Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bi
October 09, 2004 - December 17, 2004
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bi
October 09, 2004 - December 17, 2004
> >
> > God belongs in all places and lest you forget, You would not be here if
> > not
> > for God. Better take him with your where ever you go. You will
probably
> > need him. Can't humble your self to that fact. Well hang around awhile
> > and
> > he'll help you.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 10/7/2004 8:13:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >> rocket(at)swmrmc.org writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> To my knowledge this is an aviation (twin commander) oriented list.
> >>
> >> Religion belongs in the heart, the home, and church. Not on this list.
> >>
> >> Not everyone who peruses this forum is a Christian and not everyone is
> >> as
> >> devoutly religious as some.
> >>
> >> This most recent diatribe about a Christian prater group is
> > innappropriate
> >> and offensive.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> I missed the original post (Was doing a prey-buy on a 560F) I PRAY
EVER
> >> TIME I FLY, EVERY TIME. I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU DO TOO. If anyone on
> > this list
> >> is in the least offended by the mention of prayer, I suggest you find
> > another
> >> aviation list. You are not required to accept any other opinion, but
> > when
> >> it comes to prayer, you would be strongly advised to do so, it works.
> > God
> >> Bless Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: re: Prayer
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Not going too. How does that hit you Martoni
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
> I'll second that motion that this religious BS is inappropriate in this
> group which is supposed to be aircraft oriented, not politically or
> religiously.
> The atheist, agnostics and those you regard as heathens seem to get along
> just fine in this world without your version of God or Religion, and have
> done so for far longer than your version of God and Religion has been
> around; and lest you forget, if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
> center of the universe; so take it to your church where it belongs and
lets
> get back to airplanes!
>
> Luc Martini
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> >
> > God belongs in all places and lest you forget, You would not be here if
> > not
> > for God. Better take him with your where ever you go. You will
probably
> > need him. Can't humble your self to that fact. Well hang around awhile
> > and
> > he'll help you.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 10/7/2004 8:13:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >> rocket(at)swmrmc.org writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> To my knowledge this is an aviation (twin commander) oriented list.
> >>
> >> Religion belongs in the heart, the home, and church. Not on this list.
> >>
> >> Not everyone who peruses this forum is a Christian and not everyone is
> >> as
> >> devoutly religious as some.
> >>
> >> This most recent diatribe about a Christian prater group is
> > innappropriate
> >> and offensive.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> I missed the original post (Was doing a prey-buy on a 560F) I PRAY
EVER
> >> TIME I FLY, EVERY TIME. I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU DO TOO. If anyone on
> > this list
> >> is in the least offended by the mention of prayer, I suggest you find
> > another
> >> aviation list. You are not required to accept any other opinion, but
> > when
> >> it comes to prayer, you would be strongly advised to do so, it works.
> > God
> >> Bless Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: re: Prayer
In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
martinil(at)comcast.net writes:
if science was left in the hand of your
religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
center of the universe;
Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science. The
scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth" Hardly
flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It goes on
the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't that
how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right?? Sorry to
hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information here.
Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: re: Prayer
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those in
"time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet the
Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run thought
with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered universe"
etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages fluently, I
can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers, haven't
got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the words
of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes back
only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each by
bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine engineering,
and let's see gets to hell first.
Martini
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> martinil(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
> center of the universe;
>
>
> Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science.
> The
> scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth" Hardly
> flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> goes on
> the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't
> that
> how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> Sorry to
> hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information
> here.
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Boelte" <n55bz@cox-internet.com>
Subject: re: Prayer
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Vaya con Dios.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martini
Luc J.R.
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those
in
"time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet
the
Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run
thought
with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered
universe"
etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages fluently,
I
can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers,
haven't
got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the
words
of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes
back
only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each
by
bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine
engineering,
and let's see gets to hell first.
Martini
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> martinil(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and
the
> center of the universe;
>
>
> Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with
science.
> The
> scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth"
Hardly
> flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> goes on
> the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow,
isn't
> that
> how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> Sorry to
> hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great
information
> here.
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
>
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: re: Prayer
Date: Oct 09, 2004
I call B***S***. If you are all that you say you are. How do you think you
got here in the first place. Did buzzard crap you on a rock and the sun
hatch you. I think you are a legend in your own mind. I have faith that you
will know in the end and then it will be to late for you. Where do you
think this all came from. I fine man with your intelligence should have an
answer for that with the superb education you say you have. It always
amazes me that a person can have all the intelligence in the world and still
not have brain one. I think you may be caught up in the big me me me I I I
syndrome. Your me me me I I I last only as long as the Supreme God will
allow. I'll keep my eye open for your flame out. Good Luck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
> Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
> By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
> which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those in
> "time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet
the
> Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run
thought
> with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
> opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered
universe"
> etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages fluently, I
> can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers,
haven't
> got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
> sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
> reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the
words
> of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes back
> only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each by
> bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
> And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine engineering,
> and let's see gets to hell first.
>
> Martini
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > martinil(at)comcast.net writes:
> >
> > if science was left in the hand of your
> > religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and
the
> > center of the universe;
> >
> >
> > Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science.
> > The
> > scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth"
Hardly
> > flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> > goes on
> > the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't
> > that
> > how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> > Sorry to
> > hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information
> > here.
> > Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: re: Prayer
Date: Oct 09, 2004
It's misconceptions that warps the truth.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> martinil(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
> center of the universe;
>
>
> Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science.
The
> scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth" Hardly
> flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
goes on
> the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't
that
> how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
Sorry to
> hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information
here.
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Oh come on, Martini.
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Oh come on, Martini.
If you want to leave, it would be a pity but that's your privilege Let's
just put some facts on the table before you do so, ok? If you don't believe
what the Bible says, that's fine, and getting all hot under the collar,
insulting folks, will not bring anyone anywhere. This is why I believe what
the Bible teaches, for what it is worth.
We study the scriptures in the ancient languages, Hebrew and Greek, and
verify and alter what the translations say about it. If one would only
believe what is taught in English, it would not necessarily alter the
overall doctrine, but literary unity of what was written is almost always
lost. You may ask why is the literary unity important? It is for the very
sake of proving that the scriptures are true. Without this we are reduced to
supernatural dogma and you may, rightly so, believe that we are a bunch of
bigots. However, if you look at the principles, you will see that its
testimony is true, even for a rational scrutiny.
This is what I mean:
There are five principles upon which the interpretation (or call it belief)
of the scriptures rest:
1. The testimony of two or more witnesses.
2. Prophecy and outcome.
3. The thread of salvation history running throughout the entire book.
4. Miracles that were testified that happened.
5. Consistent signs and metaphors.
It is a lengthy lecture to explain all five principles in detail, with which
I will not bore you. Suffice to briefly summarize them as follows, so that
you may grasp the concept that Christians and Jews have very good, solid
reasons for believing as they do.
1. Nowhere, ever, is there any declaration of doctrine that is not verified
by other, independent witnesses. (Granted, these witnesses are all found in
the Bible, but I will come to that in point 5.) Our society and legal system
rely heavily on witnesses; the Bible does the same thing.
2. If a someone foretells that something will happen, and it happens exactly
in that manner, then such a person is called a prophet. The difference
between accurately forecasting something (which appears to be the same thing
as prophecy) and being a prophet in Biblical terms is that forecasting is a
process of deductive reasoning, which cannot be 100% accurate, while
Biblical prophecy by true prophets are error free. That sets them apart from
other self-declared prophets in history.
3. The scriptures speak consistently, from the very beginning to the very
end, about one thing in principle and one thing only, and that is that God
gathers for himself a people who will glorify him out of their own free
will, forever. Any deviation from that is false, such as the teachings of
Islam, the Roman Catholic Church, the Mormons, and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
They, and many others, are in varying degrees, guilty of adding to or
subtracting from what is writing in the scriptures and it is clearly
discernable if one cares to look at the original languages also.
4. Miracles are the most difficult thing to explain and their occurrences
are based upon all the points mentioned. It will need more time and space
that we have here to do justice to the topic.
5. In the original languages, there is a diverse, yet brilliant poetry and
imagery that fits the same template throughout the Bible. Any falsification,
regardless of how minute, is immediately discernable. Witnesses testify in a
particular manner, back then and even today. It is common practice for a
linguist to identify whether something was written by one person, or whether
another tampered with the writing or added to it. It is a scientific process
that is used in our courts today. So, we are able to determine that the
different witnesses actually wrote these accounts of what they saw, hear,
and experienced. The fact that the scriptures were not written by one person
or a committee, is an established fact, which makes the testimony of it
indisputable.
The Bible teaches a unique doctrine; the only one that admonishes its
proponents to not believe slavishly, but go and find out whether what it
says is true. If one finds that it is not true, the Gospel demands that you
leave but if you find it is true, it is equally adamant that you should
believe what it says. The same principle goes for the "flat earth" routine.
If you stray above 1,500' evidence that the earth is flat begins to
disappear. If you don't want to go high enough to observe the truth, that's
ok, but if you do, whether you are at ground level or not, you are compelled
to believe.
So, Martini, we are not at all bigots. We have good reason to believe what
the scriptures teach. There are many hypocrites among us and they do not
care if they kill others, I am referring to the terrible things that have
been done in Christ's name. Surely, that is not Christianity. Just as I know
what the Quran says and from that can make reasonable predictions about how
a Muslim would interact with me, so I am able to categorically say that
Christians are humble, honest folks, based on what the Bible teaches. Those
who act outside of what the Bible teaches cannot be called Christians and
they act contrary to Christ's teachings. However, having said that, we also
acknowledge that we are loaded down with faults and sin, which could cause
others on the outside to believe that we are a bunch of hypocrites.
Stay with the list if you wish, we are just a happy bunch who likes to talk
about what is dear to us. Aviation is one of them, Commanders is another.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
> Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
> By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
> which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those in
> "time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet
the
> Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run
thought
> with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
> opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered
universe"
> etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages fluently, I
> can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers,
haven't
> got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
> sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
> reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the
words
> of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes back
> only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each by
> bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
> And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine engineering,
> and let's see gets to hell first.
>
> Martini
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > martinil(at)comcast.net writes:
> >
> > if science was left in the hand of your
> > religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and
the
> > center of the universe;
> >
> >
> > Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science.
> > The
> > scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth"
Hardly
> > flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> > goes on
> > the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't
> > that
> > how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> > Sorry to
> > hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information
> > here.
> > Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Subject: Re: Oh come on, Martini.
In a message dated 10/9/2004 10:26:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Stay with the list if you wish, we are just a happy bunch who likes to talk
about what is dear to us. Aviation is one of them, Commanders is another.
THANKS NICO....That was amazing!! How is you Commander doing these days??
________________________________________________________________________________
From: RnJThompson(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Subject: Re: Oh come on, Martini.
Gentlemen,
ENOUGH.
Every man is entitled to his own beliefs.
GETTING BACK TO THE SUBJECT OF MR SMITHS AEOPLANES PLEASE.
Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
From: RnJThompson(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Subject: Re:Heater parts
Anybody know the email address or phone number of the heater boys. I think
they called themselves Aircrfat Heating or something. I need to get hold of some
Janitrol parts reasonably quickly. The parts are not easily availiable down
here in OZ.
Regards
Richard
(680Es Rule along with Super Cubs)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2004
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Prayer
Gentlemen and Ladies:
It would be nice if all of those who are interested could get back to Mr Eisners
original request of having a minute of prayer over the decision this GREAT country
is about to partake. (I hope I have not offended anyone calling this a
GREAT country).
We can always pray for the non believers amongst us. Most of the time I find them
to be very nice and well meaning individuals, with whom I enjoy discussing
subjects such as Commanders.
May I paraphrase the Bible now and suggest "we stomp the dust from our feet" and
move away from this divisive issue.
I believe Mr. Einsner suggested 9:00am ET, 8CT, 7MT and 6PT.
To the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Ted Smith and Twin Commanders!!!
In Christ.
dan farmer
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re:Heater parts
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Jim Bob,
You left a bit too early!
Friday evening a chap flying a beautiful Tiger Moth experienced a gear
failure on take-off from Peachtree City Falcon field. (albeit unknown to
him.) Witnesses on the ground saw his problem and phoned his home strip to
alert them to the problem.
He's based at a strip near mine, and I know him.
As he returned to his strip everyone was out waving at him, trying to let
him know he had a gear problem, and not being able to decipher what they
were waving about, he waved back!
He decided to drop in and see what was happening at my strip and came in for
a landing. I saw him just as the gear had touched (beautiful landing) and
suddenly the left main gear collapsed!
It dug in and spun the plane 180 degress and started sliding toward my
hanger before coming to rest at the edge of the designated grass runway.
He was able to keep the prop from touching and did a marvelous job of
handling a 'quick and dirty' emergency.
Later inspection showed that a casting that holds the gear together had
failed.
The only damage to the plane was a couple of broken nose ribs to the
outboard leading edge of the left wing!
He also exceeded the right rudder stop--can you say adrenaline!!!
Somehow the local news stations got wind of the incident and were spouting,
"Plane Crash In Coweta County!" "A vintage biplane made an emergency crash
landing at Big T airport when the pilot was unable to get his landing gear
down!" Gee, must have been a slow news night.
My hanger is now housing a Commander 560F, a RV-8, and a slightly injured
Tiger Moth. (Richard, it was restored by a gent to the exact configuration
of the one he first soloed in Australia!)
It appears the aviation community is a tighly-knit, world wide group!
Jim Crunkleton
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Subject: Re:Heater parts
In a message dated 10/10/2004 4:37:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
RnJThompson(at)aol.com writes:
The parts are not easily availiable down
here in OZ.
AIRCRAFT ENVIROMENTAL SYSTEMS
GRIFFIN GA 1-866- WARMAIR (927-6247) Thgey were a the flyin in SC. Great
folks!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Subject: Re:Heater parts
Sorry I missed all the action!! Glad he is OK. Jim, I desperately need
some info. I forgot to get the dates and tach times for the installation of
each engine and I wrote the serial number down twice (I somehow didn't get both
S/Ns for the engines). I cant finish the report without that info. Sorry
to have been so scatterbrained, it must be this stinking cold!! Thanks for
you earliest reply. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: re: Prayer
Date: Oct 10, 2004
More people have died in the name of god than from any other cause.
The intolerance of the so called "Christian" writing the words below are
so typical of the loudest of Bible thumpers.
I don't think this is what Jesus had in mind!
J.P. Stubbs
> [Original Message]
> From: Bobby Sather <sather(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Date: 10/9/2004 11:38:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> I call B***S***. If you are all that you say you are. How do you think
you
> got here in the first place. Did buzzard crap you on a rock and the sun
> hatch you. I think you are a legend in your own mind. I have faith that
you
> will know in the end and then it will be to late for you. Where do you
> think this all came from. I fine man with your intelligence should have
an
> answer for that with the superb education you say you have. It always
> amazes me that a person can have all the intelligence in the world and
still
> not have brain one. I think you may be caught up in the big me me me I I
I
> syndrome. Your me me me I I I last only as long as the Supreme God will
> allow. I'll keep my eye open for your flame out. Good Luck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
>
> >
> > Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
> > By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
> > which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those
in
> > "time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet
> the
> > Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run
> thought
> > with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
> > opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered
> universe"
> > etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages
fluently, I
> > can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers,
> haven't
> > got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
> > sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
> > reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the
> words
> > of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes
back
> > only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each
by
> > bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
> > And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine
engineering,
> > and let's see gets to hell first.
> >
> > Martini
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > martinil(at)comcast.net writes:
> > >
> > > if science was left in the hand of your
> > > religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and
> the
> > > center of the universe;
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with
science.
> > > The
> > > scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth"
> Hardly
> > > flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> > > goes on
> > > the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow,
isn't
> > > that
> > > how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> > > Sorry to
> > > hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great
information
> > > here.
> > > Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: re: Prayer
Date: Oct 10, 2004
One needs to check the "owners manual", just like in your plane, to see what
the operating procedures are. Misuse them and you will come unstuck.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
> More people have died in the name of god than from any other cause.
> The intolerance of the so called "Christian" writing the words below are
> so typical of the loudest of Bible thumpers.
> I don't think this is what Jesus had in mind!
> J.P. Stubbs
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Bobby Sather <sather(at)charter.net>
> > To:
> > Date: 10/9/2004 11:38:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> >
> >
> > I call B***S***. If you are all that you say you are. How do you think
> you
> > got here in the first place. Did buzzard crap you on a rock and the sun
> > hatch you. I think you are a legend in your own mind. I have faith that
> you
> > will know in the end and then it will be to late for you. Where do you
> > think this all came from. I fine man with your intelligence should have
> an
> > answer for that with the superb education you say you have. It always
> > amazes me that a person can have all the intelligence in the world and
> still
> > not have brain one. I think you may be caught up in the big me me me I
I
> I
> > syndrome. Your me me me I I I last only as long as the Supreme God will
> > allow. I'll keep my eye open for your flame out. Good Luck
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil(at)comcast.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
> > > By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to
(of
> > > which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those
> in
> > > "time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later;
yet
> > the
> > > Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run
> > thought
> > > with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had
other
> > > opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered
> > universe"
> > > etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages
> fluently, I
> > > can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers,
> > haven't
> > > got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
> > > sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you
are
> > > reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the
> > words
> > > of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes
> back
> > > only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations,
each
> by
> > > bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
> > > And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine
> engineering,
> > > and let's see gets to hell first.
> > >
> > > Martini
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > > martinil(at)comcast.net writes:
> > > >
> > > > if science was left in the hand of your
> > > > religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat
and
> > the
> > > > center of the universe;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with
> science.
> > > > The
> > > > scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth"
> > Hardly
> > > > flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that.
It
> > > > goes on
> > > > the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow,
> isn't
> > > > that
> > > > how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it
right??
> > > > Sorry to
> > > > hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great
> information
> > > > here.
> > > > Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Oh come on, Martini.
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Still sorry that I had to let her go. The project that I am seeking funding
for now (I have a presentation to make to venture capitalists on the 20th)
will change many things. It will hit the press big time, too.
I will keep you guys informed. It might lead to a -10.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oh come on, Martini.
>
>
> In a message dated 10/9/2004 10:26:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Stay with the list if you wish, we are just a happy bunch who likes to
talk
> about what is dear to us. Aviation is one of them, Commanders is another.
>
>
> THANKS NICO....That was amazing!! How is you Commander doing these
days??
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Barry Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net>
Subject: Disturbed
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Gang,
I have followed the most recent thread with interest turned to
disappointment turned to horror. As much as this list is about
Commanders and aviation, it is also about the people that fly (and by
default LOVE) these wonderful machines.
DISAPPOINTMENT
Martini, I don't know you, you don't know me. However, the question is
why such intolerance? Obviously your views differ from others as well.
That's OK. Why is it not OK for people to voice views that run
contrary to yours? Why is it necessary to challenge people that they
are going to hell for holding those beliefs? Instead of condemning
others, wouldn't it be more productive to simply espouse your own
beliefs?
HORROR
If we proclaim that we are a son of God, would it not follow then that
we would treat all others the same? Namely with compassion and
understanding? It is one thing to boldly proclaim the gospel, it is
quite another to predict and even anticipate others demise. The gospel
of Jesus Christ is one of optimism, hope, love, and opportunity beyond
our wildest dreams, not fire and brimstone.
We would all do much better to focus on being honest, true, chaste,
benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men than to take pot
shots from behind the keyboards of Commander land. If you don't like
what someone posts, don't get personal, use your right to hit the
delete key!
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Very well said, Barry. As I said, read the Christian's owner's manual if you
want to establish whether one's a Christian. It goes for other doctrines
also. Read the Quran (their owner's manual) if you want to know what are we
doing in Iraq.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Disturbed
>
> Gang,
>
> I have followed the most recent thread with interest turned to
> disappointment turned to horror. As much as this list is about
> Commanders and aviation, it is also about the people that fly (and by
> default LOVE) these wonderful machines.
>
> DISAPPOINTMENT
>
> Martini, I don't know you, you don't know me. However, the question is
> why such intolerance? Obviously your views differ from others as well.
> That's OK. Why is it not OK for people to voice views that run
> contrary to yours? Why is it necessary to challenge people that they
> are going to hell for holding those beliefs? Instead of condemning
> others, wouldn't it be more productive to simply espouse your own
> beliefs?
>
> HORROR
>
> If we proclaim that we are a son of God, would it not follow then that
> we would treat all others the same? Namely with compassion and
> understanding? It is one thing to boldly proclaim the gospel, it is
> quite another to predict and even anticipate others demise. The gospel
> of Jesus Christ is one of optimism, hope, love, and opportunity beyond
> our wildest dreams, not fire and brimstone.
>
> We would all do much better to focus on being honest, true, chaste,
> benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men than to take pot
> shots from behind the keyboards of Commander land. If you don't like
> what someone posts, don't get personal, use your right to hit the
> delete key!
>
> Barry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Date: Oct 11, 2004
CHASTE!
Oh no!!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Disturbed
>
> Gang,
>
> I have followed the most recent thread with interest turned to
> disappointment turned to horror. As much as this list is about
> Commanders and aviation, it is also about the people that fly (and by
> default LOVE) these wonderful machines.
>
> DISAPPOINTMENT
>
> Martini, I don't know you, you don't know me. However, the question is
> why such intolerance? Obviously your views differ from others as well.
> That's OK. Why is it not OK for people to voice views that run
> contrary to yours? Why is it necessary to challenge people that they
> are going to hell for holding those beliefs? Instead of condemning
> others, wouldn't it be more productive to simply espouse your own
> beliefs?
>
> HORROR
>
> If we proclaim that we are a son of God, would it not follow then that
> we would treat all others the same? Namely with compassion and
> understanding? It is one thing to boldly proclaim the gospel, it is
> quite another to predict and even anticipate others demise. The gospel
> of Jesus Christ is one of optimism, hope, love, and opportunity beyond
> our wildest dreams, not fire and brimstone.
>
> We would all do much better to focus on being honest, true, chaste,
> benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men than to take pot
> shots from behind the keyboards of Commander land. If you don't like
> what someone posts, don't get personal, use your right to hit the
> delete key!
>
> Barry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Rodriguez Colom" <jamesrodriguez(at)bppr.com>
Date: Oct 11, 2004
Subject: re: Prayer
Bilbo,
We missed you in KC. Well said.
Jimmy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Boelte
Subject: RE: Commander-List: re: Prayer
<n55bz@cox-internet.com>
Vaya con Dios.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martini
Luc J.R.
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those
in
"time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet
the
Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run
thought
with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered
universe"
etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages fluently,
I
can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers,
haven't
got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the
words
of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes
back
only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each
by
bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine
engineering,
and let's see gets to hell first.
Martini
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> martinil(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and
the
> center of the universe;
>
>
> Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with
science.
> The
> scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth"
Hardly
> flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> goes on
> the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow,
isn't
> that
> how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> Sorry to
> hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great
information
> here.
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
>
>
==
==
==
==
==
==
==
==
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that may be privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: PARTS AVAILABLE
Date: Oct 11, 2004
IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I HAVE THE FOLLOWING AVAILABLE THAT HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM
MY 680FP:
BOSE I HEADSET X 1
BOSE II HEADSET X 1
PARKER HANIFIN BRAKE PADS 066-09100 X 8
SENNHEISER RS6 WIRELESS HEAD PHONE SYSTEM X 4
COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR 3298-7M/M522-3908 X 1
BENDIX HSI TYPE 1903711-1 X 1
MOTOROLA AUTO PILOT MOD 587D COMPLETE SYSTEM TO INCLUDE SERVOS ETC. X 1
BENDIX RADAR INDICATOR 4000946-5201 X 1
HYDROLIC PRESSURE GAGE 0-2000 SKYDROL X 1
ADF INDICATOR IN 21B RECEIVER R-30A X 1
DYNAVERTER DV-14A X
ARC CON VERTER B-13A-1 X 1
ARC RECEIVER R34A X 1
VOLT METER SYSTEM X 1
MELETRON PRESSURE ACTUATOR SWITCH X 1
KN R 601 VOR/LOC RECEIVER 66-1030-00 X 1
GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPASS AMPLIFIER 8KE26AD2 X 1
BENDIX FUEL FLOW TRANSMITTER D193-54-A1 X 2
PRESTOLIGHT STARTER MHW 4004 X 2
HARTZELL PROP HUB UNIT X 2
STUFF
PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ANY FOR THE ITEMS. MASON CHEVAILLIER
817-877-4977 OR 817-517-4977.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: PARTS AVAILABLE
Date: Oct 11, 2004
Forgive me for chiming in, but what's left?
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
>
> IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I HAVE THE FOLLOWING AVAILABLE THAT HAS BEEN
REMOVED FROM MY 680FP:
>
>
> BOSE I HEADSET X 1
> BOSE II HEADSET X 1
> PARKER HANIFIN BRAKE PADS 066-09100 X 8
> SENNHEISER RS6 WIRELESS HEAD PHONE SYSTEM X 4
> COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR 3298-7M/M522-3908 X 1
> BENDIX HSI TYPE 1903711-1 X 1
> MOTOROLA AUTO PILOT MOD 587D COMPLETE SYSTEM TO INCLUDE SERVOS ETC.
X 1
> BENDIX RADAR INDICATOR 4000946-5201 X 1
> HYDROLIC PRESSURE GAGE 0-2000 SKYDROL X 1
> ADF INDICATOR IN 21B RECEIVER R-30A X 1
> DYNAVERTER DV-14A X
> ARC CON VERTER B-13A-1 X 1
> ARC RECEIVER R34A X 1
> VOLT METER SYSTEM X 1
> MELETRON PRESSURE ACTUATOR SWITCH X 1
> KN R 601 VOR/LOC RECEIVER 66-1030-00 X 1
> GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPASS AMPLIFIER 8KE26AD2 X 1
> BENDIX FUEL FLOW TRANSMITTER D193-54-A1 X 2
> PRESTOLIGHT STARTER MHW 4004 X 2
> HARTZELL PROP HUB UNIT X 2
> STUFF
>
>
> PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ANY FOR THE ITEMS. MASON
CHEVAILLIER 817-877-4977 OR 817-517-4977.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: PARTS AVAILABLE
Date: Oct 11, 2004
NUCO, A REALLY NICE 680FP. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Subject: Re: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
Forgive me for chiming in, but what's left?
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
>
> IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I HAVE THE FOLLOWING AVAILABLE THAT HAS BEEN
REMOVED FROM MY 680FP:
>
>
> BOSE I HEADSET X 1
> BOSE II HEADSET X 1
> PARKER HANIFIN BRAKE PADS 066-09100 X 8
> SENNHEISER RS6 WIRELESS HEAD PHONE SYSTEM X 4
> COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR 3298-7M/M522-3908 X 1
> BENDIX HSI TYPE 1903711-1 X 1
> MOTOROLA AUTO PILOT MOD 587D COMPLETE SYSTEM TO INCLUDE SERVOS ETC
X 1
> BENDIX RADAR INDICATOR 4000946-5201 X 1
> HYDROLIC PRESSURE GAGE 0-2000 SKYDROL X 1
> ADF INDICATOR IN 21B RECEIVER R-30A X 1
> DYNAVERTER DV-14A X
> ARC CON VERTER B-13A-1 X 1
> ARC RECEIVER R34A X 1
> VOLT METER SYSTEM X 1
> MELETRON PRESSURE ACTUATOR SWITCH X 1
> KN R 601 VOR/LOC RECEIVER 66-1030-00 X 1
> GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPASS AMPLIFIER 8KE26AD2 X 1
> BENDIX FUEL FLOW TRANSMITTER D193-54-A1 X 2
> PRESTOLIGHT STARTER MHW 4004 X 2
> HARTZELL PROP HUB UNIT X 2
> STUFF
>
>
> PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ANY FOR THE ITEMS. MASON
CHEVAILLIER 817-877-4977 OR 817-517-4977.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: PARTS AVAILABLE
Date: Oct 11, 2004
I am sure. You know I was just kidding. I have very fond memories flying
ZS-SSN in South Africa.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
>
> NUCO, A REALLY NICE 680FP. MASON
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nico css
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
>
>
> Forgive me for chiming in, but what's left?
> :-)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
> To: "commander-list"
> Subject: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
>
>
> >
> > IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I HAVE THE FOLLOWING AVAILABLE THAT HAS BEEN
> REMOVED FROM MY 680FP:
> >
> >
> > BOSE I HEADSET X 1
> > BOSE II HEADSET X 1
> > PARKER HANIFIN BRAKE PADS 066-09100 X 8
> > SENNHEISER RS6 WIRELESS HEAD PHONE SYSTEM X 4
> > COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR 3298-7M/M522-3908 X 1
> > BENDIX HSI TYPE 1903711-1 X 1
> > MOTOROLA AUTO PILOT MOD 587D COMPLETE SYSTEM TO INCLUDE SERVOS ETC
> X 1
> > BENDIX RADAR INDICATOR 4000946-5201 X 1
> > HYDROLIC PRESSURE GAGE 0-2000 SKYDROL X 1
> > ADF INDICATOR IN 21B RECEIVER R-30A X 1
> > DYNAVERTER DV-14A X
> > ARC CON VERTER B-13A-1 X 1
> > ARC RECEIVER R34A X 1
> > VOLT METER SYSTEM X 1
> > MELETRON PRESSURE ACTUATOR SWITCH X 1
> > KN R 601 VOR/LOC RECEIVER 66-1030-00 X 1
> > GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPASS AMPLIFIER 8KE26AD2 X 1
> > BENDIX FUEL FLOW TRANSMITTER D193-54-A1 X 2
> > PRESTOLIGHT STARTER MHW 4004 X 2
> > HARTZELL PROP HUB UNIT X 2
> > STUFF
> >
> >
> > PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ANY FOR THE ITEMS. MASON
> CHEVAILLIER 817-877-4977 OR 817-517-4977.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve>
Subject: PARTS AVAILABLE
Date: Oct 11, 2004
How about the Bose Headsets??
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON
CHEVAILLIER
Subject: Re: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
NUCO, A REALLY NICE 680FP. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Subject: Re: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
Forgive me for chiming in, but what's left?
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
>
> IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I HAVE THE FOLLOWING AVAILABLE THAT HAS BEEN
REMOVED FROM MY 680FP:
>
>
> BOSE I HEADSET X 1
> BOSE II HEADSET X 1
> PARKER HANIFIN BRAKE PADS 066-09100 X 8
> SENNHEISER RS6 WIRELESS HEAD PHONE SYSTEM X 4
> COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR 3298-7M/M522-3908 X 1
> BENDIX HSI TYPE 1903711-1 X 1
> MOTOROLA AUTO PILOT MOD 587D COMPLETE SYSTEM TO INCLUDE SERVOS ETC
X 1
> BENDIX RADAR INDICATOR 4000946-5201 X 1
> HYDROLIC PRESSURE GAGE 0-2000 SKYDROL X 1
> ADF INDICATOR IN 21B RECEIVER R-30A X 1
> DYNAVERTER DV-14A X
> ARC CON VERTER B-13A-1 X 1
> ARC RECEIVER R34A X 1
> VOLT METER SYSTEM X 1
> MELETRON PRESSURE ACTUATOR SWITCH X 1
> KN R 601 VOR/LOC RECEIVER 66-1030-00 X 1
> GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPASS AMPLIFIER 8KE26AD2 X 1
> BENDIX FUEL FLOW TRANSMITTER D193-54-A1 X 2
> PRESTOLIGHT STARTER MHW 4004 X 2
> HARTZELL PROP HUB UNIT X 2
> STUFF
>
>
> PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ANY FOR THE ITEMS. MASON
CHEVAILLIER 817-877-4977 OR 817-517-4977.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2004
From: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: PARTS AVAILABLE
Mason,
Could you give me details of all the Collins FD components, including pics,
if possible.
My email is
Cheers,
Bill hamilton.
At 02:44 12/10/2004, you wrote:
>
>IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I HAVE THE FOLLOWING AVAILABLE THAT HAS BEEN
>REMOVED FROM MY 680FP:
>
>
>BOSE I HEADSET X 1
>BOSE II HEADSET X 1
>PARKER HANIFIN BRAKE PADS 066-09100 X 8
>SENNHEISER RS6 WIRELESS HEAD PHONE SYSTEM X 4
>COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR 3298-7M/M522-3908 X 1
>BENDIX HSI TYPE 1903711-1 X 1
>MOTOROLA AUTO PILOT MOD 587D COMPLETE SYSTEM TO INCLUDE SERVOS ETC. X 1
>BENDIX RADAR INDICATOR 4000946-5201 X 1
>HYDROLIC PRESSURE GAGE 0-2000 SKYDROL X 1
>ADF INDICATOR IN 21B RECEIVER R-30A X 1
> DYNAVERTER DV-14A X
>ARC CON VERTER B-13A-1 X 1
>ARC RECEIVER R34A X 1
>VOLT METER SYSTEM X 1
>MELETRON PRESSURE ACTUATOR SWITCH X 1
>KN R 601 VOR/LOC RECEIVER 66-1030-00 X 1
>GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPASS AMPLIFIER 8KE26AD2 X 1
>BENDIX FUEL FLOW TRANSMITTER D193-54-A1 X 2
>PRESTOLIGHT STARTER MHW 4004 X 2
>HARTZELL PROP HUB UNIT X 2
>STUFF
>
>
>PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ANY FOR THE ITEMS. MASON
>CHEVAILLIER 817-877-4977 OR 817-517-4977.
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
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and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Coons" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net>
Subject: Fly-in
Date: Oct 17, 2004
Alan,
Sorry I missed you at the fly-in. I woke with a severe headache on 9-24 and
knew I was not safe to fly. Went to the ER on 9-25 and was admitted for
three days for viral meningitis. I have finally recovered, but I can't
recall ever feeling so poorly.
I am currently working on a consulting contract at Toyota Motor Mfg. North
America. The project will run through 12-31. As a result, I am only free on
weekends for the time being. I am open to coming out on a Friday afternoon
flying with you over the weekend and returning home on Sunday. The next
three weekends are not good for me, but after that I am open.
How is the new position treating you? Have you been to Russia yet or will
you have a chance to go? Since I married an eastern European woman who grew
up behind the Iron Curtain I have always wanted to go to Russia. I have been
to Hungary, Romania, and the Ukraine I really enjoyed traveling to these
countries.
Let me know what you'd like to do.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Kucheck
Subject: Commander-List: Bob Hoover rolling and pouring
Does anyone have a link to the video of Bob Hoover doing a roll while
pouring himself a cup of tea [or something]? I thought it was available on
the Victor Aviation site, but can't find it there.
Looking forward to seeing everyone in a week!
Thanks,
Alan
---
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fly-in
Date: Oct 17, 2004
From: "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com>
Kevin:
Jeez! When you get sick you really do it. Sorry, man.
A weekend would work for me; I just have to find one free. Russia: trying to get
to St. Petersburg - looking like December. Brrrr. In between, I will probably
be taking some Russian classes on the weekends [scheduling issue for us].
Once I have the classes nailed I will send you a couple of candidate weekends.
What is the deal with your guys in Pomona? Nuthin' yet?
Hope you are feeling better now.
ak
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Coons [mailto:kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net]
Sent: Sun 10/17/2004 6:59 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Cc:
Subject: Commander-List: Fly-in
Alan,
Sorry I missed you at the fly-in. I woke with a severe headache on 9-24
and
knew I was not safe to fly. Went to the ER on 9-25 and was admitted for
three days for viral meningitis. I have finally recovered, but I can't
recall ever feeling so poorly.
I am currently working on a consulting contract at Toyota Motor Mfg. North
America. The project will run through 12-31. As a result, I am only free
on
weekends for the time being. I am open to coming out on a Friday afternoon
flying with you over the weekend and returning home on Sunday. The next
three weekends are not good for me, but after that I am open.
How is the new position treating you? Have you been to Russia yet or will
you have a chance to go? Since I married an eastern European woman who
grew
up behind the Iron Curtain I have always wanted to go to Russia. I have
been
to Hungary, Romania, and the Ukraine I really enjoyed traveling to these
countries.
Let me know what you'd like to do.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Kucheck
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Bob Hoover rolling and pouring
Does anyone have a link to the video of Bob Hoover doing a roll while
pouring himself a cup of tea [or something]? I thought it was available
on
the Victor Aviation site, but can't find it there.
Looking forward to seeing everyone in a week!
Thanks,
Alan
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
Date: Oct 18, 2004
in its proper context. I left the comments of previous readers in place, including
that of senator Mike Fair. This is SO important that one should take the
time to read it and understand what's at stake here. If you could forward this,
it will reach a larger audience.
Nico
I just recieved this. I always thought Krauthammer was extremely smart but didn't
know his background. Republican or Democrat,this is a MUST READ !!!!
Max
[First let me say that that Mr. Krauthammer's article (below) is extremely
important, both for its content and for what it says about the morality of the
Kerry/Edwards campaign. What I am saying about him, I hope will create enough
interest in his article and encourage you to forward it on. It will be fairly
long. Please read all of it.]
Mike
You may have noticed Charles Krauthammer on cable news.(FOX & CNN) He is the
one with a sour-puss and seems kind of stiff in his dress and appearance.
He does a national column in many of America's newspapers and he writes for Time
Magazine. I've attached his photo below but I'm not sure how it will forward
from you, on, but you will recognize him if you ever watch any of the cable
news stations.
I could tell he was bright but his stiff appearance suggested perhaps an
'attitude', and I always listened to his words with some prejudice. Because
of his national column from today, I decided to look at him a little harder.
Krauthammer is a Pulitzer prize winning writer but there is more to the
story. He cut his political teeth doing work for the Carter administration and
was a speech writer for Vice President Walter Mondale.
There is still even more to the story of this amazing man and thus the
credibility of his article below.
He practiced medicine for three years after receiving a Harvard M.D. in
1975. The reason he went to Washington was to do psychiatric research for Jimmy
Carter's administration. And, by the way,
This Political Commentator/writer who never smiles and sits so stiffly on TV
is, himself, paralyzed - from an incident while he was at Harvard Medical School.
When he is sitting there stiff it is probably all that the braces which
keep him vertical will allow him to do. The lack of a smile on his face may
be because those facial muscles don't work quite so well. I know he does smile
inside, because I read the article below. To quote him from the article when
talking about making the best of the hand one is dealt, "... and a very good
life it can be."
His column below is pertinent. You need to read it and pass it on.
Senator Mike Fair
Oklahoma State Senate
Edwards will promise anything to get elected
By Charles Krauthammer
Washington Post Writers Group
WASHINGTON - After the second presidential debate, in which John Kerry used
the word "plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a plan for everything
except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is no parodying Kerry's
pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry campaign has a plan --
nay, a promise -- to cure paralysis. What is the plan? Vote for Kerry.
I'm not making this up. I couldn't. This is John Edwards on Monday at a rally
in Newton, Iowa: "If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work
that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve
are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and walk again."
In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome display of
demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately raising for personal
gain false hope in the catastrophically afflicted is despicable.
Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?
First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is one of the
great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the corner. It could
take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards did, that it is imminent
if only you elect the right politicians is scandalous.
Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no idea where it
will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell research is just one
of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that. For 30 years I have
heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis (including my own, suffered
as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue transplants, was thought to
be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.
As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the hype -- and
have tried in my own counseling of the newly spinal-cord injured to place the
possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to concentrate on making a
life (and a very good life it can be) with the hand one is dealt. The greatest
enemy of this advice has been the snake-oil salesmen promising a miracle around
the corner. I never expected a candidate for vice president to be one of them.
Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented from getting out
of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a travesty.
Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem cell research.
There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one just two years
ago. As Dr. Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on Bioethics, has written,
there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells waiting for anybody who wants them.
Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush "ban" on stem cell research. This
is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem cells? You get them from
the companies that have the cells and apply to the National Institutes of Health
for federal funding.
In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, John Kerry referred not once but
four times to the "ban" on stem cell research instituted by Bush. At the time,
Christopher Reeve was alive, so not available for posthumous exploitation.
But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of Alzheimer's.
So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the disgraceful claim
that the stem cell "ban" is standing in the way of an Alzheimer's cure.
This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics, on which I
sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's, Dr. Dennis Selkoe
from Harvard, give us a lecture on the most promising approaches to solving the
Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported remarkable progress in biochemically clearing
the "plaque" deposits in the brain that lead to Alzheimer's. He ended
his presentation without the phrase "stem cells" having crossed his lips.
So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell researcher at
NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an Alzheimer's cure are a fiction,
but that "people need a fairy tale." Kerry and Edwards certainly do. They
are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having no doubt been told by their
pollsters that stem cells play well politically.
Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is part of the game.
It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy price controls there.
But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people with the promise
of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.
There is no apologizing for Edwards' remark. It is too revealing. There is
absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected.
Charles Krauthammer:
letters(at)charleskrauthammer.com
x-unix-mode0666;
name"krauthammer.jpg"
Content-Disposition: inline;
filenamekrauthammer.jpg
--
The box said use Windows XP or better, so I bought a Macintosh.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Viet Newspaper" <info(at)danviet.com.au>
Subject: Thank you for your email
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Thank you,
We have received your email.
It will be attended to as soon as we possibly can.
Have a nice day!
Cam on ban,
Chung toi da nhan duoc email cua ban.
Chung toi se hoi dap trong thoi gian som nhat.
Chuc ban mot ngay vui ve.
Tuan bao Dan Viet.
(This is an auto reply message)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Sorry folks, I accidently included the list's address in this email. It is
not aviation related.
I will be more careful in future.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
>
research in its proper context. I left the comments of previous readers in
place, including that of senator Mike Fair. This is SO important that one
should take the time to read it and understand what's at stake here. If you
could forward this, it will reach a larger audience.
> Nico
>
>
> I just recieved this. I always thought Krauthammer was extremely smart but
didn't know his background. Republican or Democrat,this is a MUST READ !!!!
> Max
> [First let me say that that Mr. Krauthammer's article (below) is
extremely important, both for its content and for what it says about the
morality of the Kerry/Edwards campaign. What I am saying about him, I hope
will create enough interest in his article and encourage you to forward it
on. It will be fairly long. Please read all of it.]
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> You may have noticed Charles Krauthammer on cable news.(FOX & CNN) He
is the one with a sour-puss and seems kind of stiff in his dress and
appearance. He does a national column in many of America's newspapers and
he writes for Time Magazine. I've attached his photo below but I'm not sure
how it will forward from you, on, but you will recognize him if you ever
watch any of the cable news stations.
>
>
> I could tell he was bright but his stiff appearance suggested
perhaps an 'attitude', and I always listened to his words with some
prejudice. Because of his national column from today, I decided to look at
him a little harder.
>
>
> Krauthammer is a Pulitzer prize winning writer but there is more to
the story. He cut his political teeth doing work for the Carter
administration and was a speech writer for Vice President Walter Mondale.
>
>
> There is still even more to the story of this amazing man and thus
the credibility of his article below.
>
>
> He practiced medicine for three years after receiving a Harvard
M.D. in 1975. The reason he went to Washington was to do psychiatric
research for Jimmy Carter's administration. And, by the way,
>
>
> This Political Commentator/writer who never smiles and sits so stiffly
on TV is, himself, paralyzed - from an incident while he was at Harvard
Medical School. When he is sitting there stiff it is probably all that the
braces which keep him vertical will allow him to do. The lack of a smile on
his face may be because those facial muscles don't work quite so well. I
know he does smile inside, because I read the article below. To quote him
from the article when talking about making the best of the hand one is
dealt, "... and a very good life it can be."
>
>
> His column below is pertinent. You need to read it and pass it
on.
>
>
> Senator Mike Fair
>
>
> Oklahoma State Senate
>
>
> Edwards will promise anything to get elected
>
>
> By Charles Krauthammer
> Washington Post Writers Group
>
>
> WASHINGTON - After the second presidential debate, in which John Kerry
used the word "plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a plan
for everything except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is no
parodying Kerry's pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry
campaign has a plan -- nay, a promise -- to cure paralysis. What is the
plan? Vote for Kerry.
>
>
> I'm not making this up. I couldn't. This is John Edwards on Monday at
a rally in Newton, Iowa: "If we do the work that we can do in this country,
the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like
Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and walk
again."
>
>
> In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome
display of demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately
raising for personal gain false hope in the catastrophically afflicted is
despicable.
>
>
> Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?
>
>
> First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is one of
the great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the
corner. It could take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards did,
that it is imminent if only you elect the right politicians is scandalous.
>
>
> Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no idea
where it will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell research
is just one of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that. For
30 years I have heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis (including my
own, suffered as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue transplants,
was thought to be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.
>
>
> As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the
hype -- and have tried in my own counseling of the newly spinal-cord injured
to place the possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to
concentrate on making a life (and a very good life it can be) with the hand
one is dealt. The greatest enemy of this advice has been the snake-oil
salesmen promising a miracle around the corner. I never expected a candidate
for vice president to be one of them.
>
>
> Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented from
getting out of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a travesty.
>
>
> Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem cell
research. There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one just
two years ago. As Dr. Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on
Bioethics, has written, there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells waiting for
anybody who wants them.
>
>
> Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush "ban" on stem cell
research. This is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem cells? You
get them from the companies that have the cells and apply to the National
Institutes of Health for federal funding.
>
>
> In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, John Kerry referred not
once but four times to the "ban" on stem cell research instituted by Bush.
At the time, Christopher Reeve was alive, so not available for posthumous
exploitation. But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of
Alzheimer's.
>
>
> So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the
disgraceful claim that the stem cell "ban" is standing in the way of an
Alzheimer's cure.
>
>
> This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics, on
which I sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's, Dr.
Dennis Selkoe from Harvard, give us a lecture on the most promising
approaches to solving the Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported remarkable
progress in biochemically clearing the "plaque" deposits in the brain that
lead to Alzheimer's. He ended his presentation without the phrase "stem
cells" having crossed his lips.
>
>
> So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell
researcher at NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an Alzheimer's
cure are a fiction, but that "people need a fairy tale." Kerry and Edwards
certainly do. They are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having no
doubt been told by their pollsters that stem cells play well politically.
>
>
> Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is part of
the game. It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy price
controls there. But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people with
the promise of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.
>
>
> There is no apologizing for Edwards' remark. It is too revealing.
There is absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected.
>
>
> Charles Krauthammer:
>
>
> letters(at)charleskrauthammer.com
>
>
> x-unix-mode0666;
> name"krauthammer.jpg"
> Content-Disposition: inline;
> filenamekrauthammer.jpg
>
>
> --
> The box said use Windows XP or better, so I bought a Macintosh.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Sure would be nice to get back to talking about aviation & Aero Commanders,
instead of using this forum as a soapbox to foist your political (and
uninformed) points of view on other listees.
Cheers,
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
>
research in its proper context. I left the comments of previous readers in
place, including that of senator Mike Fair. This is SO important that one
should take the time to read it and understand what's at stake here. If you
could forward this, it will reach a larger audience.
> Nico
>
>
> I just recieved this. I always thought Krauthammer was extremely smart but
didn't know his background. Republican or Democrat,this is a MUST READ !!!!
> Max
> [First let me say that that Mr. Krauthammer's article (below) is
extremely important, both for its content and for what it says about the
morality of the Kerry/Edwards campaign. What I am saying about him, I hope
will create enough interest in his article and encourage you to forward it
on. It will be fairly long. Please read all of it.]
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> You may have noticed Charles Krauthammer on cable news.(FOX & CNN) He
is the one with a sour-puss and seems kind of stiff in his dress and
appearance. He does a national column in many of America's newspapers and
he writes for Time Magazine. I've attached his photo below but I'm not sure
how it will forward from you, on, but you will recognize him if you ever
watch any of the cable news stations.
>
>
> I could tell he was bright but his stiff appearance suggested
perhaps an 'attitude', and I always listened to his words with some
prejudice. Because of his national column from today, I decided to look at
him a little harder.
>
>
> Krauthammer is a Pulitzer prize winning writer but there is more to
the story. He cut his political teeth doing work for the Carter
administration and was a speech writer for Vice President Walter Mondale.
>
>
> There is still even more to the story of this amazing man and thus
the credibility of his article below.
>
>
> He practiced medicine for three years after receiving a Harvard
M.D. in 1975. The reason he went to Washington was to do psychiatric
research for Jimmy Carter's administration. And, by the way,
>
>
> This Political Commentator/writer who never smiles and sits so stiffly
on TV is, himself, paralyzed - from an incident while he was at Harvard
Medical School. When he is sitting there stiff it is probably all that the
braces which keep him vertical will allow him to do. The lack of a smile on
his face may be because those facial muscles don't work quite so well. I
know he does smile inside, because I read the article below. To quote him
from the article when talking about making the best of the hand one is
dealt, "... and a very good life it can be."
>
>
> His column below is pertinent. You need to read it and pass it
on.
>
>
> Senator Mike Fair
>
>
> Oklahoma State Senate
>
>
> Edwards will promise anything to get elected
>
>
> By Charles Krauthammer
> Washington Post Writers Group
>
>
> WASHINGTON - After the second presidential debate, in which John Kerry
used the word "plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a plan
for everything except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is no
parodying Kerry's pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry
campaign has a plan -- nay, a promise -- to cure paralysis. What is the
plan? Vote for Kerry.
>
>
> I'm not making this up. I couldn't. This is John Edwards on Monday at
a rally in Newton, Iowa: "If we do the work that we can do in this country,
the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like
Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and walk
again."
>
>
> In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome
display of demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately
raising for personal gain false hope in the catastrophically afflicted is
despicable.
>
>
> Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?
>
>
> First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is one of
the great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the
corner. It could take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards did,
that it is imminent if only you elect the right politicians is scandalous.
>
>
> Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no idea
where it will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell research
is just one of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that. For
30 years I have heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis (including my
own, suffered as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue transplants,
was thought to be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.
>
>
> As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the
hype -- and have tried in my own counseling of the newly spinal-cord injured
to place the possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to
concentrate on making a life (and a very good life it can be) with the hand
one is dealt. The greatest enemy of this advice has been the snake-oil
salesmen promising a miracle around the corner. I never expected a candidate
for vice president to be one of them.
>
>
> Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented from
getting out of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a travesty.
>
>
> Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem cell
research. There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one just
two years ago. As Dr. Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on
Bioethics, has written, there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells waiting for
anybody who wants them.
>
>
> Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush "ban" on stem cell
research. This is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem cells? You
get them from the companies that have the cells and apply to the National
Institutes of Health for federal funding.
>
>
> In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, John Kerry referred not
once but four times to the "ban" on stem cell research instituted by Bush.
At the time, Christopher Reeve was alive, so not available for posthumous
exploitation. But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of
Alzheimer's.
>
>
> So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the
disgraceful claim that the stem cell "ban" is standing in the way of an
Alzheimer's cure.
>
>
> This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics, on
which I sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's, Dr.
Dennis Selkoe from Harvard, give us a lecture on the most promising
approaches to solving the Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported remarkable
progress in biochemically clearing the "plaque" deposits in the brain that
lead to Alzheimer's. He ended his presentation without the phrase "stem
cells" having crossed his lips.
>
>
> So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell
researcher at NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an Alzheimer's
cure are a fiction, but that "people need a fairy tale." Kerry and Edwards
certainly do. They are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having no
doubt been told by their pollsters that stem cells play well politically.
>
>
> Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is part of
the game. It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy price
controls there. But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people with
the promise of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.
>
>
> There is no apologizing for Edwards' remark. It is too revealing.
There is absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected.
>
>
> Charles Krauthammer:
>
>
> letters(at)charleskrauthammer.com
>
>
> x-unix-mode0666;
> name"krauthammer.jpg"
> Content-Disposition: inline;
> filenamekrauthammer.jpg
>
>
> --
> The box said use Windows XP or better, so I bought a Macintosh.
>
>
> .
>
> __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
Date: Oct 18, 2004
I did apologize. They are not uninformed. Unwelcome at best.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
>
> Sure would be nice to get back to talking about aviation & Aero
Commanders,
> instead of using this forum as a soapbox to foist your political (and
> uninformed) points of view on other listees.
>
> Cheers,
>
> /J
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> To: "'Art & Carla White'"
> Subject: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
>
>
>
> >
> research in its proper context. I left the comments of previous readers in
> place, including that of senator Mike Fair. This is SO important that one
> should take the time to read it and understand what's at stake here. If
you
> could forward this, it will reach a larger audience.
> > Nico
> >
> >
> > I just recieved this. I always thought Krauthammer was extremely smart
but
> didn't know his background. Republican or Democrat,this is a MUST READ
!!!!
> > Max
> > [First let me say that that Mr. Krauthammer's article (below) is
> extremely important, both for its content and for what it says about the
> morality of the Kerry/Edwards campaign. What I am saying about him, I
hope
> will create enough interest in his article and encourage you to forward it
> on. It will be fairly long. Please read all of it.]
> >
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > You may have noticed Charles Krauthammer on cable news.(FOX & CNN)
He
> is the one with a sour-puss and seems kind of stiff in his dress and
> appearance. He does a national column in many of America's newspapers and
> he writes for Time Magazine. I've attached his photo below but I'm not
sure
> how it will forward from you, on, but you will recognize him if you ever
> watch any of the cable news stations.
> >
> >
> > I could tell he was bright but his stiff appearance suggested
> perhaps an 'attitude', and I always listened to his words with some
> prejudice. Because of his national column from today, I decided to look
at
> him a little harder.
> >
> >
> > Krauthammer is a Pulitzer prize winning writer but there is more
to
> the story. He cut his political teeth doing work for the Carter
> administration and was a speech writer for Vice President Walter Mondale.
> >
> >
> > There is still even more to the story of this amazing man and
thus
> the credibility of his article below.
> >
> >
> > He practiced medicine for three years after receiving a Harvard
> M.D. in 1975. The reason he went to Washington was to do psychiatric
> research for Jimmy Carter's administration. And, by the way,
> >
> >
> > This Political Commentator/writer who never smiles and sits so
stiffly
> on TV is, himself, paralyzed - from an incident while he was at Harvard
> Medical School. When he is sitting there stiff it is probably all that
the
> braces which keep him vertical will allow him to do. The lack of a smile
on
> his face may be because those facial muscles don't work quite so well.
I
> know he does smile inside, because I read the article below. To quote him
> from the article when talking about making the best of the hand one is
> dealt, "... and a very good life it can be."
> >
> >
> > His column below is pertinent. You need to read it and pass it
> on.
> >
> >
> > Senator Mike Fair
> >
> >
> > Oklahoma State Senate
> >
> >
> > Edwards will promise anything to get elected
> >
> >
> > By Charles Krauthammer
> > Washington Post Writers Group
> >
> >
> > WASHINGTON - After the second presidential debate, in which John
Kerry
> used the word "plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a plan
> for everything except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is no
> parodying Kerry's pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry
> campaign has a plan -- nay, a promise -- to cure paralysis. What is the
> plan? Vote for Kerry.
> >
> >
> > I'm not making this up. I couldn't. This is John Edwards on Monday
at
> a rally in Newton, Iowa: "If we do the work that we can do in this
country,
> the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like
> Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and
walk
> again."
> >
> >
> > In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome
> display of demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately
> raising for personal gain false hope in the catastrophically afflicted is
> despicable.
> >
> >
> > Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?
> >
> >
> > First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is one
of
> the great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the
> corner. It could take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards did,
> that it is imminent if only you elect the right politicians is scandalous.
> >
> >
> > Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no idea
> where it will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell
research
> is just one of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that. For
> 30 years I have heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis (including
my
> own, suffered as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue
transplants,
> was thought to be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.
> >
> >
> > As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the
> hype -- and have tried in my own counseling of the newly spinal-cord
injured
> to place the possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to
> concentrate on making a life (and a very good life it can be) with the
hand
> one is dealt. The greatest enemy of this advice has been the snake-oil
> salesmen promising a miracle around the corner. I never expected a
candidate
> for vice president to be one of them.
> >
> >
> > Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented from
> getting out of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a
travesty.
> >
> >
> > Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem
cell
> research. There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one just
> two years ago. As Dr. Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on
> Bioethics, has written, there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells waiting
for
> anybody who wants them.
> >
> >
> > Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush "ban" on stem cell
> research. This is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem cells?
You
> get them from the companies that have the cells and apply to the National
> Institutes of Health for federal funding.
> >
> >
> > In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, John Kerry referred not
> once but four times to the "ban" on stem cell research instituted by Bush.
> At the time, Christopher Reeve was alive, so not available for posthumous
> exploitation. But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of
> Alzheimer's.
> >
> >
> > So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the
> disgraceful claim that the stem cell "ban" is standing in the way of an
> Alzheimer's cure.
> >
> >
> > This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics, on
> which I sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's, Dr.
> Dennis Selkoe from Harvard, give us a lecture on the most promising
> approaches to solving the Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported remarkable
> progress in biochemically clearing the "plaque" deposits in the brain that
> lead to Alzheimer's. He ended his presentation without the phrase "stem
> cells" having crossed his lips.
> >
> >
> > So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell
> researcher at NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an Alzheimer's
> cure are a fiction, but that "people need a fairy tale." Kerry and Edwards
> certainly do. They are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having no
> doubt been told by their pollsters that stem cells play well politically.
> >
> >
> > Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is part
of
> the game. It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy price
> controls there. But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people
with
> the promise of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.
> >
> >
> > There is no apologizing for Edwards' remark. It is too revealing.
> There is absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected.
> >
> >
> > Charles Krauthammer:
> >
> >
> > letters(at)charleskrauthammer.com
> >
> >
> > x-unix-mode0666;
> > name"krauthammer.jpg"
> > Content-Disposition: inline;
> > filenamekrauthammer.jpg
> >
> >
> > --
> > The box said use Windows XP or better, so I bought a Macintosh.
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Rodriguez Colom" <jamesrodriguez(at)bppr.com>
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Subject: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
John,
How did the paint job turn out?
Best Regards,
Jimmy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
Sure would be nice to get back to talking about aviation & Aero
Commanders,
instead of using this forum as a soapbox to foist your political (and
uninformed) points of view on other listees.
Cheers,
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
>
cell
research in its proper context. I left the comments of previous readers
in
place, including that of senator Mike Fair. This is SO important that
one
should take the time to read it and understand what's at stake here. If
you
could forward this, it will reach a larger audience.
> Nico
>
>
> I just recieved this. I always thought Krauthammer was extremely smart
but
didn't know his background. Republican or Democrat,this is a MUST READ
!!!!
> Max
> [First let me say that that Mr. Krauthammer's article (below) is
extremely important, both for its content and for what it says about the
morality of the Kerry/Edwards campaign. What I am saying about him, I
hope
will create enough interest in his article and encourage you to forward
it
on. It will be fairly long. Please read all of it.]
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> You may have noticed Charles Krauthammer on cable news.(FOX & CNN)
He
is the one with a sour-puss and seems kind of stiff in his dress and
appearance. He does a national column in many of America's newspapers
and
he writes for Time Magazine. I've attached his photo below but I'm not
sure
how it will forward from you, on, but you will recognize him if you ever
watch any of the cable news stations.
>
>
> I could tell he was bright but his stiff appearance suggested
perhaps an 'attitude', and I always listened to his words with some
prejudice. Because of his national column from today, I decided to look
at
him a little harder.
>
>
> Krauthammer is a Pulitzer prize winning writer but there is
more to
the story. He cut his political teeth doing work for the Carter
administration and was a speech writer for Vice President Walter
Mondale.
>
>
> There is still even more to the story of this amazing man and
thus
the credibility of his article below.
>
>
> He practiced medicine for three years after receiving a Harvard
M.D. in 1975. The reason he went to Washington was to do psychiatric
research for Jimmy Carter's administration. And, by the way,
>
>
> This Political Commentator/writer who never smiles and sits so
stiffly
on TV is, himself, paralyzed - from an incident while he was at Harvard
Medical School. When he is sitting there stiff it is probably all that
the
braces which keep him vertical will allow him to do. The lack of a
smile on
his face may be because those facial muscles don't work quite so well.
I
know he does smile inside, because I read the article below. To quote
him
from the article when talking about making the best of the hand one is
dealt, "... and a very good life it can be."
>
>
> His column below is pertinent. You need to read it and pass
it
on.
>
>
> Senator Mike Fair
>
>
> Oklahoma State Senate
>
>
> Edwards will promise anything to get elected
>
>
> By Charles Krauthammer
> Washington Post Writers Group
>
>
> WASHINGTON - After the second presidential debate, in which John
Kerry
used the word "plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a
plan
for everything except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is no
parodying Kerry's pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry
campaign has a plan -- nay, a promise -- to cure paralysis. What is the
plan? Vote for Kerry.
>
>
> I'm not making this up. I couldn't. This is John Edwards on
Monday at
a rally in Newton, Iowa: "If we do the work that we can do in this
country,
the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like
Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and
walk
again."
>
>
> In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome
display of demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately
raising for personal gain false hope in the catastrophically afflicted
is
despicable.
>
>
> Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?
>
>
> First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is
one of
the great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the
corner. It could take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards did,
that it is imminent if only you elect the right politicians is
scandalous.
>
>
> Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no idea
where it will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell
research
is just one of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that.
For
30 years I have heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis (including
my
own, suffered as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue
transplants,
was thought to be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.
>
>
> As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the
hype -- and have tried in my own counseling of the newly spinal-cord
injured
to place the possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to
concentrate on making a life (and a very good life it can be) with the
hand
one is dealt. The greatest enemy of this advice has been the snake-oil
salesmen promising a miracle around the corner. I never expected a
candidate
for vice president to be one of them.
>
>
> Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented from
getting out of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a
travesty.
>
>
> Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem
cell
research. There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one
just
two years ago. As Dr. Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on
Bioethics, has written, there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells waiting
for
anybody who wants them.
>
>
> Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush "ban" on stem cell
research. This is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem cells?
You
get them from the companies that have the cells and apply to the
National
Institutes of Health for federal funding.
>
>
> In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, John Kerry referred
not
once but four times to the "ban" on stem cell research instituted by
Bush.
At the time, Christopher Reeve was alive, so not available for
posthumous
exploitation. But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of
Alzheimer's.
>
>
> So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the
disgraceful claim that the stem cell "ban" is standing in the way of an
Alzheimer's cure.
>
>
> This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics, on
which I sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's, Dr.
Dennis Selkoe from Harvard, give us a lecture on the most promising
approaches to solving the Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported
remarkable
progress in biochemically clearing the "plaque" deposits in the brain
that
lead to Alzheimer's. He ended his presentation without the phrase "stem
cells" having crossed his lips.
>
>
> So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell
researcher at NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an
Alzheimer's
cure are a fiction, but that "people need a fairy tale." Kerry and
Edwards
certainly do. They are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having no
doubt been told by their pollsters that stem cells play well
politically.
>
>
> Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is part
of
the game. It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy price
controls there. But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people
with
the promise of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.
>
>
> There is no apologizing for Edwards' remark. It is too revealing.
There is absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected.
>
>
> Charles Krauthammer:
>
>
> letters(at)charleskrauthammer.com
>
>
> x-unix-mode0666;
> name"krauthammer.jpg"
> Content-Disposition: inline;
> filenamekrauthammer.jpg
>
>
> --
> The box said use Windows XP or better, so I bought a Macintosh.
>
>
> .
>
> __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
==
==
==
==
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
Date: Oct 18, 2004
Point taken, and I owe an apology too.....I didn't see your followup message
until after I flamed you :-).
So, I apologize!
Cheers,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
>
> I did apologize. They are not uninformed. Unwelcome at best.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
>
>
> >
> > Sure would be nice to get back to talking about aviation & Aero
> Commanders,
> > instead of using this forum as a soapbox to foist your political (and
> > uninformed) points of view on other listees.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > /J
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > To: "'Art & Carla White'"
> > Subject: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
> >
> >
> >
> > >
cell
> > research in its proper context. I left the comments of previous readers
in
> > place, including that of senator Mike Fair. This is SO important that
one
> > should take the time to read it and understand what's at stake here. If
> you
> > could forward this, it will reach a larger audience.
> > > Nico
> > >
> > >
> > > I just recieved this. I always thought Krauthammer was extremely smart
> but
> > didn't know his background. Republican or Democrat,this is a MUST READ
> !!!!
> > > Max
> > > [First let me say that that Mr. Krauthammer's article (below) is
> > extremely important, both for its content and for what it says about the
> > morality of the Kerry/Edwards campaign. What I am saying about him, I
> hope
> > will create enough interest in his article and encourage you to forward
it
> > on. It will be fairly long. Please read all of it.]
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > You may have noticed Charles Krauthammer on cable news.(FOX & CNN)
> He
> > is the one with a sour-puss and seems kind of stiff in his dress and
> > appearance. He does a national column in many of America's newspapers
and
> > he writes for Time Magazine. I've attached his photo below but I'm not
> sure
> > how it will forward from you, on, but you will recognize him if you ever
> > watch any of the cable news stations.
> > >
> > >
> > > I could tell he was bright but his stiff appearance suggested
> > perhaps an 'attitude', and I always listened to his words with some
> > prejudice. Because of his national column from today, I decided to look
> at
> > him a little harder.
> > >
> > >
> > > Krauthammer is a Pulitzer prize winning writer but there is
more
> to
> > the story. He cut his political teeth doing work for the Carter
> > administration and was a speech writer for Vice President Walter
Mondale.
> > >
> > >
> > > There is still even more to the story of this amazing man and
> thus
> > the credibility of his article below.
> > >
> > >
> > > He practiced medicine for three years after receiving a Harvard
> > M.D. in 1975. The reason he went to Washington was to do psychiatric
> > research for Jimmy Carter's administration. And, by the way,
> > >
> > >
> > > This Political Commentator/writer who never smiles and sits so
> stiffly
> > on TV is, himself, paralyzed - from an incident while he was at Harvard
> > Medical School. When he is sitting there stiff it is probably all that
> the
> > braces which keep him vertical will allow him to do. The lack of a
smile
> on
> > his face may be because those facial muscles don't work quite so well.
> I
> > know he does smile inside, because I read the article below. To quote
him
> > from the article when talking about making the best of the hand one is
> > dealt, "... and a very good life it can be."
> > >
> > >
> > > His column below is pertinent. You need to read it and pass
it
> > on.
> > >
> > >
> > > Senator Mike Fair
> > >
> > >
> > > Oklahoma State Senate
> > >
> > >
> > > Edwards will promise anything to get elected
> > >
> > >
> > > By Charles Krauthammer
> > > Washington Post Writers Group
> > >
> > >
> > > WASHINGTON - After the second presidential debate, in which John
> Kerry
> > used the word "plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a
plan
> > for everything except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is no
> > parodying Kerry's pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry
> > campaign has a plan -- nay, a promise -- to cure paralysis. What is the
> > plan? Vote for Kerry.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm not making this up. I couldn't. This is John Edwards on
Monday
> at
> > a rally in Newton, Iowa: "If we do the work that we can do in this
> country,
> > the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like
> > Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and
> walk
> > again."
> > >
> > >
> > > In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome
> > display of demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately
> > raising for personal gain false hope in the catastrophically afflicted
is
> > despicable.
> > >
> > >
> > > Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?
> > >
> > >
> > > First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is
one
> of
> > the great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the
> > corner. It could take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards did,
> > that it is imminent if only you elect the right politicians is
scandalous.
> > >
> > >
> > > Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no idea
> > where it will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell
> research
> > is just one of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that.
For
> > 30 years I have heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis (including
> my
> > own, suffered as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue
> transplants,
> > was thought to be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.
> > >
> > >
> > > As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the
> > hype -- and have tried in my own counseling of the newly spinal-cord
> injured
> > to place the possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to
> > concentrate on making a life (and a very good life it can be) with the
> hand
> > one is dealt. The greatest enemy of this advice has been the snake-oil
> > salesmen promising a miracle around the corner. I never expected a
> candidate
> > for vice president to be one of them.
> > >
> > >
> > > Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented from
> > getting out of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a
> travesty.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem
> cell
> > research. There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one
just
> > two years ago. As Dr. Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on
> > Bioethics, has written, there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells waiting
> for
> > anybody who wants them.
> > >
> > >
> > > Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush "ban" on stem cell
> > research. This is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem cells?
> You
> > get them from the companies that have the cells and apply to the
National
> > Institutes of Health for federal funding.
> > >
> > >
> > > In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, John Kerry referred
not
> > once but four times to the "ban" on stem cell research instituted by
Bush.
> > At the time, Christopher Reeve was alive, so not available for
posthumous
> > exploitation. But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of
> > Alzheimer's.
> > >
> > >
> > > So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the
> > disgraceful claim that the stem cell "ban" is standing in the way of an
> > Alzheimer's cure.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics, on
> > which I sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's, Dr.
> > Dennis Selkoe from Harvard, give us a lecture on the most promising
> > approaches to solving the Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported
remarkable
> > progress in biochemically clearing the "plaque" deposits in the brain
that
> > lead to Alzheimer's. He ended his presentation without the phrase "stem
> > cells" having crossed his lips.
> > >
> > >
> > > So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell
> > researcher at NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an
Alzheimer's
> > cure are a fiction, but that "people need a fairy tale." Kerry and
Edwards
> > certainly do. They are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having no
> > doubt been told by their pollsters that stem cells play well
politically.
> > >
> > >
> > > Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is part
> of
> > the game. It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy price
> > controls there. But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people
> with
> > the promise of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.
> > >
> > >
> > > There is no apologizing for Edwards' remark. It is too revealing.
> > There is absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected.
> > >
> > >
> > > Charles Krauthammer:
> > >
> > >
> > > letters(at)charleskrauthammer.com
> > >
> > >
> > > x-unix-mode0666;
> > > name"krauthammer.jpg"
> > > Content-Disposition: inline;
> > > filenamekrauthammer.jpg
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > The box said use Windows XP or better, so I bought a Macintosh.
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> > > __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
> > >
> > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > > http://www.nod32.com
> > >
> > >
> > > __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
> > >
> > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > > http://www.nod32.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
Date: Oct 18, 2004
These emails go around too fast.
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
>
> Point taken, and I owe an apology too.....I didn't see your followup
message
> until after I flamed you :-).
>
> So, I apologize!
>
> Cheers,
>
> /John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
>
>
>
> >
> > I did apologize. They are not uninformed. Unwelcome at best.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > > Sure would be nice to get back to talking about aviation & Aero
> > Commanders,
> > > instead of using this forum as a soapbox to foist your political (and
> > > uninformed) points of view on other listees.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > /J
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > > To: "'Art & Carla White'"
> > > Subject: Commander-List: Stem cell research: Charles Krauthammer MD
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> cell
> > > research in its proper context. I left the comments of previous
readers
> in
> > > place, including that of senator Mike Fair. This is SO important that
> one
> > > should take the time to read it and understand what's at stake here.
If
> > you
> > > could forward this, it will reach a larger audience.
> > > > Nico
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I just recieved this. I always thought Krauthammer was extremely
smart
> > but
> > > didn't know his background. Republican or Democrat,this is a MUST READ
> > !!!!
> > > > Max
> > > > [First let me say that that Mr. Krauthammer's article (below) is
> > > extremely important, both for its content and for what it says about
the
> > > morality of the Kerry/Edwards campaign. What I am saying about him, I
> > hope
> > > will create enough interest in his article and encourage you to
forward
> it
> > > on. It will be fairly long. Please read all of it.]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You may have noticed Charles Krauthammer on cable news.(FOX &
CNN)
> > He
> > > is the one with a sour-puss and seems kind of stiff in his dress and
> > > appearance. He does a national column in many of America's newspapers
> and
> > > he writes for Time Magazine. I've attached his photo below but I'm
not
> > sure
> > > how it will forward from you, on, but you will recognize him if you
ever
> > > watch any of the cable news stations.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I could tell he was bright but his stiff appearance suggested
> > > perhaps an 'attitude', and I always listened to his words with some
> > > prejudice. Because of his national column from today, I decided to
look
> > at
> > > him a little harder.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Krauthammer is a Pulitzer prize winning writer but there is
> more
> > to
> > > the story. He cut his political teeth doing work for the Carter
> > > administration and was a speech writer for Vice President Walter
> Mondale.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There is still even more to the story of this amazing man
and
> > thus
> > > the credibility of his article below.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He practiced medicine for three years after receiving a
Harvard
> > > M.D. in 1975. The reason he went to Washington was to do psychiatric
> > > research for Jimmy Carter's administration. And, by the way,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This Political Commentator/writer who never smiles and sits so
> > stiffly
> > > on TV is, himself, paralyzed - from an incident while he was at
Harvard
> > > Medical School. When he is sitting there stiff it is probably all
that
> > the
> > > braces which keep him vertical will allow him to do. The lack of a
> smile
> > on
> > > his face may be because those facial muscles don't work quite so well.
> > I
> > > know he does smile inside, because I read the article below. To quote
> him
> > > from the article when talking about making the best of the hand one is
> > > dealt, "... and a very good life it can be."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > His column below is pertinent. You need to read it and pass
> it
> > > on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Senator Mike Fair
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oklahoma State Senate
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Edwards will promise anything to get elected
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > By Charles Krauthammer
> > > > Washington Post Writers Group
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WASHINGTON - After the second presidential debate, in which John
> > Kerry
> > > used the word "plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a
> plan
> > > for everything except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is
no
> > > parodying Kerry's pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry
> > > campaign has a plan -- nay, a promise -- to cure paralysis. What is
the
> > > plan? Vote for Kerry.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not making this up. I couldn't. This is John Edwards on
> Monday
> > at
> > > a rally in Newton, Iowa: "If we do the work that we can do in this
> > country,
> > > the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like
> > > Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair
and
> > walk
> > > again."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more
loathsome
> > > display of demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately
> > > raising for personal gain false hope in the catastrophically afflicted
> is
> > > despicable.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is
> one
> > of
> > > the great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the
> > > corner. It could take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards
did,
> > > that it is imminent if only you elect the right politicians is
> scandalous.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no
idea
> > > where it will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell
> > research
> > > is just one of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that.
> For
> > > 30 years I have heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis
(including
> > my
> > > own, suffered as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue
> > transplants,
> > > was thought to be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the
> > > hype -- and have tried in my own counseling of the newly spinal-cord
> > injured
> > > to place the possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to
> > > concentrate on making a life (and a very good life it can be) with the
> > hand
> > > one is dealt. The greatest enemy of this advice has been the snake-oil
> > > salesmen promising a miracle around the corner. I never expected a
> > candidate
> > > for vice president to be one of them.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented
from
> > > getting out of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a
> > travesty.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem
> > cell
> > > research. There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one
> just
> > > two years ago. As Dr. Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on
> > > Bioethics, has written, there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells
waiting
> > for
> > > anybody who wants them.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush "ban" on stem cell
> > > research. This is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem
cells?
> > You
> > > get them from the companies that have the cells and apply to the
> National
> > > Institutes of Health for federal funding.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, John Kerry referred
> not
> > > once but four times to the "ban" on stem cell research instituted by
> Bush.
> > > At the time, Christopher Reeve was alive, so not available for
> posthumous
> > > exploitation. But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of
> > > Alzheimer's.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the
> > > disgraceful claim that the stem cell "ban" is standing in the way of
an
> > > Alzheimer's cure.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics,
on
> > > which I sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's,
Dr.
> > > Dennis Selkoe from Harvard, give us a lecture on the most promising
> > > approaches to solving the Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported
> remarkable
> > > progress in biochemically clearing the "plaque" deposits in the brain
> that
> > > lead to Alzheimer's. He ended his presentation without the phrase
"stem
> > > cells" having crossed his lips.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell
> > > researcher at NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an
> Alzheimer's
> > > cure are a fiction, but that "people need a fairy tale." Kerry and
> Edwards
> > > certainly do. They are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having
no
> > > doubt been told by their pollsters that stem cells play well
> politically.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is
part
> > of
> > > the game. It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy
price
> > > controls there. But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people
> > with
> > > the promise of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There is no apologizing for Edwards' remark. It is too
revealing.
> > > There is absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Charles Krauthammer:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > letters(at)charleskrauthammer.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > x-unix-mode0666;
> > > > name"krauthammer.jpg"
> > > > Content-Disposition: inline;
> > > > filenamekrauthammer.jpg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > The box said use Windows XP or better, so I bought a Macintosh.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
> > > >
> > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > > > http://www.nod32.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
> > > >
> > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > > > http://www.nod32.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.896 (20041015) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 10/18/04
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Please remove me from the list. Way too much non aviation related chat.
Scott Dickey
N222LE
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: RE: Commander-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 10/18/04
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Good grief man, the people apologized for accidentally sending that last
topic, it's not as if it is a common problem.
Besides most of the time you might get on average two Emails a day! Not
exactly a burden for your inbox.
So don't site that "non aviation related chat" is the reason you want off
the list.
Frankly I think that some people have a lot of pent up anger just waiting
for a situation to release it on, too bad, give peace a try.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Dickey" <jdickey(at)radictech.com>
Subject: Commander-List: RE: Commander-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 10/18/04
>
> Please remove me from the list. Way too much non aviation related chat.
>
> Scott Dickey
> N222LE
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 19, 2004
Subject: Re: RE: Commander-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 10/18/04
In a message dated 10/19/2004 4:42:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
Frankly I think that some people have a lot of pent up anger just waiting
for a situation to release it on, too bad, give peace a try.
Tom F.
Amen!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: PARTS AVAILABLE
Date: Oct 20, 2004
BH, I DO NOT HAVE ANY PICTURES. IT SEEMS TO BE IN GOOD SHAPE. IT IS A 8" FACE
UNIT. WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW. MASON 817-517-4977
----- Original Message -----
From: W J R HAMILTON
Subject: Re: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
Mason,
Could you give me details of all the Collins FD components, including pics,
if possible.
My email is
Cheers,
Bill hamilton.
At 02:44 12/10/2004, you wrote:
>
>IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I HAVE THE FOLLOWING AVAILABLE THAT HAS BEEN
>REMOVED FROM MY 680FP:
>
>
>BOSE I HEADSET X 1
>BOSE II HEADSET X 1
>PARKER HANIFIN BRAKE PADS 066-09100 X 8
>SENNHEISER RS6 WIRELESS HEAD PHONE SYSTEM X 4
>COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR 3298-7M/M522-3908 X 1
>BENDIX HSI TYPE 1903711-1 X 1
>MOTOROLA AUTO PILOT MOD 587D COMPLETE SYSTEM TO INCLUDE SERVOS ETC. X 1
>BENDIX RADAR INDICATOR 4000946-5201 X 1
>HYDROLIC PRESSURE GAGE 0-2000 SKYDROL X 1
>ADF INDICATOR IN 21B RECEIVER R-30A X 1
> DYNAVERTER DV-14A X
>ARC CON VERTER B-13A-1 X 1
>ARC RECEIVER R34A X 1
>VOLT METER SYSTEM X 1
>MELETRON PRESSURE ACTUATOR SWITCH X 1
>KN R 601 VOR/LOC RECEIVER 66-1030-00 X 1
>GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPASS AMPLIFIER 8KE26AD2 X 1
>BENDIX FUEL FLOW TRANSMITTER D193-54-A1 X 2
>PRESTOLIGHT STARTER MHW 4004 X 2
>HARTZELL PROP HUB UNIT X 2
>STUFF
>
>
>PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ANY FOR THE ITEMS. MASON
>CHEVAILLIER 817-877-4977 OR 817-517-4977.
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Services
and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are
not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosure or copying of
this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege
attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of the
mistaken delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: NBAA and a Saturday afternoon
Date: Oct 20, 2004
What do you do in Las Vegas on a Saturday between two conventions?
You wander out to North Las Vegas Airport and look around. The Cirrus
Aircraft display is open and one must go look at all the new toys on
display.
I strike up a conversation with their Instructor and give him my card. It
turns out to be Brock Lorber, Pilot of 400CH, a Mr. RPM 680FLP. I have
exchanged lots of emails with Brock over the years. I meet Wing Commander
Gordon at the NBAA as well and spent some time with him looking at all the
new glass cockpits in Falcon 2000. George Yandt was there as well.
Small World. Brock took me flying in a New Cirrus. VERY NICE! It was my
second time behind a Glass Cockpit display. Everyone should have one.
Hope all is well in Commander Land.
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 21, 2004
Subject: Re: NBAA and a Saturday afternoon
In a message dated 20-Oct-04 20:14:30 Pacific Daylight Time,
tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
> I meet Wing Commander
> Gordon at the NBAA as well and spent some time with him looking at all the
> new glass cockpits in Falcon 2000. George Yandt was there as well.
>
> Small World.
That is so true!
While I was at the NBAA to get a hands-on look at what Dassault Falcon Jet is
up to, I was almost constantly in the presence of Aero Commander friends.
Tylor Hall accompanied me on some of my rounds for two days. George Yundt
(AC-685) was manning the Falcon Jet booth (if we can call it a booth, more like
a pavilion), Dennis Polito (AC-500B) was my wing man for an entire day and
back at the Falcon Jet pavilion, I finally met, live and in person, Chris Wall.
I couldn't have had better company. Thanks, Gentlemen.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 21, 2004
Subject: Re: NBAA and a Saturday afternoon
In a message dated 10/20/2004 9:09:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
While I was at the NBAA to get a hands-on look at what Dassault Falcon Jet
is
up to, I was almost constantly in the presence of Aero Commander friends.
Sounds like a great time!! Wish I could have been there. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: NBAA and a Saturday afternoon
Date: Oct 21, 2004
Thanks Tylor for the report from Vegas...wish I could have made the
convention. Good to hear from you.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
tylor.hall
Subject: Commander-List: NBAA and a Saturday afternoon
What do you do in Las Vegas on a Saturday between two conventions?
You wander out to North Las Vegas Airport and look around. The Cirrus
Aircraft display is open and one must go look at all the new toys on
display.
I strike up a conversation with their Instructor and give him my card. It
turns out to be Brock Lorber, Pilot of 400CH, a Mr. RPM 680FLP. I have
exchanged lots of emails with Brock over the years. I meet Wing Commander
Gordon at the NBAA as well and spent some time with him looking at all the
new glass cockpits in Falcon 2000. George Yandt was there as well.
Small World. Brock took me flying in a New Cirrus. VERY NICE! It was my
second time behind a Glass Cockpit display. Everyone should have one.
Hope all is well in Commander Land.
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 21, 2004
Subject: Re: fly in, web site, and stuff
In a message dated 10/17/2004 6:25:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bowing74(at)earthlink.net writes:
Well JB I guess that puts it in your court.
Yep it is all my fault!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Fw: Fw: horse auction
Date: Oct 22, 2004
Fwd: Fw: horse auctionLittle Randy attended a horse auction with his father.
He watched as his father moved from horse to horse,running his hands up and down
the horse's legs, rump, and chest.
After a few minutes, Randy asked, "Dad, why are you doing that?"
His father replied, "Because when I'm buying horses, I have to make sure
that they are healthy and in good shape before I buy.
Randy, looking worried, said, "Dad, I think the UPS guy wants to buy Mom."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: horse auction
Date: Oct 22, 2004
Dang! I did it again.
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Fw: horse auction
>
> Fwd: Fw: horse auctionLittle Randy attended a horse auction with his
father.
> He watched as his father moved from horse to horse,running his hands up
and down the horse's legs, rump, and chest.
>
> After a few minutes, Randy asked, "Dad, why are you doing that?"
>
> His father replied, "Because when I'm buying horses, I have to make sure
> that they are healthy and in good shape before I buy.
>
> Randy, looking worried, said, "Dad, I think the UPS guy wants to buy
Mom."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: horse auction
Date: Oct 22, 2004
Well I never......Imagine being exposed to a smile at this hour of the
morning....well I quit.... (unless you keep sending humor).
Don't worry about the slip of the humorous Email, I do not think you will
get any objections except for my tongue in cheek comment.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Fw: horse auction
>
> Dang! I did it again.
>
> Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Fw: horse auction
>
>
>
> >
> > Fwd: Fw: horse auctionLittle Randy attended a horse auction with his
> father.
> > He watched as his father moved from horse to horse,running his hands
up
> and down the horse's legs, rump, and chest.
> >
> > After a few minutes, Randy asked, "Dad, why are you doing that?"
> >
> > His father replied, "Because when I'm buying horses, I have to make
sure
> > that they are healthy and in good shape before I buy.
> >
> > Randy, looking worried, said, "Dad, I think the UPS guy wants to buy
> Mom."
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: horse auction
Date: Oct 23, 2004
No, no, no it was the Fed Ex guy.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Fw: horse auction
>
>
> Fwd: Fw: horse auctionLittle Randy attended a horse auction with his
> father.
> He watched as his father moved from horse to horse,running his hands up
> and down the horse's legs, rump, and chest.
>
> After a few minutes, Randy asked, "Dad, why are you doing that?"
>
> His father replied, "Because when I'm buying horses, I have to make sure
> that they are healthy and in good shape before I buy.
>
> Randy, looking worried, said, "Dad, I think the UPS guy wants to buy
> Mom."
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> stuff
Subject: Re: fly in, web site, and
stuff
G'day Jim,
Many thanks for chasing up the McMinville Straight 500 for me.
It is about time I got me a Twin Commander!
I am more than happy to pass on my photos (all in jpeg) format to help in
writing up a Flyin story for the website. What do you think? Unfortunately I
don't have the website construction skills to actually do the technical work.
Have you been in touch with ChrisW re this...
Best wishes from Oz and hi to Sue
Cheers
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Shoulder harnesses, one more time...
Date: Oct 24, 2004
I know there has been discussion of this already, but I have a question:
Has anyone recently added crew shoulder harnesses? I saw the installation
on 152K at Dayton last year and it looks like this is a simple bolt-on to an
existing hard point on a stringer. Can anyone confirm?
Thanks,
ak
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: fly in, web site, and stuff
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Let me know if you need work done on the site. That's what we do.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "stuff" <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: fly in, web site, and stuff
>
> G'day Jim,
>
> Many thanks for chasing up the McMinville Straight 500 for me.
>
> It is about time I got me a Twin Commander!
>
> I am more than happy to pass on my photos (all in jpeg) format to help in
> writing up a Flyin story for the website. What do you think? Unfortunately
I
> don't have the website construction skills to actually do the technical
work.
> Have you been in touch with ChrisW re this...
>
> Best wishes from Oz and hi to Sue
>
> Cheers
>
> Russell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Fwd: Aerospace Logic New Instrument Models
From: "Aerospace Logic Inc." <sales(at)aerospacelogic.com>
Subject: Aerospace Logic New Instrument Models
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:20:13 -0400
------_PartID_114397179733146
------_PartID_114397179733146
![]()
http://www.aerospacelogic.com/images/email/LogoFuel.jpg" border0>
![]()
http://www.aerospacelogic.com/images/email/NPR.jpg" border0>
New Instrument
Models
Aerospace Logic Inc. is pleased to announce the release of three
new variants of the popular FL-100-R Dual Fuel Level indicator. These new
products enhance sender response for lower resistance senders and greatly
simplify the calibration process. Typical install and calibration time is
reduced by at least 50% by using these new products. They are identified as
follows:
FL-100-R(44)
For use with senders that have a maximum resistance of no
more than 44 Ohms
FL-100-R(67)
For use with senders that have a maximum resistance of no
more than 67 Ohms
FL-100-R(109)
For use with senders that have a maximum resistance of no
more than 109 Ohms
The existing FL-100-R instrument supports senders with maximum resistance
of 300 Ohms but has been updated with the new Ver. 2.05 calibration software
that is standard in the new instrument models. When purchasing the
FL-100-R instrument, choosing the appropriate model that yields the best
performance is advised. Keep in mind that the FL-100-R (0-300 Ohm, standard,
generic instrument will work for all sender ranges), the new model ranges will
substantially improve the efficiency of the calibration process. For example: if
the target fuel sender had an operating resistance of 0-35 Ohms all instruments
would be suitable for this installation but the FL-100-R(44) would provide the
best calibration performance. For an aircraft with 35 to 270 Ohm senders the
FL-100-R instrument is the only applicable product and will provide the best
calibration performance. In all cases operational accuracy, performance and
specifications remain unchanged.
New Calibration Algorithms and
Process
The entire calibration process has been redefined for all FL-100
models and now offers the following significant improvements:
Unknown Tank Size Calibration
It is no longer a requirement=20to
know the tank size or the maximum indicating capability of your fuel
sender/tank configuration. Once the tank has been filled or the sender reaches
its maximum reporting point, the calibration process can be concluded and=20the
maximum fuel quantity as well as maximum sender reporting capability is
automatically computed and programmed into the instrument.
One Pass Calibration
Tank calibration can now be concluded with
one single fill/calibrate cycle. The previous requirement to recalibrate the
tank if the full capacity was not reached is now eliminated by the new tank
capacity computation algorithm.
Detailed Sender Error Reporting
In depth diagnostic and
reporting functions have now been integrated into the calibration software
that will allow the pinpointing of sender and calibration problems. Error
resolution details are now included as part of the installation manual.
Critical Point Condition Reporting
FAR's define specific
functional points for fuel level indicating systems. The calibration routines
now include error and diagnostic reporting systems to confirm that the target
fuel senders meet the requirements of the FAR's. Where they do not, problem
sources are identified and resolution options are included in the
installations manual.
Non-Similar Tank Sizes
As a result of all these changes to the
calibration system, the instrument is now able to support different fuel tank
quantities for the two tanks. This is of specific significance as it relates
to sender response where previously the sender ranges had to be identical. The
identical requirement still remains at the zero fuel level (a FAR
requirement). In addition the instrument can now be used for different size
belly and auxiliary tanks.
All instruments with the revised calibration software systems are identified
with a v2.05 message on startup and a Rev 4 or greater on the identification
tag.
CALL AND ORDER NOW=20TO
RECEIVEA SPECIAL DISCOUNT ON ALL INSTRUMENTS!!!
905-569-3887
------_PartID_114397179733146--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Aerospace Logic New Instrument Models
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Did I miss something????
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: Aerospace Logic New Instrument Models
>
>
> From: "Aerospace Logic Inc." <sales(at)aerospacelogic.com>
> To: "Yourtcfg"
> Subject: Aerospace Logic New Instrument Models
> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:20:13 -0400
>
>
> ------_PartID_114397179733146
>
>
> ------_PartID_114397179733146
>
>
> ![]()
http://www.aerospacelogic.com/images/email/LogoFuel.jpg"
> border0>
> ![]()
http://www.aerospacelogic.com/images/email/NPR.jpg" border0>
>
> New Instrument
> Models
> Aerospace Logic Inc. is pleased to announce the release of three
> new variants of the popular FL-100-R Dual Fuel Level indicator. These new
> products enhance sender response for lower resistance senders and greatly
> simplify the calibration process. Typical install and calibration time is
> reduced by at least 50% by using these new products. They are identified
> as
> follows:
>
> FL-100-R(44)
> For use with senders that have a maximum resistance of no
> more than 44 Ohms
> FL-100-R(67)
> For use with senders that have a maximum resistance of no
> more than 67 Ohms
> FL-100-R(109)
> For use with senders that have a maximum resistance of no
> more than 109 Ohms
> The existing FL-100-R instrument supports senders with maximum resistance
> of 300 Ohms but has been updated with the new Ver. 2.05 calibration
> software
> that is standard in the new instrument models. When purchasing the
> FL-100-R instrument, choosing the appropriate model that yields the best
> performance is advised. Keep in mind that the FL-100-R (0-300 Ohm,
> standard,
> generic instrument will work for all sender ranges), the new model ranges
> will
> substantially improve the efficiency of the calibration process. For
> example: if
> the target fuel sender had an operating resistance of 0-35 Ohms all
> instruments
> would be suitable for this installation but the FL-100-R(44) would provide
> the
> best calibration performance. For an aircraft with 35 to 270 Ohm senders
> the
> FL-100-R instrument is the only applicable product and will provide the
> best
> calibration performance. In all cases operational accuracy, performance
> and
> specifications remain unchanged.
>
> New Calibration Algorithms and
> Process
> The entire calibration process has been redefined for all FL-100
> models and now offers the following significant improvements:
>
> Unknown Tank Size Calibration
> It is no longer a requirement=20to
> know the tank size or the maximum indicating capability of your fuel
> sender/tank configuration. Once the tank has been filled or the sender
> reaches
> its maximum reporting point, the calibration process can be concluded
> and=20the
> maximum fuel quantity as well as maximum sender reporting capability is
> automatically computed and programmed into the instrument.
> One Pass Calibration
> Tank calibration can now be concluded with
> one single fill/calibrate cycle. The previous requirement to recalibrate
> the
> tank if the full capacity was not reached is now eliminated by the new
> tank
> capacity computation algorithm.
> Detailed Sender Error Reporting
> In depth diagnostic and
> reporting functions have now been integrated into the calibration
> software
> that will allow the pinpointing of sender and calibration problems. Error
> resolution details are now included as part of the installation manual.
> Critical Point Condition Reporting
> FAR's define specific
> functional points for fuel level indicating systems. The calibration
> routines
> now include error and diagnostic reporting systems to confirm that the
> target
> fuel senders meet the requirements of the FAR's. Where they do not,
> problem
> sources are identified and resolution options are included in the
> installations manual.
> Non-Similar Tank Sizes
> As a result of all these changes to the
> calibration system, the instrument is now able to support different fuel
> tank
> quantities for the two tanks. This is of specific significance as it
> relates
> to sender response where previously the sender ranges had to be
> identical. The
> identical requirement still remains at the zero fuel level (a FAR
> requirement). In addition the instrument can now be used for different
> size
> belly and auxiliary tanks.
>
>
> All instruments with the revised calibration software systems are
> identified
> with a v2.05 message on startup and a Rev 4 or greater on the
> identification
> tag.
>
>
> CALL AND ORDER NOW=20TO
> RECEIVEA SPECIAL DISCOUNT ON ALL INSTRUMENTS!!!
>
>
> 905-569-3887
>
>
> ------_PartID_114397179733146--
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
"commander-list" ,
"DAN BRUHL" , "JOE PACE" ,
"john MCNULTY" , "MOE MILLS" ,
"W. Kent Riley"
Subject: Fw: Fwd: You May Be A Redneck Pilot If...]
Date: Oct 27, 2004
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Mastin
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: You May Be A Redneck Pilot If...]
Thought you might like this if you haven't seen it.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fwd: You May Be A Redneck Pilot If...]
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Nothing was attached...
I am in suspense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
; "DAN BRUHL" ; "JOE
PACE" ; "john MCNULTY" ; "MOE
MILLS" ; "W. Kent Riley"
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Fwd: You May Be A Redneck Pilot If...]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Thomas Mastin
> To: Mason Chevaillier
> Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: You May Be A Redneck Pilot If...]
>
> Thought you might like this if you haven't seen it.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Hello,
I am in need of an ammeter for a 680 FLP Commander. Gen Electric Part # 8DW53-BAC230.
It needs to have 4 studs on the back for the electrical connections.
My usual maintenance folks are unable to find one. It has two scales, 0-120
Amps, and 0-30 Volts with a push post to switch from reading amps to volts.
If anyone knows where to locate one quickly let me know. Thanks.
Ray Mansfield
hcourier(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Subject: Re: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
In a message dated 29-Oct-04 15:54:42 Pacific Daylight Time, hcourier(at)cox.net
writes:
> If anyone knows where to locate one quickly let me know. Thanks.
>
If anyone knows where to locate one quickly it would be Morris Kernick of
Commander Services.
His office phone is: 209 982-9203
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Thank you. I'll check with him.
RM
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
>
> In a message dated 29-Oct-04 15:54:42 Pacific Daylight Time,
> hcourier(at)cox.net
> writes:
>
>> If anyone knows where to locate one quickly let me know. Thanks.
>>
>
> If anyone knows where to locate one quickly it would be Morris Kernick of
> Commander Services.
>
> His office phone is: 209 982-9203
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Ray, you can also try Morris on his cell at 321-403-8813.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
>
> Thank you. I'll check with him.
>
> RM
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 29-Oct-04 15:54:42 Pacific Daylight Time,
> > hcourier(at)cox.net
> > writes:
> >
> >> If anyone knows where to locate one quickly let me know. Thanks.
> >>
> >
> > If anyone knows where to locate one quickly it would be Morris Kernick
of
> > Commander Services.
> >
> > His office phone is: 209 982-9203
> >
> > Wing Commander Gordon
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.912 (20041029) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.912 (20041029) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Flight of deceit?
Date: Oct 31, 2004
http://www.buttondepress.com/BostonManifesto/stolenhonor.wmv
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: PARTS AVAILABLE
Date: Nov 01, 2004
additional to original list.
MAGELLAN SKYNAV 5000 GPS W/ANTENNA X 1
HAMILTON MAGNETIC COMNPASS VC-100-1 X 1
PANEL INSTRUMENT LIGHT RINGS X 29
BENDIX ATTITUDE GYRO 2179A X 1
ALCOR AVIATION INC EGT 204-18A X 1
BENDIX KA120 DME/GS 066-1089-00 X 1
ASTRO TECH LC2 QUARTZ CHRONOMETER AT420100 X 1
ALLIED INSTRUMENTS LABS T-G-C X 1 (FREEAIR/INDUCTIONAIR L&R)
ENGINE UNIT GAGE (TEMP/OIL FUEL PRESS
) AN5773-2 X 2
GENERAL ELECTRIC DIRECTIONAL GYRO INDUCTOR AD2 X 1
AEROSONIC CORP ALTIMETER/PRESSURE ALTITUDE (-1000-20,000') 101420 01205 X1
KING RADIO MAGNETIC INDICATOR (RMI) KI226 X 1
AIRCRAFT RADIO CORP RECEIVER R-33A W/ANTENNA 41000 AND RACK E14A-1 X 1
KING RADIO TELEPHONE KRT 960A W/ANTENNA KA46 & M-10 MOUNT 064-1007-02 X1
NARCO ELEC MOUNTING BRACKET ELT10 X 1
WILCOX ELEC 88216 COMPASS AMPLIFIER MOUNT X 1
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
Subject: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I HAVE THE FOLLOWING AVAILABLE THAT HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM
MY 680FP:
BOSE I HEADSET X 1
BOSE II HEADSET X 1
PARKER HANIFIN BRAKE PADS 066-09100 X 8
SENNHEISER RS6 WIRELESS HEAD PHONE SYSTEM X 4
COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR 3298-7M/M522-3908 X 1
BENDIX HSI TYPE 1903711-1 X 1
MOTOROLA AUTO PILOT MOD 587D COMPLETE SYSTEM TO INCLUDE SERVOS ETC. X 1
BENDIX RADAR INDICATOR 4000946-5201 X 1
HYDROLIC PRESSURE GAGE 0-2000 SKYDROL X 1
ADF INDICATOR IN 21B RECEIVER R-30A X 1
DYNAVERTER DV-14A X 1
ADF ANTENNA
ARC CON VERTER B-13A-1 X 1
ARC RECEIVER R34A X 1
VOLT METER SYSTEM X 1
MELETRON PRESSURE ACTUATOR SWITCH X 1
KN R 601 VOR/LOC RECEIVER 66-1030-00 X 1
GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPASS AMPLIFIER 8KE26AD2 X 1
BENDIX FUEL FLOW TRANSMITTER D193-54-A1 X 2
PRESTOLIGHT STARTER MHW 4004 X 2
HARTZELL PROP HUB UNIT X 2
STUFF
PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ANY FOR THE ITEMS. MASON CHEVAILLIER
817-877-4977 OR 817-517-4977.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 01, 2004
Subject: AMCAR
I'm looking for a copy of the AMCAR volume 33. Would anyone happen to have
a copy that I could get a photocopy of or maybe purchase?
Thanks,
Bert Berry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
Date: Nov 01, 2004
Ray,
It's a pretty good bet that "Commander Dock" Jack Chappell will have one.
Phone 909.371.7513. I have purchased several items from him and have always
been happy with the parts.
Regards,
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
>
> Ray, you can also try Morris on his cell at 321-403-8813.
>
> /John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
>
>
> >
> > Thank you. I'll check with him.
> >
> > RM
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aer Commander 680FL(P) Ammeter
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 29-Oct-04 15:54:42 Pacific Daylight Time,
> > > hcourier(at)cox.net
> > > writes:
> > >
> > >> If anyone knows where to locate one quickly let me know. Thanks.
> > >>
> > >
> > > If anyone knows where to locate one quickly it would be Morris Kernick
> of
> > > Commander Services.
> > >
> > > His office phone is: 209 982-9203
> > >
> > > Wing Commander Gordon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.912 (20041029) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.912 (20041029) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: Flight of deceit?
Date: Nov 01, 2004
Thanks Nico I had been trying to find where I could see it but had not been
able to find it.
Jim Addington
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
Subject: Commander-List: Flight of deceit?
http://www.buttondepress.com/BostonManifesto/stolenhonor.wmv
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2004
From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Fuel Flow
Anyone happen to know if an Electronics International "Flowscan"
transducer will work with a Shadin head? The EI transducers are about
half the price of Shadin's...
thanks,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <service@commander-aero.com>
Subject: Fuel Flow
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Chris,
The EII transducers work with the Shadin ADC200. I don't see why not.
Gary
Commander Aero
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Fuel Flow
Anyone happen to know if an Electronics International "Flowscan"
transducer will work with a Shadin head? The EI transducers are about
half the price of Shadin's...
thanks,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: RE: Flowscan Transducers
Date: Nov 08, 2004
>Anyone happen to know if an Electronics International "Flowscan"
transducer will work with a Shadin head? The EI transducers are about
half the price of Shadin's...
thanks,
Chris>
I have Flowscan transducers that were bought from JPI when I installed my
new EDM800 engine scanners. These same transducers are connected to my
Shadin Digidata fuel flow air data computer doing double duty. I'm pretty
sure that Flowscan makes the transducers for all. I know that the
transducers in my Cardinal RG were Flowscans hooked up to an E.I. UBG16.
Larry Wokral
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Flowscan Transducers
Larry Wokral wrote:
> I'm pretty
> sure that Flowscan makes the transducers for all.
That's pretty much the conclusion that I've come to as well.
Thanks
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Subject: Jet Commander
Does anyone here keep up with Jet Commanders? I'm trying to find out what
the serial number was to N612J. Just a shot in the dark.
Thanks
Bert Berry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Jet Commander
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Hi Bert,
I have an old (May 1979) copy of Air-Britain's Jet Commander/Westwind Monograph.
This shows N612J was serial number 3 and first flew as N612J on April 14th 1963.
Was later was N612JC, N316, N316E and N400WT. It's probably moved on by now!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Jet Commander
|
| Does anyone here keep up with Jet Commanders? I'm trying to find out what
| the serial number was to N612J. Just a shot in the dark.
|
| Thanks
|
| Bert Berry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Jet Commander
Thanks Barry,
I thought you were still over here.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Jet Commander
Date: Nov 09, 2004
It was in England:
http://www.airnorth.demon.co.uk/section3cblast65.htm
There is a Cessna 210 also with the same tail number, which crashed Nov 83
killing 4. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/AccList.asp?month=11&year=1982
Hope this helps.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Jet Commander
>
> Does anyone here keep up with Jet Commanders? I'm trying to find out
what
> the serial number was to N612J. Just a shot in the dark.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bert Berry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Jet Commander
Thanks Much, Sir Barry fixed me up. I forgot I had a copy of Air-Britain
Publication. It was sitting on my desk all this time.
Thanks,
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Jet Commander
Date: Nov 09, 2004
N612J is a reserved # pending change of N494PC which is a Pilatus. FAA
registry has last known N612J as a Cessna P210 that was destroyed in
1991. There is a web site to access any N# and the aircraft it is
associated with:
http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nnum_inquiry.asp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Jet Commander
Does anyone here keep up with Jet Commanders? I'm trying to find out
what
the serial number was to N612J. Just a shot in the dark.
Thanks
Bert Berry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George J. Yundt III" <yundt(at)speakeasy.net>
Subject: Internet "Back Door" to FAA Aircraft Registry
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Yesterday there were a number of messages regarding a particular Jet
Commander and a specific N Number. It seemed that there were ample replies
to the specific request, a few of which were out of date.
For your benefit and consideration, I suggest that the BEST (and it's Free)
place for information is the FAA's Aircraft Registry Database itself. It is
updated every night, and you can search by N Number, Manufacturer, Model
Type, Serial Number, Owner Name, Owner Address, Engine type, even County.
Also, this site allows you to scan for available N Numbers if you are trying
to find and reserve a special number for yourself. It's driven by Java
Scripting, so it is very easy to do queries.
Check Out: http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm
Cheers All,
George J. Yundt III
Twin Commander 685, N74CP
Phone 708.349.2121
yundt(at)speakeasy.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: GEAT VACATION!
HI KIDS....
I just thought I would share Sue and my great time in the Caribbean.
We spent a week on the "Adventurer of the Seas" visiting ports of call in
the southern Carib. But, before we left, we and two other aviation couples
(Dennis and Kerry Garman, retired Eastern airlines and Gary and Alyce Rankin,
press of the Navion Society) arrived a day early to tour San Juan.
Our host, Jimmy Rodregiuez, was king enough to loan us his gorgeous,
beautiful AIR CONDITIONED 500B, S/N 1. for the day!!! It was a hoot!! We left
from the Isle Grande airport in old San Juan. Jimmy was there to meet us and
take the airplane out of the hangar and wave good bye. After a preflight,
we loaded up. The moment both engines were started, I turned on the AC.
Yippee, what a great machine.
Departed to the East and made a sweeping turn to the left, right across
the top of the ship we would be boarding the next day, it was sooooooooo
cool. I followed the coastline and we were all amazed by the color of the water.
We flew around the large radio dish (used in a James Bond movie) and took
some great pix. Next, we went back to the shoreline and passed by my favorite
town, Isabelle. It is near the old B-52 base with it's 12,000' runway. We
then turned inland a bit to miss the 15,000, cable attached to the radar
balloon.
Back along the coast we made our way to the town of Pounce. Jimmy, Sue
and I spent the night there when we were in town in July. It was great to
see it from the air. I then turn back toward the beautiful lush green hills on
the center of the island. We skimmed the peaks and had a great view.
Then back to the coast. We were about 3 miles off shore when we spotted
a pod of whales!! They were spouting and easy to see. I made a circle
around them so everybody got a great look. Not to close as I didn't wan to
disturb them. A few minutes later, Dennis spotted a huge sea turtle. The rest
of
us never saw it but they can reach 1000 lbs.
From there we headed straight for the Island of Vicehies. This is the
Island that the US Navy used for live ammo training. There was a huge uproar
a few years ago and the navy sadly left. On the east end of the Island there
is still much evidence of the past activity with burned out tanks, Howitzer
artillery pieces and lots of craters. The restricted area that use to
protect area is now gone so you can fly right over it. Too Cool!!
We then turned and flew direct to the Island of Culebra. It is a great
Island. we parked and walked to the side of the road where a bus just
happened to be passing by. He picked us up and gave us a great tour of the island.
We found a wonderful restaurant on the water (I dangled my feed in the
Caribbean sea while I waited for my "Cheeseburger in paradise") What fun.
We then went back to the plane and departed for an aerial tour of St.
Thomas and St. John. We didn't stop because the cruse ship would be taking us
there in a few days but it was fun to see the islands from the air ahead of
time.
All to quickly, the day was done and we return to San Juan. We landed
next to the ship and one of Jimmy's helpers put the airplane away for us.
It was am amazing opportunity and it is impossible to put into words the
gratitude we all feel for Jimmy for his amazing gift of the loan of his
wonderful airplane. I will forever be in his debt!!
At the end of the cruse we docked in St. Thomas. We were met at the
dock by TCFG member Malcolm Ford who is just now purchasing a 560F. We had
rented a mini van large enough for all 7 of us and Malcolm spent the entire day
with us. We got a wonderful "local" tour of the island that you just cant get
any other way. We stopped for lunch at "tickle's" restaurant and say a
couple of resident iguanas. A great treat for me! Malcolm stopped at a super
cool little hole in the wall ice cream shop that served the very best milkshake
I have EVER had!! They also serve milkshakes with a little rim added. The
"Rum Runner" is known far and wide on the island. Malcolm went way out of his
way for us and we all had a super wonderful day!! Thanks Malcolm for
EVERYTHING!
While on this trip I saw several other Commanders including TCFG member
"Ticky" Hernadez 680, Capt Buck's 720 and 2, 500Bs. I also saw TCFG member
Sergio Molina flying his straight 500, twice! It was a great, once in a
lifetime opportunity to have some "Commander fun" jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: GEAT VACATION!
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Jimbob,
GREAT story! Thanks for sharing!
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: GEAT VACATION!
>
> HI KIDS....
>
> I just thought I would share Sue and my great time in the
Caribbean.
> We spent a week on the "Adventurer of the Seas" visiting ports of call
in
> the southern Carib. But, before we left, we and two other aviation
couples
> (Dennis and Kerry Garman, retired Eastern airlines and Gary and Alyce
Rankin,
> press of the Navion Society) arrived a day early to tour San Juan.
> Our host, Jimmy Rodregiuez, was king enough to loan us his gorgeous,
> beautiful AIR CONDITIONED 500B, S/N 1. for the day!!! It was a hoot!!
We left
> from the Isle Grande airport in old San Juan. Jimmy was there to meet us
and
> take the airplane out of the hangar and wave good bye. After a
preflight,
> we loaded up. The moment both engines were started, I turned on the AC.
> Yippee, what a great machine.
> Departed to the East and made a sweeping turn to the left, right
across
> the top of the ship we would be boarding the next day, it was sooooooooo
> cool. I followed the coastline and we were all amazed by the color of
the water.
> We flew around the large radio dish (used in a James Bond movie) and
took
> some great pix. Next, we went back to the shoreline and passed by my
favorite
> town, Isabelle. It is near the old B-52 base with it's 12,000' runway.
We
> then turned inland a bit to miss the 15,000, cable attached to the radar
> balloon.
> Back along the coast we made our way to the town of Pounce. Jimmy,
Sue
> and I spent the night there when we were in town in July. It was great
to
> see it from the air. I then turn back toward the beautiful lush green
hills on
> the center of the island. We skimmed the peaks and had a great view.
> Then back to the coast. We were about 3 miles off shore when we
spotted
> a pod of whales!! They were spouting and easy to see. I made a circle
> around them so everybody got a great look. Not to close as I didn't wan
to
> disturb them. A few minutes later, Dennis spotted a huge sea turtle.
The rest of
> us never saw it but they can reach 1000 lbs.
> From there we headed straight for the Island of Vicehies. This is
the
> Island that the US Navy used for live ammo training. There was a huge
uproar
> a few years ago and the navy sadly left. On the east end of the Island
there
> is still much evidence of the past activity with burned out tanks,
Howitzer
> artillery pieces and lots of craters. The restricted area that use to
> protect area is now gone so you can fly right over it. Too Cool!!
> We then turned and flew direct to the Island of Culebra. It is a
great
> Island. we parked and walked to the side of the road where a bus just
> happened to be passing by. He picked us up and gave us a great tour of
the island.
> We found a wonderful restaurant on the water (I dangled my feed in the
> Caribbean sea while I waited for my "Cheeseburger in paradise") What fun.
> We then went back to the plane and departed for an aerial tour of St.
> Thomas and St. John. We didn't stop because the cruse ship would be
taking us
> there in a few days but it was fun to see the islands from the air ahead
of
> time.
> All to quickly, the day was done and we return to San Juan. We
landed
> next to the ship and one of Jimmy's helpers put the airplane away for us.
> It was am amazing opportunity and it is impossible to put into words
the
> gratitude we all feel for Jimmy for his amazing gift of the loan of his
> wonderful airplane. I will forever be in his debt!!
> At the end of the cruse we docked in St. Thomas. We were met at the
> dock by TCFG member Malcolm Ford who is just now purchasing a 560F. We
had
> rented a mini van large enough for all 7 of us and Malcolm spent the
entire day
> with us. We got a wonderful "local" tour of the island that you just
cant get
> any other way. We stopped for lunch at "tickle's" restaurant and say a
> couple of resident iguanas. A great treat for me! Malcolm stopped at a
super
> cool little hole in the wall ice cream shop that served the very best
milkshake
> I have EVER had!! They also serve milkshakes with a little rim added.
The
> "Rum Runner" is known far and wide on the island. Malcolm went way out
of his
> way for us and we all had a super wonderful day!! Thanks Malcolm for
> EVERYTHING!
> While on this trip I saw several other Commanders including TCFG
member
> "Ticky" Hernadez 680, Capt Buck's 720 and 2, 500Bs. I also saw TCFG
member
> Sergio Molina flying his straight 500, twice! It was a great, once in a
> lifetime opportunity to have some "Commander fun" jb
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.920 (20041110) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.920 (20041110) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: GEAT VACATION!
Date: Nov 10, 2004
That's to drool over. Thanks for sharing.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: GEAT VACATION!
>
> HI KIDS....
>
> I just thought I would share Sue and my great time in the
Caribbean.
> We spent a week on the "Adventurer of the Seas" visiting ports of call
in
> the southern Carib. But, before we left, we and two other aviation
couples
> (Dennis and Kerry Garman, retired Eastern airlines and Gary and Alyce
Rankin,
> press of the Navion Society) arrived a day early to tour San Juan.
> Our host, Jimmy Rodregiuez, was king enough to loan us his gorgeous,
> beautiful AIR CONDITIONED 500B, S/N 1. for the day!!! It was a hoot!!
We left
> from the Isle Grande airport in old San Juan. Jimmy was there to meet us
and
> take the airplane out of the hangar and wave good bye. After a
preflight,
> we loaded up. The moment both engines were started, I turned on the AC.
> Yippee, what a great machine.
> Departed to the East and made a sweeping turn to the left, right
across
> the top of the ship we would be boarding the next day, it was sooooooooo
> cool. I followed the coastline and we were all amazed by the color of
the water.
> We flew around the large radio dish (used in a James Bond movie) and
took
> some great pix. Next, we went back to the shoreline and passed by my
favorite
> town, Isabelle. It is near the old B-52 base with it's 12,000' runway.
We
> then turned inland a bit to miss the 15,000, cable attached to the radar
> balloon.
> Back along the coast we made our way to the town of Pounce. Jimmy,
Sue
> and I spent the night there when we were in town in July. It was great
to
> see it from the air. I then turn back toward the beautiful lush green
hills on
> the center of the island. We skimmed the peaks and had a great view.
> Then back to the coast. We were about 3 miles off shore when we
spotted
> a pod of whales!! They were spouting and easy to see. I made a circle
> around them so everybody got a great look. Not to close as I didn't wan
to
> disturb them. A few minutes later, Dennis spotted a huge sea turtle.
The rest of
> us never saw it but they can reach 1000 lbs.
> From there we headed straight for the Island of Vicehies. This is
the
> Island that the US Navy used for live ammo training. There was a huge
uproar
> a few years ago and the navy sadly left. On the east end of the Island
there
> is still much evidence of the past activity with burned out tanks,
Howitzer
> artillery pieces and lots of craters. The restricted area that use to
> protect area is now gone so you can fly right over it. Too Cool!!
> We then turned and flew direct to the Island of Culebra. It is a
great
> Island. we parked and walked to the side of the road where a bus just
> happened to be passing by. He picked us up and gave us a great tour of
the island.
> We found a wonderful restaurant on the water (I dangled my feed in the
> Caribbean sea while I waited for my "Cheeseburger in paradise") What fun.
> We then went back to the plane and departed for an aerial tour of St.
> Thomas and St. John. We didn't stop because the cruse ship would be
taking us
> there in a few days but it was fun to see the islands from the air ahead
of
> time.
> All to quickly, the day was done and we return to San Juan. We
landed
> next to the ship and one of Jimmy's helpers put the airplane away for us.
> It was am amazing opportunity and it is impossible to put into words
the
> gratitude we all feel for Jimmy for his amazing gift of the loan of his
> wonderful airplane. I will forever be in his debt!!
> At the end of the cruse we docked in St. Thomas. We were met at the
> dock by TCFG member Malcolm Ford who is just now purchasing a 560F. We
had
> rented a mini van large enough for all 7 of us and Malcolm spent the
entire day
> with us. We got a wonderful "local" tour of the island that you just
cant get
> any other way. We stopped for lunch at "tickle's" restaurant and say a
> couple of resident iguanas. A great treat for me! Malcolm stopped at a
super
> cool little hole in the wall ice cream shop that served the very best
milkshake
> I have EVER had!! They also serve milkshakes with a little rim added.
The
> "Rum Runner" is known far and wide on the island. Malcolm went way out
of his
> way for us and we all had a super wonderful day!! Thanks Malcolm for
> EVERYTHING!
> While on this trip I saw several other Commanders including TCFG
member
> "Ticky" Hernadez 680, Capt Buck's 720 and 2, 500Bs. I also saw TCFG
member
> Sergio Molina flying his straight 500, twice! It was a great, once in a
> lifetime opportunity to have some "Commander fun" jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: GEAT VACATION!
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Hey JimBob,
Thanks so much for the vacation recap...great story and Commander Adventure.
Really tremendous that Jimmy R loaned you his wonderful 500B. Thanks for
sharing it with us.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: GEAT VACATION!
HI KIDS....
I just thought I would share Sue and my great time in the
Caribbean.
We spent a week on the "Adventurer of the Seas" visiting ports of call in
the southern Carib. But, before we left, we and two other aviation couples
(Dennis and Kerry Garman, retired Eastern airlines and Gary and Alyce
Rankin,
press of the Navion Society) arrived a day early to tour San Juan.
Our host, Jimmy Rodregiuez, was king enough to loan us his gorgeous,
beautiful AIR CONDITIONED 500B, S/N 1. for the day!!! It was a hoot!! We
left
from the Isle Grande airport in old San Juan. Jimmy was there to meet us
and
take the airplane out of the hangar and wave good bye. After a preflight,
we loaded up. The moment both engines were started, I turned on the AC.
Yippee, what a great machine.
Departed to the East and made a sweeping turn to the left, right across
the top of the ship we would be boarding the next day, it was sooooooooo
cool. I followed the coastline and we were all amazed by the color of the
water.
We flew around the large radio dish (used in a James Bond movie) and took
some great pix. Next, we went back to the shoreline and passed by my
favorite
town, Isabelle. It is near the old B-52 base with it's 12,000' runway. We
then turned inland a bit to miss the 15,000, cable attached to the radar
balloon.
Back along the coast we made our way to the town of Pounce. Jimmy, Sue
and I spent the night there when we were in town in July. It was great to
see it from the air. I then turn back toward the beautiful lush green
hills on
the center of the island. We skimmed the peaks and had a great view.
Then back to the coast. We were about 3 miles off shore when we
spotted
a pod of whales!! They were spouting and easy to see. I made a circle
around them so everybody got a great look. Not to close as I didn't wan to
disturb them. A few minutes later, Dennis spotted a huge sea turtle. The
rest of
us never saw it but they can reach 1000 lbs.
From there we headed straight for the Island of Vicehies. This is the
Island that the US Navy used for live ammo training. There was a huge
uproar
a few years ago and the navy sadly left. On the east end of the Island
there
is still much evidence of the past activity with burned out tanks, Howitzer
artillery pieces and lots of craters. The restricted area that use to
protect area is now gone so you can fly right over it. Too Cool!!
We then turned and flew direct to the Island of Culebra. It is a great
Island. we parked and walked to the side of the road where a bus just
happened to be passing by. He picked us up and gave us a great tour of the
island.
We found a wonderful restaurant on the water (I dangled my feed in the
Caribbean sea while I waited for my "Cheeseburger in paradise") What fun.
We then went back to the plane and departed for an aerial tour of St.
Thomas and St. John. We didn't stop because the cruse ship would be taking
us
there in a few days but it was fun to see the islands from the air ahead of
time.
All to quickly, the day was done and we return to San Juan. We landed
next to the ship and one of Jimmy's helpers put the airplane away for us.
It was am amazing opportunity and it is impossible to put into words
the
gratitude we all feel for Jimmy for his amazing gift of the loan of his
wonderful airplane. I will forever be in his debt!!
At the end of the cruse we docked in St. Thomas. We were met at the
dock by TCFG member Malcolm Ford who is just now purchasing a 560F. We had
rented a mini van large enough for all 7 of us and Malcolm spent the entire
day
with us. We got a wonderful "local" tour of the island that you just cant
get
any other way. We stopped for lunch at "tickle's" restaurant and say a
couple of resident iguanas. A great treat for me! Malcolm stopped at a
super
cool little hole in the wall ice cream shop that served the very best
milkshake
I have EVER had!! They also serve milkshakes with a little rim added. The
"Rum Runner" is known far and wide on the island. Malcolm went way out of
his
way for us and we all had a super wonderful day!! Thanks Malcolm for
EVERYTHING!
While on this trip I saw several other Commanders including TCFG member
"Ticky" Hernadez 680, Capt Buck's 720 and 2, 500Bs. I also saw TCFG member
Sergio Molina flying his straight 500, twice! It was a great, once in a
lifetime opportunity to have some "Commander fun" jb
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: Derek Monk <britmonk(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Jet Commander
S/n 3. Later N409WT
Derek Monk
Another Commander historian
BertBerry1(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Does anyone here keep up with Jet Commanders? I'm trying to find out what
>the serial number was to N612J. Just a shot in the dark.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bert Berry
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: GEAT VACATION!
G'day Jim,
Great story and glad you had a super vacation! Thanks for sharing it with
us.
Cheers
Russell
---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:13:35 EST
>From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>Subject: Commander-List: GEAT VACATION!
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>HI KIDS....
>
> I just thought I would share Sue and my great time in the
Caribbean.
> We spent a week on the "Adventurer of the Seas" visiting ports of call in
>the southern Carib. But, before we left, we and two other aviation
couples
>(Dennis and Kerry Garman, retired Eastern airlines and Gary and Alyce
Rankin,
>press of the Navion Society) arrived a day early to tour San Juan.
> Our host, Jimmy Rodregiuez, was king enough to loan us his
gorgeous,
>beautiful AIR CONDITIONED 500B, S/N 1. for the day!!! It was a hoot!!
We left
>from the Isle Grande airport in old San Juan. Jimmy was there to meet
us and
>take the airplane out of the hangar and wave good bye. After a
preflight,
>we loaded up. The moment both engines were started, I turned on the
AC.
>Yippee, what a great machine.
> Departed to the East and made a sweeping turn to the left, right
across
>the top of the ship we would be boarding the next day, it was
sooooooooo
>cool. I followed the coastline and we were all amazed by the color of the
water.
> We flew around the large radio dish (used in a James Bond movie) and
took
>some great pix. Next, we went back to the shoreline and passed by my
favorite
>town, Isabelle. It is near the old B-52 base with it's 12,000' runway. We
>then turned inland a bit to miss the 15,000, cable attached to the radar
>balloon.
> Back along the coast we made our way to the town of Pounce.
Jimmy, Sue
>and I spent the night there when we were in town in July. It was great to
>see it from the air. I then turn back toward the beautiful lush green hills
on
>the center of the island. We skimmed the peaks and had a great view.
> Then back to the coast. We were about 3 miles off shore when we
spotted
>a pod of whales!! They were spouting and easy to see. I made a circle
>around them so everybody got a great look. Not to close as I didn't wan
to
>disturb them. A few minutes later, Dennis spotted a huge sea turtle. The
rest of
>us never saw it but they can reach 1000 lbs.
> From there we headed straight for the Island of Vicehies. This is the
>Island that the US Navy used for live ammo training. There was a huge
uproar
>a few years ago and the navy sadly left. On the east end of the Island
there
>is still much evidence of the past activity with burned out tanks, Howitzer
>artillery pieces and lots of craters. The restricted area that use to
>protect area is now gone so you can fly right over it. Too Cool!!
> We then turned and flew direct to the Island of Culebra. It is a great
>Island. we parked and walked to the side of the road where a bus just
>happened to be passing by. He picked us up and gave us a great tour of
the island.
> We found a wonderful restaurant on the water (I dangled my feed in the
>Caribbean sea while I waited for my "Cheeseburger in paradise") What
fun.
> We then went back to the plane and departed for an aerial tour of St.
>Thomas and St. John. We didn't stop because the cruse ship would be
taking us
>there in a few days but it was fun to see the islands from the air ahead of
>time.
> All to quickly, the day was done and we return to San Juan. We
landed
>next to the ship and one of Jimmy's helpers put the airplane away for us.
> It was am amazing opportunity and it is impossible to put into words
the
>gratitude we all feel for Jimmy for his amazing gift of the loan of his
>wonderful airplane. I will forever be in his debt!!
> At the end of the cruse we docked in St. Thomas. We were met at the
>dock by TCFG member Malcolm Ford who is just now purchasing a 560F.
We had
>rented a mini van large enough for all 7 of us and Malcolm spent the
entire day
>with us. We got a wonderful "local" tour of the island that you just cant
get
>any other way. We stopped for lunch at "tickle's" restaurant and say a
>couple of resident iguanas. A great treat for me! Malcolm stopped at a
super
>cool little hole in the wall ice cream shop that served the very best
milkshake
>I have EVER had!! They also serve milkshakes with a little rim added.
The
>"Rum Runner" is known far and wide on the island. Malcolm went way
out of his
>way for us and we all had a super wonderful day!! Thanks Malcolm for
>EVERYTHING!
> While on this trip I saw several other Commanders including TCFG
member
>"Ticky" Hernadez 680, Capt Buck's 720 and 2, 500Bs. I also saw TCFG
member
>Sergio Molina flying his straight 500, twice! It was a great, once in a
>lifetime opportunity to have some "Commander fun" jb
>
>
========================
========================
========================
========================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Subject: Re: GEAT VACATION!
In a message dated 11-Nov-04 00:02:06 Pacific Standard Time,
rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au writes:
> Great story and glad you had a super vacation! Thanks for sharing it with
> us.
Russell is right -- it was a super vacation. All too often vacations turn
out to be work instead of experiences that leave you renewed.
The adventure you told us about obviously was a Vacation (with a capital V)
and we can tell by your enthusiasm.
Welcome home, Capt. JimBob! (now get back to work)
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Subject: Re: GEAT VACATION!
In a message dated 11/11/2004 7:48:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
(now get back to work)
OK.........jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: KenWHyde(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Subject: SJU Vacation
Jim,
Dream vacation...Thanks. Great idea of TCFG getting a Commander based in SJU
for the Group..I'm in! Very kind of Jimmy Rodregiuez to loan his airplane.
Thanks Jimmy.
Ken Hyde(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Subject: KEN HYDE
HI KIDS.
I was watching a little TV this evening and on the discovery wings
channel saw a piece on Oshkosh 2003. There was a brief story about TCFG
member Ken Hyde!! Ken is the head of "The Wright Experience," the group that
duplicated the Wright Bros. flight at Kittyhawk in 2003. Ken owns a really nice
500S. It was cool to see him on the tube!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: JBOBSTER(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Subject: Re: KEN HYDE
Gang
got top spend some time with Ken at the TCFG meeting in KC....he is the
"genuine article"....we are fortunate to have a member of his caliber
Jim Carroll
Seattle WA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Subject: Re: KEN HYDE
In a message dated 11/11/2004 7:30:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
JBOBSTER(at)aol.com writes:
we are fortunate to have a member of his caliber
Amen that!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Rodriguez Colom" <jamesrodriguez(at)bppr.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Subject: SJU Vacation
Ken,
Just let us know when you're going to visit. Best Regards
Jimmy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
KenWHyde(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: SJU Vacation
Jim,
Dream vacation...Thanks. Great idea of TCFG getting a Commander based in
SJU
for the Group..I'm in! Very kind of Jimmy Rodregiuez to loan his
airplane.
Thanks Jimmy.
Ken Hyde(at)aol.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This communication and any attachments hereto contain information
that may be privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
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malintencionado, no podemos asegurar que as sea y, por lo tanto, no nos hacemos
responsables de cualquier dao atribuible al caso.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Love Field-Dallas airport
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Hi again guys,
The same group of friends, obviously with nomadic tendancies, also visited
Dallas-Love Field and reported seeing a Commander, N45CM.
A search of my database reveals one Commander which had those marks, a Model
680FLP, serial number 1501-17.
This was owned by Barron Thomas Aviation Inc., registered at Las Vegas, NM., but
was with Barron Thomas Aviation Inc at Dallas, TX before that. However, it was
cancelled on August 143th 1993 as exported to Mexico.
Despite the intervening 11 years, no Mexican marks have been traced.
So, did the sale fall through and did it remain at Love Field, as N45CM?
Anyone in the vicinity who could get a photo?
Very Best Regards,
Barry Collman
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Lancaster airport
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Hi guys,
Some friends recently visited Lancaster - William J Fox airport, in California.
They reported seeing a Commander there, N8467C.
My database shows a Commander with that 'N'number, serial 560F-1042-14. Howeverm
it was re-registered as N211SR in February 2000. Intriguingly though, the
current registered owner is Antelope Vally Community College, in Lancaster.
For those who know the airport, the Commander was on the first ramp at the
opposite end of the airport to where the museum is, near to the Fire Department
building.
Has anyone else seen it?
Could anyone photograph it for me?
Another mystery to solve!
Kindest Regards,
Barry Collman
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Ammete/Voltmeter
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Thanks to many of you who responded to my need of an ammeter/voltmeter recently.
The aircraft owner decided to replace the old units with digital ones,
that has been done and they work great.
I would like to be a nice guy and buy one from all the nice folks who
responded but that wouldn't be practical. Many thanks to Morris Kernick for
his valuable advice and knowledge. Thanks again for the response.
Ray Mansfield
N91ES, AC-680 FLP
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: PARTS AVAILABLE
Date: Nov 14, 2004
BH, COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR TYPE 3298-7M P/N 522-3908-001 S/N 297. WILL
TRY TO GET PICS WHEN SON RETURNS W/ DIG. CAMERA. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: W J R HAMILTON<mailto:wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: PARTS AVAILABLE
Mason,
Could you give me details of all the Collins FD components, including pics,
if possible.
My email is >
Cheers,
Bill hamilton.
At 02:44 12/10/2004, you wrote:
>
>IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED I HAVE THE FOLLOWING AVAILABLE THAT HAS BEEN
>REMOVED FROM MY 680FP:
>
>
>BOSE I HEADSET X 1
>BOSE II HEADSET X 1
>PARKER HANIFIN BRAKE PADS 066-09100 X 8
>SENNHEISER RS6 WIRELESS HEAD PHONE SYSTEM X 4
>COLLINS FLIGHT DIRECTOR 3298-7M/M522-3908 X 1
>BENDIX HSI TYPE 1903711-1 X 1
>MOTOROLA AUTO PILOT MOD 587D COMPLETE SYSTEM TO INCLUDE SERVOS ETC. X
1
>BENDIX RADAR INDICATOR 4000946-5201 X 1
>HYDROLIC PRESSURE GAGE 0-2000 SKYDROL X 1
>ADF INDICATOR IN 21B RECEIVER R-30A X 1
> DYNAVERTER DV-14A X
>ARC CON VERTER B-13A-1 X 1
>ARC RECEIVER R34A X 1
>VOLT METER SYSTEM X 1
>MELETRON PRESSURE ACTUATOR SWITCH X 1
>KN R 601 VOR/LOC RECEIVER 66-1030-00 X 1
>GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPASS AMPLIFIER 8KE26AD2 X 1
>BENDIX FUEL FLOW TRANSMITTER D193-54-A1 X 2
>PRESTOLIGHT STARTER MHW 4004 X 2
>HARTZELL PROP HUB UNIT X 2
>STUFF
>
>
>PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN ANY FOR THE ITEMS. MASON
>CHEVAILLIER 817-877-4977 OR 817-517-4977.
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Services
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Fw: The worst PC problem ever...
Date: Nov 16, 2004
-----Dear Tech Support,
Last year I upgraded from Girl! friend 7.0 to Wife 1.0. I soon noticed that the
new program began unexpected child processing that took up a lot of space and
valuable resources. In addition, Wife 1.0 installed itself into all other programs
and now monitors all other system activity. Applications such as Poker
Night 10.3, Football 5.0, Hunting and Fishing 7.5, and Racing 3.6 no longer run,
crashing the system whenever selected.
I can't seem to keep Wife 1.0 in the background while attempting to run my favorite
applications. I'm thinking about going back to Girlfriend 7.0, but the
un-install doesn't work on Wife 1.0. Please help!
Thanks,
A Troubled User. (KEEP READING)
______________________________________
REPLY:
Dear Troubled User:
This is a very common problem that men complain about.
Many people upgrade from Girlfriend 7.0 to Wife 1.0, thinking that it is just
a Utilities and Entertainment program. Wife 1.0 is an OPERATING SYSTEM and is
designed by its Creator to run EVERYTHING!!! It is also impossible to delete
Wife 1.0 and to return to Girlfriend 7.0. It is impossible to un-install, or purge
the program files from the system once installed.
You cannot go back to Girlfriend 7.0 because Wife 1.0 is designed to not allow
this. Look in your Wife 1.0 manual under Warnings-Alimony-Child Support. I recommend
that you keep Wife 1.0 and work on improving the situation. I suggest
installing the background application "Yes Dear" to alleviate software augmentation.
!
The best course of action is to enter the command C:\APOLOGIZE because ultimately
you will have to give the APOLOGIZE command before the system will return
to normal anyway.
Wife 1.0 is a great program, but it tends to be very high maintenance. Wife 1.0
comes with several support programs, such as Clean and Sweep 3.0, Cook It 1.5
and Do Bills 4.2.
However, be very careful how you use these programs. Improper use will cause
the system to launch the program Nag 9.5. Once this happens, the only way to improve
the performance of Wife 1.0 is to purchase additional software. I recommend
Flowers 2.1 and Diamonds 5.0 !
WARNING!!! DO NOT, under any circumstances, install Secretary With Short Skirt
3.3. This application is not supported by Wife 1.0 and will cause irreversible
damage to the operating system.
Finally, be advised that if you persist in installing Secretary With Short Skirt
3.3, not even Prayer 9.9 purchased at your nearest church or synagogue will
help.
Best of luck,
Tech Support PS: buying a Mac won't help. (This is your fault -
not Microsoft's)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
Date: Nov 19, 2004
Hello,
I'm looking for a working Bendix M4 autopilot black box. I assume it's the
main control electronics for the autopilot which in my plane is located in the
baggage compartment.
The one I had sent to Sanford, FL for checkout has a bad internal board. The
folks there have been looking for a replacement but have, at least to this
point, not indicated they have located one. Sooo...I'm asking you guys if anyone
knows where such an animal can be had in workding condition.
I fly an Aero Commander 680 FLP, N91ES, out of Destin, FL, but the autopilot
has been inop since I took over the flying from another pilot. I've finally
persuaded the owner to at least have a technician look at the thing so we can
find out what's wrong.
Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.
Ray Mansfield
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 20, 2004
Subject: Re: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
In a message dated 19-Nov-04 20:17:04 Pacific Standard Time, hcourier(at)cox.net
writes:
> I fly an Aero Commander 680 FLP, N91ES, out of Destin, FL, but the
> autopilot has been inop since I took over the flying from another pilot. =20I've
> finally persuaded the owner to at least have a technician look at the thing so
we
> can find out what's wrong.
>
> Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.
Ray,
You should contact:
Autopilot Central
3112 N. 74th East Avenue
Tulsa OK 74115
tel 918-836-6418
fax 918-835-3534
attn: Barry Sparks
They may be the last outpost of M4-C and D expertise and parts.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: N616CT
Date: Nov 20, 2004
Attention K-Mart shoppers!
This is second hand info
N616CT a 500B was damaged during our hurricane season this year. It is
located at the West Palm Beach airport. Is probably going to be chopped up
so the insurance company can move it. If any body is interested in pursuing
the rescue you had better hurry.
I have no further information.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: N616CT
Date: Nov 20, 2004
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the information. I may be flying to West Palm Beach this
coming Wednesday so I'll see what I can find, and check today to see what's
up with the aircraft. I was at PBI last week, wish I knew about N616CT then.
Thanks.
Ray Mansfield
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Commander-List: N616CT
>
> Attention K-Mart shoppers!
> This is second hand info
> N616CT a 500B was damaged during our hurricane season this year. It is
> located at the West Palm Beach airport. Is probably going to be chopped
> up
> so the insurance company can move it. If any body is interested in
> pursuing
> the rescue you had better hurry.
>
> I have no further information.
>
> bilbo
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray_611(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Hi Ray:
This is Jerry Sprayberry, Met you when you first got the 91ES, at Lafayette.
About your Auto-Pilot, You sent it to the wrong place, I get my work done at
Avionics Inc. in KLUK Lunken. Joe Bavis will even work with you on the
Phone to trouble Shoot the System, He has kept mine going for three years,
Autopilot Central that CloudCraft told you about, are very expensive and
they don't know the A/P, They may have a long time ago but the people I
dealt with didn't.
I have Two Spares, M-4 and M-4B. Come to 9A5 and we will check it out, with
Bavis on the phone, we probably can get it going.
Jerry 706 857-1466
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for a working Bendix M4 autopilot black box. I assume it's
> the main control electronics for the autopilot which in my plane is
> located in the baggage compartment.
>
> The one I had sent to Sanford, FL for checkout has a bad internal
> board. The folks there have been looking for a replacement but have, at
> least to this point, not indicated they have located one. Sooo...I'm
> asking you guys if anyone knows where such an animal can be had in
> workding condition.
>
> I fly an Aero Commander 680 FLP, N91ES, out of Destin, FL, but the
> autopilot has been inop since I took over the flying from another pilot.
> I've finally persuaded the owner to at least have a technician look at the
> thing so we can find out what's wrong.
>
> Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Ray Mansfield
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Coons" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net>
Subject: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Jerry & Ray,
Yes, Joe works on ancient autopilots. His shop is a tribute to less than
modern systems.
Give him a call. Be fore warned he can be crotchety at times, but they know
the old equipment well. By the way his last name is Babis.
Ray, if you bring your bird to KLUK give me a shout and I'll treat you to a
beverage and give you the tour of Cincinnati.
Kevin Coons
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Sprayberry
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
Hi Ray:
This is Jerry Sprayberry, Met you when you first got the 91ES, at Lafayette.
About your Auto-Pilot, You sent it to the wrong place, I get my work done at
Avionics Inc. in KLUK Lunken. Joe Bavis will even work with you on the
Phone to trouble Shoot the System, He has kept mine going for three years,
Autopilot Central that CloudCraft told you about, are very expensive and
they don't know the A/P, They may have a long time ago but the people I
dealt with didn't.
I have Two Spares, M-4 and M-4B. Come to 9A5 and we will check it out, with
Bavis on the phone, we probably can get it going.
Jerry 706 857-1466
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for a working Bendix M4 autopilot black box. I assume it's
> the main control electronics for the autopilot which in my plane is
> located in the baggage compartment.
>
> The one I had sent to Sanford, FL for checkout has a bad internal
> board. The folks there have been looking for a replacement but have, at
> least to this point, not indicated they have located one. Sooo...I'm
> asking you guys if anyone knows where such an animal can be had in
> workding condition.
>
> I fly an Aero Commander 680 FLP, N91ES, out of Destin, FL, but the
> autopilot has been inop since I took over the flying from another pilot.
> I've finally persuaded the owner to at least have a technician look at the
> thing so we can find out what's wrong.
>
> Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Ray Mansfield
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Google Project : Keyhole World Mapping
Date: Nov 21, 2004
From: "John McNulty" <JMcNulty(at)socalpizza.com>
Hi All -
I received a blurb from Google a couple of days ago about one of their
new projects - this one based on the "Blue Marble" world mapping
initiative.
There is one-week demo version available at www.keyhole.com
<http://www.keyhole.com/> that I'm
encouraging everyone to look at - especially pilot friends. Take a look
and the benefits are obvious... if not a bit scary....
Regards all - Happy Thanksgiving
John McNulty
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Thanks Kevin,
I don't get up that way often, my owner flies in Alabama, south Florida
and N & S Carolina a lot. Sound like a good deal to keep in the back of my
head.
Ray M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Coons" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
>
>
> Jerry & Ray,
>
> Yes, Joe works on ancient autopilots. His shop is a tribute to less than
> modern systems.
>
> Give him a call. Be fore warned he can be crotchety at times, but they
> know
> the old equipment well. By the way his last name is Babis.
>
> Ray, if you bring your bird to KLUK give me a shout and I'll treat you to
> a
> beverage and give you the tour of Cincinnati.
>
> Kevin Coons
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
> Sprayberry
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
>
>
>
> Hi Ray:
>
> This is Jerry Sprayberry, Met you when you first got the 91ES, at
> Lafayette.
>
> About your Auto-Pilot, You sent it to the wrong place, I get my work done
> at
>
> Avionics Inc. in KLUK Lunken. Joe Bavis will even work with you on the
> Phone to trouble Shoot the System, He has kept mine going for three years,
> Autopilot Central that CloudCraft told you about, are very expensive and
> they don't know the A/P, They may have a long time ago but the people I
> dealt with didn't.
>
> I have Two Spares, M-4 and M-4B. Come to 9A5 and we will check it out,
> with
>
> Bavis on the phone, we probably can get it going.
>
> Jerry 706 857-1466
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
>
>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm looking for a working Bendix M4 autopilot black box. I assume
>> it's
>
>> the main control electronics for the autopilot which in my plane is
>> located in the baggage compartment.
>>
>> The one I had sent to Sanford, FL for checkout has a bad internal
>> board. The folks there have been looking for a replacement but have, at
>> least to this point, not indicated they have located one. Sooo...I'm
>> asking you guys if anyone knows where such an animal can be had in
>> workding condition.
>>
>> I fly an Aero Commander 680 FLP, N91ES, out of Destin, FL, but the
>> autopilot has been inop since I took over the flying from another pilot.
>> I've finally persuaded the owner to at least have a technician look at
>> the
>
>> thing so we can find out what's wrong.
>>
>> Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.
>>
>> Ray Mansfield
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: AC at Camarillo
Date: Nov 21, 2004
I dropped into the Waypoint Cafe at Camarillo today to just quickly check
what's going on while an Easter was howling and saw the distinct tail-shape
of an AC behind some PC's. I braved the chilling wind and walked over to see
some guys getting into N690DB, a -10 690A (with the picture window, that's
an A, no?). Just as the last guy embarked I caught his attention and gave
him my business card asking him to email me so I can introduce him to the
list. Forgot to ask where they were heading. Pity. I waited around (in the
wind) to watch them take off. Everything was quiet as they taxied out but as
they flew past after take-off, three other planes started up around me, so I
couldn't appreciate the flypast. Darn!
As soon as I hear from them, I hope they will tell us about their flight. I
searched on the Internet and saw that it's a Duncan Aviation
(duncancomponents.com) plane. Is that info still current?
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Subject: Re: AC at Camarillo
In a message dated 21-Nov-04 19:06:21 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> I braved the chilling wind and walked over to see
> some guys getting into N690DB, a -10 690A (with the picture window, that's
> an A, no?).
Nico,
You're so dedicated -- standing out in the wind (and rain?) to watch a
Commander take off!
In the turbine Commanaders, the "picture window" belongs to the 690, 690A, B,
C (called the 840) and 695 (called the 980). That's what you can set your
sights on, in the field.
If it was a dash 10, market economics probably makes it an A or B ... unless
it was an 840, but the N number, "690," gives it away.
It's an A but I had to look at the FAA's aircraft registration web site to
know that. ;-)
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: AC at Camarillo
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Fortunately no rain, just cold.
I have a few weaknesses in life. Commanders is one of them. Especially the
ones with lots of horsepower. A dash 10 is just too damn cool.
I dream that one day I could set up an organization that would seek, salvage
and restore all Commanders. To hell with ROI.
Wouldn't that be something?
(If you set out to achieve something at all cost, it will cost all.)
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC at Camarillo
>
> In a message dated 21-Nov-04 19:06:21 Pacific Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> > I braved the chilling wind and walked over to see
> > some guys getting into N690DB, a -10 690A (with the picture window,
that's
> > an A, no?).
>
> Nico,
>
> You're so dedicated -- standing out in the wind (and rain?) to watch a
> Commander take off!
>
> In the turbine Commanaders, the "picture window" belongs to the 690, 690A,
B,
> C (called the 840) and 695 (called the 980). That's what you can set
your
> sights on, in the field.
>
> If it was a dash 10, market economics probably makes it an A or B ...
unless
> it was an 840, but the N number, "690," gives it away.
>
> It's an A but I had to look at the FAA's aircraft registration web site to
> know that. ;-)
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Subject: Re: AC at Camarillo
In a message dated 21-Nov-04 19:44:50 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> I dream that one day I could set up an organization that would seek,
> salvage
> and restore all Commanders. To hell with ROI. Wouldn't that be something?
>
Well, then, when I win $138 million in the lottery, I'll have you head up
that division of my empire.
Your assignment is to resurrect the Orenda engine program for the 685 and 680
-F series with a budget of only $137 million.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: AC at Camarillo
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Sure. We will use the other million to have fun.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC at Camarillo
>
> In a message dated 21-Nov-04 19:44:50 Pacific Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> > I dream that one day I could set up an organization that would seek,
> > salvage
> > and restore all Commanders. To hell with ROI. Wouldn't that be
something?
> >
>
> Well, then, when I win $138 million in the lottery, I'll have you head up
> that division of my empire.
>
> Your assignment is to resurrect the Orenda engine program for the 685 and
680
> -F series with a budget of only $137 million.
>
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Subject: Re: AC at Camarillo
In a message dated 21-Nov-04 20:23:44 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Sure. We will use the other million to have fun.
Sorry. I'm keeping one million, so I can buy an airplane and go broke.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: AC at Camarillo
Date: Nov 21, 2004
Why is the Orenda/AC progam stalled? It appears to be doing well in ag
planes. http://www.agairupdate.com/aau/articles/2002/oct2002.html
and http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-ac685.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC at Camarillo
>
> In a message dated 21-Nov-04 19:44:50 Pacific Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> > I dream that one day I could set up an organization that would seek,
> > salvage
> > and restore all Commanders. To hell with ROI. Wouldn't that be
something?
> >
>
> Well, then, when I win $138 million in the lottery, I'll have you head up
> that division of my empire.
>
> Your assignment is to resurrect the Orenda engine program for the 685 and
680
> -F series with a budget of only $137 million.
>
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 22, 2004
Subject: Orenda Engines
In a message dated 21-Nov-04 20:42:40 Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Why is the Orenda/AC progam stalled? It appears to be doing well in ag
> planes. http://www.agairupdate.com/aau/articles/2002/oct2002.html
> and http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-ac685.htm
Nico,
That's kind of a charged topic, and I don't mean turbo charged.
The articles you refer to are not very current, I'd say.
The Orenda engine project and prototype was the brain child of Richard P.
MacCoon (Mr. RPM) and installation started at Commander-Aero where it was
beautifully executed by Gary Kromer. It flew. It was real.
The whole kit and kaboodle moved to Dakota Aero of Devil's Lake, North
Dakota. What happened next was ... not much. The reasons are many, as may=20be
the
law suits, but the bottom line is the program stalled, and Dakota Aero has
closed its doors.
That's the Aero Commander perspective. Running parallel (actually, a little
behind Mr. RPM and Commander-Aero) was Steven's Beechcraft who was going to
retrofit King Air 90s with the Orenda. That project was being run by Hugh Evans
who did the Merlyn conversions on the AC-500B,U and S. (See ... Commanders
are always in the mix!)
Don't know why that project never got off the ground as the number of engines
for that ambitious program would have easily started up the production line
in Canada.
The argument can be made that the next engine program to come along better be
one that is based on kerosene and not Avgas, but that's not what caused the
Orenda project to stop.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Orenda Engines
Date: Nov 21, 2004
More in line with the new-age, common-rail diesels, I suppose.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Orenda Engines
>
> In a message dated 21-Nov-04 20:42:40 Pacific Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> > Why is the Orenda/AC progam stalled? It appears to be doing well in ag
> > planes. http://www.agairupdate.com/aau/articles/2002/oct2002.html
> > and http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-ac685.htm
>
> Nico,
>
> That's kind of a charged topic, and I don't mean turbo charged.
>
> The articles you refer to are not very current, I'd say.
>
> The Orenda engine project and prototype was the brain child of Richard P.
> MacCoon (Mr. RPM) and installation started at Commander-Aero where it was
> beautifully executed by Gary Kromer. It flew. It was real.
>
> The whole kit and kaboodle moved to Dakota Aero of Devil's Lake, North
> Dakota. What happened next was ... not much. The reasons are many, as
may=20be the
> law suits, but the bottom line is the program stalled, and Dakota Aero has
> closed its doors.
>
> That's the Aero Commander perspective. Running parallel (actually, a
little
> behind Mr. RPM and Commander-Aero) was Steven's Beechcraft who was going
to
> retrofit King Air 90s with the Orenda. That project was being run by Hugh
Evans
> who did the Merlyn conversions on the AC-500B,U and S. (See ...
Commanders
> are always in the mix!)
>
> Don't know why that project never got off the ground as the number of
engines
> for that ambitious program would have easily started up the production
line
> in Canada.
>
> The argument can be made that the next engine program to come along better
be
> one that is based on kerosene and not Avgas, but that's not what caused
the
> Orenda project to stop.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: RnJThompson(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 22, 2004
Subject: Re: Orenda Engines
Hi All
I spoke to Dick a while back about noise and his 685. He told me that he had
been approached by the Discovery Channel who were to do a program called
American Airplane. From what I can gather they were about to throw a lot of money
at the project. New paint, glass cockpit, interior etc. Dick intimated that the
fee would cover the certification. I believe that it is due to air some time
in the middle of next year.Basically the story covers advances in the GA area.
As done by those who do and not by the established suppliers , who have not
had an origional thought in the last 50 years.
It seems that the 500 that crashed in Tasmania a while ago did not have any
structural defects. The search is now on to determine why the aircraft broke
up. So the FAA and our useless mob should not have any nasty surprises for us.
Hope all is well in commanderland.
Regards
Richard
PS. I have come up with a great solution to the noise problem in augmented
commanders. Will be doing noise testing on the ground in the next few weeks.
Will keep all informed on the outcome.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
Date: Nov 22, 2004
Jerry/Ray,
If you guys need parts I have a lot of them and a complete manual, which I
would sell for very cheap. I also have some test "boxes" that we made to
check servos with. There are two "brain boxes", one of which worked well on
the last flight that it was used on, and the other has been "robbed" a
little.
I finally "threw in the towel" on the M4.
Regards,
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray_611(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
>
> Hi Ray:
>
> This is Jerry Sprayberry, Met you when you first got the 91ES, at
Lafayette.
>
> About your Auto-Pilot, You sent it to the wrong place, I get my work done
at
> Avionics Inc. in KLUK Lunken. Joe Bavis will even work with you on the
> Phone to trouble Shoot the System, He has kept mine going for three years,
> Autopilot Central that CloudCraft told you about, are very expensive and
> they don't know the A/P, They may have a long time ago but the people I
> dealt with didn't.
>
> I have Two Spares, M-4 and M-4B. Come to 9A5 and we will check it out,
with
> Bavis on the phone, we probably can get it going.
>
> Jerry 706 857-1466
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Bendix M4 Autopilot Black Box
>
>
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm looking for a working Bendix M4 autopilot black box. I assume
it's
> > the main control electronics for the autopilot which in my plane is
> > located in the baggage compartment.
> >
> > The one I had sent to Sanford, FL for checkout has a bad internal
> > board. The folks there have been looking for a replacement but have, at
> > least to this point, not indicated they have located one. Sooo...I'm
> > asking you guys if anyone knows where such an animal can be had in
> > workding condition.
> >
> > I fly an Aero Commander 680 FLP, N91ES, out of Destin, FL, but the
> > autopilot has been inop since I took over the flying from another pilot.
> > I've finally persuaded the owner to at least have a technician look at
the
> > thing so we can find out what's wrong.
> >
> > Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.
> >
> > Ray Mansfield
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Aerial Photographers?
Date: Nov 22, 2004
Hello Listers,
I'm on the cusp of getting 353 Chicken Charlie back from paint & interior, and
would really like to get some high quality air-to-air photos of her in her new
colors. Does anyone know of a reputable, reasonably priced (ok, ha ha) photographer?
Jimbob, aren't you friends with someone who does this?
Thanks & can't wait to share the pix when 353CC gets back into town, hopefully
in the next 10 days or so!
/John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 22, 2004
Subject: Re: Aerial Photographers?
In a message dated 11/22/2004 11:07:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,
john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
I'm on the cusp of getting 353 Chicken Charlie back from paint & interior,
and would really like to get some high quality air-to-air photos of her in her
new colors. Does anyone know of a reputable, reasonably priced (ok, ha ha)
photographer?
Jimbob, aren't you friends with someone who does this?
Yep, he will do it. What number should I have him contact you at?? Do you
want me to help with the flying?? et me know. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Alien Crossing Sightings
Date: Nov 24, 2004
1.15 OBFUSCATING_COMMENT HTML comments which obfuscate text
Joe Blundo, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada
has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols
to stop the illegal immigration.
The re-election of President Bush is prompting the exodus among
left-leaning citizens who fear they'll soon be required to hunt, pray
and agree with Bill O'Reilly.
Canadian border farmers say it's not uncommon to see dozens of sociology
professors, animal-rights activists and Unitarians crossing their fields
at night.
"I we! nt out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood
producer huddled in the barn," said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield,
whose acreage borders North Dakota.
The producer was cold, exhausted and hungry.
"He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken. When
I said I didn't have any, he left. Didn't even get a chance to show him
my screenplay, eh?"
In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences,
but the liberals scaled them. So he tried installing speakers that blare
Rush Limbaugh across the fields.
"Not real effective," he said. "The liberals still got through, and Rush
annoyed the cows so much they wouldn't give milk."
Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals
near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons, drive
them across the border and leave them to fend for themselves.
"A lot of these people are not prepared for rugged conditions," an
Ontario border patrolman said. "I found one carload without a drop of
drinking water. They did have a nice little Napa Valley cabernet, though."
When liberals are caught, they're sent back across the border, often
wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors
have bee! n circulating about the Bush administration establishing
re-education camps in which liberals will be forced to drink domestic
beer and watch NASCAR.
In the days since the election, liberals have turned to sometimes-ingenious
ways of crossing the border.
Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on bus trips to buy cheap
Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen young vegans
disguised in powdered wigs, Canadian immigration authorities began
stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior-citizen passengers.
"If they can't identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show,
we get suspicious about their age," an official said.
Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating
an organic-broccoli shortage and renting all the good Susan Sarandon movies.
"I feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just can't
support them," an Ottawa resident said. "How many art-history majors does
one country need?"
In an effort to ease tensions between the United States and Canada, Vice
President Dick Cheney met with the Canadian ambassador and pledged that
the administration would take steps to reassure liberals, a source close
to Cheney said.
"We're going to have some Peter, Paul & Mary concerts. And we might put
some endangered species on postage stamps. The president is determinedto reach
out."
Joe Blundo is a Dispatch columnist.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 25, 2004
Subject: Re: Alien Crossing Sightings
GRRRRRRRREEEEATT!! JB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Alien Crossing Sightings
Date: Nov 25, 2004
2001M/70QT WISHES EVERYONE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING. BE SAFE!
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Alien Crossing Sightings
GRRRRRRRREEEEATT!! JB
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2004
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Lister Comments - Please Support The Lists
Dear Listers,
Wow! People have been including some very nice comments along with their
Contributions lately! I've included another set of below and will send
another set in a couple of days.
Guys, I really appreciate your kind words and support. In the last few
days, the contributions have really started to come in and its looking like
support this year may slightly surpass last year's. There's still a few
days left in this year's Fund Raiser, so if you've been waiting until the
last minute to make your Contribution, now's the time!
Make Your Contribution Today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
----------------- More of What Listers Are Saying... --------------------
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Robert G.
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and wonder how I could ever have made it this far without [the Lists].
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Steele" <bob.steele(at)kzf.com>
Subject: Lou Tran
Date: Nov 29, 2004
Does anyone have a telephone number at which I can reach Lou?
Thanks
Bob Steele
bob.steele(at)kzf.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <service@commander-aero.com>
Subject: Lou Tran
Date: Nov 29, 2004
Lou Tran 734-782-6604
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
Steele
Subject: Commander-List: Lou Tran
Does anyone have a telephone number at which I can reach Lou?
Thanks
Bob Steele
bob.steele(at)kzf.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Steele" <bob.steele(at)kzf.com>
Subject: Lou Tran
Date: Nov 29, 2004
Thanks Gary!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
service@commander-aero.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Lou Tran
Lou Tran 734-782-6604
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
Steele
Subject: Commander-List: Lou Tran
Does anyone have a telephone number at which I can reach Lou?
Thanks
Bob Steele
bob.steele(at)kzf.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Fallujah
Date: Nov 29, 2004
This is on good authority, folks. I know the people.
Because I have received this opportunity to aid in a proper understanding not obtainable
from most media, I have decided that I should. Please understand that
- having once been a naval communications officer - I have removed those parts
that might put someone in some jeopardy.
14 November 2005
Camp in Fallujah, Iraq
Dear Friends,
I know it's been some time since you've heard from me in this format. We have
been very busy with the push into Fallujah. The most of our work increased on
the morning of Tuesday (date removed). Right after morning rounds they started
rolling in. Wednesday was even busier, and it stayed that way for about a
week. At this point we've treated hundreds of casualties, both American and Iraqi
Army fighters, many insurgents and a few civilians. We here at Surgical
have treated the majority of all the casualties from this particular assault.
I've seen things I never dreamed possible - both in the positive and the negative.
The positive is the fighting spirit of the American Marine and soldier.
The first question they ask is when they can get back to the fight. The next
question is to find out how their injured buddies are. They may well have gone
a day or two without sleep and a long time without eating. They come in dusty
and dirty and bloody and with earnest trustfulness that we will make them better.
Invariably, when I tell them what needs to be done, the response is "just
do what you have to do, doc." We get that response even when we tell them
that they will probably lose an arm or leg or need surgery for other wounds.
The positives I see is a team of folks - many of whom have never been in an operational
billet, and most of whom have never treated trauma victims - rise to
the occasion and sustain the commitment and dedication this situation requires.
Several corpstaff worked for 48 hours without a break on the first wave -
as they cleaned the trauma bay to get ready for more incoming casualties, they
still had a sense of humor - and I've got a photo to prove it. Our surgeons
have done literally dozens of surgeries per day - some of them with only minutes
notice. We admitted and discharged and medevaced hundreds - with no patient
lost or misplaced or without all the right records. I'm not aware of any medication
error or patient complaint. Most of the staff are working 18-20 hour
days and despite this, I have not seen a single loss of temper, an argument or
emotional outburst. This team has maintained collegial respect throughout all
of this.
The negatives are the ones you could imagine as well as I, except that I have seen
it with my own eyes. I have seen it and felt it and smelled it all; I've
felt the burden of pronouncing more Angels than I ever want to do again. I've
lived the tragedy of seeing someone come in with wounds so severe that I know
their life will end this day. There is an ache that comes with seeing these
losses - I think of who will be receiving this awful news in the next several
hours and how they will find strength to cope and grieve and get back someday
to a place where they can see joy and beauty in life. I wonder how we will accept
completely the man who is incomplete - having lost arm, leg, eye or multiples
of all of these - and how that Marine will cope after being in perfect physical
shape with new scars and an imperfect body. I grieve for the insurgents
that are left to die by their own people and come in days later with rotting
wounds - they must feel a sense of betrayal, or perhaps they see only their martyrdom.
I would like to be able to talk with them and ask what they think and
feel as we gently and respectfully care for them. Do they still want to see
us dead?
Our work will probably continue at a very busy pace. There will still be pockets
of resistance and American casualties. We will probably see many more insurgent
casualties as our troops find them abandoned and forgotten in sheds, houses
and fields. The adrenaline that has driven the company will soon run low
- people are learning to take short naps whenever they can - and do so without
guilt. I took a short nap and could not sleep longer, so am writing this.
Our lives are somewhat constrained through all of this. In some ways we hardly
notice it as we've just worked continually. We are in flak/Kevlar anytime we're
outside and that limits our ability to run outside. The gyms were closed
for several days and are now open; the phone tents remain closed. Internet has
been limited to emails within theatre - that may have been lifted today. The
chow hall has been closed except for take out at breakfast and dinner. Lunch
is MREs only. The base is exceptionally quiet with most of the troops somewhere
deep in the city of Fallujah.
21 November 2004
I got busy with other things and set this aside for a few days. I took a day "off"
and spent it at the pool doing nothing but drawing and enjoying the sunshine
and fresh air. I promised myself I would not go back into the hospital after
I finished rounds and the morning work. It was a nice vacation - thankfully
quiet enough that we did not need extra people working.
The weather here is perfect Indian summer. Highs are probably 80's-90's and the
nights are cool like San Diego, but still pleasant enough for just gym shorts
for the walk to the shower trailers. We had rain several days ago and it washed
the dust off plants and encouraged new growth. I understand that we eliminated
the electricity for Fallujah so the night sky is even more spectacular
with little extraneous light. I probably haven't seen stars like this since childhood.
Things are generally back to our routine here. It's interesting to see the evolution
of war wounds. I suppose your average general surgeon has an intuitive
feel for this, but I'm watching and learning many things about wounds and healing.
I know all about frags, as we call them. Let me get you up to speed on
frags. You could call frags schrapnel but we've learned that schrapnel technically
refers to a specific type of grenade-type weapon designed by General Schrapnel.
The term frag refers to all the various types of fragments that can
injure a person, whether from a grenade, and IED or mortar. A frag is usually
metallic, so we use a lot of Xrays to look for them under the skin. A frag wound
may be large or small; we've seem some Marines look like they've been peppered
with hundreds of tiny fragments; some Marines may have a few large frag
wounds that could be fatal, and there are variations in between. When we find
a frag under the skin, we don't necessarily remove it - in fact we won't go after
it surgically unless it's in a joint or impairing nerves or blood vessels.
They may stay in that soft tissue for a lifetime; they may gradually work their
way to the surface and get extracted. All frag wounds are considered dirty
wounds - they track dirt and debris with them - so there is a chance of infection
in the wounds. We have to wash them out to clean them; sometimes that
means a trip to the OR to put them to sleep to wash out deep wounds, but it may
mean just a trip to the showers to soap down and then cover with dressings.
Everyone gets a shot of antibiotics to help prevent infection. Depending on
the severity of the wound, the Marine may need to be medevaced for longer wound
care - we medevaced literally hundreds of Marines for this. In slower times
we keep these same patients in our hospital and return them back to duty when
they are healed, but we could have filled our hospital to almost 10 times the
capacity if we'd kept all of them.
It's now several days since injury for many of these Marines and they are coming
back for wound checks. I'm learning that the pain from these soft tissue injuries
can last for a long time - it takes a while for the body to develop a "scar"
around the frag to reduce the irritation it may cause. All of these guys
are impatient to return to the fight and try everything to convince me that
they can still shoot their weapon and are ready to fight again. I suspect that
for every wounded Marine that we see there are several out there that simply
don't own up to having wounds so they can stay in the fight.
We are back to planning fun events. We have a corpstaff appreciation breakfast
this Saturday in which the officers will serve breakfast to all the corpstaff
in the chow hall. We're planning a dinner for all the doctors from the local
Battallion Aid Stations to show our appreciation to them. Each of them spent
many long hours with us during the surge - they were not required to do that
but they worked side by side with us resuscitating everyone that came in. It
was a good experience for all of us - some of these guys were interns a just few
months ago and now they are running trauma codes on critical patients and doing
a superb job. We've got another slide show set to music almost done - this
one will be simply fun! There are 5K, 10K races, bet pools for our departure
date, talent shows and plans to go Christmas Caroling in a 7-ton..
I want to thank everyone for their generosity in letters, cards, emails and care
packages. I've gotten letters from strangers and they tell me that one of you
has passed on the stories I've sent you. It's incredibly heartwarming to get
a thank you note from someone I've never met. It's a wonderful feeling to
know that there are many who believe in us. You may agree or disagree with the
politics of the war, but I see that those of us here have simply answered our
nations call to serve. I hope that someday the only call to serve in a foreign
land will be to fight hunger and poverty and that our only weapons will be
food, medicine, books and goodwill. But for now, the call is to a war with brutal
realities. I've received wonderful love and support in care packages from
(name removed) (2 really great collections of goodies), (name removed) (excellent
toiletries and inspirational items for the whole company), (name removed)
(I've already used the watercoloring kit!), (name removed) (coffee creamers
were the best! low-fat popcorn is a godsend!), (name removed) (several boxes
of pillows and pillow cases for patients, rechargeable penlights for the company,
and the much-coveted coffee cups), (name removed) (business cards, great CDs,
paper, photos, fruit, thumb drive, CD label maker), (name removed) (beautiful
Christmas stocking, book, Santa, and candy), (name removed (Christmas cards,
pillow cases, mags and toiletries), (name removed) (jelly beans, exercise gear!
DVD, CD, calendar and energy drinks), (name removed) (real silverware, candy),
(name removed) (heavenly Harry and David snacks - wonderful!), (name removed)
(pressed flowers, Halloween candy), (name removed) (a luxurious down throw,
peanut brittle, lollipops and cards and fall leaves), (name removed) (bath
set - mmmm!), (name removed) (magazines), (name removed) (a great box of teas),
(name removed) (Christmas cards), (name removed) (homemade cookies - to die
for!, jerky, candy, Christmas cards, toiletries, magazines) and a great card
from (name removed) representing the Northwest Navy Nurse Corps Association (everyone
knows that my best friends are nurses!).
I learned that I am living in the same room that T once lived in. T is my friend
who served here from _____ until ______. She's the best Physican Assistant
there is and I learned a great deal from her experience here. It's wonderful
knowing that I'm living in the same spaces she did - it's good karma.
I wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Take time to breathe in all the goodness
around you. I believe that God will make sure that we shall not lack - for anything!
My love to all,
M
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Fw: Nice Approach
Date: Nov 30, 2004
I sure am glad illusions are optical...
Nico
This is what you call an "optical conclusion. Bob Cannon
Some guy took the same kind of photo when L16 was under fire. A jet landing
at LGB while a GA plane was landing at L16. Same result: the Jet looked like
it was going to hit the GA plane.
Seems to be a photo mounting, but it isn't. It's real.
Explanation:
A Lufthansa 747-400 and a United 757-200 are on simultaneous landing approaches
on the parallel runways 28L and 28R at SFO.
Runway separation is 225 meters
Due to the Jumbo being 3 times larger than the 757 and being behind gives us
this fantastic optical illusion of seeming to fly too close together.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
"commander-list" ,
"DAN BRUHL" , "JOE PACE" ,
"john chambers" ,
"john MCNULTY" , "MOE MILLS" ,
"SCOTT PARKER" ,
"TROY WELCH" ,
"W. Kent Riley"
Subject: Fw: Fw: Spacecraft
Date: Dec 01, 2004
----- Original Message -----
From: JOE BOND<mailto:bondousa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Spacecraft
--- Jpsullivan7(at)aol.com wrote:
> From: Jpsullivan7(at)aol.com<mailto:Jpsullivan7(at)aol.com>
> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:54:27 EST
> Subject: Fwd: Fw: Spacecraft
> To: WFBalas(at)aol.com, wjendres(at)earthlink.net,
> RJLAVENDER(at)PRODIGY.NET,
> OutlawAv(at)aol.com, PAT.MCBRIDE(at)VERIZON.NET,
> phreatdawg(at)yahoo.com,
> S.BONNER(at)SBCGLOBAL.NET,
> scottjoani(at)sbcglobal.net, SJROBERTS(at)FEDEX.COM,
> DanMurphy07(at)aol.com, Fortflier(at)aol.com,
> FRANKC(at)COX.NET,
> FREDWHITNEY(at)SPRINTMAIL.COM,
> GLENBOB1(at)YAHOO.COM, JOHNHATH(at)SBCGLOBAL.NET,
> LTubor(at)aol.com, CRS98(at)OPTONLINE.NET,
> b17drvr(at)earthlink.net,
> B737JOCK(at)aol.com, BBATTLEY(at)CHARTER.NET,
> BONDOUSA(at)YAHOO.COM,
> michaelrees1(at)yahoo.com,
> MIKEGRAHAM(at)HOUSTON.RR.COM
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
> From: <phsh(at)marinanet.net<mailto:phsh(at)marinanet.net>>
> To: "Tom Simon" >, "Phil
> Turnbull" >,
> "Patrick A McBride"
> >,
> "Ken Lee" >, "Jim
> Sullivan" >,
> "Ian Moodie" >, "Graham"
> >,
> "Bradford" >, "Art
> Pasquali" >
> Subject: Fw: Spacecraft
> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:53:34 -0600
>
>
> Compliments of Lou Lacy, one of our Capts.......
>
> Dale
>
>
> I just had the extreme pleasure of speaking with
> Mike Melvill
>
> yesterday, the pilot of SpaceShipOne's first two
> flights above the
>
> Karman line of 100 km.MSL, and with his wife. He
> gave a 45 minute
>
> presentation to the Aircraft Owners and Pilots
> Association conference
>
> in Long Beach on Thursday, and got a
> several-minute standing ovation.
>
> I was able to speak with him for a short while
> after his talk.
>
>
> Since he was speaking to pilots, he didn't have to
> translate for the
>
> "general public" or pull many punches. He spent
> almost half of his
>
> time going over the flight controls and the entire
> cockpit layout
>
> inside of SpaceShipOne, explaining how it is
> flown. I think this is
>
> the first time this has been explained publicly in
> such detail, and it
>
> was amazing. There are actually four separate
> flight regimes, and
>
> each is flown differently. Just after launch, it
> flies like a piper
>
> cub, using a joystick and rudder pedals with
> mechanical linkages to
>
> the controls (no hydraulic assists). When it goes
> supersonic, the
>
> aerodynamic forces are too high to be able to move
> the stick, and the
>
> controls are subject to flutter. So they use an
> electrically powered
>
> trim system, flown using the "top hat" switch on
> the joystick and a
>
> couple of grips on the arm rest of the pilot's
> seat. (There are
>
> backup switches to the left of the instrument
> panel, which had to be
>
> used on one flight.) This moves the entire
> horizontal stabilizers,
>
> not just the elevons on the trailing edges.
> Eventually, they get high
>
> enough and the air gets thin enough that they can
> again use manual
>
> controls, although the response is totally
> different than lower down.
>
> But that goes away as they exit the atmosphere;
> the Reaction Control
>
> System nozzles are then used for maneuvering in
> space. Coming back
>
> down, the pilot has to reverse the sequence. There
> is no automated
>
> switchover of control systems; the pilot has to
> remember to move from
>
> one system to the next at the right times.
>
>
> The rudder pedals are not linked. Each controls
> one of the two
>
> vertical stabilizer rudders separately. You can
> push both rudder
>
> pedals at the same time, and get a fairly
> effective speed brake, with
>
> both rudders canted outward. Push both fully
> forward and they engage
>
> the wheel brakes. But these are not very effective
> and are only
>
> really useful for steering input during rollout.
> The real brake is on
>
> the nose skid: a piece of maple wood, with the
> grain aligned down the
>
> centerline of the airplane. He said it was the
> most effective braking
>
> material they could find.
>
>
> Stephen, we talked about G forces on Tuesday, and
> I got some of it
>
> wrong He says that he gets hit with about 3Gs
> kicking him backwards
>
> as soon as he lights the rocket motor. He's
> supersonic within about 9
>
> seconds later. But he immediately starts to pull
> up into an almost
>
> vertical climb. So he also gets over 4.3Gs
> pushing him down into his
>
> seat just from that maneuver. The combined force
> is "very stressful"
>
> and Mike says it's "important not to black out" at
> that point. He's
>
> going 1880 knots straight up within 70 seconds. On
> re-entry, the
>
> aircraft goes from being absolutely silent while
> in space to
>
> generating a deafening roar as it hits the
> atmosphere again. He's
>
> going about Mach 3.2 by that time, and has to
> survive about 5.5Gs for
>
> over 30 seconds, and lesser G forces for longer
> than that, as it slows
>
> back down. It sounds really intense, both as he
> explains it and on
>
> the radio.
>
>
> A couple of interesting side notes: SpaceShipOne
> has a standard
>
> "N" registration number; but it is licensed as an
> experimental "glider".
>
> Apparently there was a huge bureaucratic hassle
> trying to license it
>
> as a rocket powered spacecraft, which they just
> sidestepped by calling
>
> it a glider. I asked him if it had a yaw string;
> he laughed and said
>
> that would have burned off. By the way, the
> registration number is
>
> N328KF, where 328K is the number of Feet in 100km.
> (White Knight is
>
> N318SL - Burt Rutan's 318th design.)
>
>
> Mike says that the flight director system (called
> a TINU) was
>
> developed completely in-house by a couple of
> 28-year-old programmers,
>
> and is absolutely fantastic to fly. That's why
> they don't need a yaw
>
> string. But I had heard over the radio that Brian
> Binnie had
>
> re-booted the TINU just before the landing
> approach during the X2
>
> flight, and it took quite a while for it to come
> back up. So I asked
>
> Mike what that was about. He says that during
> re-entry, the TINU
>
> loses its GPS lock. So it keeps trying to go back
> to catch up,
>
> re-interpolate and compensate for the missing
> data, and this keeps it
>
> a little behind in its actual position
> calculations. The pilot has no
>
> straight-ahead vision at all, so they have a real
> issue landing: they
>
> can't see the runway! The way they do it is to fly
> directly down the
>
> runway at 9000 feet; then they do a (military
> style) break and fly a
>
> full 360 degree pattern right to the landing. The
> TINU gives the
>
> pilot a "blue line" to follow and a target
> airspeed (which produces a
>
> given rate of descent). If the pilot follows the
> blue line, right to
>
> the break point and through the two 180 degree
> turns, it will put him
>
> right onto the runway at what ever touchdown point
> he selects. But
>
> the TINU has to be absolutely current when this is
> going on. So at
>
> something above 15,000 feet they reboot the TINU
> and get it re-synched
>
> with the GPS satellites again before setting up
> for the landing!
>
>
> He also talked in detail about the rocket motor,
> and had photos of its
>
> insides after firing. The nozzle throat actually
> ablates as the motor
>
> burns, enlarging the interior throat diameter as
> the burn progresses.
>
> He described the problem they had on the June 21
> flight: The rocket
>
> motor nozzle was skewed by about =BD degree to one
> side. This generated
>
> a surprisingly high lateral torque trying to turn
> the aircraft. If it
>
> had been up or down pitch rather than lateral, the
> controls could have
>
> handled it; but the lateral yawing forces were too
> great for Mike to
>
> compensate as the atmosphere thinned. The result
> was that he was
>
> pretty far off course. Mike says he reached
> apogee, rolled the
>
> spacecraft over, and was surprised to see the
> Palmdale VOR directly
>
> beneath him. That was 30 miles away from Mojave
> and a long glide
>
> home. He says its amazing how fast a relatively
> small deviation can
>
> produce large distances when you're going Mach 3!
>
>
> For one of the static burn tests, they had fire
> and safety crews all
>
> standing a mile away, ready to duck if anything
> went wrong. In the
>
> middle of the test, Mike and Burt Rutan walked up
> to the front of the
>
> motor assembly and felt the pressure vessel that
> contains the N2O.
>
> Mike knew he was going to have this same thing
> strapped onto his back
>
> soon, anyway, and he wanted to know how much it
> vibrated, how hot it
>
> got, and how loud it was. It was deafening,
> literally. It turns out
>
> that, with the nozzles they use at high altitudes,
> it's actually not
>
> that noisy inside the spacecraft. But he still
> wears hearing
>
> protection.
>
>
> Scaled Composites seem to have fabricated quite a
> bit of the rocket
>
> motor themselves, including the N2O tank (which is
> also the structural
>
> core of the spacecraft) and the nozzle casings. It
> would be
>
> interesting to hear from Michael's friend exactly
> what parts SpaceDev
>
> designed and what they manufactured.
>
>
> I took lots more notes. Very interesting stuff.
>
>
> -- W. Thomas Wall
>
> wtwall(at)lightview.biz >
>
>
> 949-498-3305"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2004
From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Lessons learned
Howdy all. Thought I'd share my current excitement with everyone.
A couple weeks ago, I found a bit of "glitter" in the oil screen of my
right engine. Wasn't very much, just a few tiny flakes. Since both of
my engines are now right at 2000 hours, I decided to listen to what they
were telling me and made the call to overhaul.
Since funds are a bit tight right now, I opted to do as much of the
up-front labor as possible. I pulled both engines and did the teardown
and cleaning. I found exactly what I expected - two beautiful, clean
engines with no sign of distress at all, but one lifter beginning to
spall in each engine.
The reason I decided to pass this along is that the shop owner showed me
another engine he'd just completed tearing down for overhaul. The owner
had flown the engine about 200 hours past TBO as it was running great
and had only recently had a "few flecks of metal in the filter". When
the crank was inspected, the shop found that it was worn past service
limits. The mechanic showed it to me with the explaination that a
replacement crank was going to bump the overhaul cost by about $6000.
If the owner had pulled it AT TBO, it would have saved him a lot of money.
Other than possibly having to replace one cam, it looks like I got
lucky. I'm sure glad I didn't decide to ignore the quiet little signs -
it was VERY tempting as these were two of the sweetest running engines
I've ever flown behind. Great compressions, perfect oil pressure, etc.
It was time...
cheers all
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2004
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Lessons learned
G'day Chris,
Thanks for the "heads-up". Sobering thought for us all!
Cheers
Russell
---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:47:14 -0600
>From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
>Subject: Commander-List: Lessons learned
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
cschuerm(at)cox.net>
>
>Howdy all. Thought I'd share my current excitement with everyone.
>A couple weeks ago, I found a bit of "glitter" in the oil screen of my
>right engine. Wasn't very much, just a few tiny flakes. Since both of
>my engines are now right at 2000 hours, I decided to listen to what they
>were telling me and made the call to overhaul.
>Since funds are a bit tight right now, I opted to do as much of the
>up-front labor as possible. I pulled both engines and did the teardown
>and cleaning. I found exactly what I expected - two beautiful, clean
>engines with no sign of distress at all, but one lifter beginning to
>spall in each engine.
>The reason I decided to pass this along is that the shop owner showed me
>another engine he'd just completed tearing down for overhaul. The
owner
>had flown the engine about 200 hours past TBO as it was running great
>and had only recently had a "few flecks of metal in the filter". When
>the crank was inspected, the shop found that it was worn past service
>limits. The mechanic showed it to me with the explaination that a
>replacement crank was going to bump the overhaul cost by about $6000.
>If the owner had pulled it AT TBO, it would have saved him a lot of
money.
>Other than possibly having to replace one cam, it looks like I got
>lucky. I'm sure glad I didn't decide to ignore the quiet little signs -
>it was VERY tempting as these were two of the sweetest running engines
>I've ever flown behind. Great compressions, perfect oil pressure, etc.
> It was time...
>
>cheers all
>chris
>
>
========================
========================
========================
========================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Email address
Date: Dec 05, 2004
Hi Gang!
A short note to let you all know that as I've now retired (a few years early!),
the only email address to be used to contact me is:
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
Any reference to the "@airclaims.co.uk" or "@airclaims.com" addresses should be
deleted.
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
(UK CommanderLand Rep.)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 05, 2004
Subject: Re: Email address
In a message dated 12/5/2004 7:53:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
Hi Gang!
A short note to let you all know that as I've now retired (a few years
early!),
the only email address to be used to contact me is:
WOW!! CONGRATULATIONS!! YOU WILL LOVE IT!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Email address
Date: Dec 05, 2004
Barry,
CONGRATULATIONS!!! Enjoy retirement! I hope this means we get to see you
more often...
Cheers,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Commander-List: Email address
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Gang!
>
> A short note to let you all know that as I've now retired (a few years
early!),
> the only email address to be used to contact me is:
>
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
>
> Any reference to the "@airclaims.co.uk" or "@airclaims.com" addresses
should be
> deleted.
>
> Very Best Regards,
> Barry C.
> (UK CommanderLand Rep.)
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.939 (20041203) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.939 (20041203) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Need tech advice
Date: Dec 06, 2004
Fellow Commander Drivers,
On my 689F(p) we have the cabin sealed up real tight. By blocking off the outflow
valve manually the cabin will hold 3.0 PSI differential at 17,999 feet MSL
while running the supercharger. With the outflow valve not blocked off the maximum
pressure differential that we can get is about 2.1 or so. We are certain
that the problem is that the pressure is being released by the outflow valve.
Does anyone have experience to the point that you might suggest whether we should
first check the outflow valve its self or should we check the outflow valve
controller. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated as we are trying to
save some trouble shooting time on this project.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2004
Subject: Re: Need tech advice
In a message dated 06-Dec-04 08:32:46 Pacific Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
> Does anyone have experience to the point that you might suggest whether we
> should first check the outflow valve its self or should we check the outflow
> valve controller. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated as we are
> trying to save some trouble shooting time on this project.
>
Moe,
My brain is clouded with too many systems and components from too many
aircraft to give you a spot-on answer, but I'd check the outflow valve and
particularly the bellows and the over-pressure relief poppet, which may be popping
off
at too low a pressure.
Since those are easier to access and check, it's the trouble shooting path of
least resistance.
Does anyone on the list know where to get the cabin controller overhauled?
Because that's next on the list.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need tech advice
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)vegasfc.com>
Date: Dec 06, 2004
Moe:
We're fighting the same battle right now. Since our controller hasn't been cracked
open since 1964, we decided to quit playing with the cabin and valves until
we get it overhauled. Then we'll try to seal everthing up better.
When was your controller last serviced? Valves? The oldest component is at least
the dirtiest, if not the most out iof tolerance.
Brock Lorber
400CH
-----Original Message-----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:26:23
To:
Subject: Commander-List: Need tech advice
Fellow Commander Drivers,
On my 689F(p) we have the cabin sealed up real tight. By blocking off the outflow
valve manually the cabin will hold 3.0 PSI differential at 17,999 feet MSL
while running the supercharger. With the outflow valve not blocked off the maximum
pressure differential that we can get is about 2.1 or so. We are certain
that the problem is that the pressure is being released by the outflow valve.
Does anyone have experience to the point that you might suggest whether we should
first check the outflow valve its self or should we check the outflow valve
controller. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated as we are trying to
save some trouble shooting time on this project.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2004
Subject: Re: Need tech advice
In a message dated 12/6/2004 8:32:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
es anyone have experience to the point that you might suggest whether we
should first check the outflow valve its self or should we check the outflow valve
controller. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated as we are trying to
save some trouble shooting time on this project.
Moe. I hate to sound like a broken record and always point to the same guy,
but Morris Kernick (321-403-8813) probably has more experience with those than
just about anybody. Gary Krome, Commander Aero (937-885-5580) also deals
with them on a regular basis. Good luck. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2004
Subject: Re: Need tech advice
In a message dated 06-Dec-04 08:51:52 Pacific Standard Time,
blorber(at)vegasfc.com writes:
> We're fighting the same battle right now. Since our controller hasn't been
> cracked open since 1964, we decided to quit playing with the cabin and
> valves until we get it overhauled. Then we'll try to seal everthing up better.
>
Brock,
Where are you sending your cabin controller for over haul?
Wing Commander Gordon.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2004
Subject: Cabin Controller Overhaul
I have a biz card from years ago when I was teaching the -FP series. It's
from Jet Service Enterprises, Inc., in Bethany, Oklahoma. My hand written=20note
on their biz card says "O'haul Barber-Kollsman units." That's the
temperature controller for the -FP series -- and if they do that, they probably
do the
cabin pressure controller as well.
Don't know if they're still even in business, but the phone number is
405-787-1545.
If anyone has any other resources for Brock and Moe -- and the other 680 FP
series operators, let's hear it!
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need tech advice
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)vegasfc.com>
Date: Dec 06, 2004
I knew you were going to ask. Unfortunately, I'm on the road and don't have my
notes with me. I'll answer the question when I get back home.
Brock
-----Original Message-----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:50:46
To:commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Need tech advice
In a message dated 06-Dec-04 08:51:52 Pacific Standard Time,
blorber(at)vegasfc.com writes:
> We're fighting the same battle right now. Since our controller hasn't been
> cracked open since 1964, we decided to quit playing with the cabin and
> valves until we get it overhauled. Then we'll try to seal everthing up better.
>
Brock,
Where are you sending your cabin controller for over haul?
Wing Commander Gordon.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 09, 2004
Subject: Fwd: FW: save the aero-commander 520
Subject: FW: save the aero-commander 520
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:27:24 -0800
From: "Jeff Cousins" <jcousins(at)twincommander.com>
(JJim:(B
(JSounds like this one has already left the realm of flight.(B
(JJeff Cousins(B
(J-----Original Message-----(B
(JFrom: Geoffrey Pence (B
(JSent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:41 AM(B
(JTo: Jeff Cousins(B
(JSubject: RE: save the aero-commander 520(B
(JThe aircraft referenced is S/N 520-1(B
(JDelivered to Asshi Shimbum Press August 21, 1952(B
(JThe last I heard it was on static display in Japan(B
(J-----Original Message-----(B
(JFrom: Jeff Cousins (B
(JSent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:31 AM(B
(JTo: Ted Finck; Pierre Debruge; Geoffrey Pence; Jim Metzger (yourtcfg(at)aol.com)(B
(JSubject: FW: save the aero-commander 520(B
(JFYI. If anyone knows of someone interested in a 520??????(B
(JJeff Cousins(B
(J-----Original Message-----(B
(JFrom: TASM [mailto:tasm(at)npotown.net] (B
(JSent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:43 PM(B
(JTo: Jeff Cousins(B
(JSubject: save the aero-commander 520(B
(J From Takamasa koda(B
(J Dear sir,(B
(J We are worried about the most rare airplane that was made after the(B
(J WW-2(B
(J named AERO COMMANDER 520.(B
(J I've heard of this airplane is the first product AERO COMMANDER.(B
(J The owner wants to know how to disposal the plane.(B
(J It will be destroyed after shortly this month.(B
(J No one wants to help this airplane in Japan.(B
(J So, Please serarch quickly someone who can preserve this historic airplane.(B
(J Owner's URL:http://www.pref.okayama.jp/doboku/kounan/top.html(B
(J Phone$B!'(J086-262-0954(B
(J Fax : 086-262-5220(B
(J Address$B!'(JKounan airport(B
(J 639-1(B
(J Urayasu minami-cho(B
(J Okayama$B!>(Jshi 702-8024(B
(J c/o Kounan airport(B
(J Okayama pref.(B
(J JAPAN(B
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tommy Mathieu" <tmathieu(at)msn.com>
Subject: Questions concerning painting & interior refurbishment
Date: Dec 10, 2004
0.44 FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS Outlook can't send HTML in this format
This is my first post. I just purchased a 500 S a few months ago and I
am contemplating a paint and interior job. Does anyone know what kind of
cost I will probably run into and does anyone have any suggestions on
firms with an excellent track record.
Thanks,
Tommy Mathieu
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tommy Mathieu" <tmathieu(at)msn.com>
Subject: Questions concerning painting & interior refurbishment
Date: Dec 10, 2004
0.44 FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS Outlook can't send HTML in this format
This is my first post. I just purchased a 500 S a few months ago and I
am contemplating a paint and interior job. Does anyone know what kind of
cost I will probably run into and does anyone have any suggestions on
firms with an excellent track record.
Thanks,
Tommy Mathieu
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Save the Aero Commander 520
Date: Dec 10, 2004
Hi guys,
For me, it will be a very sad day if we lose the very first production Aero
Commander.
The prototype (L-3805) has already been saved, being on exhibition in the
Oklahoma City State Fairgrounds. My understanding is that when funds are
available, it will be taken down from the pole it is sitting atop, and work
undertaken to refurbish it for the benefit of future generations.
Model 520, serial number 1, N4100B was rolled out on August 24th 1951 and made
its first flight on August 27th.
It was later sold to the giant Asahi-Shimbun Newspaper Company in Tokyo, Japan
and the registration mark JA5001 was the first one issued in the new
twin-engined piston aircraft series. They named it 'Hatsukaze', meaning 'First
Wind'. After passing through two further owners, it was placed on permanent
display on roof-top museum at Okayama Airport in September 1963.
So, the question is, do we allow this aircraft to be scrapped?
If not, what can be done to save it?
Of course, the cost involved is probably like 'how long is a bit of string' at
the moment, but if anyone has any ideas from previous experience, let us know.
Could the Flight Group participate, along with, say, the City of Oklahoma, the
Service Centers?
It seems we need to move fairly quickly, so if anybody has a bright idea, let us
know!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: FW: save the aero-commander 520
Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: FW: save the aero-commander 520
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:27:24 -0800
From: "Jeff Cousins" <jcousins(at)twincommander.com>
Jim:
Sounds like this one has already left the realm of flight.
Jeff Cousins
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Pence
Subject: RE: save the aero-commander 520
The aircraft referenced is S/N 520-1
Delivered to Asshi Shimbum Press August 21, 1952
The last I heard it was on static display in Japan.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Cousins
Subject: FW: save the aero-commander 520
FYI. If anyone knows of someone interested in a 520??????
Jeff Cousins
-----Original Message-----
From: TASM [mailto:tasm(at)npotown.net]
Subject: save the aero-commander 520
From Takamasa koda
Dear sir,
We are worried about the most rare airplane that was made after the WW-2 named
AERO COMMANDER 520.
I've heard of this airplane is the first product AERO COMMANDER.
The owner wants to know how to disposal the plane.
It will be destroyed after shortly this month.
No one wants to help this airplane in Japan.
So, Please serarch quickly someone who can preserve this historic airplane.
Owner's URL:http://www.pref.okayama.jp/doboku/kounan/top.html
Phone: 086-262-0954
Fax : 086-262-5220
Address: Kounan airport
639-1 Urayasu minami-cho
Okayama shi 702-8024
c/o Kounan airport
Okayama pref.
JAPAN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Rodriguez Colom" <jamesrodriguez(at)bppr.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2004
Subject: Questions concerning painting & interior refurbishment
Tommy,
Welcome. Check schemedesigners.com for recommended paint shops.
Jimmy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy
Mathieu
Subject: Commander-List: Questions concerning painting & interior
refurbishment
This is my first post. I just purchased a 500 S a few months ago and I
am contemplating a paint and interior job. Does anyone know what kind of
cost I will probably run into and does anyone have any suggestions on
firms with an excellent track record.
Thanks,
Tommy Mathieu
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This communication and any attachments hereto contain information
that may be privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
applicable law. The information is intended solely for the use of the individual
or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient
or the employee or agent entrusted with the responsibility of delivering the message
to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying or distribution
of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error please delete or destroy all copies and notify the sender
immediately. In addition, although precautions have been taken to ensure
that the data included herein is free from viruses or other malicious content,
we cannot assure that such is indeed the case and disclaim any responsibility
attributable thereto.
AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Este documento, y cualquier anejo incluido, contienen
informacin que podra considerarse privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgacin
bajo las leyes aplicables. La informacin es para el uso exclusivo del
individuo o entidad a quien est dirigida. Si usted no es el destinatario, el
empleado o el agente a quien se le confi la responsabilidad de hacer llegar
el mensaje al destinatario, debe percatarse que la divulgacin, copia o distribucin
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por error, favor de borrarla o destruir todas las copias y notificar al
remitente inmediatamente. Adems, aunque se hayan tomado precauciones para asegurar
que los datos que aqu se incluyen estn libre de virus u otro contenido
malintencionado, no podemos asegurar que as sea y, por lo tanto, no nos hacemos
responsables de cualquier dao atribuible al caso.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Boelte" <n55bz@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Questions concerning painting & interior refurbishment
Date: Dec 10, 2004
Gray's Aircraft Refinishing in Ozark AR repainted a 500B for me in 1997.
The result was Outstanding! They charged $11,700 to strip and paint and
replace all of the steel screws and camlocs with stainless and to
replace all of the control surface bearings in addition to the painting.
Last year Gray's painted two C-180's for me. The result was also
Outstanding. They charged $8,600 each.
An interior shop in Morrilton, AR did the interiors on the two C-180's
(I am embarrassed to say that I can't remember the name of the shop) in
leather. The result is beautiful. There were no problems, it was a slick
job. They coordinated moving the airplanes to Gray's for the painting
and then back to Morrilton for the interiors. They charged $8,500 each.
They are the only shop in Morrilton- they are at Pettit Jean airport.
Hope that helps.
Kindest regards,
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy
Mathieu
Subject: Commander-List: Questions concerning painting & interior
refurbishment
This is my first post. I just purchased a 500 S a few months ago and I
am contemplating a paint and interior job. Does anyone know what kind of
cost I will probably run into and does anyone have any suggestions on
firms with an excellent track record.
Thanks,
Tommy Mathieu
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Questions concerning painting & interior refurbishment
Date: Dec 10, 2004
Tommy,
My 500B will be finished TODAY, at Hangar One in Malden, MO (573)276-1400.
Mike, the owner, charged me $22,500 for strip & paint (with stripes), and an
entirely new grey leather interior, with accents to pick up the outside
stripes. Mike is accustomed to working on Gulfstream-level bizjets, so his
standards seem very high.
My airplane was in dire condition and was probably a challenge to work on.
Needless to say, the digital pictures I've seen so far are beautiful. Not to
mention, he knows some Commander people and seems to have a soft spot for
us--he should give you a pretty good deal.
Cheers,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Mathieu" <tmathieu(at)msn.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Questions concerning painting & interior
refurbishment
>
> This is my first post. I just purchased a 500 S a few months ago and I
> am contemplating a paint and interior job. Does anyone know what kind of
> cost I will probably run into and does anyone have any suggestions on
> firms with an excellent track record.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tommy Mathieu
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.943 (20041208) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.943 (20041208) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2004
From: Derek Monk <britmonk(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Save the Aero Commander 520
It will be great if 520-1 ends up in its birthplace Oklahoma City where
I worked in the Bethany Aero Commander plant (Gulfstream by then) for
nine years.
If someone will coordinate the activity to acquire it for posterity, I
will be pleased to contribute.
Derek Monk
Barry Collman wrote:
>
>Hi guys,
>
>For me, it will be a very sad day if we lose the very first production Aero
>Commander.
>
>The prototype (L-3805) has already been saved, being on exhibition in the
>Oklahoma City State Fairgrounds. My understanding is that when funds are
>available, it will be taken down from the pole it is sitting atop, and work
>undertaken to refurbish it for the benefit of future generations.
>
>Model 520, serial number 1, N4100B was rolled out on August 24th 1951 and made
>its first flight on August 27th.
>It was later sold to the giant Asahi-Shimbun Newspaper Company in Tokyo, Japan
>and the registration mark JA5001 was the first one issued in the new
>twin-engined piston aircraft series. They named it 'Hatsukaze', meaning 'First
>Wind'. After passing through two further owners, it was placed on permanent
>display on roof-top museum at Okayama Airport in September 1963.
>
>So, the question is, do we allow this aircraft to be scrapped?
>
>If not, what can be done to save it?
>
>Of course, the cost involved is probably like 'how long is a bit of string' at
>the moment, but if anyone has any ideas from previous experience, let us know.
>
>Could the Flight Group participate, along with, say, the City of Oklahoma, the
>Service Centers?
>
>It seems we need to move fairly quickly, so if anybody has a bright idea, let
us
>know!
>
>Very Best Regards,
>Barry
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: FW: save the aero-commander 520
>
>Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>Subject: FW: save the aero-commander 520
>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:27:24 -0800
>From: "Jeff Cousins" <jcousins(at)twincommander.com>
>To: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
>
>Jim:
>
>Sounds like this one has already left the realm of flight.
>
>Jeff Cousins
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Geoffrey Pence
>To: Jeff Cousins
>Subject: RE: save the aero-commander 520
>
>The aircraft referenced is S/N 520-1
>Delivered to Asshi Shimbum Press August 21, 1952
>The last I heard it was on static display in Japan.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff Cousins
>To: Ted Finck; Pierre Debruge; Geoffrey Pence; Jim Metzger (yourtcfg(at)aol.com)
>Subject: FW: save the aero-commander 520
>
>FYI. If anyone knows of someone interested in a 520??????
>
>Jeff Cousins
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TASM [mailto:tasm(at)npotown.net]
>To: Jeff Cousins
>Subject: save the aero-commander 520
>
>>From Takamasa koda
>Dear sir,
>We are worried about the most rare airplane that was made after the WW-2 named
>AERO COMMANDER 520.
>I've heard of this airplane is the first product AERO COMMANDER.
>The owner wants to know how to disposal the plane.
>It will be destroyed after shortly this month.
>No one wants to help this airplane in Japan.
>So, Please serarch quickly someone who can preserve this historic airplane.
>
>Owner's URL:http://www.pref.okayama.jp/doboku/kounan/top.html
>Phone: 086-262-0954
>Fax : 086-262-5220
>Address: Kounan airport
>639-1 Urayasu minami-cho
>Okayama shi 702-8024
>c/o Kounan airport
>Okayama pref.
>JAPAN
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2004
From: Ukadamwest09(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Questions concerning painting & interior refurbishment
I second that.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Homeward Bound
Date: Dec 11, 2004
From: "John McNulty" <JMcNulty(at)socalpizza.com>
Not Commander related, but appropriate nonetheless.... John
http://www.clermontyellow.accountsupport.com/flash/UntilThen.swf
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Homeward Bound
Date: Dec 11, 2004
Thanks, John. They definitely need to be remembered this Holiday Season.
God Bless, Don
> [Original Message]
> From: John McNulty <JMcNulty(at)socalpizza.com>
> To:
> Date: 12/11/2004 9:25:52 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: Homeward Bound
>
>
> Not Commander related, but appropriate nonetheless.... John
>
>
> http://www.clermontyellow.accountsupport.com/flash/UntilThen.swf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
"carol haskins" , "CLOUDCRAFT" ,
"commander-list" ,
"DAN BRUHL" ,
"diane yoder" ,
"fbailey" ,
"FEDERICO M VELEZ" ,
"George Chevaillier" ,
"ISSAC MANNING" ,
"Jay Decker" , "JOANN CHEVAILLIER" ,
"JODY MASTIN" , "JOE PACE" ,
"john chambers" , "MOE MILLS" ,
"SCOTT PARKER" ,
"STEVE NORRIS" ,
"Thrasher, Cindy" ,
"TROY WELCH" ,
"W. Kent Riley"
Subject: Fw: HOLIDAY SEASON]
Date: Dec 13, 2004
Message
----- Original Message -----
From: Laurin Chevaillier<mailto:laurin.chevaillier(at)fwafa.org>
Subject: FW: HOLIDAY SEASON]
-----Original Message-----
From: Cheryl Caruso
Subject: FW: HOLIDAY SEASON]
Holiday Season
As we enter the holiday season, I think it's important for everyone to step
back and remember that we can all have fun without getting dangerous. I've
attached a rather graphic picture of an overdose victim, not for its shock value,
but in the hope that everyone remains aware of his or her limits.
When you look at this picture, remember that this did not have to happen
...
Happy Holidays!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 13, 2004
Subject: Fwd: Commander 560 for sale
by mail.sproutsoftware.com (Sprout Mailserver v2.8) with ASMTP id HRA74611
From: "Daniel Stewart" <dstewart(at)quantumparametrics.com>
Subject: Commander 560 for sale
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:13:59 -0800
Hello,
I have a 54' Commander 560 (sn 186) I would like to sell. Can you
recommend a good place to list it?
Thanks,
Daniel Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Commander 560 for sale
Date: Dec 13, 2004
Danial,
How much do you want for it? What kind of condition?
Regards,
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: Commander 560 for sale
>
>
> by mail.sproutsoftware.com (Sprout Mailserver v2.8) with ASMTP id
HRA74611
> From: "Daniel Stewart" <dstewart(at)quantumparametrics.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander 560 for sale
> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:13:59 -0800
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a 54' Commander 560 (sn 186) I would like to sell. Can you
> recommend a good place to list it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel Stewart
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2004
Subject: Commander 500
From: Curtis Perry <cperry(at)subictel.com>
We are a school located in the Philippines and looking for an aircraft
for use by the school administration to travel between the several
campus locations on different islands. We are considering a Commander
500. It is our understanding this is the only Commander model that can
accept a MoGas STC which is a requirement as AvGas is not available at
all but one of our locations. Are we correct the 500 is the only model
that can use the MoGas STC?
Curt Perry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2004
From: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Commander 500
Curt,
Can't speak for the 500, but the 500A ( IO-470M) has engines certified on
90 octane, making them a good prospect for mogas STCs with super unleaded,
or in some parts of the
world, just unleaded at 91 octane.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 10:32 14/12/2004, you wrote:
>
>We are a school located in the Philippines and looking for an aircraft
>for use by the school administration to travel between the several
>campus locations on different islands. We are considering a Commander
>500. It is our understanding this is the only Commander model that can
>accept a MoGas STC which is a requirement as AvGas is not available at
>all but one of our locations. Are we correct the 500 is the only model
>that can use the MoGas STC?
>
>Curt Perry
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Services
and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2004
From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander 500
Curtis Perry wrote:
> It is our understanding this is the only Commander model that can
> accept a MoGas STC
Curtis,
You can find a list of all Commander STC's at:
http://www.aerocommander.com/Documents/stcs.html
I don't see any auto-fuel approvals for any of the Commander line
although that list may not have some of the latest additions.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 14, 2004
Subject: Re: Commander 500 - Automotive Fuel?
In a message dated 12/13/04 4:33:49 PM Mountain Standard Time,
cperry(at)subictel.com writes:
<< Are we correct the 500 is the only model that can use the MoGas STC? >>\
This subject was reasearched by the Twin Commander Flight Group in 1997. My
information dates back to that time.
Lycoming will not allow any of their engines (or at least engine series that
are powering Twin Commanders) to run on MoGas.
A surprising fact was not one I expected: Lycoming does not like the chlorine
content of MoGas and this is one of the main reasons they disallow their
engines to operate on it.
As Bill and Chris indicated, if Teledyne Continental will allow MoGas in the
IO-470, the Commander 500A could be a candidate, but I doubt that an engine ot
that power output is going to be found running on MoGas.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2004
Subject: Re: Commander 500 - Automotive Fuel?
From: Curtis Perry <cperry(at)subictel.com>
The following came from the Peterson Aviation Inc.,
984 K Road
Minden, Nebraska 68959
phone 308/832-2050
fax 308/832-2311
It shows the Lycoming engines approved for their STC. The O 540 A2B is
listed as approved for the 91 Octane STC, which is the engine I thought
was in the Commander 500. I did check and Peterson said they've never
tested the Commander 500 air frame.
Curt Perry
ENGINES APPROVED FOR AUTO FUEL
An asterisk denotes 91 octane minimum.
All others are 87 octane minimum, with the exception of some
R-1830's.Lycoming:
0-145-B1, -B2, -B3, -C1, -C2, GO-145-C1, -C2,-C3, -A1, -A2 0-235-C,
-C1, -C1B, -E1, -E1B, -C1C, -C1A, -H2C, -C2A, -C2B, -E2A, -E2B, -L2A*,
-L2C*, -M1*, -M2C*, -M3C*, -N2A*, -N2C*, -P1*, -P2A*, -P2C*, -P3C*
0-290, -A, -AP, -B, (0-290-1), -C, (0-290-3),-CP, -D, (0-290-11), -D2,
-D2A, -D2B, -D2C 0-320, 0-320-A1A, -A1B, -A2A, -A2B, -A2C,-A2D, -A3A,
-A3B, -A3C, -B1A*, -B1B*, -B2A*,-B2B*, -B2C*, -B3A*, -B3B*, -B3C*,
-C1A, -C1B, -C2A, -C2B, -C2C, -C3A,-C3B, -C3C, -D1A*, -D1B*, -D1C*,
-D1D*, -D1F*, -D2A*, -D2B*, -D2C*, -D2F*, -D2G*, -D2H*, -D2J*, -D3G*,
-E1A, -E1B,- E1C, -E1F, -E2A, -E2B, -E2C, -E2D, -E2F, -E2G,-E2H, -E3D,
-E3H,-E1J.
0-360-B1A, -B1B, -B2A, -B2B, -D1A, -D2A,-D2B, -A1A*, -A1AD*,
-A1D*,-A1F*,-A1F6*, -A1F6D*, A1H6*, -A1G*,-A1G6*, -A1G6D*, -A1H*,
-A1LD*, -A2A*, -A2D*, -A2E*, -A2F*, -A2G*, -A2H*,-A3A*, -A4D*,-A4N*,
-A3AD*, -A3D*,-A4A*, -A4AD*, -A4G*, -A4J*, -A4K*, -A4M*, -A5AD*, -C1A*,
-C1C*, -C1F*, -C1G*, -C2A*, -C2C*, -C1E*, -C2E*, -F1A6*, -G1A6*, -J2A*,
H0-360-C1A*
0-435, 0-435-A, 0-435-C (0-435-1),0-435-C1,(0-435-11), 0-435-C2
(0-435-13)
0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*,
-A1A5*, -A1B5*,
-A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*,
-D1A5*,
-E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*,
-H2A5D*, -H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*
On Tuesday, December 14, 2004, at 01:58 PM, CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/13/04 4:33:49 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> cperry(at)subictel.com writes:
>
> << Are we correct the 500 is the only model that can use the MoGas
> STC? >>\
>
> This subject was reasearched by the Twin Commander Flight Group in
> 1997. My
> information dates back to that time.
>
> Lycoming will not allow any of their engines (or at least engine
> series that
> are powering Twin Commanders) to run on MoGas.
>
> A surprising fact was not one I expected: Lycoming does not like the
> chlorine
> content of MoGas and this is one of the main reasons they disallow
> their
> engines to operate on it.
>
> As Bill and Chris indicated, if Teledyne Continental will allow MoGas
> in the
> IO-470, the Commander 500A could be a candidate, but I doubt that an
> engine ot
> that power output is going to be found running on MoGas.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2004
From: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Commander 500 - Automotive Fuel?
Folks,
MOGAS STCs in general.
All of the MOGAS STCs for US built engines I have ever dealt with have been
established by individuals or companies as a commercial venture, as far as
I recall both TCM and Lycoming claim MOGAS as a nono.
The ASTM specifications for what constitutes avgas are relatively flexible,
in at least one instance of which I am aware, the 100LL (meets ASTM specs.
for 100/130) is from a refinery that produces "Premium unleaded", and a
very small amount of tetraethyl lead is added, about 10% of a typical lead
load in 100LL from many older refineries. In short, about the only problem
in running many older TCM engines (certified on 80/87) on this kind of
premium unleaded is potential exhaust seat/valve problems. It would seem
this is a "potential problem", the many mogas STCs experience has not
produced the valve seat problems experienced in old motor car engines..
Selling older aircraft in Australia, having a mogas STC is a VERY big
selling point, and it is availability, not price, which is the driver.
One of the reasons for the 500A is I hope to eventually visit a few places
around the Pacific Rim where supplied of avgas are nil. Hence the need to
run on mogas in some remote places, where you can't even have drum stock
positioned in advance, at any price.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 16:58 14/12/2004, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 12/13/04 4:33:49 PM Mountain Standard Time,
>cperry(at)subictel.com writes:
>
><< Are we correct the 500 is the only model that can use the MoGas STC? >>\
>
>This subject was reasearched by the Twin Commander Flight Group in 1997. My
>information dates back to that time.
>
>Lycoming will not allow any of their engines (or at least engine series that
>are powering Twin Commanders) to run on MoGas.
>
>A surprising fact was not one I expected: Lycoming does not like the chlorine
>content of MoGas and this is one of the main reasons they disallow their
>engines to operate on it.
>
>As Bill and Chris indicated, if Teledyne Continental will allow MoGas in the
>IO-470, the Commander 500A could be a candidate, but I doubt that an
>engine ot
>that power output is going to be found running on MoGas.
>
>Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject:
Date: Dec 14, 2004
MOGAS Depending on how long the legs are, if you have a plane ( C310 or
Baron etc.)that has several tanks and a tank selector you can carry avgas in
one tank and mogas in the others. You take off and land on the avgas and
when you get to crz and have reduced power, switch to the mogas. However
that does not work in the Commander because all tanks are joined. I don't
know that I would want to make an every day thing of that though.
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: AVGAS and Twin Commanders
Date: Dec 14, 2004
I was looking at the www.eaa.org <http://www.eaa.org/> and their list of
STC for AVGAS. They stated that all of their STC are for only for engines
that run on 80/87 AVGAS.
On www.gami.com <http://www.gami.com/> (the injector people) you will find
that they are working on an ignition system that reads the pressure inside
of the cylinders and adjusts the timing to eliminate detonation. This would
allow the engine to run on lower octane fuel. I have seen it work in a
prototype stage. Someone may want to call them and see how the STC process
is gong.
TEL or lead does two things in aviation engines. The first is to stop
detonation. The second is it lubricated the valves and seats. Lubrication
can be solved with additives in the gas. The first is part of the fuel or
the ignition system.
I recently got a report of the committee that is working on the unleaded
AVGAS problem. They are trying all kinds of different formulas to come up
with a fuel that will work in aviation engines without modification of the
engine. There is no solution in site yet.
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject:
Date: Dec 15, 2004
a twin commander crashed in mexico north of monterey, plane was total loss and
five died. anyone here why? mason
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re:
Date: Dec 15, 2004
I saw a report on this, from The Associated Press. It was en route to Texas
"when it went down for reasons that were not immediately clear".
Later on, I'll see whether a web-search on newspapers in the Monterrey area
carry any further reports.
Barry C
(UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Commander-List:
|
| a twin commander crashed in mexico north of monterey, plane was total loss
and five died. anyone here why? mason
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: AVGAS and Twin Commanders
Date: Dec 15, 2004
Fellow Commander Drivers,
Anyone who is considering the use of automobile gas should keep in mind that
car gas now gets stale pretty quick, and av gas does not. Many of us who
ride our motorcycles seldom (like my wife) or have power generators which
operate infrequently have found that we must drain the old gas and put in
new gas just to get the engine started. This problem has become so great
for my business partners old car collection, that I recently picked up a
drum of 100LL at the airport for him.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Commander-List: AVGAS and Twin Commanders
>
> I was looking at the www.eaa.org <http://www.eaa.org/> and their list of
> STC for AVGAS. They stated that all of their STC are for only for engines
> that run on 80/87 AVGAS.
>
> On www.gami.com <http://www.gami.com/> (the injector people) you will
find
> that they are working on an ignition system that reads the pressure inside
> of the cylinders and adjusts the timing to eliminate detonation. This
would
> allow the engine to run on lower octane fuel. I have seen it work in a
> prototype stage. Someone may want to call them and see how the STC
process
> is gong.
>
> TEL or lead does two things in aviation engines. The first is to stop
> detonation. The second is it lubricated the valves and seats. Lubrication
> can be solved with additives in the gas. The first is part of the fuel or
> the ignition system.
>
> I recently got a report of the committee that is working on the unleaded
> AVGAS problem. They are trying all kinds of different formulas to come up
> with a fuel that will work in aviation engines without modification of the
> engine. There is no solution in site yet.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject:
Date: Dec 15, 2004
Some brands of auto gas may contain alcohol that can cause a lot of damage
to hoses and seals.
Jim A
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2004
Subject: Three bladed props for 500
From: Curtis Perry <cperry(at)subictel.com>
I think I see in the photo gallery pictures of Twin Commander 500s with
three bladed props. I've contacted both Hartzell and MaCauley and both
have said they don't have a three bladed prop for the O 540 A2B engines
on the 500. Can anyone tell me if there is a three bladed conversion
which has been used?
Curtis Perry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Three bladed props for 500
Date: Dec 16, 2004
Hi Curtis,
Any Commander "500" with a three-blade prop is undoubtedly not a straight Model
500.
It could be, but as far as I know there are only a few which have had
three-blade props installed, as a modification:
s/n 618 had Hartzell HC-A3VK-2B/V7636D-4 props and Kensair Corporation, of
Broomfield, Colorado, evidently gained STC number SA1547WE for such a
modification.
s/n 639 also had Hartzell HC-A3VK-2B/V7636D props and Riley Aeronautics
subsequently gained STC number SA257CE for such a modification.
s/n 740 also had Hartzell HC-A3VK-2B/V7636D props under STC number SA1735SO.
There are also several other Models in the "500" range, namely the 500A, 500B,
500U and 500S.
The 500A normally has 2-blade props, but with the Colemill "Super 300"
modification, three-blade props are installed on Continental IO-520-E engines,
which replace the standard Continental IO-470-M engines.
The other three Models all use Lycoming IO-540 series engines
(-B1A5, -B1C5, -E1A5, or -E1B5) with 3-blade props.
The straight 500 Model has the deep "Bathtub" nacelles, whereas the others have
the "Speedline" nacelles, which are a lot slimmer in profile.
There is not much to choose between the 500B, 500U and 500S performance-wise,
but the last two were Certificated in both the Standard & Utility categories
CofA.
Hope this helps!
Barry Collman
UK "CommanderLand" Rep.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Perry" <cperry(at)subictel.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Three bladed props for 500
|
| I think I see in the photo gallery pictures of Twin Commander 500s with
| three bladed props. I've contacted both Hartzell and MaCauley and both
| have said they don't have a three bladed prop for the O 540 A2B engines
| on the 500. Can anyone tell me if there is a three bladed conversion
| which has been used?
|
| Curtis Perry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Coons" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net>
Subject: Mogas in the 500
Date: Dec 16, 2004
Listers,
Hello this past week there has been great debate regarding the pros and cons
about flying mogas in the straight 500. Kindly, refer to
www.aerocommander.com and review the model specific information which Dan
Dominguez and Chris Wall crafted from Aero Commander aircraft flight manuals
and Pilot Handbooks. The fuel octane states 91/96 while other 500 series
aircraft require 100/130 octane fuel. I hope this helps.
Kevin Coons
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Three bladed props for 500
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Curtis,
Any Commander "500" with a three-blade prop is undoubtedly not a straight
Model
500.
It could be, but as far as I know there are only a few which have had
three-blade props installed, as a modification:
s/n 618 had Hartzell HC-A3VK-2B/V7636D-4 props and Kensair Corporation, of
Broomfield, Colorado, evidently gained STC number SA1547WE for such a
modification.
s/n 639 also had Hartzell HC-A3VK-2B/V7636D props and Riley Aeronautics
subsequently gained STC number SA257CE for such a modification.
s/n 740 also had Hartzell HC-A3VK-2B/V7636D props under STC number
SA1735SO.
There are also several other Models in the "500" range, namely the 500A,
500B,
500U and 500S.
The 500A normally has 2-blade props, but with the Colemill "Super 300"
modification, three-blade props are installed on Continental IO-520-E
engines,
which replace the standard Continental IO-470-M engines.
The other three Models all use Lycoming IO-540 series engines
(-B1A5, -B1C5, -E1A5, or -E1B5) with 3-blade props.
The straight 500 Model has the deep "Bathtub" nacelles, whereas the others
have
the "Speedline" nacelles, which are a lot slimmer in profile.
There is not much to choose between the 500B, 500U and 500S
performance-wise,
but the last two were Certificated in both the Standard & Utility categories
CofA.
Hope this helps!
Barry Collman
UK "CommanderLand" Rep.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Perry" <cperry(at)subictel.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Three bladed props for 500
|
| I think I see in the photo gallery pictures of Twin Commander 500s with
| three bladed props. I've contacted both Hartzell and MaCauley and both
| have said they don't have a three bladed prop for the O 540 A2B engines
| on the 500. Can anyone tell me if there is a three bladed conversion
| which has been used?
|
| Curtis Perry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 16, 2004
Subject: Re: Three bladed props for 500
I remember Gary Gadberry of Air Center doing one of his "Shrike Conversions"
on an AC-500.
He showed a slide at the Nashville Twin Commander meeting back in 1997 or so
and I had trouble identifying the airplane due to the Shrike nose, winglettes,
square rudder cap, 3 blade prop .... and bathtub nacelles
I could be mistaken, but I do think this was the case. Give Gary Gadberry a
call.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.