AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-od
October 25, 2017 - December 05, 2017
0/60/120/180/240/300 degrees as the line of longitude runs.
John
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 3:46 PM, David Saylor wrote:
> I'm planning to install a new ELT. It comes with a "shark fin" antenna
> that incorporates the 406 antenna and the antenna for the internal GPS. It
> has no 121.5 capability. It has a metal base plate, which I thought was
> sufficient for higher frequencies.
>
> However, the installation instructions call for a ground plane of at least
> 120 square inches, and preferably 300 square inches.
>
> Am I missing something? Why would an antenna operating at such high
> frequencies need such a large ground plane? Isn't the rule that the radius
> of the ground plane should match the length of the antenna?
>
> --Dave
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <mike(at)vision499.com> |
| Subject: | LOM Magneto and Shower of Sparks on Z-18 |
I have LOM engine and have a few questions regarding Z-18
What purpose does the filter F526.910-03 serve, is there anything else
available that will serve the same purpose if it is an essential item?
The Magneto's that are on my engine do not have a retard terminal as shown
in the Shower of sparks article, is the LOM magneto different?
I have the starting vibrator LUN 2231 as described on Z-18, should I wire it
into the single terminal on the Magneto?
Thanks
Mike
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Bench tester to simulate an alternator |
Hi,
Does anyone have a recommendation for a bench tester to see how lifepo4
batteries behave during an overvoltage event? Thinking about buying
various brands of lifepo4 batteries and subjecting them to some overvoltage
to see how they handle it. For science, of course.
Thanks,
Mickey
http://rv8.ch/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 406 ground plane |
OK, 120 it is. Thanks again Aeroelectricians!
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 05:46 PM 10/25/2017, you wrote:
>
> I'm planning to install a new ELT.=C3=82 It comes with a "shark fin" ant
enna
> that incorporates the 406 antenna and the antenna for the internal GPS.
=C3=82
> It has no 121.5 capability.=C3=82 It has a metal base plate, which I tho
ught
> was sufficient for higher frequencies.
>
> However, the installation instructions call for a ground plane of at leas
t
> 120 square inches, and preferably 300 square inches.
>
> Am I missing something?=C3=82 Why would an antenna operating at such hig
h
> frequencies need such a large ground plane?=C3=82 Isn't the rule that th
e
> radius of the ground plane should match the length of the antenna?
>
> --Dave
>
>
> The 1/4 wave ground plane at the lowest frequency of
> interest is 300/406 meters = 0.74M x 39.36 in/M x 0.25
> yields a
>
> *radius of 7.25" * 7.25 (squared) x 3.1416 = 166 square inches . . .
> which
> meets the "120 mininum".
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bench tester to simulate an alternator |
At 08:13 AM 10/26/2017, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone have a recommendation for a bench
>tester to see how lifepo4 batteries behave
>during an overvoltage event?=C2 Thinking about
>buying various brands of lifepo4 batteries and
>subjecting them to some overvoltage to see how
>they handle it.=C2 For science, of course.
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
><http://rv8.ch/>http://rv8.ch/
Sure, a beefy constant V, constant I power supply is the
tool of choice for output currents of 50 amps or so.
Supplies large enough to emulate runaway alternators
are getting harder to find.
I've had one of these on my bench for about 15 years
http://tinyurl.com/yaab7r95
a more modern device might be more to liking
http://tinyurl.com/y82h9vmm
Actually, since you're emulating a runaway
alternator, perhaps tight control over voltage
is unnecessary. You just need a current source
with an open circuit voltage substantially
greater than the battery.
Perhaps a couple of 24v, 20A supplies in parallel
http://tinyurl.com/y7yj2468
You could rig an array of paralleled
light bulbs with switches to serve as an
adjustable, power resistor to give some
control over current to the battery. Alternatively,
you can buy 50w power resistors really cheap
off banggood.com
Here's an exemplar switched resistor load bank I built
for a customer
Emacs!
Resistors are mounted on 1/8 alum plates and force
air cooled. The little collection of parts in the
lower left corner are a zero-to-max variable load
used in combination with switches to 'dial in' what
ever load you wish to run at.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LOM Magneto and Shower of Sparks on Z-18 |
>I have LOM engine and have a few questions regarding Z-18
>
>What purpose does the filter F526.910-03 serve, is there anything
>else available that will serve the same purpose if it is an essential item?
>
> Those are probably a 'generic' magneto p-lead filter. Leave
> these off until you know you need them. They're easy to add
> if you discover magneto noise in the radios.
>
>The Magneto's that are on my engine do not have a retard terminal as
>shown in the Shower of sparks article, is the LOM magneto different?
>
> Single point magnetos can use vibrator-enhanced
> cranking performance if they are fitted with
> IMPULSE couplers . . . which have the same effect
> as a set of delayed points.
>
>I have the starting vibrator LUN 2231 as described on Z-18, should I
>wire it into the single terminal on the Magneto?
>
> Yes, wire as as shown in Z18.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Bench tester to simulate an alternator |
> ...
>
> Actually, since you're emulating a runaway
> alternator, perhaps tight control over voltage
> is unnecessary. You just need a current source
> with an open circuit voltage substantially
> greater than the battery.
>
> Perhaps a couple of 24v, 20A supplies in parallel
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y7yj2468
>
>
Great idea - I think I can find plenty of these laying in our scrap server
pile - thanks a bunch!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
| From: | "jrevens" <jrevens(at)comcast.net> |
Can someone on this list tell me definitively how the Rotax/Ducati regulator/rectifier
as used with the 912 series engines actually works? There is so much
conflicting info on the internet about it. I don't believe it is a shunt or series
type, and might be a switching type regulator, but I'd like to know for
sure just to educate myself. I've read so many comments from folks who state emphatically
that it is this or that, but there is only one correct answer of course.
Also, I know that many of the frequent failures of these units are being
attributed to excess temperature by many. Now I recently read that these units
actually create more heat when operating with a small electrical load on the
system versus fully loaded closer to the maximum rating. Others say just the
opposite. I know that there are many contributors to this forum who really
know what they are talking about, and I sure would appreciate knowing the actual
facts.
In the same vein, I was wondering if Bob N. or anyone else ever fully investigated
or tested the Silent Hektik unit. I was able to get one from a friend in
Europe and I'm going to use it on my new Kitfox. It's a very nice looking piece.
Thanks in advance for any information or comments relating to these questions.
--------
John Evens
Thorp T-18 N71JE (built & flying)
Kitfox SS7 N27JE (building)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473903#473903
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> |
I attach a pdf presuming to depict R/R principle of operation.
I await (dis)agreement.
I hope that will help.
Jan de Jong
On 10/28/2017 6:30 AM, jrevens wrote:
>
> Can someone on this list tell me definitively how the Rotax/Ducati regulator/rectifier
as used with the 912 series engines actually works? There is so much
conflicting info on the internet about it. I don't believe it is a shunt or
series type, and might be a switching type regulator, but I'd like to know for
sure just to educate myself. I've read so many comments from folks who state
emphatically that it is this or that, but there is only one correct answer of
course. Also, I know that many of the frequent failures of these units are being
attributed to excess temperature by many. Now I recently read that these
units actually create more heat when operating with a small electrical load on
the system versus fully loaded closer to the maximum rating. Others say just
the opposite. I know that there are many contributors to this forum who really
know what they are talking about, and I sure would appreciate knowing the actual
facts.
>
> In the same vein, I was wondering if Bob N. or anyone else ever fully investigated
or tested the Silent Hektik unit. I was able to get one from a friend in
Europe and I'm going to use it on my new Kitfox. It's a very nice looking piece.
>
> Thanks in advance for any information or comments relating to these questions.
>
> --------
> John Evens
> Thorp T-18 N71JE (built & flying)
> Kitfox SS7 N27JE (building)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 28/10/2017 06:30, jrevens a crit :
/
> Also, I know that many of the frequent failures
> of these units are being attributed to excess temperature by many. Now
> I recently read that these units actually create more heat when
> operating with a small electrical load on the system versus fully
> loaded closer to the maximum rating. Others say just the opposite./
Hi John,
FWIW, here is a brief article on what we found when conducting an actual
lab study of the Rotax and Schicke GR4 voltage R/R during the build of
our project some 14 years ago.
I drew the schematics after opening a couple of failed Rotax regulators.
My friend Jerome had to run some component on an industrial bench to
determine their characteristics.
http://contrails.free.fr/elec_ducati_en.php
My buddy's students also conducted a thermal study of the regulator.
Their - unpublished- 48 page report is only in French, though.
Hop this helps,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Pengilly" <Peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax 914 TCU interface |
Does anyone have any experience with the Rotax 914 Turbo Control Unit
interface app?
I know the TCU has the on-board adapter and a straight RS232 interface lead
will work.
Where is the interface software obtained from?
The TCU in question is flashing the yellow light, meaning an airbox/throttle
position sensor is broken/disconnected.
Apparently this app will indicate which sensor to look at.
Is the software straight forward to use?
Thanks in advance,
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
At 04:06 AM 10/28/2017, you wrote:
>I attach a pdf presuming to depict R/R principle of operation.
>I await (dis)agreement.
>I hope that will help.
Here's a real schematic to go with it . . .
http://tinyurl.com/ybvvwy9s
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
My RV-12 with a Rotax 912ULS came with the Ducati rectifier/regulator. The Ducati
is switching type regulator. It obeys ohm's law. The more current that flows,
the warmer it gets. Mike Miller is very knowledgeable about the Ducati.
He has posted on VansAirforce and also on this website, if I remember right.
There are different opinions about why the Ducati fails including heat, poor
thermal design, and poor manufacturing practices.
I and others have had success using a lawnmower regulator. Search eBay for AM101406,
or MIA881279, or JDR1406. No matter what brand regulator is installed,
keep it cool and mount it using heat conductive paste.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473912#473912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
Joe,
Regarding your statement:
"No matter what brand regulator is installed, keep it cool and mount it
using heat conductive paste"
Does that apply to the Ducati?
I ask because mine does not have a metal back. The backside of mine is that
potting material, and it is set back from the case by almost 1/16". The
only thing making contact are the tiny ears with the mounting holes.
Ken
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 5:53 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> My RV-12 with a Rotax 912ULS came with the Ducati rectifier/regulator.
> The Ducati is switching type regulator. It obeys ohm's law. The more
> current that flows, the warmer it gets. Mike Miller is very knowledgeable
> about the Ducati. He has posted on VansAirforce and also on this website,
> if I remember right. There are different opinions about why the Ducati
> fails including heat, poor thermal design, and poor manufacturing practices.
> I and others have had success using a lawnmower regulator. Search eBay
> for AM101406, or MIA881279, or JDR1406. No matter what brand regulator is
> installed, keep it cool and mount it using heat conductive paste.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473912#473912
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Yeah, the small mounting contact area will not conduct much heat. But even so,
every little bit helps. Use heat conductive grease. A shroud with attached
blast tube will help also.
You might already have thermal grease for spark plug threads.
Below is a quote from Jim Weir.
> go down to the drugstore and get a small tube of that white stuff you rub on
your nose in the summertime (zinc oxide). It isn't the BEST thermal conductor
you can find, but it will do a fine job in most instances.
A wise man once said that anything will conduct heat better than air. You do
not have to buy the expensive stuff containing silver.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473915#473915
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/reg_shroud_185.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
Eric, et al.
Now, I have written a first attempt at the software for this. It uses 220 instructions,
9 bytes of RAM, and two bytes of non-volatile memory.
Its coded for the 16f18323, which costs about $1. All 14-pin PICs use pretty much
the same pinout, as far as I can tell.
Pinout as it stands is
A0 - right button - momentary short to ground
A1 - left button - momentary short to ground
A4,5, C0-5 video selects, active low
The pins can change easily, on this PIC theyre all equivalent, except I thought
it best not to use A3 as thats Vpp which goes to something high for ICSP.
If you want active high for the video select we can do that too, but that means
we cant hack about with bit-oring the outputs, as Bob discussed.
Operation:
Right button short push (<1 sec): advance to next camera and stop sequencing
Right button long push (>1 sec): advance to next camera and continue automatic
sequencing forward
Left button short push: previous camera and stop sequencing
Left button long push: previous camera and automatic sequence in reverse
If power is applied with the left button held down:
Left button: reduce camera count by 1
Right button: increase camera count by 1
If power is applied with the right button held down:
Left button: decrease sequence delay by one second (to a maximum of 1 seconds,
wraps around to 16 seconds)
Right button: increase sequence delay by one second (to a maximum of 16 seconds,
wraps around to 1 second)
If power button is applied with both buttons held down:
Reset to 4 cameras, and 3 second sequence period
I have to check if the EEPROM memory can be programmed along with the code.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Alec, I think my last post on this subject (on Fri 10/20) must not have been echoed
out via email, as it drew no reply at the time.
To sum it up, I found another, better option for the video switch IC. That was
the CD4051B, but I've since found an even better one. The CD74HC4051E has high
bandwidth, is a true 8:1 mux in a single IC instead of two 4-channel switches,
and it requires only 3 control lines to select one of 8 inputs.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd74hc4051.pdf
Since just 3 control lines are used, an 8-pin PIC is all we need, so I went back
to the PIC12F683. For ease of layout, the pin assignments work best like this:
1: Vdd
2: Control B
3: Control A
4: Vpp
5: Control C
6: Switch (Left) / ICSPCLK
7: Switch (Right) / ICSPDAT
8: Vss
With the CD74HC4051E and PIC12F683, I was just able to make everything fit in the
space of a DB-25 backshell I found on Digi-Key (not necessarily the biggest
one, but the only one I could find with a drawing that shows interior dimensions)...
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/norcomp-inc/983-025-010R031/925PE-ND/858537
To save a bit of space, I used a two-position male pin header instead of a tactile
switch for the duplicate left switch on the board. It can be closed with
one of these little shorting jumpers...
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/sullins-connector-solutions/SPC02SYAN/S9001-ND/76375
I hope it isn't a big pain to alter the code for different PICs. I'm sorry you
didn't see my earlier post -- it's the last one in this thread...
http://forum.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16767494
For some reason I don't understand, the Matronics server has split this discussion
into more than a dozen separate threads, some with just one or two posts.
I emailed Matt Dralle about it, but he must be away or busy, as he didn't reply.
Bob, I presume you must have missed my post last week also. I asked about the
DB-25 backshell you posted a picture of. Do you have a part number so I can get
a dimensioned drawing, or do you know the interior dimensions? It looks like
it might be bigger than the one I found, and a bit more room for video signal
trace routing would be welcome.
Cheers,
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473918#473918
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote:
> I have to check if the EEPROM memory can be programmed along with the code.
I would be surprised if it isn't. The PICAXE chips I've played around with are
based on PICs, and their EEPROMs are loadable during programming. Of course,
that might be a function of the PICAXE bootloader and not a native capability
of the bare silicon...
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473919#473919
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 TCU interface |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 28/10/2017 13:27, Peter Pengilly a crit :
/
>
> /Does anyone have any experience with the Rotax 914 Turbo Control Unit
> interface app?/
>
> /I know the TCU has the on-board adapter and a straight RS232
> interface lead will work./
>
> /Where is the interface software obtained from?/
>
Hi Peter,
Have you tried this ?
http://www.flyrotax.com/services/technical-documentation.html ?
Also some info here
http://www.rotax-owner.com/en/rotax-blog/item/45-64-bit-tlr
Your computer must have a genuine Series port.
>
> //
>
> /The TCU in question is flashing the yellow light, meaning an
> airbox/throttle position sensor is broken/disconnected./
>
> /Apparently this app will indicate which sensor to look at./
>
> //
>
> /Is the software straight forward to use?/
>
The software is a bit crude, but it works, some basic info is available
in the Rotax Installation Manual.
We had some issues last year, and zeroed in on the wastegate binding on
power on due to lead deposits.
Hope this helps,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
Le 28/10/2017 20:48, user9253 a crit :
>
> Yeah, the small mounting contact area will not conduct much heat. But even so,
every little bit helps. Use heat conductive grease. A shroud with attached
blast tube will help also.
>
Hi all,
You can also use a computer fan attached to the Voltage R/R.
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Easley" <mikeeasley(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | CB and AWG for Garmin Pitot Tube AOA |
I'm replacing my standard heated pitot tube with the Garmin
heated/unregulated pitot tube/AOA. My existing wiring is 15A CB, 14 AWG,
12V system. That's based on the 100W pitot tube heater, so 8A. Garmin
wants a 20A CB and 10 AWG based on the length of the run, p.61 of the G3X
Install PDF. On p. 33, Garmin gives some amperages at different
temperatures, 12A @ -40C, 9.25A @ 0C, 7.3A @50C, 5.85A @ 100C and 4.36A @
175C. It's labeled "Initial Current Draw vs Probe Temperature".
So my question is do I really need to run 10 AWG wire and use a 20A CB with
this pitot tube? It seems like the tube might pull more than 8A briefly
during warmup when it's really cold, but then it will be at or below 8A once
it's warm to the touch. Due to the voltage drop at 12A it might take a few
more seconds to warm up. I'm thinking my existing wiring is adequate for
the new pitot tube.
Thanks for the help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
| From: | "kenryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks. I will probably sand the rough casting smooth and flat (at the mounting
ears) and use the paste. I've got some temp monitoring strips so I'll determine
how hot things get and then make a decision on dedicated cooling air. I will
only be using under 5 amps under normal circumstances so I'm hoping the thing
lasts.
Sidenote: I have a German friend who is an avid aviation enthusiast and the last
time he went over there he tried to get me a Silent-Hektik regulator. Unfortunately
the company was non-responsive to his telephone calls. They never answered
their phone nor returned his messages.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473933#473933
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CB and AWG for Garmin Pitot Tube AOA |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I agree with you.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473934#473934
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CB and AWG for Garmin Pitot Tube AOA |
>I'm replacing my standard heated pitot tube with the Garmin
>heated/unregulated pitot tube/AOA. My existing wiring is 15A CB, 14
>AWG, 12V system. That's based on the 100W pitot tube heater, so
>8A. Garmin wants a 20A CB and 10 AWG based on the length of the
>run, p.61 of the G3X Install PDF. On p. 33, Garmin gives some
>amperages at different temperatures, 12A @ -40C, 9.25A @ 0C, 7.3A
>@50C, 5.85A @ 100C and 4.36A @ 175C. It's labeled "Initial Current
>Draw vs Probe Temperature".
>
>So my question is do I really need to run 10 AWG wire and use a 20A
>CB with this pitot tube? It seems like the tube might pull more
>than 8A briefly during warmup when it's really cold, but then it
>will be at or below 8A once it's warm to the touch. Due to the
>voltage drop at 12A it might take a few more seconds to warm
>up. I'm thinking my existing wiring is adequate for the new pitot tube.
>
>Thanks for the help.
>
> Pitot tube heaters have a very strong, negative
> temperature coefficient. See:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/y78oc7z3
>
> Furhter, the warm-up time constant can be pretty
> slow . . . 20 seconds or more. Hence, breaker
> and wiring sizes for pitot tubes might seem
> overly conservative.
>
> Having said that, the words you quoted from
> the Garmin manual seem quite clear. A cold
> start from -40C (a temperature I hope you
> never have to fly in), the rated peak current
> is 12A, well inside the operating enevelope
> for your 15A/12AWG configuration.
>
> I think your risks for leaving it as-is are
> low. BTW, 8Amps at 12v is 100 watts . . . under
> that steady state condtion, the tube will be
> considerably hotter than 'warm to touch'.
>
> Keep in mind that pitot tubes are supposed to
> shed accumulated ice at altitude (sub zero
> temps)while being 'forced air cooled' by
> TAS. A pitot tube on a Beechjet cruising
> 41K feet will have a clear air surface temperature
> of over 100C!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
>>I hope it isn't a big pain to alter the code for different PICs.
No problem. 201 instructions, now, and still 9 bytes of data. So you saved 19 instructions
by changing IC.
Ive run it through PICSIM as best I can; hardware would be the next step. Unfortunately
I dont have any trash PCBs for 8-pin PICs.
On Oct 28, 2017, at 8:03 PM, Eric Page wrote:
Alec, I think my last post on this subject (on Fri 10/20) must not have been echoed
out via email, as it drew no reply at the time.
To sum it up, I found another, better option for the video switch IC. That was
the CD4051B, but I've since found an even better one. The CD74HC4051E has high
bandwidth, is a true 8:1 mux in a single IC instead of two 4-channel switches,
and it requires only 3 control lines to select one of 8 inputs.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd74hc4051.pdf
Since just 3 control lines are used, an 8-pin PIC is all we need, so I went back
to the PIC12F683. For ease of layout, the pin assignments work best like this:
1: Vdd
2: Control B
3: Control A
4: Vpp
5: Control C
6: Switch (Left) / ICSPCLK
7: Switch (Right) / ICSPDAT
8: Vss
With the CD74HC4051E and PIC12F683, I was just able to make everything fit in the
space of a DB-25 backshell I found on Digi-Key (not necessarily the biggest
one, but the only one I could find with a drawing that shows interior dimensions)...
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/norcomp-inc/983-025-010R031/925PE-ND/858537
To save a bit of space, I used a two-position male pin header instead of a tactile
switch for the duplicate left switch on the board. It can be closed with
one of these little shorting jumpers...
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/sullins-connector-solutions/SPC02SYAN/S9001-ND/76375
I hope it isn't a big pain to alter the code for different PICs. I'm sorry you
didn't see my earlier post -- it's the last one in this thread...
http://forum.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16767494
For some reason I don't understand, the Matronics server has split this discussion
into more than a dozen separate threads, some with just one or two posts.
I emailed Matt Dralle about it, but he must be away or busy, as he didn't reply.
Bob, I presume you must have missed my post last week also. I asked about the
DB-25 backshell you posted a picture of. Do you have a part number so I can get
a dimensioned drawing, or do you know the interior dimensions? It looks like
it might be bigger than the one I found, and a bit more room for video signal
trace routing would be welcome.
Cheers,
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473918#473918
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Stearns <steve(at)tomasara.com> |
| Subject: | Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... |
Greetings all,
Here's an odd one... My O235 powered Longeze use a vintage externally
regulated 40A Toyota alternator paired with a no-name after-market
"Ford-style" regulator. (see attached pic):
I've got it wired in the (Aeroelectric) traditional way with an overvoltage
crowbar (visible in the picture) and a 5A breaker on the field winding.
Undervoltage is redundantly apparent via a traditional Westach voltmeter
and A Perihilion low-voltage indicator. All the wiring (which I have yet
to re-inspect) has lots of strain-relief, all PIDG connectors etc.
Nonetheless, today I observed that when I pull high positive G's, the
alternator drops out (low-voltage light illuminates, voltmeter shows ~12.5
volts or so) but no excess current was observed on load meter (I didn't
*specifically* check it so I might have missed the details here... But it
is located adjacent to the voltmeter so I *might* have noticed something
odd if present, or I might not have - remember, I was in the middle of
pulling Gs...). I've been flying it, as wired for years but haven't done
much pulling Gs before so I don't know if this behavior is new or not...
Of course I'll be double checking connections etc. but I'm wondering if
it's possible that the ford-style regulator I installed could be G
sensitive? I can't image it but thought I would ask...
Thanks for any insights!
Steve Stearns
Longeze N45FC
Boulder/Longmont CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... |
At 06:52 PM 10/29/2017, you wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>Here's an odd one...=C2 My O235 powered Longeze
>use a vintage externally regulated 40A Toyota
>alternator paired with a no-name after-market
>"Ford-style" regulator. (see attached pic):
>
>I've got it wired in the (Aeroelectric)
>traditional way with an overvoltage crowbar
>(visible in the picture) and a 5A breaker on the
>field winding.=C2 Undervoltage is redundantly
>apparent via a traditional Westach voltmeter and
>A Perihilion low-voltage indicator.=C2 All the
>wiring (which I have yet to re-inspect) has lots
>of strain-relief, all PIDG connectors etc.
>
>Nonetheless, today I observed that when I pull
>high positive G's, the alternator drops out
>(low-voltage light illuminates, voltmeter shows
>~12.5 volts or so) but no excess current was
>observed on load meter (I didn't *specifically*
>check=C2 it so I might have missed the details
>here... But it is located adjacent to the
>voltmeter so I *might* have noticed something
>odd if present, or I might not have - remember,
>I was in the middle of pulling Gs...).=C2 I've
>been flying it, as wired for years but haven't
>done much pulling Gs before so I don't know if this behavior is new or
not...
>
>Of course I'll be double checking connections
>etc. but I'm wondering if it's possible that the
>ford-style regulator I installed could be G
>sensitive?=C2 I can't image it but thought I would ask...
No, but alternator brushes are. They are held
against a slip ring with springs that don't
want to be too aggressive . . . they're relatively
soft carbon on soft copper.
If you could monitor output voltage from the
regulator's field terminal while duplicating
the event, I suspect you'll see regulator
voltage go UP while alternator output is going
down. I.e. the regulator may be screaming
at an alternator that isn't listening.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote:
> 201 instructions, now, and still 9 bytes of data. So you saved 19 instructions
by changing IC.
>
> Ive run it through PICSIM as best I can; hardware would be the next step. Unfortunately
I dont have any trash PCBs for 8-pin PICs.
Beauty!
I've got the schematic (PDF attached) and a fist pass at the board layout complete.
I exchanged a few questions/answers with a TI engineer about using the CD74HC4051E,
and he told me the main "gotcha" with the part is applying a signal to an
input before the IC is powered up. Apparently there's a path from the inputs
to Vdd until the internal FETs are properly biased. To eliminate this possibility,
I added a small circuit (bottom right corner of the schematic) consisting
of a power-on reset (POR) IC and a couple of MOSFETs. The POR watches the
+5V rail, and as soon as 1V is reached it begins to hold Q1 off, thus allowing
Q2 to be held off by R2. Once the +5V rail reaches 4.85V and a 150mS delay elapses,
the reset signal is released, Q1 turns on, turning on Q2 and allowing
bus power to reach the cameras. If the +5V rail falls below 4.85V, the cameras
are immediately shut off. Assuming the cameras consume ~100mA each, it should
be no problem to power eight of them through a single D-Sub pin.
The PCB is designed to fit between the two rows of solder cups on a DB-25 connector
and be soldered in place. Q2 will probably have to have its legs bent so
it lays back, over the BAT46 diode.
I'd say we're about done for now. Once we see how Wade's RCA-to-USB converter
and EFIS handle being switched between camera feeds, and Bob checks the camera
output signal, we'll know if any changes are necessary or if we can go ahead
with a hardware prototype.
Eric
Top side of PCB:
Bottom side of PCB:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473955#473955
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/8_ch_vid_cam_mux_rev_c_213.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
I didnt get a schematic attached.
But - if you have a PIC, isnt it a better idea to get the PIC to do the POR? Even
if we cant contrive a way to spare a pin with an 8 pin PIC ou could go back
to the 14 pin PIC at no extra cost, and have plenty of IO pins, comparators etc.
No extra cost and you save the POR IC.
On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:10 PM, Eric Page wrote:
alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote:
> 201 instructions, now, and still 9 bytes of data. So you saved 19 instructions
by changing IC.
>
> Ive run it through PICSIM as best I can; hardware would be the next step. Unfortunately
I dont have any trash PCBs for 8-pin PICs.
Beauty!
I've got the schematic (PDF attached) and a fist pass at the board layout complete.
I exchanged a few questions/answers with a TI engineer about using the CD74HC4051E,
and he told me the main "gotcha" with the part is applying a signal to an
input before the IC is powered up. Apparently there's a path from the inputs
to Vdd until the internal FETs are properly biased. To eliminate this possibility,
I added a small circuit (bottom right corner of the schematic) consisting
of a power-on reset (POR) IC and a couple of MOSFETs. The POR watches the
+5V rail, and as soon as 1V is reached it begins to hold Q1 off, thus allowing
Q2 to be held off by R2. Once the +5V rail reaches 4.85V and a 150mS delay elapses,
the reset signal is released, Q1 turns on, turning on Q2 and allowing
bus power to reach the cameras. If the +5V rail falls below 4.85V, the cameras
are immediately shut off. Assuming the cameras consume ~100mA each, it should
be no problem to power eight of them through a single D-Sub pin.
The PCB is designed to fit between the two rows of solder cups on a DB-25 connector
and be soldered in place. Q2 will probably have to have its legs bent so
it lays back, over the BAT46 diode.
I'd say we're about done for now. Once we see how Wade's RCA-to-USB converter
and EFIS handle being switched between camera feeds, and Bob checks the camera
output signal, we'll know if any changes are necessary or if we can go ahead
with a hardware prototype.
Eric
Top side of PCB:
Bottom side of PCB:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473955#473955
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/8_ch_vid_cam_mux_rev_c_213.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote:
> I didnt get a schematic attached.
Apparently the server doesn't include attachments with the email echo.
See: http://forums.matronics.com//files/8_ch_vid_cam_mux_rev_c_213.pdf
> But - if you have a PIC, isnt it a better idea to get the PIC to do the POR?
Even if we cant contrive a way to spare a pin with an 8 pin PIC ou could go back
to the 14 pin PIC at no extra cost, and have plenty of IO pins, comparators
etc. No extra cost and you save the POR IC.
This sounds like a reasonable idea. Can the PIC12F683 monitor its own Vdd, or
is a separate pin required as an input for the comparator funciton?
The camera power is switched through a P-Ch MOSFET, so it's held OFF automatically
by a pull-up resistor. If the PIC can pull the MOSFET gate to ground when
Vdd exceeds a threshold voltage, then the POR is unnecessary, as is the N-Ch
MOSFET to switch the P-Ch.
Since the MOSFET's gate won't be bothered by 12V, we could use the Vpp pin to switch
it during normal operation. If a separate pin is required for the comparator
input, then we use a 14-pin PIC and have pins to spare.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473957#473957
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Eric Page wrote:
> If the PIC can pull the MOSFET gate to ground when Vdd exceeds a threshold voltage,
then the POR is unnecessary, as is the N-Ch MOSFET to switch the P-Ch.
Never mind this sentence; that won't work. The P-Ch gate has to be pulled up to
its source voltage, which is too high for a PIC pin. So, an N-Ch is still needed
to control the P-Ch. This would reverse the PIC output logic: Vdd low -
output low, Vdd normal - output high.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473958#473958
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
The brownout reset of the PIC sounds like the right sort of idea, but it holds
in reset only until the Vdd rises to between 2 and 2.2V. One could run the PIC
from 2.5V derived from a 5V supply with a zener diode/resistor network to hold
it off until the supply voltage reaches 4.5V, but then the maximum pin output
voltage isnt guaranteed to be higher than 1.8V, which wont drive the switching
inputs of the multiplexer. I dont think Im cunning enough to make that work
with an 8 pin device.
If you have room to go back to the 16f18323, it has an internal 1.024V fixed voltage
reference and a comparator module. If we set the voltage reference as an
internal input to the comparator, and connect the centre of a two resistor potential
divider from Vdd to the external input of the comparator then you can
easily detect when Vdd rises above an arbitrary threshold. Then you can have a
logic output some chosen delay after the supply voltage rises above an arbitrary
threshold.
On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:56 PM, Eric Page wrote:
alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote:
> I didnt get a schematic attached.
Apparently the server doesn't include attachments with the email echo.
See: http://forums.matronics.com//files/8_ch_vid_cam_mux_rev_c_213.pdf
> But - if you have a PIC, isnt it a better idea to get the PIC to do the POR?
Even if we cant contrive a way to spare a pin with an 8 pin PIC ou could go back
to the 14 pin PIC at no extra cost, and have plenty of IO pins, comparators
etc. No extra cost and you save the POR IC.
This sounds like a reasonable idea. Can the PIC12F683 monitor its own Vdd, or
is a separate pin required as an input for the comparator funciton?
The camera power is switched through a P-Ch MOSFET, so it's held OFF automatically
by a pull-up resistor. If the PIC can pull the MOSFET gate to ground when
Vdd exceeds a threshold voltage, then the POR is unnecessary, as is the N-Ch
MOSFET to switch the P-Ch.
Since the MOSFET's gate won't be bothered by 12V, we could use the Vpp pin to switch
it during normal operation. If a separate pin is required for the comparator
input, then we use a 14-pin PIC and have pins to spare.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473957#473957
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Stearns <steve(at)tomasara.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... |
>>Of course I'll be double checking connections
>>etc. but I'm wondering if it's possible that the
>>ford-style regulator I installed could be G
>>sensitive? I can't image it but thought I would ask...
>No, but alternator brushes are. They are held
>against a slip ring with springs that don't
>want to be too aggressive . . . they're relatively
>soft carbon on soft copper.
>If you could monitor output voltage from the
>regulator's field terminal...
Didn't expect that... This sounds like a good excuse for me to buy an
inexpensive stand-alone multi-channel data logger. I assumed there would
be many to choose from but a quick look on Amazon didn't turn one up.
Anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Steve Stearns
Longeze N45FC
Boulder/Longmont CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
This sounds like a good excuse to buy an EFIS with a data logger feature built
in. :-)
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473970#473970
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... |
>=C2 >No, but alternator brushes are. They are held
>=C2 >against a slip ring with springs that don't
>=C2 >want to be too aggressive . . . they're relatively
>=C2 >soft carbon on soft copper.
>
>=C2 >If you could monitor output voltage from the
>=C2 >regulator's field terminal...
>
>Didn't expect that...=C2 This sounds like a good
>excuse for me to buy an inexpensive stand-alone
>multi-channel data logger.=C2 I assumed there
>would be many to choose from but a quick look on Amazon didn't turn one up.
>
>Anyone have any recommendations?
Lots of products for monitoring temperature
and shipping shocks . . . I've not seen any
that would be very useful to the work we do.
That's what prompted this project a couple
of years ago now 99% ready for beta testing.
Hmmmm . . . Paul and I are putting the final
touches on the OBAM aircraft friendly data
logger I mentioned a few days ago. Maybe
you could be the 'beta test' project.
Emacs!
Emacs!
Here's what the proof of concept assembly
looks like. A very rudimentary configuration
would suffice to get a look-see on significant
parameters of your difficulty.
I am going to install one on my pickup truck
and just leave it in place to gather a constellation
of data . . . but no reason we couldn't use
it to get a peek at your airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... |
| From: | Earl Schroeder <n233ee(at)gmail.com> |
I would like to have a couple of stand alone data loggers. Do not need anot
her =98display=99 or have room for one. Earl
> On Oct 30, 2017, at 12:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroel
ectric.com> wrote:
>
>> =C3=82 >No, but alternator brushes are. They are held
>> =C3=82 >against a slip ring with springs that don't
>> =C3=82 >want to be too aggressive . . . they're relatively
>> =C3=82 >soft carbon on soft copper.
>>
>> =C3=82 >If you could monitor output voltage from the
>> =C3=82 >regulator's field terminal...
>>
>> Didn't expect that...=C3=82 This sounds like a good excuse for me to buy
an inexpensive stand-alone multi-channel data logger.=C3=82 I assumed ther
e would be many to choose from but a quick look on Amazon didn't turn one up
.
>>
>> Anyone have any recommendations?
>
> Lots of products for monitoring temperature
> and shipping shocks . . . I've not seen any
> that would be very useful to the work we do.
>
> That's what prompted this project a couple
> of years ago now 99% ready for beta testing.
>
> Hmmmm . . . Paul and I are putting the final
> touches on the OBAM aircraft friendly data
> logger I mentioned a few days ago. Maybe
> you could be the 'beta test' project.
>
> <329c07f5.jpg>
>
> <329c0834.jpg>
>
> Here's what the proof of concept assembly
> looks like. A very rudimentary configuration
> would suffice to get a look-see on significant
> parameters of your difficulty.
>
> I am going to install one on my pickup truck
> and just leave it in place to gather a constellation
> of data . . . but no reason we couldn't use
> it to get a peek at your airplane.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graeme Hart <graeme.hart(at)onecoolkat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
I was able to order a regulator from Silent Hektik around this time last
year. I had it shipped to a UK based re-shipping service that I used to
get the regulator to NZ as Silent Hektik don't appear to ship outside of EU.
There was a delay of about a month as they were on holiday but their
website told me this before I placed the order.
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:27 AM, kenryan wrote:
>
> Thanks. I will probably sand the rough casting smooth and flat (at the
> mounting ears) and use the paste. I've got some temp monitoring strips so
> I'll determine how hot things get and then make a decision on dedicated
> cooling air. I will only be using under 5 amps under normal circumstances
> so I'm hoping the thing lasts.
>
> Sidenote: I have a German friend who is an avid aviation enthusiast and
> the last time he went over there he tried to get me a Silent-Hektik
> regulator. Unfortunately the company was non-responsive to his telephone
> calls. They never answered their phone nor returned his messages.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473933#473933
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
Great info Graeme. Do you have a link to the re-shipping service?
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Graeme Hart
wrote:
> I was able to order a regulator from Silent Hektik around this time last
> year. I had it shipped to a UK based re-shipping service that I used to
> get the regulator to NZ as Silent Hektik don't appear to ship outside of EU.
>
> There was a delay of about a month as they were on holiday but their
> website told me this before I placed the order.
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:27 AM, kenryan wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Thanks. I will probably sand the rough casting smooth and flat (at the
>> mounting ears) and use the paste. I've got some temp monitoring strips so
>> I'll determine how hot things get and then make a decision on dedicated
>> cooling air. I will only be using under 5 amps under normal circumstances
>> so I'm hoping the thing lasts.
>>
>> Sidenote: I have a German friend who is an avid aviation enthusiast and
>> the last time he went over there he tried to get me a Silent-Hektik
>> regulator. Unfortunately the company was non-responsive to his telephone
>> calls. They never answered their phone nor returned his messages.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473933#473933
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -
>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
>> Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ===================================
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graeme Hart <graeme.hart(at)onecoolkat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax/Ducati Voltage Regulator/Rectifier |
It was Youshop which is a NZ only service so unlikely to be of use to you.
Others may be able to recommend a service that ships to your location.
On Tue, 31 Oct 2017, 09:29 Ken Ryan wrote:
> Great info Graeme. Do you have a link to the re-shipping service?
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Graeme Hart
> wrote:
>
>> I was able to order a regulator from Silent Hektik around this time last
>> year. I had it shipped to a UK based re-shipping service that I used to
>> get the regulator to NZ as Silent Hektik don't appear to ship outside of EU.
>>
>> There was a delay of about a month as they were on holiday but their
>> website told me this before I placed the order.
>>
>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | homebrew alternative to Ducati, etc regulators?? |
With all the regulator failures on Rotax (insert version here)
regulators, I've been wondering about whether the job could be
accomplished using a different tack.
What about a diode bridge using diodes that can handle the higher
frequencies being generated by the 'wild' output from PM dynamos,
followed by a 'buck' style switching regulator that could withstand the
fairly high DC voltage that would result from high rpm and low load.
Both the diode bridge and the 'switcher' might well be off-the-shelf
items, that could be wired together to get a very high efficiency DC
output. If I've been correctly interpreting some of the data on the
traditional regulators, their efficiency is atrocious (which probably
helps explain the horrible failure rate). A bit of filtering might be
required to clean up the switcher's noise, but the idea seems worth
exploring. If I had a dog in the hunt, I'd certainly take a shot at
something like that.
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
If I understand this project, it's just switching between cameras that are
making a continual feed. How much more difficult would it be to not only
switch between cameras but turn the camera off and on, too?
I found this little guy at Gearbest (although it was only $33.41 when I
bought it just last month):
https://www.gearbest.com/fpv-system/pp_219405.html
Amazing little camera that has a socket for a micro SD of up to 32 Gb. Even
with that much storage it's only good for about 120 minutes of 1080P video.
It seems like a lot until you consider how much is wasted in taxi and
transit to the area where you want to film. As my trike is slow (42 mph
cruise) that can amount to a quarter to half of the storage gone before I
get to where I want to actually start recording. If the price comes back
down again I'd like to have one on each wingtip, another on a boom from the
nose, and a fourth on a drogue ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hX5qY_
nO8
) I've been using GoPro clones but being able to turn the HD19 on and off
as I want would be much better.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 10:16 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> I didn=99t get a schematic attached.
>
> But - if you have a PIC, isn=99t it a better idea to get the PIC to
do the
> POR? Even if we can=99t contrive a way to spare a pin with an 8 pin
PIC ou
> could go back to the 14 pin PIC at no extra cost, and have plenty of IO
> pins, comparators etc. No extra cost and you save the POR IC.
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:10 PM, Eric Page wrote:
>
>
> alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote:
> > 201 instructions, now, and still 9 bytes of data. So you saved 19
> instructions by changing IC.
> >
> > I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve run it through PICSIM as best I can; hardwa
re would be the next
> step. Unfortunately I don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t have any trash PCBs fo
r 8-pin PICs.
>
>
> Beauty!
>
> I've got the schematic (PDF attached) and a fist pass at the board layout
> complete.
>
> I exchanged a few questions/answers with a TI engineer about using the
> CD74HC4051E, and he told me the main "gotcha" with the part is applying a
> signal to an input before the IC is powered up. Apparently there's a pat
h
> from the inputs to Vdd until the internal FETs are properly biased. To
> eliminate this possibility, I added a small circuit (bottom right corner
of
> the schematic) consisting of a power-on reset (POR) IC and a couple of
> MOSFETs. The POR watches the +5V rail, and as soon as 1V is reached it
> begins to hold Q1 off, thus allowing Q2 to be held off by R2. Once the +
5V
> rail reaches 4.85V and a 150mS delay elapses, the reset signal is release
d,
> Q1 turns on, turning on Q2 and allowing bus power to reach the cameras.
If
> the +5V rail falls below 4.85V, the cameras are immediately shut off.
> Assuming the cameras consume ~100mA each, it should be no problem to powe
r
> eight of them through a single D-Sub pin.
>
> The PCB is designed to fit between the two rows of solder cups on a DB-25
> connector and be soldered in place. Q2 will probably have to have its le
gs
> bent so it lays back, over the BAT46 diode.
>
> I'd say we're about done for now. Once we see how Wade's RCA-to-USB
> converter and EFIS handle being switched between camera feeds, and Bob
> checks the camera output signal, we'll know if any changes are necessary
or
> if we can go ahead with a hardware prototype.
>
> Eric
>
>
> Top side of PCB:
>
>
> Bottom side of PCB:
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473955#473955
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/8_ch_vid_cam_mux_rev_c_213.pdf
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
rickofudall wrote:
> If I understand this project, it's just switching between cameras that are making
a continual feed.
Correct.
> How much more difficult would it be to not only switch between cameras but turn
the camera off and on, too?
In principle, trivial, but it would certainly complicate the design of what we're
doing in response to Wade's request.
What exactly is it that you want to accomplish? I presume that on a trike you're
not feeding your cameras into an EFIS display, but rather letting them record
to memory, then editing the recorded video later.
Do you want to be able to power the cameras ON/OFF remotely to save battery charge
AND be able to toggle recording, or is it OK to have the cameras ON for the
whole flight, and just be able to remotely toggle recording when desired?
Without opening one of those cameras it's hard to know for sure, but judging by
the buttons on them, it looks like you should be able to wire an additional switch
parallel to the RECORD button and place it in a convenient location. If
you want to control four cameras, a small board (1" x 2-1/2" should do) with
four tactile switches could be mounted wherever you like and wired to the cameras.
You could open each camera and install a pigtail from the RECORD switch
to a two-pin connector outside the camera body, then route a wire pair with matching
connector to the switch panel.
Unless I've misunderstood what you want, I don't think any electronics would be
required.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473987#473987
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: homebrew alternative to Ducati, etc regulators?? |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
Charlie, I agree that 80 watts dissipation while outputting 240 watts of
power is not impressive. I suspect it is tough to do a lot better on a
12volt system though. 20 amps through any full wave silicon bridge
arrangement is perhaps 30 watts lost and I'd guess at least another 20
watts from the buck converter inductor, mosfet(s), and diode. Such a
commercially built converter would be larger and more expensive compared
to existing after market offerings. Advantages should include a couple
more amps of output and a I think a generally cooler running stator.
I cobbled together a 50khz dc/dc buck converter for a 120 volt solar
array for perhaps $30. of parts so a homebrew should be doable if one
really wanted to. The output from my unit is electrically fairly noisy.
Ken
On 30/10/2017 5:06 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
> With all the regulator failures on Rotax (insert version here)
> regulators, I've been wondering about whether the job could be
> accomplished using a different tack.
>
> What about a diode bridge using diodes that can handle the higher
> frequencies being generated by the 'wild' output from PM dynamos,
> followed by a 'buck' style switching regulator that could withstand
> the fairly high DC voltage that would result from high rpm and low
> load. Both the diode bridge and the 'switcher' might well be
> off-the-shelf items, that could be wired together to get a very high
> efficiency DC output. If I've been correctly interpreting some of the
> data on the traditional regulators, their efficiency is atrocious
> (which probably helps explain the horrible failure rate). A bit of
> filtering might be required to clean up the switcher's noise, but the
> idea seems worth exploring. If I had a dog in the hunt, I'd certainly
> take a shot at something like that.
>
> Charlie
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: homebrew alternative to Ducati, etc regulators?? |
There are lots of dynamos on lots of motorcycle engines, tractors and
industrial engines. Surely there must be an RR out there from the likes of
John Deere, Kubota, or Harley Davidson. If not there then the aftermarket
has units from Accel, Custom Chrome, JP Cycles or Dennis Kirk just to name
a few.
As an aside, the first thing you learn when you work on Rotax engines is
that the first place to look when there's a problem is how the owner
deviated from the engine's Installation Manual.
Just sayin'
Rick Girard
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 9:58 PM, C&K wrote:
>
> Charlie, I agree that 80 watts dissipation while outputting 240 watts of
> power is not impressive. I suspect it is tough to do a lot better on a
> 12volt system though. 20 amps through any full wave silicon bridge
> arrangement is perhaps 30 watts lost and I'd guess at least another 20
> watts from the buck converter inductor, mosfet(s), and diode. Such a
> commercially built converter would be larger and more expensive compared
to
> existing after market offerings. Advantages should include a couple more
> amps of output and a I think a generally cooler running stator.
>
> I cobbled together a 50khz dc/dc buck converter for a 120 volt solar arra
y
> for perhaps $30. of parts so a homebrew should be doable if one really
> wanted to. The output from my unit is electrically fairly noisy.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On 30/10/2017 5:06 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
>> ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> With all the regulator failures on Rotax (insert version here)
>> regulators, I've been wondering about whether the job could be accomplis
hed
>> using a different tack.
>>
>> What about a diode bridge using diodes that can handle the higher
>> frequencies being generated by the 'wild' output from PM dynamos, follow
ed
>> by a 'buck' style switching regulator that could withstand the fairly hi
gh
>> DC voltage that would result from high rpm and low load. Both the diode
>> bridge and the 'switcher' might well be off-the-shelf items, that could
be
>> wired together to get a very high efficiency DC output. If I've been
>> correctly interpreting some of the data on the traditional regulators,
>> their efficiency is atrocious (which probably helps explain the horrible
>> failure rate). A bit of filtering might be required to clean up the
>> switcher's noise, but the idea seems worth exploring. If I had a dog in
the
>> hunt, I'd certainly take a shot at something like that.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com> |
Eric,
> Once we see how Wade's RCA-to-USB converter and EFIS handle being switched between
camera feeds
FYI - I should be done with the final checks on my panel/EFIS by the end of this
week, and ready to start testing video NLT end of next week.
Cheers,
Wade
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ N916WP
www.longezpush.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473995#473995
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Airdog77 wrote:
> FYI - I should be done with the final checks on my panel/EFIS by the end of this
week, and ready to start testing video NLT end of next week.
I hope all the geek chatter hasn't created a sense of urgency! There's no rush;
take your time... ;-}
Eric
P.S. Alec and I have begun direct email comms to avoid spamming the List with
endless back-and-forth about PCB layout and PIC programming. I promise no functional
or interface changes without consultation here.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473998#473998
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Stearns <steve(at)tomasara.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... |
Bob said: Hmmmm . . . Paul and I are putting the final
touches on the OBAM aircraft friendly data
logger I mentioned a few days ago. Maybe
you could be the 'beta test' project.
I was thinking maybe a four channel "Hobo". Btw,: I get the digest version
of the forum so I can not look at attachments... Nonetheless, I'm
available to alpha or beta a new logger. I hadn't been following that
thread so I'll have to go back and read the background. Consider me an
experienced tester as I've done lots of development and have a lab etc..
Steve Stearns
Longeze N45FC
Boulder/Longmont CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com> |
No worries. I wanted to fire up the EFIS and check it out anyway. :)
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ N916WP
www.longezpush.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474003#474003
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Baldwin <1james.baldwin(at)gmail.com> |
I am hooking up my Grand Rapids Technology ADS-B hardware and two of
the connections are coax. I asked and they said either RG58 or RG400
works.
1. Should I use one or the other for some reason?
2. I can't thread a completed coax where it goes with connectors so I
need to fasten or crimp them on afterwards. Anyone using a tool
available at Lowe's or HD or Fry's or ...?
3. I went to Lowe's and didn't see any RG58 wire or connectors. I saw
they had RG59 whatever that is. I did see RG58 A/U at Aircraft Spruce.
Hints appreciated. Thank you. JBB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ADS-B Antennae |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Crimp tool:
http://www.steinair.com/product/ratcheting-crimper-frame-only/ and
http://www.steinair.com/product/bnc-crimp-die-only/
Do not try to use TV or automotive crimpers.
If your run is about 6 ft or less, you can use RG58 of the stranded wire
center conductor variety. I suggest RG-400 for your transponder/ADS-B
Out transmitter. RG-58 will do the job for the ADS-B In receiver, as
well as for your com radio(s).
RG-58 and RG-400 are 50 ohm impedance, which you want. RG-59 is 75 ohm
impedance and usually solid core center conductor.
On 10/31/2017 6:56 PM, James Baldwin wrote:
> <1james.baldwin(at)gmail.com>
>
> I am hooking up my Grand Rapids Technology ADS-B hardware and two of
> the connections are coax. I asked and they said either RG58 or RG400
> works.
> 1. Should I use one or the other for some reason?
> 2. I can't thread a completed coax where it goes with connectors so I
> need to fasten or crimp them on afterwards. Anyone using a tool
> available at Lowe's or HD or Fry's or ...?
> 3. I went to Lowe's and didn't see any RG58 wire or connectors. I saw
> they had RG59 whatever that is. I did see RG58 A/U at Aircraft Spruce.
>
> Hints appreciated. Thank you. JBB
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ADS-B Antennae |
| From: | Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
RG59 is 75 Ohm coax, used in video/tv applications. RG400 is higher spec
50 ohm coax. RG58 is the more common. For short runs, RG58 is normally
adequate.
On 1/11/2017 12:56 PM, James Baldwin wrote:
> <1james.baldwin(at)gmail.com>
>
> I am hooking up my Grand Rapids Technology ADS-B hardware and two
> of the connections are coax. I asked and they said either RG58 or
> RG400 works.
> 1. Should I use one or the other for some reason?
> 2. I can't thread a completed coax where it goes with connectors so I
> need to fasten or crimp them on afterwards. Anyone using a tool
> available at Lowe's or HD or Fry's or ...?
> 3. I went to Lowe's and didn't see any RG58 wire or connectors. I saw
> they had RG59 whatever that is. I did see RG58 A/U at Aircraft Spruce.
>
> Hints appreciated. Thank you. JBB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List 2017 Fund Raiser |
During November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's solely through
the Contributions of List members (you) that these Matronics Lists are possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. YOUR personal Contribution
counts!
This year we have a really HUGE and TERRIFIC line up of free gifts to go along
with the various Contribution levels. In fact, there are 9 great gifts to choose
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Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
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I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
If you have your cable lengths.just call Stein and have him
make the cables with RG400. If time is money, it is the best way to go.
If they have to be made in place..
I used RG400..
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Maxwell
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ADS-B Antennae
RG59 is 75 Ohm coax, used in video/tv applications. RG400 is higher spec
50 ohm coax. RG58 is the more common. For short runs, RG58 is normally
adequate.
On 1/11/2017 12:56 PM, James Baldwin wrote:
<1james.baldwin(at)gmail.com>
I am hooking up my Grand Rapids Technology ADS-B hardware and two of
the connections are coax. I asked and they said either RG58 or RG400
works.
1. Should I use one or the other for some reason?
2. I can't thread a completed coax where it goes with connectors so I
need to fasten or crimp them on afterwards. Anyone using a tool
available at Lowe's or HD or Fry's or ...?
3. I went to Lowe's and didn't see any RG58 wire or connectors. I saw
they had RG59 whatever that is. I did see RG58 A/U at Aircraft Spruce.
Hints appreciated. Thank you. JBB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
for Canadians I=99ve found Mouser to be exceptional:
http://ca.mouser.com
prices in Canadian dollars, free shipping over CAD$100, arrives next day to t
he GTA (from Texas), no customs delays or charges.
On Aug 19, 2017, at 12:08, Todd Bartrim wrote:
As a Canadian I have learned to play the shipping game and which vendors are
best. Amazon.ca is great if you have a Prime account (well worth it), but f
or most electronic supplies it's hard to beat digikey.ca for the fast cheap s
hipping. Its the same site as digikey.com but with prices in cad. They still
ship from the US location, but they have some deal where it is shipped as i
f it originated in Canada so it doesn't get held up in customs and no nasty b
rokerage fees.
$8 flat rate 2day shipping (free on large orders).
Our American neighbors have long enjoyed fast, free shipping, so it's nice t
o have a few companies start to provide it to us as well.
I don't have much electronic advice but I have learned how to get what I nee
d!
Todd
C-FSTB
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017, 09:17 Robert L. Nuckolls, III, <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
> At 07:31 AM 8/18/2017, you wrote:
>>
>> Just for the record, Amazon Canada is also worth looking at. =C3=82 Obvio
usly not an issue with crossing a border.
>
> There are 300+ offerings of Kester 63/37 in
> various put-ups on eBay.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yb8rcqgb
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
Is it acceptable to use non-plated copper lugs on the 4AWG cables in my
starting circuit?
Ken Ryan
Anchorage, Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 11/2/2017 8:46 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> Is it acceptable to use non-plated copper lugs on the 4AWG cables in
> my starting circuit?
>
> Ken Ryan
> Anchorage, Alaska
I hope so (I did). :-)
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 08:46 PM 11/2/2017, you wrote:
>Is it acceptable to use non-plated copper lugs on the 4AWG cables in
>my starting circuit?
>
>Ken Ryan
>Anchorage, Alaska
Sure. Recall that we strive for 'gas tight'
connections between the current carrying
components of a power pathway.
Gas-tightness minimizes electrical resistance
in the metallic interfaces, excludes moisture
and oxygen that will degrade the joint over
time. Whether or not surfaces outside the joint
are exposed to the effects of corrosion will
have only cosmetic effects on the assembly.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks. Is it really a good idea to spray connections with something like
CorrosionX? If so, would it matter if the parts are sprayed before or after
assembly?
On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 08:46 PM 11/2/2017, you wrote:
>
> Is it acceptable to use non-plated copper lugs on the 4AWG cables in my
> starting circuit?
>
> Ken Ryan
> Anchorage, Alaska
>
>
> Sure. Recall that we strive for 'gas tight'
> connections between the current carrying
> components of a power pathway.
>
> Gas-tightness minimizes electrical resistance
> in the metallic interfaces, excludes moisture
> and oxygen that will degrade the joint over
> time. Whether or not surfaces outside the joint
> are exposed to the effects of corrosion will
> have only cosmetic effects on the assembly.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 01:10 PM 11/3/2017, you wrote:
>Thanks. Is it really a good idea to spray connections with something
>like CorrosionX? If so, would it matter if the parts are sprayed
>before or after assembly?
Any material designed for and effective for
corrosion control wouldn't hurt. Spraying
before assembly probably wouldn't make
much difference. Recall that 'gas tightness'
goes hand-in-hand with physical deformation
of the metals that make up the joint. Deformation
forces for copper alloys will be measured in
tens of thousands of pounds per square inch.
The compression strength of just about
anything you spray on is immeasurably small.
It simply extrudes out of the contact area
as the make-up forces are applied.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ground wire for LED lights |
| From: | gwgregory <gwgregory(at)comcast.net> |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
My sample camera came last week. Took the thing
out of the box and pondered how (1) one might get
a grip on the thing to mount it in an airplane and
(2) how to wire it up.
Had a brain-f@#t and got my camera 'upgraded'
as you'll see here
http://tinyurl.com/yb4yf2sa
This mod installs the camera in a robust
housing and brings leads out to airplane
friendly harness connector (d-sub).
From there, you can simply use a shielded
pair of 22AWG to take +5 to the camera
on one wire, bring video back on the other.
The shielded pair would terminate nicely into
your multiplexing box also fitted with
a connector of choice.
Now that I can grip it and wire it . . .
I'll see if I can fire it up this weekend
and deduce the DC and signal characteristics
of the video output.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
Sounds fair enough
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 03/11/2017, =C3-s 23:29, gwgregory escreveu
:
> I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of m
y Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars and fus
elage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each wingtip direct to
my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe a
nd 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be about 25 feet. Since the str
obe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good
, or not?
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab=C2=AE S2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Pengilly" <Peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | Ground wire for LED lights |
Can you class the strobe load as intermittent? The current draw is
certainly not a steady value, but the mean draw might be 1 or 1.5A? Even
so, 4A for 18g over 25=99 is on the edge of what the tables
suggest is acceptable, 16AWG might be a better bet. How often, and for
how long will you use the landing lights? Is this ground wire bundled
with the supply wires?
Peter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gwgregory
Sent: 03 November 2017 23:29
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights
I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of
my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars
and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each
wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for
nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be
about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18
AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab=C2=AE S2
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
My question is what do you expect to gain by using a separate wire for
ground? I seriously doubt it will make a bit of difference for audio
noise to your audio panel/com radio. Seems like a lot of effort to
accomplish very little. Are you really considering a separate ground
wire for each wing tip? I also think your load analysis makes no sense,
as each wingtip will have half of the load or less, not the whole load.
Your numbers do not match what I see on Aero LEDs web site for current
draw. I assume you are using the Pulsar NSP units with no separate tail
light. Aero LEDs offers 20AWG wire to power the nav/strobe lights. The
nav/strobe combos use #20 wire for ground coming out of the unit.
The landing lights are shown at 3.2 amps on their install pdf.
If it makes you feel better, I would use 20 AWG wire for the nav/strobe
units ground back to the central ground. I definitely would not run
ground of landing lights back to central ground, just ground locally.
Kelly
On 11/4/2017 5:46 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
> Can you class the strobe load as intermittent? The current draw is
> certainly not a steady value, but the mean draw might be 1 or 1.5A? Even
> so, 4A for 18g over 25 is on the edge of what the tables suggest is
> acceptable, 16AWG might be a better bet. How often, and for how long
> will you use the landing lights? Is this ground wire bundled with the
> supply wires?
>
> Peter
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *gwgregory
> *Sent:* 03 November 2017 23:29
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights
>
> I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of
> my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars
> and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each
> wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for
> nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be
> about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18
> AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not?
>
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab S2
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
I ran #18 to the wingtips.
I wanted a spare wire in place anyway and thought it would be available
if needed as a ground in the meantime since I have strobe power packs
and wigwag halogens out there.
I can hear some noise from both those items with the engine off. That's
fine as it reminds me to turn them off and I can't hear them with the
engine running. Trying different ground paths including a local ground
did not seem to make a difference. A spare wire never hurts IMO. Maybe a
wingtip camera in the future, or there are now even options appearing
for wingtip mounted ADDS-B receivers.
Ken
On 03/11/2017 7:29 PM, gwgregory wrote:
> I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips
> of my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing
> spars and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from
> each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as
> 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length
> would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm
> thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not?
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab S2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
Kelly
>From a long time weve been told by the experts that using a separate wire for
ground, thus avoiding the ground path through the airplane structure, will certainly
guarantee that no ground loop occurs, thus avoiding audio noise.
Would you explain why this isnt correct?
Thanks
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 04/11/2017, s 13:35, Kelly McMullen escreveu:
>
> My question is what do you expect to gain by using a separate wire for ground?
I seriously doubt it will make a bit of difference for audio noise to your audio
panel/com radio. Seems like a lot of effort to accomplish very little. Are
you really considering a separate ground wire for each wing tip? I also think
your load analysis makes no sense, as each wingtip will have half of the load
or less, not the whole load.
> Your numbers do not match what I see on Aero LEDs web site for current draw.
I assume you are using the Pulsar NSP units with no separate tail light. Aero
LEDs offers 20AWG wire to power the nav/strobe lights. The nav/strobe combos
use #20 wire for ground coming out of the unit.
> The landing lights are shown at 3.2 amps on their install pdf.
> If it makes you feel better, I would use 20 AWG wire for the nav/strobe units
ground back to the central ground. I definitely would not run ground of landing
lights back to central ground, just ground locally.
> Kelly
>
>> On 11/4/2017 5:46 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
>> Can you class the strobe load as intermittent? The current draw is certainly
not a steady value, but the mean draw might be 1 or 1.5A? Even so, 4A for 18g
over 25 is on the edge of what the tables suggest is acceptable, 16AWG might
be a better bet. How often, and for how long will you use the landing lights?
Is this ground wire bundled with the supply wires?
>> Peter
>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *gwgregory
>> *Sent:* 03 November 2017 23:29
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Ground wire for LED lights
>> I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of my
Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars and fuselage
structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each wingtip direct to my main
ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for
landing lights. Wire length would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is
intermittent, I'm thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not?
>> Sent from my Galaxy Tab S2
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
At 08:35 AM 11/4/2017, you wrote:
>
>My question is what do you expect to gain by using a separate wire
>for ground? I seriously doubt it will make a bit of difference for
>audio noise to your audio panel/com radio. Seems like a lot of
>effort to accomplish very little. Are you really considering a
>separate ground wire for each wing tip?
Agreed . . . I'd use airframe grounds if
available.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
At 09:38 AM 11/4/2017, you wrote:
>
>Kelly
>
> >From a long time we=99ve been told by the
> experts that using a separate wire for ground,
> thus avoiding the ground path through the
> airplane structure, will certainly guarantee
> that no ground loop occurs, thus avoiding audio noise.
>
>Would you explain why this isn=99t correct?
Ground induced noises occur when potential
VICTIMS (radios, intercomm, etc) SHARE ground
pathways with potential ANTAGONISTS (alternators,
hydraulic pump motors, xenon strobes, etc.).
The easiest way to avoid the unwanted exchange
of energy is to build a 'ground wall' around
victims. This is what prompted the development
of the panel ground bus illustrated in the
in this document . . .
http://tinyurl.com/ycqp622u
This product is currently not in production
but it's easy to build one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
What Bob said. Keep avionics grounds, especially audio grounds together,
grounded to single point. Use airframe for big current items and
resistive loads. That assumes that airframe is of a relatively
conductive metal...otherwise, airframes like composites obviously
require wire ground paths.
A few items that are known noise makers, like some varieties of HID
lights need special treatment, as well as xenon strobes, but both those
items are getting replaced in the market by LED.
On 11/4/2017 7:38 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Kelly
>
>>From a long time weve been told by the experts that using a separate wire for
ground, thus avoiding the ground path through the airplane structure, will certainly
guarantee that no ground loop occurs, thus avoiding audio noise.
>
> Would you explain why this isnt correct?
>
> Thanks
> Carlos
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
| From: | Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org> |
I agree, but fwiw I can hear my aeroled strobes in my headset. To be
fair I could hear the Whelan strobe they replaced and I re-used the same
wires. At some point I plan to investigate but it's not obnoxious to
make it a priority.
--Rick
On 11/04/2017 04:23 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> What Bob said. Keep avionics grounds, especially audio grounds together,
> grounded to single point. Use airframe for big current items and
> resistive loads. That assumes that airframe is of a relatively
> conductive metal...otherwise, airframes like composites obviously
> require wire ground paths.
> A few items that are known noise makers, like some varieties of HID
> lights need special treatment, as well as xenon strobes, but both those
> items are getting replaced in the market by LED.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Interesting. My Aveo nav/strobe LEDs are perfectly quiet in my Bose A20s.
On 11/4/2017 8:03 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:
>
> I agree, but fwiw I can hear my aeroled strobes in my headset. To be
> fair I could hear the Whelan strobe they replaced and I re-used the same
> wires. At some point I plan to investigate but it's not obnoxious to
> make it a priority.
>
> --Rick
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire for LED lights |
At 09:10 PM 11/4/2017, you wrote:
>
>Interesting. My Aveo nav/strobe LEDs are perfectly quiet in my Bose A20s.
>
>On 11/4/2017 8:03 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:
>>I agree, but fwiw I can hear my aeroled strobes in my headset. To
>>be fair I could hear the Whelan strobe they replaced and I re-used
>>the same wires. At some point I plan to investigate but it's not
>>obnoxious to make it a priority.
>>--Rick
Running a noise problem to ground is a bit like
playing the board game Clue . . . you sift through
the features of your airplane's configuration
more to eliminate answers than to confirm them.
Sometimes the answers pop up immediately, maybe
not.
You already have an antagonist . . . and sorta
have a victim. Chapter 17 of the 'Connection
http://tinyurl.com/pt97pha
describes the 'rules of the game' for sifting
clues. Only after your victim and propagation
pathway are discovered are you ready to effect
a remedy.
But as long as the Z-15 guidelines for grounding
are observed, the remedy will not be found
lurking in a ground-loop.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Easley" <mikeeasley(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Ray Allen Trim Servos and Garmin GAD 27 |
I have 4-way hat switches on my sticks. I've used both the RAC REL-2 Relay
Decks and later switched to a SafetyTrim for the elevator trim.
For reference.
Description of Relay Deck.
This device converts the momentary contact action of the ROS-4 4-way switch,
or any SPST pushbutton switch, into a DPDT action that is necessary to
operate Ray Allen servos.
Description of RAC Switch.
The RS2 rocker switch is designed to electrically short the actuator motor
to ground (-) when released. This stops the actuator motor without any
coasting, allowing precise positioning of the actuator.
The GAD 27, part of my G3X panel, is supposed to be a trim controller. I
does the mixing, variable speed control, etc., but I can't find any
reference to it working correctly with the RAC servos. So do I need relay
decks, or not? If so, where? Between the switches and the GAD 27, between
the GAD 27 and the autopilot servos, or between the autopilot servos and the
trim servos?
Thanks,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Trim Servos and Garmin GAD 27 |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
Le 05/11/2017 14:35, Michael Easley a crit :
>
> The GAD 27, part of my G3X panel, is supposed to be a trim controller.
> I does the mixing, variable speed control, etc., but I cant find any
> reference to it working correctly with the RAC servos. So do I need
> relay decks, or not? If so, where? Between the switches and the GAD
> 27, between the GAD 27 and the autopilot servos, or between the
> autopilot servos and the trim servos?
>
Mike and all,
FWIW, the Garmin G3X Install Manual v 5 states 5A current output for
each of the trim motors, see page 23.3.
Pages 24.9 through 27.11 show example wirings with direct stick switch
arrangement and no relay.
Also the RAC trim installation sheet shows a 1 A fuse or breaker.
So I think you should be OK with no relays. Of course once the system is
installed, a precautionary current measurement is in order.
What you didn't mention is whether you are using GSA28 A/P servos or not ?
Hope this helps,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Trim Servos and Garmin GAD 27 |
>
>So I think you should be OK with no relays. Of course once the
>system is installed, a precautionary current measurement is in order.
>What you didn't mention is whether you are using GSA28 A/P servos or not ?
The RAC actuators draw very low currents. I've seen
them powered with an array of AA alkaline cells with
YEARS of service. I think they draw about 100 mA.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electronics ignition harness |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Hello,
Finishing to wire the Z19RB on my plane, I have a problem to resolve... the latest
before flying again ! [Rolling Eyes] :P
Something is missing between sparks and ignition coil... And to chose with my lack
of knoweldge about this kind of technologie I'm a bit lost.
I bought 2 electronics ignition from a UK shop (Leburg ignition) for my Vw 1835cc
engine, and I just have in the user manuel :
"Use only plug leads with high resistance (carbon) cores. Expect damage to the
controllers if you use copper cored leads"
I am unable to have from the seller another information (no very professional for
a shop...)
And I don't want to take a bad part and to risk ignition blow. What kind of wire,
boots and sparks (resistance or whitout resistance) I have to use with this
kind of ignition knowing that I just have to use (and to find !) wire with carbon
cores ?
I find an un-official source (forum) that, in the past, the conceptor of this ignition
told that we have to use a resistance from 5Kohm (minimum) to 10Kohm.
(But we couldn't ask him the question anymore...)
I don't know if it's good choice, but for the moment I was thinking about to use
silicone/steel wire (2,3 ft that is around 4Kohm resistance with this kind of
wire :
http://www.classicautoelec.com/fr/fil-haute-tension/1975-fil-haute-tension-silicone-rsistif-beru.html )
and sparks with a 5 Kohm resistance), to reach around 7,5 Kohms total resistance
for each wire. (But it's not carbon core wire [Rolling Eyes] )
I will appreciate your point of view.
Thank you.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474463#474463
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electronics ignition harness |
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Hi,
if you click on their link for leads, you get to another UK company and
they refer to their HT leads being made from Ferroflex and Maglite cables.
searching them you should be able to find the material.
e.g. http://www.gsparkplug.com/ignition/ignition-lead/graphite-resisted-core
Good luck ;)
Werner
On 06.11.2017 12:15, Achille wrote:
>
>
> I bought 2 electronics ignition from a UK shop (Leburg ignition) for my Vw
1835cc engine, and I just have in the user manuel :
>
> "Use only plug leads with high resistance (carbon) cores.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Kuffels" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Trim Servos and Garmin GAD 27 |
<< RAC actuators ... I think they draw about 100 mA. >>
What I measured, with a large scale ammeter, was under 200 mA (first mark)
so "about 100 mA" sounds correct.
Tom Kuffel
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "erich weaver" <erich.weaver(at)aecom.com> |
I have my RV-7A wired per Z-13/8. I sometimes observe rapidly fluctuating voltage,
varying from approximately 13.0 to 14.0 V, as indicated on my EFIS display.
I figured it was just a loose connection at the EFIS, but I hooked up a voltage
meter to the battery terminals and ran the engine and observed similar occasional
fluctuations, so the problem lies elsewhere. I then tested voltage
at pin 6 on my B&C LRC voltage regulator with the engine off and the master on,
and observed a voltage of about 11.9 V. However, when I remove the wire from
my master switch that feeds pin 6 and test voltage on it, I get the expected
13 V. The voltage drop is only observed after connecting the wire to the voltage
regulator. B&C specs say the voltage drop should be 0.2V or less. Is my
regulator bad and is this the cause of my voltage fluctuations?
thanks
Erich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474480#474480
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
If I am interpreting your voltage measurements correctly, it sounds like the master
switch contacts or terminals have high resistance. Make sure the terminals
are tight and cycle the master switch on and off many times to wear away corrosion.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474481#474481
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "erich weaver" <erich.weaver(at)aecom.com> |
No, when I measure voltage at the regulator end of the wire, but with it disconnected
from the regulator, I see the full 13 V. When I reconnect the wire to
the regulator and measure the voltage again at the pin 6 terminal, it drops to
11.9 V. Measurements were repeated several times to confirm.
Erich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474486#474486
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
OK Erich. That confirms my interpretation. There is a problem with the master
switch or its connections. If you do not believe me, connect that wire to a
test lamp instead of to regulator terminal 6. The lamp should be as high wattage
as possible without blowing the fuse or tripping the breaker. If the voltage
drops at the end of that wire, then there is resistance someplace in the circuit.
If the connections are all good, then replace the master switch.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474487#474487
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
If his VOM has a 10 amp DC current range, he could just put it in series
with that wire & check the current going through the regulator.
(I agree that it's probably a bad switch, or crimp, etc.)
On 11/6/2017 7:43 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> OK Erich. That confirms my interpretation. There is a problem with the master
switch or its connections. If you do not believe me, connect that wire to
a test lamp instead of to regulator terminal 6. The lamp should be as high wattage
as possible without blowing the fuse or tripping the breaker. If the voltage
drops at the end of that wire, then there is resistance someplace in the
circuit. If the connections are all good, then replace the master switch.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
Hi - My A/p control unit is placed on the left panel, the wire call-out is 22AWG
with 5amp fuse or C/b, I'm going to put a C/b on the right panel, to serve as
isolation or quick disconnect from co-pilot side, with the total run about 4
feet, C/b at mid point, do I up the wire to 18AWG, and put a 22AWG fuse link
at the un-fused bus - regards: John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474498#474498
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
At 01:44 PM 11/6/2017, you wrote:
>
>
>I have my RV-7A wired per Z-13/8. I sometimes observe rapidly
>fluctuating voltage, varying from approximately 13.0 to 14.0 V, as
>indicated on my EFIS display. I figured it was just a loose
>connection at the EFIS, but I hooked up a voltage meter to the
>battery terminals and ran the engine and observed similar occasional
>fluctuations, so the problem lies elsewhere.
I am presuming that this is a new condition . . . that
you've enjoyed some period of normal operations from
your alternator system.
What was the voltage when the system was operating normally?
The legacy choice of set point for lead-acid systems and
RG batteries if 14.2 to 14.6V
> I then tested voltage at pin 6 on my B&C LRC voltage regulator
> with the engine off and the master on, and observed a voltage of
> about 11.9 V. However, when I remove the wire from my master
> switch that feeds pin 6 and test voltage on it, I get the expected
> 13 V. The voltage drop is only observed after connecting the wire
> to the voltage regulator. B&C specs say the voltage drop should be
> 0.2V or less. Is my regulator bad and is this the cause of my
> voltage fluctuations?
Voltage drop in pin 6 power generally
don't cause large excursions of bus voltage.
This is power pin for field current . . .
not bus voltage sensing.
As an experiment, disconnect pins 6 and 3
from ship's wiring. Jumper 6 and 3 together.
Put a 10A fuse in a temporary line from
3/6 to the alternator B-terminal.
Start the engine. Alternator will come on
line immediately. Observe bus voltage. If
not 14.2 minimum, adjust LR regulator to
achieve 14.4 volts.
Turn on system loads and observe that
bus voltage is still 14.0 to 14.4 volts.
This will confirm/deny proper opreation of
your B&C equipment.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 08:22 AM 11/7/2017, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi - My A/p control unit is placed on the left panel, the wire
>call-out is 22AWG with 5amp fuse or C/b, I'm going to put a C/b on
>the right panel, to serve as isolation or quick disconnect from
>co-pilot side, with the total run about 4 feet, C/b at mid point, do
>I up the wire to 18AWG, and put a 22AWG fuse link at the un-fused
>bus - regards: John
The a/p control head doesn't have a power switch on it?
Don't understand the need for pressing breakers into
service as failure mitigation devices. What kind of a/p
are we talking about?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "erich weaver" <erich.weaver(at)aecom.com> |
yes, I didnt see such fluctuations in the past, at least not as large. Ive noticed
it recently because my EFIS warns me when voltage falls to 13 V.
I dont understand the logic behind the earlier posts indicating that there is likely
a problem in the master switch or the the wire from it to pin 6 of the regulator.
Not saying thats wrong, just that I dont understand it. The wire clearly
is not at fault because I see no voltage drop from one end to the other
when disconnected from the regulator; voltage drop only occurs when connected
to the regulator.
As currently wired, there is a jumper between pin 3 and 6. During past "normal"
operation I believe my indicated operating voltage was somewhere in the 13.5-14.0
range. I attributed the slightly low values to diodes within the Grand
Rapids EFIS and/or EIS that dropped the voltage slightly. Not entirely sure that
is correct however.
I will try Bob's suggestion of the temporary wire to the alternator B-terminal
and monitoring buss voltage this weekend and report back.
thanks guys
Erich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474588#474588
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
As mentioned, the C/b was going to be there to isolate the A/p on the copilo
t side, the pilots stick has a servo disconnect button - the A/p is a Trio e
z-pilot
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 7 Nov 2017, at 3:18 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelect
ric.com> wrote:
>
> At 08:22 AM 11/7/2017, you wrote:
rld.com>
>>
>> Hi - My A/p control unit is placed on the left panel, the wire call-out i
s 22AWG with 5amp fuse or C/b, I'm going to put a C/b on the right panel, to
serve as isolation or quick disconnect from co-pilot side, with the total r
un about 4 feet, C/b at mid point, do I up the wire to 18AWG, and put a 22AW
G fuse link at the un-fused bus - regards: John
>
> The a/p control head doesn't have a power switch on it?
> Don't understand the need for pressing breakers into
> service as failure mitigation devices. What kind of a/p
> are we talking about?
>
>
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The logic is based on ohms law. E=IR In other words, voltage drop is equal to
current times resistance. There should be very little resistance between the
battery and terminal 6 of the voltage regulator. Let's call it zero ohms. So
the voltage drop is equal to current times zero, or zero voltage drop. Since
the voltage drop is actually 1 volt or more, then the resistance is not zero
between the battery and terminal 6. The most likely places to find resistance
is the master switch or its terminals or else a fuse or circuit breaker, whatever
is in the circuit. The easiest way to find the voltage drop (and resistance)
is with a voltmeter. Of course the voltage regulator needs to be turned
on during this test. Connect the black meter lead to terminal 6 and probe the
circuit with the red meter lead backwards towards the battery. If the voltmeter
displays more than a couple of tenths of a volt, then the problem has been
located.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474593#474593
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Product Review - Voltmeter |
I got a cheap one from overseas. It's accurate but after a couple flights a
few of the LED segments dropped out. I might order another one and see.
=8B
On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 1:28 PM, C&K wrote:
>
> Yes I have to shield those with my hand to read them on outdoor equipment
> but they seem durable and are available even cheaper and with free delive
ry
> if you don't mind the wait from overseas.
> Ken
>
>
> On 23/08/2017 1:52 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>>
>> A few weeks back we had some discussion about
>> digital voltmeters. I opined that the 'net
>> sources for such devices were legion but
>> expressed some warm fuzzies about easy to
>> mount, easy to wire, good performance
>> and, of course, cheap!
>>
>>
>> Found this guy on eBay
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/ycrez6hh
>>
>> Ordered in a couple to play with. They
>> seem meet all the qualifications for
>> warm fuzzy status.
>>
>> Both articles were within 0.1 volt of
>> true at 14.2 volts. They mount in ROUND
>> holes and wire in with 1/4" fast-ons.
>>
>> At $8 each, they're not expensive. The only
>> potential down side is sun-light viewability.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
The logic is that if there's high series resistance (flaky contacts in a
switch, bad crimp, corrosion in a joint, etc), then there will be
voltage drop across that resistance when a load is applied. The amount
of the voltage drop will depend on the current demanded by the load.
When the load is removed completely (wire disconnected from the load),
there will be no voltage drop across the resistance.
Here's another check you can make for high resistance in that circuit:
While the system is on and operating, use your voltmeter to measure
between the a/c main bus and pin 6 of the regulator. You should measure
near zero volts. If the measurement is anything higher than a tenth of a
volt or so, you've got high resistance somewhere between the supply and
the regulator.
On 11/7/2017 4:55 PM, erich weaver wrote:
>
> yes, I didnt see such fluctuations in the past, at least not as large. Ive noticed
it recently because my EFIS warns me when voltage falls to 13 V.
>
> I dont understand the logic behind the earlier posts indicating that there is
likely a problem in the master switch or the the wire from it to pin 6 of the
regulator. Not saying thats wrong, just that I dont understand it. The wire
clearly is not at fault because I see no voltage drop from one end to the other
when disconnected from the regulator; voltage drop only occurs when connected
to the regulator.
>
> As currently wired, there is a jumper between pin 3 and 6. During past "normal"
operation I believe my indicated operating voltage was somewhere in the 13.5-14.0
range. I attributed the slightly low values to diodes within the Grand
Rapids EFIS and/or EIS that dropped the voltage slightly. Not entirely sure
that is correct however.
>
> I will try Bob's suggestion of the temporary wire to the alternator B-terminal
and monitoring buss voltage this weekend and report back.
>
> thanks guys
>
> Erich
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electronics ignition harness |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Thank you Werner,
I will contact them. I didn't know this website.
I have contacted before fastelane.ltd as told in the aviation seller website but...
they don't want to sell their products for aviation use. [Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474598#474598
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Product Review - Voltmeter |
At 07:02 PM 11/7/2017, you wrote:
>I got a cheap one from overseas. It's accurate but after a couple
>flights a few of the LED segments dropped out. I might order another
>one and see.
Good feedback! I've got two that I'm converting to AC ammeters
for Dr. Dee's cotton candy machines. Won't put many hours
on them until next school carnival season. I'll get a couple
more in an wire them up in my vehicles . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
>As currently wired, there is a jumper between pin 3 and 6.
Aha! You really want to consider running separate
wires for Field supply (pin 6) and bus sense (Pin 3).
Separate power and sense paths are essential for meeting
the regulator's design goals. Furhter, if you trip the
ov system in the regulator with 3 tied to 6, you loose
low voltage warning.
> During past "normal" operation I believe my indicated operating
> voltage was somewhere in the 13.5-14.0 range. I attributed the
> slightly low values to diodes within the Grand Rapids EFIS and/or
> EIS that dropped the voltage slightly. Not entirely sure that is
> correct however.
Are you running an e-bus? Is the EFIS on the main bus or e-bus?
The e-bus normal operating voltage is 0.5 to 0.7 volts LOWER than
the main bus so perhaps your EFIS does not speak with forked tongue.
>I will try Bob's suggestion of the temporary wire to the alternator
>B-terminal and monitoring buss voltage this weekend and report back.
Okay, that's MAIN bus voltage, not E-BUS
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 06:24 PM 11/7/2017, you wrote:
>As mentioned, the C/b was going to be there to isolate the A/p on
>the copilot side, the pilots stick has a servo disconnect button -
>the A/p is a Trio ez-pilot
Not sure what 'isolate' means . . . is it your desire
to place an a/p disconnect feature in reach of the
copilot?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electronics ignition harness |
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Oh, your not using your Leburg ignition in a "sand dune buggy" or trike
(with wings) [Laughing]
Werner
On 08.11.2017 02:31, Achille wrote:
> ... they don't want to sell their products for aviation use. [Shocked]
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "erich weaver" <erich.weaver(at)aecom.com> |
Ok, will revise wiring to eliminate the pin 3 to pin 6 jumper. Did the wiring
back in 2007 or so, and don't remember my reasoning for using the jumper, but
I didn't make deviations from B&C instructions on a whim. Not important now.
The EFIS is powered from the e-bus, which I realize now will have a slight voltage
drop due to the diode, so I should expect somewhere around 13.7 to 14 V at
the buss with engine running. Still not sure if there would be additional voltage
drop from a diode internal to the EFIS.
Thanks
E.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474611#474611
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
Hi Bob
Yes: the C/b
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 8 Nov 2017, at 2:14 am, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelect
ric.com> wrote:
>
> At 06:24 PM 11/7/2017, you wrote:
>> As mentioned, the C/b was going to be there to isolate the A/p on the cop
ilot side, the pilots stick has a servo disconnect button - the A/p is a Tri
o ez-pilot
>
> Not sure what 'isolate' means . . . is it your desire
> to place an a/p disconnect feature in reach of the
> copilot?
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electronics ignition harness |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Now when I ask, it's for an engine Boat [Laughing] [Laughing] [Laughing]
But it's true that Buggy smell better, I keep it in my mind. [Wink]
Has it was linked on a aircraft part website I explained the true story. [Rolling
Eyes]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474614#474614
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net |
I tell vendors that won't sell their product for aviation purposes that it's for
my very high clearance off road vehicle. LOL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
Hi John, I don't understand why you would want to use a c/b (in the power feed
line?!?) of the Trio where it has a pin dedicated that disconnects the A/P when
connected to ground.
I don't have the pin number readily available, but all you would need is a normally
open momentary switch that you can wire in parallel to the switch you already
have.
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474621#474621
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
At 12:19 AM 11/8/2017, you wrote:
>
>
>Ok, will revise wiring to eliminate the pin 3 to pin 6 jumper. Did
>the wiring back in 2007 or so, and don't remember my reasoning for
>using the jumper, but I didn't make deviations from B&C instructions
>on a whim. Not important now.
Jumpering 3/6 together will allow the LR3
to emulate a 3-wire, 'ford' regulator . . .
which is not necessarily bad . . . but it
fails to exploit a design feature of the
LR series regulators that improves regulation
performance -AND- wards off the 'galloping
ammeter' syndrome.
>The EFIS is powered from the e-bus, which I realize now will have a
>slight voltage drop due to the diode, so I should expect somewhere
>around 13.7 to 14 V at the buss with engine running. Still not sure
>if there would be additional voltage drop from a diode internal to the EFIS.
No, they wouldn't do that. The bus voltage sample
to the EFIS will be a straight pipe line from
sample point to the analog/digital converter.
But unless there is a separate input pin labeled
"bus sense" or similar, then the EFIS has no
choice but to monitor and display the voltage
applied to the system power pin.
In this instance, powering from the e-bus would
produced an expected, normal voltage somewhat
lower than main bus . . . not a big deal 'cause
you KNOW what the drop is.
As part of the experiment, you can CLOSE the
alternate feed switch for the E-Bus which
would bypass the normal feed path diode.
The voltage drops you observe on the field supply
are a separate issue . . . but related to the
overall investigation. However, when 3/6 are tied
together, then a voltage drop on that line would
fool the LR3 into believing that the bus voltage is
LOW whereupon the regulator would BOOST the
bus, not depress it.
So there are things we still don't know/understand
about your observations. Let's confirm integrity
of the regulator/alternator hardware first.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit. The 480
is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for running new
wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my GRT for the
position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter
drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance
matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one of which
already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 02:49 AM 11/8/2017, you wrote:
>Hi Bob
>
>Yes: the C/b
>
>John
I sense that you are perhaps putting too
much weight on an a/p failure. First, the
the most likely failure is simple shut down
(quits and relaxes) or, if it uses stepper
motors, freezes up. The least likely failure
is a hard-over runaway.
Should a runaway occur, the first thing
you do is grab the stick and regain control.
The a/p is physically incapable of forces
you cannot manage manually. Once control is
achieved, getting it shut down is no big deal.
I would resist adding any more hardware or holes
in the panel just to effect a/p shutdown when
the event being managed is not an emergency.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit. The 480
is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for running new
wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my GRT for the
position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter
drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance
matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one of which
already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit. The 480
is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for running new
wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my GRT for the
position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter
drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance
matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one of which
already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit. The 480
is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for running new
wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my GRT for the
position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter
drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance
matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one of which
already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
for things like engine monitor data and such.
Tim
On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>
> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit. The
480 is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for running new
wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my GRT for the
position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter
drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance
matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>
> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one of
which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>
> Sheldon Olesen
> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit. The 480
is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for running new
wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my GRT for the
position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter
drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance
matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one of which
already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DeWitt Whittington <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | NavWorx software version |
We have a NavWorx ADS600-B box in our not yet flying Sportsman which Id like to
keep. We also have a GTN650, so that can be our position source. I understand
that is possible and that at least one person has received an Alternate Method
of Compliance approval from the FAA which allows certified Garmin boxes for
the position source. However, here is what Im not sure about. My question is how
do I rind the version of the software? And what version must we have in order
to fly using the GTN650 as the position source? We sent our box back to Bill
Moffitt (no charge, just UPS back and forth) in August 2016 at which point he,
I think, installed the GPS chip which we now know is not acceptable to the
FAA.
Thanks.
Dee Whittington
Sportsman 7034
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
moved past that already.
I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
and that Time Mark line.
On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>
> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>
> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
> for things like engine monitor data and such.
> Tim
>
>
> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>
>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>
>> Sheldon Olesen
>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Curtis <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> |
Qm9iLApJIGJ1aWx0IHRoZSBwb29yIG1hbidzIGJhdHRlcnkgY2FwYWNpdHkgdGVzdGVyIGFuZCBm
aW5kIHRoYXQgaW4gY2hlY2tpbmcgaXQgb3V0IGl0IG9ubHkgdGFrZXMgdGhlIGJhdHRlcnkgZG93
biB0byAxMS43IHZvbHRzIGFuZCB0aGVyZSBzZWVtcyB0byBiZSBhIHJlYXNvbmFibGUgYW1vdW50
IG9mIHBvd2VyIGxlZnQgaW4gdGhlIGJhdHRlcnkuIElzIHRoaXMgdGhlIGV4cGVjdGVkIG9wZXJh
dGlvbiBvZiB0aGlzIHRlc3RlciBvciBkbyBJIGhhdmUgYSBwcm9ibGVtIHdpdGggaXQ/ClJvZ2Vy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit. The 480
is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for running new
wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my GRT for the
position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter
drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance
matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one of which
already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
Hi Marcel
Yes: I've got the servo disconnect available ready for the pilots stick grip, my
thought is to put a breaker over on the right, so the copilot can have a 'disconnect'
(that side will only have a PTT).
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 8 Nov 2017, at 3:04 pm, zwakie wrote:
>
>
> Hi John, I don't understand why you would want to use a c/b (in the power feed
line?!?) of the Trio where it has a pin dedicated that disconnects the A/P when
connected to ground.
>
> I don't have the pin number readily available, but all you would need is a normally
open momentary switch that you can wire in parallel to the switch you already
have.
>
> --------
> Marcel Zwakenberg
> XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474621#474621
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 11:40 AM 11/8/2017, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I built the poor man's battery capacity tester and find that in
>checking it out it only takes the battery down to 11.7 volts and
>there seems to be a reasonable amount of power left in the battery.
>Is this the expected operation of this tester or do I have a problem with it?
>
>Roger
Probably not. As you've discovered, this isn't a tightly
'calibrated' device. You CAN lower the switch point
by making small adjustment of the resistor in series
with the zener. Lowering the resistance will lower the
switch point.
The primary value of what you have now is a REPEATABLE
benchmark for tracking battery condition over its service
life. Irrespective of the exact trip point, you can
confidently assert that a battery that ran 2.7 hours
when new and runs only 2.0 hours now has lost 26% of
its capacity at the same load.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
Hi Bob
Yes, you have summed it all up, what has been in my mind.
22AWG wire, 5amp fuse on the fuse block - no C/b ---
Thank you
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 8 Nov 2017, at 3:30 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelect
ric.com> wrote:
>
> At 02:49 AM 11/8/2017, you wrote:
>> Hi Bob
>>
>> Yes: the C/b
>>
>> John
>
> I sense that you are perhaps putting too
> much weight on an a/p failure. First, the
> the most likely failure is simple shut down
> (quits and relaxes) or, if it uses stepper
> motors, freezes up. The least likely failure
> is a hard-over runaway.
>
> Should a runaway occur, the first thing
> you do is grab the stick and regain control.
> The a/p is physically incapable of forces
> you cannot manage manually. Once control is
> achieved, getting it shut down is no big deal.
> I would resist adding any more hardware or holes
> in the panel just to effect a/p shutdown when
> the event being managed is not an emergency.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NavWorx software version |
The NavWorx 4.1 software is the latest one available that I know of - it can no
longer be obtained from NavWorx - but it is out there
As for the GTN650 - make sure it supports ADS-B OUT+. You should be able to find
it in the serial configuration of the GTN650...or contact Garmin.
-----Original Message-----
>From: DeWitt Whittington <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: Nov 8, 2017 12:09 PM
>To: Bob Nuckolls
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: NavWorx software version
>
>
>We have a NavWorx ADS600-B box in our not yet flying Sportsman which Id like to
keep. We also have a GTN650, so that can be our position source. I understand
that is possible and that at least one person has received an Alternate Method
of Compliance approval from the FAA which allows certified Garmin boxes for
the position source. However, here is what Im not sure about. My question is
how do I rind the version of the software? And what version must we have in order
to fly using the GTN650 as the position source? We sent our box back to Bill
Moffitt (no charge, just UPS back and forth) in August 2016 at which point
he, I think, installed the GPS chip which we now know is not acceptable to the
FAA.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dee Whittington
>Sportsman 7034
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit. The 480
is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for running new
wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my GRT for the
position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter
drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance
matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one of which
already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
I tried doing the same thing with my 430. No go. The GRT is using the
"aviation" format and the Navwox is using ADS-B+. I am on a business trip
and do not have everything right now.....but I could not find a way without
running new wires. I think it will take me 2 days just to wire the 430
based on previous experience.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon
Olesen
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:27 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
-->
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit.
The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for
running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my
GRT for the position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers
can one transmitter drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one
transmitter. Does distance matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the
baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one
of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit. The 480
is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for running new
wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my GRT for the
position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter
drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance
matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one of which
already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DeWitt Whittington <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NavWorx software version |
Thanks, Ralph,
So, how do I check the version of our software? As I said in the previous post,
we sent our unit back to Bill in late July or early August, 2016. Id suppose
he would have updated the software then as well as installing the GPS chip.
As for our GTN650 supporting ADS-B Out, thought all 650s would be ready for ADS-B.
Anyhow, Ill check with John Stark who sold us the unit, and if he doesnt know,
Ill get in touch with Garmin.
Dee
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
>
>
> The NavWorx 4.1 software is the latest one available that I know of - it can
no longer be obtained from NavWorx - but it is out there
>
> As for the GTN650 - make sure it supports ADS-B OUT+. You should be able to
find it in the serial configuration of the GTN650...or contact Garmin.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeWitt Whittington <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com>
>> Sent: Nov 8, 2017 12:09 PM
>> To: Bob Nuckolls
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: NavWorx software version
>>
>>
>> We have a NavWorx ADS600-B box in our not yet flying Sportsman which Id like
to keep. We also have a GTN650, so that can be our position source. I understand
that is possible and that at least one person has received an Alternate Method
of Compliance approval from the FAA which allows certified Garmin boxes for
the position source. However, here is what Im not sure about. My question is
how do I rind the version of the software? And what version must we have in
order to fly using the GTN650 as the position source? We sent our box back to
Bill Moffitt (no charge, just UPS back and forth) in August 2016 at which point
he, I think, installed the GPS chip which we now know is not acceptable to the
FAA.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Dee Whittington
>> Sportsman 7034
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
The 430/530 series and the 650/750 series did NOT have ADS-B+ format in
their original software. The original ADSB output had a few deficiencies
in the format to meet the final rule. When Garmin updated the output I
believe the FAA required they change the name of the output, hence
ADS-B+. You have to get the Garmin software update to get that output,
and then select it in the setup. I am familiar, because when I bought my
Dynon/Trig transponder it did not have that output format as a
selection. Had to get update to 650 and to the Trig to get everything to
meed the FAA spec. I expect the 480 also had to have an update to get
that format. I had to install a single wire from the Garmin 232 output
to the Trig position input.
On 11/8/2017 11:59 AM, Rene wrote:
>
> I tried doing the same thing with my 430. No go. The GRT is using the
> "aviation" format and the Navwox is using ADS-B+. I am on a business trip
> and do not have everything right now.....but I could not find a way without
> running new wires. I think it will take me 2 days just to wire the 430
> based on previous experience.
>
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon
> Olesen
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:27 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
>
> -->
>
> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit.
> The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for
> running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my
> GRT for the position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers
> can one transmitter drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one
> transmitter. Does distance matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the
> baggage bulkhead?
>
> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one
> of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>
> Sheldon Olesen
> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Pengilly" <Peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
Sheldon,
You do need to be slightly careful with terminology, RS232 is more the
physical method to connect boxes together defining connectors, pin-outs,
voltages and bit rates. The interface between them is a software standard -
such as NMEA0183 (usually just called NMEA). The interface standard will
define how the data is transmitted - what each transmitted bit means. A
typical RS232 chip will struggle to drive a cable greater than 50ft due to
capacitance issues, if your installation is approaching that length you may
have to experiment with different cables to find one that works - I have
only ever used cables a few feet long.
A NMEA bus can have several listeners, but must have only one talker - there
is no protocol for more than one box to talk. You should be able to supply 3
listeners. But be aware that strictly NMEA 0183 is not completely compatible
with RS232.
Should all the ground pins be connected together? So, no, you probably don't
need another. A circuit must be made for any databus to work, after all each
bit is only what the chip interprets as high (3v to 15v) or low (between +3v
and -3v) fluctuating at whatever the bit rate is (say 4800 baud - bits per
second). An RS232 bus should have a transmit, receive and ground/common
lines (wires). Whereas NMEA will only use either the Tx or Rx for each
device (so could make do with only 2).
All the details of both are explained pretty well on Wikipedia.
Hope this helps, Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon
Olesen
Sent: 08 November 2017 15:27
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
-->
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit.
The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for
running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my
GRT for the position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers
can one transmitter drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one
transmitter. Does distance matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the
baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one
of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
Might be worth noting that NMEA0183 uses the EIA-422 (sometimes known as RS-422)
not RS-232.
Correct me if Im mistaken but EIA-422 is +5V for logic 1 and 0v for logic zero,
whereas RS-232 is -3 to -12V for logic 1 and +3 to +12V for logic zero, so entirely
incompatible.
RS-232 is differentially signalled
On Nov 8, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
Sheldon,
You do need to be slightly careful with terminology, RS232 is more the
physical method to connect boxes together defining connectors, pin-outs,
voltages and bit rates. The interface between them is a software standard -
such as NMEA0183 (usually just called NMEA). The interface standard will
define how the data is transmitted - what each transmitted bit means. A
typical RS232 chip will struggle to drive a cable greater than 50ft due to
capacitance issues, if your installation is approaching that length you may
have to experiment with different cables to find one that works - I have
only ever used cables a few feet long.
A NMEA bus can have several listeners, but must have only one talker - there
is no protocol for more than one box to talk. You should be able to supply 3
listeners. But be aware that strictly NMEA 0183 is not completely compatible
with RS232.
Should all the ground pins be connected together? So, no, you probably don't
need another. A circuit must be made for any databus to work, after all each
bit is only what the chip interprets as high (3v to 15v) or low (between +3v
and -3v) fluctuating at whatever the bit rate is (say 4800 baud - bits per
second). An RS232 bus should have a transmit, receive and ground/common
lines (wires). Whereas NMEA will only use either the Tx or Rx for each
device (so could make do with only 2).
All the details of both are explained pretty well on Wikipedia.
Hope this helps, Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon
Olesen
Sent: 08 November 2017 15:27
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
-->
I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx unit.
The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very difficult for
running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that is already going to my
GRT for the position source. The question is: How many RS-232 receivers
can one transmitter drive? I am trying to drive 3 receivers from one
transmitter. Does distance matter, since the Navworx unit is aft of the
baggage bulkhead?
A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground pins, one
of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
Sheldon Olesen
RV-10 475PV 789hrs
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | NavWorx software version |
Dee,
For the GTN650, it should display the software rev at startup.
For the ADS600B, connect a serial cable to the maintenance port on the ADS600B
- the other end goes in to your computer/laptop/etc. Start the NavWorx UAT console
(4.1) and select the correct logical comm port for your computer. It may
not connect the first time - so retry another logical comm port. When it connects,
it will tell you what software you have or force an upgrade to the 4.1.
If it connects directly, it will tell you that it is 4.1 already.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DeWitt Whittington
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NavWorx software version
-->
Thanks, Ralph,
So, how do I check the version of our software? As I said in the previous post,
we sent our unit back to Bill in late July or early August, 2016. Id suppose
he would have updated the software then as well as installing the GPS chip.
As for our GTN650 supporting ADS-B Out, thought all 650s would be ready for ADS-B.
Anyhow, Ill check with John Stark who sold us the unit, and if he doesnt know,
Ill get in touch with Garmin.
Dee
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> -->
>
>
> The NavWorx 4.1 software is the latest one available that I know of -
> it can no longer be obtained from NavWorx - but it is out there
>
> As for the GTN650 - make sure it supports ADS-B OUT+. You should be able to
find it in the serial configuration of the GTN650...or contact Garmin.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeWitt Whittington <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com>
>> Sent: Nov 8, 2017 12:09 PM
>> To: Bob Nuckolls
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: NavWorx software version
>>
>> -->
>>
>> We have a NavWorx ADS600-B box in our not yet flying Sportsman which Id like
to keep. We also have a GTN650, so that can be our position source. I understand
that is possible and that at least one person has received an Alternate Method
of Compliance approval from the FAA which allows certified Garmin boxes for
the position source. However, here is what Im not sure about. My question is
how do I rind the version of the software? And what version must we have in
order to fly using the GTN650 as the position source? We sent our box back to
Bill Moffitt (no charge, just UPS back and forth) in August 2016 at which point
he, I think, installed the GPS chip which we now know is not acceptable to the
FAA.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Dee Whittington
>> Sportsman 7034
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com> |
| Subject: | RS-232 and Navworx |
And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
requirements of the AMOC can use it.
Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
Jim Parker
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
moved past that already.
I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
and that Time Mark line.
On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>
> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>
> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
> for things like engine monitor data and such.
> Tim
>
>
> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>
>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>
>> Sheldon Olesen
>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
Thanks to all who replied. It looks like I need a 480 software update, some more
wires run, and a contortionist friend or a box of money.
I checked up and under the panel with a borescope and there are a lot of wires
directly in the way of the connectors I need to use, and then, there is the distance
problem of the 480 being on the top of the stack. This going to take some
serious time to complete.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM,
wrote:
>
>
> And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
> AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
> https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
>
> All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
> GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
>
> And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
> general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
> requirements of the AMOC can use it.
>
> Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
>
> of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
> installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
> also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
> he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
> There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
> moved past that already.
>
> I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
> to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
>
> I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
> RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
> link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
> that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
> diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
>
> of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
>
> I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
>
> and that Time Mark line.
>
>> On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>>
>> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
>> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
>> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
>> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
>> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
>> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>>
>> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
>> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
>> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
>> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
>> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
>> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
>> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
>> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
>> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
>> for things like engine monitor data and such.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>>
>>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>>
>>> Sheldon Olesen
>>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
Thanks to all who replied. It looks like I need a 480 software update, some more
wires run, and a contortionist friend or a box of money.
I checked up and under the panel with a borescope and there are a lot of wires
directly in the way of the connectors I need to use, and then, there is the distance
problem of the 480 being on the top of the stack. This going to take some
serious time to complete.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM,
wrote:
>
>
> And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
> AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
> https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
>
> All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
> GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
>
> And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
> general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
> requirements of the AMOC can use it.
>
> Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
>
> of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
> installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
> also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
> he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
> There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
> moved past that already.
>
> I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
> to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
>
> I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
> RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
> link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
> that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
> diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
>
> of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
>
> I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
>
> and that Time Mark line.
>
>> On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>>
>> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
>> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
>> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
>> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
>> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
>> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>>
>> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
>> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
>> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
>> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
>> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
>> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
>> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
>> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
>> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
>> for things like engine monitor data and such.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>>
>>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>>
>>> Sheldon Olesen
>>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DeWitt Whittington <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NavWorx software version |
Thanks, Ralph, for the help. I'll speak to my partners and get this done.
I vaguely remember doing this several years ago. Never thought we'd have to
do it again.
Dee
DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
Richmond, VA
804-677-4849 iPhone
804-358-4333 Home
On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 5:46 PM, Ralph E. Capen
wrote:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Dee,
>
> For the GTN650, it should display the software rev at startup.
>
> For the ADS600B, connect a serial cable to the maintenance port on the
> ADS600B - the other end goes in to your computer/laptop/etc. Start the
> NavWorx UAT console (4.1) and select the correct logical comm port for yo
ur
> computer. It may not connect the first time - so retry another logical
> comm port. When it connects, it will tell you what software you have or
> force an upgrade to the 4.1. If it connects directly, it will tell you
> that it is 4.1 already.
>
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DeWitt
> Whittington
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 3:11 PM
> To: Bob Nuckolls
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NavWorx software version
>
> -->
>
> Thanks, Ralph,
>
> So, how do I check the version of our software? As I said in the previous
> post, we sent our unit back to Bill in late July or early August, 2016. I
=99d
> suppose he would have updated the software then as well as installing the
> GPS chip.
>
> As for our GTN650 supporting ADS-B Out, thought all 650s would be ready
> for ADS-B. Anyhow, I=99ll check with John Stark who sold us the uni
t, and if
> he doesn=99t know, I=99ll get in touch with Garmin.
>
> Dee
>
> > On Nov 8, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Ralph E. Capen
> wrote:
> >
> > -->
> >
> >
> > The NavWorx 4.1 software is the latest one available that I know of -
> > it can no longer be obtained from NavWorx - but it is out there
> >
> > As for the GTN650 - make sure it supports ADS-B OUT+. You should be
> able to find it in the serial configuration of the GTN650...or contact
> Garmin.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >> From: DeWitt Whittington <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com>
> >> Sent: Nov 8, 2017 12:09 PM
> >> To: Bob Nuckolls
> >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: NavWorx software version
> >>
> >> -->
> >>
> >> We have a NavWorx ADS600-B box in our not yet flying Sportsman which
> I=99d like to keep. We also have a GTN650, so that can be our posit
ion
> source. I understand that is possible and that at least one person has
> received an Alternate Method of Compliance approval from the FAA which
> allows certified Garmin boxes for the position source. However, here is
> what I=99m not sure about. My question is how do I rind the version
of the
> software? And what version must we have in order to fly using the GTN650
as
> the position source? We sent our box back to Bill Moffitt (no charge, jus
t
> UPS back and forth) in August 2016 at which point he, I think, installed
> the GPS chip which we now know is not acceptable to the FAA.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Dee Whittington
> >> Sportsman 7034
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
Thanks to all who replied. It looks like I need a 480 software update, some more
wires run, and a contortionist friend or a box of money.
I checked up and under the panel with a borescope and there are a lot of wires
directly in the way of the connectors I need to use, and then, there is the distance
problem of the 480 being on the top of the stack. This going to take some
serious time to complete.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM,
wrote:
>
>
> And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
> AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
> https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
>
> All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
> GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
>
> And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
> general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
> requirements of the AMOC can use it.
>
> Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
>
> of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
> installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
> also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
> he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
> There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
> moved past that already.
>
> I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
> to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
>
> I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
> RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
> link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
> that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
> diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
>
> of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
>
> I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
>
> and that Time Mark line.
>
>> On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>>
>> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
>> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
>> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
>> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
>> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
>> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>>
>> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
>> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
>> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
>> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
>> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
>> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
>> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
>> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
>> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
>> for things like engine monitor data and such.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>>
>>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>>
>>> Sheldon Olesen
>>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
Thanks to all who replied. It looks like I need a 480 software update, some more
wires run, and a contortionist friend or a box of money.
I checked up and under the panel with a borescope and there are a lot of wires
directly in the way of the connectors I need to use, and then, there is the distance
problem of the 480 being on the top of the stack. This going to take some
serious time to complete.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM,
wrote:
>
>
> And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
> AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
> https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
>
> All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
> GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
>
> And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
> general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
> requirements of the AMOC can use it.
>
> Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
>
> of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
> installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
> also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
> he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
> There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
> moved past that already.
>
> I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
> to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
>
> I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
> RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
> link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
> that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
> diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
>
> of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
>
> I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
>
> and that Time Mark line.
>
>> On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>>
>> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
>> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
>> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
>> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
>> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
>> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>>
>> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
>> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
>> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
>> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
>> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
>> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
>> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
>> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
>> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
>> for things like engine monitor data and such.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>>
>>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>>
>>> Sheldon Olesen
>>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
Thanks to all who replied. It looks like I need a 480 software update, some more
wires run, and a contortionist friend or a box of money.
I checked up and under the panel with a borescope and there are a lot of wires
directly in the way of the connectors I need to use, and then, there is the distance
problem of the 480 being on the top of the stack. This going to take some
serious time to complete.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM,
wrote:
>
>
> And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
> AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
> https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
>
> All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
> GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
>
> And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
> general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
> requirements of the AMOC can use it.
>
> Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
>
> of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
> installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
> also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
> he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
> There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
> moved past that already.
>
> I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
> to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
>
> I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
> RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
> link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
> that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
> diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
>
> of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
>
> I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
>
> and that Time Mark line.
>
>> On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>>
>> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
>> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
>> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
>> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
>> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
>> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>>
>> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
>> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
>> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
>> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
>> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
>> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
>> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
>> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
>> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
>> for things like engine monitor data and such.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>>
>>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>>
>>> Sheldon Olesen
>>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
Thanks to all who replied. It looks like I need a 480 software update, some more
wires run, and a contortionist friend or a box of money.
I checked up and under the panel with a borescope and there are a lot of wires
directly in the way of the connectors I need to use, and then, there is the distance
problem of the 480 being on the top of the stack. This going to take some
serious time to complete.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM,
wrote:
>
>
> And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
> AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
> https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
>
> All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
> GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
>
> And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
> general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
> requirements of the AMOC can use it.
>
> Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
>
> of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
> installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
> also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
> he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
> There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
> moved past that already.
>
> I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
> to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
>
> I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
> RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
> link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
> that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
> diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
>
> of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
>
> I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
>
> and that Time Mark line.
>
>> On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>>
>> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
>> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
>> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
>> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
>> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
>> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>>
>> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
>> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
>> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
>> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
>> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
>> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
>> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
>> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
>> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
>> for things like engine monitor data and such.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>>
>>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>>
>>> Sheldon Olesen
>>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Many avionics trays allow the rear of the tray to be removed, or the
connectors removed, so that you can get them out to add/remove wires.
You do not want to make the connection with the connector in its normal
position.
Once I got the rear connectors removed from my GTN650, it was relatively
easy to insert the one additional wire I needed.
On 11/8/2017 7:28 PM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>
> Thanks to all who replied. It looks like I need a 480 software update, some
more wires run, and a contortionist friend or a box of money.
>
> I checked up and under the panel with a borescope and there are a lot of wires
directly in the way of the connectors I need to use, and then, there is the
distance problem of the 480 being on the top of the stack. This going to take
some serious time to complete.
>
>
> Sheldon Olesen
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM,
wrote:
>>
>>
>> And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
>> AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
>> https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
>>
>> All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
>> GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
>>
>> And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
>> general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
>> requirements of the AMOC can use it.
>>
>> Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
>>
>> Jim Parker
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
>> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
>> Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>> One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
>>
>> of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
>> installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
>> also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
>> he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
>> There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
>> moved past that already.
>>
>> I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
>> to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
>>
>> I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
>> RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
>> link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
>> that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
>> diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
>>
>> of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
>>
>> I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
>>
>> and that Time Mark line.
>>
>>> On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>>>
>>> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
>>> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
>>> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
>>> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
>>> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
>>> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>>>
>>> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
>>> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
>>> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
>>> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
>>> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
>>> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
>>> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
>>> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
>>> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
>>> for things like engine monitor data and such.
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>>>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>>>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>>>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>>>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>>>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>>>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>>>
>>>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>>>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>>>
>>>> Sheldon Olesen
>>>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
Thanks to all who replied. It looks like I need a 480 software update, some more
wires run, and a contortionist friend or a box of money.
I checked up and under the panel with a borescope and there are a lot of wires
directly in the way of the connectors I need to use, and then, there is the distance
problem of the 480 being on the top of the stack. This going to take some
serious time to complete.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM,
wrote:
>
>
> And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
> AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
> https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
>
> All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
> GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
>
> And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
> general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
> requirements of the AMOC can use it.
>
> Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
>
> of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
> installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
> also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
> he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
> There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
> moved past that already.
>
> I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
> to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
>
> I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
> RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
> link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
> that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
> diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
>
> of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
>
> I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
>
> and that Time Mark line.
>
>> On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>>
>> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
>> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
>> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
>> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
>> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
>> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>>
>> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
>> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
>> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
>> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
>> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
>> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
>> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
>> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
>> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
>> for things like engine monitor data and such.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>>
>>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>>
>>> Sheldon Olesen
>>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
Thanks to all who replied. It looks like I need a 480 software update, some more
wires run, and a contortionist friend or a box of money.
I checked up and under the panel with a borescope and there are a lot of wires
directly in the way of the connectors I need to use, and then, there is the distance
problem of the 480 being on the top of the stack. This going to take some
serious time to complete.
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM,
wrote:
>
>
> And just in case you haven't already found it, here is the link to an
> AOPA page that shows the various approved AMOC for the NavWorx AD:
> https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/ads-b/navworx-amoc-information
>
> All three of the AMOC described on that page are for Garmin equipment:
> GTN6xx/GTN7xx, GNC4xxW/GNC5xxW, and GNS480.
>
> And in somewhat unusual behavior for the FAA, all of them are "AMOCs of
> general applicability" so that any affected aircraft owner who meets the
> requirements of the AMOC can use it.
>
> Good luck to all the NavWorx purchasers!
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RS-232 and Navworx
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> Date: Wed, November 08, 2017 11:14 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> One issue you may want to carefully look at (in addition to availability
>
> of the ADS-B+ protocol on the 480); All the diagrams in the Navworx
> installation manual that show the RS232 connection for the GPS source,
> also have you connecting up 1 or 2 "Time Mark" lines. I also noted that
> he 480 diagram for GPS source only showed an ARINC connection option.
> There wasn't a diagram for an RS232 connection but I'm guessing you've
> moved past that already.
>
> I don't know exactly what the "Time Mark " line does but it's unique
> to the GPS source connection for Navworx.
>
> I have a G430w and (3) GRT HX EFISs. There is already a multi-point
> RS232 GPS connection in my installation and it occurred to me to just
> link the Navworx box to it just as you are planning. I agree with Tim
> that it would not be a problem. But following the installation
> diagrams. I was forced to go get that Time Mark connection from the back
>
> of the G430, so I got a dedicated RS232-Out connection at the same time.
>
> I would suggest investigating both availability of the ADS-B+ protocol
>
> and that Time Mark line.
>
>> On 11/8/2017 11:21 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm not what I'd call an expert, but I think I can answer this one ok.
>>
>> First, if you're using the 480, make sure that the intended
>> position source setting is what you need for the NavWorX.
>> I have not done this myself but it sounds like ADSB+, not
>> just ADSB. Bob Leffler probably knows best on this, and I'm not
>> sure if you would need to also be at the latest 480 firmware or not.
>> Bob, can you chime in and correct me or educate me on this part?
>>
>> But, assuming it is the same data stream, you should be able to
>> drive all 3 receivers with no issue, if they are all uni-directional
>> connections. Distances within the airplane really won't matter,
>> as they really aren't *that* long. And, if you already have
>> signal grounds going to other pins, it's unlikely that you would
>> have a problem if you ignored it for that new additional wire.
>> You may still want to connect the shield, but the actual
>> signal ground will probably work just fine. I have a couple of
>> serial runs on my planes that don't have serial grounds connected,
>> for things like engine monitor data and such.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 11/8/2017 9:27 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to use my GNS480 as the position source for my Navworx
>>> unit. The 480 is located at the top of stack and access is very
>>> difficult for running new wires. I thought I could use a wire that
>>> is already going to my GRT for the position source. The question is:
>>> How many RS-232 receivers can one transmitter drive? I am trying to
>>> drive 3 receivers from one transmitter. Does distance matter, since
>>> the Navworx unit is aft of the baggage bulkhead?
>>>
>>> A grounding question: The Navworx unit has 3 or 4 signal ground
>>> pins, one of which already goes to the 480, do I need another?
>>>
>>> Sheldon Olesen
>>> RV-10 475PV 789hrs
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button... |
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RS-232 and Navworx |
At 04:39 PM 11/8/2017, you wrote:
>
>Might be worth noting that NMEA0183 uses the EIA-422 (sometimes
>known as RS-422) not RS-232.
NMEA0183 is a digital language that can be conveyed
on RS232, 422, 485, fiber optics or even bluetooth.
The "RS" conventions speak to voltage levels, and
transmission lines and are totally independent
of 'language'.
RS232 is a single wire signal operating against ground
that swings above and below ground to represent "1"
or "0". That voltage may be as high as +/-12 volts
but I've built systems that ran quite happily on
+/-5v. I had one project that ran +5/=12 . . .
the exact voltage is not critical, it's he
transition from + to = and vise versa that carries
the information.
RS422 is a balanced pair of wires where the signal
polarities alternate between the two wires. RS422
transceivers generally operated in the 5v world so
the voltage between the two lines is generally 5v
with data being carried on polarity reversals.
There are integrated circuits designed to translate
422>232 or 232>422 . . . either convention can
carry NMEA0183 messages . . . or any other
protocol.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | z13/8 ess bus feed |
| From: | "mmcelrea" <mmcelrea(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi. Building an RV7 in the UK with a G3X system and thinking of using the z13/8
architecture with the SD8 backup alt and GAD27 to maintain voltage to the GDU
etc during engine start. Is it normal or acceptable to keep the essential bus
alternate feed on during flight in case of battery contactor failure? I'd rather
not add a second battery.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474842#474842
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <mike(at)vision499.com> |
| Subject: | Transponder antenna |
In a composite aircraft does the transponder antenna have to be outside the
fuselage?
If it can be inside how do you make a ground plane?
Is it OK to be close to the COM antenna
Thanks
Mike
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
Mike,
FWIW, I used the Archer transponder antenna for composite aircraft. It is a
full wave antenna that doesn=99t require a ground plane. Works grea
t.
Having a warm body close to a comm antenna will distort the transmission pat
tern. But it would be difficult to say how much. Better if it were some d
istance away. I have my comm antenna in the tail.
Blue skies & tail winds,
Bob Borger
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 11, 2017, at 18:13, mike(at)vision499.com wrote:
In a composite aircraft does the transponder antenna have to be outside the f
uselage?
If it can be inside how do you make a ground plane?
Is it OK to be close to the COM antenna
Thanks
Mike
Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
| From: | "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com> |
Mike,
> In a composite aircraft does the transponder antenna have to be outside the fuselage?
No, none of the antennas have to be outside the aircraft.
> If it can be inside how do you make a ground plane?
Check out the Advanced Aircraft Electronics L2 Transponder Antenna made specifically
for composite aircraft, no ground plane required and costs less than $100.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/antennasystems1.php?clickkey=4083
> Is it OK to be close to the COM antenna?
If you mean the transponder antenna, from my understanding no. I think you want
to be as far away as possible, within reason. Different antennas may have different
requirements.
Cheers,
Wade
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ N916WP
www.longezpush.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474854#474854
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Stecher <mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Simple EFIS backup battery wiring |
I need to install a small battery on my MGS Extreme so that it can be kept
up and running during engine start for my VFR 601XL.=C2-I would like to k
eep the wiring as simple as possible, but also allow the 1.2 AH battery to
be maintained by the alternator.=C2-MGL has an example that uses a diode
and switch to power the backup pin on another system, but the Extreme does
not include this.How has everyone else handled this?Thanks,Matt StecherSkyd
ive Houston Airpark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Simple EFIS backup battery wiring |
I have a GRT EFIS and here's how I did mine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474858#474858
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_331.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Simple EFIS backup battery wiring |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Here is a circuit similar to the above. A battery fuse and switch could be added
if desired.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474860#474860
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_905.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Simple EFIS backup battery wiring |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
And if you want max voltage available in a simple circuit like that,
Schottky diodes are pretty cheap now. Just search ebay for lots of
options. Somewhat lower forward voltage drop than silicon.
On 11/12/2017 5:48 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Here is a circuit similar to the above. A battery fuse and switch could be added
if desired.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: z13/8 ess bus feed |
At 05:49 PM 11/11/2017, you wrote:
>
>Hi. Building an RV7 in the UK with a G3X system and thinking of
>using the z13/8 architecture with the SD8 backup alt and GAD27 to
>maintain voltage to the GDU etc during engine start. Is it normal or
>acceptable to keep the essential bus alternate feed on during flight
>in case of battery contactor failure? I'd rather not add a second battery.
Battery contactors seldom fail in fight . . . I use
the word 'seldom' because the rate is fanishingly
small. I've never encountered such a failure.
A contactor on the edge of failure will raise caution
flags by causing fussy starts or failure to close
during start up.
Even if it does fail, you probably wouldn't know it
until the next preflight.
The airplane will continue to run on the self
excited alternator. But if you want to fly around with
the alternate feed switch closed, it doesn't hurt
anything but it's unnecessary.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
mike(at)vision499.com wrote:
> In a composite aircraft does the transponder antenna have to be outside the fuselage?
If your composite is fiberglass, it does not have to be on the outside. If it's
carbon fiber, then you may have some issues.
mike(at)vision499.com wrote:
>
> If it can be inside how do you make a ground plane?
I used aluminum. Here's how I built mine.
http://www.velocity-xl.com/blog/2013/11/07/13-99-transponder-antenna-ground-plane/
mike(at)vision499.com wrote:
> Is it OK to be close to the COM antenna
In a perfect world, they would be as far apart as possible. I'm sure there's a
recommended minimum. But I don't know what that is.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474866#474866
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
That design is great for those of us who are financially challenged; you
can buy the little spike antenna for around $20. Add a bit of scrap
aluminum & you're done.
On 11/12/2017 7:02 PM, donjohnston wrote:
>
>
> mike(at)vision499.com wrote:
>> In a composite aircraft does the transponder antenna have to be outside the
fuselage?
> If your composite is fiberglass, it does not have to be on the outside. If it's
carbon fiber, then you may have some issues.
>
>
> mike(at)vision499.com wrote:
>> If it can be inside how do you make a ground plane?
> I used aluminum. Here's how I built mine.
> http://www.velocity-xl.com/blog/2013/11/07/13-99-transponder-antenna-ground-plane/
>
>
> mike(at)vision499.com wrote:
>> Is it OK to be close to the COM antenna
> In a perfect world, they would be as far apart as possible. I'm sure there's
a recommended minimum. But I don't know what that is.
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
> That design is great for those of us who are financially challenged; you
> can buy the little spike antenna for around $20. Add a bit of scrap
> aluminum & you're done.
Not sure about the "financially challenged" comment. I didn't see the benefit to
spending $100's on something that I could build for about $25.
If that makes me "Financially challenged" then so be it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474871#474871
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
An earlier post mentioned a dipole for ~$100.00. The $20+aluminum scrap
is the alternative for us 'financially challenged'. When I wrote 'That
design', I was referring to the spike.
On 11/12/2017 8:50 PM, donjohnston wrote:
>
>
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> That design is great for those of us who are financially challenged; you
>> can buy the little spike antenna for around $20. Add a bit of scrap
>> aluminum & you're done.
>
> Not sure about the "financially challenged" comment. I didn't see the benefit
to spending $100's on something that I could build for about $25.
>
> If that makes me "Financially challenged" then so be it.
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
| From: | "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com> |
> If your composite is fiberglass, it does not have to be on the outside. If it's
carbon fiber, then you may have some issues.
Good point. I should have noted the carbon fiber caveat.
I went the same way you did initially Don, and it is fairly easy and cost effective.
But then after I ran across a few builders who used the L2, it solved my
issue of finding a location for mounting the antenna, and also kept from having
anything poking out (for us non-CF folks!).
Cheers,
Wade
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ N916WP
www.longezpush.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474872#474872
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: z13/8 ess bus feed |
| From: | "mmcelrea" <mmcelrea(at)hotmail.com> |
Thankyou Bob
I am building the aircraft with approval for IFR flight here in the UK and the
LAA are concerned about single failure points. Using the Z13.8 architecture is
it possible to monitor if the backup alternator is working, even if its not supplying?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474874#474874
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Stearns <steve(at)tomasara.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
A word of caution related to putting your transponder antenna inside your
cabin...
*IF* you are or will be using an ADS-B out 1090 MHz transponder on the
antenna in question be aware that it's output is enough different than the
non-ADS-B transponder that where the later would work with no problem, the
former may inject "ticks" into your audio.
My antenna is an exterior antenna just under my legs with a minimum (1/4
wave radius) circular ground plane (it's been tested and provides and
excellent match) and when I switched from a traditional transponder to a
Garmin GTX-335 ticks were introduced into the audio. I've got an otherwise
very tight and well performing audio install with very careful
consideration of grounds, returns etc.
I've debugged enough to be *quite* certain that the interference path is
from the energy radiated off of the antenna itself into the mic circuitry
on my panel mount Sigtronics intercom.
If you google a bit, you will discover that there are many people who
similarly had ticks introduced into their audio once they upgraded their
1090 MHz transponder to being ADS-B out capable.
Though I believe the real fix in my install will be to make my intercom
less sensitive to RF Field pulses, I'm still not considering moving my
transponder antenna inside as it would certainly make the problem worse...
I might consider it in the future once I mitigate the tick issue with it in
its current location.
Steve Stearns
Longeze N45FC
Boulder/Longmont CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... |
Since the beginning, the Matronics List and Forum experience has been free from
advertising. I have been approached by fair number of vendors wanting to tap
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Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
| From: | "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com> |
Steve,
Good to know!
And clearly, this is a lesson for me to be more clear... :)
> A word of caution related to putting your transponder antenna inside your cabin...
Although I know you're talking about the "old style" antenna, I plan on mounting
the L2 antenna at the outboard end of the strake at the junction with the wing.
Still quite a ways from the comm antenna in the vertical winglet, but also
a decent ways out from the pilot/GIB and cabin electronics.
Cheers,
Wade
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ N916WP
www.longezpush.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474955#474955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: z13/8 ess bus feed |
At 05:16 AM 11/13/2017, you wrote:
>
>Thankyou Bob
>I am building the aircraft with approval for IFR flight here in the
>UK and the LAA are concerned about single failure points. Using the
>Z13.8 architecture is it possible to monitor if the backup
>alternator is working, even if its not supplying?
Not really . . . but demonstrated failure rates
on the SD8 used in standby service is essentially
zero. The system runs stone cold in normal flight
meaning that thermal wear/tear on components and materials
is zero, there are no brushes or slip rings. Further
system is both pre-flight and in=flight testable.
Don't know how you would get better reliability
numbers on an engine driven power source.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Double stick foam anchors |
Folks,
Is there any reason why I should not use one of these anchors with the
double stick foam in a position such as this?
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
Hi Art;
I have tried these (or something like them). The ones I tried had the adhesive
already applied. Some of them came unstuck after a while. If there is a way to
put a small rivet through the center, I would do it.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Art Zemon" <art(at)zemon.name>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:54:58 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
Folks,
Is there any reason why I should not use one of these anchors with the double stick
foam in a position such as this?
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The main reason not to use them is, like Stu said, they come unstuck after time.
If you must use them, clean the aluminum with acetone first.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474975#474975
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Bartrim <bartrim(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
Aaahh, sticky-back zip-tie anchors, love 'em & hate 'em. I use them at work
often. Sometimes they hold with a permanent bond and are very difficult to
remove and often they do not hold at all. Over all, they do work well if
you have a clean surface and apply in warm environment. But don't count on
it.
Todd
C-FSTB
Todd Bartrim
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:05 PM, wrote:
> Hi Art;
> I have tried these (or something like them). The ones I tried had the
> adhesive already applied. Some of them came unstuck after a while. If there
> is a way to put a small rivet through the center, I would do it.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Art Zemon" <art(at)zemon.name>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:54:58 PM
> *Subject: *AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
>
>
> Folks,
>
> Is there any reason why I should not use one of these anchors with the
> double stick foam in a position such as this?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com> |
| Subject: | Double stick foam anchors |
Or remove the adhesive and use JB Weld.
Tim
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
Hi Art;
I have tried these (or something like them). The ones I tried had the
adhesive already applied. Some of them came unstuck after a while. If
there is a way to put a small rivet through the center, I would do it.
Cheers! Stu.
_____
From: "Art Zemon" <art(at)zemon.name <mailto:art(at)zemon.name> >
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:54:58 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
Folks,
Is there any reason why I should not use one of these anchors with the
double stick foam in a position such as this?
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Kuntz <paul.r.kuntz(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
If you use just the sticky back foam mounting, any constant load, even
small, will eventually pull free. As suggested by a previous post, I just
scrape off the foam backing, roughen the surface with coarse sandpaper and
mount the pads with JB Weld. It takes a few minutes but you=99ll onl
y do it
once.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 20:01 Tim Yoder wrote:
> Or remove the adhesive and use JB Weld.
>
>
> Tim
>
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *
> ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:05 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
>
>
> Hi Art;
>
> I have tried these (or something like them). The ones I tried had the
> adhesive already applied. Some of them came unstuck after a while. If the
re
> is a way to put a small rivet through the center, I would do it.
>
> Cheers! Stu.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Art Zemon" <art(at)zemon.name>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:54:58 PM
> *Subject: *AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
>
>
> Folks,
>
>
> Is there any reason why I should not use one of these anchors with the
> double stick foam in a position such as this?
>
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: z13/8 ess bus feed |
| From: | "mmcelrea" <mmcelrea(at)hotmail.com> |
Is the SD8 on/available during normal flight? If the output is fed through a diode
would that prevent the alternators 'competing' or is the voltage set at lower
level than the main alternator and monitoring voltage and amps output from
both alternators?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474981#474981
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bcone1381" <bcone1964(at)gmail.com> |
In the beginning phase of planning the architecture of my electrical system. I
have never done this before, and appreciate your mentoring. I have two questions
for you after reading thru the background for the questions
The 12th edition of the Aero Electric Connection book Chapter 17 is titled Electrical
System Reliability. In this CH, Bob introduces us to a Cessna electrical
system, then provides reliability improvements. Bob expands the Avionics Bus
to serve as an Essential Bus, and then replaces the Cessna avionics master
with a diode for its normal power feed.
The alternate power feed from the Battery to the Essential Bus shown in the CH17
example is a simple switch. This improvement over the Cessna system removes
the 1 amp draw of the Batter Contactor. Thats Great, I love it.
But, when I check out the Z-13/8 diagram, it shows an S704-1 relay....supplied
by B&C.
Questions:
1) Why don't we use a switch as discussed in Ch 17?
2) What is the amp draw of this Relay? Maybe thats a Q. for B&C
--------
Brooks Cone
Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474982#474982
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_11_15_at_62544_am_126.png
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_11_15_at_61506_am_139.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
3M Extreme Mounting Tape 13M Extreme Mounting Tape 1
I removed the sticky stuff on some of mine that were coming loose and
replaced them with "Scotch Extremely Strong" mounting tape. So far so good!
Harley
On 11/14/2017 11:08 PM, Paul Kuntz wrote:
> If you use just the sticky back foam mounting, any constant load, even
> small, will eventually pull free. As suggested by a previous post, I
> just scrape off the foam backing, roughen the surface with coarse
> sandpaper and mount the pads with JB Weld. It takes a few minutes but
> youll only do it once.
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 20:01 Tim Yoder > wrote:
>
> Or remove the adhesive and use JB Weld.
>
> Tim
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] *On Behalf
> Of *ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:05 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
>
> Hi Art;
>
> I have tried these (or something like them). The ones I tried had
> the adhesive already applied. Some of them came unstuck after a
> while. If there is a way to put a small rivet through the center,
> I would do it.
>
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Art Zemon" <art(at)zemon.name <mailto:art(at)zemon.name>>
> *To: *aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:54:58 PM
> *Subject: *AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
>
> Folks,
>
> Is there any reason why I should not use one of these anchors with
> the double stick foam in a position such as this?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
That tape is extremely strong...very hard to remove(but not as permanent
as JB Weld). It is commonly found in auto parts stores labeled for
mounting body trim strips.
On 11/15/2017 6:23 AM, Harley Dixon wrote:
> 3M Extreme Mounting Tape 13M Extreme Mounting Tape 1
> I removed the sticky stuff on some of mine that were coming loose and
> replaced them with "Scotch Extremely Strong" mounting tape. So far so good!
>
> Harley
>
> On 11/14/2017 11:08 PM, Paul Kuntz wrote:
>> If you use just the sticky back foam mounting, any constant load, even
>> small, will eventually pull free. As suggested by a previous post, I
>> just scrape off the foam backing, roughen the surface with coarse
>> sandpaper and mount the pads with JB Weld. It takes a few minutes but
>> youll only do it once.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 inquiry |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
A relay can be used for remote control. That allows the circuit to be shut off
near the battery without running always-hot wires into the cockpit. Shutting
off power near the source is important in case of smoke in the cockpit or in
case of an imminent forced landing.
A small switch can control a relay. A relay can control a larger current.
The relay manufacturer's data sheet will state the current draw. I think that
the current will be less than 1/10 amp.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474985#474985
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLE <rv6awingman(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Double stick foam anchors |
I've been using a dab of "shoe glue" right on the anchors without removing
their adhesive. Seems to work. Shoe glue is tough stuff but can be
removed if needed unlike JB Weld.
Marty
From: Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
Folks,
Is there any reason why I should not use one of these anchors with the
double stick foam in a position such as this?
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
I suppose that I could use a squirt of RTV, too. In the spots that I am
considering, there are only a few wires and there will be no significant
force pulling on the mount.
Thanks for the feedback, folks.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:53 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> kellym(at)aviating.com>
>
> That tape is extremely strong...very hard to remove(but not as permanent
> as JB Weld). It is commonly found in auto parts stores labeled for mounting
> body trim strips.
>
> On 11/15/2017 6:23 AM, Harley Dixon wrote:
>
>> 3M Extreme Mounting Tape 13M Extreme Mounting Tape 1
>
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
It really isn't the amount of force that will do them in but the changes in
temperature, vibration, and TIME.=C2- Some may hold for a while but if y
ou really want them to stay, remove the foam stick tape and bond them with
adhesive.=C2- I have them installed throughout the inside of my plane and
all have been bonded in place.=C2- Have tried to remove a couple of them
and they are in place permanently.=C2- It takes maybe a minute extra per
but well worth the effort in the long run, especially if they are in tight
places that are hard to get to later on.
Bob
From: Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Double stick foam anchors
I suppose that I could use a squirt of RTV, too. In the spots that I am con
sidering, there are only a few wires and there will be no significant force
pulling on the mount.
Thanks for the feedback, folks.
Cheers,=C2- =C2- -- Art Z.
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:53 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote
:
m>
That tape is extremely strong...very hard to remove(but not as permanent as
JB Weld). It is commonly found in auto parts stores labeled for mounting b
ody trim strips.
On 11/15/2017 6:23 AM, Harley Dixon wrote:
3M Extreme Mounting Tape 13M Extreme Mounting Tape 1
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists
are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are covered solely
through your Contributions during this time of the year.
*Your* personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics
Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running for another
great year!
Use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by sending a personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 inquiry |
At 05:41 AM 11/15/2017, you wrote:
>
>In the beginning phase of planning the architecture of my electrical
>system. I have never done this before, and appreciate your
>mentoring. I have two questions for you after reading thru the
>background for the questions
>
>The 12th edition of the Aero Electric Connection book Chapter 17 is
>titled Electrical System Reliability. In this CH, Bob introduces us
>to a Cessna electrical system, then provides reliability
>improvements. Bob expands the Avionics Bus to serve as an Essential
>Bus, and then replaces the Cessna avionics master with a diode for
>its normal power feed.
>
>The alternate power feed from the Battery to the Essential Bus shown
>in the CH17 example is a simple switch. This improvement over the
>Cessna system removes the 1 amp draw of the Batter Contactor. Thats
>Great, I love it.
>
>But, when I check out the Z-13/8 diagram, it shows an S704-1
>relay....supplied by B&C.
>
>Questions:
>1) Why don't we use a switch as discussed in Ch 17?
>2) What is the amp draw of this Relay? Maybe thats a Q. for B&C
The e-bus was, as far as I can remember, first
installed on a LongEz about 1985. I was talking
with a reader one night on the phone. He was in
California if memory serves. His engine driven power
source was the SD8 alternator . . .
We were discussing his load analysis
http://tinyurl.com/9rt6ymn
http://tinyurl.com/7jqypwj
While running through the list of electro-
whizzies needed for comfortable continuation
of flight. battery only, to intended destination,
a major component of electrical loads was
the battery contactor . . . it's current
draw after warm up and at battery only voltages
was on the order of 0.6A.
http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t
http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo
Contactor power would not be available to run endurance
loads during battery only operations.
During that conversation, we crafted what
started out as an 'essential' bus but later
corrected to 'endurance' bus. The goal
during that conversation was to craft a system
whereby a long distance flight would NOT be
limited not by battery capacity but by fuel
aboard.
As I recall, his endurance loads were finally
pared down to about 2.2 amps. His design goal
for battery only ops was 4 hours. This meant
that a battery at end of service life had to
support his 2.2A load for 4 hours. If end
of service life was 75% of new capacity, then
a new battery needed to support 2.2A for
at least 5.5 hours.
I don't recall what constellation of battery products
were in popular consideration back then but let
us suppose that same conversation was today and
the Hawker PC680 was one of several candidates
under consideration.
Emacs!
Here we see that a 2.2A load on a new battery is good for
5 hours . . . barely adequate to the design goal. Leaving
a 0.6A battery contactor load in the mix would have dropped
new battery endurance to 4 hours.
The endurance bus with dual feed paths was birthed that
evening. The 2.2A endurance load could be tapped directly
from the battery bus through a fuse of 7.5 amps or less.
This brings up another design goal for making direct
connections to batteries. The legacy design conventions
in type certified aircraft called for always hot feeders to
be protected at no more than 5A. The idea was to limit
the battery's ability to start fires in the event of
a landing that was really hard to walk away from.
TC designs for taking power away from the battery at
greater current levels had to be crew controlled
like the battery contactor. As our OBAM aircraft
evolved, some design goals called for e-bus loads
exceeding that which could be carried on 7.5A fuse
(we adopted 7A over the 5A figure because fuses
are MANY times faster than breakers).
So you see, there is no cookie-cutter answer to
your question. Using an e-bus alternate feed
relay is a decision driven by (1) establishment
of design goals for flight in the endurance
mode (2) selection hardware you're going to run
in the endurance mode, (3) selecting battery
capacity to meet the goal and (4) PERIODIC MAINTENANCE
checks to MAINTAIN the battery at the required
capacity.
This conversation took place years before Z13/8 . . .
a time when vacuum pumps were being installed
on large numbers of OBAM aircraft. As the such-n-blow
instruments began to disappear from the panels, the
vacuum pump pad became the ideal real estate for
installing a SECOND engine driven power source and
the SD8 was an obvious choice.
Z13/8 was crafted to exploit that real estate
and allow the builder to craft an e-bus load
value on the order of 8A. Battery capacity was
no longer the primary consideration for endurance
after loss of main alternator.
Hence the development of Z32 which installs a relay
to serve as a kind of mini-battery contactor that
gives the crew direct control over that feeder
AT THE BATTERY protected by a 10A fuse.
It follows that the relay (which draws about 0.1A)
is only needed if e-bus loads exceed 5A or so in
the ENDURANCE mode . . . in the case of Z13/8,
maximum endurance load without taxing the battery
is 8A and the feeder is a bit fatter wire. So
the e-bus alternate feed relay became a permanent
feature in Z13/8 revision T.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
At 08:03 AM 11/15/2017, you wrote:
>I've been using a dab of "shoe glue" right on
>the anchors without removing their
>adhesive.=C2 Seems to work.=C2 Shoe glue is tough
>stuff but can be removed if needed unlike JB Weld.
Sho Goo, like its industrial cousin E6000 was
the adhesive of choice for crafting and installing
bond studs to surfaces without drilling holes.
http://tinyurl.com/ydasnwk9
http://tinyurl.com/j2gxbqy
Early studies for suitable adhesives included
JB weld but while it does get a good grip
on things, it's not as compliant nor
does it adhere to slick and/or plastic
surfaces as the E6000. My adhesive of
choice would be the E6000.
3M does produce VHB (very high bond) mounting
tapes that are quite strong
http://tinyurl.com/ydfql26k
Run some tests with any alternative adhesive.
Bond the part down. Wait 24 hours and then
pull it off. What breaks first and how
hard was it to get it off.
Generally speaking, bonded on fasteners
should be used only for non-structural,
low risk security on wire bundles, coax
feeders, perhaps NylaFlo pitot or static
pressure lines.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: z13/8 ess bus feed |
At 02:50 AM 11/15/2017, you wrote:
>
>Is the SD8 on/available during normal flight? If the output is fed
>through a diode would that prevent the alternators 'competing' or is
>the voltage set at lower level than the main alternator and
>monitoring voltage and amps output from both alternators?
You can run it during normal flight . . . but why?
It's a STANDBY alternator that demonstrates exceptional
reliability by sitting there doing NOTHING until
pressed into service as a consequence of main
alternator failure.
It should be pre-flight tested . . . but allowed
to sit in cold repose waiting for the rare failure
of the main alternator.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 inquiry |
| From: | "bcone1381" <bcone1964(at)gmail.com> |
I feel like I am starting to dissect an onion....so many layers. Your explanation
of the TC design goals makes clear the need for the contractor.
The Load analysis information you just shared must be my next path to start exploring.
This will be ton of fun to figure out.
Thanks so much.
I know of nowhere that an aircraft builder can get clear answers to questions based
on truth and principle and void of opinion and heresy.
--------
Brooks Cone
Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475072#475072
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Burnett <ronburnett(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Generator to Alt on Cessna210 |
A friend is replacing his generator with a certified Plane Power Alternator and
PP regulator. We are wondering if the noise filter is built in the FAA/PMA alternator?
If so, the fat wires from the alternator could be bolted to the fat wire from the
noise filter that runs to the panel.
This is a PMA approved part and will be signed off and inspected. My friend is
trying to do the hook up beforehand.
Thanks for any help
Ron Burnett
May you have the Lord's blessings today!
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
Bob,
That's exactly the situation I have. There are a few places where I want to
secure a small wire bundle and the most convenient thing to attach it to is
the .025 aluminum skin of the plane. There are also a couple of places
where I want to tie up a single coax and there is no rigid structure.
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> Generally speaking, bonded on fasteners
> should be used only for non-structural,
> low risk security on wire bundles, coax
> feeders, perhaps NylaFlo pitot or static
> pressure lines.
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Generator to Alt on Cessna210 |
At 12:15 PM 11/15/2017, you wrote:
>
>A friend is replacing his generator with a certified Plane Power
>Alternator and PP regulator. We are wondering if the noise filter
>is built in the FAA/PMA alternator?
If no noise filter is supplied, then it's
presumed not necessary unless demonstrated
in subsequent flight testing.
>If so, the fat wires from the alternator could be bolted to the fat
>wire from the noise filter that runs to the panel.
>
>This is a PMA approved part and will be signed off and
>inspected. My friend is trying to do the hook up beforehand.
Install per instructions which are part
of the STC/PMA . . . if no noise filter is
included then it's not necessary.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Double stick foam anchors |
At 01:11 PM 11/15/2017, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>That's exactly the situation I have. There are a few places where I
>want to secure a small wire bundle and the most convenient thing to
>attach it to is the .025 aluminum skin of the plane. There are also
>a couple of places where I want to tie up a single coax and there is
>no rigid structure.
yup . . . that's what the bond studs are all
about. We used them in production on a number
of models at Beech. But these were "qualified"
parts that were two orders of magnitude more
expensive than a McMaster-Carr stud stuck to
the aircraft with E6000.
I've got no heartburn with the Nylon cable mounts.
If one were to seek out the epitome of this
methodology you would look for products like this:
6/6 black nylon, very high bond adhesive pads.
I've not been able to find anyone offering less
than bags of 100. Here's one offering from
Allied Electronics.
http://tinyurl.com/y7qjqy2m
Digikey has them too but higher priced
and lots of 100 minimum
http://tinyurl.com/y7rel4q4
Perhaps a few builders could team up and
buy a bag to split.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Simple EFIS backup battery wiring |
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
> I need to install a small battery on my MGS Extreme so that it can be kept up
and running during engine start for my VFR 601XL. I would like to keep the wiring
as simple as possible, but also allow the 1.2 AH battery to be maintained
by the alternator. MGL has an example that uses a diode and switch to power the
backup pin on another system, but the Extreme does not include this.
> How has everyone else handled this?
First, let me say: full credit to Eric Jones. What follows is thanks to his design
and prototyping work.
About four years ago when this topic came up...
...on the second page here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=98976
...then continued here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=99301
...and here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=99555
...Eric Jones designed a "De-Slumpifier" or voltage slump eliminator circuit using
supercapacitors (see his schematic at the second link above, and mine attached
below). Another forum member (Joe, "user9253") successfully tested Eric's
prototype in his RV-12, but Eric decided that additional capacitance was needed.
I've adapted Eric's design to increase capacitance from 0.25F to 0.55F and to match
the balance resistors to the new capacitors' leakage current specification.
Otherwise, the design is largely unchanged. I've also prepared a circuit
board layout, so that the device can be easily duplicated by anyone who needs
it.
If you're trying to prevent EFIS/EMS brownout/reboot during engine start, this
will do the trick. Note, however, that this device is not an endurance supply
and it won't support a load in the event of bus failure or shutdown. The device
would cost about $40 to build, and it would eliminate the periodic testing
and replacement associated with a battery installation. It's designed to fit
a 2" x 2-3/4" box, and it will weigh just a few ounces.
Operation is simple: apply bus power and ground to the input, and route output
power and ground to the EFIS/EMS. Assuming a fully charged battery at ~12.7V,
the bus will charge the capacitors to ~12.3V within 20 seconds once power is
applied. During engine cranking, the capacitors will power the EFIS/EMS at >8V
(minimum for the MGL Xtreme units) for ~13 seconds, assuming a 2.8W load. [The
MGL Xtreme manuals specify power draw of 130mA at 13.8V for the EMS and 200mA
at 13.8V for the EFIS; the latter equals 2.8W.] Assuming a healthy battery
and an engine that starts within a few seconds, your EFIS/EMS won't brownout/reboot.
You can order the parts and assemble it yourself, or I'd be happy to do it for
you for the cost of parts and postage. Here's a link for a .ZIP file on my Google
Drive that contains my DipTrace CAD files, as well the RS-274X Gerber files
needed to order the printed circuit board: https://preview.tinyurl.com/yajod9m6
If you'd like some guidance on ordering the boards and components --or-- if you'd
like me to assemble one and send it to you, just let me know. It would take
2-3 weeks, so you'd have it within a month or so.
If anyone else wants one, just chime in. Up to ten copies will not increase the
cost of PCB production, so I can make several for just the incremental cost
of components.
Eric
P.S. A few items to note if you assemble this yourself:
1. Diode D1 is a bidirectional transient voltage suppressor. It can be installed
in either direction, regardless of its markings.
2. Diodes D2-D4 are installed standing on end, with the cathode (white band) facing
up, away from the board. Fold the cathode lead over the diode's body, so
it goes through the pad hole next to the body.
3. If it were my airplane, I would use the bottom of the box as a mounting base
and install the device without the top of the box attached. The large resistor
briefly dissipates substantial energy as heat when the supercapacitors are
charging, and the capacitors will live longer, happier lives if that heat isn't
dumped inside an enclosed space.
4. A blob of *neutral cure* RTV silicone or Shoe Goo around the base of the large
TO-220 resistor will promote long-term durability. Its leads support both
the resistor body and the heatsink, so in an environment subject to g-loads and
vibration, added mechanical support will relieve stress from the leads. [Do
*not* use standard "kitchen and bath" silicone on electronics; the vinegar smell
while it cures is acetic acid, a corrosive.]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475087#475087
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/voltage_slump_eliminator_214.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Simple EFIS backup battery wiring |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Good job Eric Page. Some aircraft owners and/or builders will appreciate your
work.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475094#475094
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com> |
Eric & Alec,
> Once we hear from Wade that his EFIS and video adapter handle the camera feed
switching OK, I'll edit the schematic and work on a board layout.
Just wanted to let you guys know I hooked up 3 cameras to the switching unit that
you recommended Eric and fed it into the GRT EFIS via the switching unit's
RCA jack out into the USB adapter.
The switching worked fine, albeit their is a VERY brief (less than half a second)
skewing of the screen as it goes from one video input to the other. You have
to be looking right at it to see it.
Again, it all looked fine to me. If we could eliminate the skewing it'd be nice,
but definitely not a showstopper.
Cheers,
Wade
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ N916WP
www.longezpush.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475098#475098
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Airdog77 wrote:
> The switching worked fine, albeit their is a VERY brief (less than half a second)
skewing of the screen as it goes from one video input to the other. You
have to be looking right at it to see it.
I'm glad to hear it works OK and the EFIS doesn't lose sync on the video signal.
Thinking out loud here... the brief skewing you see may have something to do
with the mechanical switch. Perhaps it's a break-before-make type, so for several
milliseconds there's no signal present. With the switching done electronically,
the loss of signal will be reduced to a few tens of nanoseconds, so
that issue *may* disappear.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475099#475099
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's Your Contribution Used For? |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
Guys
In my RV-10 electric system, with 2 batteries and 2 alternators (the Primary ALT
being a Plane Power 60A, and the Secondary ALT being a BC410-H, formerly known
as SD-20), I have a Main Battery contactor and an Aux Battery contactor.
This being, unless I have the Aux Batt contactor On (closed), the Alternators will
not charge the Aux battery.
Therefore, I am thinking in installing a Schottky diode (I have one from Perihelion
Design sitting in my shelf, which is rated at 60A of maximum allowable continuous
current, and voltage loss around 0,20V), between the Main battery Buss
and the Aux battery + terminal, to allow the alternators who are charging the
Main battery, also to charge the Aux battery, even when the Aux BATT contactor
is not closed.
First question: is there any downside to this solution, or is it even not recommended
at all?
Second question (or more...): in this solution, I should put a fuse in the wire
between the Main Batt buss and the Schottky diode, to protect this wire, right?
Which is the A recommended for this fuse, 30 A?
And by the way, which wire gauge, AWG#12?
Thanks
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Schottky diode |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Your plans sound good to me. Wires should be fused at the source end. Since the
wire with the diode connects two sources (batteries) together, you might consider
fusing it at both ends, especially if it is a long wire or if there is
any chance of it shorting to ground.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475179#475179
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Schottky diode |
At 10:53 AM 11/17/2017, you wrote:
>
>Guys
>
>In my RV-10 electric system, with 2 batteries and 2 alternators (the
>Primary ALT being a Plane Power 60A, and the Secondary ALT being a
>BC410-H, formerly known as SD-20), I have a Main Battery contactor
>and an Aux Battery contactor.
>
>This being, unless I have the Aux Batt contactor On (closed), the
>Alternators will not charge the Aux battery.
>
>Therefore, I am thinking in installing a Schottky diode (I have one
>from Perihelion Design sitting in my shelf, which is rated at 60A of
>maximum allowable continuous current, and voltage loss around
>0,20V), between the Main battery Buss and the Aux battery +
>terminal, to allow the alternators who are charging the Main
>battery, also to charge the Aux battery, even when the Aux BATT
>contactor is not closed.
>
>First question: is there any downside to this solution, or is it
>even not recommended at all?
>
>Second question (or more...): in this solution, I should put a fuse
>in the wire between the Main Batt buss and the Schottky diode, to
>protect this wire, right?
>Which is the A recommended for this fuse, 30 A?
>And by the way, which wire gauge, AWG#12?
Why not wire like Z-12 with a z-30 second
battery? Are you planning to have battery
bus(es)? Which electro-whizzies will run
from each bus? Why not fly with both
battery contactors closed?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gregg Sneek <sneekg(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/16/17 |
Please unsubscribe me.
Get Outlook for Android
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list
-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of AeroElectric-List Digest Server
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 2:01:39 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/16/17
*
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AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 11/16/17: 3
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:11 PM - Re: Simple EFIS backup battery wiring (user9253)
2. 09:45 PM - Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed spli
tter (Airdog77)
3. 10:19 PM - Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed spli
tter (Eric Page)
________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________
_______
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simple EFIS backup battery wiring
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Good job Eric Page. Some aircraft owners and/or builders will appreciate y
our
work.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475094#475094
________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________
_______
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera
feed
splitter
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Eric & Alec,
> Once we hear from Wade that his EFIS and video adapter handle the camera
feed
switching OK, I'll edit the schematic and work on a board layout.
Just wanted to let you guys know I hooked up 3 cameras to the switching uni
t that
you recommended Eric and fed it into the GRT EFIS via the switching unit's
RCA jack out into the USB adapter.
The switching worked fine, albeit their is a VERY brief (less than half a s
econd)
skewing of the screen as it goes from one video input to the other. You ha
ve
to be looking right at it to see it.
Again, it all looked fine to me. If we could eliminate the skewing it'd be
nice,
but definitely not a showstopper.
Cheers,
Wade
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ N916WP
www.longezpush.com<http://www.longezpush.com>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475098#475098
________________________________ Message 3 ______________________________
_______
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera
feed
splitter
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Airdog77 wrote:
> The switching worked fine, albeit their is a VERY brief (less than half a
second)
skewing of the screen as it goes from one video input to the other. You
have to be looking right at it to see it.
I'm glad to hear it works OK and the EFIS doesn't lose sync on the video si
gnal.
Thinking out loud here... the brief skewing you see may have something to d
o
with the mechanical switch. Perhaps it's a break-before-make type, so for
several
milliseconds there's no signal present. With the switching done electronic
ally,
the loss of signal will be reduced to a few tens of nanoseconds, so
that issue *may* disappear.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475099#475099
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
Hi Bob
Please see my answers below
De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Enviada: Friday, November 17, 2017 11:04 PM
Para: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Assunto: Re: AeroElectric-List: Schottky diode
At 10:53 AM 11/17/2017, you wrote:
>
Guys
In my RV-10 electric system, with 2 batteries and 2 alternators (the Primary
ALT being a Plane Power 60A, and the Secondary ALT being a BC410-H, formerly
known as SD-20), I have a Main Battery contactor and an Aux Battery
contactor.
This being, unless I have the Aux Batt contactor On (closed), the
Alternators will not charge the Aux battery.
Therefore, I am thinking in installing a Schottky diode (I have one from
Perihelion Design sitting in my shelf, which is rated at 60A of maximum
allowable continuous current, and voltage loss around 0,20V), between the
Main battery Buss and the Aux battery + terminal, to allow the alternators
who are charging the Main battery, also to charge the Aux battery, even when
the Aux BATT contactor is not closed.
First question: is there any downside to this solution, or is it even not
recommended at all?
Second question (or more...): in this solution, I should put a fuse in the
wire between the Main Batt buss and the Schottky diode, to protect this
wire, right?
Which is the A recommended for this fuse, 30 A?
And by the way, which wire gauge, AWG#12?
Regards
Carlos
Why not wire like Z-12 with a z-30 second battery?
You're spot on, I do have both arquitectures in my system:
- like in Z-12, the B-Leads of my 2 alternators are both connected to the
same lug in the Starter contactor, thus both alternators charge the Main
Battery
- like in Z-30, the Aux battery is connected, through the Aux Batt.
Contactor, to the downstream lug of the Main Batt contactor, thus the Aux
battery will act as a direct "reinforcement" for the Main battery
Are you planning to have battery bus(es)? Which electro-whizzies will run
from each bus?
I have what you call a "Battery bus" and I called an "Always Hot buss",
directly connected to the Main Battery, only to power the Fuel boost pump
and a cockpit light
And I have what I called an "Avionics Backup buss", which gets power
directly from the Aux battery, through a dedicated relay/contactor, to the
secondary power inputs of all my GARMIN Avionics
Why not fly with both battery contactors closed?
In this case, this is indeed the one-million-dollar question.
My initial request was about to put an extra wire and a Schottky diode,
between the Main battery buss and the Aux battery + terminal, to be able to
charge the Aux battery without closing the Aux Batt contactor.
And this idea had 2 backgrounds: in case the pilot forgets to turn On the
Aux Batt contactor, or in case he doesn't want to turn it On, to "save" the
Aux Battery power (this last being probably a dumb idea).
What do you think about your own question?
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
> Why not wire like Z-12 with a z-30 second battery?
>
>You're spot on, I do have both arquitectures in my system:
> - like in Z-12, the B-Leads of my 2 alternators are both
> connected to the same lug in the Starter contactor, thus both
> alternators charge the Main Battery
Are you intending to use the LR3 generic controller
or the SB1B-14 controller specific to stand-by service?
> - like in Z-30, the Aux battery is connected, through the Aux
> Batt. Contactor, to the downstream lug of the Main Batt contactor,
> thus the Aux battery will act as a direct "reinforcement" for the Main battery
Okay . . .
>
>Are you planning to have battery bus(es)? Which electro-whizzies
>will run from each bus?
>
>I have what you call a "Battery bus" and I called an "Always Hot
>buss", directly connected to the Main Battery, only to power the
>Fuel boost pump and a cockpit light
>And I have what I called an "Avionics Backup buss", which gets power
>directly from the Aux battery, through a dedicated relay/contactor,
>to the secondary power inputs of all my GARMIN Avionics
Understand . . .
>
>Why not fly with both battery contactors closed?
>
>In this case, this is indeed the one-million-dollar question.
>My initial request was about to put an extra wire and a Schottky
>diode, between the Main battery buss and the Aux battery + terminal,
>to be able to charge the Aux battery without closing the Aux Batt contactor.
>And this idea had 2 backgrounds: in case the pilot forgets to turn
>On the Aux Batt contactor,
I really get exercised over the phrase, "Pilot forgets" . . .
Pilots in control of their airplanes don't forget actions
necessary for competent use of the machine . . . pilots
along for the ride are at risk for unhappy days far
worse than improperly positioned controls . . . check
lists used a few dozen times become as automatic as breathing.
> . . . or in case he doesn't want to turn it On, to "save" the Aux
> Battery power (this last being probably a dumb idea).
>What do you think about your own question?
A significant advantage of two batteries is
the ability to isolate the 'avionics' battery
during cranking to side step brown-out issues.
The disadvantage is added weight . . . and 2x
the cost of ownership for battery maintenance
efforts . . . added complexity.
With two alternators, battery only endurance
is insignificant. Hence no reason to fret over
battery capability beyond that need to get
the engine running.
It occurs to me that I've never measured the
brownout characteristics of the lithium ion
products. Given their significantly lower
source impedance, it just might be that these
engine cranking sources would support the
bus at or above the brown-out limits of the
glass-panel products with weak-knees. Has
anyone on the List explored this?
My Sedona has a PM starter on it. I'll put a
task on the to-do bucket to capture a cranking
event trace on the EXP36 battery I have on hand.
Except for mitigation of a brown-out event
(which generally lasts a less than 100
milliseconds), I'm having trouble warming up
to a two-battery configuration. With two
alternators a well maintained battery, I can't
think of any other failure scenario where two
batteries are going to yield a return on investment.
Can't think of a reason your 'avionics bus'
should be any different than the legacy e-bus.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "erich weaver" <erich.weaver(at)aecom.com> |
I was able to work on this last weekend and found that there was indeed some voltage
loss between main bus and master switch. Got that taken care of, got rid
of the jumper between pins 3 and 6 on voltage regulator and added a dedicated
bus voltage sense wire, and then monitored voltage at a number of locations
with the engine running using my trusty Radio Shack multimeter: 14.08 V at battery;
14.06 at battery bus, 14.05 at main bus, and 13.31 at e-bus that is fed
through a diode. With the e-bus alternate feed switch turned on, e-bus voltage
jumps to 13.96. Voltage readings are now steady at the battery and bus locations.
EIS and two EFIS screen voltage values are only indicated in tenths of volts on
the screens, and these values seem to fluctuate by 0.1 or 0.2 V; not sure why
that is, but perhaps that isnt really a concern.
EIS (fed from e-bus) = 13.5 V
pilot EFIS, primary power source (fed from e-bus) 13.4 V
pilot EFIS, secondary power source (fed from main bus & TCW power stabilizer =13.8
V. So looks like my intended secondary power source for covering engine-start
brown-outs is actually serving as my primary power source due to its higher
voltage.
Copilot EFIS, primary power source (fed from e-bus) = 13.2 V (a bit low)
There is no secondary power source connected for the copilot EFIS.
So, all good overall, although thinking I should adjust the voltage regulator until
I get 14.2 V at the battery so that it recharges a bit faster.
Thanks for the assistance guys.
Erich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475332#475332
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Good going Erich.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475342#475342
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?= |
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Im starting a new thread on this topic in case anyone who might be interested missed
the recent discussion, here:
http://forum.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16768062
To recap, Ive adapted Eric Jones design for a voltage slump eliminator (a device
to prevent EFIS/EMS brownout/reboot during engine start) and designed a circuit
board for it. The schematic (.PDF) is here:
http://forum.matronics.com/download.php?id=44878
An archive (.ZIP) containing the full design files can be downloaded here:
https://preview.tinyurl.com/yajod9m6
So far one member of the forum has expressed a desire for me to build one of these
for him, so Ive ordered a batch of circuit boards. If anyone else wants a
complete unit, please let me know so I can order all of the components at once.
You can reply to this thread or contact me directly.
The cost should be about $35 each, plus postage to your address. Ill send a PayPal
invoice, along with copies of my receipts, once I know the exact amount for
each device and I have them ready to mail.
Im happy to part with bare circuit boards as well; again, for my cost ($0.55/ea)
plus postage.
Eric
P.S. For anyone seeing this in the future, you can contact me directly to see
if I have any circuit boards on hand. The PDF schematic file contains a link
to Digi-Key that will load a shopping cart with all necessary components.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475344#475344
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
I was able to work on this last weekend and found that there was
indeed some voltage loss between main bus and master switch. Got
that taken care of, got rid of the jumper between pins 3 and 6 on
voltage regulator and added a dedicated bus voltage sense wire, and
then monitored voltage at a number of locations with the engine
running using my trusty Radio Shack multimeter: 14.08 V at battery;
14.06 at battery bus, 14.05 at main bus, and 13.31 at e-bus that is
fed through a diode. With the e-bus alternate feed switch turned on,
e-bus voltage jumps to 13.96. Voltage readings are now steady at the
battery and bus locations.
Very good. This validates our hope that there
are no problems with the hardware.
EIS and two EFIS screen voltage values are only indicated in tenths
of volts on the screens, and these values seem to fluctuate by 0.1 or
0.2 V; not sure why that is, but perhaps that isnt really a concern.
ALL digital dispalys are subject to some
degree of 'bobble' in the least significant
digit. Which has to do with the manner in which
DC votlages are filtered, sampled and converted
to binary values for furhter processing. Then
there are the effects of naturally occuring
variations in the bus votlage itself.
Unless the designer has gone to the trouble to
oversample, do running averaging or perhaps
convert to more digits and toss out the last
one . . . you're going to see this bobble.
As much as plus or minus two counts in the
least significant digit is of no concern.
Back in the days when the best voltmeters
installed might look like this:
[]
You couldn't see the fluctuations . . . but they
were still there.
EIS (fed from e-bus) = 13.5 V
pilot EFIS, primary power source (fed from e-bus) 13.4 V
pilot EFIS, secondary power source (fed from main bus & TCW power
stabilizer =13.8 V. So looks like my intended secondary power
source for covering engine-start brown-outs is actually serving as my
primary power source due to its higher voltage.
Copilot EFIS, primary power source (fed from e-bus) = 13.2 V (a bit low)
There is no secondary power source connected for the copilot EFIS.
So, all good overall, although thinking I should adjust the voltage
regulator until I get 14.2 V at the battery so that it recharges a bit faster.
14.4 volts is not out of line. Reading from the
Hawkjer-Enersys manual on Odyssey batteries:
Emacs!
It sounds like the power management philosophy for
the 'secondary power sources' could use some
refinement. Without detailed schematics describing
just how electrons are being herded through the
system, it's not possible to offer a detailed
assessment.
The take-away from this exercise was predicted
by one of my heros:
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and
express it in numbers, you know something about it; but
when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in
numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory
kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have
scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the stage of science,
whatever the matter may be." -Lord Kelvin- 1864
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
I almost forgot . . .
>So, all good overall, although thinking I should adjust the voltage
>regulator until I get 14.2 V at the battery so that it recharges a bit faster.
>
> 14.4 volts is not out of line . . .
When setting your voltage regulator, adjust
for the desired magnitude AT THE REGULATOR'S
SENSE POINT.
In this case, at the main bus. Adjusting
for voltage at the battery does not account
for inevitable VARIATIONS in voltage drop
between the sense point and the battery. If
the battery is taking a charge, current through
the charge path DEPRESSES voltage at the
battery . . . which approaches zero as the battery
charges.
A fully charged battery's terminal voltage and
the sense point at the bus will be essentially
equal. So while cranking on the little screw, measure
from the bus.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Meyer <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Transponder Antenna issue... |
I've got a regular old ball and post transponder antenna on the belly of my
Long EZ... Someone's foot caught it and snapped it off, but I have the
part. Tried soldering it together and got it structurally sound, but it
doesn't work any more...
What's the best material to use for a replacement post?
What's the best antenna to put in a Long EZ and where? Are the tips too far
for a GTX330 to push a good signal to? What about in the nose just in front
of the battery? Too much shielding from the battery? Do I have to worry
about putting the antenna too close to pink juicy matter - is this a real
risk?
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna issue... |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 11/22/2017 12:19 PM, Andrew Meyer wrote:
> I've got a regular old ball and post transponder antenna on the belly
> of my Long EZ... Someone's foot caught it and snapped it off, but I
> have the part. Tried soldering it together and got it structurally
> sound, but it doesn't work any more...
>
> What's the best material to use for a replacement post?
>
> What's the best antenna to put in a Long EZ and where? Are the tips
> too far for a GTX330 to push a good signal to? What about in the nose
> just in front of the battery? Too much shielding from the battery? Do
> I have to worry about putting the antenna too close to pink juicy
> matter - is this a real risk?
>
> Thanks!
Aviation dept at ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TED-104-17-Aircraft-ADS-B-UAT-978-MHz-Post-Antenna/141824351182?epid=724999345&hash=item210563dbce:m:mPotFwG_HJqxr1lH285Bmgw&vxp=mtr
A 'spike' like that does need a ground plane, which you probably already
have in the EZ, if that's what was broken off (and the builder installed
it correctly). As to moving it, what are the odds of that happening again?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna issue... |
At 12:19 PM 11/22/2017, you wrote:
>I've got a regular old ball and post transponder
>antenna on the belly of my Long EZ... Someone's
>foot caught it and snapped it off, but I have
>the part. Tried soldering it together and got it
>structurally sound, but it doesn't work any more...=C2
>
>What's the best material to use for a replacement post?
how about a new antenna . . . they're not expensive.
TED104-12 is a VERY common part available new
off of ebay
http://tinyurl.com/yd9v9g6j
>What's the best antenna to put in a Long EZ and
>where? Are the tips too far for a GTX330 to push
>a good signal to? What about in the nose just in
>front of the battery? Too much shielding from the battery?
Any place on the belly is fine. You need a ground-plane
consisting of a 5-3/4" diameter disk of aluminum.
> Do I have to worry about putting the antenna
> too close to pink juicy matter - is this a real risk?
No.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent or Jackie Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna issue... |
> On Nov 22, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Andrew Meyer wrote:
>
> I've got a regular old ball and post transponder antenna on the belly of my Long
EZ... Someone's foot caught it and snapped it off, but I have the part. Tried
soldering it together and got it structurally sound, but it doesn't work any
more...
>
> What's the best material to use for a replacement post?
These $25 antennas on ebay are a pretty good deal, although you can make one out
of a brass bolt if you are really a hard-core builder. :-)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TED-104-12-Aircraft-Transponder-DME-ADS-B-Post-Antenna/140958325304?epid=712364020&hash=item20d1c55a38:m:mPotFwG_HJqxr1lH285Bmgw&vxp=mtr
>
> What's the best antenna to put in a Long EZ and where? Are the tips too far for
a GTX330 to push a good signal to? What about in the nose just in front of
the battery? Too much shielding from the battery? Do I have to worry about putting
the antenna too close to pink juicy matter - is this a real risk?
I put them under the seat, sticking out the bottom of the fuselage. The RF is
too short to do any harm. If you put it in the nose on a pusher it will often
be blocked by the bags of water in the front seats or the engine and the radar
will lose contact climbing out from the station.
-Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Meyer <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Transponder Antenna issue... |
The other option that I'm considering is a Sim Jim antenna far up in the
nose to the left - as far past the battery as I can get it or in the right
wing root - about 4 feet to the right of the pink bag of fluid that
manipulates the controls... I do want it out of the wind because any drag
at 170 knots with only 50 or 60 HP pushing at altitude makes a BIG
difference.
https://m0ukd.com/calculators/slim-jim-and-j-pole-calculator/
Set the velocity factor at about .94 with 14 gauge solid (house) wire and
tune at 1060MHz (half way in between 1030 and 1090.) I use one of these for
my Stratux ADS-B and get 200+ mile returns from aircraft... Any thoughts on
how to do this better?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna issue... |
Hi Andrew;
B & C Specialty Products offers a transponder antenna (their Pt. # ANT-1) for $21.00.
I would be hard pressed to make one for that price.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Meyer" <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:19:44 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder Antenna issue...
I've got a regular old ball and post transponder antenna on the belly of my Long
EZ... Someone's foot caught it and snapped it off, but I have the part. Tried
soldering it together and got it structurally sound, but it doesn't work any
more...
What's the best material to use for a replacement post?
What's the best antenna to put in a Long EZ and where? Are the tips too far for
a GTX330 to push a good signal to? What about in the nose just in front of the
battery? Too much shielding from the battery? Do I have to worry about putting
the antenna too close to pink juicy matter - is this a real risk?
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: voltage fluctuations |
| From: | "erich weaver" <erich.weaver(at)aecom.com> |
Got it, thanks Bob.
Reading this forum and the Connection gave me the courage to wire my plane myself,
something Ive never regretted.
Erich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475485#475485
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Value of the List... |
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Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna issue... |
At 04:56 PM 11/22/2017, you wrote:
>The other option that I'm considering is a Sim Jim antenna far up in
>the nose to the left - as far past the battery as I can get it or in
>the right wing root - about 4 feet to the right of the pink bag of
>fluid that manipulates the controls... I do want it out of the wind
>because any drag at 170 knots with only 50 or 60 HP pushing at
>altitude makes a BIG difference.
>
>https://m0ukd.com/calculators/slim-jim-and-j-pole-calculator/
>
>Set the velocity factor at about .94 with 14 gauge solid (house)
>wire and tune at 1060MHz (half way in between 1030 and 1090.) I use
>one of these for my Stratux ADS-B and get 200+ mile returns from
>aircraft... Any thoughts on how to do this better?
The 'slim jim' is a 3/4 wave assembly consiting
of a 1/2 wave, end fed dipole and a 1/4 wave
matching section. Bob Archer designed and sold a 1/2 wave,
gamma matched dipole suitable for mounting
on inside surface of a glass and plastic airplane . . .
2/3 the length of a 'slim jim'. I think ACS still
sells this antenna.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <berkut13(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna |
So the noise is breaking intercom squelch?
I=99ve noticed that in many EZ type installations, the transponder
RF =9Cclicking=9D noise is actually getting in to the
headset itself. Especially if it is the active noise canceling variety.
It didn=99t seem to matter what intercom was being used, VOX
system shielding, ground separation and even ferrite chokes added to the
power/coax/audio lines...or even transponder. In one case I could even
unplug the headset and still get the noise.
Mostly, I found that I can get the intensity of the noise to change (and
even disappear in some positions) as I rotate my head (with headset on)
or move to different parts of the cabin and/or moving the control box
around. It can be replicated on the ground as well if you are in an
active surveillance area and can get your transponder to be active.
Try that and using a different brand and type of headset and see if you
have similar results. If so, there is not much you can do about it but
change headset vendor/type if you find a quiet one or increase the size
of the ground plane if you have the room =93 which is quite
limited in an EZ.
Let us know what you find.
-James
Berkut/Race 13
From: Steve Stearns
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder antenna
*IF* you are or will be using an ADS-B out 1090 MHz transponder on the
antenna in question be aware that it's output is enough different than
the non-ADS-B transponder that where the later would work with no
problem, the former may inject "ticks" into your audio.
I've debugged enough to be *quite* certain that the interference path is
from the energy radiated off of the antenna itself into the mic
circuitry on my panel mount Sigtronics intercom.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: z13/8 ess bus feed |
| From: | "mmcelrea" <mmcelrea(at)hotmail.com> |
Is it acceptable to use cb's, fuses or limiters in place of the fuse links from
the stby alternator, main bus to master and the alternate essential bus feed?
Also is it ok to use 1 amp fuses in place of fuse links from the shunts on a
G3X system?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475590#475590
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alarm souder with multiple sources |
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Good day !
I need some help to wire an alarm (souder and one red light) with multiple sources.
I have my ignition sending a signal on an exit to power up an alarm souder up to
75ma, I want to use a sounder, and first of all I would like to set it with
also on the same alarm (warning and led) a low oil pressure sensor, a low fuel
level alarm. I was thinking about to use diode, but wich kind on diode could
I use for this use ? (Because I have a big diode to power my essential bus from
my main bus. And I will not set this kind of diode right ?)
Also, as master warning on other plane i want to be allowed to cancel the alarm.
(Switch to push with instable position, to mute it) For exemple before start
I will have after power up, the alarm (low pressure) and i don't want to stay
with my Alarm all time that I will take an ATIS for exemple, but it's the same
during a faillure.
And this point it's a bit difficult for me. I have wired a similar thing on a motor
home there was 10 years.. but 10 years after. I don't remember how I wired
it, just that I used relays.
Anyone could Help me ?
Thank you.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475593#475593
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Meyer <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna |
Bob, etc all.,
Thank you.
For the short term, I bought a piece of 1/8" brass rod, turned down and
soldered the old connector to this rod, put the ball on the end and
installed... Going to test fly tomorrow. Matched the length, etc...
I will explore the internal options shortly. Slowly getting rid of drag.
Need to do it faster though.
Happy Flyin'!
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: z13/8 ess bus feed |
At 02:35 PM 11/24/2017, you wrote:
>
>Is it acceptable to use cb's, fuses or limiters in place of the fuse
>links from the stby alternator, main bus to master and the alternate
>essential bus feed? Also is it ok to use 1 amp fuses in place of
>fuse links from the shunts on a G3X system?
>
>
Sure. Fusible links are simply a low cost, lower parts
count, convenient substitute for the LONG TIME CONSTANT
current limiter. Fusible links and current limiters target
the battery-driven, hard fault condition.
For your purposes, you can replace ANY fusible link
shown in the drawings with a fuse or circuit breaker
but I suggest that it only adds to cost and labor.
But it's not 'unacceptable'.
I would avoid using fuses lower than 3A for
mechanical robustness concerns . . . in fact,
for airplanes wired with nothing smaller than
22AWG, a 5A fuse is a practical lower limit
for fuse selection.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | 1A Slow Blow Fuse |
Bob,
In a recent message, you wrote: " I would avoid using fuses lower than 3A
for mechanical robustness concerns."
I am installing an MGL backup ASI+altimeter and the installation
instructions call for a 1A slow blow fuse. I bought a glass tube fuse and
an inline holder.
I do remember what you have written (many times!) about fuses protecting
the wires but opted to follow the manufacturer's instructions. I would love
to hear your thoughts about this situation.
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1A Slow Blow Fuse |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
1A slow blow sounds oxymoronic to me=2E=2E=2E
Charlie
On Nov 25, 2017,
9:37 PM, at 9:37 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>Bob,
>
>In a rece
nt message, you wrote: " I would avoid using fuses lower than
>3A
>for mech
anical robustness concerns=2E"
>
>I am installing an MGL backup ASI+altimet
er and the installation
>instructions call for a 1A slow blow fuse=2E I bou
ght a glass tube fuse
>and
>an inline holder=2E
>
>I do remember what you h
ave written (many times!) about fuses
>protecting
>the wires but opted to f
ollow the manufacturer's instructions=2E I would
>love
>to hear your though
ts about this situation=2E
>
> -- Art Z=2E
>
>--
>https://CheerfulCurmu
dgeon=2Ecom/
>
>*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only f
or myself,
>what
>am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: 1A Slow Blow Fuse |
=8B
On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
> 1A slow blow sounds oxymoronic to me...
>
to me too but there are lots of 'em available...
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/littelfuse-inc/0313001.HXP/F2543-
ND/777259
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
=8B
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been
putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it!
The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose
from this year. I personally want at least three of them! There's probably
something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your
Lists!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists!
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1A Slow Blow Fuse |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
ATC or ATO fuses of 3 amps and larger are available with an LED that glows after
the fuse blows.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475624#475624
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1A Slow Blow Fuse |
At 09:29 PM 11/25/2017, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>In a recent message, you wrote: " I would avoid using fuses lower
>than 3A for mechanical robustness concerns."
>
>I am installing an MGL backup ASI+altimeter and the installation
>instructions call for a 1A slow blow fuse. I bought a glass tube
>fuse and an inline holder.
>
>I do remember what you have written (many times!) about fuses
>protecting the wires but opted to follow the manufacturer's
>instructions. I would love to hear your thoughts about this situation.
Generally speaking, it's never wrong to follow
the instructions. I'm always curious as to the
design decisions that prompt such requirements
from manufacturers . . . but one almost never
gets to talk to the guy who did it.
From the airframe side of the fence, mechanical
robustness, reduction in weight, cost and parts
count and designing for failure tolerance germinated
a host of design rules that NEVER speak to what
goes on inside a purchased black box.
Internal workings are the responsibility of
the product's designer. I can tell you that
any supplier asking for a 1A slow blow fuse
to protect an input to a device offered
for a Beech product would be queried in detail.
. . . we probably would have agreed on a
miniature, 2.5 or 5A breaker instead.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stratux position |
| From: | "petertohen" <dhctvien3(at)gmail.com> |
Hey Ya'll
I'm looking into ditching my Garmin 510 and using only ForeFlight with the Stratux
for navigation. Currently I'm feeding my 406 ELT position data from the Garmin
but want to retain that ability with the IPad/ForeFlight/Stratux set up.
Has anyone done this? Anyone know the exact pins on the Sratux to pull GPS position
from to make the 406 ELT happy? I ordered the Stratux already built so I
probably need to be spoon fed.......
http://www.matronics.com/skycomm/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475706#475706
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Behind By 31% - Please Contribute Today! |
Dear Listers,
The percentage of members making a Contribution to support the Lists this year
is currently behind last year by at this time by roughly 31%. Please take this
opportunity to show your support for the Matronics Lists and Forums!
Please remember that it is *solely* your direct Contributions that keep these Lists
and Forums up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members
don't want to support the Lists directly, then I might have to add advertisements
to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I don't want to have to do
that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot
of the members appreciate that too.
Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free
operation of all these Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already
made their generous Contribution to support the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forums Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been
putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it!
The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose
from this year. I personally want at least three of them! There's probably
something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your
Lists!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists!
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser - Please Contribute Today! |
At 09:12 AM 11/27/2017, you wrote:
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>The percentage of members making a Contribution to support the Lists
>this year is currently behind last year by at this time by roughly
>31%. Please take this opportunity to show your support for the
>Matronics Lists and Forums!
Some of my favorite sources on the 'net have
been offering 'add-free-passes' that allow you
to access their content offerings free of the
necessity to hat-dance through the weeds of
commerce . . . I'm enjoying it and the cost is
trivial.
Let's not abuse time, talent and resources
Matt has dedicated to this endeavor for all these
years. Come on folks! There ain't no such thing
as a free lunch . . . you can't eat ice cream every
day if the cow doesn't get fed . . . somebody pays
for it some where along the line.
We need to mitigate the stress on Matt's resources
to the best our ability.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?= |
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Update: Twelve PCBs have arrived. I plan to submit a Digi-Key order for components
tomorrow evening. If anyone else is interested in one of these, please
let me know ASAP. Again, cost will be about $35 each, plus shipping.
I"m keeping two PCBs for my own future builds and one other is spoken for, so I
have nine available for any forum member who wants a complete unit or a bare
board. The price for bare boards is my cost ($0.46 ea) + shipping.
I will edit this post in the future as boards are taken to track the number I have
left...
Current PCB inventory: 9
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475832#475832
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/vse_pcb_105.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?= |
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Eric, I will take a $35 one.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475845#475845
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make |
A Contribution Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the
Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your
Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have
helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?= |
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
NOTICE: Files for this project have been updated to correct a mistaken part number.
If you downloaded the PDF schematic or ZIP archive of design files, please
update your files with the new versions.
PDF Schematic: http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=44926
ZIP Archive: https://preview.tinyurl.com/yajod9m6
Links in original post above have also been updated.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475932#475932
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?= |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?_Slump_Eliminator=9D?
At 02:44 PM 11/28/2017, you wrote:
>
>Update: Twelve PCBs have arrived. I plan to submit a Digi-Key
>order for components tomorrow evening. If anyone else is interested
>in one of these, please let me know ASAP. Again, cost will be about
>$35 each, plus shipping.
>
>I"m keeping two PCBs for my own future builds and one other is
>spoken for, so I have nine available for any forum member who wants
>a complete unit or a bare board. The price for bare boards is my
>cost ($0.46 ea) + shipping.
>
>I will edit this post in the future as boards are taken to track the
>number I have left...
>
>Current PCB inventory: 9
>
Eric, I'd like to purchase an assembled article.
PayPal?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: -1?Q?Re:_AeroElectric-List:_Re:_EFIS/EMS_Brown?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?out/Reboot:___=9CVoltage_Slump_Eliminator=9D? |
| From: | kennethjlarson <kennethjlarson(at)gmail.com> |
RXJpY0kgYW0gaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiBhbiBhc3NlbWJsZWQgdW5pdC5UaGFuayBZb3VLZW4KCgpT
ZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVyaXpvbiwgU2Ftc3VuZyBHYWxheHkgc21hcnRwaG9uZQpudWxs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again
- 54! :-) But it also means that it's that last official day of the Matronics
Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up one of those
really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
Got a peek at the video out of the $7 camera. They sent
me a PAL as opposed to NTSC but there's no reqason to believe
the outputs are not similarly organized.
the outpout is DC stable with negative tip of sync
clamped about 20mv above ground. Video output into
75 ohm load is 1v pk-pk.
Emacs!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Beautiful. It looks like our mux design with a single positive supply should work
fine. I'll get the ball rolling on a prototype, which I'll send to Alec to
stuff with a programmed PIC.
Alec: Should I add a couple of PIC12F683s to my parts order, or do you already
have them on hand?
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476066#476066
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
Hi Eric
what would work best for me is a prototype board mounted with a PIC ready for ICSP,
but without the video chip, so that I can solder some test parts onto it.
I dont have any video sources or screens so when Ive verified the PIC works I
can send it back to you to check out the video.
On Dec 2, 2017, at 21:30, Eric Page wrote:
Beautiful. It looks like our mux design with a single positive supply should work
fine. I'll get the ball rolling on a prototype, which I'll send to Alec to
stuff with a programmed PIC.
Alec: Should I add a couple of PIC12F683s to my parts order, or do you already
have them on hand?
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476066#476066
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote:
> What would work best for me is a prototype board mounted with a PIC ready for
ICSP, but without the video chip, so that I can solder some test parts onto it.
I dont have any video sources or screens so when Ive verified the PIC works
I can send it back to you to check out the video.
Sounds good; that's what I'll do.
I'm going to order parts first, as I want to measure the inside of the D-Sub backshell
before I order PCBs. After looking at the 3D models of the backshell
and PCB together, I don't think it's going to fit. It looks like the pin headers
will be too tall and the PIC won't be able to be socketed. I'd like to use
a right-angle DB-25 connector to lower the board and gain more vertical space,
but there are only a few available with flanges to fit a backshell, and those
start at $10.60 ea., versus $0.64 for the solder cup versions. Stay tuned...
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476074#476074
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
why would you want to socket the PIC?
On Dec 3, 2017, at 17:10, Eric Page wrote:
alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote:
> What would work best for me is a prototype board mounted with a PIC ready for
ICSP, but without the video chip, so that I can solder some test parts onto it.
I dont have any video sources or screens so when Ive verified the PIC works
I can send it back to you to check out the video.
Sounds good; that's what I'll do.
I'm going to order parts first, as I want to measure the inside of the D-Sub backshell
before I order PCBs. After looking at the 3D models of the backshell
and PCB together, I don't think it's going to fit. It looks like the pin headers
will be too tall and the PIC won't be able to be socketed. I'd like to use
a right-angle DB-25 connector to lower the board and gain more vertical space,
but there are only a few available with flanges to fit a backshell, and those
start at $10.60 ea., versus $0.64 for the solder cup versions. Stay tuned...
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476074#476074
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera |
feed splitter
A D-sub housing I've found quite useful is the
956 series devices from NorComp
https://goo.gl/54a6S9
they have an inside height of 0.570 and will allow
you to socket a chip on the far end . . . the board
deflects off centerline by about 0.050
These backshells have a partition that is easily
removed with a pair of duck-bill pliers.
Emacs!
Emacs!
I've only used the 15 pin shells . . . I think
the 25 pin devices are of similar configuration.
I use solder-cup connectors. By chamfering the corners
of the end between the pins, it presses between
them quit nicely and fixtures the parts for soldering.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed |
splitter
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> A D-sub housing I've found quite useful is the 956 series devices from NorComp.
They have an inside height of 0.570 and will allow you to socket a chip on
the far end . . . the board deflects off centerline by about 0.050.
October 25, 2017 - December 05, 2017
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-od