Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bp
June 17, 2005 - July 19, 2005
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Prototype Commander - The L-3805 |
It would be nice to have it scanned or photographed so we all could have a
look at it.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prototype Commander - The L-3805 |
Hi Bert,
I'm anticipating that there will be a lot of paperwork which most will find
pretty mundane. Rest assured, all the 'meaty' stuff will be extracted and
published in 'The Book'. That is, of course, provided we are permitted access to
it.
Barry C. (UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prototype Commander - The L-3805
|
| It would be nice to have it scanned or photographed so we all could have a
| look at it.
|
| Bert
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Just my luck! In the past I have been 1/2 of the Commanders at Oshkosh,
this year everyone goes, and I can't.
Moe
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
> Last time I was there (3 years ago), there were only two Commanders in
> attendence. Looking forward to seeing you on Wednesday.
>
> Randy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> alh1(at)juno.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> randy, i am usually one of the few commanders at oshkosh and i have been
the
> only one several years. i plan to arrive wednesday and stay until friday.
> if we get some paint touched up, we will get it judged. see you there. i
> am coming from florida lna but we have six on board. al hoffman n628ah.
>
> Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month!
> Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prototype Commander - The L-3805 |
If you had as many hungry lawyers trying to sue you as they do, you would
destroy all records the day it was legal also. In some industries (nukes
for instance) this is SOP right down to the day.
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prototype Commander - The L-3805
>
> In a message dated 17-Jun-05 05:35:00 Pacific Daylight Time,
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
> writes:
> While building my library, I contacted the Douglas Aircraft Company.
What I
> found was, even though our airplane was less than thirty years old, they
had
> dumped all records of the aircraft.
> >
> >
> This is tragic -- and exactly parallels what I was told by the Rockwell
> historian about 8 years ago when I was researching some Aero Commander
history.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long-life white LED replacements for #327 bulbs (Part |
Deux)
you bet call or e-mail me
Andy 3057788877
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jody Pillatzki" <Jpillatzki(at)702com.net> |
I will have 411VV there. I usually park in the north 40 but if there will be
others there I would love to park with you guys.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
Just my luck! In the past I have been 1/2 of the Commanders at Oshkosh,
this year everyone goes, and I can't.
Moe
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
> Last time I was there (3 years ago), there were only two Commanders in
> attendence. Looking forward to seeing you on Wednesday.
>
> Randy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> alh1(at)juno.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> randy, i am usually one of the few commanders at oshkosh and i have been
the
> only one several years. i plan to arrive wednesday and stay until friday.
> if we get some paint touched up, we will get it judged. see you there. i
> am coming from florida lna but we have six on board. al hoffman n628ah.
>
> Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month!
> Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Hi Jody,
Lets stay in touch. We'll try to arrange for an area where we can park
together.
Randy D.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jody
Pillatzki
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
I will have 411VV there. I usually park in the north 40 but if there will be
others there I would love to park with you guys.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
Just my luck! In the past I have been 1/2 of the Commanders at Oshkosh,
this year everyone goes, and I can't.
Moe
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
> Last time I was there (3 years ago), there were only two Commanders in
> attendence. Looking forward to seeing you on Wednesday.
>
> Randy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> alh1(at)juno.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> randy, i am usually one of the few commanders at oshkosh and i have been
the
> only one several years. i plan to arrive wednesday and stay until friday.
> if we get some paint touched up, we will get it judged. see you there. i
> am coming from florida lna but we have six on board. al hoffman n628ah.
>
> Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month!
> Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jody Pillatzki" <Jpillatzki(at)702com.net> |
I will be arriving on Sunday before it starts. Plenty of time to stock the
bar and stuff.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
Hi Jody,
Lets stay in touch. We'll try to arrange for an area where we can park
together.
Randy D.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jody
Pillatzki
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
I will have 411VV there. I usually park in the north 40 but if there will be
others there I would love to park with you guys.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
Just my luck! In the past I have been 1/2 of the Commanders at Oshkosh,
this year everyone goes, and I can't.
Moe
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
> Last time I was there (3 years ago), there were only two Commanders in
> attendence. Looking forward to seeing you on Wednesday.
>
> Randy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> alh1(at)juno.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> randy, i am usually one of the few commanders at oshkosh and i have been
the
> only one several years. i plan to arrive wednesday and stay until friday.
> if we get some paint touched up, we will get it judged. see you there. i
> am coming from florida lna but we have six on board. al hoffman n628ah.
>
> Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month!
> Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
We'll be arriving on Monday...see you there.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jody
Pillatzki
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
I will be arriving on Sunday before it starts. Plenty of time to stock the
bar and stuff.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
Hi Jody,
Lets stay in touch. We'll try to arrange for an area where we can park
together.
Randy D.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jody
Pillatzki
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
I will have 411VV there. I usually park in the north 40 but if there will be
others there I would love to park with you guys.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
Just my luck! In the past I have been 1/2 of the Commanders at Oshkosh,
this year everyone goes, and I can't.
Moe
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
> Last time I was there (3 years ago), there were only two Commanders in
> attendence. Looking forward to seeing you on Wednesday.
>
> Randy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> alh1(at)juno.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
>
> randy, i am usually one of the few commanders at oshkosh and i have been
the
> only one several years. i plan to arrive wednesday and stay until friday.
> if we get some paint touched up, we will get it judged. see you there. i
> am coming from florida lna but we have six on board. al hoffman n628ah.
>
> Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month!
> Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
Commanderland;
My son sent me a Father's Day card and included a decal sticker, suggesting I mount
it on my Commander. The sticker says, "MY OTHER VEHICLE IS A JOHN DEERE
TRACTOR". Now I rate John Deere's about even with Commanders, the best of the
best. But the question is WHERE DO I MOUNT THE DECAL?
Happy Father's Day to ALL!
Don
Lowell Girod
dongirod(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com |
matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Decal Sticker |
In a message dated 6/18/2005 6:58:15 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dongirod(at)earthlink.net writes:
WHERE DO I MOUNT THE DECAL?
I duno, but it is a great problem to have!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben(at)gmpexpress.net> |
If anyone is interested in a 500S, here is one going to auction:
http://www.gradyauctions.com/
I am not affiliated in any way I just happened to stumble upon it on Barnstormers.
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 500S auction |
In a message dated 6/19/2005 6:24:14 A.M. Central Standard Time,
ben(at)gmpexpress.net writes:
If anyone is interested in a 500S, here is one going to auction:
http://www.gradyauctions.com/
Good Afternoon Ben,
Your message piqued my interest. While looking around at a few Commanders,
I noted one Commander 700 that sounded interesting. I didn't even know such
an airplane existed.
Would the guys and gals on this list consider me to be a deserter if I
bought a low wing airplane?
Anybody know where to find out more information about one of these? I did
check the Type Certificate Data Sheets. The max gross weight seems
reasonable. Any idea what a typical empty weight would be?
What I need is information concerning speeds actually made good and physical
dimensions. There are maximum wing span considerations at my home drome.
Obviously, any big maintenance problems in addition to the relatively short
airframe life?
Any leads to more information would be appreciated.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Bob:
The Commander 700 was not a Tough Bird type Ted Smith Commander.
IIRC that plane was manufactured by Fuji Heavy Industries and imported and
marketed by Commander. It was a pressurized aircraft.
There may be a good reason why not many of them sold.
I'm certain there are people on this list more knowledgeable than I on this
subject.
___________________________
Deneal Schilmeister
St. Louis - Cincinnati
1997 SL500
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Good Afternoon Ben,
Your message piqued my interest. While looking around at a few Commanders,
I noted one Commander 700 that sounded interesting. I didn't even know
such
an airplane existed.
Would the guys and gals on this list consider me to be a deserter if I
bought a low wing airplane?
Anybody know where to find out more information about one of these? I did
check the Type Certificate Data Sheets. The max gross weight seems
reasonable. Any idea what a typical empty weight would be?
What I need is information concerning speeds actually made good and
physical
dimensions. There are maximum wing span considerations at my home drome.
Obviously, any big maintenance problems in addition to the relatively short
airframe life?
Any leads to more information would be appreciated.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 500S auction |
In my backyard (Vancouver, Canada) our local aerial firefighter company
(Conair) use the 700 and 690's as birddogs because they can keep up with the
tankers.
Tom F.
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500S auction
>
> Bob:
> The Commander 700 was not a Tough Bird type Ted Smith Commander.
>
> IIRC that plane was manufactured by Fuji Heavy Industries and imported and
> marketed by Commander. It was a pressurized aircraft.
>
> There may be a good reason why not many of them sold.
> I'm certain there are people on this list more knowledgeable than I on
this
> subject.
>
> ___________________________
> Deneal Schilmeister
> St. Louis - Cincinnati
> 1997 SL500
> http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>
>
> Good Afternoon Ben,
>
> Your message piqued my interest. While looking around at a few
Commanders,
>
> I noted one Commander 700 that sounded interesting. I didn't even know
> such
> an airplane existed.
>
> Would the guys and gals on this list consider me to be a deserter if I
> bought a low wing airplane?
>
> Anybody know where to find out more information about one of these? I
did
> check the Type Certificate Data Sheets. The max gross weight seems
> reasonable. Any idea what a typical empty weight would be?
>
> What I need is information concerning speeds actually made good and
> physical
> dimensions. There are maximum wing span considerations at my home drome.
>
> Obviously, any big maintenance problems in addition to the relatively
short
>
> airframe life?
>
> Any leads to more information would be appreciated.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Airpark LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8502
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 500S auction |
In a message dated 6/20/2005 9:53:11 A.M. Central Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
In my backyard (Vancouver, Canada) our local aerial firefighter company
(Conair) use the 700 and 690's as birddogs because they can keep up with the
tankers.
Good Morning Tom,
Would one of those be the one that is being offered for just over one
hundred grand? That has Canadian registry and is just over one thousand hours
away
from the airframe life limit.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 500S auction |
Speaking of airframe life-limits: What happens when an airframe reaches that
limit? Can it be rebuilt, ignoring that it might not be worth it? And if so,
what does it entail?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500S auction
>
>
> In a message dated 6/20/2005 9:53:11 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
>
> In my backyard (Vancouver, Canada) our local aerial firefighter company
> (Conair) use the 700 and 690's as birddogs because they can keep up with
the
> tankers.
>
>
> Good Morning Tom,
>
> Would one of those be the one that is being offered for just over one
> hundred grand? That has Canadian registry and is just over one thousand
hours away
> from the airframe life limit.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Airpark LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8502
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 500S auction |
In a message dated 6/20/2005 11:49:45 A.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Speaking of airframe life-limits: What happens when an airframe reaches that
limit? Can it be rebuilt, ignoring that it might not be worth it? And if so,
what does it entail?
Nico
Good Afternoon Nico
Generally speaking, if there are enough airplanes to make it worthwhile,
someone, occasionally the original manufacturer, but often others, will design
a
program, check or modification that will give life extensions. On low
production airframes, that is not a financially viable solution.
It appears that all of the Pressurized Barons will be grounded at fifteen
thousand hours and I'll bet a milk shake there will be no one offering a time
extension program for the Commander 700. With only thirty some airplanes
having been built, the market is too small.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 500S auction |
Nico,
The only official documentation about life limits I've seen for Commanders
is the Australian CAA document, that places the life limit on my 500B at
35,000 hours; it specifies that the when the life limit is reached, the
lower spar cap must be replaced, at which time the airplane is good for
another 35,000 hours. The document even mentions that no testing has been
done beyond that point. I think it'll be a while before someone owns an Aero
Commander with >70,000 hours TT.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500S auction
>
> Speaking of airframe life-limits: What happens when an airframe reaches
that
> limit? Can it be rebuilt, ignoring that it might not be worth it? And if
so,
> what does it entail?
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <BobsV35B(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500S auction
>
>
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/20/2005 9:53:11 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> > tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
> >
> > In my backyard (Vancouver, Canada) our local aerial firefighter company
> > (Conair) use the 700 and 690's as birddogs because they can keep up
with
> the
> > tankers.
> >
> >
> > Good Morning Tom,
> >
> > Would one of those be the one that is being offered for just over one
> > hundred grand? That has Canadian registry and is just over one thousand
> hours away
> > from the airframe life limit.
> >
> > Happy Skies,
> >
> > Old Bob
> > AKA
> > Bob Siegfried
> > Ancient Aviator
> > Stearman N3977A
> > Brookeridge Airpark LL22
> > Downers Grove, IL 60516
> > 630 985-8502
> >
> >
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1145 (20050618) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1145 (20050618) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 500S auction |
Did not see that, might be, I guess the parts on the airframe are still good
for $100,000. (CDN).
Tom F.
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500S auction
>
>
> In a message dated 6/20/2005 9:53:11 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
>
> In my backyard (Vancouver, Canada) our local aerial firefighter company
> (Conair) use the 700 and 690's as birddogs because they can keep up with
the
> tankers.
>
>
> Good Morning Tom,
>
> Would one of those be the one that is being offered for just over one
> hundred grand? That has Canadian registry and is just over one thousand
hours away
> from the airframe life limit.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Airpark LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8502
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prototype Commander - The L-3805 |
We even enjoy your goofs, Bob!
Rob
In a message dated 6/17/2005 9:27:25 AM Central Standard Time,
BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:
>
> Well guys, I goofed!!
>
> I meant to send that message only to Barry and George, but didn't get the
> address properly changed.
>
> Sorry about that!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA along the same lines many years
ago. The airport where I used to hang out for many years, Wonderboom, was
located directly north of the Waterkloof air force base whose terminal area was
south of Wonderboom and over the city of Pretoria. Civilian aircraft was rarely
allowed to fly over the city because of military activities there.
For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air traffic controller, Dirk Munnik,
in the tower at Wonderboom and he would interfere and lecture everybody about
everything, both in the tower and over the radio. It was a favorite pastime
for pilots to walk in on Dirk and ask him questions just to see him light up
and part with his superior intellect and knowledge, much to the amusement of
everyone. Newcomers to the airport were oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most
mundane and frivolous information, just to introduce them to this guy.
So, one day there were a number of people in the tower while he was showing off
correcting and reprimanding pilots, workers, and everyone who was within earshot,
the severity, volume and antics of which depended upon who was with him in
the tower and who would afford him the most bragging rights. A Cessna 310 called
in for landing instructions and the pilot smartly announced his position
as 'over the city of Pretoria.' Apparently Dirk's audience was the right fit,
as if he couldn't believe his luck that such a call would come while he has a
home crowd observing him in action. He started lecturing the pilot from a superior
height about the restricted area that he happens to be in, and a myriad
of other violations which Dirk now has the power to either report or forgive the
hapless pilot for this terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce was
when he instructed the Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after landing.
The real torture was about to occur when the pilot has to suffer Dirk's ire
in person.
It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While silence fell on everyone in anticipation
waiting to hear the poor pilot stumble and apologize, the response came:
"This is general so-and-so and I am the officer commanding northern command.
I own this airspace and I will fly whenever and where ever I please. I didn't
ask you to comment on my position but to provide me with landing instructions.
Do you understand that simple instruction or do you want me to explain it
to you in person when I get there?"
Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it was long overdue, but the humiliation
was brutal. We felt sorry for the guy for a moment or so and chuckled
over the incident for a long time afterwards. I just did it again.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio conversation between a US naval
ship and Canadian maritime contact of the coast of Newfoundland in October
1995.
Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees North to avoid a collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees South to avoid collision.
Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship; I say again divert your course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN
THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE
CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE
15 DEGREES NORTH, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE
UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.
Canadians: We are a lighthouse; your call.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I thought he was a big
@#!&!
:-)
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious
>
>
> That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA along the same lines
> many years ago. The airport where I used to hang out for many years,
> Wonderboom, was located directly north of the Waterkloof air force base
> whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and over the city of Pretoria.
> Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over the city because of
> military activities there.
>
> For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air traffic controller, Dirk
> Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would interfere and lecture
> everybody about everything, both in the tower and over the radio. It was a
> favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and ask him questions just
> to see him light up and part with his superior intellect and knowledge,
> much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to the airport were
> oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane and frivolous
> information, just to introduce them to this guy.
>
> So, one day there were a number of people in the tower while he was
> showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots, workers, and everyone who
> was within earshot, the severity, volume and antics of which depended upon
> who was with him in the tower and who would afford him the most bragging
> rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing instructions and the pilot
> smartly announced his position as 'over the city of Pretoria.' Apparently
> Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he couldn't believe his luck that
> such a call would come while he has a home crowd observing him in action.
> He started lecturing the pilot from a superior height about the restricted
> area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of other violations which Dirk
> now has the power to either report or forgive the hapless pilot for this
> terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce was when he instructed the
> Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after landing. The real torture
> was about to occur when the pilo!
> t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
>
> It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While silence fell on everyone
> in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot stumble and apologize, the
> response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am the officer commanding
> northern command. I own this airspace and I will fly whenever and where
> ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my position but to provide
> me with landing instructions. Do you understand that simple instruction or
> do you want me to explain it to you in person when I get there?"
>
> Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it was long overdue, but
> the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the guy for a moment or so
> and chuckled over the incident for a long time afterwards. I just did it
> again.
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio conversation between a
> US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the coast of Newfoundland
> in October 1995.
>
> Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees North to avoid a
> collision.
>
> Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees South to avoid
> collision.
>
> Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship; I say again divert your
> course.
>
> Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
>
> Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
> SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
> DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU
> CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR
> COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.
>
> Canadians: We are a lighthouse; your call.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Good one, Nico...
Rob
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA along the same lines many
> years ago. The airport where I used to hang out for many years, Wonderboom,
> was located directly north of the Waterkloof air force base whose terminal
> area was south of Wonderboom and over the city of Pretoria. Civilian aircraft
> was rarely allowed to fly over the city because of military activities there.
>
> For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air traffic controller, Dirk
> Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would interfere and lecture
> everybody about everything, both in the tower and over the radio. It was a favorite
> pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and ask him questions just to see him
> light up and part with his superior intellect and knowledge, much to the
> amusement of everyone. Newcomers to the airport were oftentimes referred to Dirk
> for the most mundane and frivolous information, just to introduce them to this
> guy.
>
> So, one day there were a number of people in the tower while he was showing
> off correcting and reprimanding pilots, workers, and everyone who was within
> earshot, the severity, volume and antics of which depended upon who was with
> him in the tower and who would afford him the most bragging rights. A Cessna
> 310 called in for landing instructions and the pilot smartly announced his
> position as 'over the city of Pretoria.' Apparently Dirk's audience was the
> right fit, as if he couldn't believe his luck that such a call would come while
> he has a home crowd observing him in action. He started lecturing the pilot
> from a superior height about the restricted area that he happens to be in,
> and a myriad of other violations which Dirk now has the power to either report
> or forgive the hapless pilot for this terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de
> gr=E2ce was when he instructed the Cessna pilot to report to him in the
> tower after landing. The real torture was about to occur when the pilo!
> t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
>
> It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While silence fell on everyone in
> anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot stumble and apologize, the
> response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am the officer commanding northern
> command. I own this airspace and I will fly whenever and where ever I please.
> I didn't ask you to comment on my position but to provide me with landing
> instructions. Do you understand that simple instruction or do you want me to
> explain it to you in person when I get there?"
>
> Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it was long overdue, but the
> humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the guy for a moment or so and
> chuckled over the incident for a long time afterwards. I just did it again.
>
> Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Polito" <28bravo(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Long-life white LED replacements for #327 bulbs (Part |
Deux)
Stan:
I finally got around to installing the led's in the airplane. The plan was
to use them for all of the annunciator lamps. (Piper Malibu). There are two
bulbs per lamp assy. These are the rectangular type. I set up the landing
gear lamps first, boy are they nice and bright! When I flipped the
"day/night switch to "night", the lamps were completely extinguished. What I
surmise is happening is that the night position cuts the voltage down to a
level just below the excitation voltage of the led. I tried one led in the
post light holder and found that it would not dim sufficiently before
cutting off. I was not expecting this phenomena, I should have thought it
through a little more before getting 20 bulbs from you.
I see from your earlier post that you will take the bulbs back. Is this
still an option?
Best
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Long-life white LED replacements for #327 bulbs
(Part Deux)
>
> Hello Group!
>
> I have just acquired the second (and probably the last) lot of
> #327-style 28-volt LED lamps. If you want some and haven't gotten them
> from me yet, please let me know and I'll set them aside. Even if you
> asked me earlier to reserve some for you, please let me know again so
> that I can be sure 1) that you still want them, and 2) that you will get
> them.
>
> All of the people who have paid me for these lamps should already have
> received them from me. If not, please let me know right away.
>
> As I said in my original posting to the group, I installed these LED
> lamps in my plane to replace the #327 bulbs in the "push-to-test"
> landing gear indicator lights and a few other "push-to-test" indicator
> lights. I did not try them in any other applications, such as instrument
> post lighting, instrument eyebrow lighting, internal instrument or radio
> lighting, instrument panel backlighting, other types of indicator or
> warning lamps, or anywhere else.
>
> I recently received one anecdotal report from someone who tried them in
> eyebrow instrument lights and thought that they did not provide adequate
> illumination. After receiving this report and examining the lamps more
> closely, I concluded that the inadequate illumination was probably
> because these LED lamps are designed so that most of their light
> radiates from the end of the lamp, with a lot less light radiating out
> the sides.
>
> Therefore, please be aware that there may be some limitations in using
> these bulbs in applications other than the push-to-test (or similar
> style) indicator lights.
>
> I can't possibly test these lamps in every possible application, so
> please keep the above in mind when you order them. However, in the
> interest of TCFG peace and harmony, in case you should find--or have
> already found--that these LED lamps are unsuitable for your needs, just
> return them to me and I'll cheerfully refund your money.
>
> Regards,
> Stan
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | swperk(at)earthlink.net |
| Subject: | Re: Long-life white LED replacements for #327 bulbs |
(Part Deux)
Hi Dennis,
Sorry that they didn't work out for you. I think you're absolutely right as to
why they don't work when your dimmer switch is set to night mode.
Yes, you may return them to me and I'll send you a refund.
Regards,
Stan Perkins
2475 Loring Street
San Diego CA 92109-2348
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Polito <28bravo(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Long-life white LED replacements for #327 bulbs (Part
Deux)
Stan:
I finally got around to installing the led's in the airplane. The plan was
to use them for all of the annunciator lamps. (Piper Malibu). There are two
bulbs per lamp assy. These are the rectangular type. I set up the landing
gear lamps first, boy are they nice and bright! When I flipped the
"day/night switch to "night", the lamps were completely extinguished. What I
surmise is happening is that the night position cuts the voltage down to a
level just below the excitation voltage of the led. I tried one led in the
post light holder and found that it would not dim sufficiently before
cutting off. I was not expecting this phenomena, I should have thought it
through a little more before getting 20 bulbs from you.
I see from your earlier post that you will take the bulbs back. Is this
still an option?
Best
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Long-life white LED replacements for #327 bulbs
(Part Deux)
>
> Hello Group!
>
> I have just acquired the second (and probably the last) lot of
> #327-style 28-volt LED lamps. If you want some and haven't gotten them
> from me yet, please let me know and I'll set them aside. Even if you
> asked me earlier to reserve some for you, please let me know again so
> that I can be sure 1) that you still want them, and 2) that you will get
> them.
>
> All of the people who have paid me for these lamps should already have
> received them from me. If not, please let me know right away.
>
> As I said in my original posting to the group, I installed these LED
> lamps in my plane to replace the #327 bulbs in the "push-to-test"
> landing gear indicator lights and a few other "push-to-test" indicator
> lights. I did not try them in any other applications, such as instrument
> post lighting, instrument eyebrow lighting, internal instrument or radio
> lighting, instrument panel backlighting, other types of indicator or
> warning lamps, or anywhere else.
>
> I recently received one anecdotal report from someone who tried them in
> eyebrow instrument lights and thought that they did not provide adequate
> illumination. After receiving this report and examining the lamps more
> closely, I concluded that the inadequate illumination was probably
> because these LED lamps are designed so that most of their light
> radiates from the end of the lamp, with a lot less light radiating out
> the sides.
>
> Therefore, please be aware that there may be some limitations in using
> these bulbs in applications other than the push-to-test (or similar
> style) indicator lights.
>
> I can't possibly test these lamps in every possible application, so
> please keep the above in mind when you order them. However, in the
> interest of TCFG peace and harmony, in case you should find--or have
> already found--that these LED lamps are unsuitable for your needs, just
> return them to me and I'll cheerfully refund your money.
>
> Regards,
> Stan
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com> |
"barry.collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>,
"BILL MUNRO" ,
"BILL WILSON" ,
"BROOKE D HARLOW" ,
"candice" ,
"carol haskins" ,
"CLOUDCRAFT" ,
"commander-list" ,
"DAN BRUHL"
| Subject: | Fw: Fwd: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE DISTRIBUTED TO MANY |
----- Original Message -----
From: meredeth belew<mailto:belewtiful(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: FW: Fwd: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE DISTRIBUTED TO MANY
>From: Jennie Peck <jenniepeck(at)gmail.com<mailto:jenniepeck(at)gmail.com>>
>Reply-To: Jennie Peck >
>To: Aly >, Anna >, Blake
>>, Rachel Bibb >, Meredeth
>>, Bobby >, Clayton
>>, crystal >, Campbell
>>, Carol >, Carolyn Saour
>>, Erin >, Emily
>>, Mary Elen >, Hoge
>>, Jessica >, Hawn
>>, Johnny >, Katie James
>>, Juli >, Killo
>>, Rebecca Murphy >, Steph
>>, Whit >, Lauren
>>
>Subject: Fwd: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE DISTRIBUTED TO MANY
>Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:36:35 -0500
>
>If the pictures don't work scroll to the bottom...
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: Martin Peck <MPeck(at)trammellcrow.com<mailto:MPeck(at)trammellcrow.com>>
>Date: Jun 22, 2005 3:28 PM
>Subject: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE DISTRIBUTED TO MANY
>To: Elizabeth Peck >, Jennie Peck
>>, abs148(at)excite.com
>
>
>Forwarded in hopes that you all will give this info maximum
>dissemination........
>
>
>Denzel Washington : Brooks Army Medical Center
>
>Don't know whether you heard about this but Denzel Washington and his
>family visited the troups at Brook Army Medical Center, in San
>Antonio,Texas (BAMC) the other day. This is where soldiers that have
>been evacuated from Germany come to be hospitalized in the States,
>especially burn victims. They have buildings there called Fisher
>Houses. The Fisher House is a hotel where soldiers' families can stay,
>for little or no charge, while their soldier is staying in the
>hospital. BAMC has quite a few of these houses on base but as you can
>imagine, they are almost completely filled most of the time.
>
>While Denzel Washington was visiting BAMC, they gave him a tour of one
>of the Fisher Houses. He asked how much one of them would cost to
>build. He took his check book out and wrote a check for the full
>amount right there on the spot. The soldiers overseas were amazed to
>hear this story and want to get the word out to the American public,
>because it warmed their hearts to hear it.
>
>The question I have is why does Alec Baldwin, Modonna, Sean Penn and
>other Hollywood types make front page news with their anti-everything
>America crap and this doesn't even make page 3 in the Metro section of
>any newspaper except the base newspaper in San Antonio
>
>
>A true American and friend to all in uniform!
>
>
>++++++CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE++++++
>The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
>This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
>organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an
>authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
>notified that any review, dissemination or copying of this email and
>its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
>prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please
>immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
>from your system.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 |
I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for
information on wt and balance. I also believe I have
an ignorance on this subject when it comes to
commanders. In the wt and balance section of my 500B
approved flight manual page 2 it states "Passenger
weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per person". I
have read that statement before and always thought it
was used for example purposes only, however upon
further examination I believe it is meant to be true.
What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4
of weights and moments there is only moments for
passengers weighing 170# each. There is a moment
table for various fuel and baggage loads but none for
passengers. It does not mention extrapolating for
various weights. That only leaves an assumption of
direct correlation between weight and moment of the
passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about
assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack
of a moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty
weight of the airplane.
Could someone with knowledge in this area please
splain all this to me.
dan farmer
6369U
--- Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be
> found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
> plain ASCII version
> of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with
> a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06-23.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06-23.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
>
> Commander-List Digest
> Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu
> 06/23/05: 5
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget
> Watson)
> 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52(at)cs.com)
> 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis
> Polito)
> 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk(at)earthlink.net)
> 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE
> DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious
>
> Bridget Watson"
>
> Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I
> thought he was a big
> @#!&!
>
> :-)
>
> Andrew.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious
>
>
> >
> >
> > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA
> along the same lines
> > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang
> out for many years,
> > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the
> Waterkloof air force base
> > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and
> over the city of Pretoria.
> > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over
> the city because of
> > military activities there.
> >
> > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air
> traffic controller, Dirk
> > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would
> interfere and lecture
> > everybody about everything, both in the tower and
> over the radio. It was a
> > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and
> ask him questions just
> > to see him light up and part with his superior
> intellect and knowledge,
> > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to
> the airport were
> > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane
> and frivolous
> > information, just to introduce them to this guy.
> >
> > So, one day there were a number of people in the
> tower while he was
> > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots,
> workers, and everyone who
> > was within earshot, the severity, volume and
> antics of which depended upon
> > who was with him in the tower and who would afford
> him the most bragging
> > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing
> instructions and the pilot
> > smartly announced his position as 'over the city
> of Pretoria.' Apparently
> > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he
> couldn't believe his luck that
> > such a call would come while he has a home crowd
> observing him in action.
> > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior
> height about the restricted
> > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of
> other violations which Dirk
> > now has the power to either report or forgive the
> hapless pilot for this
> > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce
> was when he instructed the
> > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after
> landing. The real torture
> > was about to occur when the pilo!
> > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
> >
> > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While
> silence fell on everyone
> > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot
> stumble and apologize, the
> > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am
> the officer commanding
> > northern command. I own this airspace and I will
> fly whenever and where
> > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my
> position but to provide
> > me with landing instructions. Do you understand
> that simple instruction or
> > do you want me to explain it to you in person when
> I get there?"
> >
> > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it
> was long overdue, but
> > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the
> guy for a moment or so
> > and chuckled over the incident for a long time
> afterwards. I just did it
> > again.
> >
> > Nico
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >
> > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio
> conversation between a
> > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the
> coast of Newfoundland
> > in October 1995.
> >
> > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees
> North to avoid a
> > collision.
> >
> > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15
> degrees South to avoid
> > collision.
> >
> > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship;
> I say again divert your
> > course.
> >
> > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR
> course.
> >
> > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS
> LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
> > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE
> ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
> > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT
> VESSELS.
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wt. and balance |
Dan,
Even tho' the weight may change, the MOMENT of that weight will remain the
same.
The moment is the distance the weight is from the "zero" point used by the
aircraft manufacturer. So if the moment of the passenger behind the pilot is
figured at[do not worry about seat travel, it doesn't count] 100.00 inches @ 170
lbs. the arm would be 17,000. If the passenger weighed 210 lbs, it would still
be at the 100.00 inch moment and the arm would be 21,000. The point the
factory uses for the start or "zero" can be anywhere, but once its determined for
that aircraft, its set in stone. Anything forward of it is a minus, anything
aft is a plus. Hope this helps,
Rob
In a message dated 6/25/2005 7:18:53 PM Central Standard Time,
daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com writes:
> From:daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com
> Reply-to:commander-list(at)matronics.com
> To:commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
>
> I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for
> information on wt and balance. I also believe I have
> an ignorance on this subject when it comes to
> commanders. In the wt and balance section of my 500B
> approved flight manual page 2 it states "Passenger
> weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per person". I
> have read that statement before and always thought it
> was used for example purposes only, however upon
> further examination I believe it is meant to be true.
> What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4
> of weights and moments there is only moments for
> passengers weighing 170# each. There is a moment
> table for various fuel and baggage loads but none for
> passengers. It does not mention extrapolating for
> various weights. That only leaves an assumption of
> direct correlation between weight and moment of the
> passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about
> assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack
> of a moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty
> weight of the airplane.
>
> Could someone with knowledge in this area please
> splain all this to me.
> dan farmer
> 6369U
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 |
Dan:
Somehow the W&B stuff was missing from my 500A when I acquired it. TCAC was
happy to send [for a hefty fee!] copies of the original "Work Release
Order" showing all factory installed quipment and their weights and moments.
Cool data. Or course, the plane has changed a lot in the interim. ;>)
Regarding pax weight: I see no reason why this this would not be a linear
thing: as far as I'm concerned, if you have a really wide guy in the right
seat weighing in at 340, his moment would be 32. The the fuel and baggage
tables [my page 4 of 4] confirm that, to my way of thinking.
Oil: my page 3 0f 4 shows oil [6.0 gal] at 45#, Arm = +146
Moment/1000=6.57. It *is* included in my EW.
The other thing that became clear to me when doing some exercises with the
numbers for my plane: it seems the *only* way I can be out of CG is if I
have another guy my size [about 220] up front and we fly the thing down to
about 15 gallons. Then I'm out of CG forward. I don't expect to ever have
only 15 gallons in the tanks, but if somehow I do and I have a big guy next
to me, I'm sending him to the back a part my my pre-landing checklist. ;>)
Alan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of Dan Farmer
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:16 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
>
> -->
>
> I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for information
> on wt and balance. I also believe I have an ignorance on
> this subject when it comes to commanders. In the wt and
> balance section of my 500B approved flight manual page 2 it
> states "Passenger weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per
> person". I have read that statement before and always
> thought it was used for example purposes only, however upon
> further examination I believe it is meant to be true.
> What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4 of
> weights and moments there is only moments for passengers
> weighing 170# each. There is a moment table for various fuel
> and baggage loads but none for passengers. It does not
> mention extrapolating for various weights. That only leaves
> an assumption of direct correlation between weight and moment
> of the passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about
> assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack of a
> moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty weight of
> the airplane.
>
> Could someone with knowledge in this area please splain all
> this to me.
> dan farmer
> 6369U
>
> --- Commander-List Digest Server
> wrote:
>
> > *
> >
> > ==================================================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ==================================================
> >
> > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in
> either of
> > the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> > Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes
> > the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and
> can be viewed
> > with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> > HTML Version:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande
> r-List.2005-06-23.html
> >
> > Text Version:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande
> r-List.2005-06-23.txt
> >
> >
> > ================================================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Commander-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Thu
> > 06/23/05: 5
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Today's Message Index:
> > ----------------------
> >
> > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget
> > Watson)
> > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52(at)cs.com)
> > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis
> > Polito)
> > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk(at)earthlink.net)
> > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE
> > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 1
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
> >
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious
> >
> > Bridget Watson"
> >
> > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I
> > thought he was a big
> > @#!&!
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Andrew.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA
> > along the same lines
> > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang
> > out for many years,
> > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the
> > Waterkloof air force base
> > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and
> > over the city of Pretoria.
> > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over
> > the city because of
> > > military activities there.
> > >
> > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air
> > traffic controller, Dirk
> > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would
> > interfere and lecture
> > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and
> > over the radio. It was a
> > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and
> > ask him questions just
> > > to see him light up and part with his superior
> > intellect and knowledge,
> > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to
> > the airport were
> > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane
> > and frivolous
> > > information, just to introduce them to this guy.
> > >
> > > So, one day there were a number of people in the
> > tower while he was
> > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots,
> > workers, and everyone who
> > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and
> > antics of which depended upon
> > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford
> > him the most bragging
> > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing
> > instructions and the pilot
> > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city
> > of Pretoria.' Apparently
> > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he
> > couldn't believe his luck that
> > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd
> > observing him in action.
> > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior
> > height about the restricted
> > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of
> > other violations which Dirk
> > > now has the power to either report or forgive the
> > hapless pilot for this
> > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce
> > was when he instructed the
> > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after
> > landing. The real torture
> > > was about to occur when the pilo!
> > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
> > >
> > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While
> > silence fell on everyone
> > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot
> > stumble and apologize, the
> > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am
> > the officer commanding
> > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will
> > fly whenever and where
> > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my
> > position but to provide
> > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand
> > that simple instruction or
> > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when
> > I get there?"
> > >
> > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it
> > was long overdue, but
> > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the
> > guy for a moment or so
> > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time
> > afterwards. I just did it
> > > again.
> > >
> > > Nico
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > >
> > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio
> > conversation between a
> > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the
> > coast of Newfoundland
> > > in October 1995.
> > >
> > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees
> > North to avoid a
> > > collision.
> > >
> > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15
> > degrees South to avoid
> > > collision.
> > >
> > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship;
> > I say again divert your
> > > course.
> > >
> > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR
> > course.
> > >
> > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS
> > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
> > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE
> > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
> > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT
> > VESSELS.
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> 6/24/2005
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | First Angel Flight today |
I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical issues
and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule myself
for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks ago
but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip!
Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from
Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I
coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He asked
my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero
Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there were
about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the
firefighting that is going on there now.
It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight - my
first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a
great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few
hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might otherwise
have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
Alan
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 |
Dan;
The airlines all use the same weights, (170 lbs) however I think it is plus
10 lbs. in the winter. A real joke as this includes carry on baggage.
However if you want to figure it and figure it correctly, it's like Rob
says, just multiply the actual weight times the arm to get the moment
(position from the data line, which is usually out in front of the nose of
the aircraft, if it's not in front of the nose, you can get negative
figures which you just subtract), (wt. in lbs. x arm in inches equals
moment) take this figure and add them all together. You should only need
to figure passenger weight and moment, fuel, weight and moment and cargo or
baggage weight and moment, the rest should be figured in the chart for your
aircraft, and compare it to the chart. You just need to be within the
forward and rear CG limits then you only have to be concerned with
Max.gross weights. Been a few years since I had to figure all this by hand
but as I recall this is correct. The airlines are then allowed to subtract
half the adult weight for children if weight becomes a problem for field
conditions or second segment climb. These figures are used in case of an
engine failure at the critical point of flight.
Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you. If so I will try again.
Don
> [Original Message]
> From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Date: 6/25/2005 8:16:22 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
>
>
> I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for
> information on wt and balance. I also believe I have
> an ignorance on this subject when it comes to
> commanders. In the wt and balance section of my 500B
> approved flight manual page 2 it states "Passenger
> weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per person". I
> have read that statement before and always thought it
> was used for example purposes only, however upon
> further examination I believe it is meant to be true.
> What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4
> of weights and moments there is only moments for
> passengers weighing 170# each. There is a moment
> table for various fuel and baggage loads but none for
> passengers. It does not mention extrapolating for
> various weights. That only leaves an assumption of
> direct correlation between weight and moment of the
> passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about
> assuming. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack
> of a moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty
> weight of the airplane.
>
> Could someone with knowledge in this area please
> splain all this to me.
> dan farmer
> 6369U
>
> --- Commander-List Digest Server
> wrote:
>
> > *
> >
> > ==================================================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ==================================================
> >
> > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be
> > found in either of the
> > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> > the Digest formatted
> > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> > Hyperlinked Indexes
> > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
> > plain ASCII version
> > of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with
> > a generic text editor
> > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> > HTML Version:
> >
> >
> >
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
-23.html
> >
> > Text Version:
> >
> >
> >
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
-23.txt
> >
> >
> > ================================================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Commander-List Digest
> > Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Thu
> > 06/23/05: 5
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Today's Message Index:
> > ----------------------
> >
> > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget
> > Watson)
> > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52(at)cs.com)
> > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis
> > Polito)
> > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk(at)earthlink.net)
> > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE
> > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 1
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
> >
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious
> >
> > Bridget Watson"
> >
> > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I
> > thought he was a big
> > @#!&!
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Andrew.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA
> > along the same lines
> > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang
> > out for many years,
> > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the
> > Waterkloof air force base
> > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and
> > over the city of Pretoria.
> > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over
> > the city because of
> > > military activities there.
> > >
> > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air
> > traffic controller, Dirk
> > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would
> > interfere and lecture
> > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and
> > over the radio. It was a
> > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and
> > ask him questions just
> > > to see him light up and part with his superior
> > intellect and knowledge,
> > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to
> > the airport were
> > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane
> > and frivolous
> > > information, just to introduce them to this guy.
> > >
> > > So, one day there were a number of people in the
> > tower while he was
> > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots,
> > workers, and everyone who
> > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and
> > antics of which depended upon
> > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford
> > him the most bragging
> > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing
> > instructions and the pilot
> > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city
> > of Pretoria.' Apparently
> > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he
> > couldn't believe his luck that
> > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd
> > observing him in action.
> > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior
> > height about the restricted
> > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of
> > other violations which Dirk
> > > now has the power to either report or forgive the
> > hapless pilot for this
> > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce
> > was when he instructed the
> > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after
> > landing. The real torture
> > > was about to occur when the pilo!
> > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
> > >
> > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While
> > silence fell on everyone
> > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot
> > stumble and apologize, the
> > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am
> > the officer commanding
> > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will
> > fly whenever and where
> > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my
> > position but to provide
> > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand
> > that simple instruction or
> > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when
> > I get there?"
> > >
> > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it
> > was long overdue, but
> > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the
> > guy for a moment or so
> > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time
> > afterwards. I just did it
> > > again.
> > >
> > > Nico
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > >
> > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio
> > conversation between a
> > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the
> > coast of Newfoundland
> > > in October 1995.
> > >
> > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees
> > North to avoid a
> > > collision.
> > >
> > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15
> > degrees South to avoid
> > > collision.
> > >
> > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship;
> > I say again divert your
> > > course.
> > >
> > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR
> > course.
> > >
> > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS
> > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
> > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE
> > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
> > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT
> > VESSELS.
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> --
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Angel Flight today |
Alan
I was playing tennis this morning (Saturday) at Hidden Hills (Between
Camarillo and (closer to) Van Nuys) when at about 9 AM or so a turbine
Commander passed overhead. Fortunately it was my serve so the boys waited
till I was done gawking.
Was that you?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
>
> I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical
issues
> and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule
myself
> for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks
ago
> but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip!
>
> Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from
> Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I
> coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He
asked
> my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero
> Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there
were
> about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the
> firefighting that is going on there now.
>
> It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight -
my
> first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a
> great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few
> hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might
otherwise
> have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
>
> Alan
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | First Angel Flight today |
No, Nico, I'm a piston guy [500A]. We arrived at CMA at 1:30PM after
fighting a 45Kt headwind for the first half of the trip. Climbing out from
VGT the GS read: 82Kts. Haven't seen that in a while.
ak
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of nico css
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:27 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
>
> -->
>
> Alan
> I was playing tennis this morning (Saturday) at Hidden Hills
> (Between Camarillo and (closer to) Van Nuys) when at about 9
> AM or so a turbine Commander passed overhead. Fortunately it
> was my serve so the boys waited till I was done gawking.
> Was that you?
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
>
>
>
> >
> > I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but
> mechanical
> issues
> > and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able
> to schedule
> myself
> > for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a
> couple of weeks
> ago
> > but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip!
> >
> > Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take
> a patient from
> > Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a
> Seneca, and I
> > coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the
> transfer. He
> asked
> > my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him
> it was an Aero
> > Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed.
> At VGT there
> were
> > about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as
> spotters for the
> > firefighting that is going on there now.
> >
> > It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double
> rookie" flight -
> my
> > first AF mission and the patient's first time in small
> planes. She was a
> > great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to
> spend a few
> > hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might
> otherwise
> > have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> 6/24/2005
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 |
Alan,
That's exactly what I learned in my Commander-specific training, where they
made me do numerous W the *only* way you can be out of CG in
a Commander is if you have nearly empty tanks and a REALLY BIG guy in the
copilot seat. I'm with you, on the pre-landing checklist.
My airplane used to fly cargo and still has some of those interior
peculiarities....so if I needed to, I could stuff that fat guy through the
aft bulkhead into the baggage hold. Wouldn't be pretty though.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
>
> Dan:
>
> Somehow the W&B stuff was missing from my 500A when I acquired it. TCAC
was
> happy to send [for a hefty fee!] copies of the original "Work Release
> Order" showing all factory installed quipment and their weights and
moments.
> Cool data. Or course, the plane has changed a lot in the interim. ;>)
>
> Regarding pax weight: I see no reason why this this would not be a linear
> thing: as far as I'm concerned, if you have a really wide guy in the right
> seat weighing in at 340, his moment would be 32. The the fuel and baggage
> tables [my page 4 of 4] confirm that, to my way of thinking.
>
> Oil: my page 3 0f 4 shows oil [6.0 gal] at 45#, Arm = +146
> Moment/1000=6.57. It *is* included in my EW.
>
> The other thing that became clear to me when doing some exercises with the
> numbers for my plane: it seems the *only* way I can be out of CG is if I
> have another guy my size [about 220] up front and we fly the thing down to
> about 15 gallons. Then I'm out of CG forward. I don't expect to ever
have
> only 15 gallons in the tanks, but if somehow I do and I have a big guy
next
> to me, I'm sending him to the back a part my my pre-landing checklist. ;>)
>
> Alan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> > Of Dan Farmer
> > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:16 PM
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
> >
> > -->
> >
> > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for information
> > on wt and balance. I also believe I have an ignorance on
> > this subject when it comes to commanders. In the wt and
> > balance section of my 500B approved flight manual page 2 it
> > states "Passenger weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per
> > person". I have read that statement before and always
> > thought it was used for example purposes only, however upon
> > further examination I believe it is meant to be true.
> > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4 of
> > weights and moments there is only moments for passengers
> > weighing 170# each. There is a moment table for various fuel
> > and baggage loads but none for passengers. It does not
> > mention extrapolating for various weights. That only leaves
> > an assumption of direct correlation between weight and moment
> > of the passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about
> > assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack of a
> > moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty weight of
> > the airplane.
> >
> > Could someone with knowledge in this area please splain all
> > this to me.
> > dan farmer
> > 6369U
> >
> > --- Commander-List Digest Server
> > wrote:
> >
> > > *
> > >
> > > ==================================================
> > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > > ==================================================
> > >
> > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in
> > either of
> > > the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> > > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> > > Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes
> > > the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and
> > can be viewed
> > > with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> > >
> > > HTML Version:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande
> > r-List.2005-06-23.html
> > >
> > > Text Version:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande
> > r-List.2005-06-23.txt
> > >
> > >
> > > ================================================
> > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > > ================================================
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Commander-List Digest Archive
> > > ---
> > > Total Messages Posted Thu
> > > 06/23/05: 5
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Message Index:
> > > ----------------------
> > >
> > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget
> > > Watson)
> > > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52(at)cs.com)
> > > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> > > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis
> > > Polito)
> > > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> > > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk(at)earthlink.net)
> > > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE
> > > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________ Message 1
> > > _____________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious
> > >
> > > Bridget Watson"
> > >
> > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I
> > > thought he was a big
> > > @#!&!
> > >
> > > :-)
> > >
> > > Andrew.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA
> > > along the same lines
> > > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang
> > > out for many years,
> > > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the
> > > Waterkloof air force base
> > > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and
> > > over the city of Pretoria.
> > > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over
> > > the city because of
> > > > military activities there.
> > > >
> > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air
> > > traffic controller, Dirk
> > > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would
> > > interfere and lecture
> > > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and
> > > over the radio. It was a
> > > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and
> > > ask him questions just
> > > > to see him light up and part with his superior
> > > intellect and knowledge,
> > > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to
> > > the airport were
> > > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane
> > > and frivolous
> > > > information, just to introduce them to this guy.
> > > >
> > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the
> > > tower while he was
> > > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots,
> > > workers, and everyone who
> > > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and
> > > antics of which depended upon
> > > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford
> > > him the most bragging
> > > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing
> > > instructions and the pilot
> > > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city
> > > of Pretoria.' Apparently
> > > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he
> > > couldn't believe his luck that
> > > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd
> > > observing him in action.
> > > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior
> > > height about the restricted
> > > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of
> > > other violations which Dirk
> > > > now has the power to either report or forgive the
> > > hapless pilot for this
> > > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce
> > > was when he instructed the
> > > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after
> > > landing. The real torture
> > > > was about to occur when the pilo!
> > > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
> > > >
> > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While
> > > silence fell on everyone
> > > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot
> > > stumble and apologize, the
> > > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am
> > > the officer commanding
> > > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will
> > > fly whenever and where
> > > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my
> > > position but to provide
> > > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand
> > > that simple instruction or
> > > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when
> > > I get there?"
> > > >
> > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it
> > > was long overdue, but
> > > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the
> > > guy for a moment or so
> > > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time
> > > afterwards. I just did it
> > > > again.
> > > >
> > > > Nico
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio
> > > conversation between a
> > > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the
> > > coast of Newfoundland
> > > > in October 1995.
> > > >
> > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees
> > > North to avoid a
> > > > collision.
> > > >
> > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15
> > > degrees South to avoid
> > > > collision.
> > > >
> > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship;
> > > I say again divert your
> > > > course.
> > > >
> > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR
> > > course.
> > > >
> > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS
> > > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
> > > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE
> > > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
> > > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT
> > > VESSELS.
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 6/24/2005
> >
> >
>
> --
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 |
Dangit, this list omits some of the characters I send; should have looked
like this:
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
>
> Alan,
>
> That's exactly what I learned in my Commander-specific training, where
they
> made me do numerous W AND B CALCULATIONS. WHAT I LEARNED WAS THAT the
*only* way you can be out of CG in
> a Commander is if you have nearly empty tanks and a REALLY BIG guy in the
> copilot seat. I'm with you, on the pre-landing checklist.
>
> My airplane used to fly cargo and still has some of those interior
> peculiarities....so if I needed to, I could stuff that fat guy through the
> aft bulkhead into the baggage hold. Wouldn't be pretty though.
>
> /John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
>
>
>
> >
> > Dan:
> >
> > Somehow the W&B stuff was missing from my 500A when I acquired it. TCAC
> was
> > happy to send [for a hefty fee!] copies of the original "Work Release
> > Order" showing all factory installed quipment and their weights and
> moments.
> > Cool data. Or course, the plane has changed a lot in the interim. ;>)
> >
> > Regarding pax weight: I see no reason why this this would not be a
linear
> > thing: as far as I'm concerned, if you have a really wide guy in the
right
> > seat weighing in at 340, his moment would be 32. The the fuel and
baggage
> > tables [my page 4 of 4] confirm that, to my way of thinking.
> >
> > Oil: my page 3 0f 4 shows oil [6.0 gal] at 45#, Arm = +146
> > Moment/1000=6.57. It *is* included in my EW.
> >
> > The other thing that became clear to me when doing some exercises with
the
> > numbers for my plane: it seems the *only* way I can be out of CG is if I
> > have another guy my size [about 220] up front and we fly the thing down
to
> > about 15 gallons. Then I'm out of CG forward. I don't expect to ever
> have
> > only 15 gallons in the tanks, but if somehow I do and I have a big guy
> next
> > to me, I'm sending him to the back a part my my pre-landing checklist.
;>)
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> > > Of Dan Farmer
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:16 PM
> > > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
> > >
> > > -->
> > >
> > > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for information
> > > on wt and balance. I also believe I have an ignorance on
> > > this subject when it comes to commanders. In the wt and
> > > balance section of my 500B approved flight manual page 2 it
> > > states "Passenger weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per
> > > person". I have read that statement before and always
> > > thought it was used for example purposes only, however upon
> > > further examination I believe it is meant to be true.
> > > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4 of
> > > weights and moments there is only moments for passengers
> > > weighing 170# each. There is a moment table for various fuel
> > > and baggage loads but none for passengers. It does not
> > > mention extrapolating for various weights. That only leaves
> > > an assumption of direct correlation between weight and moment
> > > of the passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about
> > > assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack of a
> > > moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty weight of
> > > the airplane.
> > >
> > > Could someone with knowledge in this area please splain all
> > > this to me.
> > > dan farmer
> > > 6369U
> > >
> > > --- Commander-List Digest Server
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > > ==================================================
> > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > > > ==================================================
> > > >
> > > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in
> > > either of
> > > > the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> > > > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> > > > Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes
> > > > the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and
> > > can be viewed
> > > > with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> > > >
> > > > HTML Version:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande
> > > r-List.2005-06-23.html
> > > >
> > > > Text Version:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande
> > > r-List.2005-06-23.txt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ================================================
> > > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > > > ================================================
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Commander-List Digest Archive
> > > > ---
> > > > Total Messages Posted Thu
> > > > 06/23/05: 5
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Today's Message Index:
> > > > ----------------------
> > > >
> > > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget
> > > > Watson)
> > > > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52(at)cs.com)
> > > > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> > > > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis
> > > > Polito)
> > > > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> > > > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk(at)earthlink.net)
> > > > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE
> > > > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________ Message 1
> > > > _____________________________________
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious
> > > >
> > > > Bridget Watson"
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I
> > > > thought he was a big
> > > > @#!&!
> > > >
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Andrew.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > > > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA
> > > > along the same lines
> > > > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang
> > > > out for many years,
> > > > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the
> > > > Waterkloof air force base
> > > > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and
> > > > over the city of Pretoria.
> > > > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over
> > > > the city because of
> > > > > military activities there.
> > > > >
> > > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air
> > > > traffic controller, Dirk
> > > > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would
> > > > interfere and lecture
> > > > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and
> > > > over the radio. It was a
> > > > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and
> > > > ask him questions just
> > > > > to see him light up and part with his superior
> > > > intellect and knowledge,
> > > > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to
> > > > the airport were
> > > > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane
> > > > and frivolous
> > > > > information, just to introduce them to this guy.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the
> > > > tower while he was
> > > > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots,
> > > > workers, and everyone who
> > > > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and
> > > > antics of which depended upon
> > > > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford
> > > > him the most bragging
> > > > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing
> > > > instructions and the pilot
> > > > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city
> > > > of Pretoria.' Apparently
> > > > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he
> > > > couldn't believe his luck that
> > > > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd
> > > > observing him in action.
> > > > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior
> > > > height about the restricted
> > > > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of
> > > > other violations which Dirk
> > > > > now has the power to either report or forgive the
> > > > hapless pilot for this
> > > > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce
> > > > was when he instructed the
> > > > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after
> > > > landing. The real torture
> > > > > was about to occur when the pilo!
> > > > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
> > > > >
> > > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While
> > > > silence fell on everyone
> > > > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot
> > > > stumble and apologize, the
> > > > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am
> > > > the officer commanding
> > > > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will
> > > > fly whenever and where
> > > > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my
> > > > position but to provide
> > > > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand
> > > > that simple instruction or
> > > > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when
> > > > I get there?"
> > > > >
> > > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it
> > > > was long overdue, but
> > > > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the
> > > > guy for a moment or so
> > > > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time
> > > > afterwards. I just did it
> > > > > again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nico
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio
> > > > conversation between a
> > > > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the
> > > > coast of Newfoundland
> > > > > in October 1995.
> > > > >
> > > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees
> > > > North to avoid a
> > > > > collision.
> > > > >
> > > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15
> > > > degrees South to avoid
> > > > > collision.
> > > > >
> > > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship;
> > > > I say again divert your
> > > > > course.
> > > > >
> > > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR
> > > > course.
> > > > >
> > > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS
> > > > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
> > > > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE
> > > > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
> > > > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT
> > > > VESSELS.
> > > === message truncated ===
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > 6/24/2005
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 |
Hi Guys,
I watched a TV program over here a month or two ago regarding the accident to
the Beech 1900D in Charlotte, which occurred on January 8th 2003.
One of the causes was "(5) the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) average
weight assumptions in its weight and balance program guidance at the time of the
accident."
If I recall correctly, 170lb. was the weight allowance for each passenger and
this figure hadn't changed in years. This contributed to the aircraft having an
aft cg., with the plane taking off with all 19 passenger seats full and each
passenger having a lot of baggage.
There was talk of the '170lb' figure being scrapped and airlines were to use
200lb. instead.
I think of myself as being pretty much average. 6ft 1 inch tall, weighing just
over 14 stone. With 14 pounds to a stone, that puts me at 200lb., without any
carry-on baggage. Time to think again, FAA?
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
|
| Dan;
|
| The airlines all use the same weights, (170 lbs) however I think it is plus
| 10 lbs. in the winter. A real joke as this includes carry on baggage.
| However if you want to figure it and figure it correctly, it's like Rob
| says, just multiply the actual weight times the arm to get the moment
| (position from the data line, which is usually out in front of the nose of
| the aircraft, if it's not in front of the nose, you can get negative
| figures which you just subtract), (wt. in lbs. x arm in inches equals
| moment) take this figure and add them all together. You should only need
| to figure passenger weight and moment, fuel, weight and moment and cargo or
| baggage weight and moment, the rest should be figured in the chart for your
| aircraft, and compare it to the chart. You just need to be within the
| forward and rear CG limits then you only have to be concerned with
| Max.gross weights. Been a few years since I had to figure all this by hand
| but as I recall this is correct. The airlines are then allowed to subtract
| half the adult weight for children if weight becomes a problem for field
| conditions or second segment climb. These figures are used in case of an
| engine failure at the critical point of flight.
|
| Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you. If so I will try again.
|
| Don
|
|
| > [Original Message]
| > From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
| > To:
| > Date: 6/25/2005 8:16:22 PM
| > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
| >
| >
| > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for
| > information on wt and balance. I also believe I have
| > an ignorance on this subject when it comes to
| > commanders. In the wt and balance section of my 500B
| > approved flight manual page 2 it states "Passenger
| > weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per person". I
| > have read that statement before and always thought it
| > was used for example purposes only, however upon
| > further examination I believe it is meant to be true.
| > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4
| > of weights and moments there is only moments for
| > passengers weighing 170# each. There is a moment
| > table for various fuel and baggage loads but none for
| > passengers. It does not mention extrapolating for
| > various weights. That only leaves an assumption of
| > direct correlation between weight and moment of the
| > passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about
| > assuming. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack
| > of a moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty
| > weight of the airplane.
| >
| > Could someone with knowledge in this area please
| > splain all this to me.
| > dan farmer
| > 6369U
| >
| > --- Commander-List Digest Server
| > wrote:
| >
| > > *
| > >
| > > ==================================================
| > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
| > > ==================================================
| > >
| > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be
| > > found in either of the
| > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
| > > the Digest formatted
| > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
| > > Hyperlinked Indexes
| > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
| > > plain ASCII version
| > > of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with
| > > a generic text editor
| > > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
| > >
| > > HTML Version:
| > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
| -23.html
| > >
| > > Text Version:
| > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
| -23.txt
| > >
| > >
| > > ================================================
| > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
| > > ================================================
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > Commander-List Digest
| > > Archive
| > > ---
| > > Total Messages Posted Thu
| > > 06/23/05: 5
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > Today's Message Index:
| > > ----------------------
| > >
| > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget
| > > Watson)
| > > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52(at)cs.com)
| > > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
| > > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis
| > > Polito)
| > > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
| > > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk(at)earthlink.net)
| > > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE
| > > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > ________________________________ Message 1
| > > _____________________________________
| > >
| > >
| > > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
| > >
| > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious
| > >
| > > Bridget Watson"
| > >
| > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I
| > > thought he was a big
| > > @#!&!
| > >
| > > :-)
| > >
| > > Andrew.
| > >
| > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
| > > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious
| > >
| > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA
| > > along the same lines
| > > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang
| > > out for many years,
| > > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the
| > > Waterkloof air force base
| > > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and
| > > over the city of Pretoria.
| > > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over
| > > the city because of
| > > > military activities there.
| > > >
| > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air
| > > traffic controller, Dirk
| > > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would
| > > interfere and lecture
| > > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and
| > > over the radio. It was a
| > > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and
| > > ask him questions just
| > > > to see him light up and part with his superior
| > > intellect and knowledge,
| > > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to
| > > the airport were
| > > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane
| > > and frivolous
| > > > information, just to introduce them to this guy.
| > > >
| > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the
| > > tower while he was
| > > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots,
| > > workers, and everyone who
| > > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and
| > > antics of which depended upon
| > > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford
| > > him the most bragging
| > > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing
| > > instructions and the pilot
| > > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city
| > > of Pretoria.' Apparently
| > > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he
| > > couldn't believe his luck that
| > > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd
| > > observing him in action.
| > > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior
| > > height about the restricted
| > > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of
| > > other violations which Dirk
| > > > now has the power to either report or forgive the
| > > hapless pilot for this
| > > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce
| > > was when he instructed the
| > > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after
| > > landing. The real torture
| > > > was about to occur when the pilo!
| > > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
| > > >
| > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While
| > > silence fell on everyone
| > > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot
| > > stumble and apologize, the
| > > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am
| > > the officer commanding
| > > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will
| > > fly whenever and where
| > > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my
| > > position but to provide
| > > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand
| > > that simple instruction or
| > > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when
| > > I get there?"
| > > >
| > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it
| > > was long overdue, but
| > > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the
| > > guy for a moment or so
| > > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time
| > > afterwards. I just did it
| > > > again.
| > > >
| > > > Nico
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio
| > > conversation between a
| > > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the
| > > coast of Newfoundland
| > > > in October 1995.
| > > >
| > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees
| > > North to avoid a
| > > > collision.
| > > >
| > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15
| > > degrees South to avoid
| > > > collision.
| > > >
| > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship;
| > > I say again divert your
| > > > course.
| > > >
| > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR
| > > course.
| > > >
| > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS
| > > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
| > > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE
| > > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
| > > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT
| > > VESSELS.
| > === message truncated ===
| >
| >
| > --
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | First Angel Flight today |
Hi Alan,
I too am a member of Angel Flight. I joined shortly after 9/11, when I
learned that some of the only planes flying after that tragedy were Angel
Flights moving essential people, medicines, etc. I feel that it's my way to
contribute to the community and country. My thought was to try to work the
AF flights into my business, as I fly frequently to jobsites around the
western states. However, I have found that didn't really work out, so my
Angel Flights are whenever I can work them into my schedule (and budget...as
my 680F has a pretty high fuel burn.) My daughter and I recently flew
three burn survivors down from Sacramento to Fresno to attend summer
camp...it was a great experience. I am glad to know that another Commander
owner is in the group.
Randy Dettmer
580F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
Kucheck
Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical issues
and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule myself
for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks ago
but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip!
Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from
Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I
coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He asked
my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero
Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there were
about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the
firefighting that is going on there now.
It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight - my
first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a
great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few
hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might otherwise
have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
Alan
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 |
I do not ever use arbitrary weights set by someone not in my aircraft.
I carry a set of bathroom scales and make everyone weigh themselves.
For some of the sensitive ones of the opposite gender I make them hold their
bag as the are weighed therefore I will not know "her" weight.
Tom F.
C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I watched a TV program over here a month or two ago regarding the accident
to
> the Beech 1900D in Charlotte, which occurred on January 8th 2003.
>
> One of the causes was "(5) the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA)
average
> weight assumptions in its weight and balance program guidance at the time
of the
> accident."
>
> If I recall correctly, 170lb. was the weight allowance for each passenger
and
> this figure hadn't changed in years. This contributed to the aircraft
having an
> aft cg., with the plane taking off with all 19 passenger seats full and
each
> passenger having a lot of baggage.
>
> There was talk of the '170lb' figure being scrapped and airlines were to
use
> 200lb. instead.
>
> I think of myself as being pretty much average. 6ft 1 inch tall, weighing
just
> over 14 stone. With 14 pounds to a stone, that puts me at 200lb., without
any
> carry-on baggage. Time to think again, FAA?
>
> Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
>
>
> |
> | Dan;
> |
> | The airlines all use the same weights, (170 lbs) however I think it is
plus
> | 10 lbs. in the winter. A real joke as this includes carry on baggage.
> | However if you want to figure it and figure it correctly, it's like Rob
> | says, just multiply the actual weight times the arm to get the moment
> | (position from the data line, which is usually out in front of the nose
of
> | the aircraft, if it's not in front of the nose, you can get negative
> | figures which you just subtract), (wt. in lbs. x arm in inches equals
> | moment) take this figure and add them all together. You should only
need
> | to figure passenger weight and moment, fuel, weight and moment and cargo
or
> | baggage weight and moment, the rest should be figured in the chart for
your
> | aircraft, and compare it to the chart. You just need to be within the
> | forward and rear CG limits then you only have to be concerned with
> | Max.gross weights. Been a few years since I had to figure all this by
hand
> | but as I recall this is correct. The airlines are then allowed to
subtract
> | half the adult weight for children if weight becomes a problem for field
> | conditions or second segment climb. These figures are used in case of
an
> | engine failure at the critical point of flight.
> |
> | Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you. If so I will try again.
> |
> | Don
> |
> |
> | > [Original Message]
> | > From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
> | > To:
> | > Date: 6/25/2005 8:16:22 PM
> | > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
> | >
> | >
> | > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for
> | > information on wt and balance. I also believe I have
> | > an ignorance on this subject when it comes to
> | > commanders. In the wt and balance section of my 500B
> | > approved flight manual page 2 it states "Passenger
> | > weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per person". I
> | > have read that statement before and always thought it
> | > was used for example purposes only, however upon
> | > further examination I believe it is meant to be true.
> | > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4
> | > of weights and moments there is only moments for
> | > passengers weighing 170# each. There is a moment
> | > table for various fuel and baggage loads but none for
> | > passengers. It does not mention extrapolating for
> | > various weights. That only leaves an assumption of
> | > direct correlation between weight and moment of the
> | > passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about
> | > assuming. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack
> | > of a moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty
> | > weight of the airplane.
> | >
> | > Could someone with knowledge in this area please
> | > splain all this to me.
> | > dan farmer
> | > 6369U
> | >
> | > --- Commander-List Digest Server
> | > wrote:
> | >
> | > > *
> | > >
> | > > ==================================================
> | > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> | > > ==================================================
> | > >
> | > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be
> | > > found in either of the
> | > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> | > > the Digest formatted
> | > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> | > > Hyperlinked Indexes
> | > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
> | > > plain ASCII version
> | > > of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with
> | > > a generic text editor
> | > > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> | > >
> | > > HTML Version:
> | > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | >
> |
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
> | -23.html
> | > >
> | > > Text Version:
> | > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | >
> |
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
> | -23.txt
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > ================================================
> | > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> | > > ================================================
> | > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > Commander-List Digest
> | > > Archive
> | > > ---
> | > > Total Messages Posted Thu
> | > > 06/23/05: 5
> | > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > Today's Message Index:
> | > > ----------------------
> | > >
> | > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget
> | > > Watson)
> | > > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52(at)cs.com)
> | > > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> | > > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis
> | > > Polito)
> | > > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
> | > > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk(at)earthlink.net)
> | > > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE
> | > > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
> | > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > ________________________________ Message 1
> | > > _____________________________________
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
> | > >
> | > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious
> | > >
> | > > Bridget Watson"
> | > >
> | > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I
> | > > thought he was a big
> | > > @#!&!
> | > >
> | > > :-)
> | > >
> | > > Andrew.
> | > >
> | > > ----- Original Message -----
> | > > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> | > > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA
> | > > along the same lines
> | > > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang
> | > > out for many years,
> | > > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the
> | > > Waterkloof air force base
> | > > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and
> | > > over the city of Pretoria.
> | > > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over
> | > > the city because of
> | > > > military activities there.
> | > > >
> | > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air
> | > > traffic controller, Dirk
> | > > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would
> | > > interfere and lecture
> | > > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and
> | > > over the radio. It was a
> | > > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and
> | > > ask him questions just
> | > > > to see him light up and part with his superior
> | > > intellect and knowledge,
> | > > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to
> | > > the airport were
> | > > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane
> | > > and frivolous
> | > > > information, just to introduce them to this guy.
> | > > >
> | > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the
> | > > tower while he was
> | > > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots,
> | > > workers, and everyone who
> | > > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and
> | > > antics of which depended upon
> | > > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford
> | > > him the most bragging
> | > > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing
> | > > instructions and the pilot
> | > > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city
> | > > of Pretoria.' Apparently
> | > > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he
> | > > couldn't believe his luck that
> | > > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd
> | > > observing him in action.
> | > > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior
> | > > height about the restricted
> | > > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of
> | > > other violations which Dirk
> | > > > now has the power to either report or forgive the
> | > > hapless pilot for this
> | > > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce
> | > > was when he instructed the
> | > > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after
> | > > landing. The real torture
> | > > > was about to occur when the pilo!
> | > > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
> | > > >
> | > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While
> | > > silence fell on everyone
> | > > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot
> | > > stumble and apologize, the
> | > > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am
> | > > the officer commanding
> | > > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will
> | > > fly whenever and where
> | > > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my
> | > > position but to provide
> | > > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand
> | > > that simple instruction or
> | > > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when
> | > > I get there?"
> | > > >
> | > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it
> | > > was long overdue, but
> | > > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the
> | > > guy for a moment or so
> | > > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time
> | > > afterwards. I just did it
> | > > > again.
> | > > >
> | > > > Nico
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > ----- Original Message -----
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio
> | > > conversation between a
> | > > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the
> | > > coast of Newfoundland
> | > > > in October 1995.
> | > > >
> | > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees
> | > > North to avoid a
> | > > > collision.
> | > > >
> | > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15
> | > > degrees South to avoid
> | > > > collision.
> | > > >
> | > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship;
> | > > I say again divert your
> | > > > course.
> | > > >
> | > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR
> | > > course.
> | > > >
> | > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS
> | > > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
> | > > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE
> | > > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
> | > > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT
> | > > VESSELS.
> | > === message truncated ===
> | >
> | >
> | > --
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | First Angel Flight today |
I want to thank all those who do Angle Flights. My brother has been taken
to Cancer treatment several times. He has flown in a 172, Seneca, Lance,
and other aircraft. He goes from Long Island to Pittsburg. It makes it a
lot easier on him. Everyone has been very helpful.
Tylor Hall
Hi Alan,
I too am a member of Angel Flight. I joined shortly after 9/11, when I
learned that some of the only planes flying after that tragedy were Angel
Flights moving essential people, medicines, etc. I feel that it's my way to
contribute to the community and country. My thought was to try to work the
AF flights into my business, as I fly frequently to jobsites around the
western states. However, I have found that didn't really work out, so my
Angel Flights are whenever I can work them into my schedule (and budget...as
my 680F has a pretty high fuel burn.) My daughter and I recently flew
three burn survivors down from Sacramento to Fresno to attend summer
camp...it was a great experience. I am glad to know that another Commander
owner is in the group.
Randy Dettmer
580F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
Kucheck
Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical issues
and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule myself
for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks ago
but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip!
Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from
Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I
coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He asked
my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero
Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there were
about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the
firefighting that is going on there now.
It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight - my
first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a
great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few
hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might otherwise
have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
Alan
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Angel Flight today |
In a message dated 6/25/2005 7:10:15 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
akucheck(at)hotmail.com writes:
And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might otherwise
have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
Great story Alan!! Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | First Angel Flight today |
i also do angel flights and homeland security units coordinated by angel
flight. mason 2001m
>From: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
>Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:54:11 -0600
>
>
>
>I want to thank all those who do Angle Flights. My brother has been taken
>to Cancer treatment several times. He has flown in a 172, Seneca, Lance,
>and other aircraft. He goes from Long Island to Pittsburg. It makes it a
>lot easier on him. Everyone has been very helpful.
>
>Tylor Hall
>
>
>
>Hi Alan,
>I too am a member of Angel Flight. I joined shortly after 9/11, when I
>learned that some of the only planes flying after that tragedy were Angel
>Flights moving essential people, medicines, etc. I feel that it's my way
>to
>contribute to the community and country. My thought was to try to work the
>AF flights into my business, as I fly frequently to jobsites around the
>western states. However, I have found that didn't really work out, so my
>Angel Flights are whenever I can work them into my schedule (and
>budget...as
>my 680F has a pretty high fuel burn.) My daughter and I recently flew
>three burn survivors down from Sacramento to Fresno to attend summer
>camp...it was a great experience. I am glad to know that another Commander
>owner is in the group.
>
>Randy Dettmer
>580F/N6253X
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
>Kucheck
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
>
>
>I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical
>issues
>and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule
>myself
>for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks
>ago
>but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip!
>
>Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from
>Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I
>coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He
>asked
>my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero
>Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there were
>about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the
>firefighting that is going on there now.
>
>It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight -
>my
>first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a
>great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few
>hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might
>otherwise
>have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
>
>Alan
>
>
>--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Folks, take a look at this picture and see if you can tell what it is and
what is happening.
I cannot offer you a prize, except to let everyone know you have a keen
sense of observation. There are certain things that no one except I would
know, but see how close you can get.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0064_IMG.JPG
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What is this? |
Good Evening Nico,
Looks like runway end and side lighting along with an older style VASI seen
through a bit of turbulence or taken by a camera using too long an exposure.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
In a message dated 6/26/2005 6:38:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Folks, take a look at this picture and see if you can tell what it is and
what is happening.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this? |
Christmas tree on the back of a Harley...
Rob
In a message dated 6/26/2005 6:40:06 PM Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Folks, take a look at this picture and see if you can tell what it is and
> what is happening.
>
> I cannot offer you a prize, except to let everyone know you have a keen
> sense of observation. There are certain things that no one except I would
> know, but see how close you can get.
>
> http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0064_IMG.JPG
>
> Thanks
> Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this? |
I think you're a lot closer than I am, Bob!
Rob
In a message dated 6/26/2005 7:27:37 PM Central Standard Time,
BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> Looks like runway end and side lighting along with an older style VASI seen
>
> through a bit of turbulence or taken by a camera using too long an
> exposure.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this? |
I've seen that after 9 or 10 beers, but I didn't know anybody else was able
to see it.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: What is this?
>
>
> Folks, take a look at this picture and see if you can tell what it is and
> what is happening.
>
> I cannot offer you a prize, except to let everyone know you have a keen
> sense of observation. There are certain things that no one except I would
> know, but see how close you can get.
>
> http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0064_IMG.JPG
>
> Thanks
> Nico
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>Folks, take a look at this picture and see if you can tell what it is and
what is happening.
>Looks like runway end and side lighting along with an older style VASI
seen
through a bit of turbulence or taken by a camera using too long an
exposure.
>Christmas tree on the back of a Harley...
Well, my guess is pretty much what Bob said with the added possibility of a
polarized lens cover on your camera or severe distortment in the lower part
of your plexi through which your camera had to focus.
Larry Wokral
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
It is sad that anyone should die in an aviation accident. And, perhaps for no good
reason, it sounds extra unnecessary if it happens in something like a microlight.
When my daughter heard the news, she spontaneously commented, "why couldn't
he just stick to Gulfstreams?"
I thought that was funny.
(With respect to John Walton's family.)
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Heaters |
Fellow Commander Drivers:
You might want to add to your parts source list for heaters:
C & D Associates
302 Post Road
Buchanan, MI 49107 (Niles Michigan Airport 3TC)
Phone 269.695.7469
FAX 269.695.6004
www.aircraftheater.com
For less than the price of a stock overhaul, they will install a brand new C &
D unit that has a TBO of 2,000 hours. For the pressurized models it works completely
independent of the troublesome B/C environmental control. It also does
not use the stock combustion air fan and its assorted paraphernalia. It comes
with its own single knob off/ on temp control switch. They also rebuild stock
heaters (but why?).
I went back last week and had them install one, and although I have used it only
a couple of hours I am very favorably impressed.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Heaters |
Very good, Thanks, Moe.
Rob
In a message dated 6/28/2005 7:02:23 PM Central Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
> Fellow Commander Drivers:
>
> You might want to add to your parts source list for heaters:
>
> C &D Associates
> 302 Post Road
> Buchanan, MI 49107 (Niles Michigan Airport 3TC)
> Phone 269.695.7469
> FAX 269.695.6004
> www.aircraftheater.com
>
> For less than the price of a stock overhaul, they will install a brand new C
> &D unit that has a TBO of 2,000 hours. For the pressurized models it works
> completely independent of the troublesome B/C environmental control. It also
> does not use the stock combustion air fan and its assorted paraphernalia.
> It comes with its own single knob off/ on temp control switch. They also
> rebuild stock heaters (but why?).
>
> I went back last week and had them install one, and although I have used it
> only a couple of hours I am very favorably impressed.
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
Thanks folks, we had quite a response to this question. Everybody was right,
except the Harley Davidson answer which was changed quickly. Some of the
responses are shown below.
I decided to award first place Bob Siegfried (Old Bob). Second place goes to
Judy Gauntt.
Judy is one of the smartest broads I know; she is not a pilot but no
stranger to pure, simple freakin' logic. Bob got the old VASI's and
everything else right. Judy was the only one to pick up the reflection off
the engine cowling - that's observation!
Now, the rest of the story. The co-pilot took this picture of my approach
one night to RWY 11 at Wonderboom airport (FAWB) in Pretoria in 2001 in a
C172, when I was visiting family and had to hang out a bit at my old
watering hole. The turbulence was so bad that we decided to return to the
airport. Airwork was not that necessary - we were supposed to enjoy the
event. Camera used: Canon Digital Powershot S110.
We took four pictures in sequence, which you can view here:
On lefthand downwind. The airport with the runway lights is to the left
(little above) center part of the screen.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0063_IMG.JPG
On finals. The picture you saw before.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0064_IMG.JPG
Over the threshold.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0065_IMG.JPG
Greasing it onto the runway.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0066_IMG.JPG
Thank you all for participating. I hope everybody enjoyed it as much as I
did.
Nico
SOME RESPONSES:
Art La Combe:
It's a . . . ahhhhh . . . . a . . . Oh! I know.
Looking out of a plane from the pilots
point of view during a windshear. The lights
are obviously the landing approach lights. It's
at dusk.
Regards . . .
Captain Midnight
Judy Gauntt:
Hi Nico,
My 2-second guess is that it's an airplane coming in to land - those are the
runway lights - just look a little strange!
Anyway, I can see the engine cowling on the left and I think I'm right.
Let me know!
BTW it's a remote airport somewhere.
Judy
Art White:
I know...I know, but it might not be fair to the others who don't "indulge"
as we do. I'm sure it was one of your "better" approaches, right?
Art
Steve Stone:
it looks to me like a picture taken out the widshield of a landing airplane
Steve
Bob Siegfried:
Good Evening Nico,
Looks like runway end and side lighting along with an older style VASI seen
through a bit of turbulence or taken by a camera using too long an
exposure.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: What is this?
> Folks, take a look at this picture and see if you can tell what it is and
> what is happening.
>
> I cannot offer you a prize, except to let everyone know you have a keen
> sense of observation. There are certain things that no one except I would
> know, but see how close you can get.
>
> http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0064_IMG.JPG
>
> Thanks
> Nico
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
In a message dated 6/30/2005 6:04:12 PM Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Thanks folks, we had quite a response to this question. Everybody was
> right,
> except the Harley Davidson answer which was changed quickly. Some of the
> responses are shown below.
Although we knew that in fact it was not a christmas tree on the back of a
Harley, we felt that a little levity might be welcome with such a light hearted
game. We regret any ill feelings felt by our attempt at humor.
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
Rob,
I think Nico was responding to your humour in good, somewhat typical, dry
South African humour. I am sure he didn't mean any ill feelings to you.
Besides, not a Harley, man. A Kawasaki 1300 would have been a better guess.
:-)
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RRamm52(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: What is this? Results
>
> In a message dated 6/30/2005 6:04:12 PM Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>> Thanks folks, we had quite a response to this question. Everybody was
>> right,
>> except the Harley Davidson answer which was changed quickly. Some of the
>> responses are shown below.
>
> Although we knew that in fact it was not a christmas tree on the back of a
> Harley, we felt that a little levity might be welcome with such a light
> hearted
> game. We regret any ill feelings felt by our attempt at humor.
> Rob
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
In a message dated 6/30/2005 9:26:54 PM Central Standard Time,
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net writes:
> Rob,
>
> I think Nico was responding to your humour in good, somewhat typical, dry
> South African humour. I am sure he didn't mean any ill feelings to you.
> Besides, not a Harley, man. A Kawasaki 1300 would have been a better guess.
> :-)
>
> Andrew.
Nothing shakes quite like an old harley and still runs, Andrew....Thanks.
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
Ill feelings? Nope. Rob, your humor was well received and appreciated. You
were upstaged, however, by bilbo who suggested that he sees that only after
10 or so beers but didn't think others would see it as well. Andrew's right,
the last thing one should assume about me is ill feelings. :-)
This light-hearted competition was my attempt at some fun in otherwise too
busy lives. I have compiled another one and will publish it once it is
ready. It won't be as easy as this one, though, but I hope it will be as
entertaining. I wish I could offer the winners a prize: perhaps a couple of
beers and then a ride on a Harley snapping christmas trees.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <RRamm52(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: What is this? Results
>
> In a message dated 6/30/2005 6:04:12 PM Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> > Thanks folks, we had quite a response to this question. Everybody was
> > right,
> > except the Harley Davidson answer which was changed quickly. Some of the
> > responses are shown below.
>
> Although we knew that in fact it was not a christmas tree on the back of a
> Harley, we felt that a little levity might be welcome with such a light
hearted
> game. We regret any ill feelings felt by our attempt at humor.
> Rob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
Good! Can't wait for the next one....
Rob
In a message dated 7/1/2005 12:40:17 AM Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Ill feelings? Nope. Rob, your humor was well received and appreciated. You
> were upstaged, however, by bilbo who suggested that he sees that only after
> 10 or so beers but didn't think others would see it as well. Andrew's right,
> the last thing one should assume about me is ill feelings. :-)
>
> This light-hearted competition was my attempt at some fun in otherwise too
> busy lives. I have compiled another one and will publish it once it is
> ready. It won't be as easy as this one, though, but I hope it will be as
> entertaining. I wish I could offer the winners a prize: perhaps a couple of
> beers and then a ride on a Harley snapping christmas trees.
>
> Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
| From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net> |
On 6/30/05 9:24 PM, "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
wrote:
> I think Nico was responding to your humour in good, somewhat typical, dry
> South African humour. I am sure he didn't mean any ill feelings to you.
> Besides, not a Harley, man. A Kawasaki 1300 would have been a better guess.
> :-)
>
> Andrew.
No, a K1300 would be too smooth a ride!
--
Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
>> Besides, not a Harley, man. A Kawasaki 1300 would have been a better
>> guess.
> No, a K1300 would be too smooth a ride!
Yep, you're right. Silly me...
:-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
And I know longer ride harleys! Got a jet smooth '04 Goldwing now...
Rob
In a message dated 7/1/2005 11:23:01 AM Central Standard Time,
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net writes:
> >>Besides, not a Harley, man. A Kawasaki 1300 would have been a better
> >>guess.
>
> >No, a K1300 would be too smooth a ride!
>
> Yep, you're right. Silly me...
>
> :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this? Results |
Yeah, the consistent thumping gets to you after a while. Especially at our
age.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RRamm52(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: What is this? Results
>
> And I know longer ride harleys! Got a jet smooth '04 Goldwing now...
> Rob
>
> In a message dated 7/1/2005 11:23:01 AM Central Standard Time,
> andrew.bridget(at)telus.net writes:
> > >>Besides, not a Harley, man. A Kawasaki 1300 would have been a better
> > >>guess.
> >
> > >No, a K1300 would be too smooth a ride!
> >
> > Yep, you're right. Silly me...
> >
> > :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Coons" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net> |
| Subject: | Larry Workal & Scott Dickey |
Larry & Scott,
I'd like to chat with both of you regarding your airplanes. Will you please
send me an email on how to reach you?
Thank You,
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Commander Incident |
Folks,
I was once interested in purchasing this plane and thought this might be of interest
to everyone although it happened nearly five years ago.
If I were a pax on that plane, I would have personally assaulted the pilot upon
landing at FACT for not choosing Fisantekraal while the other engine was still
running. What say you all?
Thanks
Nico
Picture of ZS-RIL: http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/Aero%20Commanders/ZS-RIL/
SOUTH AFRICAN CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY INCIDENT REPORT - EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Date of Incident 6 December 2000 Time of Incident 0945Z
Aircraft Registration ZS-RIL
Type of Aircraft Aero Commander 680FL
Pilot-in-command: License Type Commercial License
Pilot-in-command: Flying Experience Total Flying Hours 380
Total Hours on Type: 5.6
Type of Operation: Private
Last point of departure: FAGM (Rand Airport)
Next point of intended landing: FACT (Cape Town International Airport)
Location of the incident: site with reference to easily defined geographical points
(plus GPS readings if possible) Runway 19 FACT
Meteorological Information: CAVOK
Number of people on board: 1+5
No. of people injured: Nil, No. of people killed: Nil
Synopsis:
The pilot was on a private flight from FAGM to FACT with five passengers on board.
The aircraft was refueled to capacity on 5 December 2000 with a total fuel
quantity of 640 liters of Avgas 100LL. The aircraft departed FAGM at 0545 Z on
6 December 2000.
At 0942Z the pilot reported that they were low on fuel and that the left-hand engine
had failed. At that stage the aircraft was approximately 28 nm from FACT
and 15 nm from FAFK (Fisantekraal). The ATC suggested to the pilot to divert
to Fisantekraal aerodrome. The pilot did, however, elect to continue to FACT due
to the fact that he was unfamiliar with FAFK and that FACT had emergency facilities,
if required.
At approximately 0955Z, 10 minutes after the left-hand engine failed, the pilot
reported that the right-hand engine had also failed. At that stage the aircraft
was approximately 5 nm to the North East of FACT. The pilot continued with
a glide approach and landed safely at 0959Z on runway 19 at FACT. The aircraft
was towed to a nearby AMO and inspected.
It was noted that both sides of the fuselage under wing area had green vertical
run marks and that the left-hand fuel tank dust-cover was not fitted and the
opening had been taped closed with duct tape. A total of seven liters of fuel
was then drained from the aircraft after which all tanks were refueled to capacity
with 560 liters in the center tank and 110 liters in each outboard tank giving
a total fuel capacity of 780 liters (205 U.S. Gal.). Both engines were subsequently
ground run and found to operate normally.
On 9 December 2000 another 19 liters of Avgas was uplifted before the aircraft
was flown back to FAGM with no further incident .
Probable Cause:
The aircraft departed FAGM with insufficient fuel onboard for the flight to FACT.
This caused depletion of the aircraft's fuel supply, which resulted in engine
failure and a forced landing at Cape Town International Airport. If the tanks
were indeed filled to capacity and a proper pre-flight inspection had been
carried out prior to the flight, approximately 54 U.S. Gal. should still have
been available at the time that engine failure occurred, even at the reduced maximum
fuel tank capacity of 206 U.S. Gal.
It is therefore very likely that a proper pre-flight inspection was not carried
out prior to the flight and that the aircraft's fuel tanks were not filled to
capacity. Another possibility is that the aircraft's tanks were indeed filled
to capacity and that fuel was vented overboard, through the left-hand tank cap,
which had only been taped over and was not fitted with a proper lid.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | HAPPY 4TH TO ALL |
HI KIDS.
Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL |
HI DAD.
We're still working over here (well some of us aren't!) and keeping the World
turning. Don't rush back - we can manage.
Hope you All have a Great Day. Just don't throw your tea into cold salt water -
OK!!!
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
UK CommanderLand Rep.
High Wycombe, England
"Live life on the edge - if you don't take up too much space"
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
|
| HI KIDS.
|
| Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
| continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
|
| PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | HAPPY 4TH TO ALL |
amen!
>From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
>Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:28:30 EDT
>
>
>HI KIDS.
>
> Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made
>and
>continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
>
>PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: No more exercise for me! |
Message
This will scare me straight to whiskey...
What do these women think is going to happen to all this extra body when they stop
weight training??? See below!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Coons" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net> |
| Subject: | Jim Bob sign me up for the September Fly-in |
Capt. Jim Bob,
Do you have a registration pack for the September Fly-in?
Please send me one.
Thank You,
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/04/05 |
The last time I flew my flap indicator seemed to be eratic and sticking -never
going completely down. It is a 500B. Has anyone had this experience and know
what the problem might or likely be.
dan farmer
6369U
Commander-List Digest Server wrote:
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:29 AM - HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (YOURTCFG(at)aol.com)
2. 09:36 AM - Re: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (Barry Collman)
3. 10:29 AM - Re: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (MASON Chevaillier)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
HI KIDS.
Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
From: "Barry Collman"
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
HI DAD.
We're still working over here (well some of us aren't!) and keeping the World
turning. Don't rush back - we can manage.
Hope you All have a Great Day. Just don't throw your tea into cold salt water -
OK!!!
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
UK CommanderLand Rep.
High Wycombe, England
"Live life on the edge - if you don't take up too much space"
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
|
| HI KIDS.
|
| Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
| continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
|
| PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
From: "MASON Chevaillier"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
amen!
>From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
>Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:28:30 EDT
>
>
>HI KIDS.
>
> Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made
>and
>continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
>
>PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/04/05 |
Dan,
Just my guess, check for corrosion on the wiring plugs.
Jim A
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan
Farmer
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/04/05
The last time I flew my flap indicator seemed to be eratic and
sticking -never going completely down. It is a 500B. Has anyone had this
experience and know what the problem might or likely be.
dan farmer
6369U
Commander-List Digest Server wrote:
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-07
-04.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-07
-04.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 07/04/05: 3
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:29 AM - HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (YOURTCFG(at)aol.com)
2. 09:36 AM - Re: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (Barry Collman)
3. 10:29 AM - Re: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (MASON Chevaillier)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
HI KIDS.
Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: "Barry Collman"
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
HI DAD.
We're still working over here (well some of us aren't!) and keeping the
World
turning. Don't rush back - we can manage.
Hope you All have a Great Day. Just don't throw your tea into cold salt
water -
OK!!!
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
UK CommanderLand Rep.
High Wycombe, England
"Live life on the edge - if you don't take up too much space"
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
|
| HI KIDS.
|
| Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
| continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
|
| PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
From: "MASON Chevaillier"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
amen!
>From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
>Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:28:30 EDT
>
>
>HI KIDS.
>
> Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made
>and
>continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
>
>PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/04/05 |
Dan;
Sometimes on my 560E, mine will stick or hang-up, I can tap the gage and it
will indicate correctly. I'm not sure of the problem as other times it
works OK, but I suspect the gage. It only sticks in the going down
position.
Don
> [Original Message]
> From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Date: 7/5/2005 9:54:43 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/04/05
>
>
> The last time I flew my flap indicator seemed to be eratic and sticking
-never going completely down. It is a 500B. Has anyone had this
experience and know what the problem might or likely be.
>
> dan farmer
> 6369U
>
> Commander-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-07
-04.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-07
-04.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 07/04/05: 3
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 09:29 AM - HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (YOURTCFG(at)aol.com)
> 2. 09:36 AM - Re: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (Barry Collman)
> 3. 10:29 AM - Re: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (MASON Chevaillier)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
>
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
> continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
>
> PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Barry Collman"
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
>
>
> HI DAD.
>
> We're still working over here (well some of us aren't!) and keeping the
World
> turning. Don't rush back - we can manage.
>
> Hope you All have a Great Day. Just don't throw your tea into cold salt
water -
>
> OK!!!
>
> Best Regards,
> Barry Collman
> UK CommanderLand Rep.
> High Wycombe, England
> "Live life on the edge - if you don't take up too much space"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
>
>
> |
> | HI KIDS.
> |
> | Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
> | continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
> |
> | PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "MASON Chevaillier"
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
>
>
> amen!
>
> >From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
> >Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:28:30 EDT
> >
> >
> >HI KIDS.
> >
> > Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made
> >and
> >continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
> >
> >PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
> >
> >
>
>
> --
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/04/05 |
My flap indicate on my 500S does the same thing.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Farmer
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/04/05
The last time I flew my flap indicator seemed to be eratic and sticking
-never going completely down. It is a 500B. Has anyone had this
experience and know what the problem might or likely be.
dan farmer
6369U
Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.200
5-07-04.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.200
5-07-04.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 07/04/05: 3
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:29 AM - HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (YOURTCFG(at)aol.com)
2. 09:36 AM - Re: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (Barry Collman)
3. 10:29 AM - Re: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL (MASON Chevaillier)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
HI KIDS.
Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: "Barry Collman"
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
HI DAD.
We're still working over here (well some of us aren't!) and keeping the
World
turning. Don't rush back - we can manage.
Hope you All have a Great Day. Just don't throw your tea into cold salt
water -
OK!!!
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
UK CommanderLand Rep.
High Wycombe, England
"Live life on the edge - if you don't take up too much space"
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
|
| HI KIDS.
|
| Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made and
| continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
|
| PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
From: "MASON Chevaillier"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
amen!
>From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY 4TH TO ALL
>Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:28:30 EDT
>
>
>HI KIDS.
>
> Happy 4th!! Let's all remember the service men & women who made
>and
>continue to make our great county FREE!! Praise God!! jb
>
>PS anybody "Commandering" anywhere fun this weekend??
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Help, I need an angle flight |
TCFG,
I am looking for a Twin Commander to help me move my parents from Long
Island, KISP to KABQ. 1600NM.
Moving them by airline will not work. The other choice is Motor Home or
Train.
The story is long and not for this discussion group. Please contact me
directly by email Tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net
or my cell phone 970-946-7472.
We are willing to pay fuel or costs.
Thank you in advance.
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Help, I need an angle flight |
th, let me know if i can help. mason
>From: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "Commander-List"
>Subject: Commander-List: Help, I need an angle flight
>Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:50:43 -0600
>
>
>
>TCFG,
>I am looking for a Twin Commander to help me move my parents from Long
>Island, KISP to KABQ. 1600NM.
>
>Moving them by airline will not work. The other choice is Motor Home or
>Train.
>
>The story is long and not for this discussion group. Please contact me
>directly by email Tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net
>
>or my cell phone 970-946-7472.
>
>We are willing to pay fuel or costs.
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>Tylor Hall
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
A year or so ago ther was a 560F with an STEC-50 autopilot installed on a one time
337 for sale.
If anyone knows of a 560F with an STEC autopilot installed and can get me the N
number or serial# I sure would be gratefull.
My FSDO has agreed to approve the installation on mine if I can find a previous
approval somewhere.
Phil
Phil Stubbs
br549phil(at)mindspring.com
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Phil,
According to www.s-tec.com, the S-Tec 40 and 50 are both approved for the
560E.
I have seen them in 500A, B, U, & S, but I do not know the N numbers, but
they are on the list.
I see your problem. They left the 560F and 680F off of the list. It
includes the 680VTW, 681, 690, A&B. Works on every thing smaller and
bigger. FAA has no logic and he will not take responsibility. Good Luck.
Tylor Hall
Subject: Commander-List: stec/337
A year or so ago ther was a 560F with an STEC-50 autopilot installed on a
one time 337 for sale.
If anyone knows of a 560F with an STEC autopilot installed and can get me
the N number or serial# I sure would be gratefull.
My FSDO has agreed to approve the installation on mine if I can find a
previous approval somewhere.
Phil
Phil Stubbs
br549phil(at)mindspring.com
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Jim Bob sign me up for the September Fly-in |
In a message dated 7/5/2005 6:10:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net writes:
Please send me one.
Will Do!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
"Frits Abbing"
| Subject: | Help, I need an angle flight |
Thank you all for your support. There have been several generous offers.
I am pursuing one and need to work out the details.
I will post a great day in commander land when it happens.
Thank you all.
Tylor Hall
What time frame? when planned?
I have a 680 available for this situation.
Frits Abbing
N812SC
--- MASON Chevaillier wrote:
> Chevaillier"
>
> th, let me know if i can help. mason
>
> >From: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
> >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: "Commander-List"
> >Subject: Commander-List: Help, I need an angle
> flight
> >Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:50:43 -0600
> >
> >
> >
> >TCFG,
> >I am looking for a Twin Commander to help me move
> my parents from Long
> >Island, KISP to KABQ. 1600NM.
> >
> >Moving them by airline will not work. The other
> choice is Motor Home or
> >Train.
> >
> >The story is long and not for this discussion
> group. Please contact me
> >directly by email Tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net
> >
> >or my cell phone 970-946-7472.
> >
> >We are willing to pay fuel or costs.
> >
> >Thank you in advance.
> >
> >Tylor Hall
> >
> >
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Congratulations Richard! |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Folks,
It is not often these days that a Bath-tub Commander features in the
Australian Aviation Press.
Richard's 680E was snapped on a rare trip outside the hangar on a sunny
April morning and features in the latest issue (#7) of "Aero" magazine. Aero
is an excellent quarterly with a lot of colour shots.
The photo clearly illustrated the painstaking work that has occurred with
this aircraft, particularly with the undercarriage, engine and window
repairs.
Please join me in congratulating Richard on gaining this exposure and the
ongoing great progress he has achieved with VH-CAX.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Hi Daniel,
Hope life in your corner is as good as possible.
I wonder if you still have your Commander 560 for sale?
I am in the position now to make a $12,500 offer on it.
Please let me know your thoughts and if the aircraft is still able to be
ferried.
Many thanks.
Cheers
Russell
On 5/2/05 2:33 AM, "Daniel Stewart" wrote:
>
> lets say 8K for the lot (blades, hubs and clamps), plus shipping. They are
> disassembled.
>
> Dan
>
> "Matthew J. Hawkins" wrote:
>
> Dan-
>
> Thanks for the info. If your plane sells, what would you want for the 6
> blades and hubs?
>
> Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
> Stewart
> To: Matthew J. Hawkins
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Props
>
>
> -->
>
>
> Yes, my 6 older blades clamps and hubs may have a recurring AD
> inspection on them. They are tagged "servicable".
>
> Regards, Dan
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Congratulations Richard! |
Richard,
You should post a photo on the web site so we all could see it.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/
Tylor Hall
Subject: Commander-List: Congratulations Richard!
G'day Folks,
It is not often these days that a Bath-tub Commander features in the
Australian Aviation Press.
Richard's 680E was snapped on a rare trip outside the hangar on a sunny
April morning and features in the latest issue (#7) of "Aero" magazine. Aero
is an excellent quarterly with a lot of colour shots.
The photo clearly illustrated the painstaking work that has occurred with
this aircraft, particularly with the undercarriage, engine and window
repairs.
Please join me in congratulating Richard on gaining this exposure and the
ongoing great progress he has achieved with VH-CAX.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports |
I just got the March 1956 pilot report on the 560A and the October 1963 pilot
report on the 680FL Grand Commander if anyone is interested.
Thanks,
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports |
Hi Bert,
Yes please, count me in!
Sincere Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports
|
| I just got the March 1956 pilot report on the 560A and the October 1963 pilot
| report on the 680FL Grand Commander if anyone is interested.
|
| Thanks,
|
| Bert
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Sather" <sather(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports |
Bert
I would really appreciate a copy for my files.
Thank You
Bobby Sather
Sather(at)charter.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports
I just got the March 1956 pilot report on the 560A and the October 1963
pilot
report on the 680FL Grand Commander if anyone is interested.
Thanks,
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports |
Send it to me too, Bert.
Thanks
Nico
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports
>
> I just got the March 1956 pilot report on the 560A and the October 1963
pilot
> report on the 680FL Grand Commander if anyone is interested.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Cheers to all in Commanderland..!!
Final plans for our trip to Oshkosh are coming together. We will be
climbing aboard N6253X on Sunday morning July 24th for a planned first day
destination of Souix Falls, SD... a little over 6 hours at 190 kts true.
Then we'll have a 2 hour flight to OSH on Monday morning to arrive one day
before the offical opening of the big event. We've got two flying
architects, 1 almost flying architect, and 1 almost flying building
contractor...should be fun.
Sure would like to hook up with some other Commanders heading to the
"biggest airshow in the world". Dennis Polito, let me know how to hook up
with Slim for a good parking space.
OSHKOSH here we come...yahoooo..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KenWHyde(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports |
Bert,
I too would appreciate a copy of the reports.
Thanks,
Ken Hyde
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports |
Bert,
An emailed copy would be much appreciated.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 02:26 12/07/2005, you wrote:
>
>I just got the March 1956 pilot report on the 560A and the October 1963 pilot
>report on the 680FL Grand Commander if anyone is interested.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bert
>
>
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and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
Remember that Dick Maccoon has offered his both at Oshkosh as a "gathering
place" jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck(at)borland.com> |
It's a good thing you have 8 eyeballs onboard - you will have uses for
all of them as you approach OSH. It gets very busy there and inevitably
someone doesn't follow directions. When Chris Wall, another friend and
I took N811D in two years ago it was a bit of a zoo. "Tan Commander
land long runway 27 - I've got two other guys landing short and mid on
27 behind you."
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA [mailto:rcdettmer(at)charter.net]
Subject: Commander-List: Oshkosh
Cheers to all in Commanderland..!!
Final plans for our trip to Oshkosh are coming together. We will be
climbing aboard N6253X on Sunday morning July 24th for a planned first
day
destination of Souix Falls, SD... a little over 6 hours at 190 kts true.
Then we'll have a 2 hour flight to OSH on Monday morning to arrive one
day
before the offical opening of the big event. We've got two flying
architects, 1 almost flying architect, and 1 almost flying building
contractor...should be fun.
Sure would like to hook up with some other Commanders heading to the
"biggest airshow in the world". Dennis Polito, let me know how to hook
up
with Slim for a good parking space.
OSHKOSH here we come...yahoooo..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com> |
what is a both? mason
>From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:15:46 EDT
>
>
>Remember that Dick Maccoon has offered his both at Oshkosh as a "gathering
>place" jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I guess he meant 'booth'
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
>
> what is a both? mason
>
> >From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oshkosh
> >Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:15:46 EDT
> >
> >
> >Remember that Dick Maccoon has offered his both at Oshkosh as a
"gathering
> >place" jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports |
Bert,
Add me to the list.
Thanks
Jim Addington
jtaddington(at)charter.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Grand Commander & 560A Pilot Reports
I just got the March 1956 pilot report on the 560A and the October 1963
pilot
report on the 680FL Grand Commander if anyone is interested.
Thanks,
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Yes...eight eyeballs will be helpful. My first flight into Oshkosh was as
co-pilot in a Martin 404 about 5 years ago (vintage 1952 transport, 45,000
lbs gross wt, with 20 passengers on board). Had to do a go-around on short
final to runway 27...that was fun. My last trip into OSH was in my
Commander 3 years ago with the family...we camped under the wing in the
Contemporary Classic area, parked next to Runway 36...hope we can do that
again.
Dennis P., thanks for the info on Slim...I will try to give you a call this
afternoon.
Randy D.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
Kucheck
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oshkosh
It's a good thing you have 8 eyeballs onboard - you will have uses for
all of them as you approach OSH. It gets very busy there and inevitably
someone doesn't follow directions. When Chris Wall, another friend and
I took N811D in two years ago it was a bit of a zoo. "Tan Commander
land long runway 27 - I've got two other guys landing short and mid on
27 behind you."
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA [mailto:rcdettmer(at)charter.net]
Subject: Commander-List: Oshkosh
Cheers to all in Commanderland..!!
Final plans for our trip to Oshkosh are coming together. We will be
climbing aboard N6253X on Sunday morning July 24th for a planned first
day
destination of Souix Falls, SD... a little over 6 hours at 190 kts true.
Then we'll have a 2 hour flight to OSH on Monday morning to arrive one
day
before the offical opening of the big event. We've got two flying
architects, 1 almost flying architect, and 1 almost flying building
contractor...should be fun.
Sure would like to hook up with some other Commanders heading to the
"biggest airshow in the world". Dennis Polito, let me know how to hook
up
with Slim for a good parking space.
OSHKOSH here we come...yahoooo..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
Gents,
After flying N680RR for almost 700 hours I have gone through five Simmonds fuel
pumps.
One kept going dead rich and would not adjust so it was rebuilt. About ten hours
after being rebuilt it developed an internal leak which pumped the gas back
into the crankcase and overfilled the oil sump tank. In flight there was no
way of knowing what was going on until the oil pressure went low, and I strongly
suspect that this is why the crankshaft and rod bearings had abnormal wear
at over haul time. Another one wore to the point that it was impossible to get
the proper mixture settings on it. Two pumps with about 400 hours have suddenly
developed leaks (not just drips) around the shaft that goes in the side of
the pump, for the idle cut off.
The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre.
Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal?
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Finished restoration |
Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
friends anyway.
I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
cheers
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Finished restoration |
Hey Chris,
Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache we
called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft spot
in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings back
great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
friends anyway.
I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
cheers
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Finished restoration |
As the proud owner of a 1957 Apache 150 in addition to a 1970 500S I can
truly say what a magnificent restoration on a truly classic airplane.
I, too, enjoy the airmanship of flying the "potato" as a respite from
flying the "airliner" (500S). In fact this fri. I am leaving for a one
week flying adventure to Alaska from Michigan and am taking the Apache
instead of the Commander. Again, nice restoration.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Hey Chris,
Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache
we
called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft
spot
in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings
back
great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
friends anyway.
I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
cheers
Chris Schuermann
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
In a message dated 7/13/2005 9:02:28 PM Central Standard Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
Beautiful job, Chris! Very admirable....
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
In a message dated 13-Jul-05 17:18:17 Pacific Daylight Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre.
Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal?
Moe,
You are one of the few operators I know of running the IGSO-540 who flies a
bunch.
Who did your last overhauls? I sure hope it wasn't Central Cylinder.
What is your shutdown procedure, by the way? I hint I taught my 680-F
series clients was to turn the engines off via the mag switch instead of pulling
the mixtures to idle.
As heretical as that is, it does two things: Complies with an AD on certain
mag switches to test them every 10 hours and keeps fuel in the Simmonds so the
diaphragms don't dry out.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Hi Chris,
Truly a nice airplane, an honest workhorse with plentiful spares around the
world. It makes it special if it has so much of one's own sweat in it.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
> Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
> friends anyway.
> I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
> quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
> Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
> functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
> up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
> hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
> With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
> at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
>
> cheers
> Chris Schuermann
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Wow! Thanks for all the kind words from everyone. Guess Apache/Aztecs
are kinda like old girlfriends. Just about everyone has some fond
memories .... just some of us went on to marry them :-)
I've enjoyed the restoration process but am definitly ready to get back
to the flying stuff. I'm also still looking for the designer at Piper
who decided to build up the firewall around the engine mount and rivet
it in place so I can punch him in the nose!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Finished restoration |
I got my multi in N114DA, serial #14(they skipped 13) which is now at the
Air & Space annex at Dulles awaiting display. My instructer would load it
to gross on a summer day and shut down an engine and fly around on one for
an hour or so. His theory was that if you fly a 150 Apache under those
conditions you cold fly any twin safely.
> [Original Message]
> From: <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net>
> To:
> Date: 7/13/2005 10:27:27 PM
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
> As the proud owner of a 1957 Apache 150 in addition to a 1970 500S I can
> truly say what a magnificent restoration on a truly classic airplane.
> I, too, enjoy the airmanship of flying the "potato" as a respite from
> flying the "airliner" (500S). In fact this fri. I am leaving for a one
> week flying adventure to Alaska from Michigan and am taking the Apache
> instead of the Commander. Again, nice restoration.
> Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> Dettmer, AIA
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
>
> Hey Chris,
> Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache
> we
> called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft
> spot
> in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings
> back
> great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!!
>
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F/N6253X
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
> Schuermann
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
>
>
>
> Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
> friends anyway.
> I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
> quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
> Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
> functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
> up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
> hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
> With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
> at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
>
> cheers
> Chris Schuermann
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
Wing Commander Gordon,
Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate) who
overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps. For about the first 400 hours I used
the mag switches to shut off the engines rather than going to idle cut off.
I stopped doing this because one theory said that doing this was too hard on
the reduction gear attaching bolts. Since then the procedure has been fuel
shut off and mags off. After the engine stops, go to full rich, throttles
1/2 open, fuel boost for about 10 seconds, master switch off. As I
understand the system, this should keep everything wet. Thank you very much
for the suggestions, and if you (or anyone else) has further suggestions
please give them to me.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
> In a message dated 13-Jul-05 17:18:17 Pacific Daylight Time,
> moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
> The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre.
>
> Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal?
> Moe,
>
> You are one of the few operators I know of running the IGSO-540 who flies
a
> bunch.
>
> Who did your last overhauls? I sure hope it wasn't Central Cylinder.
>
> What is your shutdown procedure, by the way? I hint I taught my 680-F
> series clients was to turn the engines off via the mag switch instead of
pulling
> the mixtures to idle.
>
> As heretical as that is, it does two things: Complies with an AD on
certain
> mag switches to test them every 10 hours and keeps fuel in the Simmonds so
the
> diaphragms don't dry out.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Chris,
A thing of beauty is a joy forever! (except for my first wife of course).
Obviously, I don't know much about Apache/ Aztecs, but I thought that they
had Lycoming 0 320 engines like my 172 had. One of the guys at Hawthorne,
CA airport has one and it has the four cylinder engines with aftermarket
turbochargers. Which engines do you have, and what is the horsepower
rating?
Regards
Moe
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
> Wow! Thanks for all the kind words from everyone. Guess Apache/Aztecs
> are kinda like old girlfriends. Just about everyone has some fond
> memories .... just some of us went on to marry them :-)
>
> I've enjoyed the restoration process but am definitly ready to get back
> to the flying stuff. I'm also still looking for the designer at Piper
> who decided to build up the firewall around the engine mount and rivet
> it in place so I can punch him in the nose!
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
In a message dated 14-Jul-05 07:23:23 Pacific Daylight Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate) who
overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps.
>
>
Moe,
That's my concern. I was hoping (against hope) that your overhauls had been
done by someone who was not really equipped to do the job.
Maybe you should give Central a call and ask why they think your pumps are
not lasting forever. I'd be interested in what their answer is.
I know Captain Sprayberry and Ricardo Otoya are IGSO-540 operators. Anyone
else on this net?
I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all
systems, that I've heard.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | flap position transmitter |
I am in need of a flap position indicator (transmitter) part # 8TJ9PAV for my 500B.
it mounts on the support bracket for the flap drive cylinder. If anyone
knows of one I would be willing to buy it. (if I can afford it). Or does anyone
know where mine might be repaired.
dan farmer
6369U
Commander-List Digest Server wrote:
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Total Messages Posted Wed 07/13/05: 6
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:17 PM - Simmonds Fuel Pumps (Moe)
2. 06:51 PM - Finished restoration (Chris Schuermann)
3. 06:59 PM - Re: Finished restoration (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
4. 07:27 PM - Re: Finished restoration ()
5. 07:33 PM - Re: Finished restoration (RRamm52(at)cs.com)
6. 08:03 PM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (CloudCraft(at)aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: "Moe"
Subject: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
Gents,
After flying N680RR for almost 700 hours I have gone through five Simmonds fuel
pumps.
One kept going dead rich and would not adjust so it was rebuilt. About ten hours
after being rebuilt it developed an internal leak which pumped the gas back
into the crankcase and overfilled the oil sump tank. In flight there was no
way of knowing what was going on until the oil pressure went low, and I strongly
suspect that this is why the crankshaft and rod bearings had abnormal wear
at over haul time. Another one wore to the point that it was impossible to get
the proper mixture settings on it. Two pumps with about 400 hours have suddenly
developed leaks (not just drips) around the shaft that goes in the side of
the pump, for the idle cut off.
The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre.
Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal?
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
From: Chris Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
friends anyway.
I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
cheers
Chris Schuermann
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Hey Chris,
Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache we
called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft spot
in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings back
great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
friends anyway.
I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
cheers
Chris Schuermann
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
From:
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration
As the proud owner of a 1957 Apache 150 in addition to a 1970 500S I can
truly say what a magnificent restoration on a truly classic airplane.
I, too, enjoy the airmanship of flying the "potato" as a respite from
flying the "airliner" (500S). In fact this fri. I am leaving for a one
week flying adventure to Alaska from Michigan and am taking the Apache
instead of the Commander. Again, nice restoration.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Hey Chris,
Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache
we
called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft
spot
in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings
back
great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
friends anyway.
I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
cheers
Chris Schuermann
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
From: RRamm52(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
In a message dated 7/13/2005 9:02:28 PM Central Standard Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
Beautiful job, Chris! Very admirable....
Rob
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
In a message dated 13-Jul-05 17:18:17 Pacific Daylight Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre.
Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal?
Moe,
You are one of the few operators I know of running the IGSO-540 who flies a
bunch.
Who did your last overhauls? I sure hope it wasn't Central Cylinder.
What is your shutdown procedure, by the way? I hint I taught my 680-F
series clients was to turn the engines off via the mag switch instead of pulling
the mixtures to idle.
As heretical as that is, it does two things: Complies with an AD on certain
mag switches to test them every 10 hours and keeps fuel in the Simmonds so the
diaphragms don't dry out.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Chris;
I have never flown the Aztec, but have always heard good things about it.
I am a firm believer in the axiom, 'Management of Time' you have to have
something of your self in it to truly appreciate it. Know that is true of
my Commander.
A fine looking bird!
Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
> >
> >
> > Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
> > friends anyway.
> > I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
> > quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
> > Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
> > functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
> > up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
> > hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
> > With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
> > at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
> >
> > cheers
> > Chris Schuermann
> >
> >
>
>
> --
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Moe wrote:
> Obviously, I don't know much about Apache/ Aztecs, but I thought that they
> had Lycoming 0 320 engines like my 172 had.
Moe,
The PA-23 line is really two different airplanes. The Apache is a
slightly smaller airplane, has an elevator, and uses 150/160hp engines.
The Aztec (also a PA-23 oddly) is a bit larger, has a stabilator, and
uses 250/260hp 540 lycoming engines. My bird is a bit of an oddity. In
the early/mid 60's, Piper had stopped building Apaches and transitioned
to the Aztec. As near as I can tell, they decided to leverage the brand
loyalty of the Apache name and came out with the "Apache 235". It was
simply an Aztec with low compression cylinders. (and yes, early Aztecs
had the short round nose).
Some Apaches have had the "Geronimo conversion" done which makes them
difficult to tell from an Aztec if you don't know them well. They put a
longer nose, squared up the tail feathers, and added 180hp O-360
engines. Some were even turbocharged. Pretty neat package.
During my engine overhauls, we upgraded to new high-compression
cylinder/piston assemblies, cams, etc which basicly creates a carburated
equivilant of a 290hp IO-540 (but with straight stacks and augementor
tubes :-)
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Digest Truncation Fixed!! |
Dear Listers,
I finally figured out today what was causing the occasional
truncation of the daily List Digest emails. Seems that every once in
a while a message would contain a single "." (period) on line all by
itself. The mailers would see this and assume that this was the
universal emailer signal for "end of message", and consequently
wouldn't process any of the rest of the Digest message.
I've put in a filter today to remove any of these sequences so we
should be back in business on the Digests.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray_611(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
Moe:
I have just flown a little over 400 Hrs. so I guess I am about due for some
trouble, Hope not. The only trouble I have had is one mixture shaft
corroded and couldn't shut down the Engine, If I had a can of Corrosion X on
board it would have fixed the problem, But I had to do it the hard way send
it to Central Cylinder for repair, was down three days in CVG, and a total
of $800 I got on my way. I have been shutting down with the Mixtures and
then putting them full rich.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
> In a message dated 14-Jul-05 07:23:23 Pacific Daylight Time,
> moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
> Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate)
> who
> overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps.
>>
>>
> Moe,
>
> That's my concern. I was hoping (against hope) that your overhauls had
> been
> done by someone who was not really equipped to do the job.
>
> Maybe you should give Central a call and ask why they think your pumps are
> not lasting forever. I'd be interested in what their answer is.
>
> I know Captain Sprayberry and Ricardo Otoya are IGSO-540 operators.
> Anyone
> else on this net?
>
> I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all
> systems, that I've heard.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | flap position transmitter |
Dan,
You might try Dallas Air Salvage 1 800 336 6399 they had two 500B's
You might call Central Air, they sure helped me a lot.
Jim A
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan
Farmer
Subject: Commander-List: flap position transmitter
I am in need of a flap position indicator (transmitter) part # 8TJ9PAV for
my 500B. it mounts on the support bracket for the flap drive cylinder. If
anyone knows of one I would be willing to buy it. (if I can afford it). Or
does anyone know where mine might be repaired.
dan farmer
6369U
Commander-List Digest Server wrote:
*
==================================================
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HTML Version:
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-13.txt
================================================
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================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 07/13/05: 6
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:17 PM - Simmonds Fuel Pumps (Moe)
2. 06:51 PM - Finished restoration (Chris Schuermann)
3. 06:59 PM - Re: Finished restoration (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
4. 07:27 PM - Re: Finished restoration ()
5. 07:33 PM - Re: Finished restoration (RRamm52(at)cs.com)
6. 08:03 PM - Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps (CloudCraft(at)aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: "Moe"
Subject: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
Gents,
After flying N680RR for almost 700 hours I have gone through five Simmonds
fuel
pumps.
One kept going dead rich and would not adjust so it was rebuilt. About ten
hours
after being rebuilt it developed an internal leak which pumped the gas back
into the crankcase and overfilled the oil sump tank. In flight there was no
way of knowing what was going on until the oil pressure went low, and I
strongly
suspect that this is why the crankshaft and rod bearings had abnormal wear
at over haul time. Another one wore to the point that it was impossible to
get
the proper mixture settings on it. Two pumps with about 400 hours have
suddenly
developed leaks (not just drips) around the shaft that goes in the side of
the pump, for the idle cut off.
The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre.
Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal?
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: Chris Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
friends anyway.
I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
cheers
Chris Schuermann
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Hey Chris,
Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache we
called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft spot
in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings back
great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
friends anyway.
I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
cheers
Chris Schuermann
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
From:
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration
As the proud owner of a 1957 Apache 150 in addition to a 1970 500S I can
truly say what a magnificent restoration on a truly classic airplane.
I, too, enjoy the airmanship of flying the "potato" as a respite from
flying the "airliner" (500S). In fact this fri. I am leaving for a one
week flying adventure to Alaska from Michigan and am taking the Apache
instead of the Commander. Again, nice restoration.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Hey Chris,
Beautiful airplane..!! I have alot of time in a wonderful old Apache
we
called the "potato"...because it was "brown and round". I have a soft
spot
in my heart for that old plane, and your beautiful restoration brings
back
great memories. You did a gorgeous job...congratulations..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
friends anyway.
I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
cheers
Chris Schuermann
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
From: RRamm52(at)cs.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
In a message dated 7/13/2005 9:02:28 PM Central Standard Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
Beautiful job, Chris! Very admirable....
Rob
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
In a message dated 13-Jul-05 17:18:17 Pacific Daylight Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
The down time is out of hand, and the overhaul costs are bizarre.
Am I the only one with this problem, or is this normal?
Moe,
You are one of the few operators I know of running the IGSO-540 who flies a
bunch.
Who did your last overhauls? I sure hope it wasn't Central Cylinder.
What is your shutdown procedure, by the way? I hint I taught my 680-F
series clients was to turn the engines off via the mag switch instead of
pulling
the mixtures to idle.
As heretical as that is, it does two things: Complies with an AD on certain
mag switches to test them every 10 hours and keeps fuel in the Simmonds so
the
diaphragms don't dry out.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
I can say from experience that they land REAL smooth with the gear
retracted. A National Airlines captain and I did that in N1700U about 30
years ago.
There are those who have, those who will, and those who will again.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
> Chris;
>
> I have never flown the Aztec, but have always heard good things about it.
> I am a firm believer in the axiom, 'Management of Time' you have to have
> something of your self in it to truly appreciate it. Know that is true of
> my Commander.
>
> A fine looking bird!
>
> Don
>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
>> To:
>> Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>>
>>
>
>> >
>> >
>> > Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
>> > friends anyway.
>> > I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's
>> > been
>> > quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
>> > Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
>> > functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
>> > up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
>> > hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
>> > With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
>> > at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
>> >
>> > cheers
>> > Chris Schuermann
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
| Subject: | Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
Hi friends:
I also have the same fuel units and it is overhauled by the same
people. I do not have so many problems really, but then again I only fly
about 10 hours a month.
I shut down with cut-off and then mags. I leave everything as is. In
the past I used to cut-off, then mixture all forward and throttle all
forward. I did experience more trouble then but perhaps it was because it
was time for overhauling. The problem was not severe, just adjustments.
I do clean all filters every 50 hours, and I mean all filters in tha
unit. Ussually if you are not treating them right, they will let you know,
with higher temperatures, shock cooling, etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
In a message dated 14-Jul-05 07:23:23 Pacific Daylight Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate) who
overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps.
>
>
Moe,
That's my concern. I was hoping (against hope) that your overhauls had been
done by someone who was not really equipped to do the job.
Maybe you should give Central a call and ask why they think your pumps are
not lasting forever. I'd be interested in what their answer is.
I know Captain Sprayberry and Ricardo Otoya are IGSO-540 operators. Anyone
else on this net?
I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all
systems, that I've heard.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
Caprain S. and Ricardo,
Thanx for the comments!
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
> Hi friends:
>
> I also have the same fuel units and it is overhauled by the same
> people. I do not have so many problems really, but then again I only fly
> about 10 hours a month.
>
> I shut down with cut-off and then mags. I leave everything as is.
In
> the past I used to cut-off, then mixture all forward and throttle all
> forward. I did experience more trouble then but perhaps it was because it
> was time for overhauling. The problem was not severe, just adjustments.
>
> I do clean all filters every 50 hours, and I mean all filters in
tha
> unit. Ussually if you are not treating them right, they will let you
know,
> with higher temperatures, shock cooling, etc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
>
> In a message dated 14-Jul-05 07:23:23 Pacific Daylight Time,
> moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
> Unfortunately Central Cylinders is the only company (that we can locate)
who
> overhauls the Simmonds 580 fuel pumps.
> >
> >
> Moe,
>
> That's my concern. I was hoping (against hope) that your overhauls had
been
>
> done by someone who was not really equipped to do the job.
>
> Maybe you should give Central a call and ask why they think your pumps are
> not lasting forever. I'd be interested in what their answer is.
>
> I know Captain Sprayberry and Ricardo Otoya are IGSO-540 operators.
Anyone
> else on this net?
>
> I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all
> systems, that I've heard.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | September Fly-in |
Hi JB,
Please register my dad and me for the fly-in. Thanks!
Stan Perkins
N681SP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Ouch.
In that configuration even a Twin Comanche makes a greaser...
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
> I can say from experience that they land REAL smooth with the gear
> retracted. A National Airlines captain and I did that in N1700U about 30
> years ago.
>
> There are those who have, those who will, and those who will again.
>
> bilbo
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
> >
> >
> > Chris;
> >
> > I have never flown the Aztec, but have always heard good things about
it.
> > I am a firm believer in the axiom, 'Management of Time' you have to have
> > something of your self in it to truly appreciate it. Know that is true
of
> > my Commander.
> >
> > A fine looking bird!
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> >> To:
> >> Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
> >>
> >>
> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my
Commander
> >> > friends anyway.
> >> > I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's
> >> > been
> >> > quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
> >> > Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
> >> > functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of
pictures
> >> > up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years
of
> >> > hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
> >> > With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts
true
> >> > at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper
product.
> >> >
> >> > cheers
> >> > Chris Schuermann
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Bill Bow wrote:
> There are those who have, those who will, and those who will again.
Oh...please don't say that! I still havn't peeled the price tags off my
purty new Hartzells and am still getting that "new engine" smell from
the cowl after shutdown. If I trashed all that by forgetting to put the
wheels down I might just go jump off a bridge!
(besides, I've told my wife that if that ever happens that it's HER
fault :-)
cs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: September Fly-in |
In a message dated 7/14/2005 4:09:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
swperk(at)earthlink.net writes:
Please register my dad and me for the fly-in. Thanks!
Will do that!! Thanks jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
In a message dated 7/14/2005 7:43:47 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all
systems, that I've heard.
How does the mad shut down technique work on the "hot start"? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flap position transmitter |
In a message dated 7/14/2005 9:42:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com writes:
I am in need of a flap position indicator (transmitter) part # 8TJ9PAV for
my 500B. it mounts on the support bracket for the flap drive cylinder. If
anyone knows of one I would be willing to buy it. (if I can afford it). Or
does anyone know where mine might be repaired.
Try Jack Chappell at 951-371-7513 Good luck jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
In a message dated 14-Jul-05 19:25:39 Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
How does the mad shut down technique work on the "hot start"?
I know it must seem mad, but by shutting off the mags, you leave the Simmonds
full of fuel ... and on the IGSO-540 hot starts are not a problem especially
since it's single point fuel injection into the supercharger.
However, when the oil is hot, oil pressure is low and a Simmonds goes full
rich with low oil pressure so that's the real problem with too rich of a mixture
on start and that's why 680-F series Commanders will smoke during idle and
have RPM fluctuations, which tears up the gear box.
Use higher viscosity oil in the summer and the IGSO-540 starts fine.
Nanually leaning on the ground in hight temps and DENALTS is often required for
a
smooth idle.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Finished restoration |
Chris,
Glad to hear that you got it up and running, it looks better than when it
came from the factory. However, what you said to your wife---- you might
want to read this first.
> > > > A couple had been debating the purchase of a new auto for weeks. He
> > > > wanted a new truck. She wanted a fast little sports-like car so
> > > > she could zip through traffic around town.
> > > > He would probably have settled on any beat up old truck,
> > > > but everything she seemed to like was way out of their price
> > > > range.
> > > > "Look!" she said. "I want something that goes from 0 to 200 in
> > > > 4 seconds or less. And my birthday is coming up. You could
> > > > surprise me."
> > > > For her birthday, he bought her a brand new bathroom scale.
> > > >
> > > > Services will be at Downing funeral home on Monday the 12th, due
> > > > to the condition of the body, this will be a closed casket service.
> > > >
> > > > Please send your donations to the 'Think before you say things to
> > > > your wife foundation".
> > > > Jim A
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Bill Bow wrote:
> There are those who have, those who will, and those who will again.
Oh...please don't say that! I still havn't peeled the price tags off my
purty new Hartzells and am still getting that "new engine" smell from
the cowl after shutdown. If I trashed all that by forgetting to put the
wheels down I might just go jump off a bridge!
(besides, I've told my wife that if that ever happens that it's HER
fault :-)
cs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Great job Chris...well done!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:03:37 -0500
>From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
>Subject: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
>Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my
Commander
>friends anyway.
>I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's
been
>quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know
an
>Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
>functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of
pictures
>up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of
two years of
>hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
>With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at
170kts true
>at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper
product.
>
>cheers
>Chris Schuermann
>
>
>_-
=========================================
===================
>_-
=========================================
===================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Stewart <dstewart777777(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Sizzor Arm for 560 |
Hey, does anyone know where I can get a replacement lower sizzor arm for my nose
strut on my 560?
Thanks,
Dan
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
JB
When there a hot start is going to be made it seems that the best technique
is to go to idle shut off, then mags off. To start hot after shutting down
this way do not boost or prime, but have your fingers on the boost pump and
primer switches, and be darn quick, in cast the engine starts to stumble
after firing. This generally works very well (about three prop blades of
rotation until if starts), although, a couple of weeks ago in Colorado with
a density altitude of 10,700 feet starting the right engine took a long
time, as I had to flood it and start all over again. Perhaps the problem was
pump related, as the pump started leaking badly around the lean cut off
shaft on the same engine shortly thereafter.
One thing I do not understand: When the engine is shut off by using the idle
cut off- which starves the engine- how come it starts back up (hot) without
prime or boost?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
>
> In a message dated 7/14/2005 7:43:47 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
>
> I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all
> systems, that I've heard.
>
>
> How does the mad shut down technique work on the "hot start"? jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
mm, how many hands do you have? mason
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
JB
When there a hot start is going to be made it seems that the best technique
is to go to idle shut off, then mags off. To start hot after shutting down
this way do not boost or prime, but have your fingers on the boost pump and
primer switches, and be darn quick, in cast the engine starts to stumble
after firing. This generally works very well (about three prop blades of
rotation until if starts), although, a couple of weeks ago in Colorado with
a density altitude of 10,700 feet starting the right engine took a long
time, as I had to flood it and start all over again. Perhaps the problem was
pump related, as the pump started leaking badly around the lean cut off
shaft on the same engine shortly thereafter.
One thing I do not understand: When the engine is shut off by using the idle
cut off- which starves the engine- how come it starts back up (hot) without
prime or boost?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>>
To: >
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
>
> In a message dated 7/14/2005 7:43:47 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
>
> I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for all
> systems, that I've heard.
>
>
> How does the mad shut down technique work on the "hot start"? jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Lite weight starters |
Fellow Commander Folks,
Has anyone researched the availability and usefulness of the light weight starters
for geared engines (IGSO540B1A) ?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Chris,
Thanks for the info. Some time ago, I got my conventional twin rating in an
Apache with the 0320 engines and the Geronimo tail, at the Salton Sea (close
to Palm Springs). With temperatures at over 100 it taught me a lot about
single engine handling.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
> Moe wrote:
> > Obviously, I don't know much about Apache/ Aztecs, but I thought that
they
> > had Lycoming 0 320 engines like my 172 had.
>
> Moe,
> The PA-23 line is really two different airplanes. The Apache is a
> slightly smaller airplane, has an elevator, and uses 150/160hp engines.
> The Aztec (also a PA-23 oddly) is a bit larger, has a stabilator, and
> uses 250/260hp 540 lycoming engines. My bird is a bit of an oddity. In
> the early/mid 60's, Piper had stopped building Apaches and transitioned
> to the Aztec. As near as I can tell, they decided to leverage the brand
> loyalty of the Apache name and came out with the "Apache 235". It was
> simply an Aztec with low compression cylinders. (and yes, early Aztecs
> had the short round nose).
> Some Apaches have had the "Geronimo conversion" done which makes them
> difficult to tell from an Aztec if you don't know them well. They put a
> longer nose, squared up the tail feathers, and added 180hp O-360
> engines. Some were even turbocharged. Pretty neat package.
> During my engine overhauls, we upgraded to new high-compression
> cylinder/piston assemblies, cams, etc which basicly creates a carburated
> equivilant of a 290hp IO-540 (but with straight stacks and augementor
> tubes :-)
>
> chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lite weight starters |
mm, have not for geared engines but I did put skytech on 2001m io-720 and it
is all difference in the world. almost no need to prime. mason
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 9:20 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Lite weight starters
Fellow Commander Folks,
Has anyone researched the availability and usefulness of the light weight starters
for geared engines (IGSO540B1A) ?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
cs, I also got my twin rating 17 yrs ago in a geronimo convereted air craft, had
door roped closed. mason
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
Chris,
Thanks for the info. Some time ago, I got my conventional twin rating in an
Apache with the 0320 engines and the Geronimo tail, at the Salton Sea (close
to Palm Springs). With temperatures at over 100 it taught me a lot about
single engine handling.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net<mailto:cschuerm(at)cox.net>>
To: >
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
> Moe wrote:
> > Obviously, I don't know much about Apache/ Aztecs, but I thought that
they
> > had Lycoming 0 320 engines like my 172 had.
>
> Moe,
> The PA-23 line is really two different airplanes. The Apache is a
> slightly smaller airplane, has an elevator, and uses 150/160hp engines.
> The Aztec (also a PA-23 oddly) is a bit larger, has a stabilator, and
> uses 250/260hp 540 lycoming engines. My bird is a bit of an oddity. In
> the early/mid 60's, Piper had stopped building Apaches and transitioned
> to the Aztec. As near as I can tell, they decided to leverage the brand
> loyalty of the Apache name and came out with the "Apache 235". It was
> simply an Aztec with low compression cylinders. (and yes, early Aztecs
> had the short round nose).
> Some Apaches have had the "Geronimo conversion" done which makes them
> difficult to tell from an Aztec if you don't know them well. They put a
> longer nose, squared up the tail feathers, and added 180hp O-360
> engines. Some were even turbocharged. Pretty neat package.
> During my engine overhauls, we upgraded to new high-compression
> cylinder/piston assemblies, cams, etc which basicly creates a carburated
> equivilant of a 290hp IO-540 (but with straight stacks and augementor
> tubes :-)
>
> chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
The right hand is for the mag/ starter switch and the left hand is for the
boost and primer switches (both at the same time).
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
> mm, how many hands do you have? mason
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 8:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
>
>
>
> JB
>
> When there a hot start is going to be made it seems that the best
technique
> is to go to idle shut off, then mags off. To start hot after shutting
down
> this way do not boost or prime, but have your fingers on the boost pump
and
> primer switches, and be darn quick, in cast the engine starts to stumble
> after firing. This generally works very well (about three prop blades
of
> rotation until if starts), although, a couple of weeks ago in Colorado
with
> a density altitude of 10,700 feet starting the right engine took a long
> time, as I had to flood it and start all over again. Perhaps the problem
was
> pump related, as the pump started leaking badly around the lean cut off
> shaft on the same engine shortly thereafter.
>
> One thing I do not understand: When the engine is shut off by using the
idle
> cut off- which starves the engine- how come it starts back up (hot)
without
> prime or boost?
>
> Regards,
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>>
> To: >
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
>
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/14/2005 7:43:47 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> >
> > I like your IGSO-540 shut down technique. That's the best way for
all
> > systems, that I've heard.
> >
> >
> > How does the mad shut down technique work on the "hot start"? jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
In a message dated 7/15/2005 6:45:59 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
- how come it starts back up (hot) without
prime or boost?
There is a bit of fuel trapped under pressure just behind the idle fuel
delivery "jet". When you push the mixture forward it releases this small amount
of fuel. That is why it try's to die after restart. The boost pump fills
the gap. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Who is to blame? |
Who is to blame for this?
Joseph Kahn wrote this in the NY Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/asia/15china.html?ex1122091200&enf9c9fef13f55ca56&ei5070&emceta1
Read what David Hackworth wrote about this in May 2000: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3921b33667c2.htm
And Charles Smith in Jan 2003: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/14/143258.shtml
I've been beating the drum about the enemy from within for years. They are citizens,
yet they are as dangerous as any foreign enemy this country has ever had.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
| Subject: | Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
Hi Guys:
I don do any of that staff really. When HOT, I just start the engine
with idle cut off, moving it slow up to rich. When it kick and tries to
start, that when I push forward to almost full rich. It take 3-5 seconds to
get the engine going. If you let go too soon of the fuel, it will lock up,
and then just breathe, full rich, boost pump. After flooding it, cut off
idle, and try start the engine, CUT OFF, until it gets going a little bit,
and then move forward towards rich.
You all have to keep in mind, that too much fuel clogs it, too
little starves it. That is why it starts LEAN.
I hope that helps.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
In a message dated 7/15/2005 6:45:59 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
- how come it starts back up (hot) without
prime or boost?
There is a bit of fuel trapped under pressure just behind the idle fuel
delivery "jet". When you push the mixture forward it releases this small
amount
of fuel. That is why it try's to die after restart. The boost pump fills
the gap. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
It seems quite a number of pilots had their first Multi Engine experience in
an Apache.
I did too. A week after I got my ME ticket, a student, while the right
engine was set at a power setting simulating a feathered engine (because at
4100' airport altitude, on a hot day nobody actually feathers a 150hp
Apache's engine) accidentally pulled the prop lever all the way into feather
on the LEFT engine, killing it outright. Without hydraulics, entering left
base, the options for the instructor, Keith Smith, quickly ran out.
Both student (whose name I forgot) and Keith survived with serious injuries.
(Keith sufficiently recovered to regain his ATP and CFI licenses and
currently has the Enstrom Helicopter dealership at Wonderboom airport.) The
Apache's flight abruptly ended in a neighboring resident's backyard where
they had a BBQ at the time. Talking about crashing a party!
I was on the scene soon afterwards and took these photographs. You can see
the left engine feathered in the second picture. So, that was the take-off
without the accompanying, preferred landing for ZS-STR.
Image 1:
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/Accidents/Apache%20Crash/zs-str_img1.jpg
Image 2:
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/Accidents/Apache%20Crash/zs-str_img2.jpg
Oh, and by the way, here is a picture of my 500 about 25 years ago. You can
see the 680FP, ZS-SSN, in which I have done a bit of time, in the
background. According to the South African aircraft registry, the last time
I looked, both planes are still alive. Next time I go down south, I will see
if I can visit them both and bring back a report to all.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/Aero%20Commanders/ZS-CLZ/zs-clz.jpg
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
> cs, I also got my twin rating 17 yrs ago in a geronimo convereted air
craft, had door roped closed. mason
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 9:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
>
>
> Chris,
>
> Thanks for the info. Some time ago, I got my conventional twin rating
in an
> Apache with the 0320 engines and the Geronimo tail, at the Salton Sea
(close
> to Palm Springs). With temperatures at over 100 it taught me a lot
about
> single engine handling.
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net<mailto:cschuerm(at)cox.net>>
> To: >
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Finished restoration
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Moe wrote:
> > > Obviously, I don't know much about Apache/ Aztecs, but I thought
that
> they
> > > had Lycoming 0 320 engines like my 172 had.
> >
> > Moe,
> > The PA-23 line is really two different airplanes. The Apache is a
> > slightly smaller airplane, has an elevator, and uses 150/160hp
engines.
> > The Aztec (also a PA-23 oddly) is a bit larger, has a stabilator,
and
> > uses 250/260hp 540 lycoming engines. My bird is a bit of an oddity.
In
> > the early/mid 60's, Piper had stopped building Apaches and
transitioned
> > to the Aztec. As near as I can tell, they decided to leverage the
brand
> > loyalty of the Apache name and came out with the "Apache 235". It was
> > simply an Aztec with low compression cylinders. (and yes, early
Aztecs
> > had the short round nose).
> > Some Apaches have had the "Geronimo conversion" done which makes them
> > difficult to tell from an Aztec if you don't know them well. They put
a
> > longer nose, squared up the tail feathers, and added 180hp O-360
> > engines. Some were even turbocharged. Pretty neat package.
> > During my engine overhauls, we upgraded to new high-compression
> > cylinder/piston assemblies, cams, etc which basicly creates a
carburated
> > equivilant of a 290hp IO-540 (but with straight stacks and augementor
> > tubes :-)
> >
> > chris
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simmonds Fuel Pumps |
Thanks JB,
As soon as a few minutes becomes available, I will dig out the schematic of
the 580 fuel pump and figgure this out.
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Simmonds Fuel Pumps
>
>
> In a message dated 7/15/2005 6:45:59 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
>
> - how come it starts back up (hot) without
> prime or boost?
>
>
> There is a bit of fuel trapped under pressure just behind the idle fuel
> delivery "jet". When you push the mixture forward it releases this small
amount
> of fuel. That is why it try's to die after restart. The boost pump
fills
> the gap. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Who is to blame? |
Well, Nico, since this puts our Commanders in danger, its sorta not too far
off topic....
Hackworth really hit the nail on the head. I fought the chinese in Nam and
know what they are capable of...
I also fought so that the people in this country could grow so soft that they
have forgotten that the whole world is out to get us... and get us, they
will. The time to wake up may be too late. I pray not, for our kids sake. They
are
the ones we have let down so badly, by having cowards and and the morally
dead for past leaders.
Flew the Commander to Monroe with Steve yesterday! Had a blast! Cheers to all
of ya.
Rob
In a message dated 7/15/2005 11:20:47 AM Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
>
> Who is to blame for this?
>
> Joseph Kahn wrote this in the NY Times today:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/asia/15china.html?ex112209120
> 0&enf9c9fef13f55ca56&ei5070&emceta1
>
> Read what David Hackworth wrote about this in May 2000:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3921b33667c2.htm
>
> And Charles Smith in Jan 2003:
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/14/143258.shtml
>
> I've been beating the drum about the enemy from within for years. They are
> citizens, yet they are as dangerous as any foreign enemy this country has ever
> had.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who is to blame? |
Rob, Nico,
THANK YOU for your service to our country.
Just my $0.02 worth, but this country is a lot more difficult to topple than
one would first think. Despite leaders who make bad choices, it's the
average citizen that makes this country great. Some of us exist every day in
"condition yellow", and if you recall WWII, once you band this country
together and give us a common enemy to fight, we're dang near unstoppable.
I saw this on a small scale, as I was at 2nd Ave. & 9th St. in NYC on the
morning of 9/11. I saw first hand how businessmen teamed with gang members
to help people, and how disparate groups of random New Yorkers banded
together. Those who couldn't find their relatives in the WTC quickly grew
crowds to hold hands & pat backs. The scene, although surreal and scary, was
far from panic; it was nearly immediate organization for the common good,
regardless of personal views. It was the only time in my 37 years that I've
seen ALL New Yorkers get along.
We left the East Village moments after the 2nd airplane hit, and 12 blocks
later, when we passed the first hospital, the line to donate blood was
already 4 HOURS LONG. They were turning people away, asking them to come
back & donate later in the day, or the next day.
It IS a tragedy that it sometimes takes an event like Pearl Harbor, 9/11,
etc. to unite us. But once that happens, all the ideals that make America
great start to show in spades. I too am upset at the lackadaisical view of
National Security, but I also don't underestimate the capability of the
American people.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: <RRamm52(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
>
> Well, Nico, since this puts our Commanders in danger, its sorta not too
far
> off topic....
> Hackworth really hit the nail on the head. I fought the chinese in Nam and
> know what they are capable of...
> I also fought so that the people in this country could grow so soft that
they
> have forgotten that the whole world is out to get us... and get us, they
> will. The time to wake up may be too late. I pray not, for our kids sake.
They are
> the ones we have let down so badly, by having cowards and and the morally
> dead for past leaders.
> Flew the Commander to Monroe with Steve yesterday! Had a blast! Cheers to
all
> of ya.
> Rob
>
> In a message dated 7/15/2005 11:20:47 AM Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> >
> >
> > Who is to blame for this?
> >
> > Joseph Kahn wrote this in the NY Times today:
> >
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/asia/15china.html?ex112209120
> > 0&enf9c9fef13f55ca56&ei5070&emceta1
> >
> > Read what David Hackworth wrote about this in May 2000:
> > http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3921b33667c2.htm
> >
> > And Charles Smith in Jan 2003:
> > http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/14/143258.shtml
> >
> > I've been beating the drum about the enemy from within for years. They
are
> > citizens, yet they are as dangerous as any foreign enemy this country
has ever
> > had.
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who is to blame? |
FYI, Thank you ROB. I know you're from SA, Nico ;-).
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
>
> Rob, Nico,
>
> THANK YOU for your service to our country.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Who is to blame? |
Hi, John, Thanks for the kind words. My sister is a New Yorker, Roxie Munro,
artist, does "New Yorker" magazine covers and such...
I actually was very proud of the way all of you responded to the attack on
your city.
My sister also refused to run or hide. I love to hear from people like you
and her just when I think my fight and so many like me was for naught. Many of
us still do not lead "normal" lives...nor will New York ever be normal again...
Thanks,
Rob Munro AC500
john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
>
> Rob, Nico,
>
> THANK YOU for your service to our country.
>
> Just my $0.02 worth, but this country is a lot more difficult to topple than
> one would first think. Despite leaders who make bad choices, it's the
> average citizen that makes this country great. Some of us exist every day in
> "condition yellow", and if you recall WWII, once you band this country
> together and give us a common enemy to fight, we're dang near unstoppable.
>
> I saw this on a small scale, as I was at 2nd Ave. &9th St. in NYC on the
> morning of 9/11. I saw first hand how businessmen teamed with gang members
> to help people, and how disparate groups of random New Yorkers banded
> together. Those who couldn't find their relatives in the WTC quickly grew
> crowds to hold hands &pat backs. The scene, although surreal and scary, was
> far from panic; it was nearly immediate organization for the common good,
> regardless of personal views. It was the only time in my 37 years that I've
> seen ALL New Yorkers get along.
>
> We left the East Village moments after the 2nd airplane hit, and 12 blocks
> later, when we passed the first hospital, the line to donate blood was
> already 4 HOURS LONG. They were turning people away, asking them to come
> back &donate later in the day, or the next day.
>
> It IS a tragedy that it sometimes takes an event like Pearl Harbor, 9/11,
> etc. to unite us. But once that happens, all the ideals that make America
> great start to show in spades. I too am upset at the lackadaisical view of
> National Security, but I also don't underestimate the capability of the
> American people.
>
> /John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who is to blame? |
John,
I don't doubt for a moment that what you are saying is the truth. It is, in
spite of that I believe, necessary to sound the bugle when the cost to
reverse the assault on our core values will be counted in innocent lives.
Let's look at an aviation related event, which I believe is analogous. At
the end of April this year, returning from a trip to Africa, we took off
from Chicago bound for LAX and flew close to Meigs Field. Although at the
altitude we were flying, I couldn't clearly see the damage that mayor Daley
has caused to the field in March '03 but the events of his sneak attack on
the rights and privileges of the people immediately sprung to mind. I must
admit, I don't have recent information on what has happened to the mayor's
vigilante destruction of public property for personal (or political) gain,
but it might be a safe bet to assume that it has been swept under the rug
and the airfield is lost. I might be wrong, but nothing has crossed the
wires on this.
How is this analogous? The same motives caused Clinton to sell secrets to
the Chinese. What about the lives that it will cost to stop that blunder?
How many Americans have received nothing but a solemn ceremony and a folded
flag because the likes of Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Howard Dean, Al Gore,
and Ted Kennedy have exercised their right to free speech? A right they
should have, there is no agitation against that, but how they exercised it
should be a concern for the people, you and I, because it exposes their true
intentions, loyalties, and character. Through that we gauge that they are
enemies of the people of this country if not, then, of the Constitution per
se. The Constitution ought not indict them - we ought to and remove them
from office and run them out of Dodge. It is busy happening already and that
is cause for jubilation.
The majority of the people's core values set for them boundaries beyond
which they will not go, even if it meant calamity or death. They watch what
they say because of a value they put on their character and what others are
caused to hear and believe by their free speech rights, but these folks have
so-called core values that are floating, having nothing beyond which they
will not go.
That's the bugle I sound, John. Not the end of this great nation, not at
all. Just the cost to fix what we might have been able to prevent before we
have to ask good folks to get themselves killed to fix it.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
>
> Rob, Nico,
>
> THANK YOU for your service to our country.
>
> Just my $0.02 worth, but this country is a lot more difficult to topple
than
> one would first think. Despite leaders who make bad choices, it's the
> average citizen that makes this country great. Some of us exist every day
in
> "condition yellow", and if you recall WWII, once you band this country
> together and give us a common enemy to fight, we're dang near unstoppable.
>
> I saw this on a small scale, as I was at 2nd Ave. & 9th St. in NYC on the
> morning of 9/11. I saw first hand how businessmen teamed with gang members
> to help people, and how disparate groups of random New Yorkers banded
> together. Those who couldn't find their relatives in the WTC quickly grew
> crowds to hold hands & pat backs. The scene, although surreal and scary,
was
> far from panic; it was nearly immediate organization for the common good,
> regardless of personal views. It was the only time in my 37 years that
I've
> seen ALL New Yorkers get along.
>
> We left the East Village moments after the 2nd airplane hit, and 12 blocks
> later, when we passed the first hospital, the line to donate blood was
> already 4 HOURS LONG. They were turning people away, asking them to come
> back & donate later in the day, or the next day.
>
> It IS a tragedy that it sometimes takes an event like Pearl Harbor, 9/11,
> etc. to unite us. But once that happens, all the ideals that make America
> great start to show in spades. I too am upset at the lackadaisical view of
> National Security, but I also don't underestimate the capability of the
> American people.
>
> /John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RRamm52(at)cs.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
>
>
> >
> > Well, Nico, since this puts our Commanders in danger, its sorta not too
> far
> > off topic....
> > Hackworth really hit the nail on the head. I fought the chinese in Nam
and
> > know what they are capable of...
> > I also fought so that the people in this country could grow so soft that
> they
> > have forgotten that the whole world is out to get us... and get us, they
> > will. The time to wake up may be too late. I pray not, for our kids
sake.
> They are
> > the ones we have let down so badly, by having cowards and and the
morally
> > dead for past leaders.
> > Flew the Commander to Monroe with Steve yesterday! Had a blast! Cheers
to
> all
> > of ya.
> > Rob
> >
> > In a message dated 7/15/2005 11:20:47 AM Central Standard Time,
> > nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Who is to blame for this?
> > >
> > > Joseph Kahn wrote this in the NY Times today:
> > >
>
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/asia/15china.html?ex112209120
> > > 0&enf9c9fef13f55ca56&ei5070&emceta1
> > >
> > > Read what David Hackworth wrote about this in May 2000:
> > > http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3921b33667c2.htm
> > >
> > > And Charles Smith in Jan 2003:
> > > http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/14/143258.shtml
> > >
> > > I've been beating the drum about the enemy from within for years. They
> are
> > > citizens, yet they are as dangerous as any foreign enemy this country
> has ever
> > > had.
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who is to blame? |
Nico,
I hear what you see and agree with almost all of it. The loss of Meigs field
is indeed a tragedy, and I see how that can be compared to the general
public feeling in relation to other incidents & practices.
That being said, the court of public opinion is like a pendulum. It will
continue to swing from the far left, to moderate, to far right and back
again. We lost Meigs, but in TX they've just opened a new airport. AOPA has
also successfully saved other fields at least in the short term. As aviation
continues to grow & become safer, and perhaps when the VLJ's really start
hitting the market, I think the positive impact on local business near
airports will be felt....and I wouldn't be surprised if new fields spring
up. Either way, history shows that public opinion (and the votes that
accompany it) will swing again.
I myself am at an airport (KPAO) where I think our time is finite; it's near
natural wetlands, close to residential areas & parks, and feeling the
pressure of the population & environmentalists. It won't be long before
we'll have to take strong action to defend the airport from redevelopment.
As far as general political practice...only time will tell. People don't
stand indefinitely for the loss of American lives under dubious
justification. Sadly we never learn from the past. You'd think after
Vietnam, policymakers would recognize that you can't export democracy at the
point of a gun. Unfortunately this will probably continue for some time, at
least until we're no longer an oil dependent economy. I don't know the right
answer or the right action to take, so I'll just continue to muddle along
trying to be the best person I can be, and contribute to the well-being of
my family, friends & neighbors...
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
>
> John,
> I don't doubt for a moment that what you are saying is the truth. It is,
in
> spite of that I believe, necessary to sound the bugle when the cost to
> reverse the assault on our core values will be counted in innocent lives.
>
> Let's look at an aviation related event, which I believe is analogous. At
> the end of April this year, returning from a trip to Africa, we took off
> from Chicago bound for LAX and flew close to Meigs Field. Although at the
> altitude we were flying, I couldn't clearly see the damage that mayor
Daley
> has caused to the field in March '03 but the events of his sneak attack on
> the rights and privileges of the people immediately sprung to mind. I must
> admit, I don't have recent information on what has happened to the mayor's
> vigilante destruction of public property for personal (or political) gain,
> but it might be a safe bet to assume that it has been swept under the rug
> and the airfield is lost. I might be wrong, but nothing has crossed the
> wires on this.
>
> How is this analogous? The same motives caused Clinton to sell secrets to
> the Chinese. What about the lives that it will cost to stop that blunder?
> How many Americans have received nothing but a solemn ceremony and a
folded
> flag because the likes of Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Howard Dean, Al Gore,
> and Ted Kennedy have exercised their right to free speech? A right they
> should have, there is no agitation against that, but how they exercised it
> should be a concern for the people, you and I, because it exposes their
true
> intentions, loyalties, and character. Through that we gauge that they are
> enemies of the people of this country if not, then, of the Constitution
per
> se. The Constitution ought not indict them - we ought to and remove them
> from office and run them out of Dodge. It is busy happening already and
that
> is cause for jubilation.
>
> The majority of the people's core values set for them boundaries beyond
> which they will not go, even if it meant calamity or death. They watch
what
> they say because of a value they put on their character and what others
are
> caused to hear and believe by their free speech rights, but these folks
have
> so-called core values that are floating, having nothing beyond which they
> will not go.
>
> That's the bugle I sound, John. Not the end of this great nation, not at
> all. Just the cost to fix what we might have been able to prevent before
we
> have to ask good folks to get themselves killed to fix it.
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
>
>
> >
> > Rob, Nico,
> >
> > THANK YOU for your service to our country.
> >
> > Just my $0.02 worth, but this country is a lot more difficult to topple
> than
> > one would first think. Despite leaders who make bad choices, it's the
> > average citizen that makes this country great. Some of us exist every
day
> in
> > "condition yellow", and if you recall WWII, once you band this country
> > together and give us a common enemy to fight, we're dang near
unstoppable.
> >
> > I saw this on a small scale, as I was at 2nd Ave. & 9th St. in NYC on
the
> > morning of 9/11. I saw first hand how businessmen teamed with gang
members
> > to help people, and how disparate groups of random New Yorkers banded
> > together. Those who couldn't find their relatives in the WTC quickly
grew
> > crowds to hold hands & pat backs. The scene, although surreal and scary,
> was
> > far from panic; it was nearly immediate organization for the common
good,
> > regardless of personal views. It was the only time in my 37 years that
> I've
> > seen ALL New Yorkers get along.
> >
> > We left the East Village moments after the 2nd airplane hit, and 12
blocks
> > later, when we passed the first hospital, the line to donate blood was
> > already 4 HOURS LONG. They were turning people away, asking them to come
> > back & donate later in the day, or the next day.
> >
> > It IS a tragedy that it sometimes takes an event like Pearl Harbor,
9/11,
> > etc. to unite us. But once that happens, all the ideals that make
America
> > great start to show in spades. I too am upset at the lackadaisical view
of
> > National Security, but I also don't underestimate the capability of the
> > American people.
> >
> > /John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <RRamm52(at)cs.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Well, Nico, since this puts our Commanders in danger, its sorta not
too
> > far
> > > off topic....
> > > Hackworth really hit the nail on the head. I fought the chinese in Nam
> and
> > > know what they are capable of...
> > > I also fought so that the people in this country could grow so soft
that
> > they
> > > have forgotten that the whole world is out to get us... and get us,
they
> > > will. The time to wake up may be too late. I pray not, for our kids
> sake.
> > They are
> > > the ones we have let down so badly, by having cowards and and the
> morally
> > > dead for past leaders.
> > > Flew the Commander to Monroe with Steve yesterday! Had a blast! Cheers
> to
> > all
> > > of ya.
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > In a message dated 7/15/2005 11:20:47 AM Central Standard Time,
> > > nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Who is to blame for this?
> > > >
> > > > Joseph Kahn wrote this in the NY Times today:
> > > >
> >
>
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/asia/15china.html?ex112209120
> > > > 0&enf9c9fef13f55ca56&ei5070&emceta1
> > > >
> > > > Read what David Hackworth wrote about this in May 2000:
> > > > http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3921b33667c2.htm
> > > >
> > > > And Charles Smith in Jan 2003:
> > > > http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/14/143258.shtml
> > > >
> > > > I've been beating the drum about the enemy from within for years.
They
> > are
> > > > citizens, yet they are as dangerous as any foreign enemy this
country
> > has ever
> > > > had.
> > >
> > >
> > > __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
> > >
> > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > > http://www.eset.com
> > >
> > >
> > > __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
> > >
> > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > > http://www.eset.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who is to blame? |
John,
I agree. Wise words.
Thank you,
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
>
> Nico,
>
> I hear what you see and agree with almost all of it. The loss of Meigs
field
> is indeed a tragedy, and I see how that can be compared to the general
> public feeling in relation to other incidents & practices.
>
> That being said, the court of public opinion is like a pendulum. It will
> continue to swing from the far left, to moderate, to far right and back
> again. We lost Meigs, but in TX they've just opened a new airport. AOPA
has
> also successfully saved other fields at least in the short term. As
aviation
> continues to grow & become safer, and perhaps when the VLJ's really start
> hitting the market, I think the positive impact on local business near
> airports will be felt....and I wouldn't be surprised if new fields spring
> up. Either way, history shows that public opinion (and the votes that
> accompany it) will swing again.
>
> I myself am at an airport (KPAO) where I think our time is finite; it's
near
> natural wetlands, close to residential areas & parks, and feeling the
> pressure of the population & environmentalists. It won't be long before
> we'll have to take strong action to defend the airport from redevelopment.
>
> As far as general political practice...only time will tell. People don't
> stand indefinitely for the loss of American lives under dubious
> justification. Sadly we never learn from the past. You'd think after
> Vietnam, policymakers would recognize that you can't export democracy at
the
> point of a gun. Unfortunately this will probably continue for some time,
at
> least until we're no longer an oil dependent economy. I don't know the
right
> answer or the right action to take, so I'll just continue to muddle along
> trying to be the best person I can be, and contribute to the well-being of
> my family, friends & neighbors...
>
> /J
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
>
>
>
> >
> > John,
> > I don't doubt for a moment that what you are saying is the truth. It is,
> in
> > spite of that I believe, necessary to sound the bugle when the cost to
> > reverse the assault on our core values will be counted in innocent
lives.
> >
> > Let's look at an aviation related event, which I believe is analogous.
At
> > the end of April this year, returning from a trip to Africa, we took off
> > from Chicago bound for LAX and flew close to Meigs Field. Although at
the
> > altitude we were flying, I couldn't clearly see the damage that mayor
> Daley
> > has caused to the field in March '03 but the events of his sneak attack
on
> > the rights and privileges of the people immediately sprung to mind. I
must
> > admit, I don't have recent information on what has happened to the
mayor's
> > vigilante destruction of public property for personal (or political)
gain,
> > but it might be a safe bet to assume that it has been swept under the
rug
> > and the airfield is lost. I might be wrong, but nothing has crossed the
> > wires on this.
> >
> > How is this analogous? The same motives caused Clinton to sell secrets
to
> > the Chinese. What about the lives that it will cost to stop that
blunder?
> > How many Americans have received nothing but a solemn ceremony and a
> folded
> > flag because the likes of Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Howard Dean, Al
Gore,
> > and Ted Kennedy have exercised their right to free speech? A right they
> > should have, there is no agitation against that, but how they exercised
it
> > should be a concern for the people, you and I, because it exposes their
> true
> > intentions, loyalties, and character. Through that we gauge that they
are
> > enemies of the people of this country if not, then, of the Constitution
> per
> > se. The Constitution ought not indict them - we ought to and remove them
> > from office and run them out of Dodge. It is busy happening already and
> that
> > is cause for jubilation.
> >
> > The majority of the people's core values set for them boundaries beyond
> > which they will not go, even if it meant calamity or death. They watch
> what
> > they say because of a value they put on their character and what others
> are
> > caused to hear and believe by their free speech rights, but these folks
> have
> > so-called core values that are floating, having nothing beyond which
they
> > will not go.
> >
> > That's the bugle I sound, John. Not the end of this great nation, not at
> > all. Just the cost to fix what we might have been able to prevent before
> we
> > have to ask good folks to get themselves killed to fix it.
> >
> > Nico
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > > Rob, Nico,
> > >
> > > THANK YOU for your service to our country.
> > >
> > > Just my $0.02 worth, but this country is a lot more difficult to
topple
> > than
> > > one would first think. Despite leaders who make bad choices, it's the
> > > average citizen that makes this country great. Some of us exist every
> day
> > in
> > > "condition yellow", and if you recall WWII, once you band this country
> > > together and give us a common enemy to fight, we're dang near
> unstoppable.
> > >
> > > I saw this on a small scale, as I was at 2nd Ave. & 9th St. in NYC on
> the
> > > morning of 9/11. I saw first hand how businessmen teamed with gang
> members
> > > to help people, and how disparate groups of random New Yorkers banded
> > > together. Those who couldn't find their relatives in the WTC quickly
> grew
> > > crowds to hold hands & pat backs. The scene, although surreal and
scary,
> > was
> > > far from panic; it was nearly immediate organization for the common
> good,
> > > regardless of personal views. It was the only time in my 37 years that
> > I've
> > > seen ALL New Yorkers get along.
> > >
> > > We left the East Village moments after the 2nd airplane hit, and 12
> blocks
> > > later, when we passed the first hospital, the line to donate blood was
> > > already 4 HOURS LONG. They were turning people away, asking them to
come
> > > back & donate later in the day, or the next day.
> > >
> > > It IS a tragedy that it sometimes takes an event like Pearl Harbor,
> 9/11,
> > > etc. to unite us. But once that happens, all the ideals that make
> America
> > > great start to show in spades. I too am upset at the lackadaisical
view
> of
> > > National Security, but I also don't underestimate the capability of
the
> > > American people.
> > >
> > > /John
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <RRamm52(at)cs.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Who is to blame?
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, Nico, since this puts our Commanders in danger, its sorta not
> too
> > > far
> > > > off topic....
> > > > Hackworth really hit the nail on the head. I fought the chinese in
Nam
> > and
> > > > know what they are capable of...
> > > > I also fought so that the people in this country could grow so soft
> that
> > > they
> > > > have forgotten that the whole world is out to get us... and get us,
> they
> > > > will. The time to wake up may be too late. I pray not, for our kids
> > sake.
> > > They are
> > > > the ones we have let down so badly, by having cowards and and the
> > morally
> > > > dead for past leaders.
> > > > Flew the Commander to Monroe with Steve yesterday! Had a blast!
Cheers
> > to
> > > all
> > > > of ya.
> > > > Rob
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 7/15/2005 11:20:47 AM Central Standard Time,
> > > > nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Who is to blame for this?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joseph Kahn wrote this in the NY Times today:
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/asia/15china.html?ex112209120
> > > > > 0&enf9c9fef13f55ca56&ei5070&emceta1
> > > > >
> > > > > Read what David Hackworth wrote about this in May 2000:
> > > > > http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3921b33667c2.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > And Charles Smith in Jan 2003:
> > > > > http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/14/143258.shtml
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been beating the drum about the enemy from within for years.
> They
> > > are
> > > > > citizens, yet they are as dangerous as any foreign enemy this
> country
> > > has ever
> > > > > had.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
> > > >
> > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > > > http://www.eset.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
> > > >
> > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > > > http://www.eset.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1169 (20050714) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben(at)gmpexpress.net> |
| Subject: | 560 with the 540 |
Is there an STC that allows one to change the GO-480s on the early 560s to the
IGO-540s that are on the 560F?
Thanks!
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 560 with the 540 |
In a message dated 15-Jul-05 20:51:01 Pacific Daylight Time,
ben(at)gmpexpress.net writes:
Is there an STC that allows one to change the GO-480s on the early 560s to
the IGO-540s that are on the 560F?
No.
That's the short answer.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Who is to blame? |
In a message dated 7/15/2005 2:06:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
That's the bugle I sound, John.
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sizzor Arm for 560 |
In a message dated 7/15/2005 4:40:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
dstewart777777(at)yahoo.com writes:
Hey, does anyone know where I can get a replacement lower sizzor arm for my
nose strut on my 560?
Try the American Navion Society. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Coons" <kevincoons(at)cavucompanies.net> |
| Subject: | Sizzor Arm for 560 |
Dan,
You may want to check with John Towner of Central Air Southwest Airlines in
Kansas City, MO. I know he has an STC for this part for the 500 models. It
may be the same link. I know he sells them for considerably less than Twin
Commander Aircraft Corp.
Good Luck,
Kevin Coons
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
Stewart
Subject: Commander-List: Sizzor Arm for 560
Hey, does anyone know where I can get a replacement lower sizzor arm for my
nose strut on my 560?
Thanks,
Dan
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Great Day in Commander Land |
I was invited to put a little time on N 261JG by George (Jorge) Gonzalez
today. We took off from 1N1 and flew to Santa Fe, shot two approaches, then
down to Albuquerque to Double Eagle KAGE for another approach and landing.
Took on some fuel and flew back to 1N1 Sandia Airpark.
Thanks George. 261JG is one very nice 500S. I could get to like the Garmon
530 a lot.
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> Land |
| Subject: | Re: Great Day in Commander |
Land
G'day Tylor,
Thanks for sharing!
Cheers
Russell
---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:03:01 -0600
>From: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Commander-List: Great Day in Commander Land
>To: "Commander-List"
>
>
>I was invited to put a little time on N 261JG by George (Jorge)
Gonzalez
>today. We took off from 1N1 and flew to Santa Fe, shot two
approaches, then
>down to Albuquerque to Double Eagle KAGE for another
approach and landing.
>Took on some fuel and flew back to 1N1 Sandia Airpark.
>
>Thanks George. 261JG is one very nice 500S. I could get to
like the Garmon
>530 a lot.
>
>Tylor Hall
>
>
>_-
=========================================
===================
>_-
=========================================
===================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | TRIP IN TRIPLE 2 |
HI KIDS...
Tylor Hall shared his recent flight and reminded me that I had a
nice ride last weekend in N222Jim & Sue. Sue and I Left our "home drome", 1W1
and flew to Lewiston Idaho, near the Snake river. I picked up some Ag-Cat
parts from an old friend there. I needed a pair of ailerons and a LH Elivator
for my Bi-Plane/Float-Plane. Had a great ride over at 11.5 with nice
tailwinds and 225kts G/S!!
After an hour or so to load (they barely fit) we left Lewiston for Nampa
Idaho (S67) and made it in time to attend the wedding of the son of a very
close and dear friend and drag racing buddy. I love weddings!! All the
ladies look and smell so nice. It was great to se his boy so happy.
Spent the night with my Mom and gave my grand daughter her first driving
lesson (7 years old). What a blast!! Got in the Commander about 5pm and
made it home in about 1;45, into the wind. Had nice weather and we were on top
most of the way.
The old gal ran perfect and it was a great ride. Hope all is well in
your "Commanderland". jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
Thought y'all might get a kick out of this picture:
http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/3bird3.jpg
Milt, Crunk, and I were headed back from Liberal Ks (very cool museum
there) this weekend and a friend happened to hear us over the radio and
snapped a roll of film. Great friends and airplanes....just doesn't get
any better!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Neat picture of a neat plane.
Jim A
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: cool picture
Thought y'all might get a kick out of this picture:
http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/3bird3.jpg
Milt, Crunk, and I were headed back from Liberal Ks (very cool museum
there) this weekend and a friend happened to hear us over the radio and
snapped a roll of film. Great friends and airplanes....just doesn't get
any better!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cool picture |
I still don't understand how Milt gets in that little thing.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: cool picture
>
>
> Thought y'all might get a kick out of this picture:
> http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/3bird3.jpg
>
> Milt, Crunk, and I were headed back from Liberal Ks (very cool museum
> there) this weekend and a friend happened to hear us over the radio and
> snapped a roll of film. Great friends and airplanes....just doesn't get
> any better!
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | The virtues of duct tape |
I found this on AVflash.
Nico
The price of progress...
I had been through the area five days before, controllers stated that they were
having intermittent reception on my transponder. I later left their area and
had no further problems on the flight. Just to be sure, I had a mechanic check
it out, and he found no problems. Five days later, through the same Evansville,
Indiana control area, the same problem reared its head...
Controller: Cessna 12345, I am not receiving your transponder.
Me: I don't understand that. I had the same problem with you last week and I had
the unit inspected with no problems.
Controller: Well that's peculiar. In that case, maybe it has something to do with
the 1950's technology equipment built in the 1970's held together by 1990's
duct tape we're using on this end. Come to think of it, it's probably us.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AEROCOMAND(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Great Day in Commander Land |
Hey Tylor..
Another beautiful saturday morning in the Land of Enchantment
JG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Finished restoration |
Chris,
What a great job you have done.
I have a soft spot for the Apache, I did my first multi rating on one in
the early '60's in UK.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
At 12:03 14/07/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>Howdy all. This is "off topic" but thought I'd share with my Commander
>friends anyway.
>I've finally finished the total restoration of my twin Piper. It's been
>quite the project but I'm very pleased with the results. I know an
>Aztec isn't a Commander but it's a darn fine combination of
>functionality in an affordable package. I've put a series of pictures
>up on a web page in case anyone wants to see the fruits of two years of
>hard labor. http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
>With all the upgrades and improvments, I'm getting right at 170kts true
>at 5000ft. Pretty respectable for an old blunt fat-wing piper product.
>
>cheers
>Chris Schuermann
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 1968 FLYING 500 SHRIKE REPORT |
I just got it in, the 1968 Flying Magazine, 500S Shrike Report, let me know
who wants it, I'll do a mass mailing in the morning. If any of you happen to
have something that I don't please share.
Thanks,
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Stewart <dstewart777777(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Cleveland brake dealer |
Hi out there, Does anyone have a recomendation of a Cleveland Brake dealer where
a good price can be found on a brake kit 199-88?
thanks,
Dan
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AEROCOMAND(at)aol.com |
June 17, 2005 - July 19, 2005
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bp