Commander-Archive.digest.vol-at
November 29, 2002 - December 15, 2002
Sir Barry -- now that you say two Turbo Commanders got the Astafan (I thought
they said "Astazou") engine treatment, I'm not sure which one I saw. My
mental memory picture of the interior, is that of the 690 model; ram's horn
yokes and 690 appointments in the rear.
What impressed me was that first, the jet blast didn't appear to be roasting
the main landing gear and second, that this airplane was in regular commuter
use.
Perhaps short on range, but a functioning mod none the less.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Keith,
The Astazou was a turboprop engine, and it did even find it's way onto the
Commander depicted with the Astafans.
Now, will you have to wait until the book's published, or....................
............oh, go on then.
Before going to France, the Commander spent a while in the UK with Miles
Aviation. It was they who installed the Astazou XII engines, circa 1970.
I've got to do some digging around to ascertain the performance parameters of
that engine, but I guess it wasn't a success!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Bizarre mod
|
| In a message dated 11/29/02 10:38:36 Pacific Standard Time,
| tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
|
|
| > I too was in Toulouse in 1979.
| > I was at the Aerospeciale factory doing the Twin Dauphine course for KLM.
|
| It's a small world!
|
| For a people who eat snails and frogs, the French do build superior aircraft.
|
| Sir Barry -- now that you say two Turbo Commanders got the Astafan (I thought
| they said "Astazou") engine treatment, I'm not sure which one I saw. My
| mental memory picture of the interior, is that of the 690 model; ram's horn
| yokes and 690 appointments in the rear.
|
| What impressed me was that first, the jet blast didn't appear to be roasting
| the main landing gear and second, that this airplane was in regular commuter
| use.
|
| Perhaps short on range, but a functioning mod none the less.
|
| Wing Commander Gordon
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 11/29/02 11:28:08 Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
> The Astazou was a turboprop engine, and it did even find it's way onto the
> Commander depicted with the Astafans.
>
Hmmmm. I know Astazou makes, or is, a turbo prop engine -- I thought, as
with Garrett, they also made a turbofan engine.
Well, I couldn't understand most of what I was told in Toulouse. Although I
was in a type rating class taught in English, the moment class let out for
the day, the instructors couldn't speak English. Tres gran mystere ...
For some reason, my recollection of the fan engine'd Turbo Commander was that
the front section (fan section) was about half as long as in the photo Chris
pointed us to.
But that was so long ago. Now I can harldy remember where I've flown to this
week.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
Hi I'm Bill Bow,
Most of the story is in on the Commander web site. It is a found under Miss
September. Unfortunately it is THE SEPTEMBER none of us will forget.
I have flown civilian airplanes ranging from Cessna 150's to Boeing 747's
with lots of gaps in the middle. that means about 150 hours with 2 engines
running in 2 engine airplanes. My wife is a recent student pilot.
We (a family thing) have owned this Commander for about 2 years, and it has
been airworthy about half of the time. Most recently it has been broken in
TLH for about a month with an exhaust pipe blown off.
Oh well, when it runs, IT'S GREAT!!
Bilbo
AC-500A
N78379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
> For a people who eat snails and frogs, the French do build superior
aircraft.
YEA GORDON,
Like the Air Bus A300-600? You know the one with the removable tail.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 11/29/02 17:00:19 Pacific Standard Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> YEA GORDON,
> Like the Air Bus A300-600? You know the one with the removable tail.
Um. Well, uhhhh, I wasn't thinking of their large aircraft. I was focused
on their helicopters and Dassault's products.
But you're absolutely right. The removable tail is an innovation that
surpasses the convertible top Boeing 737.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
In a message dated 11/28/2002 9:44:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
V-Man7(at)attbi.com writes:
> I've completed my second frame off Vette project...
WHAT YEAR VETTE?? I put myself through A &P school rebuilding Corvette, I
have owned 13 of them. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
In a message dated 11/29/2002 12:37:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> So, folks, welcome Todd Mueller. His email address is formonetm(at)aol.com
>
Welcome Todd! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Wing Commander,
>
I've found that experience is what you get when you're expecting
something else.
Crunk
>
>>
>
>Todd,
>
>"Experience is something you get just after you need it."
>
>Glad we've been of service.
>
>Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Hamilton <fighterf(at)ozemail.com.au> |
All,
Interesting, in that the VP Fan was, of course geared down from turbine speeds.
Noticed in the last few weeks, in AW&ST, that there is a reinvention of
this concept of a shrouded or ducted turbo prop, it seems to surface about
every ten years, but so far the cost of engineering complexity has always
cost more than the theoretical savings.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
>
>
>Hi Chris,
>
>Yep, know that one OK.
>
>They actually put Astfan jets on two Turbo Commanders, the one pictured
>being a 680V, serial 1540-6 and the other being a 690A, serial 11240.
>
>Not sure I knew its first flight date though, so could be another useful
>piece inserted into the jigsaw. Wonder just how many more pieces there are
>to go.............................?
>
>Thanks for the heads-up though........much appreciated.
>
>Barry C.
>
>
>
>
> Chris
> Schuermann
>
> To:
> commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent
> by: cc:
>
> owner-commander-list-server@ma Subject:
> Commander-List: Bizarre mod
> tronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
> 29/11/2002
> 15:55
>
> Please respond
> to
>
> commander-list
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Okay guys, take a look at THIS Commander upgrade...
>Barry, you aware of this one?
>
>Chris
>
>http://perso.wanadoo.fr/super-mystere/aah/planche/pages/17.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Johnson" <jktjohnson(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello to all:
My name is Jay Johnson and I'm a new Commander enthusiast. I hope to purchase
an older model in a few years after I learn more about them and get my finances
to match my dreams. I started flying at age 15 and now I am currently a 747
first officer with Japan Airlines. My wife, Katie, and I are busy raising our
five children (ages between 6 yrs. and 5 mos.) in Hawaii.
Although I have never flown in a Commander, I am impressed with what I see. I
owned a Aeronca Champ for several years but with the blessing of our precious
children we have outgrown a two-place airplane. My background includes flying
Air Force aircraft (T-37, T-38, C-5, T-1), general aviation flight instruction
(CFII, MEI), and several attempts at staying alive in a light helicopter (private
license).
Thanks to all of you for the Aero Commander web site and this list. I am gleaning
much information about this fine aircraft; keep up the good work!
Jay Johnson
P.S. Jim Metzger, could you please update my mailing address? Thanks a lot.
68-1699 Nanala Place
Waikoloa, HI 96738
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
In a message dated 11/29/2002 8:39:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jktjohnson(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
> P.S. Jim Metzger, could you please update my mailing address? Thanks a
> lot.
>
> 68-1699 Nanala Place
> Waikoloa, HI 96738
>
Will Do Jay... Thanks!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
This is the last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser. Based on previous
year's percentages of Lister's making a Contribution, this year we are
nearly 40% behind the normal... And I thought all those great gifts would
eke the percentage up past the average a little. Oh well. Maybe people
just don't really mind the flashing banner ads for Viagra, and popups for
X10 minicams...
There's still plenty of time to get your name of the List of
Contributors. I'll probably publish the LOC on Monday night after I
process the checks from the Post Office.
I do want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so
far this year. Your support is greatly appreciated and is what makes the
Lists possible.
How to support your Lists this month: http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/29/02 |
The astazou (did I spell that right??) was the first engine that they ever
put on the BAE J-31. Another name (maybe the parent company?) was Turbo
Meca.
It was a pittiful performer, I've only heard rumors, but H.P. was something
like 450 shaft. Compare that to the 900+ of the TPE 331-10UR's, and I think
you start to see the picture. The original J-31 was limited to 12,500
though, and with the TPE's it went up to 15,212, then finally the J-32 got
almost 1,100 H.P. per side and gross went up to 16.204.
I flew a Jetstream that had been built new as a 12,500 gross weight airplane
with the small engines. It had Garrets as a retro fit, and was limited to
only 14,500 max gross. It was N331J. We called it 31JUNK. O.K. enough
non-Commander babble. I was just trying to remember the H.P. of the Turbo
Meca's, around 450 I think.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: List Report... |
HI MATT..I have been out of twn helping my mother move. I will be returning
mid week an will get my $200 for the group memebers into you. Thanks!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Wall" <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: List Report... |
Come on guys we found a good new home for our email list. Lets help Matt out.
I sent in my $20 bucks which ain't much but if everyone of us that is on the
commander chat list contributes it will make a big difference and show our support!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MarcioK - Introduction |
Hi everybody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: MarcioK - Introduction |
>"Hi everybody"
Hey! a new definition of Introduction.
Tom :)
----- Original Message -----
From: <MarcioK(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: MarcioK - Introduction
>
> Hi everybody
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Tom Fisher
Subject: Tom Fisher's 500B
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca.11.30.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi All,
My name is Jim Crunkleton.
I'm the guy that owns two Aero Commanders. A 520 with Cliff Atkins and a
560F with Joe Shepherd, and I am currently finishing a RV-8. ( It will
fly on Thursday....I just don't know which one)
Most of my time is in multi-engine jets, but I started life as a "Flap".
(Thats a 'Flipping Light Airplane Pilot, as opposed to a "Pimp", which
is a "Pompous, Incompetent, Military Pilot". :-) I spent 25 years at
Eastern Airlines, and the last 7 at ValuJet/AirTran Airlines. (Only 2
years six monthes to go!)
After 40 years as a professional pilot ( 37 1/2 years as a part 121
pilot) I've amassed between 20 and 30 thousand hours in all types of
aircraft. I don't really know the exact figure, but then again, I don't
really care. I could list all of the different aircraft types I've
flown, but Joe Shepherd and Cliff Atkins would just show me up, as
between the two of them, they've probably flown every model aircraft
(civilian) thats ever been built!
I live in an airplane hangar in Senoia, GA. with my beautiful bride, Ms.
Donna, We are current members, in good standing, of the 'Locust Wing" of
the TCFG. (Check with Milt, Chris S., Joe, and Cliff for the details.)
I flew my first Commander at the tender age of 18 ( a 520 serial # 147)
and have been enamored with them ever since.
Thanks to Chris Schuermann, I.ve been able to meet and talk with other
Commander enthusiasts, most recently at the latest Commander gathering
at Columbia. (Thank you Jim Bob for a great occasion.)
Crunk (The old gray-haired fart)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi all,
I forgot to mention that JET PAUL is also an owner in the 520 with Cliff
and I.
Please don't hit me again Paul.
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List Digest Format!! |
Dear Listers,
I've just finished up some awesome code that will completely change your
thinking about how email Digests should work and look! Yeah, I'm kind of
proud of it, that is true... :-)
What you'll be getting in the new List Digest message is the
following: The main message will contain the new text-based index I
introduced a few weeks back. But here's where things get
different... Instead of simply including all of the day's posts in line
within the message, there will now be included two enclosures - one with a
HTML encoded version of the Digests, and another with the usual text-only
version of the Digests.
I think you're really going to like the new HTML enclosure of the
Digests. All of the Indexes at the top are now hyperlinked to the actual
posts and there are hyperlinks at the top of each post that will:
o Take you back to the Index
o Take you to the next post
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You'll have to check it out to appreciate the full goodness of the new
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The text-only version is basically exactly the same data that has been
normally sent in line within the message.
You'll also note that the filenames of the enclosures are such that they
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Hope you enjoy the new Digest format!!!
Oh, and don't forget about the Fund Raiser! :-)
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Buddy Windham <bw_cycon(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
Hey there you old grey haired fart,
Jim can you advise what true airspeeds, power setting,
fuel flow your f model achieves. If you have a gps in
the ship then the ground speed at altitude would be
nice. I'm looking for more speed than my e model.
Please advise plus's and minus's of your f model.
Thanks a lot. See you in Ohio next year.
--- Jim Crunkleton wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
> My name is Jim Crunkleton.
> I'm the guy that owns two Aero Commanders. A 520
> with Cliff Atkins and a
> 560F with Joe Shepherd, and I am currently finishing
> a RV-8. ( It will
> fly on Thursday....I just don't know which one)
> Most of my time is in multi-engine jets, but I
> started life as a "Flap".
> (Thats a 'Flipping Light Airplane Pilot, as opposed
> to a "Pimp", which
> is a "Pompous, Incompetent, Military Pilot". :-) I
> spent 25 years at
> Eastern Airlines, and the last 7 at ValuJet/AirTran
> Airlines. (Only 2
> years six monthes to go!)
> After 40 years as a professional pilot ( 37 1/2
> years as a part 121
> pilot) I've amassed between 20 and 30 thousand hours
> in all types of
> aircraft. I don't really know the exact figure, but
> then again, I don't
> really care. I could list all of the different
> aircraft types I've
> flown, but Joe Shepherd and Cliff Atkins would just
> show me up, as
> between the two of them, they've probably flown
> every model aircraft
> (civilian) thats ever been built!
> I live in an airplane hangar in Senoia, GA. with my
> beautiful bride, Ms.
> Donna, We are current members, in good standing, of
> the 'Locust Wing" of
> the TCFG. (Check with Milt, Chris S., Joe, and Cliff
> for the details.)
> I flew my first Commander at the tender age of 18 (
> a 520 serial # 147)
> and have been enamored with them ever since.
> Thanks to Chris Schuermann, I.ve been able to meet
> and talk with other
> Commander enthusiasts, most recently at the latest
> Commander gathering
> at Columbia. (Thank you Jim Bob for a great
> occasion.)
> Crunk (The old gray-haired fart)
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Buddy Windham
Cycon Enterprises, Inc.
General Contractors/Construction Management/Design Build
0-608 Quincy Street S.W.
Grandville, Michigan 49418
616 896-6488 office
616 896-6490 fax
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ProgSearch(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Questions regarding the 680FL |
Hi Listers,
Was hoping to draw upon your vast knowledge of Commanders. Anyone have any
idea how much it cost to operate a 680FL per hour. I have been told that the
maint. cost on a 680FL is about three times what it is on a 500B. I have been
told that the supercharged 540 is just a problem waiting to happen. I have
been told to plan on working three hours for every hour it is flown. As you
can see the gentleman was not kind to the airplane or its engine. Any 680FL
owners care to elaborate?
I was told by one freight operator that they replaced more cylinders on a two
680FL's in a year than they replaced on 30 500B's. Anyone had similar
experiences?
I was also told about a freight 680FL that took off from Wichita with no
freight and half fuel. He lost an engine just after rotating and managed to
get the engine feathered. However, he was only able to get about 100 fpm
after cleaning the aircraft up. He landed without incident. The pilot stated
that had he been at gross weight he didn't believe he would have gained any
altitude. I thought there was a design performance criteria that required
this bird to get at least 130 fpm single engine at gross weight at 5000 ft
PSA?
I am asking because I am considering the purchase of a few 680FL's to use in
a 135 operation. I welcome all your advice, opinions, and experiences.
Kevin Coons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fran Myers" <fmyers(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Questions regarding the 680FL |
I don't know about the rest, but the regs say 50' per minute climb at
5000'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
> Jim can you advise what true airspeeds, power setting,
> fuel flow your f model achieves. If you have a gps in
> the ship then the ground speed at altitude would be
> nice. I'm looking for more speed than my e model.
> Please advise plus's and minus's of your f model.
> Thanks a lot. See you in Ohio next year.
I smell a good deal coming on a "cream puff" 560E in Michigan.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
If he sells the 560E, I bet he buys it back at auction!!!!!!!!!!
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Introduction
|
| > Jim can you advise what true airspeeds, power setting,
| > fuel flow your f model achieves. If you have a gps in
| > the ship then the ground speed at altitude would be
| > nice. I'm looking for more speed than my e model.
| > Please advise plus's and minus's of your f model.
| > Thanks a lot. See you in Ohio next year.
|
|
| I smell a good deal coming on a "cream puff" 560E in Michigan.
|
| bilbo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
In a message dated 12/01/02 04:38:00 Pacific Standard Time,
ProgSearch(at)aol.com writes:
> I thought there was a design performance criteria that required
> this bird to get at least 130 fpm single engine at gross weight at 5000 ft
> PSA?
>
> I am asking because I am considering the purchase of a few 680FL's to use
> in
> a 135 operation. I welcome all your advice, opinions, and experiences.
>
Kevin,
Lots to say on this topic, little of it conclusive. First off, there's a few
FARs getting scrambled here. The 130'/nm alludes to second segment climb
gradient required of FAR 25 (transport category) aircraft.
You need to study FAR 23.66, 23.67, 23.68 for all the mind-numbing
requirements. I'll distill it down: a recip twin over 6000 lbs needs a
"positive rate of climb" at 5000' standard altitude. 50' per minute is a
pubic hair more than level flight and thus "positive"...
The fact that one Freighter claimed they replaced cylinders at a frequent
interval and one of those pilots claimed substandard performance under One
Engine Inoperative conditions suggests that beast had cylinders burning fuel
but not making power.
Cost of operation? I have no clue as I haven't operated an -FL for longer
than the statute of limitations for most crimes, but here is the down side:
IN MY OPINION you are locked into one engine shop because they have the
knowledge, parts for gear boxes and the only all-mighty test bench for the
Simmonds fuel injection system.
Fuel flow at 65% (+/-) power is going to be 45 gph, way more than an AC500B.
But ...
Short of a turbine powered airplane, I don't think you're going to find the
cabin volume and lift ability in any other plane, except perhaps an even more
rare Beech QueenAir 80, but that uses a Simmonds fuel unit and does not have
Commander systems -- or a Cessna 404. (And the wings are in the wrong place
on both of those products)
Airframe maintenance should not be more than any other model Commander.
Engine maintenance will have the gear box and the Simmonds as additional
costs.
Fuel flow on the IGSO-540 is a worthy topic. I (used to) teach lean-of-peak
operation, per Lycoming's own graphs. I know that Suburban Airlines came to
the conclusion that this engine was built for a much higher lead content fuel
than we have today and went to 150 degrees rich of peak for valve guide
lubrication to compensate for low lead fuel.
They were the fleet operator and I have to salute their experience.
We have several members of this email net who operate the IGSO-540 so I hope
they'll pitch in with their current experience.
Moe? Capn' Sprayberry? Ricardo?
Is your FAR 135 use of the 680FL for freight or pax?
Wing Commander Gordon
PS: This is the current version of FAR 23. I don't have the 1960s version
handy, which would apply to the 680FL's type certificate.
=A7 23.67 Climb: One engine inoperative.
. (b) For normal, utility, and acrobatic category reciprocating
engine-powered airplanes of more than 6,000 pounds maximum weight, and
turbine engine-powered airplanes in the normal, utility, and acrobatic
category --
(1) The steady gradient of climb at an altitude of 400 feet above the takeoff
must be measurably positive with the --
(i) Critical engine inoperative and its propeller in the minimum drag
position;
(ii) Remaining engine(s) at takeoff power;
(iii) Landing gear retracted;
(iv) Wing flaps in the takeoff position(s); and
(v) Climb speed equal to that achieved at 50 feet in the demonstration of=20=A7
23.53.
(2) The steady gradient of climb must not be less than 0.75 percent at an
altitude of 1,500 feet above the takeoff surface, or landing surface, as
appropriate, with the --
(i) Critical engine inoperative and its propeller in the minimum drag
position;
(ii) Remaining engine(s) at not more than maximum continuous power;
(iii) Landing gear retracted;
(iv) Wing flaps retracted; and
(v) Climb speed not less than 1.2 VS1.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Windham" <bw_cycon(at)yahoo.com> |
Now, now lets not jump the gun yet, a cream puff absolutely, a good deal
is another question.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bow
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Introduction
> Jim can you advise what true airspeeds, power setting,
> fuel flow your f model achieves. If you have a gps in
> the ship then the ground speed at altitude would be
> nice. I'm looking for more speed than my e model.
> Please advise plus's and minus's of your f model.
> Thanks a lot. See you in Ohio next year.
I smell a good deal coming on a "cream puff" 560E in Michigan.
bilbo
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
----- Original Message ----- I am currently a 747 first officer with Japan
Airlines.
Hi Jay,
Do you know John Deakin..?? He recentl;y retired from Japan Airlines. I
have flown as 1st officer with him numerous times in a Martin 404 (to
several airshows in California and to Oshkosh & back)...really had a blast.
Enjoyed flying with John alot, and learned even more about how to fly "big
airplanes".
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
Hello Kevin,
I have owned a 680F now for almost 4 years. I have it maintained by Morris
Kernick (Yoda). Engines were almost "0" time at purchase. Except for some
pesky oil leaks from the top of the engines (through the case halves), the
supercharged 540's have been trouble free for the past 500 hours. (knock on
wood...) I am VERY careful about power settings, shock cooling, and RPM
(don't want to have the props driving the engines...tears up the gears)
Compression has been good at each annual, oil is clean, and Morris says the
engines are in excellent condition.
Good luck.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: <ProgSearch(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Was hoping to draw upon your vast knowledge of Commanders. Anyone have any
> idea how much it cost to operate a 680FL per hour. I have been told that
the
> maint. cost on a 680FL is about three times what it is on a 500B. I have
been
> told that the supercharged 540 is just a problem waiting to happen. I have
> been told to plan on working three hours for every hour it is flown. As
you
> can see the gentleman was not kind to the airplane or its engine. Any
680FL
> owners care to elaborate?
>
> I was told by one freight operator that they replaced more cylinders on a
two
> 680FL's in a year than they replaced on 30 500B's. Anyone had similar
> experiences?
>
> I was also told about a freight 680FL that took off from Wichita with no
> freight and half fuel. He lost an engine just after rotating and managed
to
> get the engine feathered. However, he was only able to get about 100 fpm
> after cleaning the aircraft up. He landed without incident. The pilot
stated
> that had he been at gross weight he didn't believe he would have gained
any
> altitude. I thought there was a design performance criteria that required
> this bird to get at least 130 fpm single engine at gross weight at 5000 ft
> PSA?
>
> I am asking because I am considering the purchase of a few 680FL's to use
in
> a 135 operation. I welcome all your advice, opinions, and experiences.
>
> Kevin Coons
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
----- Original Message -----
> idea how much it cost to operate a 680FL per hour. I have been told that
the
Almost forget the most important part...how much does it cost..?? Fuel
consumption at 75% power runs between 50 and 60 gals per hour, depending on
leg length, climb, etc. My annuals have averaged about $3500 to $4000, and
misc maintenance during the year runs about $1,000. Insurance has been
about $3800 per year for me, with about 2,000 hours total time, 500 hrs
multi, instrument, commercial, and CFI.
Hope that helps.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
In a message dated 12/01/02 15:35:23 Pacific Standard Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> I have owned a 680F now for almost 4 years
I KNEW there was another IGSO-540 guy on the list! How could I forget Randy
Dettmer and his beautiful 680F?
Thanks for posting, Randy.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hi, my name is Barry.... |
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
...and I'm a Commanderholic.
Let's see....I was born in Orange, CA in 1968. Yes, that makes me 34
and admittedly still wet behind the ears, especially in this group.
Growing up I lived in about as good a place as possible for a kid to get
hooked on aviation, particularly the military side. Our house was
located just outside the "Browning Corridor" for the Tustin USMC Helo
base. CH-46's and -53's flew over my house every day. We were also
under one of the departure routes of USMCAS El Toro. My dad took me to
an airshow there when I was 7 and that was that. By age 11 I could tell
the difference between a -53 and a -53 Echo based on the sound
signature, and could also tell an F-4 from an A-4 the same way. The F-4
was my favorite military aircraft until El Toro got the second active
duty F/A-18 squadron. I used to drive my car down to the base as a
teenager and park myself at the departure end of the runway and wait for
the jets to come and go.
I was offered a chance to get my PPL by my father when I graduated high
school, but turned it down in favor of a kick butt stereo system. May
seem crazy, but I was pursuing a professional tennis career at the time
and knew I would not be able to maintain my currency. Speaking of
tennis, funny how life is. I was hit by a tennis ball at age 11 and
sustained a torn retina. I was told many times subsequently that the
injury meant I would be unqualified for military flight training,
otherwise I might just be flying Hornets today because, as it turns out,
my injury would not have disqualified me in 1994 when I ended my tennis
career. I did not find that out until two years ago. Oh well.
Growing up I got to ride right seat in the company Cessna 441 and then
Piper Chyenne II. I'll never forget the low-level we did up the coast
of southeast Alaska when I was 18. 50 feet off the water at 200+ knots
was quite an adrenaline rush at the time. Of course I had no
comprehension of fuel burn in those days, so it was just WAAAAY cool! I
always knew I'd get my ticket someday, though. That chance came about
in 1998.
Summer of 1998 I returned to SoCal from Salt Lake City after a 6 year
stint in sports broadcasting to become the marketing director for an
upstart medical device company called Hancock Jaffe Labs. It was a
chance to continue on my dad's legacy (he invented the first biological
artificial heart valve in...1968, a big year for him!) and change to a
more secure profession. As soon as I got settled I visited the local
flight schools and chose Sunrise Aviation out of John Wayne airport
(SNA). Three days before I took my private checkride, I took possession
of a Nanchang CJ-6A that was still in the crate from China. I did not
get into aviation to drive bug smashers, I got into it to fly
warbirds...at the time it was my goal to fly a P-51. After looking at
T-6's and T-34's, I settled on the CJ because, well, it is a better
performing airplane in all ways and costs pennies on the dollar to both
acquire and operate compared to those two.
Three days later, at 43 hours TT, I passed my PPL checkride, and had my
aerobatic and tailwheel endorsement at 60 hours. At 70 hours TT my CJ
was looking like it was going to take years (not months) to restore, so
I bought a very basic flying CJ to keep me entertained while the
"project" was coming together. It was a great move as I have over 300
hours in that thing and my project is still not finished....although we
paint this week and the DAR comes out at the end of next week, so if you
know of anybody looking for a really nice CJ, let me know! .....I
digress.
OK, Barry, enough of this military wannabe stuff, what about
Commanders? Right. Almost 3 years ago now, I met Deborah. We are now
newly weds of just over a year and expecting our first child any day
now. When I first met Deborah it was quite apparent she was the one.
She also has a 7 year old so flitting about the country in a CJ-6A was
not in the cards, unless we hung Alec on the wing and I thought that
might put a strain on our relationship. :) So, I started looking for
a....bug smasher! After a little bit of research, I decided that a
light twin with reasonable SE performance was the ticket. Enter
Commanders. Enter 680E.
I had always loved the look of Commanders, and through Chris' web site
and the commander chat list, I just became more enamored with the old
gals. I took 50% ownership of 680E in May of 2001 and 100% ownership in
June of this year (which is another story for another time because this
is supposed to be an uplifting tale, right?). Ironically as it is, I
just determined that somewhere over the Nevada desert with WCG in my
right seat I recently surpassed 100 hours in Commanders. I love these
airplanes and am not comfortable about carting my family around in
anything else in it's class. Right now 680E is for sale as I don't
anticipate much flying in the next year, but if it sells I next see
myself in a nice 500B. If all works out well with the business, I'd
like to upgrade to a turbo prop - a Turbo Commander, of course!
My flying career in a nutshell is:
SEL, MEL, Instrument 650TT, 350ish in CJ's (100 of that in formation,
50+ acro), 120 ME, 15 in Decathlons, and the rest in 172's. I'm
currently working on my Commercial and CFI ratings. Highlights include
a 3-ship *low* pass at the Leeward Ranch Warbird Flyout in front of my
compatriots (little did they know my throttle/prop quadrant froze on
climb out and I had to land at another airport using the mag switch for
power adjustments!), being part of the largest ever Yak/CJ formation at
Sun 'n Fun (24 ships) that same year, and passing my Instrument check
ride!
My aviation dreams:
To fly a Dash-10 Commander for business, a Hawker Sea Fury for pleasure,
and an Su-26 to make my eyeballs pop out of my head. When I retire I
want to fly an Albatross around the world with my family.
My beliefs:
I believe in God the Father, in his son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy
Ghost.
I believe that you cannot properly take care of business outside of the
home unless you first take care of business inside the home.
I believe in conservative ideals and that liberal ideology will ruin
this country, as it has so many others. Liberal ideals are not to be
kept in check, they are to be defeated.
I believe aviation is to be protected as passionately as my conservative
ideals.
I believe that mean people suck. Terrorists suck even more.
I believe that self righteous people are dangerous, especially in
aviation.
I believe that there are good people in aviation, and bad people that
will really get you P.O.'d.
I believe that it's possible to have a good time without having fun, and
vice versa. I try to keep a balance. :)
I believe that it is not possible for me to be the person I am without
my loving wife at my side.
Chuck Yeager is my aviation hero.
Restoring airplanes isn't all it's cracked up to be.
The F-20 was the best plane never built.
The Su-31 is unbeatable in ACM.
Clevelands are better than Goodyears.
Real men fly geared motors.
Grey davis is a communist.
There are those that have and those that will.
I believe that I went to Game 7 of the World Series. Though I still
can't believe the Angels won!
And, I believe that without people like the ones on this list, flying
wouldn't be nearly as much fun.
Well, that's about all I have. Have a nice Holiday season and fly
safely!
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
Good on ya, Tom. Hopefully more people will take advantage of this easy
to use feature!
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New, NEW List Digest Format... |
Dear Listers,
Okay, so I woke up this morning to an email box full of hate-mail about the
new List Digest format. I thought it was cool, but I guess not... Still,
it seemed like too much code to just throw out, so I've modified things a
little and I'm hoping everyone will be happy with the new, NEW
arrangement. Here's how it works now:
o The HTML and TXT enclosures aren't sent in the Digest any longer.
o URL Links to the HTML and TEXT versions of the day's Digests
will be found at the top of the digest email.
o The new Digest Index will be found at the top of the digest email
following the URL Links.
o The full digest text will then be found in the email as before.
o All of the previous Digests will now be available on line. The
URL for the main digest page is:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
From here, you can drill into the specific List Digest of interest.
o Both the HTML and TXT versions of the Digests can be found here.
o The List Message Trailer will contain a Link directly to the given
o Right now there's only one Digest shown, but each day there will
be another. They will be sorted with the newest at the top.
Left-hand column is the HTML version, right-hand column the TXT
version.
A couple people also complained that some messages in the HTML version were
just one long line that went off to the right forever and they hated
that. Come to think of it, this is also an issue in the Search Engine,
List Browser, and Archive Browser. Some email programs don't included hard
Returns at regular intervals and that's what causes this. I wrote a
program tonight that will automatically chop these long lines into 78
characters or less and wrap the rest of the line. After tonight's Archive
transfer, all of the Searching and Browsing tools shouldn't have the
problem any longer either. Woo hoo!
So, back to the new Digest format. What people are going to see in the
new, NEW Digest is a bit of verbiage at the top of the email describing the
URL links to the HTML and TXT on-line versions, followed by the Links,
followed by the day's Index, followed by the day's messages just as
before. Lines longer than 78 characters will also be automatically wrapped
onto the next line.
Hopefully this will be a more pleasing arrangement for everyone. Sorry to
get everybody so stirred up over the format change!
The List of Contributors is coming out tomorrow night... Still time to
make that Contribution! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[203.220.234.151])
Subject: Commander-List: Time for another Ossie to weigh in!
From: Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
G'day all!
Time to add my fashionably late little bit!
Greetings from Oz...
Commanders first came into my life during the mid seventies! At the time I
was ploughing through my PPL and based at Essendon Airport...Melbourne's
Downtown Airport in Victoria.
I had the great fortune to be mentored in the Commander department by the
late Stan Tayler and I enjoyed many right hand seat sorties in 560E VH-EXV.
Stan and I perfected a great excuse for downing ales in the Cockpit Bar at
Essendon...we just wanted to miss peak hour traffic!!
The taste has never faded and while I have flown others in the family; 500A,
680, 680E, 680FL and 680FLP the 560E is my favourite.
The 680FLP (sports car) time was most memorable...flying in VH-DCE out of
Essendon and into a semi-sealed strip at Toolern Vale (just 9 air minutes)
west. This was great fun but did little to preserve the longevity of
VH-DCE...I can feel our good Wing Commander wincing!!
Some of you will remember the engineering survey I did on this aircraft a
few years back.
At Hillsboro last year, I was entirely humbled when I had the opportunity to
talk at length to Dick Wartinger about the 560E...(the 5 minutes turned into
2 hours)...he told me that in his opinion it was the most sought after
Commander...he renewed my resolve to purchase one of these some day. My
homework on the type continues.
Back to my story...
I completed my twin rating in a beat up old Aztec and then moved around
different types, building up my hours and experience. In the late seventies
I had the unique opportunity to build up some considerable time in the
Bristol Freighter (this really was noisy stuff...you don't know you are
flying unless the seat-rails let go in one of these on take-off!...and yes
Keith the wings were in the right place on these old dinosaurs). Last I
heard, there is still one flying out of Terrace in British Columbia. In
those days I worked for a freight company called Air Express. When this
company folded in 1979 I changed ends of the airport and cut my teeth on
DC3's, mostly with SETAIR.
Foolishly I bought shares in the company (read two P&W 1830's) and my
aviation career soon after crashed and burned, when in turn SETAIR perished
in 1984.
Over time I have maintained my love for Commanders and it was great to come
across Chris on the internet a few years back, prior to the list first
starting...and the rest is history.
Chris' great article on "Why not to buy that Commander" has been a great
reality check for me from time to time...please take time to read these
words.
The highlight of 2001 for me was the time I spent at Hillsboro getting to
know many of you guys...N222JS is a great machine to get to know...talk to a
guy called Jimbob!!
Commanders are alive and well in Oz. My colleague Richard Thompson is doing
a fantastic renovation on his 680E VH-CAX, and a small number of operators
have specialised on the Shrike with just a few 500A, 560E and 690A/B
operators. And we do have a sole 685...just for Milt!
Across the Tasman Sea we have a straight 500 and a 680F flying in NZ.
My sights are set on procuring a 560E in the not too distant future.
These days I am based in remote Oz, in Katherine, Northern Territory (or the
TOPEND as we call it) and maintain single engine time only...I have become
dangerous around Twins...but there is always tomorrow!
Cheers and ciders
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
Actually, I sent the image to test out the site because I was looking for
the images that were on the old site.
T...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
>
> Good on ya, Tom. Hopefully more people will take advantage of this easy
> to use feature!
>
> Barry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com |
PST
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: Commander-List: Archive
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:12:42 -0800
Matt,
I uploaded a 10mb text file 'mail.txt' into pub/incoming on your ftp site.
It contains a single file with 6,465 messages separated by a line of
if you need to separate them.
Let me know if this is workable.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com |
PST
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: Re: Commander-List: [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:27:57 -0800
Matt,
The archive that I sent you, has been stripped of attachments because in the
majority of cases they were just email messages that appeared in the body of
other emial messages anyway.
Now that Tom mentioned wanting to see images from the old list, it dawned on
me that I have those too and I can upload them for you also.
Let me know what it is you want me to do.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
>
> Actually, I sent the image to test out the site because I was looking for
> the images that were on the old site.
> T...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share
> Available!
>
>
> >
> > Good on ya, Tom. Hopefully more people will take advantage of this easy
> > to use feature!
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Hi Nico,
Go ahead and zip all of the images up and up load them to the same
place. I'll make one big Photoshare out of them...
Matt
At 08:53 AM 12/2/2002 Monday, you wrote:
>
>
>Matt,
>The archive that I sent you, has been stripped of attachments because in the
>majority of cases they were just email messages that appeared in the body of
>other emial messages anyway.
>Now that Tom mentioned wanting to see images from the old list, it dawned on
>me that I have those too and I can upload them for you also.
>Let me know what it is you want me to do.
>Thanks
>Nico
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share
>Available!
>
>
>
> >
> > Actually, I sent the image to test out the site because I was looking for
> > the images that were on the old site.
> > T...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share
> > Available!
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > > Good on ya, Tom. Hopefully more people will take advantage of this easy
> > > to use feature!
> > >
> > > Barry
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All:
We're new to the TCFG and this email list. We have enjoyed reading all
your emails and we'd like to thank Jim for inviting us to join, and we
thought introductions were in order.
We're known as AirMatrix: A matrix being a surrounding within which
something new develops. Accordingly, one of our ongoing projects is the
development of the Router Reference Implementation (RRI) for the
Aeronautical Telecommunications Network Systems, Inc. (ATNSI), including
the much touted Voice Data Link (VDL), which should be reaching your
cockpits sometime around 2008.
On a more Commander-interesting note: We are the proud owners of a 1955
vintage 560A. The aircraft is just finishing a lengthy major overhaul
and repair. It is expected to join service as a special missions and
flight test platform sometime in the early spring of next year.
Everything on the plane has been zero-timed and we have made many
interesting repairs and modifications, like a modular instrument panel
and avionics upgrade, to mention but a few. We believe that every
Commander owner will find many interesting things to inspect and talk
about.
Therefore, we would like to extend an invitation to all TCFG members to
visit us before the bird goes into service. We will gladly provide free
hangar and tug service, and a bite to eat. We are on the west side - in
the new hangar complex - of Arlington Municipal Airport (AWO). Call
ahead and we'll send a follow-me to great you.
Best to you all,
Bill Williams
AirMatrix
Arlington Municipal Airport, Hangar D
17705 49th Place N.E.
Arlington, WA 98223-7898
Tel: 360-435-7343
Fax: 360-435-8193
Email: billw@air-matrix.com
Web Site: www.air-matrix.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bill et al,
Myself and Chris Haag dropped into the facility of AirMatrix last June, and were
fortunate to catch Bill around. Their 560A is indeed a fine-looking Commander,
and as Bill has invited you all to drop in, I hope some of you do!
See you again next year Bill!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Williams" <billw@air-matrix.com>
Subject: Commander-List: INVITATION
|
| Hi All:
|
| We're new to the TCFG and this email list. We have enjoyed reading all
| your emails and we'd like to thank Jim for inviting us to join, and we
| thought introductions were in order.
|
| We're known as AirMatrix: A matrix being a surrounding within which
| something new develops. Accordingly, one of our ongoing projects is the
| development of the Router Reference Implementation (RRI) for the
| Aeronautical Telecommunications Network Systems, Inc. (ATNSI), including
| the much touted Voice Data Link (VDL), which should be reaching your
| cockpits sometime around 2008.
|
| On a more Commander-interesting note: We are the proud owners of a 1955
| vintage 560A. The aircraft is just finishing a lengthy major overhaul
| and repair. It is expected to join service as a special missions and
| flight test platform sometime in the early spring of next year.
| Everything on the plane has been zero-timed and we have made many
| interesting repairs and modifications, like a modular instrument panel
| and avionics upgrade, to mention but a few. We believe that every
| Commander owner will find many interesting things to inspect and talk
| about.
|
| Therefore, we would like to extend an invitation to all TCFG members to
| visit us before the bird goes into service. We will gladly provide free
| hangar and tug service, and a bite to eat. We are on the west side - in
| the new hangar complex - of Arlington Municipal Airport (AWO). Call
| ahead and we'll send a follow-me to great you.
|
| Best to you all,
| Bill Williams
| AirMatrix
| Arlington Municipal Airport, Hangar D
| 17705 49th Place N.E.
| Arlington, WA 98223-7898
| Tel: 360-435-7343
| Fax: 360-435-8193
| Email: billw@air-matrix.com
| Web Site: www.air-matrix.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
Barry et al:
Thank you for the kind words. We remember your visit with fondness and
inspiration. We look forward to seeing you again this coming summer and
we'll take you for a ride in the 560A.
Best Regards,
Bill Williams
AirMatrix
17705 49th Place N.E., Hangar D
Arlington, WA 98223-7898
tel: 360-435-7343
fax: 360-435-8193
email: billw@air-matrix.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barshalom(at)aol.com |
OK Guys,
All along I have heard that the 500B is THE AeroCommander...no geared engine
problems...etc.
Now, everyone is talking 560E.
So, how about a pro's and con's comparison for us neophytes?
Bill in TN
AC 500B N69PT
By the way, JB, did you get my application for TCFG membership?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Campbell" <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
What's wrong with geared engines? Mine are smooth and reliable, relatively
inexpensive to operate,and dont have a crank AD.
Bruce Campbell
AC 52 N4186B
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barshalom(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
>
> OK Guys,
>
> All along I have heard that the 500B is THE AeroCommander...no geared
engine
> problems...etc.
>
> Now, everyone is talking 560E.
>
> So, how about a pro's and con's comparison for us neophytes?
>
> Bill in TN
> AC 500B N69PT
>
> By the way, JB, did you get my application for TCFG membership?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
Barshalom(at)aol.com wrote:
> All along I have heard that the 500B is THE AeroCommander...no geared engine
> problems...etc.
>
> Now, everyone is talking 560E.
>
> So, how about a pro's and con's comparison for us neophytes?
Since I've answered this question about a zillion times over the last 10
years, I'll take a shot at a short answer:
Geared engine Pros:
Significantly more static thrust giving much better takeoff, and climb
performance.
Typically smoother than non-geared alternatives.
Turns a larger, more efficient prop at lower RPM - less prop noise also.
Durable and reliable with remarkably few ADs
Sounds incredible with straight stacks and augmentor tubes :-)
Cons:
Unsupported by manufacturer - parts becoming limited
Lower TBO (1200-1400 hrs vs 1600-2000hrs for non geared)
Limited number of shops capable of overhauling
Some unusual accessories which are hard to come by (bendix pressure
carbs, Simmonds FI, low tension mags, odd accessory drives, etc -
depending on model)
Splined shaft prop mount with only one or two prop options depending on
engine model.
Require more care in operation than non-geared models
As of this time, you CAN acquire all required parts, get good overhauls,
and have a solid future use from the geared Lycoming engines. A geared
engine is not your best bet for a high use airplane such as a cargo
hauler as the economics simply favor a direct drive engine. For a
personal chariot, they do provide unbeatable performance and additional
safety in a single-engine environment. ...and they just sound GREAT!
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
Wow Chris...you just described my 680F perfectly. I especially like the
part about the "personal chariot"...one that is pulled by 760 horses.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
>
>
> Barshalom(at)aol.com wrote:
> > All along I have heard that the 500B is THE AeroCommander...no geared
engine
> > problems...etc.
> >
> > Now, everyone is talking 560E.
> >
> > So, how about a pro's and con's comparison for us neophytes?
>
>
> Since I've answered this question about a zillion times over the last 10
> years, I'll take a shot at a short answer:
>
> Geared engine Pros:
> Significantly more static thrust giving much better takeoff, and climb
> performance.
> Typically smoother than non-geared alternatives.
> Turns a larger, more efficient prop at lower RPM - less prop noise also.
> Durable and reliable with remarkably few ADs
> Sounds incredible with straight stacks and augmentor tubes :-)
>
> Cons:
> Unsupported by manufacturer - parts becoming limited
> Lower TBO (1200-1400 hrs vs 1600-2000hrs for non geared)
> Limited number of shops capable of overhauling
> Some unusual accessories which are hard to come by (bendix pressure
> carbs, Simmonds FI, low tension mags, odd accessory drives, etc -
> depending on model)
> Splined shaft prop mount with only one or two prop options depending on
> engine model.
> Require more care in operation than non-geared models
>
>
> As of this time, you CAN acquire all required parts, get good overhauls,
> and have a solid future use from the geared Lycoming engines. A geared
> engine is not your best bet for a high use airplane such as a cargo
> hauler as the economics simply favor a direct drive engine. For a
> personal chariot, they do provide unbeatable performance and additional
> safety in a single-engine environment. ...and they just sound GREAT!
>
> Chris Schuermann
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David & Miriam Talley <dtalley1(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Cheap Fuel in San Antonio (That's TEXAS!) |
Commander Drivers (and anything else that flies)...
I'm posting this latest message from the T89 airport "coordinator" for your
pleasure:
Note from Castroville, Texas (T89)
I wanted to take this opportunity to thank those of you who have been
purchasing fuel here at the Airport. With your strong support, we sold over
11,300 gallons of fuel for the month of November. With this continued high
volume, we will be able to keep our prices very low. Just as a note, we
still have our prices set at $1.64 for 100LL and $1.65 for JetA. Please
help us keep our prices low by telling your fellow pilots about us. THANKS!!!
Tim Fousse
Airport Coordinator
Castroville Municipal Airport
T89- Castroville is right outside of San Antonio (South, Southwest). Oh!...
Remember to "Keep the oily side down!"
David Talley
San Antonio, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
one that is pulled by 760 horses.
As one who ownes a Quarter horse and an Apendix horse, that (760 horses) is
a BUNCH of horse #$%. We're talking tonage here.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
I wonder if you're paying more $$$ in hay than I am paying in 100LL for the
year..?? My fuel bill sometimes runs over $1,000 per month...ouch.
RD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
>
> one that is pulled by 760 horses.
>
>
> As one who ownes a Quarter horse and an Apendix horse, that (760 horses)
is
> a BUNCH of horse #$%. We're talking tonage here.
>
> bilbo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
> I wonder if you're paying more $$$ in hay than I am paying in 100LL for
the
> year..?? My fuel bill sometimes runs over $1,000 per month...ouch.
Well Randy the horses eat, and crap whether you "run" them or
not($600.00/month for 2). Mine(500A) has been broken in TLH for a month and
it wont be moved until the 14th of Dec. It isn't burning andy fuel but the
insurance is still going on. That's about $450.00 for 6 weeks.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
In a message dated 12/02/02 18:54:37 Pacific Standard Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> Well Randy the horses eat, and crap whether you "run" them or
> not($600.00/month for 2).
Bilbo,
You own 2 horses AND an airplane?
Next you'll tell us you own a boat and have a wife.
Poor lad. (Literally?)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Commanderfans,
Is there a shop or center where they have brake
pads/linings for a 680 and a 680E in stock.
And for a normal price.
I need 6 on each side so total 24.
Contact with a shop: factory can deliver those after
22 weeks.???
Another shop was trying to (over)charge $ 185 a pad.
If "they" are trying this way for us to maintain AC's
it will be the wrong one.
Frits Abbing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
> Next you'll tell us you own a boat and have a wife.
Yup.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Anybody want a B-727?? CHEAP!!! |
Here is what appears to be the real deal. Or maybe it's a scam?? I might
like to live in a 727 for only 65,000 bucks!! If I ever get divorced again I
am all over this one. Check it out at Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789717707
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barshalom(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
OK Chris,
Here's another question. Say you have IO 540's that are ready for major
overhaul/replacement. Is there an alternative to re-build or factory re-man
that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns associated
with turbo- or super-charged engines.
I have heard of Colemill, Mr. RPM, etc., conversions or replacements and have
also heard of a "pancake" 8 cyl and also an automotive V-8 replacement
engines for the 500 series AC. Your thoughts?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barshalom(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
bilbo,
What is an "Apendix" horse?
Bill in TN
N69PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Apendix horse |
| From: | Barry.Collman(at)airclaims.co.uk |
03/12/2002 15:34:18
Hi gang!
An Appendix is something found at the back of a book.
So my guess, and admittedly, that's all it is :-) is that:
An Apendix horse is one which always finishes last in a race, i.e. at the
back.
Aren't you all glad you're saddled with me!
I'll stop now before I really get the bit between my teeth!
Best Regards,
Barry
Barshalom(at)aol.com
Sent by: To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
owner-commander-list-server@ma cc:
tronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List:
560E vs 500B
03/12/2002 15:27
Please respond to
commander-list
bilbo,
What is an "Apendix" horse?
Bill in TN
N69PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
Barshalom(at)aol.com wrote:
> Is there an alternative to re-build or factory re-man
> that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
There are really only two options on the market right now: The MRRPM
IO-720 conversion (400hp) and the Merlyn package (350hp). The Orenda V8
just isn't available at this time, but hopefully will be some time in
the future. The Colemill package is a 300hp Continental. Colemill no
longer does this mod nor would the performance by close to a geared 540.
If you're talking about a replacement for an IG(S)O-540, you are
talking about a 680Fxx airframe. The MRRPM conversion is the only one
currently certified for that model although the Merlyn probably could be
with some effort.
Comparing the IG(S)O-540 with an IO-720 is an interesting excercise.
Although the 720 is rated at a slightly higher HP, the GO-540 still
produces more static thrust (almost 900 ft/lbs torque at the
propshaft!). The 720 has a HUGE advantage in fuel specifics. At the
same HP, it burns just over half the fuel. It's also a 2000 hr TBO
engine. The existing 720 STC utilizes a sub-optimal prop which robs the
airplane of some of it's potential performance. Supposedly, there is
work going on to approve a new prop with this package but I have no
details at this time. With a well-matched prop, the 720 should provide
similar takeoff and climb performance with superior top speed when
compared to the 540.
Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the
geared 540's on the market today. It is available with or without
turbocharging (don't know why you wouldn't put the hairdryers on though).
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Frits
Get a good machinist, buy a plate of the appropriate lining, and have them
made. The first thing the machinist will tell you is that he won't be able to
hold it properly on the lathe. Make a pilot hole in the center. Any "new" pad
you'd probably be able to buy will have a hole in the center. Depending on
how many you make, you'll probably be able to get them for $8 to $10 a piece.
Or try Milford Air Parts, 800-327-7626 / 954-252-3438, Davie, FL. They sell
parts for Beech D-18, the brakes are the same. Al will probably charge you
$15 a piece.
Good luck
Marcio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barshalom(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
So, it seems that you are saying that a MrRPM IO 720 is the way to go:
direct drive prop that is not currently well-matched to the AC500 but is
supposed to be being replaced with an STC prop upgrade soon
400HP
should give more takeoff and climb as well as top speed performance
available with turbo
direct replacement for IO 540 (by the way, you only have to worry about the
crank gear bolt AD if you have a yellow one -bolt that is. Most people don't
and it is easy to determine if you do from logs.)
I will keep the IO 540's as they have only 500 hours on them. They work good
and I get 170 knots TAS at 23 squared in my 500B with them. And I like the
simplicity of operation with the IO 540's because I don't have to deal with
rpm and temperature management like I would with gears and turbo chargers.
KISS works best for me.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Bill in TN
N69PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Windham" <bw_cycon(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey Chris, what's your land line number. Have a question to ask off
line. Buddy. My mobile number is 616 497-0854 or office at 616 896-6588
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
-->
Barshalom(at)aol.com wrote:
> Is there an alternative to re-build or factory re-man
> that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
There are really only two options on the market right now: The MRRPM
IO-720 conversion (400hp) and the Merlyn package (350hp). The Orenda V8
just isn't available at this time, but hopefully will be some time in
the future. The Colemill package is a 300hp Continental. Colemill no
longer does this mod nor would the performance by close to a geared 540.
If you're talking about a replacement for an IG(S)O-540, you are
talking about a 680Fxx airframe. The MRRPM conversion is the only one
currently certified for that model although the Merlyn probably could be
with some effort.
Comparing the IG(S)O-540 with an IO-720 is an interesting excercise.
Although the 720 is rated at a slightly higher HP, the GO-540 still
produces more static thrust (almost 900 ft/lbs torque at the
propshaft!). The 720 has a HUGE advantage in fuel specifics. At the
same HP, it burns just over half the fuel. It's also a 2000 hr TBO
engine. The existing 720 STC utilizes a sub-optimal prop which robs the
airplane of some of it's potential performance. Supposedly, there is
work going on to approve a new prop with this package but I have no
details at this time. With a well-matched prop, the 720 should provide
similar takeoff and climb performance with superior top speed when
compared to the 540.
Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the
geared 540's on the market today. It is available with or without
turbocharging (don't know why you wouldn't put the hairdryers on
though).
Chris
=
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Wall" <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com> |
Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a 560A. Right
now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall between the engine
and the oil cooler.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Windham" <bw_cycon(at)yahoo.com> |
My 560e has airwolf fileters, the work fine mounting on the firewall. My
only suggestion is to make sure you change the filter with warm metal.
Make the unscrewing go a lot easier with out flexing the firewall. Even
with the backing plate you still get movement on the bracket.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Wall
Subject: Commander-List: Oil Filters
-->
Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a 560A.
Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall between
the engine and the oil cooler.
=
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Chris
I chose AIRWOLF instead of ADC just because it was the only one STCd for the
720 but after really comparing both I regret my decision. The bracket is
small, and won't fit in the holes in the firewall. To compensate for the
bracket thickness and absorb vibrations, they send a piece of hose you're
supposed to tie around the cartridge with a clamp.
Try to get your hands on both, before deciding. ADC is much stronger, the
head is cast with kind of a nut that helps holding the unit for removing a
tight filter, and has provision for a chip detector. I think that even at the
expense of a field approval, you'll be better served.
Cheers
Marcio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
Chris,
On my 680F(p) we installed the Airwolf filters in the rear sections of the
nacelles (outboard of the wheels when they are retracted) and got a one time
field approval as there was no STC. You might consider the "other brand," as
the top of the
Airwolf filter housing is round, and removing a filter which has 'stuck' at
the gasket can be a bit tricky as there is no way to get a wrench on the top,
and it will twist the mounting surface (firewall or whatever it is bolted to).
Moe Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
> that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
> maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns associated
> with turbo- or super-charged engines.
>
__There Ain't no concerns or operational issues with geared,
turbo/supercharged engines.
Just operate them correctly.
Most of these planes are 30-50 years old and they are doing just fine with
these engines.
Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit
there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home.
Get the geared engine and feel the power and climb capability.
Fly it correctly and there aren't any "geared issues"
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
When I first started looking at Commanders, just about EVERYONE said "stay
away from geared engines". Morris Kernick gave me sound advice about the
proper operation of geared engines, and I have been happy with mine now for
4 years and about 500 hours. In fact, the extra care and forethought
required to operate these engines (like planning AHEAD for let downs,
stablized approaches, proper ground operations, etc.) has made me a MUCH
better pilot.
I wouldn't trade the last 500 hours for any other airplane...well, maybe a
nice Dash 10 690B would be nice.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
>
>
> > that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
> > maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns
associated
> > with turbo- or super-charged engines.
> >
> __There Ain't no concerns or operational issues with geared,
> turbo/supercharged engines.
> Just operate them correctly.
> Most of these planes are 30-50 years old and they are doing just fine with
> these engines.
>
> Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit
> there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home.
>
> Get the geared engine and feel the power and climb capability.
>
> Fly it correctly and there aren't any "geared issues"
>
> Milt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/3/2002 12:36:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> Is there a shop or center where they have brake
> pads/linings for a 680 and a 680E in stock.
HI FRITZ.Try Kenmore Hir Harbor, Seattle WA. Have the part # ready. They
fit Beavers. Ask for Joe. INSTALL CLEVELANDS ASAP!!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
In a message dated 12/3/2002 8:10:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the
> geared 540's on the market today. It is available with or without
> turbocharging (don't know why you wouldn't put the hairdryers on though).
>
OK, I CANT STAND IT ANY LONGER!!! There is NO direct drive engine that will
perform beside it's geared counterpart, none. There is absolutely nothing
wrong with a geared aircraft engine. Turbine engines are geared, P-51s are
geared, all large radial engines are geared, ultra lights are geared your car
is geared even the blender on your kitchen counter is geared. In fact, the
only "non geared" piece of machinery you are likely to own is you airplane
and........your lawnmower!! Treat them right, they are unbeatable. :-)
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/3/2002 10:25:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cwall(at)worldflight2000.com writes:
> Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a 560A.
> Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall between
> the engine and the oil cooler.
HI CHRIS...Contact Gary at Commander Aero, Good luck. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
Milt is correct. If you have an engine out on take off that 380 HP on the
runner sure does feel good.
Moe Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Val Brady" <valbrady(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | change of address |
Please change Dan Brady's email addy from valbrady(at)thegrid.net to westwindaero(at)lycos.com.
Val bought me my very own computer so I can now get my very own mail. As soon as
I get caught up, I'll contribute my share.
Dan Brady
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>>Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the
>>geared 540's
>
> OK, I CANT STAND IT ANY LONGER!!! There is NO direct drive engine that will
> perform beside it's geared counterpart, none.
Calm down my friend...the world isn't coming to an end - truely...
Nobody said anything bad about geared engines. I think pretty much
everyone would agree that they out-perform the non-geared alternatives.
The question was simply: what are the alternatives to geared 540's.
As far as I know, the MRRPM IO720 conversion is the only thing you can
actually go buy today. Please add other options that you may know of.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Hamilton <fighterf(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Fritz,
This is the reason the Cleveland conversions are so popular, at this price,
it doesn't take long to pay for the Clevelands.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
>
>Hello Commanderfans,
>
>Is there a shop or center where they have brake
>pads/linings for a 680 and a 680E in stock.
>And for a normal price.
>I need 6 on each side so total 24.
>Contact with a shop: factory can deliver those after
>22 weeks.???
>Another shop was trying to (over)charge $ 185 a pad.
>If "they" are trying this way for us to maintain AC's
>it will be the wrong one.
>
>Frits Abbing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Hamilton <fighterf(at)ozemail.com.au> |
All,
If you go this route, and the aircraft is in anything but Experimental Cat.
of some kind, make certain you have the FAR Part 21 requirements covered,
or the pads you use are otherwise approved, making brake pads does not come
under the heading of manufacturing parts in the course of maintenance ( FAR
Part 43).
Insurance companies are not on your side, if the TCDS and C of A have been
invalidated.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
>
>Dear Frits
>
>Get a good machinist, buy a plate of the appropriate lining, and have them
>made. The first thing the machinist will tell you is that he won't be able to
>hold it properly on the lathe. Make a pilot hole in the center. Any "new" pad
>you'd probably be able to buy will have a hole in the center. Depending on
>how many you make, you'll probably be able to get them for $8 to $10 a piece.
>
>Or try Milford Air Parts, 800-327-7626 / 954-252-3438, Davie, FL. They sell
>parts for Beech D-18, the brakes are the same. Al will probably charge you
>$15 a piece.
>
>Good luck
>
>Marcio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leon Stovall" <lstovall(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
Way to go Milt!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
>
>
> > that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
> > maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns
associated
> > with turbo- or super-charged engines.
> >
> __There Ain't no concerns or operational issues with geared,
> turbo/supercharged engines.
> Just operate them correctly.
> Most of these planes are 30-50 years old and they are doing just fine with
> these engines.
>
> Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit
> there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home.
>
> Get the geared engine and feel the power and climb capability.
>
> Fly it correctly and there aren't any "geared issues"
>
> Milt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Hamilton <fighterf(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Chris,
Go for one of the systems that uses spin on filters such as Champion, any
of the mesh screen types only stop rock and small babies.
Seriously, for good filtration and convenience, the spin on is the only way
to go. I have some experience of both, in my opinion it is no contest.
A common modification is to run the lines from an adapter through the
firewall, and put the filter canister on the aft side, this solves an space
problems immediately behind the engine.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
>
>Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a
>560A. Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall
>between the engine and the oil cooler.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
> HI FRITZ.Try Kenmore Hir Harbor, Seattle WA. Have the part # ready. They
> fit Beavers. Ask for Joe. INSTALL CLEVELANDS ASAP!!! jb
BOY, Fritz is sure getting more options than I did when I asked the same
question.
bilbo:>(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Apendix horse |
> An Appendix is something found at the back of a book.
>
> So my guess, and admittedly, that's all it is :-) is that:
>
> An Apendix horse is one which always finishes last in a race, i.e. at the
> back.
>
> Aren't you all glad you're saddled with me!
> I'll stop now before I really get the bit between my teeth!
===========================================
An Appendix horse is half Quarterhorse and half Thoroughbred. That
translates into Tall and Smart(smart being a VERY relative term).
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
That's it, Jim !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
In a message dated 12/03/02 15:37:07 Pacific Standard Time,
n414c(at)direcway.com writes:
> Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit
> there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home.
Squishy noises? That's terrific!
From some of the emails, it looked liked someone wanted to change out IO-540
engines on a 500B.
Just to clarify something, the ONLY STC'd engine upgrade for the 500B is the
Merlyn conversion.
The IO-720 / Mr. RPM package was done for the 680F series (as Chris
Schuermann said) and there are, I think, two Shrikes with IO-720s on them.
Can they go on the 500B? Sure. But someone has to do the STC.
Squishy. Indeed.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I once had to replace the hub on my straight 500 because something was wrong
with it due to heavy braking (can't remember whether it was a crack or
something else. There are two shells a side, no? Cannot remember.). It used
to be a charter machine before I got hold of it. After that I executed
landings with power on and in a deep stall before touching down and then
kept the stick pulled back until turning off the runway. The Commander is
capable of holding its nosewheel off the runway for a considerable period of
time, acting like a drag-chute.
In the process I never used the brakes again on landing. (Shorter strips
demanded otherwise, of course.) I was amazed at the low speed that the
elevator would still slightly lift the nose, indicating that there is still
a lot of drag in the elevator to slow things down for free.
Before I wised up on the costs of showing nobody everytime how short my AC
would land, I leaned on the brakes, thinking that the cost of rolling to the
next exit on the runway and taxiing back would outstrip the cost of the
brakes. But it didn't. One night while landing in the 680FP I heard the
brakes shuddering. I looked out the window and saw that the rotors were red
hot! Imagine the stress on all the components and the tires too! From that
I know what's happening to the brakes on the big iron when I hear the brakes
shuddering when a pilot tries to go for an earlier exit. Perhaps they have
different criteria.
In my defense, I must say the airport I landed at was 5000' asl, there was
some gusting wind so I landed a bit faster to be sure, and the runway
slanted slightly downhill. It was an eye-opener nevertheless.
I adopted the same landing technique on the Seneca, the Twin Comanche, and
the C182 and it was a pleasant surprize to see the inspections come and go
and no brake pads needed.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Hamilton" <fighterf(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: brake pads
>
> All,
> If you go this route, and the aircraft is in anything but Experimental
Cat.
> of some kind, make certain you have the FAR Part 21 requirements covered,
> or the pads you use are otherwise approved, making brake pads does not
come
> under the heading of manufacturing parts in the course of maintenance (
FAR
> Part 43).
> Insurance companies are not on your side, if the TCDS and C of A have been
> invalidated.
> Cheers,
> Bill Hamilton.
>
>
> >
> >Dear Frits
> >
> >Get a good machinist, buy a plate of the appropriate lining, and have
them
> >made. The first thing the machinist will tell you is that he won't be
able to
> >hold it properly on the lathe. Make a pilot hole in the center. Any "new"
pad
> >you'd probably be able to buy will have a hole in the center. Depending
on
> >how many you make, you'll probably be able to get them for $8 to $10 a
piece.
> >
> >Or try Milford Air Parts, 800-327-7626 / 954-252-3438, Davie, FL. They
sell
> >parts for Beech D-18, the brakes are the same. Al will probably charge
you
> >$15 a piece.
> >
> >Good luck
> >
> >Marcio
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Archives Now Available! |
Hello Commander Listers,
Nico was kind enough to upload the Commander List archives all the way back
to April of 2001. I wrote some code today to convert them to the format my
system uses, stripped out a whole wad of advertisements and other stuff,
and just finished putting them on line for Searching, Browsing, and
Downloading!
The two main pages of interest include the Searching Page and the Archive
page. The URLs for these are respectively:
http://www.matronics.com/search (be sure to select the Commander archive!)
and
http://www.matronics.com/archives
These two links and a number of others can always be found in the List
Email Trailer below.
Thank you, Nico, for taking the time to save all those messages and for
getting them to me! Don't forget to email the all the List photos
to pictures(at)matronics.com and I'll see that all of them get up on the
Photoshare page as well!
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Archives Now Available! |
Folks,
If you have ever doubted the search ability of this new list, then type
something in there. Just remember to pick 'commander' from the drop down
box. It's easy, just type in your browser's address area "matronics.com" and
remember to type in:"/searh" after that. I tried it just to check it out.
So, I typed in Seneca and I got all the yakking that we had that had Seneca
in it from back in May 2001 when H. James McConnell wrote about his Pilots
for Christ, till my last cackling about the Seneca's brakes.
I typed in "simmonds" and had all the info ever posted from back in June
2001 when WC Gordon posted an article about the simmonds fuel injection
units till Randy responded to Chris's article on the Simmonds FI only
yesterday.
Thanks, Matt. It's a great resource now. I will try to get the pics up
tomorrow.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Archives Now Available!
>
>
> Hello Commander Listers,
>
> Nico was kind enough to upload the Commander List archives all the way
back
> to April of 2001. I wrote some code today to convert them to the format
my
> system uses, stripped out a whole wad of advertisements and other stuff,
> and just finished putting them on line for Searching, Browsing, and
> Downloading!
>
> The two main pages of interest include the Searching Page and the Archive
> page. The URLs for these are respectively:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/search (be sure to select the Commander
archive!)
>
> and
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
> These two links and a number of others can always be found in the List
> Email Trailer below.
>
> Thank you, Nico, for taking the time to save all those messages and for
> getting them to me! Don't forget to email the all the List photos
> to pictures(at)matronics.com and I'll see that all of them get up on the
> Photoshare page as well!
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Matt Dralle
> List Admin.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hi, my name is Barry.... |
FAR MORE THAN WE EVER CARED TO KNOW ABOUT BARRY (aka Berry) Hancock
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Hi, my name is Barry....
>
> ...and I'm a Commanderholic.
>
> Let's see....I was born in Orange, CA in 1968. Yes, that makes me 34
> and admittedly still wet behind the ears, especially in this group.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Archives Now Available! |
DON'T PUT IN "SUMP"
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Archives Now Available!
>
> Folks,
> If you have ever doubted the search ability of this new list, then type
> something in there. Just remember to pick 'commander' from the drop down
> box. It's easy, just type in your browser's address area "matronics.com"
and
> remember to type in:"/searh" after that. I tried it just to check it out.
> So, I typed in Seneca and I got all the yakking that we had that had
Seneca
> in it from back in May 2001 when H. James McConnell wrote about his Pilots
> for Christ, till my last cackling about the Seneca's brakes.
> I typed in "simmonds" and had all the info ever posted from back in June
> 2001 when WC Gordon posted an article about the simmonds fuel injection
> units till Randy responded to Chris's article on the Simmonds FI only
> yesterday.
>
> Thanks, Matt. It's a great resource now. I will try to get the pics up
> tomorrow.
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Archives Now Available!
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hello Commander Listers,
> >
> > Nico was kind enough to upload the Commander List archives all the way
> back
> > to April of 2001. I wrote some code today to convert them to the format
> my
> > system uses, stripped out a whole wad of advertisements and other stuff,
> > and just finished putting them on line for Searching, Browsing, and
> > Downloading!
> >
> > The two main pages of interest include the Searching Page and the
Archive
> > page. The URLs for these are respectively:
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/search (be sure to select the Commander
> archive!)
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> >
> > These two links and a number of others can always be found in the List
> > Email Trailer below.
> >
> > Thank you, Nico, for taking the time to save all those messages and for
> > getting them to me! Don't forget to email the all the List photos
> > to pictures(at)matronics.com and I'll see that all of them get up on the
> > Photoshare page as well!
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> > List Admin.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
This is my version of the "Hi I,I'm Barry posting".
Barry,
That was me flying overhead in those CH 46 Seaknights and years later in C-130s
when you were lying in you crib in a messy diaper.
Hi,
My name is Milt.
Through this list I have gained some lifelong best friends (Chris Schuerman, Crunk
and Crunk, Jet Paul, Big AL, Gary Tillman, Jimbob, Bow, Barry and Barry, Wing
Commander, and too many others to name.)
I started flying about 35 years ago and was an airline pilot wannabe (like Crunk
and Jet Paul)
Most of my time is in Apaches, C310s, C421s, and Twin Commanders.
I have owned a straight 560 (now owned by Leon Stoval N295V) and now fly N414C
a 685 owned by my wife Gail ( she won't let me buy anything). You can see my handsome
face on Chris' website.
After an eternity in the Marine Corps I spent several years as a CFI and freight
dog while going to school. As I looked right and left at the flight instructors
I was working with and saw they were number 6 billion on the airline recall
list I figured a career in the airlines was unlikely. So I became a Cardiologist
instead.
You will find on the list that I am almost as obnoxious as Barry Hancock who is
almost as obnoxious as Big Al.
Do not bad mouth geared engines or blowers or my friends and you will do OK.
Piss me off and I'll send you a butt load of crude pictures of SQUAKS.
I'm also known as the Shirt. A title most of you will aspire too but will never
achieve. As of now only Barry Collman and Wing Commander belong to the Order
of the Shirt with me.
I'm Irish and proud of it and I still like Sir Barry even though his ancestors
f#%ked with my ancestors unmercifully.
I live in Mississippi (no I did not marry my sister) and if you mess with the South
you mess with a bunch of us.
So next year come to Dayton and drink some "no name" with me and my friends.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
> After an eternity in the Marine Corps I spent several years as a CFI and
freight dog while going to school. As I looked right and left at the flight
instructors I was working with and saw they were number 6 billion on the
airline recall list I figured a career in the airlines was unlikely. So I
became a Cardiologist instead.
===============
If my parents could have afforded Golf lessons, I too, could have been a
doctor. ;>)
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 06:20 AM, n414c wrote:
> You will find on the list that I am almost as obnoxious as Barry
> Hancock who is almost as obnoxious as Big Al.
Geez, now being to the point, tackling issues head on, and
tongue-in-cheek humor is obnoxious. I know you better than to call you
a liberal, but c'mon Milt, where's the love here? I guess you
did list me as one of your lifelong best friends, so it can't be all
bad... :)
Barry
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Archives Now Available! |
In a message dated 12/04/02 00:53:23 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Thanks, Matt. It's a great resource now. I will try to get the pics up
> tomorrow.
>
Thanks, Nico!
I remembered you volunteered to archive all the email chat, but didn't know
you were actually doing it. (Maybe I'd have been more careful if I thought
someone was watching ...)
You're a saint!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi, my name is Barry.... |
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
Well, Milt, it's like when I was in the broadcast media. They teams
would give us a media guide with gobs of information, but it was up to
us to sift through it and pick what we wanted to use. I'm prolific,
what can I say. When I publish my first book, it'll be much more than
you want to know too....next time I'll just write a kids story with 10
words so that you can understand it. I'll even mail you a box of
crayons....oh, wait, that was obnoxious. Damn!
Barry
PS for those of you who don't know, the above was definitely
TONGUE-IN-CHEEK.... :)
On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 05:53 AM, n414c wrote:
>
> FAR MORE THAN WE EVER CARED TO KNOW ABOUT BARRY (aka Berry) Hancock
> Milt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Hi, my name is Barry....
>
>
>>
>>
>> ...and I'm a Commanderholic.
>>
>> Let's see....I was born in Orange, CA in 1968. Yes, that makes me 34
>> and admittedly still wet behind the ears, especially in this group.
>>
>
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Wall" <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com> |
Just ordered the Airwolf filters. Getting a field approval from the Houston FSDO
is miserable.
I asked John, in tech about the problem of removing the filters which came up several
times in everybodys response about which filter to chose. What he said
is that it is a problem with how the filters are installed. First always use
silcone grease on the rubber seal, don't get lazy and use oil(I knew that but
have been lazy myself at times) Second the torque spec that champion puts on
the side of the filter is a dry torque spec, but when the filter is installed
it is greased and therefore is really being over torqued. Airwolf has asked champion
to change this, but have not been succesful in their request. John's
advice was to tighten the filter a half turn after the rubber first touched the
mating surface. If this advice is followed it should make removal much easier.
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: MOEMILLS(at)aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:22:28 EST
>
>Chris,
>
>On my 680F(p) we installed the Airwolf filters in the rear sections of the
>nacelles (outboard of the wheels when they are retracted) and got a one time
>field approval as there was no STC. You might consider the "other brand," as
>the top of the
>Airwolf filter housing is round, and removing a filter which has 'stuck' at
>the gasket can be a bit tricky as there is no way to get a wrench on the top,
>and it will twist the mounting surface (firewall or whatever it is bolted to).
>
>Moe Mills
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Wall" <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Goodyear Brakes |
I have three sets of Goodyear brakes and wheels and dics and brake pads(think that
12 of them might be decent the rest are almost junk) sitting in my garage,
one off of dreamcatcher, one off Jimbob's airplane that was in a little better
shape than the ones on dreamcatcher so we switched them out before we got smart
and went with clevelands. The third set is off my latest 560A project and
are in decent shape, but went to clevelands. I am moving soon and don't want
to be hauling them around the country with me. If anybody is interested in the
parts I will send them to you if you want to pay for the shipping. If you feel
like you got a good deal and they really helped you out, then all I ask is
that you send a little donation to the TCFG to help Jimbob help us all.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Goodyear Brakes |
Hi, Chris
I need the brakes. Please send them when you can, I'll pay for shipping and
handling as well.
And I'll increase my contribution to TCFG, anyway...
Thanks a lot
Take care
Marcio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Wall" <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Goodyear Brakes |
Marcio,
I have already had several request. Please explain your need, (in particular which
parts you need and how pressing the need is)and I will do my best to help
you out.
Chris
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: MarcioK(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:07:25 EST
>
>Hi, Chris
>
>I need the brakes. Please send them when you can, I'll pay for shipping and
>handling as well.
>
>And I'll increase my contribution to TCFG, anyway...
>
>Thanks a lot
>
>Take care
>
>Marcio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnSpray(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
WING COMMANDER GORDON AND ALL: I am certainly not an expert on the IGSO 540
B1A engines, However I have made some notes about the fuel consumption's at
various power settings.
For example; Cruise power, 2600 RPM Fuel Flow 120 LBS/Side.
Mixture, 50' Rich, IAS 175 MPH.
2600 RPM Fuel Flow 85
LBS/Side.
Mixture, 50' Lean, IAS 160 MPH.
So what does that tell us? I was really? From all I have read and heard
about this subject I have decided to run at 50' rich and my experience with
exhaust fingerprints on the top of the cowling is what you would like to see,
a soft white and not black. If I could only see the exhaust stacks and I saw
the sweet Blue White Flame coming out, I know its rite. I have had three
compression checks since I've owned my 680 F(P) and all are above 74 except
one #5 cyl. that is 70#. Remember that the # 5&6 Cyl's get the weather if
your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl flaps
and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
We are all in this together, and you know what options are like, rite, and
this is what I have come up with. Thanks Commander Gordon for Inviting me to
participate in the discussion.
capnspray, AKA Jerry R. Sprayberry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnSpray(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
In a message dated 12/2/02 8:09:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
baruch(at)intelligentflight.com writes:
> What's wrong with geared engines? Mine are smooth and reliable, relatively
> inexpensive to operate, and don't have a crank AD
My IGSO 540 B1A's are operating perfect, But you cannot put a pilot in there
that cannot stay ahead of the Airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnSpray(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Apendix horse |
HI Barry: N198 JW Now has winglets, and Hi lights on the wing tips, I am at
Commander Aero now and Gary Kromer has made everything up to date on N198JW.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
In order for smooth operation I have to run my Continental 520Ks at a TIT
temp about 100 rich of peak. This gives the white chalky residue Spray
mentioned. At that temp @ 32" and 2750 rpm ~65% pwr
each engine burns ~138pph
As I exceed 100deg rich of peak power output drops at and lean of peak the
engines get rough and downright cranky.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: <CapnSpray(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
> WING COMMANDER GORDON AND ALL: I am certainly not an expert on the IGSO
540
> B1A engines, However I have made some notes about the fuel consumption's
at
> various power settings.
>
> For example; Cruise power, 2600 RPM Fuel Flow 120 LBS/Side.
> Mixture, 50' Rich, IAS 175 MPH.
> 2600 RPM Fuel Flow 85
> LBS/Side.
> Mixture, 50' Lean, IAS 160 MPH.
>
> So what does that tell us? I was really? From all I have read and heard
> about this subject I have decided to run at 50' rich and my experience
with
> exhaust fingerprints on the top of the cowling is what you would like to
see,
> a soft white and not black. If I could only see the exhaust stacks and I
saw
> the sweet Blue White Flame coming out, I know its rite. I have had three
> compression checks since I've owned my 680 F(P) and all are above 74
except
> one #5 cyl. that is 70#. Remember that the # 5&6 Cyl's get the weather if
> your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl flaps
> and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
>
> We are all in this together, and you know what options are like, rite, and
> this is what I have come up with. Thanks Commander Gordon for Inviting me
to
> participate in the discussion.
>
> capnspray, AKA Jerry R. Sprayberry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
Captain Kirk
The original Star Trek
Budweiser Beer
Geared engines
Captain Picard
The New Star trek
Bud Lite
Direct Drive
Like I said Squishy
I rest my case
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: <CapnSpray(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
>
> In a message dated 12/2/02 8:09:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> baruch(at)intelligentflight.com writes:
>
>
> > What's wrong with geared engines? Mine are smooth and reliable,
relatively
> > inexpensive to operate, and don't have a crank AD
>
> My IGSO 540 B1A's are operating perfect, But you cannot put a pilot in
there
> that cannot stay ahead of the Airplane.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
n414c wrote:
> Continental 520Ks at a TIT temp about 100 rich of peak.
Mixture, 50' Rich,
Just as an interesting side note, the boys down a Gami have determined
that 50 ROP gives the highest chance of detonation based upon their test
cell measurements. Prior to their studies, I'd been under the
assumption that PEAK egt made detonation most likely. Interesting
reading anyway. I'm still holding judgement until more folks make TBO
runs LOP (not that the discussion is even relevant to geared engines...)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
In a message dated 12/04/02 16:08:37 Pacific Standard Time, CapnSpray(at)aol.com
writes:
> if
> your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl flaps
> and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
>
That is such good advice! That goes for ALL the flat nacelle models, by the
way.
Nice work, Capn' Spray.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
I have found that "soup cans" work perfectly over the exhaust pipes. In
fact, I have included "remove soup cans" on my pre-flight check list. And,
they last longer than styrofoam cups...especially when the pipes are hot.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
> In a message dated 12/04/02 16:08:37 Pacific Standard Time,
CapnSpray(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
>
> > if
> > your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl
flaps
> > and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
> >
>
> That is such good advice! That goes for ALL the flat nacelle models, by
the
> way.
>
> Nice work, Capn' Spray.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
I thought the COTM (Commander Of The Month) program was kind of a neat way
to get to know people and their airplanes. Why haven't we (as a group)
perpetuated(a big word for a freight pilot) this. That is as polite of a way
I could come up with to say "get off your ass and do something". Please..
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: COTM CHALLENGE |
If I remember correctly Chris all but begged for commander photos and
received none.
I went back to the COTM archives and note you have gained a bit of weight
since that picture was taken.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
Subject: Commander-List: COTM CHALLENGE
>
> I thought the COTM (Commander Of The Month) program was kind of a neat way
> to get to know people and their airplanes. Why haven't we (as a group)
> perpetuated(a big word for a freight pilot) this. That is as polite of a
way
> I could come up with to say "get off your ass and do something". Please..
>
> bilbo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
It's winter, put on your covers.
Santa's Canadian transport.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
> In a message dated 12/04/02 16:08:37 Pacific Standard Time,
CapnSpray(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
>
> > if
> > your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl
flaps
> > and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
> >
>
> That is such good advice! That goes for ALL the flat nacelle models, by
the
> way.
>
> Nice work, Capn' Spray.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
How about the transport truck type of hinged flap, nothing to remove.
T...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
> I have found that "soup cans" work perfectly over the exhaust pipes. In
> fact, I have included "remove soup cans" on my pre-flight check list.
And,
> they last longer than styrofoam cups...especially when the pipes are hot.
>
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F/N6253X
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 12/04/02 16:08:37 Pacific Standard Time,
> CapnSpray(at)aol.com
> > writes:
> >
> >
> > > if
> > > your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl
> flaps
> > > and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
> > >
> >
> > That is such good advice! That goes for ALL the flat nacelle models, by
> the
> > way.
> >
> > Nice work, Capn' Spray.
> >
> > Wing Commander Gordon
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
In a message dated 12/04/02 17:24:12 Pacific Standard Time,
n414c(at)direcway.com writes:
> Captain Kirk
> The original Star Trek
> Budweiser Beer
> Geared engines
>
> Captain Picard
> The New Star trek
> Bud Lite
> Direct Drive
>
> Like I said Squishy
>
> I rest my case
Well, I would tend to agree with you, Shirt, but it's just not that simple.
Look at who you travel with ...
Geared: Spock, Dr. McCoy
Direct Drive: Data, Dr. Beverly Crusher, Dianna Troy, and a bunch of other
(up) stacked powerplants.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: COTM CHALLENGE |
I feel proud to have graced the COTM page for so long but it is time someone
volunteered their story, maybe your waiting until I get my 680FLP.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
Subject: Commander-List: COTM CHALLENGE
>
> I thought the COTM (Commander Of The Month) program was kind of a neat way
> to get to know people and their airplanes. Why haven't we (as a group)
> perpetuated(a big word for a freight pilot) this. That is as polite of a
way
> I could come up with to say "get off your ass and do something". Please..
>
> bilbo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
Tom Fisher wrote:
>
> How about the transport truck type of hinged flap, nothing to remove.
Heh! That's a hoot. And they make that great little "dinggy-dinggy"
noise at idle! I offer to remove one from my Moline tractor for the
first person who'll STC it on a Commander!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
In a message dated 12/04/02 18:29:51 Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
> How about the transport truck type of hinged flap, nothing to remove.
>
Morris Kernick and I tossed that idea around a long time ago. We came to the
conclusion that the FAA just wouldn't go for it.
I wish they would.
The soup can idea is great, Randy, but it has to be Progresso Hearty Lentil
to fit properly and I'm not sure the guys on this list will eat enough cans
of it to cover their airplanes.
Now, those Big Gulp styrofoam cups ought to be popular with this crowd and
they'll blow off with the turn of the first blade if you forget them.
Unless, of course, one installs them while the stacks are still hot. That's
why I suggest sticking your tongue on the exhaust stack to test them, and, to
clean them a bit after each flight. You know, like your cat would, if you'd
take it flying with you.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
>That's
> why I suggest sticking your tongue on the exhaust stack to test them, and, to
> clean them a bit after each flight. You know, like your cat would, if you'd
> take it flying with you.
Keith, don't ever leave - please!
chris
PS: don't ever, under any circumstances, take a cat flying. Contrary to
popular belief, they do not land on their feet - they land on your lap!
One flight with a cat and you won't need to schedule that vasectomy...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: COTM CHALLENGE |
I quit smoking. Maybe 30 pounds, Thank You.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: COTM CHALLENGE
>
> If I remember correctly Chris all but begged for commander photos and
> received none.
> I went back to the COTM archives and note you have gained a bit of weight
> since that picture was taken.
>
> Milt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: COTM CHALLENGE
>
>
> >
> > I thought the COTM (Commander Of The Month) program was kind of a neat
way
> > to get to know people and their airplanes. Why haven't we (as a group)
> > perpetuated(a big word for a freight pilot) this. That is as polite of a
> way
> > I could come up with to say "get off your ass and do something".
Please..
> >
> > bilbo
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
BREAKER ONE NINE, HOW 'BOUT THAT GREEN DIESEL DOW N YONDER??
Yea sign me up for that STC. Will it be a necessity that they be chromed?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
>
> Tom Fisher wrote:
> >
> > How about the transport truck type of hinged flap, nothing to remove.
>
> Heh! That's a hoot. And they make that great little "dinggy-dinggy"
> noise at idle! I offer to remove one from my Moline tractor for the
> first person who'll STC it on a Commander!
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
And just how do we know this?
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
>
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> >That's
> > why I suggest sticking your tongue on the exhaust stack to test them,
and, to
> > clean them a bit after each flight. You know, like your cat would, if
you'd
> > take it flying with you.
>
> Keith, don't ever leave - please!
> chris
>
> PS: don't ever, under any circumstances, take a cat flying. Contrary to
> popular belief, they do not land on their feet - they land on your lap!
> One flight with a cat and you won't need to schedule that vasectomy...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
I took my cat up in a Jet Ranger (helicopter), the cat by the way was stone
deaf from birth.
The cat stood on the knee of my wife of that era and watch the ground slip
away as I did a vertical climb out.
Funny to watch.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
>
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> >That's
> > why I suggest sticking your tongue on the exhaust stack to test them,
and, to
> > clean them a bit after each flight. You know, like your cat would, if
you'd
> > take it flying with you.
>
> Keith, don't ever leave - please!
> chris
>
> PS: don't ever, under any circumstances, take a cat flying. Contrary to
> popular belief, they do not land on their feet - they land on your lap!
> One flight with a cat and you won't need to schedule that vasectomy...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
In a message dated 12/3/02 5:24:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> Calm down my friend...the world isn't coming to an end - truely...
And furthermore, Even Chris Schuremann's Gas powered ice-cream maker is, you
guessed it, GEARED!! ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
In a message dated 12/4/02 5:24:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
n414c(at)direcway.com writes:
> Captain Picard
> The New Star trek
"Beam me up Scot.....er I mean Milt"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Geared vs other than geared |
Now that we have defended the manhood of geared engines and dissed the non geared....
Chris has pretty well outlined the options.
I am however amazed at the questions not asked and the information not discussed
when this subject comes up.
Let say you purchase an average condition 689FLP for $125,000 and it has 400 hour
engines.
The prebuy goes well and you need to do about $50,000 in work, 20,000 of it is
for exhaust,blower work and other engine related items.
Lets also say you fly 200 hours a year.
1. What is the cost at this point of doing a Mr. RPM conversion.
2. Will the conversion cost plus normal maint. costs over the next 2 years
exceed the $20,000 plus maint costs if you keep the current engines.
3. Will the Mr. RPM conversion increase the sales price at the 2 year mark to payback
the expense. Remember sales price is what you get and not what you want
or think you should get.
4. For the price of the conversion how much improvement is there in climb, speed,
weight lifting, fuel efficiency.
5. When it is time to overhaul both geared engines apply the same 4 questions above.
Is the conversion to a non geared engine worth the cost.
Without doing the math myself (because I do not know the numbers) I doubt that
there is economic justification for a conversion. This is especially true given
the depressed sales prices of geared aircraft due to the negative perception
about them held by most of the pilot population.
I'm sure an IO 720 blown commander is a marvelous plane to fly and certainly has
a manly engine. But is it worth the cost.
The average plane owner buys a plane, spends a ton of money on it, flies it for
2 years and then sells it.
After 2 years do you really think you will get the purchase price plus the cost
of a conversion back?
Anyway that's my more serious thoughts on the matter.
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ricardo A. Otaola" <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
Cap:
I have a 680F, and the stting that you run, are similar to mine, yet I
get IAS of 188MPH.
My settings are 2600 RPM, 31,5 MP @ 10,500 feet, with outside temp of 45
degrees F. Cyl head at about 203 Centigrade.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CapnSpray(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
> WING COMMANDER GORDON AND ALL: I am certainly not an expert on the IGSO
540
> B1A engines, However I have made some notes about the fuel consumption's
at
> various power settings.
>
> For example; Cruise power, 2600 RPM Fuel Flow 120 LBS/Side.
> Mixture, 50' Rich, IAS 175 MPH.
> 2600 RPM Fuel Flow 85
> LBS/Side.
> Mixture, 50' Lean, IAS 160 MPH.
>
> So what does that tell us? I was really? From all I have read and heard
> about this subject I have decided to run at 50' rich and my experience
with
> exhaust fingerprints on the top of the cowling is what you would like to
see,
> a soft white and not black. If I could only see the exhaust stacks and I
saw
> the sweet Blue White Flame coming out, I know its rite. I have had three
> compression checks since I've owned my 680 F(P) and all are above 74
except
> one #5 cyl. that is 70#. Remember that the # 5&6 Cyl's get the weather if
> your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl flaps
> and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
>
> We are all in this together, and you know what options are like, rite, and
> this is what I have come up with. Thanks Commander Gordon for Inviting me
to
> participate in the discussion.
>
> capnspray, AKA Jerry R. Sprayberry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
Talked to the re builder at Central Cylinder who got all of Lyc's geared
inventory regarding care of the IGO540-B1As on my 560F. His advice was
"feed it lots of gas and it will stay happy". 34GPH gets me a true of 170K
and keeps cyl temps below 200.
Phil Stubbs
br549phil(at)mindspring.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
> [Original Message]
> From: Ricardo A. Otaola <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve>
> To:
> Date: 12/5/2002 9:29:52 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
>
> Cap:
>
> I have a 680F, and the stting that you run, are similar to mine, yet I
> get IAS of 188MPH.
> My settings are 2600 RPM, 31,5 MP @ 10,500 feet, with outside temp of
45
> degrees F. Cyl head at about 203 Centigrade.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CapnSpray(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
>
> >
> > WING COMMANDER GORDON AND ALL: I am certainly not an expert on the IGSO
> 540
> > B1A engines, However I have made some notes about the fuel consumption's
> at
> > various power settings.
> >
> > For example; Cruise power, 2600 RPM Fuel Flow 120 LBS/Side.
> > Mixture, 50' Rich, IAS 175 MPH.
> > 2600 RPM Fuel Flow 85
> > LBS/Side.
> > Mixture, 50' Lean, IAS 160 MPH.
> >
> > So what does that tell us? I was really? From all I have read and
heard
> > about this subject I have decided to run at 50' rich and my experience
> with
> > exhaust fingerprints on the top of the cowling is what you would like to
> see,
> > a soft white and not black. If I could only see the exhaust stacks and
I
> saw
> > the sweet Blue White Flame coming out, I know its rite. I have had
three
> > compression checks since I've owned my 680 F(P) and all are above 74
> except
> > one #5 cyl. that is 70#. Remember that the # 5&6 Cyl's get the weather
if
> > your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl
flaps
> > and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
> >
> > We are all in this together, and you know what options are like, rite,
and
> > this is what I have come up with. Thanks Commander Gordon for Inviting
me
> to
> > participate in the discussion.
> >
> > capnspray, AKA Jerry R. Sprayberry
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Apendix horse |
Hi Jerry,
Many thanks. Database has now been suitably updated. Must be the quickest such
update ever!!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <CapnSpray(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Apendix horse
|
| HI Barry: N198 JW Now has winglets, and Hi lights on the wing tips, I am at
| Commander Aero now and Gary Kromer has made everything up to date on N198JW.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Good news tonight |
Tonight at about 0100 UTC there was a MAYDAY on 121.5 while we were crossing
the Rockies. He said he was "Going Down" and was looking for a road. I
asked his position, to relay to ATC and he said he was "50 north of Tucson".
I lost contact with him but someone closer relayed he had landed on the road
safely and all were well.
It is a good night in aviation.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good news tonight |
Good night indeed.
If he had another fan perhaps you wouldn't even have heard about it. But we
are all thankful that they are alright. I wouldn't want to have his nerves
for a while.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Good news tonight
>
> Tonight at about 0100 UTC there was a MAYDAY on 121.5 while we were
crossing
> the Rockies. He said he was "Going Down" and was looking for a road. I
> asked his position, to relay to ATC and he said he was "50 north of
Tucson".
> I lost contact with him but someone closer relayed he had landed on the
road
> safely and all were well.
>
> It is a good night in aviation.
>
> bilbo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good news tonight |
Awesome
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Good news tonight
>
> Tonight at about 0100 UTC there was a MAYDAY on 121.5 while we were
crossing
> the Rockies. He said he was "Going Down" and was looking for a road. I
> asked his position, to relay to ATC and he said he was "50 north of
Tucson".
> I lost contact with him but someone closer relayed he had landed on the
road
> safely and all were well.
>
> It is a good night in aviation.
>
> bilbo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Good news tonight |
Bilbo,
Great Story.
Please advise if you Heavy Metal drivers always listen to 121.5
I personally do. Radio #2
Fly Safe & Hello to the family.
Gary Tillman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good news tonight |
> Please advise if you Heavy Metal drivers always listen to 121.5
> I personally do. Radio #2
> Fly Safe & Hello to the family.
> Gary Tillman
I can't speak for all, but I try to. Since September 11th it could be your
last chance before you hear the "big bang".
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Good news tonight |
In a message dated 12/06/02 06:01:31 Pacific Standard Time,
TILLMAN333(at)aol.com writes:
> Please advise if you Heavy Metal drivers always listen to 121.5
> I personally do. Radio #2
We're all supposed to now. That's via NOTAM, since Septmeber 11.
I got in the habit in Alaska in 1977 and if I have a COMM not in use, it's on
Guard. The distress call / signal you hear may be your own.
Wait, that didn't make sense, but you get the idea. ;-)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
I think this falls under the category of, "it doesn't apply to me." I'm
guilty myself, I've probably flown 100 times since 9/11 and monitored
Guard only half a dozen times. Look guys, and I include myself here, if
we are not going to exercise good airmanship (i.e. following NOTAMS) how
can we expect others to do the same. What if everyone flying that day
in your vicinity had this attitude and you had an emergency....if a tree
falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a
sound? It may be unlikely to happen to us driving twins, but if we're
not monitoring 121.5 we cannot assist others in trouble as Bilbo did.
Once again, WCG proves his superiority to us mere mortals...
Barry
On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 07:40 AM, CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>> Please advise if you Heavy Metal drivers always listen to 121.5
>> I personally do. Radio #2
>
> We're all supposed to now. That's via NOTAM, since Septmeber 11.
>
> I got in the habit in Alaska in 1977 and if I have a COMM not in use,
> it's on
> Guard. The distress call / signal you hear may be your own.
>
> Wait, that didn't make sense, but you get the idea. ;-)
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
>I have found that "soup cans" work perfectly over the exhaust pipes. In
>fact, I have included "remove soup cans" on my pre-flight check list. And,
>they last longer than styrofoam cups...especially when the pipes are hot.
>
>Randy Dettmer
>680F/N6253X
>
>Randy,
>
Do you heat the soup after start-up and then eat it or do you heat it up
upon arrival and then eat it? Also, which brand does best? :-)
Crunk
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
>
>>
>>In a message dated 12/04/02 16:08:37 Pacific Standard Time,
>>
>CapnSpray(at)aol.com
>
>>writes:
>>
>>
>>> if
>>>your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl
>>>
>flaps
>
>>>and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
>>>
>>That is such good advice! That goes for ALL the flat nacelle models, by
>>
>the
>
>>way.
>>
>>Nice work, Capn' Spray.
>>
>>Wing Commander Gordon
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
HI KIDS.
I have been out of town all week and hence, behind in my mail. I have
four new members to introduce to you.
First is David Talley. David lives in San Antonio, TX with his wife Miriam,
who is a Major in the USAF! They are planing a hangar at there home and it
will be large enough to accommodate a Commander. They have looked at a
derelict 560E near their home. They are currently flying a Stinson 108.
Next is Kerry Johnson of St. George, UT. Like David, he is looking
for his first Commander. Kerry is an electrical contractor as well as owner
of Flight Levels Aviation.
Then we have Mr. Blake Deal from Ponte Vedra, FL. Blake owns a 500,
SN 751. He is an attorney and says his Commander is "stock" and very
original.
Finally we have Mr. Bill Culwell. We all know Bill as
"barshalom(at)aol.com on the list. Bill owns a 500B with 7200 hr. TT It too is
very original.
Welcome aboard all!! Our group is growing, Thanks to all for
spreading the word and to Barry Collman of forwarding to me the registration
changes each month. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
I find that if I stick the cans in just under the cowling on top of the
engines (secured with duct tape of course, so they don't rattle around
during take-off and cruise...), they will be nice and warm (and tasty) after
shut-down. The problem is that it takes 4 soup cans, so I get awfully
stuffed each time I put those cans on the stacks. (I always try to plan on
arriving at my destination around lunch time.)
BTY, Campbell's Tomato soup is my favorite.
RD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
>
> Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> >
> >I have found that "soup cans" work perfectly over the exhaust pipes. In
> >fact, I have included "remove soup cans" on my pre-flight check list.
And,
> >they last longer than styrofoam cups...especially when the pipes are hot.
> >
> >Randy Dettmer
> >680F/N6253X
> >
> >Randy,
> >
> Do you heat the soup after start-up and then eat it or do you heat it up
> upon arrival and then eat it? Also, which brand does best? :-)
> Crunk
>
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Questions regarding the 680FL
> >
> >
> >>
> >>In a message dated 12/04/02 16:08:37 Pacific Standard Time,
> >>
> >CapnSpray(at)aol.com
> >
> >>writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>> if
> >>>your aircraft is left outside in the rain tied down, close your cowl
> >>>
> >flaps
> >
> >>>and put some Styrofoam cups over your exhaust pipes.
> >>>
> >>That is such good advice! That goes for ALL the flat nacelle models, by
> >>
> >the
> >
> >>way.
> >>
> >>Nice work, Capn' Spray.
> >>
> >>Wing Commander Gordon
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
In a message dated 12/06/02 10:26:17 Pacific Standard Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
> I have four new members to introduce to you.
>
Welcome aboard, Gentlemen!
I know "Kilowatt" Kerry and Bill from their posts on this email net. I hope
Major Talley and Mr. Deal, Esq., will check in and introduce themselves.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
I am a little confused, WCG. (Which is the ordinary state of affairs around
here.)
Are the new members introduced here fee paying members or are they merely
list-members. If the latter, how are they entered into the list
distribution?
I introduced a guy last week but don't know if he's on the list or not. I
gave his email address.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: MORE NEW MEMBERS!!
>
> In a message dated 12/06/02 10:26:17 Pacific Standard Time,
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
>
> > I have four new members to introduce to you.
> >
>
> Welcome aboard, Gentlemen!
>
> I know "Kilowatt" Kerry and Bill from their posts on this email net. I
hope
> Major Talley and Mr. Deal, Esq., will check in and introduce themselves.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
In a message dated 12/06/02 11:43:39 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> I am a little confused, WCG. (Which is the ordinary state of affairs around
> here.)
> Are the new members introduced here fee paying members or are they merely
> list-members. If the latter, how are they entered into the list
> distribution?
>
Nico,
I'll leave that for our Fearless Leader, Capt. JimBob to clear up, but ...
My best guess is that Members are just that: (paying)Members of the Twin
Commander Flight Group.
Jim has been gracious enough to let anyone interested in Commanders
participate in the email net with the hopes that they see the enormous value
of our vast wisdom, experience, wit and bull s#%*! and be inspired to join
the TCFG.
Wing Commander Gordon
(member #0001, if I may flaunt it)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
OK - if WCG has grabbed Memb.No. 0001, I'm going to grab 007.
Well, I think Commander Bond is rather apt. That was his number, and I've got a
bond with Commanders.
Can you register that please, Capt. Jimbob, before some other bright spark nicks
it!
Hey, and what about 011 for Crunk Minor. (well 011 could be construed as 'oil').
Barry C. ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: MORE NEW MEMBERS!!
|
| In a message dated 12/06/02 11:43:39 Pacific Standard Time,
| nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
|
|
| > I am a little confused, WCG. (Which is the ordinary state of affairs around
| > here.)
| > Are the new members introduced here fee paying members or are they merely
| > list-members. If the latter, how are they entered into the list
| > distribution?
| >
|
| Nico,
|
| I'll leave that for our Fearless Leader, Capt. JimBob to clear up, but ...
|
| My best guess is that Members are just that: (paying)Members of the Twin
| Commander Flight Group.
|
| Jim has been gracious enough to let anyone interested in Commanders
| participate in the email net with the hopes that they see the enormous value
| of our vast wisdom, experience, wit and bull s#%*! and be inspired to join
| the TCFG.
|
| Wing Commander Gordon
| (member #0001, if I may flaunt it)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
> Jim has been gracious enough to let anyone interested in Commanders
> participate in the email net with the hopes that they see the enormous
value
> of our vast wisdom, experience, wit and bull s#%*! and be inspired to join
> the TCFG.
It worked for me, although I was really waiting for the courts to stop my Ex
from purloining my money.
> Wing Commander Gordon
> (member #0001, if I may flaunt it)
Hey! where is my number?
You got a number, I want a number, my pretty silver "Membership card" must
have been exposed to high heat and melted flat because I can't see my name
or number on it anywhere.
Tom :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: MORE NEW MEMBERS!!
>
> In a message dated 12/06/02 11:43:39 Pacific Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
>
> > I am a little confused, WCG. (Which is the ordinary state of affairs
around
> > here.)
> > Are the new members introduced here fee paying members or are they
merely
> > list-members. If the latter, how are they entered into the list
> > distribution?
> >
>
> Nico,
>
> I'll leave that for our Fearless Leader, Capt. JimBob to clear up, but ...
>
> My best guess is that Members are just that: (paying)Members of the Twin
> Commander Flight Group.
>
> Jim has been gracious enough to let anyone interested in Commanders
> participate in the email net with the hopes that they see the enormous
value
> of our vast wisdom, experience, wit and bull s#%*! and be inspired to join
> the TCFG.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
> (member #0001, if I may flaunt it)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pick a Number, Any Number |
In a message dated 12/06/02 13:22:01 Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
> Hey! where is my number? You got a number, I want a number,
Uh oh. What have I done now? I didn't mean to start any kind of "pecking
order."
I was just trying to build up some pride in TCFG membership.
Of course, making Sir Barry #007 does make sense.
But do let us remeber that James Bond's superiors all have letters and not
numbers ...
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnSpray(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Geared vs other than geared |
In a message dated 12/5/02 9:02:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
n414c(at)direcway.com writes:
> After 2 years do you really think you will get the purchase price plus the
> cost of a conversion back?
>
thank you Dr. Milt: You have just hit the nail on the head.
capn spray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnSpray(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
I failed to mention my MP. I was in the power chart at 65% power and my MP
was 29.5". At this MP I indicate 180 MPH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pick a Number, Any Number |
CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> But do let us remeber that James Bond's superiors all have letters and not
> numbers ...
Well then...that pretty much makes me "Q" then doesn't it? (which
certainly in no way implies any superiority to much more than a head of
lettuce)
Hmm, maybe not. Could be confused with "The Q" of Star Trek fame....
Of course all my engineer geek friends would first think of the slope of
a bandpass filter...no, that's not good. When talking, someone might
think I was refering to "queue", and I've never been that great with
numerical theory so that won't work. I don't put blue chalk on my head
and hit balls with it so that's not a fit... never mind......
Just Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
Where is Ponte Verde, Florida?
bilbo
Clermont, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pick a Number, Any Number |
Well somebody has got to do it. It might as well be me. IS THE NUMBER 69
AVAILABLE?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pick a Number, Any Number
>
>
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> > But do let us remeber that James Bond's superiors all have letters and
not
> > numbers ...
>
> Well then...that pretty much makes me "Q" then doesn't it? (which
> certainly in no way implies any superiority to much more than a head of
> lettuce)
> Hmm, maybe not. Could be confused with "The Q" of Star Trek fame....
> Of course all my engineer geek friends would first think of the slope of
> a bandpass filter...no, that's not good. When talking, someone might
> think I was refering to "queue", and I've never been that great with
> numerical theory so that won't work. I don't put blue chalk on my head
> and hit balls with it so that's not a fit... never mind......
>
> Just Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JBOBSTER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
an elite community near Jacksonville, FL
Jim C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
Well I seem to have mis-conscrewed the Ponte Vedra to Ponte Verde. Maybe a
little dyslexic. I'm not sure who Jim C is but, I think I saw this 500 in
Leesburg Fl. If it is the same one, It is DROP DEAD GORGEOUS 500. However
sometimes the door key is nowhere to be found.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <JBOBSTER(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: MORE NEW MEMBERS!!
>
> an elite community near Jacksonville, FL
>
> Jim C
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JBOBSTER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
Jim C
...is Jim Carroll from Seattle, WA
...Commander wannabe
....182 owner for now....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
In a message dated 12/6/02 1:21:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
> I'm going to grab 007.
NO, NO, NO...I am 007, James (jimbob, get it) OH well, I guess I can share.
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
In a message dated 12/6/02 6:06:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> However
> sometimes the door key is nowhere to be found.
>
Your will work, Commander only made ONE key!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pick a Number, Any Number |
In a message dated 12/06/02 17:30:30 Pacific Standard Time,
chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> I don't put blue chalk on my head
> and hit balls with it so that's not a fit... never mind......
Chris,
Promise you'll never leave.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pick a Number, Any Number |
In a message dated 12/06/02 17:45:08 Pacific Standard Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> Well somebody has got to do it. It might as well be me. IS THE NUMBER 69
> AVAILABLE?
Milt has it.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MORE NEW MEMBERS!! |
Mine didn't work the day he needed it.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: MORE NEW MEMBERS!!
>
> In a message dated 12/6/02 6:06:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, w.bow(at)att.net
> writes:
>
> > However
> > sometimes the door key is nowhere to be found.
> >
>
> Your will work, Commander only made ONE key!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions regarding the 680FL |
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
>I find that if I stick the cans in just under the cowling on top of the
>engines (secured with duct tape of course, so they don't rattle around
>during take-off and cruise...),
>
>>>
>>>It sure is good to see you Californy guys discover the many uses of duct tape.
Hell, it's even more important than getting a new set of wheels for your house!
>>>
Like I always say, "If you can't fix it with duct tape, it probably
ain't worth fixin!"
Crunk
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Folks,
I picked up these trivia snippets from a local rag in Conejo Valley, written
by Janet Spencer. I will post them as I go along. Quite interesting.
Especially this one about Bob Hoover. It couldn't have been in a Commander,
I am sure:
Bob Hoover was in his stunt plane when the engine went dead, leaving him
without enough altitude to get back to the runway. As he approached the
airport it looked like he was going to crash into the chain-link fence
surrounding the runway. Just at that moment a truck happened to be passing
by on the road. Hoover managed to bounce his wheels off the top of the
truck, giving him sufficient altitude to clear the fence and land safely.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Pick a Number, Any Number |
I dunno, bilo, I already have that number on my Aerostar, N69MF.
KJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bow
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pick a Number, Any Number
Well somebody has got to do it. It might as well be me. IS THE NUMBER 69
AVAILABLE?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pick a Number, Any Number
>
>
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> > But do let us remeber that James Bond's superiors all have letters and
not
> > numbers ...
>
> Well then...that pretty much makes me "Q" then doesn't it? (which
> certainly in no way implies any superiority to much more than a head of
> lettuce)
> Hmm, maybe not. Could be confused with "The Q" of Star Trek fame....
> Of course all my engineer geek friends would first think of the slope of
> a bandpass filter...no, that's not good. When talking, someone might
> think I was refering to "queue", and I've never been that great with
> numerical theory so that won't work. I don't put blue chalk on my head
> and hit balls with it so that's not a fit... never mind......
>
> Just Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pick a Number, Any Number |
>
> I dunno, bilo, I already have that number on my Aerostar, N69MF.
>
> KJ
That certainly has some inferences.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Keith,
I'm confused over an entry inthe Type Certificate Data Sheet, primarily as a
result of helping the FlightSim guys with their model of the 520 Commander.
The TCDS says that the Datum is "Located 152 inches forward of wing leading
edge".
Now, that seems to put it about 2ft in front of the nose. To me, it looks like
"152" is an error for "102".
Also, the C.G. range, to my untrained eye, is both pretty narrow (+168.6 to
+175.1) and quite a bit further back than looks right.
The FlightSim guys are using a quarter wing cord as their C.G., and many other
items are referenced in feet from this point, but the manufacturer's figure is
also built into the equation.
Have you any comments which will put my mind at rest? I don't want to give them
bad data, then when we get the FlightSim 520 to use, it won't fly!!!! Much of
this applies to a host of Models, so we need to clarify it for 'The Book'
anyway.
Thanks!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Capt Jimbob,
I'm just working on the November FAA changes, and will be forwarding the usual
file to later on tonight, or tomorrow.
In the meantime though, I'm confused over an entry in the Type Certificate Data
Sheet, primarily as a result of helping the FlightSim guys with their model of
the 520 Commander.
The TCDS says that the Datum is "Located 152 inches forward of wing leading
edge".
Now, that seems to put it about 2ft in front of the nose. To me, it looks like
"152" is an error for "102".
Also, the C.G. range, to my untrained eye, is both pretty narrow (+168.6 to
+175.1) and quite a bit further back than looks right.
The FlightSim guys are using a quarter wing cord as their C.G., and many other
items are referenced in feet from this point, but the manufacturer's figure is
also built into the equation.
Have you any comments which will put my mind at rest? I don't want to give them
bad data, then when we get the FlightSim 520 to use, it won't fly!!!!
Thanks!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Barry,
I don't have the TC handy but the manual shows the first bulkhead frame of
the plane @ -22.5" and the wing leading edge at about 105". The nose dome
screws to the first bulkhead and extends forward approx 4".
After looking thru the manual some more I found the listed specs for flap
area.
They say it's 37.2 sq.ft. (Aileron area is 20.52 sq.ft.)
They also list MAC as 72.12". They also list the C.G.range in % of MAC as
forward limit 23% and aft limit 32%. They also list the location of MAC from
the centerline at 110.2"
The dihedral of the main wing is 4 degrees and the dihedral of the tail is
10 degrees. ( the forward sweep from the root is 14 degrees.)
They also say that the '0" station is approximately 27" aft of the nose.
(The approximation comes from a hand hammered nose bowl.)
(Most airliners put the datum point out in front of the airplane so weight
and balance computations only use positive numbers.)
For what it's worth. :-)
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
Well, as you can guess, my last two messages should have been sent to Jim
Metzger and Keith Gordon.
But, hey, if anyone else has some input - then great!
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Commander-List: Model 520
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
|
| Hi Keith,
|
| I'm confused over an entry inthe Type Certificate Data Sheet, primarily as a
| result of helping the FlightSim guys with their model of the 520 Commander.
|
| The TCDS says that the Datum is "Located 152 inches forward of wing leading
| edge".
|
| Now, that seems to put it about 2ft in front of the nose. To me, it looks like
| "152" is an error for "102".
|
| Also, the C.G. range, to my untrained eye, is both pretty narrow (+168.6 to
| +175.1) and quite a bit further back than looks right.
|
| The FlightSim guys are using a quarter wing cord as their C.G., and many other
| items are referenced in feet from this point, but the manufacturer's figure is
| also built into the equation.
|
| Have you any comments which will put my mind at rest? I don't want to give
them
| bad data, then when we get the FlightSim 520 to use, it won't fly!!!! Much of
| this applies to a host of Models, so we need to clarify it for 'The Book'
| anyway.
|
| Thanks!
|
| Very Best Regards,
|
| Barry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Crunk!
I've got drawings, which show the leading edge of the wing is 102" aft of datum.
The first bulkhead is indeed at -22.5
The flap area is interesting, because Chris Haag & I reckon the figure of 37.2
sq.ft
includes the non-moveable area of the rear nacelle itself. I'll have do get my
ruler
to the drawing and do some rough calculations. We need to know for sure!
So, once again, my sincere thanks are due to you Jim.
Is it raining where you are? Yes? Then that'll explain the swift responses.
No? Then why aren't you out flying??!!!!!
Sincere Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520
|
| Barry,
| I don't have the TC handy but the manual shows the first bulkhead frame of
| the plane @ -22.5" and the wing leading edge at about 105". The nose dome
| screws to the first bulkhead and extends forward approx 4".
| After looking thru the manual some more I found the listed specs for flap
| area.
| They say it's 37.2 sq.ft. (Aileron area is 20.52 sq.ft.)
| They also list MAC as 72.12". They also list the C.G.range in % of MAC as
| forward limit 23% and aft limit 32%. They also list the location of MAC from
| the centerline at 110.2"
| The dihedral of the main wing is 4 degrees and the dihedral of the tail is
| 10 degrees. ( the forward sweep from the root is 14 degrees.)
| They also say that the '0" station is approximately 27" aft of the nose.
| (The approximation comes from a hand hammered nose bowl.)
| (Most airliners put the datum point out in front of the airplane so weight
| and balance computations only use positive numbers.)
| For what it's worth. :-)
| Crunk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/07/02 12:23:39 Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
> Have you any comments which will put my mind at rest? I don't want to give
> them
> bad data, then when we get the FlightSim 520 to use, it won't fly!!!! Much
> of
> this applies to a host of Models, so we need to clarify it for 'The Book'
> anyway.
Sir Barry,
Put your mind to rest? HA! I have only added doubt and torment for you.
In flying the various models and making up weight and balance worksheets, I
came across two different datums.
Unfortunately, I can't recall when exactly (in production) the datum was
changed, but I remember calling it into question as well.
Whilst at Down Town Airpark in 1994, Pete Peterson (in his 70s then, and a
real treasure chest of information on Commanders) explained it to me.
The datum was either referenced to the nose, or, another point on the
fuselage (the leading edge of the wing?) but either way, ended up at a point
in space forward of the nose so all moments were positive, when working
weight and balance computations.
The CG range you mention on the 520 doesn't sound out of reason; but remember
that CG range was increased via Service Letter later on and I *think* that
had to do with the bobweight installation, much later than the TDC was
published for that model.
Wish I had big, authoritative answers for you, but I only have feeble
recollections. I mean, after all, you are asking questions that involve math
and I HATE math.
Wing Commander Gordon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/07/02 12:56:30 Pacific Standard Time,
crunk12(at)bellsouth.net writes:
> I don't have the TC handy but the manual shows the first bulkhead frame of
> the plane @ -22.5" and the wing leading edge at about 105".
Thanks, Crunk.
That reminds me: I also discoverd that Weight and Balance datums DO NOT
relate to frame stations, as one might think is logical.
That's what I tripped over, and led me to research just what the heck the
datum WAS based on ... I was trying to relate the datum to a frame station on
the 680-FL and it just didn't match anything structural that was a clear "Ah
ha!"
Thanks for posting those numbers.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Sneed" <srglenn1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney |
Many of this generation ignored or think it is silly when you say "Dec.7th,
less we forget".
Well, lets us all remember those who gave life and limb for the freedom we
have today.
Bongo52
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney |
That memorial at Pearl Harbor sends chills through me every time I go. It's
even better now with the "Mighty Mo" standing guard over the Arizona.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Sneed" <srglenn1(at)msn.com>
Subject: Commander-List: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney
>
> Many of this generation ignored or think it is silly when you say
"Dec.7th,
> less we forget".
>
> Well, lets us all remember those who gave life and limb for the freedom we
> have today.
>
> Bongo52
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney |
The only (small) way we can repay those who lay their lives on the line for
those who remain in warm beds and have warm meals at home, is to go and
vote. The majority is getting smaller and smaller every year. And more
activist. The country's already got a hangover.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Sneed" <srglenn1(at)msn.com>
Subject: Commander-List: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney
>
> Many of this generation ignored or think it is silly when you say
"Dec.7th,
> less we forget".
>
> Well, lets us all remember those who gave life and limb for the freedom we
> have today.
>
> Bongo52
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Campbell" <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
My wt and balance was done a little over a year ago. It reports the distance from
the datum to the mains as 189 in, cg 174, gross wt 4114,
I assume the datum is the tip of the nose. The arm of the nose wheel is 28.6
I really beleive the Commander unloaded is aft of the CG, since when I'm flying
alone and aerobrake the nose wheelp quite easily
Bruce CAmpbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/7/02 12:23:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
> Also, the C.G. range, to my untrained eye, is both pretty narrow (+168.6 to
> +175.1) and quite a bit further back than looks right.
>
HI BARRY....That sounds correct. The CG rang for my 680E is 166.1 - 175.12.
Considering the added fuselage length, I think the expanded ranges seems
correct. Also, My Datum is also 152 inch forward of the LE of the wing. The
MFG can establish a "datum" anyplace they chose and by extending it out in
front of the nose, if simplifies W & B calculations as all the numbers are
positive. Thanks for the updates, I had 3 new members from the last
mailing!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney |
In a message dated 12/7/02 2:28:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, srglenn1(at)msn.com
writes:
> Well, lets us all remember those who gave life and limb for the freedom we
> have today.
>
AND DON'T BUY JAPANESE CARS!! Like Mitsubishi (made the zero), Kawasaki
(made a dive bomber) I drive a Cadillac jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney |
Be careful JB. It maybe hard to be completely Japanese free. Even with a
Catarak.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney
>
> In a message dated 12/7/02 2:28:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
srglenn1(at)msn.com
> writes:
>
> > Well, lets us all remember those who gave life and limb for the freedom
we
> > have today.
> >
>
> AND DON'T BUY JAPANESE CARS!! Like Mitsubishi (made the zero), Kawasaki
> (made a dive bomber) I drive a Cadillac jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Monk <britmonk(at)adelphia.net> |
I guess that all this about cg limits and datum's is obvious to most
people by now. So I'll just add one or two comments for interest:
The original fuselage datum 0.0 was based on L3805 nose datum and was
used for fuselage stations for ever more. This was logical since the
stations quoted in your manuals are the fuselage datum's for major
components such as frames, bulkheads etc. and Aero Commander used much
of the same tooling and parts for the whole production run of Twin
Commanders. Since various fuselage plug inserts were used to lengthen
the fuselage, the station dimensions changed occasionally but a look at
the various model station diagrams will show the common sections (the
frame spacing is the best clue).
The early Commanders, (520, 560, 560A, 680) used essentially the same
wing configuration so the 21.2 sq. ft. flap area and 20.52 aileron area
should be constant among these models (by the 695B the aileron area was
still the same and the flap area almost so - 20.80). The fuselage
station for the wing L/E was 102.0 and the forward and aft c.g. limits
were around STA 116 to 125. The different models would vary by an inch
or two, probably due to fuselage length changes. Of course the later
models also used the same wing configuration, but with a center section
insert to increase the span.
As mentioned, he cg datum's were chosen far forward, but not always
forward of the nose, so adding radar could be a negative balance, for
example.
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 12/7/02 12:23:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
>
>>Also, the C.G. range, to my untrained eye, is both pretty narrow (+168.6 to
>>+175.1) and quite a bit further back than looks right.
>>
>
>HI BARRY....That sounds correct. The CG rang for my 680E is 166.1 - 175.12.
>Considering the added fuselage length, I think the expanded ranges seems
>correct. Also, My Datum is also 152 inch forward of the LE of the wing. The
>MFG can establish a "datum" anyplace they chose and by extending it out in
>front of the nose, if simplifies W & B calculations as all the numbers are
>positive. Thanks for the updates, I had 3 new members from the last
>mailing!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney |
Isn't a Mercedes Benz a Chrysler now?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney
>
> In a message dated 12/7/02 2:28:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
srglenn1(at)msn.com
> writes:
>
> > Well, lets us all remember those who gave life and limb for the freedom
we
> > have today.
> >
>
> AND DON'T BUY JAPANESE CARS!! Like Mitsubishi (made the zero), Kawasaki
> (made a dive bomber) I drive a Cadillac jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney |
It depends on the class, C, E or S. My S cars were MB. The CLK I just sold
was a "rattle trap". I never had a Chrysler.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney
>
> Isn't a Mercedes Benz a Chrysler now?
> Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: December 7 - A Day That Will Live in Infiney
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 12/7/02 2:28:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> srglenn1(at)msn.com
> > writes:
> >
> > > Well, lets us all remember those who gave life and limb for the
freedom
> we
> > > have today.
> > >
> >
> > AND DON'T BUY JAPANESE CARS!! Like Mitsubishi (made the zero),
Kawasaki
> > (made a dive bomber) I drive a Cadillac jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Santa (not for young children) |
Be careful out there!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Santa (not for young children) |
I tried to embed an image in the Email but it did not work.
Any suggestions?
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
>
> Be careful out there!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Santa (not for young children) |
Drop back 10 and kick!!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
>
> I tried to embed an image in the Email but it did not work.
> Any suggestions?
> Tom...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
>
>
>
> >
> > Be careful out there!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Victor C. Rupert" <V-Man7(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Santa (not for young children) |
Look at the botton of your email and go to the photo share link and post
your photo...
V-Man
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
>
> Drop back 10 and kick!!
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
>
>
>
> >
> > I tried to embed an image in the Email but it did not work.
> > Any suggestions?
> > Tom...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> > To:
> > Subject: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Be careful out there!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Santa (not for young children) |
I managed to read that method in the FAQ and did send the image to the
gallery.
I believe this means that members might trip over a time sensitive image
that I sent to our group.
Maybe when I want members to see a time sensitive image I will first send it
to the gallery, wait for it to be scanned and posted then I will send an
Email to the group to go and view the image.
Am I correct in this requirement & order of the steps?
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor C. Rupert" <V-Man7(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
>
> Look at the botton of your email and go to the photo share link and post
> your photo...
>
> V-Man
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
>
>
> >
> > Drop back 10 and kick!!
> >
> > bilbo
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I tried to embed an image in the Email but it did not work.
> > > Any suggestions?
> > > Tom...
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Commander-List: Santa (not for young children)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Be careful out there!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Subject: December 7th
> > Check out this page and read some of the survivor stories. Makes the
> > movie seem flat.
> > > http://my.execpc.com/~dschaaf/personal.html
Jim A
N444BD
----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | One of those days! |
HI KIDS. Well, I hadn't flow triple two in about 2 weeks and it is going to
be raining hear for the foreseeable future, so I decided to go around the
patch. Great TO, man I love those engines!! Rolled the gear out from under
her ad climbed smartly into a strong east wind.
When it was time to land I called for the gear and noticed the left
main was a little sleepy, went for flaps and at 1/3 they stopped. Checked
the hyd press, "0."
I looked at the home drome and decided that landing on 2300 feet, over
the trees with "maybe" brakes was not the wisest choice so I flew to
Troutdale, OR, just across the river. Landed without incedent and bumed a
ride home. Still don't know what is wrong, Hyd fluid is everywhere in the
left nacelle.
Oh well........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: One of those days! |
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
> Still don't know what is wrong, Hyd fluid is everywhere in the
> left nacelle.
> Oh well........jb
>
Sheesh! Glad you and your plane are OK. One of my commercial driver
buddies (FedEx DC-10) talks about looking at the HYDRAULIC press
*constantly* on approach...it's something I've tried to incorporate in
my scan, both before and after the gear come down. However, it's a
little different going around the patch, especially in 680E where by the
time you turn downwind it's already time for the gear! So, I'm not
pickin' on you, JB! :) Anyway, I know most of you already do this, but
I thought I'd just add it for consideration.
I flew my 680E today as well (musta been something in the
atmoshphere!). Flew a triangle "cargo" run from Chino to Torrance to
Whiteman (Burbank) and back to Chino. TOA is a noise sensitive airport
and they'll fine you if you ring their little noise sensors too much.
Man, a max. performance TO in a 680E is something to behold. I pulled
the nose off at 90 knots (red line plus 10) and kept it there. The
result? A 2200 fpm sustained climb! Well, sustained until I pulled the
power off for noise abatement....but even at 2700 R's and 35 in. MAP and
90 knots, I was still doing well over 1000 fpm....man I love the
performance of that airplane.
Hey, on another topic, are there any ex-military fighter or SOP guys
among us? If so, All Red Star is putting on a simulated air war
scenario in the desert in Feb. If you're interested in participating as
a WSO/instructor, please contact me off list.
Cheers,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | One of those days! |
Hope it is just a loose line.
Jim A
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: One of those days!
HI KIDS. Well, I hadn't flow triple two in about 2 weeks and it is going to
be raining hear for the foreseeable future, so I decided to go around the
patch. Great TO, man I love those engines!! Rolled the gear out from under
her ad climbed smartly into a strong east wind.
When it was time to land I called for the gear and noticed the left
main was a little sleepy, went for flaps and at 1/3 they stopped. Checked
the hyd press, "0."
I looked at the home drome and decided that landing on 2300 feet,
over
the trees with "maybe" brakes was not the wisest choice so I flew to
Troutdale, OR, just across the river. Landed without incedent and bumed a
ride home. Still don't know what is wrong, Hyd fluid is everywhere in the
left nacelle.
Oh well........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Keeping the Faith |
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
By Frank Schaeffer
Tuesday, November 26, 2002; Page A29
Washington Post
Before my son became a Marine, I never thought much about who was
defending
me. Now when I read of the war on terrorism or the coming conflict in
Iraq,
it cuts to my heart. When I see a picture of a member of our military who
has been killed, I read his or her name very carefully. Sometimes I cry.
In 1999, when the barrel-chested Marine recruiter showed up in dress
blues
and bedazzled my son John, I did not stand in the way. John was
headstrong,
and he seemed to understand these stern, clean men with straight backs
and
flawless uniforms. I did not. I live on the Volvo-driving, higher
education-worshiping North Shore of Boston. I write novels for a
living. I
have never served in the military.
It had been hard enough sending my two older children off to Georgetown
and
New York University. John's enlisting was unexpected, so deeply
unsettling.
I did not relish the prospect of answering the question "So where is John
going to college?" from the parents who were itching to tell me all about
how their son or daughter was going to Harvard. At the private high
school
John attended, no other students were going into the military.
"But aren't the Marines terribly Southern?" asked one perplexed mother
while
standing next to me at the brunch following graduation. "What a waste, he
was such a good student," said another parent. One parent (a professor
at a
nearby and rather famous university) spoke up at a school meeting and
suggested that the school should "carefully evaluate what went wrong."
When John graduated from three months of boot camp on Parris Island,
3,000
parents and friends were on the parade deck stands. We parents and our
Marines not only were of many races but also were representative of many
economic classes. Many were poor. Some arrived crammed in the backs of
pickups, others by bus. John told me that a lot of parents could not
afford
the trip.
We in the audience were white and Native American. We were Hispanic, Arab
and African American and Asian. We were former Marines wearing the scars
of
battle, or at least baseball caps emblazoned with battles' names. We were
Southern whites from Nashville and skinheads from New Jersey, black kids
from Cleveland wearing ghetto rags and white ex-cons with ham-hock
forearms
defaced by jailhouse tattoos. We would not have been mistaken for the
educated and well-heeled parents gathered on the lawns of John's private
school a half-year before.
After graduation one new Marine told John, "Before I was a Marine, if I
had
ever seen you on my block I would've probably killed you just because you
were standing there." This was a serious statement from one of John's
good
friends, an African American ex-gang member from Detroit who, as John
said,
"would die for me now, just like I'd die for him."
My son has connected me to my country in a way that I was too selfish and
insular to experience before. I feel closer to the waitress at our local
diner than to some of my oldest friends. She has two sons in the Corps.
They
are facing the same dangers as my boy. When the guy who fixes my car
asks me
how John is doing, I know he means it. His younger brother is in the
Navy.
Why were I and the other parents at my son's private school so surprised
by
his choice? During World War II, the sons and daughters of the most
powerful
and educated families did their bit. If the immorality of the Vietnam War
was the only reason those lucky enough to go to college dodged the draft,
why did we not encourage our children to volunteer for military service
once
that war was done?
Have we wealthy and educated Americans all become pacifists? Is the
world a
safe place? Or have we just gotten used to having somebody else defend
us?
What is the future of our democracy when the sons and daughters of the
janitors at our elite universities are far more likely to be put in
harm's
way than are any of the students whose dorms their parents clean?
I feel shame because it took my son's joining the Marine Corps to make me
take notice of who is defending me. I feel hope because perhaps my son is
part of a future "greatest generation." As the storm clouds of war
gather,
at least I know that I can look the men and women in uniform in the eye.
My
son is one of them. He is the best I have to offer. He is my heart.
Frank Schaeffer is a writer. His latest book, co-written with his son,
Marine Cpl. John Schaeffer, is "Keeping Faith: A Father-Son Story About
Love
and the United States Marine Corps."
2002 The Washington Post Company
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Keeping the Faith |
Barry,
Thanks for relaying this message to us.
Frank has touched on an ill in our society that has caused more harm to this
country than any other visible force could ever do. And that is lethargy.
It is a very moving story and I appreciated it.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Keeping the Faith
>
>
> By Frank Schaeffer
> Tuesday, November 26, 2002; Page A29
> Washington Post
>
>
> Before my son became a Marine, I never thought much about who was
> defending
> me. Now when I read of the war on terrorism or the coming conflict in
> Iraq,
> it cuts to my heart. When I see a picture of a member of our military who
> has been killed, I read his or her name very carefully. Sometimes I cry.
>
> In 1999, when the barrel-chested Marine recruiter showed up in dress
> blues
> and bedazzled my son John, I did not stand in the way. John was
> headstrong,
> and he seemed to understand these stern, clean men with straight backs
> and
> flawless uniforms. I did not. I live on the Volvo-driving, higher
> education-worshiping North Shore of Boston. I write novels for a
> living. I
> have never served in the military.
>
> It had been hard enough sending my two older children off to Georgetown
> and
> New York University. John's enlisting was unexpected, so deeply
> unsettling.
> I did not relish the prospect of answering the question "So where is John
> going to college?" from the parents who were itching to tell me all about
> how their son or daughter was going to Harvard. At the private high
> school
> John attended, no other students were going into the military.
>
> "But aren't the Marines terribly Southern?" asked one perplexed mother
> while
> standing next to me at the brunch following graduation. "What a waste, he
> was such a good student," said another parent. One parent (a professor
> at a
> nearby and rather famous university) spoke up at a school meeting and
> suggested that the school should "carefully evaluate what went wrong."
>
> When John graduated from three months of boot camp on Parris Island,
> 3,000
> parents and friends were on the parade deck stands. We parents and our
> Marines not only were of many races but also were representative of many
> economic classes. Many were poor. Some arrived crammed in the backs of
> pickups, others by bus. John told me that a lot of parents could not
> afford
> the trip.
>
> We in the audience were white and Native American. We were Hispanic, Arab
> and African American and Asian. We were former Marines wearing the scars
> of
> battle, or at least baseball caps emblazoned with battles' names. We were
> Southern whites from Nashville and skinheads from New Jersey, black kids
> from Cleveland wearing ghetto rags and white ex-cons with ham-hock
> forearms
> defaced by jailhouse tattoos. We would not have been mistaken for the
> educated and well-heeled parents gathered on the lawns of John's private
> school a half-year before.
>
> After graduation one new Marine told John, "Before I was a Marine, if I
> had
> ever seen you on my block I would've probably killed you just because you
> were standing there." This was a serious statement from one of John's
> good
> friends, an African American ex-gang member from Detroit who, as John
> said,
> "would die for me now, just like I'd die for him."
>
> My son has connected me to my country in a way that I was too selfish and
> insular to experience before. I feel closer to the waitress at our local
> diner than to some of my oldest friends. She has two sons in the Corps.
> They
> are facing the same dangers as my boy. When the guy who fixes my car
> asks me
> how John is doing, I know he means it. His younger brother is in the
> Navy.
>
> Why were I and the other parents at my son's private school so surprised
> by
> his choice? During World War II, the sons and daughters of the most
> powerful
> and educated families did their bit. If the immorality of the Vietnam War
> was the only reason those lucky enough to go to college dodged the draft,
> why did we not encourage our children to volunteer for military service
> once
> that war was done?
>
> Have we wealthy and educated Americans all become pacifists? Is the
> world a
> safe place? Or have we just gotten used to having somebody else defend
> us?
> What is the future of our democracy when the sons and daughters of the
> janitors at our elite universities are far more likely to be put in
> harm's
> way than are any of the students whose dorms their parents clean?
>
> I feel shame because it took my son's joining the Marine Corps to make me
> take notice of who is defending me. I feel hope because perhaps my son is
> part of a future "greatest generation." As the storm clouds of war
> gather,
> at least I know that I can look the men and women in uniform in the eye.
> My
> son is one of them. He is the best I have to offer. He is my heart.
>
> Frank Schaeffer is a writer. His latest book, co-written with his son,
> Marine Cpl. John Schaeffer, is "Keeping Faith: A Father-Son Story About
> Love
> and the United States Marine Corps."
>
>
> 2002 The Washington Post Company
>
>
> Barry Hancock
> All Red Star
> (949) 300-5510
> radialpower(at)cox.net
> www.allredstar.com
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sneed, Glen" <Glen.Sneed(at)qwest.com> |
| Subject: | Keeping the Faith |
Barry,
DITTO!!! with Nico.
And if the time ever comes when one of us needs to ' Stand In Harms Way ',
we have the courage too.
In the words of Todd Beamer: "Let's Roll"
Bongo52
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Hancock [mailto:radialpower(at)cox.net]
Subject: Commander-List: Keeping the Faith
By Frank Schaeffer
Tuesday, November 26, 2002; Page A29
Washington Post
Before my son became a Marine, I never thought much about who was
defending ...... and the United States Marine Corps."
2002 The Washington Post Company
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Keeping the Faith |
I agree!!!!!!
Jim A
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sneed,
Glen
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Keeping the Faith
Barry,
DITTO!!! with Nico.
And if the time ever comes when one of us needs to ' Stand In Harms Way ',
we have the courage too.
In the words of Todd Beamer: "Let's Roll"
Bongo52
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Hancock [mailto:radialpower(at)cox.net]
Subject: Commander-List: Keeping the Faith
By Frank Schaeffer
Tuesday, November 26, 2002; Page A29
Washington Post
Before my son became a Marine, I never thought much about who was
defending ...... and the United States Marine Corps."
2002 The Washington Post Company
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HU KIDS.....A $30 hoes, 2 gal of 5606 and a frustrating 2 hours of work in
the rain and triple 2 is ready to fly again. I will try to move her back
home tomorrow. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Unfortunately I have been there done that. Glad it was not more serious.
Jim A
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: ITS FIXED
HU KIDS.....A $30 hoes, 2 gal of 5606 and a frustrating 2 hours of work in
the rain and triple 2 is ready to fly again. I will try to move her back
home tomorrow. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
Hey JB,
Tell me how you got the gear down and got it stopped....
Thanks!
Barry
On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:09 PM, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> HU KIDS.....A $30 hoes, 2 gal of 5606 and a frustrating 2 hours of work
> in
> the rain and triple 2 is ready to fly again. I will try to move her
> back
> home tomorrow. jb
>
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Tom Fisher ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Tom Fisher
Subject: Santa (not for young childern)
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca.12.10.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
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--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
Pardon me for being the "whiney heiny". My 500A is STILL sitting in TLH.
The exhaust pipe blew on Halloween and, AWI has had it twice. It was
supposed to be fixed the week before
Thanksgiving.............................I'M WAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ITS FIXED
>
> Hey JB,
>
> Tell me how you got the gear down and got it stopped....
>
> Thanks!
>
> Barry
> On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:09 PM, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > HU KIDS.....A $30 hoes, 2 gal of 5606 and a frustrating 2 hours of work
> > in
> > the rain and triple 2 is ready to fly again. I will try to move her
> > back
> > home tomorrow. jb
> >
> >
> Barry Hancock
> All Red Star
> (949) 300-5510
> radialpower(at)cox.net
> www.allredstar.com
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I thought they would have had it fixed before now but I think I may have a
stack (the upper part)I can loan you if it isn't fixed soon.
Jim A
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bow
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ITS FIXED
Pardon me for being the "whiney heiny". My 500A is STILL sitting in TLH.
The exhaust pipe blew on Halloween and, AWI has had it twice. It was
supposed to be fixed the week before
Thanksgiving.............................I'M WAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ITS FIXED
>
> Hey JB,
>
> Tell me how you got the gear down and got it stopped....
>
> Thanks!
>
> Barry
> On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:09 PM, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > HU KIDS.....A $30 hoes, 2 gal of 5606 and a frustrating 2 hours of work
> > in
> > the rain and triple 2 is ready to fly again. I will try to move her
> > back
> > home tomorrow. jb
> >
> >
> Barry Hancock
> All Red Star
> (949) 300-5510
> radialpower(at)cox.net
> www.allredstar.com
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
Yeah, and I've been waiting 3 years for my CJ project to be done. This
past May it was supposed to be done by August.....but you don't hear me
sniffling in my pillow! :)
Barry
On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:47 PM, Bow wrote:
>
> Pardon me for being the "whiney heiny". My 500A is STILL sitting in
> TLH.
> The exhaust pipe blew on Halloween and, AWI has had it twice. It was
> supposed to be fixed the week before
> Thanksgiving.............................I'M WAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: ITS FIXED
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hey JB,
>>
>> Tell me how you got the gear down and got it stopped....
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Barry
>> On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:09 PM, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> HU KIDS.....A $30 hoes, 2 gal of 5606 and a frustrating 2 hours of
>>> work
>>> in
>>> the rain and triple 2 is ready to fly again. I will try to move her
>>> back
>>> home tomorrow. jb
>>>
>>>
>> Barry Hancock
>> All Red Star
>> (949) 300-5510
>> radialpower(at)cox.net
>> www.allredstar.com
>> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
>>
>>
>
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/10/02 8:26:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
radialpower(at)cox.net writes:
> Tell me how you got the gear down and got it stopped....
>
> Thanks!
The gear free fell and I used the hand pump to stop, after switching to the
"brakes only" on the selector. Worked fine. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
How much did you pump the hand pump? And do you know how much fluid you
had left when you stopped?
Thanks,
B
On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 11:41 PM, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/10/02 8:26:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> radialpower(at)cox.net writes:
>
>> Tell me how you got the gear down and got it stopped....
>>
>> Thanks!
>
> The gear free fell and I used the hand pump to stop, after switching to
> the
> "brakes only" on the selector. Worked fine. jb
>
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
Gents,
Do we still have both the tech chat room and the regular chat room? At the
present time I simply do not have the time to go through all of the regular
"friendly chat".
Thanks!
Moe Mills
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barshalom(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Hydraulic Pump Parts |
Good Morning CommanderLand!
Have a 500B with IO 540s. I need a rebuild kit for an Eastern Hyd Pump M#
105HBG-211B. Need shaft seal and o-rings. Best deal I have found so far for
the kit is $342.
This pump has bronze bushings. I hear that there is a newer version that has
needle bearings because sometimes the bushings wear allowing leaks. Best deal
i have found for an exchange so far is $1400.
If any one can tell me where to get a better deal or happens to have a pump
laying around please reply.
Thanks,
Bill in TN
N69PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
Barry,,,
I didn't buy a plane in a box. I bought and paid for one in good shape.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ITS FIXED
>
> Yeah, and I've been waiting 3 years for my CJ project to be done. This
> past May it was supposed to be done by August.....but you don't hear me
> sniffling in my pillow! :)
>
> Barry
> On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:47 PM, Bow wrote:
>
> >
> > Pardon me for being the "whiney heiny". My 500A is STILL sitting in
> > TLH.
> > The exhaust pipe blew on Halloween and, AWI has had it twice. It was
> > supposed to be fixed the week before
> > Thanksgiving.............................I'M WAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > bilbo
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: ITS FIXED
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey JB,
> >>
> >> Tell me how you got the gear down and got it stopped....
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Barry
> >> On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:09 PM, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> HU KIDS.....A $30 hoes, 2 gal of 5606 and a frustrating 2 hours of
> >>> work
> >>> in
> >>> the rain and triple 2 is ready to fly again. I will try to move her
> >>> back
> >>> home tomorrow. jb
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Barry Hancock
> >> All Red Star
> >> (949) 300-5510
> >> radialpower(at)cox.net
> >> www.allredstar.com
> >> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> Barry Hancock
> All Red Star
> (949) 300-5510
> radialpower(at)cox.net
> www.allredstar.com
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
>
> I thought they would have had it fixed before now but I think I may have a
> stack (the upper part)I can loan you if it isn't fixed soon.
Thanks Jim,
I hope it will be done this week.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/11/02 6:34:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
radialpower(at)cox.net writes:
> How much did you pump the hand pump? And do you know how much fluid you
> had left when you stopped?
>
HI BARRY.........
I waited until the mains were on the pavement before I switched to "brakes
only" I then applied the brakes and pumped pressure against them. It did not
take a lot of strokes. As I taxied, I just pumped when required to steer.
This happened to me years ago in the 560A but the line that broke was at the
selector valve, so when I pumped, nothing happened. I ran off the end of the
runway (no damage) Since I didn't know what had happened this time, I elected
to go to a looooog runway just in case, as it turns out I could have made the
shorter strip OK. There was no fluid in the resiviour when I stopped jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Pump Parts |
I had very two very good experiences with Paul Finefrock of Thunderbird
Accessories, 406 North Rockwell Ave., Bethany OK 73008 Phone: 405-789-1822.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barshalom(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Pump Parts
>
> Good Morning CommanderLand!
>
> Have a 500B with IO 540s. I need a rebuild kit for an Eastern Hyd Pump M#
> 105HBG-211B. Need shaft seal and o-rings. Best deal I have found so far
for
> the kit is $342.
>
> This pump has bronze bushings. I hear that there is a newer version that
has
> needle bearings because sometimes the bushings wear allowing leaks. Best
deal
> i have found for an exchange so far is $1400.
>
> If any one can tell me where to get a better deal or happens to have a
pump
> laying around please reply.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill in TN
> N69PT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Pump Parts |
Bill,
I was unable to find "kits" for my Pesco Hydraulic Pumps. I had to send
mine to be rebuilt or repaired at a place in Oklahoma. I think Chris S.
knows the place.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barshalom(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Pump Parts
>
> Good Morning CommanderLand!
>
> Have a 500B with IO 540s. I need a rebuild kit for an Eastern Hyd Pump M#
> 105HBG-211B. Need shaft seal and o-rings. Best deal I have found so far
for
> the kit is $342.
>
> This pump has bronze bushings. I hear that there is a newer version that
has
> needle bearings because sometimes the bushings wear allowing leaks. Best
deal
> i have found for an exchange so far is $1400.
>
> If any one can tell me where to get a better deal or happens to have a
pump
> laying around please reply.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill in TN
> N69PT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Pump Parts |
Bill,
I found it. http://www.aircraftaccessoriesofok.com They fixed my Pesco
pump. I think Crunk might have been less than thrilled with them. I'm not
sure. Check with him.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <Barshalom(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Pump Parts
>
> Good Morning CommanderLand!
>
> Have a 500B with IO 540s. I need a rebuild kit for an Eastern Hyd Pump M#
> 105HBG-211B. Need shaft seal and o-rings. Best deal I have found so far
for
> the kit is $342.
>
> This pump has bronze bushings. I hear that there is a newer version that
has
> needle bearings because sometimes the bushings wear allowing leaks. Best
deal
> i have found for an exchange so far is $1400.
>
> If any one can tell me where to get a better deal or happens to have a
pump
> laying around please reply.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill in TN
> N69PT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hydraulic Pump Parts |
For hydraulic pump overhaul try:
Quality Aircraft Accessories
5746 Apache, Bldg. A
Tulsa, OK 74115
Tel: 918-835-6948
Bill Williams
AirMatrix
17705 49th Place N.E., Hangar D
Arlington, WA 98223-7898
tel: 360-435-7343
fax: 360-435-8193
billw@air-matrix.com
www.air-matrix.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bow" <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Pump Parts |
I'm not sure if they work on Hydraulic Pumps, but I had some fuel pumps
repaired by The Aviation Group in Peachtree City, Ga. I WILL NOT GO BACK
THERE.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Boelte" <n55bz@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Pump Parts
<n55bz@cox-internet.com>
>
> I had very two very good experiences with Paul Finefrock of Thunderbird
> Accessories, 406 North Rockwell Ave., Bethany OK 73008 Phone:
405-789-1822.
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Barshalom(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Pump Parts
>
>
> >
> > Good Morning CommanderLand!
> >
> > Have a 500B with IO 540s. I need a rebuild kit for an Eastern Hyd Pump
M#
> > 105HBG-211B. Need shaft seal and o-rings. Best deal I have found so far
> for
> > the kit is $342.
> >
> > This pump has bronze bushings. I hear that there is a newer version that
> has
> > needle bearings because sometimes the bushings wear allowing leaks. Best
> deal
> > i have found for an exchange so far is $1400.
> >
> > If any one can tell me where to get a better deal or happens to have a
> pump
> > laying around please reply.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill in TN
> > N69PT
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
I know, Bow, just giving you crap because I can... :)
B
On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 08:41 AM, Bow wrote:
>
> Barry,,,
>
> I didn't buy a plane in a box. I bought and paid for one in good shape.
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: ITS FIXED
>
>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, and I've been waiting 3 years for my CJ project to be done. This
>> past May it was supposed to be done by August.....but you don't hear me
>> sniffling in my pillow! :)
>>
>> Barry
>> On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:47 PM, Bow wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Pardon me for being the "whiney heiny". My 500A is STILL sitting in
>>> TLH.
>>> The exhaust pipe blew on Halloween and, AWI has had it twice. It was
>>> supposed to be fixed the week before
>>> Thanksgiving.............................I'M WAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> bilbo
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: ITS FIXED
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey JB,
>>>>
>>>> Tell me how you got the gear down and got it stopped....
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Barry
>>>> On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 08:09 PM, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> HU KIDS.....A $30 hoes, 2 gal of 5606 and a frustrating 2 hours of
>>>>> work
>>>>> in
>>>>> the rain and triple 2 is ready to fly again. I will try to move her
>>>>> back
>>>>> home tomorrow. jb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Barry Hancock
>>>> All Red Star
>>>> (949) 300-5510
>>>> radialpower(at)cox.net
>>>> www.allredstar.com
>>>> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Barry Hancock
>> All Red Star
>> (949) 300-5510
>> radialpower(at)cox.net
>> www.allredstar.com
>> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 06:44 AM, MOEMILLS(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Gents,
>
> Do we still have both the tech chat room and the regular chat room? At
> the
> present time I simply do not have the time to go through all of the
> regular
> "friendly chat".
>
> Thanks!
>
>
Moe,
Nope. You can tell by the subject line, generally, what's in the
email. Just exercise your God given write to hit the DELETE key.
ONE WORD TO THE GROUP. As there are many in Moe's situation, we need to
do a better job of making the subject line appropriate when we
respond...sometimes the same subject line persists when the topic has
completely changed. So, to help out guys like Moe, I hope we won't be
so lazy in the future...
Cheers,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
The Gospel According to St. Fresnel of the Miraculous Lens
Chapter One, Versus One through Five
In the Beginning, God created the heavens, and the Aircraft Carrier, and the
seas upon which to float it; and yet there was complete Darkness upon the face
of the earth. And, as we traveled there came to us, as a voice out of the
darkness, an angel of the Lord, saying, "On centerline, on Glideslope, three
quarters of a mile, call the ball." I reflected upon these words, for I was
still yet engulfed in complete darkness. With deep feeling and doubt
overwhelming my countenance, I glanceth towards my companion at my right hand
and saith, "What seeth thou, trusted friend?", and there was a great silence.
Gazing in a searching manner and seeing naught, I raised my voice saying,
"Clara..."
And God spoke to me, and He said, "You're low..power". As the Lord saith, so
shall it be, and I added power; and lo, the ball riseth up onto the bottom of
the mirror. But it was a tainted red glow, and surely indicateth Satan's own
influence. And God spoke to me again saying, "Power.Power..Power!!!!....fly the
ball." And lo, the ball riseth up and off the top of the lens, and the great
darkness was upon me.
And the voice of the Angel came to me again, saying, "When comfortable, twelve
hundred feet, turn downwind." Whereupon I wandered in the darkness, without
direction, for surely the ships radar was beset by demons, and there was great
confusion cast upon CATCC, and there was a great silence in which there was no
comfort to be found. Even my tacan needle spinneth..and lo, there was chaos;
my
trusted companion weepeth quietly unto himself and from close behind I heard
weeping and gnashing of teeth of our flock. There was a great turmoil within
my
cockpit for a multitude of serpents had crept therein.
And though we wandered, as if by Providence I found myself within that Holy
Corridor, and at twelve hundred feet, among my brethren seeking refuge; and the
voice of the Angel of the Lord came to me again, asking of me my needles, and
I
raised my voice saying, "Up and centered", and the voice answered, "Roger, fly
your needles.." I reflected upon these words, and I raised my voice in prayer,
for though my gyro indicateth it not so, surely my aircraft hath been turned
upside down. Verily, as Beelzebub surely wrestled with me, a voice, that of my
trusted companion, saith to me calmly, "Friend...fly thy needles, and find
comfort in the Lord." And lo, with deep trembling in my heart, I did, and He
guideth me to centered glideslope and centerline, though I know not how it came
to be.
And out of the great darkness, God spoke to me again saying, "Roger ball" for
now I had faith. And though the ball began to rise at the in close position,
my
right hand was full of the Spirit, and it squeeketh off power and as in a great
miracle my plane stoppeth upon the flight deck, for it hath caught the four wire
which God in his infinite wisdom hath placed thirty feet further down the flight
deck than the three wire.
And thus bathed in a golden radiance from above, our pilgrimage was at an end,
and my spirit was truly reborn. And as I basked in the rapture, God spoketh to
me one final time, and He saith, "Lights out on deck.."
Carolann Roussin
Shumaker, Loop & Kendrick, LLP
101 East Kennedy Boulevard
Suite 2800
Tampa, Florida 33602-5151
Telephone: (813) 229-7600 or (813)227-2233
Facsimile: (813) 229-1660
mail to: croussin@slk-law.com
http://www.slk-law.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flight Simulator 2002 |
Hi Guys,
I'm involved with helping some guys produce a Model 520 (with other Models to
follow) for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2002.
Has anyone got this?
If so, we'll need somebody to 'test-drive' the first production example.
A dangerous job, I acknowledge, but someone's got to do it, and they won't get
any pay, let alone danger money!!
Let me know asap, and I'll pass your email address on so that contact may be
established.
Best Regards,
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Hindmarsh" <todd(at)inpnet.org> |
| Subject: | Flight Simulator 2002 |
Barry,
I've got it. Add me to the list please.
Thanks,
Todd Hindmarsh
todd(at)inpnet.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Subject: Commander-List: Flight Simulator 2002
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Guys,
I'm involved with helping some guys produce a Model 520 (with other
Models to
follow) for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2002.
Has anyone got this?
If so, we'll need somebody to 'test-drive' the first production example.
A dangerous job, I acknowledge, but someone's got to do it, and they
won't get
any pay, let alone danger money!!
Let me know asap, and I'll pass your email address on so that contact
may be
established.
Best Regards,
Barry C.
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Simulator 2002 |
Barry,
OK to give the guys my e-mail address to testdrive a
520. After all we have a real one and we have the FS
2002.
Regards,
Frits Abbing
>
> I'm involved with helping some guys produce a Model
> 520 (with other Models to
> follow) for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2002.
>
> Has anyone got this?
>
> If so, we'll need somebody to 'test-drive' the first
> production example.
>
> A dangerous job, I acknowledge, but someone's got to
> do it, and they won't get
> any pay, let alone danger money!!
>
> Let me know asap, and I'll pass your email address
> on so that contact may be
> established.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Barry C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Simulator 2002 |
| From: | tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com |
12/12/2002 03:04:51 PM
Barry, you remember me don't you?? My Dad flew one of the real prototypes -
L1946! I have talked to Milton SHupe - PLEASE ADD ME!!! Home address is
COM840(at)aol.com. THanks!!
"Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>@matronics.com on
12/12/2002 02:00:28 PM
Please respond to commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Commander-List: Flight Simulator 2002
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Guys,
I'm involved with helping some guys produce a Model 520 (with other Models
to
follow) for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2002.
Has anyone got this?
If so, we'll need somebody to 'test-drive' the first production example.
A dangerous job, I acknowledge, but someone's got to do it, and they won't
get
any pay, let alone danger money!!
Let me know asap, and I'll pass your email address on so that contact may
be
established.
Best Regards,
Barry C.
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient,
you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is
STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately
contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in
electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Simulator 2002 |
I am using a 680FLP and a 500S aircraft in MSFS 2002.
I obtained them from a shareware site.
The handling characteristics of the aircraft models are quite realistic.
They have very little cockpit operational items other than radios and the
throttle quadrant.
FYI I also use ASA "On Top" for IFR procedures practice.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Commander-List: Flight Simulator 2002
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm involved with helping some guys produce a Model 520 (with other Models
to
> follow) for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2002.
>
> Has anyone got this?
>
> If so, we'll need somebody to 'test-drive' the first production example.
>
> A dangerous job, I acknowledge, but someone's got to do it, and they won't
get
> any pay, let alone danger money!!
>
> Let me know asap, and I'll pass your email address on so that contact may
be
> established.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Barry C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Simulator 2002 |
Hi Tom,
I think you'll find that the ones being created by these guys are going to be
'The Biz". They are really trying to get everything right, even to Crunk
recording sound bytes of a real Model 520!
I'll let everybody know when the 520 is available, and the other Models they
propose to do.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Simulator 2002
|
| I am using a 680FLP and a 500S aircraft in MSFS 2002.
| I obtained them from a shareware site.
| The handling characteristics of the aircraft models are quite realistic.
| They have very little cockpit operational items other than radios and the
| throttle quadrant.
|
| FYI I also use ASA "On Top" for IFR procedures practice.
|
| Tom...
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
| To:
| Subject: Commander-List: Flight Simulator 2002
|
|
| <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
| >
| > Hi Guys,
| >
| > I'm involved with helping some guys produce a Model 520 (with other Models
| to
| > follow) for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2002.
| >
| > Has anyone got this?
| >
| > If so, we'll need somebody to 'test-drive' the first production example.
| >
| > A dangerous job, I acknowledge, but someone's got to do it, and they won't
| get
| > any pay, let alone danger money!!
| >
| > Let me know asap, and I'll pass your email address on so that contact may
| be
| > established.
| >
| > Best Regards,
| >
| > Barry C.
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Simulator 2002 |
Hi guys!
I've passed on all the email addresses and hopefully, someone will be in touch
before too long.
Please be patient, as they are still adding finishing touches, and enhancing the
'look' of it all.
Thanks again!
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Simulator 2002 |
Can't wait!
I'm sure they will be more accurate than the 500S & 680FLP I am using now.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Simulator 2002
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I think you'll find that the ones being created by these guys are going to
be
> 'The Biz". They are really trying to get everything right, even to Crunk
> recording sound bytes of a real Model 520!
>
> I'll let everybody know when the 520 is available, and the other Models
they
> propose to do.
>
> Very Best Regards,
>
> Barry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Simulator 2002
>
>
>
> |
> | I am using a 680FLP and a 500S aircraft in MSFS 2002.
> | I obtained them from a shareware site.
> | The handling characteristics of the aircraft models are quite realistic.
> | They have very little cockpit operational items other than radios and
the
> | throttle quadrant.
> |
> | FYI I also use ASA "On Top" for IFR procedures practice.
> |
> | Tom...
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> | To:
> | Subject: Commander-List: Flight Simulator 2002
> |
> |
> | <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> | >
> | > Hi Guys,
> | >
> | > I'm involved with helping some guys produce a Model 520 (with other
Models
> | to
> | > follow) for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2002.
> | >
> | > Has anyone got this?
> | >
> | > If so, we'll need somebody to 'test-drive' the first production
example.
> | >
> | > A dangerous job, I acknowledge, but someone's got to do it, and they
won't
> | get
> | > any pay, let alone danger money!!
> | >
> | > Let me know asap, and I'll pass your email address on so that contact
may
> | be
> | > established.
> | >
> | > Best Regards,
> | >
> | > Barry C.
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | FW: Gorilla Love |
Hope you don't kick me off the list for this one but it was too good not to
pass on.
[Jim Addington]
Subject: Gorilla Love
A small, rural West Virginia Wild Animal Park had acquired
a very rare species of gorilla. Within a few weeks,
the female gorilla became very difficult to handle.
Upon examination, the park veterinarian determined the
problem, the gorilla was in heat. To make matters worse,
there were no male gorillas of the species available.
While reflecting on their problem, the park administrators
noticed Ed, a part time, redneck intern, responsible
for cleaning the animals' cages.
Ed, like most rednecks, had little sense, but possessed
ample ability to satisfy a female of ANY species. So,
the park administrators thought they might have a solution.
Ed was approached with a proposition. Would he be willing
to have sex with the gorilla for $500? Ed showed some
interest, but said he would have to think the matter
over carefully. The following day, Ed announced that
he would accept their offer, but only under three conditions.
"First," he said, "I don't want to have to kiss her.
Secondly, you must never tell anyone about this." The
park administration quickly agreed to these conditions,
so they asked what was his third condition.
"Well," said Ed, "You gotta give me another week to come up
with the $500."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.......
Triple 2 is still stuck on the other side of the river. The weather
has been stinko since I fixed her. Ironically, I can see the Troutdale
airport from my hot tub, with a strong pair of binoculars I could probably
see her! But, cant get her home yet. Maybe tomorrow. Hope all is well in
Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: STILL GROUNDED |
Thanks for the latest report. I always enjoy your updates on triple 2.
Maybe one day I'll get to see her in person...how about at Oshkosh this
year..??
Randy Dettmer
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: STILL GROUNDED
>
> HI KIDS.......
>
> Triple 2 is still stuck on the other side of the river. The
weather
> has been stinko since I fixed her. Ironically, I can see the Troutdale
> airport from my hot tub, with a strong pair of binoculars I could probably
> see her! But, cant get her home yet. Maybe tomorrow. Hope all is well
in
> Commanderland. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: STILL GROUNDED |
In a message dated 12/12/02 5:14:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> .how about at Oshkosh this
> year..??
>
How about Oshkosh indeed?? Anybody ready to commit to the trip. Lets start
a plan now. I have lots of contacts there and may be able to secure a great
place to stay at an old farm house B & B we used when I ran Avid Aircraft.
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Buddy Windham <bw_cycon(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: STILL GROUNDED |
Jimbo, I go every year. Let's bring some of you west
coast boys to the land of cheese heads for some
fun..Theres never enough commanders at Osh
--- YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/12/02 5:14:48 PM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
>
> > .how about at Oshkosh this
> > year..??
> >
>
> How about Oshkosh indeed?? Anybody ready to commit
> to the trip. Lets start
> a plan now. I have lots of contacts there and may
> be able to secure a great
> place to stay at an old farm house B & B we used
> when I ran Avid Aircraft.
> jb
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Buddy Windham
Cycon Enterprises, Inc.
General Contractors/Construction Management/Design Build
0-608 Quincy Street S.W.
Grandville, Michigan 49418
616 896-6488 office
616 896-6490 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: STILL GROUNDED |
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> How about Oshkosh indeed?? Anybody ready to commit to the trip.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: STILL GROUNDED |
In a message dated 12/12/02 6:46:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bw_cycon(at)yahoo.com writes:
> Jimbo, I go every year. Let's bring some of you west
> coast boys to the land of cheese heads for some
> fun..Theres never enough commanders at Osh
>
Sounds great to me. I went every year for many years, but always working. I
would love to be a spectator. Where did you stay?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
Y'all can come to OSH and watch us (CJ's and Yaks) own the warbird
formation portion of the show again... :)
If I have an open back seat, I'll pick you up, Chris...
B
On Thursday, December 12, 2002, at 06:57 PM, Chris Schuermann wrote:
>
>
>
> YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
>> How about Oshkosh indeed?? Anybody ready to commit to the trip.
>
> airplanes pass by>
>
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | allan hoffman <alh1(at)juno.com> |
i also go every year, but i park at appleton. lord willing i will be
there this summer again. ten years ago i was usually the only commander
at osh. now there are a few more, but one year another 500 about two
serial numbers from me parked next to me. go figure. al hoffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Another Good Night in Aviation |
speed224(at)aol.com, jpowell717(at)msn.com, SinkBird(at)aol.com,
b.rutledge(at)charter.net, Wingnut195(at)cs.com, stubie(at)mindspring.com,
bray0(at)dellepro.com, C04Glenn.Dahl(at)USAFA.edu, DuckRyder(at)att.net,
Carter1984(at)aol.com, PAULSTRACI(at)aol.com, TAYLORMS1(at)aol.com
Had a trip tonight from KATL to KPNS (pensacola, fl.) Crossing over Dothan,
AL
JAX center asked me to change freqs and try to relay to Dothan approach for a
MAYDAY Navajo. They had lost contact with him after an initial vector
towards Andalusia, AL. 700 overcast and 2 miles in light rain. Don't know
if there was an ILS or not.
"(Me) MAYDAY aircraft Navajo 476AB do you copy Citrus 431 over. (Him) Who, I
hear you, 6AB. (ME) N476AB I am a comercial jet trying to relay for Dothan
app. do you copy. (Him) 6AB is at 1500 ft with #2 out. (Me) Roger that 6AB,
Dothan app. said another 20 left and andalusia will be at 12 Oclock. (Him)
O.K. but I'm still in the clouds, and I lost Dothan app. (Me) Stay calm Son,
fly the plane! I'm going to talk you down with Dothans help, you've got to
go down to about 700 for a visual. Dothan advises there are no obstacles, I
have my F/O on 122.8 bringing up the lights for you right now. Stay with me,
and start down. (Him) Roger 6AB is going to 700 ft. (Me) N476AB say your
status. (Him) I don't know, .......it just quit. (Me) Stay on this freq.
son, Dothan said there is no traffic, and my F/O calling your MAYDAY on
unicom. (Him) I SEE IT, I SEE IT!! THE LIGHTS!!! (Me) 6AB can you make the
field? (Him) IT"S 12 Oclock O.K.!! (Me) 6AB can make the runway. I THINK
SO!!"
Then followed the longest 2 minutes of my life, no more answer, no reply,
nobody else on unicom..........But thank god no ELT signal on guard. Dothan
told me he had a man on the phone at the andalusia airport who said "Somebody
just landed, but they aren't talking to anybody."
I was having lunch on my vacation today when the company called and said they
needed my to fly to KPNS tonight. I told them O.K. I didn't really want to
go, but now I know why I was supposed to. N476AB is safe tonight. I hope
all of you are too.
JetPaul
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another Good Night in Aviation |
In a message dated 12/13/02 01:04:52 Pacific Standard Time, JETPAUL(at)aol.com
writes:
> Stay on this freq.
> son, Dothan said there is no traffic, and my F/O calling your MAYDAY on
> unicom.
Wow, JetPaul!
That was a terrific bit of work. I know you had your hands full with helping
the MayDay Navajo and your F/O was in on the assist ... all the while you
were taking care of your own business at 460+ knots.
Really great stuff.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Windham" <bw_cycon(at)yahoo.com> |
I camp out in the south 40. Past the ultralights in the classic area.
If it's been raining and the ground is soft I park at Basslier. A long
walk to the trains but well worth it. By the way Bob Hoover has a booth
there every year and he loves to talk to commander guys, (provided you
buy some of his stuff) just kidding
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: STILL GROUNDED
In a message dated 12/12/02 6:46:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bw_cycon(at)yahoo.com writes:
> Jimbo, I go every year. Let's bring some of you west
> coast boys to the land of cheese heads for some
> fun..Theres never enough commanders at Osh
>
Sounds great to me. I went every year for many years, but always
working. I
would love to be a spectator. Where did you stay?? jb
=
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another Good Night in Aviation )worth repeating) |
speed224(at)aol.com, jpowell717(at)msn.com, SinkBird(at)aol.com,
b.rutledge(at)charter.net, Wingnut195(at)cs.com, stubie(at)mindspring.com,
bray0(at)dellepro.com, C04Glenn.Dahl(at)USAFA.edu, DuckRyder(at)att.net,
Carter1984(at)aol.com, PAULSTRACI(at)aol.com, TAYLORMS1(at)aol.com
Jet Paul,
What a great story!
I'll forward on to my insured who is Editor of Flying Magazine.
His name is Richard Collins. THe story is worth sharing...
Richard taught my Dad to Fly Fixed wing aircraft at Ft. Rucker, Alabama.
(Camp Rucker for you older Army Pilots)
Anytime your in the vicinity of Rome, GA...give me a call.
We have a Deli on the field, and I'll buy lunch.
Merry Christmas to all...
Gary Tillman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: STILL GROUNDED |
> Sounds great to me. I went every year for many years, but always working.
I
> would love to be a spectator. Where did you stay?? jb
Jim,
I parked my Commander in the "Classic Contemporary" area two years ago, and
camped under the wing. The "CC" area ( for aircraft built before the mid
sixties) is usually located down near the approach end of runway 36 on the
grass. It's a GREAT place to park, camp, and hang-out. The views of the
daily airshows and daily landing traffic make for terrific "airplane
watching". You don't have to camp, but it would sure be neat to have a
whole bunch of "tall tails" parked together in the same area.
Some sort of organized arrival together would be pretty cool too.
I'm planning to make the trip from sunny California, and may have some empty
seats...
Randy Dettmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another Good Night in Aviation |
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
AWESOME! I HAVE GOOSE BUMPS. THANKS, PAUL, FOR BEING IN THE RIGHT
PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME TO HELP SAVE A LIFE (or more?)....
Barry
On Friday, December 13, 2002, at 01:03 AM, JETPAUL(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Had a trip tonight from KATL to KPNS (pensacola, fl.) Crossing over
> Dothan,
> AL
> JAX center asked me to change freqs and try to relay to Dothan approach
> for a
> MAYDAY Navajo. They had lost contact with him after an initial vector
> towards Andalusia, AL. 700 overcast and 2 miles in light rain. Don't
> know
> if there was an ILS or not.
>
> "(Me) MAYDAY aircraft Navajo 476AB do you copy Citrus 431 over. (Him)
> Who, I
> hear you, 6AB. (ME) N476AB I am a comercial jet trying to relay for
> Dothan
> app. do you copy. (Him) 6AB is at 1500 ft with #2 out. (Me) Roger
> that 6AB,
> Dothan app. said another 20 left and andalusia will be at 12 Oclock.
> (Him)
> O.K. but I'm still in the clouds, and I lost Dothan app. (Me) Stay
> calm Son,
> fly the plane! I'm going to talk you down with Dothans help, you've
> got to
> go down to about 700 for a visual. Dothan advises there are no
> obstacles, I
> have my F/O on 122.8 bringing up the lights for you right now. Stay
> with me,
> and start down. (Him) Roger 6AB is going to 700 ft. (Me) N476AB say
> your
> status. (Him) I don't know, .......it just quit. (Me) Stay on this
> freq.
> son, Dothan said there is no traffic, and my F/O calling your MAYDAY on
> unicom. (Him) I SEE IT, I SEE IT!! THE LIGHTS!!! (Me) 6AB can you
> make the
> field? (Him) IT"S 12 Oclock O.K.!! (Me) 6AB can make the runway. I
> THINK
> SO!!"
>
> Then followed the longest 2 minutes of my life, no more answer, no
> reply,
> nobody else on unicom..........But thank god no ELT signal on guard.
> Dothan
> told me he had a man on the phone at the andalusia airport who said
> "Somebody
> just landed, but they aren't talking to anybody."
>
> I was having lunch on my vacation today when the company called and
> said they
> needed my to fly to KPNS tonight. I told them O.K. I didn't really
> want to
> go, but now I know why I was supposed to. N476AB is safe tonight. I
> hope
> all of you are too.
>
> JetPaul
>
> JetPaul
>
>
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Wall" <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com> |
| Subject: | 560 parts plane for sale |
There is a 560, tail number N5462Z Serial #211, for sale in Texas. The entire project
has been kept in a hangar, the owner thought there was too much corrosion
in the wings and decided to take the wing off the plane.(I fail to see the
logic in that move) As of a few years ago he wanted to sell it to somebody to
rebuild, but now he just wants to get rid of it. The plane is sitting in pieces.
The engines and mounts have already been sold along with the seats. Basically
it is just an airframe and landing gear, some instrumets, and all the assorted
parts. I have some pictures, contact me if you are interested. There
are a few pieces that I am interested in(nose wheel bungee, flap pulleys(if they
are good), 1 boost pump, spinners and backing plates and a few other small
pieces) The owner wants $2000 for the lot(and might come down), I will split
it with with sombebody so I can get the parts that I need. I just don't want
the entire airframe or have a way to move it and I want to see the parts go to
good use.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Polito W6DEN" <cloudhopper(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: STILL GROUNDED |
Randy:
I am planning to park in the CC area next year with my 500B. I have the
phone number of the volunteer that is in charge of that area. He said to
call him a couple of weeks before the event and he will hold the primo end
row parking spot. He likes to park the larger planes on the end spot. I am
sure he will accomodate a commander gaggle.
Let's keep in touch on this.
Best
Dennis Polito
N6273X
650-595-3949
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: STILL GROUNDED
>
>
> > Sounds great to me. I went every year for many years, but always
working.
> I
> > would love to be a spectator. Where did you stay?? jb
>
> Jim,
> I parked my Commander in the "Classic Contemporary" area two years ago,
and
> camped under the wing. The "CC" area ( for aircraft built before the mid
> sixties) is usually located down near the approach end of runway 36 on the
> grass. It's a GREAT place to park, camp, and hang-out. The views of the
> daily airshows and daily landing traffic make for terrific "airplane
> watching". You don't have to camp, but it would sure be neat to have a
> whole bunch of "tall tails" parked together in the same area.
>
> Some sort of organized arrival together would be pretty cool too.
>
> I'm planning to make the trip from sunny California, and may have some
empty
> seats...
>
> Randy Dettmer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another Good Night in Aviation |
Good job, Paul
Thanks for sharing...
Regards
Marcio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: STILL GROUNDED |
Hi Dennis,
Yep, that's the best spot on the end of the row near the runway. Hopefully,
we'll get a whole bunch of Commnders flying into OSH this year. I'll keep
in touch.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Polito W6DEN" <cloudhopper(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: STILL GROUNDED
>
> Randy:
> I am planning to park in the CC area next year with my 500B. I have the
> phone number of the volunteer that is in charge of that area. He said to
> call him a couple of weeks before the event and he will hold the primo end
> row parking spot. He likes to park the larger planes on the end spot. I am
> sure he will accomodate a commander gaggle.
>
> Let's keep in touch on this.
>
> Best
>
> Dennis Polito
>
> N6273X
>
> 650-595-3949
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: STILL GROUNDED
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > > Sounds great to me. I went every year for many years, but always
> working.
> > I
> > > would love to be a spectator. Where did you stay?? jb
> >
> > Jim,
> > I parked my Commander in the "Classic Contemporary" area two years ago,
> and
> > camped under the wing. The "CC" area ( for aircraft built before the
mid
> > sixties) is usually located down near the approach end of runway 36 on
the
> > grass. It's a GREAT place to park, camp, and hang-out. The views of
the
> > daily airshows and daily landing traffic make for terrific "airplane
> > watching". You don't have to camp, but it would sure be neat to have a
> > whole bunch of "tall tails" parked together in the same area.
> >
> > Some sort of organized arrival together would be pretty cool too.
> >
> > I'm planning to make the trip from sunny California, and may have some
> empty
> > seats...
> >
> > Randy Dettmer
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barshalom(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: STILL GROUNDED |
Dennis,
Got room for another 500B?
Bill in TN
N69PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Polito W6DEN" <cloudhopper(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | KOSH commander group camping in the CC area. |
Bill et al:
Absolutely, the more the merrier. I usually catch the show on the first day with
arrival one day earlier. I have made it all of the way from the San Francisco
area in one day lots of times but I prefer to spend the night somewhere about
1 hour away, this way we are sure to get a good spot early the next morning.
I will call the person responsible for the parking in the CC area. It is right
next to the 36 numbers. He promised to park the larger aircraft a row. Will
call him a few weeks prior to the event with a plane count. I don't think it matters
when each plane arrives, he just needs the count.
The guys coming from the west coast can rendezvous at a pre arranged spot and arrive
together.
This year something interesting happened to us.
We planned an overnight in Cedar Rapids. Upon checking the weather I discovered
that it would be much better to continue on and outrun a nasty front. Ever try
to secure an IFR slot into KOSH? Forget it! Been there, done that and got the
t-shirt. Not worth the hassle.
We arrive near Fisk and discover that there will be no arrivals due to the fact
that there are 82 Mooneys inbound and they wouldn't allow any other aircraft
to mix in with the Mooneys. Lotsa folks ahead of us are holding and very very
irate.
So there we are circling away from the crowd poised to sneak in. Oh yes, it's now
1930 hrs local and the airdrome closes in 30 minutes.
The poor female controller was catching everyone's crap as if this mess was all
her fault.
Finally at 1950 hrs. she started to accept new traffic, squeezing in as many as
she could before the drome closed for the evening. I gingerly squeezed in behind
a biplane and heard the controller acknowledge both the biplane and the Commander.
She remained calm, courteous and very professional. I can't begin to
tell you what a fabulous job this gal did in the face of all of this chaos. We
were one of the last aircraft to make in in that evening. The storm arrived
as advertised and on schedule. What is Oshkosh without a downpour?
About two weeks later I happened to pick up a copy of the Wall Street Journal and
there on the front page was an account of the controller's actions and even
the radio acknowledgement of the biplane and the Commander.
Maybe next year we can arrive with a high commander count and make the Mooneys
wait!
Pass along your phone number and I will begin to compile a list of those interested.
Dennis Polito
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: KOSH commander group camping in the CC area. |
In a message dated 12/13/02 7:03:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cloudhopper(at)attbi.com writes:
> Bill et al:
>
>
> Absolutely, the more the merrier. I usually catch the show on the first day
> with arrival one day earlier. I have made it all of the way from the San
> Francisco area in one day lots of times but I prefer to spend the night
> somewhere about 1 hour away, this way we are sure to get a good spot early
> the next morning. I will call the person responsible for the parking in the
> CC area. It is right next to the 36 numbers. He promised to park the larger
> aircraft a row. Will call him a few weeks prior to the event with a plane
> count. I don't think it matters when each plane arrives, he just needs the
> count.
>
How many of you would be interested in staying in a big, old farm house B &
B?? Or is everybody planing on camping. Let me know and if there is enough
interest, I can contact the folks and see if we can have rooms, it is rustic,
but clean, close and relatively cheap. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another Good Night in Aviation |
WOW PAUL..Great story and great thinking.......jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: KOSH commander group camping in the CC area. |
| From: | allan hoffman <alh1(at)juno.com> |
dennis, allan hoffman 561 478 7066 put me down for osh. from pbi (palm
beach, florida to osh. i usually overnight in pia because of byerly
aviation and the casino in peoria. i usually have a seat or two if
anyone is interested, but sometimes i come by way of memphis or even
rapid city depending on the weather and my mood.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 560 parts plane for sale |
Chris,
OK, I'm interested to buy it. You will try to get the
price down with the owner. If he accepts, we will
discuss your needed items.
Does he have some paperwork with it?
Where is it located? Just to see if we can have a look
and try to ship it to Fl.
Frits
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: 1952 Aero Commander 520 |
Hey Nico, this is especially for you. Isn't this one the scams that you
warned us about? This guy is targeting aviation, and Twin Commanders if that
is the case. This entire email was unsolicited, and from a cold internet ad.
Tell me what you think? and can we track this guy down with anything he said?
JetPaul
From: <idrisjsph(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 1952 Aero Commander 520
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:20:34 -0500
Great news!
Joseph Idris has responded to your aircraft ad on AeroHunter.com:
"
Dear Sir/Madam
My name is JOSEPH IDRIS my father ALHAJI AHMED ADULLKARIM IDRIS
is among the few others that were detained in the State Security Service
safe house at Life Camp, Abuja by the present Administration of Olusegun
Obasanjo in Nigeria over alleged conspiracy with the late General Sani
Abacha for looting of the national treasury.
No doubt, that my father was a very close associate to the late head of
state General Sani Abacha from the time he was the Minister of Defense up
to the time he died in 1998 and Throughout this period he was engaged with
him in several monetary transactions that was successful and I must
confess that my father made lots of money at that time in millions of
dollars.
But unfortunately for my father now the Obasanjo government have
successfully investigated and discovered most of the deals my father
executed with the late Head of state due and undue transactions, froze all
his local accounts and accounts abroad, his luxurious estates and his
sixteen luxury cars have being seized by the federal government and ever
since things have not being the same for my father and the entire family.
In one of my visit to my father in detention he disclosed to me that
sometime in 1997 he was awarded a contract by the Nigeria Liquefied
Natural Gas (NLNG), so he intelligently incorporated a Japanese based
company, Kashima Oil Co., Ltd. to execute it, So, the funds will not be
traceable to him, he said actual amount for the contract was $113Million
but with the assistance of General Abacha, the approved amount
was$166Million. So the difference of $53Million was what he kept in an
escrow account. So I intended investigating to know if the federal
government did discover the funds in the escrow account and couple with
the assistance from some top officials of the bank the federal government
did not discovered the funds.
So presently, in collaboration with the top officials of the bank they are
willing to assist me to move out the funds from there bank before the
government will discover the funds for this is my fathers only hope and as
his first son I owe him that obligation to protect is wealth which remains
is only hope but though I need to take extra precautions due to the
present situation.
The advise from this officials is that for me to successfully acheive
this I will need to a provide a foreign company that can be made the
beneficiary of the funds before such amount and nature of funds can be
easily processed and approved by the federal government.
if you can assist me, I will not hesitate to furnish you with further
information on how we intend to legalize and process the name you shall
produce as the beneficiary of the funds for proper approval of payment of
the funds by the federal government .
I am willing to give you 25% of the total funds for your assistance 5% for
any incidental expenses incurred at the course of the transaction and 70%
for me. This is my fathers only hope and also the only hope for the
entire family so your assistance will go a long way to in saving a dying
family. I will await your positive response.
Best regards,
JOSEPH IDRIS
N:B You can also send your response to josephidris(at)hotmail.com
"
===================================
1952 Aero Commander 520
http://www.aerohunter.com/addetail.asp?adid=850
AeroHunter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Yup, that's exactly the one. It is called the Nigeria Scam or the 419
Advance Fee Fraud. They have raked in billions of dollars from greedy people
who fall for the prospect of easy money, although totally illegal if it were
not a scam. Don't bother going after them since they are syndicated and
networked throughout the sub-Saharan Africa. Their bosses have the ability
to strip your account bare through their banking contacts, so to even
respond to their solicitations is already a bad idea.
Exercising the delete key is about the only perfect antidote. Wouldn't mind
waking him up early in the morning with a baseball bat in hand, though.
Nico
PS. Type in 'Nigeria fraud' into your Internet search engine if you want to
read more about it. This particular site is from a self-confessed operator
who claims to have taken in nearly a billion dollars.
http://www.popsubculture.com/pop/bio_project/nigeria-fraud.html
----- Original Message -----
From: <JETPAUL(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: 1952 Aero Commander 520
>
> Hey Nico, this is especially for you. Isn't this one the scams that you
> warned us about? This guy is targeting aviation, and Twin Commanders if
that
> is the case. This entire email was unsolicited, and from a cold internet
ad.
>
> Tell me what you think? and can we track this guy down with anything he
said?
>
> JetPaul
>
>
> From: <idrisjsph(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: 1952 Aero Commander 520
> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:20:34 -0500
>
> Great news!
>
> Joseph Idris has responded to your aircraft ad on AeroHunter.com:
>
> "
>
>
> Dear Sir/Madam
>
> My name is JOSEPH IDRIS my father ALHAJI AHMED ADULLKARIM IDRIS
> is among the few others that were detained in the State Security Service
> safe house at Life Camp, Abuja by the present Administration of Olusegun
> Obasanjo in Nigeria over alleged conspiracy with the late General Sani
> Abacha for looting of the national treasury.
>
> No doubt, that my father was a very close associate to the late head of
> state General Sani Abacha from the time he was the Minister of Defense up
> to the time he died in 1998 and Throughout this period he was engaged with
> him in several monetary transactions that was successful and I must
> confess that my father made lots of money at that time in millions of
> dollars.
>
> But unfortunately for my father now the Obasanjo government have
> successfully investigated and discovered most of the deals my father
> executed with the late Head of state due and undue transactions, froze all
> his local accounts and accounts abroad, his luxurious estates and his
> sixteen luxury cars have being seized by the federal government and ever
> since things have not being the same for my father and the entire family.
>
> In one of my visit to my father in detention he disclosed to me that
> sometime in 1997 he was awarded a contract by the Nigeria Liquefied
> Natural Gas (NLNG), so he intelligently incorporated a Japanese based
> company, Kashima Oil Co., Ltd. to execute it, So, the funds will not be
> traceable to him, he said actual amount for the contract was $113Million
> but with the assistance of General Abacha, the approved amount
> was$166Million. So the difference of $53Million was what he kept in an
> escrow account. So I intended investigating to know if the federal
> government did discover the funds in the escrow account and couple with
> the assistance from some top officials of the bank the federal government
> did not discovered the funds.
>
> So presently, in collaboration with the top officials of the bank they are
> willing to assist me to move out the funds from there bank before the
> government will discover the funds for this is my fathers only hope and as
> his first son I owe him that obligation to protect is wealth which remains
> is only hope but though I need to take extra precautions due to the
> present situation.
>
> The advise from this officials is that for me to successfully acheive
> this I will need to a provide a foreign company that can be made the
> beneficiary of the funds before such amount and nature of funds can be
> easily processed and approved by the federal government.
>
> if you can assist me, I will not hesitate to furnish you with further
> information on how we intend to legalize and process the name you shall
> produce as the beneficiary of the funds for proper approval of payment of
> the funds by the federal government .
>
> I am willing to give you 25% of the total funds for your assistance 5% for
> any incidental expenses incurred at the course of the transaction and 70%
> for me. This is my fathers only hope and also the only hope for the
> entire family so your assistance will go a long way to in saving a dying
> family. I will await your positive response.
>
> Best regards,
>
> JOSEPH IDRIS
>
> N:B You can also send your response to josephidris(at)hotmail.com
>
>
> "
>
> ===================================
>
> 1952 Aero Commander 520
> http://www.aerohunter.com/addetail.asp?adid=850
>
>
> AeroHunter.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KOSH commander group camping in the CC area. |
Pass along your phone number and I will begin to compile a list of those
interested.
Hey Dennis,
Count me in...I've been talking up the idea now for a couple of months. I
'll be making the trek from SBP (San Luis Obispo, CA) Probably have some
empty seats too.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
805 541 4864
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n414c" <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Aux hydraulic pump relay |
Part number 833038-1. is a relay between the pressure switch and the aux hydraulic
pump.
Anyone know the manufacturer or a source besides the TCAC dealerships?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Had an unusual (and unnerving) experience the other day...departing from SBP
(San Luis Obispo, CA) on the way to SVE (Susanville, CA), on firing up the
heater, we experienced a fairly strong petroleum smell, and a small amount
of smoke from behind the intrument panel. I was ready to immediately return
to the airport, when the smoke cleared and the smell went away. Heater
worked fine. So, continued the flight while paying VERY close attention to
the heater. Everything was fine for the rest of the flight and return
flight to SBP.
I mentioned this to Morris Kernick, and he immediately suggested "hydraulic
fluid" leaking into the heater ducts. After an inspection under the panel,
I found fresh drops of hydraulic fluid on the heater plenum just above the
co-pilot rudder pedals. Without pulling the instrument panel out, it was
impossible to determine where the leak was coming from. My thoughts are
that the most likely source of a leak would be the landing gear
actuator/switch..??
Anybody had a similar experience, or have suggestions on where the hydraulic
fluid might be coming from. It is a very small leak, but enough to
accumulate in the heater plenum and cause the smell and smoke when the hot
air enters the duct.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: smoking heater |
In a message dated 12/14/02 10:27:43 Pacific Standard Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> Anybody had a similar experience, or have suggestions on where the hydraulic
> fluid might be coming from. It is a very small leak, but enough to
> accumulate in the heater plenum and cause the smell and smoke when the hot
> air enters the duct.
>
Randy,
Also check the capillary line to the hydraulic pressure guage.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: smoking heater |
Thanks Keith,
I thought about that too. Will try to wiggle under the panel and check it
out. Although, I thought that the most likely source would be from
something that "moves" with seals etc...like the landing gear actuator.
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: smoking heater
>
> In a message dated 12/14/02 10:27:43 Pacific Standard Time,
> rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
>
>
> > Anybody had a similar experience, or have suggestions on where the
hydraulic
> > fluid might be coming from. It is a very small leak, but enough to
> > accumulate in the heater plenum and cause the smell and smoke when the
hot
> > air enters the duct.
> >
>
> Randy,
>
> Also check the capillary line to the hydraulic pressure guage.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry R. Sprayberry" <capnspray(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: smoking heater |
Randy: when you get that problem solved, I have smoke coming out of the
exhaust like black Soot, Hard to keep clean, Cloudcraft do you have any
suggestions? or anyone Please.
Jerry S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: smoking heater
>
> In a message dated 12/14/02 10:27:43 Pacific Standard Time,
> rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
>
>
> > Anybody had a similar experience, or have suggestions on where the
hydraulic
> > fluid might be coming from. It is a very small leak, but enough to
> > accumulate in the heater plenum and cause the smell and smoke when the
hot
> > air enters the duct.
> >
>
> Randy,
>
> Also check the capillary line to the hydraulic pressure guage.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux hydraulic pump relay |
n414c wrote:
>
> Part number 833038-1. is a relay between the pressure switch and the aux hydraulic
pump.
> Anyone know the manufacturer or a source besides the TCAC dealerships?
Milt,
Is tha the Commander part number? Doesn't look familiar to me. I've
tried to find that number as a relay part number but no joy. Are there
any markings or a logo on the relay or other numbers?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harry Merritt" <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux hydraulic pump relay |
Were the relay Located, i May have one
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: n414c
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:03 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Aux hydraulic pump relay
Part number 833038-1. is a relay between the pressure switch and the aux hydraulic
pump.
Anyone know the manufacturer or a source besides the TCAC dealerships?
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: smoking heater |
Don't count out the hose going to the pressure switch! The one on my 680f(p)
broke at night some time ago, and the skydrol pretty much trashed the cockpit
interior foreword of the yolk tube tunnel.
Moe Mills
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nico van Niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: smoking heater |
I cannot remember whether I wrote to the list about the high pressure line
to the hydraulic guage that developed a crack one day in my 500 and it
sprayed the cockpit with a fine, sweet smelling cloud of vaporized
(atomized) hydraylic fluid. It also trashed the yoke-forward part of the
cabin. I am too challenged to work on these things myself so that put some
new life into the FBO at the time.
I believe if I had smoked it would have given some rural farmer a
meteor-like show in broad daylight.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <MOEMILLS(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: smoking heater
>
> Don't count out the hose going to the pressure switch! The one on my
680f(p)
> broke at night some time ago, and the skydrol pretty much trashed the
cockpit
> interior foreword of the yolk tube tunnel.
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 7.0 lbs, 19 1/4 inches |
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
No, it's not a scale airplane, IT'S A BOY!!!!! Baby Boy Hancock (still
labor. Calling on my years as a catcher, I was able to receive without
dropping and Deborah and baby are GREAT! We had the baby at home...what
a blessing.
I'm humbled beyond measure and only hope I can prepare him to follow
Heavenly Father's plan for him.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 7.0 lbs, 19 1/4 inches |
WOW!! CONGRATULATIONS BARRY AND DEBBIE!! WAY TO GO!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Name Barry's Baby |
Jeeez, Barry. I can't figure out if you're a Red Neck:
Debbie Sue: "Barry Bob, the baby's commin'
Barry Bob: Shoot, Debbie Sue, the football game just started. We'll go to
the hospital after the game and my bass fishin' show."
Or, if you're a Commie Pinko --
"Comrade Husband, our baby is coming."
"Comrade Wife, it is the Peoples' baby and it will not be born in an
Imperialist stooge hospital. We'll have it here on the Collective."
OK. Names I'm sure you're already considering are
Mao Tze Hancock
Marx Stalin Hancock
C.J. Hancock ...
... But if you had any sense of style you'd name him
Six Eighty E. Hancock.
I was thinking you should name him Commander Hancock, but then he'd end up
like Major Major in Catch-22.
Congratulations Barry and Debbie!
Love,
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tylor Hall" <winddancer(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. Pagosa Springs, CO. |
Commander Gang,
I have been off the net for a couple of weeks opening a new FBO at 2V1,
Pagosa Springs, CO. Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. 970-731-2127.
We closed on the hangar last Thursday.
I want to thank Chris and Dan for giving me the dream again. I was tired of
others and had to start something new.
Come one come all, fuel discounts to TCFG members.
EENT is the stock ticker of the parent public company.
www.eent.net <http://www.eent.net/> is the web page.
This is the box into which I am going to put a lot of stuff. We have a
letter of intent to purchase 35 STCs of the Rajay turbos from Kelly
Aerospace. This includes the ones for 560s and the 500, 500A, 500B,U, & S.
It also makes us a master distributor for Kelly Aerospace parts.
www.kellyaerospace.com <http://www.kellyaerospace.com/>
Open House next Friday, Dec. 20, 2002. 1PM-4PM. Lots of food.
Full Power and go like the wind.
N685LM just landed here last night. There is a 690B based here.
Note: There is going to be special discounts for TCFG member on fuel,
parts, and hangar rental.
There is no sales tax on aviation parts in Colorado.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
970-731-2127
winddancer(at)centurytel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. Pagosa Springs, |
CO.
Congrats Tyler on the new project. I could tell from talking with you at
the Commander Flyin that you had some interesting projects up your sleeve.
Have fun!!
Randy Dettmer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tylor Hall" <winddancer(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. Pagosa Springs,
CO.
>
>
> Commander Gang,
> I have been off the net for a couple of weeks opening a new FBO at 2V1,
> Pagosa Springs, CO. Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. 970-731-2127.
> We closed on the hangar last Thursday.
>
> I want to thank Chris and Dan for giving me the dream again. I was tired
of
> others and had to start something new.
>
> Come one come all, fuel discounts to TCFG members.
> EENT is the stock ticker of the parent public company.
> www.eent.net <http://www.eent.net/> is the web page.
>
> This is the box into which I am going to put a lot of stuff. We have a
> letter of intent to purchase 35 STCs of the Rajay turbos from Kelly
> Aerospace. This includes the ones for 560s and the 500, 500A, 500B,U, &
S.
> It also makes us a master distributor for Kelly Aerospace parts.
> www.kellyaerospace.com <http://www.kellyaerospace.com/>
>
> Open House next Friday, Dec. 20, 2002. 1PM-4PM. Lots of food.
>
> Full Power and go like the wind.
>
> N685LM just landed here last night. There is a 690B based here.
> Note: There is going to be special discounts for TCFG member on fuel,
> parts, and hangar rental.
> There is no sales tax on aviation parts in Colorado.
>
> Regards,
> Tylor Hall
> 970-731-2127
> winddancer(at)centurytel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. Pagosa Springs, |
CO.
Tylor Hall wrote:
> This is the box into which I am going to put a lot of stuff. We have a
> letter of intent to purchase 35 STCs of the Rajay turbos from Kelly
> Aerospace. This includes the ones for 560s and the 500, 500A, 500B,U, & S.
Tylor,
I was wondering if you could share a bit more info on what all is going
on. (if not, I understand). I noticed on the eent web site that the
Orenda engine conversion is infered to be being done by EENT as well as
several other MRRPM mods. Can you provide us with the current
situation? I still want a 300mph piston twin! :-)
Great news on the Rayjay stuff. I really like those hairdryers and hope
to see them well supported again.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tylor Hall" <winddancer(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. Pagosa Springs, |
CO.
Randy,
This is what I have been working on and could not talk about until it was
public because we are part of a public company.
I want to get the STC's going and add the parts sales.
I need to order in a stock of parts from Kelly. The bad news was that the
previous owner took all of the parts and the shelves. The good new is the
previous owner took all the parts. We will stock up on new parts.
What parts can I stock for Twin Commanders?
Starters, MagnaFlite light weight starters, Mags, generators, alternators,
Janitrol Heaters, Carburetors, servos, Turbochargers, waste gates,
controllers. New and factory overhauled.
Send me part numbers.
Tylor Hall
Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc.
970-731-2127
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tylor Hall" <winddancer(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. Pagosa Springs, |
CO.
Chris,
As you know, I have been working with Dick MacCoon for several years trying
to find a way to preserve the work he has done and raise money to continue
it. Wind Dancer is the first step as a place to do the doing. I went to
Kelly to ask about the STC for the 500 Twin Commanders and they said no.
They wanted to sell all of them to us. I thought that was a better deal.
We have not worked out the final details with Dick, but it will happen soon.
One step at a time.
Dick is in a legal thing with Orenda. I cannot say anything more as you can
understand. It may be settled soon.
When that is done, we will then find out what the temperature of Orenda is
and see if it can be saved.
We have a nice big Box here, 120' X 120'. We have A&P's and Jim Nell, a
DER that will have his office here as well. I am a big fan of "More Power
is Better" Club.
The web page has not been changed, but that will be done. Right now I am
painting, cleaning and getting ready for the open house.
Tylor Hall
Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc.
970-731-2127
Tylor,
I was wondering if you could share a bit more info on what all is going
on. (if not, I understand). I noticed on the eent web site that the
Orenda engine conversion is infered to be being done by EENT as well as
several other MRRPM mods. Can you provide us with the current
situation? I still want a 300mph piston twin! :-)
Great news on the Rayjay stuff. I really like those hairdryers and hope
to see them well supported again.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Name Barry's Baby |
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
OK. Names I'm sure you're already considering are
Mao Tze Hancock
Marx Stalin Hancock
C.J. Hancock ...
Funny, Cade Jameson Hancock is on the list...I didn't pick it, Deb did!
Amazing, 24 hours ago he was T minus 30 min..
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 7.0 lbs, 19 1/4 inches |
Hi Barry & Deborah,
Congratulations on the arrival of your son.We hope mother and baby are well.
All the best for the Christmas and New Year period.
Regards,
Richard & Jacqui
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. Pagosa Springs, |
CO.
In a message dated 12/15/02 10:54:14 Pacific Standard Time,
winddancer(at)centurytel.net writes:
> I have been off the net for a couple of weeks opening a new FBO at 2V1,
> Pagosa Springs, CO. Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. 970-731-2127.
> We closed on the hangar last Thursday.
Tylor,
Congratulations!!!!!
I'm very excited for you and what this brings to the Commander world at
large.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Buddy Windham <bw_cycon(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc. Pagosa Springs, |
CO.
Turbo Chargers for a 560e........Where do I send my
money. Been looking for this for a long, long, time.
Please advise.
--- Tylor Hall wrote:
>
>
>
> Commander Gang,
> I have been off the net for a couple of weeks
> opening a new FBO at 2V1,
> Pagosa Springs, CO. Wind Dancer Aviation Services,
> Inc. 970-731-2127.
> We closed on the hangar last Thursday.
>
> I want to thank Chris and Dan for giving me the
> dream again. I was tired of
> others and had to start something new.
>
> Come one come all, fuel discounts to TCFG members.
> EENT is the stock ticker of the parent public
> company.
> www.eent.net <http://www.eent.net/> is the web
> page.
>
> This is the box into which I am going to put a lot
> of stuff. We have a
> letter of intent to purchase 35 STCs of the Rajay
> turbos from Kelly
> Aerospace. This includes the ones for 560s and the
November 29, 2002 - December 15, 2002
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-at