Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bg
May 10, 2004 - July 28, 2004
last replaced in 1993. If the center bladder was to start a leak where
would it first become visible? in the headliner, baggage compt., wing
roots? Although there are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there is
a faint gasoline smell in the baggage compartment when I first open the
door.
>
> Any suggestions from an experienced person will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jimmy Rodriguez" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com> |
Hi Moe,
In our 500B, gasoline smell in the baggage compartment is the rule rather
than the exception.
Jimmy
N107VC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Moe
Subject: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
Fellow Commander Drivers,
On my 680f(p) we have replaced all four fuel bladders in the right wing and
all four bladders in the left wing, however the large center bladder was
last replaced in 1993. If the center bladder was to start a leak where
would it first become visible? in the headliner, baggage compt., wing
roots? Although there are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there is
a faint gasoline smell in the baggage compartment when I first open the
door.
Any suggestions from an experienced person will be greatly appreciated.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
Me too.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmy Rodriguez" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
> Hi Moe,
>
> In our 500B, gasoline smell in the baggage compartment is the rule rather
> than the exception.
>
> Jimmy
> N107VC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Moe
> To: COMMANDER-LIST(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
>
> Fellow Commander Drivers,
>
> On my 680f(p) we have replaced all four fuel bladders in the right wing
and
> all four bladders in the left wing, however the large center bladder was
> last replaced in 1993. If the center bladder was to start a leak where
> would it first become visible? in the headliner, baggage compt., wing
> roots? Although there are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there
is
> a faint gasoline smell in the baggage compartment when I first open the
> door.
>
> Any suggestions from an experienced person will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
You should be able to spot the stain from the fuel. You might look back
behind the curtain, by the radio rack.
Mine was the sump but we won't go there AGAIN :>(
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
> Fellow Commander Drivers,
>
> On my 680f(p) we have replaced all four fuel bladders in the right wing
and all four bladders in the left wing, however the large center bladder was
last replaced in 1993. If the center bladder was to start a leak where
would it first become visible? in the headliner, baggage compt., wing
roots? Although there are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there is
a faint gasoline smell in the baggage compartment when I first open the
door.
>
> Any suggestions from an experienced person will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
In a message dated 10-May-04 10:11:12 Pacific Daylight Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
> Although there are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there is a
> faint gasoline smell in the baggage compartment when I first open the door.
>
Moe,
The center tank, as you know, sits above the baggage compartment ceiling.
Depending on your baggage area interior and trim, the fuel sump drain assembly
may be "boxed" as a small protrusion below the ceiling of the baggage area.
The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I swear you
could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of aircraft and
he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of Avgas and 5606.
A wet baggage area is probably going to be your first tip-off. Wing root
leaks have always been from wing tanks, in my experience, but I admit to only one
center tank leak vs. many wing tank leaks.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
I forgot about the "box" I have never put mine back on since the great sump
battle. I can see mine easily. I think you are right Commander Gordon. It
is the Commander smell.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
> In a message dated 10-May-04 10:11:12 Pacific Daylight Time,
> moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
>
> > Although there are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there is a
> > faint gasoline smell in the baggage compartment when I first open the
door.
> >
>
> Moe,
>
> The center tank, as you know, sits above the baggage compartment ceiling.
> Depending on your baggage area interior and trim, the fuel sump drain
assembly
> may be "boxed" as a small protrusion below the ceiling of the baggage
area.
>
> The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I swear you
> could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of
aircraft and
> he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of Avgas and
5606.
>
> A wet baggage area is probably going to be your first tip-off. Wing root
> leaks have always been from wing tanks, in my experience, but I admit to
only one
> center tank leak vs. many wing tank leaks.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
Dear Commander Drivers,
Thanks for the good advice on the center bladder. After replacing the other
eight bladders, which were of varying age, I have decided not to replace the
center bladder at this time as it has no apparent leaks and was replaced new
(according to the log books and receipts that came from the previous owner)
in 1993.
The requested information about where leaks would appear if the center
bladder started a leak was for future reference.
As a point of reference, about how long should a new bladder last?
Best regards.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
> In a message dated 10-May-04 10:11:12 Pacific Daylight Time,
> moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
>
> > Although there are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there is a
> > faint gasoline smell in the baggage compartment when I first open the
door.
> >
>
> Moe,
>
> The center tank, as you know, sits above the baggage compartment ceiling.
> Depending on your baggage area interior and trim, the fuel sump drain
assembly
> may be "boxed" as a small protrusion below the ceiling of the baggage
area.
>
> The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I swear you
> could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of
aircraft and
> he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of Avgas and
5606.
>
> A wet baggage area is probably going to be your first tip-off. Wing root
> leaks have always been from wing tanks, in my experience, but I admit to
only one
> center tank leak vs. many wing tank leaks.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jimmy Rodriguez" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com> |
Moe,
We recently replaced the cells on the right wing. They were 1978 vintage.
The left wing (same vintage) is still holding up.
Jimmy
N107VC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Moe
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
Dear Commander Drivers,
Thanks for the good advice on the center bladder. After replacing the other
eight bladders, which were of varying age, I have decided not to replace the
center bladder at this time as it has no apparent leaks and was replaced new
(according to the log books and receipts that came from the previous owner)
in 1993.
The requested information about where leaks would appear if the center
bladder started a leak was for future reference.
As a point of reference, about how long should a new bladder last?
Best regards.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
> In a message dated 10-May-04 10:11:12 Pacific Daylight Time,
> moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
>
> > Although there are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there is a
> > faint gasoline smell in the baggage compartment when I first open the
door.
> >
>
> Moe,
>
> The center tank, as you know, sits above the baggage compartment ceiling.
> Depending on your baggage area interior and trim, the fuel sump drain
assembly
> may be "boxed" as a small protrusion below the ceiling of the baggage
area.
>
> The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I swear you
> could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of
aircraft and
> he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of Avgas and
5606.
>
> A wet baggage area is probably going to be your first tip-off. Wing root
> leaks have always been from wing tanks, in my experience, but I admit to
only one
> center tank leak vs. many wing tank leaks.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com> |
| Subject: | RE: baggage compartment |
My 500B has a faint smell of gasoline, especially in the baggage compartment
also. Even though I've had the sump apart and no apparent leakage, it is
still there. However, I did notice the smell increased slightly when one of
my wing tanks started leaking. That and the big blue stain on the fuselage
under the wing tipped me off.
Scott
N222LE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I took my center tank out last year and had it checked and rejuvenated. It
is I believe 44 years old. The main thing you want to do is keep the tanks
full so they do not dry out.
Jim A
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jody and Susan Pillatzki" <jpillatzki(at)702com.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
Just replaced my bladders in 411VV. 1951 , 1952 were the dates of
manufacture stamped on the bladders. Only one of five had been redone and
that one was rebuilt in the 70's.
Jody
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmy Rodriguez" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
> Moe,
>
> We recently replaced the cells on the right wing. They were 1978 vintage.
> The left wing (same vintage) is still holding up.
>
> Jimmy
> N107VC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Moe
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
>
> Dear Commander Drivers,
>
> Thanks for the good advice on the center bladder. After replacing the
other
> eight bladders, which were of varying age, I have decided not to replace
the
> center bladder at this time as it has no apparent leaks and was replaced
new
> (according to the log books and receipts that came from the previous
owner)
> in 1993.
>
> The requested information about where leaks would appear if the center
> bladder started a leak was for future reference.
>
> As a point of reference, about how long should a new bladder last?
>
> Best regards.
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 10-May-04 10:11:12 Pacific Daylight Time,
> > moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
> >
> > > Although there are no visible signs of a leak it seems that there is a
> > > faint gasoline smell in the baggage compartment when I first open the
> door.
> > >
> >
> > Moe,
> >
> > The center tank, as you know, sits above the baggage compartment
ceiling.
> > Depending on your baggage area interior and trim, the fuel sump drain
> assembly
> > may be "boxed" as a small protrusion below the ceiling of the baggage
> area.
> >
> > The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I swear you
> > could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of
> aircraft and
> > he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of Avgas
and
> 5606.
> >
> > A wet baggage area is probably going to be your first tip-off. Wing
root
> > leaks have always been from wing tanks, in my experience, but I admit to
> only one
> > center tank leak vs. many wing tank leaks.
> >
> > Wing Commander Gordon
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net> |
On 5/10/04 17:57, "CloudCraft(at)aol.com" wrote:
> The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I swear you
> could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of aircraft
> and
> he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of Avgas and
> 5606.
If there were a "quotes page" for the Commander list, the above statement
should be on it!
--
Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quotes page? |
All of Wing Commander Gordon's postings should be on a "quotes page"!!
BC (UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Quotes page?
|
| On 5/10/04 17:57, "CloudCraft(at)aol.com" wrote:
|
| > The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I swear you
| > could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of aircraft
| > and
| > he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of Avgas and
| > 5606.
|
| If there were a "quotes page" for the Commander list, the above statement
| should be on it!
|
|
| --
| Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
| St. Louis, Missouri USA
|
| http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quotes page? |
I couldn't resist, now that you guys are talking about the perceptiveness of
a Commander pilot.
When the first VW bug came out, there were many quotables for that (what we
called an excuse for an automobile) car. This one was particularly popular:
This guy was a car fanatic and he could tell you blindfolded everything abou
a car just by hearing it being started. Playing a trick on him, his buddies
took him to a toilet, the kind with the overhead cistern and chain, and
flushed it. He thought for a while and said it was a '57 VW Bug with a bad
misfire.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Quotes page?
>
> On 5/10/04 17:57, "CloudCraft(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> > The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I swear you
> > could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of
aircraft
> > and
> > he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of Avgas
and
> > 5606.
>
> If there were a "quotes page" for the Commander list, the above statement
> should be on it!
>
>
> --
> Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
> St. Louis, Missouri USA
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | NUTHER NICE TRIP |
HI KIDS.
I just got back from my Mothersday trip in triple 2. It was a great
ride. Went over at 15.5 (29 X 2550) and 205kts, returned at 9.5 (31.5 X 2550)
171kts (must have had a tailwind both ways??) that is 188kts two way
average!! Pretty good for an airplane almost as old as me.
The weather was interesting, but the outcome was never in doubt. We were
on top most of the way both directions. The new engine is spectacular.
Nether engine used any oil on the trip and the new engine didn't even leak any,
Yippee!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quotes page? |
> When the first VW bug came out, there were many quotables for that (what
we
> called an excuse for an automobile) car.
My favorite was in Mad Magazine. It had a picture of a Bug floating in
water and the caption read.
"Had Ted Kennedy had one of these, he would be president today"
From the right
bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Quotes page?
>
>
>
> >
> > On 5/10/04 17:57, "CloudCraft(at)aol.com" wrote:
> >
> > > The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I swear
you
> > > could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of
> aircraft
> > > and
> > > he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of Avgas
> and
> > > 5606.
> >
> > If there were a "quotes page" for the Commander list, the above
statement
> > should be on it!
> >
> >
> > --
> > Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
> > St. Louis, Missouri USA
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
I have one question about the "keep them full" philosophy. I can understand
the inside of the bladder being effected by the fuel, but how does the
outside of the bladder know not to crack?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
> I took my center tank out last year and had it checked and rejuvenated. It
> is I believe 44 years old. The main thing you want to do is keep the tanks
> full so they do not dry out.
>
> Jim A
> N444BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
Great question, must be the baby powder.
Also where can you get hold of a inexpensive high volume fuel pump and six
empty drums so that I can unload
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
> I have one question about the "keep them full" philosophy. I can
understand
> the inside of the bladder being effected by the fuel, but how does the
> outside of the bladder know not to crack?
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: FUEL BLADDERS
>
>
>
> >
> > I took my center tank out last year and had it checked and rejuvenated.
It
> > is I believe 44 years old. The main thing you want to do is keep the
tanks
> > full so they do not dry out.
> >
> > Jim A
> > N444BD
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
In a message dated 5/11/2004 2:34:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bowing74(at)earthlink.net writes:
I have one question about the "keep them full" philosophy. I can understand
the inside of the bladder being effected by the fuel, but how does the
outside of the bladder know not to crack?
The outside of the cell is coated with a lacquer like material that protects
it from Ozone and the elements (remember the article in the last FGN about
fuel cells??) The inside cannot be coated, so, we must keep them wet. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL BLADDERS |
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> I have one question about the "keep them full" philosophy. I can understand
> the inside of the bladder being effected by the fuel, but how does the
> outside of the bladder know not to crack?
bilbo,
My understanding of the chemistry is that it's the same thing that
happens with most rubbers and plastics - hydrocarbons tend to react with
the plasticizers which are used to keep the rubber compounds flexible
and sealed. As long as the tanks stay "wet", the plasticizers stay
rubbery, but if allowed to dry out after this reaction has taken place,
they harden, shrink, and begin leaching from the rubber and cloth.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | New Commander Pilot with Questions |
I've just recently started flying an Aero Commander 680 FLP for a company in
Ft. Walton Beach, FL. I suspect many of the people on your web site have years
of experience with this machine. Sooo...I have a few questions.
1. When the plane is in the hangar, any fuel in the right aux tank will
drain into the center tank in a short time. This occurs even if the
fuel selector is set to "OFF". It even occurs in flight in that the
right aux tank is used up faster than the left with the engines at
approximately the same gph fuel burn. Any thoughts on why this
is happening.
2. The pressurization system only gets about 2,000' differential at
10,000 ft altitude. The cabin has been checked for leaks and none
of any consequence were found. The door seal is new and the
seal pump seems to be working. If I just climb, say, to 15,000'
will just the fact that the turbos will be putting out more pressure
cause the differential altitude to increase beyond more than
2,000'. Right now there's no real benefit to having the
pressurization as it doesn't work good enough. This airplane has
the Mr. RPM engine conversion to the IO-720 Lycoming.
Thanks,
Ray Mansfield
hcourier(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Commander Pilot with Questions |
In a message dated 11-May-04 19:13:08 Pacific Daylight Time, hcourier(at)cox.net
writes:
> 2. The pressurization system only gets about 2,000' differential at
> 10,000 ft altitude. The cabin has been checked for leaks and none
> of any consequence were found.
Hello Ray,
What is your tail number and serial number? Sir Barry Collman, Aero
Commander Historian, needs to keep the chain of ownership updated.
As to your pressurization troubles, if you've checked the door seal,
emergency exit seal, window seals, control column seal and rudder peddal seals,
you
need to check the ducts and clamps coming off the pressurization manifolds.
Don't overlook any of the ducting along the way from turbos to cabin.
Also, check to make sure that the inspection / access plates under the carpet
in the cabin are sealed. The next most troublesome leak area would be the
wing roots, which will require dropping the headliner.
You need to run fairly high RPMs on the Mr. RPM conversions because you're
sharing the turbo output with the engines. More mass flow = more air for the
engine and cabin.
If you've checked for leaks -- and I mean really checked for leaks as
described above and you're still not keeping a cabin, it may be due to the cabin
pressure controller, which isn't young by any standard.
The fuel "transfer" is due to a leaking fuel shut-off valve most likely.
There are several of these electric gate valves in the airplane and are used for
hydraulic, fuel and oil (on the original 680FLP) shut offs. R & R the
corresponding valve.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com> |
Bilbo:
It was actually the National Lampoon, 1973. I remember standing in City
Lights Books in San Francisco [quiet like a library], flipping through
that issue and just bursting out with laughter. I pretty much had to
leave after that. Wish I bought the mag.
http://www.marksverylarge.com/booksetc/encyclopedia.html
ak
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bow [mailto:bowing74(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Quotes page?
> When the first VW bug came out, there were many quotables for that
(what
we
> called an excuse for an automobile) car.
My favorite was in Mad Magazine. It had a picture of a Bug floating in
water and the caption read.
"Had Ted Kennedy had one of these, he would be president today"
From the right
bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Quotes page?
>
>
>
> >
> > On 5/10/04 17:57, "CloudCraft(at)aol.com" wrote:
> >
> > > The faint smell of gas is part of the charm of a Commander. I
swear
you
> > > could blind fold any Commander pilot and place him in a variety of
> aircraft
> > > and
> > > he'll know when he's in a Commander. It's the combined scent of
Avgas
> and
> > > 5606.
> >
> > If there were a "quotes page" for the Commander list, the above
statement
> > should be on it!
> >
> >
> > --
> > Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
> > St. Louis, Missouri USA
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
> >
> >
>
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Commander Pilot with Questions |
In a message dated 5/11/2004 7:13:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
hcourier(at)cox.net writes:
1. When the plane is in the hangar, any fuel in the right aux tank will
drain into the center tank in a short time. This occurs even if the
fuel selector is set to "OFF". It even occurs in flight in that the
right aux tank is used up faster than the left with the engines at
approximately the same gph fuel burn. Any thoughts on why this
is happening.
The fuel valve is leaking internally. I allows fuel to transfer. They need
new seals. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Outboard Tank Etiquette |
\
> 1. When the plane is in the hangar, any fuel in the right aux tank will
> drain into the center tank in a short time. This occurs even if the
> fuel selector is set to "OFF". It even occurs in flight in that the
> right aux tank is used up faster than the left with the engines at
> approximately the same gph fuel burn. Any thoughts on why this
> is happening.
>
Just a thought on this topic for all Commander operators with more than 156
gallon fuel systems. That would be Commanders with geared Lycomings and the
MR. RPM converted airframes. OK... And the few Gary Gadberry 223 gallon 500
A/B/U/S series.
When using the outboard tanks, keep in mind that more fuel than is required
is sent to the fuel metering system (either pressure carburetor or Simmonds
fuel injection) and that by-passed fuel returns to the center tank.
If one were to switch to outboard tanks too soon (or as in the case with our
new friend with the leaking fuel shut-off valve), there is no room in the
center tank for this return fuel to go and it dumps overboard.
So when is an OK time to switch to outboard tanks? As soon as you see the
main or center fuel system come off the full peg and begin to indicate anything
less than full, you have room for by-pass fuel. That would be in the 135
gallon indicating range.
There are two schools of thought on using the outboard tanks. Either
one-at-a-time, or, switching to double outboard but with 15 minutes of staggered
time so if you need to run the tanks dry, you don't have two closely occurring
adrenaline rushes to recover from.
The devotees to single outboard tank feeding run that way because in the
event of a total electrical failure, the tank selector valves fail in their
present position and that scenario would leave you with only outboard fuel that
is
NOT useable in all flight attitudes and not all that much fuel to get over the
mountains or ocean with.
Just something to think about, along with meteor strikes and whether you
forgot to run the dishwasher before you left on this trip.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard Tank Etiquette |
Thanks Keith for the "as usual" great words of wisdom. Now, I ve got a
whole new thought process going on about tank switching...thinking about
running the tanks dry (I'd rather not), the possibility of an electrical
failure ( I had one once...turned out that I left the generator switches
off, and ran the battery out of juice), ...oh ya, and turning on the
dishwasher.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Outboard Tank Etiquette
>
> \
>
> > 1. When the plane is in the hangar, any fuel in the right aux tank will
> > drain into the center tank in a short time. This occurs even if
the
> > fuel selector is set to "OFF". It even occurs in flight in that
the
> > right aux tank is used up faster than the left with the engines at
> > approximately the same gph fuel burn. Any thoughts on why this
> > is happening.
> >
>
> Just a thought on this topic for all Commander operators with more than
156
> gallon fuel systems. That would be Commanders with geared Lycomings and
the
> MR. RPM converted airframes. OK... And the few Gary Gadberry 223 gallon
500
> A/B/U/S series.
>
> When using the outboard tanks, keep in mind that more fuel than is
required
> is sent to the fuel metering system (either pressure carburetor or
Simmonds
> fuel injection) and that by-passed fuel returns to the center tank.
>
> If one were to switch to outboard tanks too soon (or as in the case with
our
> new friend with the leaking fuel shut-off valve), there is no room in the
> center tank for this return fuel to go and it dumps overboard.
>
> So when is an OK time to switch to outboard tanks? As soon as you see
the
> main or center fuel system come off the full peg and begin to indicate
anything
> less than full, you have room for by-pass fuel. That would be in the 135
> gallon indicating range.
>
> There are two schools of thought on using the outboard tanks. Either
> one-at-a-time, or, switching to double outboard but with 15 minutes of
staggered
> time so if you need to run the tanks dry, you don't have two closely
occurring
> adrenaline rushes to recover from.
>
> The devotees to single outboard tank feeding run that way because in the
> event of a total electrical failure, the tank selector valves fail in
their
> present position and that scenario would leave you with only outboard fuel
that is
> NOT useable in all flight attitudes and not all that much fuel to get over
the
> mountains or ocean with.
>
> Just something to think about, along with meteor strikes and whether you
> forgot to run the dishwasher before you left on this trip.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Commander Pilot with Questions |
Ray,
Another place that is a leaker in the commanders is the floor and the boot around
the controls to the floor. The floor in a commander is the pressure bulkhead
and not the outter skin. These seals are getting old since the aircraft is
35-40 years old.
You may also want to talk to Dick MacCoon, Mr RPM. www.mrrpm.com.
Tylor Hall
Ray Mansfield wrote:
I've just recently started flying an Aero Commander 680 FLP for a company in Ft.
Walton Beach, FL. I suspect many of the people on your web site have years of
experience with this machine. Sooo...I have a few questions.
1. When the plane is in the hangar, any fuel in the right aux tank will
drain into the center tank in a short time. This occurs even if the
fuel selector is set to "OFF". It even occurs in flight in that the
right aux tank is used up faster than the left with the engines at
approximately the same gph fuel burn. Any thoughts on why this
is happening.
2. The pressurization system only gets about 2,000' differential at
10,000 ft altitude. The cabin has been checked for leaks and none
of any consequence were found. The door seal is new and the
seal pump seems to be working. If I just climb, say, to 15,000'
will just the fact that the turbos will be putting out more pressure
cause the differential altitude to increase beyond more than 2,000'. Right now
there's no real benefit to having the
pressurization as it doesn't work good enough. This airplane has the Mr. RPM engine
conversion to the IO-720 Lycoming.
Thanks,
Ray Mansfield
hcourier(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Commander Pilot with Questions |
Ray,
If you find leaks around the top of the leather boots where they surround
the rudder pedals (as we did on N680RR) you may try just placing a hose
clamp around them. Worked for us! Another place for leaks is below the
floor around the hoses that connect the heater/pres. air outlets down close
to the floor.
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: New Commander Pilot with Questions
>
> Ray,
> Another place that is a leaker in the commanders is the floor and the boot
around the controls to the floor. The floor in a commander is the pressure
bulkhead and not the outter skin. These seals are getting old since the
aircraft is 35-40 years old.
> You may also want to talk to Dick MacCoon, Mr RPM. www.mrrpm.com.
> Tylor Hall
>
>
> Ray Mansfield wrote:
>
> I've just recently started flying an Aero Commander 680 FLP for a company
in Ft. Walton Beach, FL. I suspect many of the people on your web site have
years of experience with this machine. Sooo...I have a few questions.
>
> 1. When the plane is in the hangar, any fuel in the right aux tank will
> drain into the center tank in a short time. This occurs even if the
> fuel selector is set to "OFF". It even occurs in flight in that the
> right aux tank is used up faster than the left with the engines at
> approximately the same gph fuel burn. Any thoughts on why this
> is happening.
>
> 2. The pressurization system only gets about 2,000' differential at
> 10,000 ft altitude. The cabin has been checked for leaks and none
> of any consequence were found. The door seal is new and the
> seal pump seems to be working. If I just climb, say, to 15,000'
> will just the fact that the turbos will be putting out more pressure
> cause the differential altitude to increase beyond more than 2,000'. Right
now there's no real benefit to having the
> pressurization as it doesn't work good enough. This airplane has the Mr.
RPM engine conversion to the IO-720 Lycoming.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> hcourier(at)cox.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard Tank Etiquette |
Randy --
I thought I had the market cornered on the trip without generators. On a Forest
Service flight to pick up another AirBoss during a fire, my radios went dead.
Was in the pattern NORDO wondering what I'd do next to save the world when I noticed
those gen switches.
I started the diswasher this morning and now I'm worried about it flooding the
house while I'm away for the next 4 days. You just can't win.
KG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Steele" <bob.steele(at)kzf.com> |
| Subject: | CONCORDE'S LAST FLIGHT |
CONCORDE'S LAST FLIGHT -
The red planes are Britain's version of the Blue Angels. They
are called the Red Arrows.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimmyr" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com> |
| Subject: | suggestions on fuel computers |
Chicas,
Looking to install a fuel computer to interface with the KLN94. I'm considering
the Shadin Digidata and Insight's TAS 1000. Would like to hear your experiences
and suggestions.
Best Regards,
Jimmy
N107VC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com> |
| Subject: | RE: suggestion on fuel computers |
Hi Jimmy,
I have a Shadin Digiflow-L installed in my 500B and I love it. Although I
don't have it connected to my Garmin 430 yet, it works great. It is always
accurate to within 1 gallon and didn't require any calibration or anything.
It worked like that right out of the box. Also, I was able to get it
approved as a replacement for the old mechanical flow gague as part of the
Merlyn engine conversion. If you are really ambitious, you could try to do
that because otherwise you'll have to keep the original gauge in addition to
the Shadin. Since the Shadin is TSO'd and always displays the flow to each
engine, the FAA allows it to be a direct replacement if you do a field
approval (Shadin has no STC for the Commander). I don't know if the Insight
is STC'd but if it doesn't show flow to each engine continuously, I don't
think you can get it approved as a replacement. In other words, it must
always show the flow to each engine separately and you cannot have the
ability to change that display to some other value. I'll send you a picture
separately.
Scott
N222LE
From: "jimmyr" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com>
Subject: Commander-List: suggestions on fuel computers
Chicas,
Looking to install a fuel computer to interface with the KLN94. I'm
considering
the Shadin Digidata and Insight's TAS 1000. Would like to hear your
experiences
and suggestions.
Best Regards,
Jimmy
N107VC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Commander-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/12/04 |
Thanks for your email. I'm away from ARS headquarters and will respond
as soon as able. If it is urgent, please contact me on my cell phone
(949) 300-5510.
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star 2004
www.allredstar.com
On May 12, 2004, at 11:55 PM, Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-12.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-12.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 05/12/04: 4
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:51 AM - Re: Outboard Tank Etiquette (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
> 2. 08:04 AM - Re: New Commander Pilot with Questions (Tylor Hall)
> 3. 10:15 AM - Re: New Commander Pilot with Questions (Moe)
> 4. 11:34 AM - Re: Outboard Tank Etiquette (CloudCraft(at)aol.com)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Outboard Tank Etiquette
>
>
>
> Thanks Keith for the "as usual" great words of wisdom. Now, I ve got a
> whole new thought process going on about tank switching...thinking
> about
> running the tanks dry (I'd rather not), the possibility of an
> electrical
> failure ( I had one once...turned out that I left the generator
> switches
> off, and ran the battery out of juice), ...oh ya, and turning on the
> dishwasher.
>
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F/N6253X
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: Outboard Tank Etiquette
>
>
>>
>> \
>>
>>> 1. When the plane is in the hangar, any fuel in the right aux tank
>>> will
>>> drain into the center tank in a short time. This occurs even if
> the
>>> fuel selector is set to "OFF". It even occurs in flight in that
> the
>>> right aux tank is used up faster than the left with the engines
>>> at
>>> approximately the same gph fuel burn. Any thoughts on why this
>>> is happening.
>>>
>>
>> Just a thought on this topic for all Commander operators with more
>> than
> 156
>> gallon fuel systems. That would be Commanders with geared Lycomings
>> and
> the
>> MR. RPM converted airframes. OK... And the few Gary Gadberry 223
>> gallon
> 500
>> A/B/U/S series.
>>
>> When using the outboard tanks, keep in mind that more fuel than is
> required
>> is sent to the fuel metering system (either pressure carburetor or
> Simmonds
>> fuel injection) and that by-passed fuel returns to the center tank.
>>
>> If one were to switch to outboard tanks too soon (or as in the case
>> with
> our
>> new friend with the leaking fuel shut-off valve), there is no room in
>> the
>> center tank for this return fuel to go and it dumps overboard.
>>
>> So when is an OK time to switch to outboard tanks? As soon as you
>> see
> the
>> main or center fuel system come off the full peg and begin to indicate
> anything
>> less than full, you have room for by-pass fuel. That would be in the
>> 135
>> gallon indicating range.
>>
>> There are two schools of thought on using the outboard tanks.
>> Either
>> one-at-a-time, or, switching to double outboard but with 15 minutes of
> staggered
>> time so if you need to run the tanks dry, you don't have two closely
> occurring
>> adrenaline rushes to recover from.
>>
>> The devotees to single outboard tank feeding run that way because in
>> the
>> event of a total electrical failure, the tank selector valves fail in
> their
>> present position and that scenario would leave you with only outboard
>> fuel
> that is
>> NOT useable in all flight attitudes and not all that much fuel to get
>> over
> the
>> mountains or ocean with.
>>
>> Just something to think about, along with meteor strikes and whether
>> you
>> forgot to run the dishwasher before you left on this trip.
>>
>> Wing Commander Gordon
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: New Commander Pilot with Questions
>
>
>
> Ray,
> Another place that is a leaker in the commanders is the floor and the
> boot around
> the controls to the floor. The floor in a commander is the pressure
> bulkhead
> and not the outter skin. These seals are getting old since the
> aircraft is
> 35-40 years old.
> You may also want to talk to Dick MacCoon, Mr RPM. www.mrrpm.com.
> Tylor Hall
>
>
> Ray Mansfield wrote:
>
> I've just recently started flying an Aero Commander 680 FLP for a
> company in Ft.
> Walton Beach, FL. I suspect many of the people on your web site have
> years of
> experience with this machine. Sooo...I have a few questions.
>
> 1. When the plane is in the hangar, any fuel in the right aux tank will
> drain into the center tank in a short time. This occurs even if the
> fuel selector is set to "OFF". It even occurs in flight in that the
> right aux tank is used up faster than the left with the engines at
> approximately the same gph fuel burn. Any thoughts on why this
> is happening.
>
> 2. The pressurization system only gets about 2,000' differential at
> 10,000 ft altitude. The cabin has been checked for leaks and none
> of any consequence were found. The door seal is new and the
> seal pump seems to be working. If I just climb, say, to 15,000'
> will just the fact that the turbos will be putting out more pressure
> cause the differential altitude to increase beyond more than 2,000'.
> Right now
> there's no real benefit to having the
> pressurization as it doesn't work good enough. This airplane has the
> Mr. RPM engine
> conversion to the IO-720 Lycoming.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> hcourier(at)cox.net
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: New Commander Pilot with Questions
>
>
> Ray,
>
> If you find leaks around the top of the leather boots where they
> surround
> the rudder pedals (as we did on N680RR) you may try just placing a hose
> clamp around them. Worked for us! Another place for leaks is below
> the
> floor around the hoses that connect the heater/pres. air outlets down
> close
> to the floor.
>
> Moe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: New Commander Pilot with Questions
>
>
>
>>
>> Ray,
>> Another place that is a leaker in the commanders is the floor and the
>> boot
> around the controls to the floor. The floor in a commander is the
> pressure
> bulkhead and not the outter skin. These seals are getting old since
> the
> aircraft is 35-40 years old.
>> You may also want to talk to Dick MacCoon, Mr RPM. www.mrrpm.com.
>> Tylor Hall
>>
>>
>> Ray Mansfield wrote:
>>
>> I've just recently started flying an Aero Commander 680 FLP for a
>> company
> in Ft. Walton Beach, FL. I suspect many of the people on your web site
> have
> years of experience with this machine. Sooo...I have a few questions.
>>
>> 1. When the plane is in the hangar, any fuel in the right aux tank
>> will
>> drain into the center tank in a short time. This occurs even if the
>> fuel selector is set to "OFF". It even occurs in flight in that the
>> right aux tank is used up faster than the left with the engines at
>> approximately the same gph fuel burn. Any thoughts on why this
>> is happening.
>>
>> 2. The pressurization system only gets about 2,000' differential at
>> 10,000 ft altitude. The cabin has been checked for leaks and none
>> of any consequence were found. The door seal is new and the
>> seal pump seems to be working. If I just climb, say, to 15,000'
>> will just the fact that the turbos will be putting out more pressure
>> cause the differential altitude to increase beyond more than 2,000'.
>> Right
> now there's no real benefit to having the
>> pressurization as it doesn't work good enough. This airplane has the
>> Mr.
> RPM engine conversion to the IO-720 Lycoming.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ray Mansfield
>> hcourier(at)cox.net
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Outboard Tank Etiquette
>
>
> Randy --
>
> I thought I had the market cornered on the trip without generators.
> On a Forest
> Service flight to pick up another AirBoss during a fire, my radios
> went dead.
>
> Was in the pattern NORDO wondering what I'd do next to save the world
> when I noticed
> those gen switches.
>
> I started the diswasher this morning and now I'm worried about it
> flooding the
> house while I'm away for the next 4 days. You just can't win.
>
> KG
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/13/04 |
Thanks for your email. I'm away from ARS headquarters and will respond
as soon as able. If it is urgent, please contact me on my cell phone
(949) 300-5510.
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star 2004
www.allredstar.com
On May 13, 2004, at 11:55 PM, Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-13.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-13.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 05/13/04: 1
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 07:10 AM - CONCORDE'S LAST FLIGHT (Robert Steele)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Robert Steele" <bob.steele(at)kzf.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: CONCORDE'S LAST FLIGHT
>
>
>
>
> CONCORDE'S LAST FLIGHT -
> The red planes are Britain's version of the Blue Angels. They
> are called the Red Arrows.
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 05/14/04 |
Thanks for your email. I'm away from ARS headquarters and will respond
as soon as able. If it is urgent, please contact me on my cell phone
(949) 300-5510.
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star 2004
www.allredstar.com
On May 14, 2004, at 11:55 PM, Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-14.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-14.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 05/14/04: 0
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 05/15/04 |
Thanks for your email. I'm away from ARS headquarters and will respond
as soon as able. If it is urgent, please contact me on my cell phone
(949) 300-5510.
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star 2004
www.allredstar.com
On May 15, 2004, at 11:55 PM, Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-15.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-15.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 05/15/04: 1
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:10 PM - suggestions on fuel computers (jimmyr)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "jimmyr" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: suggestions on fuel computers
>
>
> Chicas,
>
> Looking to install a fuel computer to interface with the KLN94. I'm
> considering
> the Shadin Digidata and Insight's TAS 1000. Would like to hear your
> experiences
> and suggestions.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jimmy
> N107VC
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 05/16/04 |
Thanks for your email. I'm away from ARS headquarters and will respond
as soon as able. If it is urgent, please contact me on my cell phone
(949) 300-5510.
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star 2004
www.allredstar.com
On May 16, 2004, at 11:55 PM, Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-16.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> List.2004-05-16.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 05/16/04: 0
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimmyr" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: suggestion on fuel computers |
Hi Scott,
Thanks. That is great information. The TAS 1000 has only one window to show all
functions, so I think I'll go ahead with the Shadin Digidata. BTW, nice looking
panel!
Best Regards,
Jimmy
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:20:00 -0700
>
>Hi Jimmy,
>
>I have a Shadin Digiflow-L installed in my 500B and I love it. Although I
>don't have it connected to my Garmin 430 yet, it works great. It is always
>accurate to within 1 gallon and didn't require any calibration or anything.
>It worked like that right out of the box. Also, I was able to get it
>approved as a replacement for the old mechanical flow gague as part of the
>Merlyn engine conversion. If you are really ambitious, you could try to do
>that because otherwise you'll have to keep the original gauge in addition to
>the Shadin. Since the Shadin is TSO'd and always displays the flow to each
>engine, the FAA allows it to be a direct replacement if you do a field
>approval (Shadin has no STC for the Commander). I don't know if the Insight
>is STC'd but if it doesn't show flow to each engine continuously, I don't
>think you can get it approved as a replacement. In other words, it must
>always show the flow to each engine separately and you cannot have the
>ability to change that display to some other value. I'll send you a picture
>separately.
>
>Scott
>
>N222LE
>
>From: "jimmyr" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com>
>Subject: Commander-List: suggestions on fuel computers
>
>
>Chicas,
>
>Looking to install a fuel computer to interface with the KLN94. I'm
>considering
>the Shadin Digidata and Insight's TAS 1000. Would like to hear your
>experiences
>and suggestions.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jimmy
>N107VC
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com> |
| Subject: | hydraulic accumulator question |
Hey Everyone,
I just topped off my hydraulic accumulator on my 500B according to the
service manual and I have a question. The service manual says to connect a
nitrogen supply of 600 psi to the accumulator and then raise and lower the
flaps to make sure the piston in the accumulator is at the end of its stroke
and the hydraulic pressure is at zero. I did all this expecting the the
flaps to go down and maybe part way up until the piston bottomed out.
However, I was able to lower and raise the flaps twice using just the
pressure from the nitrogen bottle (master, aux hyd pump off). I don't see
how the flaps could cycle twice with just the little volume of hyd fluid
inside the hydraulic accumulator. I was afraid maybe the seals were blown
and I was forcing nitrogen into the system and that was providing the
pressure to raise the flaps. Does anyone have any advice on this? When I
closed the valve on the accumulator my hydraulic pressure was nice and
steady with the engines running so it seems like the accumulator is doing
its thing now but I am still confused.
Scott
N222LE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
There is an aero commander nose cone on ebay, starting bid is $10.00.
dan farmer
6369U
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimmyr" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com> |
| Subject: | Need to chrome the pitot tubes. Any suggestions? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Bob Hoover at AS3 |
Bob Hoover is at the AS3 show in LasVegas. I had the privilage to talk with him
at the Shell Oil booth. He is coming to TCFG meeting. He spoke highly of John
Towner.
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Hoover at AS3 |
That's GREAT news!!! I can't wait!
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Bob Hoover at AS3
>
> Bob Hoover is at the AS3 show in LasVegas. I had the privilage to talk
with him at the Shell Oil booth. He is coming to TCFG meeting. He spoke
highly of John Towner.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Hoover at AS3 |
Truly great news. There is no tellling how long we still would have the
privilege. It makes attendance very important.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Bob Hoover at AS3
>
> That's GREAT news!!! I can't wait!
>
> /John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Bob Hoover at AS3
>
>
>
> >
> > Bob Hoover is at the AS3 show in LasVegas. I had the privilage to talk
> with him at the Shell Oil booth. He is coming to TCFG meeting. He spoke
> highly of John Towner.
> >
> > Tylor Hall
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KevinCoons(at)CAVUCompanies.net" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net> |
| Subject: | Need Yoda's phone number |
Anyone have Yoda's current phone number?
Kevin Coons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimmyr" <jimmyr(at)popsecs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Yoda's phone number |
Hi Kevin,
Try 321-403-8813
Regards,
Jimmy
N107VC
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "KevinCoons(at)CAVUCompanies.net" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:22:07 -0400
>
>Anyone have Yoda's current phone number?
>
>Kevin Coons
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | New to the Group |
Hello,
I'm new to the group, I recently stopped in Hammond, Louisiana to get some
fuel, and when I was leaving, I noticed two abandoned Commanders parked in the
grass there. I looked like a Vintage 560 and a 680. Does anyone have any
info on these two planes.
I check around and all I could find out was that they were purchased by a
gentlemen who apparently died, and no one claimed them.
Thanks,
Bert Berry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New to the Group |
I Purchase both the Aircraft they are (2) 680S in are for sale, AS IS WERE
IS, No Log's
Harry
321 267-3141
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: New to the Group
>
> Hello,
> I'm new to the group, I recently stopped in Hammond, Louisiana to get some
> fuel, and when I was leaving, I noticed two abandoned Commanders parked in
the
> grass there. I looked like a Vintage 560 and a 680. Does anyone have
any
> info on these two planes.
> I check around and all I could find out was that they were purchased by a
> gentlemen who apparently died, and no one claimed them.
> Thanks,
> Bert Berry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Yoda's phone number |
321 403 88134 Cell
510 783-3028
209 982-9203
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: "KevinCoons(at)CAVUCompanies.net" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Need Yoda's phone number
>
> Anyone have Yoda's current phone number?
>
> Kevin Coons
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New to the Group |
Can you tell me what the serial numbers and N-numbers are, please sir?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New to the Group |
Harry,
What model 680 are they. Any parts on them that I could fly down and rip
off (for a price of course) for my 680F(p)?
Moe
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to the Group
>
> I Purchase both the Aircraft they are (2) 680S in are for sale, AS IS WERE
> IS, No Log's
> Harry
> 321 267-3141
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: New to the Group
>
>
> >
> > Hello,
> > I'm new to the group, I recently stopped in Hammond, Louisiana to get
some
> > fuel, and when I was leaving, I noticed two abandoned Commanders parked
in
> the
> > grass there. I looked like a Vintage 560 and a 680. Does anyone have
> any
> > info on these two planes.
> > I check around and all I could find out was that they were purchased by
a
> > gentlemen who apparently died, and no one claimed them.
> > Thanks,
> > Bert Berry
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New to the Group |
Hi Harry,
I too, would like to know both of the aircraft's serial numbers.
Any chance of them ever flying in again, or are they beyond help?
Thanks!
Barry Collman
----- Original Message -----
From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to the Group
|
| I Purchase both the Aircraft they are (2) 680S in are for sale, AS IS WERE
| IS, No Log's
| Harry
| 321 267-3141
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
| To:
| Subject: Commander-List: New to the Group
|
|
| >
| > Hello,
| > I'm new to the group, I recently stopped in Hammond, Louisiana to get some
| > fuel, and when I was leaving, I noticed two abandoned Commanders parked in
| the
| > grass there. I looked like a Vintage 560 and a 680. Does anyone have
| any
| > info on these two planes.
| > I check around and all I could find out was that they were purchased by a
| > gentlemen who apparently died, and no one claimed them.
| > Thanks,
| > Bert Berry
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New to the Group |
Hey Barry,
Any idea about this one, saw it here in Lafayette, LA 03-03-04. Couldn't get over
there to check out the serial number before it let.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New to the Group |
Just as a matter of interst, no plane is beyond help provided enough money
is thrown at it, right?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to the Group
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Harry,
>
> I too, would like to know both of the aircraft's serial numbers.
>
> Any chance of them ever flying in again, or are they beyond help?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Barry Collman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to the Group
>
>
> |
> | I Purchase both the Aircraft they are (2) 680S in are for sale, AS IS
WERE
> | IS, No Log's
> | Harry
> | 321 267-3141
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
> | To:
> | Subject: Commander-List: New to the Group
> |
> |
> | >
> | > Hello,
> | > I'm new to the group, I recently stopped in Hammond, Louisiana to get
some
> | > fuel, and when I was leaving, I noticed two abandoned Commanders
parked in
> | the
> | > grass there. I looked like a Vintage 560 and a 680. Does anyone have
> | any
> | > info on these two planes.
> | > I check around and all I could find out was that they were purchased
by a
> | > gentlemen who apparently died, and no one claimed them.
> | > Thanks,
> | > Bert Berry
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New to the Group |
Yes they will fly again!
N6217B, Serial Number: 680-617-246 and N816B, Serial Number: 680-541-210
Harry
321 267-3141
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to the Group
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Harry,
>
> I too, would like to know both of the aircraft's serial numbers.
>
> Any chance of them ever flying in again, or are they beyond help?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Barry Collman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to the Group
>
>
> |
> | I Purchase both the Aircraft they are (2) 680S in are for sale, AS IS
WERE
> | IS, No Log's
> | Harry
> | 321 267-3141
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
> | To:
> | Subject: Commander-List: New to the Group
> |
> |
> | >
> | > Hello,
> | > I'm new to the group, I recently stopped in Hammond, Louisiana to get
some
> | > fuel, and when I was leaving, I noticed two abandoned Commanders
parked in
> | the
> | > grass there. I looked like a Vintage 560 and a 680. Does anyone have
> | any
> | > info on these two planes.
> | > I check around and all I could find out was that they were purchased
by a
> | > gentlemen who apparently died, and no one claimed them.
> | > Thanks,
> | > Bert Berry
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
Well, after what must have seemed an eternity, I have just mailed the
latest Flight Group News. I offer my deepest apologies for being so tardy in
it's publication, I am already working on the next issue and plan to have it
in the mail in a month or so. That will get me back on schedule. It will
have a great article written by Wing Commander Gordon on Landing Gears for the
flat nacelled airplanes. I will be adding a side bar to cover the older
airplanes.
I have inclosed the registration forms for this years flyin in KC. I
CANNOT TELL YOU HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR YOU TO REGISTER EARLY!!!! Can you
imagine trying to plan an event of this size and not knowing how many will attend??
All indications are that our host, John Towner and Central Air have arranged
to have ROBERT A. (BOB) HOOVER attend!! Can you imagine having the
opportunity to have dinner with BOB HOOVER!!!
Anyway, I am so jazzed I cant stand it. I hope you are to. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bert,
I think you probably attached a file to your email. Attachments are not
'allowed' through the chatlist. This is to help preserve the integrity of the
list and helps to protect it against virus attacks.
If there was an attachment, email me direct and I'll try to help.
Kindest Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to the Group
|
| Hey Barry,
|
| Any idea about this one, saw it here in Lafayette, LA 03-03-04. Couldn't get
over there to check out the serial number before it let.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
moe, if you are looking for parts, I am going to bring everything off of and out
of 2001m to the meeting in sept. if anyone needs anything there we do not plan
on bringing any of it back to fort worth. mason 817-877-4977
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Commander for trade |
If anyone knows of a Commander Owner that may want to trade their Commander into
a Commercial Income Property, Please have them contact:
Robert Lee
435-862-9534
Thank You
Robert Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for trade |
Where is the property??, what Commander are you looking for, piston,
turbine?? Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for trade |
JB, Thank You for responding. Property is in Northern Utah. Want a piston.
Preferably a 500S. But am open for anything. Can send pics and information
if you would like. Would need the fax number and email address you would
like me to use.
Thank You
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for trade
>
> Where is the property??, what Commander are you looking for, piston,
> turbine?? Thanks jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for trade |
In a message dated 5/23/2004 10:24:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sather(at)charter.net writes:
JB, Thank You for responding. Property is in Northern Utah. Want a piston.
Preferably a 500S. But am open for anything. Can send pics and information
I have a guy with a really nice 560F for sale. Maybe trade?? I will be
delivering an airplane the early part of this week but will see what might be
there when I return. Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com> |
| Subject: | hydraulic accumulator |
Hi Everyone,
This is just a follow up on my efforts to get my accumulator charged and
working properly. Now you are all probably thinking, What a loser. This guy
doesnt even know how to service his hydraulic accumulator. So for the one
other Commander owner out there who doesnt know how to do this, here are
the tricks I learned over the last week.
1. Connect 600 psi nitrogen to the accumulator fitting and make sure the
fitting is open by turning the locknut counterclockwise at least 2 turns.
Leave the nitrogen source ON and the regulator set for 600 psi +25 / -0 psi.
2. With all power OFF (engine driven and aux pumps), move the flap handle
from the neutral position up or down VERY slowly until you hear the pressure
bleed down to zero (you can see this happen on the gauge and you can hear it
through the flap valve). It turns out the flap valve has a bleed port which
bleeds pressure just before going to the flap UP or flap DOWN position. If
you move the handle slowly, you will hear pressure relieve and see the gauge
go to zero 1/4" or so before getting to the flap UP or DOWN position. Now
the piston in the accumulator is at the end of its stroke with 600 psi
nitrogen on one side and 0 psi hydraulic fluid on the other.
3. Check your accumulator for internal leaks. Now that you have 600 psi on
the accumulator, you can see and hear if the piston o ring is leaking. If
you hear anything then open the hydraulic fluid reservoir to see if there is
any foam or bubbles. If there is nothing, proceed to step 4. If you see
bubbles and the thing is hissing away, take a deep breath and cancel any
upcoming trips. The good news is that you can get the whole accumulator
overhauled by Higher Planes for just $1800. And since those accumulators
just jump in and out practically by themselves, its a real bargain! But if
you need it done, they have a FAA approved overhaul for that component
(along with other commander stuff like power brake valves).
http://www.higherplanes.com/
4. With the nitrogen still ON, tighten the lock nut on the fitting and
remove the nitrogen fill hose (don't forget to turn off the Nitrogen before
removing the fitting - 600 psi is A LOT of pressure).
I believe this is the first time I've flown the airplane with the
accumulator serviced properly. The hydraulic pressure gauge now barely
moves, even when actuating the flaps, brakes, etc. It used to snap back and
forth during flight and especially when using the system. When serviced
properly, the accumulator does and excellent job of dampening the pressure
in the system, to the point where there is almost no pressure fluctuation at
all. If your gauge moves much at all or if you see any rapid movements,
chances are you have flat or low accumulator pressure.
The other trick to doing this properly is finding a nitrogen source that can
go up to 600 psi. Almost everyone has a N2 bottle with the welder style
regulator but most of those cannot regulate to 600 psi downstream pressure.
I decided to look for the components to buy and I really had to search for a
regulator that could regulate to 600 psi. Most regulators that I saw have
maximum of 350 - 450 psi regulating ranges. They maybe go a little higher
but you're lucky if your mechanic has the proper rig. If you are planning to
build your own rig, plan on spending about $500. Here are sources for
everything you will need:
1) 110 cu foot or larger N2 bottle - any local welding shop. About $200
buys the bottle and refills are cheap.
2) 0 - 1500 psi high pressure regulator. Available from
www.weldingsupply.com. Item # 3200300, about $230.
3) High pressure hose and N2 ground service fitting. Available from Hoses
Unlimited (510-483-8520). They will make up a hose of any length and sell
you the fill fitting as well. The regulator terminates in 1/4 NPT female so
you want a hose with 1/4 NPT male on one end.
So that's it. Anyone who is ever in the LVK area stop by for a free N2 fill.
* Credit goes to the service manager at DownTown Airpark for telling me
about that bleed port.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: hydraulic accumulator |
This article is a keeper, thanks Scott.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com>
Subject: Commander-List: hydraulic accumulator
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is just a follow up on my efforts to get my accumulator charged and
> working properly. Now you are all probably thinking, What a loser. This
guy
> doesnt even know how to service his hydraulic accumulator. So for the one
> other Commander owner out there who doesnt know how to do this, here are
> the tricks I learned over the last week.
>
> 1. Connect 600 psi nitrogen to the accumulator fitting and make sure the
> fitting is open by turning the locknut counterclockwise at least 2 turns.
> Leave the nitrogen source ON and the regulator set for 600 psi +25 / -0
psi.
>
> 2. With all power OFF (engine driven and aux pumps), move the flap handle
> from the neutral position up or down VERY slowly until you hear the
pressure
> bleed down to zero (you can see this happen on the gauge and you can hear
it
> through the flap valve). It turns out the flap valve has a bleed port
which
> bleeds pressure just before going to the flap UP or flap DOWN position. If
> you move the handle slowly, you will hear pressure relieve and see the
gauge
> go to zero 1/4" or so before getting to the flap UP or DOWN position. Now
> the piston in the accumulator is at the end of its stroke with 600 psi
> nitrogen on one side and 0 psi hydraulic fluid on the other.
>
> 3. Check your accumulator for internal leaks. Now that you have 600 psi
on
> the accumulator, you can see and hear if the piston o ring is leaking. If
> you hear anything then open the hydraulic fluid reservoir to see if there
is
> any foam or bubbles. If there is nothing, proceed to step 4. If you see
> bubbles and the thing is hissing away, take a deep breath and cancel any
> upcoming trips. The good news is that you can get the whole accumulator
> overhauled by Higher Planes for just $1800. And since those accumulators
> just jump in and out practically by themselves, its a real bargain! But if
> you need it done, they have a FAA approved overhaul for that component
> (along with other commander stuff like power brake valves).
> http://www.higherplanes.com/
>
> 4. With the nitrogen still ON, tighten the lock nut on the fitting and
> remove the nitrogen fill hose (don't forget to turn off the Nitrogen
before
> removing the fitting - 600 psi is A LOT of pressure).
>
> I believe this is the first time I've flown the airplane with the
> accumulator serviced properly. The hydraulic pressure gauge now barely
> moves, even when actuating the flaps, brakes, etc. It used to snap back
and
> forth during flight and especially when using the system. When serviced
> properly, the accumulator does and excellent job of dampening the pressure
> in the system, to the point where there is almost no pressure fluctuation
at
> all. If your gauge moves much at all or if you see any rapid movements,
> chances are you have flat or low accumulator pressure.
>
> The other trick to doing this properly is finding a nitrogen source that
can
> go up to 600 psi. Almost everyone has a N2 bottle with the welder style
> regulator but most of those cannot regulate to 600 psi downstream
pressure.
> I decided to look for the components to buy and I really had to search for
a
> regulator that could regulate to 600 psi. Most regulators that I saw have
> maximum of 350 - 450 psi regulating ranges. They maybe go a little higher
> but you're lucky if your mechanic has the proper rig. If you are planning
to
> build your own rig, plan on spending about $500. Here are sources for
> everything you will need:
>
> 1) 110 cu foot or larger N2 bottle - any local welding shop. About $200
> buys the bottle and refills are cheap.
> 2) 0 - 1500 psi high pressure regulator. Available from
> www.weldingsupply.com. Item # 3200300, about $230.
> 3) High pressure hose and N2 ground service fitting. Available from Hoses
> Unlimited (510-483-8520). They will make up a hose of any length and sell
> you the fill fitting as well. The regulator terminates in 1/4 NPT female
so
> you want a hose with 1/4 NPT male on one end.
>
> So that's it. Anyone who is ever in the LVK area stop by for a free N2
fill.
>
>
> * Credit goes to the service manager at DownTown Airpark for telling me
> about that bleed port.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | hydraulic accumulator |
Thanks for the excellent article. You included some important details I
was not aware of.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: Scott Dickey <jdickey(at)radictech.com>
> To:
> Date: 5/24/2004 1:09:29 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: hydraulic accumulator
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> This is just a follow up on my efforts to get my accumulator charged and
> working properly. Now you are all probably thinking, What a loser. This
guy
> doesnt even know how to service his hydraulic accumulator. So for the one
> other Commander owner out there who doesnt know how to do this, here are
> the tricks I learned over the last week.
>
> 1. Connect 600 psi nitrogen to the accumulator fitting and make sure the
> fitting is open by turning the locknut counterclockwise at least 2 turns.
> Leave the nitrogen source ON and the regulator set for 600 psi +25 / -0
psi.
>
> 2. With all power OFF (engine driven and aux pumps), move the flap handle
> from the neutral position up or down VERY slowly until you hear the
pressure
> bleed down to zero (you can see this happen on the gauge and you can hear
it
> through the flap valve). It turns out the flap valve has a bleed port
which
> bleeds pressure just before going to the flap UP or flap DOWN position. If
> you move the handle slowly, you will hear pressure relieve and see the
gauge
> go to zero 1/4" or so before getting to the flap UP or DOWN position. Now
> the piston in the accumulator is at the end of its stroke with 600 psi
> nitrogen on one side and 0 psi hydraulic fluid on the other.
>
> 3. Check your accumulator for internal leaks. Now that you have 600 psi
on
> the accumulator, you can see and hear if the piston o ring is leaking. If
> you hear anything then open the hydraulic fluid reservoir to see if there
is
> any foam or bubbles. If there is nothing, proceed to step 4. If you see
> bubbles and the thing is hissing away, take a deep breath and cancel any
> upcoming trips. The good news is that you can get the whole accumulator
> overhauled by Higher Planes for just $1800. And since those accumulators
> just jump in and out practically by themselves, its a real bargain! But if
> you need it done, they have a FAA approved overhaul for that component
> (along with other commander stuff like power brake valves).
> http://www.higherplanes.com/
>
> 4. With the nitrogen still ON, tighten the lock nut on the fitting and
> remove the nitrogen fill hose (don't forget to turn off the Nitrogen
before
> removing the fitting - 600 psi is A LOT of pressure).
>
> I believe this is the first time I've flown the airplane with the
> accumulator serviced properly. The hydraulic pressure gauge now barely
> moves, even when actuating the flaps, brakes, etc. It used to snap back
and
> forth during flight and especially when using the system. When serviced
> properly, the accumulator does and excellent job of dampening the pressure
> in the system, to the point where there is almost no pressure fluctuation
at
> all. If your gauge moves much at all or if you see any rapid movements,
> chances are you have flat or low accumulator pressure.
>
> The other trick to doing this properly is finding a nitrogen source that
can
> go up to 600 psi. Almost everyone has a N2 bottle with the welder style
> regulator but most of those cannot regulate to 600 psi downstream
pressure.
> I decided to look for the components to buy and I really had to search
for a
> regulator that could regulate to 600 psi. Most regulators that I saw have
> maximum of 350 - 450 psi regulating ranges. They maybe go a little higher
> but you're lucky if your mechanic has the proper rig. If you are planning
to
> build your own rig, plan on spending about $500. Here are sources for
> everything you will need:
>
> 1) 110 cu foot or larger N2 bottle - any local welding shop. About $200
> buys the bottle and refills are cheap.
> 2) 0 - 1500 psi high pressure regulator. Available from
> www.weldingsupply.com. Item # 3200300, about $230.
> 3) High pressure hose and N2 ground service fitting. Available from Hoses
> Unlimited (510-483-8520). They will make up a hose of any length and sell
> you the fill fitting as well. The regulator terminates in 1/4 NPT female
so
> you want a hose with 1/4 NPT male on one end.
>
> So that's it. Anyone who is ever in the LVK area stop by for a free N2
fill.
>
>
> * Credit goes to the service manager at DownTown Airpark for telling me
> about that bleed port.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Right Air Charter" <flights(at)sr.co.za> |
| Subject: | Commander for sale |
1.3 X_PRIORITY_HIGH Sent with 'X-Priority' set to high
0.5 X_MSMAIL_PRIORITY_HIGH Sent with 'X-Msmail-Priority' set to high
I have a 500S for sale in South Africa. Anyone interested? I will be able to
ferry it across to wherever, should a sale be possible.
Regards
Brad Watson
Southern Right Air Charter
Cape Town International Airport
P.O. Box 43862
FISH HOEK
7974
flights(at)sr.co.za
Tel +27 21 786-1962
Fax +27 21 786-1457
Cell +27 82 384-0044
www.sr.co.za
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
Nice site, Brad.
I have flown in Pretoria / Rand / Lanseria for many years and had a couple
of trips to your neck of the woods visiting my office in Cape Town. I had a
Twin Comanche and an Aero Commander 500 with which I drilled holes in the
African sky.
Pity the Shrike is not shown on your website. How much do you want for it,
just as a matter of interest and what's the registration?
Nico van Niekerk
Agoura Hills
California
----- Original Message -----
From: "Southern Right Air Charter" <flights(at)sr.co.za>
Subject: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
> I have a 500S for sale in South Africa. Anyone interested? I will be able
to
> ferry it across to wherever, should a sale be possible.
>
> Regards
>
> Brad Watson
>
> Southern Right Air Charter
> Cape Town International Airport
> P.O. Box 43862
> FISH HOEK
> 7974
> flights(at)sr.co.za
> Tel +27 21 786-1962
> Fax +27 21 786-1457
> Cell +27 82 384-0044
> www.sr.co.za
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
Brad, If you are interested in the trade I proposed in the email you saw, I
would be interested. If so I can send information on the shopping center.
Thank You
Bobby Sather
435-862-9534
----- Original Message -----
From: "Southern Right Air Charter" <flights(at)sr.co.za>
Subject: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
> I have a 500S for sale in South Africa. Anyone interested? I will be able
to
> ferry it across to wherever, should a sale be possible.
>
> Regards
>
> Brad Watson
>
> Southern Right Air Charter
> Cape Town International Airport
> P.O. Box 43862
> FISH HOEK
> 7974
> flights(at)sr.co.za
> Tel +27 21 786-1962
> Fax +27 21 786-1457
> Cell +27 82 384-0044
> www.sr.co.za
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Southern Right Air Charter" <flights(at)sr.co.za> |
| Subject: | Commander for sale |
Thanks Bobby, but I would need a straight sale, as I am in South Africa, and
not needing property across there at moment!
Regards Brad
Southern Right Air Charter
Cape Town International Airport
P.O. Box 43862
FISH HOEK
7974
flights(at)sr.co.za
Tel +27 21 786-1962
Fax +27 21 786-1457
Cell +27 82 384-0044
www.sr.co.za
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
Brad,
Could you please let me have a full specification and pictures, plus
indicative price, please.
I am in Australia.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
At 22:11 25/05/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>I have a 500S for sale in South Africa. Anyone interested? I will be able to
>ferry it across to wherever, should a sale be possible.
>
>Regards
>
>Brad Watson
>
>Southern Right Air Charter
>Cape Town International Airport
>P.O. Box 43862
>FISH HOEK
>7974
>flights(at)sr.co.za
>Tel +27 21 786-1962
>Fax +27 21 786-1457
>Cell +27 82 384-0044
>www.sr.co.za
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
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and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Mason,
This might be a good idea for several of us. I have some decent parts (old
radar dome and so forth) that someone might want. I would give them to a
good home.
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com>
Subject: Commander-List:
>
> moe, if you are looking for parts, I am going to bring everything off of
and out of 2001m to the meeting in sept. if anyone needs anything there we
do not plan on bringing any of it back to fort worth. mason 817-877-4977
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
moe, we should sell them for a low price, get some gas money to pay for tri[p
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Mason,
This might be a good idea for several of us. I have some decent parts (old
radar dome and so forth) that someone might want. I would give them to a
good home.
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com<mailto:KAMALA(at)msn.com>>
To: "commander-list" >
Subject: Commander-List:
>
> moe, if you are looking for parts, I am going to bring everything off of
and out of 2001m to the meeting in sept. if anyone needs anything there we
do not plan on bringing any of it back to fort worth. mason 817-877-4977
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | for sale, or trade for commercial property :) |
Gang,
Just a reminder that my 680E is still for sale. Morris Kernick is in
the middle of replacing the landing gear trusses, engine mounts, and
all FWF hoses, lines, etc. When this thing is finished it will be the
most mechanically sound 680E out there, much to the chagrin of my
wallet. Airplane should be good for another 50 years when it's
done....
If anyone is interested, please contact me directly. Price when
finished will be around $125K (or $30K less than I have in it!), but
it's negotiable right now as work is ongoing....
Cheers,
Barry
(949) 300-5510
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
Just a quick thanks to all those who have sent their 2004 flyin
registration. It looks like it will be a great event. For those who haven't,
please send yours today. Earl registration is crucial to a successful event.
Thanks!! jb
PS Thanks to all who have renewed your TCFG membership as well!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ladyrat01(at)aol.com |
I have reported you for spamming me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
Jim I didn't get a Packet !!!!
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: THANKS!
>
> HI KIDS.
> Just a quick thanks to all those who have sent their 2004 flyin
> registration. It looks like it will be a great event. For those who
haven't,
> please send yours today. Earl registration is crucial to a successful
event.
> Thanks!! jb
>
> PS Thanks to all who have renewed your TCFG membership as well!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking to buy |
Any word for me Harry?
Tom Fisher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/29/2004 1:55:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Ladyrat01(at)aol.com writes:
I have reported you for spamming me!
What??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/29/2004 1:56:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
avtec2(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Jim I didn't get a Packet !!!!
Harry
Sorry, I will mail it next week. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Guys,
I was recently asked if I could help with the following and I thought that
through the chatlist was probably the best way.
Ice Shield are a division of BAE Aerospace and make de-ice boots for wings and
props. They are looking for a Commander 560, 560A, 680 with the series 23
de-ice boots to complete an STC. They will provide the boots free of charge but
installation will cost 3-5K and I think will be done in Tipton, Ohio USA. If
anyone is interested in supporting their STC and in need of new boots, the
contact info is:
Willis_Green(at)baeaerospace.com
800-767-6899
www.iceshield.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
jim, I DID NOT RECEIVE A PACKET FOR THE FLY IN . PLEASE COUNT ME IN, ESPECIALLY
IF I CAN GET MY PLANE BACK. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: avtec2(at)bellsouth.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: THANKS!
Jim I didn't get a Packet !!!!
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To:
Subject: Commander-List: THANKS!
>
> HI KIDS.
> Just a quick thanks to all those who have sent their 2004 flyin
> registration. It looks like it will be a great event. For those who
haven't,
> please send yours today. Earl registration is crucial to a successful
event.
> Thanks!! jb
>
> PS Thanks to all who have renewed your TCFG membership as well!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
JIM, I WILL BE THERE. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: Commander-List: THANKS!
HI KIDS.
Just a quick thanks to all those who have sent their 2004 flyin
registration. It looks like it will be a great event. For those who haven't,
please send yours today. Earl registration is crucial to a successful event.
Thanks!! jb
PS Thanks to all who have renewed your TCFG membership as well!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/30/2004 6:12:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, KAMALA(at)msn.com
writes:
JIM, I WILL BE THERE. MASON
Great!! Are you a TCFG member??. I sent the registration forms with the last
newsletter. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
have not rcd news letter. thought I joined tcfg at last meeting in ohio.
MASON CHEVAILLIER, 910 COLLIER ST., FORT WORTH, TX 76102 817-877-4977
TC680FP 2001M
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: THANKS!
In a message dated 5/30/2004 6:12:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, KAMALA(at)msn.com
writes:
JIM, I WILL BE THERE. MASON
Great!! Are you a TCFG member??. I sent the registration forms with the last
newsletter. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray(at)hotmail.com> |
have not rcd news letter. thought I joined tcfg at last meeting in ohio.
Mason, Your not the only one in this boat. "Me Too".
Cap'n Spray
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: THANKS!
>
> have not rcd news letter. thought I joined tcfg at last meeting in ohio.
MASON CHEVAILLIER, 910 COLLIER ST., FORT WORTH, TX 76102 817-877-4977
TC680FP 2001M
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: THANKS!
>
>
> In a message dated 5/30/2004 6:12:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
KAMALA(at)msn.com
> writes:
> JIM, I WILL BE THERE. MASON
> Great!! Are you a TCFG member??. I sent the registration forms with the
last
> newsletter. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Matt Dralle ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Matt Dralle
Subject: WWII Bombers at Livermore California - May 31 2004
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/dralle@matronics.com.05.31.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/31/2004 12:52:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
KAMALA(at)msn.com writes:
have not rcd news letter. thought I joined tcfg at last meeting in ohio.
MASON CHEVAILLIER, 910 COLLIER ST., FORT WORTH, TX 76102 817-877-4977
TC680FP 2001M
Sorry. I will have it in the mail tomorrow. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/31/2004 3:27:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
capnspray(at)hotmail.com writes:
Mason, Your not the only one in this boat. "Me Too".
Cap'n Spray
What is your address?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com |
(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 06/01/2004 08:44:33 AM
Jim, I have not rec'd mine either, however, I am not an official member but
my son and I love Commanders (my dad flew in the prototype and flew 520's &
560's for 10 years). I may have spoken to you (via email) a while back
about getting a registration form. Please send to:
Tom Kinnaird
2900 Englewood Ave.
Louisville, KY 40220
Thanks.
Tom Kinnaird
Commercial Real Estate - Louisville
502-566-5879
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient,
you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is
STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately
contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in
electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray(at)hotmail.com> |
Same as ever.
8 Maddox Lake Road
Summerville, Ga 30747
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: THANKS!
>
> In a message dated 5/31/2004 3:27:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> capnspray(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Mason, Your not the only one in this boat. "Me Too".
>
> Cap'n Spray
> What is your address?? jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 6/1/2004 5:46:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com writes:
Tom Kinnaird
2900 Englewood Ave.
Louisville, KY 40220
Thanks Tom. Your registration form is already on the way. Great to have you
on the list. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Fly-In and Convention |
JB
Just called the K.C. Marriott Downtown at 816.421.6800 and they could not find
a discount listing for us. Please advise as to how we get on the deal.
Moe
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
does anyone have a foldaway/storeaway side table worktable game table for a
commander available for sale? thanks mason kamala(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum |
L26, AC 520, N711YY, Serial Number 520-76
On a recent driving trip through Kansas, I stopped at the Mid America Air Museum in Liberal, KS. www.liberalairmuseum.com.
They have over 100 aircraft on display in a former Beech factory building. One
of them is a AC 520 in army paint. It is open for visitors to get into unlike
most of the aircraft. It is popular with the children since they can get into
to it and sit in the pilot seat. The door is off to allow easy access. It
is in good condition being stored inside. It looks ready to fly except for some
dust.
There is a photo on their web site.
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum |
Hi Tyler,
On my first trip to Oshkosh as co-pilot of a Martin 404, we stopped at
Liberal for the night. The folks at the museum treated us like kings (of
course, they were pretty interested in our 1952 M404). We had blown a tire
on the way out of Grand Junction, CO (after a single engine approach and
landing...that's another story). Took us until 11PM working madly to change
the tire and install the spare while a Kansas thunderstorm threatened to
blown the Martin off the jack...what an experience.
If you all get a chance, stop in Liberal and enjoy their fine museum.
Thanks Tyler for sharing your experience.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum
>
> L26, AC 520, N711YY, Serial Number 520-76
> On a recent driving trip through Kansas, I stopped at the Mid America Air
Museum in Liberal, KS. www.liberalairmuseum.com.
> They have over 100 aircraft on display in a former Beech factory building.
One of them is a AC 520 in army paint. It is open for visitors to get into
unlike most of the aircraft. It is popular with the children since they can
get into to it and sit in the pilot seat. The door is off to allow easy
access. It is in good condition being stored inside. It looks ready to fly
except for some dust.
>
> There is a photo on their web site.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css 2" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum |
Randy,
This won't in any way inhibit our ability to think straight? Especially so
close to the elections. :-)
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum
>
> Hi Tyler,
> On my first trip to Oshkosh as co-pilot of a Martin 404, we stopped at
> Liberal for the night. The folks at the museum treated us like kings (of
> course, they were pretty interested in our 1952 M404). We had blown a
tire
> on the way out of Grand Junction, CO (after a single engine approach and
> landing...that's another story). Took us until 11PM working madly to
change
> the tire and install the spare while a Kansas thunderstorm threatened to
> blown the Martin off the jack...what an experience.
>
> If you all get a chance, stop in Liberal and enjoy their fine museum.
> Thanks Tyler for sharing your experience.
>
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F/N6253X
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
> To: "TCFG"
> Subject: Commander-List: Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum
>
>
>
> >
> > L26, AC 520, N711YY, Serial Number 520-76
> > On a recent driving trip through Kansas, I stopped at the Mid America
Air
> Museum in Liberal, KS. www.liberalairmuseum.com.
> > They have over 100 aircraft on display in a former Beech factory
building.
> One of them is a AC 520 in army paint. It is open for visitors to get
into
> unlike most of the aircraft. It is popular with the children since they
can
> get into to it and sit in the pilot seat. The door is off to allow easy
> access. It is in good condition being stored inside. It looks ready to
fly
> except for some dust.
> >
> > There is a photo on their web site.
> >
> > Tylor Hall
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum |
It's dangerous to be thinking close to an election.
RD
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css 2" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum
>
> Randy,
>
> This won't in any way inhibit our ability to think straight? Especially so
> close to the elections. :-)
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Tyler,
> > On my first trip to Oshkosh as co-pilot of a Martin 404, we stopped at
> > Liberal for the night. The folks at the museum treated us like kings
(of
> > course, they were pretty interested in our 1952 M404). We had blown a
> tire
> > on the way out of Grand Junction, CO (after a single engine approach and
> > landing...that's another story). Took us until 11PM working madly to
> change
> > the tire and install the spare while a Kansas thunderstorm threatened to
> > blown the Martin off the jack...what an experience.
> >
> > If you all get a chance, stop in Liberal and enjoy their fine museum.
> > Thanks Tyler for sharing your experience.
> >
> > Randy Dettmer
> > 680F/N6253X
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
> > To: "TCFG"
> > Subject: Commander-List: Twin Commander at Mid America Air Museum
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > L26, AC 520, N711YY, Serial Number 520-76
> > > On a recent driving trip through Kansas, I stopped at the Mid America
> Air
> > Museum in Liberal, KS. www.liberalairmuseum.com.
> > > They have over 100 aircraft on display in a former Beech factory
> building.
> > One of them is a AC 520 in army paint. It is open for visitors to get
> into
> > unlike most of the aircraft. It is popular with the children since they
> can
> > get into to it and sit in the pilot seat. The door is off to allow easy
> > access. It is in good condition being stored inside. It looks ready to
> fly
> > except for some dust.
> > >
> > > There is a photo on their web site.
> > >
> > > Tylor Hall
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fly-In and Convention |
In a message dated 6/3/2004 9:36:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
ust called the K.C. Marriott Downtown at 816.421.6800 and they could not
find a discount listing for us. Please advise as to how we get on the deal.
I will call them, Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ L. Don Girod ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: L. Don Girod
Subject: 560E Aero Commander
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/dongirod@earthlink.net.06.06.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fly-In and Convention |
JB
Thanks!
Please advise when we are set up there and I will make my reservations.
Best regards,
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly-In and Convention
>
> In a message dated 6/3/2004 9:36:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
>
> ust called the K.C. Marriott Downtown at 816.421.6800 and they could not
> find a discount listing for us. Please advise as to how we get on the
deal.
> I will call them, Thanks jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fly-In and Convention |
In a message dated 6/7/2004 2:37:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
Please advise when we are set up there and I will make my reservations.
Should be Wendsday?? I'll let you know. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | aaccumulator o/h 500A |
anyone have a good source to overhaul a 500a accumulator? what is a fair price?
thanks al hoffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Johnson <entec1(at)pld.com> |
| Subject: | You`ve got 1 VoiceMessage! |
Dear Customer!
You`ve got 1 VoiceMessage from voicemessage.com website!
You can listen your Virtual VoiceMessage at the following link:
http://virt.voicemessage.com/index.listen.php2=35affv
or by clicking the attached link.
Send VoiceMessage! Try our new virtual VoiceMessage Empire!
Best regards: SNAF.Team (R).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: You`ve got 1 VoiceMessage! |
IS THIS A VALID EMAIL?
Tom Fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Johnson" <entec1(at)pld.com>
Subject: Commander-List: You`ve got 1 VoiceMessage!
>
> Dear Customer!
>
> You`ve got 1 VoiceMessage from voicemessage.com website!
> You can listen your Virtual VoiceMessage at the following link:
> http://virt.voicemessage.com/index.listen.php235affv
> or by clicking the attached link.
>
> Send VoiceMessage! Try our new virtual VoiceMessage Empire!
> Best regards: SNAF.Team (R).
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: You`ve got 1 VoiceMessage! |
Tom, I don't think so. If so it was from the commander group, I think the
return address would reflect. CAREFULL how you open.
Bobby Sather
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: You`ve got 1 VoiceMessage!
>
> IS THIS A VALID EMAIL?
>
> Tom Fisher
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Russell Johnson" <entec1(at)pld.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: You`ve got 1 VoiceMessage!
>
>
> >
> > Dear Customer!
> >
> > You`ve got 1 VoiceMessage from voicemessage.com website!
> > You can listen your Virtual VoiceMessage at the following link:
> > http://virt.voicemessage.com/index.listen.php235affv
> > or by clicking the attached link.
> >
> > Send VoiceMessage! Try our new virtual VoiceMessage Empire!
> > Best regards: SNAF.Team (R).
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | accumulator for 500A |
i need an o/h of my accumulator. any suggestions? al hoffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: accumulator for 500A |
I notice you did not get a public response earlier so I had one item from
this past May and I have posted it here in it's entirety.
Don't know if it is going to help you at all but there you go anyway.
Tom F.
(Still looking for a 680FLP)
*******************************************
Hi Everyone,
This is just a follow up on my efforts to get my accumulator charged and
working properly. Now you are all probably thinking, What a loser. This guy
doesnt even know how to service his hydraulic accumulator. So for the one
other Commander owner out there who doesnt know how to do this, here are
the tricks I learned over the last week.
1. Connect 600 psi nitrogen to the accumulator fitting and make sure the
fitting is open by turning the locknut counterclockwise at least 2 turns.
Leave the nitrogen source ON and the regulator set for 600 psi +25 / -0 psi.
2. With all power OFF (engine driven and aux pumps), move the flap handle
from the neutral position up or down VERY slowly until you hear the pressure
bleed down to zero (you can see this happen on the gauge and you can hear it
through the flap valve). It turns out the flap valve has a bleed port which
bleeds pressure just before going to the flap UP or flap DOWN position. If
you move the handle slowly, you will hear pressure relieve and see the gauge
go to zero 1/4" or so before getting to the flap UP or DOWN position. Now
the piston in the accumulator is at the end of its stroke with 600 psi
nitrogen on one side and 0 psi hydraulic fluid on the other.
3. Check your accumulator for internal leaks. Now that you have 600 psi on
the accumulator, you can see and hear if the piston o ring is leaking. If
you hear anything then open the hydraulic fluid reservoir to see if there is
any foam or bubbles. If there is nothing, proceed to step 4. If you see
bubbles and the thing is hissing away, take a deep breath and cancel any
upcoming trips. The good news is that you can get the whole accumulator
overhauled by Higher Planes for just $1800. And since those accumulators
just jump in and out practically by themselves, its a real bargain! But if
you need it done, they have a FAA approved overhaul for that component
(along with other commander stuff like power brake valves).
http://www.higherplanes.com/
4. With the nitrogen still ON, tighten the lock nut on the fitting and
remove the nitrogen fill hose (don't forget to turn off the Nitrogen before
removing the fitting - 600 psi is A LOT of pressure).
I believe this is the first time I've flown the airplane with the
accumulator serviced properly. The hydraulic pressure gauge now barely
moves, even when actuating the flaps, brakes, etc. It used to snap back and
forth during flight and especially when using the system. When serviced
properly, the accumulator does and excellent job of dampening the pressure
in the system, to the point where there is almost no pressure fluctuation at
all. If your gauge moves much at all or if you see any rapid movements,
chances are you have flat or low accumulator pressure.
The other trick to doing this properly is finding a nitrogen source that can
go up to 600 psi. Almost everyone has a N2 bottle with the welder style
regulator but most of those cannot regulate to 600 psi downstream pressure.
I decided to look for the components to buy and I really had to search for a
regulator that could regulate to 600 psi. Most regulators that I saw have
maximum of 350 - 450 psi regulating ranges. They maybe go a little higher
but you're lucky if your mechanic has the proper rig. If you are planning to
build your own rig, plan on spending about $500. Here are sources for
everything you will need:
1) 110 cu foot or larger N2 bottle - any local welding shop. About $200
buys the bottle and refills are cheap.
2) 0 - 1500 psi high pressure regulator. Available from
www.weldingsupply.com. Item # 3200300, about $230.
3) High pressure hose and N2 ground service fitting. Available from Hoses
Unlimited (510-483-8520). They will make up a hose of any length and sell
you the fill fitting as well. The regulator terminates in 1/4 NPT female so
you want a hose with 1/4 NPT male on one end.
So that's it. Anyone who is ever in the LVK area stop by for a free N2 fill.
* Credit goes to the service manager at DownTown Airpark for telling me
about that bleed port.
*******************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: <alh1(at)juno.com>
Subject: Commander-List: accumulator for 500A
>
>
> i need an o/h of my accumulator. any suggestions? al hoffman
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: accumulator for 500A |
What about these guys? http://www.aircraftaccessoriesofok.com/
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <alh1(at)juno.com>
Subject: Commander-List: accumulator for 500A
>
>
> i need an o/h of my accumulator. any suggestions? al hoffman
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: accumulator for 500A |
just fyi,
I've been using a place called "Quality Aircraft Accessories Inc" in
Tulsa OK recently. I've been impressed with the quality of their work
and they seem to have reasonable prices. They do hydraulic pumps,
alternators, fuel pumps, prop governors, turbos, mags, , and most other
accessories. They'll even do a one-day turnaround on many items if
needed. I recently took a prop gov in for overhaul and they had it back
in my hands in 48 hours even though I didn't request a quick turn. They
have a very well equipped and clean shop and appear to have lots of
people with substantial knowledge there.
Their number is: 918-835-6948
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
Hi All
I am having a great deal of fun trying to get a noise certificate from our
local aviation department. Apart from the fact that all the rules apply to
transport cat aircraft. Its like talking to a brick wall. It looks like I am going
to have all the noise testing done.
ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO SHUT A PAIR GSOs UP?
I am open to all sugestions.
I feel that this might help us in the future as almost all countries are
starting to hassel us poor unfortunate folk who happen to drive these geared
wonders.
My thoughts so far involve
1) Perforated stacks inside a slim shroud.
2) Combining three stacks into one muffler
3) Lining the inside of the augmenter tube with a layer of fibre or mesh.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 6/15/2004 8:30:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
RnJThompson(at)aol.com writes:
am open to all sugestions.
I feel that this might help us in the future as almost all countries are
starting to hassel us poor unfortunate folk who happen to drive these geared
wonders.
Contact Dick Ward at he Twin Bonanza Ass (_www.twinbonanza.com_
(http://www.twinbonanza.com) ). There was an article a few issues back about a Twinbo
with mufflers in a Scandinavian County. It wasn't cheap, but I guess it worked.
Or, how about a revolution. I think we need one here as well!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: accumulator for 500A |
Try Commander Aero, ask for Gary Kromer 937-885-5580. They are pretty
simple. Unlike the old Commanders with a diaphragm type accumulator, these have
only a couple of "O" rings. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
RnJThompson(at)aol.com wrote:
> ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO SHUT A PAIR GSOs UP?
Howdy Richard. Good to hear from ya!
I think this is a really good question.
The early piper aztecs had augmenter tubes, but they have a perforated
liner with some sort of fiber material between the inner and outter
liners. That difference eliminates an amazing amount of noise. I
wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't just slide a pair of aztec tubes
right into place on a commander for an easy test. Beyond that, you're
going to have to add a muffler. That's going to be a little tricky to
do without screwing up the cooling of the engine. I'd imagine that
you'll need to combine three into one, then put the muffler across and
exit into the opposite augmenter tube.
Havn't tried that though :)
Good luck!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com> |
Hi Al,
If you are referring to your hydraulic accumulator, then you have a couple
options. I know all this because I just pulled mine and am waiting for an
exchange unit as we speak.
First, you have to make sure you really need a true overhaul because that
will run about $2500. Most accumulator failures are due to the main o ring
seal on the piston wearing out or the bore of the cylinder itself wearing or
both. In my case, the accumulator leaked nitrogen in to the hydraulic system
so I knew the seal was gone. When I pulled it and removed the cylinder part
(the round part where the nitrogen goes) the o ring was shot but the bore
itself was scored and worn through the anodizing. That means overhaul. There
is only one place that has an FAA approved process to recoat the cylinder
and bring it back to new dimensions. They also reseal the rest of it and
test it. Call Bob Thormer at Higher Planes - (936) 494-1717. There is a
Higher Planes overhauled unit on the shelf at Byerly Aviation. Call Ken in
parts.
If the cylinder bore looks good and there is no scoring, you can just
replace the o ring and give that a shot. Chances are it will work OK for a
while. The only problem is that it takes about 8 hours to R&R the
accumulator so if you do it twice you just paid for some of the overhaul.
Give me a call at 408 425 4393 and I can give you more details. Good luck.
Regards,
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS...
I just had a nice conversation with Ken from the FAA. No, really, it was a
nice talk. It seems that the FAA is still operating a 680E in their fleet!
Yep, N50 was purchased new by the feds and is still in their stable. It has
about 7000 TT and is flown about 150 hr. each year. It is currently assigned
to a project and flies daily.
The FAA called because they want to install Cleveland brakes on the
airplane and don't want the dual caliper style. Cleveland and TCAC sent them
to
the TCFG and I will be forwarding the paperwork. Pretty cool stuff.
Also, I apologize for the lateness of the last newsletter. The next
one, July, will be in the mail in a week or so and I think everyone will really
enjoy it. That will put me back on track. There is a great story by Buddy
Plaster about the restoration of his drop dead 560E, new everything!! Also,
Wing Commander Gordon has a piece on the operation of the hydtahaulic system
and emergency procedures for the flat nacelled airplanes. I wrote a companion
piece for the bath tub models. "Sir" Barry Colman has a gerat historc
article. Lots of other stuff.
Next issue (Sept) will have a great article on the better than new
restoration of a 500A form Commander Aero. Hope all of you are planning to attend
the flyin, it is already the best response for this early, should be an
absolute ball!! Hope all is well in your Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
Well, it seems that people "in the know" use a 680E! Even noisy ones
down-under!!
Barry (UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: N50
|
| HI KIDS...
|
| I just had a nice conversation with Ken from the FAA. No, really, it was a
| nice talk. It seems that the FAA is still operating a 680E in their fleet!
| Yep, N50 was purchased new by the feds and is still in their stable. It has
| about 7000 TT and is flown about 150 hr. each year. It is currently assigned
| to a project and flies daily.
| The FAA called because they want to install Cleveland brakes on the
| airplane and don't want the dual caliper style. Cleveland and TCAC sent them
to
| the TCFG and I will be forwarding the paperwork. Pretty cool stuff.
| Also, I apologize for the lateness of the last newsletter. The next
| one, July, will be in the mail in a week or so and I think everyone will
really
| enjoy it. That will put me back on track. There is a great story by Buddy
| Plaster about the restoration of his drop dead 560E, new everything!! Also,
| Wing Commander Gordon has a piece on the operation of the hydtahaulic system
| and emergency procedures for the flat nacelled airplanes. I wrote a
companion
| piece for the bath tub models. "Sir" Barry Colman has a gerat historc
| article. Lots of other stuff.
| Next issue (Sept) will have a great article on the better than new
| restoration of a 500A form Commander Aero. Hope all of you are planning to
attend
| the flyin, it is already the best response for this early, should be an
| absolute ball!! Hope all is well in your Commanderland. jb
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
Hey Barry,
Can you tell me what the serial number was for the 680fl that NASA used I
think it was N801NA or just NASA 801?
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bert,
The 680F(P) NASA had was s/n 1288-131. Originally N6297X, it became NASA801,
then N801NA. Transferred to the US Customs as N10710. It was withdrawn from use
in June 1997 and I think is with US Air Salvage Inc., in Johnson City, TN.
Kindest Regards,
Barry
P.S. I'll be responding to your other list shortly!
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: N50
|
| Hey Barry,
|
| Can you tell me what the serial number was for the 680fl that NASA used I
| think it was N801NA or just NASA 801?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
Thanks Much, as always, your the Man.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Richard,
Please give me a ring, 0408 876 526 or 02 9499 8283.
There should not be a problem for you in issuing a noise certificate under
the Air Navigation Act, yours is not the only aircraft flying with these
engines and props, effectively you have grandfather right, and there are
some other considerations.
However, in Australia, all aircraft have to have a noise certificate, not
just transport cat. aircraft.
I have ongoing discussions under way with DOTARS, some of the low level
minions have been causing trouble.
Bill Hamilton.
At 13:29 16/06/2004, you wrote:
>
>Hi All
>
>I am having a great deal of fun trying to get a noise certificate from our
>local aviation department. Apart from the fact that all the rules apply to
>transport cat aircraft. Its like talking to a brick wall. It looks like I
>am going
>to have all the noise testing done.
>
>ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO SHUT A PAIR GSOs UP?
>
>I am open to all sugestions.
>I feel that this might help us in the future as almost all countries are
>starting to hassel us poor unfortunate folk who happen to drive these geared
>wonders.
>
>My thoughts so far involve
>
>1) Perforated stacks inside a slim shroud.
>2) Combining three stacks into one muffler
>3) Lining the inside of the augmenter tube with a layer of fibre or mesh.
>
>Regards
>Richard
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Services
and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are
not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosure or copying of
this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege
attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of the
mistaken delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
Anyone have any details on what the seminars are going to be for this
years fly-in and who will be speaking?
Any of my old friends going to be there?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRP <mrp37(at)mindspring.com> |
Hey Chris,
Mark Poulin from Carolina. I haven't seen you since "Hillsboro". I tried to make
it the last to years and was not able to. Hopefully this year!?!
Have you ever found anything to replace your Bellanca?
Best Regards,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
MRP wrote:
> Hey Chris,
> Have you ever found anything to replace your Bellanca?
Hey Mark!
Good to hear from you. I didn't know you were still around and on the
list. I made the S.C. flyin, but missed last year. Just a bit too much
trauma and too few $$$ available.
Yes, I did acquire a new project/airplane - take a look at:
http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
and tell me what you think.
cheers
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martini Luc J.R." <martini(at)foxinternet.net> |
Hi
I sure would like to know what you used to get the old paint off your
projects.
While your at it, you might tell me about how you neutralized the Paint
Stripper caustic compounds (I've heard flusing with a lot of water just
doesn't hack it, because residue caught in lap joints etc, will only cause
the New Paint in those areas to deteriorate and probably result in
corrosion.
And, since I haven't asked anything hard so far ..... tell me all about how
NOT to remove paint. I have heard of horror stories resulting from using
wirebrushes (however soft, i.e. fine steel or brass wire brush, particular
rotary types) on ALCLAD Aluminum, which even after subsequently being
Allodined and receiving a good paint job, resulted in severe granular
corrosion setting in over a matter of only a couple of years. I know the
preferred thing to use is ScotchbritePads... Is there anything available to
help get into tight places like an ALUMINUM WIRE BRUSH that could be used
instead of a STEEL wire brush?
EAA had an article on Corrosion a few months back, but I gave my copy away,
and now can't find it anywhere so I can REREAD the advise..... although I
don't think they said much about what using a Steel Brush will do to ALCLAD.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: flyin
>
>
> MRP wrote:
> > Hey Chris,
> > Have you ever found anything to replace your Bellanca?
>
> Hey Mark!
> Good to hear from you. I didn't know you were still around and on the
> list. I made the S.C. flyin, but missed last year. Just a bit too much
> trauma and too few $$$ available.
> Yes, I did acquire a new project/airplane - take a look at:
> http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
> and tell me what you think.
>
> cheers
> chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
Martini Luc J.R. wrote:
> While your at it, you might tell me about how you neutralized the Paint
> Stripper caustic compounds
You are quite correct that the pre-paint prep work is VERY important.
We used traditional chemical stripper for the majority of the airframe.
(with wooden scrapers and scotchbrite pads) The post strip cleanup was
very thourough. Every part was carefully washed with water and a
neutralizer, then washed again with a steam cleaner with special
attention to all the edges, gaps, and rivets. Every seam was "scrubbed"
with nylon bristle toothbrushes. After that, the airframe was scrubbed
with scotchbrite pads to give a good surface for the paint to adhere to.
A final cleaning with MEK was done next.
After that was completed, the airframe was treated with alodine, then
re-washed prior to the epoxy zinc chromate primer. Now that the paint
has fully cured, I'll be going back and "fogging" the interior with
ACF50 which will kill any possibility of corrosion from any chemicals
which may still have residual traces around. ACF50 is the most amazing
stuff - it will even penetrate around rivets and the tightest seams.
I have heard of horror stories resulting from using
> wirebrushes
Correct - use of any metalic brush will embed tiny pieces of the brush
material into the aluminum and absolutely WILL result in damaging
corrosion. Never ever use a metal brush of any type! A nylon bristle
brush is the best choice, but must be used with care as chemical
cleaners such as MEK will disolve the bristles and leave goo on the
airplane.
The whole process isn't perfect, but with sufficient care, the amount of
residual stripper can minimized. You'll note that we had the airplane
substantially disassembled during the process - this was to assure that
we could maximize the cleaning process. Short of drilling apart the
skins and prepping each part at the component level, I think that's the
best that can be done. As an alternative, there are some shops which
are using plastic media blasting to strip old paint. In my opinion,
that is a good technology, but without great care can damage thin
alumiinum skins. The Piper has a lot of pretty thin sheet metal since
it's mostly a non-stressed skin design, so I wasn't comfortable using
that method.
hope this helped
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aerocommander <salm(at)aerocommander.de> |
| Subject: | 1954 520 Aero Commander at Ebay |
Hello group,
May be You hav not yet recognized this fine gal at Ebay.
She looks like to be worth to be kept airworthy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&item=2482527873&rd=1
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&item=2482527873&rd=1>
best regards from germany
Volkmar
Volkmar Salm
Phone +49 7802 980 500
Fax +49 7802 980 954
salm(at)aerocommander.de
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Chris,
We sure missed you last year at the Commander Aero show.
It is highly likely that your "Down-under" pals from Oz will be at Kansas
City Downtown this year; talking a lot about flying Commanders the "right
way up"!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
(still looking for a 560E or maybe a Straight 500)
On 24/6/04 10:15 AM, "Chris Schuermann" wrote:
>
> Anyone have any details on what the seminars are going to be for this
> years fly-in and who will be speaking?
>
> Any of my old friends going to be there?
>
> chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com> |
there is also a process used by texas aerocolor in brady, tx that uses
hydrogenperoxide to strip plane w/o residue to corode. mason
>From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Paint work
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:37:43 -0500
>
>
>Martini Luc J.R. wrote:
> > While your at it, you might tell me about how you neutralized the Paint
> > Stripper caustic compounds
>
>You are quite correct that the pre-paint prep work is VERY important.
>We used traditional chemical stripper for the majority of the airframe.
> (with wooden scrapers and scotchbrite pads) The post strip cleanup was
>very thourough. Every part was carefully washed with water and a
>neutralizer, then washed again with a steam cleaner with special
>attention to all the edges, gaps, and rivets. Every seam was "scrubbed"
>with nylon bristle toothbrushes. After that, the airframe was scrubbed
>with scotchbrite pads to give a good surface for the paint to adhere to.
> A final cleaning with MEK was done next.
>After that was completed, the airframe was treated with alodine, then
>re-washed prior to the epoxy zinc chromate primer. Now that the paint
>has fully cured, I'll be going back and "fogging" the interior with
>ACF50 which will kill any possibility of corrosion from any chemicals
>which may still have residual traces around. ACF50 is the most amazing
>stuff - it will even penetrate around rivets and the tightest seams.
>
> I have heard of horror stories resulting from using
> > wirebrushes
>
>Correct - use of any metalic brush will embed tiny pieces of the brush
>material into the aluminum and absolutely WILL result in damaging
>corrosion. Never ever use a metal brush of any type! A nylon bristle
>brush is the best choice, but must be used with care as chemical
>cleaners such as MEK will disolve the bristles and leave goo on the
>airplane.
>
>The whole process isn't perfect, but with sufficient care, the amount of
>residual stripper can minimized. You'll note that we had the airplane
>substantially disassembled during the process - this was to assure that
>we could maximize the cleaning process. Short of drilling apart the
>skins and prepping each part at the component level, I think that's the
>best that can be done. As an alternative, there are some shops which
>are using plastic media blasting to strip old paint. In my opinion,
>that is a good technology, but without great care can damage thin
>alumiinum skins. The Piper has a lot of pretty thin sheet metal since
>it's mostly a non-stressed skin design, so I wasn't comfortable using
>that method.
>
>hope this helped
>Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css 2" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
What a nice project, Chris. It didn't help the other folks that it was
located next to a grave yard either, huh?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: flyin
>
>
> MRP wrote:
> > Hey Chris,
> > Have you ever found anything to replace your Bellanca?
>
> Hey Mark!
> Good to hear from you. I didn't know you were still around and on the
> list. I made the S.C. flyin, but missed last year. Just a bit too much
> trauma and too few $$$ available.
> Yes, I did acquire a new project/airplane - take a look at:
> http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
> and tell me what you think.
>
> cheers
> chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MRP <mrp37(at)mindspring.com> |
Chris,
All I can say is WOW!, but that doesn't quite cut it. AWESOME job!
The Fly-in forms are on my desk, and will go out today.
Jim, what's the count so far?
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
Chris,
Piper build fine aircraft.
Can not say the same for Cessna
I WOULD RATHER PUSH MY AERO COMMANDER THAN FLY A CESSNA!
Oops
( I own a Cessna)
Enough of that.
Back on the issue of noise.
I have teamed up with one of the formost experts in this field. we have
discovered that there are some glaring deficiencies in the test regimes of your
beloved FAA and others.
I am being forced to test my airplane to ICAO Annex 16 Chapter 6 regulations.
The main problem that has arisen is exactly what configuration the aircaft
has to be in .
The interesting thing is that our noise regulator Airservices have put
forward a set of parameters that they will accept. Our aircraft regulator CASA
has
decreed that the flight profile that the noise boys require is ILLEGAL interms
of Australian legislation. So I am beginning to enjoy all of this. It is
unusual to have the regulator on my side for once.
I will keep you all posted on events.
One thing that will happen is that the aircraft will be tested and certified
to be compliant in accordance with the ICAO rules.
I am going to make this information and all test results availiable to all of
you and to TCAC. So if anyone has this problem in the future you will have up
to date data to fight with.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Folks,
Just adding a little bit to Richard's noise story, in fact what the noise
nazi's want is the aircraft to be operated outside the FAA AFM Operating
Limitations, given that such tests were completed in this fashion, the test
results would be evidence for a charge of reckless and negligent operation
of the aircraft.
"Hi, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you"
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
ZK-DCF
At 08:49 25/06/2004, you wrote:
>
>Chris,
>
>Piper build fine aircraft.
>Can not say the same for Cessna
>
>I WOULD RATHER PUSH MY AERO COMMANDER THAN FLY A CESSNA!
>
>Oops
>( I own a Cessna)
>
>Enough of that.
>Back on the issue of noise.
>I have teamed up with one of the formost experts in this field. we have
>discovered that there are some glaring deficiencies in the test regimes of
>your
>beloved FAA and others.
>I am being forced to test my airplane to ICAO Annex 16 Chapter 6 regulations.
>The main problem that has arisen is exactly what configuration the aircaft
>has to be in .
>The interesting thing is that our noise regulator Airservices have put
>forward a set of parameters that they will accept. Our aircraft regulator
>CASA has
>decreed that the flight profile that the noise boys require is ILLEGAL
>interms
>of Australian legislation. So I am beginning to enjoy all of this. It is
>unusual to have the regulator on my side for once.
>
>I will keep you all posted on events.
>One thing that will happen is that the aircraft will be tested and certified
>to be compliant in accordance with the ICAO rules.
>
>I am going to make this information and all test results availiable to all of
>you and to TCAC. So if anyone has this problem in the future you will have up
>to date data to fight with.
>
>Regards
>Richard
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
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and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 6/24/2004 4:36:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au writes:
"Hi, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you"
AMEN!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 6/24/2004 9:07:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mrp37(at)mindspring.com writes:
The Fly-in forms are on my desk, and will go out today.
Jim, what's the count so far?
We are approaching 30!! This is by far the most I have had registered at
this early time. This should be a GREAT flyin. Hope you can make it!! Is a
Commander in your future?? I know of a guy who might be interested in you
T-210. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 1954 520 Aero Commander at Ebay |
does anyone have a rear bench seat to fit a 680f that alows more entrance
way at door? i think it has a 30 or 45 degree angle on front left corner of
seat by the door. pls adv. tnx mason 2001m
>From: aerocommander <salm(at)aerocommander.de>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: 1954 520 Aero Commander at Ebay
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:11:18 +0200
>
>
>Hello group,
>
>May be You hav not yet recognized this fine gal at Ebay.
>She looks like to be worth to be kept airworthy.
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&item=2482527873&rd=1
><http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&item=2482527873&rd=1>
>
>best regards from germany
>
>Volkmar
>
>
>Volkmar Salm
>Phone +49 7802 980 500
>Fax +49 7802 980 954
>salm(at)aerocommander.de
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1954 520 Aero Commander at Ebay |
I think those were "hand made" from a stock seat.
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 1954 520 Aero Commander at Ebay
>
> does anyone have a rear bench seat to fit a 680f that alows more entrance
> way at door? i think it has a 30 or 45 degree angle on front left corner
of
> seat by the door. pls adv. tnx mason 2001m
>
>
> >From: aerocommander <salm(at)aerocommander.de>
> >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Commander-List: 1954 520 Aero Commander at Ebay
> >Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:11:18 +0200
> >
> >
> >Hello group,
> >
> >May be You hav not yet recognized this fine gal at Ebay.
> >She looks like to be worth to be kept airworthy.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&ite
m=2482527873&rd=1
>
><http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&it
em=2482527873&rd=1>
> >
> >best regards from germany
> >
> >Volkmar
> >
> >
> >Volkmar Salm
> >Phone +49 7802 980 500
> >Fax +49 7802 980 954
> >salm(at)aerocommander.de
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 1954 520 Aero Commander at Ebay |
In a message dated 6/25/2004 11:15:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
I think those were "hand made" from a stock seat.
Yep. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Commander for sale |
A member who is not on the chatlist asked me if I would make a posting
to let everyone know he is selling his 520 Commander.
I know a little about this airplane and would have to say that it is
probably one of the finest bathtub models still in existance. It is one
of the few rare early models that has had all the nacelle trusses
replaced, has MV series props (NO AD), and seems to have had every
single inch of the airplane restored into like-new condition. It's
loaded with expensive upgrades and modifications like Cleveland brakes
,radar, Garmin radio, and a modern autopilot. Having gone through a
Commander restoration myself, I can attest that you wouldn't be able to
replicate this airplane for a LOT more than you could purchase his for.
For more info, contact:
James Lyle
TCFG member
N11L
706-799-2602 Cell
Someone give this beautiful bird a new home!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
In a message dated 6/25/2004 3:16:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
Cleveland brakes
WOW, man do I need to see that paperwork!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Campbell" <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
What I ant to know is how did he get the field approval for the cleveland
brakes, and can I get a copy of it so I can....
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
> A member who is not on the chatlist asked me if I would make a posting
> to let everyone know he is selling his 520 Commander.
>
> I know a little about this airplane and would have to say that it is
> probably one of the finest bathtub models still in existance. It is one
> of the few rare early models that has had all the nacelle trusses
> replaced, has MV series props (NO AD), and seems to have had every
> single inch of the airplane restored into like-new condition. It's
> loaded with expensive upgrades and modifications like Cleveland brakes
> ,radar, Garmin radio, and a modern autopilot. Having gone through a
> Commander restoration myself, I can attest that you wouldn't be able to
> replicate this airplane for a LOT more than you could purchase his for.
>
> For more info, contact:
> James Lyle
> TCFG member
> N11L
> 706-799-2602 Cell
>
>
> Someone give this beautiful bird a new home!
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
I Got The Field approval on the set of Cleveland's on N295V a straight 560
with double Calibers
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
>
> In a message dated 6/25/2004 3:16:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
>
> Cleveland brakes
>
>
> WOW, man do I need to see that paperwork!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
How about the fuel valve Harry?
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Date: 6/26/2004 8:00:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
>
> I Got The Field approval on the set of Cleveland's on N295V a straight 560
> with double Calibers
> Harry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
>
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/25/2004 3:16:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
> >
> > Cleveland brakes
> >
> >
> > WOW, man do I need to see that paperwork!! jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Polito" <28bravo(at)comcast.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Polito
Subject: Fw: Pilots seat
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Polito
Subject: Pilots seat
Greetings to the list.
For sale: One vertically adjustable pilot/co pilot seat. In need of paint and recovering.
Fully functional and complete.
I thought that I would offer this spare pilot's seat to the list before going to
e-pay. I bought it to use in my 500B but never got around to refurbishing it.
I am sure that it will fit in any Commander that has the same seat rail spacing.
This one came from a turbine aircraft. If there is any interest, please
contact me off list directly or call me at home.
Dennis Polito
28bravo(at)comcast.net
650-595-3949
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
Valve or money
will pay with C/C or money order. SORRY Monday
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
> How about the fuel valve Harry?
> Phil
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
> > To:
> > Date: 6/26/2004 8:00:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
> >
> >
> > I Got The Field approval on the set of Cleveland's on N295V a straight
560
> > with double Calibers
> > Harry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 6/25/2004 3:16:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
> > >
> > > Cleveland brakes
> > >
> > >
> > > WOW, man do I need to see that paperwork!! jb
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
Money, any form OK. let me know address to return valve.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Date: 6/27/2004 7:56:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
>
> Valve or money
> will pay with C/C or money order. SORRY Monday
> Harry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
>
>
> >
> > How about the fuel valve Harry?
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
> > > To:
> > > Date: 6/26/2004 8:00:23 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
> > >
> > >
> > > I Got The Field approval on the set of Cleveland's on N295V a straight
> 560
> > > with double Calibers
> > > Harry
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 6/25/2004 3:16:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > > cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
> > > >
> > > > Cleveland brakes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WOW, man do I need to see that paperwork!! jb
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
480 N Williams Ave.
Titusville, FL 32796
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
> Money, any form OK. let me know address to return valve.
> Phil
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
> > To:
> > Date: 6/27/2004 7:56:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
> >
> >
> > Valve or money
> > will pay with C/C or money order. SORRY Monday
> > Harry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
> > To: ;
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > How about the fuel valve Harry?
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Date: 6/26/2004 8:00:23 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I Got The Field approval on the set of Cleveland's on N295V a
straight
> > 560
> > > > with double Calibers
> > > > Harry
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In a message dated 6/25/2004 3:16:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > > > cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > Cleveland brakes
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WOW, man do I need to see that paperwork!! jb
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
This is long but so funny and I thought the guys down under would really get
a chuckle out of this.
Jim Addington
N444BD
An "Aussie" Bush Pilot's First Check Ride, Upon Returning From Vietnam
Hi Mate, I am writing to you, because I need your help to get me bloody
pilots licence back (you keep telling me you got all the right contacts,
well now's your chance to make something happen for me because, mate, I'm
bloody desperate). But first, I'd better tell you what happened during my
last flight review with the CAA Examiner. On the phone, Ron (that's the CAA
dorkhead) seemed a reasonable sort of bloke. He politely reminded me of the
need to do a flight review every two years, since I had been flying Caribou
in Vietnam for a year. He even offered to drive out, have look over my
property and let me operate from my own strip. Naturally I agreed to that.
Anyway, Ron turned up last Wednesday. First up, he said he was a bit
surprised to see the plane on a small strip outside my homestead because the
ALA (Authorized Landing Area) is about a mile away. I explained that because
this strip was so close to the homestead, it was more convenient than that
strip, despite the power lines crossing about midway down the strip (it's
really not a problem to land and takeoff because at the halfway point down
the strip you're usually still on the ground).
For some reason Ron seemed nervous. So, although I had done the preflight
inspection only four days earlier, I decided to do it all over again.
Because he was watching me carefully, I walked around the plane three times
instead of my usual two.
My effort was rewarded because the colour finally returned to Ron's cheeks -
in fact they went a bright red. In view of Ron's obviously better mood, I
told him I was going to combine the test flight with farm work as I had to
deliver three poddy calves from the home paddock to the main herd. After a
bit of a chase I finally caught the calves and threw them into the back of
the ol' Cessna 172. We climbed aboard but Ron started getting' into me about
weight and balance calculations and all that crap. Of course I knew that
sort of thing was a waste of time because, calves like to move around a bit,
particularly when they see themselves 500 feet off the ground! So, its
bloody pointless trying to secure them as you know. However, I did tell Ron
that he shouldn't worry as I always keep the trim wheel set on neutral to
ensure we remain pretty stable at all stages throughout the flight.
Anyway, I started the engine and cleverly minimised the warm-up time by
tramping hard on the brakes and gunning her to 2,500rpm. I then discovered
that Ron has very acute hearing, even though he was wearing a bloody
headset. Through all that noise he detected a metallic rattle and demanded I
account for it. Actually it began about a month ago and was caused by a
screwdriver that fell down a hole in the floor and lodged in the fuel
selector mechanism. The selector can't be moved now, but it doesn't matter
because it's jammed on 'All tanks', so I suppose that's OK.
However, as Ron was obviously a real nit-picker, I blamed the noise on
vibration from a stainless steel thermos flask, which I keep in a beaut
little possie between the windshield and the magnetic compass. My
explanation seemed to relax Ron because he slumped back in the seat and kept
looking up at the cockpit roof. I released the brakes to taxi out but
unfortunately the plane gave a leap and spun to the right, "Hell" I thought,
"not the starboard wheel chock again." The bump jolted Ron back to full
alertness. He looked wildly around just in time to see a rock thrown by the
propwash disappear completely through the windscreen of his brand new
Commodore. "Now I'm really in trouble," I thought.
While Ron was busy ranting about his car, I ignored his requirement that we
taxi to the ALA and instead took off under the power lines. Ron didn't say a
word, at least not until the engine started coughing right at the lift off
point, then he bloody screamed his head off, "Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!"
"Now take it easy, Ron" I told him firmly, "that often happens on takeoff
and there is a good reason for it." I explained patiently that I usually run
the plane on standard MOGAS, but one day I accidentally put in a gallon or
two of kerosene. To compensate for the low octane of the kerosene, I
siphoned in a few gallons off super MOGAS and shook the wings up and down a
few times to mix it up. Since then, the engine has been coughing a bit but
in general it works just fine, if you know how to coax it properly. Anyway,
at this stage Ron seemed to lose all interest in my flight test. He pulled
out some rosary beads, closed his eyes and became lost in prayer (I didn't
think anyone was a Catholic these days). I selected some nice music on the
HF radio to help him relax.
Meanwhile I climbed to my normal cruising altitude of 10,500 feet (I don't
normally put in a flight plan or get the weather because as you know getting
Fax access out here is just a joke and the bloody weather is always 8/8 blue
anyway. But since I had that near miss with a Saab 340, I might have to
change me thinking). Anyhow, on leveling out I noticed some wild camels
heading into my improved pasture. I hate camels and always carry a loaded
.303 clipped inside the door of the Cessna just in case I see any of the
blokes.
We were too high to hit them, but as a matter of principle, I decided to
have a go through the open window. Mate, when I pulled the bloody rifle out,
the effect on Ron was totally electric. As I fired the first shot his neck
lengthened by about six inches and his eyes bulged like a rabbit with myxo.
He really looked as if he had been jabbed with an electric cattle prod on
full power. In fact, Ron's reaction was so distracting that I lost
concentration for a second and the next shot went straight through the port
tyre. Ron was a bit upset about the shooting (probably one of those pinko
animal lovers I guess) so I decided not to tell him about our little problem
with the tyre. Shortly afterwards I located the main herd and decided to do
my fighter pilot trick.
Ron had gone back to praying when, in one smooth sequence, I pulled on full
flap, cut the power and started a sideslip from 10,500 feet down to 500 feet
at 130 knots indicated (the last time I looked anyway) and the little needle
rushing up to the red area on me ASI. What a buzz, mate! About half way
through the descent I looked back in the cabin to see the calves gracefully
suspended in mid air and mooing like crazy. I was going to comment on this
unusual sight but Ron looked a bit green and had rolled himself into the
fetal position and was screamin' his head off. Mate, talk about being in a
bloody zoo. You should've been there, it was so bloody funny!
At about 500 feet I leveled out, but for some reason we continued sinking.
When we reached 50 feet I applied full power but nothin' happened; no noise
no nothin.' Then, luckily, I heard me instructor's voice in me head saying
"carby heat, carby heat," so I pulled carby heat on and that helped quite a
lot, with the engine finally regaining full power. Whew, that was really
close, let me tell you!
Then mate, you'll never guess what happened next! As luck would have it, at
that height we flew into a massive dust cloud caused by the cattle and
suddenly went I.F. bloody R, mate. You would've been bloody proud of me as I
didn't panic once, not once, but I did make a mental note to consider
getting a civil instrument rating as soon as me gyro is repaired (something
I've been meaning to do for a while now).
Suddenly Ron's elongated neck and bulging eyes reappeared. His mouth opened
wide, very wide, but no sound emerged. "Take it easy," I told him. "we'll be
out of this in a minute." Sure enough, about a minute later we emerge; still
straight and level and still at 50 feet. Admittedly I was surprised to
notice that we were upside down, and I kept thinking to myself, "I hope Ron
didn't notice that I had forgotten to set the QNH when we were taxying."
This minor tribulation forced me to fly to a nearby valley in which I had to
do a half roll to get upright again.
By now the main herd had divided into two groups leaving a narrow strip
between them. "Ah!" I thought, "there's an omen. We'll land right there."
Knowing that the tyre problem demanded a slow approach, I flew a couple of
steep turns with full flap. Soon the stall warning horn was blaring so loud
in me ear that I cut its circuit breaker to shut it up, but by then I knew
we were slow enough anyway. I turned steeply onto a 75 foot final and put
her down with a real thud. Strangely enough, I had always thought you could
only ground loop in a tail dragger but, as usual, I was proved wrong again!
Halfway through our third loop Ron at last recovered his sense of humour.
Talk about laugh. I've never seen the likes of it; he couldn't stop. We
finally rolled to a halt and I released the calves, who bolted out of the
aircraft like there was no tomorrow. I then began picking clumps of dry
grass. Between gut wrenching fits of laughter Ron asked what I was doing. I
explained that we had to stuff the port tyre with grass so we could fly back
to the homestead. It was then that Ron really lost the plot and started
running away from the aircraft. Can you believe it?
The last time I saw him he was off into the distance, arms flailing in the
air and still shrieking with laughter. I later heard that he had been
confined to a psychiatric institution - poor bugger!
Anyhow, mate, that's enough about Ron. The problem is I just got a letter
from CASA withdrawing, as they put it, my privileges to fly; until I have
undergone a complete pilot training course again and undertaken another
flight proficiency test.
Now I admit that I made a mistake in taxiing over the wheel chock and not
setting the QNH using strip elevation, but I can't see what else I did that
was so bloody bad that they have to withdraw me flamin' licence. Can you?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.....
I flew triple 2 to Idaho and back a couple of days ago to take my
granddaughter home. It was a great trip, made for a Commander. Over at 11.5
home
at 10.5 Averaged about 171kts over the ground round trip. Fuel burn was
really high. I have a bum Carburetor and it is not leaning correctly. I plan
to have it O/H next month.
On the trip Tripe 2 turned over 400hrs since the "grand renegade"
overhaul!! Yippee!! It has been a great old airplane and I hope to have many
more
hours from her, especially since I now have low time engines. Hope all is
well in your Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
In a message dated 6/27/2004 4:57:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
avtec2(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Valve or money
will pay with C/C or money order. SORRY Monday
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
> How about the fuel valve Harry?
> Phil
HEY GUYS..
How about sending personal emails just to the recipient rather than
sharing it with all of us. Thanks ;-) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
Mr Addington
Wonderful story.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander for sale |
I was shopping for a CC number so I could go on a nice shopping spree
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
>
> In a message dated 6/27/2004 4:57:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> avtec2(at)bellsouth.net writes:
>
> Valve or money
> will pay with C/C or money order. SORRY Monday
> Harry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander for sale
>
>
>
> >
> > How about the fuel valve Harry?
> > Phil
>
>
> HEY GUYS..
>
> How about sending personal emails just to the recipient rather
than
> sharing it with all of us. Thanks ;-) jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Though you folks would like that. I am still laughing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
RnJThompson(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Mr Addington
Wonderful story.
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Twin Commander in the news today |
In the local paper and on www.aero-news.net is a story about the State of New Mexico wanting to sell their 1966 Aero Commander, a 680FLP with Mr RPM engines to buy a used turbo prop for $4,000,000.
The local paper said something about moving money from the road department to the
general fund to buy the new airplane. Something about the legislature not
being in session and want to do the purchase very soon with out their approval.
Some creative accounting? Politics as usual I am told here in NM. I am new
to the state.
The story said that they would have to spend over $225,000 per year on maintenance
on it. I think they are using numbers to include all costs like fuel and
pilot? I wounder how much a $4,000,000 turbo prop is going to cost them to run?
Aero-News got the photo wrong.
Tom, there may be a FLP available soon. NM has owned this aircraft since new
and had the Mr RPM conversion done to it. It has over 7000 hours.
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander in the news today |
Thanks for the 'heads-up' Tylor!
It seems to me that the only candidate is not a 680FLP, but a 680FL. Serial
number is probably 1642-122, N1414S. This is a 1966-build, with the Mr. RPM
conversion.
As Tylor points out, the photo is totally wrong and is probably N808NC a Model
695B (converted from a 695A) with the Aerosensing terrain mapping radar system.
This is very evident in the photo!
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Twin Commander in the news today
|
| In the local paper and on www.aero-news.net is a story about the State of New
Mexico wanting to sell their 1966 Aero Commander, a 680FLP with Mr RPM engines
to buy a used turbo prop for $4,000,000.
| The local paper said something about moving money from the road department to
the general fund to buy the new airplane. Something about the legislature not
being in session and want to do the purchase very soon with out their approval.
Some creative accounting? Politics as usual I am told here in NM. I am new to
the state.
|
| The story said that they would have to spend over $225,000 per year on
maintenance on it. I think they are using numbers to include all costs like
fuel and pilot? I wounder how much a $4,000,000 turbo prop is going to cost
them to run?
|
| Aero-News got the photo wrong.
|
| Tom, there may be a FLP available soon. NM has owned this aircraft since
new and had the Mr RPM conversion done to it. It has over 7000 hours.
|
| Tylor Hall
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Commander in the news today |
Found it, thanks.
I hear it may not be a "P". given the number of FLP's that I have seen on
the market I may have to settle for a non-pressurized machine.
Let me know.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Twin Commander in the news today
>
> In the local paper and on www.aero-news.net is a story about the State of
New Mexico wanting to sell their 1966 Aero Commander, a 680FLP with Mr RPM
engines to buy a used turbo prop for $4,000,000.
> The local paper said something about moving money from the road department
to the general fund to buy the new airplane. Something about the
legislature not being in session and want to do the purchase very soon with
out their approval. Some creative accounting? Politics as usual I am told
here in NM. I am new to the state.
>
> The story said that they would have to spend over $225,000 per year on
maintenance on it. I think they are using numbers to include all costs like
fuel and pilot? I wounder how much a $4,000,000 turbo prop is going to cost
them to run?
>
> Aero-News got the photo wrong.
>
> Tom, there may be a FLP available soon. NM has owned this aircraft
since new and had the Mr RPM conversion done to it. It has over 7000 hours.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Twin Commander in the news today |
Barry,
I spoke to the pilot that flew it for 20 years before retiring. It has two
camera holes in it with a quick change seats that have to come out to use
the camera. The Highway dept seems to use it. I know it is a Mr. RPM from
Dick MacCoon's records. It Sate of New Mexico has a hangar up at Santa Fe.
I will have to go look for it.
Tylor Hall
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Thanks for the 'heads-up' Tylor!
It seems to me that the only candidate is not a 680FLP, but a 680FL. Serial
number is probably 1642-122, N1414S. This is a 1966-build, with the Mr. RPM
conversion.
As Tylor points out, the photo is totally wrong and is probably N808NC a
Model
695B (converted from a 695A) with the Aerosensing terrain mapping radar
system.
This is very evident in the photo!
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Twin Commander in the news today
|
| In the local paper and on www.aero-news.net is a story about the State of
New
Mexico wanting to sell their 1966 Aero Commander, a 680FLP with Mr RPM
engines
to buy a used turbo prop for $4,000,000.
| The local paper said something about moving money from the road department
to
the general fund to buy the new airplane. Something about the legislature
not
being in session and want to do the purchase very soon with out their
approval.
Some creative accounting? Politics as usual I am told here in NM. I am new
to
the state.
|
| The story said that they would have to spend over $225,000 per year on
maintenance on it. I think they are using numbers to include all costs like
fuel and pilot? I wounder how much a $4,000,000 turbo prop is going to cost
them to run?
|
| Aero-News got the photo wrong.
|
| Tom, there may be a FLP available soon. NM has owned this aircraft
since
new and had the Mr RPM conversion done to it. It has over 7000 hours.
|
| Tylor Hall
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
I haven't laughed that hard in years.
Thanks Jim
> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
> To: COMMANDER-LIST
> Date: 6/27/2004 12:36:44 PM
> Subject: Commander-List:
>
>
> This is long but so funny and I thought the guys down under would really
get
> a chuckle out of this.
>
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
>
>
> An "Aussie" Bush Pilot's First Check Ride, Upon Returning From Vietnam
>
> Hi Mate, I am writing to you, because I need your help to get me bloody
> pilots licence back (you keep telling me you got all the right contacts,
> well now's your chance to make something happen for me because, mate, I'm
> bloody desperate). But first, I'd better tell you what happened during my
> last flight review with the CAA Examiner. On the phone, Ron (that's the
CAA
> dorkhead) seemed a reasonable sort of bloke. He politely reminded me of
the
> need to do a flight review every two years, since I had been flying
Caribou
> in Vietnam for a year. He even offered to drive out, have look over my
> property and let me operate from my own strip. Naturally I agreed to that.
>
> Anyway, Ron turned up last Wednesday. First up, he said he was a bit
> surprised to see the plane on a small strip outside my homestead because
the
> ALA (Authorized Landing Area) is about a mile away. I explained that
because
> this strip was so close to the homestead, it was more convenient than that
> strip, despite the power lines crossing about midway down the strip (it's
> really not a problem to land and takeoff because at the halfway point down
> the strip you're usually still on the ground).
>
> For some reason Ron seemed nervous. So, although I had done the preflight
> inspection only four days earlier, I decided to do it all over again.
> Because he was watching me carefully, I walked around the plane three
times
> instead of my usual two.
>
> My effort was rewarded because the colour finally returned to Ron's
cheeks -
> in fact they went a bright red. In view of Ron's obviously better mood, I
> told him I was going to combine the test flight with farm work as I had to
> deliver three poddy calves from the home paddock to the main herd. After a
> bit of a chase I finally caught the calves and threw them into the back of
> the ol' Cessna 172. We climbed aboard but Ron started getting' into me
about
> weight and balance calculations and all that crap. Of course I knew that
> sort of thing was a waste of time because, calves like to move around a
bit,
> particularly when they see themselves 500 feet off the ground! So, its
> bloody pointless trying to secure them as you know. However, I did tell
Ron
> that he shouldn't worry as I always keep the trim wheel set on neutral to
> ensure we remain pretty stable at all stages throughout the flight.
>
> Anyway, I started the engine and cleverly minimised the warm-up time by
> tramping hard on the brakes and gunning her to 2,500rpm. I then discovered
> that Ron has very acute hearing, even though he was wearing a bloody
> headset. Through all that noise he detected a metallic rattle and
demanded I
> account for it. Actually it began about a month ago and was caused by a
> screwdriver that fell down a hole in the floor and lodged in the fuel
> selector mechanism. The selector can't be moved now, but it doesn't matter
> because it's jammed on 'All tanks', so I suppose that's OK.
>
> However, as Ron was obviously a real nit-picker, I blamed the noise on
> vibration from a stainless steel thermos flask, which I keep in a beaut
> little possie between the windshield and the magnetic compass. My
> explanation seemed to relax Ron because he slumped back in the seat and
kept
> looking up at the cockpit roof. I released the brakes to taxi out but
> unfortunately the plane gave a leap and spun to the right, "Hell" I
thought,
> "not the starboard wheel chock again." The bump jolted Ron back to full
> alertness. He looked wildly around just in time to see a rock thrown by
the
> propwash disappear completely through the windscreen of his brand new
> Commodore. "Now I'm really in trouble," I thought.
>
> While Ron was busy ranting about his car, I ignored his requirement that
we
> taxi to the ALA and instead took off under the power lines. Ron didn't
say a
> word, at least not until the engine started coughing right at the lift off
> point, then he bloody screamed his head off, "Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!"
>
> "Now take it easy, Ron" I told him firmly, "that often happens on takeoff
> and there is a good reason for it." I explained patiently that I usually
run
> the plane on standard MOGAS, but one day I accidentally put in a gallon or
> two of kerosene. To compensate for the low octane of the kerosene, I
> siphoned in a few gallons off super MOGAS and shook the wings up and down
a
> few times to mix it up. Since then, the engine has been coughing a bit but
> in general it works just fine, if you know how to coax it properly.
Anyway,
> at this stage Ron seemed to lose all interest in my flight test. He pulled
> out some rosary beads, closed his eyes and became lost in prayer (I didn't
> think anyone was a Catholic these days). I selected some nice music on the
> HF radio to help him relax.
>
> Meanwhile I climbed to my normal cruising altitude of 10,500 feet (I don't
> normally put in a flight plan or get the weather because as you know
getting
> Fax access out here is just a joke and the bloody weather is always 8/8
blue
> anyway. But since I had that near miss with a Saab 340, I might have to
> change me thinking). Anyhow, on leveling out I noticed some wild camels
> heading into my improved pasture. I hate camels and always carry a loaded
> .303 clipped inside the door of the Cessna just in case I see any of the
> blokes.
>
> We were too high to hit them, but as a matter of principle, I decided to
> have a go through the open window. Mate, when I pulled the bloody rifle
out,
> the effect on Ron was totally electric. As I fired the first shot his neck
> lengthened by about six inches and his eyes bulged like a rabbit with
myxo.
> He really looked as if he had been jabbed with an electric cattle prod on
> full power. In fact, Ron's reaction was so distracting that I lost
> concentration for a second and the next shot went straight through the
port
> tyre. Ron was a bit upset about the shooting (probably one of those pinko
> animal lovers I guess) so I decided not to tell him about our little
problem
> with the tyre. Shortly afterwards I located the main herd and decided to
do
> my fighter pilot trick.
>
> Ron had gone back to praying when, in one smooth sequence, I pulled on
full
> flap, cut the power and started a sideslip from 10,500 feet down to 500
feet
> at 130 knots indicated (the last time I looked anyway) and the little
needle
> rushing up to the red area on me ASI. What a buzz, mate! About half way
> through the descent I looked back in the cabin to see the calves
gracefully
> suspended in mid air and mooing like crazy. I was going to comment on this
> unusual sight but Ron looked a bit green and had rolled himself into the
> fetal position and was screamin' his head off. Mate, talk about being in a
> bloody zoo. You should've been there, it was so bloody funny!
>
> At about 500 feet I leveled out, but for some reason we continued sinking.
> When we reached 50 feet I applied full power but nothin' happened; no
noise
> no nothin.' Then, luckily, I heard me instructor's voice in me head saying
> "carby heat, carby heat," so I pulled carby heat on and that helped quite
a
> lot, with the engine finally regaining full power. Whew, that was really
> close, let me tell you!
>
> Then mate, you'll never guess what happened next! As luck would have it,
at
> that height we flew into a massive dust cloud caused by the cattle and
> suddenly went I.F. bloody R, mate. You would've been bloody proud of me
as I
> didn't panic once, not once, but I did make a mental note to consider
> getting a civil instrument rating as soon as me gyro is repaired
(something
> I've been meaning to do for a while now).
>
> Suddenly Ron's elongated neck and bulging eyes reappeared. His mouth
opened
> wide, very wide, but no sound emerged. "Take it easy," I told him. "we'll
be
> out of this in a minute." Sure enough, about a minute later we emerge;
still
> straight and level and still at 50 feet. Admittedly I was surprised to
> notice that we were upside down, and I kept thinking to myself, "I hope
Ron
> didn't notice that I had forgotten to set the QNH when we were taxying."
> This minor tribulation forced me to fly to a nearby valley in which I had
to
> do a half roll to get upright again.
>
> By now the main herd had divided into two groups leaving a narrow strip
> between them. "Ah!" I thought, "there's an omen. We'll land right there."
> Knowing that the tyre problem demanded a slow approach, I flew a couple of
> steep turns with full flap. Soon the stall warning horn was blaring so
loud
> in me ear that I cut its circuit breaker to shut it up, but by then I knew
> we were slow enough anyway. I turned steeply onto a 75 foot final and put
> her down with a real thud. Strangely enough, I had always thought you
could
> only ground loop in a tail dragger but, as usual, I was proved wrong
again!
>
> Halfway through our third loop Ron at last recovered his sense of humour.
> Talk about laugh. I've never seen the likes of it; he couldn't stop. We
> finally rolled to a halt and I released the calves, who bolted out of the
> aircraft like there was no tomorrow. I then began picking clumps of dry
> grass. Between gut wrenching fits of laughter Ron asked what I was doing.
I
> explained that we had to stuff the port tyre with grass so we could fly
back
> to the homestead. It was then that Ron really lost the plot and started
> running away from the aircraft. Can you believe it?
>
> The last time I saw him he was off into the distance, arms flailing in the
> air and still shrieking with laughter. I later heard that he had been
> confined to a psychiatric institution - poor bugger!
>
> Anyhow, mate, that's enough about Ron. The problem is I just got a letter
> from CASA withdrawing, as they put it, my privileges to fly; until I have
> undergone a complete pilot training course again and undertaken another
> flight proficiency test.
>
> Now I admit that I made a mistake in taxiing over the wheel chock and not
> setting the QNH using strip elevation, but I can't see what else I did
that
> was so bloody bad that they have to withdraw me flamin' licence. Can you?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
Just thought I would let everybody know that the summer newsletter
is in the mail (YEA!!). This put me back on schedule and I thank all of you
for you patience. This edition has a great story from Buddy Plaster about the
overhaul of his 560E as well as an important article from Wing Commander
Keith Gordon on the operation of our hydraulic system. I asked Keith the
contribute this after the discussion some weeks back here on the list. I think
it
will be very insightful. There is also a piece from our amazing historian,
Barry Collman that you will find interesting.
Next issue will be on time in Sept and will have an article by John
Bosch at Commander Aero on the restoration of a "better than new" 500A Commander.
The reservations for this years flyin have been great!! Well ahead of
any other flyin. Now is the time to sign up if you can make it. We are
putting a great speaker list together and there is always a great feeling of
camaraderie in the air. We will have an award dinner on Sat eve. So far Mr.
Hoover is still planning to attend. Where else could you have the opportunity
to
"break bread" with such an aviation legend!! If you are a TCFG member you
have received you registration form, if not contact me and I will send one.
Hope all is well in your world. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
To all our American friends.
HAPPY 4th of JULY.
Regards
Richard & Russell
The Boys From OZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
Thanks, Mates!
Quite kind of you. But don't forget to wish Sir Barry Collman a Happy 4th
as well.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere.=A0 Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Campbell" <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
Lets not forget that the congress declared independence on 4 July 1776, and
we actually got it on 20 Aug 1781 (at the end of the battle of yorktown).
From declaration to actual fact was 5 hard years.
Sometimes things that are important take a while. Nothing worthwhile comes
easily.
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: 4 th JULY
>
> Thanks, Mates!
>
> Quite kind of you. But don't forget to wish Sir Barry Collman a Happy
4th
> as well.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere.=A0 Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
There is a good chance that without the help of our friends from "down
under" there would be no celebration.
Cheers
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <RnJThompson(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Re: 4 th JULY
>
> To all our American friends.
>
> HAPPY 4th of JULY.
>
> Regards
> Richard & Russell
> The Boys From OZ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
This is true. We couldn't have had it with out Sir Barry's ancestors.
:>)bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: 4 th JULY
>
> Thanks, Mates!
>
> Quite kind of you. But don't forget to wish Sir Barry Collman a Happy
4th
> as well.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere.=A0 Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Amen! Especially things like freedom and freedom of speech.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Campbell" <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: 4 th JULY
>
> Lets not forget that the congress declared independence on 4 July 1776,
and
> we actually got it on 20 Aug 1781 (at the end of the battle of yorktown).
> From declaration to actual fact was 5 hard years.
>
> Sometimes things that are important take a while. Nothing worthwhile comes
> easily.
>
> Bruce Campbell
> AC52 N4186B
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: 4 th JULY
>
>
> >
> > Thanks, Mates!
> >
> > Quite kind of you. But don't forget to wish Sir Barry Collman a
Happy
> 4th
> > as well.
> >
> > Wing Commander Gordon
> >
> > Life is not simple anywhere.=A0 Probably less so elsewhere.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | COMMANDERING ON THE 4TH |
HI KIDS.
Did anybody "Commander" anywhere over the 4th?? Sue and I took 222
to Corde alane Idaho where we rented a 24' motorhome and spent the 4th in
Clark Fork Id. It was a good time. Sues Brother is the mayor (no worry about
parking tickets) and they have no ordnance against fireworks, anything goes!!
The before and after show was as good as the main event. There must have
been 10K in personal fireworks shot off. Every kind of firecracker, M80 (1/2
sticks of dynamite) and every Arial display imaginable.
We flew over at 11.5 with ripping tailwinds. 55%, 30" X 2550rpm, 197kts
over the ground. Came home a 10.5, 32" X 2600 = 172kts ground speed. The
new engine is spectacular!! I fixed the carb problem with a simple adjustment
(more about that later) so the fuel burn is once again normal (33- 35gph)
Also, got the biplane annuled (almost) and will have it back in the
water this week. I am then planning to leave on the 11th for San Juan, PR to
do
an annual on Jimmy Rodreguiz 500B, S/N 1. Sue will join me there and be
spending her days shopping while I slave away on the airplane (in an
air-conditioned hangar) Oh well, somebody gots to does it!
Hope all is well in your Commanderland. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Running past TBO |
I've recently had several calls and emails asking my opinion about
running an aircraft engine past TBO. Since I'm not updating the web
site these days, I thought I'd share an important trinket of information
that doesn't seem to be widely known - even to A&Ps.
Okay Keith (WCG) - I bow to your superior knowledge of Commander
systems, but here may be something you don't know (naw, unlikely :-)
Your trusty Lycoming 540 in your Commander is getting a bit long in the
teeth. It's right at TBO, but the gold standards for "continued
operation" say everything is healthy. Hot, idle oil pressure is still
pretty good, oil analysis doesn't find anything that you can read part
numbers off of, compressions are all still in the high 60's to 70's, and
the plugs are not telling any frightening stories. Before making the
decision to just keep flying until the jugs fall off, what one important
item might you want to check???
Lycoming had the brilliant idea to put little tubes in the rod throws of
the crankshaft. They are called "sludge tubes". The idea was that the
centrifugal (or is that centripedal, I never can remember) force would
cause particulate matter to be forced out of suspension of the oil.
Turns out they were right. The sludge tubes work really well. In fact,
they work SO well that over time, they can become packed with solidified
sludge to the point they cut off oil flow to the rod bearings. When the
oil flow to a rod journal becomes limited, the bearing runs hotter and
hotter. Amazingly, they become so hot that the bolts become brittle and
fracture. There is a pile of Lycoming cases in the junkyard at the
local shop with pretty inspection openings in locations not intended by
the designers where the big end of a connecting rod ventured out into
the sunlight. The common theme was that they were all sludge tube crank
engines right around TBO. Lycoming noted this trend some time back and
quit making that model of crank. Any new engine or factory overhaul
since sometime in the early/mid 70's would no longer have a "sludge
tube" crank. The moral of the story is that if you have an older
Lycoming engine (like most Commanders do), you might well want to verify
which type of crank you have before venturing far past TBO. On most
540's you can remove one of the lower accessories or plates and see the
back end of the crank. If you can see through the rod journal, you're
set to keep running as long as the engine is healthy. Remember, they're
a heck of a lot cheaper to overhaul while all the parts are still inside
of the engine...
Question: can anyone confirm which crank style was used in the GO-series
engines for me?
Hope this was somewhat interesting. Maybe I'll note a few interesting
tidbits about high time Continentals if I get a chance.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Running past TBO |
In a message dated 05-Jul-04 17:21:55 Pacific Daylight Time, cschuerm(at)cox.net
writes:
> Okay Keith (WCG) - I bow to your superior knowledge of Commander
> systems, but here may be something you don't know (naw, unlikely :-)
Sure. I knew all about the sludge tube cranks, but I forgot all that before
now, but now I know it.
Truthfully, Chris, I'd never heard that and I thank you for such excellent
insight to things that are out of sight. Thank you!
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Running past TBO |
CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> Truthfully, Chris, I'd never heard that and I thank you for such excellent
> insight to things that are out of sight. Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words Keith. Just wish I could trade some of my
"grease" experience for some of your "actual" experience! :-)
Ya know, one of the coolest "out of sight" things I can think of on
Commanders is the torque sensing system of the TPE331. I'm trying to
build a similar configuration for my gas powered ice cream maker to
gauge the set on the ice cream. If I can get the basic mechanical
aspects working, I'll make a big, 1880's looking brass gauge head with
an artsy pointer for the thickness. So, what exactly IS the unit of
measure for the thickness of ice cream anyway???
chris
PS: for those who don't know what the heck I'm talking about:
http://members.cox.net/vasoll/sei/oddities/gpicm.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Running past TBO |
Re. the "set" of the ice cream, an amp meter will tell you how the motor is
struggling to give you the "set".
How about a fuel flow meter for the gas engine?
Not as fancy as a torque reading device.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Running past TBO
>
>
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> > Truthfully, Chris, I'd never heard that and I thank you for such
excellent
> > insight to things that are out of sight. Thank you!
>
> Thanks for the kind words Keith. Just wish I could trade some of my
> "grease" experience for some of your "actual" experience! :-)
>
>
> Ya know, one of the coolest "out of sight" things I can think of on
> Commanders is the torque sensing system of the TPE331. I'm trying to
> build a similar configuration for my gas powered ice cream maker to
> gauge the set on the ice cream. If I can get the basic mechanical
> aspects working, I'll make a big, 1880's looking brass gauge head with
> an artsy pointer for the thickness. So, what exactly IS the unit of
> measure for the thickness of ice cream anyway???
>
> chris
>
> PS: for those who don't know what the heck I'm talking about:
> http://members.cox.net/vasoll/sei/oddities/gpicm.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Running past TBO |
Great article Chris, I will be looking forward to the one on the
Continentals.
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Ice Cream Commander |
In a message dated 05-Jul-04 18:16:45 Pacific Daylight Time, cschuerm(at)cox.net
writes:
> So, what exactly IS the unit of measure for the thickness of ice cream
> anyway???
>
"Scoop-pounds" if you're using English units of measurment.
"Scoop-hectopascalhertzbars" if you're using Metric units of measurment.
It's the averaged force placed upon a SAE ice cream scoop to plunge it into=20a
standing body of ice cream, make a "J" type stroke and then extract it.
You can measure this with either a strain gauge or a hydraulic feed-back
system. I'd go with a piezoelectric strain gauge because the hydraulic system
can leak and then you have 5606 Swirl when you were trying to make French
vanilla.
In a pecan nutshell, the TPE-331 torque sensing system is done via a torsion
shaft; two concentric shafts geared together at the aft. 1 degree of twist=20
100 shaft horsepower. A helical spline converts the twist into a linear
motion that positions a pilot valve which varies oil pressure that is sensed by
a
torque compensator and converted to voltage sent to the horsepower gage.
Whew! Now you see why I wouldn't use that system ... unless you use a
TPE-331 to drive your ice cream maker. In that case, you'd have the system=20in
place and you could turn out ice cream at a staggering pace.
Think of the flavors! Garrett crunch. Oil chip lite (hmmmmm?). Turbine
nut. Cinnamon Jet-A. Beta berry ...
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Running past TBO |
What I really want to know is, Chris, how much ice cream do you have to make
to justify building a TPE-powered 1,017 HP ice cream maker? Because then,
the torque sensor would be included and it would be one less step for
you....
I bet the Guinness Book folks would be interested were you to do that.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Running past TBO
>
>
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> > Truthfully, Chris, I'd never heard that and I thank you for such
excellent
> > insight to things that are out of sight. Thank you!
>
> Thanks for the kind words Keith. Just wish I could trade some of my
> "grease" experience for some of your "actual" experience! :-)
>
>
> Ya know, one of the coolest "out of sight" things I can think of on
> Commanders is the torque sensing system of the TPE331. I'm trying to
> build a similar configuration for my gas powered ice cream maker to
> gauge the set on the ice cream. If I can get the basic mechanical
> aspects working, I'll make a big, 1880's looking brass gauge head with
> an artsy pointer for the thickness. So, what exactly IS the unit of
> measure for the thickness of ice cream anyway???
>
> chris
>
> PS: for those who don't know what the heck I'm talking about:
> http://members.cox.net/vasoll/sei/oddities/gpicm.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Running past TBO |
Not if it's that grim.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Running past TBO
>
> Great article Chris, I will be looking forward to the one on the
> Continentals.
>
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Ice Cream Commander |
you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
>From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 22:33:15 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 05-Jul-04 18:16:45 Pacific Daylight Time,
>cschuerm(at)cox.net
>writes:
>
> > So, what exactly IS the unit of measure for the thickness of ice cream
> > anyway???
> >
>
>"Scoop-pounds" if you're using English units of measurment.
>"Scoop-hectopascalhertzbars" if you're using Metric units of measurment.
>
>It's the averaged force placed upon a SAE ice cream scoop to plunge it
>into=20a
>standing body of ice cream, make a "J" type stroke and then extract it.
>
>You can measure this with either a strain gauge or a hydraulic feed-back
>system. I'd go with a piezoelectric strain gauge because the hydraulic
>system
>can leak and then you have 5606 Swirl when you were trying to make French
>vanilla.
>
>In a pecan nutshell, the TPE-331 torque sensing system is done via a
>torsion
>shaft; two concentric shafts geared together at the aft. 1 degree of
>twist
>100 shaft horsepower. A helical spline converts the twist into a linear
>motion that positions a pilot valve which varies oil pressure that is
>sensed by a
>torque compensator and converted to voltage sent to the horsepower gage.
>
>Whew! Now you see why I wouldn't use that system ... unless you use a
>TPE-331 to drive your ice cream maker. In that case, you'd have the
>system=20in
>place and you could turn out ice cream at a staggering pace.
>
>Think of the flavors! Garrett crunch. Oil chip lite (hmmmmm?). Turbine
>nut. Cinnamon Jet-A. Beta berry ...
>
>Wing Commander Gordon
>
>Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ice Cream Commander |
In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:27:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, kamala(at)msn.com
writes:
you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
AMEN!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
Anyone have any good suggestions about refinishing a chrome spinner that
is suffering from pitting and peeling? Both of my spinners are a bit on
the "crusty" side and I'd sure like to spiff them back up....just not
enough to pay Hartzel$$$$$ for new ones. I'm afraid to bead blast them
as it might harden the aluminum and cause future cracking. All of the
local chrome shops mainly do motorcycle parts and won't touch it.
thanks,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice Cream Commander |
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
>
>
> AMEN!! jb
just trying to work a little amusing side-line topic into some good
Commander discussion.....
Y'all say something if it's an annoying distraction.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css 2" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice Cream Commander |
Not annoying. Just took a little while to figure out the ice cream
connection. But good fun.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
>
> YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> > you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
> >
> >
> > AMEN!! jb
>
>
> just trying to work a little amusing side-line topic into some good
> Commander discussion.....
> Y'all say something if it's an annoying distraction.
>
> chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner chrome |
Take Battery Acid AND REMOVE THE CHROME.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Spinner chrome
>
>
> Anyone have any good suggestions about refinishing a chrome spinner that
> is suffering from pitting and peeling? Both of my spinners are a bit on
> the "crusty" side and I'd sure like to spiff them back up....just not
> enough to pay Hartzel$$$$$ for new ones. I'm afraid to bead blast them
> as it might harden the aluminum and cause future cracking. All of the
> local chrome shops mainly do motorcycle parts and won't touch it.
>
> thanks,
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Running past TBO |
Hadn't thought about that. I should have several hundred hours to go.
Jim
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Subject: Commander-List: Running past TBO
Not if it's that grim.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Running past TBO
>
> Great article Chris, I will be looking forward to the one on the
> Continentals.
>
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Ice Cream Commander |
What do you mean, bored. This is cool stuff they are talking about, I can
tell ya'll are not true ice cream eaters.
Jim
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:27:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
kamala(at)msn.com
writes:
you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
AMEN!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner chrome |
avtec2(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> Take Battery Acid AND REMOVE THE CHROME.
Really?!?! You've done that and it stripped the chrome without damaging
the thin aluminum?
Okay,
Thanks!
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Ice Cream Commander |
blue bell rules, you know that jim. mason
>From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:51:11 -0500
>
>
>
>What do you mean, bored. This is cool stuff they are talking about, I can
>tell ya'll are not true ice cream eaters.
>
>Jim
>N444BD
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
>
>In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:27:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>kamala(at)msn.com
>writes:
>
>
>you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
>
>
>AMEN!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Ice Cream Commander |
I am afraid I do, and my belt size proves it. I weighed 160 until they put
ice cream and yogurt in the terminals.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of MASON
Chevaillier
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
blue bell rules, you know that jim. mason
>From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:51:11 -0500
>
>
>
>What do you mean, bored. This is cool stuff they are talking about, I can
>tell ya'll are not true ice cream eaters.
>
>Jim
>N444BD
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
>
>In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:27:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>kamala(at)msn.com
>writes:
>
>
>you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
>
>
>AMEN!! jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice Cream Commander |
I weighed 160 until I hit the 10th grade.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
> I am afraid I do, and my belt size proves it. I weighed 160 until they put
> ice cream and yogurt in the terminals.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of MASON
> Chevaillier
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
>
> blue bell rules, you know that jim. mason
>
>
> >From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
> >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> >Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:51:11 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> >What do you mean, bored. This is cool stuff they are talking about, I can
> >tell ya'll are not true ice cream eaters.
> >
> >Jim
> >N444BD
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> >YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:27:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >kamala(at)msn.com
> >writes:
> >
> >
> >you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
> >
> >
> >AMEN!! jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice Cream Commander |
MASON Chevaillier wrote:
> blue bell rules, you know that jim. mason
The blue bell plant is just across town from here.
They're mere amatures... REAL ice cream costs $40/gal to make :-)
(that's including the 100LL to power the machine - a bit more if you
figure in hangar costs)
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Ice Cream Commander |
Hear, Hear, I agree. That is real ice cream. MMMMMM Good. I talked to George
Dalton here in Denton and he has a 700 Commander and a 690 that he just
bought. We are planning to have a Commander fly in here for hamburgers some
afternoon. Mason if you are reading this you are going to have to get that
old plane of yours put together and come up too. Chris you will have to
bring your ice cream maker too.
Jim
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
MASON Chevaillier wrote:
> blue bell rules, you know that jim. mason
The blue bell plant is just across town from here.
They're mere amatures... REAL ice cream costs $40/gal to make :-)
(that's including the 100LL to power the machine - a bit more if you
figure in hangar costs)
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Ice Cream Commander |
You were taller though, I am only 5'9.5" tall. I weighed 135 all the way
through USAF pilot school and survival school but they did something to me
there because I gained 15 pounds quickly and then gained another 10 pounds.
I stayed at 160 for about 20 years. I just wish I could get back to 180 now.
Jim
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
I weighed 160 until I hit the 10th grade.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
> I am afraid I do, and my belt size proves it. I weighed 160 until they put
> ice cream and yogurt in the terminals.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of MASON
> Chevaillier
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
>
> blue bell rules, you know that jim. mason
>
>
> >From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
> >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> >Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:51:11 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> >What do you mean, bored. This is cool stuff they are talking about, I can
> >tell ya'll are not true ice cream eaters.
> >
> >Jim
> >N444BD
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> >YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:27:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >kamala(at)msn.com
> >writes:
> >
> >
> >you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
> >
> >
> >AMEN!! jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice Cream Commander |
I'd settle for 220 the weight I was when I quit smoking.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
> You were taller though, I am only 5'9.5" tall. I weighed 135 all the way
> through USAF pilot school and survival school but they did something to me
> there because I gained 15 pounds quickly and then gained another 10
pounds.
> I stayed at 160 for about 20 years. I just wish I could get back to 180
now.
> Jim
> N444BD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Bow
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
>
> I weighed 160 until I hit the 10th grade.
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
>
>
> >
> > I am afraid I do, and my belt size proves it. I weighed 160 until they
put
> > ice cream and yogurt in the terminals.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of MASON
> > Chevaillier
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> >
> >
> >
> > blue bell rules, you know that jim. mason
> >
> >
> > >From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
> > >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To:
> > >Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> > >Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:51:11 -0500
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >What do you mean, bored. This is cool stuff they are talking about, I
can
> > >tell ya'll are not true ice cream eaters.
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >N444BD
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > >[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > >YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> > >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:27:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > >kamala(at)msn.com
> > >writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
> > >
> > >
> > >AMEN!! jb
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice Cream Commander |
gaining weight in England means more money too.
It's like gaining dollars in the US.
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
> You were taller though, I am only 5'9.5" tall. I weighed 135 all the way
> through USAF pilot school and survival school but they did something to me
> there because I gained 15 pounds quickly and then gained another 10
pounds.
> I stayed at 160 for about 20 years. I just wish I could get back to 180
now.
> Jim
> N444BD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Bow
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
>
> I weighed 160 until I hit the 10th grade.
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
>
>
> >
> > I am afraid I do, and my belt size proves it. I weighed 160 until they
put
> > ice cream and yogurt in the terminals.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of MASON
> > Chevaillier
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> >
> >
> >
> > blue bell rules, you know that jim. mason
> >
> >
> > >From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
> > >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To:
> > >Subject: RE: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> > >Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:51:11 -0500
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >What do you mean, bored. This is cool stuff they are talking about, I
can
> > >tell ya'll are not true ice cream eaters.
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >N444BD
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > >[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > >YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> > >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >In a message dated 7/6/2004 6:27:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > >kamala(at)msn.com
> > >writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >you guys are way way to bored for a long 4th weekend. mason
> > >
> > >
> > >AMEN!! jb
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Ice Cream Commander |
I knew I liked England, now I know why. All this time I thought it was the
people.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Ice Cream Commander
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Campbell" <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com> |
| Subject: | GO-435 C2B2 help |
I have for the last long time had a problem wth my right engine, in that the oil
pressure is just at the bottom of the green. Have tried everything to fix it,
and nothing simple seems to work.
So, I think it is at least time for a new oil pump. Anyone familiar with the engine?
(Chris....) In particular, is it necessary to dismantle every accessory
in order to get to it? I have gotten a new pump body (no small feat, as they
dont make them anymore.) and the gears are in production, so I can "just order"
them. Should I also replace the driver shaft? (Again, scrounging involved,
so I need to anticipate the need...)
Also, where do you find cylinders/cam/crankshaft for a GO 435? (had a set when
I got the plane, but they were stolen... So I need to find new ones).
Etc. Any help is appreciated.
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martini Luc J.R." <martini(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GO-435 C2B2 help |
I tried sending Bruce Campbell a section of the Lycoming Manual on Oil
Sump/Pump replacement, but the message got bounced back. Must be a dead
e-mail address.
Luc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Campbell" <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com>
Subject: Commander-List: GO-435 C2B2 help
>
> I have for the last long time had a problem wth my right engine, in that
the oil pressure is just at the bottom of the green. Have tried everything
to fix it, and nothing simple seems to work.
>
> So, I think it is at least time for a new oil pump. Anyone familiar with
the engine? (Chris....) In particular, is it necessary to dismantle every
accessory in order to get to it? I have gotten a new pump body (no small
feat, as they dont make them anymore.) and the gears are in production, so I
can "just order" them. Should I also replace the driver shaft? (Again,
scrounging involved, so I need to anticipate the need...)
>
> Also, where do you find cylinders/cam/crankshaft for a GO 435? (had a set
when I got the plane, but they were stolen... So I need to find new ones).
>
> Etc. Any help is appreciated.
>
> Bruce Campbell
> AC52 N4186B
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martini Luc J.R." <martini(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GO-435 C2B2 help |
In re. Bruce Cambell. I reread bounce message. "Access Denied", he must
have some sort of spam filter that keeps EVERYBODY out, not the way to get
answers from a forum.
Luc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Campbell" <baruch(at)intelligentflight.com>
Subject: Commander-List: GO-435 C2B2 help
>
> I have for the last long time had a problem wth my right engine, in that
the oil pressure is just at the bottom of the green. Have tried everything
to fix it, and nothing simple seems to work.
>
> So, I think it is at least time for a new oil pump. Anyone familiar with
the engine? (Chris....) In particular, is it necessary to dismantle every
accessory in order to get to it? I have gotten a new pump body (no small
feat, as they dont make them anymore.) and the gears are in production, so I
can "just order" them. Should I also replace the driver shaft? (Again,
scrounging involved, so I need to anticipate the need...)
>
> Also, where do you find cylinders/cam/crankshaft for a GO 435? (had a set
when I got the plane, but they were stolen... So I need to find new ones).
>
> Etc. Any help is appreciated.
>
> Bruce Campbell
> AC52 N4186B
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GO-435 C2B2 help |
Bruce Campbell wrote:
> I have for the last long time had a problem wth my right engine
Howdy Bruce. Wow, I can't believe you're still running that right
engine. She had more life in her than I expected!
It's been too many years since I last had one of those apart, but I seem
to recall that you can pull the accessory case off the back of the
engine without splitting the case. That should give you access to the
pump and housing. I'd recomend calling Central Cylinder in NB. They
probably have more geared Lyc parts than anyone else. You might also
check Custom Airmotive in Tulsa. They used to do a lot of GO-435s and
480s and had tons of cores.
http://centralcylinder.com/
http://customairmotive.com/
> Also, where do you find cylinders/cam/crankshaft for a GO 435? (had
> a set when I got the plane, but they were stolen... So I need to find
> new ones).
Wow, sorry to hear that. With the exception of the nose gear case, that
was almost an entire engine of factory new parts. I got the cylinders
from El Reno Aviation. Their number is: 405-262-2387
I have 5 cylinders which you are welcome to. They came off the engine
that swallowed the exhaust valve. You could probably run them as-is for
a while, but I'd STRONGLY suggest that they be overhauled. They still
have 7/16" valves and there's a good chance that another would break if
put back into service. They're yours if you come get 'em!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martini Luc J.R." <martini(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GO-435 C2B2 help |
In re. Bruce:
A quick read of the Lycoming Manual indicates all you do is drop the pan on
a -C2 engine.
I tried to send Bruce 8 pages from the manual, but they did not make it.
Luc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-435 C2B2 help
>
>
> Bruce Campbell wrote:
> > I have for the last long time had a problem wth my right engine
>
> Howdy Bruce. Wow, I can't believe you're still running that right
> engine. She had more life in her than I expected!
> It's been too many years since I last had one of those apart, but I seem
> to recall that you can pull the accessory case off the back of the
> engine without splitting the case. That should give you access to the
> pump and housing. I'd recomend calling Central Cylinder in NB. They
> probably have more geared Lyc parts than anyone else. You might also
> check Custom Airmotive in Tulsa. They used to do a lot of GO-435s and
> 480s and had tons of cores.
> http://centralcylinder.com/
> http://customairmotive.com/
>
> > Also, where do you find cylinders/cam/crankshaft for a GO 435? (had
> > a set when I got the plane, but they were stolen... So I need to find
> > new ones).
>
> Wow, sorry to hear that. With the exception of the nose gear case, that
> was almost an entire engine of factory new parts. I got the cylinders
> from El Reno Aviation. Their number is: 405-262-2387
>
> I have 5 cylinders which you are welcome to. They came off the engine
> that swallowed the exhaust valve. You could probably run them as-is for
> a while, but I'd STRONGLY suggest that they be overhauled. They still
> have 7/16" valves and there's a good chance that another would break if
> put back into service. They're yours if you come get 'em!
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martini Luc J.R." <martini(at)foxinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GO-435 C2B2 help |
I checked the book again, and it looks like in the GO435-C2 you have a dry
sump, with a scavenge pump in the pan, and the Pressure pump in the Gear
case. The book is hard to follow since it talks to three engine types:
GO435, GO480, and GO-540 each of which can come with gear cases on the back
or on the side.
Luc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martini(at)foxinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-435 C2B2 help
>
> In re. Bruce:
> A quick read of the Lycoming Manual indicates all you do is drop the pan
on
> a -C2 engine.
>
> I tried to send Bruce 8 pages from the manual, but they did not make it.
> Luc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-435 C2B2 help
>
>
> >
> >
> > Bruce Campbell wrote:
> > > I have for the last long time had a problem wth my right engine
> >
> > Howdy Bruce. Wow, I can't believe you're still running that right
> > engine. She had more life in her than I expected!
> > It's been too many years since I last had one of those apart, but I seem
> > to recall that you can pull the accessory case off the back of the
> > engine without splitting the case. That should give you access to the
> > pump and housing. I'd recomend calling Central Cylinder in NB. They
> > probably have more geared Lyc parts than anyone else. You might also
> > check Custom Airmotive in Tulsa. They used to do a lot of GO-435s and
> > 480s and had tons of cores.
> > http://centralcylinder.com/
> > http://customairmotive.com/
> >
> > > Also, where do you find cylinders/cam/crankshaft for a GO 435? (had
> > > a set when I got the plane, but they were stolen... So I need to find
> > > new ones).
> >
> > Wow, sorry to hear that. With the exception of the nose gear case, that
> > was almost an entire engine of factory new parts. I got the cylinders
> > from El Reno Aviation. Their number is: 405-262-2387
> >
> > I have 5 cylinders which you are welcome to. They came off the engine
> > that swallowed the exhaust valve. You could probably run them as-is for
> > a while, but I'd STRONGLY suggest that they be overhauled. They still
> > have 7/16" valves and there's a good chance that another would break if
> > put back into service. They're yours if you come get 'em!
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GO-435 C2B2 help |
Martini Luc J.R. wrote:
> I checked the book again, and it looks like in the GO435-C2 you have a dry
> sump, with a scavenge pump in the pan, and the Pressure pump in the Gear
> case. The book is hard to follow since it talks to three engine types:
> GO435, GO480, and GO-540 each of which can come with gear cases on the back
> or on the side.
Nope, the 435's are wet sump. There are some dry sump versions of the
480 though.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Hitching a ride..?? |
Hi Everyone,
I'll be flying 53X from SBP (San Luis Obispo, CA) up to Stockton, CA for it's
annual inspection by Morris K. the last week of this month. Anybody passing by
Stockton headed south that week..?? Sure would like to hitch a ride home to
SBP. I will, of course, cover costs for fuel...and shower you with appreciation.
Sure would rather be at Oshkosh that week...but, oh well.
Thanks,
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hitching a ride..?? |
Randy, I'll be doing some work at Morris' that week prior to sending my
airplane to MO for paint. I was figuring on visiting my brother in SBP, so
let's talk about it and see if we coincide.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Hitching a ride..??
>
> Hi Everyone,
> I'll be flying 53X from SBP (San Luis Obispo, CA) up to Stockton, CA for
it's annual inspection by Morris K. the last week of this month. Anybody
passing by Stockton headed south that week..?? Sure would like to hitch a
ride home to SBP. I will, of course, cover costs for fuel...and shower you
with appreciation.
>
> Sure would rather be at Oshkosh that week...but, oh well.
>
> Thanks,
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F/N6253X
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hitching a ride..?? |
Hey John...sounds great. I can drop off my plane anytime that week. Let me
know what works for you.
Thanks,
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hitching a ride..??
>
> Randy, I'll be doing some work at Morris' that week prior to sending my
> airplane to MO for paint. I was figuring on visiting my brother in SBP, so
> let's talk about it and see if we coincide.
>
> /John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> To: "Commander Chat"
> Subject: Commander-List: Hitching a ride..??
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> > I'll be flying 53X from SBP (San Luis Obispo, CA) up to Stockton, CA
for
> it's annual inspection by Morris K. the last week of this month. Anybody
> passing by Stockton headed south that week..?? Sure would like to hitch a
> ride home to SBP. I will, of course, cover costs for fuel...and shower
you
> with appreciation.
> >
> > Sure would rather be at Oshkosh that week...but, oh well.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Randy Dettmer
> > 680F/N6253X
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Continental engine notes |
Okay, several folks have asked me if there's any specific items that
might help make decisions about when and how to overhaul Continental
engines.
Two BIG items are the case and crank.
Most Continental owners (I hope) already know that the factory changed
the method used to make cranks. They were having a bit of trouble with
cranks breaking. The new process is refered to as VAR (vaccum arc
remelt). If you have a non-VAR crank, it is required to be replaced
with a VAR crank any time the case is split! This is an important note
- if you have to open the case for any reason - even on a low time
engine - the crank must be replaced. Did I mention that they're rather
expensive? Keep that in mind if you're looking at buying an airplane
that doesn't have the new crank - you never know what might happen that
would require an early split. A minor prop strike requires an internal
inspection for example.
There have been four (I believe) revisions of the 6 cylinder Continental
case assembly. If you have a first generation case, consider it a
throw-away item at overhaul. They had a LOT of problems with those
cases cracking. I've seen airplanes with cylinders laying in the bottom
of the cowling with part of the case still attached. Only the absolute
cheapest shops would consider re-using a phase I case at overhaul. THe
phase III/VI cases can be identified by bumps along the upper spine of
the case where the bolts go through. These are the heavier cases which
are most desirable. They also have a Teledyne logo at the rear of the
case - behind the right rear cylinder if memory serves.
Here's where the decision making part comes in. IF you happen to have
an engine with an early case and/or a non-VAR crank, you'll almost
certainly want to send it in for a factory re-man. When Continental
receives such an engine for overhaul, they toss the case and crank in
the junk pile and you get a new case and crank at no additional cost
(this will change as some point no doubt). Generally, going for a
factory re-man is very cost effective in this case as a field overhauler
would have to purchase a new or servicable crank and case. (and I
personally hate getting "servicable" parts since I never know what
happend to cause them to end up on the market and NOT in an engine).
Hope I havn't make everyone paranoid now with all this engine talk! :-)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hitching a ride..?? |
John Vormbaum wrote:
> Randy, I'll be doing some work at Morris' that week prior to sending my
> airplane to MO for paint.
Howdy John!
I can't believe you're going to paint your airplane! :-)
Where are you having it done at? Maybe I can meet up somewhere for a visit.
cheers,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hitching a ride..?? |
Hey Chris :-).
Yeah, there's more metal visible now than paint, so I figure that means it's
time.
I'm going to a place called Hangar One in Malden, MO. The airplane will be
arriving there the first week of August, but because of my work schedule,
I'm not positive yet that I'll be accompanying it.
I get to pick it up the weekend of the fly-in. Can you believe it? I'll be
showing up to the fly-in with a brand spankin' new paint job! Woohoo!
I'll ping you when the date gets closer, maybe we can connect!
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hitching a ride..??
>
>
> John Vormbaum wrote:
> > Randy, I'll be doing some work at Morris' that week prior to sending my
> > airplane to MO for paint.
>
> Howdy John!
> I can't believe you're going to paint your airplane! :-)
> Where are you having it done at? Maybe I can meet up somewhere for a
visit.
>
> cheers,
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hitching a ride..?? |
I'll give you a shout when the date gets a little closer & we'll figure it
out.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hitching a ride..??
>
> Hey John...sounds great. I can drop off my plane anytime that week. Let
me
> know what works for you.
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hitching a ride..??
>
>
> >
> > Randy, I'll be doing some work at Morris' that week prior to sending my
> > airplane to MO for paint. I was figuring on visiting my brother in SBP,
so
> > let's talk about it and see if we coincide.
> >
> > /John
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> > To: "Commander Chat"
> > Subject: Commander-List: Hitching a ride..??
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > > I'll be flying 53X from SBP (San Luis Obispo, CA) up to Stockton, CA
> for
> > it's annual inspection by Morris K. the last week of this month.
Anybody
> > passing by Stockton headed south that week..?? Sure would like to hitch
a
> > ride home to SBP. I will, of course, cover costs for fuel...and shower
> you
> > with appreciation.
> > >
> > > Sure would rather be at Oshkosh that week...but, oh well.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Randy Dettmer
> > > 680F/N6253X
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Wet Vacuum pumps |
3.6 ALT_MED Misspelled medication name
Gents,
What is the life expectancy of the wet vacuum pumps, such as the ones on my 680F(p)?
Can't seem to find anything on this.
Thanks!
Moe
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wet Vacuum pumps |
Moe wrote:
> What is the life expectancy of the wet vacuum pumps
It's kinda like how many licks does it take to the center of a tootsie
pop.... the world may never know....
The pumps on my 520 were orig 1953 with about 4000 hours on them. I've
never seen an overhaul recomendation, but I'd think it would be prudent
to overhaul them (and the rest of the accessories) when the engines are
overhauled.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wet Vacuum pumps |
Moe
The wet vac pumps will outlive the engines easily. Depending on what make you
have, the common ones being Pesco and Aro. Aro parts are expensive and
reasonably rare, Pesco on the other hand are a lot cheaper to do. I have numerous
spare ones that I have collected.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Wet Vacuum pumps |
Folks,
That's the great beauty of wet vac. pumps, --- on condition.
If they are working fine, leave sleeping dogs lay, and unlike dry pumps,
sudden failures seem to be rare, somewhat in contrast to the vanes in dry
pumps.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 09:16 14/07/2004, you wrote:
>
>Moe
>
>The wet vac pumps will outlive the engines easily. Depending on what make you
>have, the common ones being Pesco and Aro. Aro parts are expensive and
>reasonably rare, Pesco on the other hand are a lot cheaper to do. I have
>numerous
>spare ones that I have collected.
>
>Regards
>Richard
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Services
and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are
not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosure or copying of
this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege
attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of the
mistaken delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jlyle <jlyle(at)thomsonaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commander For Sale |
Hi all'
I have dedcided to sell my Aero Commander after much work and restoration.
Please look at the photo's to see results of several years of effort.
I believe it to be the best example of a 520 available.
5838 TT
612 SMOH Left with New Top
196 SMOH Right-
125 since New Props and Hubs (no AD's)
Great New Panel with Garmin 430, S-tec AutoPilot, Annnunciator lights and much
more.
New paint and recent interior
Compete spec sheet and photo's at www.thomsonaviation.com
Will entertain any reasonable offer and consider partial trade for small single
engine.
It flies great and will make someone a great aircraft.
Thanks,
James Lyle
N11L
706-799-2602 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Wet Vacuum pumps |
till they go south. maon
>From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Commander-List: Wet Vacuum pumps
>Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:12:40 -0700 3.6 ALT_MED
>Misspelled medication name
>
>
> Gents,
>
>What is the life expectancy of the wet vacuum pumps, such as the ones on my
>680F(p)? Can't seem to find anything on this.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Moe
>N680RR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Farmer" <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
Does anybody have a suggestion for getting a key for the door to a 500B?
dan farmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Dan,
Try the keys from another Commander or maybe even an other plane. My door
key to the airline airplanes would fit my Commander but the Commander key
would not fit the airline airplane doors. The other thing would be to re-key
or replace the lock. These are just my suggestions.
Jim Addington
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Daniel
Farmer
Subject: Commander-List: KEYS
Does anybody have a suggestion for getting a key for the door to a 500B?
dan farmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Folks,
I have just put a new barrel in the main door lock of -DCF, once I figured
how to remove the pin to dismantle it all, it was easy. A standard barrel
was found amongst the great variety at the local locksmith.
Internally, the slot the tongue dropped into was really chewed out, but it
was relatively easy to turn up a new insert and just file the tongue slot.
Needless to say, this time I used a bit of annealed stainless for the
tongue slot piece, no more corrosion.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 01:12 20/07/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>Dan,
>Try the keys from another Commander or maybe even an other plane. My door
>key to the airline airplanes would fit my Commander but the Commander key
>would not fit the airline airplane doors. The other thing would be to re-key
>or replace the lock. These are just my suggestions.
>
>Jim Addington
>N444BD
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Daniel
>Farmer
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: KEYS
>
>
>
>
>Does anybody have a suggestion for getting a key for the door to a 500B?
>dan farmer
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Services
and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are
not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosure or copying of
this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege
attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of the
mistaken delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>Does anybody have a suggestion for getting a key for the door to a 500B?
dan farmer
I had one cut for my 500B at a locksmith who told me that it is the same as
an older Ford tractor.
Larry Wokral
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/19/04 |
| From: | "John McNulty" <JMcNulty(at)socalpizza.com> |
I recall vividly Dick Wartinger saying that all Commander keys
are actually Studebaker keys. He pronounced it "Stoo-Dee-Baker!"
I might suggest a call to Commander Aero for replacements; and they
are apparently all the same cut.
Regards,
John McNulty
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Commander-List Digest Server
Subject: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/19/04
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can be also be found in either of
the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with
a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.200
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4-07-19.txt
================================================
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================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 07/19/04: 3
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:20 AM - KEYS (Daniel Farmer)
2. 08:12 AM - Re: KEYS (Jim Addington)
3. 05:44 PM - Re: KEYS (W J R HAMILTON)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: "Daniel Farmer" <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Commander-List: KEYS
-->
Does anybody have a suggestion for getting a key for the door to a 500B?
dan farmer
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: KEYS
-->
Dan,
Try the keys from another Commander or maybe even an other plane. My
door key to the airline airplanes would fit my Commander but the
Commander key would not fit the airline airplane doors. The other thing
would be to re-key or replace the lock. These are just my suggestions.
Jim Addington
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Daniel
Farmer
Subject: Commander-List: KEYS
Does anybody have a suggestion for getting a key for the door to a 500B?
dan farmer
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
From: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: KEYS
-->
Folks,
I have just put a new barrel in the main door lock of -DCF, once I
figured how to remove the pin to dismantle it all, it was easy. A
standard barrel was found amongst the great variety at the local
locksmith.
Internally, the slot the tongue dropped into was really chewed out, but
it was relatively easy to turn up a new insert and just file the tongue
slot.
Needless to say, this time I used a bit of annealed stainless for the
tongue slot piece, no more corrosion.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 01:12 20/07/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>Dan,
>Try the keys from another Commander or maybe even an other plane. My
>door key to the airline airplanes would fit my Commander but the
>Commander key would not fit the airline airplane doors. The other thing
>would be to re-key or replace the lock. These are just my suggestions.
>
>Jim Addington
>N444BD
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Daniel
>Farmer
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: KEYS
>
>
>
>
>Does anybody have a suggestion for getting a key for the door to a
500B?
>dan farmer
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet
Services and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee.
It is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you
are not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosure or
copying of this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and legal
privilege attached to this communication are not waived or lost by
reason of the mistaken delivery to you.If you have received this message
in error, please notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/19/04 |
In a message dated 20-Jul-04 12:00:31 Pacific Daylight Time,
JMcNulty(at)socalpizza.com writes:
> I recall vividly Dick Wartinger saying that all Commander keys
> are actually Studebaker keys. He pronounced it "Stoo-Dee-Baker!"
>
The Stoo Dee Baker connection with Commanders keeps popping up. I wish I
could find some answers. There was talk about 2 years ago about the original
Commander logo (the word, not the graphic of the airplane) came from Studebaker.
One thing I do know about Commander keys is that Ted Smith used the same
locks and keys for the AeroStars. Thus, the AeroStar and original Commander keys
are all the same.
If you can come across an owner of either aircraft (with original locks) a
duplicate can be made.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Chat virus on list |
I keep getting email from "Chat" with virus files attached. The body of the
email shows it comes from chat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com. Isn't this Chris's old
list address?
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chat virus on list |
nico css wrote:
> I keep getting email from "Chat" with virus files attached. The body of the
> email shows it comes from chat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com. Isn't this Chris's old
> list address?
Someone subscribed to the list has a virus. Many of the current nasty
ones send out email to everyone in their address book and the "From"
address is forged from another entry in the address book. This is a
huge, known hole in microsoft's email client. Should be easy enough to
find as I can't imagine there are that many chat list members running
Outlook with your address in their book. Take a look everyone and see
if you are the guilty one....
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chat virus on list |
Got an email message from John Vornbaum this morning that looked VERY
suspicious. It contained an attachment which most likely was a virus. I
deleted it. Some nasty virus probably pulled John's name from an address
book and sent the message to me. It's importent to be vigilant and alert to
supicious looking emails.
Good luck everyone..!!
Randy Dettmer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
>
>
> nico css wrote:
> > I keep getting email from "Chat" with virus files attached. The body of
the
> > email shows it comes from chat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com. Isn't this Chris's
old
> > list address?
>
> Someone subscribed to the list has a virus. Many of the current nasty
> ones send out email to everyone in their address book and the "From"
> address is forged from another entry in the address book. This is a
> huge, known hole in microsoft's email client. Should be easy enough to
> find as I can't imagine there are that many chat list members running
> Outlook with your address in their book. Take a look everyone and see
> if you are the guilty one....
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chat virus on list |
I definitely didn't send anything to you, Randy.
I'll check my system, although it came up clean last night...
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
>
> Got an email message from John Vornbaum this morning that looked VERY
> suspicious. It contained an attachment which most likely was a virus. I
> deleted it. Some nasty virus probably pulled John's name from an address
> book and sent the message to me. It's importent to be vigilant and alert
to
> supicious looking emails.
>
> Good luck everyone..!!
>
> Randy Dettmer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
>
>
> >
> >
> > nico css wrote:
> > > I keep getting email from "Chat" with virus files attached. The body
of
> the
> > > email shows it comes from chat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com. Isn't this
Chris's
> old
> > > list address?
> >
> > Someone subscribed to the list has a virus. Many of the current nasty
> > ones send out email to everyone in their address book and the "From"
> > address is forged from another entry in the address book. This is a
> > huge, known hole in microsoft's email client. Should be easy enough to
> > find as I can't imagine there are that many chat list members running
> > Outlook with your address in their book. Take a look everyone and see
> > if you are the guilty one....
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chat virus on list |
Hi John,
That's what I figured. I'm sure that it was a rogue virus-infected program
out there somewhere. Got to keep alert.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
>
> I definitely didn't send anything to you, Randy.
>
> I'll check my system, although it came up clean last night...
>
> /John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
>
>
>
> >
> > Got an email message from John Vornbaum this morning that looked VERY
> > suspicious. It contained an attachment which most likely was a virus.
I
> > deleted it. Some nasty virus probably pulled John's name from an
address
> > book and sent the message to me. It's importent to be vigilant and
alert
> to
> > supicious looking emails.
> >
> > Good luck everyone..!!
> >
> > Randy Dettmer
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> > > nico css wrote:
> > > > I keep getting email from "Chat" with virus files attached. The body
> of
> > the
> > > > email shows it comes from chat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com. Isn't this
> Chris's
> > old
> > > > list address?
> > >
> > > Someone subscribed to the list has a virus. Many of the current nasty
> > > ones send out email to everyone in their address book and the "From"
> > > address is forged from another entry in the address book. This is a
> > > huge, known hole in microsoft's email client. Should be easy enough
to
> > > find as I can't imagine there are that many chat list members running
> > > Outlook with your address in their book. Take a look everyone and see
> > > if you are the guilty one....
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chat virus on list |
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
> That's what I figured. I'm sure that it was a rogue virus-infected program
> out there somewhere. Got to keep alert.
So true Randy!
The one that appeared to be from the skymaster.c2-tech.com address was a
good example. Neither that computer or even the domain exists any more.
Whoever had the virus had that old address in their address book still.
I see nobody has "fessed up" yet :-)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chat virus on list |
| From: | "Jackie" <jflan1(at)excite.com> |
the virus is in matronics !!! ...several "lists" are being duplicated and spread
all over...i blocked yak-list(at)matronics.com and stopped most of my unwanted
email, but it has started again (2 days later)--- On Thu 07/22, John Vormbaum
john(at)vormbaum.com wrote:
From: John Vormbaum [mailto: john(at)vormbaum.com]To: commander-list(at)matronics.comDate: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:02:54 -0700Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list-- Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" I definitely didn't send anything to you, Randy.I'll check my system, although it came up clean last night.../John----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" To: Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list -- Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Got an email message from John Vornbaum this morning that looked VERY suspicious. It contained an attachment which most likely was a virus. I deleted it. Some nasty virus probably pulled John's name from an address book and sent the message to me. It's importent to be vigilant and alertto supicious looking emails. Good luck everyone..!! Randy Dettmer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Schuermann" To: Subj
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chat virus on list |
A possible source could be the chat list text pages, which are visible on
the internet. I typed my name in google.com and many chats that I was
involved in, when our email address was still c2-tech, came up in the search
results. If an Internet crawler goes over these pages, it will harvest all
those email addresses and who knows what these suckers do with them. The
fact that the c2-tech domain has been out of circulation for quite a while
already, gives credence to my theory.
Go into google.com and type in "Randy Dettmer" (not the quotes) and the very
first item shown is our chatlist with all sorts of email addresses in the
text. Some of you might remember that when Matt took over the list, I
supplied all the old chat lists from my server (I am a nut for collecting
all sorts of useless things) and they also come up in that context, but with
the old email addresses intact.
In google type in "barry hancock commander list" (not the quotes) and you
can see the old list in the archives coming up right away. That is the
thread in which Milt wanted to know if I really exist. :-)
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
>
>
> Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
> > That's what I figured. I'm sure that it was a rogue virus-infected
program
> > out there somewhere. Got to keep alert.
>
> So true Randy!
> The one that appeared to be from the skymaster.c2-tech.com address was a
> good example. Neither that computer or even the domain exists any more.
> Whoever had the virus had that old address in their address book still.
> I see nobody has "fessed up" yet :-)
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css 2" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chat virus on list |
They spoof our names. How they get hold of them is a mystery, or an art in
deception. I noticed that names of people that I communicate with appear as
"From" people in spam mails. They are not even in my address book. So, now
we are aware of them.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
>
> I definitely didn't send anything to you, Randy.
>
> I'll check my system, although it came up clean last night...
>
> /John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
>
>
>
> >
> > Got an email message from John Vornbaum this morning that looked VERY
> > suspicious. It contained an attachment which most likely was a virus.
I
> > deleted it. Some nasty virus probably pulled John's name from an
address
> > book and sent the message to me. It's importent to be vigilant and
alert
> to
> > supicious looking emails.
> >
> > Good luck everyone..!!
> >
> > Randy Dettmer
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Chat virus on list
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> > > nico css wrote:
> > > > I keep getting email from "Chat" with virus files attached. The body
> of
> > the
> > > > email shows it comes from chat(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com. Isn't this
> Chris's
> > old
> > > > list address?
> > >
> > > Someone subscribed to the list has a virus. Many of the current nasty
> > > ones send out email to everyone in their address book and the "From"
> > > address is forged from another entry in the address book. This is a
> > > huge, known hole in microsoft's email client. Should be easy enough
to
> > > find as I can't imagine there are that many chat list members running
> > > Outlook with your address in their book. Take a look everyone and see
> > > if you are the guilty one....
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | DON'T PISS OFF THE SWIFTIES |
Would it qualify as an aviation related article if we tell the senator to fly to
hell? Or that he should fly himself?
So, he wants us to know about Vietnam.... ohn
[Unable to display image]
"During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour of duty
was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the Vietnamization
of the Navy units.
Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I couldn't
go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of the area. When
I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was booming, the
buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with sampans
with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says that our operations
were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal conference with me,
to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never happened..."
-- Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired)
"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions,
and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant.
The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they
had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound
-- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that
appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that
Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline.
I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something
like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch,
and I have no information as to how or whom.
Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few
days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling
them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you
that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and
the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were
under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a
lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of
the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."
-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)
"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably.
Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities.
It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally
or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.
In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and
claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains
-- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared,
running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It
just galls one to think about it."
-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)
"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in
Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with
John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know
is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him
and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made
indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy...
if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect
him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"
-- Steven Gardner
"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces
of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment,
truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of
command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with
gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies.
His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual
review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War
bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political
future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with
disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a 'loose cannon.' In an
abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure,
Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States
forces in the Vietnam War. That included o! ur soldiers, our marines, our
sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs. His leadership within
the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress
in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless
meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course.
Senator Kerry is not fit for command."
-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from Vietnam
in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those cast an
aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in Vietnam.
We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we think
that they're unsupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to the American
people.
We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be the
Commander-in-Chief."
-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
[Unable to display image]
"During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific
operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key, operative
words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his medal-tossing
escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent book portraying
us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war criminals,
I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and their families.
Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for
authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires
constant supervision.'"
-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)
"Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of
sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served
over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and
women who are serving deserve no less."
-- Andrew Horne
[Unable to display image]
"In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols over a 12-month
period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling the atrocities
described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my obligation
to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would certainly have done
that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or participated in these atrocities
or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was obligated to report them. That
he did not until later when it suited his political purposes strikes me as
opportunism of the worst kind. That he would malign my service and that of his
fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him totally unqualified to
serve as Commander-in-Chief."
-- Jeffrey Wainscott
"I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone
who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States
Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this group
here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally the American
public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.
It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We
lost the war at home... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."
-- Robert Elder
[Unable to display image]
"My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.' They wanted
to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the
things that are described happened.
Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about something
called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In Kerry's description
of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that were
wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first..."
-- Joseph Ponder
[Unable to display image]
"Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and allegations...
of numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited
by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had
war crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few
and far between. Yet Lt. Kerry have numerous speeches and testimony before Congress
inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an
anomaly in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore,
he suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by those
within the chain of command.
Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech University,
were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of command
instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life and property
of Vietnamese civilians."
-- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired)
[Unable to display image]
"We look at Vietnam... after all these years it is still languishing in isolated
poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's legacy. I deeply
resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his betrayal of those
who fought there as a stepping-stone to his political ambitions."
-- Barnard Wolff
"In a whole year that I spent patrolling, I didn't see anything like a war crime,
an atrocity, anything like that. Time and again I saw American fighting men
put themselves in graver danger trying to avoid... collateral damage.
When John Kerry returned to the country, he was sworn in front of Congress. And
then he told my family -- my parents, my sister, my brother, my neighbors --
he told everyone I knew and everyone I'd ever know that I and my comrades had
committed unspeakable atrocities."
-- David Wallace
"I was in An Thoi from June of '68 to June of '69, covering the whole period that
John Kerry was there. I operated in every river, in every canal, and every
off-shore patrol area in the 4th Corps area, from Cambodia all the way around
to the Bo De River. I never saw, even heard of all of these so-called atrocities
and things that we were supposed to have done.
This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record straight."
-- William Shumadine
"In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam veterans as
thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees, because even
though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never witnessed
or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I strongly
believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only false and
inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in Southeast Asia
and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans, scorned by the antiwar
movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and suicide. Two
of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no forgiveness. "
-- Richard O'Meara
"I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969. My service
was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine months with
Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the same time
I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over 33 years,
about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.
All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to tell my
two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees who are
on the Wall were then and are still now the best."
-- Robert Brant
"I never saw, heard of, or participated in any Swift boat crews killing cattle,
poisoning crops, or raping and killing civilians as charged by John Kerry, both
in his book and in public statements. Since we both operated at the same time,
in the same general area, and on the same missions under the same commanders,
it is hard to believe his claims of atrocities and poor planning of Sea Lord
missions.
I signed this letter because I feel that he used Swift boat sailors to proclaim
his antiwar statements after the war, and now he uses the same Swift boat sailors
to support his claims of being a war hero. He cannot have it both ways, and
we are here to ask for full disclosure of the proof of his claims."
-- James Steffes
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May 10, 2004 - July 28, 2004
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bg