Commander-Archive.digest.vol-cp
October 26, 2007 - November 11, 2007
bottom when the engine is cold. As the engine (cyl) warms to operating
temp, the cyl bore will become straight. This is why it is very
important to properly warm an aircraft engine before applying power. If
the cyl temps are not 'in the green", the choke will still be in the cyl
bore. As the rings reach the top of the cyl, they will be squeezed in
and out. This can also break a ring or scar the cyl walls.
I think a more likely possibility is that the wrong rings may have been
installed. The damage you describe is consistent with that. There are
two major ring types, chrome and iron. Chrome rings are used only in
steel cyl, and vice versa. If chrome rings are installed in chrome cyl,
no seating will ever occur. The shop who tore your engines down should
have checked this very first. Second would be that the rings were
installed up-side-down (the part number should be up, toward the top of
the piston) Most modern rings are a chevron design and are ground so
that combustion pressure causes the ring to expand and seal more tightly
in the cyl. If the are not installed properly, they will allow
combustion gasses to freely pass the rings. This too should have been
checked as a most likely culprit. Beyond that, ????
Did Morris build up the cyls, or did a cyl shop. If the cyl came as an
assembly, the rings would have been installed by them and all Morris
would have done is bolt them on the engine??
I have worked with Morris an many projects and find him to be, without a
doubt, the most knowledgeable Commander mechanic alive today. He has as
much field experience with the geared lycomings as anyone. He is
however human and like all of us can make mistakes. I don't know what
happened to you engines, but I would not rest until I found out.
Someone should be able to determine this for you Randy. I too look
forward to you having your airplane back in the fleet, I feel so bad
that all this had to happen to you. Good luck
jb
-----Original Message-----
| From: | Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Sent: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 2:03 pm
| Subject: | Engine Failures Update |
Back in February, I reported to the group my experience in losing the
left engine in my 680F while experiencing trouble with the right engine
- at the same time.=C2- Here=99s an update.
After losing oil through the breather, with serious loss of oil
pressure, the left engine threw a rod (the rod separated at the
crank).=C2- The right engine lost 2-3 gallons through the breather
during the previous one hour leg, and made so much metal it must be
re-built.=C2- Here=99s the scenario - both engines lost a huge
amount of oil through the breathers (the crank cases became
pressurized), both incidents occurred at the same time, at 5.5. hrs
after the annual inspection.=C2- Both engines had cylinders replaced
during the annual inspection (2 on the right, 1 on the left).=C2-
I cannot believe that these episodes are a coincidence.
My mechanic (ex-mechanic now), Morris Kernick (who has maintained the
airplane for the past 7 years) did not put the required break-in oil in
the engines after cylinder replacement (as specifically recommended by
Lycoming).=C2- He says that it is not necessary.=C2- Several engine
experts who have examined the rings in the replaced cylinders indicate
that they look too =9Cused=9D to be 5.5. hours old.=C2-
Morris and the cylinder shop deny that they are used.=C2- Central
Cylinder in Omaha, NE is currently re-building the engines (at $50K
each).=C2- They indicate that the cylinder walls are glazed, which is
caused by over heating, and can be a cause of excessive
=9Cblow-by=9D and crankcase pressurization.=C2- I have
always been very careful about temps, so the only time the engines could
be overheated is during a ground test run.=C2- Morris Kernick has not
taken any responsibility for the situation.=C2- I have been very
disappointed in his lack of support and accountability.=C2- He has
been virtually silent since the incident.=C2- I have had to call him
each time to discuss the situation. He has not called me once.=C2- He
says that nothing he did caused the failures.=C2- Whether or not
Morris caused the problems, I would have expected him to stand behind
his work and to at least do his best to trouble shoot the problems and
help me with a solution.=C2- We still do not know definitely what
caused the failures.=C2- Morris did give me an engine core, which I
would value at around $15-20K.=C2- I believe that he is hoping that
the engine core will be a cheap way out of being accountable for the
work leaving his shop.=C2- At this time, I am still analyzing options
to recover some of the significant expenses incurred because of this
incident.
In any case, I wanted to share my story.=C2- I have always liked
Morris, and have appreciated his vast knowledge about Commanders.=C2-
Morris does not have an A&P license, and relies on his employee to sign
off all work done in his shop.=C2- I believe this situation may be a
result of his conviction for falsifying maintenance records.=C2-
Because of these factors, and my recent experience, I cannot trust him
to provide me with competent service =93 service that is so
important to the safety and lives of the people that I carry in my
airplane.=C2- I feel obligated to share these details with my fellow
Commander owners, so that you can make your own conclusions.
The engines should be completed in several more weeks, and will be
shipped to SNS and installed on the airplane by Dave Teeters at
Airmotive Specialties.=C2- I am looking forward to getting N6253X back
in the air.=C2- It=99s been a long 7 months.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F/N6253X
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA=C2- 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
<http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/>
_____
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nci
d=AOLAOF00020000000970> !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures Update |
Randy, Jimbob,
One thing I would like to ask, to clarify: I understand that the failed
rod was NOT on any of the cylinders that Morris replaced, is that
correct? I heard that the failed rod was on an adjacent cylinder to the
replaced one.
How would all the causes listed below affect a cylinder that wasn't
replaced? Can a new cylinder have negative effects on adjacent jugs?
Cheers,
/John
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> HI RANDY. I am so sorry to hear of the loss of BOTH engines. I have
> to agree that it seems unlikely that it was a coincidence, but not
> impossible. I wanted to comment on a couple of the posts. I think it
> is unlikely that the event was caused by using a detergent type oil.
> In my 31 years as an A&P, I have changed many dozen cylinders, and
> never changed to mineral oil. A wise old mechanic I learned from
> taught me that if less that 1/2 of the cyl. were changed, it was nor
> required that the oil be changed. I have no idea what difference that
> makes, but in all the cyl I changed, I had not even one that did not
> seat properly. I have even changed many cyl without installing new
> rings, like if you just needed to do some valve work. He taught that
> if the cyl and rings were installed completely dry, no oil of any
> kind, the used rings would re-seat themselves (in the same jug they
> had originally run) and they always did. I have a couple jugs on my
> P&W 985 now that were done that way and running strong.
> I also doubt that heat is the problem. Morris Kernick has scolded me
> for running my engines to long on the ground, so I find it hard to
> believe he would do that??
> Last was tight ring gap. The minimum ring gap is set by the mfg for
> cold weather ops. The cyl will shrink considerably in cold weather (0
> F and below) If the ring gap is too small, the rings will touch each
> other and may brake. Many cyl are manufactured with a "choke" meaning
> that the bore is smaller at the top of the piston stroke than at the
> bottom when the engine is cold. As the engine (cyl) warms to
> operating temp, the cyl bore will become straight. This is why it is
> very important to properly warm an aircraft engine before applying
> power. If the cyl temps are not 'in the green", the choke will still
> be in the cyl bore. As the rings reach the top of the cyl, they will
> be squeezed in and out. This can also break a ring or scar the cyl
> walls.
> I think a more likely possibility is that the wrong rings may have
> been installed. The damage you describe is consistent with that.
> There are two major ring types, chrome and iron. Chrome rings are
> used only in steel cyl, and vice versa. If chrome rings are installed
> in chrome cyl, no seating will ever occur. The shop who tore your
> engines down should have checked this very first. Second would be
> that the rings were installed up-side-down (the part number should be
> up, toward the top of the piston) Most modern rings are a chevron
> design and are ground so that combustion pressure causes the ring to
> expand and seal more tightly in the cyl. If the are not installed
> properly, they will allow combustion gasses to freely pass the rings.
> This too should have been checked as a most likely culprit. Beyond
> that, ????
> Did Morris build up the cyls, or did a cyl shop. If the cyl came as
> an assembly, the rings would have been installed by them and all
> Morris would have done is bolt them on the engine??
> I have worked with Morris an many projects and find him to be, without
> a doubt, the most knowledgeable Commander mechanic alive today. He
> has as much field experience with the geared lycomings as anyone. He
> is however human and like all of us can make mistakes. I don't know
> what happened to you engines, but I would not rest until I found out.
> Someone should be able to determine this for you Randy. I too look
> forward to you having your airplane back in the fleet, I feel so bad
> that all this had to happen to you. Good luck
>
> jb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> To: Commander Chat
> Sent: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 2:03 pm
> Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update
>
> Back in February, I reported to the group my experience in losing the
> left engine in my 680F while experiencing trouble with the right
> engine - at the same time. Heres an update.
>
> After losing oil through the breather, with serious loss of oil
> pressure, the left engine threw a rod (the rod separated at the
> crank). The right engine lost 2-3 gallons through the breather during
> the previous one hour leg, and made so much metal it must be
> re-built. Heres the scenario - both engines lost a huge amount of
> oil through the breathers (the crank cases became pressurized), both
> incidents occurred at the same time, at 5.5. hrs after the annual
> inspection. Both engines had cylinders replaced during the annual
> inspection (2 on the right, 1 on the left).
>
> I cannot believe that these episodes are a coincidence.
>
> My mechanic (ex-mechanic now), Morris Kernick (who has maintained the
> airplane for the past 7 years) did not put the required break-in oil
> in the engines after cylinder replacement (as specifically recommended
> by Lycoming). He says that it is not necessary. Several engine
> experts who have examined the rings in the replaced cylinders indicate
> that they look too used to be 5.5. hours old. Morris and the
> cylinder shop deny that they are used. Central Cylinder in Omaha, NE
> is currently re-building the engines (at $50K each). They indicate
> that the cylinder walls are glazed, which is caused by over heating,
> and can be a cause of excessive blow-by and crankcase
> pressurization. I have always been very careful about temps, so the
> only time the engines could be overheated is during a ground test
> run. Morris Kernick has not taken any responsibility for the
> situation. I have been very disappointed in his lack of support and
> accountability. He has been virtually silent since the incident. I
> have had to call him each time to discuss the situation. He has not
> called me once. He says that nothing he did caused the failures.
> Whether or not Morris caused the problems, I would have expected him
> to stand behind his work and to at least do his best to trouble shoot
> the problems and help me with a solution. We still do not know
> definitely what caused the failures. Morris did give me an engine
> core, which I would value at around $15-20K. I believe that he is
> hoping that the engine core will be a cheap way out of being
> accountable for the work leaving his shop. At this time, I am still
> analyzing options to recover some of the significant expenses incurred
> because of this incident.
>
> In any case, I wanted to share my story. I have always liked Morris,
> and have appreciated his vast knowledge about Commanders. Morris does
> not have an A&P license, and relies on his employee to sign off all
> work done in his shop. I believe this situation may be a result of
> his conviction for falsifying maintenance records. Because of these
> factors, and my recent experience, I cannot trust him to provide me
> with competent service service that is so important to the safety
> and lives of the people that I carry in my airplane. I feel obligated
> to share these details with my fellow Commander owners, so that you
> can make your own conclusions.
>
> The engines should be completed in several more weeks, and will be
> shipped to SNS and installed on the airplane by Dave Teeters at
> Airmotive Specialties. I am looking forward to getting N6253X back in
> the air. Its been a long 7 months.
>
> Randy Dettmer, AIA
> 680F/N6253X
>
> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail Signature"
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Failures Update |
The failed rod was on the number 6 cylinder. The replaced cylinder was next to
the failed rod/cylinder. There is still much mystery as to what caused the rod
to fail. We know it was not because of lack of lubrication, even though the
engine was spewing oil out the breather. It apparently failed before all oil
was lost.
RD
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update
Randy, Jimbob,
One thing I would like to ask, to clarify: I understand that the failed
rod was NOT on any of the cylinders that Morris replaced, is that
correct? I heard that the failed rod was on an adjacent cylinder to the
replaced one.
How would all the causes listed below affect a cylinder that wasn't
replaced? Can a new cylinder have negative effects on adjacent jugs?
Cheers,
/John
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> HI RANDY. I am so sorry to hear of the loss of BOTH engines. I have
> to agree that it seems unlikely that it was a coincidence, but not
> impossible. I wanted to comment on a couple of the posts. I think it
> is unlikely that the event was caused by using a detergent type oil.
> In my 31 years as an A&P, I have changed many dozen cylinders, and
> never changed to mineral oil. A wise old mechanic I learned from
> taught me that if less that 1/2 of the cyl. were changed, it was nor
> required that the oil be changed. I have no idea what difference that
> makes, but in all the cyl I changed, I had not even one that did not
> seat properly. I have even changed many cyl without installing new
> rings, like if you just needed to do some valve work. He taught that
> if the cyl and rings were installed completely dry, no oil of any
> kind, the used rings would re-seat themselves (in the same jug they
> had originally run) and they always did. I have a couple jugs on my
> P&W 985 now that were done that way and running strong.
> I also doubt that heat is the problem. Morris Kernick has scolded me
> for running my engines to long on the ground, so I find it hard to
> believe he would do that??
> Last was tight ring gap. The minimum ring gap is set by the mfg for
> cold weather ops. The cyl will shrink considerably in cold weather (0
> F and below) If the ring gap is too small, the rings will touch each
> other and may brake. Many cyl are manufactured with a "choke" meaning
> that the bore is smaller at the top of the piston stroke than at the
> bottom when the engine is cold. As the engine (cyl) warms to
> operating temp, the cyl bore will become straight. This is why it is
> very important to properly warm an aircraft engine before applying
> power. If the cyl temps are not 'in the green", the choke will still
> be in the cyl bore. As the rings reach the top of the cyl, they will
> be squeezed in and out. This can also break a ring or scar the cyl
> walls.
> I think a more likely possibility is that the wrong rings may have
> been installed. The damage you describe is consistent with that.
> There are two major ring types, chrome and iron. Chrome rings are
> used only in steel cyl, and vice versa. If chrome rings are installed
> in chrome cyl, no seating will ever occur. The shop who tore your
> engines down should have checked this very first. Second would be
> that the rings were installed up-side-down (the part number should be
> up, toward the top of the piston) Most modern rings are a chevron
> design and are ground so that combustion pressure causes the ring to
> expand and seal more tightly in the cyl. If the are not installed
> properly, they will allow combustion gasses to freely pass the rings.
> This too should have been checked as a most likely culprit. Beyond
> that, ????
> Did Morris build up the cyls, or did a cyl shop. If the cyl came as
> an assembly, the rings would have been installed by them and all
> Morris would have done is bolt them on the engine??
> I have worked with Morris an many projects and find him to be, without
> a doubt, the most knowledgeable Commander mechanic alive today. He
> has as much field experience with the geared lycomings as anyone. He
> is however human and like all of us can make mistakes. I don't know
> what happened to you engines, but I would not rest until I found out.
> Someone should be able to determine this for you Randy. I too look
> forward to you having your airplane back in the fleet, I feel so bad
> that all this had to happen to you. Good luck
>
> jb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> To: Commander Chat
> Sent: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 2:03 pm
> Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update
>
> Back in February, I reported to the group my experience in losing the
> left engine in my 680F while experiencing trouble with the right
> engine - at the same time. Here's an update.
>
> After losing oil through the breather, with serious loss of oil
> pressure, the left engine threw a rod (the rod separated at the
> crank). The right engine lost 2-3 gallons through the breather during
> the previous one hour leg, and made so much metal it must be
> re-built. Here's the scenario - both engines lost a huge amount of
> oil through the breathers (the crank cases became pressurized), both
> incidents occurred at the same time, at 5.5. hrs after the annual
> inspection. Both engines had cylinders replaced during the annual
> inspection (2 on the right, 1 on the left).
>
> I cannot believe that these episodes are a coincidence.
>
> My mechanic (ex-mechanic now), Morris Kernick (who has maintained the
> airplane for the past 7 years) did not put the required break-in oil
> in the engines after cylinder replacement (as specifically recommended
> by Lycoming). He says that it is not necessary. Several engine
> experts who have examined the rings in the replaced cylinders indicate
> that they look too "used" to be 5.5. hours old. Morris and the
> cylinder shop deny that they are used. Central Cylinder in Omaha, NE
> is currently re-building the engines (at $50K each). They indicate
> that the cylinder walls are glazed, which is caused by over heating,
> and can be a cause of excessive "blow-by" and crankcase
> pressurization. I have always been very careful about temps, so the
> only time the engines could be overheated is during a ground test
> run. Morris Kernick has not taken any responsibility for the
> situation. I have been very disappointed in his lack of support and
> accountability. He has been virtually silent since the incident. I
> have had to call him each time to discuss the situation. He has not
> called me once. He says that nothing he did caused the failures.
> Whether or not Morris caused the problems, I would have expected him
> to stand behind his work and to at least do his best to trouble shoot
> the problems and help me with a solution. We still do not know
> definitely what caused the failures. Morris did give me an engine
> core, which I would value at around $15-20K. I believe that he is
> hoping that the engine core will be a cheap way out of being
> accountable for the work leaving his shop. At this time, I am still
> analyzing options to recover some of the significant expenses incurred
> because of this incident.
>
> In any case, I wanted to share my story. I have always liked Morris,
> and have appreciated his vast knowledge about Commanders. Morris does
> not have an A&P license, and relies on his employee to sign off all
> work done in his shop. I believe this situation may be a result of
> his conviction for falsifying maintenance records. Because of these
> factors, and my recent experience, I cannot trust him to provide me
> with competent service - service that is so important to the safety
> and lives of the people that I carry in my airplane. I feel obligated
> to share these details with my fellow Commander owners, so that you
> can make your own conclusions.
>
> The engines should be completed in several more weeks, and will be
> shipped to SNS and installed on the airplane by Dave Teeters at
> Airmotive Specialties. I am looking forward to getting N6253X back in
> the air. It's been a long 7 months.
>
> Randy Dettmer, AIA
> 680F/N6253X
>
> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail Signature"
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures Update |
These are dry-sump engines, right? Would overfilling have an effect?
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> The failed rod was on the number 6 cylinder. The replaced cylinder was next
to the failed rod/cylinder. There is still much mystery as to what caused the
rod to fail. We know it was not because of lack of lubrication, even though
the engine was spewing oil out the breather. It apparently failed before all
oil was lost.
>
> RD
>
>
> 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
> http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:47 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update
>
>
> Randy, Jimbob,
>
> One thing I would like to ask, to clarify: I understand that the failed
> rod was NOT on any of the cylinders that Morris replaced, is that
> correct? I heard that the failed rod was on an adjacent cylinder to the
> replaced one.
>
> How would all the causes listed below affect a cylinder that wasn't
> replaced? Can a new cylinder have negative effects on adjacent jugs?
>
> Cheers,
>
> /John
>
> yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>> HI RANDY. I am so sorry to hear of the loss of BOTH engines. I have
>> to agree that it seems unlikely that it was a coincidence, but not
>> impossible. I wanted to comment on a couple of the posts. I think it
>> is unlikely that the event was caused by using a detergent type oil.
>> In my 31 years as an A&P, I have changed many dozen cylinders, and
>> never changed to mineral oil. A wise old mechanic I learned from
>> taught me that if less that 1/2 of the cyl. were changed, it was nor
>> required that the oil be changed. I have no idea what difference that
>> makes, but in all the cyl I changed, I had not even one that did not
>> seat properly. I have even changed many cyl without installing new
>> rings, like if you just needed to do some valve work. He taught that
>> if the cyl and rings were installed completely dry, no oil of any
>> kind, the used rings would re-seat themselves (in the same jug they
>> had originally run) and they always did. I have a couple jugs on my
>> P&W 985 now that were done that way and running strong.
>> I also doubt that heat is the problem. Morris Kernick has scolded me
>> for running my engines to long on the ground, so I find it hard to
>> believe he would do that??
>> Last was tight ring gap. The minimum ring gap is set by the mfg for
>> cold weather ops. The cyl will shrink considerably in cold weather (0
>> F and below) If the ring gap is too small, the rings will touch each
>> other and may brake. Many cyl are manufactured with a "choke" meaning
>> that the bore is smaller at the top of the piston stroke than at the
>> bottom when the engine is cold. As the engine (cyl) warms to
>> operating temp, the cyl bore will become straight. This is why it is
>> very important to properly warm an aircraft engine before applying
>> power. If the cyl temps are not 'in the green", the choke will still
>> be in the cyl bore. As the rings reach the top of the cyl, they will
>> be squeezed in and out. This can also break a ring or scar the cyl
>> walls.
>> I think a more likely possibility is that the wrong rings may have
>> been installed. The damage you describe is consistent with that.
>> There are two major ring types, chrome and iron. Chrome rings are
>> used only in steel cyl, and vice versa. If chrome rings are installed
>> in chrome cyl, no seating will ever occur. The shop who tore your
>> engines down should have checked this very first. Second would be
>> that the rings were installed up-side-down (the part number should be
>> up, toward the top of the piston) Most modern rings are a chevron
>> design and are ground so that combustion pressure causes the ring to
>> expand and seal more tightly in the cyl. If the are not installed
>> properly, they will allow combustion gasses to freely pass the rings.
>> This too should have been checked as a most likely culprit. Beyond
>> that, ????
>> Did Morris build up the cyls, or did a cyl shop. If the cyl came as
>> an assembly, the rings would have been installed by them and all
>> Morris would have done is bolt them on the engine??
>> I have worked with Morris an many projects and find him to be, without
>> a doubt, the most knowledgeable Commander mechanic alive today. He
>> has as much field experience with the geared lycomings as anyone. He
>> is however human and like all of us can make mistakes. I don't know
>> what happened to you engines, but I would not rest until I found out.
>> Someone should be able to determine this for you Randy. I too look
>> forward to you having your airplane back in the fleet, I feel so bad
>> that all this had to happen to you. Good luck
>>
>> jb
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
>> To: Commander Chat
>> Sent: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 2:03 pm
>> Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update
>>
>> Back in February, I reported to the group my experience in losing the
>> left engine in my 680F while experiencing trouble with the right
>> engine - at the same time. Here's an update.
>>
>> After losing oil through the breather, with serious loss of oil
>> pressure, the left engine threw a rod (the rod separated at the
>> crank). The right engine lost 2-3 gallons through the breather during
>> the previous one hour leg, and made so much metal it must be
>> re-built. Here's the scenario - both engines lost a huge amount of
>> oil through the breathers (the crank cases became pressurized), both
>> incidents occurred at the same time, at 5.5. hrs after the annual
>> inspection. Both engines had cylinders replaced during the annual
>> inspection (2 on the right, 1 on the left).
>>
>> I cannot believe that these episodes are a coincidence.
>>
>> My mechanic (ex-mechanic now), Morris Kernick (who has maintained the
>> airplane for the past 7 years) did not put the required break-in oil
>> in the engines after cylinder replacement (as specifically recommended
>> by Lycoming). He says that it is not necessary. Several engine
>> experts who have examined the rings in the replaced cylinders indicate
>> that they look too "used" to be 5.5. hours old. Morris and the
>> cylinder shop deny that they are used. Central Cylinder in Omaha, NE
>> is currently re-building the engines (at $50K each). They indicate
>> that the cylinder walls are glazed, which is caused by over heating,
>> and can be a cause of excessive "blow-by" and crankcase
>> pressurization. I have always been very careful about temps, so the
>> only time the engines could be overheated is during a ground test
>> run. Morris Kernick has not taken any responsibility for the
>> situation. I have been very disappointed in his lack of support and
>> accountability. He has been virtually silent since the incident. I
>> have had to call him each time to discuss the situation. He has not
>> called me once. He says that nothing he did caused the failures.
>> Whether or not Morris caused the problems, I would have expected him
>> to stand behind his work and to at least do his best to trouble shoot
>> the problems and help me with a solution. We still do not know
>> definitely what caused the failures. Morris did give me an engine
>> core, which I would value at around $15-20K. I believe that he is
>> hoping that the engine core will be a cheap way out of being
>> accountable for the work leaving his shop. At this time, I am still
>> analyzing options to recover some of the significant expenses incurred
>> because of this incident.
>>
>> In any case, I wanted to share my story. I have always liked Morris,
>> and have appreciated his vast knowledge about Commanders. Morris does
>> not have an A&P license, and relies on his employee to sign off all
>> work done in his shop. I believe this situation may be a result of
>> his conviction for falsifying maintenance records. Because of these
>> factors, and my recent experience, I cannot trust him to provide me
>> with competent service - service that is so important to the safety
>> and lives of the people that I carry in my airplane. I feel obligated
>> to share these details with my fellow Commander owners, so that you
>> can make your own conclusions.
>>
>> The engines should be completed in several more weeks, and will be
>> shipped to SNS and installed on the airplane by Dave Teeters at
>> Airmotive Specialties. I am looking forward to getting N6253X back in
>> the air. It's been a long 7 months.
>>
>> Randy Dettmer, AIA
>> 680F/N6253X
>>
>> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail Signature"
>>
>> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
>> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures Update |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
No, that should not matter.? If they are overfilled, the oil bladders can be damaged
as the recovery pump (scavenge)?in the engine would return too much oil
to the tank, but the breather should not be effected.? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:07 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update
?
These are dry-sump engines, right? Would overfilling have an effect??
?
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:?
>?
> The failed rod was on the number 6 cylinder. The replaced cylinder was next to
the failed rod/cylinder. There is still much mystery as to what caused the rod
to fail. We know it was not because of lack of lubrication, even though the
engine was spewing oil out the breather. It apparently failed before all oil
was lost.?
>?
> RD?
>?
>?
>?
> 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405?
> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865?
> http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Vormbaum?
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:47 AM?
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com?
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update?
>?
>?
> Randy, Jimbob,?
>?
> One thing I would like to ask, to clarify: I understand that the failed?
> rod was NOT on any of the cylinders that Morris replaced, is that?
> correct? I heard that the failed rod was on an adjacent cylinder to the?
> replaced one.?
>?
> How would all the causes listed below affect a cylinder that wasn't?
> replaced? Can a new cylinder have negative effects on adjacent jugs??
>?
> Cheers,?
>?
> /John?
>?
> yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:?
> >> HI RANDY. I am so sorry to hear of the loss of BOTH engines. I have?
>> to agree that it seems unlikely that it was a coincidence, but not?
>> impossible. I wanted to comment on a couple of the posts. I think it?
>> is unlikely that the event was caused by using a detergent type oil. >> In my
31 years as an A&P, I have changed many dozen cylinders, and?
>> never changed to mineral oil. A wise old mechanic I learned from?
>> taught me that if less that 1/2 of the cyl. were changed, it was nor?
>> required that the oil be changed. I have no idea what difference that?
>> makes, but in all the cyl I changed, I had not even one that did not?
>> seat properly. I have even changed many cyl without installing new?
>> rings, like if you just needed to do some valve work. He taught that?
>> if the cyl and rings were installed completely dry, no oil of any?
>> kind, the used rings would re-seat themselves (in the same jug they?
>> had originally run) and they always did. I have a couple jugs on my?
>> P&W 985 now that were done that way and running strong.?
>> I also doubt that heat is the problem. Morris Kernick has scolded me?
>> for running my engines to long on the ground, so I find it hard to?
>> believe he would do that???
>> Last was tight ring gap. The minimum ring gap is set by the mfg for?
>> cold weather ops. The cyl will shrink considerably in cold weather (0?
>> F and below) If the ring gap is too small, the rings will touch each?
>> other and may brake. Many cyl are manufactured with a "choke" meaning?
>> that the bore is smaller at the top of the piston stroke than at the?
>> bottom when the engine is cold. As the engine (cyl) warms to?
>> operating temp, the cyl bore will become straight. This is why it is?
>> very important to properly warm an aircraft engine before applying?
>> power. If the cyl temps are not 'in the green", the choke will still?
>> be in the cyl bore. As the rings reach the top of the cyl, they will?
>> be squeezed in and out. This can also break a ring or scar the cyl?
>> walls.?
>> I think a more likely possibility is that the wrong rings may have?
>> been installed. The damage you describe is consistent with that. >> There are
two major ring types, chrome and iron. Chrome rings are?
>> used only in steel cyl, and vice versa. If chrome rings are installed?
>> in chrome cyl, no seating will ever occur. The shop who tore your?
>> engines down should have checked this very first. Second would be?
>> that the rings were installed up-side-down (the part number should be?
>> up, toward the top of the piston) Most modern rings are a chevron?
>> design and are ground so that combustion pressure causes the ring to?
>> expand and seal more tightly in the cyl. If the are not installed?
>> properly, they will allow combustion gasses to freely pass the rings. >> This
too should have been checked as a most likely culprit. Beyond?
>> that, ?????
>> Did Morris build up the cyls, or did a cyl shop. If the cyl came as?
>> an assembly, the rings would have been installed by them and all?
>> Morris would have done is bolt them on the engine???
>> I have worked with Morris an many projects and find him to be, without?
>> a doubt, the most knowledgeable Commander mechanic alive today. He?
>> has as much field experience with the geared lycomings as anyone. He?
>> is however human and like all of us can make mistakes. I don't know?
>> what happened to you engines, but I would not rest until I found out. >> Someone
should be able to determine this for you Randy. I too look?
>> forward to you having your airplane back in the fleet, I feel so bad?
>> that all this had to happen to you. Good luck?
>>?
>> jb?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> -----Original Message-----?
>> From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>?
>> To: Commander Chat ?
>> Sent: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 2:03 pm?
>> Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update?
>>?
>> Back in February, I reported to the group my experience in losing the?
>> left engine in my 680F while experiencing trouble with the right?
>> engine - at the same time. Here's an update.?
>>?
>> After losing oil through the breather, with serious loss of oil?
>> pressure, the left engine threw a rod (the rod separated at the?
>> crank). The right engine lost 2-3 gallons through the breather during?
>> the previous one hour leg, and made so much metal it must be?
>> re-built. Here's the scenario - both engines lost a huge amount of?
>> oil through the breathers (the crank cases became pressurized), both?
>> incidents occurred at the same time, at 5.5. hrs after the annual?
>> inspection. Both engines had cylinders replaced during the annual?
>> inspection (2 on the right, 1 on the left).?
>>?
>> I cannot believe that these episodes are a coincidence.?
>>?
>> My mechanic (ex-mechanic now), Morris Kernick (who has maintained the?
>> airplane for the past 7 years) did not put the required break-in oil?
>> in the engines after cylinder replacement (as specifically recommended?
>> by Lycoming). He says that it is not necessary. Several engine?
>> experts who have examined the rings in the replaced cylinders indicate?
>> that they look too "used" to be 5.5. hours old. Morris and the?
>> cylinder shop deny that they are used. Central Cylinder in Omaha, NE?
>> is currently re-building the engines (at $50K each). They indicate?
>> that the cylinder walls are glazed, which is caused by over heating,?
>> and can be a cause of excessive "blow-by" and crankcase?
>> pressurization. I have always been very careful about temps, so the?
>> only time the engines could be overheated is during a ground test?
>> run. Morris Kernick has not taken any responsibility for the?
>> situation. I have been very disappointed in his lack of support and?
>> accountability. He has been virtually silent since the incident. I?
>> have had to call him each time to discuss the situation. He has not?
>> called me once. He says that nothing he did caused the failures. >> Whether
or not Morris caused the problems, I would have expected him?
>> to stand behind his work and to at least do his best to trouble shoot?
>> the problems and help me with a solution. We still do not know?
>> definitely what caused the failures. Morris did give me an engine?
>> core, which I would value at around $15-20K. I believe that he is?
>> hoping that the engine core will be a cheap way out of being?
>> accountable for the work leaving his shop. At this time, I am still?
>> analyzing options to recover some of the significant expenses incurred?
>> because of this incident.?
>>?
>> In any case, I wanted to share my story. I have always liked Morris,?
>> and have appreciated his vast knowledge about Commanders. Morris does?
>> not have an A&P license, and relies on his employee to sign off all?
>> work done in his shop. I believe this situation may be a result of?
>> his conviction for falsifying maintenance records. Because of these?
>> factors, and my recent experience, I cannot trust him to provide me?
>> with competent service - service that is so important to the safety?
>> and lives of the people that I carry in my airplane. I feel obligated?
>> to share these details with my fellow Commander owners, so that you?
>> can make your own conclusions.?
>>?
>> The engines should be completed in several more weeks, and will be?
>> shipped to SNS and installed on the airplane by Dave Teeters at?
>> Airmotive Specialties. I am looking forward to getting N6253X back in?
>> the air. It's been a long 7 months.?
>>?
>> Randy Dettmer, AIA?
>> 680F/N6253X?
>>?
>> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail Signature"?
>>?
>> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*?
>> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*?
>> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***?
>>?
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail?
>> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!?
>> >?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> ?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Sale of 1970 500S |
Sadly I have decided to place for sale my 500S that I have flown for the
last 3 =BD years (900 hr.). Our local airport decided last August to
not
renew the contract with the FBO and I am now without a mechanic/friend
or a hanger to park it in when the snow and ice comes to Mich. I am
planning on placing it with Gary Gadbury in Tenn. To test what the
market is for it. If anyone is interested in dealing with me directly
they can e-mail me at dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net or call me on my cell at 517
881-8959
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Sale of 1970 500S |
Don-
Gary will take good care of you. When the time comes to upgrade from
N414C-
he=92s the first person I=92d call.
Robert S. Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:30 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Sale of 1970 500S
Sadly I have decided to place for sale my 500S that I have flown for the
last 3 =BD years (900 hr.). Our local airport decided last August to
not
renew the contract with the FBO and I am now without a mechanic/friend
or a
hanger to park it in when the snow and ice comes to Mich. I am planning
on
placing it with Gary Gadbury in Tenn. To test what the market is for it.
If
anyone is interested in dealing with me directly they can e-mail me at
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net or call me on my cell at 517 881-8959
Don
__________ NOD32 2621 (20071028) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Sale of 1970 500S |
I bought a 500B from Gary and he subsequently sold it for me (sad day)
he
also sold two Cessna 180=92s for me. All of the transactions went
without a
hitch. I have had nothing but good experiences with Gary.
Kindest regards,
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:30 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Sale of 1970 500S
Sadly I have decided to place for sale my 500S that I have flown for the
last 3 =BD years (900 hr.). Our local airport decided last August to
not
renew the contract with the FBO and I am now without a mechanic/friend
or a
hanger to park it in when the snow and ice comes to Mich. I am planning
on
placing it with Gary Gadbury in Tenn. To test what the market is for it.
If
anyone is interested in dealing with me directly they can e-mail me at
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net or call me on my cell at 517 881-8959
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sale of 1970 500S |
Don,
Don't Give up! Loosing a hangar is not the end of the world.
Putting 300 hours a year tells me you have places to go and people to
see.
You want to fly on the airlines?
If you need a place to keep your 500S, bring it to sunny New Mexico.
I would be happy to keep it for the winter until you find a new
hangar. :)
Tylor Hall
On Oct 27, 2007, at 9:29 PM,
wrote:
> Sadly I have decided to place for sale my 500S that I have flown
> for the last 3 =BD years (900 hr.). Our local airport decided last
> August to not renew the contract with the FBO and I am now without
> a mechanic/friend or a hanger to park it in when the snow and ice
> comes to Mich. I am planning on placing it with Gary Gadbury in
> Tenn. To test what the market is for it. If anyone is interested
> in dealing with me directly they can e-mail me
> atdfalik(at)sbcglobal.net or call me on my cell at 517 881-8959
>
>
> Don
>
Matronics
> ========================
> ========================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Urgent !! Turbochargers |
@#$%!@#$%
I am in the middle of a search for a missing aircraft, (we have had
three crashes in the last 5 days).
A single check valve on the supply line to both turbochargers stuck
closed on start-up which resulted in trashing both brand new, (25
hours), turbos. These things should have pressure switches with
annunciater lights, they will on my machine now!
Anyone have a quick delivery on 2 turbo charges? I need to get back to
the search ASAP.
Please call me on my cell 604-649-9320, I can't afford to buy 2 new ones
but will be ordering them this morning so if you can supply any, please
let me know.
Thanks.
Tom Fisher
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Sale of 1970 500S
Don-
Gary will take good care of you. When the time comes to upgrade from
N414C- he's the first person I'd call.
Robert S. Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:30 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Sale of 1970 500S
Sadly I have decided to place for sale my 500S that I have flown for
the last 3 =BD years (900 hr.). Our local airport decided last August
to not renew the contract with the FBO and I am now without a
mechanic/friend or a hanger to park it in when the snow and ice comes to
Mich. I am planning on placing it with Gary Gadbury in Tenn. To test
what the market is for it. If anyone is interested in dealing with me
directly they can e-mail me at dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net or call me on my
cell at 517 881-8959
Don
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
com
__________ NOD32 2621 (20071028) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Commander training? |
Hi All,
I'm currently processing the changes that occurred on the FAA register
for last week and found something that might, or might not, be of
possible interest.
Model 500B, Serial Number 910 (a former Model 500A), N698R is in the
process of a change of owner.
Although the Register shows the 'Name' as "Registration Pending", the
field "Other Owner Names" shows there to be an Application for
Registration dated 28th September 2007 to "Complex Aircraft Training
LLC".
Their address is:
615 Capistrano Drive
Sparks
Nevada
89441-9205
So, are they offering flight training for Commander owners?
Perhaps if someone is interested, they might consider contacting them.
Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander training? |
Sound like they are giving generic multi training. However, I do provide
Insurance Approved Initial and Recurrent Training , including Power Point Ground
School, in all models of Twin Commanders from the 520 to the 1000. I have
flown them all and have worked on most over the past 36 years.
I go by The Commander Academy.
Talk to you later Berry
Bill Leff
937-369-3334
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures Update |
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. But, things happen, I just had a
crankshaft break in the R-1340 (T-6) on the way to OSH this year. It was running
great and then Poof! no engine! There was no warning. The engine shop said it
was only the second broken crank they had seen since they started business in
1972.
I know that is no consolation. Did it show any signs of oil starvation? That
could be a connection to the cylinder problem. Most of what people have been
telling you is correct.Some of it even seems contradictory but not
necessarily wrong. Phillips XC oil is recommended by many overhaulers for break
in and
it is not mineral oil. I usually don't change the oil for only one or two
cylinders and have never had any problem. However on the IGSO engine I NEVER
run it on the ground after a cylinder change except to leak and function check
before I go fly. This engine is very prone to glazing the cylinders and then
you can't control the oil. Did you have steel or chrome cylinders?
I have may years dealing with IGSO540's. they can be bad about blowing oil.
Did you get an definitive report on the ring type and position on the
cylinders that were changed?
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Failures Update |
Bill-
You earned the respect and admiration of many of us on this list with that
landing. How's your 6 doing? Back in the air yet?
Robert Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. But, things happen, I just had a
crankshaft break in the R-1340 (T-6) on the way to OSH this year. It was
running great and then Poof! no engine! There was no warning. The engine
shop said it was only the second broken crank they had seen since they
started business in 1972.
I know that is no consolation. Did it show any signs of oil starvation? That
could be a connection to the cylinder problem. Most of what people have been
telling you is correct.Some of it even seems contradictory but not
necessarily wrong. Phillips XC oil is recommended by many overhaulers for
break in and it is not mineral oil. I usually don't change the oil for only
one or two cylinders and have never had any problem. However on the IGSO
engine I NEVER run it on the ground after a cylinder change except to leak
and function check before I go fly. This engine is very prone to glazing the
cylinders and then you can't control the oil. Did you have steel or chrome
cylinders?
I have may years dealing with IGSO540's. they can be bad about blowing oil.
Did you get an definitive report on the ring type and position on the
cylinders that were changed?
Bill Leff
_____
See w
__________ NOD32 2624 (20071029) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures Update |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI BILL.? Great to hear from you!? I agree, strange things happen in aviation.?
I flew R-1340s many thousands of hours in Thrush Commanders and never hear of
a crank failure.? Cames, blowers, rods and master rods, but never a crank.? You
did a great job getting the airplane safely landed.? I have though a lot about
Randy's engines troubles and can make no connection between the changing of
an adjacent?cylinder and the failure of a connecting rod.? I think Randy had
posted earlier that they had rulled out oil starvation as a cause.? I also would
like to know how the rod failed (Rod bolt, rod cap, broken rod?etc)? I do
believe that the blow-by could have been caused by incorrect rings or correct
rings incorrectly installed.? Hopefully the guy who tore it down took note if
that.?? jb?
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 3:05 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. But, things happen, I just had a crankshaft
break in the R-1340 (T-6) on the way to OSH this year. It was running great
and then Poof! no engine! There was no warning. The engine shop said it was only
the second broken crank they had seen since they started business in 1972.
?
I know that is no consolation.?Did it show any signs of oil starvation? That could
be a connection to the cylinder problem. Most of what people have been telling
you is correct.Some of it even seems contradictory but not necessarily wrong.
Phillips XC oil is recommended by many overhaulers for break in and it is
not mineral oil. I usually don't change the oil for only one or two cylinders
and have never had any problem. However on the IGSO engine I NEVER run it on
the ground after a cylinder change except to leak and function check before I
go fly. This engine is very prone to glazing the cylinders and then you can't
control the oil.? Did you have steel or chrome cylinders?
?
I have may years dealing with IGSO540's. they can be bad about blowing oil. Did
you get an definitive report on the ring type and position on the cylinders that
were changed?
?
Bill Leff?
See w
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander training |
Hi All,
I trained in my 680E with Bill Leff and just want to say that he's
more than knowledgeable, and that the training was through and very
professional. I don't know of anyone that has his range of experience
and knowledge of Commanders, nor such an absolute command of the
aircraft. I'll be going back to Bill on a regular basis for recurrent
training.
I was up in fond du Lac recently and saw where he landed on the
highway when he lost the engine on his T-6. It's really hard to
believe how low those wires were that he flew under and that he was
able to put the plane down safely on that crowded highway. Proof of
the kind of pilot he is was in that landing.......If you haven't seen
the 'cop-cam' video of the landing you click here to see it. The
video doesn't show the wires he flew under (unbelievably low) nor the
bounce over the cop car that took the movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-NFM2wgmw
Cate
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures Update |
Thanks, my T-6 is back flying with a loaner wing. My wing is being repaired
( I hit a 4x4 wooden sign post) and should be ready in December. I had my
spare R1340 (800 hours TT since new) overhauled and put it on the plane. The
engine on the plane is trash, the crank shaft broke!
I am back flying air shows and have done two last month and will be leaving
for another next week.
Thanks for asking.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Failures Update |
Bill-
Great to hear! We are fellow T-6/Commander owners- although mine is an
SNJ-6.
Two great airplanes.
Robert
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update
Thanks, my T-6 is back flying with a loaner wing. My wing is being repaired
( I hit a 4x4 wooden sign post) and should be ready in December. I had my
spare R1340 (800 hours TT since new) overhauled and put it on the plane. The
engine on the plane is trash, the crank shaft broke!
I am back flying air shows and have done two last month and will be leaving
for another next week.
Thanks for asking.
Bill Leff
_____
See what's
__________ NOD32 2627 (20071030) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Commander training |
Was that cop going for his gun or did he pull his cuffs? The video ends as
he holds something in his hand that looks suspiciously like cuffs. Bill,
were you cuffed for that?
As a side-note. Why did they make that other guy pull over?
It would be interesting to hear.
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catherine
Chagnot
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander training
Hi All,
I trained in my 680E with Bill Leff and just want to say that he's
more than knowledgeable, and that the training was through and very
professional. I don't know of anyone that has his range of experience
and knowledge of Commanders, nor such an absolute command of the
aircraft. I'll be going back to Bill on a regular basis for recurrent
training.
I was up in fond du Lac recently and saw where he landed on the
highway when he lost the engine on his T-6. It's really hard to
believe how low those wires were that he flew under and that he was
able to put the plane down safely on that crowded highway. Proof of
the kind of pilot he is was in that landing.......If you haven't seen
the 'cop-cam' video of the landing you click here to see it. The
video doesn't show the wires he flew under (unbelievably low) nor the
bounce over the cop car that took the movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-NFM2wgmw
Cate
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander training |
In a message dated 31-Oct-07 01:27:07 Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
As a side-note. Why did they make that other guy pull over?
It would be interesting to hear.
They pulled that other guy over for driving on the runway.
~KG~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Commander training |
he was a witness.
From: CloudCraft(at)aol.comDate: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:28:29 -0400Subject: Re: C
ommander-List: Commander trainingTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
In a message dated 31-Oct-07 01:27:07 Pacific Daylight Time, nico@cybersupe
rstore.com writes:
As a side-note. Why did they make that other guy pull over? It would be int
eresting to hear.
They pulled that other guy over for driving on the runway.
~KG~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander training |
In the unedited cop video the white car cut passed and cut off the police
cars. They were not happy. They did let them go because they were foreign
visitors going to OSH. They stopped to take a picture!
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander training |
The officer was turning down the volume on the radio that was on his belt.
As he cane up to me he said "Man I about peed in my pants!" All of the police
were very friendly and professional. The local Patrol Post was selling the
video for $5.
The city sent me a bill for $36 for oil dry the fireman put under the plane.
The State charged $1600 for the sign I hit.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures Update |
I agree.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I
hang the re-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there
on recommended systems and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe
that you had a system installed on your 500B. What system was it
and how much did it cost..?? I am also interested in any advice
from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended
procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You
can believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating
those engines with TLC. Thanks.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F / N6253X
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
<http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different aircra
ft. mason
From: rcdettmer(at)charter.netTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Command
er-List: Engine AnalyzerDate: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700
I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I hang the re
-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there on recommended syste
ms and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe that you had a system installed
on your 500B. What system was it and how much did it cost..?? I am also
interested in any advice from you experienced geared Commander guys about r
ecommended procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You c
an believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those engin
es with TLC. Thanks.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F / N6253X
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
Hi Randy,
I had the JPI EDM-760 Twin engine analyzer put in my airplane last year.
It cost ~$5k IIRC, and it's worth every penny. You could do it for less,
but I added on the optional fuel totalizer, and I love it. The JPI is a
very capable unit (moreso than the EI units I compared them to) and I
really like the software that comes with it, allowing you to download
all your flight history & engine behavior.
I HIGHLY recommend it. If nothing else, it'll pay for itself in fuel in
a few years.
/John
MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:
> rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different
> aircraft. mason
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700
>
> I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I
> hang the re-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there
> on recommended systems and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe
> that you had a system installed on your 500B. What system was it
> and how much did it cost..?? I am also interested in any advice
> from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended
> procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You can
> believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those
> engines with TLC. Thanks.
>
>
>
> Randy Dettmer, AIA
>
> 680F / N6253X
>
>
>
>
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Was that $5K installed or uninstalled..?? Thanks.
RD
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Hi Randy,
I had the JPI EDM-760 Twin engine analyzer put in my airplane last year.
It cost ~$5k IIRC, and it's worth every penny. You could do it for less,
but I added on the optional fuel totalizer, and I love it. The JPI is a
very capable unit (moreso than the EI units I compared them to) and I
really like the software that comes with it, allowing you to download
all your flight history & engine behavior.
I HIGHLY recommend it. If nothing else, it'll pay for itself in fuel in
a few years.
/John
MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:
> rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different
> aircraft. mason
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700
>
> I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I
> hang the re-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there
> on recommended systems and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe
> that you had a system installed on your 500B. What system was it
> and how much did it cost..?? I am also interested in any advice
> from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended
> procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You can
> believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those
> engines with TLC. Thanks.
>
>
> Randy Dettmer, AIA
>
> 680F / N6253X
>
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
rd, one unit per side has worked out well. mason to see commander aero inst
all google 2001M
> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:26:12 -0700> From: john(at)vormbaum.com> To: comma
nder-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer> > --
Randy,> > I had the JPI EDM-760 Twin engine analyzer put in my airplane la
st year. > It cost ~$5k IIRC, and it's worth every penny. You could do it f
or less, > but I added on the optional fuel totalizer, and I love it. The J
PI is a > very capable unit (moreso than the EI units I compared them to) a
nd I > really like the software that comes with it, allowing you to downloa
d > all your flight history & engine behavior.> > I HIGHLY recommend it. If
nothing else, it'll pay for itself in fuel in > a few years.> > /John> > >
MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:> > rd, i have found the JPI units to be very help
ful on three different > > aircraft. mason> >> >> >> > --------------------
----------------------------------------------------> > From: rcdettmer@cha
rter.net> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com> > Subject: Commander-List: En
gine Analyzer> > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700> >> > I am looking a
t installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I> > hang the re-built engi
nes in several weeks. Any advice out there> > on recommended systems and pr
ices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe> > that you had a system installed on you
r 500B. What system was it> > and how much did it cost..?? I am also intere
sted in any advice> > from you experienced geared Commander guys about reco
mmended> > procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You ca
n> > believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those> >
engines with TLC. Thanks.> >> > > >> > Randy Dettmer, AIA> >> > 680F / N625
3X> >> > > >> > > >> > *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*> >> > *
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*> >> > *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
***> >> > > >> >> >> > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information _______
================> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
Installed, had it done during my last annual.
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Was that $5K installed or uninstalled..?? Thanks.
>
> RD
>
>
> 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
> http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:26 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Hi Randy,
>
> I had the JPI EDM-760 Twin engine analyzer put in my airplane last year.
> It cost ~$5k IIRC, and it's worth every penny. You could do it for less,
> but I added on the optional fuel totalizer, and I love it. The JPI is a
> very capable unit (moreso than the EI units I compared them to) and I
> really like the software that comes with it, allowing you to download
> all your flight history & engine behavior.
>
> I HIGHLY recommend it. If nothing else, it'll pay for itself in fuel in
> a few years.
>
> /John
>
>
> MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:
>
>> rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different
>> aircraft. mason
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
> --
>
>> From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700
>>
>> I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I
>> hang the re-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there
>> on recommended systems and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe
>> that you had a system installed on your 500B. What system was it
>> and how much did it cost..?? I am also interested in any advice
>> from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended
>> procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You can
>> believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those
>> engines with TLC. Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy Dettmer, AIA
>>
>> 680F / N6253X
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>>
>> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>>
>> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
I am getting quoted over $8K by my shop in Salinas - $4345 for the unit from
JPI (including a $300 JPI rebate) and about $4K to install. I am looking at
12 pair of wires from each engine (or more) routed to the panel. Is that
the same for your installation..??
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Installed, had it done during my last annual.
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Was that $5K installed or uninstalled..?? Thanks.
>
> RD
>
>
> 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
> http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:26 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Hi Randy,
>
> I had the JPI EDM-760 Twin engine analyzer put in my airplane last year.
> It cost ~$5k IIRC, and it's worth every penny. You could do it for less,
> but I added on the optional fuel totalizer, and I love it. The JPI is a
> very capable unit (moreso than the EI units I compared them to) and I
> really like the software that comes with it, allowing you to download
> all your flight history & engine behavior.
>
> I HIGHLY recommend it. If nothing else, it'll pay for itself in fuel in
> a few years.
>
> /John
>
>
> MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:
>
>> rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different
>> aircraft. mason
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>>
> --
>
>> From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700
>>
>> I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I
>> hang the re-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there
>> on recommended systems and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe
>> that you had a system installed on your 500B. What system was it
>> and how much did it cost..?? I am also interested in any advice
>> from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended
>> procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You can
>> believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those
>> engines with TLC. Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy Dettmer, AIA
>>
>> 680F / N6253X
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>>
>> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>>
>> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
Do not run on ground except to check operation and leaks. In the air lots of
airspeed, lots of power and lots of fuel. This will seat the rings in without
glazing the cylinder walls. Make fine adjustments after break-in flight.
Again don't let it get hot on the ground while making the adjustments. The
Overhauled fuel injectors will be 10% rich because they are set up for 680FL's
with Big air Scoops. Lean it on ground for proper operation, get it in the air
and adjust it later.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | November is Matronics Email List Fund Raiser Month! |
Dear Listers,
You've probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows or spam
from any of the List and Forum services at Matronics. These include, for example:
The Email List Postings - http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
The Email List Forum Site - http://forums.matronics.com
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The List Search Engine - http://www.matronics.com/search
This is because I have always enjoyed a List experience that was completely about
the sport we enjoy - airplanes - and not about advertising!
But running a high performance, highly available service like this isn't free and
a fair amount of money in terms of computer upgrades, business-class Internet
connectivity, and electricity. Consequently, many similar sites turn to advertising
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every time you read an email message or browse the their web site.
Rather than subject my List community to another constant commercial bombardment,
I have chosen to hold a PBS-like fund raiser each year in November to support
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During the month, I will be sending out a Fund Raiser reminder message every few
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To minimize the impact of the Fund Raiser on the List community, I implemented
a new feature late last year specifically related to making Contributions. If
you are an Email List subscriber, once you make a Contribution using the online
web site, you will no longer receive the email from me regarding the Fund Raiser!
There are a couple of exceptions to this, however. If someone replies
to a Contribution message I've sent, you might receive that. Additionally, the
messages will always be posted to the Forums site. To a first order, however,
once you make a Contribution, you won't get my email messages about the Fund
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will take effect once the check is received.
There is a whole new line up of really great Contribution gifts this year! When
you make a qualifying Contribution, you can select one of the many free gifts
that are available during the Fund Raiser. These gifts are provided through
the generous support of a number of our industry's leading supporters including:
Bob Nuckolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Andy Gold - Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
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Please visit these guy's respective sites, as they have some great products to
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You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
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I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous support! Your Contributions
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Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Guys-
We installed a Gemini in N414C, and I've found it to be a superb instrument.
We obtained it at a heavy discount through a personal contact- and after a
brief seven hours of flight time in the airplane- I can't imagine not having
had one installed before. The one down side to the instrument is that they
married themselves to a data extraction tool that effectively became
outmoded a while back- but they haven't taken it out of their literature
yet- so all the data logging I was hoping for has not materialized.
In this respect I wish we'd gotten the JPI- as the data logging functions on
that device still work.
As for the operation and functionality of the instrument- I think very
highly of it!
We're currently discussing having one installed on the SNJ. It may be smart
to wait for the next engine overhaul, however.
Robert S. Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON
CHEVAILLIER
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
rd, one unit per side has worked out well. mason to see commander aero
install google 2001M
_____
> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:26:12 -0700
> From: john(at)vormbaum.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Hi Randy,
>
> I had the JPI EDM-760 Twin engine analyzer put in my airplane last year.
> It cost ~$5k IIRC, and it's worth every penny. You could do it for less,
> but I added on the optional fuel totalizer, and I love it. The JPI is a
> very capable unit (moreso than the EI units I compared them to) and I
> really like the software that comes with it, allowing you to download
> all your flight history & engine behavior.
>
> I HIGHLY recommend it. If nothing else, it'll pay for itself in fuel in
> a few years.
>
> /John
>
>
> MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:
> > rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different
> > aircraft. mason
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
> > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700
> >
> > I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I
> > hang the re-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there
> > on recommended systems and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe
> > that you had a system installed on your 500B. What system was it
> > and how much did it cost..?? I am also interested in any advice
> > from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended
> > procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You can
> > believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those
> > engines with TLC. Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Randy Dettmer, AIA
> >
> > 680F / N6253X
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
> >
> > *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
> >
> > *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
>
>
>
__________ NOD32 2630 (20071031) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
| From: | "Rod Douglas" <rod(at)themoney.com.au> |
G'day,
I'm looking for some guidance from the wise council that seems to wander
these halls. I'm an Aussie who is looking at buying a 685.
There is only one 685 on the Australian register and I have to say that
the LAME's down here are scathing about a whole range of things in
regard to the aircraft. I have about 50 hours in the more common twin
commanders and really liked the experience. My flying has changed and I
decided that I wanted to upgrade to a pressurised twin. I thought I'd
end up in a C340 or 414. Then I came across the 685. It looks good on
paper. The price is good. I can afford ( I think) to maintain it
properly. Then I started talking to the LAME's and the brokers. Here's
what they told me:
1. It's the heaviest commander and does carry enough load to be
used in charter.
2. The geared engines never go to TBO, are near impossible to
manage effectively in the 685 and will cost you a fortune if you can
find the parts to overhaul.
3. Parts for the airframe are difficult if not impossible to get.
4. The spar inspection is incredibly costly, must be done every 3
years and if corrosion is found will cost $100k + to fix.
5. The list of AD's is ludicrously long and getting longer.
Now there is a fair chance that my friendly experts may - 1. Never have
seen a 685. 2. Almost certainly never have worked on one. 3. Don't like
pressurised or turbo charged aircraft because in Australia we don't have
mountains or weather to justify it. I on the other hand have spent the
past several years flying a Mooney TLS around and really valueing the
capacity to get above what little weather we have and certainly out of
the summer chop that gets generated by our wide hot land.
So I'm hoping that someone who has owned and flown 685 can set me
straight and give me some encouragement to believe that it would be my
ideal aircraft. With 5 young kids I could see myself exploring the
world for the next 10 years in a long legged comfortable pressurised
twin.
Warmly,
Rod Douglas
PS... I don't know if he was part of this community but the Aero
Commanders greatest advocate in Australia was a guy named Steve Knott.
Steve had a fleet of 26 commanders of various persuasions'. He
introduced me to the Aero Commander and most of my time flying them was
in his aircraft. Steve was unfortunately killed with one of his pilots
when the Commander they were flying flew into terrain in bad weather a
couple of months ago. Steve was a difficult character but a great guy
who believed in the Aero Commander and aviation in Australia. Vale Steve
Knott.
Rod Douglas MBA FAICD
CEO
Successystems Pty Ltd
'Plethora'
32b Jardine Road
Beechmont Qld 4211
(P) 07 55 333 222
(F) 07 55 333 012
(M) 0409 55 3335
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
| From: | "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com> |
Rod,
I guarantee your experts have never flown or owned a 685 Commander.
It is all hogwash.
It is a wonderful plane. I owned and flew one for quite a while and loved it. The
engines will make or exceed TBO if you are nice to them. They may require a
a few cylinders around 900 to 1000 hrs. but the bottom end of the engine is rock
solid.
It does require a bit of runway for take off but it is a 9,000# gross weight airplane.
It will perform to the book numbers if you fly it by the book.
It is not dangerous and it is a sheer joy to fly.
It does like to drink fuel but in return you get pressurised comfort in the flight
levels at 200+Knots.
I owned N414C which is now currently owned by another list member.
If its the plane you want get it you will not regret it. The only Twin Commander
experts are right here on this list.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143185#143185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN GUILTY OF LOOKING AT OTHERS YOUR OWN AGE AND
THINKING, 'SURELY I CAN'T LOOK THAT OLD. WELL. YOU'LL LOVE THIS ONE.
MY NAME IS ALICE SMITH AND I WAS SITTING IN THE WAITING ROOM FOR MY
FIRST APPOINTMENT WITH A NEW DENTIST. I NOTICED HIS DDS DIPLOMA, WHICH
BORE HIS FULL NAME.
SUDDENLY, I REMEMBERED A TALL, HANDSOME, DARK-HAIRED BOY WITH THE
SAME NAME HAD BEEN IN MY HIGH SCHOOL CLASS ALMOST 50 YEARS AGO.
COULD HE BE THE SAME GUY THAT I HAD A SECRET CRUSH ON, WAY BACK
THEN? UPON SEEING HIM, HOWEVER, I QUICKLY DISCARDED ANY SUCH THOUGHT
THIS BALDING, GRAY-HAIRED MAN WITH THE DEEPLY LINED FACE WAS WAY TOO
OLD TO HAVE BEEN MY CLASSMATE.
JUST TO PROVE MYSELF WRONG, AFTER HE EXAMINED MY TEETH, I ASKED HIM IF HE
HAD ATTENDED ABRAHAM LINCOLN HIGH SCHOOL IN COUNCIL BLUFFS, IOWA.
"YES. YES, I DID ...I'M A LYNX," HE GLEAMED WITH PRIDE.
"WHEN DID YOU GRADUATE?" I ASKED. HE ANSWERED, "IN 1960. WHY DO YOU ASK?"
"YOU WERE IN MY CLASS!", I EXCLAIMED.
HE LOOKED AT ME CLOSELY. THEN, THAT UGLY, OLD, BALD, WRINKLED, FAT
ASSED, GRAY-HAIRED, DECREPIT SON-OF-A-B****ASKED, "WHAT DID YOU TEACH?"
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
| From: | "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com> |
WTF?????????????????????????????????????????????
dowens(at)aerialviewpoint wrote:
> HAVE YOU EVER BEEN GUILTY OF LOOKING AT OTHERS YOUR OWN AGE AND
> THINKING, 'SURELY I CAN'T LOOK THAT OLD. WELL. YOU'LL LOVE THIS ONE.
>
> MY NAME IS ALICE SMITH AND I WAS SITTING IN THE WAITING ROOM FOR MY
> FIRST APPOINTMENT WITH A NEW DENTIST. I NOTICED HIS DDS DIPLOMA, WHICH
> BORE HIS FULL NAME.
>
> SUDDENLY, I REMEMBERED A TALL, HANDSOME, DARK-HAIRED BOY WITH THE
> SAME NAME HAD BEEN IN MY HIGH SCHOOL CLASS ALMOST 50 YEARS AGO.
> COULD HE BE THE SAME GUY THAT I HAD A SECRET CRUSH ON, WAY BACK
> THEN? UPON SEEING HIM, HOWEVER, I QUICKLY DISCARDED ANY SUCH THOUGHT
>
> THIS BALDING, GRAY-HAIRED MAN WITH THE DEEPLY LINED FACE WAS WAY TOO
> OLD TO HAVE BEEN MY CLASSMATE.
>
> JUST TO PROVE MYSELF WRONG, AFTER HE EXAMINED MY TEETH, I ASKED HIM IF HE
> HAD ATTENDED ABRAHAM LINCOLN HIGH SCHOOL IN COUNCIL BLUFFS, IOWA.
>
> "YES. YES, I DID ...I'M A LYNX," HE GLEAMED WITH PRIDE.
>
> "WHEN DID YOU GRADUATE?" I ASKED. HE ANSWERED, "IN 1960. WHY DO YOU ASK?"
>
> "YOU WERE IN MY CLASS!", I EXCLAIMED.
>
> HE LOOKED AT ME CLOSELY. THEN, THAT UGLY, OLD, BALD, WRINKLED, FAT
> ASSED, GRAY-HAIRED, DECREPIT SON-OF-A-B****ASKED, "WHAT DID YOU TEACH?"
>
>
>
>
> David Owens
> Aerial Viewpoint
> N14AV
> AC-500A-Colemill
:? :? :?
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143476#143476
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
We've got the Insight GEM 1200. The gizmo itself works well enough, but
for years Insight has not released theri proprietary data encryption and
its pissed a lot of people off who have these things.
One of the neat things these things will do is store all your engine
parameters for retrival later where you can dump it into spreadsheets
and other applications. Insight was locking you into some ancient HP
calculator with an infra-red port. Maybe things have changed. We haven't
looked for over a year now. But it might be worthwhile to ask about data
retrieval before purchasing. It would be fascinating to 'read' all the
parameters that lead up to your failure. (Particularly if I'm not having
to pay for those engines!)
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:40 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I hang
the re-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there on
recommended systems and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe that you
had a system installed on your 500B. What system was it and how much
did it cost..?? I am also interested in any advice from you experienced
geared Commander guys about recommended procedures for breaking in and
operating the new engines. You can believe that I will want to be VERY
conservative in treating those engines with TLC. Thanks.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F / N6253X
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his Twin
Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about
it.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. I've
got a bunch of really nice incentive gifts this year. There's really something
for everyone!
Please make a Contribution today:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit
at this time. So far I have heard many positive things about
JPI. Still doing research.
Randy
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
<http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for
his Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they
were all too expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the
resources, the AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB
transfer and apparently is (software) upgradeable via USB too.
Don't know anything else about it.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
Randy,
I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:
1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel
2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great
3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that
feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.
I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all
the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,
Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing
valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.
Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a
big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him,
especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental
occasionally still spew:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the
JPI software graphs)
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the
LOP vs. ROP argument)
Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html
Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a
JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate
is about right.
Cheers,
/John
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit at
> this time. So far I have heard many positive things about JPI. Still
> doing research.
>
>
>
> Randy
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dettmer Architecture*
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of
> *andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
>
> Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his
> Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
> expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
> AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
> is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.
>
>
>
> God bless,
>
> Andrew
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> * -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --*
> * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*
> **
> * November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*
> * the Contribution link below to find out more about*
> * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*
> **
> * List Contribution Web Site:*
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * Thank you for your generous support!*
> **
> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
> **
> **
> * - The Commander-List Email Forum -*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
> **
> * --> http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> * *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
> I am leaning towards a JPI unit at this time
Hi Randy... just as well - apparently I was talking through my hat. My
brother tells me that, while the download features are good on the
AuRacle, it is only available for a limited number of aircraft.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
| From: | "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com> |
JPI JPI JPI JPI
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143864#143864
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seriously searching for 500 |
| From: | "BradG27Z" <BradG27Z(at)comcast.net> |
Hi folks, I have been searching high and low for a year and a half for the right
500B or 500S. I am looking for a solid airframe, less than 5,000 TT, NDH, no
corrosion or undocumented repairs. Prefer an A/C that has stayed in the US and
well cared for. Time on engines and props not important. Avionics not important.
Paint and interior not important. All logs and hopefully hangared. I am a
very motivated buyer. Any ideas? Anybody have any leads? I have already looked
at three A/C that have been big disappointments. Please help a hungry Commander
buyer (I am a private individual). Thanks,
Brad
360-658-9700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143916#143916
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seriously searching for 500 |
Brad,
All your criteria should be easy to meet, except perhaps the "less than
5,000 TT." I have an airplane that has over 18,000 TT on it, and it
flies as well as any of the 3,000 TT Commanders that I've flown. On
these airframes, TT doesn't matter one iota. Lose that requirement and I
can think of 2 airplanes right off the bat that would fit your needs....
Cheers,
/John
BradG27Z wrote:
>
> Hi folks, I have been searching high and low for a year and a half for the right
500B or 500S. I am looking for a solid airframe, less than 5,000 TT, NDH,
no corrosion or undocumented repairs. Prefer an A/C that has stayed in the US
and well cared for. Time on engines and props not important. Avionics not important.
Paint and interior not important. All logs and hopefully hangared. I am
a very motivated buyer. Any ideas? Anybody have any leads? I have already looked
at three A/C that have been big disappointments. Please help a hungry Commander
buyer (I am a private individual). Thanks,
> Brad
> 360-658-9700
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143916#143916
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seriously searching for 500 |
Hard to find a 500B with that few hours - we have one with almost 10,000 TT,
but in fantastic shape, two solid IO540s - that we'd let go for 200K. STEC
autopilot, 430WAAS GPS, JPI engine analyzers.... I can send you pictures if
you'd like as well as full statistics. I've owned it since 1985. Hangared in
Texas her whole life. Just got her back from an IRAN rt engine.
bobf
On 11/4/07, BradG27Z wrote:
>
>
> Hi folks, I have been searching high and low for a year and a half for the
> right 500B or 500S. I am looking for a solid airframe, less than 5,000 TT,
> NDH, no corrosion or undocumented repairs. Prefer an A/C that has stayed in
> the US and well cared for. Time on engines and props not important. Avionics
> not important. Paint and interior not important. All logs and hopefully
> hangared. I am a very motivated buyer. Any ideas? Anybody have any leads? I
> have already looked at three A/C that have been big disappointments. Please
> help a hungry Commander buyer (I am a private individual). Thanks,
> Brad
> 360-658-9700
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143916#143916
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Randy,
Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider
replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:
1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel
2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great
3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that
feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.
I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all
the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,
Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing
valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.
Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a
big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him,
especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental
occasionally still spew:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the
JPI software graphs)
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the
LOP vs. ROP argument)
Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html
Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a
JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate
is about right.
Cheers,
/John
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit at
> this time. So far I have heard many positive things about JPI. Still
> doing research.
>
>
>
> Randy
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dettmer Architecture*
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of
> *andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
>
> Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his
> Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
> expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
> AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
> is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.
>
>
>
> God bless,
>
> Andrew
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> * -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --*
> * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*
> **
> * November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*
> * the Contribution link below to find out more about*
> * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*
> **
> * List Contribution Web Site:*
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * Thank you for your generous support!*
> **
> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
> **
> **
> * - The Commander-List Email Forum -*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
> **
> * --> http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> * *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Hi Nico,
No, I didn't. Interesting idea, though. How many hundreds of thousands of
dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..?? I have heard them mentioned many times
on this list, and assume that the performance upgrade is significant.
RD
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:56 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider
replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:
1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel
2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great
3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that
feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.
I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all
the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,
Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing
valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.
Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a
big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him,
especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental
occasionally still spew:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the
JPI software graphs)
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the
LOP vs. ROP argument)
Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html
Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a
JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate
is about right.
Cheers,
/John
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit at
> this time. So far I have heard many positive things about JPI. Still
> doing research.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
> *Dettmer Architecture*
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of
> *andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his
> Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
> expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
> AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
> is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.
>
>
> God bless,
>
> Andrew
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> * -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --*
> * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*
> **
> * November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*
> * the Contribution link below to find out more about*
> * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*
> **
> * List Contribution Web Site:*
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * Thank you for your generous support!*
> **
> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
> **
> **
> * - The Commander-List Email Forum -*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
> **
> * --> http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> * *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Hi Randy,
You can visit the commander website (www.aerocommander.com) and follow the
link STC Holders, which will lead you to Dick MacCoon's website with his
Commander STC's.
I am sure he will be able to provide you with more knowledgeable information
than I can. It might be worth a visit.
There is a video of the Orenda-engined Commander flying, too. Last time I
checked, it was for sale.
It would be interesting to hear your perceptions on the 800hp conversion.
Thanks
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Hi Nico,
No, I didn't. Interesting idea, though. How many hundreds of thousands of
dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..?? I have heard them mentioned many times
on this list, and assume that the performance upgrade is significant.
RD
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:56 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider
replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:
1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel
2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great
3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that
feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.
I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all
the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,
Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing
valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.
Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a
big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him,
especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental
occasionally still spew:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the
JPI software graphs)
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the
LOP vs. ROP argument)
Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html
Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a
JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate
is about right.
Cheers,
/John
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit at
> this time. So far I have heard many positive things about JPI. Still
> doing research.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
> *Dettmer Architecture*
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of
> *andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his
> Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
> expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
> AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
> is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.
>
>
> God bless,
>
> Andrew
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> * -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --*
> * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*
> **
> * November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*
> * the Contribution link below to find out more about*
> * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*
> **
> * List Contribution Web Site:*
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * Thank you for your generous support!*
> **
> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
> **
> **
> * - The Commander-List Email Forum -*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
> **
> * --> http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> * *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
rd, two (2). pls call if you wish to visit about it. mason 817-517-4977
> From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: R
E: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 07:06:00 -0800> >
ter.net>> > Hi Nico,> No, I didn't. Interesting idea, though. How many hund
reds of thousands of> dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..?? I have heard the
m mentioned many times> on this list, and assume that the performance upgra
de is significant.> > RD> > > > Dettmer Architecture> 663 Hill Street, San
Luis Obispo, CA 93405> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865> http://www.dettmera
rchitecture.com/> > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-commander-list-
server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
Behalf Of nico css> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:56 AM> To: commander-
list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer> > --> Com
mander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > Ran
dy,> Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider>
replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?> Nico> > > -----Or
iginal Message-----> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mail
to:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John> Vormbaum>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer> > --> Commander-List message
posted by: John Vormbaum > > Randy,> > I still feel stro
ngly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:> > 1) It's a TWIN mo
del, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel> 2) The built-in fuel t
otalizer is great> 3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly
(I love that> feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.> > I just bring my lapt
op in the airplane every now & then and download all> the data. The softwar
e provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,> Fuel flow, and break the
m down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing> valve etc. very easy to d
etect....before it fails.> > Here are a couple of articles on engine manage
ment where the JPI plays a> big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to
agree with him,> especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Con
tinental> occasionally still spew:> > http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182
176-1.html (Good graphics of the> JPI software graphs)> http://www.avweb.co
m/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the> LOP vs. ROP argument
)> > Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:> http
://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html> > Incidentally, I got quite a
break on the price. I have been told that a> JPI install is roughly 40 hrs.
At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate> is about right.> > Cheers,> > /J
ohn> > > > Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:> >> > Thanks Andrew for the response.
I am leaning towards a JPI unit at> > this time. So far I have heard many p
ositive things about JPI. Still> > doing research.> >> >> >> > Randy> >> >>
>> >> >> > *Dettmer Architecture*> >> > *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo,
CA 93405*> >> > *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*> >> > *http://www.dettme
rarchitecture.com/***> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----> > *From:* own
er-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com> > [mailto:owner-commander-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of> > *andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> > *Sent:* Satu
rday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM> > *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com> > *
Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer> >> >> >> > Randy, my brother
was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his> > Twin Comanche; didn't
end up buying one in the end - they were all too> > expensive in South Afr
ica. He said that, given the resources, the> > AuRacle would likely be his
choice. It has USB transfer and apparently> > is (software) upgradeable via
USB too. Don't know anything else about it.> >> >> >> > God bless,> >> > A
ndrew> >> > * *> > * *> > **> > **> > * -- Please Support Your Lists This M
onth --*> > * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*> > **> > * November is th
e Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*> > * the Contribution link below to fi
nd out more about*> > * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*> > **>
> * List Contribution Web Site:*> > **> > * --> http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution*> > **> > * Thank you for your generous support!*> > **> > * -Ma
tt Dralle, List Admin.*> > **> > **> > * - The Commander-List Email Forum -
*> > **> > **> > **> > **> > * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Comma
nder-List*> > **> > * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*> > **> > * --> http://forum
s.matronics.com*> > **> > * *> >> >> > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Inf
========================> _
================> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
You would hope it would be, but it's.....not. For some reason they never
really got the engine/prop combo right, and the airplanes just don't
seem to perform like you would expect for the amount of horsepower they
gain. Although I haven't flown one personally; I'm getting this info
secondhand from guys who have owned and/or flown them.
I have however looked in the cowlings, and I will say that when you
stuff an IO-720 in there, it leaves NO room for anything like a wrench
or a screwdriver!
/J
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Hi Nico,
> No, I didn't. Interesting idea, though. How many hundreds of thousands of
> dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..?? I have heard them mentioned many times
> on this list, and assume that the performance upgrade is significant.
>
> RD
>
>
> Dettmer Architecture
> 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
> http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:56 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Randy,
> Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider
> replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?
> Nico
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Randy,
>
> I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:
>
> 1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel
> 2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great
> 3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that
> feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.
>
> I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all
> the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,
> Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing
> valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.
>
> Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a
> big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him,
> especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental
> occasionally still spew:
>
> http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the
> JPI software graphs)
> http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the
> LOP vs. ROP argument)
>
> Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:
> http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html
>
> Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a
> JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate
> is about right.
>
> Cheers,
>
> /John
>
>
> Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
>> Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit at
>> this time. So far I have heard many positive things about JPI. Still
>> doing research.
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dettmer Architecture*
>>
>> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>>
>> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>>
>> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of
>> *andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his
>> Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
>> expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
>> AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
>> is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.
>>
>>
>>
>> God bless,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> * -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --*
>> * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*
>> **
>> * November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*
>> * the Contribution link below to find out more about*
>> * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*
>> **
>> * List Contribution Web Site:*
>> **
>> * --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> **
>> * Thank you for your generous support!*
>> **
>> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
>> **
>> **
>> * - The Commander-List Email Forum -*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
Rod, in answer to your questions about the 685. I have been flying and
training in 685's for many years. I also was part owner in a service shop that
specialized in 685's. Sometimes we would have as many as 6 on my ramp or in the
hangar at a time.
1. It is a heavy airplane but it has an adequate useful load. You can carry
fuel or people but not both at the same time. It carries 320 gal of fuel so
with two people you can go a long way! It is the quietest cabin you will
ever fly in a prop driven airplane.
2. The geared engines are sensitive but with good overhauls and proper
flying techniques they should last. The most common problems are cylinders and
cracked cases. All the parts are available for the engine but there are only a
few shops that still support the fuel injection system but it is supported.
3. The airframe is very dependable and most parts are available. The most
important parts, landing gear etc. are common to all flat nacelle Commanders.
The airframe is 690 Turbo Commander and the rest is generic.
4. The spar inspection is $10-12K every 36 months but if corrosion is found
there are shorter inspection intervals for the effected area. You are right,
it cost about $100k to replace the spar cap but that is unusual. If the spar
is good now it probably will continue to be good.
The list of AD's on Commanders is actually very short. Check the list for a
piper Navajo or a 421!.
The parts that are hardest to get are the Turbocharger system. I recommend
keeping a spare turbo around.
Training is available. I can come to Australia.
Bill Leff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Victor Fernandez" <vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com> |
I have the JPI EDM-760 on my 500, works great. The Fuel Flow is great
too.
You lean to ROP or LOP, whichever you choose in a flash, no guesing at
all.
Highly recommended
Victor
HI 560
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
> I am leaning towards a JPI unit at this time
Hi Randy... just as well - apparently I was talking through my hat. My
brother tells me that, while the download features are good on the
AuRacle,
it is only available for a limited number of aircraft.
God bless,
Andrew
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Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system
http://www.nod32.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
Good Afternoon Victor,
I totally agree with the convenience of having good engine instrumentation,
but could I offer a new twist?
Rather than use the term LOP (Lean Of Peak) some folks are suggesting we
call it Green Of Peak or GOP. When in that admittedly lean mode, we are being
much more friendly to the environment by reducing the carbon emissions and we
are running the engine cooler which is always good. The idea of being on the
"Green" side sounds good to me!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/6/2007 2:23:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com writes:
have the JPI EDM-760 on my 500, works great. The Fuel Flow is great too.
You lean to ROP or LOP, whichever you choose in a flash, no guessing at all.
Highly recommended
Victor
HI 560
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Victor Fernandez" <vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com> |
Thanks for the advice Bob. Hadn't heard it before.
I thought GOP was Grand Ol' Party, just kidding
>From now on I'll use GOP
Speaking of green, have U seen the article on bio diesel fuels used on a jet
engine?
Let me see if I find the article or the link
http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/
http://www.greenflightinternational.com/
this article is from AOPA, enjoy
Victor
Jet flies on fast-food oil
By AOPA ePublishing staff
Bio JetThe day may come when the private and commercial jets crisscrossing
our skies run, at least in part, on plant-based fuels that don't contribute
to global warming or resource depletion.
That's the goal of pilot and entrepreneur Douglas Rodante who, on Oct. 1,
made the first jet flight fueled by 100-percent biodiesel. Rodante and Chief
Pilot Carol Sugars first flew a Czechoslovakian-built L-29 aircraft around
the pattern before making a 37-minute test-flight at altitudes up to 17,000
feet the following day. The aircraft, which is rated to run on a variety of
fuels, including heating oil, required no modifications to run on biodiesel.
"This proves that we can implement bio-fuels into our existing air and
ground transportation system," Rodante said of the first flights.
Rodante plans to make a cross-country flight from Nevada to Florida at the
end of November, as soon as he and his team have satisfied several FAA
testing and safety requirements. And they hope to modify a Learjet to make a
high-altitude round-the-world flight next year. The test program is being
conducted by Green Flight <http://www.greenflightinternational.com>
International and Biodiesel <http://www.biodieselsolutions.com> Solutions.
So just what was in the biodiesel used in the test flights? Recycled
vegetable oil from restaurants that has been treated with an additive to
remove the carbon chains. For the longer cross-country flight, the team
plans to use canola oil that has been similarly treated, but these aren't
the only possible sources of biodiesel.
"It's important for people to understand that we can use a lot of different
crops to make biodiesel, many of which do not compete with our food crops.
There are plants you can actually grow in the desert that would work,"
Rodante explained.
Even with the promise shown by these initial flights, don't expect to board
a commercial airliner running on biodiesel anytime soon. The fuel does have
a tendency to gel at cold temperatures and its solvent properties can cause
short-term fuel system clogs in vehicles that have previously been used with
traditional fossil fuels. But scientists and amateur enthusiasts alike are
working to resolve these problems and expect that some mixture of biodiesel
and traditional fuel will make its way into the mainstream in coming years.
"You don't have to use 100-percent biodiesel," said Rodante. "We're doing it
to make a point. But if we can implement even a small percentage of bio-fuel
into commercial aviation and land transportation, the reduction in carbon
emissions would be significant and contribute to alleviating our global
warming problems."
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Good Afternoon Victor,
I totally agree with the convenience of having good engine instrumentation,
but could I offer a new twist?
Rather than use the term LOP (Lean Of Peak) some folks are suggesting we
call it Green Of Peak or GOP. When in that admittedly lean mode, we are
being much more friendly to the environment by reducing the carbon emissions
and we are running the engine cooler which is always good. The idea of being
on the "Green" side sounds good to me!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/6/2007 2:23:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com writes:
have the JPI EDM-760 on my 500, works great. The Fuel Flow is great too.
You lean to ROP or LOP, whichever you choose in a flash, no guessing at all.
Highly recommended
Victor
HI 560
_____
See what's new
__________ Informacisn de NOD32, revisisn 2641 (20071106) __________
Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system
http://www.nod32.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Victor Fernandez" <vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com> |
Enjoy
When I was learning to fly in 1967 in Merced, Calif., we had no control
tower. We were taught that after engine start-up, we should pretend to call
the tower for taxi clearance.
Another pilot trainee started his engine, then immediately started to taxi.
The instructor stopped him and advised that he had forgotten to call for
clearance.
The trainee thought for a second, opened the pilot air vent, and, over the
roar of the engine, yelled, "Clear!"
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Good Afternoon Victor,
I totally agree with the convenience of having good engine instrumentation,
but could I offer a new twist?
Rather than use the term LOP (Lean Of Peak) some folks are suggesting we
call it Green Of Peak or GOP. When in that admittedly lean mode, we are
being much more friendly to the environment by reducing the carbon emissions
and we are running the engine cooler which is always good. The idea of being
on the "Green" side sounds good to me!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/6/2007 2:23:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com writes:
have the JPI EDM-760 on my 500, works great. The Fuel Flow is great too.
You lean to ROP or LOP, whichever you choose in a flash, no guessing at all.
Highly recommended
Victor
HI 560
_____
See what's new
__________ Informacisn de NOD32, revisisn 2641 (20071106) __________
Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system
http://www.nod32.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Good Afternoon Victor,
I totally agree with the convenience of having good engine instrumentation,
but could I offer a new twist?
Rather than use the term LOP (Lean Of Peak) some folks are suggesting we
call it Green Of Peak or GOP. When in that admittedly lean mode, we are
being much more friendly to the environment by reducing the carbon emissions
and we are running the engine cooler which is always good. The idea of being
on the "Green" side sounds good to me!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/6/2007 2:23:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com writes:
have the JPI EDM-760 on my 500, works great. The Fuel Flow is great too.
You lean to ROP or LOP, whichever you choose in a flash, no guessing at all.
Highly recommended
Victor
HI 560
_____
See what's new
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
In a message dated 11/6/2007 2:53:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,
vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com writes:
_http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/_ (http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/)
_http://www.greenflightinternational.com/_
(http://www.greenflightinternational.com/)
Interesting!
Thanks.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Surely, you don=99t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
Good Evening Nico,
What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
LOL no kidding....the worst greenhouse gas isn't carbon dioxide by any
means. It's methane. And methane is totally unregulated and we're
spewing uncountable millions of tons into the atmosphere every
year....but you'll never hear about that, since the whole global warming
thing is a political issue, not a scientific one.
Anyway, burn all the avgas you want, methane isn't a byproduct, and the
carbon dioxide is a low order greenhouse gas....
Regardless, anyone who thinks that we'll stop burning oil before the day
when there's no more of it in the ground is pretty naive in my opinion.
/J
nico css wrote:
>
> Surely, you dont buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *BobsV35B(at)aol.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:32 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> Good Afternoon Victor,
>
> I totally agree with the convenience of having good engine
> instrumentation, but could I offer a new twist?
>
> Rather than use the term LOP (Lean Of Peak) some folks are suggesting
> we call it Green Of Peak or GOP. When in that admittedly lean mode, we
> are being much more friendly to the environment by reducing the carbon
> emissions and we are running the engine cooler which is always good.
> The idea of being on the "Green" side sounds good to me!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 2:23:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com writes:
>
> have the JPI EDM-760 on my 500, works great. The Fuel Flow is
> great too. You lean to ROP or LOP, whichever you choose in a
> flash, no guessing at all. Highly recommended
>
> Victor
>
> HI 560
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's new
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Turbo controllers |
After installing 2 brand new turbos the waste gate controller is now
spewing oil and needs to be overhauled.
Does anyone have serviceable units around?
Search is over so not so urgent but another pilot could go missing.
Tom Fisher
C-GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Listers Are Saying... |
November is Matronics List Fund Raiser month and a number people been sending some
really nice comments regarding the Lists. I thought I'd share a few below.
The Lists are completely supported by your Contributions. All of the bills for
new hardware, connectivity, and electricity are paid by the generous support
of the List members.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation of the List
and Forums:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
================= What Listers Are Saying ================
Flying and building is much safer with this List!!
Robert D.
Thanks for having and maintaining such a great resource to
all of us builders and flyers.
Wayne E.
Love the fact that you haven't caved to advertising!
Peter J.
..a great resource!!
Robert C.
Not building at the moment, but the Lists keeps me right
up to date with what's going on.
Chris D.
The web forum has been running great.
James O.
I enjoy this [List] site very much...
Paul C.
This is a great list!
Albert G.
..a valuable resource!
Roger C.
I am deployed to Pakistan right now, and being able
to go on-line and keep up with the aircraft discussions
helps keep the aircraft building dream alive in my mind!
Gregory C.
..fantastic service!
Roger M.
..clearly a work of passion!
Mike C.
It is a great service to us!
Kevin C.
The list is a wonderful resource...
Ralph O.
[The Lists] have been the single greatest resource in
building my RV-9A and now my RV-10.
Albert G.
..a valuable and always improving service.
Dick S.
STILL THE BEST BARGAIN AROUND!!
Owen B.
..such a valuable tool.
Jon M.
[The Lists] have been an invaluable resource for me
as a Zenith homebuilder.
David G.
The opportunity to meet (on line at least) many other
interesting builders and to make some new friends is
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Bob-
That's certainly putting a new "Spin" on things!
Green in terms of emissions- and green for the wallet too. ;-)
Robert Randazzo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Good Afternoon Victor,
I totally agree with the convenience of having good engine instrumentation,
but could I offer a new twist?
Rather than use the term LOP (Lean Of Peak) some folks are suggesting we
call it Green Of Peak or GOP. When in that admittedly lean mode, we are
being much more friendly to the environment by reducing the carbon emissions
and we are running the engine cooler which is always good. The idea of being
on the "Green" side sounds good to me!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/6/2007 2:23:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com writes:
have the JPI EDM-760 on my 500, works great. The Fuel Flow is great too.
You lean to ROP or LOP, whichever you choose in a flash, no guessing at all.
Highly recommended
Victor
HI 560
_____
See what's new
__________ NOD32 2642 (20071106) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Guys/Gals-
This stunt was pulled at our local field- and the back side of this story is
how much damage was done to the airplane's fuel and ignition systems before
the FAA stepped in to put a stop to the foolishness. Word around town is
that the "Feds" were REALLY not amused at the risks taken.
We really don't need someone putting an airplane into a nearby neighborhood-
relations are tough enough as it is.
of course- that isn' the sort of thing you'd put into a press release-
especially when you are hoping for investors....
My opinion, of cousre.
RSR
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Victor
Fernandez
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Thanks for the advice Bob. Hadn't heard it before.
I thought GOP was Grand Ol' Party, just kidding
>From now on I'll use GOP
Speaking of green, have U seen the article on bio diesel fuels used on a jet
engine?
Let me see if I find the article or the link
http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/
http://www.greenflightinternational.com/
this article is from AOPA, enjoy
Victor
Jet flies on fast-food oil
By AOPA ePublishing staff
Bio JetThe day may come when the private and commercial jets crisscrossing
our skies run, at least in part, on plant-based fuels that don't contribute
to global warming or resource depletion.
That's the goal of pilot and entrepreneur Douglas Rodante who, on Oct. 1,
made the first jet flight fueled by 100-percent biodiesel. Rodante and Chief
Pilot Carol Sugars first flew a Czechoslovakian-built L-29 aircraft around
the pattern before making a 37-minute test-flight at altitudes up to 17,000
feet the following day. The aircraft, which is rated to run on a variety of
fuels, including heating oil, required no modifications to run on biodiesel.
"This proves that we can implement bio-fuels into our existing air and
ground transportation system," Rodante said of the first flights.
Rodante plans to make a cross-country flight from Nevada to Florida at the
end of November, as soon as he and his team have satisfied several FAA
testing and safety requirements. And they hope to modify a Learjet to make a
high-altitude round-the-world flight next year. The test program is being
conducted by Green Flight <http://www.greenflightinternational.com>
International and Biodiesel <http://www.biodieselsolutions.com> Solutions.
So just what was in the biodiesel used in the test flights? Recycled
vegetable oil from restaurants that has been treated with an additive to
remove the carbon chains. For the longer cross-country flight, the team
plans to use canola oil that has been similarly treated, but these aren't
the only possible sources of biodiesel.
"It's important for people to understand that we can use a lot of different
crops to make biodiesel, many of which do not compete with our food crops.
There are plants you can actually grow in the desert that would work,"
Rodante explained.
Even with the promise shown by these initial flights, don't expect to board
a commercial airliner running on biodiesel anytime soon. The fuel does have
a tendency to gel at cold temperatures and its solvent properties can cause
short-term fuel system clogs in vehicles that have previously been used with
traditional fossil fuels. But scientists and amateur enthusiasts alike are
working to resolve these problems and expect that some mixture of biodiesel
and traditional fuel will make its way into the mainstream in coming years.
"You don't have to use 100-percent biodiesel," said Rodante. "We're doing it
to make a point. But if we can implement even a small percentage of bio-fuel
into commercial aviation and land transportation, the reduction in carbon
emissions would be significant and contribute to alleviating our global
warming problems."
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Good Afternoon Victor,
I totally agree with the convenience of having good engine instrumentation,
but could I offer a new twist?
Rather than use the term LOP (Lean Of Peak) some folks are suggesting we
call it Green Of Peak or GOP. When in that admittedly lean mode, we are
being much more friendly to the environment by reducing the carbon emissions
and we are running the engine cooler which is always good. The idea of being
on the "Green" side sounds good to me!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/6/2007 2:23:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
vfc(at)fernandezgonzalez.com writes:
have the JPI EDM-760 on my 500, works great. The Fuel Flow is great too.
You lean to ROP or LOP, whichever you choose in a flash, no guessing at all.
Highly recommended
Victor
HI 560
_____
See what's new
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
__________ Informacisn de NOD32, revisisn 2641 (20071106) __________
Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system
http://www.nod32.com
__________ NOD32 2642 (20071106) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Oh, I was just commenting on the 'green' in terms of the environment, Bob. I
believe the carbon-footprint concept and the associated credits that one can
purchase to offset one's carbon footprint while doing nothing to reduce
carbon emissions, is a huge hoax. I also believe we are not responsible for
global warming, if it is indeed heating up, that is to say.
I did not intend to vilify what you said.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
Good Evening Nico,
What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
_____
See what's
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
Good Afternoon Nico,
I tend to agree with your interpretation, but it is rather nice to be able
to say that we are attempting to go with the flow as far as doing our part
whether it helps any or not. The entire issue of operating on the lean sid
e of
Best Power or on the lean side of Peak EGT is so fraught with untruths and
old wives tales that it is nice to have something like Green Of Peak that,
at
least, sounds good!
Happy Skies,
Old (been operating on the Green Side for fifty-five plus years) Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/7/2007 12:14:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Oh, I was just commenting on the =98green=99 in terms of the en
vironment, Bob.
I believe the carbon-footprint concept and the associated credits that one
can purchase to offset one=99s carbon footprint while doing nothing t
o reduce
carbon emissions, is a huge hoax. I also believe we are not responsible for
global warming, if it is indeed heating up, that is to say.
I did not intend to vilify what you said.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Hi Bob,
Yup, I agree. It does sound better. GOP vs LOP. The former even sounds as if
it has substance. :-)
I was always under the belief that running GOP would harm my engines, and
it's anybody's guess how much fuel I have dumped overboard unnecessarily.
Anyway, this site is loaded with experience and talent, which has taught me
a couple of things.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Good Afternoon Nico,
I tend to agree with your interpretation, but it is rather nice to be able
to say that we are attempting to go with the flow as far as doing our part
whether it helps any or not. The entire issue of operating on the lean side
of Best Power or on the lean side of Peak EGT is so fraught with untruths
and old wives tales that it is nice to have something like Green Of Peak
that, at least, sounds good!
Happy Skies,
Old (been operating on the Green Side for fifty-five plus years) Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/7/2007 12:14:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Oh, I was just commenting on the 'green' in terms of the environment, Bob. I
believe the carbon-footprint concept and the associated credits that one can
purchase to offset one's carbon footprint while doing nothing to reduce
carbon emissions, is a huge hoax. I also believe we are not responsible for
global warming, if it is indeed heating up, that is to say.
I did not intend to vilify what you said.
Nico
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Wastegate controllers |
Help again,
I am in need of serviceable (no leaks either) wastegate controllers,
anyone?
Tom
C-GISS
Cell:604-649-9320
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
| From: | "BradG27Z" <BradG27Z(at)comcast.net> |
I will pay premium dollar for the right A/C!I am still searching for the right
500B or 500S. I am looking for a solid airframe, less than 5,000 TT, NO DAMAGE
HISTORY, no corrosion or undocumented repairs. Prefer an A/C that has stayed
in the US and well cared for. Time on engines and props not important. Avionics
not important. Paint and interior not important. All logs and hopefully hangared.
Come on, there's got to be someone out there with a real cream puff that
is willing to part. (I am a private individual). Thanks,
Brad
360-658-9700[/b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144484#144484
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
I believe in the hoax.
I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing dramatically as
billions more people adopt our style of living. The fact that the amount
of these gases in the atmosphere influence the temperature cannot
seriously be in dispute.
Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
sustainable.
I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
Green of Peak..... I like that.....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Surely, you don=99t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
Good Evening Nico,
What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wastegate controllers |
| From: | "rosie" <rosepierobon(at)gmail.com> |
Wow, you must be rich if you can afford all those parts. Do you need a lady?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144508#144508
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wastegate controllers |
As a matter of fact...........)(
Tom.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rosie" <rosepierobon(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:19 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Wastegate controllers
>
> Wow, you must be rich if you can afford all those parts. Do you need a
> lady?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144508#144508
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike floyd <floydgm(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wastegate controllers |
Check with Gary at Main Turbos for information about those controllers. He
is a weath of knowlege about all things turbocharged.
We had a set on N7UP but I have no idea where they might have gone, the in
surance company sold the salvage on that ship.
Main Turbo Systems
234 Cotta CT.
Visalia CA. 93292
800-847-8815
Mike
Northern Commanders LLC
From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.caTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject:
Commander-List: Wastegate controllersDate: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 13:49:08 -0800
Help again,
I am in need of serviceable (no leaks either) wastegate controllers, anyone
?
Tom
C-GISS
Cell:604-649-9320
_________________________________________________________________
!
ilnews
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve @ Col-East
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
I believe in the hoax.
I am not quite sure how I believe. Yes, the temperatures are
increasing, but also on several of the planets with no human beings on
them due to the sun's increased temperature lately, so could it be a
natural cycle.
There are lots of very bright scientist on both sides of the debate.
Part of the problem is anyone so smart that he can invent the
internet, must be correct, even if he is a Politician. And I have
always believed, you don't have to lie to be a Politician but its an
asset.
Guess we will just have to wait on Milt and Bilbo to check in and
straighten us all out.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
Good Evening Nico,
I feel that I was very fortunate in that in 1954 I was sent by my employer
to a school taught by some Curtiss Wright Engineers who did a great job of
explaining the combustion process. It piqued my curiosity and I adapted wha
t I
had been taught to operating my personal engines.
I keep learning everyday, but what I was taught almost fifty-five years ago
is being verified daily.
Good Old GOP!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/7/2007 3:35:53 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
I was always under the belief that running GOP would harm my engines, and i
t=99
s anybody=99s guess how much fuel I have dumped overboard unnecessari
ly.
Anyway, this site is loaded with experience and talent, which has taught me
a
couple of things.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | environment global warming |
Steve,
I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean up
where
we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running engine than
one
that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly believe that no
reasonable
person would disagree that cleaning up when we are done or show care
when we
deal with what we do to the environment is a good and responsible thing
to
do. But to assume that we are influencing the globe=92s temperature is
just
not rational. If you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus,
I=92ll join
you if it means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to
believe that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not
rational.
Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
eruption,
the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere reaching up to
20,000=92
with the noise being heard up to 100 miles away. The August 1883
eruptions
caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked in South Africa, thousands of
miles
away because of them. The sound of the explosions could be heard in
Australia more than 2,000 miles away and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000
miles
away. It shot more than 20 cubic kilometers of ash and toxic gasses,
such as
sulfur dioxide and sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and
spread it all over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The
sky
was blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and
artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash that
fell back to the earth covered about one million square kilometers
drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and increasing the
landmass
of several islands in the area.
In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some tourists call a
pristine environment.
Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
see
the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched into the
atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the nineties, the
Mt.
St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events spewing millions of
tons
of toxic material into the air; an unknown amount of submarine fissures
spewing toxic magma into the oceans, massive forest fires ' and the
planet
deals with it, as it has been for millions of years, then it=92s hard to
swallow the propaganda of global warming as anything but a hoax to
blackmail
us into parting with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you
seen a
more blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this as
a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
deg,
how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with friends
about
10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in the morning. Some
mornings in the winter, the temperature difference is more than 18
degrees
between the house and the tennis courts. Never, ever in the 10 years
I=92ve
been playing there several times per week, has the temperature been the
same
at the house and at the courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and
1,000=92
down to the coast and the temperature would be vastly different again.
On
the same day. If the wind blows (you=92ve heard of the Santa Ana=92s,
I=92m sure)
the entire region=92s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and
when
do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? Satellites?
Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years ago which is
the
time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the danger we=92re in?
Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
aint
mud.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
I believe in the hoax.
I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all contribute. 10,000
years
of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at the dawn of the industrial
age.
The rate of change is increasing dramatically as billions more people
adopt
our style of living. The fact that the amount of these gases in the
atmosphere influence the temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I guess
I'm
naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
sustainable.
I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. But
if
day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
Green of Peak..... I like that.....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
Good Evening Nico,
What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
_____
See what's
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.
com
/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
Brad - a couple of us did reply to you. I can't figure out if you didn't get
our email, or if you don't get the picture- but I haven't seen any reply,
other than basically a carbon copy of your first request..
bobf
500B
On 11/7/07, BradG27Z wrote:
>
>
> I will pay premium dollar for the right A/C!I am still searching for the
> right 500B or 500S. I am looking for a solid airframe, less than 5,000 TT,
> NO DAMAGE HISTORY, no corrosion or undocumented repairs. Prefer an A/C that
> has stayed in the US and well cared for. Time on engines and props not
> important. Avionics not important. Paint and interior not important. All
> logs and hopefully hangared. Come on, there's got to be someone out there
> with a real cream puff that is willing to part. (I am a private individual).
> Thanks,
> Brad
> 360-658-9700[/b]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144484#144484
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
I'll never turn down an invitation like that, however I'm sure Milt is much
more knowledgeable than I.
I would agree on the asset referred to and would add on that it is almost as
valuable as being able to look you straight in the eye while peeing in your
front pocket.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve @ Col-East <mailto:steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
I believe in the hoax.
I am not quite sure how I believe. Yes, the temperatures are increasing,
but also on several of the planets with no human beings on them due to the
sun's increased temperature lately, so could it be a natural cycle.
There are lots of very bright scientist on both sides of the debate.
Part of the problem is anyone so smart that he can invent the internet, must
be correct, even if he is a Politician. And I have always believed, you
don't have to lie to be a Politician but its an asset.
Guess we will just have to wait on Milt and Bilbo to check in and straighten
us all out.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | environment global warming |
Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
Subject: Commander-List: environment global warming
Steve,
I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean up
where
we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running engine than
one
that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly believe that no
reasonable
person would disagree that cleaning up when we are done or show care
when we
deal with what we do to the environment is a good and responsible thing
to
do. But to assume that we are influencing the globe=92s temperature is
just
not rational. If you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus,
I=92ll join
you if it means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to
believe that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not
rational.
Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
eruption,
the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere reaching up to
20,000=92
with the noise being heard up to 100 miles away. The August 1883
eruptions
caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked in South Africa, thousands of
miles
away because of them. The sound of the explosions could be heard in
Australia more than 2,000 miles away and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000
miles
away. It shot more than 20 cubic kilometers of ash and toxic gasses,
such as
sulfur dioxide and sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and
spread it all over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The
sky
was blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and
artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash that
fell back to the earth covered about one million square kilometers
drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and increasing the
landmass
of several islands in the area.
In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some tourists call a
pristine environment.
Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
see
the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched into the
atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the nineties, the
Mt.
St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events spewing millions of
tons
of toxic material into the air; an unknown amount of submarine fissures
spewing toxic magma into the oceans, massive forest fires ' and the
planet
deals with it, as it has been for millions of years, then it=92s hard to
swallow the propaganda of global warming as anything but a hoax to
blackmail
us into parting with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you
seen a
more blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this as
a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
deg,
how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with friends
about
10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in the morning. Some
mornings in the winter, the temperature difference is more than 18
degrees
between the house and the tennis courts. Never, ever in the 10 years
I=92ve
been playing there several times per week, has the temperature been the
same
at the house and at the courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and
1,000=92
down to the coast and the temperature would be vastly different again.
On
the same day. If the wind blows (you=92ve heard of the Santa Ana=92s,
I=92m sure)
the entire region=92s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and
when
do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? Satellites?
Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years ago which is
the
time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the danger we=92re in?
Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
aint
mud.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
I believe in the hoax.
I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all contribute. 10,000
years
of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at the dawn of the industrial
age.
The rate of change is increasing dramatically as billions more people
adopt
our style of living. The fact that the amount of these gases in the
atmosphere influence the temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I guess
I'm
naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
sustainable.
I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. But
if
day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
Green of Peak..... I like that.....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
Good Evening Nico,
What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
_____
See what's
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.
com
/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
I ask the indulgence of the group for posting, but I'd like to thank
Nico for his words. I'd be happy to chat of-list as this has strayed
from Commander stuff.
Good words Nico, we're not that far apart. But yeah, I do believe human
activity has reached a level to where it can affect the environment. If
I understand just a little of the science (and if the scientists are
right!), carbon dioxide is more persistent versus a lot of other
contaminants, and we're removing a lot of the filtering mechanism for
CO2 while generating more and more of the stuff. There has been a huge
spike in Co2 in the past 200 hundred years, and the rate at which it is
increasing, is itself increasing. It's the highest its been in 800,000
years or some such thing.
I've read there is a fairly direct relationship with the amount of Co2
and methane, and climate change. If we accept the premise that the level
of some gases in the atmosphere might influence climate, it doesn't seem
like much of a stretch to believe we are contributing to it. Whether by
war, or normal human activity (hard to tell them apart sometimes), it is
all contributing.
My interest is also somewhat self serving. At the current rate of growth
in consumption of energy and resources, the demand will far outstrip
supply. China alone will out consume the world's supply of both within a
generation. Something is going to have to give.
Peace,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
Subject: Commander-List: environment global warming
Steve,
I don't disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
up where we picnic and don't waste water, prefer a cleaner running
engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly believe
that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when we are
done or show care when we deal with what we do to the environment is a
good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that we are influencing
the globe's temperature is just not rational. If you claim to be na=EFve
and believe in Santa Claus, I'll join you if it means being responsible
custodians of the environment. But to believe that we can, are able, to
affect climate change, is just not rational.
Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere reaching
up to 20,000' with the noise being heard up to 100 miles away. The
August 1883 eruptions caused 100' tsunamis and boats rocked in South
Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of the
explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away and in
Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic
kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and sulfuric
acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all over the
planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was blood red and
the moon was blue for years after the explosion and artists painted red
sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash that fell back to the
earth covered about one million square kilometers drastically altering
the ocean floor in the area and increasing the landmass of several
islands in the area.
In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the
temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some
tourists call a pristine environment.
Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the nineties,
the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events spewing
millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown amount of
submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, massive forest
fires - and the planet deals with it, as it has been for millions of
years, then it's hard to swallow the propaganda of global warming as
anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting with very large sums of
money. I mean, where have you seen a more blatant fraud than the
carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, my
friend. You wouldn't part with five bucks if someone proposed this as a
business deal to you. You'd probably call the cops.
One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference is more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. Never, ever in
the 10 years I've been playing there several times per week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the courts. Ten miles? I
can go 20 miles west and 1,000' down to the coast and the temperature
would be vastly different again. On the same day. If the wind blows
(you've heard of the Santa Ana's, I'm sure) the entire region's
temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and when do they measure
to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? Satellites? Weather
stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years ago which is the
time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the danger we're in?
Nah. I'd stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
aint mud.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
I believe in the hoax.
I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing dramatically as
billions more people adopt our style of living. The fact that the amount
of these gases in the atmosphere influence the temperature cannot
seriously be in dispute.
Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I
guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
sustainable.
I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
Green of Peak..... I like that.....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
Good Evening Nico,
What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
See what's
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C
ommander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of
the stupidity of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I dont disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
> up where we picnic and dont waste water, prefer a cleaner running
> engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly
> believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when
> we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the
> environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that
> we are influencing the globes temperature is just not rational. If
> you claim to be nave and believe in Santa Claus, Ill join you if it
> means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe
> that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
> eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere
> reaching up to 20,000 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles
> away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100 tsunamis and boats rocked
> in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of
> the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away
> and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic
> kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and
> sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all
> over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was
> blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and
> artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash
> that fell back to the earth covered about one million square
> kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and
> increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the
> temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some
> tourists call a pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
> see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched
> into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the
> nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events
> spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown
> amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans,
> massive forest fires and the planet deals with it, as it has been
> for millions of years, then its hard to swallow the propaganda of
> global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting
> with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more
> blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
> responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle,
> my friend. You wouldnt part with five bucks if someone proposed this
> as a business deal to you. Youd probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
> deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in
> the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference
> is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts.
> Never, ever in the 10 years Ive been playing there several times per
> week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the
> courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000 down to the coast
> and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day.
> If the wind blows (youve heard of the Santa Anas, Im sure) the
> entire regions temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and
> when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference?
> Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years
> ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the
> danger were in?
>
> Nah. Id stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
> aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Steve @ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
> environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture,
> manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all
> contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at
> the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing
> dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The
> fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the
> temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I
> guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
> sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Surely, you dont buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
| From: | "BradG27Z" <BradG27Z(at)comcast.net> |
I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not interested
in an aircraft with a damage history.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144568#144568
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
Stay clear of this one, there certainly appears to be an attitude problem,
not sure if he even deserves to own a Commander.
Tom.
----- Original Message -----
From: "BradG27Z" <BradG27Z(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:41 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
>
> I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not
> interested in an aircraft with a damage history.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144568#144568
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
| From: | "rosie" <rosepierobon(at)GMAIL.COM> |
[quote="BradG27Z"]I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I
am not interested in an aircraft with a damage history.[/quote]
Well, my Grandpa left a me a nice plane but the airframe is over 20 hours.
I am trying to decide if I should learn to fly.
I was thinking of learning to fly and drop food to the hungry people of the world.
You sound rude, I would not sell to someone so rude.
Manners are important in every situation.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144588#144588
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
here here...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
hehehe...OK then.
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Test from GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
BradG27Z wrote:
> I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not interested
in an aircraft with a damage history.
Wow Brad,
Responsive AND polite! Perhaps you should build yourself a Commander from scratch.
That certainly is the (only) way to get what you want.
Although I'm also certain that people here will be tripping over themselves to
help you. Hold your breath, the replies will be pouring in!
Or, better yet, get yourself a new Cessna 172. It fits all your requirements, and
we won't have to deal with you.
/J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144619#144619
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
It's like wanting to marry at age 50 and looking for a virgin.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Stay clear of this one, there certainly appears to be an attitude problem,
not sure if he even deserves to own a Commander.
Tom.
----- Original Message -----
From: "BradG27Z" <BradG27Z(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:41 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
>
> I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not
> interested in an aircraft with a damage history.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144568#144568
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
Hold on guys, we need more people posting crazy messages and should be
encouraging it.
It helps make me look more normal.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:48 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
>
>
> BradG27Z wrote:
>> I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not
>> interested in an aircraft with a damage history.
>
>
> Wow Brad,
>
> Responsive AND polite! Perhaps you should build yourself a Commander from
> scratch. That certainly is the (only) way to get what you want.
>
> Although I'm also certain that people here will be tripping over
> themselves to help you. Hold your breath, the replies will be pouring in!
>
> Or, better yet, get yourself a new Cessna 172. It fits all your
> requirements, and we won't have to deal with you.
>
> /J
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144619#144619
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com> |
| Subject: | Cream Puffs and such |
Hey Guys,
Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure you will).....
Wouldn't a 'Cream Puff' 500S or B of under 5000 hrs possibly have a
serious spar issue waiting to be found where as over 10,000 hrs, if
it's still flying it's had any possible spar issues dealt with?
Though familiar with the issues for my 680E I'm not too sure about
others.
Cate
N4278S
1959 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
Wait.....
Is that unrealistic?????
What if she owns a lowctime commander too??
:-p
Robert S. Randazzo
Precision Manuals Development Group
http://www.precisionmanuals.com
On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:35 AM, "nico css" wrote:
> >
>
> It's like wanting to marry at age 50 and looking for a virgin.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
> Fisher
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:46 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
> puff!
>
>
>
> Stay clear of this one, there certainly appears to be an attitude
> problem,
> not sure if he even deserves to own a Commander.
> Tom.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BradG27Z" <BradG27Z(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:41 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
>
>
>> >
>>
>> I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not
>> interested in an aircraft with a damage history.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144568#144568
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com> |
| Subject: | environment global warming |
Nico,
Thanks for this.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:03 PM
Subject: Commander-List: environment global warming
Steve,
I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean up
where
we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running engine than
one
that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly believe that no
reasonable
person would disagree that cleaning up when we are done or show care
when we
deal with what we do to the environment is a good and responsible thing
to
do. But to assume that we are influencing the globe=92s temperature is
just
not rational. If you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus,
I=92ll join
you if it means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to
believe that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not
rational.
Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
eruption,
the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere reaching up to
20,000=92
with the noise being heard up to 100 miles away. The August 1883
eruptions
caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked in South Africa, thousands of
miles
away because of them. The sound of the explosions could be heard in
Australia more than 2,000 miles away and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000
miles
away. It shot more than 20 cubic kilometers of ash and toxic gasses,
such as
sulfur dioxide and sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and
spread it all over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The
sky
was blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and
artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash that
fell back to the earth covered about one million square kilometers
drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and increasing the
landmass
of several islands in the area.
In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some tourists call a
pristine environment.
Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
see
the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched into the
atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the nineties, the
Mt.
St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events spewing millions of
tons
of toxic material into the air; an unknown amount of submarine fissures
spewing toxic magma into the oceans, massive forest fires ' and the
planet
deals with it, as it has been for millions of years, then it=92s hard to
swallow the propaganda of global warming as anything but a hoax to
blackmail
us into parting with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you
seen a
more blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this as
a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
deg,
how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with friends
about
10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in the morning. Some
mornings in the winter, the temperature difference is more than 18
degrees
between the house and the tennis courts. Never, ever in the 10 years
I=92ve
been playing there several times per week, has the temperature been the
same
at the house and at the courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and
1,000=92
down to the coast and the temperature would be vastly different again.
On
the same day. If the wind blows (you=92ve heard of the Santa Ana=92s,
I=92m sure)
the entire region=92s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and
when
do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? Satellites?
Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years ago which is
the
time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the danger we=92re in?
Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
aint
mud.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
I believe in the hoax.
I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all contribute. 10,000
years
of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at the dawn of the industrial
age.
The rate of change is increasing dramatically as billions more people
adopt
our style of living. The fact that the amount of these gases in the
atmosphere influence the temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I guess
I'm
naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
sustainable.
I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. But
if
day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
Green of Peak..... I like that.....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
Good Evening Nico,
What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
_____
See what's
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.
com
/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
Yes, Nico, you worded this far better than I could and we are of the
same opinion.
/John
Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
>
> Nico,
>
> Thanks for this.
>
> Moe
>
> N680RR
>
> 680F(p)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I dont disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
> up where we picnic and dont waste water, prefer a cleaner running
> engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly
> believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when
> we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the
> environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that
> we are influencing the globes temperature is just not rational. If
> you claim to be nave and believe in Santa Claus, Ill join you if it
> means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe
> that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
> eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere
> reaching up to 20,000 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles
> away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100 tsunamis and boats rocked
> in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of
> the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away
> and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic
> kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and
> sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all
> over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was
> blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and
> artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash
> that fell back to the earth covered about one million square
> kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and
> increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the
> temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some
> tourists call a pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
> see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched
> into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the
> nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events
> spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown
> amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans,
> massive forest fires and the planet deals with it, as it has been
> for millions of years, then its hard to swallow the propaganda of
> global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting
> with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more
> blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
> responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle,
> my friend. You wouldnt part with five bucks if someone proposed this
> as a business deal to you. Youd probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
> deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in
> the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference
> is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts.
> Never, ever in the 10 years Ive been playing there several times per
> week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the
> courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000 down to the coast
> and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day.
> If the wind blows (youve heard of the Santa Anas, Im sure) the
> entire regions temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and
> when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference?
> Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years
> ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the
> danger were in?
>
> Nah. Id stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
> aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Steve @ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
> environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture,
> manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all
> contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at
> the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing
> dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The
> fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the
> temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I
> guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
> sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Surely, you dont buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
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>
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>
> * *
>
> * *
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> * *
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> *http://forums.matronics.com*
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>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lloyd SILVERMAN" <lloydsss(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cream Puffs and such |
Hey guys, n6290x is a front door 500B with under 2700 hrs since new. Forget
the creampuff, it needs a new panel but otherwise is a great solid bird as
are most 500b's.
On 11/8/07, Catherine Chagnot wrote:
>
> cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure you will).....
>
> Wouldn't a 'Cream Puff' 500S or B of under 5000 hrs possibly have a
> serious spar issue waiting to be found where as over 10,000 hrs, if
> it's still flying it's had any possible spar issues dealt with?
> Though familiar with the issues for my 680E I'm not too sure about
> others.
>
> Cate
> N4278S
> 1959 680E
>
>
--
LLOYD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff! |
Hey Guys,
Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure you will).....
Wouldn't a 'Cream Puff' 500S or B of under 5000 hrs possibly have a
serious spar issue waiting to be found where as over 10,000 hrs, if
it's still flying it's had any possible spar issues dealt with?
Though familiar with the issues for my 680E I'm not too sure about
others.
Cate
N4278S
1959 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | environment global warming |
"Toyota Pious"
I like that. May I use it?
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of
the stupidity of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I dont disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
> up where we picnic and dont waste water, prefer a cleaner running
> engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly
> believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when
> we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the
> environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that
> we are influencing the globes temperature is just not rational. If
> you claim to be nave and believe in Santa Claus, Ill join you if it
> means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe
> that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
> eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere
> reaching up to 20,000 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles
> away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100 tsunamis and boats rocked
> in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of
> the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away
> and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic
> kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and
> sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all
> over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was
> blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and
> artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash
> that fell back to the earth covered about one million square
> kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and
> increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the
> temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some
> tourists call a pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
> see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched
> into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the
> nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events
> spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown
> amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans,
> massive forest fires and the planet deals with it, as it has been
> for millions of years, then its hard to swallow the propaganda of
> global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting
> with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more
> blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
> responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle,
> my friend. You wouldnt part with five bucks if someone proposed this
> as a business deal to you. Youd probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
> deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in
> the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference
> is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts.
> Never, ever in the 10 years Ive been playing there several times per
> week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the
> courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000 down to the coast
> and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day.
> If the wind blows (youve heard of the Santa Anas, Im sure) the
> entire regions temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and
> when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference?
> Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years
> ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the
> danger were in?
>
> Nah. Id stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
> aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Steve @ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
> environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture,
> manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all
> contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at
> the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing
> dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The
> fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the
> temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I
> guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
> sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Surely, you dont buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
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="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
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> * *
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> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
Even I hate the noxious clouds of smug they produce.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> "Toyota Pious"
> I like that. May I use it?
> bilbo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:01 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
>
>
> Nico,
>
> I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
> a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
> Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of
> the stupidity of the politicians.
>
> I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
> US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
> when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
> elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
> as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
> zero-environmental-impact resident.
>
> I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
> past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
> science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
> is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
> planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
> other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
> be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
> teeming with new species.
>
> Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
> clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
> clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
> eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
>
> A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
> battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
> log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
> overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
> after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
> down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
> were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
> later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
>
> I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
> driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
> called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
> environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
> normal car.
>
> /ramble mode off/
>
> /John
>
>
> Bill Bow wrote:
>>
>> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>>
>> bilbo
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico
>> css
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I don't disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
>> the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
>> up where we picnic and don't waste water, prefer a cleaner running
>> engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly
>> believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when
>> we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the
>> environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that
>> we are influencing the globe's temperature is just not rational. If
>> you claim to be nave and believe in Santa Claus, I'll join you if it
>> means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe
>> that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>>
>> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
>> eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere
>> reaching up to 20,000' with the noise being heard up to 100 miles
>> away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100' tsunamis and boats rocked
>> in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of
>> the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away
>> and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic
>> kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and
>> sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all
>> over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was
>> blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and
>> artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash
>> that fell back to the earth covered about one million square
>> kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and
>> increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>>
>> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
>> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the
>> temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some
>> tourists call a pristine environment.
>>
>> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>> see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched
>> into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the
>> nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events
>> spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown
>> amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans,
>> massive forest fires - and the planet deals with it, as it has been
>> for millions of years, then it's hard to swallow the propaganda of
>> global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting
>> with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more
>> blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
>>
>> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
>> responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle,
>> my friend. You wouldn't part with five bucks if someone proposed this
>> as a business deal to you. You'd probably call the cops.
>>
>> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>> deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
>> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in
>> the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference
>> is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts.
>> Never, ever in the 10 years I've been playing there several times per
>> week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the
>> courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000' down to the coast
>> and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day.
>> If the wind blows (you've heard of the Santa Ana's, I'm sure) the
>> entire region's temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and
>> when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference?
>> Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years
>> ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the
>> danger we're in?
>>
>> Nah. I'd stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
>> aint mud.
>>
>> Nico
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Steve @ Col-East
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>>
>> I believe in the hoax.
>>
>> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>> environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture,
>> manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all
>> contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at
>> the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing
>> dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The
>> fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the
>> temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>>
>> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I
>> guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
>> sustainable.
>>
>> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
>> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>>
>> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>>
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>>
>> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>>
>> Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>>
>> Good Evening Nico,
>>
>> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>>
>> Happy Skies,
>>
>> Old Bob
>> AKA
>> Bob Siegfried
>> Ancient Aviator
>> Stearman N3977A
>> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>> Downers Grove, IL 60516
>> 630 985-8503
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> See what's
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.co
> m/Navigator?Commander-List*
>>
>> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
See.....Steve knows where I got it :-).
Steve @ Col-East wrote:
>
>
> Even I hate the noxious clouds of smug they produce.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
>
>
>>
>>
>> "Toyota Pious"
>> I like that. May I use it?
>> bilbo
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>> Vormbaum
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:01 PM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
>>
>>
>> Nico,
>>
>> I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
>> a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
>> Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of
>> the stupidity of the politicians.
>>
>> I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
>> US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
>> when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
>> elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
>> as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
>> zero-environmental-impact resident.
>>
>> I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
>> past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
>> science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
>> is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
>> planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
>> other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
>> be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
>> teeming with new species.
>>
>> Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
>> clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
>> clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
>> eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
>>
>> A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
>> battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
>> log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
>> overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
>> after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
>> down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
>> were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
>> later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
>>
>> I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
>> driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
>> called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
>> environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
>> normal car.
>>
>> /ramble mode off/
>>
>> /John
>>
>>
>> Bill Bow wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>>>
>>> bilbo
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>> *nico css
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
>>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>>>
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>> I don't disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
>>> the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
>>> up where we picnic and don't waste water, prefer a cleaner running
>>> engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly
>>> believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when
>>> we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the
>>> environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that
>>> we are influencing the globe's temperature is just not rational. If
>>> you claim to be nave and believe in Santa Claus, I'll join you if it
>>> means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe
>>> that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>>>
>>> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
>>> eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere
>>> reaching up to 20,000' with the noise being heard up to 100 miles
>>> away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100' tsunamis and boats rocked
>>> in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of
>>> the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away
>>> and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic
>>> kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and
>>> sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all
>>> over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was
>>> blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and
>>> artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash
>>> that fell back to the earth covered about one million square
>>> kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and
>>> increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>>>
>>> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
>>> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the
>>> temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some
>>> tourists call a pristine environment.
>>>
>>> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>>> see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched
>>> into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the
>>> nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events
>>> spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown
>>> amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans,
>>> massive forest fires - and the planet deals with it, as it has been
>>> for millions of years, then it's hard to swallow the propaganda of
>>> global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting
>>> with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more
>>> blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
>>>
>>> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
>>> responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle,
>>> my friend. You wouldn't part with five bucks if someone proposed this
>>> as a business deal to you. You'd probably call the cops.
>>>
>>> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>>> deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
>>> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in
>>> the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference
>>> is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts.
>>> Never, ever in the 10 years I've been playing there several times per
>>> week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the
>>> courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000' down to the coast
>>> and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day.
>>> If the wind blows (you've heard of the Santa Ana's, I'm sure) the
>>> entire region's temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and
>>> when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference?
>>> Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years
>>> ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the
>>> danger we're in?
>>>
>>> Nah. I'd stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
>>> aint mud.
>>>
>>> Nico
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>> *Steve @ Col-East
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
>>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>>>
>>> I believe in the hoax.
>>>
>>> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>>> environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture,
>>> manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all
>>> contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at
>>> the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing
>>> dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The
>>> fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the
>>> temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>>>
>>> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I
>>> guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
>>> sustainable.
>>>
>>> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
>>> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>>>
>>> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>>>
>>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>>> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>>>
>>> Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>>>
>>> Good Evening Nico,
>>>
>>> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>>>
>>> Happy Skies,
>>>
>>> Old Bob
>>> AKA
>>> Bob Siegfried
>>> Ancient Aviator
>>> Stearman N3977A
>>> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>>> Downers Grove, IL 60516
>>> 630 985-8503
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> See what's
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>>
>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
>>
>> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.co
>>
>> m/Navigator?Commander-List*
>>>
>>> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>> * *
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>>> **
>>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>> * *
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
Sure, I got it from an episode of South Park.
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> "Toyota Pious"
> I like that. May I use it?
> bilbo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:01 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
>
>
> Nico,
>
> I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
> a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
> Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of
> the stupidity of the politicians.
>
> I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
> US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
> when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
> elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
> as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
> zero-environmental-impact resident.
>
> I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
> past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
> science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
> is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
> planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
> other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
> be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
> teeming with new species.
>
> Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
> clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
> clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
> eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
>
> A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
> battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
> log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
> overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
> after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
> down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
> were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
> later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
>
> I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
> driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
> called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
> environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
> normal car.
>
> /ramble mode off/
>
> /John
>
>
> Bill Bow wrote:
>
>> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>>
>> bilbo
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I dont disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
>> the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
>> up where we picnic and dont waste water, prefer a cleaner running
>> engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly
>> believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when
>> we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the
>> environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that
>> we are influencing the globes temperature is just not rational. If
>> you claim to be nave and believe in Santa Claus, Ill join you if it
>> means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe
>> that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>>
>> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
>> eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere
>> reaching up to 20,000 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles
>> away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100 tsunamis and boats rocked
>> in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of
>> the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away
>> and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic
>> kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and
>> sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all
>> over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was
>> blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and
>> artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash
>> that fell back to the earth covered about one million square
>> kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and
>> increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>>
>> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
>> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the
>> temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some
>> tourists call a pristine environment.
>>
>> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>> see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched
>> into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the
>> nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events
>> spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown
>> amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans,
>> massive forest fires and the planet deals with it, as it has been
>> for millions of years, then its hard to swallow the propaganda of
>> global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting
>> with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more
>> blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
>>
>> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for
>> responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle,
>> my friend. You wouldnt part with five bucks if someone proposed this
>> as a business deal to you. Youd probably call the cops.
>>
>> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>> deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
>> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in
>> the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference
>> is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts.
>> Never, ever in the 10 years Ive been playing there several times per
>> week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the
>> courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000 down to the coast
>> and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day.
>> If the wind blows (youve heard of the Santa Anas, Im sure) the
>> entire regions temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and
>> when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference?
>> Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years
>> ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the
>> danger were in?
>>
>> Nah. Id stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This
>> aint mud.
>>
>> Nico
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Steve @ Col-East
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>>
>> I believe in the hoax.
>>
>> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>> environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture,
>> manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all
>> contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at
>> the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing
>> dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The
>> fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the
>> temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>>
>> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I
>> guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem
>> sustainable.
>>
>> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
>> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>>
>> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>>
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>>
>> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>>
>> Surely, you dont buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>>
>> Good Evening Nico,
>>
>> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>>
>> Happy Skies,
>>
>> Old Bob
>> AKA
>> Bob Siegfried
>> Ancient Aviator
>> Stearman N3977A
>> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>> Downers Grove, IL 60516
>> 630 985-8503
>>
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> See what's
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>>
>>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.co
> m/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
>> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution |
Yet! :-)
Dear Listers,
If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't
yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! Implemented for the first
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You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests
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Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such
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ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand
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If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
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These situations include if someone replies to one of the messages, or when
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COMMANDER560(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution |
Ye...
Matt, I've been trying to get myself, commander560(at)cs.com, Joe Shepherd off
the list, would you take me off, I sold my Commander 560F a year ago, great
list, good guys, just not in that loop anymore. Thank you, Joe Shepherd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
AMEN!!=C2- I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites tha
t measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply
no proof of "global warning".=C2- In fact, in a related piece , the recor
ded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!!=C2- That m
ay be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global cl
imate change??=C2-=C2-=C2- JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
-
=C2-
Nico,=C2-
=C2-
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a hu
ge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane a
nd a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity
of the politicians.=C2-
=C2-
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, tr
y to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see i
t, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so ma
ny elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying,
and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.=C2-
=C2-
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a str
etch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we ca
n do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million ye
ars after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that
we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.=C2-
=C2-
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean it
self. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unp
olluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologicall
y. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.=C2-
=C2-
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing bat
tles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the H
eadwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at t
he foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, t
hey clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuil
d San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can
see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green,
forested mountains.=C2-
=C2-
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driv
ing a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called t
he "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the
carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.=C2-
=C2-
/ramble mode off/=C2-
=C2-
/John=C2-
=C2-
Bill Bow wrote:=C2-
>=C2-
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. =C2-
>=C2-
> bilbo=C2-
>=C2-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=C2-
>=C2-
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commande
r-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css=C2-
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM=C2-
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com=C2-
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming=C2-
>=C2-
> Steve,=C2-
>=C2-
> I don=99t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators
of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
> up where we picnic and don=99t waste water, prefer a cleaner running
> engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believ
e that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are do
ne or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good
and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the glo
be=99s temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=C3
=AFve and believe in Santa Claus, I=99ll join you if it > means being
responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are
able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.=C2-
>=C2-
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption
, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,0
00=99 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 18
83 eruptions caused 100=99 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa
, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions cou
ld be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, near
ly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxi
c gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the s
tratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amoun
t of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > ki
lometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing t
he landmass of several islands in the area.=C2-
>=C2-
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, no
rmalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pri
stine environment.=C2-
>=C2-
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > se
e the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the
atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt.
St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of ton
s of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures
spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires =93 and th
e planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it
=99s hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean,
where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or
, the Kyoto treaty?=C2-
>=C2-
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > respo
nsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend
. You wouldn=99t part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a
business deal to you. You=99d probably call the cops.=C2-
>=C2-
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > d
eg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends
about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning.
Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 d
egrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 year
s I=99ve been playing there several times per > week, has the temperat
ure been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 m
iles west and 1,000=99 down to the coast > and the temperature would b
e vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you
=99ve heard of the Santa Ana=99s, I=99m sure) the > entire regio
n=99s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do the
y measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather
stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-
frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we=99re in?=C2-
>=C2-
> Nah. I=99d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. T
his > aint mud.=C2-
>=C2-
> Nico=C2-
>=C2-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=C2-
>=C2-
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commande
r-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East=C2-
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM=C2-
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com=C2-
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer=C2-
>=C2-
> I believe in the hoax.=C2-
>=C2-
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > en
vironment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, tran
sportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years o
f stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age.
The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people ado
pt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atm
osphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.=C2-
>=C2-
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustaina
ble.=C2-
>=C2-
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.=C2-
>=C2-
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....=C2-
>=C2-
> Steve=C2-
>=C2-
> ----- Original Message -----=C2-
>=C2-
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com =C2-
>=C2-
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com=C2-
> =C2-
>=C2-
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM=C2-
>=C2-
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer=C2-
>=C2-
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,=C2-
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:=C2-
>=C2-
> Surely, you don=99t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?=C2-
>=C2-
> Good Evening Nico,=C2-
>=C2-
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!=C2-
>=C2-
> Happy Skies,=C2-
>=C2-
> Old Bob=C2-
> AKA=C2-
> Bob Siegfried=C2-
> Ancient Aviator=C2-
> Stearman N3977A=C2-
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22=C2-
> Downers Grove, IL 60516=C2-
> 630 985-8503=C2-
>=C2-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=C2-
>=C2-
> See what's=C2-
>=C2-
> * *=C2-
>=C2-
> * *=C2-
>=C2-
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*=C2-
>=C2-
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*=C2-
>=C2-
> * *=C2-
>=C2-
> * *=C2-
> * *=C2-
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*=C2-
> * *=C2-
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*=C2-
> *http://forums.matronics.com*=C2-
> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*=C2-
> **=C2-
> **=C2-
> **=C2-
> **=C2-
> **=C2-
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*=C2-
> **=C2-
> *http://forums.matronics.com*=C2-
> * *=C2-
> *=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
> *=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________=C2-
>=C2-
=C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http
://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | environment global warming |
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared
into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com >
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
*href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.co
m/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com
">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
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===========
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===========
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size=2 width="100%" align=center>
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
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OLAOF00020000000970> !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | My conversation with Rush Limbaugh |
Folks, I had an interesting conversation with Rush last Monday.
Some of you might be interested in it. If you believe it's appropriate,
please pass this on. We have already cut our first check for MCLEF and hope
to do it again at the end of November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
If you Google "rush Limbaugh civil war" it comes up second or third and you
will be able to hook up to his site with the transcript.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist.
Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh |
G'day Nico,
We knew you existed all this time...you just need to get along to the Oklahoma
Flyin next year!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Rush Limbaugh and me |
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of
profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but
always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat
than a
technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit
together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about
Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general,
aircraft
systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who
had
an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and
sometimes
even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with
decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an
invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly
unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an
unspoken
rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed
unique, enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many
others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to
proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I
can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with
Rush
Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which
is
quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but
that
Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us
to
find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the
manner
of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested
in
it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have
already
cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of
November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist.
Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared
into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com >
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
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>
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m/Navigator?Commander-List*
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">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
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> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | My conversation with Rush Limbaugh |
Hi Russel,
Having come from the Southern Hemisphere myself, I figured that you would
know. :-)
Looking south, the sun has to shine in your back, otherwise things never
really look right.
Oklahoma or bust!
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh
G'day Nico,
We knew you existed all this time...you just need to get along to the
Oklahoma
Flyin next year!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JTAddington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Rush Limbaugh and me |
Nico, I personally agree with everything you have said. We are in world
war
three but it is a war like we have never had to fight before and people
just
don't understand it. We are like the British were in our revolutionary
war,
they were used to having people march out and stand face to face and
fight
and we are used to being able to see who we are fighting. In this war we
don't see who our enemy is until they have struck and it may be some one
we
thought was our friend and have been in this country for a long time. If
that is not bad enough like you said we have people that are trying to
take
over and destroy us from within, liberals.
Sorry but I get on my band box when these people start trying to take
away
my freedoms. I was in the Air Force and when you see that flag go up and
down on a military base and it does not make your spine tingle there is
something wrong. I love this country and don't want it destroyed.
Sorry if I seem to be rambling but I got to bed near midnight and woke
up at
three.
Jim Addington
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:03 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of
profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but
always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat
than a
technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit
together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about
Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general,
aircraft
systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who
had
an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and
sometimes
even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with
decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an
invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly
unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an
unspoken
rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed
unique, enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many
others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to
proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I
can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with
Rush
Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which
is
quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but
that
Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us
to
find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the
manner
of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested
in
it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have
already
cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of
November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist.
Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared
into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com >
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
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="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
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m/Navigator?Commander-List*
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">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
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> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
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| From: | "Steve" <steveg(at)nternet.com> |
| Subject: | Rush Limbaugh and me |
Nico,
Well said and appropriate for this Veterans Day. Your discussion with
Rush
is indeed insightful and informative for those who have not thought this
through. Apathy is the =93disease=94 that will get us in the end unless
we
fight it. Activism is the tool of the liberal minority and they have
proven
it works. Our conservative =93behinds=94 must get up and go to work
speaking,
writing, and participating in the fight to keep our freedoms intact.
Just
take a look at the freedoms of flight that are slowly being eroded by
our
F=92nAA and the big commercial airlines. They will not give up as long
as we
allow them to succeed!!! Whatever happened to =93The majority rules=94?
One
outspoken liberal can take away our freedoms one board at a time if we
the
conservative majority continue to do nothing and only wish them away. I
only hope that in my lifetime I won=92t be required to run my passengers
through a gauntlet of searches and documentation that are constantly
being
proposed as well as being required to pay a fee each time I leave the
ground.
Well, enough. I=92m going flying!
Regards,
Steve Gilson
_____
From: nico css [mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:03 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of
profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but
always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat
than a
technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit
together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about
Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general,
aircraft
systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who
had
an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and
sometimes
even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with
decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an
invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly
unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an
unspoken
rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed
unique, enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many
others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to
proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I
can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with
Rush
Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which
is
quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but
that
Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us
to
find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the
manner
of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested
in
it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have
already
cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of
November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist.
Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared
into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
October 26, 2007 - November 11, 2007
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-cp