AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-og
March 07, 2018 - April 04, 2018
> the pin and add a piece of heat shrink. If not, I'll try a dab of
> E6000.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 7:42 PM, C&K > wrote:
>
> >
>
> I find that E6000/shoe goo works as good or better than most
> sealants and is less invasive as long as significant corrosion
> hasn't started.
> Ken
>
> On 25/02/2018 6:04 PM, Charles Birdsall wrote:
>
> Art,
>
> What Charlie suggests is entirely adequate and as long as
> the wire strands themselves weren't damaged (the photo
> seems to indicate they aren't) then heat shrink will
> probably last longer than the radio.
>
> Having said that, I'm a perfectionist and on a new
> installation I'd replace the whole wire. If the whole run
> is a nightmare to replace, I'd splice in a new wire part
> way down the bundle - making the new wire long enough to
> get the butt splice into an area where both sides of the
> splice can be supported without putting undue strain on
> the wire/splice.
>
> If for some reason the pin can't be removed, an
> alternative would be to cut the wire at some handy point
> down the wire bundle and sliding the heat shrink back up
> the wire to the damaged point. Then butt-splice the wire
> back together. Choose the splice point somewhere along the
> bundle where both sides of the splice can be supported to
> minimize stress on the splice.
>
> Chuck
>
> On February 25, 2018 at 4:10 PM Art Zemon
> > wrote:
>
> Hmmm. Trying again with the photo...
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre
> typos.
>
> On Feb 25, 2018 4:48 PM, "Art Zemon" < art(at)zemon.name
> >> wrote:
>
> Ouch. I'm tying up the wires behind my panel and
> found this one
> with damaged insulation. It is the mic key wire on
> a com radio.
>
> Is there a way to repair it?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and
> bizarre typos.
>
>
> ==========
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Not receiving posts |
Has the list gone dark? All of a sudden I stopped receiving posts. I
checked the Matronics site to make sure I'm still subscribed and my email
account to make sure it wasn't inadvertently blocked. Anyone else having
this problem?
Rick
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut
m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Not receiving posts |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 07/03/2018 16:05, Richard Girard a crit:
/
> /Has the list gone dark? All of a sudden I stopped receiving posts. I
> checked the Matronics site to make sure I'm still subscribed and my
> email account to make sure it wasn't inadvertently blocked. Anyone
> else having this problem?/
>
Hi,
Same as you, nothing received since the last days of February.
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henry Roden <krazydoc33(at)gmail.com> |
Has everyone gone to sleep or is it just me that has seen no new messages
in the last week or so?
Henry
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
Still listening..just nothing to say. :)
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of Henry Roden
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 9:01 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Asleep?
Has everyone gone to sleep or is it just me that has seen no new
messages in the last week or so?
Henry
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> |
It=99s just you Henry!!
From: Henry Roden
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 11:04 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Asleep?
Has everyone gone to sleep or is it just me that has seen no new messages i
n the last week or so?
Henry
Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
I have not had any messages in a while.
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:00 AM, Henry Roden wrote:
> Has everyone gone to sleep or is it just me that has seen no new messages
> in the last week or so?
> Henry
>
>
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
>
> <#m_3007989193900063144_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
I think it's everyone. ..
On 07 Mar 2018 6:10 PM, "Henry Roden" wrote:
> Has everyone gone to sleep or is it just me that has seen no new messages
> in the last week or so?
> Henry
>
>
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
>
> <#m_-1156656574413284841_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Asleep...now waking up |
So then let me put a question out there. To do with using ECM's...on
automotive engine conversions...what kind of signal is derived from the
Lamda sensor?
What I am wondering is how one can influence mixture by changing the
feedback from said sensor to the ECM....IOW fooling it into changing the
mixture....say with a rheostat?
On 07 Mar 2018 6:19 PM, "Rene" wrote:
Still listening..just nothing to say. :)
Rene'
801-721-6080 <(801)%20721-6080>
*From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <
owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *Henry Roden
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 07, 2018 9:01 AM
*To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Asleep?
Has everyone gone to sleep or is it just me that has seen no new messages
in the last week or so?
Henry
Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yellowduckduo <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Asleep...now waking up |
It depends on the ECM and what sensor is being used.
Older narrow band sensors rapidly switch between about 0 volts and about 1
volt and the ecm generally will throw a fault code if it does not switch
back and forth quite frequently.
Newer units use wide band sensors that require fairly complex controllers
that often generate up to 5 volts output.
It is difficult to use any of the sensor modifications for long term
mixture control with an automotive ecm. They are smart enough to start
throwing fault codes and various limp modes if a signal is out of range for
very long.
Ken
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Bob Verwey wrote:
> So then let me put a question out there. To do with using ECM's...on
> automotive engine conversions...what kind of signal is derived from the
> Lamda sensor?
> What I am wondering is how one can influence mixture by changing the
> feedback from said sensor to the ECM....IOW fooling it into changing the
> mixture....say with a rheostat?
>
> On 07 Mar 2018 6:19 PM, "Rene" wrote:
>
> Still listening..just nothing to say. :)
>
>
> Rene'
>
> 801-721-6080 <(801)%20721-6080>
>
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *Henry Roden
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 07, 2018 9:01 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Asleep?
>
>
> Has everyone gone to sleep or is it just me that has seen no new messages
> in the last week or so?
>
> Henry
>
>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Asleep...now waking up |
Lead poisons the sensors fairly quickly for control use. =C2-It will rema
in useful for manual mixture control for quite a while, but the lead=C2-s
lows=C2-the response to changes. =C2-Most ECMs needs millisecond update
s to keep the mixture under control, but the lead will slow it to tenths of
seconds.
I use a narrowband gauge for mixture control, and that does work quite well
.
On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:29 PM, yellowduckduo wrote:
It depends on the ECM and what sensor is being used.
Older narrow band sensors rapidly switch between about 0 volts and about 1
volt and the ecm generally will throw a fault code if it does not switch ba
ck and forth quite frequently.
Newer units use wide band sensors that require fairly complex controllers t
hat often generate up to 5 volts output.
It is difficult to use any of the sensor modifications for long term mixtur
e control with an automotive ecm. They are smart enough to start throwing f
ault codes and various limp modes if a signal is out of range for very long
.
Ken
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Bob Verwey wrote:
So then let me put a question out there. To do with using ECM's...on automo
tive engine conversions...what kind of signal is derived from the Lamda sen
sor?=C2-=C2-What I am wondering is how one can influence mixture by cha
nging the feedback from said sensor to the ECM....IOW fooling it into chang
ing the mixture....say with a rheostat?=C2-
On 07 Mar 2018 6:19 PM, "Rene" wrote:
Still listening..just nothing to say.=C2- :)=C2-Rene'801-721-6
080=C2-From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server @matronics.com <owner-aeroele
ctric-list-serve r(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Henry Roden
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 9:01 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Asleep?=C2-Has everyone gone to sleep or is i
t just me that has seen no new messages in the last week or so?Henry=C2-
| | Virus-free. www.avast.com |
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Asleep...now waking up |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Before using a stock auto controller, ask yourself if you have the source c
ode and the software engineering chops to analyze & clean the code=2E Witho
ut both, you'll never know when the cpu will decide something isn't right &
go into limp home mode=2E
Charlie
On Mar 7, 2018, 12:34 PM, at 12:34 P
M, yellowduckduo wrote:
>It depends on the ECM
and what sensor is being used=2E
>Older narrow band sensors rapidly switch
between about 0 volts and
>about 1
>volt and the ecm generally will throw a
fault code if it does not
>switch
>back and forth quite frequently=2E
>
>N
ewer units use wide band sensors that require fairly complex
>controllers
>
that often generate up to 5 volts output=2E
>
>It is difficult to use any o
f the sensor modifications for long term
>mixture control with an automotiv
e ecm=2E They are smart enough to start
>throwing fault codes and various l
imp modes if a signal is out of range
>for
>very long=2E
>
>Ken
>
>On Wed,
Mar 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Bob Verwey
>wrote:
>
>>
So then let me put a question out there=2E To do with using ECM's=2E=2E=2E
on
>> automotive engine conversions=2E=2E=2Ewhat kind of signal is derived
from
>the
>> Lamda sensor?
>> What I am wondering is how one can influence
mixture by changing the
>> feedback from said sensor to the ECM=2E=2E=2E=2E
IOW fooling it into changing
>the
>> mixture=2E=2E=2E=2Esay with a rheostat
?
>>
>> On 07 Mar 2018 6:19 PM, "Rene" wrote:
>>
>> Sti
ll listening=2E=2Ejust nothing to say=2E :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Rene'
>>
>> 801-721-6080 <(801)%20721-6080>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-l
ist-server@matronics=2Ecom <
>> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics=2E
com> *On Behalf Of *Henry
>Roden
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 07, 2018 9:01
AM
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics=2Ecom
>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-Li
st: Asleep?
>>
>>
>>
>> Has everyone gone to sleep or is it just me that ha
s seen no new
>messages
>> in the last week or so?
>>
>> Henry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>>
>> Vi
rus-free=2E www=2Eavast=2Ecom
>>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trent Heidtke" <theidtke(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Asleep...now waking up |
It is true that lead fouls the sensor fairly quickly, probably less than
100 hours in my investigation and experience. That said a couple things
1. In my case I am using an Innovate Motorsports MTX-L gauge
paired with a wideband Bosch sensor. I have cleaned the sensor in MEK
once and recalibrated it once as well. This seems to extend the life by
a little bit but in the end, I have already planned for frequent sensor
replacement. I look at it as the cost of flying and for having chosen a
Mazda 3-Rotor with ECU controlled injectors (ala Tracy Crook).
2. Most =9Cmodern=9D ECUs will accept input from a
wideband sensor and =9Cself adjust=9D based on the readings.
Even the =9Cold school=9D Tracy Crook ECU actually does use
the O2 sensor input which makes programming it a little better. There
is a knob on his unit that allows manual mixture adjustments and it does
work but am not sure what electronics are involved in the process
(rheostat?)
3. Analog output (basically voltage) on my MTX-L (2 independent
channels/leads) is programmable and I have one wired to Tracy=99s
ECU and the other to the EFIS. Both are set to wideband 0v to 5v and
corresponding A/F ratio. NOTE =93 I am taking output
AFTER the gauge does what it does to the sensor signal. I gave up
trying to intercept the signal and do anything productive with
it
Not sure any of this helps, but for what it is worth, I am WAY happier
KNOWING my A/F mixture and making minor tweaks (again Tracy Crook EC3)
along the way.
Trent
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Asleep...now waking up
Lead poisons the sensors fairly quickly for control use. It will remain
useful for manual mixture control for quite a while, but the lead slows
the response to changes. Most ECMs needs millisecond updates to keep
the mixture under control, but the lead will slow it to tenths of
seconds.
I use a narrowband gauge for mixture control, and that does work quite
well.
On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:29 PM, yellowduckduo
wrote:
It depends on the ECM and what sensor is being used.
Older narrow band sensors rapidly switch between about 0 volts and about
1 volt and the ecm generally will throw a fault code if it does not
switch back and forth quite frequently.
Newer units use wide band sensors that require fairly complex
controllers that often generate up to 5 volts output.
It is difficult to use any of the sensor modifications for long term
mixture control with an automotive ecm. They are smart enough to start
throwing fault codes and various limp modes if a signal is out of range
for very long.
Ken
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Bob Verwey
wrote:
So then let me put a question out there. To do with using ECM's...on
automotive engine conversions...what kind of signal is derived from the
Lamda sensor?
What I am wondering is how one can influence mixture by changing the
feedback from said sensor to the ECM....IOW fooling it into changing the
mixture....say with a rheostat?
On 07 Mar 2018 6:19 PM, "Rene" wrote:
Still listening..just nothing to say. :)
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server @matronics.com
> On Behalf Of
Henry Roden
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 9:01 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Asleep?
Has everyone gone to sleep or is it just me that has seen no new
messages in the last week or so?
Henry
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Asleep...now waking up |
At 10:47 AM 3/7/2018, you wrote:
>So then let me put a question out there. To do
>with using ECM's...on automotive engine
>conversions...what kind of signal is derived from the Lamda sensor?=C2 =C2
>What I am wondering is how one can influence
>mixture by changing the feedback from said
>sensor to the ECM....IOW fooling it into
>changing the mixture....say with a rheostat?=C2
The 'lambda sensor' detects the presense
of oxygen in the engine's exhaust gasses.
It outputs a 0-1000 millivolt level DC signal
that is indicative of oxygen the exhaust
stream.
Here's a general run-down on the technology
and practice.
https://goo.gl/dKy9JW
Depending on which type of O2 sensors
are in your system, they'll present
a voltage on the order of 450 millvolts
at stoichiometric fuel mixture. You
can 'spoof' the signal into the ECM
by applying a 'bias current' to the sensor's
output . . . the magnitude depends on the
sensor's output impedance.
I wasn't able to find any mention of output
impedance for these devices . . . but it
isn't difficult to measure. Is your system
installed and running?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 1/4 watt Panasonic resistors |
| From: | "dj_theis" <djtheis58(at)gmail.com> |
I am building the Audio Isolation Amplifier detailed on the Aeroelectric Connection.
I purchased some of the residual boards from Bob Nuckolls in late 2017.
It's been a while since I've done any board level work but I have enough self
confidence (justified or not) and experience to not have many concerns with
the project.
Anyway, a recent shoulder surgery provided the "free time" to stop working on my
plane and spend some quality time with a soldering iron. I ordered components
from Digikey and received the completed order in just a few days. I was surprised
to find the 1/4 watt resistors appear to be (what I remember from years
past) as about the size of 1/8 resistors (i.e. just under 4 mm in length).
These are mostly Panasonic resistors and when I go to the Panasonic datasheet (also
available on the Digikey site) the specification shows that yes, their 1/4
resistors are about the size of what I recall (from years back) as being 1/8
watt resistors.
So, what gives? Every reference I find on the "web" (other than the Panasonic
specification document) shows 1/4 watt resistors about the size of what they were
when I last visited a "walk in" Radio Shack store (6 to 8 mm long).
I don't want to go through the trouble of assembling the amplifier if I'm just
making an expensive smoke generator.
Any comments the forum can provide would be much appreciated.
Dan Theis.
Sonex 1362
Plans building and enjoying every year of it...
--------
Scratch building Sonex #1362
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478491#478491
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1/4 watt Panasonic resistors |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Could be something other than traditional carbon=2E I wouldn't worry about
it=2E Most of them could probably be smaller than 1/8 watt, anyway=2E
Char
lie
On Mar 7, 2018, 8:50 PM, at 8:50 PM, dj_theis wrote:
>
>
>I am building the Audio Isolation Amplifier detailed on the
>Aeroelectric Connection=2E I purchased some of the residual boards from
>
Bob Nuckolls in late 2017=2E It's been a while since I've done any
>board
level work but I have enough self confidence (justified or not)
>and exper
ience to not have many concerns with the project=2E
>
>Anyway, a recent sho
ulder surgery provided the "free time" to stop
>working on my plane and spe
nd some quality time with a soldering iron=2E
>I ordered components from D
igikey and received the completed order in
>just a few days=2E I was surp
rised to find the 1/4 watt resistors appear
>to be (what I remember from ye
ars past) as about the size of 1/8
>resistors (i=2Ee=2E just under 4 mm in
length)=2E
>
>These are mostly Panasonic resistors and when I go to the P
anasonic
>datasheet (also available on the Digikey site) the specification
shows
>that yes, their 1/4 resistors are about the size of what I recall (f
rom
>years back) as being 1/8 watt resistors=2E
>
>So, what gives? Every r
eference I find on the "web" (other than the
>Panasonic specification docum
ent) shows 1/4 watt resistors about the
>size of what they were when I last
visited a "walk in" Radio Shack
>store (6 to 8 mm long)=2E
>
>I don't want
to go through the trouble of assembling the amplifier if
>I'm just making
an expensive smoke generator=2E
>
>Any comments the forum can provide would
be much appreciated=2E
>
>Dan Theis=2E
>
>Sonex 1362
>Plans building and e
njoying every year of it=2E=2E=2E
>
>--------
>Scratch building Sonex #1362
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom/v
iewtopic=2Ephp?p=478491#478491
>
>
tronics List Features Navigator to browse
ch as List Un/Subscription,
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================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1/4 watt Panasonic resistors |
At 07:45 PM 3/7/2018, you wrote:
>
>I am building the Audio Isolation Amplifier detailed on the
>Aeroelectric Connection. I purchased some of the residual boards
>from Bob Nuckolls in late 2017. It's been a while since I've done
>any board level work but I have enough self confidence (justified or
>not) and experience to not have many concerns with the project.
>
>Anyway, a recent shoulder surgery provided the "free time" to stop
>working on my plane and spend some quality time with a soldering
>iron. I ordered components from Digikey and received the completed
>order in just a few days. I was surprised to find the 1/4 watt
>resistors appear to be (what I remember from years past) as about
>the size of 1/8 resistors (i.e. just under 4 mm in length).
>
>These are mostly Panasonic resistors and when I go to the Panasonic
>datasheet (also available on the Digikey site) the specification
>shows that yes, their 1/4 resistors are about the size of what I
>recall (from years back) as being 1/8 watt resistors.
Materials for fabricating components have
evolved over the years and many components
have become smaller for their dissipation
ratings. In any case, NONE of the resistors
in the amplifier are thermally challenged . . .
what ever you can find that fits into the
slot on the board will be fine.
Let us know how it works out for you.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skip <cardinalnsb(at)aol.com> |
Althought I was the first in town to have and build a pc, I am sadly out of touch
with current technology. I have been reading the automotive boards, people
are putting in mini computer systems with a tablet monitor and running everything,
even the electric seats. So my question here, has anyone any information
on putting together an inexpensive tablet based system for experimentals? I
just bought a 10 inch from Walmart for $60, runs android, wifi, bluetooth.
I would think it could display a gps, engine instruments, Stormy Daniels, and other
stuff cheaply.
Cell technology tablets aren't much more, that would keep it connected at all times?
Can you get cheap weather radar on your cell phone?
Yes, hopelessly out of date.
Thoughts?
Skip
cardinalnsb(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: diy tablet efi |
| From: | chris <csmale(at)bak.rr.com> |
look at speeduino. do a google search csmale(at)bak.rr.com
On 03/08/2018 08:34 AM, Skip wrote:
> Althought I was the first in town to have and build a pc, I am sadly
> out of touch with current technology. I have been reading the
> automotive boards, people are putting in mini computer systems with a
> tablet monitor and running everything, even the electric seats. So my
> question here, has anyone any information on putting together an
> inexpensive tablet based system for experimentals? I just bought a 10
> inch from Walmart for $60, runs android, wifi, bluetooth.
>
> I would think it could display a gps, engine instruments, Stormy
> Daniels, and other stuff cheaply.
>
> Cell technology tablets aren't much more, that would keep it connected
> at all times? Can you get cheap weather radar on your cell phone?
>
> Yes, hopelessly out of date.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Skip
> cardinalnsb(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: diy tablet efi |
Look on the google PlayStore for Avare.
It's free and open source.=C2- There is a software control radio module y
ou can get for about $20, that will allow you to get ADSB-IN.=C2- I have
used it, and I works well.
On Thursday, March 8, 2018 12:58 PM, chris wrote:
look at speeduino. do a google search=C2-=C2-=C2- csmale(at)bak.rr.co
m
On 03/08/2018 08:34 AM, Skip wrote:
Althought I was the first in town to have and build a pc, I am sadly out of
touch with current technology.=C2- I have been reading the automotive bo
ards, people are putting in mini computer systems with a tablet monitor and
running everything, even the electric seats.=C2- So my question here, ha
s anyone any information on putting together an inexpensive tablet based sy
stem for experimentals?=C2- I just bought a 10 inch from Walmart for $60,
runs android, wifi, bluetooth.
I would think it could display a gps, engine instruments, Stormy Daniels,
and other stuff cheaply.
Cell technology tablets aren't much more, that would keep it connected at
all times?=C2- Can you get cheap weather radar on your cell phone?
Yes, hopelessly out of date.
Thoughts?
Skip
cardinalnsb(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Ashton" <ashtonb(at)ared.net> |
I would start by splitting your learning into two groups: navigation and
ECU/engine monitoring.
These tips and links should get you started on the ECU for aircraft.
They are from an engine manufacturer. I am just learning myself so I
can=99t help you beyond what has been passed on to me:
Use microsquirt, not megasquirt
Don=99t use d sub connectors
Go with AMP seal connector
Ultra version has the AMP seal connector stock
#1 failure is the connector
Use single board ECU=99s as Piggy back boards make more connectors
and so more points of failure
They all use the same processor and firmware
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/other/displays-data/
http://www.msdroid.com/
http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Megasquirt_Serial_Protocol-2014-10-28.pdf
http://www.tunerstudio.com/index.php/tuner-studio
http://www.microsquirt.com/
http://megasquirt.info/products/pro-controllers/microsquirt/
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: diy tablet efi
Look on the google PlayStore for Avare.
It's free and open source. There is a software control radio module you
can get for about $20, that will allow you to get ADSB-IN. I have used
it, and I works well.
On Thursday, March 8, 2018 12:58 PM, chris > wrote:
look at speeduino. do a google search csmale(at)bak.rr.com
On 03/08/2018 08:34 AM, Skip wrote:
Althought I was the first in town to have and build a pc, I am sadly out
of touch with current technology. I have been reading the automotive
boards, people are putting in mini computer systems with a tablet
monitor and running everything, even the electric seats. So my question
here, has anyone any information on putting together an inexpensive
tablet based system for experimentals? I just bought a 10 inch from
Walmart for $60, runs android, wifi, bluetooth.
I would think it could display a gps, engine instruments, Stormy
Daniels, and other stuff cheaply.
Cell technology tablets aren't much more, that would keep it connected
at all times? Can you get cheap weather radar on your cell phone?
Yes, hopelessly out of date.
Thoughts?
Skip
cardinalnsb(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1/4 watt Panasonic resistors |
| From: | Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
These days most new quarter watt resistors are of metal film composition
and are of a size more akin to the 1/8 watters of a few years ago. They
tend to be of tighter tolerance too, thanks to the mode of manufacture
but fortunately are still cheap.
Bill
On 9/03/2018 3:20 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 07:45 PM 3/7/2018, you wrote:
>>
>> I am building the Audio Isolation Amplifier detailed on the
>> Aeroelectric Connection. I purchased some of the residual boards
>> from Bob Nuckolls in late 2017. It's been a while since I've done
>> any board level work but I have enough self confidence (justified or
>> not) and experience to not have many concerns with the project.
>>
>> Anyway, a recent shoulder surgery provided the "free time" to stop
>> working on my plane and spend some quality time with a soldering
>> iron. I ordered components from Digikey and received the completed
>> order in just a few days. I was surprised to find the 1/4 watt
>> resistors appear to be (what I remember from years past) as about the
>> size of 1/8 resistors (i.e. just under 4 mm in length).
>>
>> These are mostly Panasonic resistors and when I go to the Panasonic
>> datasheet (also available on the Digikey site) the specification
>> shows that yes, their 1/4 resistors are about the size of what I
>> recall (from years back) as being 1/8 watt resistors.
>
> Materials for fabricating components have
> evolved over the years and many components
> have become smaller for their dissipation
> ratings. In any case, NONE of the resistors
> in the amplifier are thermally challenged . . .
> what ever you can find that fits into the
> slot on the board will be fine.
>
> Let us know how it works out for you.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: diy tablet efi |
| From: | Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
There are a few projects that I have come across on the net, Skip
althoughI can't find any links at the the moment. One problem with the
pad based approach though is the visibility of the TFT screen in bright
sunlight. The tablets using oled (also known as amoled) TFT s displays
are the best in this regard but not many manufacturers are using them.
Samsung were a couple of years ago but even they seem to have now
followed the general market trend and discontinued them.
On 9/03/2018 3:34 AM, Skip wrote:
> Althought I was the first in town to have and build a pc, I am sadly
> out of touch with current technology. I have been reading the
> automotive boards, people are putting in mini computer systems with a
> tablet monitor and running everything, even the electric seats. So my
> question here, has anyone any information on putting together an
> inexpensive tablet based system for experimentals? I just bought a 10
> inch from Walmart for $60, runs android, wifi, bluetooth.
>
> I would think it could display a gps, engine instruments, Stormy
> Daniels, and other stuff cheaply.
>
> Cell technology tablets aren't much more, that would keep it connected
> at all times? Can you get cheap weather radar on your cell phone?
>
> Yes, hopelessly out of date.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Skip
> cardinalnsb(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: diy tablet efi |
I spent quite a bit of time last year using a Android tablet and a Android
phone (Samsung 5) for navigation.=C2- Granted, my canopy is tinted, but I
never had an issue with the sun being to bright to use them.
On Thursday, March 8, 2018 4:18 PM, Bill Maxwell wrote:
There are a few projects that I have come across on the net, Skip althou
ghI can't find any links at the the moment. One problem with the pad based
approach though is the visibility of the TFT screen in bright sunlight. The
tablets using oled (also known as amoled) TFT s displays are the best in t
his regard but not many manufacturers are using them. Samsung were a couple
of years ago but even they seem to have now followed the general market tr
end and discontinued them.
On 9/03/2018 3:34 AM, Skip wrote:
Althought I was the first in town to have and build a pc, I am sadly out of
touch with current technology.=C2- I have been reading the automotive bo
ards, people are putting in mini computer systems with a tablet monitor and
running everything, even the electric seats.=C2- So my question here, ha
s anyone any information on putting together an inexpensive tablet based sy
stem for experimentals?=C2- I just bought a 10 inch from Walmart for $60,
runs android, wifi, bluetooth.
I would think it could display a gps, engine instruments, Stormy Daniels,
and other stuff cheaply.
Cell technology tablets aren't much more, that would keep it connected at
all times?=C2- Can you get cheap weather radar on your cell phone?
Yes, hopelessly out of date.
Thoughts?
Skip
cardinalnsb(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: diy tablet efi |
| From: | "andymeyer" <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com> |
Skip,
I'm working on an Arduino based system that will put everything up on one or two
2.8" touch screens - I am squeezing this into a Long EZ so space is a premium.
It'll replace my tach and EOP/EOT gauges as far as location.
It'll do full engine monitoring (put some of the commercial systems to shame),
air data, economy and performance, and a handful of other things while I'm at
it. I'm a bit of an engine geek and learning the electronics side of it.
If you'd like to learn more, I'm more than willing to share what I'm doing...
Andy
meyerf16
gmail...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478520#478520
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: diy tablet efi |
| From: | Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
I think the Samsung 5 phone has the better amoled screen. What screen
type does your tablet have?
On 9/03/2018 2:24 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
> I spent quite a bit of time last year using a Android tablet and a
> Android phone (Samsung 5) for navigation. Granted, my canopy is
> tinted, but I never had an issue with the sun being to bright to use them.
>
>
> On Thursday, March 8, 2018 4:18 PM, Bill Maxwell
> wrote:
>
>
> There are a few projects that I have come across on the net, Skip
> althoughI can't find any links at the the moment. One problem with the
> pad based approach though is the visibility of the TFT screen in
> bright sunlight. The tablets using oled (also known as amoled) TFT s
> displays are the best in this regard but not many manufacturers are
> using them. Samsung were a couple of years ago but even they seem to
> have now followed the general market trend and discontinued them.
>
> On 9/03/2018 3:34 AM, Skip wrote:
>> Althought I was the first in town to have and build a pc, I am sadly
>> out of touch with current technology. I have been reading the
>> automotive boards, people are putting in mini computer systems with a
>> tablet monitor and running everything, even the electric seats. So
>> my question here, has anyone any information on putting together an
>> inexpensive tablet based system for experimentals? I just bought a
>> 10 inch from Walmart for $60, runs android, wifi, bluetooth.
>>
>> I would think it could display a gps, engine instruments, Stormy
>> Daniels, and other stuff cheaply.
>>
>> Cell technology tablets aren't much more, that would keep it
>> connected at all times? Can you get cheap weather radar on your cell
>> phone?
>>
>> Yes, hopelessly out of date.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> Skip
>> cardinalnsb(at)aol.com
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the
main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all
the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans
on and off) can be set.
Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders
idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently
of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat
circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?
Thanks in advance
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
What thermostat are you using. I think I would like to do the same
thing. I only have a switch and I am using Rene=99 as the
thermostat.
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of Roger
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:03 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
Carlos,
Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel.
When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the
fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on
the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you
have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the
fan.
Roger
Sent from Mail for
Windows 10
From: Carlos Trigo <mailto:trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard,
with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument
panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn
the fans on and off) can be set.
Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow
builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield
interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans
independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the
thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?
Thanks in advance
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
Thanks Roger
My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin
something inside the thermostat.
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:02, Roger escreveu:
> Carlos,
>
> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel.=C3=82
When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fa
n, no matter the position of the defrost switch.=C3=82 Also if you turn on t
he defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off.=C3=82 If you h
ave two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.
>
> Roger
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Carlos Trigo
> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
pt>
>
> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, wi
th the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to
keep all the panel electronics happy.
> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn t
he fans on and off) can be set.
>
> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow bui
lders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior su
rface.
> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans indep
endently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>
> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the the
rmostat circuit?
> Do I have to use a diode?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> |
A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat. It consists of a
bimetal strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch contacts.
I am not aware of any thermostat that would be harmed by paralleling it w
ith a switch. What thermostat are you using?
Roger
From: Carlos Trigo
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
Thanks Roger
My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would rui
n something inside the thermostat.
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:02, Roger escreveu:
Carlos,
=C2-
Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel.=C3=82
=C2- When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on
the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch.=C3=82=C2- Also if
you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off.
=C3=82=C2- If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on wi
ll power up the fan.
=C2-
Roger
=C2-
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
=C2-
From: Carlos Trigo
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
=C2-
t>
=C2-
In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, wit
h the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to
keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn th
e fans on and off) can be set.
=C2-
Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow buil
ders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior su
rface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans indepe
ndently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
=C2-
Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the ther
mostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?
=C2-
Thanks in advance
Carlos
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A R Goldman <argoldman(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a frosted
windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated additionally the air
conditioner compressor is activated (temperature permitting) to reduce mois
ture. Your body is constantly creating moisture ( primarily through respirat
ion and sweating) this condenses on the inside of your windscreen under cert
ain conditions. Unheated blown air will have little effect. It will have les
s effect on ice on the outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.
Keep cool (warm)
Rich
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 9, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Thanks Roger
>
> My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ru
in something inside the thermostat.
>
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>
> No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:02, Roger escreveu:
>
>> Carlos,
>>
>> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel.=C3=82
When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the f
an, no matter the position of the defrost switch.=C3=82 Also if you turn on
the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off.=C3=82 If yo
u have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan
.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Carlos Trigo
>> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>>
.pt>
>>
>> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, w
ith the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel t
o keep all the panel electronics happy.
>> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn t
he fans on and off) can be set.
>>
>> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow bu
ilders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior s
urface.
>> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans inde
pendently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>>
>> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the th
ermostat circuit?
>> Do I have to use a diode?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: diy tablet efi |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
If you need to keep it cheap, both the old Nexus 7 models=C2- have very b
right, hi res screens=2E Cheap if bought used on ebay=2E Avare & that SDR A
DSB receiver work great on them=2E
Charlie
On Mar 9, 2018, 4:48 PM, at
4:48 PM, Bill Maxwell wrote:
>I think the Samsun
g 5 phone has the better amoled screen=2E What screen
>type does your tabl
et have?
>
>
>On 9/03/2018 2:24 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
>> I spent quit
e a bit of time last year using a Android tablet and a
>> Android phone (S
amsung 5) for navigation=2E=C2- Granted, my canopy is
>> tinted, but I n
ever had an issue with the sun being to bright to use
>them=2E
>>
>>
>> On
Thursday, March 8, 2018 4:18 PM, Bill Maxwell
>>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> There are a few projects that I have come across on the ne
t, Skip
>> althoughI can't find any links at the the moment=2E One problem
with
>the
>> pad based approach though is the visibility of the TFT scree
n in
>> bright sunlight=2E The tablets using oled (also known as amoled) T
FT s
>> displays are the best in this regard but not many manufacturers ar
e
>> using them=2E Samsung were a couple of years ago but even they seem t
o
>> have now followed the general market trend and discontinued them=2E
>
>
>> On 9/03/2018 3:34 AM, Skip wrote:
>>> Althought I was the first in tow
n to have and build a pc, I am sadly
>
>>> out of touch with current techno
logy=2E=C2- I have been reading the
>>> automotive boards, people are pu
tting in mini computer systems with
>a
>>> tablet monitor and running ever
ything, even the electric seats=2E=C2- So
>>> my question here, has anyo
ne any information on putting together an
>>> inexpensive tablet based sys
tem for experimentals?=C2- I just bought a
>>> 10 inch from Walmart for
$60, runs android, wifi, bluetooth=2E
>>>
>>> I would think it could displa
y a gps, engine instruments, Stormy
>>> Daniels, and other stuff cheaply
=2E
>>>
>>> Cell technology tablets aren't much more, that would keep it
>
>> connected at all times?=C2- Can you get cheap weather radar on your
>c
ell
>>> phone?
>>>
>>> Yes, hopelessly out of date=2E
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>
>
>>>
>>> Skip
>>> cardinalnsb@aol=2Ecom
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
The air is heated by the electronics, the cabin heater, and the RV-10
tunnel heat. Worked every time I needed it..but I do live in a
desert
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A R
Goldman
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a
frosted windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated
additionally the air conditioner compressor is activated (temperature
permitting) to reduce moisture. Your body is constantly creating
moisture ( primarily through respiration and sweating) this condenses on
the inside of your windscreen under certain conditions. Unheated blown
air will have little effect. It will have less effect on ice on the
outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.
Keep cool (warm)
Rich
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Carlos Trigo > wrote:
Thanks Roger
My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would
ruin something inside the thermostat.
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:02, Roger > escreveu:
Carlos,
Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in
parallel.=C3=82 When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat
will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost
switch.=C3=82 Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay
on until you turn it off.=C3=82 If you have two switches in parallel,
either one or both on will power up the fan.
Roger
Sent from Mail for
Windows 10
From: Carlos Trigo <mailto:trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard,
with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument
panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn
the fans on and off) can be set.
Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow
builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield
interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans
independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the
thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?
Thanks in advance
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
At the other end of the spectrum, I live in Canada, and did several flights this
winter with temperatures in the -25C to -30C range. I have the same configuration
- just a couple of computer fans mounted in the glare shield, whose purpose
is to blow air from behind the instrument panel, where the air is heated
from the instruments and cabin heat output by the feet.
I can say that at least in my case, it's worked perfectly. If the cabin is kept
reasonably warm through cabin heat, which is what you'd want to do anyway, it
doesn't have any problem keeping the windshield clear in my RV10. The only
case where heated blown air might have helped is during runup and initial taxi
before the engine has gotten warm enough to heat things up sufficiently. But
when underway, the windshield has remained perfectly clear (not the same to be
said of the side windows that didn't have the fans blowing on them - they tend
to get quite icy in those conditions).
One thing working in my favour is our winters are typically exceptionally dry,
so the humidity of the air is very low - with the exception of the humidity generated
by the occupants.
Dan
> On 2018-Mar-09, at 7:05 PM, Rene Felker wrote:
>
> The air is heated by the electronics, the cabin heater, and the RV-10 tunnel
heat. Worked every time I needed it..but I do live in a desert
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A R Goldman
> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:01 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
> So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a frosted
windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated additionally the air conditioner
compressor is activated (temperature permitting) to reduce moisture.
Your body is constantly creating moisture ( primarily through respiration and
sweating) this condenses on the inside of your windscreen under certain conditions.
Unheated blown air will have little effect. It will have less effect on
ice on the outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.
>
> Keep cool (warm)
>
> Rich
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 9, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
>> Thanks Roger
>>
>> My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin
something inside the thermostat.
>>
>>
>> Enviado do meu iPhone
>>
>> No dia 09/03/2018, s 23:02, Roger escreveu:
>>
>>> Carlos,
>>>
>>> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the
electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter
the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch
the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel,
either one or both on will power up the fan.
>>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>
>>> From: Carlos Trigo
>>> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
>>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>>>
>>>
>>> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with
the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep
all the panel electronics happy.
>>> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the
fans on and off) can be set.
>>>
>>> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders
idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
>>> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently
of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>>>
>>> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat
circuit?
>>> Do I have to use a diode?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
Ren=C3=A9
I am using the 12V version of a very cheap Chinese thing called XH-W3001
I have tested it with my fingers temperature and it works very well.
The only problem is that I cannot find its schematic and neither you or I ca
n read the characteristics
but mr. Google will show you plenty of videos in English explaining how it w
orks and how you set the temperatures
Cheers
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:13, Rene escreveu:
> What thermostat are you using. I think I would like to do the same thing.
I only have a switch and I am using Rene=99 as the thermostat.
>
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Roger
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:03 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
> Carlos,
>
> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When t
he electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no m
atter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost s
witch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches i
n parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.
>
> Roger
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Carlos Trigo
> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
pt>
>
> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, wi
th the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to
keep all the panel electronics happy.
> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn t
he fans on and off) can be set.
>
> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow bui
lders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior su
rface.
> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans indep
endently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>
> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the the
rmostat circuit?
> Do I have to use a diode?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
Roger
I am using the XH-W3001 that you can see in my previous post to Ren=C3=A9.
It has a small contactor (relay) which serves as the thermostat switch.
Again, if I parallel the manual defrost switch with the thermostat, my fear i
s what will happen when I turn on the manual switch when the thermostat cont
actor is closed.
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:54, Roger escreveu:
> A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat. It consists of a
bimetal strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch contacts.
I am not aware of any thermostat that would be harmed by paralleling it wi
th a switch. What thermostat are you using?
>
> Roger
>
> From: Carlos Trigo
> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
> Thanks Roger
>
> My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ru
in something inside the thermostat.
>
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>
> No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:02, Roger escreveu:
>
> Carlos,
>
> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel.=C3=82
When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fa
n, no matter the position of the defrost switch.=C3=82 Also if you turn on t
he defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off.=C3=82 If you h
ave two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.
>
> Roger
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Carlos Trigo
> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
pt>
>
> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, wi
th the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to
keep all the panel electronics happy.
> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn t
he fans on and off) can be set.
>
> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow bui
lders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior su
rface.
> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans indep
endently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>
> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the the
rmostat circuit?
> Do I have to use a diode?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
| From: | "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com> |
argoldman(at)aol.com wrote:
> So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a frosted
windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated additionally the air conditioner
compressor is activated (temperature permitting) to reduce moisture.
Your body is constantly creating moisture ( primarily through respiration and
sweating) this condenses on the inside of your windscreen under certain conditions.
Unheated blown air will have little effect. It will have less effect on
ice on the outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.
>
> Keep cool (warm)
>
> Rich
>
Rich, I hate to disagree, but I have fitted three small computer fans in the top
cowling of my Europa control panel. See attached photos. I have just completed
the test flying of the aircraft, and these three fans kept the pilots side
of the windscreen pretty clear, while my side (passenger/observer) was constantly
misted up, and I was forever having to wipe the screen to clear it. This was
in February weather in the UK (i.e. cold !), so I guess body heat was causing
the condensation. Those familiar with the Europa will know that the control
panel only stretches to three quarters the width of the cockpit, hence I wasn't
able to position a fan for the passenger side, or I would have. As my panel
is fully electronic, I guess the air being blown over the windscreen is partially
heated by the output from the electronics.
Just as an aside, I changed the fan covers to brown (rather than white) having
picked up a tip on here that using dark covers prevented/reduced reflections on
the windscreen.
Just my tuppence worth :D
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478542#478542
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2017_09_04_153531_224.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/demisters2_554.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: diy tablet efi |
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
I have to agree with what Charlie suggested! It is EXACTLY the
combination that I have for my Long EZ! Have also used the Nexus with
Google Maps to guide me and my truck for long trips on the ground both
here in the east and in the southern deserts of Arizona. Very happy with
it. And very visible in bright daylight.
Additionally, Avare can be set up to "fly" at home by reading GPS data
from the X-Plane simulator (to do that, you have to install an Avare
plug-in app that reads X-Plane and sends the data via Wi-Fi to Avare).
During these cold winter months, I've successfully made 12 hour cross
country flights with my simulated Long EZ while sitting right here next
to my computer!
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
Canandaigua, NY
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/9/2018 8:47 PM, Charlie England wrote:
> If you need to keep it cheap, both the old Nexus 7 models have very
> bright, hi res screens. Cheap if bought used on ebay. Avare & that SDR
> ADSB receiver work great on them.
>
> Charlie
> On Mar 9, 2018, at 4:48 PM, Bill Maxwell > wrote:
>
> I think the Samsung 5 phone has the better amoled screen. What
> screen type does your tablet have?
>
>
> On 9/03/2018 2:24 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
>> I spent quite a bit of time last year using a Android tablet and
>> a Android phone (Samsung 5) for navigation. Granted, my canopy is
>> tinted, but I never had an issue with the sun being to bright to
>> use them.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, March 8, 2018 4:18 PM, Bill Maxwell
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> There are a few projects that I have come across on the net, Skip
>> althoughI can't find any links at the the moment. One problem
>> with the pad based approach though is the visibility of the TFT
>> screen in bright sunlight. The tablets using oled (also known as
>> amoled) TFT s displays are the best in this regard but not many
>> manufacturers are using them. Samsung were a couple of years ago
>> but even they seem to have now followed the general market trend
>> and discontinued them.
>>
>> On 9/03/2018 3:34 AM, Skip wrote:
>>> Althought I was the first in town to have and build a pc, I am
>>> sadly out of touch with current technology. I have been reading
>>> the automotive boards, people are putting in mini computer
>>> systems with a tablet monitor and running everything, even the
>>> electric seats. So my question here, has anyone any information
>>> on putting together an inexpensive tablet based system for
>>> experimentals? I just bought a 10 inch from Walmart for $60,
>>> runs android, wifi, bluetooth.
>>>
>>> I would think it could display a gps, engine instruments, Stormy
>>> Daniels, and other stuff cheaply.
>>>
>>> Cell technology tablets aren't much more, that would keep it
>>> connected at all times? Can you get cheap weather radar on your
>>> cell phone?
>>>
>>> Yes, hopelessly out of date.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>> Skip
>>> cardinalnsb(at)aol.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> |
As noted earlier, by another poster, you can google this device and get a m
anual and a youtube video. It appears that the output is not just open rel
ay contacts, but it supplies power, so don=99t put a switch across it
. You could take the output to a 12V relay and then use the relay contacts
, parallel with a toggle switch, to turn on the fan, as I had suggested in
a previous post. There are other solutions, but this is a simple addition
of a relay and a switch.
Roger
From: Carlos Trigo
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
Roger
I am using the XH-W3001 that you can see in my previous post to Ren=C3=A9.
It has a small contactor (relay) which serves as the thermostat switch.
Again, if I parallel the manual defrost switch with the thermostat, my fear
is what will happen when I turn on the manual switch when the thermostat c
ontactor is closed.
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:54, Roger escreveu:
A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat.=C2- It consists
of a bimetal strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch cont
acts.=C2- I am not aware of any thermostat that would be harmed by parall
eling it with a switch.=C2- What thermostat are you using?
=C2-
Roger
=C2-
From: Carlos Trigo
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
=C2-
Thanks Roger
=C2-
My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would rui
n something inside the thermostat.
=C2-
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:02, Roger escreveu:
Carlos,
=C2-
Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel.=C3=82
=C2- When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on
the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch.=C3=82=C2- Also if
you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off.
=C3=82=C2- If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on wi
ll power up the fan.
=C2-
Roger
=C2-
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
=C2-
From: Carlos Trigo
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
=C2-
t>
=C2-
In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, wit
h the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to
keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn th
e fans on and off) can be set.
=C2-
Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow buil
ders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior su
rface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans indepe
ndently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
=C2-
Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the ther
mostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?
=C2-
Thanks in advance
Carlos
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
I find no need or interest In a defrost switch or fan thermostat in my RV10.
My opinion is that you will want the fan on all the time either way, so mi
ne come on with the master. In the summer you=99ll want to exhaust th
e heat from avionics as best you can, and in the winter you=99ll want c
onstant defrost. There is no reason to even put a switch on them. I prefer t
o have them come on with the master because it is the best reminder that you
left the master on in the first place. On my first plane I did that. On m
y second I was temporarily hit with stupidity and did not have it on the rig
ht bus and ended up completely killing 2 batteries during the first year by f
orgetting to turn off the master during database maintenance on the EFISs
=99.
Once i killed the second battery I fixed that issue and now if I forget I ha
ve an audible reminder to turn off the darn switch and don=99t forget a
nymore.
But really, there is no time you will ever not want fans. Think about it...
do you EVER want hear buildup under the panel? Even in the winter my avioni
cs need cooling because it=99s well over 90F under the panel when the h
eat is turned on.
Keep it simple.
Tim
> On Mar 10, 2018, at 7:56 AM, Roger wrote:
>
> As noted earlier, by another poster, you can google this device and get a m
anual and a youtube video. It appears that the output is not just open rela
y contacts, but it supplies power, so don=99t put a switch across it.
You could take the output to a 12V relay and then use the relay contacts, p
arallel with a toggle switch, to turn on the fan, as I had suggested in a p
revious post. There are other solutions, but this is a simple addition of a
relay and a switch.
>
> Roger
>
> From: Carlos Trigo
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:55 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
> Roger
>
> I am using the XH-W3001 that you can see in my previous post to Ren=C3=A9.
>
> It has a small contactor (relay) which serves as the thermostat switch.
> Again, if I parallel the manual defrost switch with the thermostat, my fea
r is what will happen when I turn on the manual switch when the thermostat c
ontactor is closed.
>
> Carlos
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>
> No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:54, Roger escreveu:
>
> A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat. It consists of a
bimetal strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch contacts.
I am not aware of any thermostat that would be harmed by paralleling it wi
th a switch. What thermostat are you using?
>
> Roger
>
> From: Carlos Trigo
> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
> Thanks Roger
>
> My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ru
in something inside the thermostat.
>
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>
> No dia 09/03/2018, =C3-s 23:02, Roger escreveu:
>
> Carlos,
>
> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel.=C3=82
When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fa
n, no matter the position of the defrost switch.=C3=82 Also if you turn on t
he defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off.=C3=82 If you h
ave two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.
>
> Roger
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Carlos Trigo
> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>
pt>
>
> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, wi
th the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to
keep all the panel electronics happy.
> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn t
he fans on and off) can be set.
>
> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow bui
lders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior su
rface.
> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans indep
endently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>
> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the the
rmostat circuit?
> Do I have to use a diode?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
I agree Dan. In the RV10 just having two fans does fine for defrost. Flying at
-10F this winter mine had no problem clearing the windshield. The side windows
can be another story.
My first fans were very tiny...maybe 40mm fans and weak. Those didnt work. Get
some high volume 80-120mm fans and it will work well.
Make sure they and the fan grills are black. I even painted or removed the fan
labels because ANY light coloring will reflect on the windscreen.
Tim
> On Mar 10, 2018, at 12:06 AM, Dan Charrois wrote:
>
>
> At the other end of the spectrum, I live in Canada, and did several flights this
winter with temperatures in the -25C to -30C range. I have the same configuration
- just a couple of computer fans mounted in the glare shield, whose purpose
is to blow air from behind the instrument panel, where the air is heated
from the instruments and cabin heat output by the feet.
>
> I can say that at least in my case, it's worked perfectly. If the cabin is kept
reasonably warm through cabin heat, which is what you'd want to do anyway,
it doesn't have any problem keeping the windshield clear in my RV10. The only
case where heated blown air might have helped is during runup and initial taxi
before the engine has gotten warm enough to heat things up sufficiently. But
when underway, the windshield has remained perfectly clear (not the same to
be said of the side windows that didn't have the fans blowing on them - they
tend to get quite icy in those conditions).
>
> One thing working in my favour is our winters are typically exceptionally dry,
so the humidity of the air is very low - with the exception of the humidity
generated by the occupants.
>
> Dan
>
>> On 2018-Mar-09, at 7:05 PM, Rene Felker wrote:
>>
>> The air is heated by the electronics, the cabin heater, and the RV-10 tunnel
heat. Worked every time I needed it..but I do live in a desert
>>
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A R Goldman
>> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:01 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>>
>> So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a frosted
windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated additionally the air conditioner
compressor is activated (temperature permitting) to reduce moisture.
Your body is constantly creating moisture ( primarily through respiration and
sweating) this condenses on the inside of your windscreen under certain conditions.
Unheated blown air will have little effect. It will have less effect on
ice on the outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.
>>
>> Keep cool (warm)
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Roger
>>>
>>> My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin
something inside the thermostat.
>>>
>>>
>>> Enviado do meu iPhone
>>>
>>> No dia 09/03/2018, s 23:02, Roger escreveu:
>>>
>>>> Carlos,
>>>>
>>>> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When
the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter
the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch
the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel,
either one or both on will power up the fan.
>>>>
>>>> Roger
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>
>>>> From: Carlos Trigo
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
>>>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with
the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep
all the panel electronics happy.
>>>> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the
fans on and off) can be set.
>>>>
>>>> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders
idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
>>>> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently
of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>>>>
>>>> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat
circuit?
>>>> Do I have to use a diode?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>> Carlos
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
> ---
> Dan Charrois
> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
> Phone: 780-961-2213
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Carlos,
Others have made a good point about leaving the fans run continuously. But if
you want them switched, it should be safe to connect a switch in parallel with
the relay contacts that are internal to the temperature controller.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478551#478551
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
So use a DPDT switch. Connect the two heater wires heater to the common contacts,
the manual side contacts to +12V and ground and the other side to the two thermostat
output wires.
If you have it on the manual setting you don't care what the thermostat wants and
it's output is isolated. Setting it to the other side lets the thermostat control
the heater .
Dick Tasker
Carlos Trigo wrote:
> Roger
>
> I am using the XH-W3001 that you can see in my previous post to Ren.
>
> It has a small contactor (relay) which serves as the thermostat switch.
> Again, if I parallel the manual defrost switch with the thermostat, my fear is
what will happen when I turn on the manual switch when the thermostat contactor
is closed.
>
> Carlos
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>
> No dia 09/03/2018, s 23:54, Roger > escreveu:
>
>> A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat. It consists of a bimetal
strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch contacts. I am
not aware of any thermostat that would
>> be harmed by paralleling it with a switch. What thermostat are you using?
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> *From: *Carlos Trigo <mailto:trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
>> *Sent: *Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
>> *To: *aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject: *Re: AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>>
>> Thanks Roger
>>
>> My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin
something inside the thermostat.
>>
>> Enviado do meu iPhone
>>
>>
>> No dia 09/03/2018, s 23:02, Roger > escreveu:
>>
>> Carlos,
>>
>> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When
the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter
the position of the defrost
>> switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until
you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on
will power up the fan.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows
10
>>
>> *From: *Carlos Trigo <mailto:trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
>> *Sent: *Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
>> *To: *aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject: *AeroElectric-List: Defrost switch
>>
>>
>> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard,
with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to
keep all the panel electronics happy.
>>
>> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn
the fans on and off) can be set.
>>
>> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders
idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
>>
>> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently
of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>>
>> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat
circuit?
>>
>> Do I have to use a diode?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Carlos
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
The manual that you can access on Google specifically warns against this.
See my previous email.
Dick Tasker
user9253 wrote:
>
> Carlos,
> Others have made a good point about leaving the fans run continuously. But if
you want them switched, it should be safe to connect a switch in parallel with
the relay contacts that are internal to the temperature controller.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478551#478551
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
Its exactly that Joe
You covered my sudden access of stupidity...
Thanks
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 10/03/2018, s 14:30, user9253 escreveu:
>
> Carlos,
> Others have made a good point about leaving the fans run continuously. But if
you want them switched, it should be safe to connect a switch in parallel with
the relay contacts that are internal to the temperature controller.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478551#478551
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Dick Tasker, right you are. The manual warns against connecting power to the temperature
controller output. At least I think it says that. It is hard to read
Chinese. LOL Without having the controller circuit board in hand along with
a schematic, an informed decision can not be made. Dick's suggestion about
using a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch is the safe way to wire it.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478572#478572
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
Ok, due to not knowing what is the thermostat circuit, I will go the DPDT
way, like it was suggested by Dick Tasker.
Thanks Dick, don't we know each other from the Subbie group?
Cheers
Carlos
-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de user9253
Enviada: Sunday, March 11, 2018 3:06 AM
Para: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Assunto: AeroElectric-List: Re: Defrost switch
Dick Tasker, right you are. The manual warns against connecting power to
the temperature controller output. At least I think it says that. It is
hard to read Chinese. LOL Without having the controller circuit board in
hand along with a schematic, an informed decision can not be made. Dick's
suggestion about using a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch is the safe
way to wire it.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478572#478572
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Dynon Pitot Heat Warning with MGL EFIS |
Folks,
I am installing a Dynon heated pitot tube. The controller has a pin which
gets grounded if the heater is turned on and fails. This is supposed to
drive a warning lamp. See "pitot heat warn" on the attached diagram.
I want to replace the pitot heat warn lamp with an indicator on my MGL
EFIS. The EFIS has eight analog inputs (see A1 through A8 on page 6 of the
attached iBOX V1 installation manual) and also has four balanced analog
inputs (see 1+,1- through 4+,4-) on page 7.
This would be easy for me if INST-4-G from the Dynon controller was either
grounded or at some positive voltage. But if I understand correctly, that
wire is either grounded or open. How do I hook this to my EFIS?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Heat Warning with MGL EFIS |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Connect a pull-up resistor, perhaps 1K or more, between a positive source and
the Dynon alarm wire.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478611#478611
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Heat Warning with MGL EFIS |
Joe,
What do I connect to the EFIS?
-- Art Z.
On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 7:59 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Connect a pull-up resistor, perhaps 1K =CE=A9 or more, between a positive
> source and the Dynon alarm wire.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Heat Warning with MGL EFIS |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
A picture is worth a thousand words.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478617#478617
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pitot_alarm_221.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Heat Warning with MGL EFIS |
Joe,
Got it. That'll work. Thank you.
-- Art Z.
On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 10:11 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> A picture is worth a thousand words.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Heat Warning with MGL EFIS |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I would try it without the pull-up resistor first. It might not be needed.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478626#478626
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot Heat Warning with MGL EFIS |
How would you do that if the reference is ground?
On Monday, March 12, 2018, user9253 wrote:
>
> I would try it without the pull-up resistor first. It might not be needed.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478626#478626
>
>
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the
makings of a Crew Chief.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Defrost switch |
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
Yes, we do.
Dick
Carlos Trigo wrote:
>
> Ok, due to not knowing what is the thermostat circuit, I will go the DPDT
> way, like it was suggested by Dick Tasker.
>
> Thanks Dick, don't we know each other from the Subbie group?
>
> Cheers
> Carlos
>
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de user9253
> Enviada: Sunday, March 11, 2018 3:06 AM
> Para: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Assunto: AeroElectric-List: Re: Defrost switch
>
>
> Dick Tasker, right you are. The manual warns against connecting power to
> the temperature controller output. At least I think it says that. It is
> hard to read Chinese. LOL Without having the controller circuit board in
> hand along with a schematic, an informed decision can not be made. Dick's
> suggestion about using a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch is the safe
> way to wire it.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478572#478572
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan <ryansoutham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Old Electric Auto-Lite Generator |
Hi all,
Thought it worth a try given that there's quite a knowledge base here.
Has anyone had much to do with Electric Auto-Lite generators. I currently h
ave a generator warning light coming on and associated amp and volt reading
s on the gauge (as well as battery going flat).
It is a 30V 140A generator. It had been working up until recently when the
aircraft was shipped from the US to New Zealand with the batteries disconne
cted.
I have attached a picture of the terminals as they are labelled A B D and E
, D and E have a jumper across them (possibly earth?). Now the awkward thin
g, this generator is fitted to an Allison V12 which in turn is fitted to a
Russian Yakovlev-3 using all Russian ancillary equipment (carbon pile regul
ator, over voltage protection circuits etc etc). There is no other cable to
ground that is obvious other than the generator grounding to the engine.
I have a feeling that the generator is type 'A' with Field to ground extern
ally regulated and have treated it as such up to this point. There is resis
tance across the field winding (or what I think is the field winding (label
led as terminal 'A'??). There is no voltage at the field wire going into th
e generator with master and generator switch on, which leads me to further
think that it is a type 'A' generator.
I have put a jumper on the field and dropped it to earth (bypassing the reg
ulator etc) and run a multimeter on large terminal 'B' and there is a very
small voltage (approx. 0.5V) that does change with RPM to a maximum of appr
ox. 1V at run up RPM.
I'm thinking the generator needs flashing possibly??
Is someone able to assist a little to determine the best way to do this giv
en a lack of total understanding of the labelling of the terminals on the g
enerator. What are the 4 poles? Why is there a jumper across D and E? Am I
correct in thinking it is a type 'A' generator with negative field? Are we
able to give some names to the various terminals and is there a better way
to determine if it is a generator fault or a fault at the regulator end (wh
ich is going to be more difficult to sort given its Russian origins). Does
anyone possibly have an Auto-Lite manual from the 40's?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Old Electric Auto-Lite Generator |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
If it was made in the '40s, it could be a generator, not an alternator. Take resistance
measurements and post them. Read this manual:
http://www.wildriders.org/threads/autolite_gen_maintenance.pdf
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478683#478683
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Old Electric Auto-Lite Generator |
FANTASTIC!
Joe:
Brings back memories.
Barry
On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 5:13 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> If it was made in the '40s, it could be a generator, not an alternator.
> Take resistance measurements and post them. Read this manual:
> http://www.wildriders.org/threads/autolite_gen_maintenance.pdf
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478683#478683
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Old Electric Auto-Lite Generator |
>
>
>I have put a jumper on the field and dropped it to earth (bypassing
>the regulator etc) and run a multimeter on large terminal 'B' and
>there is a very small voltage (approx. 0.5V) that does change with
>RPM to a maximum of approx. 1V at run up RPM.
>
>
>I'm thinking the generator needs flashing possibly??
Very possible . . . if not probable. If it has
been a long time since the generator was operating,
it's likely to have lost residual field flux.
It's likely that the four terminals are simply
Armature+, Armature-, Field- and Field+
(supply from regulator) . . . the jumpered
terminals would be A- and F-.
Does the ship's maintenance literature speak to
a flashing procedure? Lacking a 'qualified'
procedure, you can rig a current limited jumper
(a 55W automotive headlamp is a cheap limiting
resistor). While the engine is running and generator
switch is ON, use your 'test lamp jumper' to connect
from Bat to Arm on the regulator. This should
put enough current into the generator system to
cause it to excite it into self-sustained operation.
After it comes up, turn on as many ship's
loads as you can like lights, pitot heater, blowers,
etc and bring engine rpm up to fast idle . . . the
generator load meter should show some significant
output.
It only takes a minute or so to 'recharge' the field
such that it should come on line normally the
next time you fire it up.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dj_theis" <djtheis58(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Gents,
I (and my partner) are building a Sonex and using a R2300 (Revmaster) engine, which
for those that may not be aware, is a VW derivative. There have been a few
questions a while back regarding the PM charging system on the R2300, some
that were never answered. One of the unanswered questions was the rather unusual
wiring of the rectifier/regulator. The PM regulator has one of the AC lines
tied (shunted) to the + battery terminal. While I don't fully understand the
advantages of such a regulator, I have found that Revmaster is not alone with
this approach. The AeroVee engine, which is another VW conversion, uses a very
similar PM charging system and regulator wiring scheme.
I'm posting this request for open comments, from the forum, on the electrical diagram
I've generated for the Revmaster. I've based this layout very loosely
on the Aerolectric Connection's Z16 example.
The R2300 has two separate PM alternators. The construction of the PM alternators
is such that the two alternators will produce roughly the same AC waveform,
in phase. The coils that make up the dual alternators are energized with 12
Neo magnets (6 North and 6 South poles) for a 6 cycle per rev charging system.
A crude diagram of the alternator is included on the schematic (page 1). The
overvoltage and selection switching I've constructed should allow for the original
Z16 "Off, Batt, Alt" selection in series with a "Left, Both, Right" selection
for the alternator. I have also drawn two capacitors, which, after I
think about it, might be excessive.
The last item that might catch the forum's attention is the Essential Bus switch.
My thinking here was to be able to have an "OFF" selection for the avionics,
which is the entirety of the E-bus. The second page of the schematic is made
up almost entirely of the avionics, which is all fed from the E-bus, with the
exception of the servos. I recognize that I have some "clean-up" with regard
to shielded cables (that intend to use for all serial and radio connections).
I'll take any comments on the layout that come my way. I'm looking for constructive
criticism and avoidance of obvious mistakes.
Thanks in advance for your time and feedback.
Dan Theis
Sonex 1362
--------
Scratch building Sonex #1362
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478745#478745
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/z16m_revmaster_2300_r5_page_2_177.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/z16m_revmaster_2300_r5_page_1_173.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Regulator set point |
I've switched to using a LiFePO battery.=C2- I accept the limited power r
eserve it has in the case of a generator issue, because I'm not a big fan o
f really long flight legs=C2- and the weight benefit for my Corvair equip
ped 601XL is exceptional.=C2- That being said, more reserve is a good thi
ng.=C2- My Kubota regulator for the PM generator is set at 13.8V.=C2- T
here was some talk a few years ago of modifying the regulator to a higher s
et point.=C2- How would this feat be accomplished?=C2- I'd like to set
it between 14.3 and 14.5.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The easy way is to replace the regulator. Search eBay for part number AM101406.
I think that the only difference between the search results is the price.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478752#478752
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
Thanks Joe, but how are you able to tell that these regulators have a highe
r set point?
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 1:43 AM, user9253 wrote:
The easy way is to replace the regulator.=C2- Search eBay for part number
AM101406.=C2- I think that the only difference between the search result
s is the price.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478752#478752
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I have a John Deere regulator in my RV-12. The system voltage is now a half volt
higher than when using the Ducati regulator. Not saying the regulator that
you buy will have a higher voltage, but for $25 it is worth a try. The Ducati
regulators fail so often that some pilots carry a spare. The important thing
is to mount them with heat conductive paste to help carry the heat away. Heat
is the enemy of electronics.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478755#478755
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
I've had two of those PM rectifier regulators consistently put out 14.4
volts (+/- 0.1)
Mine were purchased directly from John Deere although I doubt that
matters other than doubling or tripling the price.
Ken
On 20/03/2018 11:42 AM, Ernest Christlike wrote:
> Thanks Joe, but how are you able to tell that these regulators have a
> higher set point?
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 1:43 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
>
> >
>
> The easy way is to replace the regulator. Search eBay for part number
> AM101406. I think that the only difference between the search results
> is the price.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478752#478752
>
>
> http://www.matron==================
> http://wiki.matronic======================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
At 08:40 PM 3/19/2018, you wrote:
>I've switched to using a LiFePO battery. I accept the limited power
>reserve it has in the case of a generator issue, because I'm not a
>big fan of really long flight legs and the weight benefit for my
>Corvair equipped 601XL is exceptional. That being said, more
>reserve is a good thing. My Kubota regulator for the PM generator
>is set at 13.8V. There was some talk a few years ago of modifying
>the regulator to a higher set point. How would this feat be
>accomplished? I'd like to set it between 14.3 and 14.5.
>
If it's a potted assembly, like many small pm rectifier/
regulators are, then adjusting the setpoint is not practical
and pretty much impossible. If it can be disassembled and
the parts are accessible, it MAY be possible to make
some adjustment to the voltage control circuits.
Actually, you might consider leaving it at 13.8 . . . if
indeed it really runs at that value or a tad higher.
See https://goo.gl/vCd59M
Note that the LiFePO4 cells will achieve 100% charge
or very close to it with a charging level of 3.4v per
cell (13.6 volts on the bus). But as the experiment
shows, there is a tipping point at about 3.3 volts
per cell that severely limits energy replacement
in the LiFePO4 cells. So if you're running 13.8, you
can probably leave it alone.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: R2300 Wiring |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
It would be interesting to know why Revmaster chose to use the TMG-3096 half wave
shunt regulator instead of a full wave switching rectifier/regulator. Wouldn't
the latter put out a smoother DC without getting as hot? And wouldn't the
alternator coils run cooler too?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478770#478770
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
That's some powerful information, Bob.=C2-
I'm not in a position to experiment on this point, but these tests would in
dicate that a lead-acid and LiiFePO battery could live together.=C2- The
CG challenged builder could put a small (less than $100) LiFePO on the fire
wall to get cranking amps, and then locate an AGM in the tail for endurance
loads.=C2- With the necessity to carry cranking loads removed, a 14 to 1
6 AWG wire could replace the 00 AWG starter cable running the entire length
of the airframe.
Mixing battery chemistries is generally discouraged for good reason, but th
is mix could be beneficial to a lot of builders.
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 8:29 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
At 08:40 PM 3/19/2018, you wrote:
I've switched to using a LiFePObattery.=C2- I accept the limited power re
serve it has in the case of agenerator issue, because I'm not a big fan of
really long flightlegs=C2- and the weight benefit for my Corvair equipped
601XL isexceptional.=C2- That being said, more reserve is a good thing.
=C2-My Kubota regulator for the PM generator is set at 13.8V.=C2- There
wassome talk a few years ago of modifying the regulator to a higher setpoi
nt.=C2- How would this feat be accomplished?=C2- I'd like to setit betw
een 14.3 and 14.5.
=C2-If it's a potted assembly, like many small pm rectifier/
=C2-regulators are, then adjusting the setpoint is not practical
=C2-and pretty much impossible. If it can be disassembled and
=C2-the parts are accessible, it MAY be possible to make
=C2-some adjustment to the voltage control circuits.
=C2-Actually, you might consider leaving it at 13.8 . . . if
=C2-indeed it really runs at that value or a tad higher.
=C2-Seehttps://goo.gl/vCd59M
=C2-Note that the LiFePO4 cells will achieve 100% charge
=C2-or very close to it with a charging level of 3.4v per
=C2-cell (13.6 volts on the bus). But as the experiment
=C2-shows, there is a tipping point at about 3.3 volts
=C2-per cell that severely limits energy replacement
=C2-in the LiFePO4 cells. So if you're running 13.8, you
=C2-can probably leave it alone.
=C2- Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: R2300 Wiring |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 3/21/2018 8:28 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> It would be interesting to know why Revmaster chose to use the TMG-3096 half
wave shunt regulator instead of a full wave switching rectifier/regulator. Wouldn't
the latter put out a smoother DC without getting as hot? And wouldn't
the alternator coils run cooler too?
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
The Revmaster stuff has been around for a really long time. Likely since
before switching regulators were affordable to anyone except the
military & NASA.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: R2300 Wiring |
| From: | "dj_theis" <djtheis58(at)gmail.com> |
"It would be interesting to know why Revmaster chose to use the TMG-3096 half wave
shunt regulator instead of a full wave switching rectifier/regulator. Wouldn't
the latter put out a smoother DC without getting as hot? And wouldn't the
alternator coils run cooler too?"
************
Those are good questions Joe. I've asked the builder (Joe Harvoth) precisely that
and not gotten any complete explanation. My suspicion is that, like many
mechanically focused shops, they (Revmaster) chose to outsource the electrical
portion of their project. They originally had an external, belt driven PM alternator
and at some point integrated a design into the flywheel and added their
separately powered, 8 "coil-on-plug" CDI ignition. I think his perspective
is that it works "well enough" so why mess with it.
I do know that there are quite a few examples of the R2300 with this regulator
system out in the wild. I've not heard of any issues with it. The Thatcher CX5
uses this engine, along with the same regulator and the only change they made
on the engine is to change the carb.
My thought was to run it with the original design (on the ground) and try to get
enough data on current, voltage and heat, to make a reasonable decision on any
needed changes. I plan on running the engine, for the first time later this
spring.
My hope was to get some feedback (like yours) from the forum on the overall plans
for wiring to avoid rework. Once it's wired and running, I can get some data.
Bob N. mentioned in an earlier post on the R2300, that the engine designer
is the one to run these tests. He suggested (and I don't disagree) that the
best method would be with a mocked up system on a bench. I tried to purchase
enough hardware to achieve that but ran into a lot of resistance from Revmaster.
So the backup plan is in place, to learn as much as I can with the running
engine example of the charging circuit.
Dan Theis.
Sonex 1362
--------
Scratch building Sonex #1362
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478774#478774
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Don't forget that the wire still must carry both charge and discharge
currents. A long run of even #14 could have significant voltage drop on
a 12V system.
On 3/21/2018 9:38 AM, Ernest Christley wrote:
> That's some powerful information, Bob.
>
> I'm not in a position to experiment on this point, but these tests
> would indicate that a lead-acid and LiiFePO battery could live
> together. The CG challenged builder could put a small (less than
> $100) LiFePO on the firewall to get cranking amps, and then locate an
> AGM in the tail for endurance loads. With the necessity to carry
> cranking loads removed, a 14 to 16 AWG wire could replace the 00 AWG
> starter cable running the entire length of the airframe.
>
> Mixing battery chemistries is generally discouraged for good reason,
> but this mix could be beneficial to a lot of builders.
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 8:29 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> wrote:
>
>
> At 08:40 PM 3/19/2018, you wrote:
>> I've switched to using a LiFePO battery. I accept the limited power
>> reserve it has in the case of a generator issue, because I'm not a
>> big fan of really long flight legs and the weight benefit for my
>> Corvair equipped 601XL is exceptional. That being said, more reserve
>> is a good thing. My Kubota regulator for the PM generator is set at
>> 13.8V. There was some talk a few years ago of modifying the
>> regulator to a higher set point. How would this feat be
>> accomplished? I'd like to set it between 14.3 and 14.5.
>>
>
> If it's a potted assembly, like many small pm rectifier/
> regulators are, then adjusting the setpoint is not practical
> and pretty much impossible. If it can be disassembled and
> the parts are accessible, it MAY be possible to make
> some adjustment to the voltage control circuits.
>
> Actually, you might consider leaving it at 13.8 . . . if
> indeed it really runs at that value or a tad higher.
> See https://goo.gl/vCd59M
>
> Note that the LiFePO4 cells will achieve 100% charge
> or very close to it with a charging level of 3.4v per
> cell (13.6 volts on the bus). But as the experiment
> shows, there is a tipping point at about 3.3 volts
> per cell that severely limits energy replacement
> in the LiFePO4 cells. So if you're running 13.8, you
> can probably leave it alone.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: R2300 Wiring |
Guys:
Switching Power Supplies have their own problems. The main problem being
FREQUENCY. If the wrong frequency for the switching is chosen there can
be two types problems:
1 - The frequency is high enough to radiate like a transmitter either on
the first harmonic or higher,
2 - Again frequency and be at high power audio frequencies which can get
into the planes IF and/or audio system giving an annoying background
noise. Just like the whine of an Alternator or the squeal of a Strobe.
My earliest recollection of Switching Power Supplies comes with the old
desk top computers. NASA ain't got no-ting on progress.
Barry
On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 10:47 AM, Charlie England
wrote:
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> On 3/21/2018 8:28 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
>>
>> It would be interesting to know why Revmaster chose to use the TMG-3096
>> half wave shunt regulator instead of a full wave switching
>> rectifier/regulator. Wouldn't the latter put out a smoother DC without
>> getting as hot? And wouldn't the alternator coils run cooler too?
>>
>> --------
>> Joe Gores
>>
>> The Revmaster stuff has been around for a really long time. Likely since
> before switching regulators were affordable to anyone except the military &
> NASA.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: R2300 Wiring |
At 08:28 AM 3/21/2018, you wrote:
>
>It would be interesting to know why Revmaster chose to use the
>TMG-3096 half wave shunt regulator instead of a full wave switching
>rectifier/regulator. Wouldn't the latter put out a smoother DC
>without getting as hot? And wouldn't the alternator coils run cooler too?
It's been my experience that most engine/airframe
gurus are pretty focused on the cost/performance
of their central discipline . . . while things-
electric are not so well understood.
We can only guess as to the through processes
behind the decision . . . but indeed, a full-wave,
series controlled rectifier/regulator is the
most energy efficient of the simple regulators.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
At 09:38 AM 3/21/2018, you wrote:
>That's some powerful information, Bob.
>
>I'm not in a position to experiment on this point,
>but these tests would indicate that a lead-acid and
>LiiFePO battery could live together.
Sure . . . this has always been the case
in terms of normal performance. I.e.
crank the engine, support all loads with
an altenrator including recharge of the
battery and then shut down leaving all
batteries fully charged.
A 14.2 volt set-point has been the touchstone
for operating lead-acid batteries since day-one,
that same voltage is quite acceptable for
LiFePO4.
Lithium products that do no contain smart
battery management systems are vulnerable
to individual cell damage due to unbalanced
recharging and cell destruction if discharged
below some tipping point . . . generally pegged
at 2.8 volts per cell (11.2v bus). The lead-acid
battery will continue to deliver useful energy
below this value . . . but not for long.
Assuming that you limit endurance discharging
of the 'barefooted' lithium battery to 11.2
then you can essentially tap ALL chemical energy
on board without risking damage to the lithium
product. But then, if the alternator is TU
and you're boring holes in a very dark sky over
unfriendly terrain, then the health and well-being
of your lithium battery is, perhaps, of little
concern.
> The CG challenged builder could put a small (less than $100)
> LiFePO on the firewall to get cranking amps, and then locate an AGM
> in the tail for endurance loads. With the necessity to carry
> cranking loads removed, a 14 to 16 AWG wire could replace the 00
> AWG starter cable running the entire length of the airframe.
Nobody needs 00AWG wire in a light plane
for any reason EXCEPT comoposit seaplanes with big
batteries in the nose for weight/balance
concerns and engines high and aft on pylons.
Everybody else is in good shape with 2AWG
cranking feeders. For the scenario you propose,
I wouldn't drop the rear battery feeder lower
than 10AWG and I would protect that feeder
with a fat maxifuse on the order of 60A.
Wiring up front for all other cranking circuits
could be 4 or even 6AWG.
The fact that the lithium product is up front
on short a short leash of fat wires insures
lower voltage drops under normal charge/discharge
cycles making your 13.8v set-point less
problematic. It's worth a try.
>Mixing battery chemistries is generally discouraged for good reason,
>but this mix could be beneficial to a lot of builders.
Every chemistry has it's own 'happy-space'
boundaries where maximized performance
can be exploited. Mixed chemistries can
offer considerable overlap of happy-space
where reliable operation can be achieved
but with tighter boundaries. Lithium
products with agile BMS can be intermixed
with lead-acid with relative impunity.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
At 10:07 AM 3/21/2018, you wrote:
>Don't forget that the wire still must carry both charge and
>discharge currents. A long run of even #14 could have significant
>voltage drop on a 12V system.
Bingo. Give the man a Kewpie Doll!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> |
I would like to mention: check any danger of high currents if a LiFePO4
battery (13.2V) is directly parallelled with a lead-acid battery (12.6V).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: R2300 Wiring |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Dan T, I see no errors in your page 1 schematic. Having two capacitors does not
hurt anything. The fuse size for the EFIS seems small. The low voltage monitor
module is not really needed if the EFIS has that function. If you wanted
to experiment, you could replace one of the half wave regulators with one of
those John Deere clone regulators. Then compare the temperature of the half
wave regulator to the full wave one.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478781#478781
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: R2300 Wiring |
>Guys:
>
>Switching Power Supplies have their own
>problems. The main problem being FREQUENCY. If
>the wrong frequency for the switching is chosen
>there can be two types problems:
>
>1 - The frequency is high enough to radiate like
>a transmitter either on the first harmonic or higher,
>
>2 - Again frequency and be at high power audio
>frequencies which can get into the planes IF
>and/or audio system giving an annoying
>background noise. Just like the whine of an
>Alternator or the squeal of a Strobe.
>
>My earliest=C2 recollection=C2 of Switching Power
>Supplies comes with the old desk top
>computers.=C2 NASA ain't got no-ting on progress.
>
>Barry
Yeahhh . . . sort of . . .
The term "switching" has been loosly applied to
a lot of architectures wherein solid state devices,
SCRs, Triacs, FETs, PNP, NPN etc are used in an
all or nothing operation.
The term 'switchmode' was coined late in the game
to differentiate the relatively high frequency
step-up/step-down power supplies wherein energy
was STORED on the circuit's reactances.
Waaayyy back when, ARC and others put the
first transistors into vacuum tube appliances
where the transistors were used as audio
amplifiers and power supplies. As power supplies,
the transistors did indeed operate as either fully
on or completely off . . . i.e. they mimicked the
'switch' contacts of the contemporary electro-
mechanical vibrators used to convert DC to AC
for elevation in transformers to supply high
voltage for vacuum tubes.
These were exactly the same kind of supply used
to generate high voltage for the strobe lights . . .
a really whoopi-doo thing for airplanes in 1960.
A bit later, the small engines industry perceived
value in adding dc power supplies to small wheeled
vehicles like scooters, riding lawn mowers, small
motor cycles, etc. The PM alternator with a stone
simple triggered SCR rectifier, regulator did an
almost pretty good job of charging a battery.
Advances in power magnetics and transistors allowed
efficient designs at higher frequencies. It was not
uncommon for the optimal HV power supply to run at
1 to 4 Khz in 1970, 1 to 10 MHz or even higher is
practical now. Increases in operating frequency
translated directly into smaller and lighter products
that do the same job.
Technology used in contemporary PM rectifier/regulators
stores no energy, it can only control it by modulating
the duty cycle of ON-time for the 'switches' . . . which
are silicon controlled rectifiers or TRIACS.
The frequency of operation for virtually all of these
products is on the order of a few hundred Hertz and
with ripple voltages well inside the DO-170 design
limits for aircraft DC power. So while all these devices
do some form of 'switching' with either series or shunt
configurations, the potential for EMC issues is
minuscule. Efficiency is another matter but interference
problems are nil.
There are lots of strobe systems still flying with
Royer oscillators operating in the audible frequencies
and these have been known to conduct noise at the
operating frequency onto the bus.
Constant-current LED power supplies do have a
potential for EMC issues. They operate in the
MegaHertz ranges as do HID lights that were once
feared to be problematic. I was able to test some
donated HID fixtures in the lab and found no
noise levels of concern.
So just to put the 'switching' thingy in perspective,
ALL modern appliances have solid state devices operating
as electrical switches. But unless they operate at
outside protected enclosures and at speeds and power
levels of concern, the potential for electro-magnetic
distress is small.
For PM alternator rectifier/regulators the risk is zero.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
At 11:23 AM 3/21/2018, you wrote:
>
>I would like to mention: check any danger of high currents if a
>LiFePO4 battery (13.2V) is directly parallelled with a lead-acid
>battery (12.6V).
I just measured an SVLA resting voltage of 13.1 volts
while my EarthX is 13.4 volts. When connected together,
there WAS a circulating current on the order of 400mA.
In an operational scenario where both batteries are
floated on a 13.8 to 14.2 volts bus, I suspect
the circulating currents between the two will be
small in the event of alternator failure. If one
sets 2.8v per cell as minimum discharge voltage, this
translates to 11.2 volts which corresponds to a 90%
plus depletion of the SVLVA as well.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Regulator set point |
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> |
There might only be a concern then if an architecture allowed
parallelling after serious discharge of the lead-acid battery?
Jan de Jong
On 3/22/2018 11:40 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 11:23 AM 3/21/2018, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> I would like to mention: check any danger of high currents if a
>> LiFePO4 battery (13.2V) is directly parallelled with a lead-acid
>> battery (12.6V).
>
> I just measured an SVLA resting voltage of 13.1 volts
> while my EarthX is 13.4 volts. When connected together,
> there WAS a circulating current on the order of 400mA.
>
> In an operational scenario where both batteries are
> floated on a 13.8 to 14.2 volts bus, I suspect
> the circulating currents between the two will be
> small in the event of alternator failure. If one
> sets 2.8v per cell as minimum discharge voltage, this
> translates to 11.2 volts which corresponds to a 90%
> plus depletion of the SVLVA as well.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | USB Power Supplies |
Folks,
Of the zillions of USB power supplies available, do you have any thoughts
about what works well in an AB airplane? I want one 2A port for an iPad and
a couple of 1A ports for other stuff.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
Art,
I am in the process of installing one of these.
http://www.appareo.com/stratus-power/ This thing is supposed to be FAA
certified and TSO=99d. It=99s not cheep but if it works as
advertised I=99ll be a happy camper. I got tired of replacing
those cigarette lighter units that worked sometimes and didn=99t
work other times.
Once I get it installed and get my ADS-B 2020 gizmo installed I=99ll
report on them.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (120 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules
Prop.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
On Mar 23, 2018, at 7:06 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
Folks,
Of the zillions of USB power supplies available, do you have any
thoughts about what works well in an AB airplane? I want one 2A port for
an iPad and a couple of 1A ports for other stuff.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | USB Power Supplies |
Yikes!
Three hundred and fifty bucks for this??
Well, it seems the =9CTSO=9D label costs a bunch of money
.
Carlos
De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Robert
Borger
Enviada: Friday, March 23, 2018 12:58 PM
Para: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Assunto: Re: AeroElectric-List: USB Power Supplies
Art,
I am in the process of installing one of these.
http://www.appareo.com/stratus-power/ This thing is supposed to be FAA
certified and TSO=99d. It=99s not cheep but if it works as
advertised I=99ll be a happy camper. I got tired of replacing
those cigarette lighter units that worked sometimes and didn=99t
work other times.
Once I get it installed and get my ADS-B 2020 gizmo installed
I=99ll report on them.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (120 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules
Prop.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
On Mar 23, 2018, at 7:06 AM, Art Zemon > wrote:
Folks,
Of the zillions of USB power supplies available, do you have any
thoughts about what works well in an AB airplane? I want one 2A port for
an iPad and a couple of 1A ports for other stuff.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
If you want plug&play, talk to these guys:
https://www.steinair.com/?search_category=&s=usb+power&search_posttype
=product
They have a stellar rep with the RV-x crowd; they've built panels for a lot
of RVs. They supposedly are taking an off the shelf USB jack and modifying
it to ensure that it's quiet and reliable.
Charlie
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
> Art,
>
> I am in the process of installing one of these. http://www.appareo.com/
> stratus-power/ This thing is supposed to be FAA certified and TSO
=99d.
> It=99s not cheep but if it works as advertised I=99ll be a ha
ppy camper. I got
> tired of replacing those cigarette lighter units that worked sometimes an
d
> didn=99t work other times.
>
> Once I get it installed and get my ADS-B 2020 gizmo installed I=99l
l report
> on them.
>
> Blue skies & tailwinds,
> Bob Borger
> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (120 hrs).
> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules
> Prop.
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>
> Corinth, TX
>
> 76208
>
> -5331
> Cel: 817-992-1117 <(817)%20992-1117>
> rlborger(at)mac.com
>
> On Mar 23, 2018, at 7:06 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Of the zillions of USB power supplies available, do you have any thoughts
> about what works well in an AB airplane? I want one 2A port for an iPad a
nd
> a couple of 1A ports for other stuff.
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
I installed one of these from SteinAir:
> https://www.steinair.com/product/dual-usb-panel-jack/
Couldn't be happier.
John M
RV9A 500+ and counting
On 3/23/2018 5:06 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Of the zillions of USB power supplies available, do you have any
> thoughts about what works well in an AB airplane? I want one 2A port
> for an iPad and a couple of 1A ports for other stuff.
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
John,
Thank you! I don't know why I didn't think of checking SteinAir. That looks
perfect.
-- Art Z.
On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 8:24 AM, John Morgensen wrote:
> I installed one of these from SteinAir:
>
> https://www.steinair.com/product/dual-usb-panel-jack/
>
> Couldn't be happier.
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
| From: | "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com> |
I have fitted the two port version of this in my Europa Aircraft. I have not used
it in flight yet ( only started test flying recently), but it has had some
very good reviews in the UK
http://www.charge4.co.uk/
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478838#478838
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Not receiving posts |
| From: | rnjcurtis <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> |
QXBwYXJlbnRseSBldmVyeW9uZSByYW4gb3V0IG9mIHByb2JsZW1zIG9yIHRoaW5ncyB0byBzYXkh
IQoKUm9nZXIKCgoKU2VudCBmcm9tOiBZT0dBIFRBQkxFVCAxMCBIRCsKClJpY2hhcmQgR2lyYXJk
IDxhc2xzYS5ybmdAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKCj5IYXN0aGVsaXN0Z29uZWRhcms/QWxsb2Zh
c3VkZGVuSXN0b3BwZWRyZWNlaXZpbmdwb3N0cy5JY2hlY2tlZHRoZU1hdHJvbmljc3NpdGV0b21h
a2VzdXJlSW1zdGlsbHN1YnNjcmliZWRhbmRteWVtYWlsYWNjb3VudHRvbWFrZXN1cmVpdHdhc250
aW5hZHZlcnRlbnRseWJsb2NrZWQuQW55b25lZWxzZWhhdmluZ3RoaXNwcm9ibGVtP1JpY2stLeKA
nEJsZXNzZWRhcmV0aGVjcmFja2VkLGZvcnRoZXlzaGFsbGxldGludGhlbGlnaHQu4oCdwqDCoEdy
b3VjaG9NYXJ4VmlydXMtZnJlZS53d3cuYXZnLmNvbQ=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
Wow! I should hope they got good reviews... Based on today's exchange
rate, the Charge 4 is a bit over $257 (plus shipping)! You could
purchase eight of the SteinAir version for that!
Another one worthy of consideration if you need/prefer a "horizontal"
charger would be the Belite Aircraft USB Dual 2.4 amp charger, which
sells for $75. It can be seen at
http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/usb-dual-2-4-amp-charger/ (The
single-port version can also be ordered through Aircraft Spruce, though
it's a bit more expensive for some reason...)
Jim Parker
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Power Supplies
From: "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com>
Date: Sat, March 24, 2018 3:07 am
I have fitted the two port version of this in my Europa Aircraft. I have
not used it in flight yet ( only started test flying recently), but it
has had some very good reviews in the UK
http://www.charge4.co.uk/
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478838#478838
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
Good lord, people!!=C2- You can pick these power regulators up every day
that plug into a cigarette lighter for $5!=C2-=C2- They are all an LM35
7.=C2-=C2- I have a junk drawer full of them.=C2- And, the cigarette
lighter jack is good for older equipment that is configured for it.=C2- W
hy would anyone ever pay over $10 for one?
Why is aviation expensive?=C2- Because, people are will to pay for it?
On Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:32 PM, "jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com" wrote:
Wow!=C2- I should hope they got good reviews...=C2- Based on today's ex
change
rate, the Charge 4 is a bit over $257 (plus shipping)!=C2- You could
purchase eight of the SteinAir version for that!=C2-
Another one worthy of consideration if you need/prefer a "horizontal"
charger would be the Belite Aircraft USB Dual 2.4 amp charger, which
sells for $75.=C2- It can be seen at
http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/usb-dual-2-4-amp-charger/ (The
single-port version can also be ordered through Aircraft Spruce, though
it's a bit more expensive for some reason...)
Jim Parker
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Power Supplies
From: "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com>
Date: Sat, March 24, 2018 3:07 am
I have fitted the two port version of this in my Europa Aircraft. I have
not used it in flight yet ( only started test flying recently), but it
has had some very good reviews in the UK
http://www.charge4.co.uk/
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478838#478838
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | SD-20 Troubleshooting |
Hi All,
I was hoping I could talk you into helping me troubleshoot an SD-20 with
a LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator.
Prior to this issue the alternator would produce 14.4 volts and about 10
amsp in cruise flight and other times when the engine is turning
quickly. The isolated bus that is powered by this system is now showing
12.2 volts and 4.5 amps and then slowly the volts on that bus keep
dropping so it is obvious that the alternator is not charging.
The bus that it is powering is small and the only items being powered in
cruise flight are the following (amps listed are the absolute max that
the appliance will be pulling):
VOLT REG SENSE 2 LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator BUS VOLTAGE SENSE
VOLT REG FIELD 5 VOLTAGE REGULATOR FIELD
Dynon SV-1000 5 SV-D1000 10" SKYVIEW DISPLAY
SV COM RADIO 5 SV-COM-425 0.2amp RCV 3 amp
XMT
SV-AP SERVO 5 SV-AP SERVO Pitch servo 2 amps
when MAX torque
Roll servo 2 amps when MAX torque
SV-AP POWER 3 SV-AP UNIT
Can someone please provide me with some troubleshooting advice?
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
While I agree that $hundreds$ is just silly, there can be issues with
cheaper (and even some less cheap) adapters. Some generate quite a bit
of audio frequency and RF 'noise' that gets injected and/or transmitted
into intercoms, radios, nav systems, etc. SteinAir claims to modify the
ones they sell to ensure that there's no noise.
Another potential issue is that a lot of tablets, especially the the
self focused ones (i etc), don't play well with many aftermarket
chargers. The tablet needs to hear from the charger to know it's ok to
draw the full 2+ amps, or it won't quick charge; sometimes that means it
will discharge faster than it will accept charge current.
Charlie
On 3/24/2018 6:12 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
> Good lord, people!! You can pick these power regulators up every day
> that plug into a cigarette lighter for $5! They are all an LM357.
> I have a junk drawer full of them. And, the cigarette lighter jack is
> good for older equipment that is configured for it. Why would anyone
> ever pay over $10 for one?
>
> Why is aviation expensive? Because, people are will to pay for it?
>
>
> On Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:32 PM, "jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com"
> wrote:
>
>
> >
>
> Wow! I should hope they got good reviews... Based on today's exchange
> rate, the Charge 4 is a bit over $257 (plus shipping)! You could
> purchase eight of the SteinAir version for that!
>
> Another one worthy of consideration if you need/prefer a "horizontal"
> charger would be the Belite Aircraft USB Dual 2.4 amp charger, which
> sells for $75. It can be seen at
> http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/usb-dual-2-4-amp-charger/ (The
> single-port version can also be ordered through Aircraft Spruce, though
> it's a bit more expensive for some reason...)
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Power Supplies
> From: "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com <mailto:rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com>>
> Date: Sat, March 24, 2018 3:07 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> >
>
> I have fitted the two port version of this in my Europa Aircraft. I have
> not used it in flight yet ( only started test flying recently), but it
> has had some very good reviews in the UK
>
> http://www.charge4.co.uk/
>
> --------
> Bob Dawson
> XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 3/24/2018 7:12 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
> Why would anyone ever pay over $10 for one?
Slightly more than $10 (I paid $12 without the cable), but these work
great to charge both Android and iPad devices at the same time, dual 2.4
amp ports (4.8 amps total), with no spurious RF emissions that I've been
able to notice.
$20 including a cable is still a pretty good deal:
https://www.amazon.com/SCOSCHE-Lightning-Micro-USB-Charge-Charger/dp/B01AG16KZQ/
Slightly cheaper on Ebay, search there for "scosche usbc242m"
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Currently Flying: Glastar
Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
I use these as well, in 2 planes and many cars.
Tim
> On Mar 24, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
>
>> On 3/24/2018 7:12 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
>> Why would anyone ever pay over $10 for one?
>
> Slightly more than $10 (I paid $12 without the cable), but these work great to
charge both Android and iPad devices at the same time, dual 2.4 amp ports (4.8
amps total), with no spurious RF emissions that I've been able to notice.
>
> $20 including a cable is still a pretty good deal:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/SCOSCHE-Lightning-Micro-USB-Charge-Charger/dp/B01AG16KZQ/
>
> Slightly cheaper on Ebay, search there for "scosche usbc242m"
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
> Currently Flying: Glastar
> Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SD-20 Troubleshooting |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Do you have the B and C trouble shooting manual?
http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/BC410-H_Technical_Manual.pdf
There is also a troubleshooting guide in the LR3C Manual.
http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/LR3C_Installation_Manual.pdf#page=8
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478857#478857
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SD-20 Troubleshooting |
Thanks Joe... greatly appreciated
Thanks,
Bill Hunter
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 20:06 user9253 wrote:
>
> Do you have the B and C trouble shooting manual?
> http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/BC410-H_Technical_Manual.pdf
>
> There is also a troubleshooting guide in the LR3C Manual.
> http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/LR3C_Installation_Manual.pdf#page=8
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478857#478857
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
This attitude makes it almost impossible to make a good quality one for a re
asonable price for the OBAM market.
You=99re competing with junky $10 units that don=99t even delive
r their advertised power rating=94 and people think they can just buil
d their own with a 7805.....
Short answer: you can, but it will be useless, and if it does somehow work i
t will dissipate more power in heat than it delivers to the device.
These power supplies are deceptively complicated between the efficiency, noi
se, and interface requirements for the different devices.
Don=99t be so quick to pan the good ones, because at least in this cas
e, if you want a =98good=99 one you=99re probably going to
have to pay for it.
Daniel
> On Mar 24, 2018, at 6:12 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
>
> Good lord, people!! You can pick these power regulators up every day that
plug into a cigarette lighter for $5! They are all an LM357. I have a j
unk drawer full of them. And, the cigarette lighter jack is good for older e
quipment that is configured for it. Why would anyone ever pay over $10 for o
ne?
>
> Why is aviation expensive? Because, people are will to pay for it?
>
>
> On Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:32 PM, "jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com" wrote:
>
>
>
> Wow! I should hope they got good reviews... Based on today's exchange
> rate, the Charge 4 is a bit over $257 (plus shipping)! You could
> purchase eight of the SteinAir version for that!
>
> Another one worthy of consideration if you need/prefer a "horizontal"
> charger would be the Belite Aircraft USB Dual 2.4 amp charger, which
> sells for $75. It can be seen at
> http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/usb-dual-2-4-amp-charger/ (The
> single-port version can also be ordered through Aircraft Spruce, though
> it's a bit more expensive for some reason...)
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Power Supplies
> From: "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com>
> Date: Sat, March 24, 2018 3:07 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I have fitted the two port version of this in my Europa Aircraft. I have
> not used it in flight yet ( only started test flying recently), but it
> has had some very good reviews in the UK
>
> http://www.charge4.co.uk/
>
> --------
> Bob Dawson
> XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478838#478838
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> <= Add some info to the Matronics Email List Wiki!
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
Cheap=interference with radio systems (don't ask how I know)..and fire
risk...should I go on?
Best...
Bob Verwey
082 331 2727
On 25 March 2018 at 01:12, Ernest Christley wrote:
> Good lord, people!! You can pick these power regulators up every day that
> plug into a cigarette lighter for $5! They are all an LM357. I have a
> junk drawer full of them. And, the cigarette lighter jack is good for
> older equipment that is configured for it. Why would anyone ever pay over
> $10 for one?
>
> Why is aviation expensive? Because, people are will to pay for it?
>
>
> On Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:32 PM, "jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com"
> wrote:
>
>
> Wow! I should hope they got good reviews... Based on today's exchange
> rate, the Charge 4 is a bit over $257 (plus shipping)! You could
> purchase eight of the SteinAir version for that!
>
> Another one worthy of consideration if you need/prefer a "horizontal"
> charger would be the Belite Aircraft USB Dual 2.4 amp charger, which
> sells for $75. It can be seen at
> http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/usb-dual-2-4-amp-charger/ (The
> single-port version can also be ordered through Aircraft Spruce, though
> it's a bit more expensive for some reason...)
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Power Supplies
> From: "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com>
> Date: Sat, March 24, 2018 3:07 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I have fitted the two port version of this in my Europa Aircraft. I have
> not used it in flight yet ( only started test flying recently), but it
> has had some very good reviews in the UK
>
> http://www.charge4.co.uk/
>
> --------
> Bob Dawson
> XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478838#478838
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> <= Add some info to the Matronics Email List Wiki!
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
| From: | "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com> |
Wow! - I never expected to stir up such a hornet's nest [Rolling Eyes] :D
I chose the Charge2 for two reasons:
1. As has been mentioned here, I had experience of the lousy performance of cheap
cigarette lighter adaptors in my C182
2. Having spent an age (and a fortune) designing my "perfect" Control Panel for
my new homebuild, I wanted something plumbed in that was aesthetically pleasing,
and harmonised with the other instruments (Dynon).
The original requirement was for something to power my PilotAware in the 182, and
followed a lot of discussion on the PAW Forum. I understand from there that
for those who had no option but to follow the cigarette lighter approach, (or
wanted a cheaper option), one of the Anker adaptors fitted the bill.
Blue Skies
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478861#478861
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 3/25/2018 1:53 AM, Daniel Hooper wrote:
> Youre competing with junky $10 units that dont even deliver their
> advertised power rating
You are also competing with good ~$10 units that deliver the power,
don't overheat, and aren't causing radio interference, but you are
correct that there are a lot of junk ones out there, which is why I and
others have offered feedback on units we've tried.
If it doesn't work out, you have a $10 (or $12 in my case) unit you can
use in the car, or, do like I did and test it in the car for a few
months before using it in the plane.
I completely agree with you that this is a hard market to compete in,
simply because there are so many good options available at a wide range
of price points.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Currently Flying: Glastar
Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
Ernest:
Are you kidding??? $10?
WOW! That is ridiculous! ! !
Just look at ACS... You can get an FAA approved USB power output for the
mere $349.00
Talk about a Fool and their money!!
Barry
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 7:12 PM, Ernest Christley
wrote:
> Good lord, people!! You can pick these power regulators up every day that
> plug into a cigarette lighter for $5! They are all an LM357. I have a
> junk drawer full of them. And, the cigarette lighter jack is good for
> older equipment that is configured for it. Why would anyone ever pay over
> $10 for one?
>
> Why is aviation expensive? Because, people are will to pay for it?
>
>
> On Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:32 PM, "jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com"
> wrote:
>
>
> Wow! I should hope they got good reviews... Based on today's exchange
> rate, the Charge 4 is a bit over $257 (plus shipping)! You could
> purchase eight of the SteinAir version for that!
>
> Another one worthy of consideration if you need/prefer a "horizontal"
> charger would be the Belite Aircraft USB Dual 2.4 amp charger, which
> sells for $75. It can be seen at
> http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/usb-dual-2-4-amp-charger/ (The
> single-port version can also be ordered through Aircraft Spruce, though
> it's a bit more expensive for some reason...)
>
> Jim Parker
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Power Supplies
> From: "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com>
> Date: Sat, March 24, 2018 3:07 am
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I have fitted the two port version of this in my Europa Aircraft. I have
> not used it in flight yet ( only started test flying recently), but it
> has had some very good reviews in the UK
>
> http://www.charge4.co.uk/
>
> --------
> Bob Dawson
> XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478838#478838
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> <= Add some info to the Matronics Email List Wiki!
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
Ernest, because I don=99t want the $5 charger killing my +$1,000
audio in the airplane. I have gone through a handful already in my
airplane. They are not all created equal.
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of Ernest
Christley
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Power Supplies
Good lord, people!! You can pick these power regulators up every day
that plug into a cigarette lighter for $5! They are all an LM357. I
have a junk drawer full of them. And, the cigarette lighter jack is
good for older equipment that is configured for it. Why would anyone
ever pay over $10 for one?
Why is aviation expensive? Because, people are will to pay for it?
On Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:32 PM, "jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com
" > wrote:
>
Wow! I should hope they got good reviews... Based on today's exchange
rate, the Charge 4 is a bit over $257 (plus shipping)! You could
purchase eight of the SteinAir version for that!
Another one worthy of consideration if you need/prefer a "horizontal"
charger would be the Belite Aircraft USB Dual 2.4 amp charger, which
sells for $75. It can be seen at
http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/usb-dual-2-4-amp-charger/
<http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/usb-dual-2-4-amp-charger/> (The
single-port version can also be ordered through Aircraft Spruce, though
it's a bit more expensive for some reason...)
Jim Parker
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Power Supplies
From: "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com <mailto:rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com> >
Date: Sat, March 24, 2018 3:07 am
>
I have fitted the two port version of this in my Europa Aircraft. I have
not used it in flight yet ( only started test flying recently), but it
has had some very good reviews in the UK
http://www.charge4.co.uk/
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478838#478838
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
<= Add some info to the Matronics Email List Wiki!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: USB Power Supplies |
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
FWIW, I purchased a single USB plug unit from Stein a few years ago.
Charges at 2amps, no interference noticed, looks good panel installed.
Wish a two port version was available from Stein back then.
On 3/23/2018 9:48 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> John,
>
> Thank you! I don't know why I didn't think of checking SteinAir. That
> looks perfect.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 8:24 AM, John Morgensen > wrote:
>
> I installed one of these from SteinAir:
>
>> https://www.steinair.com/product/dual-usb-panel-jack/
>>
>
> Couldn't be happier.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SD-20 Troubleshooting |
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
I just went through the troubleshooting for that same configuration.
After doing the procedure for the LR3, one finding didn't match the
spec. I reviewed the results with B&C and they were able to tell me
with confidence the LR3 failed (1,000 hours) - could be repaired or
new. All good now.
On 3/24/2018 11:08 PM, William Hunter wrote:
> Thanks Joe... greatly appreciated
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Hunter
>
> On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 20:06 user9253 > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Do you have the B and C trouble shooting manual?
> http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/BC410-H_Technical_Manual.pdf
>
> There is also a troubleshooting guide in the LR3C Manual.
> http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/LR3C_Installation_Manual.pdf#page=8
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478857#478857
>
>
> ==========
> -
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
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> eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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> errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
Bob, perhaps you can help me find a SPDT (1-5) switch for flap control where the
bat doesn't rotate. Years ago you published a piece on how to make a little
flap lever out of a solid piece of aluminum that goes over the toggle and gets
held there by a couple of set screws. The only ones I have found all have
bats or toggles that rotate and this is not good. Do you recall which switch
it was? Thanks!
--------
RV-6
RV-7
Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478894#478894
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rv7a.builder(at)yahoo.com" <rv7a.builder(at)yahoo.com> |
Aircraft Spruce # 11-11337
Sent from the Yahoo Mail app. Get yours!
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Pat Hatch wrote: --
Bob, perhaps you can help me find a SPDT (1-5) switch=C2- for flap contro
l where the bat doesn't rotate.=C2- Years ago you published a piece on ho
w to make a little flap lever out of a solid piece of aluminum that goes ov
er the toggle and gets held there by a couple of set screws.=C2- The only
ones I have found all have bats or toggles that rotate and this is not goo
d.=C2- Do you recall which switch it was?=C2- Thanks!
--------
RV-6
RV-7
Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478894#478894
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: SD-20 Troubleshooting |
So now you are Bill problem solved Watson, right?
Couldn=99t resist
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 27/03/2018, =C3-s 19:59, Bill Watson escrev
eu:
> I just went through the troubleshooting for that same configuration. Afte
r doing the procedure for the LR3, one finding didn't match the spec. I rev
iewed the results with B&C and they were able to tell me with confidence the
LR3 failed (1,000 hours) - could be repaired or new. All good now.
>
>> On 3/24/2018 11:08 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>> Thanks Joe... greatly appreciated
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bill Hunter
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 20:06 user9253 wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you have the B and C trouble shooting manual?
>>> http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/BC410-H_Technical_Manual.pdf
>>>
>>> There is also a troubleshooting guide in the LR3C Manual.
>>> http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/LR3C_Installation_Manual.pdf#page=8
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Joe Gores
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478857#478857
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> -
>>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
Surely this will answer your requirements:
http://www.aircraftspecialty.com/rvall1.html
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478897#478897
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
Thanks, guys. Actually, I have the flap handle (toggle). I need the[u] switch[/u],
one that has a bat that doesn't rotate. All the ones I've tried have a
toggle that rotates in the switch such that the flap handle will not stay horizontal.
--------
RV-6
RV-7
Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478900#478900
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Voltage Regulator Damage? |
Folks,
I am writing my POH, patterning it after the POH for a Vans RV-12. That
manual has a warning, "Do not turn off the Master switch with the engine
running except in an EMERGENCY situation. Running the engine with the
Master Switch off may damage the voltage regulator."
I have a Lycoming motor with B&C voltage regulators, LR3C-14 and SB1B-14.
I have never seen a warning like in the RV-12. Is this something
Rotax-specific? Should I have a similar warning in my POH?
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Damage? |
Art:
Rotax is RATAX... Forget about IT!
Now, since you are flying a Lycoming the MASTER should be a SPLIT
MASTER/ALTERNATOR.
Automatically with a Split Master when you shut off the Master you also
shut off the Alternator.
If the Alternator (ALT) is OFF you removed voltage from the Field of the
Alternator.
NO DAMAGE will be done to the Alternator or the ACU.
Barry
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I am writing my POH, patterning it after the POH for a Vans RV-12. That
> manual has a warning, "Do not turn off the Master switch with the engine
> running except in an EMERGENCY situation. Running the engine with the
> Master Switch off may damage the voltage regulator."
>
> I have a Lycoming motor with B&C voltage regulators, LR3C-14 and SB1B-14.
>
> I have never seen a warning like in the RV-12. Is this something
> Rotax-specific? Should I have a similar warning in my POH?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Damage? |
Barry,
I appreciate your thoughts but I have three separate switches: Master,
Alternator, and Backup Alternator.
For all the detail, here is my wiring diagram:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12DhiCdTSuUNvlsmBK027yQ1mDDy5eRUl/view?usp=sharing
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:07 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Art:
>
> Rotax is RATAX... Forget about IT!
>
> Now, since you are flying a Lycoming the MASTER should be a SPLIT
> MASTER/ALTERNATOR.
> Automatically with a Split Master when you shut off the Master you also
> shut off the Alternator.
> If the Alternator (ALT) is OFF you removed voltage from the Field of the
> Alternator.
> NO DAMAGE will be done to the Alternator or the ACU.
>
> Barry
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I am writing my POH, patterning it after the POH for a Vans RV-12. That
>> manual has a warning, "Do not turn off the Master switch with the engine
>> running except in an EMERGENCY situation. Running the engine with the
>> Master Switch off may damage the voltage regulator."
>>
>> I have a Lycoming motor with B&C voltage regulators, LR3C-14
>> and SB1B-14.
>>
>> I have never seen a warning like in the RV-12. Is this something
>> Rotax-specific? Should I have a similar warning in my POH?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
>> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>>
>
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Damage? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I have an RV-12. A couple of years ago, my PC680 battery failed during flight
with an internal broken weld, later found by Bob N. The battery was effectively
disconnected from the aircraft electrical system just as if the master switch
was shut off. No damage occurred to the voltage regulator or any other component.
The symptom during flight was unstable voltage, swinging from too high
to too low. You can read about it here:
http://www.matronics.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16762906&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start &sid=5c9d8b0067c9a54cf7a0a3c0ea1ac72f
I see no reason why an open master contactor during flight would cause damage
to the voltage regulator. After all, the regulator turns itself on and off many
time per second during normal operation
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478904#478904
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Bartrim <bartrim(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | X-com with Garmin Speak |
I have an X-com 760 and I see on their website that they are now equipped
with "Garmin Speak", which will automatically select the next appropriate
standby channel based on info from a compatible Garmin GPS.
I recently sent the radio in for an update so it is up to date and
apparently capable of this but when I inquired about how to set up this
feature I was told a technician would contact me with the info. I never
heard from him and several more inquiries went unanswered. This was a few
months ago, so I just sent another request for info tonight, but I thought
maybe someone on this list may have experience with this.
Todd Bartrim
C-FSTB
RV9
Turbo13B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Damage? |
Hello Art:
I tried two methods of printing the schematic but neither worked.
The schematic is larger than the 8.5x11 printer paper.
My eyes are not as good as they use to be and reading off the screen does
not give me the ability to hi-lite and make notes.
>From many years of other people's the first thing I would change it the
ITEM 1 Buss. The constant ON buss will bite you in the ARS (ass). At some
point you WILL leave the Dome light ON and drain your battery. The
constant ON for the electronic ignition, well, that you do need.
Getting back to the MASTER/ALT SWITCH:
YES! It is wired in correctly .
BUT! The schematic does NOT show it mechanically correct. The dotted line
shows the switch as both the Master and Alt being Mechanically connected
ALL THE TIME. Meaning: When the Master is On the Alt is On. and you NOT
having the ability to turn the Alt OFF with the Master On. I'd bet dollars
to donuts you DO have separate control over the Master and Alt.
SO! When you Want to or Have to separate the Alternator from the system
you sure can. And... Don't worry about that garbage from ROTAX. Isn't it
great having a properly designed system!
Barry
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Barry,
>
> I appreciate your thoughts but I have three separate switches: Master,
> Alternator, and Backup Alternator.
> For all the detail, here is my wiring diagram: https://drive.google.
> com/file/d/12DhiCdTSuUNvlsmBK027yQ1mDDy5eRUl/view?usp=sharing
>
> Cheers,
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:07 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
>> Art:
>>
>> Rotax is RATAX... Forget about IT!
>>
>> Now, since you are flying a Lycoming the MASTER should be a SPLIT
>> MASTER/ALTERNATOR.
>> Automatically with a Split Master when you shut off the Master you also
>> shut off the Alternator.
>> If the Alternator (ALT) is OFF you removed voltage from the Field of the
>> Alternator.
>> NO DAMAGE will be done to the Alternator or the ACU.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> I am writing my POH, patterning it after the POH for a Vans RV-12. That
>>> manual has a warning, "Do not turn off the Master switch with the
>>> engine running except in an EMERGENCY situation. Running the engine
>>> with the Master Switch off may damage the voltage regulator."
>>>
>>> I have a Lycoming motor with B&C voltage regulators, LR3C-14
>>> and SB1B-14.
>>>
>>> I have never seen a warning like in the RV-12. Is this something
>>> Rotax-specific? Should I have a similar warning in my POH?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -- Art Z.
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>>
>>> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
>>> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 05:13 PM 3/27/2018, you wrote:
>Aircraft Spruce # 11-11337
>
>Sent
>from the Yahoo Mail app. Get yours!
>
>On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Pat Hatch
> wrote:
><pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
>
>Bob, perhaps you can help me find a SPDT (1-5) switch for flap
>control where the bat doesn't rotate. Years ago you published a
>piece on how to make a little flap lever out of a solid piece of
>aluminum that goes over the toggle and gets held there by a couple
>of set screws. The only ones I have found all have bats or toggles
>that rotate and this is not good. Do you recall which switch it was? Thanks!
Yes . . .
You need a switch that with a restrained
handle such as the Honeywell 2TL1-5.
The Dash 5 is a 3 position that is stable
in two extremes and spring loaded out of the
third? Is this the action your seeking?
Shop around a bit . . . they come in all
$sizes$ . . .
https://goo.gl/FQfTRF
https://goo.gl/va48he
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 05:13 PM 3/27/2018, you wrote:
>Aircraft Spruce # 11-11337
>
>Sent
>from the Yahoo Mail app. Get yours!
>
>On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Pat Hatch
> wrote:
><pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
>Bob, perhaps you can help me find a SPDT (1-5) switch for flap
>control where the bat doesn't rotate. Years ago you published a
>piece on how to make a little flap lever out of a solid piece of
>aluminum that goes over the toggle and gets held there by a couple
>of set screws. The only ones I have found all have bats or toggles
>that rotate and this is not good. Do you recall which switch it was? Thanks!
Yes . . .
You need a switch that with a restrained
handle such as the Honeywell 2TL1-5.
The Dash 5 is a 3 position that is stable
in two extremes and spring loaded out of the
third? Is this the action your seeking?
Shop around a bit . . . they come in all
$sizes$ . . .
https://goo.gl/FQfTRF
https://goo.gl/va48he
Emacs!
Found a picture of this switch with the nuts
removed. You can see the end of the handle
shaft. Anyone who supplies this kind of switch
as a MilSpec device will probably have the same
feature.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Pat:
If you LQQK into the switch where the 'bat' enters AND you see a rubber
shield. Those switches have a dust/moisture barrier and they do not rotate.
You can make the lever out of aluminum, hardwood or even use a 3D printer.
If you use set-screws do a little grinding on the bat to make a flat for
the set-screw to bite into.
Barry
On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 8:48 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 05:13 PM 3/27/2018, you wrote:
>
> Aircraft Spruce # 11-11337
>
> Sent from the Yahoo Mail app. Get yours!
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Pat Hatch
> wrote:
>
> Bob, perhaps you can help me find a SPDT (1-5) switch for flap control
> where the bat doesn't rotate. Years ago you published a piece on how to
> make a little flap lever out of a solid piece of aluminum that goes over
> the toggle and gets held there by a couple of set screws. The only ones I
> have found all have bats or toggles that rotate and this is not good. Do
> you recall which switch it was? Thanks!
> Yes . . .
>
> You need a switch that with a restrained
> handle such as the Honeywell 2TL1-5.
>
> The Dash 5 is a 3 position that is stable
> in two extremes and spring loaded out of the
> third? Is this the action your seeking?
>
> Shop around a bit . . . they come in all
> $sizes$ . . .
>
> https://goo.gl/FQfTRF
>
> https://goo.gl/va48he
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <websurfshop(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio |
I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio in my
plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery failure.
The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out 13.5v at
1000mA. How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it limits the
current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord off the AC-DC
adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
Thanks, David
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the voltage isn't
too high=2E The fuse protects=C2- the wire=2E 1A fuse would be marginal,
since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near the design output cu
rrent of the supply=2E
Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
fuse to the a/c bus=2E Or better, just buy the proper connector and some w
ire, and keep the existing power supply intact=2E
=81=A3Charlie
=8B
On Mar 30, 2018, 12:48 AM, at 12:48 AM, David wrote:
>I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio
in my
>plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery fail
ure=2E
>The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out 13
=2E5v at
>1000mA=2E How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it
limits
>the
>current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord o
ff the
>AC-DC
>adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
>
>Tha
nks, David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <websurfshop(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/29/18 |
Ok, thanks, I got out my special email decoder and deciphered the message
;-)
The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the voltage isn't
too high=2E The fuse protects=C2- the wire=2E 1A fuse would be marginal,
since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near the design output cu
rrent of the supply=2E
Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
fuse to the a/c bus=2E Or better, just buy the proper connector and some w
ire, and keep the existing power supply intact=2E
=81=A3Charlie
=8B
On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 11:30 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server <
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of
> the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=html&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=txt&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 03/29/18: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 09:43 PM - Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio (David)
> 2. 10:03 PM - Re: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio
> (Charlie England)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: David <websurfshop(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio
>
> I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio in my
> plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery failure.
> The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out 13.5v at
> 1000mA. How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it limits the
> current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord off the AC-DC
> adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
>
> Thanks, David
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio
> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the voltage isn't
> too high=2E The fuse protects=C2- the wire=2E 1A fuse would be marginal,
> since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near the design output cu
> rrent of the supply=2E
>
> Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
> fuse to the a/c bus=2E Or better, just buy the proper connector and some w
> ire, and keep the existing power supply intact=2E
>
> =81=A3Charlie
> =8B
>
> On Mar 30, 2018, 12:48 AM, at 12:48 AM, David > wrote:
> >I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio
> in my
> >plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery fail
> ure=2E
> >The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out 13
> =2E5v at
> >1000mA=2E How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it
> limits
> >the
> >current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord o
> ff the
> >AC-DC
> >adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
> >
> >Tha
> nks, David
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/29/18 |
Talk about needing a DECODER RING!!!
Please re-post WITHOUT using any icons or quotes.
Barry
PS
I lost my Decoder in a jar of Ovaltine.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 11:56 AM, David wrote:
> Ok, thanks, I got out my special email decoder and deciphered the message
> ;-)
>
> The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the voltage isn't
> too high=2E The fuse protects=C2- the wire=2E 1A fuse would be marginal,
> since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near the design output cu
> rrent of the supply=2E
>
> Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
> fuse to the a/c bus=2E Or better, just buy the proper connector and some w
> ire, and keep the existing power supply intact=2E
>
> =81=A3Charlie
> =8B
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 11:30 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server <
> aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
>
>> *
>>
>> =================================================
>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>> =================================================
>>
>> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of
>> the
>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
>> editor
>> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>
>> HTML Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&
>> View=html&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric
>>
>> Text Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&
>> View=txt&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric
>>
>>
>> ===============================================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ===============================================
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Thu 03/29/18: 2
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 09:43 PM - Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio (David)
>> 2. 10:03 PM - Re: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio
>> (Charlie England)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> From: David <websurfshop(at)gmail.com>
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio
>>
>> I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio in my
>> plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery failure.
>> The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out 13.5v at
>> 1000mA. How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it limits the
>> current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord off the AC-DC
>> adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
>>
>> Thanks, David
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio
>> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the voltage
>> isn't
>> too high=2E The fuse protects=C2- the wire=2E 1A fuse would be marginal,
>> since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near the design output
>> cu
>> rrent of the supply=2E
>>
>> Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
>> fuse to the a/c bus=2E Or better, just buy the proper connector and some
>> w
>> ire, and keep the existing power supply intact=2E
>>
>> =81=A3Charlie
>> =8B
>>
>> On Mar 30, 2018, 12:48 AM, at 12:48 AM, David > > wrote:
>> >I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio
>> in my
>> >plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery fail
>> ure=2E
>> >The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out 13
>> =2E5v at
>> >1000mA=2E How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it
>> limits
>> >the
>> >current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord o
>> ff the
>> >AC-DC
>> >adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
>> >
>> >Tha
>> nks, David
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -
>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
>> Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ===================================
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/29/18 |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
I don't know where the extra characters came from=2E But I'll be happy to r
efrain from trying to help you in the future=2E :-)
=81=A3Charlie
=8B
On Apr 1, 2018, 10:12 AM, at 10:12 AM, FLYaDIVE
wrote:
>Talk about needing a DECODER RING!!!
>
>Please re-post WITHOUT us
ing any icons or quotes=2E
>
>Barry
>PS
>I lost my Decoder in a jar of Oval
tine=2E
>
>
>On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 11:56 AM, David wrote:
>
>> Ok, thanks, I got out my special email decoder and decipher
ed the
>message
>> ;-)
>>
>> The radio will only draw the current it needs,
as long as the voltage
>isn't
>> too high=2E The fuse protects=C2- th
e wire=2E 1A fuse would be
>marginal,
>> since you can expect the radio
to draw somewhere near the design
>output cu
>> rrent of the supply=2E
>>
>> Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
>> fuse to the a/c
bus=2E Or better, just buy the proper connector and
>some w
>> ire, and k
eep the existing power supply intact=2E
>>
>> =81=A3Charlie
>> =8B
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 11:30 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server <
>
> aeroelectric-list@matronics=2Ecom> wrote:
>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> ====
====================
>>> Onli
ne Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>>> =========
===============
>>>
>>> Today's complete A
eroElectric-List Digest can also be found in
>either of
>>> the
>>> two Web
Links listed below=2E The =2Ehtml file includes the Digest
>formatted
>>>
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
>Indexes
>
>> and Message Navigation=2E The =2Etxt file includes the plain ASCII
>ver
sion
>>> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
>
text
>>> editor
>>> such as Notepad or with a web browser=2E
>>>
>>> HTML V
ersion:
>>>
>>> http://www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/digest/digestview=2Ephp?St
yle=82701&
>>> View=html&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric
>>
>
>>> Text Version:
>>>
>>> http://www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/digest/digestv
iew=2Ephp?Style=82701&
>>> View=txt&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=Aero
Electric
>>>
>>>
>>> =================
=====
>>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>>>
========================
=======================
>>
>
>>>
>>>
>-----------------------------------------------------
-----
>>> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
>>>
---
>>> Total Mes
sages Posted Thu 03/29/18: 2
>>>
>------------------------------
----------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Message Index:
>>> -------
---------------
>>>
>>> 1=2E 09:43 PM - Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 ha
ndheld radio
>(David)
>>> 2=2E 10:03 PM - Re: Hardwire an old ICOM IC
-A21 handheld radio
>>> (Charlie England)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________
_______________ Message 1
>>> _____________________________________
>>>
>>
>
>>> From: David <websurfshop@gmail=2Ecom>
>>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld
>radio
>
>>
>>> I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio in
>my
>>> plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery
>fa
ilure=2E
>>> The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out
13=2E5v
>at
>>> 1000mA=2E How can I hardwire power to the radio and make
sure it
>limits the
>>> current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut
the cord off the
>AC-DC
>>> adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp
fuse?
>>>
>>> Thanks, David
>>>
>>> ________________________________ Mes
sage 2
>>> _____________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Time: 10:03:29
>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21
handheld
>radio
>>> From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail=2Ecom>
>>>
>>>
The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the
>voltage
>>>
isn't
>>> too high=2E The fuse protects=C2- the wire=2E 1A fuse woul
d be
>marginal,
>>> since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near
the design
>output
>>> cu
>>> rrent of the supply=2E
>>>
>>> Cut the wire
off the adapter, connect through a 2A
>>> fuse to the a/c bus=2E Or bet
ter, just buy the proper connector and
>some
>>> w
>>> ire, and keep the ex
isting power supply intact=2E
>>>
>>> =81=A3Charlie
>>> =8B
>>>
>>>
On Mar 30, 2018, 12:48 AM, at 12:48 AM, David
>>> > wrote:
>>> >I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handhe
ld radio
>>> in my
>>> >plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of r
adio battery fail
>>> ure=2E
>>> >The radio came with a wall plug AC to D
C adapter that puts out 13
>>> =2E5v at
>>> >1000mA=2E How can I hardw
ire power to the radio and make sure it
>>> limits
>>> >the
>>> >current s
o I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord o
>>> ff the
>>> >AC-DC
>>> >adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
>>> >
>>> >Tha
>
>> nks, David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==============
=====================
>>> -
>>
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
>target="_blank">http://www=2Ematroni
cs=2Ecom/
>>> Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> =========
=
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums=2Ematronic
s=2Ecom
>>> =====================
==============
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target
="_blank">http://wiki=2Ematronics=2Ecom
>>> =========
=
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin=2E
>>> rel="no
referrer"
>target="_blank">http://www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/29/18 |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
David,
Just so you know, that garbage got inserted somewhere between my phone
and the Matronics server. I looked up my response in Matt's archive. Not
only do the extra characters show up in my reply, they also show up in
your original message, which was quoted in my reply. It appears that at
least some of the extra characters are HEX versions of ascii punctuation
characters. (ex: 2E is ascii for a period.) Since they show up in the
quoted text of your original post, the message had to have been trashed
at some point during its trip from my phone to the Matronics server.
Were you able to sort out the actual message? (I cleaned it up below.)
On 3/30/2018 10:56 AM, David wrote:
> Ok, thanks, I got out my special email decoder and deciphered the
> message ;-)
>
> The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the voltage
> isn't
> too high. The fuse protects the wire. 1A fuse would be marginal,
> since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near the design
> output current of the supply.
>
> Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
> fuse to the a/c bus. Or better, just buy the proper connector and
> some wire,
and keep the existing power supply intact.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 11:30 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server
> > wrote:
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in
> either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version
> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric
> <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric>
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric
> <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric>
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 03/29/18: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 09:43 PM - Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio (David)
> 2. 10:03 PM - Re: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio
> (Charlie England)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: David <websurfshop(at)gmail.com <mailto:websurfshop(at)gmail.com>>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio
>
> I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio
> in my
> plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery
> failure.
> The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out
> 13.5v at
> 1000mA. How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it
> limits the
> current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord off
> the AC-DC
> adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
>
> Thanks, David
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21
> handheld radio
> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com
> >
>
> The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the
> voltage isn't
> too high=2E The fuse protects=C2- the wire=2E 1A fuse would be
> marginal,
> since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near the design
> output cu
> rrent of the supply=2E
>
> Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
> fuse to the a/c bus=2E Or better, just buy the proper connector
> and some w
> ire, and keep the existing power supply intact=2E
>
> =81=A3Charlie
> =8B
>
> On Mar 30, 2018, 12:48 AM, at 12:48 AM, David > wrote:
> >I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio
> in my
> >plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery fail
> ure=2E
> >The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out 13
> =2E5v at
> >1000mA=2E How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it
> limits
> >the
> >current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord o
> ff the
> >AC-DC
> >adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
> >
> >Tha
> nks, David
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/29/18 |
| From: | Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> |
Charlie
It should not have been necessary for you to explain or apologize. I was abl
e to read and understand your initial response by simply ignoring the extra c
haracters which I would have expected any reasonable person to do.
Thank you for your many helpful responses and please don=99t let the f
ew ungrateful souls stop you.
Bob Reed
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 1, 2018, at 5:52 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> David,
>
> Just so you know, that garbage got inserted somewhere between my phone and
the Matronics server. I looked up my response in Matt's archive. Not only d
o the extra characters show up in my reply, they also show up in your origin
al message, which was quoted in my reply. It appears that at least some of t
he extra characters are HEX versions of ascii punctuation characters. (ex: 2
E is ascii for a period.) Since they show up in the quoted text of your orig
inal post, the message had to have been trashed at some point during its tri
p from my phone to the Matronics server.
>
> Were you able to sort out the actual message? (I cleaned it up below.)
>
>> On 3/30/2018 10:56 AM, David wrote:
>> Ok, thanks, I got out my special email decoder and deciphered the message
;-)
>>
>> The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the voltage isn
't
>> too high. The fuse protects the wire. 1A fuse would be marginal,
>> since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near the design output c
urrent of the supply.
>>
>> Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
>> fuse to the a/c bus. Or better, just buy the proper connector and some w
ire,
> and keep the existing power supply intact.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 11:30 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
>>> *
>>>
>>> ========================
==========================
>>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>>> ========================
==========================
>>>
>>> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
>>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatte
d
>>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>>> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text ed
itor
>>> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>>
>>> HTML Version:
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=
html&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric
>>>
>>> Text Version:
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=
txt&Chapter 18-03-29&Archive=AeroElectric
>>>
>>>
>>> ========================
=======================
>>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>>> ========================
=======================
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
>>> ---
>>> Total Messages Posted Thu 03/29/18: 2
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Message Index:
>>> ----------------------
>>>
>>> 1. 09:43 PM - Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio (David)
>>> 2. 10:03 PM - Re: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio (Char
lie England)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________ Message 1 _______________
______________________
>>>
>>>
>>> From: David <websurfshop(at)gmail.com>
>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld radio
>>>
>>> I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio in my
>>> plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery failure.
>>> The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out 13.5v at
>>> 1000mA. How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it limits t
he
>>> current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord off the AC-D
C
>>> adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
>>>
>>> Thanks, David
>>>
>>> ________________________________ Message 2 _______________
______________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hardwire an old ICOM IC-A21 handheld rad
io
>>> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>>>
>>> The radio will only draw the current it needs, as long as the voltage is
n't
>>> too high=2E The fuse protects=C2- the wire=2E 1A fuse would be ma
rginal,
>>> since you can expect the radio to draw somewhere near the design output
cu
>>> rrent of the supply=2E
>>>
>>> Cut the wire off the adapter, connect through a 2A
>>> fuse to the a/c bus=2E Or better, just buy the proper connector and s
ome w
>>> ire, and keep the existing power supply intact=2E
>>>
>>> =81=A3Charlie
>>> =8B
>>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2018, 12:48 AM, at 12:48 AM, David >> > wrote:
>>> >I would like to provide power to an older ICOM A21 handheld radio
>>> in my
>>> >plane outfitted with an B&C SD-8, in the case of radio battery fail
>>> ure=2E
>>> >The radio came with a wall plug AC to DC adapter that puts out 13
>>> =2E5v at
>>> >1000mA=2E How can I hardwire power to the radio and make sure it
>>> limits
>>> >the
>>> >current so I don't smoke my radio? Can I just cut the cord o
>>> ff the
>>> >AC-DC
>>> >adapter and run it to a fuse block with a 1 amp fuse?
>>> >
>>> >Tha
>>> nks, David
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <websurfshop(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/01/18 |
>
> =8BThanks Charlie, your suggestion helped. Some things in life are
funny,
> especially when you are trying to figure out something new. I was not
> annoyed by the special characters at all, just wanted to poke some fun.
My
> emails must be like transmitting with my handheld radio, not always the
> clearest and with extra "character." Clearance issued as you heard it.
> =8B
> I have decided to install a couple of 12v sockets in the panel.=8B
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/01/18 |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 4/2/2018 10:26 AM, David wrote:
>
> Thanks Charlie, your suggestion helped. Some things in life are
> funny, especially when you are trying to figure out something
> new. I was not annoyed by the special characters at all, just
> wanted to poke some fun. My emails must be like transmitting with
> my handheld radio, not always the clearest and with extra
> "character." Clearance issued as you heard it.
>
>
>
> I have decided to install a couple of 12v sockets in the panel.
>
Glad it helped!
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | two different Z-33 diagrams |
Hi,
I have a printout of a Z-33 that shows how to wire pmags so that you can do
maintenance on them, but I can't find this diagram any longer. The Z-33 I
find is about Dual Power Path for Battery Contactors.
Is there an updated Z diagram that talks about the best way to wire the
pmags so that you can also do maintenance on them?
Thanks,
Mickey
Mickey Coggins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | insulation support for crimps |
Bob et al.
I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example,
ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG
brand insulated crimps.
If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex krimptite and I oversleeve with heat
shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of
the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation
support?
Alec
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
Alec:
The insulated lug below a #10 AWG is a FAA requirement. It has a bit of a
safety requirement.
Using the Shrink Tubing sort of satisfies that safety requirement.
How well the safety issue is satisfied, I don't know.
Would I do what you suggest?
YES, but, I would also consider the voltage, the amperage and the proximity
to neighboring terminals.
I would also be using a LOCK WASHER or a LOCK NUT on ALL terminals.
If you satisfy what YOU as the builder consider SAFE, then the project may
just be safe.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> Bob et al.
>
> I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into,
> for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that
> provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.
>
> If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex =9Ckrimptite=9D an
d I oversleeve
> with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over
a
> half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the la
ck
> of other insulation support?
>
> Alec
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John <rv6a(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Warm Toggle Switch |
Hello
My RV6A has been flying for a little over nine years. On a recent flight I noticed
that the strobe toggle switch behind the panel was warm . I have an Aeroflash
Nav/Strobe light combination with independent power packs for each strobe.
The power packs, according to the product documentation, draw 2.7 amps each.
My toggle switch is a S700-1-3. The toggle switch is a S700-1-3 and the
circuit is protected by a 7.5 amp fuse. The fuse has never blown. The Nav lights
are switched/fused separately
I have pulled the strobe fuse until I get this sorted out. I am wondering if this
is too much current draw for this particular switch and that I should incorporate
a relay into the circuit. Perhaps the switch has reached its end of service.
Thoughts?
John C
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
There is history in the archives on this happening when the rivets
attaching the terminal lugs onto the switch are not tight enough.
Yes it's time for a new switch.
Ken
On 02/04/2018 7:11 PM, John wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> My RV6A has been flying for a little over nine years. On a recent flight I noticed
that the strobe toggle switch behind the panel was warm . I have an Aeroflash
Nav/Strobe light combination with independent power packs for each strobe.
The power packs, according to the product documentation, draw 2.7 amps
each. My toggle switch is a S700-1-3. The toggle switch is a S700-1-3 and the
circuit is protected by a 7.5 amp fuse. The fuse has never blown. The Nav
lights are switched/fused separately
>
> I have pulled the strobe fuse until I get this sorted out. I am wondering if
this is too much current draw for this particular switch and that I should incorporate
a relay into the circuit. Perhaps the switch has reached its end of
service.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> John C
> RV6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 4/2/2018 5:11 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> Bob et al.
>
> I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for
example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by
PIDG brand insulated crimps.
>
> If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex krimptite and I oversleeve with heat
shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch
of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation
support?
>
> Alec
I wouldn't hesitate to use that technique on my plane (I've actually
done it in a few places). It's worth mentioning that the wire should
still be supported within a few inches of the connector, regardless of
the terminator you use.
Whenever we get all wrapped up in state of the art perfection, it's
worth remembering that there are planes still flying with terminators
on their wires that were applied before PIDG terminals existed; probably
before crimp terminals existed at all. :-)
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
John:
Yes, the switch may be the problem. Your switch S700-1-3 is a 15 Amp
rating on AC. Which is NOT 15 Amps on DC. A good rule of thumb is the
switch should be able to handle DOUBLE the DC amperage that the circuit
draws. There are a couple of ways of determining the DC rating of an AC
Switch. You can say take .707 x Rating or .637 x Rating. So: 15 Amps x
.707 = 10.6 Amps // or 15 Amps x .637 = 9.5 Amps.
They are average type switches, they are not hermetically sealed, the
contacts are not silver plated. There could very easily be corrosion on
the contacts and that raises the resistance of the circuit. The higher
resistance can very easily cause HEAT at that contact point AND you are
FEELING IT!
Find a better quality switch. I like taking a DPST (Double Pole Single
Throw) Switch and wiring BOTH Sides together so it functions as a SPST
(Single Throw Single Throw) Switch. So, in your case you would have a
total AC Rating of 30 Amps which would be able to handle either 19 Amps or
21 Amps DC. AND the physical properties of the switch would be much more
robust that that S700-1-3 switch.
BUT! DON'T STOP THERE! Other things in the circuit can be causing higher
current draw.
1 - Sales brochures generally BOAST better ratings that that actually
exist. The Strobe may very well be drawing higher than advertised.
2 - Check the connections of the switch. If they are SCREW Terminals use
star lock washers. If they are FAST-ON terminals, how easy do they slide
on/off? Squeeze them with needle nose pliers so they are Very Snug.
3 - How are other connections in the circuit?
4 - You mentioned FUSE, check the fuse holder for any signs of corrosion.
Clean it with Scotch-Brite and Contact Cleaner.
Resistance is resistance no matter where it is and that causes an increase
in current draw.
Barry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Alec,
Like the others, I wouldn't hesitate to use the method you described. I would,
however, use adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing. It helps to keep moisture out
of your crimps and it grips the wire insulation and terminal better than non-adhesive
tubing. I usually have the best luck with tubing that has higher shrink
ratio; I generally buy 3:1 or 4:1, which gives more leeway for diameter mismatch.
Here's a Digi-Key search sorted for only adhesive-lined shrink tubing:
https://preview.tinyurl.com/y8e5xz9d
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478996#478996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eckenroth <paul(at)eckenroth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
I believe this is my first attempt at actually giving advice on this list
but here goes. I had the same problem with the strobe switch in my RV9
except the switch was not warm but hot. I removed the switch and soldered
the rivets. Replaced the switch and the heat was gone and has been for over
700 hours. I also removed the rest of the toggle switches and gave them the
same treatment. I check the switches periodically and they are always
ambient temperature. I=99m sure I read about soldering the rivets on
this
list years ago so this is not my idea.
Paul
On Monday, April 2, 2018, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> John:
>
> Yes, the switch may be the problem. Your switch S700-1-3 is a 15 Amp
> rating on AC. Which is NOT 15 Amps on DC. A good rule of thumb is the
> switch should be able to handle DOUBLE the DC amperage that the circuit
> draws. There are a couple of ways of determining the DC rating of an AC
> Switch. You can say take .707 x Rating or .637 x Rating. So: 15 Amps x
> .707 = 10.6 Amps // or 15 Amps x .637 = 9.5 Amps.
>
> They are average type switches, they are not hermetically sealed, the
> contacts are not silver plated. There could very easily be corrosion on
> the contacts and that raises the resistance of the circuit. The higher
> resistance can very easily cause HEAT at that contact point AND you are
> FEELING IT!
>
> Find a better quality switch. I like taking a DPST (Double Pole Single
> Throw) Switch and wiring BOTH Sides together so it functions as a SPST
> (Single Throw Single Throw) Switch. So, in your case you would have a
> total AC Rating of 30 Amps which would be able to handle either 19 Amps o
r
> 21 Amps DC. AND the physical properties of the switch would be much more
> robust that that S700-1-3 switch.
>
> BUT! DON'T STOP THERE! Other things in the circuit can be causing highe
r
> current draw.
> 1 - Sales brochures generally BOAST better ratings that that actually
> exist. The Strobe may very well be drawing higher than advertised.
> 2 - Check the connections of the switch. If they are SCREW Terminals use
> star lock washers. If they are FAST-ON terminals, how easy do they slide
> on/off? Squeeze them with needle nose pliers so they are Very Snug.
> 3 - How are other connections in the circuit?
> 4 - You mentioned FUSE, check the fuse holder for any signs of
> corrosion. Clean it with Scotch-Brite and Contact Cleaner.
>
> Resistance is resistance no matter where it is and that causes an increas
e
> in current draw.
>
> Barry
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
Yes . . .
You need a switch that with a restrained
handle such as the Honeywell 2TL1-5.
The Dash 5 is a 3 position that is stable
in two extremes and spring loaded out of the
third? Is this the action your seeking?
Shop around a bit . . . they come in all
$sizes$ . . .
[url=https://goo.gl/FQfTRF]https://goo.gl/FQfTRF[/url]
https://goo.gl/va48he
[u][/u]
[u][/u] Bob . . .
[/quote][/quote]
Thanks, Bob, that's exactly what I was looking for! :D
--------
RV-6
RV-7
Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479002#479002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: two different Z-33 diagrams |
At 02:34 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I have a printout of a Z-33 that shows how to
>wire pmags so that you can do maintenance on
>them, but I can't find this diagram any
>longer.=C2 The Z-33 I find is about Dual Power Path for Battery
Contactors.
>
>Is there an updated Z diagram that talks about
>the best way to wire the pmags so that=C2 you can also do maintenance on
them?
I dug through the Appendix Z figures archives and don't
find anything different than the presently published
Z33. I'm mystified as to the need for wiring p-mags in
any specific manner to do maintenance.
Can you enlighten me as to the rationale for such
a feature? I can call the guys at EmagAir for
support if it proves useful.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
At 05:11 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>
>Bob et al.
>
>I understand from reading lots of sources that
>small wires crimped into, for example, ring
>terminals, should have insulation support, like
>that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.
>
>If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex
>=9Ckrimptite=9D and I oversleeve with heat
>shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and
>extending over a half inch of the wire
>insulation, does that make up adequately for the
>lack of other insulation support?
Which Molex product are you citing? All the Molex
product I have here features both wire and insulation
grip features. I'm unaware of any product that doesn't
offer insulation grip.
Having said that, yes . . . heat shrink . . . particularly
double-wall adhesive heat shrink is suited for the addition
of insulation support on terminations that don't already
have it. For example, when bringing a wire onto an etched
circuit board I will either bring the insulation down tight
on the surface and spot the junction with E6000 (or similar)
or better yet, crimp a d-sub mail onto the wire, support the
insulation with DWA shrink the solder the pin to the board.
This last technique has been used on countless terminations
in my experience for 40 years. Assemblies so treated have
passed the most severe DO160 shake-n-bake tests with no problems.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
At 05:46 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>Alec:
>
>The insulated lug below a #10 AWG is a FAA requirement.
Is this a requirement or a recommended practice.
AC43-13, like DO160 are citations of acceptable
shop practices but they are not requirements.
Citing these documents can relive you of the
task to justify your alternative practice
but they do not prohibit alteratives.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: two different Z-33 diagrams |
Thanks Bob - I've sent the drawing I have offline - I didn't want it to get
out into the wild until you had a look as it might cause some confusion.
Regards, Mickey
Mickey Coggins
On 3 April 2018 at 14:40, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 02:34 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a printout of a Z-33 that shows how to wire pmags so that you can
> do maintenance on them, but I can't find this diagram any longer.=C3=82
The
> Z-33 I find is about Dual Power Path for Battery Contactors.
>
> Is there an updated Z diagram that talks about the best way to wire the
> pmags so that=C3=82 you can also do maintenance on them?
>
>
> I dug through the Appendix Z figures archives and don't
> find anything different than the presently published
> Z33. I'm mystified as to the need for wiring p-mags in
> any specific manner to do maintenance.
>
> Can you enlighten me as to the rationale for such
> a feature? I can call the guys at EmagAir for
> support if it proves useful.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
Care to show us how you arrive at that last statement, using Ohm's Law?
On 4/2/2018 8:39 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
John:
Yes, the switch may be the problem. Your switch S700-1-3 is a 15 Amp
rating on AC. Which is NOT 15 Amps on DC. A good rule of thumb is the
switch should be able to handle DOUBLE the DC amperage that the circuit
draws. There are a couple of ways of determining the DC rating of an AC
Switch. You can say take .707 x Rating or .637 x Rating. So: 15 Amps x
.707 = 10.6 Amps // or 15 Amps x .637 = 9.5 Amps.
They are average type switches, they are not hermetically sealed, the
contacts are not silver plated. There could very easily be corrosion on
the contacts and that raises the resistance of the circuit. The higher
resistance can very easily cause HEAT at that contact point AND you are
FEELING IT!
Find a better quality switch. I like taking a DPST (Double Pole Single
Throw) Switch and wiring BOTH Sides together so it functions as a SPST
(Single Throw Single Throw) Switch. So, in your case you would have a
total AC Rating of 30 Amps which would be able to handle either 19 Amps or
21 Amps DC. AND the physical properties of the switch would be much more
robust that that S700-1-3 switch.
BUT! DON'T STOP THERE! Other things in the circuit can be causing higher
current draw.
1 - Sales brochures generally BOAST better ratings that that actually
exist. The Strobe may very well be drawing higher than advertised.
2 - Check the connections of the switch. If they are SCREW Terminals use
star lock washers. If they are FAST-ON terminals, how easy do they slide
on/off? Squeeze them with needle nose pliers so they are Very Snug.
3 - How are other connections in the circuit?
4 - You mentioned FUSE, check the fuse holder for any signs of corrosion.
Clean it with Scotch-Brite and Contact Cleaner.
Resistance is resistance no matter where it is and that causes an increase
in current draw.
Barry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John <rv6a(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
Ken, Barry and Paul
Thanks for your responses and excellent advice.
Much appreciated.
John C
Rv6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
At 08:39 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>John:
>
>Yes, the switch may be the problem.=C2 Your
>switch S700-1-3=C2 is a 15 Amp rating on
>AC.=C2 Which is NOT 15 Amps on DC.=C2 A good rule
>of thumb is the switch should be able to handle
>DOUBLE the DC amperage that the circuit
>draws.=C2 There are a couple of ways of
>determining=C2 the DC rating of an AC
>Switch.=C2 You can say take .707 x Rating or .637
>x Rating.=C2 So: 15 Amps x .707 = 10.6 Amps // or 15 Amps x .637 = 9.5
Amps.
Not so.
An ampere is equal to flow of 1 Coulomb per second of electrons
past a point in the conductor. The electrons don't know if they're
AC, DC or some combination of the two. 1 amp flowing with a force
of 1 volt for 1 second represents 1 Joule of energy . . . and again,
this packet of energy knows not from which system it was generated.
This particular problem with the Carling switches has a history.
Graybeards on the List will recall a builder's repeated loss
of the switch that controlled his strobes. Something relaively
new in the Carling switches saga given that this same style of
switch had been in service on single engine Cessnas since the
middle 60's.
If you consider the physics for conducting Coulombs of electrons
to the strobes, we can count 10 metallic joints in the
switch's power path. NONE of those joints can have a resistance
of ZERO . . . it's ideally small but cannot be zero.
Four of those joints (1, 2, 9, 10_ are directly acted upon by the
installer. Two more (3, 8) can be influenced by the installer's
action when pressing the fast-on terminals into place. Those
same two joints can be adversely affected by operational
vibrations of wire bundles too tightly installed to the
back of switches (short or no service loops in wires).
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Toggle_Switch_with_Fa
All of said joints can be adversely influenced by
environmental effects and/or manufacturing variations.
Suffice it to say, any switch that is noticeably
warm after some time in the ON condition is probably
suffering a rise in resistance in on or more of the
10 joints illustrated.
A change in strobe system design architecture precipitated
the exchange we had about 10 years ago. You can go to
the AeroElectric List search feature on
http://www.matronics.com/forums/search.php
and search on Carling+failure+strobe+rivet
This was about the time when strobe systems were
migrating from the legacy Royer oscillator, high
voltage power supplies to the high efficiency,
high frequency constant-power supplies. Unlike
older strobes that drew LESS than normal running
current at low bus voltage, these systems were
designed to maintain strobe output at a wide range
of bus voltages, hence current draw went UP as
bus voltage goes down.
Operating strobes on the ground at idle and taxi
rpms placed extra stress on the switch.
Here'a a narrative that goes to a particular
kind of failure in the Carling swtiches:
https://goo.gl/oiZjeG
I've done teardowns on about a half dozen
switch failures with locus of the failure
was seldom repeated.
Here'a a general article on switch rating
as it relates to our use of them in airplanes.
https://goo.gl/CPtPYJ
Yes, the Carling products are inexpensive
but as Cessna and others have demonstrated for
decades, this does NOT make them unsuited to
our tasks. The laws of physics that govern
their failures are inviolate . . . meaning that
there are deducible reasons for every failure
or rash of failures.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
At 10:03 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>I believe this is my first attempt at actually
>giving advice on this list but here goes. I had
>the same problem with the strobe switch in my
>RV9 except the switch was not warm but hot. I
>removed the switch and soldered the rivets.
>Replaced the switch and the heat was gone and
>has been for over 700 hours. I also removed the
>rest of the toggle switches and gave them the
>same treatment. I check the switches
>periodically and they are always ambient
>temperature. I=99m sure I read about soldering
>the rivets on this list years ago so this is not my idea.=C2
>
>Paul
Good move . . . but not necessarily useful for
all switches. Barons and Bonanzas suffered a rash
of switch/breaker failures wherein a flexible braid
of fine wires intended to carry controlled
current around the pivot point to the front frame
of the switch.
This forced current to flow through the
spring. The 30A Prop Anti-Ice breaker
switch was observed to emit streams of
smoke past the toggle as the spring turned
into a heater.
Emacs!
This single case prompted a kerfuffle suggesting
that ALL the switches be replaced when in fact, the
prop deice was the only high current situation that
would smoke the spring.
Similarly, the Carling switches as-received are
just fine for the purposes to which we might use
them while keeping an eye on the switch controlling
high energy strobes. It would probably be good
practice not to run such strobes on the ground.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: two different Z-33 diagrams |
At 02:34 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I have a printout of a Z-33 that shows how to
>wire pmags so that you can do maintenance on
>them, but I can't find this diagram any
>longer.=C2 The Z-33 I find is about Dual Power Path for Battery
Contactors.
>
>Is there an updated Z diagram that talks about
>the best way to wire the pmags so that=C2 you can also do maintenance on
them?
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
Mickey,
Thanks for your persistence . . . a little more
digging found that the drawing you have has
a typo and was intended to become Z-34 and fill
a gap in the list of z-figures.
This drawing says "revision L" which is mystifying . . .
I can't imagine the conversation that drove its
evolution through that many steps. But then, the
rev-level label may have suffered the same editing
errors as the Z-figures number . . . it's dated 13
years ago so this gray haired ol' fart will beg
your indulgence.
I'm wondering about the 'maintenance' thingy . . .
I think the only time you would want to do such
a thing is for hand-propping the airplane. I'll
be willing to bet that I had some discussion
with EmagAir about this and they stood back from
it about the length of a football field.
Given the risk for putting one's hands on a 'hot'
engine, nobody in this litigious world would
recommend it. Having said that, it's entirely
up to the owner/operator to evaluate their own
situation and skill set for getting the engine
going.
Not sure I'm going to publish that figure in
the book . . . for the same reasons. Hiding
behind that 'maintenance' term would not offer
much cover in a lawsuit.
Got lots of hours in a J3 that wasn't going to
go anywhere unless you got up close and personal
with that whirrly thing on the front.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: two different Z-33 diagrams |
Thanks Bob. The maintenance mode is for setting the ignition timing - if
the device has power, but the p-lead is grounded, then it's in a mode where
blowing on the manifold pressure tube connected to the pmag will set the
timing. From what I see, the diagram achieves exactly what is needed, and
is very clear and simple. I don't see a case where it would decrease
safety, or have any impact on hand propping.
Here is an extract from the emagair manual that describes how to set the
timing. (http://www.emagair.com/downloads/)
Regards,
Mickey
1.
Set Ignition Timing:
Install the ignition(s) in the accessory case at any attitude that is
convenient. You won=99t need to move them again, so secure them fo
r
operation. Temporarily remove the MAP sensor tube connection where it
attaches to your aircraft system (not at the ignition itself).
1.
Rotate your prop to the engine =9CTC=9D (or 1-6 degrees afte
r) timing target
(see all notes for this section). By approaching this mark with the prop
moving in the direction of normal engine rotation you can minimize play
in
the gears.
Note 1: Be wary of old magneto timing habits. Magnetos are timed using
the 25 degree (or other) BTDC marks. Here, you will time at TDC or sligh
tly
after (never before).
Note 2: It does not matter whether the engine is on the compression or
exhaust stroke for a particular cylinder.
Note 3: On some engines, =9CTC=9D is stamped on the PROP SID
E of the ring
gear, which aligns with a reference alignment hole on the starter. On
others, the ring gear mark is on the ENGINE SIDE and lines up with the
top side engine case seam. Consult you engine manual on how to locate TD
C.
See also: Lycoming Service Instructions 1437 (
http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-instructions/pdfs/S
I1437.pdf).
Note 4: Startup Firing
-
=EF=82=B7 Units with firmware V40 (and after) have an automatic 4
degree starting
lag to make certain (start) firing occurs well after TDC.
-
=EF=82=B7 Prior to firmware V40, start firing occurs where the ignit
ion is
timed.
These units can implement a starting lag by CLOCKING the engine 2-3
degrees AFTER TDC. This will shift startup firing, and will also
shift the
operating range (in the less aggressive direction).
Background: Low-mass props can decelerate rapidly as the starter
motor pulls thru each compression stroke (TDC being the top of each
compression stroke). If the prop slows enough, it=99s effective
ly
become stationary when it reaches TDC. In these conditions,
combustion can send the prop backwards. Delaying startup firing
is a simple
hedge against this risk.
2.
Setup Mode is entered by turning 12 volt bus power ON, WHILE the p-lead
switch is OFF (grounded). If the LED is not lit up, you are not in Setup
Mode.
3.
Blow into the MAP sensor tube (see note below for duration and
pressure). After the first blow, the ignition will acknowledge by
switching the LED to from solid RED to blinking RED.
4.
Blow into the MAP sensor tube a second time, and the LED will blink
GREEN indicating the ignition timing has been set.
5.
Power cycle (12volt power OFF then ON) to enable operation and, provided
the prop has not moved, verify you still see a green LED. Reconnect the
MAP
sensor tube to its operating location.
Note 1: If you are setting timing on two ignitions and the MAP sensor tubes
are teed together, you can set timing on both ignitions in exactly the same
way in exactly the same amount of time.
Note 2: The =9Cblow=9D pressure required to activate Quick-Set
is set rather
high (minimum 0.5 psi) to minimize the chance that it could be triggered
inadvertently. This 0.5 psi is similar to the pressure needed to sound a
trumpet. As an additional precaution, we require pressurization for a
duration of one second before the instruction is accepted.
Mickey Coggins
On 3 April 2018 at 19:29, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 02:34 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a printout of a Z-33 that shows how to wire pmags so that you can
> do maintenance on them, but I can't find this diagram any longer.=C3=82
The
> Z-33 I find is about Dual Power Path for Battery Contactors.
>
> Is there an updated Z diagram that talks about the best way to wire the
> pmags so that=C3=82 you can also do maintenance on them?
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
>
> Mickey,
>
> Thanks for your persistence . . . a little more
> digging found that the drawing you have has
> a typo and was intended to become Z-34 and fill
> a gap in the list of z-figures.
>
> This drawing says "revision L" which is mystifying . . .
> I can't imagine the conversation that drove its
> evolution through that many steps. But then, the
> rev-level label may have suffered the same editing
> errors as the Z-figures number . . . it's dated 13
> years ago so this gray haired ol' fart will beg
> your indulgence.
>
> I'm wondering about the 'maintenance' thingy . . .
> I think the only time you would want to do such
> a thing is for hand-propping the airplane. I'll
> be willing to bet that I had some discussion
> with EmagAir about this and they stood back from
> it about the length of a football field.
>
> Given the risk for putting one's hands on a 'hot'
> engine, nobody in this litigious world would
> recommend it. Having said that, it's entirely
> up to the owner/operator to evaluate their own
> situation and skill set for getting the engine
> going.
>
> Not sure I'm going to publish that figure in
> the book . . . for the same reasons. Hiding
> behind that 'maintenance' term would not offer
> much cover in a lawsuit.
>
> Got lots of hours in a J3 that wasn't going to
> go anywhere unless you got up close and personal
> with that whirrly thing on the front.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
It=99s not something you=99ve specifically recommended: google f
or =9Ckrimptite=9D and you=99ll see some examples of to wh
at I was referring.
On Apr 3, 2018, at 08:46, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric
.com> wrote:
At 05:11 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>
> Bob et al.
>
> I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, f
or example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provid
ed by PIDG brand insulated crimps.
>
> If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex =9Ckrimptite=9D and
I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and ext
ending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately
for the lack of other insulation support?
Which Molex product are you citing? All the Molex
product I have here features both wire and insulation
grip features. I'm unaware of any product that doesn't
offer insulation grip.
Having said that, yes . . . heat shrink . . . particularly
double-wall adhesive heat shrink is suited for the addition
of insulation support on terminations that don't already
have it. For example, when bringing a wire onto an etched
circuit board I will either bring the insulation down tight
on the surface and spot the junction with E6000 (or similar)
or better yet, crimp a d-sub mail onto the wire, support the
insulation with DWA shrink the solder the pin to the board.
This last technique has been used on countless terminations
in my experience for 40 years. Assemblies so treated have
passed the most severe DO160 shake-n-bake tests with no problems.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: two different Z-33 diagrams |
At 03:44 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
>Thanks Bob.=C2 The maintenance mode is for
>setting the ignition timing - if the device has
>power, but the p-lead is grounded, then it's in
>a mode where blowing on the manifold pressure
>tube connected to the pmag will set the
>timing.=C2 From what I see, the diagram achieves
>exactly what is needed, and is very clear and
>simple.=C2 I don't see a case where it would
>decrease safety, or have any impact on hand propping.=C2 =C2
>
>Here is an extract from the emagair manual that
>describes how to set the
>timing.=C2
>(<http://www.emagair.com/downloads/>http://www.emagair.com/downloads/)
Ding Ding . . . I recall that now . . .
must be getting old.
Thanks for the refresher. I'll file
the EmagAir data next to the Z34
figure. Looks like it might be a good
addition to the 13th Edition after
all.
The title block speaks to hand-propping the engine.
Is this configuration useful to that
task as well?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: two different Z-33 diagrams |
Hi Bob, for hand propping, my understanding is that the device would need
at least a bit of power. There is some discussion on some forums about
just using a tiny 9v battery. I don't see anything in your diagram that
would help or hinder hand propping - there would still need to be some
external power source. The manual says this:
Emergency Prop Starting =93 Both the E-models and P-models need outsi
de
electrical power to start. You cannot prop-start the engine with either
type ignition if the battery is missing, or totally dead. However, a low
battery that barely =9Cbumps=9D the starter motor, or can only
=9Cclick=9D the
solenoid will likely have enough energy to power the ignition for prop
starting. After startup, P-model ignitions can then power themselves. *Caut
ion:
Do not attempt a prop start unless you are trained and are comfortable with
the procedure.*
I think your drawing would be a useful addition to the 13th and further
editions of the AEC.
Regards, Mickey
Mickey Coggins
On 4 April 2018 at 00:27, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 03:44 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob.=C3=82 The maintenance mode is for setting the ignition timin
g - if
> the device has power, but the p-lead is grounded, then it's in a mode whe
re
> blowing on the manifold pressure tube connected to the pmag will set the
> timing.=C3=82 From what I see, the diagram achieves exactly what is need
ed, and
> is very clear and simple.=C3=82 I don't see a case where it would decrea
se
> safety, or have any impact on hand propping.=C3=82 =C3=82
>
> Here is an extract from the emagair manual that describes how to set the
> timing.=C3=82 ( http://www.emagair.com/downloads/)
>
>
> Ding Ding . . . I recall that now . . .
> must be getting old.
>
> Thanks for the refresher. I'll file
> the EmagAir data next to the Z34
> figure. Looks like it might be a good
> addition to the 13th Edition after
> all.
>
> The title block speaks to hand-propping the engine.
> Is this configuration useful to that
> task as well?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: two different Z-33 diagrams |
At 12:06 AM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>Hi Bob, for hand propping, my understanding is
>that the device would need at least a bit of
>power.=C2 There is some discussion on some forums
>about just using a tiny 9v battery.=C2 I don't
>see anything in your diagram that would help or
>hinder hand propping - there would still need to
>be some external power source.=C2 The manual says this:
>
>Emergency Prop Starting ' Both the E-models and
>P-models need outside electrical power to start.
>You cannot prop-start the engine with either
>type ignition if the battery is missing, or
>totally dead. However, a low battery that barely
>=9Cbumps=9D the starter motor, or can only
>=9Cclick=9D the solenoid will likely have enough
>energy to power=C2 the ignition for prop starting.
>After startup, P-model ignitions can then power
>themselves. Caution: Do not attempt a prop start
>unless you are trained and are comfortable with the procedure.
>
>I think your drawing would be a useful addition
>to the 13th and further editions of the AEC.
I do too . . . just need to refresh my thought processes
for publication of the drawing and it's companion narrative.
The hand-propping and Revision L thing was mystifying
absent any recollection of the conversation at the time.
The drawing could be modified to include a helper-battery
feature . . . if a 9v battery does it, the current drain
cannot be very high. Hmmmm . . . maybe the drawing
just needs modification to take 'maintenance' power
directly from the battery bus through a small fuse.
Even a very depleted battery will produce energy
at milliampere loads. With this change, the
maintenance procedure could be conducted normally
. . . and the hand starting procedure attempted with
a high probability of success.
The indicator light could be an LED paired with a
zener such that no light is produced unless the
voltage is, say 8 volts or more. This would provide
the double purpose of annunciating "maintenance mode
active" and/or "hand propping success probable".
What do ye think?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <ChasB(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Warm Toggle Switch |
I went through several warm, hot, and/or shorted switches that operated
my strobes. Tried several brands of switches all with the same results.
Finally trouble shot the whole system and found a bad connector crimp on
the positive wire that connected at the strobe power pack. Repaired
same, and haven=99t had a switch problem since.
Charlie
RV-6A, N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: two different Z-33 diagrams |
Hi Bob, The drawing is absolutely perfect for my application as-is. Last
time I hand propped an aircraft was my boss's tri-pacer in 1978 or 79, so
that feature is not a high priority for me. Might be worth an email to
Brad to get his benediction, but what you drew in the z-33 seems to exactly
match the recommendations in the installation guide, and in a way that is
very clear. Regards, Mickey
Mickey Coggins
On 4 April 2018 at 15:18, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 12:06 AM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>
> Hi Bob, for hand propping, my understanding is that the device would need
> at least a bit of power.=C3=82 There is some discussion on some forums a
bout
> just using a tiny 9v battery.=C3=82 I don't see anything in your diagram
that
> would help or hinder hand propping - there would still need to be some
> external power source.=C3=82 The manual says this:
>
> Emergency Prop Starting =93 Both the E-models and P-models need out
side
> electrical power to start. You cannot prop-start the engine with either
> type ignition if the battery is missing, or totally dead. However, a low
> battery that barely =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93bumps=C3=A2=82=AC the starter
motor, or can only =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93click=C3=A2=82=AC
> the solenoid will likely have enough energy to power=C3=82 the ignition f
or prop
> starting. After startup, P-model ignitions can then power themselves.
> *Caution: Do not attempt a prop start unless you are trained and are
> comfortable with the procedure. *
> I think your drawing would be a useful addition to the 13th and further
> editions of the AEC.
>
>
> I do too . . . just need to refresh my thought processes
> for publication of the drawing and it's companion narrative.
> The hand-propping and Revision L thing was mystifying
> absent any recollection of the conversation at the time.
>
> The drawing could be modified to include a helper-battery
> feature . . . if a 9v battery does it, the current drain
> cannot be very high. Hmmmm . . . maybe the drawing
> just needs modification to take 'maintenance' power
> directly from the battery bus through a small fuse.
> Even a very depleted battery will produce energy
> at milliampere loads. With this change, the
> maintenance procedure could be conducted normally
> . . . and the hand starting procedure attempted with
> a high probability of success.
>
> The indicator light could be an LED paired with a
> zener such that no light is produced unless the
> voltage is, say 8 volts or more. This would provide
> the double purpose of annunciating "maintenance mode
> active" and/or "hand propping success probable".
>
> What do ye think?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: insulation support for crimps |
At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
>It=99s not something you=99ve specifically
>recommended: google for =9Ckrimptite=9D and
>you=99ll see some examples of to what I was referring.
>
Okay. Found this .pdf that speaks to the
spectrum of Waldom termnials
https://goo.gl/XKMA71
The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
rolled, non-welded wire grips.
Next step up through the product line adds
insulation grips to the non-welded
terminals.
Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
specifically designed for solid wire and wire
grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.
Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
offering to higher performance vehicular
applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928
The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.
There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
are not expected to perform under vibration.
One does not save much money with the use of terminals
outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.
Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
applications.
Emacs!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John <rv6a(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
Thanks Charlie.
John C
RV6A
> On Apr 4, 2018, at 10:21 AM, Charles Brame wrote:
>
> I went through several warm, hot, and/or shorted switches that operated my strobes.
Tried several brands of switches all with the same results. Finally trouble
shot the whole system and found a bad connector crimp on the positive wire
that connected at the strobe power pack. Repaired same, and havent had a switch
problem since.
>
> Charlie
> RV-6A, N11CB
> San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
At 09:21 AM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>I went through several warm, hot, and/or shorted
>switches that operated my strobes. Tried several
>brands of switches all with the same results.
>Finally trouble shot the whole system and found
>a bad connector crimp on the positive wire that
>connected at the strobe power pack. Repaired
>same, and haven=99t had a switch problem since.
What were your observations for condition of
the materials at the failure . . . and do
you recall whether the failure was related
to materials, installation technique or perhaps
both?
You mentioned 'shorted' switch . . . were you the
builder who was experiencing fuse popping when the
strobes were turned OFF?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The following was posted today on Vansairforce. Are the statements below true?
> "Starters that use a permanent magnet instead of a wound field most certainly
can and will cause voltage surges that will take out avionics. The EXP2 will
not filter out surges. Strongly recommend you rewire the EXP2 to have the Avionics
shut down on cranking or better yet don't turn the avionics on until engine
is started and running. Voltage spikes are of a quick transient nature and
can exceed several hundred volts. They can be fast enough that the clamping diode
will not completely shunt the spike."
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479039#479039
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter SURGES |
I dont know about the first bit but Im very dubious about They can be fast enough
that the clamping diode will not completely shunt the spike.
I dont think it takes more than a few nanoseconds for a junction diode to go into
conduction; they rectify very high frequency signals, after all. And the junction
looks like a small capacitance which at a high enough frequency will short
a signal even without conducting.
On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:55, user9253 wrote:
The following was posted today on Vansairforce. Are the statements below true?
> "Starters that use a permanent magnet instead of a wound field most certainly
can and will cause voltage surges that will take out avionics. The EXP2 will
not filter out surges. Strongly recommend you rewire the EXP2 to have the Avionics
shut down on cranking or better yet don't turn the avionics on until engine
is started and running. Voltage spikes are of a quick transient nature and
can exceed several hundred volts. They can be fast enough that the clamping diode
will not completely shunt the spike."
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479039#479039
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter SURGES |
If the bendix gear is sticky, such that the engine is able to drive the sta
rter, I could imagine that it could push a fairly high (albeit short) numbe
r of joules back up the wire. =C2-Right?
On Wednesday, April 4, 2018 3:03 PM, Alec Myers wr
ote:
I don=99t know about the first bit but I=99m very dubious about
=9CThey can be fast enough that the clamping diode will not complete
ly shunt the spike=9D.
I don=99t think it takes more than a few nanoseconds for a junction d
iode to go into conduction; they rectify very high frequency signals, after
all. And the junction looks like a small capacitance which at a high enoug
h frequency will =9Cshort=9D a signal even without conducting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter SURGES |
At 10:55 AM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>
>The following was posted today on Vansairforce. Are the statements
>below true?
>
> > "Starters that use a permanent magnet instead of a wound field
> most certainly can and will cause voltage surges that will take out
> avionics. The EXP2 will not filter out surges. Strongly recommend
> you rewire the EXP2 to have the Avionics shut down on cranking or
> better yet don't turn the avionics on until engine is started and
> running. Voltage spikes are of a quick transient nature and can
> exceed several hundred volts. They can be fast enough that the
> clamping diode will not completely shunt the spike."
Some ol' hangar tales just never die. 99.9% of the
legacy 'spikes' narratives are simply unfounded in
physics and not demonstrated in practice.
I spent 45+ years chasing gremlins, goblins and
poltergeists in aircraft DC power systems. Not
once was the root event of a problem attributable to
an UNEXPECTED transient condition on the bus.
UNEXPECTED is the operative word here . . .
DO160/M-Std-704 are teamed up to define what
hazards are EXPECTED and what firewalls are
recommended for meeting those expectations.
We've been successfully building and operating
all manner of electronic and electrical accessory
under these guidelines for about 80 years.
The narrative cited above is pretty strange . . .
"fast enough that the clamping diode will not
completely shunt the spike". Really? Such
assertions should be able to cite supporting
documentation where a test setup was fabricated,
tests conducted, measurements taken and deductions
made.
Graybeards on the List may recall numerous discussions
wherein I went to the bench, did the setup, recorded
the results and published the deductions.
The 'cranking spike' thingy doesn't exist. What
ever bus voltage perturbations exist are NORMAL,
EXPECTED and well addressed by rudimentary and
now cookie-cutter design philosophies nearly
a century old.
I'd be pleased to send $100 to any individual
who can document any conditions to the contrary
and publish them here on the List.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
Bob:
You are ALMOST right.
The Rating of a Switch has to do NOT ONLY Voltage and Amperage, but with AC
or DC.
There are different ratings of Amperage for the same switch and physical
size when you talk AC & DC.
An amp is an amp, but, when you deal with the physical size of the switch -
HOW MANY AMPS a switch can handle changes with the type of voltage... All
the way from DC up to RF.
-------------------------------
I think Charlie is directing his email to me?
Charlie England ceengland7(at)gmail.com via
matronics.com
Apr 3 (1 day ago)
Reply
to aeroelectric-l.
Care to show us how you arrive at that last statement, using Ohm's Law?
Barry- It is NOT Ohms Law. There is more to electronics than just Ohms law
.
0.637 is know as Average.
0.707 is know as RMS (Root Mean Squared)
They are points of power on a Sine Wave.
Example: A 110 VAC outlet has MORE that 110 VAC coming out of it.
It is more like 180.07 Volts PEAK.
How much WORK the Peak Voltage can do is AVERAGED to be: Peak x 0.637
Average.
Or 180.07 x 0.637 = 110 VAC
Now to really confuse ya...
The equivalent of 180.07 VAC in DC would be: Peak x 0.707 = RMS
Or 180.07 x 0.707 = 127.30 VAC
That is why you will see AC ratings ranging from 110 VAC to 130 VAC.
I know, clear as mud.
It is under AC Theory.
Barry
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 08:39 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>
> John:
>
> Yes, the switch may be the problem.=C3=82 Your sw
>
> itch S700-1-3=C3=82 is a 15 Amp rating on AC.=C3=82 Which is NOT 15 Amps
on DC.=C3=82 A
> good rule of thumb is the switch should be able to handle DOUBLE the DC
> amperage that the circuit draws.=C3=82 There are a couple of ways of
> determining=C3=82 the DC rating of an AC Switch.=C3=82 You can say take
.707 x
> Rating or .637 x Rating.=C3=82 So: 15 Amps x .707 = 10.6 Amps // or 15
Amps x
> .637 = 9.5 Amps.
> Not so.
>
> An ampere is equal to flow of 1 Coulomb per second of electrons
> past a point in the conductor. The electrons don't know if they're
> AC, DC or some combination of the two. 1 amp flowing with a force
> of 1 volt for 1 second represents 1 Joule of energy . . . and again,
> this packet of energy knows not from which system it was generated.
>
> This particular problem with the Carling switches has a history.
> Graybeards on the List will recall a builder's repeated loss
> of the switch that controlled his strobes. Something relaively
> new in the Carling switches saga given that this same style of
> switch had been in service on single engine Cessnas since the
> middle 60's.
>
> If you consider the physics for conducting Coulombs of electrons
> to the strobes, we can count 10 metallic joints in the
> switch's power path. NONE of those joints can have a resistance
> of ZERO . . . it's ideally small but cannot be zero.
>
> Four of those joints (1, 2, 9, 10_ are directly acted upon by the
> installer. Two more (3, 8) can be influenced by the installer's
> action when pressing the fast-on terminals into place. Those
> same two joints can be adversely affected by operational
> vibrations of wire bundles too tightly installed to the
> back of switches (short or no service loops in wires).
>
>
> [image: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Toggle_Switch_with_Fa]
>
> All of said joints can be adversely influenced by
> environmental effects and/or manufacturing variations.
>
> Suffice it to say, any switch that is noticeably
> warm after some time in the ON condition is probably
> suffering a rise in resistance in on or more of the
> 10 joints illustrated.
>
> A change in strobe system design architecture precipitated
> the exchange we had about 10 years ago. You can go to
> the AeroElectric List search feature on
>
> http://www.matronics.com/forums/search.php
>
> and search on Carling+failure+strobe+rivet
>
> This was about the time when strobe systems were
> migrating from the legacy Royer oscillator, high
> voltage power supplies to the high efficiency,
> high frequency constant-power supplies. Unlike
> older strobes that drew LESS than normal running
> current at low bus voltage, these systems were
> designed to maintain strobe output at a wide range
> of bus voltages, hence current draw went UP as
> bus voltage goes down.
>
> Operating strobes on the ground at idle and taxi
> rpms placed extra stress on the switch.
>
> Here'a a narrative that goes to a particular
> kind of failure in the Carling swtiches:
>
> https://goo.gl/oiZjeG
>
> I've done teardowns on about a half dozen
> switch failures with locus of the failure
> was seldom repeated.
>
> Here'a a general article on switch rating
> as it relates to our use of them in airplanes.
>
> https://goo.gl/CPtPYJ
>
> Yes, the Carling products are inexpensive
> but as Cessna and others have demonstrated for
> decades, this does NOT make them unsuited to
> our tasks. The laws of physics that govern
> their failures are inviolate . . . meaning that
> there are deducible reasons for every failure
> or rash of failures.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter SURGES |
At 03:46 PM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>If the bendix gear is sticky, such that the engine is able to drive
>the starter, I could imagine that it could push a fairly high
>(albeit short) number of joules back up the wire. Right?
the 'Bendix' drive is gone. All starters
use direct engagement solenoids.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Starter_mot
A return spring retracts the pinion
gear upon removal of power from the
motor. In fact, electrical power to
the motor is interrupted during the initial
retraction so there is no torque being
transmitted from motor to ring gear.
At the same time, an overrun clutch
https://tinyurl.com/y7prvn7b
prevents the accelerating engine
from back-driving the starter. If
this clutch were not present, first
motion of the engine during pinion gear
retraction would break things.
This feature was built into the legacy
'bendix' drive. Starter motor acceleration
working against pinion gear mass would
drive it outward on the shaft by means
of a spiral groove on the shaft . . .
engine acceleration tending to over-run
the starter would drive the pinion back
from the ring gear with the same groove.
Emacs!
There have been some hangar-tales of starter
pinions 'sticking' and back driving starters.
There have been cases of contactor sticking
keeping power on the starter thus maintaining
pinion engagement. But no back driving could
have occurred due to action of the clutch.
Had the motor been driven backwards at the
pinion to ring gear ratio, it would probably
have slung wires out of the armature and/or
stripped gear teeth.
The same gear reduction of pinion-to-ring
allows starter armature to run at several
thousand rpm to generated 200 rpm at the
crankshaft. Okay, after engine start and
run at 1000 rpm, a back-driving situation would
spin the starter armature 10000 rpm plus?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
At 04:35 PM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>Bob:
>
>You are ALMOST right.
>
>The Rating of a Switch has to do NOT ONLY
>Voltage and Amperage, but with AC or DC.
>There are different ratings of Amperage for the
>same switch and physical size when you talk AC & DC.
>An amp is an amp, but, when you deal with the
>physical size of the switch - HOW MANY AMPS a
>switch can handle changes with the type of
>voltage...=C2 All the way from DC up to RF.
Switch WARMING is a function of a switch's
CARRY current. I.e. I(squared)R losses
across the metallic joints I illustrated in
the earlier posting. This energy dissipation
is independent of the nature of system
voltage.
The device's ability to MAKE and BREAK a
circuit is another matter . . . and indeed
is influenced by the nature of system
voltage. This is explained in an article
I published at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Switch_Ratings.pdf
A study of the published ratings from Honeywell
literature supports the notion that the 125VAC
ratings of commercial, off the shelf switches
are on a par with the switch's 14VDC ratings.
Hence my advice to builders over the years suggests
that a hardware store switch rated for 10A at
125VAC was suited to operation in an airplane
at 14VDC.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
Yes, I was, but you didn't include in your reply, the line I was asking
about. These are DC circuits. Explain how higher resistance causes higher
current in a DC circuit. Note that I'm not asking about a switching power
supply drawing more current as its supply voltage decreases; I'm asking you
to explain how an increase in a DC circuit's resistance causes a higher
current to flow in the circuit.
Charlie
On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 4:35 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> I think Charlie is directing his email to me?
>
> Charlie England ceengland7(at)gmail.com via
> matronics.com
> Apr 3 (1 day ago)
> Reply
> to aeroelectric-l.
> Care to show us how you arrive at that last statement, using Ohm's Law?
>
> Barry- It is NOT Ohms Law. There is more to electronics than just Ohms
> law.
> 0.637 is know as Average.
> 0.707 is know as RMS (Root Mean Squared)
> They are points of power on a Sine Wave.
> Example: A 110 VAC outlet has MORE that 110 VAC coming out of it.
> It is more like 180.07 Volts PEAK.
> How much WORK the Peak Voltage can do is AVERAGED to be: Peak x 0.637
> Average.
> Or 180.07 x 0.637 = 110 VAC
> Now to really confuse ya...
> The equivalent of 180.07 VAC in DC would be: Peak x 0.707 = RMS
> Or 180.07 x 0.707 = 127.30 VAC
> That is why you will see AC ratings ranging from 110 VAC to 130 VAC.
> I know, clear as mud.
>
> It is under AC Theory.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> At 08:39 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>>
>> John:
>>
>> Yes, the switch may be the problem.=C3=82 Your sw
>>
>> itch S700-1-3=C3=82 is a 15 Amp rating on AC.=C3=82 Which is NOT 15 Amp
s on DC.=C3=82
>> A good rule of thumb is the switch should be able to handle DOUBLE the D
C
>> amperage that the circuit draws.=C3=82 There are a couple of ways of
>> determining=C3=82 the DC rating of an AC Switch.=C3=82 You can say take
.707 x
>> Rating or .637 x Rating.=C3=82 So: 15 Amps x .707 = 10.6 Amps // or 1
5 Amps x
>> .637 = 9.5 Amps.
>> Not so.
>>
>> An ampere is equal to flow of 1 Coulomb per second of electrons
>> past a point in the conductor. The electrons don't know if they're
>> AC, DC or some combination of the two. 1 amp flowing with a force
>> of 1 volt for 1 second represents 1 Joule of energy . . . and again,
>> this packet of energy knows not from which system it was generated.
>>
>> This particular problem with the Carling switches has a history.
>> Graybeards on the List will recall a builder's repeated loss
>> of the switch that controlled his strobes. Something relaively
>> new in the Carling switches saga given that this same style of
>> switch had been in service on single engine Cessnas since the
>> middle 60's.
>>
>> If you consider the physics for conducting Coulombs of electrons
>> to the strobes, we can count 10 metallic joints in the
>> switch's power path. NONE of those joints can have a resistance
>> of ZERO . . . it's ideally small but cannot be zero.
>>
>> Four of those joints (1, 2, 9, 10_ are directly acted upon by the
>> installer. Two more (3, 8) can be influenced by the installer's
>> action when pressing the fast-on terminals into place. Those
>> same two joints can be adversely affected by operational
>> vibrations of wire bundles too tightly installed to the
>> back of switches (short or no service loops in wires).
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Toggle_Switch_with_Fa]
>>
>>
>> All of said joints can be adversely influenced by
>> environmental effects and/or manufacturing variations.
>>
>> Suffice it to say, any switch that is noticeably
>> warm after some time in the ON condition is probably
>> suffering a rise in resistance in on or more of the
>> 10 joints illustrated.
>>
>> A change in strobe system design architecture precipitated
>> the exchange we had about 10 years ago. You can go to
>> the AeroElectric List search feature on
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/forums/search.php
>>
>> and search on Carling+failure+strobe+rivet
>>
>> This was about the time when strobe systems were
>> migrating from the legacy Royer oscillator, high
>> voltage power supplies to the high efficiency,
>> high frequency constant-power supplies. Unlike
>> older strobes that drew LESS than normal running
>> current at low bus voltage, these systems were
>> designed to maintain strobe output at a wide range
>> of bus voltages, hence current draw went UP as
>> bus voltage goes down.
>>
>> Operating strobes on the ground at idle and taxi
>> rpms placed extra stress on the switch.
>>
>> Here'a a narrative that goes to a particular
>> kind of failure in the Carling swtiches:
>>
>> https://goo.gl/oiZjeG
>>
>> I've done teardowns on about a half dozen
>> switch failures with locus of the failure
>> was seldom repeated.
>>
>> Here'a a general article on switch rating
>> as it relates to our use of them in airplanes.
>>
>> https://goo.gl/CPtPYJ
>>
>> Yes, the Carling products are inexpensive
>> but as Cessna and others have demonstrated for
>> decades, this does NOT make them unsuited to
>> our tasks. The laws of physics that govern
>> their failures are inviolate . . . meaning that
>> there are deducible reasons for every failure
>> or rash of failures.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
It=99s understandably easy to (incorrectly) jump from TRUE (higher res
istance creates more heat) via another TRUE (more current means more heat) t
o a FALSE:
higher resistance means more current. Of course higher resistance means less
current.
Actually higher resistance means less heat overall, but increasing the resis
tance of one part of a circuit (like a switch) can increase the heat in that
spot, causing the trouble.
On Apr 4, 2018, at 18:20, Charlie England wrote:
Yes, I was, but you didn't include in your reply, the line I was asking abou
t. These are DC circuits. Explain how higher resistance causes higher curren
t in a DC circuit. Note that I'm not asking about a switching power supply d
rawing more current as its supply voltage decreases; I'm asking you to expla
in how an increase in a DC circuit's resistance causes a higher current to f
low in the circuit.
Charlie
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 4:35 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
>
> I think Charlie is directing his email to me?
>
> Charlie England ceengland7(at)gmail.com via matronics.com
> Apr 3 (1 day ago)
> Reply
> to aeroelectric-l.
> Care to show us how you arrive at that last statement, using Ohm's Law?
>
> Barry- It is NOT Ohms Law. There is more to electronics than just Ohms la
w.
> 0.637 is know as Average.
> 0.707 is know as RMS (Root Mean Squared)
> They are points of power on a Sine Wave.
> Example: A 110 VAC outlet has MORE that 110 VAC coming out of it.
> It is more like 180.07 Volts PEAK.
> How much WORK the Peak Voltage can do is AVERAGED to be: Peak x 0.637 = A
verage.
> Or 180.07 x 0.637 = 110 VAC
> Now to really confuse ya...
> The equivalent of 180.07 VAC in DC would be: Peak x 0.707 = RMS
> Or 180.07 x 0.707 = 127.30 VAC
> That is why you will see AC ratings ranging from 110 VAC to 130 VAC.
> I know, clear as mud.
>
> It is under AC Theory.
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@ae
roelectric.com> wrote:
>> At 08:39 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
>>> John:
>>>
>>> Yes, the switch may be the problem.=C3=82 Your sw
>> itch S700-1-3=C3=82 is a 15 Amp rating on AC.=C3=82 Which is NOT 15 Amps
on DC.=C3=82 A good rule of thumb is the switch should be able to handle D
OUBLE the DC amperage that the circuit draws.=C3=82 There are a couple of w
ays of determining=C3=82 the DC rating of an AC Switch.=C3=82 You can say t
ake .707 x Rating or .637 x Rating.=C3=82 So: 15 Amps x .707 = 10.6 Amps /
/ or 15 Amps x .637 = 9.5 Amps.
>> Not so.
>>
>> An ampere is equal to flow of 1 Coulomb per second of electrons
>> past a point in the conductor. The electrons don't know if they're
>> AC, DC or some combination of the two. 1 amp flowing with a force
>> of 1 volt for 1 second represents 1 Joule of energy . . . and again,
>> this packet of energy knows not from which system it was generated.
>>
>> This particular problem with the Carling switches has a history.
>> Graybeards on the List will recall a builder's repeated loss
>> of the switch that controlled his strobes. Something relaively
>> new in the Carling switches saga given that this same style of
>> switch had been in service on single engine Cessnas since the
>> middle 60's.
>>
>> If you consider the physics for conducting Coulombs of electrons
>> to the strobes, we can count 10 metallic joints in the
>> switch's power path. NONE of those joints can have a resistance
>> of ZERO . . . it's ideally small but cannot be zero.
>>
>> Four of those joints (1, 2, 9, 10_ are directly acted upon by the
>> installer. Two more (3, 8) can be influenced by the installer's
>> action when pressing the fast-on terminals into place. Those
>> same two joints can be adversely affected by operational
>> vibrations of wire bundles too tightly installed to the
>> back of switches (short or no service loops in wires).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All of said joints can be adversely influenced by
>> environmental effects and/or manufacturing variations.
>>
>> Suffice it to say, any switch that is noticeably
>> warm after some time in the ON condition is probably
>> suffering a rise in resistance in on or more of the
>> 10 joints illustrated.
>>
>> A change in strobe system design architecture precipitated
>> the exchange we had about 10 years ago. You can go to
>> the AeroElectric List search feature on
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/forums/search.php
>>
>> and search on Carling+failure+strobe+rivet
>>
>> This was about the time when strobe systems were
>> migrating from the legacy Royer oscillator, high
>> voltage power supplies to the high efficiency,
>> high frequency constant-power supplies. Unlike
>> older strobes that drew LESS than normal running
>> current at low bus voltage, these systems were
>> designed to maintain strobe output at a wide range
>> of bus voltages, hence current draw went UP as
>> bus voltage goes down.
>>
>> Operating strobes on the ground at idle and taxi
>> rpms placed extra stress on the switch.
>>
>> Here'a a narrative that goes to a particular
>> kind of failure in the Carling swtiches:
>>
>> https://goo.gl/oiZjeG
>>
>> I've done teardowns on about a half dozen
>> switch failures with locus of the failure
>> was seldom repeated.
>>
>> Here'a a general article on switch rating
>> as it relates to our use of them in airplanes.
>>
>> https://goo.gl/CPtPYJ
>>
>> Yes, the Carling products are inexpensive
>> but as Cessna and others have demonstrated for
>> decades, this does NOT make them unsuited to
>> our tasks. The laws of physics that govern
>> their failures are inviolate . . . meaning that
>> there are deducible reasons for every failure
>> or rash of failures.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
Bob:
" A study of the published ratings from Honeywell
literature supports the notion that the 125VAC
ratings of commercial, off the shelf switches
are on a par with the switch's 14VDC ratings.
Hence my advice to builders over the years suggests
that a hardware store switch rated for 10A at
125VAC was suited to operation in an airplane
at 14VDC.
Bob . . ."
What do you consider "on a par with..." One can go to just about any
electronics catalog and look up a switch with dual ratings and you will
ALWAYS find the DC Amperage is lower than the AC Amperage of that same
switch.
The point(s) I was making were:
1 - There are many reasons why John's switch can be getting warm.
2 - A poorly chosen switch can be one of those reasons. Not that John chose
the switch, it could have been recommended by the instructions. After all
it lasted for 9+ years.
3 - Maybe it was just its time to DIE!
4 - How the plane is stored? Hanger? Outside? High Humidity?
5 - Poor connections ie: Fast-On connectors, No Lock Washer,
Undersized Wire, etc.
6 - Vibration! ALL planes suffer from Vibration. My rule of thumb is:
For every hour you fly, there is 4 hours of maintenance.
And one of my Favorites:
7 - Chinese JUNK!
MANY components are NOT what the SAY they are!
Just because it is stamped 10 Amps does not mean it is 10 Amps. And when
working close to the edge of specifications one is taking a chance. On a
switch that is rated at 9 / 10 Amps and the circuit draws 7.5 Amps. That
is not good design practice.
One of my tricks is to use a DPST switch and tie both sides to the same
circuit. The rating for a DP switch is for each side. So, by tying them
together you DOUBLE the rating, As well as doubling the physical
properties of the switch.
Funny thing in engineering: When you design for the COMPANY you
design with the pocketbook in mind. When you design for yourself and
especially for your OWN plane... To HELL with the pocketbook! I don't
ever want to repair that Dang Circuit Again! It was HELL to get at!!!
So, yes, we will put in a $4.00 switch instead of that $2.35 Chinese
Switch. The COMPANY won't... But, I will!!!
Barry
On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 04:35 PM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>
> Bob:
>
> You are ALMOST right.
>
> The Rating of a Switch has to do NOT ONLY Voltage and Amperage, but with
> AC or DC.
> There are different ratings of Amperage for the same switch and physical
> size when you talk AC & DC.
> An amp is an amp, but, when you deal with the physical size of the switch
> - HOW MANY AMPS a switch can handle changes with the type of voltage...
=C3=82
> All the way from DC up to RF.
>
>
> Switch WARMING is a function of a switch's
> CARRY current. I.e. I(squared)R losses
> across the metallic joints I illustrated in
> the earlier posting. This energy dissipation
> is independent of the nature of system
> voltage.
>
> The device's ability to MAKE and BREAK a
> circuit is another matter . . . and indeed
> is influenced by the nature of system
> voltage. This is explained in an article
> I published at:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Switch_Ratings.pdf
>
> A study of the published ratings from Honeywell
> literature supports the notion that the 125VAC
> ratings of commercial, off the shelf switches
> are on a par with the switch's 14VDC ratings.
> Hence my advice to builders over the years suggests
> that a hardware store switch rated for 10A at
> 125VAC was suited to operation in an airplane
> at 14VDC.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warm Toggle Switch |
>
>
>What do you consider "on a par with..." One can
>go to just about any electronics catalog and
>look up a switch with dual ratings and you will
>ALWAYS find the DC Amperage is lower than the AC Amperage of that same
switch.
What statement in the article I cited was questionable?
Did you read the article?
I cited a ratings chart purloined directly from the Honeywell/Microswich
catalog which I repeat here:
Emacs!
I observe that for a switch with any particular
"electrical code rating" the 115 VAC ratings are
not seriously different from 28VDC ratings. I further
deduced that 14VDC ratings should be equal to or better
than 28VDC ratings.
Consider a switch of code 3:
115 vac resistive 15A
28 vdc resistive 20A
Why would such a switch not be comfortably incorporated into
a 14VDC system working a 20A load?
Take any OTHER rating and cite the situation where the
builder's choice of switches is at-risk for using the
device?
Further, assume that a switch is incorporated into
a 14VDC system at say 3x the switch's 'ratings'.
What are the likely effects for such oversight?
How would a 3x 'overload' affect service life? Given
that most lightplanes fly 50 hours per year, assiming
two switch operations per flight hour, what might we
expect for service longevity of this 'severely' overloaded
switch?
Forgive me, that's a loaded question. Referring to the
the chart above, the 'severely overloaded' switch would
would have to be applied in a circuit that controls at
least 15 x 3 or 45 amps. No such system exists in light
aircraft where such currents flow in crew operated switches.
The point to be considered here is that the 'warm switch'
in question has an easily deduced root cause based on
simple physics and the extensive experience base for
members of this List.
>The point(s) I was making were:=C2 =C2
>
>1 - There are many reasons=C2 why John's switch can be getting warm.
>
>2 - A poorly chosen switch can be one of those
>reasons. Not that John chose the switch, it
>could have been recommended=C2 by the
>instructions.=C2 After all it lasted for 9+ years.
>
>3 - Maybe it was just its time to DIE!
>
>4 - How the plane is stored?=C2 Hanger?=C2 Outside?=C2 High Humidity?
>
>5 - Poor connections ie: Fast-On connectors, No
>Lock Washer, Undersized=C2 Wire, etc.
>
>6 - Vibration!=C2 ALL planes suffer from
>Vibration.=C2 My rule of thumb is:=C2 For every
>hour you fly, there is 4 hours of maintenance.
>
>And one of my Favorites:
>
>7 - Chinese=C2 JUNK!
Whoa!!! You've thrown the kitchen sink into the discussion.
One of the goals for this List is to combine a knowledge of
history with a good grasp on the simple ideas in physics
viewed through a narrow-spectrum lens of demonstrable cause/effect.
In what way has anything I've offered in this thread conflicted
with physics and/or 50 years experience/lessons-learned?
You have asserted that some instances of INCREASED resistance
can manifest as an INCREASED current. I'm mystified by this
assertion . . . yet if correct . . . is easily demonstrated.
Can you shoot a video on you mobile phone for any assortment
of components powered from a source of your choice where
INCREASING a resistance INCREASES current.
If we've mis-interpreted your words, then you have my
profound apologies . . . we only seek to understand.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter SURGES |
Bob, all, When I graduated high school back in the dark ages I had a 1959
Alfa Romeo Giullietta Spider that had a nightmare starter system. First,
the electrical system was positive ground. That alone made things
interesting but the starter, or rather the starter switch was the flash
point of failure. Why? Because it had no spring return. You had to
physically turn the starter motor off or the starter would stay connected
with the ring gear and the engine would drive the starter. I was warned by
the guy who sold me the car and I only left it engaged once for a few
seconds. The grinding sound was kind of a give away and I got away with it.
When I sold the car to my best friend I told him what I'd been told,
"Never, ever let anyone else drive this car". About four weeks after Dave
bought it, he let his step brother drive the car. He left the starter
engaged for the entire 10 miles he drove it. The next day, the battery was
dead. When checked, it had internal shorts and was junk. Dave bought a new
Die Hard, the new thing in battery advertising, if not battery technology.
It lasted a couple of weeks and Dave took it back to Sears. The battery was
tested and failed. He got a new one. It too failed in short order. This
went on for FOUR batteries before the manager at the Arden Way Sears gave
my friend a full refund and refused to sell him any more batteries.
Somewhere in the mess the starter failed and was replaced, the generator
failed, the headlights would burn out on a regular basis and my friend
almost became my ex-friend. He was a poor college student trying to fix the
car with suggestions from his dad and some mechanics he knew. Finally his
folks loaned him the money to take it to a garage that worked on Alfas and
they determined that the voltage regulator was fried, too. This had gone on
for almost six months before he finally had the car back in a dependable
condition.
So my take is, yeah, drive the starter and turn it into a generator and
things are going to screw up in a major way.
Rick Girard
PS Probably the worst part came when Dave was finally able to enjoy the car
again he took it for a drive on a beautiful day. A truck in front of him
kicked up a stone that went right through the radiator. He pulled into a
service station and the engine rattled to a stop. The kid at the pump
popped open the hood and started filling the radiator before Dave could
stop him. Put a crack all the way across the roof of the number three
combustion chamber.
On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 03:46 PM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>
> If the bendix gear is sticky, such that the engine is able to drive the
> starter, I could imagine that it could push a fairly high (albeit short)
> number of joules back up the wire. Right?
>
>
> the 'Bendix' drive is gone. All starters
> use direct engagement solenoids.
>
> [image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Starter_mot]
>
> A return spring retracts the pinion
> gear upon removal of power from the
> motor. In fact, electrical power to
> the motor is interrupted during the initial
> retraction so there is no torque being
> transmitted from motor to ring gear.
> At the same time, an overrun clutch
>
> * https://tinyurl.com/y7prvn7b *
>
> prevents the accelerating engine
> from back-driving the starter. If
> this clutch were not present, first
> motion of the engine during pinion gear
> retraction would break things.
>
> This feature was built into the legacy
> 'bendix' drive. Starter motor acceleration
> working against pinion gear mass would
> drive it outward on the shaft by means
> of a spiral groove on the shaft . . .
> engine acceleration tending to over-run
> the starter would drive the pinion back
> from the ring gear with the same groove.
>
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
>
> There have been some hangar-tales of starter
> pinions 'sticking' and back driving starters.
> There have been cases of contactor sticking
> keeping power on the starter thus maintaining
> pinion engagement. But no back driving could
> have occurred due to action of the clutch.
> Had the motor been driven backwards at the
> pinion to ring gear ratio, it would probably
> have slung wires out of the armature and/or
> stripped gear teeth.
>
> The same gear reduction of pinion-to-ring
> allows starter armature to run at several
> thousand rpm to generated 200 rpm at the
> crankshaft. Okay, after engine start and
> run at 1000 rpm, a back-driving situation would
> spin the starter armature 10000 rpm plus?
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter SURGES |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
At 1st glance, I'd suspect there's a flaw in the analysis. If the switch
wasn't releasing, then the starter was still powered, regardless of
whether the engine could drive it or not. That would mean it was running
the entire time the car was running, and starters are not designed for
that. Given the obvious lack of knowledge about the car and limited
expertise of the people working on it, with that many service operations
by those people working on it I'd find it difficult to pick any likely
failure mode for the stuff that failed. Just one thought about the
failure of the regulator: uninformed installation of the battery, even once.
FWIW,
Charlie
On 4/4/2018 7:49 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Bob, all, When I graduated high school back in the dark ages I had a
> 1959 Alfa Romeo Giullietta Spider that had a nightmare starter system.
> First, the electrical system was positive ground. That alone made
> things interesting but the starter, or rather the starter switch was
> the flash point of failure. Why? Because it had no spring return. You
> had to physically turn the starter motor off or the starter would stay
> connected with the ring gear and the engine would drive the starter. I
> was warned by the guy who sold me the car and I only left it engaged
> once for a few seconds. The grinding sound was kind of a give away and
> I got away with it. When I sold the car to my best friend I told him
> what I'd been told, "Never, ever let anyone else drive this car".
> About four weeks after Dave bought it, he let his step brother drive
> the car. He left the starter engaged for the entire 10 miles he drove
> it. The next day, the battery was dead. When checked, it had internal
> shorts and was junk. Dave bought a new Die Hard, the new thing in
> battery advertising, if not battery technology. It lasted a couple of
> weeks and Dave took it back to Sears. The battery was tested and
> failed. He got a new one. It too failed in short order. This went on
> for FOUR batteries before the manager at the Arden Way Sears gave my
> friend a full refund and refused to sell him any more batteries.
> Somewhere in the mess the starter failed and was replaced, the
> generator failed, the headlights would burn out on a regular basis and
> my friend almost became my ex-friend. He was a poor college student
> trying to fix the car with suggestions from his dad and some mechanics
> he knew. Finally his folks loaned him the money to take it to a garage
> that worked on Alfas and they determined that the voltage regulator
> was fried, too. This had gone on for almost six months before he
> finally had the car back in a dependable condition.
> So my take is, yeah, drive the starter and turn it into a generator
> and things are going to screw up in a major way.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> PS Probably the worst part came when Dave was finally able to enjoy
> the car again he took it for a drive on a beautiful day. A truck in
> front of him kicked up a stone that went right through the radiator.
> He pulled into a service station and the engine rattled to a stop. The
> kid at the pump popped open the hood and started filling the radiator
> before Dave could stop him. Put a crack all the way across the roof of
> the number three combustion chamber.
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> >
> wrote:
>
> At 03:46 PM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>> If the bendix gear is sticky, such that the engine is able to
>> drive the starter, I could imagine that it could push a fairly
>> high (albeit short) number of joules back up the wire. Right?
>
>
> the 'Bendix' drive is gone. All starters
> use direct engagement solenoids.
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Starter_mot
>
> A return spring retracts the pinion
> gear upon removal of power from the
> motor. In fact, electrical power to
> the motor is interrupted during the initial
> retraction so there is no torque being
> transmitted from motor to ring gear.
> At the same time, an overrun clutch
>
> *https://tinyurl.com/y7prvn7b *
>
> prevents the accelerating engine
> from back-driving the starter. If
> this clutch were not present, first
> motion of the engine during pinion gear
> retraction would break things.
>
> This feature was built into the legacy
> 'bendix' drive. Starter motor acceleration
> working against pinion gear mass would
> drive it outward on the shaft by means
> of a spiral groove on the shaft . . .
> engine acceleration tending to over-run
> the starter would drive the pinion back
> from the ring gear with the same groove.
>
>
> Emacs!
>
>
> There have been some hangar-tales of starter
> pinions 'sticking' and back driving starters.
> There have been cases of contactor sticking
> keeping power on the starter thus maintaining
> pinion engagement. But no back driving could
> have occurred due to action of the clutch.
> Had the motor been driven backwards at the
> pinion to ring gear ratio, it would probably
> have slung wires out of the armature and/or
> stripped gear teeth.
>
> The same gear reduction of pinion-to-ring
> allows starter armature to run at several
> thousand rpm to generated 200 rpm at the
> crankshaft. Okay, after engine start and
> run at 1000 rpm, a back-driving situation would
> spin the starter armature 10000 rpm plus?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> --
>
>
> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
> Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter SURGES |
Charlie, You're right, the starter was engaged and running but the minute
the engine revved over starting rpm the engine was driving it, too. It's
probably no surprise that the car had English electrics, a mix of Smith and
Lucas. Me experience with it was too many ghost problems. The horn began to
blow one night right as I was on my way out for a date. Disconnected the
horn, went on the date and tried to get the horn working the next day.
Reconnected it and nothing wrong. Never failed again. Then there was the
night the passing lights started flashing on their own. Pulled the whole
steering wheel off, went through it, couldn't find anything, put it back
together, worked fine. Never failed again. As much as I loved the car I
began to think of it as Mussolini's revenge. I didn't know about Lucas
then.....
Rick
On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 8:14 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
> At 1st glance, I'd suspect there's a flaw in the analysis. If the switch
> wasn't releasing, then the starter was still powered, regardless of wheth
er
> the engine could drive it or not. That would mean it was running the enti
re
> time the car was running, and starters are not designed for that. Given t
he
> obvious lack of knowledge about the car and limited expertise of the peop
le
> working on it, with that many service operations by those people working
on
> it I'd find it difficult to pick any likely failure mode for the stuff th
at
> failed. Just one thought about the failure of the regulator: uninformed
> installation of the battery, even once.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Charlie
>
> On 4/4/2018 7:49 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
> Bob, all, When I graduated high school back in the dark ages I had a 1959
> Alfa Romeo Giullietta Spider that had a nightmare starter system. First,
> the electrical system was positive ground. That alone made things
> interesting but the starter, or rather the starter switch was the flash
> point of failure. Why? Because it had no spring return. You had to
> physically turn the starter motor off or the starter would stay connected
> with the ring gear and the engine would drive the starter. I was warned b
y
> the guy who sold me the car and I only left it engaged once for a few
> seconds. The grinding sound was kind of a give away and I got away with i
t.
> When I sold the car to my best friend I told him what I'd been told,
> "Never, ever let anyone else drive this car". About four weeks after Dave
> bought it, he let his step brother drive the car. He left the starter
> engaged for the entire 10 miles he drove it. The next day, the battery wa
s
> dead. When checked, it had internal shorts and was junk. Dave bought a ne
w
> Die Hard, the new thing in battery advertising, if not battery technology
.
> It lasted a couple of weeks and Dave took it back to Sears. The battery w
as
> tested and failed. He got a new one. It too failed in short order. This
> went on for FOUR batteries before the manager at the Arden Way Sears gave
> my friend a full refund and refused to sell him any more batteries.
> Somewhere in the mess the starter failed and was replaced, the generator
> failed, the headlights would burn out on a regular basis and my friend
> almost became my ex-friend. He was a poor college student trying to fix t
he
> car with suggestions from his dad and some mechanics he knew. Finally his
> folks loaned him the money to take it to a garage that worked on Alfas an
d
> they determined that the voltage regulator was fried, too. This had gone
on
> for almost six months before he finally had the car back in a dependable
> condition.
> So my take is, yeah, drive the starter and turn it into a generator and
> things are going to screw up in a major way.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> PS Probably the worst part came when Dave was finally able to enjoy the
> car again he took it for a drive on a beautiful day. A truck in front of
> him kicked up a stone that went right through the radiator. He pulled int
o
> a service station and the engine rattled to a stop. The kid at the pump
> popped open the hood and started filling the radiator before Dave could
> stop him. Put a crack all the way across the roof of the number three
> combustion chamber.
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> At 03:46 PM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>>
>> If the bendix gear is sticky, such that the engine is able to drive the
>> starter, I could imagine that it could push a fairly high (albeit short)
>> number of joules back up the wire. Right?
>>
>>
>>
>> the 'Bendix' drive is gone. All starters
>> use direct engagement solenoids.
>>
>> [image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Starter_mot]
>>
>>
>> A return spring retracts the pinion
>> gear upon removal of power from the
>> motor. In fact, electrical power to
>> the motor is interrupted during the initial
>> retraction so there is no torque being
>> transmitted from motor to ring gear.
>> At the same time, an overrun clutch
>>
>> * https://tinyurl.com/y7prvn7b *
>>
>> prevents the accelerating engine
>> from back-driving the starter. If
>> this clutch were not present, first
>> motion of the engine during pinion gear
>> retraction would break things.
>>
>> This feature was built into the legacy
>> 'bendix' drive. Starter motor acceleration
>> working against pinion gear mass would
>> drive it outward on the shaft by means
>> of a spiral groove on the shaft . . .
>> engine acceleration tending to over-run
>> the starter would drive the pinion back
>> from the ring gear with the same groove.
>>
>>
>> [image: Emacs!]
>>
>>
>>
>> There have been some hangar-tales of starter
>> pinions 'sticking' and back driving starters.
>> There have been cases of contactor sticking
>> keeping power on the starter thus maintaining
>> pinion engagement. But no back driving could
>> have occurred due to action of the clutch.
>> Had the motor been driven backwards at the
>> pinion to ring gear ratio, it would probably
>> have slung wires out of the armature and/or
>> stripped gear teeth.
>>
>> The same gear reduction of pinion-to-ring
>> allows starter armature to run at several
>> thousand rpm to generated 200 rpm at the
>> crankshaft. Okay, after engine start and
>> run at 1000 rpm, a back-driving situation would
>> spin the starter armature 10000 rpm plus?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
>
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo]
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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> <#m_-7793493755374373132_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter SURGES |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Oh, Lucus. You buried the lead. And explained all the problems in one word.
Just so you know, it didn't get much better in the intervening 11 years;
the '70 Spyder I owned housed a demon who made sure I never knew when it
would start. Always turned over, but the bizarre and primitive
electro-mechanical injection had a mind (or demon) of its own.
On 4/4/2018 9:11 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Charlie, You're right, the starter was engaged and running but the
> minute the engine revved over starting rpm the engine was driving it,
> too. It's probably no surprise that the car had English electrics, a
> mix of Smith and Lucas. Me experience with it was too many ghost
> problems. The horn began to blow one night right as I was on my way
> out for a date. Disconnected the horn, went on the date and tried to
> get the horn working the next day. Reconnected it and nothing wrong.
> Never failed again. Then there was the night the passing lights
> started flashing on their own. Pulled the whole steering wheel off,
> went through it, couldn't find anything, put it back together, worked
> fine. Never failed again. As much as I loved the car I began to think
> of it as Mussolini's revenge. I didn't know about Lucas then.....
>
> Rick
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 8:14 PM, Charlie England > wrote:
>
> At 1st glance, I'd suspect there's a flaw in the analysis. If the
> switch wasn't releasing, then the starter was still powered,
> regardless of whether the engine could drive it or not. That would
> mean it was running the entire time the car was running, and
> starters are not designed for that. Given the obvious lack of
> knowledge about the car and limited expertise of the people
> working on it, with that many service operations by those people
> working on it I'd find it difficult to pick any likely failure
> mode for the stuff that failed. Just one thought about the failure
> of the regulator: uninformed installation of the battery, even once.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Charlie
>
> On 4/4/2018 7:49 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>> Bob, all, When I graduated high school back in the dark ages I
>> had a 1959 Alfa Romeo Giullietta Spider that had a nightmare
>> starter system. First, the electrical system was positive ground.
>> That alone made things interesting but the starter, or rather the
>> starter switch was the flash point of failure. Why? Because it
>> had no spring return. You had to physically turn the starter
>> motor off or the starter would stay connected with the ring gear
>> and the engine would drive the starter. I was warned by the guy
>> who sold me the car and I only left it engaged once for a few
>> seconds. The grinding sound was kind of a give away and I got
>> away with it. When I sold the car to my best friend I told him
>> what I'd been told, "Never, ever let anyone else drive this car".
>> About four weeks after Dave bought it, he let his step brother
>> drive the car. He left the starter engaged for the entire 10
>> miles he drove it. The next day, the battery was dead. When
>> checked, it had internal shorts and was junk. Dave bought a new
>> Die Hard, the new thing in battery advertising, if not battery
>> technology. It lasted a couple of weeks and Dave took it back to
>> Sears. The battery was tested and failed. He got a new one. It
>> too failed in short order. This went on for FOUR batteries before
>> the manager at the Arden Way Sears gave my friend a full refund
>> and refused to sell him any more batteries. Somewhere in the mess
>> the starter failed and was replaced, the generator failed, the
>> headlights would burn out on a regular basis and my friend almost
>> became my ex-friend. He was a poor college student trying to fix
>> the car with suggestions from his dad and some mechanics he knew.
>> Finally his folks loaned him the money to take it to a garage
>> that worked on Alfas and they determined that the voltage
>> regulator was fried, too. This had gone on for almost six months
>> before he finally had the car back in a dependable condition.
>> So my take is, yeah, drive the starter and turn it into a
>> generator and things are going to screw up in a major way.
>>
>> Rick Girard
>>
>> PS Probably the worst part came when Dave was finally able to
>> enjoy the car again he took it for a drive on a beautiful day. A
>> truck in front of him kicked up a stone that went right through
>> the radiator. He pulled into a service station and the engine
>> rattled to a stop. The kid at the pump popped open the hood and
>> started filling the radiator before Dave could stop him. Put a
>> crack all the way across the roof of the number three combustion
>> chamber.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> At 03:46 PM 4/4/2018, you wrote:
>>> If the bendix gear is sticky, such that the engine is able
>>> to drive the starter, I could imagine that it could push a
>>> fairly high (albeit short) number of joules back up the
>>> wire. Right?
>>
>>
>> the 'Bendix' drive is gone. All starters
>> use direct engagement solenoids.
>>
>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Starter_mot
>>
>> A return spring retracts the pinion
>> gear upon removal of power from the
>> motor. In fact, electrical power to
>> the motor is interrupted during the initial
>> retraction so there is no torque being
>> transmitted from motor to ring gear.
>> At the same time, an overrun clutch
>>
>> *https://tinyurl.com/y7prvn7b *
>>
>> prevents the accelerating engine
>> from back-driving the starter. If
>> this clutch were not present, first
>> motion of the engine during pinion gear
March 07, 2018 - April 04, 2018
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-og