Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ak
January 09, 2002 - February 13, 2002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography |
question
Hi Nico:
If you to this link you can enter the info of your position and you have a viw
like fromn the moon to the earth http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/action?opt=-p
if this dies not work this is the home page link http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html
and clik on Map of the earth, you will know where
was the moon at that particular time.
Andres P Geraghty
apg86(at)netscape.net
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>Hi, Andres.
>It explains why the sun is visible in the south, but the fact that the moon
>rotates around the earth still binds it to a path that goes from east to
>west. It doesn't explain why it was on the northern horizon. I am absolutely
>sure about the position and direction of the Boeing I was in. Check the
>pics.
>Nico
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <apg86(at)netscape.net>
>To: "Nico van Niekerk" ;
>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:28 PM
>Subject: RE: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>
>
>> The is at the South because is summer time in the southern hemispheroid,
>and the moon at the north beacause the moon rotetes arround the earth
>>
>> Andres P Geraghty
>> apg86(at)netscape.net
>> PS
>> I hope this might help
>>
>> Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>>
>> >Commander,
>> >Over Greenland we were at the apex of the curve, which placed us tracking
>west at the most northern latitude. I think we all agree on the parabolic
>curve (as seen on a flat surface) but what I would like to know is while the
>sun was visible in the south, how could the moon be in the north?
>> >Nico
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
>> > To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:08 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > In a message dated 01/07/02 18:13:24 Pacific Standard Time,
>sharp.r(at)apple.com writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I probably muddied the water even more with these questions.
>> > It will be interesting to read the additional comments.
>> >
>> >
>> > Actually, Randy, I think you clarified the water.
>> >
>> > You're right: A trip to the U.S. over Greenland looks like a parabolic
>curve (when viewed on a Lambert Conformal Projection chart) and the aircraft
>was probably on its southerly end of the arc over the west coast of
>Greenland, plus/minus wind correction, as well.
>> >
>> > If the aircraft was not flying a Great Circle route and flying the NAT
>tracks, no telling where the dog-leg turn would be for the U.S.'s east coast
>airports on that day.
>> >
>> > There. That's almost plain English for "I don't know .... "
>> >
>> > Wing Commander Gordon
>> >
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
>Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
>http://shopnow.netscape.com/
>>
>> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
>http://webmail.netscape.com/
>>
>
>
--
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Addendum to the misunderstood commander COTM Dec. |
Absolutely!
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: John Vormbaum ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Addendum to the misunderstood commander COTM Dec.
Hmmmmmm? I guess I'll accept that as a compliment.
From: John Vormbaum
I'm willing to bet that after a couple jugs a' no-name, you resemble a crooked
dog just as much as you always have...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Here's why the moon was in the north... |
Yeah, EXACTLEY!!!! That's right, the moon was on the other side of the
world. And when viewed from down under was actually in the SOUTH!!!
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michrandi(at)aol.com <Michrandi(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Addendum to the misunderstood commander COTM Dec. |
John, It appears that when you were finished your round of golf
on Fri., the greens looked like the "MOONSCAPE." I was asked if I knew you?
And like the lawyer said, deny,deny,deny.
Glad you had a good time, see you soon.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Things aren't always as they appear..... |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Here's why the moon was in the north... |
Yeah, EXACTLEY!!!! That's right, the moon was on the other side of the
world. And when viewed from down under was actually in the SOUTH!!!
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography |
question
You are welcome
Andres
apg86(at)netscape.net
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>What a great link, Andres. Thank you very much. It proves my theory exactly.
>I punched in the time (12/31/2001) and the UTC of 15:00 and checked the
>moon. It was exactly where I said I saw it.
>Great stuff, and thanks again. I will bookmark this site.
>Nico
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <apg86(at)netscape.net>
>To: "Nico van Niekerk" ;
>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 9:17 AM
>Subject: RE: Re: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>
>
>> Hi Nico:
>> If you to this link you can enter the info of your position and you have a
>viw like fromn the moon to the earth
>http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/action?opt=-p if this dies not
>work this is the home page link
>http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html and clik on Map of the earth,
>you will know where was the moon at that particular time.
>>
>> Andres P Geraghty
>> apg86(at)netscape.net
>> Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>>
>> >Hi, Andres.
>> >It explains why the sun is visible in the south, but the fact that the
>moon
>> >rotates around the earth still binds it to a path that goes from east to
>> >west. It doesn't explain why it was on the northern horizon. I am
>absolutely
>> >sure about the position and direction of the Boeing I was in. Check the
>> >pics.
>> >Nico
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: <apg86(at)netscape.net>
>> >To: "Nico van Niekerk" ;
>> >
>> >Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:28 PM
>> >Subject: RE: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>> >
>> >
>> >> The is at the South because is summer time in the southern
>hemispheroid,
>> >and the moon at the north beacause the moon rotetes arround the earth
>> >>
>> >> Andres P Geraghty
>> >> apg86(at)netscape.net
>> >> PS
>> >> I hope this might help
>> >>
>> >> Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Commander,
>> >> >Over Greenland we were at the apex of the curve, which placed us
>tracking
>> >west at the most northern latitude. I think we all agree on the parabolic
>> >curve (as seen on a flat surface) but what I would like to know is while
>the
>> >sun was visible in the south, how could the moon be in the north?
>> >> >Nico
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
>> >> > To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>> >> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:08 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: Some nice pics over Greenland and a Geography question
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> > In a message dated 01/07/02 18:13:24 Pacific Standard Time,
>> >sharp.r(at)apple.com writes:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I probably muddied the water even more with these questions.
>> >> > It will be interesting to read the additional comments.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Actually, Randy, I think you clarified the water.
>> >> >
>> >> > You're right: A trip to the U.S. over Greenland looks like a
>parabolic
>> >curve (when viewed on a Lambert Conformal Projection chart) and the
>aircraft
>> >was probably on its southerly end of the arc over the west coast of
>> >Greenland, plus/minus wind correction, as well.
>> >> >
>> >> > If the aircraft was not flying a Great Circle route and flying the
>NAT
>> >tracks, no telling where the dog-leg turn would be for the U.S.'s east
>coast
>> >airports on that day.
>> >> >
>> >> > There. That's almost plain English for "I don't know .... "
>> >> >
>> >> > Wing Commander Gordon
>> >> >
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________________________
>> >> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
>> >Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
>> >http://shopnow.netscape.com/
>> >>
>> >> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
>> >http://webmail.netscape.com/
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
>Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
>http://shopnow.netscape.com/
>>
>> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
>http://webmail.netscape.com/
>>
>
>
--
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the
convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.........
I just thought would let everyone know that all the FGNs are in
the mail. The domestic ones were mailed yesterday and all foreign are on the
way today, YEA! I hope you enjoy them. ......... jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
I certainly appreciate the concern, and I did read the article about not buying
a twin commander. Please don't stop the advice, I am still in the 'shopping'
but seriously shopping.
I will address the issues in that article:
- Both engines were last majored in 1968 and are in dire need of an overhaul even
though they're only "mid-time". All the lines etc are brittle and leaking in
the
nacell and must be replaced.
I think one was done in 1978 and one in the 80's. The RT was TOH'd about 20 hours
ago. The left has 900. Oil had filled all the cylinders prior to the ferry
flight, so hopefully that pickled them.
- The props must be overhauled due to AD and the best bet is to just replace with
new due to cost.
Done, 40 hours on new Hartzells. the paint isnt even nicked yet.
- The thing leaks hydraulic fluid from just about everywhere due to old hoses and
seals.
Did not leak in a 4.1 hr flight with a fuel stop.
- The janitrol heater needs overhauled
Worked well I am told.
- Tires must be replaced
Looked fine to me, dunno about time.
- brakes are shot
No problems noted by pilot, something to check in the annual.
- the windshield must be replaced.
all the glass looked good. What do you need to replace for? Perhaps a little polish
but all looked good, the windshield looked better than the other windows.
- flap pulley AD requires replacement
For the 680 also? when was this due? 1998 was the last annual
- trim tab indicators don't work and need rebuilt
unknown
- the old Mk12 radios are not even legal and must be replaced (even if they did
work)
The trays are there for a KX155 and I think GNS 430. Radios were stolen but the
XPDR is there. Radios slide in, and are done. I am planning on using a handheld
and a coax for external antenna connection as a temp solution. VFR only for
now.
- Several control cable must be replaced
Unknown, but the pilot flying has 6500 hours with a lot of ferry work done. He
also has done supervised A&P type work. Uknown, but this guys no fool. He has
owned a 680 before also. As well as one or two commander a/c. I asked why he wasn't
buying it if it was such a good deal and he said he had two other a/c to
keep hime busy. And I think he's married, which ought to make his wife a saint.
- half the instruments and gyros are out of cal or don't work
Nothing noted by the pilot. I think there are 'new' gyros for the autopilot and
HSI. I noted new wiring and black boxes in the avionics compartment.
Paint in my opinion just needs some waxing and TLC. The interior walls and headliner
were new in 1997. Suede headliner, what looks like leather on the walls.
It matches the leather seats but could be vinyl. Carpet needed , but that's gotta
be cheap. Seats need to be reassembled. I guess the DEA was looking for drugs,
but they took care with the leather at least.
I agree that it's all a frightening prospect, but worst case, part it out, it's
pretty much at that price already. And the shops seem amenable to helping me.
I told one I'd even take some leave to assist with the annual. He didn't want
to do it because some other owner assisting him left in the middle for while,
tying up space. I told him I'd take two weeks off if he'd let me help. That seemed
ok.
The airframe shop is at the other end of the hangar, and the ferry pilot who flew
it in works for them. He does sheetmetal work. He also said he'd help me. Plus
there's the guy from this list who said he'd help. Plus I know a couple more
A&P's I think I can beg borry plead or buy time from. I have lots of pilots
in the Air Force, at least one with MEI/ATP I can lean on, trading flight time
or even sell a share to.
I agree, it's daunting, but it could turn out remarkably well just as easily as
remarkably crappy.
Worst case, I part it out or sell it to someone else who will, and write the rest
off as a business loss. Keeping it at the airport will only cost me $35 a month.
And it's about 10-15 mins from where I drop my kids off for daycare so it's
convenient. Again, $29,500 is the price, the metal shop said I can help and
they will make me a deal on the belly work. I told the guy if I give him his
asking price with no dickering, I get to help and he said I can "lean on him
for the metal work" end quote.
I also know other folks at the airport I can get some help from, and the guy at
the flight school I work for has flown (and owned ? I forget) some commanders.
I'm being very cautious on this, but it seems like it may be a good deal that just
dropped in my lap. I think sometimes the man upstairs leads you to things.
I mean, what are the odds: I walk in to a shop to ask about 560A's to one guy,
and 5 mins later the shop owner at the other end walks in and the conversation
turns to: "Well why don't you buy his?" , i.e., the one that arrived in OKC
around the same time you started to look at Commander's! Hopefully it's a gift
from God that will turn out well, vs. a curse. Perhaps it's somewhere in the
middle, but I am still researching. I figure I win the lottery soon, that'll
be a 100% clear message to go for it.
At any rate, if I do get it, rest assured the list will be seeing photos, and video
of it. Perhaps I can even make that flyin.
-Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS........
Welcome Marcio Do Nascimento to our ranks. Marcio is the proud
owner of a model 720 (pressurized 680E). There were only 13 of these
groundbreaking machines made, (the first private airplane with
pressurization), and only a handful remain today. Macio's has been neglected
and is being restored. We are fortunate to have someone willing to save this
great airplane in the group. Good Luck ...........jb
PS Barrry, I think your artist friend that did the illustrations for
your book may want to contact him?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
what book?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 01/10/02 22:44:28 Pacific Standard Time,
rcbullock(at)home.com writes:
> I'm being very cautious on this, but it seems like it may be a good deal
> that just dropped in my lap.
Robert,
After reading your post we can rule out insanity.
You seem well reasoned and willing to take the risk, its rewards or
frustrations.
We'll be here with lots of free advice and opinions -- and worth every penny
at that.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
I NEED A REMINDER
MY AIRCRAFT INSURANCE IS DUE IN ABOUT 60 DAYS. TILLMAN IS GETTING A QUOTE
BUT THERE IS A GAL IN TEXAS WHO WAS QUOTING SOME PRETTY GOOD NUMBERS LAST
YEAR. I HAVE THE DATA AT HOME BUT I'M OUT OF TOWN. DOES ANYONE HAVE HER
NAME AND NUMBER. ALSO, ARE THERE OTHER SOURCES WHICH ARE GIVING US
REASONABLE RATES FOR COMMANDERS?
CAN ANYONE HELP?
JIM FURLONG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Martha Stewarts Tips for RNCP |
Martha Stewarts Tips for Rednecks General
* Never take a beer to a job interview.
* Always identify people in your yard before shooting at them.
* Its considered tacky to take a cooler to church.
* If you have to vacuum the bed, it is time to change the sheets.
* Even if youre certain that you are included in the will, it is still considered
tacky to drive a U-Haul to the funeral home.
Dining Out
* When decanting wine, make sure that you tilt the paper cup, and pour slowly so
as not to bruise the fruit of the wine.
* If drinking directly from the bottle, always hold it with your fingers covering
the label.
Entertaining At Your Home
* A centerpiece for the table should never be anything prepared by a taxidermist.
* Do not allow the dog to eat at the table...no matter how good his manners are.
Personal Hygiene
* While ears need to be cleaned regularly, this is a job that should be done in
private using ones OWN truck keys.
* Proper use of toiletries can forestall bathing for several days.
* However, if you live alone, deodorant is a waste of good money.
* Dirt and grease under the fingernails is a social no-no, as they tend to detract
from a womans jewelry and alter the taste of finger foods.
Dating (outside the family)
* Always offer to bait your dates hook, especially on the first date.
* Be aggressive. Let her know youre interested: Ive been wanting to go out with
you since I read that stuff on the bathroom wall two years ago.
* Establish with her parents what time she is expected back. Some will say 10:00
PM; Others might say Monday. If the latter is the answer, it is the mans
responsibility to get her to school on time.
Theater Etiquette
* Crying babies should be taken to the lobby and picked up immediately after the
movie has ended.
* Refrain from talking to characters on the screen. Tests have proven they cant
hear you.
Weddings
* Livestock, usually, is a poor choice for a wedding gift.
* Kissing the bride for more than 5 seconds may get you shot.
* For the groom, at least, rent a tux. A leisure suit with a cummerbund and a clean
bowling shirt can create a tacky appearance.
* Though uncomfortable, say yes to socks and shoes for this special occasion.
Driving Etiquette
* Dim your headlights for approaching vehicles; Even if the gun is loaded, and
the deer is in sight.
* When approaching a four-way stop, the vehicle with the largest tires always has
the right of way.
* Never tow another car using panty hose and duct tape.
* When sending your wife down the road with a gas can, it is impolite to ask her
to bring back beer.
* Do not lay rubber while traveling in a funeral procession
--
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the
convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Commander-friendly Insurance |
In a message dated 01/11/02 18:27:09 Pacific Standard Time, Furlong5(at)aol.com
writes:
> TILLMAN IS GETTING A QUOTE BUT THERE IS A GAL IN TEXAS WHO WAS QUOTING SOME
> PRETTY GOOD NUMBERS LAST YEAR.
Jim,
Many moons ago the Twin Commander Flight Group was working with Falcon
Insurance in Dallas to set up a group rate.
The reality is, the TCFG isn't big enough for a group rate -- the American
Bonanza Society with 10,000 members isn't big enought either -- and the
insurance industry still wants to look at every individual, not a group.
But I digress.
The person I was working with 4 years ago was:
Lynn Hughes
Falcon Insurance, Dallas
P.O. Box 706
Addison TX 75001
tel: 972-250-0800
tel: 800-880-0801
fax: 972-250-2754
http://www.falconinsurance.com
LHughes722(at)aol.com
Don't know if Lynn is still there, but if not, someone at Falcon could help
you. Falcon / Dallas came to a TCFG Fly-In to learn more about the Commander
market. They really made an effort to help us out, within the constraints of
the industry.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Milt,
That'll be the book which I'm working on in conjunction with Derek Monk and
Chris Haag.
It's a few years down the line, but am hoping it'll be worth the wait.
Don't worry, you'll all know when it's published!!!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "N414C" <N414C(at)cableone.net>
To: ;
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: NEW MEMBER
| what book?
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
If you don't understand that there is a fine line between hobby and mental
illness,you might be a RED NECKED COMMANDER PILOT! BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | i.aso Automatic Notification |
HEY GUYS, HERE IS A FIXER-UPPER!!! 560A for about 20K, and the props are at
an overhaul shop, It will be another 13K to get them out of hock.
But you might just have a decent Twin Commander for about 35K or so!!
Cut and paste this link into your browser, and it will take right to
airplane.
> http://www.ASO.com/i.aso/AdView.jsp?aircraft_id=58507&profile_id=11523&
> autonoto_id=519520442841119
JetPaul>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
Jim: / etc...
I read your e-mail concerning the insurance issue.
There is a thing called cheap insurance.
Generally speaking you get what you pay for.
I only use companies with A rating by AM Best rating service, or better.
Also,
I've been flying and insuring planes and property for over 20 years...
As previously noted, I own a Commander...
My Insurance recommendations are not solely based on price.
So my recommendation is that if a person wants cheap insurance with stripped
coverage...then call Avemco or some no name carrier...as for me, I'm
recommending coverage over price...
When was the last time you let the low bidder do the maintenance on your
plane (or the one you operate) or install avionics?
I trust you get the picture...
To reduce your premiums, get an IPC on an annual basis...some pilots need it
every month...especially if you have updated avionics such as the
Garmin 430 and 530 series...Ask Capt. Sprayberry how important this can
be...
He's retired PAN-AM and he did an IPC after purchasing his 680FP from Jock
Shaw...to familiarize himself with the Approach approved GPS.
If you do not have an Instrument rating...then get it. There is no excuse.
I'm amazed at you guys who brag about flying VFR on top through the
Mountains...obviously you've never lost and engine at altitude, above the
single engine service ceiling...
If you can afford to fly a high performance plane, then get the IFR rating.
Statistically, this is the best life insurance for a pilot.
No excuses! I've head them all..
As a Civil Air Patrol pilot, I can assure you that over 50% of the fatalities
have been VFR pilots flying into IMC.
End of conversation...JUST DO IT...
Fly Safe,
Gary Tillman
800-228-4283
tillman333(at)aol.com
Ps. The cost of reinsurance increased by 100% for many companies ... and many
companies are starting to require two person crews, when liability limits of
$25,000,000 or greater is desired...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
Gary,
Yes Sir, I am getting my IFR (instrument rating) already.
But I have to ask the dumb question. What is an IPC?
It is the bane of all technowizards and Government types to use the letters
that we all do not know.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: TILLMAN333(at)aol.com [mailto:TILLMAN333(at)aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:47 AM
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: RATES-reply
Jim: / etc...
I read your e-mail concerning the insurance issue.
There is a thing called cheap insurance.
Generally speaking you get what you pay for.
I only use companies with A rating by AM Best rating service, or better.
Also,
I've been flying and insuring planes and property for over 20 years...
As previously noted, I own a Commander...
My Insurance recommendations are not solely based on price.
So my recommendation is that if a person wants cheap insurance with stripped
coverage...then call Avemco or some no name carrier...as for me, I'm
recommending coverage over price...
When was the last time you let the low bidder do the maintenance on your
plane (or the one you operate) or install avionics?
I trust you get the picture...
To reduce your premiums, get an IPC on an annual basis...some pilots need it
every month...especially if you have updated avionics such as the
Garmin 430 and 530 series...Ask Capt. Sprayberry how important this can
be...
He's retired PAN-AM and he did an IPC after purchasing his 680FP from Jock
Shaw...to familiarize himself with the Approach approved GPS.
If you do not have an Instrument rating...then get it. There is no excuse.
I'm amazed at you guys who brag about flying VFR on top through the
Mountains...obviously you've never lost and engine at altitude, above the
single engine service ceiling...
If you can afford to fly a high performance plane, then get the IFR rating.
Statistically, this is the best life insurance for a pilot.
No excuses! I've head them all..
As a Civil Air Patrol pilot, I can assure you that over 50% of the
fatalities have been VFR pilots flying into IMC.
End of conversation...JUST DO IT...
Fly Safe,
Gary Tillman
800-228-4283
tillman333(at)aol.com
Ps. The cost of reinsurance increased by 100% for many companies ... and
many companies are starting to require two person crews, when liability
limits of $25,000,000 or greater is desired...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Just got around to reading the January issue of In-Flight USA
magazine...kudos to Jim Metzger for the fine article (and "cover story")
about his 680E - 222JS. His love for the airplane is obvious throughout his
description of impressive performance figures, comfort, and flying quality.
Really enjoyed reading the article...and now have an even greater
appreciation for my 680F.
Thanks for the good work.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
Tylor Hall wrote:
>
>But I have to ask the dumb question. What is an IPC?
>
>Regards,
>
>Tylor Hall
>tylorh(at)sound.net
>913-422-8869
>
IPC Instrument Proficiency Check, you need one evry six month to stay current or
do 6 apporches and a holding, and have some vectors to stay current my self
I have an IPC every six month
Regards
Andreas
apg86(at)netscape.net
--
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the
convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Great Article |
In a message dated 01/12/02 22:06:48 Pacific Standard Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> Just got around to reading the January issue of In-Flight USA
> magazine...kudos to Jim Metzger for the fine article (and "cover story")
> about his 680E - 222JS.
I want to add my thanks and compliments also.
Capt. Jimbob, you're becomming quite the writer and publisher!
Sir Barry - I love the histories of notable persons and corporations who have
owned Commanders. Fine work, lad!
Haven't read all of the magazine yet -- but it looks great and am looking
forward to the rest of the pages.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
>>
>>
560A for about 20K, and the props are at an overhaul shop, It will be
another 13K to get them out of hock.
But you might just have a decent Twin Commander for about 35K or so!!
Gday Mark
What do reckon on this one??
Cheers
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
IPC= Instument Proficiency Check
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arizphys(at)aol.com <Arizphys(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | 500 Nose Gear Collapse |
I didn't know if the pilot of the 500 that had a nose gear collapse at Falcon
Field this afternoon (in Mesa, AZ) is on this list......but if he is, I just
wanted to say KUDOS for the incredible landing that you did despite having
the nose gear collapse on touchdown! I watched for the 45 minutes or so that
the trouble shooting was going on and was very impressed with the subsequent
landing. Great job!!! Hope the repairs aren't too extensive. Best wishes.
Kristina Huffman
KFFZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS......
Did everybody get their newsletters?? Also, look for a copy of
In-Flight USA on an FBO news stand near you. Triple 2 is on the cover and a
pilot report inside. I haven't seen it in print yet but have had a couple of
call from new Commander guys so I know it is out there.
I have a short biz trip in triple 2 tomorrow, an appraisal on a Piper
Warrior in The Dals OR, on the Columbia River. Hope all is well......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> Did everybody get their newsletters??
Got mine yesterday jb - another outstanding issue!
I think this one is also the best so far in layout quality.
(is lexography the proper term?)
I had talked to Mr Towner some time back about the TKS system
and he pretty much talked me out of considering retrofiting
that system to anything I'd own. It's a fairly major
installation. It is great for their cargo applications, but
probably not terribly attractive for most private owners.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Hey Chris,
We are all anxious to see Miss January
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Insurance on a 680! OW Though... |
I finally got a quote (Thanks for all the hard work Gary) and it's pretty
steep, $4845 annually, which roughly equals the car payment on my 2001
Toyota Prius.
So, now the wife is offline on the Commander. I think there may be too many
battle to be fought here, but I'll keep you updated.
For the insurance page on the website:
300TT
11.3 ME (in a Duchess-easiest checkride ever)
Instrument, CFI, CFII
$50K hull value, $100 not in motion deductible, $2500 all other
$1,000,000 Combined, $100,000 per pax.
Must have 20 hours dual with a CFI who meets the req's of the open pilot
policy
30 in make and model before any pax liability is available.
Open pilot:
Private Pilot, MEL, 1000TT, 250ME, 25 make and model
Clean for 5 years and age 25-65
$4845 annually
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
Hi all,
Could anyone scan and Email the article on 222 to us upside down mortals here
in Oz . Russell and I would be most grateful.
Regards,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance on a 680! OW Though... |
$100,000.00 maybe all you can get in the way of 'per seat' liability but let
me tell you it is not enough.
Hells bells your per seat car insurance is probably over a million!.
I'd suggest you get a lawyer to make up a waiver form for anything in excess
of $100,000.00 that you make you passengers sign and leave the waiver behind
on the ground.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Bullock" <rcbullock(at)home.com>
To: "Commander Chat (E-mail)"
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 09:22
Subject: Insurance on a 680! OW Though...
> I finally got a quote (Thanks for all the hard work Gary) and it's pretty
> steep, $4845 annually, which roughly equals the car payment on my 2001
> Toyota Prius.
>
> So, now the wife is offline on the Commander. I think there may be too
many
> battle to be fought here, but I'll keep you updated.
>
> For the insurance page on the website:
>
> 300TT
> 11.3 ME (in a Duchess-easiest checkride ever)
> Instrument, CFI, CFII
>
> $50K hull value, $100 not in motion deductible, $2500 all other
> $1,000,000 Combined, $100,000 per pax.
>
> Must have 20 hours dual with a CFI who meets the req's of the open pilot
> policy
> 30 in make and model before any pax liability is available.
> Open pilot:
> Private Pilot, MEL, 1000TT, 250ME, 25 make and model
> Clean for 5 years and age 25-65
> $4845 annually
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance on a 680! OW Though... |
In a message dated 1/15/02 1:31:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rcbullock(at)home.com writes:
> 300TT
> 11.3 ME (in a Duchess-easiest checkride ever)
> Instrument, CFI, CFII
>
> $50K hull value, $100 not in motion deductible, $2500 all other
> $1,000,000 Combined, $100,000 per pax.
>
> Must have 20 hours dual with a CFI who meets the req's of the open pilot
> policy
> 30 in make and model before any pax liability is available.
>
Know what, Rich?
Believe it or don't, that's a very liberal policy and not so expensive,
considering what pilots with thousands of hours and hundreds of hours in type
are paying for their policies.
The training requirement is right in line with what the industry has been
demanding for the past 5 years or so.
I've seen as high as 40 hours dual / 20 hours solo before carrying pax for
pilots with 3000TT, 1000 multi.
I know this will not convince your wife you've found a good deal, but you
have.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance on a 680! OW Though... |
>Believe it or don't, that's a very liberal policy and not so expensive
>Wing Commander Gordon
If you want to feel a bit better about your insurance premiums,
look at your auto insurance, then divide the premium by the aprox
value of the vehicle. I think you'll find aircraft insurance to
actually be in line with your car in cost per insured dollar value.
My Viking was actually cheaper than my wifes Honda Civic when
calculated that way. (and that explaination made her MUCH happier
about paying the bill :-)
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
ditto, except I'm in Canada
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: RnJThompson(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 13:10
Subject: JBs Article
Hi all,
Could anyone scan and Email the article on 222 to us upside down mortals here
in Oz . Russell and I would be most grateful.
Regards,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | 680: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
Well, since it looks like I won't be buying the 680, anyone want to arrange to
buy it? I will be happy to do legwork for it, for a finder's fee. Copying logbooks,
taking photos, video, working arrangements as nescessary.
Another potential buyer has paid for AD research and a compression check.
No AD's outstanding, and one cylinder was at 70, and the others were 74/80 or better.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
JB,
Is there a web site for In-Flight?? The one that I had stopped being
updated in Aug of 01.
Can you get permission to post it on aerocommander.com???
We do not get In-Flight here in the Midwest either.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: RnJThompson(at)aol.com [mailto:RnJThompson(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:10 PM
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: JBs Article
Hi all,
Could anyone scan and Email the article on 222 to us upside down mortals
here in Oz . Russell and I would be most grateful.
Regards,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
Finders Fee ????????
Anyone want advice about an aerocommander? Ill be happy to give it for an advice
fee!!!!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:54 PM
Subject: 680: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
Well, since it looks like I won't be buying the 680, anyone want to arrange to
buy it? I will be happy to do legwork for it, for a finder's fee. Copying logbooks,
taking photos, video, working arrangements as nescessary.
Another potential buyer has paid for AD research and a compression check.
No AD's outstanding, and one cylinder was at 70, and the others were 74/80 or
better.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
Anyone who's been on this list for awhile probably was a
little taken aback my Mr. Bullock's offer. This is such a passion for
the majority on the site that the thought of profiting off of the
consideration, or buying, of an aircraft (when that is not one's
occupation) is quite aways out in left field.
Jim Jorgensen (Seattle)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Calvin Alston <alsmgt(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | my first commander |
Dear Sirs;
Mt name is Dale Alston, I am a 150 hour new pilot. I now have a C-182P which I
fly regularly. I am ready for more speed and the redundancy of two engines. I
have a friend who has a strsit 500 commander which I like very well.
Everything I read seems to suggest that the twin commander is one of the most docile
twins around and might make a good choice for my first twin. Am I reading
this right and if so how do you feel about transitioning from a single to a
twin commander?
Also it seems that 500B's are in good demand as reflected by the prices, but 560F
models are cheaper. I assume this is because they have geared engines therefore
less desireable.
Please give me your insight as to which way you think I should go. Also send this
to your membership so I can get some experienced input, it would be greatly
appreciated.
One more thing, if anyone in the group has a good deal on a plane let me know.
Thank You in advance for your input,
Dale Alston
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)gte.net> |
Doesn't the internet freeze up there about January??? Jim
Jorgensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Not in Vancouver, BC.
Florida had colder temperatures last week then we did.
It has hit a horrible -1 degree C 3 times this winter.
I don not have to mow the lawn but it is as green as it is in mid summer.
Up there indeed.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: res00rbl
To: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca ; commanderchat-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 08:30
Subject: RE: JBs Article
Doesn't the internet freeze up there about January??? Jim Jorgensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
Us SOUTHERN BOYS know what you can find,and what you can put there after you
move both of your hands!!!Finders fee my A#3!!!! BIG AL
>From: N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net>
>To: Robert Bullock , Commander Chat
>
>Subject: Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
>Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 05:46:24 -0600
>
>Finders Fee ????????
>Anyone want advice about an aerocommander? Ill be happy to give it for an
>advice fee!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Bullock
> To: Commander Chat
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:54 PM
> Subject: 680: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
>
>
> Well, since it looks like I won't be buying the 680, anyone want to
>arrange to buy it? I will be happy to do legwork for it, for a finder's
>fee. Copying logbooks, taking photos, video, working arrangements as
>nescessary.
>
> Another potential buyer has paid for AD research and a compression
>check.
>
> No AD's outstanding, and one cylinder was at 70, and the others were
>74/80 or better.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)gte.net> |
Tom - just kidding, my friend - I live in Seattle (only two
hours south for the geographically challenged). It has definitely been
mild the last few years. However, I have just started a fire in the
woodstove - just a little nippy here.
Take care - Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
> I will be happy to do legwork for it, for a finder's
> >fee. Copying logbooks, taking photos, video, working arrangements as
> >nescessary.
>
Robert's request for a "finder's fee" has brought a bit of "reaction" raining
down upon him.
While the idea of a finder's fee is not popular with this group, do take a
look at what he was really offering: To be on-site and do some actual work.
Perhaps the term "finder's fee" was not the best to use (reminds us of
aircraft brokers -- and most buyers hate brokers -- until they're aircraft
sellers).
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I know you were, I had my tongue firmly in my cheek.
I had to take advantage of the meteorological conditions across North America this
last week because I was amused how Florida was so much colder then here.
You have to admit it though that a lot of non pilots still think of snow and ice
when you mention Canada.
I know that this little corner of Canada is a temperate paradise.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: res00rbl
To: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 09:28
Subject: RE: JBs Article
Tom - just kidding, my friend - I live in Seattle (only two hours south
for the geographically challenged). It has definitely been mild the last
few years. However, I have just started a fire in the woodstove - just a little
nippy here.
Take care - Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: my first commander |
Chris,
Do we keep archives? If not lets keep all of our replies to Mr. Alston in one location
and then add them to the website especially the insurance related responses.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Calvin Alston
To: commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:01 AM
Subject: my first commander
Dear Sirs;
Mt name is Dale Alston, I am a 150 hour new pilot. I now have a C-182P which
I fly regularly. I am ready for more speed and the redundancy of two engines.
I have a friend who has a strsit 500 commander which I like very well.
Everything I read seems to suggest that the twin commander is one of the most
docile twins around and might make a good choice for my first twin. Am I reading
this right and if so how do you feel about transitioning from a single to
a twin commander?
Also it seems that 500B's are in good demand as reflected by the prices, but
560F models are cheaper. I assume this is because they have geared engines therefore
less desireable.
Please give me your insight as to which way you think I should go. Also send
this to your membership so I can get some experienced input, it would be greatly
appreciated.
One more thing, if anyone in the group has a good deal on a plane let me know.
Thank You in advance for your input,
Dale Alston
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
Yeah, if I just said 'Hey, ole jim bob has one for sale' then I wouldn't expect
one. What I would like one for is stuff like going and taking photos myself and
VIDEO, and encoding said video for transmission (Money in software, and hardware
to do this), sending it over the Internet (So I need a high speed connection=$$$),
going and getting fiche from the FAA (they are in town, but it takes
time and effort), and working with the shop who owns it, whom I feel I developed
a rapport with. Plus whatever else the prospective buyer might want.
This is kind of like the guy whom I offered to split time with in my 680 at $100
and hour for his end getting upset about that. $200 an hour is still below the
operating costs of a 680, and his comment about splitting the time was: "What
, and pay for your plane for you?"
Advice is on how to fix a car is usually free. Working on the car for you probably
would not be. Telling you what to invest your money is free all over the place,
try The Motley Fool. Investing it for you usually involves a fee. Telling
you where a plane is, would be free. Doing lots of legwork, producing digital
video, taking digital pics, long distance phone calls to work with you, copying
and faxing logs or portions thereof, going to the FAA to get fiche, etc etc.
that is beyond what I would do out of the goodness of my heart. So, it ain't
free.
There are very few instances where you can make money by giving advice.
However, if you are coming to OKC, then you will get introduced around, see the
680 for yourself, and we'll have lunch, I might even buy it. (You know who you
are.)
Example: Someone offered to help me work on the 680. I offered cash, beer, food
etc. I cannot in good conscience take the work for free. You WILL get compensated
somehow. Maybe a little of each of the above. (Moot, since the 680 buy looks
like it isn't happening.)
Some things are free and some are not.
Does everyone understand the difference?
Apologies to those who feel their toes have been stepped on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Howdy all.
Here's the scoop. After experiencing what a vac pump failure
can do (especially with the autopilot coupled), I've been working
on a backup for the last 6 months. What I've developed is a
design and prototype for a portable, handheld "artificial
horizon". (see attached image). I now have the prototype working
quite well. The next step is to take the proof-of-concept design
and turn it into a production device. There is at least one
company trying to do this, but they use a PDA and an external
reference. This means lots of cables and several thousand dollars
by the time you're set to go. My device is totally self-contained
(except for external power if desired) and I'm now confident that
I can get it to market for _substantially_ less if I can find
funding to do a large quantity production run.
I'm currently trying to attract investors (or even someone to
purchase the design outright). If anyone has any ideas, I'm open
to suggestions. I am absolutely certain this is a market win, but
I'm too strapped for cash to fund the production run in a large
enough quantity to bring the price down.
Any thoughts?
In case you're wondering, the "alarm" switch causes the unit
to start beeping if the pitch or roll exceeds 30 degrees.
Nice if you're on autopilot in the soup and don't catch a gyro
or pump failure quickly.
Chris Schuermann
C2 Technologies Inc
918-582-3635
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finder's Fee |
Bob,
You mean in the same category as an insurance broker, for instance, belonging
to the group would insure another member but his commission is not compromised
doing so?
Nico
I'm not sure what you are asking here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Yes,you guys are right?It was quite cold here for a few days,but what ya'll
don't understand is that when that happens here it brings on a quandry the
defies all logical thinking.How would ya'll like it if you went up to all
these BEUTIFUL women and had to think to yourselves,is it cold or is she
just glad to see me???? BIG AL
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
Call Associated Aero about the 680 in Oklahoma City. Talk to Dale. Keep your finder's
fee.
I at least have saved the time I was going to spend going up there early to take
video and pictures before I spend 3 days in the alert facility in defense of
our country.
What once seemed like a great list has turned me off totally. Perhaps next time
someone joins the list, you should inform them of the 'rules' before you start
insulting them and their character. It's hard not to step over the line when
you don't know where it is.
Have a nice day.
Apologies as necessary,
-Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan l. wagner <alanlwagner(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finder's Fee |
Dear John,
I hope your recent posting is kept on the commander home page to
introduce "newbies" to what it means to be part of a caring and
interested group of friends working together to help (as well as tease)
each other.
Well said!
Alan
Alan L. Wagner, M.D., F.A.C.S.
email-
awagner(at)statservice.com
On Wednesday, January 16, 2002, at 08:34 PM, john williams wrote:
> Dear Bob,
> Judging from your last response to some of the criticism, I don't
> think you really understand why you have received such a negative
> reaction from the group. I have only been on this "chat group " for
> about 5 months. During that time, I have asked just about every stupid
> commander question there is. The best one had to do with some flaccid
> flaps and "Viagra" as a possible cure. We even did some remedial
> hurricane preparation. At every instance and without hesitation members
> of this group have come forward withinsightfultechnical advice
> relating to the problem. Many have given me their home telephone
> numbers to "call them any time" and I have. You see, the one over
> riding strength of this group that makes it stand out from any other
> owners society thatI have ever been involved withis the wealth of
> experience of its members and their willingness to pass that experience
> on to "newer" commander owners. Compensation has NEVER been an issue.
> Members have taken many rolls of photographs and gather volumes of
> information on commanders that they have run into on the market for
> sale.They are published here as a courtesy to the other members. There
> have been many hours of conversation and advice on every topic from
> maintenance to pilot techniques from individuals with thousands of
> hours of experience and specialized training.Again it goes back to the
> basic fundamental strength of this group: the willingness to share
> Commander knowledge with the group. It all has to do with the almost
> fanatical love we have for these airplanes. If we don't protect and
> promote "them", who will? Life has a funny way of giving back to you
> exactly what you put into it. The members of this group are willing to
> "put in"so much because we get so much back in return. The joy of
> owning and flying one of these wonderful airplanes. I don't know that
> this is something that can be taught to a person. I honestly believe
> that it has to be in you soul.
>
> John Williams
> N519W
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert C. Bullock
> To: Commander Chat
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:15 PM
> Subject: Finder's Fee
>
> Yeah, if I just said 'Hey, ole jim bob has one for sale' then I
> wouldn't expect one. What I would like one for is stuff like going and
> taking photos myself and VIDEO, and encoding said video for
> transmission (Money in software, and hardware to do this), sending it
> over the Internet (So I need a high speed connection=$$$), going and
> getting fiche from the FAA (they are in town, but it takes time and
> effort), and working with the shop who owns it, whom I feel I developed
> a rapport with. Plus whatever else the prospective buyer might want.
>
> This is kind of like the guy whom I offered to split time with in my
> 680 at $100 and hour for his end getting upset about that. $200 an hour
> is still below the operating costs of a 680, and his comment about
> splitting the time was: "What , and pay for your plane for you?"
>
> Advice is on how to fix a car is usually free. Working on thecar for
> you probablywould not be. Telling you what to invest your money is
> free all over the place, try The Motley Fool. Investing it for you
> usually involves a fee. Telling you where a plane is, would be free.
> Doing lots of legwork, producing digital video, taking digital pics,
> long distance phone calls to work with you, copying and faxing logs or
> portions thereof, going to the FAA to get fiche, etc etc. that is
> beyond what I would do out of the goodness of my heart. So, it ain't
> free.
>
> There are very few instances where you can make money by giving advice.
>
> However, if you are coming to OKC, then you will get introduced around,
> see the 680 for yourself, and we'll have lunch, I might even buy it.
> (You know who you are.)
>
> Example: Someone offered to help me work on the 680. I offered cash,
> beer, food etc. I cannot in good conscience take the work for free. You
> WILL get compensated somehow. Maybe a little of each of the above.
> (Moot, since the 680 buy looks like it isn't happening.)
>
> Some things are free and some are not.
>
> Does everyone understand the difference?
>
> Apologies to those who feel their toes have been stepped on.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Archives and update |
>Chris,
>Do we keep archives? If not lets keep all of our replies to Mr.
>Alston in one location and then add them to the website
>especially the insurance related responses.
>Milt
Milt,
I havn't kept any archives to date (sadly - there's been some
great disussion). Its a great idea though. If anyone happens
to have saved various threads (such as insurance, model discussions,
etc) I'd be happy to make them available somehow via the web site.
Sorry I havn't got the new COTM up. I've been putting in about
20 hours/day trying to keep the wheels on the business and the
web site has taken a lower priority than putting food on the
table. I think I should have put up a porn site instead of a
Commander site. I hear that makes better money :-)
Chris
PS: MILT: got the mail today - THANKS!
PPS: kids! Play good! No flame wars allowed!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/16/02 5:52:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> Howdy all.
> Here's the scoop. After experiencing what a vac pump failure
> can do (especially with the autopilot coupled), I've been working
> on a backup for the last 6 months. What I've developed is a
> design and prototype for a portable, handheld "artificial
> horizon". (see attached image).
>
> HI KIDS
Timing is everything, as your fearless leader, I have been asked by the FAA
to comment on the vacuum
> failure problem, perceived or real, (Cessna 335 accident) on multi engine
> airplanes. I have been trying to come up with an appropriate reply. I
> feel that in a multi engine airplane, alternately starting the engines each
> flight and paying attention the vacuum gauge should do the trick. Your
> thoughts?? Thanks.......jb
>
> PS sounds like Chris has a great fix!!.......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: You're Welcome |
Oh Well :(
I'm sorry. The passion for the machine, and it's perpetuation, was not there.
I spent 2 hours at Yoda's to get a clamp off of a nosegear for my 500A. It works
without it but it is supposed to be there. So, I did it. It is passion....
and if it is bad then I'm sorry.
bilbo
--- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:24 PM
Subject: You're Welcome
Call Associated Aero about the 680 in Oklahoma City. Talk to Dale. Keep your
finder's fee.
I at least have saved the time I was going to spend going up there early to take
video and pictures before I spend 3 days in the alert facility in defense
of our country.
What once seemed like a great list has turned me off totally. Perhaps next time
someone joins the list, you should inform them of the 'rules' before you start
insulting them and their character. It's hard not to step over the line when
you don't know where it is.
Have a nice day.
Apologies as necessary,
-Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finder's Fee |
No, not for free, but a lot of legwork was going to be done, MAYBE to make a few
bucks. Most likely, not. Now, it's not going to be done at all, and I imagine
the 680 will be parted out.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Robert Bullock ; 'Commander Chat'
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Finder's Fee
Well, when I read the thread in which your feet were held to the fire for asking
a finder's fee, it seems to me as if you are offering a legitimate business
service for a fee. Most members feel that you were out of line, me included,
but I now have my doubts about my position on this after I read how much work
you put into the deal.
So, in my email I asked whether you would equate the services you offer to that
of an insurance broker who would offer his services to the group, but surely
not for free. Sorry I wasn't clear on the subject.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Nico van Niekerk
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Finder's Fee
Bob,
You mean in the same category as an insurance broker, for instance, belonging
to the group would insure another member but his commission is not compromised
doing so?
Nico
I'm not sure what you are asking here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
NOT BLODDY LIKELY.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: res00rbl
To: 'N414C' ; 'Robert Bullock' ; 'Commander Chat'
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
Anyone who's been on this list for awhile probably was a little taken
aback my Mr. Bullock's offer. This is such a passion for the majority on the
site that the thought of profiting off of the consideration, or buying, of
an aircraft (when that is not one's occupation) is quite aways out in left field.
Jim Jorgensen (Seattle)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
Thanks for the positive vote. More likely, the outcome is I do a lot of work and
get nothing for it. Perhaps I make a few hundred bucks for a few days' or weeks
work.
I think my last note made my intentions clear. It seems this list certainly does
span the range of personality types doesn't it?
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
I will be happy to do legwork for it, for a finder's
>fee. Copying logbooks, taking photos, video, working arrangements as
>nescessary.
Robert's request for a "finder's fee" has brought a bit of "reaction" raining
down upon him.
While the idea of a finder's fee is not popular with this group, do take a look
at what he was really offering: To be on-site and do some actual work.
Perhaps the term "finder's fee" was not the best to use (reminds us of aircraft
brokers -- and most buyers hate brokers -- until they're aircraft sellers).
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld EFIS |
My first 2 cents worth would be to use a different type of switch, perhaps a
flush mounted Push On / Push Off type.
I just thinking of my wavering hand in turbulence might bump into the toggle
type of switch.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 12:34
Subject: handheld EFIS
> Howdy all.
> Here's the scoop. After experiencing what a vac pump failure
> can do (especially with the autopilot coupled), I've been working
> on a backup for the last 6 months. What I've developed is a
> design and prototype for a portable, handheld "artificial
> horizon". (see attached image). I now have the prototype working
> quite well. The next step is to take the proof-of-concept design
> and turn it into a production device. There is at least one
> company trying to do this, but they use a PDA and an external
> reference. This means lots of cables and several thousand dollars
> by the time you're set to go. My device is totally self-contained
> (except for external power if desired) and I'm now confident that
> I can get it to market for _substantially_ less if I can find
> funding to do a large quantity production run.
> I'm currently trying to attract investors (or even someone to
> purchase the design outright). If anyone has any ideas, I'm open
> to suggestions. I am absolutely certain this is a market win, but
> I'm too strapped for cash to fund the production run in a large
> enough quantity to bring the price down.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> In case you're wondering, the "alarm" switch causes the unit
> to start beeping if the pitch or roll exceeds 30 degrees.
> Nice if you're on autopilot in the soup and don't catch a gyro
> or pump failure quickly.
>
> Chris Schuermann
> C2 Technologies Inc
> 918-582-3635
----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
That's what makes the world go round.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Cc: Commander Chat
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 17:51
Subject: Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
Thanks for the positive vote. More likely, the outcome is I do a lot of work
and get nothing for it. Perhaps I make a few hundred bucks for a few days' or
weeks work.
I think my last note made my intentions clear. It seems this list certainly does
span the range of personality types doesn't it?
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
I will be happy to do legwork for it, for a finder's
>fee. Copying logbooks, taking photos, video, working arrangements as
>nescessary.
Robert's request for a "finder's fee" has brought a bit of "reaction" raining
down upon him.
While the idea of a finder's fee is not popular with this group, do take a
look at what he was really offering: To be on-site and do some actual work.
Perhaps the term "finder's fee" was not the best to use (reminds us of aircraft
brokers -- and most buyers hate brokers -- until they're aircraft sellers).
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finder's Fee |
>Life has a funny way of giving back to you exactly what you put into it
>John Williams
I think this is one of the best postings I've ever seen!
Thanks John!!!!!!
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld EFIS |
Robert Bullock wrote:
> If it's gonna be certified, whoah, bet that's gonna drive someone
>to baldness and bankruptcy. Non certified, how do you handle the
>liability when some yahoo plows in using one?
At this time I have no intent of pursuing certification. That's
one of many reasons to make it a portable device.
Call me just plain stupid, but I'm going to simply ignore the
liability side of this for the moment. The goal here is to have
_something_ as an attitude backup when the worst happens. Dunno
about the rest of you, but a systems failure while hard IFR
scares the %$&(# out of me! At that time, I wouldn't care if
the gadget that came to my rescue said "TinkerToy(tm)" on it if
it saved my hide. My goal is to get this device manufactured
and to market at a price that is so low it's a "no brainer". I'd
like to think that such a backup would be highly desirable if it
was very functional and didn't cost much more than a tank of gas
for a Commander. That same "yahoo" is certainly going to plow in
without one....why not give him a fighting chance.
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: You're Welcome |
>
> What once seemed like a great list has turned me off totally. Perhaps
> next time someone joins the list, you should inform them of the 'rules'
> before you start insulting them and their character. It's hard not to
> step over the line when you don't know where it is.
>
Robert,
Sorry you've been misunderstood. I believe your heart was in the right
place. Excuse Milt and Big Al, there from the South and don't know any
better than to insult EVERYONE. Give them an inch and they take your
sister. This is why we love them. That and Milt's shirt selection.
Don't take it to heart, just tell them to piss off with a smile and
it'll all be OK.
Barry (gotta go find my sister now) Hancock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finder's Fee |
ZACTLY!!!!!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: john williams
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Finder's Fee
Dear Bob,
Judging from your last response to some of the criticism, I don't think you
really understand why you have received such a negative reaction from the group.
I have only been on this "chat group " for about 5 months. During that time,
I have asked just about every stupid commander question there is. The best one
had to do with some flaccid flaps and "Viagra" as a possible cure. We even
did some remedial hurricane preparation. At every instance and without hesitation
members of this group have come forward with insightful technical advice relating
to the problem. Many have given me their home telephone numbers to "call
them any time" and I have. You see, the one over riding strength of this group
that makes it stand out from any other owners society that I have ever been
involved with is the wealth of experience of its members and their willingness
to pass that experience on to "newer" commander owners. Compensation has NEVER
been an issue. Members have taken many rolls of photographs and gather volumes
of information on commanders that they have run into on the market for sale.They
are published here as a courtesy to the other members. There have been
many hours of conversation and advice on every topic from maintenance to pilot
techniques from individuals with thousands of hours of experience and specialized
training.Again it goes back to the basic fundamental strength of this group:
the willingness to share Commander knowledge with the group. It all has
to do with the almost fanatical love we have for these airplanes. If we don't
protect and promote "them", who will? Life has a funny way of giving back to you
exactly what you put into it. The members of this group are willing to "put
in"so much because we get so much back in return. The joy of owning and flying
one of these wonderful airplanes. I don't know that this is something that can
be taught to a person. I honestly believe that it has to be in you soul.
John Williams
N519W
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert C. Bullock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:15 PM
Subject: Finder's Fee
Yeah, if I just said 'Hey, ole jim bob has one for sale' then I wouldn't expect
one. What I would like one for is stuff like going and taking photos myself
and VIDEO, and encoding said video for transmission (Money in software, and
hardware to do this), sending it over the Internet (So I need a high speed connection=$$$),
going and getting fiche from the FAA (they are in town, but it
takes time and effort), and working with the shop who owns it, whom I feel I developed
a rapport with. Plus whatever else the prospective buyer might want.
This is kind of like the guy whom I offered to split time with in my 680 at
$100 and hour for his end getting upset about that. $200 an hour is still below
the operating costs of a 680, and his comment about splitting the time was:
"What , and pay for your plane for you?"
Advice is on how to fix a car is usually free. Working on the car for you probably
would not be. Telling you what to invest your money is free all over the
place, try The Motley Fool. Investing it for you usually involves a fee. Telling
you where a plane is, would be free. Doing lots of legwork, producing digital
video, taking digital pics, long distance phone calls to work with you,
copying and faxing logs or portions thereof, going to the FAA to get fiche, etc
etc. that is beyond what I would do out of the goodness of my heart. So, it
ain't free.
There are very few instances where you can make money by giving advice.
However, if you are coming to OKC, then you will get introduced around, see
the 680 for yourself, and we'll have lunch, I might even buy it. (You know who
you are.)
Example: Someone offered to help me work on the 680. I offered cash, beer,
food etc. I cannot in good conscience take the work for free. You WILL get compensated
somehow. Maybe a little of each of the above. (Moot, since the 680 buy
looks like it isn't happening.)
Some things are free and some are not.
Does everyone understand the difference?
Apologies to those who feel their toes have been stepped on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: You're Welcome |
If all else fails......................go for the guilt trip.
bilbo
I spend 3 days in the alert facility in defense of our country.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld EFIS |
My 500A has 2 RED lights that indicate low vacuum on the associated engine.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: Fwd: handheld EFIS
In a message dated 1/16/02 5:52:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
writes:
Howdy all.
Here's the scoop. After experiencing what a vac pump failure
can do (especially with the autopilot coupled), I've been working
on a backup for the last 6 months. What I've developed is a
design and prototype for a portable, handheld "artificial
horizon". (see attached image).
HI KIDS
Timing is everything, as your fearless leader, I have been asked by the FAA to
comment on the vacuum
failure problem, perceived or real, (Cessna 335 accident) on multi engine airplanes.
I have been trying to come up with an appropriate reply. I feel that
in a multi engine airplane, alternately starting the engines each flight and
paying attention the vacuum gauge should do the trick. Your thoughts?? Thanks.......jb
PS sounds like Chris has a great fix!!.......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
I appreciate the positive votes. I really don't want to do the legwork now, and
if it makes anyone happy, I bet this 680 ends up in pieces.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld EFIS |
Alternate engine starting/shutdown is a great tool to verify the integrity of the
vacuum pumps, check valves,and plumbing. I 'm not certain, but I think all
of our dual systems have some common plumbing, that if it fails will take out
all air driven gyros.
Dual redundancy is great especially when you verify its integrity at startup but
this has to be coupled with constant partial panel training. I will usually
try to fly 20-30 minutes of needle ball and airspeed on every IFR flight. Another
big help is a GPS with HSI. At slow (1/2 standard rate or less) turns it
makes a great substitute DG.
The other problem is not all twins have dual vacs.
Partial panel,Partial panel,Partial panel, Practice, Practice, Practice.
Milt
----- Original ----- Original ----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:08 PM
Subject: Fwd: handheld EFIS
In a message dated 1/16/02 5:52:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
writes:
Howdy all.
Here's the scoop. After experiencing what a vac pump failure
can do (especially with the autopilot coupled), I've been working
on a backup for the last 6 months. What I've developed is a
design and prototype for a portable, handheld "artificial
horizon". (see attached image).
HI KIDS
Timing is everything, as your fearless leader, I have been asked by the FAA to
comment on the vacuum
failure problem, perceived or real, (Cessna 335 accident) on multi engine airplanes.
I have been trying to come up with an appropriate reply. I feel that
in a multi engine airplane, alternately starting the engines each flight and
paying attention the vacuum gauge should do the trick. Your thoughts?? Thanks.......jb
PS sounds like Chris has a great fix!!.......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Rules, definitions, and what is |
Lets be perfectly clear about this.
The offer was for a FINDERS fee. "Pay me money and I will tell you where it is."
This would then be followed by a service contract. " For more money Ill get photos
and provide data" Then for more I'll invest in software and hardware and send
you photos.
By the way thanks Wing Commander Gordon for all the time you spent giving me the
benefit of your hard earned expertise by way of free advice. Same goes for the
other 20 or so of you who did the same. Im sure you had nothing better to do
with your time.
Thanks Mr. Schuerman for your free use of that multimillion dollar computer and
the HUNDREDS of man-hours you spent programming it and putting up the website
all at no cost to me.
Thanks Capt. Jimbob for the thousands of hours of FREE service and time you give
to making this group possible.
Thank you Sir Barry for spending your time and money to come to the US and sift
through the FAA archives to document our commanders for us at no charge.
Thanks Gary Tillman for sifting through hundreds of fly by night insurers for me
and making a recommendation at no charge.
We do not need a list of rules to live by on this website. Common sense and courtesy
do just fine.
A rule not to send fuzzy porn photos was not needed it should have been apparent
and the poke in the nose received for the infraction was well deserved.
There is a bug in central Mexico called the reduviid bug that lands on humans,
sucks their blood for its own benefit then craps on the wound on its way out,
leaving the person with a horrible infection. That's why I'm mad, because I think
that is what was done to us and this chatlist.
Wing AD $6000
Sump fix $5700
Nice 680E $100,000+
Information to be derived from this Forum....$$Priceless
Finders Fee. Kiss my fuzzy butt!
By the way anyone who would like a copy of the anatomically correct fuzzy critters
I will be happy to forward them at no charge.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Robert,
The term "Finders Fee' in your case was probably the wrong term to use. "Logbook
and AD research Fee" would have been a better, more descriptive term to use,
as it better describes what you were willing to do for a prospective buyer.
This list is made up of many Die-Hard Commander fans that hate to see these grand
old birds slowly rotting away. It hurts all of us to hear of a bird that has
been scrapped or just left to rot. To that end, all of us have been eager to
assist one another to save a Commander from that fate. The swapping of parts,
and sharing any information that would assist someone in restoring one of these
birds comes with no fee. Parts are bought and sold on the list and nobody expects
to get free parts, but like I said, the term "Finders Fee" does raise the
hackles on this list as it suggests that you are trying to sell something that
all of us would freely give.....information on a bird that could reasonably
be restored. If I were interested in buying the 680 you were referring to, I
would gladly pay you to do some long distance legwork, to pay you a "Finders
Fee" so you would tell me where it is located...no thank you.
Jim Crunkleton
Aero Commander 520 N411VV
Aero Commander 560F N423M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert <rlmcclurg(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Come join Aero Commander, an MSN Community |
MSN Communities
You're invited!
Come join Aero Commander.
Description:
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Join now
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Robert wrote you this personal note:
Please feel free to join for the exchange of Aero Commander information. We can
archive our converstions here.
Check it out!
Visit Aero Commander to see what you think.
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If you decide to join after checking it out, please return to this e-mail to Join
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: You're Welcome |
He didn't get it, did he? Jim Jorgensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld EFIS |
Oh yes, that will be 2 cents please...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 12:34
Subject: handheld EFIS
> Howdy all.
> Here's the scoop. After experiencing what a vac pump failure
> can do (especially with the autopilot coupled), I've been working
> on a backup for the last 6 months. What I've developed is a
> design and prototype for a portable, handheld "artificial
> horizon". (see attached image). I now have the prototype working
> quite well. The next step is to take the proof-of-concept design
> and turn it into a production device. There is at least one
> company trying to do this, but they use a PDA and an external
> reference. This means lots of cables and several thousand dollars
> by the time you're set to go. My device is totally self-contained
> (except for external power if desired) and I'm now confident that
> I can get it to market for _substantially_ less if I can find
> funding to do a large quantity production run.
> I'm currently trying to attract investors (or even someone to
> purchase the design outright). If anyone has any ideas, I'm open
> to suggestions. I am absolutely certain this is a market win, but
> I'm too strapped for cash to fund the production run in a large
> enough quantity to bring the price down.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> In case you're wondering, the "alarm" switch causes the unit
> to start beeping if the pitch or roll exceeds 30 degrees.
> Nice if you're on autopilot in the soup and don't catch a gyro
> or pump failure quickly.
>
> Chris Schuermann
> C2 Technologies Inc
> 918-582-3635
----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: You're Welcome |
NOPE
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: res00rbl
To: 'Robert Bullock' ; 'Commander Chat'
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:22 AM
Subject: RE: You're Welcome
He didn't get it, did he? Jim Jorgensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Archives and update |
In a message dated 01/16/02 19:02:46 Pacific Standard Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> I've been putting in about
> 20 hours/day trying to keep the wheels on the business
That leaves 4 hours by my count. Where's the excuse in that?
OK -- Let's make a deal. Next time we get a new member that asks us
something we've just discussed, let's pour on the information and archive it
by collecting the thread, dropping the text into a document and placing it on
the uploads area of the Commander web site.
This will give us the impetus to answer those questions just one more time
with style and our world famous free advice and opinions.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Finder's Fee |
Hi Robert, et al,
Is this 680 serial number 255? N2755L? With Associated Aero Service at
Bethany?
If not, which one is it?
Barry C.
UK Commanderland rep.
"Robert C.
Bullock" To: Commander Chat
om> cc:
Subject: Finder's Fee
16/01/2002 20:15
Yeah, if I just said 'Hey, ole jim bob has one for sale' then I wouldn't
expect one. What I would like one for is stuff like going and taking photos
myself and VIDEO, and encoding said video for transmission (Money in
software, and hardware to do this), sending it over the Internet (So I need
a high speed connection=$$$), going and getting fiche from the FAA (they
are in town, but it takes time and effort), and working with the shop who
owns it, whom I feel I developed a rapport with. Plus whatever else the
prospective buyer might want.
This is kind of like the guy whom I offered to split time with in my 680 at
$100 and hour for his end getting upset about that. $200 an hour is still
below the operating costs of a 680, and his comment about splitting the
time was: "What , and pay for your plane for you?"
Advice is on how to fix a car is usually free. Working on the car for you
probably would not be. Telling you what to invest your money is free all
over the place, try The Motley Fool. Investing it for you usually involves
a fee. Telling you where a plane is, would be free. Doing lots of legwork,
producing digital video, taking digital pics, long distance phone calls to
work with you, copying and faxing logs or portions thereof, going to the
FAA to get fiche, etc etc. that is beyond what I would do out of the
goodness of my heart. So, it ain't free.
There are very few instances where you can make money by giving advice.
However, if you are coming to OKC, then you will get introduced around, see
the 680 for yourself, and we'll have lunch, I might even buy it. (You know
who you are.)
Example: Someone offered to help me work on the 680. I offered cash, beer,
food etc. I cannot in good conscience take the work for free. You WILL get
compensated somehow. Maybe a little of each of the above. (Moot, since the
680 buy looks like it isn't happening.)
Some things are free and some are not.
Does everyone understand the difference?
Apologies to those who feel their toes have been stepped on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lets be perfectly clear about this |
Let's be perfectly clear about this:
You don't know what you're talking about.
Lets be perfectly clear about this.
The offer was for a FINDERS fee. "Pay me money and I will tell you where it is."
This would then be followed by a service contract. " For more money Ill get photos
and provide data" Then for more I'll invest in software and hardware and send
you photos.
This is text is big for a reason, so it will show up better on your WebTV.
ANOTHER explanation for 414C:
1. Why did you narrow your view to look at only the words 'finder's fee' and not
all the other explaining and verbage that went with it that talked about actual
work?
2. "For more money I'll get photos and data". Nowhere did I say this, but I guess
if you can make up stuff, then it supports your argument. Aaah, one of THOSE
people. Never let the facts stand in the way of pontificating or storytelling.
3. "Then I'll invest in software..." Well, you haven't been to my house (Thank
God) so you don't see the room full of hardware and software I've already paid
for to do this sort of work. And I've still yet to show a return on it.
What sort of fantasized argument will you make up next? Or imagined intent? I can't
wait to see your wicked repartee (sic).
Trolling for dollars,
-Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Nose Gear Problem N8485P |
Good Morning:
After review of NTSB reports this am
I noticed N8485P had nose gear problems, which resulted in a nose gear
colapse...
Please advise of the problem...if anyone knows.
The location of the of the gear collapse was Mesa, AZ...
I was asked how I visually verify that my nose gear was down...Simple...
You keep you spinner as shinny as possible, and use it as a mirror.
And by the way, it makes my nose look like a Shrike Conversion...
Seriously,
I'd like a comment on the nose gear issue.
Thanks,
Gary TIllman
Aviation Ins; Brokers of North America
800-228-4283
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rules, definitions, and what is |
ZACTLY
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:54 PM
Subject: Rules, definitions, and what is
Lets be perfectly clear about this.
The offer was for a FINDERS fee. "Pay me money and I will tell you where it is."
This would then be followed by a service contract. " For more money Ill get photos
and provide data" Then for more I'll invest in software and hardware and
send you photos.
By the way thanks Wing Commander Gordon for all the time you spent giving me
the benefit of your hard earned expertise by way of free advice. Same goes for
the other 20 or so of you who did the same. Im sure you had nothing better to
do with your time.
Thanks Mr. Schuerman for your free use of that multimillion dollar computer and
the HUNDREDS of man-hours you spent programming it and putting up the website
all at no cost to me.
Thanks Capt. Jimbob for the thousands of hours of FREE service and time you give
to making this group possible.
Thank you Sir Barry for spending your time and money to come to the US and sift
through the FAA archives to document our commanders for us at no charge.
Thanks Gary Tillman for sifting through hundreds of fly by night insurers for
me and making a recommendation at no charge.
We do not need a list of rules to live by on this website. Common sense and courtesy
do just fine.
A rule not to send fuzzy porn photos was not needed it should have been apparent
and the poke in the nose received for the infraction was well deserved.
There is a bug in central Mexico called the reduviid bug that lands on humans,
sucks their blood for its own benefit then craps on the wound on its way out,
leaving the person with a horrible infection. That's why I'm mad, because I
think that is what was done to us and this chatlist.
Wing AD $6000
Sump fix $5700
Nice 680E $100,000+
Information to be derived from this Forum....$$Priceless
Finders Fee. Kiss my fuzzy butt!
By the way anyone who would like a copy of the anatomically correct fuzzy critters
I will be happy to forward them at no charge.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
To Quote something that Dr. Milt said to me once.
I THINK I'M GOING TO PUKE!!!!
Like most things in life that are free, or good, something, or somebody (
didn't this guy want a contribution to pay pal for use of a quote?) usually
comes along and screws it up for everybody else.
There are still alot of friends on this chat list whom have taken the time to
get to know one another. Make plans to visit and socialize with other
Commander Owners.
And do it because they love the people here, and love the airplanes
represented.
Dr. Milt, his lovely bride, and Big Al are coming up from GPT to FFC for the
weekend. Crunk Sr. and myself will fly over in one of our Commanders and
pick them up for the 5 min ride back to the 2,000' grass stip that is the
Crunk's home.
No, you dont want to fly a 685 Commander into a 2,000' grass stip, it would
be a one way trip. There will be no fee charged. Hell we will even fight
over who gets to pay for the inevitable 300 dollar bar tab at the lounge
where Crunk Sr. will be playing with his live band after supper (if you put
limes in your beer substitute Dinner here).
When I think of all the times that I have pulled out books, qouted specs, and
given A&P advice on this list for free it makes me want to charge this guy
about 500 bucks just for getting to join the chat.
Hey Nico, why don't you send him a bill for the last 3 trips to AFRICA.
Hell you took the time to take pictures of the Commanders there. You offered
to give the contact info to anyone who wanted it. You offered to help with
the paper work of bringing one home.
Why don't you see if this bottom feeder will send you about 5,000 for your
troubles. I don't remember you asking for any money yet??? Maybe you
should. But not to your FRIENDS on this list. Just those who seem to be
desperate to make a profit off of anything, or anyone.
That's my .02 cents worth. Hey while were at it, can anyone reimburse me for
that .02 cents??? I will foreward you a pay pall link.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: You're Welcome |
At least this guy's brief!
----- Original Message -----
From: Bow
To: 'Commander Chat'
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: You're Welcome
NOPE
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: res00rbl
To: 'Robert Bullock' ; 'Commander Chat'
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:22 AM
Subject: RE: You're Welcome
He didn't get it, did he? Jim Jorgensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | And this little jewel: |
Thanks Mr. Schuerman for your free use of that multimillion dollar computer and
the HUNDREDS of man-hours you spent programming it and putting up the website
all at no cost to me.
Ok, no slight to you AT ALL Chris, but let me clarify:
1. Is it really a multimillion computer? OR are these more assumptions by 414C?
(I bet they are.)
Hint: magnify your made-up argument (if it is) for increased effect! The 'Al Sharpton/Johnny
Cochran (sic)' effect. No offense to Chris, but the programming
involved appears minimal. Data collection trouble, etc are under not attack by
me, but if 414C can lock in on one phrase or aspect to support his rantings,
then so can I. Hey, look again: There ain't much 'programmin'' on Chris's site.
Data, photos, yes, programming no. Funny, no Java or CGI etc. that I saw, just
straight HTML.
Again, I'm not knocking you Chris or your site.
2. Anyone ask if I have a website that's free? Yep, I do, and I bet Chris makes
money somewhere in his life. At some point it comes in real handy. I'm not selling
children's organs here pal, lighten up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arizphys(at)aol.com <Arizphys(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose Gear Problem N8485P |
Hi Gary,
I was actually on the field (FFZ) and saw the landing (also listened to the conversation
as the pilot tried to troubleshoot the gear problem before coming in
to land). The gear looked as though it was partially down when the pilot did
several low passes. He did several landings on the mains alone to try to get it
to lock, but was unsuccessful. When he tried to set the nose wheel on the runway
it started to settle back. Apparently something was blocking it from fully
extending. When he finally decided to make it a full stop (after about 45 minutes
of troubleshooting), the gear settled back into the well completely.
I talked with the mechanic who took a look at the nose gear after the landing.
I forget the specific details (but can easily find out for by asking my mechanic
again). I'll get more details for you and let you know the specifics.
By the way, the pilot did a terrific landing considering the circumstances!
Regards,
Kris Huffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
Hey Nico, What's that going to cost us????
JETPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert <rlmcclurg(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Come join Aero Commander, an MSN Community |
MSN Communities
You're invited!
Come join Aero Commander.
Description:
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Join now
http://communities.msn.com/AeroCommander/join?iid=2654622
Robert wrote you this personal note:
Please join, and help keep uptodate. I think this will help the TCFG.
Check it out!
Visit Aero Commander to see what you think.
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If you decide to join after checking it out, please return to this e-mail to Join
so your membership will automatically be approved.
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*Be sure to add this link to your browser favorites so you can find it later.
Join the community and you can:
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Join now
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Learn more about MSN Communities at our Help Page or Contact Us for assistance.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
Hi Robert, et al
The 680 Robert has 'found' (serial 255, N2755L), is actually almost unique.
Well, I suppose it is actually now unique, in that it was built as a Model
560A and converted to a 680. Only one other Commander was so converted,
serial number 281.
Serial 281 was Certificated as a Model 560A on November 19th 1955, as
N2781B, then converted to a Model 680 on November 26th 1956. It was later
exported to Mexico as XB-KEN circa January 1961, but by September 1987,
appears to have been cancelled from their register, reason unknown. I can
only assume it finally succumbed to the ravages of time, and neglect.
Serial 255 was Certificated as a Model 560A on October 14th 1955, as
N2755B, then converted to a Model 680 on January 21st 1957, while owned by
Aeroquip Corporation. When they acquired a Model 680W, which took the marks
N2755B, those of serial 255 were changed to N2755L. Aeroquip owned it for
almost 14 years, and a later owner, James G Ross, also owned it for almost
14 years. So we have a 41 year-old Commander with two owners accounting for
almost 28 of those. The others have averaged about 4 years each. There
doesn't seem to be any recorded accidents, but the belly was repaired by
Southern Ohio Aviation (who Dick Wartinger was with) in November 1958. Was
apparently seized by the US Marshals Service and registered to them in
March last year. Now appears to have been bought by Associated Aero
Service, at Bethany (Wiley Post).
Best Regards to All,
Barry Collman
UK Commanderland rep.
Yes, that is what I said.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk
To: "Commander Chat" | Date: | Jan 17, 2002 |
| From: | Robert McClurg <rlmcclurg(at)hotmail.com> |
I have set up a community at MSN.com that may be helpful. Please join and see
what suggestions you may have. If we keep it organized I think it would help
everyone. Bob
Robert McClurg
Hm 530 626 9000
Cell 530 409 9262
>From: Nico van Niekerk
>To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com, commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: Archives
>Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:52:48 -0800
>
>I have archived all of the email threads since I started with this list dating
back to 4/29/2001. If you guys think that you will use it, I will dump it into
a database and provide for searches to extract pertinent information, such as
insurance, service items, etc.
>I don't want to do it if it is not an issue.
>Thanks
>Nico
>
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Archives and update |
>OK -- Let's make a deal. Next time we get a new member that asks us something
>we've just discussed, let's pour on the information and archive it by collecting
>the thread, dropping the text into a document and placing it on the uploads area
>of the Commander web site.
>WCG
Excellent idea. Any volunteers to do this? If someone will collect
the thread and put it into a file and send it to me, I'll get it online.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: And this little jewel: |
> "Robert C. Bullock" wrote:
>
> Thanks Mr. Schuerman for your free use of that multimillion dollar
> computer and the HUNDREDS of man-hours you spent programming it and
> putting up the website all at no cost to me.
I was just going to delete this and get on with work, but decided
that since the question was posed directly to me via the list that
I had an obligation to at least address the specific points.
> 1. Is it really a multimillion computer? OR are these more assumptions
> by 414C? (I bet they are.)
I do own all of the equipment. None of the computers are individually
worth more than $20,000. I have a custom build vault containing
aprox a dozen server class intel machines. There are 6 Cisco routers
which combine 2 dedicated T1's ($2800/month each). I spent a little
over $100,000 building out the racks, patch panels, power systems,
environmental controls, etc. I have two dedicated employees providing
network and system admin functions.
> There ain't much 'programmin'' on Chris's site. Data, photos, yes,
> programming no. Funny, no Java or CGI etc. that I saw, just straight
> HTML.
That's correct. I have a great distaste for excessive use of web
site "frills". The Commander site is supposed to be helpful,
informative, and interesting while also being easy to use and
non-annoying for modem users. Excessive graphics, silly java crap,
and the like serve no useful purpose. CGI,etc create security flaws.
I also own and operate the entire email system and have written most
of the behind-the-scenes software. I manage the distribution lists
by hand and try to honor requests within an hour of receipt generally.
Over the last eight years, I have probably averaged 50 hours/month
supporting my fellow Commander owners via phone, email, and in
person (often on my own dime). I respond to every request to call
someone I receive. Many times I have traveled to various locations
to inspect, photograph, and evaluate Commanders for people - without
any desire to be paid. I do these things out of a sense of
comradery with the great folks in Commanderland. If you don't
understand why, you'll also not understand why Milt offered a
ride half way across the country to my wife and I. You also
wouldn't understand why Crunk spent two days flying to come pick
me up in Philadelphia and return me to Tulsa....or why Mr Gordon
answers a vast array of Commander questions even though he doesn't
own or fly a Commander....or why Barry travels the world on his
own time and money documenting the history of the Commander...or
many other things....
If the Commander web site, chat lists, and vast support do not
meet your needs and expectations, at least you can be happy that
you didn't have to pay a single cent to find out. As always, I
stand ready to serve and will quickly honor any subscibe/unsubscribe
requests.
Oh, and as far as "making money elsewhere", nope...right now this
is it. I'd be very happy to take on some work to support my
endevors though. If you (or anyone) has any need of software
development or engineering services, please contact me off-list.
Sincerely,
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: And this little jewel: |
It certainly takes a lot to keep the site going, more than I had imagined
anyway.
As soon as the 680FL is in my possession (read cash flow re-established) I
will sign up and gladly send my monitory support.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To: "Commander Chat"
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 07:21
Subject: Re: And this little jewel:
> > "Robert C. Bullock" wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mr. Schuerman for your free use of that multimillion dollar
> > computer and the HUNDREDS of man-hours you spent programming it and
> > putting up the website all at no cost to me.
>
> I was just going to delete this and get on with work, but decided
> that since the question was posed directly to me via the list that
> I had an obligation to at least address the specific points.
>
> > 1. Is it really a multimillion computer? OR are these more assumptions
> > by 414C? (I bet they are.)
>
> I do own all of the equipment. None of the computers are individually
> worth more than $20,000. I have a custom build vault containing
> aprox a dozen server class intel machines. There are 6 Cisco routers
> which combine 2 dedicated T1's ($2800/month each). I spent a little
> over $100,000 building out the racks, patch panels, power systems,
> environmental controls, etc. I have two dedicated employees providing
> network and system admin functions.
>
>
> > There ain't much 'programmin'' on Chris's site. Data, photos, yes,
> > programming no. Funny, no Java or CGI etc. that I saw, just straight
> > HTML.
>
> That's correct. I have a great distaste for excessive use of web
> site "frills". The Commander site is supposed to be helpful,
> informative, and interesting while also being easy to use and
> non-annoying for modem users. Excessive graphics, silly java crap,
> and the like serve no useful purpose. CGI,etc create security flaws.
> I also own and operate the entire email system and have written most
> of the behind-the-scenes software. I manage the distribution lists
> by hand and try to honor requests within an hour of receipt generally.
>
> Over the last eight years, I have probably averaged 50 hours/month
> supporting my fellow Commander owners via phone, email, and in
> person (often on my own dime). I respond to every request to call
> someone I receive. Many times I have traveled to various locations
> to inspect, photograph, and evaluate Commanders for people - without
> any desire to be paid. I do these things out of a sense of
> comradery with the great folks in Commanderland. If you don't
> understand why, you'll also not understand why Milt offered a
> ride half way across the country to my wife and I. You also
> wouldn't understand why Crunk spent two days flying to come pick
> me up in Philadelphia and return me to Tulsa....or why Mr Gordon
> answers a vast array of Commander questions even though he doesn't
> own or fly a Commander....or why Barry travels the world on his
> own time and money documenting the history of the Commander...or
> many other things....
>
> If the Commander web site, chat lists, and vast support do not
> meet your needs and expectations, at least you can be happy that
> you didn't have to pay a single cent to find out. As always, I
> stand ready to serve and will quickly honor any subscibe/unsubscribe
> requests.
>
> Oh, and as far as "making money elsewhere", nope...right now this
> is it. I'd be very happy to take on some work to support my
> endevors though. If you (or anyone) has any need of software
> development or engineering services, please contact me off-list.
>
> Sincerely,
> Chris Schuermann
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: And this little jewel: |
Chris,
Once again, a "hear hear" from the west coasters. I for one know that my
passion for Aero Commanders would not have blossomed and allowed me to
experience the left-seat joys if it were not your selfless pursuit of the
preservation of these aircraft. You are THE MAN!!! If it's in my power, I'll
do my best to send some Silicon Valley business your way.
It also goes without saying that these people always have my eternal
gratitude for the same:
WC Gordon
Morris Kernick
Barry Collman
Captain Jimbob
And a silent thumbs-up to all the RNCP's down south, Gary T. for a great
policy, the crew down under, Nico & his African adventures, and numerous
others, too many to mention. You guys rock.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To: "Commander Chat"
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: And this little jewel:
> > "Robert C. Bullock" wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mr. Schuerman for your free use of that multimillion dollar
> > computer and the HUNDREDS of man-hours you spent programming it and
> > putting up the website all at no cost to me.
>
> I was just going to delete this and get on with work, but decided
> that since the question was posed directly to me via the list that
> I had an obligation to at least address the specific points.
>
> > 1. Is it really a multimillion computer? OR are these more assumptions
> > by 414C? (I bet they are.)
>
> I do own all of the equipment. None of the computers are individually
> worth more than $20,000. I have a custom build vault containing
> aprox a dozen server class intel machines. There are 6 Cisco routers
> which combine 2 dedicated T1's ($2800/month each). I spent a little
> over $100,000 building out the racks, patch panels, power systems,
> environmental controls, etc. I have two dedicated employees providing
> network and system admin functions.
>
>
> > There ain't much 'programmin'' on Chris's site. Data, photos, yes,
> > programming no. Funny, no Java or CGI etc. that I saw, just straight
> > HTML.
>
> That's correct. I have a great distaste for excessive use of web
> site "frills". The Commander site is supposed to be helpful,
> informative, and interesting while also being easy to use and
> non-annoying for modem users. Excessive graphics, silly java crap,
> and the like serve no useful purpose. CGI,etc create security flaws.
> I also own and operate the entire email system and have written most
> of the behind-the-scenes software. I manage the distribution lists
> by hand and try to honor requests within an hour of receipt generally.
>
> Over the last eight years, I have probably averaged 50 hours/month
> supporting my fellow Commander owners via phone, email, and in
> person (often on my own dime). I respond to every request to call
> someone I receive. Many times I have traveled to various locations
> to inspect, photograph, and evaluate Commanders for people - without
> any desire to be paid. I do these things out of a sense of
> comradery with the great folks in Commanderland. If you don't
> understand why, you'll also not understand why Milt offered a
> ride half way across the country to my wife and I. You also
> wouldn't understand why Crunk spent two days flying to come pick
> me up in Philadelphia and return me to Tulsa....or why Mr Gordon
> answers a vast array of Commander questions even though he doesn't
> own or fly a Commander....or why Barry travels the world on his
> own time and money documenting the history of the Commander...or
> many other things....
>
> If the Commander web site, chat lists, and vast support do not
> meet your needs and expectations, at least you can be happy that
> you didn't have to pay a single cent to find out. As always, I
> stand ready to serve and will quickly honor any subscibe/unsubscribe
> requests.
>
> Oh, and as far as "making money elsewhere", nope...right now this
> is it. I'd be very happy to take on some work to support my
> endevors though. If you (or anyone) has any need of software
> development or engineering services, please contact me off-list.
>
> Sincerely,
> Chris Schuermann
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George J. Yundt III <yundt(at)speakeasy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld EFIS |
Chris,
I believe your product would be a lot "hotter" for the IFR SEL market, since
MOST twins do have redundant vacuum and electrical sources, usually with
some form of annunciation of failure and isolation, as well as having a
panel usually large enough to carry either a full dual panel or at least an
abbreviates set of instruments on the right. Additionally, the more modern
panel utilizes an appropriate mix of vacuum (or pressure) as well as
electrical driven instruments. There are several STC kits available for the
Bonanza and other single engine aircraft that provide a standby electrically
driven vacuum pumps powered by the aircraft battery or optionally a
dedicated standby battery. The installed cost is in the neighborhood of
$1,000-$1,500 for these things. So I would suggest that this would be the
price to beat for your product to be successful.
HOWEVER, as a former engineer myself, I AM fascinated by your concept!
Couple of questions: what are you using for your attitude source: fiber
optic gyro, GPS attitude resolution, or piezo-electric accelerometers?
Also, how much time will it take to "align" the attitude from power
activation? Will this be possible if the aircraft is in motion (most
inertial reference sensors require a short alignment period while they are
not disturbed nor in motion)?
A few other suggestions: with electronic digital compasses now being
available for cars for under $30, you may wish to incorporate this feature
into the unit, perhaps displaying a compass rose across the bottom of the
LCD. That way the pilot would be able to do a better job flying the
aircraft with your device. Additionally, there are now "altitude modules"
available in watches (my Seiko), walkie talkies (Motorola Tank-About 320
which also has the digital compass), hand held nav-coms (Yaesu) that do a
pretty good job of resolving to 100 ft increments. Yes, I know, you are
trying to keep it simple and cost effective, but these features would add a
lot more value. I am sure you could get these OEM "modules" pre-designed
for your device.
Lastly, you should review some of the "all-in-one" standby emergency
instruments that are required to be installed in Part 25 jet aircraft for
features, as well as available technology. This may help you find a better,
cheaper way to do it without completely re-inventing the wheel. Check out:
http://www.goodrichavionics.com/docs/gh3000.html which is a very nice
self-contained LCD package that includes a tremendous amount if data, FAR
more than you would want to provide. Also Meggitt (the maker of the Magic
panel now available for the Turbo Commanders) makes a similar unit, (which
is installed as standard in new Falcon Jets) but I could not find a web page
to refer you to.
Good luck with your idea and endeavor!
George Yundt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 2:34 PM
Subject: handheld EFIS
> Howdy all.
> Here's the scoop. After experiencing what a vac pump failure
> can do (especially with the autopilot coupled), I've been working
> on a backup for the last 6 months. What I've developed is a
> design and prototype for a portable, handheld "artificial
> horizon". (see attached image). I now have the prototype working
> quite well. The next step is to take the proof-of-concept design
> and turn it into a production device. There is at least one
> company trying to do this, but they use a PDA and an external
> reference. This means lots of cables and several thousand dollars
> by the time you're set to go. My device is totally self-contained
> (except for external power if desired) and I'm now confident that
> I can get it to market for _substantially_ less if I can find
> funding to do a large quantity production run.
> I'm currently trying to attract investors (or even someone to
> purchase the design outright). If anyone has any ideas, I'm open
> to suggestions. I am absolutely certain this is a market win, but
> I'm too strapped for cash to fund the production run in a large
> enough quantity to bring the price down.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> In case you're wondering, the "alarm" switch causes the unit
> to start beeping if the pitch or roll exceeds 30 degrees.
> Nice if you're on autopilot in the soup and don't catch a gyro
> or pump failure quickly.
>
> Chris Schuermann
> C2 Technologies Inc
> 918-582-3635
----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CmdDave(at)aol.com <CmdDave(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Commander Pilots |
We are looking for pilots with minimum 100 hours Shrike experience.
Dave Weintraub
Commander Northwest Ltd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John D Williams <keyscrusing(at)mindspring.com> |
Gentlemen,
Can we please leave Mr. Bullock alone . I've just read his last postings and he
sounds a bit rabid at the moment. The thought of locking him next to a missile
for three days with all those buttons and switches is a tad scary given the
mood he seems to be in.
I have a real question to ask. Above @ 6000 msl my left engine (G0-480) starts
lose MP at a much faster rate then the right. We've done a compression check and
all is well(all low to mid 70s). My next guess is the carb on that side. I
can only guess that it's not leaning properly at alt. Does anyone know who does
work on these carbs? Any other thoughts of possible causes?
Oh-yea , MILT---when did you get a WEB-TV??
John Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld EFIS |
"George J. Yundt III" wrote:
George, I'm not going to delve into too much of the technology quite
yet as I'm working on a patent
> Also, how much time will it take to "align" the attitude from power
> activation?
The unit instantly "erects" even if powered up in an unusual attitude.
(pretty cool eh? :-)
> with electronic digital compasses now being
> available for cars for under $30, you may wish to incorporate this feature
> into the unit
Already added. Compass readout at the top of the unit.
> Additionally, there are now "altitude modules"
We've actually already developed our own solid state altimeter which
we're using in a telemetry project for RC airplanes. Might be a
future addition to the AH though...
Thanks for the encouragement and thoughts!
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
Hey Nico, That whole thing was for Bob's benefit, not a punch thrown at
you!!
We hope to have about 7 to 10 RNC's at the fly in this summer in S.C. Hope I
get to meet you then!!!
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld EFIS |
WOW Chris that is a great idea!!!
But I wonder how you can possible share that with us for free???
Don't you feel the need to be compensated for the R&D time?? How about that
image you attached, with the computer software that was required? Oh, yeah,
and I almost forgot......That dedicated T-1 line that cost you however many
thousands per month that we all get the use of for FREE!!!!!!!!!
Honestley, I will ask around and see if I can stir up some interest in this
for you..
It's a great idea. Every Commercial Airliner has a 3rd Gyro that will
operate for a minimum of 30 mins free of charge....(PUN INTENDED) from it's
own powersource.
JETPAUL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: You're Welcome |
Nope Jim, I still don't think he's got it yet either.
Let me go now, I have to fly a 4 day trip that will cover most of the country
4 times north and south, but east of the rockies. That way the country will
still need navigators in the military to stand ready watch. At least I am
doing my part to keep the guy employed. I bet he voted for gore, who would
have desolved his sqaudron, and made him take an early out.
PR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H. James McConnell <skipper10(at)peoplepc.com> |
That would be great. I would use it. Jim McConnell
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: Archives
I have archived all of the email threads since I started with this list dating
back to 4/29/2001. If you guys think that you will use it, I will dump it into
a database and provide for searches to extract pertinent information, such
as insurance, service items, etc.
I don't want to do it if it is not an issue.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finder's Fee |
> Yeah, if I just said 'Hey, ole jim bob has one for sale'
>
HEY JB, ARE YOU GOING TO STAND AROUND AND TAKE THIS???
>
>
> HE CALLED YOU OLD!!!!!! AND ALLUDED TO THE FACT THAT TRIPLE 2 MIGHT BE FOR
> SALE??!!!!! SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!! JIM BOB, SAY IT AIN'T SO????
>
> JETPAUL
P.S. What was Jim Bob's last name, I might be related to him???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lets be perfectly clear about this |
In a message dated 1/17/2002 8:44:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
rcbullock(at)home.com writes:
> 3. "Then I'll invest in software..." Well, you haven't been to my house
> (Thank God) so you don't see the room full of hardware and software I've
> already paid for to do this sort of work. And I've still yet to show a
> return on it.
>
Trolling for dollars,
-Robert
I know he did not just admit to "Trolling for dollars", and "Still yet to
show a return???? Well there you go, We should all pay for his unfounded
overindulgences!!!
I have a bunch of that stuff too, It's called toy's at the Reason House.
JetPaul
P.S. Anybody want me to fly to your airport, (at my expense) and take
DIGITAL VIDEO OF YOUR COMMANDER????? I will be happy to do so at no charge.
That way we can start having movies on the Commander of the Month page.
NO REALLY GUY's I MEAN IT. FREE!!!!!! (no wonder I can't make a darn
profit, or even see a return on all this neat gear). But at least I have not
accused a Cardiovascular Emergency Intervention Specialist of using WEB T.V.
Hey Guy's, I do however have some pictures of OilSlick riding a Tri-Cylcle at
my house on New Years Eve!!!! (But Sorry, Those are going to cost you.)
PR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
Hey Nico, What's that going to cost us????
JETPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Robert,YOU are the weakest link!! GOOD BY!!! BIG AL p.s.when you jump on
Chris,you p*#s everyone off not just us RED-NECKS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Nico,
Get it in Chris's hands and let him post it. As the list grows we will be getting
more and more requests for the same information. Man to have all the info from
this list when I was a rookie commander pup would have been immensely helpful.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commandertech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:52 AM
Subject: Archives
I have archived all of the email threads since I started with this list dating
back to 4/29/2001. If you guys think that you will use it, I will dump it into
a database and provide for searches to extract pertinent information, such
as insurance, service items, etc.
I don't want to do it if it is not an issue.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
I know the feeling Nico!!!
I have only owned 1/3 of 411V V for about a month, and only flown it twice,
but if I have to pull it to S.C. behind my Pick Up Truck I will represent a
50 year old Commander at the 50th Reunion!!!! (YEP!! it's a 1952 model
520!!!)
Paul Reason (JetPaul)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MP drop over 6k |
In a message dated 1/17/2002 1:16:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,
keyscrusing(at)mindspring.com writes:
> I have a real question to ask. Above @ 6000 msl my left engine (G0-480)
> starts lose MP at a much faster rate then the right. We've done a
> compression check and all is well(all low to mid 70s). My next guess is the
> carb on that side. I can only guess that it's not leaning properly at alt.
> Does anyone know who does work on these carbs? Any other thoughts of
>
HI JOHN....
Does the airplane require any trim change?? If not it is
probably the gauge. If so, It may be a throttle restriction problem, check
for all open. Probably not the carb, to check, look at the exhaust. If it
is to rich, you can see it. If you think it to lean, (I really doubt it) tri
CAREFULY, SLOWLY, manually leaning the other engine to achieve the same
reading. Good Luck ($5 bucks please).....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <bdogltd(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | New address-DISREGARD! |
FIXED!!!!! I went back and looked at my "preferences" for my new email
program, and found that the messages were NOT being deleted from the
server....therefore my box was FULL. The problem has been remedied so
you can continue to send mail to bdogltd(at)pacbell.net I will have a new
address when we move into the new house but for now this account WILL
work....I hope. :)
Cheers,
Barry
Gang,
My pabell.net address has apparently dried up. For now please send all
my emails to bdogltd(at)hotmail.com. I'll be setting up a new permanent
account soon. If you have sent anything in the last couple of days,
please re-send to the hotmail address.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lets be perfectly clear about this |
Dr. Milt, his wife, and Big Al are comin' to town today and stay the weekend.
I'm goin' to Houston to look at a 560 next saturday, and then to Key West
the followin' weekend to have a look at the Ugly Yellow Commander, and make
some digital video down there. Then I need to get up to Maine and have a
look at a 150 that a guy is offerin' to trade along with some cash for our
520.
After that I have Wed, Thu, Fri, Sat, and Sun. off the first weekend of Feb.
But then my Schedule goes down hill, Only Fri, Sat, and Sun. off the last 3
weekends of the month. But with all that is scheduled up to this point I
really don't see me gettin' out to California this month. I will try to
reserve you some time in March. My bids will close on the 17th at 12 noon,
they are generaly awarded by 18:00 on the 18th. That means I could let you
know on the 19th what days I have off in March.
Now where was I supposed to go, and what am I supposed to do when I get
there?
Just to let you know "I don't know nothin' bout birthin' no babies" But I am
pretty good at airplane's, boats, tractors, motorcycles, racecars,
electicity, avionics, new home construction, demolition, explosives,
plumbing, refinishin' old furniture, layin' carpet, lawn and garden, rock,
brick, and mortar, most all outdoor sports, installin' hard wood floors,
huntin', fishin', campin', rock climbin', finishin' sheet rock, painting' and
drinkin' beer (it's not just for puttin' on corn flakes anymore, you can
pretty much enjoy it any time of the day now!!)
You see, I ain't reel smart(beein' from the south and all)......but I'm reel
good at picking up HEAVY stuff :)
PR.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
Hear, hear Tom, spot on.
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commanderchat-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
; PAULSTRACI(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
I think it is time to drop this thread.
The phraseology was a little off track but that is all.
I believe everybody's intentions was for the good.
Everybody has the right to offer any service to anybody.
Those that feel the service has value will pay and/or negotiate a mutually agreeable
dollar amount.
Put yourself into Roberts position, he (like everybody on this list) drooled
over his first Commander (I know I did over my 500B).
He expended countless hours researching, making spreadsheets and the like.
Then he has the rug pulled out from under him (read insurance) and feels all
his work should be of some value to someone.
So for crying out loud leave the man alone, he is suffering from withdrawal of
"Commander itis".
Since I lost my 500B, I have been drooling over a 680FL but have to get rid of
my wife first who is dragging her feet just to invoke revenge upon me.
Move on, move up and lets all be Commander friends.
Note for Robert:
I have spent years in my research department (read computers and web sites) entertaining
myself with these beautiful machines, stick with it, it will happen
if you want it to it did for me and will do so again.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: JETPAUL(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; PAULSTRACI(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 09:22
Subject: Re: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
To Quote something that Dr. Milt said to me once.
I THINK I'M GOING TO PUKE!!!!
Like most things in life that are free, or good, something, or somebody ( didn't
this guy want a contribution to pay pal for use of a quote?) usually comes
along and screws it up for everybody else.
There are still alot of friends on this chat list whom have taken the time
to get to know one another. Make plans to visit and socialize with other Commander
Owners.
And do it because they love the people here, and love the airplanes represented.
Dr. Milt, his lovely bride, and Big Al are coming up from GPT to FFC for the
weekend. Crunk Sr. and myself will fly over in one of our Commanders and pick
them up for the 5 min ride back to the 2,000' grass stip that is the Crunk's
home.
No, you dont want to fly a 685 Commander into a 2,000' grass stip, it would
be a one way trip. There will be no fee charged. Hell we will even fight over
who gets to pay for the inevitable 300 dollar bar tab at the lounge where Crunk
Sr. will be playing with his live band after supper (if you put limes in your
beer substitute Dinner here).
When I think of all the times that I have pulled out books, qouted specs, and
given A&P advice on this list for free it makes me want to charge this guy
about 500 bucks just for getting to join the chat.
Hey Nico, why don't you send him a bill for the last 3 trips to AFRICA. Hell
you took the time to take pictures of the Commanders there. You offered to
give the contact info to anyone who wanted it. You offered to help with the
paper work of bringing one home.
Why don't you see if this bottom feeder will send you about 5,000 for your
troubles. I don't remember you asking for any money yet??? Maybe you should.
But not to your FRIENDS on this list. Just those who seem to be desperate to
make a profit off of anything, or anyone.
That's my .02 cents worth. Hey while were at it, can anyone reimburse me for
that .02 cents??? I will foreward you a pay pall link.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com said:
>HI KIDS......
> Did everybody get their newsletters?? Also, look for a copy of
>In-Flight USA on an FBO news stand near you. Triple 2 is on the cover and a
>pilot report inside. I haven't seen it in print yet but have had a couple
>of
>call from new Commander guys so I know it is out there.
> I have a short biz trip in triple 2 tomorrow, an appraisal on a Piper
>Warrior in The Dals OR, on the Columbia River. Hope all is well......jb
Jim,
Excellent job in writing this article!
I enjoyed your analogies and creative use of eloquent words!
I know how much time and effort it takes to gather the necessary
information for such an article. (I'm thinking of writing an article on
the HH60 PaveHawk and USAF use for In-Flight as well)
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corona & Riverside airports, California |
I visit Cororna for my $100.00 hamburger, that Commander is for parts the owner
owns another commander and his rebuilding it and has that one for parts, next
week-end I'm goingt to Corona I can get more info about it also are 2 other Commanders
on the ramp and one was sold last month
Andres
apg86(at)netscape.net
Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi guys!
>
>I've just received some slides of Commanders, taken by a non-Commander-buff.
>
>Included, is a shot of a 680FP taken at Corona middle of last year. It's
>unpainted, and without engines & rudder. The guy presumably didn't know where
>the manufacturer's plate is located, so it is entirely anonymous.
>
>Any of you guys local to Corona? Do you know the serial number? I'd sure
>appreciate knowing it!
>
>A
lso, he sent a business card for the "Polishing Guru", Barry Gregory, of
>Riverside airport. This is the guy who has a metal-polishing business. He and
>his son completely hand-polished the metal on his Commander, a Model 520, serial
>29, N19KD, and even put about $10,000 worth of gold-plating on it !! It looks
>absolutely superb. If anyone is ever at Riverside, and can get some pictures for
>me, I'll be really very grateful. It's 50th is coming up in October!!
>
>Thanks chaps!
>
>Barry C.
>UK Commanderland rep.
>
>
--
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the
convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
> Still awaiting your picture(s)
>
I don't plan to take any, but if I do, I will send them to Barry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skydoc07(at)aol.com <Skydoc07(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/17/02 2:00:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> . If you guys think that you will use it,
I would!! Daryl Wilkins (newbie and Bellanca pilot)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Knowledge base |
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> They should ideally be hosted on the same servers that host the website and
> chatlists, so let me know what you want me to do with them.
Nico,
Thank you so much for the offer! What you propose is very very
valuable. I am not quite sure how to host the data, but am
willing to do whatever it takes. It doesn't really even matter
where it's hosted as long as the folks who need the data have
access to it. What are your thoughts? I've got computers and
plenty of bandwidth. Any ideas on how to make the info searchable
or grouped by topic?
Thanks again!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | NEW MEMBER/DREAM MACHINE |
HI KIDS......
Welcome the latest TCFG member, William New. Now for a
question. If you could have any Commander, what would it be?? Mine would be
a nice 690 C (commonly known as the 840) Mine would have long range fuel,
IHAS 8000 with traffic and terrain, a Garmin 530 and, oh yea, dash 10
engines. That should do it! Well, that is what Mr. New flies. He lives in
Wisconsin and flies N840KB for biz and fun.
Welcome William, and Id LOVE to fly with you someday!..........capt
jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | CommanderFlame@? |
Hey Chris,
Maybe we should add one more address to our little group. . . commanderflame(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com?
Good night ALL!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Gang!
Your UK Commanderland rep would like to see a copy too. If anyone can help, I'll
be most grateful.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: RnJThompson(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:10 PM
Subject: JBs Article
Hi all,
Could anyone scan and Email the article on 222 to us upside down mortals here
in Oz . Russell and I would be most grateful.
Regards,
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: NEW MEMBER/DREAM MACHINE |
"Welcome William, and I'd LOVE to fly with you someday!.........."
Wouldn't we all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome aboard William!!!
Barry C.
UK Commanderland rep.
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
19/01/2002 04:53 cc:
Subject: NEW MEMBER/DREAM MACHINE
HI KIDS......
Welcome the latest TCFG member, William New. Now for a
question. If you could have any Commander, what would it be?? Mine would
be
a nice 690 C (commonly known as the 840) Mine would have long range fuel,
IHAS 8000 with traffic and terrain, a Garmin 530 and, oh yea, dash 10
engines. That should do it! Well, that is what Mr. New flies. He lives
in
Wisconsin and flies N840KB for biz and fun.
Welcome William, and Id LOVE to fly with you someday!..........capt
jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SUMPS, ARTICLE |
In a message dated 1/18/2002 5:01:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com writes:
>
>
>
JB,
I, FOR ONE, APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR EFFORT.
JIM FURLONG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | 680: Anyone wanna work on buying it? |
Robert,
Welcome to reality...the thiev'in insurance companies have lost
site of what they are here for!
I have been forced to search for a great deal on a future trade
so eventually I'll have my Commander, even then, our insurance companies
treat us like mindless idiots and decide just how far we can expand our
knowledge.
My training and thought processes far exceed the "land easy and
we'll give you a banana" stage!
Enough insurance bashing ....We in Bethel Island, Ca. have a
proud new Commander owner, Larry Warkol , 500B #N4HG hopefully this will be
the start of a trend here amoung the Island pilots, he has been spotted with
a grin that would out shine the Ceshire Cat!
Robert, you might check with Larry as he had to jump through a
bunch of insurance hoops...He is a new member of this group.
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Bullock [mailto:rcbullock(at)home.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 06:54 PM
To: Commander Chat
Subject: 680: Anyone wanna work on buying it?
Well, since it looks like I won't be buying the 680, anyone want to arrange
to buy it? I will be happy to do legwork for it, for a finder's fee. Copying
logbooks, taking photos, video, working arrangements as nescessary.
Another potential buyer has paid for AD research and a compression check.
No AD's outstanding, and one cylinder was at 70, and the others were 74/80
or better.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corona & Riverside airports, California |
Barry Collman wrote:
> Also, he sent a business card for the "Polishing Guru", Barry Gregory, of
> Riverside airport. This is the guy who has a metal-polishing business. He and
> his son completely hand-polished the metal on his Commander, a Model 520
Thanks for reminding me of that one Barry. I'd REALLY like to
get a high quality pic of that bird for the web site.
Is he a TCFG member JB?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 01/22/02 07:14:43 Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
>
> Your UK Commanderland rep would like to see a copy too. If anyone can help,
> I'll be most grateful.
>
Sir Barry,
I'll be glad to send you my copy after I read it. Just picked it up.
I was going to send it to Capt. Jimbob to have it autographed, but your need
takes precedence.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Everyone,
We have finally completed the network changeover for
everything in the "c2-tech.com" domain. I appologize for
any problems anyone had with undeliverable mail. The domain
now resolves to a new internet address and although this is
something that's supposed to happen transparently, there are
a LOT of nameservers in the world that are not properly
configured. This means that for a while, some folks couldn't
send email because my network appeared to disapear. By the
time you read this, everything _should_ be working fine. If
you get an undeliverable error it's because your service
provider is broken and still using the wrong address for C2.
This should simply fix itself very shortly.
(sorry for the technobabble)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SUMPS, ARTICLE |
JB,
Ditto!
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Corona & Riverside airports, California |
In a message dated 1/19/02 3:02:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
> luded, is a shot of a 680FP taken at Corona middle of last year. It's
> unpainted, and without engines & rudder. The guy presumably didn't know
> where
> the manufacturer's plate is located, so it is entirely anonymous.
>
HI BARRY.......
I have photos of that same airplane. It has a hydraulic camera
door in the belly. It belongs to Jack Chappell of Riverside CA. Jack claims
to have the largest supply of "OLD" Commander parts west of the Mississippi??
he is a nice guy and I have had good luck in my dealings with
him...........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SUMPS, ARTICLE |
In a message dated 1/19/02 5:58:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, Furlong5 writes:
> JB,
>
> I, FOR ONE, APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR EFFORT.
>
> JIM FURLONG
THANKS JIM...........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John D Williams <keyscrusing(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: set of props |
Gentlemen,
Ok-since I started with the "Gentlemen" you know I want something. I'm starting
to look for a set of props for my 560A. The pair I have now "supposedly" were
done two years ago. I can't believe they were actually done. They look like
hell and they're starting to "sling" a small amount of oil from some of the blade
seals. I know what is going to happen if I pull them and send them out for
overhaul. I'll get the phone call that says "throw them away but don't worry
we can get you brand new ones for only 40K!" I would rather not deal with that.
If anyone hears of an overhauled set about to hit the street let me know. I
can have cash to the seller in 24 hrs or less.
PS- I called on the set in the north west. They want 34k for the set. It does
make the AD go away so I guess that's worth something. I was just trying to stay
in the teens. This way I could get her painted this year as well. Trust me
it needs paint! Just ask Milt-that is if his WEB-TV is working today!
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerry Johnson <kerry(at)kvelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CommanderFlame@? |
Speaking of flames; is this Barry????
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame67.html
-----Original Message-----
From: MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com [mailto:MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:06 PM
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: CommanderFlame@?
Hey Chris,
Maybe we should add one more address to our little group. . .
commanderflame(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com?
Good night ALL!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corona & Riverside airports, California |
In a message dated 1/19/02 1:44:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
apg86(at)netscape.net writes:
> that Commander is for parts the owner owns another commander and his
> rebuilding it and has that one for parts, next week-end I'm goingt to
> Corona I can get more info about it also are 2 other Commanders on the ramp
> and one was sold last month
>
Sounds like Jack Chapelle. He's always had a few geared-engine Commanders on
the ramp at Corona.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Corona & Riverside airports, California |
Thanks Capt!
I can see three Commanders on my database with Jack Chappell, but not a
680FP. Does he also have a company name?
Barry C.
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
19/01/2002 18:50 cc:
Subject: Fwd: Corona & Riverside
airports, California
In a message dated 1/19/02 3:02:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
Included, is a shot of a 680FP taken at Corona middle of last year. It's
unpainted, and without engines & rudder. The guy presumably didn't know
where
the manufacturer's plate is located, so it is entirely anonymous.
HI BARRY.......
I have photos of that same airplane. It has a hydraulic
camera door in the belly. It belongs to Jack Chappell of Riverside CA.
Jack claims to have the largest supply of "OLD" Commander parts west of the
Mississippi?? he is a nice guy and I have had good luck in my dealings
with him...........jb
----- Message from Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> on Thu,
To: TCFG - Chat
Subject: Corona & Riverside airports, California
Hi guys!
I've just received some slides of Commanders, taken by a
non-Commander-buff.
Included, is a shot of a 680FP taken at Corona middle of last year. It's
unpainted, and without engines & rudder. The guy presumably didn't know
where
the manufacturer's plate is located, so it is entirely anonymous.
Any of you guys local to Corona? Do you know the serial number? I'd sure
appreciate knowing it!
Also, he sent a business card for the "Polishing Guru", Barry Gregory, of
Riverside airport. This is the guy who has a metal-polishing business. He
and
his son completely hand-polished the metal on his Commander, a Model 520,
serial
29, N19KD, and even put about $10,000 worth of gold-plating on it !! It
looks
absolutely superb. If anyone is ever at Riverside, and can get some
pictures for
me, I'll be really very grateful. It's 50th is coming up in October!!
Thanks chaps!
Barry C.
UK Commanderland rep.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Corona & Riverside airports, California |
HOW ABOUT THIS ONE??
________________________________________________________________________________
To-day's Happy Birthday candidates are:
690B-11455, Certificated January 20th 1978.
Now N206BN with Boone Newspapers, head-quartered in Tuscaloosa, Alabama and
probably flown regularly by Oliver Harrison, who I've had the pleasure to meet
on a few occasions at Downtown Airpark. Happy 24th !!
690C-11729, Certificated January 20th 1983.
Now N67FE, with Furnas Electric Co in Illinois. Happy 19th !!
695A-96084, Certificated January 20th 1984.
Now XC-AA16, with the Procuraduria General in Mexico City (what a surprise, was
formerly in Colombia!). Happy 18th !!
If it's yours too - Happy Birthday!!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John D Williams <keyscrusing(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: set of props |
Gentlemen,
Ok-since I started with the "Gentlemen" you know I want something. I'm starting
to look for a set of props for my 560A. The pair I have now "supposedly" were
done two years ago. I can't believe they were actually done. They look like
hell and they're starting to "sling" a small amount of oil from some of the blade
seals. I know what is going to happen if I pull them and send them out for
overhaul. I'll get the phone call that says "throw them away but don't worry
we can get you brand new ones for only 40K!" I would rather not deal with that.
If anyone hears of an overhauled set about to hit the street let me know. I
can have cash to the seller in 24 hrs or less.
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.....
Harry Merritt has a heater from a 560A. Worked when removed.
He wants $1000...........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | 1st quarterly RNCP flyin |
We had all of 3 & 1/2 airplanes. Mine an Crunk's 2 & 1/2.
Picked up Big Al at PNS Friday afternoon and headed to Peachtree Georgia. Big Al
flew most of the way over the top of a stalled low, never varying more than
50' or 1 dot from altitude and course. Pretty good in an unfamiliar plane with
no reference to ground.
Crunk picked us up and took us to his home in a hangar. What a marvelous place.
Walk out the back of your kitchen and right into 2 aerocommanders.
Donna (his wife) is a really terrific gal. I am glad to report that she is also
not his sister or cousin. Don't know what she sees in him. Met the cat that slept
with Schuerman and promptly locked him out. After collectively (Crunk, Jet
Paul, Big AL, little Crunk, myself, and our brides) downing almost 2 liters
of Makers Mark we headed to the El Toro Mexican restaurant in downtown metropolitan
Senoia (population 25) Georgia, where we consumed several gallons of Margaritas
and quickly wore out our welcome.
Then on to the Wyndham Hotel in Peachtree City where Crunk plays bass for a 60s
band called "The Second Time Around". Fabulous music. A great time was had by
all. Some of us had to stop imbibing early due to flight schedules, but those
who weren't flying the next day partied to the wee hours of the morning. They
will have to tell you of the goings on after we early birds wussed out.
In the AM we were awakened by the smell of maple cured Canadian Bacon and that
nectar of the Gods, good strong Southern coffee. I must say that "Breakfast by
Donna" could be matched by no restaurant.
After breakfast we sat along the edge of Crunk's runway and tried to out BS each
other with airplane stories. Of course Crunk could not be out BSed. Little Crunk
headed out early to fuel, oil and preflight N414C. I am happy to report that
both oil caps were tightly sealed.
The front had not moved since Friday and was indeed building, so Big Al and I loaded
up and headed back to Pensacola. Received a last minute weather brief and
flight advice from Jet Paul. We were in the soup at about 300' and then had
to swim to 12000 to see the sun again. Our route paralleled the front and for
over 2 hours we battled 60-70 knot headwinds as we picked our way through buildups
and thunderstorms.
Our approach into PNS was behind 4 commuter liners and Navy jets, and involved
a good bit of vectoring around some heavy duty storms. As we approached the localizer
we couldn't pickup the ID for the localizer so we ended up with another
10 minutes of vectors for an ASR approach. At first I thought it was equipment
failure but as it turns out it was a brainfart in setting the nav equipment.
Landed in PNS and spent the night at Big Al's. He, amazingly, also has a terrific
wife. Solid line of thunderstorms kept us from making it back to GPT that night.
Quiet evening with Al and the Missus watching football. Back to Gulfport
the next AM through the tail end of the front ending in a VOR to minimums at
Stennis International in Kiln, Mississippi.
Finally got my hangar back as Moe Mills' nose had been installed on his 680FP and
he had picked it up after we had left for Crunks. And that's a weekend in Southern
Commanderland.
Some of Ya'll should join us next time. We might even feed you some Grits and NoName.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | RNCP flyin/news/corvettes |
> N414C wrote:
> Met the cat that slept with Schuerman and promptly locked him out.
You have NO idea how much I wanted to attend!!!! Honestly,
I NEEDED to be there :-)
Can't believe you locked my kitty out. Did Crunk tell you how
we met? I was sound asleep with the door shut - had no idea
there was a cat in the room. I woke just a bit about 2am and
started petting the cat laying on my chest out of habit (that's
where my cat likes to sleep). Took me a moment to realize
"this is NOT my cat!". I opened my eyes and "psycho pussy"
was staring right at my face. :-) HELLO!
BTW, the hand-held-horizon is looking good. Finished the demo
prototype today and have showed it to several people. Probably
take another 60-90 days to get it into production form, but
all the details are now well-proven!
Everyone:
I am selling my two Corvettes to be able to begin bulk purchase
of components, so if anyone is interested, please contact me asap.
- mint 1971 Convertable. Factory 454, auto, red/red/white top
20k orig miles
$25,000
http://www.c2-tech.com/~chris/71Vet/r0100221.jpg
- "new" 2000 C5. Blue w/black leather. All options. Never
left outside, never had top off. (have both tops). 10k miles
$36k. (sticker was $45k + $6k lux/tax/title)
http://www.c2-tech.com/~chris/Newvet/r0100171.jpg
Buy either or both and help me get the AH to market!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | RNCP flyin part II |
Part II of the RNCP flyin will primarily be about Jet Paul who is truly an amazing
and knowledgeable young man. He too has a lovely wife named Tracy whom we
had the pleasure e of spending an evening with at the flyin. Jet is soon to be
featured in an article in the Gulfport paper and as soon as I have this in hand
part II will be published.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for a commander |
Alan is looking for a Commander. Hes never seen one and would like to at least
ride in one . Hes located in Virginia. I think he needs a 680 for hi mission.
Can anyone close buy with a 680 for sale help him out?
alanlwagner(at)mac.com
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NEW MEMBER/DREAM MACHINE |
Welcome Mr. New
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:53 PM
Subject: NEW MEMBER/DREAM MACHINE
> HI KIDS......
>
> Welcome the latest TCFG member, William New. Now for a
> question. If you could have any Commander, what would it be?? Mine would
be
> a nice 690 C (commonly known as the 840) Mine would have long range fuel,
> IHAS 8000 with traffic and terrain, a Garmin 530 and, oh yea, dash 10
> engines. That should do it! Well, that is what Mr. New flies. He lives
in
> Wisconsin and flies N840KB for biz and fun.
> Welcome William, and Id LOVE to fly with you someday!..........capt
> jimbob
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NEW MEMBER/DREAM MACHINE |
Mine would be a nice condition 560F like Crunk's with only basic instruments
and radios.
Milt
> HI KIDS......
>
Now for a
> question. If you could have any Commander, what would it be?? Mine would
be
> a nice 690 C (commonly known as the 840) Mine would have long range fuel,
> IHAS 8000 with traffic and terrain, a Garmin 530 and, oh yea, dash 10
> engines.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hey Gang,
Just to set the record straight you can tell that Milt is a Yankee deep down....normal
people in the south won't sleep with someone who ain't good enough for
the rest of the family....or maybe it's just Milt's good manners not to offend
Chris. :-)
As for 'BS'ing maybe I can sling it out, but Big Al has to know more jokes than
God!
Milt had a clinical reason to be here....he wanted to see, in person, the metamorphous
of JETPAUL consuming No Name! I know Milt saw the occasion...I'm not
certain whether he can remember it!!!!
Everyone needs to ask JETPAUL about his dancing technique!!!
'Oil Slick' did an amazing job of preflighting 414C in heavy rain. He GOT THE
OIL CAPS ON TIGHT! He did , however have a slight problem with the fuel sumps.
Seems he got in the way......you ain't smelled nothing like an avgas soaked,
watersoaked "Oil Slick". Gee, I was afraid to light up a smoke within twenty
feet of him!
Brainfart! You're not kidding me, that was a "Senior Moment"!
And another thing Milt, don't be sending out no more of those "I don't know what
she sees in him" thangs. Hell, I'm on shaky ground as it is and if she reads
that kind of stuff she's liable to bolt, and then what will WE do for breakfast!!!!!
Seriously, one could not ask for more gracious guests than I have been lucky enough
to host. The folks in Commander Land are indeed a "Special Group".
Ya'll need to join us next time.
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CommanderFlame@? |
Actually that's a picture of me with my web TV
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Kerry Johnson <kerry(at)kvelectric.com>
To:
Cc: 'Commander Chat'
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: CommanderFlame@?
> Speaking of flames; is this Barry????
>
> http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame67.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com [mailto:MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:06 PM
> To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Subject: CommanderFlame@?
>
>
> Hey Chris,
>
> Maybe we should add one more address to our little group. . .
> commanderflame(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com?
>
> Good night ALL!
>
> Mark
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a commander |
In a message dated 1/22/02 8:22:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
> Alan is looking for a Commander. Hes never seen one and would like to at
> least ride in one . Hes located in Virginia. I think he needs a 680 for hi
> mission. Can anyone close buy with a 680 for sale help him out?
>
>
There is a great sounding 680 in TAP?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NEW MEMBER/DREAM MACHINE |
In a message dated 1/22/02 8:59:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
> Mine would be a nice condition 560F like Crunk's with only basic instruments
> and radios
That would work just fine for me to!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Milt,
You know it IS an amazing likeness!
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
January 22nd - the Birthday boys:
680-474-144, Certificated January 22nd 1957. Now believed to be in Argentina as
LV-FYT - Happy 45th !!
500A-1274-97, Certificated January 22nd 1963. Now in New Zealand as ZK-DCF with
Soundsair Ltd - Happy 39th !!
690A-11230, Certificated January 22nd 1975. Now in Argentina as LV-LTY with the
Governor of Tucuman Province - Happy 27th !!
690C-11660, Certificated January 22nd 1981. Now N81JN with Ozark Management Inc
in Jefferson City,MO - Happy 21st !!
695A-96025, Certificated January 22nd 1982. Now N9945S with Zuleta Services &
Trading Corp.,Boca Raton,FL - Happy 20th !!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
UK Commanderland rep.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All,
Following to-day's Birthday Cards, I find one has had to be re-directed !!!
Richard Thompson (Fly-In 2001 attendees will NOT forget this fellow!!), has
emailed me to say that ZK-DCF is now actually at Bankstown airport, Sydney,
Australia. It belongs to Bill Hamilton, who will register it in Australia and
the CofA work is being done right now. Bill was the last leader of AOPA in
Australia, so he knows he's made a good choice. We knew before him though!!
Must dash, got to get some drinking practice in. Richard is visiting the UK in
May, so I need to get myself ready (as I said before, Fly-In 2001 attendees will
NOT forget this fellow!!!!!!!!!).
Thanks Richard!!
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/22/02 11:55:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
>
> 680-474-144, Certificated January 22nd 1957. Now believed to be in
> Argentina as
> LV-FYT - Happy 45th !!
>
> 500A-1274-97, Certificated January 22nd 1963. Now in New Zealand as ZK-DCF
> with
> Soundsair Ltd - Happy 39th !!
>
> 690A-11230, Certificated January 22nd 1975. Now in Argentina as LV-LTY with
> the
> Governor of Tucuman Province - Happy 27th !!
>
THOSE COMMANDERS DO GET AROUND!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Ok Boys,I believe the Gauntlet has been flung down.Let the drinking
begin!!!BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SUMPS, ARTICLE |
Hey J.B. I have been gone on a 4 day trip.
I for one have first hand knowledge, and have removed and reinstalled a
perfectly good sump on a 1964 500A. Since the service manual said to inspect
it every 1,000 hours, and replace if corrosion was present, I certified it
corrosion free, and reinstalled it after replacing an electric fuel pump.
The plane in question was only 2800 hours total time, and had been in 135
service basically since new.
But If you want me to give my .02 cents worth to the feds I will be happy to
oblige.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RNCP flyin/news/corvettes |
In a message dated 1/22/2002 11:28:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> http://www.c2-tech.com/~chris/71Vet/r0100221.jpg
Hey Chris, I have a friend who owns CIA Auto's (Colectors and Investment
Auto's) here in North GA. I will let him know about he 71, He probably
won't be interested in the C-5.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/22/2002 12:10:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
crunk12(at)bellsouth.net writes:
> And another thing Milt, don't be sending out no more of those "I don't know
> what she sees in him" thangs. Hell, I'm on shaky ground as it is and if she
> reads that kind of stuff she's liable to bolt, and then what will WE do for
> breakfast!!!!!
>
Just remember....Never pick up chicks in a Laundromat. Hell if they don't
have enough money to buy a washer how are they ever going to support you???
JetPaul
P.S. Crunk Sr. might not like my dancing technique, but I saw more panties
than he did last Friday night!!!! (actually I think he did like my technique,
he just can't bring himself to say it, and NO my wife's are not included in
the count.)
Hey Big Al, don't they say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 01/22/02 17:52:18 Pacific Standard Time, JETPAUL(at)aol.com
writes:
> Just remember....Never pick up chicks in a Laundromat. Hell if they don't
> have enough money to buy a washer how are they ever going to support you???
>
Now that explains what went wrong with my ex wife.
Just as well. She was such a bad housekeeper that every time I went to pee
in the kitchen sink, it was full of dishes.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Keith,
You know there might just be a bit of Redneckism in your family tree!!!
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SUMPS, ARTICLE |
Hey J.B.
I have a prop question. An old guy just asked me if I new anything about a
wooden prop he has. He found it in an old barn. It is stamped "Aircraft
Products Corp. Chicago IL" there are of course some serial numbers and what
not. It also states H.P. 65 L (I am assuming L=left rotation.)
He is a pilot, and the prop has been looked at by other pilots, and they all
think it has never been mounted to an engine.
What's he got??? and what is it worth???
Paul Reason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Gang.Milt and I talked aboot having a photo and video shoot at MBT next
weekend.I'll have access to a bucket truck and we can all pitch in and rent
a 182 for the air shots.Milt has agreed to bring his Commander,I'll have
Lucille,and if Crunk and Paul can bring their two plus whoever else we can
snag we can make one hell of a video.Milt has mentioned camping out or we
can all just get rooms?Any thoughts?Fuel is cheap in this area and rooms are
very reasonable.Crunk's place is excellent but Milt can't set down.My buyer
has not firmly committed so any perspective buyers can get a trial run in
the ole gal also.Let Milt know as I am headed to Tenn.for the weekend and
will be out of socket.BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Cell#850-304-4560 Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Happy Birthday - AND THERE'S ONE OF OURS |
Hi gang!
To-days' Happy Birthday selection:
680-593-230, Certificated January 23rd 1958.
Now N60GS with Gustl Spreng Enterprises Inc., Daytona Beach, FL - Happy 44th !!
680E-859-78, Certificated January 23rd 1960. - HEY - THIS IS ONE OF OURS !!!
Now N680E with Paul Odum/Barry Hancock - go give a her a wash chaps!! - Happy 42nd
!!
500A-1276-99, Certificated January 23rd 1963.
Now N313M with Albert C Hansen, Mojave, CA - Happy 39th !!
680FL-1657-127, Certificated January 23rd 1967.
Last known of as 9Q-CHG with African Air Charter, in Kinshasa, Zaire - Happy 35th
!!
685-12055, Certificated January 23rd 1974.
Now JA5230 with Tohoku Sokuryo (Tohoku Survey Co), in Aomori, Japan - Happy 28th
!!
500S-3176, Certificated January 23rd 1974.
Now VH-ACZ with Airlines of South Australia, in Adelaide, South Australia - Happy
28th !!
690A-11231, Certificated January 23rd 1975.
Now N115AB with Allmand Bros Inc., in Holdrege, NE - Happy 27th !!
I drove down to Fairoaks airfield lunch-time today, as I'd heard that 690A-11265,
the ex-Turkish one, had been rolled out the hangar as N81540. Borrowed a digital
camera from work (mine hasn't arrived yet) and took some shots.
Also there were N425RR (690A-11259); VP-BLK (690C-11672); N83WA (695B-96063 - of
Wal-Mart); S5-CAI (690A-11121); and N980HB (695-95006).
Terrible weather, but worth braving the elements. It's not often I see six Commanders
in one place in the UK!!
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Commander owners survey |
Howdy everyone. I'd consider it a personal favor if you'd
read and respond to this survey. I'm trying to get my
funding together and need some "marketing info" to give to
the non-aviation folks who don't have a clue...
The product is a portable, hand-held artificial horizon.
The goal is to market a simple, inexpensive device which
and serve as a "last chance" backup in event of a gyro or
vacuum pump failure while in IFR conditions. Recently, there
have been several fatal accidents in which a highly-skilled
and current IFR pilot has lost control of the aircraft while
in the soup. Surprisingly (to me anyway) I have found a
numer of accidents caused by dual pump failures in twin-
engined aircraft. Apparently, debris from a failed filter
,hose, or gyro took out both pumps. My goal is to produce
a Palm-pilot(tm) sized device suitable for yoke mount or
attachment to any other usable space which provides a backup
attitude reference. It is not dependant on any other aircraft
system. Although the unit will include a cigarette-lighter
power cord, it has it's own internal batteries in case of
electrical failure. Other features include a magnetic
compass indication and an alarm feature which alerts the pilot
to any exceedance of 30 degrees of bank. (in case a failure
occurs in-route with the autopilot operating which isn't
noticed before the aircraft begins a slow roll).
Prototype design:
http://www.aerocommander.com/Tmp/PAH3.jpg
If the unit was priced at $599, would you purchase
[ ]Yes, immediate interest
[ ]Maybe within 6 months
[ ]Not interested but good idea
[ ]Not interested, bad product idea
I now have a nice, fully functional prototype up and
running. I think this is a highly desirable "might just
save your life" device, but have to take some facts to
the folks who might fund the upfront production costs.
Even if you think it's a bad idea, please respond as I'll
have to show the statistics of the poll.
Thanks for taking the time to respond!
Sincerely,
Chris Schuermann
- your humble Commander web geek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Jet Paul in the local news |
Here is an article that ran in the Biloxi/Gulfport paper Sunday. (Less the Photo)
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander owners survey |
Thanks for the response Nico !
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jet Paul in the local news |
WOW PAUL.......TWO THIMBS UP!!!!
Great article.......hey, guys, he is one of ours!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
Nice article JB. Impressive magazine cover.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave <vinophile(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jet Paul in the local news |
I agree! But will give you THREE THIMBS UP!!!!
--- YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> WOW PAUL.......TWO THIMBS UP!!!!
>
> Great article.......hey, guys, he is one of
> ours!! jb
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeing new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jet Paul in the local news |
What is a Thimb?
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave <vinophile(at)yahoo.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: Jet Paul in the local news
> I agree! But will give you THREE THIMBS UP!!!!
>
>
> --- YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> > WOW PAUL.......TWO THIMBS UP!!!!
> >
> > Great article.......hey, guys, he is one of
> > ours!! jb
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Great stuff seeing new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave <vinophile(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Jet Paul... To Milt |
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Milt,
I think a thimb is a southern expression for a thumb. You see we have all these
fangers but only two thimbs.
Crunk
PS My problem is how does one give three thimbs up when you only have two?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Maybe its a body part of a squak?
In any case Jet Paul deserves 3 of em.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Crunkleton
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 11:04 PM
Subject: Thimbs
Milt,
I think a thimb is a southern expression for a thumb. You see we have all these
fangers but only two thimbs.
Crunk
PS My problem is how does one give three thimbs up when you only have two?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jet Paul in the local news |
You're a doctor and you don't know
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "N414C" <N414C(at)cableone.net>
To: "Dave" ;
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Jet Paul in the local news
> What is a Thimb?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave <vinophile(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Jet Paul in the local news
>
>
> > I agree! But will give you THREE THIMBS UP!!!!
> >
> >
> > --- YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> > > WOW PAUL.......TWO THIMBS UP!!!!
> > >
> > > Great article.......hey, guys, he is one of
> > > ours!! jb
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Great stuff seeing new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> > http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Today's offering:
500B-1155-84, Certificated January 24th 1962
Now N6258X with Remonov & Co Inc., of Edwards, Colorado. - Happy 40th,
especially as I have flown in this bird, with Jerry Rodgers when he owned it
(Nashville to Wiley Post). It has Lycoming TIO-540-J2BD engines, with compact
4-blade props (HC-C4YR-2/FC6660K). I believe it was being offered for sale by
Rick Mueller, during the TCAC event at Scottsdale.
500A-1267-90, Certificated January 24th 1963
Now with the Thai Air Force/Army museum at Lop Buri, marked as '2540'. But -
Happy 39th !!
690A-11233, Certificated January 24th 1975
Now N67TC with Corporate Skyways Inc., of Omaha, Nebraska. But, I believe this
may have been bought here in the UK., and is expected at Fairoaks in the
not-too-distant future. Happy 27th !!
695B-96207, Certificated January 24th 1985
Now N81432 with Kasey & Associates Inc., of Opa Locka, FL - Happy 17th to the
penultimate Commander ever built!!
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)inreach.com> |
Thought you might have these in your files , but here goes...
Livermore, California
560A N382JH serial # 235 needs TLC, parked outside in NW
corner June 1965 looks like dash is removed
560E N224HA serial # 567 winglets, nose cone, & front
door....great shape June 1957 parked outside
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
To: "TCFG - Chat"
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:18 AM
Subject: Birthdays
> Today's offering:
>
> 500B-1155-84, Certificated January 24th 1962
> Now N6258X with Remonov & Co Inc., of Edwards, Colorado. - Happy 40th,
> especially as I have flown in this bird, with Jerry Rodgers when he owned
it
> (Nashville to Wiley Post). It has Lycoming TIO-540-J2BD engines, with
compact
> 4-blade props (HC-C4YR-2/FC6660K). I believe it was being offered for sale
by
> Rick Mueller, during the TCAC event at Scottsdale.
>
> 500A-1267-90, Certificated January 24th 1963
> Now with the Thai Air Force/Army museum at Lop Buri, marked as '2540'.
But -
> Happy 39th !!
>
> 690A-11233, Certificated January 24th 1975
> Now N67TC with Corporate Skyways Inc., of Omaha, Nebraska. But, I believe
this
> may have been bought here in the UK., and is expected at Fairoaks in the
> not-too-distant future. Happy 27th !!
>
> 695B-96207, Certificated January 24th 1985
> Now N81432 with Kasey & Associates Inc., of Opa Locka, FL - Happy 17th to
the
> penultimate Commander ever built!!
>
> Very Best Regards,
>
> Barry C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jet Paul in the local news |
He's a heart Doctor, not a hand surgeon!!
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | JetPaul in the news. |
I was pretty taken aback by the whole newspaper thing. They called me up and
said they had gotten my name from the company, and wanted to do an article
about my welcome aboard speech. It seems that the Owner/Publisher of the Sun
Herald was on one of my flights, and heard my speech.
It just so turns out that he had not flown since Sep. 11, and was on his way
to Ground Zero to do a story for his paper. He said that what I told the pax
that morning was less than inspirational. On his way off the airplane he
thanked me for putting him at ease, and told me where he was going. I wished
him God's speed and protection on his trip, and the rest is history. Printed
History nonetheless now!!
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: JetPaul in the news. |
Can you reprint it in this forum?
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: <JETPAUL(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 06:14
Subject: JetPaul in the news.
> I was pretty taken aback by the whole newspaper thing. They called me up
and
> said they had gotten my name from the company, and wanted to do an article
> about my welcome aboard speech. It seems that the Owner/Publisher of the
Sun
> Herald was on one of my flights, and heard my speech.
>
> It just so turns out that he had not flown since Sep. 11, and was on his
way
> to Ground Zero to do a story for his paper. He said that what I told the
pax
> that morning was less than inspirational. On his way off the airplane he
> thanked me for putting him at ease, and told me where he was going. I
wished
> him God's speed and protection on his trip, and the rest is history.
Printed
> History nonetheless now!!
>
> JetPaul
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All!
This has been 'doing the rounds', so if you've already seen it, apologies:
FEUDALISM:
You have two cows.
Your Landlord takes some of the milk.
FASCISM:
You have two cows.
The Government takes both, hires you to take care of them and sells you the
milk.
COMMUNISM:
You have two cows.
Your neighbors help take care of them and you all share the milk.
TOTALITARIANISM:
You have two cows.
The Government takes them both, denies they ever existed and drafts you into the
Army.
Milk is banned.
CAPITALISM:
You have two cows.
You sell one and buy a bull.
Your herd multiplies and the economy grows.
You sell them and retire on the income.
VENTURE CAPITALISM:
You have two cows.
You sell three of them to your publicly-listed company, using Letters of Credit
opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with
an associated general offer so you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption
for five cows.
The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman
Island company secretly owned by the majority shareholder, who sells the rights
to all seven cows back to your listed company.
The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more.
-----------------------
Now I know where I've been going wrong all these years!!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All!
25th January candidates are:
680-470-140, Certificated January 25th 1957
Now N6101, with Gordon P Bennett, of Buena Vista, PA - Happy 45th !!
560F-1148-37, Certificated January 25th 1962
Now N121DN, with Casino Service Inc., of New York City, NY - Happy 40th, despite
your confiscation in Santo Domingo!
560F-1152-38, Certificated January 25th 1962
Now V2-LEB, with Norman Aviation Ltd., of St Johns, Antigua, Leeward Islands -
Happy 40th !!
500S-1841-33, Certificated January 25th 1969
Now N210HD, with Commander Northwest Ltd., Palmer, AK - Happy 33rd !!
690A-11146, Certificated January 25th 1974
Now N690SG, with Amber Aviation, of Beavercreek, OH (Stephen Greer) - Happy 28th
!!
690B-11370, Certificated January 25th 1977
Now XA-NTC, with Aerotaxis Del Cabo, in Cabo San Luis, Baja California, Mexico
-
Happy 25th !!
That's it!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: JetPaul in the news. |
You know I said "Less than inspirational"
It should have been "No Less than inspirational"
Here you go Tom, Dr. Milt made this download. It should have the story.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Wall <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com> |
Sorry it has taken me so long to join the group. Just to give everyone a quick
introduction my name is Chris Wall, I was part of the World Flight 2000 crew,
mostly the mechanic side of the project but after spending over 300 hours in my
1957 560E I am starting to get decent at flying her.
Long stroy short got my A&P from a community college program down in Houston at
night while going to Rice University during the day studying electrical engineering.
Class was pretty boring and a friend of mine Dan Dominguez and I decided
we wanted to fly around the world. Started looking for planes and I had fallen
in love with an AeroCommander 680E that was donated to the school(Barry I
will try to get a serial number for you, they also have a 520) I read Chris'
reason's not to buy an AeroCommander and decided to do it anyways. Went to Georgia
to look at one for sale it was a real pile of shit and decided it would
take a better man than me to put it back together(Capt Jimbob turned out to be
that man) We found our little Gem sitting in Guthrie OK. A few years of work,
a new instrument panel, a top overhaul (we have no idea how much time is on
the bottom and really don't want to) add 150 gal tank right behind the copilot
seat and off we went to fly around the world. The trip was awesome and scarry
as hell at some points, like having to shut down an engine over the middle
of the Red Sea and landing at a miltary airbase in Egypt. The Pacific is really
big thank god for GPS and on the longest leg of the trip it figures we end
up with from 10 to 35 knots right on the nose from Hawaii to Half Moon Bay just
outside of San Fran. It hurts to see 123kt ground speed 8 hours from the nearest
piece of land. The 560E will get off the ground with 500 gals of gas, two
people and survival equipment it just takes a while. We got back last Dec 15.
Been flying the plane around the country some. There is a nice aerial shot
in the current Pilot's Journal on the table of contents page.
She is now in a mueseum in El Paso, TX. We are still paying off our debt and can't
afford to fly or break her right now. So at least she is well perserved
and waiting for the day that she can get back into the air which will probably
be in about a year.
We have a nice little picture book that tells the story about the trip. It is
for sale on our web page at www.MangoAirways.com and if you can't get the new
fancy web page to work just email me or call at 979-823-2599. Also check out
www.WorldFlight2000.com for some more of the pictures from the trip.
Glad to be part of the email group.
All the Best,
Chris Wall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Welcome to the group Chris...
I had the opportunity to meet you guys at Oshkosh two years ago. I was
there in my tan & blue 680F (parked down in the contemporary classic area
next to runway 18/36). Really enjoyed seeing your plane and following the
reports of your adventure. Hope to see you again.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Wall <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 6:02 PM
Subject: Hello
Sorry it has taken me so long to join the group. Just to give everyone a
quick introduction my name is Chris Wall, I was part of the World Flight
2000 crew, mostly the mechanic side of the project but after spending over
300 hours in my 1957 560E I am starting to get decent at flying her.
Glad to be part of the email group.
All the Best,
Chris Wall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/25/02 6:08:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cwall(at)worldflight2000.com writes:
> We have a nice little picture book that tells the story about the trip. It
> is for sale on our web page at www.MangoAirways.com and if you can't get
> the new fancy web page to work just email me or call at 979-823-2599. Also
> check out www.WorldFlight2000.com for some more of the pictures from the
> trip.
>
HI KIDS.........
I have a copy of the book Chris is talking about and I STRONGLY
encourage you to buy one. If you have ANY interest in Commanders (and you
would not be reading this if you didn't)! You MUST ad it to your library. It
is a small book packed with great color Commander photos and a fun story to
read.
WELCOME TO THE GROUP MY FRIEND!! ......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
Offerings for 26th January, and it's a bumper bundle, are:
520-125, Certificated January 26th 1954
Now N777VM, with Connie Cooper Shepherd, of Tavares,FL - Happy 48th !!
500B-1014-35, Certificated January 26th 1961
Now N411JF, with John Towner's Central Airlines, of Kansas City,KS - Happy 41st
!!
500S-3076, Certificated January 26th 1970
Now N9096N, with Air Carriers Inc., of Bessemer,AL - Happy 32nd !!
681-6038, Certificated January 26th 1970
Now N78CH, with Wrangler Aviation, of Norman,OK - Happy 32nd !!
500S-3115, Certificated January 26th 1972
Now N680SS, with AeroBanc of America Inc., Santa Barabara,CA (Stan Shaw?) -
Happy 30th !!
690-11057, Certificated January 26th 1973
Now C-GWEW, with Conair Aviation, of Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada -
Happy 29th !!
690A-11316, Certificated January 26th 1976
Now N362SH, with Flight-Plan One LLC., of Bay City,MI - Happy 26th !!
690B-11369, Certificated January 26th 1977
Now N369GM, with First Star Inc., (Wilmington,DE) - Happy 25th !!
690B-11529, Certificated January 26th 1979
Now N690JH, with Commercial Aviation Inc., of Kerrville,TX - Happy 23rd !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander owners survey |
Take a Look at the January issue of Professional Pilot. They show a device
very similar to yours using MEMS-type gyros. I am willing to bet that yours
has a very similar internal design, and from the specs and dimensions they
noted, you might find yourself with competition immediately.
I wouldn't sell my Corvettes just yet.
Oh, and of course, the advice is free.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
681-6038, Certificated January 26th 1970
Now N78CH, with Wrangler Aviation, of Norman,OK - Happy 32nd !!
I think I've seen this one down at OUN. They have a shop that works on turbine
Commanders a lot.
Also the owner of my old flight school owns one, but I have no idea of the tail
#.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander owners survey |
'At a boy!!! now you're catchin' on!!
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander owners survey |
And I might even scan it in to PDF format for FREE!
But I think I threw it away.
----- Original Message -----
From: <JETPAUL(at)aol.com>
To: ;
Cc:
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Commander owners survey
>
>
> 'At a boy!!! now you're catchin' on!!
>
> JetPaul
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Today's offering is as follows:
520-47, Certificated January 27th, 1953
Still N4142B, with A C Knutson (dba: AC Rental), of Tioga, ND - Happy 49th !!
500B-1381-137, Certificated January 27th, 1964
Now N6248G, with John Stone (dba: Southwest Assets), of Newcastle, OK - Happy
38th !!
690B-11371, Certificated January 27th, 1977
Now XB-GDS, with Inmobichamp SAdeCV., Leon, Guanajuato, Mexico - Happy 25th !!
Best Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Anybody know anything about Twin Comanches with a miller conversion?
What is a Miller conversion? Speed, climb,etc?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence without
floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the world and
found nothing.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
'commence'?
Full flaps is all you got (I wish they had an STC for spoilers).
I normally use 10 degrees of flaps for takeoff and landing at airports.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:55
Subject: Landing
So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence without
floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the world
and found nothing.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
100 knots on final with full flaps, about 90 over the fence, power to idle just
prior to the flare, and my 680F stops in about 2000 ft with very little braking.
I can get it stopped in about 1500 ft if I get on the brakes.
Randy Dettmer
680F/6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: Landing
So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence without
floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the world
and found nothing.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/28/02 12:12:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
> So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence
> without floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the
> world and found nothing.
> Milt
>
HI MILT.
The problem is to much flap. Try landing with 1/2 the normal
amount and slow down about 5KTS from normal approach, keep the nose up
(Obviously don't stall). Not only will you not float, but the added angle of
attack will shorten the roll out....... I know, I know, just try it,
OK.......jb
PS This also works great with a Mooney....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Well, I know nothing about Twin Commanches, but hey, let's hear some brags about
Commander landings! Just the other day, with only 3kts. wind down the runway,
I went over the fence at 80, dumped the power (full flaps) and heard the stall
warning horn (for the first time ever in 'normal' flight ops) just as the wheels
touched. Jumped on my (brand spanking new) Cleveland brakes and had the
first turnoff, which is only 900 FEET in, made with ease.
Now I have to make sure I never land it in a place I can't get out of!
/J
PS: How come everyone refers to their boats as "she" or "her", but all the aviation
people call their airplanes "it"?
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Dettmer
To: N414C ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Landing
100 knots on final with full flaps, about 90 over the fence, power to idle just
prior to the flare, and my 680F stops in about 2000 ft with very little braking.
I can get it stopped in about 1500 ft if I get on the brakes.
Randy Dettmer
680F/6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: Landing
So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence without
floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the world
and found nothing.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
As long as you are in the ground cushion (in a twin commanche) it won't drop like
a brick when you cut the throttle.
The 500B did not drop when the power was cut like the Piper aircraft do.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Victor C. Rupert ; commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 13:18
Subject: Re: Landing
I always used full flaps on my Twin Comanche and only shut the throttles after
the squeek. Just one of many ways I suppose.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor C. Rupert
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: Fw: Landing
Yes, fly it at the right speed on approach. I've flown many Mooney's and Twin
Comanche's... I never float because I never go too fast on short final.
and YES, FULL FLAPS.
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:55 PM
Subject: Landing
So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence without
floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the world
and found nothing.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
by the by:
Try a little thing called Copernic.
http://www.copernic.com/
It searches multiple search engines at once, and ranks them. (Among other handy
features.) And you'll love it because it's free.
You still may not find what you're looking for, but this little jewel is so much
better than Yahoo, Google, IMHO.
No finder's fee required.
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:55 PM
Subject: Landing
So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence without
floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the world
and found nothing.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
A similar search site is "dogpile.com"
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 14:31
Subject: Re: Landing
by the by:
Try a little thing called Copernic.
http://www.copernic.com/
It searches multiple search engines at once, and ranks them. (Among other handy
features.) And you'll love it because it's free.
You still may not find what you're looking for, but this little jewel is so much
better than Yahoo, Google, IMHO.
No finder's fee required.
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:55 PM
Subject: Landing
So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence without
floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the world
and found nothing.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
Ah, but the Copernic program saves your searches and lets you update them. A handy
feature.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commanderchat-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Landing
A similar search site is "dogpile.com"
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 14:31
Subject: Re: Landing
by the by:
Try a little thing called Copernic.
http://www.copernic.com/
It searches multiple search engines at once, and ranks them. (Among other handy
features.) And you'll love it because it's free.
You still may not find what you're looking for, but this little jewel is so
much better than Yahoo, Google, IMHO.
No finder's fee required.
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:55 PM
Subject: Landing
So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence
without floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the world
and found nothing.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I did not know that, although my drive is filling up on it's own.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 15:03
Subject: Re: Landing
Ah, but the Copernic program saves your searches and lets you update them. A
handy feature.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commanderchat-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Landing
A similar search site is "dogpile.com"
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 14:31
Subject: Re: Landing
by the by:
Try a little thing called Copernic.
http://www.copernic.com/
It searches multiple search engines at once, and ranks them. (Among other
handy features.) And you'll love it because it's free.
You still may not find what you're looking for, but this little jewel is
so much better than Yahoo, Google, IMHO.
No finder's fee required.
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:55 PM
Subject: Landing
So do any of you aviators have any techniques for landing a twin commence
without floating 6000' down the runway? I have used my web TV to search the
world and found nothing.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
Here's the relevent page in Pro Pilot, Chris.
Since yours is handheld, how do you reference 'down'? Or was it just a 'close enough
to down' type deal? Obviously, a panel mount doesn't have that problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
Lots of diverse opinions on how to land a Twin Commanche.
Just bought a 1/3 interest in one to have something to fly when the commander is
in for maintenance. Now I know why I love my Commander. It ain't near as scary
as the commanche.
Now that we know how to land it would be interesting to hear how everyone approaches
instrument approaches. ie: Gear down flaps down and power settings with
airspeeds at various points in the approach.
In the 685 on a precision approach I go to 2800rpm and 24" at or before the IAF.
This usually gets me down to 130 Kts. Between The IAF and 1 mile to Glide slope
intercept I go to 1/2 flaps. This gives me 120 Kts in level flight. At intercept
Its MP of 20" which results in a 500-600fpm descent at 115 Kts which is
slightly better than best single engine climb. The rest depends on seeing the
runway.
Ive had several people suggest using greater power reductions earlier in the approach
and holding the gear up until crossing the marker but Ive found this takes
significant early power reductions to slow the aircraft and then re application
of power to keep speed up and remain stable on the final approach segment.
Any thoughts???
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Actually a panel mount does have that problem if trying to power it up in flight.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 15:33
Subject: Chris's ADI
Here's the relevent page in Pro Pilot, Chris.
Since yours is handheld, how do you reference 'down'? Or was it just a 'close
enough to down' type deal? Obviously, a panel mount doesn't have that problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerry Johnson <kerry(at)kvelectric.com> |
Take a look at this 685! It has had the spar replaced so the nasty AD is
gone and the price is only $185K. Unreal!
http://www.aircraft.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?guid=piholveo&pcid=11470
&etid=1&OHID=1040133&nh=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
I believe the plan is to velcro it to the panel and fire it up on the ground.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commanderchat-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Chris's ADI
Actually a panel mount does have that problem if trying to power it up in flight.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 15:33
Subject: Chris's ADI
Here's the relevent page in Pro Pilot, Chris.
Since yours is handheld, how do you reference 'down'? Or was it just a 'close
enough to down' type deal? Obviously, a panel mount doesn't have that problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
All is not exactly as advertised.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Kerry Johnson <kerry(at)kvelectric.com>
To: 'Commander Chat'
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:15 PM
Subject: 685 Deal
> Take a look at this 685! It has had the spar replaced so the nasty AD is
> gone and the price is only $185K. Unreal!
>
>
http://www.aircraft.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?guid=piholveo&pcid=11470
> &etid=1&OHID=1040133&nh=0
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Tom wrote:
>From what I understood it has an auto erect feature which does not depend on being
>motionless to work, (Chris can clarify this).
SOrry for the delay - I've been out of town since late last week.
You're correct - see previous post.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
From what I understood it has an auto erect feature which does not depend on being
motionless to work, (Chris can clarify this).
He did not say anything when I mentioned that I would keep it stored somewhere
until required and then I would put it over the failed AI gyro.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: N414C
To: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca ; commanderchat-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 16:57
Subject: Re: Chris's ADI
I believe the plan is to velcro it to the panel and fire it up on the ground.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commanderchat-request(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Chris's ADI
Actually a panel mount does have that problem if trying to power it up in flight.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bullock
To: Commander BSChat Chat
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 15:33
Subject: Chris's ADI
Here's the relevent page in Pro Pilot, Chris.
Since yours is handheld, how do you reference 'down'? Or was it just a 'close
enough to down' type deal? Obviously, a panel mount doesn't have that problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Mr RPM Turbocharger System for 500B, 500U, & 500S |
Commanderland,
Dick MacCoon, Mr RPM, is pleased to announce the turbo system for the 500B,
U, & S Twin Commanders.
RPM TURBOCHARGER POWER SYSTEM
$36,780
4 New Turbochargers 4 New Heat Shields 12 New Injectors, Shrouds and
Balance tubes 2 New Scavenge Pumps 2 New Charge Air Inter-coolers
4 SS & Inconel Electric Waste Gates 4 New SS Trumpet Exhaust Systems
4 New Contoured SS Exhaust Overboards 4 New Low Profile SS Exhaust
Shrouds (replace cowl flaps) 2 New Large Capacity Oil Coolers & Aft.
Installa-
tion Kit 12 New SS Turbo Support Brackets 2 New Over Boost Relief
Valves
New Hoses Lines Clamps Ducting & Hardware.
SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS: First five turbocharger packages will be discounted
10% so aircraft can be used for standardization of parts to assure quality
control commonality.
Payment schedule: 1. Position Deposit Next delivery (non refundable start
of order)* $5,000
2. Parts and Manufacturing Ordered
$10,000
3. Turbochargers, Inter-coolers and Oil
Coolers $10,000
4. Kit Assembly Conform all parts to FAA
Approval $5,000
5. Completed Kit Delivery
$6,780
Total $36,780
* A customer may want to reserve a date in nine months when he is
going to overhaul his engines or do an annual. Before production starts on
his order he will be notified he is next in line and his deposit will be
returned if he has changed his mind.
* Each kit is pre-fabricated with detailed photo instructions to
simplify installation, plan on 75 to 120 man-hours.
If you want to save 10% ($3,678.00), please call me. This offer is to Twin
Commander Flight Group members first before being announced to the general
aviation community and is only available on the first 5 units.
I have photos and more information that I can send interested 500 owners.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry W. Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | New email address |
This is a test message for my new email account. Please respond so I
know I have correct address for you and that my email is working
correctly. Also, we're currently moving into the new house. The new
address is listed below.
Cheers,
Barry Hancock
9 Leatherwood Court
Coto de Caza, CA 92679
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <whiteslave2(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good article |
New email address....test.
Cheers,
Barry Hancock
9 Leatherwood Court
Coto de Caza, CA 92679
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Jefferies , YAK UK Ltd <yakuk(at)compuserve.com> |
Morning Barry.
Is this a new tel number for you?
best regards, Mark.
Mark Jefferies for
YAK UK Ltd www.yakuk.co.uk
Lt Gransden Airfield
Sandy, Beds
SG19 3BP England
Tel ## 44 (0)1767 651156 (fax 651157)
Mob ## 44 (0)7785 538317
ICAO locator EGMJ 52'10N 000'10W
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: radialpower(at)cox.net
Cc: Al DeVere ; Peter PFN ; Precision Flight Networks ; Mark Jeffries ; Drew
; YAK Ltd ; Dave Hansen ; Doug Sapp ; Brian Lloyd ; Dan Avery ; Aleta Hancock
; Capt. Jimbob ; Yaklist ; Walt Fricke ; Paul Odum ; Tracy Cracraft ; Gary Tillman
; Jim Goolsby ; Rudy Shepard ; Doug Zeissner ; Rich Tichacek ; yakpilot(at)earthlink.net
; Robert Bullock ; Commander Chat ; Richard.Goode(at)RussianAeros.com
; john williams ; Tricia Hancock ; AIRRAP(at)aol.com ; Tim Prentice ; Keith Gordon
; Hal Morely ; Christina Hong Lee ; Bill Blackwell ; Kim Hancock ; walterfricke(at)yahoo.com
; srg(at)rmiinsurance.com ; Jeff Linebaugh ; Tom Johnson ; Ron Kembla
; list(at)iac36.org ; Don Andrews ; straube(at)ctaz.com ; Maureen McMahaon ; Kevin
Cooksy ; Arn Hancock ; Mike Filucci ; Chris Schuermann ; Terry Calloway ;
Craig Payne ; Sam Sax ; Mark Shelley ; valerie(at)shebleaviation.com ; Pitts1DM(at)aol.com
; Ken Wilhelm ; Removallist698(at)netscape.net ; Skip Slyfield ; Dan Corrigan
; Harry Beutel ; AntonovAH2(at)aol.com ; Frank Haertlein ; Hyflynboy(at)aol.com
; Jim Selby ; Carl Hayes ; Patrick Scofield ; YakL1(at)aol.com ; Russel Stephenson
; Russel Stephenson ; Drew ; Don Crowe ; jatcha(at)rpmmortgage.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:39 AM
Barry Hancock
(949) 300-5510
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | TRUE LAWYER STORY (insurance) |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert C. Bullock <rcbullock(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TRUE LAWYER STORY (insurance) |
FALSE:
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/cigarson.htm
Always do your research. :)
Unless you meant it for pure humor, and it is funny. And you thought my
research services were overpriced...
----- Original Message -----
From: <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:40 AM
Subject: Fwd: Fw: TRUE LAWYER STORY (insurance)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS
Kinda quite out there. I am working on a complete airframe AD list for all
Commander models. This will include a quick reference by model and a "plain
english" description of the action required and if it is a reoccurring AD.
This should be a great help to owners and those looking to buy a commander.
It turns out to be a lot of work!! Chris had the idea and I will be
working with him to format the information to make it useable on the site but
will only be accessible to TCFG members.
I haven't flow in about two weeks now and man have I got the itch. It
is unusually cold here with a trace of snow still on the ground. Triple 2 is
covered in a sheet of ice. I had planed to fly a friend (furlowed Emery
airfreight ex- DC-8 driver) to Spokane, WA this week to look at a dog in a
rescue program, but haven't had even close to good enough weather to go for
many days.
All is OK here, I am fighting a tough personal battel, but I will
trust in God for the answer. hope all is well in Commanderland, love, capt
jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Furlong5(at)aol.com <Furlong5(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/30/2002 10:50:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com writes:
> . I am working on a complete airframe AD list for all
> Commander models.
THANKS JB AND CHRIS --- YOU ARE TOO GOOD TO US.
JIM FURLONG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | res00rbl <res00rbl(at)gte.net> |
Keep your chin up, Jimbob! We love & appreciate you very much!!
Jimbo in Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Hey, that sounds like a great tool for us Commander owners. Thanks very
much...!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 10:38 AM
Subject: AD LISTING
> HI KIDS
>
> Kinda quite out there. I am working on a complete airframe AD list for
all
> Commander models. This will include a quick reference by model and a
"plain
> english" description of the action required and if it is a reoccurring AD.
> This should be a great help to owners and those looking to buy a
commander.
> It turns out to be a lot of work!! Chris had the idea and I will
be
> working with him to format the information to make it useable on the site
but
> will only be accessible to TCFG members.
> I haven't flow in about two weeks now and man have I got the itch.
It
> is unusually cold here with a trace of snow still on the ground. Triple 2
is
> covered in a sheet of ice. I had planed to fly a friend (furlowed Emery
> airfreight ex- DC-8 driver) to Spokane, WA this week to look at a dog in
a
> rescue program, but haven't had even close to good enough weather to go
for
> many days.
> All is OK here, I am fighting a tough personal battel, but I will
> trust in God for the answer. hope all is well in Commanderland, love,
capt
> jimbob
________________________________________________________________________________
I'll give a resounding echo to that !!
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "res00rbl" <res00rbl(at)gte.net>
To: ;
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: AD LISTING
| Keep your chin up, Jimbob! We love & appreciate you very much!!
| Jimbo in Seattle
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | OLD ADs......??? |
HI KIDS.......
Thank all of you for the kind notes, I am humbled. As I am
going through the ADs a few stand out, like 56-02-01 (the first number is the
year it was issued so this is an oldie) it reads in part "Due to the loss of
an augmenter tube in flight"!!!!! Imagine sitting at the corner of 1st and
main when that thing came sailing out of the clouds!!!!!!
How about this little gem, 59-04-01 "Rivets have been inadvertently
omitted at the factory from the rear spars of the vertical and horizontal
stabilizers" OOps!!!
Or this,59-06-01 on ONLY the 500 airframes?? (I thought they were all
the same)?? "Within the next 5 hours ....Inspect each elevator front spar
.........for cracks."
I am learning a lot of stuff I didn't know.....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John D Williams <keyscrusing(at)mindspring.com> |
Hi Guys,
I took a cabin and 5 acres in Tennessee for trade on an airplane. My thought was
that it would make a great get away. The only problem is that I can't "get
away". I don't see this changing in the next year or so. I 'm going to put the
cabin and land up for sale. It's five acres and a very small primitive cabin
right next to the Jackson County Tennessee Airport (1A7) and Cumberland Lake.(More
like a river). Beautiful place. I'll just never get up there. If you know
of anyone that this might be of interest to let me know. The price is $45K.
I've attached a photo of the airport. My property is just off to the right on
that "hill" just beyond the ramp area.
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
About noon today, I had gone home for lunch so this is second hand, an MU-2
was about a mile wet of X-42 Klinger Airport, in Groveland Fl. Apparently
they had a problem getting the fuel out of the tip tanks and the inboards
ran DRY. Both engines QUIT at about 7500 ft. Orlando Approach advised them
there was a glider airport to the south with no mention of Klinger. During
the descent they saw Klinger Airport and landed on the 3700 ft grass runway
and rolled up to the gas pumps like Bob Hoover. The pilot apologized for
piling up the sod. He had slid about 2000ft with the brakes locked up(I
doubt they were the only skid marks). They relocated the fuel from the
offending tanks and blasted off.
AAAHHHHH SSSOOOOOOO.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 01/28/02 15:38:37 Pacific Standard Time,
N414C(at)cableone.net writes:
> In the 685 on a precision approach I go to 2800rpm and 24" at or before the
> IAF. This usually gets me down to 130 Kts. Between The IAF and 1 mile to
> Glide slope intercept I go to 1/2 flaps. This gives me 120 Kts in level
> flight. At intercept Its MP of 20" which results in a 500-600fpm descent at
> 115 Kts which is slightly better than best single engine climb. The rest
> depends on seeing the runway.
Milt,
Good technique. I also like keeping geared engines pwered up when I'm
descending.
Re: Keeping the gear up to the Final Approach Fix. No*. Remember, a
Commander uses gear before flaps. This is opposite of all the other light
twins out there.
(*Unless you're accommodating ATC by accepting a "keep your speed up"
slam-dunk-turn-on one mile from the Final Approach Fix. Then you throw it
all out at the FAF. And don't be that nice when it's low IFR!)
Also, when you transition to jets (I'm buying you one when I win big at Keno)
you'll find the S.O.P. is: approach flaps when maneuvering to the final, next
notch of flaps 3 miles from the FAF, gear a mile from the FAF or 1 dot below
glide slope, full flaps at the FAF / glide slope intercept and down you go.
See? Your Commander technique will transfer to your jet.
I may be prejudiced, but this is yet another reason I like Commanders: they
operate like aircraft on a higher plane.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry W. Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
Does anyone have any experience with Control Vision's Anywhere Map/WX
system? On the surface it seems to be a very good po' boy's MFD...
Cheers,
Barry Hancock
Flying Bdog Enterprises
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anywhere Map/WX |
I have a client who drives Boeing 777's for American Airlines, and he says
they're great. He uses his Anywhere Map in his C310, and will give me a
demonstration when we get together next..(I think he uses it in the triple 7
too...). I'll keep you all informed.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry W. Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net>
To: Yaklist
Cc: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:54 PM
Subject: Anywhere Map/WX
> Does anyone have any experience with Control Vision's Anywhere Map/WX
> system? On the surface it seems to be a very good po' boy's MFD...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Barry Hancock
> Flying Bdog Enterprises
> (949) 300-5510
> radialpower(at)cox.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
Last night -- or more accurately, at 03:18 this morning -- I woke up feeling
really stupid.
I realized that when I responded to Milt's question about flap / gear
extension on an approach that I confused the issue by babbling on about jet
techniques and flap deployment.
Of course, in a Commander, the gear always goes down first as the Vlo is much
much higher than Vfo and you can't get flaps out until the gear is down.
Experienced Commander pilots on this list will realize I had flipped out
momentarily, but I didn't want the members who have not flown a Commander yet
to get the wrong idea about landing gear / flap sequence.
I shall now write "gear before flaps" on the black board 100 times as an act
of contrition.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Tried to tell ya'll how neat the little outfit was!! BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jjleon(at)att.net <Jjleon(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Sighting in Guadalajara |
During my travels I always keep an eye out for
Commanders, derelict or otherwise. Earlier this week
observed HK 3827X on the PGR ramp (read "Los Federales"
in Spanish. Not being able to get directly on the ramp,
or anywhere close, for that matter, I can only assume
that with the Colombian registration and location, it
has been impounded by the Mexican government. I know
this will help Sir Barry's database but might be of use
to someone else.
Juan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Retraction |
CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> I shall now write "gear before flaps" on the black board 100 times as
> an act of contrition.
Bet we can forgive a momentary "brain fart", but we're still awaiting
the picture of you on the tricycle :-)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: READ BEFORE SUNDAY |
WOW!.....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST?? |
HI KIDS...
Well, what model Commander do you think has the most (airframe)
AD notes??, the least??..both answers surprised me....what's your
guess??.....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST?? |
My AC 560, I have no Prop AD, and no Heater AD, Piston pins been done, that
leave lik not much. Only the Bob Weight, the 6000 hour SPAR, which is
almost 3000 hours away, and the fuel pump, "tighten the screws every so
often" AD.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST??
> HI KIDS...
>
> Well, what model Commander do you think has the most
(airframe)
> AD notes??, the least??..both answers surprised me....what's your
> guess??.....jb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry R. <hardcase62(at)yahoo.com> |
i just wanted to say thanks chris for letting me
in the chat! i am not an ac owner but a ac buff. loved
the acs since i was a kid,and made a hobby collecting
anything pertaining to ac. i dont see many old ac
around roanoke va much any more,so i will see what i
can hear here ! you all seem like a bunch of great
guys ! i collect pics of ac ,so if any of you owners
have one to send i will be grate full ! and if ever
any of you guys stop in roanoke,give me a call,maybe
you can come over and taste some of my wifes good
country cooking !! again thanks !
Larry Reece
540-563-2044
p.s thanks again barry c for the help you gave
me on n601jj!!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST?? |
In a message dated 02/01/02 21:33:13 Pacific Standard Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
> Well, what model Commander do you think has the most (airframe)
>
> AD notes??, the least??..both answers surprised me....what's your
> guess??.....
Is the model 700 included in this contest?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: READ BEFORE SUNDAY |
Nico:
thanks for the inspiring story.
If your ever around Rome, Ga...Atlanta area, please give me a call.
I'll buy lunch and show you the Countryside from N811D,
Collemill 500A.
Have a great weekend,
Gary Tillman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS..
All of you turbine guys or long body owners, there is a really cool
lapel pin on ebay. I think they have lots of them, so everybody can have
one. It says Commander 900, but the window configuration is std. picture
window turbine w/ winglets, it is really nice looking, only $6.95 ea......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: thanks chris!!! |
Here my 500B.
Oh yes, Bridget was my dog.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry R." <hardcase62(at)yahoo.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 21:23
Subject: thanks chris!!!
>
>
> i just wanted to say thanks chris for letting me
> in the chat! i am not an ac owner but a ac buff. loved
> the acs since i was a kid,and made a hobby collecting
> anything pertaining to ac. i dont see many old ac
> around roanoke va much any more,so i will see what i
> can hear here ! you all seem like a bunch of great
> guys ! i collect pics of ac ,so if any of you owners
> have one to send i will be grate full ! and if ever
> any of you guys stop in roanoke,give me a call,maybe
> you can come over and taste some of my wifes good
> country cooking !! again thanks !
>
> Larry Reece
> 540-563-2044
>
>
> p.s thanks again barry c for the help you gave
> me on n601jj!!
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Wall <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com> |
http://www.aso.com/ad/58507/
This is the nicest airframe (least corrosion) that I have ever seen of the bathtub
nacelle commanders. I worked on the plane and got it out of Dallas on a ferry
permit to West Houston in 1999 and the guy was a real jerk and pissed everybody
off. I know they want to sell this plane bad and will come down on the
price. Also I have a set of props for the plane that I am looking to sell.
The logs are complete from day 1. Needs a fuel pump and props and she will fly.
But will need a little tender love and care and some money into the AD's that
haven't been done in the last 5 years. Also if you want I can deliver.
Lets save a good airplane from the parts yard.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST?? |
In a message dated 2/1/02 10:21:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
woodlema(at)intrex.net writes:
> no Prop AD,
Wrong, You have only complied with the AD. This question is for airframe
only and the 560 is tied for the second most ADs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Aero Commander Model Plans |
Ebay has the following:
....These building plans are for THE AERO COMMANDER A Twin Engine Executive
Transport...Approx wing span 50"
Some one was looking for a kit or plans a little bit ago. Check it out.
They seem cheap.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sighting in Guadalajara |
Hi Juan!
Many thanks for this information, particularly as "HK-3827X" is a mark I know
nothing about!
I expect your surmise is therefore correct, these are probably false marks, used
on a Commander for illegal operations. Not the first, of course!!
As I've always said, these reports ARE really useful. If anybody gets the chance
to check the maker's plate, this could be really useful, particularly the six
digit number at the foot of the plate, for any Commander built before 1976. This
is the Manufacturer's Aircraft Association plate number. They were dissolved
prior to December 1975. Highest serial numbers I've got these numbers on so far
are 500S, 3262 and 690A, 11327.
Juan, could you identify this Commander as a Turbo?
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jjleon(at)att.net>
To: "Commander Chat"
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:22 PM
Subject: Sighting in Guadalajara
| During my travels I always keep an eye out for
| Commanders, derelict or otherwise. Earlier this week
| observed HK 3827X on the PGR ramp (read "Los Federales"
| in Spanish. Not being able to get directly on the ramp,
| or anywhere close, for that matter, I can only assume
| that with the Colombian registration and location, it
| has been impounded by the Mexican government. I know
| this will help Sir Barry's database but might be of use
| to someone else.
|
| Juan
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Victor C. Rupert <V-Man(at)airmail.net> |
I've put a refundable deposit on an aircraft N160K... It's a 560-F Model. I'm
wondering if anyone knows about this aircraft or the place doing the annual...
Able Air in California. I'm supposed to go on Wednesday and inspect the plane.
One more thing, does anyone have someone that they trust in the Whiteman
airport area to do a prepurchase inspection. (Van Nuys)
I appreciate the help.
Victor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST?? |
OK, my wild guess:
Most: Shrike
Least: straight 500, or maybe the 690-series.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:26 PM
Subject: ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST??
> HI KIDS...
>
> Well, what model Commander do you think has the most
(airframe)
> AD notes??, the least??..both answers surprised me....what's your
> guess??.....jb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
Victor,
Morris Kernick, Commander Services, is in Northern Ca. but is a great
resource of information and has gone everywhere.
He may be able to tell you the life history of N160K from memory.
Here are his phone numbers.
(510) 783-3041
(510) 670-4760 fax
(510) 630-1508 pager
Paul, Barry, and Randy. Go help this guy. He wants to spend money!!! :-)
Good luck on your new purchase.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor C. Rupert [mailto:V-Man(at)airmail.net]
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:40 PM
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: 560-F
I've put a refundable deposit on an aircraft N160K... It's a 560-F Model.
I'm wondering if anyone knows about this aircraft or the place doing the
annual... Able Air in California. I'm supposed to go on Wednesday and
inspect the plane. One more thing, does anyone have someone that they trust
in the Whiteman airport area to do a prepurchase inspection. (Van Nuys)
I appreciate the help.
Victor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST?? |
In a message dated 2/2/02 7:21:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, john(at)vormbaum.com
writes:
> Most: Shrike
> Least: straight 500, or maybe the 690-series.
>
GOOD GUESS!! But no cigar.....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.............
Had a nice little flight tonight. Firs time airborne in a LONG
time! Went to Albany, OR of dinner with a couple that live on our airport.
They fly a cessna 180.. Albany is a pleasant little airport with a special,
paved taxiway to a great Chinese restaurant. You actually taxi over a simi
narrow bridge that crosses a creek to a nice parking area. Took of just
before dark for the 20 minute, 75 mile trip home. Good dinner, good friends,
and a great airplane!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 02/02/02 18:47:53 Pacific Standard Time, V-Man(at)airmail.net
writes:
> I'm supposed to go on Wednesday and inspect the plane. One more thing, does
> anyone have someone that they trust in the Whiteman airport area to do a
> prepurchase inspection. (Van Nuys)
Victor,
I don't know the airplane or Able Air, but I would definitely employ Morris
Kernick of Commander Services in Hayward, California to do your pre-buy. I
don't think there's anyone better qualified to do it and he's just a few
hundred miles northwest of the airplane.
Contact him at 510-783-3028 and find out if he's available to airline down to
Burbank, or, if N160K can be flown up to him.
It will be worth it.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Monk <britmonk(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: thanks chris!!! |
Welcome Larry,
I'm a collector too, we have a few in the group as you will find out.
Try this one, it's called the Model 800. There are still a few pieces of
it around here in Oklahoma City.
Derek Monk
"Larry R." wrote:
>
>
> i just wanted to say thanks chris for letting me
> in the chat! i am not an ac owner but a ac buff. loved
> the acs since i was a kid,and made a hobby collecting
> anything pertaining to ac. i dont see many old ac
> around roanoke va much any more,so i will see what i
> can hear here ! you all seem like a bunch of great
> guys ! i collect pics of ac ,so if any of you owners
> have one to send i will be grate full ! and if ever
> any of you guys stop in roanoke,give me a call,maybe
> you can come over and taste some of my wifes good
> country cooking !! again thanks !
>
> Larry Reece
> 540-563-2044
>
> p.s thanks again barry c for the help you gave
> me on n601jj!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maytag <dmaytag(at)commspeed.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST?? |
Ok, here's my guess:
Most: 680FLP
Least: 695B
Could this be the start of a new feature? Quiz Question of the month?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: Fwd: ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST??
In a message dated 2/2/02 7:21:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, john(at)vormbaum.com
writes:
Most: Shrike
Least: straight 500, or maybe the 690-series.
GOOD GUESS!! But no cigar.....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: thanks chris!!! /ADs |
In a message dated 02/03/02 04:18:35 Pacific Standard Time,
britmonk(at)swbell.net writes:
> Try this one, it's called the Model 800. There are still a few pieces of it
> around here in Oklahoma City.
Oooohhh! Oooooohh!! I've got it!
The model 800 has the fewest ADs.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Oz Commanders found! |
Greetings to all in Commanderland and hi Sir Barry!
Over the recent past I have been scouring Oz for long lost Commanders and a
fruitful, frustrating and fascinating journey it has been!
Suffice to say that I eventually did find some, albeit unexpectedly and
which were well and truly thought extinct. (Sure had my cardboard camera
handy for Sir Barry... I reckon they probably still deserve a birthday
notice!)
And just to make life interesting of course...I am no closer to the ultimate
fate or location of others.
Let me bring you their story:
Starting today with 500A VH-AGA s/n 1253-77 (Arriving as the first 500A for
Oz back in 1962)...
In the good old days of 1978 I had the great opportunity to be introduced to
'Alpha Golf Alpha' as it emerged from an overhaul and paint job (three tone
blue in the final Shrike style) at Essendon Airport in Melbourne having
recently been sold by Adastra Aerial Surveys. Subsequently its new owner Jim
Richardson (Scapela Bianca P/L) very generously mentored me with several
left-hand seat sorties in exchange for some old fashioned exterior cleaning
from time to time. Jim operated the aircraft on some relaxed charter
operations until he finally had to quit and AGA moved on to operators in
Canberra (Fairbairn Air Charter P/L) and New South Wales (Bathurst Aero
Club).
On 1 Dec 1984 the aircraft was being used to transport equipment for members
of the Bathurst Aero Club, who were to carry out training in the Commander
at Goulburn Airport. As the pilot was undergoing formation flying training,
it was decided that he would lead a formation of two aircraft for the
flight. A briefing on the procedures to be followed was carried out. During
the flight the pilot of the second aircraft began to suspect the accuracy of
his aircraft's airspeed indicator and requested that it be checked against
that of AGA as they joined the circuit. The pilot of AGA extended the
landing gear and flew the initial leg of the circuit at an indicated
airspeed of 96 knots. At the end of this leg the pilot turned sharply to the
left, the nose dropped slightly and the aircraft flicked into a steep right
turn. AGA then assumed a steep nose down attitude, however the pilot was
able to level the wings and raise the nose to the level attitude before
impact. The impact occurred at a very high rate of sink (as seen by the
condition of the nose section in the attachment!).
The pilot had not previously practised steep turns at relatively slow speed
and was not aware of the stalling speed in the given configuration and
attitude. The pilot was subsequently unable to recall the reason for
attempting a steeper than normal turn. When the aircraft stalled the pilot
was unable to effect a full recovery in the height available before the
impact with the ground.
Unfortunately this spelt the end for AGA. The wreckage was recovered as an
insurance write-off and then stored in the back of a hangar at Goulburn
Airport where it remained until late 1989. At this time it was dismantled
and moved to Bankstown Airport by its new owners Helimuster P/L. Helimuster
were operating another 500A VH-IOE s/n 985-34 at the time and were chasing
spares. At this time all non-recoverable sections were scrapped.
The parts were then moved to Warnervale Airport in late 1993 and finally
purchased by Dennis Beahan Aircraft P/L and moved by container to Roma
Airport, Queensland during April 2001.
Attached photos show the dwindling twilight remains of AGA baking in the
Roma sun on 17 December 2001.
Please join me in toasting the old girl!
Cheers from Oz!
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Haag <chrishaag.foto(at)freesurf.ch> |
Hi Commander folks!
Finally I made it to Commander land, thanks Chris for letting me on, and
thanks Sir Barry for convincing me! - Just a brief introduction here - I am
living on mainland Europe, on what may be called the last remaining island
within Europe, the place is called Switzerland... My home town is Berne and
my love for airplanes started right here when I was a little boy watching a
Lear 23 or Hawker 125 taking-off from our short runway. Man, was I
impressed! Little Chris found out that this was something called corporate
jet. I was then hanging around the airport waiting for more and soon I got
acquainted with the Aero Commander, which in those days was quite a normal
occurence. I loved that airplane right from the start, with its low slung
fuselage, and it was so easy to board, compared to other twins. Soon I was
snapping away with an old box camera everything with wings, props or jet
engines. As time passed, I bought a better camera, then a sophisticated
reflex, then telelenses etc. By now, the photo collection is bursting, with
several 10,000 of subjects, mostly trannies and black&white negs.
Some time ago, I decided there must be something more to collecting photos,
magazines and aviation books. I took-up line-drawing and to start I chose
the Twin Commander line, as this seemed an ideal airplane to practise (when
looking at how the type developped over all those years). I am now in the
process of refining and expanding the drawings, with the aim of using them
for The Aero Commander book that is in the pipeline. - So, from time to time
I may have to launch a 'cry for help', when stumbling onto some problem of
technical nature, such as dimensions of windows, nacelles, panels, or
whatever there may be. If any of you out there in CommanderLand would be
able to assist, that would be much appreciated. - I also hope to be able to
attend one of your Commander Fly-Ins sometime in the future. Thank you all
for taking me on!!
Kind regards
(Swiss)Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ADs..WHAT MODEL HAS THE MOST?? LEAST?? |
In a message dated 2/3/02 5:47:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com writes:
> LUCILLE
YEP, You are correct. The 560A & the straight 680, have the most at 15 each,
the straight 560 was a close second with 14. (airframe only) The least is the
500S, Shrike and the 685 tied a 10 each! I was really surprised at both
answers.
But let not your heart be troubled, a Cherokee was about 50 ADs and
Chris says an Aztec is even worse. It is amazing that these old gals have
this few (if not major) ADs, Ted made um goooood!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: thanks chris!!! /ADs |
CHEAT !!!!!!!!!!!!
Only kidding!
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: thanks chris!!! /ADs
In a message dated 02/03/02 04:18:35 Pacific Standard Time, britmonk(at)swbell.net
writes:
Try this one, it's called the Model 800. There are still a few pieces of it
around here in Oklahoma City.
Oooohhh! Oooooohh!! I've got it!
The model 800 has the fewest ADs.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
WELCOME CHRIS. Just say the word, we will help where we can.jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS..
You have, I am sure, heard that K mart has filed for bankruptcy.
Remember in one of Barry's recent articles that WALMART was a big user of
Twin Commanders?? Hum, I wonder..jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Hey, Sam Walton was no dum-dum.
This is a perfect example of why there's no airplane called the Twin
K-mannder.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 7:42 PM
Subject: "K" MART
> HI KIDS..
>
> You have, I am sure, heard that K mart has filed for
bankruptcy.
> Remember in one of Barry's recent articles that WALMART was a big user of
> Twin Commanders?? Hum, I wonder..jb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS....
Sorry to report that a Commander has crashed shortly after TO
from the Pierce Co. airport (Seattle) No fatalities but one injured.
Information is sketchy but it is reported that the L engine quite on TO.
A friend of mine saw the news story and said it was a "fat nacelle"
airplane. It went into the trees.
I will keep you posted as information is available...capt jimbob
PS Wonder if the guy got some of that "soft training" we were all talking
about??jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: COMMANDER CRASH |
Hi All,
A search for news on the web has picked up a few stories on this, but they
refer to it being a "twin-engine Cessna", on take off from Thun Field, near
Puyallup (also known as Pierce County Airport), on Saturday.
However, a photo on one report shows a bathtub-nacelle Commander in amongst
trees. It's white, with blue trim, but no 'N' number is visible. It appears
to be intact, but there must be a lot of damage. Confirmed pilot OK,
passenger stretchered with possible back or neck injuries.
Will advise further when the FAA's "Preliminary Accident and Incident Data"
web-site has been up-dated later today.
Best Regards,
Barry C.
UK CommanderLand Rep.
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
04/02/2002 05:31 cc:
Subject: COMMANDER CRASH
HI KIDS....
Sorry to report that a Commander has crashed shortly after TO
from the Pierce Co. airport (Seattle) No fatalities but one injured.
Information is sketchy but it is reported that the L engine quite on TO.
A friend of mine saw the news story and said it was a "fat nacelle"
airplane. It went into the trees.
I will keep you posted as information is available...capt jimbob
PS Wonder if the guy got some of that "soft training" we were all talking
about??jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Way to good John!!
> Hey, Sam Walton was no dum-dum.
>
> This is a perfect example of why there's no airplane called the Twin
> K-mannder.
>
> /J
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 7:42 PM
> Subject: "K" MART
>
>
>> HI KIDS..
>>
>> You have, I am sure, heard that K mart has filed for
> bankruptcy.
>> Remember in one of Barry's recent articles that WALMART was a big user of
>> Twin Commanders?? Hum, I wonder..jb
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Please unsubscribe me from the flight group E mail.
I will keep in touch through our Twin Commander GM Jeff Cousins.
Thanks,
Jim Matheson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: COMMANDER CRASH |
Hi All!
The Commander which crashed on Saturday is now confirmed by the FAA
Accident and Incident Data website as being a Model 520, serial 25, N520SE,
registered to Robert M Kosola of Sumner, WA.
2 on board, 1 reported as minor injuries.
Earlier news reports referred to the aircraft as either a "twin-engined
Cessna", or a "twin engine Arrowsmith".
News reports describe that the plane took-off, went to about 50 feet, then
one engine went out. The pilot thought he had enough altitude to circle
around and land, but when he banked, he hit the trees. Fire officials say
the men were lucky to be alive and the plane is a total loss.
What do they know, they're reported as saying it was an Arrowsmith!!
520-25 would have celebrated its 50th Birthday later this year.
It's a pity we've lost such an old one, but thankfully those on board are
OK and that's the main thing.
Best Regards,
Barry C.
UK CommanderLand Rep
(G-BARRY)
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
04/02/2002 05:31 cc:
Subject: COMMANDER CRASH
HI KIDS....
Sorry to report that a Commander has crashed shortly after TO
from the Pierce Co. airport (Seattle) No fatalities but one injured.
Information is sketchy but it is reported that the L engine quite on TO.
A friend of mine saw the news story and said it was a "fat nacelle"
airplane. It went into the trees.
I will keep you posted as information is available...capt jimbob
PS Wonder if the guy got some of that "soft training" we were all talking
about??jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | apg86(at)netscape.net <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: COMMANDER CRASH |
Hereis a link to one article http://www.komotv.com/stories/16618.htm
Andres
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>HI KIDS....
>
> Sorry to report that a Commander has crashed shortly after TO
>from the Pierce Co. airport (Seattle) No fatalities but one injured.
>Information is sketchy but it is reported that the L engine quite on TO.
> A friend of mine saw the news story and said it was a "fat nacelle"
>airplane. It went into the trees.
>I will keep you posted as information is available...capt jimbob
>PS Wonder if the guy got some of that "soft training" we were all talking
>about??jb
>
>
--
__________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N414C <N414C(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Upcoming TFR around SLC |
> The FAA has published a new TFR (2/0490) that restricts
> flight within 45nm of SLC. Unfortunately, the FAA
> does not include the restriction information
> with the briefing obtained from DUATs, but instead
> says that pilots should become familiar with SFAR 95
> and lists three web sites that contain the SFAR.
>
> We went to http://dms.dot.gov and found it very
> difficult to find SFAR 95. In fact, I had to call
> their support number 800-647-5527 in order to find
> the document. The person who helped me told me
> that the document number is 11332.
>
>
> If you would like to view this document, you
> can go to our web site www.rmstek.com and
> click on Update TFRs from the main menu bar.
> Then click on TFR 2/0490 on the main window.
> or you can go to http://dms.dot.gov and click on Search
> and type the document number 11332. The document
> is an Adobe Acrobat (PDF) format. After opening
> the file, you can find airspace restrictions on
> page 3 and the regulations under Part 91-General
> Operating and Flight Rules on page 9.
>
>
> The other two web sites the FAA listed were:
>
>
> http://www.faa.gov/avr/armhome.htm
> www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/aces/40html
>
>
>
> SALT LAKE CITY OLYMPICS TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS IN SFAR 95
> February 4, 2002
>
>
>
> Area Rad (nm)
>
> Olympic Village 3
> Olympic Ring Airspace 45
> E Center 2
> Olympic Oval 2
> Peaks Ice Arena 2
> The Ice Sheet 2
> Snowbasin Ski Area 2.5
> Utah Olympic Park 2.5
> Park City/Deer Mtn Valley 3
> Soldier Hollow 2.5
>
>
>
>
> Area Center point
>
> Olympic Village 40.46.367,111.50.617
> Olympic Ring Airspace 40.46.168,111.57.724
> E Center 40.42.127,111.57.093
> Olympic Oval 40.40.380,112.00.047
> Peaks Ice Arena 40.14.062,111.38.088
> The Ice Sheet 41.11.010,111.56.793
> Snowbasin Ski Area 41.12.667,111.51.500
> Utah Olympic Park 40.42.677,111.33.673
> Park City/Deer Mtn Valley 40.38.530,111.29.678
> Soldier Hollow 40.28.895,111.29.740
>
>
>
>
> Area Start Stop
>
> Olympic Village 1/25/02 2/25/02
> Olympic Ring Airspace 2/8/02 2/24/02
> E Center 2/6/02 2/24/02
> Olympic Oval 2/6/02 2/24/02
> Peaks Ice Arena 2/6/02 2/24/02
> The Ice Sheet 2/6/02 2/24/02
> Snowbasin Ski Area 2/6/02 2/24/02
> Utah Olympic Park 2/6/02 2/24/02
> Park City/Deer Mtn Valley 2/6/02 2/24/02
> Soldier Hollow 2/6/02 2/24/02
>
>
> Received from RMS Tech
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming TFR around SLC |
N414C wrote:
>
> > The FAA has published a new TFR (2/0490) that restricts
> > flight within 45nm of SLC. Unfortunately, the FAA
> > does not include the restriction information
> > with the briefing obtained from DUATs
Thanks for the pointers Milt.
My absolute favorite web site is:
http://www.aeroplanner.com
Although it is now a subscription site, the "flight restrictions"
section is still free. I found it to be incredibly useful -
especially during the "dark days" of daily TFR changes. If you
click on the little box at the top of the page (FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS)
you can find the full text as well as graphical depictions of all
of the various TFR's.
Chris (commanderless in Oklahoma) Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Has anyone looked at or have personal experience with the
560F that Barron Thomas has for sale? It's apparently
currently located in Ca. I checked on it today and requested
further details.
Chris (I was _promised_ flying cars!) Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oz Commanders found! |
In a message dated 02/03/02 10:06:47 Pacific Standard Time,
rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au writes:
> Over the recent past I have been scouring Oz for long lost Commanders and a
> fruitful, frustrating and fascinating journey it has been!
>
Russell,
That was a fascinating (if not frustrating) story. Quite a nice piece of
research!
Thanks for the effort and thanks for getting it out to us,
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Martyn <vertigo(at)whidbey.net> |
| Subject: | Re: COMMANDER CRASH |
I'm almost positive that's the Commander I flew briefly last summer
when considering its purchase. After five minutes in the pattern, I
was certain that I would never willingly fly that one again! It was in
need of much maintenance as I recall.
Jim Martyn
Oak Harbor, WA (76S)
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk
To: COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: COMMANDER CRASH
Hi All!
The Commander which crashed on Saturday is now confirmed by the FAA
Accident and Incident Data website as being a Model 520, serial 25,
N520SE,
registered to Robert M Kosola of Sumner, WA.
2 on board, 1 reported as minor injuries.
Earlier news reports referred to the aircraft as either a
"twin-engined
Cessna", or a "twin engine Arrowsmith".
News reports describe that the plane took-off, went to about 50
feet, then
one engine went out. The pilot thought he had enough altitude to
circle
around and land, but when he banked, he hit the trees. Fire
officials say
the men were lucky to be alive and the plane is a total loss.
What do they know, they're reported as saying it was an Arrowsmith!!
520-25 would have celebrated its 50th Birthday later this year.
It's a pity we've lost such an old one, but thankfully those on
board are
OK and that's the main thing.
Best Regards,
Barry C.
UK CommanderLand Rep
(G-BARRY)
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To:
COMMANDERTECH(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
04/02/2002 05:31 cc:
Subject: COMMANDER
CRASH
HI KIDS....
Sorry to report that a Commander has crashed shortly
after TO
from the Pierce Co. airport (Seattle) No fatalities but one injured.
Information is sketchy but it is reported that the L engine quite on
TO.
A friend of mine saw the news story and said it was a "fat
nacelle"
airplane. It went into the trees.
I will keep you posted as information is available...capt jimbob
PS Wonder if the guy got some of that "soft training" we were all
talking
about??jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | LONG DAY AT THE OFFICE |
HI KIDS..
Had one of "those" days today. Finally got some good weather to
go to Spokane felts field to pick up a dog rescue. Had a wonderful trip
over, smooth air and ripping tailwinds!! I took a center seat out to make
room for a dog carrier. Landed and did the doggie biz.
That is where it all went to pot!! Got everybody in, three people and
two border collies, turned on the master, gave it a prime hit the starter and
....Nothing.
Checked all the easy stuff, and spent a few minutes trying to hand
prop the offending engine to no avail. Finally decided that the solenoid is
kaput, (smelled bad) so tried jumping direct to the starter, I got something
then, lots of sparks!!
Long story short, I had heard you could start one engine, remove the
starter and put it on the other engine and ..........
So a quick call to Morris to confirm this was possible and we were
off. My passenger, an A & P as well, borrowed some tools and started on one
side while attacked the other. It went pretty fast. With the offending
starter remove (I just happened to have a cover plate in my parts box in the
baggage compt, why it was still there who knows, but man was I glad!!) and
only two nuts on the good one, I started that engine. Then finished removing
that starter while the engine idled and handed it to my buddy to install on
the other side while I installed the cover.
The guys in the maintenance shop thought we were nuts! The left
engine still wouldn't start (burned up solenoid) so I jumped directly to the
starter and, Varoom we went flying!
Just another day in Commaderland. Now I have a very broken starter to
deal with and some solenoid work as well #2!~*9 $............jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave <vinophile(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming TFR around SLC |
http://olympics.faa.gov/
Hi All:
The olympics are going to ba an aviation bag of worms.
I would recommend landing in Evanston, WY. or
Wendover, NV. I believe that rental cars can be
arranged through the FBO's. Evanston is 1 hour drive
from SLC and Wendover(we call it Bendover)is about an
hour and a half drive.
I live in the middle of Park City. If anyone is
coming out here and would like any info, please ask.
I will be quite busy during the games, but not too
busy for a beer at Wasatch Brew Pub, Etc.....
Dave Mulligan
435-658-2964
Also: http://olympics.faa.gov/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS...
Well, a few of you commented that you liked the trivia question
on the # of ADs, so here is another one. What is the main difference
between a 690C and a 690ELC?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LONG DAY AT THE OFFICE |
Great Story J.B.!!!!
Reminds me of a story I read once about an out island adventure. Seems that
a Twin Goose lost a starter, so they wrapped a rope around one spinner and
strung it across the top the airplane to the other spinner. Then they used
the good starter to spin one engine and the rope did the rest!!!!! (the rest
of the story can be found in Jimmy Buffet's book "Where is Joe merchant" and
yes it is fiction.)
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS..
Thanks to TCFG member George Yundt, one of our 685 owners, I now
have a wonderful collection of 685 brochures and sale literature. I made
high quality color copies of it and will have it here on file and available
to those who might be interested.
Thanks George!! The material will be on the way back to you
tomorrow........jb
PS Nobody wants to guess on the trivia question?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.....
I just opened an attachment that said "lets roll" and it looked
strange to me, made no sense. I may have just stumbled into a virus?? If it
somehow goes to you, don't open it.
Anybody heard of anything like this??...jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting Info (fwd) |
Allen Reed wrote:
> Pass it on.
Yet another false story. Check these things out before
passing along. If they sound too weird or overly inflamitory,
you should have your "capt skeptical" hat on.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS....
There is a complete set of original 560 manuals on ebay. They
will close in 9 hours. NO BIDS!! you can buy them for about 20 bucks. They
are in the original covers and look excellent, better get them.....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Sharp <sharp.r(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long necks and T/P. |
john(at)vormbaum.com said:
>Paul,
>GREAT JOB! Way to go!
>I heard from Dick Wartinger that if you give the rudder some good hard
>alternate kicks, you can get the mains to lock. I'm impressed that you got
>the n/w to lock at all....everyone in authority has led me to believe that
>you usually can't.
>
>Nice job!
>/J
That's especially true if the bungee for the nose wheel is out of
adjustment or broken.
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Are you guys ok? |
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>
> Chris,
> The wind (Santa Ana here in So Cal vernacular) damaged the antennae
> transmitting our T1 signal which would have caused undeliverable errors.
> They have been fixed now.
> Thanks
> Nico
Nico!
Glad to hear from you. I was just about ready to drop your address
from the list. Happy to hear you're back online.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andres P Geraghty <aepg(at)iconcms.com> |
| Subject: | Corona CommandersEmailing: Picture 029, Picture 030, Picture |
031, Picture 032, Picture 033, Picture 034, Picture 035, Picture 036, Picture
037, Picture 038, Picture 039, Picture 040
Sir Barry this is the info you are looking for this aircrafts are
located at Corona (KAJO) California.
First Aircraft, Serial #680F-1212-111, Plate #286596
Second Aircraft, Serial 680F-1088-66, Plate #286430
3rd Aircraft Serial #680-322-16, Plate 232500
4th Aircraft Serial #500A-1222-68, Plate 286549
Best
Andres P Geraghty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Intrex <woodlema(at)intrex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Long necks and T/P. |
Good job. I am happy you guys made it down in one piece, and saves the
plane too.
Having gone through a similar problem, only having lost all fluid in
December over Greensboro NC, How was it you had brakes, I am presuming you
had fluid but no hydraulic pump. Either way it sure adds "Drama" to the
flight. I guess I was fortunate, all my gear came down with no problems and
no hydraulic pressure, and no strange manuevers at 120mph. I will paint
myself lucky.
Old line I heard.
A Good landing is one you can walk away from.
A GREAT landing is one where they can use the airplane again.
So you had a "GREAT" landing.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: ;
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Long necks and T/P.
> Paul,
>
> GREAT JOB! Way to go!
>
> I heard from Dick Wartinger that if you give the rudder some good hard
> alternate kicks, you can get the mains to lock. I'm impressed that you got
> the n/w to lock at all....everyone in authority has led me to believe that
> you usually can't.
>
> Nice job!
>
> /J
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JETPAUL(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:16 AM
> Subject: Long necks and T/P.
>
>
> > I was out toolin' around yesterday in the 520 when I had a little
problem.
> > After the required "I'm back, come out and watch me land low pass" I
> climbed
> > from 10 feet up to the pattern. Just as I was about to flick the gear
> handle
> > down I looked at the Hydraulic Press. gauge. It was on about 500 P. S.
I.
> ,
> > and steady (oh SHIT this ain't good??!!). When the gear handle went
down
> the
> > press. gauge followed it to zero. Now I'm saying, I was afraid of that.
> >
> > No problem right?? the gear free falls on a commander right?? Well,
it's
> > supposed to. And mine did, about half way. If gear up is 3 o'clock,
and
> > down and locked is 6 o'clock, then I had about 5 o'clock, and a gentle
> sway
> > in the slip stream.
> >
> > The first thing I did was slow down to about 85 M.P.H. I had no flaps
> yet,
> > so I did not want to play around with the stall warning at 65 M.P.H. I
> also
> > knew that some aggressive maneuvers were in my future, and wanted some G
> > loading protection.
> >
> > I had a very inexperienced non pilot in the front seat as my only pax.
> >
> > Yes, I know you have all already beaten me to the punch, you're
> screaming
> > at your computer right now.......THE HAND PUMP PAUL, THE HAND PUMP!!!
> >
> > BEEN THERE DONE THAT FIRST, NOTHIN' HAPPENED FOR LONG ENOUGH THAT I WAS
> > STARTING TO WORRY.
> >
> > I called Crunk, Sr. on my cell phone, and got Mrs. Donna. I told her I
had
> an
> > emergency and to go get Jim. Then the cell phone dropped the call.
More
> > pumping, while I tried to call Jim back. No pressure, no Green lights,
> and
> > no flaps, no brakes, no steering.
> >
> > It must be a full system fluid loss. ( I know you thought that was
> impossible
> > because of the stand pipe in the reservoir for the hand pump that
reserves
> > some fluid for it, but that did not happen until about Ser. No. 110, and
I
> > was in No. 39.)
> >
> > O.K. so I have Crunk, Sr. back on the phone, and I am not going back
into
> the
> > 2,000' grass strip with full Hyd. failure. I am also trying desperately
> to
> > get the mains locked. I can see a nose wheel in the spinner, but don't
> have
> > a green on it either.
> >
> > O.K. let's pull some G's, and get this gear down. Well, a few 1 1/2 to
2
> G
> > pulls and the nose was green. But as I watched the main gear every time
I
> > pulled it swung backwards, towards up!!!. O.K. let's do the opposite
and
> see
> > it comes forward. About 3 tries with a 1 1/2 -G push, and both mains
are
> > green. I was pumping the handle, talkin' to Jim, and pushing / pulling
> all
> > at once.
> >
> > O.K. take the airplane over to KFFC, they have a nice long runway, and
try
> to
> > not roll off the end or sides. Still trying the hand pump every once in
a
> > while, and I just got some pressure!!!
> >
> > The flaps came down to about 1/4, and then no more pressure again. KEEP
> > PUMPING, KEEP PUMPING!!!!! O.K. got some more pressure, and the flaps
> are
> > all the way down now. Keep pumping, and keep them from blowing up.
> >
> > Call Jim on the cell phone, and tell him returning to Big T, on the
grass
> > with steering and brakes now.
> >
> > 80 M.P.H. in the pattern, and then bleed the speed down to 65 at touch
> down
> > in the flare. KEEP PUMPING!!!!!! Nail the Brakes hard, (if you've got
> em'
> > use em!!) and turn off in 900' . That's right folks, 900 feet on grass,
> and
> > I was parked. God it was good to be PARKED!!!!!!
> >
> > Jim, the consummate jokester came walking over with a Long Neck Corona
> Beer,
> > and roll of Toilet Paper stuck over the neck of it. He walked up to the
> door
> > and said "here ya go fella', I didn't know which one of these you were
> going
> > to need first!!"
> >
> > JetPaul
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long necks and T/P. |
well, I thought Crunk and Co would have followed up by now,
but they may still be stuck in the cowl of the 520. Last news
was that the hydraulic failure was caused by a failed drive
shaft to the pump. (worn out splines and gear in the angle
adapter for the hydraulic and vac pump). That's why the pump
worked just fine.
Just glad it turned out to be uneventful.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
This is tongue in Red Horse,,,I mean cheek.
The annual is almost done on N78279. There were a few discoveries in the
process but the most interesting was the "nose de-ice" STC which had been
done.
When we brought it back from HWD to X-42 last winter we nearly froze to
death at 9500ft. We just couldn't get it warm inside. With my perverse
thinking I figured it should be cold in the summer then,,,,,wrong.
So, one of my missions this annual was to find out why the ventilation
sucked in the cabin.
The first thing I did was to replace the scat hose in the overhead PSU's.
The stuff I found was old, hard and of small diameter(no jokes please). The
second thing was to pull up the floor and find out why the air didn't come
out of the register at the floor by the door, the other side was OK. I also
had to open up the panel on the side of the fuselage, by the ruder pedals
and the cover on the nose. Then the STC appeared. I understand there was a
problem with the intake for the heater icing up.
Stay with me now.....The line from the Heater box(a source of air) to the
register on the floor buy the door, was routed to the intake for the fresh
air port in the nose(a source of air). The fresh air to your feet(an
outlet) was routed to the register by the door(an outlet). Hint,,,
hint,,,this should be inlet to outlet.
The result of this plumbing was.....When you turned on the heater it blew
hot air out the nose of the airplane from the pilots heat source.
I guess it worked, we didn't get any ice on the way home, but we didn't go
into any either. I have put it back and can't wait to see how much more air
I will get. \
I think if this had been done on purpose it should have been done to the
co-pilots side not MY side.
Should I apply for the TC?
Sorry for being long winded.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 2/11/02 6:26:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> Should I apply for the TC?
>
YEP, I'LL BUY ONE!!.JB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: plumbing STC |
In a message dated 02/11/02 18:26:57 Pacific Standard Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> Sorry for being long winded.
Don't be. That was one of the best stories I've heard about heating and
ventilating systems yet.
Electrical systems are supposed to be complicated, but somebody figured out
how to do an outside loop with your tubes.
Here's some cold weather ops trivia for the guys on the list who are learning
about Commanders: On some models (680F series, as an example) the fuel
source for the heater is the fuel pressure line for the left engine guage.
Therefore, if you want heat on the ground, say, prior to starting both
engines, you'd be running the right engine for the generator to run the
heater/blower and you'd have the left boost pump on to supply fuel to the
heater.
Say you are flying north of the Mason-Dixon line in winter and had to feather
and secure the left engine. You'd want to keep the left boost pump on
(providing you didn't shut down due to an engine fire!!!) to have cabin heat.
The southern boys don't need to know this; it's not that cold enough down
there to need to know, and they can always light the BBQ in the back to keep
warm if-in' they had to.
And if you live way down south, as in Darwin, OZ, you've probably pulled the
heater out and sold it to some shivering Yanks.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander at the Olympics |
In a message dated 02/11/02 22:49:32 Pacific Standard Time,
mulligan(at)starband.net writes:
> Another beautiful day at the olympics! No Commander sightings today. I
> threw some binoculars in my ski pack for tomorrow to try and ascertain the
> N
> number.
>
Dave, everyone,
You may have not seen this news item. I hope the Commander was not one of
these "private jets" described in the story.
Wing Commander Gordon
-------------------
>>>By Deborah Zabarenko SALT LAKE CITY (Reuters) - F-16 fighter jets
intercepted two airborne intruders into the so-called "Olympic ring" of
restricted airspace around Salt Lake City, but both were considered harmless,
a U.S. government spokesman said on Sunday.
Both intruders were small private jets, and were intercepted on Friday, just
hours before the opening ceremonies of the 2002 Winter Games, said Air Force
Major Ed Thomas, a spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command
(NORAD). In both cases, the private planes lacked authorization to fly within
the "Olympic ring," a circle encompassing Salt Lake City and all Olympic
venues.
"Both of these were pilot education issues," Thomas said in a telephone
interview, meaning that neither private pilot was aware of the restrictions.
"There is no mal-intent on the part of either one of these pilots." In the
first case, early Friday afternoon, the Secret Service requested assistance
from a pair of F-16s that were already patrolling the area when a small
private jet from Colorado Springs, Colorado, entered the restricted region.
The two fighter jets, armed with air-to-air missiles and 20 mm Gatling guns,
escorted the plane to Salt Lake City's airport after communicating with the
pilot by radio, Thomas said. Later on Friday, the Federal Aviation
Administration requested interception of a Lear jet coming into Salt Lake
City from North Platte, Nebraska. In this case, F-16s observed the aircraft
from a distance after the FAA made radio contact with it, and then monitored
the plane's landing at Brigham City, at an airfield just outside the
restricted ring, Thomas said. There was a third intercept by unarmed U.S.
Customs aircraft on Saturday, he said.
The F-16s are based at nearby Hill Air Force Base, the site of an Aviation
Security Operations Center with personnel from NORAD, FAA, Customs and the
Secret Service. Since the Sept. 11 hijack attacks at New York's World Trade
Center, the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania, military planes have been
patrolling the skies and have received over 200 FAA requests to check out
potential air threats.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Corona Commanders |
Andres,
Nice work and photos there.
Of particular interest is N500TA which featured in a great March 1994 Plane
& Pilot review of the 500A. At the time it had not long been meticulously
overhauled by the late Bob Anderson of Torrance. For the feature it was
flown over Catalina Island, having just been purchased by George Armstrong
of Huntington Beach Ca.
Cheers
Russell
> Sir Barry this is the info you are looking for this aircrafts are
> located at Corona (KAJO) California.
>
> First Aircraft, Serial #680F-1212-111, Plate #286596
> Second Aircraft, Serial 680F-1088-66, Plate #286430
> 3rd Aircraft Serial #680-322-16, Plate 232500
> 4th Aircraft Serial #500A-1222-68, Plate 286549
>
> Best
> Andres P Geraghty
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic failure |
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> What I cannot remember, though, is whether the main wheels drooped into the
> wind with zero hydraulic pressure, because, if I remember correctly, they
> were held in the wheel wells by hydraulic pressure only.
> Anyone to refresh my memory?
You're correct that the bathtub nacelle birds have no uplock. Loss of
pressure results in gear drop.
I had a line break in the right nacelle of my 520. My very first
clue was the noise of the gear trailing in the breeze. The right
nacelle had this pretty pink fog coming out of it. The gear dropped
down and locked easily after I slowed up a bit and put the handle in
the down position. (good reason to replace the bungies often!)
That airplane was the biggest mess you've ever seen. The it looked like
someone dumped 50 gallons of 5606 on it. Sat on the ramp and dripped
for days.
One thing to remember is that if you have a zero-pressure extension
that the locking pins won't engage. There are little hydraulic
cylinders which push a pin into the top of each main gear to "lock"
it down. All that's holding them down is the bungies holding the
"knee" overcenter. If you get a green light, that means the locking
pin HAS engaged. There is a micro-switch under the hole in the lock
plate which the pin pushes.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corona Commanders |
N500TA was for sale at Chino (KCNO), CA. in the early 90's prior to that
article. I looked at it, but was unable at the time to purchase it. It is
unique in that it had a turbo package on it IO-470 engines. It was very low
total time, under 2000 hours. The radios then were Collins.
I have seen it at Corona since then as in the photo with the props off. I
asked the local aircraft dealer, and he said it needed props due to an AD
and none were available. The owner did not want to sell it.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
tylorh(at)sound.net
913-422-8869
-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Legg [mailto:rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 AM
To: commanderchat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: Corona Commanders
Andres,
Nice work and photos there.
Of particular interest is N500TA which featured in a great March 1994 Plane
& Pilot review of the 500A. At the time it had not long been meticulously
overhauled by the late Bob Anderson of Torrance. For the feature it was
flown over Catalina Island, having just been purchased by George Armstrong
of Huntington Beach Ca.
Cheers
Russell
> Sir Barry this is the info you are looking for this aircrafts are
> located at Corona (KAJO) California.
>
> First Aircraft, Serial #680F-1212-111, Plate #286596
> Second Aircraft, Serial 680F-1088-66, Plate #286430
> 3rd Aircraft Serial #680-322-16, Plate 232500
> 4th Aircraft Serial #500A-1222-68, Plate 286549
>
> Best
> Andres P Geraghty
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerry Johnson <kerry(at)kvelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander at the Olympics |
Was it white with orange strips?
There are one or two 500B's owned by the Forest Service based at Ogden. They
have a approx 18" hole in the floorboards just behind the rear passenger
seats, with a flap and latching system inside. I was at Ogden about a month
ago and had a chance to look one over up close and personal.
Kerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave [mailto:mulligan(at)starband.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 9:24 PM
To: Commander
Subject: Commander at the Olympics
I was at the snowboarding competition at the Park City Mountain Resort
today. Early in the afternoon, during the competition, a Commander flew
over at about 1000-1500 AGL. The bird flew right over the venue. As most
know, we have a no-fly zone over us. Any clue as to which federal agency
still flies commanders? I couldn't spot the N number.....
By the way... It was a beautiful sight......
Dave Mulligan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
This one time,at band camp,I was taxiing Lucille and all of a sudden I could
not stear(was'nt too damn good before)but this time,nothing.After taking the
ole John-Deere and dragging her back to the hanger,we discovered a small
hole in the main pressure line in the well of the left nacelle..When it blew
I immedietly pulled engines and Clark started pumping,the roll was about
30ft. before we came to a stop,not to bad.Curious about the -what if's-the
next time I went up for training,we pulled the left engine.then tried to get
the gear down.Just like the good book says,with a few shakes of the ole yoke
and a little nose high attitude,we had no trouble getting the three
greens,and with a few pumps we got all the flaps and could feel resistance
in the brakes.Oh yea-before it comes up-we pumped the brakes to bleed off
any pressure.As far as the gear drooping,yes-this other time at band camp-we
wanted to say hello to some friends at a party,so after a little up close
and friendly pass,our pull up resulted in the gear hanging out(the
udercarriage)-The kids in the area are still having night- mares,and farmer
Jones still has'nt found his Mule!! Best to All. BIG AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Hydraulic failure |
In a message dated 2/11/02 11:40:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> What I cannot remember, though, is whether the main wheels drooped into the
> wind with zero hydraulic pressure, because, if I remember correctly, they
> were held in the wheel wells by hydraulic pressure only.
GREAT STORY NICO.
Yep, you are correct about the up locks, fatties aint got em.
The wheels will come out if you pull more that about 3 Gs, even less with the
HD Cleveland brakes. I have it on good authority that a guy who used to roll
his Commander all the time once (once) tried to loop it but all the wheels
fell out on the way up so................. Just a rumor.jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic failure |
> I have it on good authority that a guy who used to roll
> his Commander all the time once (once) tried to loop it
>but all the wheels fell out on the way up so................
>. Just a rumor.jb
Apparently they suck back in while you're inverted though:
http://www.aerocommander.com/Pbathtub/1/jim3.jpg
That IS a lot of force on the actuator attach point on the
main gear leg. That gear must weigh close to 200lbs and
it's a LONG lever....must be what...4 ft? That's 2400 ft-lbs
at 3 G's. A 1 square inch actuator cylinder with 1000 lbs
pressure on it just isn't going to win that tug-of-war!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Hydraulic failure |
In a message dated 2/12/02 11:29:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
adding(at)tigerbyte.net writes:
> YourTCFG
>
> I had 4 hyd failures in 5 flights before we finally found the problem
> was the accumulator on my 500A. The nose gear falls out from a lack of
> pressure the mains are held up by the latches. A friend of mine rebuilt
> the upper main inst panel and added a lights and a switch to my electric
> aux pump. The blue light comes on to tell me the electric pump is running.
> A red light is on when I have the pump turned off. Works great and gave me
> warning before I lost every thing.
>
>
> Jim
>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | COMMANDER DOWN - N441WW |
It would appear from the FAA's Preliminary Accident Data, that N441WW, a
500U Shrike, serial 1641-4 crashed in a remote area in the Cherokee
National Forest under unknown circumstances, approximately 35 miles East of
Chattanooga, Tennessee yesterday, 12th February.
This one is registered to Aircenter Inc., and the pilot is reported to be
seriously injured. Nobody else was on board.
Does any know who was flying it, as of course it is one of Gary Gadberry's.
Robert Audier is one of his pilots.
This year is not starting off too well, unlike the last few.
Barry C.
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY
If you are not the intended recipient or employee or agent responsible for
return. Any distribution or copying of this document by anyone other than
the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. Airclaims cannot be held
responsible for any alterations made to this document, intentionally or
Airclaims Limited, Registered Office: Cardinal Point, Newall Road, Heathrow
Airport, Hounslow, Middlesex, TW6 2AS. Company Registration No. 710284
England and Wales.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gadberry |
Good Morning:
According to local pilots, Gary Gadberry was the pilot.
I understand that he was airlifted out of the Cherokee National Forrest via
helicopter.
He is alive as of this am...Thank God for the Strength of the Commander
airframe.
I understand that he has a broken leg and a collapsed lung,
and that a full recovery is in order.
I've called Rob this am and left a message...as to the exact details...
I will communicate with the group as I obtain more info.
Put him on your prayer list.
FlySafe,
Gary Tillman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gadberry |
TILLMAN333(at)aol.com wrote:
> According to local pilots, Gary Gadberry was the pilot.
I'm really sad to hear about this. I can't even imagine how horrible
it must be to go through an actual airplane crash. Gary, if you're
in contact with GB, please express my wishes for a speedy recovery.
This is a time to put other things aside - lives are always more
important than other issues.
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gadberry |
I second the comment on the strong airframe..... it saved me in the Pacific!
I hope Gary the least amount of pain both physically and mentally.
I found the mental aspect took longer then the three months in a wheelchair.
He should have someone to share his anxieties with when anyone visits him.
If I were mobile I would like to visit him, he probably could use the
support.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 06:38
Subject: Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gadberry
> Good Morning:
> According to local pilots, Gary Gadberry was the pilot.
> I understand that he was airlifted out of the Cherokee National Forrest
via
> helicopter.
> He is alive as of this am...Thank God for the Strength of the Commander
> airframe.
> I understand that he has a broken leg and a collapsed lung,
> and that a full recovery is in order.
> I've called Rob this am and left a message...as to the exact details...
> I will communicate with the group as I obtain more info.
> Put him on your prayer list.
> FlySafe,
> Gary Tillman
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com <MRPOULIN27(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gadberry |
Gary,
I spoke with him just before he left. I look forward to any updates. Best wishes
to Gary and his family.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James T. Addington <adding(at)tigerbyte.net> |
We had a 500B do a vmc roll at 50 feet went in nose down and cart wheeled. The
two in the front did not make it but the person in the middle seat walked away.
Then we had another crashed in to a house nose first and both people survived.
The good news was that neither plane burned.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Prayers for Gary |
Yes, Mr. Tillman, PLEASE pass on our thoughts and prayers for Gary
Gadberry's recovery!
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gadberry
> TILLMAN333(at)aol.com wrote:
> > According to local pilots, Gary Gadberry was the pilot.
>
> I'm really sad to hear about this. I can't even imagine how horrible
> it must be to go through an actual airplane crash. Gary, if you're
> in contact with GB, please express my wishes for a speedy recovery.
> This is a time to put other things aside - lives are always more
> important than other issues.
>
> Chris Schuermann
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Von Herzen <brianvon(at)fpga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gadberry |
>I second the comment on the strong airframe..... it saved me in the Pacific!
Tom, can you describe what happened in the Pacific and how the commander
airframe helped?
Thanks,
Brian Von Herzen
potential Commander buyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary |
Gadberry
Good Afternoon:
Gary Gadberry is at Erlanger Medical Center, Chattanooga, TN; in the ICU.
I spoke via phone with his neighbor and she confirmed that Gary had indeed
broken several bones in his legs and he had a collapsed lung. He will FLY
AGAIN !
I have no details as to the cause.
Indications are that the flight originated from Murphy, NC and the
destination
was Lafayette, GA.
I've located photos on the web.
www.LZONTHEWEB.COM go to the photo section, and the photos will be on page
four.
I'm amazed how intact the fuselage looks in the photos.
Most crashes of this magnitude present fatalities in other airframes.
As a SAR, CAP Pilot, I've been involved with too many body bags...As many of
you can attest, it's not a good experience.
I'll try to keep everyone updated with accurate information as I receive it.
The Prayers are still needed, for our friend and his family. Gary Gadberry
Gary Tillman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary |
Gadberry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee |
/ Gary Gadberry
I got one update this morning; someone I know talked to Gary's chief pilot.
Evidently there was a gauge problem with the fuel gauge and the tanks ran
dry...I understand it was only about 30 mi. from Chattanooga. I'm just glad
he'll be flying again!
Again, this is second-hand information, so I can't vouch for its
reliability.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:39 PM
Subject: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary Gadberry
> Good Afternoon:
> Gary Gadberry is at Erlanger Medical Center, Chattanooga, TN; in the ICU.
> I spoke via phone with his neighbor and she confirmed that Gary had indeed
> broken several bones in his legs and he had a collapsed lung. He will FLY
> AGAIN !
> I have no details as to the cause.
> Indications are that the flight originated from Murphy, NC and the
> destination
> was Lafayette, GA.
> I've located photos on the web.
> www.LZONTHEWEB.COM go to the photo section, and the photos will be on
page
> four.
> I'm amazed how intact the fuselage looks in the photos.
> Most crashes of this magnitude present fatalities in other airframes.
> As a SAR, CAP Pilot, I've been involved with too many body bags...As many
of
> you can attest, it's not a good experience.
> I'll try to keep everyone updated with accurate information as I receive
it.
> The Prayers are still needed, for our friend and his family. Gary
Gadberry
>
> Gary Tillman
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gadberry |
It's on the TCFG web site.
There are two downloadable files under "Temporary upload".
The file names are;
HISTFLTTC30.zip
HISTFLTTCFG.doc
To answer your specific question I plowed into the backside of a wave at
about 75 knots.
My 500B did not have a scratch on it after everything came to a stop.
If I were in some Cessna type of aircraft the nose would have folded in on
me.
As far as I am concerned the airframe and my helmet saved my life and the
life of the passenger, the passenger did not have a helmet and was knocked
unconscious.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Von Herzen" <brianvon(at)fpga.com>
To:
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:44
Subject: Re: Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gadberry
> >I second the comment on the strong airframe..... it saved me in the
Pacific!
>
> Tom, can you describe what happened in the Pacific and how the commander
> airframe helped?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian Von Herzen
> potential Commander buyer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee |
/ Gary Gadberry
I think that this is exactly what happened to me!!!!!!!
My fuel gauge indicated 40 USG and I was sure it should have been 25 USG but
calculations of tail winds, power settings convinced me that I must have
consumed less fuel than flight planned.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: ;
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 14:05
Subject: Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary
Gadberry
> I got one update this morning; someone I know talked to Gary's chief
pilot.
> Evidently there was a gauge problem with the fuel gauge and the tanks ran
> dry...I understand it was only about 30 mi. from Chattanooga. I'm just
glad
> he'll be flying again!
>
> Again, this is second-hand information, so I can't vouch for its
> reliability.
>
> /J
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:39 PM
> Subject: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary Gadberry
>
>
> > Good Afternoon:
> > Gary Gadberry is at Erlanger Medical Center, Chattanooga, TN; in the
ICU.
> > I spoke via phone with his neighbor and she confirmed that Gary had
indeed
> > broken several bones in his legs and he had a collapsed lung. He will
FLY
> > AGAIN !
> > I have no details as to the cause.
> > Indications are that the flight originated from Murphy, NC and the
> > destination
> > was Lafayette, GA.
> > I've located photos on the web.
> > www.LZONTHEWEB.COM go to the photo section, and the photos will be on
> page
> > four.
> > I'm amazed how intact the fuselage looks in the photos.
> > Most crashes of this magnitude present fatalities in other airframes.
> > As a SAR, CAP Pilot, I've been involved with too many body bags...As
many
> of
> > you can attest, it's not a good experience.
> > I'll try to keep everyone updated with accurate information as I receive
> it.
> > The Prayers are still needed, for our friend and his family. Gary
> Gadberry
> >
> > Gary Tillman
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee |
/ Gary Gadberry
Tom, suddenly I recall that part of your story!
I wonder if this is bringing a service issue to light? I'm dropping my
airplane off at Morris' tomorrow for maintenance, and the #1 project during
this visit is my gas gauge. I noticed last Saturday on the short flight from
PAO to SLO that there's a short in my system; as soon as the wheels left the
ground, the FULL tank indication of 156 gallons (I topped off before
takeoff) immediately dropped to the 40-gallon mark....and stayed there for
the duration of the flight. Upon landing SLO, I topped off again and had
used 31 gal., exactly what I expected....but it scares me that my gauge
isn't reading as it should be, in flight.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
To: ; ;
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary
Gadberry
> I think that this is exactly what happened to me!!!!!!!
> My fuel gauge indicated 40 USG and I was sure it should have been 25 USG
but
> calculations of tail winds, power settings convinced me that I must have
> consumed less fuel than flight planned.
>
> Tom...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To: ;
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 14:05
> Subject: Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary
> Gadberry
>
>
> > I got one update this morning; someone I know talked to Gary's chief
> pilot.
> > Evidently there was a gauge problem with the fuel gauge and the tanks
ran
> > dry...I understand it was only about 30 mi. from Chattanooga. I'm just
> glad
> > he'll be flying again!
> >
> > Again, this is second-hand information, so I can't vouch for its
> > reliability.
> >
> > /J
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:39 PM
> > Subject: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary
Gadberry
> >
> >
> > > Good Afternoon:
> > > Gary Gadberry is at Erlanger Medical Center, Chattanooga, TN; in the
> ICU.
> > > I spoke via phone with his neighbor and she confirmed that Gary had
> indeed
> > > broken several bones in his legs and he had a collapsed lung. He will
> FLY
> > > AGAIN !
> > > I have no details as to the cause.
> > > Indications are that the flight originated from Murphy, NC and the
> > > destination
> > > was Lafayette, GA.
> > > I've located photos on the web.
> > > www.LZONTHEWEB.COM go to the photo section, and the photos will be
on
> > page
> > > four.
> > > I'm amazed how intact the fuselage looks in the photos.
> > > Most crashes of this magnitude present fatalities in other airframes.
> > > As a SAR, CAP Pilot, I've been involved with too many body bags...As
> many
> > of
> > > you can attest, it's not a good experience.
> > > I'll try to keep everyone updated with accurate information as I
receive
> > it.
> > > The Prayers are still needed, for our friend and his family. Gary
> > Gadberry
> > >
> > > Gary Tillman
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee |
/ Gary Gadberry
Just a comment regarding fuel guages...
I was taught way back when I learned to fly some 26 years ago, by a very
wise instructor, that fuel guages are handy, but NEVER to be trusted.
Always always always know how much fuel is in the tanks by visual
inspection, topping off, or log entries before departing for a flight.
AND...then calculate your fuel consumption based on fuel burn vs time. If
the guages agree with your calculations, that's great, but don't count on
them completely...they are only advisory.
By the way John...I wish I could only burn 31 gallons from PAO to SBP. My
680F burns about 60 gallons for that flight.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F/6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: ;
; ;
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary
Gadberry
> Tom, suddenly I recall that part of your story!
>
> I wonder if this is bringing a service issue to light? I'm dropping my
> airplane off at Morris' tomorrow for maintenance, and the #1 project
during
> this visit is my gas gauge. I noticed last Saturday on the short flight
from
> PAO to SLO that there's a short in my system; as soon as the wheels left
the
> ground, the FULL tank indication of 156 gallons (I topped off before
> takeoff) immediately dropped to the 40-gallon mark....and stayed there for
> the duration of the flight. Upon landing SLO, I topped off again and had
> used 31 gal., exactly what I expected....but it scares me that my gauge
> isn't reading as it should be, in flight.
>
> /J
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To: ; ;
>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 3:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary
> Gadberry
>
>
> > I think that this is exactly what happened to me!!!!!!!
> > My fuel gauge indicated 40 USG and I was sure it should have been 25 USG
> but
> > calculations of tail winds, power settings convinced me that I must have
> > consumed less fuel than flight planned.
> >
> > Tom...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> > To: ;
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 14:05
> > Subject: Re: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary
> > Gadberry
> >
> >
> > > I got one update this morning; someone I know talked to Gary's chief
> > pilot.
> > > Evidently there was a gauge problem with the fuel gauge and the tanks
> ran
> > > dry...I understand it was only about 30 mi. from Chattanooga. I'm just
> > glad
> > > he'll be flying again!
> > >
> > > Again, this is second-hand information, so I can't vouch for its
> > > reliability.
> > >
> > > /J
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:39 PM
> > > Subject: Updates and Photos...Commander Crash in Tennessee / Gary
> Gadberry
> > >
> > >
> > > > Good Afternoon:
> > > > Gary Gadberry is at Erlanger Medical Center, Chattanooga, TN; in the
> > ICU.
> > > > I spoke via phone with his neighbor and she confirmed that Gary had
> > indeed
> > > > broken several bones in his legs and he had a collapsed lung. He
will
> > FLY
> > > > AGAIN !
> > > > I have no details as to the cause.
> > > > Indications are that the flight originated from Murphy, NC and the
> > > > destination
> > > > was Lafayette, GA.
> > > > I've located photos on the web.
> > > > www.LZONTHEWEB.COM go to the photo section, and the photos will be
> on
> > > page
> > > > four.
> > > > I'm amazed how intact the fuselage looks in the photos.
January 09, 2002 - February 13, 2002
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ak