Allegro-Archive.digest.vol-aa
January 29, 2006 - October 31, 2007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | First Message to New Allegro List! |
This is a test message to the new Allegro List at Matronics Email Forums.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Six New Email Lists / Forums At Matronics! |
Dear Listers,
Its my pleasure to announce the addition of six new Email List / Forums to the
aviation line up at Matronics! These new lists support all the usual features
you've come to know and love from the Matronics Email List including full integration
with the All New Web BBS Forums Site!! The new Lists include:
LycomingEngines-List Textron/Lycoming Engines
RotaxEngines-List Rotax Engine for Aircraft
M14PEngines-List Vendenyev M14P Radial Engine
MurphyMoose-List Murphy Moose Aircraft
Allegro-List Allegro 2000, a Czech-built, Rotax-powered Aircraft
Falco-List Sequoia Aircraft's Falco Experimental
To sign up for any or all of the new Lists, surf over to the Matronics Email List
Subscription Form and follow the instructions:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Don't forget to check out the All New Web BBS Forum now available along with all
of the usual message and archive viewing tools at the Matronics Email Lists
site. Surf over to the following URL for information on the BBS Forum:
http://forums.matronics.com
Enjoy the new Lists!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro owner or pilot whereabouts? |
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff2(at)aol.com> |
Hi Tom and other Allegro owners and builders. I had asked Matt to try an "Allegro
"site and he was willing to try it to see if it gets used. I have e-mailed
all the dealers in the USA and also abroad to let them know about it. I am involved
with a 2005 Allegro, 100 hp, very nicely equiped, which I fly out of Freehold
NY.
Bob Griffin
Slingerlands, NY
--------
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
Slingerlands, NY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8279#8279
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro owner or pilot whereabouts? |
Yes Tom, I am helping Lee with his dealership. I helped him fly our demo
plane up from No. Carolina. I give his demo flights for him and will either fly
new planes up for new owners or help them is they wish. We are now schedualing
fly-ins to attend and dropping off literature. How is you cabin heater for cold
weather flying?
fly safe
Bob Griffin
Slingerlands, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Website information |
Hello everyone
Thanks to Thom and Bill for starting this forum.
I am the new dealer for the Allegro in South East Asia based in Thailand.
I have started a website www.aero-siam.com which has a lot of information and photos about the Allegro and which I plan to expand and try to make useful to everyone interested in this excellent airplane.
My Allegro is not due to arrive until April and I welcome any feedback or corrections
to the website.
Like Thom, I hope that by getting pilots, owners and dealers together, we can
help eachother by sharing information and experiences and keep sport flying safe
and enjoyable.
Paul Keohane
paul@aero-siam.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8863#8863
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Cruise Speeds |
Thom
Thanks for the detailed info on the performance of the 80hp which I have incorporated
into the website.
If someone has similar performance figures for the speed/RPM/fuel burn for the
100hp, please add them to the topic and we can expand the information available.
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9061#9061
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Cruise Speeds |
Paul,
The airspeed varies approximately with the square root of the power.
The 912UL engine has a maximum continuous rating of 79 HP at 5,500 rpm.
The 912ULS is rated at 95 HP at 5,500 rpm, also max. continuous.
95 / 79 = 1.18987 18.99% greater max cont. power
1.18987
.5 = 1.0908 9.1% approx. expected speed difference
Since the torque and horsepower curves over entire RPM range are
similar for the two engines, it is reasonable to expect about 9%
difference in airspeeds between the same airplane with different
engines. If an Allegro 2000 with the 912ULS engine and a three blade
Woodcomp prop is pitched for best cruise, then this airplane under the
same conditions could expect True Air Speeds (TAS) of about 9% higher
than the figures in the table I provided. Examples shown below.
Zero Density Altitude
Actual Aircraft Flying Weight 940 lb. or 427 kg.
RPM 912 UL 912 ULS
5,500 126 mph 137 mph
5,000 112 122
4,500 102 111
4,000 92 100
3,500 73 80
I hope this helps.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Cruise Speeds |
Thom
Thanks for the info. I will update the Performance page to incorporate the speeds
for the 100hp.
Is it possible to extrapolate the figures for fuel burn at various RPM to complete
the picture? Rotax's website has a graph for fuel consumption. Can the figures
be used directly or is there a difference between bench tests and actual
in-flight results?
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9316#9316
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Cruise Speeds |
Paul,
Based on what I've been told by a guy I know flying a Kolb Mark III
experimental the 912S is not as fuel efficient at the 912. He flew his
Mark III for a few years with the 912, putting over 1800 hours on it,
then installed a 912S and has been flying that for a little over 2000
hours. If anyone should know it is him. He flies that airplane all
across the USA and Canada, include three trips to Alaska north of the
arctic circle. He was happy with the 912 in every way except he needed
more power to fly over the Rocky Mountains which he does regularly,
even though he lives in Alabama, over 1,000 miles east of the Rockies.
With all his cross country flying he says that in his normal cruise
configuration he got 4 gph with the 912 and 5 gph with the 912S with
only about 5 mph difference in cruise speed. Of course this is with a
slower airplane so the speed difference is less than in the Allegro.
I know that the 912 burns 4.0 gph at 75% power (max cruise HP). Based
on this fact, I calculate the following:
75% x 79 hp = 59.25 hp at cruise
4.0 gph x 6 lb. per gal = 24.0 lb. per hr.
24.0 lb. per hr / 59.25 hp = .405 lb. per HP per hour at 75% cruise
power
Assuming the Kolb pilot is flying the 912S at 75% cruise (max cruise
HP), the following similar calculations yield:
75% x 95 hp = 71.25 hp at cruise
5.0 gph x 6 lb. per gal = 30.0 lb. per hr.
30.0 lb. per hr / 71.25 hp = .421 lb. per HP per hour at 75% cruise
power
The lb. per hour per HP figures are used to compare efficiencies at
specific power settings. Within normal cruise power ranges, say 60% to
80% or so, these numbers should hold close to constant. Typically for
aircraft engines, at higher or lower power settings the efficiencies
are not quite as good.
That said, I would feel comfortable with the following numbers for the
912S:
Power Fuel Consumption (US gph)
60% 4.0 gph
65% 4.3
70% 4.7
75% 5.0
80% 5.3
Outside this range the fuel burn will probably be greater(per HP) than
this but I don't know by how much. You may be able to make educated
guesses by comparing real world fuel burn rates with what is in the
Rotax manuals. BTW, the fuel burn numbers in the Rotax manuals are
notoriously conservative, especially for the 2-stroke engines, so I
would not use them.... too pessimistic.
Worth noting is the fact that the lower compression 912 requires only
87 Octane fuel vs. the higher compression 912S which requires 91 Octane
fuel. I burn 87 Octane auto fuel in both my 912 engines and they are
quite happy with that fuel. Some people run higher octane than is
required but it is a waste of money.
Thom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | amphibious floats |
"Good morning ", Amphibious floats for the Allegro are coming to the USA.
In about 8 weeks, the factory people will be training dealers here in the
states to fly and aquaint themselves with this new option which will be availiable.
We will be attending this forum. For further information:
contact
www.landlsportaviation.com
fly safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Structural Area Abrasion ALERT |
Allegro Flyers:
Structural Area Abrasion ALERT
While at the hangar yesterday showing the Allegro to someone, he looked
under the Right SIde seat and noticed that the re-enforced area of the
fuselage bottom (seen inside) where the main gear leg attaches, there
was evidence of serious abrasion and gradual deterioration of this very
important area. Upon investigation, I determined it was caused by a
rivet used to fasten the seat support webbing to the fiberglass seat
shell. The rivet protruded enough to hit the front edge of the gear
re-enforcement area the way I had the seat adjusted. I am relatively
short in leg but long in torso so I had the seat back dropped down far
enough and the seat mover forward enough for this to occur. I didn't
have my camera with me so I did not get a picture of this. HOWEVER, I
borrowed a picture from Aero-Siam's website that showed just the area
the problem occurred. I've marked up a copy of Paul's picture and
attached it here.
Note that this could occur on either seat at either rivet location and
either in the front or back part of the gear leg attachment
re-enforcement location.
I am copying this to the factory and all know dealers. I am raising my
seat backs so this does not reoccur or get worse and will be patching
this abraded area as soon as I can. I hope the factory can develop and
recommend a solution to this.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Website information |
Hi Paul, I checked your web site and was very impressed. It was Great! Good
luck with your new dealership.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul@AeroSiam" <Paul@aero-siam.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Website information |
Hi Bob
Thanks for the feedback on the website.
Hopefully the Allegro list will grow quickly and we can help eachother out. Thom
has a lot of useful info.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Airgriff2(at)aol.com
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Website information
Hi Paul, I checked your web site and was very impressed. It was Great! Good luck
with your new dealership.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Cruise Speeds |
Thom
Thanks again for your detailed info about fuel consumption and the experiences
of your friend with the Kolb. I am still working on an update to the website.
A couple more points - how is 75% power defined? I have seen it quoted by people
at anywhere between 4800 and 5400 RPM. If 75% power equates to about 71hp for
the 912S then looking at Rotax's website, 71hp hits the line at about 4200 RPM
which seems way low. What's the solution?
Pitching the prop. Does anyone have any info about the performance differences
with the Woodcomp prop set fine and coarse. It would be interesting to do an article
sometime for both engines showing the performance range at both ends of
the scale.
Paul
Aero Siam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10125#10125
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Cruise Speeds |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Paul,
Rotax uses Max. Continuous Cruise RPM and power as the base or 100% since anything
higher than 5,500 is limited to 5 minutes. There are two curves on one chart
shown in the Rotax manual. One curve is for power availalbe and the other is
for power required, if my memory is correct. There is also a table for RPM and
Manifold Pressure settings which equate % power. With an in-flight adjustable
prop, like on my Titan Tornado, or constant speed prop. this table is the
key to setting power. But this table is of little use for fixed-pitch props. That
is why I stated in the data I gave you for the power/speed of 912 engine,
that a change in prop. pitch will invalidate all the data.
5,400 rpm on a 912 series engine (AT SEA LEVEL) is about 98% power if the prop
is pitched in the normal range, i.e. it is loaded. At least one article I've
read about the Allegro states this rpm to be 75%. Just not true and a greviously
mis-leading statement in my opinion.
That said, the way a ground adjustable prop is pitched is one factor that will
determine at what rpm a given amount of power is actually being delivered and
thus fuel consumed. The load is also a big factor. For example, go to straight
and level flight and set your rpm to 4,800 RPM. Notice that in level flight the
throttle is no where near wide open. Set your trim for Vy and advance throttle
to wide open. With the prop set like mine is, the Allegro will start climbing
and at Vy the RPM is still about 4,800 rpm. Which one of these conditions
is consuming more fuel? They are at the same rpm, so why not the same fuel? The
load is far greater during climb at this rpm and the throttle is wide open too.
As I've stated before, my prop is set for best cruise speeds at relatively low
density altitudes. That is, wide open throttle at DA of less than 7,000 feet will
produce 5,500 rpm. At this pitch, our engine turns only 4,800 rpm at Vy and
wide open throttle. At wide open throttle, 4,800 rpm at sea level, the engine
is producing about 84% power. If I wanted/needed better climb performance I
could reduce the pitch a little bit which would result in higher RPM under the
same conditions, say 5,000 rpm, which would yield about 89% power and higher
climb rate. BUT, this means that in straight and level I could pass the 5,500
rpm limit for max. continuous cruise, because with less ptich there is less load
on the engine at a given throttle setting. However, this would also allow for
higher rpm at higher altitudes this producing a little higher cruise speeds
at higher density altitudes at wide open throttle.
As you can see the relationship between power, RPM, and airspeed is complex and
the main reason that airplane performance can benefit greatly from an in-flight
controllable ptich propellor. I can pitch the prop. on my Titan Tornado for
5,500 or even 5,8000 rpm at wide open throttle at Vy climb speed and get 1,400
ft./min. climb rate (5,500 rpm), even with its very short 20' wingspan. When
I reach cruise altitude, I adjust the pitch so that I get 5,500 rpm at wide open
throttle, then reduce the throttle to about 4,200 rpm for low fuel consumption,
and low noise level cruising at nice comfortable cruise speed. Even though
both airplanes have very close to the same max. cruise speed, my normal cruise
speed in the Titan with the adjustable pitch prop is only 4,200 rpm but 4,700
rpm in the Allegro, all because of the in-flight adjustable prop.
In the USA, aircraft with Light Sport Aircraft air-worthiness certificates are
not allowed to have in-flight adjustable propellors. So this is not an option
for Allegro owners in the USA. I don't know the rules in other countries. That
said, if one wanted a good compromise between climb and cruise, I would set the
prop. pitch so that the eingine would turn about 5,000-5,100 rpm with wide
open throttle at Vy.
Sorry for the long-winded response but the relationship bewteen prop pitch, engine
RPM, power and thrust produced is complex.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10149#10149
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Propellor calculator |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
I've found the following websites to be very useful for playing "What If?" with
propellor pitch.
Density Altitude and Percent HP Available
English Units
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_dp.htm
Metric Units
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_dp_metric.htm
Also, the following propellor efficiency calculator is quite useful if you have
some actual performance numbers (TAS at RPM at DA)
http://www.gylesaero.com/freeware/propcalc.shtml
If anyone has questions about these, let me know and I'll try to walk you through
how I've used them.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10338#10338
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
Good morning, I know the vne speed for the SLSA Allegro here in the US is
posted at 137mph as the FAA regulates it to a maximum138mph. What I am
wondering is what is the design speed of the aircraft? What are the speeds for
this
plane in other parts of the world? Is the VNE in Europe or Asia the same? Was
the plane actually designed to go faster, safely?
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob
As quoted by the manufacturer, the Vne of the Allegro 2000 is 220 kilometers per
hour which is 136.71 mph or 118.8 knots.
This is the design Vne and there are no variations of this.
One regional variation that does exist is the maximum take off weight. In some
European countries, this is limited to 992lb but the design take off weight is
1146lb.
On the subject of V speeds, I asked the factory whether there was a different VFE
for first stage flap as is the case for some aircraft particularly given that
the Allegro has an unusually large second stage flap deflection (from 15 to
48 degrees). They said that for safety and simplicity, the VFE for both stages
is set by the designer at 60 knots but in reality, VFE stage one flap was probably
higher.
However, if the design stipulates 60 knots for both stage one and two, let's stick
to it.
Regards
Paul
Aero Siam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11229#11229
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
My ASI reads roughly 10% faster than CAS over most of the speed range so I add
this to the IAS for Vfe and other V numbers. Speaking of ASI errors, has anyone
tried to adjust their ASI to make their IAS read closer to CAS?
On a related subject...
The USA LSA limitaion for Vs (45 knots - w/o flaps) is probably what allowed the
MTOW (MAUW) to be raised to 1,232 lb (560 kg) in the USA. The test results in
the operator's manual indicates a CAS for stall with 0 flaps to be 43 knots
at a weight of 520 kg. thus allowing a higher MTOW and still meet the max. Vs
limitation.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11301#11301
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Limit Load Ratings and their effects |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Paul at Aero-Siam brought to my attention something that should probably be posted
here about Limit Load ratings. The Allegro is rated at 4.0+ and 2.0- Gs at
a flying weight of 520 kg or 1,146 lb. In the USA, the Allegros have a gross
weight limit of 1,232 lb. so the pilot/operator must be aware that if flying above
the 1,146 lb. Limit Load Rating weight the actual limit loads must be adjusted
downward for the additional weight.
At 1,232 lb. the flying weight is 7.5% heavier than the rated Limit Load weight
of 1,146 lb. The ACTUAL LIMIT LOADS for the Allegro flying at 1,232 lb. will
be 3.7+ / 1.9- Gs, not the 4.0+/2.0- in the Allegro documentation. These numbers
are derived by dividing the 4.0 and 2.0 by 1.075, the increased weight factor.
ALSO, be aware that the LANDING GEAR may be designed for a MTOW of 1,146 lb. and
operating at 1,232 lb. should be done with caution, particularly in landing
operations, to avoid undue stress in the landing gear and associated components.
A hard landing at 1,146 lb. may be sustainable but the same rough landing at
1,232 lb. might cause cracks or failure of the landing gear.
The Stall Speeds are also affected by flying weight but not by the same factor.
The Allegro manual says the Calibrated Airspeeds at stall for the three flap
positions were taken at 1,146 lb., as follows:
FLAP 0 43 knots or 49.5 mph
FLAP 1 39 knots or 44.9 mph
FLAP 2 35 knots or 40.3 mph
Since LIFT is a function of the square of airspeed the increase in weight to 1,232
lb. (7.5% increase) does not affect the stall speed by this amount. It affects
it by the square root of this increase, 1.075
.5 = 1.037
The Calibrated airspeeds at 1,232 lb. should be as follows:
FLAP 0 44.59 knots or 51.3 mph
FLAP 1 40.44 knots or 46.5 mph
FLAP 2 36.30 knots or 41.7 mph
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11819#11819
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro key blanks |
Anyone know where to key blanks for the Allegro door lock and master
switch? None of the local lock smiths carry blanks for this Czech lock.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro key blanks |
I tried to source key blanks here in South Africa and had no luck either. I
was only given one door lock key, and after some effort, managed to make
another key that worked. Your best bet might be to ask Fantasy Air to send
you a batch from the Czech Rep that you can take to a locksmith when you
need keys cut.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
> From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
> Subject: Allegro-List: Allegro key blanks
>
>
> Anyone know where to key blanks for the Allegro door lock and master
> switch? None of the local lock smiths carry blanks for this Czech lock.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro key blanks |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Dave,
I've already sent a request to the USA Allegro importer and had no response as
yet. I will try the factory too but so far have never received any response from
them on other quesitons. If I find a source, I'll post it here.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24513#24513
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks |
I have seen Fantasy Airs Mandatory Bulletin No. 4 for the Allegro 2000
(Replacement of extra fuel wing tanks) which seems confusing to me
concerning the affected aircraft. From the S/Ns listed it appears that the
various aircraft affected are random, or maybe I dont understand the serial
numbers. Has any one else seen this bulletin, and can you explain the
randomness of the S/Ns. I have wing tanks, and my Allegro 2000 S/N is
04-713. I am confused! Help!!
Hugh McKay
hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks |
Hugh,
I've seen the SB too but fortunately for us, our Allegro #03-202 does
not have the extended range wing tanks so it certainly does not apply
to mine. This is a guess but I suspect that the odd assortment of
serial numbers affected is due to the fact that not all Allegros are
equipped with the wing tank option. I know the first two digits of the
S/N are the year of manufacture and am guessing that the last three
numbers are merely sequential numbers for all Allegros or Allegro kits
coming from the factory.
Where are you located? I guess somewhere in the deep south of the USA
due to the BellSouth ISP. I used to live in Atlanta, GA.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks |
Hugh
Not sure but maybe they listed s/n's of aircraft with tanks fitted.
Whatever the case, if you have the fiberglass tanks, beware. I had the
fiberglass tanks in mine and only a couple of weeks after installing them
they leaked, both sides. I was planning a long flight so filled both tanks
in preparation for departing the following day, a Monday. The next two days
it rained and on returning on the Wednesday found that about 15 litres had
leaked out of the left tank and 5 litres out of the right. The result was
extensive damage to the paint work on the underside of both wings and the
left door was destroyed by the fuel running over it.
I removed the tanks and pressurised them slightly before pouring soapy water
over them. Both thanks had pinhole leaks in them. Fantasy Air have
replaced the tanks with Aluminium tanks which look much better than the
fiberglass ones. I havn't tried them yet as I still need to repaint the
wings. Have just finished replacing the polycarb on the door.
Regards
Dave Grosvenor
www.dreamwings.co.za
Durban, South Africa
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Allegro-List: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks
>
> I have seen Fantasy Airs Mandatory Bulletin No. 4 for the Allegro 2000
> (Replacement of extra fuel wing tanks) which seems confusing to me
> concerning the affected aircraft. From the S/Ns listed it appears that the
> various aircraft affected are random, or maybe I dont understand the
> serial
> numbers. Has any one else seen this bulletin, and can you explain the
> randomness of the S/Ns. I have wing tanks, and my Allegro 2000 S/N is
> 04-713. I am confused! Help!!
>
> Hugh McKay
> hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks |
I have not seen the Aluminum tanks. How are they constructed? Are they
aluminum tubes with caps welded in place?
The reason I ask, is that on my experimental Titan Tornado, the
home-built aluminum tank started leaking after a few years at one of
the weld seams. This can happen from vibration. I repaired the leak
with Pro-Seal which is very messy to use but really works great. It is
a two part paste and the area to be sealed must be cleaned thoroughly
with acetone or MEK. It has to set up for about 48 hours if my memory
is correct but it works like a charm.
So if the new aluminum tanks develop leaks later (may not) this
Pro-Seal stuff is a great fix.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks |
Thom: I haven't received them yet. As soon as I do, I'll give you the
details. Thanks for the info on Pro-Seal.
Hugh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks
I have not seen the Aluminum tanks. How are they constructed? Are they
aluminum tubes with caps welded in place?
The reason I ask, is that on my experimental Titan Tornado, the
home-built aluminum tank started leaking after a few years at one of
the weld seams. This can happen from vibration. I repaired the leak
with Pro-Seal which is very messy to use but really works great. It is
a two part paste and the area to be sealed must be cleaned thoroughly
with acetone or MEK. It has to set up for about 48 hours if my memory
is correct but it works like a charm.
So if the new aluminum tanks develop leaks later (may not) this
Pro-Seal stuff is a great fix.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Email List Wiki! |
Dear Listers,
I have added a new feature to the Email List Forums at Matronics called a Wiki. What's "Wiki" you ask? A Wiki is a website. You go to it and browse just like you would any other web site. The difference is, you can change it. You can put anything you want on this web site without having to be a web designer or even being the owner. You can write a new page just like writing an email message on the BBS. You don't need to send it off to anyone to install on the site. It is kind of like a Blog (weblog) in which anyone can post. Here is a great page on where the term Wiki came from and what it means in the context of a website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki
So on to the new Matronics Email List Wiki... I've created this site for anyone
from any of the Email Lists to use. I envision that there are a great many
things that can be added to this new Wiki since there are always new and interesting
tidbits of useful information traversing the Lists.
Off the main Matronics Email List Wiki page, you will find a link called "Community
Portal". Here you will find more links to stubs for all the various Lists
found at Matronics (and a few other links). Brian Lloyd and others from the
Yak-List have already begun adding content in a number of areas. Bob Nuckolls
of AeroElectric fame has added a great article on "Ageing Aircraft".
I have discussed the new Matronics Email List Wiki with Tedd McHenry and Dwight Frye of the RV Wiki Site and they have decided to merge their site over onto the new Matronics Wiki server giving everyone a single source for information on RV building and flying! This migration will begin today and you should be able to find all of the content currently found at www.rvwiki.org moved over to the Matronics Wiki within a few days.
To make edits to the Matronics Wiki, you will need to have a login account on the
Matronics Wiki and I have disabled anonymous edits. This protects the Wiki
site from automated spam engines and other nuisances that could compromise the
data at the site.
Signing up for an account is fast and easy and begins by clicking on the "create
an account or log in" link in the upper right hand corner of any page. Note
that you do not have to have a login or be logged in to view any of the content.
The Matronics Email List Wiki is YOUR Wiki! It is only as useful as the content
found within. The concept of the Wiki is that the people the use it and update
it. If you've got an interesting procedure for doing something, MAKE A WIKI
PAGE ON IT! You can even upload pictures. Saw something interesting at a
flyin? MAKE A WIKI PAGE ON IT! Don't be shy, this is YOUR site to share information
with others with similar interests.
Here is a users guide on using the Wiki implemented at Matronics: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents This gives a lot of great information on how to get started editing pages.
And finally, here is the URL for the Matronics Email List Wiki:
http://wiki.matronics.com
Brian Lloyd has written an excellent introduction to Wikis on the front page.
I encourage you to read it over, then drill into the "Community Portal" and HAVE
FUN!!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro key blanks |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
I got a response from the USA Allegro importer. They have ordered a bunch of key
blanks from the factory.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=25907#25907
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Checking/adjusting air pressure in tires |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
The presence of wheel pants makes checking tire pressure rather difficult so I've
not been doing a good job of it on pre-flight. A few days ago after making
a normal landing I had begun my taxi back to the ramp when the left main tire
suddenly went completely flat. Apparently low pressure allowed the valve stem
of the inner tube to shear off, probably from the high inertial load at touch
down. Fortunately it waited until I was in slow taxi to flatten completely. It
could have been a lot worse if it had deflated at touchdown.
Unfortunately this happened not at my home airport but some distance away. The
mechanic ordered a new inner tube from the USA importer and it was delivered two
days later. BUT it was defective so they ordered another one which should arrive
on Monday.
What do we do about actually checking air pressure with the wheel pants in place?
My idea is to bore a hole in the wheel pant big enough to check and adjust
air pressure w/o removing pants/spats and fill the hole with a standard size removable
plug.
Anyone else have other ideas?
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=25908#25908
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks |
The tanks are made up of two 4 ft lengths of ali tube, welded end to end,
with a cap on each end. No longitudinal seam so only 3 welds that could
develope leaks, other than where the outlet and breather tubes are welded on
the root cap.
Dave Grosvenor
Durban, South Africa
www.dreamwings.co.za
----- Original Message -----
From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks
>
>
> I have not seen the Aluminum tanks. How are they constructed? Are they
> aluminum tubes with caps welded in place?
>
> The reason I ask, is that on my experimental Titan Tornado, the
> home-built aluminum tank started leaking after a few years at one of
> the weld seams. This can happen from vibration. I repaired the leak
> with Pro-Seal which is very messy to use but really works great. It is
> a two part paste and the area to be sealed must be cleaned thoroughly
> with acetone or MEK. It has to set up for about 48 hours if my memory
> is correct but it works like a charm.
>
> So if the new aluminum tanks develop leaks later (may not) this
> Pro-Seal stuff is a great fix.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Checking/adjusting air pressure in tires |
Hi Tom and gang, We have the wheel pants on our Allegro and check the
pressure by rolling the aircraft for and aft to access the stem lying on the ground.
Also remember , as part of your preflight, there are red paint marks on the
wheel and rim to indicate if there has been any movement of the tire which can
damage the tube valve. Glad to see the US importer of the Allegro helping you
out in regards to the key blanks and your tube. We have found Doug and Betty
Hemstead to be two of the nicest people and will do most anything to assist
dealers and owners on this side of the pond. Now that the weather has broken here
in upstate NY, we are flying our Allegro 2 or 3 times a week.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Largest European Kit Plane - Final assembly video |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Not directly Allegro related but should be of interest anyway.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3046542226114078023
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=26144#26144
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | carburetor ice and electric carb. heater |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Although Rotax 912 series engines with the Bing 64 carburetors are not very prone
to carburetor ice, it does happen under some conditions. On the return trip
from Clarksville, Tennessee to Buffalo, New York this past Monday. I experienced
carb. ice when approaching the relatively high humidity region near Lake Erie.
We were cruising at 5,500' msl at 5,200 rpm when I noticed a slow descent
and lower engine RPM (5,000 rpm). The OAT was about 43F (6C), nearly ideal conditions
for carb. ice with high humidity.
Since our engine is not equipped with carb. heat, I advanced the throttle but no
change in power or RPM and we kept descending slowly. The engine was obviously
developing less power than two mintues before but there was no indication other
than the lower RPM and lack of increase with full throttle. I cycled the
throttle to idle and back to full throttle a couple times and it cleared up completely
without skipping a bit and never returned for the remainder of the 600nm
flight.
Moral of story is when in high humidity conditions keep a watchful eye on RPM when
cruising. If you catch it early it can usually be cleared very easily and
quickly on this type carb. by cycling the throttle to idle and back a couple of
times. Once the ice starts building up it continues to build up rapidly and
becomes serious very quickly if not dealt with early.
I've heard someone makes an electric carb. heater for the Bing 64 but don't know
who sells them. Anyone out there know abou this and a source? I know the HKS
engine importer in the USA sells a 12 watt one for the HKS which uses the Bing
64 carbs. but I don't think that is enough power to de-ice a carb once the ice
starts forming. I've heard there is a 60 watt model available somewhere.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28093#28093
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 04/13/06 |
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/bing/carbheater.htm
Tom and the few who may be monitoring the list. Here is a link to a nice
carb heat set up made for the 912 which appears to run off warm coolant.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Carbureror Heater |
Bob: The HKS Bing 64/32 electric Carburetor Heat probe calls for a 5 amp
fuse in the circuit. If the voltage is 12V and the current is 5 amps, the
wattage will be 60 watts. Am I correct on this or am I missing something?
Also, another question to everyone about fuel tanks? Since there has been
leakage problems with the fiberglass wing tanks, what about the main belly
tank? Is it fiberglass, or is it an aluminum tank encased in fiberglass?
Hugh McKay
North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carbureror Heater |
Hugh,
You did not direct this to me but I'm answering anyway. Your math is
correct 5A x 12V = 60W but normally a fuse/CB is sized much larger than
the actual load on the circuit it is protecting. I've heard somewhere
that the HKS carb heater runs at only about 12 watts, which seems low
but may be enough if it runs continuously. If you get carb ice and then
try to clear it by turning on a 12 watt heater I think it would be too
little too late.
The belly tank is built up fiberglass, not a long cylindrical tube.
They are not comparable construction. We've had no leakage problems in
the belly tank of our Allegro which is 2 1/2 years old and about 350
hours use. '
Speaking of belly tanks, we finally got our quick-drain valve and will
install it soon.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 04/15/06 |
Hi Hugh and gang. In regards to the Allegro main fuel tank, I understand it
to be all fiberglass because they recommend draining the sump regularly when
new as it is common to see very small strands of fiberglass. With around 500
Allegros flying world wide, I am not aware of any main tanks leaking. Three
Allegros flying in NY State now and more comming. I heard there are over 40 now
in
the states.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 04/15/06 |
Bob,
Who has the third one in NY and where is it/he/she? It would be nice if
all Allegro flyers would add their names etc. to the !Frappr Allegro
site so we can see where everyone is. Please click on this link and add
your name etc.
http://www.frappr.com/allegro2000
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Allegro tire experiences |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
We've had more than one flat tire recently. We suspect that it was due to under
inflation but not certain. Have any of you Allegro operators had any flat tires
at all or slow leaks or any other tire related anomalies?
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29271#29271
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 04/17/06 |
Hi Guys, Paul Quinn flew his new Allegro up from Sanford Lee NC last week to
it's homebase at Freehold NY , at the base of the Catskill Mts. Paul has a
"private Glider" rating and all he needs is a "sign off" for "power" in able to
fly his Allegro.
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 04/17/06 |
Bob,
Great to hear of another Allegro in NY. Why not put your location and
his on http://www.frappr.com/allegro2000 map so we can all see where
the Allegros are located. This is a world wide map and I'd like to see
others put there locations too but so far only a handful have done so.
What is the reluctance?
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | alternitive engine |
| From: | "ray" <johnogr(at)dcsi.net.au> |
Hi all
Has anybody looked at putting an alterniyive engine in the Allegro,Jabiru,bmw
r1200 100hp, great plains vw engine,rotary,suzuki 100hp. Rotax are expensive.
Regards Ray
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30992#30992
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | door open or door off flight in Allegro? |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
It is warming up here in upstate New York and I'm thinking of flying the Allegro
w/ door open. I have a couple of questions in this regard:
1. What is the limiting speed is for door OPEN flight?
2. What is the limiting speed for door OFF flight?
3. Can the doors be opened and closed during flight, assuming below the limit speed,
or must the doors remain in either open or closed state after take-off?
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32026#32026
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
Cc: "Allegro 2000 List"
| Subject: | Door open flight |
Thom:
I find nothing in the Fantasy Air Allegro 2000 Flight and Operating Manual
that specifically addresses flying the Allegro with open doors. I do find on
page 26 of 37 under the section titled Operations to be done at the Hold
point, the statement that cockpit doors are to be closed and locked. This
tells me that one should not fly the Allegro with the doors open. Based on
the door open locking mechanism on the Allegro, I would not take off or fly
with the door in the open position. I would definitely be afraid of the
turbulance and vibration that would be created causing the latch mechanism
holding the door open to release allowing the door to then flap free in
the slip stream, which could damage and/or cause the door to warp and
possibly fail. I would not do it.
I do not know what would be the effect of flying the Allegro with the doors
off. Im sure it would be quite a thrill, but dont know enough about the
aerodynamics. My recommendatioins is to get the question answered by Fantasy
Air.
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door open flight |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Thanks, Hugh. I do not recall the source of this rumor, but what I heard was that
door OPEN flight is approved below 80 mph and no limit with the doors OFF,
but that with doors off, the cruise speed would suffer. I would think so! Besides
who wants to fly at 110+ mph with no doors on?
I'd like to take photos and videos without the doors but will check with the factory
or importer before attempting any form of open/off door flight.
Thom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32084#32084
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door open flight |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
I just got a reply from the USA importer, B Bar D Aviation. Following is what they
say about flying an Allegro with doors open/off.
Thom in Buffalo
Thom,
The Allegro MAY be flown with the doors open, but the MAXIMUM speed is 80mph.
You may open the doors in flight, but be aware you MUST hold the door tightly,
to prevent a rapid upswing into the wing. You may also close them in flight
(again, at a max speed of 80mph). when closing, you MUST hold the door firmly
to prevent a rapid upswing into the wing. You may take the doors off and fly
any speed the Allegro will safely fly. Please note: always check your doors
first to insure there is not too much "play" to allow the doors to "beat" against
the top of the wing when preparing to fly with the doors open. If this happens,
you will create a "mar" line horizontally across the window. So, have
fun, and enjoy the fresh warm air.
Thanks,
Doug & Betty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32262#32262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: door open or door off flight in Allegro? |
Hi Thom
I have often flown our Allegro with one door open. I open and close it in
flight, but keep the speed to 80 mph max. I have never opened both doors in
flight at the same time. I did try flying with both doors removed. There
was a lot of buffeting in the cockpit that made it unpleasent. Otherwise no
adverse effects.
Regards
Dave Grosvenor
DreamWings cc
Durban, South Africa
dave(at)dreamwings.co.za
www.dreamwings.co.za
----- Original Message -----
> Subject: Allegro-List: door open or door off flight in Allegro?
> From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
>
>
> It is warming up here in upstate New York and I'm thinking of flying the
> Allegro
> w/ door open. I have a couple of questions in this regard:
> 1. What is the limiting speed is for door OPEN flight?
> 2. What is the limiting speed for door OFF flight?
> 3. Can the doors be opened and closed during flight, assuming below the
> limit speed,
> or must the doors remain in either open or closed state after take-off?
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | drag polar and V speeds |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Does anyone have access to the drag polar for the Allegro? For those who don't
know, that is the graphical curve that illustrates the total drag of the aircraft
on the vertical Y-axis and the airspeed on the horizontal X-axis. A related
question: does anyone know the Vx and Vy airspeeds for the Allegro? I don't
recall seeing these numbers in the operators manual but I've heard that 70 mph
(61 knots) is Vy, but our Allegro gets a better rate of climb solo at around
75-80 mph IAS (about ~72 CAS). Since Vy decreases with weight Vy solo should be
lower than Vy at MTOW, which is what most manual use for the V speeds.
The reason behind the questions is that I want to try to see if I can find some
thermals tomorrow and get the Allegro to climb at idle power in a strong updraft
and stay in the updraft. In other words I want to see if the Allegro can be
soared a bit. The minimum sink rate speed would be helpful for this as well.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32372#32372
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul@AeroSiam" <Paul@aero-siam.com> |
| Subject: | Re: drag polar and V speeds |
Thom
I also recall 61 kts but I don't know where.
If you are going to do some flying at idle, what about using the VSI and GPS
to determine the speed for min sink and the glide ratio for max L/D? would
that work?
presumably, min sink should relate to Vx and best glide ratio to Vy. In my
book it says Vy is typically 1.4 stall speed which suggests 64 kts IAS or 60
CAS which seems about right.
It also says that a rule of thumb is that min sink rate is 0.75 of best
glide speed which gives 48 IAS or 45 CAS which seems low but I remember
from flying the 701 that Vx is just a few knots above stall speed.
"Since Vy decreases with weight..........." - don't you mean increases
with weight?
Regards
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:15 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: drag polar and V speeds
>
> Does anyone have access to the drag polar for the Allegro? For those who
> don't know, that is the graphical curve that illustrates the total drag of
> the aircraft on the vertical Y-axis and the airspeed on the horizontal
> X-axis. A related question: does anyone know the Vx and Vy airspeeds for
> the Allegro? I don't recall seeing these numbers in the operators manual
> but I've heard that 70 mph (61 knots) is Vy, but our Allegro gets a better
> rate of climb solo at around 75-80 mph IAS (about ~72 CAS). Since Vy
> decreases with weight Vy solo should be lower than Vy at MTOW, which is
> what most manual use for the V speeds.
>
> The reason behind the questions is that I want to try to see if I can find
> some thermals tomorrow and get the Allegro to climb at idle power in a
> strong updraft and stay in the updraft. In other words I want to see if
> the Allegro can be soared a bit. The minimum sink rate speed would be
> helpful for this as well.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32372#32372
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: drag polar and V speedsdrag polar and V speeds |
Paul,
I've done some glide and sink speed testing but it was mid day when the
thermals were active. To do this well it must be during very calm air,
which I'll do at some time. I guess that regardless of what the factory
says, the empirical testing should give me what I want to know. What I
meant by Vy varying with weight was that when flying solo, the Vy would
be less than when flying at MTOW which is the flight weight at which
the V speeds are normally reported. Yes, the Vy and Vx are proportional
to the square root of the flying weight.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: drag polar and V speedsdrag polar and V speeds |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Allegro-ers,
After extensive searching, I found what I was looking for and have attached three
files (graphs). These are empirical results of actual wind tunnel studies of
the SM701 airfoil, which was originally designed for a high performance sailplane.
No wonder it is difficult to get the Allegro to come down without slowing
down to the mushing region!
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32602#32602
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Paul of Aero-Siam asked me about my static rpm. I had not checked mine until this
morning. I'm running the 80 hp 912UL with 63" three-blade Woodcomp prop. This
morning my static rpm was 4,940 and the good brakes were able to hold it but
just barely. This was with no wind, a headwind would have increased the number
and a tail wind would have decreased the rpm. With this static rpm, the airplane
reaches 5,500 rpm with wide open throttle in flight.
I'm curious as to others' static rpm with various engine/prop combinations and
max engine rpm at wide open throttle in flight.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33488#33488
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | floatplane update |
Good morning gang, I spent the better part of last week at Sanford Lee Co.
airport in N.C. with Doug and Betty Hemstead, who heads up the
distributorship of the Allegro in the USA. The purpose was to invite dealers to
check out
the Allegro on an amphibious float setup. Dealers came from Florida, Indiana,
and New England. After addressing a high temp issue, by lowering the radiator
below the cowling to increase airflow, we headed to the lake. The principal
owner of the company and the factory test pilot did 8 TO & Ldgs on the lake and
when they beached to start demo flights they were kindly asked to leave by
the park director. Being a new activity, never seen on the lake, brought safety
concerns and they would need to look into this before allowing further
operations. They did allow one more take off and landing (with Tom-- Florida dealer)
jumping in, and then Lee (New England dealer) hopped in for the water taxi
and take off back to Sanford Lee airport. I later spent time in the pattern,
along with the Indiana dealer, doing T&L's on the hard surface.
The usefull load drops to 330 lbs + fuel with this configuration. Cruse
speed is around 90 mph. Climb around 4-500 fpm. If you look on the Full Lotus
web site and look in the amphibious and gallery section you will see that the
gear portion of this set up is VERY LIGHT. Meaning "fragile". It is basically
designed to allow the aircraft to taxi up a ramp out of the water at a
lakefront camp. Our landings were done with 1 flap position and power on to allow
a
gentile touch down and taxing was done very slow.
Two improvements are on order. First: a different design in main fuel tank
will allow more head room for pilot and passenger. Second: retractable shoulder
harness for pilot will be standard. (optional for passenger). This will allow
forward movement to reach choke and panel and will lock if needed, such as
some autos have.
Of the 30 certified LSA's in the USA, Allegro 2000 is # 2 in sales!!! There
is also a glass cockpit avaliable now too.
Hope you all have a great summer of flying!
Bob Griffin
LandLsportaviation.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: floatplane update |
Bob,
Thanks for the update and info on plans for some much needed changes.
The fuel tank won't us who already have airplanes much good but the
shoulder harness inertial reels should be easily retrofit.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | aircraft type designator |
Good morning guys, For those Allegro flyers that leave the pattern and go
places, you may have dealt with this if you requested "flight following". On
two occasions now, upon talking to ATC, they have asked for the "aircraft type
designator" as they are uncertain just what an Allegro is? we have said that it
is one of the new LSA. The last ATC said, "I'll just put it in as an
experimental". It falls into the category of (L1P), which means, land, 1 engine,
piston, but as of yet has not been assigned a designator. If your aircraft has
not yet been assigned a "type designator" you are supposed to say, "ZZZZ". Doug
and Betty Hemstead, tha distributor for Allegros in the US, has submitted the
information and forms to be assigned a type designator but this will be in
revue for at least 6 weeks. You can check out the web site for "ICAO", if you
want to look up more info of what I am talking about. Some of the new LSA have
been assigned "type designators" such as Tecnam, Sting, Kappa, Skyboy,
Parrot,, Mermaid, etc. So in the meantime, if you ask for "flight following "
or
file a flight plan, you can file as "ZZZZ".
fly safe
Bob Griffin
upstate NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aircraft type designator |
Thanks for the info., Bob. I've run into this and wondered when/how our
airplanes get this code.
Thom
Buffalo, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
During our annual inspection we found a 1" long squiggly crack in both
of the main gear legs, 4" from the fuselage. We ordered a new pair of
gear legs today for $850. I was told that there has been only one other
owner in the USA reporting cracked gear legs and it happened to them
twice and in the same location which was the same location as I ours.
It seems like a manufacturing or design defect to me, but Doug
Hempstead assured me that it was not but all have resulted from hard
landings. We have not had any hard landings, perhaps a few
not-so-smooth landings at near gross weight, but none that I would
classify as hard landings. However, since we bought ours used from a
dealer, it had been used as a demo plane and perhaps primary training,
but not sure.
WHAT TO LOOK FOR DURING PRE-FLIGHT INSPECTION:
On LEFT main gear leg the crack occurred 4" from the fuselage on the
FORWARD edge beginning at the mold line.
On RIGHT main gear leg the crack occurred 4" from the fuselage on the
AFT edge beginning at the mold line.
Attached photos shows the squiggly crack with the beginning and end
points marked by a pair of arrow heads.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
Thom: I would be interested in finding out what the delivery time is for
your new landing gear legs. What has Fantasy Air USA told you? I finally
received my new replacement aluminum wing tanks last week. Fantasy Air USA
shipped them to me from Sanford, NC. They arrived with the flanged ends
severely bent in three or four places around the circumference of the
flange. It looked like some one deliberately bent the flanges on both tanks.
I was shocked! I had to send them back. They were shipped by UPS from
Sanford, NC to my dealer in Morganton, NC. I had to wait 6 weeks to get them
after asking and asking for them to be shipped, and now I'm told by Fantasy
Air USA that I'll have to wait another six weeks to get another set. Earlier
they told me that they had the new aluminum tanks in stock. It is obvious
they do not have the tanks in stock. My fuselage is still sitting in Fantasy
Air's hanger waiting for them to install the BRS. It has been sitting there
for nine weeks along with the BRS chute. When I ask Fantasy Air USA to tell
me when they will have the BRS installed, I get no answer. I am really
frustrated with how I am being treated as a customer.
Hugh in NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:31 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: gear leg cracks
During our annual inspection we found a 1" long squiggly crack in both
of the main gear legs, 4" from the fuselage. We ordered a new pair of
gear legs today for $850. I was told that there has been only one other
owner in the USA reporting cracked gear legs and it happened to them
twice and in the same location which was the same location as I ours.
It seems like a manufacturing or design defect to me, but Doug
Hempstead assured me that it was not but all have resulted from hard
landings. We have not had any hard landings, perhaps a few
not-so-smooth landings at near gross weight, but none that I would
classify as hard landings. However, since we bought ours used from a
dealer, it had been used as a demo plane and perhaps primary training,
but not sure.
WHAT TO LOOK FOR DURING PRE-FLIGHT INSPECTION:
On LEFT main gear leg the crack occurred 4" from the fuselage on the
FORWARD edge beginning at the mold line.
On RIGHT main gear leg the crack occurred 4" from the fuselage on the
AFT edge beginning at the mold line.
Attached photos shows the squiggly crack with the beginning and end
points marked by a pair of arrow heads.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gear leg cracks |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Hugh,
I was told the gear legs were in stock so I ordered the gear legs on Thursday morning
and I received an email later in the day that the legs would be shipped
same day. I emailed back and asked for the UPS tracking number. Betty emailed
be a tracking number that I susequently tried to track but the UPS tracking system
said it was an invalid tracking number. I tried it again this morning and
UPS says it is enroute and on-time. I don't think UPS does real time tracking
number uploading into their tracking number system. FedEx does it real time;
as the package is labeled it is in the system.
As you know, customer support is very important in long term survival of any business
that has competition. It appears to me that the Hempsteads have been focusing
most of their early efforts on marketing and building a dealer network.
Bad press from customers will get their attention, I'm sure. Speaking of which,
I was hoping that they would participate in this forum, but the NY dealer specifically
asked them to and they saw no reason to do so. I think in time, they
will see that it would benefit them to be active in this forum, especially
if we can get most of the Allegro owners to do so.
We should continue to use this forum for keeping in touch with each other and discussing
issues that we could all benefit from knowing. Eventually, once the
word gets out and more people have questions about the Allegro, this forum will
become quite active. At least that is my hope.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=35351#35351
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gear leg cracks |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
My original post on this subject was done from the email list rather than the web
forum so the photo I attached was stripped out. I'll try posting it here again.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=35354#35354
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0130_1_7_272.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics BBS Forums |
Hello Listers,
I just wanted to send out a reminder to all of the Listers regarding the new-ish
BBS (Bulletin Board System) Forums that are available at Matronics for the Email
Lists. The BBS Forums give you Web-based access into the same email content
that is generated by the Email Lists. When an email message is posted to
any of the email lists, a copy of the message is also copied to the respective
List forum section on in the BBS Forums. By the same token, when a message is
posted within the BBS Forum interface context, it will also be posted to the
respective email list.
Basically, the BBS Forums give you yet another method of accessing the Matronics
Email List content. Some people prefer email, some prefer web forums; now you
can have it either way or both with the Matronics Lists!
You'll have to register for a login/password on the BBS Forum to _post_ from the
BBS, but you can view message content without registering for an account. To
Register for an account, look for the link at the top of the main BBS Forum
page entitled "Register". Click on it and follow the instructions. Site Administrator
approval will be required (to keep spammers out), but I will try to
get these approved in less than 24 hours.
If you haven't yet taken a look at the Matronics Email List content over on the
BBS Forum, surf on over and take a peek. Its pretty cool. The URL is:
http://forums.matronics.com
I want to stress that the BBS Forums are simply an adjunct to the existing Matronics
Email Lists; another way of viewing and interacting with the Matronics List
content. If you like Email, great. If you like Web Forums, great. If you
like both, great. Its up to you how you view and create your content.
You will also find a URL link at the bottom of this email called Matronics List
Features Navigator. You can click on this link at any time to find URL links
to all of the other great features available on the Matronics site like the Archive
Search Engine, List Browse, List Download, FAQs, Wiki, and lots more.
There is a specific Navigator for each Email List and the link for this specific
List is shown below.
Thanks for all the great list participation and support; it is greatly appreciated!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ray" <johnogr(at)dcsi.net.au> |
Hi all
Does any body know if there has been a Jabiru engine fitted to the Allegro
yet. I would prefere the lighter weight of the jabiru engine.
Ray
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=35959#35959
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Ours is a 912UL and don't know the answer to your question. You might want to ask
the factory or the importer of the country in which you live, if you don't
get the answer here.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36081#36081
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
Hi Ray, my understanding is that there are many Allegros in europe flying
with the Jabiru engine as power.
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Underwood, James" <JUnderwood(at)BBandT.com> |
I actually have the 912S in my Allegro. From what I have heard, the Jab is
harder to get serviced, so therefore the Rotax is the better alternative.
This could just be an opinion, but it might warrant looking into.
Jim Underwood
Re: Allegro-List: new engine
I actually have the 912S in my
Allegro. From what I have heard, the Jab is harder to get serviced, so
therefore the Rotax is the better alternative. This could just be an
opinion, but it might warrant looking into.
Jim Underwood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
I beleive the manufacturer did fit the Jab engine to aircraft used in
Europe, but cooling seems to be a problem for hotter regions. I think
the cowl would have to be redesigned to cater for an air cooled engine.
Here is the answer I got from Fantasy air some time ago...
----- Original Message -----
From: Sales@Fantasy Air.com
To: Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: Jabiru engine
Hello Dave,
We do fit the Jabiru engine to Scandinavian countries. It has very
bad reputation in hot countries, because of overheating problems etc.
We had to make some adjustments in engine installation to avoid the
overheating problems and it was fine, but still not in countries with
hot weather. Rotax engines are MUCH more reliable.
There is no price difference currently between Allegro with Rotax or
Jabiru.
So, we are sorry but we do not want to sell Allegros to South Africa
with Jabiru engine.
Kind regards,
Marcela and Josef
Dave Grosvenor
DreamWings
South Africa
> Subject: Allegro-List: new engine
> From: "ray" <johnogr(at)dcsi.net.au>
>
>
> Hi all
> Does any body know if there has been a Jabiru engine fitted to
the Allegro
> yet. I would prefere the lighter weight of the jabiru engine.
> Ray
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Gear Leg installation |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
This is an update on the new gear legs we received for our 2003 model Allegro.
The new gear legs are thicker by about 2.5 mm (1/10th inch) than the original gear
legs for this model Allegro. The factory says we have to remove .6 mm (.025")
form each of four surfaces to make the new gear legs fit the old model sockets
and avoid damaging the laminations. Taking it all off the legs might damage
the laminations. Sanding off the material from the new legs should be easy
enough but removing this much material from the socket areas on the fuselage is
going to be no fun at all. I'm also concerned about the upper surface of the
socket which appears to be pretty thin.
I do not know when the gear leg design was changed so I can't tell you which serial
numbers will require this factory approved modification. Our serial number
is #03-202 so the change happened some time after this.
I'll let everyone know how this goes once it is done.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36739#36739
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
Cc: "Michael Skolochenko"
| Subject: | Cracks in Main Landing Gear Legs of Thom Riddle's Allegro |
Guys:
I have looked at the photos sent by Thom and based on my knowledge (as a
structural engineer) of the flexing mechanism of the legs during landings
(hard or soft), the top portion of the legs at the point where the cracks
are located are put into compression upon impact of the wheels with the
landing surface (i.e. the legs flex outward putting the top surface of the
gear where the cracks are located in compression while the bottom surface is
put in tension). From the photographs the cracks look like classical fatigue
failure of FRP (Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic) material. The cracks appear
to be transverse cracks across the laminations, which is a classical failure
due to cyclic stress, even though I cannot fathom the number of landings it
would take to do this unless they were landings that were over stressing the
material each time.
I admit that I have not actually examined the legs or the cracks, but that
is what it appears to be. Thom, I would suggest you have the damage legs
examined by an expert in forensic analysis to give you a better professional
opinion of why the failure cracks are appearing. This may indeed be a design
flaw, or the result of severe landing impacts. Does anyone know if Fantasy
Air did cyclic loading of the landing gear, or just a static load test. If
you return the legs to Fantasy Air USA, I assure you, you will get no
meaningful answers from them.
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Stall Warning System |
Can anyone briefly explain to me the components of the Allegro 2000 stall
warning system? I am building a 2000 from the Quick-Build Kit and am to
install the stall warning system. I am obviously short some of the parts and
am having difficulty getting what ever the parts are from the US
Distributor. Basically I know that the pressure port on the leading edge of
the wing is connected via tubing to the special airspeed indicator through a
pressure switch in some manner. I also know that the type airspeed indicator
I have has an electrical connection on the back that is related to the stall
warning system. That is all that I know at this point. Can some one out
there help me in this? Do I have all the parts or not? A schematic one line
diagram showing how the system is connected indicating the separate parts
would save the day for me. Cant get any help from my Distributor or Dealer.
Help!
Hugh McKay
6009 South NC Hwy. 16
Maiden, NC 28650
hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning System |
Hugh,
Our Allegro has the stall warning system installed but we did not
install it. However, Frank Cuba, the dealer in Nebraska from whom we
bought ours did either a replacement or repair of the stall warning
system on our airplane just before we bought it. I'm sure he knows the
details of how it goes together and has always been helpful to us. I
would contact him and tell him I suggested it. He is on Matronics List
so you should be able to get his email there. If you don't find it, let
me know off list and I'll send you all his contact info.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gear leg cracks |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
IMPORTANT UPDATE ON GEAR LEG CRACKS.
Upon removal of old gear legs, to install new ones, we found that there was a crack
on the upper surface of each gear leg where it makes contact at the entrance
to the fuselage gear leg socket. I'm attaching a photo below showing this.
I ground down the small 1" crack and determined it was only skin deep (through
the gel-coat only) on both legs. However, the longer (all the way across the leg)
cracks were more than skin deep. They went at least through the first layer
of cloth.
THESE BIG CRACKS WERE NOT VISIBLE WITHOUT REMOVING THE GEAR LEG CLAMPING BRACKET
AND MOVING THE GEAR LEG AWAY FROM THE FUSELAGE !!!
Please look for cracks at this location during your inspection. I would also recomend
taking a measurement between the gear legs at the axle and occasionally
check this distance to detect some sag in gear before failure. This should be
done at the same weight on each check. We are now doing it with the main tank
full but no occupants. If this distance gets larger, it could be an early warning
of impending gear cracks or complete failure.
My Opinion as to cause:
It appears that when the gear leg flexes, the stresses are concentrated where the
leg enters the fuselage gear socket, partly because there is a relatively sharp
edge where they come into contact with each other. In my opinion, there should
be a gap at this point so the leg can flex some before coming into contact
with this relatively sharp edge.
I am not a structural engineer but a retired mechanical design engineer and this
looks like a problem area to me. I have an idea of how to fix this but won't
post it here because I don't want anyone thinking that I am redesigning the Allegro
and I don't want any liability for others actions based on my ideas. You
can blame the lawyers for this.
PLEASE INSPECT YOUR GEAR LEGS at the fuselage entrance point.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36970#36970
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/original_rt_gear_leg__cracked2_677.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Two New Email Lists at Matronics and Wiki Reminder! |
Dear Listers,
I have added two new email Lists to the Matronics Line up today. These include
a Continental engine List and a Lightning aircraft List:
===========
continental-list(at)matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Continental-List
Everything related to the Continental aircraft engine. Sky's the limit on discussions
here.
===========
===========
lightning-list(at)matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
This is an exciting new design from Arion Aircraft LLC in Shelbyville Tennessee. Pete Krotje has a very nice web site on the aircraft that can be found here: http://www.arionaircraft.com/
===========
Also, if you haven't checked out the new Matronics Aircraft Wiki, swing by and
have a look. Remember, a Wiki is only as good as the content that the members
put into it. Have a look over some of the sections, and if you've got some interesting
or useful, please add it to the Wiki! Its all about YOU! :-) The
URL for the Matronics Wiki is:
http://wiki.matronics.com
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Enclosure Support |
Dear Listers,
Over the years, I have resisted the urge to enable enclosure support on the Matronics
Lists for a number of reasons relating to performance, capacity, capability,
and security. However, its now 2006 and most everyone using email these
days is on an email client that, at some level, supports the viewing and handling
of enclosures. I get a fair amount of email each month from people on the
various Lists asking why their posts of this or that picture didn't go through.
Back quite a while ago by popular request, I enabled enclosure support for a few
Lists such as the RV10-List, Kolb-List, and the Tailwind-List. Contrary to
my fears, there really hasn't been any significant issues on these Lists relating
to the advent of enclosure support and for the most part, members have policed
themselves well with respect to the size of things they have posted.
Having enclosures enabled on some Lists and not others has given me a fair amount
of headaches with respect to filtering messages and content since the formats
are often quite different between a typical MIME encoded message and a generic
plain-text message. The spammers are getting more cleaver all the time and
are constantly trying to thwart my best efforts at keeping them from posting
to the Lists.
So, for these reasons, I've have decided to go ahead and enable limited enclosure
posting on all of the email Lists at Matronics. This will not only increase
the utility of the Lists, but will afford me a better opportunity to filter
out the chaff.
Here are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the
Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of
the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
jpg, bmp, gif, txt, xls, pdf, and doc
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could
result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS!
I hope everyone will enjoy the added functionality of enclosures. Please police
yourself and use good judgement when posting messages with enclosures using
the guidelines I've outlined above.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | louis buckley <lbuckley122(at)comcast.net> |
With the allegro rather low VNE of 137, which is the best choice in
engines ... the 80 or the 100 hp Rotax? If you were building a kit
version would anyone consider the Jabiru series of engines. The 2200 is
essentially the same weight as the Rotax. Of course , the cowling looks
tight on the Rotax and making the Jabiru work might be quite painful.
What do you all think. In those with experience is the 80 hp Rotax
perfect or do you wish you had gone with the 100 hp in retrospect.
Thanks,
Lou
CT, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | ANOTHER broken exhaust tube |
This pertains to the older (not stainless steel) exhaust system on the
Allegro 2000 w/ 912 series engines.
The #3 exhaust tube broke near the upper weld at the bottom of the
elbow a bit below the EGT thermocouple, in less than 50 hours after
replacing this part due to it happening before. We welded up this break
and it happened again in less than 50 hours. We decided to support this
side of the heavy muffler to reduce or eliminate the vibrations that
were leading to this endemic failure. Less than 10 hour after that, the
#4 exhaust tube broke in the identical place. It appears that the
stresses we relieved by better supporting the #3 side moved to the #4
side. Law of Unintended Consequences is alive and well.
This is obviously a faulty design or more likely wrong use of materials
which succumb to vibrations too easily. The welder that did the repairs
said he had never welded this type of steel before and suspects it was
some sort of spring steel which he had never seen used in an exhaust
system before.
Fortunately, as most of you who have bought newer Allegros know, a
newer stainless steel exhaust system is not standard on the Allegro.
After having replaced both landing gear legs we had hoped to avoid
having to replace the exhaust system too but we have no choice at this
point.
I hope that the stainless steel system will solve this problem. Have
any of you had this sort of problem with the stainless steel system?
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Underwood, James" <JUnderwood(at)bbandt.com> |
I actually picked the 100HP Rotax for mine, and have no regrets at the
moment. I would like to be able to put 87 octane in the tank, but 93 is
still cheaper than AvGas. The power is nice with the 100. Take off's happen
before you know it, even with a big passenger. I've heard that servicing the
Jabiru's are harder, but I can't say that from experience. I like my 100.
Cruise around at 4300 to 4400 RPM at a little over 100MPH. Flew about 150
miles Sunday, and used about 5 gallons of fuel, in 1 1/2 hours. Not too bad.
Jim Underwood
919-761-4323
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of louis buckley
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:04 AM
-->
With the allegro rather low VNE of 137, which is the best choice in engines
... the 80 or the 100 hp Rotax? If you were building a kit version would
anyone consider the Jabiru series of engines. The 2200 is essentially the
same weight as the Rotax. Of course , the cowling looks tight on the Rotax
and making the Jabiru work might be quite painful.
What do you all think. In those with experience is the 80 hp Rotax perfect
or do you wish you had gone with the 100 hp in retrospect.
Thanks,
Lou
CT, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine choices |
Lou,
When we bought our Allegro, I specifically wanted the 80 hp Rotax 912
engine, for the following reasons:
- Low compression engine requires only 87 octane autogas - ~20-30 cents
/ gallon cheaper than 91+ octane
- 4 gallons per hour consumption at 75% power vs. 5 gph for the 100 hp
version
- Still cruises as fast as a Cessna 152
- About 6 1/2 lb. lighter installed weight
- Solo at standard conditions it gets 1100 fpm climb rate with the prop
pitched for best cruise.
- Climbs better than a Cessna 152 at full gross with prop pitched for
best cruise.
- Can operate from 1,000' grass field in this part of the country.
- ~$2,000 remains in your pocket - enough to pay for transponder and
other goodies.
At the current price of $3.12/ gallon of 87 octane vs. $2.87/gallon
for 93 octane and 5 gph vs 4 gph, the fuel cost per hour at 75% cruise
power is 35% higher (over $4/hour) for about 8-9 mph extra speed. Not
worth it in my book, especially since we spend most of our flying hours
at 55-65% power, sight seeing.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ANOTHER broken exhaust tube |
Ooops!!
It appears I said "... is not standard" when I meant to type ".... is
NOW standard". Sorry for the typo.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine choices |
Hi Lou, I have flown 5 Allegros in NC and our demo plane. Some 80 and others
100 hp. The 80 hp performs very well. I would consider the 100 hp if towing or
putting floats on it.
Bob Griffin
upstate NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Oil - Type and Brands |
Gentlemen:
I am interested in knowing what type and brand lubrication oils are being
used in the Rotax 912UL engine by various Allegro 2000 owners. Also if you
have had any problems where you have changed type and brand of oil.
Hugh McKay
Maiden, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike skolochenko" <dawnflyer44(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Oil - Type and Brands |
Hugh,
I have stayed with Mobil 1 MX4T motorcycle oil and have enjoyed a smooth,
cool running engine. No complaints.
Mike
>From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Allegro-List: Engine Oil - Type and Brands
>Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:59:35 -0500
>
>Gentlemen:
>I am interested in knowing what type and brand lubrication oils are being
>used in the Rotax 912UL engine by various Allegro 2000 owners. Also if you
>have had any problems where you have changed type and brand of oil.
>
>Hugh McKay
>Maiden, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Oil - Type and Brands |
Hugh and gang, with only 50 hrs on our Allegro, we don't have much of a
track record but we elected to use the oil formulated specifically for the 912
engine and gear box and sold by California Power Systems. I think they call it
(AV9). It is a semi synthetic and fits our flying personality as we burn auto
and av gas.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
near Albany NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Oil - Type and Brands |
Hugh,
The Rotax Owners website http://www.rotax-owner.com/ has a
comprehensive on-line library of service documentation for Rotax
engines. Among the hundreds of documents is one or more about proper
oils for the 912 series engines. There are three main things Rotax is
concerned about in oil for the 912 series engines.
1) The oil must have Gear Additives because the prop speed reducing
gear box uses the same oil as the engine. Because many 4 stroke
motorcycles have a similar arrangement some of the oils made for them
are suitable for the 912 series engines.
2) The oil must NOT have Friction Modifiers because the gear box has a
clutch.
3) If using 100LL Avgas more 30% of the time or more, the oil must NOT
be 100% synthetic because of the lead in Avgas.
I've been using a semi-synthetic oil sold by California Power Systems
designed specifically for the Rotax called AV-9 but will be switching
to Pennzoil Motorcycle oil w/ gear addititives(semi-synthetic) as soon
as my current case is used up. The AV-9 if fine oil but the shipping
cost from California is over $30 and I can get the Pennzoil from a
local distributer at about the same cost w/o the shipping charge. I
know some Rotax owners use a Fram equivalent oil filter (don't recall
the number) but I always buy Rotax brand filter. That is one thing I do
not want to gamble with. Also, I use semi-synthetic because we do fly
x-country sometimes where autogas in not available and in my opinion,
with any use of 100LL at all, the semi-synthetic is better.
You might want to consider subscribing to the Matronics Rotax Engine
list.
Attached is a list of Rotax approved oils I got from one of their
service bulletins.
Thom in Buffalo
Best Oils for Rotax 912/914 engines
Semi-Synthetic
Highly Recommended
Shell Advance VSX 4 APISG SAE 10W-40 Motorcylce w/ Gear Additives
Shell Advance VSX 4 APISG SAE 15W-50 Motorcylce w/ Gear Additives
Pennzoil Motorcycle Motor Oil APISH SAE 20W-50 Motorcycle w/ Gear
Addititives
Yacco MVX 500 Synthetic APISJ SAE 10W-40 Motorcylce w/ Gear Additives
Yacco MVX 500 Synthetic APISJ SAE 15W-50 Motorcylce w/ Gear Additives
Recommended
Shell Formula Shell Synthetic Blend APISJ SAE 10W-30
Valvoline DuraBlend Synthetic APISJ SAE 10W-40
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Oil - Type and Brands |
Hugh,
The Rotax Owners website http://www.rotax-owner.com/ has a
comprehensive on-line library of service documentation for Rotax
engines. Among the hundreds of documents is one or more about proper
oils for the 912 series engines. There are three main things Rotax is
concerned about in oil for the 912 series engines.
1) The oil must have Gear Additives because the prop speed reducing
gear box uses the same oil as the engine. Because many 4 stroke
motorcycles have a similar arrangement some of the oils made for them
are suitable for the 912 series engines.
2) The oil must NOT have Friction Modifiers because the gear box has a
clutch.
3) If using 100LL Avgas more 30% of the time or more, the oil must NOT
be 100% synthetic because of the lead in Avgas.
I've been using a semi-synthetic oil sold by California Power Systems
designed specifically for the Rotax called AV-9 but will be switching
to Pennzoil Motorcycle oil w/ gear addititives(semi-synthetic) as soon
as my current case is used up. The AV-9 if fine oil but the shipping
cost from California is over $30 and I can get the Pennzoil from a
local distributer at about the same cost w/o the shipping charge. I
know some Rotax owners use a Fram equivalent oil filter (don't recall
the number) but I always buy Rotax brand filter. That is one thing I do
not want to gamble with. Also, I use semi-synthetic because we do fly
x-country sometimes where autogas in not available and in my opinion,
with any use of 100LL at all, the semi-synthetic is better.
Following is a list of Rotax approved oils I got from one of the Rotax
service bulletins.
Best Oils for Rotax 912/914 engines
HIGHLY Recommended
Shell Advance VSX 4 APISG SAE 10W-40 Motorcylce w/ Gear Additives
Shell Advance VSX 4 APISG SAE 15W-50 Motorcylce w/ Gear Additives
Pennzoil Motorcycle Motor Oil APISH SAE 20W-50 Motorcycle w/ Gear
Addititives
Yacco MVX 500 Synthetic APISJ SAE 10W-40 Motorcylce w/ Gear Additives
Yacco MVX 500 Synthetic APISJ SAE 15W-50 Motorcylce w/ Gear Additives
Recommended
Shell Formula Shell Synthetic Blend APISJ SAE 10W-30
Valvoline DuraBlend Synthetic APISJ SAE 10W-40
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ray" <johnogr(at)dcsi.net.au> |
Hi all
Has anybody purchased and assembled a kit, did you have any problems.
Ray
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44301#44301
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Rotax Tachometer - Wiring |
Gentlemen:
I am connecting the Rotax supplied electric tachometer to my Rotax 912UL
engine that is in my Allegro 2000. I am confused about what I see on the
electrical wiring diagram from the Rotax engine manual relative to the
tachometer. The manual shows two wires coming from the engine (a blue, and a
white) with a connector plug on the end. These wires came already connected
to the engine. It also shows a mating connector plug with two wires leading
to the tachometer. All this is fine except my tachometer has three
connection points on the back numbered 1, 2, and 3. How do I make these
connections? Which connects to what? Im really confused. Ive emailed
Rotax, but have gotten no reply. Help Guys!
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Tachometer - Wiring |
My guess is its an Aviasport tacho. The left top pin on the instrument
(looking from behind) is connected to +12V. The right top pin is connected
to Ground and one of the two wires coming from the engine - it doesn't
matter which one). The lower centre pin is connected to the other wire from
the engine. http://www.aviasport.com/Ingles/Tachometer/912.htm
Hope this helps.
Dave Grosvenor
>
>
> From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Allegro-List: Rotax Tachometer - Wiring
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> I am connecting the Rotax supplied electric tachometer to my Rotax 912UL
> engine that is in my Allegro 2000. I am confused about what I see on the
> electrical wiring diagram from the Rotax engine manual relative to the
> tachometer. The manual shows two wires coming from the engine (a blue, and
> a
> white) with a connector plug on the end. These wires came already
> connected
> to the engine. It also shows a mating connector plug with two wires
> leading
> to the tachometer. All this is fine except my tachometer has three
> connection points on the back numbered 1, 2, and 3. How do I make these
> connections? Which connects to what? Im really confused. Ive emailed
> Rotax, but have gotten no reply. Help Guys!
>
> Hugh McKay
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Rotax Tachometer - Wiring |
Dave: My tach is not an Aviasport tach. There is a label on the instrument
"Teveso, Hradec Kra'love'. I suspect it is a Czech instrument, but I'm not
sure. Are the connections the same as stated in your earlier email?
Hugh
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
Grosvenor - DreamWings
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 3:36 PM
My guess is its an Aviasport tacho. The left top pin on the instrument
(looking from behind) is connected to +12V. The right top pin is connected
to Ground and one of the two wires coming from the engine - it doesn't
matter which one). The lower centre pin is connected to the other wire from
the engine. http://www.aviasport.com/Ingles/Tachometer/912.htm
Hope this helps.
Dave Grosvenor
>
>
> From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Allegro-List: Rotax Tachometer - Wiring
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> I am connecting the Rotax supplied electric tachometer to my Rotax 912UL
> engine that is in my Allegro 2000. I am confused about what I see on the
> electrical wiring diagram from the Rotax engine manual relative to the
> tachometer. The manual shows two wires coming from the engine (a blue, and
> a
> white) with a connector plug on the end. These wires came already
> connected
> to the engine. It also shows a mating connector plug with two wires
> leading
> to the tachometer. All this is fine except my tachometer has three
> connection points on the back numbered 1, 2, and 3. How do I make these
> connections? Which connects to what? Im really confused. Ive emailed
> Rotax, but have gotten no reply. Help Guys!
>
> Hugh McKay
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Rotax Tachometer - Wiring |
Teveso appear to be the Rotax agents in Czech. The back of the instrument
you have has the same markings as the Aviasport I installed. I also know
that Aviasport produce rpm gauges for different companies and put different
lables on them. You can either give it a try with the wiring as I suggested
or try to contact Teveso for more info. Their website is
http://www.teveso.cz/ and email address motory@teveso.cz.
Dave
>
>
> From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: Allegro-List: Rotax Tachometer - Wiring
>
>
>
> Dave: My tach is not an Aviasport tach. There is a label on the instrument
> "Teveso, Hradec Kra'love'. I suspect it is a Czech instrument, but I'm not
> sure. Are the connections the same as stated in your earlier email?
>
> Hugh
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Initial Setting of Prop Pitch |
Gentlemen: I will soon be attaching the prop to my Allegro 2000 (built from
the Kit) for the first time. Since I have never done this before I need some
advice and guidance. Here is what I have:
Plane Allegro 2000
Engine Rotax 912UL
Gear Box Ratio 2.2727/1
Prop WoodComp (3 blade),
Type Klassic 160/3/R
Diameter 1600 mm/ 63 inches
Max prop rpm 2700 rpm
The WoodComp instruction booklet (second page) gives a general description
of setting the prop pitch. I have a Warp Drive Propeller protractor to set
the pitch in degrees. I need to know what would be the optimum degree of
pitch for good cruise speed. There are various opinions (11, 13 15.5, I
understand Bob Griffin operates his Allegro at prop pitch of 20.5)
concerning this, so I would appreciate input from those of you with
experience in this area.
The WoodComp instructions also state that during the test run the rpm (I
assume this is the engine rpm) at full throttle must be 6% less than maximum
engine allowed rpm (i.e. 5452 rpm if max allowed rpm is 5800). This would
give a propeller rpm of 2399. This is well below the max of 2700 rpm. At the
max engine rpm of 5800 the prop rpm would be 2552 rpm, still well below the
max prop rpm of 2700. Since the carbs on the Rotax engine are spring loaded
and set at the factory at full opening (full throttle), I assume this
setting gives the 5800 max rpm. Am I correct? If so, how do I set the
throttle to never exceed the 5452 rpm (6% less than max rpm) or is this
number just a conservative number to assure never exceeding the engine rpm,
and propeller rpm? I can set the throttle stop on the Allegro at the max
throttle opening easy enough, but dont know how to get the 5452 rpm
setting. I am somewhat confused on all of this.
If some one has the time I would appreciate a step-by-step procedure on how
to do this for the Allegro and, Rotax Engine.
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 07/15/06 |
Hugh, the Allegro on our field , with the 80 hp was set at 20* on the prop.
The factory mechanics in NC recommended we set it to 17*, which we have done.
The plane is performing alot better. I can't share rpm's with you because we
are questioning the readings on the analog rpm guage. We bought a prop tach and
will check the guage today. Our 100 hp Allegro remains at 20.5* and climbs out
at 4790 (1000fpm) and we cruise around 4750 rpm at 120 mph.
fly safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial Setting of Prop Pitch |
Hugh,
We have the same engine/prop combination so the numbers I give you
should be pretty close and certainly good enough as a starting point.
You do NOT ADJUST carburetor throttle stops for cruise rpm settings.
The carburetors should be adjusted so that wide open throttle position
gives you wide open throttle valve in carbs. Don't mess with the carbs.
Our prop is set for best cruise at low altitudes (5,000' DA or less)
since that is where we spend most of our flight time. This gives us
5,500 rpm (max continuous rpm) at wide open throttle in straight and
level flight. To achieve this, our static rpm on the ground at wide
open throttle is around 4900 rpm in calm air. If you do this check with
a head wind the rpm will be higher than this. At this prop setting we
are sacrificing some climb rate but it is still good enough for us.
We have not adjusted our prop since we are happy with the performance
as it is currently set which is the way we got it when we bought the
demo airplane. If you want better climb performance I would still limit
the max. straight and level flight rpm at wide open throttle to 5800
rpm. This will improve the climb performance but reduce the cruise
speed at low DA and increase fuel consumption at a given airspeed.
Typically prop pitch is measured at a point 75% of prop radius from the
prop shaft. On our prop, that is at 23 5/8" from the center or 7 7/8"
from the tip. At this location, I think our prop is set at about 23.5
degrees. I say "I think" only because this is what it calculates out to
be at 80% prop efficiency. We don't have a prop protractor so I don't
really know.
I would set it at this and then tie the airplane securely with chocks
and warm up the engine thoroughly and do a full rpm static test to see
what rpm you are getting in calm air (or close to it) at wide open
throttle. If you are getting somewhere between 4900-5100 rpm, this is
good enough for a test flight. I would not attempt to fly it with less
than about 4,800 rpm static or more than 5200 rpm. Once you are in the
air you can do wide-open-throttle tests to see what rpm you get. This
is the ultimate test and the only one that matters in my opinion. You
have to decide whether you want max climb, max cruise, or some
compromise between the two. Please note that a one degree change in
prop angle makes a pretty big difference in performance and max. rpm. I
would adjust by no more than 1/2 degree at a time and make sure all
three blades are as close to identical as possible. This is important.
I hope this helps, Let me know if you have more questions.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial Setting of Prop Pitch |
Hugh,
I forgot to mention that the prop manufacturer's max rpm rating is a
safety limitation they set for this prop regardless of what engine it
is used on. As long as their limiting rpm is greater than the
engine/gearbox will produce, you can ignore that 2,700 rpm number. It
has no bearing on prop adjustment with our engine/prop combination.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro 2000 - Rotax 912UL Engine |
Ray: Hope you are progressing with your Allegro assemble. I have two
questions to ask you, the answers of which would be helpful to me. The first
is did you get the stall warning system for your plane? If you did could you
look on the buzzer/horn device to see if you can determine who the
manufacturer is. If so please email me the name and/or address.
The other question is did you notice one or two orifice restrictor inserts
in the neck-T-5 fuel distributor (i.e. the five pronged device where all the
fuel lines connect)? I notice in the Rotax Engine Installation Manual they
only mention one orifice, and it is in the line going back to the main fuel
tank. The Allegro manual on page 89 shows only one also. My neck-T-5 fuel
distributor had two orifices already in the distributor. What did yours
have?
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 - Rotax 912UL Engine |
Hugh,
I know you did not address this to me and I can't answer your question
about the stall warning but I can tell you something about the five
point fuel distribution block. There is only one tiny restrictor
orifice in mine and it is in the branch that goes to the fuel pressure
gauge. The purpose of this is to restrict flow to an absolute minimum
in case this fuel line ruptures. If a fuel line going into the cockpit
ruptures and you don't have this restrictor, the cabin could be flooded
with fuel. A very hazardous condition. This pressure gauge does not
need flow but only pressure to do its job and restrictors in
pressurized fuel lines that go to the cabin are standard on GA
aircraft.
If I remember correctly, your airplane has the aux. fuel tanks. Ours
does not, so I don't know how the extra fuel lines are plumbed. I know
that you do NOT want a restrictor in a fuel SUPPLY line as it would
starve the carburetors. I would ask Doug at B Bar D about where the
second restrictor is supposed to be. It may have been installed in the
distribution block by mistake.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hgmckay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 - Rotax 912UL Engine |
Thom: I did ask Doug Hempsted about the two restrictor orifices. His reply was
that both are are required. he did not explain why, but based on your explanation
two would apply in my case because there are two fuel lines coming back into
the cockpit. One being the fuel pressure gauge, the other the fuel return line
to the main fuel tank (see the Rotax engine installation manual page 38 of
66).
On another topic, (Static rpm test), can I safely do this test with the wings off
the plane? As you know I do have wing tanks, but I am waiting on the new replacement
aluminum tanks so I don't want to put the wings on and then have to
take them off again to insert and attach the wing tanks. I would connect all the
fuel lines in the cockpit, but cut off the fuel lines going to the wing tanks
with their respective cut-off valves at the two side cover sheets adjacent
to the root of each wing. Any comments about this test without the wings on?
Hugh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48596#48596
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 - Rotax 912UL Engine |
Hugh,
I see no problem with doing static run-up w/o wings. Not much chance of it getting
airborne that way :-). As long as you do the fuel line configuration as you
stated, the engine won't care and the fuel won't be flying out all over the
place. It should go without saying but it does not hurt to remind you to make
sure the airframe is well secured before doing a full throttle static run-up.
If you are doing carb idle speed adjustments in the process, make sure the engine
is up to normal operating temperature(190F min) before doing so. You may not
be able to finalize the idle speed until after you've flown it. The idle speed
at 120F can be 200-300 rpm different than at 190F or higher. At higher oil
temps, the idle speed is higher.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48647#48647
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | carpet wear on top of main fuel tank |
Since we have the oldest Allegro in the USA (400+ hours), I guess we are finding
things before others with newer airplanes. Here is one that you can easily prevent.
Problem
The rivets on the seat bottom that hold the seat support web/straps to the fiberglass
seat shell extend downward well below the straps and bear on the carpet
on top of the main fuel tank. With time, these rivet protrusions rub holes through
the carpet and would eventually rub a hole in the fuel tank top.
Our Solution
We cut strips of outdoor carpeting about three inches wide and glued them in place
over the web/straps to cover the rivet protrusions. Eventually, the rivets
will rub through the carpet strips but the thickness is such that the carpet
will keep them from doing any more damage to the tank top carpet and the tank
top itself. I suppose we could cut small holes in the carpet strips around the
rivets but we did not.
There are probably other more elegant solutions but this was cheap, simple and
effective.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49720#49720
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Carpet in the bottom of the Allegro? |
Anyone:
I am trying to get someone, even my distributor, (unfortunately they are of
no help) to explain and tell me where a piece of carpet that is marked on
the back with a large oval and two dashed lines marked cut (denoted by
symbolic sizzors) goes? I am sending some photos of this to the matronics
photo share site, and they should post them to each of you. I believe this
piece of carpet may be for the bottom of the fuselage under the seats and
under the front floorboard. Some owners have told me that they do not have
carpet under the seats, and others have told me they do not have a front
floorboard! There are no instructions in the Allegro assembly manual
explaining how to cut the carpet material and only some limited photographs.
I am really confused as to where this piece of carpet goes. Can anyone help
me?
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Carpet in the bottom of the Allegro? |
Hugh
Is it not for the rear wall of the baggage compartment?
Dave
> From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Allegro-List: Carpet in the bottom of the Allegro?
>
> Anyone:
> I am trying to get someone, even my distributor, (unfortunately they are
> of
> no help) to explain and tell me where a piece of carpet that is marked on
> the back with a large oval and two dashed lines marked cut (denoted by
> symbolic sizzors) goes? I am sending some photos of this to the matronics
> photo share site, and they should post them to each of you. I believe this
> piece of carpet may be for the bottom of the fuselage under the seats and
> under the front floorboard. Some owners have told me that they do not have
> carpet under the seats, and others have told me they do not have a front
> floorboard! There are no instructions in the Allegro assembly manual
> explaining how to cut the carpet material and only some limited
> photographs.
> I am really confused as to where this piece of carpet goes. Can anyone
> help
> me?
>
> Hugh McKay
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carpet in the bottom of the Allegro? |
Hugh,
Since ours is factory built I did not have that problem. BUT because it
was factory built I think I can help a bit.
I can't see how anyone could not have the floorboard which is fitted
forward of the main tank, and is covered with a carpet. It is what the
heels of your feet sit on with the balls of the feet on the rudder. How
could someone not have this?
The carpet that goes over the tank and aft toward the bulkhead, has two
openings cut into it for the gear leg structure. The cuts are along the
lateral axis of the airplane (across the fuselage). Once cut on each
side of the gear leg structural support areas so that the carpet will
fit on the bottom of the fuselage both forward and aft of the gear leg
structure.
Ours is not cut all the way across but rather has two "flaps" cut into
it, one for each side of the raised gear leg area. If you will look on
the Allegro Forum at an old posting titled "Seat abrading main gear
structure - ALERT" my post of Feb 4 has a photo attached that
illustrates how the gear leg structure sticks up above the carpet. The
carpet is cut in that area to allow for this.
I hope this helps.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hgmckay" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carpet in the bottom of the Allegro? |
Guys:
Thanks for all the help. I finally bit the bullet and used some common sense (at
least I think that is what it was) and started measuring and cut my own pattern.
It worked fine. The markings on the back of the carpet for the cutout for
the areas where the main gear sriffeners are located were out of proportion and
way too far apart. Another black mark for the quality of information and instruction
you get from Fantasy Air regarding the Quik Build Kit. I'm well on
the way to finishing this upholstering job. Believe me, this is the first and
last one (upholstering) I am going to do.
Dave, no it is not for the back bulkhead. I already have that carpet installed.
Guys, don't quit your day jobs to go into the upholstering business!!
Hugh McKay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50242#50242
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [ Hugh G. McKay III ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Hugh G. McKay III
Lists: Allegro-List
Subject: Carpet in the bottom of the Allegro
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/hgmckay@bellsouth.net.07.30.2006/index.html
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Email List Web Server Upgrade Tonight... |
Dear Listers,
This evening I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server hardware to a new Quad-processor
2.8Ghz Xeon system (yes, 4-physical CPUs!) with an Ultra 320 SCSI
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As with the older system, the new system will be running the latest version of
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for me to fully make the transition, although it could be considerable less
if everything goes according to plan.
The Matronics Webserver will be *UNavailable* from the Internet during the work,
and you will receive a time-out if you try to connect during the upgrade.
Email List Distribution will be *available* during the upgrade of the Web Server,
and List message distribution will function as normal.
This represents a significant performance upgrade for the Matronics Web Server
and you should notice nicely improved searching and surfing performance following
the upgrade!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Initial filling of hydraulic brakes with fluid |
Allegro 2000 Team:
Since I have received no instructions from the manufacturer as to the proper
method of initial filling the hydraulic brake system and bleeding the lines,
I am again coming to you guys for help. Can anyone walk me through the
correct procedure?
Hugh Mckay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial filling of hydraulic brakes with fluid |
Hugh,
Buy a brake bleeding kit from an auto parts store and follow the
instructions that should come with it. If no instructions, check out
any of the following links for tips on how to do this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_bleeding
http://www.carcentral.net/content/guides/HowToBleedABrakeSystem.php
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-technical-articles/bleeding-
motorcycle-brakes/bleeding-motorcycle-brakes.htm
http://www.scooterhelp.com/genmaintain/brake.bleed.html
None of these are specifically for an Allegro brake system, but all
hydraulic brakes work the same way.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Cabin Throttle Lever/ Bowen Cable Connection |
As many of you know by now I am trying to finish my Allegro 2000 Kit. Among
many small details that I have been unable to get help from my Distributor
(i.e. its a kit, you figure it out), one is the following question
concerning how to connect the throttle cable to the throttle lever clevis.
The cabin throttle lever has a metal clevis that is connected to the lever
and swivels as the lever is moved. This clevis has a small hole in it for
the cable to pass through. I have nothing to connect the cable to the
clevis. Could some one look at their connection and explain how this is
done. A close-up photograph would be very helpful. If your plane was
purchased ready-to-fly you probably did not have to make this connection. I
simply dont have any parts for this and I need some direction.
This may not be my last request for help in these small matters. All of your
past advice and help is deeply appreciated. If I didnt have you guys (The
Matronics Allegro-List) I would be in deep yogurt. Many thanks!
Hugh McKay
In the deep south where it is Hot!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Throttle Lever/ Bowen Cable Connection |
Hugh,
I'm going to fly our Allegro for my BFR today. While at the hangar I'll
try to get a couple close-up photos of this are and post them this
evening.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Throttle Lever/ Bowen Cable Connection |
Hi Hugh, I don't have a picture but if I remember correctly the throttle
cable has a stop swaged onto the one end. The other end of the cable gets
pushed through the hole, fed through the cable outer and onto the throttle
lever on the carb. The throttle lever on the carb has a spring pulling it
to the open position, and this maintains tension on the cable. So when you
open the throttle, the cable gets pulled forward by the spring on the
throttle arm on the carb. When you close the throttle, the swaged stop
can't go through the clevis and the cable is pulled back.
Regards
Dave
> From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Allegro-List: Cabin Throttle Lever/ Bowen Cable Connection
>
> As many of you know by now I am trying to finish my Allegro 2000 Kit.
> Among
> many small details that I have been unable to get help from my Distributor
> (i.e. its a kit, you figure it out), one is the following question
> concerning how to connect the throttle cable to the throttle lever clevis.
>
> The cabin throttle lever has a metal clevis that is connected to the lever
> and swivels as the lever is moved. This clevis has a small hole in it for
> the cable to pass through. I have nothing to connect the cable to the
> clevis. Could some one look at their connection and explain how this is
> done. A close-up photograph would be very helpful. If your plane was
> purchased ready-to-fly you probably did not have to make this connection.
> I
> simply dont have any parts for this and I need some direction.
>
> This may not be my last request for help in these small matters. All of
> your
> past advice and help is deeply appreciated. If I didnt have you guys (The
> Matronics Allegro-List) I would be in deep yogurt. Many thanks!
>
> Hugh McKay
> In the deep south where it is Hot!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Throttle Lever/ Bowen Cable Connection |
Hugh,
Here are a couple photos I took of what Dave described.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52716#52716
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/allegro_throttle_side_182.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/allegro_throttle_top_244.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | fuselage "white" color - darkening? |
Attached is a photo taken yesterday of the aft fuselage with a white plastic garbage
bag next to it for color comparison. It appears that the "white" of the
fuselage is darkening a bit over time.
Anyone else see this happening?
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52717#52717
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00150_210.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Strange behavior |
During my BFR yesterday, the CFI put the Allegro into trimmed steady state flight
at about 80 mph IAS. Then he banked to the left about 45 degrees and neutralized
the ailerons and said "We are simulating a locked joystick condition, i.e.,
no elevator or aileron controls, only rudder and throttle. Get us safely out
of this unusual attitude." I left the throttle alone and eased in right rudder
and the Allegro resumed straight and level flight without too much adverse
yaw or other anomalies.
Then the CFI did the same thing with a right bank. Now comes the interesting Allegro
response. I eased in left rudder and it pitched slightly up with the yaw
and then abruptly went very sharply nose down, not just a little bit but in
steep dive angle. I caught it with the elevator and we both looked at each other
with the obvious question marks on our faces that said "WTF__K was that?" We
did it again from the right bank of about 45 degrees and this time I added the
rudder more slowly still but at some point of yaw, the same abrupt and severe
nose drop occurred which I caught again with the elevator. We tried it again
from a left bank, and as before, nothing unseemly happened.
What follows is my analysis of what was happening. I am no aerodynamicist so this
is just my best guess. In any case, whatever the cause, all Allegro pilots
should be aware of this.
Rudder only, by its very nature, is an uncoordinated maneuver. When in a steep
right bank and left rudder is added, the airplane begins to slip (high rudder,
no aileron). Remember that we were flying fairly slowly around 80 mph IAS and
the nose was pitched up and was also yawed left, thus allowing the higher (left)
wing and fuselage to block flow to the horizontal stabilizer. Insufficient
airflow over the elevator allowed the elevator to fall and the nose to pitch
down. Note that it takes about 25-30 mph of airflow during straight flight or
take-off run rather, to neutralize the weight of the elevator.
So why did it not do this on the opposite side? The only explanation I can think
of is the prop creates a rotating airflow (clockwise from pilot's view) along
and surrounding the fuselage. The airflow was blocked because of this rotational
direction. On the other side (left bank recovery) the yaw direction was to
the right and the rotating airflow was not blocked thus allowing maintenance
of sufficient airflow over the horizontal stabilizer and elevator precluding
the sudden nose down pitch response.
I'm considering trying a very light bungee on the joystick to hold it in neutral
with zero airflow. This will change the trim settings a bit, but not in such
a way that it is not predictable. Then I will repeat the maneuver at altitude
and see what happens. Another way to test this theory without the bungee is to
do it at higher airspeeds so the nose is not so pitched up and the airflow over
the tail may not be diminished enough to cause the sudden loss of elevator
power.
Fly safe!
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52774#52774
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... |
Dear Listers,
Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the Lists because
of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will
limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have initially
set the limit to 2MB
and we'll see how everyone likes that.
If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit, they
will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to the
List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit and
how large their message
was.
Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike skolochenko" <dawnflyer44(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Allegro-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/06/06 |
Thom,
Is your allegro hangered? Or is it left out to receive the beneficial rays
of ol' Sol? The sun will bleach every other color, but white he will turn
to yellow.
Mick in Valdese
>From: Allegro-List Digest Server <allegro-list(at)matronics.com>
>Reply-To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
>To: Allegro-List Digest List
>Subject: Allegro-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/06/06
>Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:55:08 -0700
>
>*
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
>Today's complete Allegro-List Digest can also be found in either of the
>two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>of the Allegro-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
>such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
>HTML Version:
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/allegro-list/Digest.Allegro-List.2006-08-06.html
>
>Text Version:
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/allegro-list/Digest.Allegro-List.2006-08-06.txt
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Allegro-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 08/06/06: 4
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 04:56 AM - Re: Cabin Throttle Lever/ Bowen Cable Connection (Thom
>Riddle)
> 2. 05:02 AM - fuselage "white" color - darkening? (Thom Riddle)
> 3. 09:38 AM - Strange behavior (Thom Riddle)
> 4. 04:48 PM - New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... (Matt
>Dralle)
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1
>_____________________________________
>
>
>From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
>Subject: Allegro-List: Re: Cabin Throttle Lever/ Bowen Cable Connection
>
>
>Hugh,
>
>Here are a couple photos I took of what Dave described.
>
>--------
>Thom in Buffalo
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52716#52716
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/allegro_throttle_side_182.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/allegro_throttle_top_244.jpg
>
>
>________________________________ Message 2
>_____________________________________
>
>
>From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
>Subject: Allegro-List: fuselage "white" color - darkening?
>
>
>Attached is a photo taken yesterday of the aft fuselage with a white
>plastic garbage
>bag next to it for color comparison. It appears that the "white" of the
>fuselage is darkening a bit over time.
>
>Anyone else see this happening?
>
>--------
>Thom in Buffalo
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52717#52717
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00150_210.jpg
>
>
>________________________________ Message 3
>_____________________________________
>
>
>From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
>Subject: Allegro-List: Strange behavior
>
>
>During my BFR yesterday, the CFI put the Allegro into trimmed steady state
>flight
>at about 80 mph IAS. Then he banked to the left about 45 degrees and
>neutralized
>the ailerons and said "We are simulating a locked joystick condition, i.e.,
>no elevator or aileron controls, only rudder and throttle. Get us safely
>out
>of this unusual attitude." I left the throttle alone and eased in right
>rudder
>and the Allegro resumed straight and level flight without too much adverse
>yaw or other anomalies.
>
>Then the CFI did the same thing with a right bank. Now comes the
>interesting Allegro
>response. I eased in left rudder and it pitched slightly up with the yaw
>and then abruptly went very sharply nose down, not just a little bit but
>in
>steep dive angle. I caught it with the elevator and we both looked at each
>other
>with the obvious question marks on our faces that said "WTF__K was that?"
>We
>did it again from the right bank of about 45 degrees and this time I added
>the
>rudder more slowly still but at some point of yaw, the same abrupt and
>severe
>nose drop occurred which I caught again with the elevator. We tried it
>again
>from a left bank, and as before, nothing unseemly happened.
>
>What follows is my analysis of what was happening. I am no aerodynamicist
>so this
>is just my best guess. In any case, whatever the cause, all Allegro pilots
>should be aware of this.
>
>Rudder only, by its very nature, is an uncoordinated maneuver. When in a
>steep
>right bank and left rudder is added, the airplane begins to slip (high
>rudder,
>no aileron). Remember that we were flying fairly slowly around 80 mph IAS
>and
>the nose was pitched up and was also yawed left, thus allowing the higher
>(left)
>wing and fuselage to block flow to the horizontal stabilizer. Insufficient
>airflow over the elevator allowed the elevator to fall and the nose to
>pitch
>down. Note that it takes about 25-30 mph of airflow during straight flight
>or
>take-off run rather, to neutralize the weight of the elevator.
>
>So why did it not do this on the opposite side? The only explanation I can
>think
>of is the prop creates a rotating airflow (clockwise from pilot's view)
>along
>and surrounding the fuselage. The airflow was blocked because of this
>rotational
>direction. On the other side (left bank recovery) the yaw direction was to
>the right and the rotating airflow was not blocked thus allowing
>maintenance
>of sufficient airflow over the horizontal stabilizer and elevator
>precluding
>the sudden nose down pitch response.
>
>I'm considering trying a very light bungee on the joystick to hold it in
>neutral
>with zero airflow. This will change the trim settings a bit, but not in
>such
>a way that it is not predictable. Then I will repeat the maneuver at
>altitude
>and see what happens. Another way to test this theory without the bungee is
>to
>do it at higher airspeeds so the nose is not so pitched up and the airflow
>over
>the tail may not be diminished enough to cause the sudden loss of elevator
>power.
>
>Fly safe!
>
>--------
>Thom in Buffalo
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52774#52774
>
>
>________________________________ Message 4
>_____________________________________
>
>
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: Allegro-List: New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented...
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the
>Lists because
>of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will
>limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have
>initially
>set the limit to 2MB
>and we'll see how everyone likes that.
>
>If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit,
>they
>will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to
>the
>List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit
>and
>how large their message
>was.
>
>Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start...
>
>Best regards,
>
>Matt Dralle
>Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage "white" color - darkening? |
My Allegro is 1 1/2 years old and the white has definately faded/darkened
slightly. It is always hangared.
Dave
Durban, South Africa
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
> Subject: Allegro-List: fuselage "white" color - darkening?
>
>
> Attached is a photo taken yesterday of the aft fuselage with a white
> plastic garbage
> bag next to it for color comparison. It appears that the "white" of the
> fuselage is darkening a bit over time.
>
> Anyone else see this happening?
>
> --------
> Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Cabine Throttle lever/Bowen cable connection |
Thom:
Thanks for the photo. Your photo showed what I suspected. The factory
attaches a metal alloy button head on the end of the cable by some
process. I suspect this is done by pouring molten alloy (probably lead/tin
alloy) in a small mold around the cable and then cutting the cable off. I
cant do this so I will have to come up with another method. Ill think of
something!
Thanks
Hugh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/06/06 |
Mick,
It has always been hangared.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Rotax Fuel Pressure Gauge |
Gentlemen:
The Fuel Pressure gauge from Rotax for my 912UL is marked with two red
lines, one at 0.2 bar, and the other at 0.5 bar. I assume these are min. and
max. indications. The Rotax 912UL Operators Manual page 10-5 states that the
min fuel pressure is 0.15 bar, and the max is 0.4 bar. Are these red lines
on the gauge essentially the figures given in the manual, 0.15 and 0.4 bar
(i.e. as close as they could mark the gauge)?
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab Setting |
Gentlemen:
I believe I understand how to set the trim tab on my Allegro 2000, but would
like to have some independent confirmation or correction. Here is my
understanding.
With the trim tab lever in the cockpit set in the vertical down position,
the trim tab should be set in the neutral position relative to the elevator.
In this neutral position the wire cable is clamped to hold the tab in this
position. When the lever is moved forward (nose down) the tab would be
pulled up (by the spring on top of the elevator) relative to the elevator
itself. When the lever is pulled back, the tab is pulled down (by the wire
cable) relative to the elevator itself. What I dont understand is the stop
screw on top of the tab that limits the max up position that the spring
pulls the tab to. How is this stop screw set? What is the limit of the
up-deflection of the tab, and how is it measured? Any help would be deeply
appreciated.
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Stick position vs. Elevator position |
Gentlemen:
Gentlemen:
On page 180, section 44.9 of my Allegro 2000 Quick-Build Kit Assembly
Instructions there is a description of how to set the elevator stop bolts
located at the control stick. I have followed the instructions, which I
quote as follows; hold the elevator 3? above the neutral position and set
the front stop bolt. Hold the elevator 2 19/32 below the neutral position
and set the back stop bolt. I have set the elevator positions as explained.
However, with the stops set as described, the front stop bolt allows the
bottom of the hydraulic brake lever attachment on the stick to hit the
fiberglass console before the limit on the stop bolt. This should not occur.
With the stop bolts in these positions the stick can be moved forward until
the lower portion of the hydraulic brake lever hits the console, and pulled
back to a position slightly aft of vertical before hitting the rear stop. If
the elevator dimensions called for are correct, something else needs
adjusting.
Page 101 of the assembly manual shows a threaded fork at the end of the
elevator push/pull rod at the point just to the rear of the lower aileron
control lever and aileron stops. On my plane there is about of thread
showing on this fork, with an adjustable metal band clamp on the end of the
push/pull rod at this location. Can I loosen the metal band, and adjust this
threaded fork to reposition the stick to clear the console and keep the
dimension limits on the elevator? I am not sure what the adjustable metal
clamp on the elevator push/pull rod is used for other than this?
Can anyone help me with this problem?
Almost, almost, almost through with my Allegro,
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Fuel Pressure Gauge |
Hugh,
Our fuel pressure gauge is marked the same way as you describe yours.
And, yes, the two red marks are supposed to be the limits, but as you
noted, they are not marked according to the Rotax manual. Another
little factory glitch, eh? In practice, our fuel pressure with just the
mechanical engine driven pump running reads about .25 bar. With both it
and the electric boost pump running it reads about .3 bar. This is
part of my pre-take-off checklist to make sure the boost pump is
functioning. I don't know if the boost pump is rated for 100% duty
cycle so I only use the boost pump for take-offs and landings.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab Setting |
Hugh,
Our brake actuator lever does not hit the console. On my next trip to
the hangar (Wednesday) I'll try to measure the stop bolt lengths as
adjusted on ours and take a couple photos of this area and post them.
Note that in flight, our elevator trim is set so that with max. nose up
trim (handle at 9 o'clock position) this gives an straight and level
angle of attach equivalent to about 70 mph airspeed. I don not know if
the adjustment described in the assembly manual gives this same setting
since we did not build ours. Most GA airplanes I've flown will allow
more nose up trim, to the point of near stall AOA, or at least to touch
down speed, and I was concerned about this at first. However, after
flying the Allegro for a year I think I prefer the trim set this way
because the only way you can get into a stall AOA is by pulling the
stick back past the max. nose up trim neutral position. 9 o'clock is
the trim setting for both take-off and landing with no guess work. The
forces on all controls are very light so you don't need to trim for
final approach speed like on heavier aircraft.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab Setting |
Hugh,
I will measure the stop bolt on the trim tab spring too and also take a
photo of this area and post them.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab Setting |
Thom:
Why would one set the max nose up trim setting (9:00 Oclock) for level
flight? I dont quite understand this? Would you not want to have some
ability to trim the nose up or down? Maybe Im missing something here! Also
why is there an adjustment on the trim tab stop screw ?
Hugh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab Setting |
Hugh,
Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other. By 9 o'clock, I mean that
the trim control handle, when looking at it from the center of the
cockpit, is in the 9 o'clock position, i.e., handle extending aft. I'm
not certain if that is the result of the factory instructions or a
previous owner's adjustments. The result, in our case, is that this is
full nose up trim and yields about 70 mph with power set for straight
and level flight. The only disadvantage I see in this is that you can't
trim it to slower flight for final approach, but as I said before, the
control forces are so light that you don't notice the need for slight
back pressure to slow it down to flare and touch down speed. The
advantage is that you can't trim it to stall speed with a load factor
of 1. In an emergency situation, if the trim is set in this position,
then relaxing the elevator will give you a safe AOA which is very
close to Vy.
On the other end of the speed range, 75% cruise power in our 80 hp
Allegro, the trim control handle is set to about 5-5:30 o'clock. There
is plenty of trim control range and it easy to set precisely the
trimmed AOA for any speed above 70 mph. If you want the full nose up
trim to be slower, that is your choice, of course.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RMC" <chapmanr(at)peoplepc.com> |
Hi, I am a friend of Hugh McKay and have assisted him in wiring his
allegro 2000.
RMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Welcome, RMC.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Underwood, James" <JUnderwood(at)bbandt.com> |
Hello RMC. I have been threatening Hugh with a visit from myself. I'm
kinda wanting to see his progress on his plane. I have an Allegro as
well. Great fun to fly. Hope to possibly meet Hugh and yourself soon.
Jim Underwood
N3081X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RMC
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:42 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: new member
Hi, I am a friend of Hugh McKay and have assisted him in wiring his
allegro 2000.
RMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro fly-in anyone? |
Allegro-ers,
I wonder if there are enough Allegro-ers east of the Mississippi to
warrant having an informal Allegro fly-in next spring or summer. If any
of you think this might be a good thing to do, post your ideas of where
would be a good place to do it. Perhaps Doug and Betty might be
interested in hosting such a thing, like most of the kit plane outfits
do. I don't think they even monitor this list, so they may not be
interested.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro fly-in anyone? |
Thom: I think it is a great idea! If all the Allegro owners on this list
that are east of the Mississippi would give you their physical location you
could pick a central location (relative to all of the locations) and see if
we could pull it off. I know there are at least 6 to 8 Allegros here in NC
and VA, and maybe more. Just a note to tell you that we have a local fly-in
here at Laneys Airport (N92) twice a year. They are held on the second
Saturday in May and October. In May of this year we had over 40 planes. The
field has two grass strips 2000 feet long 90? to each other.
If Laneys is central to all of those who would like to meet, I'm sure I
could arrange with Charles Laney (the Owner) to host such a "gathering". Let
me know if I can help.
Hugh McKay
N661WW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:11 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: Allegro fly-in anyone?
Allegro-ers,
I wonder if there are enough Allegro-ers east of the Mississippi to
warrant having an informal Allegro fly-in next spring or summer. If any
of you think this might be a good thing to do, post your ideas of where
would be a good place to do it. Perhaps Doug and Betty might be
interested in hosting such a thing, like most of the kit plane outfits
do. I don't think they even monitor this list, so they may not be
interested.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro fly-in anyone? |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Hugh,
I think for our first event, perhaps piggy-backing onto an existing fly-in makes
a lot of sense. Does the Laneys spring fly-in have a website with the details?
From Buffalo, it is a five hour flight plus one fuel and head stop. If it is
a 2-3 day affair it would make the trip worth while. I'm flying to Kentucky
in a couple weeks, about the same distance, no big deal if the weather is good.
There is an Allegro Frappr! website with a map of those Allegro operators who have
chosen to log in and post their location. If we can get all those interested
to use this site, we can make an educated guess about appropriate location.
Here is a link to the Allegro Frappr! website.
http://www.frappr.com/allegro2000
If anyone is interested in an eastern Allegro gathering, please respond to the
list and let us know where you are on the Frappr! map.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60398#60398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Allegro-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/08/06 |
Thom:
There is no web site for Laneys. I can get you more detailed info (location,
alt., photos, etc.) as needed. Just let me know if you want to pursue this
possibility. The spring and fall fly-ins are one-day events on Saturday.
Food (Southern BBQ and all the "fixins") is served on that day. As I
mentioned in May of this year there were 40+ planes and over 200 people
there. That fly-in was in memory of Charles Laney's wife who suddenly died
in Dec. of 2005, so we probably had more than usual, but not many more. I've
got a list of Allegro owners (about 13) by name an email from the Frapper
site, but all are not east of the "Big Muddy".
Hugh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Allegro-List
Digest Server
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 1:55 AM
Subject: Allegro-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/08/06
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Allegro-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Allegro-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/allegro-list/Digest.Allegro-List.2006-09
-08.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/allegro-list/Digest.Allegro-List.2006-09
-08.txt
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Allegro-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 09/08/06: 3
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:11 AM - Allegro fly-in anyone? (Thom Riddle)
2. 10:02 AM - Re: Allegro fly-in anyone? (Hugh McKay III)
3. 11:02 AM - Re: Allegro fly-in anyone? (Thom Riddle)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Allegro-List: Allegro fly-in anyone?
Allegro-ers,
I wonder if there are enough Allegro-ers east of the Mississippi to
warrant having an informal Allegro fly-in next spring or summer. If any
of you think this might be a good thing to do, post your ideas of where
would be a good place to do it. Perhaps Doug and Betty might be
interested in hosting such a thing, like most of the kit plane outfits
do. I don't think they even monitor this list, so they may not be
interested.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Allegro-List: Allegro fly-in anyone?
Thom: I think it is a great idea! If all the Allegro owners on this list
that are east of the Mississippi would give you their physical location you
could pick a central location (relative to all of the locations) and see if
we could pull it off. I know there are at least 6 to 8 Allegros here in NC
and VA, and maybe more. Just a note to tell you that we have a local fly-in
here at Laneys Airport (N92) twice a year. They are held on the second
Saturday in May and October. In May of this year we had over 40 planes. The
field has two grass strips 2000 feet long 90? to each other.
If Laneys is central to all of those who would like to meet, I'm sure I
could arrange with Charles Laney (the Owner) to host such a "gathering". Let
me know if I can help.
Hugh McKay
N661WW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:11 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: Allegro fly-in anyone?
Allegro-ers,
I wonder if there are enough Allegro-ers east of the Mississippi to
warrant having an informal Allegro fly-in next spring or summer. If any
of you think this might be a good thing to do, post your ideas of where
would be a good place to do it. Perhaps Doug and Betty might be
interested in hosting such a thing, like most of the kit plane outfits
do. I don't think they even monitor this list, so they may not be
interested.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Subject: Allegro-List: Re: Allegro fly-in anyone?
From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
Hugh,
I think for our first event, perhaps piggy-backing onto an existing fly-in
makes
a lot of sense. Does the Laneys spring fly-in have a website with the
details?
>From Buffalo, it is a five hour flight plus one fuel and head stop. If it is
a 2-3 day affair it would make the trip worth while. I'm flying to Kentucky
in a couple weeks, about the same distance, no big deal if the weather is
good.
There is an Allegro Frappr! website with a map of those Allegro operators
who have
chosen to log in and post their location. If we can get all those interested
to use this site, we can make an educated guess about appropriate location.
Here is a link to the Allegro Frappr! website.
http://www.frappr.com/allegro2000
If anyone is interested in an eastern Allegro gathering, please respond to
the
list and let us know where you are on the Frappr! map.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60398#60398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/08/06Allegro-List Digest: |
3 Msgs - 09/08/06Allegro fly-in anyone?Allegro fly-in anyone?Allegro fly-in
anyone?Allegro fly-in anyone?
Hugh,
I will ask Doug and Betty Hempstead, at B Bar D, about their interest
in an Allegro gathering. They should be interested in hosting such a
thing or at least attending one if someone else did the planning, but
won't know until I ask. I'll let the list know if they are interested.
I found Laney's on airnav.com which is information enough at this point.
Perhaps you can email all the Allegro folks you know of an test
interest level of a gathering somewhere, either Laneys or another place
more centrally located to those who express interest.
Thom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Weight and Balance, and C.G. Calculations |
For those of you who have built (assembled) an Allegro 2000 from the Quik-
Build Kit (and I hope there is one of you out there other than myself), what
method acceptable to the FAA, did you use to compute the weight and balance
and C.G.s for this airplane? Did you use the method described in
FAA-H-8083-1, or some other method?
Hugh McKay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | fuel shut-off valve |
Our Allegro #03-202 is a bit older than other Allegros in the USA. I'm
wondering if any Allegro, new or old, has a fuel shut-off valve at the
tank. Ours has only the shut-off valve at the firewall. This means that
to check and clean the gascolator we must drain the fuel tank.
Otherwise the fuel will gush out of the gascolator because it is
between the tank and the firewall fuel shut-off valve. This is the only
airplane I've ever seen that is piped in such a way that tank must be
drained to check and clean the gascolator. Not good. If ours was
registered experimental, we would put an additional shut-off valve at
the exit of the tank, but it is registered S-LSA which would require
permission to do this from the factory. We may ask.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | fuel shut-off valve |
Thom: My Allegro S/N 04-713 is like yours. No valve between the tank and the
gascolator.
Hugh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: fuel shut-off valve
Our Allegro #03-202 is a bit older than other Allegros in the USA. I'm
wondering if any Allegro, new or old, has a fuel shut-off valve at the
tank. Ours has only the shut-off valve at the firewall. This means that
to check and clean the gascolator we must drain the fuel tank.
Otherwise the fuel will gush out of the gascolator because it is
between the tank and the firewall fuel shut-off valve. This is the only
airplane I've ever seen that is piped in such a way that tank must be
drained to check and clean the gascolator. Not good. If ours was
registered experimental, we would put an additional shut-off valve at
the exit of the tank, but it is registered S-LSA which would require
permission to do this from the factory. We may ask.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | "service catalog" |
Fellow Allegro owners/operators,
I just discovered that there is such a thing as a "Service Catalog"
that has construction details of the Allegro that are not shown in
either the "check and maintenance" manual nor the "assembly" manual. I
discovered this when I asked the USA importer (Fantasy Air USA - B Bar
D Aviation) for instructions on how to disassemble the elevator from
the horizontal stabilizer to inspect and repair the hinges that are not
getting a bit sloppy after 435 hours in service. After a few weeks
delay the instructions came from the factory in the Czech Republic and
made reference to this document called the "service catalog".
At any rate, if you do not have one of these "service catalogs" it
would be a good idea to ask for one so you and/or your mechanic can do
repairs that are not illustrated in the assembly manual. I've asked for
one but not yet received a response to my request.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Comcast Was Blocking Matronics Email Lists... |
Dear Listers (Specifically Comcast Listers),
For about the last two days, Comcast was blocking incoming email from the Matronics
Email Lists because their spam filters thought the mail was spam. I was
that people on Comcast are receiving List messages again.
If you are a Comcast user, you might want to email them and express your displeasure
with their Spam blocking policy, particularly as it relates to "matronics.com".
Sorry for the hassle...
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Email List Fund Raiser - November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's through these sole Contributions
of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site ( http://forums.matronics.com ), Wiki site ( http://wiki.matronics.com ), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matornics.com/search ), List Browse ( http://www.matornics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisments.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every few days
reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. Each message will generally
highlight a particular feature or benefit of the Matronics Lists or detail
a new feature or service that was added this year. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the
bills associated with running these lists.
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises aka Kitlog Pro (http://www.kitlog.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Paul, Andy, and Jon for their generous
support of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods
afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with
a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
https://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years. I know it sounds a little cliche, but you guys really
do feel like family.
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Have You Tried The New Matronics List Forum? |
Hello Listers,
One of the major new additions to the Matronics Email Lists this year was the addition
of a new and full function Forum Web Site at:
http://forums.matronics.com
The best part of these new Forums is that they are tied directly to the Classic
email distribution Lists! That also means that posts go in both directions.
If you post a message on the Forum web site, it will be cross posted to the respective
Email List. And, if you post a message to a particular Email List,
it will be cross posted to the same respective forum on the Forum site!
So, no matter what your content viewing pleasure is - either direct email distribution
or web-based GUI interface, you can have it at the Matronics Email Lists!
Won't you make a Contribution to support these Lists? It is your SOLE Contributions
that make their continued operation and upgrade possible!
The Contribution site is Fast, Easy, and Secure. Please surf over and make your
Contribution today:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
_-
_-
_-
_-
_-
_-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Wow, Cool! New List Feature... [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
By popular suggestion, I've written a substantial new code module for the Matronics
Email Lists system. Here's how it works...
During each November, I send out quite a few PBS-like "Please make a Contribution
to support your List" emails. Wouldn't it be cool if, once a member made a
Contribution, they didn't have to receive my support pleas anymore for the rest
of that year?
Well, that's exactly what I've written! Following this posting, anyone that makes
a List Contribution in 2006 will no longer receive my Contribution Pleas for
the rest of the year!
The best part is this not only applies to the Realtime distribution, but also the
Digest distribution! For those that have made a Contribution, the Daily Digest
email-version will be invisibly stripped of my requests as well! (Note that
my requests will still be present in the online versions of the Digests, List
Browse, and on the Forum site.)
For those submitting their Contribution by personal Check, please be sure to include
your email address along with your Check as this is what is used to determine
eligibility.
So, in a nutshell, here's how it works:
Make a Contribution = No more "Please Make a Contribution" messages!
How sweet is that? If that's not a great reason to jump on the Matronics Email
List Contribution site and make your donation today, I don't know what is!
Don't forget that there are some totally awesome free gifts to be had along with
your List Contribution this year!! Don't wait a minute longer to support your
Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your Support!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! |
:-)
If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't
yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! This is the first PBS-like
funds drive message under the new distribution system. The new system selectively
sends out the Contribution messages ONLY to those that forgot to whip
out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade
of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-)
You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests
messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox!
Pardon me if I seem kind of excited about the new feature. I've wanted to
implement something like this for a number of years now, but it was always such
a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept
putting it off. Finally this year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put
the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working
system!
Anyway, I'll stop gushing now. I really do appreciate each and every one of your
individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables
me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site
like this. It also goes to pay for the Commercial-Grade Internet connection
and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running
and the air conditioner powered up.
Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such
as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly
ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand
the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet
these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List site.
I'm pretty sure you don't either.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution today to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Clarification On New Contribution Module Operation... |
Dear Listers,
A number of Listers emailed and indicated that, even though they had made a Contribution
this year, they still received the Contribution message yesterday.
I looked into it and I found a slight anomaly (ok, bug) in the new code specifically
as it related to Listers that had made their Contribution through PayPal
AND have a DIFFERENT email address for their PayPal account and for their Matronics
List subscription.
If your PayPal account email address is DIFFERENT than the email address you are
subscribed to the Matronics List(s) as, then my new code module couldn't tell
that you had made a Contribution, since it was using the PayPal email address
instead of the List email.
I've fixed this issue for any new PayPal Contributions, but I don't have any easy
way of resolving this for any of the previous Contribtuions. Again, this is
ONLY an issue if your PayPal and Matronics List email addresses ARE NOT the
same. Otherwise, everything works great.
If you made a PayPal Contribution before 11/09/06 AND your email addresses don't
match, please drop me an email at " info(at)matronics.com " (do not reply to this
message!) and give me your Name, and both Email Addresses and I will manually
update the records so that things will work as advertised.
Sorry for the hassle! New code; new bugs... :-)
To make a Contribution, please see: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administration
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
I added a new Wiki web site to the Matronics Email List features earlier this year. What's a Wiki, you ask? Well, here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) definition:
A wiki (IPA: [ w .ki ] or [ wi .ki ] ) is a type of Web site
that allows the visitors themselves to easily add, remove, and otherwise edit
and change some available content, sometimes without the need for registration.
This ease of interaction and operation makes a wiki an effective tool for
collaborative authoring. The term wiki also can refer to the collaborative software
itself (wiki engine) that facilitates the operation of such a Web site,
or to certain specific wiki sites, including the computer science site (an original
wiki), WikiWikiWeb, and on-line encyclopedias such as Wikipedia.
Under the Matronics Email List Moniker, there is now a very nice List-specific
Wiki available! It a place for Listers to put articles about any aviation topic
that suits them. The purpose is to provide what the mailing lists do not:
structure and persistence. The mailing lists are a fantastic resource to ask
a question and get good (and bad and funny and annoying) answers. But once the
question is asked and answered it is not in front of the List anymore. If a
new person subscribes the next day, he/she does not see that information unless
he/she goes to the trouble to search the archives, a hit or miss proposition.
The result is that the same thread of conversation gets created and/or revisited.
There are several things that happen as a result:
1. The person gets his or her question answered;
2. The information gets better as more people think about and answer the question;
3. The people who have seen the same question asked and answered get annoyed
at seeing the same things over and over and over and ...
So this is where the Wiki comes in. You know what questions you wanted answered.
You may have asked or answered the question. You know the information is useful.
So you put the information here, in the Matronics Email List Wiki!
It doesn't matter that this information is 100% complete or correct. Just writing
something creates a placeholder and makes useful information available immediately.
It has the same immediacy as the mailing list but it has persistence
and structure.
But what if the information is incomplete or incorrect? No problem! Anyone else
coming along can edit the article! If I write something and you discover something
I have left out or stated incorrectly, you can fix it right then!
So let's begin and make this the place for information about building, flying,
maintaining, and understanding our airplanes.
But what about whether something is "appropriate" or not? Don't worry. Write
it down. Let the reader determine whether or not it is appropriate. If it is,
he/she will read it. If it isn't, he/she won't. It's as simple as that.
And when you do write that article you won't have to worry about whether some editor
is going to decide whether or not to print it in a newsletter or whether
the webmaster will have time to put it up on the web page.
The last question I hear brewing out there is: if anyone can post anything, won't
this just become a mass of garbage? Surprisingly, the answer is a resounding
no. If you want proof, go visit the Wikipedia, a free-to-everyone encyclopedia
written by whoever wants to write articles. The articles there are as good
as anything I have read anywhere and anyone can add anything anytime they want
to.
So don't hesitate. Write it down. Put it here. It will never hurt anyone. The
more information we get here, the more useful it will become to other people
and the more information they will put here for YOU to use.
Here's the URL to start (there are lots more bured under this starting place):
http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Matronics:Community_Portal
But please don't forget that this Wiki and all of the other Matronics Email List
features are supported solely by YOUR Contributions!! November is List Fund
Raiser month and there are lots of Free Gifts to be had with your qualifying
Contribution. Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these great services!!! Thank you!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | WLAS [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I sat down at the 'ol computer tonight to have a look at a few of the nice comments
List Members have been including along with their Contributions this year.
I was amazed at how many I found and even more amazed at some of the very nice
things Listers have been saying about the Lists and how valuable the they
are to them.
I've included quite a few of these nice comments below. Please read over some
of this great Lister feedback. No doubt you will find that you agree with at
least one or two of those comments - maybe all of them! If you find that do,
won't you please make a Contribution to support these Lists today!! Its fast
and easy with the Matronics List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Don't forget that I've now fully implemented the new *List Fund Raiser Squelch*
feature that will automatically intercept any future iterations of my "Please
Contribute" messages -- that is, *once you've made YOUR Contribution*! How cool
is that? (Make sure the email address you enter along with your Contribution
matches exactly your subscribed List email address. An exact match is how
it works.)
Thank you for your generous Contributions this year and for all the wonderful comments!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================
Absolutely the best deal on the Internet!!
-Owen B
I love The Matronics...
-Robeto B
My wife has her soaps & I've got my lists!
-Hal B
These lists are, indeed, the lifeline of our hobby.
-Bob R
The best source of information for my a/c.
-Tony C
The Zenith list is the first thing I read in the morning.
-Herbert H
You do more good than you can imagine. I wish I'd known
about you while I was building my Kitfox, but you are
still an after-the-fact resource.
-Ben B
..an excellent site.
-Ashley M
The "List" has been the ultimate help for my Zenith
CH 701 project!!
-Brian U
I appreciate the list being here for me.
-Geoff H
..a great service.
-William C
The List continues to be an interesting and useful facility.
-David M
Your list is a constant goad to keep me working on my project.
-Thomas S
..a great service.
-Robert W
The Pietenpol list is a great resource.
-Benjamin W
The Yak-list is Awesome!
-James S
..great service.
-Robert S
The features you have implemented recently have you poised
to knock out yahoo groups...
-Danny D
I like how your forum looks/works and the list service...
-Ken E
..great service.
-David P
Very useful web site.
-Wayne E
..a very valuable service.
-Chris D
Great sites...
-Randall R
I used to look at [that other] site also but it's gotten so
cluttered with advertising that I've stopped looking at it.
-Wayne E
Without your services, the build would be a grope in the dark...
-Fergus K
The information and help I've received greatly outweighs the
donation...
-Lee P
..great service!
-Christopher D
I really don't think I could be building my plane without the
wisdom I find on this list.
-William G
It really makes building a pleasure.
-James P
..great service.
-Doug W
I'm getting near the end of my build (Europa tri XS) don't
think I could have done it with out the help of the forum.
-Stanislaus S
Marvelous service. Couldn't have done it without you.
-Jim G
Love the list, this is a wonderful way to help others...
-Michael S
..good service.
-Derek L
The list is responsible for helping me complete this project
and educating me in the process.
-Jeff D
Definitely worth the donation.
-Ron L
..great service to the aviation community.
-Tony P
I have been flying my plane for 5 years (RV-6) but I still
get valuable information from this service.
-Don N
A very helpful site.
-Roland S
It's a great community to be part of.
-David L
Great sites.
-John C
A great place to find and share not only information but to
meet people across the country and make lasting relationships.
-Uncle Craig
Great facility.
-Peter H
Its a great source of information!
-Michael W
Great improvements to the List...
-Edward A
Great service!!!
-Rich D
..great resource!
-William C
..excellent lists!
-Michael S
Couldn't have built my RV4 without the list.
-Warren M
..a great service...
-James N
I would not have missed [the list] for anything during the
building of my Europa.
-Svein J
..another great year.
-Robert D
..this [is an] essential builder's resource.
-David A
..excellent service.
-Gregory B
I've learned a huge amount of "stuff" over the past year
and look forward to it every day!
-Smith M
..a great communication tool...
-Jon M
Finished building 5 years ago, but still are lurking on
your great list!
-Lothar K
..a valuable service. At 11:00 pm Matronics is the goto
place for my RV questions.
-Mike D
================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort
of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a
building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least 0 or 0 worth
of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription
to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at
least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount
and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses?
Come to think of it, you do...
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR
Lists?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Why? [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity
to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience
over the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running
a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support
from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run
the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying
banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other
garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years
regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate
the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter
once a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over
the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to
be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these
Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments
stripped off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature
that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone
can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before
they are posted. Safe and simple.
Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List
Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives
go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very
fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly
finding the data you're looking for.
And added just this year is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer
the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums
is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages
posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa.
The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and
other files. Additionally added this year is the new List Wiki that allows
members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various
aspects of their project for all to share.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since
about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building
RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and
an associated web site that receives over 23,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally,
the List Email system forwarded well over 87,000 postings last year,
accounting for an unbelievable 39,000,000 (yes, that's 39 MILLION) email messages
delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in
supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and
improving a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_!
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the
quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message,
Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites.
The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk
a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate,
and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the
Annual List Fund Raiser!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Stall Warning "horn" |
Gentlemen:
In the Allegro 2000 there is a panel mounted (behind the panel) audible
stall warning device, or horn that is electrically connected to the
specially designed ASI, and to a pressure switch that is in the pneumatic
pitot/static system. There is also a red LED that is in the audible
electrical circuit that gives one visual indication of approaching stall as
well as the audible horn. Can any of you tell me the name of the
manufacturer of this audible device? I need to contact the manufacturer.
Hugh McKay in NC
Allegro 2000
N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning |
Hugh,
I do not know the answer to your question but B Bar D should be able to
get the information for you from the Allegro factory or you could
contact the Allegro factory direct and hope they will give you the
information.
When we bought our demo Allegro from the Nebraska dealer he had to
replace the stall warning system before we purchased it. I do not know
what part of the system failed and ours is still working as designed. I
don't know if the Nebraska dealer can help you with this or not but he
has always been very helpful when I've needed information. He is not
just an aircraft salesman. He is a CFI and A&P mechanic. His name is
Frank Cuba and his website is http://www.litewings.com/home.html which
has his email and telephone number. You can tell him I suggested you
call him, if you want.
Good luck, and let us know what you learn.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | More Great List Comments - Please Make A Contribution! |
Dear Listers,
There's a little less than one week left for this year's List Fund Raiser. I thought
it would a great time to share a few more of the great comments I've been
receiving from Contributors regarding what the Lists mean to them. There are
some particularly poignant ones in this batch and I encourage you to have a
look at some of them.
Don't forget that once you make your Contribution, the Contribution Squelch kicks
in and you won't receive any future messages from me regarding the Fund Raiser
this year! This holds true for the Realtime and Digest distributions and
now also the HTML and TXT links included with the Digest! (Note that for technical
reasons, if someone replies to one of my contribution messages, the Squelch
will _not_ be activated, and you will still receive it. Contribution messages
will also still be found on the Forums site and the List Browse).
Please make your Contribution today to support these List services! Pick up a
great Gift too!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
============================= WLAS #2 ============================
Tackling my project without the List would be like
building on a deserted island. The List has made me
part of a learning (and laughing) community. -Larry W
Thank you for providing such a fantastic resource for us
Kolbers. I'm very happy to contribute towards keeping such a
wonderful resource available. -Geoff T
..you do a great service for the flying community by
providing this service. -John L
..solidly administered. -James C
A great source of information. -Ralph S
The Lists have likely saved a numbers of lives... -James F
..exceptional user service. -Larry W
Better than a magazine! -Aaron G
Thanks to your List I will be able to finish and fly
my project. Without the help of the great people on
your List I doubt it would have happened. -Ed G
I learn something on a too regular basis thanks to
these lists! -Ralph C
..valuable service. -John F
..a well administered service. -Stewart C
Great forum! -Ronald C
A great service! -Andy H
Been reading the lists since my first RV in 1999. Good
work and as necessary to me as a rivet. -Albert G
The lists are a great help. -Gary S
This resource has been critical to my building success
so far. -Timothy F
Great system and support! -Richard P
Very helpful in the building my CH 701. -Ralph S
Another year of entertainment and pleasure! -Larry B
A great resource for all of us. -Larry W
Another year of great service! Once again, the
information is worth more than I can ever contribute.
Thank you also for the "community" that the List fosters.
I cannot tell you the number of times that seeing an
friend's name come up has caused so many awesome memories
to come flooding back - along with the eager desire to
gather with these great guys again. I love hearing the
beginner's enthusiasm, the builder's progress, and the
flyer's success... -Robert B
Our list has great info and I love reading the
"Flame Posts! " -Stephen M
Great service! -James B
Excellent source of information. -David P
You provide a very valuable service to the aviation
community. -David H
The RV related lists have been a tremendous help in the
construction of my RV-7... -Norman R
Awesome list!! -John E
Great bunch of guys and very knowledgeable! -Herbert G
Thank you for making it so easy to stay in touch
with my fellow RV-10 builders. -David J
I love the list and have been a reader for a long
time. -James V
Continues to be a great service! -George A
Awesome List server. -Deke M
Many of us would never finish our airplanes without
[the List]. With it, I'm getting close! -Ronald C
An excellent source of both information and
inspiration! -William R
Forums and format are easy to use. -Jack B
Great help with my kit building. -Ralph H
Super service. -Richard N
Still loving it. -Jared S
You have a fantastic web! -Harvey R
..a great service. -James M
Glad you are there... -David A
I get some great information on your list. -John P
Fantastic service. Couldn't have made it as far
as I have without it. -Stephen T
A great learning experience with my RV-6A. -Ron B
Great resources! -Jason H
Well done. Very valuable. -Jeffrey D
Great resource for the experimental aircraft
community. -Chris H
This List has been one of the most helpful tools in
building my RV-10, since I build alone, and do not
have any help readily available. Without the List,
I could not have embarked on building my RV-10. -Jim H
You run a great list there. -James H
Really like the Kolb List. -Don W
============================= WLAS #2 ============================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're Listed! |
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, the List
seems at least as valuable of a building/flying/recreating tool as a typical
your magazine subscription! And how interactive is a magazine, after all? :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by droping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web
development and CGI design during this period.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here
locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers found here include a brand new, quad-processor Xeon Linux
server for List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to
the email processing List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a
remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard
drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage, soon to be upgraded
to over 6 Terra Bytes! This entire system is protected by three large, commercial-grade
uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are
available even during a local power outage! Speaking of power, imagine how much
electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One month this Summer,
I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. This year I added another rack to house
the new MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the
first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition
of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It
is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running!
Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
1) Today I am now officially 43 years old... (arg...)
2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! :-)
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and
no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support
their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way
to further the List operation and keep the bills paid.
I will be posting the List of Contributors next week, so make sure your name is
on it! :-)
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly
appreciated.
List Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Empty weight and C.G. Location |
Gentlemen:
I have just weighed my kit built Allegro 2000 (empty weight*) to compare
with the published empty weight in the Fantasy Air Flight and Operating
Manual.
* empty weight = weight of plane with standard instruments, engine, coolant,
oil, ELT, & Battery (no fuel and no BRS).
My empty weight* is 320 Kg, or 704 lbs. (Nose wheel = 154 lbs., Right Main
wheel = 270 lbs., Left Main wheel = 280 lbs.)
The Flight and Operating Manual states that the empty weight should be 275
Kg or 605 lbs. I am 99 lbs (16%) heavier than what is published for the
empty weight! The published MTOW is 520 Kg, or 1144 lbs. This leaves me only
440 lbs for a BRS, Fuel and 2 occupants. Those numbers are as follows:
Main fuel tank fuel 14.5 gal. = 88.97 lbs.
BRS = 35.00 lbs.
Wing Tanks Fuel 10.4 gal. = 64.00 lbs.
My Weight = 150.00 lbs
Total = 337.97 lbs.
440 lbs. minus 337.97 lbs is 102.03 lbs max weight for the passenger in
order not to exceed the MTOW of 1144 lbs. With these numbers, in reality I
cant take a passenger unless he is a child or a very light weight adult.
What is the basis of the 275 Kg (605 lbs.) stated in the F and O Manual? I
dont understand why I am 99 lbs over the published empty weight! I have
nothing more in this plane at empty weight* other than what I have stated
above with the *. What are the empty weights running for the ready to fly
Allegros with similar items?
With a total empty weight of 704 lbs. the c.g. is 12.18 inches behind the
leading edge. The maximum allowable distance is 390 mm or 15.35 behind the
leading edge. 12.18 is 81% of the limit. The F & O Manual states that the
c.g. of the empty aircraft is almost exactly the same for the aircraft with
one or two pilots and with an empty or full fuel tank. According to this,
the empty c.g. and the MTOW c.g. stays the same (i.e I do not have to weigh
the plane with fuel, and passengers to calculate a new c.g. . Is this
correct?
I have sent this information to the US Distributor, Fantasy Air USA, but I
would like to get some independent feedback concerning the weight issue (605
lbs. Vs. 704 lbs.). Do any of you know your comparable empty weights, and
would you share them with me? Any and all help will be deeply appreciated.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Center of Gravity Calculation (C.G.) |
Gentlemen:
Have any of you actually calculated the c.g. of your airplane using the
formulas given in the Fantasy Air Flight and Operating Manual (pages 15 and
16)? The terms La, Lt, XSAT, bSAT, bMAC are totally foreign to me. I
believe the term SAT is for Mean Aerodynamic Chord (MAC), but Im not sure.
I do see the term MAC, but is is expressed as bMAC, and I dont know what
this is. Page 16 and the various formulas and the table with * is completely
confusing to me. Has anyone actually used these formulas?
I know how to locate the weight and balance and C.G. of an airplane using
the FAA Weight and Balance Handbook, but page 16 of the Fantasy Air Allegro
2000 F&O Manual is a mystery to me! Can anyone shed any light on page 16?
Hugh McKay
Allegro2000
912UL
N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Arnold" <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Empty weight and C.G. Location |
I have a Zenith CH701 kit on order. For the past year of so, I observe
that most builders are significantly over the published empty weight. I
can understand a small overage but nearly 100 lbs over with what appears
to be standard installs is worrisome.
Ken Arnold
CH701 on order
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh McKay III
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: Empty weight and C.G. Location
Gentlemen:
I have just weighed my kit built Allegro 2000 (empty weight*) to
compare with the published empty weight in the Fantasy Air Flight and
Operating Manual.
* empty weight = weight of plane with standard instruments, engine,
coolant, oil, ELT, & Battery (no fuel and no BRS).
My empty weight* is 320 Kg, or 704 lbs. (Nose wheel = 154 lbs.,
Right Main wheel = 270 lbs., Left Main wheel = 280 lbs.)
The Flight and Operating Manual states that the empty weight should be
275 Kg or 605 lbs. I am 99 lbs (16%) heavier than what is published for
the empty weight! The published MTOW is 520 Kg, or 1144 lbs. This leaves
me only 440 lbs for a BRS, Fuel and 2 occupants. Those numbers are as
follows:
Main fuel tank fuel 14.5 gal. = 88.97 lbs.
BRS = 35.00 lbs.
Wing Tanks Fuel 10.4 gal. = 64.00 lbs.
My Weight = 150.00 lbs
Total = 337.97 lbs.
440 lbs. minus 337.97 lbs is 102.03 lbs max weight for the passenger
in order not to exceed the MTOW of 1144 lbs. With these numbers, in
reality I can't take a passenger unless he is a child or a very light
weight adult.
What is the basis of the 275 Kg (605 lbs.) stated in the F and O
Manual? I don't understand why I am 99 lbs over the published empty
weight! I have nothing more in this plane at empty weight* other than
what I have stated above with the *. What are the empty weights running
for the ready to fly Allegros with similar items?
With a total empty weight of 704 lbs. the c.g. is 12.18 inches behind
the leading edge. The maximum allowable distance is 390 mm or 15.35"
behind the leading edge. 12.18" is 81% of the limit. The F & O Manual
states that the c.g. of the empty aircraft is almost exactly the same
for the aircraft with one or two pilots and with an empty or full fuel
tank. According to this, the empty c.g. and the MTOW c.g. stays the same
(i.e I do not have to weigh the plane with fuel, and passengers to
calculate a new c.g. . Is this correct?
I have sent this information to the US Distributor, Fantasy Air USA,
but I would like to get some independent feedback concerning the weight
issue (605 lbs. Vs. 704 lbs.). Do any of you know your comparable empty
weights, and would you share them with me? Any and all help will be
deeply appreciated.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Fund Raiser - 2006 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists
this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding
the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor
of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser only underscores the great
sentiments people have made regarding the Lists.
If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please
feel free to do so. The nice List gifts will be available on the site for
just a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution and get your
great gift. Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises ( http://www.kitlog.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Paul, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated!
And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2006 List of Contributors current
as of 12/7/06! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people
that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough
for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser!
THANK YOU!
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2006.html
I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have
everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped
via US Postal Service. Kitlog Pro serial numbers should go out via email this
weekend.
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TIM MOSES" <tcmoses(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Empty weight and C.G. Location |
Hugh,
I have an Allegro and a GT-500 that I just weighed for conversion to
E-LSA. I can not help but wonder is your scales are accurate or if they
jamed due to side movement of the main gear. As Ken Arnold said this is
very worrisome. I used 3 - 400 pound digital scales to weigh the GT-500
and had no problems with repeatability of the scales each time I jacked
the plane off of them and reapplied the weight.
Tim Moses
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Arnold
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Empty weight and C.G. Location
I have a Zenith CH701 kit on order. For the past year of so, I
observe that most builders are significantly over the published empty
weight. I can understand a small overage but nearly 100 lbs over with
what appears to be standard installs is worrisome.
Ken Arnold
CH701 on order
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh McKay III
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: Empty weight and C.G. Location
Gentlemen:
I have just weighed my kit built Allegro 2000 (empty weight*) to
compare with the published empty weight in the Fantasy Air Flight and
Operating Manual.
* empty weight = weight of plane with standard instruments,
engine, coolant, oil, ELT, & Battery (no fuel and no BRS).
My empty weight* is 320 Kg, or 704 lbs. (Nose wheel = 154 lbs.,
Right Main wheel = 270 lbs., Left Main wheel = 280 lbs.)
The Flight and Operating Manual states that the empty weight should
be 275 Kg or 605 lbs. I am 99 lbs (16%) heavier than what is published
for the empty weight! The published MTOW is 520 Kg, or 1144 lbs. This
leaves me only 440 lbs for a BRS, Fuel and 2 occupants. Those numbers
are as follows:
Main fuel tank fuel 14.5 gal. = 88.97 lbs.
BRS = 35.00 lbs.
Wing Tanks Fuel 10.4 gal. = 64.00 lbs.
My Weight = 150.00 lbs
Total = 337.97 lbs.
440 lbs. minus 337.97 lbs is 102.03 lbs max weight for the passenger
in order not to exceed the MTOW of 1144 lbs. With these numbers, in
reality I can't take a passenger unless he is a child or a very light
weight adult.
What is the basis of the 275 Kg (605 lbs.) stated in the F and O
Manual? I don't understand why I am 99 lbs over the published empty
weight! I have nothing more in this plane at empty weight* other than
what I have stated above with the *. What are the empty weights running
for the ready to fly Allegros with similar items?
With a total empty weight of 704 lbs. the c.g. is 12.18 inches
behind the leading edge. The maximum allowable distance is 390 mm or
15.35" behind the leading edge. 12.18" is 81% of the limit. The F & O
Manual states that the c.g. of the empty aircraft is almost exactly the
same for the aircraft with one or two pilots and with an empty or full
fuel tank. According to this, the empty c.g. and the MTOW c.g. stays the
same (i.e I do not have to weigh the plane with fuel, and passengers to
calculate a new c.g. . Is this correct?
I have sent this information to the US Distributor, Fantasy Air USA,
but I would like to get some independent feedback concerning the weight
issue (605 lbs. Vs. 704 lbs.). Do any of you know your comparable empty
weights, and would you share them with me? Any and all help will be
deeply appreciated.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Allegro-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Allegro-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Empty weight and C.G. LocationEmpty weight and C.G. |
Location
Hugh,
The maximum legal weight for an LSA in the USA that is not equipped for
water operations is 1,320 lb. Equipped for water operations, the max is
1,430 lb. BUT each manufacturer can specify any MTOW for their aircraft
at those weights or lower. The Fantasy Air USA website shows the MTOW
at 1,232 lb. I did some calculations on change in Vs1 based on MTOW of
1,232 lb. vs. 1,146 lb. At MTOW of 1,232 lb. the Vs1 is just within the
legal limit of LSA stall speed which is 45 knots. That is probably
(just and educated guess) the reason they chose 1,232 lb. for the MTOW
for LSA category, since a MTOW of higher than that would have
disqualified it by virtue of the higher stall speed.
As I said, the airplane handles fine at over 1200 lb. But the load
limit at 1,232 lb. must be factored downward from the +4g/-2g numbers
that were determined at 1,144 lb. Positive flight loads of 4 g at 1,146
lb. would equate to 4 x 1146 = 4,584 lb. Thus at 1,232 lb, a total
flight load of 4,584 would be equivalent to a 3.72g load limit at 1,232
lb. (4584/1232=3.72). Do similar math for the negative load limits.
These numbers are still very close to the required minimum load limits
for standard category aircraft like Cessnas (+3.8g).
There are other factors that should be considered when the designers
calculate a MTOW, including the forces on the landing gear,
particularly during landing operations. This may be one of the reasons
they increased the dimensions of the main landing gear since the early
design to accommodate the heavier MTOW in LSA category.
Also, the CG limit range is between 25% and 35% of mean aerodynamic
chord (MAC) which is 44" on the Allegro 2000. 25% of 44" is 11" for the
forward limit and 35% of 44" is 15.4" for the aft limit. The location
of the empty weight CG has no real significance, as long as the CG is
within this range when in operation. CG range in light aircraft rarely
exceeds 5" from fore to aft limit and the Allegro 2000 limit range is
4.4" (15.4-11), so that is a normal CG range. Unless you go way way
over the baggage limitation, it is difficult for typical American sized
pilots and passengers to get out of CG range in the Allegro as long as
you do not exceed the MTOW of 1,232 lb.
Attached is an Excel spreadsheet of my our W&B. You can modify this to
suit your airplane. You may notice that the location of the baggage arm
on my spreadsheet is further back than what the factory gives us. My
numbers are from measuring to center of the baggage area not the
bulkhead just behind the seats. Please use your own numbers as this is
for our airplane only.
If for some reason the file is not attached (have had troubles with the
attachment process) and you want a copy of my spreadsheet, email me
directly.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Empty weight and C.G. Location |
Hugh
My Allegro (factory-built) weighs 308kg or 672 lbs. It has metal skinned
wings, strobes and nav lights, wheel spats and a GRS ballistic chute. The
chute weighs 13kg, so without it the empty weight comes out at 295kg or 650
lbs. I think your scales must be out. Considering the parts for the kit
are almost completely factory built, I can't see where you could possibly
pick up so much weight during the build process. We have now added wing
tanks but have not re-weighed it since then.
Dave
----- Original Message ----- >
> From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Allegro-List: Empty weight and C.G. Location
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> I have just weighed my kit built Allegro 2000 (empty weight*) to compare
> with the published empty weight in the Fantasy Air Flight and Operating
> Manual.
>
> * empty weight = weight of plane with standard instruments, engine,
> coolant,
> oil, ELT, & Battery (no fuel and no BRS).
>
> My empty weight* is 320 Kg, or 704 lbs. (Nose wheel = 154 lbs., Right Main
> wheel = 270 lbs., Left Main wheel = 280 lbs.)
>
> The Flight and Operating Manual states that the empty weight should be 275
> Kg or 605 lbs. I am 99 lbs (16%) heavier than what is published for the
> empty weight! The published MTOW is 520 Kg, or 1144 lbs. This leaves me
> only
> 440 lbs for a BRS, Fuel and 2 occupants. Those numbers are as follows:
>
> Main fuel tank fuel 14.5 gal. = 88.97 lbs.
> BRS = 35.00 lbs.
> Wing Tanks Fuel 10.4 gal. = 64.00 lbs.
> My Weight = 150.00 lbs
>
> Total = 337.97 lbs.
>
> 440 lbs. minus 337.97 lbs is 102.03 lbs max weight for the passenger in
> order not to exceed the MTOW of 1144 lbs. With these numbers, in reality I
> cant take a passenger unless he is a child or a very light weight adult.
>
> What is the basis of the 275 Kg (605 lbs.) stated in the F and O Manual? I
> dont understand why I am 99 lbs over the published empty weight! I have
> nothing more in this plane at empty weight* other than what I have stated
> above with the *. What are the empty weights running for the ready to fly
> Allegros with similar items?
>
> With a total empty weight of 704 lbs. the c.g. is 12.18 inches behind the
> leading edge. The maximum allowable distance is 390 mm or 15.35 behind the
> leading edge. 12.18 is 81% of the limit. The F & O Manual states that the
> c.g. of the empty aircraft is almost exactly the same for the aircraft
> with
> one or two pilots and with an empty or full fuel tank. According to this,
> the empty c.g. and the MTOW c.g. stays the same (i.e I do not have to
> weigh
> the plane with fuel, and passengers to calculate a new c.g. . Is this
> correct?
>
> I have sent this information to the US Distributor, Fantasy Air USA, but I
> would like to get some independent feedback concerning the weight issue
> (605
> lbs. Vs. 704 lbs.). Do any of you know your comparable empty weights, and
> would you share them with me? Any and all help will be deeply appreciated.
>
> Hugh McKay
> Allegro 2000
> Rotax 912UL
> N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro 2000 ELT Antenna Location |
Gentlemen:
My communication radio antenna for my Allegro 2000 is mounted on the
centerline of the fuselage aft of the bulkhead that is just behind the
seats. Since the fuselage of the Allegro 2000 is a fiberglass composite
construction, I have used aluminum tape in an X pattern on the inside of
the fuselage to obtain a ground plane for the antenna. My ECK Model E-01 ELT
unit requires its antenna to be mounted at least 5 feet from any other
radiating antenna. Practically, this means that the ELT antenna has to be
mounted some where on top of one of the wings using the aluminum as its
ground plane. I am wondering where some of you have mounted your ELT
antennas.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 ELT Antenna Location |
Hugh,
Our Com Antenna is located in the same place your is. Our ELT is
mounted on the baggage compartment removable floor between the aileron
control and the flaps control as far forward as possible. That might
not be quite five feet away from the Com Antenna but they both work
very well. The Icom A-200 Radio works great and I know the ELT works
because we accidentally bumped the switch to on and got a call later
from the Search and Rescue folks. AND it was inside a completely closed
metal hangar! It is a good location because you can reach it in flight
if necessary.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro 2000 ELT Antenna Location |
Thom:
I understand where you have located the actual ELT Transmitter unit, but
where have you mounted its antenna?
Hugh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Allegro 2000 ELT Antenna Location
Hugh,
Our Com Antenna is located in the same place your is. Our ELT is
mounted on the baggage compartment removable floor between the aileron
control and the flaps control as far forward as possible. That might
not be quite five feet away from the Com Antenna but they both work
very well. The Icom A-200 Radio works great and I know the ELT works
because we accidentally bumped the switch to on and got a call later
from the Search and Rescue folks. AND it was inside a completely closed
metal hangar! It is a good location because you can reach it in flight
if necessary.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 ELT Antenna LocationAllegro 2000 ELT Antenna |
Location
Hugh,
Sorry about the oversight. When we got the airplane, the ELT did not
have an antenna so we bought a telescoping antenna (like car antennas)
with a coax connector on the end and a swiveling elbow. We got this
from the local avionics shop that installed our transponder for us. We
have it connected to the ELT and then extended horizontally towards the
left side of the aircraft with the end tucked in behind the edge of the
bulkhead just behind the seats. It works fine there. I wish I could
point you to a web link where you can buy these but I didn't even know
about them until the avionics installer told me about it.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Empty weight and C.G. Location |
| From: | "ray" <johnogr(at)dcsi.net.au> |
Hugh
You say the weight of your plane as being 320kg empty. This may be right.
I`ve taken all the parts off my plane, radio,spates, extra switchs and guages,
gps, antena, wing tanks, fuel taps and hosing, strobe light, wing lights, landing
light, taken off the differance in weight of a 582, two blade prop instead
of three, as the brochure did state that the Allegro will fly with a 582. It
would`nt take much to get over 300kg plus if the weights at the factory were calculated
with a two stroke and very basics flight equipment.
Ray
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82591#82591
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB Kit? |
| From: | "otrova" <escalantea(at)gmail.com> |
I don't see a lot of activity on this forum and what I do see does not show a very
positive support/design/quality from the Allegro manufacturer and the USA
Distributor.
I'm I wrong? Can anyone comment on this?
1-Allegro Plane in general
2-QB Kit, instructions, support, quality, completeness?
3-USA Distributor/Manufacturer support, commitment?
Thanks!
Otrova
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84712#84712
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB Kit? |
Otrova,
1- The Allegro is a great performing airplane that is comfortable to
fly for long periods and is very economical to operate, especially the
912UL (80 hp) version. I have very few complaints about the airplane
itself and those are rather minor.
2- I can't comment on the QB kit as we bought our Allegro already
flying as a demonstration aircraft with 270 hours on it.
3- The USA importers are learning as they go and are not up to the
standards I would like, but they are improving. They do not participate
in this List which is a mystery to me.
I hope this helps.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/31/06 |
Otrova:
I do not know how many Kits have been built in the U.S., but I suspect very
few relative to the number of ready-to-fly planes. The plane itself is
excellent. My personal experience, having just finished the Quik-Build Kit
version after receiving it in March 2004, concerning the instructions,
support, quality and completeness of the kit has been expressed in numerous
early emails on this forum. I trust you have read them so I will not repeat
them here. My biggest disappointment was the little to no support I received
from the USA Distributor. Their attitude seemed to be "you bought it, you
build it". If you would like to discuss this further, you can contact me
directly at hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
N661WW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Allegro-List
Digest Server
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 2:55 AM
Subject: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/31/06
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Allegro-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Allegro-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Cha
pter 06-12-31&Archive=Allegro
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chap
ter 06-12-31&Archive=Allegro
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Allegro-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 12/31/06: 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 PM - Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB Kit?
(otrova)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Subject: Allegro-List: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB Kit?
From: "otrova" <escalantea(at)gmail.com>
I don't see a lot of activity on this forum and what I do see does not show
a very
positive support/design/quality from the Allegro manufacturer and the USA
Distributor.
I'm I wrong? Can anyone comment on this?
1-Allegro Plane in general
2-QB Kit, instructions, support, quality, completeness?
3-USA Distributor/Manufacturer support, commitment?
Thanks!
Otrova
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84712#84712
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Arnold" <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB Kit? |
Thom,
Have you visited the site in Sanford, NC? You might find some of the
reasons they do not participate. I took two LSA lessons out of there.
Regards,
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB
Kit?
>
> Otrova,
>
> 1- The Allegro is a great performing airplane that is comfortable to fly
> for long periods and is very economical to operate, especially the 912UL
> (80 hp) version. I have very few complaints about the airplane itself and
> those are rather minor.
>
> 2- I can't comment on the QB kit as we bought our Allegro already flying
> as a demonstration aircraft with 270 hours on it.
>
> 3- The USA importers are learning as they go and are not up to the
> standards I would like, but they are improving. They do not participate in
> this List which is a mystery to me.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB Kit? |
| From: | "otrova" <escalantea(at)gmail.com> |
re-posted
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 49
Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs
- 12/31/06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Otrova:
I do not know how many Kits have been built in the U.S., but I suspect very
few relative to the number of ready-to-fly planes. The plane itself is
excellent. My personal experience, having just finished the Quik-Build Kit
version after receiving it in March 2004, concerning the instructions,
support, quality and completeness of the kit has been expressed in numerous
early emails on this forum. I trust you have read them so I will not repeat
them here. My biggest disappointment was the little to no support I received
from the USA Distributor. Their attitude seemed to be "you bought it, you
build it". If you would like to discuss this further, you can contact me
directly at hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
N661WW
--
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84808#84808
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB Kit? |
| From: | "ray" <johnogr(at)dcsi.net.au> |
Hi
I purchased a QB kit. A really nice plane but the assembly instruction manual
needs a lot of work. I was fortune enough to have had an assembled plane only
a half hours drive away. If i was to do it again i would purchase an Allegro
already to fly, the cheapest basic model, then purchase the extras later. To give
you an idea on the savings you can make ,i purchased the headlight in the
kit at a cost of $150 plus tax. The exact same light can be purchased at the harwre
store for $7.50
Ray
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85132#85132
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB Kit? |
| From: | "otrova" <escalantea(at)gmail.com> |
>
> Hi
> I purchased a QB kit. A really nice plane but the assembly instruction manual
needs a lot of work. I was fortune enough to have had an assembled plane only
a half hours drive away. If i was to do it again i would purchase an Allegro
already to fly, the cheapest basic model, then purchase the extras later. To give
you an idea on the savings you can make ,i purchased the headlight in the
kit at a cost of $150 plus tax. The exact same light can be purchased at the harwre
store for $7.50
> Ray
Thanks for the feedback Ray!
One concern... if I purchase a completed model, I believe I can not make the modifications
as you suggest, this would not be an Experimental Plane?
How could we have them improve the building manuals and support infrastructure
around it? Maybe the best option is something like the RV Forums, lot's of good
feedback and community help, but I guess you need critical mass to get it going...
and/or vendor support until it going.
Otrova
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85165#85165
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | BRS installation |
| From: | "parahawk" <alfi98596(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi everybody, I am new to this list.
I am planning to purchase a used Allegro 2000 and am thinking of installing a BRS.
Can anybody tell me how diffcult it is to install one in an registred and ready
built airplane and who could do such an installation.
I imagine the importer/distributor could do that but I read somewhere on this forum
that their service seems to very slow to say the least and there was a post
of somebody waiting a very long time for his installation.
I appreciate your input
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86514#86514
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | BRS installation |
| From: | "Tarek Beshara" <tab(at)troyergroup.com> |
Please take my name out of the list.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of parahawk
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:56 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: BRS installation
Hi everybody, I am new to this list.
I am planning to purchase a used Allegro 2000 and am thinking of
installing a BRS.
Can anybody tell me how diffcult it is to install one in an registred
and ready built airplane and who could do such an installation.
I imagine the importer/distributor could do that but I read somewhere on
this forum that their service seems to very slow to say the least and
there was a post of somebody waiting a very long time for his
installation.
I appreciate your input
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86514#86514
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | BRS installation |
Parahawk:
I am installing a BRS` system in my Allegro 2000 and can tell you many
things to consider and to be aware of. It is true that you will get little
to no real assistance from the USA Distributor. You will get more help from
the BRS people. I have worked directly with them and they have been very
helpful. If you want to contact me directly I can give you a lot of detail
information to help you make your decision. You can reach me at
hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
Hugh G. McKay III
Allegro 2000
N661WW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of parahawk
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:56 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: BRS installation
Hi everybody, I am new to this list.
I am planning to purchase a used Allegro 2000 and am thinking of installing
a BRS.
Can anybody tell me how diffcult it is to install one in an registred and
ready built airplane and who could do such an installation.
I imagine the importer/distributor could do that but I read somewhere on
this forum that their service seems to very slow to say the least and there
was a post of somebody waiting a very long time for his installation.
I appreciate your input
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86514#86514
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "parahawk" <alfi98596(at)yahoo.com> |
I am seriously considering getting into the Allegro.
I am asking myself is it worth it to get the NEW 2007 for $ 16,000 more or go for
a nice slightly used 2000.
Has anybody flown both models to tell objectively the difference.
Thanks
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89188#89188
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | OK for beginner ?? |
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
I am a student pilot for LSA, have about 3 hours on a C140 and 5 hours on a Kitfox
IV.
I am cosnidering purchasing a preowned Allegro 2000 to collect hours on my own
aircraft.
My choices are limited as far as insurance coverage for an LSA as student pilot,
it must be a factory built aircraft, I couldn't get it for an experimental.
Would you consider the Allegro 2000 to be a good beginner aircraft. ( compared
to a Kitfox IV for example, which is the only LSA compliant aircraft I really
know ) adverse yaw ??, stall behaviour ?? etc. Would appreciate your comments
because this would be a major investment for me and I sure don't want to regret
it.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91090#91090
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OK for beginner ?? |
Bernhard10,
The Allegro is a fine flying airplane and easy enough to learn to fly
in. I've never flown either a C 140 or a Kitfox IV but I would think
the Allegro flies more like a Kitfox than a C140 because of weight
similarities. The Allegro 2000 requires use of rudder in all turns but
if you are not used to a Piper Cherokee that can be flown without
rudder in most circumstances then that should not be an issue at all.
Personally, I think it is a good idea to learn to fly in an airplane
that requires rudder use to make all turns coordinated. Stall behavior
is quite benign. The glide ratio is much better than either a C140 or
Kitfox. The controls are light and the visibility is very good and the
seats are comfortable, which is not the case for many airplanes.
I have owned (or part owned) a Kolb Firestar, Zenith CH701, Titan
Tornado, Cherokee 140 and now the Allegro 2000 and flown many others
from Cubs to Mooneys. My two favorite of the bunch are the Kolb
Firestar because of its outstanding visibility due to its very low nose
cowl (engine in back) for low and slow sight seeing but its is too slow
for serious x-country flying. The other is the Allegro 2000 because of
its good handling, light controls, excellent performance, operating
economy and speed and comfort good enough for cross country flights.
This is probably the last airplane I'll ever own (part own actually)
and it suits me well.
I don't sell these airplanes so I have no monetary interest in getting
you to buy one. Where are you located?
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Allegro incident 2005 |
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
Has anybody specifics about this tragic incident in 2005:
HISTORY OF FLIGHT
On August 7, 2005, at an undetermined time, a Fantasy Air Allegro 2000 light sport
airplane, N9164M, registered to and operated by Sport Inc., as a 14 CFR Part
91 instructional flight, collided with the ground in the vicinity of Supply,
North Carolina. The airplane was located during an aerial search on August 7,
2005, at 1630. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan
was filed. The airplane received substantial damage. The flight instructor and
student pilot were fatally injured. The flight originated from Brunswick County
Airport, Oak Island, North Carolina, on August 7, 2005, at approximately 1030
eastern daylight time.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91748#91748
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro incident 2005 |
Go to the NTSB website http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp and search
using Allegro in "make/model" field and NC in "state" field. Click on
the "Full Narative Available" and that will take you to all that anyone
is likely to ever know about this accident.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MALCOLM STEWART" <malc.stewart(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro incident 2005 |
I have read the report on the NTSB web site and although it is very detailed
and informative, it does not give a possible reason for the accident.
I live in the UK so not familiar with NTSB reports, but is it normal not to
suggest a possible cause or is the investigation still continuing?
Malcolm in England
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro incident 2005 |
Malcom,
It has been my observation that NTSB issues two types of reports. One,
they call "Factual" of which type this particular report is. The other
type provides a probable cause. I have no idea why there are two types
or how they decide which type a particular accident merits. It is a
very interesting question. I will write them and ask this very
question. If/when I get an answer, I'll post it.
In what part of England are you located and are you an Allegro pilot?
My son-in-law is from Carlisle but teaches French here in Buffalo, New
York now.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro incident 2005 |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
After posting my previous email reply to Malcom, I went to the NTSB website and
found the answer to my question, as follows:
The NTSB aviation accident database contains information from 1962 and later about
civil aviation accidents and selected incidents within the United States,
its territories and possessions, and in international waters. Generally, a preliminary
report is available online within a few days of an accident. Factual
information is added when available, and when the investigation is completed,
the preliminary report is replaced with a final description of the accident and
its probable cause. Full narrative descriptions may not be available for dates
before 1993, cases under revision, or where NTSB did not have primary investigative
responsibility.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92240#92240
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MALCOLM STEWART" <malc.stewart(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Allegro incident 2005 |
Hello Thom
I am from Leicester which is pretty much in the middle of England and yes I
am an Allegro owner and am just finishing off a kit and waiting for UK
approval as this is the first Allegro in the UK. I am lucky enough to have
the new 2007 model as this will be a demonstrator as I am the UK
importer/distributor for Fantasy Air. The rules and regulation here in the
UK are very strict and need formal approval with both strength and flight
testing before approval is granted and is taking a lot more time than I had
hoped for.
I will keep the group posted with progress
Malc in England
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: 02 February 2007 12:55
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Allegro incident 2005
Malcom,
It has been my observation that NTSB issues two types of reports. One,
they call "Factual" of which type this particular report is. The other
type provides a probable cause. I have no idea why there are two types
or how they decide which type a particular accident merits. It is a
very interesting question. I will write them and ask this very
question. If/when I get an answer, I'll post it.
In what part of England are you located and are you an Allegro pilot?
My son-in-law is from Carlisle but teaches French here in Buffalo, New
York now.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MALCOLM STEWART" <malc.stewart(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro incident 2005Allegro incident 2005 |
Hello Thom
Thanks to your Email, I looked again at the NTSB site and I am not sure if I
missed it the first time or if has only just been added as the date says
01.31.2007, but there is now a report on the reason for the accident which
states inadvertently stalling the aircraft was the probable cause.
Although very tragic for the pilot and passenger who died in the accident
and in particular their families, I guess it is reassuring for the Allegro
community to know that it is was not a problem with the aircraft itself
Malcolm in England
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro incident 2005Allegro incident 2005 |
Malcom,
Apparently, the Probable Cause finding was posted very recently because
it was not there when I looked after you brought up the question. In my
experience, there are no inherent design problems in the Allegro that
would necessarily lead to mystery crashes. Spin training is no longer
required in the USA. Is it in England?
I've been in one inadvertent spin in our Allegro. I was trying to climb
up through a rather small hole in the broken overhead cloud deck to fly
over a Class C airspace instead of through it. The hole was so small
all my attention was outside the cockpit in order to avoid the clouds.
The result was that I was not paying close attention to the airspeed.
It stalled and entered a spin from which I recovered in less than one
complete turn. Since I had spin training back in the old days, it was a
non-event for me. But it proved to me that even with the quite loud
stall warning system in the Allegro, one has to pay attention to notice
it when you are distracted. The moral of course is never let yourself
be distracted from airspeed monitoring when close to the ground.
I hope the weather there in Mid-England is better than here today. 3F
this morning with a wind chill of -16F but bright and sunny. Last
night the Buffalo-Niagara Falls International Airport (KBUF) was
zero/zero for awhile with winds gusting to 40 knots.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MALCOLM STEWART" <malc.stewart(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro incident 2005Allegro incident 2005 |
Hello Thom
It is the same in the UK. Spin training is no longer part of the syllabus
but used to be and some of the "old school" instructors will demonstrate a
spin as they believe rather than just go to the incipient stage that a full
spin should ensure that most pilots will not want to go there or at least if
they know what to expect if they fly too slowly and out of balance. Glad to
hear the Allegro recovered within 1 turn. What input did you need, just
forward stick pressure or also opposite rudder and did you get close to Vne
during the recovery?
Aircraft spin testing is compulsory as part of the approval process in the
UK and I will let you know the official comments from the test pilot on the
Allegro spin behaviour, when that part of the flight testing comes up.
Here in central England it has been perfect flying weather for the weekend
with clear skies, little wind, good visibility and 50 deg F ! - Not usual
for this time of year
Malcolm in England
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro incident 2005Allegro incident 2005 |
Malcom,
I reduced power, neutralized aileron and elevator, applied opposite
rudder and it was over. The airspeed never got above 90 mph. It
recovers very quickly with the proper control inputs. Here is a link to
a video that demonstrates spin recovery. Good training video.
http://www.apstraining.com/clips/aggravatedspin_wmv_hispeed.wmv
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Just got my Allegro 2000 |
Parahawk,
Welcome to the list and congratulations. Tell us your name, location
and details about the Allegro you bought.
Thom in Buffalo
N221FA
Allegro 2000
s/n 03-202
Rotax 912UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning "horn" |
I also need more info on this subject to finisk my QBK . Have you had any sppply
problems with the us dist. in NC. My kit came with no part list and lots
of missing parts Thanks John Kepes 724-468-5482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'865#96865
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Windshield crazing |
| From: | "parahawk" <alfi98596(at)yahoo.com> |
When I purchased my aircraft, the dealer had another Allegro with 700 hours. The
upper right and left corner of the windshield had a lot of crazing,( fine cracks)
everywhere. I thought at first it might be due to permanent slight engine
vibrations, but after reading this article I have my doubts and it might result
from using the wrong cleaning products:
HERE IS AN EXERT OF THE ARTICLE:
First, most aircraft windows are acrylic plastic (as opposed to Lexan or Polycarbonate),
and acrylic plastic is scratchable. Proper care involves preventing
scratches that are preventable and properly taking care of those that are not.
When cleaning a window, always remove as much abrasive dirt as possible without
touching the surface. Ideally, this would involve flushing the surface with water
and allowing the accumulated bug residue to soak. After a final flushing
with more water and carefully drying with a clean soft cloth, use a good cleaner/polish
like Plexiclear for acrylic windows following the directions.
The good ones like Plexiclear or similar products, are those that are safe to
use on acrylic plastics. The bad ones, including the very dangerous, tend to be
materials never intended to be used as an aircraft window cleaner/polish, such
as glass cleaners.
Glass cleaners invariably contain ammonia which will kill acrylic plastics. DO
NOT use anything containing ammonia on acrylic plastics. It will cause crazing,
thousands of microscopic cracks, in short order. ...............................
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97893#97893
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning "horn" |
The number on my airspeed indicator is ... otk(03)
02.12.2005
And the face is marked Fantasy air (where product support and service is a fantasy)
If I can be of any help please Email or call anytime
John Kepes
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98867#98867
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB Kit? |
This is the worst kit manual I have ever seen The usa support SUCKS. once they
have your cash You will never see them again. my kit was missing lots of parts
that D bar d avation gave me only greif and no parts If a part inventory and
the parts were numbered This would have been simple to adress at time or
recipt of the kit but none are included. af far as the instructions go It may
be helpfull to do lots of drugs when building as this is the state in that
they were writen in.
Good luck John Kepes
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=98869#98869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Armando Escalante" <armando(at)tio.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB |
Kit?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB |
Kit?
Armando:
I do not know where you are physically located, but if it is in the USA, and
you buy a kit from a Dealer who obtains the kit through the US Distributor
(Fantasy Air USA) you are going to be very disappointed and frustrated with
what you get. I bought an Allegro 2000 QB Kit from them in December 2004 and
am just now getting the plane completed (27 months later). The problem is
not the plane, it is the Manufacturer (Fantasy Air, Pisek, Czech Republic),
and the US Distributor (Fantasy AIR USA, Sanford, NC). You will get little
to no support from these companies while you are trying to assemble your
plane. There is no parts list, so you don't know if you have all the parts
or not, and let me assure you, you will not get all the parts when the kit
arrives. To get the missing parts, after you finally realize that one or
more are missing will take months. Then there is the issue of the assembly
manual. It is pathetic! First it has been translated from the Czech language
into English. The translation is poor at best and will require you to do a
lot of deductive reasoning to figure out what you are supposed to do. I
could go on and on with the difficulties and problems I have had with the
USA Distributor. Basically they don't care one way or the other after they
get your money. So don't believe what they tell you. They are a bunch of car
salesmen (airplane in this case)! A word to the wise!
Hugh McKay III
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
Maiden, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Armando
Escalante
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a
QB Kit?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a QB |
Kit?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hugh McKay III
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: RE: Allegro-List: Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a
QB Kit?
Armando:
I do not know where you are physically located, but if it is in the USA, and
you buy a kit from a Dealer who obtains the kit through the US Distributor
(Fantasy Air USA) you are going to be very disappointed and frustrated with
what you get. I bought an Allegro 2000 QB Kit from them in December 2004 and
am just now getting the plane completed (27 months later). The problem is
not the plane, it is the Manufacturer (Fantasy Air, Pisek, Czech Republic),
and the US Distributor (Fantasy AIR USA, Sanford, NC). You will get little
to no support from these companies while you are trying to assemble your
plane. There is no parts list, so you don't know if you have all the parts
or not, and let me assure you, you will not get all the parts when the kit
arrives. To get the missing parts, after you finally realize that one or
more are missing will take months. Then there is the issue of the assembly
manual. It is pathetic! First it has been translated from the Czech language
into English. The translation is poor at best and will require you to do a
lot of deductive reasoning to figure out what you are supposed to do. I
could go on and on with the difficulties and problems I have had with the
USA Distributor. Basically they don't care one way or the other after they
get your money. So don't believe what they tell you. They are a bunch of car
salesmen (airplane in this case)! A word to the wise!
Hugh McKay III
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
Maiden, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Armando
Escalante
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Re: Any fedback on Allegro/Fantasy before I buy a
QB Kit?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/15/07 |
Hi Guys, not much going on with the "Allegro list"? I have been off line for
a while with all our belongings in storage and a house being built. We are
now moved in and back on line. I work with the Northeast dealer (NY, MA, CT,
VT). We have been fairly busy and have sold 3 planes in 06,and have set up a
flight school at 1B1 (Hudson NY). We use the Allegro for sport pilot
training and also it is avaliable for rent. We have an 07 model due in 3
weeks. The dealer is landlsportaviation.com
Fly safe
Bob Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: Allegro-List Digest Server <allegro-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 2:55 AM
Subject: Allegro-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/15/07
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Allegro-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Allegro-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
07-04-15&Archive=Allegro
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2007-04-15&Archive=Allegro
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Allegro-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 04/15/07: 0
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wing strut covers |
Can onyone tell me whitch strut goes on the left and the right side of the plane
and also what side faces up my strut tubes were not marked and i would
not like to build them backwards and upside down Thanks john kepes
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107923#107923
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/15/07 |
Have you sold any Q.B.K,s and what has been the feedback? I aint lovin mine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107924#107924
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | wing strut covers |
John:
As I remember, the struts themselves (not the covers) are marked on the ends
with a small letter in ink. As I remember, one letter is "L" and the other
is "P". Look carefully to see if you find these two letters. I believe "L"
is for left, and "P" is for right. Don't ask me why "P" means right. It is a
Czech thing! If you don't find these letters, let me know and I will try to
help you further. Once you identify which strut is the left one, and which
one is the right strut I can tell you how to identify which side faces up,
and which side faces down. Let me know if you find the letters.
Hugh McKay in NC
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Kepes
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:36 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: wing strut covers
Can onyone tell me whitch strut goes on the left and the right side of
the plane and also what side faces up my strut tubes were not marked and i
would not like to build them backwards and upside down Thanks john kepes
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107923#107923
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/15/07 |
Hi John and guys, The 3 planes we have sold have been SLSA's. I give
kit builders a lot of credit for taking on a project like this. I built
a Kolb MK3 from 92 to 95 (a bit over 1200 hrs-----somewhat modified).
Still flying it. While in the building process the help I got from other
builders on the "KOLB LIST" was priceless. As the Allegro is still
fairly new to the USA, there are probably a lot of people putting
together kits around the world. I would think that using the internet
technology and getting a list of builders from the manufacturer,
possibly one could get together more builders in a forum such as we have
here .(Allegro List). Try not to get too frustrated. The whole building
process is more like 2 or 3 steps ahead and 1 back. Keep in mind your
goal and remember that the 1st time your bird takes flight, with you at
the controls, will be etched into your memory for ever.
fly safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing strut covers |
found letters (very faint) Looking at the wing end the slot is longer on one side
than the other . I pesume that this is most likely the top Let me know
if i am correct Thanks 1M j.kepes
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108120#108120
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing strut covers |
John:
Glad you found the letters. You are incorrect concerning the slotted
(Forked) end. The forked end (wing end) of the strut tubes is slightly
rounded on the "top" side. This is the side that is closest to the wing
itself. The "bottom" side is the side you refer to as "longer". Be careful
before you drill any holes and rivet the strut covers on the tubes to orient
the crimped edge of the cover such that when each strut is placed on the
plane the crimped edge is on the underside of the covers. And make sure the
cover is pointed in the correct direction for each strut tube. Just take
your time, lay out the strut tubes and the covers as they will go on the
plane before you start drilling and you should be fine.
Hugh McKay in NC
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Kepes
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: Re: wing strut covers
found letters (very faint) Looking at the wing end the slot is longer on
one side than the other . I pesume that this is most likely the top Let
me know if i am correct Thanks 1M j.kepes
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108120#108120
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing strut covers |
thanks for the info this seems like a simple thing but if i screw up yhe struts
it will take forever to get replacements
J.kepes
N333CZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108284#108284
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
| Subject: | seat rivits wearing hole into fuel tank |
Hi Guys,
I know it was mentioned in the past but having experienced it , I
thought I would bring it up again. The rivets that hold the seat belt in
place on the bottom of the seat may wear a hole in the top of the fuel
tank. We have been smelling gas at times in the cockpit and have finally
found it during our annual insp. yesterday. It was intermittent as it
was only noticeable when the tank was full. One of the front seat rivets
wore into the fiberglass on the top of the tank producing a gouge (not
quite through) which allowed gas to get the carpet on top of the tank
wet and smell. Our fix was to slit the carpet with a razor knife and
fold it back. Then we mixed a 2 part epoxy, filled the area in and
around the gouge and applied a 1 1/2" fiberglass patch over the area and
applied more epoxy. No more smell. Then to avoid any future problems we
cut small squares of thick carpet and glued them in place around the
rivets so they did not contact the tank. I think Thom Riddle had
suggested this in the past ?
fly safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: seat rivits wearing hole into fuel tank |
Bob,
I was the one that mentioned this a year ago. I caught ours before any
real damage was done. I also glued thick carpet to the top of the tank
as sacrificial wear strips.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fantasy air code of conduct |
Any thoughts on yhe new fantasy air code of conduct for lsa pilot,s
My on thoughts are this is like yhe manson gang preaching non violence thank,s
john.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=111607#111607
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fantasy air code of conduct |
Their name says it all, Fantasy!
If they were serious about this they would submit to the voluntary ASTM
audit. Anyone noticed that only about 3 of the 40 or so SLSA
manufacturers have volunteered for the ASTM audit? The honor system is
not working. The FAA dropped the ball on this one. All the FAA had to
do was require a ONE TIME inspection and review ONE airplane and ONE
set of required documentation to receive the first S-LSA airworthiness
certificate, which would have cost virtually nothing to do but would
have assured conformance to the ASTM standards. The Allegro airplane
performance is excellent and does conform in that regard but its
documentation, as well as most (but not all) of the other SLSAs, comes
no where near conforming to the ASTM standards, and they know it.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Cleaning Fiberglass Surfaces |
I am interested in finding out what others are doing to clean the Woodcomp
prop surfaces and the fiberglass gelcoat surfaces of the Allegro 2000
fuselage, coweling, and wheel pants. Operating on a grass field causes all
kind of very small things to stick to these surfaces. Things like small
bugs (or parts of them), grass, and seemingly any other thing the prop blast
can throw back on take-off and landing. Once these little guys are dried
they stick like glue! Any special, or home made cleaning products out there
that work? I have heard that Avons Skin-So-Soft product will work,
however it is a mineral oil based product with other additives.
Hugh G. McKay in NC
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Fiberglass Surfaces |
Hi Hugh and gang, We have had good success using the Aeroshell
Products. You can look them up at
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=aviation-en&FC2=/aviation-
en/html/iwgen/aeroshell_site
We use the "touch and go"on the leading edge and "oil and exhaust
remover" under the belly and for gas streaks. Not that it matters but
the "touch and go" really smells great! For the prop "Simple green"(for
aircraft) works well also.
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Fiberglass Surfaces |
Hugh,
Skin-so-soft is a good product to keep bugs from biting you but I've
never tried it for cleaning off the critters when stuck to the
airplane. I use Simple Green for cleaning the leading edges of the
wings, the cowling, propellor spinner and blades after every flight
during the warm months when the bugs are prevalent. I also go once over
the same areas with a liquid wax, Turtle Wax in a spray bottle, after
every cleaning with Simple Green. The wax makes subsequent cleaning a
LOT easier. This whole process takes no more than five minutes as part
of the post flight once you've got the hard stuff off. We don't
normally clean the wheel pants after every flight because most of our
operations are from paved runways, but the same process should work
well here too.
We use Plexus for cleaning the windshield and windows. It is the best
product I've found for that but a bit expensive. A not quite as good
but much cheaper substitute is Pledge spray furniture cleaner. I used
that for years before discovering Plexus. On polycarbonate, do not use
circular strokes in cleaning for this can eventually cause swirls and
degrade the optic qualities. Fore and Aft strokes, not side to side,
are best.
We have gasoline stains along the left and bottom of the fuselage all
the way to the tail and have not had very good luck with anything to
get this off. Any ideas for this will be appreciated. We finally
figured out how to make the fuel cap seal well which stopped the
progression but have not been able to make much progress in getting rid
of the accumulated fuel stains.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | External ELT Antenna Location |
I have an ACK Technologies Model E-01 mounted in the belly (under the back
luggage compartment) of my Allegro 2000. Has any one used this type ELT,
and if so where have you mounted the external antenna on the Allegro 2000?
Hugh McKay in NC
Allegro 2000
N661WW
Rotax 912 UL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: External ELT Antenna Location |
Hugh,
We have an older model ACK ELT (the orange one) mounted on the top of
the luggage compartment deck just to the right of the flap motor box.
Our antenna is a simple telescoping one attached to the coax connector
with a 90 degree elbow (no cable) and it is telescoped toward the left
side of the airplane behind the pilot's seat. We like it mounted above
the baggage floor so we can reach it from the pilot's seat. I know it
works because we once inadvertently left it on parked inside the all
steel hangar and were called on the carpet about it by S and R.
My point is that with the primarily fiberglass body there appears to be
no real need to mount the antenna externally. You can buy one of these
little telescoping antenna from most avionics shops.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | External ELT Antenna Location |
Thom:
I have a telescoping antenna that came with the ACK E-01 ELT. The way I have
mounted the ELT in the belly allows me to use the telescoping antenna. The
unit and antenna are mounted such that when the antenna is extended it is
parallel to the centerline of the fuselage. The manufacturer states in his
installation and operation manual that the telescoping antenna is not
suitable for use in the aircraft. I don't understand why. They supply an
external antenna which they state "meets the requirements of TSO-C91a and
FAR 91.207". It is a quarterwave coil loaded monopole design meeting the
VSWR requirements and must be mounted externally on the aircraft. If I have
to mount it externally, the only practical and accessible location is on the
top of the left aluminum wing/fuselage covering that is between the wing and
the fuselage. I am unclear as to the FAA requirements concerning the two
types of antennas (i.e. doest the FAA require and external antenna). It
seems to me that the external antenna is more susceptible to being damaged,
or even having its connecting coaxial cable severed in an accident vs. the
telescoping antenna that is directly connected to the ELT itself. I would
appreciate some more input on this whole subject of ELT antennas.
Hugh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: External ELT Antenna Location
Hugh,
We have an older model ACK ELT (the orange one) mounted on the top of
the luggage compartment deck just to the right of the flap motor box.
Our antenna is a simple telescoping one attached to the coax connector
with a 90 degree elbow (no cable) and it is telescoped toward the left
side of the airplane behind the pilot's seat. We like it mounted above
the baggage floor so we can reach it from the pilot's seat. I know it
works because we once inadvertently left it on parked inside the all
steel hangar and were called on the carpet about it by S and R.
My point is that with the primarily fiberglass body there appears to be
no real need to mount the antenna externally. You can buy one of these
little telescoping antenna from most avionics shops.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: External ELT Antenna LocationExternal ELT Antenna Location |
Hugh,
I am not at all sure that the FAA has any specs. for the ELT antenna
and suspect they don't. They might have some performance specs for the
ELT as installed but I doubt they have a prescriptive formula for how
to accomplish it. That would be out of character for the FAA. I believe
they just want an ELT installed and functional, and don't really care
how it is done or whether or not the antenna is external or internal as
long as it works and does not cause problems with other com/nav
equipment, but can't point to a specific FAR that states that. Also, I
think equipment requirements for LSA are regulated by ASTM Standards
which I've read. To the best of my recollection there is no specific
requirement for any particular type of ELT antenna in the ASTM LSA
standards.
Function over Form.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | old style exhaust system |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Two questions about Allegro Exhaust system.
1) Does anyone else (besides me) have an earlier model Allegro with the old style
painted exhaust system that is NOT stainless steel? If so, what has been your
experience with it? In particular have you had the two rear cylinder exhaust
tubes crack and/or break?
2) Those of you who have the newer Stainless Steel exhaust system, have you had
any problems with it? In particular, have you had any cracks develop in any of
the exhaust tubes or elsewhere?
Thanks in advance for all responses.
Thom in Buffalo
Fly Lite, Inc.
Allegro 2000
#03-202
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112987#112987
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro Hydraulic Brakes |
Gentlemen:
I have determined that the right hydraulic brake unit on my Allegro 2000 is
slowly leaking brake fluid from the clearance between the slave cylinder
(piston) and the cylindrical bore in the finned housing. This fluid is
ending up on the brake pads and the disc itself. Eventually over time I
loose braking. I need to repair this unit. Not having seen this unit
disassembled, I dont know if the internal 0 ring seal (I assume it is an
0 ring) is mounted in a groove on the slave cylinder (piston) i.e. the 0
ring moves with the slave cylinder, or if the 0 ring seal is mounted in a
groove in the cylindrical wall of the finned housing i.e. the 0 ring does
not move when the slave cylinder moves.
Have any of you serviced, or do you know of some one who has serviced the
Allegro 2000 hydraulic brake units? If you have, can any one answer the
following questions for me:
1. What size O ring is used in the unit, and what type material is the O
ring made of? Where can they be obtained?
2. After removal of the finned piston unit from the wheel and disc, and
after removing the 90 brass fitting from the end of the finned piston
unit, can the large hex nut on the end of the finned cylinder casing be
removed to extract the internal cylindrical piston? If so, how is the slave
piston extracted and replaced after a new 0 ring seal is installed
(assuming an 0 ring is used to make the seal)?
3. Are there any other internal parts that could be damaged that would cause
the fluid to slowly leak?
4. There are locking retainers used at the points where the disc itself is
bolted on to the wheel. Where can these small retainers be obtained?
I have asked the US Distributor (Fantasy Air USA) these same questions, but
have received no clear answer to either question. I have contacted
Evektor-Aerotechnik a.s. (the brake manufacturer) in the Czech Republic and
they can supply parts to me. But before I order any parts from
Evektor-Aerotechnik I want to be sure I can indeed fix the brake unit. I
would appreciate anyones help in this matter.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Hydraulic Brakes |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Hugh,
I've had one of the older brake units apart and can answer some of your questions.
The newer brakes have a different type of bleed system (probably like yours)
but should not have any affect on what you are doing.
1. What size O ring is used in the unit, and what type material is the O ring
made of? Where can they be obtained?
I did not measure the oring so cannot tell you its size. I don't know the material
but whatever works for brake fluid should be fine.
2. After removal of the finned piston unit from the wheel and disc, and after
removing the 90 brass fitting from the end of the finned piston unit, can the
large hex nut on the end of the finned cylinder casing be removed to extract
the internal cylindrical piston? If so, how is the slave piston extracted and
replaced after a new 0 ring seal is installed (assuming an 0 ring is used to
make the seal)?
The hex "plug" is a standard right hand thread (CCW to remove). The oring is accessible
after removing the hex. The oring seat/groove is in the housing, not
the slave piston. The slave piston floats inside the cylinder and is mounted on
a diaphragm (if my memory does not fail me). If my memory is correct about the
diaphragm, then it may be the source of the leak if the leak is on the disk
side of the cylinder and not the pressure/supply side. The o-ring is the seal
against leaking thru the supply side.
3. Are there any other internal parts that could be damaged that would cause
the fluid to slowly leak?
See #2 above.
4. There are locking retainers used at the points where the disc itself is bolted
on to the wheel. Where can these small retainers be obtained?
We replaced ours with standard external star type locking washers and they work
just fine. We check these periodically because they are not positive locking
devices like the bend over tabs. In over a year and 150+ hours since we did the
brake work, the star washers have not lossened at all.
We ended up replacing the whole expensive slave cylinder unit because of another
unrelated problem and still have the old unit somewhere in the hangar. I will
look for it on next trip to hangar and take a closer look inside to verify my
aging memory on the diaphragm, if there is one. Once you take yours apart to
determine where yours is leaking you can make the measurements you need. I've
had good luck finding all sorts of parts for all things mechanical from McMaster-Carr.com
but you may be able to find the proper oring from a local autoparts
store. Since so many of the cars on the road today are metric you might be
able to find the right size oring locally. Our old oring is still good but we
don't want to part with it in case we need a replacement.
I hope this helps a bit. Let me know how it works out. I'd be curious what the
Evector-Aerotchnik folks charge for parts. The used but servicable unit that Fantasy
Air found for us (in the Bahamas) was outrageously expensive for such a
unit. I don't recall the price but it was high.
On another subject about prices. We had some impact damage to our windshield so
I called Doug Hempstead for a price for replacement. They want $410 for a sheet
of Lexan that is not even cut to size. I found a sheet at McMaster-Carr for
$81. If the Fantasy Air part had been already cut to size with finished edges,
I'd say it would be worth perhaps as much as $200 for the labor savings but
not $410 for a blank sheet!
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116601#116601
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Hydraulic Brakes |
Thom:
I received a reply directly from Evektor-Aerotechnik s.r.o. They responded
very quickly and told me they could indeed help me. They are the
manufacturer of the brakes used on the Allegro 2000. In fact they sent me a
pdf file drawing of the brake showing all the internal parts. For your
information I am forwarding you a copy of the drawing in a separate email.
If others would like a copy of this drawing I will be glad to send it to
them. It appears from the drawing that the O-ring material is EPDM 70SH. I'm
not sure what EPDM or 70SH is, maybe you do. The size of the two O-rings
(inner and outer) is given on the drawing. The rubber boot or cup that fits
the internal piston is also specified as CSN 02 9272. Again this is a
mystery to me.
Anyway, from the drawing it appears that maybe only the outer O-ring may be
leaking, but for brake fluid reach the outer O-ring it would have to get by
the rubber boot, so maybe the boot as well as the outer O-ring is leaking.
The inner O-ring is behind the internal piston and keeps fluid from leaking
backwards and coming out around the large Hex nut where the 90 brass
fitting is located. I have no leaks in this area, so this O-ring is OK.
Here is the "kicker". Evektor wants $75.00US for the two O-rings and the
rubber boot, plus the cost of shipping from the Czech Republic!! Absolutely
ludicrous!!! I am first going to try to find the outer O-ring here, and
replace it first. Since it is a metric size, I should be able to find it. I
just need to know what EPDM 70SH stands for. I won't know if I have to
replace the internal rubber boot until I replace the outer O-ring and
assemble the unit so I can test it without putting it back on the plane. I
will have to figure out how to do this. If the unit leaks after replacing
the outer O-ring, I will have to "pay the price" and purchase the two
O-rings and boot and replace all of them. I just hope the plunger (the part
that is pushed out to contact the brake pad) is not scored. If it is, then I
have another problem.
Anyway, that is what I KNOW AT THE MOMENT. I'LL KEEP EVERYONE INFORMED AS TO
WHAT HAPPENS. I have never overhauled a hydraulic disc brake unit so I am in
unknown territory.
Hugh McKay in NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Thom Riddle
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 6:10 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: Re: Allegro Hydraulic Brakes
Hugh,
I've had one of the older brake units apart and can answer some of your
questions. The newer brakes have a different type of bleed system (probably
like yours) but should not have any affect on what you are doing.
1. What size O ring is used in the unit, and what type material is
the O ring made of? Where can they be obtained?
I did not measure the oring so cannot tell you its size. I don't know the
material but whatever works for brake fluid should be fine.
2. After removal of the finned piston unit from the wheel and disc, and
after removing the 90 1/2 brass fitting from the end of the finned piston
unit, can the large hex nut on the end of the finned cylinder casing be
removed to extract the internal cylindrical piston? If so, how is the slave
piston extracted and replaced after a new 0 ring seal is installed
(assuming an 0 ring is used to make the seal)?
The hex "plug" is a standard right hand thread (CCW to remove). The oring is
accessible after removing the hex. The oring seat/groove is in the housing,
not the slave piston. The slave piston floats inside the cylinder and is
mounted on a diaphragm (if my memory does not fail me). If my memory is
correct about the diaphragm, then it may be the source of the leak if the
leak is on the disk side of the cylinder and not the pressure/supply side.
The o-ring is the seal against leaking thru the supply side.
3. Are there any other internal parts that could be damaged that would
cause the fluid to slowly leak?
See #2 above.
4. There are locking retainers used at the points where the disc itself is
bolted on to the wheel. Where can these small retainers be obtained?
We replaced ours with standard external star type locking washers and they
work just fine. We check these periodically because they are not positive
locking devices like the bend over tabs. In over a year and 150+ hours since
we did the brake work, the star washers have not lossened at all.
We ended up replacing the whole expensive slave cylinder unit because of
another unrelated problem and still have the old unit somewhere in the
hangar. I will look for it on next trip to hangar and take a closer look
inside to verify my aging memory on the diaphragm, if there is one. Once you
take yours apart to determine where yours is leaking you can make the
measurements you need. I've had good luck finding all sorts of parts for all
things mechanical from McMaster-Carr.com but you may be able to find the
proper oring from a local autoparts store. Since so many of the cars on the
road today are metric you might be able to find the right size oring
locally. Our old oring is still good but we don't want to part with it in
case we need a replacement.
I hope this helps a bit. Let me know how it works out. I'd be curious what
the Evector-Aerotchnik folks charge for parts. The used but servicable unit
that Fantasy Air found for us (in the Bahamas) was outrageously expensive
for such a unit. I don't recall the price but it was high.
On another subject about prices. We had some impact damage to our windshield
so I called Doug Hempstead for a price for replacement. They want $410 for
a sheet of Lexan that is not even cut to size. I found a sheet at
McMaster-Carr for $81. If the Fantasy Air part had been already cut to size
with finished edges, I'd say it would be worth perhaps as much as $200 for
the labor savings but not $410 for a blank sheet!
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116601#116601
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Hydraulic Brakes |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
Hugh,
The CSN 02 9272, I assume is merely a part number and means nothing to me. EPDM is the type of material (ethylene propylene diene monomer) and is in common use for many applications. The 70 is probably the inside diameter of the o-ring in mm. I have no idea what the SH specificies but do know that o-rings go by material, inside diameter, and thickness. I GOOGLED "epdm 70sh" and found lots of references to it in parts lists for all kinds of things, including expresso machines, mostly from manufacturers in eastern Europe. You may be able to find this part from an American distributor of some of these manufacturers. You may also want to try the Evektor Aircraft (SLSA) importer. They may have them in stock and could be cheaper. I think this brake system is used on several of the eastern European manufacturered LSA, so if Evektor America http://www.evektoramerica.com/ does not stock them you might want to try some of the others listed at http://sportpilot.org/learn/slsa/
For future reference here are standard o-ring size charts
metric o-ring sizes:
http://www.lutzsales.com/metric_o-ring_sizes.pdf
American Standard o-ring sizes:
http://www.lutzsales.com/standard_o-ring_sizes.pdf
Please keep us posted on what you learn as we may all need this information in
time.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116844#116844
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Hydraulic Brakes - Update |
Hi Everyone. Many thanks to all of you for the input to my brake problem. I
am well on the way to getting it fixed. Here is what has happened so far.
First of all I want to thank Dave Grosvenor for the suggestion that I
contact Evektor CZ, and EvektorAmerica concerning the brake system itself,
as Evektor CZ is the manufacturer of the brake system used on the Allegro.
After contacting the US Allegro Distributor (Fantasy Air USA) asking for
help and getting absolutely no help what so ever, I contacted both Evektor
CZ, and EvektorAmerica in Texas. Both Evektor CZ and EvektorAmerica
responded immediately. They gave me photographs and a cross section drawing
of the brake caliper showing all the internal parts and advised me of what
my problem probably was (bad O-ring or piston seal cup. They even gave me
a written procedure for removing the seals and installing new ones. I was
also concerned that the DOT 4 brake fluid I was using may be harmful to the
seal material, however they advised that the same type brake fluid was used
in their planes in Europe, and was fully compatible with the EDPM material
used in the seals. Because the leaking fluid had over time saturated the
brake pads on the right brake I was advised by the brake fluid manufacture
to replace the pads, and not reuse them.
The only other issue was the price. Unfortunately the price for two O-rings
and the piston cup shipped from Evektor CZ to me here in the States was
$75.00 US and it would take weeks for them to get here. At that point I
contacted EvektorAmerica with the same problem and was able to get the
O-rings, piston cups, disc tab washers for both wheels, and two
replacement brake pads for the right wheel from them in Texas for $68.00
including shipping. So I purchased everything from our Texas friends,
EvektorAmerica. Again, many thanks to you Dave for pointing me in the right
direction, and to you Thom, Etienne, and others for the technical advice as
to the possible cause. I will post the brake rebuild procedure received from
Evektor CZ on the Forum List for the benefit of all. What we do and
communicate on this forum is the lifeblood to many of us Allegro owners.
Thanks again. Thom, I enjoyed you latest article in EAA Sport Pilot Mag. To
Rent or Own. Based on your assumptions and costs the break-even point
between owning and renting is about 80 hours of flight time. But, if you
just want to own the darn thing and fly when you want to all this is a
mute point.
Hugh McKay in NC
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
I have a Woodcomp Klassic 160/3/R on my Allegro 2000. I notice that the
leading edge of the prop blades have some type protective tape covering
them. I also notice in the manufacturers installation instructions a
statement that when operating in aggressive conditions or on unimproved
runways (i.e. grass strips) it is necessary to protect the leading edge with
a special tape. I have two questions:
1. What is this special tape?
2. Where does one get it if needed?
3. How does one know when to replace it?
4. If a prop of this type is nicked on the leading edge, can it be repaired?
5. If it can be repaired, what is the method, and can the owner do it?
6. On my prop this tape is carried out to the blade tip and around the
curved end. The centrifugal force of the prop rotation is causing the tape
to begin to separate (creep) from the end of the prop blades. This seems to
me to be inefficient and could cause out of balance vibrations. Any
comments?
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp Prop |
Hugh,
We have the same prop on our Allegro but there is no leading edge tape.
We operate mostly from paved runways but also fly into unimproved ones
with some frequency. The leading edge of our prop continues to get
nicks and chips.
1. Many prop leading edge protective tapes are made of polyurethane.
2. PowerFin Props (in USA) makes one of the best products for leading
edge protection.
3. When the tape looks like it has taken all the abuse it can and is no
longer protecting the prop.
4. Yes, it is important to repair these nicks.
5. I contacted Woodcomp about what to use for these repairs and was
told to use either epoxy or polyester resins to fill the nicks. I have
and continue to use epoxy because we have some on hand. Fill the nicks
a little higher than the surrounding surface, let cure completely, then
sand down to conform to profile and polish edge. The owner can do it.
6. Balance is critical for smooth operation. Do whatever you have to do
to make sure the same amount of tape is still on each blade by trimming
or replacing the tape.
For what its worth, if our prop gets full of resin on the edges, we
will consider replacing it with a different manufacturer's prop. Two of
the most rugged and ones are Warp Drive (a good bit heavier than
Woodcomp) and the GSC props with their extremely hard material imbedded
in the leading edge of their wooden blades. I've never seen a Warp
Drive prop with any leading edge damage. I've owned and flown a GSC
prop (from BC Canada) on another airplane with pusher engine
installation (Titan Tornado) where the prop picks up all kinds of stuff
from the main wheels of the aircraft and the leading edge protection
never showed any damage. The GSC wooden props are a good bit lighter
than the Warp Drive. PowerFin also makes a very good very light prop
but it needs periodic replacement of the leading edge protection. All
the homebuilders I know who have all three of these props are very
happy with them.
http://www.powerfin.com/
http://www.warpdriveprops.com/
http://www.ultralightprops.com/tech_series_props/
gsc_tech_groundadjust.htm
I hope this helps.
Thom in Buffalo
From: "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Woodcomp Prop
I have a Woodcomp Klassic 160/3/R on my Allegro 2000. I notice that the
leading edge of the prop blades have some type protective tape
covering
them. I also notice in the manufacturers installation
instructions a
statement that when operating in aggressive conditions or on
unimproved
runways (i.e. grass strips) it is necessary to protect the
leading edge with
a special tape. I have two questions:
1. What is this special tape?
2. Where does one get it if needed?
3. How does one know when to replace it?
4. If a prop of this type is nicked on the leading edge, can it
be repaired?
5. If it can be repaired, what is the method, and can the owner
do it?
6. On my prop this tape is carried out to the blade tip and
around the
curved end. The centrifugal force of the prop rotation is causing
the tape
to begin to separate (creep) from the end of the prop blades.
This seems to
me to be inefficient and could cause out of balance vibrations.
Any
comments?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel drain valve |
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
I don't like the screw type fuel drain valve on my Allegro 2000 ( get fuel all
over my hands every time I have to open it ) and I would like to exchange it for
a quick push type fuel drain valve I am used to.
Has anybody done that before, and if so, do you know the right diameter or make
and model to fit right in ??
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121244#121244
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel drain valve |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <thomriddle(at)roadrunner.com> |
Bernhard,
I complained about this very thing to the USA importer about a year ago. Their
"solution" was to send me a 1/8 NPT threaded Curtis Quick Drain valve six months
after my complaint, for which they charged me a 100% premium over what I would
have had to pay here locally. They did this even after I told them that the
female fitting in the bottom of the fuel tank was NOT 1/8 NPT but some sort
of straight thread, not tapered pipe thread. The dealer I bought the airplane
from said he struggled with this for some time and could not figure out what
thread series it was but was certain that it was not metric.
So, I drained the tank and took some careful measurements of the obviously straight
threads, including pitch, and looked up all the possible thread series I
could find. As it turns out, the fitting in the bottom of the tank is 1/8 British
Straight Pipe Thread. So I bought an adapter (1/8 BSPT male to 1/8 NPT female)
from some source online (can't remember who). Once we installed the adapter
the Curtis Quick Drain valve fit perfectly.
Our Allegro 2000 is a 2003 year model and I have no idea if the factory has changed
these fittings to something else in the interim, so I can't guarantee that
this will solve your problem. The USA importer still insists that the fitting
in the tank of our airplane is 1/8 NPT, but it just isn't so.
I hope this helps. Please advise the list when you find your solution letting us
all know what that solution was and which year model Allegro it was on. We cannot
depend upon the USA importer or the factory to keep us informed or supply
us with this sort of required technical information.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121373#121373
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel drain valve |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <thomriddle(at)roadrunner.com> |
Bernhard,
I think I gave you the wrong acronym for the British STRAIGHT Pipe Thread. I told
you BSPT but I think it is BSPP. I think the T in BSPT is "Tapered". At any
rate, make sure you get the STRAIGHT pipe thread, whatever the acronym is for
it.
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121374#121374
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel drain valve |
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
My Allegro 2000 is a 2006 with 56 hours so far. I won't get to investigate the
thread issue for 2 weeks because I am on a business trip.
Thank you very much for your very helpful info and I will sure get back to the
list once I have found out the thread standard.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121385#121385
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp Prop |
Good morning Hugh and guys, I can't answer your questions without doing
further research but I can tell you our tape came loose on the tips and
we trimmed it back very carefully, cutting only the tape, using a
sheetrock knife and it was alot neater and stayed put. Our new 07 model
should arrive in the US in a week.
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
When I switch off the auxiliary electrical fuel pump the instrument reading drops
to nearly 0 before coming up again very slowly but doesnt read quite 0.2 with
the mechanical pump. Is this a reason for concern ??
Also the fuel gauge starts jumping all over the place at about 2/3 or full. The
needle oscillates between empty and full. Does anybody else experience the
same problem ??
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124604#124604
________________________________________________________________________________
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125204#125204
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
Does anybody use a tow bar. If so, which one are you using ??
I would like to find out if a regular tow bar with adjustable fork will fit the
allegro 2000 ?
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125265#125265
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
I made a tow bar from a piece of 1" square aluminum tube and a piece of
all-thread that just fits through the nose wheel axle hole for a total
cost of less than $10. It works fine, is light weight, and easily stows
in the baggage compartment if needed for overnight flights.
I don't remember for sure what the diameter of the all-thread is but
believe it is 3/4". I drilled two holes in the 1" square tube, one for
the nose gear all-thread (about 12" long to go all the way through the
axle hole), and the other for the handle all-thread (about 8" long) at
ninety degrees from the first hole so the handle sticks up when the
tow-bar is in use to make it easier to steer the nose wheel. I wrapped
a piece of foam rubber around the handle and duck taped it in place to
make the handle more comfortable. A piece of pipe insulation would work
as well or better. I used hex nuts and lock washers on both sides of
the 1" square tube to clamp the all-threads in place. I made the 1"
square tube short enough so that with one hand on the handle the other
is comfortably located on the prop blade near the hub for pushing or
pulling.
Next time I go to the hangar I'll take a couple photos and post them
here.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
We use the tow bar from Fantasy Air. Works fine!
Bob Griffin Berne NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks a lot for your input.
I look forward seeing the pics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125343#125343
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Attached are a couple photos of the tow bar I built. The photos plus my previous
description should be sufficient to build something similar. This is more a
Steering Bar than a tow bar since I use my hand on the prop near the hub for pushing/pulling
while steering with this home-made bar.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125492#125492
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00381_185.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00380_132.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
Well, I installed a new fuel pump and things are Ok again, Readings from the electrical
and mechanical are nearly identical.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126193#126193
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the pics, I'll be working on a similar tow bar next week
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126194#126194
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tires for Allegro |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
In the nearly two years we've had our Allegro, we've had about 7 or 8 flat tires,
some from punctures from cotter pins, safety wire etc. but also two outright
tire failures. I was on the verge of replacing them all with 600-6 6-ply aircraft
tires instead of these junk wheel barrow tires that they put on at the factory.
Unfortunately, the 600-6 standard aircraft tires will not fit in the wheel
pants.
The good news, MAYBE, is that I found 400-6 6 ply Aero Classic Tires from Desser.com
and ordered three today. I'm reasonably certain they will fit the pants
and since they are deep tread aircraft tires with 6-ply construction they should
last a long time on the Allegro. They are tubeless tires so I also ordered
three tubes since the split hub wheels on our airplanes won't hold air.
I'll let you know how they work out.
400-6 6 PLY AERO CLASSIC LSA TIRE TUBELESS
Unit Price In Shopping Cart
43.95
Our New Light Sport Tire, 400-6 6 Ply with a Deep Aircraft Type Tread
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127209#127209
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
My white tape used on the composite joints is cracked in a few places, does anybody
know what replacement tape I could use ??
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128690#128690
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
I bought #471 vinyl tape made by 3M. Aircraft Spruce carries it but not in white.
I found white at McMaster-Carr.com It is not cheap but a roll should last
quite a while.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128713#128713
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks a lot Tom, this was a great help ( and that's not the first time)
Bernhard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128753#128753
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
Hi Guys, went to North Carolina to fly back a new 2007 Allegro with a
customer Thursday. Due to afternoon rain there, along with 104* temps,
and the weather moving through NY on Friday, we finally got out of there
on Saturday aroung noon. Stopping once for fuel, we made it to Freehold
Airport in the Catskills, 6.2 hr. flight. The 16.5 gal. tank came in
handy. We burned 4 gph at 4800 rpm and were seeing around 100mph the
way the prop was pitched with the 80 hp. The new doors on the "07" model
are real nice. Our new demo plane that came in stayed in South Carolina
as that was sold also. We now have another 07 on order along with a
"Sport Cruiser and a Cessena LSA. The Allegros are really starting to
market as they are being seen out there. Fly Safe
Bob Griffin Berne NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor - DreamWings" <dave(at)dreamwings.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 08/13/07 |
Hi Bob
What's the adverse yaw like on the 2007 model. I haven't had a chance to fly
one and would be interested if you still have to work the rudder like the
2000 model.
Regards
Dave
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net>
> Subject: Allegro-List: new 2007
>
> Hi Guys, went to North Carolina to fly back a new 2007 Allegro with a
> customer Thursday. Due to afternoon rain there, along with 104* temps,
> and the weather moving through NY on Friday, we finally got out of there
> on Saturday aroung noon. Stopping once for fuel, we made it to Freehold
> Airport in the Catskills, 6.2 hr. flight. The 16.5 gal. tank came in
> handy. We burned 4 gph at 4800 rpm and were seeing around 100mph the
> way the prop was pitched with the 80 hp. The new doors on the "07" model
> are real nice. Our new demo plane that came in stayed in South Carolina
> as that was sold also. We now have another 07 on order along with a
> "Sport Cruiser and a Cessena LSA. The Allegros are really starting to
> market as they are being seen out there. Fly Safe
>
>
> Bob Griffin Berne NY
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
My fuel tank is leaking, specially when it's full. Does anybody have the same
problem and if so, is there a fix for it.
Also when the tank is 3/4 full ( or less) the needle of the fuel gauge jumps all
over the place from empty to full. Accurate or for that matter even approx.
reading is impossible.
thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129276#129276
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Bernhard,
Are you referring to the fuel cap leaking in the main fuel tank located below the
seats? If so, then remove the cap and notice that there is a screw or nut
(can't remember which) in the center on the inside. Adjusting this will make
the seal against the tank inlet either tighter or looser. It requires a little
finesse to get it just right. Too tight and the locking lever won't close or
is too hard to open. Too loose and the seal leaks. I struggled with this problem
for over a year before finally figuring this out. Now, no leaks.
If you are referring to wing tanks, I don't know what to tell you. Our Allegro
does not have them nor do we need them. I have a 2 1/2 hour bladder which pretty
much requires me to stop for personal relief with one hour of fuel remaining
in the main tank.
The fuel gauge is wildly inaccurate and begins to swing around in flight after
burning off the first 4-5 gallons. I never trust any fuel gauge in any airplane
unless I've calibrated it. Actually, I don't calibrate/fix the inaccuracies.
Instead, I empty the tank and add back two gallons at a time and note the position
of the needle on the gauge at every two gallon interval and note those readings
in our flight manual which is a home-made, small format affair in a small
three-ring binder we keep at hand. Then, I use this only as a gross indication
of fuel remaining. For better accuracy I depend upon elapsed time and known
fuel consumption rate for more precise fuel remaining calculations.
Back in the late 60s I flew a Mooney on a night flight from Atlanta to Miami non-stop
w/ three passengers and landed with less than 20 minutes remaining of fuel,
based on fuel added, due to an unexpected diversion I had to make in-flight.
That is by far the closest I've ever come to running out of fuel in flight.
It scared me enough that I stop for fuel no later than one hour remaining, no
matter what.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129281#129281
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
Hi guys, as far as the fuel tank leak, loosen the seat belts all the
way to get the seat out of the way. Carefully feel and smell the carpet
on top of the tank for gas. What happens is the rivits under the seat
tend to wear on the top of the fiberglass tank . We cut the carpet with
a 5" slit to expose the wet area and mixed up an expoxy solution and
covered the worn area. Before positioning the seat back we padded around
the rivits with a 2" piece of carpet with a dime size hole in the middle
glued around the rivits. Problem fixed. Thom Riddle had talked about
this also on the list. Good luck. Also in
regards to the question on rudder with the "07 model", I think they did
something with the linkage of the rudder which was an improvement. I
didnt experiment much with adverse yaw but I didnt seem to sense any
problem. Still a plane you cant fly with your feet on the floor.
Fly safe Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
Due to the cooler temperatures here in the NW my oil temps stay mostly on the cool
side and it take a pretty long warm up period to reach the min. temp..
I decided to buy and Oil thermostat from CPS ( see attached pic )
I am curious if anybody is using this thermostat and if so, how & where did you
mount it ??
Some pictures would greatly help.
Thanks in advance
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132550#132550
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_therm_208.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks - Fill/Drain Procedure |
Gentlemen:
I have aluminum wing tanks on my Allegro 2000, but have not yet used them. I
have a number of questions relative to using these tanks. If any of you have
wing tanks, what is the procedure you follow to fill the two tanks. Also
what is the procedure to follow to drain them back to the main belly tank? I
assume you use the electric fuel pump to fill the wing tanks, pumping fuel
from the main tank to one wing tank, and then to the other wing tank. How do
you know when the tank is full? Can you see fuel returning to the main tank
through the clear overflow line? How long does it take to fill one tank
using the electric fuel pump? I also assume you do this pumping using the
battery with the engine off. Correct?
If you are flying and you need the fuel from the wing tanks, I assume you
cut the electric fuel pump off and open each wing tank valve to drain back
to the main tank. The two wing tanks combined hold aprx.10 gallons (5
gallons each). If you start draining the 10 gallons before you have enough
empty volume in the main tank, what happens when the main tank fills? Does
it fill over the lip of the fuel tank cap on the side of the plane? When you
normally fill the main tank you can never fill the tank higher than the lip
of the cap opening (i.e. this is a full tank!). I am somewhat confused about
this whole matter, and would appreciate some guidance and direction.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912 UL
N661WW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks - Fill/Drain Procedure |
Hugh
Your assumptions are correct.
The valve has 3 positions - 12 o'clock pump up, 3 normal flight, 6 drain down.
I made a color coded decal for the 3 positions.
Fill the belly tank. Engine off, set valve to pump up and switch on pump. Open
1 wing tank valve. It takes about 10-15 mins to fill a tank. When full, the transparent
tubes fill with fuel and recirculate back to the belly tank. Set valve
back to normal flight and switch off pump..
In flight, open both wing valves and set to drain down. I think some of the fuel
goes direct to the engine so the belly will appear to refill slowly.
I refill when my guage shows 25 litres or 6.7 gall and stop at 40 litres (10.8
gall) because my guage shows full at 40 litres. Do this twice in flight. Return
the valve to normal flight.
We measuresd the usable capacity as 18.7 for each wing tank.
I have never overfilled the belly tank. I think it would overflow out of the overflow
tube if the filler cap seal is good.
Note there is a recent Rotax mandatory about electric pumps and certain serial
numbers of Rotax mechanical pumps.
The tanks are expensive and a little fiddly to use but give the plane huge range
and a safety margin for a divert
Regards
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132620#132620
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Thermostat |
Hi Bernhard, (there was no name on your post?) We are in the NE and
run our Allegro in the cold temps. Last fall we had our mechanic install
the thermostst you bought, on our 912s. We got it from Lockwood. I flew
the plane alot (demos and shows) and can tell you it made a hugh
difference. Oil temps came up to operating range in 5 min. not 15. In
flight temps run 182* - 184*. Right where you want to be to displace
moisture. I was not there when the mech did the installation but I know
we needed more oil line. The owner may have taken photos, I'm not sure?
He may be able to help you out more as he was there when it was
installed. His name is Lee Ramsdell. You can contact him at
landlsportaviation.com I also read something recently about trying not
to use 90* elbows which may restrict flow. You may want to check with
Rotax in regards to that? Bob Griffin
Berne NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Griffin" <airgriff(at)surferz.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Thermostat |
Hi Bernhard, (there was no name on your post?) We are in the NE and
run our Allegro in the cold temps. Last fall we had our mechanic install
the thermostst you bought, on our 912s. We got it from Lockwood. I flew
the plane alot (demos and shows) and can tell you it made a hugh
difference. Oil temps came up to operating range in 5 min. not 15. In
flight temps run 182* - 184*. Right where you want to be to displace
moisture. I was not there when the mech did the installation but I know
we needed more oil line. The owner may have taken photos, I'm not sure?
He may be able to help you out more as he was there when it was
installed. His name is Lee Ramsdell. You can contact him at
landlsportaviation.com I also read something recently about trying not
to use 90* elbows which may restrict flow. You may want to check with
Rotax in regards to that? Bob Griffin
Berne NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Thermostat |
Bernhard10,
I bought the identical oil thermostat from Summit Racing and installed
it over a year ago. Next time I'm at the hangar and have the lower
cowling off, I'll take some photos of my installation. It was a tight
fit but it works pretty well.
It speeds up the warmup period and helps keep the oil temperature up
closer to normal in low power situations. Keep in mind it is always
open at least part of the way(10% or so) even in cold weather so that
there is some oil flowing through the oil cooler at all times. It
should be wide open by the time it reaches 180F so above that
temperature it will just as if there was no thermostat installed. Below
180F it gradually closes down to keep the oil from getting much cooler
than that. On ours, at very low power settings the oil temperature runs
around 170F now, much lower before the installation.
I'll give you some pointers when I get and post the photos of how we
did it.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Thermostat |
| From: | "Bernhard10" <tiloxy(at)gmail.com> |
Thank you so much for your input. and yes I look forward to the pictures so I
can get the installation going. I want to combine it with my oil change which
is pretty much due.
I also read somewhere to avoid 90 degree elbows, that's why I ordered the straight
fittings and hope they will do the job.
Looking forward to learn some more and see some installation pics, fly safe
Bernhard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132681#132681
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks - Fill/Drain Procedure |
Paul:
If it takes 15 min.+/- to fill one tank what is happening to the fuel that
is being pumped to the engine carbs. during these 15 min.? For both tanks
you will be running off the battery for a total of 30 min. +/-. Any problem
with this?
Hugh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Aero Siam
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:49 AM
Subject: Allegro-List: Re: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks - Fill/Drain Procedure
Hugh
Your assumptions are correct.
The valve has 3 positions - 12 o'clock pump up, 3 normal flight, 6 drain
down. I made a color coded decal for the 3 positions.
Fill the belly tank. Engine off, set valve to pump up and switch on pump.
Open 1 wing tank valve. It takes about 10-15 mins to fill a tank. When full,
the transparent tubes fill with fuel and recirculate back to the belly tank.
Set valve back to normal flight and switch off pump..
In flight, open both wing valves and set to drain down. I think some of the
fuel goes direct to the engine so the belly will appear to refill slowly.
I refill when my guage shows 25 litres or 6.7 gall and stop at 40 litres
(10.8 gall) because my guage shows full at 40 litres. Do this twice in
flight. Return the valve to normal flight.
We measuresd the usable capacity as 18.7 for each wing tank.
I have never overfilled the belly tank. I think it would overflow out of the
overflow tube if the filler cap seal is good.
Note there is a recent Rotax mandatory about electric pumps and certain
serial numbers of Rotax mechanical pumps.
The tanks are expensive and a little fiddly to use but give the plane huge
range and a safety margin for a divert
Regards
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132620#132620
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks - Fill/Drain Procedure |
Hugh
Fuel does not flow into the carbs - the floats hold the needle valves closed.
I have not had any problems with the battery after using it for 30 mins
I enclose a photo of the plumbing in the pump area
Regards
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133014#133014
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict2961_163.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Center of Gravity Calculation (C.G.) |
Hugh
Thom Riddle has an Excel sheet for calculating the CG on the Allegro. You can download
it from my site. This only applies to his aircraft but gives a good approximation
for any Allegro UL.
http://www.aero-siam.com/page12.html
Thom is very helpful as you can see from his frequent posts and I am sure he can
answer questions you have.
On my Allegro 912S, the CG is near the forward limit. This increases the stall
speed slightly but makes the plane's handling safer than a rear CG.
Regards
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133021#133021
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks - Fill/Drain Procedure |
Paul: Thanks for the photo; it looks just like mine. I assume you also keep
the choke CLOSED during the pumping.
Hugh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Aero Siam
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:45 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: Re: Allegro 2000 Wing Tanks - Fill/Drain Procedure
Hugh
Fuel does not flow into the carbs - the floats hold the needle valves
closed.
I have not had any problems with the battery after using it for 30 mins
I enclose a photo of the plumbing in the pump area
Regards
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133014#133014
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict2961_163.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Realtime Spell Checker Added To Matronics Forums! |
Dear Listers,
Today 9/8/2007 I have added a new real-time spell checker function to all of the
BBS Forums at Matronics. When you reply or create a new message on the Forums,
you will notice that misspelled words will be high-lighted in yellow. If
you left-click on the word, you will be prompted with a drop-down list of suggested
spellings.
http://forums.matronics.com
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Matornics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TIM MOSES" <tcmoses(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Mount Alignment |
Has any one had a problem getting the engine mount level relative to the
leveled fuselage (per the assembly instructions)? I currently have
about 3.5 degrees of down thrust. If I shorten the upper mount
supports, I am bending the lower engine rubber mounts quite a bit.
Could the mount be bent from a hard landing? I did not build this plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Mount Alignment |
Tim: I built my Allegro 2000 new from a Q-B Kit so I cant help you on this
one. Maybe some other guys on the List can. Sorry!
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912 UL
N661WW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TIM MOSES
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: Engine Mount Alignment
Has any one had a problem getting the engine mount level relative to the
leveled fuselage (per the assembly instructions)? I currently have about
3.5 degrees of down thrust. If I shorten the upper mount supports, I am
bending the lower engine rubber mounts quite a bit. Could the mount be bent
from a hard landing? I did not build this plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TIM MOSES" <tcmoses(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Alignment |
Does any one have an electrical schmatic for the Allegro flap system?
My flaps will go down but will not go back up.
----- Original Message -----
From: TIM MOSES
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: Engine Mount Alignment
Has any one had a problem getting the engine mount level relative to
the leveled fuselage (per the assembly instructions)? I currently have
about 3.5 degrees of down thrust. If I shorten the upper mount
supports, I am bending the lower engine rubber mounts quite a bit.
Could the mount be bent from a hard landing? I did not build this
plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Threadcharmer(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS overheating issues |
Is anyone else out there flying an Allegro 2000 with a 100 hp Rotax 912ULS?
I'm interested in finding out about any overheating issues. I just completed
my kit on amphibious Shark Floats after 18 months and can't get around the
pattern more than twice before having to land with the temp creeping up close to
275F. I've added more intake area to the front of the cowling, including one
set of openings that allows fresh air to flow directly over the cylinders.
I've also added a 2" naca vent to the top of the cowling with a hose flowing
directly to the radiator. In my last attempt, I removed the spinner (I was using
a 10" UHS) and the temperature came down about 10 degrees.
Most of the Allegros I've heard of are using the 80hp Rotax, which in my
opinion, can get away with the smaller radiator they left us space for. Any
further thoughts on the subject?
Dale Hackworth
splashlanding(at)comcast.net
Allegro 2000
N306AD
Hobe Sound, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Mount Alignment |
Tim:
Yes, I have the schematic for the Allegro 2000 Flaps control connection. I
will be glad to fax it to you if you will send me your fax number. Did you
buy your Allegro as a used airplane? Do you have any assembly instructions?
If so you might want to talk with the previous owner about the Flaps.
I do know that the flap control rod (vertical rod just behind the pilot) has
too much play in it if you install it per the assembly instructions. The
upper connection of this rod to the torque tube lever has too much axial
rotation play due to the pivotal bearing used at that end. This allows the
lower end where the drive screw is located to rotate slightly every time the
flap motor is activated. It will rotate one way going up, and the other way
going down. This slight rotation causes the attached leaf spring limit
switch activator to rotate as well. If this rotation is enough it will
rotate the leaf actuator enough to actually miss the limit switch. I had
this problem. To solve it, I simply shimmed the upper connection with
washers to end up with a tight fit between the fork and the bearing (i.e.
I took out the play). That solved the problem. Sorry, I cant help you
with your engine mounting problem.
Email me your fax and Ill shoot the flap schematic to you.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TIM MOSES
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Engine Mount Alignment
Does any one have an electrical schmatic for the Allegro flap system? My
flaps will go down but will not go back up.
----- Original Message -----
From: TIM MOSES <mailto:tcmoses(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: Engine Mount Alignment
Has any one had a problem getting the engine mount level relative to the
leveled fuselage (per the assembly instructions)? I currently have about
3.5 degrees of down thrust. If I shorten the upper mount supports, I am
bending the lower engine rubber mounts quite a bit. Could the mount be bent
from a hard landing? I did not build this plane.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Allegro-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Allegro-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hugh McKay III" <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS overheating issues |
Dale:
I do not fly an Allegro 2000 with a Rotax 912ULS, but I do fly an Allegro
2000 with a Rotax 912UL in North Carolina. I can tell you this from
experience, you don't want to keep an Allegro 2000 with a 912UL running long
on the ground (especially on a hot day). If the plane is not flying and not
getting the ram air (80 to 100 mph air) forced in through the engine
compartment, the CHT will climb very quickly. Because the engine is fully
coweled in the Allegro, and has very little frontal opening for air to pass
over the engine (especially with a spinner and the large connection flange),
and the fact that the radiator location is just opposite of where it should
be (in my humble opinion), the engine can quickly overheat while on the
ground. In the air flying, everything is fine on my plane. No problems.
I can only imagine what you are dealing with having the same (small)
radiator with a 912ULS, and floats on top of every thing else. I don't
believe Fantasy Air has given very much thought to this problem, and I don't
expect you will get much help from the US Distributor. My suggestion is don'
t stay on the ground longer than necessary, leave the spinner off, get as
much air as possible in, around the engine, and through the radiator, and if
there is any way possible, put a larger radiator on the plane. Also, the
fact that you are in a hot humid climate (Florida) doesn't help things with
this small radiator.
Hugh McKay in North Carolina
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Threadcharmer(at)cs.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 2:48 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: Rotax 912ULS overheating issues
Is anyone else out there flying an Allegro 2000 with a 100 hp Rotax 912ULS?
I'm interested in finding out about any overheating issues. I just
completed my kit on amphibious Shark Floats after 18 months and can't get
around the pattern more than twice before having to land with the temp
creeping up close to 275F. I've added more intake area to the front of the
cowling, including one set of openings that allows fresh air to flow
directly over the cylinders. I've also added a 2" naca vent to the top of
the cowling with a hose flowing directly to the radiator. In my last
attempt, I removed the spinner (I was using a 10" UHS) and the temperature
came down about 10 degrees.
Most of the Allegros I've heard of are using the 80hp Rotax, which in my
opinion, can get away with the smaller radiator they left us space for. Any
further thoughts on the subject?
Dale Hackworth
splashlanding(at)comcast.net
Allegro 2000
N306AD
Hobe Sound, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TIM MOSES" <tcmoses(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Alignment |
Hugh,
Thanks for the tip on shimming the flap push rod end. That is what I
think caused my problem. It turns out that I had 2 broken limit switch
wires. I have the flap connection drawing and instructions. What I was
looking for was a real electrical schematic of the of the entire system,
but it looks like it is no longer needed. In regard to the engine
mounting problem...I ordered a new mount just to be sure.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh McKay III
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:18 PM
Subject: RE: Allegro-List: Engine Mount Alignment
Tim:
Yes, I have the schematic for the Allegro 2000 Flaps control
connection. I will be glad to fax it to you if you will send me your fax
number. Did you buy your Allegro as a used airplane? Do you have any
assembly instructions? If so you might want to talk with the previous
owner about the Flaps.
I do know that the flap control rod (vertical rod just behind the
pilot) has too much "play" in it if you install it per the assembly
instructions. The upper connection of this rod to the torque tube lever
has too much axial rotation "play" due to the pivotal bearing used at
that end. This allows the lower end where the drive screw is located to
rotate slightly every time the flap motor is activated. It will rotate
one way going up, and the other way going down. This slight rotation
causes the attached leaf spring limit switch activator to rotate as
well. If this rotation is enough it will rotate the leaf actuator enough
to actually miss the limit switch. I had this problem. To solve it, I
simply "shimmed" the upper connection with washers to end up with a
"tight " fit between the fork and the bearing (i.e. I took out the
"play"). That solved the problem. Sorry, I can't help you with your
engine mounting problem.
Email me your fax and I'll shoot the flap schematic to you.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
N661WW
hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-allegro-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TIM MOSES
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 4:22 PM
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Allegro-List: Engine Mount Alignment
Does any one have an electrical schmatic for the Allegro flap system?
My flaps will go down but will not go back up.
----- Original Message -----
From: TIM MOSES
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: Engine Mount Alignment
Has any one had a problem getting the engine mount level relative to
the leveled fuselage (per the assembly instructions)? I currently have
about 3.5 degrees of down thrust. If I shorten the upper mount
supports, I am bending the lower engine rubber mounts quite a bit.
Could the mount be bent from a hard landing? I did not build this
plane.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Allegro-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Allegro-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:
//forums.matronics.com - The Allegro-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Allegro-List - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TIM MOSES" <tcmoses(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Exhaust Pipe Orientation |
On page 89 of the assembly manual it shows the exhaust pipe on the LEFT
side of the nose strut coming down in front of the radiator.
But, on page 179 of the assembly manual it shows the exhaust pipe on the
RIGHT side of the nose strut coming down on the right side of the
radiator.
WHAT GIVES?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amy Hackworth" <splashlanding(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Pipe Orientation |
Believe me, Tim, if that's the worst discrepancy you can find in that
manual, you're definitely not looking hard enough! LOL... I could spend
hours correcting the manual. One of the main things that got us through
the building process was the fact we had an Allegro 2000 in Sebastian,
FL, which was about a 25-30 minute flight for us. We flew up there to
examine that plane and take photos approx. every two weeks until
Southeast Sport Aircraft sold the plane and decided not to be dealers
any longer. After that, we relied on Matt at B-Bar-D in North Carolina
to answer our questions. I must say, he was EXTREMELY helpful and we've
both learned quite a bit in the process.
In answer to your question, our exhaust pipe is on the left side (the
pilot's side) of the nose strut.
If you have any trouble deciphering some of those pages, feel free to
post an e-mail. We, and some of the others on this site, had to work
out quite a few things on our own, but would be glad to share our
findings in order to make things easier on you. Take my word for it,
there is no such thing as a silly question and asking may save you quite
a bit of time!!!
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress,
Dale Hackworth
splashlanding(at)comcast.net
Amphibious Allegro 2000
N306AD
Hobe Sound, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: TIM MOSES
To: allegro-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 6:03 PM
Subject: Allegro-List: Exhaust Pipe Orientation
On page 89 of the assembly manual it shows the exhaust pipe on the
LEFT side of the nose strut coming down in front of the radiator.
But, on page 179 of the assembly manual it shows the exhaust pipe on
the RIGHT side of the nose strut coming down on the right side of the
radiator.
WHAT GIVES?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Pipe Orientation |
The reason for that particular discrepancy is that the older Allegros,
including our SN#03-202, had a different exhaust system than the newer
ones. The old one is heavier, made of plain steel and painted instead
of stainless, has the exit pipe on the right side, and a much larger
heat muff for really good cabin heat. It also has a bad tendency for
the two rear cylinder exhaust pipes to crack. We repaired and finally
solved our cracking down pipe problem and still have it on our Allegro.
I appreciate the much better cabin heat in cold weather flying compared
to the new system.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Allegro key blanks |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Fellow Allegro operators:
A year or so ago, I asked B Bar D about getting some key blanks for the Allegro
door locks and master switch because we have a small group flying our Allegro.
I asked this because there are no blanks to be found anywhere around here per
all the locksmiths I visited. B Bar D does not stock any key blanks. I asked
Doug to contact Fantasy Air to get us some. Their response was they did not see
a need but if I insisted, they would sell me key blanks for $100 each! I passed
on that opportunity and we've been sharing keys ever since.
To make a short story long, one of my partners went to Europe several weeks ago
and while there found and bought some key blanks for the Allegro door and master
switch locks. We made all the copies of our that we anticipate needing and
have a few blanks left over.
I'm offering them on a first come first served basis for $10 each (expensive in
Euros with the US$ still tanking) to Allegro owners in USA including shipping.
I THINK we have five(5) of the door lock blanks and two(2) of the master switch
blanks.
Please let me know if you want a key blank for your Allegro, via direct to me email.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"If you live to be one hundred, you've got it made. Very few people die past
that age."
- George Burns
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142518#142518
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TIM MOSES" <tcmoses(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Allegro 80 HP Woodcomp Pitch setting |
What would be a good pitch setting for climb on an Allegro with the 80
HP Rotax and the Woodcomp prop? The previously reccomended pitch of
23.5 degrees at 7.875" from the tip seems like it is way too much.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro 80 HP Woodcomp Pitch setting |
Tim:
I agree, the 23.5 degrees is too much. I went through a series of emails on the
rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com back in October 2006 on this same subject. Go
to that forum and look at the archived emails on the subject. I finally settled
at 15 degrees which gave me 5100 rpm (static). If you ask Fantasy Air USA (Matt
Smith) he will tell you they set all their props at 14 degrees. You will
get various opinions on this subject, but 23.5 degres is certainly too much, and
I believe every one will agree on that. At least I hope so!!
Hugh McKay in NC
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912 UL
January 29, 2006 - October 31, 2007
Allegro-Archive.digest.vol-aa