Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dd
September 22, 2008 - October 27, 2008
N444BD 500A
_____
| From: | owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON
CHEVAILLIER
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:28 AM
ditto to all involved w/ the get together @ PWA. thank you. gmc
_____
| From: | moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com |
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:08:06 -0700
Dear Commander Folks:
As always the event was most enjoyable. Also, as could be expected my
Commander got me home safe and sound.
While speaking to Jack Chappell's daughter, I failed to get her contact
information. Could anyone please help me in this regard.
A special big thanks to JB for presenting me with the Golden Pedal Award. As
I was driving back from N19 to my house I saw my neighbor out in his yard.
You can't believe how impressed he, his wife, and two daughters were when I
explained to them that in order to get the award that:
A. I had to have the best paint job and ramp appearance of any Commander
there
B. That I won the 20 mile pylon race
C. I won the Commander knowledge contest
D. Ditto the ground handling contest
E. Ditto the beer drinking contest at The Wormy Dog
Our fearless leaders presentation of this award to me has elevated my
standing in our new community an almost immeasurable amount. Later today,
my neighbors wife is calling The Farmington Daily News to insist that they
do a human interest article on me including a photo of me and the Golden
Pedal.
Again, thanks!
Moe Mills
Current holder of the Golden Pedal Award
N680RR
680Fp
From: Keith S. Gordon <mailto:cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Tom,
Since the models 680 and below do not have aileron trim, both roll and yaw
trim is done via rudder.
I'd check the fixed trim tab on the aileron first (making a tiny correction
since you only notice what I think is left roll at high speed). Aileron
rigging would then be the next and more difficult thing to do.
If that doesn't work I can claim that I'm up too early and should not be
trying to answer aerodynamics questions instead of checking weather and
flight planning -- which I must do right now.
Best,
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 9:11 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to start cranking in
right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
_____
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow
<http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001> Pages!
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s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
=0AThank you Jim and Sue for a wonderfull meeting, sure enjoyed meeting all
of you. Attached is a picture of the voyage home seen only the way we can!
=0AFly Safe...=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A-N69PT=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
=0A=0A=0AThank you Jim and Sue for a wonderfull meeting, sure enjoyed meeti
ng all of you. Attached is a picture of the voyage home seen only the way w
e can!=0AFly Safe...=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A-N69PT=0A=0A
=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: left leaning commanders |
There may be something to that.
T...
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:33 AM
Subject: Commander-List: left leaning commanders
Tom, I think you may have one of the few democrat commanders-
as you go faster and faster consuming more and more fuel ie, money the
air craft tends to veer more and more to the left and it will take quite
a lot more right rudder to bring the aircraft back to true.
ANOTHER GREAT FLY IN--Thanks to Jim and Sue and all the wonder
people at WPA and the "OLD" commander factory folks. Very very
interesting. I wish all could attend.
Thanks to every one that makes it possible and again the
Metzgers are terrific--even if 222JS does have a dirty
tail:-))))))))))))))
dan farmer
--- On Mon, 9/22/08, Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
From: Commander-List Digest Server
Subject: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/21/08
To: "Commander-List Digest List"
Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 12:55 AM
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
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editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
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hapter 08-09-21&Archive=Commander
======================
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Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 09/21/08: 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:10 PM - Aerodynamics (Tom Fisher)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to start
cranking in right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Donnie-
Was that the last thing the bird saw before he hit the windshield? J
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: fly in
Thank you Jim and Sue for a wonderfull meeting, sure enjoyed meeting all of
you. Attached is a picture of the voyage home seen only the way we can!
Fly Safe...
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
N69PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
We arrived safely at home last night around 6:00pm (7 hours and 50 minutes flying
time).? Clear skies until the last 15 minutes of maneuvering through clouds
and rain through the Columbia River Gorge.? Not a problem for the 680E though.?
A great BIG thank you to all of you who attended this year's Fly-In.? You're such
a great group of people to be around and we feel blessed to count you as our
friends.?
How amazing it was to hear from people who were at the factory in the early days
and to hear from Ted Smith's son.? The information, photos, drawings, newspaper
clippings and other items they brought to share with us were pretty awesome
too!!? Cool to see the prototype in person as well.? All in all it was a rare
opportunity to get first hand perspective about the history of the awesome birds
we fly and meet with people who are passionate about Aero Commanders.? Those
of you who missed it missed out on a once in a lifetime opportunity to be
around that kind of history.??
And, a huge thank you to all of you who were so generous during the Auction.? We
set a record this year raising $3400 which was given to the fund for restoring
the Prototype AeroCommander (L-3805) so it can be put in a museum.? WOW!!!!?
More information (ummm.....stories) to follow in the next issue of Flight?Group
news.?
?
Again, thanks again from the bottom of our hearts for making this another great
Fly-In.??
Jim & Sue Metzger?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerodynamics |
Thanks Keith, I will pursue that angle, (pun).
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith S. Gordon
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Tom,
Since the models 680 and below do not have aileron trim, both roll and
yaw trim is done via rudder.
I'd check the fixed trim tab on the aileron first (making a tiny
correction since you only notice what I think is left roll at high
speed). Aileron rigging would then be the next and more difficult
thing to do.
If that doesn't work I can claim that I'm up too early and should not
be trying to answer aerodynamics questions instead of checking weather
and flight planning -- which I must do right now.
Best,
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 9:11 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to start
cranking in right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
That would scare the hell out of um, huh? =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/49
2-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Robert S. Randazzo
=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASen
t: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:35:08 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Fw:
fly in=0A=0A=0ADonnie-=0A-=0AWas that the last thing the bird saw before
he hit the windshield?- J=0A-=0ARobert S. Randazzo=0AN414C=0A-=0A-
=0AFrom:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-l
ist-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Monday, Septembe
r 22, 2008 10:53 AM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Commander
-List: Fw: fly in=0A-=0A-=0AThank you Jim and Sue for a wonderfull meet
ing, sure enjoyed meeting all of you. Attached is a picture of the voyage h
ome seen only the way we can!=0AFly Safe...=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-
-========================
====================0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | On a historical note and inquiry on the L-3805 |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Hi Guys & Girls,
I'm glad every one made it safely home, I must admit it was hard to hold my tears
seen those birds rolling out of the ramp, specially "triple two" (it reminds
me so much my father's straight 560 YV-515P), thanks Jim for showing off what
they can do! (even though we had lost sight of you we could hear that baby roaring
the skies!)
I see that my intuition a few weeks ago that this group was genuine and fun was
darn on right! It's a small world, and as we say: "the best perfumes come in
small bottles."
I learned a ton and my Commander knowledge has grown exponentially!
Continuing on that note, on my way back from our wonderful meeting, I was reading
and catching up on all those great materials given to us. Thanks all, specially
Jim, sue, Barry, the speakers, the attendees and all those doing the hard
work behind this great group.
I was surprised to see that on the handout to employees -May 1951 at the end of
the Chicago Tribune column they mentioned "... the right motor -a 260 hp Lycoming..."
Did the prototype already had the O-435 in 1951? could it really get that much
power without the geared engines? Or did she actually fly with the 190HP? (unlikely)
how much hp could you get out of a O-435 in 1948?
According to our FGNews July'08 it's only in 1955 that the O-435-A were signed
off as installed on June 3rd. You would thing the journalist would get it right
since he was there!... may be he confused his notes and was just talking about
future plans...
Anyway I am thrilled to have seen this great prototype and just trying to make
sense of this remarkable feat and clarify the story.
On that note, Dennis Carter and Kenny Payton from Francis Tuttle Technology Center
were really impressed by the enthusiasm of the group, I had a "couple" of
beers with them after the fund raiser and they were ecstatic; they shared their
frustration and general lack of interest by others in trying to get the ball
rolling on remodeling the Blue Goose.
It seems that we are giving them a great encouragement; let's hope that the next
time we see L-3805 she'll be in another shape! (personally though, I will agree
with TR: I prefer the metallic color), but we can discuss that LATER!
what great four days!
thank you all again.
take care, and hopefully see you next year! in ... Portland?
p.
--------
Peter 560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5721#205721
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: On a historical note and inquiry on the L-3805 |
Hi Folks,
While at the Fly In, I spoke to Jack Chappal's daughter, however, I failed
to get her contact information. Could someone please help me?
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:57 AM
Subject: Commander-List: On a historical note and inquiry on the L-3805
>
>
> Hi Guys & Girls,
>
> I'm glad every one made it safely home, I must admit it was hard to hold
> my tears seen those birds rolling out of the ramp, specially "triple two"
> (it reminds me so much my father's straight 560 YV-515P), thanks Jim for
> showing off what they can do! (even though we had lost sight of you we
> could hear that baby roaring the skies!)
>
> I see that my intuition a few weeks ago that this group was genuine and
> fun was darn on right! It's a small world, and as we say: "the best
> perfumes come in small bottles."
>
> I learned a ton and my Commander knowledge has grown exponentially!
>
> Continuing on that note, on my way back from our wonderful meeting, I was
> reading and catching up on all those great materials given to us. Thanks
> all, specially Jim, sue, Barry, the speakers, the attendees and all those
> doing the hard work behind this great group.
>
> I was surprised to see that on the handout to employees -May 1951 at the
> end of the Chicago Tribune column they mentioned "... the right motor -a
> 260 hp Lycoming..."
>
> Did the prototype already had the O-435 in 1951? could it really get that
> much power without the geared engines? Or did she actually fly with the
> 190HP? (unlikely) how much hp could you get out of a O-435 in 1948?
>
> According to our FGNews July'08 it's only in 1955 that the O-435-A were
> signed off as installed on June 3rd. You would thing the journalist would
> get it right since he was there!... may be he confused his notes and was
> just talking about future plans...
>
> Anyway I am thrilled to have seen this great prototype and just trying to
> make sense of this remarkable feat and clarify the story.
>
> On that note, Dennis Carter and Kenny Payton from Francis Tuttle
> Technology Center were really impressed by the enthusiasm of the group, I
> had a "couple" of beers with them after the fund raiser and they were
> ecstatic; they shared their frustration and general lack of interest by
> others in trying to get the ball rolling on remodeling the Blue Goose.
>
> It seems that we are giving them a great encouragement; let's hope that
> the next time we see L-3805 she'll be in another shape! (personally
> though, I will agree with TR: I prefer the metallic color), but we can
> discuss that LATER!
>
> what great four days!
>
> thank you all again.
>
> take care, and hopefully see you next year! in ... Portland?
>
> p.
>
> --------
> Peter 560 Dreamer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5721#205721
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerodynamics |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
TO; Mr Moe Mills,?Current Holder?of the "Golden Pedal Award"? N680RR? 680Fp
FROM: Mr Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander flight Group (TCFG)
Mr Mills:?
I read with great interest your posting regarding you recent?acceptance of the
Golden Pedal Award (GPW).? First, I want to congratulate you on the above mentioned
award.???It is indeed?a special honor to have?been chosen.? I have, however,
come to the conclusion that you may be a bit confused as to the qualification
for receiving this prestigious honor.? I can only assume that the time you
spent on the evening of 09-18-2008 at the?Stinky Dog saloon has forever clouded
your opinion of your abilities as a pilot?in command? If you will indulge
me, I would like to address each of the inaccurate and felonious reasons you gave
for receiving this trophy.?
Your point "A"?:? ?Due to an apparent recent Skydrol fluid leak, there is no longer
enough paint remaining on your Commander to even be considered for the "Best
Paint" award!!!!!!
Your point "B":? ? At your Commander's normal fuel burn, it?does not hold enough
fuel to complete a 20 mile closed course race!!!!!
Your point "C": ? It is my opinion and that of the judging committee (The Australians
and my Wife) that your total wealth on "Commander Knowledge" is limited
to remembering you "N" number!!!!!!!
Your point?"D":? ? While it is true that no one?witnessed your landing and subsequent
taxi, I have it on good (first hand) authority that both were abysmal!!!!!!
Your Point "E":? ?See above.
In conclusion, let me thank you for you attendance and kind words?Blah, blah, blah?
jb (and the Ozzies &?Harriet (aka Sue).? ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 6:08 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Dear Commander Folks:
?
As always the event was most enjoyable.? Also, as could be expected my Commander
got me home safe and sound.
?
While speaking to Jack Chappell's daughter, I failed to get her contact information.?
Could anyone please help me in this regard.
?
A special big thanks to JB for presenting me with the Golden Pedal Award. As I
was driving back from N19 to my house I saw my neighbor out in his yard.? You
can't believe how impressed he, his wife, and two daughters were when I explained
to them that in order to get the award that:
A. I had to have the best paint job and ramp appearance of any Commander there
B. That I won the 20 mile pylon race
C. I won the Commander knowledge contest
D. Ditto the ground handling contest
E. Ditto the beer drinking contest at The Wormy Dog
?
Our fearless leaders presentation of this? award to me has elevated my standing
in our new community an almost immeasurable amount.? Later today, my neighbors
wife is calling The Farmington Daily News to insist that they do a human interest
article on me including a photo of me and the Golden Pedal.
?
Again, thanks!
?
Moe Mills
Current holder of the Golden Pedal Award
N680RR
680Fp
?
From: Keith S. Gordon
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Tom,
Since the models 680 and below do not have aileron trim, both roll and yaw trim
is done via rudder.?
I'd check the fixed trim tab on the aileron first (making a tiny correction since
you only notice what I think is left roll at high speed).?? Aileron rigging
would then be the next and more difficult thing to do.
If that doesn't work I can claim that I'm up too early and should not be trying
to answer aerodynamics questions instead of checking weather and flight planning
-- which I must do right now.?
Best,
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 9:11 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to start cranking in right
rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
Missed the Fly in again... Thank God we have power at the office
again... The aircraft were moved away from Houston area due to Hurricane
IKE>>> Gone but not forgotten. Mabey next year.
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
You did miss a good one.
Jim
N444BD
500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: TCFG Fly-In
Missed the Fly in again... Thank God we have power at the office again...
The aircraft were moved away from Houston area due to Hurricane IKE>>> Gone
but not forgotten. Mabey next year.
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really happened!
There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take pictures...
Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the external eyes
of the group.
If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming newsletter let
me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out what you want
to have me send you your way.
Good night folks, and have fun!
thanks again all!
p.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVDMwU2g#
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5881#205881
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
That's great, Peter. Would you mind if I put them on the website? It would
be nice if some captions could be written. Someone?
I am so sad that I missed this particular Flyin. Not that missing all the
others were better, but I can only look to next year.
Thanks
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Bichier
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:39 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
-->
For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really
happened!
There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take
pictures...
Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the external
eyes of the group.
If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming newsletter
let me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out what
you want to have me send you your way.
Good night folks, and have fun!
thanks again all!
p.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVD
MwU2g#
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5881#205881
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | peter bichier <peter.bichier(at)utoledo.edu> |
Hey Nico,
yeah, I have noticed that you are behind the web site, good job! and
I was hoping to meet you since not only you're behind the scenes, but
you also contribute to the discussions often.
may be next year?
go ahead post whatever you want, I'm glad I can do something for the
rest of the group, time for the newcomers to chip in no?
p.
On Sep 24, 2008, at 10:33 AM, nico css wrote:
>
>
> That's great, Peter. Would you mind if I put them on the website?
> It would
> be nice if some captions could be written. Someone?
>
> I am so sad that I missed this particular Flyin. Not that missing
> all the
> others were better, but I can only look to next year.
>
> Thanks
>
> Nico
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
Peter, have you taken down your pictures?- Google wont provide access.
-
wer
--- On Wed, 9/24/08, Peter Bichier wrote:
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 12:38 AM
For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really happen
ed!
There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take
pictures...
Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the externa
l
eyes of the group.
If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming newslette
r
let me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out what y
ou
want to have me send you your way.
Good night folks, and have fun!
thanks again all!
p.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EO
O0uVDMwU2g#
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5881#205881
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com> |
Ditto, here.?? I took a quick glance this morning and wanted to go back this evening
and really savor each one.
By the way -- and this may have been made very obvious to everyone at the Fly-In
-- isn't it interesting that there was a A-26 at the Fly-In and it was one of
Ted Smith's projects while at Douglas Aircraft???
Did everyone get the similarity between the A-26 design and cockpit photos and
the shots of the AC-520?? I think that's amazing!?? Couldn't have been planned
better for a celebration of the Commander's birthday.
If Peter's photos were still up, I'd list each complimenting picture number between
the A-26 and a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:38 am
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really happened!
There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take
pictures...
Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the external
eyes of the group.
If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming newsletter let
me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out what you want
to have me send you your way.
Good night folks, and have fun!
thanks again all!
p.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVDMwU2g#
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5881#205881
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
If anyone else happens to have photos, would you please consider posting
them as well.
Bert
In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:22:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
cloudcraft(at)aol.com writes:
Ditto, here. I took a quick glance this morning and wanted to go back this
evening and really savor each one.
By the way -- and this may have been made very obvious to everyone at the
Fly-In -- isn't it interesting that there was a A-26 at the Fly-In and it was
one of Ted Smith's projects while at Douglas Aircraft?
Did everyone get the similarity between the A-26 design and cockpit photos
and the shots of the AC-520? I think that's amazing! Couldn't have been
planned better for a celebration of the Commander's birthday.
If Peter's photos were still up, I'd list each complimenting picture number
between the A-26 and a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:38 am
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
<_pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu_ (mailto:pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu) >
For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really
happened!
There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take
pictures...
Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the external
eyes of the group.
If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming newsletter
let
me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out what you
want
to have me send you your way.
Good night folks, and have fun!
thanks again all!
p.
_http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVDMwU2g#_
(http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVDMwU2g#)
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5881#205881_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5881#205881)
____________________________________
Find phone numbers fast with the _New AOL Yellow Pages_
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001) !
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Peter, if it will help, you can send them to me via email and I will post
them on the website. I'd like to post some of the comments on the flyin
also.
Nico
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Bichier
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:39 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
-->
For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really
happened!
There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take
pictures...
Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the external
eyes of the group.
If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming newsletter
let me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out what
you want to have me send you your way.
Good night folks, and have fun!
thanks again all!
p.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVD
MwU2g#
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5881#205881
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
There is no limitation on newcomers, Peter. There are so many folks that I
would have wanted to meet. Next year may be a good prospect.
I missed our 45th high-school reunion and the flyin to be able to celebrate
my mom's 90th birthday with her in Cape Town. There is no doubt that I made
the right, though painful, choice.
The google website does not show the pics any longer.
See my earlier email.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of peter
bichier
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:06 AM
Subject: Commander-List: TCFG FLY-IN
Hey Nico,
yeah, I have noticed that you are behind the web site, good job! and I was
hoping to meet you since not only you're behind the scenes, but you also
contribute to the discussions often.
may be next year?
go ahead post whatever you want, I'm glad I can do something for the rest of
the group, time for the newcomers to chip in no?
p.
On Sep 24, 2008, at 10:33 AM, nico css wrote:
That's great, Peter. Would you mind if I put them on the website? It would
be nice if some captions could be written. Someone?
I am so sad that I missed this particular Flyin. Not that missing all the
others were better, but I can only look to next year.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
Can someone fill me in on what's happening to the prototype? I wasn't
aware there was a program in place to save it. Ages ago, I tried to get
something happening along with Downtown Airpark and TCAC but was not
able to get any significant interest going. I've long thought it was a
travesty to allow that bird to rot and be beaten by Oklahoma weather.
Wasn't sure if it was even still in good enough condition for anything
but the scrap yard by now. I sure hope it has found an appropriate new
caretaker!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
WOW!
I guess the word is around!
sorry for the delay, I was just adding some captions and somehow messed it all
out!
it SHOULD be running now! let me know,
p.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6028#206028
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
As I was unable to attend I would like to see the handouts that were
floating about.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
>
>
> Peter, if it will help, you can send them to me via email and I will post
> them on the website. I'd like to post some of the comments on the flyin
> also.
> Nico
> nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
> Bichier
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:39 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
>
> -->
>
> For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really
> happened!
>
> There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take
> pictures...
>
> Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the
> external
> eyes of the group.
>
> If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming
> newsletter
> let me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out what
> you want to have me send you your way.
>
> Good night folks, and have fun!
>
> thanks again all!
>
> p.
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVD
> MwU2g#
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5881#205881
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Nico, you know you made the right choice.
Like I said before, I'm doing all this for myself of course ('cause I truly like
these planes) but I also recognize that I wouldn't be here if it was not for
the old man (purchasing a 560 in 72! for ex.) so I also owe it to him. Unfortunately
I can't share this wonderful group of people with him any longer. I really
wish he could have taken advantage of the wonders of the internet (and here
we see its positive side) and share TCFG's knowledge to help keep his plane
and his dream alive (although politics seem to mingle into peoples life too...)
All I want to say, is that family first! my grand mother lived until 93 years old,
I had to fly to France for it, the whole family went and that was pretty much
her last which.
Hope you found her sound and spirited, it is important to keep in touch with our
elders while we can. Look at the photos and see how our elders are doing great
because they're also in their passion!
The photos should be up, and ah... there are 291 pictures (I added an extra one
since you opened it last) and I don't how much space they take but I think close
to 300MB... a bit much for emails...
I also set up the album so anyone can download any pictures.
Let me know if you know more about picasa and you have something in mind (to tell
you the truth it's the 1st time I used it...)
thanks for the feed back and enjoy!
p.
[quote="nico(at)cybersuperstore.c"]There is no limitation on newcomers, Peter.
There are so many folks that I would have wanted to meet. Next year may be a
good prospect.
I missed our 45th high-school reunion and the flyin to be able to celebrate my
mom's 90th birthday with her in Cape Town. There is no doubt that I made the
right, though painful, choice.
The google website does not show the pics any longer.
See my earlier email.
Nico
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6037#206037
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Commander Gordon!
Since I have your attention for a second, let me 1st congratulate you on your Pago
Pago story! I had read that quite a while ago, and it's one of those stories
that made me smile for a while, and of course made me dream too! thanks :)
As we say, "la vida es un pauelo" (life is a hanker chief),
when I arrived at Wiley Post on thursday, I was surprised by the size of the airport,
all I saw were gigantic hangars, a beat up Push Pull, Cherokees some Bonanzas,
Jets, the usual. I was there around 13:30 and from the forum notes at
least Jim should be around, but I couldn't see or even less hear a Commander...
I really got worried for a moment! (8hours from Toledo!, commercial airline,
4 day car rental, 2 days off...) I went to the FBO, and they had no idea who
and what TCFG was or doing that day or anytime... so I went to see the Airport
Manager, he even was more cluless! I'm trying to politely say to the manager
that he really SHOULD know what's going on in his airport, and that he should
make some phone calls to see where the Commanders are taxing. Suddenly this tall
dude comes in, and asks the manager for how long the main airstrip is going
to be closed because he needs to approach at 160 or 180 mph! ... so after I finally
give up on the manager, I follow the tall guy and ask him what kind of
airplane approaches at that speed?
he turns around and points out to me to one of those huge hangars and tells me
that there is a black Bomber out there! thanks!
I hopped on my rental and headed out that way, looked for it and wasn't too sure
what he meant (don't know very well my war birds -> it certainly sounded like
a great airplane, but I thought it was going to be tanker to turn off fires...
) and there and behold was the beutiful black A-26! that YES I immediately
recognized and saw similarities!
As I tried to get close to it, (that 1st shot that you see in the album is actually
through the fence and w. a 10x digital zoom) I saw a Shrike landing, followed
it with the eyes, and then I new where to go!
That's how my 1st minutes started, little did I know that the next day I would
be invited to climb the cockpit!
Again, what a great meeting, photos speak for themselves.
I couldn't agree more with your comments!,
p.
[quote="cloudcraft(at)aol.com"]Ditto, here. I took a quick glance this morning
and wanted to go back this evening and really savor each one.
By the way -- and this may have been made very obvious to everyone at the Fly-In
-- isn't it interesting that there was a A-26 at the Fly-In and it was one
of Ted Smith's projects while at Douglas Aircraft?
Did everyone get the similarity between the A-26 design and cockpit photos and
the shots of the AC-520? I think that's amazing! Couldn't have been planned
better for a celebration of the Commander's birthday.
If Peter's photos were still up, I'd list each complimenting picture number between
the A-26 and a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
:D :D :D :D :D :D
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6045#206045
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com> |
Peter, (and everyone!)
Thanks for getting your photos back up.=C2- I know I'm not the only one wh
o feels the need to catch up on the Fly-In and your album helps fill a void
in those of us who did not get to attend.
I ran through the photos rather quickly again -- I have to leave at 05:30 an
d will be gone for 5 days so there's one or two other things I have to deal
with this evening.
Just for fun, look at photos of the A-26, especially #2, 97, 100 and 102.
=C2-=C2- Then scroll over quickly to #138 and 246 (note the tail group s
imilarities) and then check out the the control yoke and throttle quadrant i
n #155 and then, finally, the side view in #195.
I've been in that particular A-26 or one nearly identical (how many black A-
26s are flying around?) and was amused to find that the flap & gear indicato
r was the same as the bathtub nacelle Commanders -- as were the magneto swit
ches and I think gear and flap handles.
Well, when you work for Douglas Aircraft and go build an airplane in your ga
rage and then get it in production, you're probably going to use the same ve
ndors you bought from at the big factory, right?
Not to be missed, either, were the shots of the 1121 Jet Commander -- what T
ed envisioned as the ultimate evolution of the Commander before Rockwell pus
hed him out the door.
Of course he got busy with the AeroStar ... and at the factory in Santa Mari
a, California, there were artist's renderings of that airplane with jet engi
nes, along with
a sailplane he was working on called the Soaring Star.
The man was a genius.=C2- We all know that.=C2-=C2- I, for one, am gla
d there's a gallery on line for all the historical material your photographe
d -- and the beautiful restorations that appeared at the event.=C2- Some o
f you guys have gone above and beyond the basic "paint and interior" jobs.
Thank you!
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 7:49 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
.Edu>
Commander Gordon!
Since I have your attention for a second, let me 1st congratulate you on you
r
Pago Pago story! I had read that quite a while ago, and it's one of those
stories that made me smile for a while, and of course made me dream too! tha
nks
:)
As we say, "la vida es un pa=C3=83=C2=B1uelo" (life is a hanker chief),
when I arrived at Wiley Post on thursday, I was surprised by the size of the
airport, all I saw were gigantic hangars, a beat up Push Pull, Cherokees som
e
Bonanzas, Jets, the usual. I was there around 13:30 and from the forum notes
at
least Jim should be around, but I couldn't see or even less hear a Commander
...
I really got worried for a moment! (8hours from Toledo!, commercial airline,
4
day car rental,202 days off...) I went to the FBO, and they had no idea who
and
what TCFG was or doing that day or anytime... so I went to see the Airport
Manager, he even was more cluless! I'm trying to politely say to the manager
that he really SHOULD know what's going on in his airport, and that he shoul
d
make some phone calls to see where the Commanders are taxing. Suddenly this
tall
dude comes in, and asks the manager for how long the main airstrip is going
to
be closed because he needs to approach at 160 or 180 mph! ... so after I fin
ally
give up on the manager, I follow the tall guy and ask him what kind of airpl
ane
approaches at that speed?
he turns around and points out to me to one of those huge hangars and tells
me
that there is a black Bomber out there! thanks!
I hopped on my rental and headed out that way, looked for it and wasn't too
sure
what he meant (don't know very well my war birds -> it certainly sounded lik
e a
great airplane, but I thought it was going to be tanker to turn off fires...
)
and there and behold was the beutiful black A-26! that YES I immediately
recognized and saw similarities!
As I tried to get close to it, (that 1st shot that you see in the album is
actually through the fence and w. a 10x digital zoom) I saw a Shrike landing
,
followed it with the eyes, and then I new where to go!
That's how my 1st minutes started, little did I know that the next day I wou
ld
be invited to climb the20cockpit!
Again, what a great meeting, photos speak for themselves.
I couldn't agree more with your comments!,
p.
[quote="cloudcraft(at)aol.com"]Ditto, here. I took a quick glance this m
orning
and wanted to go back this evening and really savor each one.
By the way -- and this may have been made very obvious to everyone at the
Fly-In -- isn't it interesting that there was a A-26 at the Fly-In and it wa
s
one of Ted Smith's projects while at Douglas Aircraft?
Did everyone get the similarity between the A-26 design and cockpit photos
and
the shots of the AC-520? I think that's amazing! Couldn't have been plann
ed
better for a celebration of the Commander's birthday.
If Peter's photos were still up, I'd list each complimenting picture number
between the A-26 and a Commander.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
:D :D :D :D :D :D
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6045#206045
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Sorry me again,
I'm missing a couple of people -captions for the album:
Who was the Aero Commander Chief Engineer that came along with Bill McGinnins
and that worked for the plant & Co. throughout the production life of these birds?
He is on #201
What about Amis brother's grand son? great guy too, but I just don't remember his
name or his wife... I know you can blame it on the wine and the susspens of
the auction! but hey, not too many blurry pics!
He is on #215
Has anyone Danny Davis's email or phone contact? Danny, are you also part of the
group or on this forum? He's all around these pics and he is also interested
in sharing the groups experience with the Oklahoma Pilot Association. He also
has the oldest bird around...
The album seems to be working out now, and should see some kind of captions, as
you scroll them; otherwise poste it, and I'll update it.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVDMwU2g#[/quote] :?
take care all,
OK, done with my home work for the time been...
p.
Peter Bichier wrote:
> For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really happened!
>
> There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take pictures...
>
> Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the external
eyes of the group.
>
> If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming newsletter
let me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out what you
want to have me send you your way.
>
> Good night folks, and have fun!
>
> thanks again all!
>
> p.
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVDMwU2g#
:?
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6061#206061
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Kennedy <craigk391(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Gang,
I'm regretting having to miss the fly-in, and after seeing the photos, envi
ous of the gorgeous Commanders and their doting owners!- Not sure if mine
will ever measure up, but I now have examples to shoot for.
I would like to echo a previous post requesting a copy of the materials sha
red at the fly-in.- Can these be posted on the web, or packaged for maili
ng?
Congrats on a great event.
Craig
--- On Wed, 9/24/08, Peter Bichier wrote:
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 10:57 PM
Sorry me again,
I'm missing a couple of people -captions for the album:
Who was the Aero Commander Chief Engineer that came along with Bill McGinn
ins
and that worked for the plant & Co. throughout the production life of these
birds?
He is on #201
What about Amis brother's grand son? great guy too, but I just don't
remember his name or his wife... I know you can blame it on the wine and th
e
susspens of the auction! but hey, not too many blurry pics!
He is on #215
Has anyone Danny Davis's email or phone contact? Danny, are you also part
of the group or on this forum? He's all around these pics and he is also
interested in sharing the groups experience with the Oklahoma Pilot Associa
tion.
He also has the oldest bird around...
The album seems to be working out now, and should see some kind of captions
, as
you scroll them; otherwise poste it, and I'll update it.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EO
O0uVDMwU2g#[/quote]
:?
take care all,
OK, done with my home work for the time been...
p.
Peter Bichier wrote:
> For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really
happened!
>
> There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take
pictures...
>
> Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the
external eyes of the group.
>
> If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming
newsletter let me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point
out
what you want to have me send you your way.
>
> Good night folks, and have fun!
>
> thanks again all!
>
> p.
>
>
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EO
O0uVDMwU2g#
:?
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6061#206061
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Hi Peter,
Thank you for posting your pictures for everyone to enjoy.? It was a pleasure meeting
you and your enthusiasm for Commanders is infectious.? Here's the answers
to your questions.?
-? The Chief Engineer that came with Bill McGinnis was Ken Hale.? His signature
is on almost all of the Service Letters from the factory.? He was at the factory
from serial number 1 to the last one.??WOW!!!?
- Amis' grandson's name is Dave Amis.??The lady with him was a girlfriend and I'm
sorry that I don't recall?her name either.??
- I'll send you Danny's contact info in a private email.??
Some other corrections on the captions are that Stan's last name is Perkins (not
Perk) and Bob Murduck's wife's name is Sonnie.?
Good job with the pictures!!!
We plan to include some?of the handouts with the next newsletter for all members
to enjoy.??
Thanks Again,
Jim & Sue
??
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:57 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
Sorry me again,
I'm missing a couple of people -captions for the album:
Who was the Aero Commander Chief Engineer that came along with Bill McGinnins
and that worked for the plant & Co. throughout the production life of these
birds?
He is on #201
What about Amis brother's grand son? great guy too, but I just don't remember
his name or his wife... I know you can blame it on the wine and the susspens of
the auction! but hey, not too many blurry pics!
He is on #215
Has anyone Danny Davis's email or phone contact? Danny, are you also part of the
group or on this forum? He's all around these pics and he is also interested in
sharing the groups experience with the Oklahoma Pilot Association. He also has
the oldest bird around...
The album seems to be working out now, and should see some kind of captions, as
you scroll them; otherwise poste it, and I'll update it.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVDMwU2g#[/quote]
:?
take care all,
OK, done with my home work for the time been...
p.
Peter Bichier wrote:
> For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really happened!
>
> There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to take
pictures...
>
> Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the external
eyes of the group.
>
> If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming newsletter
let me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out what you
want to have me send you your way.
>
> Good night folks, and have fun!
>
> thanks again all!
>
> p.
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVDMwU2g#
:?
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6061#206061
Features Navigator to browse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | FW: Emailing: Send Off 4, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 001, |
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 002, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 003, River Walk Boat
Ride OKC 004, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 005, Send Off 1, Send Off 2, Send Off
3
Subject: Emailing: Send Off 4, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 001, River Walk Boat
Ride OKC 002, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 003, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 004,
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 005, Send Off 1, Send Off 2, Send Off 3
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Send Off 4
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 001
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 002
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 003
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 004
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 005
Send Off 1
Send Off 2
Send Off 3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | FW: Emailing: Send Off 4, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 001, |
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 002, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 003, River Walk Boat
Ride OKC 004, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 005, Send Off 1, Send Off 2, Send Off
3
Subject: Emailing: Send Off 4, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 001, River Walk Boat
Ride OKC 002, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 003, River Walk Boat Ride OKC 004,
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 005, Send Off 1, Send Off 2, Send Off 3
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
I will try this one more time.
Send Off 4
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 001
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 002
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 003
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 004
River Walk Boat Ride OKC 005
Send Off 1
Send Off 2
Send Off 3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | FW: Emailing: Trip to Prototype 16, Trip to Prototype |
8, Trip to Prototype 9, Trip to Prototype 10, Trip to Prototype 11, Trip to
Prototype 12, Trip to Prototype 13, Trip to Prototype 14, Trip to Prototype 15
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington [mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net]
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 11:50 PM
Subject: Emailing: Trip to Prototype 16, Trip to Prototype 8, Trip to
Prototype 9, Trip to Prototype 10, Trip to Prototype 11, Trip to Prototype
12, Trip to Prototype 13, Trip to Prototype 14, Trip to Prototype 15
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Trip to Prototype 16
Trip to Prototype 8
Trip to Prototype 9
Trip to Prototype 10
Trip to Prototype 11
Trip to Prototype 12
Trip to Prototype 13
Trip to Prototype 14
Trip to Prototype 15
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Emailing: Trip to Prototype 16, Trip to Prototype |
8, Trip to Prototype 9, Trip to Prototype 10, Trip to Prototype 11, Trip
to Prototype 12, Trip to Prototype 13, Trip to Prototype 14, Trip to Prototype
15
Thanks for the pix Jim!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | FW: Emailing: Trip to Prototype 16, Trip to Prototype |
8, Trip to Prototype 9, Trip to Prototype 10, Trip to Prototype 11, Trip
to Prototype 12, Trip to Prototype 13, Trip to Prototype 14, Trip to Prototype
15
Chris, was this all you got?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Emailing: Trip to Prototype 16, Trip to
Prototype 8, Trip to Prototype 9, Trip to Prototype 10, Trip to Prototype
11, Trip to Prototype 12, Trip to Prototype 13, Trip to Prototype 14, Trip
to Prototype 15
Thanks for the pix Jim!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Deice on that commander? |
Commanders-
One of the photographs on Pete's nice upload of photographs shows what
appears to be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on that
airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Hope these are making it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Some more.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
More pictures.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
More Pictures.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Emailing: Trip to Prototype 16, Trip to Prototype |
8, Trip to Prototype 9, Trip to Prototype 10, Trip to Prototype 11,
Trip to Prototype 12, Trip to Prototype 13, Trip to Prototype 14, Trip to
Prototype 15
Jim Addington wrote:
> Chris, was this all you got?
No, there were three sets. Still hoping to hear more about the
prototype situation. You have any news you could share?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I am having problems getting this through, Please bear with me.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Pictures
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
More
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
The end
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | FW: Emailing: Trip to Prototype 16, Trip to Prototype |
8, Trip to Prototype 9, Trip to Prototype 10, Trip to Prototype 11,
Trip to Prototype 12, Trip to Prototype 13, Trip to Prototype 14, Trip to
Prototype 15
What question did you have about the prototype? They are going to rebuild it
to static display quality. It won't be flyable. We gave them the money that
was taken in from the auction, $3400. They said this would really help. They
hope to get it in side soon.
Jim Addington
N444BD 500A
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Emailing: Trip to Prototype 16, Trip to
Prototype 8, Trip to Prototype 9, Trip to Prototype 10, Trip to Prototype
11, Trip to Prototype 12, Trip to Prototype 13, Trip to Prototype 14, Trip
to Prototype 15
Jim Addington wrote:
> Chris, was this all you got?
No, there were three sets. Still hoping to hear more about the
prototype situation. You have any news you could share?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Deice on that commander? |
If it was the one I am thinking about, it was John Towner's system and seems
to work well.
Jim Addington
N444BD 500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:23 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Commanders-
One of the photographs on Pete's nice upload of photographs shows what
appears to be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on that
airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Deice on that commander? |
Jim-
What was it? Electric? Weeping? Magic?
Looks like it is lighter than pneumatic boots. I'm always looking for weight
savings. J
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C (with big black boots)
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
If it was the one I am thinking about, it was John Towner's system and seems
to work well.
Jim Addington
N444BD 500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:23 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Commanders-
One of the photographs on Pete's nice upload of photographs shows what
appears to be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on that
airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Deice on that commander? |
TKS
I looked into it last year through Jon Towner and the cost was $35K for
the unit and app. 200 hours to install. The unit comes from England and
I am sure the price has changed due to the exchange rate.
I seriously considered it based on keeping the plane for 10 years and
the benefits but due to changing flying missions (all personal flying)
and the loss of a local mechanic I have placed my 500S with Aircenter
for sale.
Don Falik
1970 500S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
S. Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Jim-
What was it? Electric? Weeping? Magic?
Looks like it is lighter than pneumatic boots. I'm always looking for
weight savings. :-)
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C (with big black boots)
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
If it was the one I am thinking about, it was John Towner's system and
seems to work well.
Jim Addington
N444BD 500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
S. Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:23 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Commanders-
One of the photographs on Pete's nice upload of photographs shows what
appears to be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on
that airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Deice on that commander? |
I am not sure. John Towner has the STC and I believe installs them. It was
his idea for his freight aircraft. It seems to work better than boots from
what I heard. I noticed it had very tiny holes and it is made out of
titanium. It is definitely not boots though. Call John, he is a teriffic
person and will give you all the answers.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Jim-
What was it? Electric? Weeping? Magic?
Looks like it is lighter than pneumatic boots. I'm always looking for weight
savings. :-)
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C (with big black boots)
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
If it was the one I am thinking about, it was John Towner's system and seems
to work well.
Jim Addington
N444BD 500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:23 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Commanders-
One of the photographs on Pete's nice upload of photographs shows what
appears to be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on that
airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Deice on that commander? |
I hate to hear you have it for sale, they are such nice planes, but do
understand.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:18 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
TKS
I looked into it last year through Jon Towner and the cost was $35K for the
unit and app. 200 hours to install. The unit comes from England and I am
sure the price has changed due to the exchange rate.
I seriously considered it based on keeping the plane for 10 years and the
benefits but due to changing flying missions (all personal flying) and the
loss of a local mechanic I have placed my 500S with Aircenter for sale.
Don Falik
1970 500S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Jim-
What was it? Electric? Weeping? Magic?
Looks like it is lighter than pneumatic boots. I'm always looking for weight
savings. :-)
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C (with big black boots)
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
If it was the one I am thinking about, it was John Towner's system and seems
to work well.
Jim Addington
N444BD 500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:23 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Commanders-
One of the photographs on Pete's nice upload of photographs shows what
appears to be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on that
airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Deice on that commander? |
I forgot to tell you $35,000 is what I paid for my whole plane.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
I hate to hear you have it for sale, they are such nice planes, but do
understand.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:18 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
TKS
I looked into it last year through Jon Towner and the cost was $35K for the
unit and app. 200 hours to install. The unit comes from England and I am
sure the price has changed due to the exchange rate.
I seriously considered it based on keeping the plane for 10 years and the
benefits but due to changing flying missions (all personal flying) and the
loss of a local mechanic I have placed my 500S with Aircenter for sale.
Don Falik
1970 500S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Jim-
What was it? Electric? Weeping? Magic?
Looks like it is lighter than pneumatic boots. I'm always looking for weight
savings. :-)
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C (with big black boots)
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
If it was the one I am thinking about, it was John Towner's system and seems
to work well.
Jim Addington
N444BD 500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:23 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Deice on that commander?
Commanders-
One of the photographs on Pete's nice upload of photographs shows what
appears to be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on that
airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
Thank you for your generous support!
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Deice on that commander? |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
John Bosch from Commander Aero Inc. gave us a talk on some of their modifications.
He gave us a pamphlet, but I also have downloaded a PDF from his web page
that talks about it (Page eight).
http://www.commander-aero.com/
the pdf is: N741CA+Refurbishment12/5/7.pdf
it's too big for me to attach it here, but if you are interested I'll send it to
you directly to your email.
Let me know.
Also John Towner gave us a handout where he mentions a TKS System among Central
Air's special Commander maintenance items and STCs (it's short so I'll type it
for you here):
TKS System (wing, tail, prop, and windshield anti-icing system)
In 1993-94 we certified the Commander model 500B, 500U, and 500S using the TKS
system for "flight into known ice" per FAA regulations. We own the STC (supplemental
type certificate) for this installation. The parts of the system are made
in England and the lead time can be 6 to 8 months for a kit. We are planning
to put a spare kit on our shelf. The worst ice I have ever flown in was not
forecast and there is an old joke "if the TKS system only saves your life once
it was worth it"
I understand that you have a 685, but he might have suggestions, since I think
you were referring to either his plane or Bosch's.
[quote="rsrandazzo(at)precisionma"]Commanders-
One of the photographs on Petes nice upload of photographs shows what appears to
be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on that airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
> [b]
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6240#206240
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Hi Jim & Sue, & the gang
I have completed and corrected the captions, hopefully this will help recreate
or remind people or what we did during those great 4 days!
I'm amazed that in spite of the years you're all in contact, some of you have never
seen each other in person! (more reasons to share)
you are all welcome to pass along the album link with Ron Smith, Bill McGinnis,
Ken Hale, Dave Amis and whoever is not on the list that could be interested.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-EOO0uVDMwU2g#[/quote]
You will all notice, by the way, that you practically NEVER see Sue on ANY of these
photos... and believe me, she wasn't in the ladies fixing up her touches:
this woman never stopped! -actually you sort of see her , and she is working
is organizing folders before the auction (#291) in the back.
Sue, as Jim said: this event could not have been possible without your great people
skills, organizing, page making, accounting, and all you do behind the scene.
I don't think I saw you relaxing ONCE: even in the Auction you were taking up the
tally!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH! (you were, as you know, the 1st person I met -and you can
tell you're on top of things, you immediately knew who I was!
The round of applause and standing ovation was VERY WELL DESERVE!
Hope you're at home now, sipping some Martinis while the boys are cooking the burgers!
have a well deserved rest you two,
hasta la vista,
p.
[quote="yourtcfg(at)aol.com"]Hi Peter,
Thank you for posting your pictures for everyone to enjoy. It was a pleasure
meeting you and your enthusiasm for Commanders is infectious. Here's the answers
to your questions.
- The Chief Engineer that came with Bill McGinnis was Ken Hale. His signature
is on almost all of the Service Letters from the factory. He was at the factory
from serial number 1 to the last one. WOW!!!
- Amis' grandson's name is Dave Amis. The lady with him was a girlfriend and
I'm sorry that I don't recall her name either.
- I'll send you Danny's contact info in a private email.
Some other corrections on the captions are that Stan's last name is Perkins (not
Perk) and Bob Murduck's wife's name is Sonnie.
Good job with the pictures!!!
We plan to include some of the handouts with the next newsletter for all members
to enjoy.
Thanks Again,
Jim & Sue
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6245#206245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Deice on that commander? |
Thanks, Peter!
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bichier
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Deice on that commander?
John Bosch from Commander Aero Inc. gave us a talk on some of their modifications.
He gave us a pamphlet, but I also have downloaded a PDF from his web page
that talks about it (Page eight).
http://www.commander-aero.com/
the pdf is: N741CA+Refurbishment12/5/7.pdf
it's too big for me to attach it here, but if you are interested I'll send it to
you directly to your email.
Let me know.
Also John Towner gave us a handout where he mentions a TKS System among Central
Air's special Commander maintenance items and STCs (it's short so I'll type it
for you here):
TKS System (wing, tail, prop, and windshield anti-icing system)
In 1993-94 we certified the Commander model 500B, 500U, and 500S using the TKS
system for "flight into known ice" per FAA regulations. We own the STC (supplemental
type certificate) for this installation. The parts of the system are made
in England and the lead time can be 6 to 8 months for a kit. We are planning
to put a spare kit on our shelf. The worst ice I have ever flown in was not
forecast and there is an old joke "if the TKS system only saves your life once
it was worth it"
I understand that you have a 685, but he might have suggestions, since I think
you were referring to either his plane or Bosch's.
[quote="rsrandazzo(at)precisionma"]Commanders-
One of the photographs on Petes nice upload of photographs shows what appears to
be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on that airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
> [b]
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6240#206240
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Advertising your Commander on Latin American Market |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
As much as I would hate to see these Commanders go, I know some of you are trying
to sell them.
Here is a link for the Latin American Market (mostly Venezuela & Colombia) but
I have seen other countries announced too. As you might know those airplanes are
quite popular down there...
There is a one time fee of $90.00; then you just have to "renew" your advertisement
every 60 days (just with a click of a mouse), until you decide to take if
away, or the plane is sold.
here is the link:
http://www.tuavion.com/es/index2.html
let me know if you need assistance with the spanish or anything else,
Buena suerte!
p.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6252#206252
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advertising your Commander on Latin American Market |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
WOW! they just sold a 1960 500A (s/n 899-8) converted to B just as of last week!
(I had checked it before going to the fly in, and now it's SOLD!
check it out (has specs & pictures):
http://tuavion.com/es/anuncios/piston-multi/COMMANDER/YV-1119/index.html
Also, advertise it in US$, don't mess with the Bolivar... (but FYI the "official
rate is 2.2BsF. to the US$ but it can vary on the "parallel" market [yes there
is such thing down there] it's around 3.4 BsF. to the Dollar... (don't get
me started on that, but I can give you all the info if necessary).
[quote="Peter Bichier"]As much as I would hate to see these Commanders go, I know
some of you are trying to sell them.
Here is a link for the Latin American Market (mostly Venezuela & Colombia) but
I have seen other countries announced too. As you might know those airplanes are
quite popular down there...
There is a one time fee of $90.00; then you just have to "renew" your advertisement
every 60 days (just with a click of a mouse), until you decide to take if
away, or the plane is sold.
here is the link:
http://www.tuavion.com/es/index2.html
let me know if you need assistance with the spanish or anything else,
Buena suerte!
p.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6259#206259
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Folks,
Finally back to remote Oz after another great Flyin.
Well done to Peter & Jim for posting their pics of the event!
I want to add my compliments and thanks to Jim & Sue for a truly remarkable
event.
What a surreal feeling to find myself waist deep in all those 'impossible to
find' Commander parts.
All we have to do is talk to each other and more spares will continue to
find there way to us. The TCFG has emerged as an extremely powerful network
of knowledge.
Three cheers for Jim & Sue!!
>From remote Oz...
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
Russell Legg wrote:
> All we have to do is talk to each other and more spares will continue to
> find there way to us.
Hi Russell. Sorry I didn't make it to the fly-in to visit. We had
flown out to Az to visit some family that weekend.
Speaking of parts, is there anyone on the list with a 520? I have some
parts including a very hard to find air filter.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com> |
- Amis' grandson's name is Dave Amis
As in David Amis, the former president of Downtown Airpark?!!?
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Amis' Grandson |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
I believe this was his grandfather.?
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith S. Gordon <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 8:19 am
Subject: Commander-List: Amis' Grandson
- Amis' grandson's name is Dave Amis
As in David Amis, the former president of Downtown Airpark?!!?
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Russell,
Thank you for being such a loyal supporter of TCFG that you make such a great effort
to come flying half way round the world.? That's a true believer!!!!
~jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 5:02 am
Subject: Commander-List: TCFG FLY-IN
G'day Folks,
Finally back to remote Oz after another great Flyin.
Well done to Peter & Jim for posting their pics of the event!
I want to add my compliments and thanks to Jim & Sue for a truly remarkable
event.
What a surreal feeling to find myself waist deep in all those 'impossible to
find' Commander parts.
All we have to do is talk to each other and more spares will continue to
find there way to us. The TCFG has emerged as an extremely powerful network
of knowledge.
Three cheers for Jim & Sue!!
>From remote Oz...
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
View full size
View full size
View full size
We recently had some Twin Commander Flight Group Hats made and they are available
to purchase for $10 each plus $5.00 postage.? Up to 4 hats can be purchased
for the same postage cost of $5.00.? If interested please send an email to yourtcfg(at)aol.com.?
Sorry, I'm not the best photographer, but hopefully you can get
a good idea of the colors and type of hat.? They come in tan with blue embroidery,
khaki with blue embroidery, navy with red embroidery and white with red
embroidery.? And, there is an adjustable strap on the back.?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Commander Ads and Brochures |
Let try it this way.
I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the years.
I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link and
let me know if it works.
Bert
_http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh_
(http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh)
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Barry Home" <don.barry(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Commander Ads and Brochures |
Bert,
Works great. You have a truly outstanding collection. Wow!!!!
Don
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:37 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander Ads and Brochures
Let try it this way.
I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the years.
I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link and
let me know if it works.
Bert
http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh
_____
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenge/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001"
href="tp://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001"
target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information,
tips and calculators.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Berry,
WOW! now THAT's a collection!
just went through the 1st 100s... which confirms my suspicions that the figures
on the TCFG's web site are not quite exact by the way!... (560E, 680, & 500)
One of these days I'll take the time to check them and point out the mistakes.
Some of the pamphlets though, I can't see with the magnification allowed for 'common'
users (a card w 3 columns comparing them), if I want to see "full screen"
it says I have to be a "friend"...
It'll take some time, but I'll check your entire collection!
thanks!
p.
[quote="BertBerry1(at)aol.com"]Let try it this way.
I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the years.
I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link and let
me know if it works.
Bert
http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh (http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh)
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6409#206409
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bichier, Peter" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Jim, nice photos!
Hey, do you mind if I attach them to "my album"?
in this way they would be all together and easier to look at, now or
later on.
what do you think?
or if you rather, I could create another album and load all yours in
there too...
let me know what's your preference (if any!)
p.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Jim
Addington
Sent: Mon 1/1/2007 2:49 AM
Subject: Commander-List:
More
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I don't mind at all and you do it which ever way you think best.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bichier,
Peter
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:30 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Jim's photos
Jim, nice photos!
Hey, do you mind if I attach them to "my album"?
in this way they would be all together and easier to look at, now or later
on.
what do you think?
or if you rather, I could create another album and load all yours in there
too...
let me know what's your preference (if any!)
p.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Jim Addington
Sent: Mon 1/1/2007 2:49 AM
Subject: Commander-List:
More
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
VGhhbmtzIERvbiwNCg0KSSBzdGlsbCBoYXZlIGEgdG9uIG9mIHN0dWZmIGxlZnQgdG8gc2Nhbi4g
IEknbGwgdHJ5IHRvIGdldCB0byB0aGF0IHNvb24sIHNvIGNoZWNrIGJhY2sgZm9yIHVwZGF0ZXMu
DQoNCkJlcnQNClNlbnQgdmlhIEJsYWNrQmVycnkgYnkgQVQmVA0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1l
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DQogDQoNCiAgX19fX18gIA0KDQpGcm9tOiBvd25lci1jb21tYW5kZXItbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0
cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1jb21tYW5kZXItbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNz
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CiANCg0KTGV0IHRyeSBpdCB0aGlzIHdheS4gIA0KDQogDQoNCkkgcG9zdCBhIGxvdCBvZiB0aGUg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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
Thanks Peter,
If there is something specific that you want to see, send me the caption and a
description to make sure I get the right one, and I'll email it to you.
Bert
------Original Message------
From: Peter Bichier
Sender: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sep 27, 2008 2:19 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
Berry,
WOW! now THAT's a collection!
just went through the 1st 100s... which confirms my suspicions that the figures
on the TCFG's web site are not quite exact by the way!... (560E, 680, & 500)
One of these days I'll take the time to check them and point out the mistakes.
Some of the pamphlets though, I can't see with the magnification allowed for 'common'
users (a card w 3 columns comparing them), if I want to see "full screen"
it says I have to be a "friend"...
It'll take some time, but I'll check your entire collection!
thanks!
p.
[quote="BertBerry1(at)aol.com"]Let try it this way.
I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the years.
I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link and let
me know if it works.
Bert
http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh (http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh)
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6409#206409
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Bert,
WOW!? Thanks for posting your collection.? Thought I had a good collection, but
I think you have me beat.? What a wonderful collection.? You've inspired me to
do the same with mine -- did you scan them yourself or have an outfit do them????
Thanks Again,
~jb
-----Original Message-----
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 3:37 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Commander Ads and Brochures
Let try it this way.?
?
I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the years.? I'm
just having trouble working out the search string.? Try this link and let me
know if it works.
?
Bert
?
?
http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenge/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" href="tp://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |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dHJpbmcuPyBUcnkgdGhpcyBsaW5rIGFuZCBsZXQgbWUga25vdyBpZiBpdCB3b3Jrcy4NCg0KPw0K
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YW5kIGNhbGN1bGF0b3JzLg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jim's photos |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
OK last time I'll say anything about the photos!
just wanted to share that I have uploaded Jim's on the album.
I'll leave it up there until I ran out of space and will warn the group (specially
Nico) when and if I decide to remove it from the server.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TwinCommanderFlightGroupFlyIn#
quote="jtaddington(at)verizon.ne"]I dont mind at all and you do it which ever way
you think best.
Jim
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6458#206458
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim's photos |
Pete-
Just thought I'd say that your enthusiasm is most welcome around here!
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bichier
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 10:46 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Jim's photos
OK last time I'll say anything about the photos!
just wanted to share that I have uploaded Jim's on the album.
I'll leave it up there until I ran out of space and will warn the group (specially
Nico) when and if I decide to remove it from the server.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TwinCommanderFlightGroupFlyIn#
quote="jtaddington(at)verizon.ne"]I dont mind at all and you do it which ever way
you think best.
Jim
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6458#206458
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Hi Bert,
Congratulations on your fine work in collecting all of these great Commander
documents together. You have created a repository which is 'second to none'.
I hope we can all add to it for you over time.
Well done!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 28/9/08 1:32 AM, "BertBerry1(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> Thanks Peter,
>
> If there is something specific that you want to see, send me the caption and
a
> description to make sure I get the right one, and I'll email it to you.
>
> Bert
> ------Original Message------
> From: Peter Bichier
> Sender: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> ReplyTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sep 27, 2008 2:19 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>
>
>
> Berry,
>
> WOW! now THAT's a collection!
>
> just went through the 1st 100s... which confirms my suspicions that the
> figures on the TCFG's web site are not quite exact by the way!... (560E, 680,
> & 500)
>
> One of these days I'll take the time to check them and point out the mistakes.
> Some of the pamphlets though, I can't see with the magnification allowed for
> 'common' users (a card w 3 columns comparing them), if I want to see "full
> screen" it says I have to be a "friend"...
>
> It'll take some time, but I'll check your entire collection!
>
> thanks!
>
> p.
>
> [quote="BertBerry1(at)aol.com"]Let try it this way.
>
> I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the years.
> I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link and let
> me know if it works.
>
> Bert
>
> http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh
> (http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh)
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6409#206409
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
Now (for those who want it) we should print up a binder of the ads.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Legg" <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 1:27 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>
>
> Hi Bert,
>
> Congratulations on your fine work in collecting all of these great
> Commander
> documents together. You have created a repository which is 'second to
> none'.
> I hope we can all add to it for you over time.
>
> Well done!
>
> Cheers from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
> On 28/9/08 1:32 AM, "BertBerry1(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks Peter,
>>
>> If there is something specific that you want to see, send me the caption
>> and a
>> description to make sure I get the right one, and I'll email it to you.
>>
>> Bert
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Peter Bichier
>> Sender: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> ReplyTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Sep 27, 2008 2:19 AM
>> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>>
>>
>>
>> Berry,
>>
>> WOW! now THAT's a collection!
>>
>> just went through the 1st 100s... which confirms my suspicions that the
>> figures on the TCFG's web site are not quite exact by the way!... (560E,
>> 680,
>> & 500)
>>
>> One of these days I'll take the time to check them and point out the
>> mistakes.
>> Some of the pamphlets though, I can't see with the magnification allowed
>> for
>> 'common' users (a card w 3 columns comparing them), if I want to see
>> "full
>> screen" it says I have to be a "friend"...
>>
>> It'll take some time, but I'll check your entire collection!
>>
>> thanks!
>>
>> p.
>>
>> [quote="BertBerry1(at)aol.com"]Let try it this way.
>>
>> I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the
>> years.
>> I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link
>> and let
>> me know if it works.
>>
>> Bert
>>
>> http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh
>> (http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh)
>>
>> --------
>> 560 Dreamer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6409#206409
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
My hope is to one day print a book with all of these.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:51:22
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
Now (for those who want it) we should print up a binder of the ads.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Legg" <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 1:27 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>
>
> Hi Bert,
>
> Congratulations on your fine work in collecting all of these great
> Commander
> documents together. You have created a repository which is 'second to
> none'.
> I hope we can all add to it for you over time.
>
> Well done!
>
> Cheers from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
> On 28/9/08 1:32 AM, "BertBerry1(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks Peter,
>>
>> If there is something specific that you want to see, send me the caption
>> and a
>> description to make sure I get the right one, and I'll email it to you.
>>
>> Bert
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Peter Bichier
>> Sender: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> ReplyTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Sep 27, 2008 2:19 AM
>> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>>
>>
>>
>> Berry,
>>
>> WOW! now THAT's a collection!
>>
>> just went through the 1st 100s... which confirms my suspicions that the
>> figures on the TCFG's web site are not quite exact by the way!... (560E,
>> 680,
>> & 500)
>>
>> One of these days I'll take the time to check them and point out the
>> mistakes.
>> Some of the pamphlets though, I can't see with the magnification allowed
>> for
>> 'common' users (a card w 3 columns comparing them), if I want to see
>> "full
>> screen" it says I have to be a "friend"...
>>
>> It'll take some time, but I'll check your entire collection!
>>
>> thanks!
>>
>> p.
>>
>> [quote="BertBerry1(at)aol.com"]Let try it this way.
>>
>> I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the
>> years.
>> I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link
>> and let
>> me know if it works.
>>
>> Bert
>>
>> http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh
>> (http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh)
>>
>> --------
>> 560 Dreamer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6409#206409
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
Thanks Russell,
I'm still missing a few, so I continue to search for them.
------Original Message------
From: Russell Legg
Sender: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sep 28, 2008 3:27 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
Hi Bert,
Congratulations on your fine work in collecting all of these great Commander
documents together. You have created a repository which is 'second to none'.
I hope we can all add to it for you over time.
Well done!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 28/9/08 1:32 AM, "BertBerry1(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> Thanks Peter,
>
> If there is something specific that you want to see, send me the caption and
a
> description to make sure I get the right one, and I'll email it to you.
>
> Bert
> ------Original Message------
> From: Peter Bichier
> Sender: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> ReplyTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sep 27, 2008 2:19 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>
>
>
> Berry,
>
> WOW! now THAT's a collection!
>
> just went through the 1st 100s... which confirms my suspicions that the
> figures on the TCFG's web site are not quite exact by the way!... (560E, 680,
> & 500)
>
> One of these days I'll take the time to check them and point out the mistakes.
> Some of the pamphlets though, I can't see with the magnification allowed for
> 'common' users (a card w 3 columns comparing them), if I want to see "full
> screen" it says I have to be a "friend"...
>
> It'll take some time, but I'll check your entire collection!
>
> thanks!
>
> p.
>
> [quote="BertBerry1(at)aol.com"]Let try it this way.
>
> I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the years.
> I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link and let
> me know if it works.
>
> Bert
>
> http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh
> (http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh)
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6409#206409
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
>
>
>
>
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
Bert,
This collection is truly fantastic. Thank you so very much for sharing
these with all of us. I am looking foreword to having the time to look at
each one of these.
Again thanks so much.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
--------------------------------------------------
From: <BertBerry1(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>
> My hope is to one day print a book with all of these.
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:51:22
> To:
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>
>
>
>
> Now (for those who want it) we should print up a binder of the ads.
> Tom.
> C-GISS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Russell Legg" <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 1:27 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bert,
>>
>> Congratulations on your fine work in collecting all of these great
>> Commander
>> documents together. You have created a repository which is 'second to
>> none'.
>> I hope we can all add to it for you over time.
>>
>> Well done!
>>
>> Cheers from Oz
>>
>> Russell
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28/9/08 1:32 AM, "BertBerry1(at)aol.com" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Peter,
>>>
>>> If there is something specific that you want to see, send me the caption
>>> and a
>>> description to make sure I get the right one, and I'll email it to you.
>>>
>>> Bert
>>> ------Original Message------
>>> From: Peter Bichier
>>> Sender: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>> ReplyTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Sent: Sep 27, 2008 2:19 AM
>>> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Ads and Brochures
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Berry,
>>>
>>> WOW! now THAT's a collection!
>>>
>>> just went through the 1st 100s... which confirms my suspicions that the
>>> figures on the TCFG's web site are not quite exact by the way!... (560E,
>>> 680,
>>> & 500)
>>>
>>> One of these days I'll take the time to check them and point out the
>>> mistakes.
>>> Some of the pamphlets though, I can't see with the magnification allowed
>>> for
>>> 'common' users (a card w 3 columns comparing them), if I want to see
>>> "full
>>> screen" it says I have to be a "friend"...
>>>
>>> It'll take some time, but I'll check your entire collection!
>>>
>>> thanks!
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> [quote="BertBerry1(at)aol.com"]Let try it this way.
>>>
>>> I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the
>>> years.
>>> I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link
>>> and let
>>> me know if it works.
>>>
>>> Bert
>>>
>>> http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh
>>> (http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh)
>>>
>>> --------
>>> 560 Dreamer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6409#206409
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
Hi all,
Got back to OZ yesterday.
Had a great time at the Fly in. It was great to meet up with all of my old
and new friends.
Jim and Sue did a great job once again. Thank you so much.
To all those that did not make it, TRY A LITTLE HARDER TO BE THERE NEXT
YEAR. It is well worth it.
Within the next couple of weeks Australia will be cowering at the sound of
two screaming GSOs. The old girl will fly for the first time in 15 years and
8 years of hard work. And a considerable amount of cash.
Will keep you all posted.
Cheers
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Deice on that commander? |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
we all know that Sue is working on putting up some of the materials handed out
on the Fly In on the next newsletter, but while I'm still savoring and reading
those, I just scanned more info pertinent to the TKS.
It's again info from John Bosch's Commander Aero Inc.
A pdf should be attached here somewhere.
If you don't get it, just get back to me and I'll forward it to your mail directly.
p.
[quote="rsrandazzo(at)precisionma"]Commanders-
One of the photographs on Petes nice upload of photographs shows what appears to
be either TKS or electrically heated deice on the airplane?
Can any of you who were there elaborate on what type of de-ice was on that airplane?
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6658#206658
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tksxcai_737.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commander Ads and Brochures |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Bert! this is really FUN!
I have only gone through less than half your collection and I just realized I had
never seen the "turbo commander" from 1965! I had seen a 680FLP but never one
that looks like it with turbo props! I mean, round short nose, round wings,
and tail AND turbo props! I just had never seen that, I have NOT seen a single
picture on the web either!
I don't know if that means they've all been converted to 690s, but this is my first
time!
thanks!
p.
[quote="BertBerry1(at)aol.com"]Let try it this way.
I post a lot of the ads and brochures that I have collected over the years.
I'm just having trouble working out the search string. Try this link and let
me know if it works.
Bert
http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh (http://rides.webshots.com/album/567367992SuLlnh)
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenge/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" href="tp://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
> [b]
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6660#206660
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 1st presidential debate |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
I tell you, the Aero Commander spirit is in the air!
Did any one see the presidential debate?
Within seconds the moderator Jim Lehrer opened the questions with a quote from
President Eisenhower in his 1952 campain: "we must achieve both security and solvency,
In fact the foundation of military strength is economic strengh."
and then Senator McCain on a response went on talking about the two letters President
Dwight David Eisenhower wrote on the night of the Normandy invasion to
give an example on accountability.
Amazing how an airplane can connect us with history.
great present for Aero Commander's 60th!
it really must have been big to have a GA plane been approved as Air Force 1.
by the way, can any one id the gentlemen in front of the officer on "my album"
photo # 56?
p.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6672#206672
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Richard and Russell,
I am glad you all made it home safely. It was really fun but next time you
come over Buddy and I are going to work on learning you how to talk Texan so
we can understand what you are saying.
In a couple of weeks I will step out side and see if I can hear those GSOs
purr over here in Denton.
Again it was fun.
Jim Addington
N444BD 500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard &
Jacqui Thompson
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fly in
Hi all,
Got back to OZ yesterday.
Had a great time at the Fly in. It was great to meet up with all of my old
and new friends.
Jim and Sue did a great job once again. Thank you so much.
To all those that did not make it, TRY A LITTLE HARDER TO BE THERE NEXT
YEAR. It is well worth it.
Within the next couple of weeks Australia will be cowering at the sound of
two screaming GSOs. The old girl will fly for the first time in 15 years and
8 years of hard work. And a considerable amount of cash.
Will keep you all posted.
Cheers
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Folks,
Can you estimate postage to Australia, and can you take PayPal, makes
payment easy.
I will be after two.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 4:12 AM
Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Hats
<http://pictures.aol.com/ap/singleImage.do?pid=4980MSFKxyalGwDBcV8lXWY*5JxKu
rU*BvBXv4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D>
<http://pictures.aol.com/ap/singleImage.do?pid=4980MSFKxyalGwDBcV8lXWY*5JxKu
rU*BvBXv4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D> View full size
<http://pictures.aol.com/ap/singleImage.do?pid=4980MSFKxyalGwDBcV8lXWY*5Kmjs
58YpQTEv4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D>
<http://pictures.aol.com/ap/singleImage.do?pid=4980MSFKxyalGwDBcV8lXWY*5Kmjs
58YpQTEv4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D> View full size
<http://pictures.aol.com/ap/singleImage.do?pid=4980MSFKxyalGwDBcV8lXWY*5H1At
ytbIRTSv4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D>
<http://pictures.aol.com/ap/singleImage.do?pid=4980MSFKxyalGwDBcV8lXWY*5H1At
ytbIRTSv4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D> View full size
We recently had some Twin Commander Flight Group Hats made and they are
available to purchase for $10 each plus $5.00 postage. Up to 4 hats can be
purchased for the same postage cost of $5.00. If interested please send an
email to yourtcfg(at)aol.com. Sorry, I'm not the best photographer, but
hopefully you can get a good idea of the colors and type of hat. They come
in tan with blue embroidery, khaki with blue embroidery, navy with red
embroidery and white with red embroidery. And, there is an adjustable strap
on the back.
_____
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow
<http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001> Pages!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1st presidential debate |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Hi Peter,
As you correctly postulated...that is President Eisenhower with his hand on
the Commander!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 29/9/08 11:16 AM, "Peter Bichier" wrote:
>
>
> I tell you, the Aero Commander spirit is in the air!
>
> Did any one see the presidential debate?
>
> Within seconds the moderator Jim Lehrer opened the questions with a quote from
> President Eisenhower in his 1952 campain: "we must achieve both security and
> solvency, In fact the foundation of military strength is economic strengh."
>
> and then Senator McCain on a response went on talking about the two letters
> President Dwight David Eisenhower wrote on the night of the Normandy invasion
> to give an example on accountability.
>
> Amazing how an airplane can connect us with history.
>
> great present for Aero Commander's 60th!
>
> it really must have been big to have a GA plane been approved as Air Force 1.
>
> by the way, can any one id the gentlemen in front of the officer on "my album"
> photo # 56?
>
> p.
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6672#206672
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 1st presidential debate |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Hi Folks,
Please see the fascinating insight from John below on the =8CPresidential
Commander Fleet=B9. John is still unable to write directly to the list.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
------ Forwarded Message
From: John Towner <johntowner(at)centralairsouthwest.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 06:20:04 -0500
Cc: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 1st presidential debate
Russell,
For some reason my computer will not let me e-mail to the chat page but I
can e-mail to individuals. As a follow up one of our pilots on his layover
in Joplin MO found a book in a used book store for $.25USD "The Flying Whit
e
House" that told the story of how President Eisenhower came to like Aero
Commander and how he made his "Secret Service" pilots go to Bethany and the
m
checkout. The story goes that they actually purchased 15 Commanders total.
If you will send me your address down under in OZ I will send you a copy of
the pages from the book that tell the story. If you want to share this
e-mail with the chat page it is fine with me. I will copy Sir Barry in too
our "Commander Historian"for he might enjoy the story but very possibly
already knows the story.
YOUR old FRIEND,
John Towner :-)
Russell Legg wrote:
>
u>
>
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> As you correctly postulated...that is President Eisenhower with his hand
on
> the Commander!
>
> Cheers from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
>
> On 29/9/08 11:16 AM, "Peter Bichier"
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I tell you, the Aero Commander spirit is in the air!
>>
>> Did any one see the presidential debate?
>>
>> Within seconds the moderator Jim Lehrer opened the questions with a quot
e
>> from
>> President Eisenhower in his 1952 campain: "we must achieve both security
and
>> solvency, In fact the foundation of military strength is economic streng
h."
>>
>> and then Senator McCain on a response went on talking about the two lett
ers
>> President Dwight David Eisenhower wrote on the night of the Normandy inv
asion
>> to give an example on accountability.
>>
>> Amazing how an airplane can connect us with history.
>>
>> great present for Aero Commander's 60th!
>>
>> it really must have been big to have a GA plane been approved as Air For
ce 1.
>>
>> by the way, can any one id the gentlemen in front of the officer on "my
>> album"
>> photo # 56?
>>
>> p.
>>
>> --------
>> 560 Dreamer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6672#206672
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------ End of Forwarded Message
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Bill,
Thanks for your interest in the hats.? The best rate for postage to Australia would
be $10 and would?arrive in? 1-2 weeks.? If you want to order please let me
know which colors you want and an address to ship them to.?
You can pay via paypal to:? suemetzger(at)aol.com.?
Thanks
~jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hamilton <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 7:15 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: TCFG Hats
Folks,
Can you estimate postage to Australia, and can you take PayPal, makes payment easy.
I will be after two.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
?
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 4:12 AM
Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Hats
?
View full size
?
View full size
?
View full size
?
We recently had some Twin Commander Flight Group Hats made and they are available
to purchase for $10 each plus $5.00 postage.? Up to 4 hats can be purchased
for the same postage cost of $5.00.? If interested please send an email to yourtcfg(at)aol.com.?
Sorry, I'm not the best photographer, but hopefully you can get
a good idea of the colors and type of hat.? They come in tan with blue embroidery,
khaki with blue embroidery, navy with red embroidery and white with red
embroidery.? And, there is an adjustable strap on the back.?
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages!
?
?
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Don't know why but Picasa keeps on changing the link... hopefully one LAST time!
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TwinCommanderFlightGroupFlyIn#
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6800#206800
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All,
I've just returned home earlier today and would like to echo the thanks
made to JimBob & Susan for organising another really great Fly-In.
I would also like to give special & sincere thanks to Susan for all the
hard work put in behind the scenes.
It is so easy to think that these events run themselves, but I know that
it's really like watching a duck swimming.
It looks so serene as it appears to swim effortlessly by, but nobody
sees those feet working like heck under the water's surface.
As usual, there were many great & treasured memories to bring home.
To be with so many great, generous and humourous people is a true honour
and I'm already looking forward to next year!
I'd also like to add a very special "Thank You" to John Moss & Buddy
Wyndham for their kindness and generosity at the auction.
The exchange of emails re the Golden Pedal Award between Moe & JimBob
was really funny and I'm still giggling away as I type this.
I stayed on in OKC after the Fly-In and thought I'd share details of a
great car sticker I saw one evening.
It had an American Flag in the top left-hand corner and some kind of
military badge top-right.
Underneath these was written "Two colors that will never run".
Awesome humor, but so very apt.
Lastly, I made contact with what, to me, was a new outfit in OKC, being
Alliance Air Parts (http://www.allianceairparts.com/)
They have a 690 and a 690B that are being parted out and were most
helpful when I dropped in on them 10 minutes before they closed.
I know we haven't got that many Turbine owners on the List, but there
may be some commonality with parts for the Piston guys.
Barry Collman
UK CommanderLand Rep.
High Wycombe, England
"Live life on the edge - if you don't take up too much space"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Furnishings Question... |
Commanders-
I was doing some in-depth cabin cleanup this past weekend and noticed that
the cockpit seats in N414C provide very little protection from head injury.
The seat backs flip forward without any restraint catch, and there are no
headrests. I have shoulder harnesses, but they wouldn't appear to serve
much purpose in a deceleration incident because the whole seat back leans
forward- thus they don't offer much protection from smacking the noggin' on
the coaming panel or yoke.
I realize that these are original equipment- but it got me to wondering if
there are more modern seats that don't fold forward like the older seats?
Anyone know?
Second item: I'm wondering if anyone can point me toward a good source for
purchasing replacement plastic liners for the cockpit? Mine are in mostly
good shape- but since we've re-done everything else in the airplane- they
are looking a bit ratty in comparison to the rest of the airplane..
Specifically I'm thinking of the side panels for the pilot/copilot side
windows, and the three or four pieces that make up the portion directly over
head.
Third Item: Anyone know where I can pick up a good new lens cover for the
tail position lights on a 685? Mine is serviceable, but cloudy and
yellowed- so it looks bad. Thought it might be a nice touch to replace it
with a good clean one.
All suggestions welcome! Thanks everyone!
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Furnishings Question... |
Robert,
The interior plastic is not to my knowledge available new, and
unfortunately, most of the used pieces that can be found are in pretty
sad shape. Most of us have repaired the plastic and then covered it
with leather or some type of FAA approved fabric. Aircraft leather can
be purchased from Mayfield or a few other sources. That is the reason
that so many older planes have the 'total leather interior look' on the
inside.
Although headrests really look cool they may be of dubious help in a
crash, as few airplanes back into the ground, or get rear-ended. It is
not legal to drill holes in the seats to mount headrests, I have been
told that if you remove the upholstery on the seat backs you can find
the original holes from the factory, in case the seats were to be
installed in a Shrike with head rests.
Do your shoulder harnesses mount to the seat only, or do they mount to
the cabin, and are they factory original or after market?
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: Robert S. Randazzo
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 4:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Furnishings Question...
Commanders-
I was doing some in-depth cabin cleanup this past weekend and noticed
that the cockpit seats in N414C provide very little protection from
head injury. The seat backs flip forward without any restraint catch,
and there are no headrests. I have shoulder harnesses, but they
wouldn't appear to serve much purpose in a deceleration incident because
the whole seat back leans forward- thus they don't offer much protection
from smacking the noggin' on the coaming panel or yoke.
I realize that these are original equipment- but it got me to wondering
if there are more modern seats that don't fold forward like the older
seats? Anyone know?
Second item: I'm wondering if anyone can point me toward a good source
for purchasing replacement plastic liners for the cockpit? Mine are in
mostly good shape- but since we've re-done everything else in the
airplane- they are looking a bit ratty in comparison to the rest of the
airplane.. Specifically I'm thinking of the side panels for the
pilot/copilot side windows, and the three or four pieces that make up
the portion directly over head.
Third Item: Anyone know where I can pick up a good new lens cover for
the tail position lights on a 685? Mine is serviceable, but cloudy and
yellowed- so it looks bad. Thought it might be a nice touch to replace
it with a good clean one.
All suggestions welcome! Thanks everyone!
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Furnishings Question... |
Moe-
Thanks- I suspected this might be the case with the plastics.
Few airplanes back into the ground? You obviously aren't giving me enough
creativity for my flying. :-p
I was thinking of the headrests more in terms of my own comfort while flying
when it comes to headrests. I didn't make that clear.
The shoulder harnesses appear to be original factory. I read this week on
the TCAC website that they have new harnesses available and they are about
$2500/set- but mine work fine in operation. It is the way the seat folds
forward that I thought was strange for the cockpit of an airplane.
Rob
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Moe-rosspistons
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Furnishings Question...
Robert,
The interior plastic is not to my knowledge available new, and
unfortunately, most of the used pieces that can be found are in pretty sad
shape. Most of us have repaired the plastic and then covered it with
leather or some type of FAA approved fabric. Aircraft leather can be
purchased from Mayfield or a few other sources. That is the reason that so
many older planes have the 'total leather interior look' on the inside.
Although headrests really look cool they may be of dubious help in a crash,
as few airplanes back into the ground, or get rear-ended. It is not legal
to drill holes in the seats to mount headrests, I have been told that if you
remove the upholstery on the seat backs you can find the original holes from
the factory, in case the seats were to be installed in a Shrike with head
rests.
Do your shoulder harnesses mount to the seat only, or do they mount to the
cabin, and are they factory original or after market?
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: Robert S. Randazzo <mailto:rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 4:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Furnishings Question...
Commanders-
I was doing some in-depth cabin cleanup this past weekend and noticed that
the cockpit seats in N414C provide very little protection from head injury.
The seat backs flip forward without any restraint catch, and there are no
headrests. I have shoulder harnesses, but they wouldn't appear to serve
much purpose in a deceleration incident because the whole seat back leans
forward- thus they don't offer much protection from smacking the noggin' on
the coaming panel or yoke.
I realize that these are original equipment- but it got me to wondering if
there are more modern seats that don't fold forward like the older seats?
Anyone know?
Second item: I'm wondering if anyone can point me toward a good source for
purchasing replacement plastic liners for the cockpit? Mine are in mostly
good shape- but since we've re-done everything else in the airplane- they
are looking a bit ratty in comparison to the rest of the airplane..
Specifically I'm thinking of the side panels for the pilot/copilot side
windows, and the three or four pieces that make up the portion directly over
head.
Third Item: Anyone know where I can pick up a good new lens cover for the
tail position lights on a 685? Mine is serviceable, but cloudy and
yellowed- so it looks bad. Thought it might be a nice touch to replace it
with a good clean one.
All suggestions welcome! Thanks everyone!
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Furnishings Question... |
Good Afternoon Rob,
My knowledge of the Commander structure is somewhere between nil and zilch,
but the FAA has been very friendly toward adding shoulder harnesses where
there are none or where the current arrangement is flawed.
I imagine installing an improved shoulder harness would be something they
would encourage as well. If the current shoulder harness serves only to hold
you
in that seat which will fold forward during a deceleration, I wonder if it
might not be a good idea to install new seat belts which fasten to the prim
ary
structure?
Many Bonanzas built during the same time as the Commanders were built have
rather poor shoulder harness arrangements There are aftermarket devices that
are much better. A company called BAS (_http://www.basinc-aeromod.com/_
(http://www.basinc-aeromod.com/) ) makes a very nice inertial reel based se
t that
attaches to the primary overhead structure. If I had a Commander, I think I
would see if the BAS units might not provide much greater safety. It is my
completely non expert understanding that shoulder harnesses that are attach
ed to a
point at or below one's shoulder tend to cause compression fractures in our
spines during rapid deceleration events. Having the harness secured to the
top of the cabin alleviates that force.
Worth a look?
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/4/2008 12:01:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:
The shoulder harnesses appear to be original factory. I read this week on
the TCAC website that they have new harnesses available and they are about
$2500/set- but mine work fine in operation. It is the way the seat folds
forward that I thought was strange for the cockpit of an airplane
Rob
New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining,
Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Registration and Owner history |
Hi Willis,
If an aircraft is currently-registered, it is possible to buy a CD-ROM
from the FAA that will have .PDF files of all the paperwork that has
been filed.
If you go to:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/
then click on "N-Number", you can enter the N number of the aircraft in
question.
When the page loads, scroll down to the "Airworthiness" section and by
clicking on the link http://162.58.35.241/e.gov/ND/airrecordsND.asp
you can order the CD-ROM, which will cost $10 per aircraft.
Alternatively, you can visit the Public Documents room in the Registry
Building at the FAA facility on Will Rogers Airport in Oklahoma City.
There are two "Walk Up" PCs in that room, where with some help, you can
view the .PDF files of the documents in the file.
To get to the PD Room though, you'll have to get a Visitors Pass and
Parking Permit from the Security Building before entering the FAA
complex.
You'll have to go through an airport-style scanning process though and
take some i/d with you.
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 4:09 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Registration and Owner history
Im trying to research the ownership history of a particular
aircraft. Is this information available through the FAA? Is it
accessible to the public? If so, can anyone explain how to research
this.
thanks in advance.
drwer2
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Peter,
One other minor correction is that "Murduck" should read "Murdock".
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
Hi Peter,
Thank you for posting your pictures for everyone to enjoy. It was a
pleasure meeting you and your enthusiasm for Commanders is infectious.
Here's the answers to your questions.
- The Chief Engineer that came with Bill McGinnis was Ken Hale. His
signature is on almost all of the Service Letters from the factory. He
was at the factory from serial number 1 to the last one. WOW!!!
- Amis' grandson's name is Dave Amis. The lady with him was a
girlfriend and I'm sorry that I don't recall her name either.
- I'll send you Danny's contact info in a private email.
Some other corrections on the captions are that Stan's last name is
Perkins (not Perk) and Bob Murduck's wife's name is Sonnie.
Good job with the pictures!!!
We plan to include some of the handouts with the next newsletter for
all members to enjoy.
Thanks Again,
Jim & Sue
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:57 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
Sorry me again,
I'm missing a couple of people -captions for the album:
Who was the Aero Commander Chief Engineer that came along with Bill
McGinnins
and that worked for the plant & Co. throughout the production life of
these
birds?
He is on #201
What about Amis brother's grand son? great guy too, but I just don't
remember
his name or his wife... I know you can blame it on the wine and the
susspens of
the auction! but hey, not too many blurry pics!
He is on #215
Has anyone Danny Davis's email or phone contact? Danny, are you also
part of the
group or on this forum? He's all around these pics and he is also
interested in
sharing the groups experience with the Oklahoma Pilot Association. He
also has
the oldest bird around...
The album seems to be working out now, and should see some kind of
captions, as
you scroll them; otherwise poste it, and I'll update it.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-
EOO0uVDMwU2g#[/quote]
:?
take care all,
OK, done with my home work for the time been...
p.
Peter Bichier wrote:
> For those who where there, here is an opportunity to see what really
happened!
>
> There was so much going on that it was even hard to take time off to
take
pictures...
>
> Been the new comer I took the leisure to step back a bit and be the
external
eyes of the group.
>
> If any of those pictures interest you (Sue/Jim) for the up coming
newsletter
let me know! (Barry, Russell) here is what I have, so just point out
what you
want to have me send you your way.
>
> Good night folks, and have fun!
>
> thanks again all!
>
> p.
>
>
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG?pli=1&gsessionid=v_1_HAHeT-
EOO0uVDMwU2g#
:?
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6061#206061
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Shoulder harness |
Robert
-
I installed the BAS inertials in a 172 that we revamped last year.- They
are STC'd for 172's but they told me that you can get field approvals for T
C's- I really like mine and believe they are the best available as they a
ttach to the ceiling.- If I ever get around to renewing my French Bordell
o I intend to-install them.
dan farmer=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shoulder harness |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Turns out that the FAA will allow, in most cases, ?the installation of shoulder
harness as a minor modification.?
get field approvals for TC's?
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:13 am
Subject: Commander-List: Shoulder harness
Robert
?
I installed the BAS inertials in a 172 that we revamped last year.? They are STC'd
for 172's but they told me that you can get field approvals for TC's? I really
like mine and believe they are the best available as they attach to the ceiling.?
If I ever get around to renewing my French Bordello I intend to?install
them.
dan farmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The Flying White House |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Hi everyone,
John Towner kindly sent me three pages from "The Flying White House" book which
talks how President Eisenhower pressured his secret services to get him an airplane
to go to his Gettysburg, Penn. farm in 1955.
you should be able to read the pages well enough, if it's too small, just use the
zoom function on the album viewer.
There are lots of trivia in there, for ex., the present colors of AF1 might have
been heavily influenced by that very first 560 leased by Ike (N2724B) ironically,
just seven 560s earlier was the one my father owned...!
enjoy, and thanks John for sending that along.
http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TheFlyingWhiteHouse?pli=1&gsessionid=Ia4iFemwr1aeiodiJDDHiQ#
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7794#207794
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Flying White House |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
John Towner can't post on the forum so I'll add this for him.
He thinks President Eisenhower found out about the Aero Commander when they flew
it from PWA-DCA on one engine and it gained National attention. (I will add
then, the publicity stunt worked!)
He also have heard that Ike was a pilot and obtained his private pilots license
in a Stearman when he was a young man.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7804#207804
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Mathieu" <tmathieu(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Needing assistance with a part |
Gentlemen:
I am needing two fuel vent heating elements for my 1972 Shrike. The part
#
is 100 201J. I was wondering if anyone might have a clue as to where I
might
find these. My mechanic is informing me that both have burned out. I
find it
difficult to believe they would have both burned out at the same time.
Is
there any other aspect of this problem that we might be overlooking that
would cause both of them to stop operating upline somewhere. The
mathematical odds of this happening seem quite remote to me. Any
assistance
would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Tommy Mathieu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike floyd <floydgm(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Needing assistance with a part |
Tommy=2C
They have thermostats in them. Cool them down with a cup of ice water and
then test them. You can put a ohm meter on them and watch as the thermostat
closes too.
Mike
From: tmathieu(at)MSN.COMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Commander-Li
st: Needing assistance with a partDate: Tue=2C 7 Oct 2008 15:21:43 -0500
Gentlemen:
I am needing two fuel vent heating elements for my 1972 Shrike. The part #
is 100 201J. I was wondering if anyone might have a clue as to where I migh
t find these. My mechanic is informing me that both have burned out. I find
it difficult to believe they would have both burned out at the same time.
Is there any other aspect of this problem that we might be overlooking that
would cause both of them to stop operating upline somewhere. The mathemati
cal odds of this happening seem quite remote to me. Any assistance would be
greatly appreciated.
Sincerely=2C
Tommy Mathieu
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up to date on your PC=2C the Web=2C and your mobile phone with Windows
Live.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey everyone, does anyone know the-official place to get same on Commande
r aircraft values such as the "Blue book".=0AThanks,=0A-=0ADonnie Rose
=0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Donnie-
Only place I've ever seen was Vref on the AOPA site- but I find it to be
incredibly under-valued for any airplane I've ever plugged in.
So much so that I think it's a disservice.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: Commander-List: values
Hey everyone, does anyone know the official place to get same on Commander
aircraft values such as the "Blue book".
Thanks,
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
The best way to determine value is watch what they are selling for over a 3-4 month
period,
Right now I would not want to be selling one.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7876#207876
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks Robert, I'm trying to combat the taxman... =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose
=0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Robert S.
Randazzo =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.
com=0ASent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 12:06:02 AM=0ASubject: RE: Commander
-List: values=0A=0A=0ADonnie-=0A-=0AOnly place I=92ve ever seen was Vref
on the AOPA site-- but I find it to be incredibly under-valued for any ai
rplane I=92ve ever plugged in=85=0A-=0ASo much so that I think it=92s a d
isservice=85=0A-=0ARobert S. Randazzo=0AN414C=0A-=0AFrom:owner-commande
r-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.c
om] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:18 PM=0ATo
: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Commander-List: values=0A-=0AHe
y everyone, does anyone know the-official place to get same on Commander
aircraft values such as the "Blue book".=0AThanks,=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A2
05/492-8444=0A-=0A-=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
Commander-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/con
===============0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Donnie-
Then I take it all back. It's the perfect tool. J
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: values
Thanks Robert, I'm trying to combat the taxman...
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: Robert S. Randazzo <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 12:06:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: values
Donnie-
Only place I've ever seen was Vref on the AOPA site- but I find it to be
incredibly under-valued for any airplane I've ever plugged in.
So much so that I think it's a disservice.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: Commander-List: values
Hey everyone, does anyone know the official place to get same on Commander
aircraft values such as the "Blue book".
Thanks,
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://for -->
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
Don,
-
If you've never had your plane appraised, (for insurance purposes or for sa
le) then you will likely need one.- they aren't cheap, but are worth the
effort. I presume you're working on either personal property taxes or sales
taxes, both are dependent on professional opinions.-
-
there is not a single organization that regulates all AC appraisers, but NA
AA is a good place to start.- http://www.plane-values.com/index.php
-
Look around, If you dont need a full blown appraisal then the AOPA- "Valu
e" may work.- Keep in mind that the reason they are often LOW is that the
y make you LUMP together all those mods youve done over the years.- The c
heckboxes for standard or commercially available equipment is easy enough f
or a web-page, but the detail modifications can only be judged by you or an
experienced appraiser.
-
good luck.
-
Willis
--- On Wed, 10/8/08, Robert S. Randazzo w
rote:
From: Robert S. Randazzo <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: values
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 10:36 AM
Donnie-
-
Then I take it all back.- It=92s the perfect tool.- J
-
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: values
-
Thanks Robert, I'm trying to combat the taxman...
-
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
-
-
-
----- Original Message ----
From: Robert S. Randazzo <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 12:06:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: values
Donnie-
-
Only place I=92ve ever seen was Vref on the AOPA site-- but I find it to
be incredibly under-valued for any airplane I=92ve ever plugged in=85
-
So much so that I think it=92s a disservice=85
-
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: Commander-List: values
-
Hey everyone, does anyone know the-official place to get same on Commande
r aircraft values such as the "Blue book".
Thanks,
-
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
-
--- -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums
.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution - -http://for--
-->
--http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matron
ics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution -
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Needing assistance with a part |
Tom,
If I were you I would have them removed and then bench test them with a
power supply. Some time ago, I had a similar situation with the lift
detector heater (aka stall warning horn). Turned out to be a corroded
sorderless terminal.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
PROUD HOLDER OF THE GOLDEN PEDAL AWARD 2008
From: Tommy Mathieu
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 1:21 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Needing assistance with a part
Gentlemen:
I am needing two fuel vent heating elements for my 1972 Shrike. The part
# is 100 201J. I was wondering if anyone might have a clue as to where I
might find these. My mechanic is informing me that both have burned out.
I find it difficult to believe they would have both burned out at the
same time. Is there any other aspect of this problem that we might be
overlooking that would cause both of them to stop operating upline
somewhere. The mathematical odds of this happening seem quite remote to
me. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Tommy Mathieu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks Willis, will do =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>=0A
PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: values=0A=0A=0ADon,=0A=0AIf you've never
had your plane appraised, (for insurance purposes or for sale) then you wi
ll likely need one.- they aren't cheap, but are worth the effort. I presu
me you're working on either personal property taxes or sales taxes, both ar
e dependent on professional opinions.- =0A=0Athere is not a single organi
zation that regulates all AC appraisers, but NAAA is a good place to start.
- http://www.plane-values.com/index.php=0A=0ALook around, If you dont nee
d a full blown appraisal then the AOPA- "Value" may work.- Keep in mind
that the reason they are often LOW is that they make you LUMP together all
those mods youve done over the years.- The checkboxes for standard or co
mmercially available equipment is easy enough for a web-page, but the detai
l modifications can only be judged by you or an experienced appraiser.=0A
=0Agood luck.=0A=0AWillis=0A=0A--- On Wed, 10/8/08, Robert S. Randazzo =0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: values=0ATo: comma
nder-list(at)matronics.com=0ADate: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 10:36 AM=0A=0A
=0ADonnie-=0A-=0AThen I take it all back.- It=92s the perfect tool.-
J =0A- =0ARobert S. Randazzo =0AN414C =0A- =0AFrom:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:01 AM=0ATo: co
mmander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: values=0A- =0AT
hanks Robert, I'm trying to combat the taxman... =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose
=0A205/492-8444=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Rob
ert S. Randazzo =0ATo: commander-list@matr
onics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 12:06:02 AM=0ASubject: RE: Com
mander-List: values=0ADonnie-=0A- =0AOnly place I=92ve ever seen was Vref
on the AOPA site-- but I find it to be incredibly under-valued for any a
irplane I=92ve ever plugged in=85 =0A- =0ASo much so that I think it=92s
a disservice=85 =0A- =0ARobert S. Randazzo =0AN414C =0A- =0AFrom:owner-
commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:18
PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Commander-List: values=0A
- =0AHey everyone, does anyone know the-official place to get same on C
ommander aircraft values such as the "Blue book".=0AThanks,=0A-=0ADonnie
Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A-=0A-=0A--=0A -=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Commander-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matron
ics.com/contribution=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp://for-- --> =0A=0A=0A-=0A
-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=0Ahttp://forums.mat
ronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A -=0A=0A=0A" target
=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
=0A=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com=0Ablank rel=nofollow>http://ww
=======================0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
Yes It sounded like it, safe flying. =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-844
4=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Robert S. Randazzo <rsr
andazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: We
dnesday, October 8, 2008 12:36:57 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: values
=0A=0A=0ADonnie-=0A-=0AThen I take it all back.- It=92s the perfect too
l.- J=0A-=0ARobert S. Randazzo=0AN414C=0A-=0AFrom:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] O
n Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:01 AM=0ATo: c
ommander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: values=0A-=0AT
hanks Robert, I'm trying to combat the taxman... =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose
=0A205/492-8444=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Rob
ert S. Randazzo =0ATo: commander-list@matr
onics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 12:06:02 AM=0ASubject: RE: Com
mander-List: values=0ADonnie-=0A-=0AOnly place I=92ve ever seen was Vref
on the AOPA site-- but I find it to be incredibly under-valued for any ai
rplane I=92ve ever plugged in=85=0A-=0ASo much so that I think it=92s a d
isservice=85=0A-=0ARobert S. Randazzo=0AN414C=0A-=0AFrom:owner-commande
r-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.c
om] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:18 PM=0ATo
: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Commander-List: values=0A-=0AHe
y everyone, does anyone know the-official place to get same on Commander
aircraft values such as the "Blue book".=0AThanks,=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A2
05/492-8444=0A-=0A-=0A--=0A -=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Commander-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp://for-- --> =0A=0A=0A-=0A-=0Ahttp:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bud Williams" <rambud(at)windstream.net> |
Donnie,
Go to Trade-a-Plane. They have an NAAA aircraft evaluation tool that is much
more in-depth (it actually allows you to add in aircraft modifications as
well as all sorts of avionics upgrades). It is a MUCH better tool than the
"Vref Lite" that is on AOPA's web site.
Bud
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: values
Yes It sounded like it, safe flying.
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: Robert S. Randazzo <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 12:36:57 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: values
Donnie-
Then I take it all back. It's the perfect tool. :-)
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: values
Thanks Robert, I'm trying to combat the taxman...
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
----- Original Message ----
From: Robert S. Randazzo <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 12:06:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: values
Donnie-
Only place I've ever seen was Vref on the AOPA site- but I find it to be
incredibly under-valued for any airplane I've ever plugged in.
So much so that I think it's a disservice.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: Commander-List: values
Hey everyone, does anyone know the official place to get same on Commander
aircraft values such as the "Blue book".
Thanks,
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://for -->
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ator?Commander-List" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.cocs.com/" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
rel=nofollow>http://w======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> |
Thank Bud, will do.=0AHave a good one,=0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-84
44=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Bud Williams <rambud@w
indstream.net>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October
9, 2008 9:25:32 AM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: values=0A=0A=0ADonnie,
=0A-=0AGo to Trade-a-Plane. They have an NAAA aircraft evaluation tool th
at is much more in-depth (it actually allows you to add in aircraft modific
ations as well as all sorts of avionics upgrades). It is a MUCH better tool
than the =93Vref Lite=94 that is on AOPA=92s web site.=0A-=0ABud=0A-
=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:owner-commander-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behal
f Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:41 PM=0ATo: commande
r-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: values=0A-=0AYes It s
ounded like it, safe flying. =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A-
=0A-=0A-=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Robert S. Randazzo <rsra
ndazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed
nesday, October 8, 2008 12:36:57 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: values
=0ADonnie-=0A-=0AThen I take it all back.- It=92s the perfect tool.-
J=0A-=0ARobert S. Randazzo=0AN414C=0A-=0AFrom:owner-commander-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Beha
lf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:01 AM=0ATo: command
er-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: values=0A-=0AThanks
Robert, I'm trying to combat the taxman... =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/4
92-8444=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Robert S. R
andazzo =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.co
m=0ASent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 12:06:02 AM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-L
ist: values=0ADonnie-=0A-=0AOnly place I=92ve ever seen was Vref on the A
OPA site-- but I find it to be incredibly under-valued for any airplane I
=92ve ever plugged in=85=0A-=0ASo much so that I think it=92s a disservic
e=85=0A-=0ARobert S. Randazzo=0AN414C=0A-=0AFrom:owner-commander-list-s
erver(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On B
ehalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:18 PM=0ATo: comman
der-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Commander-List: values=0A-=0AHey everyo
ne, does anyone know the-official place to get same on Commander aircraft
values such as the "Blue book".=0AThanks,=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8
444=0A-=0A-=0A--=0A -=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Comman
der-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp://for-- --> =0A=0A=0A-=0A-=0Ahttp://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp:/
/www.matronics.com/contribution=0A -=0A -=0Aator?Commander-List" target
=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.cocs.com/" target=_blank re
l=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com=0A -=0A-=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp:
=======================0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Commanderland;
Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com anything on
the HHO, which is the process of electrolysis to break down water into H
& O and feeding it into the air intake. Some make claims of 30% up to
several hundred per cent increase in gas mileage including using it on
an 18 wheeler to double the mileage. I was talking to my Commander and
my Credit Card and both thought it would be a good idea. Has anyone
looked into this in the auto industry and other than the FAA, would it
work in Commanders, probably take several units. Just thinking out
loud.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
Most of the stuff on YouTube is crap. The in Japan and Canada truckers use
a commercial version that is about $3000 for and all stainless unit capable
of running enough Brown's gas for a decent fuel supplement. The
complicating factor with engines since the first 70's gas crunch is O2
sensors and computers. To appreciate the benefit of the gas you must add a
couple hundred millivolts boost to the signal going to the computer to
compensate for the cleaner burning.
Two other important issues. DO NOT hook to the intake as all that happens
is you create a vacuum and you get steam with is already expanded water and
hurts mileage. Hook to the aircleaner on the side before the aircleaner.
This helps to diffuse the Hydroxy gas and does not create the vacuum.
I am anal about monitoring and have replaced the cassette area in my '02
Suburban with a custom instrument panel. It has.
4 air/fuel ratio gauges. Two that show what is actually going on in the
exhaust and two that show what the computer is seeing after the circuit
board that I made. ( two because you must cheat both O2 sensors in front of
the cat converters ) and I have the all important EGT gauge which is the
most important to prevent over leaning. At 80% or more throttle it is not
important as the computer goes to closed loop and dumps full rich fuel in
anyway. Only on the highway is this important. Then I have a ammeter to
monitor the DC motor controller as you have to adjust the current going to
the hydrolyzer. (( as it heats up resistance reduces ( unlike an ordinary
electric circuit where resistance increases)) You can have thermal runaway.
The most important is don't be a dumbass like the morons selling the crap on
eBay and use baking soda. It becomes part of the chemical process during
hydrolysis and you end up with chlorine gas coming out the tailpipe. Use
potash or (LYE for making soap) it stays in solution and you must only
replace the water in the booster.
Hope this answers a few questions.
Victor
emailsigflat
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:48 PM
Subject: Commander-List: HHO
Commanderland;
Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com anything on the
HHO, which is the process of electrolysis to break down water into H & O and
feeding it into the air intake. Some make claims of 30% up to several
hundred per cent increase in gas mileage including using it on an 18 wheeler
to double the mileage. I was talking to my Commander and my Credit Card and
both thought it would be a good idea. Has anyone looked into this in the
auto industry and other than the FAA, would it work in Commanders, probably
take several units. Just thinking out loud.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Don,
A friend of mine and I were talking about it and he says it is 34 times as
efficient
as gas and it did not sound that hard to do. He was interested in getting a
car to run on it. One problem is if the Hydrogen leaks past the rings it
gets into the crank case and can cause a really big explosion. I talked to
one of my late wife's cousins and he said he and some of his friends got a
lawn mower to work on it. I was very surprised at how simple it is and
wonder why some one is not really pushing hard for it. The friend is really
good at electronics and said it could be done for less than $100. He has a
certain amount of BS to him but he is a very smart person.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:48 PM
Subject: Commander-List: HHO
Commanderland;
Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com anything on the
HHO, which is the process of electrolysis to break down water into H & O and
feeding it into the air intake. Some make claims of 30% up to several
hundred per cent increase in gas mileage including using it on an 18 wheeler
to double the mileage. I was talking to my Commander and my Credit Card and
both thought it would be a good idea. Has anyone looked into this in the
auto industry and other than the FAA, would it work in Commanders, probably
take several units. Just thinking out loud.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
And you wonder why they dont let pilots work on aircraft......
-
--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jim Addington wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HHO
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 9:17 PM
Don,
A friend of mine and I were talking about it and he says it is 34 times as
efficient
as gas and it did not sound that hard to do. He was interested in getting a
car to run on it. One problem is if the Hydrogen leaks past the rings it g
ets into the crank case and can cause a really big explosion. I talked to o
ne of my late wife=A2s cousins and he said he and some of his friends got a
lawn mower to work on it. I was very surprised at how simple it is and won
der why some one is not really pushing hard for it. The friend is really go
od at electronics and said it could be done for less than $100. He has a ce
rtain amount of BS to him but he is a very smart person.
Jim
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:48 PM
Subject: Commander-List: HHO
-
Commanderland;
-
Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com anything on the
HHO, which is the process of electrolysis to break down water into H & O an
d feeding it into the air intake.- Some make claims of 30% up to several
hundred per cent increase in gas mileage including using it on an 18 wheele
r to double the mileage.- I was talking to my Commander and my Credit Car
d and both thought it would be a good idea.- Has anyone looked into this
in the auto industry and other than the FAA, would it work in Commanders, p
robably take several units.-- Just thinking out loud.
-
Don - ---------- - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-------------- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ---> http
://forums.matronics.com------------ - List Contribu
tion Web Site ---------------------
--------- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
Don wrote:
>
> Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com
> <http://www.youtube.com> anything on the HHO, which is the process of
> electrolysis to break down water into H & O and feeding it into the
> air intake.
I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who think this will
work (no personal insult intended Don).
Let's take as a given that "burning" a fuel releases energy. In a
piston engine, some of this energy is turned into mechanical motion, but
a lot is lost to heat. Net loss in the energy conversion - agreed? Now
we take that mechanical motion and generate electricity. Quite a bit of
energy lost in that conversion as well. Now we take the electricity and
via electrolysis, split a molecule. Certainly a net loss of energy
there as well, not to mention that even a huge electrolysis cell
generates a tiny amount of hydrogen unless fed *huge* amounts of
electricity. Next we're going to take that fuel we created by so many
lossy steps, burn it, and get more energy out than we put into it's
creation ?????
chris
ps: I have some "carbon offsets" I'm willing to sell cheap. I'll take
$45/flight hour for them. Less than 75 hours available, so get 'em quick.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Chris;
I have read a great deal of the arguments, and I realize there is no such
thing as 'perpetual motion', this said, I have also read many things that
were quote 'impossible' until, something was changed and then it worked,
Mr. Firestone comes to mind with I believe it was sulfur, as well as Mr.
Edison and carbon. So I usually don't just 'write something off', just
because so far it hasn't worked. I also read that God probably made the
perfect compressed hydrogen, its call H2O, something like 1,800 to one
compressions. I try and keep and open mind, one day I firmly believe, a
revolutionary change will happen to greatly improve our internal combustions
engine.
No thanks on the 'carbon credits', I can just put the money in the NYSE, but
I prefer gold.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>
> Don wrote:
>>
>> Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com
>> <http://www.youtube.com> anything on the HHO, which is the process of
>> electrolysis to break down water into H & O and feeding it into the
>> air intake.
>
> I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who think this will
> work (no personal insult intended Don).
> Let's take as a given that "burning" a fuel releases energy. In a
> piston engine, some of this energy is turned into mechanical motion, but
> a lot is lost to heat. Net loss in the energy conversion - agreed? Now
> we take that mechanical motion and generate electricity. Quite a bit of
> energy lost in that conversion as well. Now we take the electricity and
> via electrolysis, split a molecule. Certainly a net loss of energy
> there as well, not to mention that even a huge electrolysis cell
> generates a tiny amount of hydrogen unless fed *huge* amounts of
> electricity. Next we're going to take that fuel we created by so many
> lossy steps, burn it, and get more energy out than we put into it's
> creation ?????
>
>
> chris
>
> ps: I have some "carbon offsets" I'm willing to sell cheap. I'll take
> $45/flight hour for them. Less than 75 hours available, so get 'em quick.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
7:19 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
I thought they did, have lots of pilot friends who are also A&P and also
AI's.
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HHO
And you wonder why they dont let pilots work on aircraft......
--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jim Addington
wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HHO
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 9:17 PM
Don,
A friend of mine and I were talking about it and he says it is
34 times as efficient
as gas and it did not sound that hard to do. He was interested
in getting a car to run on it. One problem is if the Hydrogen leaks past
the rings it gets into the crank case and can cause a really big
explosion. I talked to one of my late wife=A2s cousins and he said he
and some of his friends got a lawn mower to work on it. I was very
surprised at how simple it is and wonder why some one is not really
pushing hard for it. The friend is really good at electronics and said
it could be done for less than $100. He has a certain amount of BS to
him but he is a very smart person.
Jim
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:48 PM
To: Commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: HHO
Commanderland;
Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com
anything on the HHO, which is the process of electrolysis to break down
water into H & O and feeding it into the air intake. Some make claims
of 30% up to several hundred per cent increase in gas mileage including
using it on an 18 wheeler to double the mileage. I was talking to my
Commander and my Credit Card and both thought it would be a good idea.
Has anyone looked into this in the auto industry and other than the FAA,
would it work in Commanders, probably take several units. Just
thinking out loud.
Don
- The Commander-List Email Forum - -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ---> http://forums.matronics.com - List
Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List
Admin.
" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
10/8/2008 7:19 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Don,
I love your sense of optimism, and yes, things thought impossible have
been conquered. But sulfur, Firestone, Edison and carbon didn't violate
the First Law of Thermodynamics. The HHO thing is the worst sort of
pathological science. You can't generate MORE energy by recombining H &
O2 (combusting) than you used when splitting the H2O in the first place.
If you had a 100% efficient (as in, no loss to heat or mechanical
inefficiency) method of both splitting & recombining them, you'd end up
with exactly a net-Zero energy production.
I think, if this actually worked, that you could just plug a couple of
electrodes into the ocean and turn the world into a small sun, right?
Perhaps someone will come up with a nice, simple Cold Fusion powerplant.
What ever happened to Fleischmann & Pons anyway?
/John
Don wrote:
>
> Chris;
>
> I have read a great deal of the arguments, and I realize there is no
> such thing as 'perpetual motion', this said, I have also read many
> things that were quote 'impossible' until, something was changed and
> then it worked, Mr. Firestone comes to mind with I believe it was
> sulfur, as well as Mr. Edison and carbon. So I usually don't just
> 'write something off', just because so far it hasn't worked. I also
> read that God probably made the perfect compressed hydrogen, its call
> H2O, something like 1,800 to one compressions. I try and keep and open
> mind, one day I firmly believe, a revolutionary change will happen to
> greatly improve our internal combustions engine.
>
> No thanks on the 'carbon credits', I can just put the money in the
> NYSE, but I prefer gold.
>
> Don
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>
>
>>
>> Don wrote:
>>>
>>> Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com
>>> <http://www.youtube.com> anything on the HHO, which is the process of
>>> electrolysis to break down water into H & O and feeding it into the
>>> air intake.
>>
>> I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who think this will
>> work (no personal insult intended Don).
>> Let's take as a given that "burning" a fuel releases energy. In a
>> piston engine, some of this energy is turned into mechanical motion, but
>> a lot is lost to heat. Net loss in the energy conversion - agreed? Now
>> we take that mechanical motion and generate electricity. Quite a bit of
>> energy lost in that conversion as well. Now we take the electricity and
>> via electrolysis, split a molecule. Certainly a net loss of energy
>> there as well, not to mention that even a huge electrolysis cell
>> generates a tiny amount of hydrogen unless fed *huge* amounts of
>> electricity. Next we're going to take that fuel we created by so many
>> lossy steps, burn it, and get more energy out than we put into it's
>> creation ?????
>>
>>
>> chris
>>
>> ps: I have some "carbon offsets" I'm willing to sell cheap. I'll take
>> $45/flight hour for them. Less than 75 hours available, so get 'em
>> quick.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> 7:19 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
John-
So this extension chord I'm running over to lake tahoe isn't gonna work
either?????
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
Don,
I love your sense of optimism, and yes, things thought impossible have
been conquered. But sulfur, Firestone, Edison and carbon didn't violate
the First Law of Thermodynamics. The HHO thing is the worst sort of
pathological science. You can't generate MORE energy by recombining H &
O2 (combusting) than you used when splitting the H2O in the first place.
If you had a 100% efficient (as in, no loss to heat or mechanical
inefficiency) method of both splitting & recombining them, you'd end up
with exactly a net-Zero energy production.
I think, if this actually worked, that you could just plug a couple of
electrodes into the ocean and turn the world into a small sun, right?
Perhaps someone will come up with a nice, simple Cold Fusion powerplant.
What ever happened to Fleischmann & Pons anyway?
/John
Don wrote:
>
> Chris;
>
> I have read a great deal of the arguments, and I realize there is no
> such thing as 'perpetual motion', this said, I have also read many
> things that were quote 'impossible' until, something was changed and
> then it worked, Mr. Firestone comes to mind with I believe it was
> sulfur, as well as Mr. Edison and carbon. So I usually don't just
> 'write something off', just because so far it hasn't worked. I also
> read that God probably made the perfect compressed hydrogen, its call
> H2O, something like 1,800 to one compressions. I try and keep and open
> mind, one day I firmly believe, a revolutionary change will happen to
> greatly improve our internal combustions engine.
>
> No thanks on the 'carbon credits', I can just put the money in the
> NYSE, but I prefer gold.
>
> Don
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>
>
>>
>> Don wrote:
>>>
>>> Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com
>>> <http://www.youtube.com> anything on the HHO, which is the process of
>>> electrolysis to break down water into H & O and feeding it into the
>>> air intake.
>>
>> I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who think this will
>> work (no personal insult intended Don).
>> Let's take as a given that "burning" a fuel releases energy. In a
>> piston engine, some of this energy is turned into mechanical motion, but
>> a lot is lost to heat. Net loss in the energy conversion - agreed? Now
>> we take that mechanical motion and generate electricity. Quite a bit of
>> energy lost in that conversion as well. Now we take the electricity and
>> via electrolysis, split a molecule. Certainly a net loss of energy
>> there as well, not to mention that even a huge electrolysis cell
>> generates a tiny amount of hydrogen unless fed *huge* amounts of
>> electricity. Next we're going to take that fuel we created by so many
>> lossy steps, burn it, and get more energy out than we put into it's
>> creation ?????
>>
>>
>> chris
>>
>> ps: I have some "carbon offsets" I'm willing to sell cheap. I'll take
>> $45/flight hour for them. Less than 75 hours available, so get 'em
>> quick.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> 7:19 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Sure, but you gotta plug it into a really BIG wall socket.
Robert S. Randazzo wrote:
>
> John-
>
> So this extension chord I'm running over to lake tahoe isn't gonna work
> either?????
>
> Robert S. Randazzo
> N414C
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:16 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>
>
> Don,
>
> I love your sense of optimism, and yes, things thought impossible have
> been conquered. But sulfur, Firestone, Edison and carbon didn't violate
> the First Law of Thermodynamics. The HHO thing is the worst sort of
> pathological science. You can't generate MORE energy by recombining H &
> O2 (combusting) than you used when splitting the H2O in the first place.
> If you had a 100% efficient (as in, no loss to heat or mechanical
> inefficiency) method of both splitting & recombining them, you'd end up
> with exactly a net-Zero energy production.
>
> I think, if this actually worked, that you could just plug a couple of
> electrodes into the ocean and turn the world into a small sun, right?
>
> Perhaps someone will come up with a nice, simple Cold Fusion powerplant.
> What ever happened to Fleischmann & Pons anyway?
>
> /John
>
> Don wrote:
>
>>
>> Chris;
>>
>> I have read a great deal of the arguments, and I realize there is no
>> such thing as 'perpetual motion', this said, I have also read many
>> things that were quote 'impossible' until, something was changed and
>> then it worked, Mr. Firestone comes to mind with I believe it was
>> sulfur, as well as Mr. Edison and carbon. So I usually don't just
>> 'write something off', just because so far it hasn't worked. I also
>> read that God probably made the perfect compressed hydrogen, its call
>> H2O, something like 1,800 to one compressions. I try and keep and open
>> mind, one day I firmly believe, a revolutionary change will happen to
>> greatly improve our internal combustions engine.
>>
>> No thanks on the 'carbon credits', I can just put the money in the
>> NYSE, but I prefer gold.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Don wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com
>>>> <http://www.youtube.com> anything on the HHO, which is the process of
>>>> electrolysis to break down water into H & O and feeding it into the
>>>> air intake.
>>>>
>>> I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who think this will
>>> work (no personal insult intended Don).
>>> Let's take as a given that "burning" a fuel releases energy. In a
>>> piston engine, some of this energy is turned into mechanical motion, but
>>> a lot is lost to heat. Net loss in the energy conversion - agreed? Now
>>> we take that mechanical motion and generate electricity. Quite a bit of
>>> energy lost in that conversion as well. Now we take the electricity and
>>> via electrolysis, split a molecule. Certainly a net loss of energy
>>> there as well, not to mention that even a huge electrolysis cell
>>> generates a tiny amount of hydrogen unless fed *huge* amounts of
>>> electricity. Next we're going to take that fuel we created by so many
>>> lossy steps, burn it, and get more energy out than we put into it's
>>> creation ?????
>>>
>>>
>>> chris
>>>
>>> ps: I have some "carbon offsets" I'm willing to sell cheap. I'll take
>>> $45/flight hour for them. Less than 75 hours available, so get 'em
>>> quick.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> 7:19 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
John Vormbaum wrote:
>
> Perhaps someone will come up with a nice, simple Cold Fusion powerplant.
John, I purchased the DeLorean used in the movie "Back to the future"
off ebay a few years ago. I've since reversed engineered the "Mr.
Fusion" module and intend to make the design public very soon. Before I
do that, I'm investing heavily in banana peel and empty beer can futures
as that's where I think I'll make my millions. I've also broken the
88mph barrier and am now flying my Aztec entirely on half-empty beer
cans. The only significant technical issue that I've run into is that I
have to drink the first half of the can for it to work right. The eight
hour "bottle-to-throttle" rule has significantly impacted my flying
unfortunately. I'm trying to get an STC for my new designated autopilot
design, but at least one tea-totaling fed at the local FSDO office has
been quite opposed to the whole idea. I'm hoping that if I take him out
to a topless bar and get him highly intoxicated that he'll be more
willing to sign off on the field approval. Always something holding up
progress....
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
Now- now...enough pilot bashing.- I think its cute you know enough thermo
to order a latte.- but if you were really good, you'd figure a way to fi
le STC's without an act of-Congress.
-
Yeah we could use more efficient engines.....but what-we really need is a
streamlined STC process-to put modern engines on-some great flying (ye
t older) air frames.-(and I dont mean turbocharged chevy's)
-
So....Back to the "COMMANDER' list topics.
-
-
Bud
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Chris wrote:
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 12:11 PM
John Vormbaum wrote:
>
> Perhaps someone will come up with a nice, simple Cold Fusion powerplant.
John, I purchased the DeLorean used in the movie "Back to the future"
off ebay a few years ago. I've since reversed engineered the "Mr.
Fusion" module and intend to make the design public very soon. Before I
do that, I'm investing heavily in banana peel and empty beer can futures
as that's where I think I'll make my millions. I've also broken
the
88mph barrier and am now flying my Aztec entirely on half-empty beer
cans. The only significant technical issue that I've run into is that I
have to drink the first half of the can for it to work right. The eight
hour "bottle-to-throttle" rule has significantly impacted my flying
unfortunately. I'm trying to get an STC for my new designated autopilot
design, but at least one tea-totaling fed at the local FSDO office has
been quite opposed to the whole idea. I'm hoping that if I take him out
to a topless bar and get him highly intoxicated that he'll be more
willing to sign off on the field approval. Always something holding up
progress....
Chris
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
Don wrote:
> I try and keep and open mind, one day I firmly believe, a
> revolutionary change will happen to greatly improve our internal
> combustions engine.
Well Don, I applaud your positive outlook. From a purely scientific
perspective, there are very few areas to improve a traditional Otto
cycle engine. Even if some new miracle material were to arrive that
would allow unlimited temperature operation, basic physics still apply.
Small efficiency gains could be had, but there is simply no room for
huge improvement. Energy out equals energy in minus losses. As long as
the "energy in" part involves oxidation of petroleum products, you are
limited by that reaction. Most likely, someone will eventually come up
with an efficient means of directly generating electricity from a
chemical reaction and the next "great advancement" in transportation
will involve electric motors. I'm not aware of any ground-breaking
technology in that arena currently under development though.
cheers,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
>From an engineering and Thermodynamics standpoint, the internal combustion
engine (at least the Otto Cycle) is pretty maxed out.- For regular piston
-gasoline pushrod or overhead cam engines the total efficiency is dictated
by the maximum pressure you can obtain.- Lately, higher compression and h
igher temperatures have pushed the efficiency to the limits obtainable with
current materials (aluminum blocks, nitrided steel cylinders etc).- comp
uter control of the mixture took it to another level, but noone will allow
a micro controller on an AC without going through an extensive Qual process
.-
-
Newer High Temperature materials may increase this but absolute "e" is stil
l = [T(high) - T(low)]/T(low).
-
Diesel's are less dependent on T(high) but are still dependent on the Max p
ressure.- Thats why they are so good at being turbocharged at high altitu
de.- Same goes for Brayton cycle engines (jets).- in that case the limi
ts are [P(high) - P(low)]P(low).-
-
Now you know why those old---GSO-480's are still popular.- Lots of juice
and still efficient at high altitude if you roll back on the throttles. (bu
t who would?)
-
bud
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Chris wrote:
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 12:18 PM
Don wrote:
> I try and keep and open mind, one day I firmly believe, a
> revolutionary change will happen to greatly improve our internal
> combustions engine.
Well Don, I applaud your positive outlook. From a purely scientific
perspective, there are very few areas to improve a traditional Otto
cycle engine. Even if some new miracle material were to arrive that
would allow unlimited temperature operation, basic physics still apply.
Small efficiency gains could be had, but there is simply no room for
huge improvement. Energy out equals energy in minus losses. As long as
the "energy in" part involves oxidation of petroleum products, you
are
limited by that reaction. Most likely, someone will eventually come up
with an efficient means of directly generating electricity from a
chemical reaction and the next "great advancement" in transportation
will involve electric motors. I'm not aware of any ground-breaking
technology in that arena currently under development though.
cheers,
Chris
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
willis robison wrote:
> Now- now...enough pilot bashing. I think its cute you know enough
> thermo to order a latte. but if you were really good, you'd figure a
> way to file STC's without an act of Congress.
>
No way I'd ever bash John - he's an old buddy and I'm pretty sure he
knows I was just rolling with his humor about cold fusion.
I've heard of a drink called a latte, but don't think it's made it to
Oklahoma yet, so I'll just stick with the beer. I think it's more
likely to perfect cold fusion than streamline STC's.......
:-)
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Chris, remember, ANY Delorean will exceed 88mph, IF you have the proper
Flux Capacitor and a power source that can generate 1.21 Gigawatts.
Chris wrote:
>
> willis robison wrote:
>> Now- now...enough pilot bashing. I think its cute you know enough
>> thermo to order a latte. but if you were really good, you'd figure a
>> way to file STC's without an act of Congress.
>>
>
> No way I'd ever bash John - he's an old buddy and I'm pretty sure he
> knows I was just rolling with his humor about cold fusion.
> I've heard of a drink called a latte, but don't think it's made it to
> Oklahoma yet, so I'll just stick with the beer. I think it's more
> likely to perfect cold fusion than streamline STC's.......
> :-)
> chris
>
>
> .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
John-
I have a flux capacitor good to 1.21Gw powering all the electric displays we
just put into N414C... I have a spare on the shelf in the hangar just in
case we have to send one out for overhaul.
You guys can borrow it if I get a ride in the delorean OR the bear-can
burning commander.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
Chris, remember, ANY Delorean will exceed 88mph, IF you have the proper
Flux Capacitor and a power source that can generate 1.21 Gigawatts.
Chris wrote:
>
> willis robison wrote:
>> Now- now...enough pilot bashing. I think its cute you know enough
>> thermo to order a latte. but if you were really good, you'd figure a
>> way to file STC's without an act of Congress.
>>
>
> No way I'd ever bash John - he's an old buddy and I'm pretty sure he
> knows I was just rolling with his humor about cold fusion.
> I've heard of a drink called a latte, but don't think it's made it to
> Oklahoma yet, so I'll just stick with the beer. I think it's more
> likely to perfect cold fusion than streamline STC's.......
> :-)
> chris
>
>
> .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Deal! Right now the only kind of flying I can do is hangar flying. Makes
me want to drink 1.21 Gigabeers and blow my flux into the porcelain
capacitor. Luckily I've matured (well, a little) and will instead remain
stoic until I have new engines hung on 3CC.
/John
Robert S. Randazzo wrote:
>
> John-
>
> I have a flux capacitor good to 1.21Gw powering all the electric displays we
> just put into N414C... I have a spare on the shelf in the hangar just in
> case we have to send one out for overhaul.
>
> You guys can borrow it if I get a ride in the delorean OR the bear-can
> burning commander.
>
> Robert S. Randazzo
> N414C
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 4:14 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>
>
> Chris, remember, ANY Delorean will exceed 88mph, IF you have the proper
> Flux Capacitor and a power source that can generate 1.21 Gigawatts.
>
> Chris wrote:
>
>>
>> willis robison wrote:
>>
>>> Now- now...enough pilot bashing. I think its cute you know enough
>>> thermo to order a latte. but if you were really good, you'd figure a
>>> way to file STC's without an act of Congress.
>>>
>>>
>> No way I'd ever bash John - he's an old buddy and I'm pretty sure he
>> knows I was just rolling with his humor about cold fusion.
>> I've heard of a drink called a latte, but don't think it's made it to
>> Oklahoma yet, so I'll just stick with the beer. I think it's more
>> likely to perfect cold fusion than streamline STC's.......
>> :-)
>> chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
John-
How much longer, you think?
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
Deal! Right now the only kind of flying I can do is hangar flying. Makes
me want to drink 1.21 Gigabeers and blow my flux into the porcelain
capacitor. Luckily I've matured (well, a little) and will instead remain
stoic until I have new engines hung on 3CC.
/John
Robert S. Randazzo wrote:
>
> John-
>
> I have a flux capacitor good to 1.21Gw powering all the electric displays
we
> just put into N414C... I have a spare on the shelf in the hangar just in
> case we have to send one out for overhaul.
>
> You guys can borrow it if I get a ride in the delorean OR the bear-can
> burning commander.
>
> Robert S. Randazzo
> N414C
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 4:14 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>
>
> Chris, remember, ANY Delorean will exceed 88mph, IF you have the proper
> Flux Capacitor and a power source that can generate 1.21 Gigawatts.
>
> Chris wrote:
>
>>
>> willis robison wrote:
>>
>>> Now- now...enough pilot bashing. I think its cute you know enough
>>> thermo to order a latte. but if you were really good, you'd figure a
>>> way to file STC's without an act of Congress.
>>>
>>>
>> No way I'd ever bash John - he's an old buddy and I'm pretty sure he
>> knows I was just rolling with his humor about cold fusion.
>> I've heard of a drink called a latte, but don't think it's made it to
>> Oklahoma yet, so I'll just stick with the beer. I think it's more
>> likely to perfect cold fusion than streamline STC's.......
>> :-)
>> chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Back in the early 70's I used to fly John Delorean around in helicopters at
his plant in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>
> Chris, remember, ANY Delorean will exceed 88mph, IF you have the proper
> Flux Capacitor and a power source that can generate 1.21 Gigawatts.
>
> Chris wrote:
>>
>> willis robison wrote:
>>> Now- now...enough pilot bashing. I think its cute you know enough
>>> thermo to order a latte. but if you were really good, you'd figure a
>>> way to file STC's without an act of Congress.
>>>
>>
>> No way I'd ever bash John - he's an old buddy and I'm pretty sure he
>> knows I was just rolling with his humor about cold fusion.
>> I've heard of a drink called a latte, but don't think it's made it to
>> Oklahoma yet, so I'll just stick with the beer. I think it's more likely
>> to perfect cold fusion than streamline STC's.......
>> :-)
>> chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Cool!
In the 80's I imagine he didn't need a helicopter, as he was generally
very "high" for most of that decade from what I remember.
Tom Fisher wrote:
>
>
> Back in the early 70's I used to fly John Delorean around in
> helicopters at his plant in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada.
> Tom
> C-GISS
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 4:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>
>
>>
>> Chris, remember, ANY Delorean will exceed 88mph, IF you have the
>> proper Flux Capacitor and a power source that can generate 1.21
>> Gigawatts.
>>
>> Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> willis robison wrote:
>>>> Now- now...enough pilot bashing. I think its cute you know enough
>>>> thermo to order a latte. but if you were really good, you'd figure
>>>> a way to file STC's without an act of Congress.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No way I'd ever bash John - he's an old buddy and I'm pretty sure he
>>> knows I was just rolling with his humor about cold fusion.
>>> I've heard of a drink called a latte, but don't think it's made it
>>> to Oklahoma yet, so I'll just stick with the beer. I think it's
>>> more likely to perfect cold fusion than streamline STC's.......
>>> :-)
>>> chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Folks,
A friend of mine is involved in development testing with Mercedes.
Their new engine lines with direct petrol injection are producing
efficiencies that that translate into big sedans with plenty of performance,
ie the same power/weight ration as now, but reducing fuel consumption from
12/16 lt:100km, down to 5/8 lt.:100km, ie fuel consumption in already
reasonably efficient engines reduced by half.
It's all about increasing compression ratios, but chamber/injector design
reducing/eliminating pre ignition or detonation.
These engines will equal or better automotive diesels.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
If you want to do the maths, approx. 4 lt= 1 US Gallon, 1 km approx. Equals
5/8 of a statute mile.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>From an engineering and Thermodynamics standpoint, the internal combustion
engine (at least the Otto Cycle) is pretty maxed out. For regular
piston-gasoline pushrod or overhead cam engines the total efficiency is
dictated by the maximum pressure you can obtain. Lately, higher compression
and higher temperatures have pushed the efficiency to the limits obtainable
with current materials (aluminum blocks, nitrided steel cylinders etc).
computer control of the mixture took it to another level, but noone will
allow a micro controller on an AC without going through an extensive Qual
process.
Newer High Temperature materials may increase this but absolute "e" is still
= [T(high) - T(low)]/T(low).
Diesel's are less dependent on T(high) but are still dependent on the Max
pressure. Thats why they are so good at being turbocharged at high
altitude. Same goes for Brayton cycle engines (jets). in that case the
limits are [P(high) - P(low)]P(low).
Now you know why those old---GSO-480's are still popular. Lots of juice and
still efficient at high altitude if you roll back on the throttles. (but who
would?)
bud
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Chris wrote:
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 12:18 PM
Don wrote:
> I try and keep and open mind, one day I firmly believe, a
> revolutionary change will happen to greatly improve our internal
> combustions engine.
Well Don, I applaud your positive outlook. From a purely scientific
perspective, there are very few areas to improve a traditional Otto
cycle engine. Even if some new miracle material were to arrive that
would allow unlimited temperature operation, basic physics still apply.
Small efficiency gains could be had, but there is simply no room for
huge improvement. Energy out equals energy in minus losses. As long as
the "energy in" part involves oxidation of petroleum products, you
are
limited by that reaction. Most likely, someone will eventually come up
with an efficient means of directly generating electricity from a
chemical reaction and the next "great advancement" in transportation
will involve electric motors. I'm not aware of any ground-breaking
technology in that arena currently under development though.
cheers,
Chris
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HELLO DON.
I am a NAAA certified appriaser.=C2- Contact me at n700pf(at)aol.com.=C2- J
im Metzger (capt jimbob)
Don,
=C2-
If you've never had your plane appraised, (for insurance purposes or for sal
e) then you will likely need one.=C2- they aren't cheap, but are worth the
effort. I presume you're working on either personal property taxes or sales
taxes, both are dependent on professional opinions.
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:16 am
Subject: RE: Commander-List: values
Don,
=C2-
If you've never had your plane appraised, (for insurance purposes or for sal
e) then you will likely need one.=C2- they aren't cheap, but are worth the
effort. I presume you're working on either personal property taxes or sales
taxes, both are dependent on professional opinions.=C2-
=C2-
there is not a single organization that regulates all AC appraisers, but NAA
A is a good place to start.=C2- http://www.plane-values.com/index.php
=C2-
Look around, If you dont need a full blown appraisal then the AOPA=C2- "Va
lue" may work.=C2- Keep in mind that the reason they are often LOW is that
they make you LUMP together all those mods youve done over the years.=C2
- The checkboxes for standard or commercially available equipment is easy
enough for a web-page, but the detail modifications can only be judged by yo
u or an experienced appraiser.
=C2-
good luck.
=C2-
Willis
--- On Wed,2010/8/08, Robert S. Randazzo w
rote:
From: Robert S. Randazzo <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: values
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 10:36 AM
Donnie-
=C2-
Then I take it all back.=C2- It=99s the perfect tool.=C2- J
=C2-
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: values
=C2-
Thanks Robert, I'm trying to combat the taxman...
=C2-
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
----- Original Message ----
From: Robert S. Randazzo <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 12:06:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: values
Donnie-
=C2-
Only place I=99ve ever seen was Vref on the AOPA site-=C2- but I fin
d it to be incredibly under-valued for any airplane I=99ve ever plugge
d in
=C2-
So much so that I think it=99s a disservice
=C2-
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: Commander-List: values
=C2-
Hey everyone, does anyone know the=C2-official place to get same on Comman
der aircraft values such as the "Blue book".
Thanks,
=C2-
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-=C2-
=C2-
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2-
=C2-
http://for=C2-=C2-; -->
=C2-
=C2-
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2-
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commande
r-List
nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
lank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2-
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commande
r-List
nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
lank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-= -
-> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
I just had a neat experience.? I flew 680 (CONVERTED TO A 680e) from a small private
strip on the banks of the Columbia River, to my home airport.? The new owners
will be changing an engine there.?I have delivered lots of Commanders over
the years and even several 680s, so what makes this one different??? Well,
it is the very first Aero Commander?I ever actually touched!!? I had dreamed of
owning a Commander for a couple of years and was crop dusting in the Parlous
area of Washington state, south of Spokane.? I was finally in a position to buy
my first Commander and really wanted to see on up close and personal.? I was
told that a old (even then it was considered old) Commander in a hangar at Spokane's
Felts Field.? The first rainy day off?I had I drove to the airport to
look and sure enough, there it was.? It was parked in an open hangar with several
other, lessor, airplanes.? It was BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? It was painted
with yellow and black?trim and had?sweringen main la
nding gear doors.? I thought they were stock and for a while thought other Commander
owners must have removed theirs!!? I spent a couple of hours just looking
and dreaming of the day when I would have my own.
Amazingly, we would cross paths again.? Many years later and after I had owner
a couple of Commanders (a 720 and a 560A), I took a job for just a few weeks flying
ag for an operator in western Washington State.? I owned a Beech Duke (sorry)
at the time and it would not operate from the short ag strip where the Commander
lived.? That owner sold it to a really nice guy named Jody Maddox and
after many years, Jody sold it to the new, current owners.? Since neither of
them have ANY Commander time, they hired me to move the airplane.? It was really
cool to actually fly the airplane that really started it all for me.? I got
to occupied the pilot seat I had longingly looked through the window at so many
years ago.? It went "Full Circle"? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Jimbob,
Great story. Obviously you were meant to be a Commander person...the
airplanes still follow you around!
/J
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> HI KIDS.
> I just had a neat experience. I flew 680 (CONVERTED TO A 680e) from a
> small private strip on the banks of the Columbia River, to my home
> airport. The new owners will be changing an engine there. I have
> delivered lots of Commanders over the years and even several 680s, so
> what makes this one different?? Well, it is the very first Aero
> Commander I ever actually touched!! I had dreamed of owning a
> Commander for a couple of years and was crop dusting in the Parlous
> area of Washington state, south of Spokane. I was finally in a
> position to buy my first Commander and really wanted to see on up
> close and personal. I was told that a old (even then it was
> considered old) Commander in a hangar at Spokane's Felts Field. The
> first rainy day off I had I drove to the airport to look and sure
> enough, there it was. It was parked in an open hangar with several
> other, lessor, airplanes. It was BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was
> painted with yellow and black trim and had sweringen main landing gear
> doors. I thought they were stock and for a while thought other
> Commander owners must have removed theirs!! I spent a couple of hours
> just looking and dreaming of the day when I would have my own.
> Amazingly, we would cross paths again. Many years later and after I
> had owner a couple of Commanders (a 720 and a 560A), I took a job for
> just a few weeks flying ag for an operator in western Washington
> State. I owned a Beech Duke (sorry) at the time and it would not
> operate from the short ag strip where the Commander lived. That owner
> sold it to a really nice guy named Jody Maddox and after many years,
> Jody sold it to the new, current owners. Since neither of them have
> ANY Commander time, they hired me to move the airplane. It was really
> cool to actually fly the airplane that really started it all for me.
> I got to occupied the pilot seat I had longingly looked through the
> window at so many years ago. It went "Full Circle" jb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Pres idential race
> while you browse - Download Now
> <http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001>!
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Bill.
Did I do the math right, that is almost 100 mpg?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Hamilton
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:24 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HHO
Folks,
A friend of mine is involved in development testing with Mercedes.
Their new engine lines with direct petrol injection are producing
efficiencies that that translate into big sedans with plenty of
performance, ie the same power/weight ration as now, but reducing fuel
consumption from 12/16 lt:100km, down to 5/8 lt.:100km, ie fuel
consumption in already reasonably efficient engines reduced by half.
It's all about increasing compression ratios, but chamber/injector
design reducing/eliminating pre ignition or detonation.
These engines will equal or better automotive diesels.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
If you want to do the maths, approx. 4 lt= 1 US Gallon, 1 km approx.
Equals 5/8 of a statute mile.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 7:44 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
From an engineering and Thermodynamics standpoint, the internal
combustion engine (at least the Otto Cycle) is pretty maxed out. For
regular piston-gasoline pushrod or overhead cam engines the total
efficiency is dictated by the maximum pressure you can obtain. Lately,
higher compression and higher temperatures have pushed the efficiency to
the limits obtainable with current materials (aluminum blocks, nitrided
steel cylinders etc). computer control of the mixture took it to
another level, but noone will allow a micro controller on an AC without
going through an extensive Qual process.
Newer High Temperature materials may increase this but absolute
"e" is still = [T(high) - T(low)]/T(low).
Diesel's are less dependent on T(high) but are still dependent
on the Max pressure. Thats why they are so good at being turbocharged
at high altitude. Same goes for Brayton cycle engines (jets). in that
case the limits are [P(high) - P(low)]P(low).
Now you know why those old---GSO-480's are still popular. Lots
of juice and still efficient at high altitude if you roll back on the
throttles. (but who would?)
bud
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Chris wrote:
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 12:18 PM
wrote:> I try and keep and open mind, one day I firmly believe, a >
revolutionary change will happen to greatly improve our internal >
combustions engine. Well Don, I applaud your positive outlook. From a
purely scientific perspective, there are very few areas to improve a
traditional Otto cycle engine. Even if some new miracle material were
to arrive that would allow unlimited temperature operation, basic
physics still apply. Small efficiency gains could be had, but there is
simply no room for huge improvement. Energy out equals energy in minus
losses. As long as the "energy in" part involves oxidation of petroleum
products, youare limited by that reaction. Most likely, someone will
eventually come up with an efficient means of directly generating
electricity from a chemical reaction and the next "great advancement" in
transportation will involve electric motors. I'm not aware of any
ground-breaking technology in that arena currently under development
though. cheers,Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
10/8/2008 7:19 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Bill
Did you mean 5/8 liter or was it 5 to 8 liters per 100 km?
I think that was my error.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Hamilton
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:24 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HHO
Folks,
A friend of mine is involved in development testing with Mercedes.
Their new engine lines with direct petrol injection are producing
efficiencies that that translate into big sedans with plenty of
performance, ie the same power/weight ration as now, but reducing fuel
consumption from 12/16 lt:100km, down to 5/8 lt.:100km, ie fuel
consumption in already reasonably efficient engines reduced by half.
It's all about increasing compression ratios, but chamber/injector
design reducing/eliminating pre ignition or detonation.
These engines will equal or better automotive diesels.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
If you want to do the maths, approx. 4 lt= 1 US Gallon, 1 km approx.
Equals 5/8 of a statute mile.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 7:44 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
From an engineering and Thermodynamics standpoint, the internal
combustion engine (at least the Otto Cycle) is pretty maxed out. For
regular piston-gasoline pushrod or overhead cam engines the total
efficiency is dictated by the maximum pressure you can obtain. Lately,
higher compression and higher temperatures have pushed the efficiency to
the limits obtainable with current materials (aluminum blocks, nitrided
steel cylinders etc). computer control of the mixture took it to
another level, but noone will allow a micro controller on an AC without
going through an extensive Qual process.
Newer High Temperature materials may increase this but absolute
"e" is still = [T(high) - T(low)]/T(low).
Diesel's are less dependent on T(high) but are still dependent
on the Max pressure. Thats why they are so good at being turbocharged
at high altitude. Same goes for Brayton cycle engines (jets). in that
case the limits are [P(high) - P(low)]P(low).
Now you know why those old---GSO-480's are still popular. Lots
of juice and still efficient at high altitude if you roll back on the
throttles. (but who would?)
bud
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Chris wrote:
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 12:18 PM
wrote:> I try and keep and open mind, one day I firmly believe, a >
revolutionary change will happen to greatly improve our internal >
combustions engine. Well Don, I applaud your positive outlook. From a
purely scientific perspective, there are very few areas to improve a
traditional Otto cycle engine. Even if some new miracle material were
to arrive that would allow unlimited temperature operation, basic
physics still apply. Small efficiency gains could be had, but there is
simply no room for huge improvement. Energy out equals energy in minus
losses. As long as the "energy in" part involves oxidation of petroleum
products, youare limited by that reaction. Most likely, someone will
eventually come up with an efficient means of directly generating
electricity from a chemical reaction and the next "great advancement" in
transportation will involve electric motors. I'm not aware of any
ground-breaking technology in that arena currently under development
though. cheers,Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
10/8/2008 7:19 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi JimBob,
My guess is that it's N6863S, s/n 380.
It was converted from a 680 to a 680E on April 14th 1972.
I know it had the Swearingen gear doors installed, but don't know when.
Anything in the paperwork to help nail that date?
Has it still got them?
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
HI KIDS.
I just had a neat experience. I flew 680 (CONVERTED TO A 680e) from a
small private strip on the banks of the Columbia River, to my home
airport. The new owners will be changing an engine there. I have
delivered lots of Commanders over the years and even several 680s, so
what makes this one different?? Well, it is the very first Aero
Commander I ever actually touched!! I had dreamed of owning a Commander
for a couple of years and was crop dusting in the Parlous area of
Washington state, south of Spokane. I was finally in a position to buy
my first Commander and really wanted to see on up close and personal. I
was told that a old (even then it was considered old) Commander in a
hangar at Spokane's Felts Field. The first rainy day off I had I drove
to the airport to look and sure enough, there it was. It was parked in
an open hangar with several other, lessor, airplanes. It was
BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was painted with yellow and black trim and
had sweringen main landing gear doors. I thought they were stock and
for a while thought other Commander owners must have removed theirs!! I
spent a couple of hours just looking and dreaming of the day when I
would have my own.
Amazingly, we would cross paths again. Many years later and after I
had owner a couple of Commanders (a 720 and a 560A), I took a job for
just a few weeks flying ag for an operator in western Washington State.
I owned a Beech Duke (sorry) at the time and it would not operate from
the short ag strip where the Commander lived. That owner sold it to a
really nice guy named Jody Maddox and after many years, Jody sold it to
the new, current owners. Since neither of them have ANY Commander time,
they hired me to move the airplane. It was really cool to actually fly
the airplane that really started it all for me. I got to occupied the
pilot seat I had longingly looked through the window at so many years
ago. It went "Full Circle" jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Pres idential race
while you browse - Download Now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
Hey, I'm supposed to be the environmental wacko on this list. I'm gone for a
couple days and look what happens. You guys start splitting molecules and
running engines on water. Quit moving in on my territory. I've got a
reputation to think about.
Anybody remember the magnetic gizmos they used to sell to strap to fuel
lines that 'aligned the ions' or some some such thing......
I'm still pretty amazed at how efficient ancient aircraft engines are at
doing the job they were designed for. Especially at lean of peak. I can't
find the reference anymore, but there was a good (now dated) piece kicking
around discussing how a lot of the modern advances in automobile powerplants
didn't translate as well to slow turning aircraft engines. Multi-valve
technology, the frictional losses of geared drivetrains, and frictional
losses of double and higher RPM's.
Better and more efficient fuel delivery seems to be an area that could still
use improvement, and better management of when you really need the extra
rich mixture.
Got to go out and stack some more firewood.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>
> Don,
>
> I love your sense of optimism, and yes, things thought impossible have
> been conquered. But sulfur, Firestone, Edison and carbon didn't violate
> the First Law of Thermodynamics. The HHO thing is the worst sort of
> pathological science. You can't generate MORE energy by recombining H & O2
> (combusting) than you used when splitting the H2O in the first place. If
> you had a 100% efficient (as in, no loss to heat or mechanical
> inefficiency) method of both splitting & recombining them, you'd end up
> with exactly a net-Zero energy production.
>
> I think, if this actually worked, that you could just plug a couple of
> electrodes into the ocean and turn the world into a small sun, right?
>
> Perhaps someone will come up with a nice, simple Cold Fusion powerplant.
> What ever happened to Fleischmann & Pons anyway?
>
> /John
>
> Don wrote:
>>
>> Chris;
>>
>> I have read a great deal of the arguments, and I realize there is no such
>> thing as 'perpetual motion', this said, I have also read many things that
>> were quote 'impossible' until, something was changed and then it worked,
>> Mr. Firestone comes to mind with I believe it was sulfur, as well as Mr.
>> Edison and carbon. So I usually don't just 'write something off', just
>> because so far it hasn't worked. I also read that God probably made the
>> perfect compressed hydrogen, its call H2O, something like 1,800 to one
>> compressions. I try and keep and open mind, one day I firmly believe, a
>> revolutionary change will happen to greatly improve our internal
>> combustions engine.
>>
>> No thanks on the 'carbon credits', I can just put the money in the NYSE,
>> but I prefer gold.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Don wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Have any of you been reading or viewing on www.youtube.com
>>>> <http://www.youtube.com> anything on the HHO, which is the process of
>>>> electrolysis to break down water into H & O and feeding it into the
>>>> air intake.
>>>
>>> I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who think this will
>>> work (no personal insult intended Don).
>>> Let's take as a given that "burning" a fuel releases energy. In a
>>> piston engine, some of this energy is turned into mechanical motion, but
>>> a lot is lost to heat. Net loss in the energy conversion - agreed? Now
>>> we take that mechanical motion and generate electricity. Quite a bit of
>>> energy lost in that conversion as well. Now we take the electricity and
>>> via electrolysis, split a molecule. Certainly a net loss of energy
>>> there as well, not to mention that even a huge electrolysis cell
>>> generates a tiny amount of hydrogen unless fed *huge* amounts of
>>> electricity. Next we're going to take that fuel we created by so many
>>> lossy steps, burn it, and get more energy out than we put into it's
>>> creation ?????
>>>
>>>
>>> chris
>>>
>>> ps: I have some "carbon offsets" I'm willing to sell cheap. I'll take
>>> $45/flight hour for them. Less than 75 hours available, so get 'em
>>> quick.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> 7:19 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
JB, your story reminded me of this spring.
It's powerful stuff across the span of time unexpectedly coming across
machines you've run or made an impression on you, ain't it? In an age of
computer games, ipods, and people fondling their little phones
everywhere you go, I'm not sure everyone feels the same. This spring we
were working way up north, and I pit stopped in Houlton Maine. Houlton
is literally the end of the United States. When you depart you turn
crosswind across the border of New Brunswick and the north end of
Interstate 95.
We taxied up to get fuel and there was an old straight tail C-310C. I
always liked them, as they had the 260hp IO-470's, and the straight tail
and tanks. A fast and efficient machine, and in the 70's after my Dad
started his company, first was a '53 C-180 with a photo hole, and then a
'59 C-310C with a hole. (I don't think he could have afforded a
Commander like what he was used to flying.) Last I had heard, long after
he had sold his interest out, the old 310 had its gear collapse and was
written off.
As we got closer to the machine, I couldn't believe it had the old N
number. Sure enough, there was a photo hole underneath with a cover. It
was the same machine I had 'grown up' in. Crossed the Rockies at night,
flew through the Grand Canyon, and worked in all over the northeast and
New England as camerman (even when just a kid).
My first flying memory was sitting in my Dad's lap, trying to steer a
680E through a pair of cumulus. I never expected to be around Commanders
again. Somehow, almost 40 years later, I get to drive one some for work.
Life presents a lot of good, sometimes bad, and unexpected things.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
HI KIDS.
I just had a neat experience. I flew 680 (CONVERTED TO A 680e) from a
small private strip on the banks of the Columbia River, to my home
airport. The new owners will be changing an engine there. I have
delivered lots of Commanders over the years and even several 680s, so
what makes this one different?? Well, it is the very first Aero
Commander I ever actually touched!! I had dreamed of owning a Commander
for a couple of years and was crop dusting in the Parlous area of
Washington state, south of Spokane. I was finally in a position to buy
my first Commander and really wanted to see on up close and personal. I
was told that a old (even then it was considered old) Commander in a
hangar at Spokane's Felts Field. The first rainy day off I had I drove
to the airport to look and sure enough, there it was. It was parked in
an open hangar with several other, lessor, airplanes. It was
BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was painted with yellow and black trim and
had sweringen main landing gear doors. I thought they were stock and
for a while thought other Commander owners must have removed theirs!! I
spent a couple of hours just looking and dreaming of the day when I
would have my own.
Amazingly, we would cross paths again. Many years later and after I
had owner a couple of Commanders (a 720 and a 560A), I took a job for
just a few weeks flying ag for an operator in western Washington State.
I owned a Beech Duke (sorry) at the time and it would not operate from
the short ag strip where the Commander lived. That owner sold it to a
really nice guy named Jody Maddox and after many years, Jody sold it to
the new, current owners. Since neither of them have ANY Commander time,
they hired me to move the airplane. It was really cool to actually fly
the airplane that really started it all for me. I got to occupied the
pilot seat I had longingly looked through the window at so many years
ago. It went "Full Circle" jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Pres idential race
while you browse - Download Now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
However, anyway you look at it, the price per gallon of water these days is
less than the price of gas... SOOOOO splitting them may cost less than the
norm. :)
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I never heard of the "Swearingen gear doors" how are they different from
the factory ones?
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
Hi JimBob,
My guess is that it's N6863S, s/n 380.
It was converted from a 680 to a 680E on April 14th 1972.
I know it had the Swearingen gear doors installed, but don't know
when.
Anything in the paperwork to help nail that date?
Has it still got them?
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
HI KIDS.
I just had a neat experience. I flew 680 (CONVERTED TO A 680e) from
a small private strip on the banks of the Columbia River, to my home
airport. The new owners will be changing an engine there. I have
delivered lots of Commanders over the years and even several 680s, so
what makes this one different?? Well, it is the very first Aero
Commander I ever actually touched!! I had dreamed of owning a Commander
for a couple of years and was crop dusting in the Parlous area of
Washington state, south of Spokane. I was finally in a position to buy
my first Commander and really wanted to see on up close and personal. I
was told that a old (even then it was considered old) Commander in a
hangar at Spokane's Felts Field. The first rainy day off I had I drove
to the airport to look and sure enough, there it was. It was parked in
an open hangar with several other, lessor, airplanes. It was
BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was painted with yellow and black trim and
had sweringen main landing gear doors. I thought they were stock and
for a while thought other Commander owners must have removed theirs!! I
spent a couple of hours just looking and dreaming of the day when I
would have my own.
Amazingly, we would cross paths again. Many years later and after I
had owner a couple of Commanders (a 720 and a 560A), I took a job for
just a few weeks flying ag for an operator in western Washington State.
I owned a Beech Duke (sorry) at the time and it would not operate from
the short ag strip where the Commander lived. That owner sold it to a
really nice guy named Jody Maddox and after many years, Jody sold it to
the new, current owners. Since neither of them have ANY Commander time,
they hired me to move the airplane. It was really cool to actually fly
the airplane that really started it all for me. I got to occupied the
pilot seat I had longingly looked through the window at so many years
ago. It went "Full Circle" jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Yes, they are still installed.? I will look at the logs and see if there is a date.?
jb
Anything in the paperwork to help nail that date?
Has it still got
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Sent: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 4:34 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
Hi JimBob,
?
My guess is that it's N6863S, s/n 380.
It was converted from a 680 to a 680E on April 14th 1972.
?
I know it had the Swearingen gear doors installed, but don't know when.
Anything in the paperwork to help nail that date?
Has it still got them?
?
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
HI KIDS.
I just had a neat experience.? I flew 680 (CONVERTED TO A 680e) from a small private
strip on the banks of the Columbia River, to my home airport.? The new owners
will be changing an engine there.?I have delivered lots of Commanders over
the years and even several 680s, so what makes this one different??? Well,
it is the very first Aero Commander?I ever actually touched!!? I had dreamed of
owning a Commander for a couple of years and was crop dusting in the Parlous
area of Washington state, south of Spokane.? I was finally in a position to buy
my first Commander and really wanted to see on up close and personal.? I was
told that a old (even then it was considered old) Commander in a hangar at Spokane's
Felts Field.? The first rainy day off?I had I drove to the airport to
look and sure enough, there it was.? It was parked in an open hangar with several
other, lessor, airplanes.? It was BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? It was painted
with yellow and black?trim and had?sweringen main la
nding gear doors.? I thought they were stock and for a while thought other Commander
owners must have removed theirs!!? I spent a couple of hours just looking
and dreaming of the day when I would have my own.
Amazingly, we would cross paths again.? Many years later and after I had owner
a couple of Commanders (a 720 and a 560A), I took a job for just a few weeks flying
ag for an operator in western Washington State.? I owned a Beech Duke (sorry)
at the time and it would not operate from the short ag strip where the Commander
lived.? That owner sold it to a really nice guy named Jody Maddox and
after many years, Jody sold it to the new, current owners.? Since neither of
them have ANY Commander time, they hired me to move the airplane.? It was really
cool to actually fly the airplane that really started it all for me.? I got
to occupied the pilot seat I had longingly looked through the window at so many
years ago.? It went "Full Circle"? jb
McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Pres idential race while you browse
- Download Now!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Great story!!? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve W <steve2(at)sover.net>
Sent: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 6:35 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
JB, your story reminded me of this spring.
?
It's powerful stuff across the span of time unexpectedly coming across machines
you've run or made an impression on you, ain't it? In an age of computer games,
ipods, and people fondling their little phones everywhere you go, I'm not sure
everyone feels the same. This spring we were working way up north, and I pit
stopped in Houlton Maine. Houlton is literally the end of the United States.
When you depart you turn crosswind across the border of New Brunswick and the
north end of Interstate 95.
?
We taxied up to get fuel and there was an old straight tail C-310C. I always liked
them, as they had the 260hp IO-470's, and the straight tail and tanks. A fast
and efficient machine, and in the 70's after my Dad started his company, first
was a '53 C-180 with a photo hole, and then a '59 C-310C with a hole. (I
don't think he could have afforded a Commander like what he was used to flying.)
Last I had heard, long after he had sold his interest out, the old 310 had
its gear collapse and was written off.
?
As we got closer to the machine, I couldn't believe it had the old N number. Sure
enough, there was a photo hole underneath with a cover. It was the same machine
I had 'grown up' in. Crossed the Rockies at night, flew through the Grand
Canyon, and worked in all over the northeast and New England as camerman (even
when just a kid).
?
My first flying memory was sitting in my Dad's lap, trying to steer a 680E through
a pair of cumulus. I never expected to be around Commanders again. Somehow,
almost 40 years later, I get to drive one some for work. Life presents a lot
of good, sometimes bad, and unexpected things.
?
Steve
?
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
HI KIDS.
I just had a neat experience.? I flew 680 (CONVERTED TO A 680e) from a small private
strip on the banks of the Columbia River, to my home airport.? The new owners
will be changing an engine there.?I have delivered lots of Commanders over
the years and even several 680s, so what makes this one different??? Well,
it is the very first Aero Commander?I ever actually touched!!? I had dreamed of
owning a Commander for a couple of years and was crop dusting in the Parlous
area of Washington state, south of Spokane.? I was finally in a position to buy
my first Commander and really wanted to see on up close and personal.? I was
told that a old (even then it was considered old) Commander in a hangar at Spokane's
Felts Field.? The first rainy day off?I had I drove to the airport to
look and sure enough, there it was.? It was parked in an open hangar with several
other, lessor, airplanes.? It was BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? It was painted
with yellow and black?trim and had?sweringen main la
nding gear doors.? I thought they were stock and for a while thought other Commander
owners must have removed theirs!!? I spent a couple of hours just looking
and dreaming of the day when I would have my own.
Amazingly, we would cross paths again.? Many years later and after I had owner
a couple of Commanders (a 720 and a 560A), I took a job for just a few weeks flying
ag for an operator in western Washington State.? I owned a Beech Duke (sorry)
at the time and it would not operate from the short ag strip where the Commander
lived.? That owner sold it to a really nice guy named Jody Maddox and
after many years, Jody sold it to the new, current owners.? Since neither of
them have ANY Commander time, they hired me to move the airplane.? It was really
cool to actually fly the airplane that really started it all for me.? I got
to occupied the pilot seat I had longingly looked through the window at so many
years ago.? It went "Full Circle"? jb
McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Pres idential race while you browse
- Download Now!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks JimBob!
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
Yes, they are still installed. I will look at the logs and see if
there is a date. jb
Anything in the paperwork to help nail that date?
Has it still got
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 4:34 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
Hi JimBob,
My guess is that it's N6863S, s/n 380.
It was converted from a 680 to a 680E on April 14th 1972.
I know it had the Swearingen gear doors installed, but don't know
when.
Anything in the paperwork to help nail that date?
Has it still got them?
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
HI KIDS.
I just had a neat experience. I flew 680 (CONVERTED TO A 680e) from
a small private strip on the banks of the Columbia River, to my home
airport. The new owners will be changing an engine there. I have
delivered lots of Commanders over the years and even several 680s, so
what makes this one different?? Well, it is the very first Aero
Commander I ever actually touched!! I had dreamed of owning a Commander
for a couple of years and was crop dusting in the Parlous area of
Washington state, south of Spokane. I was finally in a position to buy
my first Commander and really wanted to see on up close and personal. I
was told that a old (even then it was considered old) Commander in a
hangar at Spokane's Felts Field. The first rainy day off I had I drove
to the airport to look and sure enough, there it was. It was parked in
an open hangar with several other, lessor, airplanes. It was
BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was painted with yellow and black trim and
had sweringen main landing gear doors. I thought they were stock and
for a while thought other Commander owners must have removed theirs!! I
spent a couple of hours just looking and dreaming of the day when I
would have my own.
Amazingly, we would cross paths again. Many years later and after I
had owner a couple of Commanders (a 720 and a 560A), I took a job for
just a few weeks flying ag for an operator in western Washington State.
I owned a Beech Duke (sorry) at the time and it would not operate from
the short ag strip where the Commander lived. That owner sold it to a
really nice guy named Jody Maddox and after many years, Jody sold it to
the new, current owners. Since neither of them have ANY Commander time,
they hired me to move the airplane. It was really cool to actually fly
the airplane that really started it all for me. I got to occupied the
pilot seat I had longingly looked through the window at so many years
ago. It went "Full Circle" jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
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while you browse - Download Now!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Don,
Sorry for any confusion, 5 to 8 litres per 100 km ---- In an almost 3 ton
car. By 5 to 8 lt/100 km, I am referring to standard city cycle (8) and
country cycle (5) tests. Small European cars that do 80 mpg ( Imperial) are
common, but the latest developments are really something, with petrol
catching up with diesel.
Mind you, they (Benz) have been working on direct injection since the
1930's, maybe earlier, remember the Me 109.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
Bill.
Did I do the math right, that is almost 100 mpg?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Hamilton <mailto:wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:24 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HHO
Folks,
A friend of mine is involved in development testing with Mercedes.
Their new engine lines with direct petrol injection are producing
efficiencies that that translate into big sedans with plenty of performance,
ie the same power/weight ration as now, but reducing fuel consumption from
12/16 lt:100km, down to 5/8 lt.:100km, ie fuel consumption in already
reasonably efficient engines reduced by half.
It's all about increasing compression ratios, but chamber/injector design
reducing/eliminating pre ignition or detonation.
These engines will equal or better automotive diesels.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
If you want to do the maths, approx. 4 lt= 1 US Gallon, 1 km approx. Equals
5/8 of a statute mile.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
>From an engineering and Thermodynamics standpoint, the internal combustion
engine (at least the Otto Cycle) is pretty maxed out. For regular
piston-gasoline pushrod or overhead cam engines the total efficiency is
dictated by the maximum pressure you can obtain. Lately, higher compression
and higher temperatures have pushed the efficiency to the limits obtainable
with current materials (aluminum blocks, nitrided steel cylinders etc).
computer control of the mixture took it to another level, but noone will
allow a micro controller on an AC without going through an extensive Qual
process.
Newer High Temperature materials may increase this but absolute "e" is still
= [T(high) - T(low)]/T(low).
Diesel's are less dependent on T(high) but are still dependent on the Max
pressure. Thats why they are so good at being turbocharged at high
altitude. Same goes for Brayton cycle engines (jets). in that case the
limits are [P(high) - P(low)]P(low).
Now you know why those old---GSO-480's are still popular. Lots of juice and
still efficient at high altitude if you roll back on the throttles. (but who
would?)
bud
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Chris wrote:
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 12:18 PM
Don wrote:
> I try and keep and open mind, one day I firmly believe, a
> revolutionary change will happen to greatly improve our internal
> combustions engine.
Well Don, I applaud your positive outlook. From a purely scientific
perspective, there are very few areas to improve a traditional Otto
cycle engine. Even if some new miracle material were to arrive that
would allow unlimited temperature operation, basic physics still apply.
Small efficiency gains could be had, but there is simply no room for
huge improvement. Energy out equals energy in minus losses. As long as
the "energy in" part involves oxidation of petroleum products, you
are
limited by that reaction. Most likely, someone will eventually come up
with an efficient means of directly generating electricity from a
chemical reaction and the next "great advancement" in transportation
will involve electric motors. I'm not aware of any ground-breaking
technology in that arena currently under development though.
cheers,
Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
- Release Date: 10/8/2008 7:19 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | IL-18 aborted take-off |
Hi Guys,
Here's a link to a video clip of an aborted take-off by an Angolan
IL-18.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogb69OBceRI
Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
Pretty sure GM is deep into direct injection now also, even for North
America.
I'll have to look that up.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Hamilton
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:22 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HHO
Don,
Sorry for any confusion, 5 to 8 litres per 100 km ---- In an almost 3
ton car. By 5 to 8 lt/100 km, I am referring to standard city cycle (8)
and country cycle (5) tests. Small European cars that do 80 mpg (
Imperial) are common, but the latest developments are really something,
with petrol catching up with diesel.
Mind you, they (Benz) have been working on direct injection since the
1930's, maybe earlier, remember the Me 109.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:19 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
Bill.
Did I do the math right, that is almost 100 mpg?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Hamilton
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:24 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HHO
Folks,
A friend of mine is involved in development testing with Mercedes.
Their new engine lines with direct petrol injection are producing
efficiencies that that translate into big sedans with plenty of
performance, ie the same power/weight ration as now, but reducing fuel
consumption from 12/16 lt:100km, down to 5/8 lt.:100km, ie fuel
consumption in already reasonably efficient engines reduced by half.
It's all about increasing compression ratios, but chamber/injector
design reducing/eliminating pre ignition or detonation.
These engines will equal or better automotive diesels.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
If you want to do the maths, approx. 4 lt= 1 US Gallon, 1 km
approx. Equals 5/8 of a statute mile.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 7:44 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
From an engineering and Thermodynamics standpoint, the
internal combustion engine (at least the Otto Cycle) is pretty maxed
out. For regular piston-gasoline pushrod or overhead cam engines the
total efficiency is dictated by the maximum pressure you can obtain.
Lately, higher compression and higher temperatures have pushed the
efficiency to the limits obtainable with current materials (aluminum
blocks, nitrided steel cylinders etc). computer control of the mixture
took it to another level, but noone will allow a micro controller on an
AC without going through an extensive Qual process.
Newer High Temperature materials may increase this but
absolute "e" is still = [T(high) - T(low)]/T(low).
Diesel's are less dependent on T(high) but are still dependent
on the Max pressure. Thats why they are so good at being turbocharged
at high altitude. Same goes for Brayton cycle engines (jets). in that
case the limits are [P(high) - P(low)]P(low).
Now you know why those old---GSO-480's are still popular.
Lots of juice and still efficient at high altitude if you roll back on
the throttles. (but who would?)
bud
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Chris wrote:
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HHO
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 12:18 PM
wrote:> I try and keep and open mind, one day I firmly believe, a >
revolutionary change will happen to greatly improve our internal >
combustions engine. Well Don, I applaud your positive outlook. From a
purely scientific perspective, there are very few areas to improve a
traditional Otto cycle engine. Even if some new miracle material were
to arrive that would allow unlimited temperature operation, basic
physics still apply. Small efficiency gains could be had, but there is
simply no room for huge improvement. Energy out equals energy in minus
losses. As long as the "energy in" part involves oxidation of petroleum
products, youare limited by that reaction. Most likely, someone will
eventually come up with an efficient means of directly generating
electricity from a chemical reaction and the next "great advancement" in
transportation will involve electric motors. I'm not aware of any
ground-breaking technology in that arena currently under development
though. cheers,Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
- Release Date: 10/8/2008 7:19 PM
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | peter bichier <peter.bichier(at)utoledo.edu> |
I'm like Tom, never heard of those doors, can anyone enlighten us? or
best a quick picture from N6863S door, and heck why not the rest of
it! would be greatly appreciated!
unless Barry also has some example in his photo collection, of course!
thanks!
On Oct 13, 2008, at 11:01 AM, Tom Fisher wrote:
> I never heard of the "Swearingen gear doors" how are they different
> from the factory ones?
>
> Tom
> C-GISS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barry Collman
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FULL CIRCLE
>
> Hi JimBob,
>
> My guess is that it's N6863S, s/n 380.
> It was converted from a 680 to a 680E on April 14th 1972.
>
> I know it had the Swearingen gear doors installed, but don't know
> when.
> Anything in the paperwork to help nail that date?
> Has it still got them?
>
> Very Best Regards,
> Barry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: On a historical note and inquiry on the L-3805 |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Now that Sir Barry is back I'll throw this question again:
I was surprised to see that on the handout to employees -May 1951 at the end of
the Chicago Tribune column they mentioned "... the right motor -a 260 hp Lycoming..."
Did the prototype already had the O-435 in 1951? could it really get that much
power on a single engine without the geared engines? Or did she actually fly with
the 190HP?
According to our FGNews July'08 it's only in 1955 that the O-435-A were signed
off as installed on June 3rd. You would thing the journalist would get it right
since he was there!... may be he confused his notes and was just talking about
future plans...
Anyway I am thrilled to have seen this great prototype and just trying to make
sense of this remarkable feat and clarify the story.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8771#208771
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: On a historical note and inquiry on the L-3805 |
Hi Peter,
There is a problem in ascertaining the early history of the L-3805
prototype, in that the FAA file has no Certificate of Airworthiness
papers until one dated September 9th 1955, by which time it had accrued
938 hours of flying.
This showed that the previous CofA was issued on May 19th 1955 in the
Experimental - R&D category.
However, it is understood to have had Lycoming GO-435-C2 engines
installed "early in 1951".
Indeed, there is photographic evidence of what appears to be a
suitably-modified nacelle to house the reduction gearing that is known
to have been taken at Wright-Patterson AFB.
The L-3805 is known to have been there sometime prior to May 1951.
A Form 337 dated June 3rd 1955 detailed some changes to the L-3805,
including installation of Lycoming O-435-A engines with Hartzell
HC-12X20-9C/8433-6 propellers.
Whether the GO-435 engines were removed at that time isn't known, due to
the afore-mentioned lack of paperwork.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: On a historical note and inquiry on the
L-3805
|
| Now that Sir Barry is back I'll throw this question again:
|
| I was surprised to see that on the handout to employees -May 1951 at
the end of the Chicago Tribune column they mentioned "... the right
motor -a 260 hp Lycoming..."
|
| Did the prototype already had the O-435 in 1951? could it really get
that much power on a single engine without the geared engines? Or did
she actually fly with the 190HP?
|
| According to our FGNews July'08 it's only in 1955 that the O-435-A
were signed off as installed on June 3rd. You would thing the journalist
would get it right since he was there!... may be he confused his notes
and was just talking about future plans...
|
| Anyway I am thrilled to have seen this great prototype and just trying
to make sense of this remarkable feat and clarify the story.
|
| --------
| 560 Dreamer|
| Read this topic online here:
|
| http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8771#208771
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08 |
Did you guys cut me off?- I have not received a message in a week.
69U
--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Commander-List Digest Server wrote:
From: Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08
Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:55 AM
*
========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Ch
apter 08-10-22&Archive=Commander
Text Version:
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pter 08-10-22&Archive=Commander
========================
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 10/22/08: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08 |
It has been quiet.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 7:12 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08
Did you guys cut me off? I have not received a message in a
week.
69U
--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
From: Commander-List Digest Server
Subject: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08
To: "Commander-List Digest List"
Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 12:55 AM
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
Chapter 08-10-22&Archive=Commander
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C
hapter 08-10-22&Archive=Commander
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 10/22/08: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08 |
Dan, I see you... Cant say about the rest...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08 |
Well, I was out of the country. Sorry about that, folks. :-D
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08
Dan, I see you... Cant say about the rest...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08 |
Hi Nico - were you in SA?
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs -
10/22/08
Well, I was out of the country. Sorry about that, folks. :-D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Owens
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:49 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs -
10/22/08
Dan, I see you... Cant say about the rest...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08 |
Hi Andrew,
Yes, Cape Town and Pretoria. It was my mother's 90th birthday and the family
descended on the Mother City like a swarm of bees. We feasted for three
weeks that would put a medieval monarch to shame. But that's over now and I
am trying to get back into the bad habit of trying to earn some money. It'll
take a while, I guess.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08
Hi Nico - were you in SA?
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08
Well, I was out of the country. Sorry about that, folks. :-D
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/22/08
Dan, I see you... Cant say about the rest...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
Who's selling 560E N224HA on ebay? That airplane looks familiar, but I
don't remember where I've seen it....
Wonder if there is something significantly wrong with it.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
I think it's Don Girod 560E ser#567.
The annual was done about a year ago, it looks gorgeous from the pictures, has
been advertised for sale since July.
Don has even posted pictures of his plane here, don't know if he is still part
of the group though.
Sad to see one classic leave the group...
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210395#210395
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Now you've done it Peter.
NO it's not mine!
Mine is N2707B S# 555
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:40 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: ebay 224HA
>
>
> I think it's Don Girod 560E ser#567.
>
> The annual was done about a year ago, it looks gorgeous from the pictures,
> has been advertised for sale since July.
>
> Don has even posted pictures of his plane here, don't know if he is still
> part of the group though.
>
> Sad to see one classic leave the group...
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210395#210395
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8:33 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Mansfeld <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Am having a problem with the left engine on the 680 FLP I fly (Mr. RPM Conversion).
Takeoff is fine but on climb out the left engine RPM is unsteady, somewhat
like a prop that won't stabilize. Here's some info:
1. The problem seems to occur primarily during climb as I bring the
turbos up (I've got manual turbos)
2. The fluctuation is random as to when it occurs and how much the RPM
fluctuates...probably 10-20 RPM. Sometimes it's noticeable as the
aircraft yaws, sometimes it's not noticeable.
3. Sometimes it seems that leaning the mixture helps a bit but not
always
4. I've also noticed that sometimes when the problem has occured on a
flight that on shutdown of the engine after landing, it doesn't want to
stop running with the mixture pulled all the way to lean/idle-cutoff.
5. Sometimes I the lean the mixture during the 1500 RPM ground check
and the RPM goes up 50 RPM or so, sometimes it doesn't
6. Once I level off the problem seems to disappear or be almost
un-noticeable. Although tonight I applied full rich mixture while in level
flight at 4,500' and I could notice a slight RPM fluctuation if I paid close
attention.
7. Fuel pressure is normal and turning the fuel pump on or off has no
affect on the engine
My thoughts:
1. I think the problem is in some fuel metering mechanism in the
carburetor that is unsteady
2. At one point I thought there might be a leak in the turbo pressure
lines causing a fluctuation in turbo air to the engine
3. Now, with the engine shut down problem (doesn't happen every time)
I think there is a link between the turbo air (as I bring it up on climb)
and fuel metering. They are probably interrelated.
I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this type
problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
Thank you,
Ray Mansfield
N91ES
850-217-5185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Sadly, the airplane is a rat.? The photos were taken years ago, there is an abundance
of surface corrosion that has been painted over with a brush.?The corrosion
in the gear trusses is not repairable or annualable.? The estimate to do
the annual (not including the corrosion issues) is over 40K, sad.? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:00 am
Subject: Commander-List: ebay 224HA
?
Who's selling 560E N224HA on ebay? That airplane looks familiar, but I don't remember
where I've seen it....?
Wonder if there is something significantly wrong with it.?
?
chris?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Ray Mansfeld wrote:
> I've received help from many of you out there before. Has anyone had this type
problem occur and if so what might be the problem?
Do you have a multi-channel EGT/CHT system? If so, what are the EGT's
doing when this occurs.
There are several possible problems which could cause this, but it does
sound like you're looking in the right area. Have you carefully
inspected the upper deck reference lines? That would be my first guess
before digging into the injection body. I think those were all hand
fabricated by mrrpm since a normal io-720 wouldn't have them. Look for
a cracked line at the solder joint on the injector.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> Sadly, the airplane is a rat.
that is indeed a shame. If the known parts are that bad, I'd sure
wonder about the hidden stuff (like the hangars behind the firewall that
attach to the trusses).
Another one headed either to the scrap yard or an unsuspecting new owner
who will be in for a shock.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Barry Home" <don.barry(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Sold for #33,601.00 to a user "skyhawk_c-172".
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ebay 224HA
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> Sadly, the airplane is a rat.
that is indeed a shame. If the known parts are that bad, I'd sure
wonder about the hidden stuff (like the hangars behind the firewall that
attach to the trusses).
Another one headed either to the scrap yard or an unsuspecting new owner
who will be in for a shock.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Interesting, skyhawk_c-172 is someone who's posted on the Commander
list...I just can't remember who. I hope he didn't get in over his head
with this old airplane.
/J
Don Barry Home wrote:
>
> Sold for #33,601.00 to a user "skyhawk_c-172".
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:01 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: ebay 224HA
>
>
> yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>> Sadly, the airplane is a rat.
>>
>
> that is indeed a shame. If the known parts are that bad, I'd sure
> wonder about the hidden stuff (like the hangars behind the firewall that
> attach to the trusses).
> Another one headed either to the scrap yard or an unsuspecting new owner
> who will be in for a shock.
>
> chris
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3557 (20081026) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Sorry Don, I mixed up...
Where is this airplane anyways? I can't find it on ebay... is it already gone?
I did say, quote: "I think"... the reason being that an "ACA125" user posted a
video commenting that it was "your" 560E and signed as "N224HA 560E"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeDdTBQlgIg
anyway, I confused you mixing both 560Es... sorry again! the funny thing though,
is that in Matronics Archives from last year, a certain "skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net"
signed as "Brent - N224HA"
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-get.cgi?Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ci
and on other photos of N224HA posted on the web Brent was talking about his "lost
love"...
so does that mean he bought it back? or that was actually the seller's email?
very interesting...
[quote="dongirod"]Now you've done it Peter.
NO it's not mine!
Mine is N2707B S# 555
Don
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210464#210464
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Hi Chris,
This one is a bit like Milt's old Straight 560...gets hidden away for a
while and then suddenly 'pops up' again when you are least expecting it.
Reminds us all to be eternally wary!
Cheers
Russell
On 27/10/08 3:30 AM, "Chris" wrote:
>
>
> Who's selling 560E N224HA on ebay? That airplane looks familiar, but I
> don't remember where I've seen it....
> Wonder if there is something significantly wrong with it.
>
> chris
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
September 22, 2008 - October 27, 2008
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dd