Commander-Archive.digest.vol-cm
July 26, 2007 - August 18, 2007
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
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CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet
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and Warbirds.Net. &
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should
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distribution,disclosure or copying of this message is strictly
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=
_____
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
roddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow">Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's upd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TCFG membership |
Afternoon Nico, info as of now:=0A# of seats = 3-4=0ADeparture = EKY (B
essemer, AL.-Birmingham area)=0ADep date = 20th- AM=0ARet date = 23- 24
th AM=0AContribution = # in plane / fuel & oil costs=0A=0AThe above dates
are flexible.=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Origi
nal Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>=0ATo: commande
r-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:22:44 AM=0ASubject:
Commander-List: TCFG membership=0A=0A=0AI forwarded your request for membe
rship directly to Jim, Donnie. =0A =0ACould you give me more info about the
empty seats, I would like to put it up on the website if you are OK with t
hat. If your seats are filled, we can take it off again.=0A =0AHelpful info
would be type of aircraft, number of seats, from which airfield would you
be departing and time of departure; when you would be returning with time;
and finally the matter of cost contribution.=0A =0AThanks=0A =0ANico=0A =0A
=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:ow
ner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: T
hursday, July 26, 2007 7:39 AM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject
: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0A???=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/4
92-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nico@cybers
uperstore.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, July 2
5, 2007 11:58:42 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0AJim M
etzger (Capt Jimbob) will pick this up and take care of it for you.=0ANico
=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto
:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent
: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:10 PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASub
ject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0AHey Nico, I was about to r
egister but it has a slot for "member", how do I become one?=0ABy the way,
I will have empty seats if anyone needs a ride.=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/49
2-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nico@cybersu
perstore.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, July 25
, 2007 8:17:13 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0ACheck i
t out on the website, Donnie.=0A =0Awww.aerocommander.com=0A =0ANico=0A =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Wedne
sday, July 25, 2007 5:54 PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: R
e: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0ACheers back at you big guy!=0ABy
the way, has anyone seen an itenerary for the fly-in?=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A
205/492-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: W J R HAMILTON <
wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed
nesday, July 25, 2007 6:51:39 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Ba
lance=0A=0ADonnie,=0ALikewise.=0ACheers,=0ABill Hamilton=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAt 05:39 AM 25/07/2007, you wrote:=0ADonn
ie,=0AI would like a copy in lbs and inches also.=0AThanks =0AJim Addington
=0AN444BD=0A =0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:ow
ner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve at Col-East=0AS
ent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:10 AM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0A
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0ADonnie,=0A =0AThat spre
adsheet was sent courtesy of David down-under. I'll send the copy I receive
d to your Yahoo mail. I'm tweaking it to read in lbs and inches...... If yo
u want one when I'm done I'll send it along.....=0A =0ASteve=0A----- Origin
al Message ----- =0AFrom: Donnie Rose =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:57 AM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: We
ight & Balance=0A =0AHey Steve, can you please re-send, I didn't get the at
tachment.=0AThanks,=0AN69PT=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A =0A---
-- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>=0ATo
: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 5:35:47 AM
=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0ADavid,=0A =0AThe attachm
ent worked fine. This is a really nice sheet! I probably wouldn't have buil
t the graphics on my own, so I'm glad to have them. Thanks for sharing it..
.....=0A =0AI look forward to getting Gordon's work so I can rejigger it fo
r our use here.=0A =0AThanks guys,=0A =0ASteve=0A----- Original Message ---
-- =0AFrom: David Fitzgerald =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: T
hursday, July 19, 2007 12:04 AM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Bal
ance=0A =0AI don=A2t know if attachments work but this is a homemade one=0A
=0ACheers=0A =0A =0A =0ADr David Fitzgerald=0ABMedSci(Hons) MBBS(Hons) ACC
AM DipAvMed(Otago)=0ACASA Medical Officer=0ADesignated Aviation Medical Exa
miner and Commercial Pilot, Tasair=0AZinifex Hobart Smelter and Rosebery Mi
ne Medical Officer=0ARegistrar in Occupational Medicine=0ADavidFitzgerald@b
igpond.com=0Amob 0438 312973=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.
com [ mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie
Rose=0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:58 PM=0ATo: commander-list@matronic
s.com=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0AWCG, I lok fwd
to seeing the sheets!=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Ori
ginal Message ----=0AFrom: "cloudcraft(at)aol.com" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>=0ATo:
commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:13:51 PM=0A
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0ASteve,=0AWhen I was at Inte
r Island Air, I developed an (almost) "one sheet does all" Weight & Balance
/ Manifest/ Dispatch sheet for FAR 135 purposes.=0AIt is not a spread shee
t but the arms are there and one can do simple math on the go -- and have t
he C.G. envelope tables right there.=0AI'm on a trip for a few days; when I
get home I'll upload the template for the 500 A/B/U/S.=0AWing Commander Go
rdon=0A =0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Steve at Col-East <steve2
(at)sover.net>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 1:2
4 pm=0ASubject: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A--> Commander-List messa
ge posted by: "Steve at Col-East" =0A =0AFolks, =0A =0AB
efore I go and reinvent the wheel, has anyone built a 500 series, or Comman
der specific spreadsheet I can adapt? =0A =0AIf not, a good gen eric sheet
would work just fine as a beginning point. I'll compare the end results wit
h numerous loading scenarios we have calculated. =0A =0ASteve =0A =0A =0A
=0AJoin our Network=0AResearch Panel=0Atoday!=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A =0Avigator?Commander-List" target=_blank=0Arel=nofollo
w>http://www.matronicsums.matronics.com/"=0Atarget=_blank=0Arel=nofollo
w>http://forums.matronics.===============0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0AFussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com =
========== =0A =0ACONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
=0AW.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Servi
ces and Warbirds.Net. & @Gmail.com> This message is intended for and should only be used by the add
ressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.I
f you are not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosure or cop
ying of this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privi
lege attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of the
mistaken delivery. =0AIf you have received this message in error, please n
otify us immediately to: Australia 61 (0)408 876 526=0ADolores capitis non
fero. Eos do.=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
Commander=======0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A6/*http://travel.yahoo.com/;_
ylc=X3oDMTFhN2hucjlpBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BHBvcwM1BHNlYwNncm91cHMEc2xrA2VtYWlsL
W5jbQ--">Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. =0A =0A =0A
=0A mobile search=0A =0Athat gives answers, not web links. =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0Aigator?Commander-List" target=_blank rel=nofollow>htt
p://www.matronics.ums.matronics.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http:/
/forums.matronics.===============0A =0A =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0ABoardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! =0Aroddesc?gamekey=monopolyh
erenow">Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's upd=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
======0A=0A=0A =0A_________________________________________
___________________________________________=0ATake the Internet to Go: Yaho
o!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. =0Ahttp:/
/mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TCFG membership |
Nico, type = 500B=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A-----
Original Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>=0ATo: com
mander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:22:44 AM=0ASub
ject: Commander-List: TCFG membership=0A=0A=0AI forwarded your request for
membership directly to Jim, Donnie. =0A =0ACould you give me more info abou
t the empty seats, I would like to put it up on the website if you are OK w
ith that. If your seats are filled, we can take it off again.=0A =0AHelpful
info would be type of aircraft, number of seats, from which airfield would
you be departing and time of departure; when you would be returning with t
ime; and finally the matter of cost contribution.=0A =0AThanks=0A =0ANico
=0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [ma
ilto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0A
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:39 AM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0A
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0A???=0A =0ADonnie Rose
=0A205/492-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nic
o(at)cybersuperstore.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday
, July 25, 2007 11:58:42 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
=0AJim Metzger (Capt Jimbob) will pick this up and take care of it for you.
=0ANico=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
=0ASent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:10 PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.co
m=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0AHey Nico, I was abo
ut to register but it has a slot for "member", how do I become one?=0ABy th
e way, I will have empty seats if anyone needs a ride.=0A =0ADonnie Rose
=0A205/492-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nic
o(at)cybersuperstore.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday
, July 25, 2007 8:17:13 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
=0ACheck it out on the website, Donnie.=0A =0Awww.aerocommander.com=0A =0AN
ico=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mai
lto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0AS
ent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 5:54 PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0A
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0ACheers back at you big
guy!=0ABy the way, has anyone seen an itenerary for the fly-in?=0A =0ADonni
e Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: W J R
HAMILTON =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:51:39 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List:
Weight & Balance=0A=0ADonnie,=0ALikewise.=0ACheers,=0ABill Hamilton=0A=0A<
wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAt 05:39 AM 25/07/2007, you w
rote:=0ADonnie,=0AI would like a copy in lbs and inches also.=0AThanks =0AJ
im Addington=0AN444BD=0A =0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[ mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve at
Col-East=0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:10 AM=0ATo: commander-list@matr
onics.com=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0ADonnie,=0A
=0AThat spreadsheet was sent courtesy of David down-under. I'll send the co
py I received to your Yahoo mail. I'm tweaking it to read in lbs and inches
...... If you want one when I'm done I'll send it along.....=0A =0ASteve=0A
----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Donnie Rose =0ATo: commander-list@mat
ronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:57 AM=0ASubject: Re: Command
er-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0AHey Steve, can you please re-send, I didn't
get the attachment.=0AThanks,=0AN69PT=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A
=0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2@sove
r.net>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 5
:35:47 AM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0ADavid,=0A =0ATh
e attachment worked fine. This is a really nice sheet! I probably wouldn't
have built the graphics on my own, so I'm glad to have them. Thanks for sha
ring it.......=0A =0AI look forward to getting Gordon's work so I can rejig
ger it for our use here.=0A =0AThanks guys,=0A =0ASteve=0A----- Original Me
ssage ----- =0AFrom: David Fitzgerald =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:04 AM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: We
ight & Balance=0A =0AI don=A2t know if attachments work but this is a homem
ade one=0A =0ACheers=0A =0A =0A =0ADr David Fitzgerald=0ABMedSci(Hons) MBBS
(Hons) ACCAM DipAvMed(Otago)=0ACASA Medical Officer=0ADesignated Aviation M
edical Examiner and Commercial Pilot, Tasair=0AZinifex Hobart Smelter and R
osebery Mine Medical Officer=0ARegistrar in Occupational Medicine=0ADavidFi
tzgerald(at)bigpond.com=0Amob 0438 312973=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server@
matronics.com [ mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:58 PM=0ATo: commander-lis
t(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0AWCG,
I lok fwd to seeing the sheets!=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "cloudcraft(at)aol.com" <cloudcraft@aol
.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9
:13:51 PM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0ASteve,=0AWhen I
was at Inter Island Air, I developed an (almost) "one sheet does all" Weig
ht & Balance / Manifest/ Dispatch sheet for FAR 135 purposes.=0AIt is not a
spread sheet but the arms are there and one can do simple math on the go -
- and have the C.G. envelope tables right there.=0AI'm on a trip for a few
days; when I get home I'll upload the template for the 500 A/B/U/S.=0AWing
Commander Gordon=0A =0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Steve at Col-
East =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, 18
Jul 2007 1:24 pm=0ASubject: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A--> Commande
r-List message posted by: "Steve at Col-East" =0A =0AFol
ks, =0A =0ABefore I go and reinvent the wheel, has anyone built a 500 serie
s, or Commander specific spreadsheet I can adapt? =0A =0AIf not, a good gen
eric sheet would work just fine as a beginning point. I'll compare the end
results with numerous loading scenarios we have calculated. =0A =0ASteve
=0A =0A =0A =0AJoin our Network=0AResearch Panel=0Atoday!=0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0Avigator?Commander-List" target=_blank=0Ar
el=nofollow>http://www.matronicsums.matronics.com/"=0Atarget=_blank=0Ar
el=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.============
===0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0AFussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perf
ect. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matron
ics.com =========== =0A =0ACONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEG
E NOTICE =0AW.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Inter
net Services and Warbirds.Net. & This message is intended for and should only be used b
y the addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged info
rmation.If you are not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosu
re or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and le
gal privilege attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reas
on of the mistaken delivery. =0AIf you have received this message in error,
please notify us immediately to: Australia 61 (0)408 876 526=0ADolores cap
itis non fero. Eos do.=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Commander=======0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A6/*http://travel.yah
oo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFhN2hucjlpBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BHBvcwM1BHNlYwNncm91cHMEc2xr
A2VtYWlsLW5jbQ--">Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. =0A
=0A =0A =0A mobile search=0A =0Athat gives answers, not web links. =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0Aigator?Commander-List" target=_blank rel=no
follow>http://www.matronics.ums.matronics.com/" target=_blank rel=nofol
low>http://forums.matronics.===============0A
=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0ABoardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! =0Aroddesc?gamekey=m
onopolyherenow">Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's upd=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A
=========0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________
____________________________________________________Ready for the edge of y
.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Donnie,
Your information has been posted to the website www.aerocommander.com
<http://www.aerocommander.com/> . Thank you very much. Please check that
I
got it right and if something is amiss, please let me know.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie
Rose
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: TCFG membership
Afternoon Nico, info as of now:
# of seats = 3-4
Departure = EKY (Bessemer, AL.-Birmingham area)
Dep date = 20th- AM
Ret date = 23- 24th AM
Contribution = # in plane / fuel & oil costs
The above dates are flexible.
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:22:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: TCFG membership
I forwarded your request for membership directly to Jim, Donnie.
Could you give me more info about the empty seats, I would like to put
it up
on the website if you are OK with that. If your seats are filled, we can
take it off again.
Helpful info would be type of aircraft, number of seats, from which
airfield
would you be departing and time of departure; when you would be
returning
with time; and finally the matter of cost contribution.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie
Rose
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
???
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:58:42 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
Jim Metzger (Capt Jimbob) will pick this up and take care of it for you.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie
Rose
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
Hey Nico, I was about to register but it has a slot for "member", how do
I
become one?
By the way, I will have empty seats if anyone needs a ride.
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:17:13 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
Check it out on the website, Donnie.
www.aerocommander.com <http://www.aerocommander.com/>
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie
Rose
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
Cheers back at you big guy!
By the way, has anyone seen an itenerary for the fly-in?
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:51:39 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
Donnie,
Likewise.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 05:39 AM 25/07/2007, you wrote:
Donnie,
I would like a copy in lbs and inches also.
Thanks
Jim Addington
N444BD
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve at
Col-East
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
Donnie,
That spreadsheet was sent courtesy of David down-under. I'll send the
copy I
received to your Yahoo mail. I'm tweaking it to read in lbs and
inches......
If you want one when I'm done I'll send it along.....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Donnie Rose <mailto:aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
Hey Steve, can you please re-send, I didn't get the attachment.
Thanks,
N69PT
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 5:35:47 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
David,
The attachment worked fine. This is a really nice sheet! I probably
wouldn't
have built the graphics on my own, so I'm glad to have them. Thanks for
sharing it.......
I look forward to getting Gordon's work so I can rejigger it for our use
here.
Thanks guys,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: David Fitzgerald <mailto:DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:04 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
I don=A2t know if attachments work but this is a homemade one
Cheers
Dr David Fitzgerald
BMedSci(Hons) MBBS(Hons) ACCAM DipAvMed(Otago)
CASA Medical Officer
Designated Aviation Medical Examiner and Commercial Pilot, Tasair
Zinifex Hobart Smelter and Rosebery Mine Medical Officer
Registrar in Occupational Medicine
DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com
mob 0438 312973
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie
Rose
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
WCG, I lok fwd to seeing the sheets!
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: "cloudcraft(at)aol.com" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:13:51 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
Steve,
When I was at Inter Island Air, I developed an (almost) "one sheet does
all"
Weight & Balance / Manifest/ Dispatch sheet for FAR 135 purposes.
It is not a spread sheet but the arms are there and one can do simple
math
on the go -- and have the C.G. envelope tables right there.
I'm on a trip for a few days; when I get home I'll upload the template
for
the 500 A/B/U/S.
Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve at Col-East <steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 1:24 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Weight & Balance
Folks,
Before I go and reinvent the wheel, has anyone built a 500 series, or
Commander specific spreadsheet I can adapt?
If not, a good gen eric sheet would work just fine as a beginning point.
I'll compare the end results with numerous loading scenarios we have
calculated.
Steve
Join our Network
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TCFG membership |
Everything is 5 by 5 Nico=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A
----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>=0AT
o: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:07:20 PM
=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: TCFG membership=0A=0A=0ADonnie,=0AYour info
rmation has been posted to the website www.aerocommander.com. Thank you ver
y much. Please check that I got it right and if something is amiss, please
let me know.=0AThanks=0ANico=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-
server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:21 PM=0ATo: comman
der-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: TCFG membership=0A
=0AAfternoon Nico, info as of now:=0A# of seats = 3-4=0ADeparture = EKY
( Bessemer , AL.-Birmingham area)=0ADep date = 20th- AM=0ARet date = 2
3- 24th AM=0AContribution = # in plane / fuel & oil costs=0A =0AThe above
dates are flexible.=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Orig
inal Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>=0ATo: command
er-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:22:44 AM=0ASubject
: Commander-List: TCFG membership=0AI forwarded your request for membership
directly to Jim, Donnie. =0A =0ACould you give me more info about the empt
y seats, I would like to put it up on the website if you are OK with that.
If your seats are filled, we can take it off again.=0A =0AHelpful info woul
d be type of aircraft, number of seats, from which airfield would you be de
parting and time of departure; when you would be returning with time; and f
inally the matter of cost contribution.=0A =0AThanks=0A =0ANico=0A =0A =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-c
ommander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Thursd
ay, July 26, 2007 7:39 AM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re:
Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0A???=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-84
44=0A =0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nico@cybersupers
tore.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, July 25, 20
07 11:58:42 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0AJim Metzge
r (Capt Jimbob) will pick this up and take care of it for you.=0ANico=0A
=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:own
er-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: We
dnesday, July 25, 2007 7:10 PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject
: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0AHey Nico, I was about to regis
ter but it has a slot for "member", how do I become one?=0ABy the way, I wi
ll have empty seats if anyone needs a ride.=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-84
44=0A =0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: nico css <nico@cybersupers
tore.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, July 25, 20
07 8:17:13 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0ACheck it ou
t on the website, Donnie.=0A =0Awww.aerocommander.com=0A =0ANico=0A =0A =0A
=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-comm
ander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Wednesday
, July 25, 2007 5:54 PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: C
ommander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0ACheers back at you big guy!=0ABy the
way, has anyone seen an itenerary for the fly-in?=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/
492-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: W J R HAMILTON <wjrh
amilton(at)optusnet.com.au>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesd
ay, July 25, 2007 6:51:39 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balanc
e=0A=0ADonnie,=0ALikewise.=0ACheers,=0ABill Hamilton=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAt 05:39 AM 25/07/2007, you wrote:=0ADonnie,
=0AI would like a copy in lbs and inches also.=0AThanks =0AJim Addington=0A
N444BD=0A =0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:owner
-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve at Col-East=0ASent
: Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:10 AM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASub
ject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0ADonnie,=0A =0AThat spreads
heet was sent courtesy of David down-under. I'll send the copy I received t
o your Yahoo mail. I'm tweaking it to read in lbs and inches...... If you w
ant one when I'm done I'll send it along.....=0A =0ASteve=0A----- Original
Message ----- =0AFrom: Donnie Rose =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com =0AS
ent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:57 AM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight
& Balance=0A =0AHey Steve, can you please re-send, I didn't get the attach
ment.=0AThanks,=0AN69PT=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A =0A----- O
riginal Message ----=0AFrom: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>=0ATo: co
mmander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 5:35:47 AM=0ASub
ject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0ADavid,=0A =0AThe attachment wo
rked fine. This is a really nice sheet! I probably wouldn't have built the
graphics on my own, so I'm glad to have them. Thanks for sharing it.......
=0A =0AI look forward to getting Gordon's work so I can rejigger it for our
use here.=0A =0AThanks guys,=0A =0ASteve=0A----- Original Message -----
=0AFrom: David Fitzgerald =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Thur
sday, July 19, 2007 12:04 AM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Weight & Balanc
e=0A =0AI don=A2t know if attachments work but this is a homemade one=0A
=0ACheers=0A =0A =0A =0ADr David Fitzgerald=0ABMedSci(Hons) MBBS(Hons) ACCA
M DipAvMed(Otago)=0ACASA Medical Officer=0ADesignated Aviation Medical Exam
iner and Commercial Pilot, Tasair=0AZinifex Hobart Smelter and Rosebery Min
e Medical Officer=0ARegistrar in Occupational Medicine=0ADavidFitzgerald@bi
gpond.com=0Amob 0438 312973=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.c
om [ mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie
Rose=0ASent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 1:58 PM=0ATo: commander-list@matronics
.com=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A =0AWCG, I lok fwd t
o seeing the sheets!=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A =0A----- Orig
inal Message ----=0AFrom: "cloudcraft(at)aol.com" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>=0ATo: c
ommander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:13:51 PM=0AS
ubject: Re: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0ASteve,=0AWhen I was at Inter
Island Air, I developed an (almost) "one sheet does all" Weight & Balance
/ Manifest/ Dispatch sheet for FAR 135 purposes.=0AIt is not a spread sheet
but the arms are there and one can do simple math on the go -- and have th
e C.G. envelope tables right there.=0AI'm on a trip for a few days; when I
get home I'll upload the template for the 500 A/B/U/S.=0AWing Commander Gor
don=0A =0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Steve at Col-East <steve2@
sover.net>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 1:24
pm=0ASubject: Commander-List: Weight & Balance=0A--> Commander-List messag
e posted by: "Steve at Col-East" =0A =0AFolks, =0A =0ABe
fore I go and reinvent the wheel, has anyone built a 500 series, or Command
er specific spreadsheet I can adapt? =0A =0AIf not, a good gen eric sheet w
ould work just fine as a beginning point. I'll compare the end results with
numerous loading scenarios we have calculated. =0A =0ASteve =0A =0A =0A
=0AJoin our Network=0AResearch Panel=0Atoday!=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A =0Avigator?Commander-List" target=_blank=0Arel=nofollo
w>http://www.matronicsums.matronics.com/"=0Atarget=_blank=0Arel=nofollo
w>http://forums.matronics.===============0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0AFussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com =
========== =0A =0ACONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
=0AW.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Servi
ces and Warbirds.Net. & @Gmail.com> This message is intended for and should only be used by the add
ressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.I
f you are not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosure or cop
ying of this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privi
lege attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of the
mistaken delivery. =0AIf you have received this message in error, please n
otify us immediately to: Australia 61 (0)408 876 526=0ADolores capitis non
fero. Eos do.=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Com
mander=======0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A6/*http://travel.yahoo.com/;_ylc
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | fore and aft loading vs. performance |
Gang,
I know in THEORY that an aft loading affects cruise and stall speeds,
and the book answer as to why.
Has anyone messed around with loading configurations and seen a real
world difference? How much?
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the envelope
in certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting could
actually pay off by increased efficiency.
Was it cmd Gordon that mentioned something about ballast a couple
threads back? What's the history on that?
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
In a message dated 27-Jul-07 06:04:40 Pacific Daylight Time, steve2(at)sover.net
writes:
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the envelope in
certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting could actually pay
off by increased efficiency.
As for the history of ballasting, as I understand it, when enhancements came
about such as the Shrike nose, 3 blade props and pilot doors, the added weight
brought the C.G. too far forward.
The factory began placing lead plates on the aft tail stringers, and that's
what's been done with pre-Shrike models when noses, doors and panel mount
avionics were put on as after market mods.
There is the anecdotal tale of Mr. RPM doing a demo for a flying missionary
group who were interested in the MR. RPM conversion of the AC-680-FL(P). They
had a high altitude / short field requirement that had to be demonstrated so
MR. RPM did the trials at Big Bear Lake ... and loaded for maximum aft C.G. to
achieve the performance needed.
Wing Commander Gordon
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | fore and aft loading vs. performance |
Steve-
When racing our T-6, we shift the CG all the way to the rear limit. This
adds a significant amount of speed vs. allowing the CG to remain where the
designers put it.
That being the case- I'd expect to see the same on any airplane's CG range..
We are currently "Weighing" the pro's/con's of the CG location on N414C when
we finally get her on the scales. So much equipment came out of the
empennage mounted racks that the CG has likely come forward some. This is a
good thing for single engine control- but a bad thing for cruise speeds..
This airplane already had 70lbs of lead ballast weight bolted to the very
tip of the tail..
Robert Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 6:03 AM
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs. performance
Gang,
I know in THEORY that an aft loading affects cruise and stall speeds, and
the book answer as to why.
Has anyone messed around with loading configurations and seen a real world
difference? How much?
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the envelope in
certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting could actually
pay off by increased efficiency.
Was it cmd Gordon that mentioned something about ballast a couple threads
back? What's the history on that?
Steve
__________ NOD32 2425 (20070727) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: TCFG membership |
Donnie, I f you have a seat left let me know. My 680 is still down for
repairs and not sure if it will be ready by fly in time. I`m just up the road in
Nashville, Tn. area Thanks Gil 615-373-5703
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
Do the Shrikes then come out of the factory with lead ballast?
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs. performance
In a message dated 27-Jul-07 06:04:40 Pacific Daylight Time,
steve2(at)sover.net writes:
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the
envelope in certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting
could actually pay off by increased efficiency.
As for the history of ballasting, as I understand it, when
enhancements came about such as the Shrike nose, 3 blade props and pilot
doors, the added weight brought the C.G. too far forward.
The factory began placing lead plates on the aft tail stringers, and
that's what's been done with pre-Shrike models when noses, doors and
panel mount avionics were put on as after market mods.
There is the anecdotal tale of Mr. RPM doing a demo for a flying
missionary group who were interested in the MR. RPM conversion of the
AC-680-FL(P). They had a high altitude / short field requirement that
had to be demonstrated so MR. RPM did the trials at Big Bear Lake ...
and loaded for maximum aft C.G. to achieve the performance needed.
Wing Commander Gordon
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
In a message dated 27-Jul-07 11:06:37 Pacific Daylight Time, steve2(at)sover.net
writes:
Do the Shrikes then come out of the factory with lead ballast?
To my knowledge, yes.
WCG
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
This stuff is good information. When I did some calcs of loading
scenarios I thought I had to be wrong..... We too have now removed most
of the stuff from the 'radio room'.
I added a line to my spreadsheet for 'ballast' and I am surprised at how
much the ship can usefully add out at the tailcone bulkhead location.
(Where we would really put it, I'm not sure.... I'd want to look at what
has been done in the past.)
We got to kick this around some, check my numbers, and decide what we
want to do. But its good to know that I'm not making this up and there
is a history of some of these aircraft using ballast.....
T-6's are up to what nowadays, 225mph or better? I've played a little
with rudder trim, and I'm pretty sure tweaking that even after a
centered ball can gain a couple knots.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: SPAM-LOW: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs.
performance
Steve-
When racing our T-6, we shift the CG all the way to the rear limit.
This adds a significant amount of speed vs. allowing the CG to remain
where the designers put it.
That being the case- I'd expect to see the same on any airplane's CG
range..
We are currently "Weighing" the pro's/con's of the CG location on
N414C when we finally get her on the scales. So much equipment came out
of the empennage mounted racks that the CG has likely come forward some.
This is a good thing for single engine control- but a bad thing for
cruise speeds.. This airplane already had 70lbs of lead ballast weight
bolted to the very tip of the tail..
Robert Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 6:03 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs.
performance
Gang,
I know in THEORY that an aft loading affects cruise and stall speeds,
and the book answer as to why.
Has anyone messed around with loading configurations and seen a real
world difference? How much?
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the envelope
in certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting could
actually pay off by increased efficiency.
Was it cmd Gordon that mentioned something about ballast a couple
threads back? What's the history on that?
Steve
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
com
__________ NOD32 2425 (20070727) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TCFG membership |
Hey Gil, as of right now there are three seats left and you are welcome, ju
st let me know.=0AN69PT=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A--
--- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com" <WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com>
=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:29:28
AM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: TCFG membership=0A=0A=0ADonnie, I f you h
ave a seat left let me know. My 680 is still down for repairs and not sure
if it will be ready by fly in time. I`m just up the road in Nashville, Tn.
area Thanks Gil 615-373-5703=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AGet a sneak peek of the al
===========0A=0A=0A =0A__________________________
__________________________________________________________=0ANeed a vacatio
n? Get great deals=0Ato amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.=0Ahttp://travel.ya
hoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
We also have the lead ballast in the tail of the 500A...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
What does SPAM LOW MEAN???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | fore and aft loading vs. performance |
David,
I was wondering about you guys. You've got the camera installation and a
Colemill conversion, if I remember right. Any idea how much lead, and
where it was put?
As for the SPAM-LOW, maybe its the list's way of telling me to quit
sending so many messages. (I'm almost done, honest.)
----- Original Message -----
From: David Owens
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs.
performance
We also have the lead ballast in the tail of the 500A...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aero Commander 560 For Sale |
| From: | "brent mueller" <aerocommander-560e(at)comcast.net> |
We are listing N224HA for Sale.
1957 Aero Commander 560E
N224HA serial #567
March 07 Annual
Anyone intererested can pm me...
Thanks
Brent - N224HA
763-717-9721
Will try and post pics soon...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125958#125958
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com> |
As a Mooney pilot lurking on big airplane lists, I can report that in my airplane,
(and from reports in the Mooney community), moving the CG back gives a couple
of knots cruise improvement. Since my E is only 2575 gross, when flying solo
I can move the CG back quite a bit just by carrying a case of oil or some
other misc. junk in the storage in the aft cabin. It does get squirrelly in pitch
at full cruise, though, and flying at aft CG at cruise without an autopilot
would be very tiring.
Phil Guziec
'65 M20E Turbo N5841Q
Chicago-GYY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
The tailcone comes off, and there it sits... appx. 80lbs I think...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
Well last weeks video was one of our guys in a T-6 on a highway.
Here is this weeks video of Joe Shepard. He was one of the Southern
Commander delegates at the Columbia fly in. He was at least a part owner,
if not the owner, of a 560F. He has moved on to bigger fuel bills.
http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?do=app.bestView&videoid=353b852b-0119-43e7-
9bf4-73c7c52b05d7
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Pressurization Control Panel |
625 S. Douglas, El Segundo, CA 90245 $B!|(B Phone: (310) 536-0100 Fax: (310)
536-0333
moe(at)rosspistons.com
Gents:
Does anyone have a schematic or information on how the Cabin Pressure
Controller works in a 680F(p)? This same unit was used in about all
pressurized Commanders (I think). This is the unit attached to the
Pressurization Control Panel (not the Barber Coleman unit in the rear).
Recently, the more cabin air leaks that have been sealed the worse the
pressurization has gotten, to the point that now the pressure differential
is only 1.5 PSI. Using a slack tube manometer and the procedure in the book
it has been determined that the problem is either (A) a leaky tube going to
the outflow valve (not likely) (B) a defective outflow valve or (C) a
defective Pressure Controller. The pressure is definitely getting out
through the outflow valve (it was checked in flight and on the ground). The
problem is that I can$B!G(Bt decide if the Pressure Controller is holding the
outflow valve open or is the problem with the outflow valve its self. It
would probably be easier to remove one of the engines than it would be to
remove the outflow valve, so the preferred method would be to check the
Cabin Pressure Controller first.
Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Folks,
The website (www.aerocommander.com <http://www.aerocommander.com/> ) now has
the Commander Tales section restored. The Submit a Story menu is still a bit
funky and the Commander Tales menu opens up empty until one of the stories
is clicked on the left hand menu. I will fix that as soon as I can.
Chris Wall's North Atlantic story still misses some pictures, so if Chris
could send them or let me know where I can find them I would gladly insert
them.
Let me know if there are anything missing or that needs fixing.
Thanks
Nico
PS. I read the stories again. Good stuff, especially the Pago Pago and Tip
of an Arrow stories.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
It is nice to see someone taking over custody of the website.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Website stories
Folks,
The website (www.aerocommander.com <http://www.aerocommander.com/> ) now has
the Commander Tales section restored. The Submit a Story menu is still a bit
funky and the Commander Tales menu opens up empty until one of the stories
is clicked on the left hand menu. I will fix that as soon as I can.
Chris Wall's North Atlantic story still misses some pictures, so if Chris
could send them or let me know where I can find them I would gladly insert
them.
Let me know if there are anything missing or that needs fixing.
Thanks
Nico
PS. I read the stories again. Good stuff, especially the Pago Pago and Tip
of an Arrow stories.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Website stories |
Thanks, Nico!
I'm glad the Aerocommander.com site is being maintained. It's an under
appreciated resource, but now that you're doing some maintenance on it, perhaps
it
will become more active ... and appreciated.
Wing Commander Gordon
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Thanks for the kind feedback.
I will chip away at the problems and see if we can make it useful.
I have so much material from so many folks that it is a shame that nobody
gets to look at it. It will take a while to get it straightened out but it
is no different with other restoration jobs.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pressurization Control Panel |
Moe Call me about this problem.
Bill Leff
937-369-3334
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
here here mason
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.comDate: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:46:17 -0400Subject: Re: C
ommander-List: Website storiesTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Thanks, Nico!
I'm glad the Aerocommander.com site is being maintained. It's an under app
reciated resource, but now that you're doing some maintenance on it, perhap
s it will become more active ... and appreciated.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: One of our own |
| From: | "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com> |
Joe was half owner of a 560F along with Crunk
and a 1/3 owner of a 520 with Crunk and Jet Paul.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126558#126558
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Mathieu" <tmathieu(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Question regarding rear bench seat brackets |
Could anyone please offer some assistance with regard to a 500S. I have
a
couple of seat brackets for the rear bench seat which need to be
replaced
during an annual. Does anyone know where I might find these brackets
please?
Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Tommy Mathieu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Question regarding rear bench seat brackets |
tm, are the brackets the ones on the back of the seat that attach to the re
ar bulkhead? mason 817-517-4977
From: tmathieu(at)MSN.COMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Commander-Li
st: Question regarding rear bench seat bracketsDate: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:59
Could anyone please offer some assistance with regard to a 500S. I have a c
ouple of seat brackets for the rear bench seat which need to be replaced du
ring an annual. Does anyone know where I might find these brackets please?
Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Tommy Mathieu
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4q7FWsVbxVvAlrFXYq7CrsUN1wJaxVo4ULcKHYof/9fpmZrgtjpgVvFLeKuxVrFXYq1ihcMCVwwJ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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
Good Morning Robert,
Since you are pondering such a "weighty" subject, are you aware that someon
e
many years ago managed to get a movable weight approved for use in a Cessna
140?
The weight was on a rail and could be cranked back and forth via a cable an
d
crank affair.
The idea was that it could be placed all the way in the rear to allow
landings on muddy fields or with heavy brake use without nosing over quite a
s
easily.
Never seemed like a thing of much use or practicality to me, but I wonder i
f
it might not be useful for those situations where extreme range or high spee
d
is important to you Commander drivers?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 7/27/2007 1:22:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Robert
writes:
We are currently =9CWeighing=9D the pro=99s/con=99s
of the CG location on N414C
when we finally get her on the scales. So much equipment came out of the
empennage mounted racks that the CG has likely come forward some. This is
a good
thing for single engine control- but a bad thing for cruise speeds
. This
airplane already had 70lbs of lead ballast weight bolted to the very tip of
the tail.
Robert Randazzo
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL a
t
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | fore and aft loading vs. performance |
you might check with gary @ commander aero. i know they have had experience
with updating equipment in the commander line and in doing so delt with th
e w & b problems presented by that action. mason
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.comDate: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:15:06 -0400Subject: Re: Comm
ander-List: fore and aft loading vs. performanceTo: commander-list@matronic
s.com
Good Morning Robert,
Since you are pondering such a "weighty" subject, are you aware that someon
e many years ago managed to get a movable weight approved for use in a Cess
na 140?
The weight was on a rail and could be cranked back and forth via a cable an
d crank affair.
The idea was that it could be placed all the way in the rear to allow landi
ngs on muddy fields or with heavy brake use without nosing over quite as ea
sily.
Never seemed like a thing of much use or practicality to me, but I wonder i
f it might not be useful for those situations where extreme range or high s
peed is important to you Commander drivers?
Happy Skies,Old BobAKABob SiegfriedAncient AviatorStearman N3977ABrookeridg
e Air Park LL22Downers Grove, IL 60516630 985-8503
In a message dated 7/27/2007 1:22:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Robert wri
tes:
We are currently =93Weighing=94 the pro=92s/con=92s of the CG location on N
414C when we finally get her on the scales. So much equipment came out of
the empennage mounted racks that the CG has likely come forward some. This
is a good thing for single engine control- but a bad thing for cruise spee
ds=85. This airplane already had 70lbs of lead ballast weight bolted to th
e very tip of the tail=85.
Robert Randazzo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Folks,
Many TCFG Members and Commander fans around the world will have met or know
Mr Steve Nott, Principal of General Aviation Maintenance (GAM).
Many will know that Steve has amassed the largest fleet of Commanders in the
Southern Hemisphere over the past 25 years and a couple of years ago
completed the only Grand Renaissance conversion in the Southern Hemisphere
(and outside the USA) on a 690A. Steve for many years has operated
Commanders in Australia along the same lines as John Towner out of Kansas
City MO.
Steve has more recently imported an additional number of Commanders from the
US, including the controversial New Mexico Govt 680FL N1414S and the Shrike
that Bruce Byerly flew to the 2006 TCFG Flyin.
Steve developed many STC's including the 'bubble window' and 'Oz' version of
the winglet.
Steve and I commenced our flying careers at the same time in the early '70's
at Essendon Airport and he has been a remarkable mentor and source of
information relating to Commanders. In the days when I was getting really
excited about clocking my first hours in a 560E, Steve was finishing his AME
training and wiping cowls that always seemed to trickle oil!
Those attending TCFG Flyins in the '90's will remember meeting Steve. Steve
also attended the early TCAC Universities.
It is with the greatest sadness that I need to report that Steve was killed
last night (31 July) in the crash of one of his beloved Shrike Commanders on
a short flight out of Essendon Airport, Melbourne Victoria in the strongest
winds and turbulence recorded in this region.
A huge loss to the Commander community and Oz Commander Land.
Sir Barry, please forward to JT who may not be receiving the list mail.
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch |
| From: | "Steele, Bob" <Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com> |
Russell please accept my sincerest condolences.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Russell Legg
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch
G'day Folks,
Many TCFG Members and Commander fans around the world will have met or know
Mr Steve Nott, Principal of General Aviation Maintenance (GAM).
Many will know that Steve has amassed the largest fleet of Commanders in the
Southern Hemisphere over the past 25 years and a couple of years ago
completed the only Grand Renaissance conversion in the Southern Hemisphere
(and outside the USA) on a 690A. Steve for many years has operated
Commanders in Australia along the same lines as John Towner out of Kansas
City MO.
Steve has more recently imported an additional number of Commanders from the
US, including the controversial New Mexico Govt 680FL N1414S and the Shrike
that Bruce Byerly flew to the 2006 TCFG Flyin.
Steve developed many STC's including the 'bubble window' and 'Oz' version of
the winglet.
Steve and I commenced our flying careers at the same time in the early '70's
at Essendon Airport and he has been a remarkable mentor and source of
information relating to Commanders. In the days when I was getting really
excited about clocking my first hours in a 560E, Steve was finishing his AME
training and wiping cowls that always seemed to trickle oil!
Those attending TCFG Flyins in the '90's will remember meeting Steve. Steve
also attended the early TCAC Universities.
It is with the greatest sadness that I need to report that Steve was killed
last night (31 July) in the crash of one of his beloved Shrike Commanders on
a short flight out of Essendon Airport, Melbourne Victoria in the strongest
winds and turbulence recorded in this region.
A huge loss to the Commander community and Oz Commander Land.
Sir Barry, please forward to JT who may not be receiving the list mail.
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch |
Great loss. Please be assured that we are mourning with the family and
friends who would miss Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steele, Bob
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch
Russell please accept my sincerest condolences.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Russell Legg
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch
G'day Folks,
Many TCFG Members and Commander fans around the world will have met or know
Mr Steve Nott, Principal of General Aviation Maintenance (GAM).
Many will know that Steve has amassed the largest fleet of Commanders in the
Southern Hemisphere over the past 25 years and a couple of years ago
completed the only Grand Renaissance conversion in the Southern Hemisphere
(and outside the USA) on a 690A. Steve for many years has operated
Commanders in Australia along the same lines as John Towner out of Kansas
City MO.
Steve has more recently imported an additional number of Commanders from the
US, including the controversial New Mexico Govt 680FL N1414S and the Shrike
that Bruce Byerly flew to the 2006 TCFG Flyin.
Steve developed many STC's including the 'bubble window' and 'Oz' version of
the winglet.
Steve and I commenced our flying careers at the same time in the early '70's
at Essendon Airport and he has been a remarkable mentor and source of
information relating to Commanders. In the days when I was getting really
excited about clocking my first hours in a 560E, Steve was finishing his AME
training and wiping cowls that always seemed to trickle oil!
Those attending TCFG Flyins in the '90's will remember meeting Steve. Steve
also attended the early TCAC Universities.
It is with the greatest sadness that I need to report that Steve was killed
last night (31 July) in the crash of one of his beloved Shrike Commanders on
a short flight out of Essendon Airport, Melbourne Victoria in the strongest
winds and turbulence recorded in this region.
A huge loss to the Commander community and Oz Commander Land.
Sir Barry, please forward to JT who may not be receiving the list mail.
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch |
Russell,
I want to thank you for bringing us the news about Steve Nott.
You delivered it well, my friend, and the eulogy, including his history of
contributions to the Commander world were well stated.
I think we all stand in admiration of our brothers in Australia; for being so
far away, so many innovations and even warnings (the need for ADs and SBs)
are so often generated by the attention to detail to goes along with your robust
spirit in Oz.
To lose someone of Steve Nott's caliber is tragic for the industry and it
sounds like you lost a friend and mentor and I imagine that has to haunt you.
Carry on -- and if you happen to be in a position to tell his family -- let
them know that he's missed 'round the world.
Wing Commander Gordon
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Guys,
My usual pre Fly-In plea, before booking my flights!
If anyone will be heading back home via Oklahoma City after the Fly-In
and has a seat to spare, I will really appreciate being dumped out at
Wiley Post (PWA).
I will, of course, expect to make a suitable contribution towards
carrying an extra 200lb of live cargo, plus the inevitable baggage.
No, not "her indoors", but the suitcase variety.
There's quite a good restaurant at the base of the Tower there, so I'll
also treat the other occupants to lunch.
No, not the other restaurant occupants, but the others in the Commander
;-)
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch |
Folks,
Some news about Steve Nott's accident:
http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/millionaire-killed-in-vic-plane-crash/20074
401-qs5.html
Steve was also involved in post-crash testing of a Cessna 172:
http://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au/CA256902000FE154/Lookup/Coronial_Finding
s_of_Importance/$file/Gisborne_Aircraft_Crash.pdf
Thanks
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Legg
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 5:37 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch
G'day Folks,
Many TCFG Members and Commander fans around the world will have met or know
Mr Steve Nott, Principal of General Aviation Maintenance (GAM).
Many will know that Steve has amassed the largest fleet of Commanders in the
Southern Hemisphere over the past 25 years and a couple of years ago
completed the only Grand Renaissance conversion in the Southern Hemisphere
(and outside the USA) on a 690A. Steve for many years has operated
Commanders in Australia along the same lines as John Towner out of Kansas
City MO.
Steve has more recently imported an additional number of Commanders from the
US, including the controversial New Mexico Govt 680FL N1414S and the Shrike
that Bruce Byerly flew to the 2006 TCFG Flyin.
Steve developed many STC's including the 'bubble window' and 'Oz' version of
the winglet.
Steve and I commenced our flying careers at the same time in the early '70's
at Essendon Airport and he has been a remarkable mentor and source of
information relating to Commanders. In the days when I was getting really
excited about clocking my first hours in a 560E, Steve was finishing his AME
training and wiping cowls that always seemed to trickle oil!
Those attending TCFG Flyins in the '90's will remember meeting Steve. Steve
also attended the early TCAC Universities.
It is with the greatest sadness that I need to report that Steve was killed
last night (31 July) in the crash of one of his beloved Shrike Commanders on
a short flight out of Essendon Airport, Melbourne Victoria in the strongest
winds and turbulence recorded in this region.
A huge loss to the Commander community and Oz Commander Land.
Sir Barry, please forward to JT who may not be receiving the list mail.
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | fore and aft loading vs. performance |
Bob-
I=99m not sure I=99d want such a rig on a
commander.
Can you imagine how many times you=99d rotate and wonder,
=9Chmmmm I wonder if I remembered to latch that thing in
place.=9D
KLUNK trim trim trim.
Apparently I forgot again
Robert Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs. performance
Good Morning Robert,
Since you are pondering such a "weighty" subject, are you aware that
someone many years ago managed to get a movable weight approved for use
in a Cessna 140?
The weight was on a rail and could be cranked back and forth via a cable
and crank affair.
The idea was that it could be placed all the way in the rear to allow
landings on muddy fields or with heavy brake use without nosing over
quite as easily.
Never seemed like a thing of much use or practicality to me, but I
wonder if it might not be useful for those situations where extreme
range or high speed is important to you Commander drivers?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 7/27/2007 1:22:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Robert
writes:
We are currently =9CWeighing=9D the
pro=99s/con=99s of the CG location on N414C when we finally
get her on the scales. So much equipment came out of the empennage
mounted racks that the CG has likely come forward some. This is a good
thing for single engine control- but a bad thing for cruise
speeds. This airplane already had 70lbs of lead ballast weight
bolted to the very tip of the tail.
Robert Randazzo
_____
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>
.
__________ NOD32 2430 (20070731) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Service Bulletin 199 |
Anyone have a copy of the weight and moment tables handy? Email, or even
a fax to Col-East would be fine. We've got the text of the bulletin in
our book of bulletins, but not the table itself. No one go to too much
trouble as Twin Commander is trying to figure out exactly what a 500A
converted to a B is supposed to be doing.
Unless its been superceded, the best and latest information I can find
is that 500B, 500S and 500U drivers should have updated their weight and
moment allowables with the tables published in 1984 Service Bulletin
199.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Folks,
Updating my recent email; the aircraft destroyed was 500S VH-YJB ex N50BA c/
n 3299.
Those of us attending the 2006 TCFG Flyin will remember this Shrike as the
one displayed by Bruce Byerly.
Many thanks to those folks who have passed on their very best to Steve's
family.
Cheers
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
bc, i will try to accomodate you this year. mason
From: barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.ukTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubjec
t: Commander-List: Fly-InDate: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:32:43 +0100
Hi Guys,
My usual pre Fly-In plea, before booking my flights!
If anyone will be heading back home via Oklahoma City after the Fly-In and
has a seat to spare, I will really appreciate being dumped out at Wiley Pos
t (PWA).
I will, of course, expect to make a suitable contribution towards carrying
an extra 200lb of live cargo, plus the inevitable baggage.
No, not "her indoors", but the suitcase variety.
There's quite a good restaurant at the base of the Tower there, so I'll als
o treat the other occupants to lunch.
No, not the other restaurant occupants, but the others in the Commander ;-)
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Tragic Loss of Oz Commander Patriarch |
r, here here. mason
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.comDate: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:38:06 -0400Subject: Re: Co
mmander-List: Tragic Loss of Oz Commander PatriarchTo: commander-list@matro
nics.com
Russell,
I want to thank you for bringing us the news about Steve Nott.
You delivered it well, my friend, and the eulogy, including his history of
contributions to the Commander world were well stated.
I think we all stand in admiration of our brothers in Australia; for being
so far away, so many innovations and even warnings (the need for ADs and SB
s) are so often generated by the attention to detail to goes along with you
r robust spirit in Oz.
To lose someone of Steve Nott's caliber is tragic for the industry and it s
ounds like you lost a friend and mentor and I imagine that has to haunt you
.
Carry on -- and if you happen to be in a position to tell his family -- let
them know that he's missed 'round the world.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Mason,
I think I'm all fixed up now! John Towner will be attending from Kansas
City, no doubt with his son Andrew. John has kindly offered to drop me
off on his way back home, being virtually right on his course.
I haven't booked my flights yet, but will probably arrive either at
Austin, or San Antonio on 18th or 19th September. I'll also arrange to
rent a car and drive to Fredericksburg. I will then have a day or two to
get accustomed to rather hotter weather than we're used to over here and
take the opportunity to have a look round at a few airfields before the
attendees start arriving on the 20th.
So, I'll look forward to seeing you there!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fly-In
bc, i will try to accomodate you this year. mason
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Fly-In
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:32:43 +0100
Hi Guys,
My usual pre Fly-In plea, before booking my flights!
If anyone will be heading back home via Oklahoma City after the
Fly-In and has a seat to spare, I will really appreciate being dumped
out at Wiley Post (PWA).
I will, of course, expect to make a suitable contribution towards
carrying an extra 200lb of live cargo, plus the inevitable baggage.
No, not "her indoors", but the suitcase variety.
There's quite a good restaurant at the base of the Tower there, so
I'll also treat the other occupants to lunch.
No, not the other restaurant occupants, but the others in the
Commander ;-)
Very Best Regards,
Barry
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
p://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
In a message dated 8/2/2007 1:23:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:
Bob-
I=99m not sure I=99d want such a rig on a commander.
Can you imagine how many times you=99d rotate and wonder, =9Chm
mmm I wonder
if I remembered to latch that thing in place.=9D
KLUNK trim trim trim.
Apparently I forgot again
Robert Randazzo
Hey! I'm with you. I never had one in a 140 either.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
t
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VH-YJB/N50BA |
We are sorry for your loss. Hope to meet all you folks at the fly in... Just
hung a new engine on the right side, and actually going to fly it in about
20 min... We'll see from there how it goes...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Hi Gang,
Just a friendly reminder that if you are planning to stay at the Hangar Hotel for the Fly-In reservations need to be made with the hotel no later than August 20th to get the group rate.? Rooms are starting to book up so need to get yours reserved. Hotel and Car rental contact information can be found at www.aerocommander.com.? Registration forms are also on the website.?
Look forward to seeing everyone.?
jb
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
jm, if there is anything i can do to help let me know. mason
reminder that if you are planning to stay at the Hangar Hotel for the Fly-
In reservations need to be made with the hotel no later than August 20th to
get the group rate. Rooms are starting to book up so need to get yours re
served. Hotel and Car rental contact information can be found at www.aeroco
mmander.com. Registration forms are also on the website. Look forward to
seeing everyone. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Hello all,
Somewhere recently I managed to misplace my kneeboard-sized laminated normal &
emergency procedures checklists for my 500-B. Rather than start over from scratch,
I'm wondering if anyone has 500-B checklist documents in MS Word or similar
format that they could share?
Thanks in advance,
/John
N353CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127624#127624
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
John,
I made this up several years ago now.....
Please carefully go through this to see that it meets your needs before
using......
If nothing else, it might save you some time typing if you make your own.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 5:15 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
>
> Hello all,
>
> Somewhere recently I managed to misplace my kneeboard-sized laminated
> normal & emergency procedures checklists for my 500-B. Rather than start
> over from scratch, I'm wondering if anyone has 500-B checklist documents
> in MS Word or similar format that they could share?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> /John
> N353CC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127624#127624
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
P.S.
Check out each of the pages (sheets). Lots of goodies.....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
> John,
>
> I made this up several years ago now.....
>
> Please carefully go through this to see that it meets your needs before
> using......
>
> If nothing else, it might save you some time typing if you make your own.
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 5:15 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
>
>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Somewhere recently I managed to misplace my kneeboard-sized laminated
>> normal & emergency procedures checklists for my 500-B. Rather than start
>> over from scratch, I'm wondering if anyone has 500-B checklist documents
>> in MS Word or similar format that they could share?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> /John
>> N353CC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127624#127624
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
Steve,
That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making it
public.
Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the factory writes
them.
If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching a bunch
of guys to fly Commanders:
The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before engine
start.
You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder locks in.
Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from Carlsbad, CA to
Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate doing the control check before
the seat belt is fastened!
Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is very
important.
It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way down.
Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible if the gear selector
is
in the full down detent.
I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may have all
kinds of things you do internally to address the above ideas -- but anyone who
is
new to the airplane and going to use Steve's checklist might want to make a
few edits while you go thought the "training wheel" phase of adapting to a
Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Pressurization Control Panel |
Hi Bill,
Using your suggestion, I taped off the two static ports by the pilot's
window & copilot's window and pressurized on the ground, and sure enough the
maximum differential that I could get was 1.5, which is the same that I got
with the static ports not taped. When the outflow valve was blocked off the
pressure went up to 2.8 quickly, regardless of whether the static ports were
taped off or not.
It appears that it is time to replace the outflow valve.
Thanks very much for the helpful advice the other day on the phone. I
certainly do appreciate it.
Best regards,
Moe Mills
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pressurization Control Panel
Moe Call me about this problem.
Bill Leff
937-369-3334
_____
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my
'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based on the
very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the tables from SB
199 to make sure it is following the latest update.
Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in the
pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I did not
have it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have used something
that grew from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F) check, for Boost,
Lights, Latch, Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps, Fuel, Free (and
correct)), before asking if everybody is belted in, secure (door) and
ready to go.
Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-around
situation, you've made things a little more complicated to get cleaned
up. Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin would only require
a second more.......
By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out to
fit on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a little
book that could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to the
appropriate page....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Steve,
That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making
it public.
Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the factory
writes them.
If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching a
bunch of guys to fly Commanders:
The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before
engine start.
You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder locks
in. Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from
Carlsbad, CA to Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate doing
the control check before the seat belt is fastened!
Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is very
important.
It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way
down. Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible if
the gear selector is in the full down detent.
I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may have
all kinds of things you do internally to address the above ideas -- but
anyone who is new to the airplane and going to use Steve's checklist
might want to make a few edits while you go thought the "training wheel"
phase of adapting to a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
Gordon makes a good observation about the external rudder lock.
I am looking at a 680 and it was pointed out that the 680 has an
external down lock gear pin on each landing gear that must be pulled
just prior to engine start.
This would need to be added to a post shut down list, put down lock
pin in and gust lock in Rudder with rubber chicken attached. ;)
Where I am flying, they have an external walk around check list that
we need to complete.
Is there one for a Twin Commander?
I was tough to pull the gust rudder lock as part of my walk around,
but I never saw a check list.
Since this list is on an Excel spread sheet, it can be modified to
fit each aircraft.
Can we get it posted on the web site?
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Steve at Col-East wrote:
> Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my
> 'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based
> on the very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the
> tables from SB 199 to make sure it is following the latest update.
>
> Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in
> the pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I
> did not have it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have
> used something that grew from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F)
> check, for Boost, Lights, Latch, Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps,
> Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking if everybody is belted in,
> secure (door) and ready to go.
>
> Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-
> around situation, you've made things a little more complicated to
> get cleaned up. Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin
> would only require a second more.......
>
>
> By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out
> to fit on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a
> little book that could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to
> the appropriate page....
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
>
> Steve,
>
> That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for
> making it public.
>
> Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the
> factory writes them.
>
> If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching
> a bunch of guys to fly Commanders:
>
> The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before
> engine start.
> You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder
> locks in. Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew
> from Carlsbad, CA to Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I
> advocate doing the control check before the seat belt is fastened!
>
> Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is
> very important.
> It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way
> down. Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible
> if the gear selector is in the full down detent.
>
> I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may
> have all kinds of things you do internally to address the above
> ideas -- but anyone who is new to the airplane and going to use
> Steve's checklist might want to make a few edits while you go
> thought the "training wheel" phase of adapting to a Commander.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
> AOL.com.
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
In a message dated 06-Aug-07 07:18:06 Pacific Daylight Time, steve2(at)sover.net
writes:
I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of anything.
Yo ho! You are so right, Steve!
Checklists are always a work in progress. And, you can produce what you
think is the perfect checklist after a lifetime of edits and tweaking and the
first person you show it to will look at it and say it's worthless.
Then there's the problem of your checklist being found at the bottom of a
crater with a wrecked airplane on top of it ... You'll probably hear from the
bereaved widow's attorney.
As to the safety latch on the landing gear: your comment is always everyone's
first reaction to the idea of safetying the gear upon extension.
It is my belief that it's a simple thing to flick out of the way on a
go-around or missed approach. But then again, I used to play flamenco guitar and
can use my right hand pinkie and ring finger to move the latch while holding the
gear handle with my thumb, index and middle finger. Ole! ;-)
If the 3/4 of a second it takes to unsafety the gear is the difference
between a successful go-around, are you really in position to make a go-around?
There are two distinct camps on this issue and now you know where my tent is
pitched. I rather flick (or fumble with) the gear safety, then to have a nose
wheel fold back on landing.
Wing Commander Gordon
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
Tylor,
Please explain about the external down lock gear lock pins on each landing
gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start. I don't think that my
680F(p) has such a device.
Thanx!
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Gordon makes a good observation about the external rudder lock.
I am looking at a 680 and it was pointed out that the 680 has an external
down lock gear pin on each landing gear that must be pulled just prior to
engine start.
This would need to be added to a post shut down list, put down lock pin in
and gust lock in Rudder with rubber chicken attached. ;)
Where I am flying, they have an external walk around check list that we need
to complete.
Is there one for a Twin Commander?
I was tough to pull the gust rudder lock as part of my walk around, but I
never saw a check list.
Since this list is on an Excel spread sheet, it can be modified to fit each
aircraft.
Can we get it posted on the web site?
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Steve at Col-East wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my
'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based on the
very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the tables from SB 199
to make sure it is following the latest update.
Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in the
pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I did not have
it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have used something that grew
from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F) check, for Boost, Lights, Latch,
Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps, Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking if
everybody is belted in, secure (door) and ready to go.
Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-around
situation, you've made things a little more complicated to get cleaned up.
Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin would only require a
second more.......
By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out to fit
on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a little book that
could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to the appropriate page....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Steve,
That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making it
public.
Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the factory writes
them.
If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching a bunch
of guys to fly Commanders:
The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before engine
start.
You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder locks in.
Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from Carlsbad, CA to
Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate doing the control check
before the seat belt is fastened!
Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is very
important.
It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way down.
Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible if the gear
selector is in the full down detent.
I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may have all
kinds of things you do internally to address the above ideas -- but anyone
who is new to the airplane and going to use Steve's checklist might want to
make a few edits while you go thought the "training wheel" phase of adapting
to a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
Steve,
You start the No.2 engine first and check the No.2 hydraulic pump, on
shut
down shouldn't you shut down the No. 2 first to check the No.1 hyd pump?
Very well thought out check list and one of the best I have seen.
Kindest regards,
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve at
Col-East
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my
'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based on the
very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the tables from SB
199
to make sure it is following the latest update.
Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in the
pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I did not
have
it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have used something that
grew
from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F) check, for Boost, Lights,
Latch,
Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps, Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking
if
everybody is belted in, secure (door) and ready to go.
Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-around
situation, you've made things a little more complicated to get cleaned
up.
Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin would only require a
second more.......
By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out to
fit
on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a little book
that
could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to the appropriate page....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Steve,
That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making it
public.
Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the factory
writes
them.
If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching a
bunch
of guys to fly Commanders:
The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before engine
start.
You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder locks in.
Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from Carlsbad, CA
to
Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate doing the control
check
before the seat belt is fastened!
Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is very
important.
It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way down.
Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible if the gear
selector is in the full down detent.
I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may have all
kinds of things you do internally to address the above ideas -- but
anyone
who is new to the airplane and going to use Steve's checklist might want
to
make a few edits while you go thought the "training wheel" phase of
adapting
to a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Not an urban legend, but the accident occurred at sac exec. It was a
(lawyer owned) Baron 58, which flipped on take off, killing the sole
occupant. NTSB found the control lock still in place. The design of
the Baron (and Bonanza) dual yoke makes it hard to see from the
operating position, but if the gentleman had checked for clear controls
before trusting in them he would be alive today.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Steve,
That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making it
public.
Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the factory
writes them.
If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching a
bunch of guys to fly Commanders:
The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before engine
start.
You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder
locks in. Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from
Carlsbad, CA to Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate doing
the control check before the seat belt is fastened!
Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is very
important.
It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way
down. Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible if
the gear selector is in the full down detent.
I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may have all
kinds of things you do internally to address the above ideas -- but
anyone who is new to the airplane and going to use Steve's checklist
might want to make a few edits while you go thought the "training wheel"
phase of adapting to a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
Moe,
This pin is on the older 680, with the bath tub. The landing gear
does not rotate when it retracts. The owner explained that if the
hydraulic pressure bleeds off, the budge cord may not keep the gear
down when the aircraft is towed. The older style does not have the
nitrogen cylinder on the gear.
He had two pins with flags on them for the gear.
On the older 680, you would need to add, pump the hydraulic up to
1000 psi prior to start. Originally the 560 and 680 only had one
engine with Hydraulic pump. You could start up and not have breaks.
The 680 I am looking at, has the dual hydraulic pumps.
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 9:17 AM, Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
> Tylor,
>
>
> Please explain about the external down lock gear lock pins on each
> landing gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start. I
> don=92t think that my 680F(p) has such a device.
>
>
> Thanx!
>
>
> Moe
>
> N680RR
>
> 680F(p)
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:51 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
>
>
> Gordon makes a good observation about the external rudder lock.
>
> I am looking at a 680 and it was pointed out that the 680 has an
> external down lock gear pin on each landing gear that must be
> pulled just prior to engine start.
>
>
> This would need to be added to a post shut down list, put down lock
> pin in and gust lock in Rudder with rubber chicken attached. ;)
>
>
> Where I am flying, they have an external walk around check list
> that we need to complete.
>
> Is there one for a Twin Commander?
>
>
> I was tough to pull the gust rudder lock as part of my walk around,
> but I never saw a check list.
>
>
> Since this list is on an Excel spread sheet, it can be modified to
> fit each aircraft.
>
>
> Can we get it posted on the web site?
>
>
> Tylor Hall
>
>
> On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Steve at Col-East wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my
> 'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based
> on the very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the
> tables from SB 199 to make sure it is following the latest update.
>
> Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in
> the pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I
> did not have it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have
> used something that grew from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F)
> check, for Boost, Lights, Latch, Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps,
> Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking if everybody is belted in,
> secure (door) and ready to go.
>
> Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-
> around situation, you've made things a little more complicated to
> get cleaned up. Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin
> would only require a second more.......
>
> By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out
> to fit on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a
> little book that could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to
> the appropriate page....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:26 AM
>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
>
>
> Steve,
>
> That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making
> it public.
>
> Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the
> factory writes them.
>
> If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching
> a bunch of guys to fly Commanders:
>
> The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before
> engine start.
>
> You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder
> locks in. Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from
> Carlsbad, CA to Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate
> doing the control check before the seat belt is fastened!
>
> Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is
> very important.
>
> It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way
> down. Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible
> if the gear selector is in the full down detent.
>
> I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may
> have all kinds of things you do internally to address the above
> ideas -- but anyone who is new to the airplane and going to use
> Steve's checklist might want to make a few edits while you go
> thought the "training wheel" phase of adapting to a Commander.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
> AOL.com.
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
Matronics
> ========================
> ========================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | July 2000 Article, Commander Landing Gear Control |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Can anybody recommend a good aircraft appraiser in the |
Seattle Area?
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Or near, or would fly out if needs be .... For the 520 damage (it's a
total officially, BTW).
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
Tylor,
Thanks for clarifying that this feature is on the older 680 models..there
for a minute I thought that I had completely lost it.
Regards,
Moe
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Moe,
This pin is on the older 680, with the bath tub. The landing gear does not
rotate when it retracts. The owner explained that if the hydraulic pressure
bleeds off, the budge cord may not keep the gear down when the aircraft is
towed. The older style does not have the nitrogen cylinder on the gear.
He had two pins with flags on them for the gear.
On the older 680, you would need to add, pump the hydraulic up to 1000 psi
prior to start. Originally the 560 and 680 only had one engine with
Hydraulic pump. You could start up and not have breaks. The 680 I am
looking at, has the dual hydraulic pumps.
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 9:17 AM, Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
Tylor,
Please explain about the external down lock gear lock pins on each landing
gear that must be pulled just prior to engine start. I don't think that my
680F(p) has such a device.
Thanx!
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Gordon makes a good observation about the external rudder lock.
I am looking at a 680 and it was pointed out that the 680 has an external
down lock gear pin on each landing gear that must be pulled just prior to
engine start.
This would need to be added to a post shut down list, put down lock pin in
and gust lock in Rudder with rubber chicken attached. ;)
Where I am flying, they have an external walk around check list that we need
to complete.
Is there one for a Twin Commander?
I was tough to pull the gust rudder lock as part of my walk around, but I
never saw a check list.
Since this list is on an Excel spread sheet, it can be modified to fit each
aircraft.
Can we get it posted on the web site?
Tylor Hall
On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Steve at Col-East wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I do have some misgivings about posting my
'versions' of anything. The W&B spreadsheet is one of them, based on the
very nice TasAir sheet. I am now trying to track down the tables from SB 199
to make sure it is following the latest update.
Yes of course, free and correct. I have added it to the sheet in the
pre-start column. It was always in my 'personal' routine, but I did not have
it in the sheet. Prior to entering a runway I have used something that grew
from a 'BLT' check. A (B L L T T T F F F) check, for Boost, Lights, Latch,
Trim, Transponder, Time, Flaps, Fuel, Free (and correct)), before asking if
everybody is belted in, secure (door) and ready to go.
Now the pin I was not as sure about. My thinking was that in a go-around
situation, you've made things a little more complicated to get cleaned up.
Is that over-thinking it too much? moving the pin would only require a
second more.......
By the way, the spreadsheet was made so that each sheet printed out to fit
on a small sheet of stock so that each of the sheets made a little book that
could be laminated and carried.... Just flip to the appropriate page....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:CloudCraft(at)aol.com> CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
Steve,
That's an excellent check list. Nice work, and thank you for making it
public.
Checklists are very personal, and should be, despite how the factory writes
them.
If you'll allow me a couple of observations that come from teaching a bunch
of guys to fly Commanders:
The flight control "free and correct" check should happen before engine
start.
You have no idea how many times guys have left external rudder locks in.
Urban legend has it that one pilot took off and flew from Carlsbad, CA to
Sacramento (area) with it in. In fact, I advocate doing the control check
before the seat belt is fastened!
Latching the landing gear safety pin when the gear is put down is very
important.
It is possible to have the gear handle down, but not all the way down.
Moving the gear safety latch into position is only possible if the gear
selector is in the full down detent.
I'm not saying you should change your checklist because you may have all
kinds of things you do internally to address the above ideas -- but anyone
who is new to the airplane and going to use Steve's checklist might want to
make a few edits while you go thought the "training wheel" phase of adapting
to a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
href="
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href=" http://forums.matronics.com">
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space">
--> <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can anybody recommend a good aircraft appraiser in |
the Seattle Area?
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI BRUCE..
I am a certified appraiser with the Nation Aircraft Appraisers Ass. (NAAA).
=C2- I live in Washougal WA (about 40 "Commander minutes" from Seattle.
=C2- Jim Metzger 360-903-6901
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com>
Sent: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 9:33 am
Subject: Commander-List: Can anybody recommend a good aircraft appraiser in
the Seattle Area?
Or near, or would fly out if needs be . For the 520 damage (it
=99s a total officially, BTW).
=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Bruce
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-========================
-= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums!
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-========================
________________________________________________________________________
AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Can anybody recommend a good aircraft appraiser in |
the Se...
Bruce,
That's right up Capt'n JimBob's alley and right in his back yard.
Wing Commander Gordon
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Can anybody recommend a good aircraft appraiser in |
the Seattle Area?
Bruce,
Try our leader J.B.!
Moe
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Can anybody recommend a good aircraft appraiser in
the Seattle Area?
Or near, or would fly out if needs be .. For the 520 damage (it's a total
officially, BTW).
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Can anybody recommend a good aircraft appraiser in |
the Se...
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Yup. We're going to do it in about a week.
Thanx
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Can anybody recommend a good aircraft
appraiser in the Se...
Bruce,
That's right up Capt'n JimBob's alley and right in his back yard.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Can anybody recommend a good aircraft appraiser in |
the Seattle Area?
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Yup. Already set it up.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe -
Ross Racing Pistons
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Can anybody recommend a good aircraft
appraiser in the Seattle Area?
Bruce,
Try our leader J.B.!
Moe
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Can anybody recommend a good aircraft appraiser
in the Seattle Area?
Or near, or would fly out if needs be .... For the 520 damage (it's a
total officially, BTW).
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
Flamenco guitar, eh? I'd love to hear some of that. I used to have an
old cassette tape of Segovia some years back. It sounded like 3 or 4
instruments at once. I'm about a year into trying to play Viola, in
between finishing our house, building a small bakery for my wife,
pulling stumps and grading the land in back yard, and trying to rebuild
an old MG.......... And I still want to build a biplane. You know, in my
spare time.
I changed the sheet to reflect operating the pin when selecting gear
down.
Also incorporated the previous very good observation to alternate
shutdown to be opposite startup to detect problems with hydraulic and
vacuum pumps. Something I DO, but didn't have on the sheet right.
The sheets print out better, but not the way I designed it to be, on
small index cards. I'lll work on that.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
In a message dated 06-Aug-07 07:18:06 Pacific Daylight Time,
steve2(at)sover.net writes:
I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of anything.
Yo ho! You are so right, Steve!
Checklists are always a work in progress. And, you can produce what
you think is the perfect checklist after a lifetime of edits and
tweaking and the first person you show it to will look at it and say
it's worthless.
Then there's the problem of your checklist being found at the bottom
of a crater with a wrecked airplane on top of it ... You'll probably
hear from the bereaved widow's attorney.
As to the safety latch on the landing gear: your comment is always
everyone's first reaction to the idea of safetying the gear upon
extension.
It is my belief that it's a simple thing to flick out of the way on a
go-around or missed approach. But then again, I used to play flamenco
guitar and can use my right hand pinkie and ring finger to move the
latch while holding the gear handle with my thumb, index and middle
finger. Ole! ;-)
If the 3/4 of a second it takes to unsafety the gear is the difference
between a successful go-around, are you really in position to make a
go-around?
There are two distinct camps on this issue and now you know where my
tent is pitched. I rather flick (or fumble with) the gear safety, then
to have a nose wheel fold back on landing.
Wing Commander Gordon
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
Steve,
Thanks for your checklist documents! They look great, and I really
appreciate the input. I'll make sure to put PROPERTY OF STEVE @ COL-EAST
at the top of each page, so if something were to go awry, my wife will
know whom my attorney should call. (Just kiddin')
I was trained from day 1 to engage the pin latch after putting the gear
down, and I do it automatically now, without thinking, as pretty much a
single motion....lever-down-latch. In the couple of instances when the
students have backed up the pattern at my local airport (ever notice how
much faster a Commander is in the pattern than a Cessna 150, even when
flying slow?), the go-around was a non event. I also, for the neighbors'
sake, tend to keep my props ~2,200RPM in the pattern. It's amazing, even
heavy, how little power it takes to arrest the descent. If the pattern
is empty, I can put the power at 14" and 2,200RPM as I enter downwind,
and then add flaps as needed & never touch the power levers until I can
them over the threshold. During the go-around, flaps up & nudging the
throttles to 17 or 18" is sufficient to regain level flight. 25" is the
most I use for climbout to re-enter the pattern, and I'll usually move
the props up to 2,400RPM before that final throttle adjustment.
There is a very timely article on AvWeb by John Deakin about go-arounds
here:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/pelicans_perch_87_killer_go-arounds_195755-1.html
I'm surprised that he gets so much heat from other pilots about his
philosophy, as I've evidently been trained to do them in the manner he
prefers. Of course, in a Commander, you can dump all the power you have
into a go-around, and that wing & tail are SO big that you won't have
any control issues...
Thanks again,
/John
Steve at Col-East wrote:
> Flamenco guitar, eh? I'd love to hear some of that. I used to have an
> old cassette tape of Segovia some years back. It sounded like 3 or 4
> instruments at once. I'm about a year into trying to play Viola, in
> between finishing our house, building a small bakery for my wife,
> pulling stumps and grading the land in back yard, and trying to
> rebuild an old MG.......... And I still want to build a biplane. You
> know, in my spare time.
>
> I changed the sheet to reflect operating the pin when selecting gear down.
>
> Also incorporated the previous very good observation to alternate
> shutdown to be opposite startup to detect problems with hydraulic and
> vacuum pumps. Something I DO, but didn't have on the sheet right.
>
> The sheets print out better, but not the way I designed it to be, on
> small index cards. I'lll work on that.
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* CloudCraft(at)aol.com
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 06, 2007 10:57 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
>
> In a message dated 06-Aug-07 07:18:06 Pacific Daylight Time,
> steve2(at)sover.net writes:
>
> I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of anything.
>
> *Yo ho! You are so right, Steve! *
> **
> *Checklists are always a work in progress. And, you can produce
> what you think is the perfect checklist after a lifetime of edits
> and tweaking and the first person you show it to will look at it
> and say it's worthless.*
> * *
> *
> Then there's the problem of your checklist being found at the
> bottom of a crater with a wrecked airplane on top of it ...
> You'll probably hear from the bereaved widow's attorney.*
> * *
> * *
> * *
> *As to the safety latch on the landing gear: your comment is
> always everyone's first reaction to the idea of safetying the gear
> upon extension.*
> * *
> * *
> * *
> * It is my belief that it's a simple thing to flick out of the way
> on a go-around or missed approach. But then again, I used to play
> flamenco guitar and can use my right hand pinkie and ring finger
> to move the latch while holding the gear handle with my thumb,
> index and middle finger. Ole! ;-)*
> * *
> * *
> * *
> *If the 3/4 of a second it takes to unsafety the gear is the
> difference between a successful go-around, are you really in
> position to make a go-around?*
> * *
> * *
> * *
> *There are two distinct camps on this issue and now you know where
> my tent is pitched. I rather flick (or fumble with) the gear
> safety, then to have a nose wheel fold back on landing. *
> * *
> * *
> * *
> *Wing Commander Gordon*
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> AOL.com.
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2439 (20070806) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document? |
John,
Gotta love Deakin. Good piece.
I'm very glad to read your previous message, and Deakin's column.
I had been nudging the RPM up on short final when I first started flying our
Commander. For a while now, I had been leaving props at cruise through
rollout, thinking I had plenty of power available if I needed to initiate a
go-around, and why make all that racket? I didn't figure anything would
happen so quick, I couldn't slowly shove everything forward if need be. The
only exception was if we had one of those swell days we get at the home
drome with the wind ripping over the hills. Then I would advance RPM on
final.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist Document?
>
> Steve,
>
> Thanks for your checklist documents! They look great, and I really
> appreciate the input. I'll make sure to put PROPERTY OF STEVE @ COL-EAST
> at the top of each page, so if something were to go awry, my wife will
> know whom my attorney should call. (Just kiddin')
>
> I was trained from day 1 to engage the pin latch after putting the gear
> down, and I do it automatically now, without thinking, as pretty much a
> single motion....lever-down-latch. In the couple of instances when the
> students have backed up the pattern at my local airport (ever notice how
> much faster a Commander is in the pattern than a Cessna 150, even when
> flying slow?), the go-around was a non event. I also, for the neighbors'
> sake, tend to keep my props ~2,200RPM in the pattern. It's amazing, even
> heavy, how little power it takes to arrest the descent. If the pattern is
> empty, I can put the power at 14" and 2,200RPM as I enter downwind, and
> then add flaps as needed & never touch the power levers until I can them
> over the threshold. During the go-around, flaps up & nudging the throttles
> to 17 or 18" is sufficient to regain level flight. 25" is the most I use
> for climbout to re-enter the pattern, and I'll usually move the props up
> to 2,400RPM before that final throttle adjustment.
>
> There is a very timely article on AvWeb by John Deakin about go-arounds
> here:
> http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/pelicans_perch_87_killer_go-arounds_195755-1.html
>
> I'm surprised that he gets so much heat from other pilots about his
> philosophy, as I've evidently been trained to do them in the manner he
> prefers. Of course, in a Commander, you can dump all the power you have
> into a go-around, and that wing & tail are SO big that you won't have any
> control issues...
>
> Thanks again,
>
> /John
>
> Steve at Col-East wrote:
>> Flamenco guitar, eh? I'd love to hear some of that. I used to have an old
>> cassette tape of Segovia some years back. It sounded like 3 or 4
>> instruments at once. I'm about a year into trying to play Viola, in
>> between finishing our house, building a small bakery for my wife, pulling
>> stumps and grading the land in back yard, and trying to rebuild an old
>> MG.......... And I still want to build a biplane. You know, in my spare
>> time.
>> I changed the sheet to reflect operating the pin when selecting gear
>> down.
>> Also incorporated the previous very good observation to alternate
>> shutdown to be opposite startup to detect problems with hydraulic and
>> vacuum pumps. Something I DO, but didn't have on the sheet right.
>> The sheets print out better, but not the way I designed it to be, on
>> small index cards. I'lll work on that.
>> Steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* CloudCraft(at)aol.com
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 06, 2007 10:57 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Anyone have a 500-B Checklist
>> Document?
>>
>> In a message dated 06-Aug-07 07:18:06 Pacific Daylight Time,
>> steve2(at)sover.net writes:
>>
>> I do have some misgivings about posting my 'versions' of
>> anything.
>>
>> *Yo ho! You are so right, Steve! *
>> ** *Checklists are always a work in progress. And, you can produce
>> what you think is the perfect checklist after a lifetime of edits
>> and tweaking and the first person you show it to will look at it
>> and say it's worthless.*
>> * *
>> *
>> Then there's the problem of your checklist being found at the
>> bottom of a crater with a wrecked airplane on top of it ... You'll
>> probably hear from the bereaved widow's attorney.*
>> * *
>> * *
>> * *
>> *As to the safety latch on the landing gear: your comment is
>> always everyone's first reaction to the idea of safetying the gear
>> upon extension.*
>> * *
>> * *
>> * *
>> * It is my belief that it's a simple thing to flick out of the way
>> on a go-around or missed approach. But then again, I used to play
>> flamenco guitar and can use my right hand pinkie and ring finger
>> to move the latch while holding the gear handle with my thumb,
>> index and middle finger. Ole! ;-)*
>> * *
>> * *
>> * *
>> *If the 3/4 of a second it takes to unsafety the gear is the
>> difference between a successful go-around, are you really in
>> position to make a go-around?*
>> * *
>> * *
>> * *
>> *There are two distinct camps on this issue and now you know where
>> my tent is pitched. I rather flick (or fumble with) the gear
>> safety, then to have a nose wheel fold back on landing. *
>> * *
>> * *
>> * *
>> *Wing Commander Gordon*
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> AOL.com.
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2439 (20070806) Information __________
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
625 S. Douglas, El Segundo, CA 90245 $B!|(B Phone: (310) 536-0100 Fax: (310)
536-0333
moe(at)rosspistons.com
August 6, 2007
Fellow Commander Drivers:
Does anyone have a suggestion as to where one should go to have an outflow
valve for the pressurization system rebuilt for a 680F(p)?
Thanks!
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray_611(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outflow Valve |
Moe,
Mine were replaced at Commander Aero, you might check with Gary.
Another Subject;
Has anyone had any trouble with IGSO 540 Oil Pressure, I bought a New
Rebuilt Engine by Performance Engines and it came with (7) Seven Washers
under the Pressure Regulator but still cant get but 53 psi after
warm-up. any suggestions will be appreciated.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe - Ross Racing Pistons
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:48 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Outflow Valve
625 S. Douglas, El Segundo, CA 90245 =1B$B!|=1B(B Phone: (310)
536-0100 Fax: (310) 536-0333
moe(at)rosspistons.com
August 6, 2007
Fellow Commander Drivers:
Does anyone have a suggestion as to where one should go to have an
outflow valve for the pressurization system rebuilt for a 680F(p)?
Thanks!
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Jerry,
Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary.
Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil
pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can$B!G(Bt remember the GPM
(gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long
standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring
shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions:
1. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh,
but I have heard some real horror stories)
2. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the
engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a
maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can$B!G(Bt remember what it
is, but will look it up for you if necessary.
3. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight?
4. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about
1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Sprayberry
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Outflow Valve
Moe,
Mine were replaced at Commander Aero, you might check with Gary.
Another Subject;
Has anyone had any trouble with IGSO 540 Oil Pressure, I bought a New
Rebuilt Engine by Performance Engines and it came with (7) Seven Washers
under the Pressure Regulator but still cant get but 53 psi after warm-up.
any suggestions will be appreciated.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe - Ross Racing <mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com> Pistons
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:48 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Outflow Valve
625 S. Douglas, El Segundo, CA 90245 $B!|(B Phone: (310) 536-0100 Fax: (310)
536-0333
moe(at)rosspistons.com
August 6, 2007
Fellow Commander Drivers:
Does anyone have a suggestion as to where one should go to have an outflow
valve for the pressurization system rebuilt for a 680F(p)?
Thanks!
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Martin" <nick(at)container.com> |
| Subject: | Gas Gauge intermittent |
Dear Commander Owners:
I am having continual problems with intermittent readings of the fuel gauge
on my 1974 690 A ( serial 11226 ) $B!D(B.I know there is a $26,000 fix but
hoping there is a better way$B!D(B.anyone know of a fix to the problem ?
Nick Martin N690DB
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross
Racing Pistons
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 7:27 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Outflow Valve
Jerry,
Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary.
Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil
pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can$B!G(Bt remember the GPM
(gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long
standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring
shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions:
1. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh,
but I have heard some real horror stories)
2. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the
engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a
maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can$B!G(Bt remember what it
is, but will look it up for you if necessary.
3. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight?
4. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about
1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Sprayberry
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Outflow Valve
Moe,
Mine were replaced at Commander Aero, you might check with Gary.
Another Subject;
Has anyone had any trouble with IGSO 540 Oil Pressure, I bought a New
Rebuilt Engine by Performance Engines and it came with (7) Seven Washers
under the Pressure Regulator but still cant get but 53 psi after warm-up.
any suggestions will be appreciated.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe - Ross Racing <mailto:moe(at)rosspistons.com> Pistons
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:48 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Outflow Valve
625 S. Douglas, El Segundo, CA 90245 $B!|(B Phone: (310) 536-0100 Fax: (310)
536-0333
moe(at)rosspistons.com
August 6, 2007
Fellow Commander Drivers:
Does anyone have a suggestion as to where one should go to have an outflow
valve for the pressurization system rebuilt for a 680F(p)?
Thanks!
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gas Gauge intermittent |
A wooden dipstick and a watch?
bobf
On 8/7/07, Nick Martin wrote:
>
> Dear Commander Owners:
>
> I am having continual problems with intermittent readings of the fuel
> gauge on my 1974 690 A ( serial 11226 ) $B!D(B.I know there is a $26,000 fix
but
> hoping there is a better way$B!D(B.anyone know of a fix to the problem ?
>
>
> Nick Martin N690DB
>
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Moe - Ross
> Racing Pistons
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2007 7:27 AM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Outflow Valve
>
>
> Jerry,
>
>
> Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary.
>
>
> Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil
> pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can't remember the GPM
> (gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long
> standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring
> shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions:
>
> 1. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh,
> but I have heard some real horror stories)
> 2. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of
> the engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a
> maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can't remember what it is,
> but will look it up for you if necessary.
> 3. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight?
> 4. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and
> about 1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)?
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Moe
>
> N680RR
>
> 680F(p)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jerry Sprayberry
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:54 AM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Outflow Valve
>
>
> Moe,
>
>
> Mine were replaced at Commander Aero, you might check with Gary.
>
>
> Another Subject;
>
>
> Has anyone had any trouble with IGSO 540 Oil Pressure, I bought a New
> Rebuilt Engine by Performance Engines and it came with (7) Seven Washers
> under the Pressure Regulator but still cant get but 53 psi after warm-up.
> any suggestions will be appreciated.
>
>
> Jerry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Moe - Ross Racing Pistons
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 06, 2007 7:48 PM
>
> *Subject:* Commander-List: Outflow Valve
>
>
> *625 S. Douglas, El Segundo, CA 90245 *$B!|(B Phone: (310) 536-0100 Fax: (310)
> 536-0333
>
> *moe(at)rosspistons.com *
>
>
> August 6, 2007
>
>
> Fellow Commander Drivers:
>
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to where one should go to have an outflow
> valve for the pressurization system rebuilt for a 680F(p)?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Moe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray_611(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A |
Moe, and all Commander Folks,
Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC 680
Owners and Drivers will be appreciated.
I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak, (Morris)
said it was capable of up to 400 PSI.
1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old Engine
2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four
different places and it is the same.
3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green Band
is 70-80.
4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus.
Jerry,
Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary.
Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the
oil pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can't remember the
GPM (gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a
long standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount
of spring shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions:
1.. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh,
but I have heard some real horror stories)
2.. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the
engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a
maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can't remember what it
is, but will look it up for you if necessary.
3.. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight?
4.. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about
1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
Jerry Sprayberry
706 506-3167
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A |
js, there is a ball/socket on the io 720 that when worn or corrosion will
cause a lower o/p reading. interestingly enough it will decrease w/ altitu
de and increase on the way back down. there is a factory fix but suspect a
t overhaul is most cost efficient time to do it. mason
From: capnspray_611(at)hotmail.comTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Com
mander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1ADate: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:16:29 -0400
Moe, and all Commander Folks,
Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC 680 Ow
ners and Drivers will be appreciated.
I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak, (Morris) sai
d it was capable of up to 400 PSI.
1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old Engine
2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four diffe
rent places and it is the same.
3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green Band is
70-80.
4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus.
Jerry,
Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary.
Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil
pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can=92t remember the GPM (g
allons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long stan
ding problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring sh
imming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions:
Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh, but I hav
e heard some real horror stories)
Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the engine a
nd compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a maximum diffe
rential that is acceptable, again, I can=92t remember what it is, but will
look it up for you if necessary.
Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight?
Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about 1,500 RP
M (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
Jerry Sprayberry706 506-3167
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Myron Ashley" <mashley2(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A |
Hello Jerry,
I am not an engine expert but I have a little hydraulic experience. Here
is a viewpoint from a hydraulic perspective.
Pumps - Oil pressure is the measurement of resistance to flow. A pump
does not produce pressure, it produces flow. The pump has a pressure
rating that is the pressure that it can withstand before failure. With
that being said, low oil pressure means that the pump is not producing
the same flow as before (defective or worn pump), or the oil has found
an alternate path of least resistance (a crack or a missing internal
plug in an oil galley).
The function of a relief valve is to protect the hydraulic system from
going over a certain pressure setting. A relief valve is a normally
closed valve that only opens when oil pressure exceeds the spring
setting. A faulty relief valve (weak spring or valve does not completely
reseat therefore it is leaking) will also cause low oil pressure because
it is opening before the desired pressure setting.
The most likely cause of low oil pressure would be a pump not producing
correct flow (faulty or worn pump) or relief valve opening before
desired system pressure (spring setting) is achieved (faulty spring or
valve seat).
I hope this helps!
Myron Ashley
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Sprayberry
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A
Moe, and all Commander Folks,
Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC
680 Owners and Drivers will be appreciated.
I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak,
(Morris) said it was capable of up to 400 PSI.
1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old
Engine
2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four
different places and it is the same.
3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green
Band is 70-80.
4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus.
Jerry,
Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary.
Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that
the oil pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can't remember
the GPM (gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand
it, a long standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no
amount of spring shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some
suggestions:
1.. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage?
(Laugh, but I have heard some real horror stories)
2.. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of
the engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has
a maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can't remember what
it is, but will look it up for you if necessary.
3.. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight?
4.. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and
about 1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
Jerry Sprayberry
706 506-3167
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A |
Jerry,
In my days of IGSO-540 flying, it was suggested that an oil pressure drop
that could not be adjusted at pump output was a sign of a main bearing going bad.
Hard to imagine that with a recent o/h engine but stranger things have
happened.
Wing Commander Gordon
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A |
Jerry,
The oil pump on these engines seems to be capable of lots of pressure, but
not much volume. It is entirely possible to have a pump which will put out
lots of PSI pressure at a very low volume, but as the volume demand
increases (too much clearance between the rod and/or main bearings and the
crankshaft, a missing oil spray nozzle for the underside of the pistons,
ect.) the pressure goes down dramatically. Myron and Wing Commander Gordon
are correct. Generally, if the engine is very worn with lots of clearance
between the worn parts, which allows the oil to escape back into the sump
using the path of least resistance, your biggest problem will be at hot idle
(low oil pump speed and lots of clearance for the oil to squirt out at).
When I had two very worn engines in my bird the oil pressure would barely
stay in the green in the air, however, on the ground and hot there was not
enough oil pressure (below 35PSI) to make the fuel metering system work, so
it would run so rich that it was hard to keep it lit when landing, and you
had to manually lean it out on the roll out.
Since you can maintain pressure at high idle (1,500 RPM) on the ground,
but not at higher RPM, based on my old race car experience, be sure that the
inlet oil line from the tank to the pump does not have a "flapper" in it
that is reducing the amount of oil that is available for the pump. Check
all of the fittings on the inlet side for restrictions. In short be sure
that the line from the dry sump tank to the oil pump is not restricted. Did
you say that the pump relief spring was already shimmed with seven washers
when it came from Perf. Aero, or did someone else add these at a later time?
Regards,
Moe
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Sprayberry
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A
Moe, and all Commander Folks,
Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC 680
Owners and Drivers will be appreciated.
I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak, (Morris) said
it was capable of up to 400 PSI.
1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old Engine
2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four
different places and it is the same.
3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green Band is
70-80.
4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus.
Jerry,
Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary.
Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil
pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can't remember the GPM
(gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long
standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring
shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions:
1. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh,
but I have heard some real horror stories)
2. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the
engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a
maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can't remember what it is,
but will look it up for you if necessary.
3. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight?
4. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about
1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
Jerry Sprayberry
706 506-3167
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish
my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would
still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of
those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would
be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a
lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do
believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers".
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
"Commander ownership is not for everybody".
Well, it's not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cloudcraft(at)aol.com |
Bilbo,
I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list.
=C2- Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass alo
ng.
Where is your plane going?=C2- It's always good to know where the distress
calls are likely to come from.
Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am
Subject: Commander-List: 500A
Well, it is finished.=C2- As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner.=C2
- I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I
would still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of
those involved in the Commander community.=C2- However, I have decided it
would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway.=C2- I
have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably neve
r meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than =9Cgold
diggers=9D.
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
=9CCommander ownership is not for everybody=9D.
Well, it=99s not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
________________________________________________________________________
AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Bill,
I'm sorry to hear that you've sold your Commander. As a person who has
experienced ownership at the opposite end of the spectrum from you (I
love my airplane & it's taken good care of me), I wish wholeheartedly
that you had had a positive experience.
I do understand that Commander ownership isn't for everybody, but I hope
one day that you'll again be seduced by one of these fine airplanes.
Stay on the list regardless!!!
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I
> wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I
> would still own it today.
>
> I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a_
> few_ of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have
> decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s----
> anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I
> will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys
> here than gold diggers.
>
> I will always remember the_ supportive_ words of one person on this
> list Commander ownership is not for everybody.
>
> Well, its not for me.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill Bow
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2443 (20070808) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump
saga?
Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: cloudcraft(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A
Bilbo,
I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the
list. Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass
along.
Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the
distress calls are likely to come from.
Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am
Subject: Commander-List: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I
wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I
would still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a
few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have
decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s----
anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will
probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here
than =9Cgold diggers=9D.
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
=9CCommander ownership is not for everybody=9D.
Well, it=99s not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
p://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
="_blank">AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
N78379 is going to The Kings Wings. It is a missionary group out of south
Florida.
bb
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A
Bilbo,
I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list.
Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass along.
Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress
calls are likely to come from.
Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am
Subject: Commander-List: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish
my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would
still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of
those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would
be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a
lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do
believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers".
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
"Commander ownership is not for everybody".
Well, it's not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
==========
or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
==========
p://forums.matronics.com
==========
_____
size=2 width="100%" align=center>
="_blank">AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
THAT'S ME!!
SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP
Love it.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A
Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump
saga?
Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A
Bilbo,
I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list.
Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass along.
Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress
calls are likely to come from.
Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am
Subject: Commander-List: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish
my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would
still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of
those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would
be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a
lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do
believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers".
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
"Commander ownership is not for everybody".
Well, it's not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
==========
or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
==========
p://forums.matronics.com
==========
_____
size=2 width="100%" align=center>
="_blank">AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
Thanks Andrew
Bill
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot |
Hi Guys:
Wow, what a trial this has been tying to buy a good Turboprop airplane. We
thought we had a nice Twin Commander 1000, a few months ago, but the owner
backed out. Then we looked at some different jets and we ended up buying
N46FD which is a Piper Cheyenne LS400.
http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278
<http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278&return_url=/
i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtypeid=3xxxxxmmgi
d=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1>
&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtype
id=3xxxxxmmgid=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1
It's back in CT and I'm going to go get it and bring it back home SGU on
Monday, so I should be back sometime early next week. I'll check in and let
you know how it flies when I get back and get settled.
We are also looking to hire a pilot besides me to fly the plane so if you
know anyone that would be good, please have them contact me.
Thanks!
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Outflow Valve |
The test must have worked?
Bill
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Sprayberry" <capnspray_611(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A |
Moe,
The Engine was delivered in a crate with Performance Engines written on
all sides.
I unpacked the engine and removed the clear plastic wrapping myself, The
washers were in the regulator.
We found the washers when we tried to adjust the pressure to 75 PSI at
2200 RPM.
JS
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe - Ross Racing Pistons
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A
Jerry,
The oil pump on these engines seems to be capable of lots of pressure,
but not much volume. It is entirely possible to have a pump which will
put out lots of PSI pressure at a very low volume, but as the volume
demand increases (too much clearance between the rod and/or main
bearings and the crankshaft, a missing oil spray nozzle for the
underside of the pistons, ect.) the pressure goes down dramatically.
Myron and Wing Commander Gordon are correct. Generally, if the engine is
very worn with lots of clearance between the worn parts, which allows
the oil to escape back into the sump using the path of least resistance,
your biggest problem will be at hot idle (low oil pump speed and lots of
clearance for the oil to squirt out at). When I had two very worn
engines in my bird the oil pressure would barely stay in the green in
the air, however, on the ground and hot there was not enough oil
pressure (below 35PSI) to make the fuel metering system work, so it
would run so rich that it was hard to keep it lit when landing, and you
had to manually lean it out on the roll out.
Since you can maintain pressure at high idle (1,500 RPM) on the
ground, but not at higher RPM, based on my old race car experience, be
sure that the inlet oil line from the tank to the pump does not have a
"flapper" in it that is reducing the amount of oil that is available for
the pump. Check all of the fittings on the inlet side for restrictions.
In short be sure that the line from the dry sump tank to the oil pump
is not restricted. Did you say that the pump relief spring was already
shimmed with seven washers when it came from Perf. Aero, or did someone
else add these at a later time?
Regards,
Moe
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Sprayberry
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:16 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A
Moe, and all Commander Folks,
Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC
680 Owners and Drivers will be appreciated.
I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak,
(Morris) said it was capable of up to 400 PSI.
1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old
Engine
2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four
different places and it is the same.
3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green
Band is 70-80.
4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus.
Jerry,
Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary.
Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the
oil pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can't remember the
GPM (gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a
long standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount
of spring shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions:
1.. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage?
(Laugh, but I have heard some real horror stories)
2.. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of
the engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has
a maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can't remember what
it is, but will look it up for you if necessary.
3.. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight?
4.. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and
about 1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
Jerry Sprayberry
706 506-3167
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Bilbo,
Would you be kind enough to write down your experience? - pulling no
punches. It's refreshing for any group to hear critique and encouragement,
it's how things get better, otherwise we will, no doubt, repeat our mistakes
and, perhaps unwittingly, ignore our strengths.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A
THAT'S ME!!
SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP
Love it.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A
Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump
saga?
Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A
Bilbo,
I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list.
Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass along.
Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress
calls are likely to come from.
Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am
Subject: Commander-List: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish
my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would
still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of
those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would
be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a
lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do
believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers".
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
"Commander ownership is not for everybody".
Well, it's not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
==========
or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
==========
p://forums.matronics.com
==========
="_blank">AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pressurization Control Panel |
Anytime!
Bill
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot |
A retired B777 pilot's looking for a job. I heard him call Rush today.
Perhaps Rush's people could put you onto him. He got screwed by his union
which reduced his pension by some gadawful amount and now he must go back to
the left seat.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
Hi Guys:
Wow, what a trial this has been tying to buy a good Turboprop airplane. We
thought we had a nice Twin Commander 1000, a few months ago, but the owner
backed out. Then we looked at some different jets and we ended up buying
N46FD which is a Piper Cheyenne LS400.
http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278
<http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278&return_url=/
i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtypeid=3xxxxxmmgi
d=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1>
&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtype
id=3xxxxxmmgid=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1
It's back in CT and I'm going to go get it and bring it back home SGU on
Monday, so I should be back sometime early next week. I'll check in and let
you know how it flies when I get back and get settled.
We are also looking to hire a pilot besides me to fly the plane so if you
know anyone that would be good, please have them contact me
Thanks!
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot |
I heard that guy too. I sent an email to Rush, but I'll be real surprised if
I get any response, he says he gets 10,000 emails a day.
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
A retired B777 pilot's looking for a job. I heard him call Rush today.
Perhaps Rush's people could put you onto him. He got screwed by his union
which reduced his pension by some gadawful amount and now he must go back to
the left seat.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
Hi Guys:
Wow, what a trial this has been tying to buy a good Turboprop airplane. We
thought we had a nice Twin Commander 1000, a few months ago, but the owner
backed out. Then we looked at some different jets and we ended up buying
N46FD which is a Piper Cheyenne LS400.
http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278
<http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278&return_url=/
i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtypeid=3xxxxxmmgi
d=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1>
&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtype
id=3xxxxxmmgid=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1
It's back in CT and I'm going to go get it and bring it back home SGU on
Monday, so I should be back sometime early next week. I'll check in and let
you know how it flies when I get back and get settled.
We are also looking to hire a pilot besides me to fly the plane so if you
know anyone that would be good, please have them contact me
Thanks!
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
bilbo, i agree & what book? mason
From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.comTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE:
Commander-List: 500ADate: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 14:28:52 -0700
Bilbo,
Would you be kind enough to write down your experience? ' pulling no punc
hes. It=92s refreshing for any group to hear critique and encouragement, it
=92s how things get better, otherwise we will, no doubt, repeat our mistake
s and, perhaps unwittingly, ignore our strengths.
Thanks
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill BowSent: Wednesday, August 08, 20
07 1:39 PMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: Commander-List: 500A
THAT=92S ME!!
SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP
Love it.
bilbo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry CollmanSent: Wednesday, August 0
8, 2007 4:33 PMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Commander-List:
500A
Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump sa
ga?
Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A
Bilbo,I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the
list. Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass al
ong.Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress
calls are likely to come from.Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>To: comman
der-list(at)matronics.comSent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 amSubject: Commander-List
: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish
my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would st
ill own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few o
f those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it wo
uld be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have m
ade a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet
. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than =93gold diggers=94.
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list =93C
ommander ownership is not for everybody=94.
Well, it=92s not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
==========
or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
==========
p://forums.matronics.com
==========
="_blank">AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-
List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forum
s.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Yes, Bill it did. Thank you for your wise council.
Moe
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Outflow Valve
The test must have worked?
Bill
_____
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
I'll consider it.
bb
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A
Bilbo,
Would you be kind enough to write down your experience? - pulling no
punches. It's refreshing for any group to hear critique and encouragement,
it's how things get better, otherwise we will, no doubt, repeat our mistakes
and, perhaps unwittingly, ignore our strengths.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A
THAT'S ME!!
SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP
Love it.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A
Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump
saga?
Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A
Bilbo,
I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list.
Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass along.
Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress
calls are likely to come from.
Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am
Subject: Commander-List: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish
my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would
still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of
those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would
be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a
lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do
believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers".
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
"Commander ownership is not for everybody".
Well, it's not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
==========
or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
==========
p://forums.matronics.com
==========
="_blank">AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Girod" <DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I
wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I
would still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a
few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have
decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s----
anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will
probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here
than "gold diggers".
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
"Commander ownership is not for everybody".
Well, it's not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
Bill;You are fortunate in that you still get to sit in the big bird and
fly. It was when I could no longer do that, that I bought my Commander.
I too am sorry you did not have a good experience, so far, mine has
been just what I had hoped for, my problem is I don't go fly enough.
However, we all see some frustration on the list with older airplanes
and hard to get parts, thankfully, the knowledge is in someone's head.I
would only slightly change your supportive words to this, "Commander
ownership is not for everybody, but it should be".Keep the shinny side
up,Don
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
8/7/2007 4:06 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot |
I am a subscriber to "Rush in a hurry" and it's mentioned there. I'll check
out Rush's website; perhaps a name is dropped. Who knows.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
I heard that guy too. I sent an email to Rush, but I'll be real surprised if
I get any response, he says he gets 10,000 emails a day.
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
A retired B777 pilot's looking for a job. I heard him call Rush today.
Perhaps Rush's people could put you onto him. He got screwed by his union
which reduced his pension by some gadawful amount and now he must go back to
the left seat.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
Hi Guys:
Wow, what a trial this has been tying to buy a good Turboprop airplane. We
thought we had a nice Twin Commander 1000, a few months ago, but the owner
backed out. Then we looked at some different jets and we ended up buying
N46FD which is a Piper Cheyenne LS400.
http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278
<http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278&return_url=/
i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtypeid=3xxxxxmmgi
d=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1>
&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtype
id=3xxxxxmmgid=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1
It's back in CT and I'm going to go get it and bring it back home SGU on
Monday, so I should be back sometime early next week. I'll check in and let
you know how it flies when I get back and get settled.
We are also looking to hire a pilot besides me to fly the plane so if you
know anyone that would be good, please have them contact me
Thanks!
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
bb, please! mason
From: bowing74(at)earthlink.netTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: Co
mmander-List: 500ADate: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 19:15:41 -0400
I=92ll consider it.
bb
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico cssSent: Wednesday, August 08, 20
07 5:29 PMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: Commander-List: 500A
Bilbo,
Would you be kind enough to write down your experience? ' pulling no punc
hes. It=92s refreshing for any group to hear critique and encouragement, it
=92s how things get better, otherwise we will, no doubt, repeat our mistake
s and, perhaps unwittingly, ignore our strengths.
Thanks
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill BowSent: Wednesday, August 08, 20
07 1:39 PMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: Commander-List: 500A
THAT=92S ME!!
SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP
Love it.
bilbo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry CollmanSent: Wednesday, August 0
8, 2007 4:33 PMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Commander-List:
500A
Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump sa
ga?
Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A
Bilbo,I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the
list. Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass al
ong.Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress
calls are likely to come from.Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>To: comman
der-list(at)matronics.comSent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 amSubject: Commander-List
: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish
my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would st
ill own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few o
f those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it wo
uld be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have m
ade a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet
. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than =93gold diggers=94.
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list =93C
ommander ownership is not for everybody=94.
Well, it=92s not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
==========
or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
==========
p://forums.matronics.com
==========
="_blank">AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-
List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forum
s.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
BB,
I, too, would be very interested in your experiences with your 500A. As
a "new" owner of a 500S (3 years), I too have had my ups and downs. I
just figured that it was the nature of airplane ownership.
Don Falik
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Girod
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I
wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I
would still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a
few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have
decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s----
anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will
probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here
than "gold diggers".
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
"Commander ownership is not for everybody".
Well, it's not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
Bill;
You are fortunate in that you still get to sit in the big bird and fly.
It was when I could no longer do that, that I bought my Commander.
I too am sorry you did not have a good experience, so far, mine has been
just what I had hoped for, my problem is I don't go fly enough.
However, we all see some frustration on the list with older airplanes
and hard to get parts, thankfully, the knowledge is in someone's head.
I would only slightly change your supportive words to this, "Commander
ownership is not for everybody, but it should be".
Keep the shinny side up,
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_____
Date: 8/7/2007 4:06 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot |
That's' right, you never know what's around the corner.
I realize this isn't the best forum to find a pilot, but you never know who
may be looking or who may know someone that's looking for that type of work.
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
I am a subscriber to "Rush in a hurry" and it's mentioned there. I'll check
out Rush's website; perhaps a name is dropped. Who knows.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
I heard that guy too. I sent an email to Rush, but I'll be real surprised if
I get any response, he says he gets 10,000 emails a day.
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
A retired B777 pilot's looking for a job. I heard him call Rush today.
Perhaps Rush's people could put you onto him. He got screwed by his union
which reduced his pension by some gadawful amount and now he must go back to
the left seat.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot
Hi Guys:
Wow, what a trial this has been tying to buy a good Turboprop airplane. We
thought we had a nice Twin Commander 1000, a few months ago, but the owner
backed out. Then we looked at some different jets and we ended up buying
N46FD which is a Piper Cheyenne LS400.
http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278
<http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278&return_url=/
i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtypeid=3xxxxxmmgi
d=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1>
&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtype
id=3xxxxxmmgid=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1
It's back in CT and I'm going to go get it and bring it back home SGU on
Monday, so I should be back sometime early next week. I'll check in and let
you know how it flies when I get back and get settled.
We are also looking to hire a pilot besides me to fly the plane so if you
know anyone that would be good, please have them contact me
Thanks!
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Bill-
I'll add to the calls to hear your experience!
I spend quite a bit of time reading NTSB summaries to learn from the
mistakes of other commander pilots- there are a number of us who weren't
here to know of your experience- and we could certainly benefit from it.
My commander experience has been mostly negatives. I'm hoping to trump that
today with a return to flight for N414C. Stay tuned.
Robert Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:01 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A
BB,
I, too, would be very interested in your experiences with your 500A. As a
"new" owner of a 500S (3 years), I too have had my ups and downs. I just
figured that it was the nature of airplane ownership.
Don Falik
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Girod
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish
my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would
still own it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of
those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would
be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a
lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do
believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers".
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list
"Commander ownership is not for everybody".
Well, it's not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
Bill;
You are fortunate in that you still get to sit in the big bird and fly. It
was when I could no longer do that, that I bought my Commander.
I too am sorry you did not have a good experience, so far, mine has been
just what I had hoped for, my problem is I don't go fly enough.
However, we all see some frustration on the list with older airplanes and
hard to get parts, thankfully, the knowledge is in someone's head.
I would only slightly change your supportive words to this, "Commander
ownership is not for everybody, but it should be".
Keep the shinny side up,
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_____
Date: 8/7/2007 4:06 PM
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2447 (20070809) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Sorry to hear about the bad experiance...I just sold mine as the fuel bills
for one or two people just don't pencil out as I make a couple of 700 mile
trips a month...dearly miss my bird...I did get lucky and stumbled on to a
reasonable mechanic at RDD...Mark at Aircraft inspection service kept her
in great shape without breaking the bank...one day I will have another...ma
ybe I could talk my wife into a second job???=0A=0ACraig=0A=0A=0A----- Orig
inal Message ----=0AFrom: Don Girod <DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net>=0ATo: commande
r-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, August 8, 2007 7:56:23 PM=0ASubject
: Re: Commander-List: 500A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0AWell, it is finished. As
of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my 500A had been what it
was represented as when I bought it as I would still own it today.=0AI had
written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of thos
e involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would be
counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a
lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do
believe there are a lot more good guys here than =93gold diggers=94.=0AI w
ill always remember the supportive words of one person on this list =93Comm
ander ownership is not for everybody=94.=0AWell, it=92s not for me.=0ACheer
s,=0ABill Bow=0ABill;=0AYou are fortunate in that you still get to sit in t
he big bird and fly. It was when I could no longer do that, that I bought
my Commander. =0AI too am sorry you did not have a good experience, so far
, mine has been just what I had hoped for, my problem is I don't go fly eno
ugh. =0AHowever, we all see some frustration on the list with older airplan
es and hard to get parts, thankfully, the knowledge is in someone's head.
=0AI would only slightly change your supportive words to this, "Commander o
wnership is not for everybody, but it should be".=0AKeep the shinny side up
,=0ADon=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matr
onics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ADate: 8/7/2007 4:06 PM
====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
My, and I suspect most people's problems seem to fall into at least some of these
catagories:
incompetent , dishonest, or commander unfamiliar mechanics
lack of Stcs for key systems like brakes and autopilots
lack of good instruction in type
difficulty in insuring an "old plane".
fuel cost of a twin
The ups so far seem to have been:
great plane. Strong, handles well, carries lots.
excellent support from Tc and TCFG
bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: "Craig Lundborg"<dltafolk(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: 8/9/07 9:47:56 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A
Sorry to hear about the bad experiance...I just sold mine as the fuel bills for
one or two people just don't pencil out as I make a couple of 700 mile trips
a month...dearly miss my bird...I did get lucky and stumbled on to a reasonable
mechanic at RDD...Mark at Aircraft inspection service kept her in great shape
without breaking the bank...one day I will have another...maybe I could talk
my wife into a second job???
Craig
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Girod <DonGirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2007 7:56:23 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A
Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my
500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would still own
it today.
I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of those
involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would be
counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a lot
of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do believe
there are a lot more good guys here than gold diggers.
I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list Commander
ownership is not for everybody.
Well, its not for me.
Cheers,
Bill Bow
Bill;
You are fortunate in that you still get to sit in the big bird and fly. It was
when I could no longer do that, that I bought my Commander.
I too am sorry you did not have a good experience, so far, mine has been just what
I had hoped for, my problem is I don't go fly enough.
However, we all see some frustration on the list with older airplanes and hard
to get parts, thankfully, the knowledge is in someone's head.
I would only slightly change your supportive words to this, "Commander ownership
is not for everybody, but it should be".
Keep the shinny side up,
Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Date: 8/7/2007 4:06 PM====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
Dont go away because of some bad fruit. We love our 500A, and I am sure
you felt the same about yours. Not too many of them left you know...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
Not sure how to take that off the list... ???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander multiengine examiner |
| From: | "brent-mueller(at)comcast.net" <aerocommander-560e(at)comcast.net> |
Just curious if you ever found anyone qualified in the 500 Al.
Take Care,
Brent - N224HA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128480#128480
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commander 560 For Sale |
| From: | "Anthony Zimmerman" <learjet606(at)comcast.net> |
engine times & TBO ?
Anthony
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128484#128484
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "alh1(at)juno.com" <alh1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander multiengine examiner |
my previous examiner, mr. fred joss, (lna) could not keep is designation because
he did not give enough rides to keep it. one of the members suggested that
we apply for a one time approval. fred is confident that procedure will work
and so now we are waiting until the guy is ready. thanks to everyone for the
information they furnished. There were two fellows in miami and tamiami, but
i would have to fly the guy down, wait for him and fly him home. (this because
of insurance) it is much easier this way. allan hoffman n628ah.
-- "brent-mueller(at)comcast.net" wrote:
Just curious if you ever found anyone qualified in the 500 Al.
Take Care,
Brent - N224HA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128480#128480
________________________________________________________________________
Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband!
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All,
If anyone on the list owns a Commander, between Serial Numbers 691 and
895, could take a .jpg image of their Data Plate, I'll be most grateful.
I'm trying to ascertain when the location for the Manufacturer was
changed from "Tulakes Airport, Oklahoma City, Okla." to "Bethany,
Okla.".
Your help will be very much appreciated.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aero Commander 560 For Sale |
| From: | "brent-mueller(at)comcast.net" <aerocommander-560e(at)comcast.net> |
pm sent
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128699#128699
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | N414C Flew (finally!) |
Commanders-
I thought you'd all be interested to know that the long derelict N414C
finally flew again after two years and two days of languishing in the rehab
hangar.
We have run a series of engine check-runs during the past few weeks as a
lead-up to flight testing, and aside from a bit of fuel flow tweaking that
was required, all was in great shape.
First flight was conducted on Friday afternoon in 94 degree heat giving us a
density altitude at 4SD of a paltry 8200'. Takeoff was conducted with 12
knots of crosswind at an all up weight of 7700lbs. Takeoff was uneventful
except for the left prop control having to be held in the full forward
position. (It tended to want to slip back to a position that nicely set
3,000 RPM.) Climbout was conducted at 37"/3000RPM, resulting in about
700-800fpm in the climb. Since the new right engine wasn't seated, we were
concerned about leaving the engine at MRCP for the climb, as the TIT was
only just within limits at such a high power setting. The engine seated
itself about 10-15 minutes into the flight, so the next takeoff will be
flown at MRCP to 1500' AGL then at 40"/3000RPM.
Both engines performed flawlessly- and since the purpose of the flight was
to validate that the airplane was mechanically flight worthy, we didn't
spend much time on the avionics. (Okay- I admit- I was mesmerized by all
the pretty stuff on the displays.) We ran through our pre-planned profile
of power settings and climbs/level flight/descent profiles. We engaged the
autopilot briefly during the flight and found that the gains need to be
adjusted slightly in roll and significantly in pitch. This plus a dozen or
so minor squawks were identified- but the airplane is in great shape
considering that she's had her innards torn out and almost completely
replaced. We are working to iron out the couple of squawks related to left
engine (oil seepage) and then N414C will be headed to Morris in California
for a wing spar inspection, and sea level adjustment of fuel flow to both
engines... (Morris is only 140nm from here- how convenient is that?!)
Monday looks to be a working day to clear up squawks, then we'll conduct
another, longer flight on Tuesday morning when the temperature is down
around 70F, in order to give the airplane some advantage.
I can't even begin to tell you how nice it was to by flying a commander
again. The entire staff at Aviation Classics here in Reno stayed nearly an
hour over on Friday afternoon to witness the test flight. There were plenty
of smiles all around when we taxied back in and shut down with an
overall-good flight report! A lot of people have invested a lot of time to
get this airplane back in the air- there are a dozen or so people who have
adopted this airplane as a result of their hard work- and it was rewarding
to all of us that they finally saw her fly! Image of new cockpit is
attached.
One interesting side note on N414C- we discovered something HORRIFYING about
our airplane on Friday morning. (Kieth & Milt: this will put your hair on
end.) When N414C was built, she was weighed at 6500lbs and flown to
California where the interior and avionics were installed. The installation
facility included the work on a 337 which listed all of the equipment
weight- and a new calculated W/B was entered into the flight manual. This
W/B was in error, as it OMITTED THE WEIGHT OF THE NEW INTERIOR AND AVIONICS
FITTINGS. To make matters worse, the airplane has not been on scales since
the date of manufacture and all other W/B updates were done as calculated
updates- so throughout the airplane's entire career, her paperwork has shown
that she weighed hundreds of pounds less than actual weight.
Since 1973, almost 200lbs of "other stuff" was added to the airplane, so
while the most current calculated W/B showed 6690lbs, we estimated that the
airplane actually weighed 7,140lbs. We had conducted three flights at or
near MGTOW- and the airplane seemed to struggle more than would be expected-
apparently this is why.
On a happier side note, we gutted the avionics and effectively rewired the
entire airplane with new, modern avionics and their associated light weight
components. Everything that wasn't required came out- and anything that
could be replaced by modern, more reliable, light weight components was
replaced. For our amusement, we were keeping an approximate weight of
everything that was taken out of the airplane- and expected to see N414C
lose 250+ lbs during this renovation.
All up weight of N414C is now accurately known: 6792lbs.
Lesson learned: Have your older airplane thrown on scales if it hasn't been
done in some time. You just never know.
Robert S. Randazzo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N414C Flew (finally!) |
In a message dated 12-Aug-07 10:19:42 Pacific Daylight Time,
rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:
We had conducted three flights at or near MGTOW- and the airplane seemed to
struggle more than would be expected- apparently this is why.
Mystery solved!
Great work and congratulations, Sir!
Wing Commander Gordon
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | N414C Flew (finally!) |
Congratulations, Bob. I cannot help but think of Bilbo's plight with his
500A. What is one to do when the experts give a clean bill of health and it
turns out to be a lemon? That's such as pity.
On the other hand, you took no chances and gave the plane a thorough
rebuild. Perhaps if Bilbo had the right information, a rebuild might have
been a better option for his ship at least returning a 'new' Commander to
the pool. But the seller, it appears, walked away with all the money that
would have been required for a rebuild plus some.
Back to N414C. If you don't think this is too forward, how much did the
rebuild set you back?
I thought I had pictures of N414C but couldn't find any, not even after the
accident in 1998. Do you have some to share?
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: N414C Flew (finally!)
Commanders-
I thought you'd all be interested to know that the long derelict N414C
finally flew again after two years and two days of languishing in the rehab
hangar.
We have run a series of engine check-runs during the past few weeks as a
lead-up to flight testing, and aside from a bit of fuel flow tweaking that
was required, all was in great shape.
First flight was conducted on Friday afternoon in 94 degree heat giving us a
density altitude at 4SD of a paltry 8200'. Takeoff was conducted with 12
knots of crosswind at an all up weight of 7700lbs. Takeoff was uneventful
except for the left prop control having to be held in the full forward
position. (It tended to want to slip back to a position that nicely set
3,000 RPM.) Climbout was conducted at 37"/3000RPM, resulting in about
700-800fpm in the climb. Since the new right engine wasn't seated, we were
concerned about leaving the engine at MRCP for the climb, as the TIT was
only just within limits at such a high power setting. The engine seated
itself about 10-15 minutes into the flight, so the next takeoff will be
flown at MRCP to 1500' AGL then at 40"/3000RPM.
Both engines performed flawlessly- and since the purpose of the flight was
to validate that the airplane was mechanically flight worthy, we didn't
spend much time on the avionics. (Okay- I admit- I was mesmerized by all
the pretty stuff on the displays.) We ran through our pre-planned profile
of power settings and climbs/level flight/descent profiles. We engaged the
autopilot briefly during the flight and found that the gains need to be
adjusted slightly in roll and significantly in pitch. This plus a dozen or
so minor squawks were identified- but the airplane is in great shape
considering that she's had her innards torn out and almost completely
replaced. We are working to iron out the couple of squawks related to left
engine (oil seepage) and then N414C will be headed to Morris in California
for a wing spar inspection, and sea level adjustment of fuel flow to both
engines... (Morris is only 140nm from here- how convenient is that?!)
Monday looks to be a working day to clear up squawks, then we'll conduct
another, longer flight on Tuesday morning when the temperature is down
around 70F, in order to give the airplane some advantage.
I can't even begin to tell you how nice it was to by flying a commander
again. The entire staff at Aviation Classics here in Reno stayed nearly an
hour over on Friday afternoon to witness the test flight. There were plenty
of smiles all around when we taxied back in and shut down with an
overall-good flight report! A lot of people have invested a lot of time to
get this airplane back in the air- there are a dozen or so people who have
adopted this airplane as a result of their hard work- and it was rewarding
to all of us that they finally saw her fly! Image of new cockpit is
attached.
One interesting side note on N414C- we discovered something HORRIFYING about
our airplane on Friday morning. (Kieth & Milt: this will put your hair on
end.) When N414C was built, she was weighed at 6500lbs and flown to
California where the interior and avionics were installed. The installation
facility included the work on a 337 which listed all of the equipment
weight- and a new calculated W/B was entered into the flight manual. This
W/B was in error, as it OMITTED THE WEIGHT OF THE NEW INTERIOR AND AVIONICS
FITTINGS. To make matters worse, the airplane has not been on scales since
the date of manufacture and all other W/B updates were done as calculated
updates- so throughout the airplane's entire career, her paperwork has shown
that she weighed hundreds of pounds less than actual weight.
Since 1973, almost 200lbs of "other stuff" was added to the airplane, so
while the most current calculated W/B showed 6690lbs, we estimated that the
airplane actually weighed 7,140lbs. We had conducted three flights at or
near MGTOW- and the airplane seemed to struggle more than would be expected-
apparently this is why.
On a happier side note, we gutted the avionics and effectively rewired the
entire airplane with new, modern avionics and their associated light weight
components. Everything that wasn't required came out- and anything that
could be replaced by modern, more reliable, light weight components was
replaced. For our amusement, we were keeping an approximate weight of
everything that was taken out of the airplane- and expected to see N414C
lose 250+ lbs during this renovation.
All up weight of N414C is now accurately known: 6792lbs.
Lesson learned: Have your older airplane thrown on scales if it hasn't been
done in some time. You just never know.
Robert S. Randazzo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
A clear data plate is here
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/AeroCommanders/N2732B/HPIM0278
.JPG
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 4:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Data plates
Hi All,
If anyone on the list owns a Commander, between Serial Numbers 691 and 895,
could take a .jpg image of their Data Plate, I'll be most grateful.
I'm trying to ascertain when the location for the Manufacturer was changed
from "Tulakes Airport, Oklahoma City, Okla." to "Bethany, Okla.".
Your help will be very much appreciated.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Barry,
Take a look at http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/AeroCommanders/
and check out the zulu sierra commanders. I took pictures of some of the
data plates back in 2000, which didn't come out as I expected, but perhaps
what you are looking for might be visible.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 4:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Data plates
Hi All,
If anyone on the list owns a Commander, between Serial Numbers 691 and 895,
could take a .jpg image of their Data Plate, I'll be most grateful.
I'm trying to ascertain when the location for the Manufacturer was changed
from "Tulakes Airport, Oklahoma City, Okla." to "Bethany, Okla.".
Your help will be very much appreciated.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
And here:
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/AeroCommanders/N47RR/47RR205.j
pg
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 4:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Data plates
Hi All,
If anyone on the list owns a Commander, between Serial Numbers 691 and 895,
could take a .jpg image of their Data Plate, I'll be most grateful.
I'm trying to ascertain when the location for the Manufacturer was changed
from "Tulakes Airport, Oklahoma City, Okla." to "Bethany, Okla.".
Your help will be very much appreciated.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | N414C Flew (finally!) |
Congratulations, best of luck.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 1:16 PM
Subject: Commander-List: N414C Flew (finally!)
Commanders-
I thought you'd all be interested to know that the long derelict N414C
finally flew again after two years and two days of languishing in the rehab
hangar.
We have run a series of engine check-runs during the past few weeks as a
lead-up to flight testing, and aside from a bit of fuel flow tweaking that
was required, all was in great shape.
First flight was conducted on Friday afternoon in 94 degree heat giving us a
density altitude at 4SD of a paltry 8200'. Takeoff was conducted with 12
knots of crosswind at an all up weight of 7700lbs. Takeoff was uneventful
except for the left prop control having to be held in the full forward
position. (It tended to want to slip back to a position that nicely set
3,000 RPM.) Climbout was conducted at 37"/3000RPM, resulting in about
700-800fpm in the climb. Since the new right engine wasn't seated, we were
concerned about leaving the engine at MRCP for the climb, as the TIT was
only just within limits at such a high power setting. The engine seated
itself about 10-15 minutes into the flight, so the next takeoff will be
flown at MRCP to 1500' AGL then at 40"/3000RPM.
Both engines performed flawlessly- and since the purpose of the flight was
to validate that the airplane was mechanically flight worthy, we didn't
spend much time on the avionics. (Okay- I admit- I was mesmerized by all
the pretty stuff on the displays.) We ran through our pre-planned profile
of power settings and climbs/level flight/descent profiles. We engaged the
autopilot briefly during the flight and found that the gains need to be
adjusted slightly in roll and significantly in pitch. This plus a dozen or
so minor squawks were identified- but the airplane is in great shape
considering that she's had her innards torn out and almost completely
replaced. We are working to iron out the couple of squawks related to left
engine (oil seepage) and then N414C will be headed to Morris in California
for a wing spar inspection, and sea level adjustment of fuel flow to both
engines... (Morris is only 140nm from here- how convenient is that?!)
Monday looks to be a working day to clear up squawks, then we'll conduct
another, longer flight on Tuesday morning when the temperature is down
around 70F, in order to give the airplane some advantage.
I can't even begin to tell you how nice it was to by flying a commander
again. The entire staff at Aviation Classics here in Reno stayed nearly an
hour over on Friday afternoon to witness the test flight. There were plenty
of smiles all around when we taxied back in and shut down with an
overall-good flight report! A lot of people have invested a lot of time to
get this airplane back in the air- there are a dozen or so people who have
adopted this airplane as a result of their hard work- and it was rewarding
to all of us that they finally saw her fly! Image of new cockpit is
attached.
One interesting side note on N414C- we discovered something HORRIFYING about
our airplane on Friday morning. (Kieth & Milt: this will put your hair on
end.) When N414C was built, she was weighed at 6500lbs and flown to
California where the interior and avionics were installed. The installation
facility included the work on a 337 which listed all of the equipment
weight- and a new calculated W/B was entered into the flight manual. This
W/B was in error, as it OMITTED THE WEIGHT OF THE NEW INTERIOR AND AVIONICS
FITTINGS. To make matters worse, the airplane has not been on scales since
the date of manufacture and all other W/B updates were done as calculated
updates- so throughout the airplane's entire career, her paperwork has shown
that she weighed hundreds of pounds less than actual weight.
Since 1973, almost 200lbs of "other stuff" was added to the airplane, so
while the most current calculated W/B showed 6690lbs, we estimated that the
airplane actually weighed 7,140lbs. We had conducted three flights at or
near MGTOW- and the airplane seemed to struggle more than would be expected-
apparently this is why.
On a happier side note, we gutted the avionics and effectively rewired the
entire airplane with new, modern avionics and their associated light weight
components. Everything that wasn't required came out- and anything that
could be replaced by modern, more reliable, light weight components was
replaced. For our amusement, we were keeping an approximate weight of
everything that was taken out of the airplane- and expected to see N414C
lose 250+ lbs during this renovation.
All up weight of N414C is now accurately known: 6792lbs.
Lesson learned: Have your older airplane thrown on scales if it hasn't been
done in some time. You just never know.
Robert S. Randazzo
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Nico,
Thanks, for this link and the other two!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:06 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Data plates
A clear data plate is here
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/AeroCommanders/N2732B/HPIM0
278.JPG
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 4:10 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Data plates
Hi All,
If anyone on the list owns a Commander, between Serial Numbers 691 and
895, could take a .jpg image of their Data Plate, I'll be most grateful.
I'm trying to ascertain when the location for the Manufacturer was
changed from "Tulakes Airport, Oklahoma City, Okla." to "Bethany,
Okla.".
Your help will be very much appreciated.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Commanders-
Seems not ALL the news surrounding N414C's return to flight is good.
One of the dozen-or-so squawks that we listed on the airplane after purchase
was that the left engine had a tendency to produce oil in the cowling. The
usual minor drips and items were found and cleared up during the two year
down time- and a series of engine runs seemed to corroborate that the oil
seepage was fixed.
Unfortunately- the seepage returned during our test flight of last Friday-
so today they opened up the cowl and started searching once again. The
result was that they discovered that one of the mid-case through studs was
sheered inside the case. Additionally- the inner-most cooling fin on each
of the #3/#4 cylinders shows a very small impact dent where (we're assuming
here) the free ends of the stud impacted the fins at the time it sheered?
Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day- as the #3/#4 cylinders will get
pulled- and all of the surrounding area will get a good looking over. As
would be expected- a call to TCM was rebuffed as they lack the corporate
responsibility to provide any type of data support for the engine.
I thought I'd run the squawk by you all to see if anyone has had any similar
experience? Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas what might cause
it ? Any guesses as to whether we are looking at a minor, known problem or
a more serious warning sign of potential catastrophic failure?
Obviously the experts in the shop will be making the decisions surrounding
and inspection/replacement of the stud, but there is a tremendous amount of
expertise here- so I thought I'd solicit..
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Do you think it would shear off if wasn't over-torqued? If the stud failed
due to abuse on a previous occasion, perhaps replacing them all might be
considered. Just guessing.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Commanders-
Seems not ALL the news surrounding N414C's return to flight is good.
One of the dozen-or-so squawks that we listed on the airplane after purchase
was that the left engine had a tendency to produce oil in the cowling. The
usual minor drips and items were found and cleared up during the two year
down time- and a series of engine runs seemed to corroborate that the oil
seepage was fixed.
Unfortunately- the seepage returned during our test flight of last Friday-
so today they opened up the cowl and started searching once again. The
result was that they discovered that one of the mid-case through studs was
sheered inside the case. Additionally- the inner-most cooling fin on each
of the #3/#4 cylinders shows a very small impact dent where (we're assuming
here) the free ends of the stud impacted the fins at the time it sheered?
Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day- as the #3/#4 cylinders will get
pulled- and all of the surrounding area will get a good looking over. As
would be expected- a call to TCM was rebuffed as they lack the corporate
responsibility to provide any type of data support for the engine.
I thought I'd run the squawk by you all to see if anyone has had any similar
experience? Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas what might cause
it ? Any guesses as to whether we are looking at a minor, known problem or
a more serious warning sign of potential catastrophic failure?
Obviously the experts in the shop will be making the decisions surrounding
and inspection/replacement of the stud, but there is a tremendous amount of
expertise here- so I thought I'd solicit..
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Nico-
Seems reasonable that over-torque could cause it- but the small dents on the
cooling fins makes me wonder if it wasn't some type of stress load. I'm not
much of an engineer, however.
RSR
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 8:08 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Do you think it would shear off if wasn't over-torqued? If the stud failed
due to abuse on a previous occasion, perhaps replacing them all might be
considered. Just guessing.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Commanders-
Seems not ALL the news surrounding N414C's return to flight is good.
One of the dozen-or-so squawks that we listed on the airplane after purchase
was that the left engine had a tendency to produce oil in the cowling. The
usual minor drips and items were found and cleared up during the two year
down time- and a series of engine runs seemed to corroborate that the oil
seepage was fixed.
Unfortunately- the seepage returned during our test flight of last Friday-
so today they opened up the cowl and started searching once again. The
result was that they discovered that one of the mid-case through studs was
sheered inside the case. Additionally- the inner-most cooling fin on each
of the #3/#4 cylinders shows a very small impact dent where (we're assuming
here) the free ends of the stud impacted the fins at the time it sheered?
Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day- as the #3/#4 cylinders will get
pulled- and all of the surrounding area will get a good looking over. As
would be expected- a call to TCM was rebuffed as they lack the corporate
responsibility to provide any type of data support for the engine.
I thought I'd run the squawk by you all to see if anyone has had any similar
experience? Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas what might cause
it ? Any guesses as to whether we are looking at a minor, known problem or
a more serious warning sign of potential catastrophic failure?
Obviously the experts in the shop will be making the decisions surrounding
and inspection/replacement of the stud, but there is a tremendous amount of
expertise here- so I thought I'd solicit..
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
__________ NOD32 2458 (20070813) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Myron Ashley" <mashley2(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Hello Robert,
Describe the broken area of the stud when you get it out of the case.
(for example, is the fracture clean and straight, did the material neck
down like a coke bottle at the fracture, was the fracture straight
across like a pipe cutter or jagged like glass.) That will help
determine the cause of failure from a materials standpoint.
Thanks,
Myron
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:49 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Commanders-
Seems not ALL the news surrounding N414C's return to flight is good.
One of the dozen-or-so squawks that we listed on the airplane after
purchase was that the left engine had a tendency to produce oil in the
cowling. The usual minor drips and items were found and cleared up
during the two year down time- and a series of engine runs seemed to
corroborate that the oil seepage was fixed.
Unfortunately- the seepage returned during our test flight of last
Friday- so today they opened up the cowl and started searching once
again. The result was that they discovered that one of the mid-case
through studs was sheered inside the case. Additionally- the inner-most
cooling fin on each of the #3/#4 cylinders shows a very small impact
dent where (we're assuming here) the free ends of the stud impacted the
fins at the time it sheered?
Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day- as the #3/#4 cylinders
will get pulled- and all of the surrounding area will get a good looking
over. As would be expected- a call to TCM was rebuffed as they lack the
corporate responsibility to provide any type of data support for the
engine.
I thought I'd run the squawk by you all to see if anyone has had any
similar experience? Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas what
might cause it ? Any guesses as to whether we are looking at a minor,
known problem or a more serious warning sign of potential catastrophic
failure?
Obviously the experts in the shop will be making the decisions
surrounding and inspection/replacement of the stud, but there is a
tremendous amount of expertise here- so I thought I'd solicit..
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Robert,
Any chance of a fairly clear photo of both ends of the broken stud? Also,
what type of engines are these?
Moe
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Myron Ashley
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Hello Robert,
Describe the broken area of the stud when you get it out of the case. (for
example, is the fracture clean and straight, did the material neck down like
a coke bottle at the fracture, was the fracture straight across like a pipe
cutter or jagged like glass.) That will help determine the cause of failure
from a materials standpoint.
Thanks,
Myron
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo <mailto:rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:49 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Commanders-
Seems not ALL the news surrounding N414C's return to flight is good.
One of the dozen-or-so squawks that we listed on the airplane after purchase
was that the left engine had a tendency to produce oil in the cowling. The
usual minor drips and items were found and cleared up during the two year
down time- and a series of engine runs seemed to corroborate that the oil
seepage was fixed.
Unfortunately- the seepage returned during our test flight of last Friday-
so today they opened up the cowl and started searching once again. The
result was that they discovered that one of the mid-case through studs was
sheered inside the case. Additionally- the inner-most cooling fin on each
of the #3/#4 cylinders shows a very small impact dent where (we're assuming
here) the free ends of the stud impacted the fins at the time it sheered?
Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day- as the #3/#4 cylinders will get
pulled- and all of the surrounding area will get a good looking over. As
would be expected- a call to TCM was rebuffed as they lack the corporate
responsibility to provide any type of data support for the engine.
I thought I'd run the squawk by you all to see if anyone has had any similar
experience? Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas what might cause
it ? Any guesses as to whether we are looking at a minor, known problem or
a more serious warning sign of potential catastrophic failure?
Obviously the experts in the shop will be making the decisions surrounding
and inspection/replacement of the stud, but there is a tremendous amount of
expertise here- so I thought I'd solicit..
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Moe-
I'll take some photos this morning once they get the piece out.
GTSIO-520Ks.
Robert
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross
Racing Pistons
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Robert,
Any chance of a fairly clear photo of both ends of the broken stud? Also,
what type of engines are these?
Moe
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Myron Ashley
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Hello Robert,
Describe the broken area of the stud when you get it out of the case. (for
example, is the fracture clean and straight, did the material neck down like
a coke bottle at the fracture, was the fracture straight across like a pipe
cutter or jagged like glass.) That will help determine the cause of failure
from a materials standpoint.
Thanks,
Myron
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo <mailto:rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:49 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Commanders-
Seems not ALL the news surrounding N414C's return to flight is good.
One of the dozen-or-so squawks that we listed on the airplane after purchase
was that the left engine had a tendency to produce oil in the cowling. The
usual minor drips and items were found and cleared up during the two year
down time- and a series of engine runs seemed to corroborate that the oil
seepage was fixed.
Unfortunately- the seepage returned during our test flight of last Friday-
so today they opened up the cowl and started searching once again. The
result was that they discovered that one of the mid-case through studs was
sheered inside the case. Additionally- the inner-most cooling fin on each
of the #3/#4 cylinders shows a very small impact dent where (we're assuming
here) the free ends of the stud impacted the fins at the time it sheered?
Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day- as the #3/#4 cylinders will get
pulled- and all of the surrounding area will get a good looking over. As
would be expected- a call to TCM was rebuffed as they lack the corporate
responsibility to provide any type of data support for the engine.
I thought I'd run the squawk by you all to see if anyone has had any similar
experience? Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas what might cause
it ? Any guesses as to whether we are looking at a minor, known problem or
a more serious warning sign of potential catastrophic failure?
Obviously the experts in the shop will be making the decisions surrounding
and inspection/replacement of the stud, but there is a tremendous amount of
expertise here- so I thought I'd solicit..
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2459 (20070814) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
We just had that happen on 14AV, and the 3 broken studs that mount the
#5 jug were found inside the front cown upon opening... A crack at the
top of the case was the cause of the oil leak... The case had to be
replaced... 400 appx hours on this TCM io520...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Here are a few pics of the damage...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
another-1
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
This is a common problem with IO 520s. Just ask any Bonanza or Baron
owner. If anyone is adventurous, the IO550 is reputed to be much better
about this, and costs very little delta to upgrade. It may be worth 500a
owners getting together and doing an STC.
Bummer about TCM. I've had similar experiences. Prefer Lycoming
engines these days, though they aren't as smooth.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Owens
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
We just had that happen on 14AV, and the 3 broken studs that mount the
#5 jug were found inside the front cown upon opening... A crack at the
top of the case was the cause of the oil leak... The case had to be
replaced... 400 appx hours on this TCM io520...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Good idea about the 550... A guy in the hangar here has a Bonanza with
one and he loves it... I guess put out a call for all 12 of the
existing 500A owners left to see what interest might be shown ;)
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
There was a gentleman who went through the effort to get the GO480 put
on the 520s type data sheet as an approved engine. It took about 3
years, but it did get done. I don't know what the real effect of the
experimental designation he had to endure for that period was. It does
appear that after the initial test period (about 40 hours of flying) the
plane was usable for regular flying according to the operating
limitations.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Owens
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Good idea about the 550... A guy in the hangar here has a Bonanza with
one and he loves it... I guess put out a call for all 12 of the
existing 500A owners left to see what interest might be shown ;)
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Hmm, I guess it would be something to think about... a field approval is
probably out of the question. We fly in restricted catagory already
because of odd altitudes and direction in TSA's, I wonder if that would
do it... ;)
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Good Afternoon All,
May I interject another voice favoring the IO-550 engine?
We are currently operating three of them in Bonanzas and find it to be the
best money we ever spent on those airplanes. The airplanes go faster, climb
better and burn less fuel.
How can this all be true?
The engine weighs no more than, and usually less than, any of the IO-470 or
IO-520 engines it is replacing.
In some versions, it is as much as nine pounds lighter.
The 250 HP version of the IO-470C is nine pounds heavier than the 300
horsepower IO-550-B.
It fits in the same space because the spacing of the cylinders on the
crankcase is the same and has been the same since Continental started the fl
at six
program with the E-165 engine.
There is no need to beef the structure because the engine weighs no more.
If the gross weight of the airplane and the limiting speeds are not changed
,
the only structural consideration is the additional torque and that effect
is generally so small that it can be disregarded.
On the Bonanzas, there have been no structural beef ups of any kind needed
when the 550 is replacing a 470 or 520 engine. If the 550 is replacing an
E-series engine, beef up is required due to a sixty pound increase in the we
ight
of the engine over the E-series one.
In most cases, there is very little need for baffling changes for any reaso
n
other than to provide better cooling. Everything fits in the same space!
Most installations will need new baffling because with more power, there
will be more heat developed, but for the Beech products, providing better
cooling has not been a problem, we have more trouble keeping them warm than
we do
keeping them cool.
It goes faster and burns less fuel because the rate of climb is so good tha
t
you will cruise two to four thousand feet higher on any representative stag
e
length flight.
The higher altitude allows the same or slightly higher true airspeed while
using slightly less power. The lower indicated airspeed places the aircraft
closer to best L/D speed while using slightly less power than was needed fo
r
that same true airspeed when operated at a lower altitude.
By pushing the engine a bit harder, you can go faster, but the best way to
take advantage of the more powerful engine is to get up high and take advant
age
of the efficiency that is then available.
The higher power available means that you will almost always be at an
altitude where Lean Of Peak operations are not only practical, but very des
irable.
It really is one of the few win/win engine changes available.
I know the market among the Commanders is so small that it is unlikely any
convertor wants to spend the money required to convince the Federalies of th
e
suitability of such an installation, but I think a TC500 equipped with
IO-550-Bs would be a marvelous machine.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 8/14/2007 1:11:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com writes:
There was a gentleman who went through the effort to get the GO480 put on
the 520s type data sheet as an approved engine. It took about 3 years, but
it
did get done. I don=99t know what the real effect of the experimental
designation he had to endure for that period was. It does appear that afte
r the
initial test period (about 40 hours of flying) the plane was usable for reg
ular
flying according to the operating limitations.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Good idea about the 550... A guy in the hangar here has a Bonanza with one
and he loves it... I guess put out a call for all 12 of the existing 500A
owners left to see what interest might be shown ;
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
t
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
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Cg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy Gilliam" <amg3636(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
A friend of mine had to make an emergency landing last year in a Cessna 182.
Found 2 thru bolts sheared off in the case. They think it was due to over
torque, or uneven torque on all the cylinder thru bolts.
Roland Gilliam
>From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:07:50 -0700
>
>Do you think it would shear off if wasn't over-torqued? If the stud failed
>due to abuse on a previous occasion, perhaps replacing them all might be
>considered. Just guessing.
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
>Randazzo
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 7:50 PM
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
>
>
>Commanders-
>
>
>Seems not ALL the news surrounding N414C's return to flight is good.
>
>
>One of the dozen-or-so squawks that we listed on the airplane after
>purchase
>was that the left engine had a tendency to produce oil in the cowling. The
>usual minor drips and items were found and cleared up during the two year
>down time- and a series of engine runs seemed to corroborate that the oil
>seepage was fixed.
>
>
>Unfortunately- the seepage returned during our test flight of last Friday-
>so today they opened up the cowl and started searching once again. The
>result was that they discovered that one of the mid-case through studs was
>sheered inside the case. Additionally- the inner-most cooling fin on each
>of the #3/#4 cylinders shows a very small impact dent where (we're assuming
>here) the free ends of the stud impacted the fins at the time it sheered?
>
>
>Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day- as the #3/#4 cylinders will get
>pulled- and all of the surrounding area will get a good looking over. As
>would be expected- a call to TCM was rebuffed as they lack the corporate
>responsibility to provide any type of data support for the engine.
>
>
>I thought I'd run the squawk by you all to see if anyone has had any
>similar
>experience? Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas what might cause
>it ? Any guesses as to whether we are looking at a minor, known problem or
>a more serious warning sign of potential catastrophic failure?
>
>
>Obviously the experts in the shop will be making the decisions surrounding
>and inspection/replacement of the stud, but there is a tremendous amount of
>expertise here- so I thought I'd solicit..
>
>
>Robert S. Randazzo
>
>N414C
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Tease your brain--play Clink! Win cool prizes!
http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Good Afternoon Roland,
It might be helpful to check to see if any cylinders had been pulled since
the last build up. Some mechanics skip the part about torqueing the nuts on
the opposing cylinders. I think that is a potential for setting up the uneven
stresses that cause the internal breaks. Just a theory, no extensive data to
show cause and effect though.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 8/14/2007 4:51:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
amg3636(at)hotmail.com writes:
A friend of mine had to make an emergency landing last year in a Cessna 182.
Found 2 thru bolts sheared off in the case. They think it was due to over
torque, or uneven torque on all the cylinder thru bolts.
Roland Gilliam
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nancy Gilliam" <amg3636(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Hi Bob ,
That makes sense, however this was the first time a cylinder had been off
since the major.
Thanks,
Roland
>From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:59:00 EDT
>
>
>Good Afternoon Roland,
>
>It might be helpful to check to see if any cylinders had been pulled since
>the last build up. Some mechanics skip the part about torqueing the nuts
>on
>the opposing cylinders. I think that is a potential for setting up the
>uneven
>stresses that cause the internal breaks. Just a theory, no extensive data
>to
>show cause and effect though.
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Ancient Aviator
>Stearman N3977A
>Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>630 985-8503
>
>
>In a message dated 8/14/2007 4:51:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>amg3636(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
>A friend of mine had to make an emergency landing last year in a Cessna
>182.
>Found 2 thru bolts sheared off in the case. They think it was due to over
>torque, or uneven torque on all the cylinder thru bolts.
>
>Roland Gilliam
>
>
>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
_________________________________________________________________
Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to
win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Continental is notorious for its quality control. Sac Sky Ranch used to
do a whole presentation on this to the EAA chapter. There's no reason to
think this is impossible to happen at the factory.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nancy
Gilliam
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Hi Bob ,
That makes sense, however this was the first time a cylinder had been
off
since the major.
Thanks,
Roland
>From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:59:00 EDT
>
>
>Good Afternoon Roland,
>
>It might be helpful to check to see if any cylinders had been pulled
since
>the last build up. Some mechanics skip the part about torqueing the
nuts
>on
>the opposing cylinders. I think that is a potential for setting up the
>uneven
>stresses that cause the internal breaks. Just a theory, no extensive
data
>to
>show cause and effect though.
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Ancient Aviator
>Stearman N3977A
>Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>630 985-8503
>
>
>In a message dated 8/14/2007 4:51:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>amg3636(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
>A friend of mine had to make an emergency landing last year in a
Cessna
>182.
>Found 2 thru bolts sheared off in the case. They think it was due to
over
>torque, or uneven torque on all the cylinder thru bolts.
>
>Roland Gilliam
>
>
>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
_________________________________________________________________
Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance
to
win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
In a message dated 8/14/2007 5:18:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
amg3636(at)hotmail.com writes:
Hi Bob ,
That makes sense, however this was the first time a cylinder had been off
since the major.
Thanks,
Roland
Strike That One!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
In a message dated 8/14/2007 5:18:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
amg3636(at)hotmail.com writes:
Hi Bob ,
That makes sense, however this was the first time a cylinder had been off
since the major.
Thanks,
Roland
However, I still think under torqueing causes more problems than over
torqueing. Anything that is under torqued gets stretched all the time. If it is
torqued properly, it never moves.
At least, that's the theory.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
Hello,
I fly a Aero Commander 680 FLP with the Mr. RPM Conversion. I'm in
need of a manual for the air conditioning system. It's not the standard
system that came on the plane. I believe it's the same system that is
on an Aero Commander 690. The system is located aft of the baggage
compartment with a compressor turned by an electric motor. (A $6,000
motor...I know, it's been replaced twice) The evaporators are under the
back seat. If anyone knows where I can locate an operation or
maintenance manual or both please let me know. Thank you.
Ray Mansfield
hcourier(at)cox.net
850-217-5185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Through Stud Sheer Pictures... |
Commanders!
Here are a few (not so good) images of the sheered through stud.
It is interesting to note that the stud appears to have been damaged/bent at
some point. Possibly during installation? We found what appear to be
impact marks from a hammer or ram on one end. Go figure.
The internals of the engine appear fine- looks like a brand new engine on
the inside. No metal found in the oil, and the cylinder and pushrods are
fine.
We are trying to get some guidance on what should happen with this engine.
The hope is that the stud can be replaced- and we'll be good-to-go.
I'll keep you all posted.
Robert S. Randazzo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike floyd" <floydgm(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Through Stud Sheer Pictures... |
Robert,
With the expert input you are getting from Moe at Ross Pistons and Myron
Ashley you are receiving. You have more than enough input to figure this
out.
What I have seen before was the bearing shell coming loose in the crankcase
where it is clamped between the the cylinder through studs. The way to check
for that is to use a long probe on the bearing shell and see if there is
obvious movement between the case and the bearing.
Also examine the crankcase where the stud came out for cracks per David
Owens. They don't call them Crackinentals for nothing.
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to
win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Folks,
Is an STC really necessary, has anybody explored a field upgrade.
I say this, because several upgrades with which I have been involved
in Australian (not AC) have been done on our (near) equivalent of a
377 field approval system, with the appropriate CAR 35 (DER) input.
As a simplification, it is assumed that the extra power will be a
"bonus", there was no attempt to re-certify any increased performance.
This has avoided the need to re-determine Vmc figures etc., if the
upgrade is a twin.
I know it all sound a bit rough and ready, but there is little
involved in putting the IO-520 in the 500A, I doubt that the IO-550
is much more of a bother, with a co-operative FAA man.
Needless to say, one would be wise to have some carefully established
"informal guidelines", if in fact you just happened to be
"inadvertently" taking advantage of the additional HP, and one quit.
Fortunately the wonderful engine out handling of Aero Commanders in
general make this somewhat less fraught than some other
manufacturer's products that started with IO-470, but have acquired
IO-520 along the way.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 03:24 AM 15/08/2007, you wrote:
>Good idea about the 550... A guy in the hangar here has a Bonanza
>with one and he loves it... I guess put out a call for all 12 of
>the existing 500A owners left to see what interest might be shown ;)
>
>
>David Owens
>Aerial Viewpoint
>N14AV
>AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N$!$C in the air |
| From: | "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com> |
About time you got it back in the air.
I always suspected I was a bit heavy. The recent TOLD spreadsheet that Nico posted
is for N414C (assuming correct weight)
How is the presurisation working?
Id love to put one of those 520Ks on my F1 Rocket.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129295#129295
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Folks,
An advertisement in the Australian Aviation Trader, thought it might
interest somebody.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HARTZELL HC-A3V 20-2 out of Aero Commander 560E, two props. 235hrs.
SOH both Phone (03) 9764 3514
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From outside Australia that would be +61 3 9764 3514.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
Ray,
If all else fails, you might try contacting Dick Mackoon. If needed I can
look up his phone number for you.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Mansfield
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:54 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC Manual
Hello,
I fly a Aero Commander 680 FLP with the Mr. RPM Conversion. I'm in need
of a manual for the air conditioning system. It's not the standard system
that came on the plane. I believe it's the same system that is on an Aero
Commander 690. The system is located aft of the baggage compartment with a
compressor turned by an electric motor. (A $6,000 motor...I know, it's been
replaced twice) The evaporators are under the back seat. If anyone knows
where I can locate an operation or maintenance manual or both please let me
know. Thank you.
Ray Mansfield
hcourier(at)cox.net
850-217-5185
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Ray,
I emailed Dick MacCoon (MR RPM) about your email and he says:
"The air conditioners were custom built from I believe a common air
conditioner at that time. I would suggest contacting Gary Gadberry
(aircntr(at)aol.com) who has a very modern system and lots of experience
with designs."
Hope that helps!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Mansfield
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:54 AM
Subject: Commander-List: AC Manual
Hello,
I fly a Aero Commander 680 FLP with the Mr. RPM Conversion. I'm
in need of a manual for the air conditioning system. It's not the
standard system that came on the plane. I believe it's the same system
that is on an Aero Commander 690. The system is located aft of the
baggage compartment with a compressor turned by an electric motor. (A
$6,000 motor...I know, it's been replaced twice) The evaporators are
under the back seat. If anyone knows where I can locate an operation or
maintenance manual or both please let me know. Thank you.
Ray Mansfield
hcourier(at)cox.net
850-217-5185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | More Weight & Balance Follies |
500 Series drivers.....
Weight & Balance turned out to be far more complex for our machine than
I could have first thought. Since I posted a version of a spreadsheet
out there, I feel obliged to share what I've learned so far, and offer
the latest version of the sheet. Many of you may not care, and the
information may not be new to you if you've complied with appropriate
bulletins all along..... There could be a couple of old B's or
conversions to B that this might be especially relevant to.
Our comedy of errors may have started with the factory not having
recognized our aircraft as a 'real' 500B, because the airframe was
converted from a 500A under STC.
There have been several changes made that impact the envelope since the
machines were first built.
While we were operating using the Weight and Moment Allowables table in
our AFM, by 1973 it appears that the table was already referencing
Service Bulletin 128 and 129, and publishing two tables in parallel, one
for aircraft complying with S.B. 128 or 129, and one for aircraft not in
compliance. S.B. 128 and 129 was the bobweight bulletin. Apparently,
quickly pulling full aft on the elevator to maximum travel was bad. (Who
knew?)
The new table allowed for an expanded forward envelope, and appears to
have tucked the aft in a little.
The Bobweight Bulletins eventually became an Airworthiness Directive for
all the aircraft somewhere around 1975(?).
Then in 1984, Service Bulletin 199 was released. S.B. 199 was a revised
Weight and Moment Allowables table for 500B, 500S and 500U aircraft.
This bulletin would seem to have codified the expanded envelope to the
B, S, & U (presumably all now in compliance with S.B. 128/129) to
"prevent inadvertent operation of the aircraft outside approved center
of gravity limits".
Again, in a table from a 500B AFM forwarded to us from 1973, the two
envelopes were published in parallel. But manuals prior to this
publication may be the old table. With just a small change to the aft
C.G. and a much narrower forward C.G., the primary trouble would be the
ease in which the aircraft can run forward of the old envelope (as
was/is the case with our aircraft.)
I've not researched the 500A thoroughly enough, but believe the elevator
travel was modified as part of the requirements to bring us into B
status. This alone could restrict the A from operating with as forward a
C.G. as the new tables for the B and up....
I've changed the spreadsheet to reflect the best information I presently
have. I am not an engineer, and don't wish to pretend to be one. Please
use the data, tables and sheets with caution.
As an aside, I believe I've uncovered some serious mistakes in old
weight & balance paperwork involving a camera installation under STC.
Luckily the installation included a fresh weighing of the aircraft that
provided a baseline all up with fuel for all these years. Had the
numbers been for real, the thing should have resembled a lawn dart a
long time ago. We're going to reweigh again.
Steve Welebny
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
FAA doesn't allow field approvals for engines.
One the other hand, an STC should be a piece of cake if one could find
a candidate (victim) aircraft to do the flight testing.
BTW, Bob, I wonder if anyone could get Beryl DeShannon's assistance in
providing the engineering data, since they've already got it for
upgrading Barons and Bananas? That would make the issue largely a paper
chase.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W J R
HAMILTON
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:38 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Folks,
Is an STC really necessary, has anybody explored a field upgrade.
I say this, because several upgrades with which I have been involved in
Australian (not AC) have been done on our (near) equivalent of a 377
field approval system, with the appropriate CAR 35 (DER) input.
As a simplification, it is assumed that the extra power will be a
"bonus", there was no attempt to re-certify any increased performance.
This has avoided the need to re-determine Vmc figures etc., if the
upgrade is a twin.
I know it all sound a bit rough and ready, but there is little involved
in putting the IO-520 in the 500A, I doubt that the IO-550 is much more
of a bother, with a co-operative FAA man.
Needless to say, one would be wise to have some carefully established
"informal guidelines", if in fact you just happened to be
"inadvertently" taking advantage of the additional HP, and one quit.
Fortunately the wonderful engine out handling of Aero Commanders in
general make this somewhat less fraught than some other manufacturer's
products that started with IO-470, but have acquired IO-520 along the
way.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 03:24 AM 15/08/2007, you wrote:
Good idea about the 550... A guy in the hangar here has a Bonanza with
one and he loves it... I guess put out a call for all 12 of the
existing 500A owners left to see what interest might be shown ;)
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
There is no way to really know what happened.? I don't believe that Continental
requires that the thru bolts be changed at O/H (they should be).? Event though
this is the first cyl to be remove after this O/H, that stud could easily have
been torqued a dozen times in it's service life.? These engines are known for
cyl failures.? So, I would strongly suggest that you replace both thru bolts
at that station.?Good luck? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: David Owens <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 9:18 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Here are a few pics of the damage...
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flight Load Factors |
Hello One & All,
>From various sources, I have traced the "Positive" Flight Load Factors
for, without checking them, all the different Commander Models.
But, it seems that some sources also quote the "Negative" Flight Load
Factors, but this does not seem to be published for all Models.
Has anybody any ideas as how to get this information?
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
This is a turbocharged engine, yes?
Many a twin engine pilot's hanger story start with the words "I knew I
had an engine problem when I saw the cylinder go through the cowling".
Not much comfort, but I suppose it could have been worse.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
There is no way to really know what happened. I don't believe that
Continental requires that the thru bolts be changed at O/H (they should
be). Event though this is the first cyl to be remove after this O/H,
that stud could easily have been torqued a dozen times in it's service
life. These engines are known for cyl failures. So, I would strongly
suggest that you replace both thru bolts at that station. Good luck jb
-----Original Message-----
From: David Owens <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 9:18 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
Here are a few pics of the damage...
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Through-Stud Sheer... |
Bruce
That happened to me two years ago... Same story opener...
Robert S. Randazzo
Precision Manuals Development Group
http://www.precisionmanuals.com
On Aug 15, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Bruce Campbell
wrote:
> This is a turbocharged engine, yes?
>
>
> Many a twin engine pilot=99s hanger story start with the words
=9CI
> knew I had an engine problem when I saw the cylinder go through the
> cowling=9D. Not much comfort, but I suppose it could have
been wors
> e.
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:27 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
>
>
> There is no way to really know what happened. I don't believe that
> Continental requires that the thru bolts be changed at O/H (they
> should be). Event though this is the first cyl to be remove after
> this O/H, that stud could easily have been torqued a dozen times in
> it's service life. These engines are known for cyl failures. So, I
> would strongly suggest that you replace both thru bolts at that
> station. Good luck jb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Owens <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 9:18 am
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Through-Stud Sheer...
>
> Here are a few pics of the damage...
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Myron Ashley" <mashley2(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Through Stud Sheer Pictures... |
Hello Robert,
It is hard to tell from the pictures but it appears that the failure is due
to fatigue and not excess load. Fatigue, in this application, typically can
be caused in two ways. One, the part has been in service to long (to many
cycles, this is hard to do with steel parts) or the part was not properly
torqued and vibration caused the cycle loading to become exponential,
therefore causing fatigue cycle failure. I simplified this explanation to
keep from putting you to sleep.
It makes you wonder if the torque was correct at first, but after operating
the engine, the mating parts of the engine "seated" against each other
thereby causing the stud or studs to become loose.
You might think about re-torqueing the new studs after ground run. This
would ensure that everything has had a chance to go through a thermal and
vibration cycle.
I hope this helps,
Myron Ashley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:56 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Through Stud Sheer Pictures...
> Commanders!
>
> Here are a few (not so good) images of the sheered through stud.
>
> It is interesting to note that the stud appears to have been damaged/bent
at
> some point. Possibly during installation? We found what appear to be
> impact marks from a hammer or ram on one end. Go figure.
>
> The internals of the engine appear fine- looks like a brand new engine on
> the inside. No metal found in the oil, and the cylinder and pushrods are
> fine.
>
> We are trying to get some guidance on what should happen with this engine.
> The hope is that the stud can be replaced- and we'll be good-to-go.
>
> I'll keep you all posted.
>
> Robert S. Randazzo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Through Stud Sheer Pictures... |
Myron, Moe, et al-
Thanks for your input. We had the piece examined by a metallurgist and his
assessment was the same. He felt the part was likely damaged during a
previous removal- and was subsequently forced into this engine build. End
result being that the part failed...
We were able secure input from TCM today- (good contacts are worth their
weight in gold!) and their technical assessment was to replace the stud, and
the opposing cylinders/pistons/pushrods at that location. Once those are
installed- they provided a test to ensure that the bearing is within
limits....
This engine has <400hrs, so this will be a relatively low cost repair given
my initial expectations. Of course- it's another two weeks or so before we
can re-commence flight testing.
Thanks for your input, gents- it is always good to have corroborating
information.
Robert S. Randazzo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Myron Ashley
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Through Stud Sheer Pictures...
Hello Robert,
It is hard to tell from the pictures but it appears that the failure is due
to fatigue and not excess load. Fatigue, in this application, typically can
be caused in two ways. One, the part has been in service to long (to many
cycles, this is hard to do with steel parts) or the part was not properly
torqued and vibration caused the cycle loading to become exponential,
therefore causing fatigue cycle failure. I simplified this explanation to
keep from putting you to sleep.
It makes you wonder if the torque was correct at first, but after operating
the engine, the mating parts of the engine "seated" against each other
thereby causing the stud or studs to become loose.
You might think about re-torqueing the new studs after ground run. This
would ensure that everything has had a chance to go through a thermal and
vibration cycle.
I hope this helps,
Myron Ashley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:56 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Through Stud Sheer Pictures...
> Commanders!
>
> Here are a few (not so good) images of the sheered through stud.
>
> It is interesting to note that the stud appears to have been damaged/bent
at
> some point. Possibly during installation? We found what appear to be
> impact marks from a hammer or ram on one end. Go figure.
>
> The internals of the engine appear fine- looks like a brand new engine on
> the inside. No metal found in the oil, and the cylinder and pushrods are
> fine.
>
> We are trying to get some guidance on what should happen with this engine.
> The hope is that the stud can be replaced- and we'll be good-to-go.
>
> I'll keep you all posted.
>
> Robert S. Randazzo
>
>
__________ NOD32 2465 (20070816) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello All,
I have booked my flights for the Fly-In, but I have a minor problem, so
am looking for a little 'local' advice.
I will be arriving at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, but not
until 22:39hrs on Wednesday September 19th.
My 'problem' is how to then get to Fredericksburg.
It seems as though if I pick up a rental car at Austin, a $250 drop-off
fee will be added for returning it in Fredericksburg.
So, it would seem that the only viable option will be to get a cab from
Austin to Fredericksburg.
Although this may seem expensive, it may work out cheaper than renting a
car.
My question is whether anyone can give me an indication of the cost of
the cab ride.
I can then decide what to do!
Of course, if I do rent a car, I can probably help anyone else who has a
similar 'problem' when arriving on the Thursday ;-)
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
bc, if you are going through d/fw to aus, stay with me that night and ride
down with me on thur. mason
From: barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.ukTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubjec
t: Commander-List: Fly-In - help!Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:26:39 +0100
Hello All,
I have booked my flights for the Fly-In, but I have a minor problem, so am
looking for a little 'local' advice.
I will be arriving at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, but not until
22:39hrs on Wednesday September 19th.
My 'problem' is how to then get to Fredericksburg.
It seems as though if I pick up a rental car at Austin, a $250 drop-off fee
will be added for returning it in Fredericksburg.
So, it would seem that the only viable option will be to get a cab from Aus
tin to Fredericksburg.
Although this may seem expensive, it may work out cheaper than renting a ca
r.
My question is whether anyone can give me an indication of the cost of the
cab ride.
I can then decide what to do!
Of course, if I do rent a car, I can probably help anyone else who has a si
milar 'problem' when arriving on the Thursday ;-)
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fly-In - help! |
Hi Mason,
That really is most kind of you, but my flight will be from
London-Heathrow to Chicago, then direct to Austin.
I wanted to come over before the Thursday, so I could get photos etc as
the Commanders arrive.
I've found in previous years that they are often parked so close
together it is difficult to get a good angle for the photos.
This way, I can get some good shots before they are towed to the parking
area.
I do really seriously appreciate your offer though.
Looking forward to meeting you at long last!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fly-In - help!
bc, if you are going through d/fw to aus, stay with me that night and
ride down with me on thur. mason
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Fly-In - help!
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:26:39 +0100
Hello All,
I have booked my flights for the Fly-In, but I have a minor problem,
so am looking for a little 'local' advice.
I will be arriving at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, but
not until 22:39hrs on Wednesday September 19th.
My 'problem' is how to then get to Fredericksburg.
It seems as though if I pick up a rental car at Austin, a $250
drop-off fee will be added for returning it in Fredericksburg.
So, it would seem that the only viable option will be to get a cab
from Austin to Fredericksburg.
Although this may seem expensive, it may work out cheaper than
renting a car.
My question is whether anyone can give me an indication of the cost
of the cab ride.
I can then decide what to do!
Of course, if I do rent a car, I can probably help anyone else who
has a similar 'problem' when arriving on the Thursday ;-)
Very Best Regards,
Barry
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
p://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Hi Barry,
My situation is that I cannot make early reservations because of business
pressure, which means it's not certain that I would be there, but my plan
was to travel to Austin, rent a car for the round trip, because I will be
flying out of Austin back to Los Angeles again. If that happens, you are
more than welcome to travel with me either or both of the legs between
Austing and Fredericksburg. The kicker is that I won't know for sure that I
will be able to make the trip until the first week of September. So, if by
that time you are still without options, and I am able to make the trip, you
are welcome to join me.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:27 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fly-In - help!
Hello All,
I have booked my flights for the Fly-In, but I have a minor problem, so am
looking for a little 'local' advice.
I will be arriving at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, but not until
22:39hrs on Wednesday September 19th.
My 'problem' is how to then get to Fredericksburg.
It seems as though if I pick up a rental car at Austin, a $250 drop-off fee
will be added for returning it in Fredericksburg.
So, it would seem that the only viable option will be to get a cab from
Austin to Fredericksburg.
Although this may seem expensive, it may work out cheaper than renting a
car.
My question is whether anyone can give me an indication of the cost of the
cab ride.
I can then decide what to do!
Of course, if I do rent a car, I can probably help anyone else who has a
similar 'problem' when arriving on the Thursday ;-)
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike floyd" <floydgm(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 500A IO-550 Conversion |
Merlyn Products currently has an IO-550 STC project in the works for the
500A. Rumor has it anyway.
Mike
Northern Commanders LLC
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene-0607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | 500A IO-550 Conversion |
Very interesting, Mike.
If you look on the TCFG website (www.aerocommander.com) click on Aircraft
Models > Piston Twins > 500 A Colemill, you will see that I posted a picture
of what I believed at the time to be of a 500A Colemill. The specs, however,
are of a straight 500A because I had nothing on the Colemill.
You will also see that there are some pictures of a 500B Merlyn with its
four-blade props and all. The specs on the Merlyn page are of a straight
500B because I have nothing on the Merlyn either. (Does anyone have specs
and history on these models?)
Do you know whether what I have on the website are genuine Colemill and
Merlyn mods or are they experimental aircraft? Also, do you know how the
Merlyn would stack up against the Colemill, in your opinion?
Thanks
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike floyd
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:09 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 500A IO-550 Conversion
Merlyn Products currently has an IO-550 STC project in the works for the
500A. Rumor has it anyway.
Mike
Northern Commanders LLC
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more..then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater
&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene-060
7&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike floyd" <floydgm(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 500A IO-550 Conversion |
I do not know the answers to all of your questions but here is the website I
have found:
http://www.merlynproducts.com/commander.html
I am in Spokane right now and will find out on Monday what Merlyn is doing.
Mike
Northern Commanders LLC
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene-0607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello All,
Model 680E s/n 680E-666-10 was reported as being with Quest Aviation, at
Lake City, Florida in April 2004.
This one was originally N6258B and was then exported to Colombia in
September 1978 as HK-2173X then HK-2173P.
It has now been identified as "MT-1802", being a Mexican Navy serial and
was photographed at Vera Cruz in Mexico in November 2001, outside what
is believed to be a technical school.
So, has anyone seen this 680E at Lake City?
I did email Quest Aviation in May this year, asking them about this
Commander, but never received a reply. (jeff@quest-aviation.com)
If anyone knows this outfit, could they make enquiries about this 680E
for me?
Is it being restored for sale?
Can they confirm its previous history?
Very Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 500A IO-550 Conversion |
Hi Nico,
By clicking on "Aircraft Models > Piston Twins > 500A Colemill", I
couldn't find a photo of the Colemill 500A (Colemill Super 300), but did
find photos of the Merlyn 500B. (Aircraft Models > Piston Twins > 500B
Merlyn).
Let me know the registration of the Colemill 500A and I'll check it out.
Merlyn Commanders
The Merlyn 500B pictured is almost certainly s/n 1155-84, N6258X.
While owned by Jerry W Rodgers and PG&E Inc., this had Lycoming
TIO-540-J2B(D) 350hp engines with Hartzell HC-C4YR-2UF/FC6660 4-blade
propellers, signed-off as installed on August 23rd 1995.
These propellers are of 69.75 in. diameter, vs. the usual 80 in. of the
standard 500A props.
Must make for a quieter cabin, unless the increase in fuselage/prop
clearance is eaten away by an extra blade being involved.
There were Experimental - Market Survey Certificates issued on March
14th 1997 and June 11th 1997, before one in the Standard - Normal
category was issued on October 7th 1997.
Jerry kindly flew me from Nashville to Oklahoma City in this Commander
after the Fly-In in June 1997. He had also attended the Fly-In held at
San Antonio the previous year.
I think there's now an STC for this, SA5969NM, covering the 500B, 500U &
500S.
Model 500S serial numbers 3155, 3255 & 3319 have also had this engine
installed.
Model 500B serial numbers 999-30 and 1525-187 have had Lycoming
TIO-540-AE2A(MC) 350hp engines with Hartzell HC-C3YR-2UF/FC8468 or
FC8468-6 propellers installed. This enables a Gross weight increase to
7,200lb under STC SA01212SE.
I would really like to get some performance figures for Commanders with
these two engines.
Colemill Commanders
The 500A can be modified to a Colemill "Super 300" under STCs SA340SO
and SA366SO. These also approve a GW increase from 6,000lb to 6,530lb.
(Other 500A Models can have a GW increase from 6,000lb to 6,250lb if
Service Change No. 50 is accomplished.)
Of the 99 examples built of the 500A, at least 21 have been converted to
500B and 31 modified to Colemill "Super 300".
Additionally, the first of these 99 was converted to the first Model
680F. (s/n 500A-871-1 to 680F-871-1).
The Colemill conversion replaces the Continental IO-470-M 260hp engines
with Continental IO-520-E 300hp engines.
The original Hartzell HC-A2XF-2B/8433-4 propellers are also replaced,
with Hartzell EHC-A3VF-2B/V7636D.
Again, some performance feed-back for the Colemill examples will be
welcome.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 5:13 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A IO-550 Conversion
|
| Very interesting, Mike.
| If you look on the TCFG website (www.aerocommander.com) click on
Aircraft
| Models > Piston Twins > 500 A Colemill, you will see that I posted a
picture
| of what I believed at the time to be of a 500A Colemill. The specs,
however,
| are of a straight 500A because I had nothing on the Colemill.
| You will also see that there are some pictures of a 500B Merlyn with
its
| four-blade props and all. The specs on the Merlyn page are of a
straight
| 500B because I have nothing on the Merlyn either. (Does anyone have
specs
| and history on these models?)
| Do you know whether what I have on the website are genuine Colemill
and
| Merlyn mods or are they experimental aircraft? Also, do you know how
the
| Merlyn would stack up against the Colemill, in your opinion?
| Thanks
| Nico
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
| [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike
floyd
| Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:09 PM
| To: Commander-List(at)matronics.com
| Subject: Commander-List: 500A IO-550 Conversion
|
|
| Merlyn Products currently has an IO-550 STC project in the works for
the
| 500A. Rumor has it anyway.
|
| Mike
| Northern Commanders LLC
|
| _________________________________________________________________
| Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more..then map the best
route!
|
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20
theater
|
&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1
000&scene-060
| 7&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | 500A IO-550 Conversion |
Mike,
I visited Merlyn's website and found many interesting things, which answered
some of my questions. I am going to contact these folks for more information
and permission to publish some of their material on our website.
It appears as if these STC's are existing and flying mods. Perhaps if Bilbo
had known about these, he could have had his 500A dressed up in one of
these.
Thanks for introducing me to them.
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike floyd
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 9:35 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A IO-550 Conversion
I do not know the answers to all of your questions but here is the website I
have found:
http://www.merlynproducts.com/commander.html
I am in Spokane right now and will find out on Monday what Merlyn is doing.
Mike
Northern Commanders LLC
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more..then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater
&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene-060
7&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | 500A IO-550 Conversion |
Thanks, Barry. There's a lot of useful information from your bunker of
Commander intelligence about these products. I would like to incorporate
that into the website, with your permission.
I posted my reply to Mike Floyd before I read your email.
July 26, 2007 - August 18, 2007
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-cm