Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bf
February 24, 2004 - May 10, 2004
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Commander 680 fuel caps |
>
> I deleted the Email from the person looking for the 680 fuel cap.
> I have sourced two new ones so get back to me.
> By the way the Air Centre also called my source so call me before buying.
>
> Tom F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
> To: "commander-list"
> Subject: Commander-List: goodyear pucks
>
>
>
> >
> > There are some new Goodyear pucks on ebay. Current bid 9.99.
> > Can find it under "aero commander" search.
> >
> >
> > Phil Stubbs
> > br549phil(at)mindspring.com
> > Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
An AA Airbus 300 over long Island departed JFK one minute fifty seconds
behind a 747, encountered wake vortex from the heavy, did several complete
ruder reversals and the composite tail broke off.. Airbus neglected to
inform operators of cracks found previousley on two A300's. Our training
and Boeings legal department responded by asking us to limit rudder use.
They have since backed off somewhat of this ludicrus request. Bottom line,
tail sections are not stressed for reversals.
> [Original Message]
> From: css nico <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> To:
> Date: 2/24/2004 11:43:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: VH-EXU
>
>
> Didn't an airliner suffer a tail malfunction due to extreme control use
> recently? At least that was what the board of inquiry suggested. Cannot
> remember the details.
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: VH-EXU
>
>
> <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> >
> > Hi Russell,
> >
> > Gil White has a possible lead for VH-EXU. The other two - nothing new.
> >
> > Evidently, E S Gooch has a listing in the White Pages as 3 Healy Street,
> Port Denison, Western Australia. Port Denison is in the general area of
> Three Springs which Edgar Sidney Gooch gave to the Department of Civil
> Aviation for registration purposes over 30 years ago.
> >
> > The phone number is 08 9927-1799.
> >
> > Would it be worth giving him a call?
> >
> > Re VH-LST, the possibility of structural failure is real bad news. But,
> tails don't just come off on Commanders. If it did, the likely scenario is
> through the pilot inducing an over-stress through extreme use of the
> controls.
> >
> > Very Best Regards,
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
Bottom line,
> tail sections are not stressed for reversals.
Not stressed on those "Hugo" jets.
The world flys on BOEING.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: VH-EXU
>
> An AA Airbus 300 over long Island departed JFK one minute fifty seconds
> behind a 747, encountered wake vortex from the heavy, did several
complete
> ruder reversals and the composite tail broke off.. Airbus neglected to
> inform operators of cracks found previousley on two A300's. Our training
> and Boeings legal department responded by asking us to limit rudder use.
> They have since backed off somewhat of this ludicrus request. >
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: css nico <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > To:
> > Date: 2/24/2004 11:43:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: VH-EXU
> >
>
> >
> > Didn't an airliner suffer a tail malfunction due to extreme control use
> > recently? At least that was what the board of inquiry suggested. Cannot
> > remember the details.
> > Nico
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> > To:
> > Subject: Commander-List: VH-EXU
> >
> >
> > <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> > >
> > > Hi Russell,
> > >
> > > Gil White has a possible lead for VH-EXU. The other two - nothing new.
> > >
> > > Evidently, E S Gooch has a listing in the White Pages as 3 Healy
Street,
> > Port Denison, Western Australia. Port Denison is in the general area of
> > Three Springs which Edgar Sidney Gooch gave to the Department of Civil
> > Aviation for registration purposes over 30 years ago.
> > >
> > > The phone number is 08 9927-1799.
> > >
> > > Would it be worth giving him a call?
> > >
> > > Re VH-LST, the possibility of structural failure is real bad news.
But,
> > tails don't just come off on Commanders. If it did, the likely scenario
is
> > through the pilot inducing an over-stress through extreme use of the
> > controls.
> > >
> > > Very Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Barry
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
hi barry, i did not have the dimension that you needed, but i went to the airport
and measured it. i cannot guarantee that the aircraft was level as far as
the strut height was concerned, but the floor is level and i measured both tips
to make sure they were the same. the measurement from the floor to the elevator
tip is 98 inches. it was the same on both sides. i cannot imagine who would
want this information.
the gross weight is 6000 pounds. the empty weight varies with the installed equipment,
but is normally about 4300 pounds. that leaves 1700 pounds for gas, passengers
and baggage.
there is no landing weight, the aircraft is limited to 6000 pounds gross for takeoff
and landing. i don't have the email in front of me so i hope this answers
the questions. the total fuel is 156 on all of them at 6 pounds per gallon
or 936 pounds, leaving 764 for passengers and baggage. there may be a modification
to add fuel, but if you have four big people at 170 pounds, you either
add two kids, forget the other three adults or leave some fuel behind.
all twin engine piston aircraft are certified by having a test pilot shut down
one engine, have the airplane loaded to what the engineers think is gross weight
and then see if the airplane will climb on one engine at 50 feet per minute
at altitude. if it climbs more than that, they continue to increase the weight
until it just barely meets the standard. that becomes the gross weight. as
long as both engines are running, you have no problems, just don't let the good
engine quit and have to fly home on the bad engine.
if i have not expressed my appreciation for all your work i want to say thank you
now. have a good day and let me know if you need more information. i decided
to send this to the entire list as my comments usually generate controversy,
which adds at times to the knowledge base. (other times it makes me mad as
he**, but that is another story) I also wonder if bill bow is flying again.
what say bill?
al hoffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Al, I am curious as to what the questions were to prompt you to measure what
you did.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <alh1(at)juno.com>
Subject: Commander-List: 500
>
>
> hi barry, i did not have the dimension that you needed, but i went to the
airport and measured it. i cannot guarantee that the aircraft was level as
far as the strut height was concerned, but the floor is level and i measured
both tips to make sure they were the same. the measurement from the floor
to the elevator tip is 98 inches. it was the same on both sides. i cannot
imagine who would want this information.
>
> the gross weight is 6000 pounds. the empty weight varies with the
installed equipment, but is normally about 4300 pounds. that leaves 1700
pounds for gas, passengers and baggage.
>
> there is no landing weight, the aircraft is limited to 6000 pounds gross
for takeoff and landing. i don't have the email in front of me so i hope
this answers the questions. the total fuel is 156 on all of them at 6
pounds per gallon or 936 pounds, leaving 764 for passengers and baggage.
there may be a modification to add fuel, but if you have four big people at
170 pounds, you either add two kids, forget the other three adults or leave
some fuel behind.
>
> all twin engine piston aircraft are certified by having a test pilot shut
down one engine, have the airplane loaded to what the engineers think is
gross weight and then see if the airplane will climb on one engine at 50
feet per minute at altitude. if it climbs more than that, they continue to
increase the weight until it just barely meets the standard. that becomes
the gross weight. as long as both engines are running, you have no
problems, just don't let the good engine quit and have to fly home on the
bad engine.
>
> if i have not expressed my appreciation for all your work i want to say
thank you now. have a good day and let me know if you need more
information. i decided to send this to the entire list as my comments
usually generate controversy, which adds at times to the knowledge base.
(other times it makes me mad as he**, but that is another story) I also
wonder if bill bow is flying again. what say bill?
>
> al hoffman
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Yes, now I remember, thank you.
When Michael Jackson's plane (I believe it was a Falcon) landed here in
Southern California for his arraignment in Santa Barbara, a news chopper
showed the Falcon land and what astonished me was the apparent
(considerable) movement of the 'T'-tail visible on the footage. Because of
the plane's track record it appears to be safe but the sight of that control
surface wabbling like that was not comforting. It must be under a lot of
stress if the rudder is kicked back and forth, especially on a larger
airframe.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: VH-EXU
>
> An AA Airbus 300 over long Island departed JFK one minute fifty seconds
> behind a 747, encountered wake vortex from the heavy, did several
complete
> ruder reversals and the composite tail broke off.. Airbus neglected to
> inform operators of cracks found previousley on two A300's. Our training
> and Boeings legal department responded by asking us to limit rudder use.
> They have since backed off somewhat of this ludicrus request. Bottom
line,
> tail sections are not stressed for reversals.
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: css nico <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > To:
> > Date: 2/24/2004 11:43:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: VH-EXU
> >
>
> >
> > Didn't an airliner suffer a tail malfunction due to extreme control use
> > recently? At least that was what the board of inquiry suggested. Cannot
> > remember the details.
> > Nico
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> > To:
> > Subject: Commander-List: VH-EXU
> >
> >
> > <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> > >
> > > Hi Russell,
> > >
> > > Gil White has a possible lead for VH-EXU. The other two - nothing new.
> > >
> > > Evidently, E S Gooch has a listing in the White Pages as 3 Healy
Street,
> > Port Denison, Western Australia. Port Denison is in the general area of
> > Three Springs which Edgar Sidney Gooch gave to the Department of Civil
> > Aviation for registration purposes over 30 years ago.
> > >
> > > The phone number is 08 9927-1799.
> > >
> > > Would it be worth giving him a call?
> > >
> > > Re VH-LST, the possibility of structural failure is real bad news.
But,
> > tails don't just come off on Commanders. If it did, the likely scenario
is
> > through the pilot inducing an over-stress through extreme use of the
> > controls.
> > >
> > > Very Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Barry
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 02/25/04 08:43:21 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
a news chopper
showed the Falcon land and what astonished me was the apparent
(considerable) movement of the 'T'-tail visible on the footage.
That was a Gulfstream. Falcon tails do not wobble.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert C. Bullock" <rcbullock(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Commander-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 02/24/04 |
Actually it seems I read somewhere that the Va speeds were not computed for
the tail sections on certified aircraft (all or CAR 23 only, or what I do
not recall), which is important when you are deflecting the controls fully,
obviously. I also seem to remember that the popular current theory is due to
that and the Airbus crash, you should not use rudder to correct for yaw
excursions (and I think just in cruise, obv. You need it for Xwind landings
and such). The logic being that a big gust/turbulence followed rapid full
rudder input to counteract is bad juju at cruise speed.
Did I imagine this recommendation? Did a quick google search but didn't find
it. But I did find that Va is computed, not verified I guess for obvious
reasons.
----
Good review:
From an aerodynamic standpoint, Bob explained that Va is a speed that is
poorly understood by many pilots. Most of have been taught to use Va as a
turbulence penetration speed. But Va is not a manufacturer-recommended
turbulence penetration speed, and in fact there is no requirement that a
turbulence penetration speed be published for Part 23 aircraft. (The
situation is different for Part 25 aircraft like bizjets.) Unless you plan
to do snap rolls or other abrupt-control-deflection maneuvers, Va is a
figure that has little relevance to everyday flying.
Va is a purely theoretical figure that represents the maximum speed at which
abrupt control deflection will not stress the aircraft beyond its designed
load limit. But Va is not a speed determined from flight test, is not
verified during FAA certification, and is never required to be demonstrated
by the manufacturer. Bob pointed out that if you attempted to verify Va by
intentionally stalling the aircraft at Va at the design load limit of the
airframe, you'd have to enter the maneuver at an airspeed significantly
higher than Va, then perform an abrupt pull-up or accelerated stall that
would produce load-limit G-forces and reduce the airspeed to Va precisely at
the point where the airplane stalled.
Va as published in the POH is a computed figure based on maximum aircraft
weight. At lower weights, Vs is lower and therefore Va is also lower. The
aerodynamic effect of VGs on manuvering speed is substantially identical to
the effect of flying at less than maximum weight.
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: VH-EXU
Bottom line,
> tail sections are not stressed for reversals.
Not stressed on those "Hugo" jets.
The world flys on BOEING.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Tom, et al,
Al was answering a question from me as to what the height is on a Model 500 from
the ground to the tip of the horizontal tail (we call then "tailplanes" over
here).
This is because I'm compiling 'Fact Files' on each Model built (and later, not
built) in preparation for "The Book".
As Al said, why anybody would want that figure beats me, but it is quoted in the
Maintenance Manual for the Model 720 Alti-Cruiser. If a figure is quoted
somewhere like that, I try and get it for all Models, quoted in the M/M or not.
The Fact File tables cover:
Dimensions
Performance
Weights & Balance
Control Surface Movements
Engines
Propellers
Engine/Prop Combinations
Production (by Year)
Current Fleet Status
ADs.
All good fun and stops me spending money n the Pub each night!
Very Best Regards,
Barry C (UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500
|
| Al, I am curious as to what the questions were to prompt you to measure what
| you did.
| Tom F.
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: <alh1(at)juno.com>
| To: <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
| Subject: Commander-List: 500
|
|
| >
| >
| > hi barry, i did not have the dimension that you needed, but i went to the
| airport and measured it. i cannot guarantee that the aircraft was level as
| far as the strut height was concerned, but the floor is level and i measured
| both tips to make sure they were the same. the measurement from the floor
| to the elevator tip is 98 inches. it was the same on both sides. i cannot
| imagine who would want this information.
| >
| > the gross weight is 6000 pounds. the empty weight varies with the
| installed equipment, but is normally about 4300 pounds. that leaves 1700
| pounds for gas, passengers and baggage.
| >
| > there is no landing weight, the aircraft is limited to 6000 pounds gross
| for takeoff and landing. i don't have the email in front of me so i hope
| this answers the questions. the total fuel is 156 on all of them at 6
| pounds per gallon or 936 pounds, leaving 764 for passengers and baggage.
| there may be a modification to add fuel, but if you have four big people at
| 170 pounds, you either add two kids, forget the other three adults or leave
| some fuel behind.
| >
| > all twin engine piston aircraft are certified by having a test pilot shut
| down one engine, have the airplane loaded to what the engineers think is
| gross weight and then see if the airplane will climb on one engine at 50
| feet per minute at altitude. if it climbs more than that, they continue to
| increase the weight until it just barely meets the standard. that becomes
| the gross weight. as long as both engines are running, you have no
| problems, just don't let the good engine quit and have to fly home on the
| bad engine.
| >
| > if i have not expressed my appreciation for all your work i want to say
| thank you now. have a good day and let me know if you need more
| information. i decided to send this to the entire list as my comments
| usually generate controversy, which adds at times to the knowledge base.
| (other times it makes me mad as he**, but that is another story) I also
| wonder if bill bow is flying again. what say bill?
| >
| > al hoffman
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ProgSearch(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MEI will travel to your location for initial and recurrent. |
Hello listers,
I have completed my instructors tickets and am available for initial and
recurrent training in your commander. I have flown the 500 A, B, U, & S the 560F,
the 680FP, the 680FL, and the 685. Several with Mr RPM and Merlyn
conversions.
I am willing to travel to your location provided you pick up the expenses.
I am completing a training syllabus that you can provide your insurance
company with to get the approval.
Call me for a quote.
You may reach me at my office: 859-689-9046 Home; 859-689-1765,
Cell 859-992-6920
or emails; progsearch(at)aol.com or kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net (preferred
email address)
Kevin Coons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Thanks Barry, put me on the list.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Tom, et al,
>
> Al was answering a question from me as to what the height is on a Model
500 from
> the ground to the tip of the horizontal tail (we call then "tailplanes"
over
> here).
>
> This is because I'm compiling 'Fact Files' on each Model built (and later,
not
> built) in preparation for "The Book".
>
> As Al said, why anybody would want that figure beats me, but it is quoted
in the
> Maintenance Manual for the Model 720 Alti-Cruiser. If a figure is quoted
> somewhere like that, I try and get it for all Models, quoted in the M/M or
not.
>
> The Fact File tables cover:
> Dimensions
> Performance
> Weights & Balance
> Control Surface Movements
> Engines
> Propellers
> Engine/Prop Combinations
> Production (by Year)
> Current Fleet Status
> ADs.
>
> All good fun and stops me spending money n the Pub each night!
>
> Very Best Regards,
>
> Barry C (UK)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500
>
>
>
> |
> | Al, I am curious as to what the questions were to prompt you to measure
what
> | you did.
> | Tom F.
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: <alh1(at)juno.com>
> | To: <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> | Subject: Commander-List: 500
> |
> |
> | >
> | >
> | > hi barry, i did not have the dimension that you needed, but i went to
the
> | airport and measured it. i cannot guarantee that the aircraft was level
as
> | far as the strut height was concerned, but the floor is level and i
measured
> | both tips to make sure they were the same. the measurement from the
floor
> | to the elevator tip is 98 inches. it was the same on both sides. i
cannot
> | imagine who would want this information.
> | >
> | > the gross weight is 6000 pounds. the empty weight varies with the
> | installed equipment, but is normally about 4300 pounds. that leaves
1700
> | pounds for gas, passengers and baggage.
> | >
> | > there is no landing weight, the aircraft is limited to 6000 pounds
gross
> | for takeoff and landing. i don't have the email in front of me so i
hope
> | this answers the questions. the total fuel is 156 on all of them at 6
> | pounds per gallon or 936 pounds, leaving 764 for passengers and baggage.
> | there may be a modification to add fuel, but if you have four big people
at
> | 170 pounds, you either add two kids, forget the other three adults or
leave
> | some fuel behind.
> | >
> | > all twin engine piston aircraft are certified by having a test pilot
shut
> | down one engine, have the airplane loaded to what the engineers think is
> | gross weight and then see if the airplane will climb on one engine at 50
> | feet per minute at altitude. if it climbs more than that, they continue
to
> | increase the weight until it just barely meets the standard. that
becomes
> | the gross weight. as long as both engines are running, you have no
> | problems, just don't let the good engine quit and have to fly home on
the
> | bad engine.
> | >
> | > if i have not expressed my appreciation for all your work i want to
say
> | thank you now. have a good day and let me know if you need more
> | information. i decided to send this to the entire list as my comments
> | usually generate controversy, which adds at times to the knowledge base.
> | (other times it makes me mad as he**, but that is another story) I also
> | wonder if bill bow is flying again. what say bill?
> | >
> | > al hoffman
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Nico,
American Airlines A300-600, KJFK, rapid reversal of the rudder in a wake
turbulence encounter. The jury is out as to whether the control inputs were
pilot inputs, or yaw damper inputs, or a combination of both.
The details go to thousands of pages.
Unrelated to the above, every military pilot knows, but few civil pilots
understand, the effect of "rolling G" on structural limits of an airframe,
in short the G limits in a turn are not the G limits straight and level,
which are the G limits in the AFM.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 03:14 25/02/2004, you wrote:
>
>Didn't an airliner suffer a tail malfunction due to extreme control use
>recently? At least that was what the board of inquiry suggested. Cannot
>remember the details.
>Nico
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>To:
>Subject: Commander-List: VH-EXU
>
>
><barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> >
> > Hi Russell,
> >
> > Gil White has a possible lead for VH-EXU. The other two - nothing new.
> >
> > Evidently, E S Gooch has a listing in the White Pages as 3 Healy Street,
>Port Denison, Western Australia. Port Denison is in the general area of
>Three Springs which Edgar Sidney Gooch gave to the Department of Civil
>Aviation for registration purposes over 30 years ago.
> >
> > The phone number is 08 9927-1799.
> >
> > Would it be worth giving him a call?
> >
> > Re VH-LST, the possibility of structural failure is real bad news. But,
>tails don't just come off on Commanders. If it did, the likely scenario is
>through the pilot inducing an over-stress through extreme use of the
>controls.
> >
> > Very Best Regards,
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
>
>
COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note.
The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton,
Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is:
will remain valid for about three months.
All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about
three months, the date will be notified.
________________________________________________________________________________
hi tom, barry wanted to know the distance from the floor to the tip of the elevators.
he also wanted to know the empty weight, the landing weight limit, if
any and i think that is it. al hoffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Sorry, Chief. You are right. My mistake.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: VH-EXU
>
> In a message dated 02/25/04 08:43:21 Pacific Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> a news chopper
> showed the Falcon land and what astonished me was the apparent
> (considerable) movement of the 'T'-tail visible on the footage.
> That was a Gulfstream. Falcon tails do not wobble.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George J. Yundt III" <yundt(at)speakeasy.net> |
| Subject: | Falcon Jets do not have Tails that "shake" |
SECRET_RECORD
Just to correct the record:
The aircraft Michael Jackson used to return for arraignment was not "His",
but rather was a chartered Gulfstream G-II or G-III, and WAS NOT A FALCON!
(You may remember the Hub-Bub about the Charter operator two days later. He
secretly recorded MJ and his discussions in the cabin during the flight with
a hidden camera and the Judge issued an injunction to forbid making those
tapes available either publicly or to be used by either side's legal team.
ALL FALCON'S HAVE MID-TAILS, NONE HAVE "T" TAILS. This design was selected
to produce superb elevator control even at very high angle of attack and
very slow airspeeds, and is a direct design descendant of the famous Mirage
Fighter that vanquished the Arab's MIG fighters in the 60's & 70's. This
configuration eliminates the "deep tail stall" effect that haunts "T-Tail"
jets. As a result, the Falcons are the ONLY swept wing civil aircraft
certified without the required installation of any stick shaker, stick
pusher or artificial means to preclude the pilot from actually approaching a
fully developed stall. Additionally, the current production Falcons are the
only jets without stall strips, vortex generators, vortelons, fences or any
aerodynamic "patches" to correct or modify airflow. The Falcons are the
only aircraft that can be hand flown with full 3-axis authority into and
through a fully developed aerodynamic stall, as well as through transonic
flight of Mach .95 - .97 (we do this on demo flights with guest pilots in
the left seat and allow banks during this maneuver to 60 degrees!) at the
other end of the envelope, where the flow over the wing equals Mach 1.0 and
you can see the shock wave on the wing and sometimes the condensate "cloud"
just aft of the shock wave. A further indication of a Falcon's strength
(versus that of ANY other bizjet): 1) there is NO published Turbulence
Penetration Speed (Meaning that the Vmo/Mmo is the only limit for even
penetrating a thunderstorm, though not recommended) and 2) it is the ONLY
FAR Part 25 airframe certified by the FAA with an UNLIMITED Service Life (No
hour nor cycle limits)
You don't have to agree with the French Government's politics (neither do
I), but no one builds a better crafted, stronger, more efficient, better
handling business jet aircraft than Dassault.
Just ask Wing Commander Gordon...he flies one for a living!
GJY III
708.349.2121
yundt(at)speakeasy.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net> |
On 2/25/04 10:45, "CloudCraft(at)aol.com" wrote:
> a news chopper
> showed the Falcon land and what astonished me was the apparent
> (considerable) movement of the 'T'-tail visible on the footage.
> That was a Gulfstream. Falcon tails do not wobble.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
To be precise, the aircraft being referred to here was N87TD, a very very
early (#39) GII with AvPartners Winglets.
--
Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
I flew triple 2 again for the first time since the engine blew. She
is flying on a borrowed engine for now (a long story). I have a trip in her
to Canada in the Morning and an appraisal on Monday. Man is it good to have
her back!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Falcon Jets do not have Tails that "shake" |
In a message dated 02/26/04 13:01:23 Pacific Standard Time,
yundt(at)speakeasy.net writes:
You don't have to agree with the French Government's politics (neither do
I), but no one builds a better crafted, stronger, more efficient, better
handling business jet aircraft than Dassault.
Just ask Wing Commander Gordon...he flies one for a living!
As I say, "For a people who eat snails and frogs, the French design and build
superior airplanes."
To add to what George clarified (re: Michael Jackson, wiggling tails and
Dassault products) the venerable Falcon 20 is an 8.5 G airframe, a 25 psi pressure
vessel, and when it first came to the U.S., the FAA couldn't wrap their minds
around the fact that it didn't have an airspeed limit.
And that was their first model designed in the early 1960s!
If you want to fly have a long career in aviation, fly the best airplanes.
In biz jets, it's Falcons.*
In propeller driven twins, it's Ted Smith's designs.
I think everyone here can appreciate that.
*note I said biz jets, Bilbo. I don't want to get in the middle of the
Boeing vs. Airbus debate!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
Let me know if you are going to Vancouver, BC.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: 222 is airborn
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> I flew triple 2 again for the first time since the engine blew.
She
> is flying on a borrowed engine for now (a long story). I have a trip in
her
> to Canada in the Morning and an appraisal on Monday. Man is it good to
have
> her back!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Goooooooooood Neeeeeeeeews Jimbob!!
Have a great flight
Cheers
Russell
On 29/2/04 2:44 PM, "YOURTCFG(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> I flew triple 2 again for the first time since the engine blew. She
> is flying on a borrowed engine for now (a long story). I have a trip in her
> to Canada in the Morning and an appraisal on Monday. Man is it good to have
> her back!! jb
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Falcon Jets do not have Tails that "shake" |
Good thing I read to the last line
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Falcon Jets do not have Tails that "shake"
>
> In a message dated 02/26/04 13:01:23 Pacific Standard Time,
> yundt(at)speakeasy.net writes:
> You don't have to agree with the French Government's politics (neither do
> I), but no one builds a better crafted, stronger, more efficient, better
> handling business jet aircraft than Dassault.
>
> Just ask Wing Commander Gordon...he flies one for a living!
> As I say, "For a people who eat snails and frogs, the French design and
build
> superior airplanes."
>
> To add to what George clarified (re: Michael Jackson, wiggling tails and
> Dassault products) the venerable Falcon 20 is an 8.5 G airframe, a 25 psi
pressure
> vessel, and when it first came to the U.S., the FAA couldn't wrap their
minds
> around the fact that it didn't have an airspeed limit.
>
> And that was their first model designed in the early 1960s!
>
> If you want to fly have a long career in aviation, fly the best airplanes.
> In biz jets, it's Falcons.*
>
> In propeller driven twins, it's Ted Smith's designs.
>
> I think everyone here can appreciate that.
>
> *note I said biz jets, Bilbo. I don't want to get in the middle of the
> Boeing vs. Airbus debate!
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
HI DAD,
Yep! That is good news. I bet you're like a dog with two tails!!
Barry.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: 222 is airborn
|
| HI KIDS.
|
| I flew triple 2 again for the first time since the engine blew. She
| is flying on a borrowed engine for now (a long story). I have a trip in her
| to Canada in the Morning and an appraisal on Monday. Man is it good to have
| her back!! jb
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
Cap't. JimBob,
How long has it been since Three Twos was airborne? What was it like after
so long?
I know ... just like riding a bicycle. Only louder.
Congrats!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Falcon Jets do not have Tails that "shake" |
Thanks, George, these are interesting (and very little known) facts. Little
known among the recip crowd, at least, I believe.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "George J. Yundt III" <yundt(at)speakeasy.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Falcon Jets do not have Tails that "shake"
>
> Just to correct the record:
>
> The aircraft Michael Jackson used to return for arraignment was not "His",
> but rather was a chartered Gulfstream G-II or G-III, and WAS NOT A FALCON!
> (You may remember the Hub-Bub about the Charter operator two days later.
He
> secretly recorded MJ and his discussions in the cabin during the flight
with
> a hidden camera and the Judge issued an injunction to forbid making those
> tapes available either publicly or to be used by either side's legal team.
>
> ALL FALCON'S HAVE MID-TAILS, NONE HAVE "T" TAILS. This design was
selected
> to produce superb elevator control even at very high angle of attack and
> very slow airspeeds, and is a direct design descendant of the famous
Mirage
> Fighter that vanquished the Arab's MIG fighters in the 60's & 70's. This
> configuration eliminates the "deep tail stall" effect that haunts "T-Tail"
> jets. As a result, the Falcons are the ONLY swept wing civil aircraft
> certified without the required installation of any stick shaker, stick
> pusher or artificial means to preclude the pilot from actually approaching
a
> fully developed stall. Additionally, the current production Falcons are
the
> only jets without stall strips, vortex generators, vortelons, fences or
any
> aerodynamic "patches" to correct or modify airflow. The Falcons are the
> only aircraft that can be hand flown with full 3-axis authority into and
> through a fully developed aerodynamic stall, as well as through transonic
> flight of Mach .95 - .97 (we do this on demo flights with guest pilots in
> the left seat and allow banks during this maneuver to 60 degrees!) at the
> other end of the envelope, where the flow over the wing equals Mach 1.0
and
> you can see the shock wave on the wing and sometimes the condensate
"cloud"
> just aft of the shock wave. A further indication of a Falcon's strength
> (versus that of ANY other bizjet): 1) there is NO published Turbulence
> Penetration Speed (Meaning that the Vmo/Mmo is the only limit for even
> penetrating a thunderstorm, though not recommended) and 2) it is the ONLY
> FAR Part 25 airframe certified by the FAA with an UNLIMITED Service Life
(No
> hour nor cycle limits)
>
> You don't have to agree with the French Government's politics (neither do
> I), but no one builds a better crafted, stronger, more efficient, better
> handling business jet aircraft than Dassault.
>
> Just ask Wing Commander Gordon...he flies one for a living!
>
> GJY III
> 708.349.2121
> yundt(at)speakeasy.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
In a message dated 2/29/2004 12:30:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
Let me know if you are going to Vancouver, BC.
Tom F.
The airplane is now in Abbosford. The newly installed engine put a rod
through the case 20 seconds after takeoff. It started an engine fire that burned
all the wiring on the outboard side of the engine and warped the lower cowling.
I landed without incident, but the airplane is now dead in a foreign
country. I am getting a little frustrated and a lot discouraged. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
In a message dated 2/29/2004 9:13:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
I know ... just like riding a bicycle. Only louder.
Good thing to. 20 seconds after take off from Abbotford, the newly installed
(LH) engine through a rod through the case (maybe a counterweight) It
started an engine fire that did a lot of damage including warping the lower cowling.
It flew arounf fine. I had 190 gal, 300 pounds of tools so it was pretty
light. It climbed easily after the engine was secured. I am getting pretty
beaten up about now. Came home on the "crowd killer". jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
In a message dated 02/29/04 22:15:38 Pacific Standard Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
It flew arounf fine. I had 190 gal, 300 pounds of tools so it was pretty
light. It climbed easily after the engine was secured. I am getting pretty
beaten up about now.
You're good. And I'd prefer to say that you're "seasoned." Sorry that
Triple Two is A.O.G. away from home base. I know that will complicate things.
Glad you're safe ... but as I said, you're good and your were in a Commander
...
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
Bad news, I am an hour by road from Abbotsford so if there is anything I can
do let me know.
I hold a Search & Rescue exercise in Abbotsford every month so if it is
still here by then I'll go and have a look at it.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 222 is airborn
>
> In a message dated 2/29/2004 12:30:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
> Let me know if you are going to Vancouver, BC.
> Tom F.
> The airplane is now in Abbosford. The newly installed engine put a rod
> through the case 20 seconds after takeoff. It started an engine fire that
burned
> all the wiring on the outboard side of the engine and warped the lower
cowling.
> I landed without incident, but the airplane is now dead in a foreign
> country. I am getting a little frustrated and a lot discouraged. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
Thanks. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
JB;
Sorry to hear about your engine, know how frustrating that can be, but
STOP and count your BLESSINGS. With time we tend to forget our expenses
and frustrations and savor the good times.
God Bless, Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 222 is airborn |
In a message dated 3/1/2004 8:06:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dongirod(at)earthlink.net writes:
savor the good times.
God Bless, Don
Thanks Don, God is in control. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget(at)shaw.ca> |
Good morning folks,
The Lord indeed moves in strange ways. Last Tuesday I was laid off - my former
employer hasn't won a contract for the last year or so and are cutting staff.
I was one of them. Ten minutes later being laid off, I received a phone-call to
say that my younger son, Joshua, seven years old, was in the Emergency Room
at our local hospital suffering from "minor seizures". But the Lord is good -
the prognosis wasn't as bad as it sounded: it turns out that he suffers from migraines.
At seven?
Not a nice week, but on Monday I was informed that my book is on Publish America's 'new releases' page. If anybody is interested, please look at http://www.publishamerica.com/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?catalogid=4091
Prior to my layoff, Bridget and I had decided that all proceeds from the book would go towards adopting an orphan in China. That still stands. I believe I am in a fairly strong position and will soon be re-employed. Hopefully we will still have some of my severance package left over to put towards the adoption fund :-) We believe that this is what God is calling us to do. If anybody is interested in reading more about the adoption, please visit my website: http://www.JoshStaffordBooks.com
Once again, thanks to you all for your help in Twin Commander information - the
Commander List gets a special mention in the acknowledgements, along with a
few others.
Blue skies and calm weather to you all,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Book released |
In a message dated 3/3/2004 7:17:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
andrew.bridget(at)shaw.ca writes:
Blue skies and calm weather to you all,
I will be praying for your situation, God is good!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Book released |
Some Email arrived with the name "705730(at)matronics.com" in it, I think it is
a virus, careful.
Tom F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
DNA: not not archive
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
First let me say that I normally don't condone the sharing of warnings
about Internet viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. I don't want to
start a storm of discussion regarding computer viruses on the Lists, so
please just note the information below and refrain from commenting to
the List. The circumstances I describe below are disturbing enough
that I felt an explanation is necessary. That being said...
There is a new email-bourne virus running rampant on the Internet that
is cleverly disguising itself as legitimate email warning of such
things as:
"your email account is disabled because of unauthorized access"
"Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail
content) outgoing from your e-mail account"
"Probably, you have been infected by a proxy-relay trojan server. In
order to keep your computer safe, follow the instructions."
"Our main mailing server will be temporary unavailable for next two
days, to continue receiving mail in these days you have to
configure our free auto-forwarding service."
All of these messages include an attachment that you are instructed to
click upon to "Get more information", "clean the virus from your
system", or "check your system for infections".
These enclosures all contain a virus that will infect your system and
propagate even more copies of the original message.
The disturbing part of these messages is that they appear to be coming
from very legitimate addresses and have very legitimate, convincing
dialog. For example, I have received a number of them today that
appear to be from "support(at)matronics.com", "management(at)matronics.com",
"administration(at)matronics.com", and "staff(at)matronics.com".
The text of the messages seems believable enough, and given the forged
source address, seem even more legitimate.
Please be assured that no one at Matronics.com will be sending you
these kinds of messages. If you receive one, it is a spam/virus that
has forged headers and was sent to you from someone other than
Matronics. Delete the message and the attachment promptly. Invest in
a copy of Norton Antivirus and keep the definitions up dated on a daily
basis.
Again, I want to stress that I *DO NOT* want a big discussion of
viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. Please do not reply to this
email with any comments. You may write to me directly at
dralle(at)matronics.com if you wish, but do not include the List.
Since many of these appear to come from matronics.com, I wanted to
assure everyone that Matronics wasn't the real source of these messages.
Let's be careful out there and keep those virus definitions up to date!
Today alone, the Matronics spam filter and virus blocking appliance
has filtered out 11,550 spam messages and 375 viruses! That's just in
an 18 hour period!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From |
Matronics...
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: Commander-List: [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be
From Matronics...
Dear Listers,
First let me say that I normally don't condone the sharing of warnings
about Internet viruses on the Matronics Email Lists
**************************************************
Don't feel picked on, Matt.
This morning I got that mail from staff(at)sbcglobal.net. The attachment
was a zip file that purportedly had a password associated with it that
was in the email.
It seemed very authentic, but I checked with my provider who confirmed
it was a spam virus. Delete and it was gone.
Thanks for the notice. It really is important.
Deneal Schilmeister
1995 SL320 100k
St. Louis & Cincinnati
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
________________________________________________________________________________
Bounce-To: "Kelly Piper" <kellyp@air-matrix.com>
Hi everyone, Just wanted to share an experience with the group. Last weekend
upon leaving Laughlin, Nevada for Arlington, WA we encountered a sizeable
fuel leak from behind the co-pilot's panel. It happened after right engine
start-up and after a very quick shutdown (the leak was a steady stream) we
were able to isolate it to the right engine 3-in-1 guage (oil temp, oil
pressure, and fuel pressure). It appears that the aneroid wafer for the fuel
pressure ruptured and the case failed to contain the fuel in the instrument
case.
All of our guages were sent in for test/calibration less than a year ago, but
the 3-in-1 guages were not opened - only bench tested. The records for
N2732B do not show a last overhaul date on either guage so it is possible
that it has been many years since they were last opened and inspected. I
sent both guages in for overhaul as the other guage probably would be next to
go. Also of note was that there was no "early indicator" of the failure -
the fuel pressure was reading normal right up to the point of failure.
I guess the moral of the story is to specify an overhaul on critical but
functioning critical guages if it has been several years since the last
overhaul. Fortunatly, the Man was looking out for us and it happened on the
ground and not in flight.
On the same topic, does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the
3-in-1's that uses a sender unit on the fuel pressure side vs. direct
reading? I really don't like the idea of fuel under pressure routed to the
instrument panel and would be interested in alternative solutions.
Thanks,
Kelly Piper
N2732B
Arlington Washington
Kelly Piper
Director of Operations,
AirMatrix
360-435-7343
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Steele" <bob.steele(at)kzf.com> |
Call Gary Kromer at Commander Aero. He has some solutions.
Bob Steele
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kelly
Piper
Subject: Commander-List: Cabin Fuel Leak
Hi everyone, Just wanted to share an experience with the group. Last
weekend
upon leaving Laughlin, Nevada for Arlington, WA we encountered a sizeable
fuel leak from behind the co-pilot's panel. It happened after right engine
start-up and after a very quick shutdown (the leak was a steady stream) we
were able to isolate it to the right engine 3-in-1 guage (oil temp, oil
pressure, and fuel pressure). It appears that the aneroid wafer for the
fuel
pressure ruptured and the case failed to contain the fuel in the instrument
case.
All of our guages were sent in for test/calibration less than a year ago,
but
the 3-in-1 guages were not opened - only bench tested. The records for
N2732B do not show a last overhaul date on either guage so it is possible
that it has been many years since they were last opened and inspected. I
sent both guages in for overhaul as the other guage probably would be next
to
go. Also of note was that there was no "early indicator" of the failure -
the fuel pressure was reading normal right up to the point of failure.
I guess the moral of the story is to specify an overhaul on critical but
functioning critical guages if it has been several years since the last
overhaul. Fortunatly, the Man was looking out for us and it happened on the
ground and not in flight.
On the same topic, does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the
3-in-1's that uses a sender unit on the fuel pressure side vs. direct
reading? I really don't like the idea of fuel under pressure routed to the
instrument panel and would be interested in alternative solutions.
Thanks,
Kelly Piper
N2732B
Arlington Washington
Kelly Piper
Director of Operations,
AirMatrix
360-435-7343
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Fuel Leak |
While you're back there you had better replace the hoses that go to the
guage. Mine were 40 years old.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Piper" <kellyp@air-matrix.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Cabin Fuel Leak
<kellyp@air-matrix.com>
>
> Hi everyone, Just wanted to share an experience with the group. Last
weekend
> upon leaving Laughlin, Nevada for Arlington, WA we encountered a sizeable
> fuel leak from behind the co-pilot's panel. It happened after right
engine
> start-up and after a very quick shutdown (the leak was a steady stream) we
> were able to isolate it to the right engine 3-in-1 guage (oil temp, oil
> pressure, and fuel pressure). It appears that the aneroid wafer for the
fuel
> pressure ruptured and the case failed to contain the fuel in the
instrument
> case.
>
> All of our guages were sent in for test/calibration less than a year ago,
but
> the 3-in-1 guages were not opened - only bench tested. The records for
> N2732B do not show a last overhaul date on either guage so it is possible
> that it has been many years since they were last opened and inspected. I
> sent both guages in for overhaul as the other guage probably would be next
to
> go. Also of note was that there was no "early indicator" of the failure -
> the fuel pressure was reading normal right up to the point of failure.
>
> I guess the moral of the story is to specify an overhaul on critical but
> functioning critical guages if it has been several years since the last
> overhaul. Fortunatly, the Man was looking out for us and it happened on
the
> ground and not in flight.
>
> On the same topic, does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the
> 3-in-1's that uses a sender unit on the fuel pressure side vs. direct
> reading? I really don't like the idea of fuel under pressure routed to
the
> instrument panel and would be interested in alternative solutions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kelly Piper
> N2732B
> Arlington Washington
>
> Kelly Piper
> Director of Operations,
> AirMatrix
> 360-435-7343
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Bounce-To: "Kelly Piper" <kellyp@air-matrix.com>
-->While you're back there you had better replace the hoses that go to the
-->guage. Mine were 40 years old.
Excellent point Bilbo.
Fortunately, Every hose and any suspect hydraulic lines were replaced last
year as part of the restoration. The hoses we pulled out were in pretty
scary shape. One engine fuel hose was worn through the metal mesh and had
exposed the soft inner rubber liner. In the engine compartment, the proper
routing and securing of ALL lines and hoses cannot be overstated. Through
the years, replacement lines and hoses were haphazardly routed and several
were rubbing against the engine mounts and other areas where vibration had
really torn them up.
Particular attention should be paid to routing lines and hoses so that the
relative motion of the engine on the engine mount pads and the fixed items
like the engine mounts, nacelles, oil cooler, firewall fittings, etc do not
create any kind of stress or rub points. It's amazing how many "mechanics"
will just install a hose without taking relative motion into account or
securing it in any way.
Kelly Piper
Commander 560A N2732B
Director Of Operations
AirMatrix
Kelly Piper
Director of Operations,
AirMatrix
360-435-7343
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello CommanderLand,
Whle compiling data for 'Fact Files' on each Model, I notice that the Type
Certificate Data Sheets invariably refer to "PCLM" on the first line of Model.
For instance, Type Certificate Data Sheet No. 2A4 shows the following as the
first line for the Model 680:
"1 - Model 680, 7 PCLM (Normal Category)........ etc"
My question is, what does "PCLM" stand for? Is it connected to the seating
capacity?
Kindest Regards,
Barry Collman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What is PCLM ? |
In a message dated 3/5/2004 9:58:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
"PCLM"
There will be a number in front the referes to the total number of seats.
So, it is 6 (P) = Place, (C) = Cabin (L)=Landpane (M)= Monoplane. 6 place,
cabin, landpalne monoplane. Hope that helps. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is PCLM ? |
Terrific - thanks, that's great!
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: What is PCLM ?
|
| In a message dated 3/5/2004 9:58:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
| barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
| "PCLM"
| There will be a number in front the referes to the total number of seats.
| So, it is 6 (P) = Place, (C) = Cabin (L)=Landpane (M)= Monoplane. 6 place,
| cabin, landpalne monoplane. Hope that helps. jb
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello again CommanderLand,
In the Type Certificate Data Sheets, certain Speeds are quoted. I would like to
make sure I'm using the correct "V"-speeds for these, so if anybody can help
by confirming or correcting the following, I'll be grateful:
Maneuvering (Va)
Maximum Structural Cruising (Vno)
Never Exceed (Vne)
Flaps Extended - half (Vfe?)
Flaps Extended - full (Vfe?)
Landing Gear Extended (Vle)
I suppose I'm really asking what Vfe is. Is it:
1). the maximum speed you can fly at with the flaps already down, or
2). the maximum speed, below which you can start to lower the flaps
Also, what is the difference between:
Vmo (Maximum Operating limit speed)
Vno (Maximum structural cruising speed) and was this formerly known as Normal Operating
speed?
From a non-flying pen-pusher, Thanks!
Barry C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
Commander-List Digest Server wrote:*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can be also be found in either
of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2004-03-05.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2004-03-05.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 03/05/04: 4
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:56 AM - What is PCLM ? (Barry Collman)
2. 10:08 AM - Re: What is PCLM ? (YOURTCFG(at)aol.com)
3. 11:37 AM - Re: What is PCLM ? (Barry Collman)
4. 12:48 PM - V-Speeds (Barry Collman)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: "Barry Collman"
Subject: Commander-List: What is PCLM ?
Hello CommanderLand,
Whle compiling data for 'Fact Files' on each Model, I notice that the Type
Certificate Data Sheets invariably refer to "PCLM" on the first line of Model.
For instance, Type Certificate Data Sheet No. 2A4 shows the following as the
first line for the Model 680:
"1 - Model 680, 7 PCLM (Normal Category)........ etc"
My question is, what does "PCLM" stand for? Is it connected to the seating
capacity?
Kindest Regards,
Barry Collman
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: What is PCLM ?
In a message dated 3/5/2004 9:58:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
"PCLM"
There will be a number in front the referes to the total number of seats.
So, it is 6 (P) = Place, (C) = Cabin (L)=Landpane (M)= Monoplane. 6 place,
cabin, landpalne monoplane. Hope that helps. jb
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
From: "Barry Collman"
Subject: Re: Commander-List: What is PCLM ?
Terrific - thanks, that's great!
BC
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Commander-List: What is PCLM ?
|
| In a message dated 3/5/2004 9:58:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
| barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
| "PCLM"
| There will be a number in front the referes to the total number of seats.
| So, it is 6 (P) = Place, (C) = Cabin (L)=Landpane (M)= Monoplane. 6 place,
| cabin, landpalne monoplane. Hope that helps. jb
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
From: "Barry Collman"
Subject: Commander-List: V-Speeds
Hello again CommanderLand,
In the Type Certificate Data Sheets, certain Speeds are quoted. I would like to
make sure I'm using the correct "V"-speeds for these, so if anybody can help
by confirming or correcting the following, I'll be grateful:
Maneuvering (Va)
Maximum Structural Cruising (Vno)
Never Exceed (Vne)
Flaps Extended - half (Vfe?)
Flaps Extended - full (Vfe?)
Landing Gear Extended (Vle)
I suppose I'm really asking what Vfe is. Is it:
1). the maximum speed you can fly at with the flaps already down, or
2). the maximum speed, below which you can start to lower the flaps
Also, what is the difference between:
Vmo (Maximum Operating limit speed)
Vno (Maximum structural cruising speed) and was this formerly known as Normal Operating
speed?
From a non-flying pen-pusher, Thanks!
Barry C.
==============================
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Commander Friends.
I am in need of a "former" ( I would call it a support stringer) for the left engine
nacell. It is the support for the skin of the nacell just aft of the exhaust
on my 1964 500B. If you know of one I can beg, borrow, or more likely buy
please let me know.
thank you
dan farmer 719 332 5601
Commander-List Digest Server wrote:
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can be also be found in either
of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2004-03-05.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2004-03-05.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 03/05/04: 4
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:56 AM - What is PCLM ? (Barry Collman)
2. 10:08 AM - Re: What is PCLM ? (YOURTCFG(at)aol.com)
3. 11:37 AM - Re: What is PCLM ? (Barry Collman)
4. 12:48 PM - V-Speeds (Barry Collman)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: "Barry Collman"
Subject: Commander-List: What is PCLM ?
Hello CommanderLand,
Whle compiling data for 'Fact Files' on each Model, I notice that the Type
Certificate Data Sheets invariably refer to "PCLM" on the first line of Model.
For instance, Type Certificate Data Sheet No. 2A4 shows the following as the
first line for the Model 680:
"1 - Model 680, 7 PCLM (Normal Category)........ etc"
My question is, what does "PCLM" stand for? Is it connected to the seating
capacity?
Kindest Regards,
Barry Collman
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: What is PCLM ?
In a message dated 3/5/2004 9:58:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
"PCLM"
There will be a number in front the referes to the total number of seats.
So, it is 6 (P) = Place, (C) = Cabin (L)=Landpane (M)= Monoplane. 6 place,
cabin, landpalne monoplane. Hope that helps. jb
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
From: "Barry Collman"
Subject: Re: Commander-List: What is PCLM ?
Terrific - thanks, that's great!
BC
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Commander-List: What is PCLM ?
|
| In a message dated 3/5/2004 9:58:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
| barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
| "PCLM"
| There will be a number in front the referes to the total number of seats.
| So, it is 6 (P) = Place, (C) = Cabin (L)=Landpane (M)= Monoplane. 6 place,
| cabin, landpalne monoplane. Hope that helps. jb
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
From: "Barry Collman"
Subject: Commander-List: V-Speeds
Hello again CommanderLand,
In the Type Certificate Data Sheets, certain Speeds are quoted. I would like to
make sure I'm using the correct "V"-speeds for these, so if anybody can help
by confirming or correcting the following, I'll be grateful:
Maneuvering (Va)
Maximum Structural Cruising (Vno)
Never Exceed (Vne)
Flaps Extended - half (Vfe?)
Flaps Extended - full (Vfe?)
Landing Gear Extended (Vle)
I suppose I'm really asking what Vfe is. Is it:
1). the maximum speed you can fly at with the flaps already down, or
2). the maximum speed, below which you can start to lower the flaps
Also, what is the difference between:
Vmo (Maximum Operating limit speed)
Vno (Maximum structural cruising speed) and was this formerly known as Normal Operating
speed?
From a non-flying pen-pusher, Thanks!
Barry C.
==============================
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I got this from a friend and although it is not directly related to flying
it could be if you are in the plane with some one that is having a problem.
Jim Addington
Recognizing a stroke
This might be a lifesaver if we can remember the three questions!
Is It a Stroke?
This was published in a monthly newsletter where a friend of mine lives and
she sent it on. I had never heard this advice before and hadn't a clue.
Perhaps you hadn't either and would like to file it away in the back of your
head.
Sometimes symptoms of a stroke are difficult to identify. Unfortunately, the
lack of awareness spells disaster. The stroke victim may suffer brain damage
when people nearby fail to recognize the symptoms of a stroke. Now doctors
say any bystander can recognize a stroke asking three simple questions:
* ask the individual to smile.
* ask him or her to raise both arms.
* ask the person to speak a simple sentence.
If he or she has trouble with any of these tasks, call 9-1-1 immediately and
describe the symptoms to the dispatcher. After discovering that a group of
nonmedical volunteers could identify facial weakness, arm weakness and
speech problems, researchers urged the general public to learn the three
questions. They presented their conclusions at the American
Stroke Association's annual meeting last February. Widespread use of this
test could result in prompt diagnosis and treatment of the stroke and
prevent brain damage."
PASS IT ON...............
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking to buy |
Harry,
Are you open to any payment plans?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Merritt" <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Looking to buy
>
> Call Me!
> Harry 321 267-3141
> 1964 680FLP MR. RPM I0-720 Turbo, Automatic waste gates, 170SMOH, Props
> O,With New long Blades
> Fresh Annual. New Cleveland's,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Looking to buy
>
>
>
> >
> > If anyone comes across a 680FLP with the Mr.RPM conversion would you let
> me
> > know.
> > The one I was one the verge of buying has been pulled off the market.
> > Tom F.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking to buy |
Make me a offer on Down and what per month
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Looking to buy
>
> Harry,
> Are you open to any payment plans?
> Tom F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harry Merritt" <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Looking to buy
>
>
>
> >
> > Call Me!
> > Harry 321 267-3141
> > 1964 680FLP MR. RPM I0-720 Turbo, Automatic waste gates, 170SMOH, Props
> > O,With New long Blades
> > Fresh Annual. New Cleveland's,
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> > To:
> > Subject: Commander-List: Looking to buy
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > If anyone comes across a 680FLP with the Mr.RPM conversion would you
let
> > me
> > > know.
> > > The one I was one the verge of buying has been pulled off the market.
> > > Tom F.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: nacell former |
Dear Dan,
You might try Jack Chappell (Commander Dock) at 909.371.7513. He is in
Riverside, CA., and I have found him to be quite nice to deal with.
Good Luck
Moe Mills
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 03/05/04 12:48:45 Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
I suppose I'm really asking what Vfe is. Is it:
1). the maximum speed you can fly at with the flaps already down, or
2). the maximum speed, below which you can start to lower the flaps
Also, what is the difference between:
Vmo (Maximum Operating limit speed)
Vno (Maximum structural cruising speed) and was this formerly known as Normal
Operating speed?
Sir Barry,
Sorry for taking so long to reply. My day job gets in the way at times.
Hope you found the info you're looking for.
If not, or, at the risk of repeating what you've already learned:
Vfe / Vfo is the same on the Aero Commanders. Vfe is the maximum flap
extended speed and Vfo is the maximum speed you can operate the flaps.
Some aircraft may have actuators that can't push against a certain airload
(that would be an example of Vfo) and some aircraft have flap tracks, hardware,
etc. that would rip off beyond a certain speed. That would give you an idea
of Vfe.
"Vfe = Velocity Flaps Extended Speed - keeps you from ripping the flaps off
when deployed but also takes into account the additional lift effect that flaps
have on limit loads during maneuvering or gust encounters. Aircraft must
withstand 2g positive limit load factor and gusts of 25fps with flaps extended
at
this speed."
The same would apply to Vlo / Vle for landing gear. An aircraft that has
doors that open, then close after gear extention would have a Vlo lower than Vle,
for example. With the Commanders, the nose gear doors and nacelle doors
remain open in the slip stream, so that's what probably limits the Vlo/Vle in our
aircraft.
Not sure the exact engineering definition of Vmo is, but here's Vno and that
may shead some light:
Vne = Velocity Never Exceed - do not exceed this speed at any time.
Vno = Maximum Structural Cruising Speed - a limit that takes into account
gust encounters at high cruising speeds, do not exceed this speed except in
smooth air and then only with extreme caution.
You were correct on Va, Vle, Vfe, etc.
Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:33:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
etc.
Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
Thanks, great refresher! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I cannot remember all the v-limitations any longer but I loved flying
thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps like
in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust in
the carpets. The theory is that the wings would rather stall than bend at
that speed and there is just not sufficient vertical or lateral velocity to
bend the fuselage. Even with that approach I was sucked up as much as 10,000
feet into the storm on several occasions trying to contain the airspeed and
if I didn't fly through the cell to the other side, it probably would have
taken me much higher. Storm cells are usually very small and squall lines
and large storms are made up of many cells through which one can fly if you
want to go up and down more than forward. Provided you don't pick up hail,
of course. That will pick you apart like a Lego building.
Microbursts became familiar to me only after that airliner crashed close to
the runway a couple of years ago (I believe it was during a landing) and
then I realized that I flew microbursts on many occasions in the past. Every
time it happened I kept my cool by considering what it is that nature is
giving me for free and when will she take it back again. So, I would not be
lulled into trying to maintain glide angle or approach speeds. And sure
enough, not long afterwards nature would take back what she gave out. I
realize moving a small plane (7000# or less) around in the atmosphere is
much less dramatic than a 300K# airliner, so I am not trying to diminish the
seriousness of the phenomenon, but they can be flown in certain
circumstances.
A debate that has never been resolved, as far as I know at least, is whether
one would drop the undercarriage on CB penetration or not. Some say the
extra appendages hanging below the wings cause further stress on the
fuselage while others say the extra drag would prevent sudden overspeeding.
I preferred to keep the undercarriage tucked in. What say you, wise ones?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
> In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:33:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> etc.
> Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
> Thanks, great refresher! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
After reading this Email, (although I love the details), this smart pilot
will continue to stay out of the thunder storms.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
> I cannot remember all the v-limitations any longer but I loved flying
> thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps
like
> in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
> Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
> speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust
in
> the carpets. The theory is that the wings would rather stall than bend at
> that speed and there is just not sufficient vertical or lateral velocity
to
> bend the fuselage. Even with that approach I was sucked up as much as
10,000
> feet into the storm on several occasions trying to contain the airspeed
and
> if I didn't fly through the cell to the other side, it probably would have
> taken me much higher. Storm cells are usually very small and squall lines
> and large storms are made up of many cells through which one can fly if
you
> want to go up and down more than forward. Provided you don't pick up hail,
> of course. That will pick you apart like a Lego building.
> Microbursts became familiar to me only after that airliner crashed close
to
> the runway a couple of years ago (I believe it was during a landing) and
> then I realized that I flew microbursts on many occasions in the past.
Every
> time it happened I kept my cool by considering what it is that nature is
> giving me for free and when will she take it back again. So, I would not
be
> lulled into trying to maintain glide angle or approach speeds. And sure
> enough, not long afterwards nature would take back what she gave out. I
> realize moving a small plane (7000# or less) around in the atmosphere is
> much less dramatic than a 300K# airliner, so I am not trying to diminish
the
> seriousness of the phenomenon, but they can be flown in certain
> circumstances.
> A debate that has never been resolved, as far as I know at least, is
whether
> one would drop the undercarriage on CB penetration or not. Some say the
> extra appendages hanging below the wings cause further stress on the
> fuselage while others say the extra drag would prevent sudden
overspeeding.
> I preferred to keep the undercarriage tucked in. What say you, wise ones?
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:33:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> > etc.
> > Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
> > Thanks, great refresher! jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
YOU'RE NUTS!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
> I cannot remember all the v-limitations any longer but I loved flying
> thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps
like
> in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
> Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
> speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust
in
> the carpets. The theory is that the wings would rather stall than bend at
> that speed and there is just not sufficient vertical or lateral velocity
to
> bend the fuselage. Even with that approach I was sucked up as much as
10,000
> feet into the storm on several occasions trying to contain the airspeed
and
> if I didn't fly through the cell to the other side, it probably would have
> taken me much higher. Storm cells are usually very small and squall lines
> and large storms are made up of many cells through which one can fly if
you
> want to go up and down more than forward. Provided you don't pick up hail,
> of course. That will pick you apart like a Lego building.
> Microbursts became familiar to me only after that airliner crashed close
to
> the runway a couple of years ago (I believe it was during a landing) and
> then I realized that I flew microbursts on many occasions in the past.
Every
> time it happened I kept my cool by considering what it is that nature is
> giving me for free and when will she take it back again. So, I would not
be
> lulled into trying to maintain glide angle or approach speeds. And sure
> enough, not long afterwards nature would take back what she gave out. I
> realize moving a small plane (7000# or less) around in the atmosphere is
> much less dramatic than a 300K# airliner, so I am not trying to diminish
the
> seriousness of the phenomenon, but they can be flown in certain
> circumstances.
> A debate that has never been resolved, as far as I know at least, is
whether
> one would drop the undercarriage on CB penetration or not. Some say the
> extra appendages hanging below the wings cause further stress on the
> fuselage while others say the extra drag would prevent sudden
overspeeding.
> I preferred to keep the undercarriage tucked in. What say you, wise ones?
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:33:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> > etc.
> > Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
> > Thanks, great refresher! jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net> |
On 3/9/04 10:35, "css nico" wrote:
> but I loved flying
> thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps like
> in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
> Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
> speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust in
> the carpets.
NICO:
Are you old?
YOUR STORY Reminds me of a time when I flew cargo in a C402 five nights a
week. I had the boss on board, and we had to hold beneath a Tstorm right
over the Midway Airport in Chicago. De plane was bucking like a bull,
rising and dropping as we flew around in the holding pattern.
I was scared to death, but the boss as standing up behind the pilots seat,
slapping me on the back, gleefully shouting "ride em cowboy... Whoohoo!!!"
26 years later its a memory I can't seem to forget.
--
Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet--(OLD, NOT BOLD)
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Perhaps saying that I was never reckless would pale in the aftermath of my
recollections of many years ago.
One thing I always was before popping the nose of the plane into the soup,
was very nervous and aware of the power of the beast
ahead of me. I would pick my spot and be well prepared. There were times
when vertigo would be so severe that maintaining focus was near impossible.
That was the real adrenalin. During one encounter I nearly lost it when for
no reason I started singing "Waltzing Mathilda" and within a second I was
back in the saddle.
I told that to a friend of mine and it was less than a year later when he
called me and told me he regained control after an IFR instrument (non
critical but panic inducing) failure when he remembered what I told him,
and sang Mathilda's song. He had his kids with him.
I am saying this because my guess is that your boss was more scared than you
and that was the only way he could keep his pants dry.
Thanks for sharing that with us, Daneal.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
> On 3/9/04 10:35, "css nico" wrote:
>
> > but I loved flying
> > thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps
like
> > in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
> > Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
> > speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust
in
> > the carpets.
>
> NICO:
>
> Are you old?
>
> YOUR STORY Reminds me of a time when I flew cargo in a C402 five nights a
> week. I had the boss on board, and we had to hold beneath a Tstorm right
> over the Midway Airport in Chicago. De plane was bucking like a bull,
> rising and dropping as we flew around in the holding pattern.
>
> I was scared to death, but the boss as standing up behind the pilots seat,
> slapping me on the back, gleefully shouting "ride em cowboy... Whoohoo!!!"
>
> 26 years later its a memory I can't seem to forget.
>
> --
> Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet--(OLD, NOT BOLD)
> St. Louis, Missouri USA
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I received very accurate assessments of my character. Thanks, guys.
I am much older now, by the grace of God I must add.
Pity that something as precious as youth has to be wasted on the young,
dont' you think?
I did like the ride, though. Passengers never shared my passion for riding
CB's.
Some puked, some kissed the ground like the pope and some never flew again.
I wonder why.
Would I do it today?
Naaah!
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
> YOU'RE NUTS!
>
> bilbo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
>
>
> >
> > I cannot remember all the v-limitations any longer but I loved flying
> > thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps
> like
> > in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
> > Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
> > speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust
> in
> > the carpets. The theory is that the wings would rather stall than bend
at
> > that speed and there is just not sufficient vertical or lateral velocity
> to
> > bend the fuselage. Even with that approach I was sucked up as much as
> 10,000
> > feet into the storm on several occasions trying to contain the airspeed
> and
> > if I didn't fly through the cell to the other side, it probably would
have
> > taken me much higher. Storm cells are usually very small and squall
lines
> > and large storms are made up of many cells through which one can fly if
> you
> > want to go up and down more than forward. Provided you don't pick up
hail,
> > of course. That will pick you apart like a Lego building.
> > Microbursts became familiar to me only after that airliner crashed close
> to
> > the runway a couple of years ago (I believe it was during a landing) and
> > then I realized that I flew microbursts on many occasions in the past.
> Every
> > time it happened I kept my cool by considering what it is that nature is
> > giving me for free and when will she take it back again. So, I would
not
> be
> > lulled into trying to maintain glide angle or approach speeds. And sure
> > enough, not long afterwards nature would take back what she gave out. I
> > realize moving a small plane (7000# or less) around in the atmosphere is
> > much less dramatic than a 300K# airliner, so I am not trying to diminish
> the
> > seriousness of the phenomenon, but they can be flown in certain
> > circumstances.
> > A debate that has never been resolved, as far as I know at least, is
> whether
> > one would drop the undercarriage on CB penetration or not. Some say the
> > extra appendages hanging below the wings cause further stress on the
> > fuselage while others say the extra drag would prevent sudden
> overspeeding.
> > I preferred to keep the undercarriage tucked in. What say you, wise
ones?
> > Nico
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:33:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> > > etc.
> > > Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
> > > Thanks, great refresher! jb
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Buddy - Downunder! |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day All,
A big OzCommanderland welcome to Buddy and Kerry on their arrival down-under
today!
They will be catching up with Richard soon to have a look at the final
stages of his 680E VH-CAX rebuild in Sydney.
Hey, it sure is nice to talk to Buddy on short distance cell rates for a
change.
Buddy and Kerry are also travelling to Melbourne, the Twin Commander capital
of Oz...we hope they enjoy their stay!
Cheers
Russell
PS Just thought I should mention that Buddy looks great "Upside Down"!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Buddy - Downunder! |
Hi Russell,
What! Buddy's been let loose in Oz!! If you talk to him, please pass on my very
best regards,
Barry (UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Legg" <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Commander-List: Buddy - Downunder!
|
| G'day All,
|
| A big OzCommanderland welcome to Buddy and Kerry on their arrival down-under
| today!
|
| They will be catching up with Richard soon to have a look at the final
| stages of his 680E VH-CAX rebuild in Sydney.
|
| Hey, it sure is nice to talk to Buddy on short distance cell rates for a
| change.
|
| Buddy and Kerry are also travelling to Melbourne, the Twin Commander capital
| of Oz...we hope they enjoy their stay!
|
| Cheers
|
| Russell
|
| PS Just thought I should mention that Buddy looks great "Upside Down"!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Buddy - Downunder! |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Certainly will!
On 11/3/04 3:53 AM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
> <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Russell,
>
> What! Buddy's been let loose in Oz!! If you talk to him, please pass on my
> very
> best regards,
>
> Barry (UK)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Russell Legg" <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Buddy - Downunder!
>
>
> |
> | G'day All,
> |
> | A big OzCommanderland welcome to Buddy and Kerry on their arrival down-under
> | today!
> |
> | They will be catching up with Richard soon to have a look at the final
> | stages of his 680E VH-CAX rebuild in Sydney.
> |
> | Hey, it sure is nice to talk to Buddy on short distance cell rates for a
> | change.
> |
> | Buddy and Kerry are also travelling to Melbourne, the Twin Commander capital
> | of Oz...we hope they enjoy their stay!
> |
> | Cheers
> |
> | Russell
> |
> | PS Just thought I should mention that Buddy looks great "Upside Down"!
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Dominguez" <dan(at)worldflight2000.com> |
| Subject: | Commander Requested in New York (HPN) |
TCFG Members...
There is a company in White Plains that would like to have an aerocommander on
May 26th to be used as a static display during an airport banquet in White Plains
(KHPN). They are interested in a 520. Could any 520 owners that could do
this please email me directly at:
dan(at)worldflight2000.com
I am requesting that Fritz Manning and other bathtub owners also consider. If your
airplane is able to make the banquet please fill out the following and email
back to me:
Aircraft Ownwer:
Aircraft Type:
Serial Number:
Pilot:
Aircraft Based:
Compensation Requested:
Thanks.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Coons" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net> |
| Subject: | Advertising on website |
Dan,
I would like to advertise on the aerocommander.com website. Who do I need to
talk with?
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Dominguez" <dan(at)worldflight2000.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Commander Requested in New York (HPN)
>
> TCFG Members...
> There is a company in White Plains that would like to have an
aerocommander on May 26th to be used as a static display during an airport
banquet in White Plains (KHPN). They are interested in a 520. Could any
520 owners that could do this please email me directly at:
>
> dan(at)worldflight2000.com
>
> I am requesting that Fritz Manning and other bathtub owners also consider.
If your airplane is able to make the banquet please fill out the following
and email back to me:
>
>
> Aircraft Ownwer:
> Aircraft Type:
> Serial Number:
> Pilot:
> Aircraft Based:
> Compensation Requested:
>
> Thanks.
> Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Advertising on website |
www.aso.com Aircraft shopper on line.
It Free.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Coons" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Advertising on website
>
> Dan,
>
> I would like to advertise on the aerocommander.com website. Who do I need
to
> talk with?
>
> Kevin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Dominguez" <dan(at)worldflight2000.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Commander Requested in New York (HPN)
>
>
>
> >
> > TCFG Members...
> > There is a company in White Plains that would like to have an
> aerocommander on May 26th to be used as a static display during an airport
> banquet in White Plains (KHPN). They are interested in a 520. Could any
> 520 owners that could do this please email me directly at:
> >
> > dan(at)worldflight2000.com
> >
> > I am requesting that Fritz Manning and other bathtub owners also
consider.
> If your airplane is able to make the banquet please fill out the following
> and email back to me:
> >
> >
> > Aircraft Ownwer:
> > Aircraft Type:
> > Serial Number:
> > Pilot:
> > Aircraft Based:
> > Compensation Requested:
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Dan
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Polito" <commander500b(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Fuel Leak |
Kelly:
I had the same thing happen to me a couple of years ago. Fuel is supposed to
be routed to an overboard vent but in our cases the gasket that isolates the
aneroid chamber was dried up and shrunk.
If you find an alternative gauging solution please share it with the group.
best
Dennis Polito
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Piper" <kellyp@air-matrix.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Cabin Fuel Leak
<kellyp@air-matrix.com>
>
> Hi everyone, Just wanted to share an experience with the group. Last
weekend
> upon leaving Laughlin, Nevada for Arlington, WA we encountered a sizeable
> fuel leak from behind the co-pilot's panel. It happened after right
engine
> start-up and after a very quick shutdown (the leak was a steady stream) we
> were able to isolate it to the right engine 3-in-1 guage (oil temp, oil
> pressure, and fuel pressure). It appears that the aneroid wafer for the
fuel
> pressure ruptured and the case failed to contain the fuel in the
instrument
> case.
>
> All of our guages were sent in for test/calibration less than a year ago,
but
> the 3-in-1 guages were not opened - only bench tested. The records for
> N2732B do not show a last overhaul date on either guage so it is possible
> that it has been many years since they were last opened and inspected. I
> sent both guages in for overhaul as the other guage probably would be next
to
> go. Also of note was that there was no "early indicator" of the failure -
> the fuel pressure was reading normal right up to the point of failure.
>
> I guess the moral of the story is to specify an overhaul on critical but
> functioning critical guages if it has been several years since the last
> overhaul. Fortunatly, the Man was looking out for us and it happened on
the
> ground and not in flight.
>
> On the same topic, does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the
> 3-in-1's that uses a sender unit on the fuel pressure side vs. direct
> reading? I really don't like the idea of fuel under pressure routed to
the
> instrument panel and would be interested in alternative solutions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kelly Piper
> N2732B
> Arlington Washington
>
> Kelly Piper
> Director of Operations,
> AirMatrix
> 360-435-7343
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
I just bought a pair of 93Z20 propellers that will work with the
"Heavy Hartzell" STC. If any of you 560A(HC), 560E, 680, 680E or 720 owners need
to retire that nasty Hartzell AD, I have the propellers. They are "0" time,
done by San Diego Propeller Service in 1983. The look prefect. I also have a
pair of spinners if you have the small ones. $14000 total including the STC,
less if you don't need the spinners. Hope all is well in your Commanderland.
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
Just a quick update. I bought a pair of Twin bonanzas in AZ. One
has very low time and great condition engines and "0" props. I am leaving
tomorrow morning for the long drive (1571 miles) to remove them.
I plan to have tripe two flying again in a couple weeks??? Hope all is
well in your Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> I plan to have tripe two flying again in a couple weeks
Good to hear that JB! Maybe I missed the "rest of the story", but what
exactly happened to tripple-two? All I caught was that there was some
major engine problem. Hadn't you just put new engines on her?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I walked around 222 last week and it was still safe and sound in the
compound.
Sure is a curvy looking machine, compared to my "B" anyway.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: N222JS
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> Just a quick update. I bought a pair of Twin bonanzas in AZ. One
> has very low time and great condition engines and "0" props. I am leaving
> tomorrow morning for the long drive (1571 miles) to remove them.
> I plan to have tripe two flying again in a couple weeks??? Hope all
is
> well in your Commanderland. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/21/2004 6:11:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
Sure is a curvy looking machine, compared to my "B" anyway
Thanks!! She is a saucy old gal!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/21/2004 11:34:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
Hadn't you just put new engines on her?
I had installed a "borrowed" engine on the left side. The engines that had
been represented as "0" were not. The seller is a wonderful, honest and
honorable man and when it was shown they were not overhauled, (In fact one was
red
tagged) he gave me my $$ back and loaned me an engine until I could get mine
overhauled.
I installed it and it ran great!! I flew it around here about 2 hours
and then headed to Canada on biz. About 10 seconds after takeoff from
abbotford, it through a counterweight through the case. I had retracted the LG,
but
the flaps were still down. I reached up and pulled the props to 3200 and BANG.
The counterweight knocked a huge hole on the case/oil pan and started a fire.
I burned all of the wiring on the outboard side of the engine and got hot
enough to warp the lower cowling. The fire went through the augmenter and even
burned the paint at the back of the nacelle.
I feather it and the fire went out. Landed without trouble. The
hardiest part was taxing back on one!!
Anyway, I have now found two great, low time (153 $ 395) and a pair of
"0" props in AZ. Hope to be flying again in 3 - 4 weeks. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 03/21/04 09:36:21 Pacific Standard Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
> I bought a pair of Twin bonanzas in AZ. One
> has very low time and great condition engines and "0" props. I am leaving
> tomorrow morning for the long drive (1571 miles) to remove them.
>
Let's see. A pair of Twin Bonanzas. Does that make it 4 Bonanzas? Or is
that the same Twin pairs of Bonanzas?
I just hope Dick Ward* doesn't find out you're cannibalizing his beloved
T-Bones. Next thing that will happen is the T-Bone owners will start
cannibalizing Twin Commanders.
Maybe the two groups will merge with a composite airplane: The Twin
Bonander. Or the Twin Commanza.
What ever. Glad you'll get your 680-E airborne again.
Wing Commander Gordon
* For those of you who don't know, Dick Ward is to Twin Bonanzas what our own
Capt. JimBob is to Commanders. The two aircraft were direct competitors in
their day and there is a lot of crossover on engine and airframe issues that
both groups deal with and can assist each other with.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam(at)matronics.com>) |
way of Matt Dralle )
KEITH, HAVE NICE TWIN BONANZA FOR SALE HERE IN FORT WORTH. FRIEND OF
MINE IT IS IN REAL GOOD SHAPE. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:CloudCraft(at)aol.com>CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: N222JS
CloudCraft(at)aol.com
In a message dated 03/21/04 09:36:21 Pacific Standard Time,
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
> I bought a pair of Twin bonanzas in AZ. One
> has very low time and great condition engines and "0" props. I am leaving
> tomorrow morning for the long drive (1571 miles) to remove them.
>
Let's see. A pair of Twin Bonanzas. Does that make it 4 Bonanzas? Or is
that the same Twin pairs of Bonanzas?
I just hope Dick Ward* doesn't find out you're cannibalizing his beloved
T-Bones. Next thing that will happen is the T-Bone owners will start
cannibalizing Twin Commanders.
Maybe the two groups will merge with a composite airplane: The Twin
Bonander. Or the Twin Commanza.
What ever. Glad you'll get your 680-E airborne again.
Wing Commander Gordon
* For those of you who don't know, Dick Ward is to Twin Bonanzas what our own
Capt. JimBob is to Commanders. The two aircraft were direct competitors in
their day and there is a lot of crossover on engine and airframe issues that
both groups deal with and can assist each other with.
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Report
________________________________________________________________________________
As many of you will know, Audie Murphy unfortunately lost his life in an Aero
Commander which crashed.
A contact has one of the flaps as a souvenier. I think he was one of the Civil
Air Patrol guys who helped locate the wreckage.
He is thinking of selling it via eBay, together with a few other related items,
including the history of the Commander involved, N601JJ, a Model 680, s/n
491-161, which had been converted to a Model 680E, which I sent to him a couple
of years ago.
He wondered though, before going through eBay, whether anyone on the list might
be interested?
Barry C
(UK)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Audie Murphy |
Although not knowing the whole story it sounds a bit morbid.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Commander-List: Audie Murphy
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> As many of you will know, Audie Murphy unfortunately lost his life in an
Aero
> Commander which crashed.
>
> A contact has one of the flaps as a souvenier. I think he was one of the
Civil
> Air Patrol guys who helped locate the wreckage.
>
> He is thinking of selling it via eBay, together with a few other related
items,
> including the history of the Commander involved, N601JJ, a Model 680, s/n
> 491-161, which had been converted to a Model 680E, which I sent to him a
couple
> of years ago.
>
> He wondered though, before going through eBay, whether anyone on the list
might
> be interested?
>
> Barry C
> (UK)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Audie Murphy |
yes, it does sound a bit morbid.
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <jjorrie(at)satx.rr.com> |
and devoid of some good taste for sure.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
MOEMILLS(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Audie Murphy
yes, it does sound a bit morbid.
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Audie Murphy |
I agree. I was asked to post something, which I did.
I wonder whether he'll get any bidders on eBay.
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: <MOEMILLS(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Audie Murphy
|
| yes, it does sound a bit morbid.
|
| Moe
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Audie Murphy |
Barry:
Show me a man who has never made a misteake, and I will show you a man that
has never done anything.
(however), Is this man a Civil Air Patrol, Member, Pilot, Aircraft
Commander, OR, JUST SOMEONE LOOKING TO MAKE A PROFIT????.
Jerry Sprayberry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Audie Murphy
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> I agree. I was asked to post something, which I did.
>
> I wonder whether he'll get any bidders on eBay.
>
> BC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MOEMILLS(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Audie Murphy
>
>
> |
> | yes, it does sound a bit morbid.
> |
> | Moe
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Colemill "Super 300" |
Hi Guys,
I've been asked by someone buying a Colemill 500A if I had performance figures
for this Model, and I don't.
I'm hoping he'll be joining the 'chatlist' to monitor your replies, but I also
need as much detail as I can for 'The Book'.
So, if anyone can help, please fire away!
I'm going to try a contact I had at Colemill too.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C. (UK)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/21/2004 9:48:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
I just hope Dick Ward* doesn't find out you're cannibalizing his beloved
T-Bones
I already called him to see if anyone in his group might be interested in the
airframes before I take a fire ax to them. Good news, I have already sold
both airframes!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
I would like to thank Moe Mills for the donation of a beautiful maintenance
manual for a model 720. Commander only made 13 of these airplanes (I owned
one) and believe it or don't, but we have two owners in our group. I am trying
to put together a complete set of all manuals for all Commanders for the group
and this is a very nice addition. Thanks Moe!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> I am trying to put together a complete set of all manuals for all Commanders
JB, fyi: I have parts manuals, maint. manuals, service letters, service
bulletins, and service info documents for every Commander from the 520
through the 690B if you ever need to check anything. I spent a
not-really-small fortune purchasing all of these from the factory so I
guess I'll hang on to them for a while longer on the off chance that I
ever own another Commander. I'd intended to index all the SBs and SL's
and put summaries along with a full AD list on the web site, but just
never got that done. Anyway, they're all "new" condition and are
carefully packed away for now.
chrisS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
I DO KNOW IF MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE EVER MADE IT TO THE GROUP SO I AM GOING OUT ONE
MORE TRY. I HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED A 680. IN GETTING THE ANNUAL WE DISCOVERED
THAT THE WINGLETS WERE BOGUS!!! SO ALL OUT THERE BE AWARE THAT THIS RENDERS
THE AIR CRAFT UNAIRWORTHY. ALL BUYERS AND SELLERS SHOULD CHECK THIS OUT.
THE STC HELD BY COMMANDER AERO IS THE ONLY ONE CERTIFIED FOR OUR PLANES. IF
YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE CALL ME.MASON CHEVAILLIER 817-877-4977 OFC OR
817-517-4977 MOB.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 680E Taxies Down Under |
Hi All
For those that are interested. My 680E taxied under its own power for the
fist time in 11 years. A milestone has been reached and the end is now in sight
after 3.5 years of hard work. I hope to have the old girl flyable in the next
few months. I still have to do the interior,outboard tanks and paint. AND HEAPS
OF PAPERWORK TO GET THE CofA BACK (about 7500 pounds ).
Thanks to all who have helped with parts, advice and support.
Jim, Morris, TCAC,TCFG etc.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680E Taxies Down Under |
good luck
----- Original Message -----
From: RnJThompson(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: 680E Taxies Down Under
Hi All
For those that are interested. My 680E taxied under its own power for the
fist time in 11 years. A milestone has been reached and the end is now in sight
after 3.5 years of hard work. I hope to have the old girl flyable in the next
few months. I still have to do the interior,outboard tanks and paint. AND HEAPS
OF PAPERWORK TO GET THE CofA BACK (about 7500 pounds ).
Thanks to all who have helped with parts, advice and support.
Jim, Morris, TCAC,TCFG etc.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 680E Taxies Down Under |
In a message dated 3/28/2004 2:33:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
RnJThompson(at)aol.com writes:
For those that are interested. My 680E taxied under its own power for the
fist time in 11 years.
YIPPEE!! Great to hear. I assume it is running with the "Heavy Hartzells"??
Great news jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/28/2004 9:07:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, KAMALA(at)msn.com
writes:
ALL BUYERS AND SELLERS SHOULD CHECK THIS OUT
I think there may have been a little "creative publishing" going on with my
propeller STC recently as well. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Santa Maria CA Fly-In (April 30-May 2) |
Hello everyone!
With Matt Dralle's blessing (thank you, Matt!), I'm pleased to post this announcement
for a terrific aviation fly-in weekend. SMXgig (in Santa Maria, CA) has
become the year's largest face-to-face get-together of electronically networked
aviators. We hope you'll plan to attend because we expect this year's gig to
be the best ever.
People come from all over the country (and sometimes overseas) to attend, and most of the sessions qualify for FAA Wings cards. The dates are 4/30-5/2/04 (Friday-Sunday) - it's a lot of fun, and a great chance for pilots from all over to mingle and share aviation stories, ideas, etc. The announcement below contains most of the crucial information, and you can get the rest from the website (www.smxgig.org). If you have any questions at all, just let me know, and thanks!
~~Cory Emberson
KHWD
>>> NOTICE TO AIRMEN! <<<
Announcing the Sixteenth Annual SMXgig
to be held on April 30 - May 2, 2004
at the Radisson on the Santa Maria (CA) Airport (aka SMX)
www.smxgig.org
SMXgig will be April 30 - May 2, 2004, at the Santa Maria Radisson. This year,
our featured speaker after Friday night's dinner will be Rod Machado!
"MACH 2 WITH MACHADO" is the byline Rod Machado has earned for his rapid fire delivery
at his lively safety seminars and keynote speeches. His programs are information-packed,
energetic, and humorous. He has spoken in all fifty of the
United States and in Europe sharing his fresh approach to aviation education.
If you can make it, please do. It's going to be pretty special. More information and the announcement/ registration info is available at www.smxgig.org You may also contact me by email at: cory(at)smxgig.org.
All technical sessions will be held in the Enterprise Ballroom at the SMX Radisson.
Each session will last about an hour. We schedule four tech sessions on Saturday
morning, and four on Sunday morning. Most of the speakers are set (I'm
still firming up a couple of slots - I'm working on a session about Experimentals):
MIKE BUSCH - The Art and Science of Troubleshooting
Your A frequently, that person is you. That's particularly true of problems that
occur only in-flight and/or are intermittent. This session offers methodology
for troubleshooting aimed at aircraft owners who aren't A&Ps.
ED WILLIAMS - GPS - How It Works, and How to Work It
Ed is a nuclear physicist working at Lawrence Livermore Labs. Ed does a
remarkable job of making physics phun!
BRENT BLUE, M.D. - Pilot Medicals: How to Avoid Problems with the FAA
Brent is an AME Advocate, who specializes in helping the tough cases renew their
medicals. He's a former member of EAA's medical advisory committee.
DOUG RITTER - Equipping Yourself To Survive - Personal Survival Gear for Pilots
Doug is a survival evangelist, personally driven to help pilots live through whatever comes next. www.equipped.org
PAUL MILLNER - The Future of Avgas
Paul works with ChevronTexaco, and is right in the middle of the industry developments
regarding our fuel of choice.
MARY DUFFY & UWE LEMKE - Flying in Europe
Mary and Uwe are a Scot and a German who live in the San Francisco Bay Area, but
return "home" often.
As always, each qualifying session will get you a WINGS Safety Session card.
Our Saturday evening event should be a delicious one! At 5:45 p.m., the BFUB (Big Fat Ugly Bus) will arrive at the Santa Maria Radisson to bring us to the Far Western Tavern for dinner in beautiful Guadalupe (www.farwesterntavern.com).
DOLLARS AND CENTS
Just as in previous years, there will be one flat all-encompassing "gig" fee that
covers all events that involve significant out-of-pocket costs for the organizers.
The fee is $160 per person, and will cover:
- Friday afternoon welcome party
- Friday evening dinner banquet
- Saturday and Sunday tech sessions
- Saturday afternoon lunch
- Saturday evening dinner at the Far Western Tavern in Guadalupe
- Meeting rooms and coffee service at the Santa Maria Radisson
- Transportation to (and from) the Far Western Tavern
Lodging at the SMX Radisson will cost $89.00/night for either a single or double
room, which is far below the regular hotel room rate. Be sure you check in as
a SMXgig attendee and get the special rate. We have our definitive preference
listed with the hotel for rampside rooms - early registration can only help,
but of course, the rampside rooms are subject to availability depending on how
many existing guests are in those rooms.
You do not need to register with the hotel - just give me your preferences, and
I will take care of the reservations.
Important: This year, our final rooming lists are due to the hotel on April 11,
2004 (the even of Sun 'n Fun), which will guarantee space and the group rate.
The hotel will accept additional room reservations after that, on a space- and
rate-available basis. They will try their best to accommodate us after that
date, but the hotel is already sold out for the weekend.
The website (www.smxgig.org) has detailed information about the schedule, meals, hotel accommodations, and online registration. If you'd like your own announcement/registration emailed to you, or have any other questions, just let me know. (cory(at)smxgig.org or bootless(at)earthlink.net ).
Thanks, and see you there!
best, Cory Emberson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
What?
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
>
> In a message dated 3/28/2004 9:07:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
KAMALA(at)msn.com
> writes:
> ALL BUYERS AND SELLERS SHOULD CHECK THIS OUT
> I think there may have been a little "creative publishing" going on with
my
> propeller STC recently as well. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Hindmarsh" <todd(at)hindmarsh.us> |
What is your tail number?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON
CHEVAILLIER
Subject: Commander-List:
I DO KNOW IF MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE EVER MADE IT TO THE GROUP SO I AM GOING OUT
ONE MORE TRY. I HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED A 680. IN GETTING THE ANNUAL WE
DISCOVERED THAT THE WINGLETS WERE BOGUS!!! SO ALL OUT THERE BE AWARE THAT
THIS RENDERS THE AIR CRAFT UNAIRWORTHY. ALL BUYERS AND SELLERS SHOULD CHECK
THIS OUT. THE STC HELD BY COMMANDER AERO IS THE ONLY ONE CERTIFIED FOR OUR
PLANES. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE CALL ME.MASON CHEVAILLIER
817-877-4977 OFC OR 817-517-4977 MOB.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680E Taxies Down Under |
Richard,
YAAAHHHOOOOOO! Congrats! When the old girl gets flying, you have to make
sure you send pictures to all of us who can't make it Down Under for her
maiden voyage!
/John (N353CC)
----- Original Message -----
From: <RnJThompson(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Re: 680E Taxies Down Under
>
> Hi All
>
> For those that are interested. My 680E taxied under its own power for the
> fist time in 11 years. A milestone has been reached and the end is now in
sight
> after 3.5 years of hard work. I hope to have the old girl flyable in the
next
> few months. I still have to do the interior,outboard tanks and paint. AND
HEAPS
> OF PAPERWORK TO GET THE CofA BACK (about 7500 pounds ).
>
> Thanks to all who have helped with parts, advice and support.
> Jim, Morris, TCAC,TCFG etc.
>
> Regards
> Richard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/28/2004 6:56:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bowing74(at)earthlink.net writes:
What?
People photo copying My STC and selling, or giving it to owners when they buy
propellers from them. I think it has already happened once and may be about
to happen again?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 680E Taxies Down Under |
In a message dated 3/28/2004 8:24:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
/John (N353CC)
HI JOHN.
Haven't heard from you in a while. How is life!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRP <mrp37(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680E Taxies Down Under |
Hey Richard!
Congratulations!!! I can only imagine what that feels like. Hope to see you,
and your wife again at the next fly-in.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Campbell" <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
| Subject: | re: Taxis down under |
Good on ya' cobber!
It's a great feeling to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Bruce Campbell
N4186B ( Twin commander 520 )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | "I love the smell of.....AvGas in the morning" |
Capt. Jimbob,
Thanks for the "hello" note.
Things are good! 353CC is running like a fine swiss watch right now, just
the usual grumbles a little exhaust deflection on top of the
nacelle that needs some attention (don't want to warp any metal), a little
water leaking into the cabin when it rains, but other than that, PERFECT!
I did have an adventure going to Scottsdale, AZ a couple of weeks ago with a
friend though. The 2 of us flew down in ideal conditions and had an
uneventful perfect flight; then, that evening, we both got REALLY sick in
Scottsdale (NOT food poisoning). We were both bedridden for 14 hours or so;
my friend was throwing up and I got Monetzuma's Revenge in a big way. Turns
out my left 3-in-1 gauge had sprung a minor leak (which I spotted the next
day, having become suspicious of our symptoms), dripping fuel into the cabin
for the 3-hour flight, which we both breathed without noticing. Scary--not
enough leakage for us to smell, especially with O2 on, but plenty enough to
make us sick.
The good news was that Executive Aviation Services at SDL called in a
mechanic on Saturday, when their maintenance dept. is normally closed, to
fix my airplane. It only took a couple of hours to remove/pressure
test/reinstall (with some teflon tape on the fittings) the 3-in-1, they had
GREAT labor rates (<$300 for the whole fix, which took about 6 man-hours)
and to top it off, they waived the hangar/overnight fees for the weekend I
was there! In addition, they fixed a couple of other minor squawks on their
own, exhibiting high standards of service, at no fee. John Phoenix, the
(new) owner of EAS, is a real friend to Commander owners. I recommend
paying a visit when in Scottsdale.
Next step is new paint. I've saved up the $$, it's just a matter of finding
a quality paint shop with time on their schedule. Any suggestions? Who
painted the Grand Renegade???? Speaking of which, is her singed wing healing
nicely?
Hope all's well in the Northwest!
/John
PS: The scariest issue from that trip is, what if I was alone? How much fuel
vapor does it take to incapacitate a single pilot? What would have happened
then? We noticed that we got sick at different rates with different
symptoms. I'll be VERY glad when there's an approved solution for
transducer-based gauges that get fuel & oil out of the cockpit for good.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: 680E Taxies Down Under
>
> In a message dated 3/28/2004 8:24:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
> /John (N353CC)
> HI JOHN.
>
> Haven't heard from you in a while. How is life!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 680E Taxies Down Under |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Mr "T",
Congratulations on a fantastic milestone.
We are proud of your efforts here in OzCommanderland.
Well done!!
Cheers
Russell
On 29/3/04 7:59 AM, "RnJThompson(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> For those that are interested. My 680E taxied under its own power for the
> fist time in 11 years. A milestone has been reached and the end is now in
> sight
> after 3.5 years of hard work. I hope to have the old girl flyable in the next
> few months. I still have to do the interior,outboard tanks and paint. AND
> HEAPS
> OF PAPERWORK TO GET THE CofA BACK (about 7500 pounds ).
>
> Thanks to all who have helped with parts, advice and support.
> Jim, Morris, TCAC,TCFG etc.
>
> Regards
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "I love the smell of.....AvGas in the morning" |
try texas aero color in brady, tx.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum<mailto:john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:48 AM
Subject: Commander-List: "I love the smell of.....AvGas in the morning"
Capt. Jimbob,
Thanks for the "hello" note.
Things are good! 353CC is running like a fine swiss watch right now, just
the usual grumbles a little exhaust deflection on top of the
nacelle that needs some attention (don't want to warp any metal), a little
water leaking into the cabin when it rains, but other than that, PERFECT!
I did have an adventure going to Scottsdale, AZ a couple of weeks ago with a
friend though. The 2 of us flew down in ideal conditions and had an
uneventful perfect flight; then, that evening, we both got REALLY sick in
Scottsdale (NOT food poisoning). We were both bedridden for 14 hours or so;
my friend was throwing up and I got Monetzuma's Revenge in a big way. Turns
out my left 3-in-1 gauge had sprung a minor leak (which I spotted the next
day, having become suspicious of our symptoms), dripping fuel into the cabin
for the 3-hour flight, which we both breathed without noticing. Scary--not
enough leakage for us to smell, especially with O2 on, but plenty enough to
make us sick.
The good news was that Executive Aviation Services at SDL called in a
mechanic on Saturday, when their maintenance dept. is normally closed, to
fix my airplane. It only took a couple of hours to remove/pressure
test/reinstall (with some teflon tape on the fittings) the 3-in-1, they had
GREAT labor rates (<$300 for the whole fix, which took about 6 man-hours)
and to top it off, they waived the hangar/overnight fees for the weekend I
was there! In addition, they fixed a couple of other minor squawks on their
own, exhibiting high standards of service, at no fee. John Phoenix, the
(new) owner of EAS, is a real friend to Commander owners. I recommend
paying a visit when in Scottsdale.
Next step is new paint. I've saved up the $$, it's just a matter of finding
a quality paint shop with time on their schedule. Any suggestions? Who
painted the Grand Renegade???? Speaking of which, is her singed wing healing
nicely?
Hope all's well in the Northwest!
/John
PS: The scariest issue from that trip is, what if I was alone? How much fuel
vapor does it take to incapacitate a single pilot? What would have happened
then? We noticed that we got sick at different rates with different
symptoms. I'll be VERY glad when there's an approved solution for
transducer-based gauges that get fuel & oil out of the cockpit for good.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>>
To: >
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: 680E Taxies Down Under
>
> In a message dated 3/28/2004 8:24:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
> /John (N353CC)
> HI JOHN.
>
> Haven't heard from you in a while. How is life!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
n2001M
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Hindmarsh<mailto:todd(at)hindmarsh.us>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:03 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
What is your tail number?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON
CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List:
I DO KNOW IF MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE EVER MADE IT TO THE GROUP SO I AM GOING OUT
ONE MORE TRY. I HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED A 680. IN GETTING THE ANNUAL WE
DISCOVERED THAT THE WINGLETS WERE BOGUS!!! SO ALL OUT THERE BE AWARE THAT
THIS RENDERS THE AIR CRAFT UNAIRWORTHY. ALL BUYERS AND SELLERS SHOULD CHECK
THIS OUT. THE STC HELD BY COMMANDER AERO IS THE ONLY ONE CERTIFIED FOR OUR
PLANES. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE CALL ME.MASON CHEVAILLIER
817-877-4977 OFC OR 817-517-4977 MOB.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "I love the smell of.....AvGas in the morning" |
Thanks Mason, I'll add them to my list!
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "I love the smell of.....AvGas in the morning"
>
> try texas aero color in brady, tx.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Vormbaum<mailto:john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:48 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: "I love the smell of.....AvGas in the morning"
>
>
>
>
> Capt. Jimbob,
>
> Thanks for the "hello" note.
>
> Things are good! 353CC is running like a fine swiss watch right now,
just
> the usual grumbles a little exhaust deflection on top of the
> nacelle that needs some attention (don't want to warp any metal), a
little
> water leaking into the cabin when it rains, but other than that,
PERFECT!
>
> I did have an adventure going to Scottsdale, AZ a couple of weeks ago
with a
> friend though. The 2 of us flew down in ideal conditions and had an
> uneventful perfect flight; then, that evening, we both got REALLY sick
in
> Scottsdale (NOT food poisoning). We were both bedridden for 14 hours or
so;
> my friend was throwing up and I got Monetzuma's Revenge in a big way.
Turns
> out my left 3-in-1 gauge had sprung a minor leak (which I spotted the
next
> day, having become suspicious of our symptoms), dripping fuel into the
cabin
> for the 3-hour flight, which we both breathed without noticing.
Scary--not
> enough leakage for us to smell, especially with O2 on, but plenty enough
to
> make us sick.
>
> The good news was that Executive Aviation Services at SDL called in a
> mechanic on Saturday, when their maintenance dept. is normally closed,
to
> fix my airplane. It only took a couple of hours to remove/pressure
> test/reinstall (with some teflon tape on the fittings) the 3-in-1, they
had
> GREAT labor rates (<$300 for the whole fix, which took about 6
man-hours)
> and to top it off, they waived the hangar/overnight fees for the weekend
I
> was there! In addition, they fixed a couple of other minor squawks on
their
> own, exhibiting high standards of service, at no fee. John Phoenix, the
> (new) owner of EAS, is a real friend to Commander owners. I recommend
> paying a visit when in Scottsdale.
>
> Next step is new paint. I've saved up the $$, it's just a matter of
finding
> a quality paint shop with time on their schedule. Any suggestions? Who
> painted the Grand Renegade???? Speaking of which, is her singed wing
healing
> nicely?
>
> Hope all's well in the Northwest!
>
> /John
>
> PS: The scariest issue from that trip is, what if I was alone? How much
fuel
> vapor does it take to incapacitate a single pilot? What would have
happened
> then? We noticed that we got sick at different rates with different
> symptoms. I'll be VERY glad when there's an approved solution for
> transducer-based gauges that get fuel & oil out of the cockpit for
good.....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>>
> To: >
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: 680E Taxies Down Under
>
>
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 3/28/2004 8:24:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
> > /John (N353CC)
> > HI JOHN.
> >
> > Haven't heard from you in a while. How is life!! jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
Fellow Commander Drivers,
Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best treatment for wing and tail
boots to prevent sun damage?
Thanx!
Moe
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
A hanger?
Sorry I couldn't resist Moe.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <MOEMILLS(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: DEICE BOOTS
>
> Fellow Commander Drivers,
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best treatment for wing and tail
> boots to prevent sun damage?
>
> Thanx!
>
> Moe
> N680RR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 3/29/2004 1:14:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
MOEMILLS(at)aol.com writes:
Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best treatment for wing and tail
boots to prevent sun damage?
For several years my Duke was parked outside and I used Mequiers carnuba past
wax. Two applications, twice each year. They looked great and it helped to
shed ice. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
How about if I just Duct Tape them for the summer months?
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/30/04 |
BILLBO, IS YOUR A/C RUNNING? ARE YOU GOING TO SUN AND FUN? ANYONE ELSE? I PLAN
TO BE THERE FRIDAY AND SUNDAY. WILL PARK IN THE WEST 40 ABOUT 100 MILES FROM
THE SHOW. AL HOFFMAN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jlyle <jlyle(at)thomsonaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/30/04 |
To all fellow Commander pilots flying to Sun and Fun.
In addition to flying my AC520, I operate the Thomson, Georgia Airport (HQU).
All Commander aircraft receive 50 cents a gallon discount off posted prices everday
on Full Service 100LL and Jet-A.
Just notify the staff you are a member of TCFG for your discount.
We also offer self service for even more savings.
I can't go to Sun and Fun this year. Therefore, if you need a fuel stop come on
by and say hello and I'll show you one of the best 520's in the world while they
top your Commander
James Lyle
N11L
>
>
> BILLBO, IS YOUR A/C RUNNING? ARE YOU GOING TO SUN AND FUN? ANYONE ELSE? I
PLAN TO BE THERE FRIDAY AND SUNDAY. WILL PARK IN THE WEST 40 ABOUT 100 MILES
FROM THE SHOW. AL HOFFMAN
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: de ice boots |
I use BF Goodrich Age Master. If you subscribe to the theory that the
nastier the chemical, the better it works then this stuff is for you. It's
flammable, turns everything it touches dark red (especially your skin), and
stinks like hell. But if you're a de ice boot, it's like Oil of Olay. I
can't say I've noticed a big difference but then again my airplane is
hangered. At $80/quart, it's not cheap either. This stuff doesn't do
anything to make the boot look better or shed ice better, it just conditions
the rubber. For looks and ice shedding, you need BF Goodrich shinemaster and
ICEX, respectively. I can say that ICEX really works well. This stuff is
absurdly expensive at $100/16 oz bottle, but it really works. You almost
don't need to cycle the boots with ICEX on them. A little goes a long way
and I've been using the same 16 oz bottle since 2000 with plenty left.
Has anyone tried Rapco's Bootsaver Deice boot repair kit? Does it work?
Scott
N222LE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brock Lorber - VegasFC" <blorber(at)vegasfc.com> |
Moe:
I'm currently using the PBS Boot Prep and Sealer. The Prep cleans off all
the old wax and oxidized rubber, then the Sealer puts a shiny clear-coat on
them. I've had good luck (I'm ice-averse) but a charter-operator friend
tried it on his 414 and found he had to re-apply the sealer too often (he's
ice-attracted and cycles his boots alot).
The good news is, the two-part kit is only $60 through Spruce. You can put
Icex on top of the sealer if you suspect you'll be catching a lot of ice on
a trip, but then you get Icex streaming on the wings if you fly through
rain.
Brock Lorber
400CH
>
> Fellow Commander Drivers,
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best treatment for wing and tail
> boots to prevent sun damage?
>
> Thanx!
>
> Moe
> N680RR
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
Dear Brock and other respondents to my quiery about boot protection,
Thanks for the comments. I purchased Tri-Guard and Prep Cleaner from The
Proper Aircraft, and applied it last week. The boots look really great, however
the Tri-Guard looks a lot like Armour-All, which seems to have killed
everything that I have put it on (X wife's Eldo padded top, X wife's car dash,
and
Skymaster hot prop rubber). I have used BFG Age Master also. It is hard to use!
Best regards,
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wilcox transponder |
Folks,
I think this came up a while back, but I forgot. Any suggestions as to who
could repair my back up transponder: Wilcox 1014A.
Thanx!
Moe N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wilcox transponder |
In a message dated 04/13/04 17:28:54 Pacific Daylight Time, MOEMILLS(at)aol.com
writes:
> I think this came up a while back, but I forgot. Any suggestions as to who
>
> could repair my back up transponder: Wilcox 1014A.
Moe,
I think I replied a while back, but I forgot. Not good news ....
Back in the days I was flying Milt's old plane -- N414C -- I needed to get
the Wilcox repaired. The shop in Kansas City was able to cobble it together
but told me it was the last time. That was in 1996.
If I'm not mistaken, it uses a vacuum tube in the power supply and that's
what's impossible to find.
Symptoms of it going bad was the transponder spraying out random squawk codes
that drove ATC nuts.
Does this sound like what your Wilcox is doing?
If so, it may be time to use it for a bookend.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wilcox transponder |
Dear Wing Commander Gordon,
The Wilcox has been my second transponder for some time now, and yes, it does
change codes on accession by its self.
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wilcox transponder |
Moe,
If it needs a tube I have a small collection. Let me know the number and
I'll check.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Date: 4/14/2004 1:27:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Wilcox transponder
>
>
> In a message dated 04/13/04 17:28:54 Pacific Daylight Time,
MOEMILLS(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
> > I think this came up a while back, but I forgot. Any suggestions as to
who
> >
> > could repair my back up transponder: Wilcox 1014A.
>
> Moe,
>
> I think I replied a while back, but I forgot. Not good news ....
>
> Back in the days I was flying Milt's old plane -- N414C -- I needed to
get
> the Wilcox repaired. The shop in Kansas City was able to cobble it
together
> but told me it was the last time. That was in 1996.
>
> If I'm not mistaken, it uses a vacuum tube in the power supply and that's
> what's impossible to find.
>
> Symptoms of it going bad was the transponder spraying out random squawk
codes
> that drove ATC nuts.
>
> Does this sound like what your Wilcox is doing?
>
> If so, it may be time to use it for a bookend.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wilcox transponder |
Moe,
Toss the thing out. I have finally worked out that these old pieces of junk
are more trouble than they are worth. As avionics need continuois work done I
replace with new.
I have fitted Garmins GTX327 and GTX 320 to all my planes. They are not
expensive and so far I am impressed. ATC even talk to me now.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
Hi All
I have one 0 time 680 prop. It is overhauled with full sized blades. Will
supply with all the documentation. It has a 250 hr hub.
I have a comlpete hub assy (500 hr), Clamps etc and one good blade.
Prop will be shipped stripped, as it is cheaper and safer.
I have gone to the Queen Air props, so have no need for the above.
Anyone interested give me a shout.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
As a matter of interest, and to feed our need for information, why would one
switch to Queen Air props? If it's good, why wouldn't we all switch?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <RnJThompson(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Props
>
> Hi All
>
> I have one 0 time 680 prop. It is overhauled with full sized blades. Will
> supply with all the documentation. It has a 250 hr hub.
>
> I have a comlpete hub assy (500 hr), Clamps etc and one good blade.
>
> Prop will be shipped stripped, as it is cheaper and safer.
>
> I have gone to the Queen Air props, so have no need for the above.
>
> Anyone interested give me a shout.
>
> Regards
> Richard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/14/2004 6:07:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
As a matter of interest, and to feed our need for information, why would one
switch to Queen Air props? If it's good, why wouldn't we all switch?
Nico
Allow me to answer that. It cost about 20K per propeller to get AD compliant
original 680 propellers. The "Queen Air" props have no AD and I am told
perform better than the originals. A pair of fresh overhauled QA props, with the
STC will cost about 12K total, not each, total. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
After what seems a lifetime, triple 2 is flying again. I landed back
at the home drome, from Abbotsford Canada last night at about 6 pm. It is
running great. It now has a 102 hr, GSO480 on the left side. I also have a 525
hr engine in my shop awaiting installation. I plan to fly the right engine a
while before installing the new one. The next project will be the
installation of a pair of new oil tanks and then new brake discs & linings then
a new
Becker radio and intercom.
It is so good to have her back!!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
I had a Search & Rescue exercise in Abbotsford last Saturday and triple 2
did not look like it had moved from the previous month, you must do fast
work.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: BACK IN THE AIR
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> After what seems a lifetime, triple 2 is flying again. I landed
back
> at the home drome, from Abbotsford Canada last night at about 6 pm. It is
> running great. It now has a 102 hr, GSO480 on the left side. I also have
a 525
> hr engine in my shop awaiting installation. I plan to fly the right
engine a
> while before installing the new one. The next project will be the
> installation of a pair of new oil tanks and then new brake discs & linings
then a new
> Becker radio and intercom.
> It is so good to have her back!!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
Well done JB. It is great to hear that 222 has returned home. You never know
what you will pick in foreign countries.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
JB,
Are you replacing the oil tanks because of a leak? Are they the same on a
680 like yours as they are on a 680F(p)? How much time is involved in changing
them? N680RR is seeping a little.
Best regards,
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Jim,
Congratulations old chap!
Great to read that two two two is "turning avgas into noise" again.
A special day in Commanderland.
Cheers
Russell
On 15/4/04 1:16 PM, "YOURTCFG(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> After what seems a lifetime, triple 2 is flying again. I landed back
> at the home drome, from Abbotsford Canada last night at about 6 pm. It is
> running great. It now has a 102 hr, GSO480 on the left side. I also have a
> 525
> hr engine in my shop awaiting installation. I plan to fly the right engine a
> while before installing the new one. The next project will be the
> installation of a pair of new oil tanks and then new brake discs & linings
> then a new
> Becker radio and intercom.
> It is so good to have her back!!! jb
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
I'll second that..!!! Ain't that sound great...glad you're back in the air
with 222.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Legg" <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: BACK IN THE AIR
>
> G'day Jim,
>
> Congratulations old chap!
>
> Great to read that two two two is "turning avgas into noise" again.
>
> A special day in Commanderland.
>
> Cheers
>
> Russell
>
>
> On 15/4/04 1:16 PM, "YOURTCFG(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> >
> > HI KIDS.
> >
> > After what seems a lifetime, triple 2 is flying again. I landed
back
> > at the home drome, from Abbotsford Canada last night at about 6 pm. It
is
> > running great. It now has a 102 hr, GSO480 on the left side. I also
have a
> > 525
> > hr engine in my shop awaiting installation. I plan to fly the right
engine a
> > while before installing the new one. The next project will be the
> > installation of a pair of new oil tanks and then new brake discs &
linings
> > then a new
> > Becker radio and intercom.
> > It is so good to have her back!!! jb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
In a message dated 4/15/2004 4:20:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
RnJThompson(at)aol.com writes:
what you will pick in foreign countries.
AMEN!! Actually all the Canadians were more than helpful and a true joy to
work with. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
In a message dated 4/15/2004 6:09:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
MOEMILLS(at)aol.com writes:
Are you replacing the oil tanks because of a leak? Are they the same on a
680 like yours as they are on a 680F(p)? How much time is involved in
changing
them? N680RR is seeping a little.
Yes, they leak(dang it) and yes they are the same as your airplane. I have
never done a set but am told it is a very miserable job. I should have them
done in a couple of weeks, I let you know how they go. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
In a message dated 4/15/2004 7:01:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
I'll second that..!!! Ain't that sound great...glad you're back in the air
with 222.
Thank you, thank you. It is GGGGGGRRRRREAT!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
Safe flying, Jim. I can hear the unique drone.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Legg" <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: BACK IN THE AIR
>
> G'day Jim,
>
> Congratulations old chap!
>
> Great to read that two two two is "turning avgas into noise" again.
>
> A special day in Commanderland.
>
> Cheers
>
> Russell
>
>
> On 15/4/04 1:16 PM, "YOURTCFG(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> >
> > HI KIDS.
> >
> > After what seems a lifetime, triple 2 is flying again. I landed
back
> > at the home drome, from Abbotsford Canada last night at about 6 pm. It
is
> > running great. It now has a 102 hr, GSO480 on the left side. I also
have a
> > 525
> > hr engine in my shop awaiting installation. I plan to fly the right
engine a
> > while before installing the new one. The next project will be the
> > installation of a pair of new oil tanks and then new brake discs &
linings
> > then a new
> > Becker radio and intercom.
> > It is so good to have her back!!! jb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
It is nice to have the List showing some signs of life again.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: BACK IN THE AIR
>
> In a message dated 4/15/2004 4:20:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> RnJThompson(at)aol.com writes:
> what you will pick in foreign countries.
> AMEN!! Actually all the Canadians were more than helpful and a true joy
to
> work with. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hasler" <jhasler(at)gte.net> |
Hello =96
My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored in
Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be based
in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack performance
figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I think
Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
themselves.
Thanks
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
Welcome Jim!
bilbo
1962 500A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hasler" <jhasler(at)gte.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Hello
>
> Hello =96
>
> My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
> bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored in
> Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be based
> in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
> slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack performance
> figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I think
> Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
> thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
> forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
> themselves.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Another Jim on board. Welcome and we hope that you would be very happy with
your commander. Some background, perhaps, Jim? What was your Gadberry
experience like?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hasler" <jhasler(at)gte.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Hello
>
> Hello =96
>
> My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
> bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored in
> Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be based
> in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
> slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack performance
> figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I think
> Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
> thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
> forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
> themselves.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hasler" <jhasler(at)gte.net> |
Gary was very up front about everything and honest in all of his
dealings with me.
I reviewed your list and understand that there are some problems between
members and Gary.
Until burnt, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
Thanks for the Hello.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hello
Another Jim on board. Welcome and we hope that you would be very happy
with
your commander. Some background, perhaps, Jim? What was your Gadberry
experience like?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hasler" <jhasler(at)gte.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Hello
>
> Hello =96
>
> My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
> bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored
in
> Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be
based
> in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
> slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack
performance
> figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I
think
> Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
> thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
> forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
> themselves.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
>
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
JIM, WELCOME ABOARD. MASON CHEVAILLIER 2001M
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Hasler<mailto:jhasler(at)gte.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Hello
Hello 96
My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
bought Gary Gadberry92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored in
Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be based
in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack performance
figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I think
Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
themselves.
Thanks
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com |
I have a Wilcox transponder that was removed from my prior 500A.
It was working when replaced.
Please advise who needs it....
Gary Tillman, Pres.
Av. Ins. Brokers of NA
www.flysafeinsurance.com
800-228-4283
706-291-4077 office
706-238-1143 cell
706-232-3081 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Loschiavo" <vince320(at)comcast.net> |
For Jim, and all,
Hi Just wanted to say hello to all. We are currently operating a Panther
colemill conversion, and the owner is looking for something else.....Guess
what we recommended??? We are looking at the 685.....Any comments on this
one?
Vince320
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hello
>
> Welcome Jim!
>
> bilbo
> 1962 500A
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Hasler" <jhasler(at)gte.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Hello
>
>
> >
> > Hello =96
> >
> > My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
> > bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored
in
> > Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be based
> > in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
> > slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack performance
> > figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I think
> > Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
> > thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
> > forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
> > themselves.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
There were complaints and some harsh words, Jim, but that was a while ago.
We celebrate your good experience with Gary because we don't want to see a
Commander vendor go south in any way.
Thanks for the update.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hasler" <jhasler(at)gte.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hello
>
> Gary was very up front about everything and honest in all of his
> dealings with me.
>
> I reviewed your list and understand that there are some problems between
> members and Gary.
>
> Until burnt, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
> Thanks for the Hello.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hello
>
>
>
> Another Jim on board. Welcome and we hope that you would be very happy
> with
> your commander. Some background, perhaps, Jim? What was your Gadberry
> experience like?
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Hasler" <jhasler(at)gte.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Hello
>
>
> >
> > Hello =96
> >
> > My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
> > bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored
> in
> > Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be
> based
> > in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
> > slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack
> performance
> > figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I
> think
> > Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
> > thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
> > forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
> > themselves.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com> |
Jim:
Congratulations and welcome.
I own a 1962 500A [converted by Colemill in '73] and would be happy to
forward you a copy of my AFM Supplement that was issued by Colemill at
the time of the conversion. Just send me an email with your address. My
contact info is at the bottom of the page for my 500A:
http://www.kucheck.net/Aircraft/N811D.html
Also, I am happy to announce to the group that 11D is, after about 3
months of downtime, once again flying with some fresh zero-time OHs.
The new engines are very smooth and everything seems to be in order.
Nice to be airborne again!
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hasler [mailto:jhasler(at)gte.net]
Subject: Commander-List: Hello
Hello =96
My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored
in
Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be based
in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack performance
figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I think
Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
themselves.
Thanks
Jim
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 04/15/04 15:08:54 Pacific Daylight Time,
vince320(at)comcast.net writes:
> We are looking at the 685.....Any comments on this one?
>
Vince,
If we keep the comparisons to the cabin class, pressurized, piston-twin, the
Commander 685 is superb and under-valued.
Compared to a Duke, Cessna 421, P-Navajo and what ever else I'm forgetting,
the Commander has superior systems, handling and load carrying without center
of gravity problems.
What it is not: The AC-685 does not share the rest of the line's short field
reputation. It does not climb well at high weights in high temperatures. It
is not cheap to operate -- but neither are the other aircraft in its class.
If you operate out of a short runway, you'll have to limit fuel load (at 322
gallons, you probably don't need full fuel for most trips) to match the runway
limitation.
What it is: I found it to be the quietest piston twin I've ever flown. It's
roomy, rangy and a joy to fly. If you're familiar with the Commander line,
you'll appreciate the Turbo Commander airframe and systems (and Known Ice
certification) and flight manual data, which is the most comprehensive of all the
piston Commanders.
I'd have to search pretty deep through all my junk, but somewhere I have
trend monitors from the AC-685 I operated.
My trip profiles didn't put me much higher than the mid-teens and I ran at
62-65% power. If I recall, I averaged 190 knots with a fuel flow of 45 gph,
running 100 degrees rich on the TIT. Flight plan block fuel at 50 gph. I can
dig up the trends, if you need.
Altough the engines are "the same as the Cessna 421" -- as in GTSIO 540 -- it
is not exactly the same and you'll need a mechanic that knows the difference.
The Bendix fuel injection/fuel metering system seems to be the biggest
difference and a CE-421 mechanic will not have the proper knowledge without doing
a
bit of learning.
We have a few AC-685 owners on this email net, I hope they weigh in.
What else do you want to know?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Al,
Great to read that you are back in the skies!
Make sure you get 11D along to Kansas City Downtown in September...it is a
really cool airport flanked by the river. I was last there during the
almighty '93 floods.
Congratulations.
Cheers
Russell
On 16/4/04 2:51 PM, "Alan Kucheck" wrote:
>
>
> Jim:
>
> Congratulations and welcome.
>
> I own a 1962 500A [converted by Colemill in '73] and would be happy to
> forward you a copy of my AFM Supplement that was issued by Colemill at
> the time of the conversion. Just send me an email with your address. My
> contact info is at the bottom of the page for my 500A:
>
> http://www.kucheck.net/Aircraft/N811D.html
>
> Also, I am happy to announce to the group that 11D is, after about 3
> months of downtime, once again flying with some fresh zero-time OHs.
> The new engines are very smooth and everything seems to be in order.
> Nice to be airborne again!
>
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Hasler [mailto:jhasler(at)gte.net]
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Hello
>
>
> Hello =96
>
> My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
> bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored
> in
> Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be based
> in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
> slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack performance
> figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I think
> Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
> thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
> forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
> themselves.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BACK IN THE AIR |
Both my tanks appeared to be leaking, after several years when the nacelles
were off I found that the bottom bolts were loose. Retorqued, safety wired
and the leaks stopped. Something to look at.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Date: 4/15/2004 11:02:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: BACK IN THE AIR
>
>
> In a message dated 4/15/2004 6:09:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> MOEMILLS(at)aol.com writes:
>
> Are you replacing the oil tanks because of a leak? Are they the same on
a
> 680 like yours as they are on a 680F(p)? How much time is involved in
> changing
> them? N680RR is seeping a little.
> Yes, they leak(dang it) and yes they are the same as your airplane. I
have
> never done a set but am told it is a very miserable job. I should have
them
> done in a couple of weeks, I let you know how they go. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vince320(at)comcast.net |
Thank you very much for the info, I'll be forwarding this info on to the chief
who will be pitching the aircraft to the boss...
I'm glad that I've found knowledgable on the aircraft..
Thanks again.
Vince320
>
> In a message dated 04/15/04 15:08:54 Pacific Daylight Time,
> vince320(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> > We are looking at the 685.....Any comments on this one?
> >
> Vince,
>
> If we keep the comparisons to the cabin class, pressurized, piston-twin, the
> Commander 685 is superb and under-valued.
>
> Compared to a Duke, Cessna 421, P-Navajo and what ever else I'm forgetting,
> the Commander has superior systems, handling and load carrying without center
> of gravity problems.
>
> What it is not: The AC-685 does not share the rest of the line's short field
> reputation. It does not climb well at high weights in high temperatures. It
> is not cheap to operate -- but neither are the other aircraft in its class.
>
> If you operate out of a short runway, you'll have to limit fuel load (at 322
> gallons, you probably don't need full fuel for most trips) to match the runway
> limitation.
>
> What it is: I found it to be the quietest piston twin I've ever flown. It's
> roomy, rangy and a joy to fly. If you're familiar with the Commander line,
> you'll appreciate the Turbo Commander airframe and systems (and Known Ice
> certification) and flight manual data, which is the most comprehensive of all
> the
> piston Commanders.
>
> I'd have to search pretty deep through all my junk, but somewhere I have
> trend monitors from the AC-685 I operated.
>
> My trip profiles didn't put me much higher than the mid-teens and I ran at
> 62-65% power. If I recall, I averaged 190 knots with a fuel flow of 45 gph,
> running 100 degrees rich on the TIT. Flight plan block fuel at 50 gph. I can
> dig up the trends, if you need.
>
> Altough the engines are "the same as the Cessna 421" -- as in GTSIO 540 -- it
> is not exactly the same and you'll need a mechanic that knows the difference.
> The Bendix fuel injection/fuel metering system seems to be the biggest
> difference and a CE-421 mechanic will not have the proper knowledge without
> doing a
> bit of learning.
>
> We have a few AC-685 owners on this email net, I hope they weigh in.
>
> What else do you want to know?
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Alan,
I have a 500A with the I-O470s that I would like to some day convert. Could
I get you to add me to the email list when you send the Colemill
information.
Thanks
Jim Addington
N444BD
jtaddington(at)charter.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
Kucheck
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hello
Jim:
Congratulations and welcome.
I own a 1962 500A [converted by Colemill in '73] and would be happy to
forward you a copy of my AFM Supplement that was issued by Colemill at
the time of the conversion. Just send me an email with your address. My
contact info is at the bottom of the page for my 500A:
http://www.kucheck.net/Aircraft/N811D.html
Also, I am happy to announce to the group that 11D is, after about 3
months of downtime, once again flying with some fresh zero-time OHs.
The new engines are very smooth and everything seems to be in order.
Nice to be airborne again!
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hasler [mailto:jhasler(at)gte.net]
Subject: Commander-List: Hello
Hello =96
My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored
in
Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be based
in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack performance
figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I think
Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
themselves.
Thanks
Jim
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com> |
Good to hear from you, Russell!
Planning on Kansas City. Only roadblock at this time is stupid stuff
like work. ;>( But I'm working on it.
I am planning on taking 11D on kind of a long cross country, about three
weeks, starting around July 24th or so. Furthest destination is
Rochester NY, with planned stops in Santa Fe, Chicago (PWK) outbound;
Montgomery AL, New Orleans, Austin on the return. If anyone knows of
some great little airport on this approximate route that I really
shouldn't miss, don't be shy.
ak
-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Legg [mailto:rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au]
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hello
G'day Al,
Great to read that you are back in the skies!
Make sure you get 11D along to Kansas City Downtown in September...it is
a
really cool airport flanked by the river. I was last there during the
almighty '93 floods.
Congratulations.
Cheers
Russell
On 16/4/04 2:51 PM, "Alan Kucheck" wrote:
>
>
> Jim:
>
> Congratulations and welcome.
>
> I own a 1962 500A [converted by Colemill in '73] and would be happy to
> forward you a copy of my AFM Supplement that was issued by Colemill at
> the time of the conversion. Just send me an email with your address.
My
> contact info is at the bottom of the page for my 500A:
>
> http://www.kucheck.net/Aircraft/N811D.html
>
> Also, I am happy to announce to the group that 11D is, after about 3
> months of downtime, once again flying with some fresh zero-time OHs.
> The new engines are very smooth and everything seems to be in order.
> Nice to be airborne again!
>
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Hasler [mailto:jhasler(at)gte.net]
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Hello
>
>
> Hello =96
>
> My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
> bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored
> in
> Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be
based
> in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
> slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack
performance
> figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I
think
> Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
> thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
> forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
> themselves.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
>
>
>
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | LEAKING OIL TANKS |
Phil in your post concerning seeping oil tanks, you stated that you retorqued
to bottom bolts. I assume that you are referring to the dozen or so bolts
that attach the sump to the tank. Is this correct?
Thanx,
Moe
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com> |
| Subject: | vacuum warning light pressure switch |
Hi All,
I might have a problem with the vacuum warning light pressure switch which
is located just before the T manifold/shuttle valve thing behind the baggage
compartment in my 500B. I say might because I haven't done the
troubleshooting yet but I have a light that stays on even with vacuum
pressure on that side (one engine running). It is possible the pressure
switch is faulty and won't open in the presence of vacuum. Does anyone know
if these can be overhauled? I don't have the manufacturer or p/n handy, but
if anyone has any information I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
Scott
N222LE
500B 1525-187
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: vacuum warning light pressure switch |
Yes,
Inside the stainless steel housing (which isspot welded in about three
places, and must be ground open) is a small piston with a spring which can be
adjusted with a nut. To properly adjust this, you need an adjustable vacuum pump
with a good gage. The stainless housing has the correct setting listed on it.
This piston/spring triggers a miniature switch which controls the light. The
switch is commercially available for about $2.00. After repairs are made you
will need to heli-arc the housing back together (3 small spot welds).
If you fly IFR this is a very good safety device.
Good luck!
Moe
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Alan,
Connect the dots for us. Rochester, Santa Fe and Chicago do not seem on a
straight line. Where are you coming from?
Santa Fe is not noted for cheep fuel prices. Just up the valley is Los
Alamos, LAM. They have low cost self service AVGAS. The route over the
Santa Fe VOR SAF is the way through the pass at lower altitudes.
Another possible stop would be Durango DRO and they have self service AVGAS.
Spend the day and ride the Durango Silverton RR. Neat town. On the way to
Chicago, Salina, KS SLN is the quick turn around spot. Buy 100 gallons and
you get a free steak. Burlington, KS UKL is low cost stop for AVGAS since
the county runs it. In the Kansas City area, Johnson County Executive OJC
has self service AVGAS.
Happy flying.
Tylor Hall
I am planning on taking 11D on kind of a long cross country, about three
weeks, starting around July 24th or so. Furthest destination is
Rochester NY, with planned stops in Santa Fe, Chicago (PWK) outbound;
Montgomery AL, New Orleans, Austin on the return. If anyone knows of
some great little airport on this approximate route that I really
shouldn't miss, don't be shy.
ak
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com> |
Tylor:
Point of origin and return is SNA in Southern Cal. Destinations with
business or family include Chicago, Ann Arbor, Rochester, Montgomery AL.
The other points - Santa Fe, New Orleans, Austin merely would be
entertaining refueling/overnight possibilities. If you need to stop
somewhere, might as well make it fun, right?
Thanks for the tips below - Durango sounds cool. I'll be checking into
them.
ak
-----Original Message-----
From: tylor.hall [mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net]
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hello
Alan,
Connect the dots for us. Rochester, Santa Fe and Chicago do not seem on
a
straight line. Where are you coming from?
Santa Fe is not noted for cheep fuel prices. Just up the valley is Los
Alamos, LAM. They have low cost self service AVGAS. The route over the
Santa Fe VOR SAF is the way through the pass at lower altitudes.
Another possible stop would be Durango DRO and they have self service
AVGAS.
Spend the day and ride the Durango Silverton RR. Neat town. On the way
to
Chicago, Salina, KS SLN is the quick turn around spot. Buy 100 gallons
and
you get a free steak. Burlington, KS UKL is low cost stop for AVGAS
since
the county runs it. In the Kansas City area, Johnson County Executive
OJC
has self service AVGAS.
Happy flying.
Tylor Hall
I am planning on taking 11D on kind of a long cross country, about three
weeks, starting around July 24th or so. Furthest destination is
Rochester NY, with planned stops in Santa Fe, Chicago (PWK) outbound;
Montgomery AL, New Orleans, Austin on the return. If anyone knows of
some great little airport on this approximate route that I really
shouldn't miss, don't be shy.
ak
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | The case of the door key |
Hello all,
Ok, this is my version of the story and I am sticking to it regardless of
what Charlie says. A friend of mine, Charlie Davis, was interested in buying
a Commander. His wife wanted two engines for the trips they made. His
mother-in-law goes with them often but has claustrophobia so he needed a
plane with room. I told him to take the key to my plane go out and let
everyone sit in it and see if it was really what he wanted and needed for
his mother-in-law to feel comfortable. He unlocks the door and turns the key
to try to get it out but decides that he will just leave it in since they
were not going to fly. He closed the door and they decide this will work.
His mother-in-law does not feel closed in and is comfortable. Now he tries
to open the door but it will not open. Some how when he closed the door it
locked. Now he is thinking, when is his mother-in-law going to start
shredding the inside of the plane and start making a door on the right side
of the plane, even though no Commander has one there. The plane was in the
back of the 120x120 foot hangar and I mean in the very back. When they went
in, they only opened one door about 4 feet. Charlie is looking for some one
to pass by but no one does. He tried to call on the radio but no answer. Now
he is really getting concerned. He finds a screw driver and thinks about
taking out a window but decides that won't work. Then he finds the escape
hatch, opens it, and shoves his wife out so she can go around and open the
door. Even with all this he still bought a very beautiful 500B which we
picked up in NC last week. That was another whole story but was a very
enjoyable trip. He will be joining the TCFG soon. This is why I had to tell
this story before he gets here and tells his side. I did have his permission
to tell the story. We do, however, have a question, and we know that it
should never happen in flight, but is there any way to open the door if it
gets locked other than the way he did?
Jim Addington
500A
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: The case of the door key |
Pull off the interior panel on the door?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: Commander-List: The case of the door key
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Ok, this is my version of the story and I am sticking to it regardless of
> what Charlie says. A friend of mine, Charlie Davis, was interested in
buying
> a Commander. His wife wanted two engines for the trips they made. His
> mother-in-law goes with them often but has claustrophobia so he needed a
> plane with room. I told him to take the key to my plane go out and let
> everyone sit in it and see if it was really what he wanted and needed for
> his mother-in-law to feel comfortable. He unlocks the door and turns the
key
> to try to get it out but decides that he will just leave it in since they
> were not going to fly. He closed the door and they decide this will work.
> His mother-in-law does not feel closed in and is comfortable. Now he tries
> to open the door but it will not open. Some how when he closed the door it
> locked. Now he is thinking, when is his mother-in-law going to start
> shredding the inside of the plane and start making a door on the right
side
> of the plane, even though no Commander has one there. The plane was in the
> back of the 120x120 foot hangar and I mean in the very back. When they
went
> in, they only opened one door about 4 feet. Charlie is looking for some
one
> to pass by but no one does. He tried to call on the radio but no answer.
Now
> he is really getting concerned. He finds a screw driver and thinks about
> taking out a window but decides that won't work. Then he finds the escape
> hatch, opens it, and shoves his wife out so she can go around and open the
> door. Even with all this he still bought a very beautiful 500B which we
> picked up in NC last week. That was another whole story but was a very
> enjoyable trip. He will be joining the TCFG soon. This is why I had to
tell
> this story before he gets here and tells his side. I did have his
permission
> to tell the story. We do, however, have a question, and we know that it
> should never happen in flight, but is there any way to open the door if it
> gets locked other than the way he did?
>
> Jim Addington
> 500A
> N444BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
Well, I flew triple 2 again today and made two flights and landed
with both engines running both times, YEA!! I thought I was going to just let
my
M.E. rating laps since I seem to only fly on one anyway. N222JS is running
GGRREAT!! It is so good to be back in the saddle. I plan to fly to Sanpoint,
there all week and will be driving home (10 hours) right under me as I balst
home a 12.5 and 200 mph (1.7hr).
Hope all is wel in your Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | The case of the door key |
I will pass that on.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom
Fisher
Subject: Re: Commander-List: The case of the door key
Pull off the interior panel on the door?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: Commander-List: The case of the door key
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Ok, this is my version of the story and I am sticking to it regardless of
> what Charlie says. A friend of mine, Charlie Davis, was interested in
buying
> a Commander. His wife wanted two engines for the trips they made. His
> mother-in-law goes with them often but has claustrophobia so he needed a
> plane with room. I told him to take the key to my plane go out and let
> everyone sit in it and see if it was really what he wanted and needed for
> his mother-in-law to feel comfortable. He unlocks the door and turns the
key
> to try to get it out but decides that he will just leave it in since they
> were not going to fly. He closed the door and they decide this will work.
> His mother-in-law does not feel closed in and is comfortable. Now he tries
> to open the door but it will not open. Some how when he closed the door it
> locked. Now he is thinking, when is his mother-in-law going to start
> shredding the inside of the plane and start making a door on the right
side
> of the plane, even though no Commander has one there. The plane was in the
> back of the 120x120 foot hangar and I mean in the very back. When they
went
> in, they only opened one door about 4 feet. Charlie is looking for some
one
> to pass by but no one does. He tried to call on the radio but no answer.
Now
> he is really getting concerned. He finds a screw driver and thinks about
> taking out a window but decides that won't work. Then he finds the escape
> hatch, opens it, and shoves his wife out so she can go around and open the
> door. Even with all this he still bought a very beautiful 500B which we
> picked up in NC last week. That was another whole story but was a very
> enjoyable trip. He will be joining the TCFG soon. This is why I had to
tell
> this story before he gets here and tells his side. I did have his
permission
> to tell the story. We do, however, have a question, and we know that it
> should never happen in flight, but is there any way to open the door if it
> gets locked other than the way he did?
>
> Jim Addington
> 500A
> N444BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I hope this will not deter you from returning to Abbotsford, (August
airshow?, If you want, I can put 222JS in the static portion of the airshow
for three days as a search aircraft).
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: M.E. time
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> Well, I flew triple 2 again today and made two flights and landed
> with both engines running both times, YEA!! I thought I was going to just
let my
> M.E. rating laps since I seem to only fly on one anyway. N222JS is
running
> GGRREAT!! It is so good to be back in the saddle. I plan to fly to
Sanpoint,
> there all week and will be driving home (10 hours) right under me as I
balst
> home a 12.5 and 200 mph (1.7hr).
> Hope all is wel in your Commanderland. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | LEAKING OIL TANKS |
Those are the ones.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: <MOEMILLS(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Date: 4/16/2004 3:47:24 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: LEAKING OIL TANKS
>
>
> Phil in your post concerning seeping oil tanks, you stated that you
retorqued
> to bottom bolts. I assume that you are referring to the dozen or so
bolts
> that attach the sump to the tank. Is this correct?
>
> Thanx,
>
> Moe
> N680RR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/16/2004 9:03:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
I hope this will not deter you from returning to Abbotsford, (August
airshow?, If you want, I can put 222JS in the static portion of the airshow
for three days as a search aircraft).
Tom F.
What date?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: LEAKING OIL TANKS |
In a message dated 4/16/2004 10:53:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
br549phil(at)mindspring.com writes:
Those are the ones
Caution should be used here. I tightened mine and while it did slow the leak
temporarily, it returned much worse. I believe that the tank is brittle
between the sump casting and the wing skin and tightening the bolts may have
caused an even larger leak?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
It is usually the second weekend of August, last year it was Aug 8,9 & 10.
This year I think it will be Aug 13,14 &15 but I will update this
information as I receive it.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: M.E. time
>
> In a message dated 4/16/2004 9:03:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
> I hope this will not deter you from returning to Abbotsford, (August
> airshow?, If you want, I can put 222JS in the static portion of the
airshow
> for three days as a search aircraft).
> Tom F.
> What date?? jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Seeking Knowledge... |
Hi guys,
Anybody out there have an opinion on P Navajo's...owned or operated one..?? I
am considering purchasing one, and am interested in information about maintenance,
operating costs, performance, etc.
Thanks,
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LEAKING OIL TANKS |
Or small cracks?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: LEAKING OIL TANKS
>
> In a message dated 4/16/2004 10:53:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> br549phil(at)mindspring.com writes:
> Those are the ones
> Caution should be used here. I tightened mine and while it did slow the
leak
> temporarily, it returned much worse. I believe that the tank is brittle
> between the sump casting and the wing skin and tightening the bolts may
have
> caused an even larger leak?? jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Seeking Knowledge... |
Randy,
The P-Navajo has the TIGO-541-E1A engine. Like the engines in your 680,
Lycoming does not support it. Parts are hard to come by. I had a customer
that flew one into Pagosa Springs. We changed the vacuum pump. Bridget
"Fingers" the AI, found only two bolds holding it on. The other two were
loose. Only someone with really small hands can get to it. The customer
liked it and owned two of them. The second was for parts. But they are
cheep compared to the Cessna 414 or 421.
Tylor Hall
Hi guys,
Anybody out there have an opinion on P Navajo's...owned or operated one..??
I am considering purchasing one, and am interested in information about
maintenance, operating costs, performance, etc.
Thanks,
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking Knowledge... |
In a message dated 04/17/04 17:58:22 Pacific Daylight Time,
tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
> The P-Navajo has the TIGO-541-E1A engine. Like the engines in your 680,
> Lycoming does not support it.
There. Tylor said it. I was going to, but didn't want to sound too
critical.
I have zero P-Navajo experience. But I will toss this useless
opinion/question out and maybe someone can shed some light on it.
I believe the Piper Cheyenne is based on or very similar to the P-Navajo
airframe. I understand that the short body Cheyenne (not the XL) has a SAS; a
Stability Augmentation System.
I'm suspicious of an airplane that needs synthetic devices to make them
flyable. The aircraft that I've flown that do have SAS of one kind or another
are
the Merlin III series and the Lear 25D. Both are in my Top Three List for
Great Performing Airplanes that I Hated to Fly.
If you want to go pressurized, look at the AC-685. It probably has a
similar runway requirement and performance -- but you know the systems and handling
are top notch.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Alan,
Likewise for my 500A, hopefully soon to be "improved"with a few more
horsepower.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 00:54 17/04/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>Alan,
>
>I have a 500A with the I-O470s that I would like to some day convert. Could
>I get you to add me to the email list when you send the Colemill
>information.
>
>Thanks
>Jim Addington
>N444BD
>jtaddington(at)charter.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
>Kucheck
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hello
>
>
>
>
>Jim:
>
>Congratulations and welcome.
>
>I own a 1962 500A [converted by Colemill in '73] and would be happy to
>forward you a copy of my AFM Supplement that was issued by Colemill at
>the time of the conversion. Just send me an email with your address. My
>contact info is at the bottom of the page for my 500A:
>
>http://www.kucheck.net/Aircraft/N811D.html
>
>Also, I am happy to announce to the group that 11D is, after about 3
>months of downtime, once again flying with some fresh zero-time OHs.
>The new engines are very smooth and everything seems to be in order.
>Nice to be airborne again!
>
>Alan
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Hasler [mailto:jhasler(at)gte.net]
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: Hello
>
>
>Hello =96
>
>My name is Jim Hasler and I am new to the Commander List. I recently
>bought Gary Gadberry=92s 500A (N800AC). It is presently being restored
>in
>Chattanooga and scheduled to be completed by this June. It will be based
>in St Joseph, MO (STJ). It has the Colemill 300HP conversion. I am
>slowly gathering some specifications for the plane but lack performance
>figures. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I think
>Mr. Barry Coleman has already posed this question to the group but I
>thought maybe you would like to know a little about me. I am looking
>forward to talking with you and meeting you as opportunities present
>themselves.
>
>Thanks
>Jim
>
>
>==
>==
>==
>==
>
>
COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note.
The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton,
Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is:
will remain valid for about three months.
All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about
three months, the date will be notified.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking Knowledge... |
Thanks Keith...I knew that you would have a few pearls of wisdom to share.
RD
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Seeking Knowledge...
>
> In a message dated 04/17/04 17:58:22 Pacific Daylight Time,
> tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
>
> > The P-Navajo has the TIGO-541-E1A engine. Like the engines in your 680,
> > Lycoming does not support it.
>
>
> There. Tylor said it. I was going to, but didn't want to sound too
> critical.
>
> I have zero P-Navajo experience. But I will toss this useless
> opinion/question out and maybe someone can shed some light on it.
>
> I believe the Piper Cheyenne is based on or very similar to the P-Navajo
> airframe. I understand that the short body Cheyenne (not the XL) has a
SAS; a
> Stability Augmentation System.
>
> I'm suspicious of an airplane that needs synthetic devices to make them
> flyable. The aircraft that I've flown that do have SAS of one kind or
another are
> the Merlin III series and the Lear 25D. Both are in my Top Three List
for
> Great Performing Airplanes that I Hated to Fly.
>
> If you want to go pressurized, look at the AC-685. It probably has a
> similar runway requirement and performance -- but you know the systems and
handling
> are top notch.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking Knowledge... |
Thanks Tyler...I appreciate the information.
RD
----- Original Message -----
From: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Seeking Knowledge...
>
> Randy,
> The P-Navajo has the TIGO-541-E1A engine. Like the engines in your 680,
> Lycoming does not support it. Parts are hard to come by. I had a
customer
> that flew one into Pagosa Springs. We changed the vacuum pump. Bridget
> "Fingers" the AI, found only two bolds holding it on. The other two were
> loose. Only someone with really small hands can get to it. The customer
> liked it and owned two of them. The second was for parts. But they are
> cheep compared to the Cessna 414 or 421.
> Tylor Hall
>
>
> Hi guys,
> Anybody out there have an opinion on P Navajo's...owned or operated
one..??
> I am considering purchasing one, and am interested in information about
> maintenance, operating costs, performance, etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F/N6253X
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Loschiavo" <vince320(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking Knowledge... |
Hi Randy,
We are currently operating the Navajo down here in FL.. drop me a line at
vince320(at)comcast.net for info.
Best
Vince
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Seeking Knowledge...
>
> Hi guys,
> Anybody out there have an opinion on P Navajo's...owned or operated
one..?? I am considering purchasing one, and am interested in information
about maintenance, operating costs, performance, etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F/N6253X
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LEAKING OIL TANKS |
Well.....
Mine are still dry as a bone after years of leaks....
> [Original Message]
> From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> To:
> Date: 4/17/2004 6:54:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: LEAKING OIL TANKS
>
>
> Or small cracks?
> Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To: ; ;
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: LEAKING OIL TANKS
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 4/16/2004 10:53:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > br549phil(at)mindspring.com writes:
> > Those are the ones
> > Caution should be used here. I tightened mine and while it did slow the
> leak
> > temporarily, it returned much worse. I believe that the tank is brittle
> > between the sump casting and the wing skin and tightening the bolts may
> have
> > caused an even larger leak?? jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
It is time to make plans for this years flyin. It promises to be by
far the best ever. Last year, John Bosch and all of the fine people at
Commander Aero showed us an amazing time. This year John Towner will be our host
a
Central Air in Kansas City. BOB HOVER has been invited and is planing to
attend!!! John is finishing up the reservations at the K.C. Marriott for our
rooms and dinner. This will be a wonderful event and you cant miss it!! Contact
me soon for you registration form and I will let you know when room
reservations will be taken.
Lets make this the best event ever!! Jim Metzger, Director, Twin
Commander Flight Group
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN!!!!!!! |
Please send registration form. Are you sending by email or do you want a
USPS address?
Nico
PS. This time the ghost will show up!
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: FLYIN!!!!!!!
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> It is time to make plans for this years flyin. It promises to be
by
> far the best ever. Last year, John Bosch and all of the fine people at
> Commander Aero showed us an amazing time. This year John Towner will be
our host a
> Central Air in Kansas City. BOB HOVER has been invited and is planing to
> attend!!! John is finishing up the reservations at the K.C. Marriott for
our
> rooms and dinner. This will be a wonderful event and you cant miss it!!
Contact
> me soon for you registration form and I will let you know when room
> reservations will be taken.
> Lets make this the best event ever!! Jim Metzger, Director, Twin
> Commander Flight Group
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I am going to do my best to be there, please send me the information.
Jim Addington
500A
N444BD
jtaddington(at)charter.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: FLYIN!!!!!!!
HI KIDS.
It is time to make plans for this years flyin. It promises to be by
far the best ever. Last year, John Bosch and all of the fine people at
Commander Aero showed us an amazing time. This year John Towner will be our
host a
Central Air in Kansas City. BOB HOVER has been invited and is planing to
attend!!! John is finishing up the reservations at the K.C. Marriott for
our
rooms and dinner. This will be a wonderful event and you cant miss it!!
Contact
me soon for you registration form and I will let you know when room
reservations will be taken.
Lets make this the best event ever!! Jim Metzger, Director, Twin
Commander Flight Group
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Dominguez" <dan(at)worldflight2000.com> |
Alan K-
Congratulations on the 500A. I would like to place it as Commander of the Season
(Spring 2004) for all the work done to it with before/after pictures and your
story as well as your planned adventure with stops. Perhaps we can post a
daily log on the web site with digital pictures...etc.
JimBob-
Congrats on 222! As soon as we have it I would like to put the information online
regarding this year's fly in. I am hoping N2782B can make it as well...
Everyone Else-
I am hoping a bathtub or streamline commander can make it to NY for a dinner presentation
May 6th. Expenses will be paid and the aircraft will be a backdrop,
along with a G-V for a corporate banquet (IBM Flight Dept). They have offered
to pay for expenses and a seat at the show which will host an Astronaut, and
while I have posted several times to the web site I have found little interest.
The reason the Aerocommander is being requested is because it was the FIRST
corporate airplane (AC-520) for this company. The airport is White Plains
(HPN)- and I am hoping someone is able to show their Commander. Please email
me at dan(at)worldflight2000.com if you are interested...
Blue Skies...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN!!!!!!! |
Hi Capt JimBob,
Well, I wouldn't like to disappoint Mr Hoover, so I suppose you better count me
in too!!!!!!
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
(UK CommanderLand Rep.)
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: FLYIN!!!!!!!
|
| HI KIDS.
|
| It is time to make plans for this years flyin. It promises to be by
| far the best ever. Last year, John Bosch and all of the fine people at
| Commander Aero showed us an amazing time. This year John Towner will be our
host a
| Central Air in Kansas City. BOB HOVER has been invited and is planing to
| attend!!! John is finishing up the reservations at the K.C. Marriott for our
| rooms and dinner. This will be a wonderful event and you cant miss it!!
Contact
| me soon for you registration form and I will let you know when room
| reservations will be taken.
| Lets make this the best event ever!! Jim Metzger, Director, Twin
| Commander Flight Group
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com> |
Dan:
Happy to accommodate. Let's talk about is when you get a chance.
ak
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Dominguez [mailto:dan(at)worldflight2000.com]
Subject: Commander-List: Several Items
Alan K-
Congratulations on the 500A. I would like to place it as Commander of
the Season (Spring 2004) for all the work done to it with before/after
pictures and your story as well as your planned adventure with stops.
Perhaps we can post a daily log on the web site with digital
pictures...etc.
JimBob-
Congrats on 222! As soon as we have it I would like to put the
information online regarding this year's fly in. I am hoping N2782B can
make it as well...
Everyone Else-
I am hoping a bathtub or streamline commander can make it to NY for a
dinner presentation May 6th. Expenses will be paid and the aircraft
will be a backdrop, along with a G-V for a corporate banquet (IBM Flight
Dept). They have offered to pay for expenses and a seat at the show
which will host an Astronaut, and while I have posted several times to
the web site I have found little interest. The reason the Aerocommander
is being requested is because it was the FIRST corporate airplane
(AC-520) for this company. The airport is White Plains (HPN)- and I am
hoping someone is able to show their Commander. Please email me at
dan(at)worldflight2000.com if you are interested...
Blue Skies...
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN!!!!!!! |
JIM, 2001M AND I PLAN ON BEING THERE. THANK YOU MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:06 AM
Subject: Commander-List: FLYIN!!!!!!!
HI KIDS.
It is time to make plans for this years flyin. It promises to be by
far the best ever. Last year, John Bosch and all of the fine people at
Commander Aero showed us an amazing time. This year John Towner will be our
host a
Central Air in Kansas City. BOB HOVER has been invited and is planing to
attend!!! John is finishing up the reservations at the K.C. Marriott for our
rooms and dinner. This will be a wonderful event and you cant miss it!! Contact
me soon for you registration form and I will let you know when room
reservations will be taken.
Lets make this the best event ever!! Jim Metzger, Director, Twin
Commander Flight Group
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN!!!!!!! |
In a message dated 4/19/2004 10:58:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
Well, I wouldn't like to disappoint Mr Hoover, so I suppose you better count
me
in too!!!!!!
He would be crushed without you in attendance!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jody and Susan Pillatzki" <jpillatzki(at)702com.net> |
Hey all
N411VV a 1952 520 is for sale. I have done a lot of work to it in the
past year and am willing to make someone a heck of a deal to move it quickly.
I don't like paying 300 a month for insurance on something I don't have time.
If you want details email me at Jpillatzki(at)702com.net. Also includes two running
take off engines from when it was part 135 and another case with crank and
gearbox. I don't even know all the spare parts that are with it. 2 big crates
full of parts.
Jody Pillatzki
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net> |
How about pictures and equipment list and price and if you would consider
trades of some sort.
Bobby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jody and Susan Pillatzki" <jpillatzki(at)702com.net>
Subject: Commander-List: 411VV
>
> Hey all
>
> N411VV a 1952 520 is for sale. I have done a lot of work to it in
the past year and am willing to make someone a heck of a deal to move it
quickly. I don't like paying 300 a month for insurance on something I don't
have time. If you want details email me at Jpillatzki(at)702com.net. Also
includes two running take off engines from when it was part 135 and another
case with crank and gearbox. I don't even know all the spare parts that are
with it. 2 big crates full of parts.
> Jody Pillatzki
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jody and Susan Pillatzki" <jpillatzki(at)702com.net> |
Bobby
Here is a link to pictures of the commander. Also attached is a spec sheet
from when I bought it a year ago. As noted on the spec sheet add about 80
hrs to the times.
Jody
http://www.aerocommander.com/Pbathtub/2/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 411VV
>
> How about pictures and equipment list and price and if you would consider
> trades of some sort.
> Bobby
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jody and Susan Pillatzki" <jpillatzki(at)702com.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: 411VV
>
>
>
> >
> > Hey all
> >
> > N411VV a 1952 520 is for sale. I have done a lot of work to it
in
> the past year and am willing to make someone a heck of a deal to move it
> quickly. I don't like paying 300 a month for insurance on something I
don't
> have time. If you want details email me at Jpillatzki(at)702com.net. Also
> includes two running take off engines from when it was part 135 and
another
> case with crank and gearbox. I don't even know all the spare parts that
are
> with it. 2 big crates full of parts.
> > Jody Pillatzki
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jody and Susan Pillatzki" <jpillatzki(at)702com.net> |
Bobby
As far as a trade is concerned it depends on what it is. If I can sell
it, it would probably be a consideration. If it is aerobatic and in good
shape I might also consider.
Jody
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 411VV
>
> How about pictures and equipment list and price and if you would consider
> trades of some sort.
> Bobby
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jody and Susan Pillatzki" <jpillatzki(at)702com.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: 411VV
>
>
>
> >
> > Hey all
> >
> > N411VV a 1952 520 is for sale. I have done a lot of work to it
in
> the past year and am willing to make someone a heck of a deal to move it
> quickly. I don't like paying 300 a month for insurance on something I
don't
> have time. If you want details email me at Jpillatzki(at)702com.net. Also
> includes two running take off engines from when it was part 135 and
another
> case with crank and gearbox. I don't even know all the spare parts that
are
> with it. 2 big crates full of parts.
> > Jody Pillatzki
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
Jodi, have you spoken with Dan Domingez about taking your Commander to NY for
the IBM celebration?? They will cover all you expences. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | FYI - Commanders for sale |
FYI,
The DEA is going to be selling off their Commanders. I have no idea
what they currently have. If anyone is interested in finding out more,
the contact for the DEA commander sale is Ben Dixon at 817-837-2058.
The sale is scheduled for May 4th.
If someone gets a list, you might want to post it here for everyone to
see. I believe there are several turbines and possibly several pistons.
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI - Commanders for sale |
I think they had a 560F in Homestead, Fl once
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
>
> FYI,
> The DEA is going to be selling off their Commanders. I have no idea
> what they currently have. If anyone is interested in finding out more,
> the contact for the DEA commander sale is Ben Dixon at 817-837-2058.
> The sale is scheduled for May 4th.
>
> If someone gets a list, you might want to post it here for everyone to
> see. I believe there are several turbines and possibly several pistons.
>
> Chris Schuermann
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI - Commanders for sale |
I HAVE CONTACTED DEA HERE AND WILL TRY TO GET A LIST. MASON FORT WORTH
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Bow<mailto:bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
I think they had a 560F in Homestead, Fl once
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net<mailto:cschuerm(at)cox.net>>
To: >
Subject: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
>
> FYI,
> The DEA is going to be selling off their Commanders. I have no idea
> what they currently have. If anyone is interested in finding out more,
> the contact for the DEA commander sale is Ben Dixon at 817-837-2058.
> The sale is scheduled for May 4th.
>
> If someone gets a list, you might want to post it here for everyone to
> see. I believe there are several turbines and possibly several pistons.
>
> Chris Schuermann
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI - Commanders for sale |
ALL HELICOPTERS, H500. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Bow<mailto:bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
I think they had a 560F in Homestead, Fl once
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net<mailto:cschuerm(at)cox.net>>
To: >
Subject: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
>
> FYI,
> The DEA is going to be selling off their Commanders. I have no idea
> what they currently have. If anyone is interested in finding out more,
> the contact for the DEA commander sale is Ben Dixon at 817-837-2058.
> The sale is scheduled for May 4th.
>
> If someone gets a list, you might want to post it here for everyone to
> see. I believe there are several turbines and possibly several pistons.
>
> Chris Schuermann
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI - Commanders for sale |
ALL COMMANDERS TRADED IN ON KING AIRS LAST YEAR. AUCTION IS FOR 10 H-500 HELICOPTERS.
MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Schuermann<mailto:cschuerm(at)cox.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:06 AM
Subject: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
FYI,
The DEA is going to be selling off their Commanders. I have no idea
what they currently have. If anyone is interested in finding out more,
the contact for the DEA commander sale is Ben Dixon at 817-837-2058.
The sale is scheduled for May 4th.
If someone gets a list, you might want to post it here for everyone to
see. I believe there are several turbines and possibly several pistons.
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sean Spencer" <sean.s(at)cnwltd.com> |
| Subject: | FYI - Commanders for sale |
I just got off the phone with Ben Dixon (with the DEA) and they no
longer have Commanders they traded them in a couple years ago the only
thing they have for sale right now are OH-60 Helo's.
Sean Spencer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
FYI,
The DEA is going to be selling off their Commanders. I have no idea
what they currently have. If anyone is interested in finding out more,
the contact for the DEA commander sale is Ben Dixon at 817-837-2058.
The sale is scheduled for May 4th.
If someone gets a list, you might want to post it here for everyone to
see. I believe there are several turbines and possibly several pistons.
Chris Schuermann
==
==
==
==
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI - Commanders for sale |
Sean Spencer wrote:
> I just got off the phone with Ben Dixon (with the DEA) and they no
> longer have Commanders they traded them in a couple years ago
Sorry for providing inaccurate info. The person who passed that along
should have been in a position to know exactly the facts so I didn't
bother checking up before passing it along. I'll shut up now
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI - Commanders for sale |
My question is how come we did not get in on the Commander giveaway?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
>
>
> Sean Spencer wrote:
> > I just got off the phone with Ben Dixon (with the DEA) and they no
> > longer have Commanders they traded them in a couple years ago
>
> Sorry for providing inaccurate info. The person who passed that along
> should have been in a position to know exactly the facts so I didn't
> bother checking up before passing it along. I'll shut up now
>
> chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Bijou" <tom(at)bhmassociates.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI - Commanders for sale |
I bought a few of the DEA commanders ... and I do not remember them being a
give away ... just fairly priced for tired and pretty well run out aircraft.
The one I kept for myself needed props, engines, avionics, paint and
interior along with a full set of inspections to stop if from leaking fuel,
oil, o2, nitrogen, hydraulic fluid, and pressure! But it was the only way
to get a 695B, the finest aircraft in the world.
You can see the resulting aircraft on my web site at www.bhmassociates.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom
Fisher
Subject: [personal] Re: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
My question is how come we did not get in on the Commander giveaway?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FYI - Commanders for sale
>
>
> Sean Spencer wrote:
> > I just got off the phone with Ben Dixon (with the DEA) and they no
> > longer have Commanders they traded them in a couple years ago
>
> Sorry for providing inaccurate info. The person who passed that along
> should have been in a position to know exactly the facts so I didn't
> bother checking up before passing it along. I'll shut up now
>
> chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
If the person looking for a Commander for May 6 at HPN is still looking, let me
know.
Phil Stubbs
br549phil(at)mindspring.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
no commanders are available from DEA THEY WERE LIQUIDATED LAST YEAR IN FAVOR OF
KING AIRS. MASON FORT WORTH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Gear down, check 3 green |
So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly. I
drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down again.
Still nothing. [Did the red light come on during the momentary up? Shit -
can't remember. It *was* on before the first attempt to lower.]
Cycle the breaker. Nothing. No indication of hydraulic failure, the gear
looks down and they "felt" normal going down. I play with the lenses. I push
to test. Nothing. Hmmm.
Low pass? What will that do? I can see the mains. I recall my days as a
controller: "11D, gear appears down and in place. Say intentions." I figure
they could spot a nose gear problem, but the mains are not indicating down
and locked either and I have a better view than the tower does of those.
I elect to land without requesting equipment. I'm ready to shut everything
down quickly if necessary. I'll try to make this one nice and easy. Well,
wind was reported as 340 @ 11G22. My attempt to gently place the gear on the
runway failed. I arrived quite firmly and the gear held. If there were a
problem with the gear mechanism, rather than the indicator lights, that
landing wouuld have exposed it. Yeah, that's right, I did it that way on
purpose.
Should I [would you ] have done anything differently?
==========================================
As I was rethinking the episode later I was asking myself, "Could the lights
have been masked by direct sunlight?" I remember trying to shield them and
still seeing nothing. I decide to go to the plane after dark and look then.
Master on, two bright red vacuum failure lights, but no green ones. I cycle
the breaker [again]. I sit and ponder. Just then, without me touching
anything the left main light flickers on, faintly. Then the right. Then the
right goes out. Then the left. Then they both come on, faintly, doing that
distant star flicker thing. I adjust the lens on the nose gear light and
coax a dim light there as well. I leave the plane, knowing that I will
never see these during daylight.
Saturday afternoon, preflight. Master on. Three bright green lights. Jeez!
Return to SNA, no problems. On approach: you guessed it. No green lights.
;>(
Bad, cranky breaker? Other ideas?
Thanks
ak
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
That's exactly what I 'd have done.
I haven't touched my gear handle in a long time. It is obviously something
in common with them all not working. Isn't there a switch on the gear
handle itself that "arms" the green lights?
nice job Alan
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
> So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
> traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly. I
> drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down
again.
> Still nothing. [Did the red light come on during the momentary up? Shit -
> can't remember. It *was* on before the first attempt to lower.]
>
> Cycle the breaker. Nothing. No indication of hydraulic failure, the gear
> looks down and they "felt" normal going down. I play with the lenses. I
push
> to test. Nothing. Hmmm.
>
> Low pass? What will that do? I can see the mains. I recall my days as a
> controller: "11D, gear appears down and in place. Say intentions." I
figure
> they could spot a nose gear problem, but the mains are not indicating down
> and locked either and I have a better view than the tower does of those.
>
> I elect to land without requesting equipment. I'm ready to shut everything
> down quickly if necessary. I'll try to make this one nice and easy. Well,
> wind was reported as 340 @ 11G22. My attempt to gently place the gear on
the
> runway failed. I arrived quite firmly and the gear held. If there were a
> problem with the gear mechanism, rather than the indicator lights, that
> landing wouuld have exposed it. Yeah, that's right, I did it that way on
> purpose.
>
> Should I [would you ] have done anything differently?
>
> ==========================================
>
> As I was rethinking the episode later I was asking myself, "Could the
lights
> have been masked by direct sunlight?" I remember trying to shield them and
> still seeing nothing. I decide to go to the plane after dark and look
then.
>
> Master on, two bright red vacuum failure lights, but no green ones. I
cycle
> the breaker [again]. I sit and ponder. Just then, without me touching
> anything the left main light flickers on, faintly. Then the right. Then
the
> right goes out. Then the left. Then they both come on, faintly, doing that
> distant star flicker thing. I adjust the lens on the nose gear light and
> coax a dim light there as well. I leave the plane, knowing that I will
> never see these during daylight.
>
> Saturday afternoon, preflight. Master on. Three bright green lights. Jeez!
> Return to SNA, no problems. On approach: you guessed it. No green lights.
> ;>(
>
> Bad, cranky breaker? Other ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
> ak
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
Hey Alan,
You're not a virgin anymore! I've had that happen too, due to a complete
hydraulic pressure loss, and in my case, I also did just what you did.
Commander mains rarely fail to lock if the bungees and the nitrogen systems
are kept in good condition. Anything else is incidental.
I did learn one thing the hard way, and I'll remember this always: DON'T
cycle the gear again. I did that, and with zero hydraulic pressure, that
popped the nosewheel up above center again so that it would lock down
inertially. I set the airplane down very gently and rolled it out on only
the mains for 5,000 feet or so, then gently turned off the runway and set
the nose down as easily as I could. The nosegear collapsed, but I did very
little damage. It only cost $7k to fix (argh!). I could have saved that
money if I just remembered what I'd learned in my initial training. Of
course, your situation was different since you had pressure....
Also, I think in the future, I'd like to see my tax dollars at work. I'll
roll the trucks if that ever happens again, if for no reason other than that
those guys can probably use the practice ;-).
Kudos for completing the flight safely. I hope you find out that it's just
lightbulbs or a microswitch!
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
> That's exactly what I 'd have done.
>
> I haven't touched my gear handle in a long time. It is obviously
something
> in common with them all not working. Isn't there a switch on the gear
> handle itself that "arms" the green lights?
>
> nice job Alan
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
>
>
> >
> > So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
> > traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly. I
> > drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down
> again.
> > Still nothing. [Did the red light come on during the momentary up?
Shit -
> > can't remember. It *was* on before the first attempt to lower.]
> >
> > Cycle the breaker. Nothing. No indication of hydraulic failure, the gear
> > looks down and they "felt" normal going down. I play with the lenses. I
> push
> > to test. Nothing. Hmmm.
> >
> > Low pass? What will that do? I can see the mains. I recall my days as a
> > controller: "11D, gear appears down and in place. Say intentions." I
> figure
> > they could spot a nose gear problem, but the mains are not indicating
down
> > and locked either and I have a better view than the tower does of those.
> >
> > I elect to land without requesting equipment. I'm ready to shut
everything
> > down quickly if necessary. I'll try to make this one nice and easy.
Well,
> > wind was reported as 340 @ 11G22. My attempt to gently place the gear on
> the
> > runway failed. I arrived quite firmly and the gear held. If there were a
> > problem with the gear mechanism, rather than the indicator lights, that
> > landing wouuld have exposed it. Yeah, that's right, I did it that way on
> > purpose.
> >
> > Should I [would you ] have done anything differently?
> >
> > ==========================================
> >
> > As I was rethinking the episode later I was asking myself, "Could the
> lights
> > have been masked by direct sunlight?" I remember trying to shield them
and
> > still seeing nothing. I decide to go to the plane after dark and look
> then.
> >
> > Master on, two bright red vacuum failure lights, but no green ones. I
> cycle
> > the breaker [again]. I sit and ponder. Just then, without me touching
> > anything the left main light flickers on, faintly. Then the right. Then
> the
> > right goes out. Then the left. Then they both come on, faintly, doing
that
> > distant star flicker thing. I adjust the lens on the nose gear light and
> > coax a dim light there as well. I leave the plane, knowing that I will
> > never see these during daylight.
> >
> > Saturday afternoon, preflight. Master on. Three bright green lights.
Jeez!
> > Return to SNA, no problems. On approach: you guessed it. No green
lights.
> > ;>(
> >
> > Bad, cranky breaker? Other ideas?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > ak
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
> So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
> >traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly. I
> >drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down again.>
> Still nothing.
Alan,
Nice work!
The problem is with the OAK Ry 27 R ILS. The only gear problem I've had in a
biz jet was on the ILS to that runway.
What model Commander do you operate? That will be a need-to-know for trouble
shooting. (Not that I can trouble shoot it ...)
The fine thing about a Commander is that you can see the mains. If they look
down and straight, they are.
If it's day time and your spinners are polished, you can see the nose gear
down -- or have the tower tell you, as you so well know.
Since you were able to cycle the gear up and down, any hydraulic problem is
not the case. With a hydraulic problem, getting the gear down is no problem
either, but that's another story.
We know it wasn't an "O" ring so must be a micro switch, right? Those are
the causes of all airplane trouble. ;-)
Asking for emergency equipment is the tricky call. If you do, you'll get
your 15 minutes of fame. If you don't and you do have a problem on landing,
you get 15 minutes of fame and tortured by the NTSB and FAA.
I always ask for assistance, get to meet the fire chief, answer a few
questions for their forms and get thanked for providing them with an exercise.
(And no, Bilbo, I know what you're thinking. This is not my SOP for all
landings. Yet.)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
Hey WAIT A MINUTE! I had a no-nosegear light on an approach to OAK 27R (in
someone else's 500B...turned out to be a bad switch)! It IS the runway!
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
>
> > So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
> > >traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly.
I
> > >drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down
again.>
> > Still nothing.
>
> Alan,
> Nice work!
>
> The problem is with the OAK Ry 27 R ILS. The only gear problem I've had
in a
> biz jet was on the ILS to that runway.
>
> What model Commander do you operate? That will be a need-to-know for
trouble
> shooting. (Not that I can trouble shoot it ...)
>
> The fine thing about a Commander is that you can see the mains. If they
look
> down and straight, they are.
>
> If it's day time and your spinners are polished, you can see the nose gear
> down -- or have the tower tell you, as you so well know.
>
> Since you were able to cycle the gear up and down, any hydraulic problem
is
> not the case. With a hydraulic problem, getting the gear down is no
problem
> either, but that's another story.
>
> We know it wasn't an "O" ring so must be a micro switch, right? Those are
> the causes of all airplane trouble. ;-)
>
> Asking for emergency equipment is the tricky call. If you do, you'll get
> your 15 minutes of fame. If you don't and you do have a problem on
landing,
> you get 15 minutes of fame and tortured by the NTSB and FAA.
>
> I always ask for assistance, get to meet the fire chief, answer a few
> questions for their forms and get thanked for providing them with an
exercise.
>
> (And no, Bilbo, I know what you're thinking. This is not my SOP for all
> landings. Yet.)
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gear down, check 3 green |
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com> |
Given these early exit polls I'm happy to blame the runway. However, to
sustain the theory we would all have to believe that this bewitched
runway is capable of projecting its curse onto 19R at SNA on the return
trip as well. Maybe it is like an STD: I "got it" from OAK 27R and
"passed it on" to SNA 19R. Let's hope not. ;>)
WCG: 811D is a 1962 500A Colemill. I don't have the shop manual here,
but in talking with my mechanic [who does have it], it appears that the
only common wiring is at the breaker. Each light has an individual
ground. After I return from a business trip [commercial, back of the
bus] on Thursday, I'll take a look and report my findings.
ak
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum [mailto:john(at)vormbaum.com]
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
Hey WAIT A MINUTE! I had a no-nosegear light on an approach to OAK 27R
(in
someone else's 500B...turned out to be a bad switch)! It IS the runway!
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
>
> > So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high
for
> > >traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down
quickly.
I
> > >drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then
down
again.>
> > Still nothing.
>
> Alan,
> Nice work!
>
> The problem is with the OAK Ry 27 R ILS. The only gear problem I've
had
in a
> biz jet was on the ILS to that runway.
>
> What model Commander do you operate? That will be a need-to-know for
trouble
> shooting. (Not that I can trouble shoot it ...)
>
> The fine thing about a Commander is that you can see the mains. If
they
look
> down and straight, they are.
>
> If it's day time and your spinners are polished, you can see the nose
gear
> down -- or have the tower tell you, as you so well know.
>
> Since you were able to cycle the gear up and down, any hydraulic
problem
is
> not the case. With a hydraulic problem, getting the gear down is no
problem
> either, but that's another story.
>
> We know it wasn't an "O" ring so must be a micro switch, right? Those
are
> the causes of all airplane trouble. ;-)
>
> Asking for emergency equipment is the tricky call. If you do, you'll
get
> your 15 minutes of fame. If you don't and you do have a problem on
landing,
> you get 15 minutes of fame and tortured by the NTSB and FAA.
>
> I always ask for assistance, get to meet the fire chief, answer a few
> questions for their forms and get thanked for providing them with an
exercise.
>
> (And no, Bilbo, I know what you're thinking. This is not my SOP for
all
> landings. Yet.)
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Gear down, check 3 green |
Glad you got it down with out any problems. This is just a thought but you
may have some corrosion on the terminals or a ground problem.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
> So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
> >traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly. I
> >drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down
again.>
> Still nothing.
Alan,
Nice work!
The problem is with the OAK Ry 27 R ILS. The only gear problem I've had in
a
biz jet was on the ILS to that runway.
What model Commander do you operate? That will be a need-to-know for trouble
shooting. (Not that I can trouble shoot it ...)
The fine thing about a Commander is that you can see the mains. If they
look
down and straight, they are.
If it's day time and your spinners are polished, you can see the nose gear
down -- or have the tower tell you, as you so well know.
Since you were able to cycle the gear up and down, any hydraulic problem is
not the case. With a hydraulic problem, getting the gear down is no
problem
either, but that's another story.
We know it wasn't an "O" ring so must be a micro switch, right? Those are
the causes of all airplane trouble. ;-)
Asking for emergency equipment is the tricky call. If you do, you'll get
your 15 minutes of fame. If you don't and you do have a problem on
landing,
you get 15 minutes of fame and tortured by the NTSB and FAA.
I always ask for assistance, get to meet the fire chief, answer a few
questions for their forms and get thanked for providing them with an
exercise.
(And no, Bilbo, I know what you're thinking. This is not my SOP for all
landings. Yet.)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
In a message dated 4/25/2004 6:31:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
akucheck(at)hotmail.com writes:
Low pass? What will that do?
You can usually confirm the gear down with the hydraulic gauge. If the gear
is visually down, check the gauge. If it is reading normal it is almost
cretin the gear is down and locked. If it is low or fluctuating, immediately pull
the aux hyd pump breaker (it should already have been off) to conserve what
hyd fluid is remaining in the system for brakes and steering. You did a good
job. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
Here we go!
It is my understanding that the "pneudraulics" system on the Aero Commander
uses hydraulics to retract the landing gear and pneumatics to extend the
main landing gear, with the coil spring "bungie" to extend the nose. Thus,
checking the hydraulic pressure will only tell you why it(the gear ) fellout
of the well. anyone ..........anyone......anyone......?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
> In a message dated 4/25/2004 6:31:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> akucheck(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Low pass? What will that do?
> You can usually confirm the gear down with the hydraulic gauge. If the
gear
> is visually down, check the gauge. If it is reading normal it is almost
> cretin the gear is down and locked. If it is low or fluctuating,
immediately pull
> the aux hyd pump breaker (it should already have been off) to conserve
what
> hyd fluid is remaining in the system for brakes and steering. You did a
good
> job. jb
>
>
> Here we go!
It is my understanding that the "pneudraulics" system on the Aero Commander
uses hydraulics to retract the landing gear and pneumatics to extend the
main landing gear, with the coil spring "bungee" to extend the nose. Thus,
checking the hydraulic pressure will only tell you why it(the gear ) fell
out of the well. anyone ..........anyone......anyone......?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
> In a message dated 4/25/2004 6:31:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> akucheck(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Low pass? What will that do?
> You can usually confirm the gear down with the hydraulic gauge. If the
gear
> is visually down, check the gauge. If it is reading normal it is almost
> cretin the gear is down and locked. If it is low or fluctuating,
immediately pull
> the aux hyd pump breaker (it should already have been off) to conserve
what
> hyd fluid is remaining in the system for brakes and steering. You did a
good
> job. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
In a message dated 25-Apr-04 22:13:50 Pacific Daylight Time,
bowing74(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Thus,
> checking the hydraulic pressure will only tell you why it(the gear ) fellout
> of the well. anyone ..........anyone......anyone......?
>
This is very long winded -- and excerpted from the CLOUD CRAFT=AE column from
the third 1995 issue of the Flight Group News, but may be a good review for
some of the new members.
"The landing gear is retracted by hydraulic pressure. It is extended by
hydraulic pressure, pneumatic pressure and gravity, all working at the same=20time
to
do the same job. Let's talk about the pneumatic system first because it is
usually the most misunderstood.
There is a small nitrogen-filled bottle in the baggage compartment area, or
just aft of it in most models. It holds a charge of 275 to 350 psi (higher on
Turbine models) that is read on a gauge located in the left main landing gear
wheel well. This nitrogen charge powers the outboard main landing gear
hydraulic/pneumatic actuators on both main landing gear assemblies. These outboard
sets of actuators are "pneumatic down, hydraulic up." Thus the term
"pneudraulic."
These are working all the time, every time, even though it is commonly called
the "emergency" gear extension system. The fact is that in normal operation,
the 1000 psi of hydraulic pressure on the inboard actuators on each main
landing wheel have more power than the pneumatic (outboard), down-side actuators.
If, however, the hydraulic system was to lose pressure, this 275-350 psi of
nitrogen pressure is still there doing its job. Only this time, it is doing=20all
the work by itself. This is why it is necessary to slow the aircraft down to
help with pneumatic landing gear extension; the pneumatic actuator can't push
against as much of an air load as the 1000 psi hydraulic actuators.
The pilot of an Aero Commander (with the exception of "bath tub" nacelle
models) should understand that the main landing gear is held up by mechanical
uplocks that are hydraulically controlled. The landing gear will remain up until
the pressure is released from the uplocks by movement of the landing gear
control handle.
The nose gear is held up by hydraulic pressure only, acting against a spring
that always pushes the nose wheel toward the down position. If, during flight,
the nose wheel was to extend without you placing the landing gear handle in
the down position, you have had a hydraulic failure. (Note: Depending on model
/ serial number, your hydraulic pressure gauge may show zero or it may show
pressure remaining. In the Shrike and 690 Turbo Commanders, a check valve
isolates the gauge from the rest of the system and the gauge actually shows=20pressure
in the brake system. In this case, you'd know if you had any brakes left for
the landing)."
There's more, but this answers the question you tossed out.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
Hydraulic up and down, with Nitrogen assist down. The nitrogen is to help
the mains extend in the event of you lose Hydraulic Pressure.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
> Here we go!
>
> It is my understanding that the "pneudraulics" system on the Aero
Commander
> uses hydraulics to retract the landing gear and pneumatics to extend the
> main landing gear, with the coil spring "bungie" to extend the nose.
Thus,
> checking the hydraulic pressure will only tell you why it(the gear )
fellout
> of the well. anyone ..........anyone......anyone......?
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 4/25/2004 6:31:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > akucheck(at)hotmail.com writes:
> > Low pass? What will that do?
> > You can usually confirm the gear down with the hydraulic gauge. If the
> gear
> > is visually down, check the gauge. If it is reading normal it is almost
> > cretin the gear is down and locked. If it is low or fluctuating,
> immediately pull
> > the aux hyd pump breaker (it should already have been off) to conserve
> what
> > hyd fluid is remaining in the system for brakes and steering. You did a
> good
> > job. jb
> >
> >
> > Here we go!
>
> It is my understanding that the "pneudraulics" system on the Aero
Commander
> uses hydraulics to retract the landing gear and pneumatics to extend the
> main landing gear, with the coil spring "bungee" to extend the nose.
Thus,
> checking the hydraulic pressure will only tell you why it(the gear ) fell
> out of the well. anyone ..........anyone......anyone......?
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 4/25/2004 6:31:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > akucheck(at)hotmail.com writes:
> > Low pass? What will that do?
> > You can usually confirm the gear down with the hydraulic gauge. If the
> gear
> > is visually down, check the gauge. If it is reading normal it is almost
> > cretin the gear is down and locked. If it is low or fluctuating,
> immediately pull
> > the aux hyd pump breaker (it should already have been off) to conserve
> what
> > hyd fluid is remaining in the system for brakes and steering. You did a
> good
> > job. jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com> |
| Subject: | landing gear lights |
The gear downlock circuit is pretty simple and since all 3 lights are
failing, it should be pretty easy to fix. You can pretty much rule out a
ground problem since each downlock grounds individually (grounded means the
light comes on). It is unlikely the ground at each wheel is intermittent.
The next possible culprit is the 28VDC supply which comes from the circuit
breaker and goes to the #10 terminal on the junction box inside the heater
compartment. You should have 28 VDC there all the time. At that point the 28
VDC splits to supply the mains and nose wheel. Again, since all are faulty
it is probably the single supply from the breaker rather than each
individual supply after the J box. If the lights aren't working on the
ground, then you're in business. Just remove the heater compartment cover
and check for voltage at terminal #10. It could be a loose wire or maybe
even the circuit breaker as you suggested. Good Luck.
Scott
N222LE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
That is exactly one of those moments where a pilot earns his keep in a few
minutes. Nobody can tell you to do it differently. You eyeballed the main
gear. Perhaps you saw the nose gear in the mirror off the engine nacelle.
The gear cycle looked, felt, and sounded normal. You cycled the gear again,
still nothing out of the ordinary. Your call.
This is how I see it. If you elected to retract and land wheels up on the
grass and it turned out to be nothing, you would have felt like a fool. (And
fix the bent skin.) If the gear collapsed on your landing, you would have
been no worse off than otherwise. The runway might have been closed for a
while. Same outcome. I think you did right.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
> So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
> traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly. I
> drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down
again.
> Still nothing. [Did the red light come on during the momentary up? Shit -
> can't remember. It *was* on before the first attempt to lower.]
>
> Cycle the breaker. Nothing. No indication of hydraulic failure, the gear
> looks down and they "felt" normal going down. I play with the lenses. I
push
> to test. Nothing. Hmmm.
>
> Low pass? What will that do? I can see the mains. I recall my days as a
> controller: "11D, gear appears down and in place. Say intentions." I
figure
> they could spot a nose gear problem, but the mains are not indicating down
> and locked either and I have a better view than the tower does of those.
>
> I elect to land without requesting equipment. I'm ready to shut everything
> down quickly if necessary. I'll try to make this one nice and easy. Well,
> wind was reported as 340 @ 11G22. My attempt to gently place the gear on
the
> runway failed. I arrived quite firmly and the gear held. If there were a
> problem with the gear mechanism, rather than the indicator lights, that
> landing wouuld have exposed it. Yeah, that's right, I did it that way on
> purpose.
>
> Should I [would you ] have done anything differently?
>
> ==========================================
>
> As I was rethinking the episode later I was asking myself, "Could the
lights
> have been masked by direct sunlight?" I remember trying to shield them and
> still seeing nothing. I decide to go to the plane after dark and look
then.
>
> Master on, two bright red vacuum failure lights, but no green ones. I
cycle
> the breaker [again]. I sit and ponder. Just then, without me touching
> anything the left main light flickers on, faintly. Then the right. Then
the
> right goes out. Then the left. Then they both come on, faintly, doing that
> distant star flicker thing. I adjust the lens on the nose gear light and
> coax a dim light there as well. I leave the plane, knowing that I will
> never see these during daylight.
>
> Saturday afternoon, preflight. Master on. Three bright green lights. Jeez!
> Return to SNA, no problems. On approach: you guessed it. No green lights.
> ;>(
>
> Bad, cranky breaker? Other ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
> ak
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
That is exactly one of those moments where a pilot earns his keep in a few
minutes. Nobody can tell you to do it differently. You eyeballed the main
gear. Perhaps you saw the nose gear in the mirror off the engine nacelle.
The gear cycle looked, felt, and sounded normal. You cycled the gear again,
still nothing out of the ordinary. Your call.
This is how I see it. If you elected to retract and land wheels up on the
grass and it turned out to be nothing, you would have felt like a fool. (And
fix the bent skin.) If the gear collapsed on your landing, you would have
been no worse off than otherwise. The runway might have been closed for a
while. Same outcome. I think you did right.
I once lost complete hydraulic pressure in flight on my straight 500 and
although I didn't have the luxury of cycling the gear once it dropped into
locked-down, the landing was without incident. Except, of course, without
steering I sat like a passenger in the front seat waiting for it to come to
stop while it castored off the runway into the rough on the side. I did have
the boys bring out the truck and stuff, though, because I believed they
haven't had any action for a while, and if something had gone wrong, I might
have said very unsavory things at a time when praying might have been more
appropriate. :-)
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
> So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
> traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly. I
> drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down
again.
> Still nothing. [Did the red light come on during the momentary up? Shit -
> can't remember. It *was* on before the first attempt to lower.]
>
> Cycle the breaker. Nothing. No indication of hydraulic failure, the gear
> looks down and they "felt" normal going down. I play with the lenses. I
push
> to test. Nothing. Hmmm.
>
> Low pass? What will that do? I can see the mains. I recall my days as a
> controller: "11D, gear appears down and in place. Say intentions." I
figure
> they could spot a nose gear problem, but the mains are not indicating down
> and locked either and I have a better view than the tower does of those.
>
> I elect to land without requesting equipment. I'm ready to shut everything
> down quickly if necessary. I'll try to make this one nice and easy. Well,
> wind was reported as 340 @ 11G22. My attempt to gently place the gear on
the
> runway failed. I arrived quite firmly and the gear held. If there were a
> problem with the gear mechanism, rather than the indicator lights, that
> landing wouuld have exposed it. Yeah, that's right, I did it that way on
> purpose.
>
> Should I [would you ] have done anything differently?
>
> ==========================================
>
> As I was rethinking the episode later I was asking myself, "Could the
lights
> have been masked by direct sunlight?" I remember trying to shield them and
> still seeing nothing. I decide to go to the plane after dark and look
then.
>
> Master on, two bright red vacuum failure lights, but no green ones. I
cycle
> the breaker [again]. I sit and ponder. Just then, without me touching
> anything the left main light flickers on, faintly. Then the right. Then
the
> right goes out. Then the left. Then they both come on, faintly, doing that
> distant star flicker thing. I adjust the lens on the nose gear light and
> coax a dim light there as well. I leave the plane, knowing that I will
> never see these during daylight.
>
> Saturday afternoon, preflight. Master on. Three bright green lights. Jeez!
> Return to SNA, no problems. On approach: you guessed it. No green lights.
> ;>(
>
> Bad, cranky breaker? Other ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
> ak
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
That is exactly one of those moments where a pilot earns his keep in a few
minutes. Nobody can tell you to do it differently. You eyeballed the main
gear. Perhaps you saw the nose gear in the mirror off the engine nacelle.
The gear cycle looked, felt, and sounded normal. You cycled the gear again,
still nothing out of the ordinary. Your call.
This is how I see it. If you elected to retract and land wheels up on the
grass and it turned out to be nothing, you would have felt like a fool. (And
fix the bent skin.) If the gear collapsed on your landing, you would have
been no worse off than otherwise. The runway might have been closed for a
while. Same outcome. I think you did right.
I once lost complete hydraulic pressure in flight on my straight 500 and
although I didn't have the luxury of cycling the gear once it dropped into
locked-down, the landing was without incident. Except, of course, without
steering I sat like a passenger in the front seat waiting for it to come to
stop while it castored off the runway into the rough on the side. I did have
the boys bring out the truck and stuff, though, because I believed they
haven't had any action for a while, and if something had gone wrong, I might
have said very unsavory things at a time when praying might have been more
appropriate. :-)
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
> So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
> traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly. I
> drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down
again.
> Still nothing. [Did the red light come on during the momentary up? Shit -
> can't remember. It *was* on before the first attempt to lower.]
>
> Cycle the breaker. Nothing. No indication of hydraulic failure, the gear
> looks down and they "felt" normal going down. I play with the lenses. I
push
> to test. Nothing. Hmmm.
>
> Low pass? What will that do? I can see the mains. I recall my days as a
> controller: "11D, gear appears down and in place. Say intentions." I
figure
> they could spot a nose gear problem, but the mains are not indicating down
> and locked either and I have a better view than the tower does of those.
>
> I elect to land without requesting equipment. I'm ready to shut everything
> down quickly if necessary. I'll try to make this one nice and easy. Well,
> wind was reported as 340 @ 11G22. My attempt to gently place the gear on
the
> runway failed. I arrived quite firmly and the gear held. If there were a
> problem with the gear mechanism, rather than the indicator lights, that
> landing wouuld have exposed it. Yeah, that's right, I did it that way on
> purpose.
>
> Should I [would you ] have done anything differently?
>
> ==========================================
>
> As I was rethinking the episode later I was asking myself, "Could the
lights
> have been masked by direct sunlight?" I remember trying to shield them and
> still seeing nothing. I decide to go to the plane after dark and look
then.
>
> Master on, two bright red vacuum failure lights, but no green ones. I
cycle
> the breaker [again]. I sit and ponder. Just then, without me touching
> anything the left main light flickers on, faintly. Then the right. Then
the
> right goes out. Then the left. Then they both come on, faintly, doing that
> distant star flicker thing. I adjust the lens on the nose gear light and
> coax a dim light there as well. I leave the plane, knowing that I will
> never see these during daylight.
>
> Saturday afternoon, preflight. Master on. Three bright green lights. Jeez!
> Return to SNA, no problems. On approach: you guessed it. No green lights.
> ;>(
>
> Bad, cranky breaker? Other ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
> ak
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear down, check 3 green |
Sorry, folks, three of these sneaked out. It was on my side that it
happened.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
> That is exactly one of those moments where a pilot earns his keep in a few
> minutes. Nobody can tell you to do it differently. You eyeballed the main
> gear. Perhaps you saw the nose gear in the mirror off the engine nacelle.
> The gear cycle looked, felt, and sounded normal. You cycled the gear
again,
> still nothing out of the ordinary. Your call.
>
> This is how I see it. If you elected to retract and land wheels up on the
> grass and it turned out to be nothing, you would have felt like a fool.
(And
> fix the bent skin.) If the gear collapsed on your landing, you would have
> been no worse off than otherwise. The runway might have been closed for a
> while. Same outcome. I think you did right.
>
> I once lost complete hydraulic pressure in flight on my straight 500 and
> although I didn't have the luxury of cycling the gear once it dropped into
> locked-down, the landing was without incident. Except, of course, without
> steering I sat like a passenger in the front seat waiting for it to come
to
> stop while it castored off the runway into the rough on the side. I did
have
> the boys bring out the truck and stuff, though, because I believed they
> haven't had any action for a while, and if something had gone wrong, I
might
> have said very unsavory things at a time when praying might have been more
> appropriate. :-)
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
>
>
> >
> > So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high for
> > traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down quickly. I
> > drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then down
> again.
> > Still nothing. [Did the red light come on during the momentary up?
Shit -
> > can't remember. It *was* on before the first attempt to lower.]
> >
> > Cycle the breaker. Nothing. No indication of hydraulic failure, the gear
> > looks down and they "felt" normal going down. I play with the lenses. I
> push
> > to test. Nothing. Hmmm.
> >
> > Low pass? What will that do? I can see the mains. I recall my days as a
> > controller: "11D, gear appears down and in place. Say intentions." I
> figure
> > they could spot a nose gear problem, but the mains are not indicating
down
> > and locked either and I have a better view than the tower does of those.
> >
> > I elect to land without requesting equipment. I'm ready to shut
everything
> > down quickly if necessary. I'll try to make this one nice and easy.
Well,
> > wind was reported as 340 @ 11G22. My attempt to gently place the gear on
> the
> > runway failed. I arrived quite firmly and the gear held. If there were a
> > problem with the gear mechanism, rather than the indicator lights, that
> > landing wouuld have exposed it. Yeah, that's right, I did it that way on
> > purpose.
> >
> > Should I [would you ] have done anything differently?
> >
> > ==========================================
> >
> > As I was rethinking the episode later I was asking myself, "Could the
> lights
> > have been masked by direct sunlight?" I remember trying to shield them
and
> > still seeing nothing. I decide to go to the plane after dark and look
> then.
> >
> > Master on, two bright red vacuum failure lights, but no green ones. I
> cycle
> > the breaker [again]. I sit and ponder. Just then, without me touching
> > anything the left main light flickers on, faintly. Then the right. Then
> the
> > right goes out. Then the left. Then they both come on, faintly, doing
that
> > distant star flicker thing. I adjust the lens on the nose gear light and
> > coax a dim light there as well. I leave the plane, knowing that I will
> > never see these during daylight.
> >
> > Saturday afternoon, preflight. Master on. Three bright green lights.
Jeez!
> > Return to SNA, no problems. On approach: you guessed it. No green
lights.
> > ;>(
> >
> > Bad, cranky breaker? Other ideas?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > ak
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | landing gear lights |
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com> |
Scott:
Thanks much; sounds like a plan. I'll let you know once I'm back in
town and have a chance to check.
ak
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Dickey [mailto:jdickey(at)radictech.com]
Subject: Commander-List: landing gear lights
The gear downlock circuit is pretty simple and since all 3 lights are
failing, it should be pretty easy to fix. You can pretty much rule out a
ground problem since each downlock grounds individually (grounded means
the
light comes on). It is unlikely the ground at each wheel is
intermittent.
The next possible culprit is the 28VDC supply which comes from the
circuit
breaker and goes to the #10 terminal on the junction box inside the
heater
compartment. You should have 28 VDC there all the time. At that point
the 28
VDC splits to supply the mains and nose wheel. Again, since all are
faulty
it is probably the single supply from the breaker rather than each
individual supply after the J box. If the lights aren't working on the
ground, then you're in business. Just remove the heater compartment
cover
and check for voltage at terminal #10. It could be a loose wire or maybe
even the circuit breaker as you suggested. Good Luck.
Scott
N222LE
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/30/04 |
who is the best, fastest and cheapest (pick any one for reply) to overhaul a 500a
hydraulic accumulator? al hoffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gear down, check 3 green, or "How to make your gear lights |
intermittent"
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com> |
Resending...looks like the first one didn't go thru.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Kucheck
Subject: Gear down, check 3 green, or "How to make your gear lights
intermittent"
All:
Here is the upshot on the missing green lights: there is a cannon plug
on the back of the gear indicator box that carries all the wires to the
box. This had worked itself nearly free and was the cause of the erratic
behavior. Once you get to this plug [a feat in itself], it is difficult
to tighten. My mechanic and I suspect that it was never really cinched
down properly when some panel enhancements were made about 2 years ago.
We don't think it will work free again anytime soon. ;>)
ak
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Kucheck
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
Given these early exit polls I'm happy to blame the runway. However, to
sustain the theory we would all have to believe that this bewitched
runway is capable of projecting its curse onto 19R at SNA on the return
trip as well. Maybe it is like an STD: I "got it" from OAK 27R and
"passed it on" to SNA 19R. Let's hope not. ;>)
WCG: 811D is a 1962 500A Colemill. I don't have the shop manual here,
but in talking with my mechanic [who does have it], it appears that the
only common wiring is at the breaker. Each light has an individual
ground. After I return from a business trip [commercial, back of the
bus] on Thursday, I'll take a look and report my findings.
ak
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum [mailto:john(at)vormbaum.com]
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
Hey WAIT A MINUTE! I had a no-nosegear light on an approach to OAK 27R
(in
someone else's 500B...turned out to be a bad switch)! It IS the runway!
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gear down, check 3 green
>
>
> > So, Thursday I'm on approach to 27R into OAK. ATC had kept me high
for
> > >traffic, so now I'm gonna drop the gear and flaps to get down
quickly.
I
> > >drop the gear and get no lights. I cycle the gear back up, then
down
again.>
> > Still nothing.
>
> Alan,
> Nice work!
>
> The problem is with the OAK Ry 27 R ILS. The only gear problem I've
had
in a
> biz jet was on the ILS to that runway.
>
> What model Commander do you operate? That will be a need-to-know for
trouble
> shooting. (Not that I can trouble shoot it ...)
>
> The fine thing about a Commander is that you can see the mains. If
they
look
> down and straight, they are.
>
> If it's day time and your spinners are polished, you can see the nose
gear
> down -- or have the tower tell you, as you so well know.
>
> Since you were able to cycle the gear up and down, any hydraulic
problem
is
> not the case. With a hydraulic problem, getting the gear down is no
problem
> either, but that's another story.
>
> We know it wasn't an "O" ring so must be a micro switch, right? Those
are
> the causes of all airplane trouble. ;-)
>
> Asking for emergency equipment is the tricky call. If you do, you'll
get
> your 15 minutes of fame. If you don't and you do have a problem on
landing,
> you get 15 minutes of fame and tortured by the NTSB and FAA.
>
> I always ask for assistance, get to meet the fire chief, answer a few
> questions for their forms and get thanked for providing them with an
exercise.
>
> (And no, Bilbo, I know what you're thinking. This is not my SOP for
all
> landings. Yet.)
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert C. Bullock" <rcbullock(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/04/04 |
Funny, the next message in my inbox has the title "Gear Up for Summer etc
etc." From TRU/Amazon...
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:08 AM - Gear down, check 3 green, or "How to make your gear
lights intermittent" (Alan Kucheck)
gear down is no
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
It is so good to be flying a Commander again!! I took a short trip
in triple 2 over ti Hillsboro. Met with Swede Ralston (Those of you who were
at our first flyin will remember the TCFG gave Swede pur lifetime achievement
award). He has a Commander 100-180 for sale and the buyer asked me to do an
apprasial. Great weather and the 680E is running great!! Flew a practice
approach to HIO (went pretty poorly) but what a great day to be in the air in a
Commander. Hope all is well in your Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GOOD TO FLY! |
Jimbob,
GREAT news that 222 is flying again! The world is once again back in order,
with the Renegade Commander tearing up the sky!
It looks like I'm going to have 353 Chicken Charlie painted in St. Louis in
late summer; hopefully that means I'll be flying a freshly painted Commander
to the fly-in in KC. I can't wait...can you imagine, the chance to show off
a newly painted Aero Commander to a crowd that might include Bob Hoover?
COOL!
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: GOOD TO FLY!
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> It is so good to be flying a Commander again!! I took a short
trip
> in triple 2 over ti Hillsboro. Met with Swede Ralston (Those of you who
were
> at our first flyin will remember the TCFG gave Swede pur lifetime
achievement
> award). He has a Commander 100-180 for sale and the buyer asked me to do
an
> apprasial. Great weather and the 680E is running great!! Flew a practice
> approach to HIO (went pretty poorly) but what a great day to be in the air
in a
> Commander. Hope all is well in your Commanderland. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GOOD TO FLY! |
In a message dated 5/5/2004 9:28:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
It looks like I'm going to have 353 Chicken Charlie painted in St. Louis in
late summer; hopefully that means I'll be flying a freshly painted Commander
to the fly-in in KC. I can't wait...can you imagine, the chance to show off
a newly painted Aero Commander to a crowd that might include Bob Hoover?
COOL!
YIPPI!! What great news!! What colors?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Disturbing Commander Sighting |
First off, I want to congratulate Capt. JimBob on getting his 680 airborne
again.
You've been very resourceful in coming up with engines, etc., and I salute
your dedication.
I heard an extractor exhaust powered twin fly over my house a few days ago
and paused to realize how rare that sound has become. Don't know if it was a
Commander or a Beech, just as when I hear radials I don't know what it is, but
I'm just happy to hear that sound.
Now, on to what was supposed to be a happy look at living history that turned
out to be a tragedy:
I was at Rockford, Illinois (KRFD) on Tuesday. Flew the Big Boss Man to a
meeting with Rubloff Aviation on the North East corner of the field. To my
thrill I spotted an AC-520 next to (well, a helicopter was in between them) a
Douglas A-26.
From a distance, it was a perfect picture. One of Ted Smith's projects at
Douglas -- and his first production model Commander. The lineage was so
apparent in the tail group ... don't know if any of you have seen an early Commander
next to an A-20 or A-26, but it's like looking at parents and child and
seeing the resemblance.
Anyway, I was shocked when I got up to N2636B. This is an AC-520, s/n
520-148. Both engines are off and the tires are flat. That's not horrible in
itself, but the copilot windshield is bashed in and there are 2" diameter,
pentagon shaped holes punched in the vertical stabilizer and right side aft
fuselage. There are what look like hatchet gashes on the pilot's side.
My first thought was that tornado blown debris hit the airplane, but the
holes I mentioned were all to consistent in shape and size and were on the side
as
well as the top of the aft fuselage.
Someone has viciously harmed this Commander. Does anyone know the story?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GOOD TO FLY! |
Colors??? "Moby the Plane" is supposed to be just pure white, from what my
friends and family say. Although I'm tempted to throw some blue & gray
stripes on there....
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: GOOD TO FLY!
>
> In a message dated 5/5/2004 9:28:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
> It looks like I'm going to have 353 Chicken Charlie painted in St. Louis
in
> late summer; hopefully that means I'll be flying a freshly painted
Commander
> to the fly-in in KC. I can't wait...can you imagine, the chance to show
off
> a newly painted Aero Commander to a crowd that might include Bob Hoover?
> COOL!
> YIPPI!! What great news!! What colors?? jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello all,
As I had some questions by John Tower(organizer get
together) and Dan Dominguez to show up with the
Dreamcatcher N2782B (around the world in 2000)I would
like to inform the Commandergroup.
I'm not able to show up myself, as planning time looks
now, I'm willing to offer, as owner, the Dreamcatcher
to be flown by Chris Wall and Dan Dominguez from my
place(28FL) to Kansas City for the get together on
24-26 september.
This offer I suggested already to Chris and Dan,
however no reaction yet.
Maybe this message works better?
Regards to all Commander Dream Alive Keepers,
Frits Abbing
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRP <mrp37(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GOOD TO FLY! |
John,
Let Scheme Designers (http://www.schemedesigners.com) "Spice" it up for ya!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Disturbing Commander Sighting |
Hell hath no furry like a woman scorned?????
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Disturbing Commander Sighting
>
> First off, I want to congratulate Capt. JimBob on getting his 680 airborne
> again.
>
> You've been very resourceful in coming up with engines, etc., and I salute
> your dedication.
>
> I heard an extractor exhaust powered twin fly over my house a few days ago
> and paused to realize how rare that sound has become. Don't know if it
was a
> Commander or a Beech, just as when I hear radials I don't know what it is,
but
> I'm just happy to hear that sound.
>
> Now, on to what was supposed to be a happy look at living history that
turned
> out to be a tragedy:
>
> I was at Rockford, Illinois (KRFD) on Tuesday. Flew the Big Boss Man to a
> meeting with Rubloff Aviation on the North East corner of the field. To
my
> thrill I spotted an AC-520 next to (well, a helicopter was in between
them) a
> Douglas A-26.
>
> From a distance, it was a perfect picture. One of Ted Smith's projects at
> Douglas -- and his first production model Commander. The lineage was so
> apparent in the tail group ... don't know if any of you have seen an early
Commander
> next to an A-20 or A-26, but it's like looking at parents and child and
> seeing the resemblance.
>
> Anyway, I was shocked when I got up to N2636B. This is an AC-520, s/n
> 520-148. Both engines are off and the tires are flat. That's not
horrible in
> itself, but the copilot windshield is bashed in and there are 2" diameter,
> pentagon shaped holes punched in the vertical stabilizer and right side
aft
> fuselage. There are what look like hatchet gashes on the pilot's side.
>
> My first thought was that tornado blown debris hit the airplane, but the
> holes I mentioned were all to consistent in shape and size and were on the
side as
> well as the top of the aft fuselage.
>
> Someone has viciously harmed this Commander. Does anyone know the story?
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
The details are sketchy but it appears that an 840 Turbo Commander was lost
yesterday on Mexico, 7 lives lost. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JBOBSTER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GOOD TO FLY! |
Scheme Designers gets my vote as well!
Had my 182 painted last April with an existing scheme designers scheme ( got
permission of the ownere and scheme designers, cost was minimal) and has
Sunquest at Paine do the work.
Yes, this still makes me a Commander wannabe....but my 182 will sell well
when I finally step up!
Jim Carroll
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Disturbing Commander Sighting |
Man, that must've been some broad, huh?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Disturbing Commander Sighting
>
> Hell hath no furry like a woman scorned?????
>
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Disturbing Commander Sighting
>
>
> >
> > First off, I want to congratulate Capt. JimBob on getting his 680
airborne
> > again.
> >
> > You've been very resourceful in coming up with engines, etc., and I
salute
> > your dedication.
> >
> > I heard an extractor exhaust powered twin fly over my house a few days
ago
> > and paused to realize how rare that sound has become. Don't know if it
> was a
> > Commander or a Beech, just as when I hear radials I don't know what it
is,
> but
> > I'm just happy to hear that sound.
> >
> > Now, on to what was supposed to be a happy look at living history that
> turned
> > out to be a tragedy:
> >
> > I was at Rockford, Illinois (KRFD) on Tuesday. Flew the Big Boss Man to
a
> > meeting with Rubloff Aviation on the North East corner of the field. To
> my
> > thrill I spotted an AC-520 next to (well, a helicopter was in between
> them) a
> > Douglas A-26.
> >
> > From a distance, it was a perfect picture. One of Ted Smith's projects
at
> > Douglas -- and his first production model Commander. The lineage was
so
> > apparent in the tail group ... don't know if any of you have seen an
early
> Commander
> > next to an A-20 or A-26, but it's like looking at parents and child and
> > seeing the resemblance.
> >
> > Anyway, I was shocked when I got up to N2636B. This is an AC-520, s/n
> > 520-148. Both engines are off and the tires are flat. That's not
> horrible in
> > itself, but the copilot windshield is bashed in and there are 2"
diameter,
> > pentagon shaped holes punched in the vertical stabilizer and right side
> aft
> > fuselage. There are what look like hatchet gashes on the pilot's side.
> >
> > My first thought was that tornado blown debris hit the airplane, but the
> > holes I mentioned were all to consistent in shape and size and were on
the
> side as
> > well as the top of the aft fuselage.
> >
> > Someone has viciously harmed this Commander. Does anyone know the
story?
> >
> > Wing Commander Gordon
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Disturbing Commander Sighting |
I won't tell my ex. where I park my plane.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Disturbing Commander Sighting
>
> Man, that must've been some broad, huh?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Disturbing Commander Sighting
>
>
> >
> > Hell hath no furry like a woman scorned?????
> >
> >
> > bilbo
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Commander-List: Disturbing Commander Sighting
> >
> >
> > >
> > > First off, I want to congratulate Capt. JimBob on getting his 680
> airborne
> > > again.
> > >
> > > You've been very resourceful in coming up with engines, etc., and I
> salute
> > > your dedication.
> > >
> > > I heard an extractor exhaust powered twin fly over my house a few days
> ago
> > > and paused to realize how rare that sound has become. Don't know if
it
> > was a
> > > Commander or a Beech, just as when I hear radials I don't know what it
> is,
> > but
> > > I'm just happy to hear that sound.
> > >
> > > Now, on to what was supposed to be a happy look at living history that
> > turned
> > > out to be a tragedy:
> > >
> > > I was at Rockford, Illinois (KRFD) on Tuesday. Flew the Big Boss Man
to
> a
> > > meeting with Rubloff Aviation on the North East corner of the field.
To
> > my
> > > thrill I spotted an AC-520 next to (well, a helicopter was in between
> > them) a
> > > Douglas A-26.
> > >
> > > From a distance, it was a perfect picture. One of Ted Smith's
projects
> at
> > > Douglas -- and his first production model Commander. The lineage was
> so
> > > apparent in the tail group ... don't know if any of you have seen an
> early
> > Commander
> > > next to an A-20 or A-26, but it's like looking at parents and child
and
> > > seeing the resemblance.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I was shocked when I got up to N2636B. This is an AC-520,
s/n
> > > 520-148. Both engines are off and the tires are flat. That's not
> > horrible in
> > > itself, but the copilot windshield is bashed in and there are 2"
> diameter,
> > > pentagon shaped holes punched in the vertical stabilizer and right
side
> > aft
> > > fuselage. There are what look like hatchet gashes on the pilot's
side.
> > >
> > > My first thought was that tornado blown debris hit the airplane, but
the
> > > holes I mentioned were all to consistent in shape and size and were on
> the
> > side as
> > > well as the top of the aft fuselage.
> > >
> > > Someone has viciously harmed this Commander. Does anyone know the
> story?
> > >
> > > Wing Commander Gordon
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jan" <lydiaxa(at)pobox.sk> |
| Subject: | stick it in a cute blonde tonight! 15 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
Anybody "Commandering" anyplace for Mother's Day?? Sue and I will be
taking triple 2 to Idaho (S67) for a couple of days. Weather looks pretty
good, should be a good trip. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Disturbing Commander Sighting |
Hi Keith,
My records show that N2636B was noted at Rockford as long ago as July 1998 "in
very poor condition and missing quite a few parts".
If anyone can supply a story for the apparent vandalism, I'm all ears!
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Disturbing Commander Sighting
|
| First off, I want to congratulate Capt. JimBob on getting his 680 airborne
| again.
|
| You've been very resourceful in coming up with engines, etc., and I salute
| your dedication.
|
| I heard an extractor exhaust powered twin fly over my house a few days ago
| and paused to realize how rare that sound has become. Don't know if it was a
| Commander or a Beech, just as when I hear radials I don't know what it is, but
| I'm just happy to hear that sound.
|
| Now, on to what was supposed to be a happy look at living history that turned
| out to be a tragedy:
|
| I was at Rockford, Illinois (KRFD) on Tuesday. Flew the Big Boss Man to a
| meeting with Rubloff Aviation on the North East corner of the field. To my
| thrill I spotted an AC-520 next to (well, a helicopter was in between them) a
| Douglas A-26.
|
| From a distance, it was a perfect picture. One of Ted Smith's projects at
| Douglas -- and his first production model Commander. The lineage was so
| apparent in the tail group ... don't know if any of you have seen an early
Commander
| next to an A-20 or A-26, but it's like looking at parents and child and
| seeing the resemblance.
|
| Anyway, I was shocked when I got up to N2636B. This is an AC-520, s/n
| 520-148. Both engines are off and the tires are flat. That's not horrible
in
| itself, but the copilot windshield is bashed in and there are 2" diameter,
| pentagon shaped holes punched in the vertical stabilizer and right side aft
| fuselage. There are what look like hatchet gashes on the pilot's side.
|
| My first thought was that tornado blown debris hit the airplane, but the
| holes I mentioned were all to consistent in shape and size and were on the
side as
| well as the top of the aft fuselage.
|
| Someone has viciously harmed this Commander. Does anyone know the story?
|
| Wing Commander Gordon
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jimmy Rodriguez" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com> |
| Subject: | Last fill-up @$3.02/g. I'm going to start operating LOP! |
Jimmy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Fellow Commander Drivers,
On my 680f(p) we have replaced all four fuel bladders in the right wing and all
four bladders in the left wing, however the large center bladder was last replaced
in 1993. If the center bladder was to start a leak where would it first
become visible? in the headliner, baggage compt., wing roots? Although there
are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there is a faint gasoline smell
in the baggage compartment when I first open the door.
Any suggestions from an experienced person will be greatly appreciated.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
Hi Moe,
I discovered the same faint smell in my baggage compartment several years
ago, and found that the fuel tank fitting on the ceiling of the compartment
was leaking. After some tightening and new safety wire, the leak was stopped
and "voila"...no more smell.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
> Fellow Commander Drivers,
>
> On my 680f(p) we have replaced all four fuel bladders in the right wing
and all four bladders in the left wing, however the large center bladder was
February 24, 2004 - May 10, 2004
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bf