AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-pv
November 04, 2020 - December 24, 2020
Even so, the admonition seems a bit of overkill.
The operator of an aircraft stored for prolonged
periods without active battery maintenance is
well advised if not obligated to cap check the
battery (amongst other things) before putting
the a/c back in service.
According to this article:
https://tinyurl.com/ycukwcmb
"Nickel-cadmium stores well. The US Air Force was able to deploy
NiCd batteries
that had been in storage for 5 years with good recovered capacities after
priming. It is believed that priming becomes necessary if the
voltage drops below 1V/cell."
"Priming" is a specialized charging protocol for
NiCads that often brings a long-stored NiCad
back to serviceable condition. This would be
the consistent with the bulletin's reference to
a competent battery maintenance shop.
In any case, a veteran user of Ni-Cads already
understands this. This bulletin seems kinda
redundant . . . sorta like reminding you to
tie your shoes.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine compartment fuse? |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
Joe and Ron thanks for your thoughts
It is the 912i with the large rotax supplied fuse box. (The rotax
supplied fuse box with voltage regulators that rotax says must be
located in the engine compartment due to fire risk but must be kept
below 80 Celsius). From an inspectors point of view an an
automotive/marine fuse block is probably not quite as acceptable as a
rotax supplied fuse box but it may be an option. A 10awg wire feed from
the battery contactor hardly seems like a classic "fat wire" that
doesn't need current protection but I could upsize it and that may be
the easiest solution. It would mean a total of three 30 amp fused wires
passing back through the firewall to the rotax voltage regulator/fuse
box in the engine compartment.
In the past I've used a maxi fuse holder on the cold side of the FW. I
did not know about the midi fuses. Most fuse holders seem to be good
for only about 85*C. but that also seems true for the rotax supplied box.
Ken
On 02/11/2020 4:09 PM, rparigoris wrote:
>
> Hi Ken FWIW I just installed a 30 amp MIDI fuse on my Rotax 914. I punched out
the hole of the MIDI to 1/4"and mounted one side to my shunt and the other side
to a 1/4-28 Brass stud so a holder was not needed. McMaster and B&C sells
MIDI holders. Note that MIDI and Maxi fuses are not as fast acting as ATC and
MINI. Maxi fuese are large ATC like fuses. McMaster sells the inline fast on style
holder as well as a more robust clamp style holder. I was on the fence between
MIDI and Maxi. Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499206#499206
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine compartment fuse? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Attached is a schematic using only two fuses.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499261#499261
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_x3_896.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ROTAX LANE LIGHTS PROBLEM SOLVED |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The Rotax 912iS lane LED lights did not work in my friend's Kitfox.
There was a faint flicker when the lane switches were first turned on.
The lights worked fine when a 9 volt battery was connected to the pins in the HIC
connector for the lights.
So the problem must be in the Rotax harness or CPU or fuse box, right?
NO
After days of troubleshooting, we decided to remove the LED parallel resistor to
see if that made a difference.
Wow, that did it. The LED lane lights now worked.
It turns out that the Kitfox supplied resistors were 1R5 (1.5 ohms), not the recommended
1K5 (1500 ohms).
The purpose of those parallel resistors is to prevent the LEDs from glowing dimly
when the Rotax solid state switch is off.
A 9 volt battery has enough current capacity to power both a low value resistor
and a LED.
But the Rotax CPU must have internal resistance that limits the current.
Lesson learned: Check load resistance.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499262#499262
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ROTAX LANE LIGHTS PROBLEM SOLVED |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
Another lane light gotcha is finding out that an unadvertised feature of
the indicator lamps purchased from Aircraft Spruce was that they were
internally grounded.
Ken
On 05/11/2020 9:54 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> The Rotax 912iS lane LED lights did not work in my friend's Kitfox.
> There was a faint flicker when the lane switches were first turned on.
> The lights worked fine when a 9 volt battery was connected to the pins in the
HIC connector for the lights.
> So the problem must be in the Rotax harness or CPU or fuse box, right?
> NO
> After days of troubleshooting, we decided to remove the LED parallel resistor
to see if that made a difference.
> Wow, that did it. The LED lane lights now worked.
> It turns out that the Kitfox supplied resistors were 1R5 (1.5 ohms), not the
recommended 1K5 (1500 ohms).
> The purpose of those parallel resistors is to prevent the LEDs from glowing dimly
when the Rotax solid state switch is off.
> A 9 volt battery has enough current capacity to power both a low value resistor
and a LED.
> But the Rotax CPU must have internal resistance that limits the current.
> Lesson learned: Check load resistance.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499262#499262
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine compartment fuse? |
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
thanks Joe
It's tough for me but as a new rotax guy I'm trying to just assimilate
into the rotax culture and follow their advice rather than fight it and
do what seems logical since we don't really know what failures or
situations they are trying to cater to. One possible drawback for
eliminating one of those fuses is that if the start power fuse pops
after the engine has cranked just enough to keep going (rare but not
unknown) it would disable backup power for the flight so I thought I'd
keep all three 30 amp fuses.
I do plane to use a start power relay similar to the rotax blessed
rs-flight system which at least means the start power won't have to go
to a switch on the instrument panel.
I will add over voltage protection since despite verbal claims otherwise
the current install manual actually says "5. Attention: In failure
conditions the output voltage can exceed the specified limits"
thanks and keep the ideas coming
Ken
On 05/11/2020 9:14 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Attached is a schematic using only two fuses.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499261#499261
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_x3_896.png
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine compartment fuse? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Having a momentary start enable switch could be advantageous by making it
more difficult for unauthorized people (kids) to start the engine.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499266#499266
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
| From: | "Marvin McGraw" <Marvinmcgraw1(at)juno.com> |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> At 06:44 AM 2/9/2020, you wrote:
>
> > Here is my idea for Z-14 with ENG BUS. The AUX side is primarily for powering
the ENG BUS. The Main side is for all other consumers with an emergency aux
feed to the ENG BUS from the Main Batt.
>
> It doesn't really matter much since all busses
> are very robust. Put all engine loads on one
> bus . . . either main or aux . . . you'll be
> fine. No more busses needed
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
If I follow this advice, is there a way to turn off both battery contactors in
flight for a smoke in the cockpit scenario? It seems the engine would need additional
electical protection.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499267#499267
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Burnett <ronburnett(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Broken power terminal |
I over torqued a #6 power terminal breaking most of it off on a dual unit fuel
pump. I did get the ring, lock washer and nut on anyway, but...
Are there any fixes?
Thanks,
Ron Burnett
May you have the Lord's blessings today!
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Broken power terminal |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 11/5/2020 7:23 PM, Ron Burnett wrote:
>
> I over torqued a #6 power terminal breaking most of it off on a dual unit fuel
pump. I did get the ring, lock washer and nut on anyway, but...
>
> Are there any fixes?
>
> Thanks,
> Ron Burnett
Bummer; I know that hurts.
A bit more detail, like brand/model & maybe a pic or two, might help us
help you.
Charlie
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dissimiliar metals |
Garmin provides stainless hardware for grounding studs for some of its electronics.
Would stainless be a problem for attaching the grounding forest (brass/copper)
to an aluminum airframe?
Bernie Willis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | gebruik je ongetwijfeld |
| From: | "Banning" <s1881110323(at)gmail.com> |
Tu e la tua futura moglie vi divertite a teatro? Vai spesso? Probabilmente non
funzionerebbe a Broadway, ma attirer applausi altrove.
Concorda con il regista del tuo teatro locale di proporre dopo il sipario. Le probabilit
sono eccellenti che lui o lei sar d'accordo poich questa una grande
pubblicit. Mentre gli attori fanno il loro ultimo inchino, unisciti a loro sul
palco e dai la tua migliore interpretazione durante la proposta. Falla salire
sul palco.
Punti bonus per convincere il cast a fare l'ultimo inchino nella tua direzione
invece che verso il pubblico.
Come il teatro, anche questa un'occasione da proporre in scena. Mentre puoi Festliche Kleider (https://www.dreamydress.ch/festliche-kleider.html) portarla in un bar karaoke e sorprenderla cantando una canzone d'amore, poi chiedendole di salire sul palco prima di proporre di fronte al pubblico, c' un modo pi subdolo per farlo.
Chiedi a una sua amica di portare la tua futura sposa fuori per una serata karaoke tra ragazze. Assicurati che ci si possa fidare dell'amico per non rivelare il tuo segreto. Mentre le donne (comprese le tue) si stanno godendo lo spettacolo, tu la sciocchi presentandoti sul palco con un'interpretazione di "Will You Marry Me". Falla salire Robes de Demoiselle D'honneur (https://www.dreamydress.fr/robes-de-demoiselle-d-honneur.html) sul palco e chiedile di sposarti. Dopo che ha accettato, cantale una serenata con "Quando ho sessantaquattro" dei Beatles.
Ora che hai proposto e la signora ha accettato, puoi rilassarti. Destra? In realt
no. Il divertimento solo all'inizio. Il prossimo passo decidere la sede e
trovare un catering adatto al tuo budget e ai tuoi gusti. Meglio iniziare a pianificare
ora o assumere un wedding planner per garantire che la tua donna speciale
abbia il matrimonio dei suoi sogni.
Le foto del tuo matrimonio dureranno una vita e oltre. Creeranno ricordi per te
e la tua famiglia, compresi i tuoi figli. A meno che tu non abbia un amico o
un familiare che sia un genio della fotografia, potresti non voler lesinare sul
tuo fotografo professionista. Tuttavia, puoi risparmiare denaro mettendo insieme
i tuoi album di matrimonio.
La musica grad dresses (https://www.dreamydress.co.uk/grad-dresses.html) del matrimonio sar una parte fondamentale del tuo ricevimento. Le persone vogliono essere intrattenute. Una band dal vivo costosa. Assumi invece un DJ per matrimoni. La musica non sar dal vivo, ma un DJ di talento pu mantenere la folla eccitata e ballare.
Non trascurare l'importanza del ruolo di un buon officiante di matrimoni. Lui o
lei dar il tono per l'intera cerimonia di matrimonio. Gli ufficiali possono essere
religiosi, secolari o aconfessionali. Assicurati che il tuo addetto al matrimonio
sia affidabile chiedendo referenze. Il fatto che chiunque pu diventare
un officiante di matrimoni autorizzato tramite Internet.
Alcuni officianti hanno pi esperienza con i voti nuziali standard che con le cerimonie fai-da-te. Se vuoi scrivere i tuoi voti, assicurati che il tuo officiante abbia l'esperienza per incorporare e Short Evening Dresses (https://www.queenabelle.co.uk/short-evening-dresses) personalizzare le tue parole in una bellissima cerimonia.
Rendi speciale il giorno del tuo matrimonio conoscendo le cose che puoi eliminare
e quali elementi sono necessari per creare il tuo matrimonio da sogno.
Durante questo periodo di coronavirus e anche in seguito, stai senza dubbio usando
pi spesso disinfettanti per le mani, possibilmente pi volte durante l'intera
giornata. Molte donne hanno disinfettanti vicino al lavandino e nella borsa
come protezione extra contro i germi. Mentre proteggi le tue mani, tuttavia,
potresti danneggiare la tua fede nuziale.
Un contatto troppo frequente con detergenti antibatterici e disinfettanti per le mani pu causare la perdita di lucentezza di metalli preziosi e pietre preziose. Anche se l'uso di disinfettanti per le mani sulle mani una saggia precauzione, meglio rimuovere i gioielli Quinceanera Dresses (https://www.dylanqueen.ca/quinceanera-dresses/) mentre si utilizzano tali prodotti e attendere che le mani si asciughino prima di rimettere l'anello. Questo evita di far cadere il disinfettante per le mani direttamente sull'anello.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499272#499272
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
>
>
>If I follow this advice, is there a way to turn off both battery
>contactors in flight for a smoke in the cockpit scenario? It seems
>the engine would need additional electical protection.
>
Yeah . . . that's why Z101 came into being. Fewer components,
robust, dual fed busses. For smoke in cockpit, close
battery feed to engine bus . . . shut down all other
switches.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
At 10:23 PM 11/5/2020, you wrote:
>
>Garmin provides stainless hardware for grounding studs for some of
>its electronics. Would stainless be a problem for attaching the
>grounding forest (brass/copper) to an aluminum airframe?
>
>Bernie Willis
Generally no problem.
Dissimilar metals have three fundamental characteristics
that manifest in not-so-obvious thermoelectric qualities.
See: https://tinyurl.com/pmare2c
For the purposes of this discussion, we're interested
in the potential for extra ordinary corrosion in the
interface of the two materials . . . corrosion that
degrades electrical conduction and perhaps promotes
structural destruction.
This risk moves forward only if there is water (or
other ionic fluid) present. The cited Seebeck effect
manifests as a tiny battery created by molecular
differences in two metals. Not a problem in a dry
condition but when conductive moisture is present,
electrons will flow through the liquid between
the two battery poles. Those electrons MUST come
from the more negative of the two poles. I.e.
that battery electrode 'rusts' due to the flow
of current external to the electrodes.
This gives rise to the sacred concept of gas-tight
connections. If the void between the potentially
antagonistic metals is reduce to zero, then
moisture and oxygen necessary to promote
atmospheric rust -AND- electrolytic rust cannot
enter and the joint is secure. The outside
surfaces might show signs of corrosion but
the parts that matter are secure in their
assembly.
Examples of these phenomenon are
illustrated by the accelerated destruction
of metals in a marine environment. I have
visited this example of extreme corrosion
on Flamenco Beach, Culebra Island, PR
https://tinyurl.com/y33t3a62
Massive volumes of metal have be completely
dissolved away into the surf.
The short answer is: Stainless hardware does
not offer risk if (1) it's not routinely
wet and (2) the conducting surface interfaces
are adequately compressed to achieve gas-tight
joints.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ROTAX LANE LIGHTS PROBLEM SOLVED |
| From: | "Eric Page" <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com> |
user9253 wrote:
> The Rotax 912iS lane LED lights did not work in my friend's Kitfox. [SNIP]
Joe, I hope you don't mind; I re-posted your discovery to the TeamKitfox forum.
I wanted to make other Kitfox builders aware, in case the Kitfox factory sent
incorrect resistors with more than one 912is installation kit. Thanks for passing
along the information.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499275#499275
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <david(at)carter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Bob - I'm implementing Z101 now as a retrofit in my RV-7A. Your response
reminded me of a question I had. Is there a reason not to operate with the
engine bus alt feed always on? And the same question for the aux alternator
field? I'm using the B&C standby regulator rather than the Ford regulator
since I had one laying around if that makes any difference.
Thanks!
David
---
David Carter
david(at)carter.net
On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 9:29 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>
> If I follow this advice, is there a way to turn off both battery
> contactors in flight for a smoke in the cockpit scenario? It seems the
> engine would need additional electical protection.
>
>
> Yeah . . . that's why Z101 came into being. Fewer components,
> robust, dual fed busses. For smoke in cockpit, close
> battery feed to engine bus . . . shut down all other
> switches.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bernie <arcticarrow(at)GMail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
Bob
Thank you! I=99ll leave the stainless hardware in place. But in the fu
ture is the stainless preferred over cadmium plated steel or brass?
Bernie
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 6, 2020, at 6:05 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelec
tric.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB At 10:23 PM 11/5/2020, you wrote:
.com>
>>
>> Garmin provides stainless hardware for grounding studs for some of its el
ectronics. Would stainless be a problem for attaching the grounding forest (
brass/copper) to an aluminum airframe?
>>
>> Bernie Willis
>
> Generally no problem.
>
> Dissimilar metals have three fundamental characteristics
> that manifest in not-so-obvious thermoelectric qualities.
> See: https://tinyurl.com/pmare2c
>
> For the purposes of this discussion, we're interested
> in the potential for extra ordinary corrosion in the
> interface of the two materials . . . corrosion that
> degrades electrical conduction and perhaps promotes
> structural destruction.
>
> This risk moves forward only if there is water (or
> other ionic fluid) present. The cited Seebeck effect
> manifests as a tiny battery created by molecular
> differences in two metals. Not a problem in a dry
> condition but when conductive moisture is present,
> electrons will flow through the liquid between
> the two battery poles. Those electrons MUST come
> from the more negative of the two poles. I.e.
> that battery electrode 'rusts' due to the flow
> of current external to the electrodes.
>
> This gives rise to the sacred concept of gas-tight
> connections. If the void between the potentially
> antagonistic metals is reduce to zero, then
> moisture and oxygen necessary to promote
> atmospheric rust -AND- electrolytic rust cannot
> enter and the joint is secure. The outside
> surfaces might show signs of corrosion but
> the parts that matter are secure in their
> assembly.
>
> Examples of these phenomenon are
> illustrated by the accelerated destruction
> of metals in a marine environment. I have
> visited this example of extreme corrosion
> on Flamenco Beach, Culebra Island, PR
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y33t3a62
>
> Massive volumes of metal have be completely
> dissolved away into the surf.
>
> The short answer is: Stainless hardware does
> not offer risk if (1) it's not routinely
> wet and (2) the conducting surface interfaces
> are adequately compressed to achieve gas-tight
> joints.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | The next generation . . . |
Saw one of these on Banggood a few weeks ago
and had to get one to play with.
https://tinyurl.com/y3rlo8hk
At first blush, the thing seems quite capable
for making good solder joints of all sizes.
The cord is a bit 'stiff' which slightly hampers
control for tiny ECB parts. I may splice a
flexible cloth over rubber cord on it to enhance
that feature.
The Metcals are still the gold standard of soldering
irons but getting hard to find used/surplus . . . too
expensive new. My own Metcals are probably
40+ years old. When and if I need to replace one,
this new kid on the block may well fill the bill
for a whole lot less money!
In any case, these are exceedingly reasonable
for the performance offered . . . a cheap
experiment if you're interested in a
versatile soldering tool
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The next generation . . . |
For those not familiar with Banggood:
https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Temperature-Controlled-Thermostatic-Elect
ronic/dp/B089SKWMPT/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=soldering+iron&sr
=8-12
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
Saw one of these on Banggood a few weeks ago
and had to get one to play with.
https://tinyurl.com/y3rlo8hk
At first blush, the thing seems quite capable
for making good solder joints of all sizes.
The cord is a bit 'stiff' which slightly hampers
control for tiny ECB parts. I may splice a
flexible cloth over rubber cord on it to enhance
that feature.
The Metcals are still the gold standard of soldering
irons but getting hard to find used/surplus . . . too
expensive new. My own Metcals are probably
40+ years old. When and if I need to replace one,
this new kid on the block may well fill the bill
for a whole lot less money!
In any case, these are exceedingly reasonable
for the performance offered . . . a cheap
experiment if you're interested in a
versatile soldering tool
=C2- Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ROTAX LANE LIGHTS PROBLEM SOLVED |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Eric. My friend purchased the engine 5 years ago. Hopefully Kitfox found
and corrected the error by now.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499280#499280
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Burnett <ronburnett(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Broken power terminal |
Thanks. Sent in for repair.
Ron Burnett
May you have the Lord's blessings today!
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 5, 2020, at 8:01 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
>> On 11/5/2020 7:23 PM, Ron Burnett wrote:
>>
>> I over torqued a #6 power terminal breaking most of it off on a dual unit fuel
pump. I did get the ring, lock washer and nut on anyway, but...
>>
>> Are there any fixes?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ron Burnett
> Bummer; I know that hurts.
>
> A bit more detail, like brand/model & maybe a pic or two, might help us help
you.
>
> Charlie
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | gps antenna under glassfibre? |
In my Europa build, until now Ive been planning to provide my Trig TT21 transponder
with a GPS position signal from my Garrecht TRX-2000 traffic monitor which
has a built-in GPS receiver.
However, with the CAA offering rebates on conspicuity equipment purchases, I am
considering a Trig TN72 with a TA50 antenna. This would allow the TT21 to show
a SIL of 1 (rather than 0 with the TRX-2000) and thus be more visible to other
traffic.
However, with a lot of my installation already done (or at least frozen) I am not sure where I can put the TA50 antenna. On top of the instrument module I have 3 GPS antennas already (for Garmin GPSmap 295, TRX-2000 & Dynon D2 - see http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/im_gps_antennae.php). I have separated those antennae by the 6 inches that I found as a recommendation on a Garmin marine website.
I am wondering if it would be OK to put the TA50 inside the roof where I have plenty
of space, and whether that would reduce the GPS signal too much. The Europa
fuselage is made from inner and outer layers (apparently mostly double) of
pre-preg with a thin layer of brown foam between.
Any advice appreciated, or suggestions for a better place to ask this question.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Either the instrument panel or the roof should work OK.
I would put the new antenna on the instrument panel panel to make installation
easier.
6 inches apart is perfect, but 4 inches apart is good enough.
Jim Weir recommends RG-174 cable.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499288#499288
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 11/7/2020 7:48 AM, Rowland Carson wrote:
>
> In my Europa build, until now Ive been planning to provide my Trig TT21 transponder
with a GPS position signal from my Garrecht TRX-2000 traffic monitor which
has a built-in GPS receiver.
>
> However, with the CAA offering rebates on conspicuity equipment purchases, I
am considering a Trig TN72 with a TA50 antenna. This would allow the TT21 to show
a SIL of 1 (rather than 0 with the TRX-2000) and thus be more visible to other
traffic.
>
> However, with a lot of my installation already done (or at least frozen) I am not sure where I can put the TA50 antenna. On top of the instrument module I have 3 GPS antennas already (for Garmin GPSmap 295, TRX-2000 & Dynon D2 - see http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/im_gps_antennae.php). I have separated those antennae by the 6 inches that I found as a recommendation on a Garmin marine website.
>
> I am wondering if it would be OK to put the TA50 inside the roof where I have
plenty of space, and whether that would reduce the GPS signal too much. The Europa
fuselage is made from inner and outer layers (apparently mostly double)
of pre-preg with a thin layer of brown foam between.
>
> Any advice appreciated, or suggestions for a better place to ask this question.
>
> in friendship
>
> Rowland
As a data point, many RV-x builders mount a small metal shelf on the hot
side of the firewall, just under the 'glass cowl. As long as there isn't
a lot of carbon in the structure, or a lot of metal in the paint, it
should work fine inside the structure. Can you push the fuselage
outdoors and do a simple signal strength test, with the antenna puck
outside, then inside the fuselage?
Charlie
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
On 2020-11-07, at 16:12, Charlie England wrote:
> Can you push the fuselage outdoors and do a simple signal strength test, with
the antenna puck outside, then inside the fuselage?
Charlie - thanks for pointing out the really obvious thought that I had totally
missed! As I said, Im still considering purchase, so I dont have the actual hardware,
but I can easily do a comparison using the GPS diagnostic app(s) on my
phone.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | S Remerez <sremerez(at)mailfence.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
Bob,
Do you think that coating these dissimilar metal connections with dielectri
c grease will reduce corrosion down to a bare minimum?=C2- I've used this
grease on connections, but they haven't had the long term torch test yet.
I also know that wire nuts filled with dielectric grease from the factory a
re used to make connections underground.=C2- In general, I believe any me
tal can be corrosion free if coated with dielectric grease, since it stops
penetration of humidity and water if applied correctly.
What do you think of dielectric grease for this application?
Simon
November 6, 2020 3:52:16 PM CET "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aer
oelectric.com> wrote:At 10:23 PM 11/5/2020, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List messageposted by: Bernie Willis
Garmin provides stainless hardware for grounding studs for some of itselect
ronics.=C2- Would stainless be a problem for attaching thegrounding fores
t (brass/copper) to an aluminum airframe?
Bernie Willis
=C2- Generally no problem.
=C2- Dissimilar metals have three fundamental characteristics
=C2- that manifest in not-so-obvious thermoelectric qualities.
=C2- See:https://tinyurl.com/pmare2c
=C2- For the purposes of this discussion, we're interested
=C2- in the potential for extra ordinary corrosion in the
=C2- interface of the two materials . . . corrosion that
=C2- degrades electrical conduction and perhaps promotes
=C2- structural destruction.
=C2- This risk moves forward only if there is water (or
=C2- other ionic fluid) present. The cited Seebeck effect
=C2- manifests as a tiny battery created by molecular
=C2- differences in two metals. Not a problem in a dry
=C2- condition but when conductive moisture is present,
=C2- electrons will flow through the liquid between
=C2- the two battery poles. Those electrons MUST come
=C2- from the more negative of the two poles. I.e.
=C2- that battery electrode 'rusts' due to the flow
=C2- of current external to the electrodes.
=C2- This gives rise to the sacred concept of gas-tight
=C2- connections. If the void between the potentially
=C2- antagonistic metals is reduce to zero, then
=C2- moisture and oxygen necessary to promote
=C2- atmospheric rust -AND- electrolytic rust cannot
=C2- enter and the joint is secure. The outside
=C2- surfaces might show signs of corrosion but
=C2- the parts that matter are secure in their
=C2- assembly.
=C2- Examples of these phenomenon are
=C2- illustrated by the accelerated destruction
=C2- of metals in a marine environment. I have
=C2- visited this example of extreme corrosion
=C2- on Flamenco Beach, Culebra Island, PR
https://tinyurl.com/y33t3a62
=C2- Massive volumes of metal have be completely
=C2- dissolved away into the surf.
=C2- The short answer is: Stainless hardware does
=C2- not offer risk if (1) it's not routinely
=C2- wet and (2) the conducting surface interfaces
=C2- are adequately compressed to achieve gas-tight
=C2- joints.
=C2- Bob . . .
--Sent from Mailfence.com - Secure encrypted email
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors will not
hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal contact.
The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air from getting
in.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting(at)frontier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
Now you have. https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grease/
dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=160
4796349&sr=8-3
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 7, 2020, at 7:17 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
l.com>
>
> I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors will no
t
> hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
> A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal conta
ct.
> The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air from
getting in.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
There must be a use for that stuff, but I wouldn't want to risk it in an
a/c. Dielectric grease will keep oxygen/water out of connectors without
bridging between the terminals.
How would you ensure that you avoid bridging, with conductive grease
inside the shell?
Charlie
On 11/7/2020 6:47 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
> Now you have.
> https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grease/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=1604796349&sr=8-3
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 7, 2020, at 7:17 PM, user9253 wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors
>> will not
>> hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
>> A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal
>> contact.
>> The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air
>> from getting in.
>>
>> --------
>> Joe Gores
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
>> =================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
--
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting(at)frontier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
I use dielectric grease in my auto and motorcycle connectors. It works grea
t for corrosion protection and no danger of shorting one circuit to another.
I only posted the link because someone said they had never seen a conductive
grease. There are greases that conduct electricity and that conduct heat. A
nd probably some that do both.
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 7, 2020, at 8:46 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> There must be a use for that stuff, but I wouldn't want to risk it in an a
/c. Dielectric grease will keep oxygen/water out of connectors without bridg
ing between the terminals.
>
> How would you ensure that you avoid bridging, with conductive grease insid
e the shell?
>
> Charlie
>
>> On 11/7/2020 6:47 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>> Now you have. https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grea
se/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=
1604796349&sr=8-3
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Nov 7, 2020, at 7:17 PM, user9253 wrote:
>>>
ail.com>
>>>
>>> I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors will n
ot
>>> hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
>>> A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal con
tact.
>>> The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air fr
om getting in.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Joe Gores
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
>>> ========================
==========================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | S Remerez <sremerez(at)mailfence.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
You wouldn't have to ensure. Diaelectric grease is an insulator.=C2- At R
F frequencies, it has an impedance of 75 degrees.=C2- That's why they use
it in RF connectors - to extend the 75 Ohms through like the cable's diele
ctric.=C2- Here is a paragraph out of Wiki for "diaelectric grease."
As a sealant around electrical contacts[edit]
Silicone greases are electrically=C2-insulating=C2-and are often applie
d to=C2-electrical connectors, particularly those containing rubber gaske
ts, as a means of sealing and protecting the connector. In this context the
y are often referred to as=C2-dielectric=C2-grease.[8][9]
A common use of this type is in the high-voltage connection associated with
gasoline-engine spark plugs, where grease is applied to the rubber boot of
the plug wire to help it slide onto the ceramic insulator of the plug, to
seal the rubber boot, and to prevent the rubber's adhesion to the ceramic.
Such greases are formulated to withstand the high temperature generally ass
ociated with the areas in which spark plugs are located, and can be applied
to contacts as well (because the contact pressure is sufficient to penetra
te the grease film). Doing so on such high-pressure contact surfaces betwee
n different metals has the further advantage of sealing the contact area ag
ainst electrolytes that might cause rapid deterioration of the metals by=C2
-galvanic corrosion.[10]
Silicone grease can decompose to form an insulating layer at or next to swi
tch contacts that experience=C2-arcing, and contamination can cause the c
ontacts to prematurely fail.
November 8, 2020 2:32:23 AM CET Charlie England wrot
e:
There must be a use for that stuff, but I wouldn't want to risk it in
an a/c. Dielectric grease will keep oxygen/water out of connectors wit
hout bridging between the terminals.
How would you ensure that you avoid bridging, with conductive gr
ease inside the shell?
Charlie
On 11/7/2020 6:47 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
Now you have. =C2-https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Car
bon-Conductive-Grease/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=cond
uctive+grease&qid=1604796349&sr=8-3
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 7, 2020, at 7:17 PM, user9253 w
rote:
=EF=BB--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253"
I have never seen conductive grease. =C2-Putting grease on
connectors will not
hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a
little messy.
A good connection will force the grease out, allowing
metal to metal contact.
The grease that is forced out will resist water and high
humidity air from getting in.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
=====================
===
Virus-free. www.avast.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
>>Rowland
>As a data point, many RV-x builders mount a small metal shelf on the
>hot side of the firewall, just under the 'glass cowl. As long as
>there isn't a lot of carbon in the structure, or a lot of metal in
>the paint, it should work fine inside the structure. Can you push
>the fuselage outdoors and do a simple signal strength test, with the
>antenna puck outside, then inside the fuselage?
>
>Charlie
Bingo . . . when in doubt . . . measure!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
At 05:02 PM 11/7/2020, you wrote:
Bob,
Do you think that coating these dissimilar metal connections with
dielectric grease will reduce corrosion down to a bare minimum? I've
used this grease on connections, but they haven't had the long term
torch test yet. I also know that wire nuts filled with dielectric
grease from the factory are used to make connections underground. In
general, I believe any metal can be corrosion free if coated with
dielectric grease, since it stops penetration of humidity and water
if applied correctly.
What do you think of dielectric grease for this application?
Simon
Never seen it done in aircraft. By definition.
a properly assembled, gas-tight joint would have
no voids at-risk for contamination. Further,
any grease (a viscous liquid) in the joint
would be squeezed out as the joint was made
up.
Most of the dielectric greases I've encountered
are a silicon based chemistry . . . the stuff
'migrates'. Put a little dab onto a flat surface
and set it aside for a couple months . . . it will
become much larger in diameter with time.
I suspect quality is fundamental to the 'water
displacement' claim for such products. Certainly
useful if there are gaps that water can enter . . .
like ignition components on your car that
should have been replaced some time ago. I
used to wash down my car engines with high
pressure, soap water with some frequency.
If it was reluctant to start up and drive
out of the car wash, STUFF GOT REPLACED.
Hawker/Beech management expressed an interest
in several 'joint enhancement' nostrums. I was
tasked with researching this product.
https://tinyurl.com/y6m9xsov
One of several avenues of inquiry I made
was to application engineers at TycoAmp,
Molex and several others. Paraphrasing
their responses, they generally ran along this
line:
"Say what?!?! . . . you make us jump through
the myriad of hoops proposed by DO-160, Mil-
Std-460/461, MIL-STD-810, ad nauseam and you
have the temerity to ask if painting our
products with this 'stuff' would enhance their
performance?
The general consensus was: "If you have a NEW
requirement, then articulate it in your next
purchase order and we'll do our best to meet
that requirement. But be forewarned, any expenses
incurred by us to meet this NEW requirement will
be passed along in the request for quotation."
So this begs the questions:
(a) Are there any perceived inadequacies in
the demonstrated service life of a component?
(b) Are those inadequacies determined to be . . .
(1) the byproduct of poor design or
manufacturing?
(2) inattention to installation details?
(c) Why was the potential for those inadequacies
not addressed in the initial procurement
specification for the product?
The fact that things like Stabilant 22 exist
suggests one of two conditions:
(a) The product's design goals were deficient.
(b) The product has been in service longer
than the expected design goals.
The short answer is:
Be wary of any suggestion that some goop,
goo or magic elixir will enhance the performance
of ANY product. I can confidently assert that
99% of those claims are not founded in demonstrable
practice/physics.
The remaining 1% are represented by products/
companies that are out of business.
After months of not terribly intense
investigation the short answer was:
The techniques defined by our process
specifications have a demonstrated track
record. Further, there are no
DEFICIENCIES for established design
goals addressed by legacy process/procurement
specifications.
As a minor aside: Any suggestion that installation
techs be asked to carry a bottle of Stabilant
22 in their toolbox was greeted with a stare
that could be lethal.
So . . . do it right the first time and you
won't have to do it over in the future. This
isn't rocket science. It's a shop-practice
refined and defined by 100 years of experience
in the field.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
At 06:47 PM 11/7/2020, you wrote:
>Now you
>have.
>https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grease/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=1604796349&sr=8-3
Th8i stuff is scary . . . if it's a 'mobile' as
silicone based products cite in earlier post . . .
well . . . before using any such thing on your
project's electrical parts you need to determine:
(a) was my initial section of part/process in error?
(b) is there a demonstrable deficiency in the
performance of installed parts?
The study of history is not terribly revered
amongst members of the general public. I
suggest it is of PRIME importance in the
practice of our craft.
If there is a perceived value for applying some
new or novel product to your project, you would
do well to:
(1) understand the physics behind any shortcoming
in proposed material/processes followed up with:
(2) "Gee, did I neglect a the wisdom offered by
folks who have already been-there-done-that?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
Hey Joe...what about Copper Slip?
On Sun, 08 Nov 2020, 02:17 user9253, wrote:
>
> I have never seen conductive grease. Putting grease on connectors will
> not
> hurt much except for adding a gram of weight and being a little messy.
> A good connection will force the grease out, allowing metal to metal
> contact.
> The grease that is forced out will resist water and high humidity air from
> getting in.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499293#499293
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew S. Whiting" <m.whiting(at)frontier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
I never suggested using it in an aircraft. Someone said they had never seen
a conductive grease as though they thought such an animal did not exist. I
was providing existence proof.
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 7, 2020, at 11:34 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB At 06:47 PM 11/7/2020, you wrote:
>> Now you have. https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Carbon-Conductive-Grea
se/dp/B005T8ROWA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=conductive+grease&qid=
1604796349&sr=8-3
>
> Th8i stuff is scary . . . if it's a 'mobile' as
> silicone based products cite in earlier post . . .
> well . . . before using any such thing on your
> project's electrical parts you need to determine:
>
> (a) was my initial section of part/process in error?
>
> (b) is there a demonstrable deficiency in the
> performance of installed parts?
>
> The study of history is not terribly revered
> amongst members of the general public. I
> suggest it is of PRIME importance in the
> practice of our craft.
>
> If there is a perceived value for applying some
> new or novel product to your project, you would
> do well to:
>
> (1) understand the physics behind any shortcoming
> in proposed material/processes followed up with:
>
> (2) "Gee, did I neglect a the wisdom offered by
> folks who have already been-there-done-that?
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dissimiliar metals |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I think that any grease product advertised as conductive will not help conduct
electrical current found in our airplanes. It might help to conduct static
electricity. If anyone has some conductive grease, please measure its
resistance with an ohmmeter and let us know the results. I predict the
resistance will be infinite. Notice that these products do not claim to be
"electrically" conductive. They are thermally conductive. Yes, the products
might be recommended for electrical connections. But they do not conduct
electricity, at least not at the voltages and frequencies found in our airplanes.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499306#499306
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Potentiometer for dimming panel lights |
| From: | "hilltopkid" <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com> |
Long time since I've posted Bob and friends, but we've run into a situation someone
may have an answer to. My partner Doug bought 3 potentiometers from Mouser
to use for dimming panel, map and courtesy lights on our Sportsman. They are
Bourns " 5K 1% units, Part number 652-53RAA-R25-A13L, $8.76 each. What happened
was during his careful handling during installation in the panel with the
glare shield off and the EFIS removed for good access, two of the potentiometers
had attachment pins break off. Yes, the pins are small, but apparently are
unbelievably brittle. Did somehow we make them brittle during soldering? (Doug
has a really nice soldering pencil with digital readout for the set temperature.)
He has soldered many, many other electronic components in the Sportsman
and never had this problem.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a similar potentiometer that has more robust
pins? At $8.76 each Doug thought he was choosing a relatively high quality part.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Dee
--------
DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
Richmond, VA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499309#499309
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Potentiometer for dimming panel lights |
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Hi Dee,
why not solder it onto a small "stripe circuit board" so you can use
some shoe glue to fix it to the board and then solder the lead in one of
the holes?
That should get a bit more robust with this?
Cheers Werner
On 08.11.2020 15:45, hilltopkid wrote:
>
> Long time since I've posted Bob and friends, but we've run into a situation someone
may have an answer to. My partner Doug bought 3 potentiometers from Mouser
to use for dimming panel, map and courtesy lights on our Sportsman. They are
Bourns " 5K 1% units, Part number 652-53RAA-R25-A13L, $8.76 each. What happened
was during his careful handling during installation in the panel with the
glare shield off and the EFIS removed for good access, two of the potentiometers
had attachment pins break off. Yes, the pins are small, but apparently are
unbelievably brittle. Did somehow we make them brittle during soldering? (Doug
has a really nice soldering pencil with digital readout for the set temperature.)
He has soldered many, many other electronic components in the Sportsman
and never had this problem.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion for a similar potentiometer that has more robust
pins? At $8.76 each Doug thought he was choosing a relatively high quality part.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Dee
>
> --------
> DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
> Richmond, VA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Potentiometer for dimming panel lights |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I searched for a higher wattage. I have not used this part but it looks more robust.
Mouser #:774-026TB32R502B1B1 Mfr. #:026TB32R502B1B1
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499310#499310
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Potentiometer for dimming panel lights |
At 08:45 AM 11/8/2020, you wrote:
>
>
>Long time since I've posted Bob and friends . . .
It has been a long time my friend. OSH 2007?
>. . . but we've run into a situation someone may have an answer to. My
>partner Doug bought 3 potentiometers from Mouser to use for dimming
>panel, map and courtesy lights on our Sportsman. They are Bourns
>Part number 652-53RAA-R25-A13L, $8.76 each. What happened was
>during his careful handling during installation in the panel with
>the glare shield off and the EFIS removed for good access, two
>of the potentiometers had attachment pins break off.
Attached photos illustrate a technique I've
used for a few decades to bring airframe wires
of little buggers like that. My pre-wired
panel potentiometers for the dimmer kits we used
to sell were fabricated with this technique.
Stay healthy and fly comfortably my friend!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DeWitt Whittington <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Potentiometer for dimming panel lights |
Thanks, all. Later this week we=99ll try t install the pots again
by utilizing your suggestions. I=99m forwarding them to Doug
Hanson, one of my three partners in the Sportsman.
By the way, the big news is we now have a Hangar E8 at Hanover County
Airport, KPTB, about 10 miles north of Richmond, VA. We will be
trailering our Sportsman one within 2 weeks. KOFP is the airport we
wanted on which we wanted to be based. They rarely have openings so we
were resigned to start out at Chesterfield County Airport, KFCI.. We are
so close to finishing this everlasting project, partially due to an
engine switch from 3.6L Eggenfellner Subaru with Quinti 4-blade CS prop
to an O-360-A1A Lycoming with Hartzell CS prop, Boy was it a job to
extract all sorts of parts, cover holes in the firewall, remove the
header tank behind the seats, and add the two provided by Glasair, and
much, much more.
At the moment we are waiting for our registration for N18TA to come
through from FAA Oak City. I have a DAR lined up.
Dee
> On Nov 8, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
>
> At 08:45 AM 11/8/2020, you wrote:
>>
>> Long time since I've posted Bob and friends . . .
>
> It has been a long time my friend. OSH 2007?
>
>> . . . but we've run into a situation someone may have an answer to.
My
>> partner Doug bought 3 potentiometers from Mouser to use for dimming
>> panel, map and courtesy lights on our Sportsman. They are Bourns
>> Part number 652-53RAA-R25-A13L, $8.76 each. What happened was
>> during his careful handling during installation in the panel with
>> the glare shield off and the EFIS removed for good access, two
>> of the potentiometers had attachment pins break off.
>
> Attached photos illustrate a technique I've
> used for a few decades to bring airframe wires
> of little buggers like that. My pre-wired
> panel potentiometers for the dimmer kits we used
> to sell were fabricated with this technique.
>
> Stay healthy and fly comfortably my friend!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> <01_Strip-and-tin.jpg><02_Tack-wires-to-terminals.jpg><03_Encapsulate
joints.jpg><04_Plan-B for Square-Back Pots.jpg>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
what happens if the antennas are right next to each other? it absolutely will hurt
reception,or it might and it's not recommended? does anyone have experience
with 2 antennas next to each other?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499321#499321
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
At 07:26 AM 11/9/2020, you wrote:
>
>what happens if the antennas are right next to each other? it
>absolutely will hurt reception,or it might and it's not recommended?
>does anyone have experience with 2 antennas next to each other?
>
Receive-only antennas at near microwave frequencies
are not interactive. They work fine in close proximity.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Rowland I have a XS mono I already had most of my antennas installed and needed
to add ADS-B. The Garmin GA-35 antenna install manual wants a ground plane
(Bob can't quite figure out why). Anyway I have a Dynon magnetometer in my ceiling
and the GA-35 would need a clearance pocket if I did install in ceiling.
Anyway I made up a 8 pointed ground plane that will also be used as an antenna
mount and installing it just forward of the baggage bay bulkhead under the top
of fuse. I will not install it absolute level with fuse but aim the forward
up a little. Looks not too bad. https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3SI7_BpEe0ECaWIV?e=cVFSGb
I will bend radials fto follow the bottom of ceiling except for the
front ones. The front facing radial will be ~ 2 fingers below the ceiling.Ron
P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499323#499323
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
On 2020-11-09, at 14:11, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
> At 07:26 AM 11/9/2020, you wrote:
>> what happens if the antennas are right next to each other? it absolutely will
hurt reception,or it might and it's not recommended? does anyone have experience
with 2 antennas next to each other?
> Receive-only antennas at near microwave frequencies
> are not interactive. They work fine in close proximity.
Bob - that was my gut feeling too, but I poked around for quite some time and found
this spacing chart on the Garmin marine support area:
https://support.garmin.com/en-GB/marine/faq/2svIUDPSDa3M99GT2P1g09/
That was the basis for my 6/150mm spacing of the antennae already mounted on top
of my instrument module.
Since my earlier posting Ive been in touch with Trig support and they concur with
the Garmin advice. The Trig antenna is an active device and claims 26dB gain
over a passive antenna. I guess that some of the other ones are also active,
and that may be at least part of the reason for the spacing requirement.
Ive also slept on the question (often a good idea!) and realise that I can attach
the TA50 to a small bracket above the parcel shelf (in front of the P2 seat)
adjacent to the windscreen edge and that will be fine for both sky view and
spacing, although perhaps not the ultimate in elegance!
So, I have this day ordered a TN72/TA50 combo and look forward to getting my 50%
CAA rebate on the cast.
Thanks for all the thoughtful responses.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
Garmin, Dynon, Trig, and Stratus all state in their installation manuals
that GPS antennas must be 6" apart.
I have seen many, many GPS antennas sitting right next to each other
working just fine but if I was building a new plane, I would try very hard
to follow the installation manuals.
On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 1:18 PM Rowland Carson
wrote:
> rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
>
> On 2020-11-09, at 14:11, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> > At 07:26 AM 11/9/2020, you wrote:
>
> >> what happens if the antennas are right next to each other? it
> absolutely will hurt reception,or it might and it's not recommended? does
> anyone have experience with 2 antennas next to each other?
>
> > Receive-only antennas at near microwave frequencies
> > are not interactive. They work fine in close proximity.
>
> Bob - that was my gut feeling too, but I poked around for quite some time
> and found this spacing chart on the Garmin marine support area:
>
> https://support.garmin.com/en-GB/marine/faq/2svIUDPSDa3M99GT2P1g09/
>
> That was the basis for my 6=9D/150mm spacing of the antennae alread
y mounted
> on top of my instrument module.
>
> Since my earlier posting I=99ve been in touch with Trig support and
they
> concur with the Garmin advice. The Trig antenna is an active device and
> claims 26dB gain over a passive antenna. I guess that some of the other
> ones are also active, and that may be at least part of the reason for the
> spacing requirement.
>
> I=99ve also slept on the question (often a good idea!) and realise
that I
> can attach the TA50 to a small bracket above the parcel shelf (in front o
f
> the P2 seat) adjacent to the windscreen edge and that will be fine for bo
th
> sky view and spacing, although perhaps not the ultimate in elegance!
>
> So, I have this day ordered a TN72/TA50 combo and look forward to getting
> my 50% CAA rebate on the cast.
>
> Thanks for all the thoughtful responses.
>
> in friendship
>
> Rowland
>
> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
> | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
>Since my earlier posting I=99ve been in touch
>with Trig support and they concur with the
>Garmin advice. The Trig antenna is an active
>device and claims 26dB gain over a passive
>antenna. I guess that some of the other ones are
>also active, and that may be at least part of
>the reason for the spacing requirement.
That would be a very interesting hypothesis to explore.
To be sure, there are active devices (transistors)
in these devices but I cannot wrap my head around the
idea that they 'radiate' any energy that would cause
them to compete for real estate.
Sometimes I wish I still had a desk out at Beech . . .
I could often get right to the horse's mouth with
a phone call to the big guys in avionics . . . King
radio was always VERY helpful and forthcoming.
It was King engineer that first confirmed my own
studies suggesting that (1) radio killing spikes
do not exist in vehicular DC power systems and
(2) qualification testing of all avionics since
the 80's has to PROVE that an appliance stands
off EVERYTHING the airplane might throw at it.
I.e. avionics master switches were ill-conceived.
I might know a guy at Garmin that either knows
or can find out what physics drives that spacing
suggestion for non-radiating antennas.
You could do the experiment yourself. Put two
sets of mounting holes for the 2nd antenna . . .
one 'snuggled up' to the first and the second
one 'socially distanced'. See if you can observe
any differences.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
On 2020-11-09, at 23:29, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
> You could do the experiment yourself. Put two
> sets of mounting holes for the 2nd antenna . . .
> one 'snuggled up' to the first and the second
> one 'socially distanced'. See if you can observe
> any differences.
Bob - good suggestion, but I now have a working solution that honours the makers
recommendations, and life is too short!
As it used to say in in the maths books it is left as an exercise for the student
to . . ..
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
>Bob - good suggestion, but I now have a working solution that
>honours the makers=99 recommendations, and life is too short!
>
>As it used to say in in the maths books =9Cit is left as an
>exercise for the student to . . .=9D.
Understand and can't disagree . . . I don't
have DATA. We used to gather a lot of data
in the TC houses . . . but that practice
faded to a fraction of what it was by time
I left. What was that old adage . . . "if
you don't have time to do it right the first
time, where will you find the time to do it
over?"
I think I related a story about ELT's throwing
and error code to high VSWR on the vhf antenna.
Found some badly abused antennas jammed under
the vertical fin fairing toe cap . . . I proposed
some short, top loaded antennas that would have
thrived in that location. No time. They talked
the ELT manufacturer into widening the 'acceptable
SWR limits' and guess what . . . the red light
went out . . . (sigh)
I'm wondering if any empirical data was used
to generate that list of spacings?
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foghorn Inc <foghorn757(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Bumping the question. Looking for the same info.
Jeff Parker
757-817-4929
> On Nov 7, 2020, at 12:31, David Carter wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Bob - I'm implementing Z101 now as a retrofit in my RV-7A. Your response r
eminded me of a question I had. Is there a reason not to operate with the en
gine bus alt feed always on? And the same question for the aux alternator fi
eld? I'm using the B&C standby regulator rather than the Ford regulator sinc
e I had one laying around if that makes any difference.
>
> Thanks!
> David
>
> ---
> David Carter
> david(at)carter.net
>
>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 9:29 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aero
electric.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> If I follow this advice, is there a way to turn off both battery contact
ors in flight for a smoke in the cockpit scenario? It seems the engine woul
d need additional electical protection.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah . . . that's why Z101 came into being. Fewer components,
>> robust, dual fed busses. For smoke in cockpit, close
>> battery feed to engine bus . . . shut down all other
>> switches.
>>
>> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
At 02:51 PM 11/10/2020, you wrote:
>Bumping the question. Looking for the same info.
>
>Jeff Parker
>757-817-4929
>
>>On Nov 7, 2020, at 12:31, David Carter wrote:
>>
>>=EF=BB
>>Bob - I'm implementing Z101 now as a retrofit
>>in my RV-7A. Your response reminded me of a
>>question I had. Is there a reason not to
>>operate with the engine bus alt feed always on?
>>And the same question for the aux alternator
>>field? I'm using the B&C standby regulator
>>rather than the Ford regulator since I had one
>>laying around if that makes any difference.
Any time the main bus is up, all busses are up
and position of other switches has no effect
on operation of the airplane. Alternate
feed path integrity should be checked in pre-flight.
What advantage do you perceive for running full-up
on power distribution options? You still need a
plan-b protocol for responding to abnormal
conditions. Does it make your task easier
to figure out what to shut off as opposed to
what to turn on?
The elegant plan-b offers specific responses
to an abnormal condition . . . how you choose
to configure is your call.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 11/10/2020 5:07 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 02:51 PM 11/10/2020, you wrote:
>> Bumping the question. Looking for the same info.
>>
>> Jeff Parker
>> 757-817-4929
>>
>>> On Nov 7, 2020, at 12:31, David Carter wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob - I'm implementing Z101 now as a retrofit in my RV-7A. Your
>>> response reminded me of a question I had. Is there a reason not to
>>> operate with the engine bus alt feed always on? And the same
>>> question for the aux alternator field? I'm using the B&C standby
>>> regulator rather than the Ford regulator since I had one laying
>>> around if that makes any difference.
>
> Any time the main bus is up, all busses are up
> and position of other switches has no effect
> on operation of the airplane. Alternate
> feed path integrity should be checked in pre-flight.
>
> What advantage do you perceive for running full-up
> on power distribution options? You still need a
> plan-b protocol for responding to abnormal
> conditions. Does it make your task easier
> to figure out what to shut off as opposed to
> what to turn on?
>
> The elegant plan-b offers specific responses
> to an abnormal condition . . . how you choose
> to configure is your call.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
I'm not Jeff, but I plan on having the engine bus switch on whenever the
engine is running, with the alternate power path coming through a diode
from the main bus. My *logic* is that the dual active power paths
minimize any potential 'operational issues' (failures in power delivery
to the engine bus, for reasons ranging from device failure to
inadvertent switch movement) that could come up at times when
options/reaction time are limited, like shortly after takeoff or being
forced to remain at low altitude due to 'airliner pattern' approaches
flown by leading traffic. The core driver is to not based on calculated
odds, but on being prepared as well as possible for what *can* happen.
Another motivator is that 'switchology' (actually, procedures), while
unavoidably different from traditional a/c engine installations, will be
as close as possible to decades of training, where in certain
emergencies we're trained to shut down everything except the engine.
Again, not probability driven, but for what *can* happen.
Obviously, proper functionality will be checked before takeoff.
Charlie
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
My RV-6A has operated with an Apollo SL-60 GPS antenna under the
fiberglass cowl for nearly 15 years. No problems. About two years ago, I
added an echoUAT ADS-B unit with a uAvionix SkyFYX GPS Antenna under the
cowl. It is mounted within =C2=BC inch of the previous antenna. Also
works with no problems. Both antennas sit on a small bracket riveted to
the engine side of the firewall. The SkyFYX is more than an antenna, it
is also a complete WAAS GPS packaged in an antenna sized component. The
installation manual had no recommendations or limitations as to antenna
location or proximity to other antennas.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A, N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
>I'm not Jeff, but I plan on having the engine bus switch on whenever
>the engine is running, with the alternate power path coming through
>a diode from the main bus. My *logic* is that the dual active power
>paths minimize any potential 'operational issues' (failures in power
>delivery to the engine bus, for reasons ranging from device failure
>to inadvertent switch movement) that could come up at times when
>options/reaction time are limited, like shortly after takeoff or
>being forced to remain at low altitude due to 'airliner pattern'
>approaches flown by leading traffic. The core driver is to not based
>on calculated odds, but on being prepared as well as possible for
>what *can* happen.
>
>Another motivator is that 'switchology' (actually, procedures),
>while unavoidably different from traditional a/c engine
>installations, will be as close as possible to decades of training,
>where in certain emergencies we're trained to shut down everything
>except the engine. Again, not probability driven, but for what *can* happen.
>
>Obviously, proper functionality will be checked before takeoff.
>
>Charlie
Point well taken sir . . .
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gps antenna under glassfibre? |
At 08:12 AM 11/11/2020, you wrote:
>My RV-6A has operated with an Apollo SL-60 GPS
>antenna under the fiberglass cowl for nearly 15
>years. No problems. About two years ago, I added
>an echoUAT ADS-B unit with a uAvionix SkyFYX GPS
>Antenna under the cowl. It is mounted within =C2=BC
>inch of the previous antenna. Also works with no
>problems. Both antennas sit on a small bracket
>riveted to the engine side of the firewall. The
>SkyFYX is more than an antenna, it is also a
>complete WAAS GPS packaged in an antenna sized
>component. The installation manual had no
>recommendations or limitations as to antenna
>location or proximity to other antennas.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A, N11CB
>San Antonio
Good data . . . thanks!
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Jeff and Charlie,
Why don't you guys work up a preflight checklist for a
full-up Z101 and publish it here. After due opportunity
for critical review, I'll add it to the Z101 notes
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foghorn Inc <foghorn757(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Here is what I have for my RV8 project.
Fire away!
Jeff Parker
> On 11Nov, 2020, at 10:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
>
> Jeff and Charlie,
>
> Why don't you guys work up a preflight checklist for a
> full-up Z101 and publish it here. After due opportunity
> for critical review, I'll add it to the Z101 notes
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Looks pretty good to me. I wish I had one to offer, but I'm far enough
from flying that I have not yet created an actual checklist. I did give
operations a lot of thought while laying out the architecture, though,
and I suspect that I'll end up with something very similar to Jeff's.
Jeff, the one thing I noticed was:
"Aux ALT ON Check Bus amps"
Mine will almost certainly say 'check bus volts', because the low volts
warning will instantly show up, and seems an easy method of detecting
alternator operation, to me. Perhaps my decision to use a 'traditional'
SLA battery influences this, since an inactive alternator will show up
as a quite obvious voltage drop. I don't know if the lithium tech
batteries will have as obvious a voltage drop without the alternator(s)
on line.
FWIW,
Charlie
On 11/11/2020 4:40 PM, Foghorn Inc wrote:
> Here is what I have for my RV8 project.
>
> Fire away!
>
>
> Jeff Parker
>
>
>> On 11Nov, 2020, at 10:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> Jeff and Charlie,
>>
>> Why don't you guys work up a preflight checklist for a
>> full-up Z101 and publish it here. After due opportunity
>> for critical review, I'll add it to the Z101 notes
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>> out of that stuff?"
>>
>
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foghorn Inc <foghorn757(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
I=99ll attach my schematic below. I have a VP-X, 2xGRT sport EX
and EIS. My goal is simple and robust.
I actually have more of a 101 than Z14 since I only have one battery.
The Aux ALT (B&C 410) B-lead is run through a hall effect sensor to the
GRT EIS. I didn=99t want to wire up a shunt so I=99m only
using it for Aux Alt Amps reading (hence the =9Ccheck Aux Alt
Amps=9D on the checklist). The Aux Alt regulator is set at 13.9
volts. The primary ALT is connected through the VP-X and will show volts
and amps. It=99s a plane power so we=99ll see how it works
out. I=99ve heard good and bad things about them. If/when it fails
I=99m going to get an externally regulated B&C.
Should I run both B-leads through the hall effect sensor? Should I add
the shunt and get the aux alt volts? Keep in mind that I=99ve only
powered up the complete system once (no smoke) so I haven=99t done
all the settings for the GRT sport and EIS.
I=99ve had John Bright look this over many times and he=99s
very critical. You should have seen my first attempt! Thanks John.
I=99m looking forward to the feed back from the broader audience.
Jeff Parker
> On 11Nov, 2020, at 19:41, Charlie England
wrote:
>
> Looks pretty good to me. I wish I had one to offer, but I'm far enough
from flying that I have not yet created an actual checklist. I did give
operations a lot of thought while laying out the architecture, though,
and I suspect that I'll end up with something very similar to Jeff's.
>
> Jeff, the one thing I noticed was:
> "Aux ALT ON Check Bus amps"
>
> Mine will almost certainly say 'check bus volts', because the low
volts warning will instantly show up, and seems an easy method of
detecting alternator operation, to me. Perhaps my decision to use a
'traditional' SLA battery influences this, since an inactive alternator
will show up as a quite obvious voltage drop. I don't know if the
lithium tech batteries will have as obvious a voltage drop without the
alternator(s) on line.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On 11/11/2020 4:40 PM, Foghorn Inc wrote:
>> Here is what I have for my RV8 project.
>>
>> Fire away!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Parker
>>
>>
>>> On 11Nov, 2020, at 10:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Jeff and Charlie,
>>>
>>> Why don't you guys work up a preflight checklist for a
>>> full-up Z101 and publish it here. After due opportunity
>>> for critical review, I'll add it to the Z101 notes
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>>> out of that stuff?"
>>>
>>
>
>
>
Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Knurled toggle switch wrench |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Group What tool do you like for tightening knurled round toggle switch nuts?
Pliers really don't work too well on some tight areas of panel.
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499350#499350
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Knurled toggle switch wrench |
Another tool for Allan Nimmo to make at Anti-Splat! Or for Steve Melton to
print...
On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 1:30 PM rparigoris wrote:
> rparigor(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Group What tool do you like for tightening knurled round toggle switch
> nuts? Pliers really don't work too well on some tight areas of panel.
>
> Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499350#499350
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Knurled toggle switch wrench |
| From: | "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> |
I haven't used either of them but Mr Google came up with two choices at https://www.stewmac.com/
"Adjustable Toggle Switch Wrench"
and
"ESP Multi Spanner"
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499352#499352
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Parker <foghorn757(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS |
Not sure this went through. I had some account issues but Matt has be back o
n line.
Jeff Parker
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Foghorn Inc <foghorn757(at)gmail.com>
> Date: November 11, 2020 at 22:20:04 EST
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z14 with SDS EM5 ENG BUS
>
> =EF=BBI=99ll attach my schematic below. I have a VP-X, 2xGRT spor
t EX and EIS. My goal is simple and robust.
>
> I actually have more of a 101 than Z14 since I only have one battery. The A
ux ALT (B&C 410) B-lead is run through a hall effect sensor to the GRT EIS. I
didn=99t want to wire up a shunt so I=99m only using it for Aux
Alt Amps reading (hence the =9Ccheck Aux Alt Amps=9D on the che
cklist). The Aux Alt regulator is set at 13.9 volts. The primary ALT is conn
ected through the VP-X and will show volts and amps. It=99s a plane po
wer so we=99ll see how it works out. I=99ve heard good and bad t
hings about them. If/when it fails I=99m going to get an externally re
gulated B&C.
>
> Should I run both B-leads through the hall effect sensor? Should I add the
shunt and get the aux alt volts? Keep in mind that I=99ve only powere
d up the complete system once (no smoke) so I haven=99t done all the s
ettings for the GRT sport and EIS.
>
> I=99ve had John Bright look this over many times and he=99s ve
ry critical. You should have seen my first attempt! Thanks John.
>
> I=99m looking forward to the feed back from the broader audience.
>
>
>
> Jeff Parker
>
>
>
>
>> On 11Nov, 2020, at 19:41, Charlie England wrote:
>>
>> Looks pretty good to me. I wish I had one to offer, but I'm far enough fr
om flying that I have not yet created an actual checklist. I did give operat
ions a lot of thought while laying out the architecture, though, and I suspe
ct that I'll end up with something very similar to Jeff's.
>>
>> Jeff, the one thing I noticed was:
>> "Aux ALT ON Check Bus amps"
>>
>> Mine will almost certainly say 'check bus volts', because the low volts w
arning will instantly show up, and seems an easy method of detecting altern
ator operation, to me. Perhaps my decision to use a 'traditional' SLA batter
y influences this, since an inactive alternator will show up as a quite obvi
ous voltage drop. I don't know if the lithium tech batteries will have as ob
vious a voltage drop without the alternator(s) on line.
>>
>> FWIW,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>> On 11/11/2020 4:40 PM, Foghorn Inc wrote:
>>> Here is what I have for my RV8 project.
>>>
>>> Fire away!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff Parker
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 11Nov, 2020, at 10:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Jeff and Charlie,
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you guys work up a preflight checklist for a
>>>> full-up Z101 and publish it here. After due opportunity
>>>> for critical review, I'll add it to the Z101 notes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob . . .
>>>>
>>>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>>>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>>>> out of that stuff?"
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Soldering Big Connections |
| From: | "MFleming" <sagriver(at)icloud.com> |
After reading Bob's article on soldering big connection I still have some questions.
Is the wicking of solder down the wire causing a rigid wire for the first inch
or so preventable?
Besides a pull test, is it possible to visually recognize a poor solder connection?
--------
Michael Fleming
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499385#499385
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Soldering Big Connections |
Michael,
Bob's instructions are super complete and very detailed because that's what
Bob does so well. I followed his instructions and have now attached two
whole connectors so I consider myself an expert. :-) I can tell you that
the process was much simpler and less intimidating that it seemed from
reading the instructions. I stood my propane torch up on the table. That
left me one hand to get the connector only near enough the flame to melt
solder and a second hand to wield the solder. I melted a ton of solder into
the connection and, when I was done and things had cooled down, it felt
mechanically quite secure.
This is a very low risk project. If you try it and get poor results, all
you have wasted is a bit of wire and a cheap connector or two. If in doubt,
use a short scrap of wire and practice a time or two.
-- Art Z.
On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 2:09 PM MFleming wrote:
>
> After reading Bob's article on soldering big connection I still have some
> questions.
>
> Is the wicking of solder down the wire causing a rigid wire for the first
> inch or so preventable?
>
> Besides a pull test, is it possible to visually recognize a poor solder
> connection?
>
> --------
> Michael Fleming
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others. --
Lynn Schusterman*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Faston Amp Rating |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Group At 14.4 volts, what's the maximum continuous amperage rating for Red,
Blue and Yellow 1/4" Faston Female connectors? Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499387#499387
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike Pienaar <mikepienaar09(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Soldering Big Connections |
I wrapped a small piece of fiberfrax around the insulin on the wire and secu
red it with a small hose clamp
This protected the wire insulation from the propane flame completely and mad
e for a very neat installation
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 1:41 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Michael,
>
> Bob's instructions are super complete and very detailed because that's wha
t Bob does so well. I followed his instructions and have now attached two wh
ole connectors so I consider myself an expert. :-) I can tell you that the p
rocess was much simpler and less intimidating that it seemed from reading th
e instructions. I stood my propane torch up on the table. That left me one h
and to get the connector only near enough the flame to melt solder and a sec
ond hand to wield the solder. I melted a ton of solder into the connection a
nd, when I was done and things had cooled down, it felt mechanically quite s
ecure.
>
> This is a very low risk project. If you try it and get poor results, all y
ou have wasted is a bit of wire and a cheap connector or two. If in doubt, u
se a short scrap of wire and practice a time or two.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 2:09 PM MFleming wrote:
>>
>> After reading Bob's article on soldering big connection I still have some
questions.
>>
>> Is the wicking of solder down the wire causing a rigid wire for the first
inch or so preventable?
>>
>> Besides a pull test, is it possible to visually recognize a poor solder c
onnection?
>>
>> --------
>> Michael Fleming
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
> Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others. -- Ly
nn Schusterman
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soldering Big Connections |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Addressing the wicking issue: Any wire should be supported a short
distance from the termination, so even if the solder wicks up the wire a
short distance, the external support will prevent flexing at the end of
the "wick'd" area. Remember, *all* joints have stress risers; even
crimped joints using PIDG terminals. The metallic insulation grip and
the extended nylon terminal insulator assist with moving the bend
(stress) point away from the crimp point, but the wire still needs
external support.
With a little practice/experience, you can ID an obviously bad solder
joint, but if you start with clean conductors and terminals use a bit of
electronics-type flux, and keep the wire/terminal stationary while it
cools, you'll likely be fine without the ID experience.
An obvious bad joint will often have a rough, dull gray, almost porous
appearance on the exposed solder, and will sometimes have a convex
appearance rather than concave at the point where the solder meets the
copper, where the exposed solder looks analogous to a ball of mercury
sitting on a surface instead of flowing out smoothly to meet the surface
of the copper.
Charlie
On 11/16/2020 3:25 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Bob's instructions are super complete and very detailed because that's
> what Bob does so well. I followed his instructions and have now
> attached two whole connectors so I consider myself an expert. :-) I
> can tell you that the process was much simpler and less intimidating
> that it seemed from reading the instructions. I stood my propane torch
> up on the table. That left me one hand to get the connector only near
> enough the flame to melt solder and a second hand to wield the solder.
> I melted a ton of solder into the connection and, when I was done and
> things had cooled down, it felt mechanically quite secure.
>
> This is a very low risk project. If you try it and get poor results,
> all you have wasted is a bit of wire and a cheap connector or two. If
> in doubt, use a short scrap of wire and practice a time or two.
>
> -- Art Z.
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 2:09 PM MFleming > wrote:
>
> >
>
> After reading Bob's article on soldering big connection I still
> have some questions.
>
> Is the wicking of solder down the wire causing a rigid wire for
> the first inch or so preventable?
>
> Besides a pull test, is it possible to visually recognize a poor
> solder connection?
>
> --------
> Michael Fleming
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
> /Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others.
> -- Lynn Schusterman/
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: Soldering Big Connections |
Suggestions:
1. Wrap a band of conductive metal (aluminum is good) around the insulation up
close to the fitting and clamp it in place. This forms a heat sink.
2. Use minimal solder flux only on the portion of the bare wire that will be inside
the connector.
3. Crimp the connector to remove air space.
4. Add heat and solder from the far end of the connector (end opposite the insulation)
only.
5. When the temperature is right the solder will draw into the connector.
6. Stop adding heat and solder when the solder arrives at the insulation.
7. It's OK to quench in cold water.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 2:29:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Soldering Big Connections
Addressing the wicking issue: Any wire should be supported a short distance from
the termination, so even if the solder wicks up the wire a short distance, the
external support will prevent flexing at the end of the "wick'd" area. Remember,
*all* joints have stress risers; even crimped joints using PIDG terminals.
The metallic insulation grip and the extended nylon terminal insulator assist
with moving the bend (stress) point away from the crimp point, but the wire
still needs external support.
With a little practice/experience, you can ID an obviously bad solder joint, but
if you start with clean conductors and terminals use a bit of electronics-type
flux, and keep the wire/terminal stationary while it cools, you'll likely be
fine without the ID experience.
An obvious bad joint will often have a rough, dull gray, almost porous appearance
on the exposed solder, and will sometimes have a convex appearance rather than
concave at the point where the solder meets the copper, where the exposed
solder looks analogous to a ball of mercury sitting on a surface instead of flowing
out smoothly to meet the surface of the copper.
Charlie
On 11/16/2020 3:25 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
Michael,
Bob's instructions are super complete and very detailed because that's what Bob
does so well. I followed his instructions and have now attached two whole connectors
so I consider myself an expert. :-) I can tell you that the process was
much simpler and less intimidating that it seemed from reading the instructions.
I stood my propane torch up on the table. That left me one hand to get the
connector only near enough the flame to melt solder and a second hand to wield
the solder. I melted a ton of solder into the connection and, when I was done
and things had cooled down, it felt mechanically quite secure.
This is a very low risk project. If you try it and get poor results, all you have
wasted is a bit of wire and a cheap connector or two. If in doubt, use a short
scrap of wire and practice a time or two.
-- Art Z.
On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 2:09 PM MFleming < sagriver(at)icloud.com > wrote:
After reading Bob's article on soldering big connection I still have some questions.
Is the wicking of solder down the wire causing a rigid wire for the first inch
or so preventable?
Besides a pull test, is it possible to visually recognize a poor solder connection?
--------
Michael Fleming
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others. -- Lynn Schusterman
Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Faston Amp Rating |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I expect that the ampacity of a Faston is equal to that of the
largest wire size that will fit into the barrel of the Faston.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499398#499398
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Faston Amp Rating |
| From: | "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> |
Wikipedia has an article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FASTON_terminal
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499406#499406
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Soldering Big Connections |
>With a little practice/experience, you can ID an obviously bad
>solder joint, but if you start with clean conductors and terminals
>use a bit of electronics-type flux, and keep the wire/terminal
>stationary while it cools, you'll likely be fine without the ID experience.
Most top of the line electronic solders come with
an electronics-friendly flux built in. I have some
cans of zinc-chloride flux around here somewhere . . .
really handy for righteous joinery on sweated copper
fittings . . . but little else.
If your wires/connectors are old then it may be
useful to add some extra flux . . . like this
stuff:
https://tinyurl.com/y2r4klpl
It's a liquid flux dispensed not unlike paint
pens. You can hold the dispensing tip against
your exposed strands and 'pump' out some electrically
friendly flux that will readily wick into the strands.
>An obvious bad joint will often have a rough, dull gray, almost
>porous appearance on the exposed solder, and will sometimes have a
>convex appearance rather than concave at the point where the solder
>meets the copper, where the exposed solder looks analogous to a ball
>of mercury sitting on a surface instead of flowing out smoothly to
>meet the surface of the copper.
Use only 63/37 (or at worst 60/40) tin-lead solder.
You can't make a 'cold joint' with 63/37 solder
if you tried.
Recall that 63/37 solder's phase diagram has
no 'plastic' range. This means that as the
solder cools, it passes very quickly from
liquid to solid giving you no chance to
scramble the matrix of semi-solid melt
creating a weak and porous mass.
So if you're attempting this fat-wire
termination for the first time, do practice
a bit. Install a couple of terminals on
scrap wire first.
'Wicking' of solder up the running strands
is easy to avoid. Don't get the components to
be joined too hot. Apply heat only to the
terminal concentrating on the end of the
barrel away from the wire. As you feed
what seems like A LOT of solder into the
joint, the FIRST appearance of solder at
the little space between wire insulation
and terminal barrel says STOP. Your done.
Water flows down hill . . . solder flows
from cooler to warmer. Centering your
heat source on the flag-end of the
terminal wire barrel will encourage the
solder flow away only as the materials
to be joined warm up to the solder's
melting point.
Artful crimps depend on a confirmed compatibility
of wire, terminal and crimp tool to achieve
a gas-tight joint. People in the business
for decades can only guarantee THEIR
terminals applied with THEIR tools onto
specified wires. This isn't a brazen
move to capture market share. It's a
warranty of performance backed up by
their laboratory testing.
But consider the solder-filled voids
between terminal barrel, wire strands and
copper wedges called out in the fat-wire
termination article.
I humbly suggest this is the ultimate
example of low-force, gas-tight connection.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
i am looking for a way to measure temp. of a gearbox from the outside [no threaded
holes]. my eis already has a lead for a resistive type 1/8npt oil temp probe.
there must be flat, glue on probes available but i drew a blank with mcmaster
carr and have no idea where to look.
thanks, bob noffs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499409#499409
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com> |
Snip...
Q: i am looking for a way to measure temp. of a gearbox from the outside
[no threaded holes].
A: Thermocouple or thermistor ? Both are readily available. Thermocouples
are of different types for specific temp ranges. They output a voltage
proportional to the temperature at the junction.
Thermistors are resistors with a linear temp/resistance coefficient within
a given range of temperature
>From Wikipedia
Type E[edit
]
Type E (chromel =93constantan
) has a high output (68 =C2=B5V/
=C2=B0C),
which makes it well suited to cryogenic
use. Additionally, it is
non-magnetic. Wide range is =88=9250 =C2=B0C to +740 =C2=B0C and narrow
range is =88=92110 =C2=B0C
to +140 =C2=B0C.
Type J[edit
]
Type J (iron =93constantan
) has a more restricted range
(=88=9240 =C2=B0C to +750 =C2=B0C) than type K but higher sensitivity of
about 50 =C2=B5V/=C2=B0C.[2]
The Cu
rie
point of the iron (770 =C2=B0C)
[9]
causes a smooth
change in the characteristic, which determines the upper temperature limit.
Note, the European/German Type L is a variant of the type J, with a
different specification for the EMF output (reference DIN 43712:1985-01[10]
).
Type K[edit
]
Type K (chromel =93alumel
) is the most common general-purpose
thermocouple with a sensitivity of approximately 41 =C2=B5V/=C2=B0C.[11]
It is
inexpensive, and a wide variety of probes are available in its =88=92200
=C2=B0C to
+1350 =C2=B0C (=88=92330 =C2=B0F to +2460 =C2=B0F) range.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple
A *thermistor* is a resistance thermometer, or a resistor whose resistance
is dependent on temperature. The term is a combination of =9Cthermal
=9D and
=9Cresistor=9D. It is made of metallic oxides, pressed into a b
ead, disk, or
cylindrical shape and then encapsulated with an impermeable material such
as epoxy or glass. Much less mechanically robust than a thermocouple.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor
...chris
RV-8
On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:09 PM bobnoffs wrote:
>
> i am looking for a way to measure temp. of a gearbox from the outside [no
> threaded holes]. my eis already has a lead for a resistive type 1/8npt oi
l
> temp probe. there must be flat, glue on probes available but i drew a bla
nk
> with mcmaster carr and have no idea where to look.
> thanks, bob noffs
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499409#499409
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 2:09 PM bobnoffs wrote:
>
> i am looking for a way to measure temp. of a gearbox from the outside [no
> threaded holes]. my eis already has a lead for a resistive type 1/8npt oil
> temp probe. there must be flat, glue on probes available but i drew a blank
> with mcmaster carr and have no idea where to look.
> thanks, bob noffs
>
If I had the proper 1/8npt probe on hand, I'd seriously consider just
threading a small block of aluminum with a 1/8npt tap, screwing the probe
into the block, and securing it with a couple of hose clamps if the
location lends itself to that, or clean the location & glue the block to
the gearbox with hi-temp epoxy (or RTV) if the hose clamps aren't feasible.
You can 'insulate' the adapter block with some silicone hose scrap, or just
cover it with RTV. The interior will always be a bit hotter than the probe
indicates, but that's the penalty for not having direct contact with the
lube in the box.
Charlie
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John M Tipton <john(at)tipton.me.uk> |
When my friend pre flights his R22 helicopter he has to check various little
stuck on =98heat spot indicators=99, would these be of any help
as I presume you only want to know if the temperature is hotter than it sho
uld be ~
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 17 Nov 2020, at 9:22 pm, Charlie England wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>
>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 2:09 PM bobnoffs wrote:
>>
>> i am looking for a way to measure temp. of a gearbox from the outside [no
threaded holes]. my eis already has a lead for a resistive type 1/8npt oil t
emp probe. there must be flat, glue on probes available but i drew a blank w
ith mcmaster carr and have no idea where to look.
>> thanks, bob noffs
>
> If I had the proper 1/8npt probe on hand, I'd seriously consider just thre
ading a small block of aluminum with a 1/8npt tap, screwing the probe into t
he block, and securing it with a couple of hose clamps if the location lends
itself to that, or clean the location & glue the block to the gearbox with h
i-temp epoxy (or RTV) if the hose clamps aren't feasible. You can 'insulate'
the adapter block with some silicone hose scrap, or just cover it with RTV.
The interior will always be a bit hotter than the probe indicates, but that
's the penalty for not having direct contact with the lube in the box.
>
> Charlie
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
i really need to know the temp as the gearbox is lubed by engine oil. temp will
be relative to engine oil temp
bob noffs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499421#499421
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent or Jackie Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
I would think a cheap sparkplug CHT thermocouple tightly bolted to the gearbox and a CHT gauge would do it. It is also pretty easy to make a bayonet probe that could be screwed into your NPT hole. This will give you some links https://www.canardzone.com/forums/topic/33499-edm-sparkplug-gaskets-high-temps/?do=findComment&comment=63661
If you only need 6-8 feet of CHT wire, send PM-me your address and Ill send you
some. You just twist the ends together to get a CHT probe
-Kent
> On Nov 18, 2020, at 7:31 AM, bobnoffs wrote:
>
>
> i really need to know the temp as the gearbox is lubed by engine oil. temp will
be relative to engine oil temp
> bob noffs
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499421#499421
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 6:36 AM bobnoffs wrote:
>
> i really need to know the temp as the gearbox is lubed by engine oil. temp
> will be relative to engine oil temp
> bob noffs
>
Knowing that makes the solution a lot simpler; I was working on
the assumption that you couldn't tap the lube reservoir. If it's
pressure-lubed by engine oil, just use a return line fitting in the case
that's tapped 1/8npt for the sensor. You can buy them already drilled &
tapped, or drill & tap one yourself. Attached is an image of one I
drilled/tapped, with the 1st 1/8npt fitting that was handy. If the return
line is a -4, then use a T fitting with the sensor tapped into one leg of
the T. (Complete info is helpful to help find solutions.)
That method will tell you the oil temp *after* the gearbox heats it up. Be
sure of the mfgr's specs; if they spec oil *inlet* temp (most common for
engine oil temp specs), then you'll scare yourself unnecessarily. Ideally,
I'd want both inlet and outlet temps, so I could see temp delta through the
box. If you only have one sensor input available on the monitor, you could
achieve that with a simple double throw switch in the sensor lines.
If you don't like those ideas, you could always tap the drain plug itself
for the sensor (if it has one).
Hope that's useful,
Charlie
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Self excited SD-8 grounds |
| From: | "Tailwind1" <timmikus38(at)gmail.com> |
I am wiring an SD-8 permanent magnet alternator using Z25 for the self-excitation
feature,
Regarding the grounds for the diode bridge (note 25) and the on/of switch controlling
the relay, are there any reasons why using local grounds (instrument panel
structure bolted to a tubular airframe) will create problems or should I run
the ground wires to the forest of tabs on the firewall (also grounded to the
tubular structure)?
Also, how much current is carried by the diode bridge ground (what size wire required)?
Looking to avoid extra ground wire runs unless really needed for noise or reliability.
Thanks, Tim
--------
Flying Sonerai II with A80 Continental. Wittman W10 Tailwind under construction,
O360, dual LSE electronic ignition, airframe complete and covered, engine hung,
cowl built. Working on electrical, instrumentation, and other details.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499426#499426
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
thanks for all the ideas.
my gearbox has a drain line from the bottom of the box to the oil sump. engine
oil is fed in the top of the box. my plan it to put a tee in the drainline and
a temp. sender in the tee. i think with this setup i can watch for any changes
in gearbox temps.
bob noffs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499427#499427
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
After many years of monitoring a couple of aftermarket psru's I found
that temperature and real time vibration monitoring was of minimal use.
Filter residue told the story but it might be many hours between oil and
filter changes. A magnet that can easily be checked definitely saved my
bacon though. One was In a brass T fitting such as you describe for a
temperature sensor. Even better is a magnetic chip detector with a
cockpit warning light if there are significant concerns.
Ken
On 18/11/2020 9:21 PM, bobnoffs wrote:
>
> thanks for all the ideas.
> my gearbox has a drain line from the bottom of the box to the oil sump. engine
oil is fed in the top of the box. my plan it to put a tee in the drainline
and a temp. sender in the tee. i think with this setup i can watch for any changes
in gearbox temps.
> bob noffs
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499427#499427
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soldering Big Connections |
| From: | "MFleming" <sagriver(at)icloud.com> |
Boy, Bob was right about taking a chunk of wire to the parts store to select the
proper size ring connector. The 4 AWG connecters were really sloppy in my 4
AWG welding wire and the 6 AWG connectors were just right.
Well off to the shop I went armed with everyones advice a handful of scrap wire
and connectors. I was able to make some very nice connections. The wicking was
minimized or non existent. I cut several of them apart, they looked great. I
could not separate the sliced in half connector from the wire...it was like it
was welded!
Thanks to all
-Michael Fleming
--------
Michael Fleming
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499429#499429
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Faston Amp Rating |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Group Thanks for reply. FWIW I did a quick test with a #12 wire and 1/4" Faston.
I installed and wiggled it back and forth a bit (made connection looser)
and after a few minutes connection was getting a little warm. I compressed with
pliers and tried it at 30 amps and no significant warming. Tension is critical
to achieve best results. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499430#499430
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
the chip detector sounds like a much more positive way to go than a magnetic plug.
i will look into that too. hopefully there are industrial ones that don't
have the faa's million dollar stamp of approval. thanks.
bob noffs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499431#499431
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Hi Bob,
a friend of mine had very positive results with EATON,Part No: B3225C,
5/8" x 18 UNF
He did add this on a Rotax where he had a catastrophic engine failure
(and no metal in the oil filter).
Thttp://www.experimental.ch/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Viktorwings_Chip-Detector-%C3%96l-Schnellablass.pdf
<http://www.experimental.ch/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Viktorwings_Chip-Detector-%C3%96l-Schnellablass.pdf>
On 19.11.2020 12:43, bobnoffs wrote:
>
> the chip detector sounds like a much more positive way to go than a magnetic
plug. i will look into that too. hopefully there are industrial ones that don't
have the faa's million dollar stamp of approval. thanks.
> bob noffs
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499431#499431
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 01:56 PM 11/17/2020, you wrote:
>
>i am looking for a way to measure temp. of a gearbox from the
>outside [no threaded holes]. my eis already has a lead for a
>resistive type 1/8npt oil temp probe. there must be flat, glue on
>probes available but i drew a blank with mcmaster carr and have no
>idea where to look.
> thanks, bob noffs
That is a problem. Legacy pipe-thread temperatures
sensors are of the thermistor type . . . which is
CORE to the problem. Thermistors come in a constellation
of characteristics for temperature vs. resistance and
a host of non-linear curves.
Does your eis installation manual call out a
suggested part nu
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
i have looked into the temp sender and it appears to be a resistive single wire.
i think these are very common. a cross reference # took me to one used in a
cont. 0-200. sold by dynon so i think i have got that part. i was hoping for a
flat, platelike sender compatable with my eis. i can make do with the 1/8' npt
type sender.
bob noffs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499435#499435
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
i would be interested in reading about the chip detecter but the link didn't work.
i can not find that part number.
bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499436#499436
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> |
bobnoffs wrote:
> i would be interested in reading about the chip detecter but the link didn't
work. i can not find that part number.
> bob
It had an errant T in front of it. Here it is without the T.
http://www.experimental.ch/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Viktorwings_Chip-Detector-%C3%96l-Schnellablass.pdf
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499437#499437
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
the chip detecter looks like a good idea but i don't have a place to mount it.
it is way over my head to drill and tap a hole in the gearbox case.
maybe down the road it would be a job for someone competent when it is inspected.
bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499444#499444
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 05:31 AM 11/20/2020, you wrote:
>
>the chip detecter looks like a good idea but i don't have a place to
>mount it. it is way over my head to drill and tap a hole in the gearbox case.
> maybe down the road it would be a job for someone competent when
> it is inspected.
>
Adding a pipe-thread hole in the casting is
probably the easiest of tasks. Straight thread
taps are not 'self aligning' and it's too easy
to have your tap start cutting on a slightly
axially mis-aligned orientation. Pipe threads are tapered
and they start cutting with a minimum of attention
to position and force . . . you can concentrate
on axial alignment and the tap takes care of the
rest.
This thread begs some questions:
Is this a flooded, pressurize gearbox?
Fed with engine oil?
Are there any instances of field failures due
to degraded gearing?
Were these judged to be conditions long-in-the-
making that MIGHT have telegraphed impending
failure by increased temperature, metal
chips in oil, noise, etc?
What are the recommendations of the manufacturer
for monitoring gear box condition?
If it is judged that addition of any sensors
by penetrating the gearbox case is a good thing
to do, where is the best place for locating
those sensors. There will be optimum locations
after consideration of structural issues, temperature
gradients, optimal chip-congregation points, etc.
If this box is lubricated with circulated engine
oil, then I'm skeptical of the value of adding
any single temperature sensor. You've got hot
oil coming in. You'll want to know TEMPERATURE
RISE attributable to gear box wear.
What is the experience of the user community
with respect to this topic? It naturally seems
like a cool thing to add such sensors but
before you venture forth, it would pay to know
if such sensors are KNOWN to be effective along
with protocols for interpreting what a temperature
gage is telling you.
I seem to recall a similar discussion many moons
ago on another forum . . . perhaps Compuserv AVSIG
. . . wherein a reader suggested that the best
harbinger of impending gearbox doom was a dial
indicator he could firmly affix to some part
of the airplane to measure backlash in the gearing.
The observed number would rise noticeably long
before the gearbox trashed.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Allen <billallensworld(at)gmail.com> |
Most chip detectors fit where the drain plug goes. You can get them from
salvage yards where they break helicopters. That=99s where I got mine
.
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 at 11:42, bobnoffs wrote:
>
> the chip detecter looks like a good idea but i don't have a place to moun
t
> it. it is way over my head to drill and tap a hole in the gearbox case.
> maybe down the road it would be a job for someone competent when it is
> inspected.
> bob
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499444#499444
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
A few folks have made their own chip detector. A pair of metal probes
with a magnet epoxied into a pipe plug. Where possible expose it to oil
flowing in a line going to a filter. It's important to catch bearing
failures before they progress too far and periodic oil and filter
changes may not be frequent enough.
Ken
On 20/11/2020 11:47 AM, Bill Allen wrote:
> Most chip detectors fit where the drain plug goes. You can get them
> from salvage yards where they break helicopters. Thats where I got mine.
>
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 at 11:42, bobnoffs > wrote:
>
> >
>
> the chip detecter looks like a good idea but i don't have a place
> to mount it. it is way over my head to drill and tap a hole in the
> gearbox case.
> maybe down the road it would be a job for someone competent when
> it is inspected.
> bob
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499444#499444
>
>
> ==========
> -
> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
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> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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> Sent from Gmail Mobile
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
I admit adding a chip detector is a stretch but I think a temp probe could be valuable.
You are not looking for absolute temp but a trend compared to engine
oil temp.
If I had a gearbox with a hx of failure I would probably be looking for another
gearbox. Kind of like having an engine oil analysis. Maybe I will see something
coming
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499457#499457
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 06:29 PM 11/20/2020, you wrote:
>
>I admit adding a chip detector is a stretch but I think a temp probe
>could be valuable. You are not looking for absolute temp but a
>trend compared to engine oil temp.
> If I had a gearbox with a hx of failure I would probably be
> looking for another gearbox. Kind of like having an engine oil
> analysis. Maybe I will see something coming
>
Does this gearbox have a history of failures?
Has root cause been identified? If a chip
detector has been deemed the most practical
impending failure warning system, does the
generation of metal in the oil flow
pose a risk to the engine? Should the oil
return line be filtered? If so, would it not
be more practical to add a filter with a
chip detector?
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan <limadelta(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dimmers without switches |
For reasons of size/spacing I ordered 4 potentiometers (5k ohms) with
longer shafts to replace the ones with my VAL CLA 500 dimmer unit. But the
units I ordered do not have a SPST switch that turns them off when rotated
all the way counter clockwise. (The other ones have the switch, but I need
the longer shaft). If I use them, would I need a separate switch for the
dimmer unit, or could I leave the four potentiometers "on" but rotated
fully clockwise while keeping the light off. Would that mean they would be
drawing a continuous load all the time?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dimmers without switches |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 11/21/2020 6:59 PM, Dan wrote:
> For reasons of size/spacing I ordered 4 potentiometers (5k ohms) with
> longer shafts to replace the ones with my VAL CLA 500 dimmer unit.
> But the units I ordered do not have a SPST switch that turns them off
> when rotated all the way counter clockwise. (The other ones have the
> switch, but I need the longer shaft). If I use them, would I need a
> separate switch for the dimmer unit, or could I leave the four
> potentiometers "on" but rotated fully clockwise while keeping the
> light off. Would that mean they would be drawing a continuous load
> all the time?
How about
https://www.google.com/search?q=volume+control+shaft+extension&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS843US843&oq=volume+control+shaft+extension&aqs=chrome..69i57.11893j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
instead?
Charlie
--
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Small wires running with big wires |
| From: | "MFleming" <sagriver(at)icloud.com> |
I searched though the list but didn't find anything related to this. If it's here,
my apologies.
My master and stater solenoids got installed along with an ANL fuse and shunt on
the firewall today.
My RV-7 plans show the main buss wire (6 AWG), master switch and starter switch
wires going through the same firewall penetration.
In addition I have a clearance delivery buss wire (14 AWG) and the 2 shunt sensor
wires I would like to have go through the same penetration. additionally all
these wires would be bundled together for about 2.5' before the big wires split
off from the little wires.
I'm not worried about having the master and starter switch wires following this
route but I'm unsure if the shunt wires would be adversely affected by the proximity
to the big power wires.
Of course I could reroute the shunt wires but the most efficient route is as mentioned
above.
--------
Michael Fleming
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499472#499472
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small wires running with big wires |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
All of the wires that you mentioned can be run together without worry of interference.
The wires that are most vulnerable are audio wires, especially those whose signals
get amplified.
Do not let the metallic parts of audio jacks touch metal airframe parts.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499473#499473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimmers without switches |
At 08:01 PM 11/21/2020, you wrote:
>England
>
>On 11/21/2020 6:59 PM, Dan wrote:
>>For reasons of size/spacing I ordered 4
>>potentiometers (5k ohms) with longer shafts to
>>replace the ones with my VAL CLA 500 dimmer
>>unit.=C2 But the units I ordered do not have a
>>SPST switch that turns them off when rotated
>>all the way counter clockwise.=C2 (The other
>>ones have the switch, but I need the longer
>>shaft).=C2 If I use them, would I need a
>>separate switch for the dimmer unit, or could I
>>leave the four potentiometers "on" but rotated
>>fully clockwise while keeping the light
>>off.=C2 Would that mean they would be drawing a continuous load all the
time?
>How about
>https://www.google.com/search?q=volume+control+shaft+extension&rlz=1C1C
HBF_enUS843US843&oq=volume+control+shaft+extension&aqs=chrome..69i57.118
93j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
>instead?
>
>Charlie
There is a case to be made for not turning
panels lights completely OFF . . . just dimming
them to an intensity that is at the minimum
that would be used in flight.
See chapter on lighting in the 'Connection.
You'll read an explanation of how keeping
incandescent bulbs 'warm' increases their
durability under vibration. Of course this
doesn't apply for LED.
Our line of dimmer assemblies from years
past set the max CCW voltage at about 4
volts. No significant light output. But
the lights would 'come alive' at the first
rotation of the pot.
Be aware too that many pots with switches
are 'volume controls' and do not have linear
rotation vs. voltage curves.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small wires running with big wires |
At 06:34 AM 11/23/2020, you wrote:
>
>All of the wires that you mentioned can be run together without
>worry of interference.
>The wires that are most vulnerable are audio wires, especially those
>whose signals get amplified.
and even then . . . the system designers will call out
shielded wire where appropriate along with how those
shields are to be terminated.
There is no good reason to separate bundles of
wires for the various systems as a hedge against
noise.
Back before they learned better, ADF installations
in a single engine Cessna came with a kit for adding
shields to alternator wiring . . . later the shields
became 'standard'. I could never find anyone in the
SE Electrical Group that could point to any empirical
testing or analysis of the physics that justified
this non-trivial expense. This wiring diagram
is an excerpt from a C172 service manual.
Short answer is: route wires as appropriate to
construction goals.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vaughn Teegarden <europaul260i(at)bvu.net> |
| Subject: | Europa XS #191 Project For Sale |
I am unable to complete my project. See attachment for details.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
well, here's where i am at. the gearbox feeds the oil sump with a 1/2'id hose.
the run is about 18' long. my plan is to install a tee with hose barbs as close
as possible to the gearbox. maybe insulate the barb and hose to the gearbox.
some kind of pattern will develop. gearbox at cruise when 60 deg oat runs 20
cooler than coolant, runs the same as coolant etc. i should be able to get a
meaningful warning by watching those numbers. maybe not as good as a closed gearbox
but way better than 'do you smell something hot?'
i am also thinking of another tee downstream , close to the sump. a magnetic
plug will have to do. again, way better than nothing.
final fittings and hookup will remain to be seen until i begin actually taking
the oil line apart.
thanks to all for the suggestions, it really helped.
bob noffs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499486#499486
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
My plane has been stranded all summer at KTTA, which is a 25 minute flight
from my home airport, KJNX.=C2- That's a good hour drive.=C2- I broke a
pushrod while on approach there back in the early summer.=C2- Finally go
t the engine back on and flew her home this past Saturday.=C2- I wasn't a
t all comfortable with this flight, even though I had spent hours flying to
uch and goes around KTTA, so my buddy, Dwight, agreed to fly chase. =C2-
Halfway home, the RPM indicator started dropping.=C2- I reported the prob
lem to Dwight, and he guided me to Triple-W, but on the way down I was noti
cing that the speed wasn't dropping.=C2- In fact, I checked and was able
to climb AND speed up!!=C2- I also wasn't hearing the RPM drop off like t
he tachometer was indicating it should.
I soon identified the suspect to be where I was picking up the RPM signal f
rom.=C2- I was using the signal produced by the permanent magnet generato
r, and I had replaced my old generator with a new, stronger one.=C2- The
permanent magnets produce an AC signal that is exactly 3 pulses per revolut
ion.=C2- Until the regulator hits its set point, that is.=C2- Once the
battery is fully charged, the regulator switches the signal off, it goes hi
gh, and stays there.=C2- The engine monitor no longer sees a pulse, just
a high value and interprets that as a lower RPM.=C2- I checked the theory
by turning on every electrical load I had, and sure enough the RPM started
rising without touching the throttle.=C2- The RPM didn't go all the way
back up,
I have to find another method of picking up the rpm.=C2- I already have a
reluctor.=C2- Just have to install it.=C2- But, a word to the wise. .
. don't use the generator as a tachometer source.=C2- This is experimenta
l aviation, and I consider this experiment to be a success.=C2- I learned
something, and no metal was bent in the process.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
Interesting stuff!
Best Regards,
Bob Verwey
082 331 2727
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 at 16:13, Ernest Christley wrote:
> My plane has been stranded all summer at KTTA, which is a 25 minute flight
> from my home airport, KJNX. That's a good hour drive. I broke a pushrod
> while on approach there back in the early summer. Finally got the engine
> back on and flew her home this past Saturday. I wasn't at all comfortable
> with this flight, even though I had spent hours flying touch and goes
> around KTTA, so my buddy, Dwight, agreed to fly chase.
>
> Halfway home, the RPM indicator started dropping. I reported the problem
> to Dwight, and he guided me to Triple-W, but on the way down I was
> noticing that the speed wasn't dropping. In fact, I checked and was able
> to climb AND speed up!! I also wasn't hearing the RPM drop off like the
> tachometer was indicating it should.
>
> I soon identified the suspect to be where I was picking up the RPM signal
> from. I was using the signal produced by the permanent magnet generator,
> and I had replaced my old generator with a new, stronger one. The
> permanent magnets produce an AC signal that is exactly 3 pulses per
> revolution. Until the regulator hits its set point, that is. Once the
> battery is fully charged, the regulator switches the signal off, it goes
> high, and stays there. The engine monitor no longer sees a pulse, just a
> high value and interprets that as a lower RPM. I checked the theory by
> turning on every electrical load I had, and sure enough the RPM started
> rising without touching the throttle. The RPM didn't go all the way back
> up,
>
> I have to find another method of picking up the rpm. I already have a
> reluctor. Just have to install it. But, a word to the wise. . . don't use
> the generator as a tachometer source. This is experimental aviation, and I
> consider this experiment to be a success. I learned something, and no
> metal was bent in the process.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 8:13 AM Ernest Christley wrote:
> My plane has been stranded all summer at KTTA, which is a 25 minute flight
> from my home airport, KJNX. That's a good hour drive. I broke a pushrod
> while on approach there back in the early summer. Finally got the engine
> back on and flew her home this past Saturday. I wasn't at all comfortable
> with this flight, even though I had spent hours flying touch and goes
> around KTTA, so my buddy, Dwight, agreed to fly chase.
>
> Halfway home, the RPM indicator started dropping. I reported the problem
> to Dwight, and he guided me to Triple-W, but on the way down I was
> noticing that the speed wasn't dropping. In fact, I checked and was able
> to climb AND speed up!! I also wasn't hearing the RPM drop off like the
> tachometer was indicating it should.
>
> I soon identified the suspect to be where I was picking up the RPM signal
> from. I was using the signal produced by the permanent magnet generator,
> and I had replaced my old generator with a new, stronger one. The
> permanent magnets produce an AC signal that is exactly 3 pulses per
> revolution. Until the regulator hits its set point, that is. Once the
> battery is fully charged, the regulator switches the signal off, it goes
> high, and stays there. The engine monitor no longer sees a pulse, just a
> high value and interprets that as a lower RPM. I checked the theory by
> turning on every electrical load I had, and sure enough the RPM started
> rising without touching the throttle. The RPM didn't go all the way back
> up,
>
> I have to find another method of picking up the rpm. I already have a
> reluctor. Just have to install it. But, a word to the wise. . . don't use
> the generator as a tachometer source. This is experimental aviation, and I
> consider this experiment to be a success. I learned something, and no
> metal was bent in the process.
>
>
Yeah, there are times when I'm too smart for my own good, as
well....Congrats on remembering to 'fly the plane'; you're obviously a
better pilot than the highly trained airline crew that flew an airliner
into the ground while playing with a circuit breaker. And congrats on a
safe outcome, as well.
Charlie
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
>> don't use the generator as a tachometer source.
I have a type certified aircraft that does it uses a commercial (BOSCH) 28v truck
alternator, and an automotive tach. All flight instruments are (should be)
single point redundant. You just have to know that if the alternator belt fails
or the alternator has to be taken offline for some reason, you have to manage
without the tach. Not a big deal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
Ahh!=C2- You have an alternator.=C2- An alternator controls the output
power by decreasing the power going to the electromagnet.=C2- If the sys
tem needs a tenth of the name plate rating of the alternator, the circuit d
rops the input to one tenth.=C2- The output pulses from the stator contin
ue...albeit, at one tenth the power.
With a generator, there is no way to manage the strength of the magnets.=C2
- So=C2- to control output, the regulator just switches off the circuit
coming from the stator.=C2- At least with this regulator.=C2- If I wer
e using a shunt regulator, it would let the stator keep on pushing electron
s, and then dump the unneeded ones to ground through a resistor.=C2- The
pulses would continue in that case.
I would be happy to live with a bum RPM signal in the case where the altern
ator broke.=C2- But, this is a bum RPM signal when the thing is working a
s (poorly) designed.=C2- :-(
rs.com> wrote:
>> don't use the generator as a tachometer source.
I have a type certified aircraft that does it uses a commercial (B
OSCH) 28v truck alternator, and an automotive tach. All flight instruments
are (should be) single point redundant. You just have to know that if the a
lternator belt fails or the alternator has to be taken offline for some rea
son, you have to manage without the tach. Not a big deal.
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
My master switch is specified as an AN 3023-2. I have been unable to find any
documentation on just what that is, other than some type of DPST switch. Is there
a source for decoding the AN switch specifications?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499495#499495
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
At 09:06 AM 11/24/2020, you wrote:
>
>
> >> don't use the generator as a tachometer source.
>
>I have a type certified aircraft that does=85 it
>uses a commercial (BOSCH) 28v truck alternator,
>and an automotive tach. All flight instruments
>are (should be) single point redundant. You just
>have to know that if the alternator belt fails
>or the alternator has to be taken offline for
>some reason, you have to manage without the tach. Not a big deal.
Exactly. It's useful to 'become one' with your airplane
as opposed to being an 'operator'. I recall a fairly
'experienced' pilot showing up a K1K1 wanting to exploit
our rental fleet. I invited him to join me in a 150 and
to show me his stuff.
We went around the patch a couple of times and it
was pretty obvious that he was a gage-watcher. I
suggested to him that our little grass-patch was
both home to and a favorite nice-day-for-flying way
point for no radio airplanes.
I suggested that it was quite possible to safely
operate the airplane with only the occasional
glance at the gages . . . if at all. I got
the partial-panel covers out and covered up
ALL of the instruments in front of him and
suggested, "let's go flying".
We went around the patch a few more times while
I queried him about what he could hear and feel
from the airplane. I pointed out that the 150
could not be stalled if you can see the horizon
over the nose. The engine was impossible to
over-speed except in a dive. Suggested that
he put the nose on the horizon for climb-out.
We peeked under the IAS cover and yeah, not exactly
Vx but entirely satisfactory.
I demonstrated turning to final at pattern
altitude from 1/2 mile out. Throttle down,
hold level speed bleeds off then nose down
while milking the flaps down to full. Trim
down until you see that famous Cessna barn-door-
flaps picture out the windshield. Then
power up only as necessary to target
the numbers.
We did that a couple of times before we parked
and went into the office to get him on the
approved renters list. I suggested that he
practice those kinds of maneuvers himself
with the gages visible but glance at them
not so much with a notion of nailing the
numbers as maintaining a comfortable flight
condition . . . and paying attention to
what ELSE is going on outside.
The day I got my licence, the chief flight
instructor at United Beech was doing my
checkride. It was early Sunday morning with
very little traffic at KICT. We went to the
practice area to demonstrate the time-honored
basics and then headed for home. Half way
along the downwind he pulled the throttle
back and asked, "okay, now what?"
I asked the tower for and was granted
a short approach. The arrival with the runway
wasn't particularly graceful and hardly
a stabilized approach but the energy
budget for controlled flight was not
over drawn. He said, "I've seen better
but all-in-all, not bad". He signed off my
ticket on the taxi back to the ramp.
I didn't realize until years later what
an exceptional crew of instructors taught
out of United Beech on KICT. Yeah, there
are times when finely tuned numbers are
important . . . like when boring holes
in the crud. But those numbers are icing
on the cake for competent operation of
the airplane especially when dealing
with the unexpected . . . like when
that pretty glass screen goes dark . . .
okay, now what?
What you see, hear and feel are the ultimate
back-up system for avoiding bad days in the
cockpit.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <mike(at)vision499.com> |
| Subject: | Slickstart Current Draw update |
Hello,
Awhile back I mentioned my Slickstart unit that needed a 10amp fuse to
operate whereas the factory recommended fuse is 5 amp and current draw from
other users is much less.
The unit is installed on a LOM engine and was unused when I bought it
locally, the previous owner bought it for a project that never happened.
Other LOM users have reported no problems.
I sent the unit back to the Champion Aerospace and they reported that the
unit was manufactured in 1997 and that they tested it numerous times and
found nothing wrong.
I enquired how they test it and this is what they replied
"Mike, The ATP is a computer test of internal circuitry and output energy
and tests all the internals, none of these parts should deteriorate with
age."
Could someone with more insight please advise if I should accept this or
should I ask them to test it under "real" conditions
Thanks
Mike
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Nelson" <panelsonms(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello All,
I'm new to the community and trying to come up with an electrical system design
I'm happy with for SDS EFI. I started with something based on Z-14, but with
modifications to make it suitable for SDS - this could be an entire separate
topic. I have since found Z101B and I really like it so far!
Has anyone implemented Z101B yet? I had a few questions about the design:
1. Has anyone tried to measure battery current instead of alternator current?
I'm guessing this won't work easily because there are too many fat wires to pass
through the hall effect sensor.
2. I noticed the aux alternator B-lead is always hot. This could cause the battery
to drain if one of the alternator diodes fails. I don't see a quick fix.
Any suggestions?
3. Any reason the functions of "alt bus" and "alt alternator" should be tied together?
Seems like they can be operated independently with separate switches
and doing so seems less confusing - for me at least.
4. I was planning to have the main bus in the cabin so I'll need to add an ANL
fuse between the battery contactor and main bus. I guess this is more of a comment
than a question. Along the same lines, shouldn't the brownout bus feed
through the contactor have an ANL fuse?
5. Any reason to not power the brownout booster from the starter side of the start
contactor? This would reduce the load being switched by the start button.
I really don't want those contacts to weld.
Any comments/suggestions appreciated. Thank you everyone!
-Patrick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499498#499498
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
>I have to find another method of picking up the rpm. I already have
>a reluctor. Just have to install it. But, a word to the wise. . .
>don't use the generator as a tachometer source. This is
>experimental aviation, and I consider this experiment to be a
>success. I learned something, and no metal was bent in the process.
Actually, gear driven pm alternators are FINE
rpm signal sources provided that the interface
between AC 'signal' from the alternator
has the right characteristics to drive the
tachometer.
The tachometer's installation instructions should
speak to voltages, waveforms and dc offsets
tolerated by the tachometer electronics. Of course,
there's the matter of scale factor . . . tach
signal events per engine revolution for the purposed
of calibrating the tach.
My FIRST choice for an electronic tachometer
signal source would be the PM alternator if
available. Three reasons:
(1) The AC frequency is dead nuts proportional
to engine rpm and . . .
(2) the 'signal' is sufficiently robust to
also be a POWER source for the tach and . . .
(3) that power source is ALWAYS there if the
engine is running.
Having said that, not every tach can exploit
any PM alternator as a signal/power source.
Do the homework. If the electron gods are
not insulted, you just might have an opportunity
for a reliable and robust tachometer.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch Question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
That switch is available for $30 at Univair
https://www.univair.com/electrical-lighting/view-all/an3023-2-piper-switch/
Any snap action switch will work. The master contactor draws less than an amp.
Be sure to put a diode across the contactor coil to protect the switch from arcing.
The banded end of the diode connects to positive.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499500#499500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch Question |
At 10:33 AM 11/24/2020, you wrote:
>
>My master switch is specified as an AN 3023-2. I have been unable
>to find any documentation on just what that is, other than some type
>of DPST switch. Is there a source for decoding the AN switch specifications?
>
That is a vintage switch dating back to the 40's or earlier.
It's reminiscent of the master switch in a Piper TriPacer
I took dual in wwwaayyy back when. BEEFY switch, no battery
master relay.
They're still available as you can see here . . .
https://tinyurl.com/y57x62bp
What's your application?
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z101B Questions |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Lots of builders measure battery current instead of alternator current.
Just don't measure starter motor current.
Most planes do not have fuses protecting the main power bus because a fuse
creates more of a hazard than than an unprotected bus and feeder. The pilot
can shut off the master battery contactor if necessary.
5. Yes, timing. The brownout booster needs to be powered up before the starter
contactor closes.
The more complicated the electrical system is, the more likely that something will
go wrong.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499502#499502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch Question |
At 03:41 PM 11/24/2020, you wrote:
>At 10:33 AM 11/24/2020, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>My master switch is specified as an AN 3023-2. I have been unable
>>to find any documentation on just what that is, other than some
>>type of DPST switch. Is there a source for decoding the AN switch
>>specifications?
>>
>
> That is a vintage switch dating back to the 40's or earlier.
> It's reminiscent of the master switch in a Piper TriPacer
> I took dual in wwwaayyy back when. BEEFY switch, no battery
> master relay.
>
> They're still available as you can see here . . .
>
>https://tinyurl.com/y57x62bp
>
> What's your application?
>
P.S. I have confirmed that this switch was used on
Univair (ERCO) aircraft as the primary current
carrying device for ship's power. This IS a high
current switch . . . probably rated at 30A or more.
If that's how it's used in your application, suggest
you add a battery master contactor thus allowing
substitution of a friendlier toggle switch.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slickstart Current Draw update |
>
>"Mike, The ATP is a computer test of internal circuitry and output
>energy and tests all the internals, none of these parts should
>deteriorate with age."
>
>Could someone with more insight please advise if I should accept
>this or should I ask them to test it under "real" conditions
>
>Thanks
>
>Mike
Slick has been building these things for decades.
Don't know about their design and test policies
but the goal of an ATP is to confirm performance
to specs. Without seeing their test documentation,
we cannot know if it falls short of being 'real'
but I'd bet it's a rigorous test.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z101B Questions |
At 02:01 PM 11/24/2020, you wrote:
>
>
>Hello All,
>I'm new to the community and trying to come up with an electrical
>system design I'm happy with for SDS EFI. I started with something
>based on Z-14, but with modifications to make it suitable for SDS -
>this could be an entire separate topic. I have since found Z101B
>and I really like it so far!
Welcome aboard my friend!
>Has anyone implemented Z101B yet? I had a few questions about the design:
>1. Has anyone tried to measure battery current instead of alternator current?
been there, done that, nobody does it any more . . . at least
not on single engine aircraft. Battery ammeter readings are
not helpful data in flight. In fact, the only ammeter I recall
being really useful on an SE aircraft was the A36 Bonanza with
prop de-ice. The system only powered one blade at a time
and having an ammeter in series with prop-deice would
offer a gross indication for loss of one heater circuit.
But then, you'd probably know something was out of whack
when prop balance was compromised due to ice accumulation
on one blade.
If I were going to fit an airplane with the single most
valuable indicator for loss of system performance
it would be ACTIVE NOTIFICATION of low volts. This
is something that requires pre-planned actions on
the part of a pilot. Ammeters are sort like fox-tails
on your antenna . . . or spinner hub caps.
> I'm guessing this won't work easily because there are too many fat
> wires to pass through the hall effect sensor.
How would you use those numbers if you had them?
>2. I noticed the aux alternator B-lead is always hot. This could
>cause the battery to drain if one of the alternator diodes fails. I
>don't see a quick fix. Any suggestions?
No fix necessary. Diodes just don't do that any
more and then it would require more than one to
cause a drain which would be mitigated by the b-lead
fuse.
>3. Any reason the functions of "alt bus" and "alt alternator"
>should be tied together? Seems like they can be operated
>independently with separate switches and doing so seems less
>confusing - for me at least.
They share a switch but are not 'tied' together. The switch
serves the same function as battery master . . . 3 position
switch that closes the relay first and alternator next.
>4. I was planning to have the main bus in the cabin so I'll need to
>add an ANL fuse between the battery contactor and main bus. I guess
>this is more of a comment than a question. Along the same lines,
>shouldn't the brownout bus feed through the contactor have an ANL fuse?
No, those are power distribution FAT wires. Those
are never fused in light aircraft. Probability of
a fault that puts a FAT wire at risk is nil. You can
add one if you wish but there's no foundation in
historical risk assessment that supports it.
>5. Any reason to not power the brownout booster from the starter
>side of the start contactor? This would reduce the load being
>switched by the start button. I really don't want those contacts to weld.
It's a function of timing. The brownout booster needs
to be spooled up and ready to take a load BEFORE
the battery is burdened with starter inrush current.
It's just milliseconds but they're important. If
you're worried about the starter switch then
do the load analysis to confirm the switch's
suitability to task.
Band-aids on worries are seldom a good thing . . .
modifications to meet requirements are never
a bad thing.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
| From: | "dj_theis" <djtheis58(at)gmail.com> |
> I have to find another method of picking up the rpm. I already have a reluctor.
Just have to install it. But, a word to the wise. . . don't use the generator
as a tachometer source. This is experimental aviation, and I consider this
experiment to be a success. I learned something, and no metal >was bent in the
process.
I have a couple of thoughts and some questions related to this post.
first the thoughts.
Is it possible the tachometer is wired on the wrong side of the regulator / rectifier?
I have as exhibits, three attached documents.
1) a similar tachometer circuit as shown in the Remaster electrical manual (i.e.
PM alternator with Westach, tachometer)
2) the Revmaster alternator connections as shown in their illustrious manual.
3) the alternator connections as I've redrawn them (after much noodling and consideration).
Recognizing that not all RR for PMA are created under the same zodiac. And, I'm
in the process of verifying the operation of the Revmaster as I've interpreted
and redrawn it.
I can imagine at least one RR design that would shunt the AC coils out when reaching
the setpoint, which would nullify the tach signal. The design of the Revmaster
(series regulator, in my personal venacular) does not shunt the PMA coils
but instead, opens the PM circuit when the battery voltage reaches a set
value (with an SCR that completes the PMA circuit to battery common). If the
tach is wired on the AC side of the RR, (as Revmaster shows it) the voltage signal
will still drive the tachometer when the RR reaches setpoint and opens the
circuit to the battery (as described by Bob, with plenty of extra power to spare).
Alternatively, if the tach is on the DC side of the RR, the signal is likely to
die out, as the RR intermitantly disconnects the PMA from the battery, as it
reaches the target voltage. Also, ( in the case of the Revmaster's dual alternar)
tif the "other" PMA is selected as the "chosen one" to supply power to the
battery and ships devices, the original (now disconnected) alternator will still
be available to run the tach, with the voltage pulses it is happily generating
at basically an "open circuit" voltage condition.
In the version (that I've not seen, but only heard of) where the PMA is short circuited
when reaching voltage setpoint, I can imagine that the tach connected
to the AC side would fail to sense any voltage as the RR reached setpoint. It
would seem that this design (a shunted PMA RR) would be very hard on the RR
as it has to reject the heat of full current and it's nominal voltage drop and
b) damn unnecessary added heat to the PMA as it generates near full short circuit
current across its coils.
Does the original post member have a circuit diagram and alternator we can evaluate?
Dan Theis
--------
Scratch building Sonex #1362
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499506#499506
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/revmaster_2300_rev13_alternator_ckt_190.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/revmaster_manual_alternator_connection_492.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/remaster_manual_tach_connection_377.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch Question |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
My airplane is an Alon Aircoupe that Univair now has the TCSD for. It does not
have a battery master contactor, and the STC available to add one does not include
the Alons due to a change in the battery box and location. I am working
with my A&P/IA on a possible field approval, along with a lithium battery installation.
I was curious about the AN switch and what its characteristics are.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499508#499508
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "manishajay" <harinidhass73(at)gmail.com> |
Nice Information Your first-class knowledge of this great job can become a suitable
foundation for these people. I did some research on the subject and found
that almost everyone will agree with your blog.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499509#499509
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <mikepienaar09(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Slickstart Current Draw update |
Thanks for the help, I will keep you updated
Keep well
Mike
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: November 24, 2020 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Slickstart Current Draw update
"Mike, The ATP is a computer test of internal circuitry and output energy
and tests all the internals, none of these parts should deteriorate with
age."
Could someone with more insight please advise if I should accept this or
should I ask them to test it under "real" conditions
Thanks
Mike
Slick has been building these things for decades.
Don't know about their design and test policies
but the goal of an ATP is to confirm performance
to specs. Without seeing their test documentation,
we cannot know if it falls short of being 'real'
but I'd bet it's a rigorous test.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
I don't have a circuit diagram.=C2-
I used one of the regulators like this:=C2- https://www.amazon.com/Oumurs
-Regulator-Rectifier-1989-1999-74519-88A/dp/B079CJ4DN9/ref=sr_1_18?crid
=3R1Q0AO9RIBJQ&dchild=1&keywords=harley+davidson+regulator&qid=1606
313589&sprefix=harley+davidson+regu%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-18
This is truly a black box device.=C2- There are dozens of sources selling
what looks like the identical item, and I could find exactly zero informat
ion about what is inside any of them.=C2- All the reviews I could find sa
id basically, "It works", and being a Harley part, it seems to be targetted
at people that do not need or care to know more about what is inside. They
all have two wire inputs, and all have one wire output.=C2- I found one
that has a 14.5V set point, which is good for my LiFePO battery that doesn'
t have a BMS other than charge equalization.
I spliced my tach signal wire into one of the leads from the PMA to the reg
ulator.=C2- I had not considered that the regulator might be dumping all
the energy from the PMA to ground.=C2- I assumed it would just switch the
input off completely.=C2- That would leave the generator with some hyste
resis current, but that shouldn't amount to much.=C2- At this point, I'm
of a mind to tear this brand new regulator apart, just to find out what is
in there.=C2- Dang, education is expensive.
il.com> wrote:
> I have to find another method of picking up the rpm. I already have a rel
uctor. Just have to install it. But, a word to the wise. . . don't use the
generator as a tachometer source. This is experimental aviation, and I cons
ider this experiment to be a success. I learned something, and no metal >wa
s bent in the process.
I have a couple of thoughts and some questions related to this post.
first the thoughts.=C2-
Is it possible the tachometer is wired on the wrong side of the regulator /
rectifier?
I have as exhibits, three attached documents.=C2-
1) a similar tachometer circuit as shown in the Remaster electrical manual
(i.e. PM alternator with Westach, tachometer)
2) the Revmaster alternator connections as shown in their illustrious manua
l.
3) the alternator connections as I've redrawn them (after much noodling and
consideration).=C2-
Recognizing that not all RR for PMA are created under the same zodiac.=C2
- And, I'm in the process of verifying the operation of the Revmaster as
I've interpreted and redrawn it.
I can imagine at least one RR design that would shunt the AC coils out when
reaching the setpoint, which would nullify the tach signal.=C2- The desi
gn of the Revmaster (series regulator, in my personal venacular) does not s
hunt the PMA coils but instead,=C2- opens the PM circuit when the battery
voltage reaches a set value (with an SCR that completes the PMA circuit to
battery common).=C2- If the tach is wired on the AC side of the RR, (as
Revmaster shows it) the voltage signal will still drive the tachometer when
the RR reaches setpoint and opens the circuit to the battery (as described
by Bob, with plenty of extra power to spare).
Alternatively, if the tach is on the DC side of the RR, the signal is likel
y to die out, as the RR intermitantly disconnects the PMA from the battery,
as it reaches the target voltage.=C2- Also, ( in the case of the Revmast
er's dual alternar) tif the "other" PMA is selected as the "chosen one" to
supply power to the battery and ships devices, the original (now disconnect
ed) alternator will still be available to run the tach, with the voltage pu
lses it is happily generating at basically an "open circuit" voltage condit
ion.=C2-
In the version (that I've not seen, but only heard of) where the PMA is sho
rt circuited when reaching voltage setpoint, I can imagine that the tach co
nnected to the AC side would fail to sense any voltage as the RR reached se
tpoint.=C2- It would seem that this design (a shunted PMA RR) would be ve
ry hard on the RR as it has to reject the heat of full current and it's nom
inal voltage drop and b) damn unnecessary added heat to the PMA as it gener
ates near full short circuit current across its coils.
Does the original post member have a circuit diagram and alternator we can
evaluate?
Dan Theis
--------
Scratch building Sonex #1362
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499506#499506
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/revmaster_2300_rev13_alternator_ckt_190.
pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/revmaster_manual_alternator_connection_4
92.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/remaster_manual_tach_connection_377.pdf
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch Question |
At 09:47 PM 11/24/2020, you wrote:
>
>My airplane is an Alon Aircoupe that Univair now has the TCSD
>for. It does not have a battery master contactor, and the STC
>available to add one does not include the Alons due to a change in
>the battery box and location. I am working with my A&P/IA on a
>possible field approval, along with a lithium battery
>installation. I was curious about the AN switch and what its
>characteristics are.
I used to have some Cuttler-Hammer data from that
era but I'm unable to access it. But we can be
sure that this switch is not off your grandpa's
yard tractor. It's a beefy device used on many
small aircraft of the era as THE battery master.
Getting a field approval for battery and contactor
upgrade shouldn't be a big deal. It's a rudimentary
but significant performance upgrade.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switch Question |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
>
>
> Getting a field approval for battery and contactor
> upgrade shouldn't be a big deal. It's a rudimentary
> but significant performance upgrade.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
Totally agree, it's just a matter of finding someone at the local FSDO that has
the same point of view. John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499529#499529
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "EfraimOtero" <efraim.otero(at)gmail.com> |
cluros(at)gmail.com wrote:
> My advice would be to have a mechanic troubleshoot.
>
> In the meantime, is this a new installation that has never run or is this a new
problem?
>
> It is an old setup. With a new/charged battery it fired easily. I have to point
out that I live in the Andes mountains at 8,535 feet field elevation!
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 9:37 AM Efraim Otero wrote:
>
>
> > Dear All:I wanted to see if I could get inputs to understand an issue I am
having with my Bendix magnetos.
> > My biplane, an O 200 powered Fisher Celebrity has what I call a partial Electric
system. One 12 V 18 Ah battery that connects directlyto a skytec starter.
This starter has a switch that in turn leads to a starter pushbutton.
> > It also has a key switch for the magnetos: Off, Left, right, both.
> > I tried to start the engine and it motors while pushing the starter pushbutton,
with the starter switch on and magnetos on both. However the engine does
not catch.
> > Also, if I turn the mags off, the engine also motors but obviously does not
ignite.
> > What might be going on?
> > -Battery issues? not enough charge/power?
> > -Mag issues? not getting any spark (Should the engine be turning at some specific
revs on cranking for it to generate a spark?
> > -Ignition harness?
> > -Spark plugs?
> > Any suggestions as to how to troubleshoot?
> > I am getting fuel to the engine as I can smell it. It has no fuel pump, justgravit
feed. Starter motors slowly, although it does not "seem un normal" (purely
perception of mine!)
> >
> >
> > Please advise,
> > Efraim
> >
> >
>
--------
EfraimOtero
Fisher Celebrity EX N500BC
O200 COntinental
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499541#499541
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "EfraimOtero" <efraim.otero(at)gmail.com> |
Hello everyone! Many thanks for the input. I will give these tests a shot. For
now, I have ordered a new battery to have enough cranking power. I hope this is
the case.
I apologize for answering so late but I forgot my old username and had to unsubscribe
and re subscribe.
You can now reach me at username EfraimOtero.
When I get my new earthX battery I will crank and let you know my findings.
Ordered from Aircraft Spruce and should get it soon down here!
Cheers
E
--------
EfraimOtero
Fisher Celebrity EX N500BC
O200 COntinental
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499542#499542
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | D-Sub carrying current |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Group Two D-Sub questions: 1) Is it OK to use only 1 D-Sub machined and gold
plated pin to carry current to my 5 amp circuit breaker used to control overvoltage
on my B&C LRD regulator (crowbar)? 2) I have another circuit that will
carry up to 8 amps. I want to split the load between two D-Sub pins. I remember
reading about using a resistor on both pins so the difference in resistance
of the two pins would be much closer. Question) what value resistor and how many
watt capacity? Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499546#499546
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dark and stormy night during CAVU |
>
>I can imagine at least one RR design that would shunt the AC coils
>out when reaching the setpoint, which would nullify the tach signal.
For that situation, I suspect the PM alternator
output currents never go to zero. One could get
a righteous representation of AC current frequency
by passing one lead of the alternator coil through
a hall sensor. AMPLOC has a line of candidates
for this task.
https://tinyurl.com/yxfeta3h
> The design of the Revmaster (series regulator, in my personal
> venacular) does not shunt the PMA coils but instead, opens the PM
> circuit when the battery voltage reaches a set value (with an SCR
> that completes the PMA circuit to battery common). If the tach is
> wired on the AC side of the RR, (as Revmaster shows it) the voltage
> signal will still drive the tachometer when the RR reaches setpoint
> and opens the circuit to the battery (as described by Bob, with
> plenty of extra power to spare).
agreed
>Alternatively, if the tach is on the DC side of the RR, the signal
>is likely to die out, as the RR intermitantly disconnects the PMA
>from the battery,
Validity of the alternator's AC information
is not preserved across the RR. Valid tach data
will be available only at the AC output leads
from the alternator.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch Question |
>
>Totally agree, it's just a matter of finding someone at the local
>FSDO that has the same point of view. John
Are there any Type Clubs for your airplane?
It might be possible to got a copy of an
already approved 337 for doing this job.
Using that as foundation for your new
endeavor will go a long way toward assuaging
timidity on the part of individuals with
little or no familiarity with vintage aircraft.
Use the battery contactor installation on any later
version of that aircraft to create a narrative/
photo essay on a proposed modification to your
airplane.
Lacking that, find an STC for ANY such modification
to a vintage aircraft. Use it as a pattern to
create your own documentation.
Don't ASK 'em how to do it, TELL them how you're
going to do it on a foundation of prior
art.
When and if you're successful, preserve copies
of your approved paperwork and share with interested
owners. You can become a repository for a
knowledge-nugget of tribal knowledge.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: D-Sub carrying current |
At 09:33 AM 11/27/2020, you wrote:
>
>Hi Group Two D-Sub questions: 1) Is it OK to use only 1 D-Sub
>machined and gold plated pin to carry current to my 5 amp circuit
>breaker used to control overvoltage on my B&C LRD regulator (crowbar)?
Yes
> 2) I have another circuit that will carry up to 8 amps. I want to
> split the load between two D-Sub pins. I remember reading about
> using a resistor on both pins so the difference in resistance of
> the two pins would be much closer. Question) what value resistor
> and how many watt capacity? Thx. Ron P.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Paralleled_DSub_Pins.pdf
This is a paralleling technique proposed and
approved on the GQM163 SSST target and
later adopted in power distribution components
of the B4000 bizjet.
There are variations on this theme which demand a
few more details on your proposed application.
What are the connections to pins on both
sides of the interface? Are we talking about
a 8A continuous load?
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: D-Sub carrying current |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Bob Thx. for reply. 8 amp continuous load perhaps 10 minutes per flight which
is for cooling fans FWF about 30" forward of connector, aft of connector is
a switch about 10" away but could easily use 12" of #22 wire. If a resistor were
to be used for two wires and 4 amps each, would it need to be rated for 58
watts? I like your 12" of #22 wire solution! Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499550#499550
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: D-Sub carrying current |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Bob Forget second half of my question, I see you had written mOhms, not ohms.
I missed the m. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499551#499551
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z101B Questions |
| From: | "Patrick Nelson" <panelsonms(at)hotmail.com> |
Thank you for the replies!
> How would you use those numbers if you had them?
It terms of battery current, that's what I'm used to seeing in other planes and
it can be used to detect an alternator failure. However, I see your point of
using the voltmeter to detect an alternator failure instead and alternator current
gives a more useful indication of total electrical load.
>
> No fix necessary. Diodes just don't do that any
> more and then it would require more than one to
> cause a drain which would be mitigated by the b-lead
> fuse.
>
I looked more at the BC410-H alternator I'm planning to use for the aux alternator
and I think you're right that it won't be a problem. There should be no internal
connection between the B and F terminals, in theory.
I saw an example in a car where an alternator diode being shorted caused the charging
system light on the dashboard to stay lit - even with the car completely
shut off.
>
> They share a switch but are not 'tied' together. The switch
> serves the same function as battery master . . . 3 position
> switch that closes the relay first and alternator next.
>
Please excuse my still learning electrical systems, but this doesn't make sense
to me. The aux alternator provides power to the battery side of the main contactor.
There's not a second battery and "aux master" like you'd have with a
Z-14 setup. One function of this switch is to turn on the aux alternator.
The other feature of this switch is to provide an alternate power source to the
brownout bus. This could be used as a "clearance delivery" feature or like the
"E-bus Alternate Feed" as exists on some of the other schematics (like Z-10).
I'm still not understanding why these share a switch.
Why would you want the aux alternator field powered to use the "clearance delivery"
function?
> 5. Yes, timing.
Thank you both for answering the question about the power source for the brownout
booster. That completely makes sense and I'm glad I asked :-)
Thanks again for the info!
-Patrick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499556#499556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z101B Questions |
>Please excuse my still learning electrical systems, but this doesn't
>make sense to me. The aux alternator provides power to the battery
>side of the main contactor. There's not a second battery and "aux
>master" like you'd have with a Z-14 setup. One function of this
>switch is to turn on the aux alternator.
It's a two-stage operation that brings the aux alternator
on line AFTER closing the auxillary feed relay
between the battery and AUX bus.
>The other feature of this switch is to provide an alternate power
>source to the brownout bus. This could be used as a "clearance
>delivery" feature or like the "E-bus Alternate Feed" as exists on
>some of the other schematics (like Z-10). I'm still not
>understanding why these share a switch.
>
>Why would you want the aux alternator field powered to use the
>"clearance delivery" function?
It doesn't. Raise the switch one notch and you've
got the aux bus hot without powering the aux alternator
field. See chapter in the 'Connection on special switch
functions.
> > 5. Yes, timing.
>
>Thank you both for answering the question about the power source for
>the brownout booster. That completely makes sense and I'm glad I asked :-)
>
>Thanks again for the info!
>-Patrick
You are welcome
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low cost Utility VOM |
| From: | "dj_theis" <djtheis58(at)gmail.com> |
I recall (seemed like less than a year ago) Bob had mentioned a digital VOM from
Ebay that he thought was particularly (surprisingly) accurate and reliable.
I cannot seem to find the archive of that post but I know at the time I thought,
" I should buy one for when I need it." I did not follow my advice.
Well, I'm moving my project to the airport and I need to duplicate some of my tools.
I'm not inlclined to buy another Fluke without first looking into one of
the capable off brands alternatives.
Any suggestions on purchases that are reliable over the longer term? (I've heard
nothing necessarily good about the HF version wrt reliability).
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Dan Theis
--------
Scratch building Sonex #1362
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499564#499564
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Replacement of AN3022-2 switch |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
I would like to replace the alternator switch on my Pitts. The part number listed
on the part catalog is AN3022-2. This part is not shown as currently available
from the online aviation suppliers. What would be a proper replacement
part? I am looking for something that does not require modifying the panel and
the terminations of the wires that connect into the switch.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499568#499568
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Replacement of AN3022-2 switch |
| From: | Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Drum" <dgrinalds(at)gmail.com> |
Hi -
I have pri and stby alternators & have 2 ammeter shunts feeding efis
My ANL fuses located as close as practical to starter contractor. Should the shunts
be collocated with ANLs but closer to alts or as close as possible to alternators?
Other quick question is best source and type of welding cable suitable for RV8
in various locations fore and aft of firewall.
Thanks in advance!
Warm regards,
Drum
--------
Drum
RV8 - Working on Fuselage/Canopy
Southport, CT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499572#499572
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Shunt |
On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 1:58 PM Drum wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> I have pri and stby alternators & have 2 ammeter shunts feeding efis
> My ANL fuses located as close as practical to starter contractor. Should
> the shunts be collocated with ANLs but closer to alts or as close as
> possible to alternators?
>
> Other quick question is best source and type of welding cable suitable for
> RV8 in various locations fore and aft of firewall.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Drum
>
> --------
> Drum
> RV8 - Working on Fuselage/Canopy
> Southport, CT
Current is the same everywhere in the circuit, so mount them where it's
convenient and secure.
I've bought welding cable through ebay, but if you have a welding supply
house near you and want to 'buy local', they should have what you need.
Amazon has it, as well. Any 'real' welding cable should have very tough and
high temp insulation, and should have very fine strand, high strand-count
wire.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Shunt |
Typically all those "hi-current" gizmos are co-located.=C2- Don't worry
about being close to the alternator(s).
-Jeff
m> wrote:
Hi -=C2-
I have pri and stby alternators & have 2 ammeter shunts feeding efis
My ANL fuses located as close as practical to starter contractor.=C2- Sho
uld the shunts be collocated with ANLs but closer to alts or as close as po
ssible to alternators?
Other quick question is best source and type of welding cable suitable for
RV8 in various locations fore and aft of firewall.
Thanks in advance!
Warm regards,
Drum
--------
Drum
RV8 - Working on Fuselage/Canopy
Southport, CT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499572#499572
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Replacement of AN3022-2 switch |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
I have seen the switches on e-bay. My preference, however, would
be to go for a modern equivalent switch.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499575#499575
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Shunt |
| From: | "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> |
Drum wrote:
> ... best source and type of welding cable suitable for RV8 in various locations
fore and aft of firewall.
I bought welding cable from zoro.com; you can search for "westward welding cable"
there. Neoprene insulated, high strand count, meets SAE J1127 "Low Voltage
Battery Cable" spec. In the world of welding cable, different insulation materials
are available, I chose Neoprene because that's what bandc.com sells.
https://www.zoro.com/search?q=westward%20welding%20cable
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499577#499577
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Running Alternator and Generator wires |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Group I have a Rotax 914 with internal generator controlled by a B&C AVC1 regulator
and a B&C SD20S alternator controlled by a B&C LR3D regulator. Question:
The SD20S has two alternator field wires #20 each and an output #8 B+. Can
I tie them together for about 2 feet? I happen to have the two #20 wires twisted
to keep them together. If the answer is yes to paralleling, then another question:
Can I parallel the AC output of the internal generator for about 10"with
my two #20 and one #8 wires? The internal generator AC output is two #12 wires
(yellow) in a shield grounded at engine side. Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499594#499594
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Running Alternator and Generator wires |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
If I understand correctly, you do not want to connect power wires together,
you just want to locate them in close proximity to each other. Yes you can.
Audio wires, on the other hand, are more susceptible to interference.
And strobe wires can cause interference. Use twisted pairs for those.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499597#499597
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FionaSheyk" <zkfsewlyerad(at)dropmail.me> |
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499606#499606
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low cost Utility VOM |
At 04:54 PM 11/30/2020, you wrote:
>
>I recall (seemed like less than a year ago) Bob had mentioned a
>digital VOM from Ebay that he thought was particularly
>(surprisingly) accurate and reliable.
>
>I cannot seem to find the archive of that post but I know at the
>time I thought, " I should buy one for when I need it." I did not
>follow my advice.
>
>Well, I'm moving my project to the airport and I need to duplicate
>some of my tools. I'm not inlclined to buy another Fluke without
>first looking into one of the capable off brands alternatives.
>
>Any suggestions on purchases that are reliable over the longer term?
>(I've heard nothing necessarily good about the HF version wrt reliability).
>
>Thanks in advance for any comments.
>
>Dan Theis
You almost cannot go 'wrong' . . . the technology
for rudimentary measurements is an order of magnitude
better than our treasured legacy instruments and at
1/4 the price.
Close your eyes and throw a dart.
https://tinyurl.com/y2n5pfc6
https://tinyurl.com/yyrgmr2p
https://tinyurl.com/yxj3khuv
I would avoid instruments with lots
of 'cool' features like frequency,
capacitance and inductance measurements.
I have those capabilities on my workbench
and even there, those features are seldom
exercised. Similarly, you're not going to
need to measure transistor quality.
I prefer elastomeric push buttons as opposed
to rotary switches. These are relatively
'sealed' against intrusions. But if you go
for a rotary switch, pick on with a minimum
of range selections. More selections only
increased mechanical complexity/environmental
vulnerability.
Clip off the black probe and replace with insulated
alligator clip. Having black 'clip grounded' while probing
the system is much handier.
Check out the Holey Socks approach to protecting
the instrument while rattling around with the tools.
https://tinyurl.com/y5x2zugh
This soft case wads up to fit in your pocket
while the instrument is in use.
The very best part of this experiment is what
do you have to loose? If your selection proves
unworthy of a place of honor in your toolbox,
pitch the thing and try something else. It's
a cheap experiment.
I've purchased dozens of this genre' of
instrument over the years . . . the last one
I pitched was a radio shack device that I
purchased about 1975 for what I think was
about $45.00. Poor thing just gave up
the ghost. Gave it a respectful burial about
15 years ago. I don't think I've spent that
much money again since.
Sorry to have been ignoring you folks for the past
4 or 5 weeks. Dr. Dee and I are climbing out of
our bouts with the BigC. Dr. Dee is back at her
desk and I'm in what promises to be a long,
slow recovery of stamina. Not hurting, appetite
returning. O2 sats pretty good . . . but I'd
loose a sack race with a class of kindergartners. Been
off the EMS crew for couple months. Sure miss
those guys. Things are a bit better every day.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low cost Utility VOM |
God speed with the recovery our revered mentor!
On Mon, 07 Dec 2020, 04:51 Robert L. Nuckolls, III, <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 04:54 PM 11/30/2020, you wrote:
>
>
> I recall (seemed like less than a year ago) Bob had mentioned a digital
> VOM from Ebay that he thought was particularly (surprisingly) accurate and
> reliable.
>
> I cannot seem to find the archive of that post but I know at the time I
> thought, " I should buy one for when I need it." I did not follow my
> advice.
>
> Well, I'm moving my project to the airport and I need to duplicate some of
> my tools. I'm not inlclined to buy another Fluke without first looking
> into one of the capable off brands alternatives.
>
> Any suggestions on purchases that are reliable over the longer term? (I've
> heard nothing necessarily good about the HF version wrt reliability).
>
> Thanks in advance for any comments.
>
> Dan Theis
>
>
> You almost cannot go 'wrong' . . . the technology
> for rudimentary measurements is an order of magnitude
> better than our treasured legacy instruments and at
> 1/4 the price.
>
>
> Close your eyes and throw a dart.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y2n5pfc6
>
> https://tinyurl.com/yyrgmr2p
>
> https://tinyurl.com/yxj3khuv
>
>
> I would avoid instruments with lots
> of 'cool' features like frequency,
> capacitance and inductance measurements.
> I have those capabilities on my workbench
> and even there, those features are seldom
> exercised. Similarly, you're not going to
> need to measure transistor quality.
>
> I prefer elastomeric push buttons as opposed
> to rotary switches. These are relatively
> 'sealed' against intrusions. But if you go
> for a rotary switch, pick on with a minimum
> of range selections. More selections only
> increased mechanical complexity/environmental
> vulnerability.
>
> Clip off the black probe and replace with insulated
> alligator clip. Having black 'clip grounded' while probing
> the system is much handier.
>
> Check out the Holey Socks approach to protecting
> the instrument while rattling around with the tools.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y5x2zugh
>
> This soft case wads up to fit in your pocket
> while the instrument is in use.
>
> The very best part of this experiment is what
> do you have to loose? If your selection proves
> unworthy of a place of honor in your toolbox,
> pitch the thing and try something else. It's
> a cheap experiment.
>
> I've purchased dozens of this genre' of
> instrument over the years . . . the last one
> I pitched was a radio shack device that I
> purchased about 1975 for what I think was
> about $45.00. Poor thing just gave up
> the ghost. Gave it a respectful burial about
> 15 years ago. I don't think I've spent that
> much money again since.
>
> Sorry to have been ignoring you folks for the past
> 4 or 5 weeks. Dr. Dee and I are climbing out of
> our bouts with the BigC. Dr. Dee is back at her
> desk and I'm in what promises to be a long,
> slow recovery of stamina. Not hurting, appetite
> returning. O2 sats pretty good . . . but I'd
> loose a sack race with a class of kindergartners. Been
> off the EMS crew for couple months. Sure miss
> those guys. Things are a bit better every day.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low cost Utility VOM |
>
> I would avoid instruments with lots
> of 'cool' features like frequency,
> capacitance and inductance measurements.
> I have those capabilities on my workbench
> and even there, those features are seldom
> exercised. Similarly, you're not going to
> need to measure transistor quality.
It's been awhile since I last sifted
the offerings for utility grade instruments.
I see it's pretty difficult to 'avoid'
some of the extras.
Let's see if I can simplify a recommendation:
https://tinyurl.com/yyc9x2n9
Here's another offering that ships from the
US.
https://tinyurl.com/yy6aswvc
I bought a couple of similar offerings
about a year ago and added them to the
toyboxes in a couple of our
rural fire stations. You can pretty
much ignore these 'whistle' selections
except, of course, for good 'ol Ohms.
Emacs!
This instrument does include
thermocouple based temperature measurement
which may be handy.
If anyone picks one up and finds it
falls short of expectations . . .
I'll buy it from you.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low cost Utility VOM |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/7/2020 12:02 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>> I would avoid instruments with lots
>> of 'cool' features like frequency,
>> capacitance and inductance measurements.
>> I have those capabilities on my workbench
>> and even there, those features are seldom
>> exercised. Similarly, you're not going to
>> need to measure transistor quality.
>
> It's been awhile since I last sifted
> the offerings for utility grade instruments.
> I see it's pretty difficult to 'avoid'
> some of the extras.
>
> Let's see if I can simplify a recommendation:
>
> https://tinyurl.com/yyc9x2n9
>
> Here's another offering that ships from the
> US.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/yy6aswvc
>
> I bought a couple of similar offerings
> about a year ago and added them to the
> toyboxes in a couple of our
> rural fire stations. You can pretty
> much ignore these 'whistle' selections
> except, of course, for good 'ol Ohms.
>
>
> Emacs!
>
> This instrument does include
> thermocouple based temperature measurement
> which may be handy.
>
> If anyone picks one up and finds it
> falls short of expectations . . .
> I'll buy it from you.
>
> Bob . . .
>
To give you young whippersnappers some perspective, my 1st portable True
RMS digital meter was far cheaper than typical lab grade instruments of
the day, had an LED display (about 30 minutes on the battery), was
VOM-only, and cost $200. In 1975 dollars. So....
--
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Cox <flyboyron(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/06/20 |
-"Sorry to have been ignoring you folks for the past - 4 or 5 weeks. Dr.
Dee and I are climbing out of - our bouts with the BigC. Dr. Dee is back at
her - desk and I'm in what promises to be a long, - slow recovery of
stamina. Not hurting, appetite - returning. O2 sats pretty good . . . but
I'd - loose a sack race with a class of kindergartners. Been - off the EMS
crew for couple months. Sure miss - those guys. Things are a bit better
every day."
Bob, I'm sure everyone else joins me in wishing both you and Dr. Dee a
speedy, complete, and trouble-free recovery.
Best of luck,
Ron
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves on the ruin of this
Country." - Sam Adams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2 <rd2(at)dejazzd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/06/20 |
Bob, wishing you and Dr.Dee a speedy and complete recovery!
Rumen
----- Original Message -----
From: Ronald Cox <flyboyron(at)gmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/06/20
-"Sorry to have been ignoring you folks for the past
- 4 or 5 weeks. Dr. Dee and I are climbing out of
- our bouts with the BigC. Dr. Dee is back at her
- desk and I'm in what promises to be a long,
- slow recovery of stamina. Not hurting, appetite
- returning. O2 sats pretty good . . . but I'd
- loose a sack race with a class of kindergartners. Been
- off the EMS crew for couple months. Sure miss
- those guys. Things are a bit better every day."
Bob, I'm sure everyone else joins me in wishing both you and Dr. Dee a speedy,
complete, and trouble-free recovery.
Best of luck,Ron
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves on the ruin of this Country."
- Sam Adams
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: shore power combined with LiFePO battery |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
>
> This device is not a 'ground power' source of energy.
> Ken needs a current limited, voltage regulated
> laboratory or bench supply that emulates his alternator/
> battery system.
>
> Here's a couple of examples:
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y2nb5gyv
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y4taw7rc (https://tinyurl.com/y4taw7rc)
>
> https://tinyurl.com/yytdzdvg (https://tinyurl.com/yytdzdvg)
>
> These are suited for powering up the bus
> with the ship's battery and alternator
> OFF line.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
Resurecting a thread, would something like this be suitable for powering the electronics
in the hangar with the other electrical equipment "off line"?
https://tinyurl.com/y5jtl725
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499627#499627
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Schroeder <n233ee(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/06/20 |
Be Strong. We are all pulling for you two! Earl
> On Dec 7, 2020, at 1:43 PM, rd2 wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Bob, wishing you and Dr.Dee a speedy and complete recovery!
> Rumen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ronald Cox <flyboyron(at)gmail.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/06/2
0
>
> -"Sorry to have been ignoring you folks for the past
> - 4 or 5 weeks. Dr. Dee and I are climbing out of
> - our bouts with the BigC. Dr. Dee is back at her
> - desk and I'm in what promises to be a long,
> - slow recovery of stamina. Not hurting, appetite
> - returning. O2 sats pretty good . . . but I'd
> - loose a sack race with a class of kindergartners. Been
> - off the EMS crew for couple months. Sure miss
> - those guys. Things are a bit better every day."
>
> Bob, I'm sure everyone else joins me in wishing both you and Dr. Dee a spe
edy, complete, and trouble-free recovery.
>
> Best of luck,
> Ron
>
> "Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves on the ruin of this C
ountry." - Sam Adams
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: shore power combined with LiFePO battery |
>
>Resurecting a thread, would something like this be suitable for
>powering the electronics in the hangar with the other electrical
>equipment "off line"?
>https://tinyurl.com/y5jtl725
>John
Yeah . . . sort of. Waayy back when I had
a good source for the line of Samlex fixed
voltage, overload protected "bricks",
I think I was able to offer a 14v switchmode
power supply good for 20A for under $100 . . .
but that's putting a stretch on the gray matter.
How about spending a few more $ and getting
a piece of test equipment. Here's fully
instrumented, adjustable supply good for
a lot more snort.
https://tinyurl.com/y2q2v37h
It's on sale for the next week or so. I
have several supplies of this genre' that
have been helpful in recent battery performance
studies.
Best yet, this supply gives you a real-time
suite of values on the load. You can set
it for 14.5v, max current and clip it in
place of the ship's battery. Everything
up to and including 10A of load is characterized.
You can MEASURED real time operating loads
of the ship's electro-whizzies.
After the project it finished, it becomes
valuable bench test tool. I've got more
power supplies than any other class of
tool. They range from a 30V 0.25A current
limited HP supply that came off my bench at Numec
in 1964.
Big daddy is a 40V/40A HP 'boat anchor' I got for cheap
off eBay probably 30 years ago . . . still
works great. I'm getting ready to move it
from my electronics bench in the house
out to the mess-making shop where I have
a 240v feeder that will allow me to access
the supply's full capabilities.
The short answer is: For a few dollars more
you can acquire a test tool with a lot more
present and future value than the "brick".
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 07:46 PM 12/7/2020, you wrote:
>Be Strong. We are all pulling for you two! Earl
thanks guys . . . things are getting
better every day. Going to hang some
xmas lights tomorrow!
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: shore power combined with LiFePO battery |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/8/2020 4:06 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>> Resurecting a thread, would something like this be suitable for
>> powering the electronics in the hangar with the other electrical
>> equipment "off line"?
>> https://tinyurl.com/y5jtl725
>> John
>
>
> Yeah . . . sort of. Waayy back when I had
> a good source for the line of Samlex fixed
> voltage, overload protected "bricks",
> I think I was able to offer a 14v switchmode
> power supply good for 20A for under $100 . . .
> but that's putting a stretch on the gray matter.
>
> How about spending a few more $ and getting
> a piece of test equipment. Here's fully
> instrumented, adjustable supply good for
> a lot more snort.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y2q2v37h
>
> It's on sale for the next week or so. I
> have several supplies of this genre' that
> have been helpful in recent battery performance
> studies.
>
> Best yet, this supply gives you a real-time
> suite of values on the load. You can set
> it for 14.5v, max current and clip it in
> place of the ship's battery. Everything
> up to and including 10A of load is characterized.
> You can MEASURED real time operating loads
> of the ship's electro-whizzies.
>
> After the project it finished, it becomes
> valuable bench test tool. I've got more
> power supplies than any other class of
> tool. They range from a 30V 0.25A current
> limited HP supply that came off my bench at Numec
> in 1964.
>
> Big daddy is a 40V/40A HP 'boat anchor' I got for cheap
> off eBay probably 30 years ago . . . still
> works great. I'm getting ready to move it
> from my electronics bench in the house
> out to the mess-making shop where I have
> a 240v feeder that will allow me to access
> the supply's full capabilities.
>
> The short answer is: For a few dollars more
> you can acquire a test tool with a lot more
> present and future value than the "brick".
>
> Bob . . .
>
I bought this one:
https://smile.amazon.com/RoMech-30V-Power-Supply-Variable/dp/B081SKNHTV/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=5h-S.3NU5Fhc1ep7Q0UrxQ&hsa_cr_id=8827375660301&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0
with different branding (probably from ebay) a couple of years ago, and
have been happy with it. You can probably find it for closer to $55 if
you search. Voltage is a direct display; amps displays actual current
but can be limited with the knobs. I just marked knob positions to get
myself in the ballpark when I want to limit current.
Charlie
--
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | FTA550 Pro Transceiver for sale |
I have a new in the box FTA550 transceiver
that's surplus to my needs. Would like to
get $150 for it postage paid to US address.
See https://tinyurl.com/yy7sqe93
This is the AA battery version.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Cazier/BHHS CA Properties <dcazier_prusd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FTA550 Pro Transceiver for sale |
Bob,
I am interested in buying your transceiver, if it is still available.
Thanks
Dan Cazier=C2-
I wrote:
I have a new in the box FTA550 transceiver
that's surplus to my needs. Would like to
get $150 for it postage paid to US address.
Seehttps://tinyurl.com/yy7sqe93
This is the AA battery version.
=C2- Bob . . .
=C2- Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If blackboxes
=C2- survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
=C2- out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FTA550 Pro Transceiver SOLD |
At 04:41 PM 12/13/2020, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I am interested in buying your transceiver, if it is still available.
I've had some offers but you are the
first to offer the asking price. Thank you.
I'll invoice you by PayPal . . .
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dual screen fail post/thread wanted |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
Im looking for a post/thread about a dark and stormy night story concerning a GRT
dual screen failure in IFR in a Velocity flying in light snow. I think I read
about it on this forum sometime in the past couple of years. Possibly posted
by one Bill Hunter? I cant find the post after searching. Can anyone here help
me retrieve this story?
Thanks,
Eric S.
South Haven, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499676#499676
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual screen fail post/thread wanted |
At 02:54 PM 12/15/2020, you wrote:
>
>I=99m looking for a post/thread about a dark and
>stormy night story concerning a GRT dual screen
>failure in IFR in a Velocity flying in light
>snow. I think I read about it on this forum
>sometime in the past couple of years. Possibly
>posted by one Bill Hunter? I can=99t find the
>post after searching. Can anyone here help me retrieve this story?
>
>Thanks,
>Eric S.
>South Haven, MI
I don't think that was discussed her on the List
but if you do find it, I'd very much like to get
a link or hard copy!
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual screen fail post/thread wanted |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
A Google search could not find the incident that you are looking for,
but here is another one that luckily ended well.
https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/systems/you-just-lost-your-only-attitude-indicator-in-imc-now-what/
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499678#499678
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual screen fail post/thread wanted |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> At 02:54 PM 12/15/2020, you wrote:
>
> >
> > Im looking for a post/thread about a dark and stormy night story concerning
a GRT dual screen failure in IFR in a Velocity flying in light snow. I think
I read about it on this forum sometime in the past couple of years. Possibly
posted by one Bill Hunter? I cant find the post after searching. Can anyone here
help me retrieve this story?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eric S.
> > South Haven, MI
>
> I don't think that was discussed her on the List
> but if you do find it, I'd very much like to get
> a link or hard copy!
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
I found the story and would send you a copy but cant see your entire email address.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499680#499680
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual screen fail post/thread wanted |
>
>I found the story and would send you a copy but
>can=99t see your entire email address.
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent or Jackie Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual screen fail post/thread wanted |
Bill Hunter posts on the Vans, HomebuiltAircraft and vaious lists using the handles
Vans101, Homebuilt101 or similar. He has a velocity.
-Kent
> On Dec 16, 2020, at 10:09 AM, eschlanser wrote:
>
>
>
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
>> At 02:54 PM 12/15/2020, you wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Im looking for a post/thread about a dark and stormy night story concerning
a GRT dual screen failure in IFR in a Velocity flying in light snow. I think
I read about it on this forum sometime in the past couple of years. Possibly posted
by one Bill Hunter? I cant find the post after searching. Can anyone here
help me retrieve this story?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Eric S.
>>> South Haven, MI
>>
>> I don't think that was discussed her on the List
>> but if you do find it, I'd very much like to get
>> a link or hard copy!
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>
>
> I found the story and would send you a copy but cant see your entire email address.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499680#499680
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual screen fail post/thread wanted |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
Bill Hunter posts on the Vans, HomebuiltAircraft and vaious lists using the handles
Vans101, Homebuilt101 or similar. He has a velocity.
-Kent
Thanks anyway for the tip but the co-author is Bill Batten, not Bill Hunter.
I sent the article to Bob. He can post it if he desires.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499683#499683
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <argoldman(at)aol.com> |
Greetings all,=C2-Anybody know if an Arduino will create interference wit
h the aircraft radios, including GPS.=C2-Same question with regulators. W
ill a switching regulator create noise that we can't use or is it best to u
se a linear regulator with it's attendant heat problems. 12V to 5 V.=C2-T
his is a little above my pay grade.=C2-Hope everybody is staying well now
=C2-Thanks.=C2-Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 07:17 PM 12/16/2020, you wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>Anybody know if an Arduino will create interference with the
>aircraft radios, including GPS.
unlikely but easy to test in VMC
flight. The only predictive activity
you can pursue is to take it to an
EMC lab and run the full suite of
radiated compatibility tests. You
probably wont find any violations . . .
and even if there are some, the
probability of posing a risk is
low. The last EMC lab time I rented
was about 20 years ago and it was
over $750/hr!
>
>Same question with regulators. Will a switching regulator create
>noise that we can't use or is it best to use a linear regulator with
>it's attendant heat problems. 12V to 5 V.
>
I take it you're not talking about an
alternator regulator. What energy class
are we talking about? Mounted on an
ECB to stroke the Arduino parts?
I wouldn't worry about it.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A RICHARD GOLDMAN <argoldman(at)aol.com> |
Thanks Bob,
I am considering using RC servos to regulate heating airflow from a fan heat
exchanger (liquid cooled) to enable me to electrically control 3 tubes
=94front seat, rear seats and defrost. The servos need pulse modulated... a g
ood application for the Arduino. The servos and Arduino need power at aroun
d 5V thus the necessity for regulator.
Maybe these kind of things have stretched my build time to 16 years and stil
l counting=F0=9F=A4-
Rich
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 16, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroele
ctric.com> wrote:
>
> At 07:17 PM 12/16/2020, you wrote:
>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> Anybody know if an Arduino will create interference with the aircraft rad
ios, including GPS.
>
> unlikely but easy to test in VMC
> flight. The only predictive activity
> you can pursue is to take it to an
> EMC lab and run the full suite of
> radiated compatibility tests. You
> probably wont find any violations . . .
> and even if there are some, the
> probability of posing a risk is
> low. The last EMC lab time I rented
> was about 20 years ago and it was
> over $750/hr!
>>
>> Same question with regulators. Will a switching regulator create
>> noise that we can't use or is it best to use a linear regulator with it's
attendant heat problems. 12V to 5 V.
>>
> I take it you're not talking about an
> alternator regulator. What energy class
> are we talking about? Mounted on an
> ECB to stroke the Arduino parts?
> I wouldn't worry about it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
==========================
==========================
==========================
-=========================
==========================
-=========================
==========================
==========================
====================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> |
I run several 5 volt arduinos for data collection, displays, and signal
processing in plastic boxes and haven't detected any issues whether they
are powered or not. No effect on a couple of gps receivers or VHF comm.
I do not have an ILS or VOR receiver.
Ken
On 16/12/2020 9:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 07:17 PM 12/16/2020, you wrote:
>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> Anybody know if an Arduino will create interference with the aircraft
>> radios, including GPS.
>
> unlikely but easy to test in VMC
> flight. The only predictive activity
> you can pursue is to take it to an
> EMC lab and run the full suite of
> radiated compatibility tests. You
> probably wont find any violations . . .
> and even if there are some, the
> probability of posing a risk is
> low. The last EMC lab time I rented
> was about 20 years ago and it was
> over $750/hr!
>>
>> Same question with regulators. Will a switching regulator create
>> noise that we can't use or is it best to use a linear regulator with
>> it's attendant heat problems. 12V to 5 V.
> I take it you're not talking about an
> alternator regulator. What energy class
> are we talking about? Mounted on an
> ECB to stroke the Arduino parts?
> I wouldn't worry about it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A RICHARD GOLDMAN <argoldman(at)aol.com> |
Ken,
Very encouraging.
What are you using to reduce to 5V?
Thanks
Rich
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 16, 2020, at 9:09 PM, C&K wrote:
>
>
> I run several 5 volt arduinos for data collection, displays, and signal processing
in plastic boxes and haven't detected any issues whether they are powered
or not. No effect on a couple of gps receivers or VHF comm. I do not have
an ILS or VOR receiver.
> Ken
>
>> On 16/12/2020 9:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> At 07:17 PM 12/16/2020, you wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings all,
>>>
>>> Anybody know if an Arduino will create interference with the aircraft radios,
including GPS.
>>
>> unlikely but easy to test in VMC
>> flight. The only predictive activity
>> you can pursue is to take it to an
>> EMC lab and run the full suite of
>> radiated compatibility tests. You
>> probably wont find any violations . . .
>> and even if there are some, the
>> probability of posing a risk is
>> low. The last EMC lab time I rented
>> was about 20 years ago and it was
>> over $750/hr!
>>>
>>> Same question with regulators. Will a switching regulator create
>>> noise that we can't use or is it best to use a linear regulator with it's attendant
heat problems. 12V to 5 V.
>> I take it you're not talking about an
>> alternator regulator. What energy class
>> are we talking about? Mounted on an
>> ECB to stroke the Arduino parts?
>> I wouldn't worry about it.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>> out of that stuff?"
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "andymeyer" <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com> |
Arduinos interface very nicely. In fact, I've tested and am installing an color,
touchscreen engine monitor based on three arduino type microcontrollers. Already
proved out the interface with the GPS (both Aviation and NMEA formats).
I have linear regulators for power. https://recom-power.com/pdf/Innoline/R-78E-1.0.pdf
What I've built is a circuit board with all of my glue logic (linear power supplies,
thermocouple to analog converters, voltage dividers, circuit protection,
drivers for outputs, RS-232 drivers, etc...) on a board that the Arduino (Teensy)
micro-controller board is installed on.
The teensy is easily programmed in C. Working on the air data computer / magnetometer
now. That will feed the data for winds aloft computations to my Avidyne
IFD540.
I've also got a Stratux (home built ADS-B receiver) feeding traffic and weather
via RS232 to my IFD-540 which then shares it to my ipad, etc... That has a boost/buck
converter since the Raspberry Pi needs a bit more power. (2 amps)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499691#499691
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
How impressive!
On Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 17:36 andymeyer, wrote:
> >
>
> Arduinos interface very nicely. In fact, I've tested and am installing an
> color, touchscreen engine monitor based on three arduino type
> microcontrollers. Already proved out the interface with the GPS (both
> Aviation and NMEA formats).
>
> I have linear regulators for power.
> https://recom-power.com/pdf/Innoline/R-78E-1.0.pdf
>
> What I've built is a circuit board with all of my glue logic (linear power
> supplies, thermocouple to analog converters, voltage dividers, circuit
> protection, drivers for outputs, RS-232 drivers, etc...) on a board that
> the Arduino (Teensy) micro-controller board is installed on.
>
> The teensy is easily programmed in C. Working on the air data computer /
> magnetometer now. That will feed the data for winds aloft computations to
> my Avidyne IFD540.
>
> I've also got a Stratux (home built ADS-B receiver) feeding traffic and
> weather via RS232 to my IFD-540 which then shares it to my ipad, etc...
> That has a boost/buck converter since the Raspberry Pi needs a bit more
> power. (2 amps)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499691#499691
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 09:25 AM 12/17/2020, you wrote:
>
>Arduinos interface very nicely. In fact, I've tested and am
>installing an color, touchscreen engine monitor based on three
>arduino type microcontrollers. Already proved out the interface with
>the GPS (both Aviation and NMEA formats).
>
>I have linear regulators for power.
>https://recom-power.com/pdf/Innoline/R-78E-1.0.pdf
>
>What I've built is a circuit board with all of my glue logic (linear
>power supplies, thermocouple to analog converters, voltage dividers,
>circuit protection, drivers for outputs, RS-232 drivers, etc...) on
>a board that the Arduino (Teensy) micro-controller board is installed on.
>
>The teensy is easily programmed in C. Working on the air data
>computer / magnetometer now. That will feed the data for winds aloft
>computations to my Avidyne IFD540.
>
>I've also got a Stratux (home built ADS-B receiver) feeding traffic
>and weather via RS232 to my IFD-540 which then shares it to my ipad,
>etc... That has a boost/buck converter since the Raspberry Pi needs
>a bit more power. (2 amps)
Great data points . . .
The first flying uC project I built was
individual CPU, Bus decoders, RAM, ROM,
I/O ports, etc. There were significant
lengths of copper running between chips
to keep everything dancing together. These
were NOT transmission lines terminated
for minimal radiation. Hence, likelihood
of radiation was significant but on the
upside, that uC clocked along at a blazing
4 MHz!
I've not personally taken a uC project
to production so there was never a need to
run through the EMC sniffer lab. All my
stuff was engineering prototype or flight
test hardware. So I'll never know if those
early hammer-n-tongs projects would have
problematic pathways to production.
Today's uC device run MUCH faster but the
family of chips necessary to address
the task are on a single piece of silicon.
Essentially zero bus lengths.
The most energetic violators of RF sanctity
in the cockpit have been display screens of various
types. I recall walking up to a booth at OSH
one year with a VHF Comm transceiver in my
pocket. The starry-eyed entrepreneur was eager
to show me his offering for a little engine
monitor with a 2.5" screen with great color
and brightness. The transceiver in my pocket
went bonkers. Took the antenna of the radio
and probed around the outside of his nicely
crafted enclosure. The greatest radiation
came from the face of the display.
I think the risks for unwanted radiation from
your DIY project is low and probably fixable
if it is discovered. If your project includes
a flat screen display . . . look there first.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
andymeyer wrote:
>
>
> I've also got a Stratux (home built ADS-B receiver) feeding traffic and weather
via RS232 to my IFD-540 which then shares it to my ipad, etc... That has a
boost/buck converter since the Raspberry Pi needs a bit more power. (2 amps)
>
Slight topic hijack, but do you have the details of the RS232 output from the Stratux?
I'd like that input to a GRT Mini display. John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499694#499694
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stratux RS-232 Wx+Trfc Out to various navigators... |
| From: | "andymeyer" <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com> |
farmrjohn wrote:
>
>
> Slight topic hijack, but do you have the details of the RS232 output from the
Stratux? I'd like that input to a GRT Mini display. John
>
Surprisingly easy!
If you order a CP2102 module off of Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N7RNFRJ/
and follow the instructions here:
http://advanced-flight-systems.com/forum/threads/1489-Stratux-Serial-Output
I did like they did here and connected everything (power and serial) via a DB-9
connector and feed it 12V. I put a boost/buck converter in my enclosure to go
from 12V down to the max recommended for the Pi.
Made my own slim-jim antennas and have had really good luck with the system.
Set your baud rate up appropriately and your receiver to Capstone Wx+Trfc High
Speed and you're set. I forget if I'm running 38,400 or 115200 for the baud rate.
This feeds my IFD540. I do get the "No TIS-B" warning on the IFD, looking into
this now, but I still get good traffic and wx data.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499696#499696
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "andymeyer" <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com> |
farmrjohn wrote:
>
> andymeyer wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've also got a Stratux (home built ADS-B receiver) feeding traffic and weather
via RS232 to my IFD-540 which then shares it to my ipad, etc... That has
a boost/buck converter since the Raspberry Pi needs a bit more power. (2 amps)
> >
>
>
> Slight topic hijack, but do you have the details of the RS232 output from the
Stratux? I'd like that input to a GRT Mini display. John
Started new thread on this...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499697#499697
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <david(at)carter.net> |
I'm using an Arduino to read the analog 0-5v output from an automotive AFR
monitor (Ballenger AFR500v2) as input to a PID controller, with the output
controlling a linear actuator (fancy name for servo) that pushes or pulls
the mixture knob in my RV7A. I also have a Raspberry Pi-based Stratux in
the plane, and I've never encountered EMI issues. I'd like to add control
of my heater damper because I'm always fiddling with it - always too hot or
too cold.
I'm using these actuators -
https://www.actuonix.com/RC-linear-servos-s/1853.htm
---
David Carter
david(at)carter.net
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 10:17 PM A RICHARD GOLDMAN
wrote:
> Thanks Bob,
>
> I am considering using RC servos to regulate heating airflow from a fan
> heat exchanger (liquid cooled) to enable me to electrically control 3 tub
es
> =94front seat, rear seats and defrost. The servos need pulse modula
ted... a
> good application for the Arduino. The servos and Arduino need power at
> around 5V thus the necessity for regulator.
>
> Maybe these kind of things have stretched my build time to 16 years and
> still counting=F0=9F=A4-
>
> Rich
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 16, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 07:17 PM 12/16/2020, you wrote:
>
> Greetings all,
>
> Anybody know if an Arduino will create interference with the aircraft
> radios, including GPS.
>
>
> unlikely but easy to test in VMC
> flight. The only predictive activity
> you can pursue is to take it to an
> EMC lab and run the full suite of
> radiated compatibility tests. You
> probably wont find any violations . . .
> and even if there are some, the
> probability of posing a risk is
> low. The last EMC lab time I rented
> was about 20 years ago and it was
> over $750/hr!
>
>
> Same question with regulators. Will a switching regulator create
> noise that we can't use or is it best to use a linear regulator with it's
> attendant heat problems. 12V to 5 V.
>
>
> I take it you're not talking about an
> alternator regulator. What energy class
> are we talking about? Mounted on an
> ECB to stroke the Arduino parts?
> I wouldn't worry about it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
> ========================
=========== st">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ========================
=========== cs.com
> ========================
=========== om ============
======================
> matronics.com/contribution ===============
===================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Millner <millner(at)me.com> |
"andymeyer" drivers for outputs, RS-232 drivers,
Hi Andy, sounds very cool! How about ARINC out for those who need it? :-)
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> |
David,
Super cool project!=C2- I have questions:
1. What is the PID controller running on? (Arduino, uController,???)2. Wher
e, physically did you place the O2 sensor?
Thx,
JeffCamarillo CA
rter.net> wrote:
I'm using an Arduino to read the analog 0-5v output from an automotive AFR
monitor (Ballenger AFR500v2) as input to a PID controller, with the output
controlling a linear actuator (fancy name for servo) that pushes or pulls
the mixture knob in my RV7A. I also have=C2-a Raspberry Pi-based Stratux
in the plane, and I've never encountered EMI issues. I'd like to add contro
l of my heater damper because I'm always fiddling with=C2-it - always too
hot or too cold.=C2-
I'm using these actuators -=C2-https://www.actuonix.com/RC-linear-servos-
s/1853.htm
---
David Carter
david(at)carter.net
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 10:17 PM A RICHARD GOLDMAN wrot
e:
Thanks Bob,
I am considering using RC servos to regulate heating airflow from a fan hea
t exchanger (liquid cooled) to enable me to electrically control 3 tubes
=94front seat, rear seats and defrost. The servos need pulse modulate
d... a good application for =C2-the Arduino. The servos and Arduino need
power at around 5V thus the necessity for regulator.
Maybe these kind of things have stretched my build time to 16 years and sti
ll counting=F0=9F=A4-
Rich
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 16, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelec
tric.com> wrote:
At 07:17 PM 12/16/2020, you wrote:
Greetings all,
=C2-
Anybody know if an Arduino will create interference with the aircraftradios
, including GPS.
=C2- unlikely but easy to test in VMC
=C2- flight. The only predictive activity
=C2- you can pursue is to take it to an
=C2- EMC lab and run the full suite of
=C2- radiated compatibility tests. You
=C2- probably wont find any violations . . .
=C2- and even if there are some, the
=C2- probability of posing a risk is
=C2- low. The last EMC lab time I rented
=C2- was about 20 years ago and it was
=C2- over $750/hr!
=C2-
Same question with regulators. Will a switching regulator create
noise that we can't use or is it best to use a linear regulator with it'sat
tendant heat problems. 12V to 5 V.
=C2-
=C2- I take it you're not talking about an
=C2- alternator regulator. What energy class
=C2- are we talking about? Mounted on an
=C2- ECB to stroke the Arduino parts?
=C2- I wouldn't worry about it.
=C2- Bob . . .
=C2- Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If blackboxes
=C2- survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
=C2- out of that stuff?"
==========st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroEl
ectric-List==========cs.com=========
=om==========matronics.com/contribution====
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <david(at)carter.net> |
Jeff -
>> 1. What is the PID controller running on? (Arduino, uController,???)
- The pid logic is currently running on an ESP32 programmed via
the Arduino IDE. I'm not sure if that will be the final HW platform or not.
I'd like to have WiFi and/or BLE available for future enhancements. The
ESP32 BLE stack consumes almost the entire program space, so I may need to
go with a co-processor to offload the communications or drop the BLE idea.
- I'm using this PID library -
https://github.com/br3ttb/Arduino-PID-Library
>> 2. Where, physically did you place the O2 sensor?
- I'm using the NTK production-grade O2 sensor because it is much
more tolerant of 100LL than the Bosch wideband O2 sensors. There's a good
thread on VAF about this.
- My IO-360 has a 4-into-2 crossover exhaust. You should try to
pick the exhaust pipe connected to your first-to-peak cylinder if you have
that data from EGT monitoring. Mine is placed in the pilot-side exhaust
pipe. I placed the sensor according to the directions in the Ballenger
manual.
https://www.bmotorsports.com/download/products/o2/AFR500v2_Manual.pdf
- There is an article in Kitplanes magazine from March 2019 that
describes an installation similar to mine.
I borrowed the idea for the linear actuator on the mixture knob from this
product: http://flightenhancements.com/auto-lean.html It holds a target
EGT value, where my version holds a target AFR value.
---
David Carter
david(at)carter.net
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 3:46 PM Jeff Luckey wrote:
> David,
>
> Super cool project! I have questions:
>
> 1. What is the PID controller running on? (Arduino, uController,???)
> 2. Where, physically did you place the O2 sensor?
>
>
> Thx,
>
>
> Jeff
> Camarillo CA
>
> david(at)carter.net> wrote:
>
>
> I'm using an Arduino to read the analog 0-5v output from an automotive AF
R
> monitor (Ballenger AFR500v2) as input to a PID controller, with the outpu
t
> controlling a linear actuator (fancy name for servo) that pushes or pulls
> the mixture knob in my RV7A. I also have a Raspberry Pi-based Stratux in
> the plane, and I've never encountered EMI issues. I'd like to add control
> of my heater damper because I'm always fiddling with it - always too hot
or
> too cold.
>
> I'm using these actuators -
> https://www.actuonix.com/RC-linear-servos-s/1853.htm
>
> ---
> David Carter
> david(at)carter.net
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 10:17 PM A RICHARD GOLDMAN
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob,
>
> I am considering using RC servos to regulate heating airflow from a fan
> heat exchanger (liquid cooled) to enable me to electrically control 3 tub
es
> =94front seat, rear seats and defrost. The servos need pulse modula
ted... a
> good application for the Arduino. The servos and Arduino need power at
> around 5V thus the necessity for regulator.
>
> Maybe these kind of things have stretched my build time to 16 years and
> still counting=F0=9F=A4-
>
> Rich
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 16, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> At 07:17 PM 12/16/2020, you wrote:
>
> Greetings all,
>
> Anybody know if an Arduino will create interference with the aircraft
> radios, including GPS.
>
>
> unlikely but easy to test in VMC
> flight. The only predictive activity
> you can pursue is to take it to an
> EMC lab and run the full suite of
> radiated compatibility tests. You
> probably wont find any violations . . .
> and even if there are some, the
> probability of posing a risk is
> low. The last EMC lab time I rented
> was about 20 years ago and it was
> over $750/hr!
>
>
> Same question with regulators. Will a switching regulator create
> noise that we can't use or is it best to use a linear regulator with it's
> attendant heat problems. 12V to 5 V.
>
>
> I take it you're not talking about an
> alternator regulator. What energy class
> are we talking about? Mounted on an
> ECB to stroke the Arduino parts?
> I wouldn't worry about it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
> ========== st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Aer
oElectric-List
> ========== cs.com ========== om
========== matronics.com/contribution
> =========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Arduino ARINC? |
| From: | "andymeyer" <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com> |
I looked into it, but seems to be a ton of work. Got the spec for it (I think it's
a pretty $$$ license.)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499703#499703
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Group
Permatatex makes a Gray Very High Temp Silicone #27036 good for up to 700F and
a Red Very High Temp Silicone #27038 good for up to 750F. Does anyone have any
experience using these FWF? Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499704#499704
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
Never heard of Permatatex but FWF I use Permatex 27038.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 17:56 rparigoris wrote:
> rparigor(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Group
> Permatatex makes a Gray Very High Temp Silicone #27036 good for up to 700F
> and a Red Very High Temp Silicone #27038 good for up to 750F. Does anyone
> have any experience using these FWF? Thx. Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499704#499704
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
Ron,
What are you using it for? What FWF gets that hot and needs silicone?
-- Art Z.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 8:10 PM rparigoris wrote:
> rparigor(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Group
> Permatatex makes a Gray Very High Temp Silicone #27036 good for up to 700F
> and a Red Very High Temp Silicone #27038 good for up to 750F. Does anyone
> have any experience using these FWF? Thx. Ron P.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others. --
Lynn Schusterman*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
My question, as well. I used silicone bath caulk to reseal baffles to
the heads/cylinders on an RV4 Lyc 5 or 6 years ago, and it was still
holding up well when I sold the plane last year.
A friend on the rotary engine list used it instead of a metal gasket to
seal the exhaust manifold to the block on a racing rotary.
Charlie
On 12/17/2020 8:23 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Ron,
>
> What are you using it for? What FWF gets that hot and needs silicone?
>
> -- Art Z.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 8:10 PM rparigoris > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Hi Group
> Permatatex makes a Gray Very High Temp Silicone #27036 good for up
> to 700F and a Red Very High Temp Silicone #27038 good for up to
> 750F. Does anyone have any experience using these FWF? Thx. Ron P.
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
> /Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others.
> -- Lynn Schusterman/
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stratux RS-232 Wx+Trfc Out to various navigators... |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
My Stratux has the GPS module installed. Would there be room for the CP2102?
Also, I'm powering the Stratux via the micro USB port. Does the boost/buck converter
replace that by going through the CP2102 or would the micro USB still
work OK without the boost/buck? The Stratux works fine with the iPad via WIFI
but it would be nice to get the information on the GRT Mini display.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499708#499708
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Group
Permatex makes a Gray Very High Temp Silicone #27036 good for up to 700F and a
Red Very High Temp Silicone #27038 good for up to 750F. Does anyone have any experience
using these FWF? Thx. Ron P.[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499709#499709
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Group
I didn't answer question, I'm using Silicone to seal holes in Firewall. I'm using
Silicone Grommets with thin SS shields and Aluminium collets and supplementing
with Silicone. I made a huge pass through that after I fill with wires I
will fill with Silicone:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3ShTVJz3u8ZMmo2t?e=ivjch0
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499710#499710
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stratux RS-232 Wx+Trfc Out to various navigators... |
| From: | "andymeyer" <meyerkc135(at)gmail.com> |
The CP2102 only provides the serial output.
I used the Boost Buck converter, a separate module that I installed in the Box,
to power the Raspberry Pi. I wired it directly to the Raspberry Pi, not through
the micro USB port. Mine is installed in the airplane. Wired to a breaker and
to the IFD.
I would anticipate that the MicroUSB may provide enough power assuming your runs
are short and your supply is running at the upper end of the pi voltage range.
I prefer a more permanent connection than the micro USB. If you're using a
USB GPS, you'll need to make sure that you can squeeze all four USB devices in
the 4 USB ports, or work an alternate option. You can try short USB extension
cables as well. They make them with 90-degree connectors which may help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499711#499711
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
For actual fireproofing, better choice is intumescent caulk=2E More expensi
ve, but swells with heat to close space left by melting wite, etc, and is g
ood to around 2k degrees=2E
=81=A3Sent from BlueMail =8B
On Dec
17, 2020, 10:58 PM, at 10:58 PM, rparigoris wrote:
>
>
>Hi Group
>I didn't answer question, I'm using Silicone to seal h
oles in Firewall=2E
>I'm using Silicone Grommets with thin SS shields and
Aluminium collets
>and supplementing with Silicone=2E I made a huge pass th
rough that after
>I fill with wires I will fill with Silicone:
>https://1dr
v=2Ems/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3ShTVJz3u8ZMmo2t?e=ivjch0
>Ron P=2E
>
>
>Read
this topic online here:
>
>http://forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom/viewtopic=2Ephp?
p=499710#499710
>
>
====================
- The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
atures Navigator to browse
ubscription,
= Photoshare, and much much more:
ics=2Ecom/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
also available via the Web Forums!
ronics=2Ecom
=================
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t Wiki!
==
ou for your generous support!
lle, List Admin=2E
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
Wow Charlie, neat stuff.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:21 PM Charlie England
wrote:
> For actual fireproofing, better choice is intumescent caulk. More
> expensive, but swells with heat to close space left by melting wite, etc,
> and is good to around 2k degrees.
>
> Sent from BlueMail <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=15997>
> On Dec 17, 2020, at 10:58 PM, rparigoris wrote:
>>
com>
>>
>> Hi Group
>> I didn't answer question, I'm using Silicone to seal holes in Firewall.
I'm using Silicone Grommets with thin SS shields and Aluminium collets and
supplementing with Silicone. I made a huge pass through that after I fill
with wires I will fill with Silicone:
>> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3ShTVJz3u8ZMmo2t?e=ivjch0
>> Ron P.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499710#499710
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wik
i.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Charlie
Thank you for reply. Can you recommend a specific caulk and perhaps where to buy
it? Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499714#499714
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Parker <foghorn757(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
I=99m using fire barrier 2000 by 3M on my RV8 project. https://www.3m
.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Fire-Barrier-Silicone-Sealant-
2000-/?N=5002385+3293123941&rt=rud
Here is a good discussion on fire wall protection. https://vansairforce.net
/community/showthread.php?t=47587&highlight=Fire+barrier+2000
Jeff Parker
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 17, 2020, at 23:58, rparigoris wrote:
>
otmail.com>
>
> Hi Group
> I didn't answer question, I'm using Silicone to seal holes in Firewall. I'
m using Silicone Grommets with thin SS shields and Aluminium collets and su
pplementing with Silicone. I made a huge pass through that after I fill with
wires I will fill with Silicone:
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3ShTVJz3u8ZMmo2t?e=ivjch0
> Ron P.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499710#499710
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kelly <amsk22(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
Try google for Fire Barrier 2000. Like that it comes in grey.
Steve
On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 6:41 AM Jeff Parker wrote:
> I=99m using fire barrier 2000 by 3M on my RV8 project.
> https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Fire-Barrier-
Silicone-Sealant-2000-/?N=5002385+3293123941&rt=rud
>
> Here is a good discussion on fire wall protection.
> https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=47587&highlight=F
ire+barrier+2000
>
> Jeff Parker
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 17, 2020, at 23:58, rparigoris wrote:
>
> rparigor(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Group
> I didn't answer question, I'm using Silicone to seal holes in Firewall.
> I'm using Silicone Grommets with thin SS shields and Aluminium collets a
nd
> supplementing with Silicone. I made a huge pass through that after I fill
> with wires I will fill with Silicone:
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3ShTVJz3u8ZMmo2t?e=ivjch0
> Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499710#499710
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
I used 3M Red Fire Barrier Sealant Caulk. Available in the aviation aisle
of your local hardware store such as
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-10-1-fl-oz-Red-Fire-Barrier-Sealant-Caulk-CP
-25WB-Plus-CP25WB-10/100166701
Cheers,
-- Art Z.
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:21 PM Charlie England
> wrote:
>
>> For actual fireproofing, better choice is intumescent caulk. More
>> expensive, but swells with heat to close space left by melting wite, etc
,
>> and is good to around 2k degrees.
>>
>> Sent from BlueMail <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=15997>
>> On Dec 17, 2020, at 10:58 PM, rparigoris wrote:
>>>
.com>
>>>
>>> Hi Group
>>> I didn't answer question, I'm using Silicone to seal holes in Firewall.
I'm using Silicone Grommets with thin SS shields and Aluminium collets an
d supplementing with Silicone. I made a huge pass through that after I fill
with wires I will fill with Silicone:
>>> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9V3ShTVJz3u8ZMmo2t?e=ivjch0
>>> Ron P.
>>>
>>> --
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Each of us is worth only what we are willing to give away to others. --
Lynn Schusterman*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLEN MATEJCEK <fly4grins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Intumescent caulk |
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF?
From: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com>
*snip*Hi Charlie
*Thank you for reply. Can you recommend a specific caulk and perhaps where
to buy
*it? Thx. Ron P.
One can spend a small fortune buying a small quantity from aviation supply
houses, or one can get a standard caulking gun tube full of it in the
aviation sealants aisle of Lowes for about $7, IIRC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 11:57 PM rparigoris wrote:
> rparigor(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Charlie
> Thank you for reply. Can you recommend a specific caulk and perhaps where
> to buy it? Thx. Ron P.
You've probably seen the other replies; 3M makes two kinds I've used. The
red stuff is readily available at big box stores; it's latex based. Has a
kinda gritty texture, but the red color might be its biggest drawback. The
gray stuff is silicone based and has been a bit harder to find, but IIRC,
Aircraft Spruce stocks it. Be aware that the gray is 'better', but more
expensive and being silicone, I found it impossible to get more than a
couple of closely spaced uses out of that expensive caulk tube before the
entire tube cured into a big fireproof cylinder. Playing with 'the google'
this morning brought up some other options that might be better/easier to
use for our purposes. If you can find it in 'toothpaste tube' size, it'll
likely be more than enough for one project. I had to buy gun sized tubes,
and 95%+ cured in the tube and was wasted.
One thing to think about is that you're never really finished with a
homebuilt. If you caulk the passthrough full, it'll be a real nightmare
when (not if) you need to make changes. My plan for my passthroughs is to
squirt out 1/4"-3/8" dia 'sticks' of the caulk onto a plastic sheet and let
them cure, then stuff the empty spaces in the pass-through with them.
Actual sealing will be with firesleeve over the stub of the passthrough,
extending a bit onto the wire bundle, and held in place with stainless hose
clamps, as has been described here and elsewhere. YMMV, etc. :-)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Charlie Is this the gray stuff you are talking about from ACS?:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000caulk.php?clickkey=18880
Does it expand as you were talking about? To compare it with the Permatex products
that have a 750 and 700F temperature rating, what might the temperature rating
of the Firebarrier 2000 be? Thx. Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499720#499720
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/18/2020 9:25 AM, rparigoris wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie Is this the gray stuff you are talking about from ACS?:
> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000caulk.php?clickkey=18880
> Does it expand as you were talking about? To compare it with the Permatex products
that have a 750 and 700F temperature rating, what might the temperature
rating of the Firebarrier 2000 be? Thx. Ron
Hi Ron,
That product has been touted by many on various aviation forums as being
intumescent, and I've always assumed that it was. But I just spent about
half an hour prowling the 3M sites and can find no reference to
'intumescent' in their docs. Nor can I find any direct reference to
temperature rating; only the 'implication' of 2000 degree rating in the
name. The docs refer to various ASTM testing methods, which you can read
for about $50 each if you're willing to pay.
On the other hand, this stuff:
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Fire-Barrier-Sealant-CP-25WB-/?N=5002385+3293123924&rt=rud
does have the magic word in its description, and mentions a 1000 degree
temp rating.
3M Fire Barrier Watertight Silicone
3000 WT Sealant
is also listed by 3M as being intumescent.
I've attached a pdf of 3M fire block products. Hope it will make it
through; its 1.5Mbytes.
Charlie
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
If an engine fire has burned through a 1/4" bead of 700F silicone caulk th
at has a stainless cover, it has already burned off the head of every alumi
num rivet and turned every bit of epoxy around it to ash.=C2- I don't see
the advantage beyond what is cheap and readily available.
nd7(at)gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/18/2020 9:25 AM, rparigoris wrote:
om>
>
> Hi Charlie Is this the gray stuff you are talking about from ACS?:
> https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000caulk.php?clic
kkey=18880
> Does it expand as you were talking about? To compare it with the Permatex
products that have a 750 and 700F temperature rating, what might the tempe
rature rating of the Firebarrier 2000 be? Thx. Ron
Hi Ron,
That product has been touted by many on various aviation forums as being
intumescent, and I've always assumed that it was. But I just spent about
half an hour prowling the 3M sites and can find no reference to
'intumescent' in their docs. Nor can I find any direct reference to
temperature rating; only the 'implication' of 2000 degree rating in the
name. The docs refer to various ASTM testing methods, which you can read
for about $50 each if you're willing to pay.
On the other hand, this stuff:
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Fire-Barrier-Se
alant-CP-25WB-/?N=5002385+3293123924&rt=rud
does have the magic word in its description, and mentions a 1000 degree
temp rating.
3M=84=A2 Fire Barrier Watertight Silicone
3000 WT Sealant
is also listed by 3M as being intumescent.
I've attached a pdf of 3M fire block products. Hope it will make it
through; its 1.5Mbytes.
Charlie
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | 'caulking' pass-thrus |
More that once, I've seen a grey-beard at Raytheon-
Beech give someone the 'evil eye' for suggesting
any sort of uckem-yucky for use on production
lines. I won't say that tubes of squeeze-out-stuff
were never used on the finished product but it was
rare.
Pass-thrus on the 30 series airplanes were configured
as shown in attached. A piece of firesleeve was first
'doped' on the ends to prevent fraying (yup, that
was a brush-on uckem-yucky). It was clamped hard
onto the feedthru tube. If the wires passing thru
did not 'fill' the voids, pieces of firesleeve
'tape' were wrapped around and thru the strands and
secured with a string tie before a second stainless
clamp would bring the matrix of firesleeve into
close contact with wires.
This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
house of horrors. No ooze, goop, or wiping rags yet
EASY to disassemble for maintenance or addition
of new wires.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Charlie
That's the stuff I've been using, I called 3M because it's hard to figure out all
details from documentation, the maximum service temperature is 302F, it has
a fire rating of 4 hours. 4 hours means nothing to me so I had representative
try to explain. I asked if that's 4 hours with a propane torch on top of it,
and oxyaceletene torch on top of it or the neighbor burning garbage 2 miles away.
The best I could get is it isn't meant for an aeroplane, so I posed how about
a car, how would it hold up to a gas or oil fire on a car. Well their product
isn't meant for a car either. It's meant for sealing to sheet rock and then
it will hold up for 4 hours:
Firestop tested up to 4 hours in
accordance with ASTM E 814 (UL
1479) & CAN/ULC S115
Fire Resistance tested for construction
joint systems in accordance with
ASTM E 1966 (UL 2079)
Class 25 sealant, per ASTM C
That's all I got, doesn't mean much to me. I have some Red Dow 736 meant for 500
and short 600F and tested it with a torch on it along with Fire Barrier 2000,
didn't see much difference, perhaps the gray was slightly slightly better but
they both go away. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499725#499725
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> |
Posts 38 thru 42 this VAF thread "Firewall sealant and Fire Safety" could be interesting:
https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=72087
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u6GeZo6pmBWsKykLNVQMvu4o1VEVyP4K
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499726#499726
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 'caulking' pass-thrus |
I don't understand the reference...
"This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
house of horrors."
But this "Jack" guy sounds like a lot of fun ;)
Also, what's a 30 Series airplane?=C2- The picture looks like a Productio
n aircraft but I can't identify it.=C2- (I'm gonna guess... Cessna 210 ??
?)
-Jeff
wrote:
More that once, I've seen a grey-beard at Raytheon-
Beech give someone the 'evil eye' for suggesting
any sort of uckem-yucky for use on production
lines. I won't say that tubes of squeeze-out-stuff
were never used on the finished product but it was
rare.
Pass-thrus on the 30 series airplanes were configured
as shown in attached. A piece of firesleeve was first
'doped' on the ends to prevent fraying (yup, that
was a brush-on uckem-yucky). It was clamped hard
onto the feedthru tube. If the wires passing thru
did not 'fill' the voids, pieces of firesleeve
'tape' were wrapped around and thru the strands and
secured with a string tie before a second stainless
clamp would bring the matrix of firesleeve into
close contact with wires.
This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
house of horrors. No ooze, goop, or wiping rags yet
EASY to disassemble for maintenance or addition
of new wires.
=C2- Bob . . .
=C2- Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If blackboxes
=C2- survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
=C2- out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 'caulking' pass-thrus |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
I think Bob is saying that the firesleeve/hose clamp method (which I
also referenced) was tested in a production aircraft facility
(Raytheon-Beech) using a blowtorch type device, to FAA qualification
required limits, and I suspect that Jack Thurman ran the testing division.
On 12/18/2020 2:11 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
> I don't understand the reference...
>
> "This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
> Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
> house of horrors."
>
> But this "Jack" guy sounds like a lot of fun ;)
>
>
> Also, what's a 30 Series airplane? The picture looks like a
> Production aircraft but I can't identify it. (I'm gonna guess...
> Cessna 210 ???)
>
>
> -Jeff
>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> More that once, I've seen a grey-beard at Raytheon-
> Beech give someone the 'evil eye' for suggesting
> any sort of uckem-yucky for use on production
> lines. I won't say that tubes of squeeze-out-stuff
> were never used on the finished product but it was
> rare.
>
> Pass-thrus on the 30 series airplanes were configured
> as shown in attached. A piece of firesleeve was first
> 'doped' on the ends to prevent fraying (yup, that
> was a brush-on uckem-yucky). It was clamped hard
> onto the feedthru tube. If the wires passing thru
> did not 'fill' the voids, pieces of firesleeve
> 'tape' were wrapped around and thru the strands and
> secured with a string tie before a second stainless
> clamp would bring the matrix of firesleeve into
> close contact with wires.
>
> This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
> Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
> house of horrors. No ooze, goop, or wiping rags yet
> EASY to disassemble for maintenance or addition
> of new wires.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stratux RS-232 Wx+Trfc Out to various navigators... |
| From: | "pestar" <peter(at)reivernet.com> |
Buy your CP2102 from Alibaba, USD $7.00 at my door in New Zealand, for my Stratux
power supply I use a UBEC DC/DC Step-Down (Buck) Converter - 5V @ 3A output
USD$9-95 (postage not included). Fits in the Statux case and is powered of my
aircraft 12v. No need to worry about battery packs.
To make more room for the CP2102 in the Stratux case I removed the pins and directly
soldered the RS232 wires to the CP2102 which is connected to my MGL EFIS
Also purchased my Stratux USB GPS off Alibaba, another USD$12.00 delivered. Broke
my bank :)
Modified the CP2102 as per the previous included thread instructions.
All works a dream for ADSB-IN which in NZ is 1090 only.
Cheers Peter
--------
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499729#499729
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone FWF? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/18/2020 1:41 PM, rparigoris wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie
> That's the stuff I've been using, I called 3M because it's hard to figure out
all details from documentation, the maximum service temperature is 302F, it has
a fire rating of 4 hours. 4 hours means nothing to me so I had representative
try to explain. I asked if that's 4 hours with a propane torch on top of it,
and oxyaceletene torch on top of it or the neighbor burning garbage 2 miles
away. The best I could get is it isn't meant for an aeroplane, so I posed how
about a car, how would it hold up to a gas or oil fire on a car. Well their product
isn't meant for a car either. It's meant for sealing to sheet rock and then
it will hold up for 4 hours:
> Firestop tested up to 4 hours in
> accordance with ASTM E 814 (UL
> 1479) & CAN/ULC S115
> Fire Resistance tested for construction
> joint systems in accordance with
> ASTM E 1966 (UL 2079)
> Class 25 sealant, per ASTM C
> That's all I got, doesn't mean much to me. I have some Red Dow 736 meant for
500 and short 600F and tested it with a torch on it along with Fire Barrier 2000,
didn't see much difference, perhaps the gray was slightly slightly better
but they both go away. Ron P.
Which one? It seems there are multiple threads going, and some of us are
using email (I am, anyway) and others are using the web based list, so I
don't know which product you're talking about. The F-B-2000? If so, it
would seem that you're probably right, since they're so vague with info.
They do claim 1000F+ for the CP 25 WP+ intumescent caulk. Spec sheet
attached, showing that the intumescent action happens at 1000 degrees F.
For simple seam sealing, if we're realistic, just about anything would
be fine, like Ernest said. The latex based intumescent stuff (CP25WP+)
is much cheaper, and ideal for filling empty space around wires, etc in
holes, but even that is probably overkill if you use the firesleeve/hose
clamp method Bob linked.
Charlie
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone |
FWF?
>Which one? It seems there are multiple threads going, and some of us
>are using email (I am, anyway) and others are using the web based
>list, so I don't know which product you're talking about. The
>F-B-2000? If so, it would seem that you're probably right, since
>they're so vague with info. They do claim 1000F+ for the CP 25 WP+
>intumescent caulk. Spec sheet attached, showing that the intumescent
>action happens at 1000 degrees F.
>
>For simple seam sealing, if we're realistic, just about anything
>would be fine, like Ernest said. The latex based intumescent stuff
>(CP25WP+) is much cheaper, and ideal for filling empty space around
>wires, etc in holes, but even that is probably overkill if you use
>the firesleeve/hose clamp method Bob linked.
It's been some time since I read the qualification testing
docs for firewall integrity so I might be in error. I have
witnessed a couple of tests conducted by the famous Jack
Thurman and his trusty fire-breathing dragon.
A mock firewall sheet is fitted with the proposed feed
thru system. A propane fired burner is positioned a
few feet off the front side of the firewall. A thermocouple
is positioned about 6" off the firewall right in front
of the test article.
The test setup is bathed in propane powered flame
sufficient to push the thermocouple reading to 2000
plus or minus a hundred or so degrees . . . for
ten minutes.
After everything cools down, the feedthru is
disassembled and inspected for depth of penetration
into the assembly with some criteria for maximum
allowed charring, etc of the wiring.
The sealants being discussed are, no doubt, suitable
for intended purposes of closing voids around pipes
and/or bundles of wires that penetrate walls
in structures . . . I'm having trouble wrapping my
head around any perceived similarities between a
.030" thick sheet of stainless and a 6" concrete
or cinder block wall.
I'll be the first to agree that chances of being
at-risk from a fuel-fed fire in your airplane
is really pretty low . . . but not zero. But to
fill your comfort basket with the knowledge
nuggets of a completely unrelated approach
to fire control seems extra-ordinarily
risky too.
I'll see if I can scare up a service manual
or two for some TC aircraft in search of
a narrative on replacement/modification of
qualified firewall feed thrus.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone |
FWF?
wrote:
=C2-=C2- A mock firewall sheet is fitted with the proposed feed
=C2-=C2- thru system. A propane fired burner is positioned a
=C2-=C2- few feet off the front side of the firewall. Athermocouple
=C2-=C2- is positioned about 6" off the firewall right infront
=C2-=C2- of the test article.
=C2-=C2- The test setup is bathed in propane powered flame
=C2-=C2- sufficient to push the thermocouple reading to 2000
=C2-=C2- plus or minus a hundred or so degrees . . . for
=C2-=C2- ten minutes.
With all due respect, why doesn't the test require that the test article al
so support the weight of firewall forward components while the test is bein
g conducted?=C2- For a firewall that is held together and to the airplane
with either rivets that melt at around 950F (but are mechanically useless
above 500F), and epoxy that will melt above 300F (at best), all that test s
hows is that your wire bundle will be safe as the pieces of your airplane c
rash to the ground in different spots.=C2- Maybe the hope is that the cau
lk can hold the airplane together.
I understand safety margins, and a desire to get the best protection availa
ble.=C2- But as with everything else, there comes a point when the search
for safety crosses over to being useless, then comical, or may even reach
counter productive. I wonder if Mr. Thurman has run the test on a firewall
connected to fuselage and engine to see how long they stay together.=C2-
The front half of a fuselage that is already heading to the recycle plant w
ould be all that's necessary.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone used very high temp silicone |
FWF?
III wrote:
A mock firewall sheet is fitted with the proposed feed
thru system. A propane fired burner is positioned a
few feet off the front side of the firewall. A thermocouple
is positioned about 6" off the firewall right in front
of the test article.
The test setup is bathed in propane powered flame
sufficient to push the thermocouple reading to 2000
plus or minus a hundred or so degrees . . . for
ten minutes.
With all due respect, why doesn't the test
require that the test article also support
the weight of firewall forward components
while the test is being conducted?
Not for individual, non-structural components.
To be sure, there are very few such devices
intended to maintain firewall integrity
while taking wire bundles from one side to
the other. The pass-thrus I illustrated
are one such device, bulkhead electrical
connectors are another. They may have tested
things like cabin heat mixer boxes on
that fixture.
Chapter 13 of this document
https://tinyurl.com/yd4kapvh
speaks to those components. The handbook
is 235 pages and covers a constellation
of materials and applications.
For a firewall that is held together and to the airplane with either
rivets that melt at around 950F (but are mechanically useless above 500F),
. . . this isn't a test of the firewall
but only a component bolted to the firewall.
and epoxy that will melt above 300F (at best), all that test shows is
that your wire bundle will be safe as the pieces of your airplane
crash to the ground in different spots. Maybe the hope is that the
caulk can hold the airplane together.
Composite aircraft are another study/
solution and may also be covered in
the cited document.
I understand safety margins, and a desire to get the best protection
available. But as with everything else, there comes a point when the
search for safety crosses over to being useless, then comical, or may
even reach counter productive. I wonder if Mr. Thurman has run the
test on a firewall connected to fuselage and engine to see how long
they stay together. The front half of a fuselage that is already
heading to the recycle plant would be all that's necessary.
Dunno . . . I didn't work in that
facility routinely. I only conducted
tests germane to my tasks. Those were not
'searches for safety' rather qualification
tests of specific components conducted
in compliance with standards of the day.
To be sure, firewall forward fires are
rare and are fueled by either gasoline
(for which you have shutoffs), engine
oil which has escaped from compromised
plumbing . . . or gross disassembly
of the engine (thrown jug or a rod
punching a hole in the crankcase).
The later case is probably the impetus
for testing at the really high energy
levels for so long an interval of time.
6-8 qts of 50W represents a huge chunk
of energy.
I've often wondered about aluminum cowls
burning thru and exposing the windscreen
to direct flame.
But keep in mind too that this thread
was about tubes of fire stop goop and
goos from the BigBox stores. And to
be sure, about any of those would
probably be adequate to the task. Given
that they are shielded by the fire-sleeve.
The point I would emphasize is that stuff squirted
from a tube is 'messy' from the get
go. Raytheon-Beech was pretty hard
over for finding/developing assembly-
line and field-mechanic friendly while
meeting requirements cited in the FARS.
This discussion is more about refinement
of process than optimization of performance.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TImothy Shankland <tshankland(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stratux RS-232 Wx+Trfc Out to various navigators... |
I found that commercially available cables with micro USB had too large a
voltage drop for my system to work. I bought a micro USB plug that I could
solder heavier wires.
@gmail.com> wrote:
>
The CP2102 only provides the serial output.
I used the Boost Buck converter, a separate module that I installed in the
Box, to power the Raspberry Pi. I wired it directly to the Raspberry Pi, no
t through the micro USB port. Mine is installed in the airplane. Wired to a
breaker and to the IFD.
I would anticipate that the MicroUSB may provide enough power assuming your
runs are short and your supply is running at the upper end of the pi volta
ge range. I prefer a more permanent connection than the micro USB. If you'r
e using a USB GPS, you'll need to make sure that you can squeeze all four U
SB devices in the 4 USB ports, or work an alternate option. You can try sho
rt USB extension cables as well. They make them with 90-degree connectors w
hich may help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499711#499711
-
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 02:11 PM 12/18/2020, you wrote:
>I don't understand the reference...
>
>"This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
>Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
>house of horrors."
>
>But this "Jack" guy sounds like a lot of fun ;)
Yeah, we used to joke about 'running the
gauntlet Jack's Place'. My most memorable
experience was during an interval where I
was not an employee of Beech but a supplier.
They were trying to qualify an ov protection
system onto the proposed Model 58 "Lightning", a single
engine, turbine powered airplane. Seems the
alternator on the proposed engine ran 7000
rpm in cruise. It was a 70A machine as I
recall. Seems that every example of ov management
module in inventory could not corral this whirling
dervish 50 times in a row with minimum load
and no battery. The field disconnect relays
contacts would burn up. I knew how to 'fix'
the relays but . . .
My boss, Fred Coslett at Electro-Mech, came to my
desk one morning and cited the problem Beech
was having with the quest. I had an idea gleaned
from some trade magazine for a little different
ov management methodology.
I took one of our production regulator/ov
products (already qualified on Bonanza and
Baron lines) but unsuitable for Lightning
and modified it with a crowbar ov protection
system.
Took it out to Jack's Place and he wired
it to the mock-up. He fired up the test
bench and announced his intention to 'start
out easy' . . . idle rpm, battery on line.
"Naw," says me. "Let's give it the acid test
right out of the gate."
He set it up and punched the fault button.
Unlike virtually all of the previously
tested products, it seemed as if nothing
happened . . . except for a short brightening
of lights and system voltage dropping to
battery voltage. He looked at the chart
recorder and it showed the typical fast
rise to 32 volts where it abruptly relaxed
and dropped to battery voltage.
"Hmmm" says Jack, "Wonder it will stand
50 repeats with the 51st being identical to
first."
I told him that he could run 100 tests and they
would all be the same . . . the 'test' wasn't
exercising MY ov management system, it was
only proving the circuit breaker qualified to
Beech requirements decades ago.
My modified regulator/ov was a shoo-in for the
Lightning. It would have been the first crowbar
system to get approved on a TC aircraft . . . then
they canceled the program. Last time I saw
the Lightning, it was sitting outside one of
Rutan's hangars at Mojave. I spotted it while
wandering the airport on the evening of Voyager
roll-out. Heard later that Burt acquired the
58P carcass to salvage the engine and instruments.
It would be 10-15 years later than crowbar
ov was qualified onto TC aircraft as a feature
in B&C's standby alternator offerings. Voyager
was among the first to fly with crowbar protection
along with B&C's family of OBAM aircraft
customers.
Nowadays, crowbar protection has found its
way into a number of TC regulator/ov products . . .
don't think it ever found its way onto
Electro-Mech products . . . but the genesis
occurred at EMI and was birthed in Jack's Place.
>Also, what's a 30 Series airplane? The picture looks like a
>Production aircraft but I can't identify it. (I'm gonna guess...
>Cessna 210 ???)
That picture was taken on the A36 production
line at Beech. That was in Plant II and before
the line was moved to Mexico. I think Beech
was the 4th aircraft company to occupy that
building . . . it's gone now . . . replaced
by a Costco.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jack's Place |
Beech 38-P
[image: image.png]
[image: image.png]
Chris Stone
RV-8
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 9:25 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 02:11 PM 12/18/2020, you wrote:
>
> I don't understand the reference...
>
> "This closure method was no doubt 'proofed' by
> Puff-the-Magic-Dragon who resided in Jack Thurman's
> house of horrors."
>
> But this "Jack" guy sounds like a lot of fun ;)
> Yeah, we used to joke about 'running the
> gauntlet Jack's Place'. My most memorable
> experience was during an interval where I
> was not an employee of Beech but a supplier.
>
> They were trying to qualify an ov protection
> system onto the proposed Model 58 "Lightning", a single
> engine, turbine powered airplane. Seems the
> alternator on the proposed engine ran 7000
> rpm in cruise. It was a 70A machine as I
> recall. Seems that every example of ov management
> module in inventory could not corral this whirling
> dervish 50 times in a row with minimum load
> and no battery. The field disconnect relays
> contacts would burn up. I knew how to 'fix'
> the relays but . . .
>
> My boss, Fred Coslett at Electro-Mech, came to my
> desk one morning and cited the problem Beech
> was having with the quest. I had an idea gleaned
> from some trade magazine for a little different
> ov management methodology.
>
> I took one of our production regulator/ov
> products (already qualified on Bonanza and
> Baron lines) but unsuitable for Lightning
> and modified it with a crowbar ov protection
> system.
>
> Took it out to Jack's Place and he wired
> it to the mock-up. He fired up the test
> bench and announced his intention to 'start
> out easy' . . . idle rpm, battery on line.
> "Naw," says me. "Let's give it the acid test
> right out of the gate."
>
> He set it up and punched the fault button.
> Unlike virtually all of the previously
> tested products, it seemed as if nothing
> happened . . . except for a short brightening
> of lights and system voltage dropping to
> battery voltage. He looked at the chart
> recorder and it showed the typical fast
> rise to 32 volts where it abruptly relaxed
> and dropped to battery voltage.
>
> "Hmmm" says Jack, "Wonder it will stand
> 50 repeats with the 51st being identical to
> first."
>
> I told him that he could run 100 tests and they
> would all be the same . . . the 'test' wasn't
> exercising MY ov management system, it was
> only proving the circuit breaker qualified to
> Beech requirements decades ago.
>
> My modified regulator/ov was a shoo-in for the
> Lightning. It would have been the first crowbar
> system to get approved on a TC aircraft . . . then
> they canceled the program. Last time I saw
> the Lightning, it was sitting outside one of
> Rutan's hangars at Mojave. I spotted it while
> wandering the airport on the evening of Voyager
> roll-out. Heard later that Burt acquired the
> 58P carcass to salvage the engine and instruments.
>
> It would be 10-15 years later than crowbar
> ov was qualified onto TC aircraft as a feature
> in B&C's standby alternator offerings. Voyager
> was among the first to fly with crowbar protection
> along with B&C's family of OBAM aircraft
> customers.
>
> Nowadays, crowbar protection has found its
> way into a number of TC regulator/ov products . . .
> don't think it ever found its way onto
> Electro-Mech products . . . but the genesis
> occurred at EMI and was birthed in Jack's Place.
>
>
> Also, what's a 30 Series airplane? The picture looks like a Production
> aircraft but I can't identify it. (I'm gonna guess... Cessna 210 ???)
>
>
> That picture was taken on the A36 production
> line at Beech. That was in Plant II and before
> the line was moved to Mexico. I think Beech
> was the 4th aircraft company to occupy that
> building . . . it's gone now . . . replaced
> by a Costco.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | flash from the past |
While digging out the only picture I had of the
Beech 38, I ran across some files marking an important
milestone in my electron-herding history.
This short video demonstrates a production version
of a patient transporter that was developed here
in Wichita circa 1969-1971.
Ken Razak, former Dean of Engineering at Wichita
University hired me out of Cessna's Technical
Publications department to design and fabricate
electrical components of the machine. This was
my first design job exactly 50 years ago.
https://tinyurl.com/ybpegpo5
I have to give Ken a lion's share of the credit
for seeing potential in me that I couldn't even
have imagined at the time. We worked together on
various ventures for the next 30 years.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jack's Place |
Chris,
Thank you so much for the pictures. I was not employed
at Beech during this program so my contact with
the project was limited to EMI's proposed alternator
controller.
I looked up the following information on N241FP:
2006 BAYLES RICHARD L LIGHTNING
Fixed wing single engine
(6 seats / 1 engine)
BEECHCRAFT HERITAGE MUSEUM INC
TULLAHOMA , TN, US
(Corporation)
This looks like an OBAM aircraft project. Quite
an undertaking!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jack's Place |
A combination of Bonanza parts... Well done in the Beech tradition!
Chris
I looked up the following information on N241FP:
2006 BAYLES RICHARD L LIGHTNING
Fixed wing single engine
(6 seats / 1 engine)
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 2:23 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> Chris,
>
> Thank you so much for the pictures. I was not employed
> at Beech during this program so my contact with
> the project was limited to EMI's proposed alternator
> controller.
>
> I looked up the following information on N241FP:
>
> 2006 BAYLES RICHARD L LIGHTNING
> Fixed wing single engine
> (6 seats / 1 engine)
>
> BEECHCRAFT HERITAGE MUSEUM INC
> TULLAHOMA , TN, US
> (Corporation)
>
> This looks like an OBAM aircraft project. Quite
> an undertaking!
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flash from the past |
Wow!
I remember those heady days in engineering... In my case with degree in
hand, out to change the world. Wide paisley ties included! Shag
heirloom gold carpets too!
Thanks for sharing... great memories!
.chris
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 4:40 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> While digging out the only picture I had of the
> Beech 38, I ran across some files marking an important
> milestone in my electron-herding history.
>
> This short video demonstrates a production version
> of a patient transporter that was developed here
> in Wichita circa 1969-1971.
>
> Ken Razak, former Dean of Engineering at Wichita
> University hired me out of Cessna's Technical
> Publications department to design and fabricate
> electrical components of the machine. This was
> my first design job exactly 50 years ago.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/ybpegpo5
>
> I have to give Ken a lion's share of the credit
> for seeing potential in me that I couldn't even
> have imagined at the time. We worked together on
> various ventures for the next 30 years.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Can I closely bundle 120vac with aircraft wiring? |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Group I'm installing a two Reiff heaters on my Rotax 914. One on the oil tank
(50 watts) and one on the engine sump (100 watts). I want to closely wire the
120vac with airplane harness. There's engine sensors, Rotax TCU and sensors
among other things. Can closely bundling 120vac cause any problems? Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499769#499769
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can I closely bundle 120vac with aircraft wiring? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
There will not be a problem running AC wires near DC wires.
[as long as the AC is unplugged before flying :-) ]
Use heat conductive paste between the oil tank and heating band.
My engine heat pad failed because it had trouble adhering to the curved surface.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499773#499773
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | automatic switch |
This is for a hangar home that is under construction, so it is relevant :)
I am planning a small solar/generator powered emergency electrical system.
Three solar panels, a 4800 watt-hour lithium battery, charge controller and
an inverter/charger.
It's function will be to run necessary equipment (boiler, unit heater, well
pump, refrigerator/freezer) in the event of a power outage.
I have experience with systems like this from having built three campers.
But this is different in that I would like to have a switch that
automatically detects when the power goes off, and switches things over to
the alternate system.
I know such switches exist, but I know nothing about them -- how they
operate, how to choose one, how to wire one into the system, etc. I would
appreciate any info people might have.
Ken Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Russell <peteruss2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
Try looking at IGBT devices ..maybe checkout DIGAKEY PRODUCTS
.
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list
-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Ken Ryan
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 2:11 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: automatic switch
This is for a hangar home that is under construction, so it is relevant :)
I am planning a small solar/generator powered emergency electrical system.
Three solar panels, a 4800 watt-hour lithium battery, charge controller and
an inverter/charger.
It's function will be to run necessary equipment (boiler, unit heater, well
pump, refrigerator/freezer) in the event of a power outage.
I have experience with systems like this from having built three campers. B
ut this is different in that I would like to have a switch that automatical
ly detects when the power goes off, and switches things over to the alterna
te system.
I know such switches exist, but I know nothing about them -- how they opera
te, how to choose one, how to wire one into the system, etc. I would apprec
iate any info people might have.
Ken Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/23/2020 8:11 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> This is for a hangar home that is under construction, so it is
> relevant :)
>
> I am planning a small solar/generator powered emergency electrical
> system. Three solar panels, a 4800 watt-hour lithium battery, charge
> controller and an inverter/charger.
>
> It's function will be to run necessary equipment (boiler, unit heater,
> well pump, refrigerator/freezer) in the event of a power outage.
>
> I have experience with systems like this from having built three
> campers. But this is different in that I would like to have a switch
> that automatically detects when the power goes off, and switches
> things over to the alternate system.
>
> I know such switches exist, but I know nothing about them -- how they
> operate, how to choose one, how to wire one into the system, etc. I
> would appreciate any info people might have.
>
> Ken Ryan
Hi Ken,
At their simplest, they are DPDT relays with common to load, normally
closed terminals tied to the backup generator and normally open
terminals tied to the line. Line power activates the coil of the relay.
When line power 'drops', the relay switches to the backup terminals.
I've got a backup generator on my house with the mfgr's purpose-built
switch; more complex in that it manages the generator startup and (IIRC)
waits to apply the load until the generator is up to speed. My setup is
complicated a bit (OK, a lot) because I actually have 3 phase power to
my house, and a standard single phase generator. I have some 220V single
phase loads that have one leg on the 3rd phase, so I have to also switch
one leg of a 3 phase load to one of the single phase legs when the
generator comes on line. For this, I used a relatively inexpensive
automatic switch similar to this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373107679744?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACQBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkd%252F0I%252BERpYfmzqCvv7sUYEiMnF2axAEl9q2lSCIlkYaYVHn3mJ6Wa5wEMvmDn8uxTMxj32yK3bDxTkgR4V9edhGXnRvcQ0vUf%252F93bvTeb%252FXHCtlg3u8RUWERU5%252FH0mqbicjj13f0qSPcudz4EzH3b4BHBQVAkU9eQV8rT4%252FR7c33dX8Cgzc7JCEasmNKLnaYUCCJY52pfjr8K1fz23LQiXAJ%252BE7EZmHwX6M0QKbZLkynKTAgD%252F7pwKwPfudNsCEGUOoaljGVx5x1neFVG2sqOItY0ASop8TY25HVbBo4TnBNr5oGg2l7HLvWwU2h10XBWuGAbZceqPsRMahjxbsAstgc3cy2HKbQSB8u4Qwc20%252F5Bi8J5s7x2BXdBDKjCkEMwhXL2B3MPlNKH15cUioOkGz8A1SKEnDlG4evpmD1a%252BVfw0wRfplwi5%252FsKD4slLo7vluRxfES7mJtX%252BmbuRsd1v5bPV7s8NcEt1QBK3gtbpVluwdyjtscnf1zv9XJossDhZ%252FkTBLrdCOCKM75s0FMz72qZrrTkpg%252F6a5WNP8rQXa6v6jgKNxHgf%252BosKXaSmmKPAOg2XEbJ6TGGHA1ZbfU2Q7%252BPFKoknYYCi04jPR3V8Gi4c%252BFpn2ICvume959kr%252BS9r35h088j%252FPzJA745eko0wRGNxezMNVf55Dc1zSuuvByAknxZz4YyfpMfsIY5LhYgAqBlTio99SI2mPzW8rIUbw%253D%253D%7Ccksum%3A3731076797441dfdcb105a744a9faf66816ba7733d1e%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A3268220&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=373107679744&targetid=1068323853350&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9013952&poi=&campaignid=10456336033&mkgroupid=106723176427&rlsatarget=aud-622524042478:pla-1068323853350&abcId=2146001&merchantid=6296724&gclid=CjwKCAiA8ov_BRAoEiwAOZogwbEA9XSqJRMLH163QnMuK2YJhtJ-ClTlNXpnOjryz8AOak3lzDW8lBoCpXEQAvD_BwE
Markings are not in English, and sorting out how to connect the device
took some time and effort.
Note that I'm so cheap I'll waste a week to save a few dollars, and I
also have a reasonable history around electrical 'stuff' (my father was
an electrician his whole career, and I ran an electronics repair company
before being hired by USPS as an electronics tech). If you have a solid
foundation in electrical/electronic principles and you're willing to put
in the effort, you can probably DIY, but if you're uncomfortable with
the idea, it might be time to call an electrician.
Does that help?
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
>
>I know such switches exist, but I know nothing about them -- how
>they operate, how to
>choose one, how to wire one into the system, etc. I would appreciate
>any info people might have.
>
>Ken Ryan
Lots of products out there but not difficult to build
The 'transfer' device is simply a two-pole, double-throw
contactor that connects loads to EITHER ac mains OR
inverter.
You'll need a control system with some simple logic.
(1) Transfer to INVERTER is asserted when (a)
battery voltage is higher than some minimum
-AND- (b) when AC mains power is not present.
(2) Inverter system is in a 'relaxed maintenance'
mode any time AC mains power is present.
(3) you might need a timer with xx milliseconds
delay from time AC mains fails until transfer
is asserted. Needed only if inverter doesn't gracefully
grunt a load during startup. Not likely but
should be confirmed.
There are dozens of off-the-shelf product that
would accomplish this task. Check out websites
that target off-grid, homepower systems.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net |
| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
Hi Ken;
They're available and called (appropriately) "automatic transfer switch." They're
generally used to transfer from utility current to emergency generator current,
but will work equally well in your application. There are also "manual transfer
switches," if you want to save some money.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 6:11:44 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: automatic switch
This is for a hangar home that is under construction, so it is relevant :)
I am planning a small solar/generator powered emergency electrical system. Three
solar panels, a 4800 watt-hour lithium battery, charge controller and an inverter/charger.
It's function will be to run necessary equipment (boiler, unit heater, well pump,
refrigerator/freezer) in the event of a power outage.
I have experience with systems like this from having built three campers. But this
is different in that I would like to have a switch that automatically detects
when the power goes off, and switches things over to the alternate system.
I know such switches exist, but I know nothing about them -- how they operate,
how to choose one, how to wire one into the system, etc. I would appreciate any
info people might have.
Ken Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
Thanks everyone. I think I understand how to do it now. Perhaps those with
knowledge of these systems can check my work:
a) battery (3600 watt-hours) lithium
b) connect solar (1100 watts) through solar charge control to battery
c) connect 240v (output) inverter/battery charger to battery
d) install an automatic transfer switch to house electrical system (power
all loads)
e) connect the output of the inverter to the transfer switch (where
normally a generator would be connected)
f) run a 110 volt outlet to the battery charger that is built into the
inverter
g) if battery gets low, connect 3kw 110v Honda generator to the
inverter/charger to charge the battery (when solar is insufficient)
h) in the summer, when there is plenty of power, I could cut the power from
the grid and run off solar.
When the power goes out, the transfer switch cuts connection to the grid
and makes connection to the inverter. When generator is connected to
inverter/charger, generator runs loads and recharges battery. When power
from grid returns, the transfer switch cuts the connection to the inverter
and makes the connection to the grid.
So I guess any generic automatic transfer switch should work, right?
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 7:34 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> I know such switches exist, but I know nothing about them -- how they
> operate, how to
> choose one, how to wire one into the system, etc. I would appreciate any
> info people might have.
>
> Ken Ryan
>
>
> Lots of products out there but not difficult to build
>
> The 'transfer' device is simply a two-pole, double-throw
> contactor that connects loads to EITHER ac mains OR
> inverter.
>
> You'll need a control system with some simple logic.
>
> (1) Transfer to INVERTER is asserted when (a)
> battery voltage is higher than some minimum
> -AND- (b) when AC mains power is not present.
>
> (2) Inverter system is in a 'relaxed maintenance'
> mode any time AC mains power is present.
>
> (3) you might need a timer with xx milliseconds
> delay from time AC mains fails until transfer
> is asserted. Needed only if inverter doesn't gracefully
> grunt a load during startup. Not likely but
> should be confirmed.
>
> There are dozens of off-the-shelf product that
> would accomplish this task. Check out websites
> that target off-grid, homepower systems.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Your problem will be that you're not talking about enough 'grunt' from
the solar/battery/inverter system, to support the whole house. I had
similar issues with my 12KW 'whole house' generator; it won't support
both AC units, electric oven, etc while lighting the house. If you do
some googling of how smaller generating systems are set up, there will
be a main panel which feeds the majority of loads. One breaker in the
main panel will feed the transfer switch, which will then feed a
sub-panel. That sub-panel then feeds the essential circuits. The 'off
the shelf' switches made for whole house backup generators often
incorporate the sub-panel in the same box with the transfer switch. This
one (1st random link I hit) is very similar to the one used with my 12KW
system:
https://www.zoro.com/generac-automatic-transfer-switch-100a-gray-rxg16eza1/i/G5258373/
Charlie
On 12/23/2020 11:18 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> Thanks everyone. I think I understand how to do it now. Perhaps those
> with knowledge of these systems can check my work:
>
> a) battery (3600 watt-hours) lithium
> b) connect solar (1100 watts) through solar charge control to battery
> c) connect 240v (output) inverter/battery charger to battery
> d) install an automatic transfer switch to house electrical system
> (power all loads)
> e) connect the output of the inverter to the transfer switch (where
> normally a generator would be connected)
> f) run a 110 volt outlet to the battery charger that is built into the
> inverter
> g) if battery gets low, connect 3kw 110v Honda generator to the
> inverter/charger to charge the battery (when solar is insufficient)
> h) in the summer, when there is plenty of power, I could cut the power
> from the grid and run off solar.
>
> When the power goes out, the transfer switch cuts connection to the
> grid and makes connection to the inverter. When generator is connected
> to inverter/charger, generator runs loads and recharges battery. When
> power from grid returns, the transfer switch cuts the connection to
> the inverter and makes the connection to the grid.
>
> So I guess any generic automatic transfer switch should work, right?
>
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 7:34 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I know such switches exist, but I know nothing about them -- how
>> they operate, how to
>> choose one, how to wire one into the system, etc. I would
>> appreciate any info people might have.
>>
>> Ken Ryan
>
> Lots of products out there but not difficult to build
>
> The 'transfer' device is simply a two-pole, double-throw
> contactor that connects loads to EITHER ac mains OR
> inverter.
>
> You'll need a control system with some simple logic.
>
> (1) Transfer to INVERTER is asserted when (a)
> battery voltage is higher than some minimum
> -AND- (b) when AC mains power is not present.
>
> (2) Inverter system is in a 'relaxed maintenance'
> mode any time AC mains power is present.
>
> (3) you might need a timer with xx milliseconds
> delay from time AC mains fails until transfer
> is asserted. Needed only if inverter doesn't gracefully
> grunt a load during startup. Not likely but
> should be confirmed.
>
> There are dozens of off-the-shelf product that
> would accomplish this task. Check out websites
> that target off-grid, homepower systems.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
> out of that stuff?"
>
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
I would manage this by limiting my usage during a power outage. Everything
is available, but everything is not used.
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 10:23 AM Charlie England
wrote:
> Your problem will be that you're not talking about enough 'grunt' from the
> solar/battery/inverter system, to support the whole house. I had similar
> issues with my 12KW 'whole house' generator; it won't support both AC
> units, electric oven, etc while lighting the house. If you do some googling
> of how smaller generating systems are set up, there will be a main panel
> which feeds the majority of loads. One breaker in the main panel will feed
> the transfer switch, which will then feed a sub-panel. That sub-panel then
> feeds the essential circuits. The 'off the shelf' switches made for whole
> house backup generators often incorporate the sub-panel in the same box
> with the transfer switch. This one (1st random link I hit) is very similar
> to the one used with my 12KW system:
>
> https://www.zoro.com/generac-automatic-transfer-switch-100a-gray-rxg16eza1/i/G5258373/
>
> Charlie
>
> On 12/23/2020 11:18 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone. I think I understand how to do it now. Perhaps those with
> knowledge of these systems can check my work:
>
> a) battery (3600 watt-hours) lithium
> b) connect solar (1100 watts) through solar charge control to battery
> c) connect 240v (output) inverter/battery charger to battery
> d) install an automatic transfer switch to house electrical system (power
> all loads)
> e) connect the output of the inverter to the transfer switch (where
> normally a generator would be connected)
> f) run a 110 volt outlet to the battery charger that is built into the
> inverter
> g) if battery gets low, connect 3kw 110v Honda generator to the
> inverter/charger to charge the battery (when solar is insufficient)
> h) in the summer, when there is plenty of power, I could cut the power
> from the grid and run off solar.
>
> When the power goes out, the transfer switch cuts connection to the grid
> and makes connection to the inverter. When generator is connected to
> inverter/charger, generator runs loads and recharges battery. When power
> from grid returns, the transfer switch cuts the connection to the inverter
> and makes the connection to the grid.
>
> So I guess any generic automatic transfer switch should work, right?
>
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 7:34 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I know such switches exist, but I know nothing about them -- how they
>> operate, how to
>> choose one, how to wire one into the system, etc. I would appreciate any
>> info people might have.
>>
>> Ken Ryan
>>
>>
>> Lots of products out there but not difficult to build
>>
>> The 'transfer' device is simply a two-pole, double-throw
>> contactor that connects loads to EITHER ac mains OR
>> inverter.
>>
>> You'll need a control system with some simple logic.
>>
>> (1) Transfer to INVERTER is asserted when (a)
>> battery voltage is higher than some minimum
>> -AND- (b) when AC mains power is not present.
>>
>> (2) Inverter system is in a 'relaxed maintenance'
>> mode any time AC mains power is present.
>>
>> (3) you might need a timer with xx milliseconds
>> delay from time AC mains fails until transfer
>> is asserted. Needed only if inverter doesn't gracefully
>> grunt a load during startup. Not likely but
>> should be confirmed.
>>
>> There are dozens of off-the-shelf product that
>> would accomplish this task. Check out websites
>> that target off-grid, homepower systems.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>> out of that stuff?"
>>
>
>
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
>
> <#m_7286640853633196346_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
At 01:38 PM 12/23/2020, you wrote:
>I would manage this by limiting my usage during a power outage.
>Everything is available, but everything is not used.
I have a manual system where I use the
feeder to the a/c compressor as a means
for getting power into the house from
and outside generator.
I manually transfer the a/c feeder over
to the generator. I also have to open
the a/c mains breaker out on my meter box.
I open breakers to all 240v appliances
to avoid inadvertent overloads.
This arrangement with a 5500W generator
will allow us to run more than adequate
lights, freezer, refrigeration, furnaces,
etc. I've got a natural gas conversion kit
yet to install on on the generator so as
to do away with storing large amounts of
gasoline and then having to periodically
top off the tank.
This whole system was crafted from
off-the-shelf materials from Harbor
Freight and the N.G. Conversion kit
for under $700. Best yet, the generator
remains portable for the occasional off-site
power needs.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: automatic switch |
That's fine, but if it's 'automatic', that implies that it can switch over
and begin consuming power off the backup(s) whether you're there to 'load
shed' or not. Just something to think about.
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 1:52 PM Ken Ryan wrote:
> I would manage this by limiting my usage during a power outage. Everything
> is available, but everything is not used.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 10:23 AM Charlie England
> wrote:
>
>> Your problem will be that you're not talking about enough 'grunt' from
>> the solar/battery/inverter system, to support the whole house. I had
>> similar issues with my 12KW 'whole house' generator; it won't support both
>> AC units, electric oven, etc while lighting the house. If you do some
>> googling of how smaller generating systems are set up, there will be a main
>> panel which feeds the majority of loads. One breaker in the main panel will
>> feed the transfer switch, which will then feed a sub-panel. That sub-panel
>> then feeds the essential circuits. The 'off the shelf' switches made for
>> whole house backup generators often incorporate the sub-panel in the same
>> box with the transfer switch. This one (1st random link I hit) is very
>> similar to the one used with my 12KW system:
>>
>> https://www.zoro.com/generac-automatic-transfer-switch-100a-gray-rxg16eza1/i/G5258373/
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> On 12/23/2020 11:18 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
>>
>> Thanks everyone. I think I understand how to do it now. Perhaps those
>> with knowledge of these systems can check my work:
>>
>> a) battery (3600 watt-hours) lithium
>> b) connect solar (1100 watts) through solar charge control to battery
>> c) connect 240v (output) inverter/battery charger to battery
>> d) install an automatic transfer switch to house electrical system (power
>> all loads)
>> e) connect the output of the inverter to the transfer switch (where
>> normally a generator would be connected)
>> f) run a 110 volt outlet to the battery charger that is built into the
>> inverter
>> g) if battery gets low, connect 3kw 110v Honda generator to the
>> inverter/charger to charge the battery (when solar is insufficient)
>> h) in the summer, when there is plenty of power, I could cut the power
>> from the grid and run off solar.
>>
>> When the power goes out, the transfer switch cuts connection to the grid
>> and makes connection to the inverter. When generator is connected to
>> inverter/charger, generator runs loads and recharges battery. When power
>> from grid returns, the transfer switch cuts the connection to the inverter
>> and makes the connection to the grid.
>>
>> So I guess any generic automatic transfer switch should work, right?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 7:34 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
>> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I know such switches exist, but I know nothing about them -- how they
>>> operate, how to
>>> choose one, how to wire one into the system, etc. I would appreciate any
>>> info people might have.
>>>
>>> Ken Ryan
>>>
>>>
November 04, 2020 - December 24, 2020
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-pv