Commander-Archive.digest.vol-as
November 07, 2002 - November 29, 2002
c.. ERP, CRM systems
d.. e-Business (B2B, B2C) solutions
e.. Mobile and Wireless applications
f.. Desktop applications
g.. Data Warehouses
h.. Security and Cryptography systems
and more...
Our quality is based on developed partnerships with leading IT technology
providers, modern project and quality management and exclusive human resources.
Rates only $20 an hour!
For more info...CLICK HERE!!!
Please include your phone number,
and we will be happy to call you!
Or Call: 602-640-0095
Cost effective IT solutions
Experienced teams of specialists
Fair rates
Here is a list of some of the technologies and platforms that our specialists
employ to bring you only the best, most efficient and cost-effective solution:
Application Platforms
.: .Net
.: Java2EE
.: IBM WebSphere Suite
.: Lotus Domino
.: BEA WebLogic
.: ColdFusion
.: Enhydra
Operating Systems
.: all Windows, Mac,
and Unix platforms
.: Epoc
.: Windows CE
.: Palm OS
.: Java2Microedition
Databases
.: MS SQL
.: Oracle
.: DB2
.: FoxPro
.: Informix
.: Sybase Real time embedded systems
.: QNX 4RT
.: QNX Neutrio RT
Free quotes!
Please include your phone number,
and we will be happy to call you!
If you received this letter by mistake please click Unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
I thought of you when the results came in............Sorry about Mr. Davis.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: Commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 9:22 PM
Subject: Not PC
Hey, this may not be politically correct but last night we, as a country, at
least got it correct politically. I, for one, am doing back flips!
NO MORE DICK GEPHARDT!!!!!!!!!! Now, if we could just get rid of Tom Daschle
Sorry for the political commentary....now back to your regularly scheduled programming...
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sneed, Glen <Glen.Sneed(at)qwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GA support of technology |
Well those Centurion engines better be stingy on fuel. They weigh in at
430lbs for a mere 135HP. That is 3.18lbs per hp. At least the LS1 has more
favorable numbers, approx 1.65lbs/hp.
bongo52
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Wall [mailto:cwall(at)worldflight2000.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 9:45 PM
To: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: RE: GA support of technology
It would be a lot cheaper and you would have more choices for airports!!!!
You can get Jet A anywhere, AVGAS is hard to come by and expensive.
But, you wouldn't look good doing it. I think the only logical solution is
to take a turbine commander!!!
Chris
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:26:37 -0600
>Note that the Diamond only has 270HP total. 130HP each engine.
>
>Would you go round the world in one?
>
>Regards,
>
>Tylor Hall
>tylorh(at)sound.net
>913-422-8869
>913-485-3799 Cell
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Fisher [mailto:tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca]
>Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 9:41 PM
>To: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: Re: GA support of technology
>
>Good grief, a "Twinstar" is a helicopter not a stiff-wing.
>Not enough names to go around I guess.
>Tom...
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 18:44
>Subject: Re: GA support of technology
>
>
>>
>>
>> Barry Hancock wrote:
>> > Well, it ain't a Commander, but Diamond Aircraft Company is using
diesel
>> > engines that produce 270hp ea. They give new meaning to fuel efficiency
>> > and low noise levels. It really is quite an aircraft...as 4 place twins
>go.
>>
>> I've been following that also. Aside from being rather strange looking,
>> it appears to be an impressive design.
>>
>> http://www.diamondair.com/contentc/twinstar.htm
>>
>> I just doesn't have the testosterone appeal of a Commander though :-)
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GA support of technology |
On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 08:26 PM, Tylor Hall wrote:
> Note that the Diamond only has 270HP total. 130HP each engine.
That makes more sense.
>
> Would you go round the world in one?
Well, it'll cruise at 200ktas and reportedly has significantly better
single engine performance than any light twin in production. My choice
"around the world" mount is the SR-71....I like to be home for dinner.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GA support of technology |
On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 07:13 AM, Sneed, Glen wrote:
> Well those Centurion engines better be stingy on fuel. They weigh in at
> 430lbs for a mere 135HP. That is 3.18lbs per hp. At least the LS1 has
> more
> favorable numbers, approx 1.65lbs/hp.
If I remember correctly, it's under 10 gph for 185ktas cruise. So
that's less than 5 gph at low cruise. High cruise, 200+KTAS, is in the
14 gph range...impressive.
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GA support of technology |
In a message dated 11/6/02 8:53:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cwall(at)worldflight2000.com writes:
> I think the only logical solution is to take a turbine commander!!!
>
AAAMMMEEENNN!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
In a message dated 11/7/02 4:23:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
TILLMAN333(at)aol.com writes:
> Low Level Stall Demonstration.?
> Check out NTSB Report
>
WOW.. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
>
> If I remember correctly, it's under 10 gph for 185ktas cruise. So
> that's less than 5 gph at low cruise.
Wait, my math isn't that bad! That's 5 gph per side, of course.
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andres Poblete Geraghty <apg86(at)netscape.net> |
Hello I need to know where I can get fix a tach generator for a Cessna 421B has
a Continental GTSIO520D
--
Andres P Geraghty
apg86(at)netscape.net
__________________________________________________________________
The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | OK, I got it right now... |
Here's the quote from the web site. I hate to give out misinformation
or be factually inaccurate.
The performance of the 270 hp TwinStar sets new standards in this class.
Projected performance offers over 1400 mile range, 180 ktas cruise at 9
gph total, 203 ktas at 12 gph total at 12,000 ft, useful load of over
900 lbs plus full fuel, and a sea level climb rate of over 1700 fpm.
Single engine performance will redefine the safety margins in this class.
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 04:59 AM, Bow wrote:
> I thought of you when the results came in............Sorry about Mr.
> Davis.
Thanks. It's very depressing. I never experienced life behind the
Berlin Wall. Given 4 more years under Grey-out Davis, I just might have
a taste of what it was like. It is, however, a comforting environment
for my pinko-commie-rat-bastard airplanes...
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: OK, I got it right now... |
They leave out what I want to know for flying in the Rockies,
Single-engine service ceiling.
None of this "redefine the safety margins" sales crap.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:22
Subject: OK, I got it right now...
Here's the quote from the web site. I hate to give out misinformation or be factually
inaccurate.
The performance of the 270 hp TwinStar sets new standards in this class. Projected
performance offers over 1400 mile range, 180 ktas cruise at 9 gph total,
203 ktas at 12 gph total at 12,000 ft, useful load of over 900 lbs plus full
fuel, and a sea level climb rate of over 1700 fpm. Single engine performance will
redefine the safety margins in this class.
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OK, I got it right now... |
Tom Fisher wrote:
> None of this "redefine the safety margins" sales crap.
Actually, you make a good point Tom. What is the definition of
single-engine safety? Is a safe airplane one with a high SE service
ceiling? Is it one that has enough power to easily make a SE go-around
at max gross with the gear down? Does it mean that it has a very low
VMC? How about requiring negligable pilot effort to fly SE?
One might assume that more power makes for a safer airplane, but on the
flip side, less power generally leads to lower VMC and a more docile
airplane on one fan....hmmm.....
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tach Generator |
Andres Poblete Geraghty wrote:
> Hello I need to know where I can get fix a tach generator for a Cessna 421B has
a Continental GTSIO520D
I'd give AeroAir a try. They seem to be able to deal with most any type
of problem and would surely know how to fix this.
http://www.aeroair.com
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
> They leave out what I want to know for flying in the Rockies,
> Single-engine service ceiling.
> None of this "redefine the safety margins" sales crap.
That's a valid point. I don't know that they know yet as it's still
going through the certification process. This certainly isn't the plane
for every mission. Though it's single engine service ceiling is most
likely higher than a single engine aircraft... :)
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I still have arguments with other (< 1000 hrs) pilot/owners who feel the extra
cost of a twin does not justify the number of times they have an engine problem.
Ok, in the days of small light twins where at gross weight the second engine takes
you to the crash site.....
Or when the mere fact that a mishandled engine failure on a twin could mess things
up....
But after being exposed to Commanders, for the price where are you going to get
better overall performance?
Especially when an engine failure is a non-event in a Commander.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:16
Subject: SESC
They leave out what I want to know for flying in the Rockies,
Single-engine service ceiling.
None of this "redefine the safety margins" sales crap.
That's a valid point. I don't know that they know yet as it's still going through
the certification process. This certainly isn't the plane for every mission.
Though it's single engine service ceiling is most likely higher than a single
engine aircraft... :)
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: OK, I got it right now... |
I haven't flown a piston plane with better single-engine performance both at
altitude and on the go-around then the Commander.
Every point you refer to the Commander excels at.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To: "Commander Chat"
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:04
Subject: Re: OK, I got it right now...
>
>
> Tom Fisher wrote:
> > None of this "redefine the safety margins" sales crap.
>
> Actually, you make a good point Tom. What is the definition of
> single-engine safety? Is a safe airplane one with a high SE service
> ceiling? Is it one that has enough power to easily make a SE go-around
> at max gross with the gear down? Does it mean that it has a very low
> VMC? How about requiring negligable pilot effort to fly SE?
> One might assume that more power makes for a safer airplane, but on the
> flip side, less power generally leads to lower VMC and a more docile
> airplane on one fan....hmmm.....
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I just re-read my document and it would appear that I am stating that I have less
then 1000 hrs.
Not true, it was the "other pilots" that were under 1000 hrs, I have >7,000 hrs.
if anybody cares.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:35
Subject: Re: SESC
I still have arguments with other (< 1000 hrs) pilot/owners who feel the extra
cost of a twin does not justify the number of times they have an engine problem.
Ok, in the days of small light twins where at gross weight the second engine
takes you to the crash site.....
Or when the mere fact that a mishandled engine failure on a twin could mess things
up....
But after being exposed to Commanders, for the price where are you going to get
better overall performance?
Especially when an engine failure is a non-event in a Commander.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:16
Subject: SESC
They leave out what I want to know for flying in the Rockies,
Single-engine service ceiling.
None of this "redefine the safety margins" sales crap.
That's a valid point. I don't know that they know yet as it's still going through
the certification process. This certainly isn't the plane for every mission.
Though it's single engine service ceiling is most likely higher than a single
engine aircraft... :)
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com <tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commander Photo |
Yep!!! Still here. Any luck??? My son and I are "Commander-starved" here
in Louisville, KY.
"Steve Reid" on 11/07/2002 05:48:02 PM
To:
cc:
Subject: FW: Aero Commander Photo
Tom... are you still there?
Steven Reid
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Reid [mailto:sreid(at)downtownairpark.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:10 AM
To: 'tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com'
Subject: RE: Aero Commander Photo
Don't give up on me Tom... I've been very busy since returning from Bogota.
I'll get to your inquiry soon.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com [mailto:tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 12:28 PM
To: market(at)downtownairpark.com
Subject: Aero Commander Photo
I noticed on your AirNav site that the aerial photo appears to be taken
during one of the Aero Commander Fly-ins. Is it possible to get an enlarged
photo? My Dad flew in the original prototype (L-1946). I would love to get
a copy. If there is any cost I will gladly renumerate. THanks!
P.S. - Would there by chance be any videos of the Fly-in?
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission
in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in
its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient,
you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is
STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately
contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in
electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 12:35 PM, Tom Fisher wrote:
> I still have arguments with other (< 1000 hrs) pilot/owners who feel
> the extra cost of a twin does not justify the number of times they have
> an engine problem.
??? They obviously haven't had an engine failure over hostile terrain.
Nor have I, though it's not something I'm hoping for. In my case, I
wear a parachute when flying my single. Seems the best single engine
option out there is the Cirrus SR22 (note I did NOT say SR20), but at a
$300K+ entry price, you can buy a lot of insurance, gas, and MX for the
difference in a solid Commander. The new fractional ownership companies
(this month's AOPA Pilot) are an intriguing alternative if you don't
*require* 5-6 person and 2000 lb payload capability.
> Ok, in the days of small light twins where at gross weight the second
> engine takes you to the crash site.....
> Or when the mere fact that a mishandledengine failure on a twin could
> mess things up....
Same applies in a single...
>
> But after being exposed to Commanders, for the price where are you
> going to get better overall performance?
> Especially whenan engine failure is a non-event in a Commander.
You know you're preaching to the choir, but AMEN! Yea, brother!
barry
>
> Tom...
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OK, I got it right now... |
In a message dated 11/7/02 12:14:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> but on the
> flip side, less power generally leads to lower VMC and a more docile
> airplane on one fan....hmmm.....
> Chris
"MORE POWWER SCOTTY" That low VMC argument just doesn't fly (Pun intended)
I'll take lots of power ever time. If you want LESS power, just pull the
throttle back, but if you need MORE power, well..........
VMC is all about numbers, fly the right ones and no problem.
Actually, VMC is a little bit felonious, it is VYSE that really matters.
I agree with the single engine philosophy, right up until you "feather
number 1," then all that rationalization goes out the window. In 11.5
thousand hours, I have had three SE failures that did not terminate at an
airport (a couple more that did make it home, they dont count). I know of
many others.
One in a Mooney (ruptured FI diaphragm), one in a Champ (carb Ice) and
one in a 600hp Thrush Commander (oil press went away) I flew the Champ and
Thrush out after repairs were made, The mooney came home by road (With no
airframe damage) The same Mooney (IO-360, 200hp) had a second engine failure
several years later. I had just flown the airplane back from FL to Idaho,
mostly at night!! The owner sold the airplane (I did the demo flight with
the new owners) and two flights later, it put a rod through the case! I was
not at the controls and the pilot landed without incident (he was over an
airport on a X-Country) 6 or 7 hours earlier, it would have been over the
Rockies, at night.
Anyway, if you think twins burn to much fuel, don't fly one (why are
you on this list)? The rest of us know the advantages and added utillity a
capable twin offers. The best advise I can give a twin pilot is to lower
"your" gross weight by #200. Leaving at least #200 pounds behind will all
but guarantee that even the most anemic, normally aspirated twin will save
your life on one engine. Just my thoughts jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: OK, I got it right now... |
*** Anyway, if you think twins burn to much fuel, don't fly one (why are you on
this list)? ***
Just to clarify,
The guy I was having the discussion with is not twin rated although he has his
IFR (for a single...shudder).
Yes he complains about fuel consumption and makes that one of his priorities for
aircraft selection.
And he is not on this list.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 14:28
Subject: Re: OK, I got it right now...
In a message dated 11/7/02 12:14:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
writes:
but on the
flip side, less power generally leads to lower VMC and a more docile
airplane on one fan....hmmm.....
Chris
"MORE POWWER SCOTTY" That low VMC argument just doesn't fly (Pun intended) I'll
take lots of power ever time. If you want LESS power, just pull the throttle
back, but if you need MORE power, well..........
VMC is all about numbers, fly the right ones and no problem. Actually,
VMC is a little bit felonious, it is VYSE that really matters.
I agree with the single engine philosophy, right up until you "feather
number 1," then all that rationalization goes out the window. In 11.5 thousand
hours, I have had three SE failures that did not terminate at an airport (a
couple more that did make it home, they dont count). I know of many others.
One in a Mooney (ruptured FI diaphragm), one in a Champ (carb Ice) and
one in a 600hp Thrush Commander (oil press went away) I flew the Champ and Thrush
out after repairs were made, The mooney came home by road (With no airframe
damage) The same Mooney (IO-360, 200hp) had a second engine failure several
years later. I had just flown the airplane back from FL to Idaho, mostly at
night!! The owner sold the airplane (I did the demo flight with the new owners)
and two flights later, it put a rod through the case! I was not at the controls
and the pilot landed without incident (he was over an airport on a X-Country)
6 or 7 hours earlier, it would have been over the Rockies, at night.
Anyway, if you think twins burn to much fuel, don't fly one (why are you
on this list)? The rest of us know the advantages and added utillity a capable
twin offers. The best advise I can give a twin pilot is to lower "your"
gross weight by #200. Leaving at least #200 pounds behind will all but guarantee
that even the most anemic, normally aspirated twin will save your life on
one engine. Just my thoughts jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OK, I got it right now... |
In a message dated 11/7/02 3:06:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
> Just to clarify,
> The guy I was having the discussion with is not twin rated although he has
> his IFR (for a single...shudder).
> Yes he complains about fuel consumption and makes that one of his
> priorities for aircraft selection.
> And he is not on this list.
>
Oh, sorry!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Hamilton <fighterf(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: LS 1 Chev. CONVERSION |
All,
Much truth in this comment, unfortunately, even the Orenda conversion
doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and that was/is a big re design.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
>In a message dated 11/5/02 1:39:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>MOEMILLS(at)aol.com writes:
>
>>My '99 Vette has almost 50,000 miles on it with absolutely no work or
>>maintenance done on it except clean the airfilter
>
>
>I am encouraged to hear Moe say this, he is truly an expert. That said, I
>am still of the opinion that auto engines wont hold up, long term, in an
>airplane. They are ALL designed to operate, continuously, at 50% or less,
>usually much less (25%). Moe says his Vette is running perfect at
>50K. The trouble is, 50K @ 25% power. Now lets see how the same engine
>holds up at 100% for TO and then throttling back all the way to
>75%?? Anytime the ratio exceeds 1/2 HP for each CID, they just wont
>last. The most dependable, long lasting airplane engines made all have
>that in common (O0320 = 150HP R-985 = 450HP) when we exceed this
>(GTISO520 = 435HP) we have engines that seldom make their low TBOs I
>really hope I am wrong, but I bet I am not. Your thoughts??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n414c <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
I am greatly relieved
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: SESC
I just re-read my document and it would appear that I am stating that I have
less then 1000 hrs.
Not true, it was the "other pilots" that were under 1000 hrs, I have >7,000 hrs.
if anybody cares.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:35
Subject: Re: SESC
I still have arguments with other (< 1000 hrs) pilot/owners who feel the extra
cost of a twin does not justify the number of times they have an engine problem.
Ok, in the days of small light twins where at gross weight the second engine
takes you to the crash site.....
Or when the mere fact that a mishandled engine failure on a twin could mess
things up....
But after being exposed to Commanders, for the price where are you going to
get better overall performance?
Especially when an engine failure is a non-event in a Commander.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:16
Subject: SESC
They leave out what I want to know for flying in the Rockies,
Single-engine service ceiling.
None of this "redefine the safety margins" sales crap.
That's a valid point. I don't know that they know yet as it's still going
through the certification process. This certainly isn't the plane for every mission.
Though it's single engine service ceiling is most likely higher than a
single engine aircraft... :)
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
OK, Dennis, first things first.....seaweedmonster.com???? Please
'splain... :)
Second,
Come on Guys....I fly a single (J35 Bonanza), and fly it IFR.
I agree with you, some of our brethren are being a little too tough.
There are cases to be made on both sides, both are right, both are
wrong. It comes down to personal preference. If you maintain your
airplane properly all the time AND use reliable equipment, the chances
of a catastrophic engine failure are small. There are far fewer
accidents in twins than there are in singles, BUT.....BUT, an accident
in a twin is 4 times more likely to be fatal. This stat isn't as bad on
either side as it first seems, however. There are far more singles
flying than twins, but there is a higher average seat count in twins.
To me, bottom line is flying is a dangerous activity. Do all you can to
prevent an accident, and pray that today isn't your day to go. As we
all know, you can do everything right and still get killed.
Hey Dennis, my Commander is for sale.... :)
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
In a message dated 11/7/02 3:54:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
radialpower(at)cox.net writes:
> If you maintain your
> airplane properly
HI BARRY. Are you insinuating that the airplanes that I had the engine
failures in were not properly maintained?? Ok, the Ag Plane was kinda a
mess, but the other two were in good condition. if you fly a single long
enough, it will happen to you. If it is daylight, over flat terrain and VFR,
probably no big deal. But at night, IFR (I cant imagine what it would be
like to watch the gyros unwind as your single glides quietly down through the
soup, even if it is daylight, what a long ride that would be. Hoping you
will see the ground in time to react) over hills of a major city or..........
The guys who sing the merits of a single have never had to walk home,
...yet. I fly because I love the feeling it gives me. I fly a twin because
it is safer than a single and I fly a Commander because I like sleeping in my
own bed at night instead of waiting to fly over the hills at night.
VIVA-LA-COMMANDER!!
PS I own a single too!! :-) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
>
> HI BARRY. Are you insinuating that the airplanes that I had the engine
> failures in were not properly maintained??
Yes! You're irresponsible, and a piss poor IA! :) Geeeeez, I must be
getting a little too pointed around here. Either that or skin is
getting thin....bad thing to do with this crowd. Actually, I knew you
(or someone) was going to say that. Engine failures happen in new
engines, and on well maintained aircraft. It's just far less likely to
happen in those situations.
> Ok, the Ag Plane was kinda a mess, but the other two were in good
> condition.
You forgot to mention you forgot your rabbits foot (or is that Iguana?)
those days. :)
> if you fly a single long enough, it will happen to you.
Well, maybe, maybe not...but probably so. When I fly the CJ I spend a
good deal of time looking for adequate forced landing sites. AND I wear
a parachute. You don't have that option in the typical bug smasher -
which is what this discussion basically revolves around.
> If it is daylight, over flat terrain and VFR, probably no big deal.
> But at night, IFR (I cant imagine what it would be like to watch the
> gyros unwind as your single glides quietly down through the soup, even
> if it is daylight, what a long ride that would be. Hoping you will see
> the ground in time to react) over hills of a major city or..........
Did you have to go there? I have a friend who used to be a controller.
He listened to some sorry sap go down one night in a C210 that iced up.
He keyed the mike the whole way down...with the dog barking in the
background.... Can you say heebeejeebeez?
> The guys who sing the merits of a single have never had to walk
> home, ...yet. I fly because I love the feeling it gives me. I fly a
> twin because it is safer than a single and I fly a Commander because I
> like sleeping in my own bed at night instead of waiting to fly over the
> hills at night. VIVA-LA-COMMANDER!!
> PS I own a single too!! :-) jb
Estas correcto. Yo tambien.
Barry
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n414c <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
If you know your limitations, plan well and do not exceed them you are safe in
a single or a twin.
If you are a jerk, fly like a jerk and do not know what you are doing it doesn't
matter what you fly you will be a statistic.
I do not fly a twin because it's safer. I fly a twin commander because it looks
really cool and everybody at the airport looks at you in awe because you just
gotta be a stud to fly one of them things. And I really like the feeling that
comes right up the seat and thru your b*lls as you firewall those big geared
mothers on takeoff.
If you take all the jerks, dumbshits, and guys who do not belong in planes in thee
first place the stats for singles and twins would be the same.
Then you wouldn't ruffle the feathers of thin skinned wussies like Berry California
Hancock who is really a closet Grey Davis supporter.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave <vinophile(at)yahoo.com> |
Beautiful.............
--- n414c wrote:
> If you know your limitations, plan well and do not
> exceed them you are safe in a single or a twin.
>
> If you are a jerk, fly like a jerk and do not know
> what you are doing it doesn't matter what you fly
> you will be a statistic.
>
> I do not fly a twin because it's safer. I fly a twin
> commander because it looks really cool and everybody
> at the airport looks at you in awe because you just
> gotta be a stud to fly one of them things. And I
> really like the feeling that comes right up the seat
> and thru your b*lls as you firewall those big geared
> mothers on takeoff.
>
> If you take all the jerks, dumbshits, and guys who
> do not belong in planes in thee first place the
> stats for singles and twins would be the same.
>
> Then you wouldn't ruffle the feathers of thin
> skinned wussies like Berry California Hancock who is
> really a closet Grey Davis supporter.
> Milt
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
In a message dated 11/7/02 4:46:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
radialpower(at)cox.net writes:
> commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> >
> >HI BARRY. Are you insinuating that the airplanes that I had the engine
> >failures in were not properly maintained??
>
> Yes! You're irresponsible, and a piss poor IA! :) Geeeeez, I must be
> getting a little too pointed around here. Either that or skin is
> getting thin....bad thing to do with this crowd. Actually, I knew you
> (or someone) was going to say that. Engine failures happen in new
> engines, and on well maintained aircraft. It's just far less likely to
> happen in those situations.
>
> > Ok, the Ag Plane was kinda a mess, but the other two were in good
> >condition.
>
> You forgot to mention you forgot your rabbits foot (or is that Iguana?)
> those days. :)
> >if you fly a single long enough, it will happen to you.
>
Nope, no green things back then!!
> Well, maybe, maybe not...but probably so. When I fly the CJ I spend a
> good deal of time looking for adequate forced landing sites. AND I wear
> a parachute. You don't have that option in the typical bug smasher -
> which is what this discussion basically revolves around.
> No maybe about it, fly a single long enough, and you WILL walk hoe (on a
> good day)
> > If it is daylight, over flat terrain and VFR, probably no big deal.
> >But at night, IFR (I cant imagine what it would be like to watch the
> >gyros unwind as your single glides quietly down through the soup, even
> >if it is daylight, what a long ride that would be. Hoping you will see
> >the ground in time to react) over hills of a major city or..........
>
> Did you have to go there? I have a friend who used to be a controller.
> He listened to some sorry sap go down one night in a C210 that iced up.
> He keyed the mike the whole way down...with the dog barking in the
> background.... Can you say heebeejeebeez?
> Had a good friend in a 210 that failed an engine at night, made it work
with minor injuries, but the point is IT QUITE!!
Yep, sometimes you really do need to go, otherwise your airplane is just a to
y!!
> > The guys who sing the merits of a single have never had to walk
> >home, ...yet. I fly because I love the feeling it gives me. I fly a
> >twin because it is safer than a single and I fly a Commander because I
> >like sleeping in my own bed at night instead of waiting to fly over the
> >hills at night. VIVA-LA-COMMANDER!!
I TOO THINK SINGLES HAVE A PLACE, THEY MAKE GREAT TRAINERS!! :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
> If you take all the jerks, dumbshits, and guys who do not belong in
> planes in thee first place the stats for singles and twins would be the
> same.
Well put, Shirt!
>
> Then you wouldn't ruffle the feathers of thin skinned wussies like
> Berry California Hancock who is really a closet Grey Davis supporter.
:)- Stick and stones will break my bones....
Thin skinned? Ruffled feathers? You better check that distillery,
Milt. I think your filters need changing. Oh, and one more
thing...KISS MY ASS!!!!!! :)-
Barry
> Milt
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 05:56 PM, Bruce Campbell wrote:
> I think it may be a toss up on safety if you normally fly over
> civilisation or somewhere flat. But if you have any hope of a career in
> aviation, or even privately flying neat warbirds, you'd better have
> copious, recent multi time.
What does ME time and flying neat warbirds have in common. Guys fly all
kinds of neat warbirds and they don't have a lick of ME time. Well,
unless you don't think WWII fighters are neat warbirds...
>
> If you're just flying for fun, forever, then get a kitfox ( or YAK)?
Kitfox and Yak in the same sentence? What? You hanging out at Milt's
distillery tonight? Before anyone goes getting hostile, I'm saying all
this with a smile on my face.....see :)
Yak, eh? Well, there's a Yak-52, then there's a Yak-3/9/11, all with
more hp in one engine than most turbine commanders!
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Stehlik <djsj35(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
Seaweedmonster.com = fictional character passed down through generations in
my family with the purpose of scaring the heck out of youngsters when on
vacation in the Northwoods of WI, MN, or Canada. I purchased the URL,
haven't done anything with it yet except email forwarding. Maybe pictures
of Commanders piloted by Sea Weed Monsters!
Second, after thinking about it a while, I think I would rather fly night
IFR in minimums over the mountains in a piper cub (assuming it had the
instruments) with surface winds at 30 Knots, than anything else single or
twin. Engine quits, just turn into the wind, slow her down to MCA + a
little, and helicopter effect on down. Can hit almost anything at that speed
and survive.
Thanks for the offers on the Commanders, I'm going to stick with the Bonanza
a little longer.
Dennis
From: Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net>
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:44:02 -0800
OK, Dennis, first things first.....seaweedmonster.com???? Please 'splain...
:)
Second,
Come on Guys....I fly a single (J35 Bonanza), and fly it IFR.
I agree with you, some of our brethren are being a little too tough. There
are cases to be made on both sides, both are right, both are wrong. It
comes down to personal preference. If you maintain your airplane properly
all the time AND use reliable equipment, the chances of a catastrophic
engine failure are small. There are far fewer accidents in twins than there
are in singles, BUT.....BUT, an accident in a twin is 4 times more likely to
be fatal. This stat isn't as bad on either side as it first seems, however.
There are far more singles flying than twins, but there is a higher
average seat count in twins.
To me, bottom line is flying is a dangerous activity. Do all you can to
prevent an accident, and pray that today isn't your day to go. As we all
know, you can do everything right and still get killed.
Hey Dennis, my Commander is for sale.... :)
Barry
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
In a message dated 11/7/02 7:56:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
djsj35(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Engine quits, just turn into the wind, slow her down to MCA + a
> little, and helicopter effect on down.
Not bad, not bad. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
I don't even fly a single engine helicopter IFR but an amusing scenario.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Stehlik" <djsj35(at)hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 19:50
Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
> Seaweedmonster.com = fictional character passed down through generations
in
> my family with the purpose of scaring the heck out of youngsters when on
> vacation in the Northwoods of WI, MN, or Canada. I purchased the URL,
> haven't done anything with it yet except email forwarding. Maybe pictures
> of Commanders piloted by Sea Weed Monsters!
>
> Second, after thinking about it a while, I think I would rather fly night
> IFR in minimums over the mountains in a piper cub (assuming it had the
> instruments) with surface winds at 30 Knots, than anything else single or
> twin. Engine quits, just turn into the wind, slow her down to MCA + a
> little, and helicopter effect on down. Can hit almost anything at that
speed
> and survive.
>
> Thanks for the offers on the Commanders, I'm going to stick with the
Bonanza
> a little longer.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> From: Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net>
> To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:44:02 -0800
>
> OK, Dennis, first things first.....seaweedmonster.com???? Please
'splain...
> :)
>
> Second,
>
> Come on Guys....I fly a single (J35 Bonanza), and fly it IFR.
>
> I agree with you, some of our brethren are being a little too tough.
There
> are cases to be made on both sides, both are right, both are wrong. It
> comes down to personal preference. If you maintain your airplane properly
> all the time AND use reliable equipment, the chances of a catastrophic
> engine failure are small. There are far fewer accidents in twins than
there
> are in singles, BUT.....BUT, an accident in a twin is 4 times more likely
to
> be fatal. This stat isn't as bad on either side as it first seems,
however.
> There are far more singles flying than twins, but there is a higher
> average seat count in twins.
>
> To me, bottom line is flying is a dangerous activity. Do all you can to
> prevent an accident, and pray that today isn't your day to go. As we all
> know, you can do everything right and still get killed.
>
> Hey Dennis, my Commander is for sale.... :)
>
> Barry
>
>
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lowell Girod <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
Nico;
I'm sure there were many prayers said as they descended into the clouds. I
just hope they remembered to give God thanks and praise for hearing and answering
those prayers.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com;radialpower(at)cox.net;YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Sent: 11/8/02 2:43:55 AM
Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
This discussion reminds me of an incident that involved our local instructor
in the mid 1970's when he flew a charter flight in a single, IFR. The single Comanche
lost its oil pressure when they were VFR on top and when the engine finally
croaked, they were over mountains and from PIREPS they knew the clouds below
them were enveloping the mountain tops below them. The passengers knew something
was amiss, especially since most of the noise was gone and there was
this prop blade visible above the cowling.
The pilot told them to kiss each other good bye because he cannot see that they
will get out of this without being badly hurt at best. He trimmed the Comanche
for best glide angle and entered the soup on a straight and descending path,
fully knowing that he just lost sight of the sun for the last time. It was
eerily quiet in the plane as someone cried softly. As time passed, seconds going
by as hours, the tension became unbearable. Perhaps 10 minutes later, when
everyone was sure there would be an enormous bang and then silence, they broke
out underneath the clouds, on final for a small private farm strip in the mountains.
The pilot reportedly lowered the landing gear and flared to land. They
walked away as if they planned to land there. Needless to say, they went home
in a four-wheeled, unable-to-leave-the-ground vehicle.
You see, folks, this is the kind of experience that I don't need in my life.
That's why I prefer twins in general, and Commanders in particular.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: radialpower(at)cox.net ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
In a message dated 11/7/02 3:54:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, radialpower(at)cox.net
writes:
If you maintain your
airplane properly
HI BARRY. Are you insinuating that the airplanes that I had the engine failures
in were not properly maintained?? Ok, the Ag Plane was kinda a mess, but
the other two were in good condition. if you fly a single long enough, it will
happen to you. If it is daylight, over flat terrain and VFR, probably no
big deal. But at night, IFR (I cant imagine what it would be like to watch the
gyros unwind as your single glides quietly down through the soup, even if it
is daylight, what a long ride that would be. Hoping you will see the ground
in time to react) over hills of a major city or..........
The guys who sing the merits of a single have never had to walk home,
...yet. I fly because I love the feeling it gives me. I fly a twin because
it is safer than a single and I fly a Commander because I like sleeping in my
own bed at night instead of waiting to fly over the hills at night. VIVA-LA-COMMANDER!!
PS I own a single too!! :-) jb
--- Lowell Girod
--- dongirod(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lowell Girod <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | THAT'S a bird Strike!!! |
Got this today so thought I would pass it along.
Don
Subject: THAT'S a bird Strike!!!
Don't know if you guys have seen this. He had to be going faster than a Kitfox-
maybe as fast as a Lancair?? Ben
Attached are photos of Right Hand Horizontal Stabilizer of Navy T-44AT
aircraft out of Corpus Christi, TX after encountering what looks like a Pterodactyl!
Looks like it stopped at the main spar.
Attachment Converted: "c:\mydocu~1\eudora\attach\Mvc-411s.jpg"
Attachment Converted: "c:\mydocu~1\eudora\attach\Mvc-408s.jpg"
Attachment Converted: "c:\mydocu~1\eudora\attach\Mvc-407s.jpg"
Attachment Converted: "c:\mydocu~1\eudora\attach\Mvc-412s.jpg"
<<<<
--- Lowell Girod
--- dongirod(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)inreach.com> |
HEY GUY'S,
It's one thing to joke about ourselves, wives, religion... but we Califorians
are a bit sensitive about the next four years of internment....We never
should have let those guys out of Berkley in the 60's, we;re paying for it today!
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: n414c
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:36 PM
Subject: SE vs ME
If you know your limitations, plan well and do not exceed them you are safe in
a single or a twin.
If you are a jerk, fly like a jerk and do not know what you are doing it doesn't
matter what you fly you will be a statistic.
I do not fly a twin because it's safer. I fly a twin commander because it looks
really cool and everybody at the airport looks at you in awe because you just
gotta be a stud to fly one of them things. And I really like the feeling that
comes right up the seat and thru your b*lls as you firewall those big geared
mothers on takeoff.
If you take all the jerks, dumbshits, and guys who do not belong in planes in
thee first place the stats for singles and twins would be the same.
Then you wouldn't ruffle the feathers of thin skinned wussies like Berry California
Hancock who is really a closet Grey Davis supporter.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk <Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
So where on the NTSB site???? - Milt
Hi Milt, et al,
The preliminary NTSB report on the accident lat Friday can be found at:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20021106X05442&key=1
Now, I'm not a pilot, so am not qualified to make any comment.
However, in my personal opinion, I think it extremely foolish to
demonstrate power-off stall maneuvers at an altitude of just 1,000ft. Add
another zero to that and perhaps I could understand.
Fly safe my friends, I would just hate to see a name on this list becoming
just another statistic.
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
In a message dated 11/7/02 11:57:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sales(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> This discussion reminds me of an incident that involved our local instructor
> in the mid 1970's when he flew a charter flight in a single, IFR
As I relaxed last nigh while Sue was watching "Elimidate"?? (Not exactly the
most engaging TV), I rifeled through my old Flying mags and hit on their 75th
anniversary issue. Inside was a riveting account of a beech 36. They were
IFR on top when a main bearing spun in the case blocking oil to the center
journal with predictable results, it broke the crank into.
The controller gave them vectors to an airport only 5 miles away,
easily within gliding distance. The airplane didnt make the airport, two
fatal. They went on about headwinds, placing the gear down to soon etc, but
the fact is, they were in a very precarious situation, above a cloud deck in
a SE airplane. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
I won't *let* it happen. I vote, I speak my mind, I try to influence
friends. It's all I'm able to do, but at least I'm doing that.
Barry
On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 08:32 AM, Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> This state is going to wake up with a huge hangover for not delivering
> this destroyer of human excellence to the dungeons of obscurity. And we
> let it happen.
> Liberals are easy to define: That which they profess is that which they
> abhor. They profess to work for the ordinary man, but it is the
> ordinary man that they really despise for they enslave him. They
> believe that they have privileges superior to ordinary people. There is
> no room for a monarchy in this country.
> Nico
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Lundborg
> To: n414c ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:10 AM
> Subject: Re: SE vs ME
>
> HEY GUY'S,
> It's one thing to joke about ourselves, wives, religion... but
> we Califorians are a bit sensitive about the next four years of
> internment....We never should have let those guys out of Berkley in the
> 60's, we;re paying for it today!
>
> Craig
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: n414c
> To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:36 PM
> Subject: SE vs ME
>
> If you know your limitations, plan well and do not exceed them you are
> safe in a single or a twin.
>
> If you are a jerk, fly like a jerk and do not know what you are doing
> it doesn't matter what you fly you will be a statistic.
>
> I do not fly a twin because it's safer. I fly a twin commander because
> it looks really cool and everybody at the airport looks at you in awe
> because you just gotta be a stud to fly one of them things. And I
> really like the feeling that comes right up the seat and thru your
> b*lls as you firewall those big geared mothers on takeoff.
>
> If you take all the jerks, dumbshits, and guys who do not belong in
> planes in thee first place the stats for singles and twins would be the
> same.
>
> Then you wouldn't ruffle the feathers of thin skinned wussies like
> Berry California Hancock who is really a closet Grey Davis supporter.
> Milt
>
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 08:32 AM, Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> We never should have let those guys out of Berkley in the 60's, we;re
> paying for it today!
Funny thing...I'm a Berkeley grad. I don't know how I survived as I
paid for my conservative views in almost every class I took. I can only
imagine if I was a poly sci major...
Being in that environment for 3 years did take it's toll. It probably
took me 5 years to again become unsympathetic and horrified by the
liberal ideology. You're right Nico, the far left hates...not in their
intent, but in their complete lack of understanding of the rule of
unintended consequences, etc.
I can't stand this, I'm going to the airport.....
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
The hardest thing to drive home to people that didn't like Simon but
liked Grey-out even less, is that unless they voted for Simon they
lost. Voting for Joe Schmoe in the Green Party might be a nice ideal
(for some, certainly not me), but it is WASTED. No one cares about
anything except who wins. These people don't seem to get that. Would
you rather have a dummy or the devil? "Well, he's not the devil, look
at how tough he is on criminals and how he wants to clean up our
environment, blah, blah, blah" These people have been so effectively
brain washed to thinking all Republicans/conservatives think about is
money. That they are obsessed with corporate growth and will do
anything to protect that, AS IF IT'S A BAD THING! Ya know, who do most
of these people go to work for? They obviously don't connect politics
to THEIR jobs, as they should. The hispanic base in the state wants so
badly to vote conservative. They've been brought up on conservative
values, then they come here and it disappears? I don't think so, it's
just that no one on the conservative side is willing to go there.
Look, my brain is starting to overheat, the tilt sign is flashing.... I
will say this, though. I'm 34 years old. I care about the welfare of
our country, I care greatly about my home state. I pray a lot will get
done nationally in the next two years. We must not squander this
opportunity. Tax code reform, permanent tax cuts, flat tax, abolish the
horrifically unfair death tax once and for all, school vouchers, social
security reform, secure our borders, REDUCE government size and promote
the private sector, SELF-RELIANCE, SELF-RELIANCE, SELF -RELIANCE! How
the (@#%&($ did our country get so great??? Was it (#$%&*$ social
programs, or was it SELF-RELIANCE???
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, I'm 34 years old. Every day I mentally take a step closer to
entering the political arena. Perhaps some day you will have a chance
to vote for me....
Off to the hangar....phew!
Barry
On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 09:10 AM, Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> And you are one of the valiant ones, Barry, like many others who gave
> it their best shot. But the collective effort of those who knew better
> did not come up to snuff. Only a few percentage points more and he
> would have been out.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barry Hancock
> To: Nico van Niekerk
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:50 AM
> Subject: Re: SE vs ME
>
> I won't *let* it happen. I vote, I speak my mind, I try to influence
> friends. It's all I'm able to do, but at least I'm doing that.
>
> Barry
> On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 08:32 AM, Nico van Niekerk wrote:
>
> This state is going to wake up with a huge hangover for not delivering
> this destroyer of human excellence to the dungeons of obscurity. And we
> let it happen.
> Liberals are easy to define: That which they profess is that which they
> abhor. They profess to work for the ordinary man, but it is the
> ordinary man that they really despise for they enslave him. They
> believe that they have privileges superior to ordinary people. There is
> no room for a monarchy in this country.
> Nico
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Lundborg
> To: n414c ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:10 AM
> Subject: Re: SE vs ME
>
> HEY GUY'S,
> It's one thing to joke about ourselves, wives, religion... but
> we Califorians are a bit sensitive about the next four years of
> internment....We never should have let those guys out of Berkley in the
> 60's, we;re paying for it today!
>
> Craig
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: n414c
> To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:36 PM
> Subject: SE vs ME
>
> If you know your limitations, plan well and do not exceed them you are
> safe in a single or a twin.
>
> If you are a jerk, fly like a jerk and do not know what you are doing
> it doesn't matter what you fly you will be a statistic.
>
> I do not fly a twin because it's safer. I fly a twin commander because
> it looks really cool and everybody at the airport looks at you in awe
> because you just gotta be a stud to fly one of them things. And I
> really like the feeling that comes right up the seat and thru your
> b*lls as you firewall those big geared mothers on takeoff.
>
> If you take all the jerks, dumbshits, and guys who do not belong in
> planes in thee first place the stats for singles and twins would be the
> same.
>
> Then you wouldn't ruffle the feathers of thin skinned wussies like
> Berry California Hancock who is really a closet Grey Davis supporter.
> Milt
>
>
> Barry Hancock
> All Red Star
> (949) 300-5510
> radialpower(at)cox.net
> www.allredstar.com
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
>
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
In a message dated 11/7/2002 10:56:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
djsj35(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Second, after thinking about it a while, I think I would rather fly night
> IFR in minimums over the mountains in a piper cub (assuming it had the
> instruments) with surface winds at 30 Knots, than anything else single or
> twin. Engine quits, just turn into the wind, slow her down to MCA + a
> little, and helicopter effect on down. Can hit almost anything at that
> speed
> and survive.
>
> Thanks for the offers on the Commanders, I'm going to stick with the
> Bonanza
> a little longer.
>
> Dennis
>
That sounds like a good way to get a tree branch enema. Dennis, this is in
no way directed at you, this is just food for thought, O.K???!!!!!
Just remember, in a single when it gets quite you have 2 choices, you can
turn on the landing lights at night, and if you don't like what you see, you
can turn them off again. Your options are much better in a twin.
I have 3 gear up landings in singles, and 3 engine failures in singles. None
were my fault, and all were related to MX failures. That all happened in the
first 1,000 hours of my flying career. Since then I have a little over
10,000 hours in Airline service. All multi-turbine. Only 2 engines have
failed since, and only once have I pumped the gear down. BUT NOT ONE SCRATCH
IN REVENUE SERVICE. You do the math and come up with your own odds.
I AGREE WITH J.B. IF YOU FLY A SINGLE LONG ENOUGH IT WILL BITE YOU.
IF YOU ARE IN A TWIN YOU DOUBLE YOUR CHANCES FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING.
I stopped flying night IFR in singles when I was only 26 years old. Go to 3
funerals before you hit 30, and you might make the same decision. 2 of those
guys were in twins, and one was a day VFR in a single. But for me, I go with
the odds, and I will double my odds every chance I get.
How many of you would go for a parachute jump without a reserve chute???
Thats my million bucks worth. Which is what I value my butt at, and how I
treat my family and friends.
Have to get up early on Sat, and go do another 8 hours at FL 370. See you
all soon, because I'm going to be in a twin. (122,000 lbs. but still a
twin!!)
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
I have been reading this for some time. After almost 33 years with a major
air carrier I assure you if it was all that safe to fly on one engine the
airlines would be doing it because they will cut every dime they can. Most
have gone from 4 to 2 big engines and two man crews. Now I have opened
myself up for pot shots but that is my two centsand I am sticking to it. I
had to shut the engine down on a single at nite and survived with out any
problems. It seems like any time I start out to go home in a single, it
doesn't matter if I am only going 50 miles and start out at 8:00 in the
morning, it is dark before I get home. That is why I have a twin. I do have
a Citabria for fun though.
Jim A
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: JETPAUL(at)aol.com [mailto:JETPAUL(at)aol.com]
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:04 PM
To: dennis(at)seaweedmonster.com; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
In a message dated 11/7/2002 10:56:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
djsj35(at)hotmail.com writes:
Second, after thinking about it a while, I think I would rather fly
night
IFR in minimums over the mountains in a piper cub (assuming it had the
instruments) with surface winds at 30 Knots, than anything else single
or
twin. Engine quits, just turn into the wind, slow her down to MCA + a
little, and helicopter effect on down. Can hit almost anything at that
speed
and survive.
Thanks for the offers on the Commanders, I'm going to stick with the
Bonanza
a little longer.
Dennis
That sounds like a good way to get a tree branch enema. Dennis, this is
in no way directed at you, this is just food for thought, O.K???!!!!!
Just remember, in a single when it gets quite you have 2 choices, you can
turn on the landing lights at night, and if you don't like what you see, you
can turn them off again. Your options are much better in a twin.
I have 3 gear up landings in singles, and 3 engine failures in singles.
None were my fault, and all were related to MX failures. That all happened
in the first 1,000 hours of my flying career. Since then I have a little
over 10,000 hours in Airline service. All multi-turbine. Only 2 engines
have failed since, and only once have I pumped the gear down. BUT NOT ONE
SCRATCH IN REVENUE SERVICE. You do the math and come up with your own odds.
I AGREE WITH J.B. IF YOU FLY A SINGLE LONG ENOUGH IT WILL BITE YOU.
IF YOU ARE IN A TWIN YOU DOUBLE YOUR CHANCES FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING.
I stopped flying night IFR in singles when I was only 26 years old. Go to
3 funerals before you hit 30, and you might make the same decision. 2 of
those guys were in twins, and one was a day VFR in a single. But for me, I
go with the odds, and I will double my odds every chance I get.
How many of you would go for a parachute jump without a reserve chute???
Thats my million bucks worth. Which is what I value my butt at, and how I
treat my family and friends.
Have to get up early on Sat, and go do another 8 hours at FL 370. See you
all soon, because I'm going to be in a twin. (122,000 lbs. but still a
twin!!)
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
In a message dated 11/8/02 7:06:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, JETPAUL(at)aol.com
writes:
> Have to get up early on Sat, and go do another 8 hours at FL 370. See you
> all soon, because I'm going to be in a twin. (122,000 lbs. but still a
> twin!!)
Needs to go on a diet!! I guies my "leave #200 behind" idea wont matter
much, hugh. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lowell Girod <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
It's plenty safe Jim, providing you have an ejection seat! Did it for a time!
NO PROBLEM!
if it was all that safe to fly on one engine the airlines would be doing it because
they will cut every dime they can. ---
--- dongirod(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Hamilton <fighterf(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: OK, I got it right now... |
All,
There are four fundamental forces at work, thrust, weight, lift, and the
FAA ( or in our case downunder, the CASA, the Campaign Against Safe Aviation)
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
>And I couldn't agree with you more. The engine failures I had was one in a
>SE at night just after take off on a long enough runway to flare and land,
>and a one in my twin Comanche on take off, but I was alone and the auxs
>were empty and I had half fuel in the mains. The ideal situation to test
>the SE capability in a (very) light twin. I feathered and climbed out and
>returned to land. It performed extremely well, not because the Comanche is
>good on one engine, but the configuration favored a better than normal
>outcome. IMHO there are only three critical forces that determine the
>outcome of an engine out in a ME plane: pilot proficiency, auw, and the
>power left in the operating engine. Manage them all carefully and the
>failure of an engine shouldn't kill anybody.
>Nico
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>To: chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ;
>commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>
>Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:28 PM
>Subject: Re: OK, I got it right now...
>
>In a message dated 11/7/02 12:14:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
>
>>but on the
>>flip side, less power generally leads to lower VMC and a more docile
>>airplane on one fan....hmmm.....
>>Chris
>
>
>"MORE POWWER SCOTTY" That low VMC argument just doesn't fly (Pun
>intended) I'll take lots of power ever time. If you want LESS power, just
>pull the throttle back, but if you need MORE power, well..........
> VMC is all about numbers, fly the right ones and no
> problem. Actually, VMC is a little bit felonious, it is VYSE that really
> matters.
> I agree with the single engine philosophy, right up until you
> "feather number 1," then all that rationalization goes out the
> window. In 11.5 thousand hours, I have had three SE failures that did
> not terminate at an airport (a couple more that did make it home, they
> dont count). I know of many others.
> One in a Mooney (ruptured FI diaphragm), one in a Champ (carb Ice)
> and one in a 600hp Thrush Commander (oil press went away) I flew the
> Champ and Thrush out after repairs were made, The mooney came home by
> road (With no airframe damage) The same Mooney (IO-360, 200hp) had a
> second engine failure several years later. I had just flown the airplane
> back from FL to Idaho, mostly at night!! The owner sold the airplane (I
> did the demo flight with the new owners) and two flights later, it put a
> rod through the case! I was not at the controls and the pilot landed
> without incident (he was over an airport on a X-Country) 6 or 7 hours
> earlier, it would have been over the Rockies, at night.
> Anyway, if you think twins burn to much fuel, don't fly one (why
> are you on this list)? The rest of us know the advantages and added
> utillity a capable twin offers. The best advise I can give a twin pilot
> is to lower "your" gross weight by #200. Leaving at least #200 pounds
> behind will all but guarantee that even the most anemic, normally
> aspirated twin will save your life on one engine. Just my thoughts jb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com <tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commander Photo |
It was a 520 - the 12th one built. THey were scheduled to get one of the
very first ones but the military ordered several and they got pushed back.
Dad used to say he could bring the Commander in real slow - does 60 knts
sound right?
All the chat about SE vs ME reminds me of that fact that Dad had to make a
singel engne landing in a Commander one time. Either he or a maintenance
guy forgot to put the oil cap back on after checking the oil (Crunkleton
will be happy to know he was not the first!!!). All of a sudden he heard
this banging so he shut the engine down. Had no ploblems landing because,
heck , it was a Commander!!!! It helped that there were no passengers on
board , too!!
"Allen Reed" on 11/08/2002 04:47:45 PM
To: tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com
cc:
Subject: Re: FW: Aero Commander Photo
Tom,I put a set of clevelands on Lucille and only used half the 1700 both
ways.I don't know if your Dad flew a 680,but anything less would make
it,but, like he said, just clear the fence. BIG AL
the airstrip is 0TN0 the 0s are zeros if you want to look it up
>From: tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com
>To: "Allen Reed"
>Subject: Re: FW: Aero Commander Photo
>Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:51:08 -0500
>
>
>GREAT SHOT!!!!!
>
>You know , your comment about the runway length is very interesting
because
>my Dad used to fly out of a grass strip that he CLAIMS was only 1,500
>ft!!!!! He said they always cleared teh fence at the end of the runway -
>BUT NOT BY MUCH!!!!!!! I always thought that it was his memory (he's 83
>now) or just pilot bravado (as some are want to do on occasion - like "..
>the one that got away...." fish stories?) Someday I hope to fly back
there
>and photo the strip and do some sort of calculation to see if he was
right.
>BUt after what you confirmed maybe he's telling the truth
>................................
>
>
>"Allen Reed" on 11/07/2002 05:45:07 PM
>
>To: tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com
>cc:
>
>Subject: Re: FW: Aero Commander Photo
>
>
>Found it! this was taken at the 1700ft strip in Tenn. that was next door
to
>my home.Oh yea,we flew in and out of it all the time! BIG AL
>
>
> >From: tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com
> >To: "Allen Reed"
> >CC: "joseph Kinnaird"
> >Subject: Re: FW: Aero Commander Photo
> >Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:38:50 -0500
> >
> >
> >Wow!!!!!! Beautiful!!!!!!!!! Hey Joseph, look at this gorgeous babe!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Allen Reed" on 11/07/2002 05:29:25 PM
> >
> >To: tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com
> >cc:
> >
> >Subject: Re: FW: Aero Commander Photo
> >
> >
> >
> >Hey Tom,Here's a photo of Lucille. She's a 1957 680. I have an action
>shot
> >if i can figure out how to get it to you. Enjoy. BIG AL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com
> > >To: Steve Reid
> > >CC: Commander Chat
> > >Subject: Re: FW: Aero Commander Photo
> > >Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:06:19 -0500
> > >
> > >
> > >Yep!!! Still here. Any luck??? My son and I are "Commander-starved"
>here
> > >in Louisville, KY.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >"Steve Reid" on 11/07/2002 05:48:02 PM
> > >
> > >To:
> > >cc:
> > >
> > >Subject: FW: Aero Commander Photo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Tom... are you still there?
> > >
> > >Steven Reid
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Steve Reid [mailto:sreid(at)downtownairpark.com]
> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:10 AM
> > >To: 'tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com'
> > >Subject: RE: Aero Commander Photo
> > >
> > >
> > >Don't give up on me Tom... I've been very busy since returning from
> >Bogota.
> > >I'll get to your inquiry soon.
> > >
> > >Steve
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com [mailto:tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com]
> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 12:28 PM
> > >To: market(at)downtownairpark.com
> > >Subject: Aero Commander Photo
> > >
> > >
> > >I noticed on your AirNav site that the aerial photo appears to be
taken
> > >during one of the Aero Commander Fly-ins. Is it possible to get an
> >enlarged
> > >photo? My Dad flew in the original prototype (L-1946). I would love to
> >get
> > >a copy. If there is any cost I will gladly renumerate. THanks!
> > >
> > >P.S. - Would there by chance be any videos of the Fly-in?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
> >confidential
> > >and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
> > >intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
>copying,
> > >distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including
any
> > >reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
> >transmission
> > >in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the
>material
> >in
> > >its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
> >confidential
> > >and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
> > >intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
>copying,
> > >distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including
any
> > >reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
> >transmission
> > >in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the
>material
> >in
> > >its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
>confidential
> >and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
> >intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying,
> >distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
> >reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
>transmission
> >in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material
>in
> >its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
> >
> ><< Img03.jpg >>
>
>
>Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>
>This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential
>and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
>intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
>distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
>reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
transmission
>in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material
in
>its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
><< plane.bmp >>
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient,
you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is
STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately
contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in
electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | phil stubbs <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
Having a hard time finding brushes for my Bendix MG54E motor generator
(inverter) circa 1962. A couple avionics shops and local motor rebuilders
could not help.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Phil Stubbs
N160K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commander Photo |
In a message dated 11/9/02 6:18:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com writes:
> does 60 knts
> sound right?
Yep, it would do that. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
Barry,
That's amazing Barry, Berkley. Not to "one up" this but I worked with a Co-pilot
who graduated from Berkley in the late sixties. The amazing thing to me was
he was in the ROTC!!!!! I thought the two mutually exclusive terms.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Hancock
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: SE vs ME
On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 08:32 AM, Nico van Niekerk wrote:
We never should have let those guys out of Berkley in the 60's, we;re paying
for it today!
Funny thing...I'm a Berkeley grad. I don't know how I survived as I paid for
my conservative views in almost every class I took. I can only imagine if I was
a poly sci major...
Being in that environment for 3 years did take it's toll. It probably took me
5 years to again become unsympathetic and horrified by the liberal ideology.
You're right Nico, the far left hates...not in their intent, but in their complete
lack of understanding of the rule of unintended consequences, etc.
I can't stand this, I'm going to the airport.....
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
(122,000 lbs. but still a twin!!)
Hey Jet is that(122,000 lb.) the fuel load?
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lowell Girod <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | A MOVING STORY - Please Read |
I got this today and thought it was a neat story!
Subject: Iwo Jima
Each year I am hired to go to Washington, DC, with the eighth grade
class from Clinton, WI, where I grew up, to videotape their trip. I
greatly enjoy visiting our nation's capitol, and each year I take
some special memories back with me. This fall's trip was especially
memorable.
On the last night of our trip we stopped at the Iwo Jima
Memorial. This memorial is the largest bronze statue in the world and
depicts one of the most famous photographs in history-that of the
six brave soldiers raising the American Flag at the top of a rocky
hill on the island of Iwo Jima, Japan, during WW II. Over one
hundred students and chaperones piled off the buses and headed
towards the memorial. I noticed a solitary figure at the base of
the statue, and as I got closer he asked, "Where ar e you guys
from?"
I told him that we were from Wisconsin.
"Hey, I'm a cheesehead, too! Come gather around Cheeseheads, and I
will tell you a story."
(James Bradley just happened to be in Washington, DC, to speak at
the memorial the following day. He was there that night to say good
night to his dad, who has since passed away. He was just about to
leave when he saw the buses pull up. I videotaped him as he spoke
to us, and received his permission to share what he said from
my videotape. It is one thing to tour the incredible monuments
filled with history in Washington, D. C., but it is quite another
to get the kind of insight we received that night. When all had
gathered around he reverently began to speak. Here are his words
that night.)
"My nam e is James Bradley and I'm from Antigo, Wisconsin. My dad is
on that statue, and I just wrote a book called "Flags of Our
Fathers" which is #5 on the New York Times Best Seller list right
now. It is the story of the six boys you see behind me. Six boys
raised the flag. The first guy putting the pole in the ground is
Harlon Block. Harlon was an all-state football player.
He enlisted in the Marine Corps with all the senior members of his
football team. They were off to play another type of game. A game
called "War."
But it didn't turn out to be a game. Harlon, at the age of 21, died
with his intestines in his hands. I don't say that to gross you
out, I say that because there are generals who stand in front of
this statue and talk about the glory of war. You guys need to know
that most of the boys i n Iwo Jima were 17, 18, and 19 years old.
(He pointed to the statue) You see this next guy? That's Rene
Gagnon from New Hampshire. If you took Rene's helmet off at the
moment this photo was taken, and looked in the webbing of that
helmet, you would find a photograph---a photograph of his
girlfriend. Rene put that in there for protection, because he was
scared. He was 18 years old. Boys won the battle of Iwo Jima. Boys.
Not old men.
The next guy here, the third guy in this tableau, was Sergeant Mike
Strank. Mike is my hero. He was the hero of all these guys. They
called him the "old man" because he was so old. He was already 24.
When Mike would motivate his boys in training camp, he didn't say,
"Let's go kill some Japanese" or "Let's die for our country." He
knew he was talking to little boys. Instead h e would say, "You do
what I say, and I'll get you home to your mothers."
The last guy on this side of the statue is Ira Hayes, a Pima Indian
from Arizona. Ira Hayes walked off Iwo Jima. He went into the
White House with my dad. President Truman told him, "You're a
hero." He told reporters, "How can I feel like a hero when 250 of
my buddies hit the island with me and only 27 of us walked off
alive?" So you take your class at school. 250 of you spending a
year together having fun, doing everything together. Then all 250
of you hit the beach, but only 27 of your classmates walk off
alive. That was Ira Hayes. He had images of horror in his mind. Ira
Hayes died dead drunk, face down at the age of 32... ten years after
this picture was taken.
The next guy, going around the statue, is Frankl in Sousley from
Hilltop Kentucky. A fun-lovin' hillbilly boy. His best friend, who
is now 70, told me, "Yeah, you know, we took two cows up on the
porch of the Hilltop General Store. Then we strung wire across the
stairs so the cows couldn't get down. Then we fed them Epsom
salts. Those cows crapped all night." Yes he was a fun-lovin'
hillbilly boy. Franklin died on Iwo Jima at the age of 19. When
the telegram came to tell his mother that he was dead, it went to
the Hilltop General Store. A barefoot boy ran that telegram up to
his mother's farm. The neighbors could hear her scream all night
and into the morning. The neighbors lived a quarter of a mile away.
The next guy, as we continue to go around the statue is my dad,
John Bradley from Antigo, Wisconsin, where I was raised. My dad
lived until 1994, but he would never give interviews. When Walter
Cronkite's producers, or the New York Times would call, we were
trained as little kids to say, "No, I'm sorry sir, my dad's not
here. He is in Canada fishing. No, there is no phone there, sir.
No, we don't know when he is coming back."
My dad never fished or even went to Canada. Usually, he was sitting
there right at the table eating his Campbell's soup. But we had to
tell the press that he was out fishing. He didn't want to talk to
the press. You see, my dad didn't see himself as a hero. Everyone
thinks these guys are heroes, 'cause they are in a photo and a
monument. My dad knew better. He was a medic. John Bradley from
Wisconsin was a caregiver. In Iwo Jima he probably held over 200
boys as they died. And when boys died in Iwo Jima, they writhed
&nbs p; and screamed in pain.
When I was a little boy, my third grade teacher told me that my dad
was a hero. When I went home and told my dad that, he looked at me
and said, "I want you always to remember that the heroes of Iwo
Jima are the guys who did not come back. Did NOT come back."
So that's the story about six nice young boys. Three died on Iwo
Jima, and three came back as national heroes. Overall 7000 boys died
on Iwo Jima in the worst battle in the history of the Marine
Corps. My voice is giving out, so I will end here. Thank you for
your time."
Suddenly, the monument wasn't just a big old piece of metal with a
flag sticking out of the top. It came to life before our eyes with
the heartfelt words of a son who did indeed have a father who was a
hero. Maybe not a hero for the reasons most people would believe,
but a hero none-the-less.
We need to remember that God created this vast and glorious world
for us to live in, freely, but also at great sacrifice. Let us never
forget from the Revolutionary War to the Gulf War and all the wars
in-between that sacrifice was made for our freedom. Remember to
pray praises for this great country of ours and also pray for
those still in murderous unrest around the world. STOP, and thank
God for being alive at someone else's sacrifice. God Bless
--- Lowell Girod
--- dongirod(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A MOVING STORY - Please Read |
In a message dated 11/9/02 3:26:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dongirod(at)earthlink.net writes:
> >> and thank
>> God for being alive at someone else's sacrifice. God Bless
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Amen jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
Nope that's max gross Bill, and just so you know............I was expecting
none the less from you.
It took you exactley 11 hours, and 6 mins to get that jab in............
And while were at it, when was the last time you flew a twin, besindes the
500A??
See all that multi time, and all of it was 3 or more engines. Hell you don't
even need to land at the nearest suitable after an engine failure when you're
at work......Just try to remember where your car is parked (quite a feat at
your age ) and divert there!!!!!!!
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A MOVING STORY - Please Read |
In a message dated 11/9/2002 6:26:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dongirod(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Suddenly, the monument wasn't just a big old piece of metal with a
> flag sticking out of the top. It came to life before our eyes with
> the heartfelt words of a son who did indeed have a father who was a
> hero. Maybe not a hero for the reasons most people would believe,
> but a hero none-the-less.
>
Maybe the father knew what few of us actually do, and I think it's shamefull
more don't. Doc Milt is a Marine, so I bet he already knows this story.
I am only guessing, but I bet he did not feel himself a hero in the sense of
the word because he was not the first person, or the first group to raise the
flag on that rock atop Iwo Jima. It had been captured a day or two before by
the first marines there, with no camera present. Then the Jap's slipped
about 5 destroyers down the slot and reinforced thier position. The fresh
Japanese climbed the mountain in the dark and killed almost all the exhausted
marines there. It was not untill our navy shut down the Tokyo express coming
down the slot every night that we were in a position to retake the hill.
They were standing on blood soaked ground, U.S. blood, some of thier best
friend's blood. But because the camera was there they were hailed as heros.
Don't get me wrong, THEY WERE ALL HEROS, but these guys knew they were only
finishing the job, and had already buried the FIRST heros of that mountain.
Sempir Fi (from respect, not service)
JetPaul (wannabe WW II Historian)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
Just curious.How much does the fuel in a 747 weigh? BIG
>From: JETPAUL(at)aol.com
>To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
>Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:12:20 EST
>
>Nope that's max gross Bill, and just so you know............I was expecting
>none the less from you.
>
>It took you exactley 11 hours, and 6 mins to get that jab in............
>
>And while were at it, when was the last time you flew a twin, besindes the
>500A??
>
>See all that multi time, and all of it was 3 or more engines. Hell you
>don't
>even need to land at the nearest suitable after an engine failure when
>you're
>at work......Just try to remember where your car is parked (quite a feat at
>your age ) and divert there!!!!!!!
>
>JetPaul
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Calling all photos |
There is a team of FlightSim developers who are building software modules for
the Aero Commander 520 and the Shrike.
They've put out a request for panel photos and especially the 520 -- power
settings / cruise performance figures.
I know you lads can come up with tons of info to help them create a realistic
product.
Please send the photos and any cruise data (even scans of performance charts)
to:
jomas(at)leaco.net
aka Milton Shupe
They will be doing the AC-680E and probably a few other models as well, in
the future.
Thank you, all!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
> That's amazing Barry, Berkley.
Yeah, went there on a tennis scholarship. We were top 5 in the nation
most of the time I was there, so it was fun. It's a beautiful campus,
and a great place to get an education, provided you know you are getting
a VERY skewed perspective from a socio-political stand point. Though it
is 5% of the crowd making 95% of the noise.
> Not to "one up" this but I worked with a Co-pilot who graduated
> fromBerkley in the late sixties. The amazing thing to me was he was
> in the ROTC!!!!! I thought the two mutually exclusive terms.
Yeah, it is kind of ironic. I actually took my private pilot ground
school there, along with maritime navigation (of which 99% I've
forgotten!). At the time I thought a previous eye injury would make me
"obviously unqualified" for PTS (Pilot Training School). I've
subsequently learned that was not the case, but I'm too old now.
Otherwise I'd probably be flying fighters for a living.
>
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
Yup!!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: JETPAUL(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
Nope that's max gross Bill, and just so you know............I was expecting none
the less from you.
It took you exactley 11 hours, and 6 mins to get that jab in............
And while were at it, when was the last time you flew a twin, besindes the 500A??
See all that multi time, and all of it was 3 or more engines. Hell you don't
even need to land at the nearest suitable after an engine failure when you're
at work......Just try to remember where your car is parked (quite a feat at your
age ) and divert there!!!!!!!
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
Just curious.How much does the fuel in a 747 weigh? BIG
If you could open the window and holler down "Filler Up!", it would take
250,000 lbs. At 6.7 pounds per gallon that's 37,313 gallons. It burns
about 25,000 PPH so that's about 3,732 gallons per hour or 6.2 gallons per
statute mile. (I had to take my shoes off to do all this ciphering).
That's a -100. The-200 carries about 300,000 lbs.......... I think.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N2755A - Model 680E serial 733-33 |
Hi All,
I see from the FAA register changes for the month of October that the above-mentioned
680E was cancelled on October 30th as 'destroyed'.
I can trace no accident to this Commander, so presume the owners have scrapped
it.
Registered owners were Ben & Terry Rothwell, of Route 2, Box 593E, Fairfield Bay,
Arkansas 72088. They had owned this Commander since December 1981.
Does anyone know of its exact fate? If so, I would appreciate knowing.
I thought some of you may wish to contact them also, incase there is a possible
spares source here.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
UK ComanderLand rep.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | fwd trim resistor info |
FWD INFO:
chris, i do not keep the list in my computer, but here are two items of
interest if you want to send them out. First, the resistors for the trim
are sold by beech under the el part number. you have to install it, but
we bought a few about ten years ago and rebuilt ours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Val Brady <valbrady(at)thegrid.net> |
For the loss of a nail, a shoe was lost,
For the loss of a shoe, a steed was lost,
For the loss of a steed, a warrior was lost,
For the loss of a warrior, a battle was lost,
For the loss of a battle, a war was lost,
For the loss of a war, an empire was lost.
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Empire-schlempire!
For the loss of a *&%$#@# gas cap, a good old Commander is stuck on the ground.
Please help N6277B find a replacement.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N2755A - Model 680E serial 733-33 |
Hi gang!
A contact within Air-Britain informs me that N2755A was actually damaged beyond
repair following a flood in Clinton, Arkansas during December 1982. (actually,
they quoted Arizona, but I'm positive that's wrong!)
If anyone knows the exact day involved, I'll be grateful. I will however be trawling
the internet to see if I can find anything.
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Cc: commandetech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 1:10 PM
Subject: N2755A - Model 680E serial 733-33
Hi All,
I see from the FAA register changes for the month of October that the above-mentioned
680E was cancelled on October 30th as 'destroyed'.
I can trace no accident to this Commander, so presume the owners have scrapped
it.
Registered owners were Ben & Terry Rothwell, of Route 2, Box 593E, Fairfield
Bay, Arkansas 72088. They had owned this Commander since December 1981.
Does anyone know of its exact fate? If so, I would appreciate knowing.
I thought some of you may wish to contact them also, incase there is a possible
spares source here.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
UK ComanderLand rep.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N2755A - Model 680E serial 733-33 |
The FBO #501-745-6550
>From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>To: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>,
>commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>CC: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: Re: N2755A - Model 680E serial 733-33
>Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:58:49 -0000
>
>Hi gang!
>
>A contact within Air-Britain informs me that N2755A was actually damaged
>beyond repair following a flood in Clinton, Arkansas during December 1982.
>(actually, they quoted Arizona, but I'm positive that's wrong!)
>
>If anyone knows the exact day involved, I'll be grateful. I will however be
>trawling the internet to see if I can find anything.
>
>Barry C.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barry Collman
> To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Cc: commandetech(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 1:10 PM
> Subject: N2755A - Model 680E serial 733-33
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I see from the FAA register changes for the month of October that the
>above-mentioned 680E was cancelled on October 30th as 'destroyed'.
>
> I can trace no accident to this Commander, so presume the owners have
>scrapped it.
>
> Registered owners were Ben & Terry Rothwell, of Route 2, Box 593E,
>Fairfield Bay, Arkansas 72088. They had owned this Commander since December
>1981.
>
> Does anyone know of its exact fate? If so, I would appreciate knowing.
>
> I thought some of you may wish to contact them also, incase there is a
>possible spares source here.
>
> Very Best Regards,
>
> Barry C.
> UK ComanderLand rep.
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | newsletter/shoulderharness |
HI KIDS..Well the fall newsletters are finally on the way (almost) I worked
all weekend to make certain they would be in Mondays mail only to remember
that there will be no mail tomorrow (and for a very good reason) So, Tuesday
will see them leave. Sorry for the delay. With the flyin, my Mom's stroke,
Dick Wartingers passing etc, etc, it was just hard to get it finished up.
It is a really good issue with an article by Chris S. on engine
overhaul, one from John Bosch, Commander Aero, on turbine instrument gauge
calibration. Plus there are two Airworiness Concern sheets from the Feds and
a new AD (Turbines only). Lots more.
If you have been thinking about becoming a TCFG member, now would be a
great time.
Also, a new TCFG member, AirMatrix owned by Bill Willaims has a
completely restored 560A Commander and he lists "Shoulder Harness" as a
notable modification. You can contact him at 360-435-7343. AirMatrix is
located on the Arlington, WA airport as is TCAC. I hope to visit them both
in a few weeks.
Hope all is well in Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodd Browne <dc8f(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Airplane stories |
Good morning all,
Todays smile inducers (fwd)........
----- Original Message -----
From: tom taylor
To: Sherry Ditmer ; Rodd Browne ; Rob Bach ; Ladd Gardner ; Howard Smith ; Dayle
Buschkotter ; Bob Bietel ; Bob Bailey ; Bill Traylor ; Ben Scott ; Arleen Johnson
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:56 PM
Subject: Fw: Airplane stories
Tommy L. Taylor
www.airswap.com
(775) 835-6060
1 866 AIR-SWAP
Fax (775) 835-6066
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Chapman
To: tom taylor ; Dick King ; bill williams ; RCJJAX(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:39 PM
Subject: Fw: Airplane stories
Enjoy!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: Fw: Airplane stories
Airplane Stories
Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o'clock, 6 miles!"
Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!"
==============
One day, the pilot of a Cherokee 180 was told by the tower to hold short of the
runway while a DC-8 landed.
The DC-8 landed, rolled out, turned around, and taxied back past the Cherokee.
Some quick-witted comedian in the DC-8 crew got on the radio and said, "What a
cute little plane. Did you make it all by yourself?"
Our hero the Cherokee pilot, not about to let the insult go by, came back with
a real zinger: "I made it out of DC-8 parts. Another landing like that and
I'll have enough parts for another one."
===============
There's a story about the military pilot calling for a priority landing because
his single-engine jet fighter was running "a bit peaked."
Air Traffic Control told the fighter jock that he was number two behind a B-52
that had one engine shut down.
"Ah", the pilot remarked, " the dreaded seven-engine approach".
==================
A student became lost during a solo cross-country flight. While attempting to
locate the aircraft on radar, ATC asked, "What was your last known position?"
Student: "When I was number one for takeoff."
=====================
Taxiing down the tarmac, the DC10 abruptly stopped, turned around and returned
to the gate. After an hour-long wait, it finally took off. A concerned passenger
asked the flight attendant, "What was the problem?" "The pilot was bothered
by a noise he heard in the engine," explained the flight
attendant," and it took us a while to find a new pilot."
====================
"Delta 341, for noise abatement turn right 45 degrees."
"But Center, we are at 35,000 feet. How much noise can we make up here?"
"Sir, have you ever heard the noise a 747 makes when it hits a 727?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI CHRIS. Buddy Windham needs some advice in installing oil cells. Would
you give him a call at 616-896-6488 ext #2 Thanks!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
I've been waiting for this one....
It depends how cold the fuel is.
T...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
To: ;
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 19:13
Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
> Just curious.How much does the fuel in a 747 weigh? BIG
>
>
> >From: JETPAUL(at)aol.com
> >To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> >Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
> >Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:12:20 EST
> >
> >Nope that's max gross Bill, and just so you know............I was
expecting
> >none the less from you.
> >
> >It took you exactley 11 hours, and 6 mins to get that jab in............
> >
> >And while were at it, when was the last time you flew a twin, besindes
the
> >500A??
> >
> >See all that multi time, and all of it was 3 or more engines. Hell you
> >don't
> >even need to land at the nearest suitable after an engine failure when
> >you're
> >at work......Just try to remember where your car is parked (quite a feat
at
> >your age ) and divert there!!!!!!!
> >
> >JetPaul
>
>
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
Too technical TOM!!! BIG AL Besides,Bow has already told me.
>From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
>To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
>Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:53:21 -0800
>
>I've been waiting for this one....
>It depends how cold the fuel is.
>T...
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
>To: ;
>Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 19:13
>Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
>
>
> > Just curious.How much does the fuel in a 747 weigh? BIG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: JETPAUL(at)aol.com
> > >To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> > >Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
> > >Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:12:20 EST
> > >
> > >Nope that's max gross Bill, and just so you know............I was
>expecting
> > >none the less from you.
> > >
> > >It took you exactley 11 hours, and 6 mins to get that jab
>in............
> > >
> > >And while were at it, when was the last time you flew a twin, besindes
>the
> > >500A??
> > >
> > >See all that multi time, and all of it was 3 or more engines. Hell you
> > >don't
> > >even need to land at the nearest suitable after an engine failure when
> > >you're
> > >at work......Just try to remember where your car is parked (quite a
>feat
>at
> > >your age ) and divert there!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >JetPaul
> >
> >
> > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >
> >
> >
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
I did that because the question was vague.
T...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
To: ;
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 20:36
Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
> Too technical TOM!!! BIG AL Besides,Bow has already told me.
>
>
> >From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> >To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> >Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
> >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:53:21 -0800
> >
> >I've been waiting for this one....
> >It depends how cold the fuel is.
> >T...
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
> >To: ;
> >Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 19:13
> >Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
> >
> >
> > > Just curious.How much does the fuel in a 747 weigh? BIG
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: JETPAUL(at)aol.com
> > > >To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> > > >Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
> > > >Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:12:20 EST
> > > >
> > > >Nope that's max gross Bill, and just so you know............I was
> >expecting
> > > >none the less from you.
> > > >
> > > >It took you exactley 11 hours, and 6 mins to get that jab
> >in............
> > > >
> > > >And while were at it, when was the last time you flew a twin,
besindes
> >the
> > > >500A??
> > > >
> > > >See all that multi time, and all of it was 3 or more engines. Hell
you
> > > >don't
> > > >even need to land at the nearest suitable after an engine failure
when
> > > >you're
> > > >at work......Just try to remember where your car is parked (quite a
> >feat
> >at
> > > >your age ) and divert there!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >JetPaul
> > >
> > >
> > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rakiah <thinyouk(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | It's proven - it works |
Human Growth Hormone Therapy
As seen on NBC, CBS, and CNN, and even Oprah! The health
discovery that actually reverses aging while burning fat,
without dieting or exercise! This proven discovery has even
been reported on by the New England Journal of Medicine.
Forget aging and dieting forever! And it's Guaranteed!
Body Fat Loss
Wrinkle Reduction
Energy Level
Muscle Strength
Sexual Potency
Emotional Stability
Memory
82% improvement
61% improvement
84% improvement
88% improvement
75% improvement
67% improvement
62% improvement
[ Visit Our Web Site and Learn The Facts ]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
> I did that because the question was vague.
> T...
It helps to know how vague the "askee" is(pretty vague on a good day);>)
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right. |
Yeh asshole,pick on the dumb REDNECK!!! BIG
>From: Bow <w.bow(at)att.net>
>To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: Re: Singles aren't so bad. Just use them right.
>Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:18:02 -0500
>
> > I've been waiting for this one....
> > It depends how cold the fuel is.
> > T...
>
>I was going to be a Smart A__ and write "usually 6.7 lbs", but chose the
>other road. ;>)
>
>bilbo
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
>
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Commander 560 shot down?!?! |
Barry,
I thought I'd pose this to you via the list as I found it interesting...
According to a military web site, a 560 Commander was shot down by a Mig
17P in May of 1963. It was owned by a country code "IIAA" . Any
knowledge of this?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Somebody POUNCE on this! |
Don't have any idea what the reserve is, but the opening is $1
...for a shrike seat!
If you guys don't bid, i will and I don't even own an airplane :-)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872506780
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Somebody POUNCE on this! |
Hey Chris, et al.....
I went to look at the shrike seat on ebay, and the price was 50 bucks, It
said the reserve was already met.
We already have Shrike seats in our 520, with a complete new interior.
Therefore I won't be bidding against you, but thought I would let you know.
Did I mention that our 520 is for sale in the very low 50's???
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | eBay Shrike Seat |
Hey guys,
Just so we're all on the same page & don't put the hurt on each other, I've
bid $400.00 and am the current high bidder. Two requests:
1) everyone on the list keep in touch.....we don't want to jack the price up
for each other. If you want the seat, you can bid through ME, and I'll sell
it to whoever needs it for the price of the winning bid if I get it.
2) How much are these things worth????
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:41 PM
Subject: Somebody POUNCE on this!
> Don't have any idea what the reserve is, but the opening is $1
> ...for a shrike seat!
> If you guys don't bid, i will and I don't even own an airplane :-)
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872506780
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: eBay Shrike Seat |
HI GUYS Buddy Windham will KILL for that seat. He has two already for his
560E I will contact him now jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS....
.........I just got off the phone wit ha project engineer from Cleveland
brakes. It seem they are looking into an STC for their brakes on the 520/560
airplanes (YEA)! I am gathering information to help them. Anyone on the
list have those brakes on there 520/560?? Please let me know, they are
serious and we can help. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A MOVING STORY - Please Read |
Did you know that of the 6 in the photo and on the statue in Washingtion, only
3 servived to come home.
You are right. They were all heros.
Tylor Hall
Simper Fi
>
">Suddenly, the monument wasn't just a big old piece of metal with a
> flag sticking out of the top. It came to life before our eyes with
> the heartfelt words of a son who did indeed have a father who was a
> hero. Maybe not a hero for the reasons most people would believe,
> but a hero none-the-less.
>
>
>Maybe the father knew what few of us actually do, and I think it's shamefull
more don't. Doc Milt is a Marine, so I bet he already knows this story.
>
>I am only guessing, but I bet he did not feel himself a hero in the sense of
the word because he was not the first person, or the first group to raise the
flag on that rock atop Iwo Jima. It had been captured a day or two before by
the first marines there, with no camera present. Then the Jap's slipped about
5 destroyers down the slot and reinforced thier position. The fresh Japanese
climbed the mountain in the dark and killed almost all the exhausted marines
there. It was not until
>
>They were standing on blood soaked ground, U.S. blood, some of thier best friend's
blood. But because the camera was there they were hailed as heros.
>
>Don't get me wrong, THEY WERE ALL HEROS, but these guys knew they were only
finishing the job, and had already buried the FIRST heros of that mountain.
>
>Sempir Fi (from respect, not service)
>
>JetPaul (wannabe WW II Historian)