Beech-Archive.digest.vol-ai
November 28, 2002 - April 29, 2004
An excellent channel of information. I have gained a
wealth of knowledge on both building and flying Kolb
aircraft.
Jim B
Enjoy the wealth of information that is shared.
Richard N
Fine service.
Beauford T
[The] List is the first stop of the day. Made lot of
friends from it.
Orie S
The information I gleaned off the List has always been
helpful.
Kenneth B
Over the 3+ years that I have been building, I check it
several times each day. I have learned a lot of very
useful tips that have helped me in my building.
Richard D
Not only is it worth a contribution for the info gleaned
from it but the personalities alone are pure entertainment!
Stephen F
This is great stuff!!! Entertaining, too!! Fast answers
from those who really know...
Bob R
I am building an RV-9A and have received help from
the lists and occasionally been able to give help to
others.
Alden Van W
This list has saved me countless hours of work and worry
already, and I'm only halfway there! Undoubtedly the most
important aid I have yet found in this sometimes
intimidating process of building an aircraft.
Paul H
I've been a member since '96 and have learned so much from
the vast knowledge of the listers.
Gary Z
Outstanding List, exceptionally maintained.
David S
Thanks for all the improvements you've made this year. The
Photoshare feature definitely proves "one picture is worth
a thousand words".
Richard H
I finished my RV6A this year. It is a much better airplane
because of the help I found on the RV and Aeroelectric
Lists.
Dale W
Can't imagine building without the list.
Larry H
The list continues to be a great resource of information
and advice.
Jeff O
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Gift Selection Added - List Fund Raiser! [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I've just added a great new last minute Gift Selection to this year's List
Fund Raiser line up! I have a very limited number of sets of a wonderful
collection of Aircraft Technical books by Jeppesen entitled "The A&P
Technical Series Book Set". This is a great opportunity to make a generous
Contribution to support the Lists and walk away with a great set of
reference manuals at the same time.
This set of books normally retails for over $117 PLUS shipping, but you can
pick up your set AND make this year's List Contribution for a cool C-note -
that's a $100, by the way! :-) I'm thinking "Great Christmas Gift"...
There's more information on the books and making your Contribution at the
List Contribution web site:
Email List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
We're coming close to the official end of this year's List Fund Raiser and
if you haven't yet made your Contribution, there's still time get your name
on that List of Contributors! The percentage of contributors is kind of
low this year but I'm hoping many of you are just holding out until the
last minute!
I want to thank each and everyone of you that has already made a donation
to support the continued operation and upgrade of these List Services. As
I've mentioned in the past, running these Lists is a labor of love for me
and the hours upon hours of code development, system maintenance, and
upgrades are MY Contribution to support this great resource for Builders
and Flyer's alike. Won't your take a minute and make YOUR Contribution today?
I want to thank you for your support both during the Fund Raiser but also
throughout the year in the form of kind words and moral support. A nice
comment from a List member about how much the lists have helped them is
always a sure way to brighten my day!
Thank you to all!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ!] "What is my Contribution used for?" |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What is my Contribution used for?", and this is a valid
question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support
enables. It provides for the expensive, business-class, high-speed
Internet connection used on the List, insuring maximum performance and
minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular
system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance
possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine and List
Browser. It pays for 14+ years worth of online archive data available for
instant random access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing,
developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List
Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and Photoshare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and
your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from
moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer
viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements
about these days? I will venture to say - next to none...
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable aspects
of this most valuable List service. Please support it today with your List
Contribution. Its the best investment you can make in your Sport - BAR NONE!
Email List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
This is the last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser. Based on previous
year's percentages of Lister's making a Contribution, this year we are
nearly 40% behind the normal... And I thought all those great gifts would
eke the percentage up past the average a little. Oh well. Maybe people
just don't really mind the flashing banner ads for Viagra, and popups for
X10 minicams...
There's still plenty of time to get your name of the List of
Contributors. I'll probably publish the LOC on Monday night after I
process the checks from the Post Office.
I do want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so
far this year. Your support is greatly appreciated and is what makes the
Lists possible.
How to support your Lists this month: http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List Digest Format!! |
Dear Listers,
I've just finished up some awesome code that will completely change your
thinking about how email Digests should work and look! Yeah, I'm kind of
proud of it, that is true... :-)
What you'll be getting in the new List Digest message is the
following: The main message will contain the new text-based index I
introduced a few weeks back. But here's where things get
different... Instead of simply including all of the day's posts in line
within the message, there will now be included two enclosures - one with a
HTML encoded version of the Digests, and another with the usual text-only
version of the Digests.
I think you're really going to like the new HTML enclosure of the
Digests. All of the Indexes at the top are now hyperlinked to the actual
posts and there are hyperlinks at the top of each post that will:
o Take you back to the Index
o Take you to the next post
o Take you to the previous post
o Allow you to respond to the LIST regarding the message
o Allow you to respond directly to the POSTER regarding the message
You'll have to check it out to appreciate the full goodness of the new
format! :-)
The text-only version is basically exactly the same data that has been
normally sent in line within the message.
You'll also note that the filenames of the enclosures are such that they
can be conveniently placed in a personal "archive" directory for future
reference.
Hope you enjoy the new Digest format!!!
Oh, and don't forget about the Fund Raiser! :-)
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New, NEW List Digest Format... |
Dear Listers,
Okay, so I woke up this morning to an email box full of hate-mail about the
new List Digest format. I thought it was cool, but I guess not... Still,
it seemed like too much code to just throw out, so I've modified things a
little and I'm hoping everyone will be happy with the new, NEW
arrangement. Here's how it works now:
o The HTML and TXT enclosures aren't sent in the Digest any longer.
o URL Links to the HTML and TEXT versions of the day's Digests
will be found at the top of the digest email.
o The new Digest Index will be found at the top of the digest email
following the URL Links.
o The full digest text will then be found in the email as before.
o All of the previous Digests will now be available on line. The
URL for the main digest page is:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
From here, you can drill into the specific List Digest of interest.
o Both the HTML and TXT versions of the Digests can be found here.
o The List Message Trailer will contain a Link directly to the given
o Right now there's only one Digest shown, but each day there will
be another. They will be sorted with the newest at the top.
Left-hand column is the HTML version, right-hand column the TXT
version.
A couple people also complained that some messages in the HTML version were
just one long line that went off to the right forever and they hated
that. Come to think of it, this is also an issue in the Search Engine,
List Browser, and Archive Browser. Some email programs don't included hard
Returns at regular intervals and that's what causes this. I wrote a
program tonight that will automatically chop these long lines into 78
characters or less and wrap the rest of the line. After tonight's Archive
transfer, all of the Searching and Browsing tools shouldn't have the
problem any longer either. Woo hoo!
So, back to the new Digest format. What people are going to see in the
new, NEW Digest is a bit of verbiage at the top of the email describing the
URL links to the HTML and TXT on-line versions, followed by the Links,
followed by the day's Index, followed by the day's messages just as
before. Lines longer than 78 characters will also be automatically wrapped
onto the next line.
Hopefully this will be a more pleasing arrangement for everyone. Sorry to
get everybody so stirred up over the format change!
The List of Contributors is coming out tomorrow night... Still time to
make that Contribution! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBINFLY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | re: questions on antennas |
I always have one com that is stronger than the other. While I have the
floor board removed (these are bottom mounted antennas), I decided to check
the contact between the antennas and the skin. I found the weak com's
antenna cable was shorted in the connector (so much for the $2K installation
labor for one GPS/Com w/ new antenna & calbe I paid 2 years ago). I did not
remove the antennas, but "ohm" the antenna connectors' shield (ground?) and
A/C skin and both read .2 ohm.
I also found that when I "ohm" the coax connectors on both antenna (not on
cable), the weak com antenna has no connection between the center and shield
(ground?) but the good com antenna reads .4 ohm between the center and
shield. Does it sound right? If the good com antenna and the A/C ground are
connected (w/ .4 ohm), how can it be the "good" com antenna?
Robin Hou
E35 Bo,
N7303B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics-List: re: questions on antennas |
this is a topic that could become a text book...
First, I suggest that you interchange the antennas to the radios... Move the
weak antenna/coax to the strong com, and the strong antenna/coax to the weak
com and see if anything changes...
Report back and we can discuss it..And yes, both antennas could be fine even
though one shows an open connection for DC and the other shows. 0.4 ohms due
to different internal construction...
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: <ROBINFLY(at)aol.com>
Subject: Avionics-List: re: questions on antennas
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: ROBINFLY(at)aol.com
>
> I always have one com that is stronger than the other. While I have the
> floor board removed (these are bottom mounted antennas), I decided to
check
> the contact between the antennas and the skin. I found the weak com's
> antenna cable was shorted in the connector (so much for the $2K
installation
> labor for one GPS/Com w/ new antenna & calbe I paid 2 years ago). I did
not
> remove the antennas, but "ohm" the antenna connectors' shield (ground?)
and
> A/C skin and both read .2 ohm.
>
> I also found that when I "ohm" the coax connectors on both antenna (not on
> cable), the weak com antenna has no connection between the center and
shield
> (ground?) but the good com antenna reads .4 ohm between the center and
> shield. Does it sound right? If the good com antenna and the A/C ground
are
> connected (w/ .4 ohm), how can it be the "good" com antenna?
>
> Robin Hou
> E35 Bo,
> N7303B
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cosman, John" <John.Cosman(at)METROKC.GOV> |
| Subject: | bladder support plate |
During a recent inspection of the auxiliary fuel tanks on my G35 Bonanza, we
discovered that the bladder support plate for the auxiliary fuel bladder in
the left wing is missing. Raytheon admits that there is such a part, but,
since it isn't listed in their database, they can't sell it to us. Does
anyone out there know where I can get one of these?
John Cosman
Oak Harbor, WA
bladder support plate
During a recent inspection of the auxiliary fuel tanks on my G35 Bonanza, we discovered
that the bladder support plate for the auxiliary fuel bladder in the
left wing is missing. Raytheon admits that there is such a part, but, since it
isn't listed in their database, they can't sell it to us. Does anyone out there
know where I can get one of these?
John Cosman
Oak Harbor, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David P. Walen Sr." <davewsr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bladder support plate |
TRy
Select Airparts 1800 318-0010
Preferred Airparts 1800 433-0814
OR Arrell Aircraft Sales 805 604 0439
----- Original Message -----
From: Cosman, John <John.Cosman(at)METROKC.GOV>
Subject: Beech-List: bladder support plate
>
> During a recent inspection of the auxiliary fuel tanks on my G35 Bonanza,
we
> discovered that the bladder support plate for the auxiliary fuel bladder
in
> the left wing is missing. Raytheon admits that there is such a part, but,
> since it isn't listed in their database, they can't sell it to us. Does
> anyone out there know where I can get one of these?
>
> John Cosman
> Oak Harbor, WA
>
>
>
>
>
> bladder support plate
>
>
> During a recent inspection of the auxiliary fuel tanks on my G35 Bonanza,
we discovered that the bladder support plate for the auxiliary fuel bladder
in the left wing is missing. Raytheon admits that there is such a part, but,
since it isn't listed in their database, they can't sell it to us. Does
anyone out there know where I can get one of these?
>
>
> John Cosman
>
> Oak Harbor, WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bladder support plate |
Ah, how typical.
Well, there are a couple of ways to attack this.
A) Try other beech parts supply sources. My favorite is:
Arrell Aircraft
701 Del Norte Blvd., Suite 220
Oxnard, CA 93030
805-604-0439
805-604-0429 (fax)
Rick Leatherwood
email:
http://www.arrellaircraft.com/
Rick either has it, can get it, or steer you to someone who does have it.
B) Try other fuel bladder sources. There are several:
A/C Team, Inc.
6075 E. Shelby Drive
Memphis, TN 38141
901-794-4488 or 800-743-0007
901-367-9348 or 800-743-0008 (fax)
email:
www.acfuelcells.com
AeroTech Services, Inc.
8354 Secura Way
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
562-696-1128
Dennis or Danielle
(2001.10.18: I have had nothing but good experiences with AeroTech
Services on fuel bladders. Their prices are consistently below others and
they manufacture a excellent product. I have used them for my Bonanza and
my friend's Duke. This is a family business and they support their product
and take care of their customers. Talk to Dennis -- he took over a couple
of years ago when his father died. -- beech-owners list)
(2002.08.19: Very nice people, had the tank in stock, price was $1224.00
including installation kit and a new roll of tape. beech-owners)
Aviation Fuel Cells International
5680 Shelby Dr.
Memphis, TN 38115
901-362-2355 or 800-238-3835
Patrick Manning
(1988.02.00: ABS Magazine)
Continental Fuel Cell Repair
North 2224 Locust #2
Spokane, WA 99206
509-927-7764 or 800-847-1870
Eagle Fuel Cells
853 Adams Rd.
Eagle River, WI 54521
715-479-6149 or 800-437-8732
715-479-6344 (fax)
www.eaglefuelcells.com
(2002.08.11: They are generally very reasonable and very prompt. There
are others out there cheaper, but I have not had good luck with their
repairs holding up. There are also a couple of shops out there that do very
high quality work, but whenever we check prices, they are usually much
higher than Eagle. beech-owners list)
Floats & Fuel Cells
4010 Pilot Dr., Suite # 3
Memphis, TN 38118
901-794-8431 or 800-647-6148
901-794-7845 (fax)
(1998.10.21: Bad Shop recommendation)
Hartwig Aircraft Fuel Cell Repair
26 South 4th Ave.
Hallock, MN 56728
204-668-3234 or 800-843-8033
204-339-3351 (fax)
email: <info@hartwig-fuelcell.com>
www.hartwig-fuelcell.com
Reliance Aeroproducts International, Inc.
Flying L Airpark (6TX7)
950 South 6th Ave.
Mansfield, TX 76063
817-453-8829 or 800-597-7535
(2002.02.14: The cell (p/n 35-380135-10) was in stock, shipped promptly,
and there were no installation problems. The 40 gallon baffled cell cost
$1470.00 including freight. beech-owners)
While these guys rebuild and sell the tanks, they also have installation
kits. Such a part may be considered part of that installation kit.
Best regards,
Ron Davis
Cosman, John wrote:
>
> During a recent inspection of the auxiliary fuel tanks on my G35 Bonanza, we
> discovered that the bladder support plate for the auxiliary fuel bladder in
> the left wing is missing. Raytheon admits that there is such a part, but,
> since it isn't listed in their database, they can't sell it to us. Does
> anyone out there know where I can get one of these?
>
> John Cosman
> Oak Harbor, WA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Crisp" <steve(at)theofficenet.com> |
John,
On the bladder support plate.
You might also try this link. They have a large stock of used parts
http://www.aerobuysell.com/Misc/misc.htm
Regards,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Scott <winginit(at)jps.net> |
Good Morning Guru's
Annual time coming up in March and I need to know what to do about the
skin thickness test; my last hurdle in removing the pesky speed
restriction on Victoria, my straight 35 mistress.
Pete Scott 4579V ss1221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank C Heinisch" <hlo(at)alltel.net> |
Pete
Been there, done that. Aluminum polished to a mirror finish, 1947 Victor
[N2795V, S/N 190] failed on 4 counts stations #2 at .0203; #5 @ .0245; #7 @
.0165; and #11 @ .0168.
There is hope. As to #2 the diagram has the arrow to the wrong panel, it
should point to the panel below the windows not the column between the
windows. As to #5 it is within tolerances. As to #7 and #11 the
specifications were not for S/Ns below 1575 and upon inquiry with Beech, the
.0160 is adequate.
I have not received the bill from Duncan Aviation in Lincoln Nebraska. Rick
Braun did the inspection. Doug Abbot of Abbot Aviation, York Ne, telephone
1 402 362 6554 made the arrangements for me at Duncan. Doug made contact
with Beech and the FAA and cleared up the problems. I have not yet received
the paper work but Doug is confident all is well. I have the highest regard
for Doug's work.
I know Duncan Aviation has inspected at least one other 35. He called me
and also had a problem with station #2 that was not properly identified.
Beech confirmed that the station #2 arrow was not pointing at the correct
panel.
Anyone have a suggestion on locating a left flap retraction cable.
I am shopping for a major on the E-185-8. The bids are a whopping $21,000.
Any ideas.
Frank C. Heinisch
Geneva Nebraska
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Scott" <winginit(at)jps.net>
Subject: Beech-List: skin test
>
> Good Morning Guru's
>
> Annual time coming up in March and I need to know what to do about the
> skin thickness test; my last hurdle in removing the pesky speed
> restriction on Victoria, my straight 35 mistress.
>
> Pete Scott 4579V ss1221
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Pete,
I'm fairly new to this email list. What part of the country are
you in? I have all the equipment to do the skin thickness mearsurements. I
believe you need a bulkhead thickness measured as well.
Just to give you a brief history. I am an NDT Inspector for a major
airline. NDT meaning Nondestructive Testing. We inspect using X-ray, Isotope,
eddy current, magnetic particle, Flourescent Penetrant, Thermography, and
Ultrasound. I also work on small aircraft as a side job to pay for my
Bonanza. I enjoy doing owner assisted annuals and other things. I've been in
the light aircraft world for the early part of my career and kept my I.A.
current for over 20 years.
I spoke with my boss and he gave me the green light to use any
equipment I wanted to perform the inspections needed on the weekend.
I am located in the DFW area and can do your ultrasonic skin thickness
measuring for $75. That offer stands for anyone else needing it done as well.
It shouldn't take very long to do. I am currently having a standard made so
that I can check for internal corrosion in ruddervators.
Hope this helps for anyone wanting to lift their speed restriction.
Jonathan
av8trqa(at)aol.com
N3095C
1959 K 35
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Scott <winginit(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Skin thickness test |
Hello Jonathan,
I assume that DFW means Dallas/Ft. Worth. I rarely get that far east.
I am based in Northern California (AUN) Auburn.
Maybe I'll try to justify a trip your way to get things tested.
Victoria has been painted, as far as I know, for many years, if that has
any bearing on her skin's thickness.
Newly skinned ruddervators were installed last year, prop balanced and
all the rigging checked so I think that the skin test is about all she
needs to become a whole person.
Let me know your thoughts on the feasibility of coming back.
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skin thickness test |
What Airport in the DFW area do you do this inspection?
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
A35 N723B
-- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Scott" <winginit(at)jps.net>
Subject: Beech-List: Skin thickness test
>
> Hello Jonathan,
>
> I assume that DFW means Dallas/Ft. Worth. I rarely get that far east.
> I am based in Northern California (AUN) Auburn.
>
> Maybe I'll try to justify a trip your way to get things tested.
> Victoria has been painted, as far as I know, for many years, if that has
> any bearing on her skin's thickness.
>
> Newly skinned ruddervators were installed last year, prop balanced and
> all the rigging checked so I think that the skin test is about all she
> needs to become a whole person.
>
> Let me know your thoughts on the feasibility of coming back.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Skin thickness test |
In a message dated 1/8/03 11:30:13 PM Central Standard Time, winginit(at)jps.net
writes:
> Hello Jonathan,
>
> I assume that DFW means Dallas/Ft. Worth. I rarely get that far east.
> I am based in Northern California (AUN) Auburn.
>
> Maybe I'll try to justify a trip your way to get things tested.
> Victoria has been painted, as far as I know, for many years, if that has
> any bearing on her skin's thickness.
>
> Newly skinned ruddervators were installed last year, prop balanced and
> all the rigging checked so I think that the skin test is about all she
> needs to become a whole person.
>
> Let me know your thoughts on the feasibility of coming back.
>
> Pete
>
>
Hi Pete,
Actually, after posting that I could do the inspection, I
found out that some other people were having trouble with the drawings being
wrong. I am going to do my friends 47 Bonanza this weekend. If all goes well,
then I can do everyone else's. I wish I had known about the troubles that
other stations were having before I posted my ability to do the testing. I
can keep you posted if you are interested. Sorry for the inconvienance!
Jonathan
av8trqa(at)aol.com
N3095C K35
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skin thickness test |
I believe the new "revised" AD no longer requires the "ultrasonic" skin
test. The test can supposed be done with mechanical tools, i.e.
micrometers, etc. We have three ships to do here at VGT. One of the
owners called Raytheon at length and determined the test could be done with
a depth micrometer at the point of skin overlap. I'm still thinking about
this method as it doesn't tell you much about thickness out in the "field"
of the skin, just the edge.
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, Straight 35
Subject: Beech-List: Skin thickness test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Scott <winginit(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure question |
Hello Experts.
I recently noticed abnormally high fuel pressure on a 30 minute flight
over the Sierras and am puzzled. Fuel pressure on climb from 1500 ft
msl to 10,500 and down to 4,500 was about at the redline. Took off with
full tanks so this flight was on the left tank. Two days later came
back the same route on the right tank and fuel pressure was normal, 14.5
psi. This is an early Bonanza with a pressure carb. Blew back on the
left tank overflow/vent line upon arrival home and found no
restriction. ???
Pete Scott 4579V ss 1221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Crisp" <steve(at)theofficenet.com> |
Peter,
Don't suppose you have a fuel boost pump switch that may have been left on the
first leg. I catch myself on that occasionally.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure question |
| From: | Stuart J Brown <stu_brown(at)juno.com> |
Pete,
That is why there is a green arc on any gauge. If your pressures are
within the green, I would not worry about it. My Bonanza fuel pressure
changes with altitude and temperature. Not by much but it does vary. Are
you still using the factory gauge? Mine went west a few years ago.
Replaced it with a combination manifold pressure, fuel pressure gauge.
Small changes show up as big needle displacements.
Stu Brown 4490D (G-35)
>
> Hello Experts.
>
> I recently noticed abnormally high fuel pressure on a 30 minute
> flight
> over the Sierras and am puzzled. Fuel pressure on climb from 1500
> ft
> msl to 10,500 and down to 4,500 was about at the redline. Took off
> with
> full tanks so this flight was on the left tank. Two days later came
> back the same route on the right tank and fuel pressure was normal,
> 14.5
> psi. This is an early Bonanza with a pressure carb. Blew back on
> the
> left tank overflow/vent line upon arrival home and found no
> restriction. ???
> Pete Scott 4579V ss 1221
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHebestrei(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure question |
Arent u supposed to run a minimum 1 hour on the left tank, this may explain
the blow-by. My fuel pressure remains steady within a pound, newer guage!.
Kevin N4234B 55F-35
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Dortch" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
We are looking for the Cowling emblems that have a V with 225 in the V. Does anyone
have any?
What did the Straight 35 have on its cowling?
Thanks Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling emblem |
Steve,
Usually, the straight 35 didn't have any emblem at all.
Many of them did, however, have
B E E C H C R A F T
painted in black in between the red nose and the red stripe that runs to the
tail.
There should be other straight 35 experts here that can tell us more.
Ron
Steven Dortch wrote:
>
> We are looking for the Cowling emblems that have a V with 225 in the V. Does
anyone have any?
>
> What did the Straight 35 have on its cowling?
>
> Thanks Steve D
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRSProAds(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling emblem |
I've seen the V225 emblem on some later B or C models. Not sure if it was
original equipment though.
I had an F35 that had no emblem at all on the cowling.
My two cents.
J. Smith
Phoenix, AZ
ProAds, Inc.
Advertising Solutions
(623) 594-0725
(623) 594-0728 Fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling emblem |
In a message dated 1/22/03 10:58:08 PM Central Standard Time,
JRSProAds(at)aol.com writes:
> I've seen the V225 emblem on some later B or C models. Not sure if it was
> original equipment though.
>
>
Good Evening J. Smith,
The E-225 was not offered on the B or C models. It was first offered as an
option on the E35.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowling emblem |
| From: | stu_brown(at)juno.com |
Steve,
Larry Ball wrote a book on Bonanzas, there is a photo of each model in the book.
I am not aware of any cowling emblem on straight 35's. My G-35 has an embelem
with 225 hp and the model #. The E-225 engine was first offered in either the
E or F along with the E-185. I thing this is how Beech indicated the horse power
difference. I'm not sure when they started with emblems.
Stu Brown N4490D (G-35)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "carmine pecoraro" <aeroauto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling emblem |
I have a pair of G 225 cowling emblems.
cheers carmine pecoraro
>From: JRSProAds(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Beech-List: Cowling emblem
>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:56:17 EST
>
>
>I've seen the V225 emblem on some later B or C models. Not sure if it was
>original equipment though.
>
>I had an F35 that had no emblem at all on the cowling.
>
>My two cents.
>
>J. Smith
>Phoenix, AZ
>
>ProAds, Inc.
>Advertising Solutions
>(623) 594-0725
>(623) 594-0728 Fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Dortch" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
Thanks for all the feedback on the emblems. The cowling on my 48 straight 35 has
a patch on each side where someone repaired it as though it had dissimilar metal
corrosion. Like from an emblem. Since the straight 35 had no emblem and
mine has the E185-11, I will not put one on.
However the request is for my friends C Model. It does have a 225 in it and he
has repaired the cowling where his had dissimilar metal corrosion. It is obvious
that his had a V emblem with the 225 logo. He would like to replace it and
we will contact those who have offered emblems. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Weber, Barry [LFS]" <BWEBER1(at)lfsus.jnj.com> |
Most of the pictures of the straight 35 are of prototypes or early
production airplanes. These photos do not show any emblem on the cowl.
However I have serial Numbers D-18 and D-127 which both have the exact same
emblems placed precisely in the same location, both sides of the cowl, both
airplanes. The installation looks factory. From this I would conclude that
at some point in time Beechcraft put emblems on the straight 35 cowl. The
parts book calls out Emblem part # 35-000025 applicable to serial numbers
D-1 to D-2680. I will look more closely at my collection of early literature
for a picture of an airplane with this emblem in place.
Regards,
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Dortch [mailto:smallfish(at)enid.com]
Subject: Beech-List: Emblems
Thanks for all the feedback on the emblems. The cowling on my 48 straight 35
has a patch on each side where someone repaired it as though it had
dissimilar metal corrosion. Like from an emblem. Since the straight 35 had
no emblem and mine has the E185-11, I will not put one on.
However the request is for my friends C Model. It does have a 225 in it and
he has repaired the cowling where his had dissimilar metal corrosion. It is
obvious that his had a V emblem with the 225 logo. He would like to replace
it and we will contact those who have offered emblems. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gstrong(at)att.net> |
Ebay has a G35 235 emblem for sale with a starting bid of $93.
Gary S.
1979 V35B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Beech-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 01/23/03 |
In a message dated 1/24/03 1:55:47 AM Central Standard Time,
beech-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> However the request is for my friends C Model. It does have a 225 in it and
> he has repaired the cowling where his had dissimilar metal corrosion. It is
> obvious that his had a V emblem with the 225 logo. He would like to replace
> it and we will contact those who have offered emblems. Thanks.
>
Good Morning Steven,
It is possible that it could have had one of those generic Beechcraft plates
that were about ten inches long and an inch high. I doubt it, but it is
possible.
There may well have been something such as a 225 emblem installed in the many
years since that airplane was built, but it definitely DID NOT have a 225
emblem installed at the factory.
If he is trying to bring that aircraft's appearance back to the original,
leave the emblems off.
Incidentally, when the factory did start to apply vanity plates on the side
of the cowling, there were many complaints from customers and they were
occasionally left off at customer request.
On top of that, all of the speed mod folks removed them as part of the
general clean up of the airplane.
If your friend wants to advertise on the side of his airplane, why doesn't he
get an artistic sign painter to apply some appropriate art indication. Beech
did variances on that theme several times over the years. Many of those look
quite nice.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
> However the request is for my friends C Model. It does have a 225 in it and
> he has repaired the cowling where his had dissimilar metal corrosion. It is
> obvious that his had a V emblem with the 225 logo. He would like to replace
> it and we will contact those who have offered emblems. Thanks.
>
Good Morning Steven,
It is possible that it could have had one of those generic Beechcraft plates
that were about ten inches long and an inch high. I doubt it, but it is
possible.
There may well have been something such as a 225 emblem installed in the many
years since that airplane was built, but it definitely DID NOT have a 225
emblem installed at the factory.
If he is trying to bring that aircraft's appearance back to the original,
leave the emblems off.
Incidentally, when the factory did start to apply vanity plates on the side
of the cowling, there were many complaints from customers and they were
occasionally left off at customer request.
On top of that, all of the speed mod folks removed them as part of the
general clean up of the airplane.
If your friend wants to advertise on the side of his airplane, why doesn't he
get an artistic sign painter to apply some appropriate art indication.
Beech
did variances on that theme several times over the years. Many of those
look
quite nice.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Dortch" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Beech-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 01/23/03 |
Thanks for the info, my friend knows that the C model did not have the 225
or the emblem. There is an outline of the logo that was in place with the
larege V in the middle. However, he likes the logo and wants to put it on
his bird. Since he has mechaniced on planes for about 50 years and this is
the third Vtail he personally has restored from ground up (not including
working on many Beechcraft for others.) and he is helping me with mine, I am
going to help him get an emblem. He knows the pluses and minuses and simply
wants to build himself a nice plane, the way he wants it. He is not going
for original at all so it is not a restoration but rather a rebuild.
The C model that he is currently rebuilding was very damaged in a gear up
landing and taken apart for storage 25+ years ago. He rescued it from being
sent to a salvage yard a couple of years ago. He currently has it all
stripped and is doing a rebuild from ground up. He will paint the plane
while disassembled. He has added a 3rd window, long, and a speed slope
windshield (since he had one) and has rebuilt an instrument panel out of a
wrecked 1999 A36. He is doing many upgrades from later models. It will be a
really nice bird when he is done but far from original.
Thanks for the feedback. I don't plan on putting the logo on my plane.
Everything that can be done to get extra speed is for the good and I kind of
like slowly going back to original, though my 48 model has a speed slope
winshield, and small 3rd window.). In fact, I will be replacing a HUGE
"Ram's Horn" antenna with a smaller set of antennas when I get around to it.
I am interested in looking somewhat original but I don't want to step
backward in performance. Besides It is all I can do to try to get my bird
back in the air.
Blue Skies
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B(at)aol.com>
Subject: Beech-List: Re: Beech-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 01/23/03
>
> In a message dated 1/24/03 1:55:47 AM Central Standard Time,
> beech-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> > However the request is for my friends C Model. It does have a 225 in it
and
> > he has repaired the cowling where his had dissimilar metal corrosion. It
is
> > obvious that his had a V emblem with the 225 logo. He would like to
replace
> > it and we will contact those who have offered emblems. Thanks.
> >
>
> Good Morning Steven,
>
> It is possible that it could have had one of those generic Beechcraft
plates
> that were about ten inches long and an inch high. I doubt it, but it is
> possible.
>
> There may well have been something such as a 225 emblem installed in the
many
> years since that airplane was built, but it definitely DID NOT have a 225
> emblem installed at the factory.
>
> If he is trying to bring that aircraft's appearance back to the original,
> leave the emblems off.
>
> Incidentally, when the factory did start to apply vanity plates on the
side
> of the cowling, there were many complaints from customers and they were
> occasionally left off at customer request.
>
> On top of that, all of the speed mod folks removed them as part of the
> general clean up of the airplane.
>
> If your friend wants to advertise on the side of his airplane, why doesn't
he
> get an artistic sign painter to apply some appropriate art indication.
Beech
> did variances on that theme several times over the years. Many of those
look
> quite nice.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Dortch" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling emblem |
How much do you want?
----- Original Message -----
From: "carmine pecoraro" <aeroauto(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Beech-List: Cowling emblem
>
> I have a pair of G 225 cowling emblems.
>
>
> cheers carmine pecoraro
>
>
> >From: JRSProAds(at)aol.com
> >Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Beech-List: Cowling emblem
> >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:56:17 EST
> >
> >
> >I've seen the V225 emblem on some later B or C models. Not sure if it
was
> >original equipment though.
> >
> >I had an F35 that had no emblem at all on the cowling.
> >
> >My two cents.
> >
> >J. Smith
> >Phoenix, AZ
> >
> >ProAds, Inc.
> >Advertising Solutions
> >(623) 594-0725
> >(623) 594-0728 Fax
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Beech-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 01/23/03 |
In a message dated 1/24/03 2:17:02 PM Central Standard Time,
smallfish(at)enid.com writes:
> I kind of
> like slowly going back to original, though my 48 model has a speed slope
> winshield, and small 3rd window.). In fact, I will be replacing a HUGE
> "Ram's Horn" antenna with a smaller set of antennas when I get around to
> it.
> I am interested in looking somewhat original but I don't want to step
> backward in performance.
Good Afternoon Steven,
Sounds good to me!
May I make a couple of suggestions?
I would try not to put any bigger third window in than that which you have.
The small third window gives about eighty percent as much visibility as does
the big one. The big one requires structural changes to the fuselage which
does change the stress distribution on the structure. I think it is
inadvisable to mess with that tail assembly any more than is absolutely
necessary. Not only that, the big window weighs more than the one you have.
Why give up payload for no good reason?
You mention your desire to get rid of the large Rams Head antenna. You also
stated you are working slowly toward a more original look.
Consider that there was no VOR available when your airplane was built. A VHF
navigational antenna was NOT a standard piece of equipment. There were a few
that came from the factory with VAR and ILS receivers. That did require a V
style antenna at that time and many Bonanzas did sport some of the big WWII
rams horn type antennas. Your's may have been one of those.
Nevertheless, I would recommend that you go to the 'clean top' look. All of
the speed gurus tell us that the top of the airplane is the place you can
pick up the most speed. The cleaner, the better!
I like the blades on the tail beneath the tail surfaces. They are
unobtrusive and lower drag than any of the V antennas.
If you care to see a set installed, take a look at the following website.
http://www.beechcraft.org/vtail/BOBSANTENNA/
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "carmine pecoraro" <aeroauto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling emblem |
I hadn't thought about selling them. What are they worth?
cheers carmine pecoraro
>From: "Steven Dortch" <smallfish(at)enid.com>
>Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Beech-List: Cowling emblem
>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 01:03:23 -0600
>
>
>How much do you want?
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "carmine pecoraro" <aeroauto(at)hotmail.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Beech-List: Cowling emblem
>
>
>
> >
> > I have a pair of G 225 cowling emblems.
> >
> >
> > cheers carmine pecoraro
> >
> >
> > >From: JRSProAds(at)aol.com
> > >Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Beech-List: Cowling emblem
> > >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:56:17 EST
> > >
> > >
> > >I've seen the V225 emblem on some later B or C models. Not sure if it
>was
> > >original equipment though.
> > >
> > >I had an F35 that had no emblem at all on the cowling.
> > >
> > >My two cents.
> > >
> > >J. Smith
> > >Phoenix, AZ
> > >
> > >ProAds, Inc.
> > >Advertising Solutions
> > >(623) 594-0725
> > >(623) 594-0728 Fax
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart J Brown <stu_brown(at)juno.com> |
I went to my parts book for a listing of cowl emblems.There is no listing
for the straight 35. A&B models share the same number, C,D&E share the
same number. The E also has an engine horse power emblem, According to my
Bonanza book, By Larry Ball, this was the first model to offer the
optional E-225 engine. The F&G each have their own numbers. The F also
has a listing for an "Insignia", this may also be for horsepower. The F
could also be purchased with a185 or 225 engine.
Stu Brown 4490D (G-35)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Weber, Barry [LFS]" <BWEBER1(at)lfsus.jnj.com> |
The emblem is in the parts book and it is important to look at the "Usable
On Code" and reference it's application chart
Page 2-250, Figure 136 Exterior Marking, Item 1. Emblem.
The "Usable On" Code is AB, Note that a code of "A" applies to model 35 and
A-35
The code to apply to an A-35 model only is A2 (D1501 to D2200) and straight
35 only is A1 (D1 to D1500)
Code A=D1 to D2200 (all straight 35 and A-35)
Code B=D2201 to D2680 (all B models)
See page 1-5 for this "usable on code" information.
"Usable on" does not necessarily mean this emblem was installed on a new
airplane but it might have been a popular thing to add at the dealership or
by a subsequent owner.
This emblem measures about 2" X 12" and says "BEECHCRAFT Bonanza"
-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart J Brown [mailto:stu_brown(at)juno.com]
Subject: Beech-List: Emblems
I went to my parts book for a listing of cowl emblems.There is no listing
for the straight 35. A&B models share the same number, C,D&E share the
same number. The E also has an engine horse power emblem, According to my
Bonanza book, By Larry Ball, this was the first model to offer the
optional E-225 engine. The F&G each have their own numbers. The F also
has a listing for an "Insignia", this may also be for horsepower. The F
could also be purchased with a185 or 225 engine.
Stu Brown 4490D (G-35)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | stu_brown(at)juno.com |
E-BAY has a PLEXIGLAS panel cover for a C Bonanza. It's listed as new. The photo
appears to support the claim. This is a great find for anyone restoring a C.
Anyone know where I can find a serviceable instrument cover for a G model?
Stu (G-35)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Cook <adtouch(at)bellsouth.net> |
During a engine re-assembly and install back into the plane my mechanic
has found cracks on the top of the case on the two holes where the hoist
attachment is and I am wondering if the case can be repaired (welded or
etc.) or am I out of luck and have to get a new or rebuilt case or what??
Thom Cook
N59TC
C-35 (D2736)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
Hi All,
Someone on the Beech list said that Beech had a kit to install on the top
half of the nose bowl that would let you lift the engine straight up when
removing the engine. Anyone with more information on that mod or kit?
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
1949 A35 N723B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 2/5/03 2:44:52 PM Central Standard Time, rv4bell(at)door.net
writes:
> Hi All,
> Someone on the Beech list said that Beech had a kit to install on the top
> half of the nose bowl that would let you lift the engine straight up when
> removing the engine. Anyone with more information on that mod or kit?
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> 1949 A35 N723B
>
Good Afternoon Bruce,
I don't believe that was ever offered as a kit, but it is the way the factory
turbocharged airplanes were built.
In addition, if you will look at the S35s and early V35s, you may notice that
there is a section of the top of the nose bowl that has been riveted in
place. I have heard rumor that some folks have taken out the rivets and
replaced them with nut plates and screws.
(For what it is worth, those were old style nose bowls for the non-canted
engine. When they decided to mount the IO-520 crooked, they modified the
nose bowls they had in stock and didn't build a new one until all of the old
ones were used up.)
I suppose that could be done via a local approval if you had some
substantiating data, but I have never seen an installation where that was
done.
Tipping the engine isn't all that bad. The big advantage to having a
removable section is the ability to lift the engine without having to remove
the propellor.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi everybody
I'm new to this list.
Has anybody heard of a V35A that was armed with twin Browning machine guns that
was used in the Rhodesian Bush War?
Regards,
Andrew.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gstrong(at)att.net> |
Not heard of this, but anything's possible. Is this your bird?
Gary S.
V35B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 2/15/03 9:49:41 AM Central Standard Time, gstrong(at)att.net
writes:
>
> Not heard of this, but anything's possible. Is this your bird?
>
> Gary S.
> V35B
>
Good Morning Gary S.,
I have to admit that you have piqued my curiosity.
Could you let the rest of us know what you are referring to?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget(at)shaw.ca> |
No, it was my Dad's.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Strong" <gstrong(at)att.net>
Subject: RE: Beech-List: V35A
>
> Not heard of this, but anything's possible. Is this your bird?
>
> Gary S.
> V35B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Beech Staggerwing ZS-PWD |
Hi
Are there any Staggerwing enthusiasts out there? I'm trying to find out what happened
to a Staggerwing that was restored by Peter Dahl in South Africa - it was
sold to somebody in the US in the mid 1980's. The Staggerwing used to be ZS-PWD
and apparently was owned at some stage by Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands.
Anybody know anything about this old lady?
Regards
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Beech Staggerwing ZS-PWD |
In a message dated 2/15/03 3:27:43 PM Central Standard Time,
andrew.bridget(at)shaw.ca writes:
> Anybody know anything about this old lady?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew
>
Good Afternoon Andrew,
I am not familiar with that particular airplane, but the Staggerwing Museum
in Tullahoma, Tennessee, has a very good list of almost all of the currently
flying, stored and many of the destroyed airplanes.
May I suggest that you contact them at: http://www.staggerwing.com/
If you are ever able to stop by the Museum, I am sure you will find it well
worth the trip.
They hold a large flyin and convention every year in October. Check it out
on their website.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gstrong(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | V35A w/ machine guns mounted |
Bob,
I was referring to the note posted by another person looking for info on
a V35A w/ machine guns mounted in the wings. He replied that it was his
father's aircraft.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Stutzman <stutzman(at)stutzman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: V35A w/ machine guns mounted |
On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Gary Strong wrote:
>
> I was referring to the note posted by another person looking for info on
> a V35A w/ machine guns mounted in the wings. He replied that it was his
> father's aircraft.
There is a note in Larry Ball's "Incomparable Bonanzas" about a model D33
which was modified S35. It had a straight tail, hardpoints and other
changes. The Air Force was evaluating it as a light strike aircraft.
"Air Force pilots flew this Bonanza with 250-pound napalm bombs, 2.75-inch
folding find unguided rockets, 7.62 mm six-barrel machine guns, bomblet
dispensers, 272-pound general purpose bombs and other ordnance." The
picture show a plane with a tail number of N5847K. One of the N number
databases I checked has no such listing.
This was in '65. No mention what ever happend to the plane.
There also was a model PD249 which was supposed to be a improved version
of the D33. And then there was also the various "Pave Eagle" planes, but
thats getting pretty distant to what would normally be considered a
Bonanza.
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: V35A w/ machine guns mounted |
I have a photo of it - is there a website where it can be posted?
Regards,
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Stutzman" <stutzman(at)stutzman.com>
Subject: Re: Beech-List: V35A w/ machine guns mounted
>
> On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Gary Strong wrote:
>
> >
> > I was referring to the note posted by another person looking for info on
> > a V35A w/ machine guns mounted in the wings. He replied that it was his
> > father's aircraft.
>
> There is a note in Larry Ball's "Incomparable Bonanzas" about a model D33
> which was modified S35. It had a straight tail, hardpoints and other
> changes. The Air Force was evaluating it as a light strike aircraft.
> "Air Force pilots flew this Bonanza with 250-pound napalm bombs, 2.75-inch
> folding find unguided rockets, 7.62 mm six-barrel machine guns, bomblet
> dispensers, 272-pound general purpose bombs and other ordnance." The
> picture show a plane with a tail number of N5847K. One of the N number
> databases I checked has no such listing.
>
> This was in '65. No mention what ever happend to the plane.
>
> There also was a model PD249 which was supposed to be a improved version
> of the D33. And then there was also the various "Pave Eagle" planes, but
> thats getting pretty distant to what would normally be considered a
> Bonanza.
>
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
> Hood River, OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
Check bottom of page for Photo Share
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Dortch" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
A couple of years ago I stumbled across a reference to a Bonanza being used
by the Israeli Air Force early on. If my memory serves me right, it was
brought to Israel from South Africa and they fired a machine gun from the
cargo door. But this is just my memory of something stumbled across. I don't
remember any other references to military use. I would be interested in any
info anyone finds. Thanks. Steve D.
Straight 35
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Beech-List: V35A
>
> Hi everybody
>
> I'm new to this list.
>
> Has anybody heard of a V35A that was armed with twin Browning machine guns
that was used in the Rhodesian Bush War?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Andrew Watson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Andrew Watson
Subject: Beech V35A with twin Browning Machine Guns
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/andrew.bridget@shaw.ca.02.22.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 7-Day Matronics List Browse Enhancement... |
Dear Listers,
Neil Hulin of the Zenith-List at Matronics wrote to me suggesting I add a
"total of available messages" column to the 7-Day List Browse Main page,
and it seemed like a great idea! I've made the modifications and I think
many will find it extremely helpful as well. Have a look at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin...
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics ISP Upgrade TODAY... |
Dear Listers,
The time has finally arrived for the Internet Service Provider (ISP)
upgrade! You'll recall that I was looking into upgrading the existing SDSL
connection from 768k to 1.1M. As it turned out, the copper line wouldn't
support any speeds greater than the current 768k. In light of that news, I
just bit-the-bullet and ordered a full, commercial-grade T1
connection. The T1 connection will provide a full-duplex, high priority,
1.5Mb Internet connection which should be a substantial performance
enhancement for all of the List services!
Pacbell delivered the T1 Loop last week and it tested out fine. This past
weekend I pulled the tail circuit from the demark to the office. This
afternoon, Tuesday 4/1/03, the ISP is suppose come and install the new
router and bring up routing on a test subnet. Assuming that everything
checks out okay with the T1, new router, and routing, I will have them
swing the main Matronics subnet off the SDSL and onto the T1. In theory,
the swing could be nearly transparent to users, but that's usually not the
case... ;-)
Please expect a bit of instability in connectivity this afternoon as we
work though the transition issues. I will post a follow up message when
everything is up and running on the new T1 line.
Finally, please know that it is solely your Contributions that make these
kinds of List upgrades happen! There is no advertising budget (aka,
flashing banner ads and annoying pop up browser windows) to pay these
bills; operational support is solely from List members like you during the
yearly List Fund Raiser. If you would like to make your Contribution to
support the Lists and upgrades like this T1 connectivity enhancement,
please see the List Contribution Web Site where you can make your
Contribution with a Credit Card, PayPal, or Personal Check. You can even
get a free List Archive CDROM with a qualifying List Contribution! The URL
is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thanks again to EVERYONE that made a generous Contribution last year and
enabled this awesome upgrade to T1 service!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics ISP Upgrade COMPLETED! |
Dear Listers,
I just wanted to send out a quick note to let everyone know that the 1.5Mb
T1 connection upgrade went smoothly today. They brought up the new line
and router yesterday on a test subnet and today the ISP switched over
connectivity about 12 noon with little to no incident. I just finished
some performance testing, and it appears that actual throughput and
interactive response is noticeably improved as advertised!
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Yesterday according to the Chicago Tribune they "freed" the Meigs 16
airplanes trapped by the idiot. Only 15 left as one person could not wait
for the release. Said that the City of Chicago would pay for motel rooms but
I wonder if they really will?
The big irony was that they had to sign a hold harmless waiver because they
had to take off from the 3010 taxi way. Just some more nose-rubbing in the
dirt by Dopey Daley. FAA only approve a departure and would have probably
cited them if they had to make an emergency landing back on the taxiway even
though it would be much safer for all concerned than using Lake Shore Drive.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shelby Smith <rvaitor(at)comcast.net> |
I really wonder at this point if there is anything that can be done.
Certainly, Daley won't spend the money to fix what he tore up,
Our Musketeer group just went up there because many of us had never been. I
guess we are lucky now.
--
Shelby Smith
Ride with me into Meigs Field Chicago
Click Here - http://tinyurl.com/8pgm
68 B-23 N4004T serial #1110 located @
The EAA Complex / Smyrna TN
> From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 11:24:22 -0600
> To: @matronics.com;>
> Subject: Beech-List: Meigs Field
>
>
> Yesterday according to the Chicago Tribune they "freed" the Meigs 16
> airplanes trapped by the idiot. Only 15 left as one person could not wait
> for the release. Said that the City of Chicago would pay for motel rooms but
> I wonder if they really will?
>
> The big irony was that they had to sign a hold harmless waiver because they
> had to take off from the 3010 taxi way. Just some more nose-rubbing in the
> dirt by Dopey Daley. FAA only approve a departure and would have probably
> cited them if they had to make an emergency landing back on the taxiway even
> though it would be much safer for all concerned than using Lake Shore Drive.
>
> Cy Galley
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Fw: Luscombe: Fw: [texas-flyers] Online Meigs petition |
Might try this if you have time. - Cy Galley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Katie Jarrett" <Katie(at)ARKAero.com>
Subject: Luscombe: Fw: [texas-flyers] Online Meigs petition
> This can use everyone's help
>
>
> http://www.petitiononline.com/meigs/
>
>
> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/0yWplB/TM
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> texas-flyers-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Subscription; www.luscombe.org/directory.html
>
> ==
================================================================
>
> Or send an email to: luscombe-unsubscribe(at)topica.com
>
> ==
================================================================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Nice looking dual yoke on ebay |
Item number 2410964210
Located in aviation parts.
My Debonair is for sale - see
www.moonrovers.com
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
820 Jackson Drive
Paso Robles, CA 93446-1812
805.239.8112
805.674.5140 Cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MMMARKMM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Beech-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 04/15/03 |
In a message dated 4/15/2003 11:55:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
beech-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> www.moonrovers.com
>
Hi Guy,
Great web site and aircraft. How Much?
Kindest Regards,
Mark Mullahey
mmmarkmm(at)aol.com
925 684 3615
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Alaskan wind storm |
http://www.supercub.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album12&id=aaa
Kinda sad!
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mary Griffith <maryfgriffith(at)yahoo.com> |
There are a few Beech parts (apparently new) listed
for sale on Avweb.
Mary
http://search.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBINFLY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Mike Smith's speed conversion |
What happen to Mike Smith?
I read a lot about Mike Smith and his speed conversion in the ABS CD, and it
is simply amazing to be able to gain 20 to 40 knots without increase power.
I understand that Beryl D'Shannon now owns most of Mike Smith's STC. My phone
calls to Beryl D'Shannon lead me to believe that Beryl D'Shannon is not
interested in doing the speed conversion program as Mike Smith did, it is
more interested in selling products and engine STC's.
What happen to Mike Smith and his speed conversion program? If Mike Smith is
no longer in speed conversion business, does any of his employee who has the
know how still doing the speed conversion program? Does anyone know why Mike
Smith got out of the speed conversion business? Last question, where is and
what happen to his famous Bonanza, N111MS?
Regards,
Robin Hou
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
<5.1.1.1.2.20030423164317.022cc568(at)ntsrvr2okcofs.oklahoma-city.oilfield.slb.com>
Last time I saw Mike he was working on an MU2 at his shop in Johnson, KS
near the CO border. Had the largest collection of P-Baron fuselage's ever
seen in one place. Makes you wonder what he's thinking. He still has his
damaged racing Bo. He or someone in his family is into ag spraying. I
bought the 550 core out of his personal A36.
Joe
>
>What happen to Mike Smith?
>
>I read a lot about Mike Smith and his speed conversion in the ABS CD, and it
>is simply amazing to be able to gain 20 to 40 knots without increase power.
>
>I understand that Beryl D'Shannon now owns most of Mike Smith's STC. My phone
>calls to Beryl D'Shannon lead me to believe that Beryl D'Shannon is not
>interested in doing the speed conversion program as Mike Smith did, it is
>more interested in selling products and engine STC's.
>
>What happen to Mike Smith and his speed conversion program? If Mike Smith is
>no longer in speed conversion business, does any of his employee who has the
>know how still doing the speed conversion program? Does anyone know why Mike
>Smith got out of the speed conversion business? Last question, where is and
>what happen to his famous Bonanza, N111MS?
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin Hou
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | K35Bonanza(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
Joe,
Just curious but do you know if Mike is still in business to any extent or is
he completely out of the business? I'm on the opposite side of Kansas but
have often thought about calling him up to see if he has any intrest in doing
work.
John Atkin, IV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A J DeMarzo" <aerome(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
It's a shame that D'Shannon buys these things up apparently to get them off
the market. No, I've changed my mind, it absolutely sucks! I've heard that
Mike's son does some things, but JB or Kevin would probably know better.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ROBINFLY(at)aol.com>
Subject: Beech-List: Mike Smith's speed conversion
>
> What happen to Mike Smith?
>
> I read a lot about Mike Smith and his speed conversion in the ABS CD, and
it
> is simply amazing to be able to gain 20 to 40 knots without increase
power.
>
> I understand that Beryl D'Shannon now owns most of Mike Smith's STC. My
phone
> calls to Beryl D'Shannon lead me to believe that Beryl D'Shannon is not
> interested in doing the speed conversion program as Mike Smith did, it is
> more interested in selling products and engine STC's.
>
> What happen to Mike Smith and his speed conversion program? If Mike Smith
is
> no longer in speed conversion business, does any of his employee who has
the
> know how still doing the speed conversion program? Does anyone know why
Mike
> Smith got out of the speed conversion business? Last question, where is
and
> what happen to his famous Bonanza, N111MS?
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin Hou
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
<5.1.1.1.2.20030423171221.022cae70(at)ntsrvr2okcofs.oklahoma-city.oilfield.slb.com>
John,
You might call him or fly out there. Someone at the airport should have his
number.
Joe
>
>Joe,
>
>Just curious but do you know if Mike is still in business to any extent or is
>he completely out of the business? I'm on the opposite side of Kansas but
>have often thought about calling him up to see if he has any intrest in doing
>work.
>
>John Atkin, IV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
>
>What happen to Mike Smith?
>
>I read a lot about Mike Smith and his speed conversion in the ABS CD, and it
>is simply amazing to be able to gain 20 to 40 knots without increase power.
Power is much less effective at increasing speed than drag reduction. I
look at my Debonair and I see lotsa ways to reduce drag. But 20 to 40
knots??? Skepticism here....
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
820 Jackson Drive
Paso Robles, CA 93446-1812
805.239.8112
805.674.5140 Cell
Debonair N6134V for sale for a mere $83,000 Check it out at
www.moonrovers.com Tell your friends.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
In a message dated 4/23/03 10:51:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
kempthornes(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Power is much less effective at increasing speed than drag reduction. I
> look at my Debonair and I see lotsa ways to reduce drag. But 20 to 40
> knots??? Skepticism here....
>
Good Morning Hal,
I have never heard anyone claim that Mike picked up 40 knots on an airplane
without a power increase.
I did discuss this with Mike on one occasion. At that time (early nineties),
he said that the biggest increase he had been able get via clean up items was
twenty-five knots. He also commented that at least ten knots of that
increase was due to the atrocious rig that the airplane had been in before it
arrived at his shop.
From the early seventies to the early eighties, the factory would shove them
out the door almost regardless of how poorly they had been built and/or how
badly out of rig the airplane was found to be. Some owners brought brand new
airplanes directly from the factory to his place for him to work his magic.
He said that it was not uncommon to be able to pick up ten knots by doing
nothing more than getting the airplane properly rigged.
He also commented that some airplanes were just plain slow and others were
just plain fast. He didn't have an answer as to why, but felt that it had to
do with a combination of factors such as a bit of improper twist in the wing,
stabilizers and control surfaces. His comment was that there seemed to be as
much as a ten knot difference between the fastest and the slowest of
theoretically identical airframes.
Five knots was common.
That information dovetails nicely with my personal experience.
Via a combination of removing external drag producers, adding gap seals,
careful fitting and sealing of all doors, (including the wheel well doors)
and careful rigging, he claimed to be able to pick up about ten knots on an
average airplane.
That number seems doable to me. Add that to the factory ten knots that
nobody seems to be able to do anything about and it is easy to see that there
can be as much as twenty knots difference between two airplanes that seem to
be identical in all respects other than having Mike's clean up tricks.
Mike also had done some work on cleaning up the cooling drag by changing the
location of the propellor and drastically modifying the cooling air inlets
along with redirecting the airflow within the cowling. I got the impression
that he had not come to a conclusion as to how best to complete that task
when he decided to get out of the speed business.
Most of what Mike did is stuff that could be done by anyone who wanted to
spend the time required.
The biggest advantage to taking an airplane to Mike was that he had done a
lot of them and had a good feel for how much effort to spend and where to
spend it. There is nothing like experience and Mike had more experience
rigging and tweaking the Bonanzas than anyone else in the country.
I have heard many rumors as to reasons why Mike decided to sell out the
business and get back to crop dusting, but don't have any inside information
as to why it happened.
I imagine it had to do with the hassles he found when he was trying to build
that turbine powered, single engine, pressurized Bonanza derivative.
I wish he had never thought of leaving the rigging and tweaking field, but
that is the way things go!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Scott <winginit(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Need xpert advice. |
Howdo all you expert mechanics,
Two questions regarding my straight 35:
She didn't come from the factory with a steer able nose wheel but a kit
was soon installed. Question: are the bushings, bolts and other parts
listed in the parts manual applicable to this beech kit? also how tight
should this assembly be? Seems like a little play is advisable what with
all the movement that goes on during gear retraction.
Question #2
The E-80 starter slips a little on a cold start.. later (warmed engine)
starts are normal.
I understand that the friction can be tightened without resorting to an
overhaul; .. any experience here?
Pete
4579V ss1221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "smallfish(at)enid.com" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
Well, I am waiting? When is someone going to tell us who the affordable
speed Gurus are and what the best speed mods are. BTW I am only really
interested in those that will go on a straight 35.
I ususally Lurk the matronics sites. (Lurking in skydiving is the guy who
comes up to a freefall formation and then stops and watches everyone else
without participating.)
I seem to remember that someone in Lubbock Texas has a early Vtail. I am
moving there. Please drop me a line so that I can question you about the
area and who is there, aviation wise.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:49:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Beech-List: Mike Smith's speed conversion
In a message dated 4/23/03 10:51:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
kempthornes(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Power is much less effective at increasing speed than drag reduction. I
> look at my Debonair and I see lotsa ways to reduce drag. But 20 to 40
> knots??? Skepticism here....
>
Good Morning Hal,
I have never heard anyone claim that Mike picked up 40 knots on an airplane
without a power increase.
I did discuss this with Mike on one occasion. At that time (early
nineties),
he said that the biggest increase he had been able get via clean up items
was
twenty-five knots. He also commented that at least ten knots of that
increase was due to the atrocious rig that the airplane had been in before
it
arrived at his shop.
>From the early seventies to the early eighties, the factory would shove
them
out the door almost regardless of how poorly they had been built and/or how
badly out of rig the airplane was found to be. Some owners brought brand
new
airplanes directly from the factory to his place for him to work his magic.
He said that it was not uncommon to be able to pick up ten knots by doing
nothing more than getting the airplane properly rigged.
He also commented that some airplanes were just plain slow and others were
just plain fast. He didn't have an answer as to why, but felt that it had
to
do with a combination of factors such as a bit of improper twist in the
wing,
stabilizers and control surfaces. His comment was that there seemed to be
as
much as a ten knot difference between the fastest and the slowest of
theoretically identical airframes.
Five knots was common.
That information dovetails nicely with my personal experience.
Via a combination of removing external drag producers, adding gap seals,
careful fitting and sealing of all doors, (including the wheel well doors)
and careful rigging, he claimed to be able to pick up about ten knots on an
average airplane.
That number seems doable to me. Add that to the factory ten knots that
nobody seems to be able to do anything about and it is easy to see that
there
can be as much as twenty knots difference between two airplanes that seem
to
be identical in all respects other than having Mike's clean up tricks.
Mike also had done some work on cleaning up the cooling drag by changing
the
location of the propellor and drastically modifying the cooling air inlets
along with redirecting the airflow within the cowling. I got the
impression
that he had not come to a conclusion as to how best to complete that task
when he decided to get out of the speed business.
Most of what Mike did is stuff that could be done by anyone who wanted to
spend the time required.
The biggest advantage to taking an airplane to Mike was that he had done a
lot of them and had a good feel for how much effort to spend and where to
spend it. There is nothing like experience and Mike had more experience
rigging and tweaking the Bonanzas than anyone else in the country.
I have heard many rumors as to reasons why Mike decided to sell out the
business and get back to crop dusting, but don't have any inside
information
as to why it happened.
I imagine it had to do with the hassles he found when he was trying to
build
that turbine powered, single engine, pressurized Bonanza derivative.
I wish he had never thought of leaving the rigging and tweaking field, but
that is the way things go!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff King <jeff(at)aerodata.net> |
| Subject: | Straight 35 vs. Musketeer |
These planes have two things in common, the used price is similar and they
are made by beech. But I suspect that is it.
I am trying to decide if I should skip the Musketeer and go right for the
Straight 35. I realize I will take a hit on insurance and need to extend my
training longer to cover complex airframes. But I had some questions first
since this is the first time I considered a Straight 35.
1. Is the cabin room as big as the Musketeer?
2. How about safety? Has the breakup problem ever been solved or is this why
Straight 35's seem to have such a bargain basement price?
3. What does a rebuild on a 185 engine typically cost?
4. Is the weight and balance as picky on the Straight 35 as it is on later
V's?
Thanks for the tips ahead of time.
Regards,
--
Jeff King, jeff(at)aerodata.net on 05/02/2003
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
In a message dated 5/2/03 10:32:06 AM Central Daylight Time,
smallfish(at)enid.com writes:
> Well, I am waiting? When is someone going to tell us who the affordable
> speed Gurus are and what the best speed mods are. BTW I am only really
> interested in those that will go on a straight 35.
>
Good Morning Steve,
I don't think there is any speed guru operating today in the manner that Mike
Smith did.
If you want to increase the speed of your straight 35, just start taking
things off.
Get rid of all the antennas.
More on this later.
Make sure your airplane is rigged as close to the book as is possible.
The first step is to be sure that the flaps and ailerons are rigged as the
book shows. That requires special travel boards. Next you use the special
travel jigs to set the ruddervators. There were instructions on how to make
your own travel boards and ruddervator jigs in the early maintenance manuals.
If you still have one of those manuals, make your own. If not, ABS has them
for rent. Or, alternatively, you can nose around and see if you can find
that rare shop that has a set and borrow theirs!
The next step is to level the airplane accurately on the ground and check
that you have a properly oriented inclinometer installed. The one in your T&
B may be adequate if it is properly adjusted.
Then, and only then, test fly the airplane and see if it flies straight. If
not, follow the sequence in the manual and adjust the ruddervator cables to
get the directional factor under control. Move the wings to take care of any
roll irregularity.
Rigging the wings with the leading edge as low as it will go and the trailing
edges as high as can be done and still be in trim is best for the Bonanza.
Checking the fit of all the doors and eliminating any air leaks will help a
LOT. Every little air leak is like a porcupine quill sticking six inches out
into the airstream. The bigger the leak, the bigger the quill.
Some folks, Mike included, felt that redirecting the exhaust flow so that it
heads aft instead of down will help.
The original factory stacks on your airplane were cut off flush with the
fuselage. They later started to extend them further down below the fuselage
to reduce noise. Even Beech admitted that the exhaust flow was equivalent to
a stick the size of the exhaust pipe sticking down two feet beyond where the
pipe terminated. Turn that flow smoothly aft and that two foot stick should
be gone.
Once that is done, you can add gap strips if you like. They have been
reported to help the speed a little. Mike used them.
Remember, add weight and the airplane slows down. Regardless of the trim,
lighter is faster. The only exception to that is when the airframe is driven
beyond the speeds at which it was designed to travel.
Adding weight will move the best L/D speed higher. That means that the
heavier airplane will be more efficient at very high speeds. It is even
possible that a heavy V35B might go faster pulling 225 horsepower than would
a straight 35 at the same horsepower.
So, a light weight Bonanza will hit that "brick wall" faster than will a
heavy one. If you fly alongside an early Bonanza being driven by a lot of
horsepower, you will see that the top of the fuselage is almost level with
the horizon. That is getting the tail and the back of the fuselage up into a
position where it causes a LOT of drag.
The Bonanza was designed to fly using a 165 horsepower engine. It was also
designed to operate at a gross weight of 2550 pounds. They found that 165
just wasn't enough and the early airplanes came out with 185 for one minute
during takeoff.
Since it is never legal for you to EVER pull more than 165 horsepower
continuously out of any engine that you have in that airframe, it is unlikely
that you will have the problem of hitting the "Brick Wall."
Back to removing all of the antennas. You can use the Mike Smith idea of
mounting a whip inside the plastic tail cone for a com antenna and there is
an after market plastic wing tip available which contains a VOR antenna. Put
those on your airplane. It absolutely has to go faster if there are no
antennas on the outside of the airplane.
Just few things to get you started!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Straight 35 vs. Musketeer |
Jeff King wrote:
>
> These planes have two things in common, the used price is similar and they
> are made by beech. But I suspect that is it.
>
> I am trying to decide if I should skip the Musketeer and go right for the
> Straight 35. I realize I will take a hit on insurance and need to extend my
> training longer to cover complex airframes. But I had some questions first
> since this is the first time I considered a Straight 35.
>
> 1. Is the cabin room as big as the Musketeer?
> 2. How about safety? Has the breakup problem ever been solved or is this why
> Straight 35's seem to have such a bargain basement price?
> 3. What does a rebuild on a 185 engine typically cost?
> 4. Is the weight and balance as picky on the Straight 35 as it is on later
> V's?
>
> Thanks for the tips ahead of time.
>
> Regards,
Jeff,
1. Not sure of the Musketeer's cabin size, but the v-tail Bonanza (all
years) has a cabin width of 42". This is about the same as the early VW
Beetle. Fatter cabins make for slower flying speeds, unless you make up for
it with gobs of horsepower. The Mooney gets a good deal of its speed and
economy from a 36" wide cabin.
2. There's a long story about the Bonanza v-tail safety record, but it
boils down to this: The v-tail is trickier than it appears in terms of
weight and balance and in terms of corrosion maintenance. Balance the
ruddervators according to the (new) spec's, fly it gently, keep corrosion
away from it, and no harm will ever come to you.
If you are shopping for a Bonanza, read in the logbooks to see if AD
2002-21-13 has been done, and if so, how. (You can live with the speed
restriction by putting placards in the cabin, or eliminate it by performing
the directions therein. Find out which one they did. It may cost upwards
of $5,000-$6,000 to have ruddervators with corrosion rebuilt and rebalanced,
but money well spent. Hopefully they spent it, so you won't.
3. The overhaul of a Continental E185-8, E185-11, or E225-8 engine will
cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $15,000-$20,000.
Accessories may or may not be included in the price quote you get.
Bendix PS-5C Caruburetor is about $1,200
Bendix S6LN-21 magnetoes are about $700 each,
Vacuum pump is about $500,
Thompson TF-1900 fuel pump is about $500,
(Note: you can have them re-done for about $1,500
which eliminates the 300-hour inspection forever.)
Starter and Generator are somewhere around $500-$1,000
TBO is officially 1,500 hours, but sadly, a more realistic time is 1,200.
It may get better as more people put JPI or GEM engine analyzers in their
planes to monitor cylinder head temps.
4. Weight and balance is not as tricky, because there are only 4 seats and
no extended baggage compartment. The later models had the same airframe,
but they tried to push the cargo area aft another two feet and add two seats
back there. Sure, a heavier engine was put in the front, but still ...
So the original Bonanza is pretty simple to W&B, really. Mine is a '54 E35,
and I can fill it like so without getting out of limits:
. Fuel Fuel
Front Rear Luggage (mains) (aux)
seat seat (lbs) 40 max 10 max
----- ----- ------- ------- ------
1 0 255 40 0
1 0 140 40 10
1 1 185 40 0
1 1 140 40 10
1 2 85 40 0
1 2 40 40 10
2 0 255 40 0
2 0 240 40 10
2 1 185 40 0
2 1 140 40 10
2 2 25 40 0
2 2 0 40 5
(4) 170-lb people in, full 40 gallons of gas, and 25 lbs of cargo in the
back. Or 10 additional gallons in the aux tank and a whopping 5 lbs of
baggage. Not much, but certainly no extraordinary math skills are needed to
figure this out.
I usually fly with 3 occupants and about 100 lbs of junk for a weekend. It
flies fine.
Your weight and balance will vary, but I don't think it will be by much.
You will have roughly a 950 lb. payload, which you have to admit wasn't too
shabby for 1947.
Ron Davis
Newport Beach, Calif.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Scott <winginit(at)jps.net> |
Howdo members,
I have need for a fuel quantity sender for my straight 35 with the 10
gallon aux tank in the baggage compartment, mine is inop.
Right now I just fill it and run 'till she sputters but I'd like to be a
little more hi tech.
My parts manual only shows the 20 gal tank which seems to have the
sender located in a different location from mine which is on the right
(co:pilot) side.
If you don't have a serviceable one.. do you have the correct part
number?
Hopefully
Pete Scott N4579V ss 1221 Northern California (AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "smallfish(at)enid.com" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
Thanks, these are some great ideas to start with. The top and bottom of my
plane have antennas sticking up everywhere. It seems to be in rig but since
I am getting ready to pull the Ruddervators in order to meet the AD I will
go ahead and check the things you mention. I have been interested in the
gap seals for a while they seem to be a simple and effective soulution. As
for the exhaust. that may have to wait a while. Thanks for the advice.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 12:43:43 EDT
Subject: Re: Beech-List: Mike Smith's speed conversion
In a message dated 5/2/03 10:32:06 AM Central Daylight Time,
smallfish(at)enid.com writes:
> Well, I am waiting? When is someone going to tell us who the affordable
> speed Gurus are and what the best speed mods are. BTW I am only really
> interested in those that will go on a straight 35.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Smith's speed conversion |
In a message dated 5/5/03 10:55:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
smallfish(at)enid.com writes:
> I have been interested in the
> gap seals for a while they seem to be a simple and effective solution. As
> for the exhaust. that may have to wait a while. Thanks for the advice.
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D.
>
>
Good Afternoon Steve,
One more comment.
Don't do the flap to fuselage gap seal until you are absolutely certain that
the wing will not have to be moved. Most serious rigging efforts will
require that it be moved. If you have the gap seal riveted to the fuselage,
it can be a real pain.
Unfortunately, most shops will droop a flap or bend an aileron tab to pick up
a wing instead of following the manual procedure. It is a lot easier and
satisfies most customers.
If you really want the airplane to be fast, you must use the travel boards to
be sure the flaps and ailerons have not been misrigged to provide hands off
flight. After you are certain the flaps and ailerons are properly faired to
the wing, then, and only then, rig for hands off flight by moving the wing.
After that is accomplished, you can attach the gap seal for the flap to
fuselage gap.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "smallfish(at)enid.com" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
| Subject: | Big Ugly model V-tail |
here is a photo of a drone made by Beechcraft in the 50s and 60s.
www.wsmr-history.org/droneA1.htm
I have looked the drone over and the tail is pretty close to the Bonanza
and the prop is just a smaller version of the Beech 215.
The engine is a 4 cyl. McCullogh.
I wonder if the engine leaks oil in the E-185 tradition.
I understand that crew comfort suffered.
Blue Skies
Steve D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 1954 E35 Project FOR SALE |
Hi All,
It looks as though my 1954 E35 Bonanza project will have to pass on to
someone else. Too much for me at the present. I'd like to sell it for
"restoration" rather than part it out - not too many '54's out there flying.
It's complete except for engine & prop. Came from the factory with E225-8,
but was later used to develop an IO360 STC. Either engine could be
installed. Stripped and disassembled (for paint and interior). Needs side
glass, 2 "re-skins" (aileron & ruddervator) and IRAN since it's been in
storage for ~15 years (though everything looks pretty good). Has mid '70's
panel, D'Shannon tip tanks, new D'Shannon windshield.
Asking $10,000
Happy Landings,
Jeff Wirs
Coral Springs, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "younes laraki" <ylaraki(at)acdim.co.ma> |
| Subject: | 1954 E35 Project FOR SALE |
I have a 1962 P35 Beech Bonanza that has been damaged following a harsh
landing.
Do you know whether I could use your 1954 E35 to rebuild my P35
(essentially the wings, the flaps, the landing gear,...)?
Thanks
Youns Laraki
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-beech-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-beech-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de
JWirs(at)aol.com
Envoy: vendredi 16 mai 2003 12:11
: beech-list(at)matronics.com
Objet: Beech-List: 1954 E35 Project FOR SALE
Hi All,
It looks as though my 1954 E35 Bonanza project will have to pass on to
someone else. Too much for me at the present. I'd like to sell it for
"restoration" rather than part it out - not too many '54's out there
flying.
It's complete except for engine & prop. Came from the factory with
E225-8,
but was later used to develop an IO360 STC. Either engine could be
installed. Stripped and disassembled (for paint and interior). Needs
side
glass, 2 "re-skins" (aileron & ruddervator) and IRAN since it's been in
storage for ~15 years (though everything looks pretty good). Has mid
'70's
panel, D'Shannon tip tanks, new D'Shannon windshield.
Asking $10,000
Happy Landings,
Jeff Wirs
Coral Springs, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 1954 E35 Project FOR SALE |
>
>I have a 1962 P35 Beech Bonanza that has been damaged following a harsh
>landing.
>
>Do you know whether I could use your 1954 E35 to rebuild my P35
>(essentially the wings, the flaps, the landing gear,...)?
Maybe a few parts from E35 to P35 but not much I think. Get Norman Colvins
book - I forget the title! I can look in my library this evening if need
be. He details differences from year to year. The P35 is stronger,
heavier etc. You need it to look like a P35 and be legal.
My Debonair is for sale! See www.moonrovers.com
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 1954 E35 Project FOR SALE |
| From: | "Marcos R. Della" <mdella(at)cstone.com> |
Since when did they start calling it "El Paso do Robles"? I lived in
SLO for 15 years and only saw that in history books :-)
Marcos
-----Original Message-----
From: kempthornes [mailto:kempthornes(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: RE : Beech-List: 1954 E35 Project FOR SALE
-->
>
>I have a 1962 P35 Beech Bonanza that has been damaged following a harsh
>landing.
>
>Do you know whether I could use your 1954 E35 to rebuild my P35
>(essentially the wings, the flaps, the landing gear,...)?
Maybe a few parts from E35 to P35 but not much I think. Get Norman
Colvins
book - I forget the title! I can look in my library this evening if
need
be. He details differences from year to year. The P35 is stronger,
heavier etc. You need it to look like a P35 and be legal.
My Debonair is for sale! See www.moonrovers.com
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bell, Bruce B." <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | A35 Skin Thickness Inspections |
Have any of you heard of a group doing skin thickness inspections at your
airport? If so I would like to know!
Regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas (LBB)
A35 N723B D-1730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A J DeMarzo" <aerome(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A35 Skin Thickness Inspections |
Bruce;
Contact Jon Adair, he's in Ft. Worth and can do this as a single or a group.
He may be on the list, but if not, his address is AV8TRQA(at)aol.com .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bell, Bruce B." <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Beech-List: A35 Skin Thickness Inspections
>
> Have any of you heard of a group doing skin thickness inspections at your
> airport? If so I would like to know!
> Regards,
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas (LBB)
> A35 N723B D-1730
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bell, Bruce B." <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | AD 2002-25-13 Inspections |
Anyone have SRS Aviation do their skin thickness inspection? How was it? How
much? Any info would be great!
Regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
A35 D-1730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 1954 E35 Project FOR SALE |
>
>Since when did they start calling it "El Paso do Robles"? I lived in
>SLO for 15 years and only saw that in history books :-)
Hi,
I don't know, I'm new here! They have put up signs and monuments as you
enter the town with the old name on. I like it. Not like every place
else. City vehicles, letterheads, etc have that name.
How's the project going?
I just looked in paypal but no joy yet?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Scott <winginit(at)jps.net> |
Hello engine guru's
I need input on my options. Everything is running fine.. fresh annual..
E-185-11
but, I'd like to plan for the future (read start saving my money) and am
confused:
I would like to go to a 225 hp when the time comes.
What about cylinder/piston(#of rings, etc) options.
I have a relatively new (250 hr) Hartzell prop, is it compatible?
Later model wobble pump/fuel selector is installed which, I understand,
is needed for the 225.
Do I need a different oil reservoir (is more cooling required?)
Any experience, thots or comments will be appreciated.
Pete Scott
N4579V Straight 35 ss1221
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Beech-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/29/03 |
Hi Pete,
RE:
I need input on my options. Everything is running fine.. fresh annual..
E-185-11
but, I'd like to plan for the future (read start saving my money) and am
confused:
I would like to go to a 225 hp when the time comes.
I'm in the process (slow, red-tape, etc) of trying to "resurrect" an STC to
install an IO360 (210hp) into the pre '57 Bonanza's. I'll keep your email and
let you know as (if) progress occurs. The IO360 is a great replacement -
current production (parts availability), 40lbs lighter (no flight performance
change), wet sump (no more oil cooler tank), and room to work on it (have you
tried to change the starter on an E series?).
Jeff Wirs
Coral Springs, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine input. |
Peter Scott wrote:
> Hello engine guru's
>
> I need input on my options. Everything is running fine.. fresh annual..
> E-185-11 but, I'd like to plan for the future (read start saving my money)
> and am confused:
> I would like to go to a 225 hp when the time comes.
> What about cylinder/piston(#of rings, etc) options.
> I have a relatively new (250 hr) Hartzell prop, is it compatible?
> Later model wobble pump/fuel selector is installed which, I understand,
> is needed for the 225.
> Do I need a different oil reservoir (is more cooling required?)
> Any experience, thots or comments will be appreciated.
>
> Pete Scott
> N4579V Straight 35 ss1221
Pete,
Here's what (very) little I know about this:
First, read the ABS Magazine May 2003 issue (pg 7816) about overhauling an
E185-11 engine. Lots of good info there.
Some die-hards will chime in and say "Keep the E185." The primary advantage
to this is that you don't have to change anything when you do the overhaul,
and changing things usually means adding weight to a plane that handles
better the lighter it is.
You can buy a core and start the long process of overhauling it yourself.
This way, you can take your time and buy as your budget allows. You can
decide if you want to overhaul/use your existing accessories, or buy them
too and do an engine swap in a single day.
If this is a do-it-yourself kinda job using a runout core, then here's what
you will probably want to know.
Crankshaft:
There are preliminary and unfounded rumors that the v-tail ruddervator
vibration problem *may* be due to E-series engines involved in a prop
strike, and subsequently declared good and overhauled. A prop strike
apparently has been noticed as a common history point in the early Bonanzas
with ruddervator vibration damage. The choice is yours.
Cylinders:
6 of 'em. I believe the current (i.e., "best") casting number on the
cylinder is 536727. New steel cylinders from Continental, and you can get
them as a matched set of 6, and TCM will try to keep the weights reasonably
even between all the cylinders. Order the 4-ring pistons, as the 4th ring
acts as a preliminary oil wiper, and really reduces the oil consumption.
Mine has the 4-ring pistons, and is about 600 hours now. It goes about 12
hrs before I have to add a quart. Oh. The cylinder kits will NOT have the
piston wrist pins. You have to order them separately. Add about $30 ea. I
bought my cylinders from:
A.E.R.O. Aviation Company, Inc.
3701 Hwy 162
P.O. Box 1287
Granite City, IL 60240
618-797-6630 or 800-362-3044
As of 1996, it was about $900 per 4-ring cylinder.
Another E-engine parts source is:
Premium Aircraft Parts
4117-A Grand Ave.
Ft. Smith, AR 72904
800-932-2192
479-649-0649 fax
Chris Baker
If you are rebuilding cylinders, then there are many shops that will do a
good job in reworking them. I'm in Southern California, and like:
Corona Cylinder Overhaul
1965 Aviation Drive
Corona, CA 92880-9602
909-736-6452
909-736-6801 fax
Email: craig(at)coronacylinder.com
http://www.coronacylinder.com
As you are up in the Bay Area (California), you probably have your own local
sources, though.
Aviation Research Systems has an STC to replace the E-series cylinders with
IO-470N cylinders, but I don't think it covers the 35, A35, or B35. Pooh.
Also, ARS' customer service image is not all that great. I'd check with
them very closely before committing to expensive work done by them.
Oh.
As for the accessories:
Magneto:
Savage Magneto
General Delivery, Oakland, CA 94617
-or-
??? Langly St.,
Oakland, CA 94614
510-562-2941
Al Marcucci
Bendix PS-5C carburetor &
Thompson Fuel pump:
Accessory Connection
4903 Diggins Trail, PO Box 886
Somerset, CA 95684
530-622-1650
Oh, yeah. There's now a guy who will "rework" the Thompson TF-1900 fuel
pump so it no longer needs to be inspected every 300 hours. For a paltry
$1,100, it will go to engine TBO, or thereabouts:
Thunderbird Accessories
5406 N. Rockwell Ave.
Bethany, OK 73008
405-789-1822
405-789-8672
Paul Finefrock
Starter, Generator, and really, all accessories:
Cruiseair Aviation Inc.
Ramona Airport [RNM]
2428 Montecito Road
Ramona, CA 92065
760-789-8020
760-789-6935 (fax)
Dick Kuck (say "cook")
If you go with the bigger E225 engine, then you will need to replace your
"tire pump" fuel selector with a "hand brake" fuel selector used in the
later E225'd Bonanzas. This will be a bit problematic to find, but the
salvage yards may come to your rescue. I'd try:
Surprise Valley Aviation
Cedarville Airport
Cedarville, CA 96104
530-279-2111
530-279-6173 (fax)
email:
http://www.comancheparts.com/index.html
As they are close to you. Otherwise, try:
Arrell Aircraft
701 Del Norte Blvd., Suite 220
Oxnard, CA 93030
805-604-0439
805-604-0429 (fax)
Rick Leatherwood
email:
http://www.arrellaircraft.com/
... as Rick knows most Beech part numbers off the top of his head.
If you replace the wobble pump, then take a hard look at the fuel lines.
There may be tiny cracks, so be prepared to replace the lines as well.
The E225-8 engine came standard with the fuel primer system -- gas is routed
from the fuel feed line through a solenoid valve, into a 4 or 6-way spider,
and directly to the cylinders. It is supposed to help in cold starts. I
have never needed it, and can't see the need for one if you are trying to
add it on. Besides, the silly solenoid costs over three THOUSAND dollars if
you can find one (or $30 if you use a -very- similar solenoid used in LPG
natural gas fueled cars).
I imagine you have the Hartzell HC-12X20 prop conversion. It will work on
the E185 or the E225 without trouble. Just be -very- careful putting the
prop on. The "popular" torque values of 300 ft. lbs will crush a slip ring
in the hub, causing bronze shavings to kill your new engine in short order.
Read up on the past articled by Lew Gage in ABS Magazine about this. Get
the CD-ROM of back issues to make it easy on yourself.
As long as I'm mentioning Lew, he will soon be closing his spin-on oil
filter business, so order one soon. About $500.00.
Sunrise Filters, Inc.
2255 Sunrise
Reno NV 89509
775-826-7184
775-826-7184 (fax)
Lew Gage
Oil cooler tank:
There were two or three different oil cooler tanks used in the early 35s as
they made production changes. If yours has the circular shroud in front of
the tank's cooling tubes, then you may need a new tank. Not sure. My parts
book says that they switched over at s/n D-1117, and yours is D-1221, so you
should be okay ... if the book is right.
Finally, a word about placards and POHs:
Even if you upgrade to the E225, you still have to operate as if you still
had an E185-11 engine in there. That means that your speed and temperature
placards (and limits) stay the same. Fuel pressure, oil pressure, oil temp,
Cylinder Head temp are all the same. and 2300 rpm on takeoff (or whatever
for the Hartzell), and 1900-2300 for cruise. Darn. What they don't tell
you is that you are now able to fly a lot higher into the green arc than you
were before. Yay.
Best regards,
Ron Davis
1954 E35 Bonanza
Newport Beach, Calif.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine input. |
In a message dated 5/31/2003 2:29:03 AM Central Standard Time,
radavis2522(at)netzero.net writes:
> Finally, a word about placards and POHs:
> Even if you upgrade to the E225, you still have to operate as if you still
> had an E185-11 engine in there. That means that your speed and temperature
> placards (and limits) stay the same. Fuel pressure, oil pressure, oil temp,
>
> Cylinder Head temp are all the same. and 2300 rpm on takeoff (or whatever
> for the Hartzell), and 1900-2300 for cruise. Darn. What they don't tell
> you is that you are now able to fly a lot higher into the green arc than you
>
> were before. Yay.
>
Good Morning Ron,
Very good message with one small error.
When the E-225 is installed in the straight 35, it is, as you state, limited
to 2300 RPM for take off, but it is limited to a MAXIMUM of 2050 for all other
operations.
In addition, the MP is restricted to a maximum of 26.5 inches while at 2300
and 27.5 inches while at 2050.
The 2300 and 26.5 inch power setting is limited to one minute and is only
allowed during takeoff.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine input. |
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Good Morning Ron,
>
> Very good message with one small error.
>
> When the E-225 is installed in the straight 35, it is, as you state,
> limited to 2300 RPM for take off, but it is limited to a MAXIMUM of
> 2050 for all other operations.
>
> In addition, the MP is restricted to a maximum of 26.5 inches while
> at 2300 and 27.5 inches while at 2050.
>
> The 2300 and 26.5 inch power setting is limited to one minute and is
> only allowed during takeoff.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
Oboy. Sure makes it difficult to operate one of those babies.
I dug up the Hartzell Type Certificate Data Sheet on the HC12X20, with the
8433 blades (which are the ones I think the Bonanza uses - I have the Beech
215 electric prop myself) and found these little nuggets:
E-185 w/ (1) 5th order and (1) 6th order damper:
Takeoff redline at 2600 rpm
E-185 w/ (2) 6th order dampers:
Takeoff redline at 2600 rpm
E-225:
Avoid continuous operation
between 1400 - 1700 rpm,
between 1900 - 2200 rpm, and
between 2450 - 2550 rpm.
(Wotta pain!)
And then, there's the Continental E-225 Type Certificate Data sheet that
says stuff like max CHT of 525 (spark plug sensor), or 450 (well-type
thermocouple), and which spark plugs you can use, but no real info on the
operating limitations of the engine. For that, you can look at the
Continental Operator's Manual for E-165, E-185, E-225 Aircraft Engines. That
has the performance graphs for hp at a given fuel flow rate.
Of course, these are just the manufacturer's limits, which take a back seat
to the Beech Pilot's Operating Handbook limitations, which you have to use
as the final say on all of this.
I don't have a POH for the 35/A35/B35, but Ol' Bob probably has one next to
his computer, so we can take his word for it that the limits are, but just
to be sure, I swiped this info from the vintagebonanza.com website:
Model 35 w/ E185-1, E185-8, E185-11, or E25-8 engine:
Takeoff : 2300 rpm @ 26.5" MP (185 hp) or less.
All other operations: 2050 rpm @ 27.5" MP (165 hp) or less.
Green : 1300 - 2050 rpm (tough if Hartzell says to avoid 1900-2200)
Yellow : 2050 - 2300 rpm
Redline: 2300 rpm
Of course, two of my buddies fly with an A35 / E225-8 / Hartzell prop and
they tend to ignore all these limitations and fly with the G35's limitations
(which lists performance settings for the E225-8), and have had no trouble
at all. Its their call to make, though, to exceed the limitations set in
their POH.
In any case, this doesn't really have much to do with the overhaul/upgrade
to your engine, just what you can do with it once its done.
Ron Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Beech-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/30/03 |
| From: | Stuart J Brown <stu_brown(at)juno.com> |
Just think about it, a Bonanza with an engine 40 lbs lighter than the
original. Just what we need, CG far enough aft we have to add 40 lbs of
lead to the nose. :-)
Stu Brown G-35 driver.
writes:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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>
> Today's complete Beech-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the
> Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain
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> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
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>
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> ================================================
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> ================================================
>
>
>
> Beech-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 05/30/03: 1
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:43 AM - Re: Beech-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/29/03
> (JWirs(at)aol.com)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: JWirs(at)aol.com
> Subject: Beech-List: Re: Beech-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/29/03
>
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> RE:
> I need input on my options. Everything is running fine.. fresh
> annual..
> E-185-11
> but, I'd like to plan for the future (read start saving my money)
> and am
> confused:
> I would like to go to a 225 hp when the time comes.
>
> I'm in the process (slow, red-tape, etc) of trying to "resurrect" an
> STC to
> install an IO360 (210hp) into the pre '57 Bonanza's. I'll keep your
> email and
>
> let you know as (if) progress occurs. The IO360 is a great
> replacement -
> current production (parts availability), 40lbs lighter (no flight
> performance
> change), wet sump (no more oil cooler tank), and room to work on it
> (have you
> tried to change the starter on an E series?).
>
> Jeff Wirs
> Coral Springs, FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Beech-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/31/03 |
In a message dated 6/1/03 1:56:41 AM Central Daylight Time,
beech-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> Of course, two of my buddies fly with an A35 / E225-8 / Hartzell prop and
> they tend to ignore all these limitations and fly with the G35's limitations
>
> (which lists performance settings for the E225-8), and have had no trouble
> at all. Its their call to make, though, to exceed the limitations set in
> their POH.
>
Good Morning Ron,
Your friends with the A35 are probably legal. I DON'T have the POHs for any
of the Bonanzas at my desk but I am familiar with the basic situation.
The numbers I quoted, and which BG has listed on his site, are applicable to
the straight 35, not the A35.
When the E-225 is installed in the A35, and later Bonanzas, it can be used to
the maximum listed for any Bonanza. It does require some fuel pump and other
considerations, but the full 225 horsepower is legal for the time specified.
Incidentally, the limits that you use in your F35 are not the maximum limits
at which the engine is approved to be operated. They are just the limits at
which the engine is to be operated when installed in that airframe. All of the
appropriate data is readily available in the Type Certificate Data Sheets.
An interesting quirk in the regulations is also evident when one peruses
those type sheets.
If you have an E-185-11, or any other similar engine, installed in an A35
airframe, you can only use the power with which that airframe was originally
approved.
The E-225 engine is the only one that is approved to use higher powers in the
A35. I know it makes no sense at all, but them's the rules!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
In a message, Ron Davis writes:
> Of course, two of my buddies fly with an A35 / E225-8 / Hartzell prop and
> they tend to ignore all these limitations and fly with the G35's
limitations
>
> (which lists performance settings for the E225-8), and have had no trouble
> at all. Its their call to make, though, to exceed the limitations set in
> their POH.
>
Good Morning Ron,
Your friends with the A35 are probably legal. I DON'T have the POHs for any
of the Bonanzas at my desk but I am familiar with the basic situation.
The numbers I quoted, and which BG has listed on his site, are applicable to
the straight 35, not the A35.
When the E-225 is installed in the A35, and later Bonanzas, it can be used to
the maximum listed for any Bonanza. It does require some fuel pump and other
considerations, but the full 225 horsepower is legal for the time specified.
Incidentally, the limits that you use in your F35 are not the maximum limits
at which the engine is approved to be operated. They are just the limits at
which the engine is to be operated when installed in that airframe. All of
the
appropriate data is readily available in the Type Certificate Data Sheets.
An interesting quirk in the regulations is also evident when one peruses
those type sheets.
If you have an E-185-11, or any other similar engine, installed in an A35
airframe, you can only use the power with which that airframe was originally
approved.
The E-225 engine is the only one that is approved to use higher powers in the
A35.=A0 I know it makes no sense at all, but them's the rules!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Hours to R&R cylinders |
Anyone know about how many hours would be billed for remove and refit a
cylinder? Or a set of six? IO-470-K
My Debonair, which is still for sale, has low compressions but no problem
can be seen when cylinder is removed. So I will either get the easy way
out, hone and new rings, or the hard way, new cylinders.
Speaking of new cylinders, any suggestions for parts sources welcome.
Oh and what does it take to make it an IO-470-N?
See it at www.moonrovers.com
Was asking $83K but with new work maybe more.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
820 Jackson Drive
Paso Robles, CA 93446-1812
805.239.8112
805.674.5140 Cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "carmine pecoraro" <aeroauto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hours to R&R cylinders |
You probably have the guides checked for wear. They can cause low
compression.
cheers carmine pecoraro
>From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Beech-List: Hours to R&R cylinders
>Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 11:28:36 -0700
>
>
>Anyone know about how many hours would be billed for remove and refit a
>cylinder? Or a set of six? IO-470-K
>
>My Debonair, which is still for sale, has low compressions but no problem
>can be seen when cylinder is removed. So I will either get the easy way
>out, hone and new rings, or the hard way, new cylinders.
>
>Speaking of new cylinders, any suggestions for parts sources welcome.
>
>Oh and what does it take to make it an IO-470-N?
>
>See it at www.moonrovers.com
>Was asking $83K but with new work maybe more.
>
>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
>820 Jackson Drive
>Paso Robles, CA 93446-1812
>805.239.8112
>805.674.5140 Cell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Christensen" <bchriste(at)wecon.com> |
Hell-o friends,
We have a 1947 "Straight 35" . . . and have a question for you.
It has tip tanks (fiberglass) which are identified as STC SA153EA in the
log book. They were installed in 1970.
We need to replace the "sump drains" as the current ones do not flow
very well. Any ideas who support these tanks on where we can get parts
and instructions on proper replacement procedures.
We also need new "stoppers"for the "filler holes".
Thanks,
Bob Christensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
Check the Aircraft Spruce Catalog they may be $10 items - they are usually
standard parts.
hal
Debonair for sale - see www.moonrovers.com
>
>Hell-o friends,
>
>We have a 1947 "Straight 35" . . . and have a question for you.
>
>It has tip tanks (fiberglass) which are identified as STC SA153EA in the
>log book. They were installed in 1970.
>
>We need to replace the "sump drains" as the current ones do not flow
>very well. Any ideas who support these tanks on where we can get parts
>and instructions on proper replacement procedures.
>
>We also need new "stoppers"for the "filler holes".
>
>Thanks,
>Bob Christensen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 6/16/03 10:16:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
bchriste(at)wecon.com writes:
> We need to replace the "sump drains" as the current ones do not flow
> very well. Any ideas who support these tanks on where we can get parts
> and instructions on proper replacement procedures.
>
> We also need new "stoppers"for the "filler holes".
>
> Thanks,
> Bob Christensen
>
Good Morning Bob,
I haven't checked the STC number, but those are most likely tip tanks made by
the Flight Extenders Company.
That STC is now held by Beryl D'Shannon. It is the one on which their whole
line of tip tanks has been based and is supported by them.
The drain valves should be stock items available at any supplier. Chief,
Aircraft Spruce or whatever.
Do your's have the expandable thermos bottle style of fill hole stoppers?
Those are probably available from BDS, but they are really just an oil filler
stopper often used on large trucks and stationary diesel engines. Our oldest
son has that style cap on his early BDS tanks. If you need a source for
those style caps, I am sure he will supply it as soon as he reads your message.
In any case, BDS should be able to advise you of what you need.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Christensen" <BCHRISTE(at)wecon.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Tip-Tanks |
Hi Again - another question:
Does anyone have experience removing and/or replacing the "sump drains"
for "older" (Late 60s / Early 70's vintage) fiberglass tip-tanks? I'm
not sure what the brand name was but the STC SA153EA (or SA283EA) is
currently held by D'Shannon.
Thanks,
Bob Christensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck McFarlin <chmcfarlin(at)comcast.net> |
Hi,
I have a nice, old "D" model. The main cabin door had accumulated 50 years of
old glue and seal material. I removed the door and removed the old paint and
glue off the interior side of the door. The door has been properly repainted and
I am now ready to install the new seal.
I purchased the 2 part door seal for the older airplanes. The problem is that
the seal came without instructions. The shop manual also is mum on any suggestions
for seal replacement.
Portions of the seal material that I removed were glued to the inside edge of the
door while other areas had a ninety degree bend in the seal so that it was
attached to both the inner edge and the outer flange. I need suggestions on properly
installing the new seal. I also could use suggestions about the area
around the hinges.
Thanks for your help.
Chuck McFarlin
Sarasota, FL
N119W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stewart Cochran" <stewbc(at)goquest.com> |
Hello Chuck,
If you receive information on the seal, perhaps you could share with the
group as that is valuable data. Thanks Stew Cochran N2032D C-35
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck McFarlin" <chmcfarlin(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Beech-List: Door seal
>
> Hi,
> I have a nice, old "D" model. The main cabin door had accumulated 50
years of old glue and seal material. I removed the door and removed the old
paint and glue off the interior side of the door. The door has been properly
repainted and I am now ready to install the new seal.
>
> I purchased the 2 part door seal for the older airplanes. The problem is
that the seal came without instructions. The shop manual also is mum on any
suggestions for seal replacement.
>
> Portions of the seal material that I removed were glued to the inside edge
of the door while other areas had a ninety degree bend in the seal so that
it was attached to both the inner edge and the outer flange. I need
suggestions on properly installing the new seal. I also could use
suggestions about the area around the hinges.
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Chuck McFarlin
> Sarasota, FL
> N119W
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Scott <winginit(at)jps.net> |
Hi Chuck,
I replaced the door seal on my "straight 35" last year and can't remember if it
was two pieces but I think not. I've been told that the seal should be kept
intact..don't cut out for the door strike or compromise the fact that it is a
little "closed circuit inner tube". The small amount of air inside helps to make
it fit tight.
Pete Scott ss1221
Chuck McFarlin wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I have a nice, old "D" model. The main cabin door had accumulated 50 years of
old glue and seal material. I removed the door and removed the old paint and
glue off the interior side of the door. The door has been properly repainted
and I am now ready to install the new seal.
>
> I purchased the 2 part door seal for the older airplanes. The problem is that
the seal came without instructions. The shop manual also is mum on any suggestions
for seal replacement.
>
> Portions of the seal material that I removed were glued to the inside edge of
the door while other areas had a ninety degree bend in the seal so that it was
attached to both the inner edge and the outer flange. I need suggestions on
properly installing the new seal. I also could use suggestions about the area
around the hinges.
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Chuck McFarlin
> Sarasota, FL
> N119W
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Christensen" <bchriste(at)wecon.com> |
| Subject: | Flap Actuator (BE-35) |
Hi all . . .
We are in need of a (left) Flap Actuator (jack-screw) for a 1947
"Straight 35" (ser# D-1 thru D-838).
If you have one you would like to sell, or know where we might find one,
please let me know!
Thanks,
Bob Christensen (N3136V)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
Please see the attached zip file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBINFLY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | E225-8 gets 260 hp |
Finally, Jerry received FAA approval on his stc
Does anyone have any field experience?
Robin Hou
54 E35
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: E225-8 gets 260 hp |
| From: | Shelby Smith <rvaitor(at)comcast.net> |
I'm curious about this. What does this mean in terms of speed/speed
restriction on some of these planes? Is this retrofitting the 470 Cylinders?
--
Shelby Smith
Ride with me into Meigs Field Chicago
Click Here - http://tinyurl.com/8pgm
68 B-23 N4004T serial #1110 located @
The EAA Complex / Smyrna TN
> From: ROBINFLY(at)aol.com
> Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:44:25 -0400 (EDT)
> To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Beech-List: E225-8 gets 260 hp
>
>
> Finally, Jerry received FAA approval on his HREF="http://www.aviation-research.com/stc.html">stc
>
> Does anyone have any field experience?
>
> Robin Hou
> 54 E35
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A J DeMarzo" <aerome(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: E225-8 gets 260 hp |
Sounds like a God-send, although ARS doesn't have the nicest of reputations
when it comes to customer service issues. I wonder if it is priced as what
the mod is worth or "whatever the market will bear"? Time will tell.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ROBINFLY(at)aol.com>
Subject: Beech-List: E225-8 gets 260 hp
>
> Finally, Jerry received FAA approval on his stc
>
> Does anyone have any field experience?
>
> Robin Hou
> 54 E35
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: E225-8 gets 260 hp |
Shelby,
There was article in the World Beechcraft Society magazine (May/June 2003
issue, pg. 37) announcing the issue of the STC to allow IO-470-N cylinders
on an E225-8 case. I don't know if it is also available for the E185-11
case, but probably not. Other changes to the plane are baffling and
exhaust, louvered cheek cowl panels, and some firewall work.
I don't know if you can still use an autogas STC or not.
Aviation Research
Sandy River Airport
42313 SE Oral Hull Rd
Sandy, Oregon 97055
503-668-4542
503-668-8359 fax
There is no mention in the article about new operating limitations, so I
conclude that you will still be limited by the current POH. However, with
more oomph you will take off quicker, climb quicker, and fly closer to those
limits with roughly 35 more horsepower available.
If you have a 35-B35, then the speed restriction AD still applies. There's
no provision in the current AD that says "If you have this STC, then you are
excused."
Since I have an E225-8 powered plane, I thought long and hard about this and
have decided ... to keep my engine the way it is. My reasons:
A) The resulting engine will be an abomination, er, hybrid, and practically
no mechanic on earth will know how to work on it without screwing something
up.
B) Selling such a hybrid (when the time comes) is always more difficult.
Value may or may not take a hit. Too soon for the market to show me what
the value of such a modified plane is.
C) The faster speeds will result in faster fuel burn, so the 50 gallons (I
have a 10-gal aux. tank) will probably not be enough anymore. I'm used to
seeing 9-10 gph, and a new beefier engine will crank that up to (probably)
12-13. That reduces my VFR range from
(50 gals / 10 gph, - 30 min reserve = ) 4:30:00 down to
(50 gals / 13 gph, - 30 min reserve = ) 3:20:00.
IFR ranges will be even less.
So I'd have to cough up a few grand more for tip tanks.
D) Aviation Research Inc. has been the subject of "controversy" among
several unhappy customers with other products they sell, so at this time it
may be a bit of a gamble to turn over my priceless gem to them and expect an
even more priceless gem to come back out. On time and within budget. If I
*really* wanted to do this, then I would probably wait a couple of years and
see how the first few customers work out.
BOTTOM LINE:
It will be easier in the long run to sell my plane, add the cost of the
upgrade, and buy a newer plane like a J or K35 that already has the IO-470
engine in it. And I like my plane too much to want to get rid of it.
Ron Davis
1954 E35 Bonanza, and happy with it the way it is (mostly)
Shelby Smith wrote:
>
> I'm curious about this. What does this mean in terms of speed/speed
> restriction on some of these planes? Is this retrofitting the 470 Cylinders?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: E225-8 gets 260 hp |
In a message dated 7/20/03 11:13:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
radavis2522(at)netzero.net writes:
> C) The faster speeds will result in faster fuel burn, so the 50 gallons (I
> have a 10-gal aux. tank) will probably not be enough anymore. I'm used to
> seeing 9-10 gph, and a new beefier engine will crank that up to (probably)
> 12-13. That reduces my VFR range from
> (50 gals / 10 gph, - 30 min reserve = ) 4:30:00 down to
> (50 gals / 13 gph, - 30 min reserve = ) 3:20:00.
> IFR ranges will be even less.
> So I'd have to cough up a few grand more for tip tanks.
>
Good Afternoon Ron,
I like your comments until you get to the place where you feel you will have
a higher burn. It is my considered opinion that your burn will remain the
same or decrease slightly as long as you fly the airplane at the same indicated
airspeeds that you flew before the conversion. The high compression ratios and
the ability to get adequate cruise power at higher altitudes will allow you
to get higher cruise speeds on the same or less fuel burn.
The aircraft will have a slightly higher burn during climb, but on flights
that utilize the full fuel load, the overall burn should be less.
I have no knowledge as to how the economics of the situation will turn out,
but I think it is great that there is now another source of cylinders that can
be used on the E-series engine.
As you know, I think the nicest flying Bonanzas ever built were the first
1500.
However, putting more horsepower in them and trying to turn that higher
horsepower into anything other than climb is, in my opinion, a big mistake.
The only reason that I would put a newer, more modern, engine into those old
airframes would be to get the advantages inherent in parts availability
provided when an engine, or one of it's components, is still in production.
If you want to get the lowest overall cost of operation, I still recommend
that you buy an H35 or later airplane. If you love the early airplanes, as do
I, for what they are, then we should be happy that somebody is providing
options that may allow us to continue to keep those wonderful machines in the air.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
PS In any case, I think you should pop for those tip tanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBINFLY(at)aol.com |
I found this F-35 "in-flight break-up" accident in VFR condition. What might
be the cause? I have an "E" and causes of early Bo break-up always
interested me for obvious reason. Robin Hou, San Marino, CA.
NYC03FA148 This is the link to NTSB's preliminary information.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "carmine pecoraro" <aeroauto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F-35 accident |
It appears from the report that the tail failed first and the resulting nose
over would fail the wings in downward direction.
cheers carmine pecoraro
>From: ROBINFLY(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Beech-List: F-35 accident
>Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:04:32 EDT
>
>
>I found this F-35 "in-flight break-up" accident in VFR condition. What
>might
>be the cause? I have an "E" and causes of early Bo break-up always
>interested me for obvious reason. Robin Hou, San Marino, CA.
> HREF="http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030805X01268&key=1">NYC03FA148
>This is the link to NTSB's preliminary information.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F-35 accident |
Robin,
In-flight breakups are always scary. Occupants don't survive, and the
public *always* attributes the cause to the vee tail, regardless of what
actually happened.
Too soon to tell, but a believable scenario is this:
Pilot reports airport in sight (Middlesboro, KY, 1A6). He is 8 miles away
and at 5,500 ft. At 160 mph, that's about 5 minutes away. Elevation is
1154 ft, so the traffic pattern is probably 1254 ft.
The pilot begins descending, but ends up at 4,400 ft. only 2 miles away from
the airport, or about 3,000 ft. too high.
It is quite possible that the pilot (with the throttle still firewalled)
simply pointed the nose downward to lose the remaining altitude. The
Bonanza will pick up a LOT of speed that way and you're past redline before
you know it. Whoops! Yank back on that wheel so slow her down again, and
... you've just traded in your wings for your own personal set of wings and
bonus harp. It's been nice knowing you.
When I need to dump a bunch of altitude, I use a forward slip. My plane
(1954 E35) will drop like a stone without picking up deadly speed. 2,000
fpm is possible (but tiring) without exceeding 165 kts. But I don't think
I'd ever try to lose 3,000 ft in two miles.
Ron Davis
Newport Beach, CA
ROBINFLY(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I found this F-35 "in-flight break-up" accident in VFR condition. What might
> be the cause? I have an "E" and causes of early Bo break-up always
> interested me for obvious reason. Robin Hou, San Marino, CA.
> NYC03FA148 This is the link to NTSB's preliminary information.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: F-35 accident |
In a message dated 8/12/03 6:34:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
radavis2522(at)netzero.net writes:
> Too soon to tell, but a believable scenario is this:
>
> Pilot reports airport in sight (Middlesboro, KY, 1A6). He is 8 miles away
> and at 5,500 ft. At 160 mph, that's about 5 minutes away. Elevation is
> 1154 ft, so the traffic pattern is probably 1254 ft
>
How about maybe 2154?
Good Evening Ron,
Nice to hear from you. It's been a while.
I am afraid I will have to disagree somewhat with your scenario. The weakest
Bonanzas ever built were the very early straight 35s.
Back when they started shedding wings, Beech borrowed an autopilot from the
Navy which was designed to fly a drone. They installed it in one of the early
airframes. I think it was D-5, but I am not sure of the exact number.
The Bonanza was flown by a pilot sitting in a Twin Beech using the drone
controls. They made a series of ever increasing high "G" pullouts. After each
test the airframe was inspected. Even at maximum gross weight, the airplane
easily withstood 4.4 Gs, the load required for Utility category. At the max
gross that airplane was designed for, and certificated in, the Normal category
only required that it be able to withstand a G loading of 3.8.
The tests were continued until such time as the structure showed some
evidence of deformation or permanent set in the structure. That occurred at 5.5
Gs.
The A35 was beefed up considerably and it was certificated in the normal
category at full gross weight. As the airplanes continued to shed wings, Beech
kept making them stronger and stronger.
They envisioned a scenario such as that you described.
Rumor has it that by the time the H35 was built, the wings could easily
withstand a full eight Gs.
Trouble was, it wasn't the high speed pull out that was peeling off the
wings.
The most likely scenario is that the pilot got into a high G situation and
then, either let go of the stick or, possibly, even pushed it forward to unload
the wing. When that happens, the tail is overloaded. It comes off, the
airplane tumbles end over end and even the eight G wing will break.
While I certainly agree that the airplane should always be flown inside the
envelope for which it was designed, I don't think anyone has ever pulled a wing
off a conforming Bonanza, or any of it's derivatives, by just pulling back on
the stick. It is much more likely that the airplane has been tumbled when
some poor aviator suddenly realized he was pulling a lot of Gs and he/she tried
to unload it too quickly.
My vote for a good way to lose altitude fast would be to slow down, drop the
gear and let her drop.
However, there is nothing wrong with using the slip!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gstrong(at)att.net> |
While we assume everyone has complied the various ADs and keep their
ruddervators balanced and well maintained (absolutely no slop in the
bearings), we know that isn't always the case. The buckling of the skin
makes me wonder if we've now experienced another ruddervator problem.
In reading last month's ABS magazine, I think we're up to 3 ruddervator
accidents with what appears to be balaced ruddervators prior to the
accident.
At Oshkosh, I asked the ABS tech person if there were any reports of
ruddervator problems on 1970s V35Bs. He said he wasn't aware of any and
that the design had changed significantly in terms of control pressure,
pushrod design, etc. I then asked about the 1960s and he replied that
it appears virtually all of the aircraft that have had the problem have
been 1950s or before. My main reason for asking the questions was #1 -
to see if he know what had happened to the 3 aircraft that are still
being investigated, and #2 - to find out if I should be concerned at all
about my 1979 V35B. Lastly, when I needed to get my ruddervators
re-skinned last winter I asked a couple of control rebuild shops a
similar question, and they also replied the 1950s versions are more
susceptable. In all this however, it was emphasized with appropriate
maintenance the aircraft is not to be worried about.
How does this explanation sound to everyone on the list? Have the later
V35Bs not had problems? Are they that much different in design? Any
more knowledge on the 3 the ABS magazine mentioned?
Thanks!
Gary S.
1979 V35B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: F-35 accident |
In a message dated 8/12/03 11:44:10 PM Central Daylight Time, gstrong(at)att.net
writes:
> How does this explanation sound to everyone on the list? Have the later
> V35Bs not had problems? Are they that much different in design? Any
> more knowledge on the 3 the ABS magazine mentioned?
Good Morning Gary,
If you spoke to either Dick Pederson or Neil Pobanz, you were discussing this
problem with one of the two guys in the world who know the most about this
problem.
Anything I could add would be strictly my interpretation of what I have
learned from them.
The 1956 G35 was the last airplane that used the early style construction on
the ruddervators. The H35 (1957) has an additional transverse spar. It is
likely it also has other internal construction changes about which I know
absolutely nothing!
I am not aware of any 1957, or later, airplane that has had any tail surface
divergence problems.
Incidentally, there is some evidence that we should not be calling it a
flutter problem. The current buzz word is that we have a problem with control
surface divergence.
The significance of that change in terminology escapes me, but it must mean
something important to the engineers.
I don't know if you have flown the early Bonanzas, but if you have, I think
you will agree that they are by far, the nicest, most pleasant flying
airplanes, of the marque.
When the H35 came out, I was extremely disappointed by the airplane. It flew
heavily and sluggishly in comparison to the G35 and earlier versions. It
wasn't until Beech installed the IO-520 in the S35 that the airplane once again
became a sprightly performer. Even though that additional power allowed it to,
once again, be a good performing airplane, it was, and is still, a heavier,
less responsive airplane than the early versions.
I don't know what all they changed on the H35, but I think skin thickness'
were increased throughout the airframe. It is a much stiffer and heavier
structure.
I am not knowledgeable concerning all of the changes, but I doubt very much
if your V35B has any SIGNIFICANT structural changes from the H35.
I have never heard of any airframe after the H35 encountering any control
divergence difficulty. There have been incidences of divergence in airplanes as
late as the last of the early style tail structure. Several G35s have
encountered it and a couple have resulted in fatalities.
There is some evidence that the airplanes were not in a conforming condition,
were being flown outside the limits, or both.
The jury has not yet spoken.
I have a slightly older V35B than do you. Mine is a 1978, D-10173. I am not
worried about it at this time, but I do check the bearings in the hinges and
control rods carefully. As these airframes age, it is certainly possible that
something may surface which is not now contemplated, but I think any problem
that does occur will be in an airplane that has had less than sterling
maintenance.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gstrong(at)att.net> |
Bob & Dennis & Group
Thanks for all the EXTREMELY helpful information. Bob, you helped me
immensely and I used your info to look through my "Those Incomparable
Bonanzas" book. Not that I was that concerned (since I had heard from
the multiple sources of the 60s and up aircraft having no issues), but
it always helps to have someone provide the logic behind the reason for
no divergence issues. Dennis, I'll take your advice and look up the
website this evening.
The Bonanza book mentioned a number of strengthing items done in the
1957 H-model - wings, ruddervator, fuselage, etc. Now that I know what
I'm looking for I'll get out my airframe maintenance/drawings book and
see if I can spot the changes. If I find out more I'll definitely copy
the list.
I completely agree on the maintenance. It always baffles me how someone
can let something as important to their safety as their aircraft become
so neglected. At Oshkosh I looked at about every Bonanza, and while the
vast majority were in great shape, some were of a condition that showed
severe neglect.
One more thing - do either of you (or anyone else) have a 2 1/4 turn and
bank indicator OR turn coordinator? Mine came with a 2 1/4" turn and
bank indicator that says 1 minute turns. I want to go to a 2 minute
turn (old dogs have a hard time learning new tricks, and a 1 minute turn
is far too much bank angle!) and wondered how well the units performed.
Thanks a million!
Gary S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: F-35 accident |
In a message dated 8/13/03 10:25:29 PM Central Daylight Time, gstrong(at)att.net
writes:
> One more thing - do either of you (or anyone else) have a 2 1/4 turn and
> bank indicator OR turn coordinator? Mine came with a 2 1/4" turn and
> bank indicator that says 1 minute turns.
Good Morning Gary,
I have used a two and one quarter inch sized turn and bank for the last
twelve years. The failure rate has been quite high. My instrument guru tells
me
that the only good ones built that size are the ones built for the military.
They are around five thousand bucks apiece.
On top of that, I have noted that I am not including it in my scan as much as
I formerly did. I am not sure how long my last one had been failed before I
picked up that it had gone belly up.
I was giving one of my sons an instrument competency check in my airplane.
When I "failed" his attitude and heading gyros so as to make him shoot a
partial panel non precision approach, he asked if I had failed the T&B as well.
It
wasn't until then that either he or I had noted that it wasn't working!
In addition to it being a small sized instrument, I had placed it on the
center instrument panel in a major panel rebuild conducted in 1991.
I have decided that it should be returned to it's place of honor directly to
the left of my HSI and that I need to go back to the old way of checking every
turn to see whether or not it is at standard rate. I don't mean to imply
that every turn must be made at standard rate, just that I want something that
will force me to look at that needle every time I make a turn!
I am strongly of the belief that any back up should be something that is used
all the time.
If it should fail, it is imperative that we pick up on that failure
immediately. That is my gripe with standby attitude indicators. They are rarely
used
in normal everyday flying. I suppose that, if they are installed side by side
in the panel, a failure of one will be noted, but most of the ones I have
seen installed are NOT so placed. The ones we had in the airplanes I flew my
former life were in the center instrument panel. That's further away from the
primary flight panel than is the radio stack in my Bonanza!
While I am on this soap box, may I strongly recommend that you use a real
Turn And Bank, (preferably a full sized one) not one of those abominable Turn
Coordinators. I have written many long and boring diatribes as to why. I won't
repeat it now, but will expand if anyone desires to hear more.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F-35 accident |
Hello Bob:
The original T & B in my Straight 35 is TU (variation of "belly up") and
am trying to decide what to replace it with. I don't know the difference
between a T & B and a TC. If you'll write about the difference and why one
is preferred, I'll gratefully read it.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Straight 35, Las Vegas, NV
> may I strongly recommend that you use a real
> Turn And Bank, (preferably a full sized one) not one of those abominable
Turn
> Coordinators. I have written many long and boring diatribes as to why. I
won't
> repeat it now, but will expand if anyone desires to hear more.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert J. Mayer" <rjmayer(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F-35 accident |
> In addition to it being a small sized instrument, I had placed it on the
> While I am on this soap box, may I strongly recommend that you use a real
> Turn And Bank, (preferably a full sized one) not one of those abominable
Turn
> Coordinators. I have written many long and boring diatribes as to why. I
won't
> repeat it now, but will expand if anyone desires to hear more.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
Old Bob:
If you don't mind, I for one would like to hear your diatribe on the virtues
of a "real Turn & Bank" as opposed to one of those "abominable Turn
Coordinators". I don't know about the others on the list, but I don't find
your comments boring by any stretch of the imagination! Your knowledgeable
"diatribes" are always welcome by this lister! Keep up the 'good work'
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Query about ruddervators (and what to do about them) |
| From: | "Marcos R. Della" <mdella(at)cstone.com> |
Speaking of older Bonanzas and ruddervators, I have a few questions. I'm not sure
if this is a topic for this list, but here it goes...
I have a C-35 (D3865) with an E225 that has a heavy slip to the right. At cruise,
I have to use basically both feet to step on the left rudder to keep the ball
centered. On takeoff and climb or when travelling under around 100 kts, it
works pretty normally and I only see this need at around 130kts and higher.
Since I'm new to the Bonanza game, I don't have the experiance to go looking for
the problem. Pouring through the shop manuals and looking at the differential,
I can't determine (without the centering guide mentioned in the shop manual)
if the thing is set up correctly. The local shop that does the annual doesn't
have experiance in this particular area and so I'm looking for some advice
on what the problem might be (for me to diagnose further) as well as any recommendations
on someone with experiance in this area in the Monterey, CA area (or
something in a 150mi radius :-)
I must say, its rather annoying flying with both feet on the rudder. If I just
fly without this correction, I lose around 6-8 kts of airspeed. I have other
things that I need to start looking at (I just aquired this aircraft and now
am trying to do the complete teardown/inspection/rebuild as best as I can) and
also am looking for advice on resource areas (documentation, web sites, etc).
If all the pointers are all over the place, I'll try and collect them all on a
single site. Since I'm one of the many unemployed website builders out there,
I suppose this can be my next "honey do" project :-)
Marcos Della (mdella(at)cstone.com)
Bonaza C35 (D3865) N607D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: T&B Was: F-35 accident |
In a message dated 8/14/03 11:22:00 AM Central Daylight Time,
rjmayer(at)optonline.net writes:
> If you don't mind, I for one would like to hear your diatribe on the
> virtues
> of a "real Turn &Bank" as opposed to one of those "abominable Turn
> Coordinators".
>
>
Good Afternoon Rob,
Thanks for your interest!
This will be so long that I will break it up into two messages.
I went back through some of my records and found a few things that I have
written on the T&B versus the TC.
I haven't read this stuff recently and I haven't put it in any particular
order, but if you care to spend the time to read it, maybe you will come up=20with
questions you would like answered.
If that is the case, I would be happy to attempt some answers.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Subj: Re: Was Personal Minimums, now a long and boring discussion of T&Bs and
stuff
Date: 4/28/00 10:44:32 PM Central Daylight Time
From: jtsmall(at)onramp.net (John Small)
Bob, I have just finished re-reading this msg and it still glows as a beacon
in
the dark. In all seriousness, why not submit it intact to IFR Magazine for
consideration? I really think it is that good and on the level, if not in
excess, of what they regularly publish. That along with Aviation Consumer
are
the two magazines I read cover to cover the moment they hit my mail box!=20=A0
Of
course there are a lot more aviation publications cluttering up my house.
-jts
Beech P35 (N519BD)
Arlington Municipal (GKY)
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u191389&a1403055
Good Morning All,
I returned last night to find some four hundred messages on my E-mail, most
of them in some way related to the tragic crash in Newark.
My quick scan noted several references to back up instrumentation and at
least one request asking how others have dealt with that quest.
A couple of folks noted my personal preference for a Turn and Bank instrument
over the now almost universally used Turn Coordinator instrument.
I do have comments considering what has been done to provide redundancy but=20I
want to discuss my reasons for choosing the T&B first.
To make sure we are all on the same track, the Turn Coordinator is a
development of the T&B.=A0 The first units were used as a stabilization device
for an autopilot developed by one of the major corporations. I believe it
was ITT, but someone else may have better information.
That autopilot used a standard T&B mounted within the magic box of the
autopilot, not on the instrument panel. I believe it was mounted at an
angle
of about thirty-five or forty degrees. By mounting the control box in the
same plane as the level position of the aircraft, the T&B ended up in the
"canted" or "inclined" attitude.
One of the tenants of mounting the standard T&B in the days when those were=20a
primary instrument, was that it must be mounted so that the face of the
instrument was in a vertical plane parallel to the vertical axis of the
aircraft. This was necessary to eliminate, or at least minimize, the effect
of roll on the instrument. The T&B was designed to tell the operator that
the aircraft was turning, nothing else.
By mounting the instrument with the front end (the part toward the nose of
the aircraft) above the back or face that we read, it became sensitive to
roll as well as turn. I understand that it has been tried at many different
angles. I am not sure what is currently used, but believe it to be somewhat
less than forty-five degrees. Thirty-five or so is what comes to mind.
Someone felt that there might be an advantage to presenting information to
the pilot in a similar manner and the Turn Coordinator was born.
Whether the airplane is rolled or yawed, the Turn Coordinator indicates
something!
Seems like a good idea doesn't it? If a wing drops (roll) a turn is likely
to follow. The canted or inclined gyro would give an indication to the
autopilot or the operator to take action to stop the impending turn. Most
of
the early GA autopilots would use aileron for that purpose and viola, we had
the early wing levelers!
One of the first things that bothered me about the early Turn Coordinators
was the following effect. If a takeoff was initiated immediately following
a
turn onto the runway, the Turn Coordinator would show a wing down indication
even though the wheels were solidly on the ground and holding the aircraft in
a very stable horizontally level position. A phone call to the manufacturer
elicited the information that the unit was operating as it was supposed to
do. In order to make the turn coordinator modification to the standard T&B
usable, it was necessary to heavily dampen the response or it would wiggle
too much to be usable.
Over the years, different manufacturers have used different amounts of
dampening, but the Turn Coordinators still do not give as rapid a response to
a yawing moment as do the T&Bs.
The next thing that bothered me about the Turn Coordinator was the
presentation which was almost identical to that of the artificial horizon.=20=A0
I
found that students often tried to make pitch corrections while watching the
instrument for verification of their input.
This was not as big a problem for beginning instrument pilots as it was for
very experienced ones who would take action by reflex borne from long
experience rather than thought on what needed to be done!
After several years of using Turn Coordinators for primary training and for
recurrent checks and training, I came to the conclusion that students who
used the older T&B for training and in normal flight, had a lot less
difficulty with partial panel on recurrent competency checks than did those
who trained on and regularly used Turn Coordinators.
The T&B seems to take longer to learn to use, but gives better long term
results than the TC.
NO ONE has ever mistaken a T&B for an artificial horizon! That often happens
with a TC.
When the turn coordinator shows a "wing down" indication, there is no way to
tell if the wing is down or a yaw has developed.
If the nose is not allowed to turn, the airplane will not spin in, spiral
dive or grave yard spiral into terra firmae!
Don't let it turn and, if the airplane is in trim, nothing drastic is likely
to occur.
(As an aside, the argument could be made that if the wings are held level,
nothing much is likely to happen either. Think about the 747-400 that came
within 70 feet of scattering bodies and aluminum over San Francisco. He
held
his wings level, but because there was no rudder input, the spoilers were
extended, the airplane was descending and the heading changed enough to take
the aircraft off the track which was designed to take it between the hills.=20=A0
If that pilot had not allowed the airplane to turn, it would have been a non
event whether the wings were level or not!)
I can't imagine any instrument being more reliable than the standard T&B,
though I have had them fail.
It must be noted that I learned to fly instruments in the days when the use
of an artificial horizon and directional gyro was not allowed on the flight
test.
That resulted in most IFR training airplanes not being equipped with either
of those attitude instruments.
Most small GA airplanes which were regularly flown IFR had either a DG or one
of the stabilized compasses added to make rolling out on a heading easier.=20=A0
Other than that, we tended to use rate flying as opposed to the current
method of attitude flying.
The military services during WWII equipped every airplane that was intended
for IFR flight with a "full panel" and the airlines had used such a panel
since well before the war.
Shortly after WWII, the military officially started to train their primary
students in the attitude method of flight and somewhere in the late fifties
or early sixties the FAA followed suite.
I don't know whether the old way or the new way is the best, but I do know
that you can turn out an adequate instrument pilot using the attitude method
in less time and therefore at lower cost than you can using the rate method.
I also know that instrument pilots who flew a couple of years and a few
hundred hours on the T&B, rate based panel before the days when the
government mandated the use of a full panel never have any trouble flying
partial panel.
The same cannot be said even for very experienced pilots who have only flown
partial panel during training and checking.
The most difficult thing is to identify the failure of the artificial
horizon. It is also very difficult to fly partial panel when the failed
attitude instrument is leaning over where it doesn't belong! Pasties or
other cover-up devices are almost mandatory.
I would imagine that my confidence in the T&B is at least partially
responsible for my hate of the TC, but I also feel that I gave it several
years to convince me otherwise.
As to what has been used in the past as back up devices, John Miller, who
will be 94 this month and still fly's his Bonanza IFR several hundred hours=20a
year, told me about a device which he carried in his old C model. He rigged
up a venturi on a board that was sized to fit in the pilot vent window.=20The
venturi was connected by a rubber hose to a standard vacuum T&B which he then
placed on the top of the instrument panel.
The first airplane on which I regularly flew Captain was the Convair 340.=20=A0
It
was an all electric airplane, no air system at all! Northeast had one on
which a wrench or some other tool had been left on the electrical compartment
and it shorted out the whole shebang. All of the emergency and battery
busses as well as normal things.
These guys were in a whole lot of hurt! Fortunately, they were on top in
the
late afternoon and had some time to think things out. They felt that they
knew their position fairly well and I will shorten this dissertation enough
to state that they let down through a four or five hundred foot overcast and
broke out over Long Island Sound. They recognized their position by
landmarks along the shore, flew to and landed at LaGuardia.=A0 It was by then
quite dark and no one knew they were on the ground until someone complained
of an unlit airplane taxiing on a taxiway!
That bothered me enough that I took a twenty-eight volt T&B, taped three nine
volt "B" batteries around it, equipped it with a switch and carried the thing
with me in my flight bag. I could place it on the glare shield with the
forward end setting on a coffee cup holder that Convair had conveniently
supplied and I had a comfortable method of flying the airplane! Worked like
a charm!
My first two Bonanzas had a directional gyro, but no horizon, That was the
most common configuration before the Feds required a full panel. Both
airplanes had come that way from the factory and were equipped with a vacuum
T&B as well. I added an electric T&B and felt that I had as much redundancy
as anyone could ever want!
My current airplane has only one airpowered instrument, the attitude
indicator. That supplies the information for my number one autopilot.=20=A0 My
number two autopilot is a turn coordinator that uses a canted gyro for
information.
I feel very comfortable that I have sufficient back up for my type of flying.
If I were to have a complete electrical failure along with a failure of the
pneumatic air system on takeoff, I would probably lose the airplane. But if
I were at altitude, I would get out one of my hand held GPS units and use it
to tell me if I was turning or not. Given reasonable time to acclimate,=20I
think it would be usable for going generally in one direction without losing
control, but I don't think trying to comply with ATC instructions would be in
my repertoire.
I have practiced keeping it right side up with just the panel mount GPS, but
I have not yet tried it with the handhelds. My handhelds do not update
anywhere near as well as my panel unit.
I do have a standby alternator that will come on the line automatically
following a failure of the primary one. Hopefully there will never be a
complete electrical failure, but it did happen to that Northeast Convair and
to one of our Musketeer instrument trainers many years ago.
As to my personal minima, I fly to the FARs. I enjoy single pilot IFR and I
like flying to low minima. Shooting an approach to minima is fun and if=20the
approach is completed, it can be very satisfying. If a miss is required,
that too can be a satisfying experience if you have plenty of fuel and places
to go. Always the opportunity for a new experience. I have found that non
completed trips often allow me to meet a lot of interesting folks at out of
the way places.
As has been mentioned by many others, single pilot IFR is a lot different
than multiple crew operations. Crew Resource Management is a neat catch
phrase. What it amounts to for the single pilot is organization to see that
one does not try to do too much.
I find that in my current aircraft, I have so many options that it is easy to
divide my attention to the point that I don't do a good job of flying the
airplane. I must decide what functions I really need and let the others=20go
by the board.
One thing at a time for me.
Younger folks might be able to do more, but I think simple tasks are all I
want to do and not too many of those. If I am shooting a GPS approach, I
may
set up the VHF Nav for something else in the area, but I don't try to cross
check unless I have a suspicion that something may not be going well and then
it would likely lead me to initiate a miss to sort things out rather than
trying to figure out what was going on that caused the discrepancy.
I do have dual glide slopes which I tune for all low ILS approaches. They
are mounted side by side and I find them easy to cross check.
Remember that Personal Minima are just that! They are what works and feels
comfortable for you
Well, I guess that is about all the space I am allowed for this week!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Good Morning John,
I wrote the following answer to your question. After I finished,
I wondered if it might be of interest to a few of the others on the
Bonanza list. If you feel that it would, would you mind sending
the question that you sent me and this answer to the list?
Thanks,
Old Bob
In a message dated 4/28/00 11:04:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
jtsmall(at)onramp.net writes:
<< Do you carry that now ... or asked another way, what backup
power system do you use? Actually I recall you have a standby
alternator and that would be good providing you can still the power
to the avionics bus after the main alternator or other component
failed. >>
Good Morning John,
Very kind of you to archive those old thoughts. Some of them
still sound good, even to me!
I haven't carried the battery pack since the Convair days. I did
carry it with me in my Bonanza in those days, but somewhere
I just quit. Don't know why.
I suppose that I have become complacent. I have had pneumatic
pumps fail, both pressure and vacuum, though that has usually
been in airplanes which I did not personally maintain. I have had
several alternators fail as well. Along the way I have had a few
cases of instrument failure.
The most difficult to handle were the horizon failures. Even
after the failure is determined, it is very difficult to tell your
brain to disregard that information. As soon as your mind
starts to think of something else, your subconscious habits
take over and input a correction to that horizon that has become
lazy. I now carry a rubber stick-on cover to use in the event of
a horizon failure. Once it is covered up, I have no problem
maintaining proper attitude via the remaining instrumentation.
I never incurred a failure affecting my instrumentation in as
critical a time as did Itzahk. Who knows what any of us
might have done.
I have always noted my pneumatic system and electrical failures
long before they became a problem. That was true before the
current warning devices became available. I now have a nice big
red light that will let me know the alternator has failed, but my
only indication of pneumatic failure is the action of the horizon or
the indication on the pressure gauge. I think a Gizmo or similar
device would be a good idea.
My intention is to go all electric. Eliminate the pressure pump
entirely. The big hold up is my horizon. It provides the information
for my primary roll autopilot. The manufacturer originally had an
electric one available, but the failure rate was so high, they quit
making it.
Once I solve that problem, I will eliminate the air!
My standby alternator works great. It is a very simple installation.=20=A0
It is hooked up to the basic electrical system and is running all of
the time. No clutches, relays or anything else mechanical to fail.
Anytime the electrical system voltage falls below 26 volts, the
standby alternator starts to put out power. It will do that if the only
problem is that the primary alternator is overloaded and can't keep
up. A yellow light comes on to warn me that the standby alternator
is in use, but no action is required on my part other than to monitor
the load when I have time. The standby alternator is capable of
putting out 30 or 35 amps for a short period of time. If it had a
cooling blast tube run to it, that power could probably be carried
for quite a while. However that isn't necessary. It is a simple job
to reduce the loads to keep them within the output rating of the
alternator without the additional cooling and I don't want to waste
all of that nice cooling air during normal operations.
I installed a load meter and appropriate switching capability so
that I can directly monitor the electrical system, but Bill Bainbridge
has since gotten a device approved which will flash the yellow light
anytime the alternator is putting out more than twenty amps. The
operator can then reduce load until the light stops flashing.
I find that my normal night time running load with everything going,
including the pitot heat, is just at, or a little over, 20 amps. If I
turn off either the rotating beacon or the strobes, the load goes
below twenty amps.
If one has the twelve volt system, as do you, load management would
be a little more important, but you still have plenty of time to take
care of it before the little alternator would be in trouble. I can't imagine
how it could be made simpler or more reliable. It is a vast
improvement over the complicated load reduction device that Beech
used and I absolutely don't want something that has to have a clutch
or that takes any action on my part to become operative.
I don't think any standby device that takes a pilot action to be put
in operation is worth having. Redundancy is another matter. If I were
really enamored with a pneumatic system as a source of instrument
power, I would install dual pumps and set it up just like a light twin.
Both pumps would be operative at all times with a shuttle valve for
isolation. The only trouble is that those shuttle valves have been
known to fail when an engine was shut down.
I think air driven instruments are from the dark ages! I like open
cockpits, but I don't want one on my Bonanza.
I don't know how I will handle things if George gets his ignition system
approved. Provided it is priced within my capability, I would like to
have it. I don't know if my standby alternator system will satisfy the
FAA as providing adequate redundancy or not. Obviously, if you lose
all electrical while flying with the full electronic ignition, the engine
quits!
Reliability and redundancy of the electrical system becomes a very
important factor in the equation, but we do fly with one engine
don't we?
Decisions, decisions, all the time decisions!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Subj: Re: Standby Attitude Indicator=A0
Date: 2/17/02 9:54:16 AM Central Standard Time
From: Bobs V35B
In a message dated 2/17/02 12:36:10 AM Central Standard Time,
ljames3(at)austin.rr.com writes:
> I could not
> get to a situation where there was a turn with the TC showing wings level.
>
Good Morning Larry,
You won't find a situation where the aircraft is in a
turn with the TC showing wings level unless the
aircraft is also rolling in the direction opposite to
the turn. In any case, it wouldn't last that way
for long!
The TC is NOT an attitude indicator.
It is a rate indicator. It will show the rate of roll
and/or the rate of turn.
Nothing more, nothing less.
It is relatively easy to demonstrate that it can
show "wings level" when the wings are not level.
All you have to do is place the aircraft in knife
edge flight.
When you have it stabilized, no rolling and no
turning, the indicator will show "wings level."
The instrument is nothing more than a standard
T&B gyro mounted so that it will sense both roll
and yaw. It can't tell which is happening and it
shows the same indication for both.
To my knowledge, the idea was first used by a
professor at the Illinois Institute of Technology
who built and certified an early wingleveler, or
single axis autopilot, shortly after WWII.
He used a standard T&B mounted so that the
nose was high. When it is rolled, it thinks it
is turning. When it yaws it is telling the truth.
Since most turns are preceded by a roll in the
direction of the desired turn, reading that roll
gives the autopilot an indication that a turn is
likely to commence very soon.
The "canted gyro" thus allowed for a faster
counter control input with a very low cost
sensor.
A very ingenious idea which was picked up
later by several of the wing leveler
manufacturers.
The difference between pilots and autopilots
is that we tend to think and analyze.
When our thinking mechanism is all messed
up with incorrect information, our analysis
sometimes is faulty and we input the wrong
corrective action.
The mechanical devices don't have that problem.
As you discovered with your investigation, if the
turn is stopped, the modern airplane will pretty
well take care of the rest.
As Cy Galley noted, many airplanes built to
designs developed in the twenties and thirties
will roll into a spin if aileron is used to pick up
a wing right at the point of stall. Therefore we
are all taught to use the rudder for directional
control when at that point and leave the ailerons
where they are.
Not required for modern designs, but it works
with them as well, so why not do it that way?
It is a similar situation with the TC and the T&B.=A0
If the function and capability of both are well
understood, a trained pilot can fly partial panel
with either.
If either the T&B or the TC are telling us that we
are turning, the appropriate way to stop that turn
is to utilize a coordinated input of aileron and
rudder to stop that turn.
Once again. the key thing here is to
STOP the TURN.
The problem comes when we humans are
confused.
Autopilots don't get confused. They may fail or
the aircraft may be outside the limits at which
the autopilot can exert adequate control, but
they don't get confused!
We humans do.
Since the one thing that is most likely to be
required to prevent disaster is to stop the turn,
it is my opinion that we need to present to the
aviator an indication that tells him/her that
the aircraft is turning.
The TC and the T&B will both do that.
So will a spinning directional indicator, a moving
map display and a multitude of other indications
that may or not be available.
If the pilot is able to discern that the aircraft is
in a turn, and if control input is effected in the
correct direction, we should be able to stop
the turn. A properly trimmed aircraft will regain
steady flight on it's own, if there is room to do
so and we can just keep it from turning.
So why do I keep promoting the T&B over the TC?
Because I feel that it is very difficult to resolve
the conflict between what our senses are telling
us and what the instruments are saying.
I also feel that it is much easier for us to accept
the fact that the airplane is turning than it is to
accept the fact that our senses are telling us
that "level" is somewhere other than where we
think it is.
Therefore, I want to concentrate on determining
whether or not the airplane is turning and stop
that turn at all costs using the best combination
of controls to do so.
I don't even want my mind to consider whether or
not the wings are level. If my mind wants to be
confused, I'll let it be confused, just so long as
the airplane is NOT turning.
The turn indicator presents nothing but turn
information.
That is what we need to know and react upon.
Keep It Simple!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Subj: Re: Back-Up Attitude Indicator=A0
Date: 2/12/02 11:38:52 PM Central Standard Time
From: Bobs V35B
In a message dated 2/12/02 11:12:44 PM Central Standard Time, lcg(at)inreach.com
writes:
> Hello Bob,
>
=A0=A0=A0 I know that you are not a fan of TC's and definitely prefer the simpler
turn indicator, but I forgot why. Could you please refresh my memory.=20=A0
Thanks,
A different Larry
Good Evening Different Larry,
The Turn Coordinator shows the same indication
for both a roll or a yaw. Therefore, it never tells
you for sure what is happening. Ergo, it is
always telling a lie.
If you are flying a steady knife edge, it will show
that the wings are level. Pure fabrication on
it's part.
It presents a picture that looks very similar to
an artificial horizon. That tends to make one
think of leveling the wings whereas the important
thing is to stop the turn.
If the aircraft does not turn, it will survive=A0=A0=A0 -----=A0=A0 period!
When we get confused and don't know quite
what is happening, it is very difficult to convince
ourselves that the sensations that we feel are
incorrect. That is why pilots so often input a
control that rolls the aircraft in the wrong direction.
Most of us don't have anywhere near as much
resistance to accepting that we are turning when
our senses tell us that we are not as we do in
accepting the fact that we have a wing down
when the aircraft is actually level.
With a turn needle, there is absolutely no way
to interpret it as anything other than a device
that tells us whether we are turning or not turning.
If we forget about the wings being level and just
accept that we must stop the turn whether the
wings are level or not, it is much easier to make
the proper correction.
The fact that we still think the wings are not level
doesn't make any difference at all.
If the airplane doesn't turn, we will survive!
I have absolutely no scientific research to back up
these thoughts, but the accident statistics do show
that aircraft upset accidents have become common
since the advent of the turn coordinator. There are
training complications involved, but I strongly feel
that placing the emphasis on turning instead of
placing the emphasis on wings level is the
primary point.
The T&B directs our thoughts toward the turn.
The Turn Coordinator tends to make us think
about the position of the wings. That is what
our minds find so difficult to accept when we
have lost our equilibrium.
The FAA now says that the first thing we
should do is to level the wings.
I think the first thing that we should think
about is to stop the turn.
If that includes leveling the wings, so much
the better, but if our mind tells us that the
wings are not level, but the aircraft is not
turning, we have already saved the day.
The T&B is relatively low cost.
It is the most reliable gyro instrument
that we have ever had.
It is light weight.
It is very easy to spot a failure, if it
wiggles, it is working!
That's about it!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 2/17/02 8:41:09 PM Central Standard Time,
mach25(at)swbell.net writes:
I remember asking if the TC ever gave the wrong
indication and I believe he said yes, that if you are in an inverted spin
the TC will tell you the wrong turn direction and the T&B will still give
you the right answer.
Good Morning Jeff,
Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, I am not sure
which, I have never knowingly been in an inverted spin.
There were a couple of cases where I was confused
and not sure what was happening, but the aircraft
were not equipped with either a T&B or TC and I
doubt if my mind was working well enough to observe
them had they been available!
Without a very good knowledge of the dynamics of an
inverted spin, I don't feel I am able to analyze the
situation and the response of a TC competently.
However, they are both based on the same sort of
gyro and should show something similar. The
major difference would be the relationship of the
axis of rotation of the gyro to the axis of rotation
of the aircraft. Since airplanes can spin, both right
side up and inverted in so many different attitudes,
or angles of "flatness," I think it might be hard to
predict what the response of either instrument might be.
As an aside, Bill Kershner, an acknowledged guru
of spins in GA airplanes has found out something
rather interesting.
He was asked about the position of the ball during
a spin. Tests showed rather scattered results. He
then mounted one inclinometer on the far right side
of the panel and one on the far left. The result of
spin tests in that configuration showed that the ball
of the instrument always went to the side on which
it was mounted regardless of the direction of the turn.
His tests were done in one of the aerobatic Cessna 150s.
I wonder if the answer to your question might not
vary with the aircraft in which the tests are conducted,
the center of gravity, the rotation axis of the airplane
and the position within the aircraft at which the
sensing instrument was mounted.
In any case, I would hazard a guess that there is
unlikely to be an indication on a TC in a different
direction than one on a T&B.
Remember, I am often wrong!
It all depends.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Weber, Barry [LFS]" <BWEBER1(at)lfsus.jnj.com> |
| Subject: | Query about ruddervators (and what to do about them) |
"I have a C-35 (D3865) with an E225 that has a heavy slip to the right."
Marcos,
I just went through the whole rigging process on my 35 and may be able to
help. At least I'm close to you in Livermore CA. I had my whole airplane
in pieces and just got it back flying about 2 months ago and needed to work
out some rigging anomalies myself. email me and we can trade contact
information.
I need a some help myself right now. Can anyone help me find the 6 rubber
mounting grommets for a Beech 215 Prop. Aero Propeller in Hemet recently
lost their inventory in a fire and Beech doesn't have any.
I restored a straight 35 s/n D-18 to it's original configuration when it was
ferried from Wichita to Burbank, 25 February 1947. Won the Vintage class
Lindy at EAA Oshkosh just weeks ago. You can see a few pictures of it at
this link http://www.eaa663.org/projectgallery.asp
Barry Weber
D-18
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: F-35 accident |
In a message dated 8/14/03 11:22:00 AM Central Daylight Time,
rjmayer(at)optonline.net writes:
> I for one would like to hear your diatribe on the virtues
> of a "real Turn &Bank" as opposed to one of those "abominable Turn
> Coordinators".
Good Afternoon Once Again,
Here is the second installment.
Incidentally, since the time when I originally wrote the earlier messages, I
have had the opportunity to try flying with just the Garmin 295 as a standby
instrument. I put a blanket over my head in such a manner that I could see
nothing on the panel. Only my 295 which is mounted on the control column.
My safety pilot put the airplane in several unusual attitudes and then told
me to open my eyes and recover.
We tried several configurations and found that it worked best for me when I
was looking at the "HSI" on one half the screen and had a map on the other
half.
It was nowhere near as comfortable as using a T&B and other rate instruments,
but it was doable. I think it would be easy to use the GPS to get down
through an overcast when you had a chance to set up before starting the descent.
I
don't know if I would be able to recover the aircraft if I was actually in a
grave yard spiral and had already lost my sense of orientation. For that, I
think I would need a T&B.
Here goes my most recent diatribe on T&Bs.
> Bob-
> I've missed out on the old discussion, so I've emailed you privately on
> this. Since a turn coordinator more or less shows the sum of roll rate and yaw
> rate, once the bank angle is established, it just shows yaw rate. Why=20the
> strong preference for a turn and bank? I've used both, the TC is "jumpier,"
> but I seem to adapt to either OK.
>
> Just curious,
> John
>
>
Good Evening John,
It has to do with the way our minds work. Just my thoughts and no science
to base it on at all.
I figure that when a pilot gets disoriented, it takes a major mental effort
to accept that his/her senses are all wrong and that some instrument is telling
the truth.
I believe that the sense that is the hardest to convince is the one that
tells us where up is and one of the easier ones to accept is whether or not=20we
are
turning.
Therefore, I think we should be emphasizing the idea that we should stop the
turn and not worry whether or not the wings are level. Even if our mind
tells us that we are in a horrendous bank, but the airplane is not turning,=20we
wil
l survive. Our mind can be right or wrong. The wings can be level or
banked. It doesn't make any difference at all.
If we don't turn, we will survive. Period!
Now, back to the instrument of choice for me.
The Turn Coordinator shows either yaw or roll. If both are occurring at=20the
same time, the results will be cumulative.
Sounds like a pretty good idea.
If the wings are level and the aircraft is in trim, when a roll develops it
is likely to be followed by a turn.
If you hook up an autopilot so that an anti-turning force is applied when the
first indication of a roll is noted, the TC becomes a very nice low cost
sensor for a low cost autopilot.
Still sounds like a good idea.
If it is good for an autopilot to have that early warning of an impending
turn, why not give that same warning to a human pilot?
Back to my theory. Autopilots never get confused. Pilots do.
If we aviators are comfortable with rate instrument flying and have good
situational awareness, partial panel is a piece of cake whether one is using a
TC
or a T&B.
The trouble comes when some poor sole named Kennedy, Carnahan or John Q.
Public has a mind that is telling him/her one thing while an instrument is telling
him/her something else.
Why can't we tell them to not worry about it! Regardless of the attitude
they are in, just stop the turn. So what if you are leaning way over to=20one
side or the other. That is not important. JUST STOP THE TURN!
Putting the TC in the position where the "wings" are level will stop the
turn, but don't you think there will be a very difficult mental block to accepting
that fact?
If we are using a turn needle, it has nothing about it that even suggests a
wing or whether or not the aircraft is level. All it does is tell us if=20the
airplane is yawing. If it isn't yawing, it isn't turning. I think that
indication is MUCH easier for a confused pilot to accept.
Go out someday in an aircraft equipped with a Turn Coordinator and do a nice
strong Knife Edge. Doesn't it seem rather strange to be flying that knife
edge and also be looking at the turn coordinator that is showing a "Wings Level"
indication?
Do the same maneuver in an airplane equipped with T&B.=A0 The T&B will be
sitting in the center for the same reason the TC was showing wings level.=20=A0
No
turns and no yaw in a properly flown knife edge. Isn't it a lot easier for even
we experienced aviators to accept that the T&B is doing what it should be
doing than it is to accept that the wings level indication of the TC is proper?
The TC is always compromised. There is no way to determine if it is showing
a roll or a yaw without using supporting information.
If a T&B needle is showing an indication, the aircraft is yawing. No yaw,
no turn. No turn, no graveyard spiral.
There is no doubt that I suffer somewhat from the primacy phenomenon. When
I received my instrument training, we were not allowed to use any attitude or
direction gyros either in training or on the flight test. The only
gyroscopic instrument allowed was the Turn Needle. It is a rate instrument as are
the
airspeed, altimeter and vertical speed.
When the canted gyro was first introduced, it was as a device to allow a low
cost wing leveler. Someone realized that if the canted gyro was tied to=20some
sort of an indication which could be presented to the pilot, the pilot would
be given the same advance warning of an impending turn as the canted gyro gave
to the wing leveler.
Sounded good to me!
When the first TC came on the market, I installed them in my trainers and
started to use them for all training purposes. After a few years, I noted that
the proficiency in partial panel of students who had been trained on, and
continued the use of TCs, was not as good as had been the case when we were=20all
using T&Bs.
Part of the problem, I feel, is because we no longer emphasize the use of
standard rate turns so that regardless whether one is using a TC or a T&B, it
does not tend to be in the normal scan. Any technique we quit using gets rusty.
Beyond that though, I think that there is always a bit of confusion in our
minds as to just what is happening with a TC. With the T&B, there is never any
doubt.
The example of the knife edged flight is one that I have used often. It=20is
amazing to see the look on the face of folks who have been flying with a TC
for years and have never seen such a demonstration.
There is nothing else on the panel that even looks remotely like a classic T&
B.=A0
So many folks confuse a TC with an attitude gyro that many have a notation
warning that it provides no pitch information.
Once again.
I think we should emphasize that one needs to stop the turn at all costs.
While leveling the wings will most likely stop the turn, it will require a
leap of faith and strong will to persuade us to go against what our senses are
telling us.
In my opinion, it is much easier to get that poor lost soul to accept the
fact that he/she just needs to stop that turn regardless of how it feels or=20where
the ball is located.
Any help?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "carmine pecoraro" <aeroauto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Query about ruddervators (and what to do about them) |
If the flaps and ailerons are rigged okay then you can correct your problem
by adjusting the trim tabs. The maint. manual and Norm Colvin's book
explains the procedure.
cheers carmine pecoraro
>From: "Marcos R. Della" <mdella(at)cstone.com>
>Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Beech-List: Query about ruddervators (and what to do about them)
>Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:01:23 -0700
>
>
>Speaking of older Bonanzas and ruddervators, I have a few questions. I'm
>not sure if this is a topic for this list, but here it goes...
>
>I have a C-35 (D3865) with an E225 that has a heavy slip to the right. At
>cruise, I have to use basically both feet to step on the left rudder to
>keep the ball centered. On takeoff and climb or when travelling under
>around 100 kts, it works pretty normally and I only see this need at around
>130kts and higher.
>
>Since I'm new to the Bonanza game, I don't have the experiance to go
>looking for the problem. Pouring through the shop manuals and looking at
>the differential, I can't determine (without the centering guide mentioned
>in the shop manual) if the thing is set up correctly. The local shop that
>does the annual doesn't have experiance in this particular area and so I'm
>looking for some advice on what the problem might be (for me to diagnose
>further) as well as any recommendations on someone with experiance in this
>area in the Monterey, CA area (or something in a 150mi radius :-)
>
>I must say, its rather annoying flying with both feet on the rudder. If I
>just fly without this correction, I lose around 6-8 kts of airspeed. I
>have other things that I need to start looking at (I just aquired this
>aircraft and now am trying to do the complete teardown/inspection/rebuild
>as best as I can) and also am looking for advice on resource areas
>(documentation, web sites, etc).
>
>If all the pointers are all over the place, I'll try and collect them all
>on a single site. Since I'm one of the many unemployed website builders
>out there, I suppose this can be my next "honey do" project :-)
>
>Marcos Della (mdella(at)cstone.com)
>Bonaza C35 (D3865) N607D
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Cook <adtouch(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Shadin Miniflo Fuel Flow Meter |
I have this C-35 project that was bought totally disassembled and am in
the process of getting the assembly done. Now for the question. Does
anyone know where I can find a copy of a 337 for the installation of a
Shadin Miniflo on a E series engine with a pressure carb? We have all
the parts but do not have a example to go by for the install. On this
application we have to use 2 fuel tranducers on the engine because of
excess fuel pumped back into the left main. I have searched the ABS CD
to no avail all the examples are of latter models mostly with IO-520's.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thom Cook
N59TC
C-35 D-2736
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shadin Miniflo Fuel Flow Meter |
In a message dated 8/14/03 8:51:55 PM Central Daylight Time,
adtouch(at)bellsouth.net writes:
> I have this C-35 project that was bought totally disassembled and am in
> the process of getting the assembly done. Now for the question. Does
> anyone know where I can find a copy of a 337 for the installation of a
> Shadin Miniflo on a E series engine with a pressure carb? We have all
> the parts but do not have a example to go by for the install. On this
> application we have to use 2 fuel tranducers on the engine because of
> excess fuel pumped back into the left main. I have searched the ABS CD
> to no avail all the examples are of latter models mostly with IO-520's.
> Any info would be greatly appreciated.
> Thom Cook
> N59TC
> C-35 D-2736
>
Good Evening Thom,
Have you tried the Shadin website?
Or if that doesn't work, you might give them a call!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Cook <adtouch(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shadin Miniflo Fuel Flow Meter |
Yes I have and they were not a lot of help.
Thom
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 8/14/03 8:51:55 PM Central Daylight Time,
>adtouch(at)bellsouth.net writes:
>
>
>
>>I have this C-35 project that was bought totally disassembled and am in
>>the process of getting the assembly done. Now for the question. Does
>>anyone know where I can find a copy of a 337 for the installation of a
>>Shadin Miniflo on a E series engine with a pressure carb? We have all
>>the parts but do not have a example to go by for the install. On this
>>application we have to use 2 fuel tranducers on the engine because of
>>excess fuel pumped back into the left main. I have searched the ABS CD
>>to no avail all the examples are of latter models mostly with IO-520's.
>>Any info would be greatly appreciated.
>>Thom Cook
>>N59TC
>>C-35 D-2736
>>
>>
>>
>Good Evening Thom,
>
>Have you tried the Shadin website?
>
>Or if that doesn't work, you might give them a call!
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Stutzman <stutzman(at)stutzman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shadin Miniflo Fuel Flow Meter |
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Thom Cook wrote:
> Now for the question. Does
> anyone know where I can find a copy of a 337 for the installation of a
> Shadin Miniflo on a E series engine with a pressure carb? We have all
> the parts but do not have a example to go by for the install. On this
> application we have to use 2 fuel tranducers on the engine because of
> excess fuel pumped back into the left main.
Sorry, I'm no help on a Shadin installation, but I ran into the same
thing when I installed a JPI EDM-800 on my A-35.
I had to get a "fuel flow differential module" from Electronics
International that tied the two transducers togather and made them looke
like one to the JPI (it basically subtracted the return
line transducer 'clicks' from the feed line transducer 'clicks'). I
couldn't find the EI web page, but Aircraft Spruce talks about this magic
box at the bottom of
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/ei_fuelflowpress.php
It'll be a grey area about getting it legally installed. In my case JPI
recommended it, but EI refuses to support it when not used with their fuel
flow gauge. JPI couldn't help me with it (not their product), EI wouldn't
help me with it (not an approved installation). I think we rather glossed
over it in the STC/337 paperwork and the FSDO didn't question us on it.
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shadin Miniflo Fuel Flow Meter |
In a message dated 8/15/03 1:14:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
stutzman(at)stutzman.com writes:
> I couldn't find the EI web page,
Good Morning Frank,
Try: http://www.buy-ei.com/
Interesting that they wouldn't help. I have found them extremely cooperative
and helpful.
Incidentally, while I like the Shadin products, I have found their service to
be extremely variable. Years ago, I was able to get good advice most of the
time. The last few years I get the impression that they are no longer
interested in the small GA aircraft. Anything less than a King Air and they don't
want to bother.
JPI may not have the best built stuff on the market, but it seems to work
well and they have very most responsive folks in their service department. Every
year at Oshkosh and Sun 'n Fun, Joe P. is right there at the counter selling
his product and listening to what his customers want.
It shows!
I have Shadin fuel flow and Insight Gem in my personal airplane. They both
work great.
However, if I were buying new today, I would have to consider EI due to their
quality and JPI because of how hard they work to make the customer happy.
As to the approval you made and Thom needs, I think I would try to have your
IA discuss it informally with his supervising inspector.
A good IA will have a decent working relationship with at least one local FED.
Some would prefer that it go through as yours did. Just list on the 337
what was done and submit it as a straight 337. Others would prefer that you ask
for a local approval.
In the past, most wanted to go the "local approval" route. Since all of the
hassle the last few years with local approvals, many have slid over to the
position that minor alterations are better. I have even had a 337 returned
because my supervising inspector said that what I did was just a minor alternation
and didn't require a 337.
Times and procedures do change.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Comcast Mail" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Turn & Bank and Radios |
Bob & Group,
You've definitely convinced me on the turn and bank. Since I'm going to
have to install a 2 1/4" due to an electric attitude indicator already
in the spot, what manufacturer would you recommend for the T&B? You
mentioned you've been through several, did any last longer than others?
My current one is a 1 minute turn (actually marked on the glass like
this) and really puts the aircraft in a sharp bank when I put it on the
dog house. Unfortunately it must be logrithmic because half way isn't a
2 minute turn.
Also,
I have a somewhat weird issue. For whatever reason I cannot turn on
some runway lights at night unless I'm virtually right over the airport
or on final. I've had the radios and antennas checked and all appear
fine. Both antennas are top mounted and I've switched radios from com1
to 2 and it doesn't seem to matter. Could the top mounted antennas be
the problem? Its usually not a big deal except when I'm flying in IMC
and just breaking out trying to find the airport. I'm always able to
turn them on in time, but it is troubling. The avionics shop is out of
ideas. Any thoughts?
Gary S.
N77QQ
1979 V35B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Turn & Bank and Radios |
In a message dated 8/16/03 1:24:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
gjstrong(at)comcast.net writes:
> Since I'm going to
> have to install a 2 1/4" due to an electric attitude indicator already
> in the spot, what manufacturer would you recommend for the T&B?
Good Afternoon Gary,
My guru suggests buying the surplus military units and listening to them run.
He says that if they sound smooth, they will be likely to last a long time.
If they sound rough and scratchy, send em back!
I tried to get him to take them apart and find me a good one, but he says it
isn't cost effective to do so. He feels that all of the current production
two and a quarter ones are of very poor quality. I've bought several surplus
ones from the fly marts at Sun n' Fun and Oshkosh over the years for one hundred
to two hundred bucks. They generally last five hundred hours or so.
I have decided to go back to full sized units. It is my understanding that
there is only one current manufacturer of those in the USA. The different
manufacturers just put their own name on them.
I believe they are manufactured by a subsidiary of Mid Continent.
My information comes from my local instrument repair shop. I have dealt with
him for the last thirty years, or more, and have found his advice to be good
and accurate. However, everybody makes mistakes!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <aflyer(at)direcway.com> |
Please see the attached file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jacklockamy(at)att.net> |
Please see the attached file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBINFLY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Prop AD and fuel pump SB |
Hi listers:
I need to do the 5-yr inspection AD on my Hartzell prop. Two months ago, I
was told by Aero Propeller of Hemet, CA, that they had a fire and will call me
back when they are back in business. Do you know anyone in the Southwest who
is familiar with Hartzell prop for "E" engine?
I also need to inspect the fuel pump because it has been 300 hr since last
inspection. I remember Lew Gage in ABS magazine wrote about a mod that will
eliminate this SB. Does anyone have any field experience with this $1,000+ mod?
Thanks,
Robin Hou
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | E35 Bonanza Project FOR SALE |
Hi All,
I've finally gotten (fallen) off the proverbial fence. If any of you are
interested in my 1954 E35 Bonanza project, see the auction on eBay :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2430542366
It's essentially a complete aircraft - except for engine & prop. Stripped
and disassembled for storage/shipping 20 years ago, she's been waiting patiently
for someone to resurrect her. It just looks like I won't be able to get into
a project like that for another 8-10 years, so I want to get her out to
someone who can use her.
Thanks,
Jeff Wirs
N3551B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Beech-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 09/05/03 |
Hi All,
Just a reminder that my E35 auction ends tommorrow - if you're interested in
a project.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2430542366
Jeff Wirs
N3551B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New SPAM and Virus Filtering Appliance At Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
I will be installing a new SPAM and virus blocking appliance this
evening or tomorrow. The installation will involve some changes
in the Matronics DNS MX records, and will impact how incoming
email is handled. While I expect these changes to be transparent
to all of the List subscribers, things might go differently... ;-)
The Lists get bombarded with tons of SPAM messages and viruses
each day and fortunately my custom filters have been extremely
effective at filtering most of this from redistribution. Its
time to move to the next level of technology, however, and this
SPAM and Virus filtering appliance seems like an excellent
solution.
I will post a follow up message later in the week when things
have stabilized and I have some filter statistics to share.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | KLN 90B flight manual |
Does anyone have a flight manual for a KLN 90B installed in a V35B? When
I purchased my plane a flight manual wasn't in the documentation and I
wasn't smart enough to notice. All the appropriate paperwork is in the
logbooks for the installation, but to fly legal I need a flight manual.
My avionics shop will do one from scratch, but my IA said if a manual
can be found that we can modify, it would be a ton easier.
Gary S.
1979 V35B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: KLN 90B flight manual |
In a message dated 9/20/03 12:16:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
gjstrong(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> Does anyone have a flight manual for a KLN 90B installed in a V35B? When
> I purchased my plane a flight manual wasn't in the documentation and I
> wasn't smart enough to notice.
Good Morning Gary,
If you are referring to the FAA Approved Flight Manual Supplement, it is a
document that is specific to your aircraft.
That is one of the difficulties of the local approval process.
Bendix/King/Honeywell supplies a representative manual from which the
installer then writes one that is specific to the aircraft in which the unit is
to be
installed.
It is impossible to tell what the installer may have written into your
document. If you do not have the individual document, the set is not legal to
be
used.
Such things as precisely how the set is to be used could have been changed
from the procedure that King recommended. Individual FAA inspectors have asked
for certain language changes that they like to see.
While most installers use a form very close to what was recommended, there is
no guarantee that that was what was done for yours.
My suggestion would be that you contact the installer and see if they kept a
copy. I retain a copy of each one that I submit.
If a copy of the original is not obtainable, it will be necessary to make
another one and submit it for approval. Once again, that will be easier for the
original installer than it would be for anyone else.
Getting a copy of the factory suggested manual is a good first step, but it
must be modified to reflect those individual changes that were originally
approved for your individual airplane.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | KLN 90B flight manual |
Bob,
Thanks for your note. The aircraft was purchased from Germany and as
such the shop that installed the unit (about 6 years ago) is in Germany
as well. The JAA paperwork appears in order (it looks much different
than a 337 but in a number of locations the 90B is referred to). My
hope was to get a copy of someone else's flight manual and then modify
it to my aircraft. I do have a copy of an original factory one supplied
by King that we can use if needed. Obviously the flight tests will need
to be re-done and then submitted for approval by the local FSDO.
The good news is the installation appears to be very well done with
appropriate annunciators and wiring to the HSI, RMI, etc. Everything
works very well so its "only" the paperwork that is the issue.
Gary S.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-beech-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-beech-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Beech-List: KLN 90B flight manual
In a message dated 9/20/03 12:16:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
gjstrong(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> Does anyone have a flight manual for a KLN 90B installed in a V35B?
> When I purchased my plane a flight manual wasn't in the documentation
> and I wasn't smart enough to notice.
Good Morning Gary,
If you are referring to the FAA Approved Flight Manual Supplement, it is
a
document that is specific to your aircraft.
That is one of the difficulties of the local approval process.
Bendix/King/Honeywell supplies a representative manual from which the
installer then writes one that is specific to the aircraft in which the
unit is to be
installed.
It is impossible to tell what the installer may have written into your
document. If you do not have the individual document, the set is not
legal to be
used.
Such things as precisely how the set is to be used could have been
changed
from the procedure that King recommended. Individual FAA inspectors
have asked
for certain language changes that they like to see.
While most installers use a form very close to what was recommended,
there is
no guarantee that that was what was done for yours.
My suggestion would be that you contact the installer and see if they
kept a
copy. I retain a copy of each one that I submit.
If a copy of the original is not obtainable, it will be necessary to
make
another one and submit it for approval. Once again, that will be easier
for the
original installer than it would be for anyone else.
Getting a copy of the factory suggested manual is a good first step, but
it
must be modified to reflect those individual changes that were
originally
approved for your individual airplane.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stewart Cochran" <stewbc(at)goquest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: KLN 90B flight manual |
Hi Gary,
Go to this Ebay site where there are two manuals up for bid. Just click
your mouse on the address.
http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=kln+90b&storecache=82408875+26070279&sosortorder=2&ht=1&sosortproperty=3&from=R10&sotextsearched=2&BasicSearchStew Cochran
1952 C-35
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Beech-List: KLN 90B flight manual
>
> Does anyone have a flight manual for a KLN 90B installed in a V35B? When
> I purchased my plane a flight manual wasn't in the documentation and I
> wasn't smart enough to notice. All the appropriate paperwork is in the
> logbooks for the installation, but to fly legal I need a flight manual.
> My avionics shop will do one from scratch, but my IA said if a manual
> can be found that we can modify, it would be a ton easier.
>
> Gary S.
> 1979 V35B
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] SPAM Filter Could Be Causing Posting Problems |
For Some Members...?
Dear Listers,
Matronics is now utilizing a SPAM filter appliance to filter out the
excessive amounts of inappropriate email that bombards the Email List
Forums each day. The filter is reporting that over 66% of the email
messages sent to Matronics email destinations are of SPAM content and
reviewing the logfiles, it would appear to be true. That is indeed great!
While the Lists are enjoying the breath of fresh air afforded by the new
appliance, I am suspecting that a few legitimate email List posts are being
blocked as too, although I can't confirm this. It is difficult to churn
through the logfiles looking though thousands of blocked email messages
trying to determine if any legitimate List posts were blocked.
If you suspect that your posts are accidently being blocked by the SPAM
filter appliance, I have created a new Trouble Report web page that will
allow you to report your problems directly to me without having to use
email. If the SPAM filter is blocking your email address for some reason,
then its likely that I wouldn't be able to receive your direct email
regarding difficulty in posting. The web form bypasses the incoming email
and directs your message directly to me.
Please include as much information as possible regarding the problems you
are having including any bounced email or email error messages that you may
have received back in regard to your posts to the lists. The more
information I have about the email you are sending and what the errors you
are receiving, the better chance I'll have in hunting down the problem.
The Trouble Report Website URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report/
I apologize for any inconvenience the SPAM filter may be causing you. I
will work toward resolving your issues as quickly as possible.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack H Sparling, Jr." <jack.sparling(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | J. L. Osborne Tip Tanks |
I am looking for a set of J.L. Osborne Tip Tanks for my C35, I would also
like to know if I can putlarger fuel bladders in my wings. If you have any
information, please let me know.
I also want to put a dual blade GS/Nav antenna on the tail. Is this
advisable and do you have any installation instructions, etc.
Jack Sparling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: J. L. Osborne Tip Tanks |
In a message dated 9/23/03 5:21:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
jack.sparling(at)chartermi.net writes:
> I am looking for a set of J.L. Osborne Tip Tanks for my C35, I would also
> like to know if I can put larger fuel bladders in my wings. If you have any
> information, please let me know.
>
> I also want to put a dual blade GS/Nav antenna on the tail. Is this
> advisable and do you have any installation instructions, etc.
>
> Jack Sparling
>
Good Afternoon Jack,
The Osborne tanks are an excellent addition for your airplane. They, and the
Brittain tanks which preceded the Osbornes, are twenty gallon tanks. BDS
makes a fifteen to eighteen gallon tank which is also approved on your airplane.
It might be advisable for you to check with both manufacturers to see which
of the two tank installations will give you the greatest gross weight increase.
Obviously, if maximum fuel is more important to you, the Osbornes would be
the best to get.
I know of no modification that will place bigger internal cells in your wing.
A couple of years ago, the Osbornes only allowed a 150 pound increase while
the BDS had a 200 pound increase. There are differences in rather or not any
fuel is required to be in the tips to get the gross weight increase. Some also
require a change from Utility to Normal category while other installations do
not.
If the gross weight increase means more to you, you may want the BDS tanks.
Since they are both constantly modifying their products, it is best to get
the latest information before you make your decision.
I highly recommend the installation of VHF navigation blades on the tail. I
have them on my airplane and our son has them on his S35.
Incidentally, he is currently writing an article for the ABS newsletter
describing the installation of the blades. If it is accepted for publication,
it
should be available soon.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | ruddervator balancing washer |
Hello List:
With all the ruddervator balancing going on, Does anyone have a genuine Beech
ruddervator balancing weight (washer)? I am seeking the dimensions and weight
of the real thing. Can anyone help?
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Straight 35, Las Vegas, NV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | 35, A35, B35 Skin Thickness Test |
One question for the group:
Anyone not pass the inspection and what did you do?
Regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
1949 A35 D-1730 N723B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
Hi All,
Request info from anyone who has a Anywhere Map GPS and how you mounted it.
GarHawk has one, WL 107, that mounts on the trim knob. Has anyone used it?
Are there any others? I mounted mine on the right glove box lid, at an
angle, and my wife loved it. But I couldn't see it for the glare or direct
sunlight. Now that I have something to navigate by I need an autopilot.!
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
1949 A35 N723B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anywhere Map! |
| From: | Shelby Smith <rvaitor(at)comcast.net> |
I mounted mine on the yoke. Have a lowrance Airmap mounted on the other.
Let me know when you get approval to connect your autopilot to your
handheld.
--
Shelby Smith
N4004T M-1110 based at
The EAA Complex - Smyrna, TN
http://www.myplaneonline.com/N4004T.html
> From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
> Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:20:30 -0500
> To: "Beech-List"
> Subject: Beech-List: Anywhere Map!
>
>
> Hi All,
> Request info from anyone who has a Anywhere Map GPS and how you mounted it.
> GarHawk has one, WL 107, that mounts on the trim knob. Has anyone used it?
> Are there any others? I mounted mine on the right glove box lid, at an
> angle, and my wife loved it. But I couldn't see it for the glare or direct
> sunlight. Now that I have something to navigate by I need an autopilot.!
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> 1949 A35 N723B
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anywhere Map! |
Hi Shelby,
Thanks for the reply. No I don't intend to connect the two. Looked up your N
number thinking by your email address you had an RV airplane. The Beech 23
is a nice airplane.
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shelby Smith" <rvaitor(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Beech-List: Anywhere Map!
>
> I mounted mine on the yoke. Have a lowrance Airmap mounted on the other.
>
> Let me know when you get approval to connect your autopilot to your
> handheld.
>
> --
> Shelby Smith
> N4004T M-1110 based at
> The EAA Complex - Smyrna, TN
> http://www.myplaneonline.com/N4004T.html
>
> > From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
> > Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:20:30 -0500
> > To: "Beech-List"
> > Subject: Beech-List: Anywhere Map!
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> > Request info from anyone who has a Anywhere Map GPS and how you mounted
it.
> > GarHawk has one, WL 107, that mounts on the trim knob. Has anyone used
it?
> > Are there any others? I mounted mine on the right glove box lid, at an
> > angle, and my wife loved it. But I couldn't see it for the glare or
direct
> > sunlight. Now that I have something to navigate by I need an autopilot.!
> > Best regards,
> > Bruce Bell
> > 1949 A35 N723B
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rodger Hamrick" <rbhamrick(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anywhere Map! |
Good Afternoon Bruce-
I looked at several mounts for my iPAQ/AnywhereMap before deciding on the
Model# QC-S-BGP (Bonanza GPS/PDA/PPC Mount) from Autel Corp....$56.20. Well
built, easy to install, easily pivots for viewing by pilot or co-pilot.
http://www.autelcorp.com/BnzaDualMtsSoln.html
Rodger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Beech-List: Anywhere Map!
>
> Hi All,
> Request info from anyone who has a Anywhere Map GPS and how you mounted
it.
> GarHawk has one, WL 107, that mounts on the trim knob. Has anyone used it?
> Are there any others? I mounted mine on the right glove box lid, at an
> angle, and my wife loved it. But I couldn't see it for the glare or direct
> sunlight. Now that I have something to navigate by I need an autopilot.!
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> 1949 A35 N723B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net> |
I used the mount that came with the unit, but cut off the bottom half
that clamped around the yoke (too big!). I then just used a hose clamp
to attach it to the yoke arm. Worked like a champ.
Did you also get AnywhereWX? The product is very good. I just mounted
the phone on the rib between the front and side window on the pilot side
and it gets great reception. Takes about 30 seconds to download metars
& nexrad, a little more if I download tafs as well. I can send pictures
if you'd like.
Gary S.
1979 V35B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Beech Party Pics |
| From: | Shelby Smith <rvaitor(at)comcast.net> |
Here is the link to my snapshots at Tullahoma.
http://www.pbase.com/shelbyrv6a/beech_party_2003
Another great year.
--
Shelby Smith
N4004T M-1110 based at
The EAA Complex - Smyrna, TN
http://www.myplaneonline.com/N4004T.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New Matronics Email List Online Chat!!! |
Hi Listers!
A number of Listers have been asking for some Matronics Email List online
chat and NOW ITS HERE! Over the last couple of days I've set up a nifty
web-based Chat site here on the Matronics systems. No special programs to
download; all you need is a late model web browser like Internet Explorer
or Netscape with a java plugin. I would recommend downloading the latest
Java plugin if you experience any problems getting the page to come
up. Here's a link to the Sun Java download
website. http://java.com/en/index.jsp Look for the green box with the
yellow arrow in the upper right corner. Before you bother, though, just
try you browser because it'll probably just work.
Each Email List on Matronics has its own "Room" and all rooms can easily be
accessed from the same client. In the Email List URL Trailer at the bottom
of each List message, you'll find the Link to this List's specific Chat
Room. Just click on the Link, and then type in your name or email address
in the User Name box. Try to use a name or email address that the other
Listers know you by. You'll find me lurking around the various List chat
rooms as "MattDralle".
There's a couple of nifty features I'll explain right off. On the main
Chat Window page after you login, you'll see a little icon with a Hammer
and a Screwdriver. This is the Control Panel window. Once the Control
Panel comes up, click on the "Settings" tab. Here you'll find, among other
things, three check boxes to enable sound. Click all three and you'll be
treated to a sound whenever someone enters or leaves the Room, or when
someone sends a message.
The other cool button is the one that has four little arrows pointing to
each of the four corners of the button. This will rip the main Chat window
from the web page and allow you to resize and move it anyway you'd like.
Let's have some fun and get to know one another better using this awesome
new Chat Room! To get started, just click the URL Link below for this
List's specific Chat Room!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
PS - I'm working on a web link interface to the chat logfiles. Coming soon...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2003 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing
short of impressive! Here are some statistics that show how much traffic
the Lists generated this year alone:
* 11/01/2002 - 10/31/2003
o Web server hits: 10,446,780 (870,565/mo)
o Incoming Email Posts: 58,918 (4,909/mo)
List-related upgrades this year have been plentiful, and List performance
has substantially improved as a result. Upgrades and enhancements this
year have included:
* Internet Connection upgrade to a full, commercial-grade T1 Line!
* New Web Server platform - Dual 3Ghz Xeon with 2Gb Ram and U320 SCSI!
* Upgrade of Email Server platform - Dual 1.7 Ghz Xeon with 1Gb Ram!
* All new SPAM Filtering Appliance - filters about 98% of the unwanted SPAM!
* All new, web-base List Chat Room society!
As you can well imagine, this year's upgrades translate into a fair amount
of cash outlay on my part and this annual List Fund Raiser is the sole
means by which I fund these upgrades. Unlike most of the other "list
servers" on the Web these days, I have a strict
*no-commercial-advertisement policy* on the Matronics Lists and associated
List web sites. I was again approached by a number of vendors recently
with advertising deals that have been very tempting. My commitment to
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http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? |
Dear Listers,
The List Fund Raiser is going well so far this year and I wanted to say
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instruments for Sale |
beech-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com,
piper-list(at)matronics.com, warbird-list(at)matronics.com
I have the following for sale:
RC Allen Electric Attitude Indicator, 14V, 8 degree tilt, 75hrs
RC Allen Electric Directional Gyro, 14V, 150 hrs
Both instruments are still in my RV-8A panel and flying. Have been flying
the instruments 1 year. Working perfectly. Each list for $1895. Make offer
direct to: lenleg(at)aol.com
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Below are some of the nice things people have been saying about the Lists
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
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http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Dear Listers,
I was thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and
also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here
provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
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Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Listers Are Saying III |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gene smirl <cruiser50(at)yahoo.com> |
hey guys where is the best place in the houston area
to get my old bird annualed. thanks in advance for
your help
n4211b d4222
gene
__________________________________
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A J DeMarzo" <planepubs(at)ev1.net> |
Gene;
Not directed specifically at your question but to the many inquiries
regarding prebuys and mechanics/shops in general. Much has been written not
only here, but in paper publications about the importance of Bonanza
specific experience as well as the skill level of the mechanics doing an
annual. So many idiosyncrasies exist with the older Bonanzas that it
greatly benefits when the right shop is chosen. How many mechanics know
about the nose gear rod ends? How many have the scales to measure up and
downlock tension? How many know that you really don't have to change wing
bolts 99% of the time? What about the best place to buy parts or outsource
work? Unless you're proficient enough to be able to advise your mechanic
(if he'll take advice), I'd search for the right guy in your area. Next we
need to consider costs, which unfortunately is sometimes placed as the main
priority. Tough decision, but for you I'd recommend Hammock in Ennis (south
of Dallas) for anything Bonanza. Not cheap (everyone is too expensive by my
standards), but thorough.
Happy New Year
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "gene smirl" <cruiser50(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Beech-List: f35 anual
>
> hey guys where is the best place in the houston area
> to get my old bird annualed. thanks in advance for
> your help
>
> n4211b d4222
> gene
>
> __________________________________
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George and Mary Armstrong <armstpat(at)comcast.net> |
All good points. I suggest contacting the American Bonanza Society.
They have always been willing to recommend someone in the past. If you
don't already belong, you should.
http://www.bonanza.org/
George Armstrong.
On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 06:37, A J DeMarzo wrote:
>
> Gene;
> Not directed specifically at your question but to the many inquiries
> regarding prebuys and mechanics/shops in general. Much has been written not
> only here, but in paper publications about the importance of Bonanza
> specific experience as well as the skill level of the mechanics doing an
> annual. So many idiosyncrasies exist with the older Bonanzas that it
> greatly benefits when the right shop is chosen. How many mechanics know
> about the nose gear rod ends? How many have the scales to measure up and
> downlock tension? How many know that you really don't have to change wing
> bolts 99% of the time? What about the best place to buy parts or outsource
> work? Unless you're proficient enough to be able to advise your mechanic
> (if he'll take advice), I'd search for the right guy in your area. Next we
> need to consider costs, which unfortunately is sometimes placed as the main
> priority. Tough decision, but for you I'd recommend Hammock in Ennis (south
> of Dallas) for anything Bonanza. Not cheap (everyone is too expensive by my
> standards), but thorough.
> Happy New Year
> Al
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gene smirl" <cruiser50(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Beech-List: f35 anual
>
>
> >
> > hey guys where is the best place in the houston area
> > to get my old bird annualed. thanks in advance for
> > your help
> >
> > n4211b d4222
> > gene
> >
> > __________________________________
> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
Gene,
I'll second what the others have said here. Call the ABS and find out who
they can recommend.
In any case, here are the Texas shops I have heard about that are supposed
to be good, even if they aren't in the Houston area:
Air-0 Specialists, Inc.
4666 Glenn Curtis Road
Dallas, TX 75248
972-931-1669
Ferrell C. Trask President/Owner
Dallas Airspares
Northwest Regional airport (52F)
1523 Airway Blvd.
N.W. Regional Airport
Roanoke, TX 76262
817-430-0862
817-430-0864 (fax)
Tom Crimson
(2002.03.01: Tom is an old Army Rotary Wing guy from Viet Nam days and
does a lot of work for Tim Pollard (broker of Bonanzas))
Flight Star Airmotive
Addison airport (ADS)
4736 Airport Pkwy
Addison, TX 75001
972-701-8718
Mark Foley
(2002.03.01: Here at Addison, Mark Foley at Flight Star owns a Deb and is
very conscientious. He does work on other planes, but at least knows older
Bonanzas.)
Hammock Aviation Services
Ennis Municipal Airport (F41)
3002 W. Ennis Ave.
Ennis, TX 75119
972-875-4279
Jerry Hammock:
http://www.hammockaviation.com
(good Beech mechanic, has several mods and conversions, too)
Metro Aircraft Services
Air ParkDallas airport (F69)
Route 10, Box 175
6350 W. Plano Pkwy
Plano, TX 75093
972-248-6053
John L. Black Owner
email:
(2002.03.01: Best place in Texas for Beechcraft maintenance!!!! Kind of a
country place in the big city. The runway is in good condition but the
taxiways are in poor condition. Call ahead and get a tug into the shop to
save your prop.)
Precision Aviation
Arlington Municipal Airport
5240 South Collins Street
Arlington, TX 76018
817-465-0908
John Butler
Happy New Year,
Ron Davis
gene smirl wrote:
>
> hey guys where is the best place in the houston area
> to get my old bird annualed. thanks in advance for
> your help
>
> n4211b d4222
> gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Calcopter(at)aol.com |
Gene
Check out Beaver Air Services at Hooks Airport near Houston.
They do alot of Bonanza work and put on Bonanza Clinics for ABS.
Phone: David Beaver
281-376-6664
281-851-8960
Regards, Scott Millen
64 S35
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Ulmer <b35(at)bonanza.aviator.cc> |
| Subject: | Landing Gear Transmission Question |
Hey guys,
My B35 landing gearbox has some play in it, and appears to need a rebuild.
When the gear is run to a midpoint and you push/pull the maingear the
mains also move and you can see the tube on the gearbox turn slightly.
Seems to be play inside the transmission there. Mechanic indicates
that down lock and up loads cant be adjusted to spec with that play in
there.
Anyone here have this done, and approx how much did it cost you to have
done?
Can the gears be replaced in the field, or best done by a specialist?
Did you/should a person have the electric motor rebuilt at the same time?
Tx,
--Eric
B35
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert J. Mayer" <rjmayer1(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
Eric-
Hopefully my experience will be of some help.
I had a bent shaft in my gearbox, straight '35. The mechanic sent box for
repair at Cruiseair in Ramona, California, and for the measly sum (????) of
just $2,500 I had the box rebuilt. The mechanic did not rebuilt the motor at
the same time.
I was always of the opinion that this guy knew what he was doing, and the
box worked well after the repair.
Good luck,
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Ulmer <b35(at)bonanza.aviator.cc> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
Thanks for your info, Rob
Hey, how long did it take for them to turn it around?
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Robert J. Mayer wrote:
>
> Eric-
> Hopefully my experience will be of some help.
> I had a bent shaft in my gearbox, straight '35. The mechanic sent box for
> repair at Cruiseair in Ramona, California, and for the measly sum (????) of
> just $2,500 I had the box rebuilt. The mechanic did not rebuilt the motor at
> the same time.
> I was always of the opinion that this guy knew what he was doing, and the
> box worked well after the repair.
> Good luck,
> Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
The transmission consists of worm and ring gear. Beech calls the ring gear
portion the "sector gear" which is driven by the worm gear, which has the
motor gear reduction box attached to one end and the manual crank attached
(or disengaged) from the other end. I don't have my books available here,
but it is important with ring and worm sets to limit the "end play" of the
worm gear, otherwise it will slide laterally back and forth in it's bore as
pressure is applied in a reverse direction from the ring gear and give the
appearance of worn gears. I don't recall how Beech addresses end play, but
it is worth checking. If you need an illustration of how worm gears work
look here:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/gear-ratio4.htm
If I'm not describing this adequately, please respond and I will try to do
better.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, Straight 35
Subject: Beech-List: Landing Gear Transmission Question
> My B35 landing gearbox has some play in it, and appears to need a rebuild.
> When the gear is run to a midpoint and you push/pull the maingear the
> mains also move and you can see the tube on the gearbox turn slightly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dave schultz" <dhschultz39(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | re: beech landing gear transmission |
morning, eric
before i spent big bucks, i'd touch base with neil pobanz/glen foulk, the abs technical consultants that answer such questions based on about 70 yrs bonanza-specific experience among them. you can reach them through www.bonanza.org
if you're not already a member, it's the best "membership" bucks i spend per year
- just getting access to the abs reference library cdrom which probably has
info on the gearbox is worth it alone.
dhschultz
c35 flyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert J. Mayer" <rjmayer1(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
Eric-
If I recall correctly, it was about 2-3 weeks for the turnaround, including
shipping (it went from the east coast to the west coast and back).
My mechanic said it was likely that the box had never been out of the bird
in the first 50 or so years of operation and he found a prior oil leak was
improperly sealed with some type of flexible caulk rather than a proper
gasket. Nevertheless, it soldiered on and probably would have continued to
do so until some stormy night on short final.....
Blue skies!
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Ulmer" <b35(at)bonanza.aviator.cc>
Subject: Re: Beech-List: Landing Gear Transmission Question
>
> Thanks for your info, Rob
> Hey, how long did it take for them to turn it around?
>
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Robert J. Mayer wrote:
>
> >
> > Eric-
> > Hopefully my experience will be of some help.
> > I had a bent shaft in my gearbox, straight '35. The mechanic sent box
for
> > repair at Cruiseair in Ramona, California, and for the measly sum (????)
of
> > just $2,500 I had the box rebuilt. The mechanic did not rebuilt the
motor at
> > the same time.
> > I was always of the opinion that this guy knew what he was doing, and
the
> > box worked well after the repair.
> > Good luck,
> > Rob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
In a message dated 2/15/04 9:57:40 AM Central Standard Time,
rjmayer1(at)adelphia.net writes:
Eric-
If I recall correctly, it was about 2-3 weeks for the turnaround, including
shipping (it went from the east coast to the west coast and back).
My mechanic said it was likely that the box had never been out of the bird
in the first 50 or so years of operation and he found a prior oil leak was
improperly sealed with some type of flexible caulk rather than a proper
gasket. Nevertheless, it soldiered on and probably would have continued to
do so until some stormy night on short final.....
Blue skies!
Rob
Good Morning Rob,
For What It's Worth, the flexible caulk may have been the proper sealant.
The two halves of the transmission housing are sealed via a flexible caulk, not
a gasket.
I have rebuilt an early transmission and it is not at all difficult, however,
I would strongly recommend sending it off to a shop such as Cruiseair. They
have the experience and can find problems that we others may miss. There is
nothing like experience. Cruiseair will also have the ability to easily
determine which parts are serviceable and which must be replaced. It is also likely
they will have good, used, but serviceable, parts available with no wait for
parts sourcing.
If it is one of the early style transmissions, play in the worm shaft is
adjusted by insertion of appropriate washer style shims. They would have a stock
of such shims. Last time I did it, Beech had none in stock.
My recommendation is to send it to Cruiseair or another equally experienced
and reliable shop.
I also wish to state that I am completely in agreement with your suggestion
that Neil or Arky (And now, Ron Gros), be consulted. If anyone owns any Beech
product and is not a member of the ABS, they are making a major mistake!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
One clue as to if the trans was ever rebuilt:
Mine, upon removal, the top and bottom shaft seals were leather, you know
from the Cow!
Does that sound original?
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, Straight 35, 1948
> My mechanic said it was likely that the box had never been out of the bird
> in the first 50 or so years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
At 06:02 PM 2/14/2004, you wrote:
>
>The transmission consists of worm and ring gear.
Didn't I read somewhere that the Beech landing gear tranny is actually a
convertible top unit from an early Plymouth or some such?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
1965 Debonair for sale - see www.moonrovers.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
In a message dated 2/17/04 11:56:26 AM Central Standard Time,
kempthornes(at)earthlink.net writes:
Didn't I read somewhere that the Beech landing gear tranny is actually a
convertible top unit from an early Plymouth or some such?
Good Morning Hal,
If you did, whoever wrote it was way off base. It is a very highly
engineered unit straight out of Beechcraft.
One of the best things they did on the Bonanza was the landing gear design.
Unfortunately, they blamed one accident in flight testing (falsely I believe)
on the gear coming out slightly in a high G pullout and added the uplocks.
The uplocks change a very elegant system into something of dog.
I think it is time to get rid of the uplocks, but can you imagine the hassle
the FAA would give me on that suggestion?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
Hal,
No, but you are in the ballpark. While the gearbox was designed by Beech,
the lube in it was ordinary (at the time) gear oil for Model A Fords: Mobil
Compound GG.
When Model A's became scarce, so did the need for Mobil GG. (Well,
actually, Mobil Compound GG has lotsa lead in it, and that is an EPA no-no.
Not from a usage standpoint, but from a manufacturing standpoint.)
Soooo, it was superseded to Mobilgear 626, which is what we are using today.
The seals / gaskets in both the Ford and Beech gearboxes were originally
made of (moo!) leather, and Mobil GG / Mobilgear 626 does fine, but other
gear oils tend to seep past them, which is why it is so important to use
*only* the recommended lube in these things. And a little goes a long way.
Don't overfill. (But you knew that.)
" The Mobilgear 600 Series are extra high performance gear oils having
outstanding extreme pressure characteristics and load-carrying properties,
intended for use in all types of enclosed gear drives with circulation or
splash lubrication systems. They are formulated from highly refined base
stocks and a special additive system that provides an extremely high level
of resistance to oxidation and chemical degradation. They have
friction-modifying characteristics that reduce power consumption and lower
bulk oil temperatures. The Mobilgear 600 Series oils protect against
corrosion and rusting, including seawater. They have excellent water
separating properties and they are strongly resistant to foaming in service."
Wow. Too bad they can't make an engine crankcase oil with those properties.
Ron D.
kempthornes wrote:
>
> At 06:02 PM 2/14/2004, you wrote:
>
>>
>>The transmission consists of worm and ring gear.
>
>
> Didn't I read somewhere that the Beech landing gear tranny is actually a
> convertible top unit from an early Plymouth or some such?
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> 1965 Debonair for sale - see www.moonrovers.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
Hello Ron:
If the original leather seals are replaced with modern types, does the
type of gear grease then matter?
Randy L. thwing, Las Vegas
> The seals / gaskets in both the Ford and Beech gearboxes were originally
> made of (moo!) leather, and Mobil GG / Mobilgear 626 does fine, but other
> gear oils tend to seep past them, which is why it is so important to use
> *only* the recommended lube in these things.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Transmission Question |
Randy,
The mechanical answer is "probably not." With non-leaking seals, you could
probably put corn oil in the thing and it would work fine. We aren't
talking hi temperatures or hi stress here.
The FAA answer is "it certainly does matter." Anything else is "not authorized."
Ron D.
Randy L. Thwing wrote:
>
> Hello Ron:
>
> If the original leather seals are replaced with modern types, does the
> type of gear grease then matter?
>
> Randy L. thwing, Las Vegas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi,
Mark and I are partners in a Beech Bonanza A36 which we enjoy flying. We need
to find some part numbers so we can order a Yoke Electric Trim switch and two
Annunicators above the HSI for open Baggage door etc. Can someone direct us
to a Beech Parts house we can talk to. We do not have the part numbers and looked
through the maintenance manuals our A&P has.
Any help would be awesome.......
Thanks,
Richard Hebert
Director - Billing Analysis
> ?> T> ???> Mobile> ?>
OFC: 425-378-5213
PCS: 678-860-3656
This email is confidential and T-Mobile Proprietary. It's contents are Attorney/Client
privileged information. You may not read, copy or distribute it's contents
unless you are the intended recipient.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Davis <radavis2522(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1972 Beech A36 |
Richard,
The best Beech parts house (in my worthless opinion) is:
Arrell Aircraft
701 Del Norte Blvd., Suite 220
Oxnard, CA 93030
805-604-0439
805-604-0429 (fax)
Rick Leatherwood
email:
http://www.arrellaircraft.com/
Rick knows most of the major numbers off the top of his head, and more often
than not he will have what you need in stock.
But if you need electronicky stuff close to home, try:
Cannon Avionics
Arlington Municipal Airport (AWO)
18650 59th Drive NE
Arlington, WA 98223-7836
360-435-0900
... although they probably can't help you with Beech part numbers.
Once you know what it is, my alternate electronic bits supply house that has
a lot of New Old Stock stuff is:
Flame Enterprises
20945 Osborne St.
Canoga Park, Ca. 91304
818-700-2905 or 800-854-2255
818-700-9168 fax
email: info(at)flamecorp.com
http://www.flamecorp.com/index.html
They carry lots of the old Cutler-Hammer piano key switches that are so hard
to find nowadays.
Happy scrounging,
Ron D.
Hebert, Richard wrote:
> <Richard.Hebert@T-Mobile.com>
>
> Hi, Mark and I are partners in a Beech Bonanza A36 which we enjoy flying.
> We need to find some part numbers so we can order a Yoke Electric Trim
> switch and two Annunicators above the HSI for open Baggage door etc. Can
> someone direct us to a Beech Parts house we can talk to. We do not have
> the part numbers and looked through the maintenance manuals our A&P has.
> Any help would be awesome....... Thanks,
>
> Richard Hebert Director - Billing Analysis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Pushrod Oil Leak |
I have a 1979 V35B with the IO520 engine with about 800 hrs on a factory
rebuild. I have been leaking oil out of the pushrod tubes right around
where the springs and rubber gasket/washer meet at the crankcase. Not
tons of oil, but definitely enough to make the cowling & belly oily. At
the annual a few weeks ago we replaced all the seals with Real Gasket
Pushrod seals w/ tapered springs (supposedly the best seals out there).
Bottom line is I still see some oil leakage, while definitely less than
was there previously. I've only owned the aircraft 2 years so I don't
know if its always been this way since rebuild. I heard that possibly
the oil fill cap/seal could be bad and cause some case pressure so I
replaced that as well with no result.
My question - Are oil leaks around the seals/springs common on the
IO520? It is fixable or something I have to live with? What's the
"normal" amount?
Thanks!
Gary
N77QQ - Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pushrod Oil Leak |
In a message dated 2/21/04 10:21:46 PM Central Standard Time,
gjstrong(at)comcast.net writes:
My question - Are oil leaks around the seals/springs common on the
IO520? It is fixable or something I have to live with? What's the
"normal" amount?
Good Evening Gary,
They should not be leaking.
However, they can be a bear to get properly installed. Like any seal, they
need to be installed carefully.
I am not familiar with the tapered ones you are talking about, but most
engines have little or no problem with normal push rod seals
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A J DeMarzo" <planepubs(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pushrod Oil Leak |
Gary;
I'll agree with Ol' Bob and say they shouldn't be leaking and they are a
bear to get right. I've done one a few that continue to seep while others
are dry as a bone. At first I thought that one side of the engine wasn't
getting any oil! Keep pluggin' away at it!
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Beech-List: Pushrod Oil Leak
>
> I have a 1979 V35B with the IO520 engine with about 800 hrs on a factory
> rebuild. I have been leaking oil out of the pushrod tubes right around
> where the springs and rubber gasket/washer meet at the crankcase. Not
> tons of oil, but definitely enough to make the cowling & belly oily. At
> the annual a few weeks ago we replaced all the seals with Real Gasket
> Pushrod seals w/ tapered springs (supposedly the best seals out there).
> Bottom line is I still see some oil leakage, while definitely less than
> was there previously. I've only owned the aircraft 2 years so I don't
> know if its always been this way since rebuild. I heard that possibly
> the oil fill cap/seal could be bad and cause some case pressure so I
> replaced that as well with no result.
>
> My question - Are oil leaks around the seals/springs common on the
> IO520? It is fixable or something I have to live with? What's the
> "normal" amount?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Gary
> N77QQ - Minneapolis
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)ashcreekwireless.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pushrod Oil Leak |
The pushrod tube seals shouldn't leak but this definitely a common problem,
even with low time engines. I just overhauled a IO-520 engine for my
Bonanza myself and had several seals that leaked a bit. Frustrating. I
just had to replace them. They can be damaged during installation if you
don't do it right. And I have been told that you have to polish the shroud
tubes at the ends where the seals fit or they will leak. Apparently the cad
plating is just rough enough to prevent a good seal. They can be replaced
without removing the exhaust or induction tubes, but it isn't easy.
The oil fill cap seal should not have an effect on case pressure at the case
vents through a 3/4" dia. hose below the cap. The vent line should be free
and clear or you will have other serious problems, like blowing out the
crank seal.
I have not heard of the problem of the Real Gaskets pushrod seals leaking
before. I think they are guaranteed not to leak, whatever that means!
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Beech-List: Pushrod Oil Leak
>
> I have a 1979 V35B with the IO520 engine with about 800 hrs on a factory
> rebuild. I have been leaking oil out of the pushrod tubes right around
> where the springs and rubber gasket/washer meet at the crankcase. Not
> tons of oil, but definitely enough to make the cowling & belly oily. At
> the annual a few weeks ago we replaced all the seals with Real Gasket
> Pushrod seals w/ tapered springs (supposedly the best seals out there).
> Bottom line is I still see some oil leakage, while definitely less than
> was there previously. I've only owned the aircraft 2 years so I don't
> know if its always been this way since rebuild. I heard that possibly
> the oil fill cap/seal could be bad and cause some case pressure so I
> replaced that as well with no result.
>
> My question - Are oil leaks around the seals/springs common on the
> IO520? It is fixable or something I have to live with? What's the
> "normal" amount?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Gary
> N77QQ - Minneapolis
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "W. Patrick Lanius" <lanius(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Pushrod Oil Leak |
Gary,
Make sure there are washers on each side of the rubber seal so that the
seal is sandwiched by the two washers. The washers help to deform the
seal so it fits tight in the diameter of the hole. Make sure the spring
is well seated and is applying even pressure against the outside washer.
Be careful not to damage the seal when you install it.
Pat Lanius
Denver KFTG
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-beech-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-beech-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Strong
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:21 PM
> To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Beech-List: Pushrod Oil Leak
>
>
> I have a 1979 V35B with the IO520 engine with about 800 hrs on a
factory
> rebuild. I have been leaking oil out of the pushrod tubes right
around
> where the springs and rubber gasket/washer meet at the crankcase. Not
> tons of oil, but definitely enough to make the cowling & belly oily.
At
> the annual a few weeks ago we replaced all the seals with Real Gasket
> Pushrod seals w/ tapered springs (supposedly the best seals out
there).
> Bottom line is I still see some oil leakage, while definitely less
than
> was there previously. I've only owned the aircraft 2 years so I don't
> know if its always been this way since rebuild. I heard that possibly
> the oil fill cap/seal could be bad and cause some case pressure so I
> replaced that as well with no result.
>
> My question - Are oil leaks around the seals/springs common on the
> IO520? It is fixable or something I have to live with? What's the
> "normal" amount?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Gary
> N77QQ - Minneapolis
>
>
>
==
>
==
>
==
>
==
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBINFLY(at)aol.com |
I always pay attention to ruddervators hinges during preflight inspection by
moving reddervators alone the hinge axle to check for play. Today I noticed
some play in the right ruddervator. A closer look revealed no play in the
hinge bearings, but a very small play when reddervator is moved up & down. A
sound could be hear from within the tail cone and the play results less than 1/8
inch movement at the trailing edge of reddervator. The left ruddervator has no
play.
I did not remove the tail cone to look further since I was in a hurry to go
home. I will remove the tail cone to take a closer look in the next few days.
I am making this post to get suggestion from you guys as what should I look
for after removing the tail cone?
Thanks,
Robin Hou
54 E35
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net> |
Bill,
I sent you the money yesterday (damn, I didn't know 980,00 pennies
weighed that much! Next time I'll put them into rolls so that they'll
pack easier.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-beech-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-beech-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ROBINFLY(at)aol.com
Subject: Beech-List: Ruddervator
I always pay attention to ruddervators hinges during preflight
inspection by
moving reddervators alone the hinge axle to check for play. Today I
noticed
some play in the right ruddervator. A closer look revealed no play in
the
hinge bearings, but a very small play when reddervator is moved up &
down. A
sound could be hear from within the tail cone and the play results less
than 1/8
inch movement at the trailing edge of reddervator. The left ruddervator
has no
play.
I did not remove the tail cone to look further since I was in a hurry to
go
home. I will remove the tail cone to take a closer look in the next few
days.
I am making this post to get suggestion from you guys as what should I
look
for after removing the tail cone?
Thanks,
Robin Hou
54 E35
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Pushrod Oil Leak |
Thanks for all the advice on the pushrod tubes. We took a lot of time
when we installed them and thought everything went together fine, but we
didn't polish the tubes (darn!). Once someone gets them to quite (which
will probably mean reinstalling some of them) do they stay dry?
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pushrod Oil Leak |
In a message dated 2/22/04 6:24:09 PM Central Standard Time,
gjstrong(at)comcast.net writes:
Thanks for all the advice on the pushrod tubes. We took a lot of time
when we installed them and thought everything went together fine, but we
didn't polish the tubes (darn!). Once someone gets them to quite (which
will probably mean reinstalling some of them) do they stay dry?
Good Evening Gary,
I am on my third engine in my V35B and there has never been a push rod leak.
Our oldest son has changed five cylinders in the last four years on his 520.
So far, no push rod tube leaks. One of my close friends had a problem a year
or so ago. First couple of attempts by his mechanic at fixing the leak
failed. Took a bit more time, made sure everything was clean, well aligned and
free
of burrs. After that, no leaks. Do it right and they won't leak
With my luck, now that I have said that, mine will start leaking tomorrow!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Pushrod Oil Leak |
Bob & All,
Do you put them in dry, or do you lubricate them? If so, what do you
use to lubricate them?
I'm definitely going to try and get them not to leak (my pride just
won't allow my Bonanza to leak oil!). Is there a certain procedure you
use? From your advice I will definitely polish everything up, but is
there any other tips you'd recommend?
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-beech-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-beech-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Beech-List: Pushrod Oil Leak
In a message dated 2/22/04 6:24:09 PM Central Standard Time,
gjstrong(at)comcast.net writes:
Thanks for all the advice on the pushrod tubes. We took a lot of time
when we installed them and thought everything went together fine, but we
didn't polish the tubes (darn!). Once someone gets them to quite (which
will probably mean reinstalling some of them) do they stay dry? Good
Evening Gary,
I am on my third engine in my V35B and there has never been a push rod
leak.
Our oldest son has changed five cylinders in the last four years on his
520.
So far, no push rod tube leaks. One of my close friends had a problem a
year
or so ago. First couple of attempts by his mechanic at fixing the leak
failed. Took a bit more time, made sure everything was clean, well
aligned and free
of burrs. After that, no leaks. Do it right and they won't leak
With my luck, now that I have said that, mine will start leaking
tomorrow!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pushrod Oil Leak |
In a message dated 2/22/04 10:05:39 PM Central Standard Time,
gjstrong(at)comcast.net writes:
I'm definitely going to try and get them not to leak (my pride just
won't allow my Bonanza to leak oil!). Is there a certain procedure you
use? From your advice I will definitely polish everything up, but is
there any other tips you'd recommend?
Gary
Good Evening Gary,
I generally assemble them dry, but If I was having problems, I might try
using a little Dow Corning number 4. It is recommended for oil filter seating.
I
also know some folks like to coat the seals with Corrosion X before assembly.
The theory is that the slipperiness of such coatings allow the seals to seat
better.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "carmine pecoraro" <aeroauto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Pushrod Oil Leak |
Sometimes stubbon leaks can be stopped by coating the new seals with fuel
lube prior to assembly.
cheers carmine pecoraro
>From: "Gary Strong" <gjstrong(at)comcast.net>
>Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Beech-List: Pushrod Oil Leak
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:21:05 -0600
>
>
>I have a 1979 V35B with the IO520 engine with about 800 hrs on a factory
>rebuild. I have been leaking oil out of the pushrod tubes right around
>where the springs and rubber gasket/washer meet at the crankcase. Not
>tons of oil, but definitely enough to make the cowling & belly oily. At
>the annual a few weeks ago we replaced all the seals with Real Gasket
>Pushrod seals w/ tapered springs (supposedly the best seals out there).
>Bottom line is I still see some oil leakage, while definitely less than
>was there previously. I've only owned the aircraft 2 years so I don't
>know if its always been this way since rebuild. I heard that possibly
>the oil fill cap/seal could be bad and cause some case pressure so I
>replaced that as well with no result.
>
>My question - Are oil leaks around the seals/springs common on the
>IO520? It is fixable or something I have to live with? What's the
>"normal" amount?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Gary
>N77QQ - Minneapolis
>
>
Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBINFLY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Bad news from AOA |
Just received my AOA oil analysis report. My last report had a high iron
value (66 ppm), and this report the iron value is even higher at 75 parts per
million. AOA issued the following 4 recommendation codes:
117 iron appears high
129 possible cam/lifter wear
108 check oil filter for chips
135 resample 25 hours to monitor wear trend
This is a Continental E225-8 with only 322 hours on new Conti cylinders major
by a well-known shop 7 years ago. It runs great and burns 1 qt every 18 hr.
Last annual, all compressions were over 70.
Should I keep flying it and resample in 25 hours like AOA says or do
something now? If I should something now, what should I do?
Do you see a bottom end overhaul in my near future?
Thanks.
Robin Hou
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter and Dorothy Scott" <winginit(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad news from AOA |
Fly it for another couple hundred hours
----- Original Message -----
From: <ROBINFLY(at)aol.com>
Subject: Beech-List: Bad news from AOA
>
> Just received my AOA oil analysis report. My last report had a high iron
> value (66 ppm), and this report the iron value is even higher at 75 parts
per
> million. AOA issued the following 4 recommendation codes:
>
> 117 iron appears high
> 129 possible cam/lifter wear
> 108 check oil filter for chips
> 135 resample 25 hours to monitor wear trend
>
> This is a Continental E225-8 with only 322 hours on new Conti cylinders
major
> by a well-known shop 7 years ago. It runs great and burns 1 qt every 18
hr.
> Last annual, all compressions were over 70.
>
> Should I keep flying it and resample in 25 hours like AOA says or do
> something now? If I should something now, what should I do?
>
> Do you see a bottom end overhaul in my near future?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Robin Hou
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "carmine pecoraro" <aeroauto(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Bad news from AOA |
Do like they say and keep flying. Cut open the filter and inspect for metal.
Is your oil filler cap very rusty? If so clean it after every flight. It
will deposit rust in the crankcase.
cheers carmine pecoraro
>From: ROBINFLY(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>To: beech-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Beech-List: Bad news from AOA
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:53:25 EST
>
>
>Just received my AOA oil analysis report. My last report had a high iron
>value (66 ppm), and th