AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-oe

December 05, 2017 - January 07, 2018



      
      Bob, your timing is impeccable.  I turned on the computer to order some parts and
      saw your post.  I'll get the 956-series backshell.  I was looking at NorComp's
      983-series, but yours looks nearly identical for interior volume and is 1/4
      the cost.
      
      Once I have the parts I'll do a quick cardboard template of the PCB before I order
      those, to be sure they'll fit.
      
      
      > I use solder-cup connectors. By chamfering the corners of the end between the
      pins, it presses between them quite nicely and fixtures the parts for soldering.
      
      That's the plan.  I looked for a right angle through-hole connector to gain some
      vertical space, but the ones that will fit a backshell start at >$10 ea.
      
      Eric
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476099#476099
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera
feed splitter At 06:00 PM 12/4/2017, you wrote: > > >nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > > A D-sub housing I've found quite useful is the 956 series devices > from NorComp. They have an inside height of 0.570 and will allow > you to socket a chip on the far end . . . the board deflects off > centerline by about 0.050. > >Bob, your timing is impeccable. I turned on the computer to order >some parts and saw your post. I'll get the 956-series backshell. I >was looking at NorComp's 983-series, but yours looks nearly >identical for interior volume and is 1/4 the cost. > >Once I have the parts I'll do a quick cardboard template of the PCB >before I order those, to be sure they'll fit. the optimum board size is 1.175 x 0.630 for the 15-pin shells. Let me know what you find for 25-pin . . . if you need to go that big. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2017
From: Eric Page <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera
feed splitter At 06:00 PM 12/4/2017,=C2-"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroele ctric.com>=C2-wrote: The optimum board size is 1.175 x 0.630 for the 15-pin=C2-shells. Let me know what you find for 25-pin . . . if you=C2-need to go that big. Oh, I'll definitely need to use the 25-pin.=C2- I'll post a drawing of th e max board outline for that size. Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dual batteries or dual alternators?
From: "vookis" <csgo.expertt(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 05, 2017
How can its work with mobile tracker (https://mobile-phone-tracker.org/register/#alex81) on Android? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476118#476118 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 06, 2017
Eric, I'm looking for something like this specifically for my GNS480 GPS. Do you think your Slump Eliminator could handle a 480? I checked the 480 manual and all I could find on power requirements is a voltage range of 10-36 volts. If your device can support a 480 during start, then I definitely want one! Thanks, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476132#476132 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 06, 2017
Ward, I chose capacitors for the device based on another member's request to support an MGL Xtreme EFIS/EMS unit, which draws ~200mA and will operate down to 8V. Going by the specifications in the installation manual... http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Garmin/GNS480_IM.pdf ...in section 1.3 on page 1-6, we see that the GNS480 requires a minimum of 10V. Adding the three power inputs (Main, VHF Nav and Comm) together, the total "typical" current draw is 2.12A. Those minimum values probably assume that the boot sequence is complete, the GPS receivers are locked and the processor is mostly idle. It also assumes that it's warm enough that the backlight heater is off; add another 0.8A for the heater in low ambient temps. With those numbers, the Voltage Slump Eliminator would support a GNS480 for somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 of a second; so, not very useful. If it's possible to power only the "Main" input to the GNS480 and leave the VHF Nav and Comm sections unpowered until after engine start, then the situation improves a bit: ~1.1 second. It would certainly be possible to source much larger supercapacitors and make the circuit work at higher loads, but it would take about 12 Farads to get the same performance at a 2.12A load down to 10V that the 0.625-Farad design achieves at a 200mA load down to 8V. That much capacitance would be significantly larger -- and perhaps heavier -- than a small battery. In this case, it looks like a lead-acid battery or one of the TCW Li-Fe-PO packs... http://www.tcwtech.com/ibbs_integrated_backup_battery_system_3ah_6ah.html ...might be your best bet. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476183#476183 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 06, 2017
Ward, I chose capacitors for the device based on another member's request to support an MGL Xtreme EFIS/EMS unit, which draws ~200mA and will operate down to 8V. Going by the specifications in the installation manual... http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Garmin/GNS480_IM.pdf ...in section 1.3 on page 1-6, we see that the GNS480 requires a minimum of 10V. Adding the three power inputs (Main, VHF Nav and Comm) together, the total "typical" current draw is 2.12A. Those minimum values probably assume that the boot sequence is complete, the GPS receivers are locked and the processor is mostly idle. It also assumes that it's warm enough that the backlight heater is off; add another 0.8A for the heater in low ambient temps. With those numbers, the Voltage Slump Eliminator would support a GNS480 for somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 of a second; so, not very useful. If it's possible to power only the "Main" input to the GNS480 and leave the VHF Nav and Comm sections unpowered until after engine start, then the situation improves a bit: ~1.1 second. It would certainly be possible to source much larger supercapacitors and make the circuit work at higher loads, but it would take about 12 Farads to get the same performance at a 2.12A load down to 10V that the 0.625-Farad design achieves at a 200mA load down to 8V. That much capacitance would be significantly larger -- and perhaps heavier -- than a small battery. In this case, it looks like a lead-acid battery or one of the TCW Li-Fe-PO packs... http://www.tcwtech.com/ibbs_integrated_backup_battery_system_3ah_6ah.html ...might be your best bet. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476184#476184 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 06, 2017
Eric, Thanks for assessing this! I already have TCW's 3AH IBBS, but alas, it's full up ;) I also looked at their Intelligent Power Stabilizer, and for significantly less cost thought I'd check on your system first. I did note in TCW's IPS install manual that for Garmin GPS units it only calls for hooking up the main power connection, and not the VHF Nav/Com, as you highlighted as well. As many builders/pilots have noted, I simply don't want to be burning unnecessary fuel while inputing a flight plan. Thanks! Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476185#476185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 06, 2017
Wade, I think that the new and improved deslumpifier is worth a try with your GNS480. I connected the original design by Eric Jones to my Dynon D-180 and it was borderline. Sometimes it prevented brownout and sometimes not. According to the D-180 installation manual, the D-180 draws 1.5 amps. 1/2 to 3/4 second of protection might be long enough. The starter motor draws lots of current at first. But as it comes up to speed, it draws less and less. So the battery voltage only sags for a short time. Bob N has conducted tests and recorded data pertaining to starter current and voltage sag. Perhaps he will give his opinion on the length of time that the battery voltage sags below 10 volts. If the avionics were wired with dedicated conductors from the battery instead of sharing the current path with the starter motor, then the voltage drop to the avionics would be less. That discrete avionics current path could be accomplished via an E-Bus or a separate relay. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476192#476192 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 06, 2017
Thanks Joe, good gouge. My starting circuit and Main/E-Bus feed split right at the master contactor, so I'm thinking that's in line with what you're saying. Moreover, I could connect it right off the battery bus if need be. Eric - not to barge into your proverbial kitchen and mess up the recipe, but is there any way to squeak just a bit more capacitance out of your/Eric's design? I'll promise not to hook up the VHF Nav/COM! ;) Either way, I'll take a unit to test out... but if you could supercharge one just a bit that'd be awesome (of course I'd pay whatever the cost difference is). Thanks again guys! Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476193#476193 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chuck and LaVerne Stroh <clstroh(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails
Date: Dec 07, 2017
Hello Matt I have been a member of the list for a number of years. About 6 weeks ago I stopped receiving e-mail updated from the list. I have made no changes to my account. Please help. CLSTROH(at)YAHOO.COM Regards Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
=?iso-8859-1?Q?_Slump_Eliminator=9D? > > >In this case, it looks like a lead-acid battery or one of the TCW >Li-Fe-PO packs... > >http://www.tcwtech.com/ibbs_integrated_backup_battery_system_3ah_6ah.html > >...might be your best bet. Are ALL the power inputs subject to brownout reboot syndrome? A nav and comm receivers are very quick to come on line and 'heaters' certainly don't need to be supported. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name>
Date: Dec 07, 2017
Subject: Clever Wiring for Lamp Dimmer
Folks, I have ten backlit switches in the panel of my plane. I need to wire all of them to the same dimmer, see the diagram on page 4 of the attached AeroRockers Circuit Diagrams, specifically the red line to the PULSE-WIDTH DIMMER box. The switches have Faston tabs. Is there some clever way to wire this? Do I just build something with a Faston terminal at one end for the dimmer and then 10 wires coming out of it, all tied up into a bundle, each with another Faston terminal? -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 07, 2017
Subject: Re: Clever Wiring for Lamp Dimmer
Maybe you can wire a running string of fast-ons with two wires coming out of each fast-on? It reduces reliability to wire in series like that, but switc h illumination is relatively(?) non-critical.. Daniel > On Dec 7, 2017, at 7:06 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > > Folks, > > I have ten backlit switches in the panel of my plane. I need to wire all o f them to the same dimmer, see the diagram on page 4 of the attached AeroRoc kers Circuit Diagrams, specifically the red line to the PULSE-WIDTH DIMMER b ox. The switches have Faston tabs. Is there some clever way to wire this? Do I just build something with a Faston terminal at one end for the dimmer and then 10 wires coming out of it, all tied up into a bundle, each with anothe r Faston terminal? > > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails
At 09:35 AM 12/7/2017, you wrote: >Hello Matt >I have been a member of the list for a number of years. >About 6 weeks ago I stopped receiving e-mail updated from the list. >I have made no changes to my account. >Please help.=C2 CLSTROH(at)YAHOO.COM >Regards >Chuck Not sure what the 'notice' was about. I checked your subscription status on matronics and found this . . . Emacs! If this differs from what you have subscribed to, then you can go to http://matronics.com/subscribe and fix it. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name>
Date: Dec 07, 2017
Subject: Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails
Bob, Something unsubscribed me. I had to resubscribe tonight so that I could post a message. -- Art Z. Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos. On Dec 7, 2017 8:07 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 09:35 AM 12/7/2017, you wrote: > > Hello Matt > I have been a member of the list for a number of years. > About 6 weeks ago I stopped receiving e-mail updated from the list. > I have made no changes to my account. > Please help.=C3=82 CLSTROH(at)YAHOO.COM > Regards > Chuck > > > Not sure what the 'notice' was about. I checked > your subscription status on matronics and found > this . . . > > [image: Emacs!] > > If this differs from what you have subscribed > to, then you can go to http://matronics.com/subscribe > and fix it. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Clever Wiring for Lamp Dimmer
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 07, 2017
How about using Bob's concept for power and ground buses based on a D-Sub connector, but use it to tie your switch illumination lines together? His example uses a DB-25 connector, but you could substitute a DB-15 since you need fewer pins. http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/Minibus1.jpg Get both male and female connectors. Bridge all of the pins together on one of them, then solder your wires to the solder cups on the other one. Mate the connectors and you've got a switch illumination bus. Male: https://www.digikey.com/short/qqq39z Female: https://www.digikey.com/short/qqq39m Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476236#476236 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 07, 2017
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > Are ALL the power inputs subject to brownout reboot syndrome? Nav and comm receivers are very quick to come on line and 'heaters' certainly don't need to be supported. Judging by the installation manual, the heater is powered by the "Main" input, so it's probably not possible to segregate it. I don't know about the Nav and Comm inputs; I have no experience with the GNS480. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476237#476237 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Princehorn" <cliff.princehorn(at)gmail.com>
Subject: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails
Date: Dec 08, 2017
Matt, This came to my computer, i think by error. Cheers Cliff Princehorn 502 / 17 Edgar Street Belmont NSW 2280 Australia Ph 02 4947 9290 Mob 0414 527 509 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 12:48 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails At 09:35 AM 12/7/2017, you wrote: Hello Matt I have been a member of the list for a number of years. About 6 weeks ago I stopped receiving e-mail updated from the list. I have made no changes to my account. Please help.=C2 CLSTROH(at)YAHOO.COM Regards Chuck Not sure what the 'notice' was about. I checked your subscription status on matronics and found this . . . Emacs! If this differs from what you have subscribed to, then you can go to http://matronics.com/subscribe and fix it. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Clever Wiring for Lamp Dimmer
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 07, 2017
On 12/7/2017 7:06 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > Folks, > > I have ten backlit switches in the panel of my plane. I need to wire > all of them to the same dimmer, see the diagram on page 4 of the > attached AeroRockers Circuit Diagrams, specifically the red line to > the PULSE-WIDTH DIMMER box. The switches have Faston tabs. Is there > some clever way to wire this? Do I just build something with a Faston > terminal at one end for the dimmer and then 10 wires coming out of it, > all tied up into a bundle, each with another Faston terminal? > > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, > what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/ That would work fine, or for wiring convenience, you could do multiple joints using the same technique. Say, 3 in the 1st faston, and 3 or 4 into a butt splice on the end of each of the 1st 3. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Clever Wiring for Lamp Dimmer
Question from a neophyte....does the dimmer not create some kind of electrical "noise"? Best... Bob Verwey 082 331 2727 On 8 December 2017 at 07:06, Charlie England wrote: > On 12/7/2017 7:06 PM, Art Zemon wrote: > > Folks, > > I have ten backlit switches in the panel of my plane. I need to wire all > of them to the same dimmer, see the diagram on page 4 of the attached > AeroRockers Circuit Diagrams, specifically the red line to the PULSE-WIDTH > DIMMER box. The switches have Faston tabs. Is there some clever way to wire > this? Do I just build something with a Faston terminal at one end for the > dimmer and then 10 wires coming out of it, all tied up into a bundle, each > with another Faston terminal? > > -- Art Z. > > -- > https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ > > *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what > am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* > > That would work fine, or for wiring convenience, you could do multiple > joints using the same technique. Say, 3 in the 1st faston, and 3 or 4 into > a butt splice on the end of each of the 1st 3. > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_1398500146610424097_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lamp Dimmer
From: John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>
Date: Dec 08, 2017
Hi Guys Can someone recommend a 'dimmer' for the instrument lights, that will achieve this: three position switch - Off- On -Dim Regards John Sent from my iPad ----x--O--x---- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A R Goldman <argoldman(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Lamp Dimmer
You could always get a Lucas automobile dimmer. It has 3positions OFF DIM and FLICKER Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 8, 2017, at 3:04 AM, John Tipton wrote: > > > Hi Guys > > Can someone recommend a 'dimmer' for the instrument lights, that will achieve this: three position switch - Off- On -Dim > > Regards > > John > > Sent from my iPad > > ----x--O--x---- > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lamp Dimmer
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 08, 2017
Do you mean that you want off and two fixed brightnesses (dim and full) or do you want off and an adjustable brightness up to full? If the former, then you just need a SPDT [OFF-ON-ON] switch and a high wattage resistor of a value that gives the brightness you desire. Dim goes through the switch then through the resistor, bright just goes through the switch. We can help with resistor value and wattage if you can post specifics about your installation. If you want adjustable brightness, then Eric Jones makes/sells a linear dimmer unit here... http://www.periheliondesign.com/egpavr.htm Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476250#476250 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Clever Wiring for Lamp Dimmer
At 11:51 PM 12/7/2017, you wrote: >Question from a neophyte....does the dimmer not create some kind of >electrical "noise"? Some do, most don't . . . but there is no 'general rule' Emacs! Illumination feeders to multiple swithces can be 'daisy cahined' with short segments of wire crimped into the fast-ons as suggested above. Eric Jones offers a little dimmer assembly (noise free) that would work nicely with this task. https://goo.gl/ndNhX3 Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name>
Date: Dec 08, 2017
Subject: Re: Clever Wiring for Lamp Dimmer
Thanks, everybody. -- Art Z. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mounting Holes for B&C Fuse Blocks
From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2017
The text says, "ships with #10-32 hardware". --- But they don't --- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476270#476270 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name>
Date: Dec 09, 2017
Subject: Re: Mounting Holes for B&C Fuse Blocks
The aviation aisle at TruValue has what you need. -- Art Z. Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos. On Dec 9, 2017 10:05 AM, "JOHN TIPTON" wrote: jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> The text says, "ships with #10-32 hardware". --- But they don't --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails
From: "Martymason" <captainmarty(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Dec 09, 2017
My subscriptions to the digest version of the AeroElectric, Europa and Rotax list have not been working since the end of November. I have tried to re-subscribe but to no avail. Does anyone have a solution? Marty Mason -------- Marty Mason Norcross, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476272#476272 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2017
Subject: stacking ring terminals or ?
I have six wires that need to connect to the #10 stud on the capacitor associated with my regulator-rectifier. It seems that my options are to use a separate ring terminal for each wire and stack them on the stud, run several wires (as convenient) into a single ring terminal, reducing the number of terminals to three, or use the stud to attach some sort of "bus bar" that will accept the separate ring terminals. Are all of these methods acceptable? Does one sound better than the rest? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2017
From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Subject: E-mail
I too have not received any mail from the digest versions either. I re-subscribed 3 times and e-mailed Matt and the list manager and have not received an answer. Bobby ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2017
I prefer to use as few ring terminals as possible. For a similar situation, I have used a ring terminal made for #10 wire and filled it with several smaller wires. The ring terminal screw hole is available in various sizes. Heat shrink tubing around all of the wires and terminal barrel will provide some strain relief. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476276#476276 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2017
The daily digest stopped coming to me also. No matter, I use this link to read the messages on the AeroElectric List. http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=3 -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476277#476277 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seeking Prior Discussion On Adding Rotax External Alternator
From: "jnmeade" <jnmeade(at)southslope.net>
Date: Dec 09, 2017
I'm adding the external 40A alternator to the Rotax 912. I've looked at the Rotax wiring diagrams and Z 12-14. I'd like to take advantage of any prior discussion about this topic rather than start a new message to till old ground. I don't see anything in the archives but am hoping if there is something someone can point me to it. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476282#476282 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails
From: "rvtach" <rvtach(at)msn.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
Same with my account. When I initially checked my subscription status it showed that I was subscribed to Aeroelectric list Digest emails. So I unsubscribed and re-upped thinking that might "re-set" everything to the way it used to be. No joy. So I unsubscribed again, waited 24 hours and re-subscribed and still no digest. Any help Matt? -------- Jim McChesney Tucson, AZ RV-7A Finishing Kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476294#476294 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
Subject: Bose ANR Jacks and Grounding, Alternator AC Limits
In the course of investigating a possible ground loop in the audio system, I'm wondering if the Bose LEMO jacks might be to blame. As I understand the Bose instructions, it seems that the ground for the ANR system returns via the audio grounds. I have the LEMO jacks geographically adjacent and electrically parallel to the traditional 1/4" jacks, with about 4 inches of wire between them, with no shields. Wires going from the traditional jacks to the intercom are shielded with the shields grounded to the intercom back plate only. Here is how I have the LEMO pins wired currently: Pin 1 goes to a fuse on the main bus Pin 2 goes to the sleeve on the 1/4 audio connector (Ground, audio low, goes to intercom audio low pin associated with the seat) Pin 3 goes to the tip on the 1/4 audio connector (Left audio, goes to intercom) Pin 4 goes to the ring on the 1/4 audio connector (right audio, goes to intercom) Pin 5 goes to the ring on the .206 mic connector (mic high, goes to intercom) Pin 6 goes to the sleeve on the .206 mic connector (mic low, goes to intercom) The intercom is a PSEngineering PAR100EX, though the symptoms have persisted through a few intercoms. All mic and audio jacks are isolated from ground with insulating washers. They symptoms are a faint crackly noise from the Skyview system that goes away when it is powered off, and RPM-dependent noise from the alternator that goes away when I de-energize the field. I measured 0.6 volts AC on the alternator output, but Plane Power says anything less than 1 volt is in spec. 1 volt seems a little high relative to the conventional wisdom I'm finding elsewhere. Does that sound reasonable? I'm open to any troubleshooting strategies for trying to make the noise go away. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
Thanks Joe. I got 3 X 14awg into a #10 terminal, and good strain relief using self-fusing silicone tape. Next up, two 16awg + 1 14awg, and then a single #10. Three ring terminals instead of seven. (original post forgot about a voltage sensing wire) On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 1:36 PM, user9253 wrote: > > I prefer to use as few ring terminals as possible. For a similar > situation, I have used a ring terminal made for #10 wire and filled it with > several smaller wires. The ring terminal screw hole is available in > various sizes. Heat shrink tubing around all of the wires and terminal > barrel will provide some strain relief. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476276#476276 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Mounting Holes for B&C Fuse Blocks
At 09:45 AM 12/9/2017, you wrote: > > >The text says, "ships with #10-32 hardware". --- But they don't --- > > It's been a few years but If I recall correctly, that's an 'echo' of the Bussman literature describing the fuse block . . . and it refers to the wire attach post on the end of the bus bar . . . not the hardward that attaches to the aircraft. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Seeking Prior Discussion On Adding Rotax External
Alternator At 11:03 PM 12/9/2017, you wrote: > >I'm adding the external 40A alternator to the Rotax 912. I've >looked at the Rotax wiring diagrams and Z 12-14. I'd like to take >advantage of any prior discussion about this topic rather than start >a new message to till old ground. I don't see anything in the >archives but am hoping if there is something someone can point me to it. >Thanks > > If it were my airplane, I'd go with Z13/8 wherein the 40A machine becomes the main alternator and the 18A PM alternator becomes the standby . . . An alternative is to wire like Z12 with BOTH alternators driving the main bus directly wherein the 18A alternator is still the standby. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
At 02:04 PM 12/9/2017, you wrote: >I have six wires that need to connect to the #10 stud on the >capacitor associated with my regulator-rectifier. It seems that my >options are to use a separate ring terminal for each wire and stack >them on the stud, run several wires (as convenient) into a single >ring terminal, reducing the number of terminals to three, or use the >stud to attach some sort of "bus bar" that will accept the separate >ring terminals. Are all of these methods acceptable? Does one sound >better than the rest? How did you get so many wires on the capacitor . . . we generally see two or less per terminal. Emacs! More than two gets a bit messy in that you have to clock the terminals around the stud to achieve mate up. Putting two or more wires into an appropriately sized terminal is acceptable and in your case, may be the more elegant solution. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: unable to receive auyomatic list e-mails
At 10:18 AM 12/10/2017, you wrote: > >Same with my account. When I initially checked my subscription >status it showed that I was subscribed to Aeroelectric list Digest >emails. So I unsubscribed and re-upped thinking that might "re-set" >everything to the way it used to be. No joy. So I unsubscribed >again, waited 24 hours and re-subscribed and still no digest. > >Any help Matt? If you want to contact Matt, you need to email him directly at dralle(at)matronics.com There is no practical way he can monitor an pick up questions directed to him from the text of a posting . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
Subject: Re: Bose ANR Jacks and Grounding, Alternator AC Limits
Jared, I had the same noises on my last install of Bose Lemo plugs. I used the number 22 black with white stripe wire that is listed as the shield in the instructions. All my other devices say to keep the shield grounds less than 4 in hes long. I just finished a new install of two Lemo plugs and this time I cut the black/white wires off abd spliced the shields from the head phone and mic cables to the audio paneh shield wires. Perfectly quiet now. I do not have the normal jacks in this plane but those long shield grounds on the Lemo plugs look to be the problem. You said you did not use the shields, maybe removing the b/w wire and using a splice to the shields would help on your setup as well. Don On Sunday, December 10, 2017, Jared Yates wrote: > In the course of investigating a possible ground loop in the audio system, I'm wondering if the Bose LEMO jacks might be to blame. As I understand the Bose instructions, it seems that the ground for the ANR system returns via the audio grounds. I have the LEMO jacks geographically adjacent and electrically parallel to the traditional 1/4" jacks, with about 4 inches of wire between them, with no shields. Wires going from the traditional jacks to the intercom are shielded with the shields grounded to the intercom back plate only. > Here is how I have the LEMO pins wired currently: > Pin 1 goes to a fuse on the main bus > Pin 2 goes to the sleeve on the 1/4 audio connector (Ground, audio low, goes to intercom audio low pin associated with the seat) > Pin 3 goes to the tip on the 1/4 audio connector (Left audio, goes to intercom) > Pin 4 goes to the ring on the 1/4 audio connector (right audio, goes to intercom) > Pin 5 goes to the ring on the .206 mic connector (mic high, goes to intercom) > Pin 6 goes to the sleeve on the .206 mic connector (mic low, goes to intercom) > The intercom is a PSEngineering PAR100EX, though the symptoms have persisted through a few intercoms. All mic and audio jacks are isolated from ground with insulating washers. > > They symptoms are a faint crackly noise from the Skyview system that goes away when it is powered off, and RPM-dependent noise from the alternator that goes away when I de-energize the field. I measured 0.6 volts AC on the alternator output, but Plane Power says anything less than 1 volt is in spec. 1 volt seems a little high relative to the conventional wisdom I'm finding elsewhere. Does that sound reasonable? > I'm open to any troubleshooting strategies for trying to make the noise go away. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2017
From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Subject: No e-mails
Same with my account. When I checked my subscription status it showed that I was subscribed to Aeroelectric list and other Digest emails. So I unsubscribed and re-upped thinking that might "re-set" everything to the way it used to be. No joy. So I unsubscribed again, waited 24 hours and re-subscribed and still no digest. I re-subscribed 3 times to no avail. E-mailed Matt and list manager with no reply bobby ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
Bob, This is for a Rotax 914 where I have assigned the primary function of the dynamo to powering the main fuel pump: Here's how I ended up with so many wires to my capacitor: A. 3 x 16AWG from the regulator rectifier (R, B+, C) B. 1 X 16AWG to power main fuel pump C. 1 X 16AWG to (ON)-OFF-ON switch for energizing the regulator-rectifier (this could have been a smaller wire) D. 1 X 20AWG to EMS for measuring voltage output of dynamo E. 1 X 10AWG to relay for connecting dynamo output to bus (will probably never use this) The last one I added specifically because of your expressed dissatisfaction with relegating the dynamo to only powering the fuel pump. Drawing attached, but not confident it will show up on forum. Ken On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 02:04 PM 12/9/2017, you wrote: > > I have six wires that need to connect to the #10 stud on the capacitor > associated with my regulator-rectifier. It seems that my options are to use > a separate ring terminal for each wire and stack them on the stud, run > several wires (as convenient) into a single ring terminal, reducing the > number of terminals to three, or use the stud to attach some sort of "bus > bar" that will accept the separate ring terminals. Are all of these methods > acceptable? Does one sound better than the rest? > > > How did you get so many wires on the capacitor . . . > we generally see two or less per terminal. > > [image: Emacs!] > > More than two gets a bit messy in that you > have to clock the terminals around the stud > to achieve mate up. Putting two or more wires > into an appropriately sized terminal is acceptable > and in your case, may be the more elegant solution. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
Correction to previous post: A. 3 x 14AWG (not 16AWG) On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > Bob, > > This is for a Rotax 914 where I have assigned the primary function of the > dynamo to powering the main fuel pump: Here's how I ended up with so many > wires to my capacitor: > > A. 3 x 16AWG from the regulator rectifier (R, B+, C) > B. 1 X 16AWG to power main fuel pump > C. 1 X 16AWG to (ON)-OFF-ON switch for energizing the regulator-rectifier > (this could have been a smaller wire) > D. 1 X 20AWG to EMS for measuring voltage output of dynamo > E. 1 X 10AWG to relay for connecting dynamo output to bus (will probably > never use this) > > The last one I added specifically because of your expressed > dissatisfaction with relegating the dynamo to only powering the fuel pump. > > Drawing attached, but not confident it will show up on forum. > > Ken > > On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> At 02:04 PM 12/9/2017, you wrote: >> >> I have six wires that need to connect to the #10 stud on the capacitor >> associated with my regulator-rectifier. It seems that my options are to use >> a separate ring terminal for each wire and stack them on the stud, run >> several wires (as convenient) into a single ring terminal, reducing the >> number of terminals to three, or use the stud to attach some sort of "bus >> bar" that will accept the separate ring terminals. Are all of these methods >> acceptable? Does one sound better than the rest? >> >> >> How did you get so many wires on the capacitor . . . >> we generally see two or less per terminal. >> >> [image: Emacs!] >> >> More than two gets a bit messy in that you >> have to clock the terminals around the stud >> to achieve mate up. Putting two or more wires >> into an appropriately sized terminal is acceptable >> and in your case, may be the more elegant solution. >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
Due to a circuit board layout error (which I'm blaming on stray particles from space...) the screw holes in these PCBs are a full diameter out of alignment from the mounting bosses in the enclosures. Fortunately, PCBs are cheap these days, so I've revised the board and ordered new ones. They should be here o/a 16 Dec. If you downloaded the related archive for this project, please update your files. The PCB CAD file and Gerber files have changed, and there was a minor update to an annotation in the schematic. To avoid having to update multiple posts if there are further changes, I'm only updating links in the original forum post. Thus, links for the current schematic and design file archive can be found in the first post of this thread, above. Link for email users: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16768408 Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476317#476317 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
At 01:41 PM 12/10/2017, you wrote: >Correction to previous post: > >A. 3 x 14AWG (not 16AWG) > >On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Ken Ryan ><keninalaska(at)gmail.com> wrote: >Bob, > >This is for a Rotax 914 where I have assigned the primary function >of the dynamo to powering the main fuel pump: Here's how I ended up >with so many wires to my capacitor: > >A. 3 x 16AWG from the regulator rectifier (R, B+, C) >B. 1 X 16AWG to power main fuel pump >C. 1 X 16AWG to (ON)-OFF-ON switch for energizing the >regulator-rectifier (this could have been a smaller wire) >D. 1 X 20AWG to EMS for measuring voltage output of dynamo >E. 1 X 10AWG to relay for connecting dynamo output to bus (will >probably never use this) That's a pretty good wad of wires . . . Suggest you fabricate a terminal post to mount adjacent to the capacitor. Come to think of it, I may have one already built. It's a piece of Delrin about 2.3 x 0.8 inches and about 0.5 thick. Has two 10-32 studs 0.75 long and mounts to airframe with 8-32 screws. The heads are countersunk into the bottom and potted with JB Kwik. Needed a dozen or so on a project about 10 years ago and had some left over . . . now if I can just remember where they are . . . You can have it if you wish . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
The Dynamo relay switch has a wire connected to the momentary terminal. I see no purpose for that wire. It is not required to energize regulator terminal "C" because terminal C will get power through the relay and 30 amp fuse. In my Rotax 912ULS powered RV-12, I connected the capacitor to the main power bus through a 10 amp fuse. (Inrush current blew 5 amp fuses) There should be a switch to shut off fuel pump 1 unless that is a pullable circuit breaker. Shutting off the relay will not shut off the fuel pump 1 because once the rectifier/regulator is outputting power, it can not be shut off except by shutting off the engine. I know because I experimented with my plane by temporarily connecting rectifier/regulator terminals R & B & C together. The rectifier/regulator kept on outputting power after the master switch was shut off. The starter contactor coil and relay coil need arc suppression diodes just like the master contactor coil. The diode arrows point towards positive. The 30amp fuse should be relocated close to the starter contactor to protect the 10awg wire. The dynamo is self current limiting. Try using "express sch" to draw your schematics instead of paper and pencil. It is free. https://www.expresspcb.com/expresspcb/ Scroll down the web page to "DownLoad Classic" (RED box). -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476324#476324 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
Thanks for the offer Bob. No need to find them. I happen to have a small bus bar that should serve the same purpose. It's good idea. Do you think #8 wire would be adequate for connecting it to the capacitor? Ken On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 01:41 PM 12/10/2017, you wrote: > > Correction to previous post: > > A. 3 x 14AWG (not 16AWG) > > On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Ken Ryan wrote: > > Bob, > > This is for a Rotax 914 where I have assigned the primary function of the > dynamo to powering the main fuel pump: Here's how I ended up with so many > wires to my capacitor: > > A. 3 x 16AWG from the regulator rectifier (R, B+, C) > B. 1 X 16AWG to power main fuel pump > C. 1 X 16AWG to (ON)-OFF-ON switch for energizing the regulator-rectifier > (this could have been a smaller wire) > D. 1 X 20AWG to EMS for measuring voltage output of dynamo > E. 1 X 10AWG to relay for connecting dynamo output to bus (will probably > never use this) > > That's a pretty good wad of wires . . . > > Suggest you fabricate a terminal post to mount > adjacent to the capacitor. Come to think of it, > I may have one already built. It's a piece of > Delrin about 2.3 x 0.8 inches and about 0.5 > thick. Has two 10-32 studs 0.75 long and mounts > to airframe with 8-32 screws. The heads are countersunk > into the bottom and potted with JB Kwik. Needed > a dozen or so on a project about 10 years ago and > had some left over . . . now if I can just remember > where they are . . . > > You can have it if you wish . . . > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2017
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
Joe, Thanks much for taking the time to look at my drawing. Here's my thinking: The Dynamo relay switch has a wire connected to the momentary terminal. I see no purpose for that wire. It is not required to energize regulator terminal "C" because terminal C will get power through the relay and 30 amp fuse. My intention was to completely isolate the two charging systems. Normal operations would never call for the dynamo relay to be closed; I don't see myself ever needing to close that relay. And if I did, it would be after shutting down the alternator (again in the quest of keeping the systems separate). The only reason I added that relay is because Bob objected to relegating the dynamo to only powering the main fuel pump, so in deference to his wisdom I worked in the relay which does make it "possible" to power the bus using the dynamo. I "think" my architecture accomplishes these objectives. In my Rotax 912ULS powered RV-12, I connected the capacitor to the main power bus through a 10 amp fuse. (Inrush current blew 5 amp fuses) That tells me that my 10 amp fuse on the bus for the wire that energizes the regulator is correct. There should be a switch to shut off fuel pump 1 unless that is a pullable circuit breaker. Shutting off the relay will not shut off the fuel pump 1 because once the rectifier/regulator is outputting power, it can not be shut off except by shutting off the engine. Again, the relay will remain open, unless some unanticipated event causes me to close it. The 10 amp panel breaker is a pullable breaker and that is my switch should I ever need to shut off the main fuel pump. The starter contactor coil and relay coil need arc suppression diodes just like the master contactor coil. The diode arrows point towards positive. Thank you! I definitely missed that. How could I watch this list for several years (and own Bob's Bible) and still miss that? The 30amp fuse should be relocated close to the starter contactor to protect the 10awg wire. Thank you for that, too. Sometimes I get confused on exactly what the fuse is protecting! Try using "express sch" to draw your schematics instead of paper and pencil. It is free. https://www.expresspcb.com/expresspcb/ Scroll down the web page to "DownLoad Classic" (RED box). I will try it. I have tried a couple of programs in the past and found the learning curve frustrating. I would love to be able to produce better drawings. Thanks again for looking at my stuff. Let me know if my reasoning above makes sense to you. Ken On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 2:31 PM, user9253 wrote: > > The Dynamo relay switch has a wire connected to the > > momentary terminal. I see no purpose for that wire. It > > is not required to energize regulator terminal "C" > > because terminal C will get power through the relay and > > 30 amp fuse. > In my Rotax 912ULS powered RV-12, I connected the > > capacitor to the main power bus through a 10 amp fuse. > > (Inrush current blew 5 amp fuses) > There should be a switch to shut off fuel pump 1 > > unless that is a pullable circuit breaker. Shutting off > > the relay will not shut off the fuel pump 1 because once > > the rectifier/regulator is outputting power, it can not > > be shut off except by shutting off the engine. I know > > because I experimented with my plane by temporarily > > connecting rectifier/regulator terminals R & B & C > > together. The rectifier/regulator kept on outputting > > power after the master switch was shut off. > The starter contactor coil and relay coil need arc > > suppression diodes just like the master contactor coil. > > The diode arrows point towards positive. > The 30amp fuse should be relocated close to the > > starter contactor to protect the 10awg wire. The dynamo > > is self current limiting. > Try using "express sch" to draw your schematics instead of paper and > pencil. It is free. > https://www.expresspcb.com/expresspcb/ > Scroll down the web page to "DownLoad Classic" (RED box). > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476324#476324 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
At 06:14 PM 12/10/2017, you wrote: >Thanks for the offer Bob. No need to find them. I happen to have a >small bus bar that should serve the same purpose. It's good idea. Do >you think #8 wire would be adequate for connecting it to the capacitor? #12 would probably be fine . . . you've only got a 20A system. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2017
A 5 amp circuit breaker should be big enough for the 35 amp alternator field. Capacitor current is not very much once energized. 18 AWG wire is big enough if the wire only carries capacitor current. The 10 amp fuse that activates the regulator also carries fuel pump #1 current and capacitor inrush current. Another consideration is if the rectifier/regulator output voltage happens to be higher than main alternator voltage, then the dynamo will power the whole aircraft while the momentary switch is closed. The momentary switch might only be closed for a couple of seconds, but that is all it takes to blow a fuse. It is only a matter of time before a pilot forgets to activate the rectifier/regulator. A diode could be used instead of a momentary switch. I used ExpressSCH to draw the circuit and Snagit to capture the picture. Or ExpressSCH can print to CutePDF Writer to make a PDF document. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476333#476333 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/diode_577.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andy Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: Debug plan for flaky NavCom operation?
Date: Dec 11, 2017
I have recently purchased an RV with an SL-30 as the #2 radio. Operation of this radio is very inconsistent. Typically on the ground on battery power I get good reception and transmission on local frequencies. Sometime after engine start, I pick up a *lot* of background static on some, but not all, frequencies. At least on the ground, I can still talk and receive on these frequencies, overcoming the static. But in the air, this radio is very flaky, both com and nav. Sometimes it seems to work OK, but sometimes I can't receive the local ATIS from 10 miles away when it is clear on the #1 radio. The static sometimes is there and sometimes not. Sometimes the VOR reception is good and correct, and sometimes it loses lock or report an obviously wrong radial. (I haven't tried the ILS yet.) My first thought was that there must be a bad ground somewhere, but before going in with the flashlight and meter (which is not a trivial process, of course), and before considering pulling the radio and having it tested (Garmin's flat repair prices are $$$.), I thought I would try to get a debug plan from the group here. Basically, I need a sequence of things to check in order, hopefully going from simple to more difficult, which would lead to (a) resolution of the problem or (b) a decision to send the radio for check/repair. Anyone have such a plan?? Thanks, Andy Elliott -------------------------- Andy Elliott, RV-8, N303RV CL: 480-695-9568 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bose ANR Jacks and Grounding, Alternator AC Limits
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2017
Hi Don, I have mine wired up like Jared's, still in build mode so can't test yet. But just to clarify your statement: > I just finished a new install of two Lemo plugs and this time I cut the black/white wires off Meaning you cut them off totally? No other action with these 2 black/white wires? > spliced the shields from the head phone and mic cables to the audio panel shield wires. Essentially per a traditional headset jack install? Curious about this since my LEMO plug sits adjacent to the standard plugs. I wired per Bose instructions. My black/white wires connect to the white/blue wire (low) tab of the jacks. Since the black/white wires are simply a wire extension of each cable pair (phone & mic/ptt) ground shield, is it fair to say in sticking with the LEMO+standard jacks configuration that IF I hear noise I should disconnect the black/white wires from each jack tab and subsequently wire each black/white wire into the respective standard jack's cable shields? To be clear, my headset jack wire shields currently simply terminate (no connection) at the jack end and are just "floating." Cheers, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476335#476335 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How do I prevent starter engaged LED from failing?
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2017
Bob, I'm getting to ready to build my engine the middle of next month (Jan 18 ) and wanted to clarify the starter-on warning circuit. I have mine depicted as per the Z-13/8 diagram with a connected wire off the starter contactor post. Off the starter contactor, the lead then runs through a 2A inline fuse, then a 2K ohm resistor (as per AG6 instructions) and then runs back to the panel (I'm in a Long-EZ, so up to the front) and terminates into an AG6 warning annunciator as my "warning light." First, in this configuration would there be any reason to change the starter-on warning wire lead connection point from the contactor post to the actual starter? Second, I'm thinking for the protection of the AG6 I should add a protective diode hanging off the circuit either as you and/or Joe depicted. Do you think this is advisable for my configuration? Thanks, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476336#476336 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Debug plan for flaky NavCom operation?
> >But in the air, this radio is very flaky, both com and >nav. Sometimes it seems to work OK, but sometimes I can't receive >the local ATIS from 10 miles away when it is clear on the #1 >radio. The static sometimes is there and sometimes not. Sometimes >the VOR reception is good and correct, and sometimes it loses lock >or report an obviously wrong radial. (I haven't tried the ILS yet.) > >My first thought was that there must be a bad ground somewhere, but >before going in with the flashlight and meter (which is not a >trivial process, of course), and before considering pulling the >radio and having it tested (Garmin's flat repair prices are $$$.), I >thought I would try to get a debug plan from the group >here. Basically, I need a sequence of things to check in order, >hopefully going from simple to more difficult, which would lead to >(a) resolution of the problem or (b) a decision to send the radio >for check/repair. If I'm reading the installation manual correctly, the nav and comm sections of this radio are completely independently powered with their own antennas and audio outputs. The fact that both features are affected suggests that the problem is not in the radio itself. Is your avionics shop local or do you have to ship the radio off? I used to be able to get a functional look-see done on a radio for a very nominal price . . . not looking for an inspection for return to service, just sensitivity chex on one frequency of each radio and normal transmitter behavior. This is a simple if not cheap check that would rule in/out installation deficiencies. Do you have an audio panel? Has the SL30 radio ever worked for you or has it always been flaky? Are you using a splitter on the nav antenna to drive both #1 and SL30? You might try swapping the comm antennas between the two radios and doing a VSWR check on both antennas while you're at it. Is the problem consistent whether or not the engine is running? Whether or not the alternator is on line? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2017
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
Thanks as always Joe. Comments: The 10 amp fuse that activates the regulator also carries fuel pump #1 current and capacitor inrush current. I had not considered this, but with #16 wire I should be able up the fuse size if necessary. Another consideration is if the rectifier/regulator output voltage happens to be higher than main alternator voltage, then the dynamo will power the whole aircraft while the momentary switch is closed. The momentary switch might only be closed for a couple of seconds, but that is all it takes to blow a fuse. I had not considered this, either. Rotax says the reg/rect output is 14 +/- 0.3 volts from 1000 +/- 250 rpm and the alternator output is 14.2 - 14.8 volts. Additionally I finally found a source for the Silent-Hektik regulator, which I have ordered and will probably use. The Silent-Hektik has a stepped charging profile whereby it starts out at only 12.5 volts for the first three minutes, peaking at about 14.4 volts. So, I'm not sure whether or not the dynamo will be carrying the bus while the momentary contact switch is closed. Let's consider what happens during operation. Startup procedure is to turn on the auxiliary pump and crank the engine. The oil pressure switch allows the auxiliary pump to instantly energize and get the engine running. Now the engine is running and the alternator is presumed to be supplying the bus with 14.2 - 14.8 volts. The next step is to energize the regulator-rectifier using the momentary contact switch. This will energize the primary fuel pump and also energize (as you have pointed out) the wire from the capacitor, through the switch and 10 amp fuse, to the bus. If the alternator voltage is less than the reg/rect voltage, that wire will also be carrying all bus loads for the time that the momentary switch is closed. This could blow the 10 amp fuse. Even if I increase that fuse to 15 amps, it is possible it could blow. Keep in mind that this is all happening on the ground, so if the fuse blows it is not a disaster. Given that this circuit is #16 wire, and that the switch is momentary (couple of seconds at most) do you think it would be okay to use a 20 amp fuse for this circuit? If yes, I think that solves that problem. This brings up another question I have. When that same switch (ON)-OFF-ON is placed in the ON position, that wire is again connected to the bus. But at the same time the relay is closed and the fatter #12 wire is also connected to the bus. I am assuming that the two wires will share the loads and the fuse size on the #16 wire will no longer be an issue. Is that correct? Another possible scenario would be flying along normally, with the alternator carrying the bus and the dynamo carrying the main fuel pump. Suppose the momentary contact switch is inadvertantly closed under this scenario, and the fuse in question does blow. What would happen? It seems to me that main fuel pump should continue to run, and the alternator should continue to supply the bus. The only thing lost would be the ability to energize the reg/rect using bus voltage (after the engine is shut down). Do you agree? It is only a matter of time before a pilot forgets to activate the rectifier/regulator. A diode could be used instead of a momentary switch. It could happen, but given that it is tied to fuel pump management on an engine that requires an electric fuel pump to run, that would be some very sloppy piloting. It is very much like saying "it is only a matter of time before the pilot forgets to put fuel in the airplane." But let's look at the diode possibility anyway. If a diode were used instead of the switch as shown in your drawing, then on startup the reg/rect would be energized as soon as the dynamo spits out enough voltage to activate it. Only then would the main fuel pump become energized. It might be necessary to turn on the auxiliary pump for starting. If it is, that means that on startup both fuel pumps would be running. I don't see any problem with that. But what about the need to disconnect the reg/rect to prevent running down the battery? I guess that is covered by the battery contactor. Or maybe the diode itself protects against this? So it appears that the diode instead of the switch should work for energizing the reg/rect. Would a diode also address the previously discussed possibility of blowing the fuse because the #16 wire might be carrying the bus loads (rather than the alternator)? It seems that it would. Are there any downsides? Is a diode more or less prone to failure than a switch? (It seems that diode failure in alternators is pretty common.) What are the failure modes of a diode? Does it make any difference where in the wire the diode is located? You always make me think, Joe. Ken On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 6:41 AM, user9253 wrote: > > A 5 amp circuit breaker should be big enough for the 35 > amp alternator field. > Capacitor current is not very much once energized. > 18 AWG wire is big enough if the wire only carries > capacitor current. > The 10 amp fuse that activates the regulator also > carries fuel pump #1 current and capacitor inrush > current. Another consideration is if the > rectifier/regulator output voltage happens to be higher > than main alternator voltage, then the dynamo will power > the whole aircraft while the momentary switch is closed. > The momentary switch might only be closed for a couple > of seconds, but that is all it takes to blow a fuse. > It is only a matter of time before a pilot forgets to activate > the rectifier/regulator. A diode could be used instead of a > momentary switch. > I used ExpressSCH to draw the circuit and Snagit to capture > the picture. Or ExpressSCH can print to CutePDF Writer to > make a PDF document. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476333#476333 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/diode_577.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Bose ANR Jacks and Grounding, Alternator AC
Limits The B/w wires are connected to the mic and headphone shields at the Lemo plug end.The shields are floating at the Lemo plug end The B/W wire is supposed to connect to the existing shieldsfor the mic and phones. In my case this would have left 3 feet of shield ground wire and the normal is to keep this wire leng to under 3 inches.I did this by cutting the B/W wire off at the lemo end. I left the shield floating at the Lemo end and joined the shields where I spliced into the corespnoding wires from the audio panel.The fully shielded conductors then had the shields terminated at the audio panel.I believe that using three feet of shield ground wire was the entry point of my noise issue. The problem was eliminated but I can not prove that my fix was the solution. On Monday, December 11, 2017, Airdog77 wrote: > > Hi Don, > > I have mine wired up like Jared's, still in build mode so can't test yet. But just to clarify your statement: > > >> I just finished a new install of two Lemo plugs and this time I cut the black/white wires off > > > Meaning you cut them off totally? No other action with these 2 black/white wires? > > >> spliced the shields from the head phone and mic cables to the audio panel shield wires. > > > Essentially per a traditional headset jack install? > > Curious about this since my LEMO plug sits adjacent to the standard plugs. I wired per Bose instructions. My black/white wires connect to the white/blue wire (low) tab of the jacks. > > Since the black/white wires are simply a wire extension of each cable pair (phone & mic/ptt) ground shield, is it fair to say in sticking with the LEMO+standard jacks configuration that IF I hear noise I should disconnect the black/white wires from each jack tab and subsequently wire each black/white wire into the respective standard jack's cable shields? > > To be clear, my headset jack wire shields currently simply terminate (no connection) at the jack end and are just "floating." > > Cheers, > Wade > > -------- > Airdog > Wade Parton > Building Long-EZ N916WP > www.longezpush.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476335#476335 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2017
Subject: diode vs snapjack
Which is better for use on relays, the "standard" diode or the "snapjack" (bi-directional zener transient voltage suppressor)? Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2017
Ken, I see nothing wrong with the reasoning in your last post. But about the 10 amp fuse and momentary switch circuit, I suggest that the (ON)-OFF-ON switch be replaced with a simple ON-OFF SPST switch to energize the relay coil. Replace that 10 amp fuse with a 3 amp fuse. When you want to activate the reg/rect, just turn on the relay, then shut it back off. There is no worry about ampacity of wires or fuse. Now if you want to reduce pilot workload and make that function automatic, then use a fuse and diode between the starter and reg/rect, assuming that the starter contactor will remain energized until the reg/rect is operating. The diode will allow current to flow in only one direction, towards the reg/rect. A switch is more likely to fail than a diode if the diode is properly rated and installed. Diodes fail if they get too hot. Keep them cool and they will last a very long time. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476349#476349 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: diode vs snapjack
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2017
Whichever is less expensive and easiest to install. A few years ago there was a "heated discussion" between two very knowledgeable people on this forum. I listened to both sides and do not think it matters. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476350#476350 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2017
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
Thanks Joe, now I follow you. I like both approaches. I think I will go with using the relay to energize the reg/rect. To me it makes operations more intuitive. It's a definite improvement getting rid of that three way switch. It is not intuitive to have one switch that behaves differently from all the others. Thanks also for your comment on the snapjack vs diodes. I bought some snapjacks a while back, so I will use them. Ken On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 3:17 PM, user9253 wrote: > > Ken, I see nothing wrong with the reasoning in your last post. But > about the 10 amp fuse and momentary switch circuit, I suggest that > the (ON)-OFF-ON switch be replaced with a simple ON-OFF SPST switch > to energize the relay coil. Replace that 10 amp fuse with a 3 amp fuse. > When you want to activate the reg/rect, just turn on the relay, then shut > it back off. There is no worry about ampacity of wires or fuse. > Now if you want to reduce pilot workload and make that function > automatic, > then use a fuse and diode between the starter and reg/rect, assuming that > the starter contactor will remain energized until the reg/rect is > operating. > The diode will allow current to flow in only one direction, towards the > reg/rect. > A switch is more likely to fail than a diode if the diode is properly > rated > and installed. Diodes fail if they get too hot. Keep them cool and they > will last a very long time. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476349#476349 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bose ANR Jacks and Grounding, Alternator AC Limits
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2017
Roger... Thanks Don! I'm attempting to keep good notes on what you have done for possible troubleshooting later on. -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476356#476356 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2017
Ken, The rectifier/regulator output will be unstable without a battery. The voltage will fluctuate plus and minus about one volt. At least it did in my Rotax powered RV-12 without the battery connected. Maybe your Silent-Hektik regulator will do better. Even if the voltage is unstable, chances are that the fuel pump will still operate normally. The capacitor does not seem to help much. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476357#476357 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: diode vs snapjack
At 03:54 PM 12/11/2017, you wrote: >Which is better for use on relays, the "standard" diode or the >"snapjack" (bi-directional zener transient voltage suppressor)? > >Ken Diodes are fine . . . there were some lengthy discussions on the 'advantages' of voltage compliant spike suppression about 10 years. A great deal of homage was paid to a document published by Tyco no less wherein the author claimed that hard clamping of the coil spike by diode slowed contact spreading velocity and increased wear and tear on the relay. Yes, the diode causes a DELAY in the first motion of the opening contacts . . . but before the contacts start to move, an AIR GAP is introduced into the magnetic circuit that generates the closing force. This air gap has many times more effect on contact spreading velocity than does the decay rate of current in the coil. The Tyco author laid all his eggs in the magnetic force decay due to current in the coil and totally ignored the air gap effects. A simple workbench experiment would have illuminated his attribution error for cause/effect. I spent a few years sifting the sands of relay performance and failures at Beech. Many of the young bucks wearing the boots of their predecessors as engineering reps for relay and contactor manufacturers were glaringly deficient in mentorship by those predecessors . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2017
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
Joe, I followed your testing. Most people I have talked to agree with you that the fuel pump should perform normally even with the unstable voltage. It will be interesting to see what happens. The Silent-Hektik calls for a larger 33000 capacitor. I wonder if a larger capacitor might smooth out the Ducati. Speaking of capacitors, I spent some time yesterday trying to figure out which one to buy for the Silent-Hektik reg/rect. The selection is mind boggling. I currently have a 22000 purchased from B&C. It is a Mallory which apparently is made by Cornell Dubilier. Based on that I came up with this one for the Silent-Hektik: [link to mouser]. Do you think this is the right one? Is there any reason that I could not use the 33000 with the Ducati reg/rect? For those interested in the Silent-Hektik, it looks like they have changed the charging profile to be more friendly with lithium batteries. Here is a google translation of some text from their website talking about this new charging profile: The Silent Hustle 5Step charging technology for lithium-ion batteries The new controller can be used by the 5Step charging technology as well as for previous lead batteries, but especially for the modern ion batteries. The ion batteries have the advantage of delivering a very high starting current for small hubs and low weight. However, this low battery impedance has a serious disadvantage when charging. After starting the battery is dead and it can float well over 20A. Therefore, the ion battery is initially pre-charged with 13V, which significantly reduces the initial charging current and overheating. Then with five steps in about 30 minutes to 14.2V gently recharged. After 90 minutes, then on trickle loading switched. This is a perfect ion battery charging management with charging current control that reduces overheating and overcharging to 90%. The development of the new regulator was carried out in our house with A123 LiFePO4 cells, 14V 7.5Hh, and is recommended as a very reliable lithium-ion starter battery. Ken On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 6:54 AM, user9253 wrote: > > Ken, The rectifier/regulator output will be unstable without a battery. > The voltage will fluctuate plus and minus about one volt. At least it did > in my Rotax powered RV-12 without the battery connected. Maybe your > Silent-Hektik regulator will do better. Even if the voltage is unstable, > chances are that the fuel pump will still operate normally. The capacitor > does not seem to help much. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476357#476357 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2017
Subject: Re: diode vs snapjack
Thanks Bob. Is there any disadvantage to the snapjacks? On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 03:54 PM 12/11/2017, you wrote: > > Which is better for use on relays, the "standard" diode or the "snapjack" > (bi-directional zener transient voltage suppressor)? > > Ken > > > Diodes are fine . . . there were some lengthy discussions > on the 'advantages' of voltage compliant spike suppression > about 10 years. A great deal of homage was paid > to a document published by Tyco no less wherein the author > claimed that hard clamping of the coil spike by diode > slowed contact spreading velocity and increased wear and > tear on the relay. > > Yes, the diode causes a DELAY in the first motion > of the opening contacts . . . but before the contacts > start to move, an AIR GAP is introduced into the > magnetic circuit that generates the closing force. > This air gap has many times more effect on contact > spreading velocity than does the decay rate of current > in the coil. > > The Tyco author laid all his eggs in the magnetic > force decay due to current in the coil and totally > ignored the air gap effects. A simple workbench > experiment would have illuminated his attribution > error for cause/effect. > > I spent a few years sifting the sands of relay performance > and failures at Beech. Many of the young bucks wearing the > boots of their predecessors as engineering reps for relay > and contactor manufacturers were glaringly deficient in > mentorship by those predecessors . . . > > Bob . . . > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: diode vs snapjack
At 11:37 AM 12/12/2017, you wrote: >Thanks Bob. Is there any disadvantage to the snapjacks? costs more Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2017
I am not an expert on capacitors, so maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in. I do not think replacing the 22,000 microfarad capacitor with a 33000 will affect the Ducati regulator. I don't know how much good a capacitor does in smoothing out the voltage. A capacitor would have to accept and store a whole lot of electrons being pushed out by the dynamo voltage peaks. And then the capacitor would have to supply that stored energy to the pump motor during voltage sags. The capacitor just doesn't seem big enough compared to the size of dynamo and motor. If the capacitor is big enough, then why is the voltage unstable when the battery is disconnected? -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476364#476364 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Psiropoulos" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: Garmin SL-30
Date: Dec 12, 2017
Andy: I bought an SL-30 brand new when I was building my RV but it sat on the shelf for 5 years before the airplane flew. I did the wiring of the airplane, which has a full IFR stack of UPS AT gear. The radio received well but had a bit of scratchy transmission and there were a couple times that I noticed it causing my electric pitch trim to move when I keyed the Mike. Also, I have a comant dual element VOR/ILS antenna under the vertical stabilizer on the bottom of the fuselage. While this would seem like a good place to put it, my VOR reception has not been great out past 25 miles or so from a VOR. Spotty between 20 and 25 but rock solid below 20 miles out (3500 MSL). Since most VORs are supposed to be good for about 40 miles out and I live in the flat lands of Florida this is a bit disconcerting. The radio display quit working around 200 hours and Garmin fixed it, only to have it crap out again about 6 months later (Garmin fixed it free the second time). Later I did find that the coax connector to my bent whip (com) antenna was not crimped well and replaced it, seemed to cure the pitch trim interference but transmission still scratchy. VOR reception about the same, I inspected both ends of the coax and connectors but can't see anything obvious. I assume if the COAX or connectors were shorted I wouldn't get any reception on the Nav at all. I did use RG-58 and it's a long run from the instrument panel down the firewall and the length of the fuselage to the VOR antenna so maybe there is a bit too much attenuation there to get a full 40 mile reception range. I'm going to rework the radio stack to put in a new ADS-B out transponder and I think I'll replace the RG-58 with RG-400 to see if that helps. My GX-65 GPS/COM radio works fine and it also uses RG-58 to the bent whip and has an Icom splitter box in the line (for plugging a handheld into the bent whip when an electrical or complete COM radio failure occurs). So...I use the SL-30 for AWOS/ATIS reception and ground control and the GX-65 for air to air/ground. Given what the SL-30 cost it's a little disappointing but the avionic shop (Gulf Coast avionics in Lakeland FL has a test fixture for UPS AT gear) plugged it into their test fixture and said that there is nothing wrong with the radio so all I can think is that the wiring may be the issue. Have not tried installing an SWR meter in the line, might give a better clue but the bent whip has no way to adjust SWR so I don't know how I would fix that if it was a problem (the GX-65 uses the same brand of bent whip for COM so I don't know why the SL-30 would have a problem). Just some data points from my experience, let me know if you find out anything on your setup. Regards Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Tarpon Springs, FL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ From: "Andy Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Debug plan for flaky NavCom operation? I have recently purchased an RV with an SL-30 as the #2 radio. Operation of this radio is very inconsistent. Typically on the ground on battery power I get good reception and transmission on local frequencies. Sometime after engine start, I pick up a *lot* of background static on some, but not all, frequencies. At least on the ground, I can still talk and receive on these frequencies, overcoming the static. But in the air, this radio is very flaky, both com and nav. Sometimes it seems to work OK, but sometimes I can't receive the local ATIS from 10 miles away when it is clear on the #1 radio. The static sometimes is there and sometimes not. Sometimes the VOR reception is good and correct, and sometimes it loses lock or report an obviously wrong radial. (I haven't tried the ILS yet.) My first thought was that there must be a bad ground somewhere, but before going in with the flashlight and meter (which is not a trivial process, of course), and before considering pulling the radio and having it tested (Garmin's flat repair prices are $$$.), I thought I would try to get a debug plan from the group here. Basically, I need a sequence of things to check in order, hopefully going from simple to more difficult, which would lead to (a) resolution of the problem or (b) a decision to send the radio for check/repair. Anyone have such a plan?? Thanks, Andy Elliott -------------------------- Andy Elliott, RV-8, N303RV CL: 480-695-9568 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed
splitter
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2017
Components for the video mux arrived today. The DB-25 backshell has four small plastic bosses inside each half to locate the included cable clamp; these are easily removed with a small flush cutter or X-Acto blade. I made a CAD template for the PCB to fit this backshell and the DB-25 connector, then printed it at 100% and cut it out to verify fitment. Pads for the connector's solder cups align well and the PCB fills the shell nicely. Drawing is attached. My PCB layout for the mux will need a little finessing to fit this board outline, which I'll do in the next couple of days. I expect to have boards ordered by Fri, then I'll assemble one and send it to Alec for firmware testing. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476370#476370 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/norcomp_956_025_010r031_191.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/db_25_pcb_blank_106.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed
splitter
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 13, 2017
Very cool to see all this come together! Thanks again Eric, Alec and Bob. Cheers, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476371#476371 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: stacking ring terminals or ?
At 12:51 PM 12/12/2017, you wrote: > >I am not an expert on capacitors, so maybe someone more >knowledgeable will chime in. I do not think replacing the 22,000 >microfarad capacitor with a 33000 will affect the Ducati regulator. You're probably correct. Need to go to Wichita today so I won't be able to offer constellation of simple-ideas behind how the capacitor works today . . . but generally speaking . . . SOME capacitance may be helpful and as a performance matter you probably can't have too much. I other words, a range of 10KuF to 47KuF would to produce observable effects. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Date: Dec 15, 2017
Subject: Test
Test Enviado do meu iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2017
Hi All, I have yet another issue I was hoping the gurus here on the list could help me figure out. I have an Electroair electronic ignition system that has a wire coming out of the unit's controller for a spark advance meter. Electroair (nor their customers apparently) hasn't used this wire or a meter in ages, so it's a rather dormant feature, although it does still put out an active (albeit optional) signal to show the set spark advance BTDC. I would like to attach this Electroair spark advance wire to an Auxiliary port on my GRT EIS4000 engine management system to then show the spark advance on my EFIS. However, the issue I'm running into is the spark advance signal output, the voltage range of which may prove too low for the GRT EIS to read reliably (as per GRT). The Electroair spark advance signal voltage output is from 0.00V to 0.40V, and is scaled 0.01 volt per every degree of advance. So just to be clear: 0.01V = 1 degree of advance 0.10V = 10 degrees of advance 0.28V = 28 degrees of advance What I would like to achieve is to amplify the spark advance signal voltage x 10 so that the GRT could see every 0.1V as 1 degree of spark advance, so again for clarity: 0.1V = 1 degree of advance 1.0V = 10 degrees of advance 2.8V = 28 degrees of advance Since the original spark advance signal is on a range of 0 to 0.4 volts, if I amped it up x10 then my max output would be 4.0 volts, still well under the 5.0V max input of the GRT EIS auxiliary ports. Regards, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476445#476445 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Noel Wade <noel.wade(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2017
Subject: Radiated Electronic Noise (not a grounding issue?)
Hello All, I'm hoping for suggestions from the experts here, as I'm stumped at how I might alleviate a problem with what I think is *radiated* EMI that's making its way from my EFIS into my VHF radio system (i.e. over the air, received by the comm antenna). And so far the manufacturer has been unresponsive to my support requests. :-( Here is a video demonstration of the issue, using a handheld radio (to try to show that this is not a ground-loop or other issue with the wiring of the panel-mounted VHF comm system): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg8bZ5wZ3bk After recording that video, I tried placing a piece of sheet-metal in front of the antenna (to block line-of-sight from the EFIS) with the sheet-metal grounded to the airframe. I can clearly demonstrate a change in the amount of received signal when the sheet-metal is removed from blocking LOS, by observing the reception-strength bargraph built into the VHF radio. This to me reinforces the idea that this is some kind of electromagnetic field/radiation that's the problem, not induction along a wiring path. But I'll admit that I'm a novice when it comes to EE stuff; I usually work in the digital realm with computers and networking, far from oscilloscopes and the analog world of volts and amps. Any thoughts or recommendations for how to proceed, how this issue might be confirmed, and/or how it could be alleviated, short of replacing the system**? Thanks so much for your knowledge and ideas! --Noel Wade noel.wade(at)gmail.com Seattle, WA ----- Background info, for the interested: ----- I _can_ run the squelch up very high in order to not have the panel-mounted VHF radio think its receiving a valid signal. But that severely limits my reception range overall. I've done testing with various items in the aircraft powered off (and with fuses removed), and the problem only occurs when my EFIS is powered on - as evidenced in the video. And again, this issue occurs with handhelds as well as the panel-mounted radio. To be clear: This is *not* an issue with noise or feedback in the headset. This is the radio actually thinking its receiving a signal and breaking squelch. The panel-mounted radio was previously used in my sailplane and worked just fine (at a much lower squelch value). And it works just fine at a low squelch value with other aircraft items powered on and the EFIS "cold". Other aircraft on the ground at my local airport report my radio transmissions as loud-and-clear, so outbound transmissions seem unaffected. For power and ground, all equipment in my panel is wired in using twisted twisted pairs: Each supply line comes from a fuse block, and each ground wire goes to a "forest of tabs" on the stainless steel firewall with a large-gauge wire connected back to the battery. Signal wires are almost exclusively run through wiring harnesses provided by the manufacturer, using shielded wires and a twisted-pair CAN bus wire or RS-232 signals (again on a shielded wiring pair). The comm antenna is connected to the radio using RG-400 coax and the coax is run at least 6" away from the (shielded) headset and microphone wires. Photos of my aircraft build (including some shots of the wiring) are here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskrtEG22 ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2017
Wade If you google "non inverting op amp" you should find a simple voltage multiplier circuit that you can power with the EIS 5 volt sensor supply. Pretty much any 8 pin op amp and a couple of resistors to set the gain at 10 will do this nicely. Ken On 16/12/2017 1:11 PM, Airdog77 wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have yet another issue I was hoping the gurus here on the list could help me figure out. > > I have an Electroair electronic ignition system that has a wire coming out of the unit's controller for a spark advance meter. Electroair (nor their customers apparently) hasn't used this wire or a meter in ages, so it's a rather dormant feature, although it does still put out an active (albeit optional) signal to show the set spark advance BTDC. > > I would like to attach this Electroair spark advance wire to an Auxiliary port on my GRT EIS4000 engine management system to then show the spark advance on my EFIS. However, the issue I'm running into is the spark advance signal output, the voltage range of which may prove too low for the GRT EIS to read reliably (as per GRT). > > The Electroair spark advance signal voltage output is from 0.00V to 0.40V, and is scaled 0.01 volt per every degree of advance. So just to be clear: > 0.01V = 1 degree of advance > 0.10V = 10 degrees of advance > 0.28V = 28 degrees of advance > > What I would like to achieve is to amplify the spark advance signal voltage x 10 so that the GRT could see every 0.1V as 1 degree of spark advance, so again for clarity: > 0.1V = 1 degree of advance > 1.0V = 10 degrees of advance > 2.8V = 28 degrees of advance > > Since the original spark advance signal is on a range of 0 to 0.4 volts, if I amped it up x10 then my max output would be 4.0 volts, still well under the 5.0V max input of the GRT EIS auxiliary ports. > > Regards, > Wade > > -------- > Airdog > Wade Parton > Building Long-EZ N916WP > www.longezpush.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476445#476445 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2017
Ken, Awesome. I'll check it out. Thanks! Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476455#476455 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 17, 2017
Ken, I think I've got the function of the non inverting op amp down.... pretty cool. Just a couple of questions before I pull the trigger on purchasing any. I noticed on Mouser that the input voltage is usually 1.8, 2.7 or 4.5 volts. Am I reading this right that those are +/- input volt, so say -1.8V to +1.8V. May seem like a silly question, but just asking since I need 0V or 0.01 volts covered as a possible input voltage. Also, I think I've got it right that the R1 and R2 resistors values are set simply as a ratio to provide the correct gain. Are the resistor values completely arbitrary, or any standards that I should be following? Right now I have R2 = 500 Ohm, R1 = 4.5K Ohm. Again, thanks for the info on these op amps. Neat stuff. Cheers, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476462#476462 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radiated Electronic Noise (not a grounding issue?)
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 17, 2017
If MGL were made aware of your video, they might be more responsive to your support request. That video must be hurting their sales. It looks like the EFIS needs to be repaired. Another experiment would be to wrap tinfoil around the top and front and bottom edge of the instrument panel wide enough to cover the EFIS. That experiment would reinforce your theory that RF noise is being emitted from the EFIS screen. Have you tried dimming the EFIS display to see if that has an affect? -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476464#476464 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 17, 2017
Wade A very good question. If no one else replies I will do a little research this evening. We want a single supply op amp that will run on 5 volts and is rail to rail output (ie down to zero volts output). Typically these are cmos type technology that run on a wide range of voltage and consume negligible power in an application like this. I will have to refresh my memory but I'm pretty sure down to .01 volts is doable on a single supply op amp these days. Years ago an op amp would be run on a dual +5 volt and -5 volt supply to do this. Someone might offer to drop one in the mail and I will look around here. I'd probably suggest initially trying more like 1K ohms for the input resistor. Might need a bit higher if too low a value drags down the input signal. A tiny adjustable resistor can always be used to tweak the gain to precisely what you need. Ken On 17/12/2017 10:28 AM, Airdog77 wrote: > > Ken, > > I think I've got the function of the non inverting op amp down.... pretty cool. Just a couple of questions before I pull the trigger on purchasing any. > > I noticed on Mouser that the input voltage is usually 1.8, 2.7 or 4.5 volts. Am I reading this right that those are +/- input volt, so say -1.8V to +1.8V. May seem like a silly question, but just asking since I need 0V or 0.01 volts covered as a possible input voltage. > > Also, I think I've got it right that the R1 and R2 resistors values are set simply as a ratio to provide the correct gain. Are the resistor values completely arbitrary, or any standards that I should be following? Right now I have R2 = 500 Ohm, R1 = 4.5K Ohm. > > Again, thanks for the info on these op amps. Neat stuff. > > Cheers, > Wade > > -------- > Airdog > Wade Parton > Building Long-EZ N916WP > www.longezpush.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476462#476462 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 17, 2017
I'd consider running the op amp on 12V instead of 5V. Since you want the max output to be so close to 5V to drive the instrument input on the efis, using 12V should help keep the output linear. On 12/17/2017 10:33 AM, C&K wrote: > > Wade > A very good question. > If no one else replies I will do a little research this evening. > We want a single supply op amp that will run on 5 volts and is rail to > rail output (ie down to zero volts output). > Typically these are cmos type technology that run on a wide range of > voltage and consume negligible power in an application like this. > I will have to refresh my memory but I'm pretty sure down to .01 volts > is doable on a single supply op amp these days. Years ago an op amp > would be run on a dual +5 volt and -5 volt supply to do this. Someone > might offer to drop one in the mail and I will look around here. I'd > probably suggest initially trying more like 1K ohms for the input > resistor. Might need a bit higher if too low a value drags down the > input signal. A tiny adjustable resistor can always be used to tweak > the gain to precisely what you need. > Ken > > > On 17/12/2017 10:28 AM, Airdog77 wrote: >> >> Ken, >> >> I think I've got the function of the non inverting op amp down.... >> pretty cool. Just a couple of questions before I pull the trigger on >> purchasing any. >> >> I noticed on Mouser that the input voltage is usually 1.8, 2.7 or 4.5 >> volts. Am I reading this right that those are +/- input volt, so say >> -1.8V to +1.8V. May seem like a silly question, but just asking >> since I need 0V or 0.01 volts covered as a possible input voltage. >> >> Also, I think I've got it right that the R1 and R2 resistors values >> are set simply as a ratio to provide the correct gain. Are the >> resistor values completely arbitrary, or any standards that I should >> be following? Right now I have R2 = 500 Ohm, R1 = 4.5K Ohm. >> >> Again, thanks for the info on these op amps. Neat stuff. >> >> Cheers, >> Wade >> >> -------- >> Airdog >> Wade Parton >> Building Long-EZ N916WP >> www.longezpush.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
> >The Electroair spark advance signal voltage output is from 0.00V to >0.40V, and is scaled 0.01 volt per every degree of advance. So just >to be clear: >0.01V = 1 degree of advance >0.10V = 10 degrees of advance >0.28V = 28 degrees of advance > >What I would like to achieve is to amplify the spark advance signal >voltage x 10 so that the GRT could see every 0.1V as 1 degree of >spark advance, so again for clarity: >0.1V = 1 degree of advance >1.0V = 10 degrees of advance >2.8V = 28 degrees of advance There are hundreds of combinations of jelly-bean parts that would suffice to your design goals. My personal favorite of the moment is the Analog Devices AD626 instrumentation grade amplifier. It works well at 5.0 volt supply, has a huge common mode input range, features factory trimmed preset gains of 10 or 100. Has an output range that easily brackets your requirement (0.03 to 4.7v). The beauty of this critter is that no external resistors or calibration adjustments are needed to address your task. https://goo.gl/Q3SYvj They're a little pricey compared to some other candidates https://goo.gl/fxuF4Z but I think the convenience of minimizing external components combined with the simplicity of calibration more than offsets the difference in cost. I used this chip in dozens of data acquisition tasks at Beech . . . it's still a work-horse in my toolbox of get-er-done parts. Emacs! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2017
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2017 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, The 2017 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors (LOC). It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running! You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 And finally, I'm proud to present The 2017 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 17, 2017
Bob, Wow.... thanks! Really takes the guesswork out of configuring the amp for a gain of 10. I'm thinking it most likely doesn't matter, but just to be certain: the Electroair spark advance signal is only sent out over one wire, so I would not have any input from the Electroair unit to Pin 1 on the AD626. I assume this is ok for this configuration? Thanks again! Regards, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476550#476550 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal
boost At 06:27 PM 12/17/2017, you wrote: > >Bob, > >Wow.... thanks! Really takes the guesswork out of configuring the >amp for a gain of 10. > >I'm thinking it most likely doesn't matter, but just to be certain: >the Electroair spark advance signal is only sent out over one wire, >so I would not have any input from the Electroair unit to Pin 1 on >the AD626. I assume this is ok for this configuration? Hmmmmm . . . this offers potential for a different kind of ground loop effect . . . Any difference in voltage between 'ground' on the ignition electronics and the EFIS electronics will manifest as an offset in the system's calibration. Just for grins, let's build this 'adapter' with ground wires that go both directions . . . just hook up the ignition system end and leave the EFIS end open. This configuration will offset the amplified signal with a 1x influence . . . hooking up only the EFIS end would put a 10x gain on the displayed value. I'm thinking the first option offers a high probability for satisfactory performance. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2017
Bob, Sorry, but I'm having a hard time implementing this in my novice brain: > just hook up the ignition system end at Pin 8 > and leave the EFIS end open. Is this the ground connection that crosses between to the 5V lead (pin 6) via the 0.1 capacitor and the signal ground lead? Any possible way you could diagram this out? Thanks! Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476563#476563 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andy Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: FMEA at ATL?
Date: Dec 18, 2017
Looks like the infrastructure designers at KATL forgot about FMEA and the concept of single-point failure avoidance. :( Guess they never had an airplane with a dual magneto! -------------------------- Andy Elliott, RV-8, N303RV CL: 480-695-9568 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2017
Ken, I would think these things (at least a version out there) would go down to 0.0 volts... Roger on using a higher resistor value. Charlie, I think you're saying simply supply 12V power to the op amp (one rated for 12V) at the V+ and V- pins? Spark advance input is obviously unchanged (at +In). I guess the affect on the output being more linear is internal to the op amp? Regards, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476566#476566 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2017
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Airdog77 wrote: > > Ken, I would think these things (at least a version out there) would go > down to 0.0 volts... Roger on using a higher resistor value. > > Charlie, I think you're saying simply supply 12V power to the op amp (one > rated for 12V) at the V+ and V- pins? Spark advance input is obviously > unchanged (at +In). I guess the affect on the output being more linear is > internal to the op amp? > > Regards, > Wade > > -------- > Airdog > Wade Parton > Building Long-EZ N916WP > www.longezpush.com > > My comment was based on using one of the ancient op amp circuits, most of > which get a bit nonlinear when output approaches the supply rail voltage. > The much more modern instrumentation amp that Bob referenced doesn't seem > to have that issue, making it simple to power it from the EFIS's 5V source. On Bob's comment about ground references: I'm not up to speed on that device, but I'd expect a differential amplifier to look at the voltage difference between the two source voltages, and in this case, the <-> input would be the ground reference at the device you're measuring. Since it's a differential amplifier, I'd expect it to be immune to ground reference issues, but hey; you don't know until you test. If I were setting it up, I'd start by hooking the <+> input to the advance output, the <-> input to the ground terminal *on the ignition module*. I'd supply power from the EFIS & ground from the same spot the EFIS gets its ground. I wasn't sure what Bob meant in his previous post, either, but he may have been saying to supply ground from the ignition module; the same point that supplies 'reference' to the <-> input. (By 'ground', I'm talking about the power supply ground terminal; not the <-> input to the amp.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2017
Charlie, Yes. Tracking. When I checked the Electroair manual, interestingly enough the only ground available on that unit is the ignition module ground (vs the controller unit).... since I was scrounging around to find a ground to use for -In on the AD626 that Bob recommended. Cheers, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476571#476571 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2017
Yes, I believe Bob meant to ground both signal and supply at the ignition module. The op-amp won't know if there's a few mV ground potential difference on the supply side; just the signal side. So, grounding the supply at the ignition module instead of at the EIS won't affect operation, but it *will* give the op-amp a good reference for the advance signal. Wade, which model of the GRT EIS are you using? If it's the 4000, there appears to be a "4.8V Exitation Output" on pin 25. The AD626 will draw a small fraction of a milliamp, so it should be safe to use this pin to power the circuit. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476573#476573 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2017
Wade As you surmise, there has to be two wires to to get the signal to your amplifier and on to the EIS. So pin 1 of the amplifier in Bob's diagram has to be grounded. The complication is that you can ground that pin to numerous places in the aircraft and each of those places will typically give a slightly different reading when dealing with millivolt sensor signals. This may or may not be significant in your application. Grounding pin 1 to the ignition unit which is the source of your signal will likely be the best choice and we recommend that you try that. If that is difficult in your particular aircraft, or it proves unsatisfactory, the next choice would probably be to try grounding pin 1 at the EIS ground. The issue with that is that any voltage difference between the ground at the ignition unit and the ground at the EIS will be amplified by a factor of 10 by the AD626. That may or may not be significant depending on exactly what currents are flowing and what the resistance is between the two different physical ground points. That difference can change when you turn on or off various electrical circuits in the aircraft which might introduce measurement errors. If this makes sense to you, congratulations, you now understand the concept of a ground loop and you can appreciate why bringing most of our aircraft grounds to the common "forest of tabs" makes sense. Even grounding both the EIS and the ignition unit at a forest of tabs might not totally eliminate these ground errors though as there may well be millivolt differences in the wire between the forest of tabs and the ignition unit. All wires and connections have some resistance and any current through a resistance results in some voltage drop however small. We are trying to avoid adding such a voltage drop to your millivolt sensor signal. So again running a ground wire from pin 1 of your amplifier all the way to a connection at the ignition unit can make sense. I am not familiar with your ignition but if your ignition coils are grounded through a remote ignitor on the engine side of the firewall, it is more likely that it will not matter where you ground the amplifier pin. Coil grounds pulse several amps and you don't want that running through the same wire as your sensor ground. Ken On 18/12/2017 12:36 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Airdog77 > wrote: > > > > > Ken, I would think these things (at least a version out there) > would go down to 0.0 volts... Roger on using a higher resistor value. > > Charlie, I think you're saying simply supply 12V power to the op > amp (one rated for 12V) at the V+ and V- pins? Spark advance input > is obviously unchanged (at +In). I guess the affect on the output > being more linear is internal to the op amp? > > Regards, > Wade > > -------- > Airdog > Wade Parton > Building Long-EZ N916WP > www.longezpush.com <http://www.longezpush.com> > > My comment was based on using one of the ancient op amp circuits, > most of which get a bit nonlinear when output approaches the > supply rail voltage. The much more modern instrumentation amp that > Bob referenced doesn't seem to have that issue, making it simple > to power it from the EFIS's 5V source. > > > On Bob's comment about ground references: I'm not up to speed on that > device, but I'd expect a differential amplifier to look at the voltage > difference between the two source voltages, and in this case, the <-> > input would be the ground reference at the device you're measuring. > Since it's a differential amplifier, I'd expect it to be immune to > ground reference issues, but hey; you don't know until you test. > > If I were setting it up, I'd start by hooking the <+> input to the > advance output, the <-> input to the ground terminal *on the ignition > module*. I'd supply power from the EFIS & ground from the same spot > the EFIS gets its ground. I wasn't sure what Bob meant in his previous > post, either, but he may have been saying to supply ground from the > ignition module; the same point that supplies 'reference' to the <-> > input. (By 'ground', I'm talking about the power supply ground > terminal; not the <-> input to the amp.) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: DIY captive stud terminal strips
A short time ago we had some discussions that included the mention of a technique for crafting captive stud terminal strips. Just ran across some pictures of an exemplar technique . . . https://goo.gl/cMQtA4 The base is crafted from some durable insulating material. The article illustrated is built on a piece of Delrin. Alternative materials include 6/6 nylon, phenolic, PVC and some thermoplastics. Counter-sink the studs about 0.03 under-flush and back-fill with epoxy . . . JB Weld is good. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIY captive stud terminal strips
From: rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Dec 18, 2017
Many JB Weld products are steel reinforced. Is it possible that the JB Weld used to secure the bolts might be conduction path if the terminal strip is mounted on a conductive surface? Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968) On 12/18/2017 02:18 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > A short time ago we had some discussions that > included the mention of a technique for crafting > captive stud terminal strips. > > Just ran across some pictures of an exemplar > technique . . . > > https://goo.gl/cMQtA4 > > The base is crafted from some durable insulating > material. The article illustrated is built on a > piece of Delrin. Alternative materials include > 6/6 nylon, phenolic, PVC and some thermoplastics. > > Counter-sink the studs about 0.03 under-flush > and back-fill with epoxy . . . JB Weld is good. > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIY captive stud terminal strips
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2017
According to JB Weld website https://www.jbweld.com/pages/faqs Will J-B Weld conduct electricity? No. J-B Weld is not considered to be a conductor. It is an insulator. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476591#476591 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
CORRECTION > >The Electroair spark advance signal voltage output is from 0.00V to >0.40V, and is scaled 0.01 volt per every degree of advance. So just >to be clear: >0.01V = 1 degree of advance >0.10V = 10 degrees of advance >0.28V = 28 degrees of advance > >What I would like to achieve is to amplify the spark advance signal >voltage x 10 so that the GRT could see every 0.1V as 1 degree of >spark advance, so again for clarity: >0.1V = 1 degree of advance >1.0V = 10 degrees of advance >2.8V = 28 degrees of advance There are hundreds of combinations of jelly-bean parts that would suffice to your design goals. My personal favorite of the moment is the Analog Devices AD626 instrumentation grade amplifier. It works well at 5.0 volt supply, has a huge common mode input range, features factory trimmed preset gains of 10 or 100. Has an output range that easily brackets your requirement (0.03 to 4.7v). The beauty of this critter is that no external resistors or calibration adjustments are needed to address your task. https://goo.gl/Q3SYvj They're a little pricey compared to some other candidates https://goo.gl/fxuF4Z but I think the convenience of minimizing external components combined with the simplicity of calibration more than offsets the difference in cost. I used this chip in dozens of data acquisition tasks at Beech . . . it's still a work-horse in my toolbox of get-er-done parts. CORRECTION . . . Must have suffered a transient short between the headphones. Blew of the AD626 feature that makes it 'magic'. The inputs have a huge common mode signal rejection range. This means that it amplifies only what is impressed between pins 1 and 8 while ignoring the difference in voltage between 1,8 and 2,3. Hence, you tie pin 1 as close as practical to ignition system ground, pin 8 to the advance signal output. Amplifier ground pins 2,3 tie to EFIS signal ground. This insures that the output between 5/2,3 is 10x that between 8/1 irrespective of any difference in 'ground' of the ignition system vs. the EFIS system. Emacs! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: DIY captive stud terminal strips
At 04:14 PM 12/18/2017, you wrote: > >Many JB Weld products are steel reinforced. > >Is it possible that the JB Weld used to secure the bolts might be >conduction path if the terminal strip is mounted on a conductive surface? > >Raymond Julian >Kettle River, MN Not sure how much the epoxy's strength can be attributed to particulate steel . . . but the data sheet . . . https://goo.gl/mHXUZX suggests that any electrical contact between such particles is nil to zero volume resistivity of JB weld is 3.16 x 10^15 while that of copper is about 1.7 x 10^-8 if I recall correctly. This means that JB Weld is pretty good electrical insulator! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2017
Hi Ken, I talked with Electroair earlier today. They are taking a look at the AD6262 and the best place to tie in the ground. It doesn't show up in the manual and honestly I forgot about it, but on the experimental version there is a ground wire coming off the Electroair controller unit. Their initial thought is that would be the best place to tie in the A626 ground input. I'll await Electoair's evaluation and press on from there. Thanks a ton for all your advice. Regards, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476595#476595 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal
boost At 10:10 PM 12/18/2017, you wrote: > >Hi Ken, > >I talked with Electroair earlier today. They are taking a look at >the AD6262 and the best place to tie in the ground. It doesn't show >up in the manual and honestly I forgot about it, but on the >experimental version there is a ground wire coming off the >Electroair controller unit. Their initial thought is that would be >the best place to tie in the A626 ground input. Agreed . . . to a point. The (-) connection of the AD626 to ElectroAir is a (-)SIGNAL lead paired with the (+)SIGNAL lead and has nothing in common with the POWER AND SIGNAL GROUNDS that run from the AD626 to the EFIS . . . per my corrected diagram posted last night. If you're in conversation with anyone at ElectroAir, it might be useful to forward this message along with last night's posting to them. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIY captive stud terminal strips
From: "andymeyer" <ameyer@mil-amax.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2017
I am looking at a similar application, but was leaning towards the AD623 instead. IT appears that in the 623, I can reference my output on pin 7 to a ground of my choosing on pin 8 - a GND that I would tie to my EFIS. A ground that may be different than that of my ignition system. The 626 seems to require only one ground on Pin 2. The 626 is nice that I can filter with one cap, but I think (if I understand this correctly) the different grounds would be of more benefit and avoid a ground loop in my instrumentation. I can't find the minimum output voltage (not a datasheet reading guru yet) on the 623 however. My minimum input voltage will go down to about input ground (+/- .01V). With a 10x multiplier, how low can the 623 output? My Vs will be 3.3V and Vs- will be the same ground as the input signal. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476612#476612 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "andymeyer" <ameyer@mil-amax.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2017
I am looking at a similar application, but was leaning towards the AD623 instead. IT appears that in the 623, I can reference my output on pin 7 to a ground of my choosing on pin 8 - a GND that I would tie to my EFIS. A ground that may be different than that of my ignition system. The 626 seems to require only one ground on Pin 2. The 626 is nice that I can filter with one cap, but I think (if I understand this correctly) the different grounds would be of more benefit and avoid a ground loop in my instrumentation. I can't find the minimum output voltage (not a datasheet reading guru yet) on the 623 however. My minimum input voltage will go down to about input ground (+/- .01V). With a 10x multiplier, how low can the 623 output? My Vs will be 3.3V and Vs- will be the same ground as the input signal. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476613#476613 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: VHF antenna in the tail
From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
Hi all, My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin to house a built-in VHF antenna. On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number of foam ribs will be added. Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? Thanks in advance for your inputs, advices, opinions, etc. -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2017
There doesnt seem to be an explicit specification for minimum output voltage in the AD623 datasheet, but... See page 3. In the section on single supply gain error in Table 2, under test conditions, it shows a minimum output of 50mV for all gain settings. The AD626 datasheet does explicitly state a minimum output of 30mV (under single supply output on page 2). Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476616#476616 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Noel Wade <noel.wade(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2017
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
Hi, Putting the antenna in the tail is a common technique used in modern Sailplanes (which feature mostly carbon-fiber construction) - either the vertical fin or the rudder is glass. Carbon Fiber won't work at all - it blocks radio waves in the range that we're interested in. Can't speak to exactly how you would best construct it, but you want to look into a Dipole antenna - if you do some Google searching on that you'll find some info (and Aircraft Spruce also sells one for this kind of purpose, for a little over $100). They can be made relatively flat and then bonded (with fiberglass and resin) to the inside of the skin of the tail (again, assuming the skin is fiberglass and thus transparent to VHF radio waves). Good luck, --Noel On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 5:41 PM, GTH wrote: > Hi all, > > My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. > The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin to > house a built-in VHF antenna. > > On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can be > seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number of foam > ribs will be added. > > Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to > construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? > Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or will > carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? > > Thanks in advance for your inputs, advices, opinions, etc. > > -- > Best regards, > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2017
On 12/19/2017 7:41 PM, GTH wrote: > Hi all, > > My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. > The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin to > house a built-in VHF antenna. > > On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can > be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number > of foam ribs will be added. > > Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to > construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? > Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or > will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? > > Thanks in advance for your inputs, advices, opinions, etc. > You can make a quarter wave antenna using copper foil (think back to the old glass-break stripes on windows before solid state glass break detectors), but physical strength is virtually zero, and would require somewhat elaborate measures to protect it from breakage. It also would need a ground plane, and I wouldn't be confident that a carbon fuselage could provide it. Same technique is possible making a dipole, but would require close to 4 feet of height. How about this? http://www.chiefaircraft.com/sa-006.html A carbon rudder would no doubt affect it, but by how much; who can tell? The effect might be only measurable on an antenna range with test gear. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2017
From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
Gilles, A dipole antenna is the perfect antenna for VHF comm on a composite airplan e.=C2- You just cut the VHF antenna to the mid-frequency range.=C2- It is a half-wave length long, so cut it to the mid-range wavelength size. Con struct the antenna with two copper tape pieces. both totaling the mid-range wavelength.=C2- The RF cable should come in at the middle of the two pie ces.=C2- Center conductor to one tape piece, and shield to the other.=C2 - I would put the copper tapes at the fin leading edge and have the cable go toward the back and down.=C2- You could do it vice-versa, but the rud der hinges may interfere with the RF environment.=C2- Try to get the thic kest copper tape as thicker makes the antenna more broadband.=C2- You can test the antenna before glassing it in with a SWR meter attached to the ra dio side of the cable.=C2- Find an amateur radio person somewhere.=C2- Most of them have SWR meters. I would not recommend a carbon fiber rudder, as it will introduce a conduct ing surface that will interfere with the antenna.=C2-Henador Titzoff From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 9:05 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: VHF antenna in the tail Hi all, My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin to house a built-in VHF antenna. On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number of foam ribs will be added. Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? Thanks in advance for your inputs, advices, opinions, etc. -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2017
From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
Gilles, A dipole antenna is the perfect antenna for VHF comm on a composite airplan e.=C2- You just cut the VHF antenna to the mid-frequency range.=C2- It is a half-wave length long, so cut it to the mid-range wavelength size. Con struct the antenna with two copper tape pieces. both totaling the mid-range wavelength.=C2- The RF cable should come in at the middle of the two pie ces.=C2- Center conductor to one tape piece, and shield to the other.=C2 - I would put the copper tapes at the fin leading edge and have the cable go toward the back and down.=C2- You could do it vice-versa, but the rud der hinges may interfere with the RF environment.=C2- Try to get the thic kest copper tape as thicker makes the antenna more broadband.=C2- You can test the antenna before glassing it in with a SWR meter attached to the ra dio side of the cable.=C2- Find an amateur radio person somewhere.=C2- Most of them have SWR meters. I would not recommend a carbon fiber rudder, as it will introduce a conduct ing surface that will interfere with the antenna.=C2-Henador Titzoff From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 9:05 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: VHF antenna in the tail Hi all, My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin to house a built-in VHF antenna. On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number of foam ribs will be added. Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? Thanks in advance for your inputs, advices, opinions, etc. -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal
boost At 02:18 PM 12/19/2017, you wrote: > >I am looking at a similar application, but was leaning towards the >AD623 instead. IT appears that in the 623, I can reference my output >on pin 7 to a ground of my choosing on pin 8 - a GND that I would >tie to my EFIS. A ground that may be different than that of my >ignition system. > >The 626 seems to require only one ground on Pin 2. The 626 is nice >that I can filter with one cap, but I think (if I understand this >correctly) the different grounds would be of more benefit and avoid >a ground loop in my instrumentation. > >I can't find the minimum output voltage (not a datasheet reading >guru yet) on the 623 however. My minimum input voltage will go down >to about input ground (+/- .01V). With a 10x multiplier, how low >can the 623 output? My Vs will be 3.3V and Vs- will be the same >ground as the input signal. The 623 is an instrumentation amplifier with rail-to-rail output capability . . . but much smaller common mode range. However, it is suited to your task if you don't mind adding a few more components around it. I'm up to my fanny in alligators tonight and in the morning, but I can calculate and sketch an option which I'll post tomorrow sometime. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
Gilles, I did use a ADVANCED AIRCRAFT ELECTRONICS, INC. antenna in my Glastar below the baggage floor as a NAV antenna, as I removed the NAV (8.33 upgrade) it would be available, I'm based in Switzerland. it is a 5T model and I was very satisfied on its usage, length is about 110 cm. See: http://www.advancedaircraft.com/#models http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/vhf5dia.jpg Cheers Werner On 20.12.2017 02:41, GTH wrote: > Hi all, > > My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. > The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin to > house a built-in VHF antenna. > > On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can be > seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number of > foam ribs will be added. > > Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to > construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "andymeyer" <ameyer@mil-amax.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
I'm feeding data to an Arduino SAMD21 from a Lightspeed Plasma 3 ignition... The SAMD21 will be in back by the engine (Long EZ) with a KTA259 EGT/CHT thermocouple sensor - the Lightspeed is about 5 feet of cable away. I was going to put a pair of 623's filtered to 1Hz corner next to the Lightspeed (tucked in the connector if I can) for MP and Timing and simple resistor bridge to drop the tach digital signal from 10V to 3.3V. A few more signals will go into the rear module as well. I've got the UI working for up front and it will get the data from the back via RS485. Up front, I'm going to add in a few more signals to the display... Possibly talking to and listening to my GNS430. (Fuel data, groundspeed...) Eventually once things are working, I'm planning on a first attempt at building my own boards and 3D printing cases, etc... The KTA259 will be replaced with 8 MAX31855's at that time. Any thoughts or input would be GREATLY appreciated. Happy Flyin'! Andy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476624#476624 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
Make your own copper tape by flatting #12 AWG solid wire using a hammer and anvil. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476625#476625 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
/Le 20/12/2017 02:41, GTH a crit : / > / > On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can > be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number > of foam ribs will be added. > > Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to > construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? > Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or > will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? > / > Hi all, Thank you everyone who responded. The project is a small airplane with the fin about 800 mm high (~950 mm leading edge), so space seems a bit limited for a dipole antenna. Still looking into any solution. The idea is to design something mostly DIY for cost reasons, so this seems to rule out off-the-shelf antennas. Any ideas ? BTW, what is the influence of the radiating element width/diameter vs selectivity or else ? Any hard facts on the subject ? Thanks for any input, -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
At 07:41 PM 12/19/2017, you wrote: >Hi all, > >My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. >The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin >to house a built-in VHF antenna. > >On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can >be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number >of foam ribs will be added. > >Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to >construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? >Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or >will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? > >Thanks in advance for your inputs, advices, opinions, etc. What does the structure look like ahead of the tail group? Is there a space behind the seat(s) but ahead of the tail group that has some volume? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
On 12/20/2017 9:02 AM, user9253 wrote: > > Make your own copper tape by flatting #12 AWG solid wire using a hammer and anvil. > > -------- > Joe Gores > Or, just make it by snipping a 1/2" wide strip from a piece of aluminum flashing material (~10-15 thousandths" thick). Nothing magic about copper, for this application. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
On 12/20/2017 9:17 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 07:41 PM 12/19/2017, you wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. >> The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin to >> house a built-in VHF antenna. >> >> On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can >> be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number >> of foam ribs will be added. >> >> Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to >> construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? >> Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or >> will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? >> >> Thanks in advance for your inputs, advices, opinions, etc. > > What does the structure look like ahead of the > tail group? Is there a space behind the seat(s) > but ahead of the tail group that has some > volume? > > > Bob . . . > carbon fuselage --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
On 12/20/2017 7:50 AM, GTH wrote: > /Le 20/12/2017 02:41, GTH a crit: > / >> / >> On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can >> be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number >> of foam ribs will be added. >> >> Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to >> construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? >> Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or >> will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? >> / >> > Hi all, > > Thank you everyone who responded. > The project is a small airplane with the fin about 800 mm high (~950 > mm leading edge), so space seems a bit limited for a dipole antenna. > Still looking into any solution. > The idea is to design something mostly DIY for cost reasons, so this > seems to rule out off-the-shelf antennas. > Any ideas ? > > BTW, what is the influence of the radiating element width/diameter vs > selectivity or else ? > Any hard facts on the subject ? > > Thanks for any input, > > > -- > Best regards, > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr There have been several good articles in Kitplanes Magazine about the subject. Short answer: the skinnier the element; the more selective and 'peaky' the gain will be vs frequency. According to stuff I've seen, 1/2" width strip (thickness not too important) seems to be adequate to reduce selectivity. The model I linked earlier isn't cheap, but it would probably perform best. Having said that, once the plane is in the air almost anything will 'work' as long as it's got a clear shot at its target. Since you don't have the height to use a dipole, and there isn't a practical way to have a ground plane for a quarter-wave, have you considered just using an off the shelf 'rubber ducky' that's made for handheld comms? Probably be as cheap as making something, and is already tuned for working without a ground plane. Also rugged enough that you could make some plastic or fiberglass clips in the tail that it could just snap into, making any future maintenance simpler. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
Since there is not enough room for a dipole, it seems that a quarter wave is required. Ideally there should be 4 ground plane radials using copper tape. If there is no access to the inside of the tail, then the ground plane radials could be glued to the exterior of the tail. If exterior radials are not desired due to cosmetic concerns, then only one radial could be placed horizontally in the vertical fin-tail cone junction. Not ideal, but might give adequate performance. Here is a picture of another homemade option. It is very inexpensive using only coax. It should work good enough. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476631#476631 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/antenna_207.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Pengilly" <Peter(at)sportingaero.com>
Subject: VHF antenna in the tail
Date: Dec 20, 2017
http://becker-avionics.info/Products/1a005-2/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GTH Sent: 20 December 2017 01:41 Subject: AeroElectric-List: VHF antenna in the tail Hi all, My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin to house a built-in VHF antenna. On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number of foam ribs will be added. Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? Thanks in advance for your inputs, advices, opinions, etc. -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Pengilly" <Peter(at)sportingaero.com>
Subject: VHF antenna in the tail
Date: Dec 20, 2017
Most modern gliders have a glass fin to house the radio, transponder and Flarm antennas and some have a carbon rudder, the blanking from the rudder is usually not a factor. You will obtain much better performance buy buying an antenna as you will find it difficult to get a good ground plane. Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GTH Sent: 20 December 2017 01:41 Subject: AeroElectric-List: VHF antenna in the tail Hi all, My buddy is starting a new ultralight project. The airframe is carbon fiber (resin infusion) with glass fiber fin to house a built-in VHF antenna. On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number of foam ribs will be added. Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? Thanks in advance for your inputs, advices, opinions, etc. -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2017
Bob, > If you're in conversation with anyone at ElectroAir, > it might be useful to forward this message along > with last night's posting to them. I have been in conversation with Electroair. After relaying the info in these threads on op amps to them, and specifically the AD626, after a day or so of consideration from them the main feedback I got back was A) the ground from the controller unit would be the best bet in their opinion, and B) they wanted me to let them know what comes out of all my efforts on this. I think I'll press forward with the AD626 with +In (signal) and -In (signal) coming from the Electroair. Regards, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476645#476645 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Neal George <neal.george(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 21, 2017
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
Maybe consider a folded dipole? Ill have to consult the ARRL Antenna Book... Neal George Sent from my iPhone On Dec 20, 2017, at 11:07 AM, user9253 wrote: Since there is not enough room for a dipole, ... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Dec 21, 2017
As I recall, the characteristic impedance of a folded dipole is 200 ohms, so you would probably need a 1:4 balun to feed it from 50 ohm coax? Bill On 21/12/2017 5:06 PM, Neal George wrote: > > Maybe consider a folded dipole? > Ill have to consult the ARRL Antenna Book... > > Neal George > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 20, 2017, at 11:07 AM, user9253 wrote: > > > Since there is not enough room for a dipole, ... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Dec 21, 2017
or is it 300 ohms, so 1:6 balun? On 21/12/2017 5:14 PM, Bill Maxwell wrote: > > As I recall, the characteristic impedance of a folded dipole is 200 > ohms, so you would probably need a 1:4 balun to feed it from 50 ohm coax? > > Bill > > > On 21/12/2017 5:06 PM, Neal George wrote: >> >> Maybe consider a folded dipole? >> Ill have to consult the ARRL Antenna Book... >> >> Neal George >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 20, 2017, at 11:07 AM, user9253 wrote: >> >> >> Since there is not enough room for a dipole, ... >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
At 12:14 AM 12/21/2017, you wrote: >As I recall, the characteristic impedance of a folded dipole is 200 >ohms, so you would probably need a 1:4 balun to feed it from 50 ohm coax? > >Bill Actually, closer to 300 ohms. WAAaaayyy back when television Yagis featuring folded driven elements were a close match to 300-ohm twin-lead. Antennas and airplanes just don't really play nicely together . . . the most elegant solution is almost always a compromise . . . a departure from that which can be achieved in terrestrial environs. Fortunately, VHF communications is (1) mostly short range and (2) line of sight. Hence, a few watts of transmitter and a wet string for an antenna will generally put you in contact with the other station. For the build in question, the goal is to get as much of a 1/4 wave, vertically oriented radiator supported on the leading edge of a composite vertical fin . . . which MUST be glass/epoxy structure to minimize RF attenuation. Then, it would be NICE if we could put an 1/4 wave radius ground plane around the base. Emacs! Hmmmm . . . that would make for a funny looking airplane . . . even the first level compromise of crafting a ground plane from multiple radials is out of question. Okay, compromise #3, a SINGLE 1/4 wave element that extends back along the feedline toward the radio. Here's one of dozens of examples in the DIY antenna crowd. https://goo.gl/HXCBzh This article is pretty close. The author stubs his toe in assuming that the velocity factor of the 'bazooka' section is the same as the velocity factor of the coax used to fabricate the feedline and antenna. In fact, velocity factor is a function of dielectric characteristics between two conductors, in this case center conductor and the surrounding shield. For coax, the dielectric is some material designed to hold the center conductor alignment while minimizing losses. It's true that the outer braid of the bazooka does form a coaxial section over the outer braid of the feed line . . . but with a DIFFERENT dielectric which is not low loss center conductor support but a robust outer jacket of the coax that has nothing in common with the RF characteristics of the inner insulation. Hence the velocity factor of the feed line has no relationship to the design of the de-coupling sleeve. This antenna can be installed in a glass/epoxy airplane with the radiating element firmly built into the vertical fin structure. The feed line can be fitted with a de-coupling 'bazooka' . . . and essentially treated as any other feed line. I've got the test equipment necessary to tune the de-coupling sleeve to accommodate the new dielectric/conductor combination . . . but it will probably be after the first of the year before I'll be able to get to it. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: The morning smile . ..
Emacs! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: The morning smile . ..
Date: Dec 21, 2017
My wife would be much more impressed by the C-97. Rene' 801-721-6080 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:30 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: The morning smile . .. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 21, 2017
Wade, here's a small (1.46" x 0.56") PCB to carry Bob's suggested circuit plus a voltage regulator... https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/xwyh5mon ...and here's a Digi-Key shopping cart with the necessary parts... http://www.digikey.com/short/qqfnwm Connect 'IN+' to the Electroair ignition module advance signal and 'IN-' to the Electroair local ground. Connect 'BUS' and 'GND' to 12V and ground, and 'OUT' to the desired EIS input. If you'd like, I'm happy to put this together and send it along with the other stuff. It will be about $22.50 with the shipping and tax from Digi-Key. I can just add this to the PayPal invoice for the voltage slump eliminator. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476673#476673 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr>
Date: Dec 22, 2017
Hi all, Thanks to all who responded. Indeed the dipole is out of the question and we'll have to go the 1/4 wave route. /Le 21/12/2017 17:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit : / > / > Okay, compromise #3, a SINGLE 1/4 wave element that > extends back along the feedline toward the radio. Here's > one of dozens of examples in the DIY antenna crowd. > > / /https://goo.gl/HXCBzh/ Most interesting. Maybe this as something in common with the Becker 1A005 ? http://www.beckerusa.com/Products/1a005-2/ Which we find too expensive at ~100 . > > > / > I've got the test equipment necessary to tune > the de-coupling sleeve to accommodate the new > dielectric/conductor combination . . . but it > will probably be after the first of the year > before I'll be able to get to it. / I'd be most interested in your findings in order to craft a bazooka for an acceptable VHF antenna in the tail fin. Thanks again, -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: VHF Antenna in tail
From: Graeme Coates & Sharon Beaman <coatbeam(at)melbpc.org.au>
Date: Dec 22, 2017
Hi Jim Weir designed a copper tape antenna years ago. See sport Aviation Jan 1981 (attached) and http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/products/plasticplaneantenna/plasticplaneantenna_files/2802%20Manual-s.pdf Very simple and cheap. > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VHF antenna in the tail > From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> > > /Le 20/12/2017 02:41, GTH a crit : > / >> / >> On the attached picture of the rear half-fuselage, the glass fin can >> be seen, with the carbon fiber tail cone at the base. A small number >> of foam ribs will be added. >> >> Question 1 : What would be the lightest and most inexpensive way to >> construct an efficient VHF antenna housed in the tail fin ? >> Question 2 : Will it be necessary to build a glass fiber rudder, or >> will carbon fiber be acceptable (weight concern) ? >> / >> > Hi all, > > Thank you everyone who responded. > The project is a small airplane with the fin about 800 mm high (~950 mm > leading edge), so space seems a bit limited for a dipole antenna. > Still looking into any solution. > The idea is to design something mostly DIY for cost reasons, so this > seems to rule out off-the-shelf antennas. > Any ideas ? > > BTW, what is the influence of the radiating element width/diameter vs > selectivity or else ? > Any hard facts on the subject ? > > Thanks for any input, > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 21, 2017
Eric, If you're sure you don't mind, that would be a huge help... Thanks a million! (And to all the others collaborating on this). Warm regards and Merry Christmas, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476681#476681 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 21, 2017
No problem. Lately I've been a little low on things to do in my "off" time, so I'd be glad to build it. Parts and boards are ordered. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476682#476682 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl>
Date: Dec 22, 2017
Velocity factor in fiberglass will be less than in open air, making the optimal lengths a little shorter (in the order of 10%?) than what is tested in air. It may be useful to install in a way that allows in situ shortening & replacing. Or not: one can probably guess and declare the result good enough. Regards, Jan de Jong On 12/22/2017 1:23 AM, GTH wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks to all who responded. > Indeed the dipole is out of the question and we'll have to go the 1/4 > wave route. > > > /Le 21/12/2017 17:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit : > / >> / >> Okay, compromise #3, a SINGLE 1/4 wave element that >> extends back along the feedline toward the radio. Here's >> one of dozens of examples in the DIY antenna crowd. >> >> / /https://goo.gl/HXCBzh/ > > Most interesting. > Maybe this as something in common with the Becker 1A005 ? > http://www.beckerusa.com/Products/1a005-2/ > Which we find too expensive at ~100 . > > >> >> >> / >> I've got the test equipment necessary to tune >> the de-coupling sleeve to accommodate the new >> dielectric/conductor combination . . . but it >> will probably be after the first of the year >> before I'll be able to get to it. / > > I'd be most interested in your findings in order to craft a bazooka > for an acceptable VHF antenna in the tail fin. > > Thanks again, > -- > Best regards, > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAoAAAAG6CAIAAAAXpmAiAAAgAElEQVR4nOydd1wUx///VXrn 7rjjjq4gUjTR2GI0xm4SYyOixhZLNMYC0TQ15mOLGkuMXaOx16iJxhYNdkFUUASsGEVEivRy 3G3398f82O/m7liuwrG+n3/4wL2dmffM7rxfO73RKwAAhAhTDU3TJEkSBJGYmPjHH3+cO3fu 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Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition spark advance signal boost
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 22, 2017
Excellent... thanks again. -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476685#476685 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
>Hi all, > >Thank you everyone who responded. >The project is a small airplane with the fin about 800 mm high (~950 >mm leading edge), so space seems a bit limited for a dipole antenna. >Still looking into any solution. >The idea is to design something mostly DIY for cost reasons, so this >seems to rule out off-the-shelf antennas. >Any ideas ? > >BTW, what is the influence of the radiating element width/diameter >vs selectivity or else ? >Any hard facts on the subject ? Can you describe the physical configuration of the vertical fin vis-a-vis the empennage? Is the vertical fin detachable? I presume the antenna, once installed, will forever more be inaccessible for tweeking? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Ashura <ashuramj(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Radio Volume
Date: Dec 23, 2017
When my newly installed COM radio is turned on, everything is working. After a few seconds volume decreases and it is scratchy. Any ideas? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr>
Date: Dec 23, 2017
/Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit : / > / > Can you describe the physical configuration of > the vertical fin vis-a-vis the empennage? Is > the vertical fin detachable?/ Hi Bob, Thank you for responding. The vertical fin is integral with the fuselage, which comes as two halves bonded together along the vertical plane of symmetry, like a plastic model. The whole airframe is carbon, except the vertical fin which is made of glass. Hope the included picture taken some days ago is getting through. > / > I presume the antenna, once installed, will > forever more be inaccessible for tweeking? / The antenna istself will be enclosed in the vertical fin. We'll have some access by crawling in the fuselage up to "some distance" from the fin base. Also there will be a removable aft tail-cone to give some access to the control linkage in the tail and -hopefully- to the antenna connection. Depending on the details, we might be able to make the antenna removable by sliding it into a plastic tube installed in the tail ? Thanks for your advice, -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2017
If there is access to the inside of the tail cone, then put the ground plane inside. It can either be a large sheet of thin metal, or else radials made from wire or metallic tape. The fore and aft radials can be horizontal. The left and right radials can follow the curved tail skin. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476700#476700 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net>
Subject: VHF antenna in the tail
Date: Dec 23, 2017
I noticed that the inside of the fuselage is black. Is it carbon fiber or is that just a layer of black poly? Roger From: GTH Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 8:06 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VHF antenna in the tail Robert L. Nuckolls, III a =C3=A9crit=C2-: =C2- Can you describe the physical configuration of =C2- the vertical fin vis-a-vis the empennage? Is =C2- the vertical fin detachable? Hi Bob, Thank you for responding. The vertical fin is integral with the fuselage, which comes as two halves b onded together along the vertical plane of symmetry, like a plastic model. The whole airframe is carbon, except the vertical fin which is made of glas s. Hope the included picture taken some days ago is getting through. =C2- I presume the antenna, once installed, will =C2- forever more be inaccessible for tweeking?=C2- The antenna istself will be enclosed in the vertical fin. We'll have some access by crawling in the fuselage up to "some distance" fr om the fin base. Also there will be a removable aft tail-cone to give some access to the con trol linkage in the tail and -hopefully- to the antenna connection. Depending on the details, we might be able to make the antenna removable by sliding it into a plastic tube installed in the tail ? Thanks for your advice, -- Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VHF antenna in the tail
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2017
Answered in the post to which you responded.... :-) On 12/23/2017 8:55 AM, Roger wrote: > > I noticed that the inside of the fuselage is black. Is it carbon > fiber or is that just a layer of black poly? > > Roger > > *From: *GTH <mailto:gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> > *Sent: *Saturday, December 23, 2017 8:06 AM > *To: *aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > > *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List: VHF antenna in the tail > > /Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit:/ > > / > Can you describe the physical configuration of > the vertical fin vis-a-vis the empennage? Is > the vertical fin detachable?/ > > > Hi Bob, > > Thank you for responding. > The vertical fin is integral with the fuselage, which comes as two > halves bonded together along the vertical plane of symmetry, like a > plastic model. > The whole airframe is carbon, except the vertical fin which is made of > glass. > > Hope the included picture taken some days ago is getting through. > > cid:part1.B2F783AE.59E84245(at)free.fr > > > / > I presume the antenna, once installed, will > forever more be inaccessible for tweeking? / > > > The antenna istself will be enclosed in the vertical fin. > We'll have some access by crawling in the fuselage up to "some > distance" from the fin base. > Also there will be a removable aft tail-cone to give some access to > the control linkage in the tail and -hopefully- to the antenna connection. > > Depending on the details, we might be able to make the antenna > removable by sliding it into a plastic tube installed in the tail ? > > Thanks for your advice, > > -- > Best regards, > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
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Subject: =?utf-8?B?4pyIUmU6IEFpcmxpbmVzIEZvciBBbWVyaWNh?
Date: Dec 23, 2017
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Subject: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
From: "andymeyer" <ameyer@mil-amax.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2017
I'm in the process of putting together a data collector for my O-235 in my Long EZ... I've got the 8 thermocouples set up and working via a KTA259k shield and a Sparkfun SAMD21 Mini board. I'll end up building a board with 8 MAX31855's in the near future for faster data. I'm also reading Manifold press, Timing and RPM from a Lightspeed ignition and Oil press and Temp from the installed engine sensors. Loop is a continuity loop - the other side of the circuit has a 10k resistor to ground... If the loop is open, the circuit will go high. If the loop is shorted, it'll go low, and if all is normal, it'll hover about in the middle. I'm just looking for a quick review of the circuits to make sure I'm close before I start burning fingertips. For the MP and timing, I'm thinking a 2Hz filter in hardware. The RPM is a 15ms 10V pulse - 2 per rev (with a zener for protection and a little filtering to clean up noise). The oil pressure is a 5 volt sensor (5->3.3v divider with zener protection) and the Oil Temp is a low resistance sensor from a Westach oil pressure gauge. I understand that a 220Ohm resistor is about right with these. The Arduino is a 3.3v flavor. Any suggestions for improvements in values or circuit designs before I change my fingerprints (again.) :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476704#476704 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rearcircuits2_714.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/rearcircuits1_139.png ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2017
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
Why not do your 2Hz filtering in software? Unless you need a quite specific frequency response you can do a simple but effective exponential filter, with this in your main loop: filteredValue = e * sample + (1-e) * filteredValue choose appropriate value of e to achieve the smoothing you want according to how often the loop cycles. On Dec 23, 2017, at 12:07, andymeyer <ameyer@mil-amax.com> wrote: I'm in the process of putting together a data collector for my O-235 in my Long EZ... I've got the 8 thermocouples set up and working via a KTA259k shield and a Sparkfun SAMD21 Mini board. I'll end up building a board with 8 MAX31855's in the near future for faster data. I'm also reading Manifold press, Timing and RPM from a Lightspeed ignition and Oil press and Temp from the installed engine sensors. Loop is a continuity loop - the other side of the circuit has a 10k resistor to ground... If the loop is open, the circuit will go high. If the loop is shorted, it'll go low, and if all is normal, it'll hover about in the middle. I'm just looking for a quick review of the circuits to make sure I'm close before I start burning fingertips. For the MP and timing, I'm thinking a 2Hz filter in hardware. The RPM is a 15ms 10V pulse - 2 per rev (with a zener for protection and a little filtering to clean up noise). The oil pressure is a 5 volt sensor (5->3.3v divider with zener protection) and the Oil Temp is a low resistance sensor from a Westach oil pressure gauge. I understand that a 220Ohm resistor is about right with these. The Arduino is a 3.3v flavor. Any suggestions for improvements in values or circuit designs before I change my fingerprints (again.) :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476704#476704 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rearcircuits2_714.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/rearcircuits1_139.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
From: "andymeyer" <ameyer@mil-amax.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2017
alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote: > Why not do your 2Hz filtering in software? > Unless you need a quite specific frequency response you can do a simple but effective exponential filter, with this in your main loop: > > filteredValue = e * sample + (1-e) * filteredValue > > choose appropriate value of e to achieve the smoothing you want according to how often the loop cycles. > My only thought was that the hardware filtering will clean up noise that will get into the software filtering. It also slows down the requirements for data collection for the filter... I can sample the Oil press a couple of times a second and have good data. Or, am I over thinking this? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476709#476709 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
Date: Dec 23, 2017
Both digital and analog filtering (and digital sampling) are all *huge* topics with libraries of textbooks devoted to them. So whether youre overthinking this depends on what kind of results you want, I suppose. You might want to ask yourself how noisy do you expect your oil pressure sensor to be? Wheres the noise coming from? What kind of spectrum does the noise have? What does the real signal under the noise look like? If you want filtering it does help to know what it is youre trying to filter out and what youre trying to keep. Software filtering is easy to adjust, and your Arduino is likely to be sitting in a loop doing nothing for almost all of its processor cycles, so youve plenty of processing resource: it probably doesnt cost you more to sample at 5Hz, or 10Hz. On Dec 23, 2017, at 3:06 PM, andymeyer <ameyer@mil-amax.com> wrote: alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote: > Why not do your 2Hz filtering in software? > Unless you need a quite specific frequency response you can do a simple but effective exponential filter, with this in your main loop: > > filteredValue = e * sample + (1-e) * filteredValue > > choose appropriate value of e to achieve the smoothing you want according to how often the loop cycles. > My only thought was that the hardware filtering will clean up noise that will get into the software filtering. It also slows down the requirements for data collection for the filter... I can sample the Oil press a couple of times a second and have good data. Or, am I over thinking this? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476709#476709 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed
splitter
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2017
Project update: A prototype PCB for the video multiplexer is assembled and ready for programming. I'll mail it to Alec next week so he can test his firmware. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476726#476726 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Constructing an automatic RCA video camera feed
splitter
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2017
Eric, Again, awesome. I love it when (multiple) plans come together! :) Cheers, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476727#476727 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2017
I assembled the voltage slump eliminators today and have them ready to ship. I've sent an email to each of the forum members who asked for one, requesting their mailing address. If you're one of those people and you didn't see my email, please check your spam folder. I had requests from Rick Beebe, Joe Gores, Kenneth Larson and Wade Parton. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476730#476730 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
At 02:06 PM 12/23/2017, you wrote: > > >alec(at)alecmyers.com wrote: > > Why not do your 2Hz filtering in software? > > Unless you need a quite specific frequency response you can do a > simple but effective exponential filter, with this in your main loop: > > > > filteredValue = e * sample + (1-e) * filteredValue > > > > choose appropriate value of e to achieve the smoothing you want > according to how often the loop cycles. > > > >My only thought was that the hardware filtering will clean up noise >that will get into the software filtering. It also slows down the >requirements for data collection for the filter... I can sample the >Oil press a couple of times a second and have good data. Or, am I >over thinking this? What is design goal for use of the data? Trend monitoring? Failure analysis? Is there any data being collected with greater quality than your physiological perception latency? In the targets world, the only high speed data gathering and interpretation was for flight controls; generally sampled at 100Hz and rolled off at 10Hz in signal conditioning. All other data, engine conditions, airspeed, altitude, temperatures, etc were gathered and processed at 1Hz or slower. How are you going to treat the data gathered? Writing to Flash? How large a flash drive are you planning to incorporate. In other words, how many hours of flight data. Then supposing you have, say 100 hours of data on an SD card . . . by what process will you interpret, display and analyze the data? Dedicated application, EXCEL, etc. etc? The manner in which the data is to be used has a lot to say about the quality of the gathering techniques. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
> >My only thought was that the hardware filtering will clean up noise >that will get into the software filtering. It also slows down the >requirements for data collection for the filter... I can sample the >Oil press a couple of times a second and have good data. Or, am I >over thinking this? I have uploaded a preliminary data package on an Arduino based DAS that Paul and I have been fiddling with for about a year. I'm about to mail brass boarding hardware to Paul to debug and marry to his software. https://goo.gl/pGpX4i Use any of this as it suits your purposes. Since this was intended to be an investigative tool, we didn't get hard-over on filter roll offs. Those are component ratios that are easily adapted as needs present. We attempted to craft a 6 channel analog, 2 channel discrete DAS that could be user configured for a range of sample rates . . . as determined by software and configuration jumpers. We included a gain channel with cold-junction compensation for thermocouples, a gain channel with high common mode capabilities for measuring RTD, strain gages, shunts in bus feeders, etc. A hall effect current sensor that can be easily configured for a range of current measurements from plus/minus 1 amp to plus-minus hundreds of amps. The analog inputs can be configured to directly excite my all time favorite temperature sensor https://goo.gl/12tB3w Some analog inputs are easily switched between 5 and 25v full scale. The goal is to be easily incorporated inti bench testing, flight testing, under the hood, etc. situations. It will run from separate battery supply . . . or ship's bus. It features remote control of the run/stop command so that with a single conductor to the cockpit, the DAS under the cowl can be started and stopped at will thus chunking the data gathering task so that you don't have a SD card full of insignificant data interwoven with data of interest. Are you deeply committed to the 3.3v Vdd product? There are MANY more remote sensing products that work well in the 5v world as opposed to the 3.3 volt world. Unless you're striving for very low power ops on self contained batteries, I suggest you re-visit the 5.0 vs. 3.3 decision. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
From: "andymeyer" <ameyer@mil-amax.com>
Date: Dec 24, 2017
The original intent was basic data collection for looking at performance, cooling, drag reduction, etc... It's evolved a bit to be a full engine monitoring system - with display. I'm seeing how easy a 2.8" (or two) displays are easy and fast to drive. I've had a pretty relentless (as relentless as a father of 3 can be) pursuit of drag reduction... I'm close to 18 knots improvement on this airplane, and since I started recording low resolution data, I can show about 13 knots of provable gain. I've got a performance model that gets me within 1.2 knots at most normal conditions so any change can be found utilizing some 6 sigma manipulation. Goal is to get some of this computing ability into the engine monitor as well as greatly improve my data collection. Altitude hold AP is going in soon, etc... First goal is displaying the data as an engine monitor, and second will be collecting for model improvement and tracking drag reduction. A long goal is to be able to develop a system that can effectively back out a pilots performance handbook based on a few flight profiles flown during their first 40 hours on a new experimental. I'm looking for relatively clean data for presentment on the display initially. This first pass will be a few boards soldered up and mounted - functional for a few months while I work on the cockpit display, etc... Then, PCBA's built (and shared if there is other interest in this system...) I'll be writing more as I progress. My mechanical and aerodynamics prowess is much better than my electronics... But I'm learning. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476748#476748 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 24, 2017
On 12/24/2017 9:52 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> My only thought was that the hardware filtering will clean up noise >> that will get into the software filtering. It also slows down the >> requirements for data collection for the filter... I can sample the >> Oil press a couple of times a second and have good data. Or, am I >> over thinking this? > > I have uploaded a preliminary data package on > an Arduino based DAS that Paul and I have been > fiddling with for about a year. I'm about to > mail brass boarding hardware to Paul to debug > and marry to his software. > > https://goo.gl/pGpX4i > > Use any of this as it suits your purposes. > Since this was intended to be an investigative > tool, we didn't get hard-over on filter roll > offs. Those are component ratios that are easily > adapted as needs present. > > We attempted to craft a 6 channel analog, > 2 channel discrete DAS that could be user > configured for a range of sample rates . . . > as determined by software and configuration > jumpers. We included a gain channel with > cold-junction compensation for thermocouples, > a gain channel with high common mode capabilities > for measuring RTD, strain gages, shunts in bus > feeders, etc. A hall effect current sensor > that can be easily configured for a range > of current measurements from plus/minus 1 amp > to plus-minus hundreds of amps. The analog > inputs can be configured to directly excite > my all time favorite temperature sensor > > https://goo.gl/12tB3w > > Some analog inputs are easily switched between > 5 and 25v full scale. > > > The goal is to be easily incorporated inti > bench testing, flight testing, under the hood, > etc. situations. It will run from separate > battery supply . . . or ship's bus. > > It features remote control of the run/stop command > so that with a single conductor to the cockpit, > the DAS under the cowl can be started and stopped > at will thus chunking the data gathering task > so that you don't have a SD card full of insignificant > data interwoven with data of interest. > > Are you deeply committed to the 3.3v Vdd product? > There are MANY more remote sensing products that work > well in the 5v world as opposed to the 3.3 volt > world. Unless you're striving for very low power ops > on self contained batteries, I suggest you re-visit > the 5.0 vs. 3.3 decision. > > > Bob . . . > What's the reason for using a degree-K sensor, instead of a degree-F sensor (like the LM34)? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
>> >> Bob . . . >What's the reason for using a degree-K sensor, instead of a degree-F >sensor (like the LM34)? The DegreeK sensor presents ~2740 mV at room temperature and its output says above zero for even the lowest expected temperatures. To measure minus temps with a DegreeF device, you need a source of negative voltage to bias it up. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 26, 2017
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > Bob . . . > > What's the reason for using a degree-K sensor, instead of a degree-F > sensor (like the LM34)? > > > The DegreeK sensor presents ~2740 mV at room temperature > and its output says above zero for even the lowest expected > temperatures. To measure minus temps with a DegreeF device, > you need a source of negative voltage to bias it up. > > Bob . . . > Ah, yes. I suspected that; I didn't notice the negative supply requirement for sub-zero on the LM34 until after I hit 'send'. Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2017
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Sensors to Arduino...
>Ah, yes. I suspected that; I didn't notice the >negative supply requirement for sub-zero on the >LM34 until after I hit 'send'.=C2 Not only do you need a negative supply to get the device to function, you need an a/d converter that resolves negative voltages. DegreesK stays in the positi8ve range for all temperatures of interest and the rudimentary 0-5v input range for DAS isn't insulted either. I have a half dozen DegreesK sensors left over from Beech projects . . . a little chunk of 'stuff' soldered to the end of a single, shielded conductor. I think the the last time I used these was to monitor ambient and motor temperatures on the Beechejet's pitch trim system during an investigation into motor shaft failures. REALLY easy to fabricate and integrate into the DAS system. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Creative thievery
From: "Steeve77" <steevejackson73(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 27, 2017
You should keep several things in mind while you are doing online shopping. Firstly you have to select among best and top online stores that have great rating because of their work and service. I always shop online for my baby as i always find all variety and complete range of kids wear and no need to go out for shopping. You should select among Walmart, eBay, Adidas, Nike and other top brands. They allow you to shop best at cheap cost. I mostly use Walmart Coupons (https://www.reecoupons.com/view/walmart) for discounted shopping. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476829#476829 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2018
Subject:
Greetings, and happy new year! There was a thread back in June 2017 about a fuel transfer controller, but I never saw a conclusion. Here's a link to the forum version (unfortunately, I don't think all the posts show up in this link): http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469830#469830 Did that project ever come to fruition? I saw mention of the circuit having hysteresis numbers, but never saw how they were set or determined. I'm interested in something like this for my RV-7, which has added tanks added (configured to feed the engine from one tank, with transfer from 3 aux tanks). My goal would be to drive a Facet Cube pump (likely 2-3 amps run current, call it 5A max). Use the stock 240 ohm resistive fuel level sender as the level source for the controller, but have flexibility to feed it 12V if using stock gauges, or 5V if driven by an engine monitor. Have 'settable' tank-full and pump-start reference voltages. Nice to have: auto-shutoff on a tank dry signal (I'm using an optical sensor in the line after the aux tank fuel selector). Any thoughts? Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fuel transfer controller
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2018
oops. Forgot to insert a subject in the previous post. Sorry for the double-post. On 1/1/2018 3:48 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Greetings, and happy new year! > > There was a thread back in June 2017 about a fuel transfer controller, > but I never saw a conclusion. Here's a link to the forum version > (unfortunately, I don't think all the posts show up in this link): > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469830#469830 > > Did that project ever come to fruition? I saw mention of the circuit > having hysteresis numbers, but never saw how they were set or determined. > > I'm interested in something like this for my RV-7, which has added > tanks added (configured to feed the engine from one tank, with > transfer from 3 aux tanks). > > My goal would be to drive a Facet Cube pump (likely 2-3 amps run > current, call it 5A max). > > Use the stock 240 ohm resistive fuel level sender as the level source > for the controller, but have flexibility to feed it 12V if using stock > gauges, or 5V if driven by an engine monitor. > > Have 'settable' tank-full and pump-start reference voltages. > > Nice to have: auto-shutoff on a tank dry signal (I'm using an optical > sensor in the line after the aux tank fuel selector). > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Stearns <steve(at)tomasara.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2018
Subject: Testing Battery Capacity...
Greetings, I've built up the capacity tester documented by Bob N. in: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf and thought folks might want to see what it looks like in the flesh. I've attached a picture but let me know if it fails to show up. Since I only get the digest version of the postings, I won't get it (I never see any attachments). If anyone else who gets the digest want a copy, just email me direct with the request and I'll send the pic back in my reply. The two resistors, the zener and the transistor are all on the little piece of prototyping circuit board zip-tied to the top of the relay. For me it was easier to come up with a 3 ohm 100W power resistor than the 55W 12V lamp shown in Bob's schematic. I tested the 17AHr AGM battery (Werker, from Batteries Plus) which I pulled out of my Longeze this last summer (after two years of service) and, at ~18 degreesF, it ran for 2hrs 35 minutes. I've yet to test the battery I replaced it with. This is no where near long enough to match my max duration (which is no surprise since my max duration at economy cruise at altitude is almost 12 hrs...) but it good enough to provide enough options. Steve Stearns O235 Longeze ~1400 Hrs. Boulder/Longmont CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Battery, Alternator, CB
Date: Jan 01, 2018
Happy New Year! The quest for understanding continues: Heres the issue - A recent post described a situation where a field switch CB had been opened in flight accidentally and the battery had run down. When it was discovered and closed the alternator came back on line but opened the Alternator CB because it was rated less than the charging rate of the alternator. So there was no way to charge the battery. Hence the recommendation to size the alternator CB to the alternator capacity. But what about the battery capacity? I believe its true that the alternator puts out is rated capacity whenever the field circuit allows it to operate. So after engine start a 70 amp alternator rapidly recharges the battery and the field circuit opens and closes to keep the system up to the set voltage of say 14.2. Ive read elsewhere that the charging rate should not be over 40% of the amp hour capacity of the AGM batteries. So if I have a 70 amp alternator and a 35 amp hour battery it looks like it wont last very long because of too high a rate of charging. Do I understand what Im writing about? Any suggestions? Thanks to all of you, Bernie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Battery, Alternator, CB
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2018
Find and read the battery manufacturer's charging recommendations. The concern is voltage, not current. The battery takes whatever current that it wants. The alternator capacity does not determine the current that charges the battery. Assuming voltage regulator set-point is correct, a 35 amp alternator will not charge a battery any faster than a 70 amp alternator (unless the battery is completely run down). I might not have explained it very well, but I do not think there is anything to worry about. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476978#476978 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2018
Subject: Re: ectric-List:
Charlie, have you seen the aircraftextras.com auxiliary fuel pump relays? I Installed these in my RV 10 and they work well. Rick C-GDMH Sent from my iPad > On Jan 1, 2018, at 4:48 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > Greetings, and happy new year! > > There was a thread back in June 2017 about a fuel transfer controller, but I never saw a conclusion. Here's a link to the forum version (unfortunately , I don't think all the posts show up in this link): > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469830#469830 > > Did that project ever come to fruition? I saw mention of the circuit havin g hysteresis numbers, but never saw how they were set or determined. > > > I'm interested in something like this for my RV-7, which has added tanks a dded (configured to feed the engine from one tank, with transfer from 3 aux t anks). > > My goal would be to drive a Facet Cube pump (likely 2-3 amps run current, c all it 5A max). > > Use the stock 240 ohm resistive fuel level sender as the level source for t he controller, but have flexibility to feed it 12V if using stock gauges, or 5V if driven by an engine monitor. > > Have 'settable' tank-full and pump-start reference voltages. > > Nice to have: auto-shutoff on a tank dry signal (I'm using an optical sens or in the line after the aux tank fuel selector). > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Battery, Alternator, CB
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2018
On 1/1/2018 5:01 PM, Bernie Willis wrote: > > Happy New Year! > > The quest for understanding continues: Heres the issue - A recent post described a situation where a field switch CB had been opened in flight accidentally and the battery had run down. When it was discovered and closed the alternator came back on line but opened the Alternator CB because it was rated less than the charging rate of the alternator. So there was no way to charge the battery. Hence the recommendation to size the alternator CB to the alternator capacity. But what about the battery capacity? > > I believe its true that the alternator puts out is rated capacity whenever the field circuit allows it to operate. So after engine start a 70 amp alternator rapidly recharges the battery and the field circuit opens and closes to keep the system up to the set voltage of say 14.2. Ive read elsewhere that the charging rate should not be over 40% of the amp hour capacity of the AGM batteries. So if I have a 70 amp alternator and a 35 amp hour battery it looks like it wont last very long because of too high a rate of charging. > > Do I understand what Im writing about? Any suggestions? > > Thanks to all of you, > Bernie I'd agree with Joe. 'Traditionally', field breakers have been around 5 amps, but some regulators can try to draw more than that to get the alternator's output *voltage* up to the set point when there's a really heavy load on its output (like all the electrical stuff operating and suddenly hitting it with the load of a dead battery). The alternator/regulator don't really control output *current*; they just try to maintain setpoint *voltage*. If a really big load is added, like pitot heat + landing lights + etc etc, plus a totally dead battery, then the alt/reg pair will try to supply whatever current is required to keep the voltage at the setpoint. (Ohm's Law). As Joe said, 14.x volts applied to a fully charged battery will result in virtually no current flow into the battery. But the same 14.x volts applied to a nearly dead battery will likely result in close to full available current from the alternator into the battery. The battery size vs alternator size 'waters' got muddied badly on another aviation forum by a certain lithium battery company telling its customers that they *did* have to limit alternator current capacity based on the lithium battery's capacity. That battery has a charge controller built in, so it shouldn't care about alternator size (just like a little 0.01 amp LED lamp doesn't care if it's hooked to a battery capable of 400 amps). Unfortunately, they've never been able to give a rational explanation for their rule. The direct answer to your question about too much charge current is that it shouldn't be dead in a flying airplane. :-) Seriously, the fact that it was allowed to go dead while in flight created a 'no good answer' situation, since an a/c charging system isn't designed to do a conditioned recharge of a dead battery. Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ectric-List:
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2018
I hadn't seen it; thanks for the link. Unfortunately, it won't do what Bob's design from last summer will do. (Pretty pricey, as well. :-) ) Bob's design allows controlling the pump with the fuel level sensor in the main/header tank. Charlie On 1/1/2018 7:23 PM, Rick Lark wrote: > Charlie, have you seen the aircraftextras.com > <http://aircraftextras.com> auxiliary fuel pump relays? > I Installed these in my RV 10 and they work well. > Rick > C-GDMH > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 1, 2018, at 4:48 PM, Charlie England > wrote: > >> Greetings, and happy new year! >> >> There was a thread back in June 2017 about a fuel transfer >> controller, but I never saw a conclusion. Here's a link to the forum >> version (unfortunately, I don't think all the posts show up in this >> link): >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469830#469830 >> >> Did that project ever come to fruition? I saw mention of the circuit >> having hysteresis numbers, but never saw how they were set or determined. >> >> I'm interested in something like this for my RV-7, which has added >> tanks added (configured to feed the engine from one tank, with >> transfer from 3 aux tanks). >> >> My goal would be to drive a Facet Cube pump (likely 2-3 amps run >> current, call it 5A max). >> >> Use the stock 240 ohm resistive fuel level sender as the level source >> for the controller, but have flexibility to feed it 12V if using >> stock gauges, or 5V if driven by an engine monitor. >> >> Have 'settable' tank-full and pump-start reference voltages. >> >> Nice to have: auto-shutoff on a tank dry signal (I'm using an optical >> sensor in the line after the aux tank fuel selector). >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery, Alternator, CB
At 05:01 PM 1/1/2018, you wrote: > >Happy New Year! > >The quest for understanding continues: Here=99s >the issue - A recent post described a situation >where a field switch CB had been opened in >flight accidentally and the battery had run >down. When it was discovered and closed the >alternator came back on line but opened the >Alternator CB because it was rated less than the >charging rate of the alternator. So there was >no way to charge the battery. Hence the >recommendation to size the alternator CB to the >alternator capacity. But what about the battery capacity? > >I believe its true that the alternator puts out >is rated capacity whenever the field circuit >allows it to operate. So after engine start a >70 amp alternator rapidly recharges the battery >and the field circuit opens and closes to keep >the system up to the set voltage of say >14.2. I=99ve read elsewhere that the charging >rate should not be over 40% of the amp hour >capacity of the AGM batteries. So if I have a 70 >amp alternator and a 35 amp hour battery it >looks like it won=99t last very long because of too high a rate of charging. > >Do I understand what I=99m writing about? Any suggestions? The alternator b-lead breaker protects the b-lead wire . . . it has no duties with respect to limiting output of the alternator. B-lead protection is best accomplished under the cowl with a current limiter (really FAT fuse) thus keeping the alternator's b-lead out of the cockpit. This has be common practice on TC aircraft for 50 years. That admonition for limiting recharge rate on ANY battery is the fondest fantasy of the battery designers . . . a condition that may well maximize battery service life in deep discharge applications but doesn't apply to service as a cranking battery in vehicles. Suggest you move your b-lead protection out to the firewall adjacent to the starter contactor as illustrated in Z13/8 https://goo.gl/BKufLb . . . and other z-figures. Protect with a current limiter rated for 50-70A. You can get miniature devices off eBay at reasonable prices . . . https://goo.gl/wG73m1 You can build a fuse holder with 10-32 or 1/4-28 hardware and some suitable base material. https://goo.gl/cMQtA4 For years during the changeover from generators to alternators, TC aircraft featured b-lead breakers on the panel DESIGNED to nuisance trip under certain conditions as explained in the narrative for Figure 17-2 of the 'Connection. Emacs! Current limiters are EXCEEDINGLY robust for their 'current carry ratings' . . . A 50A limiter will carry 90A indefinitely. But opens in about 300 milliseconds with a 200A load. Emacs! The battery-sources hard fault will be hundreds of amps . . . the current limiter will open very quickly while being immune to nuisance trips for normal, expected operating conditions. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Subject: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Indicator It's not good to initiate a takeoff with a 2-stroke engine that isn't warm enough, so I'd like to find or make a circuit that measures the temperature and extinguishes an LED when the temperature reaches a certain threshold. Preferably I'd like to adjust that threshold with software or a potentiometer. The result would be a "wait" light: start the engine, and don't take off until the LED is out. That would also function as a "you forgot to turn off the master" warning, after the flying is done. My first thought was a type K thermocouple measuring CHT under the spark plug, feeding to a hobbyist micro controller like this: https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket with a thermocouple amplifier like this: https://www.adafruit.com/product/1778 But since I'm only wanting a simple and binary wait/go indication rather than a readout in degrees, I wonder if the above plan is going a little overboard. The electrical system has an 18.5 volt battery for starting, with no onboard charging, so energy consumption is a minor consideration. Tiny size, durability, and reliability are high priorities. Does anyone have an idea for a simpler design, or better yet, is someone already selling one? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kent or Jackie Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Indicator
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Jared, maybe you could substitute a small (about 10cm X 20cm) voltage meter as sold on ebay. Search for mini voltage meter. Youd have the additional advantage of being able to watch the warmup and you wouldnt have to calibrate an LED on-off setpoint. They are cheap, I gotta try that on my bike! -Kent > On Jan 2, 2018, at 10:27 AM, Jared Yates wrote: > > It's not good to initiate a takeoff with a 2-stroke engine that isn't warm enough, so I'd like to find or make a circuit that measures the temperature and extinguishes an LED when the temperature reaches a certain threshold. Preferably I'd like to adjust that threshold with software or a potentiometer. The result would be a "wait" light: start the engine, and don't take off until the LED is out. That would also function as a "you forgot to turn off the master" warning, after the flying is done. > > My first thought was a type K thermocouple measuring CHT under the spark plug, feeding to a hobbyist micro controller like this: > https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket > with a thermocouple amplifier like this: > https://www.adafruit.com/product/1778 > > But since I'm only wanting a simple and binary wait/go indication rather than a readout in degrees, I wonder if the above plan is going a little overboard. The electrical system has an 18.5 volt battery for starting, with no onboard charging, so energy consumption is a minor consideration. Tiny size, durability, and reliability are high priorities. > > Does anyone have an idea for a simpler design, or better yet, is someone already selling one? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Subject: Re: Battery, Alternator, CB
Bob, Makes sense, ordered Aero Connection for a back up. Bernie Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 2, 2018, at 2:35 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelec tric.com> wrote: > > At 05:01 PM 1/1/2018, you wrote: .com> >> >> Happy New Year! >> >> The quest for understanding continues: Here=99s the issue - A rece nt post described a situation where a field switch CB had been opened in fli ght accidentally and the battery had run down. When it was discovered and c losed the alternator came back on line but opened the Alternator CB because i t was rated less than the charging rate of the alternator. So there was no w ay to charge the battery. Hence the recommendation to size the alternator C B to the alternator capacity. But what about the battery capacity? >> >> I believe its true that the alternator puts out is rated capacity wheneve r the field circuit allows it to operate. So after engine start a 70 amp al ternator rapidly recharges the battery and the field circuit opens and close s to keep the system up to the set voltage of say 14.2. I=99ve read e lsewhere that the charging rate should not be over 40% of the amp hour capac ity of the AGM batteries. So if I have a 70 amp alternator and a 35 amp hour battery it looks like it won=99t last very long because of too high a rate of charging. >> >> Do I understand what I=99m writing about? Any suggestions? > > The alternator b-lead breaker protects the b-lead > wire . . . it has no duties with respect to limiting > output of the alternator. B-lead protection is best > accomplished under the cowl with a current limiter > (really FAT fuse) thus keeping the alternator's > b-lead out of the cockpit. This has be common practice > on TC aircraft for 50 years. > > That admonition for limiting recharge rate on ANY > battery is the fondest fantasy of the battery > designers . . . a condition that may well maximize > battery service life in deep discharge applications > but doesn't apply to service as a cranking battery > in vehicles. > > Suggest you move your b-lead protection out to the > firewall adjacent to the starter contactor as illustrated > in Z13/8 > > https://goo.gl/BKufLb > > . . . and other z-figures. Protect with a current > limiter rated for 50-70A. You can get miniature > devices off eBay at reasonable prices . . . > > https://goo.gl/wG73m1 > > You can build a fuse holder with 10-32 or 1/4-28 > hardware and some suitable base material. > > https://goo.gl/cMQtA4 > > For years during the changeover from generators > to alternators, TC aircraft featured b-lead > breakers on the panel DESIGNED to nuisance > trip under certain conditions as explained in > the narrative for Figure 17-2 of the 'Connection. > > > > Current limiters are EXCEEDINGLY robust for their > 'current carry ratings' . . . A 50A limiter will > carry 90A indefinitely. But opens in about 300 > milliseconds with a 200A load. > > > > > The battery-sources hard fault will be hundreds of > amps . . . the current limiter will open very quickly > while being immune to nuisance trips for normal, expected > operating conditions. > > Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Indicator
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
On 1/2/2018 9:27 AM, Jared Yates wrote: > It's not good to initiate a takeoff with a 2-stroke engine that isn't > warm enough, so I'd like to find or make a circuit that measures the > temperature and extinguishes an LED when the temperature reaches a > certain threshold. Preferably I'd like to adjust that threshold with > software or a potentiometer. The result would be a "wait" light: start > the engine, and don't take off until the LED is out. That would also > function as a "you forgot to turn off the master" warning, after the > flying is done. > > My first thought was a type K thermocouple measuring CHT under the > spark plug, feeding to a hobbyist micro controller like this: > https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket > with a thermocouple amplifier like this: > https://www.adafruit.com/product/1778 > > But since I'm only wanting a simple and binary wait/go indication > rather than a readout in degrees, I wonder if the above plan is going > a little overboard. The electrical system has an 18.5 volt battery for > starting, with no onboard charging, so energy consumption is a minor > consideration. Tiny size, durability, and reliability are high priorities. > > Does anyone have an idea for a simpler design, or better yet, is > someone already selling one? > My 1st thought is that the 'forgot' mode probably won't be effective (at least for me), since it takes time for the heads to cool down. I know I'd be likely to walk away before the light came on. 2nd thought is that since I'd want CHT gauges anyway, why not just use them? I'd be sitting in the plane with the engine running, looking at the instruments, so why not just look at the CHT? No power required, no extra instrument. If you really want the light, an LM34 feeding a comparator circuit (op amp and some resistors) would work. Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Hi All, I've been working like crazy on my project and am getting ready to fly soon!!! One obstacle (among many) is a solution to my header tank fuel level sensor. I have a 5 gallon fiberglass header tank that the two wing tanks gravity flow into and then the engine uses this header tank as its sole source of fuel so it is good to know if this header tank is full. It had an ON/OFF float switch however that switch is no longer working and I tried to unscrew the float switch to replace it however it is so tight that I am worried the plastic body/hex nut will break off so it is best at this point to just leave it installed as a "plug" and pursue another solution. Has anyone used a MODA tank sensor kit from tankedge.com ? https://tankedge.com/accessories.html It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank with dual parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape. Somehow it measures the resistance between the two strips and determines the fuel quantity on the other side of the tank wall. Since I have a fiberglass header tank I am interested in this system...IF...it will integrate with my Dynon Skyview. It seems like it should work just fine because it puts out a variable voltage from zero to 5.0 volts. Naturally I want it to work but I also want it to be durable in the long run so if anyone has any experience with this unit please do share. Here is a quote from a cyber friend who used it however he is not running a Dynon: Once it is set-up you give the sensor 12 volts, and then reads the blue wire for voltage based on the tank level from 0-5 V. Here were my values during my initial test: Voltage provided - 12.4 V Empty - 1.1V 1 Gal - 2.7 V 2 Gal - 3.8 V 3 Gal - 4.5 V 4 Gal - 4.7 V (didnt measure beyond this value) Moving metal objects nearby (like an aileron bell crank) can change the voltage by as much as .15V. It also responds well to moving the tank around attempting to simulate flying conditions with low fuel in the sump and sloshing fuel. .. As always THANKS FOR YOUR HELP and I will report back if I get this airplane to fly!!! Bill Hunter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Indicator Thanks Charlie, this is a foot launch ultralight with no panel, so pilot viewing space is especially premium. Does the LM34 need to be in contact with the cylinder? I wonder how to best accomplish that, mechanically speaking. On January 2, 2018 11:37:25 Charlie England wrote: > > On 1/2/2018 9:27 AM, Jared Yates wrote: >> It's not good to initiate a takeoff with a 2-stroke engine that isn't >> warm enough, so I'd like to find or make a circuit that measures the >> temperature and extinguishes an LED when the temperature reaches a >> certain threshold. Preferably I'd like to adjust that threshold with >> software or a potentiometer. The result would be a "wait" light: start >> the engine, and don't take off until the LED is out. That would also >> function as a "you forgot to turn off the master" warning, after the >> flying is done. >> >> My first thought was a type K thermocouple measuring CHT under the >> spark plug, feeding to a hobbyist micro controller like this: >> https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket >> with a thermocouple amplifier like this: >> https://www.adafruit.com/product/1778 >> >> But since I'm only wanting a simple and binary wait/go indication >> rather than a readout in degrees, I wonder if the above plan is going >> a little overboard. The electrical system has an 18.5 volt battery for >> starting, with no onboard charging, so energy consumption is a minor >> consideration. Tiny size, durability, and reliability are high priorities. >> >> Does anyone have an idea for a simpler design, or better yet, is >> someone already selling one? >> > My 1st thought is that the 'forgot' mode probably won't be effective (at > least for me), since it takes time for the heads to cool down. I know > I'd be likely to walk away before the light came on. > > 2nd thought is that since I'd want CHT gauges anyway, why not just use > them? I'd be sitting in the plane with the engine running, looking at > the instruments, so why not just look at the CHT? No power required, no > extra instrument. > > If you really want the light, an LM34 feeding a comparator circuit (op > amp and some resistors) would work. > > Charlie > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Indicator
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Any temp sensor that you use will need to be in contact with the cyl, unless you want to use a laser thermometer. The TI doc describes soldering or gluing the LM34 to...whatever...., so you could use a metal case version, solder it to a bolt or pipe thread adapter that fits the CHT fitting in the head, and screw it in. http://www.ti.com/product/LM34/datasheet/layout#SNIS1613881 Just saw one possible limitation for the LM34; max operating temp is 300F. You might be able to work around that by mounting it on a fin, near the edge, instead of directly to the head. You'd need to 'calibrate' the temp delta between actual head temp & the temp at the edge of the fin, & set your trigger point based on that. On 1/2/2018 11:24 AM, Jared Yates wrote: > > > Thanks Charlie, this is a foot launch ultralight with no panel, so > pilot viewing space is especially premium. Does the LM34 need to be in > contact with the cylinder? I wonder how to best accomplish that, > mechanically speaking. > > > On January 2, 2018 11:37:25 Charlie England wrote: > >> >> >> On 1/2/2018 9:27 AM, Jared Yates wrote: >>> It's not good to initiate a takeoff with a 2-stroke engine that isn't >>> warm enough, so I'd like to find or make a circuit that measures the >>> temperature and extinguishes an LED when the temperature reaches a >>> certain threshold. Preferably I'd like to adjust that threshold with >>> software or a potentiometer. The result would be a "wait" light: start >>> the engine, and don't take off until the LED is out. That would also >>> function as a "you forgot to turn off the master" warning, after the >>> flying is done. >>> >>> My first thought was a type K thermocouple measuring CHT under the >>> spark plug, feeding to a hobbyist micro controller like this: >>> https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket >>> with a thermocouple amplifier like this: >>> https://www.adafruit.com/product/1778 >>> >>> But since I'm only wanting a simple and binary wait/go indication >>> rather than a readout in degrees, I wonder if the above plan is going >>> a little overboard. The electrical system has an 18.5 volt battery for >>> starting, with no onboard charging, so energy consumption is a minor >>> consideration. Tiny size, durability, and reliability are high >>> priorities. >>> >>> Does anyone have an idea for a simpler design, or better yet, is >>> someone already selling one? >>> >> My 1st thought is that the 'forgot' mode probably won't be effective (at >> least for me), since it takes time for the heads to cool down. I know >> I'd be likely to walk away before the light came on. >> >> 2nd thought is that since I'd want CHT gauges anyway, why not just use >> them? I'd be sitting in the plane with the engine running, looking at >> the instruments, so why not just look at the CHT? No power required, no >> extra instrument. >> >> If you really want the light, an LM34 feeding a comparator circuit (op >> amp and some resistors) would work. >> >> Charlie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery, Alternator, CB
I'd agree with Joe. 'Traditionally', field breakers have been around 5 amps, but some regulators can try to draw more than that to get the alternator's output *voltage* up to the set point when there's a really heavy load on its output (like all the electrical stuff operating and suddenly hitting it with the load of a dead battery). The current draw of a regulator is no greater than the maximum current draw of the alternator field . . . which in turn is limited by its resistance. Few alternators of any size will exceed 4A of field current, most are in the 3A range. The alternator/regulator don't really control output *current*; they just try to maintain setpoint *voltage*.=C2 If a really big load is added, like pitot heat + landing lights + etc etc, plus a totally dead battery, then the alt/reg pair will try to supply whatever current is required to keep the voltage at the setpoint. (Ohm's Law). Only up to the alternator's inherent current limit which is set by the design of the alternator. Generators used to require independent output current limiting . . . they would willingly grunt a load far in excess of their ratings often resulting in burned armature wires and commutators. An alternator is inherently current limited. If you discover an alternator with burned stator wires and/or fused diodes, then yes . . . it was no doubt subjected to loads in the upper range of its ratings . . . BUT INADEQUATELY COOLED. As Joe said, 14.x volts applied to a fully charged battery will result in virtually no current flow into the battery. But the same 14.x volts applied to a nearly dead battery will likely result in close to full available current from the alternator into the battery. A lead-acid battery, fully charged, sitting at room temperature presents an open circuit terminal voltage of about 13.0 volts. Applying an external source at slightly above 13.0 will not charge the battery (i.e. convert the state of its chemistry) but it will SUPPORT any self discharge currents inherent in the physics of ANY lead-acid battery. This is what a maintainer does . . . got a couple 100a.h. batteries in the shop right now. One sitting on Battery a Tender showing a green light (charged), it measures 13.11 volts; the other sitting open circuit for the past week, it measures 12.88 volts. A deeply discharged battery floated on a 13.8v charger will eventually accumulate a charge at or near 100% of rated capacity . . . it might take weeks. For example, the two batteries cited above were purchased in July and installed in a friend's John Deere road grader . . . two 100a.h. batteries in series for 24v system. I became aware that the grader had not been used in several months. Went out to his ranch and absconded with both batteries. Just for grins, I put them both on Battery Tenders (0.75A charge rate). It took about a week for the BTs to show a green light . . . but they DID ultimately boost the batteries tot he 14.4 or so volts that causes the BT to transition from CHARGE to MAINTENANCE. Emacs! I am pleased to suggest that the little Battery Tender Jr. should not be discounted as a useful charge/maintenance tool for just about any size battery. Oh, yeah . . . the plot above was measured as an exemplar BT recharge profile . . . it was not taken on the batteries cited. The battery size vs alternator size 'waters' got muddied badly on another aviation forum by a certain lithium battery company telling its customers that they *did* have to limit alternator current capacity based on the lithium battery's capacity. That battery has a charge controller built in, so it shouldn't care about alternator size (just like a little 0.01 amp LED lamp doesn't care if it's hooked to a battery capable of 400 amps). Unfortunately, they've never been able to give a rational explanation for their rule. Pretty simple . . . not all lithium ion products are the same irrespective of their common chemistry. LiFePO4 is the chemistry of choice for robustness and generally 'airplane friendly' resistance to catching fire. However, the cell's ability to either sink or source high current values for extended periods of time is related to internal resistance (i.e. losses expressed as heating). There are LiFePO4 cells specifically tailored to accept and/or deliver large currents . . . an ESSENTIAL quality for miniature motive power (models, etc.) For example, this A123 product is speced to accept/deliver 30A https://tinyurl.com/yanszgtb This is approx 28 times the a.h. rating of the cell. This cell . . . https://tinyurl.com/y88ca38m while 'rated' at 9x the capacity of the A123 would toss in the towel at 10A of either charge/discharge. Most of the Lithium suppliers for light aircraft cranking batteries are using ROBUST cells. The direct answer to your question about too much charge current is that it shouldn't be dead in a flying airplane. :-) Seriously, the fact that it was allowed to go dead while in flight created a 'no good answer' situation, since an a/c charging system isn't designed to do a conditioned recharge of a dead battery. This goes to the core of the alternator vs. battery size discussion. When you crank an engine, the battery is generally tasked to the tune of about 5% of the contained energy. Yes, when the alternator comes on line, it will happily deliver whatever it can to meet the battery's acceptance rate which could be quite high . . . for a minute or so whereupon it begins to taper off. When operated in this 'normal' set of circumstances, even the smallest batteries are not damaged by what might otherwise appear to be an abusive recharge rate. However, allowing the ship's alternator to recharge a deeply discharged battery is another matter. This generally NEVER happens over the lifetime of the battery in your car . . . or your airplane. Most manuals for TC aircraft call for removing the deeply discharged battery from the airplane for bench recharge and inspection for airworthiness. The short answer: Select a lithium battery fabricated from robust cells. Be wary of "jump starting" the airplane and allowing the ship's alternator to stuff electrons back into a deeply discharged chemistry. If you can, go for the more sophisticated lithium products that emulate the features built into batteries qualified for TC aircraft . . . i.e. adequate, built in protection for over discharge, over charge, excessive current draw, etc. EarthX is one such product . . . there may be others by now. Haven't been tracking the market. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Ind
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Perhaps some kind of temperature switch would work? https://www.omega.com/pptst/TSW-TT.html -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477017#477017 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Subject: Re: Battery, Alternator, CB
On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > I'd agree with Joe. 'Traditionally', field breakers have been around 5 > amps, but some regulators can try to draw more than that to get the > alternator's output *voltage* up to the set point when there's a really > heavy load on its output (like all the electrical stuff operating and > suddenly hitting it with the load of a dead battery). > > The current draw of a regulator is no greater > than the maximum current draw of the alternator > field . . . which in turn is limited by its > resistance. Few alternators of any size will exceed > 4A of field current, most are in the 3A range. > > The alternator/regulator don't really control output *current*; they just > try to maintain setpoint *voltage*.=C3=82 If a really big load is added, like > pitot heat + landing lights + etc etc, plus a totally dead battery, then > the alt/reg pair will try to supply whatever current is required to keep > the voltage at the setpoint. (Ohm's Law). > > Only up to the alternator's inherent current limit > which is set by the design of the alternator. Generators > used to require independent output current limiting . . . > they would willingly grunt a load far in excess of > their ratings often resulting in burned armature > wires and commutators. > > An alternator is inherently current limited. If > you discover an alternator with burned stator > wires and/or fused diodes, then yes . . . it was > no doubt subjected to loads in the upper range > of its ratings . . . BUT INADEQUATELY COOLED. > > As Joe said, 14.x volts applied to a fully charged battery will result in > virtually no current flow into the battery. But the same 14.x volts appli ed > to a nearly dead battery will likely result in close to full available > current from the alternator into the battery. > > A lead-acid battery, fully charged, sitting at room > temperature presents an open circuit terminal > voltage of about 13.0 volts. Applying an external > source at slightly above 13.0 will not charge the > battery (i.e. convert the state of its chemistry) > but it will SUPPORT any self discharge currents > inherent in the physics of ANY lead-acid battery. > > This is what a maintainer does . . . got a couple 100a.h. > batteries in the shop right now. One sitting on Battery a > Tender showing a green light (charged), it measures > 13.11 volts; the other sitting open circuit for the past > week, it measures 12.88 volts. > > A deeply discharged battery floated on a 13.8v charger > will eventually accumulate a charge at or near 100% of > rated capacity . . . it might take weeks. For example, > the two batteries cited above were purchased in July > and installed in a friend's John Deere road grader . . . > two 100a.h. batteries in series for 24v system. > > I became aware that the grader had not been used in > several months. Went out to his ranch and absconded with > both batteries. Just for grins, I put them both on Battery > Tenders (0.75A charge rate). It took about a week > for the BTs to show a green light . . . but they DID > ultimately boost the batteries tot he 14.4 or so > volts that causes the BT to transition from CHARGE > to MAINTENANCE. > > [image: Emacs!] > > I am pleased to suggest that the little Battery Tender Jr. should > not be discounted as a useful charge/maintenance tool for just > about any size battery. Oh, yeah . . . the plot above was measured > as an exemplar BT recharge profile . . . it was not taken on the > batteries cited. > > The battery size vs alternator size 'waters' got muddied badly on another > aviation forum by a certain lithium battery company telling its customers > that they *did* have to limit alternator current capacity based on the > lithium battery's capacity. That battery has a charge controller built in , > so it shouldn't care about alternator size (just like a little 0.01 amp L ED > lamp doesn't care if it's hooked to a battery capable of 400 amps). > Unfortunately, they've never been able to give a rational explanation for > their rule. > > Pretty simple . . . not all lithium ion products are the same > irrespective of their common chemistry. LiFePO4 is the chemistry > of choice for robustness and generally 'airplane friendly' resistance > to catching fire. However, the cell's ability to either sink or source > high current values for extended periods of time is related to > internal resistance (i.e. losses expressed as heating). > > There are LiFePO4 cells specifically tailored to accept and/or > deliver large currents . . . an ESSENTIAL quality for miniature > motive power (models, etc.) For example, this A123 product is > speced to accept/deliver 30A > > https://tinyurl.com/yanszgtb > > This is approx 28 times the a.h. rating of the cell. This > cell . . . > > https://tinyurl.com/y88ca38m > > while 'rated' at 9x the capacity of the A123 would toss in the towel at > 10A of either charge/discharge. Most of the Lithium suppliers > for light aircraft cranking batteries are using ROBUST cells. > > The direct answer to your question about too much charge current is that > it shouldn't be dead in a flying airplane. :-) Seriously, the fact that i t > was allowed to go dead while in flight created a 'no good answer' > situation, since an a/c charging system isn't designed to do a conditione d > recharge of a dead battery. > > This goes to the core of the alternator vs. battery size > discussion. When you crank an engine, the battery is generally > tasked to the tune of about 5% of the contained energy. Yes, > when the alternator comes on line, it will happily deliver > whatever it can to meet the battery's acceptance rate which > could be quite high . . . for a minute or so whereupon it begins > to taper off. When operated in this 'normal' set of circumstances, > even the smallest batteries are not damaged by what might otherwise > appear to be an abusive recharge rate. > > However, allowing the ship's alternator to recharge a deeply > discharged battery is another matter. This generally NEVER happens > over the lifetime of the battery in your car . . . or your airplane. > Most manuals for TC aircraft call for removing the deeply discharged > battery from the airplane for bench recharge and inspection > for airworthiness. > > The short answer: Select a lithium battery fabricated from > robust cells. Be wary of "jump starting" the airplane and allowing > the ship's alternator to stuff electrons back into a deeply > discharged chemistry. If you can, go for the more sophisticated > lithium products that emulate the features built into batteries > qualified for TC aircraft . . . i.e. adequate, built in protection > for over discharge, over charge, excessive current draw, etc. > > EarthX is one such product . . . there may be others by now. Haven't > been tracking the market. > When I said 'try', that's what I meant; that it would *try* to supply whatever it *could* to keep the voltage at setpoint. The OP did say that his *field* breaker tripped. There have been several cases reported on various forums of 5A field breakers popping under high alternator output loads, and IIRC, someone actually posted on one of the forums (don't recall if it was here or elsewhere) at least one alternator spec sheet showing its field current could run very close to, or even above, 5A. I've never experienced the problem, but apparently others have, on multiple occasions. The mfgr I referenced that was muddying the waters on battery cap vs alternator cap is, in fact, EarthX. I've swapped posts with their public face on the VAF forum several times, and it would seem that even if they have a perfect product, their marketing face has no idea how it works. Scroll to the chart near the bottom of this page: earthx Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Battery, Alternator, CB
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > This cell... > > https://tinyurl.com/y88ca38m (https://tinyurl.com/y88ca38m) > > while 'rated' at 9x the capacity of the A123 would toss in the towel at 10A of either charge/discharge. Most of the Lithium suppliers for light aircraft cranking batteries are using ROBUST cells. I just want to point out, hopefully before anyone orders them, that these cells are most assuredly fakes. It's a symptom of a common problem with electronic components and "modules" from Chinese sellers; they frequently, and sometimes grossly, exaggerate the ratings or capabilities of their products. "High capacity" 18650s like these always test very poorly, often under 1,000maH. The highest legitimate capacity rating for an 18650 Li-Ion cell at present is the Panasonic NCR18650G at 3,600maH, but those are exceedingly hard to find in the wild. The highest capacity cells that are readily available are the LG MJ1 at 3,500mAh (rated 10A discharge) and the Panasonic NCR18650B at 3,400maH (rated 4.875A discharge). Generally speaking there's an inverse relationship between cell capacity and maximum discharge rate, though the MJ1 is challenging this notion. If you need 18650 cells for a project, you should stick to Panasonic, Sanyo, LG, Samsung, Sony or A123. Many of the other names-you've-never-heard-of brands use cell manufacturer and battery pack producer rejects, or used/salvaged cells (from laptop and tool batteries, typically). Some of these are stripped and re-wrapped to look like genuine high-spec OEM cells. Some sellers will even rewrap genuine cells of lower capacity (and cost) to look like high-spec cells. About 18 months ago there was a shortage of Samsung HG2 cells (3,000mAh, 20A discharge) when the factory shut down for retooling, and Chinese counterfeiters quickly began rewrapping HE2 cells (2,500maH, 20A discharge) as HG2s. Since the HE2 costs about $1 less in bulk and looks identical except for wrapping color, it was an easy moneymaker. Finding a seller with genuine name-brand cells can be a challenge on eBay, and the problem isn't limited to Chinese sellers since they wholesale their fakes to resellers around the globe. Be careful out there... Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477023#477023 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Product Alert
A venerable digital multimeter from my Beech "GoBox" finally went belly up after 10-12 years. Ordered this item for replacement: https://goo.gl/TSJsij This turns out to be an amazing value for accuracy and utility. Its an auto-ranging multimeter that measures ac/dc volts rms, millivolts rms, ohms, frequency to 10Khz, ac/dc amps and microamps and is even an signal generator. I've not checked the accuracy extensively . . . but the parameters I did look at tracked nicely with readings from the bench Fluke and Tektronix instruments. Better yet, it's about 1/4th the volume and weight of the instrument it's replacing . . .t he toolbox was getting tight. The banana jacke are actually on 0.75" centers! Will report new discoveries when and if they arise . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery, Alternator, CB
> >The OP did say that his *field* breaker tripped. >There have been several cases reported on >various forums of 5A field breakers popping >under high alternator output loads, and IIRC, >someone actually posted on one of the forums >(don't recall if it was here or elsewhere) at >least one alternator spec sheet showing its >field current could run very close to, or even >above, 5A. I've never experienced the problem, >but apparently others have, on multiple occasions.=C2 Hmmmm . . . I'd like to know which brand/model of alternator has so high a power requirement. Recall that an alternator's output is de-rated by what ever current is required to excite the field. I.e. a 60A ND alternator is 'really' ginning out 63A at minimum speed for full output. This is the condition where the regulator is full-ON and field voltage is equal to bus voltage. 5A of field current would dump 5 x 14 = 70 watts of no-value-added heat into the alternator's interior or about 10% of total energy. When a field breaker opens in flight, the first thought questions whether or not the system is fitted with crowbar ov protection . . . and they have suffered a nuisance trip. Another question explores the possibility of a shorted field winding where apparent field resistance goes down and potential field current goes up to compensate for the 'lost turns'. I've got a situation like that right now in my Minivan. A/C was popping clutch fuse . . . every so often. Measurement of current through the 7A fuse showed that clutch current was about 9A. Fewer turns of wire . . . but higher current . . . and the a/c continued to function if I put a 10A fuse in the holder. Ordered a new compressor/clutch assembly and put it on the shelf in anticipation of needing to replace it soon. The system ran though the rest of the summer . . . so I don't have to go turn any wrenches until spring. I have no foundation from which to argue with anyone's observations . . . but if they were suffering nuisance trips of a 5A breaker on an alternator field, I think it VERY likely that the 5+ amp draw is not related to the field current requirements of a normally functioning alternator. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Subject: Re: Battery, Alternator, CB
On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > The OP did say that his *field* breaker tripped. There have been several > cases reported on various forums of 5A field breakers popping under high > alternator output loads, and IIRC, someone actually posted on one of the > forums (don't recall if it was here or elsewhere) at least one alternator > spec sheet showing its field current could run very close to, or even > above, 5A. I've never experienced the problem, but apparently others have , > on multiple occasions.=C3=82 > > > Hmmmm . . . I'd like to know which brand/model of alternator > has so high a power requirement. Recall that an alternator's > output is de-rated by what ever current is required to excite > the field. I.e. a 60A ND alternator is 'really' ginning out > 63A at minimum speed for full output. This is the condition > where the regulator is full-ON and field voltage is equal > to bus voltage. > > 5A of field current would dump 5 x 14 = 70 watts > of no-value-added heat into the alternator's interior > or about 10% of total energy. > > When a field breaker opens in flight, the first thought > questions whether or not the system is fitted with crowbar > ov protection . . . and they have suffered a nuisance trip. > Another question explores the possibility of a shorted > field winding where apparent field resistance goes down > and potential field current goes up to compensate for the > 'lost turns'. > > I've got a situation like that right now in my Minivan. > A/C was popping clutch fuse . . . every so often. Measurement > of current through the 7A fuse showed that clutch current > was about 9A. Fewer turns of wire . . . but higher current . . . > and the a/c continued to function if I put a 10A fuse in > the holder. > > Ordered a new compressor/clutch assembly and put it on > the shelf in anticipation of needing to replace it soon. > The system ran though the rest of the summer . . . so > I don't have to go turn any wrenches until spring. > > I have no foundation from which to argue with anyone's > observations . . . but if they were suffering nuisance > trips of a 5A breaker on an alternator field, I think it > VERY likely that the 5+ amp draw is not related to > the field current requirements of a normally functioning > alternator. > > Bob . . . > That could well be the case. There are a lot of 'alternative facts' on the interwebs these days.... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Product Alert
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Indeed, these are nice little units and I agree, they're an amazing value. I bought the AN8009 recently, which is identical to your AN8008 except that it replaces the signal generator feature with temperature measurement and comes with a Type-K thermocouple. Mine appears to be quite accurate and is easy to use. My only complaint is a minor one: the LCD display could be a bit better on-axis; it's easiest to read if the meter lays flat on the bench and is viewed at a low angle from below the meter. Otherwise, at Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477027#477027 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine
Temperature Ind
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
On 1/2/2018 12:26 PM, user9253 wrote: > > Perhaps some kind of temperature switch would work? > https://www.omega.com/pptst/TSW-TT.html > > -------- > Joe Gores > I like Joe's find. Still have to watch the max temp, though. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2018
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine
Temperature Ind I like the temperature switch very much, thanks! Now I just need a little trial and error to sort out the right temperature range. On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Charlie England wrote: > ceengland7(at)gmail.com> > > On 1/2/2018 12:26 PM, user9253 wrote: > >> >> Perhaps some kind of temperature switch would work? >> https://www.omega.com/pptst/TSW-TT.html >> >> -------- >> Joe Gores >> >> I like Joe's find. Still have to watch the max temp, though. > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2018
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine
Temperature Ind Joe is the operating voltage not an issue? On 02 Jan 2018 8:33 PM, "user9253" wrote: > > Perhaps some kind of temperature switch would work? > https://www.omega.com/pptst/TSW-TT.html > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477017#477017 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Ind
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2018
No, the operating voltage is not a concern. The switch is rated for 2 amps at 24 VDC. That probably equates to 3 or 4 amps at 12 volts. If an indicator lamp is chosen that uses less than 1 amp, it should be fine. The switch is available as either normally open or normally closed. There is a 50-50 chance of getting it right. The original poster probably wants the normally closed switch. Another concern is selecting the correct operating temperature. And there is the life expectancy issue when subject to the vibration of a 2 cycle engine. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477046#477046 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine
Temperature Ind
From: C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2018
A tiny keychain size infra red thermometers for $12. might be more useful and less trouble to set up. No calibration issues and fairly vibration resistant. Remote mounting of the display might be possible. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Digital-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-LCD-Thermometer-DT-300-Black-UD6-LD/161818543747?hash=item25ad230683:g:SbkAAOSw0JpV7YxU Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Ind
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2018
Is it feasible to mount the infrared red thermometer, suggested by YellowDuck, inside of the cockpit and use a fiber optic cable to transmit the engine heat through the firewall to the thermometer? -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477049#477049 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe
At 11:01 AM 1/2/2018, you wrote: > > >Hi All, > >I've been working like crazy on my project and am getting ready to fly soon!!! > >One obstacle (among many) is a solution to my header tank fuel level >sensor. I have a 5 gallon fiberglass header tank that the two wing >tanks gravity flow into and then the engine uses this header tank as >its sole source of fuel so it is good to know if this header tank is >full. It had an ON/OFF float switch however that switch is no >longer working and I tried to unscrew the float switch to replace it >however it is so tight that I am worried the plastic body/hex nut >will break off so it is best at this point to just leave it >installed as a "plug" and pursue another solution. > >Has anyone used a MODA tank sensor kit from tankedge.com ? > >https://tankedge.com/accessories.html > >It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank >with dual parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape. Somehow it >measures the resistance between the two strips and determines the >fuel quantity on the other side of the tank wall. This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of tank material and air. When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine
Temperature Ind At 08:39 PM 1/2/2018, you wrote: > > >On 1/2/2018 12:26 PM, user9253 wrote: >> >>Perhaps some kind of temperature switch would work? >>https://www.omega.com/pptst/TSW-TT.html >> >>-------- >>Joe Gores >I like Joe's find. Still have to watch the max temp, though. Another option uses the Analog Devices thermocouple conditioners in a on-off switching mode. https://goo.gl/7ufeaL Here's a simplified schematic . . . Emacs! Instead of driving a heater control relay, one could drive an LED indicator light directly from the signal conditioner's output . . . This would let you connect directly to the cylinder head with appropriate thermocouple material. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)
>>It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank >>with dual parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape. Somehow it >>measures the resistance between the two strips and determines the >>fuel quantity on the other side of the tank wall. > > This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity > sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll > inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two > electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form > a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of > tank material and air. > > When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance > goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For > metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall > to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance. Okay, looking closer reveals that this is a capacity fuel gaging system, not just a level sensor. There is a whole new class of liquid level capacity transducer products out there. Recent developments in resolving capacity has spawned a variety of low cost instruments that will measure capacitance with good accuracy down into the picoFarads territory. There's a pretty simple methodology for using pic/arduino DIY processors to implement your own capacity liquid level measurement system wherein the sensor is nothing more than a twisted pair of wires with insulation impervious to the liquid being sensed. For the product cited above, the sensor is either copper foil electrodes on the outside of the plastic tank . . . or some analog built into the probe. This could be paired with a comparator that drives a 'tank full' indicator light. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com>
Subject: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe
Date: Jan 03, 2018
How about using this: http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/bingo-liquid-detector/ It was designed for this exact purchase, and Jim Wiebe (designer/owner) created it to indicate when a specific "bingo" (low fuel) level occurred in header tanks and in-wing fuel tanks, as a backup to the fuel gauges. (He has some pretty terrific fuel level sensors, as well for the experimental crowd.) You install this detector at whatever level in the fuel tank you choose, and it alerts you when the liquid level drops below that point. The LED indicator is normally green when the level is above the "bingo" level, and if/when it drops below that point, it flashes red for 10 seconds, then goes solid red. Installation seems dirt simple, and it seems to work with just about any liquid. There's a video demonstrating it on that page also. Currently on sale for $69.95. Jim Parker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe
Date: Jan 03, 2018
I have a system similar to that in my RV-10. 1 in each tank at the 3 gallon level. Only really use it when I want to run a tank dry. If the tank sloshes, then I do get some false alarms when it is bumpy. I use my float gages to alarm at 5 gallons left. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 11:58 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe How about using this: http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/bingo-liquid-detector/ It was designed for this exact purchase, and Jim Wiebe (designer/owner) created it to indicate when a specific "bingo" (low fuel) level occurred in header tanks and in-wing fuel tanks, as a backup to the fuel gauges. (He has some pretty terrific fuel level sensors, as well for the experimental crowd.) You install this detector at whatever level in the fuel tank you choose, and it alerts you when the liquid level drops below that point. The LED indicator is normally green when the level is above the "bingo" level, and if/when it drops below that point, it flashes red for 10 seconds, then goes solid red. Installation seems dirt simple, and it seems to work with just about any liquid. There's a video demonstrating it on that page also. Currently on sale for $69.95. Jim Parker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2018
Subject: Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)
Texas Instruments has a chip level solution for liquid level sensing by capacitive sense: http://www.ti.com/general/docs/video/watch.tsp?entryid=4279163138001 -chris stone On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote: > It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank with dual > parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape. Somehow it measures the > resistance between the two strips and determines the fuel quantity on the > other side of the tank wall. > > > This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity > sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll > inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two > electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form > a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of > tank material and air. > > When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance > goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For > metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall > to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance. > > > Okay, looking closer reveals that this is a > capacity fuel gaging system, not just a level > sensor. There is a whole new class of liquid level > capacity transducer products out there. > > Recent developments in resolving capacity has > spawned a variety of low cost instruments that > will measure capacitance with good accuracy > down into the picoFarads territory. > > There's a pretty simple methodology for using > pic/arduino DIY processors to implement your own > capacity liquid level measurement system wherein > the sensor is nothing more than a twisted pair of > wires with insulation impervious to the liquid being > sensed. > > For the product cited above, the sensor is either > copper foil electrodes on the outside of the plastic > tank . . . or some analog built into the > probe. > > This could be paired with a comparator that drives > a 'tank full' indicator light. > > > Bob . . . > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)
Date: Jan 03, 2018
Thanks all for your help!!! Good information. .. Cheers!!! Bill Hunter From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Cee Stone Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 12:13 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum) Texas Instruments has a chip level solution for liquid level sensing by capacitive sense: http://www.ti.com/general/docs/video/watch.tsp?entryid=4279163138001 -chris stone On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III > wrote: It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank with dual parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape. Somehow it measures the resistance between the two strips and determines the fuel quantity on the other side of the tank wall. This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of tank material and air. When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance. Okay, looking closer reveals that this is a capacity fuel gaging system, not just a level sensor. There is a whole new class of liquid level capacity transducer products out there. Recent developments in resolving capacity has spawned a variety of low cost instruments that will measure capacitance with good accuracy down into the picoFarads territory. There's a pretty simple methodology for using pic/arduino DIY processors to implement your own capacity liquid level measurement system wherein the sensor is nothing more than a twisted pair of wires with insulation impervious to the liquid being sensed. For the product cited above, the sensor is either copper foil electrodes on the outside of the plastic tank . . . or some analog built into the probe. This could be paired with a comparator that drives a 'tank full' indicator light. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)
From: Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2018
Interesting device. I wonder though whether a metal tank's contents can be measured as effectively by this device when mounted externally? On 4/01/2018 7:12 AM, Christopher Cee Stone wrote: > Texas Instruments has a chip level solution for liquid level sensing > by capacitive sense: > > http://www.ti.com/general/docs/video/watch.tsp?entryid=4279163138001 > > -chris stone > > > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > > wrote: > >>> It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank >>> with dual parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape. Somehow >>> it measures the resistance between the two strips and determines >>> the fuel quantity on the other side of the tank wall. >> >> This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity >> sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll >> inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two >> electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form >> a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of >> tank material and air. >> >> When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance >> goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For >> metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall >> to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance. > > Okay, looking closer reveals that this is a > capacity fuel gaging system, not just a level > sensor. There is a whole new class of liquid level > capacity transducer products out there. > > Recent developments in resolving capacity has > spawned a variety of low cost instruments that > will measure capacitance with good accuracy > down into the picoFarads territory. > > There's a pretty simple methodology for using > pic/arduino DIY processors to implement your own > capacity liquid level measurement system wherein > the sensor is nothing more than a twisted pair of > wires with insulation impervious to the liquid being > sensed. > > For the product cited above, the sensor is either > copper foil electrodes on the outside of the plastic > tank . . . or some analog built into the > probe. > > This could be paired with a comparator that drives > a 'tank full' indicator light. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: Simple temperature controlled switch
Date: Jan 04, 2018
Hi there Speaking of temperature control, can someone please point me out to a simple & cheap temperature controlled switch? The idea is just to turn on and off a pair of cooling fans I have in the dashboard, depending on the air temperature behind the avionics. Thanks Carlos De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Robert L. Nuckolls, III Enviada: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 5:38 PM Para: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Assunto: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature Ind Another option uses the Analog Devices thermocouple conditioners in a on-off switching mode. https://goo.gl/7ufeaL Here's a simplified schematic . . . Instead of driving a heater control relay, one could drive an LED indicator light directly from the signal conditioner's output . . . This would let you connect directly to the cylinder head with appropriate thermocouple material. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)
At 09:18 PM 1/3/2018, you wrote: >Interesting device. I wonder though whether a metal tank's contents >can be measured as effectively by this device when mounted externally? No . . . plastic only. You need to add the accessory probe through the wall of a metal tank. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Simple temperature controlled switch
At 07:37 AM 1/4/2018, you wrote: >From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> >To: >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Simple temperature controlled switch > >Hi there > >Speaking of temperature control, can someone please point me out to >a simple & cheap temperature controlled switch? >The idea is just to turn on and off a pair of cooling fans I have in >the dashboard, depending on the air temperature behind the avionics. > >Thanks >Carlos There are many options for thermo-mechanical switches (thermostats) like these on eBay. https://goo.gl/5XP2ed Then, for just a few dollars more, there are adjustable, thermostats that can be set up for either close on rise, or close on fall. Further, they can be tweaked for the operating set point. https://goo.gl/mfmzo7 Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Date: Jan 04, 2018
Subject: Re: Simple temperature controlled switch
Thanks Bob Exactly what I need. (With the profusion of things on sale on eBay and the such, it is not easy t o find the most appropriate) Cheers Carlos Enviado do meu iPhone No dia 04/01/2018, =C3-s 15:58, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aero electric.com> escreveu: > At 07:37 AM 1/4/2018, you wrote: >> From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> >> To: >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Simple temperature controlled switch >> >> Hi there >> >> Speaking of temperature control, can someone please point me out to a sim ple & cheap temperature controlled switch? >> The idea is just to turn on and off a pair of cooling fans I have in the d ashboard, depending on the air temperature behind the avionics. >> >> Thanks >> Carlos > > There are many options for thermo-mechanical switches > (thermostats) like these on eBay. > > https://goo.gl/5XP2ed > > Then, for just a few dollars more, there are adjustable, > thermostats that can be set up for either close on rise, > or close on fall. Further, they can be tweaked for the > operating set point. > > https://goo.gl/mfmzo7 > > > > > > Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2018
I have received the new and improved deslumpifier from Eric Page. I am impressed with the quality of construction. It looks like it was professionally made in a factory. Eric must do this kind of work for a living. Large parts have been glued (E6000 ?) to the circuit board to prevent damage from vibration. He even included one extra mounting screw in case I loose one. And there is one extra female flag type faston connector just in case I ruin one. It is too cold, 5 F or -15 C, to work on the plane. So I conducted this unscientific test: Input voltage to Deslumpifier: 11.62 Output voltage: 11.37 Load: Incandescent lamp part number 7219 draws 58 milliamp Applied power, then disconnected input to Deslumpifier. Lamp immediately dimmed slightly. Output voltage dropped to 10 volts within 2 seconds. After one full minute, voltage had dropped to 5.8, lamp filament glowed dimly. After two minutes, voltage had dropped to 3.3, lamp glowed very dimly. Conclusion: The Deslumpifier has lots of capacitance. :) -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477076#477076 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EFIS/EMS Brownout/Reboot: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=9CVoltage?=
Slump =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eliminator=9D?
From: "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2018
Thanks, Joe, youre very kind. Im just a hobbyist, not a pro. The glue is Bobs favorite, Shoe Goo, as it was taking an absurd length of time for an order of E6000 to arrive. Probably a better choice anyway, as it comes from the tube quite a bit thicker than E6000. The dimming you observed upon disconnecting power is because output from the capacitor bank passes through an additional diode, creating an immediate small voltage drop when the input slumps. Im glad to hear the device is working. I mailed one to Bob as well, and hes planning to do some instrumented tests when he has a chance; Im sure hell post the results here in due course. Hopefully it will live up to the hype! Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477079#477079 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gautier Riou" <chappyd(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 04, 2018
Subject: =?utf-8?B?4pyIUmU6IEFpcmxpbmVzIEZvciBBbWVyaWNh?
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Date: Jan 04, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Testing Battery Capacity...
At 04:12 PM 1/1/2018, you wrote: >Greetings, > >I've built up the capacity tester documented by >Bob N. in:=C2 ><http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf>http://www.aeroelectric.c om/articles/battest.pdf >and thought folks might want to see what it >looks like in the flesh.=C2 I've attached a >picture but let me know if it fails to show >up.=C2 Since I only get the digest version of the >postings, I won't get it (I never see any >attachments).=C2 If anyone else who gets the >digest want a copy, just email me direct with >the request and I'll send the pic back in my reply. Got it. Looks good! >The two resistors, the zener and the transistor >are all on the little piece of prototyping >circuit board zip-tied to the top of the >relay.=C2 For me it was easier to come up with a >3 ohm 100W power resistor than the 55W 12V lamp shown in Bob's schematic. Of course, that gives you an initial discharge ~4A at startup which tapers to ~3.66A at end of test. >I tested the 17AHr AGM battery (Werker, from >Batteries Plus) which I pulled out of my Longeze >this last summer (after two years of service) >and, at ~18 degreesF, it ran for 2hrs 35 minutes. Assuming an average drain of 3.8A x 2.6 hours yields 9.8 Ampere-Hours. Just for grins, let's go look at the specs on new Odyssey products Emacs! The PC535 (14.8 a.h. at 20 hour rate) will deliver about 12 a.h. at a 2.5 hour rate. This suggests that your existing battery delivers less snort than a new 15 a.h. battery. Comparing to a PC625 (18 a.h. at 20 hour rate), a 4A load should be supported for about 4 hours with a delivery of 15.6 a.h. Emacs! This is on example of how the po' boy's cap checker can be used to evaluate a battery . . . your test article is down to about 65% of new capacity. Time to toss in the towel. >=C2 I've yet to test the battery I replaced it with. Would like to see that data . . . >=C2 This is no where near long enough to match my >max duration (which is no surprise since my max >duration at economy cruise at altitude is almost >12 hrs...) but it good enough to provide enough options. Have you considered installing Z13/8? UNLIMITED endurance at 8A worth of system loads without up-sizing the existing battery. Thanks for sharing this! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Testing Battery Capacity...
>I tested the 17AHr AGM battery (Werker, from Batteries Plus) which I >pulled out of my Longeze this last summer (after two years of >service) and, at ~18 degreesF, it ran for 2hrs 35 minutes. Just noticed the temperature callout . . . this was battery temperature at the beginning of the test? You might want to put it on a precision charger/maintainer and retest at room temp . . . you may well see a lot of improvement. Bob . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Stearns <steve(at)tomasara.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2018
Subject: Testing battery capacity...
Bob said: You might want to put it on a precision charger/maintainer and retest at room temp . . . you may well see a lot of improvement. Well, in the longeze, my battery is in the nose and I fly at altitude where it is cold! So maybe this is a good test it realistic endurance. For battery life comparisons, a room temp standard sounds appropriate. Thanks, Steve. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2018
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Testing battery capacity...
At 07:06 AM 1/5/2018, you wrote: >Bob said: > >=C2 =C2 You might want to put it on a precision >=C2 =C2 charger/maintainer and retest at room >=C2 =C2 temp . . . you may well see a lot of >=C2 =C2 improvement. > >Well, in the longeze, my battery is in the nose >and I fly at altitude where it is cold! So maybe >this is a good test it realistic >endurance.=C2 For battery life comparisons, a >room temp standard sounds appropriate. Sounds like your airplane is a really good candidate for Z13/8! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net>
Date: Jan 05, 2018
Subject: Need GNS 480 and Navworx help
While doing my annual, I took time to run a wire from my 480 to the Navworx box. I fiddled with the 480 software to set it to the ADS-B out setting and did the same with Navworx to accept the 480 input. I rolled the plane out in to the subzero WI weather to view the GPS satellites and got nothing. The 480 wasnt talking to the 600B. I used: P1-6 for serial 3 out at 9600 from the 480 Pin 34 on the 600B UAT software 4.1 The 480 has the ADS-B out software installed In the 480 Ground Service Mode, there was no activity showing on Serial 3 in the monitor mode. Where am I going wrong? Sheldon Olesen RV-10 N475PV 791 hrs Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Need GNS 480 and Navworx help
Date: Jan 05, 2018
I do not know about the 480, but I had to connect two wires for the 430. Pin 34 with the GPS (ads-B out + setting on the 430) Pin 11 with time "time mark out" from the 430 Set the NAVWORX box to use the ads-b out + from the garmin, do not know what it was labeled as, but I think it was generic and not specific to the 430. Hope this helps in some way. Do you have the correct UAT version and date? The is more than one 4.1 floating around. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon Olesen Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 8:59 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need GNS 480 and Navworx help --> While doing my annual, I took time to run a wire from my 480 to the Navworx box. I fiddled with the 480 software to set it to the ADS-B out setting and did the same with Navworx to accept the 480 input. I rolled the plane out in to the subzero WI weather to view the GPS satellites and got nothing. The 480 wasnt talking to the 600B. I used: P1-6 for serial 3 out at 9600 from the 480 Pin 34 on the 600B UAT software 4.1 The 480 has the ADS-B out software installed In the 480 Ground Service Mode, there was no activity showing on Serial 3 in the monitor mode. Where am I going wrong? Sheldon Olesen RV-10 N475PV 791 hrs Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need GNS 480 and Navworx help
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2018
I haven't been following the 480 AMOC for position source discussion. I have successfully connected up my G430 to NAVWORX per the AMOC. To do so I had to 1) have the right version of the Navworx SW as Rene stated and 2) wire it up according to the latest Navworx manual. There seem to be at least 2 wires for all the Garmin connections and possibly 4 for the 480 (GPS data and Time Mark). Try this link for the manual I used - see page 74. Navworx Installation Manual Good luck. On 1/5/2018 10:58 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote: > > While doing my annual, I took time to run a wire from my 480 to the Navworx box. I fiddled with the 480 software to set it to the ADS-B out setting and did the same with Navworx to accept the 480 input. I rolled the plane out in to the subzero WI weather to view the GPS satellites and got nothing. The 480 wasnt talking to the 600B. > > I used: P1-6 for serial 3 out at 9600 from the 480 > Pin 34 on the 600B > UAT software 4.1 > The 480 has the ADS-B out software installed > > In the 480 Ground Service Mode, there was no activity showing on Serial 3 in the monitor mode. > > Where am I going wrong? > > Sheldon Olesen > RV-10 N475PV 791 hrs > > Sent from my iPad > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2018
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Need GNS 480 and Navworx help
Sheldon, I'm not the 480 expert when it comes to NavWorx - I think that's Phil Yoder (he got the 480 AMOC), but I think you need a timing signal (pins 1-17 and 1-19 on the 480 to pins 2 and 21 on the 600B) as well as the source which is ARINC (pins 5-5 and 5-25 on the 480 to pins 9 and 28 on the 600B)...according to my NavWorx Manual. Hope this helps, Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> >Sent: Jan 5, 2018 10:58 AM >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need GNS 480 and Navworx help > > >While doing my annual, I took time to run a wire from my 480 to the Navworx box. I fiddled with the 480 software to set it to the ADS-B out setting and did the same with Navworx to accept the 480 input. I rolled the plane out in to the subzero WI weather to view the GPS satellites and got nothing. The 480 wasnt talking to the 600B. > >I used: P1-6 for serial 3 out at 9600 from the 480 > Pin 34 on the 600B > UAT software 4.1 > The 480 has the ADS-B out software installed > >In the 480 Ground Service Mode, there was no activity showing on Serial 3 in the monitor mode. > >Where am I going wrong? > >Sheldon Olesen >RV-10 N475PV 791 hrs > >Sent from my iPad > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2018
Subject: Trying to ping Matt Dralle
Anyone know how Matt's doing? I've tried emailing him and calling the Matronics phone number for a couple of weeks (working on an issue with one of his fuel totalizers, but haven't gotten a response. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2018
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Trying to ping Matt Dralle
At 01:18 PM 1/5/2018 Friday, you wrote: >Anyone know how Matt's doing? I've tried emailing him and calling the Matronics phone number for a couple of weeks (working on an issue with one of his fuel totalizers, but haven't gotten a response. > >Thanks, > >Charlie I've been down hard with that flu that's been going around, been a bit unplugged. Replied to Charlie today. Matt Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trying to ping Matt Dralle
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2018
On 1/5/2018 5:13 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > At 01:18 PM 1/5/2018 Friday, you wrote: >> Anyone know how Matt's doing? I've tried emailing him and calling the Matronics phone number for a couple of weeks (working on an issue with one of his fuel totalizers, but haven't gotten a response. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charlie > > I've been down hard with that flu that's been going around, been a bit unplugged. > > Replied to Charlie today. > > Matt Got it, Matt, and I hope you're feeling better. Rough flu season this year. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need GNS 480 and Navworx help
From: "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2018
Sheldon, Just to confirm, when you say that your > 480 has the ADS-B out software installed does that mean you have the latest 2.4 software version on your unit? I ask because I've seen discussions on ADS-B vs ADS-B+ out there, and there seems to be confusion between the two. Version 2.3 will give you ADS-B, but to drive an S-mode transponder for ADS-B you need 2.4. Again, just double-checking. Cheers, Wade -------- Airdog Wade Parton Building Long-EZ N916WP www.longezpush.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477121#477121 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need GNS 480 and Navworx help
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2018
Garmin's software that output ADS-B did not fully meet the final rule, so they had to revise it and give it the name ADSB+. Your transponder has to have software that accepts ADS-B+, and your GPS has to have software to output ADS-B+. Without the plus it is not legal. So you have to determine which software version added that protocol for both the GPS and for the transponder. On 1/6/2018 10:46 AM, Airdog77 wrote: > > Sheldon, > > Just to confirm, when you say that your >> 480 has the ADS-B out software installed > does that mean you have the latest 2.4 software version on your unit? > > I ask because I've seen discussions on ADS-B vs ADS-B+ out there, and there seems to be confusion between the two. Version 2.3 will give you ADS-B, but to drive an S-mode transponder for ADS-B you need 2.4. > > Again, just double-checking. > > Cheers, > Wade > > -------- > Airdog > Wade Parton > Building Long-EZ N916WP > www.longezpush.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477121#477121 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gregg Sneek <sneekg(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 01/03/18
Date: Jan 06, 2018
Please remove me from your email list.thank you. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list -server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of AeroElectric-List Digest Server Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 1:30:38 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 01/03/18 * ======================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of th e two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text edito r such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version:


December 05, 2017 - January 07, 2018

AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-oe