Commander-Archive.digest.vol-aj
December 12, 2001 - January 09, 2002
myself. My name is David Matthews. I am a Software Engineering Consultant
by trade, and an Instrument-Rated Private Pilot for fun. I am based in
North Alabama, and am obviously interested in Twin Commanders! I want to
learn from this group's experiences in hopes of becoming a Twin Commander
owner soon.
Regards,
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/12/01 11:46:11 Pacific Standard Time,
TILLMAN333(at)aol.com writes:
> I NEED FREE ADVISE...THE BEST TRAINING FACILATY?
Two choices, Gary.
FlightSaftey in Bethany, Oklahoma is always good.
Or, Quick Turn in Dallas. Quick Turn is the turbo prop side of SimuFlite and
although their simulator is non-motion, it's wrap around visuals give all the
sensation of flight.
I got a demo at Quick Turn and was very impressed. Their price and schedule
will be more competitive than FlightSafety.
web site: QuickTurn, a Division
of SimuFlite Training International
I'm not pushing QuickTurn, but they're under appreciated, in the shadow of
FlightSafety.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerry Johnson <kerry(at)kvelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
KVJ is my initials Kerry Vee Johnson. KV is also an electrical term meaning
1000 volts...thus KV Electric. Almost seems like I was born to wire stuff
don't it :0)
KVJ
-----Original Message-----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com [mailto:CloudCraft(at)aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:47 PM
To: kerry(at)kvelectric.com
Subject: Re: Introduction
In a message dated 12/12/01 12:44:04 Pacific Standard Time,
kerry(at)kvelectric.com writes:
I'm new too, as of about two weeks ago anyway. I think you will the
folks
here to be top notch; it must have something to do with the rampant
Commanderitus.
Regards,
Kerry (KVJ)
Hey Kerry,
Does KVJ stand for Kilovolt Johnson?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
For the purpose of checking nav equipment is it legal to cross check a vor with
a gps?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Thanks for the responses but I guess I didn't phrase my question correctly. I'm
talking about the monthly requirement to check and log vor accuracy against a
vor test point, checkpoint, or comparing 2 vors vs each other. My question is
instead of using two VORs can you check a vor against an ifr certified gps instead
of another vor?
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Max Schuermann
To: N414C
Cc: Commander Tech Chat
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Nav Checks
If you are talking about the certification for IFR I think that needs to be done
by an avionics shop and calibrated test equipment.
N414C wrote:
For the purpose of checking nav equipment is it legal to cross check a vor
with a gps? Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/12/01 13:27:30 Pacific Standard Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
> For the purpose of checking nav equipment is it legal to cross check a vor
>
That's a great question, Dr. Milt.
FAR 91.171 does not list this as a valid check, so according to the letter of
the law, no.
However, knowing that technology moves faster than FARs, I'll do some
research and let the list know if the FAA is taking a look at this.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I believe it has to be tested by a radio shop in order to be certified as "calibrated"
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander Tech Chat
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 13:17
Subject: Nav Checks
For the purpose of checking nav equipment is it legal to cross check a vor with
a gps?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maytag <dmaytag(at)commspeed.net> |
Hi Gary,
I did my last recurrent at Simuflite Quickturn last January and I am going back
with them next month. They were just getting started and the books weren't even
back from the printers yet but it was a good program. Like Keith said, the
simulator is non moving but the visuals are so good that after about five minutes,
it doesn't even matter. I went there because they are (were) roughly half
the price of Flight Safety and I have been to Flight Safety so much that I
wanted to see something different. They also have a more flexible recurrent
schedule.
I will add this opinion however: I would recommend Flight Safety over Simuflight
for the initial course because there are still some guys at Flight Safety that
will acknowledge that there is life outside of "The Manual." The instructor
at Simuflight was really pretty inexperienced and he didn't know anything if
it wasn't in the book. It has always been a pet peeve of mine how these expensive
schools can be so limited in knowledge of, and experience with, the airplane.
(I think it is a common problem because of high turnover with instructors
and the liability of discussing non FAA approved material.) I believe Flight
Safety has more to offer in the ground school and if they don't know the answer,
they know where to get it. I can't say the same was true at Simuflight.
Either way, there isn't much more fun than learning a new airplane especially a
Commander!
Regards,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: AC 690
In a message dated 12/12/01 11:46:11 Pacific Standard Time, TILLMAN333(at)aol.com
writes:
I NEED FREE ADVISE...THE BEST TRAINING FACILATY?
Two choices, Gary.
FlightSaftey in Bethany, Oklahoma is always good.
Or, Quick Turn in Dallas. Quick Turn is the turbo prop side of SimuFlite and
although their simulator is non-motion, it's wrap around visuals give all the
sensation of flight.
I got a demo at Quick Turn and was very impressed. Their price and schedule
will be more competitive than FlightSafety.
web site: QuickTurn, a Division of SimuFlite Training International
I'm not pushing QuickTurn, but they're under appreciated, in the shadow of FlightSafety.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maytag <dmaytag(at)commspeed.net> |
Sorry about the receipt thing. I'll get this damn e-mail figured out someday.
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NBAA Convention in New Orleans |
George,
Thanks for the invite. Unfortunately, I will not be attending. I'm still in the
process of purchasing a 685. Wish I could have seen yours. Milt's write-up
has reingnited my fire. "Thanks Milt!" Hope you get to sell a few 900's while
your there!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NBAA Convention In New Orleans Dec 12-14 |
George,
I will be calling you. I am on the convention floor at the Chevron Booth.
913-485-3799 Cell.
This is a good show. Not a large as last year. I stopped by the Twin Commander
booth. Just the new panel for the 690's.
Lots of new toys to look at.
Regards
Tylor Hall
>
>
>In a message dated 12/12/01 05:17:14 Pacific Standard Time, yundt(at)speakeasy.net
writes:
>
>
>
My company (Dassault Falcon Jet Corp)
is an exibitor and I have access to a few FREE passes.
>
>
George,
>
>
Thanks for the most generous invitation! I wish I could take you up on
it; I'd love to get your sales pitch on a Falcon 900EX and would like to see
your AC-685 -- not necessarily in that order.
>
>
Regrettably, I'm flying a vintage Falcon this week and can't make NBAA
this year.
>
>
If you can get to the convention hall, stroll over to Twin Commander Aircraft
Corp. and say hello to them.
>
>
Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lowell Girod <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
Gentleman;
I got my manuals for my 560E from 'manualplus(at)aol.com' also might want to
check 'www.aerotecdata.com' and 'www.esscoaircraft.com.' As I recall when
I got mine, manualplus was equal or lower in price. I got maintenance,
parts, overhaul, and pilot operating procedures.
Don
--- Lowell Girod
--- dongirod(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Ya'll ever notice that Lucille never has any of the there A.D.s Can we say
PERFECT just asa she is? BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
Great story Chris! (What date did this event happen at?)
I'm sure Al learned some very good experiences on that flight.
(my limit is 3 strikes on equipment malfunctions and I'm out of the
cockpit until it's fixed)
In the USAF, it's when the crew members start rebelling or won't fly in
the aircraft.
You might want to search the NTSB site on the L39, you can find some
additional stories.
I found a couple of interesting thrillers when I was researching this Jet.
At one time (when the stocks were high) I was preparing to purchase an
L39C model
from either AZ or from Czech Jet, Inc in Hollister CA,
(The L39 ZA or ZO model is the preferred choice)
From my research they fly very well, maintenance is simply but needs to
be kept up as all jets do and they are very forgiving as a simple jet
trainer should be.
Last weekend I flew down to Hollister with a helicopter student for our
usual Helo-breakfast and watched one take off with a female pilot in
front and a maintenance crew member in back for a test flight. Nice
airplane and the paint scheme was gorgeous!
A few good sites on the L39 when I was researching to purchase.
http://www.l39.com/
http://www.l39.com/For%20Sale.htm
http://www.jetwarbird.com/
http://www.l39jet.com/
http://www.firecatjet.com/
http://www.firecatjet.com/l39specs.htm
http://www.internationaljets.com/l39albatros.html
http://www.internationaljets.com/salesinfo.html
http://www.angelfire.com/mn/AeroL39/
Unfortunitely SEC. 1062. AUTHORITY TO ENSURE DEMILITARIZATION OF
SIGNIFICANT
MILITARY EQUIPMENT FORMERLY OWNED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE.
could be a factor now after the Sept 11 incident.
Fly safe,
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Major Randy "Laser" Sharp ANG/USAF, MEII-A/H
The ultimate vertical Flight experience.
HH-60G...PaveHawk "The Jolly Green Giants"
129TH RQS "RESCUE SERVICE"; Fly Safe!
AC-500B Twin Commander "N6367U" my baby C130
"-within the hearts of all who fly, lives
the child who once stood at the gate to their future-"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com said:
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:17:46 -0500
>From: ALLAN L HOFFMAN <alh1(at)juno.com>
>Subject: l-39
>
>
>dear chris, this is an article that i wrote about one of my aircraft
>adventures. although it is not about an aero commander, some of the
>members in the chat group may find it entertaining. keep up the good
>work. al hoffman
>
>ABILITY TO MEET EMERGENCIES
>by
>Allan L. Hoffman
>I have read that if you ask men and women to name the most important
>traits in the opposite sex, women will list "ability to meet emergencies"
>as the most important trait in a man. This story is about that ability.
>The trip started simply enough. I have been a pilot since 1967 and have
>about 2500 hours in various aircraft, mostly multi-engine, but some jet
>time. I have a commercial license with an instrument rating. My friend
>has an airline transport license and is a flight instructor who also has
>about 2500 hours and some jet time. To protect his identity, I will call
>him "John."
>The adventure began when John called and told me he had purchased a Czech
>built L-39 Fighter Jet that had been a fighter and trainer with the
>Ukranian Air Force. He wanted to know if I would help him fly it from
>Wisconsin to Georgia. Apparently there is a maintenance base in Savannah
>where it was going to be refurbished. I had seen L-39's at the Oshkosh
>Air Show and they seemed to be beautiful planes, so of course I agreed.
>It sounded like the adventure of a lifetime. It was.
>After confirming that the plane would be ready to fly the next day, we
>flew by commercial airline to Minneapolis. We then drove sixty miles to a
>small town in Wisconsin where the plane was waiting for the trip home. We
>arrived late at night and could not locate the jet at the airport, but we
>assumed it was in a hangar. There were four or five other L-39's on the
>field, but none had the registration number of my friends plane. My
>friend had never seen the airplane.
>After a good nights sleep and a "continental breakfast" at the only motel
>in town, we were fortunate to meet an L-39 instructor pilot who went over
>some of the systems and speeds with us at breakfast. I assume he was
>there to give either instruction or a check ride in the other jets. We
>drove to the airport to meet the seller and fly home. We thought if we
>left at 7:00 a.m. we could be in Savannah in about six hours with three
>fuel stops and four hours of flying. Even with the time change we could
>be back home in Florida in time for the late news.
>Unfortunately the plane was not ready. The seller and a mechanic were
>working on the plane with an avionics technician. Everyone pitched to
>remove the excess Soviet radios to make room for the baggage in the nose.
>The radios were the type we used in the 1950's, but apparently they did
>the job. To us, their only value was as a boat anchor as they did not
>work. We charged the battery and completed the transponder and
>communications radio installation.
>There was some problem with the communications radio as it had worked the
>day before, but then failed and was now working again. The transponder
>was working, but there was a problem when the aircraft was pressurized
>and they were working on that problem. The transponder is the radio that
>allows the radar operators on the ground to identify your aircraft and is
>necessary to fly into all the big airports. I assumed the avionics man
>knew what he was doing, so I didnt inquire further.
>About 3:00 p.m. everything was pronounced ready, but I would not agree to
>fly in the airplane until it was test flown. I had been told that the
>aircraft had been disassembled in the Ukraine, crated and then shipped by
>boat to the United States. Mechanics from the Ukranian Air Force had been
>flown to the United States and in two weeks had reassembled six planes.
>Because they did not speak English and no one at the airport spoke
>Russian, they worked without supervision. I was also told that the
>aircraft had been flown a day or two before, but so much work had been
>done in my presence, I wanted to see it fly before I would get in it.
>The seller was an airline pilot who had flown fighters in Vietnam, but
>apparently did not have a letter of authorization from the Federal
>Aviation Administration to fly this particular model. My friend had the
>letter of authorization and a dispute developed as to who would fly it
>first. After I announced that I was driving to Minneapolis to fly home on
>a commercial jet, they both agreed to fly it. The plane started
>immediately, made two touch and go landings on the airport runway and was
>airborne a total of about twenty minutes. It flew out of my sight and was
>up high so I figured everything was alright. When they landed and shut
>down the engine, there was a huge cloud of smoke from the engine. I was
>told was caused by improper shutdown procedure allowing excess fuel to
>get into the engine. That sounded reasonable. Since everything was
>working, I fueled the airplane and they went off to get the paperwork
>completed. The brakes were weak and we aired them up with nitrogen. They
>then worked perfect.
>I wanted to make short trips between airports with at least a 7000 foot
>runway, airline connections and maintenance facilities. That put the
>first stop at Madison, Wisconsin about 20 minutes away. My thought was
>that if there was a problem, we would have a long runway, airline jet
>mechanics and an alternate means to go home if the plane had a problem.
>We agreed that we would fly using Visual Flight Rules (VFR) as the
>aircraft was not certified for instrument flight and no navigation radios
>were installed in the aircraft. It just happens that the FAA requires
>this type of operation in any event. I was to navigate and assist with
>the flying. John would fly and work the communications radio. I had a
>hand held Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) Navigation radio with a
>communications radio combined, but the range was only about ten miles on
>the comminations side so it would not be much of a backup. We installed a
>portable intercom and worked out hand signals with the control stick to
>communicate if we lost the intercom. Because the jet had ejection seats,
>there was a barrier between the pilots to protect the back seat pilot in
>the event the front seat pilot ejected first and that barrier prevented
>communication between the front seat pilot and the rear seat pilot
>without an intercom.
>The takeoff was uneventful as was the first ten minutes of the flight. We
>climbed to about 17500 feet and with the pressurization and air
>conditioning we were very comfortable. The G.P.S. was working, the charts
>were up to date, the intercom was flawless and the transponder was
>working on the 1200 VFR code. We were not sure the altitude readout was
>working, but we intended to check it as soon as we were in contact with a
>radar facility. It was difficult to determine the speed and altitude of
>the aircraft as the gauges were in Kilometers per hour and meters, but
>the ground speed was about 290 knots or 320 mph on the G.P.S. The
>altimeter on the G.P.S. was as accurate as the altimeter and it was
>reading in feet. I had a conversion chart for the various speeds and I
>divided by 3 for the altimeter. Life was beautiful.
>John then suggested we skip Madison and turn south. Since things were
>going so good, I agreed and gave him a heading to Peoria. That is a great
>stop for us in the summer trips to Oshkosh as they have Byerly Aviation
>with those good chocolate chip cookies. There is a gambling boat near the
>hotel and I assumed it would help recover some of the cost of the trip.
>This would make the first leg about one hour long.
>We turned on course and about five minutes later there was a loud
>explosion from the front of the aircraft with an immediate decompression.
>Each pilot has two identical panels with red warning lights and about
>half of them went on at once. Unfortunately the writing on the warning
>lights was in Russian. John had a chart in English that allowed us to
>decode the lights and as we descended to a lower altitude, we tried to
>sort out the problems. The noise in the cockpit was overwhelming. I had a
>noise canceling headset that did a good job of letting me communicate,
>but the intercom would just barely work with the noise level. We started
>an immediate decent to 12000 feet since we had no oxygen system. No
>sooner did we reach 12000 feet than smoke started coming from the
>communication radio. We turned it off and the smoke stopped. We continued
>to Peoria as I knew they had an excellent radio shop and they could fix
>the radio while we waited. I called Peoria on the hand held about ten
>miles from the airport and they cleared us to land on the long runway. As
>we touched down and started to slow on the runway, John announced in a
>high pitched voice that we had no brakes. Frantic pumping partially
>restored the brakes and we coasted to the ramp.
>At every stop, everyone was interested in the plane. The paint job was
>spray can camouflage which I assumed was standard Soviet issue. It had a
>Ukranian Air Force symbol on the tail and it looks fast standing still.
>I removed the radio and went into the Avionic shop. They advised there
>was a late shift that would look at it overnight. It was about 5:30 p.m.
>and everyone was headed home from the day shift. John ordered fuel and
>supervised the fueling. The nitrogen pressure was down so we had the
>mechanic air it up again and checked the system for leaks. None were
>found. We went to the motel and the gambling boat and proceeded to lose
>money. We stopped before we had to put up the title to the plane. I
>assume they are just holding that money for me until I can get back to
>the casino.
>
>The next morning we were going to get an early start as there was bad
>weather behind us. A hurricane was coming on shore in the panhandle of
>Florida that would prevent us from going to Savannah that day, but at
>least we could be very close. The radio was beyond repair, and the
>avionics repair technician advised there had been some type of over
>voltage condition that had cooked it. We put it with the baggage and got
>clearance from Peoria for takeoff with my hand held communications radio.
>The tower advised that the storm was about fifteen minutes north of the
>field and we needed to hurry as the airport was going to close for all
>but instrument aircraft when the storm hit. The brakes were working, the
>pressurization was working, the hand held was communicating and life was
>good again. John had decided to have the Peoria Tower call Nashville and
>tell them that we were one hour away without a radio and would be landing
>in Nashville. He assured me they would be expecting us and would allow us
>to land without a radio. I told him he was a dreamer and I was right.
>The takeoff was again uneventful and we climbed VFR to 11500 feet. I was
>not comfortable with higher until I was sure the pressurization seals
>were alright. It is so quiet in the cockpit with the pressurization
>working that the pilots can talk to each other without yelling into the
>intercom, which was still working perfectly. Peoria turned us loose about
>25 miles south and we were high enough that we did not have to talk to
>anyone between there and Nashville. Unfortunately about twenty minutes
>into the flight, the loud noise reoccurred in the nose, the
>pressurization went out, the red lights came on and the noise level
>became extremely loud again. With the headset turned on, communication
>was barely possible.
>Nashville is controlled airspace that requires communication between the
>airport and the aircraft before you can enter their airspace. Needless to
>say, they were not expecting us. The hand held would receive from about
>twenty five miles, but could only communicate from about ten. Nashvilles
>controlled airspace goes out ten miles and you cannot enter until you
>establish radio communication. After about three tries, I got Nashville
>on the radio and they advised "remain outside of the controlled
>airspace". That was extremely difficult in itself as we were at the edge
>of their airspace and at the edge of the transmitter power on my radio.
>The next question from the tower was "Did I understand you are a jet on a
>VFR flight plan?". My response was "no sir, we do not have a flight plan
>as we just canceled it, we are just a VFR jet." He asked what kind and I
>replied a Soviet L-39 Albatross. He replied "What is that?" I told him it
>would be easier to show him than try to explain it. We were cleared
>straight in and overflew a Tennessee Air National Guard C-130 waiting to
>takeoff. The pilot must have thought he was under attack when we went by
>with the Soviet markings. He called the tower and said as much on the
>radio. Of course we had no brakes on landing and after frantic pumping,
>we were able to bring the aircraft to a stop and taxi back to the ramp.
>As soon as we were stopped on the ramp, a mechanic appeared with the
>nitrogen bottle and the fuel truck. The weather had moved to the Northern
>Alabama border so we decided the next stop would be Knoxville since we
>could not go farther south. People were climbing all over the plane
>trying to get a closer look. John, who is a big guy, asked then to get
>off the plane and they scattered. We finally got squared away with
>nitrogen and jet fuel and headed east to Knoxville. As we were taxiing
>out there were three airliners waiting to takeoff. We were sandwiched
>between them. One of them pulled ahead of us and got chewed out by the
>tower. We were cleared to taxi around him and the takeoff was uneventful.
>Who knows what the passengers on the airliner must have thought. A small
>crowd had assembled at the airport to watch us takeoff.
>The brakes were working, the pressurization was fine, the hand held radio
>was transmitting and the transponder was sending out our position. Life
>was good. About twenty minutes from Nashville, or about half way to
>Knoxville, the pressurization went out and we then assumed the brakes
>went with it. Apparently the loud noise was the air rushing into the
>cockpit as a result of pressure loss in the seal since the nitrogen had a
>slow leak which controlled both the seal and the brakes. We were ready
>for it this time.
>We were not ready for the cockpit to fill with smoke again. A quick scan
>of the charts got us an airport with a 2400 foot landing strip.
>Unfortunately we needed about 3000 feet to make a landing with the brakes
>working and they were not. That meant we were going into the fence after
>touchdown, but we assumed that was better than taking a chance on the
>fire or the ejection seats. I told John that at the first sign of fire, I
>was going to pull the ejection handle and take my chances. Of course we
>had no helmets or even a flight suit, and no idea if the ejection seats
>would even work, but that was preferable to a fire in a magnesium
>cockpit. We shut down everything electrical except the necessary engine
>switches and headed for the short strip. Without brakes, it was going to
>be a thrill ride. I think my pilot had either wet or soiled his pants at
>this point, but I was just too busy to get scared, but not far behind.
>(About two feet from the front to the back). At least we had all of the
>Russian flashing red lights for comfort.
>Just as we got ready to lower the landing gear and put the aircraft on
>the ground, the smoke cleared and the burning smell was rapidly leaving
>the plane. We started to add the electrical load a switch at a time and
>determined that apparently an inverter had failed. This was probably the
>reason the radio had failed in the first place. The inverter changes the
>engine voltage to aircraft voltage. We left that switch off and climbed
>back to 11,500 feet. We were now only about fifteen minutes from
>Knoxville.
>I could hear Knoxville but we were too far out to talk to them. Just then
>a Northwest Airlines DC-9 appeared in the front window and I could hear
>Knoxville approach tell him "something was coming up really fast behind
>him and they (Knoxville) were not talking to it." Since I knew it had to
>be us, I asked the airliner to relay our request for landing to
>Knoxville. Knoxville cleared us to follow the DC-9 to the airport. I told
>John to follow him and stay back so the pilots and passengers could not
>see us. I did not want to alarm the passengers with a Russian fighter on
>their wing..
>I quit navigating as soon as we started following the DC-9 and started to
>get ready to land. I made sure John had the airliner in sight. We were
>now only about five miles from the airport when John lost the airliner
>but didnt tell me. John was holding altitude and heading. By the time I
>got back to the navigation radio we were over the top of the airport at
>2500 feet. I requested a 360 degree turn to the runway and it was
>approved. When we got on the ground, John agreed with me that we would
>get a good nights sleep and fly home in the morning on an airliner. He
>was visibly shaken by the smoke in the cockpit. He said he would make
>arrangements to have someone pick up the plane and fly it to Savannah
>after everything was repaired. I was relieved. Again we added jet fuel
>and nitrogen.
>The next morning it was zero/zero, meaning no ceiling and no visibility.
>Fog was everywhere. It was one of those days when you cannot see the wing
>tip from the cockpit. John wanted to make the final leg to Savannah and I
>wanted an airliner. Since nothing was moving, I decided to go to the
>local radio shack and get some wire and connectors for the handheld. An
>hour later, we were wired to the aircraft external communication antenna
>and we now had a thirty mile communication range on the handheld.
>The weather was improving and John was talking as fast as he could to
>convince me to go the last leg. The weather was terrible but improving.
>We had a small window that would allow good weather. Knoxville is up
>against the mountains which are about 7000 feet high. Landing pilots were
>reporting clear skies above 7000 feet so we decided to see if we could
>climb to VFR on top of the clouds. Knoxville Tower Departure cleared us
>VFR to 10,000 in the control zone and we climbed west away from the
>mountains and towards the clear skies. We were on top almost immediately.
>A turn south put us on a direct heading to Savannah. With the new antenna
>cable, I could receive Augusta, Georgia and we were in business.
>About fifteen minutes into the flight we lost pressurization and brakes.
>The red lights came back and the noise was terrible. It was about thirty
>minutes to Savannah. Life was okay because I expected the problems. I
>called Savannah about forty miles from the airport, established radar
>contact and we were given vectors to the airport. About ten miles from
>the airport we were number four for landing at the airport. Savannah
>advised they were going to vector us out over the Atlantic Ocean for a
>twenty mile turn to the final runway. I wanted the plane on the ground.
>I asked John if I could declare an emergency and ask to be number one for
>the field. After everything that had happened, I did not want to be any
>farther from the airport than absolutely necessary. John told me to calm
>down and that he would fly the plane and guarantee that we would make the
>airport. I agreed to calm down. A few minutes later we were on the ground
>in Savannah. After we taxied to the ramp the mechanics were starting to
>work on the plane as soon as we shut down. I climbed out of the cockpit,
>lost my footing and fell to the ground. The ground never felt so good. I
>assume this is how they do it at top gun school, since I am now a jet
>fighter pilot.
>________________________________________________________________
>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS......
I have just received an Airworthiness Concern Sheet on the
dreaded sump issue. I will need written information from anyone who has
inspected their sumps as per S/L 37, I know several of you have. I will be
meeting with the FAA on this matter soon. An ACS is the last steep before an
AD is issued so this will be important. I know nobody wants to hear the "S"
word, but unless you have a couple of grand laying around, better get on
this. It affects all piston flat nacelled airplanes. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/14/01 12:44:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com writes:
> HI KIDS......
>
> I have just received an Airworthiness Concern Sheet on the
> dreaded sump issue. I will need written information from anyone who has
> inspected their sumps as per S/L 379, I know several of you have. I will
> be
> meeting with the FAA on this matter soon. An ACS is the last steep before
> an
> AD is issued so this will be important. I know nobody wants to hear the
> "S"
> word, but unless you have a couple of grand laying around, better get on
> this. It affects all piston flat nacelled airplanes. jb
Reply to me personally at yourtcfg(at)aol.com thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
all: we have experienced a few problems over the last 24 hours
with our network re-org. My appologies for any interruptions.
Appears that hackers have been "testing" our new firewall config
extensivly. (no security breaches thus far :)
I also note that hotmail appears to be having some trauma also.
I have error messages that show some email not being properly
delivered to hotmail accounts. Hopefully everthing will be working
correctly shortly.
thanks,
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.....
I have sold the propellers that I mentioned earlier. The new
owner is going to have them overhauled, they will be great props for him. He
will have a pair of the old props for sale. They are the same hub, clamps
bearings, etc., as those used on the 520 and 560, 560A. The baldes are the
same as a 2 blade installation on the 520. If you own one of these
airplanes, you might consider buying these to us for parts to keep your
airplane going, as there is no STC for replacement propellers for you. Also,
he will have a pair if the small, 13in, spinners and back plates available.
I don't want to reveal his contact info yet, so let me know if you are
interested or he may ad his contact information to a future post.
Sorry to those other guys who were checking on the props, They were a
GREAT buy "if ya snooze, ya looze".......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I have an artistic youngster that would like to build a 680FL "Flying" remote control
model using electric geared engines with a balsa wood airframe, I don't
think I'll bother with the pressurization option though.
Does any one out there have access to a wire frame 3-view drawing preferable to
scale?
The drawings can be scaled to the model size.
Happy humbugs!
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 11:37
Subject: SHIRTS, AND MODELS.
HI KIDS...................
Well, the "T" shirts finally arrived a few minutes ago. I will get
all of them in the mail to you who have ordered them today, thanks for your
patience. There are still some of the popular sizes available so if anyone wants
one, now is the time!!!!
Also, I bought a really cool model on ebay and it also arrived today.
It is totally cool. A 1957 control line model of "Ikes" L-26 (560A or 680??)
complete with a few photos on the plans sheet of the real airplane. The kit is
complete and in good condition, I will build it for static only. Now, do I
build it as the "Prez plane" of make it look like triple 2?? Decisions, decisions.
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michrandi(at)aol.com <Michrandi(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Sighted Commanders |
Sir Barry,
How are things in the (Land of Tea and Crumpets)?
In my travels I have spotted two Commanders.
One at AppleValley, Cal. (APV) a 690 N999WW
ser.0141720, the other at Henderson,Nv. (L15)
a 500B N64TS ser.0141106.
I plead with you to forgive me, I didn't have a camera
to take a few pictures. My excuse, I was thinking
about Commander Gordon being in sunny
Cabo San Lucas, Mex. while we are here in chilly
Las Vegas. (I wonder if they grate or blend their
potatoes)
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/16/01 11:35:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
> electric geared engines
At least he is using the right engines!! I have some GREAT drawings of all
the Commanders I got from Barry Collman. I can make a copy of the FL and
sent it to you if you want. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Wonderful,
If it would not be too much trouble we would appreciate it very much.
Are you going to Email them?
If not let me know and I will send you my mailing address.
Thanks again!
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca ; commandertech-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 13:00
Subject: Re: MODELS.
In a message dated 12/16/01 11:35:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca
writes:
electric geared engines
At least he is using the right engines!! I have some GREAT drawings of all the
Commanders I got from Barry Collman. I can make a copy of the FL and sent
it to you if you want. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
Tom,
Here is a link to a company that offers a Twin Commander kit.
http://www.modaire.com/catalog.htm
Looks real good.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fisher [mailto:tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca]
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 3:37 PM
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com; commandertech-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com;
COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: MODELS.
Wonderful,
If it would not be too much trouble we would appreciate it very much.
Are you going to Email them?
If not let me know and I will send you my mailing address.
Thanks again!
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca ;
commandertech-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
;
COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 13:00
Subject: Re: MODELS.
In a message dated 12/16/01 11:35:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
electric geared engines
At least he is using the right engines!! I have some GREAT drawings of all
the Commanders I got from Barry Collman. I can make a copy of the FL and
sent it to you if you want. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Chris and Dan's New Book, Dreamcatcher |
Hay Gang,
http://www.worldflight2000.org/picture.asp
Chris and Dan have the book out.
Has anyone seen it??
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS....
Does anyone have Paul Gravel's (in the Caribbean) email address.
Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michrandi(at)aol.com <Michrandi(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Sighted CommandersII |
Barry, this was sent to me, from Daryl (skydoc). I'll forward it to you and
the
list.
Glad to here things are well across the way. The temp.
does get down to the 20's and 30's in the winter. Not much
moisture, but lots of wind.
The N64TS was very clean. The exhaust headers where
chromed and no oil leaks, does this disqualify it as a
Commander?
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sighted CommandersII |
> This is newcomer and member Daryl Wilkins in Stockton....I was at
> Stockton Airport (flying around in my Bellanca) and I spotted an Aero
> Commander.
> N4186B
> Anyone know of this plane?
That's my old bird!
I hear she's flying regularly these days.
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
> I climbed out of the cockpit,
> lost my footing and fell to the ground. The ground never felt so good. I
> assume this is how they do it at top gun school, since I am now a jet
> fighter pilot.
I am HORRIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sorry for saying this but these
guys are an EMBARASSMENT to the pilot community, and insurance NIGHTMARE for
anyone flying jet warbirds, and candidates for the DARWIN AWARD.
To think that someone would elucidate on their utter insanity and then JOKE
about it is simply incredible.
This article carries with it irresponsibility of the highest order.
Barry (I cannot contain myself when this level of #@* % appears) Hancock
PS The L-39 Albatros is a jet *trainer* and is not a fighter, as depicted
in the article.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Rub A Dub Dub,I's do likes my tubs! BIG AL
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)gte.net> |
I, too, was appalled at the lack of shame in this article.
Events like this certainly fall under the "what not to do" category.
Jim Jorgensen (Seattle)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sighted Commanders |
Now THIS is funny:
Have any of you noticed that the model Aero Commander (1/4 scale - 11.5 foot wingspan!)
in the catalog that Tylor sent us, http://www.modaire.com/catalog.htm
, sports the tail number of the AC500B that Mike spotted in Henderson, NV - N64TS?
That seems like a pretty strange coincidence to me....
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: Michrandi(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 12:19 PM
Subject: Sighted Commanders
Sir Barry,
How are things in the (Land of Tea and Crumpets)?
In my travels I have spotted two Commanders.
One at AppleValley, Cal. (APV) a 690 N999WW
ser.0141720, the other at Henderson,Nv. (L15)
a 500B N64TS ser.0141106.
I plead with you to forgive me, I didn't have a camera
to take a few pictures. My excuse, I was thinking
about Commander Gordon being in sunny
Cabo San Lucas, Mex. while we are here in chilly
Las Vegas. (I wonder if they grate or blend their
potatoes)
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS......
I just received a really nice gift from Dan Dominguez & Chris
Wall. They sent me an autographed copy of there book, Dreamcatcher, the name
they gave thier 560E Commander. It is really a fantastic book. If you have
ANY interest in Commanders, you will love this book. It is full of great and
truly unusual pictures (I don't know who they got some of them??). It is
also a wonderful story about their trip and an inspiration to read.
You can order your copy from them at www.worldflight2000.org.
Do it before Christmas, it is a great stocking stuffer!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine. |
The kinks have yet to be worked out. The Dynacam is neither a new nor revolutionary
idea. It's vaporware right now, and I don't see it ever making the grade,
unfortunately...
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Woodley
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:03 AM
Subject: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
http://www.dynacam.com/
If i had the funds, i would fund the project myself. As well as a few others.
I guess I need to make more money first before I can blindly dump endless funds
into an STC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine. |
I just finished speaking with Pat Wilks. It turns ot that the engine is indeed
FAA certified. The problem/(kinks) is the funding for projects for aircraft.
pat mentioned they are working on putting an engine in a 182, and also a couple
experimental sport planes.
They currently have 2 dynacam engines that are using the 20 spline 3 bladed props
were on the Queen air, which should work for the 520 and 560 commanders that
used those props. The issue they have is the additional cost, and the supplier
for the splined shaft engines. Pat also mentioned that there are quite a
few sport pilots who would prefer splined to flanged anyhow.
I offered to use my commander as a test bed and i would fly it to California if
they went ahead with splined. Really, if I were going to overhaul/exchange engines
would like to keep my existing props. and save on the expense of new props
add that to the fact that the dynacam run in the same range (rpm) as the existing
prop rpm. After all the props I have are brand new. with only about 25
hours on them.
The cost of the engine is $30,000.00. All in all if they provided $30,000.00,
2000 hour TBO engines that did not require me to change props, that would be
an outstanding bargain, vs. the $25,000.00 + to overhaul my old engines.
One this is for certain, I would have to have my nacells completely redone, to
fit the new engines. Pat mentioned the supercharged 300 hourspower model, provides
the better horsepower and MUCH more torque than my existing GO-480's.
It would be interesting for sure.
One thing to note. The reason the AC520/560 has geared engines is for the additional
torque needed to throw the big props, and turn them at a slower rate.
http://www.dynacam.com/Product/Performance/performance.html
I try to run my engines at 2650 RPM, which gives me I think 1700 RMP on the props.
The power range of the dynacam seems most appropriate to the existing props
the 520/560 planes use. Also, looking at the torque, and comparing 200hp
engines, the dynacam has 650ft-lb. Torque where a 200 hp Lycoming has 380 ft-lb.
Torque. Add 100 hp (supercharged), and i think we can see where we will have
tremendously increased performance which should include increased gross weight,
and the ability to fly much higher and faster.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
The kinks have yet to be worked out. The Dynacam is neither a new nor revolutionary
idea. It's vaporware right now, and I don't see it ever making the grade,
unfortunately...
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Woodley
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:03 AM
Subject: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
http://www.dynacam.com/
If i had the funds, i would fund the project myself. As well as a few others.
I guess I need to make more money first before I can blindly dump endless
funds into an STC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine. |
Fascinating news Mark. Please keep us up to date on the progress
you make with the retrofit. Can't think of any major reason this
couldn't be done. Just lots of little projects which have to come
together to make a package.
GOod luck!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine. |
Wow Mark,
If they'll use your airplane as a test bed, more power to you and them! I would
like to see that happen...
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Woodley
To: John Vormbaum ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
I just finished speaking with Pat Wilks. It turns ot that the engine is indeed
FAA certified. The problem/(kinks) is the funding for projects for aircraft.
pat mentioned they are working on putting an engine in a 182, and also a couple
experimental sport planes.
They currently have 2 dynacam engines that are using the 20 spline 3 bladed props
were on the Queen air, which should work for the 520 and 560 commanders that
used those props. The issue they have is the additional cost, and the supplier
for the splined shaft engines. Pat also mentioned that there are quite
a few sport pilots who would prefer splined to flanged anyhow.
I offered to use my commander as a test bed and i would fly it to California
if they went ahead with splined. Really, if I were going to overhaul/exchange
engines would like to keep my existing props. and save on the expense of new
props add that to the fact that the dynacam run in the same range (rpm) as the
existing prop rpm. After all the props I have are brand new. with only about
25 hours on them.
The cost of the engine is $30,000.00. All in all if they provided $30,000.00,
2000 hour TBO engines that did not require me to change props, that would be
an outstanding bargain, vs. the $25,000.00 + to overhaul my old engines.
One this is for certain, I would have to have my nacells completely redone, to
fit the new engines. Pat mentioned the supercharged 300 hourspower model, provides
the better horsepower and MUCH more torque than my existing GO-480's.
It would be interesting for sure.
One thing to note. The reason the AC520/560 has geared engines is for the additional
torque needed to throw the big props, and turn them at a slower rate.
http://www.dynacam.com/Product/Performance/performance.html
I try to run my engines at 2650 RPM, which gives me I think 1700 RMP on the props.
The power range of the dynacam seems most appropriate to the existing props
the 520/560 planes use. Also, looking at the torque, and comparing 200hp
engines, the dynacam has 650ft-lb. Torque where a 200 hp Lycoming has 380 ft-lb.
Torque. Add 100 hp (supercharged), and i think we can see where we will
have tremendously increased performance which should include increased gross weight,
and the ability to fly much higher and faster.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
The kinks have yet to be worked out. The Dynacam is neither a new nor revolutionary
idea. It's vaporware right now, and I don't see it ever making the grade,
unfortunately...
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Woodley
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:03 AM
Subject: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
http://www.dynacam.com/
If i had the funds, i would fund the project myself. As well as a few others.
I guess I need to make more money first before I can blindly dump endless
funds into an STC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine. |
Well, I finally bit the bullet too. I am scheduled for Dec, 27th to have a Brand
new AD free heater installed in my plane. It will cost between 1750.00 and
2000.00 depending on how desperate they are to have an old piece of junk core
from a non repairable heater.
So Dec 27th at night I fly back to Raleigh from Michigan in a warm plane. I won't
know how to act.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum
To: Mark Woodley ; Commanderchat
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
Wow Mark,
If they'll use your airplane as a test bed, more power to you and them! I would
like to see that happen...
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Woodley
To: John Vormbaum ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
I just finished speaking with Pat Wilks. It turns ot that the engine is indeed
FAA certified. The problem/(kinks) is the funding for projects for aircraft.
pat mentioned they are working on putting an engine in a 182, and also a
couple experimental sport planes.
They currently have 2 dynacam engines that are using the 20 spline 3 bladed
props were on the Queen air, which should work for the 520 and 560 commanders
that used those props. The issue they have is the additional cost, and the supplier
for the splined shaft engines. Pat also mentioned that there are quite
a few sport pilots who would prefer splined to flanged anyhow.
I offered to use my commander as a test bed and i would fly it to California
if they went ahead with splined. Really, if I were going to overhaul/exchange
engines would like to keep my existing props. and save on the expense of new
props add that to the fact that the dynacam run in the same range (rpm) as the
existing prop rpm. After all the props I have are brand new. with only about
25 hours on them.
The cost of the engine is $30,000.00. All in all if they provided $30,000.00,
2000 hour TBO engines that did not require me to change props, that would
be an outstanding bargain, vs. the $25,000.00 + to overhaul my old engines.
One this is for certain, I would have to have my nacells completely redone,
to fit the new engines. Pat mentioned the supercharged 300 hourspower model,
provides the better horsepower and MUCH more torque than my existing GO-480's.
It would be interesting for sure.
One thing to note. The reason the AC520/560 has geared engines is for the
additional torque needed to throw the big props, and turn them at a slower rate.
http://www.dynacam.com/Product/Performance/performance.html
I try to run my engines at 2650 RPM, which gives me I think 1700 RMP on the
props. The power range of the dynacam seems most appropriate to the existing
props the 520/560 planes use. Also, looking at the torque, and comparing 200hp
engines, the dynacam has 650ft-lb. Torque where a 200 hp Lycoming has 380
ft-lb. Torque. Add 100 hp (supercharged), and i think we can see where we will
have tremendously increased performance which should include increased gross
weight, and the ability to fly much higher and faster.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
The kinks have yet to be worked out. The Dynacam is neither a new nor revolutionary
idea. It's vaporware right now, and I don't see it ever making the
grade, unfortunately...
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Woodley
To: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:03 AM
Subject: I still think this would make an AWSOME AC-560 engine.
http://www.dynacam.com/
If i had the funds, i would fund the project myself. As well as a few
others. I guess I need to make more money first before I can blindly dump endless
funds into an STC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Did I get booted out?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Howdy all. Some of you have probably been unable to post to
the list for the last few days. My must sincere appologies...
As previously mentioned, we're completely re-designing our
network topology with a new firewall scheme and multiple new
subnets. Without boring you with the details, suffice to say
that since we run all our own servers, routers, address translation,
etc, that we had a few problems trying to do this while keeping
everything up and online. There were some translation problems
that broke incoming email to "skymaster.c2-tech.com". I _think_
we have everything working again now - cross your fingers!
If you post something and either get an error message or it
doesn't show up after a few hours, please drop me a direct note
to "chris@c2-tech.com".
Thanks - sorry for the trauma.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Milt.If they did'nt get me ,they Damn sure won't get you!!! Big Al
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/16/01 20:18:19 Pacific Standard Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
> Does anyone have Paul Gravel's (in the Caribbean) email
> address.
> Thanks
Just back from a week in Cabo -- sorry for the late reply.
Paul and Joannie Gravel can be reaced at:
pgravel(at)svgair.com
and /or
svg2(at)caribsurf.com
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
Notice how he couln't just say..."sorry for the late reply"? Thanks for
rubbing it in, jerkoff. I hope you got a sunburn on your rear end too! :)
Barry (Me? Jealous? Naahhhh...) Hancock
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:14:46 -0500 (EST)
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: PAUL GRAVEL
In a message dated 12/16/01 20:18:19 Pacific Standard Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
Does anyone have Paul Gravel's (in the Caribbean) email
address.
Thanks
Just back from a week in Cabo -- sorry for the late reply.
Paul and Joannie Gravel can be reaced at:
pgravel(at)svgair.com
and /or
svg2(at)caribsurf.com
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sighted Commanders |
In a message dated 12/18/01 09:19:12 Pacific Standard Time, john(at)vormbaum.com
writes:
> Have any of you noticed that the model Aero Commander (1/4 scale - 11.5 foot
> wingspan!) in the catalog that Tylor sent us,
> http://www.modaire.com/catalog.htm> , sports the tail number of the AC500B
> that Mike spotted in Henderson, NV - N64TS?
>
> That seems like a pretty strange coincidence to me....
>
Mike,
Turn the binoculars around. Look through the small end, point the big end at
the airplane.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/18/01 21:46:53 Pacific Standard Time,
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net writes:
> Notice how he couln't just say..."sorry for the late reply"?
What!!????!? And have you think I was slacking off and not checking email 17
times a day?
Only being forced to fly to a foreign country would put me out of contact
with my Commander pals. Even if they are a jealous lot.
Wing Commander Gordon,
SPF 45
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Yeh! I noticed that too, Barry. There's most of us freezing in the early
throes of Winter, and WCG sneaks in with some tale about being in Cabo. It
was probably Alaska anyway!!
Barry (Me? Jealous? Yeeeehhhhhhhh!!) Collman
Barry Hancock
cc:
Subject: Re: PAUL GRAVEL
19/12/2001
05:37
Notice how he couln't just say..."sorry for the late reply"? Thanks for
rubbing it in, jerkoff. I hope you got a sunburn on your rear end too! :)
Barry (Me? Jealous? Naahhhh...) Hancock
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:14:46 -0500 (EST)
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: PAUL GRAVEL
In a message dated 12/16/01 20:18:19 Pacific Standard Time,
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com writes:
Does anyone have Paul Gravel's (in the Caribbean)
email address.
Thanks
Just back from a week in Cabo -- sorry for the late reply.
Paul and Joannie Gravel can be reaced at:
pgravel(at)svgair.com
and /or
svg2(at)caribsurf.com
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
So who's this Paul Gravel. We haven't seen anyones name so often since we booted
out that terrorist.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ????????????? |
In a message dated 12/19/01 05:04:32 Pacific Standard Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
> So who's this Paul Gravel. We haven't seen anyones name so often since we
>
He heads up an international network of terrorists dedicated to destroying
the American Way of Life.
He does this by luring successful entrepreneurs, tourists, newlyweds, etc.,
to his island hideout and forces his captives to relax and enjoy the beauty
of the Caribbean.
Using a small fleet of Commanders, he and his rebel forces undermine the work
ethics and values that make this country great: 14 hour days at the office, 7
days a week.
Pagers, fax, cellphone, modems and the like are confiscated and bashed on the
soccer field in front of the villagers in show of these fundamentalist ideals.
This is a very dangerous man.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Well Milt,Looks like us Gulf boys are sucking hind tit again. BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ????????????? |
So Wing Commander Gordon you finally admit to what you were really doing down there.
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: ?????????????
In a message dated 12/19/01 05:04:32 Pacific Standard Time, N414C(at)cableone.net
writes:
So who's this Paul Gravel. We haven't seen anyones name so often since we booted
out that terrorist.
He heads up an international network of terrorists dedicated to destroying the
American Way of Life.
He does this by luring successful entrepreneurs, tourists, newlyweds, etc., to
his island hideout and forces his captives to relax and enjoy the beauty of
the Caribbean.
Using a small fleet of Commanders, he and his rebel forces undermine the work
ethics and values that make this country great: 14 hour days at the office, 7
days a week.
Pagers, fax, cellphone, modems and the like are confiscated and bashed on the
soccer field in front of the villagers in show of these fundamentalist ideals.
This is a very dangerous man.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Kyle <mkyle(at)ctint.org> |
| Subject: | interiors for 500B |
Hello membership;
>
> I am currently a member of the flight group and the owner of a 500B
(160X).
> Can anyone recommend a good interior shop with Aero Commander experience
> located some where on the west coast. Any suggestions or recommendations
> would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Purpose of flight |
N414C(at)cableone.net said:
>So Wing Commander Gordon you finally admit to what you were really doing
>down there.
Yes WCG we would like to know?
Best Regards,
Major Randy 'Lazer' Sharp
Director of Operations (DEA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Actually got away from the hospital last week after 2 days with no sleep and went
to the NBAA convention.
As expected it was quite small this year. The static display was disappointing.
Got to the convention center and went to the Exxon booth about a dozen times
looking for Tylor. They thought I was crazy never heard of no Tylor. That might
be because he said he'd be at the Chevron booth. Finally found George Yundt
and Tylor found us. By then I was pretty whipped and sleepwalking.
Nonetheless it was good to see Tylor again and meet George. George was a wealth
of information about the 685 and those electronic chart Gizmos. After looking
at everything at the convention center I realized that there was absolutely
nothing there I could afford. Kinda like looking through the toy section of a
Sears catalog when I was a kid.
Left the show and promptly got lost in downtown New Orleans rush hour traffic and
ended up about 25 miles west of the Mississippi river before I got my bearings
and headed home. I should have flown instead of driving but tired as I was
that would have been dumb too.
This coming weekend hope to spend a lot of time in the pointy arrow. Saturday to
Harlingen Texas, Sunday back to Miss., Monday For Meyers Fla., and Tuesday back
to Gulfport. Oil leak is hopefully fixed and both generators now stay on line
for more than 15 minutes. De ice boots repaired but still having trouble with
alcohol windshield. Oh well every month the squaks are fewer. Well see if
this email gets through. For several days I thought Id been Phil Hacketized as
everything came back undeliverable.
Hope Y'all have a great holiday.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: interiors for 500B |
In a message dated 12/19/2001 11:15:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mkyle(at)ctint.org writes:
>
> Hello membership;
> >
> > I am currently a member of the flight group and the owner of a 500B
> (160X).
> > Can anyone recommend a good interior shop with Aero Commander experience
> > located some where on the west coast. Any suggestions or recommendations
> > would be appreciated.
>
>
I BELIEVE THE BEST GUY IN THE COUNTRY IS MICHAEL HENDERSON - YELLOWSTONE
COMPLETION CENTER IN - I THINK - MONTANA --- 1800-700-JET1 -
WWW.YELLOWSTONEJETS.COM
OTHEREWISE TRY AERO AIR IN HILLSBORO OREGON 503-640-3711. I DON'T KNOW IF
THEY ARE STILL DOING INTERIORS BUT THEY DO GOOD WORK.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Once again I am amazed at the hidden talents of WCG. The only way you can get
a sunburnt butt is to lay face down in the sand but to be able to jerkoff at the
same time is incredible. I am curious though. How does Barry know this?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | interiors for 500B |
Mike,
I realize its not your fault you live in California but if you move to Mississippi
quickly Big Al and I can do your Interior. We have a fresh shipment of roadkill
(possum and Armadillo). The skins will be ready for upholstery as soon as
our wimmen get done scraping the meat off of them. We also have new seats that
Cracker Barrel forgot to put away last night. Your plane should look great
when we get done. We do however demand cash up front as good roadkill is hard
to find.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Kyle
To: 'commandertech@c2-tech.com'
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:06 PM
Subject: interiors for 500B
Hello membership;
>
> I am currently a member of the flight group and the owner of a 500B
(160X).
> Can anyone recommend a good interior shop with Aero Commander experience
> located some where on the west coast. Any suggestions or recommendations
> would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerry Johnson <kerry(at)kvelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: interiors for 500B |
Hi Kyle,
I don't own a Commander yet, but I did have my B60 Duke interior refurbished
a few years ago at Klassik Interiors in Chino CA. Their phone was (909)
393-5877. They did a nice job, the plane looked new inside, but I had
everything refurbished. Panel, Headliner, Side-panels, Seats and Carpet. I
also had the shop next door, Buckley Aircraft Maintenance install "Aero
Sound Shields". I was most impressed with Mr. Buckley, if he is still there
his number was (909) 393-4295. Cost was $13,200.00 for interior, $1440.00
labor + $3000.00 material for the sound shields.
I don't think the sound shields were worth the dough, my wife said the plane
was a little quieter in the back, but I couldn't tell any difference from
the pilots seat.
Good luck,
KVJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kyle [mailto:mkyle(at)ctint.org]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 12:07 PM
To: 'commandertech@c2-tech.com'
Subject: interiors for 500B
Hello membership;
>
> I am currently a member of the flight group and the owner of a 500B
(160X).
> Can anyone recommend a good interior shop with Aero Commander experience
> located some where on the west coast. Any suggestions or recommendations
> would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: interiors for 500B |
In a message dated 12/19/01 11:41:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Furlong5(at)aol.com writes:
> OTHEREWISE TRY AERO AIR IN HILLSBORO OREGON 503-640-3711. I DON'T KNOW IF
> THEY ARE STILL DOING INTERIORS BUT THEY DO GOOD WORK.
YES, They are still doing interiors and do a great job...jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Purpose of flight |
In a message dated 12/19/01 11:22:16 Pacific Standard Time, sharp.r(at)apple.com
writes:
> So Wing Commander Gordon you finally admit to what you were really doing
> >down there.
>
You can not link me to Paulsama bin Gravel's network of working-ban
operatives.
I was in Cabo San Lucas, NOT St. Thomas and the Grenadines. That's all my
lawyers and press secretary will let me say about that.
Paulsoma bin Gravel and SVG Air are currently being sought after by a
multinational coalition of vacationers. He evades capture by operating out
of runways too small for almost anything but an expertly flown Aero Commander
to land and take off from.
He's is well educated in the ways of the West and has been disowned by the
Montreal Stock Exchange where he used to be a trader on the floor, before
entrenching himself as a radical airtaxi operator in a tiny sovereign island
nation.
Even his mother, who says he's a good boy, is ashamed of his dashing
lifestyle, flying the rich and famous to their private island hide aways.
Now.
As far as you boys on the Gulf Coast are concerned, as long as you don't have
worms in your No Name, you're missing an essential ingredient.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
A HAPPY HOLIDAY TO ALL - WHATEVER IT IS EACH OF YOU CELEBRATE MAY IT BRING
PEACE AND BLESSINGS.
JAN '02 BRINGS A CLEAN SLATE -- HAVE A HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR.
JIM FURLONG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
I am curious though. How does Barry know this?
Milt, sorry for the lack of clarification. I called WCG a jerkoff as a shot
at his character (or lack thereof). I can do this because he is my
friend...unlike the author of that "fighter pilot for a day" article who has
taken it upon himself to threaten me with legal action for "slander." What
a wonderful world we live in...you can't even call a spade a spade anymore.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
I am curious though. How does Barry know this?
Milt, sorry for the lack of clarification. I called WCG a jerkoff as a shot
at his character (or lack thereof). I can do this because he is my
friend...
But then again, perhaps WCG can hire afore mentioned attorney to sue me for
slander as well....
barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/19/01 20:35:20 Pacific Standard Time,
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net writes:
> I called WCG a jerkoff as a shot at his character (or lack thereof). I can
> do this because he is my friend...
>
> But then again, perhaps WCG can hire afore mentioned attorney to sue me for
> slander as well....
>
Hey! I thought that was a compliment! Am I supposed to sue you? Rats. I
completely missed that point.
~Wing Commander Gordon~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
>> I am curious though. How does Barry know this?
>>
>>
>> Milt, sorry for the lack of clarification. I called WCG a jerkoff as a shot
>> at his character (or lack thereof). I can do this because he is my friend...
>>
>> But then again, perhaps WCG can hire afore mentioned attorney to sue me for
>> slander as well....
>>
>> barry
>>
>>
Hey guys....ease up on the goodly WC
Thirteen months ago we had the very good fortune of inducting our beloved
Wing Commander into this chat group.
Over this time WC Gordon has generously shared his immense wealth of Twin
Commander knowledge with us, and exposed his awesome knowledge-bank to us on
many many occasions....just think of the times we hacked our way through
those FUEL SUMP days...sorry Capt JB it just slipped out!
Lets all rejoice in the knowledge that our best mate has had the chance of
a little R&R...mind you where the hell is Cabo? Be gentle with those of us
from Downunder !
Three Cheers for the Cabo kid!!
Ps Keith we are all waiting for your Cabo Commander sightings report!
Cheers and ciders
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Re: WCGIt is my impression that to qualify as slander the comment has to rise to
the level of outrageous and well outside the stream of prevailing public opinion.
I suspect if it actually comes to a case in court you will have a hundred
TCFG members by your side.
Now if WCG sues you we will all be there to actually watch him do the deed especially
if he brings a tricycle.
Amazing how the response of two people can be so different.
I am curious though, if we didn't have WCG to spar with, what would we have to
talk about most of the time. Sumps???
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: N414C ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: WCG
I am curious though. How does Barry know this?
Milt, sorry for the lack of clarification. I called WCG a jerkoff as a shot
at his character (or lack thereof). I can do this because he is my friend...unlike
the author of that "fighter pilot for a day" article who has taken it
upon himself to threaten me with legal action for "slander." What a wonderful
world we live in...you can't even call a spade a spade anymore.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
I sure am glad we aint talkin about the shirt no more.
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: WCG
In a message dated 12/19/01 20:35:20 Pacific Standard Time, bdogltd(at)pacbell.net
writes:
I called WCG a jerkoff as a shot at his character (or lack thereof). I can
do this because he is my friend...
But then again, perhaps WCG can hire afore mentioned attorney to sue me for
slander as well....
Hey! I thought that was a compliment! Am I supposed to sue you? Rats. I completely
missed that point.
~Wing Commander Gordon~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Correction. It cannot qualify as slander, as that is a spoken defamation.
Now, if the action was for libel...............
I am curious though, if we didn't have WCG to spar with, what would we have
to talk about most of the time. Sumps???
No, Milt..............SHIRTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BC
N414C
,
e.net> Commander BSChat Chat
20/12/2001 cc:
12:47 Subject: Re: WCG
It is my impression that to qualify as slander the comment has to rise to
the level of outrageous and well outside the stream of prevailing public
opinion. I suspect if it actually comes to a case in court you will have a
hundred TCFG members by your side.
Now if WCG sues you we will all be there to actually watch him do the deed
especially if he brings a tricycle.
Amazing how the response of two people can be so different.
I am curious though, if we didn't have WCG to spar with, what would we have
to talk about most of the time. Sumps???
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: N414C ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: WCG
I am curious though. How does Barry know this?
Milt, sorry for the lack of clarification. I called WCG a jerkoff as
a shot at his character (or lack thereof). I can do this because he
is my friend...unlike the author of that "fighter pilot for a day"
article who has taken it upon himself to threaten me with legal
action for "slander." What a wonderful world we live in...you can't
even call a spade a spade anymore.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Anticipation................too clever by half, Milt !!!!!!!!!!
BC
N414C
cc:
20/12/2001 Subject: Re: WCG
13:03
I sure am glad we aint talkin about the shirt no more.
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: WCG
In a message dated 12/19/01 20:35:20 Pacific Standard Time,
bdogltd(at)pacbell.net writes:
I called WCG a jerkoff as a shot at his character (or lack thereof). I
can do this because he is my friend...
But then again, perhaps WCG can hire afore mentioned attorney to sue me
for slander as well....
Hey! I thought that was a compliment! Am I supposed to sue you? Rats.
I completely missed that point.
~Wing Commander Gordon~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
Merry Christmas to my Christian Friends...
Happy Hanukkah to my Jewish friends...and
Good Luck to the atheists...
Fly Safe & Merry Christmas...,
Gary Tillman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
If you think Jerking Off is popping the clutch at 4000r'sin the ole
pickup,you might be a RED NECKED COMMANDER PILOT! BIG AL
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Milt,What the Hell is a squak? Is that the brand name of your shirts?
BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Purpose of flight |
In a message dated 12/19/01 4:41:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
<< As far as you boys on the Gulf Coast are concerned, as long as you don't
have
worms in your No Name, you're missing an essential ingredient. >>
We have worms Commander Gordan, it's just that we know what they should be
used for. FISHING BAIT!!! That gives you a good excuse to go out with the
guys and have some no name!!
Hey Milt!!! Which way you going to do the interior?? Possum inserts with
Amadillo trim?? Or the other way around??
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
If you consider road kill Armadillo to a delicacy known as Possum on the
half shell,you might be a RED NECKED COMMANDER PILOT. BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
If you've ever used FIX-A-Flat in your de-icing boots,you might be a RED
NECKED COMMANDER PILOT! BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
If your idea for a de-icing system is to attach a lawn sprinkler to the end
of your pilot relief tube,you might be a RED NECKED COMMANDER PILOT! BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
Lets all rejoice in the knowledge that our best mate has had the chance of
a little R&R...mind you where the hell is Cabo? Be gentle with those of us
from Downunder !
Three Cheers for the Cabo kid!!
Ps Keith we are all waiting for your Cabo Commander sightings report!
Cheers and ciders
Russ,
You are missing the point entirely! We do not put up pints when someone
else is having fun here in America. We are an insanely jealous lot and lash
out with childish behavior whenever appropriate.
Or, here in America to call our friends names and degrade them in any way
possible is a strong form of "male bonding".
America, a beautiful country with perhaps the most twisted of all
peoples....well, outside of our fudamentalist friends near and far.
Cheers,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/20/01 5:18:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
> I sure am glad we aint talkin about the shirt no more
>
> WHAT SHIRT?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/20/01 5:38:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk writes:
> SHIRTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> SHIRTS??? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/20/01 6:19:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com writes:
> your shirts?
WHAT STINKING SHIRTS??? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
G'Day Russ,
First off, no worries. I am not being slandered on the list. It all happens
to be true and therefore, not slanderous.
Cabo is at the tip of Baja California. A once barren desert wasteland, it
has been converted into an expensive, 5 star luxury resort riddled barren
desert wasteland.
Fair is fair. The Mexicans have always argued that California is rightfully
theirs and are slowly taking it back. The U.S. is slowly annexing Cabo San
Lucas as part of Beverly Hills -- so I guess it's a fair trade.
I did not see it, but the Hotel Finesterra ("Land's End" translated from
Spanish) owns a 690-B that is busy flying between San Jose del Cabo airport,
Hermosillo, Culiacan and Tucson.
That's why I was down there: to try and spot a Commander. Honestly.
Commanders have always been held in high esteem by Mexican operators as they
traditionally handled the unimproved runways -- but now that the airport
infrastructure is so good in Mexico, the appeal rests in the fact that
they're muy macho airplanes.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
For those of you who dont believe in squaks.
They are furry little buggers who get in your cowlings, jerkoff and cause all sorts
of trouble.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rednecks and Squaks |
I call them "snags"
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 18:22
Subject: Rednecks and Squaks
> If you think a "Squak" is a problem with your plane, you might be a RNCP.
Yeah, yeah, I know Milt was tired.
>
> Mark
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | garyloff <n27kb(at)erols.com> |
I would appreciate that when such material is sent that it be sent as an attachment
that needs to be opened so that when my very young nieces and nephews are
using the computer for their e-mail they are not automatically exposed.
It would also be appropriate to attach a warning or rating such as "adult".
Also when you send large files already opened it ties up the computer as it is
downloaded.
The kids are pretty cool and aside from a large attack of the giggles and some
soda up their noses will survive. Now, however I have to deal with their mother
who gives whole new meaning to the term battle axe.
Anyway please send all files unopened as it lets the reader decide what he wants
to read and how he wants to spend his time.
Thanks
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:00 PM
Subject: Squak
For those of you who dont believe in squaks.
They are furry little buggers who get in your cowlings, jerkoff and cause all
sorts of trouble.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
My profound apologies to all who were offended I clearly wasn't thinking of the
young ones.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: garyloff
To: N414C ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: Squak
I would appreciate that when such material is sent that it be sent as an attachment
that needs to be opened so that when my very young nieces and nephews are
using the computer for their e-mail they are not automatically exposed.
It would also be appropriate to attach a warning or rating such as "adult".
Also when you send large files already opened it ties up the computer as it is
downloaded.
The kids are pretty cool and aside from a large attack of the giggles and some
soda up their noses will survive. Now, however I have to deal with their mother
who gives whole new meaning to the term battle axe.
Anyway please send all files unopened as it lets the reader decide what he wants
to read and how he wants to spend his time.
Thanks
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:00 PM
Subject: Squak
For those of you who dont believe in squaks.
They are furry little buggers who get in your cowlings, jerkoff and cause all
sorts of trouble.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
I once was nervous and jerky, but I'm not jerky any more.
I listened to all the rookie bashing about "You can always tell the new
Commander pilots because they are jerky when they taxi".
Well, at the recommendation of Dirty Harry, I removed and cleaned the shimmy
damper. The collar on the nose strut that is attached to the scissors.
Since it is two pieces of uncoated metal rubbing against each other there is
a fair amount of corrosion and "crud"(aviation term) in between the halves.
I also removed a shim that was made of brass. That must have been put in by
a metallurgist who got bad grades.
I HAVE BEEN HEALED!!!!!!!
No more jerks
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Squak and Pics |
I'm not trying to defend Milt, and I am not trying to offend Gary.
They have both shown good humor and sense over the pictures.
HOWEVER: (God don't you hate it when I write that in all caps??)
I DID have to OPEN an attachment in order to get a look at all the
anatomically correct furry guys.
And coming from the good Doc, I really did not expect much less than what I
got.
Not anything against you Gary, but maybe your email is setup to auto open
attachments?? Mine did not. (But then again AOL pretty much sucks, and if I
was smart enough to use MSN, or ATT then I probably would.)
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Gang,The only excuse for the behavior of Milt and myself is,we're not
peverts,we're proverts,yes,we're good at it!!! BIG AL
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | An Aero Commander restoration |
Commanderland:
Take a look at the January 2002 issue of AOPA PILOT.
A great article on the Commander, T. Alan Hunt and Gary Gadberry @ Aircenter
Inc.
The value of our Commanders increased by 50%...
Take a look at the Spec sheet on page 94...
It states the value of the 500B Commander, "current" market value is
$106,000-$112,000 this is absolutly absurd...
We must educate the appraisers, (bankers) and Insurance companies.
Please send photos and a spec sheet at Insurance renewal time, as to
substantiate the value.
Gary Tillman
Aviation Ins; Brokers of North America
POB 1029
Rome, GA 30162-1028
800-228-4283
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | An Aero Commander restoratio |
The owner is Alan Hart, not Hunt.
Sorry for the TYPO
GT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Could this be the same message I tried to get across less than a month ago?
DUUUHHHH!!!! BIG AL P.S. Lucille's annual just wrapped up and after a
little swet off the old brow a thorough check over and two gaskets,she's
ready to be buttoned back up.The darndest thing was that it only cost less
than a $1,000.Now if you want to talk about comparing prices,a Navaho is
about as close as you can gat to Lucille,performance wise,cost three times
as much to buy,and an annual runs no less than 4to5,ooo.What makes
Commanders so cheap,could it be that everyone is still running scared about
the spars,or maybe the geared engines,who knows.Personally I for one cannot
replace her for what I'm getting but I assure you all,she's still worth a
lot more than that. ME
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: An Aero Commander restoration |
Commanderland:
Take a look at the January 2002 issue of AOPA PILOT.
A great article on the Commander, T. Alan Hunt and Gary Gadberry @ Aircenter
Inc.
You'll also notice on the cover another (well, four) wonderful vintage
aircraft...the Nanchang CJ-6A. We did this shoot last year at our formation
clinic prior to OSH. Have not read the article yet, but if you're looking
for a cool, fun, relatively affordable warbird that will fly circles around
the T-6 and T-34 at about half the hourly operating cost, the CJ is it!
Barry (radials forever) Hancock
Now if I could just figure out how to get those M14P's mounted on my
680E......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | COMMANDER CHRISTAMAS |
HI KIDS......
Anybody taking a Commander out "dashing through the snow"?? I
plan to fly triple 2 from 1W1 to STZ (Standpoint Idaho) for a guaranteed
"white Christmas." Then leaving Christmas Day for EUL (Caldwell Idaho) for a
little more Christmas. Plan to fly back home on Thursday. All of this is
weather permitting but it looks doable so far. If the weather is bad, we
will drive to STZ and return. I can fly all three legs of this triangle in
just under 6 hours. It take 9 hours to drive one way to STZ!!!
Hope everyone is having a great holiday, and remember what this season
is really about.........In Christ.....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An Aero Commander restoratio |
Hey Garry didn't you mean DECREASED???? by 50%
Or if you know of any 500B's for the low, low, low price of 50 to 60K PLEASE
LET ME KNOW!!!!
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Airplanes vs. women |
Airplanes can kill you quickly; a woman takes her time.
Airplanes can be turned on by a flick of a switch.
Airplanes don't get mad if you 'touch and go'.
Airplanes don't object to a preflight inspection.
Airplanes come with manuals to explain their operation.
Airplanes have strict weight and balance limits.
Airplanes can be flown any time of the month. Airplanes don't come with
in-laws.
Airplanes don't care about how many other airplanes you have flown before.
Airplanes and pilots both arrive at the same time.
Airplanes don't mind if you like to look at other airplanes.
Airplanes don't mind if you buy airplane magazines.
Airplanes expect to be tied down.
Airplanes don't comment on your piloting skills.
Airplanes don't whine unless something is really wrong.
However, when airplanes get quiet, just like women, it's not a good thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | garyloff <n27kb(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Squak and Pics |
I'm not set up for auto open as it is a sure invitation to a nasty virus.
My real concern is my young charges will not rest until they find out where
to buy them at which point there will be a price on my head
the senders if She ever finds out who you are. Rest easy for now the mail
has been deleted but having known this "women" I will tell you her rage
knows no bounds. To quote some forgettable movie "Be afraid, be very
afraid".
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: <JETPAUL(at)aol.com>
To: ;
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Squak and Pics
> I'm not trying to defend Milt, and I am not trying to offend Gary.
> They have both shown good humor and sense over the pictures.
>
> HOWEVER: (God don't you hate it when I write that in all caps??)
>
> I DID have to OPEN an attachment in order to get a look at all the
> anatomically correct furry guys.
>
> And coming from the good Doc, I really did not expect much less than what
I
> got.
>
> Not anything against you Gary, but maybe your email is setup to auto open
> attachments?? Mine did not. (But then again AOL pretty much sucks, and
if I
> was smart enough to use MSN, or ATT then I probably would.)
>
> JetPaul
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | garyloff <n27kb(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: interiors for 500B |
I'm sending my bird to Byerly for the complete Renaissance treatment. It's a
little pricey but what the heck.
Byerly is not on the coast but I would hope any of the Renaissance centers
would do comparable work.
I'm sceduled for the end of Feb. I have their written quote and it has a
describtion of everything that is done. if your interested let me know and
I'll fax it to you.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Kyle <mkyle(at)ctint.org>
To: 'commandertech(at)c2-tech.com'
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 2:06 PM
Subject: interiors for 500B
> Hello membership;
> >
> > I am currently a member of the flight group and the owner of a 500B
> (160X).
> > Can anyone recommend a good interior shop with Aero Commander experience
> > located some where on the west coast. Any suggestions or
recommendations
> > would be appreciated.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Gary,Is your wife going to let you get the pricy interior if you squeel
on you-know who(,or did you promise to buy her a new stuffed toy for X-Mas?
BIG Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Gary,Is your wife going to let you get the pricy interior(from somewhere
other than THE COAST) if you squeel on you-know who(not to mention any
names,(but his initials are M.I.L.T.) ,or did you promise to buy her a new
stuffed toy for X-Mas? BIG Al
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
OOOPPSS
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Loff <n27kb(at)erols.com> |
Milt,
I'm not offended, just scared. Their mother was raised by wolves until she was
old enough to kill them (8).
Like I said don't edit yourself just give us some warning.
The kids will survive if they ever stop giggling.
Happy holidays
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: garyloff ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: Squak
My profound apologies to all who were offended I clearly wasn't thinking of the
young ones.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: garyloff
To: N414C ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: Squak
I would appreciate that when such material is sent that it be sent as an attachment
that needs to be opened so that when my very young nieces and nephews
are using the computer for their e-mail they are not automatically exposed.
It would also be appropriate to attach a warning or rating such as "adult".
Also when you send large files already opened it ties up the computer as it
is downloaded.
The kids are pretty cool and aside from a large attack of the giggles and some
soda up their noses will survive. Now, however I have to deal with their mother
who gives whole new meaning to the term battle axe.
Anyway please send all files unopened as it lets the reader decide what he
wants to read and how he wants to spend his time.
Thanks
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:00 PM
Subject: Squak
For those of you who dont believe in squaks.
They are furry little buggers who get in your cowlings, jerkoff and cause
all sorts of trouble.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Josh Garfield <JGarfie1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An Aero Commander restoration - In latest AOPA mag. |
Yes I think you mean Decreased.... Depending on what AOPA meant in the article?
I too was very concerned about the valuation that AOPA placed on the commander
in the summary spec sheet. In the article they mention that the plane COST the
owner $227,9000 including the airplane and all the improvements. Then in the
summary spec sheet they say the plane sold new for $87,000 in 1960 and the current
market value is $106,000 to $112,000. Are they talking about the current
value of this airplane that the owner paid $227,900 for or an average 1960
AC 500B in "original" configuration? They don't make that part clear???
Josh
----- Original Message -----
From: TILLMAN333(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 12:37 PM
Subject: An Aero Commander restoration
Commanderland:
Take a look at the January 2002 issue of AOPA PILOT.
A great article on the Commander, T. Alan Hunt and Gary Gadberry @ Aircenter
Inc.
The value of our Commanders increased by 50%...
Take a look at the Spec sheet on page 94...
It states the value of the 500B Commander, "current" market value is
$106,000-$112,000 this is absolutly absurd...
We must educate the appraisers, (bankers) and Insurance companies.
Please send photos and a spec sheet at Insurance renewal time, as to substantiate
the value.
Gary Tillman
Aviation Ins; Brokers of North America
POB 1029
Rome, GA 30162-1028
800-228-4283
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: An Aero Commander restoration - In latest AOPA mag. |
Hi folks,
Being in Canada I am unable to pick up this magazine.
I do not want to circumnavigate the sales office at AOPA but could someone send
me the article?
Happy humbugs,
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Josh Garfield
To: TILLMAN333(at)aol.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 06:48
Subject: Re: An Aero Commander restoration - In latest AOPA mag.
Yes I think you mean Decreased.... Depending on what AOPA meant in the article?
I too was very concerned about the valuation that AOPA placed on the commander
in the summary spec sheet. In the article they mention that the plane COST
the owner $227,9000 including the airplane and all the improvements. Then in the
summary spec sheet they say the plane sold new for $87,000 in 1960 and the
current market value is $106,000 to $112,000. Are they talking about the current
value of this airplane that the owner paid $227,900 for or an average 1960
AC 500B in "original" configuration? They don't make that part clear???
Josh
----- Original Message -----
From: TILLMAN333(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 12:37 PM
Subject: An Aero Commander restoration
Commanderland:
Take a look at the January 2002 issue of AOPA PILOT.
A great article on the Commander, T. Alan Hunt and Gary Gadberry @ Aircenter
Inc.
The value of our Commanders increased by 50%...
Take a look at the Spec sheet on page 94...
It states the value of the 500B Commander, "current" market value is
$106,000-$112,000 this is absolutly absurd...
We must educate the appraisers, (bankers) and Insurance companies.
Please send photos and a spec sheet at Insurance renewal time, as to substantiate
the value.
Gary Tillman
Aviation Ins; Brokers of North America
POB 1029
Rome, GA 30162-1028
800-228-4283
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lowell Girod <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
> Got this from an Ole AF Buddy,
Don
> > Subject: Rescue
> >
> >
> > > Subject: B-1 Crash/Rescue in Indian Ocean
> > >
> > > A good read from the rescurer's point of view.
> > >
> > > As everyone knows, we had a busy night. No matter what you hear on the
> > > news, this is the story:
> > >
> > > We watched on radar and talked on radio to this B-1 that left Diego
> > > Garcia around 2100 hours last night. At about 100 nautical miles out,
> > > they called in an emergency. One of their engines was out and they
> > > couldn't get it going again. They turned around and started heading
> > > back, stating that they were okay and that they would get back to D.G.
> > > and fly around the island a little to burn off extra, then land. They
> > > didn't make it back. Shortly after the u-turn, they disappeared from
our
> > > scopes without a trace.
> > >
> > > It's close to 2200 when this goes down and the Captain gets on the
> > > announcing system to tell us what happened. We head straight for their
> > > last position at over 30 mph. On our way there, we started preparing
for
> > > the worst. We manned up our two RHIB's (rigid hulled inflatable boats)
> > > with a whole bunch of guys and gear. We had night vision gear,
blankets,
> > > first aid, stretchers, Gatorade (they were pretty happy about the
> > > Gatorade), and a whole bunch of other stuff. Each boat had a corpsman
> > > (for medical help), signalman (in case the radios died), engineer (to
> > > fix the boat), officer (to be in charge), coxswain (he drives the
RHIB),
> > > a seaman (to do anything the coxswain says), and a rescue swimmer to
> > > bring the pilots out of the water.
> > >
> > > Onboard the ship, they are preparing stretchers and stretcher bearers.
> > > All sorts of lookouts are being manned. It was a pretty hectic
transit.
> > >
> > > So the CO gets on the announcing system again, and tells us what he
> > > knows. "A B-1 went down. They have a crew of four. We are talking to
one
> > > of the pilots on his rescue radio. He is in his life raft and doing
> > > okay. He can hear voices around him. Where they are is a shallow area
> > > that the ship can't get to. We are going to stop about 5 - 10 miles
away
> > > and send the RHIB's down the bearing to the pilots." Just when we stop
> > > and begin to put the RHIB's in the water, he gets on again. "Two
pilots
> > > are now together and in their rafts and doing okay. They can hear
voices
> > > around them still." So I'm now thinking that all four are accounted
for
> > > and alive and talking. This is good.
> > >
> > > We dropped the RHIB's into the water. Mine went in second. Then, it
> > > didn't start... but that's what the engineer is for. It only took a
few
> > > minutes to discover a loose cable on the battery. We got going a mile
or
> > > two behind the other RHIB. On our way out, we could smell all of the
jet
> > > fuel. All I was thinking was that I hope I don't have to swim in it.
> > > After about 7 miles, the other RHIB said that they had found the two
> > > that were talking on the radio. We slowed down a bit and begin to
close
> > > in on their location. We were looking all around. So were the planes.
> > > There were three planes all doing low flying runs this way and that
with
> > > their landing lights on. It was kind of wild.
> > >
> > > As I watched the water that one was lighting up I saw a flash. As the
> > > plane flew by and the area darkened, it was easy to see a strobe light
> > > not too far from us. We jammed straight for it. When we got closer and
> > > slowed down, we saw that it was indeed a pilot. He said that he was
> > > okay, so we just leaned over and pulled him in. The ejection process
is
> > > a pretty violent evolution. He had 'rope burns' on his arm and neck
and
> > > face from various straps and stuff pulling tight when the chute
opened.
> > > He was pretty stiff and sore, too. Also, he didn't have his raft. It
was
> > > torn away from him at some point before he got to the water.
> > >
> > > At this point we were told to transfer our guy to the other RHIB with
> > > the two guys in it. Then, they were going to take them back and we
would
> > > stay and look for the fourth. As we were about to start over to meet
the
> > > other RHIB, we saw a flare. All three pilots said, don't worry about
us,
> > > lets go get our buddy. So, both boats headed straight for him. We got
> > > there about the same time as the other one. We decided that we'd pick
> > > him up to even out the loads in the RHIB. I actually got to get into
the
> > > water for this one.
> > >
> > > The guy was in his raft and we didn't want to get too close because we
> > > might foul our prop on his parachute or sea anchor. I jumped in and
swam
> > > up to him. "Good evening, my name is Jim and I'll be your Rescue
Swimmer
> > > for the evening." It got me a smile and a chuckle - this guy is okay,
> > > too. He asked me what the drill is to get him out of the raft and into
> > > the RHIB. I tell him that he rolls out and I give him my floatation
> > > device. Roger that. He rolls out and grabs the SAR-1 (floatation
> > > device), I grab him, and we kick over to the boat. They lifted him
into
> > > the RHIB and we were on our way. Mission complete, job well done.
> > >
> > > On the way back, they told us what happened. Once their engine failed,
> > > other systems started dropping offline, too. They were down to one
> > > generator when the last straw came. The attitude (not altitude)
> > > indicator malfunctioned. Now they couldn't tell if they were flying
> > > level or not. And when they did figure it out, they were flying upside
> > > down and heading for the water. At night with calm seas and the stars
> > > reflecting on the water, it looks like sky all around. So they all
> > > ejected at over 15,000 feet. Kind of a wild story... Anyhow, the CO
gave
> > > us a holiday routine today, so I am going back to bed.
> > >
> > > This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from
> > > http://www.printcharger.com/emailStripper.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
--- Lowell Girod
--- dongirod(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS......
Welcome a new member to the TCFG. Don Albright is the new owner
of 500A, Colemill airplane. Don's business is home lending and his office
and home are in Auburn CA. Welcome Don! And Merry
Christmas.......................jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NEW MEMBER!! |
In a message dated 12/22/01 6:16:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com writes:
<<
HI KIDS......
Welcome a new member to the TCFG. Don Albright is the new
owner
of 500A, Colemill airplane. Don's business is home lending and his office
and home are in Auburn CA. Welcome Don! And Merry
Christmas.......................jb
>>
DON - SINCE I HAVE A 500A COLEMILL ALSO I WILL BE INTERESTED IN YOUR
PERFORMANCE FIGURES.
JIM FURLONG
FURLONG5(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NEW MEMBER!! |
Hi Don!
A warm welcome indeed to the Flight Group.
Is your Commander serial number 1266-89, N207AC?
If not, let us know!
Very Best Regards,
Barry Collman
UK Commanderland rep.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 2:03 AM
Subject: NEW MEMBER!!
| HI KIDS......
|
| Welcome a new member to the TCFG. Don Albright is the new owner
| of 500A, Colemill airplane. Don's business is home lending and his office
| and home are in Auburn CA. Welcome Don! And Merry
| Christmas.......................jb
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Merry Christmas All! |
G'day all!
A big Commanderland Happy Christmas to all from Downunder!
On reflection...what a great year it has been, a lot of activity in
Commanderland Downunder. We must all be proud of the great group we have
put together and be strongly committed to the future! Christmas is a great
time to plan our attendance at the 2002 TCFG Flyin in October...make it the
first entry in your new diary and tell some of your Commander mates about
it...just go and bug Captjb for final details and roasted corncob locations!
Please join me all in a special thankyou to Capt Jimbob as he departs on his
triangular winter wanderings to Idaho in 'triple 2', Website Guru Chris,
Wing Commander Keith and Sir Barry for their cornerstone work in furthering
the might of our TCFG... Well done guys...champers to all!
Big Al...you're just too much of a redneck and thank God you have Milt to
watch after you and Lucille!
'Ol Crunck...make sure you pack some fresh cotton cloth in the bottom of lil
Crunck's stocking...oil slicks take on a different meaning during
festivities.
My glass is raised to Yoda and Dick Wartinger... two grand custodians among
many...low and slow guys!
Christmas in Darwin will consist of high humidity and thunderstorms all
over...good Commander weather and the kiss of death to many iced beers and
ciders!
Christmas in Sydney...well...
May you all look at the bottom of your stockings and find just a 'shirt'
jumping out at you!
Take care all!
Cheers and beers
Russell & Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
With the various time differences around the World, now is probably about right
to send everybody on the Chatlist my sincere Best Wishes for the forthcoming
Festive Season, Christmas and the New Year.
2001 was a year to remember, some of the memories engraved forever, sadly for
the wrong reason.
But, looking on the bright side though, there was the TCFG Fly-In at Hillsboro!
Those few days will also be indelibly marked on the memory cells.
Where & when is next year's Capt Jimbob? I can't wait!!
Kindest Regards to All,
Barry C
UK Commanderland rep.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL |
HI KIDS....
In a few minutes we will climb into triple 2 for the first leg
of out journey. The weather hear is spectacular! Severe clean and Mt Hood
looks beautiful! In rout, we will be on top at 11.5. There is fog and the
roads are covered in snow below us, but we wont be worrying about that high
above in the sunshine. The weather at the destination is also clear.
We are flying to Sandpiont Idaho (SZT) a few miles south of the
Canadian border where there is already a couple of feet of snow, so a white
Christmas is a sure thing.
TCFG member Lou Tran called this AM to wish me A happy Holiday and
said he was on the way to the airport in MI to fly to NC for Christmas in his
500. It is 400 overcast a 2 miles there!!
Thanks you all for your support and keeping the TCFG alive and well
and growing. Thanks to TCAC and Jim Matheson and Jeff Cousins for the
acceptance of our group. Thanks to all of you who traveled do far to attend
this years flyin, I am still humbled that you would come so far.
I hope each of you will take time this season and remember why we, as
Christian nation, celebrate this wonderful season. It is to honor the birth
of the most important man in human history, Jesus Christ. It is his birth,
death on the cross and resurrection that gives all of mankind hope for the
future. More than any other man, for more than 2000 years, his birth has
change history. Please stop and remember that amazing event.
Thank you all and I pray that each of you will have a wonderful and
glorios Christmas ..............Love and in Christ Capt jimbob & Suebob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL |
ALAS!!!!! being brand new on the B-717 has taken it's toll on my Cristmas
time this year. I am leaving tomorrow morning at 0600 and won't be home
untill the afternoon of the 27th. But the good news is that with 2 kids
under 4 they don't know what day it is anyway!!! So Santa came to my house
LAST NIGHT!!!!!( I might not get those inventions to market, but I beat all
you loosers to CHRISTMAS!!!!) Please take a second to remember what this is
all about, and NEVER ABBR. CRISTMAS WITH AN X AGAIN!!!!!! JESUS IS THE
REASON FOR THE SEASON!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!AND TO ALL A GOOD FLIGHT!!!!!!
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earthlink <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL |
Can I say it PLEASE.....I hate this holiday...BAH Humbug....someone has to
be the sayer of doom and gloom.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skydoc07(at)aol.com <Skydoc07(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airplane seen N698G |
<< COMMANDER
>>
Hi gang...In Stockton, CA looking about the hangers again and saw (I think
the numbers are correct...) N698G...or was it 689F?....this is a 500A
converted to 500B. It is in SCK for some metal work I understand. It looks
great from the outside. Who belongs to this?
a newer member and current Bellanca owner anxious for a 500B in two
years...Daryl Wilkins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Josh Garfield <JGarfie1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | 1960 AC 500B in AOPA this month. |
Dear Commander Group.
I contacted the Author of the AOPA article about the 1960 AC 500B. The "current
value" he mentions of 106,000 to 112,000 is not for Alan Hart's airplane that
cost $217,900 to put together but was just the current value (from AOPA VREF)
of an average 1960 AC 500B in orriginal configuration in average condition.
Alan Hart's 500B from the Article would sell for much more than that.
Mery Christmas to all,
Josh
(below is the email exchange)
------ Response from Author, ----------------
Josh,
Those are bluebook/Vref valuations. I think Alan Hart's airplane would fetch much
more, given all that he's done with it.
In other words, the value is for an average condition 500B.
Thanks for writing,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Garfield
I am a frequent flyer of a 1959 AC 560E. Your recent article was very interesting.
I have a question about the current value of the 1960 500B in your article.
In the article you mention that owner spent 217,000 on the airplane and improvements.
Then in the specsheet summary box you say that the airplane sold for
87,000 new back in 1960. And that the current value is 106,000 to 112,000????
Those numbers are confusing.
Are you talking about the appraised value of the restored 500B that the owner
put 217,000 into or a 500b in original configuration in average condition???
Thanks Josh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL |
OK then.... HAPPY HUMBUGS!
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earthlink" <woodlema(at)intrex.net>
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 17:14
Subject: Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL
> Can I say it PLEASE.....I hate this holiday...BAH Humbug....someone has to
> be the sayer of doom and gloom.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lowell Girod <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL |
Commander Gentlemen:
I love this season and the reason was explained quite eloquently by Capt.
Jimbob.
Don
> [Original Message]
> From: Earthlink <woodlema(at)intrex.net>
> To: ;
> Date: 12/23/01 5:14:15 PM
> Subject: Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL
>
> Can I say it PLEASE.....I hate this holiday...BAH Humbug....someone has to
> be the sayer of doom and gloom.
--- Lowell Girod
--- dongirod(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Gang,Happy Holidays.To keep from making a total mess(who MEEEE)out of a
great little poem,please tune your computors to http://www.floridapilot.com/
and check out the poem.Best Wishes to All
BIG AL & LUCILLE
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)lycos.com> |
subscribe
--
Click here for your very own create-a-date adventure from MatchMaker
Go to http://ecard.matchmaker.com/dating.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twas The Night |
Very, very cute, Big Al - Jim Jorgensen (Seattle)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: An Aero Commander restoration - In latest AOPA mag. |
Hi All!
I guess it would be difficult for me to get a copy too. Will anbybody be
willing to send me a copy of the magazine?
I will, of course, be more than happy to reimburse all expenses.
Thanks!
Best Regards,
Barry
Tom Fisher
commanderchat-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com,
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
22/12/2001 16:29 cc:
Please respond to Subject: Re: An Aero Commander
restoration -
tfisher In latest AOPA mag.
Hi folks,
Being in Canada I am unable to pick up this magazine.
I do not want to circumnavigate the sales office at AOPA but could someone
send me the article?
Happy humbugs,
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Josh Garfield
To: TILLMAN333(at)aol.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 06:48
Subject: Re: An Aero Commander restoration - In latest AOPA mag.
Yes I think you mean Decreased.... Depending on what AOPA meant in the
article?
I too was very concerned about the valuation that AOPA placed on the
commander in the summary spec sheet. In the article they mention that the
plane COST the owner $227,9000 including the airplane and all the
improvements. Then in the summary spec sheet they say the plane sold new
for $87,000 in 1960 and the current market value is $106,000 to $112,000.
Are they talking about the current value of this airplane that the owner
paid $227,900 for or an average 1960 AC 500B in "original" configuration?
They don't make that part clear???
Josh
----- Original Message -----
From: TILLMAN333(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 12:37 PM
Subject: An Aero Commander restoration
Commanderland:
Take a look at the January 2002 issue of AOPA PILOT.
A great article on the Commander, T. Alan Hunt and Gary Gadberry @
Aircenter Inc.
The value of our Commanders increased by 50%...
Take a look at the Spec sheet on page 94...
It states the value of the 500B Commander, "current" market value is
$106,000-$112,000 this is absolutly absurd...
We must educate the appraisers, (bankers) and Insurance companies.
Please send photos and a spec sheet at Insurance renewal time, as to
substantiate the value.
Gary Tillman
Aviation Ins; Brokers of North America
POB 1029
Rome, GA 30162-1028
800-228-4283
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | AOPA magazine article |
Hi All!
I've just realised that as I will not be able to access this email facility
from about 2hrs time, until one week today, I ought to let you know that
Gary Loff has most kindly offered to send me a copy of the AOPA magazine
article.
I would hate to think that any other replies are seen to be totally
ignored. I should, of course, have waited until I got home before making
the request.
Very Best Wishes,
Barry C.
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY
If you are not the intended recipient or employee or agent responsible for
return. Any distribution or copying of this document by anyone other than
the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. Airclaims cannot be held
responsible for any alterations made to this document, intentionally or
Airclaims Limited, Registered Office: Cardinal Point, Newall Road, Heathrow
Airport, Hounslow, Middlesex, TW6 2AS. Company Registration No. 710284
England and Wales.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airplane seen N698G |
Hi Daryl,
The Commander you saw was probably N698R, serial 910, which was built as a Model
500A, serial 910-19 and converted to a Model 500B on December 3rd 1963.
It is currently registered to 'Rivkin', which I believe is the trading name of
Vladimir Rivkin, of San Jose, California.
His registered address is:
2787 Moorpark Avenue, San Jose, CA 95128-3154.
Hope that's of some help, and you eventually find the 500B with your name on it!
Very Best Regards,
Barry Collman
UK Commanderland rep.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Skydoc07(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: airplane seen N698G
|
| << COMMANDER
|
| >>
|
| Hi gang...In Stockton, CA looking about the hangers again and saw (I think
| the numbers are correct...) N698G...or was it 689F?....this is a 500A
| converted to 500B. It is in SCK for some metal work I understand. It looks
| great from the outside. Who belongs to this?
|
| a newer member and current Bellanca owner anxious for a 500B in two
| years...Daryl Wilkins
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Happy Holidays to All |
I want to wish all a Merry Christmas. To others, Bah Humbug.
I want to report about a great meeting of the TCFG in Bonaire, NV. Last week,
I was in Bonaire for more meetings and Ricardo Otaola came to the island in
Popeye II, his 680F. It is one thing to see photo's on the web, it is another
to sit in it. This is a very good example of a 680F.
This 680F has a 210 gallon center tank that I have not seen in any other Twin
Commander. The baggage compartment ends just above the door and the fuel tank
begins.
Ricardo is looking for red leather to replace the origional leather that is
showing some age. The paint and engines are in excellent condition. In contrast,
on the field was a much newer Arrow that would not pass annual inspection because
of corrosion. It is all in how one take care of things. Popeye II is a one
owner airplane and that one owner has taken very good care of it.
Ricardo and a friend flew to Bonaire for lunch. We went down to the waterfront
and had a great time. His friend (please excuse me, I did not remember his
name and he only spoke Spanish, but he does own a 500B) has a 500 B and they
discribed it has having extensive rework to his panel. I hope to see photos.
They went home with many bottles with names on them like "Gold Lable" and such.
It took us a cart to haul it to the airplane. It filled the baggage compartment.
It is cheaper there.
Ricardo reports that his brother is trading in his 690 for a newer 900. If
next years TCFG flyin is in the east, we will all get to look at Popeye II.
I find it very interesting to travel to many places far apart and find new friends
with common interest even across different languages.
I am in Seattle for the Holidays and will be getting with Mr. RPM, Dick MacCoon.
Merry Christmas,
Tylor Hall
913-485-3799
ps, Yes I was in Bonaire for real business reasions, not playing around (no
golf on the island), and enjoyed my self.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Military Gold Star Mothers |
>From: "private jones" <b727man(at)hotmail.com>
>To: AClay(at)usa3000airlines.com, allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com,
>butterfly_264(at)hotmail.com, amy_smith1(at)yahoo.com, Beaniebon17(at)aol.com,
>bholt620(at)earthlink.net, c12sip(at)aol.com, Callina123(at)aol.com,
>callen3201(at)aol.com, CravensCty(at)aol.com, ctro(at)att.net, minnowmama(at)aol.com,
>DCMSR911(at)aol.com, dtaylr(at)mindspring.com, djwall(at)miami.edu,
>DJohns29(at)aol.com, ew2121(at)hotmail.com, fsans80092(at)cfl.rr.com,
>i1afly(at)showme.net, jru_ing(at)hotmail.com, jacksfamily(at)mindspring.com,
>jrhorst(at)yahoo.com, mark_strebe(at)msn.com, Marydonna7(at)aol.com,
>mbove68563(at)aol.com, mlee_usa(at)hotmail.com, neutrnstar(at)hotmail.com,
>offwork2(at)excite.com, pgoins4568(at)aol.com, browneyes_134(at)hotmail.com,
>scottp65(at)att.net, southerngrl(at)hotmail.com, step_neely(at)hotmail.com,
>Theodora.Kessaris(at)faa.gov, TNYANKEE3(at)home.com, tstomlin(at)att.net,
>wildb1(at)hotmail.com, xdenvergal(at)hotmail.com
>Subject: Fwd: FW: Military Gold Star Mothers
>Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 16:41:30 +0000
>
>
>>Subject: Military Gold Star Mothers>
>>Subject: Fw: Fw: Dislikes Gold Star Mothers
>>
>>
>>
>> > Gold Star Mothers is an organization made up of women whose sons were
>> > >killed in military combat during service in the United States armed
>> > >forces.
>> > >
>> > >Recently a delegation of New York State Gold Star Mothers made a trip
>>to
>> > >Washington, DC to discuss various concerns with their elected
>> > >representatives.
>> > >
>> > >According to NewsMax.com there was only one politician in DC who
>>refused
>> > >to meet with these ladies. Can you guess which politician that might
>>be?
>> > >
>> > >Was it New York Senator Charles Schumer? Nope, he met with them. Try
>> > >again.
>> > >Do you know anyone serving in the Senate who has never showed anything
>> > >but contempt for our military? Do you happen to know the name of any
>> > >politician in Washington who's husband once wrote of his loathing of
>>the
>>military?
>> > >Now you're getting warm! You got it! None other than the Queen
>>herself,
>> > >Hillary Clinton. She refused repeated requests to meet with the Gold
>>Star
>>
>> > >Mothers.
>> > >Now --- please don't tell me you're surprised. This woman wants to be
>> > >president of the United States --- and there is a huge percentage of
>>the
>> > >voters who are eager to help her achieve that.
>> > >
>> > >Sincerely,
>> > >
>> > >Cdr Hamilton McWhorter USN(ret)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Please forward this to as many people as you can. We don't want this
>> > >woman
>> > >to even think of running for President..
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | garyloff <n27kb(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Military Gold Star Mothers |
I'm not a Hillary fan to say the least however how do we know this is true?
Who is the sender and what is his source?
I can make up anything about anyone and put it on the net and poof it must
be true.
I have no idea whether or not this incident happened and if it did happen
waht were the circumstances. Was she even in town? Say what you like about
the Clintons they are not political dummies or neophytes. It's hard for me
to imagine especially in the highy patriotic atomosphere that currently
prevails that the junior Senator from new York would refuse such a meeting.
Maybe she did, but until I see actual documentation from a 3rd party I'll
take this for what it is, a unsubstantiated rumor from soomeone I don't know
or have never heard of.
It's about time we all do so some critical thinking and anaylsis of what we
read and not accept it just because it happens to something negative about
someone we dislike.
I've got to run as it's past 3 and this is my scheduled time to be abducted
by aliens.
Happy holidays.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 1:15 PM
Subject: Fwd: FW: Military Gold Star Mothers
>
>
> >From: "private jones" <b727man(at)hotmail.com>
> >To: AClay(at)usa3000airlines.com, allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com,
> >butterfly_264(at)hotmail.com, amy_smith1(at)yahoo.com, Beaniebon17(at)aol.com,
> >bholt620(at)earthlink.net, c12sip(at)aol.com, Callina123(at)aol.com,
> >callen3201(at)aol.com, CravensCty(at)aol.com, ctro(at)att.net, minnowmama(at)aol.com,
> >DCMSR911(at)aol.com, dtaylr(at)mindspring.com, djwall(at)miami.edu,
> >DJohns29(at)aol.com, ew2121(at)hotmail.com, fsans80092(at)cfl.rr.com,
> >i1afly(at)showme.net, jru_ing(at)hotmail.com, jacksfamily(at)mindspring.com,
> >jrhorst(at)yahoo.com, mark_strebe(at)msn.com, Marydonna7(at)aol.com,
> >mbove68563(at)aol.com, mlee_usa(at)hotmail.com, neutrnstar(at)hotmail.com,
> >offwork2(at)excite.com, pgoins4568(at)aol.com, browneyes_134(at)hotmail.com,
> >scottp65(at)att.net, southerngrl(at)hotmail.com, step_neely(at)hotmail.com,
> >Theodora.Kessaris(at)faa.gov, TNYANKEE3(at)home.com, tstomlin(at)att.net,
> >wildb1(at)hotmail.com, xdenvergal(at)hotmail.com
> >Subject: Fwd: FW: Military Gold Star Mothers
> >Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 16:41:30 +0000
> >
> >
> >>Subject: Military Gold Star Mothers>
> >>Subject: Fw: Fw: Dislikes Gold Star Mothers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Gold Star Mothers is an organization made up of women whose sons were
> >> > >killed in military combat during service in the United States armed
> >> > >forces.
> >> > >
> >> > >Recently a delegation of New York State Gold Star Mothers made a
trip
> >>to
> >> > >Washington, DC to discuss various concerns with their elected
> >> > >representatives.
> >> > >
> >> > >According to NewsMax.com there was only one politician in DC who
> >>refused
> >> > >to meet with these ladies. Can you guess which politician that might
> >>be?
> >> > >
> >> > >Was it New York Senator Charles Schumer? Nope, he met with them. Try
> >> > >again.
> >> > >Do you know anyone serving in the Senate who has never showed
anything
> >> > >but contempt for our military? Do you happen to know the name of any
> >> > >politician in Washington who's husband once wrote of his loathing of
> >>the
> >>military?
> >> > >Now you're getting warm! You got it! None other than the Queen
> >>herself,
> >> > >Hillary Clinton. She refused repeated requests to meet with the Gold
> >>Star
> >>
> >> > >Mothers.
> >> > >Now --- please don't tell me you're surprised. This woman wants to
be
> >> > >president of the United States --- and there is a huge percentage of
> >>the
> >> > >voters who are eager to help her achieve that.
> >> > >
> >> > >Sincerely,
> >> > >
> >> > >Cdr Hamilton McWhorter USN(ret)
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >Please forward this to as many people as you can. We don't want this
> >> > >woman
> >> > >to even think of running for President..
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Military Gold Star Mothers = FALSE |
Follow this link: http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/outrage/goldstar.htm to see
the Urban Legend report on this falsehood. People must have nothing better
to do than to make this junk up....
Merry Christmas all,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "garyloff" <n27kb(at)erols.com>
To: "Allen Reed" ;
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Military Gold Star Mothers
> I'm not a Hillary fan to say the least however how do we know this is
true?
> Who is the sender and what is his source?
>
> I can make up anything about anyone and put it on the net and poof it must
> be true.
>
> I have no idea whether or not this incident happened and if it did happen
> waht were the circumstances. Was she even in town? Say what you like about
> the Clintons they are not political dummies or neophytes. It's hard for me
> to imagine especially in the highy patriotic atomosphere that currently
> prevails that the junior Senator from new York would refuse such a
meeting.
> Maybe she did, but until I see actual documentation from a 3rd party I'll
> take this for what it is, a unsubstantiated rumor from soomeone I don't
know
> or have never heard of.
>
> It's about time we all do so some critical thinking and anaylsis of what
we
> read and not accept it just because it happens to something negative about
> someone we dislike.
>
> I've got to run as it's past 3 and this is my scheduled time to be
abducted
> by aliens.
>
> Happy holidays.
>
> Gary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 1:15 PM
> Subject: Fwd: FW: Military Gold Star Mothers
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "private jones" <b727man(at)hotmail.com>
> > >To: AClay(at)usa3000airlines.com, allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com,
> > >butterfly_264(at)hotmail.com, amy_smith1(at)yahoo.com, Beaniebon17(at)aol.com,
> > >bholt620(at)earthlink.net, c12sip(at)aol.com, Callina123(at)aol.com,
> > >callen3201(at)aol.com, CravensCty(at)aol.com, ctro(at)att.net,
minnowmama(at)aol.com,
> > >DCMSR911(at)aol.com, dtaylr(at)mindspring.com, djwall(at)miami.edu,
> > >DJohns29(at)aol.com, ew2121(at)hotmail.com, fsans80092(at)cfl.rr.com,
> > >i1afly(at)showme.net, jru_ing(at)hotmail.com, jacksfamily(at)mindspring.com,
> > >jrhorst(at)yahoo.com, mark_strebe(at)msn.com, Marydonna7(at)aol.com,
> > >mbove68563(at)aol.com, mlee_usa(at)hotmail.com, neutrnstar(at)hotmail.com,
> > >offwork2(at)excite.com, pgoins4568(at)aol.com, browneyes_134(at)hotmail.com,
> > >scottp65(at)att.net, southerngrl(at)hotmail.com, step_neely(at)hotmail.com,
> > >Theodora.Kessaris(at)faa.gov, TNYANKEE3(at)home.com, tstomlin(at)att.net,
> > >wildb1(at)hotmail.com, xdenvergal(at)hotmail.com
> > >Subject: Fwd: FW: Military Gold Star Mothers
> > >Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 16:41:30 +0000
> > >
> > >
> > >>Subject: Military Gold Star Mothers>
> > >>Subject: Fw: Fw: Dislikes Gold Star Mothers
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Gold Star Mothers is an organization made up of women whose sons
were
> > >> > >killed in military combat during service in the United States
armed
> > >> > >forces.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Recently a delegation of New York State Gold Star Mothers made a
> trip
> > >>to
> > >> > >Washington, DC to discuss various concerns with their elected
> > >> > >representatives.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >According to NewsMax.com there was only one politician in DC who
> > >>refused
> > >> > >to meet with these ladies. Can you guess which politician that
might
> > >>be?
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Was it New York Senator Charles Schumer? Nope, he met with them.
Try
> > >> > >again.
> > >> > >Do you know anyone serving in the Senate who has never showed
> anything
> > >> > >but contempt for our military? Do you happen to know the name of
any
> > >> > >politician in Washington who's husband once wrote of his loathing
of
> > >>the
> > >>military?
> > >> > >Now you're getting warm! You got it! None other than the Queen
> > >>herself,
> > >> > >Hillary Clinton. She refused repeated requests to meet with the
Gold
> > >>Star
> > >>
> > >> > >Mothers.
> > >> > >Now --- please don't tell me you're surprised. This woman wants to
> be
> > >> > >president of the United States --- and there is a huge percentage
of
> > >>the
> > >> > >voters who are eager to help her achieve that.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Sincerely,
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Cdr Hamilton McWhorter USN(ret)
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Please forward this to as many people as you can. We don't want
this
> > >> > >woman
> > >> > >to even think of running for President..
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | garyloff <n27kb(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Urban Legends Reference Pages Inboxer Rebellion (Gold |
Star Mothers)
Urban Legends Reference Pages: Inboxer Rebellion (Gold Star Mothers)
Gold Star Mothers
Claim: New York Senator Hillary Clinton was the "only politician
in DC who refused to meet with" a delegation of Gold Star mothers.
Status: False.
Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2001]
Bet this never hits the TV news!
Gold Star Mothers is an organization made up of women
whose sons were killed in military combat during service in the United States
Armed Forces. Recently a delegation of New York State Gold Star Mothers made
a trip to Washington, DC to discuss various concerns with their elected representatives.
According to NewsMax.com there was only one politician in DC who refused
to meet with these ladies. Can you guess which politician that might be?
Was it New York Senator Charles Schumer? Nope, he met
with them. Try again. Do you know anyone serving in the Senate who has never
showed anything but contempt for our military? Do you happen to know the name
of any politician in Washington whose husband once wrote of his loathing of the
military?
Now you're getting warm! None other than the Queen herself
- the Hildebeast, Hillary Clinton. She refused repeated requests to meet
with the Gold Star Mothers.
Now - please don't tell me you're surprised. This woman
wants to be president of the United States - and there is a huge percentage
of the voters who are anxious to help her achieve that.
Origins: Ah, a week without another anti-Clintonian screed
full of Newsmaxian hyperbole would be like a day without smog. The piece quoted
above began as a 26 May 2001 "Hillary Snubs Gold Star Mothers" article on NewsMax.com
which claimed that:
New York chapter president Shirley Jones and member Mary
Wheeler, both of upstate New York . . . had been in Washington visiting Senate
offices. The only office that refused to meet with the Gold Star Mothers
was none other than Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. She and her staff simply refused
to meet with them.
The e-mail quoted above takes the invective to an ever higher
level, maintaining that Hillary Clinton was not just the only senator who wouldn't
give the Gold Star mothers the time of day, but the "only politician in
DC who refused to meet with these ladies." (Even just calling upon all the senators
in Washington would have required this delegation of two women to visit
one hundred separate offices; most likely they were only calling upon congressmen
and senators representing the state of New York.)
The incident referred to in the NewsMax.com article took place
on 27 February 2001, when the two women (New York chapter president Shirley
Jones and member Mary Wheeler) dropped by Ms. Clinton's congressional office to
discuss a proposed bill to provide annuities to the parents of servicemen killed
in action. However, they stopped by without an appointment, on a day when
the senator was not in her office, as confirmed by the response inquiries about
this piece drew from the American Gold Star Mothers organization:
The American Gold Star Mothers, Inc., deeply regret the
misunderstanding about Senator Hillary Clinton. The two mothers who visited
Washington did not have an appointment with the Senator and she was not in her
office on that day.
We would appreciate it if the e-mails and negative comments
about Senator Clinton would cease.
Georgianna Carter-Krell
National President
Miffed that no one else in the senator's office offered to help
them or hear them out, and that their follow-up letter to Senator Clinton drew
no response, the two Gold Star mothers made the comments that formed the basis
of the NewsMax.com article. As the Albany Times Union reported, though, it
was essentially the attitude of a receptionist in Ms. Clinton's congressional
office that drew their ire:
"It got blown out of proportion, in a way," Gold Star
Mother Shirley Jones said of a flurry of nationwide carping about New York's
junior senator after Jones made a few offhand remarks about her organization's
reception at U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton's Capitol Hill office in February. Jones
. . . said she and another mother were disappointed when they stopped by Clinton's
office to lobby for legislation to provide annuities for Gold Star parents
and weren't even given a few moments with a staff member. She said Clinton's
receptionist seemed oblivious to Gold Star Mothers, the Vietnam War and the
losses American families suffered because of it.
Clinton's office is apologetic about the slight, saying
the senator's temporary basement office was understaffed during her first months
in office and the staff has since reached out to communicate with Jones
about the legislation.
Last updated: 7 August 2001
The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/goldstar.htm
Urban Legends Reference Pages 1995-2001
by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson
This material may not be reproduced without permission
Sources:
Limbacher, Carl. "Hillary Snubs Gold Star Mothers."
NewsMax.com. 26 May 2001.
[Albany] Times Union. "Clinton Smooths Out Gold Star Flap."
3 August 2001.
Outrage
Inboxer Rebellion
Search Send comments
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks Guys, I Immedietly forwarded ya'lls reply to the origi-anal
sender.Glad ya'll have the meens to follow up on these things.Merry X-Mas!
BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | w.bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
Was any body on this list near the Flagler County Airport, Daytona Fl., on
Christmas day at about 4:15 PM?
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
I was at home hiding during this humbug of a holiday. BTW. I have a flight
story to tell.
I departed from KHRJ this afternoon on my trip to Michigan to have my heater
installed. I was happily muddling along at a nice lumbersone ground speed
of 156kts. (not bad at 60% power at 6500 ft.)
I had been getting flight following from my point of departure, as I usually
do on those severe clear (VFR) days. I contacted Greensboro (GSO) Approach
and they had asked me for a point about 50 miles past there so I could get a
clean hand off. I provided an airport, and then asked to just make it a VFR
flight plan. Well, just as I gave them a mid point airport for the flight
plan, I smelled a sweet odor, almost like automotive anti-freeze. Well,
this is not a liquid cooled engine, even if it was i would not be smelling
anything sinece the engines are not in front of me. I scanned my guages
and did not notice anything really unusual. Then I heard the sound of a LOT
of air, and my airspeed dropped about 20kts. Ok, I thought, guages look ok,
lets look outside the airplane.
Well, lookie here. My gear was half way down. I checked my landing gear
lever, and it was up and locked. I looked at my hydraulic pressure, and it
was holding at about 650psi. Ok, lets use the hand pump and see if it comes
back up. Well no go. Pressure continued to fall to nothing. I looked to
see if I was traling any smoke, or if any of that neat pinkish red colored
5606 hydraulic oil was streaming down the sides of the nacells. Well
nothing unusual there either. I reported to GSO approach that I had lost
all hydraulic pressure, and was putting my landing gear down. I slowed the
airplane to 120kts. and the gear came down and both sets of gear indicators
reported down and locked. I then told GSO that gear was down and locked, I
had 125 gal of fuel, and to please put me in on a normal approach.
They assigned my runway 5 clear to land and offered to let me circle till I
burnt off more fuel. With 125 gallons that would have taken a while and who
knows what else could have happened.
Well I was on a perfect base to runway 32, and requested to land on runway
32. The confused tower asked why. Well, I told them that this plane can
come in VERY slow, and I would have not problem at all rolling to a complete
stop long before the end of the runway, but IF, I did have a problem, I
would not be causing undue problems for the commercial traffic on runway 5.
GSO is a pretty busy airport. So they cleared me to land Runway 32. I
greased the landing, crossing the threshhold at 80mph on the nose (VMC) and
rolled to a stop within 2000 ft. of touching down with 3000 ft of runway
left. Mind you no hydrailic pressure means No flaps, No steering, No
brakes. I used a bit of right engine to keep the plan from drifintg off the
right into the grass.
Here is where diagonstics comes in. Since I saw NO unsual smoke trails
behind me, or off the nacells, and no power fluctuations in the engines. and
having smelled that sweet smell, which happened to be 5606 fluid I conluded
that a hydraulic line had busted onder the nose. This is exactly what had
happened. The nose wheel steering line broke spewing out all my hydraulic
fluid. All in all an uneventful unplanned landing. Still I did learn a
great deal about myself and how I handle what could be an emergency.
I did not panic, I FLEW THE PLANE, I treated everything as normal, except I
did not have flaps, brakes, or steering. I always wondered what would
happen in the event of a REAL event. Grant it, this was not a catastrophic
engine failure, or anything as severe as that or even a fire, but it was
still an unplanned systems failure.
So many things ran through my mind all at the same time. Things like...why
did I marry that woman 11 years ago, what was I thinking, why didn't I buy
Microsoft way back when...No seriously...I had the get-there-itis, thoughts,
of well if has failed, I could keep going, but then thought how many STUPID
pilots do that and die. I chose the most prudent course, land at the
nearest airport, that could provide the fire, and medical if needed. I was
fortunate that happened to be GSO. I was also fortunate that my past
instructors always harped on always be thinking what would you do if, and
always tossed me curves during my training. You never know how you will
actually react in the event of a real life systems failure until you have to
do it. i hope in the event of a more serious systems failure, that I will
retain my composure. By the way...I specifically stated to GSO approach
that this was NOT an emergency.
----- Original Message -----
From: "w.bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
To: "Commanderchat"
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 10:03 AM
Subject: Who?
> Was any body on this list near the Flagler County Airport, Daytona Fl., on
> Christmas day at about 4:15 PM?
>
> bilbo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS........
Had a really nice Christmas. We went from 1W1 to SZT last Sun
AM. It was great weather here and great at the destination but in between
lay 250 miles of solid overcast, tops at 9,000. We went over VFR at 11.5 in
clear, blue skies with neary a bump. About 70 miles from landing, the clouds
parted, just as advertised and we landed at Sandpoint, ID. It was buetiful
there. About a foot of snow.
We had planed to fly to southern Idaho on Christmas Day, but since we
had just flown there for "T" day, we spent an extra day with Sue's sister.
We flew home today at 10.5 in almost identacle weather. When we took off, it
was 17 deg and sunny. The door on triple two had frozen shut and I had to
wheel her around and let the sun warm it up. We loaded up, warmed up and man
what a great climb out!! We had flown 1.5 out of full tanks and it was just
Sue, two dogs and a pile of Christmas gifts. The thing was a rocket! In a
270 deg climbing turn from TO, we had climbed nearly 3000 feet. SZT is 2100
feet MSL. We were just outside the city limits of the town when we leveled
off at 10.5. What fun!!
We had L & V winds on the return trip, averaged about 205 MPH (217MPH
on the way out). Landed at 1W1 at 1.35 this afternoon.
Here is what old triple two did for us. We didn't need to arrive at
the airport 2 hours before the flight departed. We didn't need to have our
shoes X-rayed ether. We didn't need to carry all of our luggage from the
parking garage to the ticket counter, I just drove up to the airplane. We
planed both departure times around our schedule (Sue even stopped and did
some after Christmas shopping at "Wally world" on the way to the airport.
We were able to arrive within 25 miles of the small Idaho town of
Clark Fork, our final destination (in the summer, with no snow, I land right
behind Sue's mom's house on a 2200 foot privet strip. In the winter we need
to land at Sadnpoint). The closest airline service is Spokane, WA, about 1.5
hour drive each way.
While we are talking about driving, that could also have been done.
Average winter driving time is 9 hours, about 500 miles, with lots of two
lane. This time of year, it would have been a slick, foggy drive.
We were able to leave late enough on Sunday to allow Sue time to make
an extra batch of peanut clusters, and arrived early enough to see all the
nieces and nephews and cousins. We easily and safely flew "VFR on top,"
knowing that if the worst thing happened, the old gal would easily stay above
the 9000 top of the overcast on the reaming engine (try that in a Baron).
When we decided to change our travel plans, we didn't need to call
some uncaring ticked agent and beg for mercy or pay any additional fees, we
just put different coordinates in the GPS and took off!
So, what did it cost for all this convince?? Well, to drive would
have cost about $330 (1000 miles round trip @ .33 per mile) The airlines
would have been, who knows. Depends what phase of the moon was in when the
tickets were purchased, but even drop dead, don't even think about changing
them, I have paid for them last 4th of July tickets are about $140 each,
round trip, and like I said, you are still over a 100 mile from where you
need to be!! I put 3.2 hour on triple 2 round trip (675 miles). I figure it
cost me about $100 an hour to fly her (I do all my own maintenance). So it
cost no more than driving of flying the "crowd killer."
Don't you just love life with an Aero Commander!! Why doesn't
everybody have one of these?? Hope all you holiday dreams came
true...........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Jim,
Great to hear your trip went so well! I guess I can just smell those peanut
clusters of Sue's right here in Oz!
We should all take a long hard look at the economics of operating a
Commander and build more fun times into our lives again.
Perhaps a new thread for discussion is how more of us can get licensed to do
the routine maintenance that saves you and Sue a lot of money. Any ideas on
this one? Can the TFCG beocme a licensing authority?
Sorry to hear the Iguanas had to stay right at home for Christmas this time
round...
Cheers from Oz
Russell
> HI KIDS........
>
> Had a really nice Christmas. We went from 1W1 to SZT last Sun
> AM. It was great weather here and great at the destination but in between
> lay 250 miles of solid overcast, tops at 9,000. We went over VFR at 11.5 in
> clear, blue skies with neary a bump. About 70 miles from landing, the clouds
> parted, just as advertised and we landed at Sandpoint, ID. It was buetiful
> there. About a foot of snow.
> We had planed to fly to southern Idaho on Christmas Day, but since we
> had just flown there for "T" day, we spent an extra day with Sue's sister.
> We flew home today at 10.5 in almost identacle weather. When we took off, it
> was 17 deg and sunny. The door on triple two had frozen shut and I had to
> wheel her around and let the sun warm it up. We loaded up, warmed up and man
> what a great climb out!! We had flown 1.5 out of full tanks and it was just
> Sue, two dogs and a pile of Christmas gifts. The thing was a rocket! In a
> 270 deg climbing turn from TO, we had climbed nearly 3000 feet. SZT is 2100
> feet MSL. We were just outside the city limits of the town when we leveled
> off at 10.5. What fun!!
> We had L & V winds on the return trip, averaged about 205 MPH (217MPH
> on the way out). Landed at 1W1 at 1.35 this afternoon.
> Here is what old triple two did for us. We didn't need to arrive at
> the airport 2 hours before the flight departed. We didn't need to have our
> shoes X-rayed ether. We didn't need to carry all of our luggage from the
> parking garage to the ticket counter, I just drove up to the airplane. We
> planed both departure times around our schedule (Sue even stopped and did
> some after Christmas shopping at "Wally world" on the way to the airport.
> We were able to arrive within 25 miles of the small Idaho town of
> Clark Fork, our final destination (in the summer, with no snow, I land right
> behind Sue's mom's house on a 2200 foot privet strip. In the winter we need
> to land at Sadnpoint). The closest airline service is Spokane, WA, about 1.5
> hour drive each way.
> While we are talking about driving, that could also have been done.
> Average winter driving time is 9 hours, about 500 miles, with lots of two
> lane. This time of year, it would have been a slick, foggy drive.
> We were able to leave late enough on Sunday to allow Sue time to make
> an extra batch of peanut clusters, and arrived early enough to see all the
> nieces and nephews and cousins. We easily and safely flew "VFR on top,"
> knowing that if the worst thing happened, the old gal would easily stay above
> the 9000 top of the overcast on the reaming engine (try that in a Baron).
> When we decided to change our travel plans, we didn't need to call
> some uncaring ticked agent and beg for mercy or pay any additional fees, we
> just put different coordinates in the GPS and took off!
> So, what did it cost for all this convince?? Well, to drive would
> have cost about $330 (1000 miles round trip @ .33 per mile) The airlines
> would have been, who knows. Depends what phase of the moon was in when the
> tickets were purchased, but even drop dead, don't even think about changing
> them, I have paid for them last 4th of July tickets are about $140 each,
> round trip, and like I said, you are still over a 100 mile from where you
> need to be!! I put 3.2 hour on triple 2 round trip (675 miles). I figure it
> cost me about $100 an hour to fly her (I do all my own maintenance). So it
> cost no more than driving of flying the "crowd killer."
> Don't you just love life with an Aero Commander!! Why doesn't
> everybody have one of these?? Hope all you holiday dreams came
> true...........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Mark,
An outstanding outcome...congratulations on managing the crisis!
Remember, you always knew that when you finally made that decision to get
that heater, that life would not necessarily be easy.
Anyhow glad the big '172' behaved as expected and I hope you get to enjoy
the comfort of that new heater real soon.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
Footnote: Buying Microsoft would have probably kept you away from
Commanderland forever!
I was at home hiding during this humbug of a holiday. BTW. I have a
flight
> story to tell.
>
> I departed from KHRJ this afternoon on my trip to Michigan to have my heater
> installed. I was happily muddling along at a nice lumbersone ground speed
> of 156kts. (not bad at 60% power at 6500 ft.)
>
> I had been getting flight following from my point of departure, as I usually
> do on those severe clear (VFR) days. I contacted Greensboro (GSO) Approach
> and they had asked me for a point about 50 miles past there so I could get a
> clean hand off. I provided an airport, and then asked to just make it a VFR
> flight plan. Well, just as I gave them a mid point airport for the flight
> plan, I smelled a sweet odor, almost like automotive anti-freeze. Well,
> this is not a liquid cooled engine, even if it was i would not be smelling
> anything sinece the engines are not in front of me. I scanned my guages
> and did not notice anything really unusual. Then I heard the sound of a LOT
> of air, and my airspeed dropped about 20kts. Ok, I thought, guages look ok,
> lets look outside the airplane.
>
> Well, lookie here. My gear was half way down. I checked my landing gear
> lever, and it was up and locked. I looked at my hydraulic pressure, and it
> was holding at about 650psi. Ok, lets use the hand pump and see if it comes
> back up. Well no go. Pressure continued to fall to nothing. I looked to
> see if I was traling any smoke, or if any of that neat pinkish red colored
> 5606 hydraulic oil was streaming down the sides of the nacells. Well
> nothing unusual there either. I reported to GSO approach that I had lost
> all hydraulic pressure, and was putting my landing gear down. I slowed the
> airplane to 120kts. and the gear came down and both sets of gear indicators
> reported down and locked. I then told GSO that gear was down and locked, I
> had 125 gal of fuel, and to please put me in on a normal approach.
>
> They assigned my runway 5 clear to land and offered to let me circle till I
> burnt off more fuel. With 125 gallons that would have taken a while and who
> knows what else could have happened.
>
> Well I was on a perfect base to runway 32, and requested to land on runway
> 32. The confused tower asked why. Well, I told them that this plane can
> come in VERY slow, and I would have not problem at all rolling to a complete
> stop long before the end of the runway, but IF, I did have a problem, I
> would not be causing undue problems for the commercial traffic on runway 5.
> GSO is a pretty busy airport. So they cleared me to land Runway 32. I
> greased the landing, crossing the threshhold at 80mph on the nose (VMC) and
> rolled to a stop within 2000 ft. of touching down with 3000 ft of runway
> left. Mind you no hydrailic pressure means No flaps, No steering, No
> brakes. I used a bit of right engine to keep the plan from drifintg off the
> right into the grass.
>
> Here is where diagonstics comes in. Since I saw NO unsual smoke trails
> behind me, or off the nacells, and no power fluctuations in the engines. and
> having smelled that sweet smell, which happened to be 5606 fluid I conluded
> that a hydraulic line had busted onder the nose. This is exactly what had
> happened. The nose wheel steering line broke spewing out all my hydraulic
> fluid. All in all an uneventful unplanned landing. Still I did learn a
> great deal about myself and how I handle what could be an emergency.
>
> I did not panic, I FLEW THE PLANE, I treated everything as normal, except I
> did not have flaps, brakes, or steering. I always wondered what would
> happen in the event of a REAL event. Grant it, this was not a catastrophic
> engine failure, or anything as severe as that or even a fire, but it was
> still an unplanned systems failure.
>
> So many things ran through my mind all at the same time. Things like...why
> did I marry that woman 11 years ago, what was I thinking, why didn't I buy
> Microsoft way back when...No seriously...I had the get-there-itis, thoughts,
> of well if has failed, I could keep going, but then thought how many STUPID
> pilots do that and die. I chose the most prudent course, land at the
> nearest airport, that could provide the fire, and medical if needed. I was
> fortunate that happened to be GSO. I was also fortunate that my past
> instructors always harped on always be thinking what would you do if, and
> always tossed me curves during my training. You never know how you will
> actually react in the event of a real life systems failure until you have to
> do it. i hope in the event of a more serious systems failure, that I will
> retain my composure. By the way...I specifically stated to GSO approach
> that this was NOT an emergency.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "w.bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
> To: "Commanderchat"
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 10:03 AM
> Subject: Who?
>
>
>> Was any body on this list near the Flagler County Airport, Daytona Fl., on
>> Christmas day at about 4:15 PM?
>>
>> bilbo
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS...........
I am putting the finishing touches on the next FGN (to be mailed
in early JAN). If anyone has an item, parts or airplane for sale or wanted,
and you are a member of the TCFG, let me know and I will print if FOR FREE!!
Remember that only about 25% of our members are active on the chat list, so
this is a great way to reach lots of Commander owners.
This issue is devoted to flying (or why you should not be) in the ice.
It has a great article by WCG covering what equipment is required by the
regs to fly a commander in the ice. It also has some fun "war stories" and a
piece on the TKS "anti-icing" system offered by John Towner, how to do a
winter pre-flight and lots more.
If you are not a current member of the group, now is a good time to
join and receive this fact filled issue! Hope every buddy has a safe New
Year!! capt jimbob
PS Keep those sump letters coming in!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Any A&P's or IA's near Oklahoma City Wanna help? |
I am looking at on old 1956 560A that has been sitting since 1998 (Stop me if you've
heard this one :P) I know I know! But it has plusses.
Before I get too into it, I plan to use it, if I can afford it (perhaps I should
live in it) for Angel Flight and Civil Air Patrol transport and whatever other
types of good deed I can do with it. Church related stuff etc etc. Of course,
I plan to use it personally too, but since I'm going begging for help, it's
not totally self related, nor selfless, but in the middle.
I am willing to pay cash, lend a hand, trade flight time, etc to anyone who can
help me. I am also working on arranging a tax deduction through Angel Flight
if you help. That's not a certain thing but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Here are the specs:
4400TT
840 SMOH (both)
sitting covered by a solid covering for a couple years, last annual was 1998.
19,900 OBO
Props are in the shop, they said $13000 to finish and $8-10K for an annual. Even
tacking on another $5000 for this plane seems reasonable. Still, $33000 for
this plane doesn't strike me as too bad, and I'm hoping to assist with the labor
and hoping to find someone who can help because they love doing it, want to
make some cash on the side, and want to help for the purpose of general do-gooding.
OR you could help out a military guy whose holidays have been ruined this
year and last by duties, but that's another story.
I have my CFI/CFII and would also be willing to trade instruction for A&P/IA time,
and I also build computers. I have a nice laptop to trade for work too for
example. Even my Mac G4 might go into the pot.
Anyone out there willing to help? I plan on basing at PWA or Downtown to be near
the Commander Shops at least initially. Norman also has a shop that does Twin
Commander work so that's a possibility.
I used to work on the Abrams Turret (think electronics, hydraulics, machinery)
so I'm not clueless around tools, diagnostic equipment, etc. Unfortunately, I
also have an Electrical Engineering degree which may hinder the operation. I think
I will be more help than hindrance though.
-Robert Bullock
Captain, USAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McClurg <rlmcclurg(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Hello, thanks for letting me join your Aero Commander |
membership
I don't have an Aero Commander yet, but getting close to buying an older turboprop
681. If you know of any available or have prepurchase suggestions let me
know asap.
530 626 9000 home
530 409 9262 cell
Thanks,
Robert McClurg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
Bob,
Welcome to the TCFG.
I do not know how much you know about 681's? They are a great airplane with
the Centruy conversion. TPE-331-1-151K are the good engine. The -43's are
not so good. The magic number to look for are 1800, 3600, and 5400 hours.
The 1800 hour is a hot section, 3600 is a hot section and addtiional work, and
5400 is Major Overhaul.
There was 681 listed recently that was cheep but it was over time for hot sections
and the new owner would be faced with $100,000+ in engine work. I do not think
they will pass an annual with times exceeding on the hot section.
There are 3-681's listed in the usual places. There is also one in Venizuela.
There is a good contact in Venizuela that is a member of the TCFG, Richrdo
Ocetla. Bringing in an aircraft from overseas does involve a C of A which can
be expensive.
Good luck on your search,
Tylor Hall
913-485-3799
Garrett has flat rates for these overhauls that are fixed.
I don't have an Aero Commander yet, but getting close to buying an older
turboprop 681. If you know of any available or have prepurchase suggestions
let me know asap.
530 626 9000 home
530 409 9262 cell
Thanks,
Robert McClurg
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with
MSN Hotmail. Click Here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CmdDave(at)aol.com <CmdDave(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Camera Hatch for 690A |
Does anyone know any aircraft that are equipped with a large 20" dia camera
hatch? We are thinking of installing one and would appreciate input from
anyone who has one or has used one. Thanks, Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Dave,Lucille has a camera hatch.Going to Tenn. this week,will be glad to get
any info I can to help out. BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Camera Hatch for 690A |
I had a camera hatch in my 500B.
I still have the camera operators seat and mount which rotates 360 degrees and
is on tracks.
The unit has a plate on it which names "Proair" as the manufacture.
The unit also comes with a shipping/storage mount.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: CmdDave(at)aol.com
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 11:32
Subject: Camera Hatch for 690A
Does anyone know any aircraft that are equipped with a large 20" dia camera hatch?
We are thinking of installing one and would appreciate input from anyone
who has one or has used one. Thanks, Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS........
I just finally received my AOPA Mag and read with great interest the
article everyone has been talking about. I agree that he author was not very
gracious with his accolades about our airplanes. Still, it had good photos
and if you were thinking you might like to have a Commander, I think it would
have moved you closer to buying one. I find that when I share my airplane
with first time riders, they are not always super impressed. Commanders are
very special airplanes that do some very amazing things, but they are not for
everybody. The writer of the AOPA article is probably more at home flying a
lot less airplane. One with more mundane systems, like electric landing gear
(Boring). I for one am proud to fly the Commander because it really is a
"pilots airplane." Ted Smith designed these airplanes to be flown by the
best trained pilots and owned by Americas best companies and assumed that you
knew how to fly real airplanes or you would not consider buying one, if not,
you would opt for a ceesna or beech instead.
The value issue is one that concerns me. As an NAAA aircraft
appraiser, I can say that regardless of what we think our airplanes are
worth, they always appraise well below that. I have spoken with the people
at NAAA about this but they just yawned and shrugged there shoulders. Anyone
reading the AOPA story and assuming they could pick up a 500B similar to the
one written about for $112K, will have quit a shock coming!
Anyway, it was a pretty good article and good publicity for the
Commander line. It all helps people to know these great airplanes are still
around and still a world class machine. To that end, look for the JAN issue
of "IN FLIGHT USA" at your local FBO. It should be available in a couple of
weeks. I do a little free lance writing for them and have a cover photo and
pilot report on old triple 2 in that issue............jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOPA ARTICLE |
well, I guess nobody is going to pick on the great folks
at AOPA, so I will have to take on the task. Didja notice
any technical errors in the article? There are several...
First person to email me (only, not the list) all of the
inaccuracies gets a free chatlist membership!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
I know we've got a couple of pro, heavy-iron pilots here.
Hope y'all read avweb - there is a tongue-in-cheek article
by an airline pilot that is a HOWL!
http://www.avweb.com/articles/ceo/ceo0001.html
Definitly make me think of Crunk! :-)
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/29/01 5:05:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
>
> well, I guess nobody is going to pick on the great folks
> at AOPA, so I will have to take on the task. Didja notice
> any technical errors in the article? There are several...
> First person to email me (only, not the list) all of the
> inaccuracies gets a free chatlist membership!
THANKS CHRIS................
YES, I did notice that my 680 only has 295 HP and I was
surprised to find that "IKE" had flown a 520!! I think AOPA of all
origination should consult their own type club list, and submit the article
to them for technical errors. Good all Chris, I had actually meant to
mention that but just forgot...jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AOPA ARTICLE |
Would somebody send me the article?
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 15:59
Subject: Re: AOPA ARTICLE
> well, I guess nobody is going to pick on the great folks
> at AOPA, so I will have to take on the task. Didja notice
> any technical errors in the article? There are several...
> First person to email me (only, not the list) all of the
> inaccuracies gets a free chatlist membership!
>
> Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Chris,
I resemble that remark!
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
Someone had this post on the insurance survey:
A/C Make/Model: 1955 AC560, ser# 222
TT: 515
TT In type: 215
Ratings: single, Multi, insturment soon Commercial
Insured value: 50,000
Insured with: I forget..Sorry
Yearly premium: $2600.00
I sure wish I knew who wrote that rate! It looks a little like what I'm interested
in, except I'm 300TT, only 11.3 ME. I have 1100+ 707 Navigator hours which
I'm hoping someone will consider.
Lee Duncan at Aviation Insurance agency said in the old days without the benfit
of computers, when underwriters wrote policies, they would consider this fact.
Anyone know who might? I am waiting to hear back from her. And I mentioned Buckwheat
World Headquarters. Is that anything like King Features Syndicate?
-Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard E. Brown, Sr. <pawpaw1(at)starband.net> |
Sir!!
BUCKWHEAT WORLD HEADQUARTERS IS a fine southern institution deadecated to the
furtherence of lining our pockets with cash. We give flyiin lessons in various
areas. Some of these include LOW LEVEL border crossing, FAA avoidance, weight
and balance when loadin controversial materials, etc etc.
We will porvide instruction in one of our aircraft for HUGE sums of cash. (small,
unmarked bills) IF you prefer, we will use your aicraft for instruction. However,
we will need it 4 months ahead of your lesson to ' check it out'. We also
provide Insurance, to make sure you dont have an "accident".
References will not be supplied, as we don't want to contribute to the chain of
evedince.
Sincerely;
Beauregard Buckwheat,
Fearless Leader,
Buckwheat Flyin School
and money Laundry Mat
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 9:05 AM
Subject: Insurance
Someone had this post on the insurance survey:
A/C Make/Model: 1955 AC560, ser# 222
TT: 515
TT In type: 215
Ratings: single, Multi, insturment soon Commercial
Insured value: 50,000
Insured with: I forget..Sorry
Yearly premium: $2600.00
I sure wish I knew who wrote that rate! It looks a little like what I'm interested
in, except I'm 300TT, only 11.3 ME. I have 1100+ 707 Navigator hours which
I'm hoping someone will consider.
Lee Duncan at Aviation Insurance agency said in the old days without the benfit
of computers, when underwriters wrote policies, they would consider this fact.
Anyone know who might? I am waiting to hear back from her. And I mentioned
Buckwheat World Headquarters. Is that anything like King Features Syndicate?
-Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
Mark Woodley:
If serial # 222 is you...
Then please call Gary Tillman 800-228-4283.
or go to his web page www.flysafeinsurance.com and complete the app.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/30/01 8:27:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, MOEMILLS
writes:
> The article also fails to mention that there is a 680F(P). Not all
> pressurized commanders were long. Also, when did Rockwell really buy Aero
> Commander? Horne states 1972.
>
HI KIDS..........
FWIW, I have emailed the author and pointed out some of the
errors he made and recommended to him that in the future, any writer for AOPA
use the wonderful resource AOPA has put together in the most complete list of
type clubs on earth. All any writer needs to do is contact the club and let
someone check the story for accuracy I havent head back yet.....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOPA ARTICLE |
MOEMILLS writes:
>Also, when did Rockwell really buy Aero Commander? Horne states 1972.
Thanks to Jeff Cousins (TCAC), I have the following important
dates in Commander history:
Beginning with a meeting of engineers with Ted Smith in 1944 the
original
prototype was designed and flown in 1948 under Skyways, Inc.
October 1948. Aero Design is formed, buys the rights to the Commander
and
moves it to OKC.
July, 1950 Rockwell-Standard buys all Aero Design stock.
October, 1980 Gulfstream American purchases Rockwell Commander Division.
September, 1989 Precision Aerospace buys the Type Certificates, tooling,
and
spares for the multi-engine Commander line and forms Twin Commander
Aircraft
Corporation.
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/30/01 07:13:57 Pacific Standard Time,
rcbullock(at)home.com writes:
> Insured value: 50,000
> Insured with: I forget..Sorry
> Yearly premium: $2600.00
>
> I sure wish I knew who wrote that rate! It looks a little like what I'm
> interested in, except I'm 300TT, only 11.3 ME. I have 1100+ 707 Navigator
> hours which I'm hoping someone will consider.
>
And here I thought Buckwheat was dead.
Robert,
I may be a bit out of my depth on this topic, but the sad truth is that the
underwriters want big total time numbers, bit time in type, big in command
time and the crowing glory: an intrument rating.
I tried to argue on behalf of clients all the time when I was in the training
biz and didn't get anywhere. No matter what kind of logic I'd whup on them,
they had a great come back: "We have the cancelled checks to prove our
point."
Anyone who is sporting a $2600 insurance premium is probably not insuring the
hull and is maybe keeping the minimal liability coverage to satisfy the
airport manager.
Our resident insurance broker can enlighten us on that.
Since I'm in the Holiday spirit, I'll be extra sweet and simply tell you
you're "insurance challenged" at this point.
Your options? Self insure the hull. Carry liability only. Find some
aviation god (airline pilot) to partner in the airplane and write the policy
on him with an "open pilot" provision that could include you when you get a
bit more time. (Gary, is this still a viable strategy?)
And, the best option of the all: Get in there and build your time and get an
instrument rating. I realize that's not the quick solution -- and so does
the insurance industry. They're banking on Darwinism.
Happy New Year and cheap insurance to all ....
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
Actually, I have my Instrument, CFI, CFII, and AGI. And an MEL of course. The CFI/II
is single engine aicraft but the CFII ought to be a big trump on the Instrument
only. They told me the CFI/CFII didn't make a difference. HUH?! I would
think that would also help matters since it's a fairly tough rating to get,
and last I heard had about a 20% flunk rate on the initial. Plus it of course
implies additional proficiency.
I wonder if an MEI would help? That is part of my plan, to spend the money on time
in my own plane to get the necessary PIC ME time. I figure that's a couple
thousand dollar savings right there.
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Insurance
In a message dated 12/30/01 07:13:57 Pacific Standard Time, rcbullock(at)home.com
writes:
Insured value: 50,000
Insured with: I forget..Sorry
Yearly premium: $2600.00
I sure wish I knew who wrote that rate! It looks a little like what I'm interested
in, except I'm 300TT, only 11.3 ME. I have 1100+ 707 Navigator hours which
I'm hoping someone will consider.
And here I thought Buckwheat was dead.
Robert,
I may be a bit out of my depth on this topic, but the sad truth is that the underwriters
want big total time numbers, bit time in type, big in command time
and the crowing glory: an intrument rating.
I tried to argue on behalf of clients all the time when I was in the training
biz and didn't get anywhere. No matter what kind of logic I'd whup on them,
they had a great come back: "We have the cancelled checks to prove our point."
Anyone who is sporting a $2600 insurance premium is probably not insuring the
hull and is maybe keeping the minimal liability coverage to satisfy the airport
manager.
Our resident insurance broker can enlighten us on that.
Since I'm in the Holiday spirit, I'll be extra sweet and simply tell you you're
"insurance challenged" at this point.
Your options? Self insure the hull. Carry liability only. Find some aviation
god (airline pilot) to partner in the airplane and write the policy on him
with an "open pilot" provision that could include you when you get a bit more
time. (Gary, is this still a viable strategy?)
And, the best option of the all: Get in there and build your time and get an
instrument rating. I realize that's not the quick solution -- and so does the
insurance industry. They're banking on Darwinism.
Happy New Year and cheap insurance to all ....
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/30/01 11:24:58 Pacific Standard Time,
rcbullock(at)home.com writes:
> They told me the CFI/CFII didn't make a difference. HUH?! I would think that
> would also help matters since it's a fairly tough rating to get, and last I
> heard had about a 20% flunk rate on the initial. Plus it of course implies
> additional proficiency.
You're not trying to apply logic to this situation, are you?
Case study: I had a client in a Mr. RPM 680-FP. He was in his 70s, had been
flying since W.W.II but did not have an instrument rating.
He bought the 680FP to fly to his second home at Lake Tahoe (elev. 6200+ feet
MSL, flying over high terrain.)
Since he was not instrument rated, the underwriter wanted him to REMOVE the
pressurization system. Why? Their actuary tables proved that non-instrument
rated pilots in pressurized airplanes have a high accident rate.
I asked if they really wanted a pilot in his 70s to turn blue on the way to
his destination.
They did prefer that because they were adamant about removing the
pressurization system. We compromised by telling them it would be disabled.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McClurg <rlmcclurg(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Looking at 681 to buy, what is necessary for oper beyond |
TBO
Does anyone know of what time hot inspections need to be done on the 2000 TBO engine,
and rough cost for hot inspection, and for replacement cost?, and things
to lookout for before buying?
Robert McClurg
Hm 530 626 9000
Cell 530 409 9262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking at 681 to buy, what is necessary for oper |
beyond TBO
In a message dated 12/30/01 13:00:44 Pacific Standard Time,
rlmcclurg(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Does anyone know of what time hot inspections need to be done on the 2000
> TBO engine, and rough cost for hot inspection, and for replacement cost?,
> and things to lookout for before buying?
>
Robert,
The primary (maybe ONLY) support for the -43 engine is Hancock Enterprises in
Tennessee.
Mr. Robert R. Hancock
President
Hancock Enterprises, Inc.
3565 Central Pike
Hermitage TN 37076
800-331-4217
615-391-0606 fax 615-872-0527
Bob has a TBO extention for the -43 engines, contact him and get the current
o/h costs, etc.
As far as the 681 goes, nothing special on this airframe that's not covered
on the rest of the fleet.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
Hey Robert, My MEII has been expired since 93, but way back then if I had 5
hours time in type then I was covered by any owners policy. The minimum time
in type to give Multi Dual was 5 hours back then. I am sure it has all
changed by now though.
I think that a MEI would look VERY GOOD to any underwriter.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | 520, 560, 560A propellers |
HI KIDS....
As I was pursuing the latest T A P, I noticed a set of propellers for
these airplanes and they have had the "MV" mod done NO AD!!!! Ad is under
Hartzell props for sale, starts HCA3MV20-2/8433N BLADES. Says they are "new
in the box" Props are here in Washington State but the phone number is
Alaska. No price. 907-351-3848 Good Luck!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOPA ARTICLE |
Tom if you email to me your address I will send you my copy of AOPA
Andres P Geraghty
apg86(at)netscape.net
PS:
I always read the posting at this board but I don't own a coomader yet
Tom Fisher wrote:
>Would somebody send me the article?
>Tom...
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 15:59
>Subject: Re: AOPA ARTICLE
>
>
>> well, I guess nobody is going to pick on the great folks
>> at AOPA, so I will have to take on the task. Didja notice
>> any technical errors in the article? There are several...
>> First person to email me (only, not the list) all of the
>> inaccuracies gets a free chatlist membership!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>
--
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the
convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CmdDave(at)aol.com <CmdDave(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Camera Hatch for 690A |
Can you tell me more about the 680F in South Africa?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | help with missing Commander? |
Guys,
Following is some of the discussion I've had with a man who
is looking to retrieve his Commander. Dunno if anyone has any
idea of it's whereabouts, but maybe somebody can assist in
tracking it down.
Chris
http://www.aerocommander.com/Pturbine/1/c9.jpg
--------snip-----------
Unfortunately, I had my aircraft ripped off by the
Mexican Government. Our State Department refuses to
do anything about this. They refuse to list the
aircraft as stolen.
The serial number of the A/C is 1579-32 (N808GU).
It is a 1966 680 that is one of 66 models that were re
manufactured by the factory to have a shrike nose and
turbine motors (680T). One notable thing about this
aircraft is a lack of eye brow windows.
I am unable to go to Mexico, because I was tortured,
robbed and held prisoner for 7 months. There after I
lost my business, wife and house. The state
department took their time getting out of there.
The A/C is still registered to me. It is the mexican government that is
using the A/C. They even post to their web page that they operate it as
a
"Transport Offical." A number of years ago I was approched to sell the
registration. I didn't do that because I thought that there was a
posibility of recovering the A/C.
Kenneth Erickson
erickskl(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
I wish I could help. But that is one reason I will not fly or even travel
to a foriegn country. They (most all other countries) are so corrupt they
make ours look like all politicians are saints, including Billy Clinton.
The only suggestion I would have it to pay a mercenary to literally steal it
back.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: help with missing Commander?
> Guys,
> Following is some of the discussion I've had with a man who
> is looking to retrieve his Commander. Dunno if anyone has any
> idea of it's whereabouts, but maybe somebody can assist in
> tracking it down.
>
> Chris
>
> some years back of his airplane>
> http://www.aerocommander.com/Pturbine/1/c9.jpg
>
> --------snip-----------
>
> Unfortunately, I had my aircraft ripped off by the
> Mexican Government. Our State Department refuses to
> do anything about this. They refuse to list the
> aircraft as stolen.
>
> The serial number of the A/C is 1579-32 (N808GU).
> It is a 1966 680 that is one of 66 models that were re
> manufactured by the factory to have a shrike nose and
> turbine motors (680T). One notable thing about this
> aircraft is a lack of eye brow windows.
>
> I am unable to go to Mexico, because I was tortured,
> robbed and held prisoner for 7 months. There after I
> lost my business, wife and house. The state
> department took their time getting out of there.
>
> The A/C is still registered to me. It is the mexican government that is
> using the A/C. They even post to their web page that they operate it as
> a
> "Transport Offical." A number of years ago I was approched to sell the
> registration. I didn't do that because I thought that there was a
> posibility of recovering the A/C.
>
> Kenneth Erickson
> erickskl(at)yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Awsome flight I should do it more often. |
> Well, 12/26 unscheduled landing at GSO due to total hydraulic failure,
from
> the front hydraulic line popping a cork.
>
> 12/27 GSO to 3TR in Niles Michgan. 3 hours 50min. Fuel used 98.5 gal.
> -20F. Awfully cold. I was bundled like an eskimo for this flight. By the
> time i got to 3TR, my toes were starting to get a wee bit cold. I landed
at
> 4:30pm in a nice 17 knot gusting 22 knot crosswind. I really do love
> crosswind landings. I think they are fun, I also personally LOVE to shoot
> NDB approaches in nice stiff crosswinds. But then again, no pain no gain,
> i.e. no challenges your skills rot.
>
> Anyhow, they started my heater installation, on Friday 12/28. They did
not
> believe me when I said EVERYTHING from the old heater was "removed for
> repair/replacement". They had to manufacture a few items, like a blower.
> Having no core and no blower, the cost jumped from $2,000.00 to $2,625.00.
> Add 2 nights hotel $71.50. and we are up to a total of $2,768.00 for the
> complete heater installation. Advantages are NO AD's, and about 45,000btu
> at 160kts. I was needless to say VERY warm inthat cabin, especially
> considering that I had bundled up totally expecting things to not work for
> the duration of the flight home. Things worked MUCH better. I had to
open
> the outside air to keep me cool enough to be comfortable. If anyone
thinks
> an IFR certification is not worth it. I am sure glad I had one, and was
> current while I was in Michigan. If I had not been able to get out IFR, I
> would probably still be in the Holiday Inn Express till sometime mid June
> with all the snow they are having up there.
>
> They had the runway plowed for me. I got my clearance, climbed to 9000 ft.
> tops at 7200 ft, and I picked up that 55kt tailwind. Grounspeed averaged
> 209kts with a 220 kt, groundspeed peak at Roanoke. I did not feel like
> catching the additional 15kts, at 11,000ft since I wanted to make this
> flight last, I was having so much fun.
>
> Well, my Girlfriend was visiting her family near Chase City in Virginia,
so
> I went from 3TR to CXE and spent the night. This was the ONLY time I did
> not pick up fuel when I landed, but had 75 gal indicated on the guage (
> 3hours) for a 40 min flight. So I decided to go. When i landed at HRJ 40
> min later, I had the line guy top it off. Well here is the shocker. 3TR,
> to CXE, to HRJ + New heater running = 522 nm. 89 gallons of fuel used.
> Total flight time leaving 3TR, hobbs said 18.5, on landing at HRJ, 22.6.
> 4.1 hours of flying. 21 gal per hour total on this plane. Indicated
> airspeed 155 knots, at 9000 feet, neg 20F. Inside my totally stripped
> interior temerature was about 75 degrees.
>
> After the interior is done and the plane is insulated, my bet is I will be
> forced to run the heater on low only part of the time to keep from
becoming
> char broiled pilot.
>
> Oil burned 1 quart per side.
>
> I LOVE this airplane.
>
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | HAPPY NEW YEAR!! |
HI KIDS......
It has been a great year in Commanderland. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO
ALL!! Jim & Sue Metzger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McClurg <rlmcclurg(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Thank you for activating your Microsoft Office product |
Here is another site that has a small fee associated with it
Robert McClurg
Hm 530 626 9000
Cell 530 409 9262
>From: "MS Product Activation"
>To:
>Subject: Thank you for activating your Microsoft Office product
>Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:33:36 -0800
>
>Thank you for activating your Microsoft(r) Office product. The activation process
you just completed ensures that you have genuine Microsoft software.
>Special Offer!
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>
>* For Microsoft provided online product support and services that help you use
your Office product to the fullest, visit http://www.microsoft.com/office/support.htm
.
>
>* To subscribe to the Office News Service, a monthly newsletter that provides
information on Office-related news, special offers, and Office events, visit http://register.microsoft.com/regsys/custom/newslettersdk/officenews.asp
>
>Thank you using the latest Microsoft Office product. We hope you enjoy your Office
experience.
>
> The Microsoft Office Product Team
>
>
>
>* If you continue to use SharePoint Team Services after the 2-month trial period,
the current price for SharePoint Team Services will automatically be charged
to your credit card until you cancel your account on the bCentral Web site.
>**SharePoint Team Services requires a level 4.0 or higher Windows-based browser.
>
>(c) 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
>Microsoft, bCentral, and SharePoint are either registered trademarks or trademarks
of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and/or other countries.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
Hi gang!
I'm not sure the picture Chris took (of XC-AA20) is Kenneth's Commander. I've
got some shots of this myself, taken at Downtown Airpark in June/July 1995. Look
at the dorsal fillet. It's not one of a 680T or 680V Commander, and although not
too clear in the photo, has the angled exhaust pipes of a Dash 10 engine. Nor do
I have any record of serial 1579 having winglets added.
According to my data, XC-AA20 is a Model 695A, serial 96091, which was
previously in Colombia (surprise, surprise).
I do not have any sightings of this aircraft. Can Ken tell me when it was
stolen? I know he purchased it on April 13th 1987.
Lastly, can he let me know the website address he refers to ("They even post to
their web page that they operate it as a "Transport Official." )
Very Best Regards
and HAPPY NEW YEAR to All in Commanderland,
Barry Collman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 6:42 PM
Subject: help with missing Commander?
| Guys,
| Following is some of the discussion I've had with a man who
| is looking to retrieve his Commander. Dunno if anyone has any
| idea of it's whereabouts, but maybe somebody can assist in
| tracking it down.
|
| Chris
|
|
| http://www.aerocommander.com/Pturbine/1/c9.jpg
|
| --------snip-----------
|
| Unfortunately, I had my aircraft ripped off by the
| Mexican Government. Our State Department refuses to
| do anything about this. They refuse to list the
| aircraft as stolen.
|
| The serial number of the A/C is 1579-32 (N808GU).
| It is a 1966 680 that is one of 66 models that were re
| manufactured by the factory to have a shrike nose and
| turbine motors (680T). One notable thing about this
| aircraft is a lack of eye brow windows.
|
| I am unable to go to Mexico, because I was tortured,
| robbed and held prisoner for 7 months. There after I
| lost my business, wife and house. The state
| department took their time getting out of there.
|
| The A/C is still registered to me. It is the mexican government that is
| using the A/C. They even post to their web page that they operate it as
| a
| "Transport Offical." A number of years ago I was approched to sell the
| registration. I didn't do that because I thought that there was a
| posibility of recovering the A/C.
|
| Kenneth Erickson
| erickskl(at)yahoo.com
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
Corrupt as it may be, I am having trouble visualizing the Mexican Government
walking up to a totally innocent American and saying, " senoir we are taking
your plane to use as a government transport and locking you up for 7 years
even though you have done nothing wrong."
There must be more to the story than has been conveyed to Chris.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: help with missing Commander?
> Guys,
> Following is some of the discussion I've had with a man who
> is looking to retrieve his Commander. Dunno if anyone has any
> idea of it's whereabouts, but maybe somebody can assist in
> tracking it down.
>
> Chris
>
> some years back of his airplane>
> http://www.aerocommander.com/Pturbine/1/c9.jpg
>
> --------snip-----------
>
> Unfortunately, I had my aircraft ripped off by the
> Mexican Government. Our State Department refuses to
> do anything about this. They refuse to list the
> aircraft as stolen.
>
> The serial number of the A/C is 1579-32 (N808GU).
> It is a 1966 680 that is one of 66 models that were re
> manufactured by the factory to have a shrike nose and
> turbine motors (680T). One notable thing about this
> aircraft is a lack of eye brow windows.
>
> I am unable to go to Mexico, because I was tortured,
> robbed and held prisoner for 7 months. There after I
> lost my business, wife and house. The state
> department took their time getting out of there.
>
> The A/C is still registered to me. It is the mexican government that is
> using the A/C. They even post to their web page that they operate it as
> a
> "Transport Offical." A number of years ago I was approched to sell the
> registration. I didn't do that because I thought that there was a
> posibility of recovering the A/C.
>
> Kenneth Erickson
> erickskl(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Thank you for activating your Microsoft Office product |
???????????????????????????????????????????????????
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert McClurg
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:33 AM
Subject: Fwd: Thank you for activating your Microsoft Office product
Here is another site that has a small fee associated with it
Robert McClurg
Hm 530 626 9000
Cell 530 409 9262
>From: "MS Product Activation"
>To:
>Subject: Thank you for activating your Microsoft Office product
>Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:33:36 -0800
>
>Thank you for activating your Microsoft(r) Office product. The activation process
you just completed ensures that you have genuine Microsoft software.
>Special Offer!
>We are pleased to present you with 2 free months of SharePoint(tm) Team Services-based
hosting from Microsoft bCentral(tm), a leading provider of integrated
Web services for businesses. This $100 value is yours free. If you like the service,
you can continue to use it after the trial period ends*.
>SharePoint Team Services is a Web site solution that provides an easy-to-use place
on the Web where internal and external teams can communicate, share documents,
and work together on projects. It's easy to use because people can contribute
to it directly from their browser** without having to know HTML programming.
Creating team Web sites for all your projects enables you to work more effectively
with customers and partners.
>In addition, get a free domain name and $100 off additional Web services from
Microsoft bCentral, by subscribing to a year of business web services.
>Visit http://www.bcentral.com/office/ to take advantage of these special offers.
>In addition, here are some links that can help you stay updated and get more out
of your Office product:
>* For timesaving tips, product updates, and related products and add-ins, visit
the Microsoft Office Web site at http://microsoft.com/office/.
>
>* For Microsoft provided online product support and services that help you use
your Office product to the fullest, visit http://www.microsoft.com/office/support.htm
.
>
>* To subscribe to the Office News Service, a monthly newsletter that provides
information on Office-related news, special offers, and Office events, visit http://register.microsoft.com/regsys/custom/newslettersdk/officenews.asp
>
>Thank you using the latest Microsoft Office product. We hope you enjoy your Office
experience.
>
> The Microsoft Office Product Team
>
>
>
>* If you continue to use SharePoint Team Services after the 2-month trial period,
the current price for SharePoint Team Services will automatically be charged
to your credit card until you cancel your account on the bCentral Web site.
>**SharePoint Team Services requires a level 4.0 or higher Windows-based browser.
>
>(c) 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
>Microsoft, bCentral, and SharePoint are either registered trademarks or trademarks
of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and/or other countries.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
N414C wrote:
> There must be more to the story than has been conveyed to Chris.
Yea, I also think we havn't quite heard the "rest of the story"
either. I requested that he tell me more about the circumstances.
I've heard just enough horror stories about pilots in Mexico to
believe that something bad happened to the guy, but, like you I
suspect that there may be more than he's telling....
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Missing in Mexico, Microsoft and Props |
When I was flying my 500B in Southern California I made it a point not to go near
the Mexican border.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: Robert Bullock ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 12:48
Subject: RE: Missing in Mexico, Microsoft and Props
This is a hangar story I heard some years ago about a Twin Commander owner that
broke down in Mexico. He was having problems getting the right part to fix
the airplane. This caused him to be stuck there for some days. Each day he
was approached by a different official asking for another fee or had his hand
out. After coming to the end of his cash on hand, another official showed up
and he blew up at this official. Told him to "bugger off" or some such.
This was not a good thing to do. A small bag of "white power" was thrown into
the airplane and this official seized the airplane. The story goes that the
aircraft was never returned.
Our own government can be just as bad. Another story is told about a freight
hauling Queen Air was on an IFR flight plan from Brownsville to El Paso for a
fuel stop and them on to Phoenix. In El Paso, the DEA seized the aircraft for
suspected drug hauling. The flight never left the US airspace. No drugs were
found in the aircraft. The pilot was never charged with a crime or jailed.
It took over 4 years and many $10,000's of dollars of legal fees to get the
DEA to return the aircraft. The DEA also put many hours on the aircraft with
out compensation to the owner.
These are just hangar stories. But truth can be stranger than fiction. Many
Twin Commander have been seized for hauling drugs and are sold at auction for
very low prices. Like the 680FP and 685 that was in Trade-a-plane recently.
But we as citizens need to control those in charge do not attack legal operations.
The Mexico situation is better with a new President Fox. It may be a time to
try again and recover this aircraft if indeed it was detained in error.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | garyloff <n27kb(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
Before the current govt was installed this not a uncommon practice. In fact
a very similar thing was happening in this country especially in States like
Louisianna under the "Assett Forfitiure Seizure Act".
Whether or not there is more too this story I would check out my facts
before implying someone is not telling the truth.
Under no circumstance would I let any of my aircraft approach our southern
border.
President Fox has even acknowledged such events as being relatively common
and had vowed to change the situation. Let's hope he's successful
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net>
To: Chris Schuermann ;
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
> Corrupt as it may be, I am having trouble visualizing the Mexican
Government
> walking up to a totally innocent American and saying, " senoir we are
taking
> your plane to use as a government transport and locking you up for 7 years
> even though you have done nothing wrong."
>
> There must be more to the story than has been conveyed to Chris.
>
> Milt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:42 PM
> Subject: help with missing Commander?
>
>
> > Guys,
> > Following is some of the discussion I've had with a man who
> > is looking to retrieve his Commander. Dunno if anyone has any
> > idea of it's whereabouts, but maybe somebody can assist in
> > tracking it down.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > > some years back of his airplane>
> > http://www.aerocommander.com/Pturbine/1/c9.jpg
> >
> > --------snip-----------
> >
> > Unfortunately, I had my aircraft ripped off by the
> > Mexican Government. Our State Department refuses to
> > do anything about this. They refuse to list the
> > aircraft as stolen.
> >
> > The serial number of the A/C is 1579-32 (N808GU).
> > It is a 1966 680 that is one of 66 models that were re
> > manufactured by the factory to have a shrike nose and
> > turbine motors (680T). One notable thing about this
> > aircraft is a lack of eye brow windows.
> >
> > I am unable to go to Mexico, because I was tortured,
> > robbed and held prisoner for 7 months. There after I
> > lost my business, wife and house. The state
> > department took their time getting out of there.
> >
> > The A/C is still registered to me. It is the mexican government that is
> > using the A/C. They even post to their web page that they operate it as
> > a
> > "Transport Offical." A number of years ago I was approched to sell the
> > registration. I didn't do that because I thought that there was a
> > posibility of recovering the A/C.
> >
> > Kenneth Erickson
> > erickskl(at)yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
In a message dated 01/02/02 05:47:28 Pacific Standard Time, n27kb(at)erols.com
writes:
> Under no circumstance would I let any of my aircraft approach our southern
> border.
>
> President Fox has even acknowledged such events as being relatively common
> and had vowed to change the situation. Let's hope he's successful
>
I certainly understand Tom and Gary making this statement.
Just to level the playing field: I've been flying Mexico since 1977 and in
the past 10 years have found a quantum shift in their airport infrastructure
and style of doing business.
Now, when I fly to Mexico, I am issued a receipt for any and every fee I pay
surrounding the airplane's operation. I am never in a situation that I
think requires the "mordida."
Quite honestly, my pulse rate only goes up now when I deal with U.S. Customs.
They can dismantle your airplane on a whim.
I am in sympathy with the fellow who had his Commander seized and I'd like to
know the full story before we lead a brigade of mercenaries down there to
recover it.
Sir Barry -- good call on the details in the photo. Not nearly as sharp as
you on the dorsal fillet, but I did look at the exhaust stacks and think,
"This is not a 680 series Turbo Commander."
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Gentlemen,
I have been on the trail to purchase a 680FL but I have been looking at a 685 recently.
What comments does everybody have on the 680FL vs, 685?
I know the wings are shorter.
I know the engines are different but I would like peoples opinions (yes the suggestion
box is open) on the pluses and minuses of the two engines.
Are there any airframe considerations between one or the other?
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 08:19
Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
In a message dated 01/02/02 05:47:28 Pacific Standard Time, n27kb(at)erols.com writes:
Under no circumstance would I let any of my aircraft approach our southern
border.
President Fox has even acknowledged such events as being relatively common
and had vowed to change the situation. Let's hope he's successful
I certainly understand Tom and Gary making this statement.
Just to level the playing field: I've been flying Mexico since 1977 and in the
past 10 years have found a quantum shift in their airport infrastructure and
style of doing business.
Now, when I fly to Mexico, I am issued a receipt for any and every fee I pay
surrounding the airplane's operation. I am never in a situation that I think
requires the "mordida."
Quite honestly, my pulse rate only goes up now when I deal with U.S. Customs.
They can dismantle your airplane on a whim.
I am in sympathy with the fellow who had his Commander seized and I'd like to
know the full story before we lead a brigade of mercenaries down there to recover
it.
Sir Barry -- good call on the details in the photo. Not nearly as sharp as you
on the dorsal fillet, but I did look at the exhaust stacks and think, "This
is not a 680 series Turbo Commander."
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
Flew to Harlingen Texas area over XMAS landed at T65 Weslaco TX. Tied the plane
down and spent the night with friends. Went to leave the next day and the lineboy
said customs agents were out shortly after I landed looking the plane over
and asking a lot of questions.
Did I almost get disassembled?
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
In a message dated 01/02/02 05:47:28 Pacific Standard Time, n27kb(at)erols.com writes:
Under no circumstance would I let any of my aircraft approach our southern
border.
President Fox has even acknowledged such events as being relatively common
and had vowed to change the situation. Let's hope he's successful
I certainly understand Tom and Gary making this statement.
Just to level the playing field: I've been flying Mexico since 1977 and in the
past 10 years have found a quantum shift in their airport infrastructure and
style of doing business.
Now, when I fly to Mexico, I am issued a receipt for any and every fee I pay
surrounding the airplane's operation. I am never in a situation that I think
requires the "mordida."
Quite honestly, my pulse rate only goes up now when I deal with U.S. Customs.
They can dismantle your airplane on a whim.
I am in sympathy with the fellow who had his Commander seized and I'd like to
know the full story before we lead a brigade of mercenaries down there to recover
it.
Sir Barry -- good call on the details in the photo. Not nearly as sharp as you
on the dorsal fillet, but I did look at the exhaust stacks and think, "This
is not a 680 series Turbo Commander."
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
Your file just got bigger.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: CloudCraft(at)aol.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 16:35
Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
Flew to Harlingen Texas area over XMAS landed at T65 Weslaco TX. Tied the plane
down and spent the night with friends. Went to leave the next day and the lineboy
said customs agents were out shortly after I landed looking the plane over
and asking a lot of questions.
Did I almost get disassembled?
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
In a message dated 01/02/02 05:47:28 Pacific Standard Time, n27kb(at)erols.com
writes:
Under no circumstance would I let any of my aircraft approach our southern
border.
President Fox has even acknowledged such events as being relatively common
and had vowed to change the situation. Let's hope he's successful
I certainly understand Tom and Gary making this statement.
Just to level the playing field: I've been flying Mexico since 1977 and in
the past 10 years have found a quantum shift in their airport infrastructure and
style of doing business.
Now, when I fly to Mexico, I am issued a receipt for any and every fee I pay
surrounding the airplane's operation. I am never in a situation that I think
requires the "mordida."
Quite honestly, my pulse rate only goes up now when I deal with U.S. Customs.
They can dismantle your airplane on a whim.
I am in sympathy with the fellow who had his Commander seized and I'd like
to know the full story before we lead a brigade of mercenaries down there to recover
it.
Sir Barry -- good call on the details in the photo. Not nearly as sharp as
you on the dorsal fillet, but I did look at the exhaust stacks and think, "This
is not a 680 series Turbo Commander."
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
Hi Milt,
You have to remember, of course, that N414C was once operated by a guy
known as Wing Commander Gordon. Could there be a connection with US Customs
asking questions?
A new paint job will not disguise that fact, but perhaps a new 'N' number
might throw the US Customs boys off the scent, at least for a while!
Lastly, I see you landed at T65 (Weslaco), but where is the 'XMAS' you flew
over, en route? Cannot find that designator in any of my directories!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
N414C
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
cc:
03/01/2002 Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
00:35
Flew to Harlingen Texas area over XMAS landed at T65 Weslaco TX. Tied the
plane down and spent the night with friends. Went to leave the next day and
the lineboy said customs agents were out shortly after I landed looking the
plane over and asking a lot of questions.
Did I almost get disassembled?
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
In a message dated 01/02/02 05:47:28 Pacific Standard Time,
n27kb(at)erols.com writes:
Under no circumstance would I let any of my aircraft approach our southern
border.
President Fox has even acknowledged such events as being relatively common
and had vowed to change the situation. Let's hope he's successful
I certainly understand Tom and Gary making this statement.
Just to level the playing field: I've been flying Mexico since 1977 and in
the past 10 years have found a quantum shift in their airport
infrastructure and style of doing business.
Now, when I fly to Mexico, I am issued a receipt for any and every fee I
pay surrounding the airplane's operation. I am never in a situation that
I think requires the "mordida."
Quite honestly, my pulse rate only goes up now when I deal with U.S.
Customs. They can dismantle your airplane on a whim.
I am in sympathy with the fellow who had his Commander seized and I'd like
to know the full story before we lead a brigade of mercenaries down there
to recover it.
Sir Barry -- good call on the details in the photo. Not nearly as sharp
as you on the dorsal fillet, but I did look at the exhaust stacks and
think, "This is not a 680 series Turbo Commander."
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | On the trail of a different commander |
This one is 8000TT, 1000SMOH/10STOH Rt, 900SMOH left by Custom AeroMotive (sic).
1955 680, they are telling me $29,500 with NEW (hour hours) props with no AD!
It needs some belly work which they are looking at, and they said I could assist
on that and the shop at the other end of the hangar said I can help with
the annual, which they are estimating at $4000 ($2000 for labor). I spent about
4 hours down there, and they also did a gear swing test while I was there. I
was told the props alone are worth minimum $25,000 for the pair. List is about
$50,000. We also ran it up. It has a 1997 interior that need to be reassembled,
but the headliner and sides are there and in good shape. Suede top and tan
leather sides. Carpet needs replacing. No radios, XPDR is there, and trays are
there. HSI, Autopilot, O2, Deice Boots. New battery. All logs since 1955. about
a 1.5 ft stack of them
It's a lot of airplane for the money. If I don't buy it, anyone got a finders fee?
Good paint, good glass, etc. Needs some TLC but mechanically it seems fine.
More details than you want to hear but the belly damage is the biggest thing,
some ribs and skin. It had a gear collapse. Rt Horiz stab was redone too.
Man, now the insurance thing again...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
In a message dated 1/3/02 1:39:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> If they can take a Queen Air for no reason, they can take anything from
> anybody, for no reason.
YEP, THEY CAN.........AND DO!!...........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 01/03/02 01:39:48 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Is there nobody out there who can get Congress to look at these confiscation
> of property laws? Drug smuggler or not, shouldn't seizure of property be
> finalized in a court of law? If the law says that a convicted smuggler
> loses his property, I have no problem with that, but then surely it is up
> to a court of law to determine that such a smuggler is guilty before the
> property is lost, not an agent working the field and a career.
It used to be that way, until the Bill of Rights and most of the United
States Constitution were dismantled in the '80s.
KG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
They probably tagged your N number Doc. Now they will watch everywhere you
go for a while till they get bored.
If your airplane does not belong to a dead end Corp., or leave the country
alot they won't bother you.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Buckwheat World HQ and insurance |
Can I get a membership card and patch? What about an honorary title? Is there an
insurance discount?
Does anyone do the 'Named pilot with higher time' as primary pilot on their insurance,
and you as secondary unnamed or named but secondary?
Is this 'legal'?
Anyone coming through Oklahoma City with an MEI wanna let me catch a trip leg for
some Commander time? Actually, I have my AMEL, so I can act as safety pilot
or fly under the hood etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
I have a very good friend who once flew at the Customs Air Support Branch in
Homestead Florida(HST). The only property that they seized was done so
after a suspect airplane was intercept and followed to a landing area. The
airplanes that were seized were flown to a storage facility at Homestead
General(X51). There the planes sat and rotted for at least a year waiting
for the suspect to be tried. IF the suspect was found guilty and IF Customs
wanted the aircraft, then Customs would proceed through the courts to
permanently take ownership.
This process usually took more than two years to complete. That is two
years outside, in the hot Fl. sun, and salt air. It doesn't take much
imagination to figure out what condition they were in by then.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk>
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
>
> Hi Milt,
>
> You have to remember, of course, that N414C was once operated by a guy
> known as Wing Commander Gordon. Could there be a connection with US
Customs
> asking questions?
>
> A new paint job will not disguise that fact, but perhaps a new 'N' number
> might throw the US Customs boys off the scent, at least for a while!
>
> Lastly, I see you landed at T65 (Weslaco), but where is the 'XMAS' you
flew
> over, en route? Cannot find that designator in any of my directories!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Barry C.
>
>
> N414C
> e.net>
commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> cc:
> 03/01/2002 Subject: Re: help with
missing Commander?
> 00:35
>
>
> Flew to Harlingen Texas area over XMAS landed at T65 Weslaco TX. Tied the
> plane down and spent the night with friends. Went to leave the next day
and
> the lineboy said customs agents were out shortly after I landed looking
the
> plane over and asking a lot of questions.
> Did I almost get disassembled?
>
> Milt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
> To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
>
> In a message dated 01/02/02 05:47:28 Pacific Standard Time,
> n27kb(at)erols.com writes:
>
>
> Under no circumstance would I let any of my aircraft approach our
southern
> border.
>
> President Fox has even acknowledged such events as being relatively
common
> and had vowed to change the situation. Let's hope he's successful
>
>
> I certainly understand Tom and Gary making this statement.
>
> Just to level the playing field: I've been flying Mexico since 1977 and
in
> the past 10 years have found a quantum shift in their airport
> infrastructure and style of doing business.
>
> Now, when I fly to Mexico, I am issued a receipt for any and every fee I
> pay surrounding the airplane's operation. I am never in a situation
that
> I think requires the "mordida."
>
> Quite honestly, my pulse rate only goes up now when I deal with U.S.
> Customs. They can dismantle your airplane on a whim.
>
> I am in sympathy with the fellow who had his Commander seized and I'd
like
> to know the full story before we lead a brigade of mercenaries down there
> to recover it.
>
> Sir Barry -- good call on the details in the photo. Not nearly as sharp
> as you on the dorsal fillet, but I did look at the exhaust stacks and
> think, "This is not a 680 series Turbo Commander."
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Robert,Be sure and do a gear box check.The engines are bullet proof,but the
box is the biggy. BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: On the trail of a different commander |
Bob,
This sounds like a find. If you give Barry Coleman the N number and serial
number, he can pull up a history of owners and past records from the FAA
like the 337 forms for any modifications.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert C. Bullock [mailto:rcbullock(at)home.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 8:48 AM
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: On the trail of a different commander
This one is 8000TT, 1000SMOH/10STOH Rt, 900SMOH left by Custom AeroMotive
(sic). 1955 680, they are telling me $29,500 with NEW (hour hours) props
with no AD! It needs some belly work which they are looking at, and they
said I could assist on that and the shop at the other end of the hangar said
I can help with the annual, which they are estimating at $4000 ($2000 for
labor). I spent about 4 hours down there, and they also did a gear swing
test while I was there. I was told the props alone are worth minimum $25,000
for the pair. List is about $50,000. We also ran it up. It has a 1997
interior that need to be reassembled, but the headliner and sides are there
and in good shape. Suede top and tan leather sides. Carpet needs replacing.
No radios, XPDR is there, and trays are there. HSI, Autopilot, O2, Deice
Boots. New battery. All logs since 1955. about a 1.5 ft stack of them
It's a lot of airplane for the money. If I don't buy it, anyone got a
finders fee? Good paint, good glass, etc. Needs some TLC but mechanically it
seems fine. More details than you want to hear but the belly damage is the
biggest thing, some ribs and skin. It had a gear collapse. Rt Horiz stab was
redone too.
Man, now the insurance thing again...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 01/03/02 05:16:50 Pacific Standard Time,
Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk writes:
> Lastly, I see you landed at T65 (Weslaco), but where is the 'XMAS' you flew
> over, en route? Cannot find that designator in any of my directories!
Why, Sir Barry, that's the only airport on the North Pole, of course.
It may not be in your directories because it is unpaved, shorter than 6000
feet and has no public, published instrument approach, and although it should
be, is not an airport of entry for Customs purposes.
Speaking of that ... about me tainting Dr. Milt's Commander, I'd rather
believe it was the scent of No-Name that the dogs picked up. I hear it makes
dogs and grown men howl at the moon.
Wing Commander Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: On the trail of a different commander |
In a message dated 01/03/02 06:56:28 Pacific Standard Time,
rcbullock(at)home.com writes:
> It's a lot of airplane for the money. If I don't buy it, anyone got a
> finders fee? Good paint, good glass, etc. Needs some TLC but mechanically
> it seems fine.
>
> Man, now the insurance thing again...
Have you shopped insurance? What have you been told?
At the price they're selling this project for, would you be comfortable with
liability coverage only? i.e. "self insure" the hull?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Siezure of Property |
Well Nico unfortunately they can take any thing, anywhere here in the U.S.
It's called immenent domain, and they if they do for no apparrent reason,
then they are supposed to pay you fair market value. That rarely happens
either.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Kill Bin Laden Game |
This is cute go to the web site listed below and game auto loads and plays.
Bend Over bin Laden
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
Ah! 'XMAS' = North Pole. I really should have thought of that.
And, of course, you're right. It would be the scent of No-Name that dogs picked
up.
Thanks for putting me right Keith!
Have a Great New Year,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 5:42 PM
Subject: XMAS
In a message dated 01/03/02 05:16:50 Pacific Standard Time, Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk
writes:
Lastly, I see you landed at T65 (Weslaco), but where is the 'XMAS' you flew
over, en route? Cannot find that designator in any of my directories!
Why, Sir Barry, that's the only airport on the North Pole, of course.
It may not be in your directories because it is unpaved, shorter than 6000 feet
and has no public, published instrument approach, and although it should be,
is not an airport of entry for Customs purposes.
Speaking of that ... about me tainting Dr. Milt's Commander, I'd rather believe
it was the scent of No-Name that the dogs picked up. I hear it makes dogs
and grown men howl at the moon.
Wing Commander Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Diff. Commander |
There is a document on Chris's website that basically describes the
allowable backlash at I think 40" from center.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Diff. Commander
> What would be considered a thorough gearbox check? How would one know it's
> been tortured without stripping it down?
> Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:46 AM
> Subject: Diff. Commander
>
>
> > Robert,Be sure and do a gear box check.The engines are bullet proof,but
> the
> > box is the biggy. BIG AL
> >
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jjleon(at)att.net <Jjleon(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Holiday sightings |
Stopped by LNA (Lantana airport in West Palm Beach,
Florida) during the holidays. i spoke with some of the
mechanics at Palm Beach Aviation who are in the process
of redoing two commanders in the hangar and have one
waiting outside. Unfortunately, Al Hoffman was on
vacation for the holidays, so I did not have the chance
to meet him personally. However, I did get a chance to
see his 500, N628AH, with a great paint job but waiting
for a new tail cone and some replacement avionics. For
Sir Barry and the database inclined, a 1958 straight 500
S/N 682.
In the Palm Beach hangar I saw N10ME, a 1960 vintage,
S/N 500A-900-9. That one is owned by a Florida company,
has a new left engine which looked like "re-man" and new
paint. The interior is in the refurb process.
I missed the tail number of the straight 500 which they
scrapped after discovering substantial spar corrosion.
But this was one of the airplanes which were used for
charter work between FL and the Bahamas i.e. high time
in close proximity to salt water and humidity. The
remains are stored behind the PBA hangar.
I also saw N303H a 1963 560-F S/N 1312. This one was
sitting on the ramp in bare aluminum with all control
surfaces removed. So I am not sure if it is being
cannibalized or is in the middle of a complete
restoration.
All in all, a good afternoon of Commander hangar flying
in sunny FL.
Juan Leon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | more on the missing Commander |
well, I got a bit more info from the guy, but not a lot...
--snip---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Yes Robert,There is a Santy Clause,and yes,someone-NAMELY ME-has three
higher time pilots than MYSELF(bragging aside,I am only single rated,only
150hrs, total 65 multi-unlike you with all your fancy titals that don't mean
S__T to the ins.co.)and hopefully will have PAUL.CRUNK,and MILT all checked
out in LUCILLE soon!I bought LUCILLE before I even took my first check
ride-not because my wife could afford it,but because I wanted the BEST DAMN
PLANE in the world at my finger tips when I would be able to fly it! BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: On the trail of a different commander |
I was told today that no one would write me one for a brand new multi ticket. I
was told $3800 a year for the 560A I was looking at. Again, I do have my CFI/CFII/AGI
but only 300TT.
The 680 is 'too big'.
I also asked about being self insured. Any ideas out there?
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: On the trail of a different commander
In a message dated 01/03/02 06:56:28 Pacific Standard Time, rcbullock(at)home.com
writes:
It's a lot of airplane for the money. If I don't buy it, anyone got a finders
fee? Good paint, good glass, etc. Needs some TLC but mechanically it seems
fine.
Man, now the insurance thing again...
Have you shopped insurance? What have you been told?
At the price they're selling this project for, would you be comfortable with
liability coverage only? i.e. "self insure" the hull?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Diff. Commander |
>From: "Robert Bullock" <rcbullock(at)home.com>
>To: "Allen Reed"
>Subject: Re: Diff. Commander
>Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:54:00 -0600
>
>So how does one do that other than a swing check? I was there when they
>cranked it up and down, so at least they work. :)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 9:46 AM
>Subject: Diff. Commander
>
>
> > Robert,Be sure and do a gear box check.The engines are bullet proof,but
>the
> > box is the biggy. BIG AL
> >
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
> >The gear box for the prop drive that is on the front of the engine
>BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Diff. Commander |
There is a document on Chris's website that basically describes the
allowable backlash at I think 40" from center.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Diff. Commander
> What would be considered a thorough gearbox check? How would one know it's
> been tortured without stripping it down?
> Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:46 AM
> Subject: Diff. Commander
>
>
> > Robert,Be sure and do a gear box check.The engines are bullet proof,but
> the
> > box is the biggy. BIG AL
> >
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Scent of No Name |
Hey wing commander...... I have been assured by several Gov. Agencies that No
Name, and all other aromethatic (sp?) agents are excluded from suspicion
during the dogs training. If not they would hit on 5606, and everything
else. I know you were just kidding, just FYI.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
You will have to get Crunk Sr. to verify this, but if you take a prop blade
and put it at the 3 or 9 o'clock position, and mark a spot half way from the
hub to the tip, then there should be no more than 1/2 inch of play in either
direction (measured from the tarmac) untill the crank stops rotation of the
gear box.
Man, if that's not a run on sentence I never wrote one!!.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: more on the missing commander |
Well we still don't know "WHY" they took his commander, and "WHY" they
tortured him for 7 months. Or "WHY" they destroyed his business. Or "WHY"
they took his house, or "WHY" his momma got run over by a train, or "WHY" his
dog ran off, or "WHY", "WHERE", "WHEN", "WHOM", OR "HOW" THEY took it??
2 things you get when you retire from any job: A framed print of the big
picture, and you find out who "THEY" are. (Gold Watches are reserved for
guys like Sir Barry and the Wing Commander, you know ....you EARNED IT!!)
Has this guy earned anything other than his much sought after self pitty?
This is in no way a condemnation. Nor should it be construed as slander or
seen as a liable statement. But if you truly want help the first rule of
thumb is to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Ya'll
might do shit different out there in Caliphonia, but I doubt it.
Actuall milage may vary, all cost plus tax, tag, license, and registration
fee. Only 1 dealer invoice is available at this price. All other vehicles
will cost more. Some options shown are not available on all models.
There have I covered my ass enough that no one will try to sue me for being
open, honest, and smart???
JetPaul (pre med, pre law, used car salesman, it's all the same really.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: On the trail of a different commander |
On Thursday, January 3, 2002, at 03:56 PM, Robert Bullock wrote:
> I was told today that no one would write me one for a brand new multi
> ticket. I was told $3800 a year for the 560A I was looking at. Again, I
> do have my CFI/CFII/AGI but only 300TT.
>
> The 680 is 'too big'.
Speaking of 680's. My partner (Paul Odum) and I have a 680E for sale.
Good times, dry engines, AD free new props, IFR/GPS cert., etc. For
more information contact me....Yoda also knows the airplane very well,
as does WCG.
Cheers,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | garyloff <n27kb(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help with missing Commander? |
The laws have changed and if they want your airplane they got it. The only
real defense you have is the integrety of the individual agent. Fortunetly
99% of these guys are professional above board guys doing thankless duty.
The other 1% can turn your life into a living hell.
While it may take 2 years for them to take possession of your craft they
will have unofficial possession until then.
Where it get's really dicey is with the State and local cops especially in
the deep south most notably Louisianna. I'd fly 1,000 miles to avoid landing
in LA. Some counties they are dirty from head to toe. I'm no talking 1955
but 2002.
Here's one instance where I could care less if anyone is offended as they
say "If the truth hurts".
----- Original Message -----
From: Bow <w.bow(at)att.net>
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
> I have a very good friend who once flew at the Customs Air Support Branch
in
> Homestead Florida(HST). The only property that they seized was done so
> after a suspect airplane was intercept and followed to a landing area.
The
> airplanes that were seized were flown to a storage facility at Homestead
> General(X51). There the planes sat and rotted for at least a year waiting
> for the suspect to be tried. IF the suspect was found guilty and IF
Customs
> wanted the aircraft, then Customs would proceed through the courts to
> permanently take ownership.
>
> This process usually took more than two years to complete. That is two
> years outside, in the hot Fl. sun, and salt air. It doesn't take much
> imagination to figure out what condition they were in by then.
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 4:11 AM
> Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
>
>
> >
> > Hi Milt,
> >
> > You have to remember, of course, that N414C was once operated by a guy
> > known as Wing Commander Gordon. Could there be a connection with US
> Customs
> > asking questions?
> >
> > A new paint job will not disguise that fact, but perhaps a new 'N'
number
> > might throw the US Customs boys off the scent, at least for a while!
> >
> > Lastly, I see you landed at T65 (Weslaco), but where is the 'XMAS' you
> flew
> > over, en route? Cannot find that designator in any of my directories!
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Barry C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > N414C
> > > e.net>
> commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> > cc:
> > 03/01/2002 Subject: Re: help with
> missing Commander?
> > 00:35
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Flew to Harlingen Texas area over XMAS landed at T65 Weslaco TX. Tied
the
> > plane down and spent the night with friends. Went to leave the next day
> and
> > the lineboy said customs agents were out shortly after I landed looking
> the
> > plane over and asking a lot of questions.
> > Did I almost get disassembled?
> >
> > Milt
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
> > To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: help with missing Commander?
> >
> > In a message dated 01/02/02 05:47:28 Pacific Standard Time,
> > n27kb(at)erols.com writes:
> >
> >
> > Under no circumstance would I let any of my aircraft approach our
> southern
> > border.
> >
> > President Fox has even acknowledged such events as being relatively
> common
> > and had vowed to change the situation. Let's hope he's successful
> >
> >
> > I certainly understand Tom and Gary making this statement.
> >
> > Just to level the playing field: I've been flying Mexico since 1977 and
> in
> > the past 10 years have found a quantum shift in their airport
> > infrastructure and style of doing business.
> >
> > Now, when I fly to Mexico, I am issued a receipt for any and every fee
I
> > pay surrounding the airplane's operation. I am never in a situation
> that
> > I think requires the "mordida."
> >
> > Quite honestly, my pulse rate only goes up now when I deal with U.S.
> > Customs. They can dismantle your airplane on a whim.
> >
> > I am in sympathy with the fellow who had his Commander seized and I'd
> like
> > to know the full story before we lead a brigade of mercenaries down
there
> > to recover it.
> >
> > Sir Barry -- good call on the details in the photo. Not nearly as
sharp
> > as you on the dorsal fillet, but I did look at the exhaust stacks and
> > think, "This is not a 680 series Turbo Commander."
> >
> > Wing Commander Gordon
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: more on the missing Commander |
Hi Chris!
That's possibly another unsolved mystery sorted! I knew ETE-1327 applied to
a Commander, but had no idea what serial number was involved. A guy I know
who specialises in the Mexican military equipment didn't know the aircraft
serial. Doesn't really help Ken though, I'm afraid.
A lot of Commanders seized in Mexico go either to the Air Force, or to the
PGR (Procuraduria General de la Republica), and these normally receive
civil marks in the XC-AA?? range, where ?? are numerals. Some are then
passed on to Governors of various States.
I'll email Chris Thornburg to see if he can help me any further.
Thanks Chris,
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
Chris Schuermann
cc:
Sent by: Subject: more on the missing
Commander
chris(at)skymaster.c2-
tech.com
03/01/2002 21:54
well, I got a bit more info from the guy, but not a lot...
--snip---
----- Message from Kenneth Erickson on Thu, 3 Jan 2002
To: chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: RE:
Dear Chris,
I found a website that talks about all of the Mexican Air Force air craft.
The web master is Chris Thornburg. Chris Thornburg
[cthornburg(at)saipan.netpci.com].
He seems to think that my 680T is sporting ETE-1327.
The way that your can tell my air craft is:
1. It is a 1966 model that was remanufactured at the factory. There is a
hole on top by the wing root for air to enter the supercharger (non bleed
air). That is how they provided the pressurization. Most if not all of
the superchargers have long since failed. Their bearings went.
2. My air craft was fitted with century bleed air engines. They came from a
bird that was owned by Stuart Title.
3. It didn't have eyebrow windows. Though, it wouldn't be hard to put them
in. That's what caught my eye in your picture!
Chris, my air craft was taken from Celya. It is in Mexico about 150 miles
from Mexico City.
It has been 10 years that the A/C has been missing. I have always hoped
that the internet or some other opportunity would make it possible to
recover my A/C. I have thought about going to Mexico to get it, but I
wouldn't want anyone to suffer torture as I did.
Ken,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com [mailto:chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 4:59 PM
> To: Kenneth Erickson
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> > Kenneth Erickson wrote:
> >
> > Dear Chris,
> >
> > Wow! You sure have the contacts.
>
> Ken,
> I'm pretty sure XC-AA20 isn't your airplane. She's a Model 695A,
> serial 96091. I've got a number of people keeping an eye out for
> your Commander though. Sure would be helpful if you could provide
> some more info, ie: when and where you were when the airplane was
> taken, and maybe a bit more of the story just so I have a better
> idea about where/who to look for.
> I have a number of Commander contacts throughout south america, so
> if it's activly flying, we CAN find it. I even have some folks
> who might be willing to simply crank her up and return her if found,
> but like the OKC guys, they're going to want to see some proof of
> ownership and some details before they get accused of "stealing" an
> airplane (which I'm sure you understand).
>
>
> cheers,
> chris
>
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: THERE MUST BE MORE? MISSING COMMANDER... |
DID THE MISSING COMMANDER HAVE INSURANCE?
DID THE COMMANDER HAVE HULL INSURANCE?
DID YOU HAVE A MEXICAN ENDORSEMENT? (included with the policy)
DID YOUR POLICY HAVE WAR HULL AND WAR LIABILITY INCLUDED?
WHICH ALSO, INCLUDES CONFISCATION OR UPSET OF WAR?
WAS THE ELUSIVE COMMANDER FINANCED WITH A BANK, FINANCE COMPANY ETC...?
IF YOU ANSWERED YES TO ANY OF THE ABOVE THERE WILL BE OTHER INTERESTED
PARTIES TO THE CRIME...NAMELY THE BANK AND THE INSURANCE CARRIER.
PLEASE RESPOND AS TO THE NAME OF THE INSURANCE COMPANY. \
I'LL GET THE DETAILS...AND FORWARD TO THE APPROPRIATE PARTY.
ALSO, IF NEED BE...THERE IS A friend of mine NAMED ERIC HANEY, US ARMY ret.
Former Delta Force, Negotiator who for a fee will get the plane back...
FLYSAFE,
GARY TILLMAN
AVIATION INS; BROKERS OF NORTH AMERICA 800-228-4283
PS. NEVER, HAVE I HAD A PROBLEM WITH US CUSTOMS.
MEXICO, WILL GIVE YOU A HASSLE IF YOUR PAPER WORK IS NOT IN
ORDER...SPECIFICALLY, THE MEXICAN INSURANCE POLICY THAT COST $150.
KEEP THE ORIGINAL POLICY IN THE PLANE...(and have crisp $50's & $100's)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Pre-Purchase Checks I can do myself? |
Ok, short of paying for an annual myself, what can I do as a precheck on a Twin
Commander besides the pre-check? I got the article on the gearbox check.
The 680 had only about 10 hours of flight time in the past couple years. I was
told that the cylinders had filled with oil due to the ferry flight and the ferry
pilot had to remove spark plugs to drain it.
So the cylinders were ok, but what about the other end of the engine? Not much
you can do about it but he said all the hydraulics worked (except for the gear
which he left down until he could do a swing check), no fuel leaks, and he added
a qt of oil to one side in the 4hr flight.
the rt side, which is basically 10 STOH with heavy cylinders, 1000SMOH, had some
oil running from the augmenter tube back along the bit of nacelle that is there.
It looked like it was blowby, which I guess would make since with a fresh
top, since the rings probably weren't seated. the left side had no such oil on
it.
So, what else should I look for in my pre-purchase look?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS............
After much careful thought, I have made arrangements to have the
2002 fly-in at EAGLE AVIATION, in West Columbia, SC (CAE)
(www.eagle-aviation.com) They are the newest Twin Commander Service Center.
David Lipski has agreed to open there facility to us and to help with the
logistics of putting the event on 2500 mile from where I live.
The date is Sept 27-29. I plan to arrive several days early o
complete preparations.
Make plans now to attend!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Purchase Checks I can do myself? |
> Robert Bullock wrote:
> Ok, short of paying for an annual myself, what can I do as a precheck
> on a Twin Commander
Actually, paying for the annual might not be a bad decision. You
could tell the shop to halt if they find major problems - could be
a money-saver in the long run. The guy who bought my airplane paid
to have a well-known shop do a complete annual and I agreed to cover
any repairs beyond $2000.
As far as the engines, I suggest putting in fresh oil, then flying
them for 10+ hours. After that, note the hot/cold oil pressures, do
a compression check and do an oil analysis. If all three of these
items are "good" then odds are the engines are at least fairly
healthy and will provide further service. An oil analysis can often
tell a lot about an unknown engine...
Airframe is just inspect, inspect, inspect.... Look for corrosion as
a primary concern. If there has been any repair work, check the
quality of the workmanship and how the repairs are holding up. You
WILL be doing work on the hydraulic system for a while until all the
old leaks are cleared up, but that's not a big deal on Commanders.
good luck!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Part 91 Type Companies |
One of the things I want to do with a Commander (or any other airplane I buy) is
use it in a business. What sorts of businesses operating under part 91 are there
out there? Or does everyone just use it for travel? Charter/pt135/etc is
out of the question.
My ideas:
-Contracting with a small company or two for flights for whatever reason (thereby
limiting the scope, avoiding the 135 rule. This I'll have to research but I've
read about it being done.)
-Aerial Photography (belly cam! Wonder how much that STC is? Ouch I bet)
-Patrol (Pipeline, property, etc.)
-Angel Flight (each trip is a tax deduction.)
-Civil Air Patrol (they pay you a maintenenance amount per hour and fuel and oil)
-Deducting expenses involved in remaining current as a CFII/MEI
Any other ides?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | [THERE MUST BE MORE? MISSING COMMANDER...] |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Box Check |
Thanks Nico, just to be sure, I NEVER ran on a sentence!!!!!!
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earthlink <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Purchase Checks I can do myself? |
Nothing...if you want to REALLY know what you are buying pay for the annual.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:25 AM
Subject: Fw: Pre-Purchase Checks I can do myself?
Ok, short of paying for an annual myself, what can I do as a precheck on a Twin
Commander besides the pre-check? I got the article on the gearbox check.
The 680 had only about 10 hours of flight time in the past couple years. I was
told that the cylinders had filled with oil due to the ferry flight and the
ferry pilot had to remove spark plugs to drain it.
So the cylinders were ok, but what about the other end of the engine? Not much
you can do about it but he said all the hydraulics worked (except for the gear
which he left down until he could do a swing check), no fuel leaks, and he
added a qt of oil to one side in the 4hr flight.
the rt side, which is basically 10 STOH with heavy cylinders, 1000SMOH, had some
oil running from the augmenter tube back along the bit of nacelle that is
there. It looked like it was blowby, which I guess would make since with a fresh
top, since the rings probably weren't seated. the left side had no such oil
on it.
So, what else should I look for in my pre-purchase look?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lowell Girod <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
Commanderland;
I got this from a friend, it's not just 'heavy iron' it's for anyone that
flies and has seen the beauty of nature as only a pilot normally does.
I hope you enjoy it as I did.
Don
> PILOTS
>
> You see them at airport terminals around the world. You see them in the
>
> morning early, sometimes at night. They come neatly uniformed and
> hatted,
> sleeves striped; they show up looking fresh. There's a brisk, young-old
>
> look of efficiency about them.
>
> They arrive fresh from home, from hotels, carrying suitcases, battered
> briefcases, bulging, with a wealth of technical information, data,
> filled
> with regulations, rules.
>
> They know the new, harsh sheen of Chicago's O'Hare. They know the
> cluttered
> approaches to Newark; they know the tricky shuttle that is Rio; they
> know,
> but do not relish, threading the needle into Hong Kong.
>
> They respect foggy San Francisco. They know the up-and-down walk to the
>
> gates at Dallas, the Texas sparseness of Abilene, the Berlin Corridor,
> New
> Orleans' sparking terminal, the milling crowds at Washington. They know
> Butte, Boston, and Beirut. They appreciate Miami's perfect weather,
> they
> recognize the danger of an ice-slick runway at JFK.
>
> They understand about short runways, antiquated fire equipment,
> inadequate
> approach lighting, but there is one thing they will never comprehend:
> complacency.
>
> They remember the workhorse efficiency of the DC-3's, the reliability of
>
> theDC- 4's and DC-6's, the trouble with theDC-7's. They discuss the
> beauty
> of an old gal named Connie. They recognize the high shrill whine of a
> Viscount, the rumbling thrust of a DC-8 or 707. And a Convair.
>
> They speak a language unknown to Webster. They discuss ALPA, EPR's,
> fans,
> mach and bogie swivels. And, strangely, such things as bugs, thumpers,
> crickets, and CATs, but they are inclined to change the subject when the
>
> uninitiated approaches.
>
> They have tasted the characteristic loneliness of the sky, and
> occasionally
> the adrenaline of danger. They respect the unseen thing called
> turbulence;
> they know what it means to fight for self-control, to discipline one's
> senses.
>
> They buy life insurance-but make no concession to the possibility of
> complete disaster, for they have uncommon faith in themselves and what
> they
> are doing.
>
> They concede that the glamour is gone from flying. They deny that a man
> is
> through at sixty. They know that tomorrow, or the following night,
> something will come along that they have never met before; they know
> that
> flying requires perseverance. They know that they must practice, lest
> they
> retrograde. They realize why some wit once quipped: "Flying is year
> after
> year of monotony punctuated by seconds of stark terror."
>
> As a group, they defy mortality tables, yet approach semi-annual
> physical
> examinations with trepidation. They are individualistic, yet bonded
> together. They are family men, yet rated poor marriage bets. They are
> reputedly overpaid, yet entrusted with equipment worth millions. And
> entrusted with lives, countless lives.
>
> At times they are reverent: They have watched the Pacific sky turn
> purple
> at
> dusk. They know the twinkling, jeweled beauty of Los Angeles at night;
> they
> have seen snow up on the Rockies. They remember the vast unending mat
> of
> green Amazon jungle, the twisting silver road that is the father of
> Waters,
> an ice cream cone called Fujiyama. And the hump of Africa. They have
> watched a satellite streak across a starry sky, seen the clear, deep
> blue
> of
> the stratosphere, felt the incalculable force of the heavens.
>
> They have marveled at sun-streaked evenings, dappled earth, velvet
> night;
> spun silver clouds, sculptured cumulus: God's weather. They have viewed
>
> the
> Northern Lights, a wilderness of sky; a pilot's halo, a bomber's moon,
> horizontal rain, contrails and St Elmo's Fire.
>
> They have learned to accept these challenges everyday, they have
> realized a
> complete removal from earthy attachments, and they have reveled in a
> sense
> of high suspension .
>
> Only a pilot experiences all these. It is their world.
>
--- Lowell Girod
--- dongirod(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com> |
Hey Jim!
Sounds Great! I'm 38 minutes away from CAE. If you need any errands run, or some
face to face communication, just let me know.
Mark
843-357-3199
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Part 91 companies |
Be very carefull about how you do that.
You can make the airplane available on an exclusive basis to a company, and
charge pilot services that include the cost of: 1) Crew, 2) Maintenance, 3)
Insurance.
Much past that and you're part 135.
Oh shit, I forgot to mention one VERY imortant thing. The company involved
has to lease the airplane long term. that make them the owner (Sort of) and
then it's all part 91 after that.
It's been a LONG TIME since I did anything like this, but one of my first
companies that I worked for did it with a corporation that owned about 150
fast food joints.
We had a Citation 500 that was on a 135, but when it flew for the
"Corporation" (read I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you) It
was a part 91 operation.
There are huge grey areas out there......How big are your balls???
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Part 91 Type Companies |
Bob,
Try shared ownership, or club type of structure. Set the 680 up as a
corporation or LLC. Sell shares in the corporation to small companies for
corporate transportation just like Net Jets. Retain 50% and sell the
balance of the shares. You become the General Partner and do the flying for
non-pilot owners. It would only take two or three companies to keep you
busy.
Look for companies in the $10MM to $50MM in sales. Larger than that, they
could afford to own the airplane. It would be operated as a part 91 since
the trips are for the owners. You want to target companies that travel from
150 to 500 miles from your home base.
Start with a base amount to buy in, monthly fee to cover monthly exp.
(insurance, tie down, annual cost.) and an hourly fee to pay the pilot and
operational costs (gas, oil, maintenance, engine overhaul cost). You could
sell right seat time to students to build multi engine time.
It is very hard to rent a decent cross-country airplane today. With the
airlines the way they are, it takes less time to drive 300 miles than fly
the airlines if you have to show up 3 hours in advance of the flight.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert C. Bullock [mailto:rcbullock(at)home.com]
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:50 PM
To: Commander Chat
Subject: Part 91 Type Companies
One of the things I want to do with a Commander (or any other airplane I
buy) is use it in a business. What sorts of businesses operating under part
91 are there out there? Or does everyone just use it for travel?
Charter/pt135/etc is out of the question.
My ideas:
-Contracting with a small company or two for flights for whatever reason
(thereby limiting the scope, avoiding the 135 rule. This I'll have to
research but I've read about it being done.)
-Aerial Photography (belly cam! Wonder how much that STC is? Ouch I bet)
-Patrol (Pipeline, property, etc.)
-Angel Flight (each trip is a tax deduction.)
-Civil Air Patrol (they pay you a maintenenance amount per hour and fuel and
oil)
-Deducting expenses involved in remaining current as a CFII/MEI
Any other ides?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Part 91 Type Companies |
BINGO!!!! I knew some else would make it sound better than I did. Thanks
Tylor.
But see the key is still for the other company to Lease or "own shares" in
your airplane. Then they pay you pilot services to fly them around in their
(your) airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
Gang,
This reply was sidetracked by my mistake.
If you want to help the Blue Book price of Twin Commanders be accurate,
report the sales to them.
Most brokers due this as a part of their service. But Blue Book does not
know about private sales unless someone sends the information in.
Paul Wyatt is one of the good guys of this world. Send him the information.
He will be happy to talk to your banker too.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Wyatt, Paul [mailto:PWYATT(at)primediabusiness.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 1:29 PM
To: 'Tylor Hall'
Subject: RE: Aircraft Values
Thank you for your e-mail. Please forward any sales information to me
through my e-mail address. Please include as much information about the
aircraft, airframe and engine times, modifications, avionics, damage history
etc.
As you are probably aware, very few 1958 680E's (the example you mentioned)
change hands, and the more information we receive from you and the members
of your association, the better.
I would be also be happy to explain to any banker that our book is simply a
guide that reflects AVERAGE values for any aircraft. Our values reflect
prices of the freight dogs averaged in with the low time hanger queens, and
for an aircraft to be worth twice its book value is not at all unusual.
Paul Wyatt
Editor, Aircraft Bluebook
-----Original Message-----
From: Tylor Hall [mailto:thall5(at)kc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:23 AM
To: Wyatt, Paul
Subject: Aircraft Values
Paul,
I am on the e-mail list of the Twin Commander Flight Group, the owners
association of Twin Commanders. www.aerocommander.com
<http://www.aerocommander.com/>
http://www.aerocommander.com/Documents/things.html
This is an article of how much it costs to fix up a Twin Commander.
A question has come up about value of our aircraft. One of our members said
that a potential customer for buying his aircraft was turned down by the
bank because the Blue Book Value of the aircraft was too low and the
asking price too high.
Our members spend a lot of time and money upgrading their aircraft. When
you get through doing all the ADs, new engines, new interior, avionics,
props, and paint, the owner can have a major investment.
Case in point. Big Al wants to sell his 1958 680E Twin Commander for
$125,000. He has more than that invested in it. The blue book only shows a
value of $62,500. How can he show the bank that this is value to his
aircraft??
He has sold the aircraft for $125,000. How does he report it as an
individual to get the averages in your book raised??
Your input would be very helpful.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Part 91 Type Companies |
So a lease is under part 91. That makes them the 'operator' I guess of own or operate?
On Saturday, January 05, 2002 7:57 AM, JETPAUL(at)aol.com [SMTP:JETPAUL(at)aol.com] wrote:
> BINGO!!!! I knew some else would make it sound better than I did. Thanks
> Tylor.
>
> But see the key is still for the other company to Lease or "own shares" in
> your airplane. Then they pay you pilot services to fly them around in their
> (your) airplane.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Part 91 Type Companies |
In a message dated 01/04/02 16:09:29 Pacific Standard Time,
rcbullock(at)home.com writes:
> -Contracting with a small company or two for flights for whatever reason
> (thereby limiting the scope, avoiding the 135 rule. This I'll have to
> research but I've read about it being done.)
>
Danger! Danger!
If you "hold forth to the public air transportation" you are an air carrier
operation. A FSDO inspector could easily bust you for that -- and structured
well or not, the time and expense you will spend defending yourself will not
be pleasant.
You will incur the wrath of the FAA if you fly the airplane as well as
provide it. That is FAR 135. Period.
You can attempt a fractional set up, or interchange agreement in accordance
with FAR 91.501, but your partner companies have to supply their own pilots
(under 91.501) and you have to have the letters of agreement filed at the
FSDO office.
With subpart K coming on line, you're better off forming a partnership -- but
that does not decrease your operating cost, except sharing the cost of
annuals, upgrades and repairs.
The rest of your suggestions are OK from an FAR standpoint -- but realize
that, for example, you're going to bid a pipeline patrol contract against a
Super Cub or something that cost 12 cents an hour to operate.
I would not suggest the FAR 135 route if you're trying to save money. The
cost of compliance and putting an old beast like the 680 into conformity will
cost you a ton of money and time.
"You can't save money in aviation. It costs what it costs."
Don't want to sound like the Grim Reaper, but I don't want any of our members
swinging from the FAA gallows.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Part 91 Type Companies |
WCG,
OK, I have to ask the dumb question. The company that owns an aircraft, do
they have to have a letter of agreement with each pilot filled at the FSDO
that is hired to fly that airplane in part 91? Full time or part time?
Every CFI that gives a BFI in that airplane?
I am just looking to be educated.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com [mailto:CloudCraft(at)aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 11:36 AM
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: Part 91 Type Companies
In a message dated 01/04/02 16:09:29 Pacific Standard Time,
rcbullock(at)home.com writes:
-Contracting with a small company or two for flights for whatever reason
(thereby limiting the scope, avoiding the 135 rule. This I'll have to
research but I've read about it being done.)
Danger! Danger!
If you "hold forth to the public air transportation" you are an air carrier
operation. A FSDO inspector could easily bust you for that -- and
structured well or not, the time and expense you will spend defending
yourself will not be pleasant.
You will incur the wrath of the FAA if you fly the airplane as well as
provide it. That is FAR 135. Period.
You can attempt a fractional set up, or interchange agreement in accordance
with FAR 91.501, but your partner companies have to supply their own pilots
(under 91.501) and you have to have the letters of agreement filed at the
FSDO office.
With subpart K coming on line, you're better off forming a partnership --
but that does not decrease your operating cost, except sharing the cost of
annuals, upgrades and repairs.
The rest of your suggestions are OK from an FAR standpoint -- but realize
that, for example, you're going to bid a pipeline patrol contract against a
Super Cub or something that cost 12 cents an hour to operate.
I would not suggest the FAR 135 route if you're trying to save money. The
cost of compliance and putting an old beast like the 680 into conformity
will cost you a ton of money and time.
"You can't save money in aviation. It costs what it costs."
Don't want to sound like the Grim Reaper, but I don't want any of our
members swinging from the FAA gallows.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Values |
Group,
These great aircraft's prices wouldn't be in the toilet today if not
for the infinite wisdom of the insurance companies. I've heard all about how
low time pilots shouldn't think about flying something as complicated as a
Commander....BULL! This is not rocket science and if you are inclined to be
on a "Death Wish" you'll do it in a C-150.
They have virtually made it impossible to get a loan at the bank and
written far higher standards than this country's own FAA.
We all know insurance companies show very little profit in the
casualty side of premium vs pay-out, but in California a few years back we
had an insurance commissioner that also wanted to see the books they show
their investors, after all they own just about all the major buildings and
land in this country...those investments are supposed to profit to keep
underwriting a little more friendly.
Of course when re-election came along the industry pushed Quackenbush
upon us, with our own premium money...but I think he is doing "TIME" now,
there eventually is some justice.
One Day I am going to be a Commander Owner and my first solo flight
will be to test the pilots relief tube just to make sure of no obstructions,
this of course will be over one of their home offices...or is it only flour
sacks I can legally drop from above?
Your Commander Challenged Member,
CRAIG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/5/02 10:18:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, tylorh(at)sound.net
writes:
> This reply was sidetracked by my mistake.
>
> If you want to help the Blue Book price of Twin Commanders be accurate,
> report the sales to them.
>
>
If you will send that information to me, I will forward it to the blue book
as well as NAAA......... Good idea Tylor......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net> |
Bob,
I've tried to follow the "string" of your conversation about the 680 . I've remained
silent up to now but I think there something that needs to be said. Please
don't take offense to my comments. I mean them only as "food for thought".
Your obviously an adult and free to do what ever you wish but I think you need
to be very "comfortable" with a couple of things. "Cheep" airplanes are rarely
a "bargain". The old saying of "you get what you pay for" is basically true
in most occasions. Especially when it comes to aircraft. You need to be comfortable
with the real possibility that when your finished "restoring" this 680 you
might have the most expensive 680 on the face of the planet. I'm not saying
that this will happen but if it does just understand that you'll never get your
money back out of the airplane. You'll have to just fly it and love it. Make
sure that your bank account is healthy enough to "feed" this project your getting
into. The cost can go through the roof before your very eyes and potentially
cause major cash flow problems. Your worst scenario would be to get involved
in the project, have the cost go way beyond your ability to fund and now be
stuck. There's no graceful way out of that one. So just understand what your
getting into and be prepared with a "plan" for all the possible contingences.
Next, I think you need to come to terms with this purchase as something that you
personally really want to do. There's a reason the insurance company doesn't
want to write you a policy in this make and model. There is a reason that there
are Part 91 regulations and Part 135/121 regulations. In an effort to justify
your airplane please don't allow yourself to get into a situation that might
cost you a lot more than just your bank account. Money is always replaceable----people
aren't!
Best of luck to you and Fly Safe!.
John Williams
305-745-8414
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert C. Bullock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 2:50 PM
Subject: Part 91 Type Companies
One of the things I want to do with a Commander (or any other airplane I buy)
is use it in a business. What sorts of businesses operating under part 91 are
there out there? Or does everyone just use it for travel? Charter/pt135/etc is
out of the question.
My ideas:
-Contracting with a small company or two for flights for whatever reason (thereby
limiting the scope, avoiding the 135 rule. This I'll have to research but
I've read about it being done.)
-Aerial Photography (belly cam! Wonder how much that STC is? Ouch I bet)
-Patrol (Pipeline, property, etc.)
-Angel Flight (each trip is a tax deduction.)
-Civil Air Patrol (they pay you a maintenenance amount per hour and fuel and
oil)
-Deducting expenses involved in remaining current as a CFII/MEI
Any other ides?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Values |
Jim,
Paul Wyatt of Aircraft Bluebook.
PWYATT(at)primediabusiness.com
Send him the price that any Twin commander sells for and the airframe times,
equipment, engine time, ect.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com [mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 12:24 PM
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Fwd: FW: Aircraft Values
In a message dated 1/5/02 10:18:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tylorh(at)sound.net writes:
This reply was sidetracked by my mistake.
If you want to help the Blue Book price of Twin Commanders be accurate,
report the sales to them.
If you will send that information to me, I will forward it to the blue book
as well as NAAA......... Good idea Tylor......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
Hi Bob,
The biggest problem with project aircraft is HOW FAR DO WE GO. THe fact that
the engines turn,props are ok and the airframe seem to be in good condition
and wheels go up and down is what people want to see. They then believe that
there cant be much more to do. WRONG this is were we begin. Airplanes cost
money because of the little things that we least expect.
You are looking at a 40 year old bird. Consider the following.
Take out the fuel & oil tanks ,either replace or O/H.
Remove every hose and replace them
Remove entire hydraulic system and O/H all the components.
Remove every pump and valve and O/H them
Remove the gear and O/H
Replace all the above and you have a starting point from which engines props
etc become an issue.
If you not in a hurry (a year or two) have a load of cash and can justify the
expense, go for it.
I am fortunate that I have the time, skills,right contacts to be able to do
alot of the above myself. The results I posted a while back.
I rekon I will have an almost 0 time airframe engines with 900 smoh on the
cores with top O/H ,Queenie props for about 100K (A$)
If I had to pay a shop to do it NO WAY.
If you have any questions just ask.
Regards,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Part 91 Type Companies |
In a message dated 01/05/02 13:57:14 Pacific Standard Time, tylorh(at)sound.net
writes:
> OK, I have to ask the dumb question. The company that owns an aircraft, do
> they have to have a letter of agreement with each pilot filled at the FSDO
> that is hired to fly that airplane in part 91? Full time or part time?
> Every CFI that gives a BFI in that airplane?
Tylor & all,
With the advent, success and wanna-be's of the fractionals, a whole new set
of FAR 91 laws are coming down the tube.
To fully comprehend what's coming, one needs to study:
Sections 91.1009 through 91.1013 Clarification of Operational Control Issues
No, I have not read all of it ... I fall asleep every time I try.
Under FAR 91.501 the pilots do not have to be named in interchange or lease
agreement filed with the FSDO, but it must be clear that the pilot(s) are
being paid by the partner(s) and not the aircraft owner.
i.e.: We lease one of our Falcons to a dot.gone company. They also could
have access to one of the Falcons we operate if theirs is down for mx.
Either way, I present an invoice IN ADVANCE for pilot services under my own
biz name and carry a copy on the aircraft. Of course, I submit a real
invoice at the end of the trip to cover any additional fees / expesense, etc.
but you get the idea of the degree of empenage protection we go through.
Our lease agreement with them is filed with the FSDO.
I can tell you that with the number of people trying to circumvent FAR 135
through "time shares," "fractionals," and "rentals," the FAA has a new
subpart that covers these operations and they will soon be on ramp safaris.
I'm not saying not to do it. I am saying that there are new laws, study
them, comply and you'll skate.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Clarification on shared ownership |
I need to clarify my post on Fractional use of aircraft.
This is in the NPRM (notice of proposed rule making) phase and is not fully
law yet.
Also, going back and reading the NPRM, I came across this:
91.1001 Applicability. (a) This subpart prescribes rules, in addition to
those prescribed in other subparts of this part, governing the operation of a
fractional ownership program aircraft in a fractional ownership program
(b) As used in this part-
(1) A fractional ownership program or program means any system of aircraft
exchange involving two or more airworthy aircraft that consists of all of the
following elements:
So, in the instance of a guy owning one Aero Commander and getting partners,
it reads to me that you're free of the proposed Subpart K requirements.
Sorry if I panicked any partnerships on this list.
However, do be very careful if renting your Commander out with you in the
pilot's seat without the lease agreement in force and clear documentation
that you're employed by the renter.
I agree with what John Williams said. If you're struggling to afford or
justify the 680 now, chances are, it will still be a project airplane -- just
like it is now -- but with a bunch of your money in it.
We want you to be a Commander owner: A happy one!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/5/02 3:09:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net writes:
> most expensive 680 on the face of the planet.
HI KIDS........
Read Chris's great article on the web site "Don"t buy a
Commander." It truthfully points out that it is entirely possible to inherit
a Commander and not be able to realistically restore it. I love these
airplanes and, like "crazy" Harry Merritt, would buy and restore every one of
them if I hit the lottery.
That said, I just did a "Grand Reneged" restoration of my 680E and I
am financially buried in it. That is OK because I love the airplane and will
likely keep her for many years, still I am buried in her and I am an A & P
and "donated" about 1500 hrs of my time that I will never recover.
If you are even thinking about buying ANY Commander, GET A PRE-BUY
INSPECTION DONE!!!!!!!! It will be the best Commander $$ you will spend,
period. One overlooked AD can cost many thousand of $$.
They are wonderful, great airplanes and I think every pilot should
someday aspire to owning one, but first learn to fly a twin and then get a
prebuy inspection.
Fly safe.....capt jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john williams <keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Clarification on shared ownership |
WCG,
I think your comments are right on the money. After 11 years of background in the
FBO business and transportation law, I can tell with the utmost conviction
that the FAA has no sense of humor when it comes to anything that can perceived
as an "illegal 135 operation". I can't count the number of times I've heard
clients say "but it's a gray area". The FAA isn't paid to see gray. There's black
and white--period. My suggestion to the "average" pilot thinking of getting
involved in such activity: Forget It! Getting involved with the FAA at this
level is like getting stuck on fly paper--the harder you struggle to get away,
the worse it gets!
John Williams
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:51 PM
Subject: Clarification on shared ownership
I need to clarify my post on Fractional use of aircraft.
This is in the NPRM (notice of proposed rule making) phase and is not fully law
yet.
Also, going back and reading the NPRM, I came across this:
91.1001 Applicability. (a) This subpart prescribes rules, in addition to those
prescribed in other subparts of this part, governing the operation of a fractional
ownership program aircraft in a fractional ownership program
(b) As used in this part-
(1) A fractional ownership program or program means any system of aircraft exchange
involving two or more airworthy aircraft that consists of all of the following
elements:
So, in the instance of a guy owning one Aero Commander and getting partners,
it reads to me that you're free of the proposed Subpart K requirements.
Sorry if I panicked any partnerships on this list.
However, do be very careful if renting your Commander out with you in the pilot's
seat without the lease agreement in force and clear documentation that you're
employed by the renter.
I agree with what John Williams said. If you're struggling to afford or justify
the 680 now, chances are, it will still be a project airplane -- just like
it is now -- but with a bunch of your money in it.
We want you to be a Commander owner: A happy one!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | business vs personal use |
It seems that we have a wealth of knowledge about various use
regulations here (thanks especially to Keith!) so I'd like to
ask a few questions...
I am purchasing a Commander for my business. It is owned and
registered under the Company. Although it IS being purchased
primarily for business use, obviously I'd like to be able to use
it occasionally for personal use also. I've read all the AOPA
stuff on the topic and have discussed with my accountant. The
answer I've received is that I have to use some rather complex
fed tax charts and show my 'use' as income. I'm NOT trying to
figure out how to hide anything or lower costs, etc - just trying
to make sure I'm obeying all the rules. Can anyone provide any
facts or further guidance for me?
Thanks,
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Woodley <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: business vs personal use |
Yeah, one idea. Buy one Commander for Business and buy mine for your
personal use. No complications at all. One is business, one is personal
pleasure craft.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 9:58 AM
Subject: business vs personal use
> It seems that we have a wealth of knowledge about various use
> regulations here (thanks especially to Keith!) so I'd like to
> ask a few questions...
> I am purchasing a Commander for my business. It is owned and
> registered under the Company. Although it IS being purchased
> primarily for business use, obviously I'd like to be able to use
> it occasionally for personal use also. I've read all the AOPA
> stuff on the topic and have discussed with my accountant. The
> answer I've received is that I have to use some rather complex
> fed tax charts and show my 'use' as income. I'm NOT trying to
> figure out how to hide anything or lower costs, etc - just trying
> to make sure I'm obeying all the rules. Can anyone provide any
> facts or further guidance for me?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Schuermann
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Rules to live by:
1. If it has to be tax deductible for you to afford it, YOU CAN'T.
2. Don't mess with the FAA relative to part 135
3. Don't mess with the IRS at all!!! They make the Mexican Govt look like romper
room.
4. If you think you have insurance problems now wait until the insurer finds out
you are trying to make money on the project.
In a message dated 1/5/02 3:09:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net
writes:
most expensive 680 on the face of the planet.
HI KIDS........
Read Chris's great article on the web site "Don"t buy a Commander."
It truthfully points out that
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
Good Morning Nico,
You may find it very interesting to know that Eric Haney has written a book
about
his association with Delta Force...Go on line and check it out...
Also, he is from Lindale, Ga. a town in the Mountains of North Georgia. Next
to Rome.
And, yes he met with me regarding the need for a person such as himself to
retrieve
aircraft that were and are missing...
And as for the crisp $50's and $100's...I've had, on more than one occasion,
insured pilots enter Mexico, without the proper documentation...The last two
lads were
18 year old men joy riding in the family PA-32-300 aka Cherokee Six.
They flew into Mexico without the proper documents...They fit the
profile...Young males from USA flying a plane that will haul a Baby Grand
Piano.
With the cash, they were allowed to complete the required documents and
return to
Texas.
As for you comments about Americans, all I can say is you are welcome at my
home, anytime...We call it Southern Hospitality...
We'll leave the light on for you and please don't forget the crisp $50's and
$100's...
The price of NO NAME increased after 01 JAN 02.
FlySafe,
Gary Tillman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question |
Shouldn't both the sun and the moon be
describing a path more or less around the earth's equator? Now, plain
English, please, folks.
Easy, the moon had a 5th of No Name and was DUI!
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jjleon(at)att.net <Jjleon(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Musings on aircraft values |
The recent discussions focusing on the gentleman wanting
to restore a 680 and the recent AOPA Commander article
tempt me to add my ramblings to the string of comments.
In terms of the 680 project, I have to agree with the
folks who have pointed out that if a buyer needs to
figure out a scheme to help pay for the airplane, he is
probably buying more airplane than he can realistically
afford. And in the specific case of Commanders, all of
us know that even after a thorough pre-purchase, the new
buyer will still face a mountain of nuisance squawks
that will take some time (read $$$) to correct.
If done properly, you end up with the best airplane in
the world. I take my hat of to Alan Hart who has
invested $227 k on his 500B. The only downside to a
huge investment like that: you may never get your money
back. I have followed the thread of messages about how
the author of the AOPA article said current market value
is just over $100 k. Of course, we all believe that the
Blue Book $$ is way undervalued in this case. But
remember that fair market value, at least according to
the folks in the world of finance, is the price that a
willing buyer is willing to pay a seller assuming both
parties have all available information.
If you have a $200 k investment in a 500 series
Commander and you want to sell, you will have to wait
for and find an individual who values the time, expense
and TLC you've put into the bird. If your finances
change and you need to get out of the airplane quickly
you will definitely not get top dollar. Which means
prior to making that big investment in refurbing an
inexpensive Commander, you better be very certain that
this will be your dream airplane and that you will keep
it for a long, long time. Unless, of course, you're
like Big Al who has been known to throw in a case of
vintage no-name to close a deal...
Regards,
Juan Leon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question |
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com said:
>Picture 110-1044: For those who like to dabble with geography: Explain in
>plain English how the following is possible: This picture was taken at noon
>over Greenland while we were flying almost directly West. The sun sits on
>the left (South) wing as is apparent from the shadows in the picture, as it
>ought to do. This picture was taken in a northerly direction and below the
>wingtip, slightly off to the right almost on the horizon, the moon is
>visible. Question: If one can see the sun in the South, how is it possible
>that the moon is in the north? Shouldn't both the sun and the moon be
>describing a path more or less around the earth's equator? Now, plain
>English, please, folks.
>Thanks Nico
A few comments and questions on this subject.
(This should generate some interesting threads)
Did you confirm that you were actually flying directly on a West heading?
(Sun would be west and moon would be east then ?)
Great Circle courses are commonly used by most commercial jets from Dep
to Dest which would not necessarily reveal an EAST/WEST course line for
the Geography of your trip, unless very strong winds dictate otherwise.
(Not sure what your original route was)
ie Flight from SFO to Frankfurt might normally be viewed as "SFO DEN NY
MID ATLANTIC etc" (ie West to East) But a GC course would look more like
SFO MN Canada ICELAND drop down to London then FRANKFURT etc. (Almost
traveling from NORTH to SOUTH from a hemispheric standpoint)
Also a view of the SUN at the far northern Hemisphere would look
different than a view from the equator during the same time.
Might ask why Alaska is dark during the winter and light during the
summer for the entire day.
How about Earth tilt, planetary orbital ellipses, wobble, Axial
Precession, etc etc etc?
I probably muddied the water even more with these questions.
It will be interesting to read the additional comments.
(I admit I got very side tracked on this one)
RS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Josh Garfield <JGarfie1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Musings on aircraft values |
Responding to
who wrote
" the author of the AOPA article said current market value is just over $100
k."
I think I put this one out there before, but I contacted the author of the
AOPA article and he said the $106,00 to $112,000 value in the article was
for a 1960 500B in original (1960) configuration in average condition NOT
Alan Hart's totally restored 500B that the article was written about that
the owner spent $227,000 on. THAT 500B would be worth much more ....
Although probably not $227,000 . Yes you never get every $ out that you put
in but the value in the article was NOT for the value of that specific
aircraft .... This was just one of the misleading, confusing and inaccurate
items in the article..
Josh
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jjleon(at)att.net>
To:
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: Musings on aircraft values
> The recent discussions focusing on the gentleman wanting
> to restore a 680 and the recent AOPA Commander article
> tempt me to add my ramblings to the string of comments.
>
> In terms of the 680 project, I have to agree with the
> folks who have pointed out that if a buyer needs to
> figure out a scheme to help pay for the airplane, he is
> probably buying more airplane than he can realistically
> afford. And in the specific case of Commanders, all of
> us know that even after a thorough pre-purchase, the new
> buyer will still face a mountain of nuisance squawks
> that will take some time (read $$$) to correct.
>
> If done properly, you end up with the best airplane in
> the world. I take my hat of to Alan Hart who has
> invested $227 k on his 500B. The only downside to a
> huge investment like that: you may never get your money
> back. I have followed the thread of messages about how
> the author of the AOPA article said current market value
> is just over $100 k. Of course, we all believe that the
> Blue Book $$ is way undervalued in this case. But
> remember that fair market value, at least according to
> the folks in the world of finance, is the price that a
> willing buyer is willing to pay a seller assuming both
> parties have all available information.
>
> If you have a $200 k investment in a 500 series
> Commander and you want to sell, you will have to wait
> for and find an individual who values the time, expense
> and TLC you've put into the bird. If your finances
> change and you need to get out of the airplane quickly
> you will definitely not get top dollar. Which means
> prior to making that big investment in refurbing an
> inexpensive Commander, you better be very certain that
> this will be your dream airplane and that you will keep
> it for a long, long time. Unless, of course, you're
> like Big Al who has been known to throw in a case of
> vintage no-name to close a deal...
>
> Regards,
>
> Juan Leon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question |
In a message dated 01/07/02 18:13:24 Pacific Standard Time, sharp.r(at)apple.com
writes:
> I probably muddied the water even more with these questions.
> It will be interesting to read the additional comments.
Actually, Randy, I think you clarified the water.
You're right: A trip to the U.S. over Greenland looks like a parabolic curve
(when viewed on a Lambert Conformal Projection chart) and the aircraft was
probably on its southerly end of the arc over the west coast of Greenland,
plus/minus wind correction, as well.
If the aircraft was not flying a Great Circle route and flying the NAT
tracks, no telling where the dog-leg turn would be for the U.S.'s east coast
airports on that day.
There. That's almost plain English for "I don't know .... "
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model for Mission requirements |
In a message dated 01/07/02 22:40:51 Pacific Standard Time, MAAvera(at)aol.com
writes:
> After getting some understanding of all the models, I am leaning toward a
> 685.
Hello Mark,
Your choices are limited to the 685 and the 680 FL(P) or F(P) models, of
course.
Since your kids are small, you can probably take advantage of the 685's fuel
capacity for the Caribbean trips -- but without knowing which islands you
frequent and where you depart from, that may not be the deciding factor.
There is a very good Mr. RPM 680 FLP on the market, but quite honestly, from
your statement on the altitudes you already fly a single, I'd point you to
the 685 due to its better pressurization system.
Most of the 680 FL(P) or F(P) models I've flown did not make full pressure
while the 685s I've flown made red-line pressure at high power settings with
only about .5 to .8 psi drop at typical cruise power settings.
This is the first time I've recommended one model over another based on
smallish differences pressurization -- but I was struck by your current
choice of altitudes over the lowest terrain the nation in a single engine
aircraft.
I just have the sense you'll only reach for higher in a twin.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Folting <amcuprcc(at)home.com> |
Nico
Damm right. Welcome to the good ole USA. I just wish I could get some commander
time. Lot's of 757 type stuff though. Almost as good. Thanks for spending the
money to come over. I'm sure in the long run you will find it more than worth
it. And by the way, thanks for coming over legally.
John Folting-member
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: Delta Force
Thank you, Gary. I appreciate your response.
My letter, as you probably gathered right away, was written in a light-hearted
mood. It is, nevertheless, a serious subject, and I will take your advice and
get Eric's book. As a matter of casual conversation, perhaps my zeal for this
country and my faith in its prospect for longevity (call it the freedom dynasty),
can best be illustrated as follows (I know it's off the real topic, but
what the heck):
I am a brand new American with a multiple-century patriotism. Foreigners whom
I talk to call it an attitude. But so what.
Having grown up in a third-world country, I fully appreciate the value of some
'crisps' and when I meet up with a true American, of which the majority of this
country is still made up, I can always count on honest to goodness hospitality.
That's one of the reasons why I gave up almost everything to be here with
my family. It cost an arm and a leg to accomplish it legally but it was worth
every penny. In terms of historical terms, after a mere blink of the eye, I
have surpassed my compatriots who chose not to move away from communism. What
a great country!
Since I got used to the size of the place and had slain most of the demons that
were projected overseas about this country, I became a supreme commander of
those who fight against communism, liberalism, and socialism. I have no intention
to have happen here what happened in my old country. And I am not alone.
And I fly commanders. That ought to count for something.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: TILLMAN333(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:39 AM
Subject: Delta Force
Good Morning Nico,
You may find it very interesting to know that Eric Haney has written a book
about
his association with Delta Force...Go on line and check it out...
Also, he is from Lindale, Ga. a town in the Mountains of North Georgia. Next
to Rome.
And, yes he met with me regarding the need for a person such as himself to
retrieve
aircraft that were and are missing...
And as for the crisp $50's and $100's...I've had, on more than one occasion,
insured pilots enter Mexico, without the proper documentation...The last two
lads were
18 year old men joy riding in the family PA-32-300 aka Cherokee Six.
They flew into Mexico without the proper documents...They fit the profile...Young
males from USA flying a plane that will haul a Baby Grand Piano.
With the cash, they were allowed to complete the required documents and return
to
Texas.
As for you comments about Americans, all I can say is you are welcome at my
home, anytime...We call it Southern Hospitality...
We'll leave the light on for you and please don't forget the crisp $50's and
$100's...
The price of NO NAME increased after 01 JAN 02.
FlySafe,
Gary Tillman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
All the chatter about the choice and date is deafening.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question |
In a message dated 01/08/02 10:46:57 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> but what I would like to know is while the sun was visible in the south, how
> could the moon be in the north?
If you're absolutely positively sure the aircraft was heading West at the
time, I have no idea.
I'm only visiting this planet and not too sure how it works.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography |
question
The is at the South because is summer time in the southern hemispheroid, and the
moon at the north beacause the moon rotetes arround the earth
Andres P Geraghty
apg86(at)netscape.net
PS
I hope this might help
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>Commander,
>Over Greenland we were at the apex of the curve, which placed us tracking west
at the most northern latitude. I think we all agree on the parabolic curve (as
seen on a flat surface) but what I would like to know is while the sun was visible
in the south, how could the moon be in the north?
>Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
> To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>
>
> In a message dated 01/07/02 18:13:24 Pacific Standard Time, sharp.r(at)apple.com
writes:
>
>
> I probably muddied the water even more with these questions.
> It will be interesting to read the additional comments.
>
>
> Actually, Randy, I think you clarified the water.
>
> You're right: A trip to the U.S. over Greenland looks like a parabolic curve
(when viewed on a Lambert Conformal Projection chart) and the aircraft was probably
on its southerly end of the arc over the west coast of Greenland, plus/minus
wind correction, as well.
>
> If the aircraft was not flying a Great Circle route and flying the NAT tracks,
no telling where the dog-leg turn would be for the U.S.'s east coast airports
on that day.
>
> There. That's almost plain English for "I don't know .... "
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
--
__________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Addendum to the misunderstood commander COTM Dec. |
Since submission of the text in Miss December I had some extensive rework of the
fuel system on the R engine. I had been baffled by the fact that I wasn't getting
any where near book performance, or near what George Yundt was seeing in
his 685. I was also having to trim it for a small constant sideslip to hold
headings.
It appears that that R engine was developing far less HP than the left and appears
to have had its fuel controller calibrated off bench.
The plane now flies much closer to book performance and I no longer look like a
crooked dog slipping sideways down the glideslope.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question |
Gentlemen,
As one who has worked an IFR Bell 212 North of the Magnetic North Pole in the winters
of 78 and 79, I would help to clarify things if people would label bearings
as True or magnetic.
I remember flying West of Thule on the evening of Christmas and listening to Greenland
radio on the ADF while they spoke of Santa making his way South to the
Dew line.
It is strange in the 24 hour darkness, I likened it to the moon.
As Spring approached the sun would skirt around the globe at the same altitude
above the horizon.
I must say I do not have any memories of the moon in relationship to the sun.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 06:37
Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
Commander,
Over Greenland we were at the apex of the curve, which placed us tracking west
at the most northern latitude. I think we all agree on the parabolic curve (as
seen on a flat surface) but what I would like to know is while the sun was
visible in the south, how could the moon be in the north?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
In a message dated 01/07/02 18:13:24 Pacific Standard Time, sharp.r(at)apple.com
writes:
I probably muddied the water even more with these questions.
It will be interesting to read the additional comments.
Actually, Randy, I think you clarified the water.
You're right: A trip to the U.S. over Greenland looks like a parabolic curve
(when viewed on a Lambert Conformal Projection chart) and the aircraft was probably
on its southerly end of the arc over the west coast of Greenland, plus/minus
wind correction, as well.
If the aircraft was not flying a Great Circle route and flying the NAT tracks,
no telling where the dog-leg turn would be for the U.S.'s east coast airports
on that day.
There. That's almost plain English for "I don't know .... "
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ALERT, ALERT, MOTOR MOUNT CRACKS, TURBINE |
HI KIDS......
I have just received a maintenance alert from Gary Kromer at
COMMANDER AERO (937) 885 5580. They have found cracks in motor mounts on 680
T, V & W and the 681 airframes with abou 5000 to 6000TT. These have so far
only been in airplanes with century conversions. The cracks are hard to see
and in the yoke web. They have checked 6 mounts and found 4 cracked.
Commander Aero is creating a fixture to repair these mounts using
factory parts. They will try to have a set ready to exchange soon. If you
are a TCFG member, there is a great photo of a cracked mount in the latest
FGN, mailed tomorrow.
Contact Gary for more info. They will inspect your airplane fro free
if you take it to them or help your shop find the cracks.........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
They're all out shopping for new shirts Milt!
See you there!!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:53 PM
Subject: 2002 flyin
All the chatter about the choice and date is deafening.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | &%$$& %&##@%# ATC |
Ever notice you never get "Direct" when you want it, but as soon as you program
an approach into the GPS you always get direct or vectors. God how I love to
scramble to twist those knobs as I descend back into the muck and turbulence.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question |
Everybody is assuming that the orb in the photo is the moon. Could it be something
else? A reflection maybe?
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
In a message dated 01/08/02 10:46:57 Pacific Standard Time, nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
writes:
but what I would like to know is while the sun was visible in the south, how
could the moon be in the north?
If you're absolutely positively sure the aircraft was heading West at the time,
I have no idea.
I'm only visiting this planet and not too sure how it works.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography |
question
The is at the South because is summer time in the southern hemispheroid, and the
moon at the north beacause the moon rotetes arround the earth
Andres P Geraghty
apg86(at)netscape.net
PS
I hope this might help
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>Commander,
>Over Greenland we were at the apex of the curve, which placed us tracking west
at the most northern latitude. I think we all agree on the parabolic curve (as
seen on a flat surface) but what I would like to know is while the sun was visible
in the south, how could the moon be in the north?
>Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
> To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>
>
> In a message dated 01/07/02 18:13:24 Pacific Standard Time, sharp.r(at)apple.com
writes:
>
>
> I probably muddied the water even more with these questions.
> It will be interesting to read the additional comments.
>
>
> Actually, Randy, I think you clarified the water.
>
> You're right: A trip to the U.S. over Greenland looks like a parabolic curve
(when viewed on a Lambert Conformal Projection chart) and the aircraft was probably
on its southerly end of the arc over the west coast of Greenland, plus/minus
wind correction, as well.
>
> If the aircraft was not flying a Great Circle route and flying the NAT tracks,
no telling where the dog-leg turn would be for the U.S.'s east coast airports
on that day.
>
> There. That's almost plain English for "I don't know .... "
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
--
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the
convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question |
I took another look at Nicos photos and it appears the aircraft heading is 225
deg based on the line of the Suns reflection in the water. That would put th round
orblike object seen out the window on the right at a position slightly north
of west, based on my reckoning that is. The Orb just doesn't look big enough
to be the moon but I expect Nico had a better view than we do. This muddy it
up any better?
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: CloudCraft(at)aol.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
Everybody is assuming that the orb in the photo is the moon. Could it be something
else? A reflection maybe?
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
In a message dated 01/08/02 10:46:57 Pacific Standard Time, nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
writes:
but what I would like to know is while the sun was visible in the south,
how could the moon be in the north?
If you're absolutely positively sure the aircraft was heading West at the time,
I have no idea.
I'm only visiting this planet and not too sure how it works.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Addendum to the misunderstood commander COTM Dec. |
I'm willing to bet that after a couple jugs a' no-name, you resemble a crooked
dog just as much as you always have...
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: Addendum to the misunderstood commander COTM Dec.
Since submission of the text in Miss December I had some extensive rework of
the fuel system on the R engine. I had been baffled by the fact that I wasn't
getting any where near book performance, or near what George Yundt was seeing
in his 685. I was also having to trim it for a small constant sideslip to hold
headings.
It appears that that R engine was developing far less HP than the left and appears
to have had its fuel controller calibrated off bench.
The plane now flies much closer to book performance and I no longer look like
a crooked dog slipping sideways down the glideslope.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/8/02 1:03:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
> All the chatter about the choice and date is deafening.
> Milt
>
HI KIDS........
I was wondering if anybody noticed (cared).....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography |
question
Maybe what you saw was a reflection off of ice crystals.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 15:30
Subject: Re: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
> Hi, Andres.
> It explains why the sun is visible in the south, but the fact that the
moon
> rotates around the earth still binds it to a path that goes from east to
> west. It doesn't explain why it was on the northern horizon. I am
absolutely
> sure about the position and direction of the Boeing I was in. Check the
> pics.
> Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <apg86(at)netscape.net>
> To: "Nico van Niekerk" ;
>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:28 PM
> Subject: RE: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>
>
> > The is at the South because is summer time in the southern hemispheroid,
> and the moon at the north beacause the moon rotetes arround the earth
> >
> > Andres P Geraghty
> > apg86(at)netscape.net
> > PS
> > I hope this might help
> >
> > Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> >
> > >Commander,
> > >Over Greenland we were at the apex of the curve, which placed us
tracking
> west at the most northern latitude. I think we all agree on the parabolic
> curve (as seen on a flat surface) but what I would like to know is while
the
> sun was visible in the south, how could the moon be in the north?
> > >Nico
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
> > > To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:08 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > In a message dated 01/07/02 18:13:24 Pacific Standard Time,
> sharp.r(at)apple.com writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I probably muddied the water even more with these questions.
> > > It will be interesting to read the additional comments.
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually, Randy, I think you clarified the water.
> > >
> > > You're right: A trip to the U.S. over Greenland looks like a
parabolic
> curve (when viewed on a Lambert Conformal Projection chart) and the
aircraft
> was probably on its southerly end of the arc over the west coast of
> Greenland, plus/minus wind correction, as well.
> > >
> > > If the aircraft was not flying a Great Circle route and flying the
NAT
> tracks, no telling where the dog-leg turn would be for the U.S.'s east
coast
> airports on that day.
> > >
> > > There. That's almost plain English for "I don't know .... "
> > >
> > > Wing Commander Gordon
> > >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
> Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
> http://shopnow.netscape.com/
> >
> > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
> http://webmail.netscape.com/
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS......
I have sent out about 10 membership application in the last few
weeks. Only had one returned?? Just a reminder. The newsletter will be in
the mail tomorrow AM, hope everybody enjoys it. It has a lot of good info in
it. Thanks to Barry C. and WC Gordon..........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Addendum to the misunderstood commander COTM Dec. |
Hmmmmmm? I guess I'll accept that as a compliment.
From: John Vormbaum
I'm willing to bet that after a couple jugs a' no-name, you resemble a crooked
dog just as much as you always have...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)gte.net> |
Hey Jimbob - everyone seems to be turning astronomer on us -
who cares where the moon was! Talk to any old Pan Am 747 jock about how
weird things appear on the "polar" route.
I am excited, and I don't even own a Commander yet!
Jimbo (Seattle)
PS - remember, Jim . . . we live in a very "immediate"
society. Your time will come around!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: &%$$& %&##@%# ATC |
In a message dated 01/08/02 18:12:33 Pacific Standard Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
> Ever notice you never get "Direct" when you want it, but as soon as you
> program an approach into the GPS you always get direct or vectors. God how
> I love to scramble to twist those knobs as I descend back into the muck and
> turbulence.
My good Doctor Milt,
Exactly.
Las Vegas is boasting the U.S.'s first all-RNAV departure and arrival
procedures.
If you want to feel your brain do a slow roll, look at some of the arrivals:
they're runway specific and criss-cross each other.
L.A. center assigns an arrival, Las Vegas approach changes the runway, then
vectors direct to an intermediate fix, only to have the next sector tell us
to "resume the ______ arrival."
It's so bad that the pilot flying has to also do communications while the
pilot not flying is reprogramming the FMS.
Because of this, my flight department is hosting a meeting of the Las Vegas
TRACON to show them what happens in the cockpit when they make changes on the
fly.
This is a weird time in the history of air navigation. We're going
space-based and ATC finally has faith in our ability to go direct to any
point in space and is taking advantage of it.
However, the equipment we use can't keep up with the impromptu changes to
arrival or approach procedures -- and I'd hate to see us get stuck in VOR
type route structures because of flight deck work load.
By the way, I did look in to your question on using GPS for the FAR 91.171
VOR check and nobody wants to answer it. Looks like the VOR check has to be
logged using the methods the rule spells out.
Oh -- and if you think you don't need to do it because you're using all GPS
nav, look out. A few days ago, when on an all-GPS departure, ATC said to
"intercept the Boulder 135 degree radial to BOACH intersection, resume the
departure."
Well ... there are no radials depicted on the new procedures and I don't like
taking radials to nowhere. The controller knew this would work, I didn't and
I was kind of grouchy about it. But the point is, we were suddenly back to
VOR nav and did it seamlessly because I'm a tyrant and insist on having near
by VORs tuned and identified at all times. We were also legal because I log
VOR checks even though we use FMS all the time.
There's a moral to all this but I don't know what it is.
I'm rambling on about this on our chat list because as our Commanders get
upgraded and thus capable of new procedures, the single pilots out there are
in for a surprisingly large work load in the terminal area.
Got autopilot?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I was hoping the flyin was going to be in the same state.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 15:58
Subject: Fwd: 2002 flyin
In a message dated 1/8/02 1:03:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, N414C(at)cableone.net
writes:
All the chatter about the choice and date is deafening.
Milt
HI KIDS........
I was wondering if anybody noticed (cared).....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
I think that you hit on something that nobody has any complaints about. The loc
sound perfect to me
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 6:58 PM
Subject: Fwd: 2002 flyin
In a message dated 1/8/02 1:03:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, N414C(at)cableone.net
writes:
All the chatter about the choice and date is deafening.
Milt
HI KIDS........
I was wondering if anybody noticed (cared).....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography |
question
Hi Nico:
If you to this link you can enter the info of your position and you have a viw
like fromn the moon to the earth http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/action?opt=-p
if this dies not work this is the home page link http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html
and clik on Map of the earth, you will know where
was the moon at that particular time.
Andres P Geraghty
apg86(at)netscape.net
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>Hi, Andres.
>It explains why the sun is visible in the south, but the fact that the moon
>rotates around the earth still binds it to a path that goes from east to
>west. It doesn't explain why it was on the northern horizon. I am absolutely
>sure about the position and direction of the Boeing I was in. Check the
>pics.
>Nico
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <apg86(at)netscape.net>
>To: "Nico van Niekerk" ;
>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:28 PM
>Subject: RE: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>
>
>> The is at the South because is summer time in the southern hemispheroid,
>and the moon at the north beacause the moon rotetes arround the earth
>>
>> Andres P Geraghty
>> apg86(at)netscape.net
>> PS
>> I hope this might help
>>
>> Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>>
>> >Commander,
>> >Over Greenland we were at the apex of the curve, which placed us tracking
>west at the most northern latitude. I think we all agree on the parabolic
>curve (as seen on a flat surface) but what I would like to know is while the
>sun was visible in the south, how could the moon be in the north?
>> >Nico
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
>> > To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:08 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > In a message dated 01/07/02 18:13:24 Pacific Standard Time,
>sharp.r(at)apple.com writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I probably muddied the water even more with these questions.
>> > It will be interesting to read the additional comments.
>> >
>> >
>> > Actually, Randy, I think you clarified the water.
>> >
>> > You're right: A trip to the U.S. over Greenland looks like a parabolic
>curve (when viewed on a Lambert Conformal Projection chart) and the aircraft
>was probably on its southerly end of the arc over the west coast of
>Greenland, plus/minus wind correction, as well.
>> >
>> > If the aircraft was not flying a Great Circle route and flying the NAT
>tracks, no telling where the dog-leg turn would be for the U.S.'s east coast
>airports on that day.
>> >
>> > There. That's almost plain English for "I don't know .... "
>> >
>> > Wing Commander Gordon
>> >
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
>Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
>http://shopnow.netscape.com/
>>
>> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
>http://webmail.netscape.com/
>>
>
>
--
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the
convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
JIM --- IT'S JANUARY --- THE FLY IN IS LATE SEPTEMBER --- AS YOU DISCOVERED
FROM THE HILLSBORO EXPERIENCE THE EXCITEMENT BUILDS AS THE DATE APPROACHES.
--- THOSE OF US WHO ARE STILL ALIVE AND HAVE ENOUGH MONEY WILL BE AT THE FLY
IN WITH A GREAT DEAL OF ENTHUSIASM .
I MIGHT BE ABLE TO COERCE MILT AND TYLER TO VISIT P I SINCE WE WILL BE SO
CLOSE..
JIM
December 12, 2001 - January 09, 2002
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-aj