
Charlie's suggestion for non-contact sensing is excellent
too. A button magnet or metalic target bonded to the door
and sensed by some form of proximity device. Some
examples:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3vzncr
The later options are essentially zero-actuation-force,
and usually very robust in crappy environments.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation |
For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
THANKS for the feedback.
A plastic plunger magnetic sensing switch would be great. The
fiberglass
air box base and the flapper valve each have a magnet installed so when
the
flapper is moved away from the air box base there will still be a magnet
located directly next to the proximity switch so do you supposed that
would
affect the switch action?
Whoa=85Digikey sure has a bunch of switches. I tried to use the filter
function however I did not know what to select for the various filters.
If I have to stick with a =93hard=94 snap action switch I assume the one
I need
will be a SP ST NC switch? The NC part I am unsure of=85If the flapper
door
is closed and pushing down on the plunger switch then I want the
contacts to
be open and then when the door opens the plunger will be extended so I
want
the contacts to be closed so I believe this is called a NC switch.
Should I
select =93MOM-OFF=94 or =93ON MOM=94in the filter?
The Judco Manufacturing Inc. 40-4819-00 switch looks like it will work
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Judco%20PDFs/40-4819-00.pdf
How can one (me) determine how strong the spring is?
..
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A
Recommendation
For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
So=85getting back to the switch=85it needs to have the following
attributes:
-Plunger type switch that has a very light spring that forces the switch
plunger to the extended position.
-When the switch is pushed in the contacts need to be open and when the
switch is allowed to extend the contacts need to close so my indicator
light
will illuminate.
-The threaded shaft of the switch should be about =BD inch long.
-Threaded shaft is made of plastic
My goal is to install the switch from the outside so that the switch
body is
on the outside of the box and only the plunger assembly is inserted into
the
sidewall mounting hole just long enough so that the switch will be
pressed
in when the flapper valve is closed. If the threaded shaft is plastic
then
I can use epoxy to glue the switch threads into the sidewall of the air
box
and therefore it would not need a nut on the inside wall of the air box
so
there would be no worry about the nut falling into the engine intake.
Here is a picture of a switch that could work=85I would not use the nuts
and I
would also prefer that the body and the plunger were made of plastic
and I
have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
The switch you have illustrated is a Honeywell product used
extensively
in aviation for harsh environment limit switching . . . like landing
gear.
When disassembled, you find two basic switches inside a weathertight
housing. There is a spring in the threaded barrel that gives this
switch a VERY high operating force. Then, you will find that
this product is expensive . . . in fact, I don't think they are
catalog items. Examples I encountered at Raytheon/Beech were
custom built to our specs for stroke, over-travel, force,
and style of basic switch.
If you want to go with a 'hard' switch, check out the
range of options offered here:
http://tinyurl.com/y7lnmvpu
There are products adaptable to your task but you'll have
to figure out mounting and actuator configurations.
Charlie's suggestion for non-contact sensing is excellent
too. A button magnet or metalic target bonded to the door
and sensed by some form of proximity device. Some
examples:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3vzncr
The later options are essentially zero-actuation-force,
and usually very robust in crappy environments.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation For |
A Plunger Switch?!?!?
Burglar alarm switches typically activate with around a 1/2" gap, max. Just
order a SPDT surface mount window contact, glue the magnet to the door and
mount the switch on the perimeter of the opening. The SPDT allows you to
wire NO or NC; your choice.
https://www.elvessupply.com/Honeywell-Sensors-7939-2WH-Surface-Mount-Contac
t-Spdt-Wh_p_337005.html?gclid=CjwKEAjwjunJBRDzl6iCpoKS4G0SJACJAx-VG9UBele
MqS-_LAKOkZ6xb8EjYY_HWPEU9mHkZIxe6BoC6BPw_wcB
Something like that will many times more reliable than any snap action
switch you can purchase. The last time I did burg alarm install work, my
supplier offered a 5 for 1 replacement warranty against *anything*
including lightning damage. The 'contacts' are in an inert gas filled,
sealed glass chamber, and the mounting is more compact than any plunger
you're likely to find. Google 'reed switch' to see what's inside.
Just don't try to drive some 5 amp siren through it. :-)
Charlie
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 12:57 PM, William Hunter
wrote:
>
>
> THANKS for the feedback.
>
>
> A plastic plunger magnetic sensing switch would be great. The fiberglass
> air box base and the flapper valve each have a magnet installed so when t
he
> flapper is moved away from the air box base there will still be a magnet
> located directly next to the proximity switch so do you supposed that wou
ld
> affect the switch action?
>
>
> WhoaDigikey sure has a bunch of switches. I tried to use the fi
lter
> function however I did not know what to select for the various filters.
>
>
> If I have to stick with a =9Chard=9D snap action switch I ass
ume the one I
> need will be a SP ST NC switch? The NC part I am unsure ofIf th
e flapper
> door is closed and pushing down on the plunger switch then I want the
> contacts to be open and then when the door opens the plunger will be
> extended so I want the contacts to be closed so I believe this is called
a
> NC switch. Should I select =9CMOM-OFF=9D or =9CON MOM
=9Din the filter?
>
>
> The Judco Manufacturing Inc. 40-4819-00 switch looks like it will work
> https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Judco%20PDFs/40-4819-00.pdf
>
>
> How can one (me) determine how strong the spring is?
>
>
> ..
>
>
> THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP!!!
>
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III
> *Sent:* Friday, June 9, 2017 7:57 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A
> Recommendation For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
>
>
> Sogetting back to the switchit needs to have the follow
ing attributes:
>
> -Plunger type switch that has a very light spring that forces the switch
> plunger to the extended position.
> -When the switch is pushed in the contacts need to be open and when the
> switch is allowed to extend the contacts need to close so my indicator
> light will illuminate.
> -The threaded shaft of the switch should be about =C2=BD inch long.
> -Threaded shaft is made of plastic
>
> My goal is to install the switch from the outside so that the switch body
> is on the outside of the box and only the plunger assembly is inserted in
to
> the sidewall mounting hole just long enough so that the switch will be
> pressed in when the flapper valve is closed. If the threaded shaft is
> plastic then I can use epoxy to glue the switch threads into the sidewall
> of the air box and therefore it would not need a nut on the inside wall o
f
> the air box so there would be no worry about the nut falling into the
> engine intake.
>
> Here is a picture of a switch that could workI would not use the
nuts and
> I would also prefer that the body and the plunger were made of plastic a
nd
> I have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
>
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
>
> The switch you have illustrated is a Honeywell product used extensively
> in aviation for harsh environment limit switching . . . like landing
> gear.
>
> When disassembled, you find two basic switches inside a weathertight
> housing. There is a spring in the threaded barrel that gives this
> switch a VERY high operating force. Then, you will find that
> this product is expensive . . . in fact, I don't think they are
> catalog items. Examples I encountered at Raytheon/Beech were
> custom built to our specs for stroke, over-travel, force,
> and style of basic switch.
>
> If you want to go with a 'hard' switch, check out the
> range of options offered here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y7lnmvpu
>
> There are products adaptable to your task but you'll have
> to figure out mounting and actuator configurations.
>
> Charlie's suggestion for non-contact sensing is excellent
> too. A button magnet or metalic target bonded to the door
> and sensed by some form of proximity device. Some
> examples:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yd3vzncr
>
> The later options are essentially zero-actuation-force,
> and usually very robust in crappy environments.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation For |
A Plunger Switch?!?!?
William;
Why the insistence on a "plunger" style where you need to be concerned with
spring pressure and possibly weather resistance?? Why not take the earlier
replies suggestion of an inductive "PROXIMITY" switch which detects the
closeness of a piece or ferrous metal and is generally sealed against all
external environmental influence? (NOT switched by a magnet as someone
suggested. Switches responding to magnets are usually "reed" switches) You
then
don't need to worry about how strong the "spring" is as there isn't one. Wh
en
the little piece of steel you embed in your fiberglass door is adjacent to
the
switch the switch is either "open" or "closed" depending upon whether you s
elect
a NO or NC switch. "Normal" by the way refers to the switches condition sit
ting
in space without activation, the switch "switches" to the opposite state wh
en
the ferrous target is close. Would make choice and installation a whole lot
simpler. Just bring your door adjacent to the switch and, Bingo, it switche
s.
Alternatively move your door away from the switch and it switches the other
way.
No contact, moving parts, or forces involved.
Bob McC
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com>
> Date: June 9, 2017 at 1:57 PM
>
>
>
>
> THANKS for the feedback.
>
>
>
> A plastic plunger magnetic sensing switch would be great. The fibergl
ass
> air box base and the flapper valve each have a magnet installed so when t
he
> flapper is moved away from the air box base there will still be a magnet
> located directly next to the proximity switch so do you supposed that wou
ld
> affect the switch action?
>
>
>
> WhoaDigikey sure has a bunch of switches. I tried to use the
filter
> function however I did not know what to select for the various filters.
>
>
>
> If I have to stick with a =9Chard=9D snap action switch I
assume the one I
> need will be a SP ST NC switch? The NC part I am unsure ofIf the
flapper door
> is closed and pushing down on the plunger switch then I want the contacts
to
> be open and then when the door opens the plunger will be extended so I wa
nt
> the contacts to be closed so I believe this is called a NC switch. Should
I
> select =9CMOM-OFF=9D or =9CON MOM=9Din the filter
?
>
>
>
> The Judco Manufacturing Inc. 40-4819-00 switch looks like it will wor
k
> https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Judco%20PDFs/40-4819-00.pdf
>
>
>
> How can one (me) determine how strong the spring is?
>
>
>
> ..
>
>
>
> THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP!!!
>
>
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 7:57 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A
> Recommendation For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
>
>
>
> > >
> >
> > Sogetting back to the switchit needs to have
the following
> > attributes:
> >
> > -Plunger type switch that has a very light spring that forces t
he
> > switch plunger to the extended position.
> > -When the switch is pushed in the contacts need to be open and
when
> > the switch is allowed to extend the contacts need to close so my indica
tor
> > light will illuminate.
> > -The threaded shaft of the switch should be about 1=81=842 i
nch long.
> > -Threaded shaft is made of plastic
> >
> > My goal is to install the switch from the outside so that the s
witch
> > body is on the outside of the box and only the plunger assembly is inse
rted
> > into the sidewall mounting hole just long enough so that the switch wil
l be
> > pressed in when the flapper valve is closed. If the threaded shaft is
> > plastic then I can use epoxy to glue the switch threads into the sidewa
ll of
> > the air box and therefore it would not need a nut on the inside wall of
the
> > air box so there would be no worry about the nut falling into the engin
e
> > intake.
> >
> > Here is a picture of a switch that could workI would n
ot use the
> > nuts and I would also prefer that the body and the plunger were made of
> > plastic and I have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
> >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> The switch you have illustrated is a Honeywell product used extensi
vely
> in aviation for harsh environment limit switching . . . like landin
g
> gear.
>
> When disassembled, you find two basic switches inside a weathertigh
t
> housing. There is a spring in the threaded barrel that gives this
> switch a VERY high operating force. Then, you will find that
> this product is expensive . . . in fact, I don't think they are
> catalog items. Examples I encountered at Raytheon/Beech were
> custom built to our specs for stroke, over-travel, force,
> and style of basic switch.
>
> If you want to go with a 'hard' switch, check out the
> range of options offered here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y7lnmvpu
>
> There are products adaptable to your task but you'll have
> to figure out mounting and actuator configurations.
>
> Charlie's suggestion for non-contact sensing is excellent
> too. A button magnet or metalic target bonded to the door
> and sensed by some form of proximity device. Some
> examples:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yd3vzncr
>
> The later options are essentially zero-actuation-force,
> and usually very robust in crappy environments.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation For |
A Plunger Switch?!?!?
> Why the insistence on a "plunger" style where you need to be concerned
with spring pressure and possibly weather resistance?? Why not take the
earlier replies suggestion of an inductive "PROXIMITY" switch which
detects the closeness of a piece or ferrous metal and is generally
sealed against all external environmental influence? (NOT switched by a
magnet as someone suggested. Switches responding to magnets are usually
"reed" switches)
I am not insisting on a plunger switchthe proximity switch
sounds like a superior idealess moving parts to fall into the
engine if the switch falls apart.
If I install a proximity switch directly next to a magnet (meaning side
by side) will it work? In other wordsmy flapper door has a
magnet and so does the air box structure and the two magnets pulling
toward each other is mostly what keeps the flapper door closed (these
are really strong magnets). The only practical place to install a
switch is side by side with the magnet that is installed in the air box
structure so therefore the proximity switch will only be 1 inch away
from the magnet installed in the structure of the air boxyes
the magnet that is connected to the flapper door will move away with the
flapper door and so will the ferrous metal =9Ctarget=9D that
is installed next to the magnet in the flapper door however the
proximity switch is still just one inch away from the magnet in the
structure.
Here is a switch that might work:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENSOR-PLASTIC-BARREL-M8-NO-Proximity-Sensors-S
N36555-/381449156652?hash=item58d024382c:g:yKwAAOSwl9BWLjvd
<http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENSOR-PLASTIC-BARREL-M8-NO-Proximity-Sensors-
SN36555-/381449156652?hash=item58d024382c:g:yKwAAOSwl9BWLjvd&_trksid=
p2349526.m3874.l7936> &_trksid=p2349526.m3874.l7936
It says =9CNO=9D however would I not need a
=9CNC=9D switch so that when the target is close to the
proximity sensor the contacts are open and then when the target moves
away the from the sensor (the Normal state of the sensor) the contacts
will close?
The window sensors are a great idea however I do not have enough room.
AgainI GREATLY APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert McCallum
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A
Recommendation For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
William;
Why the insistence on a "plunger" style where you need to be concerned
with spring pressure and possibly weather resistance?? Why not take the
earlier replies suggestion of an inductive "PROXIMITY" switch which
detects the closeness of a piece or ferrous metal and is generally
sealed against all external environmental influence? (NOT switched by a
magnet as someone suggested. Switches responding to magnets are usually
"reed" switches) You then don't need to worry about how strong the
"spring" is as there isn't one. When the little piece of steel you embed
in your fiberglass door is adjacent to the switch the switch is either
"open" or "closed" depending upon whether you select a NO or NC switch.
"Normal" by the way refers to the switches condition sitting in space
without activation, the switch "switches" to the opposite state when the
ferrous target is close. Would make choice and installation a whole lot
simpler. Just bring your door adjacent to the switch and, Bingo, it
switches. Alternatively move your door away from the switch and it
switches the other way. No contact, moving parts, or forces involved.
Bob McC
---------- Original Message ----------
From: William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com
>
Date: June 9, 2017 at 1:57 PM
THANKS for the feedback.
A plastic plunger magnetic sensing switch would be great. The fiberglass
air box base and the flapper valve each have a magnet installed so when
the flapper is moved away from the air box base there will still be a
magnet located directly next to the proximity switch so do you supposed
that would affect the switch action?
WhoaDigikey sure has a bunch of switches. I tried to use the
filter function however I did not know what to select for the various
filters.
If I have to stick with a =9Chard=9D snap action switch I
assume the one I need will be a SP ST NC switch? The NC part I am unsure
ofIf the flapper door is closed and pushing down on the plunger
switch then I want the contacts to be open and then when the door opens
the plunger will be extended so I want the contacts to be closed so I
believe this is called a NC switch. Should I select
=9CMOM-OFF=9D or =9CON MOM=9Din the filter?
The Judco Manufacturing Inc. 40-4819-00 switch looks like it will work
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Judco%20PDFs/40-4819-00.pdf
How can one (me) determine how strong the spring is?
..
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A
Recommendation For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
Sogetting back to the switchit needs to have the
following attributes:
-Plunger type switch that has a very light spring that forces the switch
plunger to the extended position.
-When the switch is pushed in the contacts need to be open and when the
switch is allowed to extend the contacts need to close so my indicator
light will illuminate.
-The threaded shaft of the switch should be about 1=81=842 inch long.
-Threaded shaft is made of plastic
My goal is to install the switch from the outside so that the switch
body is on the outside of the box and only the plunger assembly is
inserted into the sidewall mounting hole just long enough so that the
switch will be pressed in when the flapper valve is closed. If the
threaded shaft is plastic then I can use epoxy to glue the switch
threads into the sidewall of the air box and therefore it would not need
a nut on the inside wall of the air box so there would be no worry about
the nut falling into the engine intake.
Here is a picture of a switch that could workI would not use
the nuts and I would also prefer that the body and the plunger were made
of plastic and I have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
The switch you have illustrated is a Honeywell product used
extensively
in aviation for harsh environment limit switching . . . like landing
gear.
When disassembled, you find two basic switches inside a weathertight
housing. There is a spring in the threaded barrel that gives this
switch a VERY high operating force. Then, you will find that
this product is expensive . . . in fact, I don't think they are
catalog items. Examples I encountered at Raytheon/Beech were
custom built to our specs for stroke, over-travel, force,
and style of basic switch.
If you want to go with a 'hard' switch, check out the
range of options offered here:
http://tinyurl.com/y7lnmvpu
There are products adaptable to your task but you'll have
to figure out mounting and actuator configurations.
Charlie's suggestion for non-contact sensing is excellent
too. A button magnet or metalic target bonded to the door
and sensed by some form of proximity device. Some
examples:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3vzncr
The later options are essentially zero-actuation-force,
and usually very robust in crappy environments.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation For |
A Plunger Switch?!?!?
How about a =9CCapacitance Proximity Switch=9D
https://www.amazon.com/Uxcell-Capacitance-Proximity-Sensor-Switch/dp/B005
42U3M4/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8
&qid=1497072880&sr=8-12&keywords=proximity+switch
If I understand this correctlyI would need to provide a 12 VDC
power wire, a ground, and then the third wire would be the 12VDC signal
wire to my EFIS input.
It seems this gizmo will sense plastic being close of if it is moved
away.
I understand the concept of Normally Open with respect to a regular old
push button switchwhen the button is not pushed then that is
the =9Cnormal=9D condition (switch out in space with nothing
touching it) however with respect to proximity switches is the normal
condition when the target is close or away?
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie England
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A
Recommendation For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
Burglar alarm switches typically activate with around a 1/2" gap, max.
Just order a SPDT surface mount window contact, glue the magnet to the
door and mount the switch on the perimeter of the opening. The SPDT
allows you to wire NO or NC; your choice.
https://www.elvessupply.com/Honeywell-Sensors-7939-2WH-Surface-Mount-Cont
act-Spdt-Wh_p_337005.html?gclid=CjwKEAjwjunJBRDzl6iCpoKS4G0SJACJAx-VG9U
BeleMqS-_LAKOkZ6xb8EjYY_HWPEU9mHkZIxe6BoC6BPw_wcB
Something like that will many times more reliable than any snap action
switch you can purchase. The last time I did burg alarm install work, my
supplier offered a 5 for 1 replacement warranty against *anything*
including lightning damage. The 'contacts' are in an inert gas filled,
sealed glass chamber, and the mounting is more compact than any plunger
you're likely to find. Google 'reed switch' to see what's inside.
Just don't try to drive some 5 amp siren through it. :-)
Charlie
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 12:57 PM, William Hunter
> wrote:
THANKS for the feedback.
A plastic plunger magnetic sensing switch would be great. The
fiberglass air box base and the flapper valve each have a magnet
installed so when the flapper is moved away from the air box base there
will still be a magnet located directly next to the proximity switch so
do you supposed that would affect the switch action?
WhoaDigikey sure has a bunch of switches. I tried to use the
filter function however I did not know what to select for the various
filters.
If I have to stick with a =9Chard=9D snap action switch I
assume the one I need will be a SP ST NC switch? The NC part I am
unsure ofIf the flapper door is closed and pushing down on the
plunger switch then I want the contacts to be open and then when the
door opens the plunger will be extended so I want the contacts to be
closed so I believe this is called a NC switch. Should I select
=9CMOM-OFF=9D or =9CON MOM=9Din the filter?
The Judco Manufacturing Inc. 40-4819-00 switch looks like it will work
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Judco%20PDFs/40-4819-00.pdf
How can one (me) determine how strong the spring is?
..
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A
Recommendation For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
Sogetting back to the switchit needs to have the
following attributes:
-Plunger type switch that has a very light spring that forces the switch
plunger to the extended position.
-When the switch is pushed in the contacts need to be open and when the
switch is allowed to extend the contacts need to close so my indicator
light will illuminate.
-The threaded shaft of the switch should be about =C2=BD inch long.
-Threaded shaft is made of plastic
My goal is to install the switch from the outside so that the switch
body is on the outside of the box and only the plunger assembly is
inserted into the sidewall mounting hole just long enough so that the
switch will be pressed in when the flapper valve is closed. If the
threaded shaft is plastic then I can use epoxy to glue the switch
threads into the sidewall of the air box and therefore it would not need
a nut on the inside wall of the air box so there would be no worry about
the nut falling into the engine intake.
Here is a picture of a switch that could workI would not use
the nuts and I would also prefer that the body and the plunger were made
of plastic and I have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
The switch you have illustrated is a Honeywell product used
extensively
in aviation for harsh environment limit switching . . . like landing
gear.
When disassembled, you find two basic switches inside a weathertight
housing. There is a spring in the threaded barrel that gives this
switch a VERY high operating force. Then, you will find that
this product is expensive . . . in fact, I don't think they are
catalog items. Examples I encountered at Raytheon/Beech were
custom built to our specs for stroke, over-travel, force,
and style of basic switch.
If you want to go with a 'hard' switch, check out the
range of options offered here:
http://tinyurl.com/y7lnmvpu
There are products adaptable to your task but you'll have
to figure out mounting and actuator configurations.
Charlie's suggestion for non-contact sensing is excellent
too. A button magnet or metalic target bonded to the door
and sensed by some form of proximity device. Some
examples:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3vzncr
The later options are essentially zero-actuation-force,
and usually very robust in crappy environments.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Can Someone PLEASE Provide A Recommendation For |
A Plunger Switch?!?!?
YouTube answered my NC verses NO question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PtNGlj0u7g
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie England
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A
Recommendation For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
Burglar alarm switches typically activate with around a 1/2" gap, max.
Just order a SPDT surface mount window contact, glue the magnet to the
door and mount the switch on the perimeter of the opening. The SPDT
allows you to wire NO or NC; your choice.
https://www.elvessupply.com/Honeywell-Sensors-7939-2WH-Surface-Mount-Cont
act-Spdt-Wh_p_337005.html?gclid=CjwKEAjwjunJBRDzl6iCpoKS4G0SJACJAx-VG9U
BeleMqS-_LAKOkZ6xb8EjYY_HWPEU9mHkZIxe6BoC6BPw_wcB
Something like that will many times more reliable than any snap action
switch you can purchase. The last time I did burg alarm install work, my
supplier offered a 5 for 1 replacement warranty against *anything*
including lightning damage. The 'contacts' are in an inert gas filled,
sealed glass chamber, and the mounting is more compact than any plunger
you're likely to find. Google 'reed switch' to see what's inside.
Just don't try to drive some 5 amp siren through it. :-)
Charlie
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 12:57 PM, William Hunter
> wrote:
THANKS for the feedback.
A plastic plunger magnetic sensing switch would be great. The
fiberglass air box base and the flapper valve each have a magnet
installed so when the flapper is moved away from the air box base there
will still be a magnet located directly next to the proximity switch so
do you supposed that would affect the switch action?
WhoaDigikey sure has a bunch of switches. I tried to use the
filter function however I did not know what to select for the various
filters.
If I have to stick with a =9Chard=9D snap action switch I
assume the one I need will be a SP ST NC switch? The NC part I am
unsure ofIf the flapper door is closed and pushing down on the
plunger switch then I want the contacts to be open and then when the
door opens the plunger will be extended so I want the contacts to be
closed so I believe this is called a NC switch. Should I select
=9CMOM-OFF=9D or =9CON MOM=9Din the filter?
The Judco Manufacturing Inc. 40-4819-00 switch looks like it will work
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Judco%20PDFs/40-4819-00.pdf
How can one (me) determine how strong the spring is?
..
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Can Someone PLEASE Provide A
Recommendation For A Plunger Switch?!?!?
Sogetting back to the switchit needs to have the
following attributes:
-Plunger type switch that has a very light spring that forces the switch
plunger to the extended position.
-When the switch is pushed in the contacts need to be open and when the
switch is allowed to extend the contacts need to close so my indicator
light will illuminate.
-The threaded shaft of the switch should be about =C2=BD inch long.
-Threaded shaft is made of plastic
My goal is to install the switch from the outside so that the switch
body is on the outside of the box and only the plunger assembly is
inserted into the sidewall mounting hole just long enough so that the
switch will be pressed in when the flapper valve is closed. If the
threaded shaft is plastic then I can use epoxy to glue the switch
threads into the sidewall of the air box and therefore it would not need
a nut on the inside wall of the air box so there would be no worry about
the nut falling into the engine intake.
Here is a picture of a switch that could workI would not use
the nuts and I would also prefer that the body and the plunger were made
of plastic and I have no way of knowing how strong the spring is.
The switch you have illustrated is a Honeywell product used
extensively
in aviation for harsh environment limit switching . . . like landing
gear.
When disassembled, you find two basic switches inside a weathertight
housing. There is a spring in the threaded barrel that gives this
switch a VERY high operating force. Then, you will find that
this product is expensive . . . in fact, I don't think they are
catalog items. Examples I encountered at Raytheon/Beech were
custom built to our specs for stroke, over-travel, force,
and style of basic switch.
If you want to go with a 'hard' switch, check out the
range of options offered here:
http://tinyurl.com/y7lnmvpu
There are products adaptable to your task but you'll have
to figure out mounting and actuator configurations.
Charlie's suggestion for non-contact sensing is excellent
too. A button magnet or metalic target bonded to the door
and sensed by some form of proximity device. Some
examples:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3vzncr
The later options are essentially zero-actuation-force,
and usually very robust in crappy environments.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Multiplexer or new antenna |
Hello. =C2-I've added a new comm radio on my RV4. =C2-I currently have
a Comant CI-122 bent whip. =C2-Space is limited on the belly of the RV4.
=C2-Would it be OK to use a multiplexer and share the antenna or try to f
ind a spot for another antenna? =C2-What multiplexer would you recommend?
Thanks.
Jeff Bertsch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Multiplexer or new antenna |
At 07:13 AM 6/12/2017, you wrote:
>Hello. I've added a new comm radio on my RV4. I currently have a
>Comant CI-122 bent whip. Space is limited on the belly of the
>RV4. Would it be OK to use a multiplexer and share the antenna or
>try to find a spot for another antenna? What multiplexer would you recommend?
>
Having two or more appliances share a single antenna
is problematic . . . and as Heinlein noted, "There ain't
no such thing as a free lunch".
There are various ways that the energy being received
or transmitted by an antenna may be split into multiple
pathways . . . but the first effect is attenuation of
said energy(ies). The second consideration is ability
to isolate one pathway from another . . . a transmitter
dumping thousands of milliwatts into the feedline
is a severe performance risk (if not destructive) of
other appliances where a pathway is conducting microwatts
of energy.
There ARE power dividers for driving up to two VOR and
two glideslope receivers from a single VOR antenna . . .
but the performance of ALL receivers downstream of
the signal source is degraded . . . and, of course,
NO transmitters are expected to share this system.
The short answer to your question is no. Separate
antennas go to maintaining both PERFORMANCE and
REDUNDANCY of the two transceivers.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Multiplexer or new antenna |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Find a place for second antenna. If there isn't room on belly, consider
locations on top of fuselage, or.. I've had success locating a CI-122 on
an inspection plate on underside of a wing. I'm not aware of any
reasonable device that allow sharing a transmitting antenna with
adequate protection from frying the receiver on the other radio.
On 6/12/2017 5:13 AM, Jeff Bertsch wrote:
> Hello. I've added a new comm radio on my RV4. I currently have a
> Comant CI-122 bent whip. Space is limited on the belly of the RV4.
> Would it be OK to use a multiplexer and share the antenna or try to
> find a spot for another antenna? What multiplexer would you recommend?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jeff Bertsch
________________________________________________________________________________
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469999#469999
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Question about Z19RB and OVP/Beaker and size wire |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Hello all,
I'am new on the forum, and I need some help to restart my plane please. ;)
I started to change my electrical system on my plane. I had single battery, single
old car ignition "Delco" type.
I set now dual battery and two Leburg ignitions and an over-voltage protection
(due to electrical dependance) and I have some question to finish it.
My plane is an IBIS junqua RJ03 (wooden canard layout), looking to wire it with
the Z19/RB.
My main battery is 20ah (into the nose, so I will wire it with 2AWG to starter)
and the aux. small battery 7ah., 30 inch. behind the main bat. but also in the
forward part of the plane.
Bus are quite close to the aux. battery. (30 inch. above) so I take the Z19AB wiring
diagram.
My problems are :
I am not sure about the wires size and fuse/breaker to use, as Bob said it's a
diagram and suggestion. And reading and reading again the chapter about wires
size I keep not very confident to do my choice alone.
1) My cuve facet pumps (main and auxiliary, same model, have a consumption around
1,6amp/one apparently) are 20ft behind buses and switches.
Same things for my ignitions. (It seems to be 0,4amp/each) may I use 14AWG for
fuel pump and 16 awg for ignition ? (4 degrees Celsius only increase of temperature
I calculate, I can take smaller wire not ? But up to what size to be safe,
for my tezfel wire, )
2)I have the OVP kit Bandc.aero and I have to set it close to the alternator o
i can set it close to the switching panel ? (without changing the 5 amp breaker
du to length of the wire ?)
3)I don't know how to wire my bandc-aero OVP kit. they sent me this diagram and
did not succeeded to have another precision:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z17K.pdf
Problem is that I don't have a dynamo. I have a car alternator of 30A.
Z19Rb don't show the relay and warning light that I have.
Thanks in advance.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470004#470004
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Z19RB and OVP/Beaker and size |
wire
At 12:35 PM 6/12/2017, you wrote:
>
>Hello all,
>
>I'am new on the forum, and I need some help to restart my plane please. ;)
>
> I started to change my electrical system on my plane. I had single
> battery, single old car ignition "Delco" type.
>I set now dual battery and two Leburg ignitions and an over-voltage
>protection (due to electrical dependance) and I have some question
>to finish it.
>
>My plane is an IBIS junqua RJ03 (wooden canard layout), looking to
>wire it with the Z19/RB.
>
>My main battery is 20ah (into the nose, so I will wire it with 2AWG
>to starter) and the aux. small battery 7ah., 30 inch. behind the
>main bat. but also in the forward part of the plane.
>Bus are quite close to the aux. battery. (30 inch. above) so I take
>the Z19AB wiring diagram.
>
>My problems are :
>
>I am not sure about the wires size and fuse/breaker to use, as Bob
>said it's a diagram and suggestion. And reading and reading again
>the chapter about wires size I keep not very confident to do my choice alone.
>
>1) My cuve facet pumps (main and auxiliary, same model, have a
>consumption around 1,6amp/one apparently) are 20ft behind buses and switches.
20AWG wire is 10 milliohms per foot . . . 1.6A x 20
yields a voltage drop of 320 millivolts . . . FOR THE
SUPPLY run. I presume the pump(s) are grounded to the
same fat-wire that runs from main battery(-) to the
crankcase.
>
>
>Same things for my ignitions. (It seems to be 0,4amp/each) may I use
>14AWG for fuel pump and 16 awg for ignition ? (4 degrees Celsius
>only increase of temperature I calculate, I can take smaller wire
>not ? But up to what size to be safe, for my tezfel wire, )
20AWG here too would be quite sufficient.
>2)I have the OVP kit Bandc.aero and I have to set it close to the
>alternator o i can set it close to the switching panel ? (without
>changing the 5 amp breaker du to length of the wire ?)
Install up front close to breaker.
>3)I don't know how to wire my bandc-aero OVP kit. they sent me this
>diagram and did not succeeded to have another precision:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z17K.pdf
>
>Problem is that I don't have a dynamo. I have a car alternator of 30A.
>
>Z19Rb don't show the relay and warning light that I have.
Wire as shown in Z-19 . . . you don't need the relay.
BE SURE THAT opening the control wire to your alternator
actually opens the alternator's field supply. Unless
this is true, your alternator may not be compatible
with any form of external overvoltage management.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Multiplexer or new antenna |
Thanks Kelly.Follow up question... I can put a second comm antenna about 3
feet from the existing antenna, but that will place it about 1 foot from th
e transponder antenna.Would that be OK since the transponder is so much hig
her freq?
Jeff
On Monday, June 12, 2017 8:47 AM, Kelly McMullen
wrote:
om>
Find a place for second antenna. If there isn't room on belly, consider
locations on top of fuselage, or.. I've had success locating a CI-122 on
an inspection plate on underside of a wing. I'm not aware of any
reasonable device that allow sharing a transmitting antenna with
adequate protection from frying the receiver on the other radio.
On 6/12/2017 5:13 AM, Jeff Bertsch wrote:
> Hello.=C2- I've added a new comm radio on my RV4.=C2- I currently hav
e a
> Comant CI-122 bent whip.=C2- Space is limited on the belly of the RV4.
>=C2- Would it be OK to use a multiplexer and share the antenna or try to
> find a spot for another antenna?=C2- What multiplexer would you recomme
nd?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jeff Bertsch
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 wiring diagram |
| From: | "tnikkel" <tnikkel(at)netins.net> |
Current starting the wiring on the RV-8 I am building. Attached is the diagram
for the main power and charging system. I would like a second opinion to make
sure I have not made a mistake. Ignore the avionics bus that's planning for the
future if I ever add that. The wiring from the circuit breakers is all sized
properly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470036#470036
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n285ts_power_189.bmp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Multiplexer or new antenna |
At 11:25 PM 6/12/2017, you wrote:
>Thanks Kelly.
>Follow up question... I can put a second comm antenna about 3 feet
>from the existing antenna, but that will place it about 1 foot from
>the transponder antenna.
>Would that be OK since the transponder is so much higher freq?
>
>Jeff
If it is a problem, the difficulty will manifest in
misbehaviors by the comm radio. You may hear a burst
of 'buzz' every time the reply light comes on. Baring
that, proximity to the antenna should not be a problem.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Multiplexer or new antenna |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I would rather see you get the separation by putting a com antenna under
a wing. It may be okay, but what is backup plan if it doesn't work and
you have a hole to patch in the fuselage? It is much easier to make an
inspection plate mounting that can be discarded if you don't like the
results.
On 6/13/2017 5:09 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 11:25 PM 6/12/2017, you wrote:
>> Thanks Kelly.
>> Follow up question... I can put a second comm antenna about 3 feet
>> from the existing antenna, but that will place it about 1 foot from
>> the transponder antenna.
>> Would that be OK since the transponder is so much higher freq?
>>
>> Jeff
>
> If it is a problem, the difficulty will manifest in
> misbehaviors by the comm radio. You may hear a burst
> of 'buzz' every time the reply light comes on. Baring
> that, proximity to the antenna should not be a problem.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wiring diagram |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
It seems that some of the feeders are larger than necessary and could be smaller
by one or two wire sizes.
Can the main power bus feeder be smaller?
Can the E-Bus feeder be smaller?
The E-Bus bridge diode only needs one wire feeding it, not two.
If the E-Bus switch is inadvertently left on during engine start, the aux battery
will help crank the engine and could trip its circuit breaker. That problem
can be eliminated by connecting the output of the E-Bus relay to one of the
inputs of the bridge diode.
Having an engine start button on the control stick could be dangerous. Is it really
necessary?
An avionics switch is a single point of failure. Evidently it happened in Ron Simonton's RV. Read his post: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=1167360&postcount=7
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470046#470046
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor |
Hi All,
Sorry to keep bugging you all on this topic however this is a bit over
my
head and you are the smartest guys in the (cyber) room and I would
greatly
appreciate your comments/feedback/suggestions (again).
Attached is a PDF data sheet of a sensor I think will work for my
application. Could someone PLEASE look it over and tell me IF this
sensor
will work with my application?
I like this particular sensor because it is the right dimensions (length
and
width) for my application (I have VERY LIMITED space) and this sensor is
an
open collector to ground that I need for the Dynon Skyview EMS=85plus it
is
only 15 bucks!!!
The questions I have are:
-The data sheet states =93Open Collector (NPN) output can be used with
bipolar
or cmos logic circuits with suitable pull up resistor=94. I do not know
what
this means. I want to have one of my Dynon Skyview EMS pins watch for
ground on a wire. If the pin does not see ground then the display
annunciation will be dark however when the pin sees a connection to
ground
then the EFIS display will annunciate an =93ICE=94 warning (it has to
look for
ground because I need to share this EFIS input pin with the Dynon
AOA/Pitot
tube heater system monitor wire. This monitor wire is open when the
pitot
heater system is working correctly however when the pitot heater system
fails, the system connects this monitor wire to ground).
-This sensor has three wires: Brown =93VCC=94, Blue =93ground=94, and
Black
=93output=94. I assume the Brown wire needs to have a 5 to 12 VDC power
source
and the Black wire would go to my EFIS pin?
-I see where the =93pull up resistor=94 is supposed to be installed
however I do
not know what value resistor to use or if it is required.
-If the sensor relies on the magnetic attraction of the target magnet
and
the target magnet moves away because it is mounted on the door however
still
attached to the air box structure is a second magnet that is located
only =BD
inch next to the sensor, will that second magnet effect the operation of
the
switch?
-I want to use the Dynon Skyview PIN 18 as the power source for this
sensor.
PIN 18 is a 5 VDC power source that is output limited to 300 mA. I am
already using that pin to power a McLagan Enterprises CS-6AB current
sensor
so I do not want to overtax the 300 mA output rating of the pin. Does
anyone know what the current draw of the CS-6AB (it cannot be much)
A recap on the project=85I built an air filter box out of fiberglass and
it
has a reed type valve alternate air that is made from fiberglass and is
held
closed by a fiberglass spring and two magnets (one on the door and one
in
the fiberglass air box structure). The design is such that should the
big
air filter become iced up the engine vacuum will pull against the
door=92s
spring and the two magnets and open the door (one magnet will ride away
because it is mounted on the door while the second magnet will stay
attached
to the air box structure). I want to monitor the position of the door
with
the Dynon EFIS pin input.
..
THANKS AGAIN and I am VERY GRATEFUL for the help!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor |
Attached is a PDF data sheet of a sensor I think
will work for my application. Could someone
PLEASE look it over and tell me IF this sensor will work with my
application?
I'm sure it will . . .
I like this particular sensor because it is the
right dimensions (length and width) for my
application (I have VERY LIMITED space) and this
sensor is an open collector to ground that I need
for the Dynon Skyview EMS=85plus it is only 15 bucks!!!
. . . ain't 'lectronics wunderful?
The questions I have are:
-The data sheet states =93Open Collector (NPN)
output can be used with bipolar or cmos logic
circuits with suitable pull up resistor=94. I do
not know what this means. I want to have one of
my Dynon Skyview EMS pins watch for ground on a
wire. If the pin does not see ground then the
display annunciation will be dark however when
the pin sees a connection to ground then the EFIS
display will annunciate an =93ICE=94 warning (it has
to look for ground because I need to share this
EFIS input pin with the Dynon AOA/Pitot tube
heater system monitor wire. This monitor wire is
open when the pitot heater system is working
correctly however when the pitot heater system
fails, the system connects this monitor wire to ground).
If the Dynon will sense a dry switch,
then some form of pull-up resistor is
included within the Dynon's signal
conditioning.
This makes your open-collector sensor
ideal to task . . . no additional
electronics required.
-This sensor has three wires: Brown =93VCC=94, Blue
=93ground=94, and Black =93output=94. I assume the Brown
wire needs to have a 5 to 12 VDC power source and
the Black wire would go to my EFIS pin?
That would be my interpretation as well.
-I see where the =93pull up resistor=94 is supposed
to be installed however I do not know what value
resistor to use or if it is required.
Not reqd.
-If the sensor relies on the magnetic attraction
of the target magnet and the target magnet moves
away because it is mounted on the door however
still attached to the air box structure is a
second magnet that is located only =BD inch next to
the sensor, will that second magnet effect the operation of the switch?
Maybe . . . easy to check on the bench.
No way to increase that separation?
-I want to use the Dynon Skyview PIN 18 as the
power source for this sensor. PIN 18 is a 5 VDC
power source that is output limited to 300 mA. I
am already using that pin to power a McLagan
Enterprises CS-6AB current sensor so I do not
want to overtax the 300 mA output rating of the
pin. Does anyone know what the current draw of the CS-6AB (it cannot be
much)
. . . it seems unlikely that a 'sensor'
would need more than a handful of milliamps.
I think the risk is low.
A recap on the project=85I built an air filter box
out of fiberglass and it has a reed type valve
alternate air that is made from fiberglass and is
held closed by a fiberglass spring and two
magnets (one on the door and one in the
fiberglass air box structure). The design is
such that should the big air filter become iced
up the engine vacuum will pull against the door=92s
spring and the two magnets and open the door (one
magnet will ride away because it is mounted on
the door while the second magnet will stay
attached to the air box structure). I want to
monitor the position of the door with the Dynon EFIS pin input.
I think you're on the right track. Some
fiddling with the proposed magnets on the
bench should assuage concerns for untoward
interactions.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor |
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 2:33 PM, William Hunter
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>
> Sorry to keep bugging you all on this topic however this is a bit over my
> head and you are the smartest guys in the (cyber) room and I would greatl
y
> appreciate your comments/feedback/suggestions (again).
>
>
> Attached is a PDF data sheet of a sensor I think will work for my
> application. Could someone PLEASE look it over and tell me IF this senso
r
> will work with my application?
>
>
> I like this particular sensor because it is the right dimensions (length
> and width) for my application (I have VERY LIMITED space) and this sensor
> is an open collector to ground that I need for the Dynon Skyview EMS
plus
> it is only 15 bucks!!!
>
>
> The questions I have are:
>
>
> -The data sheet states =9COpen Collector (NPN) output can be used w
ith
> bipolar or cmos logic circuits with suitable pull up resistor=9D.
I do not
> know what this means. I want to have one of my Dynon Skyview EMS pins
> watch for ground on a wire. If the pin does not see ground then the
> display annunciation will be dark however when the pin sees a connection
to
> ground then the EFIS display will annunciate an =9CICE=9D war
ning (it has to
> look for ground because I need to share this EFIS input pin with the Dyno
n
> AOA/Pitot tube heater system monitor wire. This monitor wire is open whe
n
> the pitot heater system is working correctly however when the pitot heate
r
> system fails, the system connects this monitor wire to ground).
>
>
> -This sensor has three wires: Brown =9CVCC=9D, Blue =9C
ground=9D, and Black
> =9Coutput=9D. I assume the Brown wire needs to have a 5 to 1
2 VDC power source
> and the Black wire would go to my EFIS pin?
>
>
> -I see where the =9Cpull up resistor=9D is supposed to be ins
talled however I
> do not know what value resistor to use or if it is required.
>
>
> -If the sensor relies on the magnetic attraction of the target magnet and
> the target magnet moves away because it is mounted on the door however
> still attached to the air box structure is a second magnet that is locate
d
> only =C2=BD inch next to the sensor, will that second magnet effect the
> operation of the switch?
>
>
> -I want to use the Dynon Skyview PIN 18 as the power source for this
> sensor. PIN 18 is a 5 VDC power source that is output limited to 300 mA.
> I am already using that pin to power a McLagan Enterprises CS-6AB current
> sensor so I do not want to overtax the 300 mA output rating of the pin.
> Does anyone know what the current draw of the CS-6AB (it cannot be much)
>
>
> A recap on the projectI built an air filter box out of fiberglas
s and it
> has a reed type valve alternate air that is made from fiberglass and is
> held closed by a fiberglass spring and two magnets (one on the door and o
ne
> in the fiberglass air box structure). The design is such that should the
> big air filter become iced up the engine vacuum will pull against the
> door=99s spring and the two magnets and open the door (one magnet w
ill ride
> away because it is mounted on the door while the second magnet will stay
> attached to the air box structure). I want to monitor the position of th
e
> door with the Dynon EFIS pin input.
>
> ..
>
>
> THANKS AGAIN and I am VERY GRATEFUL for the help!!!
>
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
Bill,
The pullup resistor is shown on that data sheet, in the schematic, which
also shows all the wire connections to make it work. It should do what you
want, but it's not that much smaller than many of the devices I sent
earlier. It would save you (and us) a lot of time if you spell out all of
your requirements, including size (dimensions) in your initial question.
If you really need small, try this:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEDER-electronic-Standex/KSK-1C90U-1015
/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvFdY0L2HfHxsLmHWXxOk2BtXfBXWgtRX0%3d
or use the google to search for 'form C reed switch'. No electronics, just
a single pole, double throw magnetically activated switch (electrically, it
looks just like a SPDT toggle switch). The one I linked is 'bare' and could
be easily fit into a 3/8" diameter by 1" long space.
Couple more thoughts. Do you really need two magnets? Have you checked
whether the engine can actually overcome the magnets, if the inlet is
blocked? (Many newer magnets are quite powerful.) If you use a long narrow
magnet & just a piece of steel on the stationary side, you could probably
use the same magnet to hold the door shut and activate the reed switch
(mounted away from the steel, toward the other pole of the magnet).
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The SkyView EMS has at least 9 general purpose inputs. If all of them are not
already being used, then I suggest that the magnetic sensor be connected to its
own discrete EMS input instead of sharing an input with the pitot heat sensor.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470075#470075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor |
Thanks Bob and Charlie!!!
> Do you really need two magnets? Have you checked whether the engine can
actually overcome the magnets, if the inlet is blocked? (Many newer magnets
are quite powerful.) If you use a long narrow magnet & just a piece of
steel on the stationary side, you could probably use the same magnet to
hold the door shut and activate the reed switch (mounted away from the
steel, toward the other pole of the magnet).
This design is not exactly in BETA test at this point... perhaps more like
Charlie minus testing and the plan has changed a bit (I'm sure that I am
the only one in Aviation that has had design creep and concept validation
issues).
I really do not know how strong the magnets need to be... I know...the size
of the flapper door... the size of the main filter... the engine is 540
CID...I know that I want the door to stay closed until the air filter gets
blocked just a smidgen and then I want the flapper to pop fully open... the
indicator light will help decide how large the magnets need to be.
So... I just replaced my worn out electric sonic toothbrush and whilst
conducting the R&R procedure the two brush heads whacked together on the
counter top and got stuck together on the magnet ends and just like magic I
had a "hey what if..." moment.
These magnets are like really... REALLY small and if I place them on one
corner of the door (one magnet on the door and one on the air box
structure) then there will be about 2.5 inches of distance to the adjacent
corner where the magic switch can be installed... then perhaps there will
be enough distance to reduce any magnetic interference. I will buy this
sensor and conduct some fiddling around and report back.
Also... the original plan was to have the Dynon heater sensor on one EMS
sensor pin and the flapper door gizmo on a different pin until I ran out of
pins. Then you all suggested this fancy proximity sensor and I figured that
I could combine both ice related contraptions on a single pin and since the
Dynon sensor is a sink to ground I need a switch gizmo that will also sink
to ground...
Anyhoo.. THANKS AGAIN. It will be a couple of weeks before I can report
back.
Bill
On Jun 13, 2017 6:31 PM, "Charlie England" wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 2:33 PM, William Hunter <
> billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry to keep bugging you all on this topic however this is a bit over m
y
>> head and you are the smartest guys in the (cyber) room and I would great
ly
>> appreciate your comments/feedback/suggestions (again).
>>
>>
>>
>> Attached is a PDF data sheet of a sensor I think will work for my
>> application. Could someone PLEASE look it over and tell me IF this sens
or
>> will work with my application?
>>
>>
>>
>> I like this particular sensor because it is the right dimensions (length
>> and width) for my application (I have VERY LIMITED space) and this senso
r
>> is an open collector to ground that I need for the Dynon Skyview EMS
plus
>> it is only 15 bucks!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The questions I have are:
>>
>>
>>
>> -The data sheet states =9COpen Collector (NPN) output can be used
with
>> bipolar or cmos logic circuits with suitable pull up resistor=9D.
I do not
>> know what this means. I want to have one of my Dynon Skyview EMS pins
>> watch for ground on a wire. If the pin does not see ground then the
>> display annunciation will be dark however when the pin sees a connection
to
>> ground then the EFIS display will annunciate an =9CICE=9D wa
rning (it has to
>> look for ground because I need to share this EFIS input pin with the Dyn
on
>> AOA/Pitot tube heater system monitor wire. This monitor wire is open wh
en
>> the pitot heater system is working correctly however when the pitot heat
er
>> system fails, the system connects this monitor wire to ground).
>>
>>
>>
>> -This sensor has three wires: Brown =9CVCC=9D, Blue
=9Cground=9D, and Black
>> =9Coutput=9D. I assume the Brown wire needs to have a 5 to
12 VDC power source
>> and the Black wire would go to my EFIS pin?
>>
>>
>>
>> -I see where the =9Cpull up resistor=9D is supposed to be in
stalled however I
>> do not know what value resistor to use or if it is required.
>>
>>
>>
>> -If the sensor relies on the magnetic attraction of the target magnet an
d
>> the target magnet moves away because it is mounted on the door however
>> still attached to the air box structure is a second magnet that is locat
ed
>> only =C2=BD inch next to the sensor, will that second magnet effect the
>> operation of the switch?
>>
>>
>>
>> -I want to use the Dynon Skyview PIN 18 as the power source for this
>> sensor. PIN 18 is a 5 VDC power source that is output limited to 300 mA
.
>> I am already using that pin to power a McLagan Enterprises CS-6AB curren
t
>> sensor so I do not want to overtax the 300 mA output rating of the pin.
>> Does anyone know what the current draw of the CS-6AB (it cannot be much)
>>
>>
>>
>> A recap on the projectI built an air filter box out of fibergla
ss and it
>> has a reed type valve alternate air that is made from fiberglass and is
>> held closed by a fiberglass spring and two magnets (one on the door and
one
>> in the fiberglass air box structure). The design is such that should th
e
>> big air filter become iced up the engine vacuum will pull against the
>> door=99s spring and the two magnets and open the door (one magnet
will ride
>> away because it is mounted on the door while the second magnet will stay
>> attached to the air box structure). I want to monitor the position of t
he
>> door with the Dynon EFIS pin input.
>>
>> ..
>>
>>
>>
>> THANKS AGAIN and I am VERY GRATEFUL for the help!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Hunter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Bill,
>
> The pullup resistor is shown on that data sheet, in the schematic, which
> also shows all the wire connections to make it work. It should do what yo
u
> want, but it's not that much smaller than many of the devices I sent
> earlier. It would save you (and us) a lot of time if you spell out all of
> your requirements, including size (dimensions) in your initial question.
>
> If you really need small, try this:
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEDER-electronic-Standex/KSK-1C90U-
> 1015/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvFdY0L2HfHxsLmHWXxOk2BtXfBXWgtRX0%3d
>
> or use the google to search for 'form C reed switch'. No electronics, jus
t
> a single pole, double throw magnetically activated switch (electrically,
it
> looks just like a SPDT toggle switch). The one I linked is 'bare' and cou
ld
> be easily fit into a 3/8" diameter by 1" long space.
>
> Couple more thoughts. Do you really need two magnets? Have you checked
> whether the engine can actually overcome the magnets, if the inlet is
> blocked? (Many newer magnets are quite powerful.) If you use a long narro
w
> magnet & just a piece of steel on the stationary side, you could probably
> use the same magnet to hold the door shut and activate the reed switch
> (mounted away from the steel, toward the other pole of the magnet).
>
> Charlie
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor |
>d
>
>These magnets are like really... REALLY small and if I place them on
>one corner of the door (one magnet on the door and one on the air
>box structure) then there will be about 2.5 inches of distance to
>the adjacent corner where the magic switch can be installed... then
>perhaps there will be enough distance to reduce any magnetic
>interference. I will buy this sensor and conduct some fiddling
>around and report back.
Ohhhh . . I thought the magnets were going to be CLOSE.
2.5" is like 'across the street'.
If they were, say 0.5" apart, there MIGHT be valid
interaction concerns to be resolved but 2.5" is plenty.
I don't recall now which 60's Cessna used a similar
alternate air door but the magnet holding it closed
was a rather pedestrian cabinet door latch. Gravity
would re-close the door. There were no annunciators
on that system. The door magnet doesn't want/need
to be very stout . . . pressure drop through a clean
filter is, by design, as low as practical . . . measured
in inches of water. You can calculate the force
offered by such differentials and use it to test the
release pressure of the finished assembly.
Just remember that the total force is spread out
over the door area and averages 1/2 the total
applied to center of the door (class 2 lever).
There is a boat load of magnet choices on eBay
including disks with countersunk holes for screw
mounting. http://tinyurl.com/ycoxy94d
A spring-force gage can be crafted to check
the door open calibration.
I think I'd encase the mounted magnet in a layer
of glass . . . while the risk is low, these things
do break and the particles are akin to crushed
carbide . . . not something friendly to engines.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wiring diagram |
| From: | "tnikkel" <tnikkel(at)netins.net> |
Thanks for your comment i appreciate the feed back.
Some of the feeders are bigger than they need to be but that's the wires I have.
I see the downsides of having the start switch on the yoke but i do want it
there. I have an enable switch which disarms the switch on the yoke. The enable
switch also disconnects the e-bus during start.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470104#470104
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question about Z19RB and OVP/Beaker and size wire |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Thank you Bob for your response.
How could I check if my alternator is compatible with en external OVP before wiring
it ? (it is not wired anymore)
It was wired like the picture attached in this message. (drawn by constructeur)
Thank you.
Mickal
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470107#470107
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_dcran_2017_06_14__171455_169.png
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_dcran_2017_06_14__171448_651.png
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_dcran_2017_06_14__170900_296.png
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_dcran_2017_06_14__165206_149.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wiring diagram |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
OK, I overlooked the switch that isolates the E-Bus during engine start. Your
wiring diagram looks OK to me.
> The enable switch also disconnects the e-bus during start.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470114#470114
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | MP100701 Open Collector To Ground Position Sensor |
> I thought the magnets were going to be CLOSE.
2.5" is like 'across the street'.
The flapper door is 4 inches long and 2.5 inches wide. Plan A (what is
currently built) has a =BD inch diameter magnet mounted in the middle of
the
2.5 inch door frame=85so not like across the street but in the same
housing
complex. These toothbrush magnets are very strong so perhaps I could
install them on one corner and then the switch on the other corner.
> I don't recall now which 60's Cessna used a similar
alternate air door but the magnet holding it closed
was a rather pedestrian cabinet door latch. Gravity
would re-close the door.
They stole my idea=85HOW RUDE!!!
>There were no annunciators on that system.
Sorta takes the fun out of it=85Well I suppose their engineering budget
was a
bit more than mine so they would not really need a monitoring circuit.
I
could teach my cute little EFIS girl to say =93MONITOR=94 when the door
opens
but I guess that might be too 2017=85a =93light=94 will do.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MP100701 Open Collector To Ground
Position
Sensor
d
These magnets are like really... REALLY small and if I place them on one
corner of the door (one magnet on the door and one on the air box
structure)
then there will be about 2.5 inches of distance to the adjacent corner
where
the magic switch can be installed... then perhaps there will be enough
distance to reduce any magnetic interference. I will buy this sensor and
conduct some fiddling around and report back.
Ohhhh . . I thought the magnets were going to be CLOSE.
2.5" is like 'across the street'.
If they were, say 0.5" apart, there MIGHT be valid
interaction concerns to be resolved but 2.5" is plenty.
I don't recall now which 60's Cessna used a similar
alternate air door but the magnet holding it closed
was a rather pedestrian cabinet door latch. Gravity
would re-close the door. There were no annunciators
on that system. The door magnet doesn't want/need
to be very stout . . . pressure drop through a clean
filter is, by design, as low as practical . . . measured
in inches of water. You can calculate the force
offered by such differentials and use it to test the
release pressure of the finished assembly.
Just remember that the total force is spread out
over the door area and averages 1/2 the total
applied to center of the door (class 2 lever).
There is a boat load of magnet choices on eBay
including disks with countersunk holes for screw
mounting. http://tinyurl.com/ycoxy94d
A spring-force gage can be crafted to check
the door open calibration.
I think I'd encase the mounted magnet in a layer
of glass . . . while the risk is low, these things
do break and the particles are akin to crushed
carbide . . . not something friendly to engines.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dilson Frota <dilsonfrota(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wiring diagram |
Hi Joe
Have you considerate to use EXP BUS, instead of discrete circuit breakers?
I use them, they are very reliable.
Advantages are it provide circuitry for the second battery, not so
expensive and much less wiring.
I'm not a representative :-) =F0=9F=98=84
I'm sorry if I throw you in another direction, but I think it's worth at
least to give a thought.
Regards
Dilson
Em 14 de jun de 2017 13:37, "user9253" escreveu:
>
> OK, I overlooked the switch that isolates the E-Bus during engine start.
> Your wiring diagram looks OK to me.
>
> > The enable switch also disconnects the e-bus during start.
>
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470114#470114
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Z19RB and OVP/Beaker and size |
wire
At 10:17 AM 6/14/2017, you wrote:
>
>Thank you Bob for your response.
>
>How could I check if my alternator is compatible
>with en external OVP before wiring it ? (it is not wired anymore)
>
>It was wired like the picture attached in this
>message. (drawn by constructeur)
>
>Thank you.
>
>Micka=C3=ABl
The last drawing is the 'magic' data. It shows that
your alternator is externally regulated -AND- that
the alternator control switch does indeed carry field
excitation current. Here's an exemplar application of
the crowbar ov module to your project.
Emacs!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Hello,
most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even one used
for the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused).
I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM right
now, that one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a 10A fuse
(8W COM).
Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with the 2x
GND/PWR on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com I found
the 10A a bit high).
Thanks for your advice
Cheers Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
Hi Werner
You may use the same cabling, connected to only one 10A fuse.
After installation, just measure the current when transmitting, and then you could
use a 7.5A fuse instead of the 10A.
Cheers
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 16/06/2017, s 22:20, Werner Schneider escreveu:
>
> Hello,
>
> most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even one used for
the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused).
>
> I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM right now, that
one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a 10A fuse (8W COM).
>
> Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with the 2x GND/PWR
on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com I found the 10A a bit high).
>
> Thanks for your advice
>
> Cheers Werner
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I have my SL-30 (14V) on 5 amp breaker for Com and 3 amp for Nav. Actual
use, from what I gleaned from the manual is about 3 amp on transmit for
the Com side.
On 6/16/2017 2:20 PM, Werner Schneider wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even one used
> for the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused).
>
> I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM right
> now, that one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a 10A fuse
> (8W COM).
>
> Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with the 2x
> GND/PWR on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com I found
> the 10A a bit high).
>
> Thanks for your advice
>
> Cheers Werner
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The ampacity of a single USB pin is about 5 amps. Many avionics use dual USB pins
for power to divide the current so that USB pins do not get warm.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470188#470188
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question about Z19RB and OVP/Beaker and size wire |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Many thanks !
Mickal
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470189#470189
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
| Subject: | G4 stick grip wiring |
Hi all,
A group of buddies asked me to devise the wiring of a pair of Ray Allen
G 405 stick grips, but they can't remember whether they came with any
documentation, and no wiring information is available on Ray Allen's
website.
Of course my buddies are in a hurry and would like to have schematics
completed over the weekend...
I sent an email to Ray Allen but they'll probably won't answer before
Monday or Tuesday.
Does any of you gentlemen and ladies happen to have any information as
to the color code etc. of those particular stick grips ?
Thanks in advance for your inputs,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: G4 stick grip wiring |
Gilles,
I have attached a copy of what I received with my G407 grips, which
also includes the G405.
Ed Godfrey
On 6/17/2017 8:28 AM, GTH wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> A group of buddies asked me to devise the wiring of a pair of Ray
> Allen G 405 stick grips, but they can't remember whether they came
> with any documentation, and no wiring information is available on Ray
> Allen's website.
>
> Of course my buddies are in a hurry and would like to have schematics
> completed over the weekend...
>
> I sent an email to Ray Allen but they'll probably won't answer before
> Monday or Tuesday.
>
> Does any of you gentlemen and ladies happen to have any information as
> to the color code etc. of those particular stick grips ?
>
> Thanks in advance for your inputs,
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: G4 stick grip wiring |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 17/06/2017 15:44, Ed Godfrey a crit :
/
> /Gilles,
> I have attached a copy of what I received with my G407 grips,
> which also includes the G405. /
Ed,
This is exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks a lot !
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: G4 stick grip wiring |
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Hi Gilles,
aircraftspruce most of the time has documentation to what they sell:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/G207instruct.pdf
I know not before the weekend bust I was abstinent on emails :)
Cheers Werner
On 17.06.2017 15:28, GTH wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> A group of buddies asked me to devise the wiring of a pair of Ray Allen
> G 405 stick grips, but they can't remember whether they came with any
> documentation, and no wiring information is available on Ray Allen's
> website.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: G4 stick grip wiring |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 19/06/2017 09:56, Werner Schneider a crit :
/
> /
> Hi Gilles,
> aircraftspruce most of the time has documentation to what they sell:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/G207instruct.pdf
> /
Hi Werner,
Thanks for responding.
Unfortunately the Series 4 stick grip document remains unpublished to date.
Thanks to the great guys on the 'List, I got the documentation within
hours, and was able to deliver the schematics on time !
Thank you everyone !
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Onex antenna location |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The gear legs will affect the radio transmissions and reception. Exactly how much
can only be determined by testing. You can install the antenna then go fly
and try it out. You might be satisfied with it. Or maybe not. An option is
to mount the com antenna on top of the airplane. Theoretically the airplane
will block the signal from reaching the ground. But in practice, top mounted
antennas work fine. The same might be true for an antenna mounted between the
gear legs.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470234#470234
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
Always bear in mind that the fuses are sized to protect the wire and what is
connected at the other end (in this case your radio) has no influence on the
fuse size used.
As long as the wires are adequate for the 10 Amps then 10 Amp fuses are fine and
certainly if the existing wiring will supply the new device's requirements then
they may be reused/re-purposed.
Bob McC
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
> Date: June 16, 2017 at 5:20 PM
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even one used
> for the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused).
>
> I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM right
> now, that one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a 10A fuse
> (8W COM).
>
> Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with the 2x
> GND/PWR on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com I found
> the 10A a bit high).
>
> Thanks for your advice
>
> Cheers Werner
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Chapman <tomrv4(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Onex antenna location |
I have a bent whip on my RV4 between the gear legs just aft of the firewall.
I haven't had any problem communicating once airborne, but on the ground at
certain airports I have a heck of a time getting hold of the tower.
I'm building a full IFR RV-7A, and plan to put one antennae on the bottom of
the plane, and the secondary radio antennae on the top in order to switch to
whichever radio works best per the situation...
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:10 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Onex antenna location
The gear legs will affect the radio transmissions and reception. Exactly
how much can only be determined by testing. You can install the antenna
then go fly and try it out. You might be satisfied with it. Or maybe not.
An option is to mount the com antenna on top of the airplane. Theoretically
the airplane will block the signal from reaching the ground. But in
practice, top mounted antennas work fine. The same might be true for an
antenna mounted between the gear legs.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470234#470234
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Onex antenna location |
I had the same problem on my RV-10. I moved one antenna to the top, problem
solved.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Chapman
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Onex antenna location
I have a bent whip on my RV4 between the gear legs just aft of the firewall.
I haven't had any problem communicating once airborne, but on the ground at
certain airports I have a heck of a time getting hold of the tower.
I'm building a full IFR RV-7A, and plan to put one antennae on the bottom of
the plane, and the secondary radio antennae on the top in order to switch to
whichever radio works best per the situation...
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:10 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Onex antenna location
The gear legs will affect the radio transmissions and reception. Exactly
how much can only be determined by testing. You can install the antenna
then go fly and try it out. You might be satisfied with it. Or maybe not.
An option is to mount the com antenna on top of the airplane. Theoretically
the airplane will block the signal from reaching the ground. But in
practice, top mounted antennas work fine. The same might be true for an
antenna mounted between the gear legs.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470234#470234
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
Hi Bob
You are right that the fuse is there to protect the wire, but the size
(in A) of the fuse is a function of the current which is drawn by what
is connected at the other end of the wire, isn=99t it?
Otherwise you could put a 1A fuse to protect a #24 wire with a pitot
heater at the end, and you would never see that heater working when you
wanted it.
With due respect
Carlos
De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Robert
McCallum
Enviada: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:35 PM
Para: aeroelectric-list
Assunto: Re: AeroElectric-List: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses?
Always bear in mind that the fuses are sized to protect the wire and
what is connected at the other end (in this case your radio) has no
influence on the fuse size used.
As long as the wires are adequate for the 10 Amps then 10 Amp fuses are
fine and certainly if the existing wiring will supply the new device's
requirements then they may be reused/re-purposed.
Bob McC
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net <mailto:glastar(at)gmx.net> >
Date: June 16, 2017 at 5:20 PM
>
Hello,
most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even one used
for the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused).
I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM right
now, that one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a 10A fuse
(8W COM).
Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with the 2x
GND/PWR on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com I found
the 10A a bit high).
Thanks for your advice
Cheers
W-========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Not Bob,
However, the wire has to be sized at a minimum to carry the anticipated
load, so you would not have the situation you describe.
On the other hand, it is common that relatively small loads, say 1 amp
are carried on 18-22 gauge wire, and would be fused for what the wire
can carry, usually more than what the load is. Another common occurrence
is that wires for lighting on a plane were sized for an incandescent
load, but the lamps have all been replaced with LEDs that draw 1/5th the
amount. The circuit breakers would not change, because the wiring did
not change.
On 6/19/2017 2:38 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> Hi Bob
>
> You are right that the fuse is there to protect the wire, but the size
> (in A) of the fuse is a function of the current which is drawn by what
> is connected at the other end of the wire, isnt it?
>
> Otherwise you could put a 1A fuse to protect a #24 wire with a pitot
> heater at the end, and you would never see that heater working when you
> wanted it.
>
> With due respect
>
> Carlos
>
> *De:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *Em nome de
> *Robert McCallum
> *Enviada:* Monday, June 19, 2017 6:35 PM
> *Para:* aeroelectric-list
> *Assunto:* Re: AeroElectric-List: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses?
>
> Always bear in mind that the fuses are sized to protect the wire and
> what is connected at the other end (in this case your radio) has no
> influence on the fuse size used.
>
> As long as the wires are adequate for the 10 Amps then 10 Amp fuses are
> fine and certainly if the existing wiring will supply the new device's
> requirements then they may be reused/re-purposed.
>
> Bob McC
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net <mailto:glastar(at)gmx.net>>
> Date: June 16, 2017 at 5:20 PM
>
>
> >
>
> Hello,
>
> most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even one
> used
> for the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused).
>
> I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM right
> now, that one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a 10A
> fuse
> (8W COM).
>
> Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with the 2x
> GND/PWR on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com I found
> the 10A a bit high).
>
> Thanks for your advice
>
> Cheers W-=================================
>
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Ok after reading again through the AeroElectric Connection about wires
and fuses I come to following conclusion.
According the Icom Manual we use 2x AWG20, together they are fine for a
10A fuse, as I remain with my original SL-30 setup (2 wires with a fuse
each) I could go for 7.5A each, considering the power of the unit I
might stay with 2x 5 A out of convienence but will first check how much
power the Icom draws when transmitting, I bet it will be below 5 :). If
I would go for a dual cable crimped into a single fuse, I would rather
prefer a 7.5A fuse, so when one wire breaks it will still be adequate,
however taking into account the relative short wire a 10A might be fine.
Thanks for your ideas.
Cheers Werner
On 19.06.2017 19:35, Robert McCallum wrote:
>
> Always bear in mind that the fuses are sized to protect the wire and
> what is connected at the other end (in this case your radio) has no
> influence on the fuse size used.
>
> As long as the wires are adequate for the 10 Amps then 10 Amp fuses
> are fine and certainly if the existing wiring will supply the new
> device's requirements then they may be reused/re-purposed.
>
> Bob McC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Some avionics use two pins for positive power and two pins for negative power.
The reason for using two pins is not for redundancy. The reason is that if only
one D-Sub pin carried all of the current, it would be overloaded. The problem
of using two fuses is that if one fuse blows, then all of the current will
flow through one D-Sub pin and overload it.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470261#470261
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
Correct. However the assumption must be made that the wire installed is ade
quate
for the intended task. My point was that if you've installed a 14ga wire yo
u
protect it with the appropriate fuse for that wire, and not necessarily dow
nsize
the fuse because the device you're powering draws only 1 amp. Once adequacy
of
both wire and fuse is established then the fuse size chosen becomes a funct
ion
of the wire and not the connected load.
Respectfully
Bob McC
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
> Date: June 19, 2017 at 5:38 PM
>
>
> Hi Bob
>
>
>
> You are right that the fuse is there to protect the wire, but the siz
e (in
> A) of the fuse is a function of the current which is drawn by what is
> connected at the other end of the wire, isn=99t it?
>
>
>
> Otherwise you could put a 1A fuse to protect a #24 wire with a pitot
> heater at the end, and you would never see that heater working when you w
anted
> it.
>
>
>
> With due respect
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Robert
> McCallum
> Enviada: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:35 PM
> Para: aeroelectric-list
> Assunto: Re: AeroElectric-List: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses?
>
>
>
> Always bear in mind that the fuses are sized to protect the wire and
what
> is connected at the other end (in this case your radio) has no influence
on
> the fuse size used.
>
> As long as the wires are adequate for the 10 Amps then 10 Amp fuses a
re
> fine and certainly if the existing wiring will supply the new device's
> requirements then they may be reused/re-purposed.
>
> Bob McC
>
> > >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------
> > From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net <mailto:glastar(at)gmx.net
> >
> > Date: June 16, 2017 at 5:20 PM
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even
one
> > used
> > for the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused)
.
> >
> > I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM
right
> > now, that one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a
10A
> > fuse
> > (8W COM).
> >
> > Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with t
he 2x
> > GND/PWR on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com
I
> > found
> > the 10A a bit high).
> >
> > Thanks for your advice
> >
> > Cheers W-==================
===============
> >
> >
> > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Thanks Joe for that warning, that is why I fuse for 5A only I still
wonder the Icom uses a 10 A fuse for a 8W com and the SL30 was using a
5A for a 12 W COM.
I believe the d-subs are rated 5A and if you break one cable it would be
the same issue at the pin side.
At the end I will see what it draws (the KX-125 I had at the begin on
Xmit was drawing 3.8A) and leave another 30% as margin. it is just
convenient to leave it as it is.
Cheers Werner
On 20.06.2017 14:49, user9253 wrote:
>
> Some avionics use two pins for positive power and two pins for negative power.
The reason for using two pins is not for redundancy. The reason is that if
only one D-Sub pin carried all of the current, it would be overloaded. The problem
of using two fuses is that if one fuse blows, then all of the current will
flow through one D-Sub pin and overload it.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Hello,
I want to wire my new grip tosten with my basic 12v electrical actuating as trim
(up/down) pulling a spring.
I bought a double car relay to do some test to find the good wiring diagram but
before that I prefer asking in this forum how can I wire it if anybody know the
response ?
Before I was a double pole switch, wire by the previous owner.
I had a problem with the previous wiring, when i actuated my trim, my compas begin
to turn completely. The motor/switch were not close to the compas.
I have tested to set the motor very close to the compas to do a test. Without all
the wire juste motor and a small battery. And in this case it don't turn !
I don't understand why.
I find this documentation to do my wire.
Thank you in advance.
Mickal
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470273#470273
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_dcran_2017_06_20__170003_154.png
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_dcran_2017_06_20__165117_106.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
It would be dumb to put a 20A breaker on a 2A load, regardless of what wire y
ou used.
On Jun 20, 2017, at 09:23, Robert McCallum w
rote:
Correct. However the assumption must be made that the wire installed is adeq
uate for the intended task. My point was that if you've installed a 14ga wir
e you protect it with the appropriate fuse for that wire, and not necessaril
y downsize the fuse because the device you're powering draws only 1 amp. Onc
e adequacy of both wire and fuse is established then the fuse size chosen be
comes a function of the wire and not the connected load.
Respectfully
Bob McC
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
> Date: June 19, 2017 at 5:38 PM
>
> Hi Bob
>
>
>
> You are right that the fuse is there to protect the wire, but the size (in
A) of the fuse is a function of the current which is drawn by what is conne
cted at the other end of the wire, isn=99t it?
>
>
>
> Otherwise you could put a 1A fuse to protect a #24 wire with a pitot heate
r at the end, and you would never see that heater working when you wanted it
.
>
>
>
> With due respect
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectri
c-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Robert McCallum
> Enviada: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:35 PM
> Para: aeroelectric-list
> Assunto: Re: AeroElectric-List: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses?
>
>
>
> Always bear in mind that the fuses are sized to protect the wire and what i
s connected at the other end (in this case your radio) has no influence on t
he fuse size used.
>
> As long as the wires are adequate for the 10 Amps then 10 Amp fuses are fi
ne and certainly if the existing wiring will supply the new device's require
ments then they may be reused/re-purposed.
>
> Bob McC
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
> Date: June 16, 2017 at 5:20 PM
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even one used
> for the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused).
>
> I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM right
> now, that one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a 10A fuse
> (8W COM).
>
> Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with the 2x
> GND/PWR on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com I found
> the 10A a bit high).
>
> Thanks for your advice
>
> Cheers W-======================
===========
>
>
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Unless, of course, you have a limited number of fuse locations, and
therefore, multiple non-critical 2A loads on one circuit that has wiring
sized to accept a 20A fuse.
The fuse protects the wire. (There's a period at the end of that
sentence...) :-)
On 6/20/2017 11:13 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
> It would be dumb to put a 20A breaker on a 2A load, regardless of what
> wire you used.
>
> On Jun 20, 2017, at 09:23, Robert McCallum
> >
> wrote:
>
> Correct. However the assumption must be made that the wire installed
> is adequate for the intended task. My point was that if you've
> installed a 14ga wire you protect it with the appropriate fuse for
> that wire, and not necessarily downsize the fuse because the device
> you're powering draws only 1 amp. Once adequacy of both wire and fuse
> is established then the fuse size chosen becomes a function of the
> wire and not the connected load.
>
> Respectfully
>
> Bob McC
>
>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
>> >
>> Date: June 19, 2017 at 5:38 PM
>>
>> Hi Bob
>>
>> You are right that the fuse is there to protect the wire, but the
>> size (in A) of the fuse is a function of the current which is drawn
>> by what is connected at the other end of the wire, isnt it?
>>
>> Otherwise you could put a 1A fuse to protect a #24 wire with a pitot
>> heater at the end, and you would never see that heater working when
>> you wanted it.
>>
>> With due respect
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> *De:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *Em nome de
>> *Robert McCallum
>> *Enviada:* Monday, June 19, 2017 6:35 PM
>> *Para:* aeroelectric-list > >
>> *Assunto:* Re: AeroElectric-List: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses?
>>
>> Always bear in mind that the fuses are sized to protect the wire and
>> what is connected at the other end (in this case your radio) has no
>> influence on the fuse size used.
>>
>> As long as the wires are adequate for the 10 Amps then 10 Amp fuses
>> are fine and certainly if the existing wiring will supply the new
>> device's requirements then they may be reused/re-purposed.
>>
>> Bob McC
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net <mailto:glastar(at)gmx.net>>
>> Date: June 16, 2017 at 5:20 PM
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even
>> one used
>> for the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused).
>>
>> I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM right
>> now, that one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a
>> 10A fuse
>> (8W COM).
>>
>> Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with the 2x
>> GND/PWR on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com I
>> found
>> the 10A a bit high).
>>
>> Thanks for your advice
>>
>> Cheers W-=================================
>>
>> >
>>
>
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses? |
It's not an absolute requirement that, for the fuse to do its job and protec
t the wire, it has exactly to match the listed maximum current capacity of t
he wire. A fuse can protect the wire just as well (and some who live on the e
dge might say even better) if the fuse is chosen to be appropriate to the lo
ad. However you want to punctuate it.
On Jun 20, 2017, at 16:15, Charlie England wrote:
Unless, of course, you have a limited number of fuse locations, and therefor
e, multiple non-critical 2A loads on one circuit that has wiring sized to ac
cept a 20A fuse.
The fuse protects the wire. (There's a period at the end of that sentence...
) :-)
> On 6/20/2017 11:13 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
> It would be dumb to put a 20A breaker on a 2A load, regardless of what wir
e you used.
>
> On Jun 20, 2017, at 09:23, Robert McCallum
wrote:
>
> Correct. However the assumption must be made that the wire installed is ad
equate for the intended task. My point was that if you've installed a 14ga w
ire you protect it with the appropriate fuse for that wire, and not necessar
ily downsize the fuse because the device you're powering draws only 1 amp. O
nce adequacy of both wire and fuse is established then the fuse size chosen b
ecomes a function of the wire and not the connected load.
> Respectfully
> Bob McC
>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
>> Date: June 19, 2017 at 5:38 PM
>>
>> Hi Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> You are right that the fuse is there to protect the wire, but the size (i
n A) of the fuse is a function of the current which is drawn by what is conn
ected at the other end of the wire, isn=99t it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Otherwise you could put a 1A fuse to protect a #24 wire with a pitot heat
er at the end, and you would never see that heater working when you wanted i
t.
>>
>>
>>
>> With due respect
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>> De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Robert McCallum
>> Enviada: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:35 PM
>> Para: aeroelectric-list
>> Assunto: Re: AeroElectric-List: com dual PWR/GND on two fuses?
>>
>>
>>
>> Always bear in mind that the fuses are sized to protect the wire and what
is connected at the other end (in this case your radio) has no influence on
the fuse size used.
>>
>> As long as the wires are adequate for the 10 Amps then 10 Amp fuses are f
ine and certainly if the existing wiring will supply the new device's requir
ements then they may be reused/re-purposed.
>>
>> Bob McC
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
>> Date: June 16, 2017 at 5:20 PM
>>
>>
t>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> most avionics do have PWR and GND on two pins. My SL30 had even one used
>> for the NAV part (3A fused) and one for the COM part (5A fused).
>>
>> I have to replace it with a new 8.33, but just going for a COM right
>> now, that one has as well 2 pins each tied together, PWR onto a 10A fuse
>> (8W COM).
>>
>> Is there any disadvantage, if I use the existing cabling with the 2x
>> GND/PWR on extra fuses? Should I use 2x10A fuses (for a 8W com I found
>> the 10A a bit high).
>>
>> Thanks for your advice
>>
>> Cheers W-======================
===========
>>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
At 10:01 AM 6/20/2017, you wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
>I want to wire my new grip tosten with my basic 12v electrical
>actuating as trim (up/down) pulling a spring.
>
>I bought a double car relay to do some test to find the good wiring
>diagram but before that I prefer asking in this forum how can I wire
>it if anybody know the response ?
>
>Before I was a double pole switch, wire by the previous owner.
>
>I had a problem with the previous wiring, when i actuated my trim,
>my compas begin to turn completely. The motor/switch were not close
>to the compas.
>
>I have tested to set the motor very close to the compas to do a
>test. Without all the wire juste motor and a small battery. And in
>this case it don't turn ! I don't understand why.
It's difficult to diagnose the underlying
physics for your observations without first-
hand observation and diagnosis. I can tell
you that incidences of wiring
interfering with the compass is rare.
Suggest you get the new trim system installed
using the drawing cited below as guidance.
Then see if the compass is still getting
trashed . . . it will be easier to figure
out why it IS having problems than to
figure out why it is NOT having problems.
>I find this documentation to do my wire.
I think this wiring diagram is what you're
needing.
http://tinyurl.com/y7mwhg4t
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ciolino" <JohnCiolino(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselink vs. blade fuse |
All,
I am confused over the difference between using a fuselink and a blade fuse.
Bob's Z-11 diagram shows a fuselink on the wire between the buss bar and the
master switch. The rest of the electrical circuits are protected by blade
fuses, why not use a blade fuse here? From Bob's write up on circuit
protection in the AeroElectric Connection a fuselink is just another form of
circuit protection. Why not just use a blade fuse everywhere?
John Ciolino
Bearhawk Patrol builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink vs. blade fuse |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
That fuselink is part of the crowbar over-voltage circuit. Since the crowbar circuit
is more likely (than any other circuit) to nuisance trip its over current
device, a circuit breaker is used to make it easier to reset. In many aircraft
the circuit breaker might be located quite some distance from the main power
bus. That long wire needs to be protected on the source end; thus a fuselink.
Why not use a fuse? Because a fuse is fast blowing. A fuse, even a much
larger fuse, will blow quicker than a smaller circuit breaker in series with
it.
I see no reason why the circuit breaker needs to be mounted on the down steam
side of the master switch. Connect the circuit breaker directly to and close
to the main power bus. Then no fuselink is needed.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470318#470318
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
To avoid compass interference, do not run a single wire anywhere near the compass.
Run the positive and negative wires together in a twisted pair.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470319#470319
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink vs. blade fuse |
>I see no reason why the circuit breaker needs to be mounted on the
>down steam side of the master switch. Connect the circuit breaker
>directly to and close to the main power bus. Then no fuselink is needed.
Not so much 'down stream' as 'adjacent to'
that switch.
Emacs!
Fuse blocks are generally mounted out of sight,
out of mind. The necessity for a single breaker
to be part of the mix calls for extending the
bus to the switch location . . . hence protection
more robust than fuses, less robust than
breakers, i.e. fusible link.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselink vs. blade fuse (CORRECTION) |
>I see no reason why the circuit breaker needs to be mounted on the
>down steam side of the master switch. Connect the circuit breaker
>directly to and close to the main power bus. Then no fuselink is needed.
Not so much 'down stream' as 'adjacent to'
that switch.
Emacs!
Fuse blocks are generally mounted out of sight,
out of mind. The necessity for a single breaker
to be part of the mix calls for extending the
bus to the switch location . . . hence protection
more robust than BOTH fuses and breakers, i.e.
fusible link.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Future of flight . . . |
http://tinyurl.com/ybztoq3g
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Does Anyone Recognize This AMP 12 Pin Connector? |
Hi All,
I need to rearrange the wires on this AMP 12 pin connector and my hope is to
simply pop out the terminal ends and leave the wires still connected and
just move them to the proper pin locations and pop them back in (I might
have to re-bend the metal retainer tabs).
The questions are:
Does anyone know what terminal connector this is?
How does one (me) unseat the terminal ends from the connector and what tool
should be used?
..
THANKS!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Future of flight . . . |
Yes, the electric airplane...
Eventually, we will have viable electric airplanes. The model airplane
folks have largely gone to electric power...
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/ybztoq3g
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This AMP 12 Pin Connector? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 6/21/2017 12:02 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I need to rearrange the wires on this AMP 12 pin connector and my hope
> is to simply pop out the terminal ends and leave the wires still
> connected and just move them to the proper pin locations and pop them
> back in (I might have to re-bend the metal retainer tabs).
>
> The questions are:
>
> Does anyone know what terminal connector this is?
>
> How does one (me) unseat the terminal ends from the connector and what
> tool should be used?
>
> ..
>
> THANKS!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
It *looks* like what most would call a 'molex' style connector. If the
pins are made like typical molex pins, there are 'barbs' on the pins,
instead of in the connector body, as you see with dSub style connectors.
The release tool would be inserted on the pin end to release the pin,
instead of the wire end. Back before I learned to avoid molex's like
the plague, I used to retract the barbs using a very small jeweler's
screwdriver (too cheap to buy the proper tool).
If it's really like a molex, here's a search for pin removal technique:
https://www.google.com/search?q=molex+connector+pin+removal&oq=molex+connector+pin&aqs=chrome.5.0j69i57j0l4.10241j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Since yours is an AMP brand connector, it may be made completely
differently from the molex products.
Here's a search for AMP pin removal:
https://www.google.com/search?q=amp+connector+pin+removal&oq=amp+connector+pin+removal&aqs=chrome..69i57.171741j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Charlie
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This AMP 12 Pin Connector? |
At 12:02 PM 6/21/2017, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I need to rearrange the wires on this AMP 12 pin connector and my
>hope is to simply pop out the terminal ends and leave the wires
>still connected and just move them to the proper pin locations and
>pop them back in (I might have to re-bend the metal retainer tabs).
>
>The questions are:
>
>Does anyone know what terminal connector this is?
>How does one (me) unseat the terminal ends from the connector and
>what tool should be used?\
What does the other end look like?
TE Connectivity (AMP) offers a series of
mate_n_lock connectors which all use
the same pins
If you look over this array of pins
http://tinyurl.com/y8r989bn
you will find that the 'business end'
of pins and sockets are uniform while
the wire ends are available in a range
of sizes. I believe they all extract
with the same tool.
It would really help to see the other
side of the connector.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This AMP 12 Pin Connector? |
It would really help to see the other
side of the connector.
I 'think' this is the tool you'll need
TE CONNECTIVITY 305183
or one very similar. exact p/n to be
determined.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This AMP 12 Pin Connector? |
Thanks for the information... I knew I could count on you. I will report
back
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
On Jun 21, 2017 11:21 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> It would really help to see the other
> side of the connector.
>
> I 'think' this is the tool you'll need
>
> [image: TE CONNECTIVITY 305183]
>
> or one very similar. exact p/n to be
> determined.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Future of flight... |
"Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting airplanes for
local flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're almost
there already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That
will take a while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part,
it will be the charging infrastructure.
Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure built up
for electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the
economics involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's IF all the
electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug / etc.
I wish it were not true, because I would LOVE to have an electric car
(but can't afford a Tesla), and there is no "fast-charge" station in
between Dallas and Austin that would allow me to drive a Chevy Bolt
(which would be my preferred "inexpensive" electric vehicle) from my
home and my kids' place in Austin. Even with a 200+ mile range, I would
need a charge before I got to their house...
I suspect we'll experience similar stuff with electric planes for many,
many years.
Jim Parker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | NiB - Dynon Skyview Touch 10" SV-D1000T For Sale... |
I have a brand new in box Skyview Touch 10" screen for sale. Dynon web site price
is $3905. I'll let this one go for the first $3500.
I can accept Visa/MC for a 5% fee. Check's okay too, but it will have to clear
before shipping.
I'll send pictures of the actual unit upon request.
I will ship it anywhere for the cost of required shipping (UPS/FedEx/USPS).
I was going to use this unit in my RV-4 project, but decided to go with an HDX
instead.
Best Regards,
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-963-1130 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Future of flight... |
Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near $2.00 / gal.
headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. Tesla will require a few
more billions of our tax dollars to stay afloat. Look what has happened to
the solar plants. T. Boone Pickens gave up on wind power after spending
millions of his own money.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jim(at)poogiebearranch.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:12 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Future of flight...
"Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting airplanes for local
flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're almost there
already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That will take a
while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part, it will be the
charging infrastructure.
Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure built up for
electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the economics
involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's IF all the
electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug / etc.
I wish it were not true, because I would LOVE to have an electric car (but
can't afford a Tesla), and there is no "fast-charge" station in between
Dallas and Austin that would allow me to drive a Chevy Bolt (which would be
my preferred "inexpensive" electric vehicle) from my home and my kids' place
in Austin. Even with a 200+ mile range, I would need a charge before I got
to their house...
I suspect we'll experience similar stuff with electric planes for many, many
years.
Jim Parker
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Future of flight... |
| From: | Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org> |
My 2 electric cars are powered by solar panels on my roof, not by coal.
I choose it because it's still less expensive than gasoline, doesn't
fund terrorist countries and doesn't pollute the atmosphere. Plus
they're fun to drive. When I drive regular cars now, I despise the noise
and vibration.
I'm excited about the explorations of electric aviation. Of course
battery technology is still too heavy and limited to allow for anything
beyond short flights right now (although battery capacity is increasing
quite dramatically) however I think we could see some very cool hybrid
applications. Designs can be innovative. Using electric motors to drive
props and ducted fans can be far more efficient than using gear boxes or
long odd drive shafts. Engines or turbines running generators can run at
their most efficient speed instead of what's most efficient for the
prop. Small battery banks can provide a buffer, allow "silent" taxiing
and give emergency power in case the generator quits.
I also think it could be ideal for helicopters since a large part of
their maintenance and wear items are gearbox related. There are some
really interesting developments going on in electric mult-rotor
designs--full size drones essentially.
And Tesla seems to be doing fine without any of our tax dollars.
--Rick
On 6/21/2017 4:22 PM, Tim Yoder wrote:
>
> Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near $2.00 / gal.
> headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. Tesla will require a few
> more billions of our tax dollars to stay afloat. Look what has happened to
> the solar plants. T. Boone Pickens gave up on wind power after spending
> millions of his own money.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> "Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting airplanes for local
> flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're almost there
> already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That will take a
> while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part, it will be the
> charging infrastructure.
>
> Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure built up for
> electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the economics
> involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
> charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's IF all the
> electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug / etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Future of flight... |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Cole who? And why would he want to power my car? As to T. Boone, it
might be worthwhile to expand your news sources a bit, to get a better
picture.
If you want to see a real tax dollar, and
lobbied-government-forced-consumer dollar boondoggle, google 'Kemper
County coal power plant'. Current (pardon the pun) construction spending
total (and it's not over yet) that is roughly five Hundred BILLION
dollars *over budget* at >$700Billion, and they have conceded that they
can never burn coal there economically so they have shifted to natural
gas. The rate payers in that plant's service area were forced to
pre-fund a huge percentage of that cost, until the Public Service
Commission was forced to realize that the consumers it was supposed to
serve were being ripped off.
Do the math. A significant percentage of their customer base could have
had 30KW (gross overkill) solar systems *complete with battery storage &
generator backup*, for the money wasted on that plant.
I'm always amazed that people closely tied to tech (airplanes and what
powers them) don't believe in how quickly tech advances....
Charlie
On 6/21/2017 6:22 PM, Tim Yoder wrote:
>
> Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near $2.00 / gal.
> headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. Tesla will require a few
> more billions of our tax dollars to stay afloat. Look what has happened to
> the solar plants. T. Boone Pickens gave up on wind power after spending
> millions of his own money.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> jim(at)poogiebearranch.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:12 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Future of flight...
>
>
> "Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting airplanes for local
> flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're almost there
> already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That will take a
> while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part, it will be the
> charging infrastructure.
>
> Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure built up for
> electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the economics
> involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
> charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's IF all the
> electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug / etc.
>
> I wish it were not true, because I would LOVE to have an electric car (but
> can't afford a Tesla), and there is no "fast-charge" station in between
> Dallas and Austin that would allow me to drive a Chevy Bolt (which would be
> my preferred "inexpensive" electric vehicle) from my home and my kids' place
> in Austin. Even with a 200+ mile range, I would need a charge before I got
> to their house...
>
> I suspect we'll experience similar stuff with electric planes for many, many
> years.
>
> Jim Parker
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Future of flight... |
Well said. It's interesting...you have 2 electrics. I have 2 electrics. Another
RV buddy of mine has 2 electrics. My opinion is, if more people would just
try one and buy one, they'd soon see why they are so nice to have. We wouldn't
buy 2 if they weren't making us happy. My second one I just got as a 3 year
lease return and when purchased with 22k miles on it, was a better deal all
the way around than any comparable used car with a gas engine.
And, mine is usually powered by the local hydro dam...
Other times it's powered by a nuke plant not too far away. Too bad more people
don't embrace nuke....it's really the best choice for mass populations.
Tim
> On Jun 21, 2017, at 7:16 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:
>
>
> My 2 electric cars are powered by solar panels on my roof, not by coal. I choose
it because it's still less expensive than gasoline, doesn't fund terrorist
countries and doesn't pollute the atmosphere. Plus they're fun to drive. When
I drive regular cars now, I despise the noise and vibration.
>
> I'm excited about the explorations of electric aviation. Of course battery technology
is still too heavy and limited to allow for anything beyond short flights
right now (although battery capacity is increasing quite dramatically) however
I think we could see some very cool hybrid applications. Designs can be
innovative. Using electric motors to drive props and ducted fans can be far more
efficient than using gear boxes or long odd drive shafts. Engines or turbines
running generators can run at their most efficient speed instead of what's
most efficient for the prop. Small battery banks can provide a buffer, allow "silent"
taxiing and give emergency power in case the generator quits.
>
> I also think it could be ideal for helicopters since a large part of their maintenance
and wear items are gearbox related. There are some really interesting
developments going on in electric mult-rotor designs--full size drones essentially.
>
> And Tesla seems to be doing fine without any of our tax dollars.
>
> --Rick
>
>
>
>> On 6/21/2017 4:22 PM, Tim Yoder wrote:
>> Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near $2.00 / gal.
>> headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. Tesla will require a few
>> more billions of our tax dollars to stay afloat. Look what has happened to
>> the solar plants. T. Boone Pickens gave up on wind power after spending
>> millions of his own money.
>> Tim
>> -----Original Message-----
>> "Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting airplanes for local
>> flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're almost there
>> already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That will take a
>> while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part, it will be the
>> charging infrastructure.
>> Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure built up for
>> electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the economics
>> involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
>> charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's IF all the
>> electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug / etc.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Future of flight... |
Flight schools will be the very last adopters of electric airplanes if ever. Flight
schools only make money by keeping their aircraft in the air every hour of
every sunny weekend day, to make up for all the down time. You can refuel an
empty gas powered 172 in two minutes while the next pilot is performing a preflight
inspection and get it earning money with essentially no gaps.
Lets see what the equivalent electricity requirements are. Lets say we burned 15
gallons in our 172 in our 90 minute flight, and we need to achieve a five minute
recharge.
The energy density of gasoline is 45MJ/litre, which is 171MJ/gallon
15 gallons of gasoline has 2.6GJ of energy.
2.5GJ serviced in 5 minutes is about 8.7 MW.
An 8.7MW draw is 800 amps from a dedicated 11,000kV distribution substation.
That is an entirely absurdly large amount of power to have to provide to an airport:
the infrastructure doesnt exist, would have to be built, and paid for.
So lets bundle together stunningly efficient airplanes, that fly with 50% of the
power required at present. Lets lengthen the charge time to an hour, throw in
multiple battery packs that we can quick change, whatever else you like. By
the time you have more than two airplanes on the ramp the cost of the electrical
infrastructure to recharge them is beyond belief.
Now lets price the cost of electricity with equivalent energy content to a gallon
of 100LL:
171 MJ is 47.5kWh, I dont know what the industrial price for electricity is but
the retail price is 12 US cents per kWh, so that gallon equivalent of energy
is costing you $5.70 anyway. Not a lot of savings there.
Youre welcome to power your electric airplane from solar panels on your roof, and
it might work if you only want to fly a couple of hours a week. Thats not going
to cut it for anyone who uses an airplane for anything serious.
> On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:16 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:
>
>
> My 2 electric cars are powered by solar panels on my roof, not by coal. I choose
it because it's still less expensive than gasoline, doesn't fund terrorist
countries and doesn't pollute the atmosphere. Plus they're fun to drive. When
I drive regular cars now, I despise the noise and vibration.
>
> I'm excited about the explorations of electric aviation. Of course battery technology
is still too heavy and limited to allow for anything beyond short flights
right now (although battery capacity is increasing quite dramatically) however
I think we could see some very cool hybrid applications. Designs can be
innovative. Using electric motors to drive props and ducted fans can be far more
efficient than using gear boxes or long odd drive shafts. Engines or turbines
running generators can run at their most efficient speed instead of what's
most efficient for the prop. Small battery banks can provide a buffer, allow "silent"
taxiing and give emergency power in case the generator quits.
>
> I also think it could be ideal for helicopters since a large part of their maintenance
and wear items are gearbox related. There are some really interesting
developments going on in electric mult-rotor designs--full size drones essentially.
>
> And Tesla seems to be doing fine without any of our tax dollars.
>
> --Rick
>
>
>
> On 6/21/2017 4:22 PM, Tim Yoder wrote:
>> Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near $2.00 / gal.
>> headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. Tesla will require a few
>> more billions of our tax dollars to stay afloat. Look what has happened to
>> the solar plants. T. Boone Pickens gave up on wind power after spending
>> millions of his own money.
>> Tim
>> -----Original Message-----
>> "Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting airplanes for local
>> flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're almost there
>> already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That will take a
>> while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part, it will be the
>> charging infrastructure.
>> Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure built up for
>> electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the economics
>> involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
>> charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's IF all the
>> electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug / etc.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Future of flight... |
Slight correction, total cost is now looking at just over 7 billion, not
700 billion. It was supposed to be a model for environmental technology to
create a clean coal power plant.
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> Cole who? And why would he want to power my car? As to T. Boone, it might
> be worthwhile to expand your news sources a bit, to get a better picture.
>
> If you want to see a real tax dollar, and lobbied-government-forced-consumer
> dollar boondoggle, google 'Kemper County coal power plant'. Current (pardon
> the pun) construction spending total (and it's not over yet) that is
> roughly five Hundred BILLION dollars *over budget* at >$700Billion, and
> they have conceded that they can never burn coal there economically so they
> have shifted to natural gas. The rate payers in that plant's service area
> were forced to pre-fund a huge percentage of that cost, until the Public
> Service Commission was forced to realize that the consumers it was supposed
> to serve were being ripped off.
>
> Do the math. A significant percentage of their customer base could have
> had 30KW (gross overkill) solar systems *complete with battery storage &
> generator backup*, for the money wasted on that plant.
>
> I'm always amazed that people closely tied to tech (airplanes and what
> powers them) don't believe in how quickly tech advances....
>
> Charlie
>
> On 6/21/2017 6:22 PM, Tim Yoder wrote:
>
>> ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com>
>>
>> Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near $2.00 / gal.
>> headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. Tesla will require a few
>> more billions of our tax dollars to stay afloat. Look what has happened to
>> the solar plants. T. Boone Pickens gave up on wind power after spending
>> millions of his own money.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> jim(at)poogiebearranch.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:12 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Future of flight...
>>
>>
>> "Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting airplanes for
>> local
>> flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're almost there
>> already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That will take a
>> while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part, it will be
>> the
>> charging infrastructure.
>>
>> Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure built up for
>> electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the economics
>> involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
>> charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's IF all the
>> electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug / etc.
>>
>> I wish it were not true, because I would LOVE to have an electric car (but
>> can't afford a Tesla), and there is no "fast-charge" station in between
>> Dallas and Austin that would allow me to drive a Chevy Bolt (which would
>> be
>> my preferred "inexpensive" electric vehicle) from my home and my kids'
>> place
>> in Austin. Even with a 200+ mile range, I would need a charge before I got
>> to their house...
>>
>> I suspect we'll experience similar stuff with electric planes for many,
>> many
>> years.
>>
>> Jim Parker
>>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Future of flight... |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Well for starters, you conveniently leave out the percentage of the
gasoline's energy that actually propels the plane. I won't go any
farther; doesn't seem to be any point.
Charlie
On 6/21/2017 8:07 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> Flight schools will be the very last adopters of electric airplanes if ever.
Flight schools only make money by keeping their aircraft in the air every hour
of every sunny weekend day, to make up for all the down time. You can refuel
an empty gas powered 172 in two minutes while the next pilot is performing a preflight
inspection and get it earning money with essentially no gaps.
>
> Lets see what the equivalent electricity requirements are. Lets say we burned
15 gallons in our 172 in our 90 minute flight, and we need to achieve a five
minute recharge.
>
> The energy density of gasoline is 45MJ/litre, which is 171MJ/gallon
> 15 gallons of gasoline has 2.6GJ of energy.
> 2.5GJ serviced in 5 minutes is about 8.7 MW.
> An 8.7MW draw is 800 amps from a dedicated 11,000kV distribution substation.
> That is an entirely absurdly large amount of power to have to provide to an airport:
the infrastructure doesnt exist, would have to be built, and paid for.
>
> So lets bundle together stunningly efficient airplanes, that fly with 50% of
the power required at present. Lets lengthen the charge time to an hour, throw
in multiple battery packs that we can quick change, whatever else you like. By
the time you have more than two airplanes on the ramp the cost of the electrical
infrastructure to recharge them is beyond belief.
>
> Now lets price the cost of electricity with equivalent energy content to a gallon
of 100LL:
> 171 MJ is 47.5kWh, I dont know what the industrial price for electricity is but
the retail price is 12 US cents per kWh, so that gallon equivalent of energy
is costing you $5.70 anyway. Not a lot of savings there.
>
> Youre welcome to power your electric airplane from solar panels on your roof,
and it might work if you only want to fly a couple of hours a week. Thats not
going to cut it for anyone who uses an airplane for anything serious.
>
>
>> On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:16 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:
>>
>>
>> My 2 electric cars are powered by solar panels on my roof, not by coal. I choose
it because it's still less expensive than gasoline, doesn't fund terrorist
countries and doesn't pollute the atmosphere. Plus they're fun to drive. When
I drive regular cars now, I despise the noise and vibration.
>>
>> I'm excited about the explorations of electric aviation. Of course battery technology
is still too heavy and limited to allow for anything beyond short flights
right now (although battery capacity is increasing quite dramatically) however
I think we could see some very cool hybrid applications. Designs can be
innovative. Using electric motors to drive props and ducted fans can be far more
efficient than using gear boxes or long odd drive shafts. Engines or turbines
running generators can run at their most efficient speed instead of what's
most efficient for the prop. Small battery banks can provide a buffer, allow
"silent" taxiing and give emergency power in case the generator quits.
>>
>> I also think it could be ideal for helicopters since a large part of their maintenance
and wear items are gearbox related. There are some really interesting
developments going on in electric mult-rotor designs--full size drones essentially.
>>
>> And Tesla seems to be doing fine without any of our tax dollars.
>>
>> --Rick
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/21/2017 4:22 PM, Tim Yoder wrote:
>>> Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near $2.00 / gal.
>>> headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. Tesla will require a few
>>> more billions of our tax dollars to stay afloat. Look what has happened to
>>> the solar plants. T. Boone Pickens gave up on wind power after spending
>>> millions of his own money.
>>> Tim
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> "Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting airplanes for local
>>> flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're almost there
>>> already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That will take a
>>> while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part, it will be the
>>> charging infrastructure.
>>> Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure built up for
>>> electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the economics
>>> involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
>>> charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's IF all the
>>> electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug / etc.
>>
>>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Future of flight... |
it's about 30%.
Do you think the percentage of energy you can get out of a battery into useful
propulsion is much better?
On Jun 21, 2017, at 21:28, Charlie England wrote:
Well for starters, you conveniently leave out the percentage of the gasoline's
energy that actually propels the plane. I won't go any farther; doesn't seem to
be any point.
Charlie
> On 6/21/2017 8:07 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> Flight schools will be the very last adopters of electric airplanes if ever.
Flight schools only make money by keeping their aircraft in the air every hour
of every sunny weekend day, to make up for all the down time. You can refuel
an empty gas powered 172 in two minutes while the next pilot is performing a preflight
inspection and get it earning money with essentially no gaps.
>
> Lets see what the equivalent electricity requirements are. Lets say we burned
15 gallons in our 172 in our 90 minute flight, and we need to achieve a five
minute recharge.
>
> The energy density of gasoline is 45MJ/litre, which is 171MJ/gallon
> 15 gallons of gasoline has 2.6GJ of energy.
> 2.5GJ serviced in 5 minutes is about 8.7 MW.
> An 8.7MW draw is 800 amps from a dedicated 11,000kV distribution substation.
> That is an entirely absurdly large amount of power to have to provide to an airport:
the infrastructure doesnt exist, would have to be built, and paid for.
>
> So lets bundle together stunningly efficient airplanes, that fly with 50% of
the power required at present. Lets lengthen the charge time to an hour, throw
in multiple battery packs that we can quick change, whatever else you like. By
the time you have more than two airplanes on the ramp the cost of the electrical
infrastructure to recharge them is beyond belief.
>
> Now lets price the cost of electricity with equivalent energy content to a gallon
of 100LL:
> 171 MJ is 47.5kWh, I dont know what the industrial price for electricity is but
the retail price is 12 US cents per kWh, so that gallon equivalent of energy
is costing you $5.70 anyway. Not a lot of savings there.
>
> Youre welcome to power your electric airplane from solar panels on your roof,
and it might work if you only want to fly a couple of hours a week. Thats not
going to cut it for anyone who uses an airplane for anything serious.
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:16 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:
>>
>>
>> My 2 electric cars are powered by solar panels on my roof, not by coal. I choose
it because it's still less expensive than gasoline, doesn't fund terrorist
countries and doesn't pollute the atmosphere. Plus they're fun to drive. When
I drive regular cars now, I despise the noise and vibration.
>>
>> I'm excited about the explorations of electric aviation. Of course battery technology
is still too heavy and limited to allow for anything beyond short flights
right now (although battery capacity is increasing quite dramatically) however
I think we could see some very cool hybrid applications. Designs can be
innovative. Using electric motors to drive props and ducted fans can be far more
efficient than using gear boxes or long odd drive shafts. Engines or turbines
running generators can run at their most efficient speed instead of what's
most efficient for the prop. Small battery banks can provide a buffer, allow
"silent" taxiing and give emergency power in case the generator quits.
>>
>> I also think it could be ideal for helicopters since a large part of their maintenance
and wear items are gearbox related. There are some really interesting
developments going on in electric mult-rotor designs--full size drones essentially.
>>
>> And Tesla seems to be doing fine without any of our tax dollars.
>>
>> --Rick
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 6/21/2017 4:22 PM, Tim Yoder wrote:
>>> Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near $2.00 / gal.
>>> headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. Tesla will require a few
>>> more billions of our tax dollars to stay afloat. Look what has happened to
>>> the solar plants. T. Boone Pickens gave up on wind power after spending
>>> millions of his own money.
>>> Tim
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> "Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting airplanes for local
>>> flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're almost there
>>> already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That will take a
>>> while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part, it will be the
>>> charging infrastructure.
>>> Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure built up for
>>> electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the economics
>>> involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
>>> charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's IF all the
>>> electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug / etc.
>>
>>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Future of flight . . . |
Let's not forget that a solar powered airplane has already flown around the
world.
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:42 AM, John B wrote:
> Yes, the electric airplane...
> Eventually, we will have viable electric airplanes. The model airplane
> folks have largely gone to electric power...
>
> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> http://tinyurl.com/ybztoq3g
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Future of flight... |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
oops. You're right. I guess it just seems like 700 billion, after
watching that fiasco for so long.
To return the favor; slight correction to your evaluation; it was
*marketed* as a model for environmental technology to create a clean
coal power plant. Talk about alternate facts....
On 6/21/2017 8:19 PM, William Greenley wrote:
> Slight correction, total cost is now looking at just over 7 billion,
> not 700 billion. It was supposed to be a model for environmental
> technology to create a clean coal power plant.
>
> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Cole who? And why would he want to power my car? As to T. Boone,
> it might be worthwhile to expand your news sources a bit, to get a
> better picture.
>
> If you want to see a real tax dollar, and
> lobbied-government-forced-consumer dollar boondoggle, google
> 'Kemper County coal power plant'. Current (pardon the pun)
> construction spending total (and it's not over yet) that is
> roughly five Hundred BILLION dollars *over budget* at
> >$700Billion, and they have conceded that they can never burn coal
> there economically so they have shifted to natural gas. The rate
> payers in that plant's service area were forced to pre-fund a huge
> percentage of that cost, until the Public Service Commission was
> forced to realize that the consumers it was supposed to serve were
> being ripped off.
>
> Do the math. A significant percentage of their customer base could
> have had 30KW (gross overkill) solar systems *complete with
> battery storage & generator backup*, for the money wasted on that
> plant.
>
> I'm always amazed that people closely tied to tech (airplanes and
> what powers them) don't believe in how quickly tech advances....
>
> Charlie
>
> On 6/21/2017 6:22 PM, Tim Yoder wrote:
>
> >
>
> Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near
> $2.00 / gal.
> headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. Tesla will
> require a few
> more billions of our tax dollars to stay afloat. Look what has
> happened to
> the solar plants. T. Boone Pickens gave up on wind power after
> spending
> millions of his own money.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] On
> Behalf Of
> jim(at)poogiebearranch.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:12 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Future of flight...
>
> >
>
> "Viable" for certain missions, sure. For an FBO renting
> airplanes for local
> flights, training flights, and $100 hamburger runs, we're
> almost there
> already. But "viable" for extended cross-country flights? That
> will take a
> while. It's not the airplane end that will be the slow part,
> it will be the
> charging infrastructure.
>
> Look how long it is taking to get the charging infrastructure
> built up for
> electric vehicles using the highway system, then imagine the
> economics
> involved in setting up "fast chargers" (2-4 hours for a full
> charge) at all the GA airports across the nation. And that's
> IF all the
> electric airplane vendors standardize on a charger type / plug
> / etc.
>
> I wish it were not true, because I would LOVE to have an
> electric car (but
> can't afford a Tesla), and there is no "fast-charge" station
> in between
> Dallas and Austin that would allow me to drive a Chevy Bolt
> (which would be
> my preferred "inexpensive" electric vehicle) from my home and
> my kids' place
> in Austin. Even with a 200+ mile range, I would need a charge
> before I got
> to their house...
>
> I suspect we'll experience similar stuff with electric planes
> for many, many
> years.
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> ===================================
> -
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This AMP 12 Pin Connector? |
The photo is of an AMP Mate'n'lock connector. There are three or four
sizes of Mate'n'lock connectors based on pin size (diameter).
The contact removal tool is a sleeve and plunger tool. The sleeve
compresses the retainer tangs into flush with the contact body and the
plunger pushes them out of the housing.
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:02 AM, William Hunter wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>
> I need to rearrange the wires on this AMP 12 pin connector and my hope is
> to simply pop out the terminal ends and leave the wires still connected and
> just move them to the proper pin locations and pop them back in (I might
> have to re-bend the metal retainer tabs).
>
>
> The questions are:
>
>
> Does anyone know what terminal connector this is?
>
>
> How does one (me) unseat the terminal ends from the connector and what
> tool should be used?
>
>
> ..
>
>
> THANKS!!!
>
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This AMP 12 Pin Connector? |
That is exactly it. THANK YOU SO MUCH for the help.
Bill Hunter
On Jun 22, 2017 5:51 AM, "Christopher Cee Stone" wrote:
> The photo is of an AMP Mate'n'lock connector. There are three or four
> sizes of Mate'n'lock connectors based on pin size (diameter).
>
> The contact removal tool is a sleeve and plunger tool. The sleeve
> compresses the retainer tangs into flush with the contact body and the
> plunger pushes them out of the housing.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:02 AM, William Hunter <
> billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I need to rearrange the wires on this AMP 12 pin connector and my hope is
>> to simply pop out the terminal ends and leave the wires still connected and
>> just move them to the proper pin locations and pop them back in (I might
>> have to re-bend the metal retainer tabs).
>>
>>
>>
>> The questions are:
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know what terminal connector this is?
>>
>>
>>
>> How does one (me) unseat the terminal ends from the connector and what
>> tool should be used?
>>
>>
>>
>> ..
>>
>>
>>
>> THANKS!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Hunter
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Hello,
Thank you I will do it, it's true that before wire was twist only 3 inch. and the
other wire for the trim/switch trim/bus were not.
For the wiring I find a wiring diagram for a car relay, but time to actuate relay
is very slow for trim fonction. Any idea to improve ? (special relay ? or other
things ? )
Mickal ;)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470374#470374
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_dcran_2017_06_22__170547_630.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Future of Flight |
<< Why would you choose to buy a Cole powered car with gas near $2.00 /
gal.
headed toward $1.00 for the next several years. >>
In part, because I already have a wind generator that supplies about 1/2
of my electricity, and if I do get an electric car, I will add a solar
system that will provide the rest. At that point, I would only be
concerned about recharging on the road...
But I also believe your "headed towards $1.00" gas outlook is a bit
optimistic.
<< Flight schools will be the very last adopters of electric airplanes
if ever. Flight schools only make money by keeping their aircraft in the
air every hour of every sunny weekend day, to make up for all the down
time. You can refuel an empty gas powered 172 in two minutes while the
next pilot is performing a preflight inspection and get it earning money
with essentially no gaps. >>
You are making the assumption that the batteries in that airplane cannot
be swapped out in an equivalent amount of time. Some of the more
practical designs for electric-powered airplanes have swappable battery
packs that can be recharges over time - no need to draw massive amounts
of electricity over a 5-minute period. You've got a full 24 hours to
recharge that battery pack. That changes the power draw required to
recharge that battery to about 30KW (if I did my math correctly).
And as someone else pointed out, our Lycosaurus engines are <30%
efficient at converting gas to power (though some more modern designs
may be up to 45% efficient). By contrast, an electric motor running at
75% rated power is generally 90% efficient. So you'll need about 35% of
the energy using an electric motor that you would if you used an ICE. So
your 30KW draw comes down even further, towards the 10KW range.
And you're completely ignoring the economics of no longer having to
maintain that internal combustion engine, the fuel pumps, lines, and
tanks, etc. Even at current battery prices, Siemens and AirBus have
determined that it would be less expensive to purchase and maintain
spare batteries than service and maintain gas-powered engines.
Don't get me wrong - I don't think this is going to happen tomorrow, and
I'm not selling my gas-powered airplane any time soon, but it WILL
happen in most of our lifetimes, and perhaps even within the next few
years. The airplanes may not look like what we're used to seeing, but
multi-rotor type aircraft are on the (very near) horizon!
Jim Parker
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Future of flight . . . |
| From: | George Nielsen <genie(at)swissmail.org> |
An aspect of electric aircraft which is worth considering is the risk of
fire following an accident. I know of a case where an electric aircraft
got into a spin at low altitude and crashed. The post crash fire
consumed everything and little was left of the pilot. Fortunately he
died on impact.
Batteries are a fire hazard. We have seen that with Tesla cars that
burn. Fortunately nobody has been hurt so far, as far as I know. We have
also seen the batteries of laptops and of Samsung Galaxies catch fire. I
understand that such events are caused by a rupture within the battery
which results in a short circuit, and the energy thus released causes a
conflagration.
I wonder how much it would cost to insure an electric aircraft that uses
lithium-ion or similar batteries. The possibilities of a crash causing a
major conflagration have to be kept in mind.
It is obvious that electric motors are far more efficient than internal
combustion engines. However, generating electricity is very inefficient.
One also has to take the energy cost of transmission of all that
electric power into consideration. Of course refining oil and
distributing fuel also consumes energy. It is my impression that, if one
takes the global view, there is no huge difference between the
efficiencies of internal combustion and electric aircraft.
Given the cost of creating an electric power grid that serves all
airfields and the fire hazard of current batteries in my opinion the
internal combustion engine is the power source of the foreseeable
future. But not necessarily the spark ignition engine. I think that
diesel engines are the future of aircraft propulsion for a few decades
at least. They are heavier but provide power and torque at lower engine
speeds and are more efficient energy wise. Besides I understand that
diesel and jet fuel are less of a fire risk than gasoline. Current
diesel engines for aircraft are converted automotive units and may not
be optimal, but once they start making dedicated aircraft diesel engines
I expect to see improvements.
I myself have flown diesel powered Robin DR400's. I would be reluctant
to set foot in an electric aircraft, at least one based on present
technology.
George Nielsen
On 22-Jun-17 9:01, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
> From: John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Future of flight . . .
>
> Yes, the electric airplane...
> Eventually, we will have viable electric airplanes. The model airplane
> folks have largely gone to electric power...
>
> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> http://tinyurl.com/ybztoq3g
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Future of flight . . . |
| From: | Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org> |
On 6/22/2017 10:50 AM, George Nielsen wrote:
>
>
> An aspect of electric aircraft which is worth considering is the risk of
> fire following an accident. I know of a case where an electric aircraft
> got into a spin at low altitude and crashed. The post crash fire
> consumed everything and little was left of the pilot. Fortunately he
> died on impact.
Different battery chemistries have different risk of fire. As do
different liquid aviation fuels. Car fires are so common (175,000
resulting in 445 deaths and $1.2 billion in damage in 2015 alone) that
they barely make the news. Electric vehicle fires get sensationalized
because they're so rare. As electric aircraft get commercialized, I
believe that's a risk that's easily mitigated.
> It is obvious that electric motors are far more efficient than internal
> combustion engines. However, generating electricity is very inefficient.
> One also has to take the energy cost of transmission of all that
> electric power into consideration. Of course refining oil and
> distributing fuel also consumes energy. It is my impression that, if one
> takes the global view, there is no huge difference between the
> efficiencies of internal combustion and electric aircraft.
Generating electricity isn't all that inefficient especially compared to
"generating" fuel. In fact refining fuel takes huge amounts of
electricity and heat. Several analysis have said it takes roughly 6kWh
of energy to refine one gallon of gasoline, or enough to drive an
electric car 20 miles. This article is a fairly unbiased analysis of a
lot of that research:
https://greentransportation.info/energy-transportation/gasoline-costs-6kwh.html
> Given the cost of creating an electric power grid that serves all
> airfields and the fire hazard of current batteries in my opinion the
> internal combustion engine is the power source of the foreseeable
> future.
I think it will be for a while, as well, but only because of the need to
go distances and/or recharge very quickly. Both of which are coming
faster than I suspect we imagine.
--Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Thank you bob,
I haven't see the response before and I answered in other topic.
I will try it and I will come back to tell if it run better or not. (if it run
well also to tell what it was bad if it can help anyone.)
I find relay a bit slow for the motor trim operation, we haven't another solution
to wire it with another system ? (transistor ? I don't know well what is it,
I just read that on internet)
Thank you !
Mickal
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470400#470400
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question about Z19RB and OVP/Beaker and size wire |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Hello again,
Just to ask a question about this OVP wiring.
I have a filter with it (b&c complet OVP system) for the relay I didn't put it
to wire it like the diagram, but the filter have to be add or not in my system
?
What is his fonction ?
Mickal
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470403#470403
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
Le 23/06/2017 14:26, Achille a crit :
>
> Thank you bob,
>
> I haven't see the response before and I answered in other topic.
>
> I will try it and I will come back to tell if it run better or not. (if it run
well also to tell what it was bad if it can help anyone.)
>
> I find relay a bit slow for the motor trim operation, we haven't another solution
to wire it with another system ? (transistor ? I don't know well what is
it, I just read that on internet)
>
Achille,
Just in case you happen to be happier posting in French, do not hesitate
to mail me personal in French.
Could you explain what you find so slow in relay operation, especially
considering that most trims are slow operating ?
N'hsite pas discuter en franais !
Best regards,
--
Amicalement,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
Le 23/06/2017 14:26, Achille a crit :
> I find relay a bit slow for the motor trim operation, we haven't another solution
to wire it with another system ? (transistor ? I don't know well what is
it, I just read that on internet)
>
Achille,
Just in case you happen to be happier posting in French, do not hesitate
to mail me personal in French.
Could you explain what you find so slow in relay operation, especially
considering that most trims are slow operating ?
N'hsite pas discuter en franais !
Best regards,
--
Amicalement,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Z19RB and OVP/Beaker and size |
wire
At 09:11 AM 6/23/2017, you wrote:
>
>Hello again,
>
>Just to ask a question about this OVP wiring.
>
>I have a filter with it (b&c complet OVP system) for the relay I
>didn't put it to wire it like the diagram, but the filter have to be
>add or not in my system ?
>
>What is his fonction ?
The OVP system was configured for use with
a permanent magnet alternator. The filter
is only used with these machines. Your
internally regulated alternator only needs
the OV protection module.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
At 07:26 AM 6/23/2017, you wrote:
>
>Thank you bob,
>
>I haven't see the response before and I answered in other topic.
>
>I will try it and I will come back to tell if it run better or not.
>(if it run well also to tell what it was bad if it can help anyone.)
>
>I find relay a bit slow for the motor trim operation, we haven't
>another solution to wire it with another system ? (transistor ? I
>don't know well what is it, I just read that on internet)
What do you mean my "slow"? Running
speed of the motor? Response delay to
pilot input?
Virtually every trim system I've worked on
over the past 40+ years is controlled by
relays. They're smaller and perhaps a
little bit faster than the suggested
automotive relays . . . but the difference
would be described as a few milliseconds.
The relays can be replaced with transistors
but let's see if it's really necessary.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Yes in respons to pilot input.
Little input didn't run the motor, a bit large input pass through the value desired.
(no possible to adjust it precisely) but maybe it's not the fault of the
relay. More in the trim system made with a spring, which can increase the imprecision,
taking into account your response.
If all system are made with this kind of relay or close to, I will think about
all system before looking on the electrical part so.
(photo not very important helpful but a least we can see the motor)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470425#470425
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_dcran_2017_06_23__235723_187.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
If I understand correctly, it is difficult to adjust the desired trim position
because pressing the switch either does not run the motor long enough or else
it runs too long and overshoots.
More precise control can be achieved by using a lower voltage to run the motor.
But the motor may fail to start if operated with a lower voltage. The solution
may be to operate the motor with a PWM (pulse width modulated) voltage.
The type of relay used has little affect on the trim speed or travel.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470431#470431
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Pengilly" <Peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
Have you tried something like Safety Trim?
http://www.tcwtech.com/Safety-Trim%20Page.htm
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Achille
Sent: 23 June 2017 22:58
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim
Yes in respons to pilot input.
Little input didn't run the motor, a bit large input pass through the value
desired. (no possible to adjust it precisely) but maybe it's not the fault
of the relay. More in the trim system made with a spring, which can
increase the imprecision, taking into account your response.
If all system are made with this kind of relay or close to, I will think
about all system before looking on the electrical part so.
(photo not very important helpful but a least we can see the motor)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470425#470425
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_dcran_2017_06_23__235723_187.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Kuffels" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tosten grip wiring with car-relay for trim |
<< Have you tried something like Safety Trim?
http://www.tcwtech.com/Safety-Trim%20Page.htm >>
Or look at the June 2013 issue of Kitplanes for a do it yourself controller
with all the features and then some of the $400 TCW unit for less than $50
in parts.
Or email me directly for a copy of the article, schematics, photos, etc.
Tom Kuffel
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Leonard" <dave(at)evergreengeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kx 170 b radio, ki211c indicator no power to ki |
211c pin a
Hi guys, been away from flying a while, and airplane mode and N77FE is a
bit pissed off at beong ignored.
Cant get my cdi to power up.
I tried both my kx 170b and michel mx 170 in the tray. I pulled the cdi
and the connector was loose, so fixed that. Probed for power. Pin c on
ki 211 is supposed to be 13.75 v input, no power there w nav radio on. I
do get gs energize power at pin p when tuned to gs freq.
Pin 26 is power out from tray, probed from there to connector end of cdi
connector pin c and wire is connected. Continuity is solid.
Does the tray connector jumper power to the cdi, or does the radio switch
it? Im kinda baffled.
Page 2-13 shows what i think I have.
Thanks, Dave Leonard Super viking N77FE
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://
www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Bendix-King/KX175B_IM.pdf&ved
0ahUKEwiSucHOuNfUAhWp64MKHfcCBQ0QFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNEMWUD78gQVdc-
xgRjp70uLbwJ1bA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kx 170 b radio, ki211c indicator no power |
to ki 211c pin a
At 04:56 PM 6/24/2017, you wrote:
>Hi guys, been away from flying a while, and
>airplane mode and N77FE is a bit pissed off at beong ignored.
>
>Cant get my cdi to power up.
>
>I tried both my kx 170b and michel mx 170 in the
>tray. =C2 =C2 I pulled the cdi and the connector
>was loose, so fixed that.=C2 Probed for power.
>=C2 Pin c on ki 211 is supposed to be 13.75 v
>input, no power there w nav radio on. =C2 I do
>get gs energize power at pin p when tuned to gs freq. =C2 =C2
>
>=C2 Pin 26 is power out from tray, probed from
>there to connector end of cdi connector pin c
>and wire is connected. Continuity is solid.
>
>Does the tray connector jumper power to the cdi,
>or does the radio switch it?=C2 Im kinda baffled. =C2
>
>Page 2-13 shows what i think I have. =C2
>
>Thanks, Dave Leonard Super viking N77FE
>
>http://www.ae
roelectric.com/Installation_Data/Bendix-King/KX175B_IM.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiSuc
HOuNfUAhWp64MKHfcCBQ0QFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNEMWUD78gQVdc-xgRjp70uLbwJ1bA>https
://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.aeroelect
ric.com/Installation_Data/Bendix-King/KX175B_IM.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiSucHOuNfUA
hWp64MKHfcCBQ0QFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNEMWUD78gQVdc-xgRjp70uLbwJ1bA
The label "NAV SWITCHED 13.75VDC" says that this is
indeed a power output pin controlled by the nav receiver's
power switch. There is a Note 7 associated with this
path:
Emacs!
. . . which tells us that this ouput is limited
to 300 ma.
Probing this pathway with the voltmeter should show
bus voltage with the nav radio ON. This power
comes from the radio and is switched internally
to the radio. If the power is missing on TWO
radios, then it seems likely that the disconnect
is somewhere in the ship's wiring.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Leonard" <dave(at)evergreengeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kx 170 b radio, ki211c indicator no power |
to ki 211c pin a
Thanks Bob, that is where I was heading. But it seems odd that the wire
pins to tray buzz on the ohmeter. Must be doing something wrong.
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 04:56 PM 6/24/2017, you wrote:
>
> Hi guys, been away from flying a while, and airplane mode and N77FE is a
> bit pissed off at beong ignored.
>
> Cant get my cdi to power up.
>
> I tried both my kx 170b and michel mx 170 in the tray. =C3=82 =C3=82 I p
ulled the
> cdi and the connector was loose, so fixed that.=C3=82 Probed for power.
=C3=82 Pin
> c on ki 211 is supposed to be 13.75 v input, no power there w nav radio o
n.
> =C3=82 I do get gs energize power at pin p when tuned to gs freq. =C3=82
=C3=82
>
> =C3=82 Pin 26 is power out from tray, probed from there to connector end
of cdi
> connector pin c and wire is connected. Continuity is solid.
>
> Does the tray connector jumper power to the cdi, or does the radio switch
> it?=C3=82 Im kinda baffled. =C3=82
>
> Page 2-13 shows what i think I have. =C3=82
>
> Thanks, Dave Leonard Super viking N77FE
>
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://
> www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Bendix-King/KX175B_IM.pdf&ved
> 0ahUKEwiSucHOuNfUAhWp64MKHfcCBQ0QFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNEMWUD78gQVdc-
> xgRjp70uLbwJ1bA
>
>
> The label "NAV SWITCHED 13.75VDC" says that this is
> indeed a power output pin controlled by the nav receiver's
> power switch. There is a Note 7 associated with this
> path:
>
>
> [image: Emacs!]
> . . . which tells us that this ouput is limited
> to 300 ma.
>
> Probing this pathway with the voltmeter should show
> bus voltage with the nav radio ON. This power
> comes from the radio and is switched internally
> to the radio. If the power is missing on TWO
> radios, then it seems likely that the disconnect
> is somewhere in the ship's wiring.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kx 170 b radio, ki211c indicator no power |
to ki 211c pin a
At 11:16 AM 6/25/2017, you wrote:
>Thanks Bob, that is where I was heading.=C2 But
>it seems odd that the wire pins to tray buzz on
>the ohmeter.=C2 Must be doing something wrong. =C2 =C2
Connectors captive to a slide-in tray can be problematic.
You may be wrestling with a pin engagement issue . . . and
if one path is coming up short, then there may be more.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | David Clarke / SoftComm system for sale |
A further reduction in inventory dictates that
I give up one of my two-station head-set/intercomm
systems.
I have the following to offer first to members of
the List:
DC H10-30 headset (mono) with new gel pads installed
DC H10-13x headset (stereo with active noise reduction)
with new gel pads installed.
SoftComm ACT-2T two station, portable intercomm (one of my
favorites).
Control Yoke press to talk cable.
Offer includes a zippered carry-bag (not shown) that holds one
head-set, intercom and cordage.
Cordage and general appearance is very good. New
batteries installed. ANR box modified for more robust
battery configuration (no spring-loaded holders). Will
ship with two extra, alkaline battery sets. See at:
http://tinyurl.com/yapnz577
Asking $300 for the system. If no takers
over the next few days, I'll split the offer into
component parts.
Email me directly please.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Enclosure For Batt Contactor and Bus Tie |
Hi All,
I am installing a bus tie contactor and a battery contactor in an
"enclosure" under the rear seat of a composite airplane and I am concerned
about the heat produced by these two devices.
This enclosure is a "box" of sorts that is constructed with foam core
composite material (good insulation properties) and the space is kinda small
(about 20" X 10" X 4") and it will not have any airflow whatsoever so I am
wondering how hot these two units could get when energized in this enclosed
location.
I do not intend to have the bus tie closed during flight so when airborne
only the battery contactor will be energized however during ground
operations I do intend on having both the bus tie and the battery tie closed
for maintenance purposes. I have already had them both humming however I
have not yet closed the lid to this box. If need be I could construct some
kind of cooling air scoop however I would prefer to keep the box fully
enclosed.IF.there would not be a fire hazard.
THANKS for your feedback and advice.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!? |
So.I left my battery charger connected to an Optima battery overnight on the
10 Amp charge position. In the immortal words of Homer Simpson "!!!DOH!!!"
The Optima battery can be installed in any position other than upside down
and my battery was installed on its side. Well in the morning, I noticed
that clear liquid was leaking out of the two small gray ports so I assume
that these ports are some kind of vent to release the internal pressure in
the instance where some DumbBass left the charger plugged in all night and
the battery overheated.
I felt the battery was not hot nor even warm however the liquid was
definitely dripping out a fair amount.
I thought that these things were supposed to be "spill proof" because they
are "gel filled". In the past I noticed that when in the battery charger is
in the 10 amp position the battery charger only puts out a voltage of about
13.0 volts so I would not have thought that it could cook a battery.
How can one (me) determine if the fluid/gel level of an Optima battery is
still adequate? I can weigh it and/or I can get it tested at the auto parts
store?
THANKS for your suggestions/experience/feed back!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | SOLD David Clarke / SoftComm system for sale SOLD |
At 03:44 PM 6/25/2017, you wrote:
>A further reduction in inventory dictates that
>I give up one of my two-station head-set/intercomm
>systems.
The audio system has sold. Thanks to all
who inquired!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!? |
At 05:39 PM 6/25/2017, you wrote:
>So=85I left my battery charger connected to an
>Optima battery overnight on the 10 Amp charge
>position. In the immortal words of Homer Simpson =93!!!DOH!!!=94
>
>The Optima battery can be installed in any
>position other than upside down and my battery
>was installed on its side. Well in the morning,
>I noticed that clear liquid was leaking out of
>the two small gray ports so I assume that these
>ports are some kind of vent to release the
>internal pressure in the instance where some
>DumbBass left the charger plugged in all night and the battery overheated.
>
>I felt the battery was not hot nor even warm
>however the liquid was definitely dripping out a fair amount.
>
>I thought that these things were supposed to be
>=93spill proof=94 because they are =93gel filled=94. In
>the past I noticed that when in the battery
>charger is in the 10 amp position the battery
>charger only puts out a voltage of about 13.0
>volts so I would not have thought that it could cook a battery.
The 13.0 volt observation seems valid . . . and certainly
not enough snort to cook an SVLA battery. Yet, here we are.
I would do a cranking load test on it first. Go to a battery store
and have them load it DOWN and HOLD at 9 volts for 15 seconds. At the
end of 15 seconds, note the current. A new battery of that genre would
probably dump 400-600A. This test will normally consume less than
10% of a battery's snort. Follow up with a cap check. Hook a 55W head
lamp to the battery and see how long it runs before the voltage drops
below 11.0 volts. Again, for a battery of that ilk, 8 to 10 hours
is healthy.
After the first test, put it on a known-good charger/maintainer
and repeat the test.
Now, even if it still performs electrically, I wouldn't
recommend using it for anything other than ground ops.
It's obviously compromised.
Optimas are jelly-roll cells with a rich heritage in
AGM development and marketing. I'm a bit surprised that
this thing leaked 'juice'.
Hmmm . . . found these tid-bits on the 'net
http://tinyurl.com/ya7lnv5u
http://tinyurl.com/yaxbbaxl
http://tinyurl.com/ydbpvo5z
http://tinyurl.com/y76kk7q9
Seems your experience is not unheard of . . .
What is the brand and model number of your battery charger?
I have found, disappointingly, that even the masters of
battery chargers stub their toe from time to time. I have
a 'beefy' automotive charger by Schumacher I bought at
Walmart a few years ago.
http://tinyurl.com/y7yrzlyk
I was evaluating a battery for Hawker-Beech that
was purported to be a new, 'carbon foam' device.
The sample I was working with was a 100A.h. group
31 truck battery. Needed something much larger than
my usual stable of battery charger-maintainers.
This thing was supposed to output charging profiles
tailored to flooded, gel and AGM batteries. Got to
watch the behavior during a dozen or more recharge
cycles on the test battery. Frankly, the behaviors
in each mode did not match conventional wisdom.
I've still got the charger. Used it on the truck
a few weeks ago to mitigate a dome-light-discharge
event. But in spite of the claims in literature, I
would not use this charger for anything but utility
recoveries . . . it's not a 'maintainer' in spite
of its apparent used of software.
It would be interesting to test your charger with
instrumentation to see if it might be responsible
for your battery's 'accident'.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!? |
> Yet, here we are.
Yup.THANKS Bob for the words of encouragement.
I betcha if I would have had the battery sitting straight up that the "gel"
would not have leaked out.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!?
At 05:39 PM 6/25/2017, you wrote:
So.I left my battery charger connected to an Optima battery overnight on the
10 Amp charge position. In the immortal words of Homer Simpson "!!!DOH!!!"
The Optima battery can be installed in any position other than upside down
and my battery was installed on its side. Well in the morning, I noticed
that clear liquid was leaking out of the two small gray ports so I assume
that these ports are some kind of vent to release the internal pressure in
the instance where some DumbBass left the charger plugged in all night and
the battery overheated.
I felt the battery was not hot nor even warm however the liquid was
definitely dripping out a fair amount.
I thought that these things were supposed to be "spill proof" because they
are "gel filled". In the past I noticed that when in the battery charger is
in the 10 amp position the battery charger only puts out a voltage of about
13.0 volts so I would not have thought that it could cook a battery.
The 13.0 volt observation seems valid . . . and certainly
not enough snort to cook an SVLA battery. Yet, here we are.
I would do a cranking load test on it first. Go to a battery store
and have them load it DOWN and HOLD at 9 volts for 15 seconds. At the
end of 15 seconds, note the current. A new battery of that genre would
probably dump 400-600A. This test will normally consume less than
10% of a battery's snort. Follow up with a cap check. Hook a 55W head
lamp to the battery and see how long it runs before the voltage drops
below 11.0 volts. Again, for a battery of that ilk, 8 to 10 hours
is healthy.
After the first test, put it on a known-good charger/maintainer
and repeat the test.
Now, even if it still performs electrically, I wouldn't
recommend using it for anything other than ground ops.
It's obviously compromised.
Optimas are jelly-roll cells with a rich heritage in
AGM development and marketing. I'm a bit surprised that
this thing leaked 'juice'.
Hmmm . . . found these tid-bits on the 'net
http://tinyurl.com/ya7lnv5u
http://tinyurl.com/yaxbbaxl
http://tinyurl.com/ydbpvo5z
http://tinyurl.com/y76kk7q9
Seems your experience is not unheard of . . .
What is the brand and model number of your battery charger?
I have found, disappointingly, that even the masters of
battery chargers stub their toe from time to time. I have
a 'beefy' automotive charger by Schumacher I bought at
Walmart a few years ago.
http://tinyurl.com/y7yrzlyk
I was evaluating a battery for Hawker-Beech that
was purported to be a new, 'carbon foam' device.
The sample I was working with was a 100A.h. group
31 truck battery. Needed something much larger than
my usual stable of battery charger-maintainers.
This thing was supposed to output charging profiles
tailored to flooded, gel and AGM batteries. Got to
watch the behavior during a dozen or more recharge
cycles on the test battery. Frankly, the behaviors
in each mode did not match conventional wisdom.
I've still got the charger. Used it on the truck
a few weeks ago to mitigate a dome-light-discharge
event. But in spite of the claims in literature, I
would not use this charger for anything but utility
recoveries . . . it's not a 'maintainer' in spite
of its apparent used of software.
It would be interesting to test your charger with
instrumentation to see if it might be responsible
for your battery's 'accident'.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Did I Fry My Optima Battery?!?!? |
At 10:03 AM 6/26/2017, you wrote:
> > Yet, here we are.
>
>Yup=85THANKS Bob for the words of encouragement.
>
>I betcha if I would have had the battery sitting
>straight up that the =93gel=94 would not have leaked out.
>..
>
Maybe . . . but I've been getting search hits on
Optima leaks that do not correlate with laying
the battery down.
Optima may well be suffering from acquisition creep
and often profound if not terminal degradation of value
for a product or service.
Three patents on jelly-roll cells are found at
http://tinyurl.com/y7p26p9l One of these dates
to 1943, 73 years ago. Roots of the Optima cells
take a genealogic side track when Gates Rubber
adapts the idea to the AGM technology with their
work Circa 1975. At this time, the contained liquid
in the cells was reduced to less than saturation
of the glass mat separators.
At this time, the cells were, like other SBLA/AGM
products, supposed to be 'leak proof'. Drive a
nail into them and no liquid comes out.
Gates got out of the battery business and their
product lines got scattered to the market. Hawker
Enersys was interested in the smaller, 2.5 a.h.
cells, Optima took on the larger cells. I see
that Enersys has expanded their Cyclon jelly-roll
line to include the larger, 25 a.h. cells.
http://tinyurl.com/yd9z6x89
The Optima line may well have spun off directly
from Gates . . . their operations spooled up
in Aurora Co, a short distance from the Gats
facilities in Colorado.
I understand they are owned by Johnson Controls
(who also used to do Gel Cells . . . maybe still
does) and the factory is moved to Mexico . . . not
necessarily a bad thing but it does give rise to
questions about why these products have become
'leakers'.
B&C offered the Gates 25 a.h. cells . . . I think
it was their first venture into AGM technolgy. They
had been offering Sonnenschein GELS for some time
previous to Gates AGM. I put an array of these cells
into the PAT-1 prototype about 1980. Unfortunately,
the airplane was lost with three souls aboard
during a demonstration flight for NASA. The Gates
25 a.h. cells proved problematic in aircraft . . . the
negative terminals were prone to cracking inside
the battery . . . the newer Enersys cells are, no
doubt, more robust.
In any case, leaking from the Optima products is
mystifying and surprising. I'll see if I can
find out more about it. In the mean time, it's
sure bet that your existing battery is not
flight worthy. Why did you choose so hefty a
battery?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RWhitt1245(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Solder for Thermocouple splices |
Can anyone suggest a specific silver solder product for use in soldering
thermocouple wire spices?
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder for Thermocouple splices |
"Easy-flo 45" from Handy and Harman works well.
Bob McC
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: RWhitt1245(at)aol.com
> Date: June 26, 2017 at 12:44 PM
>
> Can anyone suggest a specific silver solder product for use in soldering
> thermocouple wire spices?
>
> Ron
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Archer Antenna in RV4 |
Does anyone have experience installing an Archer Comm antenna in an RV4 wingtip?I'm
considering the Archer Model 1A and have concerns that it will fit properly.
ARCHER SPORT AIRCRAFT COM ANTENNA MODEL 1A
|
|
|
| | |
|
|
|
| |
ARCHER SPORT AIRCRAFT COM ANTENNA MODEL 1A
ARCHER SPORT AIRCRAFT COM ANTENNA MODEL 1A These antennas have been designed by
Bob Archer from Torrance, CA uti... | |
|
|
Thanks.
Jeff Bertsch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart Hutchison <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Archer Antenna in RV4 |
I bought one each side for the wing tips of my Rocket Jeff, then learned
that only one was practical. In the end, neither was used due to
building tip tanks, so both are available for sale.
Usually US$100+ each I believe, but I will part with one or other for
US$60 each plus shipping.
Cheers, Stu
> On 27 Jun 2017, at 23:36, Jeff Bertsch wrote:
>
> Does anyone have experience installing an Archer Comm antenna in an
RV4 wingtip?
> I'm considering the Archer Model 1A and have concerns that it will fit
properly.
>
> ARCHER SPORT AIRCRAFT COM ANTENNA MODEL 1A
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/archer_antenna1.php>
>
>
>
> ARCHER SPORT AIRCRAFT COM ANTENNA MODEL 1A
> ARCHER SPORT AIRCRAFT COM ANTENNA MODEL 1A These antennas have been
designed by Bob Archer from Torrance, CA uti...
> <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/archer_antenna1.php>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jeff Bertsch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
| From: | "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com> |
With Bob's prompting to move on to Plan B, I put together an Arduino-based IVOProp
"controller."
I bought an Arduino clone, a relay module, and a current sensing module, and wrote
a program to monitor the prop current. When the current goes above 9 Amps
for a sufficiently long time, the program opens the relay and shuts off the current.
The red and green LEDS are triggered to indicate the current flowing
and not flowing to the prop. The program leaves the relay open and the red LED
on for a few seconds so the pilot gets the message that a limit was reached.
I just ran the engine and put the prop through its paces, and the system seems
to work well. There might be additional tweaking to the code needed, but I think
it's pretty close to good.
I'll be happy to share the code and links to the components if anyone is interested.
--------
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470523#470523
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Master contactor catch diode failure |
What would be the root cause of this charred diode and wiring?
https://i.imgur.com/e3FcBgf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Sl9foF6.jpg
This is in a friend's RV-9A and the diode was wired (properly) across the master
contactor's coil. The wire runs to the master switch (split-rocker type) where
a ground is applied. Both the contactor and the diode were supplied by Van's
Aircraft.
http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1498576754-172-723&browse=electrical&product=master-sw
http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1498576754-172-723&browse=electrical&product=diodes
This incident happened the instant the master power was turned on. Could the
diode have failed in a shorted condition, vaporizing itself and the wire when
the switch applied a ground?
After replacing the diode and wiring, operation seems normal.
--
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
The most obvious answer is that the original diode was installed backwards.
Maybe the supplied "packaged" assembly from Vans was incorrectly assembled under
the heat shrink causing full battery voltage and hence current to forward bias
the diode leading to its action as a fuse. The new assemblies shown in your
photos leave no possible clue as to the direction the encapsulated diode is
oriented. The external red band is fine and dandy, but if the diode under the
shrink was accidentally reversed there is no way to know without "testing". I
would suggest your "test" proved conclusively it was incorrect.
Bob McC
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com>
> Date: June 27, 2017 at 2:55 PM
>
>
>
> What would be the root cause of this charred diode and wiring?
>
> https://i.imgur.com/e3FcBgf.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/Sl9foF6.jpg
>
> This is in a friend's RV-9A and the diode was wired (properly) across the
> master
> contactor's coil. The wire runs to the master switch (split-rocker type)
> where
> a ground is applied. Both the contactor and the diode were supplied by
> Van's
> Aircraft.
>
>
> http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1498576754-172-723&browse=electrical&product=master-sw
>
> http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1498576754-172-723&browse=electrical&product=diodes
>
> This incident happened the instant the master power was turned on. Could
> the
> diode have failed in a shorted condition, vaporizing itself and the wire
> when
> the switch applied a ground?
>
> After replacing the diode and wiring, operation seems normal.
>
> --
> Joe
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan <ryansoutham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Noisy radio system |
OK, here goes.
Let me start this by saying I have tried pretty much every trick in the boo
k to solve this issue and yes the unit is wired to a high standard with sep
arate earth to battery, RG400 antenna cable etc etc etc.
I have a Trig radio installed in a Fairchild F24 with 145hp Warner engine.
It is constantly breaking squelch even with the internal squelch wound righ
t up. I have improved it by a huge amount but it is still pretty bad and at
high RPM makes the radio essentially useless.
It is an unshielded ignition harness so this is a good portion of the probl
em but I wondered if anyone may have any other ideas. Oh, by the way, the n
oise is coming in via the antenna as it goes away when the antenna is disco
nnected.
Things that have improved considerably were, taking a ferrite ring and loop
ing the antenna cable through it 4 times. more doesn't help and less doesn'
t help. Also changed to automotive plugs and resistor caps (5kOhm) which he
lped.
I get the impression that if I up the resistance a little further by going
to resistor plugs or leads that we may solve the problem but I'm concerned
about loading the windings in the mag to much and burning them out, would r
unning 5kOhm resistor plugs or resistance leads load the mags too much?
I will get a reduction in spark quality which may be unacceptable and cause
fouling but what do you guys think, worth a shot.
Last parting shot. The owner did the antenna install and it is an internal
antenna surrounded by the steel tube fuselage and this probably isn't helpi
ng. Worth trying an external antenna, although difficult to do at this stag
e with a finished aeroplane (fabric), I may be able to fit to one of the wi
ng route fairings to get a halfway decent ground plane.
Cheers,
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
| From: | "jdubner" <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
Bob McC wrote:
> The most obvious answer is that the original diode was installed backwards.
That was my initial thought too but the aircraft had 29 hours TTSN with that configuration.
The RV-9A owner told me this incident happened on the first master switch actuation
after battery replacement due to a totally discharged battery. There was
a battery charger involved but the owner assured me it was always connected properly.
And the master contactor actuated, at least momentarily, because the
Dynon EFIS turned on (and continued to run on its internal battery).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470527#470527
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Archer Antenna in RV4 |
| From: | "jdubner" <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
> Does anyone have experience installing an Archer Comm antenna in an RV4 wingtip?
> I'm considering the Archer Model 1A and have concerns that it will fit properly.
Jeff, I have the Archer NAVantenna mounted in my RV-8A's wingtip, which I believe
is similar if not identical to that of the RV-4. So taking your question literally,
I would say it will fit OK.
However . . . you didn't ask but I advise against it because of the performance
hit of the mostly horizontally-oriented antenna while VHF com requires vertical
polarization.
When I ran out of space for vertically-polarized antennas on the bottom of my '8A,
I mounted one on the bottom of a wing. The ground plane is larger and there's
plenty of separation for multiple antennas.
--
Joe
--------
RV-8A
Independence, OR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470531#470531
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Archer Antenna in RV4 |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I would agree. I have one Archer Nav antenna in each wing tip to serve 2
navcoms. Performance is okay. While my -10 has big enough wing tips to
do a vertical com, I wouldn't. A friend put one in -7 wingtip and it was
good for maybe 20 miles until he had the plane painted with a metallic
paint. Performance dropped to under 10 miles, so he abandoned and put
antenna on a convenient wing inspection plate.
On 6/27/2017 2:40 PM, jdubner wrote:
>
>
>> Does anyone have experience installing an Archer Comm antenna in an RV4 wingtip?
>> I'm considering the Archer Model 1A and have concerns that it will fit properly.
>
> Jeff, I have the Archer NAVantenna mounted in my RV-8A's wingtip, which I believe
is similar if not identical to that of the RV-4. So taking your question
literally, I would say it will fit OK.
>
> However . . . you didn't ask but I advise against it because of the performance
hit of the mostly horizontally-oriented antenna while VHF com requires vertical
polarization.
>
> When I ran out of space for vertically-polarized antennas on the bottom of my
'8A, I mounted one on the bottom of a wing. The ground plane is larger and there's
plenty of separation for multiple antennas.
>
> --
> Joe
>
> --------
> RV-8A
> Independence, OR
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470531#470531
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
At 02:52 PM 6/27/2017, you wrote:
>The most obvious answer is that the original diode was installed
>backwards. Maybe the supplied "packaged" assembly from Vans was
>incorrectly assembled under the heat shrink causing full battery
>voltage and hence current to forward bias the diode leading to its
>action as a fuse. The new assemblies shown in your photos leave no
>possible clue as to the direction the encapsulated diode is
>oriented. The external red band is fine and dandy, but if the diode
>under the shrink was accidentally reversed there is no way to know
>without "testing". I would suggest your "test" proved conclusively
>it was incorrect.
Agreed . . . with one other possibility . . .
I have encountered plastic diodes that
were incorrectly marked. Band on the
wrong end. It's rare but I think I've
seen it a couple of times. Further,
they were a one-of event, not a 'batch'
problem.
I'm not sure this is possible but it's
certainly low probability given modern
manufacturing and grading techniques
for diodes. But these days, there are
diodes and then there are DIODES. Without
knowing the critter's pedigree, we'll never
know.
In any case, replacing the diode is the
permanent fix.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
At 01:37 PM 6/27/2017, you wrote:
>
>With Bob's prompting to move on to Plan B, I put together an
>Arduino-based IVOProp "controller."
>
>I bought an Arduino clone, a relay module, and a current sensing
>module, and wrote a program to monitor the prop current. When the
>current goes above 9 Amps for a sufficiently long time, the program
>opens the relay and shuts off the current. The red and green LEDS
>are triggered to indicate the current flowing and not flowing to the
>prop. The program leaves the relay open and the red LED on for a
>few seconds so the pilot gets the message that a limit was reached.
>
>I just ran the engine and put the prop through its paces, and the
>system seems to work well. There might be additional tweaking to
>the code needed, but I think it's pretty close to good.
GOOD for YOU!
>I'll be happy to share the code and links to the components if
>anyone is interested.
Yes, I'd be interested in seeing your work.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Noisy radio system |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Someone may correct me if wrong, but adding resistance to a circuit decreases the
current. Therefore adding resistance will decrease the load on magnetos.
An external antenna is a good idea. The ground plane does not necessarily have
to be sheet metal. A ground plane can be made using 6 or 8 radials of copper
tape or wire that are glued to the fabric.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470545#470545
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
| From: | "merlewagner2" <wagnermerle(at)gmail.com> |
I would also like to take a look at your setup. I am planning on using an IVO mag
prop with in flight adj. Was hoping to do just what you have already done.
Way ahead of me!!!!
Merle
> I'll be happy to share the code and links to the components if anyone is interested.
hmmm, seems I screwed up the quoting somehow..
--------
KC1DNJ
General Radiotelephone
Commercial SEL
A&P
Building scale P51
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470546#470546
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
How does one (me) check a diode when it is installed on the contactor?
I assume that you want to have the master switch off and use DC resistance.
Does it matter what polarity to connect the leads?
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
At 02:52 PM 6/27/2017, you wrote:
The most obvious answer is that the original diode was installed backwards.
Maybe the supplied "packaged" assembly from Vans was incorrectly assembled
under the heat shrink causing full battery voltage and hence current to
forward bias the diode leading to its action as a fuse. The new assemblies
shown in your photos leave no possible clue as to the direction the
encapsulated diode is oriented. The external red band is fine and dandy,
but if the diode under the shrink was accidentally reversed there is no way
to know without "testing". I would suggest your "test" proved conclusively
it was incorrect.
Agreed . . . with one other possibility . . .
I have encountered plastic diodes that
were incorrectly marked. Band on the
wrong end. It's rare but I think I've
seen it a couple of times. Further,
they were a one-of event, not a 'batch'
problem.
I'm not sure this is possible but it's
certainly low probability given modern
manufacturing and grading techniques
for diodes. But these days, there are
diodes and then there are DIODES. Without
knowing the critter's pedigree, we'll never
know.
In any case, replacing the diode is the
permanent fix.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
At 09:20 AM 6/28/2017, you wrote:
>How does one (me) check a diode when it is installed on the contactor?
Just unhook one end (the small terminal) and use
your ohmmeter function to test continuity through
the diode. One configuration will show SOME value
of resistance, reversing the leads will show
infinite resistance.
>I assume that you want to have the master switch off and use DC
>resistance. Does it matter what polarity to connect the leads?
You test BOTH ways . . . looking for basically
NO conduction one way (off scale high resistance)
and some value of resistance the other way . . .
the exact value unimportant as it will vary
from one ohmmeter to another.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
At 04:16 PM 6/27/2017, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob McC wrote:
> > The most obvious answer is that the original diode was installed backwards.
>
>That was my initial thought too but the aircraft had 29 hours TTSN
>with that configuration.
>
>The RV-9A owner told me this incident happened on the first master
>switch actuation after battery replacement due to a totally
>discharged battery.
THIS IS NOT GOOD . . . If the diode WAS good
and fried after battery replacement, then the
battery was hooked up BACKWARDS . . . This
fries the catch diode and potentially, lots
of other stuff.
Years ago, I used to recommend adding a fuse
in series with the battery master contactor
wire that runs off to the master switch.
When paired with a catch diode on the contactor
the diode shorts out reversed voltage to the
contactor preventing closure while the fuse
blows preventing wire damage . . . and perhaps
damage to the diode as well.
But it sounds like this event went on long
enough to open the diode, close the contactor
and to put battery energy onto the ship's bus . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
Thanks,
Also, how warm do contactors get when they are energized?
I have two contactors mounted in a well underneath the backseat of my
airplane. This well is about three inches deep 20 inches wide and 12
inches long and it's completely sealed with no cooling air and since it is
constructed of foam core fiberglass It is Well insulated and therefore none
of the heat can get conducted out of the airplane.
I felt them and the contactors do get warm but the question is how warm can
they get and do they need any cooling air? Inflight only one contactor will
be energized however on the ground during maintenance I will have both
contactors energized.
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP
Bill Hunter
On Jun 28, 2017 12:44 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 09:20 AM 6/28/2017, you wrote:
>
> How does one (me) check a diode when it is installed on the contactor?
>
>
> Just unhook one end (the small terminal) and use
> your ohmmeter function to test continuity through
> the diode. One configuration will show SOME value
> of resistance, reversing the leads will show
> infinite resistance.
>
>
> I assume that you want to have the master switch off and use DC
> resistance. Does it matter what polarity to connect the leads?
>
>
> You test BOTH ways . . . looking for basically
> NO conduction one way (off scale high resistance)
> and some value of resistance the other way . . .
> the exact value unimportant as it will vary
> from one ohmmeter to another.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
| From: | "kfav8r" <kfav8r(at)outlook.com> |
I'll get the info posted next week.
--------
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470559#470559
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
At 02:50 PM 6/28/2017, you wrote:
>Thanks,
>
>Also, how warm do contactors get when they are energized?
Too hot to touch but not hot enough to 'sizzle spit'
http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t
http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo
>I have two contactors mounted in a well
>underneath the backseat of my airplane.=C2 This
>well is about three inches deep 20 inches wide
>and 12 inches long and it's completely sealed
>with no cooling air and since it is constructed
>of foam core fiberglass It is Well insulated and
>therefore none of the heat can get conducted out of the airplane.
>
>I felt them and the contactors do get warm but
>the question is how warm can they get and do
>they need any cooling air? Inflight only one
>contactor will be energized however on the
>ground during maintenance I will have both contactors energized.
>
>THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP
Materials used in construction of these devices
is rated for operating at temperatures well in
excess of 100C . . . but of course, hotter than
you would want to touch.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop current limiter |
At 03:00 PM 6/28/2017, you wrote:
>
>I'll get the info posted next week.
This might be another opportunity for an open source
project. Once you've finely tuned the code, we can
poke it into chips for mounting on a dedicated
ecb . . . have you considered solid-state
switching as opposed to relay?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
Thanks Bob!!!
The next time I have them humming for two hours at room temperature I will
lick them to see if spit sizzles.
Thanks again,
Bill Hunter
On Jun 28, 2017 1:15 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 02:50 PM 6/28/2017, you wrote:
>
> Thanks,
>
> Also, how warm do contactors get when they are energized?
>
>
> Too hot to touch but not hot enough to 'sizzle spit'
>
> http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t
>
> http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo
>
>
> I have two contactors mounted in a well underneath the backseat of my
> airplane.=C3=82 This well is about three inches deep 20 inches wide and
12
> inches long and it's completely sealed with no cooling air and since it i
s
> constructed of foam core fiberglass It is Well insulated and therefore no
ne
> of the heat can get conducted out of the airplane.
>
> I felt them and the contactors do get warm but the question is how warm
> can they get and do they need any cooling air? Inflight only one contacto
r
> will be energized however on the ground during maintenance I will have bo
th
> contactors energized.
>
> THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP
>
>
> Materials used in construction of these devices
> is rated for operating at temperatures well in
> excess of 100C . . . but of course, hotter than
> you would want to touch.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Do be aware that the temp it will get a *lot* hotter in your sealed up
insulated box than it will sitting on your kitchen counter. I wouldn't
do what you're talking about, because I wouldn't want to melt my
aircraft in that area. Component life might be a secondary issue, in
this case (pardon the pun).
On 6/28/2017 3:48 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob!!!
>
> The next time I have them humming for two hours at room temperature I
> will lick them to see if spit sizzles.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Bill Hunter
>
> On Jun 28, 2017 1:15 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> >
> wrote:
>
> At 02:50 PM 6/28/2017, you wrote:
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Also, how warm do contactors get when they are energized?
>
> Too hot to touch but not hot enough to 'sizzle spit'
>
> http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t
>
> http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo
>
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo>
>> I have two contactors mounted in a well underneath the backseat
>> of my airplane. This well is about three inches deep 20 inches
>> wide and 12 inches long and it's completely sealed with no
>> cooling air and since it is constructed of foam core fiberglass
>> It is Well insulated and therefore none of the heat can get
>> conducted out of the airplane.
>>
>> I felt them and the contactors do get warm but the question is
>> how warm can they get and do they need any cooling air? Inflight
>> only one contactor will be energized however on the ground during
>> maintenance I will have both contactors energized.
>>
>> THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP
>
> Materials used in construction of these devices
> is rated for operating at temperatures well in
> excess of 100C . . . but of course, hotter than
> you would want to touch.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I agree with Charlie. The heat given off by a fire (caused by hot contactors)
will be a whole lot hotter than the heat given off by contactors exposed to circulating
air. What is the purpose of an insulated box?
At what temperature will the diode start conducting in the reverse direction?
Nobody knows how hot it will get inside of the box because it depends on several
factors: size of box, how well it is sealed, insulating properties of the
box, ambient air temperature, wattage of the contactor, length of time contactor
is energized.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470566#470566
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
I appreciate everyone's opinions and suggestions!!!
The airplane is a Velocity (pusher) so it is constructed of fiberglass foam
sandwich panels and I was trying to move as much of the heavy electrical
cables aft closer to the engine so I placed these components under the rear
bench seat. The rear seat "pedestal" (support structure) is a fiberglass
box integral with the fuselage also constructed with fiberglass foam
sandwich panels that equate to an "enclosed box".
I thought that this was an "elegant solution" to utilize this empty space
as an electrical equipment box however I didn't really think about the BTU
output of these contactors.
I guess I could cut some vent openings into the pedestal and that would
introduce some cabin ambient air into the box (four feet away from the
heater floor vents) however this would not be forced air ventilation but
still much better than an enclosed, sealed, and very insulated box.
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
On Jun 28, 2017 5:37 PM, "user9253" wrote:
>
> I agree with Charlie. The heat given off by a fire (caused by hot
> contactors) will be a whole lot hotter than the heat given off by
> contactors exposed to circulating air. What is the purpose of an insulated
> box?
> At what temperature will the diode start conducting in the reverse
> direction? Nobody knows how hot it will get inside of the box because it
> depends on several factors: size of box, how well it is sealed, insulating
> properties of the box, ambient air temperature, wattage of the contactor,
> length of time contactor is energized.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470566#470566
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
I would put the battery contactor as close to the battery as possible and
the starter contactor on thd engine side of the firewall. This is how the
RV 10 is done, battery in rear battery contactor inches away and starter
contactor on the front of the firewall. I realize that your are building a
pusher but this will work fine. This also keeps the heay generating
contactors out in the open and seperated from each other.
On Jun 28, 2017 18:37, "William Hunter" wrote:
> I appreciate everyone's opinions and suggestions!!!
>
> The airplane is a Velocity (pusher) so it is constructed of fiberglass
> foam sandwich panels and I was trying to move as much of the heavy
> electrical cables aft closer to the engine so I placed these components
> under the rear bench seat. The rear seat "pedestal" (support structure) is
> a fiberglass box integral with the fuselage also constructed with
> fiberglass foam sandwich panels that equate to an "enclosed box".
>
> I thought that this was an "elegant solution" to utilize this empty space
> as an electrical equipment box however I didn't really think about the BTU
> output of these contactors.
>
> I guess I could cut some vent openings into the pedestal and that would
> introduce some cabin ambient air into the box (four feet away from the
> heater floor vents) however this would not be forced air ventilation but
> still much better than an enclosed, sealed, and very insulated box.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Hunter
> On Jun 28, 2017 5:37 PM, "user9253" wrote:
>
>>
>> I agree with Charlie. The heat given off by a fire (caused by hot
>> contactors) will be a whole lot hotter than the heat given off by
>> contactors exposed to circulating air. What is the purpose of an insulated
>> box?
>> At what temperature will the diode start conducting in the reverse
>> direction? Nobody knows how hot it will get inside of the box because it
>> depends on several factors: size of box, how well it is sealed, insulating
>> properties of the box, ambient air temperature, wattage of the contactor,
>> length of time contactor is energized.
>>
>> --------
>> Joe Gores
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470566#470566
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -
>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
>> Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ===================================
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
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>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
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>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
At 09:36 PM 6/28/2017, you wrote:
>I would put the battery contactor as close to the battery as
>possible and the starter contactor on thd engine side of the
>firewall. This is how the RV 10 is done, battery in rear battery
>contactor inches away and starter contactor on the front of the
>firewall. I realize that your are building a pusher but this will
>work fine. This also keeps the heay generating contactors out in the
>open and seperated from each other.
I like that . . .
Starter contactors on firewall become a tie-point
for the altenrator's b-lead to tie into the fat-wire
system. Battery contactors are generally only
inches away from Battery(+).
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
I am using your Z-14 dual alternator and dual battery design with the batte
ries under the pilot and copilot seats, battery contactor within 6 inches o
f battery.=C2- The crossover contactor and starter contactor on firewall
with 2 inch crossover connection to starter contactor.=C2- Alternator B-l
eads connect to crossover input=C2-and starter input=C2-lead.=C2- Ove
rvoltage connections just before connection to contactors.=C2- Any issues
you can foresee?
Bob Reed
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master contactor catch diode failure
At 09:36 PM 6/28/2017, you wrote:
I would put the batterycontactor as close to the battery as possible and th
e starter contactoron thd engine side of the firewall. This is how the RV 1
0 is done,battery in rear battery contactor inches away and starter contact
or onthe front of the firewall. I realize that your are building a pusher b
utthis will work fine. This also keeps the heay generating contactors outin
the open and seperated from each other.
=C2- I like that . . .
=C2- Starter contactors on firewall become atie-point
=C2- for the altenrator's b-lead to tie into the fat-wire
=C2- system. Battery contactors are generally only
=C2- inches away from Battery(+).
=C2- Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master contactor catch diode failure |
At 08:56 AM 6/29/2017, you wrote:
>I am using your Z-14 dual alternator and dual battery design with
>the batteries under the pilot and copilot seats, battery contactor
>within 6 inches of battery.
Okay
> The crossover contactor and starter contactor on firewall with 2
> inch crossover connection to starter contactor.
Okay
>Alternator B-leads connect to crossover input and starter input lead.
Okay
May 21, 2017 - June 29, 2017
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-nx