Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ad
August 08, 2001 - September 12, 2001
unfortunately) we lined up on the center line on 11R, and after a thumbs up
from mom, blasted off with a climbing right turnout. The thermals may not
have been coming off the runway, but *man* was it bumpy shortly after we got
the gear up. Bad timing. Ya see, 680E doesn't have air conditioning and
after sitting on the ground for 15 min. waiting to take off, it was more
than a bit steamy in the cabin. What's worse mom forgot to take her
dramamine...the results were predictable.
The bumps stayed with us all the way to 10.5. Good thing mom brought a big
plastic bag. Finally, about a half an hour into the flight the chop quit
and the cabin "fresh air" was taking effect. The sweat off mom's brow had
evaporated and she was drifting off into the post motion sickness daze.
I had just cracked the celophane on my turkey sandwich when all of the
sudden, "Bear, there's a wasp under your seat!" "What?!" "Yeah, I just saw
a big yellow wasp go under your seat," said mom.
Just as I turned around in front of me to look down, THERE IT WAS! What I
thought was just the fresh air blowing on my right leg was actually a wasp
the size of Montana flying/crawling up my leg! This thing was right out of
a "Lost World" script!
As my blood pressure went throught the roof and I'm gasping for air
(consider for a second I am highly allergic to bees and wasps...), I cocked
my left middle finger against my thumb preparing to flick that little
f**cker into oblivion. He must have seen it coming because just as I fired
the first round, he jumped a little further up my leg as the nail of my left
middle finger whizzed by his stinger laden tail. No sooner than I let out
an "OHH, SH**" did I see his little deriere pushing it's way past my leg
hairs to inflict immence pain with his jurassic ass.
But his gloating cost him as I quickly reloaded and fired a second salvo
with my left bird finger. This time it found it's mark. "How's that for a
catapult ride, mother F'er!!!" The yellow peckerhead got the ride of his
life right into the carpet on the left sidewall next to the right seat...and
stuck without even a flintch!
The bogey dispatched I was happy to find that the aircraft was trimmed well
and no significant turbulence had put us into a graveyard spiral. As I
began breathing again with my heart beat becoming less visible underneath my
shirt, I refastened my seatbelt as a laughing voice came over the intercom,
"I thought for a minute that I was going to have to land this darned thing!"
"Me too!" I replied.
The rest of the trip was spent manuvering around the desert thunder boomers
and making sure my mom was going to survive. After putting down at SNA,
mom's first flight with me had thankfully come to a close without further
incident.
In retrospect, this flight seems like it might be a part of aviation
history. Though severly outmatched in both firepower and turning ability,
this may be the first recored downing of a Hornet by an Aero Commander.
Looks like the F/A-18E *is* a needed upgrade.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Bandit! 12 o'clock low! RESEND |
I sent this from the wrong mailbox!
After flying up to Morris' place, over the coastal range to Watsonville,
then back down to SNA/John Wayne airport via the coastal route on a crystal
clear day, I made my way down to Arizona for some business and to pick up my
mother in Tucson.
The day began with a short flight from DVT in Phoenix north to Prescott.
With building cumulus rising above the high desert floor and the morning sun
painting the numerous rock formations in the area I shot my first short
approach...full flaps, 17" and a 30 degree bank from abeam the threshold.
680E came around like she was on rails and touched down at the captain's
bars with her nose proudly in the air until the wings would no longer carry
it. My first true greaser in the AC.
With business finished in Prescott, I blasted out of Love field just ahead
of the approaching build-ups for the 50 min. flight down to Tucson Int'l.
It was to be my mom's first flight in 680E.
At *only* 103 degrees, the Tucson tarmac was not producing the boiling gas
tornadoes I had experienced on the runway a few weeks earlier in Phoenix.
After watching a flight of 4 F-16's depart (minus afterburner,
unfortunately) we lined up on the center line on 11R, and after a thumbs up
from mom, blasted off with a climbing right turnout. The thermals may not
have been coming off the runway, but *man* was it bumpy shortly after we got
the gear up. Bad timing. Ya see, 680E doesn't have air conditioning and
after sitting on the ground for 15 min. waiting to take off, it was more
than a bit steamy in the cabin. What's worse mom forgot to take her
dramamine...the results were predictable.
The bumps stayed with us all the way to 10.5. Good thing mom brought a big
plastic bag. Finally, about a half an hour into the flight the chop quit
and the cabin "fresh air" was taking effect. The sweat off mom's brow had
evaporated and she was drifting off into the post motion sickness daze.
I had just cracked the celophane on my turkey sandwich when all of the
sudden, "Bear, there's a wasp under your seat!" "What?!" "Yeah, I just saw
a big yellow wasp go under your seat," said mom.
Just as I turned around in front of me to look down, THERE IT WAS! What I
thought was just the fresh air blowing on my right leg was actually a wasp
the size of Montana flying/crawling up my leg! This thing was right out of
a "Lost World" script!
As my blood pressure went throught the roof and I'm gasping for air
(consider for a second I am highly allergic to bees and wasps...), I cocked
my left middle finger against my thumb preparing to flick that little
f**cker into oblivion. He must have seen it coming because just as I fired
the first round, he jumped a little further up my leg as the nail of my left
middle finger whizzed by his stinger laden tail. No sooner than I let out
an "OHH, SH**" did I see his little deriere pushing it's way past my leg
hairs to inflict immence pain with his jurassic ass.
But his gloating cost him as I quickly reloaded and fired a second salvo
with my left bird finger. This time it found it's mark. "How's that for a
catapult ride, mother F'er!!!" The yellow peckerhead got the ride of his
life right into the carpet on the left sidewall next to the right seat...and
stuck without even a flintch!
The bogey dispatched I was happy to find that the aircraft was trimmed well
and no significant turbulence had put us into a graveyard spiral. As I
began breathing again with my heart beat becoming less visible underneath my
shirt, I refastened my seatbelt as a laughing voice came over the intercom,
"I thought for a minute that I was going to have to land this darned thing!"
"Me too!" I replied.
The rest of the trip was spent manuvering around the desert thunder boomers
and making sure my mom was going to survive. After putting down at SNA,
mom's first flight with me had thankfully come to a close without further
incident.
In retrospect, this flight seems like it might be a part of aviation
history. Though severly outmatched in both firepower and turning ability,
this may be the first recored downing of a Hornet by an Aero Commander.
Looks like the F/A-18E *is* a needed upgrade.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bandit! 12 o'clock low! |
Bandit! 12 o'clock low!Mighty Tropical Storm Barry (or am I confused again?),
Your eloquence is astounding, both in descriptiveness and verbosity. At the risk
of a serious backlash, I daresay that you give our good Capt. Jimbob a run for
his money in recounting your aerial adventures. As is true through history,
you have triumphed against great odds simply out of necessity and a willingness
to fight. The history books are filled with exploits of men as undaunted and
couageous as yourself.
Interestingly, I was rudely surprised last Sunday afternoon. As I climbed out of
SAC through 8.5 bound for home (PAO), there at 2 o'clock and 9" was an enemy
hornet...the first I'd seen at such close proximity in my limited flying career.
Alas, the story ends there...the stealth equipment of 353CC must have proven
too much, as the hornet evidently lost radar lock and was condemned to the
Hell of Heater Ductwork. A diving turn to the defroster (lining up for a nose-to-nose
shot, I imagine), and I never saw that hornet again (thankfully). On one
level I was preparing for the embarassment of being the first TCFG member to
go down from a sting, and on the other hand, all I could hear was the voice
of my primary instructor saying "no matter what.....FLY THE AIRPLANE."
Upon landing at PAO, SAR (OK, me) made a sweep up front and found the offending
(and sun-cooked--dead) hornet nestled between the windshield and glareshield.
Not exactly a combat kill a la Barry, but a victory nonetheless.
Score TCFG 2, Black-n-Yellow Air Force 0. Aero Commanders RULE.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: Deborah Looman
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 9:48 PM
Subject: Bandit! 12 o'clock low!
After flying up to Morris' place, over the coastal range to Watsonville, then
back down to SNA/John Wayne airport via the coastal route on a crystal clear
day, I made my way down to Arizona for some business and to pick up my mother
in Tucson.
The day began with a short flight from DVT in Phoenix north to Prescott. With
building cumulus rising above the high desert floor and the morning sun painting
the numerous rock formations in the area I shot my first short approach...full
flaps, 17" and a 30 degree bank from abeam the threshold. 680E came around
like she was on rails and touched down at the captain's bars with her nose
proudly in the air until the wings would no longer carry it. My first true greaser
in the AC.
With business finished in Prescott, I blasted out of Love field just ahead of
the approaching build-ups for the 50 min. flight down to Tucson Int'l. It was
to be my mom's first flight in 680E.
At *only* 103 degrees, the Tucson tarmac was not producing the boiling gas tornadoes
I had experienced on the runway a few weeks earlier in Phoenix. After
watching a flight of 4 F-16's depart (minus afterburner, unfortunately) we lined
up on the center line on 11R, and after a thumbs up from mom, blasted off
with a climbing right turnout. The thermals may not have been coming off the
runway, but *man* was it bumpy shortly after we got the gear up. Bad timing.
Ya see, 680E doesn't have air conditioning and after sitting on the ground for
15 min. waiting to take off, it was more than a bit steamy in the cabin. What's
worse mom forgot to take her dramamine...the results were predictable.
The bumps stayed with us all the way to 10.5. Good thing mom brought a big plastic
bag. Finally, about a half an hour into the flight the chop quit and the
cabin "fresh air" was taking effect. The sweat off mom's brow had evaporated
and she was drifting off into the post motion sickness daze.
I had just cracked the celophane on my turkey sandwich when all of the sudden,
"Bear, there's a wasp under your seat!" "What?!" "Yeah, I just saw a big yellow
wasp go under your seat," said mom.
Just as I turned around in front of me to look down, THERE IT WAS! What I thought
was just the fresh air blowing on my right leg was actually a wasp the size
of Montana flying/crawling up my leg! This thing was right out of a "Lost
World" script!
As my blood pressure went throught the roof and I'm gasping for air (consider
for a second I am highly allergic to bees and wasps...), I cocked my left middle
finger against my thumb preparing to flick that little f**cker into oblivion.
He must have seen it coming because just as I fired the first round, he jumped
a little further up my leg as the nail of my left middle finger whizzed
by his stinger laden tail. No sooner than I let out an "OHH, SH**" did I see
his little deriere pushing it's way past my leg hairs to inflict immence pain
with his jurassic ass.
But his gloating cost him as I quickly reloaded and fired a second salvo with
my left bird finger. This time it found it's mark. "How's that for a catapult
ride, mother F'er!!!" The yellow peckerhead got the ride of his life right
into the carpet on the left sidewall next to the right seat...and stuck without
even a flintch!
The bogey dispatched I was happy to find that the aircraft was trimmed well and
no significant turbulence had put us into a graveyard spiral. As I began breathing
again with my heart beat becoming less visible underneath my shirt, I
refastened my seatbelt as a laughing voice came over the intercom, "I thought
for a minute that I was going to have to land this darned thing!" "Me too!"
I replied.
The rest of the trip was spent manuvering around the desert thunder boomers and
making sure my mom was going to survive. After putting down at SNA, mom's
first flight with me had thankfully come to a close without further incident.
In retrospect, this flight seems like it might be a part of aviation history.
Though severly outmatched in both firepower and turning ability, this may be
the first recored downing of a Hornet by an Aero Commander. Looks like the F/A-18E
*is* a needed upgrade.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bandit! 12 o'clock low! |
GREAT STORY BARRY............... Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bandit! 12 o'clock low! |
In a message dated 8/9/01 12:57:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
>
Sounds like the Commanders are "two for two" jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bandit! 12 o'clock low! |
The score for all you hornet killers isnt exactly TCFG 2, Bandits 0
My new plane came with a story of being knocked out of the sky from 21,000' by
some muddaubers. They apparently filled the fuel vents with mud up and out of
sight which allowed the plane to achieve altitude before a double flame out it
was being flown by an apparently skilled pilot who deadsticked it with minimal
damage. I think Keith and Barry have more of the specifics than I do but the
true score is TCFG 2, Bugs 1
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: whiteslave2(at)home.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Bandit! 12 o'clock low!
GREAT STORY BARRY............... Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Mud Daubbers - 1 |
In a message dated 08/09/01 08:07:57 Pacific Daylight Time,
mdcmd@ms-online.com writes:
> My new plane came with a story of being knocked out of the sky from 21,000'
> by some muddaubers. They apparently filled the fuel vents with mud up and
> out of sight which allowed the plane to achieve altitude before a double
>
True!
N414C was en route from Tucson, Arizona to Oshkosh. With some reasonable
amount of fuel on board indicated, both engines quit from fuel starvation.
(Note: not fuel exhaustion)
The pilot set up for a dead-stick landing at a small airport, spiraled down
in a text book perfect set-up ... and was completely screwed when the gear
came down instantly!
Yes! He had read the manual and noted it was suggested that it took 12
seconds for gear to come down with a hydraulic failure. In this case, there
was no hydraulic failure, plus, the pneumatic system works really well.
So, now, gear is down and locked -- way too soon -- if you can imagine such a
thing -- and his glide planning is shot to hell.
He sets up on an empty field that's been graded for construction, looks
perfect for an off-airport landing and just prior to touchdown, an earth
mover or some other heavy construction equipment turns from its path, right
across his "landing strip."
This forced a 90 degree turn, into the furrowed field next to the graded,
smooth lot and the result was a collapsed nose gear. Not much else.
The aircraft was lifted and moved to the (very) nearby airport and 2 days
later was on its way to Dakota Aero for repairs.
For the skeptics: There were passengers on board this flight and although I
did not see it, most of this event was video taped, including the instrument
panel, showing the fuel remaining on the gauge.
Moral of the story: if you live in mud daubber country, cover your fuel vents
as well as everything else. The clog was so far up inside the fuel vent
lines, it was not dectable (without a bore scope).
Now, all this being said, what I really want to know is this who is
"whiteslave2" that Barry first filed his Hornet report under. Is there
something you'd like to share with the rest of us, Mr. Hancock? Kind of
weird call sign for a fighter pilot ...
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mud Daubbers - 1 |
HI KIDS...............
Well, I to have a "Bee" story, but not Commander related. Want
to hear it?? Good.
It was my first year flying AG and I was the proud pilot of a "paper
pilot killer" or Piper Super Cub with a belly tank. I was flying for a fine
old gentleman in Kansas. We always used roads as our runways, so to length
was never a problem, landing with a full load of spray can however be
challenging.
I had just taken off and was staggering out when a huge bumble bee
cruised past my ear. I heard him!! He was big enough to need an "N" number
and made about three circuits before landing on the spray pressure gauge
mounted on top if the instrument panel. He then just stared at me with all
those thousands of eyes.
I carefully removed my ball cap and raising it into the air, then
froze. A little voice whispered to me "now jimbob, this is a very big bee
and I think you should ether kill it or leave it alone, you really dont want
to make him mad, are you sure you can kill it?????????????"
Discretion being the better part of valor, I reluctantly landed
straight ahead on the miles of endless hiway. Throughout the landing, he
just sat there. Once stopped, I carefully exited the airplane and then
proceeded to beat the farts out him. I missed and he flew merrily away.
Man, was I glad I didn't try that at 200 feet in a loaded airplane!! As it
was we both survived jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mud Daubbers - 1 |
In a message dated 8/9/01 2:09:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I had just taken off and was staggering out when a huge bumble bee
cruised past my ear. I heard him!! He was big enough to need an "N" number
and >>
While flying a Stearman many years ago -- too many --- a bee got trapped in
the side of my leather helmet right beside my temple.
I spoke nicely to him and when I got on the ground - took off my helmet and -
he - or she departed. Did not want to deal with a bee sting while flying.
Also, did not want to take the chance of extricating that bee while in the
air.
As an aside, my "new" AC500A, Colemill was delivered on Saturday July 14th.
It has been in the shop since. Will not be ready for the "flyin". A major
dissappointment.
Jim Furlong
________________________________________________________________________________
My new ride has a Collins ANS-351 RNAV. It now works but I have no manual. Anyone
have one?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Restoration Project ? |
Hi gang!
The Quonset Air Museum were donated an old Model 680, serial 432-105 a few
years back, N2100M.
Rick Alexander, who used to work for Rockwell's publicity people, tells me
it hadn't flown for about 20 years, and the Museum are considering trading
it for a military aircraft, or may otherwise dispose of it.
If anyone wants a restoration candidate, this could be one?
See it on their web-site at:
http://users.ids.net/~qam/Museum%20Aircraft%20Index/Aircraft%20Spec's/AC680.html
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Wow, been pretty quiet around here lately. Guess that we've
discussed just about everything about Commanders of interest?
Well, the flyin is just around the corner. I'm looking forward
to meeting many of you. From what I'm hearing, it looks like
there should be a pretty impressive turnout!
Any of you last-minute undecided stragglers need to git yer tails
in gear an get signed up with JB.
Since I'm just rambling, I'll share a few other topics:
I now declare myself to be a propane tractor guru. Over the
last few days, I have been attempting to resurect a dead M&M
tractor which I inherited. I had no knowledge whatsoever of
propane systems and was unable to find anyone to overhaul what
I had. Well, me being who I am, I decided just to tear the
whole thing apart and see if I could figure out how it was
supposed to work. I can tell you that you can fabricate all
diaphrams (from innertubes) and all gaskets and other widgets
successfully if needed. She now purrrrrs like a kitten. That
HUGE old 6-banger is a sweet motor.
On another topic, our friends on the other side of the planet
(who like to crash into our airplanes and hold our people hostage)
have been pretty successful at damaging the internet. The "code
red worm" is causing vastly more financial damage than I would have
believed. The receive light on my home cable modem is on almost
continuous and I have 75% saturation of my home network even with
no computers on just due to the worm's attempts to thrash the net.
The Aerocommander.com server which is connected via a T1 link is
taking several hundred attacks per second! Fortunately, I have
no microsoft products online so I'm basicly immune to any
potential for break-in, but it certainly toasts my cookies to
see that I'm paying $2000/month in bandwidth which is being
ravaged by vandals! Anyway, at this time you will see a slow
down of the web site as well as some delay in getting email out
to the chatlist. Until we can get all the idiots in the world
running Microsoft's web servers to patch up the gaping holes in
their security, this is likely to continue for a while.
For those of you still using MS Outlook, be aware that there are
several new viruses that could hit you pretty hard. Make sure you
have all of the "features" in Outlook turned off please! I've
been filtering out hundreds of viruses a day from the chatlist
over the last week which are being auto-sent from folks running
outlook without their knowledge. My appologies for letting a few
slip through, but I can't "police" the list 24x7. The best
suggestion is to use just about _anything_ other than Outlook.
'nuff rambles for now :-)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
Well, well.
Landed at Truckee (KTRK) today and there on the ramp were 3 Turbo Commanders
parked in a row.
N690AR, s/n 11155, a 690A
N364WA, s/n 11439, a 690B with a fresh SB218 patch (kind of late at this pont
in history for that, I'd think)
N75U, s/n 11218, a dash 10'd and Q-tipped 690A
Wonder if this was just coincidence, or, if these guys got together and had
their own Fly-In.
Nice to see them side by side, in any event.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
HI KEITH.....
Did you take pix for Barry with your cardboard camera?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com> |
Oh good some activity,
I was beginning to wonder if my email was working. Does anybody know the scedule
for the "Fly-in"? I think it was asked earlier, but didn't see an answer.
I was planning on coming in on the 16th, but may have to wait until Friday.
Also, I noted fire mentioned in the 685's fuel lines. Four out of five sold by
Aero Air? Whats the deal? I'll be sure to replace mine annually.
And lastly, Clark if you out there can you call me @ HM:843-651-1195 or WK:843-357-3199
or eM: mrpoulin27(at)aol.com. Thanks!
See y'all on the 17th!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com wrote:
> Does anybody know the scedule for the "Fly-in"? I think it was asked earlier,
but didn't see an answer.
> I was planning on coming in on the 16th, but may have to wait until Friday.
Mark,
The flyin is Aug 24-26 at HIO. I'll let JB fill in the day-to-day
details.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI MARK AND KIDS..........
I apologize for the late send on the agenda. I will have one in
the mail Monday to all but here is the short answer. Fri (24th) will be an
arrival day. We will have a lunch/dinner BBQ and corn roast that afternoon
and eve. There is a great grassy area where we can lie to each other about
Commanders. It should be a great time to relax.
Sat (25th) will be a full day of seminars with Jeff from TCAC,
Morris, Dick Wartinger, Dick Mccoon and others. There will be a lunch and a
time reminiscing with Swede Ralston about his 46 years selling and flying
Commanders. I have a special award for him from the TCFG. The afternoon
will end with a roundtable featuring many of the above speakers, in front of
a Commander, so you can point to something you always wanted to know about
and get an answer.
Sunday (26th) will start with a cont breakfast and then a fun flight
to Arlington and a special factory tour. You can ask to have the records for
your airplane pulled and you can hold the "birth certificate" for your
airplane. We will then fly to Friday Harbor, walk to town for a no-host
lunch at the Downrigger. It is a great spot with a view of the ferry and
seaplanes landing. That will be the official end of the activities.
Sorry for the silence, I have really been swamped with flying the
biplane but will get the conformation and agenda to everyone Monday.
I NEED A RIDE FOR TWO FROM THE LONGBEACH CA. AREA. CAN ANYONE HELP?? LET ME
KNOW ASAP. Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Gas prices at 0F8 |
Milt - FYI they just lowered 100LL prices again here.
We're now at $1.80 /gal. Looks like a good time to fill
your ship up! :-)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.........
Forgot to tell you about the evening activities. There will be
a steak dinner in the hangar at 6:30 on Sat eve followed by a birthday
celebration for the 520. I have a 50s DJ to play great music (not to loud)
and we will have a nice evening in the hangar surrounded by Commanders. jb
Ladies. I have a couple of you signed up for the shopping trip, any
others??? Please let me know so my Lovely Bride can plan. Thanks!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 8/12/01 9:04:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Ladies. I have a couple of you signed up for the shopping trip, any
others??? Please let me know so my Lovely Bride can plan. Thanks!! jb
>>
Jim --- shopping trip where?????
Jim Furlong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 8/12/2001 10:14:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Furlong5
writes:
>
> Jim --- shopping trip where?????
HI JIM.
Good question. Sue plans to take the ladies to the Saturday
market in downtown PDX. It is a great place and you can find home made items
next to name brand merchandise. There is a lot of different food choices
there and one can get a feel for our community. Thanks for asking. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> Forgot to tell you about the evening activities.
> I have a couple of you signed up for the shopping trip
Jim,
How far is the hotel from the airport (or where-ever we're all
meeting)? Does it happen to have a pool?
My spousal unit is trying to schedule time Sat to visit with a
friend in the area so we don't know if she'll be attending the
shopping trip yet. Do you have a schedule for that? (ie: depart/
arrive times)
Milt - I think you mentioned that you need to depart fairly
early Sunday - is that correct?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 8/12/01 12:13:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
Chris et al,
I'll try to help JB if I can. I don't know at which hotel you are staying
but the Hallmark - right across from HIO - does have a pool.
Denise and I have a home on Main Street - 1.5 mi from HIO and know the area
so will help any way we can.
Jim Furlong
<< How far is the hotel from the airport (or where-ever we're all
meeting)? Does it happen to have a pool?
My spousal unit is trying to schedule time Sat to visit with a
friend in the area so we don't know if she'll be attending the
shopping trip yet. Do you have a schedule for that? (ie: depart/
arrive times)
Milt - I think you mentioned that you need to depart fairly
early Sunday - is that correct?
Chris >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
In a message dated 08/11/01 10:04:34 Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
> Did you take pix for Barry with your cardboard camera??
Uhhhhh. Ummmmmm. Errrrrrr. Well, no ....
BUT! Mike Macosko did call me and tip me off that you broadcast this
humiliating reminder/request and I did buy a disposable camera, went to
Truckee airport 6 hours prior to departure (much to the pouting of my young
copilot) just to shoot the pix.
And naturally, they'd already gone.
At least now I have that silly little camera on board.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gas prices at 0F8 |
Chris:
I'm stuck at DCA. "Signature-FBO"
The weather this evening consists of Hail and Thunder Storms from DCA to
RMG... Rome, Ga.
As for gas, $3.09 per gallon.
I guess the guy who just departed in the $210,000 Bentley can afford it with
no problem.
Proud to say that I'm sitting in the pilot's lounge with my wonderful wife
and three
lovely daughter watching a $11,000 "big Screen" TV.
Wow, I never dreamed I would go from a $3,500 Tri-Pacer to visiting with the
King...Seem like yesterday we were all flying around following roads to the
next town...
Now we file direct to the next country...
See you guys and gals in HIO.
Gary Tillman
Ps. This is the first time in 20 years that I've filed IFR for immeditate
departure, and
within 15 minutes canncelled the flight...The upto date radar does not
lie...FlySafe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
Jim et al,
I'm in Southern CA this week and in Los Altos next. I called Denise today
and she would be happy to help host the women coming on the trip. Hillsboro
is a quaint little town. As I said there is a Saturday market in the
morning, most of the buildings in the town were built at the turn of the
century and there are a number of antique shops. All of this is within 1.5
mi of HIO. The Pharmacy in town has been around since 1892 and still has an
old soda fountain.
Surrounding Hillsboro is an abundance of farm land with beautiful drives that
are all close. There are also a number of vineyards that have tasting rooms
open to the public. Just let us know what the women would like to do and
Denise will do her best to help.
Jim Furlong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Well, we've had about a half-dozen new folks sign up to
the mail list over the last week.
Welcome aboard! Y'all take a moment to introduce yourselves
(and your airplanes if you own).
For the newbies:
I'm Chris Schuermann (Tulsa,OK). I operate the mail list
and the web site (www.aerocommander.com). I'm a rabid
aviation enthusiast. My current steed is a Bellanca Turbo
Viking although I owned a Commander 520 for about 6 years and
am shopping for another Commander currently.
Jim Metzger (aka Capt Jimbob) is the head cheeze of the
Twin Commander Flight Group (TCFG). The TCFG is a paid
membership type group which supports owners of Commanders.
If you're an owner or are simply looking for expertise to
learn more about Twin Commanders, I strongly urge you to
join the Flight Group.
Contact:
Jim Metzger
Twin Commander Flight Group
38205 se70th
Washougal WA 98671
(360) 835-1090
email: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Also, the TCFG is having a flyin Aug 24-26 at Hillsboro OR.
It promises to be a great time with plenty of fine food as well
as discussions by some serious Commander gurus! Cost is
$100/head and you'll need to contact Jim ASAP to make arrangments
if you have not already done so. Further info available on the
web site.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Progress of SoloSpirit - FYI |
Another aviator; another adventurer.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: SoloSpirit List <sololist(at)solospirit.wustl.edu>
To: SoloSpirit List Subscriber
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 4:12 PM
Subject: [sololist] Update from Mission Control at Washington University in
St. Louis
>
>
> 12-hour Summary
>
> Solo Spirit: Approaching South America
>
some 600
> miles in the last 12 hours, Fossett is nearing the end of his flight over
the
> Pacific Ocean as he approaches Chile. Passing Easter Island earlier
today,
> Fossett is headed toward the island of San Felix, which is about 500 miles
(805
> kilometers) off the Chilean coast. Fossett is expected to reach South
America
> Tuesday after daybreak.
>
> Today was Fossett's fifth day over water and his eighth day in the air.
Since
> launching on August 4, Solo Spirit has flown approximately 9,200 miles.
Mission
> Control reports that Fossett has been monitoring winds at various
altitudes in
> search of one that would speed the pace of his around-the-globe mission.
He has
> completed nearly 40 percent of the total miles, although at his present
pace, he
> will exceed the two-week journey originally projected.
>
> In the meantime, Fossett is approaching the second-longest
around-the-world solo
> flight distance record. In January 1997, he set the solo balloon world
distance
> record of 10,361 miles. And in August 1998, he beat his own record by
traveling
> 14,236 miles.
>
> Fossett is still upbeat as good weather and a well-functioning balloon
help him
> continue.
>
>
> For more information on the flight, please visit our Web page at
> http://solospirit.wustl.edu.
>
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to sololist as: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
leave-sololist-8053P(at)solospirit.wustl.edu
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 8/12/2001 12:13:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> Jim,
> How far is the hotel from the airport (or where-ever we're all
> meeting)? Does it happen to have a pool?
The motel is less than a mile from the airport and yes, it does have a nice
pool. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
Barry will love you . jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Restoration Project ? |
In a message dated 8/10/01 5:09:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk writes:
<<
http://users.ids.net/~qam/Museum%20Aircraft%20Index/Aircraft%20Spec's/AC680.ht
ml >>
Hey Chris!! Isn't this the airplane from one of your old factory brochures
on your website??
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
In a message dated 08/12/01 20:58:31 Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
> Barry will love you .
It's a mutual love affair. In fact, if I were able to attend the Fly-In, we
were going to get married there.
It will have to wait now, I'm afraid. (Did I give a away the surprize, Sir
Barry?)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gas prices at 0F8 |
Good move to cancel Gary!!!
I was through there today as well.
I was holiding in the DC-9 Trying to get into Philly. I had left Tamp in an
airplane with no AUX tank. I could have really used that extra 4000 lbs.
today!! I declared Min Fuel (Guys and Girl dont EVER be scared to say those
words. It only means that you can accept no further delays. It is nothing
like a LOW FUEL EMERGENCY where everyone has to get out way and you are
instantly #1 for the closest runway.)
My 2:20 trip turned into 3:30 and I was OUT-O-PUSH WATER!!!! I told the
Center that I had 10 left in holding untill diverting to D.C. for fuel and
they gave clearance to shoot the apprch. 8 minutes later. I WAS 2 MINS FROM
THE "E" Word. If you fly for a living you will find yourself in this
situation 3-5 times a year maybe. It's not fun and can be avoided by just
saying "NO" (to taking off that is.) Finally got home to hot 'Lanta (That
ATLANTA for you guys who put Limes in your beer.) I was greeted at the gate
by none other than our very own TCFG member Jim Crunkleton. He took my jet
(now his jet, we only get to keep for so long) to Orlando.
But the good news is that he told today I can become partner in his 520 soon.
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
TASTING ROOMS?? DID YOU SAY TASTING ROOMS>>>
Better look out!!! From what I have gathered about Big Al he's going to want
to go there. (Do they allow "NO NAME" in the tasting rooms for "Comparrison"
test only??)
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
Well I must say......You guys are starting to scare me now!!!!
Or was that the "NO-NAME Talkin'???
I'd marry Crunk if he were up to it!!!!
Just to get to use his hangar/house/Fuel Farm/2-Twin-Commnaders/RV-8/Private
strip//////////////////(It goes on and on!!)
NOT!!!!! Better just keep my partnerships in Commanders stay out of Divorce
Court.
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
Is this some kinda Left Coast thing?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Cc: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In
In a message dated 08/12/01 20:58:31 Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
Barry will love you . jb
It's a mutual love affair. In fact, if I were able to attend the Fly-In, we
were going to get married there.
It will have to wait now, I'm afraid. (Did I give a away the surprize, Sir
Barry?)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pretty quiet |
Hey Chris - do you work for Oracle or Sun Microsystems, or what??? You
sound like that jerk Joel Klein from the DOJ - lighten up a little, huh?
Jim Jorgensen
-----Original Message-----
From:
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com [mailto:chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com]
Sent:
Friday, August 10, 2001 6:47 PM
To:
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject:
pretty quiet
Wow, been pretty quiet around here lately. Guess that we've
discussed just about everything about Commanders of interest?
Well, the flyin is just around the corner. I'm looking forward
to meeting many of you. From what I'm hearing, it looks like
there should be a pretty impressive turnout!
Any of you last-minute undecided stragglers need to git yer tails
in gear an get signed up with JB.
Since I'm just rambling, I'll share a few other topics:
I now declare myself to be a propane tractor guru. Over the
last few days, I have been attempting to resurect a dead M&M
tractor which I inherited. I had no knowledge whatsoever of
propane systems and was unable to find anyone to overhaul what
I had. Well, me being who I am, I decided just to tear the
whole thing apart and see if I could figure out how it was
supposed to work. I can tell you that you can fabricate all
diaphrams (from innertubes) and all gaskets and other widgets
successfully if needed. She now purrrrrs like a kitten. That
HUGE old 6-banger is a sweet motor.
On another topic, our friends on the other side of the planet
(who like to crash into our airplanes and hold our people hostage)
have been pretty successful at damaging the internet. The "code
red worm" is causing vastly more financial damage than I would have
believed. The receive light on my home cable modem is on almost
continuous and I have 75% saturation of my home network even with
no computers on just due to the worm's attempts to thrash the net.
The Aerocommander.com server which is connected via a T1 link is
taking several hundred attacks per second! Fortunately, I have
no microsoft products online so I'm basicly immune to any
potential for break-in, but it certainly toasts my cookies to
see that I'm paying $2000/month in bandwidth which is being
ravaged by vandals! Anyway, at this time you will see a slow
down of the web site as well as some delay in getting email out
to the chatlist. Until we can get all the idiots in the world
running Microsoft's web servers to patch up the gaping holes in
their security, this is likely to continue for a while.
For those of you still using MS Outlook, be aware that there are
several new viruses that could hit you pretty hard. Make sure you
have all of the "features" in Outlook turned off please! I've
been filtering out hundreds of viruses a day from the chatlist
over the last week which are being auto-sent from folks running
outlook without their knowledge. My appologies for letting a few
slip through, but I can't "police" the list 24x7. The best
suggestion is to use just about _anything_ other than Outlook.
'nuff rambles for now :-)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pretty quiet |
res00rbl wrote:
>
> Hey Chris - do you work for Oracle or Sun Microsystems, or what??? You
> sound like that jerk Joel Klein from the DOJ - lighten up a little, huh?
> Jim Jorgensen
Jim,
I'm just a guy who has created his own small business with my own
money and lots of 100 hour work weeks. I sold just about everything
I owned to start this business including my car, my airplane, and
my house. If I sound a bit "heavy", it's only due to the fact
that every time some bozo decides to try to break into my computers,
hack my networks, or steal from me it basicly ends up costing me
enough that I have no income for the month.
Frankly, I consider those actions to be right up there with any other
form of vandalism. The last time someone hacked one of my servers,
they vandalized my web site and then trashed the filesystems on several
other machines. I ended up having to borrow money to cover the
substantial expenses in overtime trying to recover from the damage as
well as lost the faith of a couple of my customers who's projects
were affected by the delays.
If that sounds like a "jerk" to you then so be it, but when someone
breaks into YOUR house someday and decides to valdalize the place
make sure to be a bit introspective about how you feel about it...
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pretty quiet |
I totally agree with you about the vandals - it's just that your mail
inferred Microsoft was to blame, somehow. Why do you think the vandals
target MSFT & Outlook - it's because they no that they can screw up many
more users with less effort. It's not the carrier's fault - it's the
hackers!
I feel bad for the economic consequences to you & thousands of others - I
just felt that it was right to blame the bad actors, and not the stage on
(in) which they are playing out their script.
Thanks again for all your hard work, Chris.
Jim Jorgensen
-----Original Message-----
From:
Chris Schuermann [mailto:chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com]
Sent:
Monday, August 13, 2001 7:58 AM
To:
res00rbl; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject:
Re: pretty quiet
res00rbl wrote:
>
> Hey Chris - do you work for Oracle or Sun Microsystems, or what???
You
> sound like that jerk Joel Klein from the DOJ - lighten up a little, huh?
> Jim Jorgensen
Jim,
I'm just a guy who has created his own small business with my own
money and lots of 100 hour work weeks. I sold just about everything
I owned to start this business including my car, my airplane, and
my house. If I sound a bit "heavy", it's only due to the fact
that every time some bozo decides to try to break into my computers,
hack my networks, or steal from me it basicly ends up costing me
enough that I have no income for the month.
Frankly, I consider those actions to be right up there with any other
form of vandalism. The last time someone hacked one of my servers,
they vandalized my web site and then trashed the filesystems on several
other machines. I ended up having to borrow money to cover the
substantial expenses in overtime trying to recover from the damage as
well as lost the faith of a couple of my customers who's projects
were affected by the delays.
If that sounds like a "jerk" to you then so be it, but when someone
breaks into YOUR house someday and decides to valdalize the place
make sure to be a bit introspective about how you feel about it...
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pretty quiet |
And it's probably wise not to publicize what goes through your mind after
discovering such a violation.
Nico
What flashes through a bug's mind after hitting a windshield?
His rear end.
----- Original Message -----
From: res00rbl <res00rbl(at)verizon.net>
To: ;
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: pretty quiet
> I totally agree with you about the vandals - it's just that your mail
> inferred Microsoft was to blame, somehow. Why do you think the vandals
> target MSFT & Outlook - it's because they no that they can screw up many
> more users with less effort. It's not the carrier's fault - it's the
> hackers!
> I feel bad for the economic consequences to you & thousands of others - I
> just felt that it was right to blame the bad actors, and not the stage on
> (in) which they are playing out their script.
> Thanks again for all your hard work, Chris.
>
> Jim Jorgensen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Schuermann [mailto:chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 7:58 AM
> To: res00rbl; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Subject: Re: pretty quiet
>
> res00rbl wrote:
> >
> > Hey Chris - do you work for Oracle or Sun Microsystems, or
what???
> You
> > sound like that jerk Joel Klein from the DOJ - lighten up a little, huh?
> > Jim Jorgensen
>
> Jim,
> I'm just a guy who has created his own small business with my own
> money and lots of 100 hour work weeks. I sold just about everything
> I owned to start this business including my car, my airplane, and
> my house. If I sound a bit "heavy", it's only due to the fact
> that every time some bozo decides to try to break into my computers,
> hack my networks, or steal from me it basicly ends up costing me
> enough that I have no income for the month.
> Frankly, I consider those actions to be right up there with any other
> form of vandalism. The last time someone hacked one of my servers,
> they vandalized my web site and then trashed the filesystems on several
> other machines. I ended up having to borrow money to cover the
> substantial expenses in overtime trying to recover from the damage as
> well as lost the faith of a couple of my customers who's projects
> were affected by the delays.
> If that sounds like a "jerk" to you then so be it, but when someone
> breaks into YOUR house someday and decides to valdalize the place
> make sure to be a bit introspective about how you feel about it...
>
> Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> > An RNCPs daughter is in love
> >
> > Susie Lee fell in love.
> > She planned to marry Joe.
> > She was so happy 'bout it all,
> > she told her Pappy so.
> >
> > Pappy told her, "Susie Gal,
> > you'll have to find another.
> > I'd just as soon yo' maw don't know,
> > but Joe is yo' half-brother."
> >
> > So Susie forgot about her Joe
> > and planned to marry Will.
> > But, after telling Pappy this,
> > he said, "There's trouble still.
> >
> > You can't marry Will, my gal,
> > and please don't tell yo' mother,
> > cause Will and Joe and several mo'
> > I know is yo' half-brother."
> >
> > But Mama knew and said "Honey Child,
> > Do what makes yo' happy.
> > Marry Will or marry Joe,
> > you ain't no kin to Pappy
> >
> >
> > End
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
CloudCraft(at)aol.com said:
>Well, well.
>Landed at Truckee (KTRK) today and there on the ramp were 3 Turbo Commanders
>parked in a row.
>N690AR, s/n 11155, a 690A
>N364WA, s/n 11439, a 690B with a fresh SB218 patch (kind of late at this
>pont in history for that, I'd think)
>N75U, s/n 11218, a dash 10'd and Q-tipped 690A
>Wonder if this was just coincidence, or, if these guys got together and had
>their own Fly-In.
>Nice to see them side by side, in any event.
>Wing Commander Gordon
I routinely fly into KTVL (South Lake Tahoe), about every weekend.
I am constently amazed on how many Cmdrs I see. (690s, 680s, 500s etc.)
This past weekend; N6253X a 680F was parked next to the Citation, 2 down
from me.
I believe it is owned by Mr. DETTMER.
(Next time your in Tahoe, give me a call 530 543-0733 and come up for a
beer/coke)
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
I figured Mr. Dettmer was someplace fun, as I was at SBP this weekend and
didn't see N6253X in her customary parking spot...
Tahoe is one of my favorite fly-in destinations as well, although I seem to
favor TRK over TVL.
Cheers,
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Sharp" <sharp.r(at)apple.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com said:
> >Well, well.
> >Landed at Truckee (KTRK) today and there on the ramp were 3 Turbo
Commanders
> >parked in a row.
> >N690AR, s/n 11155, a 690A
> >N364WA, s/n 11439, a 690B with a fresh SB218 patch (kind of late at this
> >pont in history for that, I'd think)
> >N75U, s/n 11218, a dash 10'd and Q-tipped 690A
> >Wonder if this was just coincidence, or, if these guys got together and
had
> >their own Fly-In.
> >Nice to see them side by side, in any event.
> >Wing Commander Gordon
>
> I routinely fly into KTVL (South Lake Tahoe), about every weekend.
> I am constently amazed on how many Cmdrs I see. (690s, 680s, 500s etc.)
>
> This past weekend; N6253X a 680F was parked next to the Citation, 2 down
> from me.
> I believe it is owned by Mr. DETTMER.
> (Next time your in Tahoe, give me a call 530 543-0733 and come up for a
> beer/coke)
>
> Randy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Burson <info(at)reaganfoundation.org> |
| Subject: | Ronald Reagan's 1976 Campaign |
Dear Nico,
In August 1976, then citizen Reagan challenged President
Ford for the Republican Nomination, losing the nomination by
a mere 117 votes. Twenty-five years after the contest, the
Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation is proud to host a
Reagan Forum entitled "A Revolution Revealed: The Reagan
Presidential Bid in 1976" on Wednesday, August 22nd, 2001.
Peggy Noonan, special assistant and speechwriter to
President Reagan, and Martin Anderson, Senior Policy Adviser
to President Reagan, will discuss the importance of this
campaign, what it meant to those who were there, and how it
became a model for future political bids. If you would like
to attend this event, please call 805-522-2977 for tickets.
Running the Right Way: Ronald Reagan's 1976 Campaign
By Mark Burson
It will no doubt seem odd to some that this year we
commemorate the 25th anniversary of the only election Ronald
Reagan ever lost.
But our nation's 40th President has never been measured by
the conventional means that we evaluate so many others, and
for that reason, this anniversary is better understood.
Still, it should come as no surprise that perhaps he alone
could secure a place of honor and favor from the aftermath
of a bitter election defeat.
Can you think of any candidate - for any public office - who
has ever shone brighter in defeat than the winner enjoyed in
the victory both had hoped to achieve? This is only one of
the many reasons that we consider Ronald Reagan to be one of
a kind.
In 1976, not even a full year after two successful terms as
Governor of California, Ronald Reagan challenged President
Gerald Ford for the Republican nomination. This was not an
easy decision, and one he wrestled with for many months. He
believed he would have a chance to win, but he considered
the enormity of opposing a sitting President for the
nomination of his own party. He feared that the contest, if
not successful, could cripple Ford's chances for election -
the last thing Reagan wanted to happen.
In that primary election, Reagan vigorously debated his
differences with Ford on the issues, including taxes,
spending, government regulation, the nation's infrastructure
and, especially, foreign policy. But in making the case
that he, not Ford, should be the GOP choice, he did not tear
down the other man. This deserves special mention, for it
kept faith with Ronald Reagan's famous 11th Commandment:
"Thou shalt not speak ill of any other Republican."
The battle between Reagan and Ford was a spirited one. Ford
was successful in many early primaries, but after a
surprising win in North Carolina, Ronald Reagan scored other
victories, and the contest lasted right up to the Republican
National Convention in Kansas City.
This brought the contest out of the realm of issues and
voters and into the sometimes Byzantine world of back-room
politics, jousting over the slates of uncommitted delegates
who would determine the party's nominee.
After all the ballots were tallied, Reagan narrowly lost the
nomination, gaining 1,070 delegates to Ford's 1,187. Had
Reagan prevailed, he would have been the first candidate in
92 years to wrest the nomination from an incumbent
president.
Among loyalists to the Reagan campaign, stories abound of
delegates who pledged their support to Reagan, but then gave
in to arm-twisting and good old-fashioned political threats,
and who then threw their crucial support to Ford.
Even so, as disappointing as the outcome might have been,
Reagan did not hang this unsavory laundry out for public
view. He did not even publicly proclaim that he had been
short-changed by the process, although there is ample
evidence he felt that way.
In keeping with the unprecedented nature of these events, on
the final night of the convention, after Ford delivered
well-received remarks, a spontaneous demonstration ensued
for Reagan to address the assembled convention crowd. The
newly nominated Ford had no alternative but to ask Reagan to
come down to the platform.
In that moment, the hardball political atmosphere of the
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Recalling an English ballad he had memorized as a child,
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night to look far into the future, and about those a hundred
years hence, "Will they say we kept them free?"
Presidential historian Michael Beschloss has observed that
"The address that everyone remembered that evening was not
Ford's, the nominee, but Reagan's, and he tended to
overshadow the person who had just gotten the Republican
nomination."
This was because Ronald Reagan spoke as he always did - from
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So when another time for choosing arrived four years later,
Ronald Reagan was swept into office as our 40th President by
a national mandate. And that triumph was due in no small
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
In a message dated 08/13/01 01:09:33 Pacific Daylight Time,
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk writes:
> Still, I'll let Keith off if he manages to use up the contents of the
> cardboard camera in the next two weeks!!
That's a pretty big order to fill ... I'll have to take lots of pix of what
ever Commander(s) get lured to Las Vegas.
Hey! That brings up a good point. Wouldn't it better to get married here,
at the Elvis Chapel of Love?
Don't forget, you're all brides's maids. The point of this is not to scare
you all off (well ... not too much) but to remind you to gather data on
Commanders you see parked, as you vist other airports or, when they visit you
home 'drome.
Sir Barry keeps a data base cross referenced by serial number and N number
and often the N numbers change and he needs to know ASAP.
Also, any obvious mods you see that you can name are appreciated.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In |
YOU TOOK A PIX WITH YOUR CARDBOARD CAMER FOR BARRY, RIGHT?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Photos of Commanders |
JB,
Do you want photos of the largest collection of 500's???
Central Air operates 38 Twin Commanders and I have seen upwards of 20 or
more on the ground at one time at MKC, Downtown Airport, Kansas City.
Do you ( or Barry) want photos of them????
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com [mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 5:07 PM
To: sharp.r(at)apple.com; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In
YOU TOOK A PIX WITH YOUR CARDBOARD CAMER FOR BARRY, RIGHT?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS...........
Yet another late registered attendee. Luis Allende will be
bringing his Shrike. It is the next to the last one built and has been in
the family in Argentina since new!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Internet connection |
Dear sirs,
This is to inform you that we have terminated your Internet connection because
1) We have no record of having an agreement with Erotic Environments;
2) The content of your Internet communications is not compatible with what we want
to associate our business with;
3) We cannot provide access to the Internet to host web sites or provide streaming
(video or audio).
If you have any questions please contact me directly at (818) 421-4089.
Nico van Niekerk
President & CEO
CyberSuperStore, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Photos of Commanders |
Hi Tylor et al!
I was in Kansas City late last year for a week, with a primary objective of
meeting John Towner, the head of Central Air. What a great guy! What an
immaculate fleet of Commanders! John told me that if someone had sat down
and designed an aeroplane suitable for his business, it would have been an
Aero Commander. He is so proud and enthusiastic about them!
The cameras were put to full use, but of course many Commanders in his
fleet were not at home when I called. So, any photos will be gratefully
received and, of course, I am more than happy to pay for any shots.
I haven't, shame on me, up-dated my photographic collection database for
about 4/5 years(!!), but there's over 5,000 prints/negatives/slides there
at the moment, and by the time I add the new ones to it, there's probably
going to be around 7,000. In fact, a guy in Australia sadly passed away
last year and earlier this year, I bought his collection of Commander
slides, being about 650.
Thanks guys, your help and support is really very much appreciated.
Kindest Regards,
Barry C.
Tylor Hall
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
cc:
13/08/2001 Subject: RE: Photos of Commanders
23:31
JB,
Do you want photos of the largest collection of 500's???
Central Air operates 38 Twin Commanders and I have seen upwards of 20 or
more on the ground at one time at MKC, Downtown Airport, Kansas City.
Do you ( or Barry) want photos of them????
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com [mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 5:07 PM
To: sharp.r(at)apple.com; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In
YOU TOOK A PIX WITH YOUR CARDBOARD CAMER FOR BARRY, RIGHT?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Great news, the list is growing and growing.
Luis' Commander (500S-3322) has just been placed on the US register as
N42ZZ, but at the moment it's showing as "registration pending", no doubt
due to a paperwork hitch. It was formerly in Argentina as LV-OAT and before
that, had the provisional marks LV-PDY new from the factory.
Hopefully, Luis will have some photographs in its Argentine marks !!
See you All next week!!!
Barry C.
YOURTCFG@aol.
com To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
cc:
13/08/2001 Subject: ONE MORE
23:59
HI KIDS...........
Yet another late registered attendee. Luis Allende will be
bringing his Shrike. It is the next to the last one built and has been in
the family in Argentina since new!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Hi All!
I'd like to echo Keith's posting - naturally!
Of real interest, are those Commanders seen derelict/abandoned around the
country. Could well be that they are still listed on the current FAA
register, in which case I'm likely to assume they are happily flying
around. Reports of any seen in poor shape or with various parts missing
etc., will be most welcome.
Of course, I know of various airframes bought by the major parts companies,
like White Industries, Dodson, Atlanta Air Salvage and Earle Aircraft. If
you have a similar facility near you, a report of any Commanders they've
got may prove useful.
Thanks!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
CloudCraft@ao
l.com To: Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk
cc: commanderchat@c2-tech.com
13/08/2001 Subject: Re: Lake Tahoe private Fly-In
23:03
In a message dated 08/13/01 01:09:33 Pacific Daylight Time,
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk writes:
Still, I'll let Keith off if he manages to use up the contents of the
cardboard camera in the next two weeks!!
That's a pretty big order to fill ... I'll have to take lots of pix of what
ever Commander(s) get lured to Las Vegas.
Hey! That brings up a good point. Wouldn't it better to get married here,
at the Elvis Chapel of Love?
Don't forget, you're all brides's maids. The point of this is not to
scare
you all off (well ... not too much) but to remind you to gather data on
Commanders you see parked, as you vist other airports or, when they visit
you
home 'drome.
Sir Barry keeps a data base cross referenced by serial number and N number
and often the N numbers change and he needs to know ASAP.
Also, any obvious mods you see that you can name are appreciated.
Wing Commander Gordon
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY
If you are not the intended recipient or employee or agent responsible for
return. Any distribution or copying of this document by anyone other than
the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. Airclaims cannot be held
responsible for any alterations made to this document, intentionally or
Airclaims Limited, Registered Office: Cardinal Point, Newall Road, Heathrow
Airport, Hounslow, Middlesex, TW6 2AS. Company Registration No. 710284
England and Wales.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Roving Reports |
In a message dated 8/14/01 2:12:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk writes:
> Of course, I know of various airframes bought by the major parts companies,
> like White Industries, Dodson, Atlanta Air Salvage and Earle Aircraft. If
> you have a similar facility near you, a report of any Commanders they've
> got may prove useful.
>
WILL DO jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
Luis (N42ZZ) is parked directly across from me at RHV.
When I get a chance I'll take some photos.
I just talked to him yesterday and his Dad is out visiting from Argentina
and having a great time in the states.
Randy
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk said:
>Great news, the list is growing and growing.
>
>Luis' Commander (500S-3322) has just been placed on the US register as
>N42ZZ, but at the moment it's showing as "registration pending", no doubt
>due to a paperwork hitch. It was formerly in Argentina as LV-OAT and before
>that, had the provisional marks LV-PDY new from the factory.
>
>Hopefully, Luis will have some photographs in its Argentine marks !!
>See you All next week!!!
>Barry C.
>HI KIDS...........
>
>Yet another late registered attendee. Luis Allende will be
>bringing his Shrike. It is the next to the last one built and has been in
>the family in Argentina since new!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
2 new fuelcaps $700
1 New fuel pump $750
New fuel hoses $1800
Avionics repairs $Ungodly amount
Left engine repair $dont know yet
Other trip expenses$ a bunch
Getting to spend a day or so with a bunch of Commander degenerates PRICELESS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI MILT.............
You cant put a price on fun!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RIDE FROM SAN DIEGO / LA |
HI KIDS....................
Still looking for a ride for two from ether San Diego or LA.
anybody? Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS................
I am amazed at how much difference little things can make. All
summer my accumulator has been a little low and I had noticed the pressure
cycling more and more. I was parked next to an FAA King air a couple of days
ago and noticed the ground crew was working on the struts
so...................
Wow, what an improvement 250psi of nitrogen will make. The flaps stay
up again for days, no more cycling in flight and the steering is even better.
It also was making a kinda rattling noise when I taxied across the grass to
my parking spot, but that is gone. Little things!
The preparation for the flyin is going well. Aero Air had two of the
three projectors I needed so that will help and Sue found a great deal on a
coffee maker so we bought one. The food is ordered and I am starting to
worry over the little things. Jim Furlong (500A) has volunteered his wife's
services to help with the shopping trip and that was greatly appreciated.
I am working on a great award for Swede Ralston. It is a lifetime
acheivmet award, and I had a hand made stained glass Commander made to mount
on a thophy base, will be really cool and he is a really cool guy.
hope all is well in "Commanderland" jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Hi gang!
If anybody attending Hillsboro will have a lap-top with them, running say
FoxPro or Access, please let me know. I'll then burn a copy of my Commander
database on a CD-ROM and bring it with me. Then if anyone wants to see the
history of a specific Commander, we can look at it.
For those who are attending, I'll bring a printed copy of your Commander's
history with me. Capt Jimbob has sent me a list of attendees, but if you
want to check with me, please do so.
Also, I mentioned yesterday that it's sometimes difficult to know whether a
Commander, although listed on the current FAA database, is actually still
around. Well, I did a trawl of my database last night and found 270
Commanders listed, which shouldn't be!
A breakdown follows:
Not built : 9
Destroyed : 105 (includes damaged beyond repair or destroyed by fire)
Exported : 71
Retired : 85
Additionally, there's another 80-odd with paperwork problems holding up
present owners being properly registered.
Add the ones whose history is surrounded in mystique through hauling white
powder around, and you can see what fun it all is, piecing things together!
I really do need to get out more.
Kindest Regards,
Barry C.
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY
If you are not the intended recipient or employee or agent responsible for
return. Any distribution or copying of this document by anyone other than
the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. Airclaims cannot be held
responsible for any alterations made to this document, intentionally or
Airclaims Limited, Registered Office: Cardinal Point, Newall Road, Heathrow
Airport, Hounslow, Middlesex, TW6 2AS. Company Registration No. 710284
England and Wales.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS...........
We have a couple more late registers. Ed and Sherry Blair will
be bringing up a 680FLP (the old "Black Bird") with its new paint and
interior. They will be leaving from Reno (I think)
Also, got my starter problem fixed. It was $40 deal and took only
about an hour, a mere stitch in time as Commanders go! It needed a new seal
at the drive end (Just like uncle Harry told me) I am amazed at the
engineering on some of these things. The starter depends on the tightness of
the seal to allow the jaws to engage the engine, I think that is crazy, but I
guise they work more often than not. New seal, no problem!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.......
Well, it looks like another small group. Jack Chappell will be
coming up with two others. I called him tonight to order up a #4 exhaust
pipe and he told me he had been planing to come but just hadn't "got around
to calling" I told him he just about ended up eating a Macdonld's burger. I
need to give the caterer the final headcount Saturday, so if anyone is coming
but hasn't let me know, PLEASE let me know. Thanks.
PS Jack has the largest inventory of old Commander parts west of the
Mississippi, call him at 909-371-7413. I have bought several bits from him
and they have all been just what he said they would be. He also owns the
last 560E built jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Ed & Sherry Blair?
Thank goodness it's not Tony & Cherie Blair - otherwise I would have
cancelled my trip !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Barry C.
YOURTCFG@aol.
com To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
cc:
16/08/2001 Subject: TWO MORE
02:22
HI KIDS...........
We have a couple more late registers. Ed and Sherry Blair will
be bringing up a 680FLP (the old "Black Bird") with its new paint and
interior. They will be leaving from Reno (I think)
Also, got my starter problem fixed. It was $40 deal and took only
about an hour, a mere stitch in time as Commanders go! It needed a new
seal
at the drive end (Just like uncle Harry told me) I am amazed at the
engineering on some of these things. The starter depends on the tightness
of
the seal to allow the jaws to engage the engine, I think that is crazy, but
I
guise they work more often than not. New seal, no problem!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
What, you would be jealous if someone else were representing the Crown
(irrespective of the quality of their representation)?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk>
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: TWO MORE
>
> Ed & Sherry Blair?
>
> Thank goodness it's not Tony & Cherie Blair - otherwise I would have
> cancelled my trip !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Barry C.
>
>
> YOURTCFG@aol.
> com To:
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> cc:
> 16/08/2001 Subject: TWO MORE
> 02:22
>
>
> HI KIDS...........
>
> We have a couple more late registers. Ed and Sherry Blair will
> be bringing up a 680FLP (the old "Black Bird") with its new paint and
> interior. They will be leaving from Reno (I think)
> Also, got my starter problem fixed. It was $40 deal and took only
> about an hour, a mere stitch in time as Commanders go! It needed a new
> seal
> at the drive end (Just like uncle Harry told me) I am amazed at the
> engineering on some of these things. The starter depends on the tightness
> of
> the seal to allow the jaws to engage the engine, I think that is crazy,
but
> I
> guise they work more often than not. New seal, no problem!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)verizon.net> |
I know how you feel, Barry. It's almost as scary as Jimbo saying a "Bill &
Hill" are attending. Sends shivers up & down the spine, doesn't it? Jim
Jorgensen
PS - They could bring Mark Rich & the cocaine dealer he pardoned, as well!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
[FWD]
Dan Brady
AC-500(250 lycs)
Based at Tiger Field Fernley NV.
775 575 6822
valbrady(at)thegrid.net
Purchased in '87 Still struggling with
ADs&Mods to make our retirement
dream come true. Spent many hrs.
thru '60s into '70s flying 520,560,560e,
680s &680e models. Also a few hrs. in
turbine. It's much harder to maintain
financial stability when you're trying to
fly for pleasure as opposed to revenue.
I'd like to hear from fellow AC lovers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New list member |
In a message dated 8/16/2001 4:39:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> Purchased in '87 Still struggling with
> ADs&Mods to make our retirement
> dream come true. Spent many hrs.
> thru '60s into '70s flying 520,560,560e,
> 680s &680e models. Also a few hrs. in
> turbine. It's much harder to maintain
> financial stability when you're trying to
> fly for pleasure as opposed to revenue.
> I'd like to hear from fellow AC lovers
HI DAN.
I really know what you mean. You just need to remember that the
airplane may be 40+ years old but in its time, it was the best corporate
chariot money could buy. These were 1959 lear jets and if you look at the
ads that Commander ran over the years, it is clear who the were selling to.
We now buy them and wonder why they can be expensive to maintain.
They are still an exotic, corporate airplane. The good news is that when you
get finished, you will have a great airplane that will last you a lifetime.
You will be treated to a level of comfort and safety that few pilots will
ever enjoy. You already know this from your past experience.
Stay tuned in to the list, we are here to help and have a ton of
experience. Good luck and hang in there. Jim Metzger (capt jimbob or jb)
Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
If you go through your first hurricane(and it fizzles out)and you then put
thirty house-plants in the back of a dooly(duelly for you new comers)then
drive for seven hours at 75.5 mph so you can at least see what it might have
looked like,you might be a RED-NECKED COMMANDER PILOT! BIG AL Hey
Gang,this move has been rough on the kid,but it's all over except getting
Lucille relocated.Truly sorry I can't come out and play,but Clark started
his training on the 717 this week and will not be through for two more
weeks.If ya'll don't mind I sure would like some photos. Happy flying to
all!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
Glad you have the move behind you, we will look forward to meeting you at
next years "east coast" event!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | nico <nico(at)insdaq.com> |
| Subject: | STRANGE COMMANDER |
----------
From:
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Sent:
Saturday, August 18, 2001 10:25 AM
To:
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject:
STRANGE COMMANDER
HI KIDS............
Made my commute to work the other day and found a strange
Commander parked in my area. It is a 1000 with what are best described as
mini torpedoes mounted on each side of the fuselage about abeam the main
gear. I cant remember the N number 808NC I think?? (Yes, I tool a picture
with my cardboard camera for Barry)
My old Commander is really running sweet, must be that steady diet of
Marvel Mystery Oil and Money I feed it!! Still leaks a some oil ! #*>##@>!
Hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com> |
Hello guys,
It looks like a "no go" with the plane. Too much going on I guess. I'll still
be arriving on Thursday evening less my plane, and friends. Sorry for the late
notice Jim.
Also, if I could bum a ride with someone the day we go to TCAC, it would be greatly
appreciated. I look forward to seeing all of you!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: STRANGE COMMANDER |
In a message dated 08/18/01 10:29:36 Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
>
>
> Made my commute to work the other day and found a strange
> Commander parked in my area. It is a 1000 with what are best described as
> mini torpedoes mounted on each side of the fuselage about abeam the main
> gear.
Not so strange, really. Those are "slipper tanks" and have been hung on 690s
through the 1000s.
They add 300 pounds of fuel or so (can't remember the exact amount), reduce
cruise speed about 10 knots. Not too bad of a trade off.
I've seen many of these -- and every once in a while, if I look closely, can
see where they've been installed and removed.
These tanks are especially useful for oceanic work, whether it be North
Atlantic, Western Pacific or Caribbean (don't ask, don't tell).
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
If it was a 500A like mine, maybe they were JATO Bottles.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: STRANGE COMMANDER |
HI KEITH........
Nice try but no cigar. These things were to small to be gas
tanks and the slipper tanks mount on the wings. These were sticking out of
the fuselage?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: STRANGE COMMANDER |
In a message dated 08/19/01 21:46:31 Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG writes:
> Nice try but no cigar. These things were to small to be gas
> tanks and the slipper tanks mount on the wings. These were sticking out of
> the fuselage??
The plot thickens.
Was the aircraft in "Restricted" category? May be a geophysical sensor
package ... or one of the FBI / DEA's Commander 1000s with SLIR.
If the latter was the case, the same bromide applies. "Don't ask, don't
tell."
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: STRANGE COMMANDER |
Hi Gang!
I think that strange Commander was N808NC and it is a Model 695A which has
been converted to a 695B, serial 96085.
It is registered to Wilmington Trust Company as Trustee, on behalf of a
German Trustor, Aero-Sensing Radarsysteme GmbH., and as far as I know, is
being operated by a UK concern, Cooper Aerial Surveys Ltd.
I know Gerry Cooper modified another of his Turbo Commanders to map by
radar, and would imagine that this Commander has now been similarly
modified. Hopefully, the cardboard camera image will confirm this to me.
But, thanks Capt Jimbob, these reports are always of interest!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
YOURTCFG@aol.
com To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
cc:
18/08/2001 Subject: STRANGE COMMANDER
18:25
HI KIDS............
Made my commute to work the other day and found a strange
Commander parked in my area. It is a 1000 with what are best described as
mini torpedoes mounted on each side of the fuselage about abeam the main
gear. I cant remember the N number 808NC I think?? (Yes, I tool a picture
with my cardboard camera for Barry)
My old Commander is really running sweet, must be that steady diet of
Marvel Mystery Oil and Money I feed it!! Still leaks a some oil ! #*>##@>!
Hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: STRANGE COMMANDER |
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> These things were to small to be
> gas tanks and the slipper tanks mount on the wings. These were sticking
> out of the fuselage?? jb
The DEA has a Commander with various "sneaky toys" including
FLIR, special night-vision cameras and some other unidentified
gadgets. Did you happen to notice if it had some odd antennas
on it?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | The Strange Commander |
Hi Gang!
OK. I've just checked with Cooper Aerial Surveys Limited, who are based at
Gamston Airport, Nottinghamshire, in England.
They do indeed operate N808NC, and it is confirmed that the pods are for
mapping by radar.
I'll try and dig out some photos I've got at home of a 690A, which if I
remember correctly is N91384, which has also got the same equipment. Again,
if I remember correctly, the pods, two one side and one the other, are
mounted on the ends of a single beam which traverses the fuselage just
behind the cockpit area, at about floor level. I'll bring the pictures with
me to Hillsboro.
Gerry Cooper tells me the definition they get is extremely good. They
couldn't mount the pods directly onto the sides of the fuselage, because
being pressurized, any small movement of the fuselage sides would have
destroyed the definition. Similar equipment has been used before, but I
understand not on a pressurized aircraft. Another 'first' for the
ubiquitous Aero Commander?
Best Regards,
Barry C.
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY
If you are not the intended recipient or employee or agent responsible for
return. Any distribution or copying of this document by anyone other than
the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. Airclaims cannot be held
responsible for any alterations made to this document, intentionally or
Airclaims Limited, Registered Office: Cardinal Point, Newall Road, Heathrow
Airport, Hounslow, Middlesex, TW6 2AS. Company Registration No. 710284
England and Wales.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Strange Commander |
THANKS BARRY.............
Another mystery solved!! See you soon. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
If you think your plane suddenly grew slipper tanks,then you remember
overtaking a 150 while on final,you might be a RED-NECKED COMMANDER PILOT!
BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS..
I just finished a really busy week of flying the biplane and
will be crawling into the left seat of triple two in a few minutes. I may
need to drive back tomorrow to pick up Richard but don't want to get
weathered in here.
Anyone else want an air to air of their Commander?? The photographer
is hear, spent the night on the boat with me (Took the very best photos ever
of the biplane on the way home yesterday, they are amazing!!) Let me know.
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
Jimbob
Gail wants to know if we get to meet Rocy and the Iguana?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.........
Just got back from picking up Richard and Jackie Thompson, Great
folks!! Jim Raeder (the photographer) and I brought the Commander back to
SEA between IFR spots, lousy weather, rain all the way. Supposed to dry up
tomorrow????? We talked Commanders for the last three hours. Had dinner
with Tyler Hall. He is in town moving his daughter into new digs. He will
be at the event.
Also, Keith Gordon will be there!! He is coming with Randy Dunn in
his 690A Jim Carroll will be driving down from SEA. He is looking for his
first Commander. Dick Polits will be there with his father. I think the
head count will be 70+. I should have a final by Thursday.
Thanks to everybody!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
Good news! 680E and I will be able to attend. Anyone from the Bay Area
headed that way?? Would love to gaggle up with someone on Friday. One
concern is the WX. Don't have my IFR ticket yet so I hope it's not a
problem. Isn't it supposed to be summer????
Barry Hancock
Precision Flight Networks
(949) 300-5510
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Gang,Last offer to the group for the adoption of Lucille before she goes
to the broker,which translates into costing more and some non-believer
getting his mitts on a truly one of a kind bird.When the weekend rolls
around,just ask Milt about the ole gal,and in the meantime I will be getting
a spec sheet ready to send to anyone who is seriosly interested!Ya'll
enjoy!!!!! Al P.S. If you want to know just how rare she is,just ask
Harry Merritt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Wingtips available cheap! |
FYI,
There is a pair of nice Commander wing tips listed on ebay.
Current price is $9, so if you need a pair.... ya ain't gonna
get 'em much cheaper.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: We're comin'! |
To all that have replied. I'd be delighted to hook up and will contact each
of you who responded. Can you imagine a 4 ship echelon of Commanders doing
a 3 second break on arrival at HIO? Maybe the TCFG needs to become a
F.A.S.T member! :) Hey, if the Bonanza guys can do it.....
At this point I'm planning to come to the Bay Area Thurs. pm and leave for
HIO Friday whenever we can coordinate departure. Looking forward to this
for sure!
Barry Hancock
Precision Flight Networks
(949) 300-5510
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Just got word that Milt has departed Gulfport. He's picking
up Tillman and "little Crunk" before getting to Tulsa to pick
up Kim and I. The plan (subject to change of course) is that
to Boise ID. Probably stay in Boise and get to HIO fairly
early Fri.
My thanks to "Milt's travel service for the Commanderless"!
Looking forward to seeing everyone!
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Rides for the Commanderless? |
Hay Gang,
I am stuck-in-Seattle. Anyone going south on Friday?
Air or ground?
Cell Phone is 913-485-3799.
I am willing to help with cost of gas.
Thanks,
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hitting the air |
YIPPIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yall fly safe now, Ya hear!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | stranded in Tulsa |
Well folks, we're gonna be a bit late getting to HIO
tomorrow, but I think we'll overcome the obstacles in our
path. Oh, do we have stories to tell!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | THANKS EVERYBODY |
As I write this dozens of very special people are winging their way home.
They are in the care of a great airplane at this very moment. Thanks to all.
To the Aussies who have such a great attitude about life and traveled
so far, Thank you. To Jim Furlong who's kind words were an inspiration and
just what I needed, Thank you. To Morris Kernick and the Commander services
crew, Thank you. To Milt Concannon, Chris Schuermann and all the "Southern
crew" Thank you. To Gary Tillman, the fastest talking insurance salesman I
ever met, Thank you. To Dick Wartinger and Commander Aero, Thank you. To
Mike and Randi for the great gifts, Thank you. To TCAC for loaning us
Jeffery Pence (sp) for a great talk, Thank you. To Kevin, Ken, Scott, Lori
and all the great people at Aero Air, Thank you. To Swede Ralston for the
great stories, Thank you. To wing Commander Gordon and Randy for coming so
far just to say hi, Thank you. To Barry Collman for, well, everything, Thank
you. To all those who attended, I am humbled by your kind words and your
passion for these great airplanes, Thank you. Thank you all from the bottom
of my heart.
It was such a thrill to meet all of you and to put faces with the
names. God speed to all of you and my prayers for a safe journey are with
you. Remember, "The good Lord never built a low wing bird"
PS, If I have forgotten anyone please forgive me. In Christ Capt
jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: THANKS EVERYBODY |
As I write this dozens of very special people are winging their way home.
They are in the care of a great airplane at this very moment. Thanks to
all.
No Jim, THANK YOU!! What a wonderful event. 680E is back safely at SNA
after a 4:48 flight...longest single leg in my young career. Will write
more later but thanks to all of you for coming and sharing your passion.
This was definitely an event to build on!
Jim, you can form up on my wing any time...just don't get sucked on takeoff!
:) ...only wish more had been there to see it...wish *I* could have seen
it from the ground for that matter. Damn I love these airplanes!
I feel blessed to be a part of such a wonderful community that is the TCFG.
Cheers,
Barry Hancock
Precision Flight Networks
(949) 300-5510
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: THANKS EVERYBODY |
Capt. Jimbob (and ALL!),
I'm sitting here safely at home (after a fine 3-hr. formation flight with Dennis
Polito & Barry Hancock [and Morris & the Commander Services crew!]), still smiling
ear-to-ear and thinking about all the faces I was finally able to put to
names, and all the new friends I now have. I can't imagine how this weekend
could have been any better. I have many, many new reasons to consider myself lucky,
and they don't necessarily have anything to do with Aero Commanders other
than the fact that the ownership of one connected me to all of you.
Jim & Sue, I think I speak for all of us attendees when I say that you did a FANTASTIC
job in making us feel welcome and further stoking the fires of our enthusiasm
for these fine airplanes! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for
working so hard to make this event the best ever (not that *I* know, I got
that from people who've been to several over the last decade). I can't wait to
fly across the country for next year's event!
Also, thanks to Kevin, Swede & all at Aero Air who created such a hospitable Commander-friendly
atmosphere for the weekend!
Cheers to all, and see you on the chatlist....
/John
PS: I do owe one serious apology: Sir Barry, please forgive me for a) blasting
out of HIO without a proper goodbye, and b) not sitting still for the ONLY request
you've made of me ever.....one single, simple picture with my airplane. Forgive
me and please let me buy you a pint at our next meeting.....my departure
was extremely bad form.
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 3:38 PM
Subject: THANKS EVERYBODY
As I write this dozens of very special people are winging their way home.
They are in the care of a great airplane at this very moment. Thanks to all.
To the Aussies who have such a great attitude about life and traveled
so far, Thank you. To Jim Furlong who's kind words were an inspiration and
just what I needed, Thank you. To Morris Kernick and the Commander services
crew, Thank you. To Milt Concannon, Chris Schuermann and all the "Southern
crew" Thank you. To Gary Tillman, the fastest talking insurance salesman I
ever met, Thank you. To Dick Wartinger and Commander Aero, Thank you. To
Mike and Randi for the great gifts, Thank you. To TCAC for loaning us
Jeffery Pence (sp) for a great talk, Thank you. To Kevin, Ken, Scott, Lori
and all the great people at Aero Air, Thank you. To Swede Ralston for the
great stories, Thank you. To wing Commander Gordon and Randy for coming so
far just to say hi, Thank you. To Barry Collman for, well, everything, Thank
you. To all those who attended, I am humbled by your kind words and your
passion for these great airplanes, Thank you. Thank you all from the bottom
of my heart.
It was such a thrill to meet all of you and to put faces with the
names. God speed to all of you and my prayers for a safe journey are with
you. Remember, "The good Lord never built a low wing bird"
PS, If I have forgotten anyone please forgive me. In Christ Capt
jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | [Here's one for you!] |
If anyone can help this person, please reply to him directly
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Folks, I'll keep this short, but the HIO flyin was the single
finest gathering that I have EVER attended. I have never had
so much fun and met so many truely fine people. Capt Jimbob
set a new standard of greatness which will be hard to ever
exceed! There are too many people to show appreciation to for this
email, but my personal thanks to Milt Concannon and his wonderful
wife for transporting Kim and I in style to HIO.
I will put a detailed report (with MANY pictures) up on the
web site as soon as I can and will let the group know when
it's up.
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: THANKS EVERYBODY |
Thanks Capt jimbob for such a great time!
I know how hard it is to put one of these gatherings together and you did
a very
classy job. I echo your comments below.
ps I have taken quite a few photos of everyone on their best behavior,
so I'll try to put them up on a web site as soon as possible.
(email to follow for the site location)
regards,
Randy Sharp
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com said:
>As I write this dozens of very special people are winging their way home.
>They are in the care of a great airplane at this very moment. Thanks to all.
> To the Aussies who have such a great attitude about life and traveled
>so far, Thank you. To Jim Furlong who's kind words were an inspiration and
>just what I needed, Thank you. To Morris Kernick and the Commander services
>crew, Thank you. To Milt Concannon, Chris Schuermann and all the "Southern
>crew" Thank you. To Gary Tillman, the fastest talking insurance salesman I
>ever met, Thank you. To Dick Wartinger and Commander Aero, Thank you. To
>Mike and Randi for the great gifts, Thank you. To TCAC for loaning us
>Jeffery Pence (sp) for a great talk, Thank you. To Kevin, Ken, Scott, Lori
>and all the great people at Aero Air, Thank you. To Swede Ralston for the
>great stories, Thank you. To wing Commander Gordon and Randy for coming so
>far just to say hi, Thank you. To Barry Collman for, well, everything, Thank
>you. To all those who attended, I am humbled by your kind words and your
>passion for these great airplanes, Thank you. Thank you all from the bottom
>of my heart.
> It was such a thrill to meet all of you and to put faces with the
>names. God speed to all of you and my prayers for a safe journey are with
>you. Remember, "The good Lord never built a low wing bird"
> PS, If I have forgotten anyone please forgive me. In Christ Capt
>jimbob
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | nico van niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: THANKS EVERYBODY- Hi Y'all |
Hi- 'Yall
I'm back in Rome, Ga.
Slept in the pilots lounge at Tulsa International...Thanks to Mercury
Aviation...
A courtesy car and a 1 am breakfast at Denny's...The privileges of being a
pilot are like non other...
Really...it was a blast...
The ride from Tulsa to DFW and then to BNA was non-eventful.
The Commander was fueled and ready to go at Signature BNA.
Broken to Over cast across the mountains, requested the visual from Atlanta
CTR.
No problem...cleared for the visual. Cancelled IFR and SQUAWKED 1200...
Home Again.
Indeed it was a great time, had by all...
Thanks to all who attended...24 hours in a 685 was really worth it.
Thanks Dr. Milt....
Y'all Come.
Fly Safe and remember the IPC and BFR in your plane...not a Cessna 150...
Or, heaven forbid, a low wing...I know God never built a bird with the wings
on the bottom...
Thanks for a great time...
Gary Tillman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | FLYIN TRIP REPORT UP! |
Everyone,
I just finished putting up a "trip report" with many pictures.
For those who didn't attend, this is "must read" stuff. For those
who did, hopefully you will have fond memories while reading...
http://www.aerocommander.com/TCFG/2001flyin/index2.html
Sincerely,
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN TRIP REPORT UP! |
Chris,
Thanks for the fantastic report! I've been smiling and laughing for the last
15 minutes as I relived one of the best weekends ever. Seeing the pictures
again reinforces my feeling that this is truly a wonderful group of people.
I'm glad to be a part of it!
Thanks also for your hard work, server space, and never-waning support of
all of us & our airplanes!!!!
Great meeting you, and I'm looking forward to next year's flyin!
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:23 AM
Subject: FLYIN TRIP REPORT UP!
> Everyone,
> I just finished putting up a "trip report" with many pictures.
> For those who didn't attend, this is "must read" stuff. For those
> who did, hopefully you will have fond memories while reading...
>
> http://www.aerocommander.com/TCFG/2001flyin/index2.html
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Chris Schuermann
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
Hi Gang,
I too am back home and I find everything is up to date in Kansas City.
Wow, what a week-end!!! Meeting old and new friends and Internet friends.
Chris, good report. I looked at every photo.
JimBob. You know how to put on a great party. We all are looking forward
to the next one.
Thanks go out to Aero Air, Kevin, and Swede. Great organization and good
support.
I am totally amazed that on late Saturday afternoon, Dr. Milts 685 was
fixed in hours. I had just found out that there was a problem walking
through the hangar and was asking Ken Molczan about it when the welder
walked in with the part, fixed. The Mechanic grabbed it and started putting
it back together. Unbelievable service.
Russell (AU) and I were that last ones on the ground after every one had
left. We had the great opportunity to witness the departure of two 680Es
in formation. A sound not often heard. What a SOUND!!! I have photos to
prove it. I just got back from dropping them off to be processed.
On Monday, JB came to HIO to pick Russell and me up to take us to PDX.
Thanks Jim. We heard him long before we saw him. Russell got a chance to
sit right seat with Sir Barry and I in the back. I am amazed at how far
Russell and Sir Barry came to attend a one day event. Russell was on his
way to LAX and a 20 hour flight to Sidney. He will not be back in Darwin,
NWT until Thursday some time. He will spend twice the amount of time on
airliners coming and going than at the meeting. That is a large amount of
interest from someone who does not own a Commander yet. It will not be long
though. He has his eye on a 560.
It was great meeting everyone and seeing lots of Twin Commanders.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 4 engine 680E's |
Tylor,
AWESOME. And here I was pouting that I couldn't see it from the ground. I would
love a copy of the photos when they get back!Wish you had a tape recorder to
get the sound too!
Great meeting you as well.
As the Aussies would say "good on ya!"
Barry
Russell (AU) and I were that last ones on the ground after every one had left.
We had the great opportunity to witness the departure of two 680E's in formation.
A sound not often heard. What a SOUND!!! I have photos to prove it. I
just got back from dropping them off to be processed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN TRIP REPORT UP! |
Chris,
The photos and write-ups on your website are fantastic!
I have some photos posted as well but unedited and with no commentaries.
Hope you enjoy...
http://homepage.mac.com/rotors_and_wings/PhotoAlbum1.html
ps there are multiple sections to select due to the quantity of photos
and more to follow. (more than 130)
Regards,
Randy
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com said:
>Everyone,
>I just finished putting up a "trip report" with many pictures.
>For those who didn't attend, this is "must read" stuff. For those
>who did, hopefully you will have fond memories while reading...
>
>http://www.aerocommander.com/TCFG/2001flyin/index2.html
>Sincerely,
>Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN TRIP REPORT UP! |
Ohh sure! Show off your bitchin' panel to make us all *jealous*! Well, at
least you made *me* jealous! Anyone want to donate $30K to the 680E
avionics fund? No? And I thought this was a great community.... :)
Thanks for all the pics, everyone. I must say that, even though I have only
been to fly-ins in the warbird community, this fly-in was top notch. I am
very fortunate to fly a warbird (Nanchang CJ-6A) where we all get along and
help each other despite background or status - most if not all other warbird
groups are not like that. The Commander group has impressed me as having
the same qualities. What a wonderfully enthusiastic and pleasant bunch!
I'm guessing the TCFG is as unique in this aspect in GA is the Yak Pilots
Association is in the warbird community.
Speaking of which, I thought I'd throw this one out there... With 2003
approaching fast, and the AC's having such a distinguished place in aviation
history. It seems appropriate that we have a formation of Commanders at OSH
and the Dayton event that same year. Formation flying is not for everyone,
but if there are a few among us qualified/willing to teach it we could make
it happen.... If there is sufficient interest I will persue what it would
take. I just hate the thought of being out done by Bonanza drivers! (no
offense intended - clearly a Commander owner who has/had a Bonanza is a
different breed than the average Bonanza driver).
Barry Hancock
Precision Flight Networks
(949) 300-5510
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to reiterate Chris' thoughts by saying THANKS to all for a great weekend.
It was a pleasure to meet and talk with you and I sincerely appreciated
being able to attend on my dad's behalf.
Another special thank you to Captain Jim Bob and his wife for their hard work in
organizing the event, and most importantly for me....
THANK YOU!! -- Dr. Concannon for letting me ride along and operate your beautiful
airplane! I will send you the paper where I wrote "Thank you" one thousand
times tomorrow!!! (along with -- "I will not leave an oil cap off of your engine
ever again!" -- You wanted that one five thousand times, if my memory serves
me correct.)
And to the rest of the deep south crew -- Gail, Gary, Chris and Kim -- Thanks --
20 hours in an aluminum tube together -- and none of you threw me out in flight!!
Cordially,
Don "Little Crunk" Crunkleton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS...................
WOW, what a great bunch you all are. Thanks so much for the
kind words!!! I know that the dust is just settling from this years event
but I want to start planning the 2002 gathering. As promised, it will be on
the East coat this time.
I am pretty hard over on the event being held at a Commander place,
probably a Service Center. The choices seem to be Eagle Creek Aviation,
Indianapolis, IN, Northeast air, Portland Maine, Corporate Flight, Smyrna, TN
or Banyan Air, FT. Lauderdale. Other suggestions????
Barry suggested that we pick a weekend and hold the event on that
weekend every year (except 2003 when we will corodinat the flyin, and arival
of 100 Commanders, to coincide with the celebration in Dayton at Commander
Aero). I really like that idea and think the third weekend in SEP or the
first weekend in OCT would be good?????
Let me know what you think. This will of course depend on the service
center having us, we are a bit "renegade" for them!!
Sue and I have identified several things to do differently next time
that should make the event better for you and we are always open to any
suggestion you might have.
Thanks again for a great event, without you, it sure would have been
lonely!!!!!!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to reiterate Chris' thoughts by saying THANKS to all for a great weekend.
It was a pleasure to meet and talk with you and I sincerely appreciated
being able to attend on my dad's behalf.
Another special thank you to Captain Jim Bob and his wife for their hard work in
organizing the event, and most importantly for me....
THANK YOU!! -- Dr. Concannon for letting me ride along and operate your beautiful
airplane! I will send you the paper where I wrote "Thank you" one thousand
times tomorrow!!! (along with -- "I will not leave an oil cap off of your engine
ever again!" -- You wanted that one five thousand times, if my memory serves
me correct.)
And to the rest of the deep south crew -- Gail, Gary, Chris and Kim -- Thanks --
20 hours in an aluminum tube together -- and none of you threw me out in flight!!
Cordially,
Don "Little Crunk" Crunkleton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
BUDDY WINDHAM...........
I have some interesting info concerning your conversion but
don't have your email address. Please contact me. Thanks. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Echo Echo echo echo ... |
I have to echo everything that's already been written about our Fly-In.
I was really thrilled to meet many of you who I've only known via this email
net. To reunite with some of my old Commander pals was a compulsory maneuver.
Thanks to all who flew in via your Commanders and those who braved the
airlines. Well done!
I regret having to leave so early because there are a number of you I wanted
to sit with and get to know.
But! At least I was able to be the co-recipient of the coveted Golden Pedal
Award. That made my treasonous sneak away from Falcon duty all worth it.
The only thing I think needs to be added to the many compliments and the
monuments on Chris and Randy's web sites is a belated award going to Dr. Milt
Concannon for "Wackiest Shirt."
Next Fly-In, I'm coming with one of those eeeeegwanas and one of those shirts
they-all wear in Mississippi.
Thanks for everything, Capt. Jimbob.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Guys,
We had a bit of a snag in the mail server. I'm terribly sorry
as I think several messages sent over the last few days may not
have been delivered. Although I believe I have things un-stuck
now, I'd like to hear back from one or two of you (directly to
me, not the list) that you received THIS message.
Thanks,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Honey I'm Home!! |
Gday to all in Commanderland!
Glad to here that everyone got back safely.
Just arrived home in Katherine this morning (Thurs) after routing
Hillsboro-PDX, 20min with CaptJimbob and N222JS, PDX-LAX (2.5hrs, 737-500
United N920UA), LAX-SYD (15hrs...we had head winds... 747-400 United
N175UA), SYD-ASP (3hrs, 737-400 Ansett VH-CZU), ASP-DRW(2hrs, 737-400 Ansett
VH-CZU) and DRW-KTR (1hr, Metroliner Air North VH-HCB)... not too jet-lagged
and with fond memories of the weekend swirling around in this little Ossies
grey matter.
Tylor and I stayed on at Best Western Hillsboro on Sunday night, shot the
breeze and talked Commanders at length.
We walked over to the Hillsboro terminal on Monday morning and were greeted
with the sounds of ol triple 2 announcing its arrival to come and pick us
up...long before we could see it. Jimbob kindly ferried Sir Barry and the
two of us over to PDX pulling in at the Flightcraft facility at approx
11.50am.
Before leaving PDX on Monday afternoon Sir Barry and I had a great
opportunity to have lunch and reflect on another great week-end in
Commanderland. Barry had Fish & Chips and I had the Sushi and over that
lunch we regularly found ourselves in fits of laughter around the adventures
of the weekend.
I filled Sir Barry in on the scope of that last take-off for the 2001 TCFG
Fly-in...he was sitting in 222JS looking across at 680E... Sir Barry had
been hastily scrambled at the last minute while trying to line up John
Vormbaum for a photo shoot in front of JohnCharlieCharlie!
As Barry H and Captain Jimbob taxied out, Tylor and I glumly realised that
we were the gate-keepers and the end had come! And then there was that
departure!
Barry and Jimbob you did just great... The very least I expected of my
weekend at Hillsboro was to witness a four-engine Commander take-off. Guys
your stream take-off was very professional and sounded like four geared
lycomings at take-off db, in the same space... Just awesome.
For Tylor and I it was well worth the loneliness of gate-keeping... But be
put on notice... Next year a tape-recorder must be available!
I enjoyed a fabulous time throughout the weekend and add my most sincere
thanks to Jimbob and Sue for their great organisational efforts. Guys you
should go into professional convention organising!
A big thankyou to all those who succeeded in translating my accent.
It was great to meet you all and talk about so many future possibilities.
Well done Chris on your write-up... A very pleasant surprise to find it up
and running so quickly.
Good morning all... Another great weekend in Commanderland for this lil
Ossie!
Cheers and Beers
Russell
The proud holder of the 2001 TCFG Longest Distance Travelled Award.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)acu.org> |
| Subject: | Genocide in Zimbabwe. Are we to blame also? |
Forward to your friends, please.
It is a weird, wicked world we live in.
In Zimbabwe the illegal occupation of farm land has resumed, only a few weeks after
international pressure forced President Mugabe to ease off with the criminal
occupation of the farmers' land. Whether one believes that the land traditionally
belongs to the blacks or not, is not the point here. What we do know is
that the land was not stolen but legally purchased and paid for and, here is
the crux of the matter, that country's laws recognize their land ownership. That
being the case, the laws of the country should dictate how the land passes
from one owner to another, not the emotional attack of a despot who clings to
power by criminal means. Criminal in various ways. It is criminal if one disobeys
the laws that one is supposed to uphold as the president. It is criminal
to willfully cripple one's country's ability to produce food. It is criminal to
kill people because they disagree with you. There are so many criminal acts
committed in Zimbabwe, all to assure a victory for Mugabe in the next elections.
And he knows that he can achieve that by two means, namely, intimidation of
the general population, and giving those, who have no inclination to work for
a living, free land.
What these new 'owners' would do with that land is probably of no concern to Mugabe.
Farms and ranches have to be economical units. If you cut them up in pieces
that are too small, they become nothing more than subsistence plots, at best
able to support those who live on them, if they work at it. This means no food
for the urban population, over grazing, no sewer and water services, erosion,
disease, and eventually the green lush vegetation of the region would become
barren. The topsoil would blow away taking away even the subsistence ability
of the soil. What now has the potential of being a food exporting region, would
look like the Sudan, Ethiopia and other countries where subsistence farming
has failed and damaged their countries for centuries. But Mugabe doesn't care.
He wants to be re-elected. Are politics different in Africa?
Already the Zimbabwean government admits that the farm occupations will cause Zimbabwe
to import 100,000 tons of maize. Now, if they admit that number, one can
assume that it is much higher because it is reasonable to expect that they
would try to downplay the shame. It wasn't long before experts in Zimbabwe and
elsewhere contradicted the 100,000 tons of maize needed and estimated it to be
more than eight times that number.
It is relatively easy to point to the arch-criminal in this drama; it is less obvious
to point to the henchmen that support him.
It is relatively easy to point to the victims in this drama; it is less obvious
to point to the real sufferers.
African leaders are notorious for intercepting aid and money for aid from the West
and stuff their foreign bank accounts while their own people are dying by
the thousands. They build palaces while babies die of malnutrition and their mothers
look like living sacks of bones, no longer able to suckle their dying young,
no longer able to muster a tear, no longer able to get angry: they themselves
being at the brink of the grave.
But drive in their capitols, and see the president pass in his motorcade: bulletproof
limousines with hundreds of escorting policemen; millions of dollars spent
on private jets, body guards, overseas trips, caviar and champagne. Not a
thought to the parents, who at every laugh, every bite of caviar, every sip of
champagne, has to bury a child who would have lived had only a fraction of the
aid siphoned through, had there only been a little less debauchery and gluttony,
had there only been but a mere thought for their wellbeing.
Who then, are the real perpetrators? Are those who stand idly by not to blame?
How much more are those to blame who participate by kissing up to these genocidalists
instead of rebuking them?
Remember, evil is not only that evil that is perpetrated but it is also the good
that is omitted. Send this to your Congressman and Senator. They should be informed.
Nico van Niekerk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Benson <nosneb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | You met my sister on a flight from London |
My sister talked to you on a flight from London. She sent your e-mail
address but I probably lost it in a computer reconfiguration. I have
attached my resume in the hope that you may have a fit for me.
Thanks for your consideration.
Randy Benson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Campbell <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
| Subject: | Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Campbell <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com>
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:30 AM
Subject: Eqip list, MEL for 520
Does anyone have an equipment list for a 520 or 560 that I could use to re-create
to one for my plane. It is one of the few pieces of the puzzle left, and the
original is a little terse for the FAA's taste.... The alternative is to try
to research a "bunch of stuff" that could take a lot of time, etc.
Thanks.
Bruce A. Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
>Pardon me but, what is an "Eqip list"?
>Do I need one?
>bilbo
It is the total list of everything installed in the airplane. It
should have a line item entry for EVERY accessory as well as it's
moment and weight. (better lists also include part numbers and
serial numbers). It is a required piece of documentation for an
airworthy aircraft. It's also what is used to update your W&B
whenever anything is changed. For example, you decide to swap out
your generators for new zillion-amp alternators. You simply add the
new alternators to the equip list, zero the weight of the generators,
and use their arm for the alternators.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 08/29/01 18:26:22 Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
> The choices seem to be Eagle Creek Aviation,
> Indianapolis, IN, Northeast air, Portland Maine, Corporate Flight, Smyrna,
> TN
> or Banyan Air, FT. Lauderdale. Other suggestions????
>
You know, there are tons of Commanders in Fladah (note the correct
pronunciation; I was instructed by a native) and there's never been any kind
of event there.
I like the idea of Portland, Maine, but there is less of a concentration of
Commanders up there -- and I think the Fladah venue will enable more of our
Latin American and Caribbean amigos to attend.
Just as important, Sir Barry has never been to Fladah.
Bottom line is whether Banyan would provide facilities for us. Considering
the number of piston Commanders they see, I'd think it's a good fit.
Careful about summer time, though. It would be really hot and muggy in the
hangar.
Do iguanas and palmetto bugs get along?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Thanks for all the responses everyone. Looks like we're back
on solid ground and the chatlist is functioning normally.
See, I can't leave town for even a weekend before you guys
tear something up!
Well, I plan to go do a pre-purchase inspection on a
MRRPM 680FP sometime very soon. If it's as represented, I
intend to purchase! The ride to HIO in Milt's 685 just
re-confirmed for me that I want a pressurized bird with
turbos! I never really had much interest in a turbocharged
bird until I bought my Viking, but after four years of being able
to rapidly climb as high as I want and cruise at lower RPMs I'm
completely sold on the idea. I was talking to Dick MacCoon at the
flyin and he really wants me to bring this 680FP out to his shop
to have the intercoolers added. He told me that the engines were
being robbed of 100hp each at 24000 just due to heating and that
I'd REALLY notice a difference with the upgrade. I'm still
skeptical, but Dick claims that I'd be able to get 300mph at
24k.... (at 100% continuous on the IO-720s).
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Gang, Really sorry I missed out but maybe next year.Glad every one had
such a good time and all arrived home safely.My biggest kick was hearing the
Southern(By the grace of God)Rednecks were well represented,from the
largest(can't mention any names but his initials are MILT)to the
smallest.Have chatted with Russell in the past and have but one thing to
say,How in Hell does he expect to become a RNCP eating SOOCHY? Best to you
all. Big AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
> Bruce Campbell wrote:
> Does anyone have an equipment list for a 520 or 560 that I could use
> to re-create to one for my plane. It is one of the few pieces of the
> puzzle left, and the original is a little terse for the FAA's
> taste.... The alternative is to try to research a "bunch of stuff"
> that could take a lot of time, etc.
Bruce,
There was a great article in this months AOPA mag on equip lists.
The bottom line is that you need to start with the manufacturers
basic equip list, then update it to match your airplane. AOPA
suggested (for old airplanes) that you just create a new list using
your favorite spreadsheet and starting with the data from the
orig one that came with the airplane. Once you have the equip
list up to date, this would be a good time to re-weigh the airplane
and create a new W&B sheet as well.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
Pardon me but, what is an "Eqip list"?
Do I need one?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Campbell
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:30 PM
Subject: Eqip list, MEL for 520
Does anyone have an equipment list for a 520 or 560 that I could use to re-create
to one for my plane. It is one of the few pieces of the puzzle left, and
the original is a little terse for the FAA's taste.... The alternative is to try
to research a "bunch of stuff" that could take a lot of time, etc.
Thanks.
Bruce A. Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
In a message dated 08/30/01 10:18:55 Pacific Daylight Time,
baruch(at)intelligentflight.com writes:
> Does anyone have an equipment list for a 520 or 560 that I could use to
> re-create to one for my plane. It is one of the few pieces of the puzzle
> left, and the original is a little terse for the FAA's taste.... The
> alternative is to try to research a "bunch of stuff" that could take a lot
>
Bruce,
There is NO alternative to a "bunch of stuff" when dealing with MELs. They
ARE an bunch of work but that's the nature of the beast.
Hey .... some guys do Grand Renegade restoration projects and some guys do
MELs.
The MMEL for the 500 series Commanders is found at the following FAA web link:
http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/Final/smallac/G500r4a/G500r4a.txt
if the hyper link doesn't work, paste this into your browser:
http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/Final/smallac/G500r4a/G500r4a.txt
If you were looking for a list of originally installed equipment on your
airplane, you'll have to request that direclty from TCAC, unless you have
very detailed weight and balance data for the 520 (he says tongue in cheek).
Best of luck ... and write to us when you get released from the asylum.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Campbell <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Equipment list, MEL for 520 |
That is equipment list, yes on any twin you need one, and preferrably two one equipment
list which lists the installed equipment on the plane (generators, hydraulic
pump, instruments, heater, etc), and a mimum equipment list which specifies
what *must* be working in order to be airworthy. In the absence of an MEL,
*all* of the installed equipment must be functioning for airworthiness, so
you can get violated for a faulty copilot rate of climb gauge.
The list is usually long and detailed (for the nearby 680FL is runs seven pages),
and includes weights and moments for each piece of equipment. Since most of
this stuff is hard to find (quick, how much does your janitrol weigh and what
is it's *exact* CG?) it would be *really* helpful if someone has one already
which I can adapt to my plane, rather than have to generate it all by other means
(disassembly and weighting???)
Bruce A Campbell
AC52 N4186B
-----Original Message-----
From: w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net>
To: Bruce Campbell ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520
Pardon me but, what is an "Eqip list"?
Do I need one?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Campbell
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:30 PM
Subject: Eqip list, MEL for 520
Does anyone have an equipment list for a 520 or 560 that I could use to
re-create to one for my plane. It is one of the few pieces of the puzzle left,
and the original is a little terse for the FAA's taste.... The alternative is
to try to research a "bunch of stuff" that could take a lot of time, etc.
Thanks.
Bruce A. Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN TRIP REPORT UP! |
Chris, Randy Great Work On The Photos On The Web!!!!!
I really wish that Crunk Senior and I could have come. We were able to get
junior out there though!!!! (Thanks a million Milt!!,,I hope he was as much
help as I promised!!)
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
Next year I'm comin barefoot in bib overalls and a tobacco stained t-shirt. AND
I'm bringin BIG AL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
MARK & JACK,
Ive converted some of the 685 performance charts to XL spreadsheets and downloaded
them to a palmpilot so all you have to do is enter Gross weight , temp,
and pressure altitude and it will calculat takeoff, landing and start stop distances.
Also have converted some power and time to climb charts.
Would you like copies?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Honey I'm Home!! |
Barry and Jimbob you did just great... The very least I expected of my
weekend at Hillsboro was to witness a four-engine Commander take-off. Guys
your stream take-off was very professional and sounded like four geared
lycomings at take-off db, in the same space... Just awesome.
For Tylor and I it was well worth the loneliness of gate-keeping... But be
put on notice... Next year a tape-recorder must be available!
That's for sure! It was the last thing I was expecting to *do* during the
weekend! :)
What's more impressive than the take off, for sure, is the fact that you
wonderful Aussies gladly made such a grueling effort to attend.
I have made a fair share of section takeoffs in my young (350TT) flying
career, but that is one I shall never forget! I still get giddy over it.
BTW, for those of you unfamiliar with formation flying...lead gets all the
credit, but the wingmen do all the work. In short, Jim made us look good.
Elsewhere I have another 10 hrs. in 680E since HIO. That's about 40TT and
I'm now getting to the point where I'm just getting in and enjoying this
remarkable aircraft. Ted Smith, you are my hero. Well, one of 'em
anyway...
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
Thanks.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
Here is a document from the www.faa.gov site. Under search MEL. I hope this helps
explain the use and requirement for a Minimum Equipment List. I also did
not notice any diferentiation between Twin, Single or Turbine Aircraft. I am
pretty sure the MEL applies to all aircraft.
COMPANY NAME I-1/R-1/02-01-96
GENERAL OPERATIONS MANUAL
USE OF MINIMUM EQUIPMENT LIST
[135.23(i)]
1. General
A. Federal Aviation Regulations require certain systems and equipment to be operative
for multiengined aircraft operations. These FAR's also provide for deviations
from these requirements via the Minimum Equipment List (MEL). The policy
and procedures in this section will be adhered to by MY COMPANY.
B. All components/systems on an aircraft fall into three categories in regard to
airworthiness requirements.
1) Units obviously required for the aircraft to be airworthy (such as tires, primary
control systems, wings, and units required for original certification) are
generally not included in the MEL.
2) Units that do not affect the airworthiness of the aircraft (including such items
as entertainment systems, cabin trim, curtains, pillows, additional systems
for weather detection, flight phones, etc.) are generally not included in the
MEL.
3) Units which do not clearly fall into either of the above categories or for which
some deviation from the normal complement of equipment has been approved.
C. The MEL contains units and systems in category 3 above for which operation of
the aircraft with some deviation from airworthiness standards or operating rules
has been approved. These are components and systems that the operator or
manufacturer has proven that the aircraft may safely operate without, under specific
conditions.
D. The MEL does not include every piece of equipment or system in the aircraft.
When no specific mention of a unit or system is made in the MEL, it is necessary
that the equipment be in place and operative unless it falls into category
2 above. It is the Pilot-in-Command's (PIC) responsibility to determine if an
item falls into category 2 above. When the item falls into category 2, the PIC
must also determine that the inoperative item does not affect the airworthiness
of the aircraft.
E. Should any doubt exist as to interpretation of MEL items, or the proper category
of an item, assistance shall be obtained from the Director of Maintenance,
or the Director of Operations.
COMPANY NAME I-2/R-1/02-01-96
GENERAL OPERATIONS MANUAL
F. The PIC of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority
as to, the operation of that aircraft. It is the Pica's responsibility to assure
that the inoperative equipment is allowed for in the MEL. However, this
authority does not allow the PIC to operate an aircraft with an inoperative item
requiring maintenance that has not been approved for return to service.
G. MEL authorized inoperative items such as radio black boxes, control heads, etc.
may be temporarily removed for repair with a logbook entry. Any necessary
weight and balance entries must also be made.
H. Before a qualified crewmember operates the aircraft with an inoperative item
he shall:
1) Determine that the inoperative item is an MEL authorized inoperative item.
2) Determine that the inoperative item will not affect safety of flight.
3) Determine that any required alternate equipment is operative.
4) Review the aircraft maintenance record to assure that the proper write ups and
sign offs have been accomplished.
5) Notify the Director of Maintenance at the earliest opportunity of any inoperative
item. This notification will allow him to program and initiate procedures
to assure timely corrective action is accomplished.
2. Approving Aircraft for Return to Service with Inoperative Items Requiring Maintenance
A. Aircraft may be approved for Return to Service as allowed by the MEL if the
Director of Maintenance and the PIC agree that operation in the conditions prevailing
at the time does not compromise safe operation of the aircraft, and the
Director of Maintenance has confirmed that required maintenance action is taken
to assure compliance with MEL procedures and prevention of secondary hazards.
If an item is marked with an (M), the maintenance procedure must be followed.
Items marked with an (M) are the only procedures that require approval for
Return to Service.
B. The MEL is designed to provide coverage for individual failure in nonrelated
systems. In the event of multiple discrepancies, even though each in itself may
be permitted, coordination, communication and agreement shall be accomplished
by the PIC and the Director of Maintenance. Consideration of the interrelationship
of the discrepancies and good judgment must be exercised by personnel
authorized to approve the aircraft for Return to Service.
COMPANY NAME I-3/R-1/02-01-96
GENERAL OPERATIONS MANUAL
C. When the indicating portion of an aircraft system or component is malfunctioning,
it may be necessary to perform appropriate troubleshooting procedures to
determine that the fault exists in the indicating system and not in the aircraft
system or component, in order to properly apply the requirements of this section.
D. Prior to any maintenance being accomplished by any non-company personnel or
organization the Director of Maintenance will determine whether that personnel
or organization is suitable and qualified.
E. Before an aircraft is approved for Return to Service the procedures will be
accomplished as follows:
1) Before an aircraft is approved for Return to Service under an (M) provision
of the MEL an authorized person will:
a. Determine whether or not maintenance action is required in addition to that
mandated in the MEL, and ensure prevention of secondary hazards.
b. Comply with the appropriate procedures in the MEL for the inoperative item.
c. Whenever complying with the recording requirements, the procedures outlined
in Part 3 of this section will be adhered to.
2) Before an aircraft is approved for Return to Service under an (M) provision
of the MEL from an airport where company maintenance personnel are not based and/or
are not on duty and after authorizing a suitable and qualified maintenance
person to accomplish the maintenance procedures the PIC will:
a. Ascertain that the authorized maintenance person is familiar with and understands
the provisions and procedures of the approved MEL and this manual.
b. Ascertain that the aircraft maintenance record is completed as outlined in Part
3 of this section by the authorized maintenance person.
COMPANY NAME I-4/R-1/02-01-96
GENERAL OPERATIONS MANUAL
3. Proper Write Ups and Sign Offs in the Aircraft Maintenance Record
A. The portion of the aircraft maintenance record containing the discrepancy records
must be on board the aircraft during operation so the PIC may be aware of
any inoperative instruments or equipment and be able to write up airworthiness
discrepancies as they are discovered.
B. Each person who discovers a discrepancy that affects the airworthiness of the
aircraft shall write it up in the aircraft discrepancy record as follows:
1) Description of the discrepancy.
2) Signature of person discovering discrepancy.
C. Each authorized person who maintains, performs preventative maintenance, rebuilds
or alters an aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component
part to comply with a provision of the MEL shall make an entry in the aircraft
discrepancy record containing the following information:
1) A description of work performed, which shall include the statement "Aircraft
operations continued per MEL ATA # - Item #".
(Example: "Aircraft operations continued per MEL Item 23-1").
2) The date of completion of work performed.
3) The signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person
approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for Return to Service
only for the work performed.
D. Each authorized person who approves an aircraft to continue operations with
an MEL authorized in operative item that does not have an (M) procedure shall
make an entry into the aircraft discrepancy record containing the following information:
1) The statement "Aircraft operations continued per MEL ATA # - Item #".
(Example: "Aircraft operations continued per MEL Item 23-1").
2) Date action taken.
3) The signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person
approving the aircraft to continue operations.
COMPANY NAME I-5/R-1/02-01-96
GENERAL OPERATIONS MANUAL
E. The following persons are authorized to approve an aircraft to continue operations
with inoperative items in accordance with the MEL:
1) The Pilot in Command.
2) The mechanic assigned to perform maintenance on the aircraft who has been delegated
authority to approve an aircraft for Return to Service.
3) The Director of Maintenance.
4. Corrective Action to MEL Inoperative Items
A. The Director of Maintenance shall review the status of each item that has been
approved to continue operations under the terms of the MEL, and shall schedule
repair as required by the repair interval designator (A, B, or C) as specified
in the MEL. Except as provided in B below, repairs MUST be accomplished as
specified by the repair interval designator.
B. The Director of Maintenance is authorized to approve an extension to the repair
interval provided he accomplishes the following actions:
1) In the case that required parts are not immediately available:
a. He shall obtain a firm delivery date of the part from the supplier.
b. He shall have the supplier note the delivery date on the order invoice.
c. He shall attach a copy of the invoice to the aircraft discrepancy record page
containing the entry in question.
d. Upon receipt of the subject part the Director of Operations shall be notified
and repair scheduled.
2) In the case of other factors beyond the control of the Company:
a. A statement containing all pertinent information shall be prepared and affixed
to the record of the inoperative item.
b. He shall coordinate with the Director of Operations to schedule repair on the
expected repair date.
COMPANY NAME I-6/R-1/02-01-96
GENERAL OPERATIONS MANUAL
Note: "Schedule Repair" means making adequate arrangements for bringing the aircraft,
parts, and maintenance personnel together at a given time and place. For
repairs to be performed at Company facilities, the Director of Maintenance shall
coordinate with the Director of Operations and arrange to take the aircraft
out of service to effect the repair. In case of the necessity to use the services
of an outside maintenance facility, this also involves making a firm schedule
with the facility to effect the repairs.
3) He shall notify the FAA Principal Maintenance Inspector of each time extension
he authorizes within 2 working days of such extensions.
C. After repairs have been made, the person approving the aircraft for Return to
Service shall enter the date, time, description of corrective action, and his
signature in the "corrective action" column of the page of the aircraft discrepancy
record containing the original discrepancy entry. He shall also ensure
that an appropriate entry is made in the permanent aircraft maintenance record
as required by FAR.
5. (M) Maintenance and (O) Operational Procedures
A. These procedures as specified in the MEL for certain items will be complied
with before approving an aircraft for continued operations with an MEL authorized
inoperative item.
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Eqip list, MEL for 520
In a message dated 08/30/01 10:18:55 Pacific Daylight Time,
baruch(at)intelligentflight.com writes:
Does anyone have an equipment list for a 520 or 560 that I could use to
re-create to one for my plane. It is one of the few pieces of the puzzle
left, and the original is a little terse for the FAA's taste.... The
alternative is to try to research a "bunch of stuff" that could take a lot
of time, etc.
Bruce,
There is NO alternative to a "bunch of stuff" when dealing with MELs. They
ARE an bunch of work but that's the nature of the beast.
Hey .... some guys do Grand Renegade restoration projects and some guys do
MELs.
The MMEL for the 500 series Commanders is found at the following FAA web link:
http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/Final/smallac/G500r4a/G500r4a.txt
if the hyper link doesn't work, paste this into your browser:
http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/Final/smallac/G500r4a/G500r4a.txt
If you were looking for a list of originally installed equipment on your
airplane, you'll have to request that direclty from TCAC, unless you have
very detailed weight and balance data for the 520 (he says tongue in cheek).
Best of luck ... and write to us when you get released from the asylum.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
re:Soochy
I believe in the south we call that BAIT.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:16 PM
Subject: RNCP
> Hey Gang, Really sorry I missed out but maybe next year.Glad every one had
> such a good time and all arrived home safely.My biggest kick was hearing
the
> Southern(By the grace of God)Rednecks were well represented,from the
> largest(can't mention any names but his initials are MILT)to the
> smallest.Have chatted with Russell in the past and have but one thing to
> say,How in Hell does he expect to become a RNCP eating SOOCHY? Best to you
> all. Big AL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 08/31/01 07:30:29 Pacific Daylight Time,
allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Have chatted with Russell in the past and have but one thing to
> say,How in Hell does he expect to become a RNCP eating SOOCHY
Think of it as crawdads.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Campbell <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
The list available from the manufacturer is only 12 items on the side of the
original W/B.
It includes some seats, but not the generators, hyd pump, janitrol, etc.,
let alone instruments,
etc These items are in turn needed for making up a MEL, which it looks like
I wont be able to get. In order to get an accurate weight and moment I
would have to remove these items, weigh them, find their individual CG, and
put back. At this point in the project that would be extremely difficult
and perhaps trash the whole project.
I cant believe that no one has better info around than that.
Thanks Anyway
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Date: Friday, August 31, 2001 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520
>> Bruce Campbell wrote:
>> Does anyone have an equipment list for a 520 or 560 that I could use
>> to re-create to one for my plane. It is one of the few pieces of the
>> puzzle left, and the original is a little terse for the FAA's
>> taste.... The alternative is to try to research a "bunch of stuff"
>> that could take a lot of time, etc.
>
>Bruce,
>There was a great article in this months AOPA mag on equip lists.
>The bottom line is that you need to start with the manufacturers
>basic equip list, then update it to match your airplane. AOPA
>suggested (for old airplanes) that you just create a new list using
>your favorite spreadsheet and starting with the data from the
>orig one that came with the airplane. Once you have the equip
>list up to date, this would be a good time to re-weigh the airplane
>and create a new W&B sheet as well.
>
>Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
Careful about summer time, though. It would be really hot and muggy in the
hangar.
Having been to Flori-duh (new pronunciation instituted after the election)
twice this year I would recommend the event be somewhere's around Sun 'n
Fun. 1) More bang for the buck. 2) WX is not as much of an issue.
Do iguanas and palmetto bugs get along?
Don't know about that, but I'm wondering if they can ward off the similar
sized roaches...
Wing Commander Gordon
Just little ol' Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 08/31/01 09:43:16 Pacific Daylight Time,
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net writes:
> Do iguanas and palmetto bugs get along?
>
> Don't know about that, but I'm wondering if they can ward off the similar
> sized roaches...
>
After meeting Capt. JimBob's iguana, I'd say it would be a fair match, if
we're counting tail lenght.
Good point about piggy-backing onto Sun n' Fun. That way we don't have to
test anyone's loyalty if they have to shoot their wad on only one trip to
Flori-duh per year.
My only fear is that we have to put this to a vote ... you know how elections
go there ...
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
My only fear is that we have to put this to a vote ... you know how
elections
go there ...
We'd spend more time designing the ballot than planning a coast-to-coast low
level trip... Then the FAA would have to count the ballots...
B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
In a message dated 08/31/01 11:42:26 Pacific Daylight Time,
baruch(at)intelligentflight.com writes:
> I cant believe that no one has better info around than that.
Bruce,
I can appreciate your frustration.
If you were dealing with an AC-500B, as an example, you would have more
support. For that matter, any Commander that's been on an FAR 135
certificate has most of the data you're looking for.
With a 520, you're dealing with a truly classic airplane from an era where
nothing of this sort was considered an operational necessity.
What was your motivation for obtaining an MEL in the first place? If you're
going to place your AC-520 onto an air carrier certificate, you need to
follow through.
If you're looking for compliance with FAR 91.213, read secion "d" which
allows small, non-turbine aircraft to operate without an MEL providing the
gizmos are not required for flight.
You must disable and placard the item "inop" to be legal.
... excerpt from FAR 91.213:
(d) Except for operations conducted in accordance with paragraph (a) or (c)
of this section, a person may takeoff an aircraft in operations conducted
under this part with inoperative instruments and equipment without an
approved Minimum Equipment List provided--
(1) The flight operation is conducted in a--
(i) Rotorcraft, nonturbine-powered airplane, glider, or lighter-than-air
aircraft for which a master Minimum Equipment List has not been developed; or
(ii) Small rotorcraft, nonturbine-powered small airplane, glider, or
lighter-than-air aircraft for which a Master Minimum Equipment List has been
developed; and
(2) The inoperative instruments and equipment are not--
(i) Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment
prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the
aircraft was type certificated;
(ii) Indicated as required on the aircraft's equipment list, or on the Kinds
of Operations Equipment List for the kind of flight operation being conducted;
(iii) Required by Sec. 91.205 or any other rule of this part for the specific
kind of flight operation being conducted; or
(iv) Required to be operational by an airworthiness directive; and
(3) The inoperative instruments and equipment are--
(i) Removed from the aircraft, the cockpit control placarded, and the
maintenance recorded in accordance with Sec. 43.9 of this chapter; or
(ii) Deactivated and placarded "Inoperative." If deactivation of the
inoperative instrument or equipment involves maintenance, it must be
accomplished and recorded in accordance with part 43 of this chapter; and
(4) A determination is made by a pilot, who is certificated and appropriately
rated under part 61 of this chapter, or by a person, who is certificated and
appropriately rated to perform maintenance on the aircraft, that the
inoperative instrument or equipment does not constitute a hazard to the
aircraft.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
If the rumble of pair of 340 geared engines does more for your labido than a
six pack of Viagra,you might be a RED NECKED COMMANDER PILOT! AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earthlink <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
I am glad you spoke those words first. I was going to mention basically the same
thing, and add that the proverbial POH was a laughable joke as compared to
the POH of today. infact there was no real POH, the POH is was basically a Sales
manual with some technical drawings in it.
Remember back in 1955 and round about, there were no real regulations as compared
with today.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520
In a message dated 08/31/01 11:42:26 Pacific Daylight Time,
baruch(at)intelligentflight.com writes:
I cant believe that no one has better info around than that.
Bruce,
I can appreciate your frustration.
If you were dealing with an AC-500B, as an example, you would have more
support. For that matter, any Commander that's been on an FAR 135
certificate has most of the data you're looking for.
With a 520, you're dealing with a truly classic airplane from an era where
nothing of this sort was considered an operational necessity.
What was your motivation for obtaining an MEL in the first place? If you're
going to place your AC-520 onto an air carrier certificate, you need to
follow through.
If you're looking for compliance with FAR 91.213, read secion "d" which
allows small, non-turbine aircraft to operate without an MEL providing the
gizmos are not required for flight.
You must disable and placard the item "inop" to be legal.
... excerpt from FAR 91.213:
(d) Except for operations conducted in accordance with paragraph (a) or (c)
of this section, a person may takeoff an aircraft in operations conducted
under this part with inoperative instruments and equipment without an
approved Minimum Equipment List provided--
(1) The flight operation is conducted in a--
(i) Rotorcraft, nonturbine-powered airplane, glider, or lighter-than-air
aircraft for which a master Minimum Equipment List has not been developed; or
(ii) Small rotorcraft, nonturbine-powered small airplane, glider, or
lighter-than-air aircraft for which a Master Minimum Equipment List has been
developed; and
(2) The inoperative instruments and equipment are not--
(i) Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment
prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the
aircraft was type certificated;
(ii) Indicated as required on the aircraft's equipment list, or on the Kinds
of Operations Equipment List for the kind of flight operation being conducted;
(iii) Required by Sec. 91.205 or any other rule of this part for the specific
kind of flight operation being conducted; or
(iv) Required to be operational by an airworthiness directive; and
(3) The inoperative instruments and equipment are--
(i) Removed from the aircraft, the cockpit control placarded, and the
maintenance recorded in accordance with Sec. 43.9 of this chapter; or
(ii) Deactivated and placarded "Inoperative." If deactivation of the
inoperative instrument or equipment involves maintenance, it must be
accomplished and recorded in accordance with part 43 of this chapter; and
(4) A determination is made by a pilot, who is certificated and appropriately
rated under part 61 of this chapter, or by a person, who is certificated and
appropriately rated to perform maintenance on the aircraft, that the
inoperative instrument or equipment does not constitute a hazard to the
aircraft.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
My father just sent me this. Apparently someone tried to hand-prop
a Saratoga....and succeeded... I've NEVER seen such a thing!
http://aerocommander.com/Tmp/propped_02.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
"Mr. A&P, I get this funny whistling noise when I fly.....can you check it
out?"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:31 PM
Subject: OUCH! OUCH!
> My father just sent me this. Apparently someone tried to hand-prop
> a Saratoga....and succeeded... I've NEVER seen such a thing!
>
> http://aerocommander.com/Tmp/propped_02.jpg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
If you travel way across the Pacific Ocean tracking the migration of tender
flesh that started its life as a 5 metre crocodile from the Arafura Sea and
has since been worked into the middle of California rolls only to be
consumed by jetsetters at PDX and by Nicole Kidman in hiding in SYD... Then
you sure as hell display the worrying symptoms of a RNCP madly searching for
some of the sushi action...determined to find viagra with teeth (Nicole's
that is !). Remember...Sir Barry was my witness!!
Moral of the tale: A true RNCP will routinely consume sushi first... way
before that warm beer!!
PS BigAl... Did Milt email you that he loved meeting Nicole at HIO??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Absolutely, Milt. If you want a contribution to the costs, it would be a pleasure.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:44 PM
Subject: Next year
Next year I'm comin barefoot in bib overalls and a tobacco stained t-shirt. AND
I'm bringin BIG AL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
MARK & JACK,
Ive converted some of the 685 performance charts to XL spreadsheets and downloaded
them to a palmpilot so all you have to do is enter Gross weight , temp,
and pressure altitude and it will calculat takeoff, landing and start stop distances.
Also have converted some power and time to climb charts.
Would you like copies?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
Just a thought, guys and I may be completely off track here, but wouldn't a
company who is in the business of stripping AC's down and rebuilding them be
able to help?
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Campbell <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com>
To: ;
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520
> The list available from the manufacturer is only 12 items on the side of
the
> original W/B.
> It includes some seats, but not the generators, hyd pump, janitrol, etc.,
> let alone instruments,
> etc These items are in turn needed for making up a MEL, which it looks
like
> I wont be able to get. In order to get an accurate weight and moment I
> would have to remove these items, weigh them, find their individual CG,
and
> put back. At this point in the project that would be extremely difficult
> and perhaps trash the whole project.
>
> I cant believe that no one has better info around than that.
>
> Thanks Anyway
>
> Bruce Campbell
> AC52 N4186B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
> To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>
> Date: Friday, August 31, 2001 7:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520
>
>
> >> Bruce Campbell wrote:
> >> Does anyone have an equipment list for a 520 or 560 that I could use
> >> to re-create to one for my plane. It is one of the few pieces of the
> >> puzzle left, and the original is a little terse for the FAA's
> >> taste.... The alternative is to try to research a "bunch of stuff"
> >> that could take a lot of time, etc.
> >
> >Bruce,
> >There was a great article in this months AOPA mag on equip lists.
> >The bottom line is that you need to start with the manufacturers
> >basic equip list, then update it to match your airplane. AOPA
> >suggested (for old airplanes) that you just create a new list using
> >your favorite spreadsheet and starting with the data from the
> >orig one that came with the airplane. Once you have the equip
> >list up to date, this would be a good time to re-weigh the airplane
> >and create a new W&B sheet as well.
> >
> >Chris
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
In a message dated 8/31/2001 6:00:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Just a thought, guys and I may be completely off track here, but wouldn't a
> company who is in the business of stripping AC's down and rebuilding them be
> able to help?
> Thanks
>
Sadly no, not if it has geared piston engines jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
In a message dated 8/31/2001 2:48:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
woodlema(at)intrex.net writes:
> Remember back in 1955 and round about, there were no real regulations as
>
Also remember that you didn't even need a multi engine rateing until about
1962???? It was a better time!!!JB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
In a message dated 8/31/2001 6:00:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Just a thought, guys and I may be completely off track here, but wouldn't a
> company who is in the business of stripping AC's down and rebuilding them be
> able to help?
> Thanks
>
Sadly no, not if it has geared piston engines jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Greetings all,
Thought it might be useful to acknowledge all those Commanders present last
weekend... As listed below...
Sorry Jimbob for missing your serial number, and Sir Barry please apply your
expert eye to the list.
Add or amend if you can... The 690?s are airframes which were tucked away in
the Aero Air #1 hangar.
Have fun guys and dolls
Cheers
Russell
Commanders present at the Aero Air Facility, HIO across the weekend 24 to 26
August:
Type Reg s/n
500 N7846C 724
500A N887BD 1249 -74
(Colemill conversion)
500B N353CC 1230 -105
500B N6367U 1424 -150
500B N6273X 1174 - 90
500B N23KM 1436 - 153
500S N9U 1784 - 2
500S N42ZZ 3323
(second last Shrike built)
500U N67SS 1727 - 30
680E N222JS
680E N680E 859 - 78
685 N685JL
685 N414C 12021
690? N9KG
690? N47TT
690? N66GW
690? N325MM
690? N690CH
690? N823SB
690A N310V
690A N290PF 11290
690A N3WU 11336
690B N690LH 11487
690D N611 15018
695A N85NM 96078
(ex VH-LTN) Operated by Aero Air
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
re:Our beautiful weather
There is very little difference between April(Sun-N-Fun) and July down here. I
think the Sun-N-Fun is a good idea though. If the weather wins out as the determining
factor, October thru March would be my choice.
The very Southern,
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
Cc: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: NEXT YEAR
In a message dated 08/31/01 09:43:16 Pacific Daylight Time,
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net writes:
Do iguanas and palmetto bugs get along?
Don't know about that, but I'm wondering if they can ward off the similar
sized roaches...
After meeting Capt. JimBob's iguana, I'd say it would be a fair match, if
we're counting tail lenght.
Good point about piggy-backing onto Sun n' Fun. That way we don't have to
test anyone's loyalty if they have to shoot their wad on only one trip to
Flori-duh per year.
My only fear is that we have to put this to a vote ... you know how elections
go there ...
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/1/2001 5:32:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> October thru March would be my choice.
HI KIDS...............
Thanks for all the great input. I will talk with both Banyon in
FL and Eagle Creek in IN, the two everybody seems to like best. Assuming we
choose FL, I think Oct would be better than SNF. I have lots of good friends
in the kit industry and would love to visit SNF as a "spectator" instead of
an exhibitor, but...........
It can be difficult to find lodging during the show and everything
costs more, kinda like the Reno air races. Also, tying our event to a
destination airshow can make it tough to get enough time off to really enjoy
either one. Ad to that I like "sir" Barry's idea of having our event the
same weekend each year. Late summer or early fall will help guarantee the
weather will cooperate as the evnt moves around the country. It would make
it a lot easier to plan and remember.
Just my thoughts, lets keep talking. Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnSpray(at)aol.com <CapnSpray(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
I don't want to belabor three years, but It brought back memories because I
was required to have a Multi-eng rating in 1959 - also Inst. Rating same
year. Thanks
capnspray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/1/01 10:23:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
CapnSpray(at)aol.com writes:
> I don't want to belabor three years, but It brought back memories because I
> was required to have a Multi-eng rating in 1959 - also Inst. Rating same
> year.
Yeah ... but probably only because you were operating 4 engines!
;-)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt Concannon
To: Patrick Gisler
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Next year
Pat,
Will send it in a few days. Im working on an instruction sheet on how to use it
and a set of guidelines on how to convert your particular graphs to a spread
sheet formula. It will also be posted for download from Chris,s web site.
You should be able to just change some variables in my formulas for the turbines
as I think the 685 and turboprop manuals were built using similiar test flight
techniques and graphs.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Gisler
To: Milt
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Next year
Milt
Would you consider sharing your spreadsheet design so that us kerosene burners
can build some tools for turbine commanders?
The Iceman
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:44 PM
Subject: Next year
Next year I'm comin barefoot in bib overalls and a tobacco stained t-shirt.
AND I'm bringin BIG AL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
MARK & JACK,
Ive converted some of the 685 performance charts to XL spreadsheets and downloaded
them to a palmpilot so all you have to do is enter Gross weight , temp,
and pressure altitude and it will calculat takeoff, landing and start stop
distances.
Also have converted some power and time to climb charts.
Would you like copies?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Campbell <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eqip list, MEL for 520 |
Actually, the POH is only 9 typewritten pages. A list of Vspeeds (some), a startup
checklist, and the
text of the four placards that are supposed to be in the plane.
I'm personally not too concerned about the whole thing, but the IA is trying to
provide the FAA person involved as little to "let pass" as possible. Hence, I'm
tasked with at least *trying* to document the plane in a "modern" fashion.
By way of explanation, the plane's (very complete) records were destroyed by the
previous mechanic, who has been indicted by DOT for, I believe, 41 counts of
all kinds of stuff. All of the docs have to be reconstructed, and approved by
the local FSDO rep.
The factory (especially Geoffery Pence) has been *extremely* helpful (including
many a dive into the boxes of REALLY OLD DOCUMENTS in the "obsolete" pile), which
I appreciate very much. I also appreciate the feed back I've gotten here,
esp from WingCo Gordon. The fact is that much of this stuff doesn't exist,
a lot does, and a lot can be "inferred" from later record, for example from the
560, which is quite similar in many ways. What we (myself and my IA) are trying
to do is make sure we can say with certainty that we have produced everything
in the last two catagories, and that the rest certainly falls in the first
and cant reasonably be asked for.
I'm assured that this process is nearly over, and that the plane will actually
fly sometime next week with brand new logbooks, AD records, etc.
Then I too, can document some wonderful flights instead of the finer points of
aairworthiness paperwork!
Thanks Again
Bruce A. Campbell
AC52 N4186B
I am glad you spoke those words first. I was going to mention basically the
same thing, and add that the proverbial POH was a laughable joke as compared
to the POH of today. infact there was no real POH, the POH is was basically a
Sales manual with some technical drawings in it.
Remember back in 1955 and round about, there were no real regulations as compared
with today.
Mark
Actually, it's only
________________________________________________________________________________
Here is the first installment, more to come.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES |
I keep hearing about the ability to download realtime weather radar images to the
GNS430 and 530 series. Is there a website or any other source of information
about this?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
I agree JB, Let SNF be it's own show. We have enough to do in Commander
land!!
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 685 performance spreadsheets |
> Milt Concannon wrote:
>
> Chris,
> Could you please post these to your download section. Ive been getting
> a lot of requests from turbine guys.
>
> Do you know Jacks last name and email? He had the other 685 at HIO.
>
>
> Still recovering,
> Milt
All,
Milt has provided a nice spreadsheet which calculates takeoff/landing
distances (and more) for the 685 Commander. I've added it to the
"Documents" section of the web site. You can get there directly at:
http://www.aerocommander.com/Documents/index.html
Thanks Milt! I'm just about recovered, so I'm going to drive 26
hours to Chattanooga and back :-) If all goes as planned and the
airplane looks great, I'll haul one of the engines back to Tulsa with
me for a major overhaul. (I'm pretty sure I can't wedge an IO-720
into the back seat of the Viking!)
Chris
PS: I'll get "Miss Sept" online as soon as I get back. I need a
submition for Oct though!!!! Anyone?!?!?!?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES |
> Milt Concannon wrote:
>
> I keep hearing about the ability to download realtime weather radar
> images to the GNS430 and 530 series. Is there a website or any other
> source of information about this?
>
> Milt
Ah yes....THAT....
One of the reasons I purchased a GNS530 was to get weather info in
my Viking (which obviously can't ever have radar and stormscopes
done't work well in). The scoop is that three companies are involved
(plus the FAA). The players are:
Garmin - must produce certified satelite receiver and software upgrade
Orbcom - LEOS sat service provider
Echoflight - provides the actual "service" and weather data
Garmin keeps missing the deadline on the receiver unit and keeps
pushing the price up. They're now saying they'll have it available
by the end of the year. Orbcom went bankrupt and has now re-orged
and is back in business. Echoflight is most interested in selling
their PDA-based system and isn't quite sure what Garmin is doing.
It'll probably actually happen before too long. Looks like a nice
solution to a number of issues as well. I'm a bit peeved at the
three years of "press releases" promising something that still isn't
available though...
You can read more at
http://www.garmin.com
http://www.echoflight.com
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES |
Having installed a GNS 430 in my AC560, the best option in my opinion, if
you can afford it is to use an existing stormscope that piped the data
directly to the GNS430/530.
This provides real time weather data.
mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To: "Commander Chat"
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES
> > Milt Concannon wrote:
> >
> > I keep hearing about the ability to download realtime weather radar
> > images to the GNS430 and 530 series. Is there a website or any other
> > source of information about this?
> >
> > Milt
>
>
> Ah yes....THAT....
> One of the reasons I purchased a GNS530 was to get weather info in
> my Viking (which obviously can't ever have radar and stormscopes
> done't work well in). The scoop is that three companies are involved
> (plus the FAA). The players are:
>
> Garmin - must produce certified satelite receiver and software upgrade
>
> Orbcom - LEOS sat service provider
>
> Echoflight - provides the actual "service" and weather data
>
> Garmin keeps missing the deadline on the receiver unit and keeps
> pushing the price up. They're now saying they'll have it available
> by the end of the year. Orbcom went bankrupt and has now re-orged
> and is back in business. Echoflight is most interested in selling
> their PDA-based system and isn't quite sure what Garmin is doing.
>
> It'll probably actually happen before too long. Looks like a nice
> solution to a number of issues as well. I'm a bit peeved at the
> three years of "press releases" promising something that still isn't
> available though...
>
> You can read more at
> http://www.garmin.com
> http://www.echoflight.com
>
>
> Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES |
Who can tell me what a Commander 600 S-2D is (it's serial number is
600-1904D)
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Also, what is a Commander 582 serial number 1882?
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
The suggestion I made was indeed to let SNF be it's own show. I suggested
that we consider piggybacking on either the tail or front end - thus
allowing people to get more "bang for the buck." That's the impetus here,
not to compete or participate in SNF. Besides, I don't see "EXPERIMENTAL"
pasted on the side of many AC's. :) Although 680E may have just that in
about 6 months....
Barry Hancock
Precision Flight Networks
(949) 300-5510
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
>
> I agree JB, Let SNF be it's own show. We have enough to do in Commander
> land!!
>
>
> Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 685 performance spreadsheets |
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>
> What is the deadline for Miss Sept?
> Nico
already have sept, but need an oct entry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
JB and Paul,
I have to agree with you both. Let's have our own thing without the hassle
of fighting for accommodations. We can always plan to have a contingent of
Commanders at SNF if enough are interested. As to the site, a vote among the
members WOULD put the most Commanders at the same place at the same time.
The amount of cooperation JB can elicit from the hosting facility might
prove to be the deciding factor for the site, as JB will have to be doing
all of this planning from long range. ( A formidable task indeed! )
Let's see........the cost of a Commander, $55 to 300+K.... the cost of fuel
to attend the Commander Fly-In, $600 to 4000K.......the chance of having the
Fly-In coincide with my Family Reunion where I might be able to pick up
wimmen, PRICELESS!
Crunk
----- Original Message -----
From: <JETPAUL(at)aol.com>
To: ; ; ;
Cc:
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: NEXT YEAR
> I agree JB, Let SNF be it's own show. We have enough to do in Commander
> land!!
>
>
> Paul Reason
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
Where is SNF..I cannot find that airport Identifier anyplace.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net>
To: ; ; ;
Cc:
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:36 AM
Subject: Re: NEXT YEAR
> The suggestion I made was indeed to let SNF be it's own show. I suggested
> that we consider piggybacking on either the tail or front end - thus
> allowing people to get more "bang for the buck." That's the impetus
here,
> not to compete or participate in SNF. Besides, I don't see "EXPERIMENTAL"
> pasted on the side of many AC's. :) Although 680E may have just that in
> about 6 months....
>
> Barry Hancock
> Precision Flight Networks
> (949) 300-5510
> bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
>
>
> >
> > I agree JB, Let SNF be it's own show. We have enough to do in
Commander
> > land!!
> >
> >
> > Paul Reason
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Foss <afoss(at)caw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES |
I just saw an add from aircell that talked about this. The MFD's like the GNS 430
are setup now, but getting a network connection via satellite or ground base
station is the thing to look for. I'd watch aircell and other communications
providers for information on this progress.
A friend who works for cisco has a computer like what Jeppesen sells, he combined
it w/ a cisco wireless IP router that made a satelite connection and had real-time
Internet, weather radar. It wasn't cheap, but it worked well.
andrew
Milt Concannon wrote:
I keep hearing about the ability to download realtime weather radar images to
the GNS430 and 530 series. Is there a website or any other source of information
about this? Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lycoming engines |
Attached is a description of various lycomings and their characteristics. Dont
know if this would be useful to the group or not.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lycoming engines |
It would have helped to attach the list.
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt Concannon
To: Chris Schuerman
Cc: Commander Chat
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: Lycoming engines
Attached is a description of various lycomings and their characteristics. Dont
know if this would be useful to the group or not.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES |
In a message dated 9/1/2001 10:59:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Who can tell me what a Commander 600 S-2D is (it's serial number is
> 600-1904D)
> Thanks
HI NICO...............
I can tell you exactly what that is I have owned one and have
about 5000 hrs in them, and the S2R. It is a Thrush Commander spray plane.
The "600" is the horsepower (R-1340 Prat) The "D" was the last model built
before Rockwell took over and had no flaps, Good airplanes. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Mark,
It's "Sun-n-Fun" held at LAK ( Lakeland, FL)
Crunk
----- Original Message -----
From: Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net>
To:
Cc:
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: NEXT YEAR
> Where is SNF..I cannot find that airport Identifier anyplace.
>
>
> Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Hancock" <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net>
> To: ; ; ;
>
> Cc:
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:36 AM
> Subject: Re: NEXT YEAR
>
>
> > The suggestion I made was indeed to let SNF be it's own show. I
suggested
> > that we consider piggybacking on either the tail or front end - thus
> > allowing people to get more "bang for the buck." That's the impetus
> here,
> > not to compete or participate in SNF. Besides, I don't see
"EXPERIMENTAL"
> > pasted on the side of many AC's. :) Although 680E may have just that
in
> > about 6 months....
> >
> > Barry Hancock
> > Precision Flight Networks
> > (949) 300-5510
> > bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I agree JB, Let SNF be it's own show. We have enough to do in
> Commander
> > > land!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul Reason
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/2/2001 7:26:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
woodlema(at)intrex.net writes:
>
>
HI MARK.........
SNF is short for Sun & Fun. The East coast EAA flyin. It is
held at Lakeland fL in early April.. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES |
In a message dated 9/1/2001 10:59:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Who can tell me what a Commander 600 S-2D is (it's serial number is
> 600-1904D)
> Thanks
HI NICO...............
I can tell you exactly what that is I have owned one and have
about 5000 hrs in them, and the S2R. It is a Thrush Commander spray plane.
The "600" is the horsepower (R-1340 Prat) The "D" was the last model built
before Rockwell took over and had no flaps, Good airplanes. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 09/02/01 06:39:59 Pacific Daylight Time,
crunk12(at)bellsouth.net writes:
> .......the chance of having the
> Fly-In coincide with my Family Reunion where I might be able to pick up
> wimmen, PRICELESS!
>
Let's see if I've got the hang of this.
"If you fly your Commander to a family reunion to pick up wimmen, you might
be a RNCP."
How'd I do?
If any of you good ol' boys know of another facility other than Banyan ya'll
give us a shout.
Banyan is the logical place, but we'd darn shore oughta have an alternate if
they can't (or won't) host.
Having the event in a hangar has proved to be an excellent and economical way
to go. Back in the old days we used swank hotels but it cost big bucks to
rent the meeting rooms and usually got hit with mandatory catering contract$.
Any ideas to help with JimBob's remote-control planning?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 09/02/01 07:26:31 Pacific Daylight Time,
woodlema(at)intrex.net writes:
> Where is SNF..I cannot find that airport Identifier anyplace.
>
I was also about to search the airport data base until I realized it was S n'
F, and in Sun n' Fun -- the AOPA's show.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How to convert charts toExcel |
Chris,
Hope you don't get tired of receiving this stuff but here are the instructions
for converting aircraft charts to a usable spreadsheet format.
You might consider flying to Chatanooga and paying a kid with a rented van to deliver
the engine. I suspect after HIO your business can ill afford your absence.
Is Sandy going to do the rebuild? After seeing his work he'll be rebuilding mine
when the time comes.
Have a safe trip.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES |
Thanks,jb.
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com ; chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: DOWNLOADABLE RADAR IMAGES
In a message dated 9/1/2001 10:59:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Who can tell me what a Commander 600 S-2D is (it's serial number is
600-1904D)
Thanks
HI NICO...............
I can tell you exactly what that is I have owned one and have
about 5000 hrs in them, and the S2R. It is a Thrush Commander spray plane.
The "600" is the horsepower (R-1340 Prat) The "D" was the last model built
before Rockwell took over and had no flaps, Good airplanes. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
I've tried to save you guys a lot of money,but no one seems to listen.Get
youself a Casio PDA,they now have an attachment to get you on the wireless
web,and you can get the Anywhere Map GPS set up,then you will have a backup
GPS equall to any panel mount plus you can get on the web with the same PDA
and get real time weather and have less than 1500 dollars in the whole
outfit!!! BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
Well, in this life there are WAY too many acronyms. INOP, SNF, ROFLMAO, LOL, MCSE,
ACE, PMI, PMP, HVAC, the ones not listed, add that to all the airports identifiers,
the made up ones, the ones we don't think about, the ones yet to be
invented, and now i need to add SNF to my database.
The United States postal Service has a 25 page book typed in 10 point fonts, listing
its acronyms. God only knows how many there really are.
Oh well, SNF=LAK.
Thanks for anwering my question.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: woodlema(at)intrex.net
Cc: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: NEXT YEAR
In a message dated 09/02/01 07:26:31 Pacific Daylight Time,
woodlema(at)intrex.net writes:
Where is SNF..I cannot find that airport Identifier anyplace.
I was also about to search the airport data base until I realized it was S n'
F, and in Sun n' Fun -- the AOPA's show.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
Hell I thought SNF meant skilled nursing facility. Thats where I send my Gomers
that aint well enough to go home and aint sick enough to stay in the hospital
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Woodley
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: NEXT YEAR
Well, in this life there are WAY too many acronyms. INOP, SNF, ROFLMAO, LOL,
MCSE, ACE, PMI, PMP, HVAC, the ones not listed, add that to all the airports
identifiers, the made up ones, the ones we don't think about, the ones yet to
be invented, and now i need to add SNF to my database.
The United States postal Service has a 25 page book typed in 10 point fonts,
listing its acronyms. God only knows how many there really are.
Oh well, SNF=LAK.
Thanks for anwering my question.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: woodlema(at)intrex.net
Cc: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: NEXT YEAR
In a message dated 09/02/01 07:26:31 Pacific Daylight Time,
woodlema(at)intrex.net writes:
Where is SNF..I cannot find that airport Identifier anyplace.
I was also about to search the airport data base until I realized it was S
n'
F, and in Sun n' Fun -- the AOPA's show.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Monk <britmonk(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander 600 S-2D |
Originally Snow S2A single engine monoplane agricultural aircraft
powered by P&W R-1340 600 hp engine. Bought by Rockwell Nov '65 and
became Thrush Commander 600. Program later sold to Ayers Corp.
Derek Monk
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> Who can tell me what a Commander 600 S-2D is (it's serial number is
> 600-1904D)
> Thanks
> Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
re:Ft Lauderdale
The weather is about the same year round there. The only time it is cool is Dec.
15 to Jan 15. I know, I spent the first 37 years of my life 60 miles south
of there. That's before we moved up north(Orlando).
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: woodlema(at)intrex.net
Cc: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: NEXT YEAR
In a message dated 09/02/01 07:26:31 Pacific Daylight Time,
woodlema(at)intrex.net writes:
Where is SNF..I cannot find that airport Identifier anyplace.
I was also about to search the airport data base until I realized it was S n'
F, and in Sun n' Fun -- the AOPA's show.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Parts and Pieces |
I have the following items available if anybody is interested
Shrike nose for a 500 or 680 (will not fit a 520 or short 560)
WX 10A stormscope
Internal control lock for 500, 520, 560, 680
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Wing Commander Gordon,
I reckin' yore gittin' the hang of this here southern culture! Where are yore Momma
and Diddy from? By the way, if a man and wife move from Alabama to Georgia......are
they still man and wife or just brother and sister? Gee, SO much to
learn and SO little time!
Crunk ( Still trying to figure out how to install the chrome naked lady mudflaps
on my 520)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michrandi(at)aol.com <Michrandi(at)aol.com> |
If you fly your Commander to a family reunion and pick
up wimmen, which are your cousins, does that make you
a RNCP ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Ya'll git to know what relative humidity is.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michrandi(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: (no subject)
If you fly your Commander to a family reunion and pick
up wimmen, which are your cousins, does that make you
a RNCP ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Can anyone shed more light on a Commander 680FL airframe serial number 1352?
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Crunkleton
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:52 PM
Subject: RNCP
Wing Commander Gordon,
I reckin' yore gittin' the hang of this here southern culture! Where are yore
Momma and Diddy from? By the way, if a man and wife move from Alabama to Georgia......are
they still man and wife or just brother and sister? Gee, SO much
to learn and SO little time!
Crunk ( Still trying to figure out how to install the chrome naked lady mudflaps
on my 520)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodd Browne <dc8f(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Possibly this is a fact already known to our commander historians but there is
a 690 (I believe) hull behind the fire house at Daytona Beach airport being
used for fire drills. The registration mark is N177DC. Painted out (but still
legible) along the lower sides is the name "Embry Riddle Aeronautical Institute".
I have a couple of pictures if anyone wants them.
rodd
________________________________________________________________________________
If they move to Gawgia they still bes married. If they move to Noo Yawk Theys kin
and caint do it no more. If theys move to californy it dont matter cuz everythins
ok out there.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Crunkleton
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 9:52 PM
Subject: RNCP
Wing Commander Gordon,
I reckin' yore gittin' the hang of this here southern culture! Where are yore
Momma and Diddy from? By the way, if a man and wife move from Alabama to Georgia......are
they still man and wife or just brother and sister? Gee, SO much
to learn and SO little time!
Crunk ( Still trying to figure out how to install the chrome naked lady mudflaps
on my 520)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 09/04/01 00:39:18 Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Can anyone shed more light on a Commander 680FL airframe serial number 1352?
> Thanks
> Nico
>
Sounds like an assignment for Sir Barry. Do you have a registration number
as well? Some of us may know it by that.
~Wing Commander Gordon~
________________________________________________________________________________
The reason for this rather late addition to the accolades already posted is
two-fold.
Firstly, I travelled from Portland to Oklahoma City where I spent a further week
in the US, returning home yesterday.
Secondly, I have trawled through the Concise Oxford Dictionary to find the words
necessary to describe the event at Hillsboro. I found some which 'would do', but
am now certain that in order to express my true feelings, word(s) haven't yet
been defined. I could try great, terrific, fabulous, fantastic, sensational and
other similar ones, but they just wouldn't win a cigar.
Also, inhabitants of Commanderland, I have now rumbled your presence on planet
Earth. I do not know from which planet you all come from, nor the Solar System
or Galaxy, but you cannot be from our humble planet. We just simply are not
capable of breeding beings with such a great attitude to life. All I can say is,
you are welcome to stay for as long as you like. You almost had me fooled that
you were Earthlings, but nobody born on this planet can possibly have the
attributes which you all are obviously blessed with.
Three things gave you away.
First, is the craft you arrived in, known here by us mortal beings as an Aero
Commander. No earthling could have designed and built such a wonderful and
beautiful machine.
Second, is your leader, who you call Capt. Jimbob. No human being can possibly
have been born with such enthusiasm, drive, energy and organisational skills.
Humans can possess some of these attributes, but not all.
Thirdly, the one you call Milt. Such shirts are not made on planet Earth.
But, fear not. I will not be telling US or Australian Immigration - your secret
is safe with me. Should it ever be necessary to leave planet Earth and find
another to bless with your presence, please, please, please, take me with you.
Seriously though, I was totally blown away by the Fly-In. Having met Capt.
Jimbob and spent some time with him when we flew down to Scottsdale last March,
I knew we had an extraordinary leader of the Group. I can only hope that those
who attended Hillsboro can now appreciate the reason for posting my "Ass Chewin"
email. It was evident that Jim dearly wanted the Fly-In to be a success, he was
so fired up about it all, but the support didn't appear to be there for him.
Even people I had met before seemed different to me. The event seemed to bring
an even bigger smile to their faces than I'd seen before.
Capt. Jimbob and Susan deserve all the plaudits which have been posted through
the chatlist, and more. They were, of course, ably assisted by Chad and Jim's
mate Jim Reader. They were, of course, ably supported by the terrific group of
attendees. How he can possibly top Hillsboro at next year's event I do not know,
but one thing is for sure. I'm not missing it!
Thanks must, of course, go to everybody who attended and contributed to such a
great time. I don't really think it fair to single out names, but must pick a
few other than Capt. Jimbob and Susan. Aero Air, of course, for hosting the
event and Kevin, Ken and Swede. The guys (and doll!) from Oz, Richard, Jacqui
and Russell. I thought my journey was long, but to travel all that way is just
extraordinary. Did I really hear Richard say he was bringing his 680E to the
2003 Fly-In? Yes, I did! Also, Milt Concannon for making the journey from
Gulfport in his 685. What a great guy!!
My mind is still reeling from it all. There are memories there which will never,
never ever be lost.
I can only say Thank You, each and every one of you for making this trip the
most enjoyable one I've ever had the pleasure to make. It was truly awesome.
There are so many memories I could write a book about those few days at
Hillsboro. Some great rides with Jimbob in 222JS. Dropping into the Flying M
grass strip for lunch on the way home to Jim's. I'm sure the restaurant emptied
when we left. It seemed they all wanted to watch the departure of Juliet Sierra.
I wonder if they've ever had a Commander there before? The joint take-off from
Hillsboro, with Barry Hancock's 680E and at least a whole film used to shoot
some air-to-air shots. There's more, lots more.
How many people can say they've flown with an Iguana? I can!!
How many other Groups could possibly have such nice people all together at one
event? None!
Again, Thank You to everybody.
Very Sincere Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi gang!
Well, just about back in the harness again. The downside of the trip is that I'm
back at work tomorrow!
Serial 1352 was originally N6333U and was Certificated on October 29th, 1963. It
was exported to South Africa as ZS-RIL by Downtown Airpark in April, 1970 and
to the best of my knowledge, is still there. Was registered to Eigenbau (Pty)
Ltd., in Brixton on February 18th 1992.
If you need anything more specific Nico, please let me know.
Very Best Regards
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Jim Crunkleton ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:14 AM
Subject: Re 680FL
Can anyone shed more light on a Commander 680FL airframe serial number 1352?
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Nico!
I've attached an .xls file showing what I had on the history of serial 1352.
There was one accident I have traced, which happened at Tucson, Arizona, on May
10th, 1966. According to the NTSB brief report, the left main gear torque link
shaft (Part No. ED12406) was missing and the shaft lock bolt was improperly
installed. N6333U made a wheels up landing on a foamed runway. Damage was shown
as 'Substantial', but as you can see, repairs were effected on June 20th 1966.
If you proceed with the purchase, perhaps you will be kind enough to let me know
what the "glass installation" modification was, made on June 16th, 1964. Picture
windows perhaps? Also, I'd like to know the date the Miller nose was added.
Lastly, if you know which Province both Mabopane and Brixton are in, please
let me know!
I cannot help on the matter of flying it back though. I'm not a pilot myself. However,
I'm sure that if you posed the question to Wing Commander Gordon, he'd
be able to help.
Hope this is of interest, Nico and will look forward to seeing 1352 at next year's
Fly-In. This year's was just so good, I cannot wait until the next one. Now
Capt. Jimbob's got one under his belt, fine-tuning will make future ones just
awesome. So many great people there, it was an honour to be in their presence.
Great people, great humour, great food. It couldn't have been better.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Barry Collman
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Re 680FL
Amazing! You do have all the details!. I am interested in buying the plane to
either use it in South Africa when I am down there on business or bring it right
back here to its motherland. I favor the latter of course: still being PO'd
because I couldn't attend the fly-in. Next year, maybe, with this baby.
If you have any details about mishaps, misuse or any other information that would
help me evaluating this plane, I would really appreciate it. I am traveling
to Johannesburg next week and will spend a bit of time with her. There was
an article some time ago (cannot remember who posted it) how to determine that
the gearboxes are still OK, something of a 'kick-tire' type test.
Also, I am contemplating flying her back to the States (if I decide to buy and
bring her back) myself purely because I'd hate to pass up the opportunity to
make such a trip. What do you think? Is it a wise thing to do?
Sorry for all the questions.
I will scan and prepare a storyboard on my straight 500 that I owned in SA for
miss October.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: Re 680FL
Hi gang!
Well, just about back in the harness again. The downside of the trip is that
I'm back at work tomorrow!
Serial 1352 was originally N6333U and was Certificated on October 29th, 1963.
It was exported to South Africa as ZS-RIL by Downtown Airpark in April, 1970
and to the best of my knowledge, is still there. Was registered to Eigenbau
(Pty) Ltd., in Brixton on February 18th 1992.
If you need anything more specific Nico, please let me know.
Very Best Regards
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Jim Crunkleton ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:14 AM
Subject: Re 680FL
Can anyone shed more light on a Commander 680FL airframe serial number 1352?
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Panel pics of my AC-560 |
Delays, Delays, Delays. Exterior still in the almost done stage, but I thought
I would send out some pics of my panel. I don;t think it is too bad for a 1955
airplane.
The center throttle quadrant will be painted like the panel. I cannot wait till
I can get it back and fly it.
________________________________________________________________________________
That's OK Nico and I'm pleased the history was of interest!
I should have known Mabopane was in Botswana and, of course, could have done a
search on the web. I have quite a few other such instances where the State/Province
of some Countries is awaiting detail, but now I have the Internet at home,
I'll engage my brain and get cracking on some of them!
If you can get some up-to-date pictures of 'RIL, I'll be really grateful. If you
do decide to buy it, I've got one shot of 1352 as N6333U and at least eleven
as ZS-RIL. I can scan them and send to you.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Barry Collman
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Re 680FL
Thanks Barry. This guy's gonna wet himself if he sees all of this on his 'plane.
Mabopane used to be the capitol of the Republic of Bophuthatswana, one of the
old homelands of South Africa. I don't know whether it has survived as a city
since the communist ANC take-over in 1994, but in 1988 that would have been about
100 or so miles west of Johannesburg. Brixton is a suburb of Johannesburg
and is about 5 miles west of downtown Johannesburg.
I already have some pictures of RIL (exterior and interior) but I will take more
and let you know when I get back. Perhaps copies of its POH and so on. I'll
see what I can do.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: Nico van Niekerk
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Re 680FL
Hi Nico!
I've attached an .xls file showing what I had on the history of serial 1352.
There was one accident I have traced, which happened at Tucson, Arizona, on
May 10th, 1966. According to the NTSB brief report, the left main gear torque
link shaft (Part No. ED12406) was missing and the shaft lock bolt was improperly
installed. N6333U made a wheels up landing on a foamed runway. Damage was
shown as 'Substantial', but as you can see, repairs were effected on June 20th
1966.
If you proceed with the purchase, perhaps you will be kind enough to let me
know what the "glass installation" modification was, made on June 16th, 1964.
Picture windows perhaps? Also, I'd like to know the date the Miller nose was
added. Lastly, if you know which Province both Mabopane and Brixton are in, please
let me know!
I cannot help on the matter of flying it back though. I'm not a pilot myself.
However, I'm sure that if you posed the question to Wing Commander Gordon,
he'd be able to help.
Hope this is of interest, Nico and will look forward to seeing 1352 at next
year's Fly-In. This year's was just so good, I cannot wait until the next one.
Now Capt. Jimbob's got one under his belt, fine-tuning will make future ones
just awesome. So many great people there, it was an honour to be in their presence.
Great people, great humour, great food. It couldn't have been better.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Barry Collman
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Re 680FL
Amazing! You do have all the details!. I am interested in buying the plane
to either use it in South Africa when I am down there on business or bring it
right back here to its motherland. I favor the latter of course: still being
PO'd because I couldn't attend the fly-in. Next year, maybe, with this baby.
If you have any details about mishaps, misuse or any other information that
would help me evaluating this plane, I would really appreciate it. I am traveling
to Johannesburg next week and will spend a bit of time with her. There
was an article some time ago (cannot remember who posted it) how to determine
that the gearboxes are still OK, something of a 'kick-tire' type test.
Also, I am contemplating flying her back to the States (if I decide to buy
and bring her back) myself purely because I'd hate to pass up the opportunity
to make such a trip. What do you think? Is it a wise thing to do?
Sorry for all the questions.
I will scan and prepare a storyboard on my straight 500 that I owned in SA
for miss October.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: Re 680FL
Hi gang!
Well, just about back in the harness again. The downside of the trip is
that I'm back at work tomorrow!
Serial 1352 was originally N6333U and was Certificated on October 29th,
1963. It was exported to South Africa as ZS-RIL by Downtown Airpark in April,
1970 and to the best of my knowledge, is still there. Was registered to Eigenbau
(Pty) Ltd., in Brixton on February 18th 1992.
If you need anything more specific Nico, please let me know.
Very Best Regards
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Jim Crunkleton ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:14 AM
Subject: Re 680FL
Can anyone shed more light on a Commander 680FL airframe serial number
1352?
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel pics of my AC-560 |
very nice
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Woodley
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:30 PM
Subject: Panel pics of my AC-560
Delays, Delays, Delays. Exterior still in the almost done stage, but I thought
I would send out some pics of my panel. I don;t think it is too bad for a
1955 airplane.
The center throttle quadrant will be painted like the panel. I cannot wait till
I can get it back and fly it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Barry Collman wrote:
> I have trawled through the Concise Oxford Dictionary to find the words
> necessary to describe the event at Hillsboro.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidotious!
cs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Hi Nico!
I haven't seen a response to your request on this one, so thought I'd 'have
a stab'.
I believe the Commander 582 is a amateur-built rotocraft, powered by a
Rotax engine. And, no, I'm not going to include them on my database!
Further info can be found at:
http://www.airsport.com/kits/k582.htm
Best Regards,
Barry C.
Nico van Niekerk
,
Chris
store.com> Schuermann ,
Commander Chat
02/09/2001 06:42
cc:
Subject: AC 582?
Also, what is a Commander 582 serial number 1882?
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
> Barry Collman wrote:
>> I have trawled through the Concise Oxford Dictionary to find the words
>> necessary to describe the event at Hillsboro.
>
> Supercalifragilisticexpialidotious!
>
> cs
G'day Chris,
Just thought I'd announce you as the most adventurous speller of the week!
It's just the Principal coming out in me...
Cheers and beers
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
> Milt,
>
> This lil Ozzie is finding the interpretations more and more difficult...will
> things ever return to normal again...playyyze!
>
> Russell
> (closeted in the dictionary section of an ozzie library...somewhere on the
> south side!)
>
>
> If they move to Gawgia they still bes married. If they move to Noo Yawk Theys
> kin and caint do it no more. If theys move to californy it dont matter cuz
> everythins ok out there.
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jim Crunkleton <mailto:crunk12(at)bellsouth.net>
>> To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 9:52 PM
>> Subject: RNCP
>>
>> Wing Commander Gordon,
>> I reckin' yore gittin' the hang of this here southern culture! Where are yore
>> Momma and Diddy from? By the way, if a man and wife move from Alabama to
>> Georgia......are they still man and wife or just brother and sister? Gee, SO
>> much to learn and SO little time!
>> Crunk ( Still trying to figure out how to install the chrome naked lady
>> mudflaps on my 520)
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
I found this lurking in the back of the AOPA magazine the other day and
thought it might be of use to some.
http://www.aircraftbelts.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Allen Reed wrote:
>
> I've tried to save you guys a lot of money,but no one seems to listen.Get
> youself a Casio PDA,they now have an attachment to get you on the wireless
> web
Allen,
That would be a very nice way to do it if there was some way to
get the data to the airplane, I agree. Sadly, there is no such
thing as the "wireless web" yet... I know that there are several
major companies attempting to provide some reasonable coverage, but
at this time it's mostly just a pipe dream.
cs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Chris,I know I am probably the dumbest person in the group,but before I am
judged so,you need to check the Casio web site,under Cassiopea and read
there latest release.Yes It does state that weather can be accessed through
their wireless receiver attached to the Casio. Thanks for your support.
Allen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Thanks, Chief. I agree, this one does not belong on your database. Any
Commander that you can buy for $995 new does not belong here. :-)
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: AC 582?
>
> Hi Nico!
>
> I haven't seen a response to your request on this one, so thought I'd
'have
> a stab'.
>
> I believe the Commander 582 is a amateur-built rotocraft, powered by a
> Rotax engine. And, no, I'm not going to include them on my database!
>
> Further info can be found at:
>
> http://www.airsport.com/kits/k582.htm
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Barry C.
>
>
> Nico van Niekerk
> , Chris
> store.com> Schuermann
,
> Commander Chat
> 02/09/2001 06:42
> cc:
> Subject: AC 582?
>
>
> Also, what is a Commander 582 serial number 1882?
> Nico
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
No problem Nico, but the kit does actually cost $10,471. The $995 is
additional to that, for a two-place option. Big deal!!
They cannot spell propeller correctly though!!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
Nico van Niekerk
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk
cc:
05/09/2001 15:31 Subject: Re: AC 582?
Thanks, Chief. I agree, this one does not belong on your database. Any
Commander that you can buy for $995 new does not belong here. :-)
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: AC 582?
>
> Hi Nico!
>
> I haven't seen a response to your request on this one, so thought I'd
'have
> a stab'.
>
> I believe the Commander 582 is a amateur-built rotocraft, powered by a
> Rotax engine. And, no, I'm not going to include them on my database!
>
> Further info can be found at:
>
> http://www.airsport.com/kits/k582.htm
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Barry C.
>
>
> Nico van Niekerk
> , Chris
> store.com> Schuermann
,
> Commander Chat
> 02/09/2001 06:42
> cc:
> Subject: AC 582?
>
>
> Also, what is a Commander 582 serial number 1882?
> Nico
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Taylor" <douglast(at)thorit.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: VB resume
> Hello Nico
> Here is 1 more for you to review
> Thank you
>
> DOUGLAS TAYLOR
> SERVICE MANAGER
> THOR
> 818-710-1800
> douglast(at)thorit.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Allen Reed wrote:
>
> Chris,I know I am probably the dumbest person in the group
Not at all Allen! I'm actually very familiar with the Casio offering.
It was my company that designed the "wireless backpack" for Casio!
The only problem is that all of the folks who are spouting great
press releases about "wireless access" are not providing the
whole picture... The issue is that in the US, wireless access
is only available in a very few areas and with very limited
range. If you have wireless access (for example) in Houston Tx,
it will ONLY work in Houston. You'd need to subscribe to a
different service in any other city. Unlike the cell phone network
which "hands off" between service provides, the internet data
networks have no such ability. Echoflight uses the Orbcom Sat
network to transmit data and it will work anywhere. It's substantially
more expensive of course and they still don't have a certified
tranceiver available for aircraft use yet, but at least their
handheld device IS up and running. The data you get through
echoflight is horribly compressed however to cut the sat airtime
costs. It's nowhere near the quality you'd get over your normal
internet connection. (actually, you COULD get that quality, but
it would cost several hundred dollars to pull up a web page).
There are a number of companies which are trying to build out
a nation-wide terrestial wireless network, but at this time there
is only spotty coverage. I think we WILL have this technology
in the future, but I'm not going to guess when you'll actually
be able to get quality weather info in pseudo-realtime to your
airplane....
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tylor Hall" <tylorh(at)sound.net>
To: ;
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 7:51 AM
Subject: RE: images
> I just ran across Echo Flight.
> http://www.echoflight.com/index.html
> They have the Data Link Transceiver and GPS that can be installed in your
> aircraft and feed your lap top or their handheld or fixed MFD.
> You also need to subscribe to the service.
> Includes real time weather, terrain, traffic, GPS moving map and charts.
>
> A friend with a Palm VII that had wireless web was able to get e-mail in
his
> Aerostar and in airliners.
>
> No, Big Al you are not dumb! You are uninhibited and open to many new
> ideas.
>
> Any body going to NBAA in New Orleans later this month??
>
> Regards,
>
> Tylor Hall
> tylorh(at)sound.net
> 913-422-8869
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Schuermann [mailto:chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 9:00 AM
> To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Subject: Re: images
>
>
> Allen Reed wrote:
> >
> > I've tried to save you guys a lot of money,but no one seems to
listen.Get
> > youself a Casio PDA,they now have an attachment to get you on the
wireless
> > web
>
> Allen,
> That would be a very nice way to do it if there was some way to
> get the data to the airplane, I agree. Sadly, there is no such
> thing as the "wireless web" yet... I know that there are several
> major companies attempting to provide some reasonable coverage, but
> at this time it's mostly just a pipe dream.
>
> cs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/5/01 7:53:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> . Any
> Commander that you can buy for $995 new does not belong here. :-)
>
Careful now, That is about what I paid for triple 2 (and it was tooooo
much!!) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | THERE EVERYWHERE |
HI KIDS.............
Just got home from a busy week with the biplane. Took a little
flight to Harvey field north of SEA for lunch with some friends from Idaho.
Pokeing around the hangars found a Commander (The hangar looked to small from
the outside). N2774B was carefully parked inside. Looks like a 560A?? It
is completely stock (no winglets, noses even still has Goodyears) Not a
gorgeous example but nice and clean. It was to dark to take a picture
through the window (sorry Barry).
Hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Martyn <vertigo(at)whidbey.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for Demo Flight in Seattle Area |
I'm new to this list and wondering if any of you folks in the Seattle
area might be willing to take me for a short demo flight in your Twin
Commander if I pay for fuel.
I may be selling my Twin Bonanza soon and I'm very interested in
acquiring a Commander next, but I haven't flown in any yet to know if
this is the right aircraft for me.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Jim Martyn
Oak Harbor, WA (76S)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Demo Flight in Seattle Area |
Big difference. Twin commander has some performance you cannot get in any other
aircraft.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Martyn
To: AeroCommander List
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:00 AM
Subject: Looking for Demo Flight in Seattle Area
I'm new to this list and wondering if any of you folks in the Seattle area might
be willing to take me for a short demo flight in your Twin Commander if I
pay for fuel.
I may be selling my Twin Bonanza soon and I'm very interested in acquiring a
Commander next, but I haven't flown in any yet to know if this is the right aircraft
for me.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Jim Martyn
Oak Harbor, WA (76S)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: THERE EVERYWHERE |
Hi All!
N2774B is, as our leader surmised, a Model 560A. Serial 274 was
Certificated on December 6th 1955 and was modified to a Model HC560A, with
GO-480-G1B6 engines, on September 22nd, 1967. Currently appears to be owned
by Frank G Welch, of Woodinville, WA.
Great to know that another old Commander is still alive and well.
Thanks for the "Roving Report" Jim.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
UK Commanderland Rep.
YOURTCFG@aol.
com To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
cc:
05/09/2001 Subject: THERE EVERYWHERE
16:59
HI KIDS.............
Just got home from a busy week with the biplane. Took a little
flight to Harvey field north of SEA for lunch with some friends from Idaho.
Pokeing around the hangars found a Commander (The hangar looked to small
from
the outside). N2774B was carefully parked inside. Looks like a 560A?? It
is completely stock (no winglets, noses even still has Goodyears) Not a
gorgeous example but nice and clean. It was to dark to take a picture
through the window (sorry Barry).
Hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Demo Flight in Seattle Area |
> Jim Martyn wrote:
> I may be selling my Twin Bonanza soon and I'm very interested in
> acquiring a Commander next, but I haven't flown in any yet to know if
> this is the right aircraft for me.
Howdy Jim. I consider T-bone owners to be "kindred spirits" :-)
Your hearing (what's left of it) is already attuned to the sound
of a pair of geared Lycs with augmentor tubes so you would be
right at home in an older Commander.
Just curious - what is your motivation for changing to a Commander?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Self-fly or ferry |
Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a moment.
I am interested in buying a 680FL in South Africa and I may keep it in SA for use
when I am down there, or bring it back to the States (for next year's fly-in?)
Now, here's my question: what is best, fly it back myself or have it ferried back?
I realize that there are a host of things and red-tape that has to be taken care
of when one self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but it would be
a rare adventure too, which is what I don't want to pass up if it can be helped.
If anybody has experience with flying over several countries (not behind some pro
jocks) and especially between South Africa and the US, some feedback and advice
would be really helpful. My greatest concern is flying over or landing in
politically unstable countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east coast,
the center, or the west coast of Africa. Once we are in Europe we should be
safe from that problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks installed to have minimum
ground contact over Africa or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane before
leaving or fly it to the States with its SA registration and switch here.
So many questions...
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
Hi Nico
I tried to sent an e-mail but it didn't work
--- Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a
> moment.
> I am interested in buying a 680FL in South Africa
> and I may keep it in SA for use when I am down
> there, or bring it back to the States (for next
> year's fly-in?)
> Now, here's my question: what is best, fly it back
> myself or have it ferried back?
> I realize that there are a host of things and
> red-tape that has to be taken care of when one
> self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but
> it would be a rare adventure too, which is what I
> don't want to pass up if it can be helped.
> If anybody has experience with flying over several
> countries (not behind some pro jocks) and especially
> between South Africa and the US, some feedback and
> advice would be really helpful. My greatest concern
> is flying over or landing in politically unstable
> countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east
> coast, the center, or the west coast of Africa. Once
> we are in Europe we should be safe from that
> problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks
> installed to have minimum ground contact over Africa
> or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane before leaving
> or fly it to the States with its SA registration and
> switch here.
> So many questions...
> Nico
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
Hi Nico
I've read your story of buying an Commander in SA.
I can help you in bringing it over. My background is a
retired airline pilot with the last 10 years on the
Boeing 747-400 with a Dutch company(KLM). I've flown
well in SA and did also lots of ocean crossings to the
US. At this moment I have an FAA PPL ME and some hours
experience on the Commander 680. I bought one myself
in Florida in august this year. More to come!
If I can assist you please do not hesitate in
e-mailing me.
Regards
Frits Abbing
--- Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a
> moment.
> I am interested in buying a 680FL in South Africa
> and I may keep it in SA for use when I am down
> there, or bring it back to the States (for next
> year's fly-in?)
> Now, here's my question: what is best, fly it back
> myself or have it ferried back?
> I realize that there are a host of things and
> red-tape that has to be taken care of when one
> self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but
> it would be a rare adventure too, which is what I
> don't want to pass up if it can be helped.
> If anybody has experience with flying over several
> countries (not behind some pro jocks) and especially
> between South Africa and the US, some feedback and
> advice would be really helpful. My greatest concern
> is flying over or landing in politically unstable
> countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east
> coast, the center, or the west coast of Africa. Once
> we are in Europe we should be safe from that
> problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks
> installed to have minimum ground contact over Africa
> or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane before leaving
> or fly it to the States with its SA registration and
> switch here.
> So many questions...
> Nico
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
This info is 20 years old. When I was in Tanzania you could not fly from South
Africa directly to Tanzania. It was politically impossible. I know there are
others that are the same way. "You can't get there from here" That might be
where an "N" number might be good. However a GB might be better.
To me an adventure is civilized departure point to civilized arrival point. The
first half of your trip sounds more like a "Mission"
A Big OLD Wuss
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: AeroCommander List
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:42 AM
Subject: Self-fly or ferry
Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a moment.
I am interested in buying a 680FL in South Africa and I may keep it in SA for
use when I am down there, or bring it back to the States (for next year's fly-in?)
Now, here's my question: what is best, fly it back myself or have it ferried
back?
I realize that there are a host of things and red-tape that has to be taken care
of when one self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but it would
be a rare adventure too, which is what I don't want to pass up if it can be helped.
If anybody has experience with flying over several countries (not behind some
pro jocks) and especially between South Africa and the US, some feedback and
advice would be really helpful. My greatest concern is flying over or landing
in politically unstable countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east coast,
the center, or the west coast of Africa. Once we are in Europe we should be
safe from that problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks installed to have
minimum ground contact over Africa or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane before
leaving or fly it to the States with its SA registration and switch here.
So many questions...
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Foss <afoss(at)caw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
My advice is pay jeppesen or some other international flight planning service,
regardless of who pilots!
andrew
"w.bow" wrote:
This info is 20 years old. When I was in Tanzania you could not fly from South
Africa directly to Tanzania. It was politically impossible. I know there
are others that are the same way. "You can't get there from here" That might
be where an "N" number might be good. However a GB might be better. To me an
adventure is civilized departure point to civilized arrival point. The first
half of your trip sounds more like a "Mission" A Big OLD Wussbilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: AeroCommander List
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:42 AM
Subject: Self-fly or ferry
Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a moment.I am interested in
buying a 680FL in South Africa and I may keep it in SA for use when I am down
there, or bring it back to the States (for next year's fly-in?)Now, here's my
question: what is best, fly it back myself or have it ferried back?I realize
that there are a host of things and red-tape that has to be taken care of when
one self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but it would be a rare adventure
too, which is what I don't want to pass up if it can be helped.If anybody
has experience with flying over several countries (not behind some pro jocks)
and especially between South Africa and the US, some feedback and advice
would be really helpful. My greatest concern is flying over or landing in politically
unstable countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east coast, the
center, or the west coast of Africa. Once we are in Europe we should be safe
from that problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks installed to have minimum
ground contact over Africa or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane before leaving
or fly it to the States with its SA registration and switch here.So many questions...Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
Things have changed a lot from 20 years ago and one cannot help but wonder if 'N'
numbered planes are more at a disadvantage than 'ZS' (South African) planes
especially when flying over Arab countries. With a ferry tank the 680FL could
have a 2000 nm range, which could take it from Durban FADN (sea level take off)
to the south of France with perhaps one or two fuel stops.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: w.bow
To: Nico van Niekerk ; AeroCommander List
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
This info is 20 years old. When I was in Tanzania you could not fly from South
Africa directly to Tanzania. It was politically impossible. I know there
are others that are the same way. "You can't get there from here" That might
be where an "N" number might be good. However a GB might be better.
To me an adventure is civilized departure point to civilized arrival point.
The first half of your trip sounds more like a "Mission"
A Big OLD Wuss
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: AeroCommander List
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:42 AM
Subject: Self-fly or ferry
Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a moment.
I am interested in buying a 680FL in South Africa and I may keep it in SA for
use when I am down there, or bring it back to the States (for next year's fly-in?)
Now, here's my question: what is best, fly it back myself or have it ferried
back?
I realize that there are a host of things and red-tape that has to be taken
care of when one self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but it would
be a rare adventure too, which is what I don't want to pass up if it can be
helped.
If anybody has experience with flying over several countries (not behind some
pro jocks) and especially between South Africa and the US, some feedback and
advice would be really helpful. My greatest concern is flying over or landing
in politically unstable countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east coast,
the center, or the west coast of Africa. Once we are in Europe we should
be safe from that problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks installed to have
minimum ground contact over Africa or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane before
leaving or fly it to the States with its SA registration and switch here.
So many questions...
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | blake hermel <bhermel(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
Just curious, but, Wouldnt a 2,000 mile trip burn alot of oil???
Blake Hermel
>From: Nico van Niekerk
>To: "w.bow" , AeroCommander List
>Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
>Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:15:41 -0700
>
>Things have changed a lot from 20 years ago and one cannot help but wonder if
'N' numbered planes are more at a disadvantage than 'ZS' (South African) planes
especially when flying over Arab countries. With a ferry tank the 680FL could
have a 2000 nm range, which could take it from Durban FADN (sea level take off)
to the south of France with perhaps one or two fuel stops.
>Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: w.bow
> To: Nico van Niekerk ; AeroCommander List
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
>
>
> This info is 20 years old. When I was in Tanzania you could not fly from South
Africa directly to Tanzania. It was politically impossible. I know there are
others that are the same way. "You can't get there from here" That might be where
an "N" number might be good. However a GB might be better.
>
> To me an adventure is civilized departure point to civilized arrival point. The
first half of your trip sounds more like a "Mission"
>
> A Big OLD Wuss
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nico van Niekerk
> To: AeroCommander List
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:42 AM
> Subject: Self-fly or ferry
>
>
> Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a moment.
> I am interested in buying a 680FL in South Africa and I may keep it in SA for
use when I am down there, or bring it back to the States (for next year's fly-in?)
> Now, here's my question: what is best, fly it back myself or have it ferried
back?
> I realize that there are a host of things and red-tape that has to be taken care
of when one self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but it would
be a rare adventure too, which is what I don't want to pass up if it can be helped.
> If anybody has experience with flying over several countries (not behind some
pro jocks) and especially between South Africa and the US, some feedback and
advice would be really helpful. My greatest concern is flying over or landing
in politically unstable countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east coast,
the center, or the west coast of Africa. Once we are in Europe we should be
safe from that problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks installed to have
minimum ground contact over Africa or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane before
leaving or fly it to the States with its SA registration and switch here.
> So many questions...
> Nico
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
All,
I received the following request which I think is a great idea. I'll
need YOUR help in filling it though.
I will start a list immediatly. Please send your submitions directly
to me for addition...
Chris
----snip--------
Would it be possible to have a list of services and suppliers that
have
been used by individuals in the group. And maybe a satisfaction rating
with
it. Some comments like expensive or cheap or fast or slow. Something
like
the Insurance survey maybe?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | blake hermel <bhermel(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
Nico,need a copilot........Blake
>From: "Nico van Niekerk"
>To: "blake hermel" , ,
>Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
>Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 13:22:32 -0700
>
>Yes it would. The installation of ferry tanks usually also include the installation
of a manual oil replenishing system, pumping oil at a predetermined rate
of say, 1 quart of oil every two hours, or so, depending on the need of the engines.
>Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: blake hermel
> To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com ; w.bow(at)att.net ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
>
>
> Just curious, but, Wouldnt a 2,000 mile trip burn alot of oil???
>
> Blake Hermel
>
> >From: Nico van Niekerk
> >To: "w.bow" , AeroCommander List
> >Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
> >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:15:41 -0700
> >
> >Things have changed a lot from 20 years ago and one cannot help but wonder if
'N' numbered planes are more at a disadvantage than 'ZS' (South African) planes
especially when flying over Arab countries. With a ferry tank the 680FL could
have a 2000 nm range, which could take it from Durban FADN (sea level take
off) to the south of France with perhaps one or two fuel stops.
> >Nico
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: w.bow
> > To: Nico van Niekerk ; AeroCommander List
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
> >
> >
> > This info is 20 years old. When I was in Tanzania you could not fly from South
Africa directly to Tanzania. It was politically impossible. I know there are
others that are the same way. "You can't get there from here" That might be
where an "N" number might be good. However a GB might be better.
> >
> > To me an adventure is civilized departure point to civilized arrival point.
The first half of your trip sounds more like a "Mission"
> >
> > A Big OLD Wuss
> > bilbo
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Nico van Niekerk
> > To: AeroCommander List
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:42 AM
> > Subject: Self-fly or ferry
> >
> >
> > Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a moment.
> > I am interested in buying a 680FL in South Africa and I may keep it in SA for
use when I am down there, or bring it back to the States (for next year's fly-in?)
> > Now, here's my question: what is best, fly it back myself or have it ferried
back?
> > I realize that there are a host of things and red-tape that has to be taken
care of when one self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but it would
be a rare adventure too, which is what I don't want to pass up if it can be
helped.
> > If anybody has experience with flying over several countries (not behind some
pro jocks) and especially between South Africa and the US, some feedback and
advice would be really helpful. My greatest concern is flying over or landing
in politically unstable countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east coast,
the center, or the west coast of Africa. Once we are in Europe we should
be safe from that problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks installed to have
minimum ground contact over Africa or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane before
leaving or fly it to the States with its SA registration and switch here.
> > So many questions...
> > Nico
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
Yes it would. The installation of ferry tanks usually also include the installation
of a manual oil replenishing system, pumping oil at a predetermined rate
of say, 1 quart of oil every two hours, or so, depending on the need of the engines.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: blake hermel
To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com ; w.bow(at)att.net ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
Just curious, but, Wouldnt a 2,000 mile trip burn alot of oil???
Blake Hermel
>From: Nico van Niekerk
>To: "w.bow" , AeroCommander List
>Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
>Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:15:41 -0700
>
>Things have changed a lot from 20 years ago and one cannot help but wonder if
'N' numbered planes are more at a disadvantage than 'ZS' (South African) planes
especially when flying over Arab countries. With a ferry tank the 680FL could
have a 2000 nm range, which could take it from Durban FADN (sea level take
off) to the south of France with perhaps one or two fuel stops.
>Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: w.bow
> To: Nico van Niekerk ; AeroCommander List
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
>
>
> This info is 20 years old. When I was in Tanzania you could not fly from South
Africa directly to Tanzania. It was politically impossible. I know there are
others that are the same way. "You can't get there from here" That might be
where an "N" number might be good. However a GB might be better.
>
> To me an adventure is civilized departure point to civilized arrival point.
The first half of your trip sounds more like a "Mission"
>
> A Big OLD Wuss
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nico van Niekerk
> To: AeroCommander List
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:42 AM
> Subject: Self-fly or ferry
>
>
> Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a moment.
> I am interested in buying a 680FL in South Africa and I may keep it in SA for
use when I am down there, or bring it back to the States (for next year's fly-in?)
> Now, here's my question: what is best, fly it back myself or have it ferried
back?
> I realize that there are a host of things and red-tape that has to be taken
care of when one self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but it would
be a rare adventure too, which is what I don't want to pass up if it can be
helped.
> If anybody has experience with flying over several countries (not behind some
pro jocks) and especially between South Africa and the US, some feedback and
advice would be really helpful. My greatest concern is flying over or landing
in politically unstable countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east coast,
the center, or the west coast of Africa. Once we are in Europe we should
be safe from that problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks installed to have
minimum ground contact over Africa or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane before
leaving or fly it to the States with its SA registration and switch here.
> So many questions...
> Nico
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/6/01 1:28:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> Would it be possible to have a list of services and suppliers that
> have
> been used by individuals in the group. And maybe a satisfaction rating
> with
> it.
HI KIDS...........
I have used the services of almost all of the advertisers in the
Flight Group News and found them to be reliable. capt jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Foss <afoss(at)caw.com> |
Morris Kernick, Commander Services, Hayward, CA!
He's quite a character, his shop is a mess, he's hired some poor mechanics, he's
terrible w/ paperwork, a few people bad mouth him...
He knows more about our airplanes and has more passion for them than anyone. He's
fixed more stuff on my airplane than others continually seem to be able to
f%$! up. Even he can't always fix things as easily and quickly as he'd like, but
he really wants to!
I wouldn't want to operate my airplane w/ my friends and family in it without him!
andrew
PS
He's also a great source of humurous quotes...
"The problem was located 14" behind and 12" to the left of the power quadrant..."
"If you can see the other end of the runway it's not long enough..."
"When you push on the levers, you darn well better be pointed in the right direction..."
"Even a barn door can fly with enough power..."
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/6/01 1:28:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
Would it be possible to have a list of services and suppliers that
have
been used by individuals in the group. And maybe a satisfaction rating
with
it.
HI KIDS...........
I have used the services of almost all of the advertisers in the
Flight Group News and found them to be reliable. capt jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Another couple of quotes from Morris...
"Too much power... is just about right".
"If you don't mind the red levers, you may find yourself piling up a stack of dead
presidents".
Or, about my 680F...
"Just imagine a line of 55 gallon barrels full of fuel sitting along the top of
your wing...and just pushing one off every hour of so..."
"With a 680F, it'll climb at 140 knots and 1000 fpm with the seats full of anvil
salesmen...and their samples".
Wouldn't take my airplane to anyone else.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Foss
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Cc: chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Request
Morris Kernick, Commander Services, Hayward, CA!
He's quite a character, his shop is a mess, he's hired some poor mechanics, he's
terrible w/ paperwork, a few people bad mouth him...
He knows more about our airplanes and has more passion for them than anyone.
He's fixed more stuff on my airplane than others continually seem to be able to
f%$! up. Even he can't always fix things as easily and quickly as he'd like,
but he really wants to!
I wouldn't want to operate my airplane w/ my friends and family in it without
him!
andrew
PS
He's also a great source of humurous quotes...
"The problem was located 14" behind and 12" to the left of the power quadrant..."
"If you can see the other end of the runway it's not long enough..."
"When you push on the levers, you darn well better be pointed in the right direction..."
"Even a barn door can fly with enough power..."
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/6/01 1:28:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
Would it be possible to have a list of services and suppliers that
have
been used by individuals in the group. And maybe a satisfaction rating
with
it.
HI KIDS...........
I have used the services of almost all of the advertisers in the
Flight Group News and found them to be reliable. capt jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Gisler <patrick(at)gislermgmt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
Nico, For a modest fee, uvair provides everything from weather to lunch for such
adventures. If it were me, I'd fly it myself. Life is short, and all they can
do is steal your airplane and torture you to near death. The Iceman
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: blake hermel ; w.bow(at)att.net ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
Yes it would. The installation of ferry tanks usually also include the installation
of a manual oil replenishing system, pumping oil at a predetermined rate
of say, 1 quart of oil every two hours, or so, depending on the need of the
engines.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: blake hermel
To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com ; w.bow(at)att.net ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
Just curious, but, Wouldnt a 2,000 mile trip burn alot of oil???
Blake Hermel
>From: Nico van Niekerk
>To: "w.bow" , AeroCommander List
>Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
>Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:15:41 -0700
>
>Things have changed a lot from 20 years ago and one cannot help but wonder
if 'N' numbered planes are more at a disadvantage than 'ZS' (South African) planes
especially when flying over Arab countries. With a ferry tank the 680FL
could have a 2000 nm range, which could take it from Durban FADN (sea level take
off) to the south of France with perhaps one or two fuel stops.
>Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: w.bow
> To: Nico van Niekerk ; AeroCommander List
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
>
>
> This info is 20 years old. When I was in Tanzania you could not fly from
South Africa directly to Tanzania. It was politically impossible. I know there
are others that are the same way. "You can't get there from here" That might
be where an "N" number might be good. However a GB might be better.
>
> To me an adventure is civilized departure point to civilized arrival point.
The first half of your trip sounds more like a "Mission"
>
> A Big OLD Wuss
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nico van Niekerk
> To: AeroCommander List
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:42 AM
> Subject: Self-fly or ferry
>
>
> Folks, I need to pick someone's brain here for a moment.
> I am interested in buying a 680FL in South Africa and I may keep it in SA
for use when I am down there, or bring it back to the States (for next year's
fly-in?)
> Now, here's my question: what is best, fly it back myself or have it ferried
back?
> I realize that there are a host of things and red-tape that has to be taken
care of when one self-drives an aircraft halfway accros the globe but it would
be a rare adventure too, which is what I don't want to pass up if it can be
helped.
> If anybody has experience with flying over several countries (not behind
some pro jocks) and especially between South Africa and the US, some feedback
and advice would be really helpful. My greatest concern is flying over or landing
in politically unstable countries in Africa. Do we go north along the east
coast, the center, or the west coast of Africa. Once we are in Europe we should
be safe from that problem, I think. Should I have ferry tanks installed to
have minimum ground contact over Africa or not. Should I 'N'-number the plane
before leaving or fly it to the States with its SA registration and switch here.
> So many questions...
> Nico
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
In a message dated 09/06/01 13:12:27 Pacific Daylight Time,
bhermel(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Just curious, but, Wouldnt a 2,000 mile trip burn alot of oil???
Yes! Take a peek at the article on the Commander web site about my trip to
Pago Pago from Oakland, California for some insight on fuel and oil
consumption.
Nico,
In today's climate a GB registration (or Canadian) is probably as good as it
gets ... French would be good but probably more trouble than it's worth to
obtain. They are French, after all.
Call or email Denny Craig. He frequently pulls Raytheon products out of
South Africa (BE-1900s, BE-58, etc.) and brings them back to Europe and the
U.S.
This is his full time business, so don't expect all this trade secrets, but
he'll give you his take on the current shoot-down climate, etc.
Denny Craig
Aviation Services International
P.O. Box 2785
Fairfield, CA 94533
office: 707-448-5138*** use this
fax: 707-448-7769
Res: 707-425-0430
dcraigfly(at)aol.com
If you have the spare time, it will be one of the great adventures (or
missions) of your life -- although I think you've had plenty already. (Nice
to rev up the adrenal glands now and then, eh?)
If you're busy managing your financial empire, employ a pro like Mr. Craig.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Miss Sept online |
Miss September 2001 - bilbo's 500A is now showing...
In other news, I (aided by "Crunk" who was so kind as to drive
several hours to lend a hand AND bring cold beer) did a pre-purchase
inspection on N89PK over the weekend. (I would also add that 27 hours
of seat time in an old pickup was NOT fun!). She appears to be a
fine old bird and I committed to purchase. I brought the r/h engine
back with me to be overhauled. 89PK is a 680FP Commander with MRRPM
IO-720 engines and rayjay turbos. At this time all looks to be a "go"
for purchase as long as we don't find anything unexpected (ie: bad crank
or such) during the engine teardown. More later
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-fly or ferry |
Great tips, guys. Thanks.
Financial empire? Steady now. It might be a case of fiddling while something else
is burning type empire, or rather piddling on the fire.
I have done a few things that I would like to remember. This would be one of them.
Getting pumped up already. Have to resist. Haven't bought the ship yet.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Self-fly or ferry
In a message dated 09/06/01 13:12:27 Pacific Daylight Time,
bhermel(at)hotmail.com writes:
Just curious, but, Wouldnt a 2,000 mile trip burn alot of oil???
Yes! Take a peek at the article on the Commander web site about my trip to
Pago Pago from Oakland, California for some insight on fuel and oil
consumption.
Nico,
In today's climate a GB registration (or Canadian) is probably as good as it
gets ... French would be good but probably more trouble than it's worth to
obtain. They are French, after all.
Call or email Denny Craig. He frequently pulls Raytheon products out of
South Africa (BE-1900s, BE-58, etc.) and brings them back to Europe and the
U.S.
This is his full time business, so don't expect all this trade secrets, but
he'll give you his take on the current shoot-down climate, etc.
Denny Craig
Aviation Services International
P.O. Box 2785
Fairfield, CA 94533
office: 707-448-5138*** use this
fax: 707-448-7769
Res: 707-425-0430
dcraigfly(at)aol.com
If you have the spare time, it will be one of the great adventures (or
missions) of your life -- although I think you've had plenty already. (Nice
to rev up the adrenal glands now and then, eh?)
If you're busy managing your financial empire, employ a pro like Mr. Craig.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Miss Sept online |
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!! SEND MORE INFO SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Love jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
ANOTHER "YODA" QUOTE............
"A TAKEOFF IN A 680E IS LIKE SITTING BETWEEN TWO FUEL DRAGSTERS"
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Another oldie but goodie |
Down at Gillispie Field, San Diego today...pulled up a Whirlwind Propellers
(composite aerobatic props) to drop off a prop for my CJ and saw a rough
white with blue and gold trim bathtub Commander.
Data plate said 560A, Mfgrs. # 264, built Sept 1955. Had GO-480-D1A
engines. Apparently bought for $7K and will require $150K to get it
flying....
680E is flying like a dream! Up to 50 hrs. in her now. What a great bird!
"Man, that thing is loud" said a friend that recently watched a max. perf.
takeoff. Cool. Very cool.
Barry Hancock
Precision Flight Networks
(949) 300-5510
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 00:04:58 -0400 (EDT)
To: rcdettmer(at)charter.net, afoss(at)caw.com
Cc: chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com, commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: Request
ANOTHER "YODA" QUOTE............
"A TAKEOFF IN A 680E IS LIKE SITTING BETWEEN TWO FUEL DRAGSTERS"
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Dragsters of the sky |
ANOTHER "YODA" QUOTE............
"A TAKEOFF IN A 680E IS LIKE SITTING BETWEEN TWO FUEL DRAGSTERS"
Yeah! Why is power SOOOOO addicting? I'm lucky in that, by pure chance,
the first Commander I own is a 680E. Sure I burn a little more gas, but
max. perf. TO's are so FUNNNNNN. So is getting to altitude, whatever
altitude you choose, at 1000 fpm.
I have a Nanchang CJ-6A Chinese Military trainer. 9 cyl. radial with 285
hp...1500 fpm initial climb rate, 150 kt. cruise on 14 gph. However, the
engine started going south a couple months ago so I elected to swap
engines....to the M14P 360 HP RADIAL MONSTER,
HAAHHAAAHAAAHHAAAHAHHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!..........uh, um, sorry. Climb will
now be 3000 fpm with cruise and fuel burn about the same.
New aircraft paint, about $20K...
New Apollo MX-20, about $7K...
The feeling you get in your loins when you pour the coals to a (or two) fire
breathing engines, PRICELESS!
Barry (Tim Allen is my hero) Hancock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnSpray(at)aol.com <CapnSpray(at)aol.com> |
[Unable to display image]Cap'n Spray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maytag <dmaytag(at)commspeed.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dragsters of the sky |
----- Original Message -----
From: David Maytag
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: Dragsters of the sky
Like I always say: "You ain't havin fun if you ain't burnin gas!" So many people
just don't realize how simple it is -- but it sounds like all of you get
it.
I'm new to the group and sorry I missed the fly-in, but it sure is fun reading
all the enthusiasm for these great airplanes.
I'm also glad to hear someone else in the group has found the joys of the M-14.
My other plane (or only plane at the moment since I am between Commanders) is
a Helio Courier with a 400hp M-14PF. Without a doubt, the geared Lycoming and
the M-14 are the coolest sounding engines out there! Anyone else out there
ever think about putting a pair of M-14's on a 680E? I don't think I could bastardize
a venerable 680, but it would be fun.
Regards,
David Maytag
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dragsters of the sky |
I tell you, I once saw in Mozambique a BN Islander with a pair of turboprops hung
on its wings. That sucker took off and ascended like a home-sick angel. I know
it would be sacrilegious to replace good geared pumps with a fan, but man,
wouldn't they sail. But then again, buy a Renaissance. Fool.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: David Maytag
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 9:20 PM
Subject: RE: Dragsters of the sky
----- Original Message -----
From: David Maytag
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: Dragsters of the sky
Like I always say: "You ain't havin fun if you ain't burnin gas!" So many
people just don't realize how simple it is -- but it sounds like all of you get
it.
I'm new to the group and sorry I missed the fly-in, but it sure is fun reading
all the enthusiasm for these great airplanes.
I'm also glad to hear someone else in the group has found the joys of the M-14.
My other plane (or only plane at the moment since I am between Commanders)
is a Helio Courier with a 400hp M-14PF. Without a doubt, the geared Lycoming
and the M-14 are the coolest sounding engines out there! Anyone else out there
ever think about putting a pair of M-14's on a 680E? I don't think I could
bastardize a venerable 680, but it would be fun.
Regards,
David Maytag
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dragsters of the sky |
I tell you, I once saw in Mozambique a BN Islander with a pair of turboprops
hung on its wings. That sucker took off and ascended like a home-sick angel.
I know it would be sacrilegious to replace good geared pumps with a fan, but
man, wouldn't they sail.
It would be worth considering if you could find a way to keep the props
behind the cockpit. Those turbines stick SO FAR out there...
But then again, buy a Renaissance. Fool.
Not really a fool. You could do the conversion for less than a half a
million using Walter turbines....
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Luis Henrique Pennacchi <lhpmail(at)uol.com.br> |
| Subject: | AFM supplement ... |
Hi Folks !
Im sorry about my short vocabulary !
I havent fluency in english language ...
I would like to known if anyone have the power settings to the Shrike Commander
500-S with manual controlled Rajay turbocharge system (turbonormalizer) STCs
"SE 6WE" and "SA 529WE" or if you know where I can find the AFM supplement...
Thank You Very Much !
Luis Henrique Pennacchi
lhpmail(at)uol.com.br
________________________________________________________________________________
Its nice to see some new names
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AFM supplement ... |
Luis,
The AFM will show the Max Cont. 29.5" MP - 2650 RPM power setting is
only allowed for 5 Min (due to over heating) then power must be pulled back
to 26" MP.
This is a very high power setting that will consume a lot of fuel at a high
noise level.
On the stock Rajay system, overheating was a problem. Excessive heat is a
maintenance problem.
Dick MacCoons Mr. RPM new system is being designed to reduce the heat by
moving the oil cooler behind the firewall and increase the airflow over the
turbos and components aft of the engine. There will also be an intercooler
to lower the inlet temperature to the engine. Also the removal of the cowl
flaps will reduce the drag of a stock system.
We are looking at offering the oil cooler and the intercooler as separate
modifications if there is enough requests.
Most operators will like to operate the engine at 2200 RPM for lower sound
levels and at 25 of MP for economy cruse with lean of peek fuel flow
settings. The system will come standard with new fuel injectors balanced to
the engine. You will be able to use higher setting for increased climb to
cruse altitudes in the 10,000 to 12,000 ft levels (or higher if you are on
O2).
I heard one operator claim a 20-knot increase in speed over standard with
just fixing he turbos.
The new system may have even better performance. We will know more when we
get one flying.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Luis Henrique Pennacchi [mailto:lhpmail(at)uol.com.br]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 4:24 PM
To: Twin Commander Flight Group
Subject: AFM supplement ...
Hi Folks !
Im sorry about my short vocabulary !
I havent fluency in english language ...
I would like to known if anyone have the power settings to the Shrike
Commander 500-S with manual controlled Rajay turbocharge system
(turbonormalizer) STCs "SE 6WE" and "SA 529WE" or if you know where I can
find the AFM supplement...
Thank You Very Much !
Luis Henrique Pennacchi
lhpmail(at)uol.com.br
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/8/2001 6:23:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mdcmd@ms-online.com writes:
> Its nice to see some new names
>
> YEP, it is!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AFM supplement ... |
Tylor wrote:
>The AFM will show the Max Cont. 29.5" MP - 2650 RPM power setting is
>only allowed for 5 Min (due to over heating) then power must be pulled back
>to 26" MP.
My Bellanca also has a Lycoming 540 with rayjays that appears to have
the
same basic numbers. I like to cruise it at 2200 and 24-26". Like Tylor
says,
it's considerably quieter and the fuel flows much lower.
You may find, however, that your engine is smoother at 2400 - especially
if
it is a higher time motor that has spent most of it's life at 2400. The
counterweight bushings tend to wear and won't dampen as well...
>Dick MacCoon's Mr. RPM new system is being designed to reduce the heat by moving
the oil cooler behind the firewall and >increase
>the airflow over the turbos and components aft of the engine. There will also
be an intercooler to lower the inlet >temperature
>to the engine. Also the removal of the cowl flaps will reduce the drag of a stock
system.
>We are looking at offering the oil cooler and the intercooler as separate modifications
if there is enough requests.
I am very interested in making these upgrades to 89PK, but I'm just not
sure if there's enough room to add the intercooler on the 720's. Tylor,
I
noticed that you used "we" in your letter. Are you working with Dick on
this project?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Copy of Agreement and directions for tomorrow morning. |
Bill,
Herewith a copy of the agreement that I would want you to look over. It basically
contains the clauses that we are bound to pass on to anybody that we bring
into the project. We have some items on dress-code to assure that those who represent
us at our customer's offices are presentable and maintain a prefessional
image. If you work from home, of course, how you dress is your business.
There is a paragraph about Time Sheets, in which we need your full cooperation
and that is that the time-sheets are to be accompanied by a narrative of the work
done, and the narrative and the time-sheet must be emailed to Jeff every day
at the end of the day. His email address is jeff(at)cybersuperstore.com It is
very important that we stay abreast of the work done and the only way is for our
programmers to do that on a daily basis. The narrative of the work done should
ideally be in a journal format, itemizing the items that were worked on and
the problems that were encountered. If we are aware of problems that you encountered
or problems that you may have solved in a special way, we can take the
matter up with the customer, which could result in either a timely redesign
or an action by the customer to avoid costly rework, among other benefits of
having this information.
The contract site is in Pasadena and the address is 2181 E. Foothill Blvd, Pasadena
CA 91107. The directions from the 210 East is to exit at Sierra Madre Blvd
/ Altadena then turn right at the bottom of the exit and right again in Foothill.
It is about a quarter mile further on on the right hand side, just next
to the Self Storage. My cell phone number is (818) 421-4089 should you need to
contact me. You can enter the address into mapquest and it will give you clear
directions also.
Let's meet at the site at, say 10:00 am. I will meet with you outside first, there
is parking at the side of the road.
I have created an email box for you at cybersuperstore: bill(at)cybersuperstore.com
with password jvrooy. I will send you a test email. Please respond as soon as
you receive it so that I know I have done that correctly.
Thanks and I am looking forward working with you and to a long and prosperous relationship.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Bill
Please hit Reply All just to let us know that the mailbox is working. It automatically
forwards all email directly to dutchman(at)subconsciousstudios.com and a
copy to Jeff and me as well so that we stay copied on your email. Please use this
mailbox for all business mail.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 09/05/01 03:55:45 Pacific Daylight Time,
rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au writes:
> We have agreed by democratic processes on the Dayton, Ohio location for
> 2003.
> Does the Dayton memorandum bring with it a preferred weekend (are we trying
> to coincide, preceed or back onto any strategic part of the Wright Bros
> Centenary celebration schedules)?
> If so we should identify which weekend and then do a count back to the same
> weekend next year at a place to be determined but probably in Florida??
>
I didn't see any responses to Mr. Legg's idea, but I think it's brilliant.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/9/2001 10:58:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> idn't see any responses to Mr. Legg's idea, but I think it's brilliant.
Im on it, i'll let you know. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flyin and sequelae |
Pleasant surprise this week when I received my repair bill fromAero Air. Saturday
callin and overtime for a welder and mechanic about 4hrs wok each total $350.
Also recieved bill from Chris's mechanic in Tulsa for 7 hrs overtime (till
midnight) less than $350.
Then night before last someone broke into hanger and had my center panel out with
radar and stormscope remove. Busted the panel, not sure about condition of
equipment. Then last weekend while I was out in the wilderness without phone The
USAF search and rescue center in Virginia calls my partner at 3AM looking for
friends or relatives because they found my plane. Of course they would provide
no details. As it turns out the ELT in my old plane had been set off and
they wanted someone to turn it off. This was after 2 days of my friends thinking
I had augered in somewhere.
Good days and bad days life goes on.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flyin and sequelae |
In a message dated 9/10/2001 9:52:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mdcmd@ms-online.com writes:
I have found Aero Air to be a really good company. Very impressed with them.
Milt, sorry about the problems.
Jim
> Pleasant surprise this week when I received my repair bill fromAero Air.
> Saturday callin and overtime for a welder and mechanic about 4hrs wok each
> total $350. Also recieved bill from Chris's mechanic in Tulsa for 7 hrs
> overtime (till midnight) less than $350.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi, Happy inhabitants of Commanderland!
Not wishing to 'stick my nose in' or instigate a big debate, but isn't the Dayton
celebration scheduled between the dates of 4th and 20th July 2003?
In that case, that time of year will be, surely, too hot for certain locations,
such as Florida.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think capt jimbob was looking at a 'weekend' which, no matter
where the Fly-In is held, the weather will in all probability, and all things
being equal, be pretty good, but not extreme one way or the other.
Anyway, I'm certain that capt jimbob, ably aided and abetted by Susan, has got
his thinking cap on and will come up with a more than suitable solution.
Best Regards to All,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
Cc: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: Next Year
In a message dated 09/05/01 03:55:45 Pacific Daylight Time,
rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au writes:
We have agreed by democratic processes on the Dayton, Ohio location for
2003.
Does the Dayton memorandum bring with it a preferred weekend (are we trying
to coincide, preceed or back onto any strategic part of the Wright Bros
Centenary celebration schedules)?
If so we should identify which weekend and then do a count back to the same
weekend next year at a place to be determined but probably in Florida??
I didn't see any responses to Mr. Legg's idea, but I think it's brilliant.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flyin and sequelae |
Hi Milt,
So sorry to hear your bad news. I just hope that you get everything sorted out
soon, and with the absolute minimum of hassle.
Kindest Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt Concannon
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:21 PM
Subject: Flyin and sequelae
Pleasant surprise this week when I received my repair bill fromAero Air. Saturday
callin and overtime for a welder and mechanic about 4hrs wok each total $350.
Also recieved bill from Chris's mechanic in Tulsa for 7 hrs overtime (till
midnight) less than $350.
Then night before last someone broke into hanger and had my center panel out
with radar and stormscope remove. Busted the panel, not sure about condition of
equipment. Then last weekend while I was out in the wilderness without phone
The USAF search and rescue center in Virginia calls my partner at 3AM looking
for friends or relatives because they found my plane. Of course they would provide
no details. As it turns out the ELT in my old plane had been set off and
they wanted someone to turn it off. This was after 2 days of my friends thinking
I had augered in somewhere.
Good days and bad days life goes on.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 09/10/01 11:35:28 Pacific Daylight Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
> Not wishing to 'stick my nose in' or instigate a big debate, but isn't the
>
4th of July. Why does that date ring a bell? Something happened on that
date a few years ago and I can't quite remember ... none the less, those are
good points that you make, Sir Barry.
Notice that all the insight on the next Fly-In date is coming from offshore?
I guess we Yanks (in this context that includes ya'll in the Southern
contingent) won't have much to say until the event is to be held in Britain
or Oz.
Wing Commander Gordon
PS: Dr. Milt. Sorry to hear about the avionics theft. If "having teenagers
is punishment for having sex," is avionics-theft punishment for enjoying a
Commander Fly-In as much?
________________________________________________________________________________
Do you know, Wing Commander, I think you're right. Let me just get my history book
to refresh my memory..........................
Ah! Well! Yes! OK, but we'd beat you at soccer.
Also, just to get my own back, can I say that when you make tea in the USA, you're
supposed to use hot water and add milk.
You do not chuck it overboard from a ship into salt water, that just won't 'hit
the spot' !! Or to Boston people prefer it that way, a kinda local thing?
Or, do they call that ground bait, Big Al?
Kindest Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
Cc: commanderchat@c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Next Year
In a message dated 09/10/01 11:35:28 Pacific Daylight Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
Not wishing to 'stick my nose in' or instigate a big debate, but isn't the
Dayton celebration scheduled between the dates of 4th and 20th July 2003?
4th of July. Why does that date ring a bell? Something happened on that
date a few years ago and I can't quite remember ... none the less, those are
good points that you make, Sir Barry.
Notice that all the insight on the next Fly-In date is coming from offshore?
I guess we Yanks (in this context that includes ya'll in the Southern
contingent) won't have much to say until the event is to be held in Britain
or Oz.
Wing Commander Gordon
PS: Dr. Milt. Sorry to hear about the avionics theft. If "having teenagers
is punishment for having sex," is avionics-theft punishment for enjoying a
Commander Fly-In as much?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 09/10/01 13:12:08 Pacific Daylight Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
> Ah! Well! Yes! OK, but we'd beat you at soccer.
>
> Also, just to get my own back, can I say that when you make tea in the USA,
> you're supposed to use hot water and add milk.
> You do not chuck it overboard from a ship into salt water, that just won't
> 'hit the spot' !!
>
That explains why we didn't take to tea -- I found it such a salty drink.
But this soccer business ... good god, man! Tell your country men to pick up
the ball and run with it. With their hands! Yes! Hold that bugger and slam
through any opposition and knock over that silly guy in front of the net over
for heaven's sake!
Then you'd have some decent scores .. not these 1s and 2s.
As for the rest, well, it's good thing both the R.A.F. and the Spitfire
weren't in service in 1776.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS........................
I just changed the oil in the "fleet" (2 GSO-480s and an R-985)
I am happy report that the total metal in the screens would not have filled a
coffee cup and no single piece was large enough to read a complete part
number! Life is good!
Had a really nice flight a few nights ago. Met TCFG member Jim
Jorgenson and his father for a shot ride to dinner. It was the first time in
30 years his Dad had been in a light plane. Went to Harvey field and met
Jim's wife at the "Buzz in." Nice eve and then a night flight into BFI. Got
a close in downwind leg to 31R right past the space needle, the water front
skyline and SAFECO field, (The Mariners won).
What a great flight!! It was absolutely gorgeous and not a bump in
the clear night air. We got to see the last outline of the Olympics just
before "dark, dark"
Anyway, was cool! I am just getting ready to jump in triple 2 with
Rocky and TC and head home. The summer flying season is almost over :-(, it
was a great one. Will fly through Sept if the weather holds.
Hope all is well in Commanderland. capt jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Miss Sept online |
Beautiful plan but that stained glass window is awsome.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:54 PM
Subject: Miss Sept online
> Miss September 2001 - bilbo's 500A is now showing...
>
> In other news, I (aided by "Crunk" who was so kind as to drive
> several hours to lend a hand AND bring cold beer) did a pre-purchase
> inspection on N89PK over the weekend. (I would also add that 27 hours
> of seat time in an old pickup was NOT fun!). She appears to be a
> fine old bird and I committed to purchase. I brought the r/h engine
> back with me to be overhauled. 89PK is a 680FP Commander with MRRPM
> IO-720 engines and rayjay turbos. At this time all looks to be a "go"
> for purchase as long as we don't find anything unexpected (ie: bad crank
> or such) during the engine teardown. More later
>
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flyin and sequelae |
I had a violent attack from this crap virus sircom and it took us quite a while
to get our servers and customers clean again. You wouldn't believe the thoughts
that went through my mind at the time especially if I imagine that I could
lay my hands on these terrorists. Imagine what I would think if someone broke
into my plane and violated it like that. Better not think.
Sorry to hear about your damage, Milt.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt Concannon
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:21 AM
Subject: Flyin and sequelae
Pleasant surprise this week when I received my repair bill fromAero Air. Saturday
callin and overtime for a welder and mechanic about 4hrs wok each total $350.
Also recieved bill from Chris's mechanic in Tulsa for 7 hrs overtime (till
midnight) less than $350.
Then night before last someone broke into hanger and had my center panel out
with radar and stormscope remove. Busted the panel, not sure about condition of
equipment. Then last weekend while I was out in the wilderness without phone
The USAF search and rescue center in Virginia calls my partner at 3AM looking
for friends or relatives because they found my plane. Of course they would provide
no details. As it turns out the ELT in my old plane had been set off and
they wanted someone to turn it off. This was after 2 days of my friends thinking
I had augered in somewhere.
Good days and bad days life goes on.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Chris,
I spoke with Jeff this morning and also reviewed the correspondence between you.
It seems as if there are items that he has worked on that took longer than expected
and which could be out of scope also, such as the auto email function.
From what I understand, the auto email used to be hard-coded in the TSQL statements
making it very rigid and maintainable by a programmer only. Jeff developed
a template in which the emails can be more readily configured by the administrator
making the application much more professional and user friendly. I would
like to have your perception on this.
I believe that the Wednesday 9/12 deadline was only set on Monday 9/10, which put
a higher priority on his work schedule and if that urgency was not apparent
in our correspondence, I apologize, but Jeff is confident that the items on your
worklist will be completed in time.
I trust that your concerns have been addressed and should you still feel uncomfortable
with some issues, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Buntine
To: 'Nico van Niekerk'
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: Dnode
Nico,
I just wanted to raise a concern with you about the lack of progress on the software
fixes we are communicating to Jeff. As I understand it you have seen
these emails so are aware of our requests. I don't believe we have suggested
anything major so I'm concerned about the fact that it's over a week since some
of these requests have been made and no changes have been implemented. We want
to make sure we resolve any operational problems in a timely manner in accordance
with the contract but Jeff's apparent lack of responsiveness makes this
difficult. If there is anyway we can better structure our requests to facilitate
more rapid responsiveness we would be happy to do so. In the meantime we
are trying to have a more robust system for Wednesday's demonstration.
Regards,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I will set up email addresses for our customers that you must use instead of their
regular email addresses. I will configure these email addresses so that all
relevant persons are copied on all correspondence and will email you later today
with these addresses. Please change your address books accordingly.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
There are no words to describe it.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Milt Concannon [mailto:mdcmd@ms-online.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:05 PM
To: Commander Chat
Subject: shit
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
Our prayers from the Hancock household to all.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/11/2001 10:20:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mdcmd@ms-online.com writes:
>
> Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
>
>
> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
>
We knew it was coming. We just didn't know when. Now that it has happened
it seems unreal.
Who is the enemy? Where is the enemy? How do we retaliate? What a feeling
of despair and impotence for this Marine.
If - and a big IF - the perpertrators are - in fact - Islamic plotters - it
is sad to envision them crashing into these buildings chanting "God is great"
while they commit suicide and take so many thousands with them.
This attack will have 5 to 10X casualties than Pearl Harbor. It is not
inconceivable - but frightening - that the casualties could equal either the
total of Korea or Viet Nam individually with one act of terrorism.
With great sadness,
Jim Furlong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Things will never be the same, Milt. We have entered a new historical era. One
may justly consider yesterday as the last day of the era of freedom or innocence.
This is indeed the first day of the rest of our lives. Literally.
Hope you all don't have relatives in NY.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt Concannon
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:04 AM
Subject: shit
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
Re: shitGod help us.
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: shit
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
Our prayers from the Hancock household to all.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
You are right. It is not the time to judge hastily. What we do know is that this
should be dealt with with great efficiency and purpose.
This morning, not only our enemies, but also our friends and even some citizens,
should tremble, for just as Japan's generals said, after bombing Pearl Harbor,
'we have awakened the giant,' so they too must know now that they have disturbed
and irrevocably destroyed the peace. There are some citizens also who believe
that one can give up some of your principles to appease irrational threats.
It doesn't work, because the signal of peace that is sent, is interpreted
as weakness. I believe they have not only woke the giant, but they kicked the
tiger in the nuts. It is not time to growl, it is time to hunt.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Furlong5(at)aol.com
To: mdcmd(at)ms-online.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: shit
In a message dated 9/11/2001 10:20:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mdcmd@ms-online.com writes:
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
We knew it was coming. We just didn't know when. Now that it has happened
it seems unreal.
Who is the enemy? Where is the enemy? How do we retaliate? What a feeling
of despair and impotence for this Marine.
If - and a big IF - the perpertrators are - in fact - Islamic plotters - it
is sad to envision them crashing into these buildings chanting "God is great"
while they commit suicide and take so many thousands with them.
This attack will have 5 to 10X casualties than Pearl Harbor. It is not
inconceivable - but frightening - that the casualties could equal either the
total of Korea or Viet Nam individually with one act of terrorism.
With great sadness,
Jim Furlong
________________________________________________________________________________
BRAVO!!!!
Gary - Commander-Aero
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Furlong5(at)aol.com ; mdcmd(at)ms-online.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: shit
You are right. It is not the time to judge hastily. What we do know is that this
should be dealt with with great efficiency and purpose.
This morning, not only our enemies, but also our friends and even some citizens,
should tremble, for just as Japan's generals said, after bombing Pearl Harbor,
'we have awakened the giant,' so they too must know now that they have disturbed
and irrevocably destroyed the peace. There are some citizens also who
believe that one can give up some of your principles to appease irrational threats.
It doesn't work, because the signal of peace that is sent, is interpreted
as weakness. I believe they have not only woke the giant, but they kicked the
tiger in the nuts. It is not time to growl, it is time to hunt.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Furlong5(at)aol.com
To: mdcmd(at)ms-online.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: shit
In a message dated 9/11/2001 10:20:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mdcmd@ms-online.com writes:
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
We knew it was coming. We just didn't know when. Now that it has happened
it seems unreal.
Who is the enemy? Where is the enemy? How do we retaliate? What a feeling
of despair and impotence for this Marine.
If - and a big IF - the perpertrators are - in fact - Islamic plotters - it
is sad to envision them crashing into these buildings chanting "God is great"
while they commit suicide and take so many thousands with them.
This attack will have 5 to 10X casualties than Pearl Harbor. It is not
inconceivable - but frightening - that the casualties could equal either the
total of Korea or Viet Nam individually with one act of terrorism.
With great sadness,
Jim Furlong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ricardo A. Otaola <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
Absolutely!!!! The US can no longer stay within certain principles, ithas been
kicked in the nuts. The middle east should take note of all of this.
Ricardo A. Otaola
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Furlong5(at)aol.com ; mdcmd(at)ms-online.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: shit
You are right. It is not the time to judge hastily. What we do know is that this
should be dealt with with great efficiency and purpose.
This morning, not only our enemies, but also our friends and even some citizens,
should tremble, for just as Japan's generals said, after bombing Pearl Harbor,
'we have awakened the giant,' so they too must know now that they have disturbed
and irrevocably destroyed the peace. There are some citizens also who
believe that one can give up some of your principles to appease irrational threats.
It doesn't work, because the signal of peace that is sent, is interpreted
as weakness. I believe they have not only woke the giant, but they kicked the
tiger in the nuts. It is not time to growl, it is time to hunt.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Furlong5(at)aol.com
To: mdcmd(at)ms-online.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: shit
In a message dated 9/11/2001 10:20:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mdcmd@ms-online.com writes:
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
We knew it was coming. We just didn't know when. Now that it has happened
it seems unreal.
Who is the enemy? Where is the enemy? How do we retaliate? What a feeling
of despair and impotence for this Marine.
If - and a big IF - the perpertrators are - in fact - Islamic plotters - it
is sad to envision them crashing into these buildings chanting "God is great"
while they commit suicide and take so many thousands with them.
This attack will have 5 to 10X casualties than Pearl Harbor. It is not
inconceivable - but frightening - that the casualties could equal either the
total of Korea or Viet Nam individually with one act of terrorism.
With great sadness,
Jim Furlong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilHackett(at)aol.com <PhilHackett(at)aol.com> |
Dear All,
For what it is worth, it is being said here in the UK that;
Clinton arranged a commission under Gore to examine airline security. It was
found to be extremely poor. International flight security was brought up to
European standards, but, the airlines did not want to ramp up Domestic
security because, they said it would slow down the turn round of aircraft.
They put the $ first. It is SIGNIFICANT that all these flights today were
internal! Experts here are saying that this was just an obvious terrorist
opportunity.
Clinton always kept involved with the Far East, and kept the lid on the
situation. BUSH turned his back on the problem when elected. Now it has come
to him. Bush has an insular attitude to the world. It appears to us, that
anything outside America does not exist for the average domestic citizen, or
Bush. Most Americans do not realise that the USA Army is poorly trained, and
when deployed in the Balkans recently, was put so far from danger, that most
troops are even in different countries, from where the trouble is.
If Politicians and Americans per se, keep pretending that American is Best,
when patently it isn't, someone somewhere will take advantage of you, as
happened today. You and we also, have allowed immigrants into our countries,
who are intending to destroy us. The infrastructure exists for this to happen
again, and again within both our countries. The people who struck today,
learned from the aborted attempt to bomb the World Trade Centre eight years
ago. The NY authorities did not. That is why so many emergency vehicles were
crushed by debris. They were too close. It took three hours to evacuate the
WT Centre eight years age. Nothing was done to improve on that, and as a
result people died today. Your airline security people are so poorly trained,
and paid,that Mcdonalds Burgher staff earn more. It is estimated that up to
20% of explosives, in tests, get past USA security staff. USA vulnerability
is well known!
We must all pray for those who perished today, and also those who suffer
grief.
Our lives will never be carefree again. The free, and safe world is a
diminishing place.
War has been declared on all of us, not just USA citizens, and Bush needs to
grasp that the world is bigger than America. We are your greatest and most
loyal allies.
I hope Bush learns that from someone soon. I do not feel confident in him at
all.
God Bless All Of You.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilHackett(at)aol.com <PhilHackett(at)aol.com> |
I agree with fighting back, but, there has to be a will to do so, in the free
world. When Reagan wanted to bomb Gadaafi, we were the only country to stand
by USA.
Therein lies the problem. Satellites will make it possible to pinpoint the
likely places where the worst terrorists hide. We should not be too shy about
taking these people out.
As Ever
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
In support of our country, I have put out the American Flag...and will fly it proudly.
Randy Dettmer
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt Concannon
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:04 AM
Subject: shit
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ricardo A. Otaola <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
Absolutely!!!! The US can no longer stay within certain principles, ithas been
kicked in the nuts. The middle east should take note of all of this.
Ricardo A. Otaola
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Furlong5(at)aol.com ; mdcmd(at)ms-online.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: shit
You are right. It is not the time to judge hastily. What we do know is that this
should be dealt with with great efficiency and purpose.
This morning, not only our enemies, but also our friends and even some citizens,
should tremble, for just as Japan's generals said, after bombing Pearl Harbor,
'we have awakened the giant,' so they too must know now that they have disturbed
and irrevocably destroyed the peace. There are some citizens also who
believe that one can give up some of your principles to appease irrational threats.
It doesn't work, because the signal of peace that is sent, is interpreted
as weakness. I believe they have not only woke the giant, but they kicked the
tiger in the nuts. It is not time to growl, it is time to hunt.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Furlong5(at)aol.com
To: mdcmd(at)ms-online.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: shit
In a message dated 9/11/2001 10:20:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mdcmd@ms-online.com writes:
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
We knew it was coming. We just didn't know when. Now that it has happened
it seems unreal.
Who is the enemy? Where is the enemy? How do we retaliate? What a feeling
of despair and impotence for this Marine.
If - and a big IF - the perpertrators are - in fact - Islamic plotters - it
is sad to envision them crashing into these buildings chanting "God is great"
while they commit suicide and take so many thousands with them.
This attack will have 5 to 10X casualties than Pearl Harbor. It is not
inconceivable - but frightening - that the casualties could equal either the
total of Korea or Viet Nam individually with one act of terrorism.
With great sadness,
Jim Furlong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Commanderland,
I was in the East Village this morning when the first plane hit the WTC. I was
about 20 blocks northeast of the event and had a ringside view of the most significant
military attack on the US since Pearl Harbor. It was totally surreal,
and being in the physical presence of the events lends even more of a sense of
pain and loss to it than any newscast could convey.
Estimates of the casualties are shaping up but there is no definitive info yet;
guesses put it somewhere between 6,000 and 40,000 souls. This was not an act
of terrorism, but an act of war. I believe that each citizen who lost their life
today was indeed killed in action, and that we must treat this as war.
America is a truly amazing place. In the face of tragedy, I witnessed some amazing
acts of heroism both live and on TV; the line to give blood was over 3 hours
long when we went there at 11:30AM. NYC also showed that they have one of the
finest police & fire forces in America. Walking from downtown to 33rd & 7th
(Penn Station), I overheard countless conversations between pedestrians indicating
our solidarity and the American values of morality, drive, determination,
and vengeance. It was as if lines of color and class dissolved......all of NY
is now filled with very, very, very angry Americans who want payback. If it
was Osama Bin Laden who did this, I believe he will find that he made a major
miscalculation. This could well be the event that unites America and causes us
to put our foot down militarily, and shows the world that we ARE the most powerful
nation on the planet....and that we won't stand for this violation of our
homeland.
I pray that many survivors are found and that the original estimates are inflated.
/John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
We should all follow suit....
"One nation, under god, indivisible, with unity and justice for all."
Barry Hancock
Precision Flight Networks
(949) 300-5510
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
From: Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:49:10 -0700
To: Milt Concannon <mdcmd@ms-online.com>, Commander Chat
Subject: Re: shit
In support of our country, I have put out the American Flag...and will fly
it proudly.
Randy Dettmer
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt Concannon <mailto:mdcmd@ms-online.com>
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:04 AM
Subject: shit
Does this make our problems insignificant or what?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
It is with deep sense of shock that Jacqui and I greet all of our friends in
Commanderland. Our thoughts are with you all and we hope that none of you
have any direct involvement in the tragedy.
In my youth I spent a number of years invoved in the fight against terrorism
in South Africa and have very strong views on the practices of these type of
people. The world as a whole seems to have been very willing to find excuses
for this kind of behavior over the last few decades.We have seen people
(possibly with good intentions but no experience in the field) condemn hard
line tactics used by many nations against these threats and people. What you
have to understand is that the normal rules that we all try to live by dont
apply to these people,who prey on the innocent and helpless because they are
too cowardly to take on anyone who can fight back . I am very sorry to say
this but WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD.
A number of nations around the world have been experiencing these attacks for
decades. I am sorry that the US has now got to experience these actions on
home soil. I hope that this acts as a catalyst for a new outlook on terrorism
in any shape or form , THAT IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
I am sorry if the above might be a bit blunt but this has stirred up feelings
that I have been suppressing for many years,hopefully thinking that this kind
of thing was on the decline.But alas .
I hope that your great nation and people take this in your stride and take
all the appropriate measures to not allow it to happen again. As with your
response to the actions of DEC 7, 1941 the time for polite chit-chat is over.
OUR THOUGHTS ARE WITH YOU ALL.
Regards
Richard & Jacqui.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Phil,
Thanks for your concerns. The US has its faults and in the aftermath every match-stick
will be picked up, that I assure you. However, I am inclined to think
that Clinton and his liberal policies have set us up to a large extent by his
lackluster dealings with fanatics, who believe that the West should be destroyed
- period. His negotiations in the Israel - Palestinian so-called peace process
was a farce because he was interested in building a legacy only. This we know
because of the pressure that was brought to bear on the Israelis to sacrifice
so much territory and even after complying mostly with the demands of the
Palestinians, Yssar Arafat declined and made further, unrealistic demands, basically
trashing the process - proving that they never intended to agree on peace
with Israel.
This attack was very well planned. Think about it: visitors with valid visas enter
the US. Apparently they did not have firearms or explosives - but that is
not important now - they could have boarded the planes with only a plastic container
of poisonous gas, or disassembled knives, checked in as first class passengers
so that they would be located directly behind the cockpit, and just unexpectedly
got up and overpowered the crew. Two people could walk the few steps
in a matter of seconds, slit the throats of the pilot and co-pilot, get behind
the yoke and - bang.
There are only two ways to defend oneself against this very professional type of
attack and that is, first, human intelligence: knowing what your adversaries
are up to, and second, retaliate so hard that no one would ever in human memory
try to do this again.
I believe the US should throw the UN out of New York. Further we should flatten
the capitols of Afghanistan, Algiers and other countries that threatened us before,
but at night when the least amount of civilian life would be lost - giving
them a chance that they did not give 50,000 US citizens.
So, although there are faults in the system, and they failed us today, it does
not mean that we should not bite back, and bite very, very hard.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: PhilHackett(at)aol.com
To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: shit
Dear All,
For what it is worth, it is being said here in the UK that;
Clinton arranged a commission under Gore to examine airline security. It was
found to be extremely poor. International flight security was brought up to
European standards, but, the airlines did not want to ramp up Domestic
security because, they said it would slow down the turn round of aircraft.
They put the $ first. It is SIGNIFICANT that all these flights today were
internal! Experts here are saying that this was just an obvious terrorist
opportunity.
Clinton always kept involved with the Far East, and kept the lid on the
situation. BUSH turned his back on the problem when elected. Now it has come
to him. Bush has an insular attitude to the world. It appears to us, that
anything outside America does not exist for the average domestic citizen, or
Bush. Most Americans do not realise that the USA Army is poorly trained, and
when deployed in the Balkans recently, was put so far from danger, that most
troops are even in different countries, from where the trouble is.
If Politicians and Americans per se, keep pretending that American is Best,
when patently it isn't, someone somewhere will take advantage of you, as
happened today. You and we also, have allowed immigrants into our countries,
who are intending to destroy us. The infrastructure exists for this to happen
again, and again within both our countries. The people who struck today,
learned from the aborted attempt to bomb the World Trade Centre eight years
ago. The NY authorities did not. That is why so many emergency vehicles were
crushed by debris. They were too close. It took three hours to evacuate the
WT Centre eight years age. Nothing was done to improve on that, and as a
result people died today. Your airline security people are so poorly trained,
and paid,that Mcdonalds Burgher staff earn more. It is estimated that up to
20% of explosives, in tests, get past USA security staff. USA vulnerability
is well known!
We must all pray for those who perished today, and also those who suffer
grief.
Our lives will never be carefree again. The free, and safe world is a
diminishing place.
War has been declared on all of us, not just USA citizens, and Bush needs to
grasp that the world is bigger than America. We are your greatest and most
loyal allies.
I hope Bush learns that from someone soon. I do not feel confident in him at
all.
God Bless All Of You.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/11/2001 4:03:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
>
>
> In support of our country, I have put out the American Flag...and will fly
> it proudly.
>
> Randy Dettmer
>
Randy,
I did the same this morning along with the flag of the U.S. Marines. I have
noticed that some of my neighbors have followed suit with the American Flag.
I am hoping that the President will order all American flags at all US
facilities all over the world be flown at half staff until the perpertrators
of this attack have been brought to justice.
Jim Furlong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
pray............jb
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| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
First off,tea is sumpthin ya drink when the preacher comes for
supper,secondly,if you run out of coffee filters and you use your ole lady,s
drawers to make a new pot,you might be a Red Necked Commander Pilot! HI
ALL; BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Milt,sorry about your run of luck,But to make you feel better,I'll fax you a
pilot history sheet and you and I will go to TEN ASS SEE and bring Lucille
to Jaws-acola, O K ? AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Sorry Gang,But I feel that it's too late to be pointing fingers.Patton
wanted to finish the job in WW2 but was not allowed to do so.President Bush
wanted to finish the job,BUT NOOOO! The rest of the world(that we protect)
would not let him.I say that enough is enough and this little-round red neck
says,It's time to kick sum terorist ass,and this time finish the job! I'm
not much on praying but every prayer I can muster,goes out to you all
tonight,And GOD BLESS AMERICA. AL
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| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Thanks Richard & Jacqui.
I was there when the communist ANC leader Nelson Mandela ordered the bombing of
the Nedbank building in Pretoria killing many innocent people.
The world then said it was in the interest of freedom and condoned it.
I have many times flown at my own expense my Aero Commander into Mozambique filled
with food and provisions after we were let back in after many years of communist
rule and plunder. The country was in ruins.
The world said it was in the interest of freedom and condoned it.
In the '50s when the Belgic Congo received independence and thousands of people
fled the horror of indiscriminate killing, the world said it was in the interest
of freedom and condoned it.
When the WTC was first bombed in '93, a 'feel good' policy caused millions of dollars
to be spent on a trial that accomplished what? It made us feel good that
the world will learn that we are a just people, a civilized nation. That, when
we were not the ones who needed the education. When you preach to the choir,
you can be sure of a captive audience. But try to get those who believe that
you are but an idiot and an infidel to listen to your sermon, then, and only
then are you making a difference. All else is nothing more that a waste of time
and an exercise in self indulgence. But since the choir is there, what the
hell, let's give them the treatment. It looks good on the news.
When Panam's jet was blown out of the sky over Scotland, we had to beg and plead
and wait. For what? So that the perpetrators could be handed over for trial.
When Pearl Harbor was destroyed, we acted and nearly wiped Japan off the face of
the map. That was sufficient for us to act. Is there a level of horror that
we are prepared to play with and, ah, well, you know, we should show the world
that we are a compassionate people and that our system will eventually execute
justice? Or must we accept that once the level of horror reaches beyond a certain
point, then we are prepared to speak the language of our adversary? But
not sooner?
While we have received blessings, freedom, and peace, and while we ate at the table
of liberal politics, we have allowed our true focus to be blurred. We have
become disciples of our own pleasure and laziness. We have allowed liberal socialists
to sway our determination to remain a strong nation. We have allowed
liberalism and 'feel good' politics to dumb our children down so that they do
not know any longer what to strive for. We have allowed treacherous lies to confuse
us in believing that killing a child is in the interest of comfort. We
have allowed our own people to kill many fellow Americans in cold blood - a loss
of life like we have seen today every year - and we did nothing. Oh, I am
sorry, we actually did something. We debated it and argued about it. And then
we did nothing. Sorry about that little oversight.
President Bush is, in my opinion, a smart man (despite what the popular media insinuates
about him) with extreme talent for strategy and finesse. (I mean, he
navigated his way through an election while the media waited like roaring lions
for him to set a foot wrong so that they could devour him.) I believe that
he will seek wisdom from its Source and take whatever actions are necessary to
prevent this from happening again. And pray that this nation comes to realize
that terrorism is terrorism regardless of where and against whom it is perpetrated.
The adage that 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' does
not apply to the US for two reasons: First, we are already free and second,
we have no desire to terrorize anyone.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: RnJThompson(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:47 PM
Subject: SHIT
It is with deep sense of shock that Jacqui and I greet all of our friends in
Commanderland. Our thoughts are with you all and we hope that none of you
have any direct involvement in the tragedy.
In my youth I spent a number of years invoved in the fight against terrorism
in South Africa and have very strong views on the practices of these type of
people. The world as a whole seems to have been very willing to find excuses
for this kind of behavior over the last few decades.We have seen people
(possibly with good intentions but no experience in the field) condemn hard
line tactics used by many nations against these threats and people. What you
have to understand is that the normal rules that we all try to live by dont
apply to these people,who prey on the innocent and helpless because they are
too cowardly to take on anyone who can fight back . I am very sorry to say
this but WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD.
A number of nations around the world have been experiencing these attacks for
decades. I am sorry that the US has now got to experience these actions on
home soil. I hope that this acts as a catalyst for a new outlook on terrorism
in any shape or form , THAT IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
I am sorry if the above might be a bit blunt but this has stirred up feelings
that I have been suppressing for many years,hopefully thinking that this kind
of thing was on the decline.But alas .
I hope that your great nation and people take this in your stride and take
all the appropriate measures to not allow it to happen again. As with your
response to the actions of DEC 7, 1941 the time for polite chit-chat is over.
OUR THOUGHTS ARE WITH YOU ALL.
Regards
Richard & Jacqui.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
In the face of adversity there is one shining light ,
BIG AL, you are alegend.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVID LAWSON <david(at)lawsoninc.net> |
Phil:
Your comments are interesting in light of your location. However, there
more facts that must be fit into the equation.
Mr. Bush inherited a dangerous legacy. He received a military which had
been "gutted" over the prior eight years by the Clinton administration. You
are correct in your comment re the US Army and its training. It impossible
to maintain satisfactory levels of proficiency if you are restricted to a
maximum of four hours of flying time each month (Black Hawke choppers), have
an opportunity to fire live rounds two time a year, and have to take
aircraft off the line to use for spare parts (and that only yields a 45/50%
August 08, 2001 - September 12, 2001
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ad