Commander-Archive.digest.vol-cq
November 11, 2007 - November 19, 2007
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-cq
November 11, 2007 - November 19, 2007
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com >
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
*href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.co
m/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nci
d=A
OLAOF00020000000970> !
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://forums.matronics.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Victor C. Rupert" <V-Man@V-Man.net>
Subject: Re: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh
Date: Nov 11, 2007
Nico,
Way to go!!! I had the thrill of hearing you live that day and almost
stood up in the car on the way to the airport! I didn't piece together
that it was you until now.
Bravo Sir!
Victor
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: Commander-List: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh
Folks, I had an interesting conversation with Rush last Monday.
Some of you might be interested in it. If you believe it's
appropriate, please pass this on. We have already cut our first check
for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
If you Google "rush Limbaugh civil war" it comes up second or third
and you will be able to hook up to his site with the transcript.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Rush Limbaugh and me
Date: Nov 11, 2007
Nico,
I wish I was better with words, and that we could still enjoy a beer
together while disagreeing entirely. Before saying anything, I believe
your deep feelings for the country are entirely genuine, and your
motivations honorable. (Do you ever believe this of the other
'side'?)There is something of great value there. But the passionate
hatred of half of your countrymen is alarming. Do you guys honestly
believe all that crap about liberals being out to take down your
country? That they hate freedom? That they want the terrorists to win?
There's no shortage of you guys telling each other that. But have you
ever talked to a 'liberal' and aksed what it was they wanted? What they
dreamed of for their country? Have you ever researched what liberalism
even is? For that matter, have you (guys) ever checked to see that you
really are conservative? Something might be going wrong if the best and
brightest conservative thinkers are chugging up one track, while
self-professed 'conservatives' are speeding the train somewhere else
entirely. When George Will, Buckley and Buchanon are turning around to
see where the rest of the train has gone, there might be a problem with
modern conservatism. It's looking a lot more like fascism. How many
freedoms were lost under liberals? I am not going to live a life in fear
of terrorist bogeymen. I am not going to change radically my notions of
what passes for freedom. This idea that this is World War Three is
ridiculus. We withstood a civil war, two real world wars, and the Soviet
empire, without radically changing our society.
My wife and I built our house with a local carpenter, after I cleared
our land. He's a good guy and we liked him a lot, and the feeling was
mutual. We worked together through rain and snow and sub-zero
temperatures building our house. He would arrive at our site in a
cheerful mood. Each morning after listening to his favorite morning
broadcaster, he became angrier and angrier, cursing liberals and
everything they stood for. The hatred and vitriol coming from the radio
was alarming, and I wondered both how so many could believe what they
were hearing as fact; and why people wished to listen to something that
made them so angry day after day. While we are not liberals in the new
sense of the word, we disagreed with an awful lot of what we heard. And
of course if you disagree you are against freedom and for the
terrorists, and for those that wish to bring our country down. It was
very awkward.
Citizens must watch carefully when leaders set up bogeymen and perpetual
war, and act in the name of protecting freedom while proclaiming that
those that disagree are the enemy. I've met a lot of people too, who
profess deeply held religious beliefs of love and compassion, but act
essentially in their own self interest.
(P.S. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, and I was not raised a
Christian. I believe that much of what the radical left believes is as
goofy as the radical right. Good old fashioned conservatives and
liberals were excellent when kept in balance. But some folks nowadays
are taking the ball and running in completely wacky directions. That
there should be unlimited and unregulated immigration is just plain
stupid. That we should even be debating torture is apalling.)
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about
Commanders but always about the group's interests. It's more like a
fire-side chat than a technical list. And when people with common
interests and passions sit together and talk, many a profound thing is
exchanged. We talk about Commanders (first and foremost) but also about
aviation in general, aircraft systems, engines, navaids, others'
experiences, life loves, others who had an unequal number of take-offs
and landings, politics, morals, and sometimes even religion. Those who
are offended leave and they even leave with decorum. Those who have
remained with us over the years have forged an invisible (to some)
familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecessary to
define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of
respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It's indeed unique,
enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed
to proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had
with Rush Limbaugh last Monday. I didn't get to say everything I wanted,
which is quite understandable considering the time issues with that
medium, but that Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an
achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary, assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling
all of us to find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I
chose the manner of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you
might be interested in it. If you believe it's appropriate, please pass
this on. We have already cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it
again at the end of November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared into never land. I'll see if this one is posted.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites
that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!!
That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase
"Global climate change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme
is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2
vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator
of the stupidity of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been
ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we
shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch
me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should
be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don't disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
> up where we picnic and don't waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly >
believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when >
we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the >
environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that >
we are influencing the globe's temperature is just not rational. If >
you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus, I'll join you if it
> means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe
> that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up to 20,000' with the noise being heard up to 100 miles >
away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100' tsunamis and boats rocked >
in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of >
the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away >
and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic >
kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and >
sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all >
over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was >
blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and >
artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash >
that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some >
tourists call a pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if
I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the >
nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events >
spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown >
amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, >
massive forest fires - and the planet deals with it, as it has been >
for millions of years, then it's hard to swallow the propaganda of >
global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting >
with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more >
blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my friend. You wouldn't part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a business deal to you. You'd probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or
2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference >
is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. >
Never, ever in the 10 years I've been playing there several times per >
week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the >
courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000' down to the coast >
and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day. >
If the wind blows (you've heard of the Santa Ana's, I'm sure) the >
entire region's temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and >
when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? >
Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years >
ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the >
danger we're in?
>
> Nah. I'd stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This > aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve @ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting
the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all >
contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at >
the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing >
dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The >
fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the >
temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
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>
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chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Post Mortem - Matronics List Pummeled By Spam...
Dear Listers,
Over a 3-day period, Thursday 11/8 though Saturday 11/10, the Matronics Lists were
pummeled with over 450,000 spam emails causing posting delays and a few duplicate
messages. Yeah, I really said nearly half a million spams! The good
news is that I don't believe a single one of them actually made it to the Lists
thanks to the aggressive List filtering code and the Barracuda spam filter.
The bad news was that it caused quite a back log of email messages starting Friday
and continuing until late Saturday when I noticed that delivery seemed a bit
sluggish. By about 11pm on Saturday night, I had managed to get the backlog
cleared out of the spam filter by temporarily adjusting some of the filtering.
A check of the queues this morning, and everything looks like its working great
and there are no incoming filtering delays and spam levels appear to be back
to "normal".
There were a number of people asking what was going on, so I thought that I'd send
out a follow up post mortem on the event...
November is the annual List Fund Raiser. Your contribution directly enables me
to buy systems like the Barracuda spam filter that keep the List free of that
garbage. Please make a contribution to support your Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: environment global warming
Date: Nov 11, 2007
Oh for Pete's sake. You can argue the causes of 'global warming', and
whether we have any responsibility, but to argue it isn't happening? I
did a search for NASA global warming report, and the only place the
earth isn't warming is on Fox News. The NASA chief himself was quoted as
saying, "I have no doubt that ... a trend of global warming exists. I am
not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle
with." He went on to speculate whether or not we should do anything
about it. Griffin is of course a Bush appointee.
The chief NASA climatologist is sounding all the alarms he can about the
warming trend and the fact that the administration is doing all they can
to suppress the data, and restrict the interaction of government
scientists with the public.
Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world. For the
first time in history the Northwest Passage is open to navigation. 19 of
the twentiest warmest years on record have been since 1980.
Back to stacking wood......
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites
that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!!
That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase
"Global climate change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme
is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2
vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator
of the stupidity of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been
ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we
shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch
me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should
be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=99t disagree with the notion that we ought to be
conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I
accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and don=99t waste
water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt into
the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable person would
disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show care when we deal
with what we do to the > environment is a good and responsible thing to
do. But to assume that > we are influencing the globe=99s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=C3=AFve and
believe in Santa Claus, I=99ll join you if it > means being
responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can,
are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up to 20,000=99 with the noise being heard up to 100
miles > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100=99 tsunamis and
boats rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them.
The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more than
2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot
more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur
dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and
spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain.
The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million
square > kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and
> increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some >
tourists call a pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if
I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the >
nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events >
spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown >
amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, >
massive forest fires =93 and the planet deals with it, as it has
been > for millions of years, then it=99s hard to swallow the
propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us
into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you
seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto
treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my friend. You wouldn=99t part with five bucks if someone proposed
this > as a business deal to you. You=99d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or
2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference >
is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. >
Never, ever in the 10 years I=99ve been playing there several
times per > week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at
the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000=99 down
to the coast > and the temperature would be vastly different again. On
the same day. > If the wind blows (you=99ve heard of the Santa
Ana=99s, I=99m sure) the > entire region=99s
temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do they
measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites?
Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which
is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger
we=99re in?
>
> Nah. I=99d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see
mud. This > aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve @ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting
the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all >
contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at >
the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing >
dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The >
fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the >
temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Surely, you don=99t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
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>
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chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
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> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
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> *http://forums.matronics.com*
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>
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Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2007
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: environment global warming
Steve,
I'm not saying the globe isn't warming. I'm kinda glad, actually,
because it means we're not in an ice age. Did you know that Greenland
was named Greenland because when it was discovered, it was GREEN? As in,
no ice.
Climate ebbs & flows. Again, I try to leave as few footprints as
possible....but even the NASA chief climatologist isn't sold on the
notion that we need to jump on the "fix it!" bandwagon. Of course, solid
science rarely intrudes on the debate. Everyone is quick to point out,
"he's a BUSH APPOINTEE! He must be EVIL! Forget the 9 years of college &
multiple degrees!" So if he was a Gore appointee, he'd be screaming
bloody murder, based on the same report?
Science doesn't depend on "consensus" or "debate". Science is about
building a PROVABLE hypothesis. Nobody has done that yet. Why? Climate
modeling is not bias-proof science. Modeling the future is entirely
dependent on subjective experiences from today and yesterday.
As far as the media, they tend to focus ONLY on the negative, and that
bothers me. Yes, temperatures are warming......what about the GOOD news
that goes with that? Reforestation will happen more quickly. Areas
previously unsuitable for agriculture will be able to support farming.
Rainforests may actually expand. Check the hurricane reports for the
last 75 years? There are more storms, they apparently are more severe,
but it's all part of the normal cycle. And from '75 - 95, they were all
extremely tame.....perhaps there were no fossil fuels being burned for
those 2 decades: http://www.grantchronicles.com/astro129.htm
I'm not ripping your opinion. I'm just not picking sides until I see a
demonstrated provable hypothesis. And even if I'm on the wrong side, I
still think that all we can do is screw things up for us, and when we're
gone, the world will continue on its merry way, none the worse for the wear.
/J
Steve @ Col-East wrote:
> Oh for Pete's sake. You can argue the causes of 'global warming', and
> whether we have any responsibility, but to argue it isn't happening? I
> did a search for NASA global warming report, and the only place the
> earth isn't warming is on Fox News. The NASA chief himself was quoted
> as saying, "I have no doubt that ... a trend of global warming exists.
> I am not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must
> wrestle with." He went on to speculate whether or not we should do
> anything about it. Griffin is of course a Bush appointee.
>
> The chief NASA climatologist is sounding all the alarms he can about
> the warming trend and the fact that the administration is doing all
> they can to suppress the data, and restrict the interaction of
> government scientists with the public.
>
> Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world. For the
> first time in history the Northwest Passage is open to navigation. 19
> of the twentiest warmest years on record have been since 1980.
>
> Back to stacking wood......
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:51 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the
> satellites that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press
> release that the is simply no proof of "global warning". In fact,
> in a related piece , the recorded mid level temps have fallen .036
> deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why we hear less about
> "global warming" and more the phrase "Global_ climate change?? _ JB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> >
>
> Nico,
>
> I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset
> theme is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on
> JUST CO2 vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is
> one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians.
>
> I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in
> the US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick
> up trash when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt
> whales or elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as
> "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try
> to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
>
> I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the
> planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative)
> environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes
> clear pretty quickly is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to
> think that we can destroy the planet. The most we can do is make
> it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million years
> after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
> that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
>
> Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability
> to clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would
> be 100% clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the
> merest blink of an eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still
> be whales left then.
>
> A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been
> ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that
> we shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging
> argument is way overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz
> Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the
> ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San
> Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye
> can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see
> lush, green, forested mountains.
>
> I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't
> catch me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here,
> they should be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the
> savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius
> manufacture is 3x a normal car.
>
> /ramble mode off/
>
> /John
>
> Bill Bow wrote:
> >
> > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
> >
> > bilbo
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] *On Behalf Of
> *nico css
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> > *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > I dont disagree with the notion that we ought to be
> conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I
> accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and dont waste
> water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt
> into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable
> person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show
> care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good
> and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are
> influencing the globes temperature is just not rational. If > you
> claim to be nave and believe in Santa Claus, Ill join you if it
> > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to
> believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just
> not rational.
> >
> > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
> > eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
> reaching up to 20,000 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles
> > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100 tsunamis and boats
> rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them.
> The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more
> than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away.
> It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses,
> such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
> stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a
> five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon
> was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red
> sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash > that fell back
> to the earth covered about one million square > kilometers
> drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing
> the landmass of several islands in the area.
> >
> > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to
> normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean,
> normalized the > temperatures, normalized the weather, and today
> that area is what some > tourists call a pristine environment.
> >
> > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but
> if I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein
> launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on
> fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other
> natural events > spewing millions of tons of toxic material into
> the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic
> magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires and the planet
> deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then its
> hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but
> a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of
> money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the
> carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
> >
> > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist
> for > responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a
> swindle, > my friend. You wouldnt part with five bucks if someone
> proposed this > as a business deal to you. Youd probably call the
> cops.
> >
> > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by
> 1 or 2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay
> tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to
> play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the
> temperature difference > is more than 18 degrees between the house
> and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 years Ive been
> playing there several times per > week, has the temperature been
> the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20
> miles west and 1,000 down to the coast > and the temperature
> would be vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind
> blows (youve heard of the Santa Anas, Im sure) the > entire
> regions temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when
> do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? >
> Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000
> years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
> determine the > danger were in?
> >
> > Nah. Id stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
> This > aint mud.
> >
> > Nico
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] *On Behalf Of
> > *Steve @ Col-East
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> > *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
> >
> > I believe in the hoax.
> >
> > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be
> affecting the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd.
> Agriculture, > manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling,
> recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels,
> begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate
> of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people
> adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these
> gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot
> seriously be in dispute.
> >
> > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise.
> I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this
> doesn't seem > sustainable.
> >
> > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big
> blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
> >
> > Green of Peak..... I like that.....
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
> >
> >
> > *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> > >
> >
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
> >
> > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> > nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
> > writes:
> >
> > Surely, you dont buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
> >
> > Good Evening Nico,
> >
> > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
> >
> > Happy Skies,
> >
> > Old Bob
> > AKA
> > Bob Siegfried
> > Ancient Aviator
> > Stearman N3977A
> > Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> > Downers Grove, IL 60516
> > 630 985-8503
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > See what's
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * *
> >
> >
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> >
> > *href="http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com*
> <http://forums.matronics.com*/>
> >
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> >
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> > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> > *http://forums.matronics.com* From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Rush Limbaugh and me
Date: Nov 11, 2007
HI Steve,
I beg the indulgence of the listers.
You are ok with words, don=92t worry about that. We are not in
disagreement on
many of the issues and we could quite peacefully have a beer. You
didn=92t
resort to insults in your response, which I appreciate, but, then again,
you
did say you are not a liberal. Your decorum is appreciated. Thank you
for
that.
Let me preface my response by saying, unchecked power in either
direction is
undesirable. But conservatism is not balanced by liberalism, but by
accountability; I assume as liberalism would be. The task of
accountability
rests with the media, but the media, the watchdogs of society, has
become
the attack dogs and safe-deposit boxes for the liberals, so no real
accountability has been practiced for more than 50 years on either
ideology.
Something you said piqued my interest, and that is =93=85we are not
liberals in
the new sense of the word=85=94 The word =93liberal=94 in the old sense,
means, in
short, one who is a =91free thinker=92. I=92d like to think about myself
as one
with a free will that think freely inside and outside the box. So, in
the
old sense of the word, I guess I would be a liberal. In the new sense,
however, there is no chance that I would be considered a liberal. It is
because the meaning of the word has been stripped from the language and
replaced with another meaning that is meant to soothe real free thinkers
into believing that the same principles apply as before, which is not
the
case. Instead, the real, covert meaning is only revealed by intense
scrutiny
and hard questions, a few of which I ask below.
Similar concepts have been taken away from the language by overwhelming
media coverage, to mean foreign things, such as the word =91gay=92. A
couple of
decades ago it meant to be happy; today it means to be a homosexual. I
realize and accept that there are people who have different sexual
orientations than I do and I don=92t care one way or the other, just as
much
as I expect others not to care one way or the other that I am straight,
which is another word that has been violently stripped of its meaning. I
don=92t want to get involved into a gay-straight debate but just to
illustrate
the usurpation of benign words making them malignant.
Anyone who, today, claims to be gay would imply homosexuality and
whether
one intends to mean happiness would be meaningless. It would be the
current
understanding of the word that applies. Equally foolish would be to
refer to
oneself as a liberal in the old sense, while the label of contemporary
liberalism would apply. So, it is to the liberal in the modern sense
that I
refer when I speak about liberals.
You asked many good questions. I don=92t want to argue every one of them
at
this point, but I=92d like to ponder on them for a while to be sure that
I do
justice to your questions and respond at another time. In the mean time,
however, let me ask, with the motive of illustrating also my position,
some
questions with which I struggle.
Why would a modern liberal presidential candidate make utterances that
are
indistinguishable from that of Karl Marx and the media do not report
them as
such?
Why would liberal politicians maintain that taxes have to be increased
to
raise more money for the treasury, while exactly the opposite proved to
raise more money?
Why would news about successes in the war in Iraq appear deep inside the
print media instead of on the front pages where they belong?
Why would 41 senators sign a petition, based on inaccurate information,
to
sensor a private citizen=92s right to free speech?
Why would a US president allow secret missile technology to be sold to
one
of the country=92s archenemies?
Why would liberals advocate policies that would remove from parents the
choice in the education of their children?
Why would a sitting president be called a =93liar=94 and having deceived
the
people into war after congress voted twice to give him that authority
and
the UN Security Council voted unanimously for the same thing, while when
pres. Clinton engaged Bosnia in a war, the majority leader of the then
republican-controlled senate said that he is not prepared to criticize a
sitting president in a time of war? (I believe it was Trent Lott, I
cannot
remember but I can look it up for you).
Why would presenting a valid ID to vote be so fiercely opposed by
liberals
when the ballot box is the very artery of our existence depending on its
purity to express the wishes of the citizens of this country?
Why would liberals be so eager to confer amnesty upon millions of people
with marginal economic ability unless they are expected to automatically
become candidates supporting liberal policies? You already expressed
opposition to this, but that only clarifies your position, not that of
the
liberals. You ought to join me in this fight.
Why would liberals be so eager to allow people who are illegally in the
country to vote for representatives unless it is to acquire those votes
for
their candidates?
Why are liberals eager to pacify Muslims but are quick and readily
prepared
to vilify Christians?
Steve, I have so many other questions that impugn the patriotism of
modern-day liberals, to which one only gets diversionary insults when
challenged, that one cannot but believe that they are not in politics
for
the sake of the country, which you and I love, but for the sake of
obtaining
and holding on to absolute power, regardless of the means and the lives
it
cost.
Once the ballot box and the courts have been placed beyond the reach of
the
legal voting public by allowing unidentified people to vote and adding
convicts and illegal immigrants to the voter rolls, do you think that
the
silent majority would accept this foreign culture and just go on? That
was
my question. I believe not. That is why I believe that Rush Limbaugh=92s
crusade of more than 20 years, has retained the option of the ballot box
for
our children and us as an instrument of peaceful change, without having
to
rise up against the authorities to take back that which was fraudulently
taken from us. Rush does not show up for work to make people angry
(that is
entirely your carpenter=92s own demeanor at work), but to confirm what
people
already knew and believed, longing to hear confirmation of their beliefs
in
the public arena of ideas. And, come to think of it, Steve, Rush only
says
what he sees and hears and the liberals are armed to take him down. Why?
Does the mirror appear to reflect to the liberals an image that they
don=92t
want you and I to know about? It certainly appears to be the case.
I stand by what I said, =93Rush has single-handedly prevented this
country=92s
second civil war.=94 Many followed in his footsteps, or in his trenches,
so to
speak, and made a difference. For that we ought to be very grateful.
Respectfully,
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Nico,
I wish I was better with words, and that we could still enjoy a beer
together while disagreeing entirely. Before saying anything, I believe
your
deep feelings for the country are entirely genuine, and your motivations
honorable. (Do you ever believe this of the other 'side'?)There is
something
of great value there. But the passionate hatred of half of your
countrymen
is alarming. Do you guys honestly believe all that crap about liberals
being
out to take down your country? That they hate freedom? That they want
the
terrorists to win? There's no shortage of you guys telling each other
that.
But have you ever talked to a 'liberal' and aksed what it was they
wanted?
What they dreamed of for their country? Have you ever researched what
liberalism even is? For that matter, have you (guys) ever checked to see
that you really are conservative? Something might be going wrong if the
best
and brightest conservative thinkers are chugging up one track, while
self-professed 'conservatives' are speeding the train somewhere else
entirely. When George Will, Buckley and Buchanon are turning around to
see
where the rest of the train has gone, there might be a problem with
modern
conservatism. It's looking a lot more like fascism. How many freedoms
were
lost under liberals? I am not going to live a life in fear of terrorist
bogeymen. I am not going to change radically my notions of what passes
for
freedom. This idea that this is World War Three is ridiculus. We
withstood a
civil war, two real world wars, and the Soviet empire, without radically
changing our society.
My wife and I built our house with a local carpenter, after I cleared
our
land. He's a good guy and we liked him a lot, and the feeling was
mutual. We
worked together through rain and snow and sub-zero temperatures building
our
house. He would arrive at our site in a cheerful mood. Each morning
after
listening to his favorite morning broadcaster, he became angrier and
angrier, cursing liberals and everything they stood for. The hatred and
vitriol coming from the radio was alarming, and I wondered both how so
many
could believe what they were hearing as fact; and why people wished to
listen to something that made them so angry day after day. While we are
not
liberals in the new sense of the word, we disagreed with an awful lot of
what we heard. And of course if you disagree you are against freedom and
for
the terrorists, and for those that wish to bring our country down. It
was
very awkward.
Citizens must watch carefully when leaders set up bogeymen and perpetual
war, and act in the name of protecting freedom while proclaiming that
those
that disagree are the enemy. I've met a lot of people too, who profess
deeply held religious beliefs of love and compassion, but act
essentially in
their own self interest.
(P.S. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, and I was not raised a
Christian. I believe that much of what the radical left believes is as
goofy
as the radical right. Good old fashioned conservatives and liberals were
excellent when kept in balance. But some folks nowadays are taking the
ball
and running in completely wacky directions. That there should be
unlimited
and unregulated immigration is just plain stupid. That we should even be
debating torture is apalling.)
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of
profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but
always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat
than a
technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit
together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about
Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general,
aircraft
systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who
had
an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and
sometimes
even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with
decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an
invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly
unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an
unspoken
rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed
unique, enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many
others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to
proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I
can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with
Rush
Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which
is
quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but
that
Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us
to
find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the
manner
of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested
in
it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have
already
cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of
November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist.
Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared
into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com >
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
*href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.co
m/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nci
d=A
OLAOF00020000000970> !
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.
com
/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: environment global warming
Date: Nov 11, 2007
=93Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world=94
As the one who picks the =93fly specks (fecal matter) out of the
pepper=94, I=92d
like to point out that the glaciers are actually in the valley between
the
mountains and not on the mountains themselves.
Lighten up gents, the Asians are not going to do anything to help this
and
they are much bigger and polutier(my word).
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Oh for Pete's sake. You can argue the causes of 'global warming', and
whether we have any responsibility, but to argue it isn't happening? I
did a
search for NASA global warming report, and the only place the earth
isn't
warming is on Fox News. The NASA chief himself was quoted as saying, "I
have
no doubt that ... a trend of global warming exists. I am not sure that
it is
fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle with." He went on to
speculate whether or not we should do anything about it. Griffin is of
course a Bush appointee.
The chief NASA climatologist is sounding all the alarms he can about the
warming trend and the fact that the administration is doing all they can
to
suppress the data, and restrict the interaction of government scientists
with the public.
Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world. For the
first
time in history the Northwest Passage is open to navigation. 19 of the
twentiest warmest years on record have been since 1980.
Back to stacking wood......
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com >
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
*href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.co
m/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com From: "Deneal Schilmeister" <deneals(at)deneals.com>
Subject: environment global warming
Date: Nov 11, 2007
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:01 PM
Steve,
I'm not saying the globe isn't warming. I'm kinda glad, actually,
because it means we're not in an ice age. Did you know that Greenland
was named Greenland because when it was discovered, it was GREEN? As in,
no ice.
NOT EXACTLY, John:
The real story behind the name is given in Erik the Red's Saga, based
on
oral tradition and written down in the early thirteenth century in
Iceland.
After the Icelandic landn=E1m was over, Erik the Red and his father
Thorvald
were forced to leave Norway because one or both of them was involved in
killings (details are not given). After Thorvald died, Erik was involved
in
yet more killings, for which his punishment was three years'
vacation--er, I
mean banishment from Iceland. (And you thought O. J. got off easy.)
He used the time to explore the rumored lands to the west. When his term
of
banishment expired, he returned to Icleand to invite his neighbors and
friends to settle the new country with him. He purposely chose the
pleasant
name Gr=E6nland ("green land") to attract settlers, but the choice
wasn't
exactly misleading. Some parts of Greenland, especially the parts the
Norse
settled, really are green, as these pictures from the tourist board
attest
(www.greenland-guide.dk/outdoor_life_photo.htm). He may have been a
killer,
but at least he wasn't a real-estate scam-artist. He didn't have that
much
to gain by lying anyway, since he didn't charge anyone for the land. As
in
Iceland a century before, the land was free for the taking. Natives had
lived in the area in the past, but at the time of Erik's voyage, only
the
northern part of Greenland was occupied by the Inuit (Eskimos).
The unoccupied land in southern Greenland really was of much higher
quality
than anything that remained unclaimed in Iceland. The greenery that most
interested the settlers was the pasturage, which was good enough to
support
their sheep, goats, horses, swine, and cattle. The Norsemen lived on the
milk and meat from their livestock, supplemented with their catch of
caribou, small game, fish, and sea mammals. No doubt they also partook
of
sea-bird eggs and berries. They were able to grow some grain (probably
barley), but they must have had to import some as well. They also
imported
luxury goods, such as wine and silk. They could afford the imports
because
they sold wool, hides, and walrus and narwhal tusks. The last two items
especially were in high demand in Europe. The trade continued for
hundreds
of years despite the fact that the voyage was always a dangerous one.
The Norse settlements in Greenland died out eventually, but they thrived
for
at least three centuries and survived almost five. Five hundred years is
nothing to sneeze at when you consider that Jamestown was settled less
than
400 years ago. The exact reason behind the failure is still an open
question, but worsening climatic conditions, with a very cold period in
the
early- to mid-fifteenth century, surely contributed to it. A PBS
documentary
series, Secrets of the Dead, did an informative episode about the
disappearance of the Greenland colony
(www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/html/e2-menu.html).
___________________________
Deneal Schilmeister
St. Louis - Cincinnati
http://deneals.com Date: Nov 11, 2007
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: environment global warming
Deaneal,
Thanks for the clarification, and I stand corrected....I should know
better than to jump into this with limited knowledge of some subjects :-).
/J
Deneal Schilmeister wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:01 PM
>
>
>
>
> Steve,
>
>
>
> I'm not saying the globe isn't warming. I'm kinda glad, actually,
>
> because it means we're not in an ice age. Did you know that Greenland
>
> was named Greenland because when it was discovered, it was GREEN? As in,
>
> no ice.
>
>
>
> NOT EXACTLY, John:
>
>
>
> The real story behind the name is given in Erik the Red's Saga, based
> on oral tradition and written down in the early thirteenth century in
> Iceland. After the Icelandic landnm was over, Erik the Red and his
> father Thorvald were forced to leave Norway because one or both of
> them was involved in killings (details are not given). After Thorvald
> died, Erik was involved in yet more killings, for which his punishment
> was three years' vacation--er, I mean banishment from Iceland. (And
> you thought O. J. got off easy.)
>
>
>
> He used the time to explore the rumored lands to the west. When his
> term of banishment expired, he returned to Icleand to invite his
> neighbors and friends to settle the new country with him. He purposely
> chose the pleasant name Grnland ("green land") to attract settlers,
> but the choice wasn't exactly misleading. Some parts of Greenland,
> especially the parts the Norse settled, really are green, as these
> pictures from the tourist board attest
> (www.greenland-guide.dk/outdoor_life_photo.htm). He may have been a
> killer, but at least he wasn't a real-estate scam-artist. He didn't
> have that much to gain by lying anyway, since he didn't charge anyone
> for the land. As in Iceland a century before, the land was free for
> the taking. Natives had lived in the area in the past, but at the time
> of Erik's voyage, only the northern part of Greenland was occupied by
> the Inuit (Eskimos).
>
>
>
> The unoccupied land in southern Greenland really was of much higher
> quality than anything that remained unclaimed in Iceland. The greenery
> that most interested the settlers was the pasturage, which was good
> enough to support their sheep, goats, horses, swine, and cattle. The
> Norsemen lived on the milk and meat from their livestock, supplemented
> with their catch of caribou, small game, fish, and sea mammals. No
> doubt they also partook of sea-bird eggs and berries. They were able
> to grow some grain (probably barley), but they must have had to import
> some as well. They also imported luxury goods, such as wine and silk.
> They could afford the imports because they sold wool, hides, and
> walrus and narwhal tusks. The last two items especially were in high
> demand in Europe. The trade continued for hundreds of years despite
> the fact that the voyage was always a dangerous one.
>
>
>
> The Norse settlements in Greenland died out eventually, but they
> thrived for at least three centuries and survived almost five. Five
> hundred years is nothing to sneeze at when you consider that Jamestown
> was settled less than 400 years ago. The exact reason behind the
> failure is still an open question, but worsening climatic conditions,
> with a very cold period in the early- to mid-fifteenth century, surely
> contributed to it. A PBS documentary series, Secrets of the Dead, did
> an informative episode about the disappearance of the Greenland colony
> (www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/html/e2-menu.html
> <http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/html/e2-menu.html>).
>
>
>
> ___________________________
>
> Deneal Schilmeister
>
> St. Louis - Cincinnati
>
> http://deneals.com Subject: Re: Rush Limbaugh and me
Date: Nov 12, 2007
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
AMEN,AMEN,AMEN,AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jb
-----Original Message-----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 4:29 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
HI Steve,
=C2-
I beg the indulgence of the listers.
=C2-
You are ok with words, don=99t worry about that. We are not in disagre
ement on many of the issues and we could quite peacefully have a beer. You d
idn=99t resort to insults in your response, which I appreciate, but, t
hen again, you did say you are not a liberal. Your decorum is appreciated. T
hank you for that.
=C2-
Let me preface my response by saying, unchecked power in either direction is
undesirable. But conservatism is not balanced by liberalism, but by account
ability; I assume as liberalism would be. The task of accountability rests w
ith the media, but the media, the watchdogs of society, has become the attac
k dogs and safe-deposit boxes for the liberals, so no real accountability ha
s been practiced for more than 50 years on either ideology.
=C2-
Something you said piqued my interest, and that is =9Cwe are
not liberals in the new sense of the word=9D The word
=9Cliberal=9D in the old sense, means, in short, one who is a
=98free thinker=99. I=99d like to think about myself as one with
a free will that think freely inside and outside the box. So, in the old se
nse of the word, I guess I would be a liberal. In the new sense, however, th
ere is no chance that I would be considered a liberal. It is because the mea
ning of the word has been stripped from the language and replaced with anoth
er meaning that is meant to soothe real free thinkers into believing that th
e same principles apply as before, which is not the case. Instead, the real,
covert meaning is only revealed by intense scrutiny and hard questions, a f
ew of which I ask below.
=C2-
Similar concepts have been taken away from the language by overwhelming medi
a coverage, to mean foreign things, such as the word =98gay=99.
A couple of decades ago it meant to be happy; today it means to be a homosex
ual. I realize and accept that there are people who have different sexual or
ientations than I do and I don=99t care one way or the other, just as
much as I expect others not to care one way or the other that I am straight,
which is another word that has been violently stripped of its meaning. I do
n=99t want to get involved into a gay-straight debate but just to illu
strate the usurpation of benign words making them malignant.
=C2-
Anyone who, today, claims to be gay would imply homosexuality and whether on
e intends to mean happiness would be meaningless. It would be the current un
derstanding of the word that applies. Equally foolish would be to refer to o
neself as a liberal in the old sense, while the label of contemporary libera
lism would apply. So, it is to the liberal in the modern sense that I refer
when I speak about liberals.
=C2-
You asked many good questions. I don=99t want to argue every one of th
em at this point, but I=99d like to ponder on them for a while to be s
ure that I do justice to your questions and respond at another time. In the
mean time, however, let me ask, with the motive of illustrating also my posi
tion, some questions with which I struggle.
=C2-
Why would a modern liberal presidential candidate make utterances that are i
ndistinguishable from that of Karl Marx and the media do not report them as
such?
Why would liberal politicians maintain that taxes have to be increased to ra
ise more money for the treasury, while exactly the opposite proved to raise
more money?
Why would news about successes in the war in Iraq appear deep inside the pri
nt media instead of on the front pages where they belong?
Why would 41 senators sign a petition, based on inaccurate information, to s
ensor a private citizen=99s right to free speech?
Why would a US president allow secret missile technology to be sold to one o
f the country=99s archenemies?
Why would liberals advocate policies that would remove from parents the choi
ce in the education of their children?
Why would a sitting president be called a =9Cliar=9D and having
deceived the people into war after congress voted twice to give him that aut
hority and the UN Security Council voted unanimously for the same thing, whi
le when pres. Clinton engaged Bosnia in a war, the majority leader of the th
en republican-controlled senate said that he is not prepared to criticize a
sitting president in a time of war? (I believe it was Trent Lott, I cannot r
emember but I can look it up for you).
Why would presenting a valid ID to vote be so fiercely opposed by liberals w
hen the ballot box is the very artery of our existence depending on its puri
ty to express the wishes of the citizens of this country?
Why would liberals be so eager to confer amnesty upon millions of people wit
h marginal economic ability unless they are expected to automatically become
candidates supporting liberal policies? You already expressed opposition to
this, but that only clarifies your position, not that of the liberals. You
ought to join me in this fight.
Why would liberals be so eager to allow people who are illegally in the coun
try to vote for representatives unless it is to acquire those votes for thei
r candidates?
Why are liberals eager to pacify Muslims but are quick and readily prepared
to vilify Christians?
=C2-
Steve, I have so many other questions that impugn the patriotism of modern-d
ay liberals, to which one only gets diversionary insults when challenged, th
at one cannot but believe that they are not in politics for the sake of the
country, which you and I love, but for the sake of obtaining and holding on
to absolute power, regardless of the means and the lives it cost.
=C2-
Once the ballot box and the courts have been placed beyond the reach of the
legal voting public by allowing unidentified people to vote and adding convi
cts and illegal immigrants to the voter rolls, do you think that the silent
majority would accept this foreign culture and just go on? That was my quest
ion. I believe not. That is why I believe that Rush Limbaugh=99s crusa
de of more than 20 years, has retained the option of the ballot box for our
children and us as an instrument of peaceful change, without having to rise
up against the authorities to take back that which was fraudulently taken fr
om us. =C2-Rush does not show up for work to make people angry (that is en
tirely your carpenter=99s own demeanor at work), but to confirm what p
eople already knew and believed, longing to hear confirmation of their belie
fs in the public arena of ideas. And, come to think of it, Steve, Rush only
says what he sees and hears and the liberals are armed to take him down. Why
? Does the mirror appear to reflect to the liberals an image that they don
=99t want you and I to know about? It certainly appears to be the case
.
=C2-
I stand by what I said, =9CRush has single-handedly prevented this cou
ntry=99s second civil war.=9D Many followed in his footsteps, or
in his trenches, so to speak, and made a difference. For that we ought to b
e very grateful.
=C2-
Respectfully,
=C2-
Nico
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @ Col-East
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
=C2-
Nico,
=C2-
I wish I was better with words, and that we could still enjoy a beer togethe
r while disagreeing entirely. Before saying anything, I believe your deep fe
elings for the country are entirely genuine, and your motivations honorable.
(Do you ever believe this of the other 'side'?)There is something of great
value there. But the passionate hatred of half of your countrymen is alarmin
g. Do you guys honestly believe all that crap about liberals being out to ta
ke down your country? That they hate freedom? That they want the terrorists
to win? There's no shortage of you guys telling each other that. But have yo
u ever talked to a 'liberal' and aksed what it was they wanted? What they dr
eamed of for their country? Have you ever researched what liberalism even is
? For that matter, have you=C2-(guys) ever checked to see that you really
are conservative? Something might be going wrong if the best and brightest c
onservative thinkers=C2-are chugging up one track, while self-professed 'c
onservatives' are speeding the train somewhere else entirely. When George Wi
ll, Buckley and Buchanon are turning around to see where the rest of the tra
in has gone, there might be a problem with modern conservatism. It's looking
a lot more like fascism. How many freedoms were lost under liberals? I am n
ot going to live a life in fear of terrorist bogeymen. I am not going to cha
nge radically my notions of what passes for freedom. This idea that this is
World War Three is ridiculus. We withstood a civil war, two real world wars,
and the Soviet empire, without radically changing our society.
=C2-
My wife and I built our house with a local carpenter, after I cleared our la
nd. He's a good guy and we liked him a lot, and the feeling was mutual. We w
orked together through rain and snow and sub-zero temperatures building our
house. He would arrive at our site in a cheerful mood. Each morning after li
stening to his favorite morning broadcaster, he became angrier and angrier,
cursing liberals and everything they stood for. The hatred and vitriol comin
g from the radio was alarming, and I wondered both how so many could believe
what they were hearing as fact; and why people wished to listen to somethin
g that made them so angry day after day. While we are not liberals in the ne
w sense of the word, we disagreed with an awful lot of what we heard. And of
course if you disagree you are against freedom and for the terrorists, and
for those that wish to bring our country down. It was very awkward.
=C2-
Citizens must=C2-watch carefully when leaders set up bogeymen and perpetua
l war, and act in the name of protecting freedom while proclaiming that thos
e that disagree are the enemy. I've met a lot of people too,=C2-who profes
s deeply held religious beliefs of love and compassion, but act essentially
in their own self interest.
=C2-
(P.S. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, and I was not raised a Chri
stian. I believe that much of what the radical left believes is as goofy as
the radical right. Good old fashioned conservatives and liberals were excell
ent when kept in balance. But some folks nowadays are taking the ball and ru
nning in completely wacky directions. That there should be unlimited and unr
egulated immigration is just plain stupid. That we should even be debating t
orture is apalling.)
=C2-
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
=C2-
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost always of
profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but alw
ays about the group=99s interests. It=99s more like a fire-side
chat than a technical list. And when people with common interests and passio
ns sit together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about
Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general, aircraft
systems, engines, navaids, others=99 experiences, life loves, others
who had an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and s
ometimes even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave wit
h decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an inv
isible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecess
ary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of
respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=99s indeed uniq
ue, enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so many ot
hers, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to proclai
m that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The best I can con
vey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with Rush Limbaugh
last Monday. I didn=99t get to say everything I wanted, which is quite
understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but that Rush
gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us to fi
nd some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the manner of
my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested in it.
If you believe it=99s appropriate, please pass this on. We have alrea
dy cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of Novem
ber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
=C2-
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist. We
ll, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
=C2-
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
=C2-
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just disappeared i
nto never land. I=99ll see if this one is posted.
=C2-
Nico
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
=C2-
AMEN!!=C2- I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites tha
t measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply
no proof of "global warning".=C2- In fact, in a related piece , the recor
ded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!!=C2- That m
ay be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global cl
imate change??=C2-=C2-=C2- JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
-
=C2-
Nico,=C2-
=C2-
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a hu
ge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane a
nd a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity
of the politicians.=C2-
=C2-
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, tr
y to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see i
t, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so ma
ny elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying,
and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.=C2-
=C2-
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a str
etch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we ca
n do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million ye
ars after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that
we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.=C2-
=C2-
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean it
self. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unp
olluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologicall
y. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.=C2-
=C2-
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing bat
tles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the H
eadwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at t
he foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, t
hey clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuil
d San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can
see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green,
forested mountains.=C2-
=C2-
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driv
ing a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called t
he "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the
carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.=C2-
=C2-
/ramble mode off/=C2-
=C2-
/John=C2-
=C2-
Bill Bow wrote:=C2-
>=C2-
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. =C2-
>=C2-
> bilbo=C2-
>=C2-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=C2-
>=C2-
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commande
r-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css=C2-
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM=C2-
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com=C2-
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming=C2-
>=C2-
> Steve,=C2-
>=C2-
> I don=99t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators
of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
> up where we picnic and don=99t waste water, prefer a cleaner running
> engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believ
e that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are do
ne or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good
and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the glo
be=99s temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=C3
=AFve and believe in Santa Claus, I=99ll join you if it > means being
responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are
able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.=C2-
>=C2-
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption
, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,0
00=99 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 18
83 eruptions caused 100=99 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa
, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions cou
ld be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, near
ly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxi
c gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the s
tratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amoun
t of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > ki
lometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing t
he landmass of several islands in the area.=C2-
>=C2-
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, no
rmalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pri
stine environment.=C2-
>=C2-
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > se
e the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the
atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt.
St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of ton
s of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures
spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires =93 and th
e planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it
=99s hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean,
where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or
, the Kyoto treaty?=C2-
>=C2-
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > respo
nsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend
. You wouldn=99t part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a
business deal to you. You=99d probably call the cops.=C2-
>=C2-
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > d
eg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends
about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning.
Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 d
egrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 year
s I=99ve been playing there several times per > week, has the temperat
ure been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 m
iles west and 1,000=99 down to the coast > and the temperature would b
e vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you
=99ve heard of the Santa Ana=99s, I=99m sure) the > entire regio
n=99s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do the
y measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather
stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-
frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we=99re in?=C2-
>=C2-
> Nah. I=99d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. T
his > aint mud.=C2-
>=C2-
> Nico=C2-
>=C2-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=C2-
>=C2-
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commande
r-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East=C2-
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM=C2-
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com=C2-
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer=C2-
>=C2-
> I believe in the hoax.=C2-
>=C2-
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > en
vironment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, tran
sportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years o
f stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age.
The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people ado
pt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atm
osphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.=C2-
>=C2-
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustaina
ble.=C2-
>=C2-
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.=C2-
>=C2-
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....=C2-
>=C2-
> Steve=C2-
>=C2-
> ----- Original Message -----=C2-
>=C2-
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com =C2-
>=C2-
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com=C2-
> =C2-
>=C2-
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM=C2-
>=C2-
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer=C2-
>=C2-
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,=C2-
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:=C2-
>=C2-
> Surely, you don=99t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?=C2-
>=C2-
> Good Evening Nico,=C2-
>=C2-
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!=C2-
>=C2-
> Happy Skies,=C2-
>=C2-
> Old Bob=C2-
> AKA=C2-
> Bob Siegfried=C2-
> Ancient Aviator=C2-
> Stearman N3977A=C2-
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22=C2-
> Downers Grove, IL 60516=C2-
> 630 985-8503=C2-
>=C2-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*=C2-
>=C2-
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nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=C2-;
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arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=C2-;
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Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
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Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http
://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2007
From: Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Subject: Re: Rush Limbaugh and me
All of this sounds awfully fanatical to me. And it's downright scary
to even think of voicing any opposing opinion.......Lest One be
construed as someone trying to destroy One's country....
In the words of Winston Churchill....."A fanatic is someone that
redoubles their effort once they've lost sight of their goals."
Airplane talk is so much more interesting.......
Cate
N4278S 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Group Hug?
Date: Nov 12, 2007
Some good ideas were exchanged about subjects people feel strongly
about, and nobody got hurt. I want to reread some of the posts. I
understand a lot of where the sentiments come from. Maybe I contributed
some too.
I'll stop if you guys will! (Until the next time?)
Peace,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Group Hug?
Date: Nov 12, 2007
Planes and Commanders rule!
You got it. There was never a battle, just an exchange of ideas.
Thanks, Steve.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve at
Col-East
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:13 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Group Hug?
Some good ideas were exchanged about subjects people feel strongly about,
and nobody got hurt. I want to reread some of the posts. I understand a lot
of where the sentiments come from. Maybe I contributed some too.
I'll stop if you guys will! (Until the next time?)
Peace,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: environment global warming
From: "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2007
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
> environment in a dramatic fashion very odd.
I do not think you are seeing hostility towards the "notion" that we are affecting
the environment.
What you see hostility towards are the egg sucking liberals who are attempting
to use this as a wedge issue and blaming George Bush for everything that is wrong
with the environment. Especially Al Gore whos home uses more BTUs per year
than some small cities.
You are seeing hostility towards the hypoctisy of the far left.
Clearly the environment is changing and clearly humans habits are impacting the
environment.
The question is as John alluded to are we impacting it at a statistically significant
rate, ie if all humans were gone tomorrow what and how quickly would things
change.
I doubt Bush is hiding a smoking gun of info that says we are causing the end of
the world. That is just more liberal BS and sourgrapes from an egghead who had
his grant cancelled.
The truth about scientific data to date is the data is conflicting and in disagreement,
we really do not know how to interpret the data, The contribution of
mankind to the trends is miniscule compared to natural forces so determining its
true impact is beyond the capability of our analytic capabilities.
The entire northern North American continent was once under ice and it is now gone.
The Southern half was under an ocean. All this changed long before the internal
combustion revolution and pampers. Now how can Al Gore possibly blame that
on us or George Bush?
In any event as you noted we can destroy our economy and way of life by going overboard
on protecting the environment and it matters naught because the billions
in 3rd world countries are going to consume the earth within the next hundred
years. But I suppose that is Bushs fault also. Maybe Barack or Hilary will
save us, especially if they appoint Pelosi and Boxer to important environmental
positions.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145355#145355
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 2007
Subject: Re: Group Hug?
Very Well Done Gentlemen!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 11/12/2007 7:25:14 A.M. Central Standard Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Planes and Commanders rule!
You got it. There was never a battle, just an exchange of ideas.
Thanks, Steve.
Nico
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2007
From: "JTAddington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: environment global warming
Milt, I like your way of telling it like it is. I whole heartedly agree. The
news media is doing there best to do like the North Koreans did to our guys
in there POW camps, it's called brain washing.
Jim Addington
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 7:58 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: environment global warming
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
> environment in a dramatic fashion very odd.
I do not think you are seeing hostility towards the "notion" that we are
affecting the environment.
What you see hostility towards are the egg sucking liberals who are
attempting to use this as a wedge issue and blaming George Bush for
everything that is wrong with the environment. Especially Al Gore whos home
uses more BTUs per year than some small cities.
You are seeing hostility towards the hypoctisy of the far left.
Clearly the environment is changing and clearly humans habits are impacting
the environment.
The question is as John alluded to are we impacting it at a statistically
significant rate, ie if all humans were gone tomorrow what and how quickly
would things change.
I doubt Bush is hiding a smoking gun of info that says we are causing the
end of the world. That is just more liberal BS and sourgrapes from an
egghead who had his grant cancelled.
The truth about scientific data to date is the data is conflicting and in
disagreement, we really do not know how to interpret the data, The
contribution of mankind to the trends is miniscule compared to natural
forces so determining its true impact is beyond the capability of our
analytic capabilities.
The entire northern North American continent was once under ice and it is
now gone. The Southern half was under an ocean. All this changed long before
the internal combustion revolution and pampers. Now how can Al Gore possibly
blame that on us or George Bush?
In any event as you noted we can destroy our economy and way of life by
going overboard on protecting the environment and it matters naught because
the billions in 3rd world countries are going to consume the earth within
the next hundred years. But I suppose that is Bushs fault also. Maybe Barack
or Hilary will save us, especially if they appoint Pelosi and Boxer to
important environmental positions.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145355#145355
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rush Limbaugh and me
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2007
And I think how much time I could have been working on my plane then reading this
dribble. I gave up on politics when I stopped drinking.
GOD BLESS AMERICA, I am not a Christian, I am a none of the above
George Bush is Mentally Challenged.
Support the troops, Hate the War, Vietran
Don
--------
Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance
in this thing we call life.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145418#145418
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com>
Subject: Re: environment global warming
Date: Nov 12, 2007
All one needs to do to get a clear understanding of who is concerned about
the environment and who isn't, who is telling the truth as they know it to
be and who is running a scam is to look at the homes the people built to
live in.
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JTAddington
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:50 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: environment global warming
Milt, I like your way of telling it like it is. I whole heartedly agree. The
news media is doing there best to do like the North Koreans did to our guys
in there POW camps, it's called brain washing.
Jim Addington
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 7:58 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: environment global warming
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
> environment in a dramatic fashion very odd.
I do not think you are seeing hostility towards the "notion" that we are
affecting the environment.
What you see hostility towards are the egg sucking liberals who are
attempting to use this as a wedge issue and blaming George Bush for
everything that is wrong with the environment. Especially Al Gore whos home
uses more BTUs per year than some small cities.
You are seeing hostility towards the hypoctisy of the far left.
Clearly the environment is changing and clearly humans habits are impacting
the environment.
The question is as John alluded to are we impacting it at a statistically
significant rate, ie if all humans were gone tomorrow what and how quickly
would things change.
I doubt Bush is hiding a smoking gun of info that says we are causing the
end of the world. That is just more liberal BS and sourgrapes from an
egghead who had his grant cancelled.
The truth about scientific data to date is the data is conflicting and in
disagreement, we really do not know how to interpret the data, The
contribution of mankind to the trends is miniscule compared to natural
forces so determining its true impact is beyond the capability of our
analytic capabilities.
The entire northern North American continent was once under ice and it is
now gone. The Southern half was under an ocean. All this changed long before
the internal combustion revolution and pampers. Now how can Al Gore possibly
blame that on us or George Bush?
In any event as you noted we can destroy our economy and way of life by
going overboard on protecting the environment and it matters naught because
the billions in 3rd world countries are going to consume the earth within
the next hundred years. But I suppose that is Bushs fault also. Maybe Barack
or Hilary will save us, especially if they appoint Pelosi and Boxer to
important environmental positions.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145355#145355
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Date: Nov 08, 2007
You mean one that is 30 years old and has no RECORDED damage history, since
nobody would ever repair one without telling the FAA.
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BradG27Z
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:41 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not
interested in an aircraft with a damage history.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144568#144568
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2007
From: Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
No One has yet answered my question;
"Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure you will).....
Wouldn't a 'Cream Puff' 500S or B of under 5000 hrs possibly have a
serious spar issue waiting to be found where as over 10,000 hrs, if
it's still flying it's had any possible spar issues dealt with?
Though familiar with the issues for my 680E I'm not too sure about
others.
Any comments?
Cate
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Date: Nov 12, 2007
Who's to say??? If the aircraft was hangared all those years, and the
annual had an aggressive anti corrosion effort, coupled with careful
cleaning etc. it might be ok. If it were left outside for a few years,
or flew it's small ammount of time in a salty environment... Then what?
Also I would guess if it were used for survey that could also play into
it. ????
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Moshluk" <gmosh(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Rush Limbaugh and me
Date: Nov 12, 2007
Nico,
Your call To Rush was the best summary of what is happening to my/our
beloved United States. I only regret not having the presence of mind to
have put it so succinctly. These liberal activists are insane mad men
and women - how so many are fooled by their gibberish is amazing. I
honestly think it is time to clean the House (of representatives) and
the Senate too for that matter. We have created a political aristocracy
without conscience or morality that is destroying our Nation. It is
truly seditionist in my view.
These liberals are dangerous and must thrown from the steps of the
Capital as you would a drunk out of a saloon.
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about
Commanders but always about the group's interests. It's more like a
fire-side chat than a technical list. And when people with common
interests and passions sit together and talk, many a profound thing is
exchanged. We talk about Commanders (first and foremost) but also about
aviation in general, aircraft systems, engines, navaids, others'
experiences, life loves, others who had an unequal number of take-offs
and landings, politics, morals, and sometimes even religion. Those who
are offended leave and they even leave with decorum. Those who have
remained with us over the years have forged an invisible (to some)
familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecessary to
define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of
respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It's indeed unique,
enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed
to proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had
with Rush Limbaugh last Monday. I didn't get to say everything I wanted,
which is quite understandable considering the time issues with that
medium, but that Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an
achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary, assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling
all of us to find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I
chose the manner of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you
might be interested in it. If you believe it's appropriate, please pass
this on. We have already cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it
again at the end of November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared into never land. I'll see if this one is posted.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites
that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!!
That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase
"Global climate change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme
is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2
vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator
of the stupidity of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been
ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we
shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch
me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should
be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don't disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
> up where we picnic and don't waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly >
believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when >
we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the >
environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that >
we are influencing the globe's temperature is just not rational. If >
you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus, I'll join you if it
> means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe
> that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up to 20,000' with the noise being heard up to 100 miles >
away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100' tsunamis and boats rocked >
in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of >
the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away >
and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic >
kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and >
sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all >
over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was >
blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and >
artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash >
that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some >
tourists call a pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if
I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the >
nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events >
spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown >
amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, >
massive forest fires - and the planet deals with it, as it has been >
for millions of years, then it's hard to swallow the propaganda of >
global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting >
with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more >
blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my friend. You wouldn't part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a business deal to you. You'd probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or
2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference >
is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. >
Never, ever in the 10 years I've been playing there several times per >
week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the >
courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000' down to the coast >
and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day. >
If the wind blows (you've heard of the Santa Ana's, I'm sure) the >
entire region's temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and >
when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? >
Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years >
ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the >
danger we're in?
>
> Nah. I'd stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This > aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve @ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting
the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all >
contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at >
the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing >
dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The >
fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the >
temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
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>
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>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
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ommander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Date: Nov 12, 2007
RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!Cate,
There's a very interesting Australian piece dealing with the history of
Commander spar problems. The author mixes some good data, along with
some speculation that needs to be more carefully evaluated.
http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/AeroCommander.pdf
Our 500B has an aluminum strap, versus the later models with stainless
steel. We shouldn't have the same degree of problems as those with
straps of a dissimilar metal. The B might be a better bet for the long
run, but who knows?.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Catherine Chagnot
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 4:56 PM
Subject: Commander-List: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
puff!
No One has yet answered my question;
"Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure you will).....
Wouldn't a 'Cream Puff' 500S or B of under 5000 hrs possibly have a
serious spar issue waiting to be found where as over 10,000 hrs, if
it's still flying it's had any possible spar issues dealt with?
Though familiar with the issues for my 680E I'm not too sure about
others.
Any comments?
Cate
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Date: Nov 12, 2007
Cate,
The older aircraft before the 500S and 690's do not have major spar
problems. There is an attachment near the leading edge that is an AD
and a very old spar strap AD. The newer aircraft have the inspection
every 36 months.
Corrosion is always a problem with older aircraft. On the per-1960
680, there is a concern about the landing gear where it attaches to
the wing spar. JB could be more specific about that.
The CASA paper goes into the first spar strap that was an AD to be
complied before 2000 TT. With yours at over 10,000 hours, I would
expect it to have been taken care of.
The problem of low time aircraft is the unseen and unknown problems.
With an aircraft that is flown a lot, it has to be taken care of. If
it has flown on part 135 and have 10,000+ hours, someone has been
looking at it a lot.
It is the rubber parts that just become old. Hoses, window seals,
boots, wire covering, and gaskets, just become old and tired.
Tylor Hall
On Nov 12, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Steve @ Col-East wrote:
> Cate,
>
> There's a very interesting Australian piece dealing with the history
> of Commander spar problems. The author mixes some good data, along
> with some speculation that needs to be more carefully evaluated.
>
> http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/AeroCommander.pdf
>
> Our 500B has an aluminum strap, versus the later models with
> stainless steel. We shouldn't have the same degree of problems as
> those with straps of a dissimilar metal. The B might be a better bet
> for the long run, but who knows?.
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Catherine Chagnot
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 4:56 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
> puff!
>
> No One has yet answered my question;
>
> "Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure you will).....
>
> Wouldn't a 'Cream Puff' 500S or B of under 5000 hrs possibly have a
> serious spar issue waiting to be found where as over 10,000 hrs, if
> it's still flying it's had any possible spar issues dealt with?
> Though familiar with the issues for my 680E I'm not too sure about
> others.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Cate
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref=
> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2007
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Steve,
I've read that report numerous times. I agree that there is quite a bit
of speculation involved, as well as a healthy dose of pessimism. I think
it's necessary to remind everyone that the incidences of true spar
corrosion are few, and even if bad, curable. The cure (new spar cap)
isn't cheap, but it is a one-time treatment!
My 1962 500B with 18,000+ hours on it has no corrosion and has
repeatedly passed inspections with flying colors. The B models aren't
subject to the same spar issues as the 500S models, and even so, minimal
numbers of Shrikes will ever see any spar corrosion. I bet John Towner,
who monitors this list, hasn't seen any spar corrosion on his 24,000 B
model.
I think a couple of the airplanes may have suffered from a "bad day at
the office" by the guys who built them. Missed primer, scratches in
metal, and other manufacturing errors that aren't inherent flaws in the
design; add to that a harsh climate (fish spotting, anyone?) and
questionable maintenance, and you are going to get a couple of airplanes
with issues.
The Wing Station 24 & Wing Station 39 issues have been conquered via AD
& inspection. Has there been a wing failure (that dogfighting midair
doesn't count) since 1968? There was that one guy who dove through a
level-5 thunderstorm at Vne, up in OR/WA area, but I think that's it.
That paper makes a bigger deal out of the wing issue than it should. My
6,750 Lb. airplane has essentially a 12,000 Lb. wing on it. I would have
to really overload / overstress it to get it to fail, if it's in good
shape to start with.
Also, why do the failure rates seem so much higher down under? Is it
because the airplanes are flying upside down?
At least I don't own a Cessna 400-series turbine.....they have absolute
life limits now!
/J
Steve @ Col-East wrote:
> Cate,
>
> There's a very interesting Australian piece dealing with the history
> of Commander spar problems. The author mixes some good data, along
> with some speculation that needs to be more carefully evaluated.
>
> http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/AeroCommander.pdf
>
> Our 500B has an aluminum strap, versus the later models with stainless
> steel. We shouldn't have the same degree of problems as those with
> straps of a dissimilar metal. The B might be a better bet for the long
> run, but who knows?.
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Catherine Chagnot
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2007 4:56 PM
> *Subject:* Commander-List: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right
> cream puff!
>
> No One has yet answered my question;
>
> "*Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure you will).....
>
> Wouldn't a 'Cream Puff' 500S or B of under 5000 hrs possibly have a
> serious spar issue waiting to be found where as over 10,000 hrs, if
> it's still flying it's had any possible spar issues dealt with?
> Though familiar with the issues for my 680E I'm not too sure about
> others.*
>
> Any comments?
>
> Cate
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2007
From: Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Tylor,
Thanks for the in depth answer. I thought as much. My plane has some
5400 hours on it. I was asking because of the guy looking for a low
time Commander and his absolute rejection of anything over 5000 hrs.
It brought to mind the inspections due and what might be found. I
think you're right and anything in regular service and well looked
after is a better bet than just a 'low time' airplane.
Thanks,
Cate
N4278S 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2007
From: Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Steve,
Thanks for that history on the Commander spar issue. I'd run across
it before but hadn't been able to relocate it. Now the pdf is stored
on my computer. Something to read while I'm over here working on
Stirling engines in Korea away from my Commander.......
Cate
N4278S 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List of Contributors
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of
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for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
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PO Box 347
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Date: Nov 13, 2007
Cate,
As John said, the strap seems to have taken care of the problem. I probably
should have said so. I would personally rather fly a high time Commander
flown conservatively than a low time one flown by someone ham-handed or in a
rough duty cycle.
Over time, and with use, fatigue and corrosion are the two big issues. Cabin
class Cessna twins, and Beech T-34's, are interesting case studies in
fatigue. The 'duty cycle' of some T-34's seems to have accelerated the
fatigue issue, and the big Cessna twins seem to wear out doing what it is
they do. Cape Air runs a lot of 414's(?) around here and these seem to get
somewhat dicey as they get into high times. There have been structural
issues, and one very interesting story. The manner in which an aircraft is
flown over its lifetime has much to do with its health.
Aside from the design boo-boo's in the Commander spar cap, the Commander
doesn't seem one especially prone to fatigue in the structure over time.
Although at 9000 hours, we've replaced a couple rivets in our caps and
cowling areas that have been working. My impression is that a 15,000 hour
Cessna twin, and a 15,000 Commander are very different critters. (And I like
some of the Cessna twins. Spent a lot of time as a kid running around in an
old straight tail '59 310C and a 320. Both survey aircraft, and fast. Speed
good.)
My apologies if you already knew all this stuff. I don't mean to impersonate
an engineer on the internet (though I will sometimes impersonate a liberal.)
Stirling engines as in Stirling cycle?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Chagnot" <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:53 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
puff!
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Thanks for that history on the Commander spar issue. I'd run across it
> before but hadn't been able to relocate it. Now the pdf is stored on my
> computer. Something to read while I'm over here working on Stirling
> engines in Korea away from my Commander.......
>
> Cate
>
> N4278S 680E
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Date: Nov 13, 2007
I heard that!!!
;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
puff!
Cate,
As John said, the strap seems to have taken care of the problem. I probably
should have said so. I would personally rather fly a high time Commander
flown conservatively than a low time one flown by someone ham-handed or in a
rough duty cycle.
Over time, and with use, fatigue and corrosion are the two big issues. Cabin
class Cessna twins, and Beech T-34's, are interesting case studies in
fatigue. The 'duty cycle' of some T-34's seems to have accelerated the
fatigue issue, and the big Cessna twins seem to wear out doing what it is
they do. Cape Air runs a lot of 414's(?) around here and these seem to get
somewhat dicey as they get into high times. There have been structural
issues, and one very interesting story. The manner in which an aircraft is
flown over its lifetime has much to do with its health.
Aside from the design boo-boo's in the Commander spar cap, the Commander
doesn't seem one especially prone to fatigue in the structure over time.
Although at 9000 hours, we've replaced a couple rivets in our caps and
cowling areas that have been working. My impression is that a 15,000 hour
Cessna twin, and a 15,000 Commander are very different critters. (And I like
some of the Cessna twins. Spent a lot of time as a kid running around in an
old straight tail '59 310C and a 320. Both survey aircraft, and fast. Speed
good.)
My apologies if you already knew all this stuff. I don't mean to impersonate
an engineer on the internet (though I will sometimes impersonate a liberal.)
Stirling engines as in Stirling cycle?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Chagnot" <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:53 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
puff!
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Thanks for that history on the Commander spar issue. I'd run across it
> before but hadn't been able to relocate it. Now the pdf is stored on my
> computer. Something to read while I'm over here working on Stirling
> engines in Korea away from my Commander.......
>
> Cate
>
> N4278S 680E
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Date: Nov 13, 2007
cate, or pay low price for a low time aircraft and put the differential in
seals, gaskets, hoses,fittings, etc that will not be in good shape from jus
t sitting waiting to be a "low time" aircraft that need a bunch of $'s thro
wn at it. mason 2001m
> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 02:43:19 -0500> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com>
From: cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com> Subject: Commander-List: Re: RE: Re: Premiu
Catherine Chagnot > > Tylor,> > Thanks for the i
n depth answer. I thought as much. My plane has some > 5400 hours on it. I
was asking because of the guy looking for a low > time Commander and his ab
solute rejection of anything over 5000 hrs. > It brought to mind the inspec
tions due and what might be found. I > think you're right and anything in r
egular service and well looked > after is a better bet than just a 'low tim
====================> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: environment global warming
From: "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
Date: Nov 13, 2007
> look at the homes the people built to
> live in.
>
As delineated here http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145697#145697
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com>
Date: Nov 13, 2007
Subject: Rush Limbaugh and me
Relative to the election/court corruption, take a look at what happened her
e in WA in 2004. I think you'll be shocked.
It was the proximate cause of the president firing some of the US Attys, al
so.
It would be nice to live in a democratic republic again, rather than a Demo
cratic Republic.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Moshluk
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Nico,
Your call To Rush was the best summary of what is happening to my/our belov
ed United States. I only regret not having the presence of mind to have pu
t it so succinctly. These liberal activists are insane mad men and women
- how so many are fooled by their gibberish is amazing. I honestly think i
t is time to clean the House (of representatives) and the Senate too for th
at matter. We have created a political aristocracy without conscience or m
orality that is destroying our Nation. It is truly seditionist in my view.
These liberals are dangerous and must thrown from the steps of the Capital
as you would a drunk out of a saloon.
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css<mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost always o
f profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but a
lways about the group's interests. It's more like a fire-side chat than a t
echnical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit toget
her and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about Commanders
(first and foremost) but also about aviation in general, aircraft systems,
engines, navaids, others' experiences, life loves, others who had an unequa
l number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and sometimes even re
ligion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with decorum. Thos
e who have remained with us over the years have forged an invisible (to som
e) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecessary to define
. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of respect pre
vails without sowing discord or insult. It's indeed unique, enjoyable, and
a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so many o
thers, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to procl
aim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The best I can
convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with Rush Limba
ugh last Monday. I didn't get to say everything I wanted, which is quite un
derstandable considering the time issues with that medium, but that Rush ga
ve me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us to
find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the manner
of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested in
it. If you believe it's appropriate, please pass this on. We have already
cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of Novembe
r.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist. W
ell, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag...
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just disappeared
into never land. I'll see if this one is posted.
Nico
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that me
asure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply no
proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the recorded mid
level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why w
e hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate chan
ge?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
to:john(at)vormbaum.com>>
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a h
uge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidi
ty of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, t
ry to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flyi
ng, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science class
es in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most w
e can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 milli
on years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean i
tself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and u
npolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologic
ally. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing ba
ttles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the
Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live a
t the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquak
e, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to r
ebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the e
ye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush,
green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me dri
ving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called
the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet
the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico.
>
> bilbo
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.
com] *On Behalf Of *nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don't disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of > th
e environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up w
here we picnic and don't waste water, prefer a cleaner running > engine tha
n one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no re
asonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and respon
sible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the globe's temp
erature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and believe in S
anta Claus, I'll join you if it > means being responsible custodians of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate cha
nge, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruptio
n, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20
,000' with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 1883 er
uptions caused 100' tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa, thousands
of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions could be heard
in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 m
iles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses,
such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosph
ere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid ra
in. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explo
sion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of
ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > kilome
ters drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing the
landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > s
ee the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into th
e atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fiss
ures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires - and the
planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it's har
d to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to b
lackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where hav
e you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Ky
oto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > resp
onsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my frie
nd. You wouldn't part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a busin
ess deal to you. You'd probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 >
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > frien
ds about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morni
ng. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than
18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10
years I've been playing there several times per > week, has the temperatur
e been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 mi
les west and 1,000' down to the coast > and the temperature would be vastly
different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you've heard of the
Santa Ana's, I'm sure) the > entire region's temperature is hay-wire. Wher
e do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 d
eg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it
1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine
the > danger we're in?
>
> Nah. I'd stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This > a
int mud.
>
> Nico
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.
com] *On Behalf Of > *St
eve @ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > e
nvironment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, tr
ansportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 year
s of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial
age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more peopl
e adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in t
he atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > gues
s I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustai
nable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B(at)aol.com >
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com > writes:
>
> Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com>
> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*>
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 2007
Subject: Re: Rush Limbaugh and me
For what ever it is worth. We need to elect some Americans to congress and
the White House and throw these other idiots ( career politicians) out of our
country, which they have grossly abused with their own person agenda`s. (ie.
GREED and lack of love for this Country) Just got back from Peru and I can
tell you as a result of all of my foreign travels. This is the best country in
the world and we need to do every thing possible to KEEP it this way. GOD
BLESS AMERICA& WE NEED YOUR HELP! Some of the things congress and the MEDIA
have said and done would have been TREASON and penalty by DEATH during WW2 .
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2007
From: Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Subject: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Steve,
Stirling as in Stirling Cycle, yep....
We have a design (and a production engine) for a 5 HP biomass fired
(sawdust, rice husks, etc.) Stirling engine meant for developing
countries. I'm over here trying to get a tech transfer project going
to mass produce our design. I haven't wanted to comment on this whole
global warming environment thing but I do believe that world wide
demand for fossil fuels, especially oil, has increased to outstrip
supply. About 1.5 Billion Chinese, 1 billion Indians and then add the
rest, coming on line, driving cars, running fridges, etc and it's no
wonder the price of oil isn't higher.
By using alternative fuels for applications that don't require
extremely high energy density fuels we can possibly save the high
energy stuff (gasoline) for applications that have no
alternative....AIRPLANES!
Drive an electric car, heat with wood, save the gas for the planes......
Cate
N4278S 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
puff!
Date: Nov 13, 2007
Hi Cate,
As someone who's been at the center of some controversy here, I'd like to
(carefully) comment on what you said. I believe you are absolutely right
about oil demand that would (or already has) outstrip supply. I just saw
this morning that the price of oil dropped by $2 due to the expected oil
demand for the next year has been adjusted downwards due to the high price
of crude. It just goes to show that capitalist price dynamics do work.
Finding alternative energy sources at the ground level, as you describe what
you are trying to do with low intensity energy sources, is a very bold,
unique move. I hope you get 3rd-world countries to sign up on the idea.
In the 50's my dad had a Stirling engine, single cylinder (I don't know if
they are available with more than one), upright with a long cylinder
pointing downwards with the piston operating in the top part, and we could
get it to really rev up by making a small newspaper fire under the bottom
part of the protruding cylinder.
It was much later that I learned it was a Stirling engine - always wondered
if that thing wouldn't be the closest to perpetual motion when used in the
hot climates of the world.
Right now, I hope that our elected officials would have the 'pair' to push
hard enough to get us utilizing our own oil deposits before the Chinese and
Russians have poked too many holes in the earth's core around our own
shores. Our planes are going to fly on good ole Jet A, or 100 for quite a
number of years to come.
I have a personal question for you: what's a gal doing messing with engines
and planes at the engineering level? ;-)
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catherine
Chagnot
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:45 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
puff!
Steve,
Stirling as in Stirling Cycle, yep....
We have a design (and a production engine) for a 5 HP biomass fired
(sawdust, rice husks, etc.) Stirling engine meant for developing
countries. I'm over here trying to get a tech transfer project going
to mass produce our design. I haven't wanted to comment on this whole
global warming environment thing but I do believe that world wide
demand for fossil fuels, especially oil, has increased to outstrip
supply. About 1.5 Billion Chinese, 1 billion Indians and then add the
rest, coming on line, driving cars, running fridges, etc and it's no
wonder the price of oil isn't higher.
By using alternative fuels for applications that don't require
extremely high energy density fuels we can possibly save the high
energy stuff (gasoline) for applications that have no
alternative....AIRPLANES!
Drive an electric car, heat with wood, save the gas for the planes......
Cate
N4278S 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Date: Nov 08, 2007
Very well put,,,mostly small words. I like that.
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
It's like wanting to marry at age 50 and looking for a virgin.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
Stay clear of this one, there certainly appears to be an attitude problem,
not sure if he even deserves to own a Commander.
Tom.
----- Original Message -----
From: "BradG27Z" <BradG27Z(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:41 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!
>
> I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not
> interested in an aircraft with a damage history.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144568#144568
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2007
From: Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Yo Nico,
Did you hear that they discovered oil in South Africa?
What do you mean "what's a gal doing all this engineering stuff?" I
suppose you might think that 'gals' shouldn't be flying
airplanes........
Gimme a break!
Under Van de Merwe's Car?
Cate
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2007
From: Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Hey Nico,
Don't take me too seriously.......:-)
I'm a mechanical engineer and have been working in the field of
Stirling Engines for 30 years. Flying for some 34 years. I grew up in
South Africa, though born and will always be American....I watched
your video and did I detect a South African accent?......
Cate
N4278S 680E
God fearin'
Gun totin'
Airplane flyin'
Liberal
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Premium dollar for the right cream
Date: Nov 14, 2007
Hahahaha.
You know about van der Merwe, huh?
I had to ask about the gal stuff, you know. Truth be told, I believe women
are great engineers. Well, at least some of them. Just like some men are not
great engineers. I think that it was a woman who designed the front-axle of
the car.
It might be an oldwives' tale (pardon the pun) but I remember my dad telling
us that engineers couldn't figure out how to prevent the early engine's
crankshaft from breaking at higher RPM's. They made everything bigger and
stronger, but it still flew apart until one of the women who brought them
tea suggested they make the conrods and crankshaft counter weights smaller
and lighter. That worked.
So, lore or not, women have played significant roles in all aspects of the
traditional 'men-only' professions.
But flying airplanes? (That one is for the oil in South Africa prank).
Just kidding, Cate. Women make great pilots. I mean who would argue with
Patty Wagstaff or Amelia Earhart.
See? I can be reasonable.
Nico
PS. How do you know about van der Merwe?
PPS. I'd love to get my hands on a Stirling engine again.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catherine
Chagnot
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:40 AM
Subject: Commander-List: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right
cream
Yo Nico,
Did you hear that they discovered oil in South Africa?
What do you mean "what's a gal doing all this engineering stuff?" I
suppose you might think that 'gals' shouldn't be flying
airplanes........
Gimme a break!
Under Van de Merwe's Car?
Cate
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Date: Nov 14, 2007
No kidding? Where in South Africa?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catherine
Chagnot
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:05 AM
Subject: Commander-List: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right
cream
Hey Nico,
Don't take me too seriously.......:-)
I'm a mechanical engineer and have been working in the field of
Stirling Engines for 30 years. Flying for some 34 years. I grew up in
South Africa, though born and will always be American....I watched
your video and did I detect a South African accent?......
Cate
N4278S 680E
God fearin'
Gun totin'
Airplane flyin'
Liberal
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Date: Nov 14, 2007
Cate,
That's just what I've been thinking. Get everyone off gas so those of us
that want to burn it for recreation can! Once a motorhead, always a
motorhead. I'm trying hard to warm up to electric vehicles, but it's hard to
even stay awake in a Prius. Do heat with wood, and trying to enjoy smaller
fast cars when not driving the pickup.
How big a of a temperature differential is required to get any power out of
your little Stirling? Great idea to produce an engine that can use cheap
readily indigenous fuel for power. Is the concept scale-able?
Steve
P.S. Gun toting for some time. When you piss off both the far left and the
far right at the same time, it might come in handy if hugs don't work and
the potato canon jams.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Chagnot" <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:04 AM
Subject: Commander-List: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right
cream
>
>
> Hey Nico,
>
> Don't take me too seriously.......:-)
>
> I'm a mechanical engineer and have been working in the field of Stirling
> Engines for 30 years. Flying for some 34 years. I grew up in South Africa,
> though born and will always be American....I watched your video and did I
> detect a South African accent?......
>
> Cate
>
> N4278S 680E
> God fearin'
> Gun totin'
> Airplane flyin'
> Liberal
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Date: Nov 14, 2007
Steve,
I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches. That opportunity
will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The auto maintenance
industry would essentially end, which is probably one factor in the amount
of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from the auto industry.
If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very exciting electric cars on the horizon.
/John
PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun boards,
my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for a libertarian
like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which makes me welcome
on neither side of the fence.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Date: Nov 14, 2007
John,
As a piston manufacturer that thought had not occurred to me. Resistance?
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Steve,
I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches. That
opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The auto
maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably one factor in
the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from the auto
industry.
If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be
looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to
like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the
ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just
saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and
its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very
exciting electric cars on the horizon.
/John
PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun
boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for a
libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which makes
me welcome on neither side of the fence.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2007
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Well, the auto websites are rife with conspiracies about big oil &
Detroit quashing electric cars. Electric cars mean no oil changes, no
air filters, no spark plugs, etc....just wheel bearings & tires
essentially, maybe with the occasional motor or battery being replaced.
A whole sub-industry, maintenance and parts, would essentially be gone.
Of course, the conspiracy nuts are imagining going all electric
overnight. In reality it would probably take 30+ years to get there, so
your piston business would be healthy for years to come.
The wackiest thing I've seen on that is the "Who Killed the Electric
Car" special about the Buick EV1. GM bought ALL of them back and ran
them through a crusher despite the best efforts of the owners (all
lessees) to keep them. It was GM, plus Chevron, plus the US Gov't. all
conspiring to make sure that this great car didn't revolutionize the
world. In truth, it was a good car, but had some issues including crappy
range.
Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered
cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway.
/J
Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
>
> John,
>
> As a piston manufacturer that thought had not occurred to me. Resistance?
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
>
>
> Steve,
>
> I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches. That
> opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The auto
> maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably one factor in
> the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from the auto
> industry.
>
> If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be
> looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to
> like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the
> ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just
> saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and
> its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very
> exciting electric cars on the horizon.
>
> /John
>
> PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun
> boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for a
> libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which makes
> me welcome on neither side of the fence.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2007
From: Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Subject: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Nico,
Johannesburg. I lived there in the sixties and early seventies. Who
else would know about Van de Merwe?
There are a number of sites out there where one can buy a Stirling
engine. American Stirling is one
( http://www.stirlingengine.com/ ) if you're interested. Almost
everything available is basically for demonstration only. There are a
few companies out there working on serious engines but few have made
it to production.
You said your father had one? Can you remember what type it was?
There were a number of companies making Stirling engines for low
power applications like pumping water and Kerosene fans made in the
late 1800s and early 1900s. Sadly, few of these engines still exist.
Cate
N4278S 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Date: Nov 14, 2007
John,
Our industry, much like the tobacco industry is in a slow decline, and has
been for some time. Several years ago nearly every car at the race track or
strip had eight pistons, eight spark plugs and on and on. Now most have
only four. Over one half of our customers who once owned independent
garages have bit the dust in the last 10 years. Since I am retiring next
month I am not as concerned as I once was. The hybrids will be very high
maintenance as they get older. They will require a different skill set than
the average mechanic has today. Try doing a brake job on a car that uses
alternators as a part of the braking system. Battery disposal will be
challenging.
In 1964 (my first year in the racing business) the death of the internal
combustion engine was announced. Andy Granatelli had almost won Indy with
the Novi and Chrysler was driving the turbines around and loaning them to
people. Forty three years later........
My understanding is that GM called in the EV1 cars for much the same reasons
that the Starship planes were purchased quietly and shredded.
If you want to feel some good honest acceleration ride in a Pious that has
the electrical (instant torque with a slider clutch installed)and gasoline
engine both running at the same time (a minor modification) ...the hot
rodding spirit is still alive.
Moe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Well, the auto websites are rife with conspiracies about big oil &
Detroit quashing electric cars. Electric cars mean no oil changes, no
air filters, no spark plugs, etc....just wheel bearings & tires
essentially, maybe with the occasional motor or battery being replaced.
A whole sub-industry, maintenance and parts, would essentially be gone.
Of course, the conspiracy nuts are imagining going all electric
overnight. In reality it would probably take 30+ years to get there, so
your piston business would be healthy for years to come.
The wackiest thing I've seen on that is the "Who Killed the Electric
Car" special about the Buick EV1. GM bought ALL of them back and ran
them through a crusher despite the best efforts of the owners (all
lessees) to keep them. It was GM, plus Chevron, plus the US Gov't. all
conspiring to make sure that this great car didn't revolutionize the
world. In truth, it was a good car, but had some issues including crappy
range.
Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered
cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway.
/J
Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
>
> John,
>
> As a piston manufacturer that thought had not occurred to me. Resistance?
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
>
>
> Steve,
>
> I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches.
That
> opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The auto
> maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably one factor
in
> the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from the auto
> industry.
>
> If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be
> looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to
> like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the
> ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just
> saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and
> its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very
> exciting electric cars on the horizon.
>
> /John
>
> PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun
> boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for
a
> libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which makes
> me welcome on neither side of the fence.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right
cream
Date: Nov 14, 2007
cate, were you not the one parked next to me at the flyin? mason 680Fp 200
1M
> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:20:29 -0500> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com>
From: cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com> Subject: Commander-List: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE
: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream> > --> Commander-List message post
ed by: Catherine Chagnot > > Nico,> > Johannesbur
g. I lived there in the sixties and early seventies. Who > else would know
about Van de Merwe?> > There are a number of sites out there where one can
buy a Stirling > engine. American Stirling is one> ( http://www.stirlingeng
ine.com/ ) if you're interested. Almost > everything available is basically
for demonstration only. There are a > few companies out there working on s
erious engines but few have made > it to production.> > You said your fathe
r had one? Can you remember what type it was? > There were a number of comp
anies making Stirling engines for low > power applications like pumping wat
er and Kerosene fans made in the > late 1800s and early 1900s. Sadly, few o
======================> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Date: Nov 14, 2007
John,
Yeah, there do seem to be some interesting electric cars coming down the
pike. I did see some youtube video with something called a killacycle (or
something like that). Jeepers, creepers it was fast.
I was pessimistic about the future of tinkering at one time, but I'm not
sure you can kill the hotrod spirit. Seems you can't keep good tinkerers
down, and the amount of wacky home grown electric stuff is amazing. The low
end torque of the electric motors is astonishing.
I think it was the Sonex homebuilt guys that are playing with an electric
powerplant for a light aircraft. That would be a pretty neat milestone if
they get any kind of time aloft.
We're a little ways away from plugging in a Commander overnight to recharge,
but who knows what the future holds.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:06 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
>
> Steve,
>
> I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches.
> That opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The
> auto maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably one
> factor in the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from
> the auto industry.
>
> If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be
> looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to
> like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the
> ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just
> saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and
> its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very
> exciting electric cars on the horizon.
>
> /John
>
> PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun
> boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for
> a libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which
> makes me welcome on neither side of the fence.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2007
From: Catherine Chagnot <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com>
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right
Mason,
I was parked next to you. If you don't see me on these lists for a
couple of days it's because I'm leaving Korea soon to head home..
Cate
N4278S
________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the
right
Date: Nov 14, 2007
cc, have a safe journey. i enjoyed meeting you look forward to seeing you a
gain.gmc
> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:22:21 -0500> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com>
From: cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com> Subject: Commander-List: RE: RE: RE: Re: Re
: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the right> > --> Commander-List message posted
by: Catherine Chagnot > > Mason,> > I was parked
next to you. If you don't see me on these lists for a > couple of days it'
=> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the
right
Date: Nov 14, 2007
Let us know when you are back, Cate
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catherine
Chagnot
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:22 PM
Subject: Commander-List: RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Premium dollar for the
right
Mason,
I was parked next to you. If you don't see me on these lists for a
couple of days it's because I'm leaving Korea soon to head home..
Cate
N4278S
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2007
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Moe,
Congrats on your upcoming retirement! I hope you get to do lots of
flying, with all that extra time....come visit northern CA!
I can see how there has been a decline in your industry. I do think that
technology will change in large part how transportation will work. I
just hope that someone develops a fuel source or motor that will
revolutionize aviation. Jet-A can't last forever, and AvGas will
disappear long before Jet-A.
I'm pretty sure GM had valid reason to recall the EV1's. They didn't
want to support them, and yes, battery disposal & replacement was going
to be a difficult prospect if they continued to make the cars.
I had no idea there was a way to make a Pious get out of its own way.
I'll have to see that in action.
Cheers,
/John
Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Our industry, much like the tobacco industry is in a slow decline, and has
> been for some time. Several years ago nearly every car at the race track or
> strip had eight pistons, eight spark plugs and on and on. Now most have
> only four. Over one half of our customers who once owned independent
> garages have bit the dust in the last 10 years. Since I am retiring next
> month I am not as concerned as I once was. The hybrids will be very high
> maintenance as they get older. They will require a different skill set than
> the average mechanic has today. Try doing a brake job on a car that uses
> alternators as a part of the braking system. Battery disposal will be
> challenging.
>
> In 1964 (my first year in the racing business) the death of the internal
> combustion engine was announced. Andy Granatelli had almost won Indy with
> the Novi and Chrysler was driving the turbines around and loaning them to
> people. Forty three years later........
>
> My understanding is that GM called in the EV1 cars for much the same reasons
> that the Starship planes were purchased quietly and shredded.
>
> If you want to feel some good honest acceleration ride in a Pious that has
> the electrical (instant torque with a slider clutch installed)and gasoline
> engine both running at the same time (a minor modification) ...the hot
> rodding spirit is still alive.
>
> Moe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:53 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
>
>
> Well, the auto websites are rife with conspiracies about big oil &
> Detroit quashing electric cars. Electric cars mean no oil changes, no
> air filters, no spark plugs, etc....just wheel bearings & tires
> essentially, maybe with the occasional motor or battery being replaced.
> A whole sub-industry, maintenance and parts, would essentially be gone.
> Of course, the conspiracy nuts are imagining going all electric
> overnight. In reality it would probably take 30+ years to get there, so
> your piston business would be healthy for years to come.
>
> The wackiest thing I've seen on that is the "Who Killed the Electric
> Car" special about the Buick EV1. GM bought ALL of them back and ran
> them through a crusher despite the best efforts of the owners (all
> lessees) to keep them. It was GM, plus Chevron, plus the US Gov't. all
> conspiring to make sure that this great car didn't revolutionize the
> world. In truth, it was a good car, but had some issues including crappy
> range.
>
> Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered
> cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway.
>
> /J
>
> Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
>
>>
>
>
>> John,
>>
>> As a piston manufacturer that thought had not occurred to me. Resistance?
>>
>> Moe
>> N680RR
>> 680F(p)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>> Vormbaum
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
>>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches.
>>
> That
>
>> opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The auto
>> maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably one factor
>>
> in
>
>> the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from the auto
>> industry.
>>
>> If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be
>> looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to
>> like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the
>> ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just
>> saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and
>> its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very
>> exciting electric cars on the horizon.
>>
>> /John
>>
>> PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun
>> boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for
>>
> a
>
>> libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which makes
>> me welcome on neither side of the fence.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2007
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
Steve, I know the car you're talking about. It's based on I think a
british kit/racing car that was originally powered by a gasoline engine.
Was it the skeleton-looking car? 2-seater? If so, the guy who built the
electric version lives here in Palo Alto...and man, that thing is FAST.
If someone does develop a battery where we can plug in our commanders
overnight, I'm screwed.....it took 5 years on the waiting list to get a
taxi-through parking spot. Can you imagine how long I'll have to be on
the list to get a taxi-through spot next to an electrical outlet?
The electric airplane they're testing, the Cessna, I think has ~30 min.
flight time. I'm also sure it has nothing for a useful load....but I'm
still hoping.
/J
Steve at Col-East wrote:
>
>
> John,
>
> Yeah, there do seem to be some interesting electric cars coming down
> the pike. I did see some youtube video with something called a
> killacycle (or something like that). Jeepers, creepers it was fast.
>
> I was pessimistic about the future of tinkering at one time, but I'm
> not sure you can kill the hotrod spirit. Seems you can't keep good
> tinkerers down, and the amount of wacky home grown electric stuff is
> amazing. The low end torque of the electric motors is astonishing.
>
> I think it was the Sonex homebuilt guys that are playing with an
> electric powerplant for a light aircraft. That would be a pretty neat
> milestone if they get any kind of time aloft.
>
> We're a little ways away from plugging in a Commander overnight to
> recharge, but who knows what the future holds.
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:06 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream
>
>
>>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning
>> wrenches. That opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car
>> takes over. The auto maintenance industry would essentially end,
>> which is probably one factor in the amount of resistance (ha!)
>> electric cars are getting from the auto industry.
>>
>> If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should
>> be looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's
>> not to like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or
>> check out the ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a
>> concept car, I just saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did
>> 320 kph on the track, and its acceleration was far better than a
>> Subaru WRX. There are some very exciting electric cars on the horizon.
>>
>> /John
>>
>> PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the
>> gun boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political
>> party for a libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND
>> pro-choice, which makes me welcome on neither side of the fence.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Value of the List...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least 0 or 0 worth
of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription
to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least
that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get
a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support the
Lists?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2007
From: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Premium dollar for the right cream
Nico,
We all know about van der Merwe, would you like to hear the about his
first visit to Sydney.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
----------
At 00:19 15/11/2007, you wrote:
>
>Hahahaha.
>You know about van der Merwe, huh?
>I had to ask about the gal stuff, you know. Truth be told, I believe women
>are great engineers. Well, at least some of them. Just like some men are not
>great engineers. I think that it was a woman who designed the front-axle of
>the car.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Premium dollar for the right cream
Date: Nov 15, 2007
Sure.
I guess I'm still living in the past where what happens south of the Limpopo
is pretty much a secret. The boere has migrated to all corners of the globe.
Even here in California one cannot skinner about anyone any more - in
Afrikaans, that is. Perhaps one shouldn't skinner to begin with, huh? ;-)
Even my spellchecker knows about 'Afrikaans'.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W J R
HAMILTON
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:08 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Premium dollar for the right cream
Nico,
We all know about van der Merwe, would you like to hear the about his first
visit to Sydney.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
_____
At 00:19 15/11/2007, you wrote:
Hahahaha.
You know about van der Merwe, huh?
I had to ask about the gal stuff, you know. Truth be told, I believe women
are great engineers. Well, at least some of them. Just like some men are not
great engineers. I think that it was a woman who designed the front-axle of
the car.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2007
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Since we are getting so far off from Commanders, can any of you space cadets tell
me why my 1940 John Deere H cranks harder today that it did 30 years ago?
I wont peel any bananas for the correct answer.
dan
69U
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Nov 15, 2007
Dan,
What do you mean it cranks harder? Are you saying that the engine is harder
to turn over when starting by hand? If so, have you considered the
possibility that you are not as strong now as you were 30 years ago?
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:41 AM
Subject:
Since we are getting so far off from Commanders, can any of you space cadets
tell me why my 1940 John Deere H cranks harder today that it did 30 years
ago?
I wont peel any bananas for the correct answer.
dan
69U
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Victor C. Rupert" <V-Man@V-Man.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Nov 15, 2007
Ahhh!!! You should have a hard working 1947 Farmall C with electric
start like me!!! Red over Green.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:40 AM
Since we are getting so far off from Commanders, can any of you space
cadets tell me why my 1940 John Deere H cranks harder today that it did
30 years ago?
I wont peel any bananas for the correct answer.
dan
69U
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Nov 15, 2007
Dan
Couldn't be that you had 'younger clothes' on then could it?
It seems like my 52 B also cranks harder, but I just chocked it up to
the overhaul, that and my carb. probably needs a new kit, won't idle
real slow like it should.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:40 AM
Since we are getting so far off from Commanders, can any of you space
cadets tell me why my 1940 John Deere H cranks harder today that it did
30 years ago?
I wont peel any bananas for the correct answer.
dan
69U
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/15/2007 9:34 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Nov 15, 2007
Maybe it's time to replace the 30 year-old 6 volt battery?
With global warming, my Ford 8N just kept cranking better.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:40 AM
Since we are getting so far off from Commanders, can any of you space
cadets tell me why my 1940 John Deere H cranks harder today that it did
30 years ago?
I wont peel any bananas for the correct answer.
dan
69U
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE:
Date: Nov 15, 2007
I bet your 67 year old John Deere seat is in better shape than my 3, 2 year
old John Deere seats. Great machines but crappy seats.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject:
Since we are getting so far off from Commanders, can any of you space cadets
tell me why my 1940 John Deere H cranks harder today that it did 30 years
ago?
I wont peel any bananas for the correct answer.
dan
69U
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Nov 16, 2007
Dan
It is because you are getting weaker. The arm is not as strong as it once
was. Hand included.
But on the bright side apparently great wisdom comes with increasing
weakness.
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Friday, 16 November 2007 3:41 AM
Subject:
Since we are getting so far off from Commanders, can any of you space cadets
tell me why my 1940 John Deere H cranks harder today that it did 30 years
ago?
I wont peel any bananas for the correct answer.
dan
69U
________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)msn.com>
Subject: FW:
Date: Nov 15, 2007
From: kaydickson(at)charter.netTo: MMPurnell(at)aol.com; lxlaw89(at)yahoo.com; Ahdow
dell(at)sbcglobal.net; brigedaire(at)sbcglobal.net; BILLYM248(at)aol.com; mocardona@
hotmail.com; kamala(at)msn.com; allieslaughter(at)hotmail.comSubject: Fw: Date: T
----- Original Message -----
From: R. L. DOWDELL
.net ; bsherw4928(at)sbcglobal.net ; Doyle Beavers ; catzed(at)yahoo.com ; claude
whitley(at)yahoo.com ; don(at)thecottingamecompany.com ; gacfw(at)sbcglobal.net ; gs
i(at)flash.net ; Hannah Maxwell ; irenecannon(at)tx.rr.com ; jackw5lue(at)webtv.net
; jamiparis910(at)sbcglobal.net ; jcmurray2(at)mindspring.com ; JVanBuskirk(at)msn.c
om ; jwhitley(at)sbcglobal.net ; kaydickson(at)charter.net ; wb5dmq(at)charter.net ;
whflint(at)sbcglobal.net ; whitley(at)quadralay.com ; wlnix(at)our-town.com ; zdowd
ell
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:21 PM
>From a friend.
Subject: Looking Back
Subject: Interesting insights
One of the best points of view that I have heard on the current political
situation concerning the war on terror. "You ain't gonna like losing."
Unfortunately, Author unknown President Bush did make a bad mistake in
the war on terrorism. But the mistake was not his decision to go to war in
Iraq . Bush's mistake came in his belief that this country is the same on
e his father fought for in WW2. It is not. Back then, they had just come o
ut of a vicious depression. The country was steeled by the hardship of tha
t depression, but they still believed fervently in this country. They knew
that the people had elected their leaders, so it was the people's duty to
back those leaders. Therefore, when the war broke out the people came tog
ether, rallied behind, and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted
for them or not or whether the war was going badly or not. And war was j
ust as distasteful and the anguish just as great as it is today. Often ther
e were more casualties in one day in WW2 than we have had in the entire Ir
aq war. But that did not matter. The people stuck with the President becau
se it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their differences in W
W2 and worked together to win that war. Everyone from every strata of soci
ety, from young to old pitched in. Small children pulled little wagons aro
und to gather scrap metal for the war effort. Grade school students saved
their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to help the effort. Men who were
too old or medically 4F lied about their age or condition trying their be
st to join the military. Women doubled their work to keep things going at
home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap, to butter was i
mposed, yet there was very little complaining. You never heard prominent p
eople on the radio belittling the President. Interestingly enough in those
days there were no fat cat actors and entertainers who ran off to visit a
nd fawn over dictators of hostile countries and complain to them about our
President. Instead, they made upbeat films and entertained our troops to
help the troops' morale. And a bunch even enlisted! And imagine this: Teac
hers in schools actually started the day off with a Pledge of Allegiance a
nd with prayers for our country and our troops! Back then, no newspaper wo
uld have dared point out certain weak spots in our cities where bombs coul
d be set off to cause the maximum damage. No newspaper would have dared co
mplain about what we were doing to catch spies. A newspaper would have bee
n laughed out of existence if it had complained that German or Japanese so
ldiers were being 'tortured' by being forced to wear women's underwear, or
subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being scared by a dog or did no
t have air conditioning. There were a lot of things different back then. W
e were not subjected to a constant bombardment of pornography, perversion
and promiscuity in movies or on radio. We did not have legions of crack he
ads, dope pushers and armed gangs roaming our streets. No, President Bush
did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He made the mistake o
f believing that we still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers. He
believed that this was still the country that our fathers fought so dearl
y to preserve. It is not the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom
and Gomorrah and the Land of Oz. We did unite for a short while after 9/1
1, but our attitude changed when we found out that defending our country w
ould actually require some sacrifices. We are in great danger. The terrori
sts are fanatic Muslims. They believe that it is okay, even their duty, to
kill anyone who will not convert to Islam. It has been estimated that abo
ut one-third or over three hundred million Muslims are sympathetic to the
terrorists cause...Hitler and Tojo combined did not have nearly that many
potential recruits. So...we either win it - or lose it - and you ain't gon
na like losing. America is not at war. The military is at war. America is
at the Mall.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com>
Subject: Premium dollar for the right cream
Date: Nov 16, 2007
Nico ,
Julle Vaalies moenie op hierdie lyse skinner nie. Ons in OZ kan ook
Afrikaans praat.
Tot siens
Richard
Now for all those English only speakers.
You Africans must not gossip on this list. We in OZ can also speak
Afrikaans.
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Friday, 16 November 2007 12:31 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Premium dollar for the right cream
Sure.
I guess I'm still living in the past where what happens south of the Limpopo
is pretty much a secret. The boere has migrated to all corners of the globe.
Even here in California one cannot skinner about anyone any more - in
Afrikaans, that is. Perhaps one shouldn't skinner to begin with, huh? ;-)
Even my spellchecker knows about 'Afrikaans'.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W J R
HAMILTON
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:08 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Premium dollar for the right cream
Nico,
We all know about van der Merwe, would you like to hear the about his first
visit to Sydney.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
_____
At 00:19 15/11/2007, you wrote:
Hahahaha.
You know about van der Merwe, huh?
I had to ask about the gal stuff, you know. Truth be told, I believe women
are great engineers. Well, at least some of them. Just like some men are not
great engineers. I think that it was a woman who designed the front-axle of
the car.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2007
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Dan, were you or you're family formerly a JD dealer?
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:40:39 AM
Subject:
Since we are getting so far off from Commanders, can any of you space cadets tell
me why my 1940 John Deere H cranks harder today that it did 30 years ago?
I wont peel any bananas for the correct answer.
dan
69U
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2007
From: "JTAddington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: FW:
That says it about as clear as it can be said.
Jim A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON
CHEVAILLIER
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:33 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW:
_____
From: kaydickson(at)charter.net
brigedaire(at)sbcglobal.net; BILLYM248(at)aol.com; mocardona(at)hotmail.com;
kamala(at)msn.com; allieslaughter(at)hotmail.com
Subject: Fw:
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:29:23 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: R. L. <mailto:r.dowdell(at)sbcglobal.net> DOWDELL
almcc1(at)swbell.net ; bsherw4928(at)sbcglobal.net ; Doyle
Beavers ; catzed(at)yahoo.com ;
claudewhitley(at)yahoo.com ; don(at)thecottingamecompany.com ; gacfw(at)sbcglobal.net
; gsi(at)flash.net ; Hannah Maxwell ;
irenecannon(at)tx.rr.com ; jackw5lue(at)webtv.net ; jamiparis910(at)sbcglobal.net ;
jcmurray2(at)mindspring.com ; JVanBuskirk(at)msn.com ; jwhitley(at)sbcglobal.net ;
kaydickson(at)charter.net ; wb5dmq(at)charter.net ; whflint(at)sbcglobal.net ;
whitley(at)quadralay.com ; wlnix(at)our-town.com ; zdowdell
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:21 PM
>From a friend.
Subject: Looking Back
Subject: Interesting insights
One of the best points of view that I have heard on the current political
situation concerning the war on terror.
"You ain't gonna like losing." Unfortunately, Author unknown
President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But the
mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq . Bush's mistake came in
his
belief that this country is the same one his father fought for in WW2. It
is not.
Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression. The country was
steeled by the hardship of that depression, but they still believed
fervently
in this country. They knew that the people had elected their leaders, so it
was the people's duty to back those leaders.
Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together, rallied behind,
and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted for them or not or
whether the war was going badly or not.
And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as great as it is
today. Often there were more casualties in one day in WW2 than we have had
in the
entire Iraq war. But that did not matter. The people stuck with the
President
because it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their differences
in WW2 and worked together to win that war.
Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old pitched in. Small
children pulled little wagons around to gather scrap metal for the war
effort.
Grade school students saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to
help the effort.
Men who were too old or medically 4F lied about their age or condition
trying their best to join the military. Women doubled their work to keep
things
going at home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap, to
butter
was imposed, yet there was very little complaining.
You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the President.
Interestingly enough in those days there were no fat cat actors and
entertainers
who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and
complain to them about our President. Instead, they made upbeat films and
entertained our troops to help the troops' morale. And a bunch even
enlisted!
And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the day off with a
Pledge of Allegiance and with prayers for our country and our troops!
Back then, no newspaper would have dared point out certain weak spots in
our
cities where bombs could be set off to cause the maximum damage. No
newspaper would have dared complain about what we were doing to catch
spies.
A newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it had complained
that German or Japanese soldiers were being 'tortured' by being forced to
wear
women's underwear, or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being
scared
by a dog or did not have air conditioning.
There were a lot of things different back then. We were not subjected to a
constant bombardment of pornography, perversion and promiscuity in movies
or
on radio. We did not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and armed
gangs
roaming our streets.
No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He
made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude
of
our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our fathers
fought so dearly to preserve.
It is not the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom and Gomorrah
and
the Land of Oz. We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our attitude
changed when we found out that defending our country would actually require
some sacrifices.
We are in great danger. The terrorists are fanatic Muslims. They believe
that it is okay, even their duty, to kill anyone who will not convert to
Islam.
It has been estimated that about one-third or over three hundred million
Muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists cause...Hitler and Tojo combined
did
not have nearly that many potential recruits.
So...we either win it - or lose it - and you ain't gonna like losing.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the Mall.
_____
9/2007 7:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW:
Date: Nov 15, 2007
Very well said. And what will the people do when the foreign cultures impose
restrictions on our liberty? Reverse our inalienable rights?
It's not going to be pretty unless we stop them NOW at the ballot box.
Nico
www.faithmugs.com <http://www.faithmugs.com/>
Subject: Looking Back
Subject: Interesting insights
One of the best points of view that I have heard on the current political
situation concerning the war on terror.
"You ain't gonna like losing." Unfortunately, Author unknown
President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But the
mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq . Bush's mistake came in
his
belief that this country is the same one his father fought for in WW2. It
is not.
Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression. The country was
steeled by the hardship of that depression, but they still believed
fervently
in this country. They knew that the people had elected their leaders, so it
was the people's duty to back those leaders.
Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together, rallied behind,
and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted for them or not or
whether the war was going badly or not.
And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as great as it is
today. Often there were more casualties in one day in WW2 than we have had
in the
entire Iraq war. But that did not matter. The people stuck with the
President
because it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their differences
in WW2 and worked together to win that war.
Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old pitched in. Small
children pulled little wagons around to gather scrap metal for the war
effort.
Grade school students saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to
help the effort.
Men who were too old or medically 4F lied about their age or condition
trying their best to join the military. Women doubled their work to keep
things
going at home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap, to
butter
was imposed, yet there was very little complaining.
You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the President.
Interestingly enough in those days there were no fat cat actors and
entertainers
who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and
complain to them about our President. Instead, they made upbeat films and
entertained our troops to help the troops' morale. And a bunch even
enlisted!
And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the day off with a
Pledge of Allegiance and with prayers for our country and our troops!
Back then, no newspaper would have dared point out certain weak spots in
our
cities where bombs could be set off to cause the maximum damage. No
newspaper would have dared complain about what we were doing to catch
spies.
A newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it had complained
that German or Japanese soldiers were being 'tortured' by being forced to
wear
women's underwear, or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being
scared
by a dog or did not have air conditioning.
There were a lot of things different back then. We were not subjected to a
constant bombardment of pornography, perversion and promiscuity in movies
or
on radio. We did not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and armed
gangs
roaming our streets.
No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He
made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude
of
our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our fathers
fought so dearly to preserve.
It is not the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom and Gomorrah
and
the Land of Oz. We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our attitude
changed when we found out that defending our country would actually require
some sacrifices.
We are in great danger. The terrorists are fanatic Muslims. They believe
that it is okay, even their duty, to kill anyone who will not convert to
Islam.
It has been estimated that about one-third or over three hundred million
Muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists cause...Hitler and Tojo combined
did
not have nearly that many potential recruits.
So...we either win it - or lose it - and you ain't gonna like losing.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the Mall.
_____
9/2007 7:27 AM
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: FW:
Date: Nov 16, 2007
I'm trying to find some common ground. Maybe there isn't any and its
stupid to try.
The country (and the world) gave the administration the support spoken
about in the piece when we went into Afghanistan. Many people believe
that this administration has been inept. The piece forwarded below
speaks of sacrifice. It was the administration itself that told everyone
to go shopping a couple years back. If this is the central struggle of
our time, why isn't there a draft? Why aren't we actually sacrificing
anything? Tax cuts while we dump 2 trillion in a rat hole? How about at
least a gasoline tax to help pay for this and slow down consumption of a
resource that has all our money going to the mideast in the first place.
Is it my patriotic duty to stand by and watch while a grossly
incompetent administration bungles one job after another, and then hands
medals to the bunglers?
Why are Christians making light of torture? I don't understand this.
Weren't we the good guys? Wasn't that central to what really did make us
better? Do unto others.......
I find it disappointing when one side claims to have all the facts, and
alarming when that side starts using language suggesting the other side
is guilty of treason. When either 'side' acts as if they have the right
to ignore the other, especially after gaining the slimmest of
majorities, they are acting contrary to principles the nation was
founded on. A 51% majority is not a mandate. The other 49% of the
population is not going to go away, or be murdered, or perhaps even
radically change their minds. The country is a mixture of very different
ideas and religions, all working toward some common good. With the
slimmest of majorities this administration has moved aggressively in an
attempt to solidify the power of one party in an effort to build a
lasting majority. Now I would guess if you were a member of that
majority, you might approve. But is that how this democracy is supposed
to work?
This administration has manipulated the population's patriotism in an
attempt to rally support to a neocon agenda that many believe is
radical. After 911, Bush had the support of the entire country in his
prosecution of the 'war' on terror. But many people believe he detoured
from that battle in two important ways. First, he seemed to use 911 as
an excuse to get suckered into the neocon fantasy of using American
military might to reshape the world. Second, many believe this effort
was prosecuted in a grossly incompetent manner.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW:
Very well said. And what will the people do when the foreign cultures
impose restrictions on our liberty? Reverse our inalienable rights?
It's not going to be pretty unless we stop them NOW at the ballot box.
Nico
www.faithmugs.com
Subject: Looking Back
Subject: Interesting insights
One of the best points of view that I have heard on the current
political
situation concerning the war on terror.
"You ain't gonna like losing." Unfortunately, Author unknown
President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But
the
mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq . Bush's mistake
came in his
belief that this country is the same one his father fought for in
WW2. It is not.
Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression. The
country was
steeled by the hardship of that depression, but they still believed
fervently
in this country. They knew that the people had elected their leaders,
so it
was the people's duty to back those leaders.
Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together, rallied
behind,
and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted for them or not
or
whether the war was going badly or not.
And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as great as it
is
today. Often there were more casualties in one day in WW2 than we
have had in the
entire Iraq war. But that did not matter. The people stuck with the
President
because it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their
differences
in WW2 and worked together to win that war.
Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old pitched in.
Small
children pulled little wagons around to gather scrap metal for the
war effort.
Grade school students saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds
to
help the effort.
Men who were too old or medically 4F lied about their age or
condition
trying their best to join the military. Women doubled their work to
keep things
going at home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap,
to butter
was imposed, yet there was very little complaining.
You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the
President.
Interestingly enough in those days there were no fat cat actors and
entertainers
who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and
complain to them about our President. Instead, they made upbeat films
and
entertained our troops to help the troops' morale. And a bunch even
enlisted!
And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the day off
with a
Pledge of Allegiance and with prayers for our country and our troops!
Back then, no newspaper would have dared point out certain weak spots
in our
cities where bombs could be set off to cause the maximum damage. No
newspaper would have dared complain about what we were doing to catch
spies.
A newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it had
complained
that German or Japanese soldiers were being 'tortured' by being
forced to wear
women's underwear, or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being
scared
by a dog or did not have air conditioning.
There were a lot of things different back then. We were not subjected
to a
constant bombardment of pornography, perversion and promiscuity in
movies or
on radio. We did not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and
armed gangs
roaming our streets.
No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of
terrorism. He
made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and
fortitude of
our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our
fathers
fought so dearly to preserve.
It is not the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom and
Gomorrah and
the Land of Oz. We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our
attitude
changed when we found out that defending our country would actually
require
some sacrifices.
We are in great danger. The terrorists are fanatic Muslims. They
believe
that it is okay, even their duty, to kill anyone who will not convert
to Islam.
It has been estimated that about one-third or over three hundred
million
Muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists cause...Hitler and Tojo
combined did
not have nearly that many potential recruits.
So...we either win it - or lose it - and you ain't gonna like losing.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the
Mall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
9/2007 7:27 AM
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
com
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C
ommander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: No Title
From: "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2007
> This administration has manipulated the population's patriotism in an attempt
to rally support to a neocon agenda that many believe is radical. After 911,
Bush had the support of the entire country in his prosecution of the 'war' on
terror. But many people believe he detoured from that battle in two important
ways. First, he seemed to use 911 as an excuse to get suckered into the neocon
fantasy of using American military might to reshape the world. Second, many believe
this effort was prosecuted in a grossly incompetent manner.
>
> Steve
>
Steve,
You need to pull your head out of your ass. Either that or move to San Francisco
and run for office so you can surround youself with others who believe the crap
you are spouting.
My mind is boggled by people who think that water boarding, pissing on the koran,
and showing nudie pictures to terrorists is torture yet these same people do
not blink when a muslim terrorist cuts off an Americans head and films it. Do
you actually believe one can pick up a fresh dog turd by the clean end.
Wake the Fu*k up.
Those people want to dominate us or want us dead there is no common ground. There
are no moderate muslims. They all want to see the end of Western Civilization.
If you think we can talk them into behaving or assimilate them into world
harmony you are nuttier than I can imagine. They ain't gonna stop until we kill
enough of them or destroy enough of their infrastructure so that they have to
spend every waking moment working just to eat.
You want common ground?
Write to Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Schumer, Hilary, Obama and tell them to spend their
time pasing laws that..
Stop internet spammers
Compel cell phone companies to treat customers like human beings Torture is dealing
with them
Punish the airlines when they cancel flights or otherwise crap on travellers
Make congressmen and senators join medicare and social security like the rest of
us and eliminate their golden retirement and healthcare.
Make it so a young male muslim is as likely to get frisked at an airport as a fat
old white guy like me.
Make it so sleazy greedy lawyers cannot sue for ridiculous amounts over ridiculous
or non existent issues.
In short why don't you and the other liberals do something to make our lives better
instead of spending all of your conscious efforts on Bush bashing. On 2 occasions
we selected him through a constitutional process because he was the BEST
OF THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE.
If you think Hilary or Obama are the answer you truly are crazy.
A draft? sacrifice? Let me tell you from personal experience that most of the
populace doesn't give a second thought to veterans in and returning from foreign
wars. Yeah there is a lot of lip service but very few really care.
The liberals whining about the deaths of our guys over there really do not care.
It just makes good liberal press. You get to publicly spout your liberal crap
because of veterans. When the muslims take over the only spouting you will be
doing is to allah 5 times a day.
Wake up, when the liberal agenda is fully implemented we will be a nation of sheep
meekly wandering into oblivion and will join the ranks of past world powers
that are now merely socialistic societies sinking closer and closer to oblivion.
Now why don't you stop posting this crap, this is an aviation website. There are
plenty of internet website were you and your liberal buddies can cuddle each
others testicles and feel warm and fuzzy abou your views.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146422#146422
________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: No Title
Date: Nov 16, 2007
oh come on milt tell us what you really think. mason
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: No Title> From: airboss(at)excaliburaviation.co
m> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:51:38 -0800> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com>
.com>> > > > This administration has manipulated the population's patriotis
m in an attempt to rally support to a neocon agenda that many believe is ra
dical. After 911, Bush had the support of the entire country in his prosecu
tion of the 'war' on terror. But many people believe he detoured from that
battle in two important ways. First, he seemed to use 911 as an excuse to g
et suckered into the neocon fantasy of using American military might to res
hape the world. Second, many believe this effort was prosecuted in a grossl
y incompetent manner. > > > > Steve > > > > > Steve,> > You need to pull yo
ur head out of your ass. Either that or move to San Francisco and run for o
ffice so you can surround youself with others who believe the crap you are
spouting.> > My mind is boggled by people who think that water boarding, pi
ssing on the koran, and showing nudie pictures to terrorists is torture yet
these same people do not blink when a muslim terrorist cuts off an America
ns head and films it. Do you actually believe one can pick up a fresh dog t
urd by the clean end.> > Wake the Fu*k up.> > Those people want to dominate
us or want us dead there is no common ground. There are no moderate muslim
s. They all want to see the end of Western Civilization. If you think we ca
n talk them into behaving or assimilate them into world harmony you are nut
tier than I can imagine. They ain't gonna stop until we kill enough of them
or destroy enough of their infrastructure so that they have to spend every
waking moment working just to eat.> > > You want common ground?> > Write t
o Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Schumer, Hilary, Obama and tell them to spend their
time pasing laws that..> > Stop internet spammers> > Compel cell phone comp
anies to treat customers like human beings Torture is dealing with them> >
Punish the airlines when they cancel flights or otherwise crap on traveller
s> > Make congressmen and senators join medicare and social security like t
he rest of us and eliminate their golden retirement and healthcare.> > Make
it so a young male muslim is as likely to get frisked at an airport as a f
at old white guy like me.> > Make it so sleazy greedy lawyers cannot sue fo
r ridiculous amounts over ridiculous or non existent issues.> > In short wh
y don't you and the other liberals do something to make our lives better in
stead of spending all of your conscious efforts on Bush bashing. On 2 occas
ions we selected him through a constitutional process because he was the BE
ST OF THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE.> > If you think Hilary or Obama are the answer
you truly are crazy.> > A draft? sacrifice? Let me tell you from personal
experience that most of the populace doesn't give a second thought to veter
ans in and returning from foreign wars. Yeah there is a lot of lip service
but very few really care.> > The liberals whining about the deaths of our g
uys over there really do not care. It just makes good liberal press. You ge
t to publicly spout your liberal crap because of veterans. When the muslims
take over the only spouting you will be doing is to allah 5 times a day.>
> Wake up, when the liberal agenda is fully implemented we will be a nation
of sheep meekly wandering into oblivion and will join the ranks of past wo
rld powers that are now merely socialistic societies sinking closer and clo
ser to oblivion.> > Now why don't you stop posting this crap, this is an av
iation website. There are plenty of internet website were you and your libe
ral buddies can cuddle each others testicles and feel warm and fuzzy abou y
our views.> > --------> Milt> 2003 F1 Rocket> 2006 Radial Rocket> > > > > R
ead this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
==============> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com>
Subject: Re: No Title
Date: Nov 16, 2007
Right on Milt!!!
Steve; if you're interested in the history of what happens when the
attitudes you espouse prevail, look to Neville Chamberlain as your mentor:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/chamberlain_arthur_neville.sht
ml
His policy of appeasement towards Adolf Hitler culminated in the Munich
Agreement in which Britain and France accepted that the Czech region of the
Sudetenland should be ceded to Germany. Chamberlain left Munich believing
that by appeasing Hitler he had assured 'peace for our time'. However, in
March 1939 Hitler annexed the rest of the Czech lands of Bohemia and
Moravia, with Slovakia becoming a puppet state of Germany. Five months later
in September 1939 Hitler's forces invaded Poland. Chamberlain responded with
a British declaration of war on Germany.
Appeasment doesn't work, it didn't work with Hitler and it won't work with
Muslim extermeists, in fact they are much worse than Hitler because unlike
Hitler, they believe it a great honor to die while killing us infidels.
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON
CHEVAILLIER
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 7:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: No Title
oh come on milt tell us what you really think. mason
_____
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: No Title
> From: airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com
> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:51:38 -0800
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> > This administration has manipulated the population's patriotism in an
attempt to rally support to a neocon agenda that many believe is radical.
After 911, Bush had the support of the entire country in his prosecution of
the 'war' on terror. But many people believe he detoured from that battle in
two important ways. First, he seemed to use 911 as an excuse to get suckered
into the neocon fantasy of using American military might to reshape the
world. Second, many believe this effort was prosecuted in a grossly
incompetent manner.
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
>
> Steve,
>
> You need to pull your head out of your ass. Either that or move to San
Francisco and run for office so you can surround youself with others who
believe the crap you are spouting.
>
> My mind is boggled by people who think that water boarding, pissing on the
koran, and showing nudie pictures to terrorists is torture yet these same
people do not blink when a muslim terrorist cuts off an Americans head and
films it. Do you actually believe one can pick up a fresh dog turd by the
clean end.
>
> Wake the Fu*k up.
>
> Those people want to dominate us or want us dead there is no common
ground. There are no moderate muslims. They all want to see the end of
Western Civilization. If you think we can talk them into behaving or
assimilate them into world harmony you are nuttier than I can imagine. They
ain't gonna stop until we kill enough of them or destroy enough of their
infrastructure so that they have to spend every waking moment working just
to eat.
>
>
> You want common ground?
>
> Write to Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Schumer, Hilary, Obama and tell them to
spend their time pasing laws that..
>
> Stop internet spammers
>
> Compel cell phone companies to treat customers like human beings Torture
is dealing with them
>
> Punish the airlines when they cancel flights or otherwise crap on
travellers
>
> Make congressmen and senators join medicare and social security like the
rest of us and eliminate their golden retirement and healthcare.
>
> Make it so a young male muslim is as likely to get frisked at an airport
as a fat old white guy like me.
>
> Make it so sleazy greedy lawyers cannot sue for ridiculous amounts over
ridiculous or non existent issues.
>
> In short why don't you and the other liberals do something to make our
lives better instead of spending all of your conscious efforts on Bush
bashing. On 2 occasions we selected him through a constitutional process
because he was the BEST OF THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE.
>
> If you think Hilary or Obama are the answer you truly are crazy.
>
> A draft? sacrifice? Let me tell you from personal experience that most of
the populace doesn't give a second thought to veterans in and returning from
foreign wars. Yeah there is a lot of lip service but very few really care.
>
> The liberals whining about the deaths of our guys over there really do not
care. It just makes good liberal press. You get to publicly spout your
liberal crap because of veterans. When the muslims take over the only
spouting you will be doing is to allah 5 times a day.
>
> Wake up, when the liberal agenda is fully implemented we will be a nation
of sheep meekly wandering into oblivion and will join the ranks of past
world powers that are now merely socialistic societies sinking closer and
closer to oblivion.
>
> Now why don't you stop posting this crap, this is an aviation website.
There are plenty of internet website were you and your liberal buddies can
cuddle each others testicles and feel warm and fuzzy abou your views.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146422#146422
>
>
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: No Title
Date: Nov 16, 2007
What a diplomat.
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:52 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: No Title
> This administration has manipulated the population's patriotism in an
attempt to rally support to a neocon agenda that many believe is radical.
After 911, Bush had the support of the entire country in his prosecution of
the 'war' on terror. But many people believe he detoured from that battle in
two important ways. First, he seemed to use 911 as an excuse to get suckered
into the neocon fantasy of using American military might to reshape the
world. Second, many believe this effort was prosecuted in a grossly
incompetent manner.
>
> Steve
>
Steve,
You need to pull your head out of your ass. Either that or move to San
Francisco and run for office so you can surround youself with others who
believe the crap you are spouting.
My mind is boggled by people who think that water boarding, pissing on the
koran, and showing nudie pictures to terrorists is torture yet these same
people do not blink when a muslim terrorist cuts off an Americans head and
films it. Do you actually believe one can pick up a fresh dog turd by the
clean end.
Wake the Fu*k up.
Those people want to dominate us or want us dead there is no common ground.
There are no moderate muslims. They all want to see the end of Western
Civilization. If you think we can talk them into behaving or assimilate them
into world harmony you are nuttier than I can imagine. They ain't gonna stop
until we kill enough of them or destroy enough of their infrastructure so
that they have to spend every waking moment working just to eat.
You want common ground?
Write to Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Schumer, Hilary, Obama and tell them to spend
their time pasing laws that..
Stop internet spammers
Compel cell phone companies to treat customers like human beings Torture is
dealing with them
Punish the airlines when they cancel flights or otherwise crap on travellers
Make congressmen and senators join medicare and social security like the
rest of us and eliminate their golden retirement and healthcare.
Make it so a young male muslim is as likely to get frisked at an airport as
a fat old white guy like me.
Make it so sleazy greedy lawyers cannot sue for ridiculous amounts over
ridiculous or non existent issues.
In short why don't you and the other liberals do something to make our lives
better instead of spending all of your conscious efforts on Bush bashing. On
2 occasions we selected him through a constitutional process because he was
the BEST OF THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE.
If you think Hilary or Obama are the answer you truly are crazy.
A draft? sacrifice? Let me tell you from personal experience that most of
the populace doesn't give a second thought to veterans in and returning from
foreign wars. Yeah there is a lot of lip service but very few really care.
The liberals whining about the deaths of our guys over there really do not
care. It just makes good liberal press. You get to publicly spout your
liberal crap because of veterans. When the muslims take over the only
spouting you will be doing is to allah 5 times a day.
Wake up, when the liberal agenda is fully implemented we will be a nation of
sheep meekly wandering into oblivion and will join the ranks of past world
powers that are now merely socialistic societies sinking closer and closer
to oblivion.
Now why don't you stop posting this crap, this is an aviation website. There
are plenty of internet website were you and your liberal buddies can cuddle
each others testicles and feel warm and fuzzy abou your views.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146422#146422
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: enough?
Date: Nov 16, 2007
I apologize to the group for having posting on this subject again. I had
determined not to, but had the mistaken notion that you could clear up
the perception you were a raving liberal out to destroy the country if
you liked Joe Biden, hated Hillary, thought the Iraq war a bad idea, and
don't think we should mistreat prisoners (no matter how deeply and
painfully affected they may personally be by acts of barbarism on one's
countrymen.)
Can we just leave it that I'm a fool, a traitor, or a terrorist, and
just move on? I've learned. I'll keep my mouth shut.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2007
From: "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com>
Subject: Re: No Title
amen - get back to commanders..
bobf
500B owner.
On 11/16/07, N395V wrote:
>
> airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
>
>
> > This administration has manipulated the population's patriotism in an
> attempt to rally support to a neocon agenda that many believe is radical.
> After 911, Bush had the support of the entire country in his prosecution of
> the 'war' on terror. But many people believe he detoured from that battle in
> two important ways. First, he seemed to use 911 as an excuse to get suckered
> into the neocon fantasy of using American military might to reshape the
> world. Second, many believe this effort was prosecuted in a grossly
> incompetent manner.
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
>
> Steve,
>
> You need to pull your head out of your ass. Either that or move to San
> Francisco and run for office so you can surround youself with others who
> believe the crap you are spouting.
>
> My mind is boggled by people who think that water boarding, pissing on the
> koran, and showing nudie pictures to terrorists is torture yet these same
> people do not blink when a muslim terrorist cuts off an Americans head and
> films it. Do you actually believe one can pick up a fresh dog turd by the
> clean end.
>
> Wake the Fu*k up.
>
> Those people want to dominate us or want us dead there is no common
> ground. There are no moderate muslims. They all want to see the end of
> Western Civilization. If you think we can talk them into behaving or
> assimilate them into world harmony you are nuttier than I can imagine. They
> ain't gonna stop until we kill enough of them or destroy enough of their
> infrastructure so that they have to spend every waking moment working just
> to eat.
>
>
> You want common ground?
>
> Write to Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Schumer, Hilary, Obama and tell them to
> spend their time pasing laws that..
>
> Stop internet spammers
>
> Compel cell phone companies to treat customers like human beings Torture
> is dealing with them
>
> Punish the airlines when they cancel flights or otherwise crap on
> travellers
>
> Make congressmen and senators join medicare and social security like the
> rest of us and eliminate their golden retirement and healthcare.
>
> Make it so a young male muslim is as likely to get frisked at an airport
> as a fat old white guy like me.
>
> Make it so sleazy greedy lawyers cannot sue for ridiculous amounts over
> ridiculous or non existent issues.
>
> In short why don't you and the other liberals do something to make our
> lives better instead of spending all of your conscious efforts on Bush
> bashing. On 2 occasions we selected him through a constitutional process
> because he was the BEST OF THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE.
>
> If you think Hilary or Obama are the answer you truly are crazy.
>
> A draft? sacrifice? Let me tell you from personal experience that most of
> the populace doesn't give a second thought to veterans in and returning from
> foreign wars. Yeah there is a lot of lip service but very few really care.
>
> The liberals whining about the deaths of our guys over there really do not
> care. It just makes good liberal press. You get to publicly spout your
> liberal crap because of veterans. When the muslims take over the only
> spouting you will be doing is to allah 5 times a day.
>
> Wake up, when the liberal agenda is fully implemented we will be a nation
> of sheep meekly wandering into oblivion and will join the ranks of past
> world powers that are now merely socialistic societies sinking closer and
> closer to oblivion.
>
> Now why don't you stop posting this crap, this is an aviation website.
> There are plenty of internet website were you and your liberal buddies can
> cuddle each others testicles and feel warm and fuzzy abou your views.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146422#146422
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Swede Ralston
Date: Nov 16, 2007
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
I'm sorry to report that we lost Swede Ralston this week.? Many of you will remember meeting Swede at the Hillsboro Fly-In.? He spent many hours in Commanders and was a great pilot and all around person.? This website details some of his aviation history:? http://www.icasfoundation.org/hall_fame/2002/hf_ralston.htm
Godspeed Swede
~jb
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Swede Ralston
Date: Nov 16, 2007
I remember meeting Swede at the TCFG fly-in in Hillsboro.
They showed a movie of him landing a 500B on an uphill strip about
500' long.
He also turned it around and went down and off again.
Amazing flying skills.
He has a new set of wings.
Tylor Hall
On Nov 16, 2007, at 1:01 PM, yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> I'm sorry to report that we lost Swede Ralston this week. Many of
> you will remember meeting Swede at the Hillsboro Fly-In. He spent
> many hours in Commanders and was a great pilot and all around
> person. This website details some of his aviation history: http://www.icasfoundation.org/hall_fame/2002/hf_ralston.htm
>
> Godspeed Swede
>
> ~jb
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Swede Ralston
Date: Nov 16, 2007
Hello All,
That's very sad news. I indeed had the pleasure to meet Swede at the
Hillsboro Fly-In.
He had just got into his car to drive home when I asked if he could
spare me five minutes.
45 minutes later, he was still chatting away!
Obviously a great character and one who will undoubtedly be sorely
missed by all who knew him.
I'm sure Capt JimBob will pass on our collective condolences to all his
family and friends.
Best regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:01 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Swede Ralston
I'm sorry to report that we lost Swede Ralston this week. Many of you
will remember meeting Swede at the Hillsboro Fly-In. He spent many
hours in Commanders and was a great pilot and all around person. This
website details some of his aviation history:
http://www.icasfoundation.org/hall_fame/2002/hf_ralston.htm
Godspeed Swede
~jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Swede Ralston
From: "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2007
It is not often you get to meet withand talk to an aviation legend.
Swede was kind enough to sit in my 685 with me and teach me a million things I
did not know.
As mentioned he has new wings now and certainly has flown to a better place.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146508#146508
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2007
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Swede Ralston
Jim,
I was very sorry to read this email. I really enjoyed meeting Swede and
hearing firsthand his aviation stories. He made a big impact on me when
I met him in 2000.
/John
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> I'm sorry to report that we lost Swede Ralston this week. Many of you
> will remember meeting Swede at the Hillsboro Fly-In. He spent many
> hours in Commanders and was a great pilot and all around person. This
> website details some of his aviation history:
> http://www.icasfoundation.org/hall_fame/2002/hf_ralston.htm
>
> Godspeed Swede
>
> ~jb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! And pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: No Title
From: "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2007
Sorry just had to post this one,,, then back to Commanders
>From the Manitoba Herald (Canada -- a very underground paper):
The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has intensified
in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols to stop the illegal
immigration. The actions of President Bush are prompting the exodus among
left-leaning citizens who fear they'll soon be required to hunt, pray, and agree
with Bill O'Reilly.
Canadian border farmers say it's not uncommon to see dozens of sociology professors,
animal-rights activists and Unitarians crossing their fields at night.
"I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood producer
huddled in the barn," said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield, whose acreage borders
North Dakota . The producer was cold, exhausted and hungry. "He asked me if
I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken." When I said I didn't have
any, he left. Didn't even get a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?"
In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences, but
the liberals scaled them. So he tried installing speakers that blare Rush Limbaugh
across the fields. "Not real effective," he said. "The liberals still got
through, and Rush annoyed the cows so much they wouldn't give milk."
Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals near the
Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons, drive them across the border
and leave them to fend for themselves. "A lot of these people are not prepared
for rugged conditions," an Ontario border patrolman said. "I found one
carload without a drop of drinking water. "They did have a nice little Napa Valley
cabernet, though."
When liberals are caught, they're sent back across the border, often wailing loudly
that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors have been circulating
about the Bush administration establishing re-education camps in which liberals
will be forced to drink domestic beer and watch NASCAR races.
In recent days, liberals have turned to ometimes-ingenious ways of crossing the
border. Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on bus trips to buy cheap
Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen young vegans disguised
in powdered wigs, Canadian immigration authorities began stopping buses and
quizzing the supposed senior-citizen passengers on Perry Como and Rosemary Clooney
hits to prove they were alive in the '50's.
"If they can't identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we get
suspicious about their age," an official said.
Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating an organic-broccoli
shortage and renting all the good Susan Sarandon movies. "I feel
sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just can't support them,"
an Ottawa resident said. "How many art-history majors does one country need?
The illegals are being deported back to the US in old Twin Commanders operated
by the conservative wing of TCFG
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146858#146858
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: No Title
Date: Nov 18, 2007
Milt,
I learned a lot from your post. Domestic beer is now pretty good, but I
never knew Nascar was a race. I'd rather watch a blender go round and round
and round and zzzzzz..........
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: No Title
>
>
> Sorry just had to post this one,,, then back to Commanders
>
>>From the Manitoba Herald (Canada -- a very underground paper):
>
> The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has
> intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols to stop
> the illegal immigration. The actions of President Bush are prompting the
> exodus among left-leaning citizens who fear they'll soon be required to
> hunt, pray, and agree with Bill O'Reilly.
>
> Canadian border farmers say it's not uncommon to see dozens of sociology
> professors, animal-rights activists and Unitarians crossing their fields
> at night.
>
> "I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood
> producer huddled in the barn," said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield, whose
> acreage borders North Dakota . The producer was cold, exhausted and
> hungry. "He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range
> chicken." When I said I didn't have any, he left. Didn't even get a chance
> to show him my screenplay, eh?"
>
> In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences,
> but the liberals scaled them. So he tried installing speakers that blare
> Rush Limbaugh across the fields. "Not real effective," he said. "The
> liberals still got through, and Rush annoyed the cows so much they
> wouldn't give milk."
>
> Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals
> near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons, drive them
> across the border and leave them to fend for themselves. "A lot of these
> people are not prepared for rugged conditions," an Ontario border
> patrolman said. "I found one carload without a drop of drinking water.
> "They did have a nice little Napa Valley cabernet, though."
>
> When liberals are caught, they're sent back across the border, often
> wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors have
> been circulating about the Bush administration establishing re-education
> camps in which liberals will be forced to drink domestic beer and watch
> NASCAR races.
>
> In recent days, liberals have turned to ometimes-ingenious ways of
> crossing the border. Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on bus
> trips to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a
> half-dozen young vegans disguised in powdered wigs, Canadian immigration
> authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior-citizen
> passengers on Perry Como and Rosemary Clooney hits to prove they were
> alive in the '50's.
>
> "If they can't identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we
> get suspicious about their age," an official said.
>
> Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating
> an organic-broccoli shortage and renting all the good Susan Sarandon
> movies. "I feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just
> can't support them," an Ottawa resident said. "How many art-history majors
> does one country need?
>
> The illegals are being deported back to the US in old Twin Commanders
> operated by the conservative wing of TCFG
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146858#146858
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: No Title
Date: Nov 18, 2007
Har har har, funny.
Tom F.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:07 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: No Title
>
>
> Sorry just had to post this one,,, then back to Commanders
>
>>From the Manitoba Herald (Canada -- a very underground paper):
>
> The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has
> intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols to stop
> the illegal immigration. The actions of President Bush are prompting the
> exodus among left-leaning citizens who fear they'll soon be required to
> hunt, pray, and agree with Bill O'Reilly.
>
> Canadian border farmers say it's not uncommon to see dozens of sociology
> professors, animal-rights activists and Unitarians crossing their fields
> at night.
>
> "I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood
> producer huddled in the barn," said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield, whose
> acreage borders North Dakota . The producer was cold, exhausted and
> hungry. "He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range
> chicken." When I said I didn't have any, he left. Didn't even get a chance
> to show him my screenplay, eh?"
>
> In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences,
> but the liberals scaled them. So he tried installing speakers that blare
> Rush Limbaugh across the fields. "Not real effective," he said. "The
> liberals still got through, and Rush annoyed the cows so much they
> wouldn't give milk."
>
> Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals
> near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons, drive them
> across the border and leave them to fend for themselves. "A lot of these
> people are not prepared for rugged conditions," an Ontario border
> patrolman said. "I found one carload without a drop of drinking water.
> "They did have a nice little Napa Valley cabernet, though."
>
> When liberals are caught, they're sent back across the border, often
> wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors have
> been circulating about the Bush administration establishing re-education
> camps in which liberals will be forced to drink domestic beer and watch
> NASCAR races.
>
> In recent days, liberals have turned to ometimes-ingenious ways of
> crossing the border. Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on bus
> trips to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a
> half-dozen young vegans disguised in powdered wigs, Canadian immigration
> authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior-citizen
> passengers on Perry Como and Rosemary Clooney hits to prove they were
> alive in the '50's.
>
> "If they can't identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we
> get suspicious about their age," an official said.
>
> Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating
> an organic-broccoli shortage and renting all the good Susan Sarandon
> movies. "I feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just
> can't support them," an Ottawa resident said. "How many art-history majors
> does one country need?
>
> The illegals are being deported back to the US in old Twin Commanders
> operated by the conservative wing of TCFG
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146858#146858
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Nov 19, 2007
From: kaydickson(at)charter.netTo: MMPurnell(at)aol.com; lxlaw89(at)yahoo.com; Ahdow
dell(at)sbcglobal.net; brigedaire(at)sbcglobal.net; BILLYM248(at)aol.com; mocardona@
hotmail.com; kamala(at)msn.com; allieslaughter(at)hotmail.com; CAROBAUCRUZ@SBCGLO
BAL.NET; jrasboth(at)aol.comSubject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!Date: Mon, 19 Nov 200
----- Original Message -----
From: JWH
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:39 AM
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Subject: SORRY HE'S GONE!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." - Ronald Reagan
=EF "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the go
vernment and I'm here to help. - Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's
just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan "Of the four wa
rs in my lifetime none came about because the U.S. Was too strong. - Ronald
Reagan "I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandment's would h
ave looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S. Congress."- Ronald R
eagan "The taxpayer: That's someone who works for the federal government b
ut doesn't have to take the civil service examination. - Ronald Reagan"Gove
rnment is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end a
nd no sense of responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan"The nearest th
ing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a government program.
" - Ronald Reagan"I've laid down the law, though, to everyone from now on a
bout anything that happens: no matter what time it is, wake me, even if it'
s in the middle of a Cabinet meeting." - Ronald Reagan "It has been said th
at politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a
striking resemblance to the first." - Ronald Reagan "Government's view of
the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it.
If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -
Ronald Reagan "Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are m
any rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." - Ronal
d Reagan "No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so form
idable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nati
on gone under." - Ronald Reagan IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE FORWARD.....IF NOT JUS
T DELETE.
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Nov 19, 2007
There were some things to quarrel with Reagan about, but he ended up
pretty good. A genuine conservative and I believe a decent man. While
totally different, a close second to President Carter.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: kaydickson(at)charter.net
To: MMPurnell(at)aol.com; lxlaw89(at)yahoo.com; Ahdowdell(at)sbcglobal.net;
brigedaire(at)sbcglobal.net; BILLYM248(at)aol.com; mocardona(at)hotmail.com;
kamala(at)msn.com; allieslaughter(at)hotmail.com; CAROBAUCRUZ(at)SBCGLOBAL.NET;
jrasboth(at)aol.com
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:09:11 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: JWH
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:39 AM
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Subject: SORRY HE'S GONE!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." -
Ronald Reagan
=EF "The most terrifying words in the English language are:
I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
- Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're
ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald
Reagan
"Of the four wars in my lifetime none came about because the
U.S. Was too strong. - Ronald Reagan
"I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandment's
would have looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S.
Congress."- Ronald Reagan
"The taxpayer: That's someone who works for the federal
government but doesn't have to take the civil service examination. -
Ronald Reagan
"Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big
appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other." -
Ronald Reagan
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this
earth is a government program." - Ronald Reagan
"I've laid down the law, though, to everyone from now on about
anything that happens: no matter what time it is, wake me, even if it's
in the middle of a Cabinet meeting." - Ronald Reagan
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest
profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the
first." - Ronald Reagan
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few
short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And
if it stops moving, subsidize it." - Ronald Reagan
"Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are
many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." -
Ronald Reagan
"No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so
formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald
Reagan
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we
will be a nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan
IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE FORWARD.....IF NOT JUST DELETE.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
9/2007 7:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Survey day
Date: Nov 19, 2007
What a spectacular day in New England to be flying. I know there are
some non-Commander owners on the list. It's too bad they could not have
been along today. Pre-heat at 7:15 to get launched in time for good
sunlight on the first job site 250 miles away. The weather was a survey
pilot's dream. Cyrstal clear, and almost no wind. Mount Washington and
the Presidentials in New Hampshire had their tops covered with snow.
Very unusual to be skimming 1000 feet over them in smooth air. There
were 4 sites in working areas of the Maine forests. Moose country.
Almost no wind, and no crab. Had budgeted 2 days effort and we got it
done in one with a half hour of gas and sunlight left. A hot cup of
coffee, a fill-up, and shooting the shit with the guys up in
Millinocket. A great place for gas, almost to the Canadian border, with
Mount Katahdin in the background. A nice local old-timer was being
taught to work the pumps. Just had his first airplane ride ever, in a
Citabria.
Don't usually listen to music when flying, I don't need to be
entertained, but this far north there's no point in talking with anyone
and we had some Van Morrison, Lowell George and Little Feat through the
Bose on the way home again through the mountain ranges.
Some maple wood's in the stove, a good glass of wine at hand, and
dinner's in the oven.
A good day to fly.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Survey day
Date: Nov 19, 2007
I can think of some Commander moments like that gorgeous
flying weather, scenery, music in the head phones. Thats what
makes flying our own aircraft so special. Nicely said Steve.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F/N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
<http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Steve W
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Survey day
What a spectacular day in New England to be flying. I know there
are some non-Commander owners on the list. It's too bad they
could not have been along today. Pre-heat at 7:15 to get launched
in time for good sunlight on the first job site 250 miles away.
The weather was a survey pilot's dream. Cyrstal clear, and almost
no wind. Mount Washington and the Presidentials in New Hampshire
had their tops covered with snow. Very unusual to be skimming
1000 feet over them in smooth air. There were 4 sites in working
areas of the Maine forests. Moose country. Almost no wind, and no
crab. Had budgeted 2 days effort and we got it done in one with a
half hour of gas and sunlight left. A hot cup of coffee, a
fill-up, and shooting the shit with the guys up in Millinocket. A
great place for gas, almost to the Canadian border, with Mount
Katahdin in the background. A nice local old-timer was being
taught to work the pumps. Just had his first airplane ride ever,
in a Citabria.
Don't usually listen to music when flying, I don't need to be
entertained, but this far north there's no point in talking with
anyone and we had some Van Morrison, Lowell George and Little
Feat through the Bose on the way home again through the mountain
ranges.
Some maple wood's in the stove, a good glass of wine at hand, and
dinner's in the oven.
A good day to fly.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2007
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Survey day
Steve,
Aren't those just the days that make all the bad days worth it?
Non-aviation people just don't understand.
/John
Steve W wrote:
> What a spectacular day in New England to be flying. I know there are
> some non-Commander owners on the list. It's too bad they could not
> have been along today. Pre-heat at 7:15 to get launched in time for
> good sunlight on the first job site 250 miles away. The weather was a
> survey pilot's dream. Cyrstal clear, and almost no wind. Mount
> Washington and the Presidentials in New Hampshire had their tops
> covered with snow. Very unusual to be skimming 1000 feet over them in
> smooth air. There were 4 sites in working areas of the Maine forests.
> Moose country. Almost no wind, and no crab. Had budgeted 2 days effort
> and we got it done in one with a half hour of gas and sunlight left. A
> hot cup of coffee, a fill-up, and shooting the shit with the guys up
> in Millinocket. A great place for gas, almost to the Canadian border,
> with Mount Katahdin in the background. A nice local old-timer was
> being taught to work the pumps. Just had his first airplane ride ever,
> in a Citabria.
>
> Don't usually listen to music when flying, I don't need to be
> entertained, but this far north there's no point in talking with
> anyone and we had some Van Morrison, Lowell George and Little Feat
> through the Bose on the way home again through the mountain ranges.
>
> Some maple wood's in the stove, a good glass of wine at hand, and
> dinner's in the oven.
>
> A good day to fly.
>
> Steve
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Survey day
Date: Nov 19, 2007
Ditto, Steve, I enjoyed sharing your day. I have many of the same
moments in my Shrike and am at a loss of words to describe them. Thanks
for putting into words what it is like to experience those moments.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Survey day
I can think of some "Commander moments" like that - gorgeous flying
weather, scenery, music in the head phones. That's what makes flying
our own aircraft so special. Nicely said Steve.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F/N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
<http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/>
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Survey day
What a spectacular day in New England to be flying. I know there are
some non-Commander owners on the list. It's too bad they could not have
been along today. Pre-heat at 7:15 to get launched in time for good
sunlight on the first job site 250 miles away. The weather was a survey
pilot's dream. Cyrstal clear, and almost no wind. Mount Washington and
the Presidentials in New Hampshire had their tops covered with snow.
Very unusual to be skimming 1000 feet over them in smooth air. There
were 4 sites in working areas of the Maine forests. Moose country.
Almost no wind, and no crab. Had budgeted 2 days effort and we got it
done in one with a half hour of gas and sunlight left. A hot cup of
coffee, a fill-up, and shooting the shit with the guys up in
Millinocket. A great place for gas, almost to the Canadian border, with
Mount Katahdin in the background. A nice local old-timer was being
taught to work the pumps. Just had his first airplane ride ever, in a
Citabria.
Don't usually listen to music when flying, I don't need to be
entertained, but this far north there's no point in talking with anyone
and we had some Van Morrison, Lowell George and Little Feat through the
Bose on the way home again through the mountain ranges.
Some maple wood's in the stove, a good glass of wine at hand, and
dinner's in the oven.
A good day to fly.
Steve
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
the Contribution link below to find out more about
this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!
List Contribution Web Site:
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Nov 19, 2007
=93a close second to President Carter=94
You mean the guy who gave away the Panama Canal?
You mean the guy who brought us 18% mortgage rates?
You mean the guy who threw the Shaw of Iran under the bus resulting in
Muslim situation we have today?
I guess that was a joke and I missed it, sorry.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
There were some things to quarrel with Reagan about, but he ended up
pretty
good. A genuine conservative and I believe a decent man. While totally
different, a close second to President Carter.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <mailto:kamala(at)msn.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
_____
From: kaydickson(at)charter.net
brigedaire(at)sbcglobal.net; BILLYM248(at)aol.com; mocardona(at)hotmail.com;
kamala(at)msn.com; allieslaughter(at)hotmail.com; CAROBAUCRUZ(at)SBCGLOBAL.NET;
jrasboth(at)aol.com
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:09:11 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: JWH <mailto:judy(at)havener.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:39 AM
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Subject: SORRY HE'S GONE!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." - Ronald
Reagan
=EF "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the
government and I'm here to help.
- Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's
just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan
"Of the four wars in my lifetime none came about because the U.S. Was
too
strong. - Ronald Reagan
"I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandment's would have
looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S. Congress."- Ronald
Reagan
"The taxpayer: That's someone who works for the federal government but
doesn't have to take the civil service examination. - Ronald Reagan
"Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at
one
end and no sense of responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a
government program." - Ronald Reagan
"I've laid down the law, though, to everyone from now on about anything
that
happens: no matter what time it is, wake me, even if it's in the middle
of a
Cabinet meeting." - Ronald Reagan
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have
learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." - Ronald
Reagan
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short
phrases:
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops
moving, subsidize it." - Ronald Reagan
"Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many
rewards, if
you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." - Ronald Reagan
"No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable
as
the will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a
nation
gone under." - Ronald Reagan
IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE FORWARD.....IF NOT JUST DELETE.
_____
9/2007 7:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] Why I Have A Fund Raiser...
Dear Listers,
Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity
to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience
over the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running
a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from
the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run
the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying
banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other
garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years
regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the
non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once
a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over
the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to
be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these
Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments stripped
off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature that
allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can
be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before
they are posted. More recently, I have enabled limited posting of a number of
file formats including pictures and PDFs.
Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List
Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives
go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very
fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly
finding the data you're looking for.
And added just a couple of years ago is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa. The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and other files (http://forums.matronics.com ). Additionally, added recently is the List Wiki that allows members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various aspects of their project for all to share ( http://wiki.matronics.com ).
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since
about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building
RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and
an associated web site that receives over 34,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally,
the List Email system forwarded well over 77,000 postings last year, accounting
for an unbelievable 33,000,000 (yes, that's 33 MILLION) email messages
delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in supporting
a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving
a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_!
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the
quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message,
Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites.
The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a
while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate,
and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com>
Subject: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Jimmy Carter IMO was the worst president of the 20th century; I was
there
for his term trying to make mortgage payments with a 15% interest rate.
I
could go on for some time about all the corn Jimmy cracked, but what=92s
the
use when his mother Lillian said it best:
=93Sometimes when I look at all my children, I say to myself, "Lillian,
you
should have stayed a virgin."
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/lillian_carter/
KV Electric, INC.
Kerry Johnson, President
1139 North 1210 West
St. George, UT 84770
(435) 673-4696 Office
(435) 673-4731 Fax
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
There were some things to quarrel with Reagan about, but he ended up
pretty
good. A genuine conservative and I believe a decent man. While totally
different, a close second to President Carter.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <mailto:kamala(at)msn.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
_____
From: kaydickson(at)charter.net
brigedaire(at)sbcglobal.net; BILLYM248(at)aol.com; mocardona(at)hotmail.com;
kamala(at)msn.com; allieslaughter(at)hotmail.com; CAROBAUCRUZ(at)SBCGLOBAL.NET;
jrasboth(at)aol.com
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:09:11 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: JWH <mailto:judy(at)havener.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:39 AM
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Subject: SORRY HE'S GONE!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." - Ronald
Reagan
=EF "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the
government and I'm here to help.
- Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's
just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan
"Of the four wars in my lifetime none came about because the U.S. Was
too
strong. - Ronald Reagan
"I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandment's would have
looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S. Congress."- Ronald
Reagan
"The taxpayer: That's someone who works for the federal government but
doesn't have to take the civil service examination. - Ronald Reagan
"Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at
one
end and no sense of responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a
government program." - Ronald Reagan
"I've laid down the law, though, to everyone from now on about anything
that
happens: no matter what time it is, wake me, even if it's in the middle
of a
Cabinet meeting." - Ronald Reagan
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have
learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." - Ronald
Reagan
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short
phrases:
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops
moving, subsidize it." - Ronald Reagan
"Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many
rewards, if
you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." - Ronald Reagan
"No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable
as
the will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a
nation
gone under." - Ronald Reagan
IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE FORWARD.....IF NOT JUST DELETE.
_____
9/2007 7:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" <moe(at)rosspistons.com>
Subject: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Steve,
There was a difference between the Carter administration, and the Regan
administration from my personal perspective.
At the end of the Carter administration, I was broke, paying 20%
interest,
and most of my associates were in forclosure.
At the end of the Regan Administration, I was driving a twin engine
airplane, running a top fuel dragster, and was debt free. Mr. Carter
helped
imensly, because most of the competition went broke, and Mr. Regan
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
There were some things to quarrel with Reagan about, but he ended up
pretty
good. A genuine conservative and I believe a decent man. While totally
different, a close second to President Carter.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <mailto:kamala(at)msn.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
_____
From: kaydickson(at)charter.net
brigedaire(at)sbcglobal.net; BILLYM248(at)aol.com; mocardona(at)hotmail.com;
kamala(at)msn.com; allieslaughter(at)hotmail.com; CAROBAUCRUZ(at)SBCGLOBAL.NET;
jrasboth(at)aol.com
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:09:11 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: JWH <mailto:judy(at)havener.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:39 AM
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Subject: SORRY HE'S GONE!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." - Ronald
Reagan
=EF "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the
government and I'm here to help.
- Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's
just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan
"Of the four wars in my lifetime none came about because the U.S. Was
too
strong. - Ronald Reagan
"I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandment's would have
looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S. Congress."- Ronald
Reagan
"The taxpayer: That's someone who works for the federal government but
doesn't have to take the civil service examination. - Ronald Reagan
"Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at
one
end and no sense of responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a
government program." - Ronald Reagan
"I've laid down the law, though, to everyone from now on about anything
that
happens: no matter what time it is, wake me, even if it's in the middle
of a
Cabinet meeting." - Ronald Reagan
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have
learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." - Ronald
Reagan
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short
phrases:
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops
moving, subsidize it." - Ronald Reagan
"Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many
rewards, if
you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." - Ronald Reagan
"No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable
as
the will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a
nation
gone under." - Ronald Reagan
IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE FORWARD.....IF NOT JUST DELETE.
_____
9/2007 7:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Nov 20, 2007
Just trying to see if you guys were still awake.......
I know his administration was dissapointing. They made some mistakes. I
think he was ahead of the curve on conservation and energy usage. We
could have had a 30 year jump on energy usage. Part of the good times
may have been trading off what we needed to face into the future.
Too bad Reagan didn't have better health in his older years after his
presidency. It might have been a reasonable voice added when we really
needed it.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe - Ross Racing Pistons
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Steve,
There was a difference between the Carter administration, and the
Regan administration from my personal perspective.
At the end of the Carter administration, I was broke, paying 20%
interest, and most of my associates were in forclosure.
At the end of the Regan Administration, I was driving a twin engine
airplane, running a top fuel dragster, and was debt free. Mr. Carter
helped imensly, because most of the competition went broke, and Mr.
Regan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:02 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
There were some things to quarrel with Reagan about, but he ended up
pretty good. A genuine conservative and I believe a decent man. While
totally different, a close second to President Carter.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: kaydickson(at)charter.net
To: MMPurnell(at)aol.com; lxlaw89(at)yahoo.com; Ahdowdell(at)sbcglobal.net;
brigedaire(at)sbcglobal.net; BILLYM248(at)aol.com; mocardona(at)hotmail.com;
kamala(at)msn.com; allieslaughter(at)hotmail.com; CAROBAUCRUZ(at)SBCGLOBAL.NET;
jrasboth(at)aol.com
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:09:11 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: JWH
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:39 AM
Subject: Fw: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Subject: SORRY HE'S GONE!
"Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose." -
Ronald Reagan
=EF "The most terrifying words in the English language are:
I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
- Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're
ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald
Reagan
"Of the four wars in my lifetime none came about because the
U.S. Was too strong. - Ronald Reagan
"I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandment's
would have looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S.
Congress."- Ronald Reagan
"The taxpayer: That's someone who works for the federal
government but doesn't have to take the civil service examination. -
Ronald Reagan
"Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big
appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other." -
Ronald Reagan
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this
earth is a government program." - Ronald Reagan
"I've laid down the law, though, to everyone from now on about
anything that happens: no matter what time it is, wake me, even if it's
in the middle of a Cabinet meeting." - Ronald Reagan
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest
profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the
first." - Ronald Reagan
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few
short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And
if it stops moving, subsidize it." - Ronald Reagan
"Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are
many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." -
Ronald Reagan
"No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so
formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald
Reagan
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we
will be a nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan
IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE FORWARD.....IF NOT JUST DELETE.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
9/2007 7:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY.=C2- unbelievable statement :-( jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 7:06 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
=9Ca close second to President Carter=9D
You mean the guy who gave away the Panama Canal?
You mean the guy who brought us 18% mortgage rates?
You mean the guy who threw the Shaw of Iran under the bus resulting in Musli
m situation we have today?
I guess that was a joke and I missed it, sorry.
bilbo
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
=C2-
There were some things to quarrel with Reagan about, but he ended up pretty
good. A genuine conservative and I believe a decent man. While totally diffe
rent,=C2-a close second to President Carter.
=C2-
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: SORRY HE'S GONE!
=C2-
From: kaydickson(at)charter.net