AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-or
November 14, 2018 - December 29, 2018
t your expensive electronics by playing around with varying
>these outputs
=94-
>John
>
>Sent from my iPad
>=C2- =C2- =C2-----x--O--x----
>On 14 Nov 2018, at 3:11 am, Charlie England
>wrot
e:
>
>
>
>Thanks, to Richard, Earnest and Bob=2E Looks like I need to go a
head &
>pull the trigger=2E I'll report when it comes in=2E
>
> Charlie
>
> On 11/13/2018 7:47 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
>
> Charlie, this is t
he one I bought on Amazon=2E =2E=C2-
>https://www=2Eamazon=2Ecom/Dr-mete
r-Single-Output-Switchable-Alligator-included/dp/B07D4FQ4CP/ref=sr_1_17?i
e=UTF8&qid=1542159852&sr=8-17&keywords=bench+power+supply
>
> Ri
ck Girard
>On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:29 PM Brian Lester
>wrote:
>
>A bit more expensive but I got this from amazon
=2E DC Power Supply
>Variable,0-30 V / 0-10 A Eventek KPS3010D Adjustable S
witching
>Regulated Power Supply Digital
> https://www=2Eamazon=2Ecom/dp/B0
73TW8H2S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qY16BbT9P9Y2P
>
>But honestly the stuff on e
Bay looks about the same at a better price=2E
> -Brian
>On Tue, Nov 13, 2
018 at 6:44 PM Charlie England
>wrote:
>
> Than
ks, Ernest=2E Anyone else?
>On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:18 PM Ernest Christ
ley
>wrote:
>
>Looks very much like the onei bough
t from mpja=2Ecom=2E mine works
>perfectly=2E
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on
Android
>
>On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Charlie England
>wrote: Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerin
gs for
>cheap lab supplies? Example below=2E I tried searching my old AEC e
mails,
>but the most recent reference I found was for a much more expensive
>model=2E It'll get minimal use; just final checkout of my project's
>wir
ing and then rare uses after that, so don't want to spend
>$hundreds=2E=C2
- 0-30v/0-10a bench supply
>
> Thanks,
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in
the light=2E=9D =C2-=C2-Groucho
>Marx
>
>
>
>
>| | Vir
us-free=2E www=2Eavast=2Ecom |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
I have been thinking of getting one of these as well but a 30V 20A model. I
have used one before but I'm not entirely sure how they work. What is the
function on the amperage dial? In what situation would you set it lower
than the maximum output of the power supply?
On Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 04:06 John Tipton What=99s wrong with a =98cb=99 type radio power supply,
13.8 volts, 3-5 amps,
> why do you need something giving variable volts/amps, are you really goin
g
> to test your expensive electronics by playing around with varying these
> outputs =94-
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ----x--O--x----
>
> On 14 Nov 2018, at 3:11 am, Charlie England wrote:
>
> Thanks, to Richard, Earnest and Bob. Looks like I need to go ahead & pull
> the trigger. I'll report when it comes in.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 11/13/2018 7:47 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
> Charlie, this is the one I bought on Amazon. .
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Dr-meter-Single-Output-Switchable-Alligator-includ
ed/dp/B07D4FQ4CP/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1542159852&sr=8-17&keyword
s=bench+power+supply
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:29 PM Brian Lester
> wrote:
>
>> A bit more expensive but I got this from amazon. DC Power Supply
>> Variable,0-30 V / 0-10 A Eventek KPS3010D Adjustable Switching Regulated
>> Power Supply Digital
>> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073TW8H2S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qY16BbT9P9Y2P
>>
>> But honestly the stuff on eBay looks about the same at a better price.
>> -Brian
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:44 PM Charlie England
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Ernest. Anyone else?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:18 PM Ernest Christley
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looks very much like the onei bought from mpja.com. mine works
>>>> perfectly.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Charlie England
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerings for cheap lab
>>>> supplies? Example below. I tried searching my old AEC emails, but the
most
>>>> recent reference I found was for a much more expensive model. It'll ge
t
>>>> minimal use; just final checkout of my project's wiring and then rare
uses
>>>> after that, so don't want to spend $hundreds.
>>>> 0-30v/0-10a bench supply
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>>
>>>>
>
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
> Virus-free
.
> www.avast.com
>
> <#m_-7689733828043912502_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
For my purposes at the moment, the current setting would be used to
minimize risk of catastrophic failure in a device that's polarity
sensitive, such as electronics, or possibly external stuff around a DC
motor that might get hooked up backward. The way I'd use it is to set
voltage to zero, and current to some relatively low percentage of a
given device's max current draw. Apply power to the device, and slowly
increase voltage while monitoring current and the device 'waking up'.
The current limiter may well reduce the voltage below set point, to
control current, if there's an 'issue'. If everything's nominal at
normal 12-14V, then current limit can be raised to the device's normal
operating current to check operation.
I've used simple variable voltage supplies for decades when
troubleshooting or checking devices (mostly audio gear), but without the
current limiter, the operator (me) becomes the detector/limiter, and may
not be perceptive or quick-reacting enough to avoid damage. I'm getting
lazy in my slower response time old age. :-)
If you decide to roll your own LED landing lights, for example, a
variable voltage/current supply could conceivably be used to experiment
with various high power LEDs before buying a dedicated LED driver board.
As I mentioned earlier, the only thing I can think of that would be
tougher to test this way would be electronics with 'switcher' power
supplies. The switcher will try to draw as much current as it needs, to
make full output, and may tend to be either full off (inadequate supply
current) or full on, so the current/voltage monitoring technique may
prove meaningless with some of those devices. Even with those devices,
we can at least check that we have polarity correct and on the correct
pin(s).
Charlie
On 11/14/2018 9:55 AM, Sebastien wrote:
> I have been thinking of getting one of these as well but a 30V 20A
> model. I have used one before but I'm not entirely sure how they work.
> What is the function on the amperage dial? In what situation would you
> set it lower than the maximum output of the power supply?
>
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 04:06 John Tipton wrote:
>
> Whats wrong with a cb type radio power supply, 13.8 volts, 3-5
> amps, why do you need something giving variable volts/amps, are
> you really going to test your expensive electronics by playing
> around with varying these outputs -
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ----x--O--x----
>
> On 14 Nov 2018, at 3:11 am, Charlie England > wrote:
>
>> Thanks, to Richard, Earnest and Bob. Looks like I need to go
>> ahead & pull the trigger. I'll report when it comes in.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> On 11/13/2018 7:47 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>>> Charlie, this is the one I bought on Amazon. .
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Dr-meter-Single-Output-Switchable-Alligator-included/dp/B07D4FQ4CP/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1542159852&sr=8-17&keywords=bench+power+supply
>>>
>>> Rick Girard
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:29 PM Brian Lester
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> A bit more expensive but I got this from amazon. DC Power
>>> Supply Variable,0-30 V / 0-10 A Eventek KPS3010D Adjustable
>>> Switching Regulated Power Supply Digital
>>> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073TW8H2S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qY16BbT9P9Y2P
>>>
>>> But honestly the stuff on eBay looks about the same at a
>>> better price.
>>> -Brian
>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:44 PM Charlie England
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Ernest. Anyone else?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:18 PM Ernest Christley
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Looks very much like the onei bought from mpja.com
>>> <http://mpja.com>. mine works perfectly.
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Charlie England
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> Anyone have experience with the recent ebay
>>> offerings for cheap lab supplies? Example below.
>>> I tried searching my old AEC emails, but the
>>> most recent reference I found was for a much
>>> more expensive model. It'll get minimal use;
>>> just final checkout of my project's wiring and
>>> then rare uses after that, so don't want to
>>> spend $hundreds.
>>> 0-30v/0-10a bench supply
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
>>> Groucho Marx
>>> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>> <#m_-7689733828043912502_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
Yes. You can turn the current down so that no matter the voltage, you only
get a set amount of current.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Sebastien wrote: I
have been thinking of getting one of these as well but a 30V 20A model. I h
ave used one before but I'm not entirely sure how they work. What is the fu
nction on the amperage dial? In what situation would you set it lower than
the maximum output of the power supply?
On Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 04:06 John Tipton wrote:
Thanks, to Richard, Earnest and Bob. Looks like I need to go ahead & pull
the trigger. I'll report when it comes in.
Charlie
On 11/13/2018 7:47 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
Charlie, this is the one I bought on Amazon. .=C2-
https://www.amazon.com/Dr-meter-Single-Output-Switchable-Alligator-includ
ed/dp/B07D4FQ4CP/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1542159852&sr=8-17&keyword
s=bench+power+supply
Rick Girard
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:29 PM Brian Lester wro
te:
A bit more expensive but I got this from amazon. DC Power Supply Variable,0
-30 V / 0-10 A Eventek KPS3010D Adjustable Switching Regulated Power Supply
Digital
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073TW8H2S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qY16BbT9P9Y2P
But honestly the stuff on eBay looks about the same at a better price.
-Brian
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:44 PM Charlie England wr
ote:
Thanks, Ernest. Anyone else?
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:18 PM Ernest Christley wro
te:
Looks very much like the onei bought from mpja.com. mine works perfectly.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Charlie England w
rote: Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerings for cheap l
ab supplies? Example below. I tried searching my old AEC emails, but the mo
st recent reference I found was for a much more expensive model. It'll get
minimal use; just final checkout of my project's wiring and then rare uses
after that, so don't want to spend $hundreds.=C2- 0-30v/0-10a bench supp
ly
Thanks,
Charlie
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
=C2-=C2-Groucho Marx
| | Virus-free. www.avast.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
| From: | "MMiller" <mmill(at)optonline.net> |
Charlie, I bought two of these units back in June from a different Ebay vendor.
The only issue I had was an intermittent connection in the line cord at P/S
end of one unit. It uses a standard computer line cord, so I just replaced it
with one I had laying around. It works as advertised and its a good value.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485014#485014
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 11/14/2018 12:11 PM, MMiller wrote:
>
> Charlie, I bought two of these units back in June from a different Ebay vendor.
The only issue I had was an intermittent connection in the line cord at P/S
end of one unit. It uses a standard computer line cord, so I just replaced it
with one I had laying around. It works as advertised and its a good value.
>
Sounds good.
Thanks for the 'PIREP'; I've got one on the way.
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim" <jimkale(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
I am careful about buying electronic equipment like battery chargers and power
supplies.
The very inexpensive stuff Is built from inexpensive parts which may fail fairly
quickly.
It this kind of equipment fails in the max voltage mode, it can FRY some very expensive
equipment being powered or tested in short order. A battery charger
that fails in an over voltage mode can COOK a very expensive battery quickly.
I have wondered the streets of some of the third world countries and seen some
of the "SURPLUS" electronic parts that often go into cheap test equipment. This
was a real eye opener experience.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of MMiller
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 12:12 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cheap bench supply?
Charlie, I bought two of these units back in June from a different Ebay vendor.
The only issue I had was an intermittent connection in the line cord at P/S
end of one unit. It uses a standard computer line cord, so I just replaced it
with one I had laying around. It works as advertised and its a good value.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485014#485014
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
The current adjustment sets an upper bound on the current the unit will supply.
If you try to draw more current than that, the output voltage falls far enough
that the current stays at the limit you set.
You can use PSUs with a current limiting facility in either of two modes. Either
constant voltage, which is what is normally used, or constant current mode.
There are not many circuits that need a constant current drive, but I used to
use one for charging NiCd batteries (in the olden days) where the current would
be set at (say) 5x the one hour cell capacity and I could charge four or more
cells in series. The terminal voltage would start low, and automatically rise
as the cells charged.
>>In what situation would you set it lower than the maximum output of the power
supply?
When you have a circuit that needs a constant current supply, or, as someone suggested,
when you have a circuit which, should a fault develop, you want to limit
the maximum power your supply can generate.
On Nov 14, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Sebastien wrote:
I have been thinking of getting one of these as well but a 30V 20A model. I have
used one before but I'm not entirely sure how they work. What is the function
on the amperage dial? In what situation would you set it lower than the maximum
output of the power supply?
On Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 04:06 John Tipton wrote:
> Thanks, to Richard, Earnest and Bob. Looks like I need to go ahead & pull the
trigger. I'll report when it comes in.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 11/13/2018 7:47 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>> Charlie, this is the one I bought on Amazon. .
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Dr-meter-Single-Output-Switchable-Alligator-included/dp/B07D4FQ4CP/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1542159852&sr=8-17&keywords=bench+power+supply
>>
>> Rick Girard
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:29 PM Brian Lester wrote:
>> A bit more expensive but I got this from amazon. DC Power Supply Variable,0-30
V / 0-10 A Eventek KPS3010D Adjustable Switching Regulated Power Supply Digital
>> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073TW8H2S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qY16BbT9P9Y2P
>>
>> But honestly the stuff on eBay looks about the same at a better price.
>> -Brian
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:44 PM Charlie England wrote:
>> Thanks, Ernest. Anyone else?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:18 PM Ernest Christley wrote:
>> Looks very much like the onei bought from mpja.com. mine works perfectly.
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Charlie England
>> wrote:
>> Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerings for cheap lab supplies?
Example below. I tried searching my old AEC emails, but the most recent reference
I found was for a much more expensive model. It'll get minimal use; just
final checkout of my project's wiring and then rare uses after that, so don't
want to spend $hundreds.
>> 0-30v/0-10a bench supply
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> --
>> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho Marx
>>
>>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
At 04:00 PM 11/14/2018, you wrote:
>
>I am careful about buying electronic equipment like battery chargers
>and power supplies.
>
>The very inexpensive stuff Is built from inexpensive parts which may
>fail fairly quickly.
>
>It this kind of equipment fails in the max voltage mode, it can FRY
>some very expensive equipment being powered or tested in short
>order. A battery charger that fails in an over voltage mode can
>COOK a very expensive battery quickly.
>
>I have wondered the streets of some of the third world countries and
>seen some of the "SURPLUS" electronic parts that often go into cheap
>test equipment. This was a real eye opener experience.
I can't speak from any documentable source
but I believe your concerns are becoming
less significant if not non-existant.
The ability of industries to fabricate
and utilize perfectly acceptable parts
has been falling exponentially for some
time. The handling $COST$ of processing
sub-standard parts into products can
easily exceed the cost of 'good' parts.
Ergo, for the vast majority of examples
on the market, I've found that the offerings
are of good value. Out here in the
hinterlands of western Kansas, my
FIRST choice for on-line shopping is
eBay, not necessarily because it has
proven to be 'better' than any other
source . . . only adequate to my needs.
Vendors with high percentages of satisfactory
customers over hundreds if not thousands
of transactions have proven to be very
low if not zero risk.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming |
Soon!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Writing your thesis paper |
| From: | "stevencarter" <toressjohn(at)yahoo.com> |
Essay writing and thesis writing are of different level. But, thesis cannot be
written as an essay. It needs good research and much data to support the findings.
So, it takes much time to complete writing. The results you will get from
your research should be unique and must be discussed in the future as well. Your
professor needs such an output from you by writing a thesis paper. However,
it is not easy. Arranging the information for different sections is a time consuming
task because, it should be done with care. A tiny mistake will mislead
your writing. Once you got all information, you should prepare a great draft
of your paper so that you will never go beyond the topic. You need to take much
effort and much time to write a thesis paper. If you think that it is unmanageable
for you, then you can ask help from cheap thesis writing service (https://essayschief.com/service/Dissertation/Thesis_Writing)
experts. The experts
are well trained writers and especially the thesis writers have a degree not less
than a Ph.D. So, your thesis paper will be safe if you choose a writing service
to write the assignment in great quality and professionalism.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485111#485111
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: Writing your thesis paper |
Hi Steve;
And the relevance of this to building aircraft electrical systems is.....?
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "stevencarter" <toressjohn(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2018 9:58:24 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Writing your thesis paper
Essay writing and thesis writing are of different level. But, thesis cannot be
written as an essay. It needs good research and much data to support the findings.
So, it takes much time to complete writing. The results you will get from
your research should be unique and must be discussed in the future as well. Your
professor needs such an output from you by writing a thesis paper. However,
it is not easy. Arranging the information for different sections is a time consuming
task because, it should be done with care. A tiny mistake will mislead
your writing. Once you got all information, you should prepare a great draft
of your paper so that you will never go beyond the topic. You need to take much
effort and much time to write a thesis paper. If you think that it is unmanageable
for you, then you can ask help from cheap thesis writing service (https://essayschief.com/service/Dissertation/Thesis_Writing)
experts. The experts
are well trained writers and especially the thesis w!
riters have a degree not less than a Ph.D. So, your thesis paper will be safe
if you choose a writing service to write the assignment in great quality and professionalism.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485111#485111
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
Hi,
Has anyone already added to the draw.io program shape library with some
shapes like Bob's? Should not take too long, but if I can save a couple
hours of work it would be great. The format for doing the shapes is pretty
easy.
https://support.draw.io/display/DO/Editing+Shapes
Here's my battery that looks like the one in Z diagrams:
I just took the one they had and made it a three-cell instead of two.
Thanks,
Mickey
Mickey Coggins
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag wiring |
| From: | "John M Tipton" <john(at)tiptonuk.eu> |
Hi Bob - Further to your diagram (2-10, Off-Both-Wig-wag) you have a permanently
live lead (terminal 2) going to the wig-wag unit, would it not be better (good
practice) to put this lead on terminal 1, making that lead 'hot' only when
the switch is in one of it's two 'on' states - Regards: John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485205#485205
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag wiring |
At 05:38 PM 11/17/2018, you wrote:
>
>Hi Bob - Further to your diagram (2-10, Off-Both-Wig-wag) you have a
>permanently live lead (terminal 2) going to the wig-wag unit, would
>it not be better (good practice) to put this lead on terminal 1,
>making that lead 'hot' only when the switch is in one of it's two
>'on' states - Regards: John
>
The artifact you've cited was left
over from Eric's original drawing, but
your suggested modification sure wouldn't hurt . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
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________________________________________________________________________________
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485308#485308
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
I like this approach very much for all the reasons Bob mentions in is opening post.
I would have expected a relay 'solution' could be even simpler than that: I would
expect no more than what I have drawn up quickly as in attached schema.
I am however struggling to understand the way Bob has wired the S704, so please
enlighten this not-so-electro-savvy-person: what is/are the fundamental difference(s)
between Bob's schema and what I have come up with?
I suspect it has to do with the timing aspects mentioned, but don't see why 'my'
lesser-component approach would not take care of those.
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485340#485340
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2018_11_20_at_141613_843.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
At 07:25 AM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
>
>I like this approach very much for all the reasons Bob mentions in
>is opening post.
>
>I would have expected a relay 'solution' could be even simpler than
>that: I would expect no more than what I have drawn up quickly as in
>attached schema.
>
>I am however struggling to understand the way Bob has wired the
>S704, so please enlighten this not-so-electro-savvy-person: what
>is/are the fundamental difference(s) between Bob's schema and what I
>have come up with?
>
>I suspect it has to do with the timing aspects mentioned, but don't
>see why 'my' lesser-component approach would not take care of those.
Yes . . . timing. (1) You want the e-bus to be
'boosted' BEFORE the starter current begins
to flow and (2) remain boosted until AFTER
the starter current is interrupted. We're
talking tens of milliseconds here. The working
hypothesis: the S704 wired as shown will offer
a substantial drop-out delay (instigated by the
catch diode on the coil). Hence it provides the
necessary physics for condition (2).
I'll confirm this with an experiment on the
bench but I think the hypothesis is sound.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Marcel,
You are right about the timing. The purpose of the diode between the downstream
side of the start switch
and the DC-DC converter is to conduct instantaneous power during the time that
it takes the relay to close.
The purpose of the relay is to provide a delay opening the circuit to the DC-DC
converter.
If you want to simplify the circuit, leave out both the diode and the relay and
connect the DC-DC converter
in parallel with the starter contactor. As soon as the start button is pressed,
the DC-DC converter will be energized.
The pilot is not going to let go of the start button until the engine starts.
Once the engine has started,
even for a second, the battery voltage will be above 10 volts. Thus brownout protection
will be no longer needed.
What do you have to lose by trying it? If it doesn't work, no harm is done. There
will be brownout just like before experimenting.
I suggest that the E-Bus switch common pole be connected to the E-Bus so that
either the DC-DC converter
or battery is selected, but both can not be connected together at the same time.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485344#485344
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
At 07:25 AM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
>
>I like this approach very much for all the reasons Bob mentions in
>is opening post.
>
>I would have expected a relay 'solution' could be even simpler than
>that: I would expect no more than what I have drawn up quickly as in
>attached schema.
>
>I am however struggling to understand the way Bob has wired the
>S704, so please enlighten this not-so-electro-savvy-person: what
>is/are the fundamental difference(s) between Bob's schema and what I
>have come up with?
>
>I suspect it has to do with the timing aspects mentioned, but don't
>see why 'my' lesser-component approach would not take care of those.
Yes . . . timing. (1) You want the e-bus to be
'boosted' BEFORE the starter current begins
to flow and (2) remain boosted until AFTER
the starter current is interrupted. We're
talking tens of milliseconds here. The working
hypothesis: the S704 wired as shown will offer
a substantial drop-out delay (instigated by the
catch diode on the coil). Hence it provides the
necessary physics for condition (2).
Oops, hit the send too soon.
The diode around the S704 goes to condition (1).
The diode in series with the output from the
boost module goes to our lack of knowledge as
to how well the boost module tolerates
'back feeding' when not being used. It may
not be necessary but it doesn't hurt anything
either. The extra diode is already part of our
old friend, the diode bridge rectifier.
I'll confirm this with an experiment on the
bench but I think the hypothesis is sound.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Depending on the architecture of the DC-DC converter, a diode in series with its
output may or may not be needed.
I assume that the converter changes supply voltage to AC, transforms it to a higher
voltage, then rectifies
and filters the AC to change it back to a higher voltage DC. The rectifiers should
block reverse current flow.
But assumptions can be wrong.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485346#485346
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
Thanks Bob and Joe, thanks for your (very) quick replies ;), much appreciated!
So, let me rephrase to see if I understand the workings of Bob's schema correctly:
- the diode across the coil makes sure the relay opens tens of milliseconds later
than opening up the start switch, hopefully by then the voltage on the battery
by then has gone above brownout voltage (and you can replace this diode by
a capacitor to increase the delay if so required);
- the other diode in the line providing instantaneous power to the DC/DC converter
is there to make sure no electrons can reach the starter connector after the
start switch has been opened.
Joe, thanks for pointing out my oversight of connecting the DC/DC to the E-Bus
Switch common.
And for the two diodes: will any out of the 1N... series do?
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485350#485350
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
Which would then be integrated in my schema as shown below.
Any flaws with that?
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485351#485351
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2018_11_20_at_162946_965.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The main purpose of a diode across the relay coil is to short out induced voltage
being generated by the
collapsing relay magnetic field. Without a diode or other voltage snubber, high
voltage can arc across
the contacts of the controlling switch, eventually damaging it. I would not replace
the diode with
a capacitor. Any arc suppression diode capable of conducting 1 amp or more will
do.
The diode in series with the DC-DC converter should be rated at least 10 amps.
There is no need for two separate circuits and fuses.
Regardless of one or two circuits, the fuse(s) needs to be able to handle the DC-DC
converter current.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485353#485353
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
At 10:39 AM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
>
>The main purpose of a diode across the relay coil is to short out
>induced voltage being generated by the
>collapsing relay magnetic field. Without a diode or other voltage
>snubber, high voltage can arc across
>the contacts of the controlling switch, eventually damaging it.
Actually, a capacitor COULD be used to effect
drop-out delay per the t=rc constant of the
capacitor + coil resistance. But you would still
need a series diode to isolate the coil/capacitor
combo from the voltage source. A diode will do the same
thing per t=l/r but MAY prove to be too short.
The bench testing will deny/confirm the hypothesis.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
user9253 wrote:
> The main purpose of a diode across the relay coil is to short out induced voltage
being generated by the collapsing relay magnetic field.
Sure, I did not mention that as that seems obvious to me, but good to add as a
clarification. Thanks!
user9253 wrote:
> Any arc suppression diode capable of conducting 1 amp or more will do.
Okay.
user9253 wrote:
> The diode in series with the DC-DC converter should be rated at least 10 amps.
Yes, I can see why... (an even higher current rating might be required though,
depending on used DC/DC converter type and battery voltage drop when starter engine
spins up)
user9253 wrote:
> There is no need for two separate circuits and fuses.
You are right, having thought about it a bit more I even think it is not a good
idea to use two fuses as there is no way of knowing during preflight checking
if one of the two fuses was blown, so you would not know that the circuit can
only carry half the design current. Better to go with an XOR type of design...
user9253 wrote:
> Regardless of one or two circuits, the fuse(s) needs to be able to handle the
DC-DC converter current.
Sure enough (as do the wires ;) ).
Thanks again Joe for further explanations.
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485361#485361
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | DC - DC Converter |
| From: | "Rocketman1988" <Rocketman(at)etczone.com> |
Anyone have a recommendation on a 12VDC to 5VDC converter that is too noisy?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485375#485375
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Check with Steinair=2E
=81=A3Charlie=8B
On Nov 20, 2018, 8:44 PM
, at 8:44 PM, Rocketman1988 wrote:
>--> AeroElect
ric-List message posted by: "Rocketman1988"
>
>
>A
nyone have a recommendation on a 12VDC to 5VDC converter that is too
>noisy
?
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom/
viewtopic=2Ephp?p=485375#485375
>
>
=
= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
s the Annual List Fund Raiser=2E Click on
elow to find out more about
fts provided
otstore=2Ecom
-> http://www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/contribution
your generous support!
lle, List Admin=2E
===================
- The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
res Navigator to browse
cription,
Photoshare, and much much more:
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so available via the Web Forums!
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================
EW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
iki!
=
for your generous support!
, List Admin=2E
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
I bought this $25 wonder from Aircraft Spruce.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/eadualusbpanel.php
I have not flow with it yet but I expect that it will be just fine. Big
plus for me was that it installs in a round hole.
-- Art Z.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 8:02 PM Rocketman1988 wrote:
> Rocketman(at)etczone.com>
>
> Anyone have a recommendation on a 12VDC to 5VDC converter that is too
> noisy?
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
| From: | "Rocketman1988" <Rocketman(at)etczone.com> |
Thanks. I am really looking for a 5v supply to drive some servos. There are plenty
of switching regulators out there but I am curious as to the effect on the
radios...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485381#485381
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
There is a thread on VansAirforce about 5 volt USB ports.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=87369
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485382#485382
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
| From: | "Rocketman1988" <Rocketman(at)etczone.com> |
Not looking for a USB port. Looking for a 5v power supply that will power some
servos and have minimal EMI for the radios...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485383#485383
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald Champagne <gerald.champagne(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
You could use something like this that's specifically designed to power
servos that are sitting right next to a radio receiver:
http://home.castlecreations.com/becs
http://www.castlecreations.com/en/accessories-5/cc-bec-010-0004-00
They're small, they're cheap, they're RF friendly, and the output voltage
is programmable. I've used them on several RC projects and they work great.
Gerald
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:33 PM Rocketman1988 wrote:
> Rocketman(at)etczone.com>
>
> Not looking for a USB port. Looking for a 5v power supply that will power
> some servos and have minimal EMI for the radios...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485383#485383
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
Or try Max Products Inc's rc regulators.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 19:54 Gerald Champagne You could use something like this that's specifically designed to power
> servos that are sitting right next to a radio receiver:
>
> http://home.castlecreations.com/becs
>
> http://www.castlecreations.com/en/accessories-5/cc-bec-010-0004-00
>
> They're small, they're cheap, they're RF friendly, and the output voltage
> is programmable. I've used them on several RC projects and they work great.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:33 PM Rocketman1988
> wrote:
>
>> Rocketman(at)etczone.com>
>>
>> Not looking for a USB port. Looking for a 5v power supply that will
>> power some servos and have minimal EMI for the radios...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485383#485383
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> br> fts!)
>> r> > e.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> -
>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
If you want to run your ow, I have very good experience with Traco
Power DC-DC converters, they come
in all kind of varieties, also high power once, they are clean and
work perfect since over 15 years in my plane
Mouser does sell them
Cheers Werner
On 21.11.2018 03:51, Rocketman1988 wrote:
>
> Thanks. I am really looking for a 5v supply to drive some servos. There are
plenty of switching regulators out there but I am curious as to the effect on
the radios...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
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Matt Dralle
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skip <cardinalnsb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | 12v to 19.5 dc converter |
There are dozens on Amazon, to keep my laptop charged, just wondering if s
omeone has had good experience (quiet, robust, reasonable output) with any
particular brand.=C2- Thanks, Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DC - DC Converter |
At 08:51 PM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
>
>
>Thanks. I am really looking for a 5v supply to drive some
>servos. There are plenty of switching regulators out there but I am
>curious as to the effect on the radios...
>
Unless it's an off-the-shelf device
specific to aviation, there is little
to be known about their emissions
and even then, they may not have been
tested in the lab, only operated in
one or more airplanes and found to be
compatible.
Pick any down-converter that meets your
performance needs. Adding filtering
is generally not a gut-wrenching experience
should your particular selection prove
'incompatible'.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
One question as there's too many different types of diodes and I'm having trouble
finding what I need: any suggestions for what type of diode is needed for the
arc-suppression high-current rating line ? If you could provide one brand and
item number to point me to the right type that would help me on my way big
time.
Thanks!
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485512#485512
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
How about 1N5400
Mechanical strength of the wire leads is more important than other characteristics.
Arc suppression diodes are connected with the banded end towards positive.
The only time that they conduct is for a split second when a coil is de-energized.
Even a 1N4148 would probably work if they were not so frail.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485513#485513
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
Thanks Joe!
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485514#485514
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been
putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it!
The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose
from this year. I personally want at least three of them! There's probably
something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your
Lists!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists!
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Crate <rv6a(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Adding a Fuse Block |
Hi Bob
I have been flying my RV6A for nearly ten years using your Z-11 wiring system..
This system has worked extremely well. I am currentlyin the process of adding
a second radio and audio panel, but have run out of useable tabs on my main
& endurance busses. I have a four fuse fuse block that I would like to add to
the main buss. If I mount the extra fuse block within six inches of the main
bus, can I power it from the main bus power terminal via an unfused #16 wire?
The alternative would be to free up a tab on the main bus, run a fused wire
from the tab and then move that consumer to the new fuse block.
Appreciate you advice.
Thanks,
John
RV6A
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adding a Fuse Block |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
> can I power it from the main bus power terminal via an unfused #16 wire?
Yes, that is what I would do. Just make absolutely sure that #16 wire has no chance
of shorting out.
Support it well near the terminations and double insulate it if it will help.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485599#485599
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adding a Fuse Block |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Why not use the same size wire that feeds the main bus? 16 ga significantly
limits the total carrying capacity of the added bus, and could bite you or
future maintainers if a couple of high load devices get added to the new b
lock=2E
=81=A3Charlie=8B
On Nov 23, 2018, 10:05 AM, at 10:05 AM,
John Crate wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message poste
d by: John Crate
>
>Hi Bob
>
>I have been flying my RV6
A for nearly ten years using your Z-11 wiring
>system=2E=2E This system ha
s worked extremely well=2E I am currentlyin the
>process of adding a secon
d radio and audio panel, but have run out of
>useable tabs on my main & end
urance busses=2E I have a =9Cfour fuse=9D fuse
>block that I w
ould like to add to the main buss=2E If I mount the extra
>fuse block with
in six inches of the main bus, can I power it from the
>main bus power term
inal via an unfused #16 wire? The alternative would
>be to free up a tab o
n the main bus, run a fused wire from the tab and
>then move that consumer
to the new fuse block=2E
>
>Appreciate you advice=2E
>Thanks,
>John
>RV6A
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
===================
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser=2E Click on
bout
y:
>_
-= List Contribution Web Site:
cs=2Ecom/contribution
============
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ive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
much more:
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=================
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port!
= --> http://www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/contribution
===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Off line until 11/24 |
The truck is packed up with tables, chairs
and probably too much to eat. We're headed
out to the ol' homestead in Airplane City.
Be back on line Saturday.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
At 04:48 PM 11/22/2018, you wrote:
>
>How about 1N5400
>Mechanical strength of the wire leads is more important than other
>characteristics. Arc suppression diodes are connected with the
>banded end towards positive. The only time that they conduct is for
>a split second when a coil is de-energized. Even a 1N4148 would
>probably work if they were not so frail.
In fact, ANY of the 1N54xx series is fine.
5400's may be harder to find than say,
a 1N5406.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adding a Fuse Block |
At 08:56 AM 11/23/2018, you wrote:
>
>Hi Bob
>
>I have been flying my RV6A for nearly ten years
>using your Z-11 wiring system.. This system has
>worked extremely well. I am currentlyin the
>process of adding a second radio and audio
>panel, but have run out of useable tabs on my
>main & endurance busses. I have a =9Cfour
>fuse=9D fuse block that I would like to add to
>the main buss. If I mount the extra fuse block
>within six inches of the main bus, can I power
>it from the main bus power terminal via an
>unfused #16 wire? The alternative would be to
>free up a tab on the main bus, run a fused wire
>from the tab and then move that consumer to the new fuse block.
Yes . . . just tie the two busses
together by-the-bolts with a short
pieces of wire. #16 would be okay;
you really won't be tying much load
onto the new bus.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adding a Fuse Block |
At 03:50 PM 11/23/2018, you wrote:
>Why not use the same size wire that feeds the main bus? 16 ga
>significantly limits the total carrying capacity of the added bus,
>and could bite you or future maintainers if a couple of high load
>devices get added to the new block.'
Recall that except for voltage drop
considerations, 22AWG under Tefzel
doesn't get into trouble at 20A.
16AWG is 4x the cross section of 22AWG.
It would be quite sufficient over the
distance cited.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Ford Voltage Regulator |
Z-11 shows the S wire of the Ford regulator tied in to the A terminal. Our
Hartzell alternator has a dedicated Sta terminal so I'm guessing that the S
terminal of the regulator should go to the Sta terminal on the alternator
instead of being tied into the alternator switch going to the A terminal?
Can anyone please confirm if this makes sense or not?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Millner <millner(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Voltage Regulator |
Nope, dont do that. The Ford regulator doesnt use the stator terminal. PlanePowers
regulator does.
Paul
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 24, 2018, at 7:18 PM, Sebastien wrote:
>
> Z-11 shows the S wire of the Ford regulator tied in to the A terminal. Our Hartzell
alternator has a dedicated Sta terminal so I'm guessing that the S terminal
of the regulator should go to the Sta terminal on the alternator instead
of being tied into the alternator switch going to the A terminal? Can anyone please
confirm if this makes sense or not?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Voltage Regulator |
At 09:18 PM 11/24/2018, you wrote:
>Z-11 shows the S wire of the Ford regulator tied in to the A
>terminal. Our Hartzell alternator has a dedicated Sta terminal so
>I'm guessing that the S terminal of the regulator should go to the
>Sta terminal on the alternator instead of being tied into the
>alternator switch going to the A terminal? Can anyone please confirm
>if this makes sense or not?
The "s" terminal did go to the stator
winding in cars . . . but is best
paralleled with "a" in airplanes.
Ignore the aux, n or s terminals on
the alternator.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Alternator_Data/Legacy_EM_Regulator_(Ford).pdf
This is because the solid state replacement
for the Ford E-M regulator is NOT a
strictly functional replacement. The "S"
terminal does not behave in the same
manner as it did on the E-M products.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Voltage Regulator |
So for any VR166 regulator and Ford type alternator combination wire as per
Z-11.
Thank you Bob.
On Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 08:46 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com wrote:
> At 09:18 PM 11/24/2018, you wrote:
>
> Z-11 shows the S wire of the Ford regulator tied in to the A terminal. Our
> Hartzell alternator has a dedicated Sta terminal so I'm guessing that the S
> terminal of the regulator should go to the Sta terminal on the alternator
> instead of being tied into the alternator switch going to the A terminal?
> Can anyone please confirm if this makes sense or not?
>
>
> The "s" terminal did go to the stator
> winding in cars . . . but is best
> paralleled with "a" in airplanes.
> Ignore the aux, n or s terminals on
> the alternator.
>
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Alternator_Data/Legacy_EM_Regulator_(Ford).pdf
>
>
> This is because the solid state replacement
> for the Ford E-M regulator is NOT a
> strictly functional replacement. The "S"
> terminal does not behave in the same
> manner as it did on the E-M products.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B lead circuit breaker |
| From: | Ron Burnett <ronburnett(at)charter.net> |
Follow up on field Cb:
Now the 5 amp Field CB blew after take off yesterday and could not be reset.
A few days before it blew shortly after takeoff and reset and I read 16 co
lts briefly.
I removed thePlane Power alternator and will send to Montgomery for exchange
(hopefully) or repair. It was purchased from Vans in December 2014 but not
flying until August 2017 with less than 120 hours. Hope it is under warran
ty.
Will call them tomorrow morning.
Ron Burnett
May you have the Lord's blessings today!
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 9, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Ron Burnett wrote:
>
> Bob is correct in that it is the 5 amp Field CB that pops. First time was
a year ago, once. Then 3 times on an 8 hour 4 leg cross country. First ti
me Wig wags and strobe was on. Turns wig wags off, left strobes on, repoppe
d a few minutes later, reset and landed. This was at the end of nearly four
hours of flight.
>
> Four days later took off with strobes on and CB popped. Turned strobe off
and flew 4 hours home with no issues. Will check connection on Field wire t
o CB.
> The voltage regulator is obviously built in the alternator.
>
> That is all I know, which isn=99t much.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Burnett
>
> May you have the Lord's blessings today!
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 9, 2018, at 8:02 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>>
>> Do circuit breakers trip due to high voltage, or due to current overload?
>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 10:30 PM Ron Burnett wro
te:
>>> Art,
>>>
>>> Yes, the volt meter shows 14.2 to 14.3 range in flight, unless it spikes
I guess?
>>>
>>> Ron Burnett
>>>
>>> May you have the Lord's blessings today!
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Oct 8, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ron,
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a voltmeter in the plane? I am guessing that the circuit br
eaker is popping because the voltage is going too high. Maybe a voltage regu
lator problem.
>>>>
>>>> -- Art Z.
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 8:34 PM Ron Burnett wr
ote:
er.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a Plane Power Alternator on my RV-6A and lately with the Aero Fl
ash strobes on at some point the B lead CB will pop. It does reset. Today
I flew a 2 leg cross country for 4 hours total, all with the strobes off af
ter the popping event 2 minutes into the flight. How would I determine if th
eir is a problem with the strobes that might cause this problem?
>>>> --
>>>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>>>
>>>> "We do not see the world as it is. We see the world as we are."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make |
A Contribution Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists. Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List
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Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the
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Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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helped you!
Best regards,
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A R Goldman <argoldman(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B lead circuit breaker |
Not an expert on =9Calternator facts=9D but my understanding is t
hat the alternator can put out large voltages and it is the purpose of the V
OLTAGE regulator to in effect regulate the output voltage to that useable by
the plane, boat or auto. It does this by controlling the field through the p
rotective breaker, which, in your case, seems to be breaking.
The increased voltage you temporarily saw might be perfectly normal if your v
oltage regulator was in its death throes and not regulating properly after w
hich it gave up the ghost and would only blow the field breaker
All of this is to say that your voltage regulator may be the culprit not the
alternator.
Keep us apprised about this breaking news
Rich
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 25, 2018, at 2:15 PM, Ron Burnett wrote:
>
> Follow up on field Cb:
>
> Now the 5 amp Field CB blew after take off yesterday and could not be rese
t. A few days before it blew shortly after takeoff and reset and I read 16 c
olts briefly.
>
> I removed thePlane Power alternator and will send to Montgomery for exchan
ge (hopefully) or repair. It was purchased from Vans in December 2014 but n
ot flying until August 2017 with less than 120 hours. Hope it is under warr
anty.
>
> Will call them tomorrow morning.
>
> Ron Burnett
>
>
> May you have the Lord's blessings today!
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 9, 2018, at 8:32 PM, Ron Burnett wrote:
>>
>> Bob is correct in that it is the 5 amp Field CB that pops. First time wa
s a year ago, once. Then 3 times on an 8 hour 4 leg cross country. First t
ime Wig wags and strobe was on. Turns wig wags off, left strobes on, repopp
ed a few minutes later, reset and landed. This was at the end of nearly fou
r hours of flight.
>>
>> Four days later took off with strobes on and CB popped. Turned strobe of
f and flew 4 hours home with no issues. Will check connection on Field wire
to CB.
>> The voltage regulator is obviously built in the alternator.
>>
>> That is all I know, which isn=99t much.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ron Burnett
>>
>> May you have the Lord's blessings today!
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2018, at 8:02 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>>>
>>> Do circuit breakers trip due to high voltage, or due to current overload
?
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 10:30 PM Ron Burnett wr
ote:
>>>> Art,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the volt meter shows 14.2 to 14.3 range in flight, unless it spike
s I guess?
>>>>
>>>> Ron Burnett
>>>>
>>>> May you have the Lord's blessings today!
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 8, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron,
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a voltmeter in the plane? I am guessing that the circuit b
reaker is popping because the voltage is going too high. Maybe a voltage reg
ulator problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Art Z.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 8:34 PM Ron Burnett w
rote:
ter.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a Plane Power Alternator on my RV-6A and lately with the Aero
Flash strobes on at some point the B lead CB will pop. It does reset. Tod
ay I flew a 2 leg cross country for 4 hours total, all with the strobes off a
fter the popping event 2 minutes into the flight. How would I determine if t
heir is a problem with the strobes that might cause this problem?
>>>>> --
>>>>> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> "We do not see the world as it is. We see the world as we are."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B lead circuit breaker |
>
>
>All of this is to say that your voltage regulator may be the culprit
>not the alternator.
PlanePower uses the stock, INTERNAL votlage
regulator in their automotive->airplane
conversions. So in this case, the whole
alternator assembly needs to be returned
for evaluation.
In this instance, it appears that the PlanePower
added, crowbar ov management system was doing its
job.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John <rv6a(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adding a Fuse Block |
Thanks to all who replied. Much appreciated.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question.
Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides
for the very expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the
List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List
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Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
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List Contribution Web Site:
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581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | A slice of history |
https://youtu.be/ncUdqT8AxY0
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A slice of history |
| From: | Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org> |
It was awesome being at AirVenture and watching their formation flights.
That video is a great find. Thanks.
--Rick
On 11/27/2018 10:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
> https://youtu.be/ncUdqT8AxY0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Need help with some Z-14 electrical system troubleshooting |
(the Z-14 has 2 buses, 2 alternators and 2 batteries - B&C alternators
and regulators, Odyssey batteries)
I regularly fly with the 2 buses not interconnected. At cruise I've
been seeing between 14.5 and 14.7 volts on both buses. I've been
running like that for over a year.
On my last flight I noticed the voltage on bus 2 dropped almost 1 volt.
It was jumping around between 13.4 and 14.0 volts. I removed various
loads to see if perhaps I had a malfunctioning component but this had no
effect.
I engaged the cross feed to connect the 2 buses. Bus 2 remained at 14
volts or less but was less jumpy staying closer to 14. Bus 1 remained
at 14.5 to 14.7.
With the cross feed engaged and Bus 2 switched off, the voltage on Bus 2
dropped to between 12.4 and 13.7
With the cross feed engaged, I pulled the CB on the bus 2 regulator
taking the #2 regulator/alternator offline. Bus 2 voltage was between
12.8 and 13.5 (bus 1 was 14.5)
I don't have a load tester but the bus 2 battery seems okay (12.78volts
with no load at 50F). It would seem that I'm getting some current from
the alternator but there has been a distinct drop in bus 2 voltage. I
would have thought that both buses would have roughly the same voltage
when interconnected with the bus 2 alternator offline.
I'm looking for some advice on troubleshooting. Thanks!
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help with some Z-14 electrical system troubleshooting |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 11/27/2018 1:04 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
>
> (the Z-14 has 2 buses, 2 alternators and 2 batteries - B&C alternators
> and regulators, Odyssey batteries)
>
> I regularly fly with the 2 buses not interconnected. At cruise I've
> been seeing between 14.5 and 14.7 volts on both buses. I've been
> running like that for over a year.
>
> On my last flight I noticed the voltage on bus 2 dropped almost 1
> volt. It was jumping around between 13.4 and 14.0 volts. I removed
> various loads to see if perhaps I had a malfunctioning component but
> this had no effect.
>
> I engaged the cross feed to connect the 2 buses. Bus 2 remained at 14
> volts or less but was less jumpy staying closer to 14. Bus 1 remained
> at 14.5 to 14.7.
>
> With the cross feed engaged and Bus 2 switched off, the voltage on Bus
> 2 dropped to between 12.4 and 13.7
>
> With the cross feed engaged, I pulled the CB on the bus 2 regulator
> taking the #2 regulator/alternator offline. Bus 2 voltage was between
> 12.8 and 13.5 (bus 1 was 14.5)
>
> I don't have a load tester but the bus 2 battery seems okay
> (12.78volts with no load at 50F). It would seem that I'm getting some
> current from the alternator but there has been a distinct drop in bus
> 2 voltage. I would have thought that both buses would have roughly
> the same voltage when interconnected with the bus 2 alternator offline.
>
> I'm looking for some advice on troubleshooting. Thanks!
>
Any chance you have an instrument error issue? If you put a digital
meter on each bus, what does it say? If you verify low voltage, maybe a
shorted diode in the alternator?
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help with some Z-14 electrical system troubleshooting |
| From: | Ken <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
Nice description. My Z14 does show both voltages the same with the
crossfeed closed as you surmise. I'd want to verify that the buss 2
voltage is accurate with a separate meter.
Next I'd physically disconnect the buss 2 alternator to see what
happens. Or measure the current from (or into) the #2 regulator or
alternator if you have a current meter. A DC Clamp ON ammeter is handy
for rough DC current measurements. (under $20. on ebay).
Ken
On 2018-11-27 2:04 p.m., Bill Watson wrote:
>
>
> (the Z-14 has 2 buses, 2 alternators and 2 batteries - B&C alternators
> and regulators, Odyssey batteries)
>
> I regularly fly with the 2 buses not interconnected. At cruise I've
> been seeing between 14.5 and 14.7 volts on both buses. I've been
> running like that for over a year.
>
> On my last flight I noticed the voltage on bus 2 dropped almost 1 volt.
> It was jumping around between 13.4 and 14.0 volts. I removed various
> loads to see if perhaps I had a malfunctioning component but this had no
> effect.
>
> I engaged the cross feed to connect the 2 buses. Bus 2 remained at 14
> volts or less but was less jumpy staying closer to 14. Bus 1 remained
> at 14.5 to 14.7.
>
> With the cross feed engaged and Bus 2 switched off, the voltage on Bus 2
> dropped to between 12.4 and 13.7
>
> With the cross feed engaged, I pulled the CB on the bus 2 regulator
> taking the #2 regulator/alternator offline. Bus 2 voltage was between
> 12.8 and 13.5 (bus 1 was 14.5)
>
> I don't have a load tester but the bus 2 battery seems okay (12.78volts
> with no load at 50F). It would seem that I'm getting some current from
> the alternator but there has been a distinct drop in bus 2 voltage. I
> would have thought that both buses would have roughly the same voltage
> when interconnected with the bus 2 alternator offline.
>
> I'm looking for some advice on troubleshooting. Thanks!
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skywagon185guy <skywagon185(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with some Z-14 electrical system troubleshooting |
A rough guess would be that the alternator possibly has lost one of its
high current diodes.
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:10 AM Bill Watson wrote:
> Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
>
> (the Z-14 has 2 buses, 2 alternators and 2 batteries - B&C alternators
> and regulators, Odyssey batteries)
>
> I regularly fly with the 2 buses not interconnected. At cruise I've
> been seeing between 14.5 and 14.7 volts on both buses. I've been
> running like that for over a year.
>
> On my last flight I noticed the voltage on bus 2 dropped almost 1 volt.
> It was jumping around between 13.4 and 14.0 volts. I removed various
> loads to see if perhaps I had a malfunctioning component but this had no
> effect.
>
> I engaged the cross feed to connect the 2 buses. Bus 2 remained at 14
> volts or less but was less jumpy staying closer to 14. Bus 1 remained
> at 14.5 to 14.7.
>
> With the cross feed engaged and Bus 2 switched off, the voltage on Bus 2
> dropped to between 12.4 and 13.7
>
> With the cross feed engaged, I pulled the CB on the bus 2 regulator
> taking the #2 regulator/alternator offline. Bus 2 voltage was between
> 12.8 and 13.5 (bus 1 was 14.5)
>
> I don't have a load tester but the bus 2 battery seems okay (12.78volts
> with no load at 50F). It would seem that I'm getting some current from
> the alternator but there has been a distinct drop in bus 2 voltage. I
> would have thought that both buses would have roughly the same voltage
> when interconnected with the bus 2 alternator offline.
>
> I'm looking for some advice on troubleshooting. Thanks!
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Achille" <mickael.t(at)live.fr> |
Hi all,
I have a question about a problem that i have with my new electrical system.
I have a two way switch with 2 voltmeters, one for the main battery and the other
one for the aux, still hot battery.
When I set this switch on, i have a noise in my headset. And it's the voltmeter
one. I wired all my electrical system with the one point ground bus to avoid
this kind of problem.
I set the noisy voltmeter on the ESS BUS, that is after the diode (my diode is
set between the main bus and the ESS BUS. (I wired the Z19 diagram from bob electrical
system)
Do you have any advice ? (this week I will try to disconect it from ESS BUS and
try on the main bus in a first time.)
thank you in advance ;)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485847#485847
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B lead circuit breaker |
| From: | Ron Burnett <ronburnett(at)charter.net> |
Here is the update on my Plane Power alternator. It was tested at PP and fa
iled internally not related to the voltage regulator. A new replacement will
arrive tomorrow under warranty.
Thank all of you for your ideas and help during this process when the altern
ator still operated but kept tripping the field, but would reset and operate
normally.
Ron Burnett RV-6A
L 0360 dual EFII
May you have the Lord's blessings today!
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 25, 2018, at 8:28 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> All of this is to say that your voltage regulator may be the culprit not t
he alternator.
>
> PlanePower uses the stock, INTERNAL votlage
> regulator in their automotive->airplane
> conversions. So in this case, the whole
> alternator assembly needs to be returned
> for evaluation.
>
> In this instance, it appears that the PlanePower
> added, crowbar ov management system was doing its
> job.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | EarthX Battery Tester |
https://earthxbatteries.com/shop/optimate-lithium-battery-charger-lifepo4
The chargers EarthX sell will wait 30 minutes after charging and then check
the voltage to see if the voltage has been retained. If it passes, it will
wait up to 12 hours and then check again to check for excessive self
discharge.
Is this sufficient to confirm that the battery is healthy or would some
sort of load test also be a good idea?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Page <jpx(at)qenesis.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 335 Transponder Installation Manual |
Does anyone have a current Installation Manual for a Garmin 335
Transponder that they would be willing to share ?
Thanks !
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EarthX Battery Tester |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
Looking at the specs that "Lithium" model seems to be identical to the model I
have for my Odyssey 545 battery, it also uses the same charging/testing strategy.
Having a different model, my experience does not necessarily apply to this one,
but I'd like to share it anyway as I had a similar line of thinking when I bought
the thing couple of years ago:
Mine does a good job of maintaining the voltage level the battery is at and can
recover from small discharge levels, but not much more than that. Mine certainly
is not capable of recovering from deep discharges.
Given those 'limited' capabilities, I do a load charge test one year after bought
new (I do this in spring-time), and replace it with a new battery the next
year.
I want to have a high level of confidence that my battery is capable to deal with
a alternator-out situation and allows me to finish the flight as planned when
this happens. FYI: I have a single alternator - single battery setup and do
daytime VFR only)
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485865#485865
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stall warning through Radio |
| From: | "John M Tipton" <john(at)tiptonuk.eu> |
Hi
What kind of input do I use to in-put a 'Stall Warning' sound through the radio
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485866#485866
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: EarthX Battery Tester |
Hi Marcel;
Hi All;
It is for that very reason that I have two (2) twenty amp, internally regulated,
permanent magnet alternators installed.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 3:47:40 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: EarthX Battery Tester
Looking at the specs that "Lithium" model seems to be identical to the model I
have for my Odyssey 545 battery, it also uses the same charging/testing strategy.
Having a different model, my experience does not necessarily apply to this one,
but I'd like to share it anyway as I had a similar line of thinking when I bought
the thing couple of years ago:
Mine does a good job of maintaining the voltage level the battery is at and can
recover from small discharge levels, but not much more than that. Mine certainly
is not capable of recovering from deep discharges.
Given those 'limited' capabilities, I do a load charge test one year after bought
new (I do this in spring-time), and replace it with a new battery the next
year.
I want to have a high level of confidence that my battery is capable to deal with
a alternator-out situation and allows me to finish the flight as planned when
this happens. FYI: I have a single alternator - single battery setup and do
daytime VFR only)
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485865#485865
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning through Radio |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
If all you have now is a stall warning vane and switch, then that switch needs
to turn on an audio oscillator which is then connected to an aux audio input on
the radio. Search eBay for Assembled Audio Oscillator
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485868#485868
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EarthX Battery Tester |
Marcel, what do you use for your "load" when you do the load test?
Ken
On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 2:52 AM zwakie wrote:
>
> Looking at the specs that "Lithium" model seems to be identical to the
> model I have for my Odyssey 545 battery, it also uses the same
> charging/testing strategy.
>
> Having a different model, my experience does not necessarily apply to this
> one, but I'd like to share it anyway as I had a similar line of thinking
> when I bought the thing couple of years ago:
>
> Mine does a good job of maintaining the voltage level the battery is at
> and can recover from small discharge levels, but not much more than that.
> Mine certainly is not capable of recovering from deep discharges.
>
> Given those 'limited' capabilities, I do a load charge test one year after
> bought new (I do this in spring-time), and replace it with a new battery
> the next year.
>
> I want to have a high level of confidence that my battery is capable to
> deal with a alternator-out situation and allows me to finish the flight as
> planned when this happens. FYI: I have a single alternator - single battery
> setup and do daytime VFR only)
>
> --------
> Marcel Zwakenberg
> Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485865#485865
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EarthX Battery Tester |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
kenryan wrote:
> Marcel, what do you use for your "load" when you do the load test?
One of these: http://www.westmountainradio.com/product_info.php?products_id=cba4
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485870#485870
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EarthX Battery Tester |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n wrote:
> Hi Marcel;
> Hi All;
> It is for that very reason that I have two (2) twenty amp, internally regulated,
permanent magnet alternators installed.
> Cheers! Stu.
> ---
Yeah, I have that on my wishlist too for that same reason but it is lower than
what I am working on right now (upgrading panel to glass) as with the new panel
I can last over 2 hours on battery only according to load calculations and battery
specs ;)
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485871#485871
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a Two days left for this year's List Fund Raiser! If you've been
putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it!
The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose
from this year. I personally want at least three of them! There's probably
something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your
Lists!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists!
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EarthX Battery Tester |
>
>Mine does a good job of maintaining the voltage level the battery is
>at and can recover from small discharge levels, but not much more
>than that. Mine certainly is not capable of recovering from deep discharges.
>
>Given those 'limited' capabilities, I do a load charge test one year
>after bought new (I do this in spring-time), and replace it with a
>new battery the next year.
>
>I want to have a high level of confidence that my battery is capable
>to deal with a alternator-out situation and allows me to finish the
>flight as planned when this happens. FYI: I have a single alternator
>- single battery setup and do daytime VFR only)
CAPACITY equates to ENDURANCE. This is what the
e-bus is for. You can periodically shut off
the master switch, close the alternate feed
switch and then time how long your battery
will support the e-bus loads.
Not sure what a 'load charge' test would be.
The classic load test at the lead-acid battery
factory is to place so much load on the battery
that its terminal voltage drops by 1/2. This
means that the resistance of the load is equal
to internal resistance of the battery. Typical
test currents can be well over 1000 amps.
This condition is held for x seconds whereupon
voltages and currents observed must exceed
some minimum value.
A capacity test looks at useful energy available
in chemical storage. The battery is loaded with
y amps (endurance value) and time down to 11 volts
(in lead acid world) is noted. This measurement
speaks to sustaining battery only flight conditions
and is only loosely related to results of any
variation on a load test.
Lithium internal resistance is so low that the
classic Ipp (peak power load test) is impractical.
Hence, tests for x seconds at z amps (cranking
currents) are practical. Capacity testing
remains unchanged.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EarthX Battery Tester |
Thank you Bob.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 11:07 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> Mine does a good job of maintaining the voltage level the battery is at
> and can recover from small discharge levels, but not much more than that.
> Mine certainly is not capable of recovering from deep discharges.
>
> Given those 'limited' capabilities, I do a load charge test one year after
> bought new (I do this in spring-time), and replace it with a new battery
> the next year.
>
> I want to have a high level of confidence that my battery is capable to
> deal with a alternator-out situation and allows me to finish the flight as
> planned when this happens. FYI: I have a single alternator - single battery
> setup and do daytime VFR only)
>
>
> CAPACITY equates to ENDURANCE. This is what the
> e-bus is for. You can periodically shut off
> the master switch, close the alternate feed
> switch and then time how long your battery
> will support the e-bus loads.
>
> Not sure what a 'load charge' test would be.
> The classic load test at the lead-acid battery
> factory is to place so much load on the battery
> that its terminal voltage drops by 1/2. This
> means that the resistance of the load is equal
> to internal resistance of the battery. Typical
> test currents can be well over 1000 amps.
>
> This condition is held for x seconds whereupon
> voltages and currents observed must exceed
> some minimum value.
>
> A capacity test looks at useful energy available
> in chemical storage. The battery is loaded with
> y amps (endurance value) and time down to 11 volts
> (in lead acid world) is noted. This measurement
> speaks to sustaining battery only flight conditions
> and is only loosely related to results of any
> variation on a load test.
>
> Lithium internal resistance is so low that the
> classic Ipp (peak power load test) is impractical.
> Hence, tests for x seconds at z amps (cranking
> currents) are practical. Capacity testing
> remains unchanged.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EarthX Battery Tester |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
[quote="nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"]
> A capacity test looks at useful energy available in chemical storage. The battery
is loaded with y amps (endurance value) and time down to 11 volts (in lead
acid world) is noted.
Thanks for correcting me Bob, and apologies for carelessly writing down he wording
"load testing". I indeed meant to write "capacity testing", and the method
that you describe here is exactly what I do.
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485955#485955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EarthX Battery Tester |
>
>
>Thanks for correcting me Bob, and apologies for carelessly writing
>down he wording "load testing". I indeed meant to write "capacity
>testing", and the method that you describe here is exactly what I do.
No problem. We're ALL interested in
precise speech for it is a fundamental
foundation of understanding.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alkaline battery holder for handheld radio |
| From: | "jdubner" <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
Thought I'd post about my surprising experience with alkaline battery holders for
my handheld radio. I have two of them and last week when I ran down the Li-ion
pack and needed them (after a panel-mount radio failure), both were dead!
Not just weak, but dead as a doornail. Both of them.
The radio is a Vertex Standard VXA-700 using the FBA-23 battery case for two "AA" cells. (It's my understanding this same battery case is used with the VX-5R, VX-6R, VX-7R, VX-6E, and other radios). http://store.batteriesamerica.com/FBA-23AlkalineBatteryCaseforYAESUVERTEXSTANDARDHORIZON.aspx
After landing I put two fresh cells into each and measured the voltage at the battery
case terminals. Good: 4.5 volts. Wait, what? How can that be? There
are only two AA cells.
It turns out that the FBA-23 battery case contains hidden circuitry (a boost converter?)
and places a small but constant drain on the batteries even when not
installed in the radio. I measured about 50 microamps on the bench.
So now my alkaline battery holders are kept without their alkaline cells installed.
The cells will last a lot longer in storage if I install them just before
use.
--
Joe
RV-8A
Independence, OR
--------
RV-8A
Independence, OR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485958#485958
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B lead circuit breaker |
| From: | Ron Burnett <ronburnett(at)charter.net> |
My new alternator arrived today and I was able to flight test it. The old P
P alternator produced 14.2 volts while now I see 14.5. They also blessed me
by sending the 70 amp while my return was the 60 amp. I feel that Allen at
Hartzell/Plane Power treated me very well.
Thanks to all.
Ron Burnett
May you have the Lord's blessings today!
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 28, 2018, at 4:35 PM, Ron Burnett wrote:
>
> Here is the update on my Plane Power alternator. It was tested at PP and f
ailed internally not related to the voltage regulator. A new replacement wil
l arrive tomorrow under warranty.
>
> Thank all of you for your ideas and help during this process when the alte
rnator still operated but kept tripping the field, but would reset and opera
te normally.
>
> Ron Burnett RV-6A
> L 0360 dual EFII
>
> May you have the Lord's blessings today!
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 25, 2018, at 8:28 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroel
ectric.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All of this is to say that your voltage regulator may be the culprit not
the alternator.
>>
>> PlanePower uses the stock, INTERNAL votlage
>> regulator in their automotive->airplane
>> conversions. So in this case, the whole
>> alternator assembly needs to be returned
>> for evaluation.
>>
>> In this instance, it appears that the PlanePower
>> added, crowbar ov management system was doing its
>> job.
>>
>> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Changes in education field and technology |
| From: | "KennethAmpbell" <Kennethampbell(at)protonmail.com> |
Education is not the same as in the olden days now. According to the technology
change the educational system is also in the path of change. Students now are
growing up in the technology era so that they think and act more intelligently
than the older generation. Smart classrooms and better education strategies
are really doing wonders in the next generation kids. Students now are also getting
help from online resources such as write my essay other than that of the
olden time which makes easy for them to manage their curriculum activities. Students
can also get educational tips and tricks such as how to succeed. Getting
help from experts actually is a better option to achieve success.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=485960#485960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again
- 55! :-) But it also means that it's that last official day of the Matronics
Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up one of those
really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tipton <john(at)tiptonuk.eu> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning through Radio |
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biBhdXggYXVkaW8gaW5wdXQgb24gdGhlIHJhZGlvLiAgU2VhcmNoIGVCYXkgZm9yIEFzc2VtYmxl
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Changes in education field and technology |
At 10:24 PM 11/29/2018, you wrote:
>
IGNORE . . . not a subscribed Lister . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse rating on AWG 20 wire with AeroLED strobes? |
At 07:59 PM 11/29/2018, you wrote:
>I found the Bussmann ATC fuse specs, looks like a 7.5A fuse should
>be fine for brief pulses up to 8.5A from the strobes, and should
>also be acceptable for protecting the wire notwithstanding the
>AC43.13 table that says to use 5A fuse for AWG 20. So I think I
>answered my own question with more research, but please advise if
>you see anything wrong with this approach.
20AWG is protected at 7A in most
TC aircraft. But keep in mind that
UNLIKE circuit breakers, fuses can
be "hammered" by short duration
transients that exceed the fuse rating.
"Hammering" contributed to the
sequence of events that brought
N811HB down . . .
https://tinyurl.com/msfmldj
There are no risks associated with
up-sizing the 20AWG protection to
the next level. I'd be quite comfortable
with 10A for your application.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning through Radio |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Yes, something like that is what I had in mind. If someone else has a suggestion,
please post.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486058#486058
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Page <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning through Radio |
Joe, you might try searching eBay for voice recorder module. There are several
variants that can record whatever you wish, and play it back when triggered.
Prices start at $0.99.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning through Radio |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Good suggestion Eric. I have one of those voice recorders along with an airspeed
switch
on my RV-12 to warn of unlatched canopy during takeoff roll. -
-
John, search eBay for item number 332182973272, (Diy Kit 16-Tone)
I used one of those to make a toy for grand kids.
The description mentions voice, but there is no voice, just sounds.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486064#486064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning through Radio |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Those do-it-yourself kits require that aircraft voltage be reduced, perhaps to
5 volts.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486067#486067
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning through Radio |
At 08:50 AM 12/1/2018, you wrote:
>
>Those do-it-yourself kits require that aircraft voltage be reduced,
>perhaps to 5 volts.
Emacs!
How about this?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Buy Apple iPhone Xs Max (Website www.esellibuy.com) $999CAD |
| From: | "thpremetic" <thpremetic(at)esellibuy.com> |
Buy Apple iPhone Xs Max
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486084#486084
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse rating on AWG 20 wire with AeroLED strobes? |
At 10:40 PM 12/2/2018, you wrote:
>When you say 'unlike circuit breakers'...what do you mean? Would
>the CB trip more quickly than a fuse would blow, or would it be more
>tolerant of what you're calling 'hammering'?
Both devices operated based on temperature
rise caused by current generated heating.
Breakers are bi-metal 'thermostats' . . . they
trip at a calibrated temperature which is
NOT affected by previous excursions up to the
edge of tripping. A CB is good for thousands
of trip cycles with very little change in
performance.
Fuses are pieces of metal designed to heat up
and melt at a predictable temperature. A
characteristic that can be tailored to a
current flow through the 'sensing' metal.
But operating a fuse at its recommended
'limit' (75% of rating) produces SOME
heating. This means that a fuse under
normal load is already some way up the
I(squared)R trip ladder when it is presented
with transient 'overloads'. These little pushes
into trip territory can cause mini-melts to
occur in the fusible material which has the
effect of lowering the fuse's rating. Repeated
'hammering' will seriously compromise predictability
of that fuse to carry normal loads.
When N811HB lost both ignition systems on
base to the runway, the single fuse carrying
BOTH ignition systems had been loaded to
more than 75% on several occasions with
short excursions to over 100%. Compromised
fuse predictability combined with poor
choices in architecture to kill the
engine.
>And your last statement 'there are no risks associated with
>up-sizing the 20 AWG protection to the next level', do you mean
>using a 10A fuse with 20 AWG, or are you saying to increase wire gauge to 18?
'20AWG protection' is classically pegged
at 7A. Raising it to 10A or even 15A
in this situation will stand off the 'hammering'
effects. It is not a risky thing to do. It
will eliminate the possibility of nuisance
tripping.
Given that the lights do not represent a
critical flight system, you could leave the
7A fuse in place and see how it goes. If
you experience a nuisance trip, up-size the
fuse.
Let us know what you discover . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuse rating on AWG 20 wire with AeroLED strobes? |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
I did a little experiment on Saturday after having finalized the wiring on my strobes.
Specs ask for 5A fuse, so I put a 5A fuse in and lighted up the strobes.
Having read this post on Friday night, I was expecting the fuse to blow, but I
was very surprised to see that happen so quickly (literally well within 10 seconds).
A 7.5A fuse did hold while keeping the strobes on for more than 2-3 minutes, but
to be safe I 'upped' the fuse to 10A and will 'up' the two short leads from
fuse block to switch to the beefy wiring that a previous owner has put in to match
the 10A fuse. I will also review the determined fuse-sizes for other circuits
that (can possibly) carry transient loads.
This was an educational experiment.... ;)
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486118#486118
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning through Radio |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
There are lots of ways to make an alarm tone.
The Forrest Mims Engineer's Notebook (my favorite book) has some circuits.
https://www.zpag.net/Electroniques/Kit/The%20Forrest%20Mims%20Engineers%20Notebook.pdf
On page 55 is a gated tone source. Grounding a pin on a 74LS368 turns on the tone.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486120#486120
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning through Radio |
At 04:35 PM 12/3/2018, you wrote:
>
>There are lots of ways to make an alarm tone.
>The Forrest Mims Engineer's Notebook (my favorite book) has some circuits.
>https://www.zpag.net/Electroniques/Kit/The%20Forrest%20Mims%20Engineers%20Notebook.pdf
>On page 55 is a gated tone source. Grounding a pin on a 74LS368
>turns on the tone.
Boy . . . there's a classic. I've recommended
that publication dozens of times over the years.
An excellent learning tool.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | operating a relay with a cell phone |
I bought a GSM Gate Opener GSM Remote Switch RTU5024, figuring I would use
it to control a DPST relay on the plug-in wire to my Tanis pre-heat system,
allowing me to turn it on and off using my cell phone.
It has two inputs for 12v DC (+ and -) to power it. The other connections
are labeled NO COM NC.
I understand that NO means "normally open" COM means "common" and NC means
"normally closed" I am not clear as to how I would incorporate a relay for
turning my 110 volt circuit on and off. If the kind soul who helps could
include a recommendation as to the specific relay, that would be great!
Please help this dummy.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/4/2018 6:01 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> I bought a GSM Gate Opener GSM Remote Switch RTU5024, figuring I would
> use it to control a DPST relay on the plug-in wire to my Tanis
> pre-heat system, allowing me to turn it on and off using my cell phone.
>
> It has two inputs for 12v DC (+ and -) to power it. The other
> connections are labeled NO COM NC.
>
> I understand that NO means "normally open" COM means "common" and NC
> means "normally closed" I am not clear as to how I would incorporate a
> relay for turning my 110 volt circuit on and off. If the kind soul who
> helps could include a recommendation as to the specific relay, that
> would be great! Please help this dummy.
>
> Ken
>
>
Hi Ken,
If it's this model:
https://www.amazon.com/Opener-Remote-Access-Sliding-RTU5024/dp/B07BT3N4QM/ref=asc_df_B07BT3N4QM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241942959786&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9161805644825714517&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9013952&hvtargid=pla-458426103553&psc=1
one of the images on that page shows the relay as having 'dry' contacts.
See the image the shows 220VAC feeding through the NO / COM contacts to
run a motor. You can wire 110VAC the same way to your heater. *BUT* :
you need to find the current rating of the relay contacts, to be sure
you won't be overloading them with your heater. If the heater load
exceeds the relay contact rating, you can still use it by adding a
heavier external relay, driven by the relay in the opener. You'll likely
have to configure the switch to be continuous 'on' instead of momentary
'on' which would be the case for a gate controller.
Check back if you need a wiring diagram for an external relay.
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Here is a schematic diagram.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486130#486130
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tanis_heater_173.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
How many watts is the Tanis heater? If it is 400 watts or more, then a heavy duty
relay needs to be added.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486132#486132
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
Joe, the Tanis is only 230 watts, but I'm reluctant to use the RTU5024 as
the main relay. I was planning to use a separate heavy duty relay for the
main relay, and use the RTU5024 to control it. Can you show me how I would
do that (control a relay with a relay)? Also if you could give me a Mouser
part number for an appropriate relay, that would really fix me up.
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 5:16 PM user9253 wrote:
>
> How many watts is the Tanis heater? If it is 400 watts or more, then a
> heavy duty relay needs to be added.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486132#486132
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
Charlie, yes I think that is what I need. A wiring diagram for using a
separate relay. The RTU5024 is programmable to be on for a set period of
time. It can also be programmed to only accept command from authorized
numbers, etc. And supposedly I don't need a phone plan for it, only a sim
card. If it works out as I hope, it will be really neat.
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 5:03 PM Charlie England wrote
:
> ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> On 12/4/2018 6:01 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> > I bought a GSM Gate Opener GSM Remote Switch RTU5024, figuring I would
> > use it to control a DPST relay on the plug-in wire to my Tanis
> > pre-heat system, allowing me to turn it on and off using my cell phone.
> >
> > It has two inputs for 12v DC (+ and -) to power it. The other
> > connections are labeled NO COM NC.
> >
> > I understand that NO means "normally open" COM means "common" and NC
> > means "normally closed" I am not clear as to how I would incorporate a
> > relay for turning my 110 volt circuit on and off. If the kind soul who
> > helps could include a recommendation as to the specific relay, that
> > would be great! Please help this dummy.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> Hi Ken,
>
> If it's this model:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Opener-Remote-Access-Sliding-RTU5024/dp/B07BT3N4QM
/ref=asc_df_B07BT3N4QM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241942959
786&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9161805644825714517&hvpone=&hvptwo=
&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9013952&hvtargid=p
la-458426103553&psc=1
>
> one of the images on that page shows the relay as having 'dry' contacts.
> See the image the shows 220VAC feeding through the NO / COM contacts to
> run a motor. You can wire 110VAC the same way to your heater. *BUT* :
> you need to find the current rating of the relay contacts, to be sure
> you won't be overloading them with your heater. If the heater load
> exceeds the relay contact rating, you can still use it by adding a
> heavier external relay, driven by the relay in the opener. You'll likely
> have to configure the switch to be continuous 'on' instead of momentary
> 'on' which would be the case for a gate controller.
>
> Check back if you need a wiring diagram for an external relay.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
I know that it isn't as much fun as building something cool out of a cell
phone radio and a relay, but you can just buy a mechanical thermostat for
next to nothing. Here is one for $27 at Grainger
https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Line-Volt-Mechanical-Tstat-2E815
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
You can buy a 30 amp relay at an auto parts store.
Ignore the B beside the battery.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486135#486135
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tanis_heater__116.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
Art, my goal is not to regulate the temperature of the engine, it is to
control the on/off switch via cell phone, so that I can phone in the night
before and the engine will be toasty the next morning, ready for service.
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 6:49 PM Art Zemon wrote:
> I know that it isn't as much fun as building something cool out of a cell
> phone radio and a relay, but you can just buy a mechanical thermostat for
> next to nothing. Here is one for $27 at Grainger
> https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Line-Volt-Mechanical-Tstat-2E815
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> *"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
Okay, so an automotive relay like we would use on our airplanes would be
okay for this application, too. I have a few lying around.
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 6:52 PM user9253 wrote:
>
> You can buy a 30 amp relay at an auto parts store.
> Ignore the B beside the battery.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486135#486135
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tanis_heater__116.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
| From: | Ken <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
Well it would work.
But would not be legal or particularly fire safe as it certainly isn't
rated for 120 volts. Definitely the kind of thing that an insurance
investigator likes to find. Of course turning on any kind of heating
device when no one is around entails some risk anyway...
Ken
On 2018-12-04 11:16 p.m., Ken Ryan wrote:
> Okay, so an automotive relay like we would use on our airplanes would be
> okay for this application, too. I have a few lying around.
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 6:52 PM user9253 > wrote:
>
> >
>
> You can buy a 30 amp relay at an auto parts store.
> Ignore the B beside the battery.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486135#486135
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tanis_heater__116.jpg
>
>
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
> r> > e.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ==========
> -
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
At 06:46 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
>
>Well it would work.
>But would not be legal or particularly fire safe as it certainly
>isn't rated for 120 volts. Definitely the kind of thing that an
>insurance investigator likes to find. Of course turning on any kind
>of heating device when no one is around entails some risk anyway...
>Ken
The S704 style plastic relays are quite
suited to this task. According to the
users manual, output from the device
is a set of form-c dry contacts rated
at 3A so a 'buffer relay' is called for.
Consider a solid state device like this
https://tinyurl.com/y9qh9wq4
You can use the n.o./common contacts
of the receiver to control power to
the SSR input. You can 'steal' power
from the same supply that operates the
receiver.
There are no regulatory issues (aside
from local fire marshals) for this
project. If it's not bolted to the airframe,
it's of no interest to the feds.
I'd mount the receiver and solid state relay
on the wall of the hangar and provide an
outlet to an extension cord that powers
the Tanis heater in its normal operating
configuration. Risks (beyond failure to
function) are zero.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay would
be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the RTU5024 is well
rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the Tanis (2A/115AC) and
so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly untilizing the relay in the
RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much simpler. Thanks Joe.
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 5:04 PM user9253 wrote:
>
> Here is a schematic diagram.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486130#486130
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tanis_heater_173.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
Okay change of plan, thanks much Bob.
Ken
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 06:58 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com wrote:
> At 06:46 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
>
>
> Well it would work.
> But would not be legal or particularly fire safe as it certainly isn't
> rated for 120 volts. Definitely the kind of thing that an insurance
> investigator likes to find. Of course turning on any kind of heating device
> when no one is around entails some risk anyway...
> Ken
>
>
> The S704 style plastic relays are quite
> suited to this task. According to the
> users manual, output from the device
> is a set of form-c dry contacts rated
> at 3A so a 'buffer relay' is called for.
>
> Consider a solid state device like this
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y9qh9wq4
>
> You can use the n.o./common contacts
> of the receiver to control power to
> the SSR input. You can 'steal' power
> from the same supply that operates the
> receiver.
>
> There are no regulatory issues (aside
> from local fire marshals) for this
> project. If it's not bolted to the airframe,
> it's of no interest to the feds.
>
> I'd mount the receiver and solid state relay
> on the wall of the hangar and provide an
> outlet to an extension cord that powers
> the Tanis heater in its normal operating
> configuration. Risks (beyond failure to
> function) are zero.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
At 09:52 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
>Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay
>would be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the
>RTU5024 is well rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the
>Tanis (2A/115AC) and so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly
>untilizing the relay in the RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much
>simpler. Thanks Joe.
Opps . . . the Tanis only take 2A? Hmmm . . .
one COULD use the receiver's built in
relay although I'd still tend toward adding
the buffer relay with the following caveats:
Current through the receiver's relay contacts
is VERY low when driving an SSR . . . after some
period of time in service, corrosion build on
the receiver relay contacts MIGHT cause the
n.o. contacts to go 'open'. Not likely but
still something to throw in the trouble-shooting
bucket if the critter quits.
If you elect to use the built in relay, then
contact 'cleaning' will not be an issue. I
think I'd add a 5A fuse in series with 120vac
power to the Tanis . . . if for whatever reason,
current in that loop is faulted, it would
be cool if the event didn't smoke the internal
relay (probably not easy to replace).
Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out
a lot more heat but they had to play catchup
in minutes. 250W continuously applied over-night
may well be enough. Learned something new today.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/5/2018 12:45 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 09:52 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
>> Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay
>> would be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the
>> RTU5024 is well rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the
>> Tanis (2A/115AC) and so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly
>> untilizing the relay in the RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much
>> simpler. Thanks Joe.
>
> Opps . . . the Tanis only take 2A? Hmmm . . .
> one COULD use the receiver's built in
> relay although I'd still tend toward adding
> the buffer relay with the following caveats:
>
> Current through the receiver's relay contacts
> is VERY low when driving an SSR . . . after some
> period of time in service, corrosion build on
> the receiver relay contacts MIGHT cause the
> n.o. contacts to go 'open'. Not likely but
> still something to throw in the trouble-shooting
> bucket if the critter quits.
>
> If you elect to use the built in relay, then
> contact 'cleaning' will not be an issue. I
> think I'd add a 5A fuse in series with 120vac
> power to the Tanis . . . if for whatever reason,
> current in that loop is faulted, it would
> be cool if the event didn't smoke the internal
> relay (probably not easy to replace).
>
> Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
> My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out
> a lot more heat but they had to play catchup
> in minutes. 250W continuously applied over-night
> may well be enough. Learned something new today.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Probably using something like this:
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ez-440a.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMrkaMXwANnl_DM_XXVmvLX8YXFhCmJF86d9J7_YQdXyxxqLc23o_IwaAhVKEALw_wcB
bonded directly to the oil pan.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
>> . .
>Probably using something like this:
><http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ez-440a.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMrkaMXwANnl_DM_XXVmvLX8YXFhCmJF86d9J7_YQdXyxxqLc23o_IwaAhVKEALw_wcB>http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ez-440a.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMrkaMXwANnl_DM_XXVmvLX8YXFhCmJF86d9J7_YQdXyxxqLc23o_IwaAhVKEALw_wcB
>bonded directly to the oil pan.
cool! Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
Bob, the Tanis is well documented to work extremely well. There are five
bolts that replace engine bolts (one for each cylinder, and one in the
engine case) that act as resistance heaters and there is also a pad to heat
the oil in the Rotax external oil tank, so the heat goes directly into the
engine. Here is a link to a short 11:19 video showing careful testing under
controlled conditions:
https://rotax-owner.com/en/videos-topmenu/product-reviews/149-tanis
Ken
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 9:51 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 09:52 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
>
> Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay would
> be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the RTU5024 is well
> rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the Tanis (2A/115AC) and
> so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly untilizing the relay in the
> RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much simpler. Thanks Joe.
>
>
> Opps . . . the Tanis only take 2A? Hmmm . . .
> one COULD use the receiver's built in
> relay although I'd still tend toward adding
> the buffer relay with the following caveats:
>
> Current through the receiver's relay contacts
> is VERY low when driving an SSR . . . after some
> period of time in service, corrosion build on
> the receiver relay contacts MIGHT cause the
> n.o. contacts to go 'open'. Not likely but
> still something to throw in the trouble-shooting
> bucket if the critter quits.
>
> If you elect to use the built in relay, then
> contact 'cleaning' will not be an issue. I
> think I'd add a 5A fuse in series with 120vac
> power to the Tanis . . . if for whatever reason,
> current in that loop is faulted, it would
> be cool if the event didn't smoke the internal
> relay (probably not easy to replace).
>
> Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
> My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out
> a lot more heat but they had to play catchup
> in minutes. 250W continuously applied over-night
> may well be enough. Learned something new today.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
Bob,
I don't know about Tanis. I have a Reiff with a 50W band around each
cylinder and a 100W pad on the oil sump.
-- Art Z.
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:04 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
> My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operating a relay with a cell phone |
| From: | Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org> |
I have the Reiff turbo system with 100W cylinder bands, TWO 100w pads on
the sump and a 100W pad on the oil cooler. It's 700W. Last week I left
it plugged in over night (28 degree low) and when I went flying in the
morning the oil was at 121 degrees. If I plug it in before flight at
that temp it's at least an hour before I'm comfortable with the engine
temperature. The dragon can more or less do it in a quarter of that time.
--Rick
On 12/5/2018 3:11 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I don't know about Tanis. I have a Reiff with a 50W band around each
> cylinder and a 100W pad on the oil sump.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:04 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> >
> wrote:
>
> Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
> My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
| Subject: | Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? |
Hi all,
Some 15 years ago we ordered a Bob Archer comm antenna for installation
in our wingtip, and have been very satisfied with it.
Here is a sketch of our 15 year old antenna :
A buddy of mine launches into another project and just received a new
Archer antenna to install in his tail fin, but the dimensions and shape
seem different, and the rivets prevent the upper segment from being
swept up to fit into the tail.
Although the antenna is labelled "Comm", we are finally not sure the
model is a VHF one.
Does any of you gentlemen have any information as to the shape and
dimensions of the present time Archer comm antennas - or VOR antennas -
so we could clarify the matter ?
Thanks in advance,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/8/2018 11:46 AM, GTH wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Some 15 years ago we ordered a Bob Archer comm antenna for
> installation in our wingtip, and have been very satisfied with it.
>
> Here is a sketch of our 15 year old antenna :
>
>
> A buddy of mine launches into another project and just received a new
> Archer antenna to install in his tail fin, but the dimensions and
> shape seem different, and the rivets prevent the upper segment from
> being swept up to fit into the tail.
>
> Although the antenna is labelled "Comm", we are finally not sure the
> model is a VHF one.
>
> Does any of you gentlemen have any information as to the shape and
> dimensions of the present time Archer comm antennas - or VOR antennas
> - so we could clarify the matter ?
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
> http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
Pretty sure that if you could see side by side images of all the
Sportcraft antennas, you'd see significant differences among the various
antennas. IIRC, there are different models for RV-4-8, the -9, & -10
wing tips. The vertical fin would be yet another design. The VOR
antennas would be yet another set.
Did he make sure that the model he bought is recommended for his a/c,
and for the location where he intends to mount it?
Charlie
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 08/12/2018 19:49, Charlie England a crit:
/
> /Pretty sure that if you could see side by side images of all the
> Sportcraft antennas, you'd see significant differences among the
> various antennas. IIRC, there are different models for RV-4-8, the
> -9, & -10 wing tips. The vertical fin would be yet another design. The
> VOR antennas would be yet another set.
> / /
> Did he make sure that the model he bought is recommended for his a/c,
> and for the location where he intends to mount it?
> /
Hi Charlie,
Thank you for responding.
His project is a composite homebuilt that certainly no one knows outside
our country.
The antenna is to be located in the glass fiber fin, but as it is a
small airplane, there no room for
a 1/2 wave antenna.
Provided the model is a correct comm antenna the actual question is, can
we pivot the radiating element so as to match the fin, like in red in
the following diagram
Of course this would involve removing some rivets, but from an
electrical point of view, would such a "sweep" be acceptable ?
Thank you,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? |
On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 1:42 PM GTH wrote:
>
> *Le 08/12/2018 =C3- 19:49, Charlie England a =C3=A9crit : *
>
>
> *Pretty sure that if you could see side by side images of all the
> Sportcraft antennas, you'd see significant differences among the various
> antennas. IIRC, there are different models for RV-4-8, the -9, & -10 win
g
> tips. The vertical fin would be yet another design. The VOR antennas woul
d
> be yet another set. *
>
> * Did he make sure that the model he bought is recommended for his a/c,
> and for the location where he intends to mount it? *
>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Thank you for responding.
> His project is a composite homebuilt that certainly no one knows outside
> our country.
> The antenna is to be located in the glass fiber fin, but as it is a small
> airplane, there no room for
> a 1/2 wave antenna.
> Provided the model is a correct comm antenna the actual question is, can
> we pivot the radiating element so as to match the fin, like in red in the
> following diagram
>
>
> Of course this would involve removing some rivets, but from an electrical
> point of view, would such a "sweep" be acceptable ?
>
> Thank you,
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
> http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
>
I'm no antenna expert, but I'd bet that a base loaded whip (like a 'rubber
ducky' off a handheld) would work about as well as radically altering the
tuning of the Archer antenna. Or maybe not. :-)
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Kuffels" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? |
Gilles,
I used to be an antenna expert.
The Archer antenna should work better with the radiating element unbent. I
n fact, it would work best with the radiating element at 90 degrees to the
base. But you might have a bigger issue. This antenna requires a mass of
metal, like a wing, electrically connected along the base to serve as a gro
und plane. Does the aircraft have a metal fuselage or stabilizer.
Another issue is the rudder tube, if metal. If the distance from the front
of the rudder to the antenna radiator is too short, say around a foot or t
wo, you will have a null in your reception toward the rear. The problem is
even worse if the rudder is also metal.
A possible solution might be a bent 1/2 wave dipole. The 1/4 wave part fed
by the coax center wire would fit up the fin from the base, essentially th
e same as the radiating element on the Archer. The other half of the dipol
e would be attached forward to the underside of the fuselage top. The shie
ld of the coax would be attached to this other half. Sort of an L in profi
le from the right side with the coax cable attached at the bend. I would u
se copper sheet 1/2 - 3/4 inch wide for the elements.
If this simple antenna is not possible for some reason then more complex ar
rangements start appearing such as dual end coil loaded dipoles. This coul
d be made to fit in the fin but then you are getting into the area of much
tinkering and antenna analyzers, etc.
Tom Kuffel
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Kuffels" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? |
Gilles,
What model Archer antenna does your friend have. Archer offers a compresse
d dipole (looks like a weird "3") model SA006 which is 26.5" tall by 12" wi
de.
At some $190 it is a bit pricey but should fit if your unbent wing tip mode
l would have.
Tom
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 09/12/2018 06:26, The Kuffels a crit:
/
> //
> //
> //
> /What model Archer antenna does your friend have. Archer offers a
> compressed dipole (looks like a weird "3") model SA006 which is 26.5"
> tall by 12" wide./
> //
> //
Hi all,
Thank you to all who answered.
My friend's model is the SA001A. He just mentionned the SA006 which
could have been used, but he has already received the SA001A.
Here are some info about the present project :
It is a very small airplane, in the 100hp/140kt cruise category.
The fuselage is carbon fiber, with the fin, rudder post and rudder
intentionally made of glass fiber (shown in red below) :
We will try to "unbend" the radiating element to have it more
perpendicular to the base/ground element and fit in the tail fin, and as
advised I'll borrow a SWR-meter to verify this does not harm the antenna
efficiency.
Our intention is to use the same principle as in our first project to
connect the antenna ground element to the carbon fuselage.
Concerning this first project, still flying - and transmitting - great
after 15 years.
At the time Bob Archer kindly answered our many questions, and here is
how we installed the antenna with great success :
The antenna is located in the right wingtip, intentionally made of glass
instead of carbon as the rest of the airplane :
saumon
Mr Archer told us that would could "unbend" the radiating element to
match the wingtip shape.
He also gave his advice on how to connect the ground element to the wing
carbon skin :
http://contrails.free.fr/images/instruments/Alum_Foil.gif
Thank you for your help,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? |
At 11:46 AM 12/8/2018, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Some 15 years ago we ordered a Bob Archer comm antenna for
>installation in our wingtip, and have been very satisfied with it.
>
>Here is a sketch of our 15 year old antenna :
>
>[]
>
>
>A buddy of mine launches into another project and just received a
>new Archer antenna to install in his tail fin, but the dimensions
>and shape seem different, and the rivets prevent the upper segment
>from being swept up to fit into the tail.
>
>Although the antenna is labelled "Comm", we are finally not sure the
>model is a VHF one.
>
>Does any of you gentlemen have any information as to the shape and
>dimensions of the present time Archer comm antennas - or VOR
>antennas - so we could clarify the matter ?
>
Antennas come in a constellation of shapes
and sizes tailored FIRST to be efficient
at the transmission/reception of radio
energy. The antenna you've cited was
originally a VOR antenna designed to mount
under the wing tip of an RV.
[]
The short, horizontal section riveted to the close-out
rib of the wing. It's essentially a bent,
1/4 wave radiator with a 'gamma match'.
Further, due to it's operational orientation
wtih the earth, it's fundamentally a horizontally
polarized antenna.
https://tinyurl.com/ycxlsd4d
Later in Bob's OBAM aviation efforts, he
offered a slightly smaller (Comm frequencies)
version (1A)
https://tinyurl.com/y9xenkj6
but it too was intended for use on METAL aricraft
with non-metallic fin/tip caps. When this
antenna is installed on the wing, it's deficiencies
as a horizontally polarized antenna are partially
offset by attaching the base in the lowest practical
orientation on the rib and deflecting the
radiating element upward until flush with the
upper, inside surface of the wing tip fairing.
Many builders have reported good results with
this compromised configuration as a COMM antenna.
Nonetheless, this antenna is not suitable
for use on a totally composite aircraft
as it depends on metallic structure for
a ground plane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer comm antenna dimensions ? |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 09/12/2018 16:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit:
/
> /
> Nonetheless, this antenna is not suitable
> for use on a totally composite aircraft
> as it depends on metallic structure for
> a ground plane./
Bob,
Thank you for taking the time to answer.
As mentioned in a previous message, we have had great success with Bob
Archer's wingtip antenna, possibly due to the carbon fiber wing playing
the role of the metallic structure ?
We took special care to ensure good electrical contact between the
antenna ground element and the carbon wing skin.
Also our wingtip curves up to vertical, so the radiating element is
nearly vertical, which may have helped.
Our VHF range is currently 100/150 nautical miles @ 2000 ft QNH, and of
course much more (though useless) at higher altitudes.
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Voltage Regulator |
Well it's working now but not the way I expected. I rewired everything to
match Z-11 (except for the OVM, it's on its way) and started the engine, no
juice: Battery volts only. Further investigation revealed that the builder
thought the current limiter base was the actual current limiter. Installed
the current limiter and everything now works fine.
Which leads me to wonder, while the engine was running and there was no
current load on the alternator, what were the regulator and alternator
doing? I assume that the regulator seeing a constant 12 V would be driving
the alternator to maximum voltage in order to try to raise the bus voltage.
How high a voltage can one of these alternators produce at 2000 RPM?
On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 8:53 AM Sebastien wrote:
> So for any VR166 regulator and Ford type alternator combination wire as
> per Z-11.
>
> Thank you Bob.
>
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 08:46 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com wrote:
>
>> At 09:18 PM 11/24/2018, you wrote:
>>
>> Z-11 shows the S wire of the Ford regulator tied in to the A terminal.
>> Our Hartzell alternator has a dedicated Sta terminal so I'm guessing that
>> the S terminal of the regulator should go to the Sta terminal on the
>> alternator instead of being tied into the alternator switch going to the A
>> terminal? Can anyone please confirm if this makes sense or not?
>>
>>
>> The "s" terminal did go to the stator
>> winding in cars . . . but is best
>> paralleled with "a" in airplanes.
>> Ignore the aux, n or s terminals on
>> the alternator.
>>
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Alternator_Data/Legacy_EM_Regulator_(Ford).pdf
>>
>>
>> This is because the solid state replacement
>> for the Ford E-M regulator is NOT a
>> strictly functional replacement. The "S"
>> terminal does not behave in the same
>> manner as it did on the E-M products.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: [FlyRotary] avionics minefields.... |
This is a cross-post; I also sent it to an alternative engine list where
I'm a member. Hope it's useful.
Charlie
If any of you guys out there tend toward OCD and are currently wiring your
plane, here's a heads-up.
I probably know too much (or maybe not enough) for my own good about
electrical stuff, including issues like electrical noise & ground loops. So
when I created the wiring harnesses for my RV-7 a couple of years ago, I
tried to make sure I avoided ground-related issues by carefully routing
grounds *exactly* where they should be according to the avionics
documentation, and making my best educated guess when I couldn't find any
good documentation.
Well, I laid a couple of mines, & didn't step on them until I installed the
instruments to do a test powerup, prior to closing out the fuselage. The
intercom wouldn't power up, and neither would my Anderson engine monitor.
After spending a couple of days digging through my extensive (but not very
well done) notes, I found the sources of my problems.
The intercom has a 'floating' chassis, and you're directed to run the
ground wire to the radio. I did this; running the ground to the power
ground in the GNS430's tray. I also thought it would be smart to ground the
Anderson monitor to the main ground point in the EC-2, so I tied it to pins
19 & 37, which are then grounded to the engine block. (I documented the
power connections well, but the ground side...not so much.)
So on my 1st real power-up test of the system, not wanting to put multiple
high dollar instruments at risk, I only powered or installed a single
instrument at a time. Anyone see the mines yet?
Charlie
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#m_-783036987977688554_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ford Voltage Regulator |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
No personal experience, but from what I have read, an alternator can put out well
over 100 volts when lightly loaded and field current at maximum.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486212#486212
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Voltage Regulator |
At 11:39 AM 12/10/2018, you wrote:
>Well it's working now but not the way I expected. I rewired
>everything to match Z-11 (except for the OVM, it's on its way) and
>started the engine, no juice: Battery volts only. Further
>investigation revealed that the builder thought the current limiter
>base was the actual current limiter. Installed the current limiter
>and everything now works fine.
>
>Which leads me to wonder, while the engine was running and there was
>no current load on the alternator, what were the regulator and
>alternator doing? I assume that the regulator seeing a constant 12 V
>would be driving the alternator to maximum voltage in order to try
>to raise the bus voltage. How high a voltage can one of these
>alternators produce at 2000 RPM?
Without knowing the alternator's minimum rpm
for regulation value, it cannot be predicted
accurately . . . but it IS pretty high. A
runaway alternator on a Lycoming (hi ratio
belt drive) at cruise rpm can be spectacular.
Probably over 200 volts.
Fortunately, the only risk for no-load
operation is to the rectifiers. If everything
seems normal after the critter was properly
wired, then the rectifiers are probably
okay.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM Charlie England
wrote:
> Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerings for cheap lab
> supplies? Example below. I tried searching my old AEC emails, but the most
> recent reference I found was for a much more expensive model. It'll get
> minimal use; just final checkout of my project's wiring and then rare uses
> after that, so don't want to spend $hundreds.
> 0-30v/0-10a bench supply
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
>
Well, I said I'd publish a pirep once I received the unit, so here we go.
The unit seems to work just fine, with a couple of 'idiosyncrasies'. The
controls are analog, as you'd expect from the pairs of coarse & fine
adjustment knobs. The only frustrating thing is that current limit is set
by setting voltage to some reasonably low value, setting current to
minimum, shorting out the + & - terminals, and then dialing up the current
knobs to the desired limit. Then remove the short and connect your load. At
loads less than the current set point, the voltage display shows your set
point voltage (actual output voltage). The current display will vary
between zero and the current set point, depending on actual load. Once the
current limit is reached, voltage (and the displayed voltage, of course)
falls to limit current to the preset level.
Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not see the
actual current limit set point while in operation, until you actually hit
the limit. Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires going back through
the limit setting for each new work session, unless you trust that the
current limit knobs haven't been touched since the last session. The ideal
supply would have both set point and output displays, but for my limited
needs, I don't need to pay for ideal. :-)
Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to the
$hundreds required for lab grade supplies.
Charlie
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
Hi Charlie;
Bought one. Haven't used it yet. Check back.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 12:29:39 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap bench supply?
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM Charlie England < ceengland7(at)gmail.com > wrote:
Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerings for cheap lab supplies? Example
below. I tried searching my old AEC emails, but the most recent reference
I found was for a much more expensive model. It'll get minimal use; just final
checkout of my project's wiring and then rare uses after that, so don't want
to spend $hundreds.
0-30v/0-10a bench supply
Thanks,
Charlie
Well, I said I'd publish a pirep once I received the unit, so here we go.
The unit seems to work just fine, with a couple of 'idiosyncrasies'. The controls
are analog, as you'd expect from the pairs of coarse & fine adjustment knobs.
The only frustrating thing is that current limit is set by setting voltage
to some reasonably low value, setting current to minimum, shorting out the + &
- terminals, and then dialing up the current knobs to the desired limit. Then
remove the short and connect your load. At loads less than the current set point,
the voltage display shows your set point voltage (actual output voltage).
The current display will vary between zero and the current set point, depending
on actual load. Once the current limit is reached, voltage (and the displayed
voltage, of course) falls to limit current to the preset level.
Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not see the actual
current limit set point while in operation, until you actually hit the limit.
Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires going back through the limit setting
for each new work session, unless you trust that the current limit knobs
haven't been touched since the last session. The ideal supply would have both
set point and output displays, but for my limited needs, I don't need to pay
for ideal. :-)
Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to the $hundreds
required for lab grade supplies.
Charlie
Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
>
>Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not
>see the actual current limit set point while in operation, until you
>actually hit the limit. Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires
>going back through the limit setting for each new work session,
>unless you trust that the current limit knobs haven't been touched
>since the last session. The ideal supply would have both set point
>and output displays, but for my limited needs, I don't need to pay
>for ideal. :-)
>
>Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to
>the $hundreds required for lab grade supplies.
Your observations are typical of every knob-adjusted power
supply I've worked with for decades. The only devices
with pre-set current/voltage values are digitally
addressed. I have one of these guys in my stable:
https://tinyurl.com/ydxv9edb
It performs as advertised but in my opinion,
not nearly as 'agile' as the 4-knob, analog
supplies. But I do confess to being functionally
predisposed. Been using those critters since
'63.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wiring Harness Questions |
Gentlemen (no offense to any women who might monitor this forum),
Aircraft = RV-8
I have removed old EFIS, autopilot, transponder, and radio equipment and I am replacing
it with newer stuff. The electrical system is 12 volt.
I am installing:
Advanced Flight 5800
GTN650
ARINC 429
Dynon Com 425 VHF radio
Dynon autopilot
PS Engineering PDA360EX remote audio panel
Echo UAT
I am building a wiring harness to allow the PDA360EX to talk to the GTN650 and
Com 425 radio and AFS5800.
I have called each of the manufacturers asking for information to correctly wire
the harness. Of course, Garmin will not even talk to me. I called AFS and
they say - you need to call PS Engineering. I called PS Engineering and they
say - you need to call AFS. Same results with Dynon. Everyone points the finger
at the other company and nobody wants to be bothered.
So, I am here to ask if anyone has made a harness between the PDA360EX and a GTN650.
If so, perhaps you can give me some guidance. Or perhaps you know of someone
who will build the harness for a reasonable price. My local avionics shop
wants $800. I understand it is not worth their time and they have to make
money to stay open, but that price is too high. PS Engineering will not build
a harness for me. AFS and others (haven't checked with Steinair) also want
a rather steep price. But, if you know of someone who can make the harness for
a reasonable price, I am willing to pay for it to be built.
However, I am going to press on as if I am going to do the entire build myself.
I have numerous questions about the connections, so I will ask about a few wires
at a time then go and pin them and come back and ask the next question.
Maybe, over time, I will be able to eat this elephant one bite at a time.
1. On the PDA360EX audio panel J1 wiring diagram, it lists connections from Com
1 (GTN650 in my case) as being
Com 1 audio Hi
Com 1 Lo
Com 1 MIC Audio Hi
Com 1 MIC Key
On the GTN650, the P1001 connector has the following
Audio Out HI - pin 4
Audio Out Lo - pin 23
And on the P1003 (Com) connector it has
Com MIC 1 Audio IN HI - pin 5
500 ohm Com Audio HI - pin 7
Com MIC 1 Key - pin 11
500 ohm Com Audio LO - pin 18
MIC Audio IN LO - pin 20
I am familiar with the requirement to use shielded 2 and 3 wire cables and the
requirement to tie the shield grounds together at the audio panel end and ONLY
at that end.
But, can I assume that PDA360EX Com 1 Audio Hi connects to GTN650 Audio Out HI?
Can I assume that PDA360EX Com 1 LO connects to GTN650 Audio Out LO?
Can I assume that PDA360EX Com 1 MIC Audio Hi connects to GTN650 Com MIC 1 Audio
IN HI?
Can I assume that PDA360EX Com 1 MIC Key connects to GTN650 Com MIC 1 Key?
What are the 500 ohm Com Audio HI and LO used for, if anything?
In advance, thanks for your help. I will digest these answers, do the wiring,
and come back with more questions.
Thanks,
Stan Sutterfield
Daytona Beach
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
For those of us who do not care about limiting the current, is there a
cheaper way of getting 20A between 5 and 30V?
On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 20:49 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com wrote:
>
> Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not see
> the actual current limit set point while in operation, until you actually
> hit the limit. Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires going back
> through the limit setting for each new work session, unless you trust that
> the current limit knobs haven't been touched since the last session. The
> ideal supply would have both set point and output displays, but for my
> limited needs, I don't need to pay for ideal. :-)
>
> Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to the
> $hundreds required for lab grade supplies.
>
>
> Your observations are typical of every knob-adjusted power
> supply I've worked with for decades. The only devices
> with pre-set current/voltage values are digitally
> addressed. I have one of these guys in my stable:
>
> https://tinyurl.com/ydxv9edb
>
> It performs as advertised but in my opinion,
> not nearly as 'agile' as the 4-knob, analog
> supplies. But I do confess to being functionally
> predisposed. Been using those critters since
> '63.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
One can usually replace the analog current potentiometer with a multi
position rotary switch and fixed resistors if preferred. I find that
about 6 positions suits my bench supply just fine.
Ken
On 10/12/2018 3:29 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM Charlie England > wrote:
>
> Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerings for cheap
> lab supplies? Example below. I tried searching my old AEC emails,
> but the most recent reference I found was for a much more
> expensive model. It'll get minimal use; just final checkout of my
> project's wiring and then rare uses after that, so don't want to
> spend $hundreds.
> 0-30v/0-10a bench supply
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Well, I said I'd publish a pirep once I received the unit, so here we go.
>
> The unit seems to work just fine, with a couple of 'idiosyncrasies'.
> The controls are analog, as you'd expect from the pairs of coarse &
> fine adjustment knobs. The only frustrating thing is that current
> limit is set by setting voltage to some reasonably low value, setting
> current to minimum, shorting out the+ & - terminals, and then dialing
> up the current knobs to the desired limit. Then remove the short and
> connect your load. At loads less than the current set point, the
> voltage display shows your set point voltage (actual output voltage).
> The current display will vary between zero and the current set point,
> depending on actual load. Once the current limit is reached, voltage
> (and the displayed voltage, of course) falls to limit current to the
> preset level.
>
> Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not
> see the actual current limit set point while in operation, until you
> actually hit the limit. Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires
> going back through the limit setting for each new work session, unless
> you trust that the current limit knobs haven't been touched since the
> last session. The ideal supply would have both set point and output
> displays, but for my limited needs, I don't need to pay for ideal. :-)
>
> Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to
> the $hundreds required for lab grade supplies.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
Get some number transfers so you can set the knobs to the same settings you
require. Set the top to 11 and watch "Spinal Tap" for a giggle. :-}
Rick
On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 6:18 AM C&K wrote:
>
> One can usually replace the analog current potentiometer with a multi
> position rotary switch and fixed resistors if preferred. I find that
> about 6 positions suits my bench supply just fine.
> Ken
>
> On 10/12/2018 3:29 PM, Charlie England wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 4:59 PM Charlie England > > wrote:
> >
> > Anyone have experience with the recent ebay offerings for cheap
> > lab supplies? Example below. I tried searching my old AEC emails,
> > but the most recent reference I found was for a much more
> > expensive model. It'll get minimal use; just final checkout of my
> > project's wiring and then rare uses after that, so don't want to
> > spend $hundreds.
> > 0-30v/0-10a bench supply
> > <
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/10A-Digital-DC-Power-Supply-Variable-Adjustable-
Lab-Bench-Test-Equipment-Tool/202435783331?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&
_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> >
> > Well, I said I'd publish a pirep once I received the unit, so here we g
o.
> >
> > The unit seems to work just fine, with a couple of 'idiosyncrasies'.
> > The controls are analog, as you'd expect from the pairs of coarse &
> > fine adjustment knobs. The only frustrating thing is that current
> > limit is set by setting voltage to some reasonably low value, setting
> > current to minimum, shorting out the + & - terminals, and then dialing
> > up the current knobs to the desired limit. Then remove the short and
> > connect your load. At loads less than the current set point, the
> > voltage display shows your set point voltage (actual output voltage).
> > The current display will vary between zero and the current set point,
> > depending on actual load. Once the current limit is reached, voltage
> > (and the displayed voltage, of course) falls to limit current to the
> > preset level.
> >
> > Behavior of the supply is as expected, but it is frustrating to not
> > see the actual current limit set point while in operation, until you
> > actually hit the limit. Since the knobs are unmarked, this requires
> > going back through the limit setting for each new work session, unless
> > you trust that the current limit knobs haven't been touched since the
> > last session. The ideal supply would have both set point and output
> > displays, but for my limited needs, I don't need to pay for ideal. :-)
> >
> > Assuming long term survival, I consider it a great value compared to
> > the $hundreds required for lab grade supplies.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_
campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
>
> > Virus-free. www.avast.com
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_
campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
>
> >
> >
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
| From: | "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl> |
I received the last bit today (DC/DC converter) and had some time to kill this
evening, so I built the circuit and tested it successfully on the bench.
I used a Ripca 2152C for the relay and this little critter as the buck-boost converter: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-35V-to-1-35V-DC-DC-Buck-Boost-Charger-Power-Converter-Module-With-AluminumSG-/123523715069?oid=112837380675 , along with the diode(s) previously recommended.
It will be a little while before I reach the point with my panel upgrade to glass
before I can confirm it really prevents a brownout. I will report back when
the time comes (hopefully in 2-3 weeks from now).
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486241#486241
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question on Grounding |
| From: | "vookis" <csgo.expertt(at)gmail.com> |
Good evening. Looking for a portable boombox https://freebears.com/tdk-boombox
with a good sound. At the moment I have a boombox with 2 speakers, USB input,
CDs and radio. I bought about 5 years ago. A lot of time has passed, and I want
more quality. I watched jvc rv-nb70, but was discontinued. Sharp GX-BT9H - seems
to be on sale ... Can you please tell me what are the quality options? Those
two that I wrote above, like and externally, and fit the parameters.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486254#486254
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A brown-out alternative? |
At 04:08 PM 12/11/2018, you wrote:
>
>I received the last bit today (DC/DC converter) and had some time to
>kill this evening, so I built the circuit and tested it successfully
>on the bench.
>
>I used a Ripca 2152C for the relay and this little critter as the
>buck-boost converter:
>https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-35V-to-1-35V-DC-DC-Buck-Boost-Charger-Power-Converter-Module-With-AluminumSG-/123523715069?oid=112837380675
>, along with the diode(s) previously recommended.
>
>It will be a little while before I reach the point with my panel
>upgrade to glass before I can confirm it really prevents a brownout.
>I will report back when the time comes (hopefully in 2-3 weeks from now).
Excellent!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on Grounding |
IGNORE - NOT A REGISTERED MEMBER OF THE LIST - IGNORE
At 11:00 AM 12/12/2018, you wrote:
>
>Good evening. Looking for a portable boombox
>https://freebears.com/tdk-boombox with a good sound. At the moment I
>have a boombox with 2 speakers, USB input, CDs and radio. I bought
>about 5 years ago. A lot of time has passed, and I want more
>quality. I watched jvc rv-nb70, but was discontinued. Sharp GX-BT9H
>- seems to be on sale ... Can you please tell me what are the
>quality options? Those two that I wrote above, like and externally,
>and fit the parameters.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
At 12:12 AM 12/11/2018, you wrote:
>For those of us who do not care about limiting the current, is there
>a cheaper way of getting 20A between 5 and 30V?
That's going to be a 600W supply . . . pretty rare
in the constellation of off-shore offerings to hobbyists.
Fixed voltage supplies in that power class are readily
available, here's one example
https://tinyurl.com/y6tw6k6o
Adjustable supplies with that capability
are more likely to be found as used,
lab grade power supplies like this
excellent buy
https://tinyurl.com/ybgkh4ov
. . . but trust me, supplies in this
power class are capable of much smoke.
You will come to LOVE that current
limiting feature.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
That excellent buy costs $92 to ship. It must be big and heavy.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486278#486278
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
At 12:42 PM 12/13/2018, you wrote:
>
>That excellent buy costs $92 to ship. It must be big and heavy.
Yup . . . probably 40 pounds. They're rack mounted
supplies about 9 inches high. I have one on my
bench. Had it about 15 years and it was
10-15 years old when I got it. It's HP . . . built
to last. Probably cost about $3000 new.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
At 12:42 PM 12/13/2018, you wrote:
>
>That excellent buy costs $92 to ship. It must be big and heavy.
Yup . . . probably 40 pounds. They're rack mounted
supplies about 9 inches high. I have one on my
bench. Had it about 15 years and it was
10-15 years old when I got it. It's HP . . . built
to last. Probably cost about $3000 new.
CORRECTION. Closer to 40 years old when I
got it and they're 93 pounds.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
Bob,
In the recent weeks/months I "think" I saw what appear to me to be
contradicting posts regarding the use of star washers.
In one discussion I thought you said that star washers are never used in
the current path on any certified airplanes. I think the reason was that
they prevent the gas tight seal that will inhibit corrosion.
Then, in a second discussion about bus bar construction using brass bars, I
thought you said to be sure to use a star washer under each terminal.
Could you clear up my confusions as to your approach to using star washers
in an aircraft electrical system?
Thanks,
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lyn Robertson <lyn.robertson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap bench supply? |
The HP stands for =9Cheavy product=9D. ;-)
On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 12:03 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 12:42 PM 12/13/2018, you wrote:
>
>
> That excellent buy costs $92 to ship. It must be big and heavy.
>
>
> Yup . . . probably 40 pounds. They're rack mounted
> supplies about 9 inches high. I have one on my
> bench. Had it about 15 years and it was
> 10-15 years old when I got it. It's HP . . . built
> to last. Probably cost about $3000 new.
>
> CORRECTION. Closer to 40 years old when I
> got it and they're 93 pounds.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
Hi Ken;
I think star washers would make good electrical contact, but I don't like them
against aluminum, as they can initiate cracks.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2018 1:21:13 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: star washers
Bob,
In the recent weeks/months I "think" I saw what appear to me to be contradicting
posts regarding the use of star washers.
In one discussion I thought you said that star washers are never used in the current
path on any certified airplanes. I think the reason was that they prevent
the gas tight seal that will inhibit corrosion.
Then, in a second discussion about bus bar construction using brass bars, I thought
you said to be sure to use a star washer under each terminal.
Could you clear up my confusions as to your approach to using star washers in an
aircraft electrical system?
Thanks,
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
At 03:21 PM 12/13/2018, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>In the recent weeks/months I "think" I saw what
>appear to me to be contradicting posts regarding the use of star washers.
>
>In one discussion I thought you said that star
>washers are never used in the current path on
>any certified airplanes. I think the reason was
>that they prevent the gas tight seal that will inhibit corrosion.
>
>Then, in a second discussion about bus bar
>construction using brass bars, I thought you
>said to be sure to use a star washer under each terminal.
>
>Could you clear up my confusions as to your
>approach to using star washers in an aircraft electrical system?=C2
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ken
I spent a few minutes searching the term
'star washers' in the list archives. Generally,
the use of star washers in the electrical path
was discouraged. If used at all, they were
for mechanical security (i.e. used under a nut).
Couldn't look at all the search hits, but the
few I found were consistent with the above.
Just for grins, I checked a Brand-C parts
catalog for battery contactor installations
and found this image:
Emacs!
Here we see a lockwasher called out as part
of the assembly. It's used under a nut that
secures a terminal post to the 'wing' of
an H6041 mil-style contactor. It doesn't
have a numerical call-out meaning its not
a cataloged spare part as far as Cessna
is concerned. In fact, it's part of the
contactor assembly as supplied by Cutler-Hammer
(item 15). I'm not sure why the catalog
illustrator chose to explode these parts
off the as-supplied assembly. From an OEM
service manual perspective, there was no
reason to disassemble that stud.
I also found some un-flagged star washers
on vendor-supplied assemblies but in each
case, the washer was under a nut . . . not
part of the current path. As a factory
policy, metal locknuts were the
preferred anti-loosening technology for
threaded fasteners.
Electrical conductor pathways were made
up with flat, clean and sometimes malleable
conductors (crimped terminals) being brought
together in gas-tight union with no
intermediate enhancements. Sometimes a
service manual would call out moisture
proofing by painting the finished joint
with some suitable coating . . . these
were joints located out on structure subject
to moisture incursion by drip, splash
or condensation.
B&C supplies star washers with the firewall
forest-of-tabs ground block. All the circuit
breaker manufacturers supply lock washers under
the heads of their screws for terminal attachment.
Again, these are intended to enhance mechanical
integrity of the fastener outside the current
pathway.
An interesting aside . . .
While cruising through the electrical installation
data I found this image I had forgotten
about . . .
Emacs!
Somewhere in my archives, I have a letter from
the head-shed of single engine electrical systems
rejecting my proposal for replacing the too-warm,
panel dimming rheostats with a remotely mounted
array of power transistors on heat sinks. This
would have been about 1964 or thereabouts.
He offered a litany of down-sides . . .
A about 5 years later, the same idea cropped up
across town on the light twins . . . a short
time later, solid state dimming migrated into the
single engine airplanes. We COULD have beat
the twin engine line to this enhancement by
several years. Oh well . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROGER <revenson(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Poor Man's Battery Capacity Tester |
Recently built the tester described in "Battery Replacement: A Plan for Throwing
in the Towel".
Then I tested it with a one-year old battery (PC-680). It operated 2.25 hrs. before
the light went off. I thought this was pretty good.
I read 12v. at the battery immediately after test completion. That surprised me,
I had expected it to be lower...maybe 10 or 11 volts before the light would
go out.
But since the relay used was a 12v relay, I should have known a 12v relay would
drop out at 12 volts! I learned something most of you probably already knew!
Roger E.
Have a blessed Christmas!
Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Battery Capacity Tester |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
A relay will drop out at a MUCH lower voltage than its pull in voltage, perhaps
one half or less. The battery tester relay drop out voltage is determined by
the transistor base circuit. Very soon after the battery circuit is opened,
the battery voltage starts to recover.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486300#486300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
Thanks. I now understand how a star washer under the nut is not in the
current path (a concept that had eluded me). As an aside, is there any
preference as to inside vs outside teeth on the washer?
On Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 06:02 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com wrote:
> At 03:21 PM 12/13/2018, you wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> In the recent weeks/months I "think" I saw what appear to me to be
> contradicting posts regarding the use of star washers.
>
> In one discussion I thought you said that star washers are never used in
> the current path on any certified airplanes. I think the reason was that
> they prevent the gas tight seal that will inhibit corrosion.
>
> Then, in a second discussion about bus bar construction using brass bars,
> I thought you said to be sure to use a star washer under each terminal.
>
> Could you clear up my confusions as to your approach to using star washer
s
> in an aircraft electrical system?=C3=82
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken
>
>
> I spent a few minutes searching the term
> 'star washers' in the list archives. Generally,
> the use of star washers in the electrical path
> was discouraged. If used at all, they were
> for mechanical security (i.e. used under a nut).
>
> Couldn't look at all the search hits, but the
> few I found were consistent with the above.
>
> Just for grins, I checked a Brand-C parts
> catalog for battery contactor installations
> and found this image:
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> Here we see a lockwasher called out as part
> of the assembly. It's used under a nut that
> secures a terminal post to the 'wing' of
> an H6041 mil-style contactor. It doesn't
> have a numerical call-out meaning its not
> a cataloged spare part as far as Cessna
> is concerned. In fact, it's part of the
> contactor assembly as supplied by Cutler-Hammer
> (item 15). I'm not sure why the catalog
> illustrator chose to explode these parts
> off the as-supplied assembly. From an OEM
> service manual perspective, there was no
> reason to disassemble that stud.
>
> I also found some un-flagged star washers
> on vendor-supplied assemblies but in each
> case, the washer was under a nut . . . not
> part of the current path. As a factory
> policy, metal locknuts were the
> preferred anti-loosening technology for
> threaded fasteners.
>
> Electrical conductor pathways were made
> up with flat, clean and sometimes malleable
> conductors (crimped terminals) being brought
> together in gas-tight union with no
> intermediate enhancements. Sometimes a
> service manual would call out moisture
> proofing by painting the finished joint
> with some suitable coating . . . these
> were joints located out on structure subject
> to moisture incursion by drip, splash
> or condensation.
>
> B&C supplies star washers with the firewall
> forest-of-tabs ground block. All the circuit
> breaker manufacturers supply lock washers under
> the heads of their screws for terminal attachment.
> Again, these are intended to enhance mechanical
> integrity of the fastener outside the current
> pathway.
>
> An interesting aside . . .
>
> While cruising through the electrical installation
> data I found this image I had forgotten
> about . . .
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
>
> Somewhere in my archives, I have a letter from
> the head-shed of single engine electrical systems
> rejecting my proposal for replacing the too-warm,
> panel dimming rheostats with a remotely mounted
> array of power transistors on heat sinks. This
> would have been about 1964 or thereabouts.
>
> He offered a litany of down-sides . . .
>
> A about 5 years later, the same idea cropped up
> across town on the light twins . . . a short
> time later, solid state dimming migrated into the
> single engine airplanes. We COULD have beat
> the twin engine line to this enhancement by
> several years. Oh well . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Inside or outside teeth do not matter as long as the teeth are under the nut.
But some outside star washer diameters are big enough so that the teeth are outside
of the nut circumference. For that reason, I prefer inside diameter teeth.
Speaking of lock washers, what we know as split ring lock washers are not really
lock washers at all. In fact, they allow fasteners to loosen sooner than
plain flat washers. There is a YouTube video by Nord Lock demonstrating this.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486302#486302
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
At 11:00 AM 12/14/2018, you wrote:
>Thanks. I now understand how a star washer under the nut is not in
>the current path (a concept that had eluded me). As an aside, is
>there any preference as to inside vs outside teeth on the washer?
Given that the locking effect is really
just a 'friction enhancement' it stands
to reason that you want the greatest
practical torque moment as measured from
the center of rotation. It follows that
external teeth would offer the greatest
impediment to rotation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
At 11:16 AM 12/14/2018, you wrote:
>
>Inside or outside teeth do not matter as long as the teeth are under
>the nut. But some outside star washer diameters are big enough so
>that the teeth are outside of the nut circumference. For that
>reason, I prefer inside diameter teeth.
> Speaking of lock washers, what we know as split ring lock washers
> are not really lock washers at all. In fact, they allow fasteners
> to loosen sooner than plain flat washers. There is a YouTube video
> by Nord Lock demonstrating this.
Many, if not most joints on electrical system
threaded fasteners are made up with only
flat washshers. Given aviation's preference
for fine pitch threads, taking a nut up to
design specs for torque probably makes it
as 'locked' as it will ever be.
The #1 antagonist to make up pressure is
rotational vibration imparted by the WIRE
crimped into the terminal under the nut.
This is why I've been partial to welding
cable for fat wires. VERY flexible and
minimal transmission of wire motion
to the threaded fastener.
Most of this is pretty academic. I've
opened joints that had been in service
for decades that took significant break-away
torque to move the fastener. This in spite
of no 'locking' feature on or under the nut.
I.e. the original installer was paying attention.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
Thanks. Although "academic" I have found the responses quite educational.
Ken
On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 9:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:16 AM 12/14/2018, you wrote:
>
>
> Inside or outside teeth do not matter as long as the teeth are under the
> nut. But some outside star washer diameters are big enough so that the
> teeth are outside of the nut circumference. For that reason, I prefer
> inside diameter teeth.
> Speaking of lock washers, what we know as split ring lock washers are
> not really lock washers at all. In fact, they allow fasteners to loosen
> sooner than plain flat washers. There is a YouTube video by Nord Lock
> demonstrating this.
>
>
> Many, if not most joints on electrical system
> threaded fasteners are made up with only
> flat washshers. Given aviation's preference
> for fine pitch threads, taking a nut up to
> design specs for torque probably makes it
> as 'locked' as it will ever be.
>
> The #1 antagonist to make up pressure is
> rotational vibration imparted by the WIRE
> crimped into the terminal under the nut.
> This is why I've been partial to welding
> cable for fat wires. VERY flexible and
> minimal transmission of wire motion
> to the threaded fastener.
>
> Most of this is pretty academic. I've
> opened joints that had been in service
> for decades that took significant break-away
> torque to move the fastener. This in spite
> of no 'locking' feature on or under the nut.
>
> I.e. the original installer was paying attention.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
Joe, What about the Rotax split washers that have both ends turned the same
direction?
Rick
On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 11:23 AM user9253 wrote:
>
> Inside or outside teeth do not matter as long as the teeth are under the
> nut. But some outside star washer diameters are big enough so that the
> teeth are outside of the nut circumference. For that reason, I prefer
> inside diameter teeth.
> Speaking of lock washers, what we know as split ring lock washers are
> not really lock washers at all. In fact, they allow fasteners to loosen
> sooner than plain flat washers. There is a YouTube video by Nord Lock
> demonstrating this.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486302#486302
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
> Joe, What about the Rotax split washers that have both ends turned the same direction?
I am not familiar with Rotax split washers. Where are they used on the Rotax?
The prop bolts on my Rotax have wedge-lock washers, no safety wire required. Matco
breaks also use wedge-lock washers.
When wedge-lock (Nord Lock) washers are used, it is actually harder to loosen a
fastener than to tighten it.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486317#486317
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
| From: | Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org> |
I love Nord Lock washers even though they're expensive. I used them on
all the battery connections in the truck I converted to electric. I
check them every 6 months and have never found one coming loose.
--Rick
On 12/14/2018 10:27 PM, user9253 wrote:
> I am not familiar with Rotax split washers. Where are they used on the
> Rotax?
> The prop bolts on my Rotax have wedge-lock washers, no safety wire required.
Matco breaks also use wedge-lock washers.
> When wedge-lock (Nord Lock) washers are used, it is actually harder to loosen
a fastener than to tighten it.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Transistor Dimmers |
| From: | Paul Millner <millner(at)me.com> |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Somewhere in my archives, I have a letter from
> the head-shed of single engine electrical systems
> rejecting my proposal for replacing the too-warm,
> panel dimming rheostats with a remotely mounted
> array of power transistors on heat sinks. This
> would have been about 1964 or thereabouts.
>
> He offered a litany of down-sides . . .
>
> A about 5 years later, the same idea cropped up
> across town on the light twins . . . a short
> time later, solid state dimming migrated into the
> single engine airplanes. We COULD have beat
> the twin engine line to this enhancement by
> several years. Oh well . . .
There was that AD on 172s with those rheostats in the overhead panel...
as the panel aged, heated, and deformed, the rheostat contacts would
contact ground, and start a nice little fire fueled by the plastic panel
and surrounding materials...
Of course, those of us blessed with the transistor dimmers got good at
replacing the 2N3203 power transistors (and later the RCA equivalent
replacements), 'cause there was no current limiting, and even a
momentary short, easy to do when wiggling a plastic overlay panel, would
blow the transistor. A one ohm resistor in series with the load would
nicely current limit so that the transistor wouldn't blow... not
elegant, but it worked! :-)
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transistor Dimmers |
>
>There was that AD on 172s with those rheostats in the overhead
>panel... as the panel aged, heated, and deformed, the rheostat
>contacts would contact ground, and start a nice little fire fueled
>by the plastic panel and surrounding materials...
>
>Of course, those of us blessed with the transistor dimmers got good
>at replacing the 2N3203 power transistors (and later the RCA
>equivalent replacements), 'cause there was no current limiting, and
>even a momentary short, easy to do when wiggling a plastic overlay
>panel, would blow the transistor. A one ohm resistor in series with
>the load would nicely current limit so that the transistor wouldn't
>blow... not elegant, but it worked! :-)
Oh yeah . . . forgot about that. Same problem
at Beech. Seems that the assembly line would
go through a couple of dimmer assemblies before
they cleaned all the shorts out of the post-lites
installations. Got to revisit the dimmer issues
for Beech while I was at ElectroMech. I designed
a 4-channel incandescent/1-channel E.L. supply with
all four outputs short circuit tolerant. I think
they still build that for the Bonanzas and Barons.
Electromech Electronics Circuit Board
I found it interesting that all three of the featured
products on ElectroMech's electronic products promo
http://www.electromech.com/images/data-sheets/Electronics.pdf
are devices I designed for Beech back in the 80's . . .
Gee, I would think they had some something newer
since I worked there!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLEN MATEJCEK <fly4grins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | lock washers for electrics |
>
> I stopped into the local hardware store a while back to get some
> phosphorous bronze star washers for fat wire bolt ups, but the fella there
> insisted he'd never heard of such a thing and that they didn't carry them.
> About two minutes later I was in the checkout line, washers in hand...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: star washers |
At 10:27 AM 12/15/2018, you wrote:
>I love Nord Lock washers even though they're expensive. I used them
>on all the battery connections in the truck I converted to electric.
>I check them every 6 months and have never found one coming loose.
>
>--Rick
Those are a pretty cool product. There's
a constellation of youtube videos on the
technology at
https://tinyurl.com/yb7h38kv
This design is not limited by friction
but by the relative hardness of washer
and that of the nut and base
surfaces. The outside faces of the Nord
washer pair must displace metal and
'dig in'.
I suspect that star washers, fabricated
from steels on the same class as Nord
washers would see a quantum jump in
performance.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Buy Apple iPhone Xs Max (Website www.esellibuy.com) $999CAD |
| From: | "senStco" <senStco(at)esellibuy.com> |
Buy Apple iPhone Xs Max
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486353#486353
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Com transmit blanking out VOR CDI |
| From: | "Airdog77" <Airdog77(at)gmail.com> |
Don,
Just ran across this post and am wondering if you ever resolved your issue?
I'm 'close' to finishing up a Long-EZ and have a Garmin GPS unit for COM1 and NAV1,
but was considering the VAL 2KR for COM2 controlled via a GRT HXr.
I of course have the Jim Weir foil com and nav antennas as well, so again am very
curious if you were able to resolve your VOR interference issue?
Cheers,
Wade
--------
Airdog
Wade Parton
Building Long-EZ N916WP
www.longezpush.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486360#486360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2018 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2018 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors.
It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums
possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection
up and running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2018 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc
Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | what is the truth about gps antennas? |
| From: | "kjlpdx" <kevinlane55(at)gmail.com> |
I'm interested in hearing from an engineer who might know about what really goes
on with my stratus esg gps antenna. they say to use RG400 cable, 10' minimum,
and never paint the antenna. they also told me the strength ratings should run
in the 30's. I have 3' of RG400 with a mechanical 90 elbow, I spray painted
the antenna flat black and mounted it on the glareshield of my RV. my readings
are all in the 40's. they told me this shows an overdriven condition.
so why use low impedance cable then need 10'? my iFly740 and Lowrance 1000 gps's
have antennas with much smaller cables. the iFly shows WAAS grade accuracy,
using an antenna 1/4 the size of the stratus RAMI antenna.
when does being overdriven prove to be a problem? is this a situation where I could
add more mechanical connectors to increase impedance rather than more cable
length?
I get the feeling things get written and then forever repeated, such as never paint
an antenna, without asking any questions. could I use a different antenna
than the RAMI brand? should I not worry about any of this and just go fly?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486450#486450
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Read this thread:
http://forum.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16766060&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=4eec20ad70d380aa54524dd467494a91
While none of the postings were by engineers, their replies are based on experience.
Stein owns an avionics company. He is the expert. Follow his recommendations.
If shorter cable must be used, consider RG-58.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486456#486456
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
At 09:23 PM 12/19/2018, you wrote:
>
>I'm interested in hearing from an engineer who
>might know about what really goes on with my
>stratus esg gps antenna. they say to use RG400
>cable, 10' minimum, and never paint the antenna.
>they also told me the strength ratings should
>run in the 30's. I have 3' of RG400 with a
>mechanical 90=C2=B0 elbow, I spray painted the
>antenna flat black and mounted it on the
>glareshield of my RV. my readings are all in the
>40's. they told me this shows an overdriven condition.
>so why use low impedance cable then need 10'? my
>iFly740 and Lowrance 1000 gps's have antennas
>with much smaller cables. the iFly shows WAAS
>grade accuracy, using an antenna 1/4 the size of the stratus RAMI antenna.
>when does being overdriven prove to be a
>problem? is this a situation where I could add
>more mechanical connectors to increase impedance
>rather than more cable length?
>I get the feeling things get written and then
>forever repeated, such as never paint an
>antenna, without asking any questions. could I
>use a different antenna than the RAMI brand?
>should I not worry about any of this and just go fly?
Paint MIGHT degrade antenna performance
but without laboratory grade testing, you
don't know about YOUR paint. Hence, easiest
way to deal with it is never paint. Now,
if you have a painted antenna and the receiver
is still got good signal numbers, then
the 99% sure THAT paint is not an issue.
OVER-DRIVEN? Never heard of such a thing
in GPS receivers. RG400 has an attenuation
figure on the order of 16db typical to 20 db
maximum PER 100 FEET at GPS frequencies.
Assume worst at 20db/100' for a 10' feeder cable,
shortening it to ZERO feet would raise the
signal by 2db Maximum, probably less. This
is trivial.
Color be skeptical . . .
Antenna dimensions are only
loosely related to performance. Physical
and electrical things INSIDE make the
difference . . . and the technology
is now so old that manufacturing a good
antenna is child's play.
You certainly want to minimize connections
but don't loose any sleep over it if you've
added one for enhanced maintenance.
I've got a GPS cable on my bench signal generator
that is 20' long and RG174 style (relatively
high attenuation) that drives the GPS disciplined
reference oscillator . . . it gets stood up
in less than 2 minutes even after being off
for weeks.
There's been a lot of hangar-lore floating
around the aviation environs concerning
things technical for over a century. Sadly,
many 'field representatives' of major
suppliers are not all that cognizant of
foundations in physics for the products
they sell. Stories not backed up by
measurement and/or demonstration are
suspect. GPS is no exception.
If anyone encounters a 'factory representative'
who offers less than comfortable advice,
shoot me their name and phone number.
The proof of the pudding is in the flying.
You'll be getting error messages when an
if the receiver is being improperly serviced
by what's coming down the coax.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection
behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator
(Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally since
then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had failed
on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that the
insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost completely
gone.
Questions:
1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage incident
before putting the plane back in service?
2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga or
is a crimp connector required?
Thanks,
john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse-able link |
At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
>
>Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection
>behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the
>alternator (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved
>normally since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The
>crimp had failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection
>revealed that the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link
>was almost completely gone.
>
>Questions:
>
>1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage
>incident before putting the plane back in service?
>
>2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the
>22ga or is a crimp connector required?
I would really like to have that fusible link
assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
a new one?
When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
20A indefinitely in the open air.
Some combination of factors stacked up to
cause this particular link to suffer
damage. A good place to start is careful
examination of the link.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuse-able link |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/20/2018 3:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection
>> behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator
>> (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally
>> since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had
>> failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that
>> the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost
>> completely gone.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> 1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage
>> incident before putting the plane back in service?
>>
>> 2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga
>> or is a crimp connector required?
>
> I would really like to have that fusible link
> assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
> a new one?
>
> When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
> evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
>
> That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
> demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
> 20A indefinitely in the open air.
>
> Some combination of factors stacked up to
> cause this particular link to suffer
> damage. A good place to start is careful
> examination of the link.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Sounds like the failure was in the joint, so... Less than perfect crimp,
followed by years of increasing corrosion in the joint, causing
resistance heating in the joint?
I solder/heatshrink my fuselinks, but I trust my soldering skills (a
couple of careers that required a decent skillset).
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuse-able link |
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
I'll fish it out of the trash and send it to you.
john
On 12/20/2018 2:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection
>> behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator
>> (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally
>> since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had
>> failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that
>> the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost
>> completely gone.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> 1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage
>> incident before putting the plane back in service?
>>
>> 2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga
>> or is a crimp connector required?
>
> I would really like to have that fusible link
> assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
> a new one?
>
> When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
> evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
>
> That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
> demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
> 20A indefinitely in the open air.
>
> Some combination of factors stacked up to
> cause this particular link to suffer
> damage. A good place to start is careful
> examination of the link.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuse-able link |
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
I forgot to mention that this is a pretty faithful Z13/8 with dual pmags
and an S700-2-10 for off/battery/alternator.
john
On 12/20/2018 3:11 PM, Charlie England wrote:
> On 12/20/2018 3:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection
>>> behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the
>>> alternator (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved
>>> normally since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The
>>> crimp had failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection
>>> revealed that the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link
>>> was almost completely gone.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>>
>>> 1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage
>>> incident before putting the plane back in service?
>>>
>>> 2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the
>>> 22ga or is a crimp connector required?
>>
>> I would really like to have that fusible link
>> assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
>> a new one?
>>
>> When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
>> evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
>>
>> That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
>> demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
>> 20A indefinitely in the open air.
>>
>> Some combination of factors stacked up to
>> cause this particular link to suffer
>> damage. A good place to start is careful
>> examination of the link.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
> Sounds like the failure was in the joint, so... Less than perfect
> crimp, followed by years of increasing corrosion in the joint, causing
> resistance heating in the joint?
>
> I solder/heatshrink my fuselinks, but I trust my soldering skills (a
> couple of careers that required a decent skillset).
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Need help with replacement connector pins for KT76A |
| From: | "jjshultz" <jjshultz(at)cablemo.net> |
Can someone help me find a source for replacement pins for a KT76A transponder
connector. I'm not sure of the name of that connector, but it is a 24-pin molded
plastic unit, with two rows of 12 pins, and the pins are not cylindrical but
flat.
If someone has a digikey or mouser part number that would be fantastic!
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486480#486480
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with replacement connector pins for KT76A |
The pins were discontinued by molex about a decade ago, but this guy still h
as stock. He=99s probably the only supplier in the world, now.
https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=CECPIN100
On Dec 21, 2018, at 21:49, jjshultz wrote:
Can someone help me find a source for replacement pins for a KT76A transpond
er connector. I'm not sure of the name of that connector, but it is a 24-pi
n molded plastic unit, with two rows of 12 pins, and the pins are not cylind
rical but flat.
If someone has a digikey or mouser part number that would be fantastic!
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486480#486480
==========================
========
==========================
========
==========================
========
==========================
========
==========================
========
==========================
========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with replacement connector pins for KT76A |
Well, apart from the eBay merchants at $1/pin, that is....
On Dec 21, 2018, at 23:06, Alec Myers wrote:
The pins were discontinued by molex about a decade ago, but this guy still h
as stock. He=99s probably the only supplier in the world, now.
https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=CECPIN100
On Dec 21, 2018, at 21:49, jjshultz wrote:
Can someone help me find a source for replacement pins for a KT76A transpond
er connector. I'm not sure of the name of that connector, but it is a 24-pi
n molded plastic unit, with two rows of 12 pins, and the pins are not cylind
rical but flat.
If someone has a digikey or mouser part number that would be fantastic!
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486480#486480
nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gisp; this year's Terrific Free Incen
tive Gifts provided
* My Pilot Store http://www.matronics.============
==========================
==============; - MATRONICS WEB FORUM"ht
tp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://w=======================
==========================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help with replacement connector pins for KT76A |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Eewww, *those* pins=2E My fix, at least for experimentals, is solder, wire,
and dsub connectors=2E
=81=A3Charlie=8B
On Dec 21, 2018, 11:11
PM, at 11:11 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
>The pins were di
scontinued by molex about a decade ago, but this guy
>still has stock=2E He
=99s probably the only supplier in the world, now=2E
>
>https://www
=2Emikesarcade=2Ecom/cgi-bin/store=2Epl?sku=CECPIN100
>
>
>On Dec 21, 201
8, at 21:49, jjshultz wrote:
>
>--> AeroElectric-L
ist message posted by: "jjshultz"
>
>
>Can someone
help me find a source for replacement pins for a KT76A
>transponder connect
or=2E I'm not sure of the name of that connector, but
>it is a 24-pin mold
ed plastic unit, with two rows of 12 pins, and the
>pins are not cylindrica
l but flat=2E
>
>If someone has a digikey or mouser part number that would
be fantastic!
>
>Jeff
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forum
s=2Ematronics=2Ecom/viewtopic=2Ephp?p=486480#486480
>
>
>==
=======
>================
==================
>=====
====
>===================
===============
>========
=
>======================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Need help with replacement connector pins for KT76A |
There=99s a reason many those arcade pins are cheap. They are
simply brass plated tin (which is probably fine for some wires, but not
for others). the =9Creal=9D pins are gold flashed
(and silver), and as you noted discontinued long ago. Those of us who
have some left do charge a lot, but that=99s because they just
don=99t exist at the OEM level anymore. Whenever you see a solid
silver or solid gold looking pin, be aware they aren=99t what you
think they are.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of Alec Myers
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need help with replacement connector
pins for KT76A
Well, apart from the eBay merchants at $1/pin, that is....
On Dec 21, 2018, at 23:06, Alec Myers > wrote:
The pins were discontinued by molex about a decade ago, but this guy
still has stock. He=99s probably the only supplier in the world,
now.
https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=CECPIN100
On Dec 21, 2018, at 21:49, jjshultz > wrote:
>
Can someone help me find a source for replacement pins for a KT76A
transponder connector. I'm not sure of the name of that connector, but
it is a 24-pin molded plastic unit, with two rows of 12 pins, and the
pins are not cylindrical but flat.
If someone has a digikey or mouser part number that would be fantastic!
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486480#486480
< span="">nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gisp; this year's
Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
* My Pilot Store
http://www.matronics.==================
=========; <http://www.mypilotstorenbsp;
-Matt%20Dralle,%20List%20Admin.%3c/=============
=========%3c/span%3e%3cbr%3e%3cs> - MATRONICS
WEB FORUM"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<="" spanp; &nnbsp; -->=""
http://w======================
====
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with replacement connector pins for |
KT76A
At 09:14 AM 12/22/2018, you wrote:
>Eewww, *those* pins. My fix, at least for
>experimentals, is solder, wire, and dsub connectors.
>
>Charlie
>On Dec 21, 2018, at 11:11 PM, Alec Myers
><alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:
>The pins were discontinued by molex about a
>decade ago, but this guy still has stock. He=99s
>probably the only supplier in the world, now.
>
>https://www.m
ikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=CECPIN100
>
>
>On Dec 21, 2018, at 21:49, jjshultz
><jjshultz(at)cablemo.net> wrote:
>
>"jjshultz" <jjshultz(at)cablemo.net>
>
>Can someone help me find a source for
>replacement pins for a KT76A transponder
>connector. I'm not sure of the name of that
>connector, but it is a 24-pin molded plastic
>unit, with two rows of 12 pins, and the pins are not cylindrical but flat.
>
>If someone has a digikey or mouser part number that would be fantastic!
>
>Jeff
Two choices: I may have some original, open-barrel
crimp pins around here if you don't find them
elsewhere. I belive the connector you are wrestling
with is this one
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_Waldom/Avionics_Connector
_Plug_15003.jpg
and these pins
https://tinyurl.com/y7nranof
which are obsolete and rarely stocked.
I do have some of these
Emacs!
Which you can purchase here:
https://tinyurl.com/y98m7ph9
or I can send you one at no charge.
I'll dig around to see if I can find the
Molex KK pins.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with replacement connector pins for |
KT76A
Molex never made a "brass plated tin connector.
https://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0008050302_CRIMP_TERMINALS.xml
Theyre a brass body, plated nickel for the wire termination, and gold at the mating
surface. I believe molex did make a nickel plate all over version, but the
ones that Mike sells at not those.
I have some from Mike, and theyre definitely gold plated at the mating surface.
On Dec 22, 2018, at 4:30 PM, Stein Bruch wrote:
Theres a reason many those arcade pins are cheap. They are simply brass plated
tin (which is probably fine for some wires, but not for others). the real pins
are gold flashed (and silver), and as you noted discontinued long ago. Those
of us who have some left do charge a lot, but thats because they just dont exist
at the OEM level anymore. Whenever you see a solid silver or solid gold looking
pin, be aware they arent what you think they are.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Alec Myers
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need help with replacement connector pins for KT76A
Well, apart from the eBay merchants at $1/pin, that is....
On Dec 21, 2018, at 23:06, Alec Myers wrote:
The pins were discontinued by molex about a decade ago, but this guy still has
stock. Hes probably the only supplier in the world, now.
https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=CECPIN100
On Dec 21, 2018, at 21:49, jjshultz wrote:
Can someone help me find a source for replacement pins for a KT76A transponder
connector. I'm not sure of the name of that connector, but it is a 24-pin molded
plastic unit, with two rows of 12 pins, and the pins are not cylindrical but
flat.
If someone has a digikey or mouser part number that would be fantastic!
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486480#486480
< span="">nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gisp; this year's Terrific Free
Incentive Gifts provided
* My Pilot Store http://www.matronics.===========================; - MATRONICS WEB FORUM"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<="" spanp; &nnbsp; -->="" http://w==========================
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
Hi Kevin:
You are 300% right to question Old Wive's Tails.
The Paint Story is not without some merit. It stems from the idea of how
the Color was produced. Black and Gray for example could come from a
CARBON. Carbon is conductive, not highly so but conductive. After all
Carbon Resistors are exactly that Carbon and Conductive.
The old Green, Copper and Bronze have Copper and Bronze metals in them.
White paint can have Titanium Dioxide in it and titanium is metal and
slightly conductive.
There are also paints such as primers which have Zinc in them.
Well, you can see the thought process, that conductive paints can cause
some problems.
So, why take the chance... The industry makes a general Old Wive's Tail
statement of Do Not Paint GPS Antennas.
Of course the Pigment of paints have changed over the years, too bad the
Old Wive's Tails have a stronger following than the process of common
sense.
What YOU can do is read the Ingredients List of what makes the paint the
color (Pigment) and see if any of the above items are listed. ALSO, you
can look up the MSDS for the paint.
Next: -
OVER DRIVEN: - We should be so lucky.
YES! There is such a thing. It is also know in Receiver Theory as Front
End Over Load.
Too much signal is received and causes SPLATTER - Too much signal covering
too wide a bandwidth.
The 'Active" GPS Antennas do have amplifiers built into them. They
usually range between 10 to 40 dB Gain.
The rule of dB is every 3 dB doubles your signal. So, YES, in theory if you
have a 40 dB gain antenna you could have 40/3 = 13 times the
un-amplified signal. That could be too much for the receiver to handle.
Of course there is a loss in the coax, loss in each of the connectors and
an additional loss in the 90 Deg connector.
So, if an engineer sits down with the slide-ruler the NUMBERS would say
YES, there is too much signal coming down the RG-400. SO! Why not be
smarter than the Engineer - Save your Money - Buy RG-58/AU and run the
shortest length possible? Buy It - HELL! I have a 150 foot spool! But
NOooooo.... Common Sense is over ruled by Sales Pitch and owners spend
$4.00 per foot for RG-400 and they buy 10 foot when only 3 foot is need for
the run. 10 Foot @ $4 = $40 Vs 3 Foot @ $0.75 = $2.25.
So Kevin, you did VERY - VERY GOOD!
Guess What! I did the EXACT same thing with the Stratus ESG coax situation
as you. I also mounted it on my Glare Shield. But, I have a carper over
the antenna so I did not have to paint the antenna.
Works Great, Works Fine - FM!
Barry
message posted by: "kjlpdx"
>
> I'm interested in hearing from an engineer who might know about what
> really goes on with my stratus esg gps antenna. they say to use RG400
> cable, 10' minimum, and never paint the antenna. they also told me the
> strength ratings should run in the 30's. I have 3' of RG400 with a
> mechanical 90=C3=82=C2=B0 elbow, I spray painted the antenna flat black a
nd mounted
> it on the glareshield of my RV. my readings are all in the 40's. they tol
d
> me this shows an overdriven condition.
> so why use low impedance cable then need 10'? my iFly740 and Lowrance 100
0
> gps's have antennas with much smaller cables. the iFly shows WAAS grade
> accuracy, using an antenna 1/4 the size of the stratus RAMI antenna.
> when does being overdriven prove to be a problem? is this a situation
> where I could add more mechanical connectors to increase impedance rather
> than more cable length?
> I get the feeling things get written and then forever repeated, such as
> never paint an antenna, without asking any questions. could I use a
> different antenna than the RAMI brand? should I not worry about any of th
is
> and just go fly?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
It's an old wive's tale that a 40 dB gain is 40/3 = 13 times power gain o
ver 0 dB.
The decibel is a ratio of two physical properties expressed mathematically
using logarithmic base 10.=C2- When referring to power, below are the cal
culated values using the equation dB = 10xLog10(P/Po):
=C2-=C2-=C2- 0 dB = 1=C2-=C2-=C2- 3 dB = 1.995 = ~2=C2-
=C2-=C2- 6 dB = 3.981 = ~4=C2-=C2-=C2- 9 dB = 7.95=C2-
= ~8=C2- 10 dB = 10.0=C2- 20 dB = 100.0=C2- 30 dB = 1000.0=C2
- 40 dB = 10,000.0
So 40 DB represents a ratio of 10,000, not 13.=C2- If 0 dB = 1 milliWat
t, then 40 dB = 10 Watts.
Everything else you say below is correct except that RF engineers, as well
as LiDAR engineers, refer to too much signal as saturation, not splatter.
=C2- Maybe I'm hanging out with a different bunch of engineers, but we us
e what the literature says.
Henador Titzoff
l.com> wrote:
Hi Kevin:
=C2-You are 300% right to question Old Wive's=C2-Tails.The Paint Story
is not without some merit. It stems from the idea of how the Color was prod
uced.=C2- Black and Gray for example could come from a CARBON.=C2- Carb
on is conductive, not highly so but conductive.=C2- After all Carbon Resi
stors are exactly that Carbon and Conductive.The old Green, Copper and Bron
ze have Copper and Bronze metals in them.White paint can have Titanium Diox
ide in it and titanium is metal and slightly conductive.There are also pain
ts such as primers which have Zinc in them.=C2-=C2-Well, you can see th
e thought process, that conductive paints can cause some problems.So, why t
ake the chance...=C2- The industry makes a general Old Wive's Tail statem
ent of Do Not Paint GPS Antennas.Of course the Pigment of paints have chang
ed over the years, too bad the Old Wive's Tails have a stronger following t
han the process of common sense.=C2-What YOU can do is read the Ingredien
ts List of what makes the paint the color (Pigment) and see if any of the a
bove items are listed.=C2- ALSO, you can look up the MSDS for the paint.
Next: -=C2-OVER DRIVEN: - We should be so lucky.YES!=C2- There is such
a thing.=C2- It is also know in Receiver Theory=C2-as Front End Over Lo
ad.Too much signal is received and causes SPLATTER=C2-- Too much signal c
overing too wide a bandwidth.The 'Active" GPS=C2- Antennas do=C2- have
amplifiers=C2-built into them.=C2- They usually range between 10 to 40
dB Gain.The rule of dB is every 3 dB doubles your signal. So, YES, in theor
y=C2-if you have a 40 dB gain antenna you could have 40/3 = 13 times th
e un-amplified=C2-signal.=C2- That could be too much for the receiver t
o handle.Of course there is a loss in the coax, loss in each of the connect
ors and an additional loss in the 90 Deg connector.So, if an engineer sits
down with the slide-ruler=C2-the NUMBERS would say YES, there is too much
signal coming=C2-down the RG-400.=C2- SO!=C2-Why not be smarter than
the Engineer - Save your Money - Buy RG-58/AU and run the shortest length
possible?=C2- Buy It - HELL!=C2- I have a 150 foot spool!=C2- But NOo
oooo....=C2- =C2-Common Sense is over ruled by Sales Pitch and owners s
pend $4.00 per foot for RG-400 and they buy 10 foot when only 3 foot is nee
d for the run.=C2- 10 Foot=C2-@ $4 = $40 Vs 3 Foot=C2-@ $0.75 = $
2.25.=C2-=C2-So Kevin,=C2- you did VERY - VERY GOOD!
Guess What!=C2- I did the EXACT same thing with the Stratus ESG coax situ
ation as you.=C2- I also mounted it on my Glare Shield.=C2- But, I have
a carper over the antenna so I did not have to paint the antenna.
Works Great, Works Fine - FM!
Barry
messageposted by: "kjlpdx"
I'm interested in hearing from an engineer who might know about whatreally
goes on with my stratus esg gps antenna. they say to use RG400cable, 10' mi
nimum, and never paint the antenna. they also told me thestrength ratings s
hould run in the 30's. I have 3' of RG400 with amechanical 90=C3=82=C2=B0 e
lbow, I spray painted the antenna flat black and mountedit on the glareshie
ld of my RV. my readings are all in the 40's. theytold me this shows an ove
rdriven condition.
so why use low impedance cable then need 10'? my iFly740 and Lowrance1000 g
ps's have antennas with much smaller cables. the iFly shows WAASgrade accur
acy, using an antenna 1/4 the size of the stratus RAMIantenna.
when does being overdriven prove to be a problem? is this a situationwhere
I could add more mechanical connectors to increase impedance ratherthan mor
e cable length?
I get the feeling things get written and then forever repeated, such asneve
r paint an antenna, without asking any questions. could I use adifferent an
tenna than the RAMI brand? should I not worry about any ofthis and just go
fly?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
40dB is 40/3 = 13.3 doublings, or a ratio of 2^13.3, which is about 10,000
, as you say.
On Dec 22, 2018, at 21:10, Henador Titzoff wrote
:
It's an old wive's tale that a 40 dB gain is 40/3 = 13 times power gain ov
er 0 dB.
The decibel is a ratio of two physical properties expressed mathematically u
sing logarithmic base 10. When referring to power, below are the calculated
values using the equation dB = 10xLog10(P/Po):
0 dB = 1
3 dB = 1.995 = ~2
6 dB = 3.981 = ~4
9 dB = 7.95 = ~8
10 dB = 10.0
20 dB = 100.0
30 dB = 1000.0
40 dB = 10,000.0
So 40 DB represents a ratio of 10,000, not 13. If 0 dB = 1 milliWatt, the
n 40 dB = 10 Watts.
Everything else you say below is correct except that RF engineers, as well a
s LiDAR engineers, refer to too much signal as saturation, not splatter. Ma
ybe I'm hanging out with a different bunch of engineers, but we use what the
literature says.
Henador Titzoff
> wrote:
Hi Kevin:
You are 300% right to question Old Wive's Tails.
The Paint Story is not without some merit. It stems from the idea of how the
Color was produced. Black and Gray for example could come from a CARBON. C
arbon is conductive, not highly so but conductive. After all Carbon Resisto
rs are exactly that Carbon and Conductive.
The old Green, Copper and Bronze have Copper and Bronze metals in them.
White paint can have Titanium Dioxide in it and titanium is metal and slight
ly conductive.
There are also paints such as primers which have Zinc in them.
Well, you can see the thought process, that conductive paints can cause some
problems.
So, why take the chance... The industry makes a general Old Wive's Tail sta
tement of Do Not Paint GPS Antennas.
Of course the Pigment of paints have changed over the years, too bad the Old
Wive's Tails have a stronger following than the process of common sense.
What YOU can do is read the Ingredients List of what makes the paint the col
or (Pigment) and see if any of the above items are listed. ALSO, you can lo
ok up the MSDS for the paint.
Next: -
OVER DRIVEN: - We should be so lucky.
YES! There is such a thing. It is also know in Receiver Theory as Front En
d Over Load.
Too much signal is received and causes SPLATTER - Too much signal covering t
oo wide a bandwidth.
The 'Active" GPS Antennas do have amplifiers built into them. They usuall
y range between 10 to 40 dB Gain.
The rule of dB is every 3 dB doubles your signal. So, YES, in theory if you h
ave a 40 dB gain antenna you could have 40/3 = 13 times the un-amplified s
ignal. That could be too much for the receiver to handle.
Of course there is a loss in the coax, loss in each of the connectors and an
additional loss in the 90 Deg connector.
So, if an engineer sits down with the slide-ruler the NUMBERS would say YES,
there is too much signal coming down the RG-400. SO! Why not be smarter th
an the Engineer - Save your Money - Buy RG-58/AU and run the shortest length
possible? Buy It - HELL! I have a 150 foot spool! But NOooooo.... Comm
on Sense is over ruled by Sales Pitch and owners spend $4.00 per foot for RG
-400 and they buy 10 foot when only 3 foot is need for the run. 10 Foot @ $
4 = $40 Vs 3 Foot @ $0.75 = $2.25.
So Kevin, you did VERY - VERY GOOD!
Guess What! I did the EXACT same thing with the Stratus ESG coax situation a
s you. I also mounted it on my Glare Shield. But, I have a carper over the
antenna so I did not have to paint the antenna.
Works Great, Works Fine - FM!
Barry
message posted by: "kjlpdx"
>
> I'm interested in hearing from an engineer who might know about what reall
y goes on with my stratus esg gps antenna. they say to use RG400 cable, 10' m
inimum, and never paint the antenna. they also told me the strength ratings s
hould run in the 30's. I have 3' of RG400 with a mechanical 90=C3=82=C2=B0 e
lbow, I spray painted the antenna flat black and mounted it on the glareshie
ld of my RV. my readings are all in the 40's. they told me this shows an ove
rdriven condition.
> so why use low impedance cable then need 10'? my iFly740 and Lowrance 1000
gps's have antennas with much smaller cables. the iFly shows WAAS grade acc
uracy, using an antenna 1/4 the size of the stratus RAMI antenna.
> when does being overdriven prove to be a problem? is this a situation wher
e I could add more mechanical connectors to increase impedance rather than m
ore cable length?
> I get the feeling things get written and then forever repeated, such as ne
ver paint an antenna, without asking any questions. could I use a different a
ntenna than the RAMI brand? should I not worry about any of this and just go
fly?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
Alec:
I did say "Rule of Thumb". I did not look up if the dB gain expressed in
the manual is voltage or power, but I'm pretty sure it would be voltage.
And the rule of thumb is the voltage signal will double with every 3 dB of
gain. Ya got me... I did not sit down with my slide rule and work out the
voltage gain, I am just trying to show a relative number that non
engineers can work with.
But, your numbers are incorrect. A 10,000:1 dB ratio gain would be more
like 80 dB's not 40 dB's.
See: *Common Gains and Losses Expressed in Decibels*
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-FactorRatioLevelDecibel.htm
Barry
On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 11:31 PM Alec Myers wrote:
> 40dB is 40/3 = 13.3 doublings, or a ratio of 2^13.3, which is about
> 10,000, as you say.
>
> On Dec 22, 2018, at 21:10, Henador Titzoff
> wrote:
>
> It's an old wive's tale that a 40 dB gain is 40/3 = 13 times power gain
> over 0 dB.
>
> The decibel is a ratio of two physical properties expressed mathematicall
y
> using logarithmic base 10. When referring to power, below are the
> calculated values using the equation dB = 10xLog10(P/Po):
>
> 0 dB = 1
> 3 dB = 1.995 = ~2
> 6 dB = 3.981 = ~4
> 9 dB = 7.95 = ~8
> 10 dB = 10.0
> 20 dB = 100.0
> 30 dB = 1000.0
> 40 dB = 10,000.0
>
> So 40 DB represents a ratio of 10,000, not 13. If 0 dB = 1 milliWatt,
> then 40 dB = 10 Watts.
>
> Everything else you say below is correct except that RF engineers, as wel
l
> as LiDAR engineers, refer to too much signal as saturation, not splatter.
> Maybe I'm hanging out with a different bunch of engineers, but we use wha
t
> the literature says.
>
> Henador Titzoff
>
>
> flyadive(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Kevin:
>
>
> You are 300% right to question Old Wive's Tails.
> The Paint Story is not without some merit. It stems from the idea of how
> the Color was produced. Black and Gray for example could come from a
> CARBON. Carbon is conductive, not highly so but conductive. After all
> Carbon Resistors are exactly that Carbon and Conductive.
> The old Green, Copper and Bronze have Copper and Bronze metals in them.
> White paint can have Titanium Dioxide in it and titanium is metal and
> slightly conductive.
> There are also paints such as primers which have Zinc in them.
> Well, you can see the thought process, that conductive paints can cause
> some problems.
> So, why take the chance... The industry makes a general Old Wive's Tail
> statement of Do Not Paint GPS Antennas.
> Of course the Pigment of paints have changed over the years, too bad the
> Old Wive's Tails have a stronger following than the process of common
> sense.
> What YOU can do is read the Ingredients List of what makes the paint the
> color (Pigment) and see if any of the above items are listed. ALSO, you
> can look up the MSDS for the paint.
>
> Next: -
> OVER DRIVEN: - We should be so lucky.
> YES! There is such a thing. It is also know in Receiver Theory as Front
> End Over Load.
> Too much signal is received and causes SPLATTER - Too much signal coverin
g
> too wide a bandwidth.
> The 'Active" GPS Antennas do have amplifiers built into them. They
> usually range between 10 to 40 dB Gain.
> The rule of dB is every 3 dB doubles your signal. So, YES, in theory if
> you have a 40 dB gain antenna you could have 40/3 = 13 times the
> un-amplified signal. That could be too much for the receiver to handle.
> Of course there is a loss in the coax, loss in each of the connectors and
> an additional loss in the 90 Deg connector.
> So, if an engineer sits down with the slide-ruler the NUMBERS would say
> YES, there is too much signal coming down the RG-400. SO! Why not be
> smarter than the Engineer - Save your Money - Buy RG-58/AU and run the
> shortest length possible? Buy It - HELL! I have a 150 foot spool! But
> NOooooo.... Common Sense is over ruled by Sales Pitch and owners spend
> $4.00 per foot for RG-400 and they buy 10 foot when only 3 foot is need f
or
> the run. 10 Foot @ $4 = $40 Vs 3 Foot @ $0.75 = $2.25.
> So Kevin, you did VERY - VERY GOOD!
>
> Guess What! I did the EXACT same thing with the Stratus ESG coax
> situation as you. I also mounted it on my Glare Shield. But, I have a
> carper over the antenna so I did not have to paint the antenna.
>
> Works Great, Works Fine - FM!
>
> Barry
>
>
> message posted by: "kjlpdx"
>
>
> I'm interested in hearing from an engineer who might know about what
> really goes on with my stratus esg gps antenna. they say to use RG400
> cable, 10' minimum, and never paint the antenna. they also told me the
> strength ratings should run in the 30's. I have 3' of RG400 with a
> mechanical 90=C3=82=C2=B0 elbow, I spray painted the antenna flat black a
nd mounted
> it on the glareshield of my RV. my readings are all in the 40's. they tol
d
> me this shows an overdriven condition.
> so why use low impedance cable then need 10'? my iFly740 and Lowrance 100
0
> gps's have antennas with much smaller cables. the iFly shows WAAS grade
> accuracy, using an antenna 1/4 the size of the stratus RAMI antenna.
> when does being overdriven prove to be a problem? is this a situation
> where I could add more mechanical connectors to increase impedance rather
> than more cable length?
> I get the feeling things get written and then forever repeated, such as
> never paint an antenna, without asking any questions. could I use a
> different antenna than the RAMI brand? should I not worry about any of th
is
> and just go fly?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
3dB is a doubling of whatever you measure. (Actually a factor of 10^0.3 =
1.995)
Of course you have to say what you=99re comparing with, so we talk ab
out dBA, dBV, dBm, for sound level relative to the quietest detectable by th
e human ear, volts, or power (in mW), respectively.
If you=99re talking about Voltage then 40dB is by definition a ratio o
f 10,000 to 1. Which, into the same load impedance corresponds to a power ra
tio of 10^8 to 1.
On Dec 23, 2018, at 09:04, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Alec:
I did say "Rule of Thumb". I did not look up if the dB gain expressed in th
e manual is voltage or power, but I'm pretty sure it would be voltage. And t
he rule of thumb is the voltage signal will double with every 3 dB of gain.
Ya got me... I did not sit down with my slide rule and work out the voltag
e gain, I am just trying to show a relative number that non engineers can w
ork with.
But, your numbers are incorrect. A 10,000:1 dB ratio gain would be more lik
e 80 dB's not 40 dB's.
See: Common Gains and Losses Expressed in Decibels
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-FactorRatioLevelDecibel.htm
Barry
> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 11:31 PM Alec Myers wrote:
> 40dB is 40/3 = 13.3 doublings, or a ratio of 2^13.3, which is about 10,0
00, as you say.
>
> On Dec 22, 2018, at 21:10, Henador Titzoff wro
te:
>
> It's an old wive's tale that a 40 dB gain is 40/3 = 13 times power gain o
ver 0 dB.
>
> The decibel is a ratio of two physical properties expressed mathematically
using logarithmic base 10. When referring to power, below are the calculat
ed values using the equation dB = 10xLog10(P/Po):
>
> 0 dB = 1
> 3 dB = 1.995 = ~2
> 6 dB = 3.981 = ~4
> 9 dB = 7.95 = ~8
> 10 dB = 10.0
> 20 dB = 100.0
> 30 dB = 1000.0
> 40 dB = 10,000.0
>
> So 40 DB represents a ratio of 10,000, not 13. If 0 dB = 1 milliWatt, t
hen 40 dB = 10 Watts.
>
> Everything else you say below is correct except that RF engineers, as well
as LiDAR engineers, refer to too much signal as saturation, not splatter. M
aybe I'm hanging out with a different bunch of engineers, but we use what th
e literature says.
>
> Henador Titzoff
>
>
om> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Kevin:
>
>
> You are 300% right to question Old Wive's Tails.
> The Paint Story is not without some merit. It stems from the idea of how t
he Color was produced. Black and Gray for example could come from a CARBON.
Carbon is conductive, not highly so but conductive. After all Carbon Resi
stors are exactly that Carbon and Conductive.
> The old Green, Copper and Bronze have Copper and Bronze metals in them.
> White paint can have Titanium Dioxide in it and titanium is metal and slig
htly conductive.
> There are also paints such as primers which have Zinc in them.
> Well, you can see the thought process, that conductive paints can cause so
me problems.
> So, why take the chance... The industry makes a general Old Wive's Tail s
tatement of Do Not Paint GPS Antennas.
> Of course the Pigment of paints have changed over the years, too bad the O
ld Wive's Tails have a stronger following than the process of common sense.
> What YOU can do is read the Ingredients List of what makes the paint the c
olor (Pigment) and see if any of the above items are listed. ALSO, you can l
ook up the MSDS for the paint.
>
> Next: -
> OVER DRIVEN: - We should be so lucky.
> YES! There is such a thing. It is also know in Receiver Theory as Front E
nd Over Load.
> Too much signal is received and causes SPLATTER - Too much signal covering
too wide a bandwidth.
> The 'Active" GPS Antennas do have amplifiers built into them. They usua
lly range between 10 to 40 dB Gain.
> The rule of dB is every 3 dB doubles your signal. So, YES, in theory if yo
u have a 40 dB gain antenna you could have 40/3 = 13 times the un-amplifie
d signal. That could be too much for the receiver to handle.
> Of course there is a loss in the coax, loss in each of the connectors and a
n additional loss in the 90 Deg connector.
> So, if an engineer sits down with the slide-ruler the NUMBERS would say YE
S, there is too much signal coming down the RG-400. SO! Why not be smarter t
han the Engineer - Save your Money - Buy RG-58/AU and run the shortest lengt
h possible? Buy It - HELL! I have a 150 foot spool! But NOooooo.... Com
mon Sense is over ruled by Sales Pitch and owners spend $4.00 per foot for R
G-400 and they buy 10 foot when only 3 foot is need for the run. 10 Foot @ $
4 = $40 Vs 3 Foot @ $0.75 = $2.25.
> So Kevin, you did VERY - VERY GOOD!
>
> Guess What! I did the EXACT same thing with the Stratus ESG coax situatio
n as you. I also mounted it on my Glare Shield. But, I have a carper over t
he antenna so I did not have to paint the antenna.
>
> Works Great, Works Fine - FM!
>
> Barry
>
>
> message posted by: "kjlpdx"
>>
>> I'm interested in hearing from an engineer who might know about what real
ly goes on with my stratus esg gps antenna. they say to use RG400 cable, 10'
minimum, and never paint the antenna. they also told me the strength rating
s should run in the 30's. I have 3' of RG400 with a mechanical 90=C3=82=C2=B0
elbow, I spray painted the antenna flat black and mounted it on the glaresh
ield of my RV. my readings are all in the 40's. they told me this shows an o
verdriven condition.
>> so why use low impedance cable then need 10'? my iFly740 and Lowrance 100
0 gps's have antennas with much smaller cables. the iFly shows WAAS grade ac
curacy, using an antenna 1/4 the size of the stratus RAMI antenna.
>> when does being overdriven prove to be a problem? is this a situation whe
re I could add more mechanical connectors to increase impedance rather than m
ore cable length?
>> I get the feeling things get written and then forever repeated, such as n
ever paint an antenna, without asking any questions. could I use a different
antenna than the RAMI brand? should I not worry about any of this and just g
o fly?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
>3dB is a doubling of whatever you measure. (Actually a factor of 10^0.3 = 1.995)
I see this is actually true only for power quantities and power-like quantities.
For field quantities and field-like quantities 3dB is a ratio of 10^0.15 = 1.41.
So a signal ratio of 40dB is ten thousand times the power and 100 times the
voltage.
Thats what you get when you put the engineers in charge of defining units instead
of the physicists...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
>
> That=99s what you get when you put the engineers in charge of defin
ing units
> instead of the physicists...
>
I TOTALLY AGREE!
I have NEVER seen a more argumentative bunch than Engineers.
They all went to collage.
They all took the same courses.
They all learned the SAME physics. <-- Well,they should have!
They all learned the same electronics.
Yet they disagree on more things than Congress.
Three Engineers, an Electrical Engineer, a Mechanical Engineer and a Civil
Engineer were discussing what kind of an engineer GOD must be.
The Electrical Engineer said: He must be an Electrical Engineer, think
about it:
And consider the miles of nerve courses in the body. Consider all the
nerve endings. Consider all the synapse=99s in the brain sending ele
ctrical
impulses all throughout the body. GOD is an Electrical Engineer!
The Mechanical Engineer spoke up and said: He must be a Mechanical
Engineer, think about it:
And consider all of the bones throughout the body. Consider all the
muscles pulling against each other supporting the bones. Consider how all
the bones and muscles can reproduce as they become weak or damaged. GOD is
a Mechanical Engineer!
Then the Civil Engineer spoke up and said: He MUST be a Civil Engineer
=93
And with that the other two engineers broke into a raucous laughter. Again
the Civil Engineer spoke up and said: Think about it:
Who else other than a Civil Engineer would put a waste dump right around
the corner from a playground?
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lyn Robertson <lyn.robertson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
There was a fourth person in the story, a politician, who went last. He
said, =9CGod was most certainly a politician. The Bible says in the b
eginning
there was chaos. Who do you think created the chaos?=9D
Lyn
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 08:18 FLYaDIVE wrote:
> That=99s what you get when you put the engineers in charge of defin
ing units
>> instead of the physicists...
>>
>
> I TOTALLY AGREE!
>
> I have NEVER seen a more argumentative bunch than Engineers.
> They all went to collage.
> They all took the same courses.
> They all learned the SAME physics. <-- Well,they should have!
> They all learned the same electronics.
> Yet they disagree on more things than Congress.
>
> Three Engineers, an Electrical Engineer, a Mechanical Engineer and a Civi
l
> Engineer were discussing what kind of an engineer GOD must be.
>
> The Electrical Engineer said: He must be an Electrical Engineer, think
> about it:
>
> And consider the miles of nerve courses in the body. Consider all the
> nerve endings. Consider all the synapse=99s in the brain sending e
lectrical
> impulses all throughout the body. GOD is an Electrical Engineer!
>
>
> The Mechanical Engineer spoke up and said: He must be a Mechanical
> Engineer, think about it:
>
> And consider all of the bones throughout the body. Consider all the
> muscles pulling against each other supporting the bones. Consider how al
l
> the bones and muscles can reproduce as they become weak or damaged. GOD
is
> a Mechanical Engineer!
>
>
> Then the Civil Engineer spoke up and said: He MUST be a Civil Engineer
=93
> And with that the other two engineers broke into a raucous laughter. Aga
in
> the Civil Engineer spoke up and said: Think about it:
>
> Who else other than a Civil Engineer would put a waste dump right around
> the corner from a playground?
>
>
> Barry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Simpson <wsimpso1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Z-14 Switches Preferred... |
My first post. I have to assume this has been checked out before, but could not
find it...
>From my fresh copy of AeroElectric Connection, I have found some surprises...
and I am not accustomed to doing circuit design - I am a Mechanical Engineer.
Firstissue:
Page 11-21, Fig 11-22 is supposed to be an excerpt from Z-14 (which I plan to use
on my electrically dependent engine IFR ship) showing a diode bridge for operation
of the cross feed contactor;
Appendix Z-14 in my book shows three 1N5400 diodes.
Tracing the diodes in each case, these appear to be the same electrically, but
which is the preferred set of parts for this system?
Second issue. The starter cross feed switch on Z-14:
In Appendix Z-14, the switch is labeled S700-2-7, with a Circle L, yet the drawing
shows momentary-on the start side but stays on in the cross feed position.
2-7 is an (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch, not the (ON)-OFF-ON shown which seems to be an
S700-2-5. Does the circuit self-energize and so does not need the switch to
stay the Crossfeed position? If yes, does it disconnect when we turn off both
masters?
Then on page 17-10, Bob proposes the S700-2-50 for the combined starter and cross
feed.
So, which switch is the now current right way to build this circuit? Do I use a
diode bridge or three 1N5400 diodes? Do I use the 2-7, the 2-5, or the 2-50?
And "for extra credit", why do we go with each version?
Bill Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 12:01 PM Lyn Robertson
wrote:
> There was a fourth person in the story, a politician, who went last. He
> said, =9CGod was most certainly a politician. The Bible says in the
beginning
> there was chaos. Who do you think created the chaos?=9D
>
> Lyn
>
But Politicians are not Engineers. For if they were, an engineer, they
would have invented a better way to cover their ass, other than by rhetoric
and at the people's expense.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 Switches Preferred... |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On Dec 23, 2018, 12:10 PM, at 12:10 PM, Bill Simpson wrote:
>My first post=2E I have to assume this has been checked out
before, but
>could not find it=2E=2E=2E
>
>
>>From my fresh copy of AeroEl
ectric Connection, I have found some
>surprises=2E=2E=2E and I am not accus
tomed to doing circuit design - I am a
>Mechanical Engineer=2E Firstissue:
>
>
>Page 11-21, Fig 11-22 is supposed to be an excerpt from Z-14 (which I
>plan to use on my electrically dependent engine IFR ship) showing a
>diode
bridge for operation of the cross feed contactor;
>
>
>Appendix Z-14 in my
book shows three 1N5400 diodes=2E
>
>
>Tracing the diodes in each case, th
ese appear to be the same
>electrically, but which is the preferred set of
parts for this system?
>
>
>Second issue=2E The starter cross feed switch
on Z-14:
>
>
>In Appendix Z-14, the switch is labeled S700-2-7, with a Circ
le L, yet
>the drawing shows momentary-on the start side but stays on in th
e cross
>feed position=2E 2-7 is an (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch, not the (ON)-OFF-
ON
>shown which seems to be an S700-2-5=2E Does the circuit self-energize a
nd
>so does not need the switch to stay the Crossfeed position? If yes,
>do
es it disconnect when we turn off both masters?
>
>
>Then on page 17-10, B
ob proposes the S700-2-50 for the combined starter
>and cross feed=2E
>
>
>So, which switch is the now current right way to build this circuit? Do
>I
use a diode bridge or three 1N5400 diodes? Do I use the 2-7, the 2-5,
>or
the 2-50? And "for extra credit", why do we go with each version?
>
>
>Bill
Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
While were on the subject.
A mathematician, a physicist and an engineer are all asked to examine the hypothesis
that all odd numbers are prime.
The mathematician goes first, saying as follows:
One is prime, three is prime, five is prime, seven is prime, nine ISNT prime, so
the hypothesis fails by counterexample.
Then the physicist, who says:
One is prime, three is prime, five is prime, seven is prime, nine isnt prime, but
well call it experimental error, eleven is prime and thirteen is prime. Thats
enough for me. I accept the hypothesis as true.
Finally the engineer steps up.
One is prime, three is prime, five is prime, seven is prime, nine is prime.
And heres one for the maths nerds amongst us:
Q: Whats green and commutes?
A: An Abeilan grape.
On Dec 23, 2018, at 1:00 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 12:01 PM Lyn Robertson wrote:
There was a fourth person in the story, a politician, who went last. He said, God
was most certainly a politician. The Bible says in the beginning there was
chaos. Who do you think created the chaos?
Lyn
But Politicians are not Engineers. For if they were, an engineer, they would have
invented a better way to cover their ass, other than by rhetoric and at the
people's expense.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 Switches Preferred... |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
My crossfeed does close automatically during cranking if either (or
both) batteries are available.
I have an older version of Z-14 which also incorporates a little 30 amp
automotive relay in the control circuit. It uses a simple ON -OFF switch
that will close the crossfeed whether the battery master is on or off.
(My crossfeed contactor is fed by both hot batt buss's and don't require
the battery master to be on). I leave that crossfeed switch OFF at all
times unless one alternator has failed.
I think you are referring to a later circuit utilizing a 3 position
crossfeed switch. It has a continuous ON, OFF, or momentary crank the
engine position. I would leave that switch in the OFF position unless
cranking or after losing one alternator. The 3 diodes insure that
current from either side of Z-14 can close the contactor. Normally
operating with the crossfeed contactor open insures that your low
voltage warning devices will immediately warn you if one alternator
drops offline.
Ken
On 23/12/2018 2:00 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 23, 2018, at 12:10 PM, Bill Simpson > wrote:
>
> My first post. I have to assume this has been checked out before,
> but could not find it...
>
>
> From my fresh copy of AeroElectric Connection, I have found some
> surprises... and I am not accustomed to doing circuit design - I
> am a Mechanical Engineer. Firstissue:
>
>
> Page 11-21, Fig 11-22 is supposed to be an excerpt from Z-14
> (which I plan to use on my electrically dependent engine IFR ship)
> showing a diode bridge for operation of the cross feed contactor;
>
>
> Appendix Z-14 in my book shows three 1N5400 diodes.
>
>
> Tracing the diodes in each case, these appear to be the same
> electrically, but which is the preferred set of parts for this
> system?
>
>
> Second issue. The starter cross feed switch on Z-14:
>
>
> In Appendix Z-14, the switch is labeled S700-2-7, with a Circle L,
> yet the drawing shows momentary-on the start side but stays on in
> the cross feed position. 2-7 is an (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch, not the
> (ON)-OFF-ON shown which seems to be an S700-2-5. Does the circuit
> self-energize and so does not need the switch to stay the
> Crossfeed position? If yes, does it disconnect when we turn off
> both masters?
>
>
> Then on page 17-10, Bob proposes the S700-2-50 for the combined
> starter and cross feed.
>
>
> So, which switch is the now current right way to build this
> circuit? Do I use a diode bridge or three 1N5400 diodes? Do I use
> the 2-7, the 2-5, or the 2-50? And "for extra credit", why do we
> go with each version?
>
>
> Bill Simpson
>
> Hi Bill,
>
>
> I don't have my book handy, but the 5400 diode(s) are rated at 3A,
> while you can buy almost any rating for the diode block. The block
> is also easier to mount, and easier to heatsink, if required,
> while the 5400s must be soldered to some kind of support. Your
> application would determine what is best for you.
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 Switches Preferred... |
>
>
>Appendix Z-14 in my book shows three 1N5400 diodes.
>
>
>Tracing the diodes in each case, these appear to be the same
>electrically, but which is the preferred set of parts for this system?
Either works fine . . . your choice.
>Second issue. The starter cross feed switch on Z-14:
>
>
>In Appendix Z-14, the switch is labeled S700-2-7, with a Circle L,
>yet the drawing shows momentary-on the start side but stays on in
>the cross feed position. 2-7 is an (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch, not the
>(ON)-OFF-ON shown which seems to be an S700-2-5. Does the circuit
>self-energize and so does not need the switch to stay the Crossfeed
>position? If yes, does it disconnect when we turn off both masters?
>
>
>Then on page 17-10, Bob proposes the S700-2-50 for the combined
>starter and cross feed.
>
>
>So, which switch is the now current right way to build this circuit?
>Do I use a diode bridge or three 1N5400 diodes? Do I use the 2-7,
>the 2-5, or the 2-50? And "for extra credit", why do we go with each version?
2-50 and 2-7 are errors. The latest drawing on
the website shows that the error was corrected
when 2-5 was called out at revision P
Emacs!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
You have a better way to cover your rear than at other people's expense?
com> wrote:
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 12:01 PM Lyn Robertson wr
ote:
There was a fourth person in the story, a politician, who went last. He sai
d, =9CGod was most certainly a politician. The Bible says in the begi
nning there was chaos.=C2- Who do you think created the chaos?=9D
Lyn
But Politicians are not Engineers.=C2- For if they were, an engineer, the
y would have invented a better way to cover their ass, other than by rhetor
ic and at the people's expense.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
Ernest:
You are 100% correct. Sad but true, why do what's right when you can do
what you want and put the blame on someone else. Why dip into your own
pocket when you can steal from someone else. AND steal legally!
Barry
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 10:53 PM Ernest Christley
wrote:
> You have a better way to cover your rear than at other people's expense?
>
m>
> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 12:01 PM Lyn Robertson
> wrote:
>
> There was a fourth person in the story, a politician, who went last. He
> said, =9CGod was most certainly a politician. The Bible says in the
beginning
> there was chaos. Who do you think created the chaos?=9D
>
> Lyn
>
>
> But Politicians are not Engineers. For if they were, an engineer, they
> would have invented a better way to cover their ass, other than by rhetor
ic
> and at the people's expense.
>
> Barry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Are you ready for Requirements For The Collection of |
Glass
| From: | "ahwhglass" <adadasqe0506(at)gmail.com> |
The glass used for that glass curtain wall need to be safety glass, mainly like
Building Tempered Glass, laminated (glued) goblet, insulating glass, fireproof
tumbler, solar control coated cup and low-emission coated glass (High Transmission
Low-E Glass). The specific selection requirements are seeing that follows:
1. Safety glass need to be used for the curtain wall. The thickness on the glass
should not be below 6mm. The thickness from the full glass curtain wall rib
glass can't be less than 12mm.
COUPLE OF. The appearance quality in addition to technical index of drift glass
used for heat-reflecting coated glass shall abide by the requirements of excellent
products or first-class products in the current national standard "Float
Glass".
SEVERAL. The insulating double glazed windows (https://www.ahwhglass.com/Specialties/Insulatedglass/) belonging to the curtain wall should end up being sealed with two stations.
The insulating glass from the exposed frame curtain wall should be made of polysulfide
sealant and butyl sealant. The insulating glass of the semi-hidden frame
curtain wall will likely to be made of silicone structural sealant as well
as butyl sealant; the coated surface should be the second of the actual insulating
glass. Or for the third side.
4, the laminated glass with the curtain wall should be processed by polyvinyl butyral
(PVB) picture dry processing of laminated cup. The thickness of your interlayer
film (PVB) with the point-supported glass curtain wall structure laminated
glass shall not be not as much as 0. 76 mm.
5, tempered glass should adhere to the provisions of GB9963 "tempered glass".
A FEW. All curtain wall glass really should be edge treated.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486527#486527
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
At 09:33 AM 12/23/2018, you wrote:
>
>
> >3dB is a doubling of whatever you measure.
> (Actually a factor of 10^0.3 = 1.995)
>
>I see this is actually true only for power
>quantities and power-like quantities. For field
>quantities and field-like quantities 3dB is a
>ratio of 10^0.15 = 1.41. So a signal ratio of
>40dB is ten thousand times the power and 100 times the voltage.
>
>That=99s what you get when you put the engineers
>in charge of defining units instead of the physicists.
The Bel (or its smaller descendant deciBel) was
derived from concepts in physics. . . as were
many other dimensionless numbers that described
RATIOS of many quantities that do have dimensions.
Look up dimensionless physical constants like
proton to electron mass ratio, Plank's constant,
Coulomb's constant, etc.
Then there are ratios near and dear to aviation
like Mach number, Reynolds number, strain,
and yes . . . even deciBels. The Bel is
always about energy ratios but is still
valid for discussion power. While power
is a rate function, it is proportional to energy
when the rates are defined over the same intervals
of time.
It is proper to discuss ratios of power (like
watts) and amplitudes (like voltage, amps) in
terms of dB if one compensates for the effects of
amplitude on power in the system. This is
accomplished with application of formula
that accounts for the square law effects
of amplitude on power. Hence the constant
for "deci" (10) has to be doubled to 20
when considering ratios of amplitude.
Emacs!
This was no shortcoming on the part of
engineers vs. physicists . . . they've
all been on the same page since day-one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is the truth about gps antennas? |
At 10:13 AM 12/23/2018, you wrote:
>That=99s what you get when you put the engineers
>in charge of defining units instead of the physicists...
>
>
>I TOTALLY AGREE!=C2 =C2
>
>I=C2 have NEVER seen a more argumentative bunch than Engineers.
>They all went=C2 to collage.
>They all took the same courses.
>They all learned the SAME physics.=C2 <-- Well,they should have!
>They all learned the same electronics.
>Yet they disagree on more things than Congress.
I cannot speak for your personal experiences
except to observed that they are far removed
from my own. But in any case, this line
of thought does not advance the mission
of this forum.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
We had a strange event last week with our O-200 powered CH750. After
running the battery down during a fuel gauge calibration that lasted over
an hour, one of our pilots tried to start the engine to taxi back but with
the already depleted battery and a less than perfect start procedure they
gave up after a couple weak start attempts. I walked over to the aircraft
to brief them on a prop start and when I asked for the master on the
starter ran. Shut the master off, cycled the start button rapidly a dozen
times, master on again and the starter ran again. I could hear the starter
relay clicking loudly each time power was applied so it does not seem like
there was a physical failure of the relay but more some electrical short
activating the relay each time power was applied.
The build team inspected the relay and found a loose connection. Tightening
it took the problem from continuous to intermittent; in their words "it's
fixed but it did it again once".
We have removed the relay for replacement, I still think the switch is
suspect but they've decided the problem is the relay. Does the aeroelectric
list think there would be value in cutting open the relay and examining it?
Any suggestions on how best to do so?
Thank you,
Sebastien
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I don't think you have a problem. I think that if the engine didn't
actually start, the starter might not reach enough speed to disengage.
Also, extended cranking at low voltage probably heated the solenoid a
lot, causing sticking in it. After the battery is fully recharged, give
it another try, without cranking more than 10-15 seconds on any try. It
is likely to start, and the starter will disengage normally. You can
test the relay on the bench, without a starter connected, just battery
cable on input side and switchable 12V on ignition terminal, just
activating long enough to see your multi-meter show voltage on the
output terminal.
On 12/24/2018 6:14 PM, Sebastien wrote:
> We had a strange event last week with our O-200 powered CH750. After
> running the battery down during a fuel gauge calibration that lasted
> over an hour, one of our pilots tried to start the engine to taxi back
> but with the already depleted battery and a less than perfect start
> procedure they gave up after a couple weak start attempts. I walked over
> to the aircraft to brief them on a prop start and when I asked for the
> master on the starter ran. Shut the master off, cycled the start button
> rapidly a dozen times, master on again and the starter ran again. I
> could hear the starter relay clicking loudly each time power was applied
> so it does not seem like there was a physical failure of the relay but
> more some electrical short activating the relay each time power was applied.
>
> The build team inspected the relay and found a loose connection.
> Tightening it took the problem from continuous to intermittent; in their
> words "it's fixed but it did it again once".
>
> We have removed the relay for replacement, I still think the switch is
> suspect but they've decided the problem is the relay. Does the
> aeroelectric list think there would be value in cutting open the relay
> and examining it? Any suggestions on how best to do so?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sebastien
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
I say change the relay. (And have done, on two different aircraft, for identical
symptoms.) If the relay sticks on a good engine start it will take the starter
motor with it, unless you shut it down soon, and its hard to spot unless you
have a starter energized lamp. In my case I was lucky, the massive current drain
took the radio out before I took off, but I only worked out why when I heard
the weird grinding noise of the engine driving the locked up starter when
I took my headset off.
That was an O235 engine, similar starter configuration to yours.
Do you have a starter energized lamp?
On Dec 24, 2018, at 21:04, Kelly McMullen wrote:
I don't think you have a problem. I think that if the engine didn't actually start,
the starter might not reach enough speed to disengage.
Also, extended cranking at low voltage probably heated the solenoid a lot, causing
sticking in it. After the battery is fully recharged, give it another try,
without cranking more than 10-15 seconds on any try. It is likely to start, and
the starter will disengage normally. You can test the relay on the bench, without
a starter connected, just battery cable on input side and switchable 12V
on ignition terminal, just activating long enough to see your multi-meter show
voltage on the output terminal.
> On 12/24/2018 6:14 PM, Sebastien wrote:
> We had a strange event last week with our O-200 powered CH750. After running
the battery down during a fuel gauge calibration that lasted over an hour, one
of our pilots tried to start the engine to taxi back but with the already depleted
battery and a less than perfect start procedure they gave up after a couple
weak start attempts. I walked over to the aircraft to brief them on a prop
start and when I asked for the master on the starter ran. Shut the master off,
cycled the start button rapidly a dozen times, master on again and the starter
ran again. I could hear the starter relay clicking loudly each time power was
applied so it does not seem like there was a physical failure of the relay
but more some electrical short activating the relay each time power was applied.
> The build team inspected the relay and found a loose connection. Tightening it
took the problem from continuous to intermittent; in their words "it's fixed
but it did it again once".
> We have removed the relay for replacement, I still think the switch is suspect
but they've decided the problem is the relay. Does the aeroelectric list think
there would be value in cutting open the relay and examining it? Any suggestions
on how best to do so?
> Thank you,
> Sebastien
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
We do not have a starter energized light but we do have a Dynon Skyview so
I'm thinking there must be a way of connecting it to a GP input to display
a warning. Have not checked the Dynon install manual yet.
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 20:50 Alec Myers
> I say change the relay. (And have done, on two different aircraft, for
> identical symptoms.) If the relay sticks on a good engine start it will
> take the starter motor with it, unless you shut it down soon, and it
=99s hard
> to spot unless you have a =9Cstarter energized=9D lamp. In my
case I was lucky,
> the massive current drain took the radio out before I took off, but I onl
y
> worked out why when I heard the weird grinding noise of the engine drivin
g
> the locked up starter when I took my headset off.
>
> That was an O235 engine, similar starter configuration to yours.
>
> Do you have a =9Cstarter energized=9D lamp?
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2018, at 21:04, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> kellym(at)aviating.com>
>
> I don't think you have a problem. I think that if the engine didn't
> actually start, the starter might not reach enough speed to disengage.
> Also, extended cranking at low voltage probably heated the solenoid a lot
,
> causing sticking in it. After the battery is fully recharged, give it
> another try, without cranking more than 10-15 seconds on any try. It is
> likely to start, and the starter will disengage normally. You can test th
e
> relay on the bench, without a starter connected, just battery cable on
> input side and switchable 12V on ignition terminal, just activating long
> enough to see your multi-meter show voltage on the output terminal.
>
> > On 12/24/2018 6:14 PM, Sebastien wrote:
> > We had a strange event last week with our O-200 powered CH750. After
> running the battery down during a fuel gauge calibration that lasted over
> an hour, one of our pilots tried to start the engine to taxi back but wit
h
> the already depleted battery and a less than perfect start procedure they
> gave up after a couple weak start attempts. I walked over to the aircraft
> to brief them on a prop start and when I asked for the master on the
> starter ran. Shut the master off, cycled the start button rapidly a dozen
> times, master on again and the starter ran again. I could hear the starte
r
> relay clicking loudly each time power was applied so it does not seem lik
e
> there was a physical failure of the relay but more some electrical short
> activating the relay each time power was applied.
> > The build team inspected the relay and found a loose connection.
> Tightening it took the problem from continuous to intermittent; in their
> words "it's fixed but it did it again once".
> > We have removed the relay for replacement, I still think the switch is
> suspect but they've decided the problem is the relay. Does the aeroelectr
ic
> list think there would be value in cutting open the relay and examining i
t?
> Any suggestions on how best to do so?
> > Thank you,
> > Sebastien
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | DPSK Unlock on Dynon Xpndr |
I have this "DPSK Unmlock" on my Dynon. The last time it appeared they
changed the unit so this is the second unit to suffer the same thing.
I am interested to know what it means and if anything in my system might be
provoking it.
My aircraft is a Europa with the Rotax Z16 (which you all helped me with
and which is working very well) and I followed manufacturer's instructions
with separating ADSB and Transponder antenna.
I used ADVANCED AIRCRAFT ELECTRONICS HIGH GAIN TRANSPONDER ANTENNA (L2)
from ACS for both transponder and ADSB.
Everything worked normally (they see me on radar and I can see other
traffic). When I get the message, I cycle the transponder and the
message goes away.
So is this something in my system or is it a manufacturing issue?
Thanks and Happy Holidays to all
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DPSK Unlock on Dynon Xpndr |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
This?
http://dynonavionics=2Ecom/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB=2Epl?num=1508284062
=81=A3Charlie=8B
On Dec 25, 2018, 8:44 AM, at 8:44 AM, William Da
niell wrote:
>I have this "DPSK Unmlock"
on my Dynon=2E The last time it appeared they
>changed the unit so this is
the second unit to suffer the same thing=2E
>
>I am interested to know wha
t it means and if anything in my system
>might be
>provoking it=2E
>
>My ai
rcraft is a Europa with the Rotax Z16 (which you all helped me
>with
>and w
hich is working very well) and I followed manufacturer's
>instructions
>wit
h separating ADSB and Transponder antenna=2E
>
>I used ADVANCED AIRCRAFT EL
ECTRONICS HIGH GAIN TRANSPONDER ANTENNA (L2)
>from ACS for both transponder
and ADSB=2E
>
>Everything worked normally (they see me on radar and I can
see other
>traffic)=2E When I get the message, I cycle the transponder a
nd the
>message goes away=2E
>
>So is this something in my system or is it
a manufacturing issue?
>
>Thanks and Happy Holidays to all
>
>Will
>
>
>
>William Daniell
>LONGPORT
>+57 310 295 0744
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is very
different than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared
between those brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar
configuration". Lycoming starters are on the front of the engine,
Continentals on the rear of the engine, just for example. Some may have
a relay (solenoid) mounted on the starter, some do not. You may be right
about replacing relay, given the generally low cost.
Yes, having a starter energized lamp is a good suggestion regardless.
On 12/24/2018 9:45 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
> I say change the relay.
>
> That was an O235 engine, similar starter configuration to yours.
>
> Do you have a starter energized lamp?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DPSK Unlock on Dynon Xpndr |
Thats the one!
But i was wondering if anyone knows why this happens....
Dynon just asked me to send the unit back last time this happened...this is
the second unit with the same issue which seems a little wierd. Maybe it
was a bad batch.
Also without a transponder these days you're grounded. Certainly in
Colombia you cant fly wiithout a working transponder.
Will
On Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 10:18 Charlie England This?
> http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1508284062
>
> Charlie
> On Dec 25, 2018, at 8:44 AM, William Daniell
> wrote:
>>
>> I have this "DPSK Unmlock" on my Dynon. The last time it appeared they
>> changed the unit so this is the second unit to suffer the same thing.
>>
>> I am interested to know what it means and if anything in my system might
>> be provoking it.
>>
>> My aircraft is a Europa with the Rotax Z16 (which you all helped me with
>> and which is working very well) and I followed manufacturer's
>> instructions with separating ADSB and Transponder antenna.
>>
>> I used ADVANCED AIRCRAFT ELECTRONICS HIGH GAIN TRANSPONDER ANTENNA (L2)
>> from ACS for both transponder and ADSB.
>>
>> Everything worked normally (they see me on radar and I can see other
>> traffic). When I get the message, I cycle the transponder and the
>> message goes away.
>>
>> So is this something in my system or is it a manufacturing issue?
>>
>> Thanks and Happy Holidays to all
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> William Daniell
>> LONGPORT
>> +57 310 295 0744
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
On Dec 25, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is very different
than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared between those
brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar configuration.
For sure. I understood Sebastien had a Lycoming O-200, and the aircraft I was writing
about has a lycoming O-235. If he has a Continental O-200 then theyre not
similar.
However the second engine wth which I had a sticky starter solenoid problem was
a Continental IO-470, where the starter adapter is damaged within a few seconds
of a locked up starter contactor, The starter adapter is impossible to reach
without removing the engine from the aircraft. Lycoming - or Continental - I
would take absolutely no chances with running either engine with the slightest
suspicion of a sticky solenoid.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Sorry - I should be less ambiguous. Were talking about sticky starter *contactors*
- regardless of whether the starter has a solenoid or some other engagement
mechanism. A new contactor is about $100 for a PMA one. Princess Auto (I know
Sebastien is in Canada) used to do an intermittent duty 12v contactor of identical
dimensions for CDN$16.
On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:55 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
On Dec 25, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is very different
than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared between those
brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar configuration.
For sure. I understood Sebastien had a Lycoming O-200, and the aircraft I was writing
about has a lycoming O-235. If he has a Continental O-200 then theyre not
similar.
However the second engine wth which I had a sticky starter solenoid problem was
a Continental IO-470, where the starter adapter is damaged within a few seconds
of a locked up starter contactor, The starter adapter is impossible to reach
without removing the engine from the aircraft. Lycoming - or Continental - I
would take absolutely no chances with running either engine with the slightest
suspicion of a sticky solenoid.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Sorry, I didn't know Lycoming made an O-200, this one is a Continental. In
any case we think the problem is in the relay or switch, not the starter
itself.
We are planning on replacing the relay with one of these:
https://aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/starterrelay.php
At $20 it seems a good idea.
What I'm wondering about is how to best cut open the old one in order to
see how the failure may have occurred?
On Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 09:43 Alec Myers
> Sorry - I should be less ambiguous. We=99re talking about sticky st
arter
> *contactors* - regardless of whether the starter has a solenoid or some
> other engagement mechanism. A new contactor is about $100 for a PMA one.
> Princess Auto (I know Sebastien is in Canada) used to do an intermittent
> duty 12v contactor of identical dimensions for CDN$16.
>
>
> On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:55 AM, Alec Myers wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 25, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> kellym(at)aviating.com>
>
> > Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is ver
y
> different than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared
> between those brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar
> configuration=9D.
>
> For sure. I understood Sebastien had a Lycoming O-200, and the aircraft I
> was writing about has a lycoming O-235. If he has a Continental O-200 the
n
> they=99re not similar.
>
> However the second engine wth which I had a sticky starter solenoid
> problem was a Continental IO-470, where the starter adapter is damaged
> within a few seconds of a locked up starter contactor, The starter adapte
r
> is impossible to reach without removing the engine from the aircraft.
> Lycoming - or Continental - I would take absolutely no chances with runni
ng
> either engine with the slightest suspicion of a sticky solenoid.
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
>Sorry, I didn't know Lycoming made an O-200,
After checking, I guess they dont! Sorry for the confusion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
On Dec 25, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>Be very careful with your generalizations. A Continental starter is very different
than a Lycoming starter. There are no models I know of shared between those
brands. So it is pretty unlikely that they are "similar configuration.
For sure. I understood Sebastien had a Lycoming O-200, and the aircraft I was writing
about has a lycoming O-235. If he has a Continental O-200 then theyre not
similar.
However the second engine wth which I had a sticky starter solenoid problem was
a Continental IO-470, where the starter adapter is damaged within a few seconds
of a locked up starter contactor, The starter adapter is impossible to reach
without removing the engine from the aircraft. Lycoming - or Continental - I
would take absolutely no chances with running either engine with the slightest
suspicion of a sticky solenoid.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Sabastien:
There are three test you should do:
1 - Test the Relay
2 - Test the Start Switch
3 - Test the wiring for the Start Switch
Test the Relay - Test 1:
a> Remove the wires connected to the relay.
b> Using an Ohm Meter read across the Contacts
Without power applied to the relay you should read an open.
c> Using an Ohm Meter read across the Coil
You should read some value of resistance.
The issue is: IS there one contact or two?
If one, then the case is your other contact.
AND one contact COULD BE off the INPUT side which would be your B+
d> Using an Ohm Meter read across ONE Coil to Ground (CASE) and then
e> Using an Ohm Meter read across ONE (the other ) Coil to Ground (CASE)
Start Switch Test 2:
a> Remove the wires to the Start Switch.
b> Using an Ohm Meter read across the Contacts
With the switch NOT pressed it should read open
c> Press the Switch.
With the switch pressed it should read closed (zero ohms).
If anything other than above replace the switch.
Test the wiring for the Start Switch Test 3:
a> Since you have the wires already disconnected from the Switch and the
Relay you can do two checks
a1> Across the wires that came off the Start Switch.
They should read open.
a2> From ONE end of a wire from the switch to the other end of the wire
where it connects to the Start Relay.
You should read a close (zero ohms) for each wire.
IF you get anything other than the above - Replace the wires.
OK - Are you ready to POWER TEST the Starter Relay?
IF SO - DISCONNECT IT FROM THE STARTER MOTOR.
Well, it already should have been done if you followed instructions in Test
1.
Using a set of jumper leads.
Run a lead from the Battery + to the INPUT side of the Start Relay.
Run a second lead from the Battery - (Ground) to the Coil terminal of the
relay.
It should snap CLOSED.
Well, it may not IF you have a relay that has two (2) Coil Terminals. Some
relays use an independent + & - connections.
IF you have a single coil terminal your INPUT Battery B+ will be readable
on the OUTPUT relay terminal. Now, here is a TRICK -
Step 1: Read the Voltage across the CLOSED relay terminals. It should
read ZERO!
If you have a voltage that means there is a RESISTANCE internally in the
relay contacts.
Throw the relay away!
Step 2: While CLOSED, take a resistance reading Across the Input & Output.
You should read ZERO Ohms. Why do I call this a TRICK? Because you are
reading a Resistance while there is a voltage on the same terminals.
YEAH! It is possible to read resistance. And, if you do... Throw the
relay away. You want ZERO resistance.
Last test: Does the relay have Diode across the Coil?
1 - It should be installed with the + side of the Diode on the Negative -
side of the Coil.
2 - Check the Diode for Forward to Reverse Bias Resistance. There should
be a Minimum of 10:1 Reverse to Forward.
OR... Just throw it away and replace it with a New Diode.
OR... Of course you could just replace the relay and diode without testing
it. That way you know the circuit has a good relay - But, you have no
proof that the old relay is bad. What about the wires and the Start Switch?
Side Note: I always, well, almost always, use the above procedure ONLY
because sometimes the R&R of the relay is way more time consuming and/or
requires two people. AND, I hate being a Pull & Replace Mechanic. You
would never know if it was the relay or just a bad ground.
Barry
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 8:19 PM Sebastien wrote:
> We had a strange event last week with our O-200 powered CH750. After
> running the battery down during a fuel gauge calibration that lasted over
> an hour, one of our pilots tried to start the engine to taxi back but with
> the already depleted battery and a less than perfect start procedure they
> gave up after a couple weak start attempts. I walked over to the aircraft
> to brief them on a prop start and when I asked for the master on the
> starter ran. Shut the master off, cycled the start button rapidly a dozen
> times, master on again and the starter ran again. I could hear the starter
> relay clicking loudly each time power was applied so it does not seem like
> there was a physical failure of the relay but more some electrical short
> activating the relay each time power was applied.
>
> The build team inspected the relay and found a loose connection.
> Tightening it took the problem from continuous to intermittent; in their
> words "it's fixed but it did it again once".
>
> We have removed the relay for replacement, I still think the switch is
> suspect but they've decided the problem is the relay. Does the aeroelectric
> list think there would be value in cutting open the relay and examining it?
> Any suggestions on how best to do so?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sebastien
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
At 07:14 PM 12/24/2018, you wrote:
>We had a strange event last week with our O-200 powered CH750. After
>running the battery down during a fuel gauge calibration that lasted
>over an hour, one of our pilots tried to start the engine to taxi
>back but with the already depleted battery and a less than perfect
>start procedure they gave up after a couple weak start attempts. I
>walked over to the aircraft to brief them on a prop start and when I
>asked for the master on the starter ran.
The vast majority of starter contactor
sticking events occur during an attempt
to crank the engine with a weak battery.
The fact that you got immediate starter
action on closure of the master switch
says your starter contactor was 'stuck'
shut.
> Shut the master off, cycled the start button rapidly a dozen
> times, master on again and the starter ran again. I could hear the
> starter relay clicking loudly each time power was applied so it
> does not seem like there was a physical failure of the relay but
> more some electrical short activating the relay each time power was applied.
Contacts are welded . . .
>The build team inspected the relay and found a loose connection.
>Tightening it took the problem from continuous to intermittent; in
>their words "it's fixed but it did it again once".
>
>We have removed the relay for replacement, I still think the switch
>is suspect but they've decided the problem is the relay. Does the
>aeroelectric list think there would be value in cutting open the
>relay and examining it? Any suggestions on how best to do so?
Go to a car parts store and pick
up a starter contactor that looks
like the one in the aircraft spruce
catalog . . . it will work just fine.
See if the contactor is marked "diode
suppressed" or has the word diode on it
anywhere or on the packaging.
Emacs!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
At 11:56 AM 12/25/2018, you wrote:
>Sorry, I didn't know Lycoming made an O-200,
>this one is a Continental. In any case we think
>the problem is in the relay or switch, not the starter itself.
>
>We are planning on replacing the relay with one of these:
>
>https://aircraf
tspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/starterrelay.php
>
>At $20=C2 it seems a good idea.
Any similar contactor from your local car-parts
emporium will do nicely . . .
>What I'm wondering about is how to best cut open
>the old one in order to see how the failure may have occurred?
Send it to me and I'll conduct an
'up town' failure analysis and report
back.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Pengilly" <Peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
Dear Aeroelectric People,
I'm in the process of designing an electrical system for a sailplane and am
looking for some advice on selecting a Schottky Diode.
My aim for this system is to avoid the pilot having to manage the battery
power during flight. Ideally the batteries should be switched on before
take-off and nothing more done until they are switched off after landing and
removed for re-charging. It is accepted the batteries will need charging
each night.
The batteries cannot be changed because of the provided battery trays. The
avionics are primarily powered by 2 x 7Ah gell cells. The equipment specs
say the total current drain is 1.7A (including a transponder), therefore it
is quite possible to run short of amps after a long flight, a 6 hour flight
is not unusual, and longer is definitely possible. I suspect the power
numbers are a little on the high side and are also somewhat variable,
depending on radio usage, screen brightness and other factors. Until the
system is in use its difficult to be sure of the electrical load. There is
also a 4Ah battery in the fin for cg management purposes that is usually
kept in reserve to ensure a flight can be completed with power in hand - its
is rarely possible to predict exactly how long a flight will take. Often it
is essential to keep a GPS logger running at all times for competition
scoring purposes, it is desirable the glide computer is operating at the end
of a flight to help with planning the final glide.
This aircraft also has a get-you-home 2 stroke motor that extends from
behind the cockpit to guard against an out-landing, known as a "turbo". A
15Ah gell cell extends and retracts the engine using an electric spindle
drive, it is dive started and has no throttle or generator. I want to make
the engine battery available as a back-up to the avionic batteries.
The problem is to design a system that requires minimum management and
provides maximum endurance. Connecting all batteries to the bus results in
stronger batteries back charging the weaker and wasting power. Installing
regular diodes to prevent the back charging drops too much voltage. Having
to switch batteries in and out manually is bound to lead to increased
workload at the most inconvenient times. I want to run on the main avionic
batteries initially, keeping the engine battery to run the engine when
needed and the fin battery in reserve. Theoretically Schottky Diodes, with
only a 150mv forward voltage, on each battery line will prevent back
charging with an acceptable voltage drop.
It is possible to use a pair of DPDT switches to split the avionic system
and use 2 batteries to power the 2 halves of the system, but allowing one
battery to power all if one depletes before the other. However, if both main
batteries can be connected directly to a single bus system management will
be more straight forward.
I know little about electronic components, and have only confused myself
looking at the various tables. The maximum instantaneous current draw is
around 4.7A on the avionics bus (3.2A for the radio plus 1.5A for other
services), the engine can pull 8A instantaneously when it is raised. I have
only been able to find one device that comes close to meeting what I think I
need, https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/205/L497-1110523.pdf, but this is
quite expensive and is described as a rectifier, not completely sure it is
suitable. This
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rectifier-diodes-schottky-diodes/1023567/ may
be a candidate, but the forward voltage is higher than I would like, it
seems that the temperature must be high (over 100*C) to reduce it to my
150mv target.
Does anyone know of a component that may be suitable? Sketch of architecture
below.
Am I going to have to accept a small overhead in managing the battery power
on a long flight?
Regards, Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Schottky Diode |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I do not think that "back charging" is going to be an issue. There would have
to be a large voltage difference between batteries before one would charge the
other. Just connect the two 7ah batteries in parallel and let them both discharge
simultaneously. A load will draw current from whichever battery has the
highest voltage.
Consider using discrete, through hole, diodes which cost 51 cents each.
https://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Discrete-Semiconductors/Diodes-Rectifiers/Schottky-Diodes-Rectifiers/_/N-ax1mjZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0z63xZ1yuoc72Z1yuoc5bZ1yuoc76&Ns=Pricing%7c0
Or dual diodes are available in a TO-220 case for $1.50
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/SBR10U40CT?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fNX0wTwLhSQZv372G1bq%2fbs%3d
Insulate the mounting tab from aircraft ground.
The stated forward voltage drop is for maximum current. The voltage drop will
be less with less current.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486574#486574
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Schottky Diode |
I'm in the process of designing an electrical system for
a sailplane and am looking for some advice on selecting a Schottky Diode.
Hi Peter, long time no hear!
My aim for this system is to avoid the pilot having to manage the battery
power during flight. Ideally the batteries should be switched on before
take-off and nothing more done until they are switched off after landing
and removed for re-charging. It is accepted the batteries will need charging
each night.
The problem is to design a system that requires minimum management and provides
maximum endurance. Connecting all batteries to the bus results in stronger
batteries back charging the weaker and wasting power.
This is a myth. Batteries cannot charge
batteries. Any number of serviceable
batteries can be connected in parallel
irrespective of capacity. All energy
stored in every battery is available
to the intended task . . . there is
no 'exchange' of energy between batteries.
Installing regular diodes to prevent the back charging drops too much voltage.
Having to switch batteries in and out manually is bound to lead to increased
workload at the most inconvenient times. I want to run on the main avionic
batteries initially, keeping the engine battery to run the engine when needed
and the fin battery in reserve.
A 'reserve' battery seems a confession
as to lack of knowledge of the
total energy needs compared to battery
capacity. The only reason you need
a 'reserve' is to carry out a near-
emergency move because the system went
dark unexpectedly. You should be able
to design the unexpected event . . .
Theoretically Schottky Diodes, with only a 150mv forward voltage, on each
battery line will prevent back charging with an acceptable voltage drop.
Diodes are probably unnecessary . . . pending
further discovery . . .
It is possible to use a pair of DPDT switches to split the avionic system
and use 2 batteries to power the 2 halves of the system, but allowing one
battery to power all if one depletes before the other. However, if both
main batteries can be connected directly to a single bus system management
will be more straight forward.
I'm not so sure than ALL the batteries
cannot be operated in parallel with no
diodes. Further, if capacities of SVLA
batteries prove marginal, have you
considered a lithium system? More capacity
in same volume and weight constraints.
I know little about electronic components, and have only confused myself
looking at the various tables. The maximum instantaneous current draw
is around 4.7A on the avionics bus (3.2A for the radio plus 1.5A for other
services), the engine can pull 8A instantaneously when it is raised.
You need to do a load analysis that seeks to
define your ENERGY requirements. A 15 a.h.
battery JUST to raise and lower the engine
seems huge overkill . . . that's a LOT of energy
to supply a need that persists for mere seconds
per flight cycle.
Does anyone know of a component that may be suitable? Sketch of
architecture below.
Am I going to have to accept a small overhead in managing the battery
power on a long flight?
I think your 'cart' is overrunning the horse
. . .
I would advise some further research and
perhaps experiments to ascertain
real energy requirements. I'm 99% certain
that a system can be devised that needs no
diodes and may well offer energy reserves
that far exceed your greatest expectations.
But we need some real NUMBERS first . . .
Can you share an equipment list? Are
these equipment items in-hand? If
so, what's the possibility of powering
these items up on the bench and getting
good current draw numbers? If not on
your constellation of intended equipment,
how about on examples installed on other
aircraft?
How long is an extend/retract cycle on
the engine?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
Bob,
Cutting open of a relay depends on the design of the relay. If you are
talking the standard hermetically sealed / rolled over edge type, you do
NOT cut it open... You simply grind off the rolled over edge. This can be
done very carefully so none of the metal filings enter the relay. If done
carefully you may even find water inside the relay. That is what I found
in mine!
Next trick: If you replace the relay with the same kind (hermetically
sealed) do the following:
Get a pint of epoxy paint.
Mask the terminals of the relay.
Using a heat gun heat the relay hot enough that you can not touch it.
Then totally submerge the relay in the epoxy paint.
As the relay cools it will suck in the epoxy paint into the rolled edge and
seal out any paint.
NOW! You have a hermetically sealed relay.
Not done yet... Next trick: Make sure you mount the relay so the edge of
the rolled edge is facing DOWN. Now water and ice will not collect.
Barry
On Thursday, December 27, 2018, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 11:56 AM 12/25/2018, you wrote:
>
> Sorry, I didn't know Lycoming made an O-200, this one is a Continental. I
n
> any case we think the problem is in the relay or switch, not the starter
> itself.
>
> We are planning on replacing the relay with one of these:
>
> https://aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/starterrelay.php
>
> At $20=C3=82 it seems a good idea.
>
>
> Any similar contactor from your local car-parts
> emporium will do nicely . . .
>
>
> What I'm wondering about is how to best cut open the old one in order to
> see how the failure may have occurred?
>
>
> Send it to me and I'll conduct an
> 'up town' failure analysis and report
> back.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the
makings of a Crew Chief.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Schottky Diode |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/27/2018 4:43 PM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
>
> Dear Aeroelectric People,
>
> Im in the process of designing an electrical system for a sailplane
> and am looking for some advice on selecting a Schottky Diode.
>
> My aim for this system is to avoid the pilot having to manage the
> battery power during flight. Ideally the batteries should be switched
> on before take-off and nothing more done until they are switched off
> after landing and removed for re-charging. It is accepted the
> batteries will need charging each night.
>
> The batteries cannot be changed because of the provided battery trays.
> The avionics are primarily powered by 2 x 7Ah gell cells. The
> equipment specs say the total current drain is 1.7A (including a
> transponder), therefore it is quite possible to run short of amps
> after a long flight, a 6 hour flight is not unusual, and longer is
> definitely possible. I suspect the power numbers are a little on the
> high side and are also somewhat variable, depending on radio usage,
> screen brightness and other factors. Until the system is in use its
> difficult to be sure of the electrical load. There is also a 4Ah
> battery in the fin for cg management purposes that is usually kept in
> reserve to ensure a flight can be completed with power in hand its
> is rarely possible to predict exactly how long a flight will take.
> Often it is essential to keep a GPS logger running at all times for
> competition scoring purposes, it is desirable the glide computer is
> operating at the end of a flight to help with planning the final glide.
>
> This aircraft also has a get-you-home 2 stroke motor that extends from
> behind the cockpit to guard against an out-landing, known as a
> turbo. A 15Ah gell cell extends and retracts the engine using an
> electric spindle drive, it is dive started and has no throttle or
> generator. I want to make the engine battery available as a back-up to
> the avionic batteries.
>
> The problem is to design a system that requires minimum management and
> provides maximum endurance. Connecting all batteries to the bus
> results in stronger batteries back charging the weaker and wasting
> power. Installing regular diodes to prevent the back charging drops
> too much voltage. Having to switch batteries in and out manually is
> bound to lead to increased workload at the most inconvenient times. I
> want to run on the main avionic batteries initially, keeping the
> engine battery to run the engine when needed and the fin battery in
> reserve. Theoretically Schottky Diodes, with only a 150mv forward
> voltage, on each battery line will prevent back charging with an
> acceptable voltage drop.
>
> It is possible to use a pair of DPDT switches to split the avionic
> system and use 2 batteries to power the 2 halves of the system, but
> allowing one battery to power all if one depletes before the other.
> However, if both main batteries can be connected directly to a single
> bus system management will be more straight forward.
>
> I know little about electronic components, and have only confused
> myself looking at the various tables. The maximum instantaneous
> current draw is around 4.7A on the avionics bus (3.2A for the radio
> plus 1.5A for other services), the engine can pull 8A instantaneously
> when it is raised. I have only been able to find one device that comes
> close to meeting what I think I need,
> https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/205/L497-1110523.pdf, but this is
> quite expensive and is described as a rectifier, not completely sure
> it is suitable. This
> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rectifier-diodes-schottky-diodes/1023567/
> may be a candidate, but the forward voltage is higher than I would
> like, it seems that the temperature must be high (over 100*C) to
> reduce it to my 150mv target.
>
> Does anyone know of a component that may be suitable? Sketch of
> architecture below.
>
> Am I going to have to accept a small overhead in managing the battery
> power on a long flight?
>
> Regards, Peter
>
Hi Peter,
(edit: looks like others have made most of these points while I was
'distracted' with other stuff, but here you go, anyway.)
I'm certainly no expert, but I'll take a swing at a few of the questions.
1. I'd prefer to have a single battery at 14AH, vs 2 @ 7AH, if it's
physically possible to do it. Simpler, and you intend to have a backup
anyway.
2. Gell is not the same thing as the currently common SLA, 'starved
electrolyte' battery. Gel cells may still be available, but they're a
lot more finicky to deal with than a common SLA battery.
3. I have not yet gotten excited about flying a powered a/c with a
lithium-iron battery, but have you considered it for your 'total loss'
system? Charging the battery outside the a/c removes a significant
percentage of risk, and you could carry a *lot* more capacity in a much
lighter package (for a price, of course...).
4. Since knowing your exact loads are a bit more critical than a typical
a/c, rather than look at mfgr data sheets, consider directly measuring
each item's current in actual operation. Most data sheets will show you
a conservative number, to be sure the installer doesn't 'short change'
the device's needs.
5. The Mouser device you linked is a bit of overkill (200A), and will be
a bit of a hassle to mount. The mounting surface is also the cathode,
meaning you'd need to isolate it from the air frame and for safety, from
any heatsink you mount it on. The 2nd one you show has an isolated
mounting tab. But there are hundreds of choices. Here's one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schottky-Diodes-Rectifiers-2X60-Amp-15-Volt-DIODE-MODULE-ISOTOP/273285163944?epid=1718397917&hash=item3fa110aba8:g:cbkAAOSwgd1axcQL:rk:4:pf:0
Another:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-S20SC9M-SCHOTTKY-RECTIFIER-DUAL-COMMON-CATHODE-DIODE-90V-20A-MTO-3P/390680777077?hash=item5af6639175:g:az0AAOxyoahSXtlc:rk:9:pf:0
6. If you can go with one main battery (or parallel the pair of 7As),
there'd only be one switch for the 4A backup. The switch for the 15A
starting battery you will need, regardless of the rest of the architecture.
Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay sticking |
At 08:02 PM 12/27/2018, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Cutting open of a relay depends on the design of
>the relay.=C2 If you are talking the standard hermetically sealed
hermetically sealed implies
absolute atmospheric isolation
between interior and the
environment. Contactors with
rolled on caps are not 'hermetic',
only very secure.
> / rolled over edge type, you do NOT cut it
> open...=C2 You simply grind off the rolled over
> edge.=C2 This can be done very carefully so none
> of the metal filings enter the relay.=C2 If done
> carefully you may even find water inside the
> relay.=C2 That is what I found in mine! =C2
Yep . . . been there a few dozen times.
https://tinyurl.com/p2x7fbl
https://tinyurl.com/kcc26jt
Cessna attempted some DIY sealing techniques
on the whisky barrel relays . . . right
after the noise reducing, floating cowl
was incorporated onto the SE aircraft.
Virtually no help. You could not guarantee
quality of seal. Liquid water sucked in
during a cooling event had to exit as a vapor
over successive atmospheric 'breathing'
cycles . . . i.e. once inside it stayed
inside.
>Not done yet...=C2 Next trick: =C2 Make sure you
>mount the relay so the edge of the rolled edge
>is facing DOWN.=C2 Now water and ice will not collect.
or cap facing down with a #40 drain
hole added right in the center. Now
trapped liquid had a place to get
out.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Schottky Diode |
>
>
>4. Since knowing your exact loads are a bit more critical than a
>typical a/c, rather than look at mfgr data sheets, consider directly
>measuring each item's current in actual operation. Most data sheets
>will show you a conservative number, to be sure the installer
>doesn't 'short change' the device's needs.
BINGO!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Pengilly" <Peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
Hello Bob & all, thanks for your replies.
I am reluctant to go to LiPos as I have a ready supply of =91gelcels=92
(or
whatever they are really!) I know it could be dumb to avoid spending a
couple of hundred =A3=A3/$$ on a $100K aircraft, but if I can make the
gelcels
work I would like to. Getting the system working on the bench is
probably a
good idea, I have nearly all the equipment to hand so should get
something
running in a week or two. At present I am inclined to use a plain on-off
switch on all the batteries, and to switch the 2 main batteries and the
November 14, 2018 - December 29, 2018
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-or