Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bv
December 14, 2005 - January 13, 2006
> Commander. We fly a 500B for aerial survey work, using a Zeiss LMK2000 in
a
> gyro mount. Our work is for precision photogrammetric mapping. I've been
> doing this stuff since a kid when my Dad got his start with Long Island
> Airways back in the late sixties doing magnetometer work with mostly
680e's.
> The sister company was Canadian.....
>
> My company put the hole
>
> I'm familiar with SAR, but haven't heard of it being used as low as what
it
> sounds like you will be using it. Our stuff now is mostly between 1000'
and
> 12,000'.
>
> Wonder how many other Commanders on the list are survey aircraft....
>
> Steve
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Documentation & Aerial Survey Aircraft |
Don't forget the fuel lines from the fuel valves in the wing to the fuel
sump. Maybe those are what you were referring to.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Documentation + |
Check your tach and make sure it is OK, then check the prop blade angles. If
properly set you will not get the full 2650 static but 2350 is way low. If
the prop blade angels were not set properly the engine will not turn up. I
assume the following:
Both engines turn up the same
Timing is correct
Compression is good
cam lift is good on all cylinders. ( these engines are notorious for bad
cams)
Trying to set the automatic turbo controllers is generally not worth the
effort as long as you get what you need.
Do you still have the extra fuel tank in the nose?
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Gang! Even tho I no longer own her,,Lucille--my old Super 680- was
used by the state of Kentucky for mappin the state.Of course,,this was many
years ago.Just wanted to add her to the list. Big Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Documentation + |
Thanks for all of the info and ideas, yes the nose tank is still there but
generally empty as is the baggage compartment. I try to cycle fuel through
them now and again.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Documentation +
>
> Check your tach and make sure it is OK, then check the prop blade angles.
If
> properly set you will not get the full 2650 static but 2350 is way low. If
> the prop blade angels were not set properly the engine will not turn up. I
> assume the following:
>
> Both engines turn up the same
> Timing is correct
> Compression is good
> cam lift is good on all cylinders. ( these engines are notorious for bad
> cams)
>
> Trying to set the automatic turbo controllers is generally not worth the
> effort as long as you get what you need.
>
> Do you still have the extra fuel tank in the nose?
>
> Bill Leff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
I ca live with cores, I just have to send them off for overhaul. What
pricing??
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
I have several fuel valve cores that are operable but need resealing. Let
me
know if that is what you are looking for.
Bill Leff
937-369-3334
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Did it still have the camera hole in the tai of the aircraft? Do you know
where that aircraft is? If the camera hole has been deactivated, are the control
cables still rerouted?
I have been looking for that airplane but do not know the serial number.
Thanks
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
Morris usually stocks properly overhauled exchange valves.
In my experience it is not worth scrimping on these due to the labor
involved.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: Ricardo Otaola <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve>
> To:
> Date: 12/14/2005 6:05:26 PM
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
>
>
> I ca live with cores, I just have to send them off for overhaul. What
> pricing??
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> BillLeff1(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
>
>
> I have several fuel valve cores that are operable but need resealing. Let
> me
> know if that is what you are looking for.
>
> Bill Leff
>
> 937-369-3334
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ricardo Otaola" <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve> |
Morris phone number anyone??
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
br549phil(at)mindspring.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
Morris usually stocks properly overhauled exchange valves.
In my experience it is not worth scrimping on these due to the labor
involved.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: Ricardo Otaola <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve>
> To:
> Date: 12/14/2005 6:05:26 PM
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
>
>
> I ca live with cores, I just have to send them off for overhaul. What
> pricing??
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> BillLeff1(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
>
>
> I have several fuel valve cores that are operable but need resealing. Let
> me
> know if that is what you are looking for.
>
> Bill Leff
>
> 937-369-3334
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Here's Morris's phone number - 321 403 8813 cell.
Good luck.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ricardo
Otaola
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
Morris phone number anyone??
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
br549phil(at)mindspring.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
Morris usually stocks properly overhauled exchange valves.
In my experience it is not worth scrimping on these due to the labor
involved.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: Ricardo Otaola <otayca(at)telcel.net.ve>
> To:
> Date: 12/14/2005 6:05:26 PM
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
>
>
> I ca live with cores, I just have to send them off for overhaul. What
> pricing??
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> BillLeff1(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Shut-Off Valves
>
>
> I have several fuel valve cores that are operable but need resealing. Let
> me
> know if that is what you are looking for.
>
> Bill Leff
>
> 937-369-3334
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | OneSixRight, the DVD |
While not strictly Aero Commander-related, I hope most will appreciate this
post=85
I recently bought this DVD, which is both a clarion call for the
preservation of GA airports and a =93biography=94 of a particular airport, Van
Nuys, CA. As most of you know VNY is the busiest GA airport in the country.
It is actually one of the busiest airports of *any* kind in the world. This
DVD traces the history of the airport from inception in 1928 to the present.
The cinematography, particularly the air-to-air stuff, is terrific. Among
many, there is a brief interview with none other than Bob Hoover! I think
many in the group will enjoy this as much as I did. I have no affiliation
with makers in any way=85
HYPERLINK "http://www.onesixright.com/"http://www.onesixright.com/
a
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Thanks for 2005! |
Hey folks,
I just wanted to put on the public record my thanks for the great way in
which the TCFG and its members have operated during 2005 and festive
greetings to everyone.
Specifically I want to thank Jimbob for his great goodwill in 'herding
Commander frogs' and in sharing his great passion for Commanders.
Moe, Nico and Bert have been outstanding contributors with their purchase
and display of Commander info and memorabilia that is mostly out of reach
for those of us not located in the US.
A special thankyou to Sir Barry and Wing Commander Keith for their timely
and 'sure hands' approach to sharing such valuable historical and
operational data.
I am looking forward to the Dayton Flyin next September and urge all
members to finds new ways to contribute to the list.
A big festive cheer to all from Oz!
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for 2005! |
To all our commander friends.
Have a great christmas and new year.
Regards from Oz
Richard & Jacqui
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for 2005! |
Thank you for your kind words, Russell. It is truly a labor of love for
these wonderful machines. Pity the year sped past with such blinding speed.
But then again, the new year will bring with it new opportunities.
I wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and a very prosperous
2006 !
Thank you all who made many a day a delight by sharing an experience, a bit
of knowledge and just general 'tire kicking' around Commanderland.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Commander-List: Thanks for 2005!
>
> Hey folks,
>
> I just wanted to put on the public record my thanks for the great way in
> which the TCFG and its members have operated during 2005 and festive
> greetings to everyone.
>
> Specifically I want to thank Jimbob for his great goodwill in 'herding
> Commander frogs' and in sharing his great passion for Commanders.
> Moe, Nico and Bert have been outstanding contributors with their purchase
> and display of Commander info and memorabilia that is mostly out of reach
> for those of us not located in the US.
>
> A special thankyou to Sir Barry and Wing Commander Keith for their timely
> and 'sure hands' approach to sharing such valuable historical and
> operational data.
>
> I am looking forward to the Dayton Flyin next September and urge all
> members to finds new ways to contribute to the list.
>
> A big festive cheer to all from Oz!
>
> Russell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for 2005! |
To all in Commanderland,
I want to add my wish for Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
Peace on Earth.
I can not say it better than Russell, Richard, and Nico has said.
Thank you all for being friends.
Tylor Hall
On Dec 19, 2005, at 5:36 AM, css nico wrote:
>
>
> Thank you for your kind words, Russell. It is truly a labor of love
> for
> these wonderful machines. Pity the year sped past with such
> blinding speed.
> But then again, the new year will bring with it new opportunities.
>
> I wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and a very
> prosperous
> 2006 !
>
> Thank you all who made many a day a delight by sharing an
> experience, a bit
> of knowledge and just general 'tire kicking' around Commanderland.
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Thanks for 2005!
>
>
>>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> I just wanted to put on the public record my thanks for the great
>> way in
>> which the TCFG and its members have operated during 2005 and festive
>> greetings to everyone.
>>
>> Specifically I want to thank Jimbob for his great goodwill in
>> 'herding
>> Commander frogs' and in sharing his great passion for Commanders.
>> Moe, Nico and Bert have been outstanding contributors with their
>> purchase
>> and display of Commander info and memorabilia that is mostly out
>> of reach
>> for those of us not located in the US.
>>
>> A special thankyou to Sir Barry and Wing Commander Keith for their
>> timely
>> and 'sure hands' approach to sharing such valuable historical and
>> operational data.
>>
>> I am looking forward to the Dayton Flyin next September and urge all
>> members to finds new ways to contribute to the list.
>>
>> A big festive cheer to all from Oz!
>>
>> Russell
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Commanderland;
I too would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
May we celebrate the Reason for the Season.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Cessna 195 crash |
Gentlemen;
I just saw on the news of a Cessna 195 crash off St. Augustine and it said
the pilot was Gary Tillman of Rome, GA, age 43 and his 16 year old daughter,
who are missing. Is this the Gary Tillman who was on the Commander chat
list? Either way they need our prayers.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cessna 195 crash |
I found this link:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=49052
with some attached video on the search, from last night's 6 & 11pm news
reports from the local channel.
I've spoken to Gary on the phone, and he wrote my insurance policy the first
year I owned my airplane. I'm holding out hope that the search teams made
progress last night and we'll hear something good today....
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Cessna 195 crash
>
> Gentlemen;
>
> I just saw on the news of a Cessna 195 crash off St. Augustine and it said
> the pilot was Gary Tillman of Rome, GA, age 43 and his 16 year old
daughter,
> who are missing. Is this the Gary Tillman who was on the Commander chat
> list? Either way they need our prayers.
>
> Don
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cessna 195 crash |
Hi All,
This is very sad, because I think it is the Gary Tillman some of us have met at
Fly-Ins.
On the link given by John below, there is a photo of Gary and sadly, it is a
face I recognise.
Gary was the first auctioneer, at the Hillsboro Fly-In and those present will
certainly not forgot it.
My heartfelt sympathy goes out to Gary's family and friends.
Barry C. (UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cessna 195 crash
|
| I found this link:
| http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=49052
| with some attached video on the search, from last night's 6 & 11pm news
| reports from the local channel.
|
| I've spoken to Gary on the phone, and he wrote my insurance policy the first
| year I owned my airplane. I'm holding out hope that the search teams made
| progress last night and we'll hear something good today....
|
| /John
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Don Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
| To:
| Subject: Commander-List: Cessna 195 crash
|
|
| >
| > Gentlemen;
| >
| > I just saw on the news of a Cessna 195 crash off St. Augustine and it said
| > the pilot was Gary Tillman of Rome, GA, age 43 and his 16 year old
| daughter,
| > who are missing. Is this the Gary Tillman who was on the Commander chat
| > list? Either way they need our prayers.
| >
| > Don
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cessna 195 crash |
In a message dated 12/19/2005 10:13:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
I'm holding out hope
Gary was a great guy and his loss will be felt throughout all of aviation.
He had been a Commander owner. He attended our first couple of flyins and
did the auctions. He was an honest, professional gentleman in the tradition of
the "southern gentleman" I will miss him. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Sad to report that a Mallard went in off the coast Miami Beach FL. Six
reported dead for sure, it holds seventeen plus crew of two.
On a better note every one have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/1205/20metplanecrash.html
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=73463
Really sad.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Our prayers and thoughts go out to Gary's family, and the family of Anna
Kipp, as the search continues for him & his daughter Hannah.
Randy Dettmer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Subject: Commander-List: more on Tillman
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/1205/20metplanecrash.html
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=73463
Really sad.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: more on Tillman |
Amen.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: more on Tillman
>
> Our prayers and thoughts go out to Gary's family, and the family of Anna
> Kipp, as the search continues for him & his daughter Hannah.
>
> Randy Dettmer
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Bow
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: more on Tillman
>
>
> http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/1205/20metplanecrash.html
>
>
> http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=73463
>
>
> Really sad.
>
>
> bilbo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
0.20 FROM_NO_LOWER From address has no lower-case characters
TO ALL A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A VERY HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR ( A SAFE
ONE). I AM LOOKING FOR A BENCH SEAT FOR A COMMANDER, MORE IMPORTANTLY THE FOUR
PINS THAT HOLD A SEAT IN THE FLOOR RAILS. ALSO WOULD LIKE TO BUY/BORROW A
STOW A WAY TRAY TABLE TO HAVE A CABINET MAKER BUILD ONE. PLEASE ADVISE. THANK
YOU. MASON 2001M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | NICO. PLEASE CALL ME |
HI NICO
PLEASE CALL ME AT 360-903-6901 THANKS AND METTY CHRISTMAS!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben(at)gmpexpress.net> |
41KV was purchased in Sept. according to the FAA registry certificate issue date:
Serial Number
1422-69
Type Registration
Corporation
Manufacturer Name
AERO COMMANDER
Certificate Issue Date
09/08/2005
Model
560-F
Status
Valid
Type Aircraft
Fixed Wing Multi-Engine
Type Engine
Reciprocating
Pending Number Change
None
Dealer
No
Date Change Authorized
None
Mode S Code
51151274
MFR Year
1964
Fractional Owner
NO
Registered Owner
Name
RUSTY BONES LLC
Street
1641 TICE VALLEY BLVD
City
WALNUT CREEK
State
CALIFORNIA
Zip Code
94595-1625
I see she's for sale again.
http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?OHID1098597&guidDB47B26846124F5294B8149EF97729F6
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of my price range. . . .
The other ad had her for sale in TN (I saved the ad):
Contact:
Aircenter, Inc.
Gary L. Gadberry
Send Aircenter, Inc. A Message
Aircraft is Located in:
Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
Phone: (423)893-5444
Fax: (423)893-5004
I'm only posting for anyone who is interested--nothing more.
Ben .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Documentation + |
TF, WILL GET COPIES IN NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS. I LOOKED @ 2001M AND THERE IS A
DATA PLATE MOUNTED UNDER ORIGINAL. I WILL TRY TO GET YOU A RUBBING. IT IS VERY
FAINT. YOU COULD PROBABLY CUT SHEET METAL AND STAMP ENGINES ON IT AGE IT
MOUNT IT AND PUT DIRT AND WAX BUILD UP AROUND IT AND BE OK? MASON HAVE A MERRY
CHRISTMAS AND A LESSER EXPENSIVE NEW YEAR ON YOUR BIRD. P S I AM GOING
TO BUILD MOUNT FOR BENCH SEAT FROM CARRIAGE BOLTS. IF YOU WILL CONFIRM HOW MANY
YOU NEED I WILL BUILD YOUR SETS ALSO.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher<mailto:tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Documentation +
Sorry about the blank send a second ago, cell: 604-649-9320
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com<mailto:kamala(at)msn.com>>
To: >
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Documentation +
>
> tf, please forward your phone number i will call you on these. mason
>
>
> >From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca<mailto:tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>>
> >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: >
> >Subject: Commander-List: Documentation +
> >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:28:56 -0800
> >
> >>
> >
> >Gents,
> >
> >I am looking for documentation in the for of drawings or lists of parts
on
> >the Mr. RPM conversion, one question that came up is that the data plate
on
> >the aircraft still has the wrong engines on it and we need to see the STC
> >to
> >determine if the data plate is required to be changed or not.
> >Another item is that I have on each engine a plastic air line going from
> >the
> >fuel pump to the fuel pressure gauge that appears to be an automotive
part.
> >This too may be mentioned in the STC documentation.
> >
> >I last heard that Dick sold the MR.RPM rights to a couple of people who
> >have
> >not been able to supply me with information this summer as they were
saying
> >"everything is in boxes", and "not set up", any update on them?
> >
> >My local engineers are about to tackle the job of setting up the engines
to
> >spec. As I really dislike paying for their learning curve I would like
to
> >supply them with some form of documentation for this engine setup.
> >Short of that I'll pay someone like Morris Kernik to come to Vancouver to
> >teach my locals how to service this machine.
> >
> >I'll take all the responses I can get, I would like to get my plane back
> >before the Christmas holidays.
> >
> >Tom F.
> >C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Documentation + |
Thanks for the thought Mason.
I would love to pour over the paperwork.
Data plate, well after one of the engineers told me about a possible
required data plate I went to look and there was an additional plate there!
The Engine model number was and the date (74) was there, so what is the
problem?
The engineer said that yes it is there but there is no title (label) for the
stamped numbers and that is what is was complaining about.
A picture of yours to see if it is the same would be great, I don't
specifically need the rubbing as I am looking for any other printing that
might be on the plate to identify what the numbers stamped on the plate
refer to.
Seat bolts, thank you for the offer to make eight more attachment seat bolts
but I would be very worried if the seat ripped out of it's track during a
rapid deceleration, your modified bolts might be stronger than the original
but as I fly for the Government I have to keep on the legal side of things
as much as possible.
I will continue to keep my ear to the ground for these seats track bolts and
advise when/if I find some.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Documentation +
>
> TF, WILL GET COPIES IN NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS. I LOOKED @ 2001M AND THERE
IS A DATA PLATE MOUNTED UNDER ORIGINAL. I WILL TRY TO GET YOU A RUBBING.
IT IS VERY FAINT. YOU COULD PROBABLY CUT SHEET METAL AND STAMP ENGINES ON
IT AGE IT MOUNT IT AND PUT DIRT AND WAX BUILD UP AROUND IT AND BE OK? MASON
HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A LESSER EXPENSIVE NEW YEAR ON YOUR BIRD. P S
I AM GOING TO BUILD MOUNT FOR BENCH SEAT FROM CARRIAGE BOLTS. IF YOU WILL
CONFIRM HOW MANY YOU NEED I WILL BUILD YOUR SETS ALSO.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Fisher<mailto:tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Documentation +
>
>
>
>
> Sorry about the blank send a second ago, cell: 604-649-9320
> Tom F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com<mailto:kamala(at)msn.com>>
> To: >
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Documentation +
>
>
>
> >
> > tf, please forward your phone number i will call you on these. mason
> >
> >
> > >From: "Tom Fisher"
>
> > >Reply-To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To:
>
> > >Subject: Commander-List: Documentation +
> > >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:28:56 -0800
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >Gents,
> > >
> > >I am looking for documentation in the for of drawings or lists of
parts
> on
> > >the Mr. RPM conversion, one question that came up is that the data
plate
> on
> > >the aircraft still has the wrong engines on it and we need to see the
STC
> > >to
> > >determine if the data plate is required to be changed or not.
> > >Another item is that I have on each engine a plastic air line going
from
> > >the
> > >fuel pump to the fuel pressure gauge that appears to be an automotive
> part.
> > >This too may be mentioned in the STC documentation.
> > >
> > >I last heard that Dick sold the MR.RPM rights to a couple of people
who
> > >have
> > >not been able to supply me with information this summer as they were
> saying
> > >"everything is in boxes", and "not set up", any update on them?
> > >
> > >My local engineers are about to tackle the job of setting up the
engines
> to
> > >spec. As I really dislike paying for their learning curve I would
like
> to
> > >supply them with some form of documentation for this engine setup.
> > >Short of that I'll pay someone like Morris Kernik to come to
Vancouver to
> > >teach my locals how to service this machine.
> > >
> > >I'll take all the responses I can get, I would like to get my plane
back
> > >before the Christmas holidays.
> > >
> > >Tom F.
> > >C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
> > >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 520 Aero Commander Pilot Report June 1968 |
I just sent the June 1968 Pilot Report on the 520, hope you all enjoy. And
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to you all.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 520 Aero Commander Pilot Report June 1968 |
Thanks Bert, not only for this item, but also for all the others that you have
taken the time and trouble to scan and make available to the Commander
Community.
A Very Merry Christmas and New Year to you and to All my other Friends in
wonderful CommanderLand!
Barry C. (UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: 520 Aero Commander Pilot Report June 1968
|
| I just sent the June 1968 Pilot Report on the 520, hope you all enjoy. And
| Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to you all.
|
| Bert
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike floyd" <floydgm(at)hotmail.com> |
For the seat mounting bolts "studs" talk to Nick Freeman at Aero Air in
Oregon he knows the part number and source for them.
Mike Floyd
Commander NW LTD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Thanks for that information, anyone have the number for Aero Air?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike floyd" <floydgm(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Seat bolts
>
> For the seat mounting bolts "studs" talk to Nick Freeman at Aero Air in
> Oregon he knows the part number and source for them.
>
> Mike Floyd
> Commander NW LTD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike floyd" <floydgm(at)hotmail.com> |
Aero Air Phone number is: 1-800-448-2376
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cessna 195 crash |
It is true is Gary Tillman from Georgia they have not found them or the
aircraft, went down Sunday off the St. Augustine coast, Gary had a 500A commander
that he sold a couple of years ago.
A very nice gentleman.
AB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Kucheck <akucheck(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cessna 195 crash |
I bought Gary's Aero Commander a little over two years ago. My wife and I
were very sorry to hear this news this week and have his family, and the
families of the other passengers in our hearts and thoughts.
Alan
On 12/21/05, N560WM(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> It is true is Gary Tillman from Georgia they have not found them or the
> aircraft, went down Sunday off the St. Augustine coast, Gary had a
> 500A commander
> that he sold a couple of years ago.
> A very nice gentleman.
>
> AB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cessna 195 crash |
Would this renew the single vs. multi engine debate?
I see a lot of single engine light planes cross the LA metropolitan area at
about 1,000' AGL every night, with no place to land within 50 miles. Multi
engine planes are more expensive in many ways. In my opinion, it is always a
wise investment.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cessna 195 crash
>
> I bought Gary's Aero Commander a little over two years ago. My wife and I
> were very sorry to hear this news this week and have his family, and the
> families of the other passengers in our hearts and thoughts.
>
> Alan
>
>
> On 12/21/05, N560WM(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > It is true is Gary Tillman from Georgia they have not found them or the
> > aircraft, went down Sunday off the St. Augustine coast, Gary had a
> > 500A commander
> > that he sold a couple of years ago.
> > A very nice gentleman.
> >
> > AB
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Short ownership N41KV |
N41KV was the last MR RPM conversion done in the late 1999 or 2000.
You know about the "How to make a small fortune in Aviation?" Start
with a large one. This is an example.
these are very good photos of the new paint job that I have not seen
before.
Tylor Hall
On Dec 21, 2005, at 6:44 AM, Ben Baltrusaitis wrote:
>
>
> 41KV was purchased in Sept. according to the FAA registry
> certificate issue date:
>
> Serial Number
>
> 1422-69
>
> Type Registration
>
> Corporation
>
> Manufacturer Name
>
> AERO COMMANDER
>
> Certificate Issue Date
>
> 09/08/2005
>
> Model
>
> 560-F
>
> Status
>
> Valid
>
> Type Aircraft
>
> Fixed Wing Multi-Engine
>
> Type Engine
>
> Reciprocating
>
> Pending Number Change
>
> None
>
> Dealer
>
> No
>
> Date Change Authorized
>
> None
>
> Mode S Code
>
> 51151274
>
> MFR Year
>
> 1964
>
> Fractional Owner
>
> NO
>
>
> Registered Owner
>
> Name
>
> RUSTY BONES LLC
>
> Street
>
> 1641 TICE VALLEY BLVD
>
> City
>
> WALNUT CREEK
> State
> CALIFORNIA
>
> Zip Code
> 94595-1625
>
>
> I see she's for sale again.
> http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?
> OHID1098597&guidDB47B26846124F5294B8149EF97729F6
>
> Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of my price range. . . .
>
> The other ad had her for sale in TN (I saved the ad):
> Contact:
> Aircenter, Inc.
> Gary L. Gadberry
> Send Aircenter, Inc. A Message
>
> Aircraft is Located in:
> Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
> Phone: (423)893-5444
> Fax: (423)893-5004
>
> I'm only posting for anyone who is interested--nothing more.
> Ben .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cessna 195 crash |
Has anyone heard anything new on Gary Tillman? He will be missed.
Yes Nico, flying over tall mountains, oceans, and LA, Two seems like
a good investment.
Tylor Hall
On Dec 21, 2005, at 3:54 PM, css nico wrote:
>
>
> Would this renew the single vs. multi engine debate?
>
> I see a lot of single engine light planes cross the LA metropolitan
> area at
> about 1,000' AGL every night, with no place to land within 50
> miles. Multi
> engine planes are more expensive in many ways. In my opinion, it is
> always a
> wise investment.
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cessna 195 crash
>
>
>>
>>
>> I bought Gary's Aero Commander a little over two years ago. My
>> wife and I
>> were very sorry to hear this news this week and have his family,
>> and the
>> families of the other passengers in our hearts and thoughts.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/05, N560WM(at)aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> It is true is Gary Tillman from Georgia they have not found them
>>> or the
>>> aircraft, went down Sunday off the St. Augustine coast, Gary had a
>>> 500A commander
>>> that he sold a couple of years ago.
>>> A very nice gentleman.
>>>
>>> AB
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/21/2005 11:48:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
Thanks for that information
HI TOM.
It sure sounds like you are having a ton of trouble with this Commander.
Who did your pre-buy inspection?? Merry Christmas jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
A firm in Toronto did the annual (they have been doing this aircraft for a
number of years) I purchased it sight unseen (photos only).
When it is the only one in the world for sale
and you have waited for over two years to get one
and the owner keeps putting it on year long contracts instead of selling it,
I expected to sink another $50,000 into it but not for basic things like
installing a non-existent hydraulic filter.
Someone has suggested that this aircraft may not be airworthy due to the 18"
square hole cut out of the aft cabin bulkhead to accommodate previously
installed equipment, that will be fun.
I did not have the cash up front to buy one (if available) that was in
better shape but I have the cash flow to slowly support the aircraft and
bring it up to snuff.
Look at the prices some are asking for the two 680's (Mr.RPM) currently for
sale $395,000. & $425,000. , not in my ballpark.
Happy humbugs!
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Seat bolts
>
> In a message dated 12/21/2005 11:48:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
>
> Thanks for that information
> HI TOM.
>
> It sure sounds like you are having a ton of trouble with this
Commander.
> Who did your pre-buy inspection?? Merry Christmas jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Steele" <bob.steele(at)kzf.com> |
| Subject: | Hoover technique question |
Commander-Land
A while back I forwarded some of the commander-list's e-mails to Bill Leff.
Bill, as some of you know, has a lot of experience with Commanders. He was
a good friend and protege of Dick Wartinger's. (Bill knew Dick since he was
12 or 13.) Bill is a pilot's pilot, a former TWA MD-80 instructor, and he
has a couple of aerobatic acts, one of which is doing aerobatics at night
with fireworks shooting from the wings of his plane (a T-6).
Anyway I sent the "Hoover Technique Question" to Bill and this was his
answer.
I thought Bill's responses/insights were very informative (less rudder input
to reduce drag and structural stress???). I also thought the question at
the end of Bill's e-mail was interesting.
Hope you all have a great Christmas and a prosperous New Year!
Bob Steele,
Proud (Unsuspecting) Recipient of the TCFG 2005 Golden Rudder Award
(and looking forward to passing it on at the 2006 DaytonFly-In)
Alan Kucheck - you should come to this one too!
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff(at)aol.com [mailto:BillLeff(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: FW: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
Bob Hoover probably shut his engines down using that procedure to reduce the
drag incurred during that procedure. Remember his routine was an energy
management program. everything he did was done to reduce drag. Watch how
much control input he used during rolls. He did not use as much rudder as
you would think would be necessary. That reduced drag by not displacing the
rudder as much as would be needed to make a perfectly coordinated roll. It
was a compromise to reduce structural loads and reduce drag.
Bob never had cylinder problems because the head temps on a Shrike normally
don't get hot enough to cause thermal shock. So, shutting them down from
full power and restarting them to full power just was not a problem as far
as the cylinders go. The shut down and start up was so fast it probably
never bothered the counterweights. Geared engine airplanes would not stand
up well to this treatment. In defense of geared engines, most of the older
great aerobatic pilots like Art Sholl and Ed Maler. used geared Lycomings in
their aerobatic aircraft. They are very strong when operated properly.
His plane was absolutely stock except for the following:
It had an additional accumulator to prevent the nose wheel from extending
when both engines were shut down. Remember, the aux hydraulic pump does
nothing for the gear>
The unfeathering pumps normally had a single switch that could operate
either the left or right pumps individually. On Bobs Plane he had micro
switches that, when armed, would turn on the pump on its respective engine
when the prop control is moved to the full forward position.
There was nothing done to the mag system.
The rest was just a great pilot and a great airplane.
By the way, I did work on both of his airplanes. The Shrike and the "Hoover
Hornet".
Anybody know why a Shrike is called a Shrike?
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
Nice post, Bob, we appreciate it.
Thanks, Rob Munro
In a message dated 12/22/2005 7:09:00 AM Central Standard Time,
bob.steele(at)kzf.com writes:
>
>
>
> Commander-Land
>
> A while back I forwarded some of the commander-list's e-mails to Bill Leff.
> Bill, as some of you know, has a lot of experience with Commanders. He was
> a good friend and protege of Dick Wartinger's. (Bill knew Dick since he was
> 12 or 13.) Bill is a pilot's pilot, a former TWA MD-80 instructor, and he
> has a couple of aerobatic acts, one of which is doing aerobatics at night
> with fireworks shooting from the wings of his plane (a T-6).
>
> Anyway I sent the "Hoover Technique Question" to Bill and this was his
> answer.
>
> I thought Bill's responses/insights were very informative (less rudder input
> to reduce drag and structural stress???). I also thought the question at
> the end of Bill's e-mail was interesting.
>
> Hope you all have a great Christmas and a prosperous New Year!
>
> Bob Steele,
> Proud (Unsuspecting) Recipient of the TCFG 2005 Golden Rudder Award
> (and looking forward to passing it on at the 2006 DaytonFly-In)
> Alan Kucheck - you should come to this one too!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillLeff(at)aol.com [mailto:BillLeff(at)aol.com]
> To: bob.steele(at)kzf.com
> Subject: Re: FW: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
>
>
> Bob Hoover probably shut his engines down using that procedure to reduce the
> drag incurred during that procedure. Remember his routine was an energy
> management program. everything he did was done to reduce drag. Watch how
> much control input he used during rolls. He did not use as much rudder as
> you would think would be necessary. That reduced drag by not displacing the
> rudder as much as would be needed to make a perfectly coordinated roll. It
> was a compromise to reduce structural loads and reduce drag.
>
> Bob never had cylinder problems because the head temps on a Shrike normally
> don't get hot enough to cause thermal shock. So, shutting them down from
> full power and restarting them to full power just was not a problem as far
> as the cylinders go. The shut down and start up was so fast it probably
> never bothered the counterweights. Geared engine airplanes would not stand
> up well to this treatment. In defense of geared engines, most of the older
> great aerobatic pilots like Art Sholl and Ed Maler. used geared Lycomings in
> their aerobatic aircraft. They are very strong when operated properly.
>
> His plane was absolutely stock except for the following:
>
> It had an additional accumulator to prevent the nose wheel from extending
> when both engines were shut down. Remember, the aux hydraulic pump does
> nothing for the gear>
>
> The unfeathering pumps normally had a single switch that could operate
> either the left or right pumps individually. On Bobs Plane he had micro
> switches that, when armed, would turn on the pump on its respective engine
> when the prop control is moved to the full forward position.
>
> There was nothing done to the mag system.
>
> The rest was just a great pilot and a great airplane.
>
> By the way, I did work on both of his airplanes. The Shrike and the "Hoover
> Hornet".
>
> Anybody know why a Shrike is called a Shrike?
>
> Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
I have no idea why they called it a Shrike, but I'm very interested to know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: This is amazing |
Now, that's what I call progress in the right direction. Flying one day in a projected,
virtual cockpit?
Look closely n' guess what they could be...
PENS WITH HIDDEN CAMS?????
Any other wild guesses now?
No clue?
You have just now
looked into the future.
You have seen something that would replace your PC in
the near future.
LOOK AT THIS...
In the revolution of miniature of computers, the scientists
are ahead with Bluetooth technology... See the forthcoming
computers within our pockets ..
This pen "sort of instrument"
produces both the monitor as well
as the keyboard on flat surfaces from where you can just
carry out the normal operations you do on your desktop.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: This is amazing |
I must be missing something, were there meant to be links in this post?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
>
> Now, that's what I call progress in the right direction. Flying one day in
a projected, virtual cockpit?
>
>
> Look closely n' guess what they could be...
>
>
> PENS WITH HIDDEN CAMS?????
>
>
> Any other wild guesses now?
>
> No clue?
>
> You have just now
>
> looked into the future.
>
> You have seen something that would replace your PC in
>
> the near future.
>
>
> LOOK AT THIS...
>
>
> In the revolution of miniature of computers, the
scientists
>
> are ahead with Bluetooth technology... See the
forthcoming
>
> computers within our pockets ..
>
>
> This pen "sort of instrument"
>
> produces both the monitor as well
>
> as the keyboard on flat surfaces from where you can just
>
> carry out the normal operations you do on your desktop.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
In a message dated 22-Dec-05 05:06:46 Pacific Standard Time,
bob.steele(at)kzf.com writes:
Anybody know why a Shrike is called a Shrike?
A Shrike is a bird of prey -- but it begs the question why this one model got
a product name (other than the "Grand Commander") when the rest of the
product line did not.
OK, Bill, what's the scoop?
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | swperk(at)earthlink.net |
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
The shrike (bird) is somewhat unusual in that it preys on other birds. If I remember
correctly, Rockwell wanted their Shrike to prey on the competition (other
"birds"). And since at least some Commanders were named after real birds (e.g.
Hawk, Courser), this also fit with their naming convention.
Stan
N681SP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
In a message dated 22-Dec-05 09:35:24 Pacific Standard Time,
swperk(at)earthlink.net writes:
And since at least some Commanders were named after real birds (e.g. Hawk,
Courser), this also fit with their naming convention.
I forgot about those! Good call, Stan.
When compared to other product lines the Commanders were fairly devoid of
spiffy marketing names drawn from birds, aboriginal tools and tribes, royalty,
etc.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
Along with the 'Shrike', 'Courser' and 'Hawk' on the Twin Commanders, some of
the single-engined Commanders also got bird names.
(Remember the 'Tough Bird' advertising?).
These included Sparrow, Quail, Thrush & Snipe for the 'Ag' types and Darter and
Lark for the Cessna 150 look-a-like.
Those were the days!
Barry C (UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
|
| In a message dated 22-Dec-05 09:35:24 Pacific Standard Time,
| swperk(at)earthlink.net writes:
| And since at least some Commanders were named after real birds (e.g. Hawk,
| Courser), this also fit with their naming convention.
| I forgot about those! Good call, Stan.
|
| When compared to other product lines the Commanders were fairly devoid of
| spiffy marketing names drawn from birds, aboriginal tools and tribes, royalty,
| etc.
|
| Wing Commander Gordon
|
| Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:36:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 500A
--0-1852664860-1135272973=:59838
Hi Folks,
Well several years and a lot of having to fly single engine planes has finally
brought me to putting a down payment on a 500A.
Does anyone have any info besides registration on this bird...1260B,
500A 1121-57
I sincerely hope it is positive!
Craig Lundborg
dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net
--0-1852664860-1135272973=:59838
Hi Folks, Well several years and a lot of having to fly single engine planes
has finally brought me to putting a down payment on a 500A. Does anyone have
any info besides registration on this bird...1260B, 500A 1121-57 I sincerely
hope it is positive! Craig Lundborg dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net
--0-1852664860-1135272973=:59838--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 520 Aero Commander Pilot Report June 1968 |
Bert,
I am holding off on posting this to my webserver since I should receive the
logon privileges for the Commander website imminently. I will then transfer
all the postings to their proper location.
In future, you may still send the stuff to me from where I will take care of
it.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: 520 Aero Commander Pilot Report June 1968
>
> I just sent the June 1968 Pilot Report on the 520, hope you all enjoy. And
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to you all.
>
> Bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: This is amazing |
Sorry, folks. I forgot that the Commander list strips off all images. You
may look at this thing at
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/space/RE_%20Fw_%20This%20is%20amazing.h
tm
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
>
> I must be missing something, were there meant to be links in this post?
> Tom F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> To: "art la combe" <10sne1(at)sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
>
>
>
> >
> > Now, that's what I call progress in the right direction. Flying one day
in
> a projected, virtual cockpit?
> >
> >
> > Look closely n' guess what they could be...
> >
> >
> > PENS WITH HIDDEN CAMS?????
> >
> >
> > Any other wild guesses now?
> >
> > No clue?
> >
> > You have just now
> >
> > looked into the future.
> >
> > You have seen something that would replace your PC in
> >
> > the near future.
> >
> >
> > LOOK AT THIS...
> >
> >
> > In the revolution of miniature of computers, the
> scientists
> >
> > are ahead with Bluetooth technology... See the
> forthcoming
> >
> > computers within our pockets ..
> >
> >
> > This pen "sort of instrument"
> >
> > produces both the monitor as well
> >
> > as the keyboard on flat surfaces from where you can
just
> >
> > carry out the normal operations you do on your
desktop.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | T'was the Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes Style |
'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the forum
not an EMAIL was posted, not even a note.
The stockings were hung by the laptop with care,
in hopes that Tom P. soon would be there.
The pilots were nestled all snug in their beds,
while visions of SLSA's danced in their heads.
The aircraft in their hangars, and I in my cap,
had just settled our brains for a long winter's nap.
When out on the tarmac there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my desk to see what was the matter.
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
tore open the shutter, and threw up the sash.
The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
gave the lustre of midday to the tie-downs below,
when, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
but a Light Sport Aircraft and eight big EAA 'rs.
With a little old pilot, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be Tom P.
More rapid than eagles, his coursers they came,
and he whistled and shouted and called them by name:
"Now Rutan! Now Melville!
Now, Fossett and Boyer!
On, Lawrence! On, Heintz!
On, Van G and Sawyer!
To the end of the runway!
To the tie-down area
Now Shut Down ! Shut Down!
Shut Down All Engines"
As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
when they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky
so up to the top of the FBO they flew,
with the sleigh full of flight toys, and Tom P. too.
And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
the prancing and pawing of each little hoof.
As I drew in my head and was turning around,
down the chimney Tom P. came with a bound.
He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,
and his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot.
A bundle of new FAA rules he had flung on his back,
and he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.
He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
and filled all the stockings, with SP and LSA Rulings.
And laying his finger aside of his nose,
and giving a nod, up the chimney he rose.
He sprang to his SLSA, completed his preflight,
And away he flew like the down of a thistle.
But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he flew out of sight,
"Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night!"
(An Adaptation of the Classic Poem, "T'was the Night Before Christmas")
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: This is amazing (3rd try) |
Let's try one more time.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/space/RE_%20Fw_%20This%20is%20amazing.h
tm
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
>
> Sorry, folks. I forgot that the Commander list strips off all images. You
> may look at this thing at
> Thanks
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
>
>
>
> >
> > I must be missing something, were there meant to be links in this post?
> > Tom F.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> > To: "art la combe" <10sne1(at)sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Now, that's what I call progress in the right direction. Flying one
day
> in
> > a projected, virtual cockpit?
> > >
> > >
> > > Look closely n' guess what they could be...
> > >
> > >
> > > PENS WITH HIDDEN CAMS?????
> > >
> > >
> > > Any other wild guesses now?
> > >
> > > No clue?
> > >
> > > You have just now
> > >
> > > looked into the future.
> > >
> > > You have seen something that would replace your PC
in
> > >
> > > the near future.
> > >
> > >
> > > LOOK AT THIS...
> > >
> > >
> > > In the revolution of miniature of computers, the
> > scientists
> > >
> > > are ahead with Bluetooth technology... See the
> > forthcoming
> > >
> > > computers within our pockets ..
> > >
> > >
> > > This pen "sort of instrument"
> > >
> > > produces both the monitor as well
> > >
> > > as the keyboard on flat surfaces from where you can
> just
> > >
> > > carry out the normal operations you do on your
> desktop.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
They all had names
681 was the Hawk
680FL was the Courser
500S was the Shrike
The singles were the Lark and Darter
The Ag Plane was the Thrush
Though Birds!!!
I'll let you know that a Shrike is after Christmas
Keep guessing
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
I forgot the Quail, Sparrow and Snipe AG Planes
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Recurrent training |
This is typical CRM training.
From: "Greg Vail" <greg(at)bloomingtonavionics.com>
Subject: FW: I've been flying
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:01:04 -0600
Just want you to know I've been flying a lot
http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
Just want you to know
I've been flying a lot
http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyhawkC-172(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/23/05 |
FYI...new Commander vids "freightdog" at:
twincommanderflyer.com
enjoy!
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-12-23.
> html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-12-23.
> txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 12/23/05: 1
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:56 AM - Recurrent training (BillLeff1(at)aol.com)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Recurrent training
>
>
> This is typical CRM training.
>
> From: "Greg Vail"
> Subject: FW: I've been flying
>
>
> Just want you to know I've been flying a lot
>
> http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Just want you to know
> I've been flying a lot
>
> http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
FYI...new Commander vids "freightdog"at:
twincommanderflyer.com
enjoy!
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Commander-List Digest Server commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/
Digest.Commander-List.2005-12-23.
html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-12-23.
txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/23/05: 1
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:56 AM - Recurrent training (BillLeff1(at)aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: B
illLeff1(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Recurrent training
-- Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
This is typical CRM training.
From: "Greg Vail" <GREG(at)BLOOMINGTONAVIONICS.COM>
Subject: FW: I've been flying
Just want you to know I've been flying a lot
http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
Just want you to know
I've been flying a lot
http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "alh1(at)juno.com" <alh1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/23/05 |
bill bow asked a question about aopa - good or bad? on either this or the twin commander site. since i think more of us are on this page, i am posting my reply here. as a member for about thirty five years, i think it is well worth the money. you get a subscription to the aopa pilot and a representative in washington for issues that concern aircraft owners and operators. as an airline captain, bill already gets the discount at motels, hotels, and rental car agencies, but some of us may not get them. aopa gets those discounts. the kicker is the aopa mbna credit card. with that you get rebates on fuel of 5% and rebates at shorty's pilot shop up to $250.00. i am sure there are other ways to get those rebates, but for me, it was like found money. i did not mention, title searches, medical assistance, legal panel, web site access, but you get the picture. if you are not already a member, now is the time to join. www.aopa.org. allan hoffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Recurrent training |
Ha Ha Ha. That's funny, Bill. Happens to me all the time.
I have the video where you flew the Orenda Aero Commander. I assume that's
you. What happened to the Orenda project?
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/Aero%20Commanders/Aero%20Comma
nder%20Orenda%20Engine/
Have you ever had a look at the Zoche's? http://www.zoche.de/
Sounds exciting and it appears as if they are well funded and eager to
complete this project.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Recurrent training
>
> This is typical CRM training.
>
> From: "Greg Vail" <greg(at)bloomingtonavionics.com>
> To:
> Subject: FW: I've been flying
> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:01:04 -0600
>
>
> Just want you to know I've been flying a lot
>
> http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Just want you to know
> I've been flying a lot
>
> http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
As promised: Why is a 500S called a Shrike?
Some time ago I was in a long layover at Chicago Miegs Field (yes before if
was dug up by the mayor !) While I was killing time I went to The Field Museum
(for the 4000th time, I have been going to that airport since 1972 on a
regular basis).
Since I had run out of things I was interested in to look at the museum, I
decided to Aviary and look at birds ( I was really board!) As I was looking
at the thousands of birds on display a SHRIKE jumped out at me. So, I read
about Shrikes.
In the description if the shrike it said "A Shrike is a little Hawk" Mostly
because it hunts like one.
Since the 681 Turbo Commander was a "Hawk" then a 500S is a "Little Hawk"!
That is the official Ornithological description of a Shrike.
Happy new year!
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Recurrent training |
Very interesting. Both of them.
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of css nico
Subject: Commander-List: Recurrent training
Ha Ha Ha. That's funny, Bill. Happens to me all the time.
I have the video where you flew the Orenda Aero Commander. I assume that's
you. What happened to the Orenda project?
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/Aero%20Commanders/Aero%20Comma
nder%20Orenda%20Engine/
Have you ever had a look at the Zoche's? http://www.zoche.de/
Sounds exciting and it appears as if they are well funded and eager to
complete this project.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Recurrent training
>
> This is typical CRM training.
>
> From: "Greg Vail" <greg(at)bloomingtonavionics.com>
> To:
> Subject: FW: I've been flying
> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:01:04 -0600
>
>
> Just want you to know I've been flying a lot
>
> http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Just want you to know
> I've been flying a lot
>
> http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
Not to burst any bubbles but my first awareness of the zoche diesel goes back to
1993. There web site is as vague on production now as it was 12 years ago.
Great theory--wheres the beef?
dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Weight & balance - tail flasher |
Gentlemen,
I am about to do a weight and balance on my bird, any comments?
I also have determined that the "Aero Signal" flashing unit for my
rudder/tail red light is unserviceable. Rather than replace it I should
take this opportunity to put in a strobe, any comments or STC's for this
application?
Tom F.
C-GISS 680 FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Recurrent training
>
> This is typical CRM training.
>
> From: "Greg Vail" <greg(at)bloomingtonavionics.com>
> To:
> Subject: FW: I've been flying
> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:01:04 -0600
>
>
> Just want you to know I've been flying a lot
>
> http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Just want you to know
> I've been flying a lot
>
> http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight & balance - tail flasher |
Add weight, as necessaryto the tail bulkhead, the to move the CG to the rear
limit with one pilot on board and minimum fuel. Also, check with various
fuel loads to verify that you do not ever go out of the aft limit.
This will significantly improve the handling, and improve performance by
reducing trim drag.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Recurrent training |
Yes, that is me flying it. The Orenda program is dead. That is too bad
because it was a great engine. The aircraft and engine performed well. It was
fast!
Working with Dick MacCoon developing the installation was a real learning
experience. What a learning opportunity!
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight & balance - tail flasher |
Hi Tom,
I'm pretty hot to get one of the new Whelen LED beacons; they're a bit
pricey (about $600 US I think) but they'll last the lifetime of the
airplane, and their visibility and flash pattern is awesome....
As far as a W&B, I can't help you with that one. I'm just a lowly B-model
pilot ;-).
Cheers,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Commander-List: Weight & balance - tail flasher
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> I am about to do a weight and balance on my bird, any comments?
> I also have determined that the "Aero Signal" flashing unit for my
> rudder/tail red light is unserviceable. Rather than replace it I should
> take this opportunity to put in a strobe, any comments or STC's for this
> application?
>
> Tom F.
> C-GISS 680 FLP (Mr.RPM)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Recurrent training
>
>
> >
> > This is typical CRM training.
> >
> > From: "Greg Vail" <greg(at)bloomingtonavionics.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: FW: I've been flying
> > Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:01:04 -0600
> >
> >
> > Just want you to know I've been flying a lot
> >
> > http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Just want you to know
> > I've been flying a lot
> >
> > http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight & balance - tail flasher |
Are there different parameters in the Fwd & Aft limits on the Mr.RPM
conversion or did they remain the same as factory?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & balance - tail flasher
>
> Add weight, as necessaryto the tail bulkhead, the to move the CG to the
rear
> limit with one pilot on board and minimum fuel. Also, check with various
> fuel loads to verify that you do not ever go out of the aft limit.
>
> This will significantly improve the handling, and improve performance
by
> reducing trim drag.
>
> Bill Leff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight & balance - tail flasher |
Limits are the same. However the Mr RPM airplanes typically have a CG that
is further forward because the engines sit further forward. The factory
autorizes weight on the tail cone bulkhead and installed it on many aircraft right
at the factory. Attached is a typical factory installation. File 291 is a
690B and file 297 is a 500A with a shrike nose.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight & balance - tail flasher |
Thanks Bill, a great help.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & balance - tail flasher
>
> Limits are the same. However the Mr RPM airplanes typically have a CG that
> is further forward because the engines sit further forward. The factory
> autorizes weight on the tail cone bulkhead and installed it on many
aircraft right
> at the factory. Attached is a typical factory installation. File 291 is a
> 690B and file 297 is a 500A with a shrike nose.
>
> Bill Leff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: URLS for commander chat list] |
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: URLS for commander chat list
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:22:45 -0600
From: N395V <N395V(at)direcway.com>
Chris would you mind posting these URLs to the commander chat list.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4600376179&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4600376179&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4600372701&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4600372701&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT>
They are for 685 manuals and fuel caps.
Thanks,
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Hi Folks:
As I understand it, the beginning of the white arc on the air speed indicator is
the point where maximum flaps can be deployed. Does anyone have reliable information
(or a chart) as to what speed partial flaps can be let down on a 680F(p)?
It seems that ATC keeps holding me higher and higher until later, and getting down
with geared engines can be most challenging.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Moe,
From figures I've 'picked up' along the way, the maximum flaps extended speeds
on a 680F(P) are as follows:
Half extended, 130 knots; 150mph; 241 km/hr
Fully extended, 118 knots; 136mph; 219 km/hr
For reference, the Landing Gear extended speeds (Vle) are 156 knots; 180mph; 290
km/hr
All these are True Indicated speeds.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Commander-List: FLAPS
|
| Hi Folks:
|
| As I understand it, the beginning of the white arc on the air speed indicator
is the point where maximum flaps can be deployed. Does anyone have reliable
information (or a chart) as to what speed partial flaps can be let down on a
680F(p)?
|
| It seems that ATC keeps holding me higher and higher until later, and getting
down with geared engines can be most challenging.
|
| Regards,
|
| Moe Mills
| N680RR
| 680F(p)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
hi Moe,
I was taught both by John Meredith & Morris that 1/2 flaps can be let down
at 130kias. IIRC, the beginning of the white arc is at 120kias. When things
are congested here in the bay area and they try to jam me into a full
pattern, I often use 1/2 flaps at 130kias.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
> Hi Folks:
>
> As I understand it, the beginning of the white arc on the air speed
indicator is the point where maximum flaps can be deployed. Does anyone
have reliable information (or a chart) as to what speed partial flaps can be
let down on a 680F(p)?
>
> It seems that ATC keeps holding me higher and higher until later, and
getting down with geared engines can be most challenging.
>
> Regards,
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
The operating manual confirms 130K for half flaps.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To:
> Date: 12/29/2005 12:41:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
>
> hi Moe,
>
> I was taught both by John Meredith & Morris that 1/2 flaps can be let down
> at 130kias. IIRC, the beginning of the white arc is at 120kias. When
things
> are congested here in the bay area and they try to jam me into a full
> pattern, I often use 1/2 flaps at 130kias.
>
> /John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
>
> >
> > Hi Folks:
> >
> > As I understand it, the beginning of the white arc on the air speed
> indicator is the point where maximum flaps can be deployed. Does anyone
> have reliable information (or a chart) as to what speed partial flaps can
be
> let down on a 680F(p)?
> >
> > It seems that ATC keeps holding me higher and higher until later, and
> getting down with geared engines can be most challenging.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Moe Mills
> > N680RR
> > 680F(p)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
MM, ACCORDING TO MY CLOUD CRAFT MANUAL, MAX SPEED FOR 1/2 FLAPS IS 150 MPH/130
KTS. AND FULL FLAPS 146 MPH/129 KTS. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Commander-List: FLAPS
Hi Folks:
As I understand it, the beginning of the white arc on the air speed indicator
is the point where maximum flaps can be deployed. Does anyone have reliable
information (or a chart) as to what speed partial flaps can be let down on a 680F(p)?
It seems that ATC keeps holding me higher and higher until later, and getting
down with geared engines can be most challenging.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Mason,
What is a Cloud Craft Manual?
MM
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
> MM, ACCORDING TO MY CLOUD CRAFT MANUAL, MAX SPEED FOR 1/2 FLAPS IS 150
MPH/130 KTS. AND FULL FLAPS 146 MPH/129 KTS. MASON
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:52 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
>
>
>
> Hi Folks:
>
> As I understand it, the beginning of the white arc on the air speed
indicator is the point where maximum flaps can be deployed. Does anyone
have reliable information (or a chart) as to what speed partial flaps can be
let down on a 680F(p)?
>
> It seems that ATC keeps holding me higher and higher until later, and
getting down with geared engines can be most challenging.
>
> Regards,
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
The Cloud Craft Manual is an excellent document!
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
> Mason,
>
> What is a Cloud Craft Manual?
>
> MM
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
>
> >
> > MM, ACCORDING TO MY CLOUD CRAFT MANUAL, MAX SPEED FOR 1/2 FLAPS IS 150
> MPH/130 KTS. AND FULL FLAPS 146 MPH/129 KTS. MASON
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:52 AM
> > Subject: Commander-List: FLAPS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Folks:
> >
> > As I understand it, the beginning of the white arc on the air speed
> indicator is the point where maximum flaps can be deployed. Does anyone
> have reliable information (or a chart) as to what speed partial flaps can
be
> let down on a 680F(p)?
> >
> > It seems that ATC keeps holding me higher and higher until later, and
> getting down with geared engines can be most challenging.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Moe Mills
> > N680RR
> > 680F(p)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
The following is from the Type certification Data Sheet for the 680F
Maneuvering 157 m.p.h. (137 K) True Ind.
Max. Struc. cruising 230 m.p.h. (200 K) True Ind.
Never exceed 288 m.p.h. (250 K) True Ind.
Flaps extended - half 150 m.p.h. (130 K) True Ind.
Flaps extended - full 136 m.p.h. (118 K) True Ind.
Landing gear extended 180 m.p.h. (156 K) True Ind.
These are the only limitations that apply to your model.
Before you ask what True Indicated Airspeed is; it is the same as Calibrated
Airspeed.
The full flap 129 kt limitation is for the early Turbo Commanders (680T thru
681)
Wait, you have a 680FP. There is no such model. How could that be?
Well, it goes like this: Unlike Cessna, Piper and Beechcraft who had to
build a special models to pressurize their poorly built aircraft. Ted Smith built
the Aero Commander so strong that pressurization was an option!!. See note 5
from the Type Certification Data Sheet. It is installed per an engineering
drawing and a Service Information Letter!
NOTE 5:
An optional pressurized version of the Model 680-F
designated "680-F (Pressurized)" was approved June 29, 1962.
This model is a standard 680-F incorporating a factory
modification per Aero Commander Dwg. 610021. Note the
special required equipment list and the special equipment
column for this modified 680-F in Revision No. 24 or Service
Information SI-118.
Cool isn't it. Next time you want to brag about your Aero Commander to the
unwashed masses who own Cessnas, Pipers, and Beechcraft tell them about this.
Let them top that!
By the way the 500A, 500B, 560F and the 680F are all the same airframe. So,
any of them could have been pressurized: structurally, that is.
I believe if you look at your Data Plate on the tail , it says 680F not
680FP.
Happy New Year!
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Berry" <bertberry1(at)AOL.COM> |
Bravo!!! That's the kind of info I think we all want to hear.
Keep it coming Bill.
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:17:41
To:commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
The following is from the Type certification Data Sheet for the 680F
Maneuvering 157 m.p.h. (137 K) True Ind.
Max. Struc. cruising 230 m.p.h. (200 K) True Ind.
Never exceed 288 m.p.h. (250 K) True Ind.
Flaps extended - half 150 m.p.h. (130 K) True Ind.
Flaps extended - full 136 m.p.h. (118 K) True Ind.
Landing gear extended 180 m.p.h. (156 K) True Ind.
These are the only limitations that apply to your model.
Before you ask what True Indicated Airspeed is; it is the same as Calibrated
Airspeed.
The full flap 129 kt limitation is for the early Turbo Commanders (680T thru
681)
Wait, you have a 680FP. There is no such model. How could that be?
Well, it goes like this: Unlike Cessna, Piper and Beechcraft who had to
build a special models to pressurize their poorly built aircraft. Ted Smith built
the Aero Commander so strong that pressurization was an option!!. See note 5
from the Type Certification Data Sheet. It is installed per an engineering
drawing and a Service Information Letter!
NOTE 5:
An optional pressurized version of the Model 680-F
designated "680-F (Pressurized)" was approved June 29, 1962.
This model is a standard 680-F incorporating a factory
modification per Aero Commander Dwg. 610021. Note the
special required equipment list and the special equipment
column for this modified 680-F in Revision No. 24 or Service
Information SI-118.
Cool isn't it. Next time you want to brag about your Aero Commander to the
unwashed masses who own Cessnas, Pipers, and Beechcraft tell them about this.
Let them top that!
By the way the 500A, 500B, 560F and the 680F are all the same airframe. So,
any of them could have been pressurized: structurally, that is.
I believe if you look at your Data Plate on the tail , it says 680F not
680FP.
Happy New Year!
Bill Leff
bertberry1(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Berry" <bertberry1(at)aol.com> |
Bill,
Can you tell me the difference between a 690B and the 690B II?
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:17:41
To:commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
The following is from the Type certification Data Sheet for the 680F
Maneuvering 157 m.p.h. (137 K) True Ind.
Max. Struc. cruising 230 m.p.h. (200 K) True Ind.
Never exceed 288 m.p.h. (250 K) True Ind.
Flaps extended - half 150 m.p.h. (130 K) True Ind.
Flaps extended - full 136 m.p.h. (118 K) True Ind.
Landing gear extended 180 m.p.h. (156 K) True Ind.
These are the only limitations that apply to your model.
Before you ask what True Indicated Airspeed is; it is the same as Calibrated
Airspeed.
The full flap 129 kt limitation is for the early Turbo Commanders (680T thru
681)
Wait, you have a 680FP. There is no such model. How could that be?
Well, it goes like this: Unlike Cessna, Piper and Beechcraft who had to
build a special models to pressurize their poorly built aircraft. Ted Smith built
the Aero Commander so strong that pressurization was an option!!. See note 5
from the Type Certification Data Sheet. It is installed per an engineering
drawing and a Service Information Letter!
NOTE 5:
An optional pressurized version of the Model 680-F
designated "680-F (Pressurized)" was approved June 29, 1962.
This model is a standard 680-F incorporating a factory
modification per Aero Commander Dwg. 610021. Note the
special required equipment list and the special equipment
column for this modified 680-F in Revision No. 24 or Service
Information SI-118.
Cool isn't it. Next time you want to brag about your Aero Commander to the
unwashed masses who own Cessnas, Pipers, and Beechcraft tell them about this.
Let them top that!
By the way the 500A, 500B, 560F and the 680F are all the same airframe. So,
any of them could have been pressurized: structurally, that is.
I believe if you look at your Data Plate on the tail , it says 680F not
680FP.
Happy New Year!
Bill Leff
bertberry1(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Commander decent |
Gents,
Thanks for all of the comments on flap extension.
Does anyone have comments on slipping the plane, on final approach, with gear
extended and full flaps below 150 mph?
When making a straight in approach to HHR, in VFR conditions, we must remain at
1,400 (above threshold height) until 2.8 knots from the threshold. In the past,
I have been using rather severe "S" turns, or slipping, or asking the tower
for a left 360 turn in order to get down at a manageable speed. The "S" turns
seem to scare people on the Lowe's parking lot, and the left 360 disrupts the
orderly flow of traffic in the pattern.
Further comment will be greatly appreciated.
Happy New Year Everyone!
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
In a message dated 12/30/2005 9:33:50 A.M. Central Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
When making a straight in approach to HHR, in VFR conditions, we must remain
at 1,400 (above threshold height) until 2.8 knots from the threshold. In
the past, I have been using rather severe "S" turns, or slipping, or asking
the tower for a left 360 turn in order to get down at a manageable speed. The
"S" turns seem to scare people on the Lowe's parking lot, and the left 360
disrupts the orderly flow of traffic in the pattern
Good Morning Moe,
First question, if I may, where is HHR?
As I see your problem, you need to descend at around 500 feet per nautical
mile or 434 ft per statute mile. While it has been a very long time since I
last flew any Twin Commander, I would think that a power off descent rate with
full flap and gear down would result in well over 500 feet per nautical mile.
Most competitive twins will descend around 600 to 650 feet per nautical mile
traveled in landing configuration. Any head wind at all would help.
While I would imagine a simple slip would work very well, wouldn't a low
power slow speed descent also work? What is your desired minimum approach
speed? Do you use knots or statute?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Bill,
The initial problem is convincing the unwashed masses that the airplane is
pressurized. Trying to keep these unwashed types out of the inside of the
plane, I tried showing them the blower and equipment in the rear fuselage,
only to be told that it was merely a fan to blow through the air
conditioner. After allowing them to come inside and view the pressurization
control, some seem to still be a unconvinced.
The FAA registry in some instances does not mention the (p) in the model
information as it was optional equipment, and in some instances it does.
???? Personally, I wish that the designation was 680FP instead of 680F(p),
due to the fact that when typing I can't use the top key board keys without
looking at my hands. This problem is further exacerbated because one must
hold down the shift key with the left pinky while hitting the '(' AND the
')' keys. Wing Commander Gordon in right....life is not simple anywhere.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
> The following is from the Type certification Data Sheet for the 680F
>
> Maneuvering 157 m.p.h. (137 K) True Ind.
> Max. Struc. cruising 230 m.p.h. (200 K) True Ind.
> Never exceed 288 m.p.h. (250 K) True Ind.
> Flaps extended - half 150 m.p.h. (130 K) True Ind.
> Flaps extended - full 136 m.p.h. (118 K) True Ind.
> Landing gear extended 180 m.p.h. (156 K) True Ind.
>
> These are the only limitations that apply to your model.
>
> Before you ask what True Indicated Airspeed is; it is the same as
Calibrated
> Airspeed.
>
> The full flap 129 kt limitation is for the early Turbo Commanders (680T
thru
> 681)
>
> Wait, you have a 680FP. There is no such model. How could that be?
>
> Well, it goes like this: Unlike Cessna, Piper and Beechcraft who had to
> build a special models to pressurize their poorly built aircraft. Ted
Smith built
> the Aero Commander so strong that pressurization was an option!!. See note
5
> from the Type Certification Data Sheet. It is installed per an engineering
> drawing and a Service Information Letter!
>
> NOTE 5:
>
> An optional pressurized version of the Model 680-F
> designated "680-F (Pressurized)" was approved June 29, 1962.
> This model is a standard 680-F incorporating a factory
> modification per Aero Commander Dwg. 610021. Note the
> special required equipment list and the special equipment
> column for this modified 680-F in Revision No. 24 or Service
> Information SI-118.
>
> Cool isn't it. Next time you want to brag about your Aero Commander to the
> unwashed masses who own Cessnas, Pipers, and Beechcraft tell them about
this.
> Let them top that!
>
> By the way the 500A, 500B, 560F and the 680F are all the same airframe.
So,
> any of them could have been pressurized: structurally, that is.
>
> I believe if you look at your Data Plate on the tail , it says 680F not
> 680FP.
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> Bill Leff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
When I am doing nap of the Earth flying and have to descend rapidly
(non-geared engine) into the next valley I drop my gear and flaps to obtain
a descent rate of 3,000 ft/min @ 120MPH. The aircraft appears to be quite
unstable in the yaw axis, given that, I would not side slip with full flaps.
When I approach the airport I intend to land at I TELL the controllers what
speed and maximum descent rate I am able to maintain and that I will need a
back track once landed to clear the runway. That way they have time to
space other traffic ahead and behind me to accommodate me. Too many times I
have had an aircraft launched right in front of me supposedly on an
immediate take-off requiring me to over shoot.
My local field is now trained to give me room, they advise other traffic
about the "fast moving Commander" (110 MPH) on approach.
Your geared machine deserves respect from the controllers and perhaps they
can handle you more appropriately if they had a heads up of your
requirements.
Tom F.
C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
> Gents,
>
> Thanks for all of the comments on flap extension.
>
> Does anyone have comments on slipping the plane, on final approach, with
gear extended and full flaps below 150 mph?
>
> When making a straight in approach to HHR, in VFR conditions, we must
remain at 1,400 (above threshold height) until 2.8 knots from the threshold.
In the past, I have been using rather severe "S" turns, or slipping, or
asking the tower for a left 360 turn in order to get down at a manageable
speed. The "S" turns seem to scare people on the Lowe's parking lot, and
the left 360 disrupts the orderly flow of traffic in the pattern.
>
> Further comment will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Happy New Year Everyone!
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
In a message dated 30-Dec-05 07:55:45 Pacific Standard Time, BobsV35B(at)aol.com
writes:
I would think that a power off descent rate with
full flap and gear down would result in well over 500 feet per nautical mile.
Most competitive twins will descend around 600 to 650 feet per nautical mile
traveled in landing configuration.
>>
>>
You're correct, Old Bob, but Moe has a Commander powered by Lycoming
IGSO-540 and power off descents are too expensive to do.
He has the classic problem that pilots based in complex airspace (or steep
valleys) face.
Tom Fisher said no to slips. I've slipped the short body Commanders with
half flaps and gear down and do not remember any bad handling characteristics.
Sounds like a good excuse to go fly. Set a "hard deck" altitude, set up in
approach configuration (or just half flaps) and try it out. Be sure to report
back.
I'm looking at the LOC RWY 25 approach and see that you can cross DEMON at
660', 2.7 nm from the threshold. I take it your 1400' restriction is some
other limitation? Do the local controllers make you adhere to that if you're on
the IFR approach in VFR conditions?
If not, I'd execute the LOC approach all the time. I can see that LAX
controllers may not like the parallels with their airport; the GPS RWY 25 looks
like
a more ATC happy solution, plus your GPS may give you pseudo glideslope.
Any of that a possibility?
Wing Commander Gordon
PS: Bill Leff! Great to see you active on the email net!
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brock Lorber <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
Moe wrote:
>
>Gents,
>
>Thanks for all of the comments on flap extension.
>
>Does anyone have comments on slipping the plane, on final approach, with gear
extended and full flaps below 150 mph?
>
>When making a straight in approach to HHR, in VFR conditions, we must remain at
1,400 (above threshold height) until 2.8 knots from the threshold. In the past,
I have been using rather severe "S" turns, or slipping, or asking the tower
for a left 360 turn in order to get down at a manageable speed. The "S" turns
seem to scare people on the Lowe's parking lot, and the left 360 disrupts
the orderly flow of traffic in the pattern.
>
>Further comment will be greatly appreciated.
>
>Happy New Year Everyone!
>
>Moe Mills
>N680RR
>680F(p)
>
>
>
Moe:
I treat every engine the same (geared, direct-drive, normally-aspirated,
turbo'd, ad nauseum). I have two inviolate rules: no more that 2" MAP
change at a time, and the engines produce power any time I'm not using
the brakes. These rules force me to be at least 60 nm ahead of the
airplane or I'd be doing a lot of go-arounds. Therefore, I usually
surprise Towers who aren't familiar with the N-number by approaching the
field at an airspeed they associate with a single-engine commander,
anticipating the slam-dunk on to the runway. On speed at the perch
(100-120 KIAS) and with approach power setting, I've found the 680FL(P)
sticks the touchdown markers from 1,500' and 3 nm every time with full
flaps.
I use HHR to practice landings with students in the Cirrus SR-22. The
turn to final from the freeway requires them to be on-speed (119 KIAS in
that airplane) and still may require a slip. But, more than anything,
the parking garage and the raised surface of the 105 messes with their
heads. So, even if they make a perfect approach from the freeway, or
even slightly high of a 3 degree glide slope, they feel like they are
too low and pull way above the glide slope. They play catch-up the rest
of the way to the runway, and more often than not, end up going around
and trying it from a standard pattern.
I've never had the commander in to HHR, but if I did I'd approach it the
same way as in the Cirrus. Straight-in: stay slow over the freeway,
drop the flaps, and lower the nose to Vfe to burn the altitude.
Parallel to the freeway: drop the flaps and burn as much energy as I
comfortably (for the passengers) can in the turn to final.
Individual results may vary!
Brock
http://www.southwestcirrus.com/n400ch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
HI MOE.
I keep my commander on a 2400 strip with real 50 foot obstructions on
both ends. I routinely slip the airplane. It slips fairly well. I have only
slipped it with full flaps. No adverse handling characteristics, it recovers
naturally, all by itself. There is no tendency to drop the nose, nor does
it pitch up (like some floatplanes).
I have slipped to an airspeed as low as 60KIAS, although I think the
pitot tube gets blocked a bit in the slip so the speed may have been a little
higher. The only caution is that once slowed, the Commander takes a bit of
encouragement to re accelerate so plan for that. Have fun jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
JB,
Thanks for the tip. I have been slipping pretty heavy at 100 MPH with full
flaps. N680RR has dual air speed indicators, with a pitot tube on each
side. Will try to check them against each other on next slipping approach
to see if there is any difference in the upstream and downstream sides.
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
> HI MOE.
>
> I keep my commander on a 2400 strip with real 50 foot obstructions on
> both ends. I routinely slip the airplane. It slips fairly well. I have
only
> slipped it with full flaps. No adverse handling characteristics, it
recovers
> naturally, all by itself. There is no tendency to drop the nose, nor
does
> it pitch up (like some floatplanes).
> I have slipped to an airspeed as low as 60KIAS, although I think the
> pitot tube gets blocked a bit in the slip so the speed may have been a
little
> higher. The only caution is that once slowed, the Commander takes a bit
of
> encouragement to re accelerate so plan for that. Have fun jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
What's the vertical speed requirement that would cause one to slip, or is it
to avoid throttling back on the engines?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
> JB,
>
> Thanks for the tip. I have been slipping pretty heavy at 100 MPH with
full
> flaps. N680RR has dual air speed indicators, with a pitot tube on each
> side. Will try to check them against each other on next slipping approach
> to see if there is any difference in the upstream and downstream sides.
>
> Moe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
>
> >
> > HI MOE.
> >
> > I keep my commander on a 2400 strip with real 50 foot obstructions
on
> > both ends. I routinely slip the airplane. It slips fairly well. I
have
> only
> > slipped it with full flaps. No adverse handling characteristics, it
> recovers
> > naturally, all by itself. There is no tendency to drop the nose, nor
> does
> > it pitch up (like some floatplanes).
> > I have slipped to an airspeed as low as 60KIAS, although I think
the
> > pitot tube gets blocked a bit in the slip so the speed may have been a
> little
> > higher. The only caution is that once slowed, the Commander takes a
bit
> of
> > encouragement to re accelerate so plan for that. Have fun jb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
Wing Commander Gordon:
Thank you very much for the reply. As always, your good advice and wise
council is muchly appreciated.
As mentioned in my reply to JB I have been slipping the plane at about 100
mph with gear down and full flaps. Although aggressive rudder action is
required, the aircraft handles well, and the sink rate increases quite
rapidly by slipping.
Running north and south almost directly over DEMON along the 110 Freeway is
a Los Angeles helicopter routing, thus, when flying into HHR VFR there is
the altitude restriction of 1,500 (approx 1,440 above the runway). When the
LOC RWY 25 approach is used, the choppers are held until the aircraft
shooting the approach is clear. On clear days it is much easier to go into
HHR VFR than to go in IFR. To get a "pop up" approach you need to go down
to SLI (Seal Beach VOR). Also, in many instances the LA APPROACH controllers
frequency is so busy that it can take several minutes just to get him to
answer you back. Other than when coming from the south east (San Diego) on
an IFR flight, going into HHR by shooting an IFR approach is most definitely
NOT a time saver. The guys in the HHR tower and LA APPROACH are really a
great group, who have been very nice to me over the years, so I try to
accommodate them as much as is practical.
Regards,
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
> In a message dated 30-Dec-05 07:55:45 Pacific Standard Time,
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
> writes:
> I would think that a power off descent rate with
> full flap and gear down would result in well over 500 feet per nautical
mile.
> Most competitive twins will descend around 600 to 650 feet per nautical
mile
> traveled in landing configuration.
> >>
> >>
>
> You're correct, Old Bob, but Moe has a Commander powered by Lycoming
> IGSO-540 and power off descents are too expensive to do.
>
> He has the classic problem that pilots based in complex airspace (or
steep
> valleys) face.
>
> Tom Fisher said no to slips. I've slipped the short body Commanders with
> half flaps and gear down and do not remember any bad handling
characteristics.
>
> Sounds like a good excuse to go fly. Set a "hard deck" altitude, set up
in
> approach configuration (or just half flaps) and try it out. Be sure to
report
> back.
>
> I'm looking at the LOC RWY 25 approach and see that you can cross DEMON at
> 660', 2.7 nm from the threshold. I take it your 1400' restriction is
some
> other limitation? Do the local controllers make you adhere to that if
you're on
> the IFR approach in VFR conditions?
>
> If not, I'd execute the LOC approach all the time. I can see that LAX
> controllers may not like the parallels with their airport; the GPS RWY 25
looks like
> a more ATC happy solution, plus your GPS may give you pseudo glideslope.
>
> Any of that a possibility?
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> PS: Bill Leff! Great to see you active on the email net!
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Commander decent |
With a light load on a cool day I find slipping the easiest way to get the
thing down without unloading the box. There seem to be fewer ATC guys who
know anything about piston and non-pressurized capabilities. (Worked great
in the cub so I figured why not.)
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: Moe <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> To:
> Date: 12/30/2005 10:32:20 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
>
> Gents,
>
> Thanks for all of the comments on flap extension.
>
> Does anyone have comments on slipping the plane, on final approach, with
gear extended and full flaps below 150 mph?
>
> When making a straight in approach to HHR, in VFR conditions, we must
remain at 1,400 (above threshold height) until 2.8 knots from the
threshold. In the past, I have been using rather severe "S" turns, or
slipping, or asking the tower for a left 360 turn in order to get down at a
manageable speed. The "S" turns seem to scare people on the Lowe's parking
lot, and the left 360 disrupts the orderly flow of traffic in the pattern.
>
> Further comment will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Happy New Year Everyone!
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
Nico,
The situation with geared engines is that the engines can never be used to
slow the airplane down. The prop should always be driven by the crankshaft.
Also, on the ground the engines should never be run below about 1,200 RPM
(1,500 is better) with the Simmonds fuel pumps. At lower RPM the engines
will surge which loads and unloads the sun gear against the planetary gears.
I won't go into the part about the 5/16" bolts that hold the gear drive to
the drive plate.
Regards,
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
> What's the vertical speed requirement that would cause one to slip, or is
it
> to avoid throttling back on the engines?
> Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
>
> >
> > JB,
> >
> > Thanks for the tip. I have been slipping pretty heavy at 100 MPH with
> full
> > flaps. N680RR has dual air speed indicators, with a pitot tube on each
> > side. Will try to check them against each other on next slipping
approach
> > to see if there is any difference in the upstream and downstream sides.
> >
> > Moe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
> >
> >
> > >
> > > HI MOE.
> > >
> > > I keep my commander on a 2400 strip with real 50 foot
obstructions
> on
> > > both ends. I routinely slip the airplane. It slips fairly well. I
> have
> > only
> > > slipped it with full flaps. No adverse handling characteristics, it
> > recovers
> > > naturally, all by itself. There is no tendency to drop the nose, nor
> > does
> > > it pitch up (like some floatplanes).
> > > I have slipped to an airspeed as low as 60KIAS, although I think
> the
> > > pitot tube gets blocked a bit in the slip so the speed may have been
a
> > little
> > > higher. The only caution is that once slowed, the Commander takes a
> bit
> > of
> > > encouragement to re accelerate so plan for that. Have fun jb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
My two cents on slips.
Be sure to keep the nose below the horizon when doing slips, if you get the
nose up with the airspeed indicators being unreliable as they are and it
does stall the shiny side will not be up for long. The Commander having a
high wing should not give the problems that could come up with the low wing
aircraft, such as the fuselage blocking the upper wing. Yes, I have slipped
low wing planes too, probable as much as any one, but, there can be trouble.
Jim A
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nancy & Roland Gilliam <amg(at)nc.rr.com> |
Thanks Bill for emailing me direct on the 500 and 500 A differences.
Could the 500 airframe also be pressurized structurally? Just a
question, in case someone asked.
Roland
BillLeff1(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>The following is from the Type certification Data Sheet for the 680F
>
> Maneuvering 157 m.p.h. (137 K) True Ind.
>Max. Struc. cruising 230 m.p.h. (200 K) True Ind.
>Never exceed 288 m.p.h. (250 K) True Ind.
>Flaps extended - half 150 m.p.h. (130 K) True Ind.
>Flaps extended - full 136 m.p.h. (118 K) True Ind.
>Landing gear extended 180 m.p.h. (156 K) True Ind.
>
>These are the only limitations that apply to your model.
>
>Before you ask what True Indicated Airspeed is; it is the same as Calibrated
>Airspeed.
>
>The full flap 129 kt limitation is for the early Turbo Commanders (680T thru
>681)
>
>Wait, you have a 680FP. There is no such model. How could that be?
>
>Well, it goes like this: Unlike Cessna, Piper and Beechcraft who had to
>build a special models to pressurize their poorly built aircraft. Ted Smith built
>the Aero Commander so strong that pressurization was an option!!. See note 5
>from the Type Certification Data Sheet. It is installed per an engineering
>drawing and a Service Information Letter!
>
>NOTE 5:
>
> An optional pressurized version of the Model 680-F
>designated "680-F (Pressurized)" was approved June 29, 1962.
>This model is a standard 680-F incorporating a factory
>modification per Aero Commander Dwg. 610021. Note the
>special required equipment list and the special equipment
>column for this modified 680-F in Revision No. 24 or Service
>Information SI-118.
>
>Cool isn't it. Next time you want to brag about your Aero Commander to the
>unwashed masses who own Cessnas, Pipers, and Beechcraft tell them about this.
>Let them top that!
>
>By the way the 500A, 500B, 560F and the 680F are all the same airframe. So,
>any of them could have been pressurized: structurally, that is.
>
>I believe if you look at your Data Plate on the tail , it says 680F not
>680FP.
>
>Happy New Year!
>
>Bill Leff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I cannot remember ever having had a need to slip my straight 500 (which I
flew for about 1,000 hours - measly compared to what some of you guys have
spent in the front office), but then again, one could hang full flaps and
gear out, nose her over and fall out of the sky like a brick. The few hours
I spent flying a 680 - now let me get this right - (P), I had ample time to
keep positive thrust in regular descents, so no need there.
It never dawned on me that a slip should or should not be attempted, which
is why I value this group because there is always something new to learn
somewhere. From a gut-feel stance, I would have been hesitant to attempt a
slip for fear of the large wing putting the tail in turbulence or exposing
the large tail to undue side-ways forces. Sudden high rudder inputs
apparently caused structural failure in a large jet reported not too long
ago. Do I recall that correctly? Apparently I would have been unduly
cautious. What a machine!
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Slips
>
>
> My two cents on slips.
> Be sure to keep the nose below the horizon when doing slips, if you get
the
> nose up with the airspeed indicators being unreliable as they are and it
> does stall the shiny side will not be up for long. The Commander having a
> high wing should not give the problems that could come up with the low
wing
> aircraft, such as the fuselage blocking the upper wing. Yes, I have
slipped
> low wing planes too, probable as much as any one, but, there can be
trouble.
>
> Jim A
> N444BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
". Sudden high rudder inputs apparently caused structural failure in a large
jet reported not too long ago. Do I recall that correctly? Apparently I
would have been unduly cautious. What a machine!"
Nico, the rudders only break off on "Hugo" Jets(AirBus). I know pilots who
slipped Stretch DC-8s. The tail didn't break off and the fuselage did not
break or bend (not permanently).
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of css nico
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips
I cannot remember ever having had a need to slip my straight 500 (which I
flew for about 1,000 hours - measly compared to what some of you guys have
spent in the front office), but then again, one could hang full flaps and
gear out, nose her over and fall out of the sky like a brick. The few hours
I spent flying a 680 - now let me get this right - (P), I had ample time to
keep positive thrust in regular descents, so no need there.
It never dawned on me that a slip should or should not be attempted, which
is why I value this group because there is always something new to learn
somewhere. From a gut-feel stance, I would have been hesitant to attempt a
slip for fear of the large wing putting the tail in turbulence or exposing
the large tail to undue side-ways forces. Sudden high rudder inputs
apparently caused structural failure in a large jet reported not too long
ago. Do I recall that correctly? Apparently I would have been unduly
cautious. What a machine!
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Slips
>
>
> My two cents on slips.
> Be sure to keep the nose below the horizon when doing slips, if you get
the
> nose up with the airspeed indicators being unreliable as they are and it
> does stall the shiny side will not be up for long. The Commander having a
> high wing should not give the problems that could come up with the low
wing
> aircraft, such as the fuselage blocking the upper wing. Yes, I have
slipped
> low wing planes too, probable as much as any one, but, there can be
trouble.
>
> Jim A
> N444BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Of course the Commanders' tails are not made of plasti...err "composites"
___________________________
Deneal Schilmeister
St. Louis - Cincinnati
1997 SL500
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/Sites/My_Commanders.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slips
". Sudden high rudder inputs apparently caused structural failure in a large
jet reported not too long ago. Do I recall that correctly? Apparently I
would have been unduly cautious. What a machine!"
Nico, the rudders only break off on "Hugo" Jets(AirBus). I know pilots who
slipped Stretch DC-8s. The tail didn't break off and the fuselage did not
break or bend (not permanently).
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Folks,
I doubt there is any problem structurally or aerodynamically slipping
a Commander, after all models such as the 500A were originally in the
Utility cat. - limited aerobatics.
All the later Boeings I have flown had no prohibition on sideslips,
in fact it came in very useful from time to time.
Indeed, the 757/767/ 400(in part) all slip across the wind during an
auto-coupled approach.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 15:11 31/12/2005, you wrote:
>
>". Sudden high rudder inputs apparently caused structural failure in a large
>jet reported not too long ago. Do I recall that correctly? Apparently I
>would have been unduly cautious. What a machine!"
>
>Nico, the rudders only break off on "Hugo" Jets(AirBus). I know pilots who
>slipped Stretch DC-8s. The tail didn't break off and the fuselage did not
>break or bend (not permanently).
>
>bilbo
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of css nico
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips
>
>
>I cannot remember ever having had a need to slip my straight 500 (which I
>flew for about 1,000 hours - measly compared to what some of you guys have
>spent in the front office), but then again, one could hang full flaps and
>gear out, nose her over and fall out of the sky like a brick. The few hours
>I spent flying a 680 - now let me get this right - (P), I had ample time to
>keep positive thrust in regular descents, so no need there.
>
>It never dawned on me that a slip should or should not be attempted, which
>is why I value this group because there is always something new to learn
>somewhere. From a gut-feel stance, I would have been hesitant to attempt a
>slip for fear of the large wing putting the tail in turbulence or exposing
>the large tail to undue side-ways forces. Sudden high rudder inputs
>apparently caused structural failure in a large jet reported not too long
>ago. Do I recall that correctly? Apparently I would have been unduly
>cautious. What a machine!
>
>Nico
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
>To:
>Subject: Commander-List: Slips
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > My two cents on slips.
> > Be sure to keep the nose below the horizon when doing slips, if you get
>the
> > nose up with the airspeed indicators being unreliable as they are and it
> > does stall the shiny side will not be up for long. The Commander having a
> > high wing should not give the problems that could come up with the low
>wing
> > aircraft, such as the fuselage blocking the upper wing. Yes, I have
>slipped
> > low wing planes too, probable as much as any one, but, there can be
>trouble.
> >
> > Jim A
> > N444BD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
You guys are making this approach far too difficult!! Just turn your transponder
off for a couple of minutes as you approach the field at any altitude you like:-)))
I would be willing to bet the field was there first.
For those of you with no sense of humor IT'S A JOKE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: SLIP/NO SLIP |
In a message dated 12/31/2005 6:33:34 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com writes:
I would be willing to bet the field was there first
What about the trees at the end of my runway. Will turning off the TXP take
them away?? That would really be handy at night!! Happy New Year Dan!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
In a message dated 30-Dec-05 13:48:12 Pacific Standard Time,
moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:
Running north and south almost directly over DEMON along the 110 Freeway is
a Los Angeles helicopter routing, thus, when flying into HHR VFR there is
the altitude restriction of 1,500 (approx 1,440 above the runway). When the
LOC RWY 25 approach is used, the choppers are held until the aircraft
shooting the approach is clear. On clear days it is much easier to go into
HHR VFR than to go in IFR. To get a "pop up" approach you need to go down
to SLI (Seal Beach VOR). Also, in many instances the LA APPROACH controllers
frequency is so busy that it can take several minutes just to get him to
answer you back.
>>
>>
Gadzooks! Life isn't simple anywhere! I figured it had to be something
along the lines of what you described above, otherwise you'd have found a better
way, Moe.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seth <capt_seth(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi. I am new to this group but have been researching
Commanders for quite a while. I am attempting a 135
start up and the 500 series provides the best balance
of required field performance and passenger comfort.
The problem is that prices are quite high, for obvious
reasons. Occasionally, some geared models pop onto the
market at attractive prices - now, I realize that the
increase in OH expense will more than eat up that
price difference. But the reduction in up-front costs
might make it worthwhile.
And so the question is: is it possible to safely
demonstrate competency, say, in recurrent training or
on a checkride for the Fed in a geared aircraft
without trashing the gear box? And if so, how?
Thanks in advance, and fire away.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
It could be pressurized if all the drawings and equipment were installed.
Actually yours would be a 720.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All,
Well, the magic moment has arrived and over here, we're now in 2006!
So far, the year has gone very well. No nagging from "her indoors" and it's not
snowing.
HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!
Barry C (UK)
________________________________________________________________________________
If the pressurized 680F was a 680F(P), why wasn't the 720 a 680E(P) and the
680FLP a 680FL(P)?
And, of course, the spelling should be pressurised ;-)
Good fun, history, isn't it!
Barry C. (UK)
(Two posts already this year)
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
|
| It could be pressurized if all the drawings and equipment were installed.
| Actually yours would be a 720.
|
| Bill Leff
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commercial Use? |
In a message dated 31-Dec-05 14:42:45 Pacific Standard Time,
capt_seth(at)yahoo.com writes:
And so the question is: is it possible to safely
demonstrate competency, say, in recurrent training or
on a checkride for the Fed in a geared aircraft
without trashing the gear box? And if so, how?
>>
>>
Seth,
The economic debate of geared engine vs. direct drive in a commercial
operation is something I'll leave between you and your profit/loss statement.
As far as 135 check rides go in a geared engine driven aircraft, I've taken
many (AC-680E, AC-680FL, BE-80, CE-411) and can tell you with 99% certainty
that the FAA examiner is scared to death of engine cuts and even more scared of
geared engines, in general.
The POI will probably tell you to simulate feather thrust -- which you'll set
up very slowly -- and fly what ever task you're supposed to demonstrate.
It's totally unrealistic, as far as a training and check-ride scenario, but
it's the best both of you can do.
If/when you acquire a geared-Lycoming powered Commander, the collective
wisdom on this email net can give you lots of suggestions on power settings to
simulate feather thrust, depending on what model you end up with.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | br549phil(at)mindspring.com |
The most recent rudder failure I'm aware of was an AA A300 which experienced rapid
and repeated (pilot induced)full rudder reversals after encountering the wake
vortex of a B747 departing JFK. (Cleared for takeoff one minute and thirty
seconds after the 747 rather than the normal two minute separation) It was
a composite rudder which had been found to have a defect during manufacture and
had been repaired on the line by Airbus.(a fact which they tried to conceal).
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Dec 30, 2005 11:43 PM
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slips
>
>
>Of course the Commanders' tails are not made of plasti...err "composites"
>
>___________________________
>Deneal Schilmeister
>St. Louis - Cincinnati
>1997 SL500
>http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm
>http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/Sites/My_Commanders.htm
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: On Behalf Of Bill Bow
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slips
>
>
>". Sudden high rudder inputs apparently caused structural failure in a large
>jet reported not too long ago. Do I recall that correctly? Apparently I
>would have been unduly cautious. What a machine!"
>
>Nico, the rudders only break off on "Hugo" Jets(AirBus). I know pilots who
>slipped Stretch DC-8s. The tail didn't break off and the fuselage did not
>break or bend (not permanently).
>
>bilbo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
That explains it. It worried me that, even with sudden full rudder
deflections, that the tail would come off. If they messed with the damn
thing, it stands to reason that it would fail at some point.
Many years ago as a small tyke, I once went up to the fence at an air force
base, not more than perhaps 100 or so yards from the threshold of the runway
on which C130's landed. After passing only a couple of hundred feet
overhead, the air would make noises like the cracking of a whip, just much
louder. It was the eeriest thing that I have ever experienced, messing with
one's senses, not able to see anything but hearing these "snaps" - very
loud - almost like gunfire as the disturbed air regroups.
I have always been very aware of wake vortices because of that, watching
crosswinds before takeoff to head upwind from possible vortices. Then I
watch airliners take off one after the other straight ahead and I wonder.
Especially at airports like John Wayne in Orange County, CA, where jets
climb out very steeply before leveling off. Noise restrictions, perhaps?
Surely steep take-offs like that would create larger than normal vortices?
Even if there is a two-minute separation, if there isn't a cross-wind, the
turbulent air would hang around, but every jet climbs into the same box time
after time.
Just some observations.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slips
>
> The most recent rudder failure I'm aware of was an AA A300 which
experienced rapid and repeated (pilot induced)full rudder reversals after
encountering the wake vortex of a B747 departing JFK. (Cleared for takeoff
one minute and thirty seconds after the 747 rather than the normal two
minute separation) It was a composite rudder which had been found to have a
defect during manufacture and had been repaired on the line by Airbus.(a
fact which they tried to conceal).
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: "Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)" <deneals(at)sbcglobal.net>
> >Sent: Dec 30, 2005 11:43 PM
> >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slips
> >
> >
> >Of course the Commanders' tails are not made of plasti...err "composites"
> >
> >___________________________
> >Deneal Schilmeister
> >St. Louis - Cincinnati
> >1997 SL500
> >http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm
> >http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/Sites/My_Commanders.htm
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: On Behalf Of Bill Bow
> >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slips
> >
> >
> >". Sudden high rudder inputs apparently caused structural failure in a
large
> >jet reported not too long ago. Do I recall that correctly? Apparently I
> >would have been unduly cautious. What a machine!"
> >
> >Nico, the rudders only break off on "Hugo" Jets(AirBus). I know pilots
who
> >slipped Stretch DC-8s. The tail didn't break off and the fuselage did
not
> >break or bend (not permanently).
> >
> >bilbo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
No but a little Avgas around the roots will.
bb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: SLIP/NO SLIP
In a message dated 12/31/2005 6:33:34 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com writes:
I would be willing to bet the field was there first
What about the trees at the end of my runway. Will turning off the TXP
take
them away?? That would really be handy at night!! Happy New Year Dan!!
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
Good, I'm not the only one to give the rudder a little boot on final
sometimes. Doesn't slip like a Cub, but gets the job done and I don't have
to mess with power. We need a steeper approach than standard at home base.
Speaking of rudders, we noticed something last annual that was really tough
to see. On the bulkhead ahead of the pilot's feet (forgot the number) are
two rudder pulleys on either side of the airframe. They are a bitch to get
at. After pulling the side nose inspection panel off, we noticed a 1/4 inch
long crack at the top of the rudder pulley bracket. It takes some work, but
we also saw the same crack on the 'back' side of the bracket.
Since we saw it on the one bracket, we took a real hard look at the other
side and found the same two cracks on the opposite side pulley brackets. The
airframe's got about 8000 hours on it, and it is used for survey work where
rudder is used often to correct yaw while on flightlines. Aircraft has been
indoors for at least 20 years, maybe longer. These brackets are a bear to
get at. It's one of the few places on the Commander where I thought it could
have been made of a heavier gauge.
Talk about rudders and slipping got me to remembering this. I'd be
interested in hearing if anyone else has seen the same.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
Around 1979 Commander decided to reduce the price of the 690B by removing
some of the standard equipment such as the co-pilot's HSI. They then lowered
the price about $100K.
The B-II was the completely equipped, higher priced, version. Systems and
mechanically they are the same.
Rockwell did the same thin when they introduced the 681B. It was just a
striped down 681 to lower the cost.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Commercial Use? |
What would a simulated feather thrust setting be on a 680FL(P) Mr.RPM?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commercial Use?
>
> In a message dated 31-Dec-05 14:42:45 Pacific Standard Time,
> capt_seth(at)yahoo.com writes:
> And so the question is: is it possible to safely
> demonstrate competency, say, in recurrent training or
> on a checkride for the Fed in a geared aircraft
> without trashing the gear box? And if so, how?
> >>
> >>
>
> Seth,
>
> The economic debate of geared engine vs. direct drive in a commercial
> operation is something I'll leave between you and your profit/loss
statement.
>
> As far as 135 check rides go in a geared engine driven aircraft, I've
taken
> many (AC-680E, AC-680FL, BE-80, CE-411) and can tell you with 99%
certainty
> that the FAA examiner is scared to death of engine cuts and even more
scared of
> geared engines, in general.
>
> The POI will probably tell you to simulate feather thrust -- which you'll
set
> up very slowly -- and fly what ever task you're supposed to demonstrate.
>
> It's totally unrealistic, as far as a training and check-ride scenario,
but
> it's the best both of you can do.
>
> If/when you acquire a geared-Lycoming powered Commander, the collective
> wisdom on this email net can give you lots of suggestions on power
settings to
> simulate feather thrust, depending on what model you end up with.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
My machine has been flying survey for 19 years so I think I will go take a
look, thanks for that.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets
>
> Good, I'm not the only one to give the rudder a little boot on final
> sometimes. Doesn't slip like a Cub, but gets the job done and I don't have
> to mess with power. We need a steeper approach than standard at home base.
>
> Speaking of rudders, we noticed something last annual that was really
tough
> to see. On the bulkhead ahead of the pilot's feet (forgot the number) are
> two rudder pulleys on either side of the airframe. They are a bitch to get
> at. After pulling the side nose inspection panel off, we noticed a 1/4
inch
> long crack at the top of the rudder pulley bracket. It takes some work,
but
> we also saw the same crack on the 'back' side of the bracket.
>
> Since we saw it on the one bracket, we took a real hard look at the other
> side and found the same two cracks on the opposite side pulley brackets.
The
> airframe's got about 8000 hours on it, and it is used for survey work
where
> rudder is used often to correct yaw while on flightlines. Aircraft has
been
> indoors for at least 20 years, maybe longer. These brackets are a bear to
> get at. It's one of the few places on the Commander where I thought it
could
> have been made of a heavier gauge.
>
> Talk about rudders and slipping got me to remembering this. I'd be
> interested in hearing if anyone else has seen the same.
>
> Steve
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
I was an instructor at TWA (then owned by American) when American Flight
587. To keep this short, it was determined that after encountering turbulence
from a 747 in front of it, the flying pilot over controlled the A300 aircraft
in the yaw axis.
This over controlling of the rudder by rapid direction reversal is called a
Rudder Doublet. Contrary to popular belief, transport aircraft are only
required to demonstrate full travel of the rudder (at or below maneuvering speed)
from neutral to full deflection then back to neutral. Demonstration of full
deflection from stop to stop is not required!
Boeing put out a great paper on the subject and proudly pointed out that
their aircraft have never had structural problems with their tails because of
the extra design margins in the Boeing Aircraft vs. their French competitors
aircraft.
Proper use of the rudder became a priority in training after that.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commercial Use? |
In a message dated 01-Jan-06 09:22:03 Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
What would a simulated feather thrust setting be on a 680FL(P) Mr.RPM?
Tom,
With the IO-720, I'd use 14" and 2000 rpm. This is what I've found gave
equal performance (or lack of) to having one feathered on the long body MR RPMs.
If 14" MAP won't keep yours on the governor, you may have to up the MAP a bit.
This are approximate settings, of course. Each airplane seems to have a
different set-up.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
Rudder deflection on the B747 is relative to speed. At higher speed you
can't get full deflection.
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips
I was an instructor at TWA (then owned by American) when American Flight
587. To keep this short, it was determined that after encountering
turbulence
from a 747 in front of it, the flying pilot over controlled the A300
aircraft
in the yaw axis.
This over controlling of the rudder by rapid direction reversal is called a
Rudder Doublet. Contrary to popular belief, transport aircraft are only
required to demonstrate full travel of the rudder (at or below maneuvering
speed)
from neutral to full deflection then back to neutral. Demonstration of full
deflection from stop to stop is not required!
Boeing put out a great paper on the subject and proudly pointed out that
their aircraft have never had structural problems with their tails because
of
the extra design margins in the Boeing Aircraft vs. their French
competitors
aircraft.
Proper use of the rudder became a priority in training after that.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Happy New Year in Commanderland...!! |
New Years Greetings..!!
Just wanted to share some great Commander flying this holiday week. Loaded
up the 680F day after Christmas with 3 pairs of skies, 2 snow boards, about
8 big bags of clothing and gear, Christmas presents, and 5 persons (my wife,
son & girlfriend, daughter...and me) for our non-stop flight from SBP (San
Luis Obispo, CA) to SLC (Salt Lake City) for a week of fun at my sister's
house in Park City, UT. Total flight time - less than 3 hours. Not bad
considering we had to go south through Palmdale & Las Vegas because bad
weather over the Sierras didn't let us go direct at less than the MEA of
14,300 feet (not pressurized). After a week of spectacular skiing and
family fun, we piled it all back into the Commander this morning (New Year's
Day) for the flight home. The terrible weather in California once again
prevented a direct route home, so it was SLC to VGT (North Las Vegas for a
fuel & burger stop), then on to SBP, where we entered the nasty weather
around Palmdale (30-40 knot headwinds). The commander performed flawlessly
with a smooth ride at 11,000 feet (while the airliners all complained about
turbulence in the flight levels), with an ILS approach to SBP in heavy rain.
After parking, I backed my Ford Explorer up to the plane with the hatch back
open and overlapping the engine nacelle & flaps. We unloaded all the gear
into the car without even getting wet...can't do that in a low wing
airplane.
Anyway, I once again find myself so appreciative of the great qualities of
our cherished Twin Commander, after transporting our family in comfort and
safetly through the winter skies...thought I'd share it with you folks, who
can appreciate it too.
Best wishes to all of you for a Great New Year in Commanderland..!!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
You are right, That is true of most Transport aircraft. I was an MD-80
instructor and it also had a rudder limiter. However at lower speeds the rudder
limiter allows full travel. On the A300 the problem is that it has very light
rudder pressures for full defection (33 lbs) due to the fly by wire flight
control system. It is very easy to over control.
In the case of flight 587 the flying pilot created so much yaw from side to
side that the rudder, vertical fin and both engines separated from the
aircraft. It was below maneuvering speed by a good margin.
Good rudder handling habits are important in any airplane!
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RnJThompson(at)aol.com |
To all in Commanderland,
Have a great New Year. We had a fine day running at about 47 deg C. A little
warm.
Had a wonderful visit from Moe and Linn. It was great to see them.
Flew my Super Cub for the first time on Wednesday. After a complete rebuild
and changing from US reg to Oz reg. Havent flown one of these things for about
15 years. Funny how quickly it all comes back to you. You discover things
like what a rudders is used for and what torque does in a grossly overpowered
aircraft. Its all come back and a blast to fly although I am beginning to become
a little afraid of birdstrikes from the rear. Comming over the fence at 40
kts, feels like you could walk faster. But you also land and take off in a very
very short space.
Now thats finished I will be back on the 680E. Hopefully that can be done by
mid year.
Best wishes from OZ
Richard & Jacqui
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
Yes, I agree. Keep your feet on the floor.
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips
You are right, That is true of most Transport aircraft. I was an MD-80
instructor and it also had a rudder limiter. However at lower speeds the
rudder
limiter allows full travel. On the A300 the problem is that it has very
light
rudder pressures for full defection (33 lbs) due to the fly by wire flight
control system. It is very easy to over control.
In the case of flight 587 the flying pilot created so much yaw from side to
side that the rudder, vertical fin and both engines separated from the
aircraft. It was below maneuvering speed by a good margin.
Good rudder handling habits are important in any airplane!
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Happy New Year in Commanderland...!! |
GREAT STORY!! Thanks for sharing it. Happy New Year!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
CONGRATS RICHARD That ws a long road back. Happy Ne Year!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy New Year in Commanderland...!! |
Great vacation, Randy. Welcome home and a very prosperous 2006!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Happy New Year in Commanderland...!!
>
> New Years Greetings..!!
> Just wanted to share some great Commander flying this holiday week.
Loaded
> up the 680F day after Christmas with 3 pairs of skies, 2 snow boards,
about
> 8 big bags of clothing and gear, Christmas presents, and 5 persons (my
wife,
> son & girlfriend, daughter...and me) for our non-stop flight from SBP (San
> Luis Obispo, CA) to SLC (Salt Lake City) for a week of fun at my sister's
> house in Park City, UT. Total flight time - less than 3 hours. Not bad
> considering we had to go south through Palmdale & Las Vegas because bad
> weather over the Sierras didn't let us go direct at less than the MEA of
> 14,300 feet (not pressurized). After a week of spectacular skiing and
> family fun, we piled it all back into the Commander this morning (New
Year's
> Day) for the flight home. The terrible weather in California once again
> prevented a direct route home, so it was SLC to VGT (North Las Vegas for a
> fuel & burger stop), then on to SBP, where we entered the nasty weather
> around Palmdale (30-40 knot headwinds). The commander performed
flawlessly
> with a smooth ride at 11,000 feet (while the airliners all complained
about
> turbulence in the flight levels), with an ILS approach to SBP in heavy
rain.
> After parking, I backed my Ford Explorer up to the plane with the hatch
back
> open and overlapping the engine nacelle & flaps. We unloaded all the gear
> into the car without even getting wet...can't do that in a low wing
> airplane.
>
> Anyway, I once again find myself so appreciative of the great qualities of
> our cherished Twin Commander, after transporting our family in comfort and
> safetly through the winter skies...thought I'd share it with you folks,
who
> can appreciate it too.
>
> Best wishes to all of you for a Great New Year in Commanderland..!!!
>
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F/N6253X
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I guess there is just so much you can throw overboard before you change a
plane into a soon to be pile of crumpled aluminum.
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips
>
> You are right, That is true of most Transport aircraft. I was an MD-80
> instructor and it also had a rudder limiter. However at lower speeds the
rudder
> limiter allows full travel. On the A300 the problem is that it has very
light
> rudder pressures for full defection (33 lbs) due to the fly by wire flight
> control system. It is very easy to over control.
>
> In the case of flight 587 the flying pilot created so much yaw from side
to
> side that the rudder, vertical fin and both engines separated from the
> aircraft. It was below maneuvering speed by a good margin.
>
> Good rudder handling habits are important in any airplane!
>
> Bill Leff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
Steve,
My 500A (#1274) is the same, and it sure is hard to get at, So far I
am just monitoring, while a work out a doable repair scheme.
I also have the "standard"crack in the nose wheel support structure,
where the shaft #5750039-11 and bearings #SF1301-1 reside, but at
least this will be a tad easier to repair.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton
At 01:14 2/01/2006, you wrote:
>
>Good, I'm not the only one to give the rudder a little boot on final
>sometimes. Doesn't slip like a Cub, but gets the job done and I don't have
>to mess with power. We need a steeper approach than standard at home base.
>
>Speaking of rudders, we noticed something last annual that was really tough
>to see. On the bulkhead ahead of the pilot's feet (forgot the number) are
>two rudder pulleys on either side of the airframe. They are a bitch to get
>at. After pulling the side nose inspection panel off, we noticed a 1/4 inch
>long crack at the top of the rudder pulley bracket. It takes some work, but
>we also saw the same crack on the 'back' side of the bracket.
>
>Since we saw it on the one bracket, we took a real hard look at the other
>side and found the same two cracks on the opposite side pulley brackets. The
>airframe's got about 8000 hours on it, and it is used for survey work where
>rudder is used often to correct yaw while on flightlines. Aircraft has been
>indoors for at least 20 years, maybe longer. These brackets are a bear to
>get at. It's one of the few places on the Commander where I thought it could
>have been made of a heavier gauge.
>
>Talk about rudders and slipping got me to remembering this. I'd be
>interested in hearing if anyone else has seen the same.
>
>Steve
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet
Services and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the
addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged
information.If you are not the intended recipient any use
distribution,disclosure or copying of this message is strictly
prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this
communication are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken
delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
Good morning Bill,
The four cracks were nearly identical in length on ours, and we're
monitoring also. We did put a tiny stop-drill on each, but seeing as they
cracked to a certain point and no further, we're wondering if they perhaps
become somewhat stable over time once that intital crack forms?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "W J R HAMILTON" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets
>
>
> Steve,
> My 500A (#1274) is the same, and it sure is hard to get at, So far I
> am just monitoring, while a work out a doable repair scheme.
> I also have the "standard"crack in the nose wheel support structure,
> where the shaft #5750039-11 and bearings #SF1301-1 reside, but at
> least this will be a tad easier to repair.
> Regards,
> Bill Hamilton
>
>
> At 01:14 2/01/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>Good, I'm not the only one to give the rudder a little boot on final
>>sometimes. Doesn't slip like a Cub, but gets the job done and I don't have
>>to mess with power. We need a steeper approach than standard at home base.
>>
>>Speaking of rudders, we noticed something last annual that was really
>>tough
>>to see. On the bulkhead ahead of the pilot's feet (forgot the number) are
>>two rudder pulleys on either side of the airframe. They are a bitch to get
>>at. After pulling the side nose inspection panel off, we noticed a 1/4
>>inch
>>long crack at the top of the rudder pulley bracket. It takes some work,
>>but
>>we also saw the same crack on the 'back' side of the bracket.
>>
>>Since we saw it on the one bracket, we took a real hard look at the other
>>side and found the same two cracks on the opposite side pulley brackets.
>>The
>>airframe's got about 8000 hours on it, and it is used for survey work
>>where
>>rudder is used often to correct yaw while on flightlines. Aircraft has
>>been
>>indoors for at least 20 years, maybe longer. These brackets are a bear to
>>get at. It's one of the few places on the Commander where I thought it
>>could
>>have been made of a heavier gauge.
>>
>>Talk about rudders and slipping got me to remembering this. I'd be
>>interested in hearing if anyone else has seen the same.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
> W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet
> Services and Warbirds.Net. & .
> This message is intended for and should only be used by the
> addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged
> information.If you are not the intended recipient any use
> distribution,disclosure or copying of this message is strictly
> prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this
> communication are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken
> delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
> notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
> Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
In fact, my first trip back to MD80 training after the airbus we had quite
an argument over rudder use.
Prior to the entrail restrictions behind 757s, at DFW and elsewhere, before
the guy ahead of you had completed his rotaion they would clear you for
takeoff which put you right into the rather nasty vortecies generated by
the 757. The width of the vortex was such that it completely blanked out
the MD80 ailerons. So right after T.O. (happened twice to me) you are in an
uncommanded ninety degree bank with full opposite aileron and still
rolling. Your only effective controll is the rudder.
My feeling was that Boeing and the attorneys were going to cause more
trouble by discouraging it's use than by teaching it's proper use.
Phil
> [Original Message]
> From: <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Date: 1/1/2006 12:54:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips
>
>
> I was an instructor at TWA (then owned by American) when American Flight
> 587. To keep this short, it was determined that after encountering
turbulence
> from a 747 in front of it, the flying pilot over controlled the A300
aircraft
> in the yaw axis.
>
> This over controlling of the rudder by rapid direction reversal is called
a
> Rudder Doublet. Contrary to popular belief, transport aircraft are only
> required to demonstrate full travel of the rudder (at or below
maneuvering speed)
> from neutral to full deflection then back to neutral. Demonstration of
full
> deflection from stop to stop is not required!
>
> Boeing put out a great paper on the subject and proudly pointed out that
> their aircraft have never had structural problems with their tails
because of
> the extra design margins in the Boeing Aircraft vs. their French
competitors
> aircraft.
>
> Proper use of the rudder became a priority in training after that.
>
> Bill Leff
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Berry" <bertberry1(at)aol.com> |
Thanks Bill
I wondered what that was all about.
We had the first 681 built SN 6001 it was a good machine but noisy.
Thanks
Bert
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:19:13
To:commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
Around 1979 Commander decided to reduce the price of the 690B by removing
some of the standard equipment such as the co-pilot's HSI. They then lowered
the price about $100K.
The B-II was the completely equipped, higher priced, version. Systems and
mechanically they are the same.
Rockwell did the same thin when they introduced the 681B. It was just a
striped down 681 to lower the cost.
Bill Leff
bertberry1(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
| From: | "Bert Berry" <bertberry1(at)aol.com> |
Which Commanders came standard with geared engines?
Bert
-----Original Message-----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:12:55
To:
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
Nico,
The situation with geared engines is that the engines can never be used to
slow the airplane down. The prop should always be driven by the crankshaft.
Also, on the ground the engines should never be run below about 1,200 RPM
(1,500 is better) with the Simmonds fuel pumps. At lower RPM the engines
will surge which loads and unloads the sun gear against the planetary gears.
I won't go into the part about the 5/16" bolts that hold the gear drive to
the drive plate.
Regards,
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
> What's the vertical speed requirement that would cause one to slip, or is
it
> to avoid throttling back on the engines?
> Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
>
>
> >
> > JB,
> >
> > Thanks for the tip. I have been slipping pretty heavy at 100 MPH with
> full
> > flaps. N680RR has dual air speed indicators, with a pitot tube on each
> > side. Will try to check them against each other on next slipping
approach
> > to see if there is any difference in the upstream and downstream sides.
> >
> > Moe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
> >
> >
> > >
> > > HI MOE.
> > >
> > > I keep my commander on a 2400 strip with real 50 foot
obstructions
> on
> > > both ends. I routinely slip the airplane. It slips fairly well. I
> have
> > only
> > > slipped it with full flaps. No adverse handling characteristics, it
> > recovers
> > > naturally, all by itself. There is no tendency to drop the nose, nor
> > does
> > > it pitch up (like some floatplanes).
> > > I have slipped to an airspeed as low as 60KIAS, although I think
> the
> > > pitot tube gets blocked a bit in the slip so the speed may have been
a
> > little
> > > higher. The only caution is that once slowed, the Commander takes a
> bit
> > of
> > > encouragement to re accelerate so plan for that. Have fun jb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
bertberry1(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben(at)gmpexpress.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
Bert,
Here is a page I use to compare models:
http://www.aerocommander.com/aircraft.asp
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Berry
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
Which Commanders came standard with geared engines?
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Geared engined Commanders |
Hi Bert,
I'm hoping this list of geared-engined Commanders (standard, ex-factory) is
complete..........
Geared:
520; 560; 560A; 560A(HC); 560E.
Geared & Supercharged:
680; 680E; 720.
Geared & Fuel Injected:
560F.
Geared, Supercharged & Fuel Injected:
680F; 680F(P); 680FL; 680FLP; 685.
........but if it isn't, I'm absolutely certain that somebody will shout -
LOUDLY!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Berry" <bertberry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
|
| Which Commanders came standard with geared engines?
|
| Bert
| -----Original Message-----
| From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
| Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:12:55
| To:
| Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
|
|
| Nico,
|
| The situation with geared engines is that the engines can never be used to
| slow the airplane down. The prop should always be driven by the crankshaft.
| Also, on the ground the engines should never be run below about 1,200 RPM
| (1,500 is better) with the Simmonds fuel pumps. At lower RPM the engines
| will surge which loads and unloads the sun gear against the planetary gears.
| I won't go into the part about the 5/16" bolts that hold the gear drive to
| the drive plate.
|
| Regards,
|
| Moe
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
| To:
| Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
|
|
|
| >
| > What's the vertical speed requirement that would cause one to slip, or is
| it
| > to avoid throttling back on the engines?
| > Nico
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
| > To:
| > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
| >
| >
| > >
| > > JB,
| > >
| > > Thanks for the tip. I have been slipping pretty heavy at 100 MPH with
| > full
| > > flaps. N680RR has dual air speed indicators, with a pitot tube on each
| > > side. Will try to check them against each other on next slipping
| approach
| > > to see if there is any difference in the upstream and downstream sides.
| > >
| > > Moe
| > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
| > > To:
| > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
| > >
| > >
| > > >
| > > > HI MOE.
| > > >
| > > > I keep my commander on a 2400 strip with real 50 foot
| obstructions
| > on
| > > > both ends. I routinely slip the airplane. It slips fairly well. I
| > have
| > > only
| > > > slipped it with full flaps. No adverse handling characteristics, it
| > > recovers
| > > > naturally, all by itself. There is no tendency to drop the nose, nor
| > > does
| > > > it pitch up (like some floatplanes).
| > > > I have slipped to an airspeed as low as 60KIAS, although I think
| > the
| > > > pitot tube gets blocked a bit in the slip so the speed may have been
| a
| > > little
| > > > higher. The only caution is that once slowed, the Commander takes a
| > bit
| > > of
| > > > encouragement to re accelerate so plan for that. Have fun jb
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
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| bertberry1(at)aol.com
|
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
| From: | "Bert Berry" <bertberry1(at)aol.com> |
Thanks Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben(at)gmpexpress.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:28:00
To:
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
Bert,
Here is a page I use to compare models:
http://www.aerocommander.com/aircraft.asp
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: Bert Berry
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
Which Commanders came standard with geared engines?
Bert
bertberry1(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Geared engined Commanders |
| From: | "Bert Berry" <bertberry1(at)aol.com> |
Thanks Barry,
I wonder how the K seriers Cont. That were put on the later 685's would have worked
on the 680FLP?
Bert
-----Original Message-----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 00:27:13
To:
Subject: Commander-List: Geared engined Commanders
Hi Bert,
I'm hoping this list of geared-engined Commanders (standard, ex-factory) is
complete..........
Geared:
520; 560; 560A; 560A(HC); 560E.
Geared & Supercharged:
680; 680E; 720.
Geared & Fuel Injected:
560F.
Geared, Supercharged & Fuel Injected:
680F; 680F(P); 680FL; 680FLP; 685.
........but if it isn't, I'm absolutely certain that somebody will shout -
LOUDLY!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Berry" <bertberry1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
|
| Which Commanders came standard with geared engines?
|
| Bert
| -----Original Message-----
| From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
| Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:12:55
| To:
| Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
|
|
| Nico,
|
| The situation with geared engines is that the engines can never be used to
| slow the airplane down. The prop should always be driven by the crankshaft.
| Also, on the ground the engines should never be run below about 1,200 RPM
| (1,500 is better) with the Simmonds fuel pumps. At lower RPM the engines
| will surge which loads and unloads the sun gear against the planetary gears.
| I won't go into the part about the 5/16" bolts that hold the gear drive to
| the drive plate.
|
| Regards,
|
| Moe
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
| To:
| Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
|
|
|
| >
| > What's the vertical speed requirement that would cause one to slip, or is
| it
| > to avoid throttling back on the engines?
| > Nico
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
| > To:
| > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
| >
| >
| > >
| > > JB,
| > >
| > > Thanks for the tip. I have been slipping pretty heavy at 100 MPH with
| > full
| > > flaps. N680RR has dual air speed indicators, with a pitot tube on each
| > > side. Will try to check them against each other on next slipping
| approach
| > > to see if there is any difference in the upstream and downstream sides.
| > >
| > > Moe
| > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
| > > To:
| > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander decent
| > >
| > >
| > > >
| > > > HI MOE.
| > > >
| > > > I keep my commander on a 2400 strip with real 50 foot
| obstructions
| > on
| > > > both ends. I routinely slip the airplane. It slips fairly well. I
| > have
| > > only
| > > > slipped it with full flaps. No adverse handling characteristics, it
| > > recovers
| > > > naturally, all by itself. There is no tendency to drop the nose, nor
| > > does
| > > > it pitch up (like some floatplanes).
| > > > I have slipped to an airspeed as low as 60KIAS, although I think
| > the
| > > > pitot tube gets blocked a bit in the slip so the speed may have been
| a
| > > little
| > > > higher. The only caution is that once slowed, the Commander takes a
| > bit
| > > of
| > > > encouragement to re accelerate so plan for that. Have fun jb
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
|
|
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|
| bertberry1(at)aol.com
|
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|
bertberry1(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Geared engined Commanders |
In a message dated 02-Jan-06 16:47:12 Pacific Standard Time,
bertberry1(at)aol.com writes:
I wonder how the K seriers Cont. That were put on the later 685's would have
worked on the 680FLP?
>>>
>>>
They would have consumed the same 3 cylinders per year just like they do on
the AC-685 ...
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Geared engined Commanders |
In a message dated 1/2/2006 4:30:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
........but if it isn't, I'm absolutely certain that somebody will shout -
LOUDLY!
Well done "Sir" Barry!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Geared engined Commanders |
In a message dated 1/2/2006 4:47:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
bertberry1(at)aol.com writes:
I wonder how the K seriers Cont. That were put on the later 685's would have
worked on the 680FLP?
Just a poorly as they did on the 685. The problem was the propeller. They
never created a proper propeller for the 425HP Cont. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
It is with great sadness that I report Sue and I lost our wonderful Wire Fox
Terrier, Molly, on Christmas day. She was only 8 years old. She died in
our arms of cancer. Molly (short for "Chromoly") was a wonderful, smart,
saucy, sassy dear friend who had spent more time in Commanders than many who own
them, and we miss her deeply. Those of you who knew her know what I mean.
God Bless all of our pets this night. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COMMANDER560(at)cs.com |
JB, sorry about your loss, we have many family members other than humans,
seven dogs, one cat, feel sorry for your loss. Joe Shepherd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Jim, Sue,
Our thoughts go out to you. The loss of a member of your family at such a
young age is a tragedy. All us Dog People understand....most especially
those of us with dogs who are Commander People as well. I'm sure that Molly
knew just how much she was loved.
/John & Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: MOLLY
>
> It is with great sadness that I report Sue and I lost our wonderful Wire
Fox
> Terrier, Molly, on Christmas day. She was only 8 years old. She died in
> our arms of cancer. Molly (short for "Chromoly") was a wonderful, smart,
> saucy, sassy dear friend who had spent more time in Commanders than many
who own
> them, and we miss her deeply. Those of you who knew her know what I
mean.
> God Bless all of our pets this night. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Jim & Sue,
My sincerest sympathies on your loss of Molly. As always she shared some
great Commander stories with many of us!
Russell
On 3/1/06 1:46 PM, "YOURTCFG(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> It is with great sadness that I report Sue and I lost our wonderful Wire Fox
> Terrier, Molly, on Christmas day. She was only 8 years old. She died in
> our arms of cancer. Molly (short for "Chromoly") was a wonderful, smart,
> saucy, sassy dear friend who had spent more time in Commanders than many who
> own
> them, and we miss her deeply. Those of you who knew her know what I mean.
> God Bless all of our pets this night. jb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Jim & Sue,
Special thoughts go out to you both from me & Elaine.
Molly was indeed a special character and I know you will both be more than
deeply saddened at her passing.
Barry & Elaine.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: MOLLY
|
| It is with great sadness that I report Sue and I lost our wonderful Wire Fox
| Terrier, Molly, on Christmas day. She was only 8 years old. She died in
| our arms of cancer. Molly (short for "Chromoly") was a wonderful, smart,
| saucy, sassy dear friend who had spent more time in Commanders than many who
own
| them, and we miss her deeply. Those of you who knew her know what I mean.
| God Bless all of our pets this night. jb
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
Steve,
What model Commander was this on?
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets
>
> Good, I'm not the only one to give the rudder a little boot on final
> sometimes. Doesn't slip like a Cub, but gets the job done and I don't have
> to mess with power. We need a steeper approach than standard at home base.
>
> Speaking of rudders, we noticed something last annual that was really
tough
> to see. On the bulkhead ahead of the pilot's feet (forgot the number) are
> two rudder pulleys on either side of the airframe. They are a bitch to get
> at. After pulling the side nose inspection panel off, we noticed a 1/4
inch
> long crack at the top of the rudder pulley bracket. It takes some work,
but
> we also saw the same crack on the 'back' side of the bracket.
>
> Since we saw it on the one bracket, we took a real hard look at the other
> side and found the same two cracks on the opposite side pulley brackets.
The
> airframe's got about 8000 hours on it, and it is used for survey work
where
> rudder is used often to correct yaw while on flightlines. Aircraft has
been
> indoors for at least 20 years, maybe longer. These brackets are a bear to
> get at. It's one of the few places on the Commander where I thought it
could
> have been made of a heavier gauge.
>
> Talk about rudders and slipping got me to remembering this. I'd be
> interested in hearing if anyone else has seen the same.
>
> Steve
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Richard & Jacqui,
Linn and I had a really great time, as we always do in your country. Thank
you so very much for showing me what the local gentry are flying.
Moe
Happy to hear that the paper work came through on the Cub.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RnJThompson(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Re: New Year
>
> To all in Commanderland,
>
> Have a great New Year. We had a fine day running at about 47 deg C. A
little
> warm.
> Had a wonderful visit from Moe and Linn. It was great to see them.
>
> Flew my Super Cub for the first time on Wednesday. After a complete
rebuild
> and changing from US reg to Oz reg. Havent flown one of these things for
about
> 15 years. Funny how quickly it all comes back to you. You discover things
> like what a rudders is used for and what torque does in a grossly
overpowered
> aircraft. Its all come back and a blast to fly although I am beginning to
become
> a little afraid of birdstrikes from the rear. Comming over the fence at
40
> kts, feels like you could walk faster. But you also land and take off in a
very
> very short space.
>
> Now thats finished I will be back on the 680E. Hopefully that can be done
by
> mid year.
>
> Best wishes from OZ
>
> Richard & Jacqui
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve2" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
1961 500B (Converted from an A in 1966 I think.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets
>
> Steve,
>
> What model Commander was this on?
>
> Moe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets
>
>
>>
>> Good, I'm not the only one to give the rudder a little boot on final
>> sometimes. Doesn't slip like a Cub, but gets the job done and I don't
>> have
>> to mess with power. We need a steeper approach than standard at home
>> base.
>>
>> Speaking of rudders, we noticed something last annual that was really
> tough
>> to see. On the bulkhead ahead of the pilot's feet (forgot the number) are
>> two rudder pulleys on either side of the airframe. They are a bitch to
>> get
>> at. After pulling the side nose inspection panel off, we noticed a 1/4
> inch
>> long crack at the top of the rudder pulley bracket. It takes some work,
> but
>> we also saw the same crack on the 'back' side of the bracket.
>>
>> Since we saw it on the one bracket, we took a real hard look at the other
>> side and found the same two cracks on the opposite side pulley brackets.
> The
>> airframe's got about 8000 hours on it, and it is used for survey work
> where
>> rudder is used often to correct yaw while on flightlines. Aircraft has
> been
>> indoors for at least 20 years, maybe longer. These brackets are a bear to
>> get at. It's one of the few places on the Commander where I thought it
> could
>> have been made of a heavier gauge.
>>
>> Talk about rudders and slipping got me to remembering this. I'd be
>> interested in hearing if anyone else has seen the same.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve2" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
So sorry about Molly.
We lost our Mollie a couple years back, a black lab, also eight years old.
We had expected her to be with us as long as her 'grandmother', a lovely,
creaky old dog of 14. Damn cancer.
She's buried under a crab apple tree we planted at our new house. LuLu is
eight and going strong, Maggie we got a couple months after we lost Mollie.
It's never easy, especially when they leave sooner than we expected..
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: MOLLY
>
> It is with great sadness that I report Sue and I lost our wonderful Wire
> Fox
> Terrier, Molly, on Christmas day. She was only 8 years old. She died in
> our arms of cancer. Molly (short for "Chromoly") was a wonderful, smart,
> saucy, sassy dear friend who had spent more time in Commanders than many
> who own
> them, and we miss her deeply. Those of you who knew her know what I
> mean.
> God Bless all of our pets this night. jb
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
My Bridget was lost with my 500B in an ocean ditching in '99.
No doubt she and Molly are keeping each other company exchanging Commander
tales.
I was also once married to a Molly for three years.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve2" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: MOLLY
>
> So sorry about Molly.
>
> We lost our Mollie a couple years back, a black lab, also eight years old.
> We had expected her to be with us as long as her 'grandmother', a lovely,
> creaky old dog of 14. Damn cancer.
>
> She's buried under a crab apple tree we planted at our new house. LuLu is
> eight and going strong, Maggie we got a couple months after we lost
Mollie.
>
> It's never easy, especially when they leave sooner than we expected..
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: MOLLY
>
>
> >
> > It is with great sadness that I report Sue and I lost our wonderful
Wire
> > Fox
> > Terrier, Molly, on Christmas day. She was only 8 years old. She died
in
> > our arms of cancer. Molly (short for "Chromoly") was a wonderful,
smart,
> > saucy, sassy dear friend who had spent more time in Commanders than
many
> > who own
> > them, and we miss her deeply. Those of you who knew her know what I
> > mean.
> > God Bless all of our pets this night. jb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
Steve,
That seems possible, as close as I can get to the brackets to see,
the original crack looks quite old, and the engineers who had been
looking after the aircraft for some years, before I bought it
indicated that they had not observed any change, but in those few
years the aircraft did only low annual hours. My total airframe time
is about 11,000, some of it on quite rough strips.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 00:57 3/01/2006, you wrote:
>
>Good morning Bill,
>
>The four cracks were nearly identical in length on ours, and we're
>monitoring also. We did put a tiny stop-drill on each, but seeing as they
>cracked to a certain point and no further, we're wondering if they perhaps
>become somewhat stable over time once that intital crack forms?
>
>Steve
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet
Services and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the
addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged
information.If you are not the intended recipient any use
distribution,disclosure or copying of this message is strictly
prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this
communication are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken
delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
My 500B has 18,000 hours on it. My rudder pulley brackets are cracked.
Morris includes an inspection of them on his 100hr. inspection sheet. He
informed me that when they manufactured the brackets, they folded them but
didn't stress relieve the corners. He's seen multitudes of cracked ones, and
he says even the ones that haven't been stop drilled only crack to a certain
point. He says it's a problem he's been aware of only for the last 20 years
or so.
He is of the opinion that they probably cracked about 10 minutes after the
airframe was built (ok, maybe a little longer than that). He's also
mentioned that he's never *ever* seen or heard of one failing.
I guess I'll just continue to keep an eye on my pulleys, and see if anything
changes....
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "W J R HAMILTON" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets
>
> Steve,
> That seems possible, as close as I can get to the brackets to see,
> the original crack looks quite old, and the engineers who had been
> looking after the aircraft for some years, before I bought it
> indicated that they had not observed any change, but in those few
> years the aircraft did only low annual hours. My total airframe time
> is about 11,000, some of it on quite rough strips.
> Cheers,
> Bill Hamilton
>
>
> At 00:57 3/01/2006, you wrote:
> >
> >Good morning Bill,
> >
> >The four cracks were nearly identical in length on ours, and we're
> >monitoring also. We did put a tiny stop-drill on each, but seeing as they
> >cracked to a certain point and no further, we're wondering if they
perhaps
> >become somewhat stable over time once that intital crack forms?
> >
> >Steve
> CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
> W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet
> Services and Warbirds.Net. & .
> This message is intended for and should only be used by the
> addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged
> information.If you are not the intended recipient any use
> distribution,disclosure or copying of this message is strictly
> prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this
> communication are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken
> delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
> notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
> Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap |
Hello,
I am trying to find a fuel cap for a Commander 680 FLP. I have a part number,
"416-67" however I'm not sure if it's the right cap for my plane. The cap
on the plane I fly is about 21/2" diameter with a zeus-fastener type screw head
in the center. There is no latch to flip up. This "zeus fastner" connects
with the flap mechanism in the top of the tank. The cap fits very flush with
the top of the wing. The cap spring mechanism which holds pressure on the zeus
connection is damaged.
I had the parts guy at the local airport look through his parts computer but
have not seen a cap like mine pictured. Even so, the price for those that had
no picture and might have been the correct cap were asking $400,...a very high
price for such a simple device.
Does anyone out there know where I can get one.
Thanks,
Ray Mansfield
N91ES
Note: This plane may be up for sale soon. Not sure of asking price yet, there's
a picture of this plane on this web site.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap |
Hi Ray,
If you're going to pay *that* much for an original fuel cap, you might as
well pay a couple bucks more and get this cap that I just had installed on
my airplane: http://www.commander-aero.com/caps.htm
The folks at Commander Aero are great, too!
If you want to scrounge an original cap and maybe save some $$, try Morris
Kernick here in CA, Mason Chevailler (who posts on this list) or Jack
Chappell or Harry Merritt, both in FL I think. I have Morris' contact info,
321-403-8813 but you'll have to depend on someone else here on the list for
numbers etc. of the others.
Good luck,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap
>
> Hello,
>
> I am trying to find a fuel cap for a Commander 680 FLP. I have a part
number, "416-67" however I'm not sure if it's the right cap for my plane.
The cap on the plane I fly is about 21/2" diameter with a zeus-fastener type
screw head in the center. There is no latch to flip up. This "zeus
fastner" connects with the flap mechanism in the top of the tank. The cap
fits very flush with the top of the wing. The cap spring mechanism which
holds pressure on the zeus connection is damaged.
>
> I had the parts guy at the local airport look through his parts
computer but have not seen a cap like mine pictured. Even so, the price for
those that had no picture and might have been the correct cap were asking
$400,...a very high price for such a simple device.
>
> Does anyone out there know where I can get one.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Mansfield
> N91ES
>
> Note: This plane may be up for sale soon. Not sure of asking price yet,
there's a picture of this plane on this web site.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 500A Cover and rudder brace
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
Hi gang,
Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I am now the
guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking a little goofy
trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so its pilot
will look as good as the Commander.
Craig Lundborg
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
Hi gang, Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I am now
the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking a little
goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it? Love my
new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so its pilot will look as
good as the Commander. Craig Lundborg
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
Craig:
Congrats on your new acquisition!
Commander Aero has rudder gust locks, although a number of owners have
fashioned their own.
Bruce's Custom Covers does canvas covers for your bird:
http://www.aircraftcovers.com/
I looked at doing this but opted instead for heat shields from Cunningham:
http://www.cunninghamcovers.com/
They make all the difference in Southern California heat.
If you have any 500A specific questions, I may be able to help. Feel free
to contact me any time. Mine is a Colemill Conversion, 1962 #1256-80. You
can see more about mine at:
http://akucheck.squarespace.com/ or contact me at:
akucheck at gmail dot com
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 500A Cover and rudder brace
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
Hi gang,
Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I am
now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking a
little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so
its pilot will look as good as the Commander.
Craig Lundborg
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
Hi gang, Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I
am now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking
a little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so its pilot
will look as good as the Commander. Craig Lundborg
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579--
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
Craig,
The answer for control locks is again Commander Aero.
http://www.commander-aero.com/locks.htm
They have both internal and external.
Some have made their own with some wood, a stick and a rubber chicken.
Welcome to Flying and driving a Twin Commander. Anyone can fly a
twin commander, but it takes about 100 hours to learn how to drive one.
When I checked out in a Twin Commander, they forgot to tell me how to
really drive it.
The nose wheel on the short body commander has very little weight on
it. It takes locking you knees and using your toes to lightly push
on the upper part of the rudder peddles. It is a light touch to
steer the nose wheel with out getting into the breaks.
In a strong cross wind, she will want to weather vane into the wind.
It take lots of differential power to make it go the direction you
want it to go. Heavy on the up wind engine. I almost lost it into
the weeds on a strong cross wind. I was turning left and it went
right as it weather vaned on me.
I did take it out on a windy day on a large ramp to just play with
it, until I got the hang of steering and differential power. I was
in Garden City, KS and had to taxi out to the only runway in winds
that were steady at 25kts with gusts to 35 at 70 degrees to the
runway. Once I got the differential power going and the speed up, it
was easy to handle. Upwind power to get the speed up and once you
get 40mph, it is all rudder and forget the steering.
Have fun with your new bird.
Tylor Hall
>
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
> From: Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: 500A Cover and rudder brace
> To: YourTCFG(at)aol.com
>
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang,
> Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas
> cover ....I am now the guy that is spotted at airports steering
> erradically and looking a little goofy trying to taxi in a straight
> line...how do you guys do it?
> Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to
> pass so its pilot will look as good as the Commander.
>
> Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang, Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas
> cover ....I am now the guy that is spotted at airports steering
> erradically and looking a little goofy trying to taxi in a straight
> line...how do you guys do it? Love my new bird and can't wait for
> the training time to pass so its pilot will look as good as the
> Commander. Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "alh1(at)juno.com" <alh1(at)juno.com> |
what i do for taxes is to total the amount spent and divide that by the hours flown
to get a cost per hour. that is around $400 per hour. i then keep records
to show where i have flown and deduct on schedule c that amount that was for
business. i suggest we put this on the commander web site to see what the others
have to say. al hoffman n628ah
this gets very complicated because i keep the aircraft in a corporation since i
do not want the liability of the two other perople who operate the aircraft.
in florida, the owner and the operator are both liable for any damage. i have
a lien on the plane for all the money i advance for purchase and capital repairs.
this is overly simple as there are other things i do to protect me from
liability, but make taxes tough. under this system, i am liable for anything
that happens when i am flying, but not when someone else is flying.
any discussion or suggestions?
what i do for taxes is to total the amount spent and divide that by the hours flown
to get a cost per hour. that is around $400 per hour. i then keep records
to show where i have flown and deduct on schedule c that amount that was for
business. i suggest we put this on the commander web site to see what the others
have to say. al hoffman n628ah
this gets very complicated because i keep the aircraft in a corporation since i
do not want the liability of the two other perople who operate the aircraft.
in florida, the owner and the operator are both liable for any damage. i have
a lien on the plane for all the money i advance for purchase and capital repairs.
this is overly simple as there are other things i do to protect me from liability,
but make taxes tough. under this system, i am liable for anything that
happens when i am flying, but not when someone else is flying.
any discussion or suggestions?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
Craig,
Congratulations, you will love your airplane. I will have had mine 25 years
this coming April first. I have tried to trade it several times but have
always after looking at it decided for my needs my 500A (Cont-IO-470's) was
all I needed. If I can be of any help let me know.
Jim Addington
jtaddington(at)charter.net
940-566-2651
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 500A Cover and rudder brace
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
Hi gang,
Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I am
now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking a
little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so
its pilot will look as good as the Commander.
Craig Lundborg
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
Hi gang, Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I
am now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking
a little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so its pilot
will look as good as the Commander. Craig Lundborg
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
Jim,
I owned a stock straight 500 and it appeared to outperform the A model. I
once took a 500A up for a short flight and felt it should've done better
compared to the 500 in terms of climb and cruise performance. The other
thing was, of course, the reliability and TBO of the Lycomings. With the
necessary soft-hand handling and care, we could take them well beyond the
2,000 hr TBO without top overhauls. I doubt whether Continentals would let
you fly past 1,000 hours or so before requiring some sun light on the
pistons.
My recollection of the A's performance is admittedly wholly suspect, so your
perception would be appreciated.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
>
> Craig,
> Congratulations, you will love your airplane. I will have had mine 25
years
> this coming April first. I have tried to trade it several times but have
> always after looking at it decided for my needs my 500A (Cont-IO-470's)
was
> all I needed. If I can be of any help let me know.
> Jim Addington
> jtaddington(at)charter.net
> 940-566-2651
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
>
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
> From: Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: 500A Cover and rudder brace
> To: YourTCFG(at)aol.com
>
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang,
> Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I am
> now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking a
> little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
> Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so
> its pilot will look as good as the Commander.
>
> Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang, Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I
> am now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and
looking
> a little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
> Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so its pilot
> will look as good as the Commander. Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Rudder Pulley Brackets |
John,
Thanks for that, your reply is reassuring, I will just keep the
inspections going.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 13:47 4/01/2006, you wrote:
>
>My 500B has 18,000 hours on it. My rudder pulley brackets are cracked.
>Morris includes an inspection of them on his 100hr. inspection sheet. He
>informed me that when they manufactured the brackets, they folded them but
>didn't stress relieve the corners. He's seen multitudes of cracked ones, and
>he says even the ones that haven't been stop drilled only crack to a certain
>point. He says it's a problem he's been aware of only for the last 20 years
>or so.
>
>He is of the opinion that they probably cracked about 10 minutes after the
>airframe was built (ok, maybe a little longer than that). He's also
>mentioned that he's never *ever* seen or heard of one failing.
>
>I guess I'll just continue to keep an eye on my pulleys, and see if anything
>changes....
>
>/John
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet
Services and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the
addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged
information.If you are not the intended recipient any use
distribution,disclosure or copying of this message is strictly
prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this
communication are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken
delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap |
Ray,
Have a talk to a DER about replacing the cap with the more readily
available types., and fit under a 337.
The size of the fitting, PCD ( bolt circle diameter ) and number of
fasteners coincides with a standard AN/Mil size, and they are
available for around $50 or so, as a complete unit, receptacle and cap.
Shaw Aero Devices is what I have used, it will look something like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AIRCRAFT-FUEL-CAP-ASSEMBLY_W0QQitemZ4590621178QQcategoryZ26439QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
If the link doesn't work, the eBay item number is: 4590621178
[]
And comes in various sizes, one of which fits my 500A like it's the
original, for an un-vented cap.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 12:41 5/01/2006, you wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
> I am trying to find a fuel cap for a Commander 680 FLP. I have
> a part number, "416-67" however I'm not sure if it's the right cap
> for my plane. The cap on the plane I fly is about 21/2" diameter
> with a zeus-fastener type screw head in the center. There is no
> latch to flip up. This "zeus fastner" connects with the flap
> mechanism in the top of the tank. The cap fits very flush with the
> top of the wing. The cap spring mechanism which holds pressure on
> the zeus connection is damaged.
>
> I had the parts guy at the local airport look through his parts
> computer but have not seen a cap like mine pictured. Even so, the
> price for those that had no picture and might have been the correct
> cap were asking $400,...a very high price for such a simple device.
>
> Does anyone out there know where I can get one.
>
> Thanks,
>
>Ray Mansfield
>N91ES
>
>Note: This plane may be up for sale soon. Not sure of asking price
>yet, there's a picture of this plane on this web site.
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet
Services and Warbirds.Net. & .
This message is intended for and should only be used by the
addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged
information.If you are not the intended recipient any use
distribution,disclosure or copying of this message is strictly
prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this
communication are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken
delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
Nico,
I have only gotten to fly the 500A and 500B. I have heard that the 500 with
the Lyc's does have a little more oomph, no substitute for Cubic inches.
When you have not flown something with more power you don't miss it. I
usually get 175 to 185 mph cruse but I have added so many extras on my plane
that it is a little heavy and does not climb like it use to. I need to add
some weight to the tail and get the CG back some which would help some on
the cruse. I usually burn about 23 gals per hour total fuel.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of css nico
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
Jim,
I owned a stock straight 500 and it appeared to outperform the A model. I
once took a 500A up for a short flight and felt it should've done better
compared to the 500 in terms of climb and cruise performance. The other
thing was, of course, the reliability and TBO of the Lycomings. With the
necessary soft-hand handling and care, we could take them well beyond the
2,000 hr TBO without top overhauls. I doubt whether Continentals would let
you fly past 1,000 hours or so before requiring some sun light on the
pistons.
My recollection of the A's performance is admittedly wholly suspect, so your
perception would be appreciated.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
>
> Craig,
> Congratulations, you will love your airplane. I will have had mine 25
years
> this coming April first. I have tried to trade it several times but have
> always after looking at it decided for my needs my 500A (Cont-IO-470's)
was
> all I needed. If I can be of any help let me know.
> Jim Addington
> jtaddington(at)charter.net
> 940-566-2651
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
>
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
> From: Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: 500A Cover and rudder brace
> To: YourTCFG(at)aol.com
>
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang,
> Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I am
> now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking a
> little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
> Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so
> its pilot will look as good as the Commander.
>
> Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang, Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I
> am now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and
looking
> a little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
> Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so its pilot
> will look as good as the Commander. Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
There is a AD 73-06-02 that requires the aircraft to have the type you
lost! You aircraft will not be airworthy if you change the fuel cap and
receptacle. I have a use cap. jack has some new ones. also check AD 87-21-07
Thanks Harry
321 267-3141
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
>
> The Cloud Craft Manual is an excellent document!
> Tom F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
>
>
>>
>> Mason,
>>
>> What is a Cloud Craft Manual?
>>
>> MM
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com>
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLAPS
>>
>>
>
>> >
>> > MM, ACCORDING TO MY CLOUD CRAFT MANUAL, MAX SPEED FOR 1/2 FLAPS IS 150
>> MPH/130 KTS. AND FULL FLAPS 146 MPH/129 KTS. MASON
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Moe<mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com>
>> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:52 AM
>> > Subject: Commander-List: FLAPS
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Folks:
>> >
>> > As I understand it, the beginning of the white arc on the air speed
>> indicator is the point where maximum flaps can be deployed. Does anyone
>> have reliable information (or a chart) as to what speed partial flaps can
> be
>> let down on a 680F(p)?
>> >
>> > It seems that ATC keeps holding me higher and higher until later, and
>> getting down with geared engines can be most challenging.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Moe Mills
>> > N680RR
>> > 680F(p)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
I have had IO-470's in other aircraft and always found the engines sound but you
don't overheat or overwork them and the cylinders will stay the course.
Of course i always give a little more fuel on cruise as they really need
their body fluids for cooling...and that starts the "Lean of Peak" argument.
P-Punk has a STC for installing the 520 cylinders on the block and is quite
successful....but it only applies to the 0-470...I wonder why it won't work
on injected?
Craig
css nico wrote:
Jim,
I owned a stock straight 500 and it appeared to outperform the A model. I
once took a 500A up for a short flight and felt it should've done better
compared to the 500 in terms of climb and cruise performance. The other
thing was, of course, the reliability and TBO of the Lycomings. With the
necessary soft-hand handling and care, we could take them well beyond the
2,000 hr TBO without top overhauls. I doubt whether Continentals would let
you fly past 1,000 hours or so before requiring some sun light on the
pistons.
My recollection of the A's performance is admittedly wholly suspect, so your
perception would be appreciated.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
>
> Craig,
> Congratulations, you will love your airplane. I will have had mine 25
years
> this coming April first. I have tried to trade it several times but have
> always after looking at it decided for my needs my 500A (Cont-IO-470's)
was
> all I needed. If I can be of any help let me know.
> Jim Addington
> jtaddington(at)charter.net
> 940-566-2651
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
>
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
> From: Craig Lundborg
> Subject: 500A Cover and rudder brace
> To: YourTCFG(at)aol.com
>
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang,
> Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I am
> now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking a
> little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
> Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so
> its pilot will look as good as the Commander.
>
> Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang, Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I
> am now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and
looking
> a little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
> Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so its pilot
> will look as good as the Commander. Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
Jim,
After ticking off the traffic at the airport by taxing for a couple of hours
...The first take-off re-enforced all my desires to own a Commander.
She may not be all powerfull but after I get a couple of bugs out of her because
of non use, I am very pleased with the bird.
Craig
Jim Addington wrote:
Craig,
Congratulations, you will love your airplane. I will have had mine 25 years
this coming April first. I have tried to trade it several times but have
always after looking at it decided for my needs my 500A (Cont-IO-470's) was
all I needed. If I can be of any help let me know.
Jim Addington
jtaddington(at)charter.net
940-566-2651
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Lundborg
Subject: 500A Cover and rudder brace
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
Hi gang,
Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I am
now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking a
little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so
its pilot will look as good as the Commander.
Craig Lundborg
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
Hi gang, Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I
am now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking
a little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so its pilot
will look as good as the Commander. Craig Lundborg
--0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
In a message dated 1/7/2006 9:29:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
Congratulations, you will love your airplane. I will have had mine 25 years
this coming April first. I have tried to trade it several times but have
always after looking at it decided for my needs my 500A (Cont-IO-470's) was
all I needed. If I can be of any help let me know.
Jim Addington
Good Morning Jim,
Just out of curiosity, has anyone replaced the O-470s with IO-550 engines?
I have heard some rumors that Colemill has offered a conversion that uses
the sand cast case of the 470 and has Continental build up a 550 version
thereof. That would be nice, but I think the full factory Permold case 550 would
be fabulous on your airplane. The engine should fit right in the same spot,
weigh less and develop a lot more power.
We have made that change in our J35 Bonanza and it is the best money I ever
spent on an airplane.
From my memory of flying the early 520 Commanders, I believe the combination
of the early light weight airframe and the IO-550 would be a beautiful
machine.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "css nico" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
For a while I had both an Aero Commander and a Piper Twin Comanche, another
bird I loved to fly. The logic was that when I travel alone or with only one
pax, I would jump into the Comanche. If the trip is to be an extended one
with two or more pax, I would use the Commander. It only held true for a
little while. For some reason the Commander got the additional avionics and
hence, the additional rides. So, the Comanche, eventually, left the stable.
:-)
It's just the way it is.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Lundborg" <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
>
> Jim,
> After ticking off the traffic at the airport by taxing for a couple
of hours ...The first take-off re-enforced all my desires to own a
Commander.
> She may not be all powerfull but after I get a couple of bugs out of
her because of non use, I am very pleased with the bird.
>
> Craig
>
> Jim Addington wrote:
>
> Craig,
> Congratulations, you will love your airplane. I will have had mine 25
years
> this coming April first. I have tried to trade it several times but have
> always after looking at it decided for my needs my 500A (Cont-IO-470's)
was
> all I needed. If I can be of any help let me know.
> Jim Addington
> jtaddington(at)charter.net
> 940-566-2651
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
>
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
> From: Craig Lundborg
> Subject: 500A Cover and rudder brace
> To: YourTCFG(at)aol.com
>
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang,
> Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I am
> now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and looking a
> little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
> Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so
> its pilot will look as good as the Commander.
>
> Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579
>
> Hi gang, Can anyone direct me to a rudder stop and a canvas cover ....I
> am now the guy that is spotted at airports steering erradically and
looking
> a little goofy trying to taxi in a straight line...how do you guys do it?
> Love my new bird and can't wait for the training time to pass so its pilot
> will look as good as the Commander. Craig Lundborg
>
> --0-1153313962-1136433975=:61579--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nancy & Roland Gilliam <amg(at)nc.rr.com> |
Hello folks,
Enviro systems flow valve part no. 1300490 ser 301 new. Info says it is
a pressurization valve for a twinn commander. At this time it is $67.00
including shipping.
Roland Gilliam TC 500 (North Carolina)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Craig,
Where do you live?
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben(at)gmpexpress.net> |
Craig,
You should be on the Aero Commander Frappr Map so Jim can find you:
http://www.frappr.com/aerocommander
Post some pictures, too.
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: jtaddington(at)charter.net
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:46 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Taxiing
Craig,
Where do you live?
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace |
Hello Old Bob,
I am not as up to date as some of the other people on the group but I don't
know of the conversion however Colemill would sure be a good place to start
looking.
Jim
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fwd: 500A Cover and rudder brace
In a message dated 1/7/2006 9:29:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
Congratulations, you will love your airplane. I will have had mine 25 years
this coming April first. I have tried to trade it several times but have
always after looking at it decided for my needs my 500A (Cont-IO-470's) was
all I needed. If I can be of any help let me know.
Jim Addington
Good Morning Jim,
Just out of curiosity, has anyone replaced the O-470s with IO-550 engines?
I have heard some rumors that Colemill has offered a conversion that uses
the sand cast case of the 470 and has Continental build up a 550 version
thereof. That would be nice, but I think the full factory Permold case 550
would
be fabulous on your airplane. The engine should fit right in the same
spot,
weigh less and develop a lot more power.
We have made that change in our J35 Bonanza and it is the best money I ever
spent on an airplane.
From my memory of flying the early 520 Commanders, I believe the
combination
of the early light weight airframe and the IO-550 would be a beautiful
machine.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net> |
We are in the heart of the California Delta...The bird rests at C-83 (Byron)
www.LundborgLanding.com is where we work and live...This "fishing hole" is considered one of the top three in America!
Craig
Jim Addington wrote:
Craig,
Where do you live?
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Wow, hi Craig,
I didn't know you were in the Delta. I'm based at PAO but spend a lot of
time in Discovery Bay, and land at Byron often. I'll have to look you up the
next time I'm out there...or at least take a peek at your airplane!
Cheers,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Lundborg" <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Taxiing
>
> We are in the heart of the California Delta...The bird rests at C-83
(Byron)
>
> www.LundborgLanding.com is where we work and live...This "fishing hole"
is considered one of the top three in America!
>
> Craig
>
> Jim Addington wrote:
>
>
> Craig,
> Where do you live?
>
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I was afraid of that, if you weren't so far away I would have been glad to
have given you some free instruction.
Jim Addington
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Lundborg
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Taxiing
We are in the heart of the California Delta...The bird rests at C-83 (Byron)
www.LundborgLanding.com is where we work and live...This "fishing hole"
is considered one of the top three in America!
Craig
Jim Addington wrote:
Craig,
Where do you live?
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Good Evening John,
As long as we are locating folks, is your Commander the one parked right at
the end of the row which we taxi past after every landing?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/8/2006 6:22:00 P.M. Central Standard Time,
john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
I didn't know you were in the Delta. I'm based at PAO but spend a lot of
time in Discovery Bay, and land at Byron often. I'll have to look you up the
next time I'm out there...or at least take a peek at your airplane!
Cheers,
/John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Well, Bob,
I'm a long way from Brookeridge ;-) but if you've been to PAO there's Paul
Seipp (who, although a friend, grumpily ignores us TCFG folks), he owns the
white/burgundy 500U at the very end of Charlie row (which you would taxi
past), and I own the white/blue/gray 500B in the 2nd-from-the-end spot on
Foxtrot row, which you would only taxi past if you were taxiing back for
takeoff or going through the runup area.
Of course, you wouldn't have seen my airplane since early October as it's
had a Grand Annual inculding the installation of much new equipment. She's
ready to fly & all signed off, but I'm in no hurry to get her out of that
nice warm hangar of Morris' and subject her to the weather we've been
having....
Are you now on the west coast, or do you get here regularly?
Cheers,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Taxiing
>
>
> Good Evening John,
>
> As long as we are locating folks, is your Commander the one parked right
at
> the end of the row which we taxi past after every landing?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
> In a message dated 1/8/2006 6:22:00 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> john(at)vormbaum.com writes:
>
> I didn't know you were in the Delta. I'm based at PAO but spend a lot of
> time in Discovery Bay, and land at Byron often. I'll have to look you up
the
> next time I'm out there...or at least take a peek at your airplane!
>
> Cheers,
>
> /John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Jim,
I have found the answer to the taxi...practice and more practice...I told
my wife I must go out and fly each day for her comfort and safety...so far it
has worked, I was in Morris' back yard in SCK to get my props balanced the 10,000
foot runway makes it look like I am doing short field landings and it gave
me almost two miles each way to taxi...it does get better!
Craig
Jim Addington wrote:
I was afraid of that, if you weren't so far away I would have been glad to
have given you some free instruction.
Jim Addington
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig
Lundborg
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Taxiing
We are in the heart of the California Delta...The bird rests at C-83 (Byron)
www.LundborgLanding.com is where we work and live...This "fishing hole"
is considered one of the top three in America!
Craig
Jim Addington wrote:
Craig,
Where do you live?
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New BBS Interface For Matronics List Forums! |
Dear Listers,
I'm very proud to announce a completely new BBS interface is now available for
all of the Email Lists at Matronics! This is a full-featured system that allows
for viewing, posting, attachments, polls - the works.
But the best part is that it is *completely* integrated with all of the existing
email tools currently available at Matronics! What this means at the most basic
level is that, if you post a message to List from Email in the traditional
way, it will show up on the BBS system *and* get distributed to everyone currently
subscribed to the Email List. By the same token, if you are on the BBS
and post a message to a given List-Forum, the message will not only show up on
the BBS, but also be distributed to everyone on the Email List!!
It is really a very nice implementation and I am very pleased with its operation.
All of the tools you have come to know and love such as the List Search Engine
and List Browse and Download will still be available and contain all of the
latest posts. Think of the new BBS interface as just another method of accessing
the all of the Lists.
You can use the BBS to view all of the latest posts without having to do anything
except use your browser to surf over to the site. You can view and look at
all of the various List's posts. If you want to post a new message or reply
to an existing message from the BBS, you will have to Register on the BBS. This
is a *very* simple process and will only take a couple of minutes. There is
a small icon in the upper righthand side of the main BBS page labeled "Register"
to get you started.
I strongly recommend that you use the exact *same* email address you are subscribed
to the Email Lists with when registering on the BBS. Also, while not an
absolute requirement, I would really appreciate it if people would use their full
name when choosing their Username on the BBS (for example "Matt Dralle").
This just makes it easier for everyone to know who's posting. Also, I have enabled
the ability to upload a small user picture with your profile called an
"avatar". Please use a *real* picture of yourself *with* your cloths on! Thank
you! Maximum size of the bitmap is 120x120.
You can either be subscribed to the BBS, or any number of Email Lists, or both.
Registering on the BBS will allow you to email directly to all of the various
Lists. However, to receive direct List Email, you will need to be *subscribed*
to the various Lists as you have in the past. No changes here in operation.
I have added numerous links on the BBS pointing to the Email List subscription
page.
I've had the BBS connected to the Lists for about a week now, so its already loaded
up with a fair number of messages. You can post photos and other documents
directly to the BBS and links to them will appear in the List Email distributions.
Also, when any messages posted to the BBS are viewed in the List Email
distribution, there will be a URL link at the bottom of the message pointing
back to the BBS.
And here's what you've been waiting for -- the main URL for the new Matronics Email
List BBS is:
http://forums.matronics.com
Please surf on over, Register, and have a great time! I think this will be the
dawn of a whole new era for the Lists at Matronics!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: All New BBS Interface For Matronics List Forums! |
My name is Donnie Rose and am the proud new owner of
69PT.
Greetings everyone!
--- Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> I'm very proud to announce a completely new BBS
> interface is now available for all of the Email
> Lists at Matronics! This is a full-featured system
> that allows for viewing, posting, attachments, polls
> - the works.
>
> But the best part is that it is *completely*
> integrated with all of the existing email tools
> currently available at Matronics! What this means
> at the most basic level is that, if you post a
> message to List from Email in the traditional way,
> it will show up on the BBS system *and* get
> distributed to everyone currently subscribed to the
> Email List. By the same token, if you are on the
> BBS and post a message to a given List-Forum, the
> message will not only show up on the BBS, but also
> be distributed to everyone on the Email List!!
>
> It is really a very nice implementation and I am
> very pleased with its operation. All of the tools
> you have come to know and love such as the List
> Search Engine and List Browse and Download will
> still be available and contain all of the latest
> posts. Think of the new BBS interface as just
> another method of accessing the all of the Lists.
>
> You can use the BBS to view all of the latest posts
> without having to do anything except use your
> browser to surf over to the site. You can view and
> look at all of the various List's posts. If you
> want to post a new message or reply to an existing
> message from the BBS, you will have to Register on
> the BBS. This is a *very* simple process and will
> only take a couple of minutes. There is a small
> icon in the upper righthand side of the main BBS
> page labeled "Register" to get you started.
>
> I strongly recommend that you use the exact *same*
> email address you are subscribed to the Email Lists
> with when registering on the BBS. Also, while not
> an absolute requirement, I would really appreciate
> it if people would use their full name when choosing
> their Username on the BBS (for example "Matt
> Dralle"). This just makes it easier for everyone to
> know who's posting. Also, I have enabled the
> ability to upload a small user picture with your
> profile called an "avatar". Please use a *real*
> picture of yourself *with* your cloths on! Thank
> you! Maximum size of the bitmap is 120x120.
>
> You can either be subscribed to the BBS, or any
> number of Email Lists, or both. Registering on the
> BBS will allow you to email directly to all of the
> various Lists. However, to receive direct List
> Email, you will need to be *subscribed* to the
> various Lists as you have in the past. No changes
> here in operation. I have added numerous links on
> the BBS pointing to the Email List subscription
> page.
>
> I've had the BBS connected to the Lists for about a
> week now, so its already loaded up with a fair
> number of messages. You can post photos and other
> documents directly to the BBS and links to them will
> appear in the List Email distributions. Also, when
> any messages posted to the BBS are viewed in the
> List Email distribution, there will be a URL link at
> the bottom of the message pointing back to the BBS.
>
> And here's what you've been waiting for -- the main
> URL for the new Matronics Email List BBS is:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> Please surf on over, Register, and have a great
> time! I think this will be the dawn of a whole new
> era for the Lists at Matronics!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore |
> CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F |
> dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products
> For Aircraft
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap |
| From: | "Milt" <N395V(at)direcway.com> |
Try Byerly Aviation I just sold 2 of them to Byerly on E bay. They got a great
deal maybe they will pass it on to you. [Idea]
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2553#2553
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Geared engined Commanders |
| From: | "Milt" <N395V(at)direcway.com> |
> Geared, Supercharged & Fuel Injected:
> 680F; 680F(P); 680FL; 680FLP; 685.
Barry not to be a nitpicker but the 520Ks are turbocharged not supercharged and
they are also intercooled. :)
To expand upon Wing Commander Gordon's comment about the 520Ks consuming 3 jugs
a year I think a more accurate measure would be 3 cylinders per engine for every
700-900 hrs flown.
These beasts are putting out 435HP each on only 520CID (.84HP/CI)
Thats a lot to ask from an aircooled engine running overboost especially when 870HP
total is really inadequate for that particular airframe.
With graphic engine analyzers and judicious lean of peak ops you can extend the
life a little and only consume 2 jugs each 900 hrs+-. This costs a bit at the
top end in performance and saves about 3GPH per side.
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2562#2562
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/airborne4_842.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
| From: | "Milt" <N395V(at)direcway.com> |
I would frequently slip the 685 in any flap configuration. ATC always treated me
like a turbine and gave rapid descents from the Flight levels leaving me to
scurry to get down to initial approach altitudes and speeds.
At all flap and gear configurations I had good control and good rudder authority.
Even went high once and pulled back into a flaps down stall while slipping. The
plane recovered itself. Nothing squirrly.
Both airspeed indicators (pitots R & L) always registered the same no matter the
direction of slip. I tried to avoid slips on final approach as I have absolutely
no idea how it would behave if you lost an engine so close to VMC and dirty.
Never had the balls to pull an engine while slow and doing a slip. Did this
once in a 310 and ended up on my back with a helluva sink rate. The thought
of 9000 pounds on it's back and slow was just more than I could stomach.
During rapid descents I would also pull the props back to 1500-1600 RPM and keep
MP up to whatever was needed to keep the engine loading the prop.
Many "geared engine gurus" advised against this but questioning them usually revealed
that their experience in geared engines was obtained flying coffee mugs
in hangars with other coffee mug experts.
I am also not a believer in shock cooling and never experienced it on the engine
monitors when pulling power at altitude. Especially when running LOP. I saw
much more rapid cooling in cruise when plowing through heavy rain than with rapid
or prolonged power reductions.
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket Driver
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2578#2578
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: All New BBS Interface For Matronics List Forums! |
| From: | "Milt" <N395V(at)direcway.com> |
Boy I love this format.
Now I can easily be an expert on all the lists for all the planes I fly/have flown.
One stop shopping.
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket Driver
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2584#2584
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyhawkC-172(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Commander decent |
"Top Secret" at twincommanderflyer.com
This is Classified information and must not be mentioned in any way shape or form
to anyone.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Milt" <N395V(at)direcway.com>
>
> I would frequently slip the 685 in any flap configuration. ATC always treated
me
> like a turbine and gave rapid descents from the Flight levels leaving me to
> scurry to get down to initial approach altitudes and speeds.
>
> At all flap and gear configurations I had good control and good rudder
> authority.
>
> Even went high once and pulled back into a flaps down stall while slipping. The
> plane recovered itself. Nothing squirrly.
>
> Both airspeed indicators (pitots R & L) always registered the same no matter
the
> direction of slip. I tried to avoid slips on final approach as I have
> absolutely no idea how it would behave if you lost an engine so close to VMC
and
> dirty. Never had the balls to pull an engine while slow and doing a slip. Did
> this once in a 310 and ended up on my back with a helluva sink rate. The thought
> of 9000 pounds on it's back and slow was just more than I could stomach.
>
> During rapid descents I would also pull the props back to 1500-1600 RPM and keep
> MP up to whatever was needed to keep the engine loading the prop.
>
> Many "geared engine gurus" advised against this but questioning them usually
> revealed that their experience in geared engines was obtained flying coffee mugs
> in hangars with other coffee mug experts.
>
> I am also not a believer in shock cooling and never experienced it on the engine
> monitors when pulling power at altitude. Especially when running LOP. I saw much
> more rapid cooling in cruise when plowing through heavy rain than with rapid
or
> prolonged power reductions.
>
> --------
> Milt
> N395V
> F1 Rocket Driver
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2578#2578
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Top Secret" at twincommanderflyer.com
This isClassified information and must not be mentioned in any way shape or form
to anyone.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Milt" N395V(at)direcway.com
-- Commander-List message posted by: "Milt"
I would frequently slip the 685 in any flap configuration. ATC always treated
me
like a turbine and gave rapid descents from the Flight levels leaving me to
scurry to get down to initial approach altitudes and speeds.
At all flap and gear configurations I had good control and good rudder
authority.
Even went high once and pulled back into a flaps down stall while slipping. The
plane recovered itself. Nothing squirrly.
Both airspeed indicators (pitots R L) always registered the same no matter the
direction of slip. I tried to avoid slips on final approach as I have
absolutely no idea how it w
ould behave if you lost an engine so close to VMC and
dirty. Never had the balls to pull an engine while slow and doing a slip. Did
this once in a 310 and ended up on my back with a helluva sink rate. The thought
of 9000 pounds on it's back and slow was just more than I could stomach.
During rapid descents I would also pull the props back to 1500-1600 RPM and keep
MP up to whatever was needed to keep the engine loading the prop.
Many "geared engine gurus" advised against this but questioning them usually
revealed that their experience in geared engines was obtained flying coffee mugs
in hangars with other coffee mug experts.
I am also not a believer in shock cooling and never experienced it on the engine
monitors when pulling power at altitude. Especially when running LOP. I saw much
more rapid cooling in cruise when plowing through heavy rain than wi
th rapid or
prolonged power reductions.
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket Driver
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2578#2578
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N395V" <N395V(at)direcway.com> |
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket Driver
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2641#2641
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap |
In a message dated 1/10/2006 10:54:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
N395V(at)direcway.com writes:
Milt
Milt, great to hear from you!! How is life?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap |
| From: | "N395V" <N395V(at)direcway.com> |
Life is good. Like you I am approaching retirement and trying to figure out what
to do and how to survive financially and still fly.
I now fly a homebuilt and live on the rocket and RV forums. This new format really
provides easy access to all the forums so I thought I would drop in and provide
some comic relief/greif for awhile.
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket Driver
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2838#2838
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dcp_1184_127.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap |
In a message dated 1/11/2006 7:36:27 AM Central Standard Time,
N395V(at)direcway.com writes:
so I thought I would drop in and provide some comic relief/greif for awhile
Great to hear. I look forward to you sharing your pearls of wisdom with the
group!! Fly safe. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GSO-480 Overhaul |
| From: | "captseth" <capt_seth(at)yahoo.com> |
Anyone know what factory rebuilts are running these days? Any problems getting
parts? Thanks...
S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2966#2966
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
captseth wrote:
> Anyone know what factory (GSO-480) rebuilts are running these days?
Sure hope you're joking or you're going to be in for a terrible
disapointment....
Hit the junk yards and try to find parts that are less worn out than
what you've got.....
cs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
| From: | "captseth" <capt_seth(at)yahoo.com> |
So you're saying that if you pop a jug or trash a gearbox lycoming doesn't stock
parts? Not entirely unexpected, but I am trying to determine the viability of
this powerplant. Of course, if you have to overhaul the thing and you can't
get a piston pin that you need, all is for naught.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2998#2998
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
captseth wrote:
>
> So you're saying that if you pop a jug or trash a gearbox lycoming doesn't stock
parts?
Unfortunatly, that's the case. Lycoming no longer supports many of the
oldest engines including the radials and GO series. There are a few
shops left that will overhaul them, but there are fewer every day. We
used to have several very good shops in the tulsa area that specialized
in geared lycs, but they've all dropped those over the last 10 years or
so due to lack of parts. Once in a while you can find some NOS parts,
but mostly you're just looking at "is it better than what I've got"
these days. Central Cylinder still does quite a bit of work on those
engines and probably has more parts than anyone. You might give George
Czarneki a call and see what they can do. Bottom line is that you're
not going to get a "new limits" quality overhaul or many new parts.
bummer - I think that if Lyc had kept progressing on the GSO-480 that it
could have been the engine of choice for many modern designs too....
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
$22,000.00 in ft lauderdale.includes mags harnesses
Air Mark
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: GSO-480 Overhaul
>
>
>
> captseth wrote:
>> Anyone know what factory (GSO-480) rebuilts are running these days?
>
> Sure hope you're joking or you're going to be in for a terrible
> disapointment....
> Hit the junk yards and try to find parts that are less worn out than
> what you've got.....
>
> cs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | GSO-480 Overhaul |
Se habla Espaniol???
Guermo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
avtec2(at)bellsouth.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: GSO-480 Overhaul
$22,000.00 in ft lauderdale.includes mags harnesses
Air Mark
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: GSO-480 Overhaul
>
>
>
> captseth wrote:
>> Anyone know what factory (GSO-480) rebuilts are running these days?
>
> Sure hope you're joking or you're going to be in for a terrible
> disapointment....
> Hit the junk yards and try to find parts that are less worn out than
> what you've got.....
>
> cs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Capt Milt!
Great to catch you on the email string again!
When are you visiting the Topend of Oz?
Best regards from Oz
Russell
On 11/1/06 11:05 PM, "N395V" wrote:
>
> Life is good. Like you I am approaching retirement and trying to figure out
> what to do and how to survive financially and still fly.
>
> I now fly a homebuilt and live on the rocket and RV forums. This new format
> really provides easy access to all the forums so I thought I would drop in and
> provide some comic relief/greif for awhile.
>
> --------
> Milt
> N395V
> F1 Rocket Driver
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2838#2838
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dcp_1184_127.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyhawkC-172(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP Fuel Cap |
anyone have knowledge of:
where is this Twin Commander?
"1/2 of a tough bird"
@
twincommanderflyer.com
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
>
> Capt Milt!
>
> Great to catch you on the email string again!
>
> When are you visiting the Topend of Oz?
>
> Best regards from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
>
> On 11/1/06 11:05 PM, "N395V" wrote:
>
> >
> > Life is good. Like you I am approaching retirement and trying to figure out
> > what to do and how to survive financially and still fly.
> >
> > I now fly a homebuilt and live on the rocket and RV forums. This new format
> > really provides easy access to all the forums so I thought I would drop in
and
> > provide some comic relief/greif for awhile.
> >
> > --------
> > Milt
> > N395V
> > F1 Rocket Driver
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2838#2838
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dcp_1184_127.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
anyone have knowledge of:
http://www.twincommanderflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif" border=0> where is this Twin Commander?
"1/2 of a tough bird"
@
twincommanderflyer.com
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Russell Legg rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
-- Commander-List message posted by: Russell Legg
Capt Milt!
Great to catch you on the email string again!
When are you visiting the Topend of Oz?
Best regards from Oz
Russell
On 11/1/06 11:05 PM, "N395V" wrote:
-- Commander-List message posted by: "N395V"
Life is good. Like you I am approaching retirement and trying to figure out
what to do and how to survive financially and still fly.
I now fly a homebuilt and live on the rocket and RV forums. This new format
really provides e
asy access to all the forums so I thought I would drop in and
provide some comic relief/greif for awhile.
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket Driver
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2838#2838
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dcp_1184_127.jpg
or to browse
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
| From: | "captseth" <capt_seth(at)yahoo.com> |
bowing74(at)earthlink.net wrote:
> Se habla Espaniol???
>
> Guermo
Un Pocito.
Anyway, thanks guys, that was helpful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3089#3089
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
You may need more that pocito.
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of captseth
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: GSO-480 Overhaul
bowing74(at)earthlink.net wrote:
> Se habla Espaniol???
>
> Guermo
Un Pocito.
Anyway, thanks guys, that was helpful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3089#3089
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
hey gang,,I saw a pair of gso 480'S,i think I can find the add,will be right
back with ya!! Big AL
>From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: GSO-480 Overhaul
>Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:18:56 -0600
>
>
>captseth wrote:
> >
> > So you're saying that if you pop a jug or trash a gearbox lycoming
>doesn't stock parts?
>
>
>Unfortunatly, that's the case. Lycoming no longer supports many of the
>oldest engines including the radials and GO series. There are a few
>shops left that will overhaul them, but there are fewer every day. We
>used to have several very good shops in the tulsa area that specialized
>in geared lycs, but they've all dropped those over the last 10 years or
>so due to lack of parts. Once in a while you can find some NOS parts,
>but mostly you're just looking at "is it better than what I've got"
>these days. Central Cylinder still does quite a bit of work on those
>engines and probably has more parts than anyone. You might give George
>Czarneki a call and see what they can do. Bottom line is that you're
>not going to get a "new limits" quality overhaul or many new parts.
>
>bummer - I think that if Lyc had kept progressing on the GSO-480 that it
>could have been the engine of choice for many modern designs too....
>
>Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
In a message dated 1/11/2006 2:19:27 PM Central Standard Time,
cschuerm(at)cox.net writes:
There are a few
shops left that will overhaul them, but there are fewer every day
Actually, there are several good shops that still do Geared engiens (see FGN
last year). Parts are not yet a problem (except for the oldiest GO 435). I
have also found that OH prices are reasonable. Several shops still do OH of
geared engiens even though they dont advertize. Moe Mills ah
had his engiens done by a shop in CA a couple years ago. I had not heard of
them, but they did a great job. I have an engine shop here in the portland
aera (Priemer engiens) who will wlso do them. The owner cut his teath on
geared engiens and still has a catche of NOS parts.
There is, at this time, no problem getting a GO or GSO engine overhauled
at a reasnoble cost. Also, the 480 searies engiens will almost always make
or exceed the TBO if properly flown. In the next FGN, (being printed now) I
hav an areticle on the proper operation of the lyc geared engine. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
Commander drivers,
Starman Bros. is having an auction in Hastings, FL soon. Earl Aircraft
Salvage is throwing in the towel, and I think that they had a lot of 480
stuff and Commander parts. Starman Bros. has a web sight
www.starmanauctions.com. If anyone goes, please let me know, as there is
one small item that I would like to get.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Reed" <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: GSO-480 Overhaul
>
> hey gang,,I saw a pair of gso 480'S,i think I can find the add,will be
right
> back with ya!! Big AL
>
>
> >From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: GSO-480 Overhaul
> >Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:18:56 -0600
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >captseth wrote:
> > >
> > > So you're saying that if you pop a jug or trash a gearbox lycoming
> >doesn't stock parts?
> >
> >
> >Unfortunatly, that's the case. Lycoming no longer supports many of the
> >oldest engines including the radials and GO series. There are a few
> >shops left that will overhaul them, but there are fewer every day. We
> >used to have several very good shops in the tulsa area that specialized
> >in geared lycs, but they've all dropped those over the last 10 years or
> >so due to lack of parts. Once in a while you can find some NOS parts,
> >but mostly you're just looking at "is it better than what I've got"
> >these days. Central Cylinder still does quite a bit of work on those
> >engines and probably has more parts than anyone. You might give George
> >Czarneki a call and see what they can do. Bottom line is that you're
> >not going to get a "new limits" quality overhaul or many new parts.
> >
> >bummer - I think that if Lyc had kept progressing on the GSO-480 that it
> >could have been the engine of choice for many modern designs too....
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
| From: | "Ben-PA" <ben(at)gmpexpress.net> |
I asked the guys in the shop this morning if they do GO-480 overhauls and they
laughed. Apparently I was standing on what used to be the assembly line where
they did 8 each week during the war.
The shop is Columbia Aircraft Services in Bloomsburg, Pa. 17815. 570-784-3070.
Airport N13.
They said Scott Smith (the boss) still buys the scarcer parts wherever he can find
them.
Tell him Ben the Kitfox guy told you to call.
HTH
Good luck!
Ben
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3292#3292
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I got this off AVFLASH, does any one know any thing about this.
PilotShareTheRide.com.
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
| From: | "captseth" <capt_seth(at)yahoo.com> |
Wow, great - all good stuff. I'll keep the info handy.
I want to use the airplane in LIMITED commercial service and want to be able to
support it. My employer has a similar problem with a discontinued aircraft/engine,
and they resorted to cannabilization - which is not going to last more than
another couple of months on that airplane. So, I don't want to make the same
mistake they did: not having a plan "b."
It sounds like there are enough parts out there to keep them going, especially
if one's original equipment remains servicable through the overhaul.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3317#3317
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GSO-480 Overhaul |
Hi. I am part of the staff for Gary Tillman, who was killed in the Cessna
195 crash the week of Christmas. We want to keep his email address active for
business reasons because a lot of clients have the address...however Gary seems
to get a lot of emails from the commander chat list. How do we get his email
address removed from the list?
Thanks,
Melissa
Av. Ins. Brokers of NA
http://www.flysafeinsurance.com/
800-228-4283
706-291-4077 office
706-238-1143 cell
706-232-3081 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Tillman |
Melissa,
Gary was a friend and a lot of us knew him.
Gary is missed in the Twin Commander world.
I hope his body and his daughter were recovered?
As a group, our condolences to to his family.
When it happened, many of our members put posts to this site and we
prayed for him.
To remove his email, you will need to contact the webmaster at
www.matronics.com
Many regards to the Tillman family.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:37 AM, TILLMAN333(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi. I am part of the staff for Gary Tillman, who was killed in the
> Cessna
> 195 crash the week of Christmas. We want to keep his email address
> active for
> business reasons because a lot of clients have the
> address...however Gary seems
> to get a lot of emails from the commander chat list. How do we get
> his email
> address removed from the list?
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa
>
> Av. Ins. Brokers of NA
> http://www.flysafeinsurance.com/
> 800-228-4283
> 706-291-4077 office
> 706-238-1143 cell
> 706-232-3081 fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Tillman |
G'day Tylor,
Many thanks on saying so eloquently what we all feel at this
very sad time around the whole Gary thing.
As you said; he had so many great friends in the Twin
Commander community!
I still remember the look on 'lil Crunk's face when Gary
auctioned off those items to him at the Hillsboro flyin!
Mewlissa, please pass on our very heartfelt regards to Gary's
family.
Cheers
Russell
---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:15:10 -0700
>From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Gary Tillman
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>Melissa,
>Gary was a friend and a lot of us knew him.
>Gary is missed in the Twin Commander world.
>I hope his body and his daughter were recovered?
>
>As a group, our condolences to to his family.
>
>When it happened, many of our members put posts to this
site and we
>prayed for him.
>
>To remove his email, you will need to contact the webmaster
at
>www.matronics.com
>
>Many regards to the Tillman family.
>
>Tylor Hall
>
>
>On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:37 AM, TILLMAN333(at)aol.com wrote:
>
TILLMAN333(at)aol.com
>>
>> Hi. I am part of the staff for Gary Tillman, who was killed in
the
>> Cessna
>> 195 crash the week of Christmas. We want to keep his
email address
>> active for
>> business reasons because a lot of clients have the
>> address...however Gary seems
>> to get a lot of emails from the commander chat list. How do
we get
>> his email
>> address removed from the list?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Melissa
>>
>> Av. Ins. Brokers of NA
>> http://www.flysafeinsurance.com/
>> 800-228-4283
>> 706-291-4077 office
>> 706-238-1143 cell
>> 706-232-3081 fax
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_-
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| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Documentation + |
tf, have you rcd the stuff I sent you? mason
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher<mailto:tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Documentation +
Sorry about the blank send a second ago, cell: 604-649-9320
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)msn.com<mailto:kamala(at)msn.com>>
To: >
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Documentation +
>
> tf, please forward your phone number i will call you on these. mason
>
>
> >From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca<mailto:tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>>
> >Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: >
> >Subject: Commander-List: Documentation +
> >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:28:56 -0800
> >
> >>
> >
> >Gents,
> >
> >I am looking for documentation in the for of drawings or lists of parts
on
> >the Mr. RPM conversion, one question that came up is that the data plate
on
> >the aircraft still has the wrong engines on it and we need to see the STC
> >to
> >determine if the data plate is required to be changed or not.
> >Another item is that I have on each engine a plastic air line going from
> >the
> >fuel pump to the fuel pressure gauge that appears to be an automotive
part.
> >This too may be mentioned in the STC documentation.
> >
> >I last heard that Dick sold the MR.RPM rights to a couple of people who
> >have
> >not been able to supply me with information this summer as they were
saying
> >"everything is in boxes", and "not set up", any update on them?
> >
> >My local engineers are about to tackle the job of setting up the engines
to
> >spec. As I really dislike paying for their learning curve I would like
to
> >supply them with some form of documentation for this engine setup.
> >Short of that I'll pay someone like Morris Kernik to come to Vancouver to
> >teach my locals how to service this machine.
> >
> >I'll take all the responses I can get, I would like to get my plane back
> >before the Christmas holidays.
December 14, 2005 - January 13, 2006
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-bv