Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ci
March 06, 2007 - April 19, 2007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1969 Shrike 500S, What to do???? |
Whats the link to your e-bay ad???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/05/07 |
Thanks for the info Mike, safe flying!=0A=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444
=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: mike floyd <floydgm@hot
mail.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, March 6, 2007
11:01:35 AM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 9 Ms
loydgm(at)hotmail.com>=0A=0ATwin Commander Supplies a Mod Kit=0A=0AService Let
ter:212A REPLACEMENT OF NOSE GEAR POSITION............... =0A18-Apr-86 ...
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for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.=0Ahttp://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?l
ink=list&sid=396546091
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1969 Shrike 500S, What to do???? |
Rich,
What are you asking for it? Can it be ferried? Any photos?
Tylor Hall
On Mar 6, 2007, at 12:50 PM, David Owens wrote:
>
>
> Whats the link to your e-bay ad???
>
>
> David Owens
> Aerial Viewpoint
> N14AV
> AC-500A-Colemill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
Does anyone know anything about N680QS? It apparently has been parked at
Pierce County Airport - Thun Field, Puyallup, Washington for sometime. Just
wondering if anyone knows what the status of it is.
Thanks,
Bert
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JBOBSTER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N680QS AT KPLU |
If it is the a/c I think it is....it is parked outside at the east end of
the north row of hangars.......interior is out of the aircraft....no visible
work in progress.....think it is a 680(?) with a radar nose......been in the
rain a long, long time
Jim Carroll
Seattle
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N680QS AT KPLU |
That must be it. Here is a photo.
_http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=408309344&size=o_
(http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=408309344&size=o)
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email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N680QS AT KPLU |
Any one have any idea what it cost to have a pilot door installed on 680? Gil
**************************************
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email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray_611(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N680QS AT KPLU |
Gil Try this site for the Door and pricing.
http://www.aircenterinc.com/products_door.php
----- Original Message -----
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: N680QS AT KPLU
Any one have any idea what it cost to have a pilot door installed on
680? Gil
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernie Ganas" <ernie-g(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | 680 series cabin dimensions |
Can anyone point me to a source for the cabin dimensions for the 680
series. I thing they are all the same for height and width but the FL and
685-690's are longer.
Ernie
BE36(E-160)
KDVO Novato, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N680QS AT KPLU |
Hi Bert,
Yep! That's the one. It's a 680E, s/n 699-18. I saw it at Puyallup in
the same position on June 9th 2002. It has a McMillan 7601X nose radome
and a forward cabin door.
I think there's a hold-up with ownership paperwork, centered around a
'missing' Bill of Sale, but the last I knew it has been owned by Howard
Daniel Mulkey, of Spanaway, Washington since August 1989.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: N680QS AT KPLU
That must be it. Here is a photo.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=408309344&size=o
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1969 Shrike 500S, What to do???? |
| From: | "tothetop" <zzztothetop(at)MSN.COM> |
The auction will end at 8:41 am {PST} the 7th, today. I would sell it direct to
someone if a commitment was made before this time. I would sell for the amount
55K. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99208#99208
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 680 series cabin dimensions |
Hello Ernie,
I have recorded the following internal dimensions for the cabin:
Models 680, 680E, 680F, 680F(P):
Length (total): 127.50 inches. (Some sources quote 129.50 inches)
Height: 52.00 inches. (Some sources, such as the Maintenance
Manual, quote 53 inches)
Width: 52.00 inches.
Volume: 160 cu.ft. (Some sources, such as the Maintenance
Manual, quote 177 cu.ft.)
Models 680FL, 680FLP, 685:
Length (total): 171.00 inches. (Some sources quote 171.75 inches and 173
inches for the 685)
Height: 55.00 inches. (Some sources, such as the Maintenance
Manual, quote 55.50 inches)
Width: 52.00 inches. (Some sources quote 48.25 inches)
Volume: 226 cu.ft. (Some sources, such as the Maintenance
Manual, quote 250 cu.ft.)
Should be a bit bigger than a Beech 36 ;-)
Hope this helps.
Very Best Regards,
Barry Collman
Aero Commander Historian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie Ganas" <ernie-g(at)pacbell.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 6:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 680 series cabin dimensions
|
| Can anyone point me to a source for the cabin dimensions for the 680
| series. I think they are all the same for height and width but the FL
and
| 685-690's are longer.
|
| Ernie
| BE36(E-160)
| KDVO Novato, CA
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Brady" <westwind(at)hdiss.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 680 series cabin dimensions |
Sir Barry & Ernie, If I'm not mistaken the difference between
Maintenance Manual & the other cabin dimensions was that the Maintenance
Manual listed the airworthy "bare bones" cabin i.e. no seats, no
carpet,no headliner, no upholstery period. The owners manual figs. were
for no seats & factory upholstery. Years ago, when we were bidding for
freight, checks, or U.S. Mail contracts, the bottom line was cubic ft.
capacity & empty wt./useful load. If you've never flown in an empty A/C,
Twin Beech, or military surplus C47/DC3 in cargo configuration you just
don't know the true meaning of noise. lol Dan A/C 500 N6277B
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680 series cabin dimensions
Hello Ernie,
I have recorded the following internal dimensions for the cabin:
Models 680, 680E, 680F, 680F(P):
Length (total): 127.50 inches. (Some sources quote 129.50 inches)
Height: 52.00 inches. (Some sources, such as the Maintenance
Manual, quote 53 inches)
Width: 52.00 inches.
Volume: 160 cu.ft. (Some sources, such as the Maintenance
Manual, quote 177 cu.ft.)
Models 680FL, 680FLP, 685:
Length (total): 171.00 inches. (Some sources quote 171.75 inches and
173 inches for the 685)
Height: 55.00 inches. (Some sources, such as the Maintenance
Manual, quote 55.50 inches)
Width: 52.00 inches. (Some sources quote 48.25 inches)
Volume: 226 cu.ft. (Some sources, such as the Maintenance
Manual, quote 250 cu.ft.)
Should be a bit bigger than a Beech 36 ;-)
Hope this helps.
Very Best Regards,
Barry Collman
Aero Commander Historian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie Ganas" <ernie-g(at)pacbell.net>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 6:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 680 series cabin dimensions
|
| Can anyone point me to a source for the cabin dimensions for the 680
| series. I think they are all the same for height and width but the
FL and
| 685-690's are longer.
|
| Ernie
| BE36(E-160)
| KDVO Novato, CA
|
|
| ==========
| Commander-List browse
| Archive and much
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
| ==========
| bsp; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
| ==========
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 680 series cabin dimensions |
Hi Dan,
Good point and I should perhaps, with the benefit of hindsight, have
mentioned that.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Brady
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680 series cabin dimensions
Sir Barry & Ernie, If I'm not mistaken the difference between
Maintenance Manual & the other cabin dimensions was that the Maintenance
Manual listed the airworthy "bare bones" cabin i.e. no seats, no
carpet,no headliner, no upholstery period. The owners manual figs. were
for no seats & factory upholstery. Years ago, when we were bidding for
freight, checks, or U.S. Mail contracts, the bottom line was cubic ft.
capacity & empty wt./useful load. If you've never flown in an empty A/C,
Twin Beech, or military surplus C47/DC3 in cargo configuration you just
don't know the true meaning of noise. lol Dan A/C 500 N6277B
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680 series cabin dimensions
Hello Ernie,
I have recorded the following internal dimensions for the cabin:
Models 680, 680E, 680F, 680F(P):
Length (total): 127.50 inches. (Some sources quote 129.50 inches)
Height: 52.00 inches. (Some sources, such as the
Maintenance Manual, quote 53 inches)
Width: 52.00 inches.
Volume: 160 cu.ft. (Some sources, such as the
Maintenance Manual, quote 177 cu.ft.)
Models 680FL, 680FLP, 685:
Length (total): 171.00 inches. (Some sources quote 171.75 inches and
173 inches for the 685)
Height: 55.00 inches. (Some sources, such as the
Maintenance Manual, quote 55.50 inches)
Width: 52.00 inches. (Some sources quote 48.25 inches)
Volume: 226 cu.ft. (Some sources, such as the
Maintenance Manual, quote 250 cu.ft.)
Should be a bit bigger than a Beech 36 ;-)
Hope this helps.
Very Best Regards,
Barry Collman
Aero Commander Historian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie Ganas" <ernie-g(at)pacbell.net>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 6:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 680 series cabin dimensions
|
| Can anyone point me to a source for the cabin dimensions for the
680
| series. I think they are all the same for height and width but the
FL and
| 685-690's are longer.
|
| Ernie
| BE36(E-160)
| KDVO Novato, CA
|
|
| ==========
| Commander-List browse
| Archive and much
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
| ==========
| bsp; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
| ==========
|
|
|
|
|
|
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1969 Shrike 500S, What to do???? |
Did you sell it???
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tothetop
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: 1969 Shrike 500S, What to do????
The auction will end at 8:41 am {PST} the 7th, today. I would sell it
direct to someone if a commitment was made before this time. I would
sell for the amount 55K. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99208#99208
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1969 Shrike 500S, What to do???? |
| From: | "tothetop" <zzztothetop(at)MSN.COM> |
yes I did sell it. It went to a guy just down the road in Arizona.
RZ
N4661C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99434#99434
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello everyone!=0A I am in need of the "Altitude hold" rocker switch for a
Century III autopilot head.=0AThis is the fourth one to the right.=0AAny he
lp is sure appreciated!=0AN69PT=0A=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________________________________________________
____________=0ANever miss an email again!=0AYahoo! Toolbar alerts you the i
nstant new Mail arrives.=0Ahttp://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/m
ail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
Donnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AF
rom: Donnie Rose =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 11:41:59 AM=0ASubject: 500B=0A=0A=0AHello
everyone!=0A I am in need of the "Altitude hold" rocker switch for a Centur
y III autopilot head.=0AThis is the fourth one to the right.=0AAny help is
sure appreciated!=0AN69PT=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A
Don't pick lemons.=0ASee all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________________________________________________
____________=0AGet your own web address. =0AHave a HUGE year through Yahoo
! Small Business.=0Ahttp://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net |
This brazilian kid is definately wanting a Commander ride!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ5wswrEUp4
please encourage him by rating his videos...he may well be the next Commander Owner,
22 years old and already a Commander fanatic...: )
Brent - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 11:41:59 AM
Subject: 500B
Hello everyone!
I am in need of the "Altitude hold" rocker switch for a Century III autopilot
head.
This is the fourth one to the right.
Any help is sure appreciated!
N69PT
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Get your own web address.
This brazilian kid is definately wanting a Commander ride!
please encourage him by rating his videos...he may well be the next Commander
Owner, 22 years old and already a Commander fanatic...: )
Brent - N224HA
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
-----
Forwarded Message ----<BR>From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com><BR>To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 11:41:59
AM
Subject: 500B
Hello everyone!
I am in need of the "Altitude hold" rocker switch
for a Century III autopilot head.
This is the fourth one to the right.
Any help is sure appreciated!
N69PT
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
Don't pick lemons.
See all the
new 2007 cars at
Yahoo! Autos.
=====
=========================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I tried to join so I could send a response but for some reason it kept
sending me in circles, will try again when I have more time. That was a
heck of a video, even the indicators worked and wound down when landing.
Thanks
Jim Addington
N444BD
----- Original Message -----
From: skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 4:17 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: 500B
This brazilian kid is definately wanting a Commander ride!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ5wswrEUp4
please encourage him by rating his videos...he may well be the next
Commander Owner, 22 years old and already a Commander fanatic...: )
Brent - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 11:41:59 AM
Subject: 500B
Hello everyone!
I am in need of the "Altitude hold" rocker switch for a Century III
autopilot head.
This is the fourth one to the right.
Any help is sure appreciated!
N69PT
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
======
================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
DR, CALL CENTURY FLIGHT SYSTEMS IN MINERAL WELLS TEXAS. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: Donnie Rose<mailto:aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:30 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: 500B
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Donnie Rose
>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 11:41:59 AM
Subject: 500B
Hello everyone!
I am in need of the "Altitude hold" rocker switch for a Century III
autopilot head.
This is the fourth one to the right.
Any help is sure appreciated!
N69PT
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007
cars<http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE0OGRsc3F2BF9TAzk3
MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3Y2Fycw--> at Yahoo!
Autos.<http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE0OGRsc3F2BF9TAz
k3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3Y2Fycw-->
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get your own web
address.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.c
om/domains/?p=BESTDEAL>
Have a HUGE year through
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yaho>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Command
er-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List>
--> http://forums.matronics.com>
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks maestro Mason!=0A=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A-
---- Original Message ----=0AFrom: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)msn.com>=0ATo:
commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 4:03:47 PM
=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: 500B=0A=0A=0ADR, CALL CENTURY FLIGHT SY
STEMS IN MINERAL WELLS TEXAS. MASON=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom:
Donnie Rose =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, March 09,
2007 1:30 AM=0ASubject: Commander-List: Fw: 500B=0A=0A=0A=0A =0ADonnie Ros
e =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Donni
e Rose =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: T
hursday, March 8, 2007 11:41:59 AM=0ASubject: 500B=0A=0A=0AHello everyone!
=0A I am in need of the "Altitude hold" rocker switch for a Century III aut
opilot head.=0AThis is the fourth one to the right.=0AAny help is sure appr
eciated!=0AN69PT=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0ADon't pic
k lemons.=0ASee all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AGet
your own web address.=0AHave a HUGE year through http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Commander-List the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:
=========================0A
=0A=0A =0A_________________________________________________________________
___________________=0ADon't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
=0Awith the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.=0Ahttp://tools.search.yahoo.com
/shortcuts/#loc_weather
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!! |
Fellow Commanders, please do this. It literally only took 3 minutes and is
automatic!=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded
Message ----=0AFrom: Tammy Creel <tammy(at)cfmjet.com>=0ATo: sales(at)cfmjet.com
=0ACc: everyone(at)flycfm.com=0ASent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:01:35 AM=0AS
ubject: FW: If you care about the future of aviation!!=0A=0A=0AMy Friends i
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riginal message below.=0A=0A=0A=0AThanks.=0A=0A=0A=0AAll the Best,=0A=0A=0A
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=0APlease visit our web site at: www.cfmjet.com <http://www.cfmjet.com/>
=0A=0A=0A=0AThe information transmitted is private and confidential, and is
intended=0Aonly for the person or entity to whom or which it is addressed,
and may=0Acontain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, ret
ransmission,=0Adissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in re
liance upon this=0Ainformation by persons or entities other than the intend
ed recipient is=0Aprohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact
the sender and=0Adelete the material from any computer=0A=0A _____ =0A=0A
From: Plane Fax [mailto:info(at)planefax.com] =0ASent: Monday, March 05, 2007
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!! |
That did not take long. An It showed me who the letters were going
to here in New Mexico.
Tylor Hall
First Fueling Systems
www.firstfueling.com
On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:42 AM, Donnie Rose wrote:
> Fellow Commanders, please do this. It literally only took 3 minutes
> and is automatic!
>
> Donnie Rose
> 205/492-8444
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Tammy Creel <tammy(at)cfmjet.com>
> To: sales(at)cfmjet.com
> Cc: everyone(at)flycfm.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:01:35 AM
> Subject: FW: If you care about the future of aviation!!
>
> My Friends in Aviation:
>
>
> What the NBAA is talking about below is very serious and very
> urgent! If we
> don't do something about this now, you can EXPECT new and onerous
> taxes. If
> we lose this battle, the airlines will have found a formula that
> works and
> will continue to try and eliminate general aviation as competition.
>
>
> By going to the link below you can send an urgent letter to your
> congressman. NBAA wrote the letter. It literally took me only 3
> minutes to
> do this. Please take a moment and go to this link and get the
> letter sent
> now!
>
>
> Here is the link: http://web.nbaa.org/public/govt/action/?
> ISSUE=nbaa0018
>
>
> See NBAA's original message below.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> All the Best,
>
>
> Blake Tumbleson
>
> President
>
>
> CFM Jet
>
> A Division of Corporate Flight Management, Inc.
>
>
> blake(at)cfmjet.com
>
> USA 615.220.1721 Office
>
> USA 615.948.0008 Cellular
>
> USA 615.825.0038 Fax
>
>
> Please visit our web site at: www.cfmjet.com <http://www.cfmjet.com/>
>
>
> The information transmitted is private and confidential, and is
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> upon this
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> recipient is
> prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender
> and
> delete the material from any computer
>
> _____
>
> From: Plane Fax [mailto:info(at)planefax.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 8:01 AM
> To: blake(at)cfmjet.com
> Subject: It only takes a few minutes to stop a lifetime of new
> taxes on
> Plane Fax
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!! |
Done. I'm taking every opportunity I can to express my opposition to the
FAA's plan. If we don't become a loud, singular voice, we'll lose our
flying privileges or at the very least triple the cost to enjoy this
freedom.
Unfortunately here in CA, the letters go to Boxer & Feinstein and I have
no confidence in them representing my interests....on any front.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: If you care about the future of
aviation!!
That did not take long. An It showed me who the letters were going to
here in New Mexico.
Tylor Hall
First Fueling Systems
www.firstfueling.com
On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:42 AM, Donnie Rose wrote:
Fellow Commanders, please do this. It literally only took 3 minutes
and is automatic!
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Tammy Creel <tammy(at)cfmjet.com>
To: sales(at)cfmjet.com
Cc: everyone(at)flycfm.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:01:35 AM
Subject: FW: If you care about the future of aviation!!
My Friends in Aviation:
What the NBAA is talking about below is very serious and very
urgent! If we
don't do something about this now, you can EXPECT new and onerous
taxes. If
we lose this battle, the airlines will have found a formula that
works and
will continue to try and eliminate general aviation as competition.
By going to the link below you can send an urgent letter to your
congressman. NBAA wrote the letter. It literally took me only 3
minutes to
do this. Please take a moment and go to this link and get the
letter sent
now!
Here is the link:
http://web.nbaa.org/public/govt/action/?ISSUE=nbaa0018
See NBAA's original message below.
Thanks.
All the Best,
Blake Tumbleson
President
CFM Jet
A Division of Corporate Flight Management, Inc.
blake(at)cfmjet.com
USA 615.220.1721 Office
USA 615.948.0008 Cellular
USA 615.825.0038 Fax
Please visit our web site at: www.cfmjet.com
<http://www.cfmjet.com/>
The information transmitted is private and confidential, and is
intended
only for the person or entity to whom or which it is addressed, and
may
contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review,
retransmission,
dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance
upon this
information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient
is
prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender
and
delete the material from any computer
_____
From: Plane Fax [mailto:info(at)planefax.com]
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 8:01 AM
To: blake(at)cfmjet.com
Subject: It only takes a few minutes to stop a lifetime of new taxes
on
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__________ NOD32 2113 (20070313) Information __________
__________ NOD32 2113 (20070313) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mustique Airways |
Hi All,
Jonathan Palmer, head of Mustique Airways Ltd., in St Vincent & The
Grenadines, is in the process of re-engining his 500B/U/S fleet with
IO-540-M1C5 engines.
He therefore has various IO-540-E1B5 engines, propellers and other
engine-related parts for sale, that have been removed from his three
aircraft. All have been maintained to Public Transport standards under
their CAA system, and are serviceable. He would prefer to pass these on,
at a reasonable price, to Commander enthusiasts. In his own words "I am
not looking to get rich from these parts".
Jonathan presently has one each of Models 500B, 500U and 500S. He is
looking to acquire another 500B or 500U, or a 500S if the spar mod has
been completed. SO, if anyone has one of these for sale, or knows of one
that is for sale, please let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!! |
John-
Perhaps if you suggest to them that their support of your wishes could be
non-binding- they might be more inclined to take up your cause (provided
you don't commit them to it, I mean.)
Rob
(fed up with all of them on both sides of the isle)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!!
Done. I'm taking every opportunity I can to express my opposition to the
FAA's plan. If we don't become a loud, singular voice, we'll lose our flying
privileges or at the very least triple the cost to enjoy this freedom.
Unfortunately here in CA, the letters go to Boxer & Feinstein and I have no
confidence in them representing my interests....on any front.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> Hall
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!!
That did not take long. An It showed me who the letters were going to here
in New Mexico.
Tylor Hall
First Fueling Systems
www.firstfueling.com
On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:42 AM, Donnie Rose wrote:
Fellow Commanders, please do this. It literally only took 3 minutes and is
automatic!
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Tammy Creel <tammy(at)cfmjet.com>
Cc: everyone(at)flycfm.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:01:35 AM
Subject: FW: If you care about the future of aviation!!
My Friends in Aviation:
What the NBAA is talking about below is very serious and very urgent! If we
don't do something about this now, you can EXPECT new and onerous taxes. If
we lose this battle, the airlines will have found a formula that works and
will continue to try and eliminate general aviation as competition.
By going to the link below you can send an urgent letter to your
congressman. NBAA wrote the letter. It literally took me only 3 minutes to
do this. Please take a moment and go to this link and get the letter sent
now!
Here is the link: http://web.nbaa.org/public/govt/action/?ISSUE=nbaa0018
See NBAA's original message below.
Thanks.
All the Best,
Blake Tumbleson
President
CFM Jet
A Division of Corporate Flight Management, Inc.
blake(at)cfmjet.com
USA 615.220.1721 Office
USA 615.948.0008 Cellular
USA 615.825.0038 Fax
Please visit our web site at: www.cfmjet.com <http://www.cfmjet.com/>
<http://www.cfmjet.com/>
The information transmitted is private and confidential, and is intended
only for the person or entity to whom or which it is addressed, and may
contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission,
dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this
information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and
delete the material from any computer
_____
From: Plane Fax [mailto:info(at)planefax.com]
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 8:01 AM
Subject: It only takes a few minutes to stop a lifetime of new taxes on
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__________ NOD32 2113 (20070313) Information __________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!! |
Hi All,
Oppose this FAA plan with all your might. We allowed ourselves to be lead
down this path and it has not been of any benefit to any of us.
We have to pay our regulator CASA to do everything. Remembering that when
one pays for a service one would expect performance. This does not happen.
The cost of compliance is ridiculous and you have to wait ages for
everything.
Then they sold the airports. Not to the aviation industry but to developers,
banks freight companies etc. Their idea was that privatization would lead to
competition. Strangely enough it turns out that these owners have no
interest in GA and there is no competition. To give you an idea my 4 planes,
2 warriors, super cub and 680E cost me $2000 AUD per month just to park. At
the airport they are at the number of aircraft that live there has dropped
by about 80%, we are talking about 250 to 350 plus aircraft leaving. So
guess where the owners try and get their income from, yup those that remain.
The price of owning and operating aircraft apart from the direct
maintenance, fuel etc has gone up about 400% in the last 3 years.
Privatization of basic infrastructure is a DISASTER for everyone except
those pushing for it.
Don't let them get away with it because you will regret it for many years to
come.
Cheers
>From OZ
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, 15 March 2007 5:30 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!!
John-
Perhaps if you suggest to them that their support of your wishes could be
non-binding- they might be more inclined to take up your cause (provided
you don't commit them to it, I mean.)
Rob
(fed up with all of them on both sides of the isle)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!!
Done. I'm taking every opportunity I can to express my opposition to the
FAA's plan. If we don't become a loud, singular voice, we'll lose our flying
privileges or at the very least triple the cost to enjoy this freedom.
Unfortunately here in CA, the letters go to Boxer & Feinstein and I have no
confidence in them representing my interests....on any front.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: If you care about the future of aviation!!
That did not take long. An It showed me who the letters were going to here
in New Mexico.
Tylor Hall
First Fueling Systems
www.firstfueling.com
On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:42 AM, Donnie Rose wrote:
Fellow Commanders, please do this. It literally only took 3 minutes and is
automatic!
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Tammy Creel <tammy(at)cfmjet.com>
Cc: everyone(at)flycfm.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:01:35 AM
Subject: FW: If you care about the future of aviation!!
My Friends in Aviation:
What the NBAA is talking about below is very serious and very urgent! If we
don't do something about this now, you can EXPECT new and onerous taxes. If
we lose this battle, the airlines will have found a formula that works and
will continue to try and eliminate general aviation as competition.
By going to the link below you can send an urgent letter to your
congressman. NBAA wrote the letter. It literally took me only 3 minutes to
do this. Please take a moment and go to this link and get the letter sent
now!
Here is the link: http://web.nbaa.org/public/govt/action/?ISSUE=nbaa0018
See NBAA's original message below.
Thanks.
All the Best,
Blake Tumbleson
President
CFM Jet
A Division of Corporate Flight Management, Inc.
blake(at)cfmjet.com
USA 615.220.1721 Office
USA 615.948.0008 Cellular
USA 615.825.0038 Fax
Please visit our web site at: www.cfmjet.com <http://www.cfmjet.com/>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Mustique Airways |
Hello All,
looking for under the wing inspection panels.
Thanks guys,
Brent Mueller - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi All,
Jonathan Palmer, head of Mustique Airways Ltd., in St Vincent & The Grenadines,
is in the process of re-engining his 500B/U/S fleet with IO-540-M1C5 engines.
He therefore has various IO-540-E1B5 engines, propellers and other engine-related
parts for sale, that have been removed from his three aircraft. All have been
maintained to Public Transport standards under their CAA system, and are serviceable.
He would prefer to pass these on, at a reasonable price, to Commander
enthusiasts. In his own words "I am not looking to get rich from these parts".
Jonathan presently has one each of Models 500B, 500U and 500S. He is looking to
acquire another 500B or 500U, or a 500S if the spar mod has been completed. SO,
if anyone has one of these for sale, or knows of one that is for sale, please
let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
Hello All,
looking for under the wing inspection panels.
Thanks guys,
Brent Mueller - N224HA
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
>
Hi All,
Jonathan Palmer, head of Mustique Airways Ltd.,
in St Vincent & The Grenadines, is in the process of re-engining his 500B/U/S
fleet with IO-540-M1C5 engines.
He therefore has various IO-540-E1B5 engines, propellers
and other engine-related parts for sale, that have been removed from
his three aircraft. All have been maintained to Public Transport standards under
their CAA system, and are serviceable. He would prefer to pass these
on, at a reasonable price, to Commander enthusiasts. In his own words "I am
not looking to get rich from these parts".
Jonathan presently has one each of Models 500B,
500U and 500S. He is looking to acquire another 500B or 500U, or a 500S if the
spar mod has been completed. SO, if anyone has one of these for sale, or knows
of one that is for sale, please let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Mustique Airways |
Easy to make.
----- Original Message -----
From: skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mustique Airways
Hello All,
looking for under the wing inspection panels.
Thanks guys,
Brent Mueller - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi All,
Jonathan Palmer, head of Mustique Airways Ltd., in St Vincent & The
Grenadines, is in the process of re-engining his 500B/U/S fleet with
IO-540-M1C5 engines.
He therefore has various IO-540-E1B5 engines, propellers and other
engine-related parts for sale, that have been removed from his three
aircraft. All have been maintained to Public Transport standards under
their CAA system, and are serviceable. He would prefer to pass these on,
at a reasonable price, to Commander enthusiasts. In his own words "I am
not looking to get rich from these parts".
Jonathan presently has one each of Models 500B, 500U and 500S. He is
looking to acquire another 500B or 500U, or a 500S if the spar mod has
been completed. SO, if anyone has one of these for sale, or knows of one
that is for sale, please let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Mustique Airways |
Brent,
You can make these quicker (and easier) and much cheaper than you can find
them.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mustique Airways
Hello All,
looking for under the wing inspection panels.
Thanks guys,
Brent Mueller - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi All,
Jonathan Palmer, head of Mustique Airways Ltd., in St Vincent & The
Grenadines, is in the process of re-engining his 500B/U/S fleet with
IO-540-M1C5 engines.
He therefore has various IO-540-E1B5 engines, propellers and other
engine-related parts for sale, that have been removed from his three
aircraft. All have been maintained to Public Transport standards under their
CAA system, and are serviceable. He would prefer to pass these on, at a
reasonable price, to Commander enthusiasts. In his own words "I am not
looking to get rich from these parts".
Jonathan presently has one each of Models 500B, 500U and 500S. He is looking
to acquire another 500B or 500U, or a 500S if the spar mod has been
completed. SO, if anyone has one of these for sale, or knows of one that is
for sale, please let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
Aircraft Crashes Record OfficeBureau d'Archives des Accidents A=E9ronautique
s
____________________________________
Date & Time
14 March 2007
Crew on board
2
Type of Aircraft
_Rockwell 500S Shrike Commander_
(http://www.baaa-acro.com/Types%20d'avions/Rockwell%20Commander.htm)
Pax on board
2
Company name
Bahia Taxi A=E9reo (BATA)
Crew fatalities
2
Registration
PP-SEC - (_1_ (http://www.baaa-acro.com/Photos-49/PP-SEC-1.jpg) ) - (_2_
(http://www.baaa-acro.com/Photos-49/PP-SEC-2.jpg) )
Pax fatalities
2
Location
Fazenda Nossa Senhora de Lourdes, _Brazil_
(http://www.baaa-acro.com/Pays/B/Bresil.htm)
Schedule
Petrolina - Salvador
Total fatalities
4
Construction number
3094
Year of manufacture
1971
The aircraft was making a charter flight from Petrolina to Salvador. 15
minutes before its ETA, the crew informed ATC about technical problem and th
at he
was losing altitude. Few seconds later, the twin engine aircraft crashed in
an
open field located near Fazenda Nossa Senhora de Lourdes, 60 km north of
Salvador. All four occupants were killed.
************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone
.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mustique Airways |
Try Dallas Air Salvage 1 800 336 6399 may have some used ones.
Jim Addington
N444BD
----- Original Message -----
From: skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mustique Airways
Hello All,
looking for under the wing inspection panels.
Thanks guys,
Brent Mueller - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi All,
Jonathan Palmer, head of Mustique Airways Ltd., in St Vincent & The
Grenadines, is in the process of re-engining his 500B/U/S fleet with
IO-540-M1C5 engines.
He therefore has various IO-540-E1B5 engines, propellers and other
engine-related parts for sale, that have been removed from his three
aircraft. All have been maintained to Public Transport standards under
their CAA system, and are serviceable. He would prefer to pass these on,
at a reasonable price, to Commander enthusiasts. In his own words "I am
not looking to get rich from these parts".
Jonathan presently has one each of Models 500B, 500U and 500S. He is
looking to acquire another 500B or 500U, or a 500S if the spar mod has
been completed. SO, if anyone has one of these for sale, or knows of one
that is for sale, please let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Insurance agents |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Who do people recommend to handle the insurance on an older (oldest)
commander and Yak52? I think its time to change agents.
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Insurance agents |
bc, i am with aero ins in dallas , tx dawn. on my 680fp 300K is $7000,
ann. mason
>From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Commander-List: Insurance agents
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:48:18 -0700
>
>Who do people recommend to handle the insurance on an older (oldest)
>commander and Yak52? I think its time to change agents.
>
>
> Bruce Campbell
>
> AC52 N4186B
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Insurance agents |
Bruce,
This sounds simplistic; however, I consistently get the best deal from
AVEMCO. They were less expensive for both corporate registry and private.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Insurance agents
Who do people recommend to handle the insurance on an older (oldest)
commander and Yak52? I think its time to change agents.
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Mustique Airways |
Thanks guys, we found em : ) now all we need is one hydrolic pump... part # 1P349P.
Brent Mueller - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Easy to make.
----- Original Message -----
From: skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mustique Airways
Hello All,
looking for under the wing inspection panels.
Thanks guys,
Brent Mueller - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi All,
Jonathan Palmer, head of Mustique Airways Ltd., in St Vincent & The Grenadines,
is in the process of re-engining his 500B/U/S fleet with IO-540-M1C5 engines.
He therefore has various IO-540-E1B5 engines, propellers and other engine-related
parts for sale, that have been removed from his three aircraft. All have been
maintained to Public Transport standards under their CAA system, and are serviceable.
He would prefer to pass these on, at a reasonable price, to Commander
enthusiasts. In his own words "I am not looking to get rich from these parts".
Jonathan presently has one each of Models 500B, 500U and 500S. He is looking to
acquire another 500B or 500U, or a 500S if the spar mod has been completed. SO,
if anyone has one of these for sale, or knows of one that is for sale, please
let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Thanks guys, we found em : ) now all we need is one hydrolic pump...
part # 1P349P.
Brent Mueller - N224HA
Easy to make.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mustique Airways
Hello All,
looking for under the wing inspection panels.
Thanks guys,
Brent Mueller - N224HA
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Barry Collman" <<A href="mailto:barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk">barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk</A>> <BR>
Hi All,
Jonathan Palmer, head of Mustique Airways Ltd.,
in St Vincent & The Grenadines, is in the process of re-engining his 500B/U/S
fleet with IO-540-M1C5 engines.
He therefore has various IO-540-E1B5 engines, propellers
and other engine-related parts for sale, that have been removed from
his three aircraft. All have been maintained to Public Transport standards under
their CAA system, and are serviceable. He would prefer to pass these
on, at a reasonable price, to Commander enthusiasts. In his own words "I am
not looking to get rich from these parts".
Jonathan presently has one each of Models 500B,
500U and 500S. He is looking to acquire another 500B or 500U, or a 500S if the
spar mod has been completed. SO, if anyone has one of these for sale, or knows
of one that is for sale, please let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Mustique Airways |
http://www.commander-aero.com/hpump.htm
Has them or should I say advertises that they have them.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mustique Airways
Thanks guys, we found em : ) now all we need is one hydrolic pump...
part # 1P349P.
Brent Mueller - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Easy to make.
----- Original Message -----
From: skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mustique Airways
Hello All,
looking for under the wing inspection panels.
Thanks guys,
Brent Mueller - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi All,
Jonathan Palmer, head of Mustique Airways Ltd., in St Vincent & The
Grenadines, is in the process of re-engining his 500B/U/S fleet with
IO-540-M1C5 engines.
He therefore has various IO-540-E1B5 engines, propellers and other
engine-related parts for sale, that have been removed from his three
aircraft. All have been maintained to Public Transport standards under
their CAA system, and are serviceable. He would prefer to pass these on,
at a reasonable price, to Commander enthusiasts. In his own words "I am
not looking to get rich from these parts".
Jonathan presently has one each of Models 500B, 500U and 500S. He is
looking to acquire another 500B or 500U, or a 500S if the spar mod has
been completed. SO, if anyone has one of these for sale, or knows of one
that is for sale, please let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Insurance agents |
I use EBCO Aviation Underwriters, Inc., Doug Carr. Memphis, TN
ph.901.725.0048
It is up to $4200. per year now. That is for liability and 125K hull.
Multi time is not an issue in my case.
bb
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:48 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Insurance agents
Who do people recommend to handle the insurance on an older (oldest)
commander and Yak52? I think its time to change agents.
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Insurance agents |
I started with them but the second year they said they wouldn't insure a
500A. Maybe they new something I didn't.
bb
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross
Racing Pistons
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Insurance agents
Bruce,
This sounds simplistic; however, I consistently get the best deal from
AVEMCO. They were less expensive for both corporate registry and private.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Insurance agents
Who do people recommend to handle the insurance on an older (oldest)
commander and Yak52? I think its time to change agents.
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Insurance agents |
Bill,
AVEMCO seems to be pretty picky. About 10 years ago when I was flying a
Skymaster they decided they didn't like Skymasters and refused to renew the
policy. This happened after 8 years of trouble free flying the same bird.
Perhaps they are pretty good at "looking foreword" as I had a $ 50,000.00
claim within 45 days of going to the new company. At one of the Twin
Commander Conferences, it was recommended that "at a certain age" it was
best to pick an insurance company and stick with them.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:46 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Insurance agents
I started with them but the second year they said they wouldn't insure a
500A. Maybe they new something I didn't.
bb
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross
Racing Pistons
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Insurance agents
Bruce,
This sounds simplistic; however, I consistently get the best deal from
AVEMCO. They were less expensive for both corporate registry and private.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Insurance agents
Who do people recommend to handle the insurance on an older (oldest)
commander and Yak52? I think its time to change agents.
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance agents |
Moe, Tryu Aviation Insurance Resouirces Fredrick, Md. Telephone
1-877-247-7769 or 301-682-6200 . Ask for Chris Wolbert and tell him I refered
you. They
have my 680 Insured and it was easy and they are great to work with. They also
had the best prices I could find. Good Luck Gil Walker
************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I use Halton Hall & Associates, Inc. in Fort Worth 817 293-3530. I am
in the process of renewing my insurance too.
Mine will run $3545 for $120,000. I will have had my plane 26 years
01APR07 and flying time is no factor in my case either. I am however 69
years old. I was under the impression that once some one gave you a
price that no one else could. I also called a different company a few
years back and was told that as old as I was that I had better stay with
the company I had been using.
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N69AT: "Barry Collman Help" please ID old Commander |
Hello, Barry (and all):
I have a friend on another aviation forum (Cessna Pilots Society) that is looking
for info and history of a 1954 560.
The data that I have is that it is SN:181 and was registered as N69AT in Ohio.
Thanks in advance for any data or history that anyone can provide.
All the best,
-Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Not Commander related My Project |
| From: | "N395V" <n395v(at)hughes.net> |
For those of you familiar with my current project this post covers data gained
after about 60 flight hours relative to the M14PF with an airflow performance
throttle body.
It is long and may be somewhat boring unless you are a fan of Radials and LOP.
The M14 series engines come with a pressure carbeurator (Kind of a front runner
to FI)
I had pressure carbs on my 560 commander and didn't really like em. I prefer to
do my own mixture adjustment. And plan on running LOP. As such I replaced my
pressure carb with an Airflow Performance Throttle body.This is not what you consider
classic FI)
This post chronicles my experience to date. And as mentioned it is long and boring
and as mentioned is of interest only if you are a fan of radials and LOP.
Finally have some real data with what I believe are accurate extrapolations.
The data sheets for these numbers can be found at http://www.excaliburaviation.com/al...open&menuID=8~8
Under either the M14P forum or the Radial Rocket forum
Bear in mind there will be some degree of measurement and extrapolation error and
your results may vary.
My initial estimates of fuel consumption of the M14PF using the AFP throttle body
vs the stock pressure carb were overly optimistic and based on skewed data
due to incorrectly calibrated gauges and observer bias.
I am running an M14PF on a Radial Rocket http://www.radialrocket.com/
Initially I had a good deal of heat problems (CHTs) due to baffling issues; these
have been largely resolved.
Relative to the M14PF
The fuel consumption is statistically no different between the throttle body and
the pressure carb when running rich of peak. The AFP fuel flows are what were
needed to keep my hottest CHT at or below 380 deg F this was usually 100-150
degF ROP.
Given the engine is boosted there is room for fuel savings with the throttle body
but I have not yet experimented with LOP on this engine.
Relative to the Radial Rocket
Wit this engine, prop, and airframe combination running the pressure carb or the
throttle body ROP it appears that for a burn of 15 GPH we have a.
185-190 Knot (TAS) airplane below 8000
205-210 Knot (TAS) airplane between 8000 & 11,000
220+ Knot (TAS) airplane depending on how much fuel you want to burn
I have no numbers above 12,00 feet as I am still having a problem with abrupt and
significant power loss crossing 12,000. It appears to be related to either
Icing or decreasing fuel pressure.
I am going to crank the fuel pressure on the ground up to 55-60psi and or use the
boost pump above 12,000 to see what this doe. If that doesnt work I will try
ducting some heat into the induction system.
The benefits of the Pressure Carb vs the throttle body are.
1. Ease of operation.. 1 less lever and with the throttle body you need to make
adjustments before major power changes and manage it with ascent and descent.
2. Cost (an extra $3000 for the throttle body after you have sold your carb)
Downside of the pressure carb
1. Continued availability of carb, parts, service
2. Cannot run LOP
3. If your application during the early stages requires it you cannot use fuel
flow to decrease CHTs while working out baffling issues.
Benefits of the throttle body
1. Availability of the unit, parts and service.
2. Ability to run LOP (maybe) if you are a believer.
Downside of throttle body
1. Initial cost
2. Ill let you know the rest when I get all the bugs worked out.
As soon as I get this altitude problem resolved Ill start running LOP and post
those results
carb fuel flows are derived from Dennis Savareses data found at http://home.elmore.rr.com/yak52worl...%20Settings.htm
Unless labeled carb all fuel flows are for the AFP throttle body.
CAVEATS
I am neither a mathematician nor an engine expert.
There is still some degree of measurement and extrapolation error.
This application required slightly higher fuel flow than optimal for cooling purposes.
Still have a lot of work to do and data to collect.
--------
Milt
N395V
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101658#101658
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Not Commander related My Project |
Couldn't get the link to work.
Interested in the data.
We've run our 500B LOP for years now. Hard not to be a believer when EGT's,
CHT's, and fuel flow all drop dramatically with a pull of the red handles.
Still not perfectly balanced with GAMI's biggest injector on number 5, and
their smallest on number 1, but pretty close. Same on both sides......
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <n395v(at)hughes.net>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:16 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Not Commander related My Project
>
> For those of you familiar with my current project this post covers data
> gained after about 60 flight hours relative to the M14PF with an airflow
> performance throttle body.
>
> It is long and may be somewhat boring unless you are a fan of Radials and
> LOP.
>
>
> The M14 series engines come with a pressure carbeurator (Kind of a front
> runner to FI)
>
> I had pressure carbs on my 560 commander and didn't really like em. I
> prefer to do my own mixture adjustment. And plan on running LOP. As such I
> replaced my pressure carb with an Airflow Performance Throttle body.This
> is not what you consider classic FI)
>
> This post chronicles my experience to date. And as mentioned it is long
> and boring and as mentioned is of interest only if you are a fan of
> radials and LOP.
>
> Finally have some real data with what I believe are accurate
> extrapolations.
> The data sheets for these numbers can be found at
> http://www.excaliburaviation.com/al...open&menuID=8~8
>
> Under either the M14P forum or the Radial Rocket forum
>
>
> Bear in mind there will be some degree of measurement and extrapolation
> error and your results may vary.
>
> My initial estimates of fuel consumption of the M14PF using the AFP
> throttle body vs the stock pressure carb were overly optimistic and based
> on skewed data due to incorrectly calibrated gauges and observer bias.
>
> I am running an M14PF on a Radial Rocket http://www.radialrocket.com/
>
>
> Initially I had a good deal of heat problems (CHTs) due to baffling
> issues; these have been largely resolved.
>
> Relative to the M14PF
> The fuel consumption is statistically no different between the throttle
> body and the pressure carb when running rich of peak. The AFP fuel flows
> are what were needed to keep my hottest CHT at or below 380 deg F this was
> usually 100-150 degF ROP.
>
> Given the engine is boosted there is room for fuel savings with the
> throttle body but I have not yet experimented with LOP on this engine.
>
>
> Relative to the Radial Rocket
>
> Wit this engine, prop, and airframe combination running the pressure carb
> or the throttle body ROP it appears that for a burn of 15 GPH we have
> a?????????.
> 185-190 Knot (TAS) airplane below 8000?T
> 205-210 Knot (TAS) airplane between 8000?T & 11,000?T
> 220+ Knot (TAS) airplane depending on how much fuel you want to burn
>
> I have no numbers above 12,00 feet as I am still having a problem with
> abrupt and significant power loss crossing 12,000?T. It appears to be
> related to either Icing or decreasing fuel pressure.
>
> I am going to crank the fuel pressure on the ground up to 55-60psi and or
> use the boost pump above 12,000?T to see what this doe. If that doesn?Tt
> work I will try ducting some heat into the induction system.
>
> The benefits of the Pressure Carb vs the throttle body are?.
> 1. Ease of operation.. 1 less lever and with the throttle body you need to
> make adjustments before major power changes and manage it with ascent and
> descent.
> 2. Cost (an extra $3000 for the throttle body after you have sold your
> carb)
> Downside of the pressure carb
> 1. Continued availability of carb, parts, service
> 2. Cannot run LOP
> 3. If your application during the early stages requires it you cannot use
> fuel flow to decrease CHTs while working out baffling issues.
>
> Benefits of the throttle body
> 1. Availability of the unit, parts and service.
> 2. Ability to run LOP (maybe) if you are a believer.
> Downside of throttle body
> 1. Initial cost
> 2. I?Tll let you know the rest when I get all the bugs worked out.
> As soon as I get this altitude problem resolved I?Tll start running LOP
> and post those results
>
> ?ocarb? fuel flows are derived from Dennis Savareses data found at
> http://home.elmore.rr.com/yak52worl...%20Settings.htm
>
>
> Unless labeled ?carb? all fuel flows are for the AFP throttle body.
>
> CAVEATS
>
> I am neither a mathematician nor an engine expert.
> There is still some degree of measurement and extrapolation error.
> This application required slightly higher fuel flow than optimal for
> cooling purposes.
> Still have a lot of work to do and data to collect.
>
> --------
> Milt
> N395V
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101658#101658
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Not Commander related My Project |
| From: | "N395V" <n395v(at)hughes.net> |
Steve,
Go to www.excaliburaviation.com and look under communications then open mic forum. or send me an e mail address and I'll e mail the spreadsheet. Milt
n395v(at)hughes.net
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have made a difference to
the world, but the Marines dont have that problem. - Ronald Reagan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101679#101679
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew J. Hawkins" <hawkins(at)cms.udel.edu> |
| Subject: | Carb heat cables |
All-
Going through annual on N2760B. Looking for two carb heat cables - the ~3' ones
under that dash between the pull knob and the rest of the rigging. Anyone
have a source for these?
Also - looks like I might have to do a Cleveland brake conversion. Any pointers?
She's a 560A.
Thanks,
Matt
********************
Matthew Hawkins
Director, Marine Ops
R/V HUGH R. SHARP
302-645-4341
FAX: 302-645-4006
hawkins(at)udel.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The Death of N4186B |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
King County Sherriff's aviation division drove a fuel truck into the
wing of 4186B last week. It damaged the truck. The wing of the plane
appears to be damaged structurally all the way to the wing root as well
as the control linkages and possibly pullies in the fuselage (they ran
into the aileron from behind). I believe it is a clear total. King
County is self insured. When (if) I get the insurance (compensation) I
will be looking for another Twin Commander.
It won't be for a while, I suspect. But sometime this summer I think the
thing to do will be a plane Cleveland brakes and a good autopilot
already certified, and props at least some distance from inspection. I
suspect that would be a 680 or 560F. My budget would be somewhere south
of 100k. Any candidates that folks could recommend would be greatly
appreciated.
I've enjoyed flying the 520 . Flying patrols in it was fabulous (a *big*
plane at 500ft above the San Juans, occasionally having to turn those
tight figure eights to inspect something. It doesn't get much better).
As a cross country machine it was just plain (or plane?) delight. It
always had plenty of power, and handled well., and after a few fixes to
the undercarriage, it taxied well. The best part was TC, who was always
ready to help, either with parts or the necessary info, to keep 'em
flying.
Oh well...
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1 <bertberry1(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Death of N4186B |
Hey Bruce,
Sorry for your lose, it looks like N4186B cheated death once before in Flori
da. Would you happen to have any photos that you could share with us?
Thanks,
Bert
In a message dated 03/21/07 11:05:47 Central Daylight Time, brcamp(at)windows.m
icrosoft.com writes:
King County Sherriff=99s aviation division drove a fuel truck into the
wing of 4186B last week. It damaged the truck. The wing of the plane appe
ars to be damaged structurally all the way to the wing root as well as the c
ontrol linkages and possibly pullies in the fuselage (they ran into the aile
ron from behind). I believe it is a clear total. King County is self insure
d. When (if) I get the insurance (compensation) I will be looking for anot
her Twin Commander.
It won=99t be for a while, I suspect. But sometime this summer I think
the thing to do will be a plane Cleveland brakes and a good autopilot alrea
dy certified, and props at least some distance from inspection. I suspect
that would be a 680 or 560F. My budget would be somewhere south of 100k. A
ny candidates that folks could recommend would be greatly appreciated.
I=99ve enjoyed flying the 520 . Flying patrols in it was fabulous (a *
big* plane at 500ft above the San Juans, occasionally having to turn those t
ight figure eights to inspect something. It doesn=99t get much better)
. As a cross country machine it was just plain (or plane?) delight. It alw
ays had plenty of power, and handled well., and after a few fixes to the und
ercarriage, it taxied well. The best part was TC, who was always ready to h
elp, either with parts or the necessary info, to keep =98em flying.
Oh well
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The Death of N4186B |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Girod" <DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Death of N4186B |
Bruce;
Sorry to hear about your Commander, that is almost like a family member.
The good news, is you can replace it.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Campbell
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
King County Sherriff's aviation division drove a fuel truck into the
wing of 4186B last week. It damaged the truck. The wing of the plane
appears to be damaged structurally all the way to the wing root as well
as the control linkages and possibly pullies in the fuselage (they ran
into the aileron from behind). I believe it is a clear total. King
County is self insured. When (if) I get the insurance (compensation) I
will be looking for another Twin Commander.
It won't be for a while, I suspect. But sometime this summer I think
the thing to do will be a plane Cleveland brakes and a good autopilot
already certified, and props at least some distance from inspection. I
suspect that would be a 680 or 560F. My budget would be somewhere south
of 100k. Any candidates that folks could recommend would be greatly
appreciated.
I've enjoyed flying the 520 . Flying patrols in it was fabulous (a
*big* plane at 500ft above the San Juans, occasionally having to turn
those tight figure eights to inspect something. It doesn't get much
better). As a cross country machine it was just plain (or plane?)
delight. It always had plenty of power, and handled well., and after a
few fixes to the undercarriage, it taxied well. The best part was TC,
who was always ready to help, either with parts or the necessary info,
to keep 'em flying.
Oh well.
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
3/21/2007 7:52 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Death of N4186B |
Hi Bruce,
I'm so sorry to hear the new on 4186B. The fuel truck driver should be
strung up.
For my database though, would you be kind enough to let me know the date
this happened?
Sincere Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Campbell
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
I have pictures, need to wait until tomorrow as they are in the
camera, which is elsewhere.
I know the plane was down on its nose once. We fixed it beautifully
after noting a not-so-effective repair before.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BertBerry1
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:14 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
Hey Bruce,
Sorry for your lose, it looks like N4186B cheated death once before in
Florida. Would you happen to have any photos that you could share with
us?
Thanks,
Bert
In a message dated 03/21/07 11:05:47 Central Daylight Time,
brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com writes:
King County Sherriff=99s aviation division drove a fuel truck
into the wing of 4186B last week. It damaged the truck. The wing of
the plane appears to be damaged structurally all the way to the wing
root as well as the control linkages and possibly pullies in the
fuselage (they ran into the aileron from behind). I believe it is a
clear total. King County is self insured. When (if) I get the
insurance (compensation) I will be looking for another Twin Commander.
It won=99t be for a while, I suspect. But sometime this summer
I think the thing to do will be a plane Cleveland brakes and a good
autopilot already certified, and props at least some distance from
inspection. I suspect that would be a 680 or 560F. My budget would be
somewhere south of 100k. Any candidates that folks could recommend
would be greatly appreciated.
I=99ve enjoyed flying the 520 . Flying patrols in it was
fabulous (a *big* plane at 500ft above the San Juans, occasionally
having to turn those tight figure eights to inspect something. It
doesn=99t get much better). As a cross country machine it was
just plain (or plane?) delight. It always had plenty of power, and
handled well., and after a few fixes to the undercarriage, it taxied
well. The best part was TC, who was always ready to help, either with
parts or the necessary info, to keep =98em flying.
Oh well
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"
alt="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List.matronics.com"
alt="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
====================
=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=03g(=EF
=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDM=EF=BDGq=EF=BDz=EF=BD=EF=BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Death of N4186B |
Bruce,
THAT SUCKS! I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I know I would be
devastated if something like that happened to my airplane. I hope you
stay in the Commander family and find another fine airplane to fly.
As morbid as it sounds, I too would like to see photos.
Best regards,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Campbell
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:01 AM
Subject: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
King County Sherriff's aviation division drove a fuel truck into the
wing of 4186B last week. It damaged the truck. The wing of the plane
appears to be damaged structurally all the way to the wing root as well
as the control linkages and possibly pullies in the fuselage (they ran
into the aileron from behind). I believe it is a clear total. King
County is self insured. When (if) I get the insurance (compensation) I
will be looking for another Twin Commander.
It won't be for a while, I suspect. But sometime this summer I think
the thing to do will be a plane Cleveland brakes and a good autopilot
already certified, and props at least some distance from inspection. I
suspect that would be a 680 or 560F. My budget would be somewhere south
of 100k. Any candidates that folks could recommend would be greatly
appreciated.
I've enjoyed flying the 520 . Flying patrols in it was fabulous (a
*big* plane at 500ft above the San Juans, occasionally having to turn
those tight figure eights to inspect something. It doesn't get much
better). As a cross country machine it was just plain (or plane?)
delight. It always had plenty of power, and handled well., and after a
few fixes to the undercarriage, it taxied well. The best part was TC,
who was always ready to help, either with parts or the necessary info,
to keep 'em flying.
Oh well.
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
__________ NOD32 2131 (20070321) Information __________
__________ NOD32 2131 (20070321) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The Death of N4186B |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | The Death of N4186B |
Bruce,
Sorry to here your terrible news, was the ramp guy drinking? or maybe he didn't
know where there is an empinage there is likely a wing attached to it. Wonder
if N55BW was ever fixed...
Brent - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com>
15th Mar 2007.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
Hi Bruce,
I'm so sorry to hear the new on 4186B. The fuel truck driver should be strung up.
For my database though, would you be kind enough to let me know the date this happened?
Sincere Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
I have pictures, need to wait until tomorrow as they are in the camera, which is
elsewhere.
I know the plane was down on its nose once. We fixed it beautifully after noting
a not-so-effective repair before.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BertBerry1
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
Hey Bruce,
Sorry for your lose, it looks like N4186B cheated death once before in Florida.
Would you happen to have any photos that you could share with us?
Thanks,
Bert
In a message dated 03/21/07 11:05:47 Central Daylight Time, brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com
writes:
King County Sherriffs aviation division drove a fuel truck into the wing of 4186B
last week. It damaged the truck. The wing of the plane appears to be damaged
structurally all the way to the wing root as well as the control linkages
and possibly pullies in the fuselage (they ran into the aileron from behind).
I believe it is a clear total. King County is self insured. When (if) I get
the insurance (compensation) I will be looking for another Twin Commander.
It wont be for a while, I suspect. But sometime this summer I think the thing to
do will be a plane Cleveland brakes and a good autopilot already certified,
and props at least some distance from inspection. I suspect that would be a
680 or 560F. My budget would be somewhere south of 100k. Any candidates that
folks could recommend would be greatly appreciated.
Ive enjoyed flying the 520 . Flying patrols in it was fabulous (a *big* plane at
500ft above the San Juans, occasionally having to turn those tight figure eights
to inspect something. It doesnt get much better). As a cross country machine
it was just plain (or plane?) delight. It always had plenty of power, and
handled well., and after a few fixes to the undercarriage, it taxied well.
The best part was TC, who was always ready to help, either with parts or the necessary
info, to keep em flying.
Oh well
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List" alt="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
.matronics.com" alt="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
~,
g(MGqz
'"%M4Mz{zi&j)R1kxyn5hhX!Jr*'Z!Ir:0Z6(Z>-Zjw!k0'r5hfu.+-m 0froj j+*&z4N4aSPI j{^joaohfri'rm
Bruce,
Sorry to here your terrible news, was the ramp guy drinking? or maybe he didn't
know where there is an empinage there is likely a wing attached to
it. Wonder if N55BW was ever fixed...
Brent - N224HA
15th Mar 2007.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:54 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
I'm
so sorry to hear the new on 4186B. The fuel truck driver should be
strung up.
For
my database though, would you be kind enough to let me know the date
this happened?
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Wednesday, March 21, 2007 4:35 PM
Subject:
RE: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
I have pictures, need to wait until
tomorrow as they are in the camera, which is elsewhere.
I know the plane was down on its
nose once. We fixed it beautifully after noting a not-so-effective repair
before.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BertBerry1
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:14 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: The Death of N4186B
Sorry
for your lose, it looks like N4186B cheated death once
before in Florida. Would you happen to have any photos that you could
share with us?
In
a message dated 03/21/07 11:05:47 Central Daylight Time,
brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com writes:
King County Sherriffs aviation division
drove a fuel truck into the wing of 4186B last week. It damaged
the truck. The wing of the plane appears to be damaged structurally all the
way to the wing root as well as the control linkages and possibly pullies in
the fuselage (they ran into the aileron from behind). I believe it is a clear
total. King County is self insured. When (if) I get the insurance
(compensation) I will be looking for another Twin Commander.
It wont be for a while, I suspect.
But sometime this summer I think the thing to do will be a plane Cleveland brakes
and a good autopilot already certified, and props at least some distance
from inspection. I suspect that would be a 680 or 560F. My
budget would be somewhere south of 100k. Any candidates that folks could
recommend would be greatly appreciated.
Ive enjoyed flying the 520 . Flying
patrols in it was fabulous (a *big* plane at 500ft above the San Juans,
occasionally having to turn those tight figure eights to inspect something.
It doesnt get much better). As a cross country machine it was just plain
(or plane?) delight. It always had plenty of power, and handled well.,
and after a few fixes to the undercarriage, it taxied well. The best part
was TC, who was always ready to help, either with parts or the necessary info,
to keep em flying.
Oh well
Bruce Campbell
AC52 N4186B
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List" alt="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
.matronics.com" alt="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://forums.matronics.com
~,
g(MGqz
cs.com
0'r5hfu.+-m 0froj j+*&z4N4aSPI j{^joaohfri'rm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The Death of N4186B |
In a message dated 3/21/2007 9:05:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com writes:
I=99ve enjoyed flying the 520 .
Wow, so sorry to hear that!! Good luck. jb
.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carb heat cables |
In a message dated 3/20/2007 5:00:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
hawkins(at)cms.udel.edu writes:
Also - looks like I might have to do a Cleveland brake conversion. Any
pointers? She's a 560A.
Yes, call me. jb 360-903-6901
Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COMMANDER560(at)cs.com |
Hi JB, Malcomb Ford is having his 560F annualed now, at FFC. He might sell
it, if Bruce is interested. Thanks, Joe Shepherd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N395V" <n395v(at)hughes.net> |
[quote="COMMANDER560(at)cs.com"]Hi JB, Malcomb Ford is having his 560F annualed
now, at FFC. He might sell it, if Bruce is interested. Thanks, Joe Shepherd
> [b]
It is really a nice 560 I have flown in it and I believe JimBob did the pre buy
inspection so it should be in great sahpe.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have made a difference to
the world, but the Marines dont have that problem. - Ronald Reagan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102289#102289
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
I'd definitely be interested in hearing more... Maybe pictures and numbers.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:48 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: 560F
[quote="COMMANDER560(at)cs.com"]Hi JB, Malcomb Ford is having his 560F annualed
now, at FFC. He might sell it, if Bruce is interested. Thanks, Joe Shepherd
> [b]
It is really a nice 560 I have flown in it and I believe JimBob did the pre buy
inspection so it should be in great sahpe.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have made a difference to
the world, but the Marines dont have that problem. - Ronald Reagan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102289#102289
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COMMANDER560(at)cs.com |
Malcomb Fords number is 340-771-7222, I don't know for sure if it is for
sale, but just ask. Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
Due to personal circumstances I am getting rid of my 500A project. Let me
know if you are interested. It is the cheapest Twin Commander to operate
there is.
Pictures can be seen at
http://home.earthlink.net/~bowing74
As I was told more that once "Commander ownership is not for everyone". I
guess it's not for me.
bilbo
N78379
1962 500A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I hate to see you go but hope you will stay with the TCFG at least on the
email and come to the flyin this year. I know you are disappointed and I
teased a little hard I was not thinking sorry about that. Hope that some
thing will come up that you will be able to keep it. Maybe win the lotto or
something.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 500A
> Due to personal circumstances I am getting rid of my 500A project. Let me
> know if you are interested. It is the cheapest Twin Commander to operate
> there is.
>
> Pictures can be seen at
http://home.earthlink.net/~bowing74
>
> As I was told more that once "Commander ownership is not for everyone".
> I
> guess it's not for me.
>
> bilbo
> N78379
> 1962 500A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)gmail.com> |
Bill:
Sorry to hear this news. N811D is now based out at Flabob, minutes from
that place we met at in Riverside a couple of years ago. If you are still
making that run out to the West Coast, any time you wannna fly...
ak
On 3/22/07, Bill Bow
wrote:
>
> Due to personal circumstances I am getting rid of my 500A project. Let me
> know if you are interested. It is the cheapest Twin Commander to operate
> there is.
>
> Pictures can be seen at http://home.earthlink.net/~bowing74
>
> As I was told more that once "Commander ownership is not for everyone".
> I
> guess it's not for me.
>
> bilbo
> N78379
> 1962 500A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net |
bb
Time to get rid of those damn horses...: ) "just kidding"
You have a superb 500A Bill, after talking to you about it at length, it seems
you really don't need much to get her airworthy again. I hate to see you part
her. But then again, I was told too...
Brent - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck(at)gmail.com>
Bill:
Sorry to hear this news. N811D is now based out at Flabob, minutes from that place
we met at in Riverside a couple of years ago. If you are still making that
run out to the West Coast, any time you wannna fly...
ak
On 3/22/07, Bill Bow wrote:
Due to personal circumstances I am getting rid of my 500A project. Let me
know if you are interested. It is the cheapest Twin Commander to operate
there is.
Pictures can be seen at http://home.earthlink.net/~bowing74
As I was told more that once "Commander ownership is not for everyone". I
guess it's not for me.
bilbo
N78379
1962 500A
bb
Time to get rid of those damn horses...: ) "just kidding"
You have a superb 500A Bill, after talking to you about it at length,
it seems you really don't need much to get her airworthy again. I
hate to see you part her. But then again, I was told too...
Brent - N224HA
Bill:
Sorry to hear this news.
N811D is now based out at Flabob, minutes from that place we met at in Riverside
a couple of years ago. If you are still making that run out to the West
Coast, any time you wannna fly...
ak
On 3/22/07, Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
Due to personal circumstances I am getting rid of my 500A project. Let me
know if you are interested. It is the cheapest Twin Commander to operate
there is.
Pictures can be seen at http://home.earthlink.net/~bowing74
As I was told more that once "Commander ownership is not for everyone". I
guess it's not for me.
bilbo
N78379
1962 500A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harry Merritt" <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb heat cables |
Mat I Have the cable: $100.00
New Rotor 100.00
New Caliper 250.00
Pucks 6 @ 40.00 = 240.00
20 Drive Keys & Bolts 160.00
Freight included (Ground)
Pay after you received
Harry
321 267-3141
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew J. Hawkins" <hawkins(at)cms.udel.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:55 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Carb heat cables
>
>
> All-
>
> Going through annual on N2760B. Looking for two carb heat cables - the
> ~3' ones under that dash between the pull knob and the rest of the
> rigging. Anyone have a source for these?
>
> Also - looks like I might have to do a Cleveland brake conversion. Any
> pointers? She's a 560A.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
> ********************
> Matthew Hawkins
> Director, Marine Ops
> R/V HUGH R. SHARP
> 302-645-4341
> FAX: 302-645-4006
> hawkins(at)udel.edu
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have
enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
________________________________________________________________________________
Happy Anniversary! I don't think any amount is too much to pay for a
Commander ;-)
Here's to the next 26 years.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have
enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
ja, way to go. go fly her to celebrate. mason it is to pretty of a
day to waste.
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman<mailto:barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Happy Anniversary! I don't think any amount is too much to pay for a
Commander ;-)
Here's to the next 26 years.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington<mailto:jtaddington(at)charter.net>
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have
enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Wish I could, I have to go relieve the care giver that is looking after
mother.
Thanks
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
ja, way to go. go fly her to celebrate. mason it is to pretty of a
day to waste.
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Happy Anniversary! I don't think any amount is too much to pay for a
Commander ;-)
Here's to the next 26 years.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure
have enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Thanks, it has been a fun plane to fly.
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Happy Anniversary! I don't think any amount is too much to pay for a
Commander ;-)
Here's to the next 26 years.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have
enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net |
Jim,
Happy Commander N444BD Anniversary! Must be a nice plane for you to have kept
her all this time.
Brent - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Thanks, it has been a fun plane to fly.
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Happy Anniversary! I don't think any amount is too much to pay for a Commander
;-)
Here's to the next 26 years.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have enjoyed it,
paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Jim,
Happy Commander N444BD Anniversary! Must be a nice plane
for you to have kept her all this time.
Brent - N224HA
Thanks, it has been a fun plane to fly.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Happy Anniversary! I don't think any amount is too
much to pay for a Commander ;-)
Here's to the next 26 years.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander
and I, sure have enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Girod" <DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Jim;
How many hours have you added on the meter in 26 years? And any
emergencies? Hope not.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have
enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
3/31/2007 8:54 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
Happy Anniversary.
bb
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:15 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have enjoyed
it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Thanks, I have tried to trade it several times but decided what I had
fit my needs better and cheaper.
Thanks
Jim
N444BD
----- Original Message -----
From: skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Jim,
Happy Commander N444BD Anniversary! Must be a nice plane for you to
have kept her all this time.
Brent - N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net>
Thanks, it has been a fun plane to fly.
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Happy Anniversary! I don't think any amount is too much to pay for
a Commander ;-)
Here's to the next 26 years.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure
have enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it and yes I have
had some problems. The gear handle broke off in my hand with the gear up
but I managed to fish around enough to get the gear down.
I had 4 hydraulic failures before we found the real problem. Then on
takeoff I blew one of the hydraulic hoses,that we had replaced. The
stand pipe saved the day and did not have any problems with any of them
although I was concerned that I would lose all the fluid as I did not
know where the leak was.
I had the tail slam down because of snow on the elevator, here in
Denton, Texas, where we don't get much snow at all. It was parked out
side waiting on an inspection, needless to say I now have a tail stand.
I rented the plane out when I first got it and had a customer take it
to OKC where a storm whip the tail so hard that it popped the internal
gust lock loose, that is if he had it installed, and broke the bell
crank. I now have an external gust lock and highly recommend every
AeroCommander owner have one, if you cannot buy one they are easy to
make.
I had a prop AD done on it and of course they said I needed a prop
blade changed. I went through three spinner back plates and three
repaired back plates before I could get it back in to get it checked.
Well guess what, the blade was too long, out of balance, and out of
pitch. After going round and round with them I finally got a new back
plate and spinner out of them, but needless to say, I won't be going
back to that shop. One of the back plate cracks was 50 miles of shore
that could have gotten interesting if the spinner had broken loose.
The next thing was the feathering stop cracked. I think I finally have
every thing fixed.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
From: Don Girod
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Jim;
How many hours have you added on the meter in 26 years? And any
emergencies? Hope not.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have
enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 3/31/2007 8:54 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Thanks You will have to come fly with me some time if you are going to
sell yours.
Jim
N444BD
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Bow
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 26 Years
Happy Anniversary.
bb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:15 AM
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have
enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Do I understand that you have put 700 hours on your commander in 26
years?? I have had a 500S for 3 years and have 772 hours on it. My
wife says I fly too much.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it and yes I have
had some problems. The gear handle broke off in my hand with the gear up
but I managed to fish around enough to get the gear down.
I had 4 hydraulic failures before we found the real problem. Then on
takeoff I blew one of the hydraulic hoses,that we had replaced. The
stand pipe saved the day and did not have any problems with any of them
although I was concerned that I would lose all the fluid as I did not
know where the leak was.
I had the tail slam down because of snow on the elevator, here in
Denton, Texas, where we don't get much snow at all. It was parked out
side waiting on an inspection, needless to say I now have a tail stand.
I rented the plane out when I first got it and had a customer take it
to OKC where a storm whip the tail so hard that it popped the internal
gust lock loose, that is if he had it installed, and broke the bell
crank. I now have an external gust lock and highly recommend every
AeroCommander owner have one, if you cannot buy one they are easy to
make.
I had a prop AD done on it and of course they said I needed a prop
blade changed. I went through three spinner back plates and three
repaired back plates before I could get it back in to get it checked.
Well guess what, the blade was too long, out of balance, and out of
pitch. After going round and round with them I finally got a new back
plate and spinner out of them, but needless to say, I won't be going
back to that shop. One of the back plate cracks was 50 miles of shore
that could have gotten interesting if the spinner had broken loose.
The next thing was the feathering stop cracked. I think I finally have
every thing fixed.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
From: Don <mailto:DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net> Girod
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Jim;
How many hours have you added on the meter in 26 years? And any
emergencies? Hope not.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim <mailto:jtaddington(at)charter.net> Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have
enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_____
Date: 3/31/2007 8:54 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I had a regular flying job and did not get to fly any where as much as I
would like to have. I retired and was flying a lot for the USCG AUX
until they shut down flying inland and then they shut it down on the
coast. They have just come out with a directive that if the engines and
props have not been overhauled time wise and years wise you are out. I
can't justify $50,000 to do both engines and props on the Commander and
the Citabria. The company I worked for for almost 33 years and have been
retired from over 10 years cut my retirement by 75% so with that and the
price of gas
I have not been doing much flying lately. I think the plane has about
3700 hours total time, it had something like 2600 hrs when I bought it.
I had a couple of guys that rented it quite a bit until I got concerned
about liability.
----- Original Message -----
From: dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 26 Years
Do I understand that you have put 700 hours on your commander in 26
years?? I have had a 500S for 3 years and have 772 hours on it. My
wife says I fly too much.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:09 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it and yes I
have had some problems. The gear handle broke off in my hand with the
gear up but I managed to fish around enough to get the gear down.
I had 4 hydraulic failures before we found the real problem. Then on
takeoff I blew one of the hydraulic hoses,that we had replaced. The
stand pipe saved the day and did not have any problems with any of them
although I was concerned that I would lose all the fluid as I did not
know where the leak was.
I had the tail slam down because of snow on the elevator, here in
Denton, Texas, where we don't get much snow at all. It was parked out
side waiting on an inspection, needless to say I now have a tail stand.
I rented the plane out when I first got it and had a customer take it
to OKC where a storm whip the tail so hard that it popped the internal
gust lock loose, that is if he had it installed, and broke the bell
crank. I now have an external gust lock and highly recommend every
AeroCommander owner have one, if you cannot buy one they are easy to
make.
I had a prop AD done on it and of course they said I needed a prop
blade changed. I went through three spinner back plates and three
repaired back plates before I could get it back in to get it checked.
Well guess what, the blade was too long, out of balance, and out of
pitch. After going round and round with them I finally got a new back
plate and spinner out of them, but needless to say, I won't be going
back to that shop. One of the back plate cracks was 50 miles of shore
that could have gotten interesting if the spinner had broken loose.
The next thing was the feathering stop cracked. I think I finally
have every thing fixed.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
From: Don Girod
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Jim;
How many hours have you added on the meter in 26 years? And any
emergencies? Hope not.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure
have enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Date: 3/31/2007 8:54 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com - The Commander-List Email Forum
- --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -
NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Girod" <DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it
Jim;
My Commander is a little bit like Linus's blanket, I just enjoy having
it around and KNOWING anytime I want, I can go get a God's eye view.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
That is what mine is like too, it's just part of the family. It is that
time of the year for mine so it is down right now but don't know of any
thing wrong with it, it flew in it ought to fly out, right.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Girod
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it
Jim;
My Commander is a little bit like Linus's blanket, I just enjoy having
it around and KNOWING anytime I want, I can go get a God's eye view.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Jim-
You another member of the "Former Employee but Currently Disgruntled UAL
Club?"
Rob
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 17:54
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I had a regular flying job and did not get to fly any where as much as I
would like to have. I retired and was flying a lot for the USCG AUX until
they shut down flying inland and then they shut it down on the coast. They
have just come out with a directive that if the engines and props have not
been overhauled time wise and years wise you are out. I can't justify
$50,000 to do both engines and props on the Commander and the Citabria. The
company I worked for for almost 33 years and have been retired from over 10
years cut my retirement by 75% so with that and the price of gas
I have not been doing much flying lately. I think the plane has about 3700
hours total time, it had something like 2600 hrs when I bought it. I had a
couple of guys that rented it quite a bit until I got concerned about
liability.
----- Original Message -----
From: dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 26 Years
Do I understand that you have put 700 hours on your commander in 26 years??
I have had a 500S for 3 years and have 772 hours on it. My wife says I fly
too much.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it and yes I have had
some problems. The gear handle broke off in my hand with the gear up but I
managed to fish around enough to get the gear down.
I had 4 hydraulic failures before we found the real problem. Then on takeoff
I blew one of the hydraulic hoses,that we had replaced. The stand pipe saved
the day and did not have any problems with any of them although I was
concerned that I would lose all the fluid as I did not know where the leak
was.
I had the tail slam down because of snow on the elevator, here in Denton,
Texas, where we don't get much snow at all. It was parked out side waiting
on an inspection, needless to say I now have a tail stand.
I rented the plane out when I first got it and had a customer take it to
OKC where a storm whip the tail so hard that it popped the internal gust
lock loose, that is if he had it installed, and broke the bell crank. I now
have an external gust lock and highly recommend every AeroCommander owner
have one, if you cannot buy one they are easy to make.
I had a prop AD done on it and of course they said I needed a prop blade
changed. I went through three spinner back plates and three repaired back
plates before I could get it back in to get it checked. Well guess what, the
blade was too long, out of balance, and out of pitch. After going round and
round with them I finally got a new back plate and spinner out of them, but
needless to say, I won't be going back to that shop. One of the back plate
cracks was 50 miles of shore that could have gotten interesting if the
spinner had broken loose.
The next thing was the feathering stop cracked. I think I finally have
every thing fixed.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
From: Don <mailto:DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net> Girod
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Jim;
How many hours have you added on the meter in 26 years? And any
emergencies? Hope not.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim <mailto:jtaddington(at)charter.net> Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure have enjoyed
it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_____
Date: 3/31/2007 8:54 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2161 (20070401) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Girod" <DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Right!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
That is what mine is like too, it's just part of the family. It is
that time of the year for mine so it is down right now but don't know of
any thing wrong with it, it flew in it ought to fly out, right.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Girod
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it
Jim;
My Commander is a little bit like Linus's blanket, I just enjoy
having it around and KNOWING anytime I want, I can go get a God's eye
view.
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
3/31/2007 8:54 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
I am afraid I am out of the Delta club. The retired pilots are the only
ones that were targeted.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 26 Years
Jim-
You another member of the "Former Employee but Currently Disgruntled
UAL Club?"
Rob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 17:54
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I had a regular flying job and did not get to fly any where as much as
I would like to have. I retired and was flying a lot for the USCG AUX
until they shut down flying inland and then they shut it down on the
coast. They have just come out with a directive that if the engines and
props have not been overhauled time wise and years wise you are out. I
can't justify $50,000 to do both engines and props on the Commander and
the Citabria. The company I worked for for almost 33 years and have been
retired from over 10 years cut my retirement by 75% so with that and the
price of gas
I have not been doing much flying lately. I think the plane has about
3700 hours total time, it had something like 2600 hrs when I bought it.
I had a couple of guys that rented it quite a bit until I got concerned
about liability.
----- Original Message -----
From: dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 26 Years
Do I understand that you have put 700 hours on your commander in 26
years?? I have had a 500S for 3 years and have 772 hours on it. My
wife says I fly too much.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:09 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it and yes I
have had some problems. The gear handle broke off in my hand with the
gear up but I managed to fish around enough to get the gear down.
I had 4 hydraulic failures before we found the real problem. Then on
takeoff I blew one of the hydraulic hoses,that we had replaced. The
stand pipe saved the day and did not have any problems with any of them
although I was concerned that I would lose all the fluid as I did not
know where the leak was.
I had the tail slam down because of snow on the elevator, here in
Denton, Texas, where we don't get much snow at all. It was parked out
side waiting on an inspection, needless to say I now have a tail stand.
I rented the plane out when I first got it and had a customer take
it to OKC where a storm whip the tail so hard that it popped the
internal gust lock loose, that is if he had it installed, and broke the
bell crank. I now have an external gust lock and highly recommend every
AeroCommander owner have one, if you cannot buy one they are easy to
make.
I had a prop AD done on it and of course they said I needed a prop
blade changed. I went through three spinner back plates and three
repaired back plates before I could get it back in to get it checked.
Well guess what, the blade was too long, out of balance, and out of
pitch. After going round and round with them I finally got a new back
plate and spinner out of them, but needless to say, I won't be going
back to that shop. One of the back plate cracks was 50 miles of shore
that could have gotten interesting if the spinner had broken loose.
The next thing was the feathering stop cracked. I think I finally
have every thing fixed.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
From: Don Girod
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Jim;
How many hours have you added on the meter in 26 years? And any
emergencies? Hope not.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure
have enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 3/31/2007 8:54 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com - The Commander-List Email Forum
- --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -
NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2161 (20070401) Information __________
--> http://forums.matronics.com
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)charter.net> |
Durward Bradshaw lives next door and was UAL, I did not know it was
contagious. He is a nice guy.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 26 Years
Jim-
You another member of the "Former Employee but Currently Disgruntled
UAL Club?"
Rob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 17:54
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I had a regular flying job and did not get to fly any where as much as
I would like to have. I retired and was flying a lot for the USCG AUX
until they shut down flying inland and then they shut it down on the
coast. They have just come out with a directive that if the engines and
props have not been overhauled time wise and years wise you are out. I
can't justify $50,000 to do both engines and props on the Commander and
the Citabria. The company I worked for for almost 33 years and have been
retired from over 10 years cut my retirement by 75% so with that and the
price of gas
I have not been doing much flying lately. I think the plane has about
3700 hours total time, it had something like 2600 hrs when I bought it.
I had a couple of guys that rented it quite a bit until I got concerned
about liability.
----- Original Message -----
From: dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 26 Years
Do I understand that you have put 700 hours on your commander in 26
years?? I have had a 500S for 3 years and have 772 hours on it. My
wife says I fly too much.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:09 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it and yes I
have had some problems. The gear handle broke off in my hand with the
gear up but I managed to fish around enough to get the gear down.
I had 4 hydraulic failures before we found the real problem. Then on
takeoff I blew one of the hydraulic hoses,that we had replaced. The
stand pipe saved the day and did not have any problems with any of them
although I was concerned that I would lose all the fluid as I did not
know where the leak was.
I had the tail slam down because of snow on the elevator, here in
Denton, Texas, where we don't get much snow at all. It was parked out
side waiting on an inspection, needless to say I now have a tail stand.
I rented the plane out when I first got it and had a customer take
it to OKC where a storm whip the tail so hard that it popped the
internal gust lock loose, that is if he had it installed, and broke the
bell crank. I now have an external gust lock and highly recommend every
AeroCommander owner have one, if you cannot buy one they are easy to
make.
I had a prop AD done on it and of course they said I needed a prop
blade changed. I went through three spinner back plates and three
repaired back plates before I could get it back in to get it checked.
Well guess what, the blade was too long, out of balance, and out of
pitch. After going round and round with them I finally got a new back
plate and spinner out of them, but needless to say, I won't be going
back to that shop. One of the back plate cracks was 50 miles of shore
that could have gotten interesting if the spinner had broken loose.
The next thing was the feathering stop cracked. I think I finally
have every thing fixed.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
From: Don Girod
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
Jim;
How many hours have you added on the meter in 26 years? And any
emergencies? Hope not.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 26 Years
Today is our 26th anniversary, that is my Commander and I, sure
have enjoyed it, paid $35000 for and that was probably too much.
Jim Addington
N444BD
500A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 3/31/2007 8:54 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com - The Commander-List Email Forum
- --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -
NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2161 (20070401) Information __________
--> http://forums.matronics.com
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
Airborne is airworthy!
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
That is what mine is like too, it's just part of the family. It is that time
of the year for mine so it is down right now but don't know of any thing
wrong with it, it flew in it ought to fly out, right.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Girod <mailto:DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim <mailto:jtaddington(at)charter.net> Addington
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 26 Years
I haven't gotten to put but a little over 700 hrs on it
Jim;
My Commander is a little bit like Linus's blanket, I just enjoy having it
around and KNOWING anytime I want, I can go get a God's eye view.
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
560WM is for sale
AB
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
How much are you asking for it? Can you send me a spec sheet.
Thanks
Bill Leff
937-369-3334
Please respond to BillLeff(at)aol.com
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "captseth" <capt_seth(at)yahoo.com> |
Someone got a smokin' deal on a nice 680E a couple of weeks ago. I was going to
go for it but work intervened. De-ice, radar, king digital, nice interior, just
needed paint and annual (plus whatever discrepencies).
Wonder who the lucky bidder was.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105656#105656
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
HAPPY EASTER TO ALL. Remember that Easter has nothing to do with Easter
Bunnies or eggs. It is to celebrate the birth of our risen Savior!! Praise God.
Happy Easter. jb
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HAPPY EASTER |
and Amen!
in Him
bobf
N500GW
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> HAPPY EASTER TO ALL. Remember that Easter has nothing to do with
> Easter Bunnies or eggs. It is to celebrate the birth of our risen
> Savior!! Praise God. Happy Easter. jb
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See what's free at AOL.com
> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HAPPY EASTER |
and Amen!
in Him
bobf
N500GW
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com wrote:
> HAPPY EASTER TO ALL. Remember that Easter has nothing to do with
> Easter Bunnies or eggs. It is to celebrate the birth of our risen
> Savior!! Praise God. Happy Easter. jb
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See what's free at AOL.com
> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: US Marshall's N4278S |
680E SN 813-60 is still listed as owned by US Dept of Justice.
This aircraft was up for sale several years ago. The owner said he
had it for 13 years.
It is a good deal who ever has it.
Tylor Hall
On Apr 8, 2007, at 9:10 AM, captseth wrote:
>
> Someone got a smokin' deal on a nice 680E a couple of weeks ago. I
> was going to go for it but work intervened. De-ice, radar, king
> digital, nice interior, just needed paint and annual (plus whatever
> discrepencies).
>
> Wonder who the lucky bidder was.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105656#105656
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: US Marshall's N4278S |
| From: | "captseth" <capt_seth(at)yahoo.com> |
I wonder if the FED decided to keep it? The auction was a month ago and no registration
yet. Hmmm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105759#105759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: US Marshall's N4278S |
Aero Mod Service of Midland, TX sells the gov repo.
http://www.aeromodservices.com/
They may tell you who bought it. Parts houses buy them for parts.
Harry Merritt has 3-680's for sale. I was just down in Florida and
saw two of them. One is in OK.
Not bad looking. They are project aircraft that would be flyable.
I can send you photos of them.
Tylor Hall
On Apr 8, 2007, at 5:30 PM, captseth wrote:
>
> I wonder if the FED decided to keep it? The auction was a month ago
> and no registration yet. Hmmm
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105759#105759
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running LOP? |
I'm looking at a Twin Bonanza Excalibur equipped with GSIO-540s. I'd love to hear
from those who have actually flown behind these engines for comments on actually
reliability, durability, operating proceedures, and the ability to run
lean of peak.
Regards,
Philip Guziec
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
LOP?
Pg, the excalibur conversion was actually the IO-720 s mounted on the
T-bone. mason
>From: Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com, commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs,
>running LOP?
>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 07:12:54 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
>I'm looking at a Twin Bonanza Excalibur equipped with GSIO-540s. I'd love
>to hear from those who have actually flown behind these engines for
>comments on actually reliability, durability, operating proceedures, and
>the ability to run lean of peak.
>
>Regards,
>Philip Guziec
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Hydraulic pump problems |
Well, it happend on the last trip. The best thing about these airplanes
is they have great systems. My guess is that one of the hydraulic pumps
failed in the recent past when a leak occured. The other one failed
after a 3.5 hour flight from Arkansas to Hooks airport... A small crack
occured at the firewall hardline fitting, and started leaking sometime
into the flight... By the time the guys noticed something was wrong,
they were about 100 miles out, and the gear was coming down on its own.
Pressure was fluctuating from 500 to 700 (accumulator pressure only)
which will not allow for gear retraction... Anyways, to make a long
story short... The airplane (500-A colemill conversion) has PESCO pumps
p/n 1P349L, which came on the plane. PESCO is out of business... Just
wondered if anyone out there has a used servicable or yellow tagged pump
in stock you want to sell... OR is there a replacement manufactured
pump available, and what is it ??? Just throwing this out to all the
folks out there who are in the know... THANKS AS ALWAYS!!!!!
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Hydraulic pump problems |
do, there are two facilities in tulsa to overhaul the pump. mason
>From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic pump problems
>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 10:52:48 -0500
>
>Well, it happend on the last trip. The best thing about these airplanes is
>they have great systems. My guess is that one of the hydraulic pumps failed
>in the recent past when a leak occured. The other one failed after a 3.5
>hour flight from Arkansas to Hooks airport... A small crack occured at the
>firewall hardline fitting, and started leaking sometime into the flight...
>By the time the guys noticed something was wrong, they were about 100 miles
>out, and the gear was coming down on its own. Pressure was fluctuating from
>500 to 700 (accumulator pressure only) which will not allow for gear
>retraction... Anyways, to make a long story short... The airplane (500-A
>colemill conversion) has PESCO pumps p/n 1P349L, which came on the plane.
>PESCO is out of business... Just wondered if anyone out there has a used
>servicable or yellow tagged pump in stock you want to sell... OR is there
>a replacement manufactured pump available, and what is it ??? Just throwing
>this out to all the folks out there who are in the know... THANKS AS
>ALWAYS!!!!!
>
>
>David Owens
>Aerial Viewpoint
>N14AV
>AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
LOP?
I had a TBone for several years, is the next best thing to a Commander.
Andy
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
>Pg, the excalibur conversion was actually the IO-720 s mounted on the
>T-bone. mason
Mason and commander list,
There were two types of excalibur conversions, the IO 720 and the GSIO-540. There
were also GO 480 versions and GSIO 480 versions.
I've heard all kinds of scary stories from people who have not actually owned and
flown the GIO series of Lycomings, and then I've heard from a few folks who
have flown behind them who really like them for smoothness, quietness, etc.
I'd be quite comfortable owning and flying a GO 480, but I'd be really interested
in talking to someone who as actually flown behind GSIO 480s or GSIO 540s
about their experiences and any idiosyncrasies related to the supercharged versions.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Phil,
Our list has many members who are blessed with thousands of hours 'behind'
GO480 and GSO480 engines.
Over the years our list has hosted great discussion on the pros and cons of
these and other Commander engines...particularly relating to 'caring' for
geared engines.
Maybe it is time to re-visit those days with the 'promise' that no mention
of sumps occur!
Cheers
Russell
On 10/4/07 11:23 PM, "Philip Guziec" wrote:
>
>> Pg, the excalibur conversion was actually the IO-720 s mounted on the
>> T-bone. mason
>
> Mason and commander list,
>
> There were two types of excalibur conversions, the IO 720 and the GSIO-540.
> There were also GO 480 versions and GSIO 480 versions.
>
> I've heard all kinds of scary stories from people who have not actually owned
> and flown the GIO series of Lycomings, and then I've heard from a few folks
> who have flown behind them who really like them for smoothness, quietness,
> etc. I'd be quite comfortable owning and flying a GO 480, but I'd be really
> interested in talking to someone who as actually flown behind GSIO 480s or
> GSIO 540s about their experiences and any idiosyncrasies related to the
> supercharged versions.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
I don `t profess to be an expert because I have only flown my 680 with the
GSO-480-B1-A6 (340 hp engines ) fifty hours. I can tell you that it is one
powerful machine! The times on my engines are 350 hours and 10 hours on the
props. When I fire the engines up I can hear a little clanging going on due to
the props but after it is warmed up and about 1200 RPM the props are loaded and
you don `t hear anything from the gears. My oil consumption is running about
a third to half quart an hour. It seems to be coming from the breather tube
and not burning any at all. I think maybe I `ll try an air/oil seperator. I
have had nothing but a good experience with the engines thus far. I also have
an Aztec with IO-540 (250 HP) and I have flown that airplane to TBO 2,000 hrs.
and have only changed out two cylinders. It is a GREAT engine with no bad
habbits! Hope this helps. Gil Walker
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
In a message dated 4/10/2007 6:57:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
philipguziec(at)yahoo.com writes:
GO 480, but I'd be really interested in talking to someone who as actually
flown behind GSIO 480s
I have flown a bit over 500hrs on my 680E Commander (GSO 480B1A6) I have
also ferries a couple of 680s in various states of disrepair and neglect. Even
engines that have been sitting idel for many years come back to life and
perfrome great. Here is the skinny. The GSO 480 is a GERAT ENGINE!!! they almos
alwas make or exceed TBO (1400hr). They are very smooth and very strong
running. I drive a 1967 SS 427 El Camino (among other old muscle cars) and the
Commander will out run most of them on T.O. The engines have pressure carbs
(think throttle body F.I.) These are very depedibal and relatively inexpensive
to
overhaul.
Now for the bad news. The geared, supercharged engines can be hurt by
miss handling them. If properly flown, no problem, fly them like their direct
drive brethren, big problem. Learning to properly fly them is no real issue,
but does require a bit of training and discipline.
I have no real experience with the IGSO 540 but have heard little good
about them. I am aware of several premature failures and they seem to seldom
make their TBO (only 1200hr). jb
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
>I don `t profess to be an expert because I have only flown my 680 with the
>GSO-480-B1-A6 (340 hp engines ) fifty hours. I can tell you that it is one
>powerful machine! The times on my engines are 350 hours and 10 hours on the
>props. When I fire the engines up I can hear a little clanging going on due to
>the props but after it is warmed up and about 1200 RPM the props are loaded and
>you don `t hear anything from the gears. My oil consumption is running about
>a third to half quart an hour. It seems to be coming from the breather tube
>and not burning any at all. I think maybe I `ll try an air/oil seperator. I
>have had nothing but a good experience with the engines thus far.
Thanks Gil. I figured 380 hp a side would make for one stellar and quiet performer.
What are our operating procedures? Do you leave the mixture levers forward
and let the altitude compensation system set the mixture? What power settings
are you running in cruise and what's the fuel burn like? I have a few hours
on an Aztec F. How do you operate your 680 differently than the Aztec with
regards to the geared engines?
>I have flown a bit over 500hrs on my 680E Commander (GSO 480B1A6) I have
>also ferries a couple of 680s in various states of disrepair and neglect. Even
>engines that have been sitting idel for many years come back to life and
>perfrome great. Here is the skinny. The GSO 480 is a GERAT ENGINE!!! they
almos
>alwas make or exceed TBO (1400hr). They are very smooth and very strong
>running. I drive a 1967 SS 427 El Camino (among other old muscle cars) and the
>Commander will out run most of them on T.O. The engines have pressure carbs
>(think throttle body F.I.) These are very depedibal and relatively inexpensive
>to overhaul.
Good to know, jb. What's the gross on the 680E? How it perform on one engine?
One of the big reasons I'm considering an excalibur Tbone is the performance
if I lose one on takeoff with four people and bags in the airplane.
>Now for the bad news. The geared, supercharged engines can be hurt by
>miss handling them. If properly flown, no problem, fly them like their direct
>drive brethren, big problem. Learning to properly fly them is no real issue,
>but does require a bit of training and discipline.
How do they need to be handled differently than the unsupercharged geared engines,
and what kind of damage comes about from mishandling?
>I have no real experience with the IGSO 540 but have heard little good
>about them. I am aware of several premature failures and they seem to seldom
>make their TBO (only 1200hr).
Can you share the specifics of the failures you've heard about? Are they gearbox,
blown jugs, broken cranks? In flight or found during annual?
Another question I have is regarding the operation of the geared engines. I understand
that you want to keep the gears from chattering near idle power, but
do you always need to keep them positively loaded? Can you make sure the props
are producing some power or producing some braking, but make sure you don't
leave the power near zero thrust? How do you handle reduction to idle on landing?
Thanks for all the help.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
The IGSO540B1A (or C or B) engines are pretty much of a strange animal. I
have a little more that 800 hours of flight in a 680F(p). The main
problems are:
1. Simmonds fuel injection system. $ 4,000.00 each to overhaul, and
the mixture lever requires constant attention on the ground as the pumps use
oil pressure to opeate the internal "computer". Only one company in the
world can legally overhaul them, and as soon as you get them back take your
plane to Morris and get him to "fine tune" them.
2. The ease with which they can be overboosted (even on the ground).
3. If you have an IGSO540B1A it should be converted to an IGSO540B1C
(get rid of the mags that use 12 separate coils, and go to normal mags.)
This will save you a lot of weight, money, and headaches.
4. They are the shortest TBO of any engine that Lycoming ever built,
and the most expensive to overhaul (between $ 42,000.00 and $ 67,000.00 each
a couple of years ago). Conventional wisdom rumors are that a top overhaul
will be required on each engine at about 600 hours. Figure about $ 125.00
to $ 150.00 per hour for the engines, and you will be OK.
5. Don't ever run one out of fuel while in flight. Restarting takes a
long time, and the re-fire is so jerkey, that you stand a good chance of
serious injury to the gear box.
6. Taxi can be very hard on the brakes (double so with the air
conditioner on) because you want to keep the engine RPM above 1,200 at all
times (1,500 is better) If you let someone else start the engines (mechanic
for instance) be darn sure that they know not to let the engines idle below
1,200 RPM.
7. At altitude run between 75F and 100F lean of peak at about 65%
power.
The good news is that they make good power even at a high altitude hot
airfield.
Ya gotta love 'em to run 'em
Moe Mills
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs,
running
In a message dated 4/10/2007 6:57:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
philipguziec(at)yahoo.com writes:
GO 480, but I'd be really interested in talking to someone who as actually
flown behind GSIO 480s
I have flown a bit over 500hrs on my 680E Commander (GSO 480B1A6) I have
also ferries a couple of 680s in various states of disrepair and neglect.
Even engines that have been sitting idel for many years come back to life
and perfrome great. Here is the skinny. The GSO 480 is a GERAT ENGINE!!!
they almos alwas make or exceed TBO (1400hr). They are very smooth and very
strong running. I drive a 1967 SS 427 El Camino (among other old muscle
cars) and the Commander will out run most of them on T.O. The engines have
pressure carbs (think throttle body F.I.) These are very depedibal and
relatively inexpensive to overhaul.
Now for the bad news. The geared, supercharged engines can be hurt by
miss handling them. If properly flown, no problem, fly them like their
direct drive brethren, big problem. Learning to properly fly them is no
real issue, but does require a bit of training and discipline.
I have no real experience with the IGSO 540 but have heard little good
about them. I am aware of several premature failures and they seem to
seldom make their TBO (only 1200hr). jb
_____
See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
Phil, I don`t touch the mixture at all. I let the compensators do their
work. I run the engines @ 65% .2600RPM and 30" burns about 17 Gal an hour per
engine (34 Gal.) if you want to go faster 40" and 3,000RPM will burn around 40
Gallons an hour both engines. I try to be as easy on the props as I can and do
not move them abruptly. I also plan my descent so that the engines and props
are always pulling and then ease the props back once I am leveled off. As I
said I have only flown the 680 fifty hours and am always trying to learn from
you guys with experience. Thanks Gil
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
Thanks for all the info Moe.
>1. Simmonds fuel injection system. $ 4,000.00 each to overhaul, and
>the mixture lever requires constant attention on the ground as the pumps use
>oil pressure to opeate the internal "computer". Only one company in the
>world can legally overhaul them, and as soon as you get them back take your
>plane to Morris and get him to "fine tune" them.
I'll check if this plane has Simmonds injection or Bendix.
>2. The ease with which they can be overboosted (even on the ground).
Do they produce more than rated manifold pressure at sea level with full throttle?
How are they typically overboosted?
>4. They are the shortest TBO of any engine that Lycoming ever built,
>and the most expensive to overhaul (between $ 42,000.00 and $ 67,000.00 each
>a couple of years ago). Conventional wisdom rumors are that a top overhaul
>will be required on each engine at about 600 hours. Figure about $ 125.00
>to $ 150.00 per hour for the engines, and you will be OK.
That's what I was figuring. What is the TBO? 1200?
>5. Don't ever run one out of fuel while in flight. Restarting takes a
>long time, and the re-fire is so jerkey, that you stand a good chance of
>serious injury to the gear box.
Also good to know.
>7. At altitude run between 75F and 100F lean of peak at about 65%
>power.
What's the fuel flow at that setting? What's the MP/RPM that gives 65%?
>The good news is that they make good power even at a high altitude hot
>airfield.
And quiet, I hear.
>Ya gotta love 'em to run 'em
I'm getting that sense. There is one heck of a coolness factor, though.
Thanks for all the help, Moe.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip
Guziec
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs,
running
Thanks for all the info Moe.
>1. Simmonds fuel injection system. $ 4,000.00 each to overhaul, and
>the mixture lever requires constant attention on the ground as the pumps
use
>oil pressure to opeate the internal "computer". Only one company in the
>world can legally overhaul them, and as soon as you get them back take your
>plane to Morris and get him to "fine tune" them.
I'll check if this plane has Simmonds injection or Bendix.
>2. The ease with which they can be overboosted (even on the ground).
Do they produce more than rated manifold pressure at sea level with full
throttle? How are they typically over boosted? Yes they will produce WAY
over 29.92 on the ground. The first day I owned my plane I over boosted
both engines big time on the ground, before my first lesson, only because on
my prior twin it was OK to firewall the throttles. There is no waste gate
on the superchargers except for your right hand.
>4. They are the shortest TBO of any engine that Lycoming ever built,
>and the most expensive to overhaul (between $ 42,000.00 and $ 67,000.00
each
>a couple of years ago). Conventional wisdom rumors are that a top overhaul
>will be required on each engine at about 600 hours. Figure about $ 125.00
>to $ 150.00 per hour for the engines, and you will be OK.
That's what I was figuring. What is the TBO? 1200? Yes
>5. Don't ever run one out of fuel while in flight. Restarting takes a
>long time, and the re-fire is so jerkey, that you stand a good chance of
>serious injury to the gear box.
Also good to know.
>7. At altitude run between 75F and 100F lean of peak at about 65%
>power.
What's the fuel flow at that setting? About 42 gals (21 gals per side). Per
hour total. What's the MP/RPM that gives 65%? At about 17,000 feet, all the
manifold pressure that you can get (about 26lbs) and about 2,600 RPM. Your
no wind ground speed in a 680F(p) will be about 180 Knots. If you want to
go fast, go 100 rich of peak, all of the pressure you can get and 2,700 RPM.
Engines will run hot, and you will burn about 52 gallons per hour.
>The good news is that they make good power even at a high altitude hot
>airfield.
And quiet, I hear.
>Ya gotta love 'em to run 'em
I'm getting that sense. There is one heck of a coolness factor, though.
The coolness factor can't be beat. Not as ostentatious as my next door
neighbors seven series BMW (I usually drive well used Chevrolets). Aircraft
are an emotional issue, not one of practicality.
Thanks for all the help, Moe. You are welcome any time.
Moe
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 04/11/07 |
Moe,
A bit more info to see if it sparks any thoughts. This plane has A1A and AGA suffix
engines, with Bendix fuel injection and mags. 400 hours on the engines.
Is the conventional wisdom on top overhauls based on overboost, overheat, valve
problems of some sort, rings, or what? I assume the 600 hour overhauls means
it's unwise to run them past TBO?
You don't happen to make pistons for these engines, do you?;-)
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com |
>From TCFG member Pat Augustine:
I will be attending Sun-N-Fun for most of the event this year.
I was hoping to get together with other TCFG members for a dinner
while there. If I can get the names and contact info of attending members
I will organize a dinner. Thank you in advance, Pat Augustine
C (704) 906-2058
H (704) 442-8968
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
Had an odd failure the other day I thought I would share, mainly because it
was a failure mode I hadn't ever thought of and if I had I might have
recognized it (maybe not). It might help another 500 series driver someday.
We replaced a couple bladders (and found out from filling the airplane twice
parked two different directions it holds 150 gallons, not 156). Also
recalibrated the gauge with 20 gallons aboard. (twice). I'd like to think
I've got fuel management pretty well figured for this aircraft, but for our
work there is sometimes a lot of climbs and descents, but overall it's never
varied much from predicted.
First trip out from replacing bladders was about 4.5 hours. We were at 7500'
or so W.O.T. & L.O.P. Rougher than hell as usual dropping into 'happy
valley' here back home. Pulling throttles back as we descend. Gas (pumps)
Mixture (up) Gear (down) props still to go and getting close to turning
about a four mile final (there's a mountain in the way of a shorter final).
Something ain't right. Feels an awful lot like fuel starvation. Now we're in
the real serious bumps down low, and of course the gauge is bouncing off
empty and you figure maybe you blew your math, and the gauge was wrong all
along. Definately feels like we're loosing an engine but at this point
getting knocked around like we were and in the descent for landing, its hard
to tell yet exactly which one. Beans, we loose one engine from fuel
starvation, that means we're about to lose another and this is a piss poor
place to be loosing it, just a big tree covered hill between me and the
airport. Quit descending, and went for some height, waiting to stow one one
if it asked to be and trying to tell just what was going on. With a couple
inches of throttle travel the right engine has no juice, but we're going to
make the airport long as the left one keeps running which we're not at all
sure of.
Long story short, the past two rebuilds on the fuel servo from two different
shops we believe to be not very good. I had exactly the fuel I thought I
had. Turns out (if we understand it right) there was mechanical wear
internally to the servo that stuck wide open throttle fuel levels at near
idle throttle settings. So when power came back on the lever, the fuel
remained full tilt and essentially flooded the engine to the point of
killing it.
Couple things:
I wasn't ever in the trouble I thought I might be.
Never needed to firewall it, raise the gear, flaps. If I did, there was a
good chance the right engine would have cleared itself after a bit and
recovered to develop full power in short order.
A lot of my focus has been identifying failed engines on departure, in a
climb. Its a different critter to identify a failed engine in a descent.
Even harder if it's only partly failing going downhill in moderate
turbulence.
This engine was probably controllable by using the mixture control, but it
would be asking a lot to have made that quick a diagnostic and remedy on the
fly during final.
My last trip was 5 hours and I roughly figured I'd put 120 gallons back into
the thing to fill it. It was good to see it took 118.
I hope this posting was appropriate. I'm always interested in failure modes,
and perhaps one or two others might take something interesting from the
above and file it away.....
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
Pat, I hope to be at sun-n-Fun . I will be staying in Sarasota with friends
and driving up. But would be glad to attend. Thanks Gil Walker N-6819-Q.
615-373-5703
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
Very interesting Steve. THANKS.
R. Mansfield
N91ES
---- Steve wrote:
>
> Had an odd failure the other day I thought I would share, mainly because it
> was a failure mode I hadn't ever thought of and if I had I might have
> recognized it (maybe not). It might help another 500 series driver someday.
>
> We replaced a couple bladders (and found out from filling the airplane twice
> parked two different directions it holds 150 gallons, not 156). Also
> recalibrated the gauge with 20 gallons aboard. (twice). I'd like to think
> I've got fuel management pretty well figured for this aircraft, but for our
> work there is sometimes a lot of climbs and descents, but overall it's never
> varied much from predicted.
>
> First trip out from replacing bladders was about 4.5 hours. We were at 7500'
> or so W.O.T. & L.O.P. Rougher than hell as usual dropping into 'happy
> valley' here back home. Pulling throttles back as we descend. Gas (pumps)
> Mixture (up) Gear (down) props still to go and getting close to turning
> about a four mile final (there's a mountain in the way of a shorter final).
> Something ain't right. Feels an awful lot like fuel starvation. Now we're in
> the real serious bumps down low, and of course the gauge is bouncing off
> empty and you figure maybe you blew your math, and the gauge was wrong all
> along. Definately feels like we're loosing an engine but at this point
> getting knocked around like we were and in the descent for landing, its hard
> to tell yet exactly which one. Beans, we loose one engine from fuel
> starvation, that means we're about to lose another and this is a piss poor
> place to be loosing it, just a big tree covered hill between me and the
> airport. Quit descending, and went for some height, waiting to stow one one
> if it asked to be and trying to tell just what was going on. With a couple
> inches of throttle travel the right engine has no juice, but we're going to
> make the airport long as the left one keeps running which we're not at all
> sure of.
>
> Long story short, the past two rebuilds on the fuel servo from two different
> shops we believe to be not very good. I had exactly the fuel I thought I
> had. Turns out (if we understand it right) there was mechanical wear
> internally to the servo that stuck wide open throttle fuel levels at near
> idle throttle settings. So when power came back on the lever, the fuel
> remained full tilt and essentially flooded the engine to the point of
> killing it.
>
> Couple things:
>
> I wasn't ever in the trouble I thought I might be.
>
> Never needed to firewall it, raise the gear, flaps. If I did, there was a
> good chance the right engine would have cleared itself after a bit and
> recovered to develop full power in short order.
>
> A lot of my focus has been identifying failed engines on departure, in a
> climb. Its a different critter to identify a failed engine in a descent.
> Even harder if it's only partly failing going downhill in moderate
> turbulence.
>
> This engine was probably controllable by using the mixture control, but it
> would be asking a lot to have made that quick a diagnostic and remedy on the
> fly during final.
>
>
>
> My last trip was 5 hours and I roughly figured I'd put 120 gallons back into
> the thing to fill it. It was good to see it took 118.
>
> I hope this posting was appropriate. I'm always interested in failure modes,
> and perhaps one or two others might take something interesting from the
> above and file it away.....
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
sc, tnx, this shud be a help to all. mason
>From: <hcourier(at)cox.net>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Servo Failure
>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:45:54 -0400
>
>
>Very interesting Steve. THANKS.
>
>R. Mansfield
>N91ES
>
>
>---- Steve wrote:
> >
> > Had an odd failure the other day I thought I would share, mainly because
>it
> > was a failure mode I hadn't ever thought of and if I had I might have
> > recognized it (maybe not). It might help another 500 series driver
>someday.
> >
> > We replaced a couple bladders (and found out from filling the airplane
>twice
> > parked two different directions it holds 150 gallons, not 156). Also
> > recalibrated the gauge with 20 gallons aboard. (twice). I'd like to
>think
> > I've got fuel management pretty well figured for this aircraft, but for
>our
> > work there is sometimes a lot of climbs and descents, but overall it's
>never
> > varied much from predicted.
> >
> > First trip out from replacing bladders was about 4.5 hours. We were at
>7500'
> > or so W.O.T. & L.O.P. Rougher than hell as usual dropping into 'happy
> > valley' here back home. Pulling throttles back as we descend. Gas
>(pumps)
> > Mixture (up) Gear (down) props still to go and getting close to turning
> > about a four mile final (there's a mountain in the way of a shorter
>final).
> > Something ain't right. Feels an awful lot like fuel starvation. Now
>we're in
> > the real serious bumps down low, and of course the gauge is bouncing off
> > empty and you figure maybe you blew your math, and the gauge was wrong
>all
> > along. Definately feels like we're loosing an engine but at this point
> > getting knocked around like we were and in the descent for landing, its
>hard
> > to tell yet exactly which one. Beans, we loose one engine from fuel
> > starvation, that means we're about to lose another and this is a piss
>poor
> > place to be loosing it, just a big tree covered hill between me and the
> > airport. Quit descending, and went for some height, waiting to stow one
>one
> > if it asked to be and trying to tell just what was going on. With a
>couple
> > inches of throttle travel the right engine has no juice, but we're going
>to
> > make the airport long as the left one keeps running which we're not at
>all
> > sure of.
> >
> > Long story short, the past two rebuilds on the fuel servo from two
>different
> > shops we believe to be not very good. I had exactly the fuel I thought I
> > had. Turns out (if we understand it right) there was mechanical wear
> > internally to the servo that stuck wide open throttle fuel levels at
>near
> > idle throttle settings. So when power came back on the lever, the fuel
> > remained full tilt and essentially flooded the engine to the point of
> > killing it.
> >
> > Couple things:
> >
> > I wasn't ever in the trouble I thought I might be.
> >
> > Never needed to firewall it, raise the gear, flaps. If I did, there was
>a
> > good chance the right engine would have cleared itself after a bit and
> > recovered to develop full power in short order.
> >
> > A lot of my focus has been identifying failed engines on departure, in a
> > climb. Its a different critter to identify a failed engine in a descent.
> > Even harder if it's only partly failing going downhill in moderate
> > turbulence.
> >
> > This engine was probably controllable by using the mixture control, but
>it
> > would be asking a lot to have made that quick a diagnostic and remedy on
>the
> > fly during final.
> >
> >
> >
> > My last trip was 5 hours and I roughly figured I'd put 120 gallons back
>into
> > the thing to fill it. It was good to see it took 118.
> >
> > I hope this posting was appropriate. I'm always interested in failure
>modes,
> > and perhaps one or two others might take something interesting from the
> > above and file it away.....
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Kirkwood" <bkirkwoo(at)elp.rr.com> |
Did I hear someone say that overhauling pressure carburetors was
relatively inexpensive? The last quote I got was $2500!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harry Merritt" <avtec2(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure Carbs |
ps5 2,500.00 ps7 4000.00
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Kirkwood
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Pressure Carbs
Did I hear someone say that overhauling pressure carburetors was
relatively inexpensive? The last quote I got was $2500!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <steveg(at)nternet.com> |
Bill,
I would have to get to my other laptop but I have a PS5 that for sale that
needs rebuilding and the quote I got a few months ago was at best guess
about 1800 from a reputable house. I will check it tomorrow and let you
know.
Steve G.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harry
Merritt
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pressure Carbs
ps5 2,500.00 ps7 4000.00
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Kirkwood <mailto:bkirkwoo(at)elp.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Pressure Carbs
Did I hear someone say that overhauling pressure carburetors was relatively
inexpensive? The last quote I got was $2500!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
Steve,
Count yourself fortunate that you were safe the whole time. I'm sure I would
NOT have recognized that failure mode at all...and it would be extra tough
to diagnose in bumps, on a descent, when you think you might have to land
short.
One thing I do differently in my 500B is to NOT use the fuel boost pumps on
approach, even though I was initially trained to. I've heard a couple of
stories of not-great fuel systems where the pumps allowed an engine to flood
& die when the power was pulled back. Have you checked to see if the pumps
have any effect on the engines under low power settings? Just my $0.02 and
probably not related to your servo issue in any way.
Cheers & glad you got down safely,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 6:58 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Servo Failure
>
> Had an odd failure the other day I thought I would share, mainly because
> it was a failure mode I hadn't ever thought of and if I had I might have
> recognized it (maybe not). It might help another 500 series driver
> someday.
>
> We replaced a couple bladders (and found out from filling the airplane
> twice parked two different directions it holds 150 gallons, not 156). Also
> recalibrated the gauge with 20 gallons aboard. (twice). I'd like to think
> I've got fuel management pretty well figured for this aircraft, but for
> our work there is sometimes a lot of climbs and descents, but overall it's
> never varied much from predicted.
>
> First trip out from replacing bladders was about 4.5 hours. We were at
> 7500' or so W.O.T. & L.O.P. Rougher than hell as usual dropping into
> 'happy valley' here back home. Pulling throttles back as we descend. Gas
> (pumps) Mixture (up) Gear (down) props still to go and getting close to
> turning about a four mile final (there's a mountain in the way of a
> shorter final). Something ain't right. Feels an awful lot like fuel
> starvation. Now we're in the real serious bumps down low, and of course
> the gauge is bouncing off empty and you figure maybe you blew your math,
> and the gauge was wrong all along. Definately feels like we're loosing an
> engine but at this point getting knocked around like we were and in the
> descent for landing, its hard to tell yet exactly which one. Beans, we
> loose one engine from fuel starvation, that means we're about to lose
> another and this is a piss poor place to be loosing it, just a big tree
> covered hill between me and the airport. Quit descending, and went for
> some height, waiting to stow one one if it asked to be and trying to tell
> just what was going on. With a couple inches of throttle travel the right
> engine has no juice, but we're going to make the airport long as the left
> one keeps running which we're not at all sure of.
>
> Long story short, the past two rebuilds on the fuel servo from two
> different shops we believe to be not very good. I had exactly the fuel I
> thought I had. Turns out (if we understand it right) there was mechanical
> wear internally to the servo that stuck wide open throttle fuel levels at
> near idle throttle settings. So when power came back on the lever, the
> fuel remained full tilt and essentially flooded the engine to the point of
> killing it.
>
> Couple things:
>
> I wasn't ever in the trouble I thought I might be.
>
> Never needed to firewall it, raise the gear, flaps. If I did, there was a
> good chance the right engine would have cleared itself after a bit and
> recovered to develop full power in short order.
>
> A lot of my focus has been identifying failed engines on departure, in a
> climb. Its a different critter to identify a failed engine in a descent.
> Even harder if it's only partly failing going downhill in moderate
> turbulence.
>
> This engine was probably controllable by using the mixture control, but it
> would be asking a lot to have made that quick a diagnostic and remedy on
> the fly during final.
>
>
> My last trip was 5 hours and I roughly figured I'd put 120 gallons back
> into the thing to fill it. It was good to see it took 118.
>
> I hope this posting was appropriate. I'm always interested in failure
> modes, and perhaps one or two others might take something interesting from
> the above and file it away.....
>
> Steve
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
John-
Interesting you mention not operating the fuel pumps on descent. I've heard
mixed messages as well.
Would be fascinated to hear the opinion of "more experienced" commander
pilots.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 13:58
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Servo Failure
-->
Steve,
Count yourself fortunate that you were safe the whole time. I'm sure I would
NOT have recognized that failure mode at all...and it would be extra tough
to diagnose in bumps, on a descent, when you think you might have to land
short.
One thing I do differently in my 500B is to NOT use the fuel boost pumps on
approach, even though I was initially trained to. I've heard a couple of
stories of not-great fuel systems where the pumps allowed an engine to flood
& die when the power was pulled back. Have you checked to see if the pumps
have any effect on the engines under low power settings? Just my $0.02 and
probably not related to your servo issue in any way.
Cheers & glad you got down safely,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 6:58 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Servo Failure
>
> Had an odd failure the other day I thought I would share, mainly because
> it was a failure mode I hadn't ever thought of and if I had I might have
> recognized it (maybe not). It might help another 500 series driver
> someday.
>
> We replaced a couple bladders (and found out from filling the airplane
> twice parked two different directions it holds 150 gallons, not 156). Also
> recalibrated the gauge with 20 gallons aboard. (twice). I'd like to think
> I've got fuel management pretty well figured for this aircraft, but for
> our work there is sometimes a lot of climbs and descents, but overall it's
> never varied much from predicted.
>
> First trip out from replacing bladders was about 4.5 hours. We were at
> 7500' or so W.O.T. & L.O.P. Rougher than hell as usual dropping into
> 'happy valley' here back home. Pulling throttles back as we descend. Gas
> (pumps) Mixture (up) Gear (down) props still to go and getting close to
> turning about a four mile final (there's a mountain in the way of a
> shorter final). Something ain't right. Feels an awful lot like fuel
> starvation. Now we're in the real serious bumps down low, and of course
> the gauge is bouncing off empty and you figure maybe you blew your math,
> and the gauge was wrong all along. Definately feels like we're loosing an
> engine but at this point getting knocked around like we were and in the
> descent for landing, its hard to tell yet exactly which one. Beans, we
> loose one engine from fuel starvation, that means we're about to lose
> another and this is a piss poor place to be loosing it, just a big tree
> covered hill between me and the airport. Quit descending, and went for
> some height, waiting to stow one one if it asked to be and trying to tell
> just what was going on. With a couple inches of throttle travel the right
> engine has no juice, but we're going to make the airport long as the left
> one keeps running which we're not at all sure of.
>
> Long story short, the past two rebuilds on the fuel servo from two
> different shops we believe to be not very good. I had exactly the fuel I
> thought I had. Turns out (if we understand it right) there was mechanical
> wear internally to the servo that stuck wide open throttle fuel levels at
> near idle throttle settings. So when power came back on the lever, the
> fuel remained full tilt and essentially flooded the engine to the point of
> killing it.
>
> Couple things:
>
> I wasn't ever in the trouble I thought I might be.
>
> Never needed to firewall it, raise the gear, flaps. If I did, there was a
> good chance the right engine would have cleared itself after a bit and
> recovered to develop full power in short order.
>
> A lot of my focus has been identifying failed engines on departure, in a
> climb. Its a different critter to identify a failed engine in a descent.
> Even harder if it's only partly failing going downhill in moderate
> turbulence.
>
> This engine was probably controllable by using the mixture control, but it
> would be asking a lot to have made that quick a diagnostic and remedy on
> the fly during final.
>
>
> My last trip was 5 hours and I roughly figured I'd put 120 gallons back
> into the thing to fill it. It was good to see it took 118.
>
> I hope this posting was appropriate. I'm always interested in failure
> modes, and perhaps one or two others might take something interesting from
> the above and file it away.....
>
> Steve
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
>
__________ NOD32 2187 (20070413) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
I will be going to Sun and Fun, what dates you all planning on?
Andy
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
John, I notice a slight richen-ing of the mixture at idle with the pumps on,
but I am usually agressively leaned on the ground. I learned some time ago
that I liked ground leaning, and if you were going to do it at all, more is
better. Kind of hard to forget you're leaned during a take-off roll if
pushing the handles up results in no noise.
Pumps also go on pre-takeoff, although I'm carrying a little more power than
arrival, but again I've not noticed anything irregular.
Worst case scenario has been a hurried arrival and turn-off a runway, with
pumps left on. I'll notice a lumpier idle than normal and at lower RPM.
Steve Welebny
Col-East, Inc.
Subject: Re: Servo Failure
From: John Vormbaum (john(at)vormbaum.com)
Date: Fri Apr 13 - 1:58 PM
Steve,
Count yourself fortunate that you were safe the whole time. I'm sure I would
NOT have recognized that failure mode at all...and it would be extra tough
to diagnose in bumps, on a descent, when you think you might have to land
short.
One thing I do differently in my 500B is to NOT use the fuel boost pumps on
approach, even though I was initially trained to. I've heard a couple of
stories of not-great fuel systems where the pumps allowed an engine to flood
& die when the power was pulled back. Have you checked to see if the pumps
have any effect on the engines under low power settings? Just my $0.02 and
probably not related to your servo issue in any way.
Cheers & glad you got down safely,
/John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
Yeah, I lean aggressively on the ground too....best thing in the world for
the engines. I also use my boost pumps on takeoff. I have turbos too, so the
pumps go on over 15,500' too. I'm just not a big fan of them on final
approach.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
> John, I notice a slight richen-ing of the mixture at idle with the pumps
> on, but I am usually agressively leaned on the ground. I learned some time
> ago that I liked ground leaning, and if you were going to do it at all,
> more is better. Kind of hard to forget you're leaned during a take-off
> roll if pushing the handles up results in no noise.
>
> Pumps also go on pre-takeoff, although I'm carrying a little more power
> than arrival, but again I've not noticed anything irregular.
>
> Worst case scenario has been a hurried arrival and turn-off a runway, with
> pumps left on. I'll notice a lumpier idle than normal and at lower RPM.
>
> Steve Welebny
> Col-East, Inc.
>
>
> Subject: Re: Servo Failure
> From: John Vormbaum (john(at)vormbaum.com)
> Date: Fri Apr 13 - 1:58 PM
>
> Steve,
>
> Count yourself fortunate that you were safe the whole time. I'm sure I
> would
> NOT have recognized that failure mode at all...and it would be extra tough
> to diagnose in bumps, on a descent, when you think you might have to land
> short.
>
> One thing I do differently in my 500B is to NOT use the fuel boost pumps
> on
> approach, even though I was initially trained to. I've heard a couple of
> stories of not-great fuel systems where the pumps allowed an engine to
> flood
> & die when the power was pulled back. Have you checked to see if the pumps
> have any effect on the engines under low power settings? Just my $0.02 and
> probably not related to your servo issue in any way.
>
> Cheers & glad you got down safely,
>
> /John
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
I'd be interested in other's opinion, but the only difference I can see
between pumps on and pumps off could be a slight rise in pressure to the
servo with the pumps on at idle, or a slight rise in pressure to the servo
if the engine's pumps were set lower than the boost pump pressure at other
RPM.
At idle (no boost pump) I see the lowest fuel pressure of the engine pump.
Add a couple hundred RPM and the pressure kicks up and stays put. Once out
of a dead idle, I'm not sure I notice any difference in performance of the
engine which stands to reason and is backed up by the EGT.
Since the servo is working with a lot of differential pressures, at a dead
idle the boost pump IS enough to enrichen the mixture a bit because the idle
mixture was set based on the lower engine pump only pressure. I'm theorizing
here that the extra boost pump fuel pressure at extreme low idle is throwing
the balance of the servo's idle mixture off, but only a little and only near
dead idle when set off engine pump only.
I suppose the amount of 'extra' pounds of fuel pressure with a boost pump at
idle could be unique to each aircraft, or maybe not at all. I'll have to
play with the thing next time out, but higher than about 1200 RPM or so,
maybe lower, I didn't see any difference boost on or off.
Any of that sound legit?
Steve W
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
> Yeah, I lean aggressively on the ground too....best thing in the world for
> the engines. I also use my boost pumps on takeoff. I have turbos too, so
> the pumps go on over 15,500' too. I'm just not a big fan of them on final
> approach.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
>
>>
>> John, I notice a slight richen-ing of the mixture at idle with the pumps
>> on, but I am usually agressively leaned on the ground. I learned some
>> time ago that I liked ground leaning, and if you were going to do it at
>> all, more is better. Kind of hard to forget you're leaned during a
>> take-off roll if pushing the handles up results in no noise.
>>
>> Pumps also go on pre-takeoff, although I'm carrying a little more power
>> than arrival, but again I've not noticed anything irregular.
>>
>> Worst case scenario has been a hurried arrival and turn-off a runway,
>> with pumps left on. I'll notice a lumpier idle than normal and at lower
>> RPM.
>>
>> Steve Welebny
>> Col-East, Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Servo Failure
>> From: John Vormbaum (john(at)vormbaum.com)
>> Date: Fri Apr 13 - 1:58 PM
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Count yourself fortunate that you were safe the whole time. I'm sure I
>> would
>> NOT have recognized that failure mode at all...and it would be extra
>> tough
>> to diagnose in bumps, on a descent, when you think you might have to land
>> short.
>>
>> One thing I do differently in my 500B is to NOT use the fuel boost pumps
>> on
>> approach, even though I was initially trained to. I've heard a couple of
>> stories of not-great fuel systems where the pumps allowed an engine to
>> flood
>> & die when the power was pulled back. Have you checked to see if the
>> pumps
>> have any effect on the engines under low power settings? Just my $0.02
>> and
>> probably not related to your servo issue in any way.
>>
>> Cheers & glad you got down safely,
>>
>> /John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
Steven-
In THEORY (which is an economist's way of saying, "this is someone elses
idea but if it works you should give me credit for it") the fuel boost pumps
on our commanders are there to provide positive fuel flow from the tank to
the Engine Driven Pump. The EDP should meter fuel upline from there based
on it's demand calibration- but the main fuel pumps are primarily to ensure
you have positive fuel pressure from the tank source to the engine.
So in THEORY what you describe is true... You should see no difference in
performance with the fuel pump LOW or OFF- because the tank based pump isn't
the one providing the performance calibration... Set to HIGH I'm guessing
you will see a performance change because it appears that the HIGH setting
is strictly an override mode so it likely invalidates the normal metering
process (dislaimer: I'm outside my knowledge band in HIGH mode...but this
performance change is what I see when setting my pumps to HIGH when testing
them pre-flight.)
Just my opinion...
Robert S. Randazzo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 19:23
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
I'd be interested in other's opinion, but the only difference I can see
between pumps on and pumps off could be a slight rise in pressure to the
servo with the pumps on at idle, or a slight rise in pressure to the servo
if the engine's pumps were set lower than the boost pump pressure at other
RPM.
At idle (no boost pump) I see the lowest fuel pressure of the engine pump.
Add a couple hundred RPM and the pressure kicks up and stays put. Once out
of a dead idle, I'm not sure I notice any difference in performance of the
engine which stands to reason and is backed up by the EGT.
Since the servo is working with a lot of differential pressures, at a dead
idle the boost pump IS enough to enrichen the mixture a bit because the idle
mixture was set based on the lower engine pump only pressure. I'm theorizing
here that the extra boost pump fuel pressure at extreme low idle is throwing
the balance of the servo's idle mixture off, but only a little and only near
dead idle when set off engine pump only.
I suppose the amount of 'extra' pounds of fuel pressure with a boost pump at
idle could be unique to each aircraft, or maybe not at all. I'll have to
play with the thing next time out, but higher than about 1200 RPM or so,
maybe lower, I didn't see any difference boost on or off.
Any of that sound legit?
Steve W
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
> Yeah, I lean aggressively on the ground too....best thing in the world for
> the engines. I also use my boost pumps on takeoff. I have turbos too, so
> the pumps go on over 15,500' too. I'm just not a big fan of them on final
> approach.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
>
>>
>> John, I notice a slight richen-ing of the mixture at idle with the pumps
>> on, but I am usually agressively leaned on the ground. I learned some
>> time ago that I liked ground leaning, and if you were going to do it at
>> all, more is better. Kind of hard to forget you're leaned during a
>> take-off roll if pushing the handles up results in no noise.
>>
>> Pumps also go on pre-takeoff, although I'm carrying a little more power
>> than arrival, but again I've not noticed anything irregular.
>>
>> Worst case scenario has been a hurried arrival and turn-off a runway,
>> with pumps left on. I'll notice a lumpier idle than normal and at lower
>> RPM.
>>
>> Steve Welebny
>> Col-East, Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Servo Failure
>> From: John Vormbaum (john(at)vormbaum.com)
>> Date: Fri Apr 13 - 1:58 PM
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Count yourself fortunate that you were safe the whole time. I'm sure I
>> would
>> NOT have recognized that failure mode at all...and it would be extra
>> tough
>> to diagnose in bumps, on a descent, when you think you might have to land
>> short.
>>
>> One thing I do differently in my 500B is to NOT use the fuel boost pumps
>> on
>> approach, even though I was initially trained to. I've heard a couple of
>> stories of not-great fuel systems where the pumps allowed an engine to
>> flood
>> & die when the power was pulled back. Have you checked to see if the
>> pumps
>> have any effect on the engines under low power settings? Just my $0.02
>> and
>> probably not related to your servo issue in any way.
>>
>> Cheers & glad you got down safely,
>>
>> /John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
__________ NOD32 2187 (20070413) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
Also Robert, keep in mind that you're flying a Continental-powered
Commander, so you have low & high boost pump settings. Us Lyc-powered guys
only have "on" and "off" :-).
And Steve, the theories sound good. I wonder what effect the failure of an
engine-driven pump would have on the fuel pressure? Is the servo
self-regulating or is the EDP always the first link in the fuel pressure
management process? Being just the guy who pushes the levers around in the
cockpit, I'm probably light on the more esoteric points of the IO-540's
systems. Perhaps it's time to rectify that.
I'm going to dig around and see if I can find any articles or other
documentation on boost-pump-related engine floodings on approach. I've seen
ONE story along those lines related to Commanders, but I don't remember
which model the author was flying. I want to assume a 500A or 685 because of
all the Bonanza-specific issues I've heard about with the hi/lo boost pump
settings & engine floodings, but I don't know that the Lycs are immune to
similar occurence.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
>
> Steven-
>
> In THEORY (which is an economist's way of saying, "this is someone elses
> idea but if it works you should give me credit for it") the fuel boost
> pumps
> on our commanders are there to provide positive fuel flow from the tank to
> the Engine Driven Pump. The EDP should meter fuel upline from there based
> on it's demand calibration- but the main fuel pumps are primarily to
> ensure
> you have positive fuel pressure from the tank source to the engine.
>
> So in THEORY what you describe is true... You should see no difference in
> performance with the fuel pump LOW or OFF- because the tank based pump
> isn't
> the one providing the performance calibration... Set to HIGH I'm guessing
> you will see a performance change because it appears that the HIGH setting
> is strictly an override mode so it likely invalidates the normal metering
> process (dislaimer: I'm outside my knowledge band in HIGH mode...but this
> performance change is what I see when setting my pumps to HIGH when
> testing
> them pre-flight.)
>
> Just my opinion...
>
> Robert S. Randazzo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 19:23
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
>
> I'd be interested in other's opinion, but the only difference I can see
> between pumps on and pumps off could be a slight rise in pressure to the
> servo with the pumps on at idle, or a slight rise in pressure to the servo
> if the engine's pumps were set lower than the boost pump pressure at other
> RPM.
>
> At idle (no boost pump) I see the lowest fuel pressure of the engine pump.
> Add a couple hundred RPM and the pressure kicks up and stays put. Once out
> of a dead idle, I'm not sure I notice any difference in performance of the
> engine which stands to reason and is backed up by the EGT.
>
> Since the servo is working with a lot of differential pressures, at a dead
> idle the boost pump IS enough to enrichen the mixture a bit because the
> idle
> mixture was set based on the lower engine pump only pressure. I'm
> theorizing
> here that the extra boost pump fuel pressure at extreme low idle is
> throwing
> the balance of the servo's idle mixture off, but only a little and only
> near
> dead idle when set off engine pump only.
>
> I suppose the amount of 'extra' pounds of fuel pressure with a boost pump
> at
> idle could be unique to each aircraft, or maybe not at all. I'll have to
> play with the thing next time out, but higher than about 1200 RPM or so,
> maybe lower, I didn't see any difference boost on or off.
>
> Any of that sound legit?
>
> Steve W
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 8:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
>
>>
>> Yeah, I lean aggressively on the ground too....best thing in the world
>> for
>
>> the engines. I also use my boost pumps on takeoff. I have turbos too, so
>> the pumps go on over 15,500' too. I'm just not a big fan of them on final
>> approach.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>>
>>
>>>
>>> John, I notice a slight richen-ing of the mixture at idle with the pumps
>>> on, but I am usually agressively leaned on the ground. I learned some
>>> time ago that I liked ground leaning, and if you were going to do it at
>>> all, more is better. Kind of hard to forget you're leaned during a
>>> take-off roll if pushing the handles up results in no noise.
>>>
>>> Pumps also go on pre-takeoff, although I'm carrying a little more power
>>> than arrival, but again I've not noticed anything irregular.
>>>
>>> Worst case scenario has been a hurried arrival and turn-off a runway,
>>> with pumps left on. I'll notice a lumpier idle than normal and at lower
>>> RPM.
>>>
>>> Steve Welebny
>>> Col-East, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Servo Failure
>>> From: John Vormbaum (john(at)vormbaum.com)
>>> Date: Fri Apr 13 - 1:58 PM
>>>
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>> Count yourself fortunate that you were safe the whole time. I'm sure I
>>> would
>>> NOT have recognized that failure mode at all...and it would be extra
>>> tough
>>> to diagnose in bumps, on a descent, when you think you might have to
>>> land
>>> short.
>>>
>>> One thing I do differently in my 500B is to NOT use the fuel boost pumps
>>> on
>>> approach, even though I was initially trained to. I've heard a couple of
>>> stories of not-great fuel systems where the pumps allowed an engine to
>>> flood
>>> & die when the power was pulled back. Have you checked to see if the
>>> pumps
>>> have any effect on the engines under low power settings? Just my $0.02
>>> and
>>> probably not related to your servo issue in any way.
>>>
>>> Cheers & glad you got down safely,
>>>
>>> /John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2187 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
John-
Good "Head's Up." (and good memory, too!) I wasn't aware that the 685/TCM
powered commanders have different pumps. Learn something every day!
Anyone familiar with the 685 have good fuel pump management techniques?
I've gotten a range of opinions from folks who don't really have much direct
experience with them- so I'd love to hear experienced opinions.
Robert S. Randazzo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 20:41
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
-->
Also Robert, keep in mind that you're flying a Continental-powered
Commander, so you have low & high boost pump settings. Us Lyc-powered guys
only have "on" and "off" :-).
And Steve, the theories sound good. I wonder what effect the failure of an
engine-driven pump would have on the fuel pressure? Is the servo
self-regulating or is the EDP always the first link in the fuel pressure
management process? Being just the guy who pushes the levers around in the
cockpit, I'm probably light on the more esoteric points of the IO-540's
systems. Perhaps it's time to rectify that.
I'm going to dig around and see if I can find any articles or other
documentation on boost-pump-related engine floodings on approach. I've seen
ONE story along those lines related to Commanders, but I don't remember
which model the author was flying. I want to assume a 500A or 685 because of
all the Bonanza-specific issues I've heard about with the hi/lo boost pump
settings & engine floodings, but I don't know that the Lycs are immune to
similar occurence.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
>
> Steven-
>
> In THEORY (which is an economist's way of saying, "this is someone elses
> idea but if it works you should give me credit for it") the fuel boost
> pumps
> on our commanders are there to provide positive fuel flow from the tank to
> the Engine Driven Pump. The EDP should meter fuel upline from there based
> on it's demand calibration- but the main fuel pumps are primarily to
> ensure
> you have positive fuel pressure from the tank source to the engine.
>
> So in THEORY what you describe is true... You should see no difference in
> performance with the fuel pump LOW or OFF- because the tank based pump
> isn't
> the one providing the performance calibration... Set to HIGH I'm guessing
> you will see a performance change because it appears that the HIGH setting
> is strictly an override mode so it likely invalidates the normal metering
> process (dislaimer: I'm outside my knowledge band in HIGH mode...but this
> performance change is what I see when setting my pumps to HIGH when
> testing
> them pre-flight.)
>
> Just my opinion...
>
> Robert S. Randazzo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 19:23
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
>
> I'd be interested in other's opinion, but the only difference I can see
> between pumps on and pumps off could be a slight rise in pressure to the
> servo with the pumps on at idle, or a slight rise in pressure to the servo
> if the engine's pumps were set lower than the boost pump pressure at other
> RPM.
>
> At idle (no boost pump) I see the lowest fuel pressure of the engine pump.
> Add a couple hundred RPM and the pressure kicks up and stays put. Once out
> of a dead idle, I'm not sure I notice any difference in performance of the
> engine which stands to reason and is backed up by the EGT.
>
> Since the servo is working with a lot of differential pressures, at a dead
> idle the boost pump IS enough to enrichen the mixture a bit because the
> idle
> mixture was set based on the lower engine pump only pressure. I'm
> theorizing
> here that the extra boost pump fuel pressure at extreme low idle is
> throwing
> the balance of the servo's idle mixture off, but only a little and only
> near
> dead idle when set off engine pump only.
>
> I suppose the amount of 'extra' pounds of fuel pressure with a boost pump
> at
> idle could be unique to each aircraft, or maybe not at all. I'll have to
> play with the thing next time out, but higher than about 1200 RPM or so,
> maybe lower, I didn't see any difference boost on or off.
>
> Any of that sound legit?
>
> Steve W
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 8:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
>
>>
>> Yeah, I lean aggressively on the ground too....best thing in the world
>> for
>
>> the engines. I also use my boost pumps on takeoff. I have turbos too, so
>> the pumps go on over 15,500' too. I'm just not a big fan of them on final
>> approach.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>>
>>
>>>
>>> John, I notice a slight richen-ing of the mixture at idle with the pumps
>>> on, but I am usually agressively leaned on the ground. I learned some
>>> time ago that I liked ground leaning, and if you were going to do it at
>>> all, more is better. Kind of hard to forget you're leaned during a
>>> take-off roll if pushing the handles up results in no noise.
>>>
>>> Pumps also go on pre-takeoff, although I'm carrying a little more power
>>> than arrival, but again I've not noticed anything irregular.
>>>
>>> Worst case scenario has been a hurried arrival and turn-off a runway,
>>> with pumps left on. I'll notice a lumpier idle than normal and at lower
>>> RPM.
>>>
>>> Steve Welebny
>>> Col-East, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Servo Failure
>>> From: John Vormbaum (john(at)vormbaum.com)
>>> Date: Fri Apr 13 - 1:58 PM
>>>
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>> Count yourself fortunate that you were safe the whole time. I'm sure I
>>> would
>>> NOT have recognized that failure mode at all...and it would be extra
>>> tough
>>> to diagnose in bumps, on a descent, when you think you might have to
>>> land
>>> short.
>>>
>>> One thing I do differently in my 500B is to NOT use the fuel boost pumps
>>> on
>>> approach, even though I was initially trained to. I've heard a couple of
>>> stories of not-great fuel systems where the pumps allowed an engine to
>>> flood
>>> & die when the power was pulled back. Have you checked to see if the
>>> pumps
>>> have any effect on the engines under low power settings? Just my $0.02
>>> and
>>> probably not related to your servo issue in any way.
>>>
>>> Cheers & glad you got down safely,
>>>
>>> /John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2187 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2186 (20070413) Information __________
>
>
>
__________ NOD32 2187 (20070413) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
John,
I've got a pretty good article on the Bendix servo. Monday I can scan the
thing and post it to our company's website.
If the fuel boost pump pressure and the engine fuel pump pressure were about
the same, I can't see that the servo should care which one is feeding it.
(For the single speed IO-540 pumps).
>From what I understand (and it's limited) the servo is set up on the bench
for normal aircraft fuel pressure.
All things being equal, if you change the ship's fuel pressure, you change
the fuel flow. For example at W.O.T, setting the engine driven fuel pump
pressure up and down will have a direct relationship to the fuel flow. The
last 'rebuild' on our servo came back twice with a wide open throttle fuel
flow lower than what we hoped to see. The second time was better, but we
compensated somewhat by running slightly higher fuel pressure on the right
side.
With this last rebuild it's finally right, but with us running the right
engine fuel pressure toward the high end of the green arc, the WOT fuel flow
was now too high, and the ship's fuel pressure was dropped back to the
middle of standard.
On the IO-540's the 'fuel flow' isn't really a measure of flow, but another
measure of pressure, this time at the fuel distribution spider. Plug an
injector and it would appear you've got more flow, when all you've got is
really more pressure.
Also keep in mind with these servos that with differential pressures being
used, some of the failure modes are fuel crossing to places it shouldn't
ought to be.
I think everything I said is true.
Steve
Also Robert, keep in mind that you're flying a Continental-powered
Commander, so you have low & high boost pump settings. Us Lyc-powered guys
only have "on" and "off" :-).
And Steve, the theories sound good. I wonder what effect the failure of an
engine-driven pump would have on the fuel pressure? Is the servo
self-regulating or is the EDP always the first link in the fuel pressure
management process? Being just the guy who pushes the levers around in the
cockpit, I'm probably light on the more esoteric points of the IO-540's
systems. Perhaps it's time to rectify that.
I'm going to dig around and see if I can find any articles or other
documentation on boost-pump-related engine floodings on approach. I've seen
ONE story along those lines related to Commanders, but I don't remember
which model the author was flying. I want to assume a 500A or 685 because of
all the Bonanza-specific issues I've heard about with the hi/lo boost pump
settings & engine floodings, but I don't know that the Lycs are immune to
similar occurence.
/J
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
| From: | Deneal Schilmeister <deneals(at)deneals.com> |
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/845-full.html#194933
Orenda Rises Again
A Midland, Texas, company has received FAA approval to take over the engine
type certificate for the Orenda OE600A, a Canadian-developed, 600-hp V-8
based on a big-block Chevy engine. The granting of the type certificate
transfer from the former Canadian owners allows Trace Engines to begin
shipping engines, including the 10 finished mills it inherited in the
takeover of the project. Two engines were shipped, ironically, to Canada
last week and are expected to be flying by the end of the month. The Texas
plant won=B9t likely build its first engine until September. "Because this is
a start-up, we have the opportunity to do things right the first time,"
spokesman Craig Hoover told the Midland Reporter-Telegram. "We have an
active research and development program. There are things we want to improv
e
on the engines even before we begin production." The big recips are aimed a
t
replacing far more expensive small turboprops on a variety of light and
business aircraft. They were developed about 20 years ago in Canada, but
despite gaining certification were not widely installed. Hoover said his
company aims to change that and he expects a lot of foreign orders. There
are 12 people working at Trace now, but plans are to increase that tenfold
and incorporate a college training program into the factory.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
Great, but will it be offered for Commanders???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Help Finding Part... |
Commanders-
Does anyone have a lead on the rudder gap heating element for a 685/690
commander?
Part number is: P/N 5E1487-2.
The one we have is pretty severely delaminated- and as far as I can tell
nobody overhauls them... We found one available for sale but they want
$3,400.
Ideas? Help? All appreciated.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Sure be nice if someone offered an affordable replacement for the
GO-480/GSO480 engines. Ideally that eat Jet-A. Avgas around here is
above $4/gal, Jet-A about $3.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Owens
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
Great, but will it be offered for Commanders???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
After reading the thread about those heavy geared engines, this should
really be a nice revival.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deneal
Schilmeister
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:31 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/845-full.html#194933
Orenda Rises Again
A Midland, Texas, company has received FAA approval to take over the engine
type certificate for the Orenda OE600A, a Canadian-developed, 600-hp V-8
based on a big-block Chevy engine. The granting of the type certificate
transfer from the former Canadian owners allows Trace Engines to begin
shipping engines, including the 10 finished mills it inherited in the
takeover of the project. Two engines were shipped, ironically, to Canada
last week and are expected to be flying by the end of the month. The Texas
plant won't likely build its first engine until September. "Because this is
a start-up, we have the opportunity to do things right the first time,"
spokesman Craig Hoover told the Midland Reporter-Telegram. "We have an
active research and development program. There are things we want to improve
on the engines even before we begin production." The big recips are aimed at
replacing far more expensive small turboprops on a variety of light and
business aircraft. They were developed about 20 years ago in Canada, but
despite gaining certification were not widely installed. Hoover said his
company aims to change that and he expects a lot of foreign orders. There
are 12 people working at Trace now, but plans are to increase that tenfold
and incorporate a college training program into the factory.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
Well I was going to email the Bendix servo article out to anyone that wanted
it, but after having to use a chainsaw, tow strap and my truck this morning
to get pine trees out of the way to get to work after this last Nor'easter,
I think up in Vermont we're going to be without power for a while. I did put
it on our company's Downloads page, under Bendix.zip.
http://www.col-east.com/index.php
Let me know if anyone has any trouble with zip files. I'll check messages on
Tuesday.
Steve Welebny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
> John,
>
> I've got a pretty good article on the Bendix servo. Monday I can scan the
> thing and post it to our company's website.
>
> If the fuel boost pump pressure and the engine fuel pump pressure were
> about the same, I can't see that the servo should care which one is
> feeding it. (For the single speed IO-540 pumps).
>
>>From what I understand (and it's limited) the servo is set up on the bench
> for normal aircraft fuel pressure.
>
> All things being equal, if you change the ship's fuel pressure, you change
> the fuel flow. For example at W.O.T, setting the engine driven fuel pump
> pressure up and down will have a direct relationship to the fuel flow. The
> last 'rebuild' on our servo came back twice with a wide open throttle fuel
> flow lower than what we hoped to see. The second time was better, but we
> compensated somewhat by running slightly higher fuel pressure on the right
> side.
>
> With this last rebuild it's finally right, but with us running the right
> engine fuel pressure toward the high end of the green arc, the WOT fuel
> flow was now too high, and the ship's fuel pressure was dropped back to
> the middle of standard.
>
> On the IO-540's the 'fuel flow' isn't really a measure of flow, but
> another measure of pressure, this time at the fuel distribution spider.
> Plug an injector and it would appear you've got more flow, when all you've
> got is really more pressure.
>
> Also keep in mind with these servos that with differential pressures being
> used, some of the failure modes are fuel crossing to places it shouldn't
> ought to be.
>
> I think everything I said is true.
>
> Steve
>
>
> Also Robert, keep in mind that you're flying a Continental-powered
> Commander, so you have low & high boost pump settings. Us Lyc-powered guys
> only have "on" and "off" :-).
>
> And Steve, the theories sound good. I wonder what effect the failure of an
> engine-driven pump would have on the fuel pressure? Is the servo
> self-regulating or is the EDP always the first link in the fuel pressure
> management process? Being just the guy who pushes the levers around in the
> cockpit, I'm probably light on the more esoteric points of the IO-540's
> systems. Perhaps it's time to rectify that.
>
> I'm going to dig around and see if I can find any articles or other
> documentation on boost-pump-related engine floodings on approach. I've
> seen
> ONE story along those lines related to Commanders, but I don't remember
> which model the author was flying. I want to assume a 500A or 685 because
> of
> all the Bonanza-specific issues I've heard about with the hi/lo boost pump
> settings & engine floodings, but I don't know that the Lycs are immune to
> similar occurence.
>
> /J
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
Folks,
At the risk of pouring cold water on a good news story, there were
some good engineering reasons why the Orenda program went very quiet.
I really hope the new Type Certificate holders overcome the problems.
Last time I noticed, the only Orenda powered Commander was still
being advertised for sale as an Experimental aircraft, the STC was
presumably never completed.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 05:18 AM 17/04/2007, you wrote:
>After reading the thread about those heavy geared engines, this
>should really be a nice revival.
>Nico
>
>
>----------
>From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Deneal Schilmeister
>Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:31 AM
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>
><http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/845-full.html#194933>http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/845-full.html#194933
>
>Orenda Rises Again
>
>A Midland, Texas, company has received FAA approval to take over the
>engine type certificate for the Orenda OE600A, a Canadian-developed,
>600-hp V-8 based on a big-block Chevy engine. The granting of the
>type certificate transfer from the former Canadian owners allows
>Trace Engines to begin shipping engines, including the 10 finished
>mills it inherited in the takeover of the project. Two engines were
>shipped, ironically, to Canada last week and are expected to be
>flying by the end of the month. The Texas plant won't likely build
>its first engine until September. "Because this is a start-up, we
>have the opportunity to do things right the first time," spokesman
>Craig Hoover told the Midland Reporter-Telegram. "We have an active
>research and development program. There are things we want to
>improve on the engines even before we begin production." The big
>recips are aimed at replacing far more expensive small turboprops on
>a variety of light and business aircraft. They were developed about
>20 years ago in Canada, but despite gaining certification were not
>widely installed. Hoover said his company aims to change that and he
>expects a lot of foreign orders. There are 12 people working at
>Trace now, but plans are to increase that tenfold and incorporate a
>college training program into the factory.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
Bill-
As a 685 owner- the Orenda project has obviously come across various
google
searches I've made... I got the impression from reading around the
various
pieces on the internet that the project died on account of funding
issues...
Can you offer any insight on what the engineering reasons were?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W J R
HAMILTON
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 19:49
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
Folks,
At the risk of pouring cold water on a good news story, there were some
good
engineering reasons why the Orenda program went very quiet.
I really hope the new Type Certificate holders overcome the problems.
Last time I noticed, the only Orenda powered Commander was still being
advertised for sale as an Experimental aircraft, the STC was presumably
never completed.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 05:18 AM 17/04/2007, you wrote:
After reading the thread about those heavy geared engines, this should
really be a nice revival.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deneal
Schilmeister
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:31 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/845-full.html#194933
Orenda Rises Again
A Midland, Texas, company has received FAA approval to take over the
engine
type certificate for the Orenda OE600A, a Canadian-developed, 600-hp V-8
based on a big-block Chevy engine. The granting of the type certificate
transfer from the former Canadian owners allows Trace Engines to begin
shipping engines, including the 10 finished mills it inherited in the
takeover of the project. Two engines were shipped, ironically, to Canada
last week and are expected to be flying by the end of the month. The
Texas
plant won=12t likely build its first engine until September. "Because
this is
a start-up, we have the opportunity to do things right the first time,"
spokesman Craig Hoover told the Midland Reporter-Telegram. "We have an
active research and development program. There are things we want to
improve
on the engines even before we begin production." The big recips are
aimed at
replacing far more expensive small turboprops on a variety of light and
business aircraft. They were developed about 20 years ago in Canada, but
despite gaining certification were not widely installed. Hoover said his
company aims to change that and he expects a lot of foreign orders.
There
are 12 people working at Trace now, but plans are to increase that
tenfold
and incorporate a college training program into the factory.
__________ NOD32 2196 (20070417) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Interesting article I found on the Rocket list. It might be useful to all
owners.
Thanks
Nico
After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where I can
safely say that clocking the prop doesn't just make a difference, it makes
ALL the difference.
Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a vibration in my
RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There has been a
vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common on big engine
Rockets and RV's. The lower the RPM, the more objectionable it was.
I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get real
results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop clocking,
I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not kidding. You can
read all the details here. http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm
I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have a new
plane as a result.
Best,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
What model commander was it on???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
Hi David,
The Orenda engine was flown on a Model 685.
If you go to ......
http://www.mrrpm.com/
...... there is a video you can see of it in action!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: David Owens
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
What model commander was it on???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the
smaller 500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the fuselage
might be the downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would do to a 7400
max gw airframe... Straight up???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
I personally suspect that the 500 series would require a six cylinder
version, which Orenda was going to produce as soon as the 8 cylinder was
making money.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the
smaller 500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the fuselage
might be the downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would do to a 7400
max gw airframe... Straight up???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
Ohhhhh, OK... That would still be cool, so I guess were looking at years
down the road... The engines are new, so mabey they can go that long,
and then ask again. :)
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
Bruce,
Do you have any information on the six cylinder? I was unaware of the fact
that Dick and his predecessors had this in mind.
Just curious, as v-6 engines are usually problematic.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I personally suspect that the 500 series would require a six cylinder
version, which Orenda was going to produce as soon as the 8 cylinder was
making money.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the smaller
500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the fuselage might be the
downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would do to a 7400 max gw airframe...
Straight up???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
They discussed a future v6 several times before they went belly up.
I don't know what the plans were about the type of v6. There are plenty
of v6s in the auto market, but I do remember the GM 90 degree v6's
(like the Buick 3.8 liter, which was a 75% slice of a V8) were rough
until GM put a six-throw crank in them. After that they seem to have
been OK. Presumably Orenda would do something similar to the GM
exercise.
But that is all speculation.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe -
Ross Racing Pistons
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
Bruce,
Do you have any information on the six cylinder? I was unaware of the
fact that Dick and his predecessors had this in mind.
Just curious, as v-6 engines are usually problematic.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I personally suspect that the 500 series would require a six cylinder
version, which Orenda was going to produce as soon as the 8 cylinder was
making money.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the
smaller 500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the fuselage
might be the downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would do to a 7400
max gw airframe... Straight up???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
I saw Thielert is planning a 350 hp diesel engine. That would be something
cool for the 500 series, don't you think?
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2006/apr/diesel_skylane.html
http://www.aflyer.com/atlantic_flyer.year/atlantic_flyer.oct%2006/OCTpdf/pag
e11.pdf
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
They discussed a future v6 several times before they went belly up.
I don't know what the plans were about the type of v6. There are plenty of
v6s in the auto market, but I do remember the GM 90 degree v6's (like the
Buick 3.8 liter, which was a 75% slice of a V8) were rough until GM put a
six-throw crank in them. After that they seem to have been OK. Presumably
Orenda would do something similar to the GM exercise.
But that is all speculation.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross
Racing Pistons
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
Bruce,
Do you have any information on the six cylinder? I was unaware of the fact
that Dick and his predecessors had this in mind.
Just curious, as v-6 engines are usually problematic.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I personally suspect that the 500 series would require a six cylinder
version, which Orenda was going to produce as soon as the 8 cylinder was
making money.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the smaller
500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the fuselage might be the
downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would do to a 7400 max gw airframe...
Straight up???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
It seems awfully heavy, about 660 lb all up. I don't know if this
includes the prop, but if it does, the empty weight gain on a 500 or 560
would be about 300-400lb. With the fuel savings it probably would be
about a 100-200lb reduction in payload.
It would scream, though. >2000 fpm until you passed out from the
bends.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I saw Thielert is planning a 350 hp diesel engine. That would be
something cool for the 500 series, don't you think?
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2006/apr/diesel_skylane.html
http://www.aflyer.com/atlantic_flyer.year/atlantic_flyer.oct%2006/OCTpdf
/page11.pdf
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
They discussed a future v6 several times before they went belly up.
I don't know what the plans were about the type of v6. There are plenty
of v6s in the auto market, but I do remember the GM 90 degree v6's
(like the Buick 3.8 liter, which was a 75% slice of a V8) were rough
until GM put a six-throw crank in them. After that they seem to have
been OK. Presumably Orenda would do something similar to the GM
exercise.
But that is all speculation.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe -
Ross Racing Pistons
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
Bruce,
Do you have any information on the six cylinder? I was unaware of the
fact that Dick and his predecessors had this in mind.
Just curious, as v-6 engines are usually problematic.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I personally suspect that the 500 series would require a six cylinder
version, which Orenda was going to produce as soon as the 8 cylinder was
making money.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the
smaller 500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the fuselage
might be the downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would do to a 7400
max gw airframe... Straight up???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
Exactly. I've been thinking the Thielert turbo-diesel in the 500 series
would be a great match. The right power, the right weight, the right
fuel, and its blown to boot.
(Too bad it can't possibly sound as good as a big block chevy.)
With engines like the Thielert up and coming, and small turbines in
development, I wonder how far the Orenda can get?
Hard to imagine a realistic scenario that has I0-540 owners modifying
airframes to put in a radically different gas fueled powerplant to
replace something that is so good at what it does year after year.
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:11 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I saw Thielert is planning a 350 hp diesel engine. That would be
something cool for the 500 series, don't you think?
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2006/apr/diesel_skylane.html
http://www.aflyer.com/atlantic_flyer.year/atlantic_flyer.oct%2006/OCTpdf/
page11.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:24 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
They discussed a future v6 several times before they went belly up.
I don't know what the plans were about the type of v6. There are
plenty of v6s in the auto market, but I do remember the GM 90 degree
v6's (like the Buick 3.8 liter, which was a 75% slice of a V8) were
rough until GM put a six-throw crank in them. After that they seem to
have been OK. Presumably Orenda would do something similar to the GM
exercise.
But that is all speculation.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe -
Ross Racing Pistons
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:56 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
Bruce,
Do you have any information on the six cylinder? I was unaware of the
fact that Dick and his predecessors had this in mind.
Just curious, as v-6 engines are usually problematic.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:30 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I personally suspect that the 500 series would require a six cylinder
version, which Orenda was going to produce as soon as the 8 cylinder was
making money.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:18 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the
smaller 500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the fuselage
might be the downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would do to a 7400
max gw airframe... Straight up???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
According to Lycoming's web site a tsio-540 J is 550 lbs with out
prop. 660 all up with prop sounds about right.
http://www.centurion-engines.com/
Cirrus and Diamond have announced the 400 Centurion engine will be in
their aircraft factory new.
Look to Cessna for the next announcement in the C206 and their new
aircraft.
Tylor Hall
On Apr 17, 2007, at 12:28 PM, Bruce Campbell wrote:
> It seems awfully heavy, about 660 lb all up. I don=92t know if this
> includes the prop, but if it does, the empty weight gain on a 500
> or 560 would be about 300-400lb. With the fuel savings it probably
> would be about a 100-200lb reduction in payload.
>
>
> It would scream, though. >2000 fpm until you passed out from the
> bends.
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:12 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>
>
> I saw Thielert is planning a 350 hp diesel engine. That would be
> something cool for the 500 series, don=92t you think?
>
>
> http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2006/apr/diesel_skylane.html
>
> http://www.aflyer.com/atlantic_flyer.year/atlantic_flyer.oct%2006/
> OCTpdf/page11.pdf
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:24 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>
>
> They discussed a future v6 several times before they went belly up.
>
>
> I don=92t know what the plans were about the type of v6. There are
> plenty of v6s in the auto market, but I do remember the GM 90
> degree v6=92s (like the Buick 3.8 liter, which was a 75% slice of a
> V8) were rough until GM put a six-throw crank in them. After that
> they seem to have been OK. Presumably Orenda would do something
> similar to the GM exercise.
>
>
> But that is all speculation.
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross Racing
> Pistons
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:56 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>
>
> Bruce,
>
>
> Do you have any information on the six cylinder? I was unaware of
> the fact that Dick and his predecessors had this in mind.
>
>
> Just curious, as v-6 engines are usually problematic.
>
>
> Moe
>
> N680RR
>
> 680F(p)
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:30 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>
>
> I personally suspect that the 500 series would require a six
> cylinder version, which Orenda was going to produce as soon as the
> 8 cylinder was making money.
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:18 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>
>
> I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the
> smaller 500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the
> fuselage might be the downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would
> do to a 7400 max gw airframe... Straight up???
>
>
> David Owens
> Aerial Viewpoint
> N14AV
> AC-500A-Colemill
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
Matronics
> ========================
> ========================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
Yes, I think very much so :)
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
I think the x-tra hp should (mabey) make up for the weight gain... with
a fresh W&B of course
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
Yea, for us normally aspirated 300HP Continentals or Lycs, it would be a
tremendous improvment, breathing much needed life back into the
airframe, as well as the interest in Commanders overall...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
But I think it's perhaps too late for the Orenda. The diesels overtook
whatever advantage they had in the marketplace. I wouldn't have invested in
it if I had the money. It's a pity, but it's a fact.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
Yea, for us normally aspirated 300HP Continentals or Lycs, it would be a
tremendous improvment, breathing much needed life back into the airframe, as
well as the interest in Commanders overall...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Orenda Rises Again |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Here the avgas is hit5ing $4+ /gal and Jet-A can be had for $2.99. I
suspect the Theilert Centurion 4.0 would be the better bet if I was
going to try for an STC, but Theilert seems very uninterested in
promoting STCs currently (this came from the company itself). Apparently
they are selling all of the engines they can produce, and want to focus
on Quantity or, even better, OEM relationships (like Diamond or Cirrus)
where they can get the OEM to commit to ordering lots of engines in
future by contract.
Of course, in the airplane biz, such contracts don't last very long,
only as long as the company's next chap 11 or acquisition, but that's
what they're doing.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
But I think it's perhaps too late for the Orenda. The diesels overtook
whatever advantage they had in the marketplace. I wouldn't have invested
in it if I had the money. It's a pity, but it's a fact.
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
Yea, for us normally aspirated 300HP Continentals or Lycs, it would be a
tremendous improvment, breathing much needed life back into the
airframe, as well as the interest in Commanders overall...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
th, the mr rpm conversion is still fairly competative. the IO-720 @
400hp per side and 34 gph is not bad. mason
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall<mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
According to Lycoming's web site a tsio-540 J is 550 lbs with out
prop. 660 all up with prop sounds about right.
http://www.centurion-engines.com>/
Cirrus and Diamond have announced the 400 Centurion engine will be in
their aircraft factory new.
Look to Cessna for the next announcement in the C206 and their new
aircraft.
Tylor Hall
On Apr 17, 2007, at 12:28 PM, Bruce Campbell wrote:
It seems awfully heavy, about 660 lb all up. I don=92t know if this
includes the prop, but if it does, the empty weight gain on a 500 or 560
would be about 300-400lb. With the fuel savings it probably would be
about a 100-200lb reduction in payload.
It would scream, though. >2000 fpm until you passed out from the
bends.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:12 AM
To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I saw Thielert is planning a 350 hp diesel engine. That would be
something cool for the 500 series, don=92t you think?
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2006/apr/diesel_skylane.html
://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2006/apr/diesel_skylane.html>
http://www.aflyer.com/atlantic_flyer.year/atlantic_flyer.oct%2006/OCTpdf/
page11.pdf<http://www.aflyer.com/atlantic_flyer.year/atlantic_flyer.oct%2
006/OCTpdf/page11.pdf>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:24 AM
To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
They discussed a future v6 several times before they went belly up.
I don=92t know what the plans were about the type of v6. There are
plenty of v6s in the auto market, but I do remember the GM 90 degree
v6=92s (like the Buick 3.8 liter, which was a 75% slice of a V8) were
rough until GM put a six-throw crank in them. After that they seem to
have been OK. Presumably Orenda would do something similar to the GM
exercise.
But that is all speculation.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross Racing Pistons
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:56 AM
To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
Bruce,
Do you have any information on the six cylinder? I was unaware of
the fact that Dick and his predecessors had this in mind.
Just curious, as v-6 engines are usually problematic.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:30 AM
To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I personally suspect that the 500 series would require a six
cylinder version, which Orenda was going to produce as soon as the 8
cylinder was making money.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:18 AM
To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the
smaller 500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the fuselage
might be the downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would do to a 7400
max gw airframe... Straight up???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://forums.matronics.com>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://forums.matronics.com>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>http://forums.matronics.com
onics.com/> - The Commander-List Email -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://forums.matronics.com>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
Mason,
You ever coming out to NM any time soon?
Yes that is reasonable. The STC on any new engine will be a lot of
money.
Tylor Hall
On Apr 17, 2007, at 6:11 PM, MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:
> th, the mr rpm conversion is still fairly competative. the IO-720
> @ 400hp per side and 34 gph is not bad. mason
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tylor Hall
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>
> According to Lycoming's web site a tsio-540 J is 550 lbs with out
> prop. 660 all up with prop sounds about right.
>
> http://www.centurion-engines.com/
>
> Cirrus and Diamond have announced the 400 Centurion engine will be
> in their aircraft factory new.
> Look to Cessna for the next announcement in the C206 and their new
> aircraft.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
> On Apr 17, 2007, at 12:28 PM, Bruce Campbell wrote:
>
>> It seems awfully heavy, about 660 lb all up. I don=92t know if this
>> includes the prop, but if it does, the empty weight gain on a 500
>> or 560 would be about 300-400lb. With the fuel savings it probably
>> would be about a 100-200lb reduction in payload.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would scream, though. >2000 fpm until you passed out from the
>> bends.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
>> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:12 AM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>>
>>
>>
>> I saw Thielert is planning a 350 hp diesel engine. That would be
>> something cool for the 500 series, don=92t you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2006/apr/diesel_skylane.html
>>
>> http://www.aflyer.com/atlantic_flyer.year/atlantic_flyer.oct%2006/
>> OCTpdf/page11.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
>> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:24 AM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>>
>>
>>
>> They discussed a future v6 several times before they went belly up.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don=92t know what the plans were about the type of v6. There are
>> plenty of v6s in the auto market, but I do remember the GM 90
>> degree v6=92s (like the Buick 3.8 liter, which was a 75% slice of a
>> V8) were rough until GM put a six-throw crank in them. After that
>> they seem to have been OK. Presumably Orenda would do something
>> similar to the GM exercise.
>>
>>
>>
>> But that is all speculation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
>> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Moe - Ross Racing
>> Pistons
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:56 AM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce,
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you have any information on the six cylinder? I was unaware of
>> the fact that Dick and his predecessors had this in mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just curious, as v-6 engines are usually problematic.
>>
>>
>>
>> Moe
>>
>> N680RR
>>
>> 680F(p)
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
>> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:30 AM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>>
>>
>>
>> I personally suspect that the 500 series would require a six
>> cylinder version, which Orenda was going to produce as soon as the
>> 8 cylinder was making money.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
>> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Owens
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:18 AM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Orenda Rises Again
>>
>>
>>
>> I will... BUT, my question is , do you think it would work on the
>> smaller 500 series airframe? The wing root being closer to the
>> fuselage might be the downer... Wonder what 600 hp per side would
>> do to a 7400 max gw airframe... Straight up???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David Owens
>> Aerial Viewpoint
>> N14AV
>> AC-500A-Colemill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> - The Commander-List Email --> http://www.matronics.com/
>> Navigator?Commander-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
>> - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>
> title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://
> forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Matronics
> ========================
> ========================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
John,
If you're reading this, did you see the servo data is up on the web-site?
www.col-east.com
We got power back, but no email at home and I believe you had sent me mail
interested in a copy. Just wanted to follow-up and I don't know when we'll
have our phone back for the modem.
Aside from the computer, we don't really miss the phone much.
Steve Welebny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
> John,
>
> I've got a pretty good article on the Bendix servo. Monday I can scan the
> thing and post it to our company's website.
>
> If the fuel boost pump pressure and the engine fuel pump pressure were
> about the same, I can't see that the servo should care which one is
> feeding it. (For the single speed IO-540 pumps).
>
>>From what I understand (and it's limited) the servo is set up on the bench
> for normal aircraft fuel pressure.
>
> All things being equal, if you change the ship's fuel pressure, you change
> the fuel flow. For example at W.O.T, setting the engine driven fuel pump
> pressure up and down will have a direct relationship to the fuel flow. The
> last 'rebuild' on our servo came back twice with a wide open throttle fuel
> flow lower than what we hoped to see. The second time was better, but we
> compensated somewhat by running slightly higher fuel pressure on the right
> side.
>
> With this last rebuild it's finally right, but with us running the right
> engine fuel pressure toward the high end of the green arc, the WOT fuel
> flow was now too high, and the ship's fuel pressure was dropped back to
> the middle of standard.
>
> On the IO-540's the 'fuel flow' isn't really a measure of flow, but
> another measure of pressure, this time at the fuel distribution spider.
> Plug an injector and it would appear you've got more flow, when all you've
> got is really more pressure.
>
> Also keep in mind with these servos that with differential pressures being
> used, some of the failure modes are fuel crossing to places it shouldn't
> ought to be.
>
> I think everything I said is true.
>
> Steve
>
>
> Also Robert, keep in mind that you're flying a Continental-powered
> Commander, so you have low & high boost pump settings. Us Lyc-powered guys
> only have "on" and "off" :-).
>
> And Steve, the theories sound good. I wonder what effect the failure of an
> engine-driven pump would have on the fuel pressure? Is the servo
> self-regulating or is the EDP always the first link in the fuel pressure
> management process? Being just the guy who pushes the levers around in the
> cockpit, I'm probably light on the more esoteric points of the IO-540's
> systems. Perhaps it's time to rectify that.
>
> I'm going to dig around and see if I can find any articles or other
> documentation on boost-pump-related engine floodings on approach. I've
> seen
> ONE story along those lines related to Commanders, but I don't remember
> which model the author was flying. I want to assume a 500A or 685 because
> of
> all the Bonanza-specific issues I've heard about with the hi/lo boost pump
> settings & engine floodings, but I don't know that the Lycs are immune to
> similar occurence.
>
> /J
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Commanders in business |
Is this anyone on the list's company?
www.col-east.com
March 06, 2007 - April 19, 2007
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ci