AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-oi
April 25, 2018 - May 09, 2018
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tshort" <tmshort(at)gmail.com> |
The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testing, only
when the rudder moves.
Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479541#479541
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
Start with a simple (Free)Android phone app
Such as Gauss Meter by Keuwlsoft. It will help locate or confirm the item
that becomes mangetized.
A degauss process is a coil of wire which creates a demagnetize field when
switched on. They were commonly used by TV techs in the 60s -70s to remove
interference in Cathode Ray color picture tubes back in the day.
John Cox
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 01:50 tshort wrote:
>
> The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testing,
> only when the rudder moves.
>
> Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
>
> Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479541#479541
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron). Remove the two screws that hold the
heating element. Put the heating element around the rudder cable and reassemble
the soldering gun. Turn on the soldering gun and slowly move it along the
rudder cable, being careful not to burn yourself or anything else.
I have never done this and have never heard about others doing it. But hey, it
is worth a try.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479544#479544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Hello Shorty:
Very Interesting!
In the good old days it was very easy to make a Degaussing Coil (D-C),
actually the coil was already made for you and all you had to do was hook
up 110 VAC.
The Coil was the DEFLECTION COIL on the back of the old TV's... It is the
large coil that slipped over the shank of the CRT... Cathode Ray Tube.
All that a D-C is, is a very long length of a coil of wire. To the ends of
the coil you apply 110 VAC through a PUSH BUTTON switch. It continuously
reverses the magnetic fields at the rate of 60 times per second (60 Hz).
The coil is then slowly moved in ONE DIRECTION along the length of the item
you wish to demagnetize.
OK, lets prove the cables are magnetized. I doubt it! Why? Because the
cable are made of a low ferrous metal. The cables are advertised as
Stainless Steel (S/S). True, not all S/S is non-magnetic.
Start with a COMPASS - Move the compass along the length of the cables and
of course the STEEL pivot points. The Compass will point directly to the
magnetized item.
Sounds like you are installing a G5 system?
ALSO... Go back and watch your DG/HSI as you move the rudder peddles. The
Heading should change as the peddles are moved. Move them slowly from stop
to stop. My SWAG is: If the Heading does NOT change - Don't worry about
it, you are good to go! The test procedure is way more sensitive/selective
than the Magnetometer and the DG/HSI.
If the DG/HSI does move then YES - Use the D-C.
Side Note: You can also do as ships do: Fly a course in direct Opposition
to the magnetic fields of the earth. This is used to Degauss the ship...
in your case the plane (ship). Look up Ship Degaussing procedures - Check
out "The Chapman's Manual".
Since there are very few old TV's which you can steal a coil from let's
move to your next options.
1 - Look for a place where you can purchase or rent a D-C. Look at the old
electronic shops.
2 - Obtain a ROLL of INSULATED wire - 24 to 34 AWG about 1,000 Ft. You
will have to have access to BOTH ends of the wire. Then all you have to do
connect a 110 VAC line and a Push Button Switch to the ends. The go GAUSS!
Best of luck,
Barry
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:44 AM, tshort wrote:
>
> The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testing,
> only when the rudder moves.
>
> Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
>
> Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479541#479541
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
WOW! GREAT TRICK JOE!!! GREAT TRICK!
Barry
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:52 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron). Remove the two screws that
> hold the heating element. Put the heating element around the rudder cable
> and reassemble the soldering gun. Turn on the soldering gun and slowly
> move it along the rudder cable, being careful not to burn yourself or
> anything else.
> I have never done this and have never heard about others doing it. But
> hey, it is worth a try.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479544#479544
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magic stuff . . . |
Thanks Bob! I shall continue with my present practice of carefully NOT spraying
WD40 into every switch annually.
On Apr 24, 2018, at 11:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
At 07:12 PM 4/24/2018, you wrote:
>
> I lost track of which Bob was recommending annual WD-40 as a switch failure preventive
prophylactic, and which Bob wasnt.
> Can someone advise?
The short answer is "no".
The longer answer is, check the engineering
data on any line of switches or relays you
might be considering for your project. You
will find a constellation of styles and
ratings. It will be a rare switch or relay
that is rated for less than TENS OF THOUSANDS
of operations at rated load.
Now, consider how heavily you are going to load
this device . . . pushing the ratings? Probably
not. So from an ELECTRICAL perspective, the
service life of this devices will be some factor
greater than rated. Then we consider mechanical
service life . . . which logically exceeds the
rated electrical service life.
Now, how many operations are you going to put
on this device every year? Based on your
anticipated service demands, how many flight
hours will you put on the switch before it's
at risk for end of life? Trust me, it's a BIG
number . . . so big in fact that and end of
life failure is exceedingly tiny if not
zero. You cannot wear out that device during
your life experience with the airplane.
Hmmmm . . . switches and relays get replaced
all the time. Yup . . . and probably for
reasons unrelated to actual operating cycles
on the device. Okay, what's the reason
for premature failure? It's probably a combination
of serval things . . . most of which you'll
have no control over.
Hmmmm . . . what's a poor owner operator to do?
Can't tell you without going through the kinds
of failure analysis that dominated the last
10 years of my career in GA. The analysis
was expensive, time consuming and seldom
revealed a cheap and dirty resolution. Some
failures were one-of events usually based
on some fabrication error . . . it took
5-6 weeks of pushing one poor customer's
airplane up the chain of time, talent
and resources before I talked the pilots
into letting me tape a 37 conductor ribbon
cable to the fuselage and past gaskets in
the baggage and passenger doors. With this
rig I was able to watch a constellation
of parameters in the tail while we climbed
to 41000 feet . . . one more time . . . in
search of the elusive failure.
Found a crimp pin in a pressure bulkhead feed
through that was not seated. The wire bundles
had to get cold and shrink enough to pull the
pin back and cause the failure to manifest.
That 10-cent error cost tens of thousands
to chase down.
What's this have to do with switches on your
panel? It's but one example of how root cause
for a mis-behavior can run the range from
observable broken wires, dripping water or
hydraulic fluid, temperature cycles combined
with ozone concentrations, . . . all the way
up to failures that would only manifest
at altitude after consuming about as much fuel
in one flight as my wife's Saturn consumed in
a year.
Go back and look at the engineering data for
the device. I've never seen a manufacturer
recommend any form of periodic maintenance . . .
much less squirt 'magic stuff' into the device's
cracks with some notion of improving service
life or, worse yet, 'refurbishing' a misbehaving
switch.
Back in the day, we had several cans of cleaners,
lubes, sealers, etc. on the workbench where we
repaired radio and television sets. It was always
gratifying to drive the mischief out of a rotary
switch, noisy volume control or arcing flyback
transformer with a squirt of magic stuff.
But we're talking about airplanes now. We're
talking about devices that have obviously failed
to meet service life predictions. Okay, now what?
What forces in physics are responsible? Will
'magic stuff' mitigate those forces . . .
probably not. Will they 'repair' the effects
or simply squeeze a few more operations out of
a device that is close to gross failure? Finally,
how do you KNOW that you've squirted the magic
stuff into the RIGHT location and that it
doesn't present a new hazard to functionality
if it gets into the WRONG location.
Finally, how hard is it to replace a $5 switch that's
held on the panel with one nut and wired with a
couple or three fast-ons? I used to recommend
that my seminar attendees take a sunny afternoon
and $50 worth of switches and replace everything
on the panel . . . just for the hell of it.
System reliability benefits far more from
preventative maintenance than it does from
magic stuff applied to a device that's already
begging for help.
One more example. One day at Beech, a sales
rep came out to pitch a particular kind of
magic stuff. I think it was called "Stabilant 22."
It was reputed, nay, demonstrated to improve the
quality of metallic connection between pins and
sockets in our harness connectors. So, we
piled engineering data, test reports, user
testimonials, etc. etc. against field service
experience on a fleet of thousands of airplanes
gathered over 50+ years.
Yeah, Stabilant 22 was pretty whippy stuff . . .
but expensive and labor intensive with a risk
for waste due to spillage and getting it on
the wrong surfaces. I could just see the faces
of our line techs when we handed each one a bottle
of magic stuff with a requirement to properly apply
to each connector before it was mated up.
Then, there was the question, what's the return
on investment? After some consideration, we deduced
that it was a 'fix' for a problem we didn't have.
So there your have the long answer. If any combination
of components on your airplane is crying out for
help, then replace on condition is the
lowest risk and probably the lowest cost approach
to risk management. WD40 is good for the kid's
tricycle that might sit out and get rained on
from time to time.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magic stuff . . . |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Another side to the issue. WD-40 is essentially fish oil or a synthetic
clone of fish oil. It dries up over time and leaves a very sticky mess,
as well as attracting dirt.
If you insist on lubricating connections, ACF-50 or Corrosion X or just
contact cleaner are better alternatives.
The only use I have found for WD-40 around an airplane that doesn't
cause future problems is to use it as a belly cleaning solution.
Kelly
On 4/25/2018 6:38 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob! I shall continue with my present practice of carefully NOT spraying
WD40 into every switch annually.
>
>> I lost track of which Bob was recommending annual WD-40 as a switch failure
preventive prophylactic, and which Bob wasnt.
>> Can someone advise?
>
> The short answer is "no".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron).
Remove the two screws that hold the heating
element. Put the heating element around the
rudder cable and reassemble the soldering gun.
Turn on the soldering gun and slowly move it
along the rudder cable, being careful not to
burn yourself or anything else.
I have never done this and have never heard
about others doing it. But hey, it is worth a try.
It works. I've used the soldering gun to
demag small tools. There are several articles
on the 'net for doing similar tasks.
demagnitizer from old soldering gun.jpg
Here the author made up a coil of longer
wire (gives stronger field with less heating).
One could take a piece of bare 12AWG copper
and form it 4-5 turns around the target
material before reconnecting to the soldering
gun. I've measured the current in stock
Weller tips at over 200 amps. So using
the single-turn of a stock tip would
give you 200+ ampere-turns of flux.
Fabricated coils will be higher
resistance but if you can get 150A
through 5 turns, your degaussing flux
rises to 750AT.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
=2E . . any chance there is other electronics "back" there that are operati
onal, such as tail strobe and power supply causing interference with flux..
??
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
Hello Shorty:
Very Interesting!
In the good old days it was very easy to make a Degaussing Coil (D-C), ac
tually the coil was already made for you and all you had to do was hook up
110 VAC.
The Coil was the DEFLECTION COIL on the back of the old TV's... It is th
e large coil that slipped over the shank of the CRT... Cathode Ray Tube.
All that a D-C is, is a very long length of a coil of wire. To the ends
of the coil you apply 110 VAC through a PUSH BUTTON switch. It continuousl
y reverses the magnetic fields at the rate of 60 times per second (60 Hz).
The coil is then slowly moved in ONE DIRECTION along the length of the ite
m you wish to demagnetize.
OK, lets prove the cables are magnetized. I doubt it! Why? Because the
cable are made of a low ferrous metal. The cables are advertised as Stain
less Steel (S/S). True, not all S/S is non-magnetic.
Start with a COMPASS - Move the compass along the length of the cables an
d of course the STEEL pivot points. The Compass will point directly to the
magnetized item.
Sounds like you are installing a G5 system?
ALSO... Go back and watch your DG/HSI as you move the rudder peddles. T
he Heading should change as the peddles are moved. Move them slowly from s
top to stop. My SWAG is: If the Heading does NOT change - Don't worry abo
ut it, you are good to go! The test procedure is way more sensitive/select
ive than the Magnetometer and the DG/HSI.
If the DG/HSI does move then YES - Use the D-C.
Side Note: You can also do as ships do: Fly a course in direct Oppositi
on to the magnetic fields of the earth. This is used to Degauss the ship..
=2E in your case the plane (ship). Look up Ship Degaussing procedures - C
heck out "The Chapman's Manual".
Since there are very few old TV's which you can steal a coil from let's m
ove to your next options.
1 - Look for a place where you can purchase or rent a D-C. Look at the o
ld electronic shops.
2 - Obtain a ROLL of INSULATED wire - 24 to 34 AWG about 1,000 Ft. You w
ill have to have access to BOTH ends of the wire. Then all you have to do
connect a 110 VAC line and a Push Button Switch to the ends. The go GAUSS!
Best of luck,
Barry
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:44 AM, tshort wrote:
The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testin
g, only when the rudder moves.
Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 02:49 PM 4/25/2018, you wrote:
>=EF=BB
>. . . any chance there is other electronics
>"back" there that are operational, such as tail
>strobe and power supply causing interference with flux..??
Excellent question. I am skeptical of the notion
that control cables have become magnetized . . .
and if they were, they would have to carry
flux lines longitudinally . . . i.e. little
to no discernable changes in magnetic field
as the cables operate to affect rudder
position.
But if moving the rudder has an observable
effect, then there has to be a foundation
in physics for the observation.
On the other hand, does it matter? If
the magnetic compass feature is 'swung'
with the rudder centered . . . what
is the probability of introducing a
critical error into the system's magnetic
nav data with a large rudder excursion?
Most autonomous attitude tracking involves
very small excursions of flight controls.
If rudder motion was a source of error, just
how often and under what conditions would
that error manifest?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Paulk <bobbypaulk(at)comcast.net> |
I tried most of the suggestions listed but finally had to move the magnetometer
as high as I could from the rudder cables. Right behind the baggage compartment
was great. I have never had a compass as accurate. You can also change the
cables to a good grade of Stainless ( non magnetic ) Steel.
Keep your cables far away from a DC welding machine while building.
Bobby
Zodiac 601
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ronaldcox" <flyboyron(at)gmail.com> |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron).
> Remove the two screws that hold the heating
> element. Put the heating element around the
> rudder cable and reassemble the soldering gun.
> Turn on the soldering gun and slowly move it
> along the rudder cable, being careful not to
> burn yourself or anything else.
>
> I have never done this and have never heard
> about others doing it. But hey, it is worth a try.
>
>
> It works. I've used the soldering gun to
> demag small tools. There are several articles
> on the 'net for doing similar tasks.
>
>
>
> Here the author made up a coil of longer
> wire (gives stronger field with less heating).
>
> One could take a piece of bare 12AWG copper
> and form it 4-5 turns around the target
> material before reconnecting to the soldering
> gun. I've measured the current in stock
> Weller tips at over 200 amps. So using
> the single-turn of a stock tip would
> give you 200+ ampere-turns of flux.
>
> Fabricated coils will be higher
> resistance but if you can get 150A
> through 5 turns, your degaussing flux
> rises to 750AT.
>
>
> Bob . . .
I wonder if an old magnetic tape eraser would work.
I have one that I used to use to erase magnetic tapes, and I'll bet that would
work. If you can find one in a second-hand shop, that might work. Might even be
easier to find than a soldering gun!
Mine looks like a small clothes iron encased in a plastic box with a handle and
a trigger.
Used to use it for VCR tapes, audio tapes, and computer backup tapes when the need
arose. I've seen them in the aircraft aisle at the local Salvation Army store.
:?
Also, it wouldn't have to be the cable that's magnetized. As others have said,
that's unlikely. But it could be a steel bolt, or possibly bell-crank or swaged-on
fitting.
I'm trying to think of other things in that area that would be ferrous metal, but
there isn't much in most planes. There's the hinge pin, but that wouldn't
change position with rudder movement.
Just another possible solution.
Ron
--------
Ron Cox
Glasair Super II F/T
Under Construction at C77 - About to fly!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479570#479570
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 07:29 AM 4/26/2018, you wrote:
>I tried most of the suggestions listed but finally had to move the
>magnetometer as high as I could from the rudder cables. Right behind
>the baggage compartment was great. I have never had a compass as
>accurate. You can also change the cables to a good grade of
>Stainless ( non magnetic ) Steel.
>
>Keep your cables far away from a DC welding machine while building.
Upon further pondering of your observations
and success, I'm now thinking that the cables
were probably not magnetized. If they are
MAGNETIC . . . meaning that they are attracted
to a magnet . . . then they are capable of
DISTORTING an external magnetic field (earth
flux) without being magnetized.
This condition seems more likely . . .
Mounting earth flux sensors of any strip
on or within vehicles has been fraught with
challenges. Most of our experience with
aluminum and plastic airplanes has been pretty
benign but there are occasional exceptions.
Had a guy on the List a few years back that
had a badly magnetized fuselage frame for
a rag-n-tube airplane.
From what you've shared here, it's almost
a certainty that degaussing the cables would
have not been useful. Further, the problem
you observed and worked around was a simple
distortion due to proximity.
Thanks for sharing!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Buchmann <buchdvm(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 04/25/18 |
I am going to run Bob's contribution thru the DeGausser to understand it
all=F0=9F=98=8E
I just bought a $40.00 DeGausser to heal my windup Mantel clock
KenB
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 1:30 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server <
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of
> the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
> editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=html&Chapter 18-04-25&Archive=AeroElectric
>
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>
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> 82701&View=txt&Chapter 18-04-25&Archive=AeroElectric
>
>
> ========================
=======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
=======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 04/25/18: 10
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:44 AM - Degaussing (tshort)
> 2. 02:22 AM - Re: Degaussing (John Cox)
> 3. 05:52 AM - Re: Degaussing (user9253)
> 4. 06:35 AM - Re: Degaussing (FLYaDIVE)
> 5. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Degaussing (FLYaDIVE)
> 6. 06:40 AM - Re: Magic stuff . . . (Alec Myers)
> 7. 06:53 AM - Re: Magic stuff . . . (Kelly McMullen)
> 8. 12:37 PM - Re: Re: Degaussing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 9. 12:51 PM - Re: Degaussing (David Lloyd)
> 10. 07:51 PM - Re: Degaussing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
> From: "tshort" <tmshort(at)gmail.com>
>
>
> The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testing,
> only
> when the rudder moves.
>
> Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
>
> Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479541#479541
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
> Start with a simple (Free)Android phone app
> Such as Gauss Meter by Keuwlsoft. It will help locate or confirm the ite
m
> that becomes mangetized.
>
> A degauss process is a coil of wire which creates a demagnetize field whe
n
> switched on. They were commonly used by TV techs in the 60s -70s to remo
ve
> interference in Cathode Ray color picture tubes back in the day.
>
> John Cox
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 01:50 tshort wrote:
>
> >
> > The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testin
g,
> > only when the rudder moves.
> >
> > Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
> >
> > Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479541#479541
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Degaussing
> From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
>
>
> Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron). Remove the two screws that
> hold the
> heating element. Put the heating element around the rudder cable and
> reassemble
> the soldering gun. Turn on the soldering gun and slowly move it along th
e
> rudder cable, being careful not to burn yourself or anything else.
> I have never done this and have never heard about others doing it. But
> hey, it
> is worth a try.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479544#479544
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
> Hello Shorty:
>
> Very Interesting!
> In the good old days it was very easy to make a Degaussing Coil (D-C),
> actually the coil was already made for you and all you had to do was hook
> up 110 VAC.
> The Coil was the DEFLECTION COIL on the back of the old TV's... It is th
e
> large coil that slipped over the shank of the CRT... Cathode Ray Tube.
> All that a D-C is, is a very long length of a coil of wire. To the ends
of
> the coil you apply 110 VAC through a PUSH BUTTON switch. It continuously
> reverses the magnetic fields at the rate of 60 times per second (60 Hz).
> The coil is then slowly moved in ONE DIRECTION along the length of the it
em
> you wish to demagnetize.
>
> OK, lets prove the cables are magnetized. I doubt it! Why? Because the
> cable are made of a low ferrous metal. The cables are advertised as
> Stainless Steel (S/S). True, not all S/S is non-magnetic.
> Start with a COMPASS - Move the compass along the length of the cables an
d
> of course the STEEL pivot points. The Compass will point directly to the
> magnetized item.
>
> Sounds like you are installing a G5 system?
>
> ALSO... Go back and watch your DG/HSI as you move the rudder peddles. T
he
> Heading should change as the peddles are moved. Move them slowly from st
op
> to stop. My SWAG is: If the Heading does NOT change - Don't worry about
> it, you are good to go! The test procedure is way more sensitive/selecti
ve
> than the Magnetometer and the DG/HSI.
> If the DG/HSI does move then YES - Use the D-C.
> Side Note: You can also do as ships do: Fly a course in direct Oppositi
on
> to the magnetic fields of the earth. This is used to Degauss the ship...
> in your case the plane (ship). Look up Ship Degaussing procedures - Chec
k
> out "The Chapman's Manual".
>
> Since there are very few old TV's which you can steal a coil from let's
> move to your next options.
> 1 - Look for a place where you can purchase or rent a D-C. Look at the o
ld
> electronic shops.
> 2 - Obtain a ROLL of INSULATED wire - 24 to 34 AWG about 1,000 Ft. You
> will have to have access to BOTH ends of the wire. Then all you have to
do
> connect a 110 VAC line and a Push Button Switch to the ends. The go GAUS
S!
>
> Best of luck,
> Barry
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:44 AM, tshort wrote:
>
> >
> > The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testin
g,
> > only when the rudder moves.
> >
> > Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
> >
> > Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479541#479541
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Degaussing
>
> WOW! GREAT TRICK JOE!!! GREAT TRICK!
>
> Barry
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:52 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> >
> > Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron). Remove the two screws that
> > hold the heating element. Put the heating element around the rudder
> cable
> > and reassemble the soldering gun. Turn on the soldering gun and slowly
> > move it along the rudder cable, being careful not to burn yourself or
> > anything else.
> > I have never done this and have never heard about others doing it. But
> > hey, it is worth a try.
> >
> > --------
> > Joe Gores
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479544#479544
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magic stuff . . .
>
>
> Thanks Bob! I shall continue with my present practice of carefully NOT
> spraying
> WD40 into every switch annually.
>
>
> On Apr 24, 2018, at 11:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> wrote:
>
> At 07:12 PM 4/24/2018, you wrote:
> >
> > I lost track of which Bob was recommending annual WD-40 as a switch
> failure preventive
> prophylactic, and which Bob wasnt.
> > Can someone advise?
>
> The short answer is "no".
>
> The longer answer is, check the engineering
> data on any line of switches or relays you
> might be considering for your project. You
> will find a constellation of styles and
> ratings. It will be a rare switch or relay
> that is rated for less than TENS OF THOUSANDS
> of operations at rated load.
>
> Now, consider how heavily you are going to load
> this device . . . pushing the ratings? Probably
> not. So from an ELECTRICAL perspective, the
> service life of this devices will be some factor
> greater than rated. Then we consider mechanical
> service life . . . which logically exceeds the
> rated electrical service life.
>
> Now, how many operations are you going to put
> on this device every year? Based on your
> anticipated service demands, how many flight
> hours will you put on the switch before it's
> at risk for end of life? Trust me, it's a BIG
> number . . . so big in fact that and end of
> life failure is exceedingly tiny if not
> zero. You cannot wear out that device during
> your life experience with the airplane.
>
> Hmmmm . . . switches and relays get replaced
> all the time. Yup . . . and probably for
> reasons unrelated to actual operating cycles
> on the device. Okay, what's the reason
> for premature failure? It's probably a combination
> of serval things . . . most of which you'll
> have no control over.
>
> Hmmmm . . . what's a poor owner operator to do?
> Can't tell you without going through the kinds
> of failure analysis that dominated the last
> 10 years of my career in GA. The analysis
> was expensive, time consuming and seldom
> revealed a cheap and dirty resolution. Some
> failures were one-of events usually based
> on some fabrication error . . . it took
> 5-6 weeks of pushing one poor customer's
> airplane up the chain of time, talent
> and resources before I talked the pilots
> into letting me tape a 37 conductor ribbon
> cable to the fuselage and past gaskets in
> the baggage and passenger doors. With this
> rig I was able to watch a constellation
> of parameters in the tail while we climbed
> to 41000 feet . . . one more time . . . in
> search of the elusive failure.
>
> Found a crimp pin in a pressure bulkhead feed
> through that was not seated. The wire bundles
> had to get cold and shrink enough to pull the
> pin back and cause the failure to manifest.
>
> That 10-cent error cost tens of thousands
> to chase down.
>
> What's this have to do with switches on your
> panel? It's but one example of how root cause
> for a mis-behavior can run the range from
> observable broken wires, dripping water or
> hydraulic fluid, temperature cycles combined
> with ozone concentrations, . . . all the way
> up to failures that would only manifest
> at altitude after consuming about as much fuel
> in one flight as my wife's Saturn consumed in
> a year.
>
> Go back and look at the engineering data for
> the device. I've never seen a manufacturer
> recommend any form of periodic maintenance . . .
> much less squirt 'magic stuff' into the device's
> cracks with some notion of improving service
> life or, worse yet, 'refurbishing' a misbehaving
> switch.
>
> Back in the day, we had several cans of cleaners,
> lubes, sealers, etc. on the workbench where we
> repaired radio and television sets. It was always
> gratifying to drive the mischief out of a rotary
> switch, noisy volume control or arcing flyback
> transformer with a squirt of magic stuff.
>
> But we're talking about airplanes now. We're
> talking about devices that have obviously failed
> to meet service life predictions. Okay, now what?
> What forces in physics are responsible? Will
> 'magic stuff' mitigate those forces . . .
> probably not. Will they 'repair' the effects
> or simply squeeze a few more operations out of
> a device that is close to gross failure? Finally,
> how do you KNOW that you've squirted the magic
> stuff into the RIGHT location and that it
> doesn't present a new hazard to functionality
> if it gets into the WRONG location.
>
> Finally, how hard is it to replace a $5 switch that's
> held on the panel with one nut and wired with a
> couple or three fast-ons? I used to recommend
> that my seminar attendees take a sunny afternoon
> and $50 worth of switches and replace everything
> on the panel . . . just for the hell of it.
>
> System reliability benefits far more from
> preventative maintenance than it does from
> magic stuff applied to a device that's already
> begging for help.
>
> One more example. One day at Beech, a sales
> rep came out to pitch a particular kind of
> magic stuff. I think it was called "Stabilant 22."
>
> It was reputed, nay, demonstrated to improve the
> quality of metallic connection between pins and
> sockets in our harness connectors. So, we
> piled engineering data, test reports, user
> testimonials, etc. etc. against field service
> experience on a fleet of thousands of airplanes
> gathered over 50+ years.
>
> Yeah, Stabilant 22 was pretty whippy stuff . . .
> but expensive and labor intensive with a risk
> for waste due to spillage and getting it on
> the wrong surfaces. I could just see the faces
> of our line techs when we handed each one a bottle
> of magic stuff with a requirement to properly apply
> to each connector before it was mated up.
>
> Then, there was the question, what's the return
> on investment? After some consideration, we deduced
> that it was a 'fix' for a problem we didn't have.
>
> So there your have the long answer. If any combination
> of components on your airplane is crying out for
> help, then replace on condition is the
> lowest risk and probably the lowest cost approach
> to risk management. WD40 is good for the kid's
> tricycle that might sit out and get rained on
> from time to time.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magic stuff . . .
> From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
>
>
> Another side to the issue. WD-40 is essentially fish oil or a synthetic
> clone of fish oil. It dries up over time and leaves a very sticky mess,
> as well as attracting dirt.
> If you insist on lubricating connections, ACF-50 or Corrosion X or just
> contact cleaner are better alternatives.
> The only use I have found for WD-40 around an airplane that doesn't
> cause future problems is to use it as a belly cleaning solution.
>
> Kelly
>
> On 4/25/2018 6:38 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Bob! I shall continue with my present practice of carefully NOT
> spraying
> WD40 into every switch annually.
> >
>
> >> I lost track of which Bob was recommending annual WD-40 as a switch
> failure
> preventive prophylactic, and which Bob wasnt.
> >> Can someone advise?
> >
> > The short answer is "no".
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Degaussing
>
> Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron).
> Remove the two screws that hold the heating
> element. Put the heating element around the
> rudder cable and reassemble the soldering gun.
> Turn on the soldering gun and slowly move it
> along the rudder cable, being careful not to
> burn yourself or anything else.
>
> I have never done this and have never heard
> about others doing it. But hey, it is worth a try.
>
>
> It works. I've used the soldering gun to
> demag small tools. There are several articles
> on the 'net for doing similar tasks.
>
> demagnitizer from old soldering gun.jpg
>
>
> Here the author made up a coil of longer
> wire (gives stronger field with less heating).
>
> One could take a piece of bare 12AWG copper
> and form it 4-5 turns around the target
> material before reconnecting to the soldering
> gun. I've measured the current in stock
> Weller tips at over 200 amps. So using
> the single-turn of a stock tip would
> give you 200+ ampere-turns of flux.
>
> Fabricated coils will be higher
> resistance but if you can get 150A
> through 5 turns, your degaussing flux
> rises to 750AT.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
> =2E . . any chance there is other electronics "back" there that are ope
rati
> onal, such as tail strobe and power supply causing interference with flux
..
> ??
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> -----
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 6:33 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
>
> Hello Shorty:
>
>
> Very Interesting!
> In the good old days it was very easy to make a Degaussing Coil (D-C),
ac
> tually the coil was already made for you and all you had to do was hook u
p
> 110 VAC.
> The Coil was the DEFLECTION COIL on the back of the old TV's... It is
th
> e large coil that slipped over the shank of the CRT... Cathode Ray Tube.
>
> All that a D-C is, is a very long length of a coil of wire. To the end
s
> of the coil you apply 110 VAC through a PUSH BUTTON switch. It continuou
sl
> y reverses the magnetic fields at the rate of 60 times per second (60 Hz)
.
> The coil is then slowly moved in ONE DIRECTION along the length of the i
te
> m you wish to demagnetize.
>
>
> OK, lets prove the cables are magnetized. I doubt it! Why? Because t
he
> cable are made of a low ferrous metal. The cables are advertised as Sta
in
> less Steel (S/S). True, not all S/S is non-magnetic.
> Start with a COMPASS - Move the compass along the length of the cables
an
> d of course the STEEL pivot points. The Compass will point directly to t
he
> magnetized item.
>
>
> Sounds like you are installing a G5 system?
>
>
> ALSO... Go back and watch your DG/HSI as you move the rudder peddles.
T
> he Heading should change as the peddles are moved. Move them slowly from
s
> top to stop. My SWAG is: If the Heading does NOT change - Don't worry a
bo
> ut it, you are good to go! The test procedure is way more sensitive/sele
ct
> ive than the Magnetometer and the DG/HSI.
> If the DG/HSI does move then YES - Use the D-C.
> Side Note: You can also do as ships do: Fly a course in direct Opposi
ti
> on to the magnetic fields of the earth. This is used to Degauss the ship
..
> =2E in your case the plane (ship). Look up Ship Degaussing procedures
- C
> heck out "The Chapman's Manual".
>
>
> Since there are very few old TV's which you can steal a coil from let's
m
> ove to your next options.
> 1 - Look for a place where you can purchase or rent a D-C. Look at the
o
> ld electronic shops.
> 2 - Obtain a ROLL of INSULATED wire - 24 to 34 AWG about 1,000 Ft. You
w
> ill have to have access to BOTH ends of the wire. Then all you have to d
o
> connect a 110 VAC line and a Push Button Switch to the ends. The go GAUS
S!
>
>
> Best of luck,
> Barry
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:44 AM, tshort wrote:
>
>
> The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference test
in
> g, only when the rudder moves.
>
> Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
>
> Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
> At 02:49 PM 4/25/2018, you wrote:
> >=EF=BB
> >. . . any chance there is other electronics
> >"back" there that are operational, such as tail
> >strobe and power supply causing interference with flux..??
>
> Excellent question. I am skeptical of the notion
> that control cables have become magnetized . . .
> and if they were, they would have to carry
> flux lines longitudinally . . . i.e. little
> to no discernable changes in magnetic field
> as the cables operate to affect rudder
> position.
>
> But if moving the rudder has an observable
> effect, then there has to be a foundation
> in physics for the observation.
>
> On the other hand, does it matter? If
> the magnetic compass feature is 'swung'
> with the rudder centered . . . what
> is the probability of introducing a
> critical error into the system's magnetic
> nav data with a large rudder excursion?
> Most autonomous attitude tracking involves
> very small excursions of flight controls.
> If rudder motion was a source of error, just
> how often and under what conditions would
> that error manifest?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Buchmann <buchdvm(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 04/25/18 |
I am going to run Bob's contribution thru the DeGausser to understand it
all=F0=9F=98=8E
I just bought a $40.00 DeGausser to heal my windup Mantel clock
KenB
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 1:30 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server <
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
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> the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
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> editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=html&Chapter 18-04-25&Archive=AeroElectric
>
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>
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> ========================
=======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
=======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 04/25/18: 10
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:44 AM - Degaussing (tshort)
> 2. 02:22 AM - Re: Degaussing (John Cox)
> 3. 05:52 AM - Re: Degaussing (user9253)
> 4. 06:35 AM - Re: Degaussing (FLYaDIVE)
> 5. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Degaussing (FLYaDIVE)
> 6. 06:40 AM - Re: Magic stuff . . . (Alec Myers)
> 7. 06:53 AM - Re: Magic stuff . . . (Kelly McMullen)
> 8. 12:37 PM - Re: Re: Degaussing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 9. 12:51 PM - Re: Degaussing (David Lloyd)
> 10. 07:51 PM - Re: Degaussing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
> From: "tshort" <tmshort(at)gmail.com>
>
>
> The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testing,
> only
> when the rudder moves.
>
> Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
>
> Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479541#479541
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
> Start with a simple (Free)Android phone app
> Such as Gauss Meter by Keuwlsoft. It will help locate or confirm the ite
m
> that becomes mangetized.
>
> A degauss process is a coil of wire which creates a demagnetize field whe
n
> switched on. They were commonly used by TV techs in the 60s -70s to remo
ve
> interference in Cathode Ray color picture tubes back in the day.
>
> John Cox
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 01:50 tshort wrote:
>
> >
> > The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testin
g,
> > only when the rudder moves.
> >
> > Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
> >
> > Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479541#479541
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Degaussing
> From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
>
>
> Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron). Remove the two screws that
> hold the
> heating element. Put the heating element around the rudder cable and
> reassemble
> the soldering gun. Turn on the soldering gun and slowly move it along th
e
> rudder cable, being careful not to burn yourself or anything else.
> I have never done this and have never heard about others doing it. But
> hey, it
> is worth a try.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479544#479544
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
> Hello Shorty:
>
> Very Interesting!
> In the good old days it was very easy to make a Degaussing Coil (D-C),
> actually the coil was already made for you and all you had to do was hook
> up 110 VAC.
> The Coil was the DEFLECTION COIL on the back of the old TV's... It is th
e
> large coil that slipped over the shank of the CRT... Cathode Ray Tube.
> All that a D-C is, is a very long length of a coil of wire. To the ends
of
> the coil you apply 110 VAC through a PUSH BUTTON switch. It continuously
> reverses the magnetic fields at the rate of 60 times per second (60 Hz).
> The coil is then slowly moved in ONE DIRECTION along the length of the it
em
> you wish to demagnetize.
>
> OK, lets prove the cables are magnetized. I doubt it! Why? Because the
> cable are made of a low ferrous metal. The cables are advertised as
> Stainless Steel (S/S). True, not all S/S is non-magnetic.
> Start with a COMPASS - Move the compass along the length of the cables an
d
> of course the STEEL pivot points. The Compass will point directly to the
> magnetized item.
>
> Sounds like you are installing a G5 system?
>
> ALSO... Go back and watch your DG/HSI as you move the rudder peddles. T
he
> Heading should change as the peddles are moved. Move them slowly from st
op
> to stop. My SWAG is: If the Heading does NOT change - Don't worry about
> it, you are good to go! The test procedure is way more sensitive/selecti
ve
> than the Magnetometer and the DG/HSI.
> If the DG/HSI does move then YES - Use the D-C.
> Side Note: You can also do as ships do: Fly a course in direct Oppositi
on
> to the magnetic fields of the earth. This is used to Degauss the ship...
> in your case the plane (ship). Look up Ship Degaussing procedures - Chec
k
> out "The Chapman's Manual".
>
> Since there are very few old TV's which you can steal a coil from let's
> move to your next options.
> 1 - Look for a place where you can purchase or rent a D-C. Look at the o
ld
> electronic shops.
> 2 - Obtain a ROLL of INSULATED wire - 24 to 34 AWG about 1,000 Ft. You
> will have to have access to BOTH ends of the wire. Then all you have to
do
> connect a 110 VAC line and a Push Button Switch to the ends. The go GAUS
S!
>
> Best of luck,
> Barry
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:44 AM, tshort wrote:
>
> >
> > The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference testin
g,
> > only when the rudder moves.
> >
> > Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
> >
> > Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479541#479541
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Degaussing
>
> WOW! GREAT TRICK JOE!!! GREAT TRICK!
>
> Barry
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:52 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> >
> > Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron). Remove the two screws that
> > hold the heating element. Put the heating element around the rudder
> cable
> > and reassemble the soldering gun. Turn on the soldering gun and slowly
> > move it along the rudder cable, being careful not to burn yourself or
> > anything else.
> > I have never done this and have never heard about others doing it. But
> > hey, it is worth a try.
> >
> > --------
> > Joe Gores
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479544#479544
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magic stuff . . .
>
>
> Thanks Bob! I shall continue with my present practice of carefully NOT
> spraying
> WD40 into every switch annually.
>
>
> On Apr 24, 2018, at 11:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> wrote:
>
> At 07:12 PM 4/24/2018, you wrote:
> >
> > I lost track of which Bob was recommending annual WD-40 as a switch
> failure preventive
> prophylactic, and which Bob wasnt.
> > Can someone advise?
>
> The short answer is "no".
>
> The longer answer is, check the engineering
> data on any line of switches or relays you
> might be considering for your project. You
> will find a constellation of styles and
> ratings. It will be a rare switch or relay
> that is rated for less than TENS OF THOUSANDS
> of operations at rated load.
>
> Now, consider how heavily you are going to load
> this device . . . pushing the ratings? Probably
> not. So from an ELECTRICAL perspective, the
> service life of this devices will be some factor
> greater than rated. Then we consider mechanical
> service life . . . which logically exceeds the
> rated electrical service life.
>
> Now, how many operations are you going to put
> on this device every year? Based on your
> anticipated service demands, how many flight
> hours will you put on the switch before it's
> at risk for end of life? Trust me, it's a BIG
> number . . . so big in fact that and end of
> life failure is exceedingly tiny if not
> zero. You cannot wear out that device during
> your life experience with the airplane.
>
> Hmmmm . . . switches and relays get replaced
> all the time. Yup . . . and probably for
> reasons unrelated to actual operating cycles
> on the device. Okay, what's the reason
> for premature failure? It's probably a combination
> of serval things . . . most of which you'll
> have no control over.
>
> Hmmmm . . . what's a poor owner operator to do?
> Can't tell you without going through the kinds
> of failure analysis that dominated the last
> 10 years of my career in GA. The analysis
> was expensive, time consuming and seldom
> revealed a cheap and dirty resolution. Some
> failures were one-of events usually based
> on some fabrication error . . . it took
> 5-6 weeks of pushing one poor customer's
> airplane up the chain of time, talent
> and resources before I talked the pilots
> into letting me tape a 37 conductor ribbon
> cable to the fuselage and past gaskets in
> the baggage and passenger doors. With this
> rig I was able to watch a constellation
> of parameters in the tail while we climbed
> to 41000 feet . . . one more time . . . in
> search of the elusive failure.
>
> Found a crimp pin in a pressure bulkhead feed
> through that was not seated. The wire bundles
> had to get cold and shrink enough to pull the
> pin back and cause the failure to manifest.
>
> That 10-cent error cost tens of thousands
> to chase down.
>
> What's this have to do with switches on your
> panel? It's but one example of how root cause
> for a mis-behavior can run the range from
> observable broken wires, dripping water or
> hydraulic fluid, temperature cycles combined
> with ozone concentrations, . . . all the way
> up to failures that would only manifest
> at altitude after consuming about as much fuel
> in one flight as my wife's Saturn consumed in
> a year.
>
> Go back and look at the engineering data for
> the device. I've never seen a manufacturer
> recommend any form of periodic maintenance . . .
> much less squirt 'magic stuff' into the device's
> cracks with some notion of improving service
> life or, worse yet, 'refurbishing' a misbehaving
> switch.
>
> Back in the day, we had several cans of cleaners,
> lubes, sealers, etc. on the workbench where we
> repaired radio and television sets. It was always
> gratifying to drive the mischief out of a rotary
> switch, noisy volume control or arcing flyback
> transformer with a squirt of magic stuff.
>
> But we're talking about airplanes now. We're
> talking about devices that have obviously failed
> to meet service life predictions. Okay, now what?
> What forces in physics are responsible? Will
> 'magic stuff' mitigate those forces . . .
> probably not. Will they 'repair' the effects
> or simply squeeze a few more operations out of
> a device that is close to gross failure? Finally,
> how do you KNOW that you've squirted the magic
> stuff into the RIGHT location and that it
> doesn't present a new hazard to functionality
> if it gets into the WRONG location.
>
> Finally, how hard is it to replace a $5 switch that's
> held on the panel with one nut and wired with a
> couple or three fast-ons? I used to recommend
> that my seminar attendees take a sunny afternoon
> and $50 worth of switches and replace everything
> on the panel . . . just for the hell of it.
>
> System reliability benefits far more from
> preventative maintenance than it does from
> magic stuff applied to a device that's already
> begging for help.
>
> One more example. One day at Beech, a sales
> rep came out to pitch a particular kind of
> magic stuff. I think it was called "Stabilant 22."
>
> It was reputed, nay, demonstrated to improve the
> quality of metallic connection between pins and
> sockets in our harness connectors. So, we
> piled engineering data, test reports, user
> testimonials, etc. etc. against field service
> experience on a fleet of thousands of airplanes
> gathered over 50+ years.
>
> Yeah, Stabilant 22 was pretty whippy stuff . . .
> but expensive and labor intensive with a risk
> for waste due to spillage and getting it on
> the wrong surfaces. I could just see the faces
> of our line techs when we handed each one a bottle
> of magic stuff with a requirement to properly apply
> to each connector before it was mated up.
>
> Then, there was the question, what's the return
> on investment? After some consideration, we deduced
> that it was a 'fix' for a problem we didn't have.
>
> So there your have the long answer. If any combination
> of components on your airplane is crying out for
> help, then replace on condition is the
> lowest risk and probably the lowest cost approach
> to risk management. WD40 is good for the kid's
> tricycle that might sit out and get rained on
> from time to time.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magic stuff . . .
> From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
>
>
> Another side to the issue. WD-40 is essentially fish oil or a synthetic
> clone of fish oil. It dries up over time and leaves a very sticky mess,
> as well as attracting dirt.
> If you insist on lubricating connections, ACF-50 or Corrosion X or just
> contact cleaner are better alternatives.
> The only use I have found for WD-40 around an airplane that doesn't
> cause future problems is to use it as a belly cleaning solution.
>
> Kelly
>
> On 4/25/2018 6:38 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Bob! I shall continue with my present practice of carefully NOT
> spraying
> WD40 into every switch annually.
> >
>
> >> I lost track of which Bob was recommending annual WD-40 as a switch
> failure
> preventive prophylactic, and which Bob wasnt.
> >> Can someone advise?
> >
> > The short answer is "no".
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Degaussing
>
> Try a soldering gun (NOT a soldering iron).
> Remove the two screws that hold the heating
> element. Put the heating element around the
> rudder cable and reassemble the soldering gun.
> Turn on the soldering gun and slowly move it
> along the rudder cable, being careful not to
> burn yourself or anything else.
>
> I have never done this and have never heard
> about others doing it. But hey, it is worth a try.
>
>
> It works. I've used the soldering gun to
> demag small tools. There are several articles
> on the 'net for doing similar tasks.
>
> demagnitizer from old soldering gun.jpg
>
>
> Here the author made up a coil of longer
> wire (gives stronger field with less heating).
>
> One could take a piece of bare 12AWG copper
> and form it 4-5 turns around the target
> material before reconnecting to the soldering
> gun. I've measured the current in stock
> Weller tips at over 200 amps. So using
> the single-turn of a stock tip would
> give you 200+ ampere-turns of flux.
>
> Fabricated coils will be higher
> resistance but if you can get 150A
> through 5 turns, your degaussing flux
> rises to 750AT.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
> =2E . . any chance there is other electronics "back" there that are ope
rati
> onal, such as tail strobe and power supply causing interference with flux
..
> ??
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> -----
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 6:33 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
>
> Hello Shorty:
>
>
> Very Interesting!
> In the good old days it was very easy to make a Degaussing Coil (D-C),
ac
> tually the coil was already made for you and all you had to do was hook u
p
> 110 VAC.
> The Coil was the DEFLECTION COIL on the back of the old TV's... It is
th
> e large coil that slipped over the shank of the CRT... Cathode Ray Tube.
>
> All that a D-C is, is a very long length of a coil of wire. To the end
s
> of the coil you apply 110 VAC through a PUSH BUTTON switch. It continuou
sl
> y reverses the magnetic fields at the rate of 60 times per second (60 Hz)
.
> The coil is then slowly moved in ONE DIRECTION along the length of the i
te
> m you wish to demagnetize.
>
>
> OK, lets prove the cables are magnetized. I doubt it! Why? Because t
he
> cable are made of a low ferrous metal. The cables are advertised as Sta
in
> less Steel (S/S). True, not all S/S is non-magnetic.
> Start with a COMPASS - Move the compass along the length of the cables
an
> d of course the STEEL pivot points. The Compass will point directly to t
he
> magnetized item.
>
>
> Sounds like you are installing a G5 system?
>
>
> ALSO... Go back and watch your DG/HSI as you move the rudder peddles.
T
> he Heading should change as the peddles are moved. Move them slowly from
s
> top to stop. My SWAG is: If the Heading does NOT change - Don't worry a
bo
> ut it, you are good to go! The test procedure is way more sensitive/sele
ct
> ive than the Magnetometer and the DG/HSI.
> If the DG/HSI does move then YES - Use the D-C.
> Side Note: You can also do as ships do: Fly a course in direct Opposi
ti
> on to the magnetic fields of the earth. This is used to Degauss the ship
..
> =2E in your case the plane (ship). Look up Ship Degaussing procedures
- C
> heck out "The Chapman's Manual".
>
>
> Since there are very few old TV's which you can steal a coil from let's
m
> ove to your next options.
> 1 - Look for a place where you can purchase or rent a D-C. Look at the
o
> ld electronic shops.
> 2 - Obtain a ROLL of INSULATED wire - 24 to 34 AWG about 1,000 Ft. You
w
> ill have to have access to BOTH ends of the wire. Then all you have to d
o
> connect a 110 VAC line and a Push Button Switch to the ends. The go GAUS
S!
>
>
> Best of luck,
> Barry
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:44 AM, tshort wrote:
>
>
> The aft mounted magnetometer in my RV 10 has failed interference test
in
> g, only when the rudder moves.
>
> Garmin tells me I need to degauss the rudder cables.
>
> Anyone have suggestions on how to do so?
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing
>
> At 02:49 PM 4/25/2018, you wrote:
> >=EF=BB
> >. . . any chance there is other electronics
> >"back" there that are operational, such as tail
> >strobe and power supply causing interference with flux..??
>
> Excellent question. I am skeptical of the notion
> that control cables have become magnetized . . .
> and if they were, they would have to carry
> flux lines longitudinally . . . i.e. little
> to no discernable changes in magnetic field
> as the cables operate to affect rudder
> position.
>
> But if moving the rudder has an observable
> effect, then there has to be a foundation
> in physics for the observation.
>
> On the other hand, does it matter? If
> the magnetic compass feature is 'swung'
> with the rudder centered . . . what
> is the probability of introducing a
> critical error into the system's magnetic
> nav data with a large rudder excursion?
> Most autonomous attitude tracking involves
> very small excursions of flight controls.
> If rudder motion was a source of error, just
> how often and under what conditions would
> that error manifest?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Just as electricity takes the path of least resistance, so do magnetic lines of
force. Even if steel cables are not magnetized, the earth's magnetic field will
concentrate in the cables and follow them instead of going through the air.
There are driveway alarm sensors that detect a change in the earth's magnetic
field when a vehicle passes by.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479574#479574
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Double pole switch failure mode? |
| From: | "czechsix" <czechsix(at)msn.com> |
Thanks Jeff. If a second alternator was added to your diagram, I think the main
difference would be that you have a single main bus fed from each battery/alternator
via diodes whereas Z-14 has an additional switch to manually close the
Cross-Tie solenoid. That provides you with the 'automatic failover' you are
describing. The main drawback is you can't crank the engine from either battery...not
a safety issue, but most people sooner or later experience going to
the hangar, getting out the airplane, and then it won't crank. It's nice to be
able to use the second battery for cranking since you've got it installed anyway...
-Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479579#479579
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Double pole switch failure mode? |
| From: | "czechsix" <czechsix(at)msn.com> |
Thanks Jeff. If a second alternator was added to your diagram, I think the main
difference would be that you have a single main bus fed from each battery/alternator
via diodes whereas Z-14 has an additional switch to manually close the
Cross-Tie solenoid. That provides you with the 'automatic failover' you are
describing. The main drawback is you can't crank the engine from either battery...not
a safety issue, but most people sooner or later experience going to
the hangar, getting out the airplane, and then it won't crank. It's nice to be
able to use the second battery for cranking since you've got it installed anyway...
-Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479580#479580
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Double pole switch failure mode? |
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Double pole switch failure mode?
From: "czechsix" <czechsix(at)msn.com>
Bob,
I'm interested in Z-14 for my RV-14A, not my RV-8A. I was just
pointing out that back when I built my RV-8A I don't think the wiring
diagrams were available in an editable format, so I used ink and
whiteout. The -8A had single alternator and one PC680 main battery
plus a small backup battery dedicated to one of the elec ignition
systems. I only flew it VFR.
Understand. Sorry 'bout that. Too many irons in
the fire . . .
On the RV-14A, it will be full IFR cross country cruiser with all
glass panel and I'm planning to use SDS electronic fuel injection and
elec ignition. That's a lot of stuff riding on the electrical
system, especially given that you need to have the high pressure elec
fuel pump running at all times (no engine driven pump with EFI).
Dual pumps?
. . . Therefore I plan to use the 20-40A B&C 410-H as my second
alternator on the vac pad (it isn't much different cost-wise from the
SD-8, main downside is a couple more pounds).
Agreed.
Then there's the question of single vs dual batteries. I would like
to take advantage of the weight savings of the EarthX battery, but I
don't yet trust it 100%...obviously anything can fail (including a
PC680), but EarthX has a lot of built-in smarts that I don't fully
understand and among other things it can completely shut itself off
if it isn't happy. With one battery, the importance of good
maintenance goes up and replacement intervals get shorter (at least
my philosophy is to replace a single battery every 3 years even if it
is performing well). Furthermore with a single battery, the avionics
and ECU/ignition system may reboot while cranking.
I think the EarthX products have paid their dues
in the marketplace. The electronics are modeled
after the Battery Management Systems in the PMA/
STC products from True Blue. I was reasonably
aware of the development of that product, even
got to witness some of the catastrophic failure
testing during my last tenure in TC aviation at
Textron.
The only time these batteries 'get unhappy'
is discharge below some lower threshold which
is to prevent battery destruction . . . it's
value below that which represents less than
5% state of charge . . . i..e pooped.
It also shuts down for high current drain
numbers that pose risk for battery destruction
but comfortably greater than cranking currents
expected on your airplane.
I would have no heartburn flying an EarthX . . . not
so much for lithium products with lesser battery
management systems.
Adding a second battery addresses these concerns. The TCW backup
battery could be a solution for the second battery, but it costs more
than an EarthX battery and has more limited capacity.
So I'm thinking I'll use two EarthX batteries, so it's break
even with respect to weight.
Agreed. The aux battery could be smaller since
its critical duties are limited to mitigation
of brownout-reset issues.
So...that leads me to Z-14. It addresses all my requirements and
concerns in a way that Z-13/8 does not. The main thing I'm trying to
decide with Z-14 is where to connect all the engine related
stuff. Most of the parts are dual redundant (ECUs, ignition coils,
pumps) so I could split those up between the two respective battery
buses. The one part that is not redundant is the injectors. So I
was thinking about running the power for the injectors off a bus that
is fed via diodes from each battery.
I don't see any value in diode isolated
dual feeders . . . the main bus already
has feeders from 4 energy sources. A few
years back, one of my builders split the
injector supplies such that each injector
had its own fuse. This offered fault isolation
that prevents a single fault from taking all
the injectors off line. His engine would
produce power to sustain flight while missing
the fuel flow of on injector.
I think you're on the right track. Sorry
for the light participation in this thread.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
DUH!
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 07:29 AM 4/26/2018, you wrote:
>
> I tried most of the suggestions listed but finally had to move the
> magnetometer as high as I could from the rudder cables. Right behind the
> baggage compartment was great. I have never had a compass as accurate. You
> can also change the cables to a good grade of Stainless ( non magnetic )
> Steel.
>
> Keep your cables far away from a DC welding machine while building.
>
>
> Upon further pondering of your observations
> and success, I'm now thinking that the cables
> were probably not magnetized. If they are
> MAGNETIC . . . meaning that they are attracted
> to a magnet . . . then they are capable of
> DISTORTING an external magnetic field (earth
> flux) without being magnetized.
>
> This condition seems more likely . . .
>
> Mounting earth flux sensors of any strip
> on or within vehicles has been fraught with
> challenges. Most of our experience with
> aluminum and plastic airplanes has been pretty
> benign but there are occasional exceptions.
> Had a guy on the List a few years back that
> had a badly magnetized fuselage frame for
> a rag-n-tube airplane.
>
> From what you've shared here, it's almost
> a certainty that degaussing the cables would
> have not been useful. Further, the problem
> you observed and worked around was a simple
> distortion due to proximity.
>
> Thanks for sharing!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
>Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 22:49:22 -0400
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magnetomer
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>X-Keywords:
>
>
>DUH!
And this advances the conversation how?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Finally thinking about getting the mess-making
shop air-conditioned. I've been cruising the
offerings of this firm . . .
https://goo.gl/vLLnmB
My son and brother-in-law have used these
guys with satisfaction. I'm probably going
to get a 24KBTU, 14SEER condenser and coil
box for well under $1000 delivered to my
door here in the hinterlands.
Thought I'd turn the DIY HVAC guys onto
this resource. If you have a space that could
use some comfort enhancement, you may find
an attractive approach to the task on these
pages . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tshort" <tmshort(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for all the replies.
I am virtually certain it is the cables:
- the test passes on all other parameters (turning off / on all the equipment in
the tailcone, etc etc). The test shows significant error as soon as I move
the rudder at all.
- I downloaded an app for the phone (per the suggestion above), and it does detect
magnetic fields near the cables.
Since we had already reassembled things and had the bag wall back in, I used the
solder iron technique on the cable ends and cable outside of the tailcone.
Measurements before and after with the phone app did show less detected.
Finally, I calibrated the magnetometer as per Garmin's instructions. With ground
testing and test flying yesterday, I saw zero movement of the indicator with
any rudder input.
Since I am flying VFR only, I am going to continue to monitor / test fly, and next
time I have occasion to get back in the tailcone I may make some additional
efforts at degaussing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479589#479589
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tshort" <tmshort(at)gmail.com> |
Funny ... I clicked on the link, and it happens to be in the town where I grew
up! Interesting coincidence, we just installed a new furnace / air handler in
a rental property in Lebanon, and the installer got the equipment there. I could
not believe how cheap it was, and it works great. Another thumbs up for
them.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479590#479590
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Paulk <bobbypaulk(at)comcast.net> |
Bob,
I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and on the bottom
skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I moved it I could pull the
plane out away from the hangar and sitting still move the rudder from stop
to stop and get over 200 degrees swing on the compass. Reverse and the compass
would swing the opposite way. It did not matter if the engine was running or
not. We spent several hours trying to degauss the cables. We used a degauss coil
for older TV's, a solder gun, and even wrapped our own version of a coil.
As far as we cold tell nothing we did had much ( if any ) impact on the amplitude
of the compass error. I have swung the compass several times since relocating
the magnetometer and it is very accurate.
Bobby
Zodiac 601 295 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magnetometer |
At 07:23 AM 4/27/2018, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and
>on the bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I
>moved it I could pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting
>still move the rudder from stop to stop and get over 200 degrees
>swing on the compass. Reverse and the compass would swing the
>opposite way. It did not matter if the engine was running or not. We
>spent several hours trying to degauss the cables. We used a degauss
>coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even wrapped our own version
>of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did had much ( if any
>) impact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have swung the
>compass several times since relocating the magnetometer and it is
>very accurate.
Great news and excellent data. Thank you. Your
observations confirm the latest hypothesis for
dimple distortion of earth flux by the cables
as opposed to magnetized cables.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
On Z-13/8 given that there is already a 5A breaker in the wire from the
main bus to the master switch, what is the purpose of the 22AWG fusible
link in that same wire?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> On Z-13/8 given that there is already a 5A breaker in the wire from the
> main bus to the master switch, what is the purpose of the 22AWG fusible
> link in that same wire?
>
The breaker the reset-able option (nuisance trips) for the OV protection
circuit. It is remote from the bus ('unlimited' current source) to allow
access by the pilot. Without the fusible link, the 18 ga wire would be
unprotected between the bus and the breaker.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
Okay, that makes sense. But it spurs other questions, like why is the 18
gauge there at all, when the rest of the run is 20 gauge?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Charlie England
wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>
>> On Z-13/8 given that there is already a 5A breaker in the wire from the
>> main bus to the master switch, what is the purpose of the 22AWG fusible
>> link in that same wire?
>>
> The breaker the reset-able option (nuisance trips) for the OV protection
> circuit. It is remote from the bus ('unlimited' current source) to allow
> access by the pilot. Without the fusible link, the 18 ga wire would be
> unprotected between the bus and the breaker.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Good catch. I think there is a typo in the drawing. The wire size should be 18
AWG between the 5 amp circuit breaker and the master switch. That wire will
carry over-voltage module current when the module shorts to ground. 20 AWG is
OK between the master switch and the voltage regulator.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479607#479607
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magnetometer |
Your dimple distortion is officially called a =9Csoft iron=9D er
ror.
On Apr 27, 2018, at 09:21, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectri
c.com> wrote:
At 07:23 AM 4/27/2018, you wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and on th
e bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I moved it I could
pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting still move the rudder f
rom stop to stop and get over 200 degrees swing on the compass. Reverse and t
he compass would swing the opposite way. It did not matter if the engine was
running or not. We spent several hours trying to degauss the cables. We use
d a degauss coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even wrapped our own vers
ion of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did had much ( if any ) im
pact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have swung the compass several
times since relocating the magnetometer and it is very accurate.
Great news and excellent data. Thank you. Your
observations confirm the latest hypothesis for
dimple distortion of earth flux by the cables
as opposed to magnetized cables.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 4/27/2018 2:15 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Good catch. I think there is a typo in the drawing. The wire size should be
18 AWG between the 5 amp circuit breaker and the master switch. That wire will
carry over-voltage module current when the module shorts to ground. 20 AWG
is OK between the master switch and the voltage regulator.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
Well...the 20 awg is protected by the CB. Current will likely never get
above 3 amps in normal operation, and in an OV event, the overcurrent
duration from the crowbar firing would be measured in milliseconds. I
wouldn't be worried about a 5A CB protecting a 20 awg wire; I think I
probably have some short runs of 20 that are fused with 5A.
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I was wrong in my post above. The fuselink protects the 18 AWG from shorting out.
The circuit breaker protects everything down steam from there.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479613#479613
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
So, is the reason for the 18AWG section perhaps to set the size of the
fuselink at 22AWG?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:11 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> I was wrong in my post above. The fuselink protects the 18 AWG from
> shorting out. The circuit breaker protects everything down steam from
> there.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479613#479613
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The rule of thumb for a fuselink is 4 wire sizes smaller than the protected conductor.
So I agree with you.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magnetometer |
=8BBobby:
When you degaussed the rudder cable... Did you degaussed the rudder Horn?
The cables even being S/S will have some ferrous in them. However the HORN
is all ferrous steel and so is the vertical rudder bracket.
BUT! I would get the magnetometer off the belly and away from the cables
and I'm guessing you have your Altitude Hold A/P back there also. It
probably has a large PM motor.
Are you installing a Garmin G5 system?
Barry
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Bobby Paulk wrote
:
> Bob,
>
> I originally mounted my Magnetometer as far back in the fuselage and on
> the bottom skin ( right between the rudder cables ). Before I moved it I
> could pull the plane out away from the hangar and sitting still move the
> rudder from stop to stop and get over 200 degrees swing on the compass.
> Reverse and the compass would swing the opposite way. It did not matter i
f
> the engine was running or not. We spent several hours trying to degauss t
he
> cables. We used a degauss coil for older TV's, a solder gun, and even
> wrapped our own version of a coil. As far as we cold tell nothing we did
> had much ( if any ) impact on the amplitude of the compass error. I have
> swung the compass several times since relocating the magnetometer and it
is
> very accurate.
>
>
> Bobby
>
> Zodiac 601 295 hrs.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Shorty:
A COMPASS will literary Point at the problem.
And, if the magnesium is very high you should be able to do it from the
outside of the plane. The aluminum will offer very little shielding.
Barry
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 6:28 AM, tshort wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the replies.
>
> I am virtually certain it is the cables:
>
> - the test passes on all other parameters (turning off / on all the
> equipment in the tailcone, etc etc). The test shows significant error as
> soon as I move the rudder at all.
>
> - I downloaded an app for the phone (per the suggestion above), and it
> does detect magnetic fields near the cables.
>
> Since we had already reassembled things and had the bag wall back in, I
> used the solder iron technique on the cable ends and cable outside of the
> tailcone. Measurements before and after with the phone app did show less
> detected.
>
> Finally, I calibrated the magnetometer as per Garmin's instructions. With
> ground testing and test flying yesterday, I saw zero movement of the
> indicator with any rudder input.
>
> Since I am flying VFR only, I am going to continue to monitor / test fly,
> and next time I have occasion to get back in the tailcone I may make some
> additional efforts at degaussing.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479589#479589
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
And what would be the argument against all 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:16 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> The rule of thumb for a fuselink is 4 wire sizes smaller than the
> protected conductor. So I agree with you.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
For me, it would be availability (I don't keep 24 awg on hand) and
physical strength of the link. 22 is pretty tough; 24 is marginal.
No doubt it will work, though, if you want to use it.
Charlie
On 4/27/2018 9:48 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> And what would be the argument against all 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink?
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:16 PM, user9253 > wrote:
>
> >
>
> The rule of thumb for a fuselink is 4 wire sizes smaller than the
> protected conductor. So I agree with you.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479616#479616>
>
>
> ===================================
> -
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Paulk <bobbypaulk(at)comcast.net> |
Barry
My rudder and elevator parts are all aluminum - no iron or steel. Also I do not
have auto pilot, strobes or any electronic whizzes mounted back there. I really
think someone ( not me ) stored the cables on the DC welding machine while
it was being used causing them to become highly magnetized.
As an aside I had to change most of our Air National Guard rudder cables on the
F-106 way back when. The old cables would become magnetized by the electronics
mounted near them. The full timers would save the dirty or labor intense jobs
for the part timers ( me ). We had to replace the cables with a finer stainless
alloy that would not become magnetized. I think the cables were about 3/8"
in diameter and the airplane was very long. Not an easy job.
Bobby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
At 11:48 PM 4/27/2018, you wrote:
>For me, it would be availability (I don't keep 24 awg on hand) and
>physical strength of the link. 22 is pretty tough; 24 is marginal.
>
>No doubt it will work, though, if you want to use it.
This bigger-but-not-fat wire is a 'bus feeder'
to a distribution point of one. You could
use 18/22 or even put a maxifuse of, say
30-40A at the fuse-link location.
The fuse link seems a bit more 'elegant'
tied into the wire bundles as opposed to
sticking out like a sore thumb.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
At 11:48 PM 4/27/2018, you wrote:
>For me, it would be availability (I don't keep 24 awg on hand) and
>physical strength of the link. 22 is pretty tough; 24 is marginal.
>
>No doubt it will work, though, if you want to use it.
This bigger-but-not-fat wire is a 'bus feeder'
to a distribution point of one. You could
use 18/22 or even put a maxifuse of, say
30-40A at the fuse-link location.
The fuse link seems a bit more 'elegant'
tied into the wire bundles as opposed to
sticking out like a sore thumb.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
Folks,
I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC
connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light
wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the
aviation aisle of Home Depot.
Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in
cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see
similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to
cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a
parking lot)?
This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
My Cessna has lots of (as far as I know) original PVC insulated crimps.
> On Apr 28, 2018, at 10:36, Art Zemon wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PV
C connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light w
ires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation
aisle of Home Depot.
>
> Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors i
n cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see si
milar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold
but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lo
t)?
>
> This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
Good timing Art!
In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler
specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says
both are acceptable.
http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpob
E9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2ps
YU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ
3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9
My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylon
whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are
still problem free.
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use
> PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing
> light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in th
e
> aviation aisle of Home Depot.
>
> Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors
> in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I se
e
> similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to
> cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a
> parking lot)?
>
> This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
My understanding is that the nylon is good in the engine compartment...the
PVC not so much
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 4:52 PM Alec Myers wrote:
> My Cessna has lots of (as far as I know) original PVC insulated crimps.
>
> On Apr 28, 2018, at 10:36, Art Zemon wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use
> PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing
> light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the
> aviation aisle of Home Depot.
>
> Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors
> in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see
> similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to
> cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a
> parking lot)?
>
> This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
Bob, I don't follow your language "this bigger but not fat wire is a 'bus
feeder' to a distribution point of one." Specifically, why use the 18/22
when the rest of the run is 20. Why not just use 20/24?
Ken
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:37 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:48 PM 4/27/2018, you wrote:
>
> For me, it would be availability (I don't keep 24 awg on hand) and
> physical strength of the link. 22 is pretty tough; 24 is marginal.
>
> No doubt it will work, though, if you want to use it.
>
>
> This bigger-but-not-fat wire is a 'bus feeder'
> to a distribution point of one. You could
> use 18/22 or even put a maxifuse of, say
> 30-40A at the fuse-link location.
>
> The fuse link seems a bit more 'elegant'
> tied into the wire bundles as opposed to
> sticking out like a sore thumb.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Springer <ron228rj(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I
have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt
connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.
Ron
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 10:42 AM Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use
> PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing
> light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the
> aviation aisle of Home Depot.
>
> Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors
> in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see
> similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to
> cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a
> parking lot)?
>
> This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
>
>
>On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon
><art(at)zemon.name> wrote:
>Folks,
>
>I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I
>am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an
>airplane but... I need connectors for the
>landing light wires, out in the wings. I can
>grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.=C2
>
>Help me figure this out, please. There are a
>whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on
>the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't
>I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably
>more since it will be exposed to cold but not as
>much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?
>
>This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
I would invite the readers to review this article I
posted a few years back that reviews the legacy
design goals and properties of materials for what
was then, a "mil spec'd" style of solderless wire
termination:
https://goo.gl/Fq95MU
Major features in the PIDG style connectors are
the terminal body (part that grips strands of wire),
insulator (provides some protection of the assembly
and helps identify the terminal by its color) and
a thin, metallic sleeve inside the insulator that
is formed down against the termnial barrel -AND-
insulation of the mated wire to provide insulation
support for resistance to breakage under vibration.
Here's the TE_Connectivity/AMP drawing for a PIDG
https://goo.gl/66QGz4
here's the same size terminal in Plasti-Grip
https://goo.gl/ZQaKRV
Without insulation support, the strands are at-risk
for vibration fatigue and separation. Here'a
an interesting work-around.
Emacs!
This Electronic Ignition, dual feed, diode isolated
distribution bus has multiple connections just waiting
to fail.
Emacs!
This view shows four, plasti-grip terminals
that were either (1) improperly applied or
(2) had already regained their as-manufactured
shape due to temperature cycling. This was
a 'hands off' inspection of the wreckage
so I was unable examine more closely.
Emacs!
Here's an example of lapses in craftsmanship for a breaker/bus-bar
assembly salvaged from a vintage Piper. We cannot know the time-in-
service for the variety of terminations seen here, but the PIDG
terminals demonstrate a decided advantage over the Plasti-Grip.
Emacs!
At 09:54 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Good timing Art!
In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA
newsletter, Dick Koehler specifically mentions
that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both are acceptable.
<http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpob
E9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psY
U9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3Z
XEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9>http://www.eaavideo.org/deta
il/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpobE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeG
VMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRW
NzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUT
V6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9
My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors.
I replace them with nylon whenever I install or
repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are still problem free.
I was unable to get the video to load. I would really
like to see the document on FAA paper that suggests
interchangeability for the PIDG vs Plasti-Grip.
I would be surprised that any movement across technologies
recommended/mandated by the FAA would translate 'downward'.
Butt splices in runs of wire tied to wire bundles can
be spliced with much less expense (and physical bulk
to the bundle) with this technique:
https://goo.gl/FMCY9K
Having offered all the above, I will close with the
notion that a Plasti-Grip splice tied into a wire
bundle is at VERY LOW RISK for lost of conductors
due to vibration because of the support offered by
OTHER wires in the bundle. But be wary of non-PIDG
terminations for wires taken to studs and tabe.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
At 11:01 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors,
>which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them
>for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.
Nylon vs. PVC is not the magic difference . . . do the
any of their offerings feature metallic insulation grips
under the plastic?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
Here too. Thanks for saying something. I'm all set now.
-- Art Z.
Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 11:17 AM Ron Springer wrote:
> My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I
> have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt
> connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.
>
> Ron
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 10:42 AM Art Zemon wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use
>> PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing
>> light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the
>> aviation aisle of Home Depot.
>>
>> Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors
>> in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see
>> similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to
>> cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a
>> parking lot)?
>>
>> This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
>>
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
>> what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Springer <ron228rj(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
Nope!
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 12:57 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:01 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>
> My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I
> have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt
> connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.
>
>
> Nylon vs. PVC is not the magic difference . . . do the
> any of their offerings feature metallic insulation grips
> under the plastic?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
At 10:24 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>Bob, I don't follow your language "this bigger but not fat wire is a
>'bus feeder' to a distribution point of one." Specifically, why use
>the 18/22 when the rest of the run is 20. Why not just use 20/24?
Forgive me. "FAT wires" refers to feeders that
carry major battery/starter currents and generally
require no fault protection. If one is using
a fuse block as opposed to breaker panel, then
we would like to have the crowbar ov protection
breaker crew accessible. This requires runing an
extension of the power distribution on something
less than a fat-wire to the single breaker on the
panel.
As a practical matter, one could make that total
run from the fuse block to regulator with 20AWG
wire and no other consideration bit it fusible
link or other CPD (circuit protective device).
The fusible link suggestion simply honored the
legacy rule-of-thumb allowing small, short wires
to attach unprotected to a fat-wire fed bus. The
notion was that a hard fault on such wires would
terminate quickly and not generate much smoke.
We're sifting the really fine sands of risk here.
99.99% of all circuit breakers/fuses installed
on all manner of vehicle goes to the salvage yard
never being called upon to do its job to protect
vehicle and occupants from smoke/fire.
If we were boarding your airplane for a $100 hamburger
trip and you confessed to me that the feeder to the
crowbar ov breaker was 'unprotected' . . . my response
is most likely to be, "Where are we going? Ponca City
or Hutch?"
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
At 12:04 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>Nope!
Well then . . . there you go . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because
over the years I=99ve seen several failures on my work as well as
that of others. My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink
insulation. I=99ve been using them for about 5 years now without
any failures on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft.
The insulation once shrunk provides support for the wire and besides
insulation seals against moisture getting into the crimp. They=99re
available at Polar Wire in Anchorage, AK and probably many other
places.
Bernie
> On Apr 28, 2018, at 6:54 AM, Sebastien wrote:
>
> Good timing Art!
>
> In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick
Koehler specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the
FAA says both are acceptable.
>
>
http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpo
bE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2
psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJa
NWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9
<http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWp
obE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd
2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJ
aNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9>
>
> My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with
nylon whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC
ones are still problem free.
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon > wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to
use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the
landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt
connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.
>
> Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC
connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more.
Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it
will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking
in the sun in a parking lot)?
>
> This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself,
what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
Thanks Bob. That clears some things up for me. You have not commented on
using 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink. I'm sure at some point the mechanical
properties of the wire become an issue. Is 24AWG too small to be messing
with for a fuselink?
Ken
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 9:07 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:24 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>
> Bob, I don't follow your language "this bigger but not fat wire is a 'bus
> feeder' to a distribution point of one." Specifically, why use the 18/22
> when the rest of the run is 20. Why not just use 20/24?
>
>
> Forgive me. "FAT wires" refers to feeders that
> carry major battery/starter currents and generally
> require no fault protection. If one is using
> a fuse block as opposed to breaker panel, then
> we would like to have the crowbar ov protection
> breaker crew accessible. This requires runing an
> extension of the power distribution on something
> less than a fat-wire to the single breaker on the
> panel.
>
> As a practical matter, one could make that total
> run from the fuse block to regulator with 20AWG
> wire and no other consideration bit it fusible
> link or other CPD (circuit protective device).
>
> The fusible link suggestion simply honored the
> legacy rule-of-thumb allowing small, short wires
> to attach unprotected to a fat-wire fed bus. The
> notion was that a hard fault on such wires would
> terminate quickly and not generate much smoke.
>
> We're sifting the really fine sands of risk here.
> 99.99% of all circuit breakers/fuses installed
> on all manner of vehicle goes to the salvage yard
> never being called upon to do its job to protect
> vehicle and occupants from smoke/fire.
>
> If we were boarding your airplane for a $100 hamburger
> trip and you confessed to me that the feeder to the
> crowbar ov breaker was 'unprotected' . . . my response
> is most likely to be, "Where are we going? Ponca City
> or Hutch?"
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
Bob,
That second picture looks like the crimps were improperly applied, with no i
nsulation crimp at all. Even the most highbrow PIDG terminal won=99t h
elp if you don=99t put it on properly.
On Apr 28, 2018, at 13:22, Bernie Willis wrote:
This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over th
e years I=99ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of oth
ers. My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation. I
=99ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all k
inds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk p
rovides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture g
etting into the crimp. They=99re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage
, AK and probably many other places.
Bernie
> On Apr 28, 2018, at 6:54 AM, Sebastien wrote:
>
> Good timing Art!
>
> In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler s
pecifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both
are acceptable.
>
> http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpo
bE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2ps
YU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3
ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9
>
> My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylo
n whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are s
till problem free.
>
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use P
VC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light w
ires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation
aisle of Home Depot.
>>
>> Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors i
n cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see si
milar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold
but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lo
t)?
>>
>> This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
>>
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
At 12:37 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>That second picture looks like the crimps were
>improperly applied, with no insulation crimp at
>all. Even the most highbrow PIDG terminal
>won=99t help if you don=99t put it on properly.
You may be correct . . . on both counts. I didn't
have the time or charter to investigate this airplane's
condition in all respects. I was to focus
on the chain of events that killed the engine.
Anecdotal observations of lapses in craftsmanship
were numerous.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
At 12:26 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>Thanks Bob. That clears some things up for me. You have not
>commented on using 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink. I'm sure at some
>point the mechanical properties of the wire become an issue. Is
>24AWG too small to be messing with for a fuselink?
Actually, no . . .
We used a lot of 24AWG in the airframe wiring
on Premier . . . lots of grumbling at the outset
but I think if proved to be pretty much a non
issue. When crimping 24AWG into the red pidg
terminals, I do double the strip length and
fold the strands back to double the copper
in the crimp . . . and i'm not sure that
offers demonstrable benefit.
Play around with it on the bench and see
what YOU think . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
At 12:22 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>This electrical connection subject is very
>interesting to me because over the years I=99ve
>seen several failures on my work as well as that
>of others. My son got me onto crimp connectors
>with heat shrink insulation. I=99ve been using
>them for about 5 years now without any failures
>on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and
>aircraft. The insulation once shrunk provides
>support for the wire and besides insulation
>seals against moisture getting into the
>crimp. They=99re available at Polar Wire in
>Anchorage, AK and probably many other places.
Yes, the heat-shrink, pre-insulated butt
splices are a special breed of cat. I've
messed with 'em here and been impressed
of their value . . . with reservations.
Emacs!
None of my rachet-handled tools produced
adequate crimps on 22AWG wire for a RED
splice. Doubling the stranding back helps
a lot. I ultimately settled on my legacy,
hardware-store crimp too . . . put as much
'mash' on it as you can with your bare
hands.
Play with them a bit . . . do a pull test
on a sample installation. You should find
it difficult to part the splice with your
bare hands . . . and it's always good if
the wire 'breaks' as opposed to "pulls out"
at the grip.
Of course you only crimp the wire-grip. The
plastic jacket will look pretty beat up after
the crimps . . . but smooth nicely at the time
of shrinking . . . as see above.
The jacket become quite rigid . . . and the
products I tested also featured dual wall
shrink . . . in internal layer of melting
sealant.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:52 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:01 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>
> My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which
I
> have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt
> connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.
>
>
> Nylon vs. PVC is not the magic difference . . . do the
> any of their offerings feature metallic insulation grips
> under the plastic?
>
=8B=8B
=8BBob,
The Tyco connectors that I found have a metal sleeve, an adhesive layer,
and a plastic insulating layer. Crimp then heat to melt the adhesive and
shrink the insulation. The size is just right for the pigtails on my
landing lights and the wires in the harnesses that i built for the wings
=8B.
I think that these connectors will be a good solution for this particular
application.
=8B
Cheers,
-- Art Z.=8B
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
There is a smaller size of insulated crimp than the red ones, they=99r
e yellow, and for 22-26 gauge wire. I=99ve never seen them in the fles
h, and tooling appears to be scarce and pensive, but I believe they exist.
Then there are the =9Cenvironmental butt splices=9D with the uni
nsulste copper core and the slide over heat-shrink sleeves, from $Raychem$.
On Apr 28, 2018, at 16:33, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectri
c.com> wrote:
At 12:22 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
> This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over t
he years I=99ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of ot
hers. My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation. I
=99ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all k
inds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk p
rovides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture g
etting into the crimp. They=99re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage
, AK and probably many other places.
Yes, the heat-shrink, pre-insulated butt
splices are a special breed of cat. I've
messed with 'em here and been impressed
of their value . . . with reservations.
None of my rachet-handled tools produced
adequate crimps on 22AWG wire for a RED
splice. Doubling the stranding back helps
a lot. I ultimately settled on my legacy,
hardware-store crimp too . . . put as much
'mash' on it as you can with your bare
hands.
Play with them a bit . . . do a pull test
on a sample installation. You should find
it difficult to part the splice with your
bare hands . . . and it's always good if
the wire 'breaks' as opposed to "pulls out"
at the grip.
Of course you only crimp the wire-grip. The
plastic jacket will look pretty beat up after
the crimps . . . but smooth nicely at the time
of shrinking . . . as see above.
The jacket become quite rigid . . . and the
products I tested also featured dual wall
shrink . . . in internal layer of melting
sealant.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
Hi Art:
The reason why PVC is not used - - - supposedly not used, . . . Goes back
to PVC jacketed wire.
You are not supposed to use PVC jacketed wire either, in planes.
I almost said that PVC is NEVER used in aircraft but, I have seen crazy
things done like a PRT!
Not that a PRT is crazy just that they used PVC.
So, the reason why NOT is: Very Caustic Fumes are produced when the PVC
Burns.
The answer to that is: Don't crash!
Barry
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use
> PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing
> light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the
> aviation aisle of Home Depot.
>
> Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors
> in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see
> similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to
> cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a
> parking lot)?
>
> This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Barry,
A randomly selected list for your perusal:
http://www.nationalwire.com/pdf/cat01_elect_hookup_wire.pdf
On the subject of Very Caustic Fumes: Close yourself up in a closet &
burn some Tefzel insulation. Report back (if able).
Charlie
;-)
On 4/28/2018 7:06 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Hi Art:
>
> The reason why PVC is not used - - - supposedly not used, . . . Goes
> back to PVC jacketed wire.
> You are not supposed to use PVC jacketed wire either, in planes.
> I almost said that PVC is NEVER used in aircraft but, I have seen
> crazy things done like a PRT!
> Not that a PRT is crazy just that they used PVC.
> So, the reason why NOT is: Very Caustic Fumes are produced when the
> PVC Burns.
>
> The answer to that is: Don't crash!
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Art Zemon > wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed
> to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for
> the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC
> butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.
>
> Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC
> connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe
> more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably
> more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a
> car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?
>
> This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for
> myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Bobby:
Even the Rudder Horns on your RV10 are aluminum? I has been a while since
I worked on an RV 6, but I think I recall their horns to be steel??? I was
thinking the RV 10 would have a similar design.
Barry
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Bobby Paulk wrote:
> Barry
>
> My rudder and elevator parts are all aluminum - no iron or steel. Also I
> do not have auto pilot, strobes or any electronic whizzes mounted back
> there. I really think someone ( not me ) stored the cables on the DC
> welding machine while it was being used causing them to become highly
> magnetized.
>
> As an aside I had to change most of our Air National Guard rudder cables
> on the F-106 way back when. The old cables would become magnetized by the
> electronics mounted near them. The full timers would save the dirty or
> labor intense jobs for the part timers ( me ). We had to replace the cables
> with a finer stainless alloy that would not become magnetized. I think the
> cables were about 3/8" in diameter and the airplane was very long. Not an
> easy job.
>
>
> Bobby
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
At 04:55 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>There is a smaller size of insulated crimp than
>the red ones, they=99re yellow, and for 22-26
>gauge wire. I=99ve never seen them in the flesh,
>and tooling appears to be scarce and pensive, but I believe they exist.
Yes they do, here's one example.
https://goo.gl/bEKHco
Even have a t-head tool that I'd make someone
a really good deal on. Needed it for one
task about 15 years ago.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
The reason why PVC is not used - - - supposedly not used, . . . Goes
back to PVC jacketed wire.
You are not supposed to use PVC jacketed wire either, in planes. I
almost said that PVC
is NEVER used in aircraft but, I have seen crazy things done like a
PRT! Not that a PRT
is crazy just that they used PVC. So, the reason why NOT is: Very
Caustic Fumes are
produced when the PVC Burns.
All the times I worked in Cessna factories (62-
69) the single and twin lines were wired with
Mil-W-16878 type BN wire. Nylon jacket over PVC.
The wire is still made and can be used to repair
said airplanes as it is the same material as called
out on the airplane's type certificate.
This was the first step up from varnish over cotton
over rubber that wired the first electrical systems
in the C140, C170, et. als. The spec number escapes
me at the moment but that wire too is still made
and can be used to repair an airplane that calls
it out on the drawings.
Tefzel (and some close cousins like Raychem's Spec
55) were just starting to be pitched in Wichita
about 1982 . . . I recall discussions at Lear concerning
upgrading to these new, higher temperature, more
chemically resistant insulations. The 22759 wire
was export controlled so we were leaning toward
Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license
and Teflon became the insulation of choice.
I don't know where that PVC toxicity meme originated.
I don't recall discussing it at Lear . . . the big
whoop for Tefzel was the wider operating temperature
range and lighter weight. To be sure, Tefzel smoke
is not from Marlboro Country! Our major concern from
the airframe perspective was flame characteristics.
Would it self extinguish and was it free of tendencies
to drop flaming balls of molten plastic.
Tefzel was really good in that regard, PVC not
so much . . . Nonetheless, nylon over PVC was the
wire of choice in tens of thousands of Wichita
airframes and I suspect as many more elsewhere.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
At 08:05 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>Barry,
>
>A randomly selected list for your perusal:
><http://www.nationalwire.com/pdf/cat01_elect_hookup_wire.pdf>http://www.nationalwire.com/pdf/cat01_elect_hookup_wire.pdf
>
>On the subject of Very Caustic Fumes: Close yourself up in a closet
>& burn some Tefzel insulation. Report back (if able).
Emacs!
Yup, that's the stuff!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Evolution of Wire (Correction) |
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 22759 wire
> was export controlled so we were leaning toward
> Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license
> and Teflon became the insulation of choice.
Correction. TEFZEL. We looked at Teflon
but not very hard. Excellent temperature ratings
but very expensive. Teflon extruded onto
the strands at such high temperatures that
you had to have silver plated strands.
Further, Teflon was softer and would cold-flow
under the pressure a too tight a cable tie.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hans_J=F6rg_Frei?= <hjfrei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
Hallo Robert
I get every day about 10-20 e-mails from the aeroelectric list and I dont w
ant that.
how can I remove my e-mail address from this list?
Best regards
Hansj=F6rg
________________________________
Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com im Auftrag von Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Gesendet: Sonntag, 29. April 2018 06:15
An: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: Re: AeroElectric-List: PVC vs Nylon Connectors
At 08:05 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Barry,
A randomly selected list for your perusal:
http://www.nationalwire.com/pdf/cat01_elect_hookup_wire.pdf
MIL SPECIFICATION HOOK UP WIRE<http://www.nationalwire.com/pdf/cat01_elect_
hookup_wire.pdf>
www.nationalwire.com
mil specification hook up wire table of contents type description temp. ran
ge voltage page mil-dtl-16878/1 32-14 awg t.p.c. pvc insulated -54c to +105
c 600v 1-1
On the subject of Very Caustic Fumes: Close yourself up in a closet & burn
some Tefzel insulation. Report back (if able).
[Emacs!]
Yup, that's the stuff!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | connector suggestion sought |
Someone on the list may have the right answer to this...
my instrument panels have a plastic overlay with built in electrostatic instrument
lighting. Each overlay has two power wires for the lights, that pass through
small holes in the aluminum instrument panel.
Im looking for a suggestion for a connector I can use for the power wires that
can be connected and disconnected on the outside of the aluminum panel (behind
the overlay) then fed through the small hole in the panel so the overlay sits
flush. A two pin molex .062 connector is slightly too big.
Any thoughts?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent or Jackie Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: connector suggestion sought |
Bare D-sub pins (male and female) make a small connector. Cover with a bit of
shrink wrap.
https://www.jameco.com/z/205089-1-TE-Connectivity-Size-20-D-Subminiature-Contact-Pin_449342.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4vXgczf2gIVD1cMCh0elAMBEAQYASABEgJ3LPD_BwE
-Kent
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 7:54 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
>
> Someone on the list may have the right answer to this...
>
> my instrument panels have a plastic overlay with built in electrostatic instrument
lighting. Each overlay has two power wires for the lights, that pass through
small holes in the aluminum instrument panel.
>
> Im looking for a suggestion for a connector I can use for the power wires that
can be connected and disconnected on the outside of the aluminum panel (behind
the overlay) then fed through the small hole in the panel so the overlay sits
flush. A two pin molex .062 connector is slightly too big.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: connector suggestion sought |
At 08:33 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote:
>
>
>Bare D-sub pins (male and female) make a small connector. Cover
>with a bit of shrink wrap.
>https://www.jameco.com/z/205089-1-TE-Connectivity-Size-20-D-Subminiature-Contact-Pin_449342.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4vXgczf2gIVD1cMCh0elAMBEAQYASABEgJ3LPD_BwE
>-Kent
Agreed . . .
Emacs!
How many pins do you need? I'll include them in your order.
Got some small i.d. shrink to throw in too. Do you
have a d-sub crimp tool?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |
At 03:47 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote:
>Hallo Robert
>
>I get every day about 10-20 e-mails from the
>aeroelectric list and I dont want that.
>
>how can I remove my e-mail address from this list?
>
>Best regards
>
>Hansj=F6rg
>
Go to Matronics.com/subscribe and tell
the system what lists you wish to keep
and which to discontinue.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: connector suggestion sought |
I have lots of pins, and the tooling, and lots of heat shrink. But I don
=99t think my avionics person will sign off on it. He=99s quite conser
vative.
Can I tell him it passes AC 43.13?
On Apr 29, 2018, at 09:54, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectri
c.com> wrote:
At 08:33 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote:
net.net>
>
> Bare D-sub pins (male and female) make a small connector. Cover with a bi
t of shrink wrap.
> https://www.jameco.com/z/205089-1-TE-Connectivity-Size-20-D-Subminiature-C
ontact-Pin_449342.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4vXgczf2gIVD1cMCh0elA
MBEAQYASABEgJ3LPD_BwE
> -Kent
Agreed . . .
<2cbd7af4.jpg>
How many pins do you need? I'll include them in your order.
Got some small i.d. shrink to throw in too. Do you
have a d-sub crimp tool?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) |
Why is some Tefzel wire super stiff (like that purchased from Aircraft
Spruce) while other Tefzel wire is much more flexible (like that purchased
from Stein Air)?
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 22759 wire
> was export controlled so we were leaning toward
> Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license
> and Teflon became the insulation of choice.
>
>
> Correction. TEFZEL. We looked at Teflon
> but not very hard. Excellent temperature ratings
> but very expensive. Teflon extruded onto
> the strands at such high temperatures that
> you had to have silver plated strands.
> Further, Teflon was softer and would cold-flow
> under the pressure a too tight a cable tie.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) |
Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same? If memory serves,
many months ago I was trolling ebay for deals on milspec wire & in the
process, found various numbers that all were Tefzel insulation, but some
had thicker insulation (larger overall diameter) than others of the same
gauge. I wish I could quote the numbers, but I failed to document what I
found.
Charlie
On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> Why is some Tefzel wire super stiff (like that purchased from Aircraft
> Spruce) while other Tefzel wire is much more flexible (like that purchased
> from Stein Air)?
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 22759 wire
>> was export controlled so we were leaning toward
>> Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license
>> and Teflon became the insulation of choice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Correction. TEFZEL. We looked at Teflon
>> but not very hard. Excellent temperature ratings
>> but very expensive. Teflon extruded onto
>> the strands at such high temperatures that
>> you had to have silver plated strands.
>> Further, Teflon was softer and would cold-flow
>> under the pressure a too tight a cable tie.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: connector suggestion sought |
| From: | John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
So is are any similar (eg: Molex) connectors just as good ---
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 29 Apr 2018, at 2:54 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelec
tric.com> wrote:
>
> At 08:33 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote:
vnet.net>
>>
>> Bare D-sub pins (male and female) make a small connector. Cover with a b
it of shrink wrap.
>> https://www.jameco.com/z/205089-1-TE-Connectivity-Size-20-D-Subminiature-
Contact-Pin_449342.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4vXgczf2gIVD1cMCh0el
AMBEAQYASABEgJ3LPD_BwE
>> -Kent
>
> Agreed . . .
>
> <2cbd7af4.jpg>
>
> How many pins do you need? I'll include them in your order.
> Got some small i.d. shrink to throw in too. Do you
> have a d-sub crimp tool?
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) |
M22759/16 -- some I have bought (white) is very stiff while other (colors)
is noticeably more flexible.
On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 7:41 AM, Charlie England
wrote:
> Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same? If memory serves,
> many months ago I was trolling ebay for deals on milspec wire & in the
> process, found various numbers that all were Tefzel insulation, but some
> had thicker insulation (larger overall diameter) than others of the same
> gauge. I wish I could quote the numbers, but I failed to document what I
> found.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>
>> Why is some Tefzel wire super stiff (like that purchased from Aircraft
>> Spruce) while other Tefzel wire is much more flexible (like that purchased
>> from Stein Air)?
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
>> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 22759 wire
>>> was export controlled so we were leaning toward
>>> Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license
>>> and Teflon became the insulation of choice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Correction. TEFZEL. We looked at Teflon
>>> but not very hard. Excellent temperature ratings
>>> but very expensive. Teflon extruded onto
>>> the strands at such high temperatures that
>>> you had to have silver plated strands.
>>> Further, Teflon was softer and would cold-flow
>>> under the pressure a too tight a cable tie.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: connector suggestion sought |
At 09:10 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote:
>I have lots of pins, and the tooling, and lots
>of heat shrink. But I don=99t think my avionics
>person will sign off on it. He=99s quite conservative.
>
>Can I tell him it passes AC 43.13?
I don't think AC43.13 would prohibit it
but it's certainly unique with respect to
legacy techniques. But if you'd asked
some FAA master of the rule books if
we could figure out a way to run dozens
of amps through arrays of 20AWG d-sub
pine, you would most certainly have been
discouraged from attempting it. Yet this
technique flew on a military supersonic
target and on numerous power distribution
boxes in the Hawker 4000.
Give it a try. If push comes to shove, you
can go to knife splices under heat-shrink
or even solder-sleeves. These wires are
seldom opened for service . . . there's
probably enough slack to cut out and replace
several solder sleeves . . . by that time
you'll probably be more than ready to sell
the airplane.
The knife splice is attractive from the
perspective of wire lost during each remove
replace operation. Cutting the single terminal
off the EL panel power wire only deprives you
of 3/16" or so of wire. Cutting out a solder
sleeve would double that.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) |
22759/18 is like /16 but =9Cthin wall=9D, if I recall.
On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:41, Charlie England wrote:
Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same? If memory serves, ma
ny months ago I was trolling ebay for deals on milspec wire & in the process
, found various numbers that all were Tefzel insulation, but some had thicke
r insulation (larger overall diameter) than others of the same gauge. I wish
I could quote the numbers, but I failed to document what I found.
Charlie
> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> Why is some Tefzel wire super stiff (like that purchased from Aircraft Spr
uce) while other Tefzel wire is much more flexible (like that purchased from
Stein Air)?
>
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@ae
roelectric.com> wrote:
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 22759 wire
>>> was export controlled so we were leaning toward
>>> Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license
>>> and Teflon became the insulation of choice.
>>
>>
>> Correction. TEFZEL. We looked at Teflon
>> but not very hard. Excellent temperature ratings
>> but very expensive. Teflon extruded onto
>> the strands at such high temperatures that
>> you had to have silver plated strands.
>> Further, Teflon was softer and would cold-flow
>> under the pressure a too tight a cable tie.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: connector suggestion sought |
I=99ll try him on the knife splices. They feel very 1973 though :)
>>sell the airplane
Heresy!
On Apr 29, 2018, at 13:38, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectri
c.com> wrote:
At 09:10 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote:
> I have lots of pins, and the tooling, and lots of heat shrink. But I don
=99t think my avionics person will sign off on it. He=99s quite con
servative.
>
> Can I tell him it passes AC 43.13?
I don't think AC43.13 would prohibit it
but it's certainly unique with respect to
legacy techniques. But if you'd asked
some FAA master of the rule books if
we could figure out a way to run dozens
of amps through arrays of 20AWG d-sub
pine, you would most certainly have been
discouraged from attempting it. Yet this
technique flew on a military supersonic
target and on numerous power distribution
boxes in the Hawker 4000.
Give it a try. If push comes to shove, you
can go to knife splices under heat-shrink
or even solder-sleeves. These wires are
seldom opened for service . . . there's
probably enough slack to cut out and replace
several solder sleeves . . . by that time
you'll probably be more than ready to sell
the airplane.
The knife splice is attractive from the
perspective of wire lost during each remove
replace operation. Cutting the single terminal
off the EL panel power wire only deprives you
of 3/16" or so of wire. Cutting out a solder
sleeve would double that.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?utf-8?B?SGFucyBKw7ZyZyBGcmVp?= <hjfrei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PVC vs Nylon Connectors |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent or Jackie Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) |
Here is a handy chart of wire species. You can google the coating
abbreviations or the part numbers for more info
-Kent
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:41 AM, Charlie England
wrote:
>
> Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Evolution of Wire (Correction) |
At 11:42 AM 4/29/2018, you wrote:
>M22759/16 -- some I have bought (white) is very stiff while other
>(colors) is noticeably more flexible.
>
>On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 7:41 AM, Charlie England
><ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>Are the numbers printed on the wire *exactly* the same? If memory
>serves, many months ago I was trolling ebay for deals on milspec
>wire & in the process, found various numbers that all were Tefzel
>insulation, but some had thicker insulation (larger overall
>diameter) than others of the same gauge. I wish I could quote the
>numbers, but I failed to document what I found.
there is a catalog at: https://goo.gl/ZfNq9T
In this document, you will find that 22759 has
about 90+ 'slash' numbers that define variations
on the theme for this class of wire.
There are other mil-spec numbers describing
wire that is entirely suited to our tasks.
I am mystified that products in a particular
/number would demonstrate significant variations . . .
unless the variations are a feature not defined
in the root specification . . . flexibility may
indeed be one. But materials, construction and
dimensions should be consistent to the catalog
description.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 03:06 PM 4/30/2018, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>"Even have a t-head tool that I'd make someone a really good deal
>on. Needed it for one task about 15 years ago."
>
>Okay, I'm a sucker for special tools. How much for the T-Head Crimper?
>
>Best regards,
>Jim Heekin
>
Sorry my friend, it's already spoken for . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel Hangar??? |
Hi All,
Sorry about a slightly off topic question.however.since there are a lot of
smart people with various technical backgrounds on this forum I was hoping
to get some (free) IT advice.
I have a DSL ADSL2+ modem with WIFI transmitter in the center of my house
(Comtrend AR-5381U).
My steel hangar is about 50 feet away and there is cement and asphalt over
the ground between the house and the hangar so to dig down and install a CAT
5 cable run out to the hangar is not a fun option.
Are there any WIFI extender options available to get WIFI out to the hangar?
I envision some kind DSL modem with a high powered WIFI router in the house
and one of the router's external WIFI antennas can be remote mounted on the
outside eve of the house using a cable connection between the WIFI router
and the remote mounted antenna and then another such WIFI antenna mounted on
the outside of the steel hangar with a cable to a WIFI router (or extender)
inside the hangar that rebroadcasts the WIFI signal in the hangar. There is
only about 50 feet distance between the house wall and the hangar wall.
Is there such a contraption available? If so can you please recommend a
make and model.
Any advice/suggestions/experience/ moments of silence/ positive energy
dances would be most appreciated!!!
Again.sorry about the off topic question.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
Folks,
Do you have any thoughts about using Velcro ties, or generic hook 'n' loop
straps, for dressing wires behind the instrument panel? It's seeming like a
good idea to me, especially in a plane where the panel is not "done." But
maybe my ol' brain is simply addled with exhaustion.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
One possibility is a USB WiFi adapter along with an USB extension cable.
Put the adapter outside under the hangar eave.
They cost as little as $0.99 from China to over $100.00
https://www.howtogeek.com/243330/how-to-choose-a-usb-wi-fi-adapter-for-your-laptop/
Other people might have a better idea.
A water pipe could water blast its way under a concrete driveway, but not 50 feet.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479792#479792
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
I love them.=C2- Especially on a tube airframe.=C2- You can run a loop
around a member and lock it in place, then unzip it to add a wire and put i
t back.=C2- There is always a layer of velcro between the wire and the tu
be.=C2- They are generally long enough that you can get a couple turns ar
ound the tube and pull them down tight, and the wires are held very snug.
=C2- But, it is still easy to go back in and add another wire or pull one
out.=C2-
They are just as strong as nylon ties, but more flexible.
On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 10:05 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
Folks,
Do you have any thoughts about using Velcro ties, or generic hook 'n' loop
straps, for dressing wires behind the instrument panel? It's seeming like a
good idea to me, especially in a plane where the panel is not "done." But
maybe my ol' brain is simply addled with exhaustion.
Thanks,=C2- =C2- -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
Google for cantennae.
When I was in Kentucky, I wanted to get my wifi down by the pool.=C2- I s
et a 10"x10" square of aluminum behind my cable modem with the internal ant
ennae to direct the signal.=C2- It worked like a charm.
On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 8:35 PM, William Hunter wrote:
Hi All,
=C2-Sorry about a slightly off topic questionhoweversin
ce there are a lot of smart people with various technical backgrounds on th
is forum I was hoping to get some (free) IT advice. =C2-I have a DSL ADSL
2+ modem with WIFI transmitter in the center of my house (Comtrend AR-5381U
).=C2- =C2-My steel hangar is about 50 feet away and there is cement a
nd asphalt over the ground between the house and the hangar so to dig down
and install a CAT 5 cable run out to the hangar is not a fun option. =C2-
Are there any WIFI extender options available to get WIFI out to the hangar
?=C2- =C2-I envision some kind DSL modem with a high powered WIFI rout
er in the house and one of the router=99s external WIFI antennas can
be remote mounted on the outside eve of the house using a cable connection
between the WIFI router and the remote mounted antenna and then another suc
h WIFI antenna mounted on the outside of the steel hangar with a cable to a
WIFI router (or extender) inside the hangar that rebroadcasts the WIFI sig
nal in the hangar.=C2- There is only about 50 feet distance between the h
ouse wall and the hangar wall. =C2-Is there such a contraption available?
=C2- If so can you please recommend a make and model. =C2-Any advice/su
ggestions/experience/ moments of silence/ positive energy dances would be m
ost appreciated!!! =C2-Againsorry about the off topic question..
. =C2-Cheers!!! =C2-Bill=C2- Hunter =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 5/2/2018 7:32 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Sorry about a slightly off topic questionhoweversince there are a
> lot of smart people with various technical backgrounds on this forum I
> was hoping to get some (free) IT advice.
>
> I have a DSL ADSL2+ modem with WIFI transmitter in the center of my
> house (Comtrend AR-5381U).
>
> My steel hangar is about 50 feet away and there is cement and asphalt
> over the ground between the house and the hangar so to dig down and
> install a CAT 5 cable run out to the hangar is not a fun option.
>
> Are there any WIFI extender options available to get WIFI out to the
> hangar?
>
> I envision some kind DSL modem with a high powered WIFI router in the
> house and one of the routers external WIFI antennas can be remote
> mounted on the outside eve of the house using a cable connection
> between the WIFI router and the remote mounted antenna and then
> another such WIFI antenna mounted on the outside of the steel hangar
> with a cable to a WIFI router (or extender) inside the hangar that
> rebroadcasts the WIFI signal in the hangar. There is only about 50
> feet distance between the house wall and the hangar wall.
>
> Is there such a contraption available? If so can you please recommend
> a make and model.
>
> Any advice/suggestions/experience/ moments of silence/ positive energy
> dances would be most appreciated!!!
>
> Againsorry about the off topic question.
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
There are probably much more qualified people here that can advise, but
I've done similar stuff.
I'd be doubtful of remoting one of the router's antennas, unless it
specifically says you can. Most of the new stuff operates at roughly 5
times the frequency of our transponders. Dozens of feet of coax at those
frequencies... not likely to work well.
One way is to wire a 2nd router to your network, positioned where the
hangar can 'see' it. Place what's known as an 'access point' at the
hangar, where it can 'see' the router at the house. Wire the access
point to an additional router in the hangar. The kicker to all this is
configuring everything to talk to each other. I did it years ago, when a
neighbor could get DSL but my house was just too far away from the DSLAM
to work. I now have a bad DSL connection, and a decent LTE modem serving
my home network, and I've forgotten most of the config details.
A better option, Ubiquiti Nanostations, would look functionally similar,
but would probably be easier to set up. I haven't used these, but they
come highly recommended by guys on a Linux user group I monitor.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&oq=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65.7250182j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
A bit over $100 for a pair, and you'll still need another router in the
hangar.
A third option, if the hangar AC power is fed from the house's meter and
panel, would be a power line networking pair. Note that both the
transmitter and receiver need to be on the same 'side' of the panel
(same phase of your AC power). Look here for options.
https://www.google.com/search?q=powerline+network+extender&oq=power+line+network&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.11494j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | argoldman(at)aol.com |
Ill second that.=C2- As=C2- temporary holders they are terrific. You ca
n get a coil of velcro (non-adhesive) with male on one side and female on t
he other and cut it to the length and width required. Depending on the comp
lexity of your installation, you can save hundreds of wire ties or lacing k
nots.
=C2-
Don't ask me why there are literally piles of threads and cut plastic ties
on the floor.
=C2-
Use permanent only after all your wires are routed AND TESTED. When you are
ready to actually button up.
=C2-
I found with mine, that to this point ( I think that I am just about done (
famous last words) I have literally made many many many changes that requir
ed removing all of my beautiful ties to this point. I now against my compul
sion to tie up all the wire bundles and although almost done, will only use
velcro to get them bound until I am CERTAIN.
=C2-
I would not, however, use them as a permanent binding method as the binding
performance is possibly unknown in the hot environment. Should they let go
, this may be in an area of control rods (elevators) rods, springs, cables
etc which may be used in elevator trim and autopilot.
=C2-
Rich
=C2-
In a message dated 5/2/2018 9:24:39 PM Central Standard Time, echristley@at
t.net writes:
=C2-
I love them.=C2- Especially on a tube airframe.=C2- You can run a loop
around a member and lock it in place, then unzip it to add a wire and put i
t back.=C2- There is always a layer of velcro between the wire and the tu
be.=C2- They are generally long enough that you can get a couple turns ar
ound the tube and pull them down tight, and the wires are held very snug.
=C2- But, it is still easy to go back in and add another wire or pull one
out.=C2-
=C2-
They are just as strong as nylon ties, but more flexible.
=C2-
On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 10:05 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
Folks,
=C2-
Do you have any thoughts about using Velcro ties, or generic hook 'n' loop
straps, for dressing wires behind the instrument panel? It's seeming like a
good idea to me, especially in a plane where the panel is not "done." But
maybe my ol' brain is simply addled with exhaustion.
=C2-
Thanks,
=C2- =C2- -- Art Z.
=C2-
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
I set up a pair of these Ubiquiti Loco M5's for a hangar to hangar
bridge of a few hundred feet
at our airport this year. They are very easy to configure and work very
well.
As mentioned by Charlie, you would then still put a wireless access
point in the
hangar if you want wifi there (or you could hard wire a PC direct).
They have a range of 10km, so you probably want to lower the power level for
a short link, but, they should be very reliable and fast. You can also
buy some
versions of wireless AP that can act as a wireless client to your home wifi,
and mount that on the hangar and run the cable to your PC in the hangar.
There are just so many ways to skin the cat. It all depends on how much
cash
you put in, but in general the most you could spend would be a couple
hundred
bucks if you went real deluxe.
Tim
On 5/2/2018 10:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>>
> There are probably much more qualified people here that can advise,
> but I've done similar stuff.
>
> I'd be doubtful of remoting one of the router's antennas, unless it
> specifically says you can. Most of the new stuff operates at roughly 5
> times the frequency of our transponders. Dozens of feet of coax at
> those frequencies... not likely to work well.
>
> One way is to wire a 2nd router to your network, positioned where the
> hangar can 'see' it. Place what's known as an 'access point' at the
> hangar, where it can 'see' the router at the house. Wire the access
> point to an additional router in the hangar. The kicker to all this is
> configuring everything to talk to each other. I did it years ago, when
> a neighbor could get DSL but my house was just too far away from the
> DSLAM to work. I now have a bad DSL connection, and a decent LTE modem
> serving my home network, and I've forgotten most of the config details.
>
> A better option, Ubiquiti Nanostations, would look functionally
> similar, but would probably be easier to set up. I haven't used these,
> but they come highly recommended by guys on a Linux user group I monitor.
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&oq=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65.7250182j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
>
> A bit over $100 for a pair, and you'll still need another router in
> the hangar.
>
> A third option, if the hangar AC power is fed from the house's meter
> and panel, would be a power line networking pair. Note that both the
> transmitter and receiver need to be on the same 'side' of the panel
> (same phase of your AC power). Look here for options.
> https://www.google.com/search?q=powerline+network+extender&oq=power+line+network&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.11494j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
Yes I admit this topic is a bit over my head.so THANKS for your help.
> It all depends on how much cash you put in, but in general the most you
could spend would be a couple hundred bucks if you went real deluxe.
200 bucks is within the threshold of pain.less pain than digging
> you would then still put a wireless access point in the hangar if you want
wifi
Yes preferred based on the need for handheld phones in addition to the PC
(poor cellphone coverage here so WIFI is the only internet show in town)
>They have a range of 10km,
The house does not have any windows that face the hangar so some kind of
remote antenna under the eve of the roof would be ideal. how does the WIFI
get from the inside router to the rocket antenna?
The hangar is only 50 feet wall to wall.
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote
Steel Hangar???
I set up a pair of these Ubiquiti Loco M5's for a hangar to hangar bridge of
a few hundred feet
at our airport this year. They are very easy to configure and work very
well.
As mentioned by Charlie, you would then still put a wireless access point in
the
hangar if you want wifi there (or you could hard wire a PC direct).
They have a range of 10km, so you probably want to lower the power level for
a short link, but, they should be very reliable and fast. You can also buy
some
versions of wireless AP that can act as a wireless client to your home wifi,
and mount that on the hangar and run the cable to your PC in the hangar.
There are just so many ways to skin the cat. It all depends on how much
cash
you put in, but in general the most you could spend would be a couple
hundred
bucks if you went real deluxe.
Tim
On 5/2/2018 10:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
There are probably much more qualified people here that can advise, but I've
done similar stuff.
I'd be doubtful of remoting one of the router's antennas, unless it
specifically says you can. Most of the new stuff operates at roughly 5 times
the frequency of our transponders. Dozens of feet of coax at those
frequencies... not likely to work well.
One way is to wire a 2nd router to your network, positioned where the hangar
can 'see' it. Place what's known as an 'access point' at the hangar, where
it can 'see' the router at the house. Wire the access point to an additional
router in the hangar. The kicker to all this is configuring everything to
talk to each other. I did it years ago, when a neighbor could get DSL but my
house was just too far away from the DSLAM to work. I now have a bad DSL
connection, and a decent LTE modem serving my home network, and I've
forgotten most of the config details.
A better option, Ubiquiti Nanostations, would look functionally similar, but
would probably be easier to set up. I haven't used these, but they come
highly recommended by guys on a Linux user group I monitor.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ubiquiti+nano+stations
&oq=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65.7250182j0j7&sourceid=chro
me&ie=UTF-8
A bit over $100 for a pair, and you'll still need another router in the
hangar.
A third option, if the hangar AC power is fed from the house's meter and
panel, would be a power line networking pair. Note that both the transmitter
and receiver need to be on the same 'side' of the panel (same phase of your
AC power). Look here for options.
https://www.google.com/search?q=powerline+network+extender
&oq=power+line+network&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.11494j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=U
TF-8
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
The positive wire from the buss to master (and OVP module) to ALT relay is
protected by 22AWG fuselink.
Can I use an ATC fuse instead?
I have reformed and simplified my electrical system based on AEC. I now
have a fuse buss instead of breakers etc. I have a slot spare and to use
an ATC fuse would be simpler.
Many thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joel Ventura <ventura(at)brandeis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
Tmart sells several inexpensive WiFi devices that may help you. Go to the
link below, and search for wifi extender, wifi repeater, and wifi booster.
That should cover it.
I have not purchased any of these devices, so I don't know how good they
are, however, I have purchased other electronics, including wifi devices
from them, and they worked as advertised. Reviews of the products are
available, but I do not know how useful they will be.
Be aware that some of their products ship from the US and others from
China, so check that out. Since they usually don't charge for shipping, if
it is coming from China, it will be by slow boat and can take over a month.
Since I have an account with them, if I refer you we each get a $10 off
coupon. Let me know if you are interested in that. Good luck, and let us
know what worked. --joel
https://www.tmart.com/search.html?typeid=&q=wifi+repeater
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 8:32 PM, William Hunter
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>
> Sorry about a slightly off topic questionhoweversince t
here are a lot of
> smart people with various technical backgrounds on this forum I was hopin
g
> to get some (free) IT advice.
>
>
> I have a DSL ADSL2+ modem with WIFI transmitter in the center of my house
> (Comtrend AR-5381U).
>
>
> My steel hangar is about 50 feet away and there is cement and asphalt ove
r
> the ground between the house and the hangar so to dig down and install a
> CAT 5 cable run out to the hangar is not a fun option.
>
>
> Are there any WIFI extender options available to get WIFI out to the
> hangar?
>
>
> I envision some kind DSL modem with a high powered WIFI router in the
> house and one of the router=99s external WIFI antennas can be remot
e mounted
> on the outside eve of the house using a cable connection between the WIFI
> router and the remote mounted antenna and then another such WIFI antenna
> mounted on the outside of the steel hangar with a cable to a WIFI router
> (or extender) inside the hangar that rebroadcasts the WIFI signal in the
> hangar. There is only about 50 feet distance between the house wall and
> the hangar wall.
>
>
> Is there such a contraption available? If so can you please recommend a
> make and model.
>
>
> Any advice/suggestions/experience/ moments of silence/ positive energy
> dances would be most appreciated!!!
>
>
> Againsorry about the off topic question.
>
> ..
>
>
> Cheers!!!
>
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Hi Bill,
With wifi there are so many ways you can do the various
links, from repeaters to hard wired and then wireless
bridges to jump the gap. I personally prefer to hardware
to the bridges. So, going that route looks like this:
Assuming you have a current router that has an open LAN
port on it to plug a hard wired device, you run a cable from
the router to under your eaves or anywhere that you can get
line of sight to the hangar. Literally any line of site
should work fine. You plug the cable into the Ubiquiti bridge
and run it to the router. You connect a little
power-over-ethernet box into that cable, and then your
router uses a second shorter patch cable to connect to
that POE box as well. That POE box makes things real
nice as you don't have to run a power circuit to the bridge,
but it's fed by the CAT5/6 cable by injecting power inline.
Now you're broadcasting. And these things can go point
to point, or point to multipoint, so if you had other
garages, you just need another one for every site you want
to connect into the system.
Here are 2 versions of bridge. You can use whichever
frequency band you want.
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-0000070700985-NanoStation-loco/dp/B004EHSV4W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361752&sr=8-1&keywords=ubiquiti+nanostation+loco+m5
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-NanoStation-locoM2-2-4GHz-Outdoor/dp/B00DCNRTAG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361777&sr=8-1&keywords=ubiquiti+nanostation+loco+m2
On the hangar end, you have basically a very similar thing,
in that you have a power injector with a CAT5/6 cable to
the wireless bridge device. But, on the inside of
that POE converter, you just connect a patch cable to
whatever router or access point you want to use in the
hangar. You do NOT use the WAN port if you use a router,
as this router you would want operating in wireless
access point mode.
There are just hundreds of choices, and I've never
bought Ubiquiti for in-home AP's before, but something
like this would work.
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-UAP-AC-Iw-Wireless-Access/dp/B06XZLP8Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361647&sr=8-2&keywords=unifi+ac+in-wall
As would something like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Lite-UAPACLITEUS/dp/B015PR20GY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361714&sr=8-1&keywords=unifi+apac+lite
So just plug the cat5/6 from the AP into the
same power injector on the LAN side, (or if it offers it's own
POE adapter just use CAT5/6 to connect them together)
and then you now have a wireless AP in your hangar
that's on the same network as your house network is.
You can set the same SSID if you wish, on the AP, and the
same security, and everything.
I'm a fan of not buying all-in-one wireless routers, because
it allows you to buy a nice little router and then have
separate AP's to locate in places to better cover the house.
Anyway, that's a general picture of what you'd buy and
how you'd connect it.
Programming them is pretty easy too.
Tim
On 5/2/2018 11:32 PM, William Hunter wrote:
> Yes I admit this topic is a bit over my headso THANKS for your help.
>
>> It all depends on how much cash you put in, but in general the most
> you could spend would be a couple hundred bucks if you went real deluxe.
>
> 200 bucks is within the threshold of painless pain than digging
>
>> you would then still put a wireless access point in the hangar if you want wifi
>
> Yes preferred based on the need for handheld phones in addition to the
> PC (poor cellphone coverage here so WIFI is the only internet show in town)
>
>>They have a range of 10km,
>
> The house does not have any windows that face the hangar so some kind of
> remote antenna under the eve of the roof would be ideal how does the
> WIFI get from the inside router to the rocket antenna?
>
> The hangar is only 50 feet wall to wall
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim
> Olson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2018 9:12 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My
> Remote Steel Hangar???
>
> I set up a pair of these Ubiquiti Loco M5's for a hangar to hangar
> bridge of a few hundred feet
> at our airport this year. They are very easy to configure and work very
> well.
> As mentioned by Charlie, you would then still put a wireless access
> point in the
> hangar if you want wifi there (or you could hard wire a PC direct).
> They have a range of 10km, so you probably want to lower the power level for
> a short link, but, they should be very reliable and fast. You can also
> buy some
> versions of wireless AP that can act as a wireless client to your home wifi,
> and mount that on the hangar and run the cable to your PC in the hangar.
> There are just so many ways to skin the cat. It all depends on how much
> cash
> you put in, but in general the most you could spend would be a couple
> hundred
> bucks if you went real deluxe.
>
> Tim
>
> On 5/2/2018 10:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> There are probably much more qualified people here that can advise,
> but I've done similar stuff.
>
> I'd be doubtful of remoting one of the router's antennas, unless it
> specifically says you can. Most of the new stuff operates at roughly
> 5 times the frequency of our transponders. Dozens of feet of coax at
> those frequencies... not likely to work well.
>
> One way is to wire a 2nd router to your network, positioned where
> the hangar can 'see' it. Place what's known as an 'access point' at
> the hangar, where it can 'see' the router at the house. Wire the
> access point to an additional router in the hangar. The kicker to
> all this is configuring everything to talk to each other. I did it
> years ago, when a neighbor could get DSL but my house was just too
> far away from the DSLAM to work. I now have a bad DSL connection,
> and a decent LTE modem serving my home network, and I've forgotten
> most of the config details.
>
> A better option, Ubiquiti Nanostations, would look functionally
> similar, but would probably be easier to set up. I haven't used
> these, but they come highly recommended by guys on a Linux user
> group I monitor.
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&oq=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65.7250182j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
>
> A bit over $100 for a pair, and you'll still need another router in
> the hangar.
>
> A third option, if the hangar AC power is fed from the house's meter
> and panel, would be a power line networking pair. Note that both the
> transmitter and receiver need to be on the same 'side' of the panel
> (same phase of your AC power). Look here for options.
> https://www.google.com/search?q=powerline+network+extender&oq=power+line+network&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.11494j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Schwenn <peter(at)schwenn.com> |
| Subject: | Need to increase built-in Voltage Regulator limit by |
.5V
AeroElectrocutors,
Rotax 912iS internal voltage regulator cutoff is 14.2. Lithium-IRON
(LiFePO4) needs 14.7 for full and timely charge.
I can't reasonably modify the internal regulator.
Is there a reasonable way to get 14.7V?
Thanks,
Peter Schwenn
P.S. Why would I want to use a lithium-iron battery? Don't Lithium-Ion
batteries have a host of problems?
In my experience they have just one: if fully discharged (approx: <10
V) they can be difficult and slow to recover.
They don't overheat or catch fire (as LiPo, LiCoO2,...can), They
contain nothing toxic or hazardous. They needn't be charged slowly. They
can supply current rapidly. They don't require a protective or heavy
enclosure.
All battery types differ in their requirements. Lithium-Iron requires
a special charger; for balancing cells, recovery from discharge, and NOT
performing operations other types may require.
240-602-6931
6514 41st Av. U Park MD 20782
Eaa4 & Xenos N32XS @ KCGS
N16XN under construction -
Rivetless skins for Laminar Flow
http://www.schwenn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
If you have the 5 amp alternator circuit breaker, then I think it would be OK to
replace the fuselink with a 30 amp fuse (or 35 if it will fit). A 22 awg fuselink
can carry up to 40 amps before melting. Keep in mind that if the fuse
blows, the alternator will be disconnected. It is not safe to replace a fuse
while flying.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479820#479820
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need to increase built-in Voltage Regulator limit |
by .5V
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
14.2 volts might be OK. Van's Aircraft put the new 912iS in their latest RV-12
along with a Lithium battery. Read what EarthX has to say:
https://earthxbatteries.com/engine-charging-systems-use-lithium-batteries
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479821#479821
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Art:
I use Velcro all the time. GREAT for when you are figuring out where and
how to run wires. Then AFTER all is good, I replace them with Black
Ty-Wraps. Well, not all black ty-wraps. I use RED on power lines green on
signal lines and yellow on audio lines. When ever I can... Sometimes
bundles just don't cooperate.
Barry
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:02 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Do you have any thoughts about using Velcro ties, or generic hook 'n' loop
> straps, for dressing wires behind the instrument panel? It's seeming like a
> good idea to me, especially in a plane where the panel is not "done." But
> maybe my ol' brain is simply addled with exhaustion.
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
Joe
Thanks
Let me refine my question...(forgive me if in being dumb)
"Is a 22awg fuselink electrically different from a 5amp ATC fuse or are
they equivalent?"
Will
On Thu, May 3, 2018, 13:39 user9253 wrote:
>
> If you have the 5 amp alternator circuit breaker, then I think it would be
> OK to replace the fuselink with a 30 amp fuse (or 35 if it will fit). A 22
> awg fuselink can carry up to 40 amps before melting. Keep in mind that if
> the fuse blows, the alternator will be disconnected. It is not safe to
> replace a fuse while flying.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479820#479820
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <mike(at)vision499.com> |
| Subject: | Antenna Question |
Would it create a problem if the transponder and com antennas are close to
each other?
Thanks
Mike
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Question |
Mike:
Do you have the ability to bench check the configuration before instlation?
Manufactures usually ask for 36" to 48" separation between antennas.
The transponder has an output of 100 to 310 Watts. That is a lot of signal
to handle when close to another antenna.
You can usually move the transponder antenna forward just ahead of the
landing gear. May be difficult to do with a tail dagger??? But, the
transponder is an output device not a receive device so noise is not an
issue, so forward works well. The Comm antenna - Well, noise is an issue,
separation is mandatory.
Barry
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 6:47 PM, wrote:
>
>
> Would it create a problem if the transponder and com antennas are close to
> each other?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo]
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
> <#m_-5554840755388425778_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Question |
Define close, and define problem.
COM radios and tranponders use very different frequency bands.
I dont think youre going to find anyone to guarantee no problems, but depending
on what close means, my inexpert gut feeling its unlikely.
Its possible that you might hear a faint ticking noise on the radio while the transponder
is powered.
On May 3, 2018, at 6:47 PM, wrote:
Would it create a problem if the transponder and com antennas are close to each
other?
Thanks
Mike
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
At 06:51 AM 5/3/2018, you wrote:
>The positive wire from the buss to master (and
>OVP module) to ALT relay is protected by 22AWG fuselink.
>
>Can I use an ATC fuse instead?
>
>I have reformed and simplified my electrical
>system based on AEC.=C2 I now have a fuse buss
>instead of breakers etc.=C2 I have a slot spare
>and to use an ATC fuse would be simpler.
A piece of 22AWG wire has a hard fault
fusing characteristic on a par with a
40-50 at MaxiFuse. You could use a
MaxiFuse but it's bulkier than the
fusible link.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
Ok thanks appreciate the answer
22awg fuse link it is then.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Thu, May 3, 2018, 20:28 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 06:51 AM 5/3/2018, you wrote:
>
> The positive wire from the buss to master (and OVP module) to ALT relay i
s
> protected by 22AWG fuselink.
>
> Can I use an ATC fuse instead?
>
> I have reformed and simplified my electrical system based on AEC.=C3=82
I now
> have a fuse buss instead of breakers etc.=C3=82 I have a slot spare and
to use
> an ATC fuse would be simpler.
>
>
> A piece of 22AWG wire has a hard fault
> fusing characteristic on a par with a
> 40-50 at MaxiFuse. You could use a
> MaxiFuse but it's bulkier than the
> fusible link.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
Why do you replace the velcro, Barry?=C2- I've left it on, and after 6 mo
nths, if you can't find the end of the strip, it is VERY hard to get off.
On Thursday, May 3, 2018 3:23 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Art:
I use Velcro all the time. GREAT for when you are figuring out where and ho
w to run wires.=C2- Then AFTER all is good, I replace them with Black Ty-
Wraps.=C2- Well, not all black ty-wraps.=C2- I use RED on power lines g
reen on signal lines and yellow on audio lines.=C2- When ever I can...=C2
- Sometimes bundles just don't cooperate.
Barry
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:02 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
Folks,
Do you have any thoughts about using Velcro ties, or generic hook 'n' loop
straps, for dressing wires behind the instrument panel? It's seeming like a
good idea to me, especially in a plane where the panel is not "done." But
maybe my ol' brain is simply addled with exhaustion.
Thanks,=C2- =C2- -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon. com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Question |
Bob,
>From my limited experience, I see no demonstrable benefit to working with
wire as fine as 24AWG. Certainly the weight is a non-issue. 24AWG is
downright dainty compared to 20AWG. I think it is criminal that Ray Allen
uses such fine wire in its servo pigtails. To me, using such fine wire is
just asking for trouble.
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:43 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 12:26 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob. That clears some things up for me. You have not commented on
> using 20AWG with a 24AWG fuselink. I'm sure at some point the mechanical
> properties of the wire become an issue. Is 24AWG too small to be messing
> with for a fuselink?
>
>
> Actually, no . . .
>
> We used a lot of 24AWG in the airframe wiring
> on Premier . . . lots of grumbling at the outset
> but I think if proved to be pretty much a non
> issue. When crimping 24AWG into the red pidg
> terminals, I do double the strip length and
> fold the strands back to double the copper
> in the crimp . . . and i'm not sure that
> offers demonstrable benefit.
>
> Play around with it on the bench and see
> what YOU think . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
Because I work on a lot of certified aircraft and on them it is not
permitted.
Your logic is good... And another reason why to replace the Velcro with
ty-wraps.
The Velcro is REPLACEABLE, so I can use it on other planes without buying
more and Velcro cost more than a handful of ty-wraps.
Barry
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:11 PM, Ernest Christley
wrote:
> Why do you replace the velcro, Barry? I've left it on, and after 6
> months, if you can't find the end of the strip, it is VERY hard to get off.
>
>
> On Thursday, May 3, 2018 3:23 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
>
>
> Art:
>
> I use Velcro all the time. GREAT for when you are figuring out where and
> how to run wires. Then AFTER all is good, I replace them with Black
> Ty-Wraps. Well, not all black ty-wraps. I use RED on power lines green on
> signal lines and yellow on audio lines. When ever I can... Sometimes
> bundles just don't cooperate.
>
> Barry
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:02 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Do you have any thoughts about using Velcro ties, or generic hook 'n' loop
> straps, for dressing wires behind the instrument panel? It's seeming like a
> good idea to me, especially in a plane where the panel is not "done." But
> maybe my ol' brain is simply addled with exhaustion.
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon. com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
Joe and Bob,
Thanks so much...as usual a real education. I had no idea that a 22 AWG
fuselink is equivalent to a 30-40AMP fuse. Intuitively I thought it was
much less. Much appreciated.
So if a 22AWG wire is normally "rated" to 5A which means 10degC (Ch8-8)
current rise presumably therefore needs 40A to get to melting point.
By the same token the 16AWG fuselink at the starter contactor (from the
alternator) and from the battery contactor to the buss performs in a
similar way. If this is correct the 16AWG fuselink rated at 12.5A for 10
degC current rise will melt at something like 100A. Whereas the 12AWG wire
it's protecting will melt at something like 150 .
Is this correct?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 06:51 AM 5/3/2018, you wrote:
>
> The positive wire from the buss to master (and OVP module) to ALT relay i
s
> protected by 22AWG fuselink.
>
> Can I use an ATC fuse instead?
>
> I have reformed and simplified my electrical system based on AEC.=C3=82
I now
> have a fuse buss instead of breakers etc.=C3=82 I have a slot spare and
to use
> an ATC fuse would be simpler.
>
>
> A piece of 22AWG wire has a hard fault
> fusing characteristic on a par with a
> 40-50 at MaxiFuse. You could use a
> MaxiFuse but it's bulkier than the
> fusible link.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
:-)
That last one was the best.=C2- Don't want to be handing out that expensi
ve velcro to everybody that wanders in.=C2- I only have the one plane to
work on...for now, so it makes a good place to store my spares.=C2- :-)
On Friday, May 4, 2018 12:48 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Because I work on a lot of certified aircraft and on them it is not permit
ted.
Your logic is good...=C2- And another reason why to replace the Velcro wi
th ty-wraps.
The Velcro is REPLACEABLE, so I can use it on other planes without buying m
ore and Velcro cost more than a handful of ty-wraps.
Barry
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:11 PM, Ernest Christley wrot
e:
Why do you replace the velcro, Barry?=C2- I've left it on, and after 6 mo
nths, if you can't find the end of the strip, it is VERY hard to get off.
On Thursday, May 3, 2018 3:23 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Art:
I use Velcro all the time. GREAT for when you are figuring out where and ho
w to run wires.=C2- Then AFTER all is good, I replace them with Black Ty-
Wraps.=C2- Well, not all black ty-wraps.=C2- I use RED on power lines g
reen on signal lines and yellow on audio lines.=C2- When ever I can...=C2
- Sometimes bundles just don't cooperate.
Barry
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:02 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
Folks,
Do you have any thoughts about using Velcro ties, or generic hook 'n' loop
straps, for dressing wires behind the instrument panel? It's seeming like a
good idea to me, especially in a plane where the panel is not "done." But
maybe my ol' brain is simply addled with exhaustion.
Thanks,=C2- =C2- -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon. com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
See the website below for a pdf listing the fusing (melting) current of wires.
It is a lot higher than one might expect. The choice of wire size has more to
do with voltage drop and insulation properties than the ampacity of the wire.
http://www.hsmwire.com/New%20PDFs/Fusing_Currents_Melting_Temperature_Copper_Aluminum_Magnet_Wire.pdf
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479856#479856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question |
At 12:01 PM 5/4/2018, you wrote:
>Joe and Bob,
>
>Thanks so much...as usual a real education.=C2 =C2
>I had no idea that a 22 AWG fuselink is
>equivalent to a 30-40AMP fuse.=C2 =C2 Intuitively I
>thought it was much less.=C2 =C2 Much appreciated.
>
>So if a 22AWG wire is normally "rated" to 5A
>which means 10degC (Ch8-8) current rise
>presumably therefore needs 40A to get to melting point.=C2
Exactly . . . see https://goo.gl/zye61w
Circuit protection is about keeping insulation
temperatures comfortably below maximum rated
operating vales. Wire size is all about maintaining
distribution voltage drops below acceptable levels
based on system design goals. 5% is the max-drop
rule of thumb although other values may be adopted
by program managers.
Wire sizing tends to be very conservative . . . unless
you are as weight-sensitive as a moon mission or
Voyager flight, the design rules will keep wires
pretty cool.
>By the same token the 16AWG fuselink at the
>starter contactor (from the alternator) and from
>the battery contactor to the buss performs in a
>similar way. If this is correct the 16AWG
>fuselink rated at 12.5A for 10 degC current rise
>will melt at something like 100A. Whereas the
>12AWG wire it's protecting will melt at something like 150.
Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect
major feeders of a distribution system against
hard faults . . . generally experienced only during
major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault,
were talking many times hundreds to thousands of
amps supplied by a battery . . . not the soft
fault precipitated by a failing appliance.
https://goo.gl/QEBeZs
>Is this correct?
Generally . . . When we use plain-vanilla wire
as a fusible link in the OBAM aircraft world, it's
a good idea to use the silicone/fiberglas sleeving
over it to limit the propagation of heat damage
during a fusing event. In the ground transportation
industries, fusible links are fabricated from wire
having friendlier outcomes during the fusing event.
Hypalon insulation (A Dupont product that targeted
electric locomotives in mines) is used on many
fusible link replacement assemblies available at your
local car parts stores . . . or in bulk wire on
places like eBay.
https://goo.gl/RH2eEY
The material selected for a fusible link has
little to do the loads presented by downstream
appliances. The wire in fusible link is EXPECTED
to burn . . . at many degrees above the insulation
rating. Selection of material is about reduction
of risk in the rare but catastrophic event.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) |
The redirection link didn't capture the whole
page . . . here's a 'fix' . . .
Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect
major feeders of a distribution system against
hard faults . . . generally experienced only during
major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault,
were talking many times hundreds to thousands of
amps supplied by a battery . . . not the soft
fault precipitated by a failing appliance.
https://goo.gl/up9oNB
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | 24AWG airframe wire |
At 11:38 AM 5/4/2018, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
> From my limited experience, I see no demonstrable benefit to
> working with wire as fine as 24AWG. Certainly the weight is a
> non-issue. 24AWG is downright dainty compared to 20AWG. I think it
> is criminal that Ray Allen uses such fine wire in its servo
> pigtails. To me, using such fine wire is just asking for trouble.
I had conversations with those folk about
that several years running at OSH. Those
conversations that prompted the article I posted at . . .
https://goo.gl/GmNi5Q
The use of 24 AWG in Premier wasn't so
much a weight thing as it was a volume
and to some extent a flexibility issue.
The battle between various systems groups
can approach blood-letting ferocity when
parceling out spaces in the airframe. Of
course, the engine and flight controls
guys are at the top of the hierarchy
with everyone else scrambling for the
'scraps'. My heart bled for the HVAC
guys . . . making ductwork smaller
was never a happy thought.
I had the electrical-avionics group on
the GP180 when it was still a joint
venture between Gates and Piaggio . . .
so been there, done that. We were happy
to get Tefzel wires on the airplane at
the time.
The 'open' spaces between cabin trim
and the aircraft skin on that airplane
was just about an inch . . . There
were structural limitations on just
how big a hole you could put in a former
to run tubes, wires, etc. I wasn't closely
connected to the Premier program at Beech,
but wrestling matches were equally exciting
if not more so.
The 24AWG in airframe bundles was all
assembled on form boards with wires measured
and terminated on automatic machines. It
had very little impact on the line techs.
But I agree, the 24AWG flying leads off
the MAC/RA servos served no customer-friendly
purpose.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
Folks,
I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG
cable) per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my
rudder cables.
=8B
Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Handberg <stinsonwagon(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
You could use one of these
Hydraulic Wire Crimping Tool
|
|
|
| | |
|
|
|
| |
Hydraulic Wire Crimping Tool
Restricted circuits can cause wire failure, melting or even a fire. Crimp
wires and butt connectors properly wit... | |
|
|
If you cant borrow one wait for a 25% of coupon.Good luck
From: Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2018 7:42 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable
Folks,
I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG cable
) per=C2-http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my rud
der cables.=C2-=8B
Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
=C2- =C2- -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what a
m I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG
> cable) per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>
> Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my
> rudder cables.
>
>
> Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
I'd lean toward solder, since there's no assurance that the die will apply
the right level of compression (It's made for the figure-8 shape of cable
swages).
Do you have access to a hydraulic press? I crimped some #4 cables using a
big Crescent wrench adjusted to just larger than the barrel diameter, and a
piece of steel the same thickness as the barrel. Barrel between the jaws of
the wrench, steel on edge above the barrel, and used the press ram to crimp
it.
I need to put some lugs on some #4 direct-burial aluminum 'quad-plex' cable
for a house/hangar project, and I'm thinking about just using my rivet
squeezer for that (the cable is already in the ground; hard to get the
press up the hill to the ends).
For the price, this tool is tempting, though:
https://jet.com/product/detail/044de210e0e54490b3104f2933a8c4e9?jcmp=pla:
ggl:nj_roc_gen_tools_home_improvement_a2:tools_home_improvement_power_hand_
tools_strippers_crimpers_a2:na:PLA_1062736267_53681764978_pla-575440131752_
c:na:na:na:2PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=1062736267&is_retargeting=true&cl
ickid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d8-66d818f2a6db&kclid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d
8-66d818f2a6db&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrLXXBRCXARIsAIttmRMz6bd20WicKga0R-gwf9V31rSn
EMlvZaDPr9oFZflf-2UX0q9m0JgaAsNREALw_wcB
Looks like it came from the same factory as the Harbor freight tool they
sell for $55.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald Farek <gfarek(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
HarborFreight has the same crimper.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 5, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG cab
le) per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>>
>> Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my r
udder cables.
>>
>>
>> Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
>>
>> -- Art Z.
>>
>> --
>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>
>> "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel
> I'd lean toward solder, since there's no assurance that the die will apply
the right level of compression (It's made for the figure-8 shape of cable s
wages).
>
> Do you have access to a hydraulic press? I crimped some #4 cables using a b
ig Crescent wrench adjusted to just larger than the barrel diameter, and a p
iece of steel the same thickness as the barrel. Barrel between the jaws of t
he wrench, steel on edge above the barrel, and used the press ram to crimp i
t.
>
> I need to put some lugs on some #4 direct-burial aluminum 'quad-plex' cabl
e for a house/hangar project, and I'm thinking about just using my rivet squ
eezer for that (the cable is already in the ground; hard to get the press up
the hill to the ends).
>
> For the price, this tool is tempting, though:
> https://jet.com/product/detail/044de210e0e54490b3104f2933a8c4e9?jcmp=pla
:ggl:nj_roc_gen_tools_home_improvement_a2:tools_home_improvement_power_hand_
tools_strippers_crimpers_a2:na:PLA_1062736267_53681764978_pla-575440131752_c
:na:na:na:2PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=1062736267&is_retargeting=true&clic
kid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d8-66d818f2a6db&kclid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d8-6
6d818f2a6db&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrLXXBRCXARIsAIttmRMz6bd20WicKga0R-gwf9V31rSnEMlv
ZaDPr9oFZflf-2UX0q9m0JgaAsNREALw_wcB
>
> Looks like it came from the same factory as the Harbor freight tool they s
ell for $55.
>
> Charlie
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
Art:
There are TRICKS in soldering cables for such things as the Battery &
Alternator.
They are NOT difficult but the procedure is NOT just to solder and get a
total covered flow as you would when doing say a binding post or a Western
Union Splice.
Many will argue that you should NOT solder ANY type or SIZE terminal end.
Not - True... There are Tricks!!!
99.673% of us would never solder a terminal lug under say a 10 AWG.
But soldering larger terminals work GREAT to make both a Physical bond and
an Electrical bond.
OK, so here are the tricks:
1 - The Lug must be the proper size for the wire you are using.
2 - Make sure the Lug and the Wire are CLEAN.
3 - If you are using a stranded wire as opposed to a braided wire <-- Some
welding wires are braided.
Twist the wire end to tighten the bond between strands. Twist them in the
same direction as the wire under the insulation.
4 - Art, I'm lucky as I never had to use crimp tool that was not
hydraulic. So I will not comment on how well your proposed tool will work.
I will say: The snugger the fit between the wire and the lug the better
the crimp.
5 - I use Silver Solder. Silver Solder is STRONGER then Tin/Lead solder.
O! NEVER use Lead Free Solder! It ain't worth the gunpowder to blow it to
hell!
[Side Note: Military contracts specifically state Tin/Lead Solder. 63/37
Eutectic Solder.] Silver Solder has a better conductivity than Tin/Led
solder. AND... There are different types of Silver Solder. You want to
use Silver Bearing Solder - I use 5% Silver. Stronger and Better
Conductivity.
6 - At this point I have to try to dispel some Old Wive's Tails:
a> Soldering a Lug will cause corrosion.
Of course it will if you do not clean off the Flux.
b> Soldering a Lug will crystallize the wire.
Of course it will if you use a Oxy-Acetylene torch.
7 - The Soldering Trick - As I stated before: DO NOT SOLDER THE ENTIRE LUG!
That is VERY TRUE! And the reason for NOT soldering the entire lug is:
It creates what is know as a Hard Point.
No! Not like Hard Points on the F-16.
A Hard Point is a Point where there is NO flexibility.
Why do you think our small wires work so well and last so long.
Flexibility!
When you step up to a Heavier Cable and lock it into a Non-Flexible
condition, Right At the solid mounted point of the Lug and then vibration
moves the cable, the weak point is right where the flexible cable enters
the un-flexible lug.
So - What do you solder? After crimping, you solder the Ring End of the
lug. Just as wire comes out of the lug.
You do not need much. Unfortunately experience helps here. You would like
the Silver Solder to flow half way down the barrel of the lug and STOP!
There is more than enough physical contact with the crimp itself in forming
the connection.
But, the Silver Solder will:
~ Create the Electrical Bond - Above and well beyond that of the crimp
itself.
~ Prevent contamination - Especially at battery terminals. Silver, even
dirty is a better conductor than copper.
Side Note: YES, you can use FLUX. And you better! But, there are three
(3) types of flux that can be used:
1 - RA - Rosin Activated
2 - RMA - Rosin Mildly Activated
3 - AC - Acid Core
Now to scare the bejeebers out of 99.9% of the readers. It does NOT matter
which flux you use.
Wait for it...
Wait for it...
It does Not matter as long as you clean it 100%.
That is the problem. The best flux to use on Silver Solder is AC. But,
not many shops use ultrasonics or vapor degreasing in cleaning their
wires.
Cleaning the Flux off.
There are two (2) types of liquid flux.
~ Water Based and
~ Alcohol based.
Either type can be cleaned with Alcohol. Isopropyl works great AND you can
let the cables and even circuit boards soak in it.
What is the purpose of flux? Sorry Wikipedia is incorrect. It is NOT for
mechanical strength. Well, not the way it reads.
It is to prevent oxidation. Oxidation causes poor electrical and physical
bonding.
Next Trick: Be Careful with open flame. No, not because you are going to
burn the hanger down. Because it causes Oxidation. - Use indirect
heating. - Either use a TIP on the end of the torch or heat the lug from
the backside, the side away from the wire. If you are using the open flame,
keep the flame moving. You will have to practious.
I can guarantee you 1,000 % if done this way the connection will last at
least 22 Years and you will NOT have starting issues. Well, I can't
guarantee the starting issue part, because I do not know the rest of your
system. But, mine has been working for the past 22 Years! I'm sure yours
will too.
Barry
On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I was planning on soldering my alternator cable lugs (4 AWG and 6 AWG
> cable) per http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>
> Then I remembered that I have a cable swaging tool, which I used for my
> rudder cables.
> =8B
>
> Would this tool make acceptable crimps for my cables?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
Hi All,
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you (work sometimes interferes with
my regularly scheduled life). THANKS for the time in sharing your advice!!!
While shopping for Ubiquiti bridge on Amazon I found these power line
extenders:
https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-PowerLINE-1000-802-11ac-Gigabit/dp/B01929V7ZG
/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1525622222&sr=8-3&keywords=Powerline+Networking+with
+wifi
Does anyone have any experience with this type of WIFI extender devices???
It seems that with this design the first unit receives the WIFI signal and
then since it is plugged into a wall outlet it transmits the digital signal
over the copper wiring in the house. Any other units plugged into the house
power supply will then grab that signal and then transmit the WIFI. They
say you can use up to 15 of these units scattered about the house to extend
your WIFI.
My hangar gets it power supply from the house power downstream from the
meter so imagine it would work in the same manner as if the box was plugged
into an outlet in the other room.
If they work it would be much easier to install than the plan A of running a
CAT 5 cable up to the attic and then to the house eve where the WIFI
extender antenna would be located and then the same setup out in the
hangar...PLUS...the master bedroom of the house is a bit far from the router
so the signal coverage is poor so hopefully if I buy three of these devices
I can get better WIFI in the master bedroom as well as getting WIFI out in
the hangar.
Technology is great...IF it works!!!
..
Cheers!!!
Bill Hunter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote
Steel Hangar???
Hi Bill,
With wifi there are so many ways you can do the various links, from
repeaters to hard wired and then wireless bridges to jump the gap. I
personally prefer to hardware
to the bridges. So, going that route looks like this:
Assuming you have a current router that has an open LAN port on it to plug a
hard wired device, you run a cable from the router to under your eaves or
anywhere that you can get line of sight to the hangar. Literally any line of
site should work fine. You plug the cable into the Ubiquiti bridge and run
it to the router. You connect a little power-over-ethernet box into that
cable, and then your router uses a second shorter patch cable to connect to
that POE box as well. That POE box makes things real nice as you don't have
to run a power circuit to the bridge, but it's fed by the CAT5/6 cable by
injecting power inline.
Now you're broadcasting. And these things can go point
to point, or point to multipoint, so if you had other garages, you just need
another one for every site you want to connect into the system.
Here are 2 versions of bridge. You can use whichever frequency band you
want.
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-0000070700985-NanoStation-loco/dp
/B004EHSV4W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361752&sr=8-1&keywords=ubiquiti+nanos
tation+loco+m5
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-NanoStation-locoM2-2-4GHz-Outdoor/dp/B00DC
NRTAG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361777&sr=8-1&keywords=ubiquiti+nanostation
+loco+m2
On the hangar end, you have basically a very similar thing, in that you have
a power injector with a CAT5/6 cable to the wireless bridge device. But, on
the inside of that POE converter, you just connect a patch cable to whatever
router or access point you want to use in the hangar. You do NOT use the
WAN port if you use a router, as this router you would want operating in
wireless access point mode.
There are just hundreds of choices, and I've never bought Ubiquiti for
in-home AP's before, but something like this would work.
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-UAP-AC-Iw-Wireless-Access/dp/B06XZLP
8Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361647&sr=8-2&keywords=unifi+ac+in-wall
As would something like this:
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Lite-UAPACLITEUS/dp/B015PR20GY
/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361714&sr=8-1&keywords=unifi+apac+lite
So just plug the cat5/6 from the AP into the same power injector on the LAN
side, (or if it offers it's own POE adapter just use CAT5/6 to connect them
together) and then you now have a wireless AP in your hangar that's on the
same network as your house network is.
You can set the same SSID if you wish, on the AP, and the same security, and
everything.
I'm a fan of not buying all-in-one wireless routers, because it allows you
to buy a nice little router and then have separate AP's to locate in places
to better cover the house.
Anyway, that's a general picture of what you'd buy and how you'd connect it.
Programming them is pretty easy too.
Tim
On 5/2/2018 11:32 PM, William Hunter wrote:
> Yes I admit this topic is a bit over my headso THANKS for your help.
>
>> It all depends on how much cash you put in, but in general the most
> you could spend would be a couple hundred bucks if you went real deluxe.
>
> 200 bucks is within the threshold of painless pain than digging
>
>> you would then still put a wireless access point in the hangar if you
>> want wifi
>
> Yes preferred based on the need for handheld phones in addition to the
> PC (poor cellphone coverage here so WIFI is the only internet show in
> town)
>
>>They have a range of 10km,
>
> The house does not have any windows that face the hangar so some kind
> of remote antenna under the eve of the roof would be ideal how does
> the WIFI get from the inside router to the rocket antenna?
>
> The hangar is only 50 feet wall to wall
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Tim Olson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2018 9:12 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My
> Remote Steel Hangar???
>
> I set up a pair of these Ubiquiti Loco M5's for a hangar to hangar
> bridge of a few hundred feet at our airport this year. They are very
> easy to configure and work very well.
> As mentioned by Charlie, you would then still put a wireless access
> point in the hangar if you want wifi there (or you could hard wire a
> PC direct).
> They have a range of 10km, so you probably want to lower the power
> level for a short link, but, they should be very reliable and fast.
> You can also buy some versions of wireless AP that can act as a
> wireless client to your home wifi, and mount that on the hangar and
> run the cable to your PC in the hangar.
> There are just so many ways to skin the cat. It all depends on how
> much cash you put in, but in general the most you could spend would be
> a couple hundred bucks if you went real deluxe.
>
> Tim
>
> On 5/2/2018 10:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> There are probably much more qualified people here that can advise,
> but I've done similar stuff.
>
> I'd be doubtful of remoting one of the router's antennas, unless it
> specifically says you can. Most of the new stuff operates at roughly
> 5 times the frequency of our transponders. Dozens of feet of coax at
> those frequencies... not likely to work well.
>
> One way is to wire a 2nd router to your network, positioned where
> the hangar can 'see' it. Place what's known as an 'access point' at
> the hangar, where it can 'see' the router at the house. Wire the
> access point to an additional router in the hangar. The kicker to
> all this is configuring everything to talk to each other. I did it
> years ago, when a neighbor could get DSL but my house was just too
> far away from the DSLAM to work. I now have a bad DSL connection,
> and a decent LTE modem serving my home network, and I've forgotten
> most of the config details.
>
> A better option, Ubiquiti Nanostations, would look functionally
> similar, but would probably be easier to set up. I haven't used
> these, but they come highly recommended by guys on a Linux user
> group I monitor.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&oq=Ubiquiti+nan
> o+stations&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65.7250182j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-
> 8
>
> A bit over $100 for a pair, and you'll still need another router in
> the hangar.
>
> A third option, if the hangar AC power is fed from the house's meter
> and panel, would be a power line networking pair. Note that both the
> transmitter and receiver need to be on the same 'side' of the panel
> (same phase of your AC power). Look here for options.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=powerline+network+extender&oq=power+li
> ne+network&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.11494j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 24AWG airframe wire |
Agree. I had to provide support for the Ray Allen 24AWG wires at the servo to
insure there would be no flexing.
Do you know if there are any reported issues due to Allen's use of the tiny wire?
Stan Sutterfield
>Bob,
>
> From my limited experience, I see no demonstrable benefit to
> working with wire as fine as 24AWG. Certainly the weight is a
> non-issue. 24AWG is downright dainty compared to 20AWG. I think it
> is criminal that Ray Allen uses such fine wire in its servo
> pigtails. To me, using such fine wire is just asking for trouble.
I had conversations with those folk about
that several years running at OSH. Those
conversations that prompted the article I posted at . . .
https://goo.gl/GmNi5Q
The use of 24 AWG in Premier wasn't so
much a weight thing as it was a volume
and to some extent a flexibility issue.
The battle between various systems groups
can approach blood-letting ferocity when
parceling out spaces in the airframe. Of
course, the engine and flight controls
guys are at the top of the hierarchy
with everyone else scrambling for the
'scraps'. My heart bled for the HVAC
guys . . . making ductwork smaller
was never a happy thought.
I had the electrical-avionics group on
the GP180 when it was still a joint
venture between Gates and Piaggio . . .
so been there, done that. We were happy
to get Tefzel wires on the airplane at
the time.
The 'open' spaces between cabin trim
and the aircraft skin on that airplane
was just about an inch . . . There
were structural limitations on just
how big a hole you could put in a former
to run tubes, wires, etc. I wasn't closely
connected to the Premier program at Beech,
but wrestling matches were equally exciting
if not more so.
The 24AWG in airframe bundles was all
assembled on form boards with wires measured
and terminated on automatic machines. It
had very little impact on the line techs.
But I agree, the 24AWG flying leads off
the MAC/RA servos served no customer-friendly
purpose.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Current Limiter Questions |
Folks,
I am installing the current limiters in my plane. The engine is a Lycoming
IO-360 with a primary alternator (the belt driven one that came with the
used engine) and a B&C Aero backup alternator. Here is the photo:
I tied the ends together with a piece of brass buss bar from B&C. Spec says
that it is .025 x .5. Is that sufficient to carry the load for this plane?
My analysis has these loads:
Typical 19 amps, 29 amps maximum
With all devices on, including pitot heat: typical 32 amps, 49 amps maximum
Also, B&C Aero shipped the current limiter holders with locknuts that have
plastic inserts. Are those OK on the engine side of the firewall? I thought
that I should only use all-metal locknuts on the engine side.
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
Haven't used these specifically, but Netgear is a reputable company and this technology
is mature (as evidenced by all the Chinese copies among other things)
and certainly an inexpensive easy
solution. I use another product based on powerline connections and it works over
a significant distance (probably 500+ feet although I haven't actually measured
it).
The main caution is that they have to be connected to the same phase on each end.
Pretty easy to test. If the signal is poor just swap one of the connections
(find an outlet that is connected to
the other phase). If you have anything that generates a lot of powerline noise
(e.g. arc welder) it could be a problem but for typical motors, etc. should work
fine.
I believe that someone else already suggested this as a solution to your dilemma.
Dick Tasker
William Hunter wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Sorry about the delay in getting back to you (work sometimes interferes with
> my regularly scheduled life). THANKS for the time in sharing your advice!!!
>
> While shopping for Ubiquiti bridge on Amazon I found these power line
> extenders:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-PowerLINE-1000-802-11ac-Gigabit/dp/B01929V7ZG
> /ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1525622222&sr=8-3&keywords=Powerline+Networking+with
> +wifi
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this type of WIFI extender devices???
>
> It seems that with this design the first unit receives the WIFI signal and
> then since it is plugged into a wall outlet it transmits the digital signal
> over the copper wiring in the house. Any other units plugged into the house
> power supply will then grab that signal and then transmit the WIFI. They
> say you can use up to 15 of these units scattered about the house to extend
> your WIFI.
>
> My hangar gets it power supply from the house power downstream from the
> meter so imagine it would work in the same manner as if the box was plugged
> into an outlet in the other room.
>
>
> If they work it would be much easier to install than the plan A of running a
> CAT 5 cable up to the attic and then to the house eve where the WIFI
> extender antenna would be located and then the same setup out in the
> hangar...PLUS...the master bedroom of the house is a bit far from the router
> so the signal coverage is poor so hopefully if I buy three of these devices
> I can get better WIFI in the master bedroom as well as getting WIFI out in
> the hangar.
>
> Technology is great...IF it works!!!
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 8:40 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote
> Steel Hangar???
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> With wifi there are so many ways you can do the various links, from
> repeaters to hard wired and then wireless bridges to jump the gap. I
> personally prefer to hardware
> to the bridges. So, going that route looks like this:
>
> Assuming you have a current router that has an open LAN port on it to plug a
> hard wired device, you run a cable from the router to under your eaves or
> anywhere that you can get line of sight to the hangar. Literally any line of
> site should work fine. You plug the cable into the Ubiquiti bridge and run
> it to the router. You connect a little power-over-ethernet box into that
> cable, and then your router uses a second shorter patch cable to connect to
> that POE box as well. That POE box makes things real nice as you don't have
> to run a power circuit to the bridge, but it's fed by the CAT5/6 cable by
> injecting power inline.
>
> Now you're broadcasting. And these things can go point
> to point, or point to multipoint, so if you had other garages, you just need
> another one for every site you want to connect into the system.
>
> Here are 2 versions of bridge. You can use whichever frequency band you
> want.
>
> https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-0000070700985-NanoStation-loco/dp
> /B004EHSV4W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361752&sr=8-1&keywords=ubiquiti+nanos
> tation+loco+m5
>
>
> https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-NanoStation-locoM2-2-4GHz-Outdoor/dp/B00DC
> NRTAG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361777&sr=8-1&keywords=ubiquiti+nanostation
> +loco+m2
>
>
> On the hangar end, you have basically a very similar thing, in that you have
> a power injector with a CAT5/6 cable to the wireless bridge device. But, on
> the inside of that POE converter, you just connect a patch cable to whatever
> router or access point you want to use in the hangar. You do NOT use the
> WAN port if you use a router, as this router you would want operating in
> wireless access point mode.
>
> There are just hundreds of choices, and I've never bought Ubiquiti for
> in-home AP's before, but something like this would work.
>
>
> https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-UAP-AC-Iw-Wireless-Access/dp/B06XZLP
> 8Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361647&sr=8-2&keywords=unifi+ac+in-wall
>
> As would something like this:
> https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Lite-UAPACLITEUS/dp/B015PR20GY
> /ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361714&sr=8-1&keywords=unifi+apac+lite
>
> So just plug the cat5/6 from the AP into the same power injector on the LAN
> side, (or if it offers it's own POE adapter just use CAT5/6 to connect them
> together) and then you now have a wireless AP in your hangar that's on the
> same network as your house network is.
>
> You can set the same SSID if you wish, on the AP, and the same security, and
> everything.
>
> I'm a fan of not buying all-in-one wireless routers, because it allows you
> to buy a nice little router and then have separate AP's to locate in places
> to better cover the house.
>
>
> Anyway, that's a general picture of what you'd buy and how you'd connect it.
> Programming them is pretty easy too.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 5/2/2018 11:32 PM, William Hunter wrote:
>> Yes I admit this topic is a bit over my headso THANKS for your help.
>>
>>> It all depends on how much cash you put in, but in general the most
>> you could spend would be a couple hundred bucks if you went real deluxe.
>>
>> 200 bucks is within the threshold of painless pain than digging
>>
>>> you would then still put a wireless access point in the hangar if you
>>> want wifi
>> Yes preferred based on the need for handheld phones in addition to the
>> PC (poor cellphone coverage here so WIFI is the only internet show in
>> town)
>>
>>> They have a range of 10km,
>> The house does not have any windows that face the hangar so some kind
>> of remote antenna under the eve of the roof would be ideal how does
>> the WIFI get from the inside router to the rocket antenna?
>>
>> The hangar is only 50 feet wall to wall
>>
>> ..
>>
>> Cheers!!!
>>
>> Bill Hunter
>>
>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Tim Olson
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2018 9:12 PM
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My
>> Remote Steel Hangar???
>>
>> I set up a pair of these Ubiquiti Loco M5's for a hangar to hangar
>> bridge of a few hundred feet at our airport this year. They are very
>> easy to configure and work very well.
>> As mentioned by Charlie, you would then still put a wireless access
>> point in the hangar if you want wifi there (or you could hard wire a
>> PC direct).
>> They have a range of 10km, so you probably want to lower the power
>> level for a short link, but, they should be very reliable and fast.
>> You can also buy some versions of wireless AP that can act as a
>> wireless client to your home wifi, and mount that on the hangar and
>> run the cable to your PC in the hangar.
>> There are just so many ways to skin the cat. It all depends on how
>> much cash you put in, but in general the most you could spend would be
>> a couple hundred bucks if you went real deluxe.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On 5/2/2018 10:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>>
>> There are probably much more qualified people here that can advise,
>> but I've done similar stuff.
>>
>> I'd be doubtful of remoting one of the router's antennas, unless it
>> specifically says you can. Most of the new stuff operates at roughly
>> 5 times the frequency of our transponders. Dozens of feet of coax at
>> those frequencies... not likely to work well.
>>
>> One way is to wire a 2nd router to your network, positioned where
>> the hangar can 'see' it. Place what's known as an 'access point' at
>> the hangar, where it can 'see' the router at the house. Wire the
>> access point to an additional router in the hangar. The kicker to
>> all this is configuring everything to talk to each other. I did it
>> years ago, when a neighbor could get DSL but my house was just too
>> far away from the DSLAM to work. I now have a bad DSL connection,
>> and a decent LTE modem serving my home network, and I've forgotten
>> most of the config details.
>>
>> A better option, Ubiquiti Nanostations, would look functionally
>> similar, but would probably be easier to set up. I haven't used
>> these, but they come highly recommended by guys on a Linux user
>> group I monitor.
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&oq=Ubiquiti+nan
>> o+stations&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65.7250182j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-
>> 8
>>
>> A bit over $100 for a pair, and you'll still need another router in
>> the hangar.
>>
>> A third option, if the hangar AC power is fed from the house's meter
>> and panel, would be a power line networking pair. Note that both the
>> transmitter and receiver need to be on the same 'side' of the panel
>> (same phase of your AC power). Look here for options.
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=powerline+network+extender&oq=power+li
>> ne+network&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.11494j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remote Steel |
Hangar???
That's the type device I mentioned as the last option in my earlier post.
Read the reviews, taking with a grain of salt the tech savvy of the
reviewer. And other companies make the same type device; look at those as
well. My earlier post linked a google search for this type device. As I
mentioned, it's likely that both devices will need to be on the same 'side'
of your 220V AC power, if not on the same circuit breaker. You might have
great luck with it, or terrible luck, depending on your wiring situation
and whether you get it set up properly.
If you have a Prime account & can return for free, it might be worth a
shot. But the Ubiquiti stuff, while a bit more work, is almost a certainty
of high quality signal.
Charlie
On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM, William Hunter
wrote:
> billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Sorry about the delay in getting back to you (work sometimes interferes
> with
> my regularly scheduled life). THANKS for the time in sharing your
> advice!!!
>
> While shopping for Ubiquiti bridge on Amazon I found these power line
> extenders:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-PowerLINE-1000-802-
> 11ac-Gigabit/dp/B01929V7ZG
> /ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1525622222&sr=8-3&keywords
> Powerline+Networking+with
> +wifi
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this type of WIFI extender
> devices???
>
> It seems that with this design the first unit receives the WIFI signal an
d
> then since it is plugged into a wall outlet it transmits the digital sign
al
> over the copper wiring in the house. Any other units plugged into the
> house
> power supply will then grab that signal and then transmit the WIFI. They
> say you can use up to 15 of these units scattered about the house to exte
nd
> your WIFI.
>
> My hangar gets it power supply from the house power downstream from the
> meter so imagine it would work in the same manner as if the box was plugg
ed
> into an outlet in the other room.
>
>
> If they work it would be much easier to install than the plan A of runnin
g
> a
> CAT 5 cable up to the attic and then to the house eve where the WIFI
> extender antenna would be located and then the same setup out in the
> hangar...PLUS...the master bedroom of the house is a bit far from the
> router
> so the signal coverage is poor so hopefully if I buy three of these devic
es
> I can get better WIFI in the master bedroom as well as getting WIFI out i
n
> the hangar.
>
> Technology is great...IF it works!!!
>
> ..
>
> Cheers!!!
>
> Bill Hunter
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Olson
> Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 8:40 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My Remo
te
> Steel Hangar???
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> With wifi there are so many ways you can do the various links, from
> repeaters to hard wired and then wireless bridges to jump the gap. I
> personally prefer to hardware
> to the bridges. So, going that route looks like this:
>
> Assuming you have a current router that has an open LAN port on it to plu
g
> a
> hard wired device, you run a cable from the router to under your eaves or
> anywhere that you can get line of sight to the hangar. Literally any line
> of
> site should work fine. You plug the cable into the Ubiquiti bridge and r
un
> it to the router. You connect a little power-over-ethernet box into that
> cable, and then your router uses a second shorter patch cable to connect
to
> that POE box as well. That POE box makes things real nice as you don't
> have
> to run a power circuit to the bridge, but it's fed by the CAT5/6 cable by
> injecting power inline.
>
> Now you're broadcasting. And these things can go point
> to point, or point to multipoint, so if you had other garages, you just
> need
> another one for every site you want to connect into the system.
>
> Here are 2 versions of bridge. You can use whichever frequency band you
> want.
>
> https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-0000070700985-NanoStation-
> loco/dp
> /B004EHSV4W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361752&sr=8-1&
> keywords=ubiquiti+nanos
> tation+loco+m5
>
>
> https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-NanoStation-locoM2-2-
> 4GHz-Outdoor/dp/B00DC
> NRTAG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361777&sr=8-1&keywords
> ubiquiti+nanostation
> +loco+m2
>
>
> On the hangar end, you have basically a very similar thing, in that you
> have
> a power injector with a CAT5/6 cable to the wireless bridge device. But,
> on
> the inside of that POE converter, you just connect a patch cable to
> whatever
> router or access point you want to use in the hangar. You do NOT use the
> WAN port if you use a router, as this router you would want operating in
> wireless access point mode.
>
> There are just hundreds of choices, and I've never bought Ubiquiti for
> in-home AP's before, but something like this would work.
>
>
> https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-UAP-AC-Iw-
> Wireless-Access/dp/B06XZLP
> 8Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361647&sr=8-2&keywords=unifi+ac+
in-wall
>
> As would something like this:
> https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Lite-
> UAPACLITEUS/dp/B015PR20GY
> /ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525361714&sr=8-1&keywords=unifi+apac+l
ite
>
> So just plug the cat5/6 from the AP into the same power injector on the L
AN
> side, (or if it offers it's own POE adapter just use CAT5/6 to connect th
em
> together) and then you now have a wireless AP in your hangar that's on th
e
> same network as your house network is.
>
> You can set the same SSID if you wish, on the AP, and the same security,
> and
> everything.
>
> I'm a fan of not buying all-in-one wireless routers, because it allows yo
u
> to buy a nice little router and then have separate AP's to locate in plac
es
> to better cover the house.
>
>
> Anyway, that's a general picture of what you'd buy and how you'd connect
> it.
> Programming them is pretty easy too.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 5/2/2018 11:32 PM, William Hunter wrote:
> > Yes I admit this topic is a bit over my headso THANKS for your
help.
> >
> >> It all depends on how much cash you put in, but in general the most
> > you could spend would be a couple hundred bucks if you went real deluxe
.
> >
> > 200 bucks is within the threshold of painless pain than diggin
g
> >
> >> you would then still put a wireless access point in the hangar if you
> >> want wifi
> >
> > Yes preferred based on the need for handheld phones in addition to the
> > PC (poor cellphone coverage here so WIFI is the only internet show in
> > town)
> >
> >>They have a range of 10km,
> >
> > The house does not have any windows that face the hangar so some kind
> > of remote antenna under the eve of the roof would be ideal how
does
> > the WIFI get from the inside router to the rocket antenna?
> >
> > The hangar is only 50 feet wall to wall
> >
> > ..
> >
> > Cheers!!!
> >
> > Bill Hunter
> >
> > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > *Tim Olson
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 2, 2018 9:12 PM
> > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: WIFI Repeater/Booster Options For My
> > Remote Steel Hangar???
> >
> > I set up a pair of these Ubiquiti Loco M5's for a hangar to hangar
> > bridge of a few hundred feet at our airport this year. They are very
> > easy to configure and work very well.
> > As mentioned by Charlie, you would then still put a wireless access
> > point in the hangar if you want wifi there (or you could hard wire a
> > PC direct).
> > They have a range of 10km, so you probably want to lower the power
> > level for a short link, but, they should be very reliable and fast.
> > You can also buy some versions of wireless AP that can act as a
> > wireless client to your home wifi, and mount that on the hangar and
> > run the cable to your PC in the hangar.
> > There are just so many ways to skin the cat. It all depends on how
> > much cash you put in, but in general the most you could spend would be
> > a couple hundred bucks if you went real deluxe.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > On 5/2/2018 10:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
> >
> > There are probably much more qualified people here that can advise,
> > but I've done similar stuff.
> >
> > I'd be doubtful of remoting one of the router's antennas, unless it
> > specifically says you can. Most of the new stuff operates at roughl
y
> > 5 times the frequency of our transponders. Dozens of feet of coax a
t
> > those frequencies... not likely to work well.
> >
> > One way is to wire a 2nd router to your network, positioned where
> > the hangar can 'see' it. Place what's known as an 'access point' at
> > the hangar, where it can 'see' the router at the house. Wire the
> > access point to an additional router in the hangar. The kicker to
> > all this is configuring everything to talk to each other. I did it
> > years ago, when a neighbor could get DSL but my house was just too
> > far away from the DSLAM to work. I now have a bad DSL connection,
> > and a decent LTE modem serving my home network, and I've forgotten
> > most of the config details.
> >
> > A better option, Ubiquiti Nanostations, would look functionally
> > similar, but would probably be easier to set up. I haven't used
> > these, but they come highly recommended by guys on a Linux user
> > group I monitor.
> >
> > https://www.google.com/search?q=Ubiquiti+nano+stations&oq=Ubiquiti+
nan
> > o+stations&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65.7250182j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie
=UTF-
> > 8
> >
> > A bit over $100 for a pair, and you'll still need another router in
> > the hangar.
> >
> > A third option, if the hangar AC power is fed from the house's mete
r
> > and panel, would be a power line networking pair. Note that both th
e
> > transmitter and receiver need to be on the same 'side' of the panel
> > (same phase of your AC power). Look here for options.
> >
> > https://www.google.com/search?q=powerline+network+extender&oq=power
+li
> > ne+network&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.11494j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UT
F-8
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Current Limiter Questions |
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
art(at)zemon.name wrote:
> Also, B&C Aero shipped the current limiter holders with locknuts that have plastic
inserts. Are those OK on the engine side of the firewall? I thought that
I should only use all-metal locknuts on the engine side.
See Thermal Properties, bottom half of this page...
http://www.usfastener.com/insertlocknut.html
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479893#479893
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLEN MATEJCEK <fly4grins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cable end crimping |
> When it came time to put terminals on my battery / welding cables, I went t
o the local welding supply house. For ten bucks they would crimp whatever I b
rought in. Or, for the same ten bucks, I could have my very own hammer drive
n, bench mounted cable end crimper. Works fine, lasts long time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimping connectors on AWG 4 and 6 cable |
At 08:18 PM 5/5/2018, you wrote:
>Art:
>
>There are TRICKS in soldering cables for such things as the Battery
>& Alternator.
>They are NOT difficult but the procedure is NOT just to solder and
>get a total covered flow as you would when doing say a binding post
>or a Western Union Splice.
Yes there are . . . and here's my personal favorite . . .
https://goo.gl/ty64fC
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 24AWG airframe wire |
At 10:58 AM 5/6/2018, you wrote:
>Agree. I had to provide support for the Ray Allen 24AWG wires at
>the servo to insure there would be no flexing.
>Do you know if there are any reported issues due to Allen's use of
>the tiny wire?
>Stan Sutterfield
I have not heard of any . . . I 'cooked up' the
cited article based on some conversations with
builders on the List and re-enforced by the
lack of interest by the MAC folks at OSH. If
they're still shipping product with 24AWG
flying leads, then I suspect feedback from the
field has been nil.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Current Limiter Questions |
At 01:09 PM 5/6/2018, you wrote:
>
>
>art(at)zemon.name wrote:
> > Also, B&C Aero shipped the current limiter holders with locknuts
> that have plastic inserts. Are those OK on the engine side of the
> firewall? I thought that I should only use all-metal locknuts on
> the engine side.
The elastic nuts are fine off the engine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Current Limiter Questions |
Bob,
Do you have any opinion on whether the "bus bar" has sufficient current
carrying capacity? I have a gut feeling that it is OK, since there is
plenty of airflow around it but I lack the engineering/practical knowledge
to make an objective determination.
To save you looking for the original message, I used the brass bus bar
supplied by B&C Aero as part of a backup alternator installation kit. The
material is 0.025 x 0.5 x 2 inches. It needs to carry 19 amps typical load
(32 amps with everything on). The maximum (all radios transmitting, both
autopilot servos drawing full current, etc) is 49 amps.
=8B -- Art Z.=8B
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Current Limiter Questions |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The area of your bus bar is 0.025 x 0.5 = 0.0125
0.0125 equals 12,500 circular mills which is slightly bigger than 10 AWG.
Your bus bar should be good for 30 to 40 amps depending on what wire table you
look at. If my calculations and reasoning is correct, your bus bar should be
OK.
You can make your own bus bar out of flattened copper pipe or tube. I would
clean the inside of the tube, then flatten and then solder the inside to keep
out contaminants and prevent corrosion.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479904#479904
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Current Limiter Questions |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 5/6/2018 8:25 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Do you have any opinion on whether the "bus bar" has sufficient
> current carrying capacity? I have a gut feeling that it is OK, since
> there is plenty of airflow around it but I lack the
> engineering/practical knowledge to make an objective determination.
>
> To save you looking for the original message, I used the brass bus bar
> supplied by B&C Aero as part of a backup alternator installation kit.
> The material is 0.025 x 0.5 x 2 inches. It needs to carry 19 amps
> typical load (32 amps with everything on). The maximum (all radios
> transmitting, both autopilot servos drawing full current, etc) is 49 amps.
>
> -- Art Z.
Art,
1st, determine what gauge wire you'd need for 50 amps. Easy to find it
in the book, or the internet, But to save time, it's 8 awg. You can use
the internet to find its cross sectional area (~0.0130 sq in). Then
calculate the cross section if your strap (~0.0125 sq in). Probably
would be fine, but it would be really easy to just add another layer of
the brass strap. Or cheap out like me & flatten a section of copper
tubing to make the strap. :-)
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Current Limiter Questions |
Joe,
Thank you for that calculation. It sounds like thicker material would be
better. I think that I will try flattening a piece of copper tube. Any
excuse to play with a hydraulic press *and* solder in the same day is a
good excuse =F0=9F=98=9C
-- Art Z.
On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 9:43 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> The area of your bus bar is 0.025 x 0.5 = 0.0125
> 0.0125 equals 12,500 circular mills which is slightly bigger than 10 AWG.
> Your bus bar should be good for 30 to 40 amps depending on what wire tabl
e
> you look at. If my calculations and reasoning is correct, your bus bar
> should be OK.
> You can make your own bus bar out of flattened copper pipe or tube. I
> would clean the inside of the tube, then flatten and then solder the insi
de
> to keep out contaminants and prevent corrosion.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Schwenn <peter(at)schwenn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need to increase built-in Voltage Regulator limit |
by .5V
14.2 will charge a LiFePo battery but only about halfway and slowly. I use
3 Shorai LiFePo and an ultra light Micro (4ah) in a Ducati. They all share
the 4.7V requirement. Since high rates of discharge and charge, and very
low loss rate are properties of these cells, it doesn't make sense to use
half the capacity - as it wouldn't for any battery.
[I appreciate the info for EarthLink aircraft LiFePo - they are the best,
with a good controller built-in, and the fullest explanation of all details
of charging. Very expensive except that one is unlikely to destroy their
batteries.]
240-602-6931
On May 3, 2018 04:43, "Peter Schwenn" wrote:
AeroElectrocutors,
Rotax 912iS internal voltage regulator cutoff is 14.2. Lithium-IRON
(LiFePO4) needs 14.7 for full and timely charge.
I can't reasonably modify the internal regulator.
Is there a reasonable way to get 14.7V?
Thanks,
Peter Schwenn
P.S. Why would I want to use a lithium-iron battery? Don't Lithium-Ion
batteries have a host of problems?
In my experience they have just one: if fully discharged (approx: <10
V) they can be difficult and slow to recover.
They don't overheat or catch fire (as LiPo, LiCoO2,...can), They
contain nothing toxic or hazardous. They needn't be charged slowly. They
can supply current rapidly. They don't require a protective or heavy
enclosure.
All battery types differ in their requirements. Lithium-Iron requires
a special charger; for balancing cells, recovery from discharge, and NOT
performing operations other types may require.
240-602-6931
6514 41st Av. U Park MD 20782
Eaa4 & Xenos N32XS @ KCGS
N16XN under construction -
Rivetless skins for Laminar Flow
http://www.schwenn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Allen <billallensworld(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable end crimping |
Following on from that, I need to extend my starter motor feed, - could
anyone point me to a supplier of large but-splice connectors?
Bill Allen
On Sun, 6 May 2018 at 20:39, GLEN MATEJCEK wrote:
> When it came time to put terminals on my battery / welding cables, I went
> to the local welding supply house. For ten bucks they would crimp whatever
> I brought in. Or, for the same ten bucks, I could have my very own hammer
> driven, bench mounted cable end crimper. Works fine, lasts long time.
>
> --
Bill Allen
LongEz160 N99BA FD51
CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable end crimping |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Your local electrical supply house.
Your local car stereo specialist.
Granger.
McMaster-Carr.
Ebay.
A short section of copper tubing.
Charlie
On 5/7/2018 8:09 AM, Bill Allen wrote:
> Following on from that, I need to extend my starter motor feed, -
> could anyone point me to a supplier of large but-splice connectors?
>
> Bill Allen
>
> On Sun, 6 May 2018 at 20:39, GLEN MATEJCEK > wrote:
>
>> When it came time to put terminals on my battery / welding
>> cables, I went to the local welding supply house. For ten bucks
>> they would crimp whatever I brought in. Or, for the same ten
>> bucks, I could have my very own hammer driven, bench mounted
>> cable end crimper. Works fine, lasts long time.
>
> --
> Bill Allen
> LongEz160 N99BA FD51
> CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Allen <billallensworld(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable end crimping |
Thanks, I'll check them out.
On Mon, 7 May 2018 at 16:45, Charlie England wrote:
> Your local electrical supply house.
> Your local car stereo specialist.
> Granger.
> McMaster-Carr.
> Ebay.
> A short section of copper tubing.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On 5/7/2018 8:09 AM, Bill Allen wrote:
>
> Following on from that, I need to extend my starter motor feed, - could
> anyone point me to a supplier of large but-splice connectors?
>
> Bill Allen
>
> On Sun, 6 May 2018 at 20:39, GLEN MATEJCEK wrote:
>
>> When it came time to put terminals on my battery / welding cables, I went
>> to the local welding supply house. For ten bucks they would crimp whatever
>> I brought in. Or, for the same ten bucks, I could have my very own hammer
>> driven, bench mounted cable end crimper. Works fine, lasts long time.
>>
>> --
> Bill Allen
> LongEz160 N99BA FD51
> CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
>
>
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
>
> <#m_3071936470631557684_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
--
Bill Allen
LongEz160 N99BA FD51
CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Small Lithium Battery Precautions |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Lithium batteries have low internal resistance. Unlike Lead Acid batteries, Lithium
batteries, if run down, could accept the full output capacity of the alternator.
Therefore the battery should be sized based on the alternator size.
If two Lithium batteries are installed, one big and one small, the small battery
could be charged at too high of a rate. For instance, a 60 amp alternator
could pump a full 60 amps into a 3 amp-hour Lithium battery if the battery was
completely run down. To prevent that, EarthX recommends putting a diode in
series with the charging circuit. The diode should have a voltage drop of 0.5
(Schottky diode). Lower charging voltage results in less current. Read all
about it in this document by EarthX:
https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479917#479917
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lithium: State of the technology |
| From: | "stephen092" <jonathan.james0007(at)gmail.com> |
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479930#479930
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions |
I don't understand the physics of this, Joe.=C2- If I have a small, drain
ed lithium battery hanging on a 60amp alternator, it could have the full 60
shoved down its throat.=C2- If I hang a larger lithium beside it, the tw
o would share the current in some unknown proportion based on relative inte
rnal and installation resistance.=C2- If I hung 10 lithium batteries on t
hat same alternator, they *might* protect each other to the point of the pi
lot not ever having anything to worry about.
At least, that is how I understand the physics.=C2- I guess what I don't
understand is hw does having a larger lithium hanging in parallel to a smal
ler one result in more risk?
On Monday, May 7, 2018 1:42 PM, user9253 wrote:
Lithium batteries have low internal resistance.=C2- Unlike Lead Acid batt
eries, Lithium batteries, if run down, could accept the full output capacit
y of the alternator.=C2- Therefore the battery should be sized based on t
he alternator size.=C2- If two Lithium batteries are installed, one big a
nd one small, the small battery could be charged at too high of a rate.=C2
- For instance, a 60 amp alternator could pump a full 60 amps into a 3 am
p-hour Lithium battery if the battery was completely run down.=C2- To pre
vent that, EarthX recommends putting a diode in series with the charging ci
rcuit.=C2- The diode should have a voltage drop of 0.5 (Schottky diode).
=C2- Lower charging voltage results in less current.=C2- Read all about
it in this document by EarthX:
https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479917#479917
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable end crimping |
At 08:09 AM 5/7/2018, you wrote:
>Following on from that, I need to extend my starter motor feed, -
>could anyone point me to a supplier of large but-splice connectors?
Why not just replace the wire? How long
is it? Have you considered welding cable
from local supplier . . . they might even
be able to hydraulically apply terminals
for a decent price.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Allen <billallensworld(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable end crimping |
Replacing the wire was a possibility, but it runs so deep and long into the
wing/fuselage that it would be more surgery than just replacing the section
in the engine bay which had the last 4=9D overheat due to a poor con
nection.
I=99m thinking something like this;
https://www.amazon.com/Panduit-SCS2-0-X-Conductor-Standard/dp/B007EWQDSU/re
f=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1525699768&sr=8-19&keywords=%232+wire+butt+
splicesHere
Bill
On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 15:46, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 08:09 AM 5/7/2018, you wrote:
>
> Following on from that, I need to extend my starter motor feed, - could
> anyone point me to a supplier of large but-splice connectors?
>
>
> Why not just replace the wire? How long
> is it? Have you considered welding cable
> from local supplier . . . they might even
> be able to hydraulically apply terminals
> for a decent price.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
Bill Allen
LongEz160 N99BA FD51
CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) |
So continuing this theme on z16 can you explain why the alt has a 16 awg
fuse link and the buss doesnt?
Thanks
Will
On Fri, May 4, 2018, 18:40 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> The redirection link didn't capture the whole
> page . . . here's a 'fix' . . .
>
>
> * Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect major feeders of a
> distribution system against hard faults . . . generally experienced only
> during major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault, were talking
> many times hundreds to thousands of amps supplied by a battery . . . not
> the soft fault precipitated by a failing appliance. *
> https://goo.gl/up9oNB
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions |
I don=99t think Joe intended the large one creates the risk.
I understood the risk was the to the small one, with the possible
misunderstanding by the installer that the presence of the large battery
protects the small, which it doesn=99t.
On May 8, 2018, at 09:39, Ernest Christley > wrote:
I don't understand the physics of this, Joe. If I have a small, drained
lithium battery hanging on a 60amp alternator, it could have the full 60
shoved down its throat. If I hang a larger lithium beside it, the two
would share the current in some unknown proportion based on relative
internal and installation resistance. If I hung 10 lithium batteries on
that same alternator, they *might* protect each other to the point of
the pilot not ever having anything to worry about.
At least, that is how I understand the physics. I guess what I don't
understand is hw does having a larger lithium hanging in parallel to a
smaller one result in more risk?
On Monday, May 7, 2018 1:42 PM, user9253 > wrote:
>
Lithium batteries have low internal resistance. Unlike Lead Acid
batteries, Lithium batteries, if run down, could accept the full output
capacity of the alternator. Therefore the battery should be sized based
on the alternator size. If two Lithium batteries are installed, one big
and one small, the small battery could be charged at too high of a rate.
For instance, a 60 amp alternator could pump a full 60 amps into a 3
amp-hour Lithium battery if the battery was completely run down. To
prevent that, EarthX recommends putting a diode in series with the
charging circuit. The diode should have a voltage drop of 0.5 (Schottky
diode). Lower charging voltage results in less current. Read all about
it in this document by EarthX:
https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479917#479917
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479917#479917>
<===============
AeroElectric-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Aer
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Aer> - MATRONICS WEB
FORUMS -
http://fop ; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI
-http://wiki.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.c=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | speedy11(at)aol.com |
I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one standard ball
tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT.
I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one transponder. The real estate
for mounting is limited since they are all mounted on the fuselage underside
of an RV-8. I should be able to come close to the desired one meter separation
between all antennae.
My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior primer paint at
the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is the mounting screw contact
sufficient to connect with the ground plane? I will, of course, have a doubler
for mounting each antenna.
Thanks
Stan Sutterfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The size of any installed battery must be chosen so that it is capable of accepting
the full output of the alternator. If it is desired to use a smaller Lithium
battery that can not accept the full alternator output, then some means must
be used to limit the charging current to that small battery if it happens
to be almost discharged. You are right that if there are always other aircraft
loads using current, then the full alternator output is no longer available
to charge a battery. I guess I did not word my previous post very well and it
is confusing. Two different sized Lithium batteries in parallel does not result
in more risk. The only risk is when a Lithium battery is charged with more
current than it is rated for. If the battery happens to be completely run down,
then it will accept the full alternator output which might be too great for
the size of battery. One way to limit the charging current is to install a
series Schottky diode. The EarthX document (that I provided a link to in my
original post) explains it a lot more clearly than I can.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479942#479942
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Even if only one Lithium battery is installed in the aircraft, the size of that
battery must be such that it can accept the full alternator output. If the installer
bases the battery size only on its ability to crank the engine without
considering the size of the alternator, then a large alternator might force
too much current into the Lithium battery and damage it. (Fire)
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479945#479945
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions |
Every battery has a certain "internal resistance -IR" build in due to its c
hemistry, connectivity inside, age, temperature, etc., etc. This resistanc
e is variable and very low; in milliohms, but, it is there.
Suppose the smaller of the two batteries has a lower IR than the larger one
=2E The alternator is only looking at the resistance of its load; it reall
y doesn't know that it is a battery, only a load. And, since the smaller i
n this case may have a lower load IR resistance, the majority of the curren
t is headed into the small battery first. At least, until its IR changes a
nd goes higher, then, current is deflected or shared with the other battery
in parallel..... In the case of a much discharged small battery, the curre
nt going in could exceed its capability to cope. . . .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----- Original Message -----
From: Ernest Christley
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Lithium Battery Precautions
I don't understand the physics of this, Joe. If I have a small, drained
lithium battery hanging on a 60amp alternator, it could have the full 60 sh
oved down its throat. If I hang a larger lithium beside it, the two would
share the current in some unknown proportion based on relative internal and
installation resistance. If I hung 10 lithium batteries on that same alte
rnator, they *might* protect each other to the point of the pilot not ever
having anything to worry about.
At least, that is how I understand the physics. I guess what I don't und
erstand is hw does having a larger lithium hanging in parallel to a smaller
one result in more risk?
On Monday, May 7, 2018 1:42 PM, user9253 wrote:
Lithium batteries have low internal resistance. Unlike Lead Acid batteri
es, Lithium batteries, if run down, could accept the full output capacity o
f the alternator. Therefore the battery should be sized based on the alter
nator size. If two Lithium batteries are installed, one big and one small,
the small battery could be charged at too high of a rate. For instance, a
60 amp alternator could pump a full 60 amps into a 3 amp-hour Lithium batt
ery if the battery was completely run down. To prevent that, EarthX recomm
ends putting a diode in series with the charging circuit. The diode should
have a voltage drop of 0.5 (Schottky diode). Lower charging voltage resul
ts in less current. Read all about it in this document by EarthX:
https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design
--------
Joe Gores
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Bus bar materials |
At 10:03 PM 5/6/2018, you wrote:
>Joe,
>
>Thank you for that calculation. It sounds like thicker material
>would be better.
>I think that I will try flattening a piece of copper tube. Any
>excuse to play with
>a hydraulic press and solder in the same day is a good excuse
>
>On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 9:43 PM, user9253
><fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:
><fransew(at)gmail.com>
>The area of your bus bar is 0.025 x 0.5 = 0.0125
>0.0125 equals 12,500 circular mills which is slightly bigger than 10 AWG.
"Circular mills" is a different kind of area. It's simply the diameter of
a conductor in thousandths squared. 10AWG ~ 0.100" diameter
or 100 mills. 100^2 is 10,000 hence the circular mill rating
of 10,000. The real cross section of 10AWG is pi x radius^2
or 0.05 x 0.05 x 3.14 = 0.0078 square inches.
Circular mills are a unit of area PROPORTIONAL to cross
section. The cross section of the cited brass bus
bar is indeed 0.0125 Square Inches which is about
1.5 times the cross section of a 10AWG solid wire . . .
but let us consider another case:
Suppose you have a wire 1.000 inches in diameter (1000 'mils').
The CMA value for this conductor would be 1 million while the
cross section would be 0.5 x 0.5 x 3.14 or 0.785 square inches.
A bar having a cross section of 1.000 x 0.785 would have
an area of 785,000 square mills . . . the same cross section as a
1.000" diameter wire of 1,000,000 CMA.
So when comparing the cross section of the bus with that of
10AWG wire, be aware of the 0.785:1 ratio between square mills
and circular mils.
Another consideration in this thread is the relative conductivity
of the materials being considered. Copper and brass have wide
ranges of RESISTANCE. Resistance is the major driver in a conductor's
ability to (1) transport the energy with acceptable losses and (2)
carry the current while maintaining temperature rise below
acceptable limits.
Silver has a resistance of 1.6 uOhm/cu-cm
Copper is something like of 1.7 uOhm/cu-cm
Aluminum alloys . . . 3 to 6 uOhm/cu-cm
Copper alloys (Brass) . . . . 6 to 10 uOhm/cu-cm
Of all common materials for use as stud-to-stud bar
construction, copper is electrically superior with brass trailing
a distant 4th place.
'Copper equivalent' brass bars may be fabricated
by making the cross section ~4 times that of
the copper one.
Aluminum has been used in production aircraft with
good success and only needs to be 2x fatter
electrically . . . but is thermally superior
for heat conduction . . . so copper and aluminum
are about equal.
The biggest caveat for using aluminum is to strive
for gas-tight electrical joints . . . moisture present
at the interface between differing alloys combined
l with oxygen promotes corrosion which in time can
lead to joint failure. Coating the surfaces with some
robust moisture barrier (DC4 or even WD40) before
making up the joint will impeded moisture/oxygen ingress.
For the instance that germinated this thread, I'll suggest
that an aluminum bar cut from sheet or off the shelf
extrusion is easy to fabricate . . . and the parallel
surfaces go to achieving gas-tight interfaces of the
made up joints. Copper sheet good too. Mashing copper
tube is kinda good if you can really put the mash on
the material between PARALLEL jaws.
If it were my airplane, I'd go for aluminum sheet
with some good 'dope' in the joints. Aluminum is a
whole lot easier to drill!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Page <jpx(at)qenesis.com> |
| Subject: | Authority to solder splice a wire |
AeroElectic Wizards:
I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on
the yoke of my Cessna 172.
This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs
behind the instrument panel to the intercom.
I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink.
The log book entry needs to read something like:
Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide.
I cannot find any section that discussed splicing wires in this manner !
Does someone have a reference within an authoritative document that I
can cite indicating this is an acceptable method of repair ?
Thanks !
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) |
The link protects the 12awg from the battery, in case of a hard fault on
that line. (Think about faults under the cowl, where you'd never see/smell
them in operation.)
The feed to the main bus is protected from the battery by the master
contactor, with the expectation that the pilot would detect the fault and
manually turn off the master. Common FAA-accepted practice in certified
planes.
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:52 AM, William Daniell wrote:
> So continuing this theme on z16 can you explain why the alt has a 16 awg
> fuse link and the buss doesnt?
>
> Thanks
>
> Will
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2018, 18:40 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> The redirection link didn't capture the whole
>> page . . . here's a 'fix' . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect major feeders of a
>> distribution system against hard faults . . . generally experienced only
>> during major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault, were talking
>> many times hundreds to thousands of amps supplied by a battery . . . not
>> the soft fault precipitated by a failing appliance. *
>> https://goo.gl/up9oNB
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions |
The issue wouldn't be that the smaller of two Li batteries would have lower
inherent internal resistance (it shouldn't), but that the smaller might be
fully discharged and the larger be fully charged. In that situation, the
lion's share of charge current would flow to the small battery.
Having said that, it raises one of my gripes with the EarthX products. They
are supposed to have a robust battery management system built in. That
battery management system supposedly controls charging, up to and including
cell balancing. The BMS sits between the charging source and the cells of
the battery. If it's doing its job, *the BMS* should be controlling charge
current into each cell; *not* the generating source. Telling us that a
too-large alternator can damage their battery is admitting that the BMS...
isn't.
Rant mode off....
Charlie
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:34 AM, David Lloyd wrote:
> Every battery has a certain "internal resistance -IR" build in due to its
> chemistry, connectivity inside, age, temperature, etc., etc. This
> resistance is variable and very low; in milliohms, but, it is there.
>
> Suppose the smaller of the two batteries has a lower IR than the larger
> one. The alternator is only looking at the resistance of its load; it
> really doesn't know that it is a battery, only a load. And, since the
> smaller in this case may have a lower load IR resistance, the majority of
> the current is headed into the small battery first. At least, until its IR
> changes and goes higher, then, current is deflected or shared with the
> other battery in parallel..... In the case of a much discharged small
> battery, the current going in could exceed its capability to cope. . . .
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ernest Christley
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 08, 2018 6:39 AM
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Lithium Battery Precautions
>
> I don't understand the physics of this, Joe. If I have a small, drained
> lithium battery hanging on a 60amp alternator, it could have the full 60
> shoved down its throat. If I hang a larger lithium beside it, the two
> would share the current in some unknown proportion based on relative
> internal and installation resistance. If I hung 10 lithium batteries on
> that same alternator, they *might* protect each other to the point of the
> pilot not ever having anything to worry about.
>
> At least, that is how I understand the physics. I guess what I don't
> understand is hw does having a larger lithium hanging in parallel to a
> smaller one result in more risk?
>
>
> On Monday, May 7, 2018 1:42 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
>
> Lithium batteries have low internal resistance. Unlike Lead Acid
> batteries, Lithium batteries, if run down, could accept the full output
> capacity of the alternator. Therefore the battery should be sized based on
> the alternator size. If two Lithium batteries are installed, one big and
> one small, the small battery could be charged at too high of a rate. For
> instance, a 60 amp alternator could pump a full 60 amps into a 3 amp-hour
> Lithium battery if the battery was completely run down. To prevent that,
> EarthX recommends putting a diode in series with the charging circuit. The
> diode should have a voltage drop of 0.5 (Schottky diode). Lower charging
> voltage results in less current. Read all about it in this document by
> EarthX:
> https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
>
> <#m_106377303924725087_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
At 10:04 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one
>standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT.
>I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one
>transponder. The real estate for mounting is limited since they are
>all mounted on the fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able
>to come close to the desired one meter separation between all antennae.
>My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior
>primer paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is
>the mounting screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground
>plane? I will, of course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna.
>Thanks
>Stan Sutterfield
https://goo.gl/skAS8R
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) |
Charlie thanks
So it wouldn't be "wrong" to put a fuselink in the line to the buss?
WIll
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:59 AM, Charlie England
wrote:
> The link protects the 12awg from the battery, in case of a hard fault on
> that line. (Think about faults under the cowl, where you'd never see/smell
> them in operation.)
> The feed to the main bus is protected from the battery by the master
> contactor, with the expectation that the pilot would detect the fault and
> manually turn off the master. Common FAA-accepted practice in certified
> planes.
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:52 AM, William Daniell <
> wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So continuing this theme on z16 can you explain why the alt has a 16 awg
>> fuse link and the buss doesnt?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Will
>>
>> On Fri, May 4, 2018, 18:40 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
>> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The redirection link didn't capture the whole
>>> page . . . here's a 'fix' . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> * Fusible links in vehicles are expected to protect major feeders of
>>> a distribution system against hard faults . . . generally experienced
>>> only during major disassembly of the vehicle. By hard fault, were
>>> talking many times hundreds to thousands of amps supplied by a battery .
>>> . . not the soft fault precipitated by a failing appliance. *
>>> https://goo.gl/up9oNB
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
Le 08/05/2018 17:16, user9253 a crit:
> If it is desired to use a smaller Lithium battery that can not accept the full
alternator output, then some means must be used to limit the charging current
to that small battery if it happens to be almost discharged.
Hi all,
Isn't that what the Battery Management System is for ?
I would have thought that every Lithium battery *must* have such a
device to monitor and manage the charging of each and every element in
the battery, and to prevent overcharging.
The alternator doesn't directly "see" the battery internal resistance,
but rather the BMS interface.
Last year when I ordered two EarthX batteries for installation on a new
aircraft, the - knowledgeable - sales person did not express any concern
over the type or rating of the alternator.
Bottom line, is this a real issue ?
Just wondering,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
I saw a pic of Dave Anders' RV4 with two Shorai bats, sharing a BMS. Anyone on
the list using Shorai stuff?
If you are, please tell us your engine displacement and product part #'s, and briefly
your electrical architecture. Hours flown and how it's all working out
would be helpful as well.
Thanks,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479956#479956
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
In a recent thread, TyWraps were discussed as a solution
for wire bundle management. We had some discussions on
these products about ten years back . . .
In years since, I've had occasion to throw out stocks
of unused TyWraps given that they had become brittle with
age . . . the buckles would snap off in the ordinary process
of applying the wrap.
Be aware that not all that is plastic is Nylon 6,6. Evolved
over the last 80+ years by DuPont. This material and its
close cousins have found their way into all manner of component,
many of which perform in under-hood environment of automobiles.
When purchasing these critters, look for a 6-6, 6/6, 66 or even
a 6,6 description of the nylon. The last time I was in Harbor
Freight, many of their offerings bore such markings . . . but
some did not . . . especially the smaller ones in assorted colors.
All the wraps I pitched a few years ago were smaller sizes
in various colors. Some had been in my Dad's inventory for untold
years and were literally falling apart.
My favorite bundle security uses Dacron flat lace applied
like so . . .
https://goo.gl/H3z1EQ
Did a job for a rancher friend yesterday where the wiring was
installed and initially held in place with some TyWraps he had
laying around . . . after it was up and running, I dug out the
roll of flat lace and installed a wrap adjacent to each of the
TyWraps. Those plastic thingies MIGHT fall off in a few years
but I'm betting the string will still be on duty.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z 16 OVP fuselink question (CORRECTION) |
At 12:13 PM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>Charlie thanks
>
>So it wouldn't be "wrong" to put a fuselink in the line to the buss?
This is a crew controlled feed from the battery . . .
not expected to be 'hot' on approach-to-the-rocks.
If contact with the ground is un-controlled . . .
then the whole system is likely to be hot . . .
existence of circuit protection probably has
no useful effect on the outcome.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Authority to solder splice a wire |
At 10:55 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>
>AeroElectic Wizards:
>
>I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on
>the yoke of my Cessna 172.
>This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs
>behind the instrument panel to the intercom.
>
>I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink.
>
>The log book entry needs to read something like:
>Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide.
There are many maintenance and/or repair activities that
don't necessarily need to be logged. The actions you described
have no safety implications. If carried out with good craftsmanship,
I wouldn't bother to record it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
| From: | "speedy11" <speedy11(at)aol.com> |
Perfect. Thanks, Bob.
Stan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479961#479961
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small Lithium Battery Precautions |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
My posts above were based upon my interpretation of an EarthX document, which can
be found here:
https://earthxbatteries.com/dual-bus-lithium-battery-design
_
EarthX also has some interesting FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) here:
https://earthxbatteries.com/faqs
_
EarthX lists the 3 main considerations when choosing a battery for your aircraft:
1. Will it crank the engine?
2. Is its capacity enough to supply power after the alternator fails?
3. Is it sized for the alternator?
https://earthxbatteries.com/product-category/experimental-aircraft
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479962#479962
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Aaron <aaaron(at)tvp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS? |
For what its worth, I had a Shorai, lasted 6 months of light duty use then started
bulging and died. Since it failed more than 12 months after purchase, the
vendor would not replace it. I bought an EarthX and it has been great. I wouldn't
touch another Shorai.
Allan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of jonlaury
Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2018 3:38 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anybody using Shorai batteries/BMS?
-->
I saw a pic of Dave Anders' RV4 with two Shorai bats, sharing a BMS. Anyone on
the list using Shorai stuff?
If you are, please tell us your engine displacement and product part #'s, and briefly
your electrical architecture. Hours flown and how it's all working out
would be helpful as well.
Thanks,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479956#479956
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Bus bar materials |
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> If it were my airplane, I'd go for aluminum sheet
> with some good 'dope' in the joints. Aluminum is a
> whole lot easier to drill!
>
=8B
Bob=8B,
=8BThat's good to know. I have a whole boatload of scrap aluminum.
=8B
When you say "dope," do you mean dielectric grease like this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-3-3-oz-Technician-Grade-Dielectric-Grease-0
5113/206843029
?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to
keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Page <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
Here are three 0.25"-width versions at Digi-Key for various wire gauges:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/42100-1/A27935CT-ND/456897
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/60249-1/A27929CT-ND/456893
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/1-1393310-8/A117815CT-ND/4729959
There are probably others; you just have to scrutinize the photos and drawings.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Page <jpx(at)qenesis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Authority to solder splice a wire |
Bob,
In Canada, most shops log pretty much everything, and the shop signing
off the annual plans to include the intercom wiring repair in the list
of things accomplished. I am happy they let me do the work and just
inspect it, since that saves me a lot of $$$.
As much as anything, I am surprised that there is no mention of
splicing a wire with solder and shrink wrap in AC4313-1B. It is
commonly done, so it must be blessed by the government somewhere ?
Thanks,
Jeff
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Authority to solder splice a wire
>
> At 10:55 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>>
>> AeroElectic Wizards:
>>
>> I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on
>> the yoke of my Cessna 172.
>> This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs
>> behind the instrument panel to the intercom.
>>
>> I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink.
>>
>> The log book entry needs to read something like:
>> Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide.
>
> There are many maintenance and/or repair activities that
> don't necessarily need to be logged. The actions you described
> have no safety implications. If carried out with good craftsmanship,
> I wouldn't bother to record it.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bus bar materials |
Art:
The term is Electrical DUCK Grease; it is just the opposite of Dielectric
Grease.
It is a CONDUCTOR grease which usually has very fine copper or silver dust
in it.
I doubt if silver is available today as the cost would be ridiculously high
.
It can be obtained at industrial electrical supply houses.
It is used on 'BUGS' for high voltage and high current connections in the
industrial electronic world.
It also works GREAT on Aluminum to Aluminum connections such as sliding
tubes of antennas.
https://www.voltlighting.com/outdoor-landscape-lighting-grease/p/VAC-GREASE
1?gdffi=011cd79751a042aeb028091a0a1ac126&gdfms=37FE4BE861D045F3BD53FEFE
586CE951&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o1&scid=scplpVAC-G
REASE1&sc_intid=VAC-GREASE1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1M77sOr42gIVSwSRCh11BAXwE
AQYASABEgLKkfD_BwE
BUT! An easy trick would be to make your CLEAN bolt together connection
and then spray it with chromate paint. If you keep the moisture AND oxygen
off the connection you reduce the chance of corrosion GREATLY!
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:13 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>> If it were my airplane, I'd go for aluminum sheet
>> with some good 'dope' in the joints. Aluminum is a
>> whole lot easier to drill!
>>
> =8B
> Bob=8B,
>
> =8BThat's good to know. I have a whole boatload of scrap aluminum.
=8B
>
> When you say "dope," do you mean dielectric grease like this:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-3-3-oz-Technician-
> Grade-Dielectric-Grease-05113/206843029 ?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, wha
t
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TyWraps redux |
Good point Bob...
In general BLACK Ty-Wraps are UV and Ozone proof. The white ones become
brittle with time and exposure.
SOME - not all colored Ty-Wraps may also work.
One might even find notes on the Ty-Wrap packaging as to UV & Ozone
resistant.
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> In a recent thread, TyWraps were discussed as a solution
> for wire bundle management. We had some discussions on
> these products about ten years back . . .
>
> In years since, I've had occasion to throw out stocks
> of unused TyWraps given that they had become brittle with
> age . . . the buckles would snap off in the ordinary process
> of applying the wrap.
>
> Be aware that not all that is plastic is Nylon 6,6. Evolved
> over the last 80+ years by DuPont. This material and its
> close cousins have found their way into all manner of component,
> many of which perform in under-hood environment of automobiles.
>
> When purchasing these critters, look for a 6-6, 6/6, 66 or even
> a 6,6 description of the nylon. The last time I was in Harbor
> Freight, many of their offerings bore such markings . . . but
> some did not . . . especially the smaller ones in assorted colors.
>
> All the wraps I pitched a few years ago were smaller sizes
> in various colors. Some had been in my Dad's inventory for untold
> years and were literally falling apart.
>
> My favorite bundle security uses Dacron flat lace applied
> like so . . .
>
> https://goo.gl/H3z1EQ
>
> Did a job for a rancher friend yesterday where the wiring was
> installed and initially held in place with some TyWraps he had
> laying around . . . after it was up and running, I dug out the
> roll of flat lace and installed a wrap adjacent to each of the
> TyWraps. Those plastic thingies MIGHT fall off in a few years
> but I'm betting the string will still be on duty.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Authority to solder splice a wire |
At 02:00 AM 5/9/2018, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>In Canada, most shops log pretty much everything, and the shop signing
>off the annual plans to include the intercom wiring repair in the list
>of things accomplished. I am happy they let me do the work and just
>inspect it, since that saves me a lot of $$$.
>
>As much as anything, I am surprised that there is no mention of
>splicing a wire with solder and shrink wrap in AC4313-1B. It is
>commonly done, so it must be blessed by the government somewhere ?
They haven't gotten around to that yet . . . but
probably will. When not specifically covered in AC43-13
it may suffice to say, "Spliced and insulated wires per
shop practice."
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Authority to solder splice a wire |
Jeff
Refer to paragraph 19.4 of NASA technical standard NASA-STD 8739.4A, WORKMANSHIP
STANDARD FOR CRIMPING, INTERCONNECTING CABLES, HARNESSES, AND WIRING
That should be acceptable to the Minister.
On May 9, 2018, at 03:00, Jeff Page wrote:
Bob,
In Canada, most shops log pretty much everything, and the shop signing off the
annual plans to include the intercom wiring repair in the list of things accomplished.
I am happy they let me do the work and just inspect it, since that saves
me a lot of $$$.
As much as anything, I am surprised that there is no mention of splicing a wire
with solder and shrink wrap in AC4313-1B. It is commonly done, so it must be
blessed by the government somewhere ?
Thanks,
Jeff
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Authority to solder splice a wire
>
> At 10:55 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>>
>> AeroElectic Wizards:
>>
>> I replaced the coiled wired that connects the push to talk switch on
>> the yoke of my Cessna 172.
>> This meant splicing the coiled wire with the regular wire that runs
>> behind the instrument panel to the intercom.
>>
>> I twisted and soldered the wires and covered them with heat shrink.
>>
>> The log book entry needs to read something like:
>> Push to talk wiring replaced, using AC4313-1B section X-XX as a guide.
>
> There are many maintenance and/or repair activities that
> don't necessarily need to be logged. The actions you described
> have no safety implications. If carried out with good craftsmanship,
> I wouldn't bother to record it.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals |
I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box somewhere that
I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't know better, about 45
years ago. I have no desire to locate them again. :-) Similar products I
found talk about 'low insertion force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me
question whether they will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and
corrosion if they remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you
need a dedicated crimper for those.
Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs indicate
that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can slip a standard
Faston in the body of your widget, and you properly support the wire
leaving the widget, there's an unmeasurably small risk of one coming off,
regardless of the 'latch' feature.
FWIW...
Charlie
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.
> aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
> They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to
> keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.
>
>
> Thanks,
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what
> am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
I'm not sure who asked the question...
You DO NOT remove paint from the exterior of the plane.
You do need a GOOD electrical connection between the antenna and the plane
to create a Ground Plane.
I have found many antennas be painted or powder coated which
reduces/elininates the electrical contact area.
My trick is to make sure the Mounting Hole Area of the antenna makes a good
electrical ground connection with the Screws.
To do this I remove the paint INSIDE of the screw counter-sink. I do this
with a 100 deg counter-sink tool.
The next part of the trick to to make the through hole on the Plane a nice
small tight fit so the screw has to be SCREWED into/through the skin.
As for the interior primer... It is a Paint primer or Chem-Film Primer?
Paint - YES, it has to be removed ONLY in the area around screws. NOT the
entire area.
Chem-Film - NO, it does not have to be remove UNLESS it is VERY dark in
color. Darker Chem-Film can be insulation.
Not sure which level you have? REMOVE IT! Using Scotch Brite. Again, you
only need the area around the screw for the diameter of the washer/lock
washer.
You can do a simple check to the quality of your work by taking a
resistance reading from the antenna to a remote part of the plane. ZERO
OHMS is what you are looking for.
After you are all done with the mounting and testing you can paint over the
external screw heads sealing off moisture.
As for the area around the external antenna mount... Do what the
manufacture recommends - gasket and/or RTV.
I like using RTV as a sealant even with a gasket.
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:04 AM 5/8/2018, you wrote:
>
> I am installing two new antennae - one Comant 122 for comm and one
> standard ball tipped 3 inch transponder=type for an Echo UAT.
> I am retaining two older antennae - one comm and one transponder. The
> real estate for mounting is limited since they are all mounted on the
> fuselage underside of an RV-8. I should be able to come close to the
> desired one meter separation between all antennae.
> My question is - do I need to remove exterior paint and interior primer
> paint at the mounting location of the new antennae? Or is the mounting
> screw contact sufficient to connect with the ground plane? I will, of
> course, have a doubler for mounting each antenna.
> Thanks
> Stan Sutterfield
>
>
> https://goo.gl/skAS8R
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Antennae |
Barry, default text size setting should be normal, yours is set to large.
Normal is fine for most of us and for anyone that needs larger can do so at
their end.
April 25, 2018 - May 09, 2018
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-oi