Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ag
October 04, 2001 - November 04, 2001
Is she finds it so devilish, why does she accept its rewards, its privileges,
its guarantee of rights that allow her to spew political garbage without
being shot for it, its tax dollars that constitute her pay? Why does she not
flee back to enlightened Tanzania, that beacon of feminism she left to come
to Canada? Or to Afghanistan, where feminist seminars are held in soccer
stadiums and the instructor carries a Kalashnikov?
None of those questions were given consideration, however, in the press
conference out at UBC Tuesday, when Barry McBride, the UBC vice-president in
charge of academic affairs, trotted out, read a terse three-paragraph piece
of empty bumpf about free speech "as a cornerstone of university culture" and
proceeded to state that UBC was four-square behind Thobani's right to insult
and demonize not just a nation, or a hemisphere, but an entire culture with
impunity.
And hey, you know what? So am I.
And I applaud UBC's zealous regard for free speech.
Which is why I'd like to see some of it from them.
For instance, what was McBride's personal opinion of Thobani's
characterizations, I asked him?
"I don't have a personal opinion ... that's not my responsibility."
Would he have any problem if she taught such characterizations in her
classroom?
No, he said, UBC has "bright students," students who would challenge her
assertions.
Premier Gordon Campbell, I asked McBride, did not feel any restraint in
offering his personal opinion of Thobani's speech (which he admirably called
"hateful"): Why couldn't McBride offer his?
"I don't feel that would contribute anything to the discussion."
Discussion? What discussion? Who at UBC had anything to say about Thobani, or
her dangerous, deeply insulting, crackpot theories, except to say they
supported her?
Why wasn't the usually glad-handing UBC president Martha Piper piping up, and
offering her two cents worth rather than remaining "unavailable," as her
receptionist told me?
Does the UBC brass feel free speech exists in some kind of pristine vacuum,
where we can take it out from time to time and ooh and aah at it and exclaim
how wonderful it is, or does it believe it has real impact, as Thobani
obviously does? Or do they see themselves as having to remain above the fray,
removed from the push and pull of democracy?
Don't know. They wouldn't say.
Rather, they preferred to keep their heads low and invoke free speech so as
to say as little as possible.
I don't feel the same constraint. Here's some free speech:
What Thobani said was stupid, but at least she had the courage to say it.
What UBC offered, in response, was meaningless, mewling, deflecting, and an
abdication of free speech, not an endorsement of it.
Pete McMartin can be reached at pmcm(at)pacpress.southam.ca or at 604-605-2905.
Copyright 2001Vancouver Sun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | KEY CRIME EVIDENCE IS BURIED |
From the NY Post.... Great. More of them to deal with. Can things get any
better?
Click here: NYPOST.COM
Regional News: KEY CRIME EVIDENCE IS BURIED By AL GUART
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | more words of wisdom from our friend Jane Fonda.... |
With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story...
Fonda Rethinks Born-again Conversion
It looks like Jane Fonda's born-again conversion to Christianity last year
was just a passing fancy.
A source close to the one-time actress tells MSNBC's Jeannette Walls that she
"usually can't get [Fonda] to shut up" about her faith. But when asked about
her church activities during one recent encounter, Fonda waved off the
question, explaining that she "didn't have time for that stuff" anymore.
Fonda caused a stir recently when she told an Atlanta radio station that
Americans need to understand the "underlying causes" of the terrorist attacks
on New York and Washington and cautioned against "saber-rattling and calls
for vengeance."
Inside Cover Stories
> Mystery
Anthrax Case -- Coincidence?
>
> Battle
Over Powell Heats Up
>
> There's
Mexico, at Last
>
> Doctors
Won't Recognize Bio-attack Diseases
>
> Brokaw
Backs American Flag Ban
>
> Is
Ebola Epidemic in Afghanistan bin Ladens Work?
>
> Fonda
Rethinks Born-again Conversion
>
> Civil
Rights Leader: Time to Unite Behind Bush
>
> Gingrich,
Morris Slam Clinton for bin Laden Failure
>
> Thatcher
Condemns Muslim Leadership
>
> Instant
Messages Warned of Attacks
>
> More Inside Cover Stories
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Gingrich, Morris Slam Clinton for bin Laden Failure |
With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story...
Gingrich, Morris Slam Clinton for bin Laden Failure
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich slammed ex-President Clinton late
Wednesday for failing to arrest Twin Towers terrorist Osama bin Laden when he
had the chance in 1996 - five years before the terrorist killed some 7,000
Americans in coordinated attacks on New York and Washington.
"You had this whole weird experience with the Clinton administration that
[Osama bin Laden] was behind the bombing of two American embassies," Gingrich
told Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes."
"They all believed [bin Laden] was behind the World Trade Center [attack in
1993]."
But, the former Republican leader explained, "they were so tied into the rule
of law, in the narrowest American sense, that they had an opportunity for
Sudan to give them bin Laden and they couldn't take him."
Gingrich continued:
"Now, I would just suggest to you that there is no national security
explanation for why we allowed bin Laden to get away with the Sudanese
offers.
"If the story that came out today is true, that the Sudanese literally
offered to give us bin Laden and the Clinton administration could not figure
out a legal rationale - this is an administration that argued over what the
meaning of the word 'is' is.
"Now, if they couldn't figure out a way, an argument about bin Laden, to keep
him, there was something profoundly wrong with the psychology of the
[Clinton] administration.
"Former Clinton White House political guru Dick Morris concurred with
Gingrich, telling FNC's Rita Cosby that Clinton was too distracted by the
Monica Lewinsky sex scandal to concentrate on getting bin Laden."
[Clinton was] distracted, disheartened and depressed and not terribly
focused," Morris told Cosby late Wednesday."
And also I believe [Clinton was] risk-averse," Morris said, in an observation
he first shared with NewsMax.com last Friday.
"I think that one of the reasons we sent in cruise missiles as opposed to
commandos [in 1998] was that he was averse to risk," he told Cosby.
"He didn't want to suffer casualties. He was worried about criticism for
that."
Morris said he was skeptical about the Clinton administration's excuses for
failing to apprehend bin Laden in 1996.
"It's very hard for me to believe that the United States could not muster a
case against bin Laden," Morris told Cosby."
I have to believe that if Bill Clinton were not a distracted president during
this period that there would have been a much greater focus on the terrorism
issue."
To read Morris' exclusive comments to NewsMax.com, see: Dick
Morris Tells
NewsMax: Lewinsky Affair Impeded Hunt for bin LadenFor more on the Clinton
administration's failure to arrest Osama bin Laden, see: Clinton
Blew Chance
to Arrest bin Laden Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics:
Clinton Scandals
War on TerrorismA
product that might interest you:
Get
NewsMax.com's new book "Bitter Legacy" FREE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Clinton Administration's Security Legacy |
I am so glad someone is actually reading what I send! I have always thought
in the back of my mind that people think I'm nuts...
Which is exactly the reason I try to "copy and paste". I figure that the
harder it is for someone to follow, the more they won't. I guess I should
just put it out there and trust them follow though. I'm just so cynical!
I do get a definite feeling that work is looking at where we go and the sites
we're accessing, so I can't blame anyone. Since you're on your own, I count
on you to "carry on", so to speak.
Warrior - carry forth!
I do remember a few weeks ago when I was so upset about the white farmers in
Zimbabwe, and the state of Dem/GOP politics - and I have not forgotten, but
it seems like an eternity now. The whole world is spiraling down and no one
seems to realize it. I have been so very upset and so very worried about
stuff I never thought would effect us - in the US. How very smug, when you
think of it.
I do not know if you remember when the shooting at work took place... Were
you there then? If you were, you should know that it really effected me. I
can still close my eyes and see his face - and I'm the one that pointed him
to where Andy's office was. I'm OK now, but I had to get help with it, and
it's on-going - there's nothing like legal drugs!
I worked though that a while ago, but I just cannot imagine the trauma this
gives to the people that were actually there. What I went though was such
"small potatoes" compared to this. How very, very sad... There are no
words to convey my sorrow. I still can't really comprehend it. How can
people really do this to one another? Sigh...
Thanks for listening.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wusses and Emergencies |
Manual Reversion, on the 747?
I think I had better go back to Ground School.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net>
To: "TCFG"
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:47 PM
Subject: Wusses and Emergencies
> CommanderLand:
> You gentlemen are a lot braver than me. I somehow grew up with this idea
> that emergencies were for the simulator ONLY. Maybe that is why I never
> had any, but I am thankful of the fact.
> I have had a great deal of fun playing with emergencies in the Simulator,
> I have done a 90 Kt. direct crosswind landing at ORL in a DC-9, a double
> flameout landing with a 3K ceiling, once again in a DC-9, a manual
> reversion single engine landing with a 300 ft ceiling and a 747 on the
> runway when past the commit point. But all these were practice
emergencies
> in a simulator where they belong.
> I have always felt that the 'real good' pilots should have the real
> emergencies and let the rest of us "wusses" just fly safe and grow old.
> Don
>
> --- Lowell Girod
> --- dongirod(at)earthlink.net
> --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
Is N690HB a member here?
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: This ought to raise a few more comments....:-) |
Good thoughts all Dave!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slamming throttles |
If you happen find yourself using this technique, you are using it to stay
alive, and you dont care what happens to engines!!!!!!
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slamming throttles |
In a message dated 10/5/01 7:27:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JETPAUL(at)aol.com
writes:
> If you happen find yourself using this technique, you are using it to stay
> alive, and you dont care what happens to engines!!!!!!
>
GOOD THINKING..........Thanks Paul jb :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS............
I got home from SEA last night (driving, # %!*#@&X##@!) and was
pleasantly surprised to kind a copy of Air Britain Digest. Inside this first
class publication was a GREAT story about the TCAC Commander University in
Scottsdale last spring. It is full of wonderfull photos really well writen.
Thanks Barry for helping to keep Commanders on everybody's mind. I wish
there was a way to share this with all of you. Ill work on that. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | OpinionJournal - Best of the Web Today - October 5, 2001 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.........
I had a nice chat with John Bocsh at Commander Aero today
regarding the date for the 2003 flyin. The official flyin and induction into
the hall of fame ceremonies will be the weekend of July 18-19. He suggested
that since the weather is really hot and the place will be a zoo that we plan
our flyin for a bit later. I have been thinking that the third weekend in
Sep or the first in Oct would be a good, forever date??
What do you think?? We are still welcome to be there in July but I
think later might work better as well. All of the displays that are being
constructed for the July airshow will still be available to us later as they
are becoming permanent part of the Dayton area.
Also, for anyone in the area the weekend of Oct 21, Commander Aero is
celebrating their 20th anniversary complete with an FAA safety seminar and a
great party. Those of you in the area should plan to attend.
I flew with Jim Furlong in his 500A Colemill this afternoon. What "A"
nice airplane!! It has all the trick stuff including A/C and a Garmin 430.
It still has a few issues to iron out, but will really be a show stopper when
the details are finished. It even has a CD player that plays "come fly with
me" in your headset!! Pretty cool. This has been a challenging transaction
for Jim and I wish him well as he sees to the last bit of work that must be
done.
I also got to fly triple 2 today so I was kinda a "Commander Hog."
Oh, well, he who flys the most Commanders wins!! hope all is well in
Commanderland. Let me know on what weekend you guys think would work the
best as our TCFG flyin weekend........................capt jimbob
PS I am working on the Fall Flight Group News, it will be on the way soon.
Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/5/2001 9:30:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com writes:
> I flew with Jim Furlong in his 500A Colemill this afternoon. What "A" nice
> airplane!! It has all the trick stuff including A/C and a Garmin 430. It
> still has a few issues to iron out, but will really be a show stopper when
> the details are finished. It even has a CD player that plays "come fly
> with me" in your headset!! Pretty cool. This has been a challenging
> transaction for Jim and I wish him well as he sees to the last bit of work
> that must be done.
>
YES, I FINALLY AM GETTING TO FLY MY AIRPLANE ALBEIT THERE ARE STILL A FEW
THINGS THAT NEED ATTENTION. WHEN I'M FINISHED I MAY HAVE THE MOST EXPENSIVE
500A COLEMILL/SHRIKE CONVERSION IN THE WORLD. IT HAS NOW BEEN OVER SEVEN
MONTHS SINCE I BOUGHT THE AIRPLANE FROM GADBERRY. WHAT A NIGHTMARE THIS HAS
BEEN.
ON THE BRIGHT SIDE IT IS A REAL BLESSING TO LIVE CLOSE TO CAPT. JIMBOB. HE
IS SO GENEROUS WITH HIS TIME AND KNOWLEDGE. HE DISCOVERED THE INBOARD FLAP
ON THE RIGHT SIDE WAS DROOPING - SOMETHING NEITHER AERO AIR OR I HAD SEEN.
WE GOT SOME TOOLS AND HE FIXED IT ON THE SPOT.
THANKS AGAIN JB.
ANYONE WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THE PROBLEMS I'VE ENCOUNTERED WITH THIS
AIRPLANE LET ME KNOW. AND, OF COURSE, HOW GADBERRY HAS HANDLED THE SITUATION
- OR MISHANDLED. "BUYER BEWARE" IS THE WORD.
JIM FURLONG
503-640-3221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: off topic personal note |
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> 1. Cellular technology and the design, manufacture, and assembling of
> electronic products.
> 2. The design and manufacture of electric generation plants and fuel cell
> technology.
> 3. What do you know about solid fuel rockets?
> 4. Mass transportation.
> I know it is a broad sketch, but do you think there is any synergy? Perhaps
> telling me more about your company would help also.
Nico,
Interesting and diverse set of projects you have there!
In a nutshell, I have four sub-groups :
- Engineering R&D (electrical, communications, controls, mechanical,
etc)
- Manufacturing (mostly electronics, measurement, sensor, controls
stuff)
- Software (high-tech development, java, C, several commercial packages)
- Technical Services (field installs, monitoring, support, 24X7)
Unfortunatly, we don't have much experience with fuel cell or
generation plant design, but might be of use regarding some aspects.
Our experience with solid fuel rockets is fairly limited to "high-power"
recreational although we've developed some telemetry systems, radar, and
downlink devices. (FYI, I was involved in the design of the telemetry
systems used in the NSF baloon to measure the ozone layer).
I'd certainly be pleased to discuss any possibility of working with you
on any of your projects. Without knowing more about your specific
technical needs, all I can say is that I will give you an honest
acessment
of what we can and can't do.
Feel free to give me a call. My work number is 918-582-3635
Chris Schuermann
C2 Technologies inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DARREN SMITH <hubba44(at)yahoo.com> |
HI MY NAME IS DARREN I OWN A COMMANDER 500
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/06/01 09:12:50 Pacific Daylight Time, hubba44(at)yahoo.com
writes:
> HI MY NAME IS DARREN I OWN A COMMANDER 500
Welcome to Commanderholics Anonymous, Darren.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
WELCOME DARREN.......
Tell us more!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodd Browne <dc8f(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hey Guys,
Can anyone tell me who has the best deal on after market exterior decals for my
560E?
rodd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
Darren,
Welcome to TCFG. Tell us about your last flight in your 500.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: DARREN SMITH [mailto:hubba44(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 11:09 AM
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: HUBBA44
HI MY NAME IS DARREN I OWN A COMMANDER 500
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just
$8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ANYBODY OUT THERE?? |
HI KIDS..........
Just wondering if I fell of line?? Haven't had a post since
last night. Hope all is well in Commanderland. I am working hard on the
Newsletter, will send soon 9I promise) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ANYBODY OUT THERE?? |
Yup. I'm here.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 7:21 PM
Subject: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
HI KIDS..........
Just wondering if I fell of line?? Haven't had a post since last
night. Hope all is well in Commanderland. I am working hard on the Newsletter,
will send soon 9I promise) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DARREN SMITH <hubba44(at)yahoo.com> |
I OWN A 500 MY THIRD 500 ,BUT IAM CURIOUS ABOUT THE
560E, 680E, 680, 560F, 680FL ,AND 685 .ANY INFO YOU
CAN GIVE ME ON ALL OR EITHER?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodd Browne <dc8f(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ANYBODY OUT THERE?? |
Good morning JB,
You're loud and clear in sunny FL.
rodd
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 10:21 PM
Subject: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
HI KIDS..........
Just wondering if I fell of line?? Haven't had a post since last
night. Hope all is well in Commanderland. I am working hard on the Newsletter,
will send soon 9I promise) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ANYBODY OUT THERE?? |
Mississippi is still here. I think everybody has been busy watching TV. Nice to
know were finally pasting those bastards.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 9:21 PM
Subject: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
HI KIDS..........
Just wondering if I fell of line?? Haven't had a post since last
night. Hope all is well in Commanderland. I am working hard on the Newsletter,
will send soon 9I promise) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jody and Susan Pillatzki <jpillatzki(at)702com.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ANYBODY OUT THERE?? |
ND is doing just fine.
Jody Really want a commander bad
1962 Mooney
-----Original Message-----
From: Nico van Niekerk [mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 12:53 AM
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
Yup. I'm here.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 7:21 PM
Subject: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
HI KIDS..........
Just wondering if I fell of line?? Haven't had a post since
last night. Hope all is well in Commanderland. I am working hard on the
Newsletter, will send soon 9I promise) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Who wants a commander? |
I am going to look at some commanders overseas. There might be a bargain. Is there
anybody out there that wants me to look for somehting specific? Be quick with
a response I am ready to go.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
Mississippi is still here. I think everybody has been busy watching TV. Nice
to know were finally pasting those bastards.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 9:21 PM
Subject: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
HI KIDS..........
Just wondering if I fell of line?? Haven't had a post since last
night. Hope all is well in Commanderland. I am working hard on the Newsletter,
will send soon 9I promise) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ANYBODY OUT THERE?? |
In a message dated 10/8/01 4:59:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> Mississippi is still here. I think everybody has been busy watching TV.
> Nice to know were finally pasting those bastards
>
YIPPIE!! It is about time!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI DARREN..........
I have owned a 560A 720 and currently fly a 680E I would be
happy to answer any questions I can. Feel free to give me a call at
360-835-1090 west coast time. Jim Metzger (capt jimbob) Director, Twin
Commander Flight Group
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Who wants a commander? |
Nico,
Yes, I am looking for any MR RPM Twin Commanders. I am interested in any
IO-720 engines in any condition.
I am looking for any parts for MR RPM Twin Commanders.
I know where some have gone, but I have not contacted them.
I am very interested in 680FLs.
I am working with Dick Mac Coon, Mr. RPM.
Any thing you might find would be of interest.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Nico van Niekerk [mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 10:25 AM
To: N414C; YOURTCFG(at)aol.com; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Who wants a commander?
I am going to look at some commanders overseas. There might be a bargain. Is
there anybody out there that wants me to look for somehting specific? Be
quick with a response I am ready to go.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C <mailto:N414C(at)cableone.net>
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ;
COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
Mississippi is still here. I think everybody has been busy watching TV. Nice
to know were finally pasting those bastards.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 9:21 PM
Subject: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
HI KIDS..........
Just wondering if I fell of line?? Haven't had a post since
last night. Hope all is well in Commanderland. I am working hard on the
Newsletter, will send soon 9I promise) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | VERY INTERESTING |
>From: "Price, Sharon (S.T.)" <sprice1(at)ford.com>
>To: "'Allen_Reed2(at)hotmail.com'"
>Subject: FW: VERY INTERESTING
>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:16:50 -0400
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JOSEPH PORTER [mailto:musicgr8(at)yahoo.com]
>Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 11:40 AM
>To: Ken Viken; STEVE YOUCHISON; Keith Youngster; Sharon Price; Monica PJ
>Rathman; Billy Risner; Mart Stovall; Mollie Vaughn; Andrea Venema; Rod
>Leach; MARYANN MCGINNIS; Cliff McReynolds; Liubita (L.X.) Mercsak; Kurt
>Eckman; Judi Golemba; Wendell Gross; Cathi Higgins; MABEL HIGGINS;
>DELANO JOHNSON; MICHELLE BARRETT; Leigh Ann Brewer; Mike Brien; Lisa
>Chandler; Iris Prentiss Charles; Melissa Clawson; DJ Conn
>Subject: VERY INTERESTING
>
>
>Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just
>$8.95/month.
>http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Go Around ... or Groom? |
We haven't lost N680E, we've gained a 680-E owner-in-law.
Congratulations, Mr. & Mrs. Hancock!
Thanks, Keith! You were correct in your calculations. No need for a missed -
had it locked in like a short field in a box canyon.
Spent a glorious week honeymooning in Lanai...scuba with white tips, snorkling
with a pod of 200+ spinner dolphins...just to name a few. Flying 680E is fun,
but being surronded by 2,3,4,5, & 8 ship formations of friendly and curious dolphins,
many with Junior in tow, was the most incredible exprience in my 33 years....well,
excluding the wedding, of course!
680E is down for a while to take care of various MX issues, new strobes, etc.
I get my CJ-6 back this week with new M14P....looks like I'll *only* be flying
formation and aeros for a while... ...but who said life was fair. :)
Clear day to all,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
I found out last week that my Commander Roost is changing its identifier.
It will no longer be X 42. It will change to 02FA.
Does anyone have any information on how extensive this is? Is my out of
date data base in my "Fly Buddy" going to be real junk?
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Hey Bilbo,
They've been changing identifiers here in northern California at the rate of
one or two every few years. My portable GPS database is from 1996, so I've
managed to memorize new/old identifiers for several airports. I have to tell
ATC the "new" names as destinations, but program the "old" names into my gps
for my flight plans!
No coordinates have changed and things still work with the GPS just like
they should.
Sooner or later I'll send Garmin my $65 to update the database. Or I'll
finally get around to putting my GNS430 in my panel...
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
To:
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 1:37 PM
Subject: identifiers
> I found out last week that my Commander Roost is changing its identifier.
> It will no longer be X 42. It will change to 02FA.
>
> Does anyone have any information on how extensive this is? Is my out of
> date data base in my "Fly Buddy" going to be real junk?
>
>
> bilbo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Fitzharris <davefitzharris(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Our Conversation |
Hi Nico,
Still haven't heard from you. Did you say you are leaving tomorrow? Will
we have time to get together before you leave, or do you want to address it
when you come back?
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
Nico,
We would also be interested in any 680s that could be converted with the
IO-720s.
We should be able to come up with 2 or more ships sets of engines and parts
after the order we are currently working on.
Later, we would like to know where some 680V,T,W, and 681s are for the
Orenda conversion.
Any condition would be considered since they would go through a complete
IRAN with the new engines.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
I've been told that the private strips are 4 characters. Was it Was it
broke?
I wonder how much that cost us.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: identifiers
> Hey Bilbo,
>
> They've been changing identifiers here in northern California at the rate
of
> one or two every few years. My portable GPS database is from 1996, so I've
> managed to memorize new/old identifiers for several airports. I have to
tell
> ATC the "new" names as destinations, but program the "old" names into my
gps
> for my flight plans!
>
> No coordinates have changed and things still work with the GPS just like
> they should.
>
> Sooner or later I'll send Garmin my $65 to update the database. Or I'll
> finally get around to putting my GNS430 in my panel...
>
> /John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 1:37 PM
> Subject: identifiers
>
>
> > I found out last week that my Commander Roost is changing its
identifier.
> > It will no longer be X 42. It will change to 02FA.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information on how extensive this is? Is my out of
> > date data base in my "Fly Buddy" going to be real junk?
> >
> >
> > bilbo
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
The only approach to X 42 or 02FA is, go to Groveland, Fl take Empire Church Road
south to Matioda go left and look to the right for airport signs.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: w.bow(at)att.net
Cc: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: identifiers
In a message dated 10/8/01 1:55:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, w.bow(at)att.net writes:
Does anyone have any information on how extensive this is? Is my out of
date data base in my "Fly Buddy" going to be real junk?
As I understand it, as airports get instrument approaches, their idents have
to conform to some naming scheme.
With more and more airports getting GPS approaches where none existed before,
this is happening a lot.
Better get current!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/8/01 1:55:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> Does anyone have any information on how extensive this is? Is my out of
> date data base in my "Fly Buddy" going to be real junk?
>
As I understand it, as airports get instrument approaches, their idents have
to conform to some naming scheme.
With more and more airports getting GPS approaches where none existed before,
this is happening a lot.
Better get current!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
I know I'm probably preaching to the Lycoming Choir, but does any body know
what the Max oil pressure is on startup on an IO 470 M?
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Hey, I've flown all sorts of that type of approach! They can be even trickier than
DME arcs, sometimes...
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: Bow
To: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Cc: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: identifiers
The only approach to X 42 or 02FA is, go to Groveland, Fl take Empire Church
Road south to Matioda go left and look to the right for airport signs.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: w.bow(at)att.net
Cc: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: identifiers
In a message dated 10/8/01 1:55:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
Does anyone have any information on how extensive this is? Is my out of
date data base in my "Fly Buddy" going to be real junk?
As I understand it, as airports get instrument approaches, their idents have
to conform to some naming scheme.
With more and more airports getting GPS approaches where none existed before,
this is happening a lot.
Better get current!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
Bow,
The international identifies for overseas airports are mostly 4 letters.
The ICAO has a system for making them up.
The first two spaces seem to be for the country and last two for a specific
airport.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Bow [mailto:w.bow(at)att.net]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 4:54 PM
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: identifiers
I've been told that the private strips are 4 characters. Was it Was it
broke?
I wonder how much that cost us.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: identifiers
> Hey Bilbo,
>
> They've been changing identifiers here in northern California at the rate
of
> one or two every few years. My portable GPS database is from 1996, so I've
> managed to memorize new/old identifiers for several airports. I have to
tell
> ATC the "new" names as destinations, but program the "old" names into my
gps
> for my flight plans!
>
> No coordinates have changed and things still work with the GPS just like
> they should.
>
> Sooner or later I'll send Garmin my $65 to update the database. Or I'll
> finally get around to putting my GNS430 in my panel...
>
> /John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 1:37 PM
> Subject: identifiers
>
>
> > I found out last week that my Commander Roost is changing its
identifier.
> > It will no longer be X 42. It will change to 02FA.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information on how extensive this is? Is my out of
> > date data base in my "Fly Buddy" going to be real junk?
> >
> >
> > bilbo
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Bow wrote:
>
> I know I'm probably preaching to the Lycoming Choir, but does any body know
> what the Max oil pressure is on startup on an IO 470 M?
>
> bilbo
According to the "spec sheet" on that engine, the acceptable
operating range for oil pressure is 30-60 lbs with a hot idle
minimum of 10 lbs. I've seen some engines push over the 60lb
limit slightly when cold - especially with a heavy weight
oil at high RPMs. If you're running way over the limit, you
might want to have your bypass checked.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Well, better late than never. My appologies to Crunk and Joe
for the tardiness. I've pretty much been working around the
clock trying to keep the wheels on and have fallen behind in
my Commander-related duties...
Oct's Commander of the Month is now online. The featured
aero-babe is Jim and Joe's 560F.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
I'm trying to get the HOT number(with washers) so the parallax isn't the
factor that makes it legal.
On my gauge the "Red" area is very small, both at the top and the bottom of
the "Green". The at idle number is very low and well below the red part on
the gauge. I think the limiting factor is the pressure on the oil cooler.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: choir
> Bow wrote:
> >
> > I know I'm probably preaching to the Lycoming Choir, but does any body
know
> > what the Max oil pressure is on startup on an IO 470 M?
> >
> > bilbo
>
> According to the "spec sheet" on that engine, the acceptable
> operating range for oil pressure is 30-60 lbs with a hot idle
> minimum of 10 lbs. I've seen some engines push over the 60lb
> limit slightly when cold - especially with a heavy weight
> oil at high RPMs. If you're running way over the limit, you
> might want to have your bypass checked.
>
> Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Bow wrote:
>
> I'm trying to get the HOT number(with washers) so the parallax isn't the
> factor that makes it legal.
>
> On my gauge the "Red" area is very small, both at the top and the bottom of
> the "Green". The at idle number is very low and well below the red part on
> the gauge. I think the limiting factor is the pressure on the oil cooler.
If you're above redline when hot, I've gotta think that the bypass
valve is stuck. Not sure exactly what setup your bird has - do you
have a vernatherm controller? How is your oil temp running?
If your idle pressure is above 10 lbs (that may be below red on your
gauge depending on how it's marked) then you're okay there.
You might also want to have your gauge checked. Its not at all
unusual to find one of those old "steam gauges" way off.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Here's some off-topic fun...
Last year, I signed myself and my wife up for a "Top Gun"
school.... I also gave this to my father as an x-mas present.
She was scared to death and worried that she'd get airsick.
The sweet wife:
http://aerocommander.com/Tmp/kim1f.jpg
The Father:
http://aerocommander.com/Tmp/max2f.jpg
Wife returning from some SERIOUS "YANK-n-BANK"
http://aerocommander.com/Tmp/mvc-002f.jpg
I created a monster! The instructor told me that
for a solid hour she twisted that poor T6 through just
about everything it was capable of. I returned from work
the next day to find my G-junkie wife reading trade-a-plane
ads for T6's and T-28's .... how COOl is that!?!?!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Bilbo,
I just replaced my 3-in-1 gauges. My old ones sound suspiciously like they
look like yours. My engines indicate low red or lower on idle when starting
(especially when the oil is already heated up). When it's cold, the first
takeoff usually runs the oil pressure up to the top redline, then it comes
down when I get about 800' AGL. I've always had a low indication at idle,
and the engines seem to be running & oiling fine, so I haven't worried about
it. I have discovered that the old steam gauges just aren't that accurate in
the very low or very high part of the needle travel. I generally only trust
them at cruise, when if everything is normal, the pressures are in the
middle of the arc of the needle travel.
Incidentally, if I had the $$, I'd try a JPI engine monitor and really see
what the engines are doing.
I never asked Morris (Commander Services), but part of that is because every
IO-540 I have experience with seems to behave that way. I only know the
behavior of Lycs, but I thought that might help...
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
To:
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: choir
> I'm trying to get the HOT number(with washers) so the parallax isn't the
> factor that makes it legal.
>
> On my gauge the "Red" area is very small, both at the top and the bottom
of
> the "Green". The at idle number is very low and well below the red part
on
> the gauge. I think the limiting factor is the pressure on the oil cooler.
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 7:05 PM
> Subject: Re: choir
>
>
> > Bow wrote:
> > >
> > > I know I'm probably preaching to the Lycoming Choir, but does any body
> know
> > > what the Max oil pressure is on startup on an IO 470 M?
> > >
> > > bilbo
> >
> > According to the "spec sheet" on that engine, the acceptable
> > operating range for oil pressure is 30-60 lbs with a hot idle
> > minimum of 10 lbs. I've seen some engines push over the 60lb
> > limit slightly when cold - especially with a heavy weight
> > oil at high RPMs. If you're running way over the limit, you
> > might want to have your bypass checked.
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
John Vormbaum wrote:
> When it's cold, the first
> takeoff usually runs the oil pressure up to the top redline, then it comes
> down when I get about 800' AGL. I've always had a low indication at idle
>I generally only trust
> them at cruise, when if everything is normal, the pressures are in the
> middle of the arc of the needle travel.
Yup... I've also seen that exact behavior on most healthy Lycs.
I think the initial high pressure is caused by the cold oil not
flowing well through the oil cooler. Once you squeeze the goo
out and get some warm oil flowing, it drops right to where it should
be.
I agree completly with John. If you've got mid-green readings at
cruise then everything is pretty fine. You'll see the hot idle
numbers slowly drop with hours as clearances grow. The Lycs need
considerably more pressure than the Continentals and I start to
worry when they don't hold much pressure at 1000 RPM.... Generally
tired main bearings...
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 560 Turbo charger system |
Hi Guys,
Had a phone conversation with Capt. jimbob last night about an old STC I found
that put a pair of turbos on the GO-480 series engines. At his suggestion I called
Dick (Mr. RPM) this afternoon and had a wonderful conversation. As it turns
out, he was already working with the STC that I was referring to. He is in
the process of reworking the STC with a more "modern" turbo system of his design.
He claims it will be ready in @12 to 18 months for installations. The new
"system" will run @25 to 30K installed. Single turbo per engine with intercooler
and automatic waste gate. I am excited about the prospect. I think it might
be a great addition to a number of 500 series commanders with the GO series
engines. Do you think there would be a fair amount of interest from commander
land? Let me know your thoughts
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/8/01 4:49:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
>
I like the sounds of that!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560 Turbo charger system |
HI JOHN......
I need to tell you about a guy you should get to know in your
neck of the woods (Titusville). Harry Merritt has about two tons on
experience with these old Commanders (I bought my current "Aero-Babe" from
him). He know some about the old turbo systems. He monitors this list and
will probably reply but if not, call him at 321-267-3141. Tell him
Hi....................jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/8/01 4:59:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> .
YEP, that is it! My R-985 will go through oil coolers faster than you can
change your socks if you run over 90PSI jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS..........
I think I saw a Mr. Dave Maytag on the list?? If so. He needs
to join the group because there is about a 1/2 page story in the next FGN
about his family's long assosiation with Commanders. If you are out there
sir, let me know!! Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Perhaps useless information: The viscosity of the oil decreases as the
temperature increases. (Water = low viscosity; molasses = high viscosity).
But you knew that.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: choir
> John Vormbaum wrote:
> > When it's cold, the first
> > takeoff usually runs the oil pressure up to the top redline, then it
comes
> > down when I get about 800' AGL. I've always had a low indication at idle
> >I generally only trust
> > them at cruise, when if everything is normal, the pressures are in the
> > middle of the arc of the needle travel.
>
>
> Yup... I've also seen that exact behavior on most healthy Lycs.
> I think the initial high pressure is caused by the cold oil not
> flowing well through the oil cooler. Once you squeeze the goo
> out and get some warm oil flowing, it drops right to where it should
> be.
> I agree completly with John. If you've got mid-green readings at
> cruise then everything is pretty fine. You'll see the hot idle
> numbers slowly drop with hours as clearances grow. The Lycs need
> considerably more pressure than the Continentals and I start to
> worry when they don't hold much pressure at 1000 RPM.... Generally
> tired main bearings...
>
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/08/01 15:09:25 Pacific Daylight Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> The only approach to X 42 or 02FA is, go to Groveland, Fl take Empire Church
>
Name the intersections and publish altitudes along the road segments and you
have a bona fide approach.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Sure thing, Nico. That's why I never really cared that my OP was up high on
the first takeoff of the day....I figured that was the deal.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
To: "Chris Schuermann" ;
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: choir
> Perhaps useless information: The viscosity of the oil decreases as the
> temperature increases. (Water = low viscosity; molasses = high viscosity).
> But you knew that.
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 5:58 PM
> Subject: Re: choir
>
>
> > John Vormbaum wrote:
> > > When it's cold, the first
> > > takeoff usually runs the oil pressure up to the top redline, then it
> comes
> > > down when I get about 800' AGL. I've always had a low indication at
idle
> > >I generally only trust
> > > them at cruise, when if everything is normal, the pressures are in the
> > > middle of the arc of the needle travel.
> >
> >
> > Yup... I've also seen that exact behavior on most healthy Lycs.
> > I think the initial high pressure is caused by the cold oil not
> > flowing well through the oil cooler. Once you squeeze the goo
> > out and get some warm oil flowing, it drops right to where it should
> > be.
> > I agree completly with John. If you've got mid-green readings at
> > cruise then everything is pretty fine. You'll see the hot idle
> > numbers slowly drop with hours as clearances grow. The Lycs need
> > considerably more pressure than the Continentals and I start to
> > worry when they don't hold much pressure at 1000 RPM.... Generally
> > tired main bearings...
> >
> > Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560 Turbo charger system |
Hrm, that would be an awsome item. I would love to see if anyone took up my idea
about using the hydraulics to give us an electric powered heating system instead
of the Janitrol.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net>
To: COMMANDERCHAT(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Date: Monday, October 08, 2001 6:04 PM
Subject: 560 Turbo charger system
Hi Guys,
Had a phone conversation with Capt. jimbob last night about an old STC I found
that put a pair of turbos on the GO-480 series engines. At his suggestion
I called Dick (Mr. RPM) this afternoon and had a wonderful conversation. As it
turns out, he was already working with the STC that I was referring to. He is
in the process of reworking the STC with a more "modern" turbo system of his
design. He claims it will be ready in @12 to 18 months for installations. The
new "system" will run @25 to 30K installed. Single turbo per engine with intercooler
and automatic waste gate. I am excited about the prospect. I think it
might be a great addition to a number of 500 series commanders with the GO series
engines. Do you think there would be a fair amount of interest from commander
land? Let me know your thoughts
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 560 Turbo charger system |
That's very creative thinking. Have you considered a career at Lockheed?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Intrex
To: john williams ; COMMANDERCHAT(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: 560 Turbo charger system
Hrm, that would be an awsome item. I would love to see if anyone took up my
idea about using the hydraulics to give us an electric powered heating system
instead of the Janitrol.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net>
To: COMMANDERCHAT(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Date: Monday, October 08, 2001 6:04 PM
Subject: 560 Turbo charger system
Hi Guys,
Had a phone conversation with Capt. jimbob last night about an old STC I found
that put a pair of turbos on the GO-480 series engines. At his suggestion
I called Dick (Mr. RPM) this afternoon and had a wonderful conversation. As it
turns out, he was already working with the STC that I was referring to. He is
in the process of reworking the STC with a more "modern" turbo system of his
design. He claims it will be ready in @12 to 18 months for installations. The
new "system" will run @25 to 30K installed. Single turbo per engine with intercooler
and automatic waste gate. I am excited about the prospect. I think it
might be a great addition to a number of 500 series commanders with the GO series
engines. Do you think there would be a fair amount of interest from commander
land? Let me know your thoughts
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 560 Turbo charger system |
I do hate the idea of a gasoline fired heater burning only a couple feet away from
me. Understandably it makes a lot of people nervous. I wonder how much juice
a 12 or 24V heater would pull. Flying in Florida a heater is not real high
on the "required equipment" list but I have already used the one in my 560. The
second day of the trip home with the airplane the temp dropped to 65 degrees
during the night. Thought I was going to die! The heater got used that day! --John
----- Original Message -----
From: Intrex
To: john williams ; COMMANDERCHAT(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: 560 Turbo charger system
Hrm, that would be an awsome item. I would love to see if anyone took up my
idea about using the hydraulics to give us an electric powered heating system
instead of the Janitrol.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net>
To: COMMANDERCHAT(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Date: Monday, October 08, 2001 6:04 PM
Subject: 560 Turbo charger system
Hi Guys,
Had a phone conversation with Capt. jimbob last night about an old STC I found
that put a pair of turbos on the GO-480 series engines. At his suggestion
I called Dick (Mr. RPM) this afternoon and had a wonderful conversation. As it
turns out, he was already working with the STC that I was referring to. He is
in the process of reworking the STC with a more "modern" turbo system of his
design. He claims it will be ready in @12 to 18 months for installations. The
new "system" will run @25 to 30K installed. Single turbo per engine with intercooler
and automatic waste gate. I am excited about the prospect. I think it
might be a great addition to a number of 500 series commanders with the GO series
engines. Do you think there would be a fair amount of interest from commander
land? Let me know your thoughts
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | OpinionJournal - Best of the Web Today - October 9, 2001 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Laxson <wlaxson(at)corecom.net> |
| Subject: | Electric Heaters |
A 14V 100A alternator generates 1400 watts. Multiply by 3.412 to get
BTU's, or 4776 BTU.
Gasoline has about 120,000 BTU/gallon, so a gas heater the size of your
alternator would burn .04 gallons of gas/hour. That's less than my
featerweight gas expedition camp stove (7500 BTU).
I don't know the exact ratings of typical aircraft gas fired heaters
(Janitrol,Southwind), but I'm sure it's much higher than 5000 BUT. The
smallest sailboat heater I've used was 40,000 BTU, and they had models
up to 200,000 BTU.
It's hard to get that amount of heat using 12V or 24V electricity.
If we only used water cooling for our engines, we could recover lots of
wasted BTU's.
William Laxson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Check out Trulock: Security Lapses Are Clinton's Fault |
Click
here: Trulock: Security Lapses Are Clinton's Fault
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater discussion |
I had a silly idea. I'm not the engineering type but here goes a simple
solution(maybe!!). What if you removed the heater unit and in it's place you
put a large oil cooler or even better two sandwiched together(Left & Right
engine). You then ran oil lines from the engine driven pump of each engine
to a cooler then to the oil tank. You then fan force air over the coolers
into the existing heater duct system. The two coolers(one on top of the
other) would be no "thicker" then the existing heater. It would be lighter.
It would provide more oil capacity(not that I need it ) and it would help
cool the engines. Would require no water or extra system to circulate the
water. --John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 9:40 PM
Subject: Heater discussion
> John Williams wrote:
> >I do hate the idea of a gasoline fired heater burning only a couple feet
away from me.
> >Understandably it makes a lot of people nervous. I wonder how much juice
a 12 or 24V heater would
> >pull.
>
>
> I've pondered this a bit and my gut feel is that it would require at
> least a 4000W electric heater to be sufficient. I have a 1200W and
> a 2000W electric heater in my office (don't ask) and the two of them
> together might keep the frost off the instruments.
> 4000W from a 24V system would pull aprox 167 Amp. Probably the
> reason we don't see heaters of this type used.
>
> For the hydraulicly driven version posed earlier...
> I think 4kw is about 6hp if my failing brain cells serve.
> Assuming shp->hydraulic pressure->motor->generator is only about
> 25% efficient (WAG) you'd need to draw about 24hp from the engine
> to power that way. I kinda doubt that the accessory housing would
> handle that load.
>
> Good ideas though!
>
> In my opinion, a circulating liquid system would be interesting to
> explore. We've already got heat we're trying to get rid of....
> Do an oil-to-water heat exchanger and then a small radiator in
> the cockpit. The only drawback is some weight from the liquid.
>
>
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater discussion |
Ok-new addition to the heater idea. Same set up as before (duel oil coolers
in the nose)but with a new twist. Take the ram air that's already coming
into the heater area. Run it into the oil coolers. Out of the oil coolers
place a "Y" valve for the out going hot air. When you want heat the valve is
placed in the "cabin" position when you don't want heat it's placed in the
"over board" position. In the exhaust or over board position the hot air is
sent out of the aircraft. This way the engines always gain the extra
cooling, summer and winter. Most of the time the ram air into the cabin will
be enough to provide the necessary "heat" but the existing blower can be
kept to provide supplemental air flow when necessary.--John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 9:40 PM
Subject: Heater discussion
> John Williams wrote:
> >I do hate the idea of a gasoline fired heater burning only a couple feet
away from me.
> >Understandably it makes a lot of people nervous. I wonder how much juice
a 12 or 24V heater would
> >pull.
>
>
> I've pondered this a bit and my gut feel is that it would require at
> least a 4000W electric heater to be sufficient. I have a 1200W and
> a 2000W electric heater in my office (don't ask) and the two of them
> together might keep the frost off the instruments.
> 4000W from a 24V system would pull aprox 167 Amp. Probably the
> reason we don't see heaters of this type used.
>
> For the hydraulicly driven version posed earlier...
> I think 4kw is about 6hp if my failing brain cells serve.
> Assuming shp->hydraulic pressure->motor->generator is only about
> 25% efficient (WAG) you'd need to draw about 24hp from the engine
> to power that way. I kinda doubt that the accessory housing would
> handle that load.
>
> Good ideas though!
>
> In my opinion, a circulating liquid system would be interesting to
> explore. We've already got heat we're trying to get rid of....
> Do an oil-to-water heat exchanger and then a small radiator in
> the cockpit. The only drawback is some weight from the liquid.
>
>
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater discussion |
In a message dated 10/9/01 7:23:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net writes:
> I had a silly idea. I'm not the engineering type but here goes a simple
>
HI JOHN.........
No idea is silly but I think the best solution is a freshly
overhauled heater from Aircraft Heating in Redding CA 800-409-4328. I did a
"bootleg" overhaul on mine last year (new ignitor and vibrator, cleaned up
the grounds etc, about $150 in parts) and the thing works GREAT, as have all
my Commander heaters. Just my .02 worth jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | The future history of heat |
In a message dated 10/09/01 19:01:51 Pacific Daylight Time,
wlaxson(at)corecom.net writes:
> If we only used water cooling for our engines, we could recover lots of
> wasted BTU's.
>
Dick MacCoon has this happening on the Orenda conversion package for the
AC-685.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Odum <calnet01(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater discussion |
Guys,
I'm back ! How you doing ? Didn't have e:Mail thanks to the wonderful company I
work for !
I don't think the FAA would have approved the use of these heaters if they weren't
safe. I've been
flying behind Jantrol heaters now for 40 years - yes it was 40 years ago last week
that I took my
first flying lesson at the tender age of 8. I have never had a problem from a safety
standpoint.
I make sure that the heater in 80E is in satisfactory operating condition and that
all AD's are
complied with. In fact I need to change a few ducting hoses this week come to think
of it. Better add
that to our list Barry !
I use a one of those new fangled CO detectors and have never seen anything abnormal
in the cabin. The
only time I have a problem is when that !@#$% thing doesn't work. Keep your fuel
filters clean. they
cylce quite a bit if you don't.
I also fly 80E up at altitude all the time so I'm wearing O2 on every flight. This
adds to my comfort
level with the CO issues.
P51PAUL
Chris Schuermann wrote:
> John Williams wrote:
> >I do hate the idea of a gasoline fired heater burning only a couple feet away
from me.
> >Understandably it makes a lot of people nervous. I wonder how much juice a 12
or 24V heater would
> >pull.
>
> I've pondered this a bit and my gut feel is that it would require at
> least a 4000W electric heater to be sufficient. I have a 1200W and
> a 2000W electric heater in my office (don't ask) and the two of them
> together might keep the frost off the instruments.
> 4000W from a 24V system would pull aprox 167 Amp. Probably the
> reason we don't see heaters of this type used.
>
> For the hydraulicly driven version posed earlier...
> I think 4kw is about 6hp if my failing brain cells serve.
> Assuming shp->hydraulic pressure->motor->generator is only about
> 25% efficient (WAG) you'd need to draw about 24hp from the engine
> to power that way. I kinda doubt that the accessory housing would
> handle that load.
>
> Good ideas though!
>
> In my opinion, a circulating liquid system would be interesting to
> explore. We've already got heat we're trying to get rid of....
> Do an oil-to-water heat exchanger and then a small radiator in
> the cockpit. The only drawback is some weight from the liquid.
>
> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Odum <calnet01(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater discussion |
Jim,
The best suggestion yet ! Keep the thing in excellent condition and it
will keep going and going and going and .....
Paul
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/9/01 7:23:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>> I had a silly idea. I'm not the engineering type but here goes a
>> simple
>> solution(maybe!!).
>
> HI JOHN.........
>
> No idea is silly but I think the best solution is a
> freshly overhauled heater from Aircraft Heating in Redding CA
> 800-409-4328. I did a "bootleg" overhaul on mine last year (new
> ignitor and vibrator, cleaned up the grounds etc, about $150 in parts)
> and the thing works GREAT, as have all my Commander heaters. Just my
> .02 worth jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS............
Just got back from a really cool flight in triple 2. I worked
on the nose gear a bit, had a littttle ssiimmyy, so I adjusted stuff and
installed new wheel bearings. Anyway, Mark, one of the local airport junkies
and the proud owner on a brand new Husky, invited me on a "Clark County grass
airport tour." He showed me several strips that were right under my nose
that I had never considered usable but after visiting them in the Husky, I
says to me self "I can do that!"
Sooooooooooo I climbed in old triple 2 with another local pilot
ridding shotgun and we were off. We went to 5 strips, the longest 2300 the
shortest was private and unmarked but I think about 1800?? We first landed
at "Fly for fun" 2300 grass completely surrounded my houses, completely!
Easy approach but really looks strange, like landing in the middle of a
subdivision.
Next was a private strip, it has a name but it escapes me just now,
completely open and flat, grass 2300ft. Then over to Goheen. 2200 grass
with a pretty pronounced "hump" in the middle an a bridge at the far end!
Landed downhill (Oops) Took off up hill (double oops) but did it super easy
(we had about 195 gals on). Then went to the short strip, "Daybreak" Great
little grass strip in a valley right beside the Lewis River. We did the
"river visual" approach that puts over the river and between a couple of
trees on short final. You land out of a left turn. Smooth and no sweat!
Got out EASY @ 44 inches!
Then to the only paved strip on the tour, "Green Mountain," 2000 feet and
really narrow. The approach hangs you just above the trees on downwind and
like "Daybreak" you land out of a left turn. There is a road 20 feet from
the end (you can literally hang a wing over the road when you turn around).
A car wisely chose to yield as we went across the end. Once again in great
form, I landed downhill! Took a little brake to stop (Gota love them
cleavlands!) Got out supper easy.
Then back to the big (2700) Grove field where triple 2 lives. What a
blast!! Only flew about 40 minutes but soooooooooooo much fun!
Hope all is well in Commanderland jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater discussion |
Why use water and oil??
Use the hot oil to a radiator in the cabin. Or is that a fire hazard the
FAA would not like.
With the Orenda engines that are water cooled, it will be something to look
into.
I am glad you thought of that. I will talk to Dick about it.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com [mailto:chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 8:41 PM
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Heater discussion
John Williams wrote:
>I do hate the idea of a gasoline fired heater burning only a couple feet
away from me.
>Understandably it makes a lot of people nervous. I wonder how much juice a
12 or 24V heater would
>pull.
I've pondered this a bit and my gut feel is that it would require at
least a 4000W electric heater to be sufficient. I have a 1200W and
a 2000W electric heater in my office (don't ask) and the two of them
together might keep the frost off the instruments.
4000W from a 24V system would pull aprox 167 Amp. Probably the
reason we don't see heaters of this type used.
For the hydraulicly driven version posed earlier...
I think 4kw is about 6hp if my failing brain cells serve.
Assuming shp->hydraulic pressure->motor->generator is only about
25% efficient (WAG) you'd need to draw about 24hp from the engine
to power that way. I kinda doubt that the accessory housing would
handle that load.
Good ideas though!
In my opinion, a circulating liquid system would be interesting to
explore. We've already got heat we're trying to get rid of....
Do an oil-to-water heat exchanger and then a small radiator in
the cockpit. The only drawback is some weight from the liquid.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Merritt <avtec(at)scci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Who wants a commander? |
Please sent me the list
Harry THANKS
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> I am going to look at some commanders overseas. There might be a
> bargain. Is there anybody out there that wants me to look for
> somehting specific? Be quick with a response I am ready to go. Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: N414C
> To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 4:49 AM
> Subject: Re: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
> Mississippi is still here. I think everybody has been busy
> watching TV. Nice to know were finally pasting those
> bastards. Milt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 9:21 PM
> Subject: ANYBODY OUT THERE??
> HI KIDS..........
>
> Just wondering if I fell of line??
> Haven't had a post since last night. Hope all is
> well in Commanderland. I am working hard on the
> Newsletter, will send soon 9I promise) jb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WilliamPeper(at)cs.com <WilliamPeper(at)cs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who wants a commander? |
Hey, Nico
If anyone wants to save themselves the trouble of overseas foraging, take a
look at my 1970 500S (only 2850 TT). It's a nice bird, and it's for sale.
I'll be happy to provide info if you need.
Thanks for passing the word!
Bill Peper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/10/01 9:14:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bhermel(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Iam all for experimental..but then I forgot about resale/
>
Wag Aero "Cubbys" sell for anbout the same as a Cub, I just had this
discution with my Son yesrerday. I would much rather own an "experimental"
cub thatn a certified one. .............jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trip across the north to Europe |
>Therefore ... I have to plan below FL290 and therefore will fly the same
>route that a Commander would likely fly; albeit a bit longer legs, faster
>and higher.
Keith,
No whining now.
Our C130s do it all the time at FL250 and below.
The C130 aircraft is not a very comfortable aircraft and is real noisy,
terrible inflight meals and without a flight attendant. (except the load
master)
I think you have the better deal.
btw If you do run into a problem let us know on 121.5/243.0 or
appropriate HF radio.
We have a sister rescue unit at Keflavik in Iceland.
(rescue helicopters with C130s for the inflight refuelings)
We'll pick you up if you have a problem on the Northern section of your
route.
(don't forget to bring a poopy suit, environmental Survival suit).
Major Sharp,
USAF 129th Rescue squadron. Fly Safe...
CloudCraft(at)aol.com said:
>The interesting thing about this trip is that although this Falcon is
>equipped for the easy way to do this, the Letter of Authorization to use all
>that Buck Rogers gear probably won't be in force as the aircraft is changing
>ownership.
>
>Therefore ... I have to plan below FL290 and therefore will fly the same
>route that a Commander would likely fly; albeit a bit longer legs, faster
>and higher.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater discussion |
In a message dated 10/10/01 8:26:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
calnet01(at)gte.net writes:
> Why don't we all just re-register our airplanes as EXPERIMENTAL and move on
>
HI KIDS...............
Sadly, it just aint that easy. There are several categories of
experimental. (amateur built, airshow/exibition, research and development and
so on) The only category that approaches "normal use" is amateur built. All
of the other categories carry with them stringent (although in some cases
negotiable) restrictions that may include "necessary crew members only" "only
training and familiarization flights" "flights within 50 SM of the aircraft
base" etc. Barry Hancock, what are your operating limitations like for your
airplane??
Anyway, if it could be done reasonably, mine would already be there!!
My other airplane is experimental, Amateur built and you cant imagine how
much better life is! You can register your airplane as experimenta,
but.......................jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE / WANTED?? |
HI KIDS.............
I am about ready to print the next Flight Group News. Anybody
have anything to sell, buy, trade?? Let me know ASAP. Remember that only
about 25% of our members are active on the list so you can reach a bunch of
Commander guys. Its free. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/19/01 07:44:02 Pacific Daylight Time,
skipper10(at)peoplepc.com writes:
> I thought that it was so they could contact me in the event of intercept
> (why don't they just say something on the frequency they are controlling me
> on?). Lately I have been wondering whether it is so I can give a discreet
> call in the event of my being hijacked.
If you read the intercept procedures in the Airmans' Information Manual,
you'll see that the interceptor will call on 121.5.
This is an international agreement, always has been.
If the intercept called on ATC frequencies, it would add to clutter on the
freq. and confusion.
Besides, this way, the entire nation can listen to you get intercepted.
By the way, I just spent a week flying with a pilot who flew his companie's
jet to Dulles, Washington, a few days after the WTC attack as a Lifeguard
flight to deliver skin graft supplies.
He had F-16s on each wing tip the last 100 miles of his flight, all the way
to landing. I also heard a VFR Lear get "looked at" while I was letting down
to Providence, R.I. The Lear was trying to save time, I guess, and the
controller working me was also working the interceptors.
They are very much out there.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander jump planes..?? |
HI RANDY......
Actually, except for the wear and tear on the airplane, they
make great jump planes. The tail is high and the supercharged models climb
well. The 680 that President Eisenhower flew and was restored for the Air
force museum was for a time a jump plane in Colorado.
I do not think you need an STC to fly with the door off but cant say
for sure. If the TC provides for "flight with the door removed" then all you
need is a logbook entry from and A & P. That said, I sure wouldn't abuse my
personal airplane that way!! Good Luck capt jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander jump planes..?? |
In a message dated 10/19/01 18:06:49 Pacific Daylight Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> Here's a question for you guys with tons of Commander experience... How
> does the Twin Commander work as a "jump plane". I often fly as a jump pilot
> in a Cessna 182, and am frequently asked about jumping out of my 680F. Do
> you guys have any experience removing doors and seats from Commanders for
> purposes of parachute jumping. Is a STC required..?? Are there any
> modifications required..?? Is it a good or bad idea..??
Randy,
There is / was a Commander in Colorado Springs, used by the Air Force academy
as a jump plane. Sir Barry probably has the exact model and serial number.
I believe there is some -- what I call "standing" paperwork -- that you could
obtain to remove the door. Don't know off hand where to find it, unless it's
an STC.
The answer to the last quetion you had: It's always a bad idea to jump out
of a plane, in my opinion. (Old crusty Frontier Airlines captain who was my
sail plane mentor told me never to fly anything that made me use my own legs
for landing gear.)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander jump planes..?? |
Hi All!
Yes, a couple of the USAF Model 680 Commanders were used at Colorado Springs for
jumping. All seats were removed, except one of course, and the door was removed
and a wind blast deflector installed on the hinges. The pilot tried to get
back down and land while the last jumper was still in the air!
I'm pretty sure that for the door to be removed, FAA approval was sought on an
Application for Airworthiness in the Experimental category for civilian-registered
Commanders. And, on the approval form the FAA sent back, it was a condition
that all occupants wore parachutes. Hmmm! Good thinking guys. In fact, it may
have been like a dual certificate. With the door off, you flew by certain rules
& regs., with it back in place, you were back under 'Standard - Normal' category.
If anybody needs me to look into it seriously, I'll try and find some sample paperwork.
Have fun!
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: rcdettmer(at)charter.net
Cc: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Commander jump planes..??
In a message dated 10/19/01 18:06:49 Pacific Daylight Time, rcdettmer(at)charter.net
writes:
Here's a question for you guys with tons of Commander experience... How
does the Twin Commander work as a "jump plane". I often fly as a jump pilot
in a Cessna 182, and am frequently asked about jumping out of my 680F. Do
you guys have any experience removing doors and seats from Commanders for
purposes of parachute jumping. Is a STC required..?? Are there any
modifications required..?? Is it a good or bad idea..??
Randy,
There is / was a Commander in Colorado Springs, used by the Air Force academy
as a jump plane. Sir Barry probably has the exact model and serial number.
I believe there is some -- what I call "standing" paperwork -- that you could
obtain to remove the door. Don't know off hand where to find it, unless it's
an STC.
The answer to the last quetion you had: It's always a bad idea to jump out of
a plane, in my opinion. (Old crusty Frontier Airlines captain who was my sail
plane mentor told me never to fly anything that made me use my own legs for
landing gear.)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
I guess now is not the time to bragg about the aerocommander record vs hornets
lest the Navy interceptors get the wrong idea.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: skipper10(at)peoplepc.com ; commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: class B
In a message dated 10/19/01 07:44:02 Pacific Daylight Time, skipper10(at)peoplepc.com
writes:
I thought that it was so they could contact me in the event of intercept (why
don't they just say something on the frequency they are controlling me on?).
Lately I have been wondering whether it is so I can give a discreet call in
the event of my being hijacked.
If you read the intercept procedures in the Airmans' Information Manual, you'll
see that the interceptor will call on 121.5.
This is an international agreement, always has been.
If the intercept called on ATC frequencies, it would add to clutter on the freq.
and confusion.
Besides, this way, the entire nation can listen to you get intercepted.
By the way, I just spent a week flying with a pilot who flew his companie's jet
to Dulles, Washington, a few days after the WTC attack as a Lifeguard flight
to deliver skin graft supplies.
He had F-16s on each wing tip the last 100 miles of his flight, all the way to
landing. I also heard a VFR Lear get "looked at" while I was letting down to
Providence, R.I. The Lear was trying to save time, I guess, and the controller
working me was also working the interceptors.
They are very much out there.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS........
I just received the application from Dave Maytag (yes, that
Maytag) He and his family have a long history with Commanders (see last
newsletter, did everybody get theirs)? He is looking for a 680F or FL.
Anybody know of one?? Welcome Dave!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ANOTHER NEW MEMBER |
HI KIDS............
Well, Sue and I have been talking about doing this since we
first got married but today was the day. We added a new family member! She
is a double yellow headed (??) amazon parrot named "Frazia." She is about 3
years old and is already talking up a storm. I know Milt has a bird, an
African Gray I think? Anyway, I hope she likes to fly!! What am I thinking,
of course she likes to fly, DUH.
Hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | blake hermel <bhermel(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ANOTHER NEW MEMBER |
Hi everybody,
Wondering of anybody knew anything about the 520 for sale with Barron Thomas,it
sure has been there awhile,Barry?????? thanks for any input,
Blake Hermel
>From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: ANOTHER NEW MEMBER
>Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:45:55 EDT
>
>HI KIDS............
>
> Well, Sue and I have been talking about doing this since we
>first got married but today was the day. We added a new family member! She
>is a double yellow headed (??) amazon parrot named "Frazia." She is about 3
>years old and is already talking up a storm. I know Milt has a bird, an
>African Gray I think? Anyway, I hope she likes to fly!! What am I thinking,
>of course she likes to fly, DUH.
> Hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | CIA Told to Do 'Whatever Necessary' to Kill Bin Laden |
Very good article...
Click
here: CIA Told to Do 'Whatever Necessary' to Kill Bin Laden
(washingtonpost.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert J. Wilhelm <leopard(at)swiftkenya.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander 680FL |
Thanks for your reply, Nico.
I will send you an up-to-date specification for the aircraft and some
pictures during the course of this next week after I get the latest specs
from the owner.
Alternatively, I will be coming to South Africa (I have an apartment at
Fourways) at the end of the month and I can give you a full history of the
aircraft at that time.
Kind regards
Robert J. Wilhelm
Reply to the contacts shown below
For Johannesburg RSA
Email:
Fax: 27-11-465-3700
Tel: 27-11- 465-3666
For Kenya
Email:
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 2:31 AM
Subject: Commander 680FL
Nico van Niekerk
Information has reached me that you may be in the market for a good Grand
Commander 680FL.
We have a very good machine that is currently available in our area. If you
are interested I would be happy to supply you with full specs and pricing.
Regards
Robert J. Wilhelm
Reply to the contacts shown below
For Johannesburg RSA
Email:
Fax: 27-11-465-3700
Tel: 27-11- 465-3666
For Kenya
Email: | Date: | Oct 21, 2001 |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Another Ozzie Commander back in the sky!! |
Gday all!
This weekend was a Commander memorable one here in Oz!
Commander 500A VH-IOE s/n 985-34 has once again flown in sunny spring
Melbourne weather to the applause of many locals at the airport. It is now
our very last airworthy 500A here in Oz!
VH-IOE has languished for the past 6 years at Melton Aerodrome (West of
Melbourne), Victoria and just South West of Melbourne International Airport
(Tullamarine), before receiving a nice restoration over the past year or so.
Melton has a grass strip and although now hemmed in by expanding residential
suburbs (the aerodrome has battled closure by anti- aircraft activists over
the past few years), still houses a number of general aviation aircraft. I
suppose it is just as well that these activists didnt have a 680E to
contend with!
Owner and long time Commander enthusiast Ray Reeve has been long associated
with 500A Commanders beginning with his first VH-EXW in the early 70s. Ray
has struggled with the finance side of flying Commanders and as a result
neither VH-EXW or VH-IOE have done little flying while in his ownership.
Unfortunately VH-EXW was grounded because of significant corrosion it
developed while parked against the fence at Essendon during the 70s and
80s (somehow you just have to keep the air flowing through the airframe).
Finally it was moved by road to Melton in the late 90s and has been parted
out to enable the restoration of VH-IOE. VH-EXW now resides as an absolute
wreck beside the hangar.
I was fortunate to clock up some time in VH-IOE when it was based in Darwin
back in the early 90s, and it is a real heart warmer to know that she is
back flying again!
My chilled glass of champers is raised to the ongoing prosperity of VH-IOE!
Please join me!
Cheers and chilled champers to all
Russell
Ps... There you go lil Crunk, get that old Commander close to you out of the
long grass and back in the air and Ill send a case of champagne all the
way!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ANOTHER NEW MEMBER |
Hi Blake,
I have most of the specs on that airplane. I looked at it before I bought my 560A.
-John
----- Original Message -----
From: blake hermel
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: ANOTHER NEW MEMBER
Hi everybody,
Wondering of anybody knew anything about the 520 for sale with Barron Thomas,it
sure has been there awhile,Barry?????? thanks for any input,
Blake Hermel
>From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: ANOTHER NEW MEMBER
>Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:45:55 EDT
>
>HI KIDS............
>
> Well, Sue and I have been talking about doing this since we
>first got married but today was the day. We added a new family member! She
>is a double yellow headed (??) amazon parrot named "Frazia." She is about 3
>years old and is already talking up a storm. I know Milt has a bird, an
>African Gray I think? Anyway, I hope she likes to fly!! What am I thinking,
>of course she likes to fly, DUH.
> Hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
JB,
What do LARGE lizards like to eat?
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Sir Barry,
The latest commander to show up at Atlanta Air Salvage is N711EA. The serial number
is 210.
I would have sent this info directly to you, but it seems that your address is
on one of my defunct hard drives.
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Crunk!
Thanks for this info. I had N711EA as currently around, with American Aircraft
Corp., of Norcross, Georgia, since September 1994. Is it now definitely being
parted out?
Also, I have just recalled receiving another email, some while ago now, from somebody
who saw a Commander in a scrapyard (in Georgia?) with a rather strange
dish- or dome-like structure on the roof. Could they get back in touch with me
again please, as I seem to have 'lost' the original! Anyone know the 'N' number
or serial number involved + exact location?
Thanks!
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Crunkleton
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 2:02 PM
Subject: N711EA
Sir Barry,
The latest commander to show up at Atlanta Air Salvage is N711EA. The serial
number is 210.
I would have sent this info directly to you, but it seems that your address is
on one of my defunct hard drives.
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Barry,
N711EA has it's wings and tail sawed off.
There is a 680F @ Berry Hill Airport near Atlanta that is beyond repair. (I can't
recall the N number) It has a large a/c air scoop on the top of it. Could that
be the one you refer to?
Crunk
P.S. I now have your address.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Parrots and Shirts |
JB,
Now YOU will have to get a shirt like Milt's. I understand they have a calming
effect on parrots!
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Crunk,
Thanks for the confirmation on N711EA.
Re the 'scoop' one, I'm now wondering if this was the scoop ordinarily found on
the 680F(P) and 680FLP for the pressurization system. It's located just about
at the same point on top of the fuselage as the wing's trailing edge.
From the email I received (was it from you?) some while ago, I somehow got the
impression it was more AWACS like?
If anybody goes to Berry Hill, could they find out the 'N' number for me?
Thanks!
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Crunkleton
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 3:10 PM
Subject: Salvage
Barry,
N711EA has it's wings and tail sawed off.
There is a 680F @ Berry Hill Airport near Atlanta that is beyond repair. (I can't
recall the N number) It has a large a/c air scoop on the top of it. Could
that be the one you refer to?
Crunk
P.S. I now have your address.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Ozzie Commander back in the sky!! |
CHEARS AND BEERS TO YOU AND THE 500A RUSSEL!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
Hey Sir Barry, It was I who spotted the the Commander with the strange
looking pod on the top. The airplane was sitting on the ramp at what I told
is a technical college for the training of A&P's in Greensboro North Carolina.
The airframe has bathtub nacelles, and the pod in top is teardrop shaped and
supported by 3 or 4 rigid rod type braces. If it is aux fuel then it's not
more than about 20 gallons tops, I wondered if maybe it was someones way of
mounting a radar dish.
It is quite strange looking, and absolutely unique to anything I have ever
seen in 25 years of airplane spotting.
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
I NEED A LITTLE GUIDANCE FROM THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE MORE FAMILIAR WITH
COMMANDERS THAN I.
I'VE ATTACHED A DESCRIPTION AND EQUIPMENT LIST OF MY 500A COLEMILL SUPER 300
SHRIKE CONVERSION.
I'D LIKE SOME GUESSES AS TO ITS VALUE. THINKING ABOUT PUTTING IT UP FOR
SALE.
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.
JIM FURLONG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/21/01 08:57:58 Pacific Daylight Time, Furlong5(at)aol.com
writes:
> I NEED A LITTLE GUIDANCE FROM THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE MORE FAMILIAR WITH
> COMMANDERS THAN I.
>
> I'VE ATTACHED A DESCRIPTION AND EQUIPMENT LIST OF MY 500A COLEMILL SUPER
>
Jim,
I can't help you with the valuation, but there is something I have to ask.
I hope I'm not whacking a hornets' nest, but what's the story with "LEFT AND
RIGHT ENGINES: 70 HRS SMOH - 7 HRS SINCE TEARDOWN AND IRAN BY PREMIER
AIRCRAFT ENGINESOF TROUTDALE, OREGON."
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Ozzie Commander back in the sky!! |
In a message dated 10/21/01 1:34:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au writes:
> My chilled glass of champers is raised to the ongoing prosperity of VH-IOE!
> Please join me!
>
> Cheers and chilled champers to all
>
WILL DO RUSSELL!!! I'll just use diet coke insread.. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/21/01 6:02:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
crunk12(at)bellsouth.net writes:
> What do LARGE lizards like to eat?
Double yellow headed amazon parrots I think?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bathtub Model pod |
Hi Paul,
OK - thanks. I'll try and find out what this strange addition was. Commanders
have many weird and wonderful items attached to them over the years, but this
one doesn't ring an immediate bell.
If anybody knows which Commander it is and can give me a lead, it'll sure save
a
lot of research.
Thanks Paul!
Kindest Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: <JETPAUL(at)aol.com>
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: N711EA
| Hey Sir Barry, It was I who spotted the the Commander with the strange
| looking pod on the top. The airplane was sitting on the ramp at what I told
| is a technical college for the training of A&P's in Greensboro North Carolina.
|
| The airframe has bathtub nacelles, and the pod in top is teardrop shaped and
| supported by 3 or 4 rigid rod type braces. If it is aux fuel then it's not
| more than about 20 gallons tops, I wondered if maybe it was someones way of
| mounting a radar dish.
|
| It is quite strange looking, and absolutely unique to anything I have ever
| seen in 25 years of airplane spotting.
|
| Paul Reason
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ANOTHER NEW MEMBER |
Hi Capt!
Ah! An "Amazona oratrix" if I'm not mistaken, and revered for their talking abilty.
Must be a not-too-distant relative of Elaine!!
They evidently enjoy chewing wood, so keep an eye on your furniture mate!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 4:45 AM
Subject: ANOTHER NEW MEMBER
HI KIDS............
Well, Sue and I have been talking about doing this since we first
got married but today was the day. We added a new family member! She is a double
yellow headed (??) amazon parrot named "Frazia." She is about 3 years old
and is already talking up a storm. I know Milt has a bird, an African Gray
I think? Anyway, I hope she likes to fly!! What am I thinking, of course she
likes to fly, DUH.
Hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ANOTHER NEW MEMBER |
In a message dated 10/21/01 11:26:26 Pacific Daylight Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
>
Keep it away from Chris' Bellanca as well.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Jim,
Sad to hear you're thinking of selling your airplane, but understandable after
what you've been through! I sincerely hope you replace her with another Commander!!!!
/John
PS: CAPT. JIMBOB--ANOTHER EXCEPTIONAL NEW LETTER! THANKS TO YOU AND ALL THE CONTRIBUTORS!
EXCELLENT WORK!
----- Original Message -----
From: Furlong5(at)aol.com
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 8:49 AM
I NEED A LITTLE GUIDANCE FROM THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE MORE FAMILIAR WITH COMMANDERS
THAN I.
I'VE ATTACHED A DESCRIPTION AND EQUIPMENT LIST OF MY 500A COLEMILL SUPER 300
SHRIKE CONVERSION.
I'D LIKE SOME GUESSES AS TO ITS VALUE. THINKING ABOUT PUTTING IT UP FOR SALE.
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.
JIM FURLONG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander jump planes..?? |
Randy,
Dont do it. My mate has a 560E that is used as a jump plane.It floggs the
engines and the area around the door is trashed, dented and scraped. It has a
roller door fitted. It was done by a company near Brisbane . I can check up
on STCs if required.
Regards,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander jump planes..?? |
In a message dated 10/21/01 2:30:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
RnJThompson(at)aol.com writes:
>
HEY RICHARD.............
What are they doing for propellers?? Remember I have an STC
that will eliminate the inspections. Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ANOTHER NEW MEMBER |
In a message dated 10/21/01 11:26:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
>
> They evidently enjoy chewing wood, so keep an eye on your furniture mate!
>
TO LATE!!!jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TECHNICAL QUESTION |
OK GUYS
WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN THE HYDRAULIC PRESSURE DOES NOT COME UP PRIOR TO START
WHILE PUMPING THE BRAKES BUT COMES UP TO NORMAL AFTER ENGINE START. THE BOOK
SAYS I SHOULD HAVE 500 LBS OF PRESSURE PRIOR TO START. I DIDN'T YESTERDAY OR
TODAY.
WHAT DOES THAT INDICATE??
HELP
JIM FURLONG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TECHNICAL QUESTION |
In a message dated 10/21/01 15:17:20 Pacific Daylight Time, Furlong5(at)aol.com
writes:
> WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN THE HYDRAULIC PRESSURE DOES NOT COME UP PRIOR TO
> START WHILE PUMPING THE BRAKES BUT COMES UP TO NORMAL AFTER ENGINE START.
> THE BOOK SAYS I SHOULD HAVE 500 LBS OF PRESSURE PRIOR TO START. I DIDN'T
> YESTERDAY OR TODAY.
>
> WHAT DOES THAT INDICATE??
>
Jim,
You have a 500A so that means your auxiliary electric hydraulic pump is not
working.
If it is, you should hear it (one reason to pump brakes prior to engine start
is to test this pressure switch and pump.)
If you do hear the aux pump whining but don't get pressure, you've a pump
motor spinning but doing nothing.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TECHNICAL QUESTION |
In a message dated 10/21/01 22:11:01 Pacific Daylight Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> You have a 500A so that means your auxiliary electric hydraulic pump is not
> working.
I forgot to mention: If you're bird has been in for maintenance, the aux
hydraulic circuit breaker may have been pulled.
Look at the bottom row; about 5th from the left and see if it's out.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS....................
Well, I knew it would start sooner or later. The good news is
it was later. We have had the most delightful fall in recent memory but it
has now rained for about 24hr straight, the weather report even included the
"S" word (BRRR). I just went to the airport and tipped the tail on poor old
triple 2. If it keeps this up I will need to install a bilge pump! Oh well,
that is why we don't need to worry about watering our lawn!
No flying today. I plan to head to SEA this week to move the biplane
to winter storage but that will require a few hours of VFR, none in sight.
Hope the sun is shinning on your Commander. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The Greensboro pod |
Hi all!
I think the A&P facility Paul Reason saw that strange-looking Commander at, in
Greensboro, NC is Guilford Technical Community College.
I have therefore just emailed their head of aviation to see if he can help. His
name was given me by the FBO at Greensboro, the very helpful Atlantic Aero.
Guilford Technical Community College appear to own a 560F, serial 1306-59,
N301T, but this isn't of course, a 'Bathtub' model. They've owned it since March
1985, having 'bought' it from State of North Carolina, Federal Property Agency,
Raleigh, who acquired it from US Customs Service after they obtained a Default
Judgment.
Let's hope I get a positive reply. I'm dying to know what that mysterious pod is
all about!
Fingers Crossed,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net> |
this is pretty good---need sound card + speakersGuys,
I don't know if any of you have seen this yet but If you have a sound card and
some speakers hooked up to your computer this thing is a lot of fun. Click on
the web site link below in the message I have forwarded to the group for a great
laugh!
John Williams
N519W
----- Original Message -----
From: John D. Williams Realtor
To: keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 5:48 PM
Subject: FW: Day-O
-----Original Message-----
From: Karen King [mailto:kaking(at)viaccess.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 9:56 AM
To: Jack & Carl; Frances Gunther; David Ashcraft; Carla & Robert; Ben Miele;
SJ & Kathryn; Scott Boldvich; Michael Boldvich; Tben; Mom
Cc: Michael P. Bissell; Kathy Bell
Subject: Day-O
this is historical ---need sound card + speakers
!
>
> > http://www.madblast.com/oska/humor_bin.swf
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Twin Commander in Puerto Rico |
Commanderland,
I was in Puerto Rico (KSJU) today. (Another adventure in flying on the
airlines, International style)
Across from the main terminal is a bunch of DC-3 and other Cessna type cargo
aircraft. There sat a long body Twin Commander, 680FL, missing engines. I
did not have time to get a tail number.
Sir Berry, would you know which one it might be???
There was another 500B that took off. It was good to see another one
flying. After two days of traveling on airlines with cancelled fights and
other miss adventures, I am going to ask the boss again for a Twin
Commander. He just spent 26 hours on the airlines when it would be about 10
hours in a Commander.
Mike Macosko, For what it is worth, I am a member of the More Power is
better club. I have learned that the method of getting long engine life
from 680s is to fly them like 560s. Only use 40 instead of 48 of MP
unless you really need it. I know JB works from a short strip. But if you
have 5,000 or more of runway, a little longer take off run would not hurt
any thing and make the engines last.
If you go to Hawaii, let me know. I know the FBOs over there and can help
on getting you a better fuel cost.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander in Puerto Rico |
In a message dated 10/22/01 18:28:31 Pacific Daylight Time, thall5(at)kc.rr.com
writes:
> Only use 40 instead of 48 of MP unless you really need it. I know JB
> works from a short strip. But if you have 5,000 or more of runway, a
> little longer take off run would not hurt any thing and make the engines
>
Well, I'm with you on the "more power is better" front, but I'm of the school
that says full throttle position (or that throttle position that gives you
max take off power) is also a fuel enrichening setting for increased cooling
during take off.
I've seen many geared, super-or-turbo charged engine operators use the
reduced power idea and went through cylinders like mad men.
Suburban Air, a fleet operator of IGSO-540s, had their crews use full power
for take off, but had them lean according to cylinder head temps and they did
fairly well, considering they never really did break-ins of replaced
cylinders as a private operator would.
I've always used full power on take off whether in the Midwest in winter, or
Pago Pago at mid day.
Proper fuel flow (that means proper Simmonds set up, if so equipped), cowl
flap use and climb airspeed has more impact on top end temperatures than
manifold pressure.
Tyler, you've got to get off the airlines! You poor guy! Would it help if
we start a petition?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander in Puerto Rico |
I'm interested in your comment on leaning for proper cylinder head temperature.
I am about to obtain a 680FL and I would like to clarify what I've read and heard
so far.
Is there not an automatic altitude compensater when the mixture levers are in the
full rich position ?
Manual specifies "full rich for climb out".
I assume this means for take-off power (2 min) or the altitude of your choice.
I've looked through the flight manual but I can't find reference to it other then
the "full rich" comment.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 18:49
Subject: Re: Twin Commander in Puerto Rico
In a message dated 10/22/01 18:28:31 Pacific Daylight Time, thall5(at)kc.rr.com
writes:
Only use 40 instead of 48 of MP unless you really need it. I know JB works
from a short strip. But if you have 5,000 or more of runway, a little longer
take off run would not hurt any thing and make the engines last.
Well, I'm with you on the "more power is better" front, but I'm of the school
that says full throttle position (or that throttle position that gives you max
take off power) is also a fuel enrichening setting for increased cooling during
take off.
I've seen many geared, super-or-turbo charged engine operators use the reduced
power idea and went through cylinders like mad men.
Suburban Air, a fleet operator of IGSO-540s, had their crews use full power for
take off, but had them lean according to cylinder head temps and they did fairly
well, considering they never really did break-ins of replaced cylinders
as a private operator would.
I've always used full power on take off whether in the Midwest in winter, or
Pago Pago at mid day.
Proper fuel flow (that means proper Simmonds set up, if so equipped), cowl flap
use and climb airspeed has more impact on top end temperatures than manifold
pressure.
Tyler, you've got to get off the airlines! You poor guy! Would it help if we
start a petition?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander in Puerto Rico |
In a message dated 10/22/01 6:28:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
thall5(at)kc.rr.com writes:
>
AMEN BROTHER.......
I only use 44" on most short strips. Tylor, there is a 680E
over there to. A guy contacted me about 6 weeks ago about a propeller STC.
We did the Fax back and fourth thing and then, nothing. He suddenly wont
return my calls. My guise is he just installed them and went on his way??
Have a great trip home. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander in Puerto Rico |
In a message dated 10/22/01 6:56:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
>
HI KEITH...
I agree that you need to get into the enrichment valve on TO,
but at least on the GSO-480, 44" will get that done so........ The Duke
drivers did a kinda scientific test and found that full throttle didn't hurt
a thing and strongly suggested using it every TO, of course in a Duke
anything less will result in a fast taxi to your destination!! :-) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | YET ANOTHER NEW MEMBER!! |
HI KIDS..........
I almost forgot why I came down here tonight. We have another
new TCFG member. Moe Mills from El Segundo CA flies a really pretty 680F(P).
I had the pleasure of meeting Moe at the Commander university in Scottsdale
last April. He owns Ross Racing Pistons and has operated the Commander for
many years. He is a true Gentleman and it is good to welcome him aboard!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Leaning the IGSO-540 |
In a message dated 10/22/01 19:51:32 Pacific Daylight Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
> I've looked through the flight manual but I can't find reference to it other
>
Tom,
On the IGSO-540 use full rich and 45-47" MAP for take off (if you subscribe
to that school of thought) and then reduce power to 40" MAP and 3000 RPM for
unlimited climb.
Most pilots of the geared Lycomings do this as their power setting after take
off.
You can set fuel flow for 75% power at that time; the Bendix fuel flow gauges
are marked in both pph and % of power; best power mixture. Yes, you do
manually set climb and cruise fuel flow on the IGSO-540s.
Cruise power is the ever popular 65%, and you can set fuel flow for that, or,
set fuel flow for 180 degrees cylinder head temperature -- or less.
Personally, I don't mind cylinder head temps nearer to 200 degrees in this
engine but Suburban Air used the 160 - 180 degree mark as a way to compensate
for the lack of lead in modern avgas.
As I've said many many times here, these early engines were designed around
fuel with a much higher lead content and valve guides, etc., depend on lead
for lubrication. So, although the IGSO-540 is very happy making power at
lean of peak, there are engine parts that may suffer from it. This was the
experience of Suburban Air Freight who ran a fleet of 680-FLs for at least 10
years.
On approach, you will have to return to full rich when you reduce power below
26 to 22" MAP, depending on how your Simmonds is set up. Other wise, you'll
be too lean and your 20-something manifold pressure will be mostly air with
little fuel to make power and you won't stay aloft as well as you expect!
To those listening in, I want to point out this discussion is for the
IGSO-540s with Simmonds fuel control units installed in the 680F series only,
NOT the AC-680E powered by the GSO-480, which has auto lean.
We have a few 680-F operators on this list and I'm sure they'll add their
preferences in fuel flows and power settings.
Ricardo? Anything to add from Venezuela?
Wing Commander Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leaning the IGSO-540 |
I'll weigh in, if you don't mind...
I fly my 680F with take off and cruise climb settings as you have described (except
that I pull back the props from 3400 to 3200 after rotation). I have experimented
with cruise settings at 180 to 200+ degrees and do not find fuel comsumption
much affected, so will probably go back to the cooler temps to make the
engines last longer. My Commander needs leaning for idle, so I do not move
the red levers to "full rich" below 25 inches, or the engines will load up on
roll out, but I do push them forward about half way between the "full rich"
position and the ident. They seem to be very happy with that setting.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 10:20 PM
Subject: Leaning the IGSO-540
In a message dated 10/22/01 19:51:32 Pacific Daylight Time, tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca
writes:
I've looked through the flight manual but I can't find reference to it other
then the "full rich" comment.
Tom,
On the IGSO-540 use full rich and 45-47" MAP for take off (if you subscribe to
that school of thought) and then reduce power to 40" MAP and 3000 RPM for unlimited
climb.
Most pilots of the geared Lycomings do this as their power setting after take
off.
You can set fuel flow for 75% power at that time; the Bendix fuel flow gauges
are marked in both pph and % of power; best power mixture. Yes, you do manually
set climb and cruise fuel flow on the IGSO-540s.
Cruise power is the ever popular 65%, and you can set fuel flow for that, or,
set fuel flow for 180 degrees cylinder head temperature -- or less. Personally,
I don't mind cylinder head temps nearer to 200 degrees in this engine but
Suburban Air used the 160 - 180 degree mark as a way to compensate for the lack
of lead in modern avgas.
As I've said many many times here, these early engines were designed around fuel
with a much higher lead content and valve guides, etc., depend on lead for
lubrication. So, although the IGSO-540 is very happy making power at lean of
peak, there are engine parts that may suffer from it. This was the experience
of Suburban Air Freight who ran a fleet of 680-FLs for at least 10 years.
On approach, you will have to return to full rich when you reduce power below
26 to 22" MAP, depending on how your Simmonds is set up. Other wise, you'll
be too lean and your 20-something manifold pressure will be mostly air with little
fuel to make power and you won't stay aloft as well as you expect!
To those listening in, I want to point out this discussion is for the IGSO-540s
with Simmonds fuel control units installed in the 680F series only, NOT the
AC-680E powered by the GSO-480, which has auto lean.
We have a few 680-F operators on this list and I'm sure they'll add their preferences
in fuel flows and power settings.
Ricardo? Anything to add from Venezuela?
Wing Commander Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ricardo A. Otaola <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
| Subject: | Re: Leaning the IGSO-540 |
Wing Commander:
All the power settings that you mention are exactly what I do. On the CHT issue,
I ussually stay at around 200-210 C (climb-cruise). This tempearture is
the result of the charts on the engine and ariplane. Since I am running in the
engines (25SMOH left, 50SMOH right) I am running at 75%. But I must say, that
when I had the 1110 hrs engine on, and started to use it at 75% instead of regular
65%, the engine performed MUCH better, better CHT, etc.
Right now my simmonds may be a little rich, so I am leaning out just as I throtle
back to 40MP, otherwise I will be going up at 150-170 CHT, and the engine
does not behave as smoothly.
Ricardo A. Otaola
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:20 AM
Subject: Leaning the IGSO-540
In a message dated 10/22/01 19:51:32 Pacific Daylight Time, tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca
writes:
I've looked through the flight manual but I can't find reference to it other
then the "full rich" comment.
Tom,
On the IGSO-540 use full rich and 45-47" MAP for take off (if you subscribe to
that school of thought) and then reduce power to 40" MAP and 3000 RPM for unlimited
climb.
Most pilots of the geared Lycomings do this as their power setting after take
off.
You can set fuel flow for 75% power at that time; the Bendix fuel flow gauges
are marked in both pph and % of power; best power mixture. Yes, you do manually
set climb and cruise fuel flow on the IGSO-540s.
Cruise power is the ever popular 65%, and you can set fuel flow for that, or,
set fuel flow for 180 degrees cylinder head temperature -- or less. Personally,
I don't mind cylinder head temps nearer to 200 degrees in this engine but
Suburban Air used the 160 - 180 degree mark as a way to compensate for the lack
of lead in modern avgas.
As I've said many many times here, these early engines were designed around fuel
with a much higher lead content and valve guides, etc., depend on lead for
lubrication. So, although the IGSO-540 is very happy making power at lean of
peak, there are engine parts that may suffer from it. This was the experience
of Suburban Air Freight who ran a fleet of 680-FLs for at least 10 years.
On approach, you will have to return to full rich when you reduce power below
26 to 22" MAP, depending on how your Simmonds is set up. Other wise, you'll
be too lean and your 20-something manifold pressure will be mostly air with little
fuel to make power and you won't stay aloft as well as you expect!
To those listening in, I want to point out this discussion is for the IGSO-540s
with Simmonds fuel control units installed in the 680F series only, NOT the
AC-680E powered by the GSO-480, which has auto lean.
We have a few 680-F operators on this list and I'm sure they'll add their preferences
in fuel flows and power settings.
Ricardo? Anything to add from Venezuela?
Wing Commander Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leaning the IGSO-540 |
In a message dated 10/23/01 06:34:19 Pacific Daylight Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> My Commander needs leaning for idle, so I do not move the red levers to
> "full rich" below 25 inches,
Randy, thanks for bringing that up!
The Simmonds is set up for a particular pressure altitude and temperature
range for idle.
Change to a warmer temperature and /or higher altitude and this ground idle
is now too rich. Manual leaning is required to keep the engine from surging
-- and tearing up your gear box.
Another aspect of the Simmonds fuel controler is that oil pressure is one of
the inputs. It is built to go FULL RICH with a drop in oil pressure. Thus,
with hot, thin oil, they'll flood and shut down on the roll out!
I've had to fly some that needed to be full rich below 24" MAP and then had
to be leaned on touchdown to keep from losing both engines after I went to
idle on the touch down! What a wild dance that is.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leaning the IGSO-540 |
In a message dated 10/23/01 06:40:38 Pacific Daylight Time,
otayca(at)telcel.net.ve writes:
> Right now my simmonds may be a little rich, so I am leaning out just as I
> throtle back to 40MP, otherwise I will be going up at 150-170 CHT, and the
>
Thanks for your input, Ricardo.
When I talk to pilots about leaning engines -- and especially the geared,
supercharged engines, I find lots of them want to keep them really cool to
extend their life.
Understandably. Heat is what limits how much power we can make; it's a
destructive force in the world of metal motors.
However! If you're not making heat, you're not making power. It's that
simple. As Ricardo points out, you really have to see higher temperatures to
make the airplane go -- and although I passed on Suburban Air's s.o.p. of
leaning by cylinder head temperatures, I hope nobody starts to run too rich.
All you'll do is wash the oil off the cylinder walls and end up replacing
jugs for that reason.
It's a balancing act, isn't it?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander in Puerto Rico |
Hi Tylor!
I cannot, of course, be certain about the Grand Commander you saw, as it could
be from anywhere in that area.
But, only one is registered in Puerto Rico:
1337-22, N78348, with Angel A Arias, Carolina (since August 84), and I have no
notes as too it's condition. I do rely a lot on 'spotters' reports for news on
derelict or abandoned examples, but have received no such reports from any one
visiting Puerto Rico.
Remember guys, any news on the status of any Commanders you see in your travels
is always welcome, and valuable info for the database.
Thanks!
Kindest Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: COMMANDERTECH@skymaster. c2-tech. com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:20 AM
Subject: Twin Commander in Puerto Rico
Commanderland,
I was in Puerto Rico (KSJU) today. (Another adventure in flying on the airlines,
International style)
Across from the main terminal is a bunch of DC-3 and other Cessna type cargo
aircraft. There sat a long body Twin Commander, 680FL, missing engines. I did
not have time to get a tail number.
Sir Berry, would you know which one it might be???
There was another 500B that took off. It was good to see another one flying.
After two days of traveling on airlines with cancelled fights and other miss
adventures, I am going to ask the boss again for a Twin Commander. He just spent
26 hours on the airlines when it would be about 10 hours in a Commander.
Mike Macosko, For what it is worth, I am a member of the "More Power is better
club". I have learned that the method of getting long engine life from 680's
is to fly them like 560's. Only use 40" instead of 48" of MP unless you really
need it. I know JB works from a short strip. But if you have 5,000' or
more of runway, a little longer take off run would not hurt any thing and make
the engines last.
If you go to Hawaii, let me know. I know the FBO's over there and can help on
getting you a better fuel cost.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron and Pat kabalin <pakrak(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | membership application |
Jim,
Please send a membership application. A friend of mine who ownes a 560E
want's to join.
Thanks.
Ron Kabalin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Hi Gang!
Just happened to be doing a bit of surfing and have found a picture of THAT
Commander at Greensboro!!
It turns out to be the 560F which Guilford Community Technical College
owns, N301T, serial 1306-59.
See it for yourselves on:
http://www.airliners.net
Scroll down the page until you reach "Photo Index"
Select "Aircraft Type", then hit "Go!"
Select "A" from the next screen
Select "Aero Commander 500/560/680 Commander" and click on "18 photos"
Then scroll down to bottom of first page which loads and click on "Next
Page"
Offending beastie is the second shot down. Click on the photo to enlarge
it.
All I've got to do now is find out what the pod is for!
I'll review the Form 337 data on the microfiche I've got to make sure I
haven't missed anything.
Yippee!!
Best Regards,
Barry
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY
If you are not the intended recipient or employee or agent responsible for
return. Any distribution or copying of this document by anyone other than
the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. Airclaims cannot be held
responsible for any alterations made to this document, intentionally or
Airclaims Limited, Registered Office: Cardinal Point, Newall Road, Heathrow
Airport, Hounslow, Middlesex, TW6 2AS. Company Registration No. 710284
England and Wales.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk wrote:
> Just happened to be doing a bit of surfing and have found a picture of THAT
> Commander at Greensboro!!
Good web site Barry - I'd never been there before..
My guess is that dome is some sort of DF antenna.
I'd still love to know the story on:
http://aerocommander.com/Tmp/israel%20-%20iai%20westwind%20with%20mig21%20nose.jpg
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WilliamPeper(at)cs.com <WilliamPeper(at)cs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who wants a commander? |
Oh, man, Nico . . . I'm sorry! I got involved in the Scouts last weekend and
completely slipped my mind. A senior moment at the tender age of 47, I guess!
Will forward ASAP
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WilliamPeper(at)cs.com <WilliamPeper(at)cs.com> |
| Subject: | Info on my Commander |
Here are the specs/ pictures attached.
I'm sorry for the delay!
Rockwell AeroCommander 500 S
N519WA Serial #3081
TTAF 2750 hrs.
New annual Aug. 2001
AD 94-04-14 (wing front spar cap inspection) done 7/00 -never any corrosion.
All other AD's complied with.
Xpnder/altimeter insp. done 7/19/00
Factory new left propeller/ Overhauled Rt. prop 7/96 (Bynum,Ft.Worth TX)
Cleveland dual caliper brakes installed 1998
Flap gap seals installed 1998
Original "Esquire" brown leather interior. Overall, 8/10 shape
(some
minor cracking in the pilot and copilots' seats, but pax near-perfect.)
Window glass in excellent shape. Replaced approx. 3 years.
Right engine 1325SMOH
#1 74/80 #2 76/80 #3 73/80 #4 72/80 #5 76/80 #6 74/80
Left engine 1325 SMOH
#1 76/80 #2 76/80 #3 74/80 #4 72/80 #5 74/80 #6 72/80
4-color paint done Sept. 1997 . . . still 9/10 (hangared!).
Equipment List:
KMA 24 Audio Panel
King KX 155 Nav/Comm
King KX 165 Nav/Comm
KR 87 ADF
KI-204 Nav Indicator (RMI)
DRE Symphony 6-place stereo intercom/ DRE Intercom panelunit
Graphic Engine Monitor 1200-01
Century III autopilot
Strikefinder lightning detection
King Transponder (alt. encoding)
Terra Digital TRI-40 Radar Altimeter
Turn & bank indicator (copilot)
NorthStar M1 Loran
KN 64 DME unit
Gyro slaving amplifier
Omni Convertor C28-5
Whelen 3-point "burst" strobe system
NSD (Century) 360 HSI (newly overhauled)
KLN -89B GPS receiver (IFR enroute & approach cert.)
MD41-528 Nav source selector
Sony KDC-7003 CD player/AM-FM stereo
Turn coordinator (pilot)
Pilot & copilot altimeter, VSI, AI, airspeed.
Argus 7000 Moving Map
Glideslope splitter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Chris,
Was that Jet Commander spotted at Tucson? I think I've seen that airplane in
person...or who knows, maybe just another picture.
That front end looks suspiciously like an old MiG. It's even red. Espionage
anyone?
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: The Pod!
>
>
> Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk wrote:
> > Just happened to be doing a bit of surfing and have found a picture of
THAT
> > Commander at Greensboro!!
>
> Good web site Barry - I'd never been there before..
> My guess is that dome is some sort of DF antenna.
>
> I'd still love to know the story on:
>
http://aerocommander.com/Tmp/israel%20-%20iai%20westwind%20with%20mig21%20no
se.jpg
>
> chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WilliamPeper(at)cs.com <WilliamPeper(at)cs.com> |
In a message dated 10/19/01 1:58:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> I'm a new Commander aficionado looking to purchase a 500B for personal
> use.
>
Hey, Larry
Are you set on a 500B? Let me know if your interest also includes the
Shrike. Mine's for sale, and it's a nice one.
Bill Peper N519WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
John Vormbaum wrote:
> Was that Jet Commander spotted at Tucson? I think I've seen that airplane in
> person...or who knows, maybe just another picture.
>
> That front end looks suspiciously like an old MiG. It's even red. Espionage
> anyone?
That pic was emailed to me a long time ago without an explaination.
I'm pretty sure that is a MiG nose, but who knows what the rest of
the story is...
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The MiG-nosed Jet Commander |
Hi Gang!
Jet Commanders don't fall into my sphere of operation, but I've asked the
Air-Britain Information Exchange email forum if anyone knows the story behind
that aircraft.
Will obviously get back to you just as soon as somebody posts an answer.
Somebody will, and it'll no doubt include the colour of the pilot's socks who
flew it into wherever the photo was taken!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: The Pod!
|
|
| Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk wrote:
| > Just happened to be doing a bit of surfing and have found a picture of THAT
| > Commander at Greensboro!!
|
| Good web site Barry - I'd never been there before..
| My guess is that dome is some sort of DF antenna.
|
| I'd still love to know the story on:
|
http://aerocommander.com/Tmp/israel%20-%20iai%20westwind%20with%20mig21%20nose.j
pg
|
| chris
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
YEP Sir Barry!!!!
That's the one all right!!!!
Can I be forgiven for not remembering flat nacelles????
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Paul,
No, you cannot be forgiven (but, I'm only joking!!).
Glad we found which Commander it was. Now, I've only got to found out what it's
all about.
No reply from Guildford College, but have the microfiche of the FAA Forms 337 to
review. Will keep you posted.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <JETPAUL(at)aol.com>
To: ;
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: The Pod!
| YEP Sir Barry!!!!
|
| That's the one all right!!!!
|
| Can I be forgiven for not remembering flat nacelles????
|
| Paul Reason
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
The Pod thickens ...
I find it interesting that the pod is painted with the same colour scheme as
the rest of the aeroplane.
Would not expect that with some kind of experimental or form 337 addition.
This is one of the better mysteries, next to the Jet Commander with the Mig
nose.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 500B Questions |
Larry Wokral,
So you want a Twin Commander to leap tall building and mountains. You need
Turbo's. Mr. RPM has the turbo kit for 500's. It should be flying sometime
next month. We can also upgrade the older RayJay turbo system with new
exhaust system, wastegate valve (that was their weak point) and new
intercooler and oil cooler. Once it is flying, we will be able to have
exact figures. You should be able to get similar speeds or better that you
are use to with more people and fuel on board. There are several people
that have the older RayJay system on their 500's on this chat list.
The next alternative is the 680 series with the super charged engines. MR.
RPM has the IO-720 conversions with turbos for the 500's and the 680
F/FP/FL/FLP. There are several of those for sale.
N400CH is a 680FLP with the Mr. RPM conversion that is for sale. The owner
just told me he flies it at 26"MP and 2200RPM and get about 200 KTS at
12,000'. This is an 8500 Gross weight aircraft.
http://www.downtownairpark.com/acsales/salesfs.htm
Welcome to the "More Power is better club".
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com [mailto:chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com]
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 3:51 PM
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: 500B Questions
Okay, I know there are a few of you 500B guys who can help this
new chatlist member out. Go ahead and respond here - he's online
now.
Chris
-----------FWD----------------------
I'm a new Commander aficionado looking to purchase a 500B for personal
use.
I'm sure this group has seen these questions before, but here goes: If I
purchase a normally aspirated 500B, can the Rayjays be added and at what
cost? How long until the intercooled turbonormalizing system I've heard
about is available, and what is it expected to cost? How often are
owners
actually flying up high with their normally aspirated models? How does
the
bird handle near its service ceiling, and what kinds of TAS are they
seeing
there?
I presently have a tubonormalized Cardinal RG, and I do often fly in the
flight levels (23K' and below still at 75% power and about 175 to 180
knots
TAS) to stay on top of weather. While I very much like the Commander's
extra
seats, greater useful load, and safety redundancy over my present
Cardinal,
going back to a normal aspirated plane is a concern - spoiled I guess.
Any observations would be appreciated.
Larry Wokral
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 500B Questions |
In a message dated 10/24/01 3:33:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
tylorh(at)sound.net writes:
>
Or the "he who burns the most gas wins" club!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ITS A GAS TAAANK |
HI KIDS...........
After a careful (10 second) study of the "pod," I have
determined that it is a fuel tank. It is located directly above the center
tank and can gravity fuel into the system??? Looks like it was removed from
an old "Tuna tank" cessna 310. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ITS A GAS TAAANK |
I still prefer to think of it as a "space pod" with top-secret alien-in-origin
magical abilities.
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 9:19 PM
Subject: ITS A GAS TAAANK
HI KIDS...........
After a careful (10 second) study of the "pod," I have determined
that it is a fuel tank. It is located directly above the center tank and can
gravity fuel into the system??? Looks like it was removed from an old "Tuna
tank" cessna 310. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | The Pod & the Nose Mod |
Hi!
The Pod
I have reviewed the Forms 337 for N301T and there is nothing related to
that pod atop the fuselage.
1306-59 did have some Experimental Certificates of Airworthiness, in June
and December 1974 (To Show Compliance with FAR), but these appear to be
related to testing of the Collins AP-107 Autopilot, as STC SA1080CE was
quoted as being incorporated when it returned to a Normal category CofA in
January 1975, after clocking up nearly 50 hours flying since the orginal
Experimental CofA.
1306-59 was owned from new in July 1963 by Ling-Temco-Vought Inc., in
Dallas, being passed to LTV Electrosystems Inc., of Greenville, Texas in
January 1965. It was sold in May 1968. It has subsequently passed through a
number of hands since then, mostly individuals. I cannot imagine that some
electronic device fitted by L-T-V., or even it's housing, would have
remained on the aircraft, so it must surely be a later addition.
The guy I emailed at Guilford Community Technical College hasn't come back
to me yet. I'll give him another week, then I'll nip over and sort him out!
Nose Mod
I've got some info on the Jet Commander with the weird nose. Registration,
4X-COA, is Israeli.
Story is that in the late 60's or early 70's, a MiG21 defected to Israel
from either Syria or Egpyt. Israeli Aircraft Industries had already, of
course bought the Jet Commander production rights from North American
Rockwell. Through their Bedek/Lahav division, they used the Commander to
evaluate the Russian radar, then to improve it. The photo was taken at the
Israeli Air Force museum at Hatzerin.
You may all be interested to know that behind the E-2 Hawkeye in the
background, is a Grumman Bearcat which, in anticipation of a visit to the
museum by George Bush, was painted-up to represent the Bearcat he flew
during WWII. But, he never made it to the museum!
These details were instantly recalled by one of my colleagues. He must be
encouraged....................to get out more!!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY
If you are not the intended recipient or employee or agent responsible for
return. Any distribution or copying of this document by anyone other than
the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. Airclaims cannot be held
responsible for any alterations made to this document, intentionally or
Airclaims Limited, Registered Office: Cardinal Point, Newall Road, Heathrow
Airport, Hounslow, Middlesex, TW6 2AS. Company Registration No. 710284
England and Wales.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Pod & the Nose Mod |
In a message dated 10/25/01 6:31:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk writes:
> Bearcat he flew
>
GEORGE BUSH actually flew a Grumman TBM torpedo bomber, but they were close!!
I still say it's a gas tank (sorry John)
Flew triple 2 for a few minutes as per Russell legg's instructions
(keep air moving through these airplanes) Went to a great little airport
Evergreen. It is the oldiest (but not for long) private airport in the
country. It was just recently sold (by the kids of course) to developers.
It is smack in the middle of town, you can walk across the street and have a
McDonnell's burger. 2300 X 25 with a 2000 foot grass parallel. The had a
huge biplane flyin there for the past 50 years or so. The owner had a Jenny
that he flew there for years as well, it is now in a museum. By the way, any
of you "high rollers" want a Jenny?? A real, 1918 flyable Jenny?? I have a
friend with one for sale
I am on my way to SEA today to move the Sea-Cat, I hope the weather
holds. Freyja the parrot is talking up a storm, I am teaching her to whistle
"off we go" Not much luck yet. Hope all is well in Commanderland....... jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: The Pod & the Nose Mod |
Hi Capt!
Of course, you're right. And, you're the first one to pass the test, having
given some a two or three hour start !!!
It was indeed a Grumman TBM Avenger which George Bush flew.
My colleague has been given additional work and told to brush up on his
aircraft knowledge. Luckily, we don't track such aircraft types on our
database, or goodness only knows what he'd input there !!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
YOURTCFG(at)aol.c
om To: Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk,
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
25/10/2001 cc: barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
16:40 Subject: Re: The Pod & the Nose Mod
In a message dated 10/25/01 6:31:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk writes:
Bearcat he flew
during WWII. But, he never made it to the museum!
GEORGE BUSH actually flew a Grumman TBM torpedo bomber, but they were
close!! I still say it's a gas tank (sorry John)
Flew triple 2 for a few minutes as per Russell legg's instructions
(keep air moving through these airplanes) Went to a great little airport
Evergreen. It is the oldiest (but not for long) private airport in the
country. It was just recently sold (by the kids of course) to developers.
It is smack in the middle of town, you can walk across the street and have
a McDonnell's burger. 2300 X 25 with a 2000 foot grass parallel. The had
a huge biplane flyin there for the past 50 years or so. The owner had a
Jenny that he flew there for years as well, it is now in a museum. By the
way, any of you "high rollers" want a Jenny?? A real, 1918 flyable Jenny??
I have a friend with one for sale
I am on my way to SEA today to move the Sea-Cat, I hope the weather
holds. Freyja the parrot is talking up a storm, I am teaching her to
whistle "off we go" Not much luck yet. Hope all is well in
Commanderland....... jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Aero Commanders in Africa |
Re: We're comin'!I was on business in South Africa last week and, inspired by other
members who went hunting for forgotten ships, I decided to look what happened
to the 37 registered Commanders in that country. There was very little time
to do much and on this trip I could find only a few. The one attached to this
email was a particularly heart-breaking case. Can we save this machine? I will
be going back there within a couple of weeks, so a real difference can be
made if we collectively pool our skills. We can talk about money later. First,
in my opinion, would be to see if the team could assess the feasibility of reviving
her. What would she be worth in this condition and what would it cost to
rebuild, ignoring engines for the moment because we can always add Mr. RPM engines
to the budget lateron.
I am tracking down the owner and will negotiate a price.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Commanders in Africa |
Nico,
I know where there are several engines and props to be had for good prices.
Engines range from 0-SMOH to 1300 hours. You may want to find out where the
old engines went just to get the parts like gear boxes, cranks, cams, and
other hard to get parts for the GSIO-540s.
You need to find out when she last flew. If she has been sitting for 10
plus years, you are going to need fuel bladders, new hoses, fuel lines, fuel
sump inspection, fuel pumps, and any thing from fuel tanks to the engines
looked at or replaced.
The landing gear may need to be rebuilt with new o-rings and new hydraulic
lines. Any thing rubber may need to be replaced. Tires??? Check the
rudder for wind damage to the rudder horn and the torque tube like was
discussed in the last TCFG newsletter.
Next is fixing the panel with new or rebuilt instruments, radio switch
panel, lights, and all the rest. You will have to figure out what was in
each hole and fill it with something.
You cannot pay too much for the airframe since it has been robbed of so
much. I would offer $1.00 US and take it off his hands and go from there.
I would guess that it would take over $100,000 to get it back into the air.
We are talking 2000 to 3000 man-hours of time. It would not all have to
happen at once.
What support services are available there?? Jacks, hangars, parts, what
would you have to bring into country VS what is available there and at what
price??
This is confidential and not public. I am working on an order for 8-680FLs
for South Africa with the MR. RPM conversion. They want more. Have you
ever heard of Pelican Air in South Africa?
This could be a very interesting project. Call me.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Pentagon Seeks a Few Good Ideas to Fight Terrorism |
Thursday October 25 11:52 AM ET
Pentagon Seeks a Few Good Ideas to Fight Terrorism
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon appealed to Americans on Thursday to send
in bright ideas on thwarting terrorism, announcing an unusual, open
competition to speed the winners into use.
The Defense Department said it was looking for help in ''defeating difficult
targets, conducting protracted operations in remote areas and developing
countermeasures to weapons of mass destruction.
''The goal was to find concepts that can be developed and fielded in 12 to 18
months, a blink of an eye compared with standard Pentagon acquisition and
deployment procedures.
U.S. officials from President Bush down have said they fear more terrorist
attacks after the Sept. 11 hijack attacks that killed more than 5,000 people
at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and on a crashed flight in
Pennsylvania.
Laying out a streamlined three-step application process, the Pentagon called
for one-page idea descriptions by Dec. 23. Those retained will be asked to
provide up to 12 pages of details.
The department then will invite those with the most promising ideas to submit
full proposals in a third phase ``that may form the basis for a contract,'' a
statement said.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commanders in Africa |
Nico,
It is more like $3.5MM. He is also talking about some turbo props as well.
He said that they could finance this internally. We want to find out if
this company is real or just pulling our chain. Is there anywhere we can
find anything about the company? I was not able to find anything on the
web.
We are trying to get him to put all the money up front in an account here
in the US. We would then draw against it as we go. All cash deal.
Sounds like you can bring something to the table. The problem of using
aircraft over there is that the engines and everything else is here. Unless
we fly a new one over and fly one back. That would be an interesting trip.
Doing something in country would take someone going over there and spending
a lot of time rebuilding them there. Can we get skilled labor there and at
what price?
My son is in Cameroon with the Peace Corps. He is outside of Garoua.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Nico van Niekerk [mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 8:20 PM
To: Tylor Hall
Subject: Re: Commanders in Africa
Confidential it will remain.
Is that the crowd that flies safari guests from Johannesburg to Vilanculos
in Mozambique? I didn't think that they had the balls to go for a (my guess)
$2.5 million+ order. Oh, well, it is their business; as long as they pay,
no?
Perhaps it would be worth your while to look at existing FL's in South
Africa as platforms for a rebuild. There could be great deals because high
fuel and maintenance costs made these ships very unpopular, except for
operators that can haul a lot of paying customers, of course.
Perhaps I can bring some value to the table in this project. I know the
country and aviation scene very well.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:thall5(at)kc.rr.com>
To: Nico van Niekerk
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 2:50 PM
Subject: Commanders in Africa
Nico,
I know where there are several engines and props to be had for good prices.
Engines range from 0-SMOH to 1300 hours. You may want to find out where the
old engines went just to get the parts like gear boxes, cranks, cams, and
other hard to get parts for the GSIO-540s.
You need to find out when she last flew. If she has been sitting for 10
plus years, you are going to need fuel bladders, new hoses, fuel lines, fuel
sump inspection, fuel pumps, and any thing from fuel tanks to the engines
looked at or replaced.
The landing gear may need to be rebuilt with new o-rings and new hydraulic
lines. Any thing rubber may need to be replaced. Tires??? Check the
rudder for wind damage to the rudder horn and the torque tube like was
discussed in the last TCFG newsletter.
Next is fixing the panel with new or rebuilt instruments, radio switch
panel, lights, and all the rest. You will have to figure out what was in
each hole and fill it with something.
You cannot pay too much for the airframe since it has been robbed of so
much. I would offer $1.00 US and take it off his hands and go from there.
I would guess that it would take over $100,000 to get it back into the air.
We are talking 2000 to 3000 man-hours of time. It would not all have to
happen at once.
What support services are available there?? Jacks, hangars, parts, what
would you have to bring into country VS what is available there and at what
price??
This is confidential and not public. I am working on an order for 8-680FLs
for South Africa with the MR. RPM conversion. They want more. Have you
ever heard of Pelican Air in South Africa?
This could be a very interesting project. Call me.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (2) |
Re: We're comin'!This 680F was used as a camera platform and has lost its fuel
pumps. Apparently it has mid-life engines, low-time props and gearboxes. The owner
wants about $35K for it. (It still has an owner's manual!!)
I haven't had time to look at the logbooks. Will do so when I go back.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: Aero Commanders in Africa
I was on business in South Africa last week and, inspired by other members who
went hunting for forgotten ships, I decided to look what happened to the 37
registered Commanders in that country. There was very little time to do much and
on this trip I could find only a few. The one attached to this email was a
particularly heart-breaking case. Can we save this machine? I will be going back
there within a couple of weeks, so a real difference can be made if we collectively
pool our skills. We can talk about money later. First, in my opinion,
would be to see if the team could assess the feasibility of reviving her. What
would she be worth in this condition and what would it cost to rebuild, ignoring
engines for the moment because we can always add Mr. RPM engines to the budget
lateron.
I am tracking down the owner and will negotiate a price.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Josh Garfield <JGarfie1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa |
Re: We're comin'!What is the norm for getting old ships like this home.
Do you take the wings and tail off put the whole thing in a box and ship it? Or
do you stick it inside one of those big Russian or US cargo planes?
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 3:42 PM
Subject: Aero Commanders in Africa
I was on business in South Africa last week and, inspired by other members who
went hunting for forgotten ships, I decided to look what happened to the 37
registered Commanders in that country. There was very little time to do much and
on this trip I could find only a few. The one attached to this email was a
particularly heart-breaking case. Can we save this machine? I will be going back
there within a couple of weeks, so a real difference can be made if we collectively
pool our skills. We can talk about money later. First, in my opinion,
would be to see if the team could assess the feasibility of reviving her. What
would she be worth in this condition and what would it cost to rebuild, ignoring
engines for the moment because we can always add Mr. RPM engines to the budget
lateron.
I am tracking down the owner and will negotiate a price.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Family's demands stall MLK memorial |
It's a long story, but my brother-in-law, Robert, lives in Atlanta. This
Southern town has long
been known as a haven for "political correctness", so to speak, and
"minority" sympathies, to say the least. Let it be understood that I love
the South, having been born and raised there. But, that said, I also know
its limitations.
Robert, in his past career, had to deal with quite a few unions in his job as
a Director of Cargo Operations for ATL (Hartsfield ITL Airport). As such, he
was constantly under fire for "racist" dealings. Being the fair and
progressive person that he is, he kept a bust of MLK behind his desk. Let me
also say that although I was not present in any of the "confrontations" that
came to past, I truly believe he did not - under any circumstances, trample
on ANY ONE's civil rights. However, we all know that suits are brought for
"no good reason". I'll leave it there, and take personal satisfaction in the
following...
Representatives seeking fee to use name, image in marketing campaign
10/25/2001 Associated Press
WASHINGTON Efforts to build a national memorial honoring the Rev. Martin
Luther King Jr. have stalled because the civil rights leader's family wants
money to use his name and likeness in the marketing campaign.
"They're asking for something in regards to a licensing fee," said Harry
Johnson, president of the memorial foundation. "We're just trying to walk a
fine, thin line."
Last week, Mr. Johnson called family representatives to ask about a dollar
figure, but he says they haven't returned his call. Officials at the
Atlanta-based King Center for Nonviolent Social Change couldn't be reached
for comment.
Congress approved a King memorial in 1998 and set aside land on the National
Mall, which is home to memorials for Franklin D. Roosevelt and Vietnam and
Korean War veterans and will soon be the site of a World War II memorial.
Congress authorized King's fraternity, Alpha Phi Alpha, to lead the project
and gave it until November 2003 to raise $100 million and break ground.
Mr. Johnson, who is president of the fraternity, is confident the deadline
will be met, though the licensing fee dispute apparently has hampered fund
raising.
General Motors Corp. contributed $750,000 and had suggested a much larger
donation would follow. GM spokesman Bill Noack says those plans now are on
hold.
"There have been internal discussions of a larger gift, but there has been no
commitment," Mr. Noack said. "The King family will obviously need to embrace
this project for it to go forward."
King's family is fiercely protective of his name but also has been criticized
for commercializing it.
The family received an undisclosed fee from French telecommunications giant
Alcatel, which used King's image for a television ad. Cingular Wireless also
paid to use part of the "I Have a Dream" speech in advertising.
The memorial as designed features walls, trees, and a stone structure that
will include King's profile and his "promissory note" passage, which calls
for freedom and fairness for black Americans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maytag <dmaytag(at)commspeed.net> |
Gents,
I am trying to learn about the straps that are found on at least the 560F, 680F
and FL, (and probably other models) that can be seen sticking out about 4 or
5 inches from the fuselage on the main spar. Was that an AD or SB? I have searched
the FAA AD list and found nothing and my Twin Commander Service Bulletin
book doesn't seem to have anything either. I have heard that was an AD but
maybe it was done at the factory?
Can't wait to learn more.
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa |
> Gday Nico,
>
> Many thanks for sharing your research with us.
> You are perfectly correct... seeing a grand old 680FLP in such a forlorn
> condition is particularly heart-breaking.
> So, what can we do about saving ZS-JWE?
>
> First step...READ and re-read Chris Schuermanns excellent article, on the web
> site, on why you should think twice before accepting the offer of becoming the
> owner of a free but out of service Commander.
>
> My experience here in Oz...
>
> Unfortunately I dont have an Aeronautical Engineering ticket so there is
> little work I can do other than paint strip, clean and pull apart. I have to
> rely on the goodwill of time-pressed friends for the more substantial kind of
> help or simply pay commercial rates for the work.
>
> Two years ago I was faced with a similar dilemma here in Australia. VH-DCE a
> sister ship 680FLP to your ZS-JWE and with an equally retrousse nose, became
> available at auction in Brisbane.
> Fifteen years before, I clocked up a host of hours on DCE and so now I became
> passionate about maybe getting it back in the air. Unfortunately DCE had been
> removed by road from an airport to an instructional warehouse and in doing so
> had its wings surgically sawn off outboard of the nacelles and then
> cosmetically re-attached.
>
> How do you rebuild wings that have undergone this treatment?
>
> My mate Richard Thompson has recently very successfully pulled and re-attached
> a 680E Commander wing, so our team here has the knowledge to at least get JWE
> packed into a shipping container with little substantial damage.
>
> So what were my costings (comments please from all) based on my experience
> with VH-DCE and prices here in Oz (US$)?:
>
> 1. Initial purchase... depending on maintenance history/log-book availability
> (very strict scrutinies from the authorities make paperwork an expensive
> necessary asset in achieving airworthiness in Oz) and spares holdings, a basic
> purchase of the airframe might line up with the scrap value of the
> airframe...probably $3k to $4k. As a favour to a frustrated airport management
> you could agree to remove it for free from their facility.
>
> Without a well established paper trail of available airframe and systems
> maintenance history etc you could maybe add an extra $5k to $10k.
>
> Looks like with JWE you have a sound fuselage, but is that early corrosion
> setting in along the external panel join line just below the cheatline that I
> can see on your nose-on photograph?
>
> As Captain jimbob so rightly maintains with 222JS...weekly airflow through the
> airframe makes so much difference and is the absolute antithesis of corrosion.
>
> But ultimately the unique problems with getting a 680FLP back in the air is
> working your way through the systems...pressurisation, air, hydraulics,
> auto-pilot, radar etc and those engines.
>
> 2. Rescuing the airframe... Finding an appropriate source of spares and
> appropriately skilled restorative engineers in South Africa is probably going
> to be difficult and expensive. So dismantling and shipping JWE, as seen in
> your photos, to an appropriate maintenance facility in the US is going to
> probably cost you $10k to $15k. I imagine that the location of JWE (Jo-burg?)
> is close to the availability of an appropriate crane and shipping container
> transport?
>
> 3. Airframe restoration...paint strip and anti-corrosion treatment and
> repaint is going to cost you somewhere around $12K to $15K. Maybe new windows
> all around...$5K to $7K, although Richard Thompson has a most cost effective
> alternative. Maybe significant wheel well corrosion...? Interior... $5 to
> $10K. Cockpit...who knows!!!!! Fuel tank replacement and rewiring and plumbing
> may be necessary... perhaps $20K. Wheels/tires and brakes around $5K.
>
> 4. Systems restoration... pressurisation, hydraulics, electrics will all
> probably need major rework...perhaps $20K.
>
> 5. Engines...Tylor Hall has some great options emerging around Mr R.P.M.
> engines, but you would need to allow at least probably $35K to $40K per side.
>
> 6. In total you maybe could expect to outlay somewhere around the $200K to
> $250K mark.
>
> The challenge is to establish and maintain a market for aircraft of such ilk
> and price. There is no market in Australia at present but there maybe in the
> US...?? Further, as a team how can we radically reduce the costs that I have
> listed above...can we do it??
>
> 1999 Outcome here in Oz around VH-DCE
>
> In the end, I accepted that the restoration of DCE was beyond my immediate
> rational means and subsequently DCE was auctioned to a used car dealer for
> $7500 and is now displayed in his car yard as a sales gimmick remaining
> grounded.
>
> The 560F that you reviewed probably represents much better value at $35K in
> its very nearly complete condition. The panel seems very limited with many
> instruments out of service and pasted over.
>
>
> Hopefully many of our Commanderland team are in a position to add to the
> above. We cannot stand by and continue to watch the fleet slowly dwindle and
> reduce in number!
>
> And now to use a Sir Barry term...I really must get out for some air...
>
> Cheers and beers as always
>
> Russell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Commanders in Africa |
Nico,
I think our first step is to find out who Pelican Air is? Are they a real
company and how big are they? Everything else at this time is a waste. Are
they able to afford a new fleet of aircraft hauling freight and
passengers???
If they are For Real, I will include this order in a larger business plan
to raise money. This would be a part of our larger business plan. I do not
want to talk this up with investors if it has no chance of happening.
I would like to get a list of officers and titles. List of pilots and
mechanics would be helpful.
On the 680F you found, there is a 680F in TN that has been in Trade-a-plane
forever that they are asking $35,000 for.
Are you aware that Lycoming says that an engine that has 12 years since
major need overhaul? Regardless of total time.
When you said it had a fuel pump problem, did you mean the Simmons fuel
controller?? This unit is also subject to failure due to time because of
the rubber inside of it. Central Cylinder can fix them.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa |
Re: Aero Commanders in AfricaAnd the patient's prognosis grows dimmer. It would
be more of an emotional thing than practical. To throw $300 G's into it would
really make my marriage suffer. Small women can make huge dents.
Alas, I knew him well. Poor JWE.
Thanks for the feedback Russell.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Legg
To: Nico van Niekerk ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa
G'day Nico,
Many thanks for sharing your research with us.
You are perfectly correct... seeing a grand old 680FLP in such a forlorn condition
is particularly heart-breaking.
So, what can we do about saving ZS-JWE?
First step...READ and re-read Chris Schuermann's excellent article, on the
web site, on why you should think twice before accepting the offer of becoming
the owner of a free but out of service Commander.
My experience here in Oz...
Unfortunately I don't have an Aeronautical Engineering ticket so there is little
work I can do other than paint strip, clean and pull apart. I have to rely
on the goodwill of time-pressed friends for the more substantial kind of help
or simply pay commercial rates for the work.
Two years ago I was faced with a similar dilemma here in Australia. VH-DCE
a sister ship 680FLP to your ZS-JWE and with an equally retrousse nose, became
available at auction in Brisbane.
Fifteen years before, I clocked up a host of hours on DCE and so now I became
passionate about maybe getting it back in the air. Unfortunately DCE had been
removed by road from an airport to an instructional warehouse and in doing
so had its wings surgically sawn off outboard of the nacelles and then cosmetically
re-attached.
How do you rebuild wings that have undergone this treatment?
My mate Richard Thompson has recently very successfully pulled and re-attached
a 680E Commander wing, so our team here has the knowledge to at least get
JWE packed into a shipping container with little substantial damage.
So what were my costings (comments please from all) based on my experience
with VH-DCE and prices here in Oz (US$)?:
1. Initial purchase... depending on maintenance history/log-book availability
(very strict scrutinies from the authorities make paperwork an expensive necessary
asset in achieving airworthiness in Oz) and spares holdings, a basic
purchase of the airframe might line up with the scrap value of the airframe...probably
$3k to $4k. As a favour to a frustrated airport management you could
agree to remove it for free from their facility.
Without a well established paper trail of available airframe and systems maintenance
history etc you could maybe add an extra $5k to $10k.
Looks like with JWE you have a sound fuselage, but is that early corrosion
setting in along the external panel join line just below the cheatline that I
can see on your 'nose-on' photograph?
As Captain jimbob so rightly maintains with 222JS...weekly airflow through
the airframe makes so much difference and is the absolute antithesis of corrosion.
But ultimately the unique problems with getting a 680FLP back in the air is
working your way through the systems...pressurisation, air, hydraulics, auto-pilot,
radar etc and those engines.
2. Rescuing the airframe... Finding an appropriate source of spares and appropriately
skilled restorative engineers in South Africa is probably going to
be difficult and expensive. So dismantling and shipping JWE, as seen in your
photos, to an appropriate maintenance facility in the US is going to probably
cost you $10k to $15k. I imagine that the location of JWE (Jo-burg?) is close
to the availability of an appropriate crane and shipping container transport?
3. Airframe restoration...paint strip and anti-corrosion treatment and repaint
is going to cost you somewhere around $12K to $15K. Maybe new windows all
around...$5K to $7K, although Richard Thompson has a most cost effective alternative.
Maybe significant wheel well corrosion...? Interior... $5 to $10K. Cockpit...who
knows!!!!! Fuel tank replacement and rewiring and plumbing may be
necessary... perhaps $20K. Wheels/tires and brakes around $5K.
4. Systems restoration... pressurisation, hydraulics, electrics will all probably
need major rework...perhaps $20K.
5. Engines...Tylor Hall has some great options emerging around Mr R.P.M. engines,
but you would need to allow at least probably $35K to $40K per side.
6. In total you maybe could expect to outlay somewhere around the $200K to
$250K mark.
The challenge is to establish and maintain a market for aircraft of such ilk
and price. There is no market in Australia at present but there maybe in the
US...?? Further, as a team how can we radically reduce the costs that I have
listed above...can we do it??
1999 Outcome here in Oz around VH-DCE
In the end, I accepted that the restoration of DCE was beyond my immediate
rational means and subsequently DCE was auctioned to a used car dealer for $7500
and is now displayed in his car yard as a sales gimmick remaining grounded.
The 560F that you reviewed probably represents much better value at $35K in
its very nearly complete condition. The panel seems very limited with many instruments
out of service and pasted over.
Hopefully many of our Commanderland team are in a position to add to the above.
We cannot stand by and continue to watch the fleet slowly dwindle and reduce
in number!
And now to use a Sir Barry term...I really must get out for some air...
Cheers and beers as always
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa |
Hi Russell et al !
Just so there's no confusion, there is no pressurisation system to worry
about on ZS-JWE, as its a 680FL, not a 680FLP.
Serial is 1340-25.
Certificated on October 10th 1963 as N164K.
Spent 7 years with Whiteman Manufacturing Co., in San Antonio, TX., then
after a few more owners, was exported to Botswana as A2-BAB in December
1974.
To South Africa in August 1976 as ZS-JWE.
To Denmark in April 1984 as OY-SUB.
Back to South Africa in August 1984, again as ZS-JWE.
Appears to be currently registered to MU2 Aircraft Investments (eye-test
needed?), on June 11th 1996.
My last reported sighting was on August 1st 1996, when it was noted at
Pretoria-Wonderboom with "Xugana Botswana" badge & no propellers.
Nice photos, Nico. Can you pop down to Venezuela, Colombia & Mexico to get
some more!!??
Very Best Regards to All,
Barry C.
Russell Legg
,
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
26/10/2001 cc:
14:00 Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa
G'day Nico,
Many thanks for sharing your research with us.
You are perfectly correct... seeing a grand old 680FLP in such a
forlorn condition is particularly heart-breaking.
So, what can we do about saving ZS-JWE?
First step...READ and re-read Chris Schuermann's excellent article, on
the web site, on why you should think twice before accepting the offer
of becoming the owner of a free but out of service Commander.
My experience here in Oz...
Unfortunately I don't have an Aeronautical Engineering ticket so there
is little work I can do other than paint strip, clean and pull apart.
I have to rely on the goodwill of time-pressed friends for the more
substantial kind of help or simply pay commercial rates for the work.
Two years ago I was faced with a similar dilemma here in Australia.
VH-DCE a sister ship 680FLP to your ZS-JWE and with an equally
retrousse nose, became available at auction in Brisbane.
Fifteen years before, I clocked up a host of hours on DCE and so now I
became passionate about maybe getting it back in the air.
Unfortunately DCE had been removed by road from an airport to an
instructional warehouse and in doing so had its wings surgically sawn
off outboard of the nacelles and then cosmetically re-attached.
How do you rebuild wings that have undergone this treatment?
My mate Richard Thompson has recently very successfully pulled and
re-attached a 680E Commander wing, so our team here has the knowledge
to at least get JWE packed into a shipping container with little
substantial damage.
So what were my costings (comments please from all) based on my
experience with VH-DCE and prices here in Oz (US$)?:
1. Initial purchase... depending on maintenance history/log-book
availability (very strict scrutinies from the authorities make
paperwork an expensive necessary asset in achieving airworthiness in
Oz) and spares holdings, a basic purchase of the airframe might line
up with the scrap value of the airframe...probably $3k to $4k. As a
favour to a frustrated airport management you could agree to remove it
for free from their facility.
Without a well established paper trail of available airframe and
systems maintenance history etc you could maybe add an extra $5k to
$10k.
Looks like with JWE you have a sound fuselage, but is that early
corrosion setting in along the external panel join line just below the
cheatline that I can see on your 'nose-on' photograph?
As Captain jimbob so rightly maintains with 222JS...weekly airflow
through the airframe makes so much difference and is the absolute
antithesis of corrosion.
But ultimately the unique problems with getting a 680FLP back in the
air is working your way through the systems...pressurisation, air,
hydraulics, auto-pilot, radar etc and those engines.
2. Rescuing the airframe... Finding an appropriate source of spares
and appropriately skilled restorative engineers in South Africa is
probably going to be difficult and expensive. So dismantling and
shipping JWE, as seen in your photos, to an appropriate maintenance
facility in the US is going to probably cost you $10k to $15k. I
imagine that the location of JWE (Jo-burg?) is close to the
availability of an appropriate crane and shipping container transport?
3. Airframe restoration...paint strip and anti-corrosion treatment
and repaint is going to cost you somewhere around $12K to $15K. Maybe
new windows all around...$5K to $7K, although Richard Thompson has a
most cost effective alternative. Maybe significant wheel well
corrosion...? Interior... $5 to $10K. Cockpit...who knows!!!!! Fuel
tank replacement and rewiring and plumbing may be necessary... perhaps
$20K. Wheels/tires and brakes around $5K.
4. Systems restoration... pressurisation, hydraulics, electrics will
all probably need major rework...perhaps $20K.
5. Engines...Tylor Hall has some great options emerging around Mr
R.P.M. engines, but you would need to allow at least probably $35K to
$40K per side.
6. In total you maybe could expect to outlay somewhere around the
$200K to $250K mark.
The challenge is to establish and maintain a market for aircraft of
such ilk and price. There is no market in Australia at present but
there maybe in the US...?? Further, as a team how can we radically
reduce the costs that I have listed above...can we do it??
1999 Outcome here in Oz around VH-DCE
In the end, I accepted that the restoration of DCE was beyond my
immediate rational means and subsequently DCE was auctioned to a used
car dealer for $7500 and is now displayed in his car yard as a sales
gimmick remaining grounded.
The 560F that you reviewed probably represents much better value at
$35K in its very nearly complete condition. The panel seems very
limited with many instruments out of service and pasted over.
Hopefully many of our Commanderland team are in a position to add to
the above. We cannot stand by and continue to watch the fleet slowly
dwindle and reduce in number!
And now to use a Sir Barry term...I really must get out for some
air...
Cheers and beers as always
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa |
I bow to your superior information, Sir Barry.
You are absolutely right. I photographed it at Wonderboom.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa
Hi Russell et al !
Just so there's no confusion, there is no pressurisation system to worry
about on ZS-JWE, as its a 680FL, not a 680FLP.
Serial is 1340-25.
Certificated on October 10th 1963 as N164K.
Spent 7 years with Whiteman Manufacturing Co., in San Antonio, TX., then
after a few more owners, was exported to Botswana as A2-BAB in December
1974.
To South Africa in August 1976 as ZS-JWE.
To Denmark in April 1984 as OY-SUB.
Back to South Africa in August 1984, again as ZS-JWE.
Appears to be currently registered to MU2 Aircraft Investments (eye-test
needed?), on June 11th 1996.
My last reported sighting was on August 1st 1996, when it was noted at
Pretoria-Wonderboom with "Xugana Botswana" badge & no propellers.
Nice photos, Nico. Can you pop down to Venezuela, Colombia & Mexico to get
some more!!??
Very Best Regards to All,
Barry C.
Russell Legg
,
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
26/10/2001 cc:
14:00 Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in
Africa
G'day Nico,
Many thanks for sharing your research with us.
You are perfectly correct... seeing a grand old 680FLP in such a
forlorn condition is particularly heart-breaking.
So, what can we do about saving ZS-JWE?
First step...READ and re-read Chris Schuermann's excellent article, on
the web site, on why you should think twice before accepting the offer
of becoming the owner of a free but out of service Commander.
My experience here in Oz...
Unfortunately I don't have an Aeronautical Engineering ticket so there
is little work I can do other than paint strip, clean and pull apart.
I have to rely on the goodwill of time-pressed friends for the more
substantial kind of help or simply pay commercial rates for the work.
Two years ago I was faced with a similar dilemma here in Australia.
VH-DCE a sister ship 680FLP to your ZS-JWE and with an equally
retrousse nose, became available at auction in Brisbane.
Fifteen years before, I clocked up a host of hours on DCE and so now I
became passionate about maybe getting it back in the air.
Unfortunately DCE had been removed by road from an airport to an
instructional warehouse and in doing so had its wings surgically sawn
off outboard of the nacelles and then cosmetically re-attached.
How do you rebuild wings that have undergone this treatment?
My mate Richard Thompson has recently very successfully pulled and
re-attached a 680E Commander wing, so our team here has the knowledge
to at least get JWE packed into a shipping container with little
substantial damage.
So what were my costings (comments please from all) based on my
experience with VH-DCE and prices here in Oz (US$)?:
1. Initial purchase... depending on maintenance history/log-book
availability (very strict scrutinies from the authorities make
paperwork an expensive necessary asset in achieving airworthiness in
Oz) and spares holdings, a basic purchase of the airframe might line
up with the scrap value of the airframe...probably $3k to $4k. As a
favour to a frustrated airport management you could agree to remove it
for free from their facility.
Without a well established paper trail of available airframe and
systems maintenance history etc you could maybe add an extra $5k to
$10k.
Looks like with JWE you have a sound fuselage, but is that early
corrosion setting in along the external panel join line just below the
cheatline that I can see on your 'nose-on' photograph?
As Captain jimbob so rightly maintains with 222JS...weekly airflow
through the airframe makes so much difference and is the absolute
antithesis of corrosion.
But ultimately the unique problems with getting a 680FLP back in the
air is working your way through the systems...pressurisation, air,
hydraulics, auto-pilot, radar etc and those engines.
2. Rescuing the airframe... Finding an appropriate source of spares
and appropriately skilled restorative engineers in South Africa is
probably going to be difficult and expensive. So dismantling and
shipping JWE, as seen in your photos, to an appropriate maintenance
facility in the US is going to probably cost you $10k to $15k. I
imagine that the location of JWE (Jo-burg?) is close to the
availability of an appropriate crane and shipping container transport?
3. Airframe restoration...paint strip and anti-corrosion treatment
and repaint is going to cost you somewhere around $12K to $15K. Maybe
new windows all around...$5K to $7K, although Richard Thompson has a
most cost effective alternative. Maybe significant wheel well
corrosion...? Interior... $5 to $10K. Cockpit...who knows!!!!! Fuel
tank replacement and rewiring and plumbing may be necessary... perhaps
$20K. Wheels/tires and brakes around $5K.
4. Systems restoration... pressurisation, hydraulics, electrics will
all probably need major rework...perhaps $20K.
5. Engines...Tylor Hall has some great options emerging around Mr
R.P.M. engines, but you would need to allow at least probably $35K to
$40K per side.
6. In total you maybe could expect to outlay somewhere around the
$200K to $250K mark.
The challenge is to establish and maintain a market for aircraft of
such ilk and price. There is no market in Australia at present but
there maybe in the US...?? Further, as a team how can we radically
reduce the costs that I have listed above...can we do it??
1999 Outcome here in Oz around VH-DCE
In the end, I accepted that the restoration of DCE was beyond my
immediate rational means and subsequently DCE was auctioned to a used
car dealer for $7500 and is now displayed in his car yard as a sales
gimmick remaining grounded.
The 560F that you reviewed probably represents much better value at
$35K in its very nearly complete condition. The panel seems very
limited with many instruments out of service and pasted over.
Hopefully many of our Commanderland team are in a position to add to
the above. We cannot stand by and continue to watch the fleet slowly
dwindle and reduce in number!
And now to use a Sir Barry term...I really must get out for some
air...
Cheers and beers as always
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (3) |
This AC was found at Grand Central airport, between Johannesburg and
Pretoria, being rebuilt.
It's particulars are as follows:
ZS-KZY
GULFSTREAM 1000
695.A
SNO-96051
TYPE CERT.2A4
PROD CERT 203
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (2) |
Re: We're comin'!Hi Nico!
Is this ZS-IMY? Serial 680F-1090-68?
Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (2)
This 680F was used as a camera platform and has lost its fuel pumps. Apparently
it has mid-life engines, low-time props and gearboxes. The owner wants about
$35K for it. (It still has an owner's manual!!)
I haven't had time to look at the logbooks. Will do so when I go back.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Myers <fmyers(at)qwest.net> |
Hi all my name is Fran.
I just joined the list because I am at the early stages of converting
Bull--- into actually buying an airplane.
Most of my choices have had the geared engine series and right know I am
leaning toward a 560.
A few people have said stay away from geared engines because gearboxes are
too expensive and impossible to find.
Could you kind people please tell me the truth about parts availability?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (2) |
Re: We're comin'!Barry,
Correct. The particulars that I could copy from it's plate are as follows:
680F
SER NO-680F-1090-68
TYPE CERT-2-A-4
PROD CERT 203
ENG IGSO-540-BIA
MANUF ASSN PLATE 286427
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (2)
Hi Nico!
Is this ZS-IMY? Serial 680F-1090-68?
Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (2)
This 680F was used as a camera platform and has lost its fuel pumps. Apparently
it has mid-life engines, low-time props and gearboxes. The owner wants about
$35K for it. (It still has an owner's manual!!)
I haven't had time to look at the logbooks. Will do so when I go back.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Fran Myers wrote:
> A few people have said stay away from geared engines because gearboxes are
> too expensive and impossible to find.
>
> Could you kind people please tell me the truth about parts availability?
Fran,
Parts for the geared Lycs are certainly not nearly as available
as a current production engine. That said, they ARE still very
maintainable - you will just have to work a little harder to
acquire major parts. There are a number of shops who still do
overhaul GO engines and they know where things are hidden. About
the only component I'm aware of that is getting very hard to find
a new one of is the main ring gear (bell gear) in the nose case.
Fortunatly, there seems to be an adequate supply of servicable
used ones around (and even a few new ones).
If you're looking for an airplane to fly LOTS of hours and own
for MANY years, and then pass along to your kids, a geared model
might not be my first recomendation. For the near-future at least,
I wouldn't be afraid to take advantage of the fantastic buys that
are available. The 435 and 480 engines are actually very nice
motors. (and you can't beat the sound!)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
I personally have not had much problem finding parts. There have been a few
times I have taken some time and legwork, but even at that, my total cost of
ownership has been minimal. the only real costs I have incurred is the
paint job, and the totallly new panel which includes a GNS430.
Mechanically, I have had no issues, as long as i fly it right, which is NOT
the same as you would fly an IO engine. That is where some folks have had
their problems, they let the wind push the props.
I love my 560 and am gonna hate to sell it soon. Of course all that depends
on how my divorce goes. (NOT airplane related)
I will be happy to share my experiences about my wonderful AC560 ser. 222,
all you need do is ask.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fran Myers" <fmyers(at)qwest.net>
To: "Commanderchat"
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 4:52 PM
Subject: Hello!!
> Hi all my name is Fran.
> I just joined the list because I am at the early stages of converting
> Bull--- into actually buying an airplane.
> Most of my choices have had the geared engine series and right know I am
> leaning toward a 560.
>
> A few people have said stay away from geared engines because gearboxes are
> too expensive and impossible to find.
>
> Could you kind people please tell me the truth about parts availability?
>
> Thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Tom Fisher wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I am about to purchase a 680FL with the IGSO 540.
> Although not the same engine as in the 560 I would dearly love to hear all
> that you have to say about flying your geared machine.
> I have read a few comments on this subject but everybody has their own
> slant.
> Dollars to donuts everyone else would as well.
Tom,
I'm replying and also re-directing this message. You had sent
it to the admin request address rather than the actual chatlist.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
To be quite honest I actually think this particular AC560 is probably the
easiest plane I have ever flown. And I think easier that a 172.
The only REAL hard part with this plane is taxiing. I was told when I
bought it by a gentleman who has over 16,000 hours and he told me over 9,000
in commanders, that the check ride is 21 hours. 1 in the air and 20 on the
ground.
It has very weak nose wheel steering run by a weak hydraulic ram. Rudders
are mostly useless unless you like to taxi at 30 - 40 knots then they are
only marginally helpful.
BUT..once you get the wheels off the ground and gear up...it climbes like a
bat out of .."you know what".
Fuel management is simply a matter of knowing how much fuel you have, and
how much you burn. The guage is VERY accurate, but I find more comfort
knowing I burn 25 gal per hour total, and that I have 145 useful gallons.
I never have to touch my mixtures except to start my engines, and stop them.
with Pressurized carbs. there is nothing to lean since the cabrs do a
beautiful job leaning on their own.
With the geard engines I only need to touch my prop controls a couple times.
Once on the first reduction on climb out, and on the second reduction till I
get to my desired altitude, then bringing them back to 2650 RPM, which is
the engine rpm.
Landing is a matter of gear down and locked, and only using the throttles.
Since you always want power to the props, moving the props full forward will
cause backlash on the gears, plus there is plenty of power at 2650 RPM,
should I need to make a go-around.
Blue line is 80 mph. yes 90mph. You can fly the pattern and final faster
if needed, but if I have the time, i.e. no BIG jet right beind me, I loaf on
in almost like I would in a 172. There are many times I make the first turn
off with no stress on the brakes or lateral forces on the gear.
I find this plane a true joy to fly. It is BIG, heavy and extremely stable
in the air. I have been in patterns where Cessna 206's and even seminols
are getting beat around. and I am only noticing mild turbulance. It will be
nice when I get a heat in the plane, not like I have had a real need to use
it, even when flying Nov. to March, from Pittsburgh PA< to Raleigh, NC. My
compressions are still at almost factory and I have a shade over 900 hours
on both engines.
If I am lucky and things work out with my divorce I will not have to sell
it, but my luck aint so good.
I am looking forward to doing the new interior, then a heater. With the
paint done, and the panel done it will be almost like a new plane.
I know I sound like a father talking about his kids.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Cc:
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Hello!!
> Tom Fisher wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > I am about to purchase a 680FL with the IGSO 540.
> > Although not the same engine as in the 560 I would dearly love to hear
all
> > that you have to say about flying your geared machine.
> > I have read a few comments on this subject but everybody has their own
> > slant.
> > Dollars to donuts everyone else would as well.
>
> Tom,
> I'm replying and also re-directing this message. You had sent
> it to the admin request address rather than the actual chatlist.
>
> Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Of rudders and nose wheels |
In a message dated 10/26/01 18:38:05 Pacific Daylight Time,
woodlema(at)intrex.net writes:
> It has very weak nose wheel steering run by a weak hydraulic ram. Rudders
> are mostly useless unless you like to taxi at 30 - 40 knots then they are
> only marginally helpful.
A little understanding of ground and flight controls is in order here.
Ted Smith had an aversion to using flight controls for ground steering use.
This is why the Commander rudder is "free" and not encumbered with bungees,
springs or anything else you'll see the other brands using to connect rudder
pedals to nose wheel steering apparatus.
In Ted Smith's original design and execution, all control feel was pure
aerodynamic force. (His characteristic light pitch feel was later augmented
with bob-weights when one goof ball pulled the wings off his Commander in a
T-storm)
I agree with Mark's comment that steering a Commander is "difficult" until it
is understood and mastered.
Half the fun of your Commander check-out is mastering the man-machine
interface.
On the technical side, one of the aspects of the Commander nose wheel
steering system efficiency is the output of the power brake valves.
If this adjustable output is not to specifications, steering will be less
than crisp, let alone predictable. I think many of us have taxied Commanders
that turned well one direction and not the other ... or didn't turn well at
all. That is symptomatic of less than optimum power brake valve out put.
(Don't ask me what that value is; my mind is cluttered up with other critical
numbers like my SSN, PINs for all my charge cards, and access codes for 137
porno websites and a few VERY important phone numbers.)
It's easy to spot a new Commander pilot: they lurch around on the taxi way
and turns are led with full rudder deflection.
Pretty soon they learn it's all in the light toe pressure of the top of the
rudder pedals and anticipating leading in and out of turns.
Wing Commander Gordon
co-recipient of the Golden Pedal Award,
Hillsboro, 2001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Of rudders and nose wheels |
The guy who taught me to taxi my Commander told me to let the nose wheel 'caster'
in the turn. There is hydraulic steering action in the first inch or so of
brake pedal travel, so taxiing at a reasonable clip and merely 'tapping' the toe
brakes would make the Commander turn where ever I wanted to, without ever activating
the brakes. You are right, it takes mastering the skill, but it is a
sweet system and sets anyone who can skillfully taxi an AC apart from the box-car
steering of regular PC's.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 10:43 PM
Subject: Of rudders and nose wheels
In a message dated 10/26/01 18:38:05 Pacific Daylight Time, woodlema(at)intrex.net
writes:
It has very weak nose wheel steering run by a weak hydraulic ram. Rudders
are mostly useless unless you like to taxi at 30 - 40 knots then they are
only marginally helpful.
A little understanding of ground and flight controls is in order here.
Ted Smith had an aversion to using flight controls for ground steering use.
This is why the Commander rudder is "free" and not encumbered with bungees, springs
or anything else you'll see the other brands using to connect rudder pedals
to nose wheel steering apparatus.
In Ted Smith's original design and execution, all control feel was pure aerodynamic
force. (His characteristic light pitch feel was later augmented with bob-weights
when one goof ball pulled the wings off his Commander in a T-storm)
I agree with Mark's comment that steering a Commander is "difficult" until it
is understood and mastered.
Half the fun of your Commander check-out is mastering the man-machine interface.
On the technical side, one of the aspects of the Commander nose wheel steering
system efficiency is the output of the power brake valves.
If this adjustable output is not to specifications, steering will be less than
crisp, let alone predictable. I think many of us have taxied Commanders that
turned well one direction and not the other ... or didn't turn well at all.
That is symptomatic of less than optimum power brake valve out put.
(Don't ask me what that value is; my mind is cluttered up with other critical
numbers like my SSN, PINs for all my charge cards, and access codes for 137 porno
websites and a few VERY important phone numbers.)
It's easy to spot a new Commander pilot: they lurch around on the taxi way and
turns are led with full rudder deflection.
Pretty soon they learn it's all in the light toe pressure of the top of the rudder
pedals and anticipating leading in and out of turns.
Wing Commander Gordon
co-recipient of the Golden Pedal Award,
Hillsboro, 2001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert J. Wilhelm <leopard(at)swiftkenya.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander 680FL |
Hi Nico,
Attached are the specs for the Commander 680FL. They dont show the radios
but they are mostly Collins Pro Line with an older monochrome Wx Radar. The
aircraft is in very good tick but hasnt flown now for a couple of years.
The C of A is not current, but it would not require much work to give it an
export C of A for RSA.
It is available for viewing in Nairobi and if you contact me I can sort out
the arrangements.
Hope youre enjoying your USA visit.
Bob Wilhelm
Robert J. Wilhelm
Reply to the contacts shown below
For Johannesburg RSA
Email:
Fax: 27-11-465-3700
Tel: 27-11- 465-3666
For Kenya
Email:
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 12:55 AM
Subject: RE: Commander 680FL
Thanks for your reply, Nico.
I will send you an up-to-date specification for the aircraft and some
pictures during the course of this next week after I get the latest specs
from the owner.
Alternatively, I will be coming to South Africa (I have an apartment at
Fourways) at the end of the month and I can give you a full history of the
aircraft at that time.
Kind regards
Robert J. Wilhelm
Reply to the contacts shown below
For Johannesburg RSA
Email:
Fax: 27-11-465-3700
Tel: 27-11- 465-3666
For Kenya
Email:
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 2:31 AM
Subject: Commander 680FL
Nico van Niekerk
Information has reached me that you may be in the market for a good Grand
Commander 680FL.
We have a very good machine that is currently available in our area. If you
are interested I would be happy to supply you with full specs and pricing.
Regards
Robert J. Wilhelm
Reply to the contacts shown below
For Johannesburg RSA
Email:
Fax: 27-11-465-3700
Tel: 27-11- 465-3666
For Kenya
Email: | Date: | Oct 27, 2001 |
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Of rudders and nose wheels |
Don't get me wrong. All that heavy equipment operating, i.e D9, 968 CAT, and the
such was good practice for learning the foot only controls of the AC560. I
have come to love it, and strive to keep the nose wheel on the centerline which
is the standard for commercial pilots, which i hope to be before my written
expires in Feb, 2002.
It is for certain that a plane thief would have a lot of trouble stealing a Commander
unless they already knew how to taxi one. Most likely they would end up
stuck someplace they cannot get out of.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 1:43 AM
Subject: Of rudders and nose wheels
In a message dated 10/26/01 18:38:05 Pacific Daylight Time, woodlema(at)intrex.net
writes:
It has very weak nose wheel steering run by a weak hydraulic ram. Rudders
are mostly useless unless you like to taxi at 30 - 40 knots then they are
only marginally helpful.
A little understanding of ground and flight controls is in order here.
Ted Smith had an aversion to using flight controls for ground steering use.
This is why the Commander rudder is "free" and not encumbered with bungees, springs
or anything else you'll see the other brands using to connect rudder pedals
to nose wheel steering apparatus.
In Ted Smith's original design and execution, all control feel was pure aerodynamic
force. (His characteristic light pitch feel was later augmented with bob-weights
when one goof ball pulled the wings off his Commander in a T-storm)
I agree with Mark's comment that steering a Commander is "difficult" until it
is understood and mastered.
Half the fun of your Commander check-out is mastering the man-machine interface.
On the technical side, one of the aspects of the Commander nose wheel steering
system efficiency is the output of the power brake valves.
If this adjustable output is not to specifications, steering will be less than
crisp, let alone predictable. I think many of us have taxied Commanders that
turned well one direction and not the other ... or didn't turn well at all.
That is symptomatic of less than optimum power brake valve out put.
(Don't ask me what that value is; my mind is cluttered up with other critical
numbers like my SSN, PINs for all my charge cards, and access codes for 137 porno
websites and a few VERY important phone numbers.)
It's easy to spot a new Commander pilot: they lurch around on the taxi way and
turns are led with full rudder deflection.
Pretty soon they learn it's all in the light toe pressure of the top of the rudder
pedals and anticipating leading in and out of turns.
Wing Commander Gordon
co-recipient of the Golden Pedal Award,
Hillsboro, 2001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: funnycommercials |
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Woodley
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; mslarue2u(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 3:05 PM
Subject: funnycommercials
http://www.garys-place.com/ftp/stretchi.mpe
http://www.nestreetriders.com/linkedto/guessagain.asf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Of rudders and nose wheels |
I personally never had any trouble learning to taxi the Commanders, but I
grew up on farm and had been using differential braking on tractors my whole
life.
Then I learned to fly in a Grumman Single that had no nose wheel steering at
all. Just toe brakes and a free castor nose wheel.
If you try to think of it like that it's not to bad, let the first inch of
toe pedal travel get the wheel started castoring the way you want it to go,
and then lead the turn out with opposite toe pedal pressure. Differential
power really seams to help the commanders more than other light twins as well.
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Of rudders and nose wheels |
In a message dated 10/27/01 08:07:33 Pacific Daylight Time,
woodlema(at)intrex.net writes:
> Don't get me wrong. All that heavy equipment operating, i.e D9, 968 CAT,
> and the such was good practice for learning the foot only controls of the
>
Good call, Mark! Thanks for the validation of a wild theory of mine.
You're right; of all the guys I've taught to fly Commanders, the ones who
took to it the fastest had some kind of tractor background.
There's also something about earth moving businesses and Commanders that
attract each other.
When you look at mining, road building and civil engineering businesses, they
tend toward Commanders as corporate aircraft -- or at least that was the case
10 to 20 years ago, before baby jets became entry level biz aircraft.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com> |
Barry,
I saw a few more pics @ http://www.airliners.net.
1) Rockwell 500/685 Commander
2) Rockwell Aero Commander 500
What's up with the 500S(Reefwatch) "King Air" style windows.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Round Windows? |
Hi Mark!
There were a few Shrikes used by the Australian 'Coastwatch', which had the
round 'bubble' windows.
Optically 'perfect', they enabled observers to check out suspicious marine
traffic, and presumably photograph them etc.
There are more Commander pictures under Gulfstream (perhaps only one at the
moment), North American, and Rockwell.
Have you all seen the wild paint scheme on the 695 in Germany as D-IHSI? Look
under "Aero Commander -" (that's Aero Commandr, space,dash), although at my
suggestion, having given them the serial, it may be moved very shortly to
Rockwell. It's the midnight blue one with planets.
I'm sending John Vormbaum $10 towards getting his done in a similar scheme!!
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 8:32 PM
Subject: Round Windows?
| Barry,
|
| I saw a few more pics @ http://www.airliners.net.
|
| 1) Rockwell 500/685 Commander
| 2) Rockwell Aero Commander 500
|
| What's up with the 500S(Reefwatch) "King Air" style windows.
|
| Mark
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ANOTHER NEW MEMBER |
HI KIDS.........
Our group is growing!! Let me introduce you to yet another new
TCFG member. Gordon Duncan lives in Shady Shores, TX and flies a highly
modified 500B N9399R It has all the trick stuff including Cleveland brakes,
90 amp alternators, square rudder cap and a yet to be installed "Shrike" nose.
WELCOME GORDON!!
PS Remember, I will still give a TCFG "T" shirt to anyone who signs up a new
member! Thanks!! capt jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | 'T' SHIRTS, BIPLANES AND RAIN |
HI KIDS......
Just a note to let you know I haven't forgot the "T" shirts. To
those who ordered them, please be patient. I was in SEA yesterday and the
shirts were supposed to be ready but............they were not. Monday he
PROMISES he will ship them to me so I will plane on getting them to those who
have ordered them mid week. (There is still time to order yours!!) I am
really sorry for the delay. He had originally promised me them last week!
Oh well.
I did get the Sea cat moved yesterday but not without a bit of a
challenge. I started her on Thursday for the first time in 6 weeks and she
ran well. Ran it for 10 minutes or so and shut down to have the line crew
move it to the gas pumps.
After fueling and completing the pre flight, I planed to do a "once
around the pond" but IT WOULD NOT START!!!!!!!!!
In 15 years and 8500 hours flying P & W 985s and 1340s, this was a
FIRST. After 4 hours of fussing and cussing, it just started!! I and
everyone at Kenmore was stumped but assumed it had to have something to do
with all the rain that had recently fallen, (on my poor exposed engine)
Anyway, no flying that eve #!~ %#X@#~! But it did start and run
normally the next day and the resident "white haired" Magneto guy assured me
that water was indeed the culprit. He said this is common on old mags and
that they use a different process now when they OH them.
The rest of the trip to American Lake was uneventful and fun (no
fighter escort although I did monitor 121.5 and could hear some talking going
on just out of reception range)
Now the rain stats again and it is really pouring here, so glad to get
the old gal back under cover for winter.
I know, it wasnt about Commanders but I though some of you might want
to know anyway. Hope all is well in Commanderland.................jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 'T' SHIRTS, BIPLANES AND RAIN |
We were waiting for the 'normalization' of affairs there too. Thanks for the update.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 2:47 PM
Subject: 'T' SHIRTS, BIPLANES AND RAIN
HI KIDS......
Just a note to let you know I haven't forgot the "T" shirts. To
those who ordered them, please be patient. I was in SEA yesterday and the shirts
were supposed to be ready but............they were not. Monday he PROMISES
he will ship them to me so I will plane on getting them to those who have ordered
them mid week. (There is still time to order yours!!) I am really sorry
for the delay. He had originally promised me them last week! Oh well.
I did get the Sea cat moved yesterday but not without a bit of a challenge.
I started her on Thursday for the first time in 6 weeks and she ran well.
Ran it for 10 minutes or so and shut down to have the line crew move it to
the gas pumps.
After fueling and completing the pre flight, I planed to do a "once around
the pond" but IT WOULD NOT START!!!!!!!!!
In 15 years and 8500 hours flying P & W 985s and 1340s, this was a FIRST.
After 4 hours of fussing and cussing, it just started!! I and everyone at
Kenmore was stumped but assumed it had to have something to do with all the rain
that had recently fallen, (on my poor exposed engine)
Anyway, no flying that eve #!~ %#X@#~! But it did start and run normally
the next day and the resident "white haired" Magneto guy assured me that water
was indeed the culprit. He said this is common on old mags and that they
use a different process now when they OH them.
The rest of the trip to American Lake was uneventful and fun (no fighter
escort although I did monitor 121.5 and could hear some talking going on just
out of reception range)
Now the rain stats again and it is really pouring here, so glad to get
the old gal back under cover for winter.
I know, it wasnt about Commanders but I though some of you might want to
know anyway. Hope all is well in Commanderland.................jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com> |
Sir Barry,
A true plethora of knowledege! Thanks!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Round Windows? |
Yay! My paintjob is closer to becoming a reality, thanks to Barry's
generosity! Now, all of you other Commanderites need to send me $10, $50 or
perhaps $100 each. THEN I absolutely will paint the moon & planets on my
airplane...
Please reply to this email and I will give you my address where you can send
your charitable (but not tax-deductible) contribution.
Cheers & thanks again (in advance) to all for the financial gifts that I'm
sure are already speeding their way to my mailbox.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Round Windows?
> Hi Mark!
>
> There were a few Shrikes used by the Australian 'Coastwatch', which had
the
> round 'bubble' windows.
>
> Optically 'perfect', they enabled observers to check out suspicious marine
> traffic, and presumably photograph them etc.
>
> There are more Commander pictures under Gulfstream (perhaps only one at
the
> moment), North American, and Rockwell.
>
> Have you all seen the wild paint scheme on the 695 in Germany as D-IHSI?
Look
> under "Aero Commander -" (that's Aero Commandr, space,dash), although at
my
> suggestion, having given them the serial, it may be moved very shortly to
> Rockwell. It's the midnight blue one with planets.
>
> I'm sending John Vormbaum $10 towards getting his done in a similar
scheme!!
>
> Very Best Regards,
>
> Barry C.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 8:32 PM
> Subject: Round Windows?
>
>
> | Barry,
> |
> | I saw a few more pics @ http://www.airliners.net.
> |
> | 1) Rockwell 500/685 Commander
> | 2) Rockwell Aero Commander 500
> |
> | What's up with the 500S(Reefwatch) "King Air" style windows.
> |
> | Mark
> |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Round Windows? |
In a message dated 10/27/01 13:49:34 Pacific Daylight Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
> Have you all seen the wild paint scheme on the 695 in Germany as D-IHSI? Look
> under "Aero Commander -" (that's Aero Commandr, space,dash), although at my
> suggestion, having given them the serial, it may be moved very shortly to
> Rockwell. It's the midnight blue one with planets.
>
Actually crawled around that one when I was at Downtown Airpark in 1994. The
owner used it to fly back and forth between Germany and the U.S.
It not only has planets, but a whole galaxy scene and other heavenly bodies.
So ... when filing a flight plan, what does he list as "aircraft colour?"
Universe?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Round Windows? |
Heavenly bodies?.........HHHHhhhhmmmm
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Round Windows?
In a message dated 10/27/01 13:49:34 Pacific Daylight Time, barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
writes:
Have you all seen the wild paint scheme on the 695 in Germany as D-IHSI? Look
under "Aero Commander -" (that's Aero Commandr, space,dash), although at my
suggestion, having given them the serial, it may be moved very shortly to
Rockwell. It's the midnight blue one with planets.
Actually crawled around that one when I was at Downtown Airpark in 1994. The
owner used it to fly back and forth between Germany and the U.S.
It not only has planets, but a whole galaxy scene and other heavenly bodies.
So ... when filing a flight plan, what does he list as "aircraft colour?" Universe?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commanders in Africa |
Nico,
This is great. They are a real company. We are expecting to hear from them
this week.
What is your phone number??? And where do you live??
I am in the Kansas City area.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Nico van Niekerk [mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 9:19 AM
To: Tylor Hall
Subject: Re: Commanders in Africa
Tylor,
I made contact with an outfit that uses Pelican as their charter partner and
they promised to let me have a telephone number. Once we have that we can
get to the South African CAA to get their license particulars. That should
give us some data on their status.
I will keep you posted.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:thall5(at)kc.rr.com>
To: Nico van Niekerk
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 5:54 PM
Subject: RE: Commanders in Africa
Nico,
It is more like $3.5MM. He is also talking about some turbo props as well.
He said that they could finance this internally. We want to find out if
this company is real or just pulling our chain. Is there anywhere we can
find anything about the company? I was not able to find anything on the
web.
We are trying to get him to put all the money up front in an account here
in the US. We would then draw against it as we go. All cash deal.
Sounds like you can bring something to the table. The problem of using
aircraft over there is that the engines and everything else is here. Unless
we fly a new one over and fly one back. That would be an interesting trip.
Doing something in country would take someone going over there and spending
a lot of time rebuilding them there. Can we get skilled labor there and at
what price?
My son is in Cameroon with the Peace Corps. He is outside of Garoua.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Nico van Niekerk [mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 8:20 PM
To: Tylor Hall
Subject: Re: Commanders in Africa
Confidential it will remain.
Is that the crowd that flies safari guests from Johannesburg to Vilanculos
in Mozambique? I didn't think that they had the balls to go for a (my guess)
$2.5 million+ order. Oh, well, it is their business; as long as they pay,
no?
Perhaps it would be worth your while to look at existing FL's in South
Africa as platforms for a rebuild. There could be great deals because high
fuel and maintenance costs made these ships very unpopular, except for
operators that can haul a lot of paying customers, of course.
Perhaps I can bring some value to the table in this project. I know the
country and aviation scene very well.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:thall5(at)kc.rr.com>
To: Nico van Niekerk
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 2:50 PM
Subject: Commanders in Africa
Nico,
I know where there are several engines and props to be had for good prices.
Engines range from 0-SMOH to 1300 hours. You may want to find out where the
old engines went just to get the parts like gear boxes, cranks, cams, and
other hard to get parts for the GSIO-540s.
You need to find out when she last flew. If she has been sitting for 10
plus years, you are going to need fuel bladders, new hoses, fuel lines, fuel
sump inspection, fuel pumps, and any thing from fuel tanks to the engines
looked at or replaced.
The landing gear may need to be rebuilt with new o-rings and new hydraulic
lines. Any thing rubber may need to be replaced. Tires??? Check the
rudder for wind damage to the rudder horn and the torque tube like was
discussed in the last TCFG newsletter.
Next is fixing the panel with new or rebuilt instruments, radio switch
panel, lights, and all the rest. You will have to figure out what was in
each hole and fill it with something.
You cannot pay too much for the airframe since it has been robbed of so
much. I would offer $1.00 US and take it off his hands and go from there.
I would guess that it would take over $100,000 to get it back into the air.
We are talking 2000 to 3000 man-hours of time. It would not all have to
happen at once.
What support services are available there?? Jacks, hangars, parts, what
would you have to bring into country VS what is available there and at what
price??
This is confidential and not public. I am working on an order for 8-680FLs
for South Africa with the MR. RPM conversion. They want more. Have you
ever heard of Pelican Air in South Africa?
This could be a very interesting project. Call me.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (4) |
This AC was found at Grand Central airport, between Johannesburg and
Pretoria. You can see on one of the pics the poor guy sitting in the cabin
with a wiring diagram, trying to make sense of the harnass.
It's particulars are as follows:
ZS-KZZ
GULFSTREAM COMM
695A
SN 96052
TYPE 2A4 PROD 203
Enjoy
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ricardo A. Otaola <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (4) |
Is it for sale??
Ricardo A. Otaola
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (4)
>
>
> This AC was found at Grand Central airport, between Johannesburg and
> Pretoria. You can see on one of the pics the poor guy sitting in the cabin
> with a wiring diagram, trying to make sense of the harnass.
> It's particulars are as follows:
>
> ZS-KZZ
> GULFSTREAM COMM
> 695A
> SN 96052
> TYPE 2A4 PROD 203
>
> Enjoy
>
> Nico
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ricardo A. Otaola <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (4) |
In Venezuela. I have a 690B, and I am actively seeking a 900 or a 1000
Commander. This one seems OK. I am sure it needs some repairs.
Ricardo A. Otaola
Gerente General
Newcom Venezuela
582-9934234 / 0904
rotaola(at)newcomamericas.net
www.newcomamericas.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
To: Ricardo A. Otaola
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (4)
> I don't know. I will find out if you have a serious interest. Where are
you
> located?
> Let me know.
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ricardo A. Otaola" <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve>
> To: "Nico van Niekerk"
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (4)
>
>
> > Is it for sale??
> >
> >
> > Ricardo A. Otaola
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 9:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (4)
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > This AC was found at Grand Central airport, between Johannesburg and
> > > Pretoria. You can see on one of the pics the poor guy sitting in the
> cabin
> > > with a wiring diagram, trying to make sense of the harnass.
> > > It's particulars are as follows:
> > >
> > > ZS-KZZ
> > > GULFSTREAM COMM
> > > 695A
> > > SN 96052
> > > TYPE 2A4 PROD 203
> > >
> > > Enjoy
> > >
> > > Nico
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS...........
I had a nice chat with TCFG member Craig Lundborg from Vethel
Island, CA today. He has been a "special" member but said he has made an
offer on a 680S in FL. Sounds like a nice airplane. He was at the flyin but
dint register, just "stuck his head in and looked around" After "drooling"
over the the airplanes his wife enthusiastically gave him permission to buy
one. He then shared his newsletters with a friend who also has made an offer
on a Commander!!, a 500.
Pretty cool. Some airplanes are moving around and that is a good
thing. hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Hope everyone is doing well these days! I wanted to take
a moment of your time just to re-itterate some general rules
of chatlist etiquite for everyone and the new folks who've
joined since the last update.
We have two mail lists currently active:
commanderchat@c2-tech.com
and
commandertech@c2-tech.com
"chat" may be used for general and social discussions.
Many of use are old buddies, and this list was created just
for use to socialize and BS.
"tech" is to be used ONLY for Commander-specific topics,
questions, and discussions. We have folks on the tech list
from various companies, service centers, etc as well as some
who are connected via dial-up slow links. Please be kind and
do not ever post attachments or pictures to the tech list.
Please help keep this list "Commander Tech" only.
For either list, when replying to a message, please be sure
to prune your "send-to" list. If you are replying to the
list, make sure to remove other addresses as they'll end up
getting two copies (one to them, one from the list server)
if you don't.
Y'all have a safe punkin' day!
Chris
PS: been a bit since I've received any new "Commander of the
Month" submissions. Send 'em in!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Missing You Milt! |
G'day Milt,
Just wanted to note that all ur old mates are in the middle of wondering how
goes it for you!!?
Haven't heard from you for a bit!
Hope life is good in your corner!
Cheers and beers
Russell
Ps Where are you Big Al?????????????????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa |
> Just so there's no confusion, there is no pressurisation system to worry
> about on ZS-JWE, as its a 680FL, not a 680FLP.
>
Hi Sir Barry and all!
Many thanks for the correction...I guess the air (excitement) had gone to my
head!
On behalf of everyone I want to thank Nico for his excellent efforts in
updating us on Commanders in S. Africa.
Well done Nico and please keep it up.
Nico's leadership in digitising his latest trip gives new meaning to Capt
jimbob's call to us all to carry a cardboard camera with us in our Nav Bags.
Let's keep snooping around airfields and have our Commander sightings coming
thick and fast!
Cheers and beers
Russell
Stuck in Commanderland in Oz,
Proud holder of the TCFG 2001 'Furthest Travelled Award' & and awe-struck
co-witness to that Hillsboro event...the 4-engine 680E take-off!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Safari.net <snbackup(at)africam.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Information please |
Dear Nico
Thank you for your e-mail regarding your concern about Pelican Airways.
Apparently they are a very reputable airline. We use them in conjunction
with Unusual Destinations which is a tour operating company currently
putting the packages together. If you would like to contact the airline,
their details are:
Tel: 011-973-3649
or cell: 082-871-2727
Ask for either Anne or Peter
I hope that they are able to satisfy your concern. I look forward to
hearing from you.
Kind regards
Amy
Amy Quiding
Account Executive
Safari.net
___________________________________
Unit 68, Studio Park, 5 Concourse Crescent
Lonehill, 2062 South Africa
P O Box 1955, Witkoppen, 2068
Telephone +27.11.267.7018/21
Facsimile +27.11.465.2215
Mobile +27.83.452.5996
amyq(at)africam.co.za
www.safari.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Nico van Niekerk [mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com]
Sent: Monday, Ocober 29, 2001 5:14 PM
To: customercare(at)mail.safari.net
Subject: Information please
Dear Sir/Madam,
I saw a featured article on your company on the Mail & Guardian's website
and noticed that Pelican Airways is flying your customers to Vilanculos in
Mozambique, but I have never heard of a Pelican Airways that operates in
South Africa. Could you perhaps give me more information about them, and
especially a telephone number, since I would not want to fly with an outfit
that I have not looked at and perhaps given a call to be comfortable with
them.
Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Nico van Niekerk
President & CEO
CyberSuperStore, Inc.
Woodland Hills
CA 91364
USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
Nico,
Thank you for your efforts.
Dick called last night and said that he got another e-mail from Pelican Air
and things seem on track.
They are finalizing the purchase of the aircraft so we can modify them.
I hope they will be coming to the US next week.
I am going back to Puerto Rico and will be looking at a 680FL that I found
there.
I have enjoyed your photos of other Twin Commanders.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight) |
In a message dated 10/30/01 11:36:37 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Ahhh. The freedom of flight.
For a second, I thought we were going to see a flyable Commander in Africa.
Thanks for all the photos taken during your safari. I appreciate them, as
well.
Now ... get back on the right side of the road.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight) |
Ahhh. The freedom of flight.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Myers <fmyers(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Commander Conversions |
I know the Mr. RPM conversions and the Riley conversions for the 500 and
520a's.
Is there any other engine conversions for the 560 series?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fairoaks arrival |
Hi Chaps!
We had another interesting arrival at Mann Aviation's facility at Fairoaks, here
in little old England.
690A-11121 arrived about lunch-time, so took the afternoon off work, bolted home
for the cameras, then sped down the M40 & M25.
Registration is S5-CAI.
Now, who knows what Country that's from? (I do, of course!). No prizes, but
first correct entry wins the acclaim of the rest!
The former Turkish one, which arrived at Fairoaks back in the middle of July is
still there, awaiting new engines.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight) |
In a message dated 10/30/01 11:36:37 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Ahhh. The freedom of flight.
For a second, I thought we were going to see a flyable Commander in Africa.
Thanks for all the photos taken during your safari. I appreciate them, as
well.
Now ... get back on the right side of the road.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight) |
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com said:
>Ahhh. The freedom of flight.
>Nico
But Nico the readings are in km/h.
The commanders still do much better.
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Conversions |
In a message dated 10/30/01 13:34:01 Pacific Standard Time, fmyers(at)qwest.net
writes:
> I know the Mr. RPM conversions and the Riley conversions for the 500 and
> 520a's.
>
> Is there any other engine conversions for the 560 series?
>
Fran,
The only piston conversions are the Mr. RPM for 680 - F series (F, FL, FLP,
FP), The Colemill conversion for the AC-500A and the Orenda engine for the
AC-685.
The topic of engine conversions for the "bathtub" nacelle Commanders is a
long standing debate and wish and has never been done via STC.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fairoaks arrival |
In a message dated 10/30/01 14:10:42 Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
> Registration is S5-CAI.
>
> Now, who knows what Country that's from? (I do, of course!). No prizes, but
> first correct entry wins the acclaim of the rest!
>
That's easy, Sir Barry.
Slovenia.
Ask us a hard question.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight) |
Nico,
Nice car , bugger the speed limit but you will have to do better than that.
All time record Virginia Airport to Jan Smuts 3hr 35 min. BMW 327IS with
Alpina conversion. Was not allowed to import the car into Australia, Seems it
would not comply with local regulations.Just as well the roads in OZ are crap.
Have a great day,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Conversions |
Fran,
I searched the STC list, but did not find anything about a different engine
for the 560's. The GO-480-B, GO-480-G1B6 are know a strong engines. There
seems to be a good supply of parts. Jim Bob has found the sources for
repairs to the gears.
Can anyone in Commanderland help Fran??
What is your concern about the engines??? If you are thinking of Turbos for
a 560, think about a 680 instead. Same airframe, same engine with
supercharger. There is less maintenance with a supercharger. Big Al has a
nice 680 for sale.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Fran Myers [mailto:fmyers(at)qwest.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:26 AM
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Commander Conversions
I know the Mr. RPM conversions and the Riley conversions for the 500 and
520a's.
Is there any other engine conversions for the 560 series?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
For those of you who havn't been following the news, we've
got a new set of NOTAMs just issued. Y'all be REAL carefull
out there - this sounds like a good time to get shot down!
Chris
==> FAA CREATES GA NO-FLY ZONE AROUND NUCLEAR SITES <==
Taking action on Attorney General John Ashcroft's statement that there
are
"credible reports" of the possibility of another major terrorist attack
within the week, the FAA Tuesday issued a notam prohibiting general
aviation
operations around 86 nuclear sites--mostly power plants--in 36 states.
See
AOPA Online for a map of the nuclear sites
( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2001/011030map.html ). Although
severe, the temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) are scheduled to be in
place for only one week, until 0500Z November 7 (midnight Eastern time
on
November 6). The TFRs extend horizontally to a 10-nautical-mile radius
below
18,000 feet msl around designated nuclear sites and effectively prohibit
GA operations at 465 landing facilities, public and private, nationwide.
AOPA is posting a complete list of affected airports on AOPA Online. See
( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2001/011030airports.html ). The
84
affected public-use airports are listed below.
"Are we happy with this at AOPA? Absolutely not! However it could have
been
much worse," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "This morning I spoke at
length
on this situation with FAA Administrator Jane Garvey and Deputy
Administrator
Monte Belger, and both indicated that FAA spent all day yesterday being
briefed on the aviation component of the national security alert issued
yesterday by the FBI. Some of the proposed solutions involved grounding
all
general aviation traffic everywhere. Pilots must make every effort to
get
the latest notams and to avoid these sensitive areas."
For weeks, the FAA has been under pressure to issue TFRs for nuclear
sites.
"We believe this threat to be credible, and for that reason it should be
taken seriously."
AOPA has sent this special message to you because of the broad coverage
of the notam restrictions. For the latest developments, see AOPA Online
( http://www.aopa.org ).
==> NOTAM TEXT <==
FDC 1/1763 FDC TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS OVER NUCLEAR SITES. FOR
REASONS
OF NATIONAL SECURITY. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL NOVEMBER 07, 2001 0500
UTC.
PURSUANT TO TITLE 14 CFR SECTIONS 91.139, EMERGENCY AIR TRAFFIC RULES
AND
99.7 SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS. ALL GENERAL AVIATION FLIGHT
OPERATIONS ARE
PROHIBITED WITHIN A 10 NAUTICAL MILES RADIUS OF AND BELOW 18000 FEET MSL
OVER
THE BELOW LISTED NUCLEAR SITES EXCEPT FOR MEDEVAC, LAW ENFORCEMENT,
RESCUE/
RECOVERY, EMERGENCY EVACUATION AND FIRE FIGHTING OPERATIONS WHEN
AUTHORIZED BY
ATC
For the complete notam, see AOPA Online
( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2001/010915tfr.html#1/1763 ).
==> PUBLIC-USE AIRPORTS AFFECTED BY NUCLEAR-SITE TFR <==
Alabama -- DCU, Pryor Field Regional, Decatur
Arizona -- BXK, Buckeye Municipal, Buckeye
California -- C83, Byron, Byron; LVK, Livermore Municipal, Livermore;
TCY, Tracy Municipal, Tracy
Colorado -- 1V5, Boulder Municipal, Boulder; BJC, Jeffco, Denver;
48V, Tri-County, Erie
Connecticut -- GON, Groton-New London, Groton New London
Delaware -- EVY, Summit, Middletown
Florida -- CGC, Crystal River, Crystal River; HST, Homestead ARB,
Homestead
Idaho -- IDA, Idaho Falls Regional, Idaho Falls
Illinois -- I01, Empress River Casino, Joliet; JOT, Joliet Regional,
Joliet;
M30, Metropolis Municipal, Metropolis; C09, Morris Municipal-James R.
Washburn
Field, Morris; C55, Barnett Memorial, Mount Morris
Iowa -- CWI, Clinton Municipal, Clinton
Kansas -- UKL, Coffey County, Burlington
Kentucky -- PAH, Barkley Regional, Paducah
Louisiana -- HZR, False River Air Park, New Roads; 1L0, St John The
Baptist
Parish, Reserve
Maryland -- 2W6, Capt Walter Francis Duke Regional At St Mary's,
Leonardtown
Massachusetts -- 2B2, Plum Island, Newburyport; PYM, Plymouth Municipal,
Plymouth
Michigan -- C20, Andrews University Airpark, Berrien Springs; W87,
Wickenheiser,
Carleton; ONZ, Grosse Ile Municipal, Detroit/Grosse Ile; TTF, Custer,
Monroe;
0D1, South Haven Area Regional, South Haven; 40C, Watervliet Municipal,
Watervliet
Minnesota -- 8Y6, Leaders Clear Lake, Clear Lake; MGG, Maple Lake
Municipal,
Maple Lake
Missouri -- 0L8, Heart, Kansas City; MKC, Kansas City Downtown, Kansas
City
Nebraska -- K01, Farington Field, Auburn; K46, Blair Municipal, Blair;
3NO,
North Omaha, Omaha
Nevada -- TPH, Tonopah, Tonopa
New Hampshire -- 7B3, Hampton Airfield, Hampton
New Jersey -- MJX, Robert J. Miller Air Park, Toms River
New Mexico -- LAM, Los Alamos, Los Alamos; E98, Mid Valley Airpark, Los
Lunas
New York -- 0B8, Elizabeth Field, Fishers Island; H43, Haverstraw,
Haverstraw;
7N2, Peekskill, Peekskill; 3G7, Williamson-Sodus, Williamson/Sodus
North Carolina -- AKH, Gastonia Municipal, Gastonia; TTA, Sanford-Lee
County
Regional, Sanford; SUT, Brunswick County, Southport
Ohio -- 02G, Columbiana County, East Liverpool; 2G1, Concord Airpark,
Painesville; EOP, Pike County, Waverly
Pennsylvania -- BVI, Beaver County, Beaver Falls; P64, Miller,
Burgettstown;
Harrisburg International, Harrisburg; HZL, Hazleton Municipal, Hazleton;
N71,
Donegal Springs Airpark, Mount Joy/Marietta; N47, Pottstown Municipal,
Pottstown; PTW, Pottstown Limerick, Pottstown
South Carolina -- CEU, Oconee County Regional, Clemson; HVS, Hartsville
Regional, Hartsville; LQK, Pickens County, Pickens; UZA, Rock Hill/York
Co/Bryant
Field, Rock Hill
Tennessee -- 1A0, Dallas Bay Sky Park, Chattanooga; 2A0, Mark Anton,
Dayton
Texas -- AMA, Amarillo Intl, Amarillo; CFD, Coulter Field, Bryan; CLL,
Easterwood
Field, College Station; F55, Granbury Municipal, Granbury
Virginia -- 7W4, Lake Anna, Bumpass; LKU, Louisa County/Freeman Field,
Louisa;
LYH, Lynchburg Regional/Preston Glenn Field, Lynchburg; W24, Falwell,
Lynchburg;
PHF, Newport News/Williamsburg International, Newport News; JGG,
Williamsburg-
Jamestown, Williamsburg
Washington -- S98, Vista Field, Kennewick; PSC, Tri-Cities, Pasco; RLD,
Richland,
Richland
Wisconsin -- RGK, Red Wing Regional, Red Wing
West Virginia -- 7G1, Herron, New Cumberland
--------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight) |
Yes, they do but this is only a Merc, you know. :-)
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Sharp" <sharp.r(at)apple.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight)
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com said:
>
> >Ahhh. The freedom of flight.
> >Nico
>
> But Nico the readings are in km/h.
> The commanders still do much better.
>
> Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fairoaks arrival |
OK, Wing Commander Gordon, Tell US
(after I looked it up as where Slovenia is, If you do not know you should
look it up)
Where does one find the data base of numbers for aircraft and where they
come from??
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com [mailto:CloudCraft(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:05 PM
To: barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
Cc: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: Fairoaks arrival
In a message dated 10/30/01 14:10:42 Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
Registration is S5-CAI.
Now, who knows what Country that's from? (I do, of course!). No prizes, but
first correct entry wins the acclaim of the rest!
That's easy, Sir Barry.
Slovenia.
Ask us a hard question.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/30/01 19:41:16 Pacific Standard Time, tylorh(at)sound.net
writes:
> OK, Wing Commander Gordon, Tell US
> (after I looked it up as where Slovenia is, If you do not know you should
> look it up)
> Where does one find the data base of numbers for aircraft and where they
> come from??
>
Hey! That's one of my favorite party tricks and you want me to give it away?
Are you out of your mind?
OK, I'll do it, but just for you, Tyler. The rest of you have to promise not
to look. It's one of those 137 porno sites I spend my time at.
It's in several places, but Landings.com has the easiest link.
The URL to by pass all the steps is:
http://www1.drive.net/evird.acgi$pass*40717093!mtd*41!var*20!cgi*/cgi-bin/get_
file!buf*66!src*_landings/pages/search/reg-prefix.html!ref*prefix_p.html
But you can get there from here by going to
landings.com, bottom of page > search data bases,
select "prefix" under "registrations"
I'm sure it will spoil Sir Barry's fun and we'll have to give him something
nice for Trick or Treat.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | An Adventure In Training |
If only it were this easy . . . Jim & Lori
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight) |
Nico,
Nice car , bugger the speed limit but you will have to do better than that.
All time record Virginia Airport to Jan Smuts 3hr 35 min. BMW 327IS with
Alpina conversion. Was not allowed to import the car into Australia, Seems it
would not comply with local regulations.Just as well the roads in OZ are crap.
Have a great day,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight) |
Not bad, Richard. This was only a Merc 180 C. Not bad for a 1800cc job. Won't
tell you what the fine was, though.
I had a Porsche 928S and did Pretoria to HVdam in 4 hours. Cruised at 260 Km/hr.
Was a feast. (Still slower than the Commander - damn! Did the same trip in my
straight 500 in 1hr 50 mins with much less instruction from the wife's side).
Anyway.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: RnJThompson(at)aol.com
To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Aero Commanders in Africa (5) (Freedom of flight)
Nico,
Nice car , bugger the speed limit but you will have to do better than that.
All time record Virginia Airport to Jan Smuts 3hr 35 min. BMW 327IS with Alpina
conversion. Was not allowed to import the car into Australia, Seems it would
not comply with local regulations.Just as well the roads in OZ are crap.
Have a great day,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Conversions |
In a message dated 10/30/01 1:34:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
fmyers(at)qwest.net writes:
>
HI FRAN...........
There are no conversions for the 560 series airplanes (at least
not a conversion to a direct drive engine) and why on earth would you want to
change those great, geared engines anyway? This subject has been discussed
before but I want to through in my .002.
I am a believer in geared engines, even the old ones. Heres why. The
best way to make lots of reliable horse power from and engine is to give it
(the engine) a mechanical advantage over the propulsion machinery. Imagine
starting your car out in high gear all the time, well, that is what a direct
drive engine must do. I admit that a constant speed propeller will help
here, but it is not nearly the same.
If engineers had there way, all aircraft engines would be geared.
They ALWAYS outperform the direct drive counterparts, ALWAYS. Case in point.
It takes an additional 2 cylinders and an extra 180 cubic inches of
displacement (TIO-720 = 400HP) to make about the same direct drive horse
power as a geared engine (IGSO-540 = 380 HP). All turbine engines are
geared, all WW11 fighter engines were geared and all early transport
airplanes were, you guessed it, geared. I also believe that very soon geared
engines will be making a comeback. I just read in my latest AOPA magazine
(are your dues paid?? Shame on you) and the next big deal in aviation engines
are geared diesel aircraft engines. Even Mr. RPM saw the advantage and the
Orenda and Thunder engines were both geared.
The only, and I mean only disadvantage to a geared engine is the cost
to overhaul one. I am working on a way to keep that competitive with direct
drive versions for TCFG members, yes, it can be done. I admit that it takes
a bit more pilot skill to fly a geared engine, but that is true with every
system on a Commander, these are a pilots airplane and running a geared
engine is just part of the knowledge base necessary to fly these great old
airplanes.
Get you ME rating in someone else's airplane and then buy a geared
machine and enjoy all of the performance it offers you!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Gday all,
My Fall FGN arrived today!
Thankyou Capt jimbob for another great issue!
Cheers and beers
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Fairoaks arrival |
Hi All!
I knew it! I just knew who would be the first to get it. Well done, Wing
Commander, S5-CAI is indeed from Slovenia.
It had quite a nice colour scheme. If the pictures develop OK, I'll send a
.jpg to Chris.
Unusually, it was really bright & sunny over here yesterday, but quite a
chill wind. Won't last, of course, it'll soon be pouring down with rain
again. Oh to be in Oz!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
CloudCraft@aol
.com To: barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
cc: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
30/10/2001 Subject: Re: Fairoaks arrival
23:05
In a message dated 10/30/01 14:10:42 Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
Registration is S5-CAI.
Now, who knows what Country that's from? (I do, of course!). No prizes,
but
first correct entry wins the acclaim of the rest!
That's easy, Sir Barry.
Slovenia.
Ask us a hard question.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Myers <fmyers(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Commander Conversions Revisited |
Seems to be a lot of questions about why I would want an engine conversion.
This is a copy of an email I responded to a few minutes ago:
I didn't want to cause a argument. My motivation is the Gami fuel injectors
that provide the SAME amount of fuel to each cylinder. This means that all
the cylinders are making really close to the same power, reaching peak at
the same time. Today even with your bendix pressure carbs, set it and forget
it, some cylinders are get more fuel some less.
Don't believe me, next time your flying pull the mixture back. Can you pull
it all the way to idle cut off with smooth operation of the engine? Or at
some point does it get pretty rough? The roughness you feel isn't because of
lack of fuel. Its because different cylinders are producing different
horsepower's due to different fuel amounts.
If ALL cylinders are getting the same amount of fuel the engine will be
smooth all the way to idle cut off, Only the power produced would decrease.
The reason set and forget works is that most of the time TOO Much Fuel is
put into the cylinder. I realize this may be good - cooling. But in certain
times of engine operation you could actually be over cooking some cylinders.
Ever have to change a cylinder early? Look at it. Does it look burned up?
While not on geared engines, I have seen a lot.
The other huge advantage is a possible 15% fuel savings.
My two biggest desires is fuel injection, and direct drive engines so I can
do some engine out work. I can do without either but being an MEI Its
sometime fun to shut one down.
Read about GAMI's at http://www.gami.com or www.av-web.com and lookup under
SEARCH - "Articles by John Deakin".
The reason I ask is that the Bendix Pressure Carbs are kind of in the middle
of total Carb and total Fuel Injection.
All of what you wrote is exactly correct and I believe you 100%. But Imagine
installing the next GAMI product - FADEC (This is going to be somewhat
different than the ones produced by the engine companies). I honestly
believe this will give your engines the ability to have 3000 hour + TBO's.
Now that is worth investigating a few minutes. The questions about Lean of
Peak, that's a political debate I don't always want to get into but smooth
operation, even temps give my engines longer life - That's my motivation!
I have been reading your materials and find you most knowledgeable and
helpful. I am still considering a Commander for purchase, although I am
mired down in the financing stage. I am suffering from problems I had about
10 years ago.
Thanks
Fran
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Folting <amcuprcc(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Hello with some humor |
Gentlemen & Ladies
Been reading this e-mail for a while. Joined last summer as an associate member.
I sure do want to get one of these machines some day. I'm working on it.
Just an old retired airline type, still training in sims on the 757. I enjoy your
friendly banter so I'll pass one on. I thought it is in taste, considering.
Any one in San Diego have one of these machines. I sure would like to try one on.
Thanks
John Folting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | PILOTS FOR CHRIST |
HI JIM
I remember you were looking for a heater for your 560. Diana
from Aircraft heating 800-409-4328 just called me after reading the ad in the
FGN and said they have one in stock ready to go. Give her a call. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Conversions Revisited |
That wasn't an argument. You should bring up the S__p word.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fran Myers" <fmyers(at)qwest.net>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:06 AM
Subject: Commander Conversions Revisited
> Seems to be a lot of questions about why I would want an engine
conversion.
>
> This is a copy of an email I responded to a few minutes ago:
>
> I didn't want to cause a argument. My motivation is the Gami fuel
injectors
> that provide the SAME amount of fuel to each cylinder. This means that all
> the cylinders are making really close to the same power, reaching peak at
> the same time. Today even with your bendix pressure carbs, set it and
forget
> it, some cylinders are get more fuel some less.
>
> Don't believe me, next time your flying pull the mixture back. Can you
pull
> it all the way to idle cut off with smooth operation of the engine? Or at
> some point does it get pretty rough? The roughness you feel isn't because
of
> lack of fuel. Its because different cylinders are producing different
> horsepower's due to different fuel amounts.
> If ALL cylinders are getting the same amount of fuel the engine will be
> smooth all the way to idle cut off, Only the power produced would
decrease.
>
> The reason set and forget works is that most of the time TOO Much Fuel is
> put into the cylinder. I realize this may be good - cooling. But in
certain
> times of engine operation you could actually be over cooking some
cylinders.
> Ever have to change a cylinder early? Look at it. Does it look burned up?
> While not on geared engines, I have seen a lot.
>
> The other huge advantage is a possible 15% fuel savings.
>
> My two biggest desires is fuel injection, and direct drive engines so I
can
> do some engine out work. I can do without either but being an MEI Its
> sometime fun to shut one down.
>
> Read about GAMI's at http://www.gami.com or www.av-web.com and lookup
under
> SEARCH - "Articles by John Deakin".
>
> The reason I ask is that the Bendix Pressure Carbs are kind of in the
middle
> of total Carb and total Fuel Injection.
>
> All of what you wrote is exactly correct and I believe you 100%. But
Imagine
> installing the next GAMI product - FADEC (This is going to be somewhat
> different than the ones produced by the engine companies). I honestly
> believe this will give your engines the ability to have 3000 hour + TBO's.
> Now that is worth investigating a few minutes. The questions about Lean of
> Peak, that's a political debate I don't always want to get into but smooth
> operation, even temps give my engines longer life - That's my motivation!
>
> I have been reading your materials and find you most knowledgeable and
> helpful. I am still considering a Commander for purchase, although I am
> mired down in the financing stage. I am suffering from problems I had
about
> 10 years ago.
>
> Thanks
> Fran
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Conversions Revisited |
Nice article and not too far from the truth. A well configured, and
properly operating system as mine is has all the cylinders operating at a
very close temperatures.
When I even think about touching my mixture controls on my AC560, the
engines cough and stop, as if to say to me ... "WHY the heck did you do that
you idiot." There is no roughness at all.
As far as saving 15% fuel. I only burn 25 gal per hour, or about 12.5 to 13
per side as it is. My fuel consumption is a case of do I fly at 10k to
12.5k and true at 160 - 170kts, and burn 25gal per hour? or do I true out at
200kts and burn 43 gtal per hour. the choice of course is mine. P
personally prefer to set it at 55% to 60% instead of 75% to 85% power and
save a LOT of fuel.
Every airplane, infact EVERY mechanical device has its own unique
idiosyncrities. Even if they are all made at the same place on the same
day. They all have a slightly different way of behaving.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fran Myers" <fmyers(at)qwest.net>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:06 AM
Subject: Commander Conversions Revisited
> Seems to be a lot of questions about why I would want an engine
conversion.
>
> This is a copy of an email I responded to a few minutes ago:
>
> I didn't want to cause a argument. My motivation is the Gami fuel
injectors
> that provide the SAME amount of fuel to each cylinder. This means that all
> the cylinders are making really close to the same power, reaching peak at
> the same time. Today even with your bendix pressure carbs, set it and
forget
> it, some cylinders are get more fuel some less.
>
> Don't believe me, next time your flying pull the mixture back. Can you
pull
> it all the way to idle cut off with smooth operation of the engine? Or at
> some point does it get pretty rough? The roughness you feel isn't because
of
> lack of fuel. Its because different cylinders are producing different
> horsepower's due to different fuel amounts.
> If ALL cylinders are getting the same amount of fuel the engine will be
> smooth all the way to idle cut off, Only the power produced would
decrease.
>
> The reason set and forget works is that most of the time TOO Much Fuel is
> put into the cylinder. I realize this may be good - cooling. But in
certain
> times of engine operation you could actually be over cooking some
cylinders.
> Ever have to change a cylinder early? Look at it. Does it look burned up?
> While not on geared engines, I have seen a lot.
>
> The other huge advantage is a possible 15% fuel savings.
>
> My two biggest desires is fuel injection, and direct drive engines so I
can
> do some engine out work. I can do without either but being an MEI Its
> sometime fun to shut one down.
>
> Read about GAMI's at http://www.gami.com or www.av-web.com and lookup
under
> SEARCH - "Articles by John Deakin".
>
> The reason I ask is that the Bendix Pressure Carbs are kind of in the
middle
> of total Carb and total Fuel Injection.
>
> All of what you wrote is exactly correct and I believe you 100%. But
Imagine
> installing the next GAMI product - FADEC (This is going to be somewhat
> different than the ones produced by the engine companies). I honestly
> believe this will give your engines the ability to have 3000 hour + TBO's.
> Now that is worth investigating a few minutes. The questions about Lean of
> Peak, that's a political debate I don't always want to get into but smooth
> operation, even temps give my engines longer life - That's my motivation!
>
> I have been reading your materials and find you most knowledgeable and
> helpful. I am still considering a Commander for purchase, although I am
> mired down in the financing stage. I am suffering from problems I had
about
> 10 years ago.
>
> Thanks
> Fran
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello with some humor |
In a message dated 10/31/01 13:16:28 Pacific Standard Time, amcuprcc(at)home.com
writes:
> Any one in San Diego have one of these machines. I sure would like to try
> one on.
>
Hello, John!
Mosey up to Carlsbad airport and if you look at the parking area east of
Western Flight's ramp, you're bound to see one to three older Commanders
parked there.
Maybe the FBO can tell you who owns them and put you in touch.
Roy Everingham's Mr. RPM 680 FP is/was based at Gillespie Field and I
understand it's for sale. I think a few guys on this list could put you in
contact with the broker and you could wrangle a tour of the airplane.
Crown Air at Montgomery Field does a fair amount of Turbo Commander
maintenance, if you want to oogle those.
That's what I know about SAN area Commanders. Have fun!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hello with some humor |
Hi John et al!
They might want to check out Bin Fishin', Bin Shoppin' and Bin Flyin', too!
Welcome aboard John, but we might have woken Big Al up here.
Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Folting
To: Commanderchat
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:10 PM
Subject: Hello with some humor
Gentlemen & Ladies
Been reading this e-mail for a while. Joined last summer as an associate member.
I sure do want to get one of these machines some day. I'm working on it.
Just an old retired airline type, still training in sims on the 757. I enjoy
your friendly banter so I'll pass one on. I thought it is in taste, considering.
Any one in San Diego have one of these machines. I sure would like to try one
on.
Thanks
John Folting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Conversions Revisited |
In a message dated 10/31/01 5:17:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> You should bring up the S__p word.
>
OH NO!!! NOT THAT WORD!!!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | IGSO-540 oil leak |
I've been having a dialogue in the background with an AC-680-FL operator who
had a rather severe and not easy to detect oil leak.
By severe, it was in the area of 2+ gallons in a half hour flight. Oil was
everywhere and it looked pretty grim.
The happy news is that it was the air-oil separator that was sludged up and
crankcase pressure and oil had nowhere to go except the breathers.
We're passing this on because it follows the "do the easiest / cheapest fix
first" method of trouble shooting.
It could have just as easily been an epic tear-down the engine in search of a
leak, instead.
Nice ending to this story, isn't it?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello with some humor |
Judging from the number of appearances Big Al has made lately, I'd guess he's changed
his name to Bin Drinkin' Noname!
Al, where aaaaaaaaarrrre yyyyooooooouuuuuuuu!?
/john
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: Commanderchat
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: Hello with some humor
Hi John et al!
They might want to check out Bin Fishin', Bin Shoppin' and Bin Flyin', too!
Welcome aboard John, but we might have woken Big Al up here.
Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Folting
To: Commanderchat
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:10 PM
Subject: Hello with some humor
Gentlemen & Ladies
Been reading this e-mail for a while. Joined last summer as an associate member.
I sure do want to get one of these machines some day. I'm working on it.
Just an old retired airline type, still training in sims on the 757. I enjoy
your friendly banter so I'll pass one on. I thought it is in taste, considering.
Any one in San Diego have one of these machines. I sure would like to try one
on.
Thanks
John Folting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Conversions |
I admit that it takes a bit more pilot skill to fly a geared engine, but
that is true with every system on a Commander, these are a pilots airplane
and running a geared engine is just part of the knowledge base necessary to
fly these great old airplanes.
A relative neophytes perspective here...
I'm a 400TT pilot, with approx 100 ME time, most of which is in a geared
Commander. Most of the rest of my time is in a Nanchang CJ-6A, which is a
radial powered warbird - another geared motor. Granted radials are a bit
tougher than the HO engines, but you treat them the same. Folks, it just
ain't all that difficult. You just need to be conscious and pay attention
to your power changes. Flying behind, or in our case just slightly in front
of and between, geared motors is not voodoo or black magic. It simply
requires a little finesse and advanced planning.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Blowen in da wind |
Afternoon All,
It seems that mother nature is trying to prove that she has a since of humor. The
is a "storm" just to the south of us here in the not so sunny, very windy Florida
Keys that might be coming to visit! This has produced a new problem for
me that forces me to ask a rather stupid question, actually two. First, as some
of you might remember my 560 has a problem keeping it up. To put it bluntly,
I have flaccid flaps. There, I've come out of the closet and said it! A few
hours after engine shut down , they are down. Question--in the event of this storm
arriving, should I have the flaps removed from the plane to prevent damage
or will they take the "reverse" wind load of the wind blowing from behind the
airplane? You see it doesn't matter what direction I Face the airplane my luck
will dictate that the wind will blow from the opposite direction! Second--I
have no under wing tie downs. The FBO just chocks all three gear and ties the
mains just below the scissor link. Big deal! I don't think that is going to work
in a real "storm". 75 to 100 mph winds. Any suggestions from anyone.---No-there
is no hanger space available!! Already bin down that road!
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Keith wrote:
>The "one power lever" concept has yet to take off with pilots because we tend
>to like fussing with lots of dials and gauges, levers and knobs and switches and
>buttons.
I'll toss in my two cents on this topic...
The only aircraft FADEC systems I'm aware of (piston powered), don't
allow the pilot to configure different combinations of RPM/MAP. I
choose various combinations depending on the situation. Sometimes I
like to run 2200/26" for nice high-altitude cruises and other times
I'll take 2400/23" for the same power under different conditions.
I like to pull the RPM way back but leave the MAP up for long, in-route
decents (quiet, fuel efficient, keeps the CHTs up, and eliminates
ring flutter).
I don't think you can do any of the above with a FADEC system. You
get what the designers programmed in. Ever see the results of an
engine that has a lot of hours at only one RPM setting? The
counter-weight bushings dish out and will no longer work well at
any other RPM. Cylinders show specific wear patterns, various
fatigue forces are not well spread.
Don't take away my ability to operate my engine!
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Keith,
I think it's the same thinking as found in the SLR cameras.
Now you have to pay extra to get the manual settings. The pros want the ability
to manipulate their settings for a quality picture, but the masses prefer the
point and click as all of that other stuff is too complicated!
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blowen in da wind |
> john williams wrote:
> Any suggestions from anyone.
Two possibilities John:
1) Bring her here to OK and I'll make sure she's well taken-care of.
2) make two simple "gust-locks" and put them on the inboard
edge of the flap.
Honestly, I don't have any idea what reverse load it would take
to damage the flaps, but given the pull-linkage arrangement, I
think you are correct to be concerned.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George J. Yundt III <yundt(at)speakeasy.net> |
If you really want to read up on the features and benefits of a true Piston
Engine FADEC, I would suggest that you check out Teledyne Continental
Motors' subsidiary Aerosance. The web site address is:
http://www.tcmlink.com/aerosance/index.html
While the most recent turbojets and turbofan engines have had FADEC's for
about 10 years (used on military, airline and corporate aircraft), the
concept has ample application and other benefits not yet mentioned in this
chat room discussion. As I understand it, it will be available from
Continental for both new aircraft (like the Baron) and for retrofit in less
than a year. Extensive testing and certification work has already been
done, and the first flight was back in 1999.
One engine that would benefit mightily from having a FADEC is my 685's
GTSIO-520-K's!!!!!
George Yundt
----- Original Message -----
From: <JETPAUL(at)aol.com>
To: ;
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: FADEC
> Well JB dont forget the other 2 modes of flight. Yes there is T/O, but
then
> there is CLIMB Power. With a FADEC you could set it, and forget it. There
> would be nothing to fiddle with. As the altitude increased you would get
> auto leaning, increased manifold pressure (as allowed) fuel flow
adjustments
> due to airspeed increase,adjustments for the lower temperature, and
changes
> for the air density.
>
> Then you have DESCENT Power. If the system is designed for a geared
engine
> it could be built to have an in Flight Idle Stop. That would serve to not
> allow the manifold pressure for any given A/S or RPM to be reduced to the
> point that the prop was able to drive the engine, thereby eliminating
> premature gear box failure.
>
> All of this is just really a pipe dream at this point. If they actually
build
> a FADEC for the NEW GENERATION engines, I doubt we will ever see one STC'd
> for a geared engine. At the same time fiddling with all those things in
> climb and cruise is what makes us pilots right??
>
> Hey Big Al??? Jump in here any time??
>
> O.K. I'll do it for him........If your attitude toward FADEC is.....If
you
> cant run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.....You might be a RNCP.
>
> I actually got to meet Big Al on Monday. He was coming through Atlanta
and
> stopped at Jim Crunkeltons strip to see the Commanders, the
> Hangar/House/Sheet Metal Shop/Paint Booth/RV-8 Assembly Plant. He was a
> delight, and might just know as many jokes as Crunk Sr. I dont yet, I
have
> been around for almost 8 years, but Big Al kept up for 4 straight hours,
joke
> for joke.
>
> Paul Reason
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 11/1/01 11:52:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
yundt(at)speakeasy.net writes:
> One engine that would benefit mightily from having a FADEC is my 685's
>
HI GEORGE.......
What the 685 really needs is a propeller change. I wish it were
possible to use the long turbine blades or even the blades I use for the
GSO-480s (93"). The airplane is spectacular and amazingly quiet. The
engines are plenty good, they just forgot to bolt an adequate propeller to
the thing. I have talked with Morris Kernick about this, but there are just
to few airplanes to make it worth while, to bad. You have a great machine.
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commanders in Africa (6) |
Nico,
Now you know why people like Turbos (MR. RPM 500) or Superchargers (680's).
You forgot to add the temperature factor.
I learned to fly in Denver. There was one hot day that I took off in a C150
and was not able to get to pattern altitude of 700' over the 5400' field
altitude. It took full power all the way until I back over the runway. I
do not think I reached 400' above the ground. It only happened once.
That is the day I joined the "More Power Majority".
After 25 hours, I changed to C182 to finish my private rating. That was 35
years ago.
It is possible to get a density altitude of 10,000' at 5,280 above sea
level.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com [mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:44 AM
To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com; commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: Commanders in Africa (6)
In a message dated 11/1/01 2:47:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
That's like taking off with about 70% power, no?
YES!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 11/1/01 2:54:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> Don't take away my ability to operate my engine!
>
A...M.....E......N...................jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)inreach.com> |
Hi Group,
I have been a member since last year and am ready to jump from my 172
to a 680s...
has anyone got any info on a 680 at Daytona Beach...I have put a deposit on
it and expect to take a close look around the middle of this month.
It's N60GS serial# 680-593-230.
Any info would be greatly apreciated.
Thanks'
CRAIG
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Schuermann [mailto:chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:54 AM
Cc: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: FADEC
Keith wrote:
>The "one power lever" concept has yet to take off with pilots because we
tend
>to like fussing with lots of dials and gauges, levers and knobs and
switches and
>buttons.
I'll toss in my two cents on this topic...
The only aircraft FADEC systems I'm aware of (piston powered), don't
allow the pilot to configure different combinations of RPM/MAP. I
choose various combinations depending on the situation. Sometimes I
like to run 2200/26" for nice high-altitude cruises and other times
I'll take 2400/23" for the same power under different conditions.
I like to pull the RPM way back but leave the MAP up for long, in-route
decents (quiet, fuel efficient, keeps the CHTs up, and eliminates
ring flutter).
I don't think you can do any of the above with a FADEC system. You
get what the designers programmed in. Ever see the results of an
engine that has a lot of hours at only one RPM setting? The
counter-weight bushings dish out and will no longer work well at
any other RPM. Cylinders show specific wear patterns, various
fatigue forces are not well spread.
Don't take away my ability to operate my engine!
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commanders in Africa (6) |
Nico,
Radar, C-III autopilot. That is good.
I also notice the instruments in front of the pilot are not in standard
locations.
Lot of airplane, but it is over there.
Now you fly it here. 15,000 miles????
Major adventure.
Fresh C of A.
Then how much do you have in it?
OR is the reason you want to buy it there, is to FLY it here?
Does this qualify as a flying project?
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
:
This bird is also for sale. It is a 500B with good hours but moderate
electronics. Priced at about $110K. Need to check with owner should there be
serious inquiries.
Looks like a lot of airplane for 110K jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ROSIE O'DONNELL: 'I LOVE BUSH!' |
Now all we need is Babs!
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU NOV 01 2001 16:35:09 ET XXXXX
ROSIE O'DONNELL: 'I LOVE BUSH!'
Talkshow host and ardent Democratic activist Rosie O'Donnell stunned Los
Angeles radio listeners Thursday morning by declaring she's changed her
opinion of President Bush.
"I love him now!" O'Donnell told KRLA-AM's Dennis Prager.
O'Donnell said she even got to Yankee Stadium an hour early for a World
Series game so that she could videotape Bush!
'I brought a videocamera and my six year old son and no security so that my
son could see the president," said O'Donnell.
"We left at 6 o'clock in order to do that. And since September 11, I have had
nothing but accolades for the job he has done for this nation... I am in full
support of the President."
O'Donnell added: "Honey, I love him now! He is our President. We are at war."
MORE
Filed By Matt Drudge
Reports are moved when circumstances warrant
http://www.drudgereport.com for updates
(c)DRUDGE REPORT 2001
Not for reproduction without permission of the author
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBC1024(at)aol.com <BBC1024(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | GERALDO JUMPS TO FOX NEWS AS WAR CORRESPONDENT |
Uggghhhh! How could they possibly think their key audience wants to see this
sniveling liberal turncoat? At least they're parking him in Afghanistan and
not at an anchor desk!
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU NOV 01 2001 16:35:09 ET XXXXX
GERALDO JUMPS TO FOX NEWS AS WAR CORRESPONDENT, FOLDS CNBC'CAST
FOX News Channel signed Geraldo Rivera to be a war correspondent, announced
Roger Ailes, Chairman and CEO of FOX News on Thursday. Rivera folds his
CNBC'cast.
MORE
In making the announcement, Ailes said, "Geraldo's years of experience as an
anchor and hard-hitting investigative reporter will enhance FOX News'
international coverage of the war on terrorism. He will put his unique talent
to work for us in the hot spots of the world. We are delighted he is joining
FOX News."
Rivera's last appearance on CNBC will be November 16th. On November 19th, he
will be immediately dispatched to the Afghanistan region to join Steve
Harrigan, Amy Kellogg and other FOX News correspondents in the area to
provide live reports for FNC.
"I'm a reporter," says Rivera, "and America's fight against terror is the
biggest story of our times. And as much as I loved my CNBC program, I can't
stay anchored to that desk any longer. So it is my honor to rejoin Roger
Ailes, and become part of the excellent team he has established at Fox News
Channel. I hope to be able to report all aspects of our nation's do or die
fight against terror."
Rivera is a veteran foreign correspondent, who has been on the frontlines in
virtually every conflict since 1973. He has expertise in the Afghanistan
region, covering the international drug wars of tribal territories in both
Pakistan and Afghanistan. His vast war experience began with the violent coup
in Chile and the Yom Kippur War to the civil wars in Guatemala, the
Philippines and Nicaragua to the ethnic conflicts in Lebanon (1980-83) and
Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo (1998-1999). This year, he went to Colombia to
cover the country's civil war.
Developing...
Filed By Matt Drudge
Reports are moved when circumstances warrant
http://www.drudgereport.com for updates
(c)DRUDGE REPORT 2001
Not for reproduction without permission of the author
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Laxson <wlaxson(at)corecom.net> |
I believe the direction of FADEC development for piston engines goe
beyond just replacing the throttle/prop/mixture conttols. It includes
the concept of individual spark advance and fuel metering to each piston
in the engine across the entire range of power/temperature/altitude
variables. TO power excess fuel doesn't need to be run through the
engine to cool on a worst case basis but instead on an individualized
basis.
Detonation, CHT, EGT, power, mixture is real-time controlled at each
cylinder to meet the desired flight regime. Data can be stored for
trend monitoring after the flight.
Whats not to like about better fuel economy, longer engine life, digital
engine trend tracking, etc.
William Laxson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blowen in da wind |
John,
Here's what I've learned in the 2 years I've owned my 500- B:
1) anything more than I think 1/2 flaps provides no lift, only drag. Morris Kernick
(Commander Services) has suggested that leaving the flaps all the way down
in very windy conditions is added insurance that the airplane won't fly if it
gets really gusty. He's never been concerned about wind loads hurting the flaps
while they're down. With flaps up I had 60+ mph gusts bump the airplane off
its chocks and move it about 2 ft. With the flaps all the way down in the same
conditions, it stayed planted for two days.
2) I also tie my mains below the scissors. Morris has also recommended that I NEVER
tie the tail. Because of that huge vertical stabilizer, the airplane WILL
weathervane if it gets really gusty. That's no problem if the airplane is turning
around the two tied (and monstrously strong) mains, but if the tail is tied,
it will either damage the tailcone, or more likely, yank the rope/chain right
out of the ground (I've actually SEEN that one happen!).
3) I would neither chock nor tie the nosegear. It's the most delicate part of AC
landing gear and will break. Leave it free. Funny, while ferrying a Commander
the other day I had a negative nose gear light when I was getting ready to land.......but
that's another story.
4) Get the pressure in that accumulator checked. You need to be able to keep it
up ;-)!
5) WING COMMANDER GORDON, JIMBOB, ET. AL., Please let me know if you agree/disagree
with what I've been taught!
Good luck John,
/The other John
----- Original Message -----
From: john williams
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:53 AM
Subject: Blowen in da wind
Afternoon All,
It seems that mother nature is trying to prove that she has a since of humor.
The is a "storm" just to the south of us here in the not so sunny, very windy
Florida Keys that might be coming to visit! This has produced a new problem for
me that forces me to ask a rather stupid question, actually two. First, as
some of you might remember my 560 has a problem keeping it up. To put it bluntly,
I have flaccid flaps. There, I've come out of the closet and said it! A few
hours after engine shut down , they are down. Question--in the event of this
storm arriving, should I have the flaps removed from the plane to prevent damage
or will they take the "reverse" wind load of the wind blowing from behind
the airplane? You see it doesn't matter what direction I Face the airplane my
luck will dictate that the wind will blow from the opposite direction! Second--I
have no under wing tie downs. The FBO just chocks all three gear and ties the
mains just below the scissor link. Big deal! I don't think that is going to
work in a real "storm". 75 to 100 mph winds. Any suggestions from anyone.---No-there
is no hanger space available!! Already bin down that road!
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blowen in da wind |
John,
Do the same thing you do with the rudder. Two pieces of plywood and a bolt
will do. You can get fancy by putting rug on the wood first.
At the Home Depot, I saw some spring clamps in the tool department that
would work as well. I saw a mechanic use some spring clips on ailerons to
rig an airplane.
You must also remember to add the rubber chicken or remove before flight
tag that beat up you paint job. I like the rubber chicken thing like JB
does.
There is no pressure on the system pulling the flaps down when the system is
at rest. Pressure is leaking past a valve and the flaps are sagging down
because of their own weight.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: john williams [mailto:keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:53 AM
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Blowen in da wind
Afternoon All,
It seems that mother nature is trying to prove that she has a since of
humor. The is a "storm" just to the south of us here in the not so sunny,
very windy Florida Keys that might be coming to visit! This has produced a
new problem for me that forces me to ask a rather stupid question, actually
two. First, as some of you might remember my 560 has a problem keeping it
up. To put it bluntly, I have flaccid flaps. There, I've come out of the
closet and said it! A few hours after engine shut down , they are down.
Question--in the event of this storm arriving, should I have the flaps
removed from the plane to prevent damage or will they take the "reverse"
wind load of the wind blowing from behind the airplane? You see it doesn't
matter what direction I Face the airplane my luck will dictate that the wind
will blow from the opposite direction! Second--I have no under wing tie
downs. The FBO just chocks all three gear and ties the mains just below the
scissor link. Big deal! I don't think that is going to work in a real
"storm". 75 to 100 mph winds. Any suggestions from anyone.---No-there is no
hanger space available!! Already bin down that road!
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
I'm in complete agreement with Chris! Not to mention, I sometimes like to
push the power WAY up, burn A LOT of fuel, and REALLY make time! 3 sets of
levers = knots on demand. One lever = major compromise, in my book.
Plus, why waste all that expensive Commander training? ;-)
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: FADEC
>
> Keith wrote:
> >The "one power lever" concept has yet to take off with pilots because we
tend
> >to like fussing with lots of dials and gauges, levers and knobs and
switches and
> >buttons.
>
> I'll toss in my two cents on this topic...
> The only aircraft FADEC systems I'm aware of (piston powered), don't
> allow the pilot to configure different combinations of RPM/MAP. I
> choose various combinations depending on the situation. Sometimes I
> like to run 2200/26" for nice high-altitude cruises and other times
> I'll take 2400/23" for the same power under different conditions.
> I like to pull the RPM way back but leave the MAP up for long, in-route
> decents (quiet, fuel efficient, keeps the CHTs up, and eliminates
> ring flutter).
> I don't think you can do any of the above with a FADEC system. You
> get what the designers programmed in. Ever see the results of an
> engine that has a lot of hours at only one RPM setting? The
> counter-weight bushings dish out and will no longer work well at
> any other RPM. Cylinders show specific wear patterns, various
> fatigue forces are not well spread.
>
> Don't take away my ability to operate my engine!
>
> Chris Schuermann
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deborah Looman <whiteslave2(at)home.com> |
My two cents as to the variables involved.
Fuel injected/turbo engines will benefit far more from a FADEC than normally
aspirated engines because of the much more precise control over fuel burn,
right?
T/O - where we burn the most fuel - would benefit from precise control.
FADEC in climb, where you are constantly changing pressure as you go up in
altitude, would result in better fuel economy. Same thing, although to a
lesser extent in cruise, where you are flying into different barometric
pressures all the time. This prinicipal again applies on descent.
Some questions are, how much fuel would be saved? How many hours a year is
the aircraft operated? How reliable is the system? In other words, what is
the cost/benefit relationship?
Also, as for WCG's suggestion to keep levers in line with guages and vice
versa.....HERE, HERE! It is not that way in 680E and took some getting used
to. In a pinch it's just an added level of safety that might save .2 sec,
that might keep that near miss from being a collision.
Barry Hancock
Precision Flight Networks
(949) 300-5510
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blowen in da wind |
In a message dated 11/01/01 14:10:44 Pacific Standard Time,
keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Any suggestions from anyone.---No-there is no hanger space available!!
>
Fly away, my boy. Fly!
Can't give you the technical answer on reverse wind loads; I don't know that
anyone involved with the aircraft's construction has ever been asked that.
I was talking with one of the members of the Toyota distributor's flight
department in Ft. Lauderdale yesterday. They have a very comprehensive and
formal aircraft evacuation plan.
Is there some reason you are unable to fly your Commander out?
As far as tie down, the landing gear is really it -- even the maintenance
manuals show this as the way to moor the aircraft.
My only hope is that they don't wrap chains around the strut (chrome part)
and mar it, thus tearing up your "O" rings next gear cycle.
If chain is all they have, see if you can find some old fire hose, slit it
down the edge and make a "slip cover" for the struts to guard against chain
or rope damage.
Do you know the trick about putting spoilers on top of the wings to prevent
lift? I've seen everything from 2x4s to old tires lashed to the tops of
wings to keep them from doing what they're designed to do when relative wind
hits them.
Old jungle trick. I applies to swamps, islands or anything else that wanders
into the track of a typhoon. Errrr, hurricane. Sorry.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blowen in da wind |
HI JOHN.........
A.. move it inland
B.. Using a couple of pieces of 1"x6" and some ready bolt, create a couple of
gust locks that will also hold the ailerons.
C make certain the rudder is well locked
D. sleep in the plane and pump up the flaps as needed.
Good Luck................capt jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
I was down at GAMI last year and saw their FADEC system work.
One major destructive thing about high horsepower engines in aviation is
detonation.
It can tare up an engine in no time. It is caused by small changes in
mixture or changes in the timing of the stark event.
The FADEC system controls the start event and mixture to maintain optima
conditions.
The question is do you want automatic control over propeller RPM??
With a turbo charger, sometimes you want to lower RPM and maintain a higher
MP. With the All-in-one lever, you loose some control. The information on
the Teledyne web page said nothing about controlling propeller speed except
to sensors for engine speed.
On the TSIO-520-K, this could be a good thing on 685's for engine life.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
One engine that would benefit mightily from having a FADEC is my 685's
GTSIO-520-K's!!!!!
HI GEORGE.......
What the 685 really needs is a propeller change. I wish it were
possible to use the long turbine blades or even the blades I use for the
GSO-480s (93"). The airplane is spectacular and amazingly quiet. The
engines are plenty good, they just forgot to bolt an adequate propeller to
the thing. I have talked with Morris Kernick about this, but there are just
to few airplanes to make it worth while, to bad. You have a great machine.
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Josh Garfield <JGarfie1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | 1959 AC 560E N3846C #709 - Droopy Flaps. |
Dear Commander King,
Another question from a rookie commander owner. The current owner my commander
(I will be a 1/3 partner) says... It is "normal" for the flaps to droop down after
sitting for 3 or 4 days or a week due to loss of pressure in the hydraulic
system. Is this true? Or is it a red flag? The system seems to pump up fine
with 30 or so pumps.
Josh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
Damn Crunk, I wrote 4 paragraphs trying to say that!!!
An SLR camera, makes sense though!!!
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commanders in Africa (6) |
I'll drink to that Tylor!!!
I learned to fly in a 2 seat Gruman Yankee. I still remember the hand made
placard on the glare shield. [Max usefull load with full fuel 252 LBS]. One
day my dad and I took off and only had about 125 FT/MIN climb back around at
full throttle on a 90 something degree day.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FADEC Foo Duc Fud Dud |
> The reason I fly a Commander is to yank shove and push on those six big
levers.
I love to hear the change in pitch and feel the vibration as I advance or
retard the lever of my choosing. I like to tweak them in flight untill the
plane feels just right and hums the sound I want to hear. This may cost me a
few hours inengine life, a knot here and there, or a gallon og gas or two
but I dont want no stinking computer doing the job that I climbed int the
COCKPIT (a place where men are men) to do.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1959 AC 560E N3846C #709 - Droopy Flaps. |
You mean there are Commanders where the falps don't droop?
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Josh Garfield
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 8:22 PM
Subject: 1959 AC 560E N3846C #709 - Droopy Flaps.
Dear Commander King,
Another question from a rookie commander owner. The current owner my commander
(I will be a 1/3 partner) says... It is "normal" for the flaps to droop down
after sitting for 3 or 4 days or a week due to loss of pressure in the hydraulic
system. Is this true? Or is it a red flag? The system seems to pump up
fine with 30 or so pumps.
Josh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blowen in da wind |
In a message dated 11/01/01 18:46:15 Pacific Standard Time, john(at)vormbaum.com
writes:
> 5) WING COMMANDER GORDON, JIMBOB, ET. AL., Please let me know if you
>
It all sounded like good advice/knowledge to me!
I'll take this opportunity to add that the Commander nose wheel has very
little weight on it when the aircraft is parked.
Thus, the nose will jump a chock easily. Chock the mains!!!!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blowen in da wind |
In a message dated 11/1/01 8:57:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> If chain is all they have, see if you can find some old fire hose, slit it
> down the edge and make a "slip cover" for the struts to guard against chain
>
Check out the first FGN. I described a way to fabricate tie down chains to
carry with you. warped in plastic hose for just that reason. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Tylor,
From what I understand, detonation is temperature-induced. In GA, that means altitude-induced
or leaning-induced, since the combustion environment gets HOT
when there's less air or fuel to cool it.
I don't know about the Continentals, but Lycomings (at least the direct-drive models)
seem to be pretty lenient when it comes to detonation. Personal experience
has taught me that you can yank on the red levers as hard as you want, as
long as the power levels are at 75% and below. While I was learning (that means
all the real-life experience *after* initial training) to fly my airplane, I
unconsciously set power settings that should have resulted in detonation......and
I can only assume they didn't, since I've got 1,400+ hrs. on each engine
now (well, 350 hrs. on each from me) with compressions all rock-solid and not
one cylinder replaced. When set at 75% and below, all you get when you lean hard
on the "reds" is a severe (and sometimes sudden) reduction in power output.
Of course, I've never gone balls-to-the-wall at low altitude and given a healthy
yank on the reds...
I guess my point is, it seems to me that you have to work pretty hard on the Lycs
to get detonation to occur. Based on that experience, I question the justification
for the FADEC expenditure compared to a well-educated pilot....and in
some circumstances, even a poorly educated one ;-).
Also, after hanging out on many GA forums, winning the detonation argument has
become one of those elusive goals similar to the shock cooling argument....everyone
has "seen an email somewhere" or has "a friend of a friend" or "heard down
at the FBO" or "heard some guy who had it happen" talk about the perils of
detonation & shock cooling, but I've yet to hear a FIRST-HAND post by someone
who's had it happen on a HO Lyc. Even a turbo'ed one. Even a supercharged one.
I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers....in fact, if this has happened to YOU (that
means ALL OF YOU!), please tell me, and share with the group the REAL dangers!
I'd love to become a better pilot by learning from your experiences. It's
just that in 350 hours of Aero Commander time, I can't seem to make either of
these things happen (not that I'm complaining ;-).
/John
PS: If you don't hear from me for a while, it's because I can't afford an Internet
account, being that I suddenly need to replace many of those 12 cylinders
on my airplane :-).
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; yundt(at)speakeasy.net ; JETPAUL(at)aol.com ; commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: FADEC
I was down at GAMI last year and saw their FADEC system work.
One major destructive thing about high horsepower engines in aviation is detonation.
It can tare up an engine in no time. It is caused by small changes in mixture
or changes in the timing of the stark event.
The FADEC system controls the start event and mixture to maintain optima conditions.
The question is do you want automatic control over propeller RPM??
With a turbo charger, sometimes you want to lower RPM and maintain a higher MP.
With the All-in-one lever, you loose some control. The information on the
Teledyne web page said nothing about controlling propeller speed except to sensors
for engine speed.
On the TSIO-520-K, this could be a good thing on 685's for engine life.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
One engine that would benefit mightily from having a FADEC is my 685's
GTSIO-520-K's!!!!!
HI GEORGE.......
What the 685 really needs is a propeller change. I wish it were
possible to use the long turbine blades or even the blades I use for the GSO-480s
(93"). The airplane is spectacular and amazingly quiet. The engines are
plenty good, they just forgot to bolt an adequate propeller to the thing. I have
talked with Morris Kernick about this, but there are just to few airplanes
to make it worth while, to bad. You have a great machine. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FADEC Foo Duc Fud Dud |
Milt, not to be sexist, but someone (ahem, WCG) on this list taught me to be
politically correct....and mentioned that when the crew is female, it's not
a cockpit, it's a Box Office....
/J
PS: I'll probably get shot down (literally) for even sending this email....
----- Original Message -----
From: "N414C" <N414C(at)cableone.net>
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: FADEC Foo Duc Fud Dud
>
> > The reason I fly a Commander is to yank shove and push on those six big
> levers.
> I love to hear the change in pitch and feel the vibration as I advance or
> retard the lever of my choosing. I like to tweak them in flight untill the
> plane feels just right and hums the sound I want to hear. This may cost me
a
> few hours inengine life, a knot here and there, or a gallon og gas or two
> but I dont want no stinking computer doing the job that I climbed int the
> COCKPIT (a place where men are men) to do.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FADEC Foo Duc Fud Dud |
Heck,
It took more than 1 crappy message to shoot Phil Hackett down. But then
again he was a politically correct kind of guy. It is a pretty scary thought
that we could be replaced by a computer and it sounds like Fadec is pretty
good and close.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: FADEC Foo Duc Fud Dud
> Milt, not to be sexist, but someone (ahem, WCG) on this list taught me to
be
> politically correct....and mentioned that when the crew is female, it's
not
> a cockpit, it's a Box Office....
>
> /J
>
> PS: I'll probably get shot down (literally) for even sending this
email....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "N414C" <N414C(at)cableone.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 6:24 PM
> Subject: Re: FADEC Foo Duc Fud Dud
>
>
> >
> > > The reason I fly a Commander is to yank shove and push on those six
big
> > levers.
> > I love to hear the change in pitch and feel the vibration as I advance
or
> > retard the lever of my choosing. I like to tweak them in flight untill
the
> > plane feels just right and hums the sound I want to hear. This may cost
me
> a
> > few hours inengine life, a knot here and there, or a gallon og gas or
two
> > but I dont want no stinking computer doing the job that I climbed int
the
> > COCKPIT (a place where men are men) to do.
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
It should be 680F, XB-CQH for $90,000.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1959 AC 560E N3846C #709 - Droopy Flaps. |
Hey Josh. We talked about doopy flaps about a month ago. But it's a cronic
condition on these old birds and worth talking about.
I flew a '64 model 500a that had flaps that would stay up for 3 to 4 months
with only about 1/2 inch of droop, but that airplane only had 2800 hrs total
time.
Jim Crunkelton totally rebuilt the hydraulic system on his '52 model 520
(serial #39)
and now his are the same, with no Viagra involved!!. But when he bought it
they started down when the left engine was shut down!!
If you are getting a few days out of the flaps being able to "keep it up",
then your system is pretty tight.
Try this and see if there is a difference over a few days.
Leave the flap selector in the Nuetral (OFF) position, instead of Up and see
if they stay up longer. This position of the flap selector is seldom used,
and the o-rings are probably in better shape. The selector is the most
common culprit of "FLACID" flaps.
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Blowin in da wind |
Hope our new friend in the keys got himself and family out. Looks like they are
going to get beat up pretty bad by the northern edge of the storm.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 680F at Carlsbad/radome |
Back when I was first looking for a Twin I saw that radome on a couple of Cessna
320s one was Canadian the other Mexican.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: 680F at Carlsbad
Hi David, Tylor et al!
Took a look at the photos on the Controller.com website (aircraft.com) for this
beastie, serial 680F-969-27, currently registered as XB-CQH.
Interestingly, the advert mentions the 'N' number of N680F, but this is currently
assigned to another 680F, serial 959-23 !!
Serial 969 has been in Mexico for over 20 years. Before it left the USA in April
1981, there were no Forms 337 covering the installation of a either a radome,
nor the winglets. As David said "The radar nose isn't like anything I've ever
seen here...", but could possibly be a McMillan 7601X, more of which were
fitted to 680Fs than any other model Commander. The winglets don't appear to be
Aerodyne (Commander-Aero), too tall & squarish?
What a pity. The 680F seems, from chat on the list, to be a good aeroplane. Anybody
care to give it some TLC?
Thanks for the feed-back David.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Maytag
To: Tylor Hall ; CloudCraft(at)aol.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Hello with some humor
Tylor,
I must say the airplane was better than some in some respects. The interior
was ok and the panel was ok although the panel looks a hell of a lot better
in the picture. The paint on the panel didn't look good up close. The landing
gear was removed and painted and the bungees even had some life left in them.
The main problem was that it had been on its belly at least twice and the repairs
were atrocious. The skin was just hacked out and scab patched. Much of
the skin around the nose still had some significant scrape marks on it.
There were some other terrible repairs around the cowling. I'm talking 5/32
Checker Auto pop rivets!
The tops of the horizontals were bashed in maybe worse than most. I wouldn't
be surprised if the skins up there had cracks where they are folded over the
spars.
Another biggie is the nose wheel. When I gave a good tug on the steering actuator
it revealed a frightening amount of slop in the main trunion bushings
and there was a very distinct oil canning somewhere that I couldn't find.
There were some recent hoses, both oil and hydraulic, in the wheel well which
is good but they looked suspiciously like automotive hoses.
There is no heater installed.
The engines had just been overhauled in Mexico but the cowlings were full of
oil. Who knows what went into those engines? They may be good but, they may
be bad.
Since the airplane is Mexican and would need to get C of A here there are some
significant worries as far as I'm concerned. I didn't see any logbooks (because
the guy just couldn't seem to find the time to meet me) but he said they
are all in Spanish and, as of last week, only went back to 1982. I don't know
an IA that would sign off those sheet metal repairs. The radar nose isn't
like anything I've ever seen here and it is riveted on.
In short, I wouldn't want to be the guy trying to get that airplane certified.
I think it will be a big job to say the least probably involving a lot of
repair work of repair work. Maybe after a thorough log book translation and
review, and a 55% price reduction... maybe.
Probably more info than anyone cared to know, but there's my report.
Regards,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: David Maytag ; CloudCraft(at)aol.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: Hello with some humor
David,
How bad is the 680F, ZS-MFS that they are asking $90,000 for??? The photos
do look good.
I am truly interested in what you think is not right about this aircraft??
Not meeting you there on an appointment is totally inexcusable. I know it
is fun to fly the Helio, but.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
Well gang,
I just got back from Carlsbad and I am sad to say it was another wasted trip.
I went to look at that Mexican 680F that looks so nice in the pictures and
well, it's another tired old abused flyable project. I flew my Helio all the
way from Arizona and the guy selling it didn't even have the common courtesy
to show up and meet me. Some people!
Sorry I can't report on the 680E sitting there, I bumped into a friend of
mine that works there and I was so disgusted with the F I just had to walk away.
Anyway, the search continues....
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: Hello with some humor
In a message dated 10/31/01 13:16:28 Pacific Standard Time, amcuprcc(at)home.com
writes:
Any one in San Diego have one of these machines. I sure would like to try
one on.
Hello, John!
Mosey up to Carlsbad airport and if you look at the parking area east of
Western Flight's ramp, you're bound to see one to three older Commanders parked
there.
Maybe the FBO can tell you who owns them and put you in touch.
Roy Everingham's Mr. RPM 680 FP is/was based at Gillespie Field and I understand
it's for sale. I think a few guys on this list could put you in contact
with the broker and you could wrangle a tour of the airplane.
Crown Air at Montgomery Field does a fair amount of Turbo Commander maintenance,
if you want to oogle those.
That's what I know about SAN area Commanders. Have fun!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George J. Yundt III <yundt(at)speakeasy.net> |
| Subject: | Blowen in da wind--Part 2 |
----- Original Message -----
From: George J. Yundt III
To: John D Williams
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Blowen in da wind--Part 2
Mr. Williams,
I recently purchased a Commander 685, which was absent a tow bar / tail stand
in the lose equipment. I found that my friends at Byerly Aviation (a commander
authorized service center) had two (I believe they were actually made for the
690 and were included as original equipment) that were in good (cosmetic and
mechanical) shape and they were willing to sell....I purchased one of the two
for $250. I feel that this was a bargain when you see the quality of this thing.
This device has a quick-set lever to affix it to, or remove it from the nose wheel
easily with one hand, a large "T" handled screw to lock the adjustable extension
length (to adjust it's overall length for either towing or to make the
length correct to use as a tail stand), it is made very well, heavily chromed,
has rubber snubbers at the tip ends, has aircraft quality hardware locking pins
to pass through the top of the tow barhandle & and the aircraft's tail tie
down to provide the tail-stand function.
I have made one small modification to the thing myself however: I enlarged (drilled
out) the hole in the locking pin so I could place a small combination padlock
to keep the from being "borrowed" while hanging from my tail on an unobserved
ramp.
You may wish to give Paul Boiarsky (proun: Borasky) a call at Byerly Aircraft Sales
if you wish to purchase this OEM piece of equipment that should work well
with ANY Twin or Turbo Commander. Tell him I gave you his phone # (309-697-5500).
George J. Yundt III
any questions: 708-349-2121
P.S. Another thing I did was to get the large SS tie-down eyelet-bolts (I believe
I paid $100) that can be installed on the Main Landing Gear just below the
polished strut. Without this many (especially older) Commanders don't have a
proper place to tie the main's down without wrapping ropes (or worse yet..chains)
around the struts, scissors or whatever else. This, in concert with the
tail stand, internal control locks, and an external rudder gust lock, and chocks
for all three wheels should be effective enough to get you through all but
the very worst effects of a hurricane or tornado.
----- Original Message -----
From: John D Williams
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 5:21 AM
Subject: Blowen in da wind--Part 2
Morning Friends,
I want to say thank you to all of you out there that responded to my questions
about getting the airplane ready for this "storm". Good news--I got the plane
north to Sebring ( @155nm) yesterday. I should be well out of the "wind field"
. As a precaution, I did install external gust locks on everything that moved!
Its tied well with all three wheels chocked and the trim moved to the nose
down position. I don't think were going to take a direct hit down here now. Looks
like the storm is moving more east so we'll just get brushed. It's been blowing
20 to 30 for the past 2 days so most of the smaller planes are still at
the airport. I wish them all the best of luck.
This "tail brace " that I've read about here for the past couple exchanges. Is
it a commercially available item or is it custom fabricated?
Thanks
October 04, 2001 - November 04, 2001
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ag