Commander-Archive.digest.vol-df
November 06, 2008 - December 11, 2008
Gentlemen,
-
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F?-- Im estimating a ferr
y flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use your exp
erience.
-
thanks.
-
wer
-
-
>
- -http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
Hi Willis,
I have a 680Fp which is the same as a 680F except that it has all of the
pressurization equipment in the back. If you have enough oxygen fly
between 16,000 and 18,000 ft., 100' f lean of peak, about 180 to 190
knots true air speed at about 42/44 gallons per hour. Do not try to fly
below about 11,000 feet or your fuel burn will be 55 gallons per hour or
more. If you feel uncomfortable flying lean of peak (which many do)
then go 100 rich of peak and your fuel burn will be slightly more of
course. Sometimes, running that much lean of peak causes the engines to
run a little rough, however, you are so lean that the cyl temps will be
cool and the engine basically "can't hurt its self".
Moe Mills
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
N680RR
680Fp
From: willis robison
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:58 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F? Im estimating a
ferry flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use
your experience.
thanks.
wer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
Willis,
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000 to 18,000 ft. Anything below
this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs. distance traveled suffers.
The one exception is if the headwind at 10,000 is mild and the headwind
at 18,000 is bad.
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Randy, JB. Thats sounds reasonable for a low-level
flight.
Do you guys every fly on oxy? I would think your economy would be
much better at a higher altitude. And with oodles of power to get there
quickly, it should be a snap. I guess with the Time to climb and then
let down, that may not be cost-effective.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA
wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55 gph in
my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F? Im
estimating a ferry flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could
really use your experience.
thanks.
wer
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
Thanks Moe, -makes a lot of sense.-- I would think that an IGSO engin
e swinging +90" props would want to live where they- are most efficient.
-
no chance of +18k?- the supposed service ceiling is in the mid to uppper
20's I thought.- Im looking at a bare plane, no interior as its a former
aerial survey craft.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:24 AM
Willis,
-
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000 to 18,000 ft.- Anything below
this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs. distance traveled suffers.- Th
e one exception is if the headwind at 10,000 is mild and the headwind at 18
,000 is bad.
-
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Randy, JB.- Thats- sounds reasonable for a low-level flight.
-
Do you guys every fly on oxy?- I would think your economy would be much b
etter at a higher altitude.- And with oodles of power to get there quickl
y, it should be a snap.- I guess with the Time to climb and then let down
, that may not be cost-effective.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55 gph in my 680F.
-
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA - 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH.- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
-
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F?-- Im estimating a ferr
y flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use your exp
erience.
-
thanks.
-
wer
-
-
>
- -http://www.matronics.com/contribution< span>
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
Willis,
I generally never fly in class "A" airspace, therefore I can't say with
authority. When I first purchased the plane about 10 years ago I tried
flying in the the low 20's and it didn't seem to be worth the trouble.
Since my bird is pressurized the oxygen tank is only 22 cubic feet which
seems to last about an hour with four people and pressurized flight
above about 21,000 ft. (can't remember exactly) is prohibited by
placard, so the downsides of higher flight generally outnumber the
upsides. The exception to my self imposed 17,999 foot rule is to get
over weather and then descend ASAP.
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Moe, makes a lot of sense. I would think that an IGSO
engine swinging +90" props would want to live where they are most
efficient.
no chance of +18k? the supposed service ceiling is in the mid to
uppper 20's I thought. Im looking at a bare plane, no interior as its a
former aerial survey craft.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons
wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:24 AM
Willis,
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000 to 18,000 ft.
Anything below this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs. distance
traveled suffers. The one exception is if the headwind at 10,000 is
mild and the headwind at 18,000 is bad.
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Randy, JB. Thats sounds reasonable for a
low-level flight.
Do you guys every fly on oxy? I would think your economy
would be much better at a higher altitude. And with oodles of power to
get there quickly, it should be a snap. I guess with the Time to climb
and then let down, that may not be cost-effective.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA
wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55
gph in my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F?
Im estimating a ferry flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and
could really use your experience.
thanks.
wer
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/contribution< span>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
Willis,
One further thought. Your plane will be MUCH lighter than N680RR. With
all of the "stuff" that it has, most flights are made at near gross
weight (about 8,000 lbs.), and the observations made in these emails are
based on this.
Your plane should be a rocket compared to N680RR
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Moe, makes a lot of sense. I would think that an IGSO
engine swinging +90" props would want to live where they are most
efficient.
no chance of +18k? the supposed service ceiling is in the mid to
uppper 20's I thought. Im looking at a bare plane, no interior as its a
former aerial survey craft.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons
wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:24 AM
Willis,
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000 to 18,000 ft.
Anything below this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs. distance
traveled suffers. The one exception is if the headwind at 10,000 is
mild and the headwind at 18,000 is bad.
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Randy, JB. Thats sounds reasonable for a
low-level flight.
Do you guys every fly on oxy? I would think your economy
would be much better at a higher altitude. And with oodles of power to
get there quickly, it should be a snap. I guess with the Time to climb
and then let down, that may not be cost-effective.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA
wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55
gph in my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F?
Im estimating a ferry flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and
could really use your experience.
thanks.
wer
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/contribution< span>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
Well, there will be ferry tanks for fuel and oil.- The size of which depe
nds upon the route taken.- This is a special ferry operation that will ha
ve extended tracks over long stretches of either water or some "not-so hosp
itable" territory.- My initial estimate is for another 100 gal fuel and 2
0 gal oil. (780+ lbs) so the initial TOW may be near max.-
-
Naturally a more benign route would make this a lot easier.-
-
All Diamonds start out "In-The Rough".....its what you put into them that m
ake them shine.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:17 AM
Willis,
-
One further thought.- Your plane will be MUCH lighter than N680RR.- Wit
h all of the "stuff" that it has, most flights are made at near gross weigh
t (about 8,000 lbs.), and the observations made in these emails are based o
n this.
Your plane should be a rocket compared to N680RR
-
Moe
-
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Moe, -makes a lot of sense.-- I would think that an IGSO engin
e swinging +90" props would want to live where they- are most efficient.
-
no chance of +18k?- the supposed service ceiling is in the mid to uppper
20's I thought.- Im looking at a bare plane, no interior as its a former
aerial survey craft.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:24 AM
Willis,
-
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000 to 18,000 ft.- Anything below
this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs. distance traveled suffers.- Th
e one exception is if the headwind at 10,000 is mild and the headwind at 18
,000 is bad.
-
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Randy, JB.- Thats- sounds reasonable for a low-level flight.
-
Do you guys every fly on oxy?- I would think your economy would be much b
etter at a higher altitude.- And with oodles of power to get there quickl
y, it should be a snap.- I guess with the Time to climb and then let down
, that may not be cost-effective.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55 gph in my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA - 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH.- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
-
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F?-- Im estimating a ferr
y flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use your exp
erience.
-
thanks.
-
wer
-
-
>
- -http://www.matronics.com/contribution< span>
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
This is great-BETTER THAN SANTA CLAUS.- You guys have convinced me about
evolution.- I just buried a couple of aluminum cans.- In six billion ye
ars I expect to have a new 500B.- In the mean time I ll keep my old one.
-
dan f
-
-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Or, you could pray for one and God will miracle you a brand new 500B.
I'm sure that'll work, and much faster. Your comparison leaves a little
to be desired, as aluminum is non-organic and can't evolve ;-). I'm sure
God is laughing at both of us anyway, right now.
/J
PS: Isn't the sun due to blow up into a Red Giant in only 2 Billion
years? Better hustle on those cans...
Dan Farmer wrote:
> This is great-*BETTER THAN SANTA CLAUS*. You guys have convinced me
> about evolution. I just buried a couple of aluminum cans. In six
> billion years I expect to have a new 500B. In the mean time I ll keep
> my old one.
>
> dan f
>
>
>
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | peter bichier <peter.bichier(at)utoledo.edu> |
I did notice too! seems a "modernized one" has wing tips... hey for a
bond movie had to choose a refurbished one... seems also that they
have plenty of planes flying in that movie too!
I guess the only one who might have seen it is Barry since it was
premiered on the other side of the pond...
On Nov 6, 2008, at 1:03 AM, nico css wrote:
> Has anyone seen the Commander in the James Bond movie trailer
> Quantum of Solace? It appears very briefly in the background of one
> of the scenes.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
Hi Willis,
What's the Serial Number or "N" number of this former survey Commander?
And, where's it being ferried from and to?
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Well, there will be ferry tanks for fuel and oil. The size of
which depends upon the route taken. This is a special ferry operation
that will have extended tracks over long stretches of either water or
some "not-so hospitable" territory. My initial estimate is for another
100 gal fuel and 20 gal oil. (780+ lbs) so the initial TOW may be near
max.
Naturally a more benign route would make this a lot easier.
All Diamonds start out "In-The Rough".....its what you put into
them that make them shine.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons
wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:17 AM
Willis,
One further thought. Your plane will be MUCH lighter than
N680RR. With all of the "stuff" that it has, most flights are made at
near gross weight (about 8,000 lbs.), and the observations made in these
emails are based on this.
Your plane should be a rocket compared to N680RR
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:45 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Moe, makes a lot of sense. I would think that
an IGSO engine swinging +90" props would want to live where they are
most efficient.
no chance of +18k? the supposed service ceiling is in
the mid to uppper 20's I thought. Im looking at a bare plane, no
interior as its a former aerial survey craft.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons
wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:24 AM
Willis,
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000 to 18,000
ft. Anything below this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs. distance
traveled suffers. The one exception is if the headwind at 10,000 is
mild and the headwind at 18,000 is bad.
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Randy, JB. Thats sounds reasonable for
a low-level flight.
Do you guys every fly on oxy? I would think
your economy would be much better at a higher altitude. And with oodles
of power to get there quickly, it should be a snap. I guess with the
Time to climb and then let down, that may not be cost-effective.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA
wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise
performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true,
and 52 to 55 gph in my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
------------------------------------------------------
From:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise
performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise
performance
Gentlemen,
Are there any active members that own a
AC 680F? Im estimating a ferry flight and need the best altitude/fuel
burn and could really use your experience.
thanks.
wer
>
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/contribution< span>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All,
Nope - not a big movie fan, so not seen the Commander!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: peter bichier
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:37 PM
Subject: Commander-List: James Bond
I did notice too! seems a "modernized one" has wing tips... hey for a
bond movie had to choose a refurbished one... seems also that they have
plenty of planes flying in that movie too!
I guess the only one who might have seen it is Barry since it was
premiered on the other side of the pond...
On Nov 6, 2008, at 1:03 AM, nico css wrote:
Has anyone seen the Commander in the James Bond movie trailer
Quantum of Solace? It appears very briefly in the background of one of
the scenes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
I dont have the SN, but the tail No. is ZK-CDK of new zealand.- I havent
decided to purchase it yet, Im still adding up all the expenses.
-
It may be cheaper just to immigrate to NZ.- Lovely place....and I really
like the ocean too.-
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 10:22 AM
Hi Willis,
-
What's the Serial Number or "N" number of this-former survey-Commander?
And, where's it being ferried from and to?
-
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Well, there will be ferry tanks for fuel and oil.- The size of which depe
nds upon the route taken.- This is a special ferry operation that will ha
ve extended tracks over long stretches of either water or some "not-so hosp
itable" territory.- My initial estimate is for another 100 gal fuel and 2
0 gal oil. (780+ lbs) so the initial TOW may be near max.-
-
Naturally a more benign route would make this a lot easier.-
-
All Diamonds start out "In-The Rough".....its what you put into them that m
ake them shine.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:17 AM
Willis,
-
One further thought.- Your plane will be MUCH lighter than N680RR.- Wit
h all of the "stuff" that it has, most flights are made at near gross weigh
t (about 8,000 lbs.), and the observations made in these emails are based o
n this.
Your plane should be a rocket compared to N680RR
-
Moe
-
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Moe, -makes a lot of sense.-- I would think that an IGSO engin
e swinging +90" props would want to live where they- are most efficient.
-
no chance of +18k?- the supposed service ceiling is in the mid to uppper
20's I thought.- Im looking at a bare plane, no interior as its a former
aerial survey craft.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:24 AM
Willis,
-
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000 to 18,000 ft.- Anything below
this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs. distance traveled suffers.- Th
e one exception is if the headwind at 10,000 is mild and the headwind at 18
,000 is bad.
-
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Randy, JB.- Thats- sounds reasonable for a low-level flight.
-
Do you guys every fly on oxy?- I would think your economy would be much b
etter at a higher altitude.- And with oodles of power to get there quickl
y, it should be a snap.- I guess with the Time to climb and then let down
, that may not be cost-effective.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
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I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55 gph in my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA - 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH.- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
-
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F?-- Im estimating a ferr
y flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use your exp
erience.
-
thanks.
-
wer
-
-
>
- -http://www.matronics.com/contribution< span>
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
Hi Willis,
OK - thanks for letting me know.
As you know, it's a 680F, s/n 1289-132.
So, that makes it the 1289th production Commander and the 132nd 680F
built.
It's been in New Zealand all its life, apart from an initial
registration of N78395 and with just the one owner too, although they
have had a couple of name changes and was initially owned jointly with
the New Zealand Land & Survey Department
Was initially Certificated August 23rd 1963.
Should imagine it's been a well-maintained example, so sincerely hope
everything works out well for you.
If you'd like a suitable note endorsing its purchase to show "her
indoors" . . . just ask ;-)
Very Best Regards,
Barry
P.S. I think Bert Berry has also asked which one you are ferrying.
He's a good source of info for me and he'll respect the privacy of the
info if you tell him.
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
I dont have the SN, but the tail No. is ZK-CDK of new zealand.
I havent decided to purchase it yet, Im still adding up all the
expenses.
It may be cheaper just to immigrate to NZ. Lovely place....and
I really like the ocean too.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Barry Collman
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 10:22 AM
Hi Willis,
What's the Serial Number or "N" number of this former survey
Commander?
And, where's it being ferried from and to?
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Well, there will be ferry tanks for fuel and oil. The
size of which depends upon the route taken. This is a special ferry
operation that will have extended tracks over long stretches of either
water or some "not-so hospitable" territory. My initial estimate is for
another 100 gal fuel and 20 gal oil. (780+ lbs) so the initial TOW may
be near max.
Naturally a more benign route would make this a lot
easier.
All Diamonds start out "In-The Rough".....its what you
put into them that make them shine.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons
wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:17 AM
Willis,
One further thought. Your plane will be MUCH
lighter than N680RR. With all of the "stuff" that it has, most flights
are made at near gross weight (about 8,000 lbs.), and the observations
made in these emails are based on this.
Your plane should be a rocket compared to N680RR
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:45 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Moe, makes a lot of sense. I would
think that an IGSO engine swinging +90" props would want to live where
they are most efficient.
no chance of +18k? the supposed service
ceiling is in the mid to uppper 20's I thought. Im looking at a bare
plane, no interior as its a former aerial survey craft.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons
wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise
performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:24 AM
Willis,
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000
to 18,000 ft. Anything below this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs.
distance traveled suffers. The one exception is if the headwind at
10,000 is mild and the headwind at 18,000 is bad.
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise
performance
Thanks Randy, JB. Thats sounds
reasonable for a low-level flight.
Do you guys every fly on oxy? I would
think your economy would be much better at a higher altitude. And with
oodles of power to get there quickly, it should be a snap. I guess with
the Time to climb and then let down, that may not be cost-effective.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA
wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise
performance
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29
AM
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots
true, and 52 to 55 gph in my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
------------------------------------------------
From:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10
PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise
performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise
performance
Gentlemen,
Are there any active members that own a
AC 680F? Im estimating a ferry flight and need the best altitude/fuel
burn and could really use your experience.
thanks.
wer
>
------------------------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/contribution< span>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680F cruise performance |
Thanks Barry, Ive copied him on this reply.
-
Ill let you know if it comes together.-
-
So far, it appears to be very well taken care of, with few real issues.-
one engine is near TBO but doesnt appear to have any issues at all.- It m
ay take the whole "village" to bring this one home.- As you can imagine,
the shortes- and least expensive route is the friendliest, but the most u
nforgiving.- The path "most traveled by", is almost 20k mi with more poli
tical (and military) obstacles than environmental ones.
-
I dont have my hopes up yet; I prefer to let the numbers fall where they ma
y.
-
thanks-
wer
-
-
-
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:45 PM
Hi Willis,
-
OK - thanks for letting me know.
As you know, it's a 680F, s/n 1289-132.
So, that makes it the 1289th production Commander and the 132nd 680F built.
-
It's been in New Zealand all its life, apart from an initial registration o
f N78395 and with just the one owner too, although they have had a couple o
f name changes and was initially owned jointly with the New Zealand Land &
Survey Department
-
Was initially Certificated August 23rd 1963.
-
Should imagine it's been a well-maintained example, so sincerely hope every
thing works out well for you.
If you'd like a suitable note endorsing its purchase to show "her indoors"
. . . just ask ;-)
-
Very Best Regards,
Barry
-
P.S. I think Bert Berry has also asked which one you are ferrying.
He's a good source of info for me and he'll respect the privacy of the info
if you tell him.
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
I dont have the SN, but the tail No. is ZK-CDK of new zealand.- I havent
decided to purchase it yet, Im still adding up all the expenses.
-
It may be cheaper just to immigrate to NZ.- Lovely place....and I really
like the ocean too.-
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 10:22 AM
Hi Willis,
-
What's the Serial Number or "N" number of this-former survey-Commander?
And, where's it being ferried from and to?
-
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Well, there will be ferry tanks for fuel and oil.- The size of which depe
nds upon the route taken.- This is a special ferry operation that will ha
ve extended tracks over long stretches of either water or some "not-so hosp
itable" territory.- My initial estimate is for another 100 gal fuel and 2
0 gal oil. (780+ lbs) so the initial TOW may be near max.-
-
Naturally a more benign route would make this a lot easier.-
-
All Diamonds start out "In-The Rough".....its what you put into them that m
ake them shine.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:17 AM
Willis,
-
One further thought.- Your plane will be MUCH lighter than N680RR.- Wit
h all of the "stuff" that it has, most flights are made at near gross weigh
t (about 8,000 lbs.), and the observations made in these emails are based o
n this.
Your plane should be a rocket compared to N680RR
-
Moe
-
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Moe, -makes a lot of sense.-- I would think that an IGSO engin
e swinging +90" props would want to live where they- are most efficient.
-
no chance of +18k?- the supposed service ceiling is in the mid to uppper
20's I thought.- Im looking at a bare plane, no interior as its a former
aerial survey craft.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:24 AM
Willis,
-
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000 to 18,000 ft.- Anything below
this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs. distance traveled suffers.- Th
e one exception is if the headwind at 10,000 is mild and the headwind at 18
,000 is bad.
-
Moe
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Randy, JB.- Thats- sounds reasonable for a low-level flight.
-
Do you guys every fly on oxy?- I would think your economy would be much b
etter at a higher altitude.- And with oodles of power to get there quickl
y, it should be a snap.- I guess with the Time to climb and then let down
, that may not be cost-effective.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
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I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55 gph in my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA - 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH.- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
-
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F?-- Im estimating a ferr
y flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use your exp
erience.
-
thanks.
-
wer
-
-
>
- -http://www.matronics.com/contribution< span>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com
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href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
I really wish I could have been here to get into this one. I can only echo
your sentiments because they reflect my love and loyalty for this country as
well. How did we get so many idiots in this country? I know our education
system certainly leaves a lot to be desired but I just can`t understand the
growing ignorance and lack of love for the BEST country on this planet! Perfect?
No but has been the very BEST! I only hope we can get it back on track for our
Grand Kids . I am so sorry I missed out. I`m proud of you. Prouid to beYour
friend, Gil
**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics
Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided
for my your Contributions during this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email
Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | 680F cruise performance |
Guys,
Have a look at ferrying around the Pacific rim, Kamchatka, Aleutians,
Alaska, quite a few use it now, when the weather is right, 690's can do it
on standard tanks.
Hilo to anywhere on the California coast is a long stretch, about 2200nm.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Well, there will be ferry tanks for fuel and oil. The size of which depends
upon the route taken. This is a special ferry operation that will have
extended tracks over long stretches of either water or some "not-so
hospitable" territory. My initial estimate is for another 100 gal fuel and
20 gal oil. (780+ lbs) so the initial TOW may be near max.
Naturally a more benign route would make this a lot easier.
All Diamonds start out "In-The Rough".....its what you put into them that
make them shine.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:17 AM
Willis,
One further thought. Your plane will be MUCH lighter than N680RR. With all
of the "stuff" that it has, most flights are made at near gross weight
(about 8,000 lbs.), and the observations made in these emails are based on
this.
Your plane should be a rocket compared to N680RR
Moe
From: willis <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com> robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Moe, makes a lot of sense. I would think that an IGSO engine
swinging +90" props would want to live where they are most efficient.
no chance of +18k? the supposed service ceiling is in the mid to uppper
20's I thought. Im looking at a bare plane, no interior as its a former
aerial survey craft.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:24 AM
Willis,
Your plane wants to fly its best at 16,000 to 18,000 ft. Anything below
this altitude and the fuel compsuntion vs. distance traveled suffers. The
one exception is if the headwind at 10,000 is mild and the headwind at
18,000 is bad.
Moe
From: willis <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com> robison
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Thanks Randy, JB. Thats sounds reasonable for a low-level flight.
Do you guys every fly on oxy? I would think your economy would be much
better at a higher altitude. And with oodles of power to get there quickly,
it should be a snap. I guess with the Time to climb and then let down, that
may not be cost-effective.
wer
--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:29 AM
I flight plan 10K to 12K at 190 knots true, and 52 to 55 gph in my 680F.
Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Above 10K, 200kts @55GPH. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 8:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: 680F cruise performance
Gentlemen,
Are there any active members that own a AC 680F? Im estimating a ferry
flight and need the best altitude/fuel burn and could really use your
experience.
thanks.
wer
>
_____
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
< span>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Hi Guys,
On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a Commander
520 s/n 133.
The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming 520-cubic-inch
GO-435-C2B engines".
Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Yep, I saw that too.? Maybe they should have you proof the next ome!!? jb
The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B
engines".
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Hi Guys,
?
On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a Commander 520 s/n
133.
?
The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B
engines".
?
Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
?
Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce 2x380x520/435 = 908 hp.
- Wow, I wonder what the GTOW-would be!?
-
I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC.- They all h
ave relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip for the 680/560's)
yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher gross weights.-- Was Ae
ro Design able to argue that the original design was (under powered) or ove
r designed?- Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
-
-
-
--- On Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
Yep, I saw that too.- Maybe they should have you proof the next ome!!-
jb
The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming 520-cubic-inch GO-
435-C2B engines".
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Hi Guys,
-
On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a Commander 52
0 s/n 133.
-
The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming 520-cubic-inch GO-
435-C2B engines".
-
Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
-
Best Regards,
Barry
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Over designed I think.? The same airframe wing structure can carry as much as 8500
pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to 6000 gross.? The gross weight
is determined by the FAA mandated single engine climb performance.? A model
680 has the same power as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross.? Some 680s were
extended to the?"E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds.? jb
Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce 2x380x520/435 = 908 hp.? Wow,
I wonder what the GTOW?would be!?
?
I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC.? They all have relatively
the same wing structure. (longer wingtip for the 680/560's) yet with
bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher gross weights.?? Was Aero Design able to
argue that the original design was (under powered) or over designed?? Which
was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
?
?
?
--- On Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
Yep, I saw that too.? Maybe they should have you proof the next ome!!? jb
The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B
engines".
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Hi Guys,
?
On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a Commander 520 s/n
133.
?
The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B
engines".
?
Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
?
Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
I think so too.
-
I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests.- One for the A380.-
-I was told that it-took 10x the "rated" load before failing.- They s
aid they were pleased with the results so I guess it made it past FAA and J
AR.
--- On Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
Over designed I think.- The same airframe wing structure can carry as muc
h as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to 6000 gross.- The
gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated single engine climb perform
ance.- A model 680 has the same power as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gro
ss.- Some 680s were extended to the-"E" wingspan and the gross went up
to 7500 pounds.- jb
Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
-----Original Message-----
From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce 2x380x520/435 = 908 hp.
- Wow, I wonder what the GTOW-would be!?
-
I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC.- They all h
ave relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip for the 680/560's)
yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher gross weights.-- Was Ae
ro Design able to argue that the original design was (under powered) or ove
r designed?- Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
-
-
-
--- On Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
Yep, I saw that too.- Maybe they should have you proof the next ome!!-
jb
The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming 520-cubic-inch GO-
435-C2B engines".
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Hi Guys,
-
On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a Commander 52
0 s/n 133.
-
The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming 520-cubic-inch GO-
435-C2B engines".
-
Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
-
Best Regards,
Barry
>
================= =0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Jim,
I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
Commanders. They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb.
wing, but I've been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is
essentially the same thing...
/John
willis robison wrote:
> I think so too.
>
> I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for the
> A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing.
> They said they were pleased with the results so I guess it made it
> past FAA and JAR.
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com //* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
>
> Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure can carry
> as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to
> 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated
> single engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same power
> as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were extended to
> the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds. jb
>
> Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce 2x380x520/435
> 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
>
> I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC.
> They all have relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip
> for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher
> gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the original
> design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was it and at
> what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> />/* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
>
> Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof the
> next ome!! jb
>
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a
> Commander 520 s/n 133.
>
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
>
> Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
>
> Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Gents,
-
The following was gleaned from the production data on the commander website
and from the NACA archives.
-
There appears to be two variants of the commander wing; a- 44=92 and a 49
=92- Both variants use the NACA 23012 airfoil from root to tip.-- Thi
s particular airfoil is know for its docile behavior and was widely used by
other aircraft.- Most notably the Beech Staggerwing uses this airfoil as
do other Beech Aircraft, but only in the outboard sections near the ailero
ns.- The Commanders use a single airfoil from root to tip.- This was ch
osen likely for its ease of manufacture.- From a manufacturing standpoint
, adding 5=92 to the wingspan is easier to do by either lengthening the tip
s outboard of the ailerons or increasing the engine/nacelle truss section.
This could mean adding just one or two rib sections
-
The 49=92 wing is the archetype and is featured on all the piston twin comm
anders except the so-called =93straight=94 560 and 680 models.- The 560 w
as produced from 1954 to 1957 and the 680 ran from =9255 to =9258.
-
There is also a notable difference in the fuel capacity for the 44=92 560 w
hich has 145 gals compared to the 500s which have 156 gallons normally.-
All the Long range models of 560E, F and 680F, L,P have 223 gallons- appa
rently using all the available bays inboard of the ailerons.
-
As for weight. It looks like the early models (round nacelle) had usefull l
oads around 2100 lbs with variations trading up or down depending on HP and
Service ceiling.- Twin Commander corporation has mentioned that they don
=92t have model years, per-se; so this has allowed them to make production
runs of a particular type using the same production space.
-
When the Streamlined Nacell was introduced, there was also a notable increa
se in useful load. To about 2300 -to 3200 lbs.- This also improved thei
r service ceiling from an average of 22 kft. To 28kft in the E and F models
.
-
I/ve been chasing this trail during my search for the =93Right=94 Commander
to buy.- Ive focused on a 680F for a lot of reasons, but mostly it has t
he widest range of operating capability, short field, high(er) altitude and
still have a modicum of efficiency for its type. (if you can keep your han
d off the throttle).
-
wer
--- On Sat, 11/8/08, John Vormbaum wrote:
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 1:29 PM
Jim,
I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the Commanders.
They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb. wing, but I've
been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is essentially the same
thing...
/John
willis robison wrote:
> I think so too.
> I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for the
A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing.
They said they were pleased with the results so I guess it made it past FAA
and
JAR.
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com //* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
>
> Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure can carry
> as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to
> 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated
> single engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same power
> as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were extended to
> the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds. jb
>
> Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce
2x380x520/435
> 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
> I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC.
They all have relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip
> for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher
> gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the original
> design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was it and at
> what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> />/* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
>
> Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof the
> next ome!! jb
>
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> Hi Guys,
> On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of
N2621B, a
> Commander 520 s/n 133.
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
> Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *
>
> *
>
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
| From: | craigk391(at)sbcglobal.net |
TXkgbW9uZXkgaXMgb24gdGhlIDU2MEYNCg0KU2VudCB2aWEgQmxhY2tCZXJyeSBieSBBVCZUDQoN
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b290IHRvIHRpcC6goCBUaGlzIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgYWlyZm9pbCBpcyBrbm93IGZvciBpdHMgZG9j
aWxlIGJlaGF2aW9yIGFuZCB3YXMgd2lkZWx5IHVzZWQgYnkgb3RoZXIgYWlyY3JhZnQuoCBNb3N0
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI JOHN...
Nope, when Commander built the first 690 series airplane, the used a completely
different wing structure.? You can easily tell the change by looking at the airplane
from the nose,?the higher gross turbines have a short center section that
extends straight out?from the cabin, then the dihedral.? It is in effect a
"gull wing". ? Lower gross airplanes, like yours and mine, have the dihedral
at the center of the wing.? The reason for the change was to move the turbines
out further from the cabin and allow for larger diameter propellers.? jb
?
I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the Commanders. They're
not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb. wing, but I've been under
the illusion that the wing on my 500B is essentially the same thing...?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
?
Jim,?
?
I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the Commanders. They're
not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb. wing, but I've been under
the illusion that the wing on my 500B is essentially the same thing...?
?
/John?
?
willis robison wrote:?
> I think so too.?
> > I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for the > A380. I was
told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing. > They said they were
pleased with the results so I guess it made it > past FAA and JAR.?
>?
> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com //* wrote:?
>?
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>?
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue?
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com?
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM?
>?
> Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure can carry?
> as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to?
> 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated?
> single engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same power?
> as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were extended to?
> the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds. jb?
>?
> Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum??
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>?
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com?
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm?
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue?
>?
> Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce 2x380x520/435 =?
> 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!??
> > I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC. > They all have
relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip?
> for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher?
> gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the original?
> design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was it and at?
> what HP/gross is the maximum??
> > > >?
>?
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com ?
> />/* wrote:?
>?
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>?
> >?
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall?
> 2008 issue?
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com?
> ?
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM?
>?
> Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof the?
> next ome!! jb?
>?
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming?
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk?
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>?
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com?
> ?
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am?
> Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue?
>?
> Hi Guys,?
> > On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a?
> Commander 520 s/n 133.?
> > The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming?
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".?
> > Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error??
> > Best Regards,?
> Barry?
>?
> *?
>?
> *?
>?
> *?
>?
> *?
>?
>?
> >?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> *?
>?
> *?
>?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
I'll definitely take a close look the next time I see a 500-series and a
690-series airplane side by side!
Thanks for the clarification & education on the particulars of Commander
wings.
/J
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> HI JOHN...
> Nope, when Commander built the first 690 series airplane, the used a
> completely different wing structure. You can easily tell the change
> by looking at the airplane from the nose, the higher gross turbines
> have a short center section that extends straight out from the cabin,
> then the dihedral. It is in effect a "gull wing". Lower gross
> airplanes, like yours and mine, have the dihedral at the center of the
> wing. The reason for the change was to move the turbines out further
> from the cabin and allow for larger diameter propellers. jb
>
>
> I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
> Commanders. They're not? I know the turbines are easily a
> 12,000-lb. wing, but I've been under the illusion that the wing on
> my 500B is essentially the same thing...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 1:29 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> >
>
> Jim,
>
> I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
> Commanders. They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb.
> wing, but I've been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is
> essentially the same thing...
>
> /John
>
> willis robison wrote:
> > I think so too.
> > > I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for the >
> A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing. >
> They said they were pleased with the results so I guess it made it >
> past FAA and JAR.
> >
> > --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> />/* wrote:
> >
> > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com> <yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> >
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
> >
> > Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure can carry
> > as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to
> > 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated
> > single engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same power
> > as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were extended to
> > the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds. jb
> >
> > Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>>
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> >
> > Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce 2x380x520/435 =
> > 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
> > > I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC. >
> They all have relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip
> > for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher
> > gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the original
> > design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was it and at
> > what HP/gross is the maximum?
> > > > >
> >
> > --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> >
> > /
> >/* wrote:
> >
> > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> >
> > >>
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> > 2008 issue
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > >
> > Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
> >
> > Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof the
> > next ome!! jb
> >
> > The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming
> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> > barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk?>>>
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > >
> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> > Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> > > On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a
> > Commander 520 s/n 133.
> > > The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming
> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> > > Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
> > > Best Regards,
> > Barry
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
>
>
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
I didn't know that. I'll be looking out for that too.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
I'll definitely take a close look the next time I see a 500-series and a
690-series airplane side by side!
Thanks for the clarification & education on the particulars of Commander
wings.
/J
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> HI JOHN...
> Nope, when Commander built the first 690 series airplane, the used a
> completely different wing structure. You can easily tell the change
> by looking at the airplane from the nose, the higher gross turbines
> have a short center section that extends straight out from the cabin,
> then the dihedral. It is in effect a "gull wing". Lower gross
> airplanes, like yours and mine, have the dihedral at the center of the
> wing. The reason for the change was to move the turbines out further
> from the cabin and allow for larger diameter propellers. jb
>
>
> I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
> Commanders. They're not? I know the turbines are easily a
> 12,000-lb. wing, but I've been under the illusion that the wing on
> my 500B is essentially the same thing...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 1:29 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> >
>
> Jim,
>
> I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
> Commanders. They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb.
> wing, but I've been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is
> essentially the same thing...
>
> /John
>
> willis robison wrote:
> > I think so too.
> > > I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for the >
> A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing. >
> They said they were pleased with the results so I guess it made it >
> past FAA and JAR.
> >
> > --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> />/* wrote:
> >
> > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com> <yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> >
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
> > issue
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
> >
> > Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure can carry as
> > much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to 6000
> > gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated single
> > engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same power as a 680E
> > but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were extended to the "E"
> > wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds. jb
> >
> > Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com <mailto:drwer2(at)yahoo.com>>
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
> > issue
> >
> > Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce 2x380x520/435
> > 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
> > > I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC. >
> They all have relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip
> > for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher
> > gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the original
> > design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was it and at
> > what HP/gross is the maximum?
> > > > >
> >
> > --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> >
> > /
> >/* wrote:
> >
> > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> >
> > >>
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> > 2008 issue
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > >
> > Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
> >
> > Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof the next ome!!
> > jb
> >
> > The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming
> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> > barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk?>>>
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > >
> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> > Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> > > On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a
> > Commander 520 s/n 133.
> > > The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming
> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> > > Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
> > > Best Regards,
> > Barry
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
>
>
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Hi All,
A factory document in my collection titled "Aircraft Evolution", tells
us the following about the Commander wings:
Wing Drawing 5170000 - Models L-3805, 520 & 560.
Wing Drawing 5170023 - Models 560A & 680.
With the 32-inch wing tip extension - Models 560E, 680E, 720 & 500.
Wing Drawing 5170045 - Models 500A, 500B, 680F, 680F(P) & 560F.
Modified 5170045 for "8500lb" Wing - Models 500U & 500S. (Hence
Certified in Utility & Standard category).
Removed 32-inch wing tip extension - Models 680T, 680V, 680W & 681.
Added 30 inches at wing center section - Models 690, 685, 690A & 690B.
Added 30-inch wing tip extension - Models 690C, 695, 690D, 695A & 695B.
I think the basic wing structure remained the same, the factory "simply"
adding extensions either inboard or outboard.
Capt. JimBob is, of course, right.
The 15" inboard extension each side for the 685 and from the early 690
series did not have any dihedral.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
HI JOHN...
Nope, when Commander built the first 690 series airplane, the used a
completely different wing structure. You can easily tell the change by
looking at the airplane from the nose, the higher gross turbines have a
short center section that extends straight out from the cabin, then the
dihedral. It is in effect a "gull wing". Lower gross airplanes, like
yours and mine, have the dihedral at the center of the wing. The reason
for the change was to move the turbines out further from the cabin and
allow for larger diameter propellers. jb
I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
Commanders. They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb.
wing, but I've been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is
essentially the same thing...
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Jim,
I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
Commanders. They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb.
wing, but I've been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is
essentially the same thing...
/John
willis robison wrote:
> I think so too.
> > I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for the >
A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing. >
They said they were pleased with the results so I guess it made it >
past FAA and JAR.
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com //* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
>
> Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure can carry
> as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to
> 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated
> single engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same power
> as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were extended to
> the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds. jb
>
> Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
issue
>
> Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce 2x380x520/435 =
> 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
> > I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC. >
They all have relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip
> for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher
> gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the original
> design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was it and at
> what HP/gross is the maximum?
> > > >
>
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> />/* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
>
> Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof the
> next ome!! jb
>
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> Hi Guys,
> > On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of N2621B, a
> Commander 520 s/n 133.
> > The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> > Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
> > Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
WER,
Barry this morning has added some drawing number detail to the wing
history.
I 'know' enough to perhaps comment, but not so much that I might not get
it completely right..... So hopefully somebody will correct me where I'm
in error.....
Because of early problems with spars cracking caps the factory took
different approaches to effecting a repair. Some of this I believe is
also partly responsible for some changes in gross. The 500 series is a
good case study. Our 500B has external heavy aluminum spar straps. They
look like leaf springs. We have a lower gross than the 500U and 500S,
which has longer internal strapping of the cap in stainless steel. The
'fix' created its own problem of galvanic corrosion between dissimilar
metals, which remains an issue to this day. So we have a lower gross,
but don't have the corrosion problem of the models with the higher
gross. (The 500B is better looking too, in a full-figured kind of way!)
Somebody correct me where I'm wrong. (And on this list, I can't imagine
not being corrected if anyone thinks I'm wrong!)
The wings are beautiful in a way books and figures can't convey. Take a
look at the twist in the wing on its way outboard.
My Dad spent a lot of time is mainly 680E's all over the world. He loved
them, but I believe he thought the 680F the best of breed.
Ok, now to see if I can get the bulldozer fixed. Sigh........
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Gents,
The following was gleaned from the production data on the
commander website and from the NACA archives.
There appears to be two variants of the commander wing; a 44=92
and a 49=92 Both variants use the NACA 23012 airfoil from root to tip.
This particular airfoil is know for its docile behavior and was widely
used by other aircraft. Most notably the Beech Staggerwing uses this
airfoil as do other Beech Aircraft, but only in the outboard sections
near the ailerons. The Commanders use a single airfoil from root to
tip. This was chosen likely for its ease of manufacture. From a
manufacturing standpoint, adding 5=92 to the wingspan is easier to do by
either lengthening the tips outboard of the ailerons or increasing the
engine/nacelle truss section. This could mean adding just one or two rib
sections
The 49=92 wing is the archetype and is featured on all the
piston twin commanders except the so-called =93straight=94 560 and 680
models. The 560 was produced from 1954 to 1957 and the 680 ran from
=9255 to =9258.
There is also a notable difference in the fuel capacity for the
44=92 560 which has 145 gals compared to the 500s which have 156 gallons
normally. All the Long range models of 560E, F and 680F, L,P have 223
gallons apparently using all the available bays inboard of the
ailerons.
As for weight. It looks like the early models (round nacelle)
had usefull loads around 2100 lbs with variations trading up or down
depending on HP and Service ceiling. Twin Commander corporation has
mentioned that they don=92t have model years, per-se; so this has
allowed them to make production runs of a particular type using the same
production space.
When the Streamlined Nacell was introduced, there was also a
notable increase in useful load. To about 2300 to 3200 lbs. This also
improved their service ceiling from an average of 22 kft. To 28kft in
the E and F models.
I/ve been chasing this trail during my search for the
=93Right=94 Commander to buy. Ive focused on a 680F for a lot of
reasons, but mostly it has the widest range of operating capability,
short field, high(er) altitude and still have a modicum of efficiency
for its type. (if you can keep your hand off the throttle).
wer
--- On Sat, 11/8/08, John Vormbaum wrote:
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
2008 issue
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 1:29 PM
Jim,
I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
Commanders.
They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb. wing, but I've
been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is essentially the same
thing...
/John
willis robison wrote:
> I think so too.
> I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for the
A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing.
They said they were pleased with the results so I guess it made it past
FAA and
JAR.
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com //* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
>
> Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure can carry
> as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to
> 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated
> single engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same power
> as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were extended to
> the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds. jb
>
> Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
issue
>
> Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce
2x380x520/435
> 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
> I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC.
They all have relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip
> for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher
> gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the original
> design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was it and at
> what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> />/* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
>
> Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof the
> next ome!! jb
>
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
issue
>
> Hi Guys,
> On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of
N2621B, a
> Commander 520 s/n 133.
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
> Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Hi All,
The typical wing twist aspect is indeed interesting.
Looking at the 560E, for example, the incidence at the wing root was 3
degrees. while that at the tip was minus 3.5 degrees.
Looking at the 560A, for example, the incidence at the wing root was 3
degrees. while that at the tip was minus 1 degree.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve W
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
WER,
Barry this morning has added some drawing number detail to the wing
history.
I 'know' enough to perhaps comment, but not so much that I might not
get it completely right..... So hopefully somebody will correct me where
I'm in error.....
Because of early problems with spars cracking caps the factory took
different approaches to effecting a repair. Some of this I believe is
also partly responsible for some changes in gross. The 500 series is a
good case study. Our 500B has external heavy aluminum spar straps. They
look like leaf springs. We have a lower gross than the 500U and 500S,
which has longer internal strapping of the cap in stainless steel. The
'fix' created its own problem of galvanic corrosion between dissimilar
metals, which remains an issue to this day. So we have a lower gross,
but don't have the corrosion problem of the models with the higher
gross. (The 500B is better looking too, in a full-figured kind of way!)
Somebody correct me where I'm wrong. (And on this list, I can't
imagine not being corrected if anyone thinks I'm wrong!)
The wings are beautiful in a way books and figures can't convey. Take
a look at the twist in the wing on its way outboard.
My Dad spent a lot of time is mainly 680E's all over the world. He
loved them, but I believe he thought the 680F the best of breed.
Ok, now to see if I can get the bulldozer fixed. Sigh........
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
issue
Gents,
The following was gleaned from the production data on the
commander website and from the NACA archives.
There appears to be two variants of the commander wing; a
44=92 and a 49=92 Both variants use the NACA 23012 airfoil from root to
tip. This particular airfoil is know for its docile behavior and was
widely used by other aircraft. Most notably the Beech Staggerwing uses
this airfoil as do other Beech Aircraft, but only in the outboard
sections near the ailerons. The Commanders use a single airfoil from
root to tip. This was chosen likely for its ease of manufacture. From
a manufacturing standpoint, adding 5=92 to the wingspan is easier to do
by either lengthening the tips outboard of the ailerons or increasing
the engine/nacelle truss section. This could mean adding just one or two
rib sections
The 49=92 wing is the archetype and is featured on all the
piston twin commanders except the so-called =93straight=94 560 and 680
models. The 560 was produced from 1954 to 1957 and the 680 ran from
=9255 to =9258.
There is also a notable difference in the fuel capacity for
the 44=92 560 which has 145 gals compared to the 500s which have 156
gallons normally. All the Long range models of 560E, F and 680F, L,P
have 223 gallons apparently using all the available bays inboard of the
ailerons.
As for weight. It looks like the early models (round nacelle)
had usefull loads around 2100 lbs with variations trading up or down
depending on HP and Service ceiling. Twin Commander corporation has
mentioned that they don=92t have model years, per-se; so this has
allowed them to make production runs of a particular type using the same
production space.
When the Streamlined Nacell was introduced, there was also a
notable increase in useful load. To about 2300 to 3200 lbs. This also
improved their service ceiling from an average of 22 kft. To 28kft in
the E and F models.
I/ve been chasing this trail during my search for the
=93Right=94 Commander to buy. Ive focused on a 680F for a lot of
reasons, but mostly it has the widest range of operating capability,
short field, high(er) altitude and still have a modicum of efficiency
for its type. (if you can keep your hand off the throttle).
wer
--- On Sat, 11/8/08, John Vormbaum wrote:
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
2008 issue
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 1:29 PM
Jim,
I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
Commanders.
They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb. wing, but I've
been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is essentially the same
thing...
/John
willis robison wrote:
> I think so too.
> I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for the
A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing.
They said they were pleased with the results so I guess it made it past
FAA and
JAR.
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com //* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
>
> Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure can carry
> as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to
> 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated
> single engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same power
> as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were extended to
> the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds. jb
>
> Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
issue
>
> Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce
2x380x520/435
> 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
> I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC.
They all have relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip
> for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher
> gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the original
> design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was it and at
> what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> />/* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
>
> Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof the
> next ome!! jb
>
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008
issue
>
> Hi Guys,
> On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of
N2621B, a
> Commander 520 s/n 133.
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
> Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *
>
> *
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Good Morning Steve,
While I had the pleasure of flying several of the early model Aero
Commanders forty-five to fifty years ago, I have NEVER worked on one and have
absolutely NO knowledge as to how they are built.
Nevertheless, may I make a comment?
Just because the wing on two different models happens to look the same does
not mean the strength is the same. Adding a full web to a spar that previously
used a Warren or Pratt truss can makes a major difference as can increasing
the skin thickness of a rib or a D-tube leading edge. The very earliest,
lightest weight, and weakest Bonanza wing can be physically bolted on to a Twin
Bonanza. All control surfaces will hook up properly with no problems at all.
The only thing that won't work is the landing gear. Some method would have to
be devised to keep the landing gear doors closed, but the airplane could be
flown. The wing would not be as strong as is needed to meet the FAA
requirements, but it would fly and only a close examination of the wing would
reveal
that there were small visible changes.
May I not assume that the engineers who designed the Aero Commander used
similar techniques to both lighten the structure where high loads were not
required and beef the structure where high loads were to be carried?
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 11/9/2008 6:51:44 A.M. Central Standard Time,
steve2(at)sover.net writes:
Because of early problems with spars cracking caps the factory took
different approaches to effecting a repair. Some of this I believe is also partly
responsible for some changes in gross. The 500 series is a good case study. Our
500B has external heavy aluminum spar straps. They look like leaf springs. We
have a lower gross than the 500U and 500S, which has longer internal
strapping of the cap in stainless steel. The 'fix' created its own problem of
galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals, which remains an issue to this day.
So we have a lower gross, but don't have the corrosion problem of the models
with the higher gross. (The 500B is better looking too, in a full-figured kind
of way!)
**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Barry Collman wrote:
> I think the basic wing structure remained the same, the factory
> "simply" adding extensions either inboard or outboard.
Barry,
Do the drawings you have show the internal structure in detail? If so,
I'd love to see them. Although the Commander wings appear to be
virtually identical externally, I believe there are many structural
differences internally. I certainly have not had the opportunity to
compare the wings closely, but from my casual viewing through inspection
holes, I believe there are very substantial and subtle upgrades in the
strength of the structure as the line progressed.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Chris,
I don't have the actual Drawings, just a document detailing the basic changes
from one Model to another, grouped by the wing detail.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
|
| Barry Collman wrote:
| > I think the basic wing structure remained the same, the factory
| > "simply" adding extensions either inboard or outboard.
|
| Barry,
| Do the drawings you have show the internal structure in detail? If so,
| I'd love to see them. Although the Commander wings appear to be
| virtually identical externally, I believe there are many structural
| differences internally. I certainly have not had the opportunity to
| compare the wings closely, but from my casual viewing through inspection
| holes, I believe there are very substantial and subtle upgrades in the
| strength of the structure as the line progressed.
|
| Chris
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Now,thats interesting.- The effect of increasing the "washout" is to (a).
move the center of lift inboard, (b.) decrease overall lift and (c) improv
e slow speed handling and stall characteristics.-These are subtle changes
. -This change would not have a major effect on-MTOW but would place th
e stress where the wing was stronger.-
-
I'd give anything to see any production drawings.
-
Thanks again Barry for being our Nexus.
-
Willis
-
--- On Sun, 11/9/08, Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 5:00 AM
Hi All,
-
The typical wing twist aspect is indeed interesting.
-
Looking at the 560E, for example, the-incidence at the wing root-was 3
degrees. while that at the tip was minus 3.5 degrees.
-
Looking at the 560A, for example, the-incidence at the wing root-was 3
degrees. while that at the tip was minus-1 degree.
-
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve W
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
WER,
-
Barry this morning has added some drawing number detail to the wing history
.
-
I 'know' enough to perhaps comment, but not so much that I might not get it
completely right..... So hopefully somebody will correct me where I'm in e
rror.....
-
Because of early problems with spars cracking caps the factory took differe
nt approaches to effecting a repair. Some of this I believe is also partly
responsible for some changes in gross. The 500 series is a good case study.
Our 500B has external heavy aluminum spar straps. They look like leaf spri
ngs. We have a lower gross than the 500U and 500S, which has longer interna
l strapping of the cap in stainless steel. The 'fix' created its own proble
m of galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals, which remains an issue t
o this day. So we have a lower gross, but don't have the corrosion problem
of the models with the higher gross. (The 500B is better looking too, in a
full-figured kind of way!)
-
Somebody correct me where I'm wrong. (And on this list, I can't imagine not
being corrected if anyone thinks I'm wrong!)
-
The wings are beautiful-in a way-books and figures-can't convey. Take
a look at the twist in the wing on its way outboard.
-
My Dad spent a lot of time is mainly 680E's all over the world. He loved th
em, but I believe he thought the 680F the best of breed.
-
Ok, now to see if I can get the bulldozer fixed. Sigh........
-
Steve-
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Gents,
-
The following was gleaned from the production data on the commander website
and from the NACA archives.
-
There appears to be two variants of the commander wing; a- 44=92 and a 49
=92- Both variants use the NACA 23012 airfoil from root to tip.-- Thi
s particular airfoil is know for its docile behavior and was widely used by
other aircraft.- Most notably the Beech Staggerwing uses this airfoil as
do other Beech Aircraft, but only in the outboard sections near the ailero
ns.- The Commanders use a single airfoil from root to tip.- This was ch
osen likely for its ease of manufacture.- From a manufacturing standpoint
, adding 5=92 to the wingspan is easier to do by either lengthening the tip
s outboard of the ailerons or increasing the engine/nacelle truss section.
This could mean adding just one or two rib sections
-
The 49=92 wing is the archetype and is featured on all the piston twin comm
anders except the so-called =93straight=94 560 and 680 models.- The 560 w
as produced from 1954 to 1957 and the 680 ran from =9255 to =9258.
-
There is also a notable difference in the fuel capacity for the 44=92 560 w
hich has 145 gals compared to the 500s which have 156 gallons normally.-
All the Long range models of 560E, F and 680F, L,P have 223 gallons- appa
rently using all the available bays inboard of the ailerons.
-
As for weight. It looks like the early models (round nacelle) had usefull l
oads around 2100 lbs with variations trading up or down depending on HP and
Service ceiling.- Twin Commander corporation has mentioned that they don
=92t have model years, per-se; so this has allowed them to make production
runs of a particular type using the same production space.
-
When the Streamlined Nacell was introduced, there was also a notable increa
se in useful load. To about 2300 -to 3200 lbs.- This also improved thei
r service ceiling from an average of 22 kft. To 28kft in the E and F models
.
-
I/ve been chasing this trail during my search for the =93Right=94 Commander
to buy.- Ive focused on a 680F for a lot of reasons, but mostly it has t
he widest range of operating capability, short field, high(er) altitude and
still have a modicum of efficiency for its type. (if you can keep your han
d off the throttle).
-
wer
--- On Sat, 11/8/08, John Vormbaum wrote:
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 1:29 PM
Jim,
I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the Commanders.
They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb. wing, but I've
been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is essentially the same
thing...
/John
willis robison wrote:
> I think so too.
> I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for the
A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing.
They said they were pleased with the results so I guess it made it past FAA
and
JAR.
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com //* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
>
> Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure can carry
> as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited to
> 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA mandated
> single engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same power
> as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were extended to
> the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds. jb
>
> Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce
2x380x520/435
> 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
> I've always been curious about the wing/loading for these AC.
They all have relatively the same wing structure. (longer wingtip
> for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed higher
> gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the original
> design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was it and at
> what HP/gross is the maximum?
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> />/* wrote:
>
> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
>
> Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof the
> next ome!! jb
>
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> Hi Guys,
> On page 7 of the subject magazine there's a photo of
N2621B, a
> Commander 520 s/n 133.
> The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
Lycoming
> 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate) error?
> Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *
>
> *
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Willis,
My money is on reason "c". The washout on the Commanders was primarily
to aid in low-speed handling; you want the wing root to stall before the
tip so that you can maintain directional control. I've heard it cited
that this is the reason that during his famous routine Bob Hoover was
able to fly the airplane vertically to near-zero airspeed, but still
have aileron authority and not drop a wing. I don't know if that's the
honest truth, but we all know how well these airplanes do at low speed.
I would think that using washout to decrease overall lift is
inefficient; you could just use less wing and get better performance
numbers, right? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!
/John
willis robison wrote:
> Now,thats interesting. The effect of increasing the "washout" is to
> (a). move the center of lift inboard, (b.) decrease overall lift and
> (c) improve slow speed handling and stall characteristics. These are
> subtle changes. This change would not have a major effect on MTOW but
> would place the stress where the wing was stronger.
>
> I'd give anything to see any production drawings.
>
> Thanks again Barry for being our Nexus.
>
> Willis
>
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 11/9/08, Barry Collman
> /<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>/* wrote:
>
> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 5:00 AM
>
> Hi All,
>
> The typical wing twist aspect is indeed interesting.
>
> Looking at the 560E, for example, the incidence at the wing
> root was 3 degrees. while that at the tip was minus 3.5 degrees.
>
> Looking at the 560A, for example, the incidence at the wing
> root was 3 degrees. while that at the tip was minus 1 degree.
>
> Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Steve W
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> 2008 issue
>
> WER,
>
> Barry this morning has added some drawing number detail to the
> wing history.
>
> I 'know' enough to perhaps comment, but not so much that I
> might not get it completely right..... So hopefully somebody
> will correct me where I'm in error.....
>
> Because of early problems with spars cracking caps the factory
> took different approaches to effecting a repair. Some of this
> I believe is also partly responsible for some changes in
> gross. The 500 series is a good case study. Our 500B has
> external heavy aluminum spar straps. They look like leaf
> springs. We have a lower gross than the 500U and 500S, which
> has longer internal strapping of the cap in stainless steel.
> The 'fix' created its own problem of galvanic corrosion
> between dissimilar metals, which remains an issue to this day.
> So we have a lower gross, but don't have the corrosion problem
> of the models with the higher gross. (The 500B is better
> looking too, in a full-figured kind of way!)
>
> Somebody correct me where I'm wrong. (And on this list, I
> can't imagine not being corrected if anyone thinks I'm wrong!)
>
> The wings are beautiful in a way books and figures can't
> convey. Take a look at the twist in the wing on its way outboard.
>
> My Dad spent a lot of time is mainly 680E's all over the
> world. He loved them, but I believe he thought the 680F the
> best of breed.
>
> Ok, now to see if I can get the bulldozer fixed. Sigh........
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* willis robison
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine -
> Fall 2008 issue
>
> Gents,
>
> The following was gleaned from the production data on the
> commander website and from the NACA archives.
>
>
>
> There appears to be two variants of the commander wing; a
> 44 and a 49 Both variants use the NACA 23012 airfoil
> from root to tip. This particular airfoil is know for
> its docile behavior and was widely used by other
> aircraft. Most notably the Beech Staggerwing uses this
> airfoil as do other Beech Aircraft, but only in the
> outboard sections near the ailerons. The Commanders use a
> single airfoil from root to tip. This was chosen likely
> for its ease of manufacture. From a manufacturing
> standpoint, adding 5 to the wingspan is easier to do by
> either lengthening the tips outboard of the ailerons or
> increasing the engine/nacelle truss section. This could
> mean adding just one or two rib sections
>
>
>
> The 49 wing is the archetype and is featured on all the
> piston twin commanders except the so-called straight 560
> and 680 models. The 560 was produced from 1954 to 1957
> and the 680 ran from 55 to 58.
>
>
>
> There is also a notable difference in the fuel capacity
> for the 44 560 which has 145 gals compared to the 500s
> which have 156 gallons normally. All the Long range
> models of 560E, F and 680F, L,P have 223 gallons
> apparently using all the available bays inboard of the
> ailerons.
>
>
>
> As for weight. It looks like the early models (round
> nacelle) had usefull loads around 2100 lbs with variations
> trading up or down depending on HP and Service ceiling.
> Twin Commander corporation has mentioned that they dont
> have model years, per-se; so this has allowed them to make
> production runs of a particular type using the same
> production space.
>
>
>
> When the Streamlined Nacell was introduced, there was also
> a notable increase in useful load. To about 2300 to 3200
> lbs. This also improved their service ceiling from an
> average of 22 kft. To 28kft in the E and F models.
>
>
>
> I/ve been chasing this trail during my search for the
> Right Commander to buy. Ive focused on a 680F for a lot
> of reasons, but mostly it has the widest range of
> operating capability, short field, high(er) altitude and
> still have a modicum of efficiency for its type. (if you
> can keep your hand off the throttle).
>
>
>
> wer
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, John Vormbaum //*
> wrote:
>
> From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine -
> Fall 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 1:29 PM
>
>
> Jim,
>
> I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all the
Commanders.
> They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb. wing,
but I've
> been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is essentially
the same
> thing...
>
> /John
>
> willis robison wrote:
> > I think so too.
> > I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One for
the
> A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load before failing.
> They said they were pleased with the results so I guess it made
it past FAA and
> JAR.
> >
> > --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com //*
wrote:
> >
> > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
2008 issue
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
> >
> > Over designed I think. The same airframe wing structure
can carry
> > as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are limited
to
> > 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the FAA
mandated
> > single engine climb performance. A model 680 has the same
power
> > as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s were
extended to
> > the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500 pounds.
jb
> >
> > Which was it and at what HP/gross is the maximum?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
2008 issue
> >
> > Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce
> 2x380x520/435
> > 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
> > I've always been curious about the wing/loading for
these AC.
> They all have relatively the same wing structure. (longer
wingtip
> > for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA allowed
higher
> > gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that the
original
> > design was (under powered) or over designed? Which was
it and at
> > what HP/gross is the maximum?
> >
> >
> > --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> > />/* wrote:
> >
> > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> > >
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine
- Fall
> > 2008 issue
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
> >
> > Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have you proof
the
> > next ome!! jb
> >
> > The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
> Lycoming
> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> > barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> > Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
2008 issue
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> > On page 7 of the subject magazine there's
a photo of
> N2621B, a
> > Commander 520 s/n 133.
> > The text says it's powered by "a pair of geared
> Lycoming
> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> > Has anyone else spotted the (not deliberate)
error?
> > Best Regards,
> > Barry
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
I think you're right on the money John. Ill bet that was the intent and the
other effects-were-probably insignificant-and- just trade offs.
-
wer.
--- On Sun, 11/9/08, John Vormbaum wrote:
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:09 AM
Willis,
My money is on reason "c". The washout on the Commanders was
primarily to aid in low-speed handling; you want the wing root to stall bef
ore
the tip so that you can maintain directional control. I've heard it cited
that this is the reason that during his famous routine Bob Hoover was able
to
fly the airplane vertically to near-zero airspeed, but still have aileron
authority and not drop a wing. I don't know if that's the honest truth,
but we all know how well these airplanes do at low speed.
I would think that using washout to decrease overall lift is inefficient; y
ou
could just use less wing and get better performance numbers, right? I'm sur
e
someone will correct me if I'm wrong!
/John
willis robison wrote:
> Now,thats interesting. The effect of increasing the "washout"
is to (a). move the center of lift inboard, (b.) decrease overall lift and
(c)
improve slow speed handling and stall characteristics. These are subtle cha
nges.
This change would not have a major effect on MTOW but would place the stre
ss
where the wing was stronger. I'd give anything to see any production
drawings.
> Thanks again Barry for being our Nexus.
> Willis
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 11/9/08, Barry Collman
/<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>/* wrote:
>
> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 5:00 AM
>
> Hi All,
> The typical wing twist aspect is indeed interesting.
> Looking at the 560E, for example, the incidence at the wing
> root was 3 degrees. while that at the tip was minus 3.5 degrees.
> Looking at the 560A, for example, the incidence at the wing
> root was 3 degrees. while that at the tip was minus 1 degree.
> Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Steve W
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
> 2008 issue
>
> WER,
> Barry this morning has added some drawing number detail
to the
> wing history.
> I 'know' enough to perhaps comment, but not so
much that I
> might not get it completely right..... So hopefully somebody
> will correct me where I'm in error.....
> Because of early problems with spars cracking caps the
factory
> took different approaches to effecting a repair. Some of this
> I believe is also partly responsible for some changes in
> gross. The 500 series is a good case study. Our 500B has
> external heavy aluminum spar straps. They look like leaf
> springs. We have a lower gross than the 500U and 500S, which
> has longer internal strapping of the cap in stainless steel.
> The 'fix' created its own problem of galvanic corrosion
> between dissimilar metals, which remains an issue to this day.
> So we have a lower gross, but don't have the corrosion problem
> of the models with the higher gross. (The 500B is better
> looking too, in a full-figured kind of way!)
> Somebody correct me where I'm wrong. (And on this
list, I
> can't imagine not being corrected if anyone thinks I'm
wrong!)
> The wings are beautiful in a way books and figures
can't
> convey. Take a look at the twist in the wing on its way outboard.
> My Dad spent a lot of time is mainly 680E's all over
the
> world. He loved them, but I believe he thought the 680F the
> best of breed.
> Ok, now to see if I can get the bulldozer fixed.
Sigh........
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* willis robison
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine -
> Fall 2008 issue
>
> Gents,
> The following was gleaned from the production
data on the
> commander website and from the NACA archives.
>
>
> There appears to be two variants of the commander wing; a
44=92 and a 49=92 Both variants use the NACA 23012 airfoil
> from root to tip. This particular airfoil is know for
> its docile behavior and was widely used by other
> aircraft. Most notably the Beech Staggerwing uses this
> airfoil as do other Beech Aircraft, but only in the
> outboard sections near the ailerons. The Commanders use a
> single airfoil from root to tip. This was chosen likely
> for its ease of manufacture. From a manufacturing
> standpoint, adding 5=92 to the wingspan is easier to do by
> either lengthening the tips outboard of the ailerons or
> increasing the engine/nacelle truss section. This could
> mean adding just one or two rib sections
>
>
> The 49=92 wing is the archetype and is featured on all the
> piston twin commanders except the so-called =93straight=94 56
0
> and 680 models. The 560 was produced from 1954 to 1957
> and the 680 ran from =9255 to =9258.
>
>
> There is also a notable difference in the fuel capacity
> for the 44=92 560 which has 145 gals compared to the 500s
> which have 156 gallons normally. All the Long range
> models of 560E, F and 680F, L,P have 223 gallons
apparently using all the available bays inboard of the
> ailerons.
>
>
> As for weight. It looks like the early models (round
> nacelle) had usefull loads around 2100 lbs with variations
> trading up or down depending on HP and Service ceiling.
Twin Commander corporation has mentioned that they don=92t
> have model years, per-se; so this has allowed them to make
> production runs of a particular type using the same
> production space.
>
>
> When the Streamlined Nacell was introduced, there was also
> a notable increase in useful load. To about 2300 to 3200
> lbs. This also improved their service ceiling from an
> average of 22 kft. To 28kft in the E and F models.
>
>
> I/ve been chasing this trail during my search for the
> =93Right=94 Commander to buy. Ive focused on a 680F for a lo
t
> of reasons, but mostly it has the widest range of
> operating capability, short field, high(er) altitude and
> still have a modicum of efficiency for its type. (if you
> can keep your hand off the throttle).
>
>
> wer
>
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, John Vormbaum
//*
> wrote:
>
> From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine -
> Fall 2008 issue
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 1:29 PM
>
>
> Jim,
>
> I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on
all the Commanders.
> They're not? I know the turbines are easily a
12,000-lb. wing, but I've
> been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is
essentially the same
> thing...
>
> /John
>
> willis robison wrote:
> > I think so too.
> > I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load
tests. One for the
> A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated"
load before failing. They said they were pleased with the
results so I guess it made it past FAA and
> JAR.
> > > --- On *Sat, 11/8/08,
yourtcfg(at)aol.com //* wrote:
> > > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels
magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
> > > Over designed I think. The
same airframe wing structure can carry
> > as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders
are limited to
> > 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by
the FAA mandated
> > single engine climb performance. A model 680 has
the same power
> > as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s
were extended to
> > the "E" wingspan and the gross went up
to 7500 pounds. jb
> > > Which was it and at what
HP/gross is the maximum?
> > > >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels
magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> > > Well, if "ome" has
520 ci then they would produce
> 2x380x520/435
> > 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
> > I've always been curious about the
wing/loading for these AC.
> They all have relatively the same wing structure.
(longer wingtip
> > for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines,
the FAA allowed higher
> > gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue
that the original
> > design was (under powered) or over designed?
Which was it and at
> > what HP/gross is the maximum?
> > >
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> > />/* wrote:
> > > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
> > >
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels
magazine - Fall
> > 2008 issue
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
> > > Yep, I saw that too.
Maybe they should have you proof the
> > next ome!! jb
> > > The text says
it's powered by "a pair of geared
> Lycoming
> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> > > >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Barry Collman
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
> >
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
> > Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels
magazine - Fall 2008 issue
> > > Hi Guys,
> > On page 7 of the subject magazine
there's a photo of
> N2621B, a
> > Commander 520 s/n 133.
> > The text says it's powered by
"a pair of geared
> Lycoming
> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
> > Has anyone else spotted the (not
deliberate) error?
> > Best Regards,
> > Barry
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > > >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *
> > > *
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
Dozer fixed...... Whew.
John, seems like there might be more factors at play with the washout? You
could 'tune' a wing for best efficiency to fit anticipated speed, load and
altitude, yes? At speed and low angles of attack, negative a couple degrees
must be close to lift neutral (and less drag).
Forgetting my book learning. Too tired to remember, too lazy to look it up.
All things being equal, is the angle of attack increasing per altitude?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>
> Willis,
>
> My money is on reason "c". The washout on the Commanders was primarily to
> aid in low-speed handling; you want the wing root to stall before the tip
> so that you can maintain directional control. I've heard it cited that
> this is the reason that during his famous routine Bob Hoover was able to
> fly the airplane vertically to near-zero airspeed, but still have aileron
> authority and not drop a wing. I don't know if that's the honest truth,
> but we all know how well these airplanes do at low speed.
>
> I would think that using washout to decrease overall lift is inefficient;
> you could just use less wing and get better performance numbers, right?
> I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!
>
> /John
>
> willis robison wrote:
>> Now,thats interesting. The effect of increasing the "washout" is to (a).
>> move the center of lift inboard, (b.) decrease overall lift and (c)
>> improve slow speed handling and stall characteristics. These are subtle
>> changes. This change would not have a major effect on MTOW but would
>> place the stress where the wing was stronger. I'd give anything to see
>> any production drawings.
>> Thanks again Barry for being our Nexus.
>> Willis
>>
>>
>> --- On *Sun, 11/9/08, Barry Collman /<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>/*
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 5:00 AM
>>
>> Hi All,
>> The typical wing twist aspect is indeed interesting.
>> Looking at the 560E, for example, the incidence at the wing
>> root was 3 degrees. while that at the tip was minus 3.5 degrees.
>> Looking at the 560A, for example, the incidence at the wing
>> root was 3 degrees. while that at the tip was minus 1 degree.
>> Best Regards,
>> Barry
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Steve W
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:50 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine - Fall
>> 2008 issue
>>
>> WER,
>> Barry this morning has added some drawing number detail to the
>> wing history.
>> I 'know' enough to perhaps comment, but not so much that I
>> might not get it completely right..... So hopefully somebody
>> will correct me where I'm in error.....
>> Because of early problems with spars cracking caps the factory
>> took different approaches to effecting a repair. Some of this
>> I believe is also partly responsible for some changes in
>> gross. The 500 series is a good case study. Our 500B has
>> external heavy aluminum spar straps. They look like leaf
>> springs. We have a lower gross than the 500U and 500S, which
>> has longer internal strapping of the cap in stainless steel.
>> The 'fix' created its own problem of galvanic corrosion
>> between dissimilar metals, which remains an issue to this day.
>> So we have a lower gross, but don't have the corrosion problem
>> of the models with the higher gross. (The 500B is better
>> looking too, in a full-figured kind of way!)
>> Somebody correct me where I'm wrong. (And on this list, I
>> can't imagine not being corrected if anyone thinks I'm wrong!)
>> The wings are beautiful in a way books and figures can't
>> convey. Take a look at the twist in the wing on its way outboard.
>> My Dad spent a lot of time is mainly 680E's all over the
>> world. He loved them, but I believe he thought the 680F the
>> best of breed.
>> Ok, now to see if I can get the bulldozer fixed. Sigh........
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* willis robison
>> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:06 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine -
>> Fall 2008 issue
>>
>> Gents,
>> The following was gleaned from the production data on the
>> commander website and from the NACA archives.
>>
>>
>> There appears to be two variants of the commander wing; a 44
>> and a 49 Both variants use the NACA 23012 airfoil
>> from root to tip. This particular airfoil is know for
>> its docile behavior and was widely used by other
>> aircraft. Most notably the Beech Staggerwing uses this
>> airfoil as do other Beech Aircraft, but only in the
>> outboard sections near the ailerons. The Commanders use a
>> single airfoil from root to tip. This was chosen likely
>> for its ease of manufacture. From a manufacturing
>> standpoint, adding 5 to the wingspan is easier to do by
>> either lengthening the tips outboard of the ailerons or
>> increasing the engine/nacelle truss section. This could
>> mean adding just one or two rib sections
>>
>>
>> The 49 wing is the archetype and is featured on all the
>> piston twin commanders except the so-called straight 560
>> and 680 models. The 560 was produced from 1954 to 1957
>> and the 680 ran from 55 to 58.
>>
>>
>> There is also a notable difference in the fuel capacity
>> for the 44 560 which has 145 gals compared to the 500s
>> which have 156 gallons normally. All the Long range
>> models of 560E, F and 680F, L,P have 223 gallons apparently
>> using all the available bays inboard of the
>> ailerons.
>>
>>
>> As for weight. It looks like the early models (round
>> nacelle) had usefull loads around 2100 lbs with variations
>> trading up or down depending on HP and Service ceiling. Twin
>> Commander corporation has mentioned that they dont
>> have model years, per-se; so this has allowed them to make
>> production runs of a particular type using the same
>> production space.
>>
>>
>> When the Streamlined Nacell was introduced, there was also
>> a notable increase in useful load. To about 2300 to 3200
>> lbs. This also improved their service ceiling from an
>> average of 22 kft. To 28kft in the E and F models.
>>
>>
>> I/ve been chasing this trail during my search for the
>> Right Commander to buy. Ive focused on a 680F for a lot
>> of reasons, but mostly it has the widest range of
>> operating capability, short field, high(er) altitude and
>> still have a modicum of efficiency for its type. (if you
>> can keep your hand off the throttle).
>>
>>
>> wer
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, John Vormbaum //*
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine -
>> Fall 2008 issue
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 1:29 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> I thought the wing & spar structures were the same on all
>> the Commanders.
>> They're not? I know the turbines are easily a 12,000-lb.
>> wing, but I've
>> been under the illusion that the wing on my 500B is
>> essentially the same
>> thing...
>>
>> /John
>>
>> willis robison wrote:
>> > I think so too.
>> > I was a spectator at a few "ultimate" load tests. One
>> for the
>> A380. I was told that it took 10x the "rated" load
>> before failing. They said they were pleased with the results so I guess
>> it made it past FAA and
>> JAR.
>> > > --- On *Sat, 11/8/08, yourtcfg(at)aol.com
>> //* wrote:
>> > > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
>> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels
>> magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
>> > > Over designed I think. The same airframe wing
>> structure can carry
>> > as much as 8500 pounds, thought some Commanders are
>> limited to
>> > 6000 gross. The gross weight is determined by the
>> FAA mandated
>> > single engine climb performance. A model 680 has
>> the same power
>> > as a 680E but a 500 pound lower gross. Some 680s
>> were extended to
>> > the "E" wingspan and the gross went up to 7500
>> pounds. jb
>> > > Which was it and at what HP/gross is the
>> maximum?
>> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com>
>> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 6:55 pm
>> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels
>> magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>> > > Well, if "ome" has 520 ci then they would produce
>> 2x380x520/435
>> > 908 hp. Wow, I wonder what the GTOW would be!?
>> > I've always been curious about the
>> wing/loading for these AC.
>> They all have relatively the same wing structure.
>> (longer wingtip
>> > for the 680/560's) yet with bigger engines, the FAA
>> allowed higher
>> > gross weights. Was Aero Design able to argue that
>> the original
>> > design was (under powered) or over designed? Which
>> was it and at
>> > what HP/gross is the maximum?
>> > > > --- On *Fri, 11/7/08,
>> yourtcfg(at)aol.com
>> > />/*
>> wrote:
>> > > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
>>
>> > >
>> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels
>> magazine - Fall
>> > 2008 issue
>> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> >
>> > Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
>> > > Yep, I saw that too. Maybe they should have
>> you proof the
>> > next ome!! jb
>> > > The text says it's powered by "a pair of
>> geared
>> Lycoming
>> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
>> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Barry Collman
>> <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk
>> > barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>>
>> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> >
>> > Sent: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 9:08 am
>> > Subject: Commander-List: Flight Levels
>> magazine - Fall 2008 issue
>> > > Hi Guys,
>> > On page 7 of the subject magazine
>> there's a photo of
>> N2621B, a
>> > Commander 520 s/n 133.
>> > The text says it's powered by "a pair
>> of geared
>> Lycoming
>> > 520-cubic-inch GO-435-C2B engines".
>> > Has anyone else spotted the (not
>> deliberate) error?
>> > Best Regards,
>> > Barry
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > > > >
>>
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>>
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> " target=_blank
>> rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CARIBBEAN COMMANDER |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS..
I will be off line for a couple of weeks.? I am leaving in the AM to fly to San
Juan PR to do an annual inspection on a TCFG members airplane, N107VC, a 500B,
S/N 001.? It is great airplane with new paint and air conditioning.? When I
am finished, My wife Sue and I along with two other couples will depart for an?
aerial?tour of? PR and then off to the island of vieques and on the St Thomas.?
We will then head for the Island of Culebra.? There is the most wonderful
beach in all of the Caribbean there.? After a swim and a snack on the water we
will return to?the?Isla Grande airport.? The next day we will all board a cruse
ship for a week in the Eastern Caribbean.? It should be a great time,? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | CARIBBEAN COMMANDER |
That sounds like a good time, have fun.
JimA
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: Commander-List: CARIBBEAN COMMANDER
HI KIDS..
I will be off line for a couple of weeks. I am leaving in the AM to fly to
San Juan PR to do an annual inspection on a TCFG members airplane, N107VC, a
500B, S/N 001. It is great airplane with new paint and air conditioning.
When I am finished, My wife Sue and I along with two other couples will
depart for an aerial tour of PR and then off to the island of vieques and
on the St Thomas. We will then head for the Island of Culebra. There is
the most wonderful beach in all of the Caribbean there. After a swim and a
snack on the water we will return to the Isla Grande airport. The next day
we will all board a cruse ship for a week in the Eastern Caribbean. It
should be a great time, jb
_____
Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | CARIBBEAN COMMANDER |
Take a lot of pictures and video, if you can, especially the flight parts.
Work, work, work; it never ends, right?
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:52 PM
Subject: Commander-List: CARIBBEAN COMMANDER
HI KIDS..
I will be off line for a couple of weeks. I am leaving in the AM to fly to
San Juan PR to do an annual inspection on a TCFG members airplane, N107VC, a
500B, S/N 001. It is great airplane with new paint and air conditioning.
When I am finished, My wife Sue and I along with two other couples will
depart for an aerial tour of PR and then off to the island of vieques and
on the St Thomas. We will then head for the Island of Culebra. There is
the most wonderful beach in all of the Caribbean there. After a swim and a
snack on the water we will return to the Isla Grande airport. The next day
we will all board a cruse ship for a week in the Eastern Caribbean. It
should be a great time, jb
_____
Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of
my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CARIBBEAN COMMANDER |
Hi JimBob,
"It should be a great time"?
It should be far better than that ;-)
I hope you and Sue have a truly memorable break and hopefully we'll hear
all about the trip when you return home.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:52 AM
Subject: Commander-List: CARIBBEAN COMMANDER
HI KIDS..
I will be off line for a couple of weeks. I am leaving in the AM to
fly to San Juan PR to do an annual inspection on a TCFG members
airplane, N107VC, a 500B, S/N 001. It is great airplane with new paint
and air conditioning. When I am finished, My wife Sue and I along with
two other couples will depart for an aerial tour of PR and then off to
the island of vieques and on the St Thomas. We will then head for the
Island of Culebra. There is the most wonderful beach in all of the
Caribbean there. After a swim and a snack on the water we will return
to the Isla Grande airport. The next day we will all board a cruse ship
for a week in the Eastern Caribbean. It should be a great time, jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CARIBBEAN COMMANDER |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Have a great cruise!!
I notice this 500B has just popped up for sale.
Cheers from Oz
On 10/11/08 9:23 PM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
wrote:
> Hi JimBob,
>
> "It should be a great time"?
> It should be far better than that ;-)
>
> I hope you and Sue have a truly memorable break and hopefully we'll hear all
> about the trip when you return home.
>
> Very Best Regards,
> Barry
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
>>
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:52 AM
>>
>> Subject: Commander-List: CARIBBEAN COMMANDER
>>
>>
>> HI KIDS..
>> I will be off line for a couple of weeks. I am leaving in the AM to fly to
>> San Juan PR to do an annual inspection on a TCFG members airplane, N107VC,
a
>> 500B, S/N 001. It is great airplane with new paint and air conditioning.
>> When I am finished, My wife Sue and I along with two other couples will
>> depart for an aerial tour of PR and then off to the island of vieques and
>> on the St Thomas. We will then head for the Island of Culebra. There is
>> the most wonderful beach in all of the Caribbean there. After a swim and a
>> snack on the water we will return to the Isla Grande airport. The next day
>> we will all board a cruse ship for a week in the Eastern Caribbean. It
>> should be a great time, jb
>>
>>
>>
>> Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
>> avigator?Commander-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CARIBBEAN COMMANDER |
Hi JimBob,
Forgot to mention this earlier, but say "Hello" to Jimmy from me!
Seems ages since we last saw him.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:52 AM
Subject: Commander-List: CARIBBEAN COMMANDER
HI KIDS..
I will be off line for a couple of weeks. I am leaving in the AM to
fly to San Juan PR to do an annual inspection on a TCFG members
airplane, N107VC, a 500B, S/N 001. It is great airplane with new paint
and air conditioning. When I am finished, My wife Sue and I along with
two other couples will depart for an aerial tour of PR and then off to
the island of vieques and on the St Thomas. We will then head for the
Island of Culebra. There is the most wonderful beach in all of the
Caribbean there. After a swim and a snack on the water we will return
to the Isla Grande airport. The next day we will all board a cruse ship
for a week in the Eastern Caribbean. It should be a great time, jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
OK, just looking at the published performances (Bert Berry's pamphlets, TCFG's):
if (c) is true, how come it works for certain models and not others?
the straight 560 for ex. has a shorter 50' take off (950') and landing (860') capabilities
than the 560E Take off (1425') & landing (1500') or even comparing
with the 560A (same fuselage lengh) which needs 1240' (Take off) & 1340' (landing)?
so in this case, the 560A with shorter wings has shorter landing than its extended
counter part (same applies for take off)
however, the 680E did gain on shorter take off (1525' vs 1540 on the 680) but exactly
same landing for both: 1625'
as of the effect on speed: the 680 has a max speed of 230 mph instead of 225 for
the 680E, so there it seems the extended wing has a detrimental effect on speed.
[quote="drwer2"]Now,thats interesting. The effect of increasing the "washout" is
to (a). move the center of lift inboard, (b.) decrease overall lift and (c)
improve slow speed handling and stall characteristics.These are subtle changes.
This change would not have a major effect onMTOW but would place the stress
where the wing was stronger.
I'd give anything to see any production drawings.
Thanks again Barry for being our Nexus.
Willis
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=213776#213776
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I thought all on the list would enjoy this...
http://www.nicsysco.com/media/nationalanthem.wmv
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: National Anthem |
Beautiful, I always liked the U.S.A. anthem.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:38 PM
Subject: Commander-List: National Anthem
I thought all on the list would enjoy this...
http://www.nicsysco.com/media/nationalanthem.wmv
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%... |
As of the 13th, the Fund Raiser is currently about 30% behind last year in terms
of the number of Contributions. Yet, oddly the number of messages posted per
day is up by 10 to 20% on the average. It costs real money to run these Lists
and they are supported 100% though your Contributions during the Fund Raiser.
Won't you please take a minute right now to make your Contribution to keep
these Lists up and running?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question.
Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides
for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on
the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing
List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades
enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search
Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for 19+ years worth of online archive
data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the
many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications
that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums,
Wiki and PhotoShare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many
places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days?
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable
List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its
one of the best investments you can make in your Sport...
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine - Fall 2008 issue |
I think the early aircraft had shorter T.O. distance because the Flight
Manual called for lifting off as soon as possible retract the gear then
accelerate to VMC. They latter changed that to lift off above VMC which adds to
the
T.O. distance.
Bill Leff
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Vent heat Test? |
Commanders-
Does anyone have a fool-proof method for testing the fuel vent heaters?
On a whim I decided to test them by turning on the battery, connecting the
buses and activating the L/R Pitot and Fuel Vent heaters.
Pitots heated up enough that you could fry an egg- but the fuel probes did
not warm even slightly.
This made me wonder if the fuel vent heaters are load-shed without a
generator on-line? (Yes yes- sometimes I have trouble keeping the big
airplane stuff and the Commander stuff segregated in my brain..you should
have seen me flaring at an eyeball height of 70'.. HAHAHAH.. Oh
boy..fortunately it turned out okay for everyone except my ego.)
We're getting into the ugly part of the icing season out here- and I'm going
to be making a bunch of trips over the mountains during the winter- so I
want to make sure my ice survival equipment is in top working condition.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent heat Test? |
Robert,
The fuel vent heaters and the lift detector (stall warning switch) have
temperature control on them so that they will not feel hot to the touch.
The fuel vent heaters (at least on my bird) do not feel hot on a cold
day, however they are warmer than the surrounding under wing skin. If
you get a definitive answer about testing please share. Quite some time
ago I made a similar post and did not get a complete reply from anyone.
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Robert S. Randazzo
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:20 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Commanders-
Does anyone have a fool-proof method for testing the fuel vent heaters?
On a whim I decided to test them by turning on the battery, connecting
the buses and activating the L/R Pitot and Fuel Vent heaters.
Pitots heated up enough that you could fry an egg- but the fuel probes
did not warm even slightly.
This made me wonder if the fuel vent heaters are load-shed without a
generator on-line? (Yes yes- sometimes I have trouble keeping the big
airplane stuff and the Commander stuff segregated in my brain..you
should have seen me flaring at an eyeball height of 70'.. HAHAHAH.. Oh
boy..fortunately it turned out okay for everyone except my ego.)
We're getting into the ugly part of the icing season out here- and I'm
going to be making a bunch of trips over the mountains during the
winter- so I want to make sure my ice survival equipment is in top
working condition.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike floyd <floydgm(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Vent heat Test? |
Fill a cup with ice water and submerge the vents wait a few minutes and the
n turn them on. Or remove the vent heaters and put them in the freezer=2C u
sing an ohmeter see if there is continuity through the thermostats.
From: moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.comTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: R
e: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?Date: Mon=2C 17 Nov 2008 06:51:26 -0
800
Robert=2C
The fuel vent heaters and the lift detector (stall warning switch) have tem
perature control on them so that they will not feel hot to the touch. The f
uel vent heaters (at least on my bird) do not feel hot on a cold day=2C how
ever they are warmer than the surrounding under wing skin. If you get a de
finitive answer about testing please share. Quite some time ago I made a s
imilar post and did not get a complete reply from anyone.
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Robert S. Randazzo
Sent: Monday=2C November 17=2C 2008 2:20 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Commanders-
Does anyone have a fool-proof method for testing the fuel vent heaters?
On a whim I decided to test them by turning on the battery=2C connecting th
e buses and activating the L/R Pitot and Fuel Vent heaters.
Pitots heated up enough that you could fry an egg- but the fuel probes did
not warm even slightly.
This made me wonder if the fuel vent heaters are load-shed without a genera
tor on-line? (Yes yes- sometimes I have trouble keeping the big airplane
stuff and the Commander stuff segregated in my brain=85.you should have see
n me flaring at an eyeball height of 70=92.. HAHAHAH=85. Oh boy=85.fortunat
ely it turned out okay for everyone except my ego=85)
We=92re getting into the ugly part of the icing season out here- and I=92m
going to be making a bunch of trips over the mountains during the winter- s
o I want to make sure my ice survival equipment is in top working condition
.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________________________
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious emai
l.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safe
ty_112008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent heat Test? |
Mike,
Do you think that it would be OK just to spray them with a c02 fire
extinguisher?
Moe
From: mike floyd
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Fill a cup with ice water and submerge the vents wait a few minutes and
then turn them on. Or remove the vent heaters and put them in the
freezer, using an ohmeter see if there is continuity through the
thermostats.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:51:26 -0800
Robert,
The fuel vent heaters and the lift detector (stall warning switch) have
temperature control on them so that they will not feel hot to the touch.
The fuel vent heaters (at least on my bird) do not feel hot on a cold
day, however they are warmer than the surrounding under wing skin. If
you get a definitive answer about testing please share. Quite some time
ago I made a similar post and did not get a complete reply from anyone.
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Robert S. Randazzo
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:20 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Commanders-
Does anyone have a fool-proof method for testing the fuel vent heaters?
On a whim I decided to test them by turning on the battery, connecting
the buses and activating the L/R Pitot and Fuel Vent heaters.
Pitots heated up enough that you could fry an egg- but the fuel probes
did not warm even slightly.
This made me wonder if the fuel vent heaters are load-shed without a
generator on-line? (Yes yes- sometimes I have trouble keeping the big
airplane stuff and the Commander stuff segregated in my brain=85.you
should have seen me flaring at an eyeball height of 70=92.. HAHAHAH=85.
Oh boy=85.fortunately it turned out okay for everyone except my ego=85)
We=92re getting into the ugly part of the icing season out here- and
I=92m going to be making a bunch of trips over the mountains during the
winter- so I want to make sure my ice survival equipment is in top
working condition.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious
email. Sign up today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike floyd <floydgm(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Vent heat Test? |
Never tried that let me know. Probably.
From: moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.comTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: R
e: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?Date: Mon=2C 17 Nov 2008 07:14:13 -0
800
Mike=2C
Do you think that it would be OK just to spray them with a c02 fire extingu
isher?
Moe
From: mike floyd
Sent: Monday=2C November 17=2C 2008 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Fill a cup with ice water and submerge the vents wait a few minutes and the
n turn them on. Or remove the vent heaters and put them in the freezer=2C u
sing an ohmeter see if there is continuity through the thermostats.
From: moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.comTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: R
e: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?Date: Mon=2C 17 Nov 2008 06:51:26 -0
800
Robert=2C
The fuel vent heaters and the lift detector (stall warning switch) have tem
perature control on them so that they will not feel hot to the touch. The f
uel vent heaters (at least on my bird) do not feel hot on a cold day=2C how
ever they are warmer than the surrounding under wing skin. If you get a de
finitive answer about testing please share. Quite some time ago I made a s
imilar post and did not get a complete reply from anyone.
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Robert S. Randazzo
Sent: Monday=2C November 17=2C 2008 2:20 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Commanders-
Does anyone have a fool-proof method for testing the fuel vent heaters?
On a whim I decided to test them by turning on the battery=2C connecting th
e buses and activating the L/R Pitot and Fuel Vent heaters.
Pitots heated up enough that you could fry an egg- but the fuel probes did
not warm even slightly.
This made me wonder if the fuel vent heaters are load-shed without a genera
tor on-line? (Yes yes- sometimes I have trouble keeping the big airplane
stuff and the Commander stuff segregated in my brain=85.you should have see
n me flaring at an eyeball height of 70=92.. HAHAHAH=85. Oh boy=85.fortunat
ely it turned out okay for everyone except my ego=85)
We=92re getting into the ugly part of the icing season out here- and I=92m
going to be making a bunch of trips over the mountains during the winter- s
o I want to make sure my ice survival equipment is in top working condition
.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ronics.com
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious emai
l. Sign up today.
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willis robison <drwer2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent heat Test? |
1. The vent heaters-are not-generally controlled-by a switch, just th
e breaker and an internal thermostat.- On smaller planes, its just a ligh
t bulb.
-
2.- $2.00 will buy you a can of electrical contact cleaner or just a can
of compressed air (for cleaning computer parts). and a $10 volt-ohm-meter.
-
3. Open the inspection port, you'll need access to the leads at the vent he
ater. Disconnect the power lead and test between the power and the heater.
- It should show an "open" circuit (if the temp is above ~40F).
-
4.- Give the vent/heater body-a shot of cleaner to chill it down.....Th
e heater has a thermostat which should close and the VOM should show power
going to the heater.- (it should also feel warmer to the touch if only fo
r the time it takes to warm up to ambient temp.
-
-
Another way is to remove the vent heater and do the same test on a bench, i
nside where its warmer.
-
If you are still unsure, spend the $65 to have your A/P do it and have him
swear on a stack FAA manuals.- I prefer to wait in the customer lounge an
d chat up the FBO secretary....
----
-
what was that saying...."Nothing in life is sure....less so..........- oh
well, I forget."
-
wer
--- On Mon, 11/17/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 7:14 AM
Mike,
-
Do you think that it would be OK just to spray them with a c02 fire extingu
isher?
-
Moe
From: mike floyd
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Fill a cup with ice water and submerge the vents wait a few minutes and the
n turn them on. Or remove the vent heaters and put them in the freezer, usi
ng an ohmeter see if there is continuity through the thermostats.
From: moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:51:26 -0800
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Robert,
-
The fuel vent heaters and the lift detector (stall warning switch) have tem
perature control on them so that they will not feel hot to the touch.-The
fuel vent heaters (at least on my bird) do not feel hot on a cold day, how
ever they are warmer than the surrounding under wing skin.- If you get a
definitive answer about testing please share.- Quite some time ago I made
a similar post and did not get a complete reply from anyone.
-
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Robert S. Randazzo
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:20 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Commanders-
Does anyone have a fool-proof method for testing the fuel vent heaters?
-
On a whim I decided to test them by turning on the battery, connecting the
buses and activating the L/R Pitot and Fuel Vent heaters.
-
Pitots heated up enough that you could fry an egg- but the fuel probes did
not warm even slightly.
-
This made me wonder if the fuel vent heaters are load-shed without a genera
tor on-line?-- (Yes yes- sometimes I have trouble keeping the big airpl
ane stuff and the Commander stuff segregated in my brain=85.you should have
seen me flaring at an eyeball height of 70=92.. HAHAHAH=85. Oh boy=85.fort
unately it turned out okay for everyone except my ego=85)
-
We=92re getting into the ugly part of the icing season out here- and I=92m
going to be making a bunch of trips over the mountains during the winter- s
o I want to make sure my ice survival equipment is in top working condition
.
-
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
-
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ronics.com
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Vent heat Test? |
Willis, et al-
Thanks- these are all helpful.
I'm not shy about having my shop looking at squawks. I do quite a bit of
work with them on a few different airplanes- so I get top notch service and
no BS whatsoever when it comes to billing or having someone stop by the
hangar to look at something that catches my attention.
By the same token- it occurred to me that I don't really know enough about
those vent heaters to determine if they are working properly or not- so I
thought it was important to correct my deficiency.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
1. The vent heaters are not generally controlled by a switch, just the
breaker and an internal thermostat. On smaller planes, its just a light
bulb.
2. $2.00 will buy you a can of electrical contact cleaner or just a can of
compressed air (for cleaning computer parts). and a $10 volt-ohm-meter.
3. Open the inspection port, you'll need access to the leads at the vent
heater. Disconnect the power lead and test between the power and the heater.
It should show an "open" circuit (if the temp is above ~40F).
4. Give the vent/heater body a shot of cleaner to chill it down.....The
heater has a thermostat which should close and the VOM should show power
going to the heater. (it should also feel warmer to the touch if only for
the time it takes to warm up to ambient temp.
Another way is to remove the vent heater and do the same test on a bench,
inside where its warmer.
If you are still unsure, spend the $65 to have your A/P do it and have him
swear on a stack FAA manuals. I prefer to wait in the customer lounge and
chat up the FBO secretary....
----
what was that saying...."Nothing in life is sure....less so.......... oh
well, I forget."
wer
--- On Mon, 11/17/08, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 7:14 AM
Mike,
Do you think that it would be OK just to spray them with a c02 fire
extinguisher?
Moe
From: mike <mailto:floydgm(at)hotmail.com> floyd
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Fill a cup with ice water and submerge the vents wait a few minutes and then
turn them on. Or remove the vent heaters and put them in the freezer, using
an ohmeter see if there is continuity through the thermostats.
_____
From: moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:51:26 -0800
Robert,
The fuel vent heaters and the lift detector (stall warning switch) have
temperature control on them so that they will not feel hot to the touch. The
fuel vent heaters (at least on my bird) do not feel hot on a cold day,
however they are warmer than the surrounding under wing skin. If you get a
definitive answer about testing please share. Quite some time ago I made a
similar post and did not get a complete reply from anyone.
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Robert S. Randazzo <mailto:rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:20 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuel Vent heat Test?
Commanders-
Does anyone have a fool-proof method for testing the fuel vent heaters?
On a whim I decided to test them by turning on the battery, connecting the
buses and activating the L/R Pitot and Fuel Vent heaters.
Pitots heated up enough that you could fry an egg- but the fuel probes did
not warm even slightly.
This made me wonder if the fuel vent heaters are load-shed without a
generator on-line? (Yes yes- sometimes I have trouble keeping the big
airplane stuff and the Commander stuff segregated in my brain..you should
have seen me flaring at an eyeball height of 70'.. HAHAHAH.. Oh
boy..fortunately it turned out okay for everyone except my ego.)
We're getting into the ugly part of the icing season out here- and I'm going
to be making a bunch of trips over the mountains during the winter- so I
want to make sure my ice survival equipment is in top working condition.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ronics.com
_____
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email. Sign up today.
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_112008>
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | What Members Are Saying... |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | fuel vent heat check |
This is so easy.- Turn on the master switch, turn on the pitot/fuel vent
heat switch now take about 2 minutes then put your lips on the vents like y
ou were to suck a straw.- Be sure to do this before you suck on the pitot
tube.- Otherwise your lips will be burned so bad you will never be able
to feel the slight warmth from the vent.- If you really do this you deser
ve what you get.- In all seriousness, my vents are always quite warm to t
he touch in about 30 seconds after turning on the heat switch.- I serious
ly doubt that airframes of this vintage and size have load shedding.- In
the 1960's I don't think Boeing or Douglas was using auto load shedding.-
I think it was called a flight engineer.- CHECK ESSENTIAL!!!
-
dan f=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel vent heat check |
Dan,
Thanks for the advice! My fuel vent heaters spliced into the air speed
indicator wires. Load shedding seems to be limited to pulling the
circuit breaker or turning off the switch, except the stall warning
horn, and it is hot wired.
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Dan Farmer
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:05 AM
Subject: Commander-List: fuel vent heat check
This is so easy. Turn on the master switch, turn on the
pitot/fuel vent heat switch now take about 2 minutes then put your lips
on the vents like you were to suck a straw. Be sure to do this before
you suck on the pitot tube. Otherwise your lips will be burned so bad
you will never be able to feel the slight warmth from the vent. If you
really do this you deserve what you get. In all seriousness, my vents
are always quite warm to the touch in about 30 seconds after turning on
the heat switch. I seriously doubt that airframes of this vintage and
size have load shedding. In the 1960's I don't think Boeing or Douglas
was using auto load shedding. I think it was called a flight engineer.
CHECK ESSENTIAL!!!
dan f
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
Moe,
Then I guess that make you da flight engineer.- I assume when you
say they are tied into your air speed you are talking about the pitot
heat wires.- I do not know why you would have any other wires
going to your static/pitot system unless someone has put in some type
of air data system which seems unlikely.
But when it comes to Commanders I must bow to the holder of the GOLDEN PEDA
L!!
dan
69U
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Old WWII footage |
I found this on YouTube - mainly about Beaufighters, but there are some
shots of a Boston/Havoc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsUdbzQCm_Y&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | And Bostons/Havocs in action |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AC8HoUvdW0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Behind By 21% - Advertising May Be Needed...? |
Dear Listers,
The percentage of people making a Contribution to support the Lists this year is
currently lagging behind last year by approximately 21%! I'm hoping that everyone
is just waiting until the last minute to show their support... ;-)
Please remember that it is solely your direct Contributions that keep these Lists
up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members don't want to
support the Lists directly, then I will likely have to start adding advertisements
to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I *really* don't want to
have to start doing that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and
I think that a lot of the members appreciate that too.
Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free
operation of all these Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already
made their generous Contribution to support the Lists! Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort
of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some lame magazine or even just a single dinner out. Isn't the
List worth at least that much to you?
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support the
Lists?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel vent heat check |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.? I might suggest that all of yall with vent heaters contact John Towner.?
He has an "approved into known icing", (which the fuel vent heaters are not)
STCd fuel vent protector that installs in just a few minutes, just in front
of the vent and eliminates the need for the troublesome electric units.? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 7:39 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: fuel vent heat check
Dan,
?
Thanks for the advice!? My fuel vent heaters?spliced into the air speed indicator
wires.? Load shedding seems to be limited to pulling the circuit breaker or
turning off the switch, except the stall warning horn, and it is hot wired.
?
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
?
From: Dan Farmer
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:05 AM
Subject: Commander-List: fuel vent heat check
This is so easy.? Turn on the master switch, turn on the pitot/fuel vent heat switch
now take about 2 minutes then put your lips on the vents like you were to
suck a straw.? Be sure to do this before you suck on the pitot tube.? Otherwise
your lips will be burned so bad you will never be able to feel the slight
warmth from the vent.? If you really do this you deserve what you get.? In all
seriousness, my vents are always quite warm to the touch in about 30 seconds
after turning on the heat switch.? I seriously doubt that airframes of this vintage
and size have load shedding.? In the 1960's I don't think Boeing or Douglas
was using auto load shedding.? I think it was called a flight engineer.? CHECK
ESSENTIAL!!!
?
dan f
3D============================================= href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D============================================= href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 3D============================================= href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'http://forums.matronics.com 3D=============================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel vent heat check |
Jim,
How was your Caribbean vacation? Give us the scoop! How's Jimmy doing?
/John
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> HI KIDS. I might suggest that all of yall with vent heaters contact
> John Towner. He has an "approved into known icing", (which the fuel
> vent heaters are not) STCd fuel vent protector that installs in just a
> few minutes, just in front of the vent and eliminates the need for the
> troublesome electric units. jb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 7:39 am
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: fuel vent heat check
>
> *Dan,*
> **
> *Thanks for the advice! My fuel vent heaters spliced into the air
> speed indicator wires. Load shedding seems to be limited to pulling
> the circuit breaker or turning off the switch, except the stall
> warning horn, and it is hot wired.*
> **
> *Moe*
> *N680RR*
> *Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award*
>
>
> *From:* Dan Farmer
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:05 AM
> *To:* commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
>
> *Subject:* Commander-List: fuel vent heat check
>
> This is so easy. Turn on the master switch, turn on the pitot/fuel
> vent heat switch now take about 2 minutes then put your lips on the
> vents like you were to suck a straw. Be sure to do this before you
> suck on the pitot tube. Otherwise your lips will be burned so bad you
> will never be able to feel the slight warmth from the vent. If you
> really do this you deserve what you get. In all seriousness, my vents
> are always quite warm to the touch in about 30 seconds after turning
> on the heat switch. I seriously doubt that airframes of this vintage
> and size have load shedding. In the 1960's I don't think Boeing or
> Douglas was using auto load shedding. I think it was called a flight
> engineer. CHECK ESSENTIAL!!!
>
> dan f
>
>
> * 3D============================================= href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D============================================= href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 3D============================================= href='3D"
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel vent heat check |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
IT WAS GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!? I did the annual on Jimmy's Commander then borrowed
it to fly Sue and I and two other couples to Culebra.? Flamenco beach is the
number two most beautiful beach in all the Caribbean and it really is.? We had
lunch in town at a little place called the Dingy Dock where you can literally
eat you hamburger in paradise while you soak your feet in the Caribbean.? There
were half a dozen 4,to 5, long Tarpon fish under the dock.? They are really
impressive fish and show bright silver when the sun shines on them.? I found
a good size male iguana to chase into the water.? We the shopped around town
a bit and headed for the beach.? There were a few "T" storms in the distance
and had the water a bit disturbed.? The normally calm beach had 4 to 5 foot breakers
and we had a total blast!!!? We spent two hours frolicking in the waves,
body surfing and enjoying the wonderfully, warm water.? There is an old abandoned
WW 2 tank on the next beach over and we walked
over to it.? We then flew back to Isle Grande airport in air conditioned, Commander
comfort and boarded the cruse ship the next day. A big thank you to TCFG
member Sergio Molina for rounding up his jacks and a mule for the retract test.?
Sergio operates a straight 500 on a 135?certificate and is a really nice guy.?
While the ship was leaving the port of St Lucia, we were all standing on
the deck and lo and behold, a 500B (short nose) entered the patter at the airport
and landed!!? way cool.? Jimmy is doing great,? We got a tour of his new home
in Old San Juan,? It is a truly amazing project.? It will be two years of
work when complete in the spring and worth every day.? I am sure you will?be able
to see it in an architectural magazine someday.? His wife and kids are well,
although his wife was suffering from some back pain.? On another note.? Saw
the 007 movie last night and there is a brief scene of a Commander , only in
the background.? Also, My bride was watching "Wife Sw
a
p" a couple of days ago and there was several really good shots of
Turbine, dash 10 in the story.? They episode was filmed in FL.? Sue and I are leaving
a a couple of hours to fly triple 2 to Idaho for "T" day.? Then back to
work delivering a 560E from Morris shop to FL.? jb
How was your Caribbean vacation? Give us the scoop! How's Jimmy doing?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 8:31 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: fuel vent heat check
?
Jim,?
?
How was your Caribbean vacation? Give us the scoop! How's Jimmy doing??
?
/John?
?
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:?
> HI KIDS. I might suggest that all of yall with vent heaters contact > John Towner.
He has an "approved into known icing", (which the fuel > vent heaters are
not) STCd fuel vent protector that installs in just a > few minutes, just in
front of the vent and eliminates the need for the > troublesome electric units.
jb?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>?
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com?
> Sent: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 7:39 am?
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: fuel vent heat check?
>?
> *Dan,*?
> ** > *Thanks for the advice! My fuel vent heaters spliced into the air > speed
indicator wires. Load shedding seems to be limited to pulling > the circuit
breaker or turning off the switch, except the stall > warning horn, and it is
hot wired.*?
> ** > *Moe*?
> *N680RR*?
> *Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award*?
> >?
> *From:* Dan Farmer ?
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:05 AM?
> *To:* commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com > ?
> *Subject:* Commander-List: fuel vent heat check?
>?
> This is so easy. Turn on the master switch, turn on the pitot/fuel > vent heat
switch now take about 2 minutes then put your lips on the > vents like you were
to suck a straw. Be sure to do this before you > suck on the pitot tube. Otherwise
your lips will be burned so bad you > will never be able to feel the
slight warmth from the vent. If you > really do this you deserve what you get.
In all seriousness, my vents > are always quite warm to the touch in about 30
seconds after turning > on the heat switch. I seriously doubt that airframes
of this vintage > and size have load shedding. In the 1960's I don't think Boeing
or > Douglas was using auto load shedding. I think it was called a flight
> engineer. CHECK ESSENTIAL!!!?
> > dan f?
>?
>?
> * 3D============================================= href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D============================================= href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 3D============================================= href='3D"?
>?
> *?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel vent heat check |
Wow Jim, sounds like you had a great time! I bet you feel refreshed
after that. Poor guy, having to get back to "the grind" of flying
Commanders hither and yon.....
yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> IT WAS GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!! I did the annual on Jimmy's Commander
> then borrowed it to fly Sue and I and two other couples to Culebra.
> Flamenco beach is the number two most beautiful beach in all the
> Caribbean and it really is. We had lunch in town at a little place
> called the Dingy Dock where you can literally eat you hamburger in
> paradise while you soak your feet in the Caribbean. There were half a
> dozen 4,to 5, long Tarpon fish under the dock. They are really
> impressive fish and show bright silver when the sun shines on them. I
> found a good size male iguana to chase into the water. We the shopped
> around town a bit and headed for the beach. There were a few "T"
> storms in the distance and had the water a bit disturbed. The
> normally calm beach had 4 to 5 foot breakers and we had a total
> blast!!! We spent two hours frolicking in the waves, body surfing and
> enjoying the wonderfully, warm water. There is an o ld abandoned WW 2
> tank on the next beach over and we walked over to it. We then flew
> back to Isle Grande airport in air conditioned, Commander comfort and
> boarded the cruse ship the next day. A big thank you to TCFG member
> Sergio Molina for rounding up his jacks and a mule for the retract
> test. Sergio operates a straight 500 on a 135 certificate and is a
> really nice guy. While the ship was leaving the port of St Lucia, we
> were all standing on the deck and lo and behold, a 500B (short nose)
> entered the patter at the airport and landed!! way cool. Jimmy is
> doing great, We got a tour of his new home in Old San Juan, It is a
> truly amazing project. It will be two years of work when complete in
> the spring and worth every day. I am sure you will be able to see it
> in an architectural magazine someday. His wife and kids are well,
> although his wife was suffering from some back pain. On another
> note. Saw t he 007 movie last night and there is a brief scene of a
> Commander , only in the background. Also, My bride was watching "Wife
> Swap" a couple of days ago and there was several really good shots of
> Turbine, dash 10 in the story. They episode was filmed in FL. Sue
> and I are leaving a a couple of hours to fly triple 2 to Idaho for "T"
> day. Then back to work delivering a 560E from Morris shop to FL. jb
>
> How was your Caribbean vacation? Give us the scoop! How's Jimmy doing?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 8:31 am
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: fuel vent heat check
>
> >
>
> Jim,
>
> How was your Caribbean vacation? Give us the scoop! How's Jimmy doing?
>
> /John
>
> yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> > HI KIDS. I might suggest that all of yall with vent heaters contact
> > John Towner. He has an "approved into known icing", (which the fuel
> > vent heaters are not) STCd fuel vent protector that installs in just
> a > few minutes, just in front of the vent and eliminates the need for
> the > troublesome electric units. jb
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com
> >
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Sent: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 7:39 am
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: fuel vent heat check
> >
> > *Dan,*
> > ** > *Thanks for the advice! My fuel vent heaters spliced into the
> air > speed indicator wires. Load shedding seems to be limited to
> pulling > the circuit breaker or turning off the switch, except the
> stall > warning horn, and it is hot wired.*
> > ** > *Moe*
> > *N680RR*
> > *Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award*
> > >
> > *From:* Dan Farmer >
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:05 AM
> > *To:* commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
> > *Subject:* Commander-List: fuel vent heat check
> >
> > This is so easy. Turn on the master switch, turn on the pitot/fuel >
> vent heat switch now take about 2 minutes then put your lips on the >
> vents like you were to suck a straw. Be sure to do this before you >
> suck on the pitot tube. Otherwise your lips will be burned so bad you
> > will never be able to feel the slight warmth from the vent. If you >
> really do this you deserve what you get. In all seriousness, my vents
> > are always quite warm to the touch in about 30 seconds after turning
> > on the heat switch. I seriously doubt that airframes of this vintage
> > and size have load shedding. In the 1960's I don't think Boeing or >
> Douglas was using auto load shedding. I think it was called a flight >
> engineer. CHECK ESSENTIAL!!!
> > > dan f
> >
> >
> > *
> 3D=============================================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> 3D=============================================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> 3D=============================================
> href='3D"
> >
> > *
>
>
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Commander engines available |
FYI to any MrRPM owners. A friend of mine has a pair of good IO-720's
for sale. They are the model used on the MRRPM conversions. These are
a fairly rare upstack engine, so they would be a darn good thing to have
on hand if you have them on your airplane.
Contact me off-list if you want more info.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few More Days... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. There are
some great gifts available when you make a qualifying Contribution and there's
plenty still available. Don't forget that its *your* Contribution that keeps
the computers running, the electricity turned on, and the computer room AC cooling!
If you look forward to reading your List email each day, won't you please take
a minute right now to make your personal Contribution?
Credit Card or Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Personal Check:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
A reason to give thanks for a decent job.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Over the Grand Canyon with no wings |
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11066141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution |
Today!
There are only three days left until the end of this year's List Fund Raiser.
Please take a minute to show your support as so many others have this year and
make sure YOUR name is on the forthcoming List of Contributors 2008!
Its quick and easy using the secure web site with a credit card or PayPal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by sending your personal check to:
Matronics Lists c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
(Please write your email address on the check!)
Thank you in advance for your support of these List services!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Listers Have Been Saying |
Wow! Many of the members making a List Support Contribution this year have been
using the Comments field to leave a personal message about the Lists. Thank
you! I have included a number of them below. Please read over a few and see
if you perhaps can echo some of the same sentiments regarding the value of the
Lists to you...
There is only a couple more days left for this year's List Fund Raiser and we're
still way behind previous years. If you've been waiting until the last minute
to show your support, Now is the Time! Please make your Contribution and pick
up a great gift at the same time!
By Credit Card or Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or By Personal Check:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
Thank you in advance!!
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forums Administrator
Here is some of the great feedback members have been including along with their
personal Contributions this year...
Over the years, the info I have received from the RV-List has
saved me thousands of dollars, and dozens of hours of time by
helping me avoid bad purchases, pointing me at vendors with
low prices and excellent support, and providing solutions to
the typical head scratchers that you run into.
Kevin H
Valuable service. Best List(s) on the Internet!
George A
Please accept this token not as an indicator of what
this list has been worth to me this past year.
Lew G
Great information and entertainment.
Tim V
Thanks again for another great year of service. This
project would be beyond me if it were not for the list.
Moreover, the friendships I have found are worth their
weight in GOLD!
Robert B
Great support you provide to all the subscribers!
Freddie H
Read it every day.
PF B
Thanks for your excellent management of the Matronics
Lists! Your services are head and shoulders above the
rest.
James M
Without the "List", there would be no Kolb "community".
Bill T
Thanks, Matt, for a great service! I've been monitoring
and using the lists since 1999.
Richard D
Thanks for such a terrific site and for all the work and
effort you put into it.
John R
A great service year after year.
John D
..another year of fantastic service.
Jerry B
This list is a great resource.
Arden A
Great list.
James M
Lists were a great help while building HRII N561FS.
John S
Great resources for both the beginner and experienced.
George R
Good service.
Gary G
The List is an invaluable resource!
William C
AeroElectric list is a great source of info and learning!
Janice J
Thank you, Matt for being there for us making it all happen
on the List for so many years - Great JOB!
Sam S
Thank you for providing a great venue. You definitely hit
the nail on the head with your solicitation asking if
readers look forward to receiving the email digests. I
certainly do and when I move from a dreamer to a builder, I
expect the anticipation will only increase.
Joe S
Thanks for a Perfect working list.
Hans-Peter R
Great List
Bryan K
Such a great selection of valuable forums!
David G
Nice job!
Walt E
Good resource...
Robert P
Thank you for another great year!
Scott S
I could not do this without you...
Robert D
I believe I've been a list member for over a decade
now. Thanks for the service!
Tim L
Great List
Hendrik W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | My belated Thanksgiving |
Folks,
I have not publicly stated my appreciation for all the blessings that we
receive in this country this year; perhaps for no good reason. I received
this piece from a friend and tennis buddy who mentioned that he thought I'd
appreciate it. He was right. It also prompted me to say something publicly
about it; even if it took a Frog (intended endearingly) to opine about it.
Many years ago, it must have been during the Carter years, before we had the
privilege of living here and getting to know the people that make up the
core of this nation, the American soldier was considered a weakling, a
maggot-infested, brainless, and doped coward with a loud mouth and no
backbone. It was an unjust image created, or allowed at least, by the
leadership over here that seems to have done everything to undermine their
morale and their image. Back then - once in a while casual conversation
would drift across the U.S. and its involvement in world affairs - the
failed rescue attempt of the Iran-hostages was dominating the international
news scene and the humiliation, hot on the heels of the Vietnam War, was the
lay-observer's only source to cement the image of the U.S. warrior. How sad.
I read the article below and realized, whether fact or fiction, the core of
those band of brothers (no sexism intended) who keep democracy and liberty
alive throughout the world was made up of people as described in this essay.
They are the people who are totally consumed by the calling at hand. They
are the people whom the enemy fears to the core. They are the people whom we
oftentimes overlook in our prayers and support. When they act, after only a
split-second of consideration, we sometimes condone people, whom we elected
to their offices, to subject them to the forensic and sterile scrutiny of
the law, sometimes stretching over months of analysis and psychological
evaluations by ring-heads armed with PhDs, to see if they were worthy of
being an American Soldier. In that attack many of them stand bravely, with
hardly any defense against such an onslaught; not because of the severity of
it but because from where and whom it comes. One of the pillars of strength
of these brave warriors is family and homeland and to endure bitter
onslaughts, which sometimes rival that of the enemy outside in their
severity and injury, must be unimaginably destructive.
That is why I want to give thanks to those men and women who are how this
article depicts them. Who are more focused, as a way of life, than a top
sportsman. Those brave warriors, better men than I, keep killer-threats out
of our homeland, so that I may sit down with friends and family and
celebrate Thanksgiving without concern for our safety. For their sakes I
write tonight.
On New Year's Eve, I plan to resolve that I will plead their case more
audibly and more intensely to minimize the assaults from within. I have no
doubt that they have the upper hand on those from the outside.
Nico
Subject: A NOS FRERES D'ARMES AMERICAINS
All,
A lot of people discount the French Army. I can tell you from personal
observation of them when I was in Afghanistan, the troops were motivated and
skilled, especially the one's with the patch that said "Lgion trangre".
Any problem they had was a matter of national will.
Here is an essay I copied from another site. I found it especially
appropriate for Thanksgiving. My rough translation of the title - "Our
American Brothers in Arms".
To all of you who are down-range, keep the faith.
Sincerely,
Jim Potts
Here is the original French article cab be read in French at URL:
http://omlt3-kdk3.over-blog.com/article-22935665.html
Here is (a) translation :
//// START ////
"We have shared our daily life with two US units for quite a while - they
are the first and fourth companies of a prestigious infantry battalion whose
name I will withhold for the sake of military secrecy. To the common man it
is a unit just like any other. But we live with them and got to know them,
and we henceforth know that we have the honor to live with one of the most
renowned units of the US Army - one that the movies brought to the public as
series showing "ordinary soldiers thrust into extraordinary events". Who are
they, those soldiers from abroad, how is their daily life, and what support
do they bring to the men of our OMLT every day? Few of them belong to the
Easy Company, the one the TV series focuses on. This one nowadays is named
Echo Company, and it has become the support company.
They have a terribly strong American accent - from our point of view the
language they speak is not even English. How many times did I have to write
down what I wanted to say rather than waste precious minutes trying various
pronunciations of a seemingly common word? Whatever state they are from, no
two accents are alike and they even admit that in some crisis situations
they have difficulties understanding each other.
Heavily built, fed at the earliest age with Gatorade, proteins and creatine
- they are all heads and shoulders taller than us and their muscles remind
us of Rambo. Our frames are amusingly skinny to them - we are wimps, even
the strongest of us - and because of that they often mistake us for Afghans.
Here we discover America as it is often depicted : their values are taken to
their paroxysm, often amplified by promiscuity lack of privacy and the
loneliness of this outpost in the middle of that Afghan valley. Honor,
motherland - everything here reminds of that : the American flag floating in
the wind above the outpost, just like the one on the post parcels. Even if
recruits often originate from the hearth of American cities and gang
territory, no one here has any goal other than to hold high and proud the
star spangled banner. Each man knows he can count on the support of a whole
people who provides them through the mail all that an American could miss in
such a remote front-line location : books, chewing gums, razorblades,
Gatorade, toothpaste etc. in such way that every man is aware of how much
the American people backs him in his difficult mission. And that is a first
shock to our preconceptions : the American soldier is no individualist. The
team, the group, the combat team are the focus of all his attention.
And they are impressive warriors! We have not come across bad ones, as
strange at it may seem to you when you know how critical French people can
be. Even if some of them are a bit on the heavy side, all of them provide us
everyday with lessons in infantry know-how. Beyond the wearing of a combat
kit that never seem to discomfort them (helmet strap, helmet, combat
goggles, rifles etc.) the long hours of watch at the outpost never seem to
annoy them in the slightest. On the one square meter wooden tower above the
perimeter wall they stand the five consecutive hours in full battle rattle
and night vision goggles on top, their sight unmoving in the directions of
likely danger. No distractions, no pauses, they are like statues nights and
days. At night, all movements are performed in the dark - only a handful of
subdued red lights indicate the occasional presence of a soldier on the
move. Same with the vehicles whose lights are covered - everything happens
in pitch dark even filling the fuel tanks with the Japy (JP-8) pump.
And combat? If you have seen Rambo you have seen it all - always coming to
the rescue when one of our teams gets in trouble, and always in the shortest
delay. That is one of their tricks : they switch from T-shirt and sandals to
combat ready in three minutes. Arriving in contact with the enemy, the way
they fight is simple and disconcerting : they just charge! They disembark
and assault in stride, they bomb first and ask questions later - which cuts
any pussyfooting short.
We seldom hear any harsh word, and from 5 AM onwards the camp chores are
performed in beautiful order and always with excellent spirit. A passing
American helicopter stops near a stranded vehicle just to check that
everything is alright; an American combat team will rush to support ours
before even knowing how dangerous the mission is - from what we have been
given to witness, the American soldier is a beautiful and worthy heir to
those who liberated France and Europe.
To those who bestow us with the honor of sharing their combat outposts and
who everyday give proof of their military excellence, to those who pay the
daily tribute of America's army's deployment on Afghan soil, to those we
owned this article, ourselves hoping that we will always remain worthy of
them and to always continue hearing them say that we are all the same band
of brothers".
//// END ////
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My belated Thanksgiving |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
AND AMEN.=C2-=C2- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 6:23 pm
Subject: Commander-List: My belated Thanksgiving
Folks,
I have not publicly stated my appreciation for all the blessings that we
eceive in this country this year; perhaps for no good reason. I received
his piece from a friend and tennis buddy who mentioned that he thought I'd
ppreciate it. He was right. It also prompted me to say something publicly
bout it; even if it took a Frog (intended endearingly) to opine about it.
Many years ago, it must have been during the Carter years, before we had the
rivilege of living here and getting to know the people that make up the
ore of this nation, the American soldier was considered a weakling, a
aggot-infested, brainless, and doped coward with a loud mouth and no
ackbone. It was an unjust image created, or allowed at least, by the
eadership over here that seems to have done everything to undermine their
orale and their image. Back then - once in a while casual conversation
ould drift across the U.S. and its involvement in world affairs - the
ailed rescue attempt of the Iran-hostages was dominating the international
ews scene and the humiliation, hot on the heels of the Vietnam War, was the
ay-observer's only source to cement the image of the U.S. warrior. How sad.
read the article below and realized, whether f
act or fiction, the core of
hose band of brothers (no sexism intended) who keep democracy and liberty
live throughout the world was made up of people as described in this essay.
hey are the people who are totally consumed by the calling at hand. They
re the people whom the enemy fears to the core. They are the people whom we
ftentimes overlook in our prayers and support. When they act, after only a
plit-second of consideration, we sometimes condone people, whom we elected
o their offices, to subject them to the forensic and sterile scrutiny of
he law, sometimes stretching over months of analysis and psychological
valuations by ring-heads armed with PhD=99s, to see if they were worth
y of
eing an American Soldier. In that attack many of them stand bravely, with
ardly any defense against such an onslaught; not because of the severity of
t but because from where and whom it comes. One of the pillars of strength
f these brave warriors is family and homeland and to endure bitter
nslaughts, which sometimes rival that of the enemy outside in their
everity and injury, must be unimaginably destructive.
That is why I want to give thanks to those men and women who are how this
rticle depicts them. Who are more focused, as a way of life, than a top
portsman. Those brave warriors, better men than I, keep killer-threats out
f our homeland, so that I may sit down with friends and family and
elebrate Thanksgiving without concern for our safety. For their sakes I
rite tonight.
On New Year's Eve, I=2
0plan to resolve that I will plead their case more
udibly and more intensely to minimize the assaults from within. I have no
oubt that they have the upper hand on those from the outside.
Nico
ubject: A NOS FRERES D'ARMES AMERICAINS
All,
A lot of people discount the French Army. I can tell you from personal
bservation of them when I was in Afghanistan, the troops were motivated and
killed, especially the one's with the patch that said "L=C3=A9gion =C3=A9tra
ng=C3=A8re".
ny problem they had was a matter of national will.
Here is an essay I copied from another site. I found it especially
ppropriate for Thanksgiving. My rough translation of the title - "Our
merican Brothers in Arms".
To all of you who are down-range, keep the faith.
Sincerely,
Jim Potts
Here is the original French article cab be read in French at URL:
http://omlt3-kdk3.over-blog.com/article-22935665.html
Here is (a) translation :
//// START ////
"We have shared our daily life with two US units for quite a while - they
re the first and fourth companies of a prestigious infantry battalion whose
ame I will withhold for the sake of military secrecy. To the common man it
s a unit just like any other. But we live with them and got to know them,
nd we henceforth know that we have the honor to live with one of the most
enowned units of the US Army - one that the movies brought to the public as
eries showing "ordinary soldiers thrust into extraordinary events". Who are
hey, those soldiers from abroad, how is their daily l
ife, and what support
o they bring to the men of our OMLT every day? Few of them belong to the
asy Company, the one the TV series focuses on. This one nowadays is named
cho Company, and it has become the support company.
They have a terribly strong American accent - from our point of view the
anguage they speak is not even English. How many times did I have to write
own what I wanted to say rather than waste precious minutes trying various
ronunciations of a seemingly common word? Whatever state they are from, no
wo accents are alike and they even admit that in some crisis situations
hey have difficulties understanding each other.
Heavily built, fed at the earliest age with Gatorade, proteins and creatine
they are all heads and shoulders taller than us and their muscles remind
s of Rambo. Our frames are amusingly skinny to them - we are wimps, even
he strongest of us - and because of that they often mistake us for Afghans.
Here we discover America as it is often depicted : their values are taken to
heir paroxysm, often amplified by promiscuity lack of privacy and the
oneliness of this outpost in the middle of that Afghan valley. Honor,
otherland - everything here reminds of that : the American flag floating in
he wind above the outpost, just like the one on the post parcels. Even if
ecruits often originate from the hearth of American cities and gang
erritory, no one here has any goal other than to hold high and proud the
tar spangled banner. Each man knows he can count on=2
0the support of a whole
eople who provides them through the mail all that an American could miss in
uch a remote front-line location : books, chewing gums, razorblades,
atorade, toothpaste etc. in such way that every man is aware of how much
he American people backs him in his difficult mission. And that is a first
hock to our preconceptions : the American soldier is no individualist. The
eam, the group, the combat team are the focus of all his attention.
And they are impressive warriors! We have not come across bad ones, as
trange at it may seem to you when you know how critical French people can
e. Even if some of them are a bit on the heavy side, all of them provide us
veryday with lessons in infantry know-how. Beyond the wearing of a combat
it that never seem to discomfort them (helmet strap, helmet, combat
oggles, rifles etc.) the long hours of watch at the outpost never seem to
nnoy them in the slightest. On the one square meter wooden tower above the
erimeter wall they stand the five consecutive hours in full battle rattle
nd night vision goggles on top, their sight unmoving in the directions of
ikely danger. No distractions, no pauses, they are like statues nights and
ays. At night, all movements are performed in the dark - only a handful of
ubdued red lights indicate the occasional presence of a soldier on the
ove. Same with the vehicles whose lights are covered - everything happens
n pitch dark even filling the fuel tanks with the Japy (JP-8) pump.
And combat? If you h
ave seen Rambo you have seen it all - always coming to
he rescue when one of our teams gets in trouble, and always in the shortest
elay. That is one of their tricks : they switch from T-shirt and sandals to
ombat ready in three minutes. Arriving in contact with the enemy, the way
hey fight is simple and disconcerting : they just charge! They disembark
nd assault in stride, they bomb first and ask questions later - which cuts
ny pussyfooting short.
We seldom hear any harsh word, and from 5 AM onwards the camp chores are
erformed in beautiful order and always with excellent spirit. A passing
merican helicopter stops near a stranded vehicle just to check that
verything is alright; an American combat team will rush to support ours
efore even knowing how dangerous the mission is - from what we have been
iven to witness, the American soldier is a beautiful and worthy heir to
hose who liberated France and Europe.
To those who bestow us with the honor of sharing their combat outposts and
ho everyday give proof of their military excellence, to those who pay the
aily tribute of America's army's deployment on Afghan soil, to those we
wned this article, ourselves hoping that we will always remain worthy of
hem and to always continue hearing them say that we are all the same band
f brothers".
//// END ////
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists=2
0This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI KIDS.
I just got back from a couple of nice flights in "triple 2, Jim & Sue"(our 680E).?
Left Tuesday from 1W1, Camas Washington,?(the home drome) to S67 Nampa Idaho,
my home town.? Sue and I and our two terriers, Pratt & Whitney, left about
noon.? Climbed to 9.5 and set the power at 30.-X2500 for a true A/S of about
177 kts.? Ground speed was 179-181.? Nice flight, clear and a million, smoooooothe
air.? Took 1:32.?? Came back today at 6.5, then 10.5, then down to 4.5.?
I set a record of the lowest sustained ground speed ever at cruse power!!!!? 32kts(at)10.5,
32X2550.? Was cruising about as fast a a Cherokee and burning about
the same fuel as a DC-3!!? Bouncy, touch a cloud and you got instant ice.? We
stayed VFR and came up the Columbia River gorge at 2.5.? Very rough.? I set 22.5X2550
for an A/S of only 135 indicated for the turbulence.? GS 109kts.? Landed
at home in the rain.? All in all a good trip, but The going was sure better
than the coming!!? It takes about 7.5 hours to driv
e the same trip, so it was still a good thing.? Hope everybody had a great "T"
day,?remembering that the pilgrims were celebrating and thanking GOD for their
blessings.? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means three things:..
1) Today I am now officially 45 years old...
2) It marks that last "official" day of this year's List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year!
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and
no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support
their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way
to keep the List bills paid.
I will be posting the List of Contributors next week so make sure your name is
on it!
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly
appreciated.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! |
Matt, a $100.00 will be in the mail next week as soon as I get a bank money
order so you don't have to deal with my funny colored (US spelling) money.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:07 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser!
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Its November 30th and that means three things:..
>
> 1) Today I am now officially 45 years old...
>
> 2) It marks that last "official" day of this year's List Fund
> Raiser!
>
> 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year!
>
> If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising,
> no-spam, and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a
> Contribution today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your
> $20 or $30 goes a long way to keep the List bills paid.
>
> I will be posting the List of Contributors next week so make sure your
> name is on it!
>
> Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It
> is greatly appreciated.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List and Forum Administrator
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My belated Thanksgiving |
I heartily second the AMEN.
Also, this question probably seems terribly naive coming from someone
who has been flying for almost 30 years, however please keep in mind
that I lived in Southern California, and 99% of my long distance flying
was done in the warmer months (during the racing season), and now I
reside in cold country with no hangar. With the geared engines, at what
temperature is it advisable to do an engine pre-heat before starting
them?
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: My belated Thanksgiving
AND AMEN. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 6:23 pm
Subject: Commander-List: My belated Thanksgiving
Folks,
I have not publicly stated my appreciation for all the blessings that we
receive in this country this year; perhaps for no good reason. I
received
this piece from a friend and tennis buddy who mentioned that he thought
I'd
appreciate it. He was right. It also prompted me to say something
publicly
about it; even if it took a Frog (intended endearingly) to opine about
it.
Many years ago, it must have been during the Carter years, before we had
the
privilege of living here and getting to know the people that make up the
core of this nation, the American soldier was considered a weakling, a
maggot-infested, brainless, and doped coward with a loud mouth and no
backbone. It was an unjust image created, or allowed at least, by the
leadership over here that seems to have done everything to undermine
their
morale and their image. Back then - once in a while casual conversation
would drift across the U.S
. and its involvement in world affairs - the
failed rescue attempt of the Iran-hostages was dominating the
international
news scene and the humiliation, hot on the heels of the Vietnam War, was
the
lay-observer's only source to cement the image of the U.S. warrior. How
sad.
I read the article below and realized, whether fact or fiction, the core
of
those band of brothers (no sexism intended) who keep democracy and
liberty
alive throughout the world was made up of people as described in this
essay.
They are the people who are totally consumed by the calling at hand.
They
are the people whom the enemy fears to the core. They are the people
whom we
oftentimes overlook in our prayers and support. When they act, after
only a
split-second of consideration, we sometimes condone people, whom we
elected
to their offices, to subject them to the forensic and sterile scrutiny
of
the law, sometimes stretching over months of analysis and psychological
evaluations by ring-heads armed with PhD=99s, to see if they were
worthy of
being an American Soldier. In that attack many of them stand bravely,
with
hardly any defense against such an onslaught; not because of the
severity of
it but because from where and whom it comes. One of the pillars of
strength
of these brave warriors is family and homeland and to endure bitter
onslaughts, which sometimes rival that of the enemy outside in their
severity and injury, must be unimaginably destructive.
That is why
I want to give thanks to those men and women who are how this
article depicts them. Who are more focused, as a way of life, than a top
sportsman. Those brave warriors, better men than I, keep killer-threats
out
of our homeland, so that I may sit down with friends and family and
celebrate Thanksgiving without concern for our safety. For their sakes I
write tonight.
On New Year's Eve, I plan to resolve that I will plead their case more
audibly and more intensely to minimize the assaults from within. I have
no
doubt that they have the upper hand on those from the outside.
Nico
Subject: A NOS FRERES D'ARMES AMERICAINS
All,
A lot of people discount the French Army. I can tell you from personal
observation of them when I was in Afghanistan, the troops were motivated
and
skilled, especially the one's with the patch that said "L=C3=A9gion
=C3=A9trang=C3=A8re".
Any problem they had was a matter of national will.
Here is an essay I copied from another site. I found it especially
appropriate for Thanksgiving. My rough translation of the title - "Our
American Brothers in Arms".
To all of you who are down-range, keep the faith.
Sincerely,
Jim Potts
Here is the original French article cab be read in French at URL:
http://omlt3-kdk3.over-blog.com/article-22935665.html
Here is (a) translation :
//// START ////
"We have shared our daily life with two US units for quite a while -
they
are the first and fourth companies of a prestigious infantry battalion
whose
name I will withhold for the sake of military secrecy. To the common man
it
is a unit just like any other. But we live with them and got to know
them,
and we henceforth know that we have the honor to live with one of the
most
renowned units of the US Army - one that the movies brought to the
public as
series showing "ordinary soldiers thrust into extraordinary events". Who
are
they, those soldiers from abroad, how is their daily life, and what
support
do they bring to the men of our OMLT every day? Few of them belong to
the
Easy Company, the one the TV series focuses on. This one nowadays is
named
Echo Company, and it has become the support company.
They have a terribly strong American accent - from our point of view the
language they speak is not even English. How many times did I have to
write
down what I wanted to say rather than waste precious minutes trying
various
pronunciations of a seemingly common word? Whatever state they are from,
no
two accents are alike and they even admit that in some crisis situations
they have difficulties understanding each other.
Heavily built, fed at the earliest age with Gatorade, proteins and
creatine
- they are all heads and shoulders taller than us and their muscles
remind
us of Rambo. Our frames are amusingly skinny to them - we ar
e wimps, even
the strongest of us - and because of that they often mistake us for
Afghans.
Here we discover America as it is often depicted : their values are
taken to
their paroxysm, often amplified by promiscuity lack of privacy and the
loneliness of this outpost in the middle of that Afghan valley. Honor,
motherland - everything here reminds of that : the American flag
floating in
the wind above the outpost, just like the one on the post parcels. Even
if
recruits often originate from the hearth of American cities and gang
territory, no one here has any goal other than to hold high and proud
the
star spangled banner. Each man knows he can count on the support of a
whole
people who provides them through the mail all that an American could
miss in
such a remote front-line location : books, chewing gums, razorblades,
Gatorade, toothpaste etc. in such way that every man is aware of how
much
the American people backs him in his difficult mission. And that is a
first
shock to our preconceptions : the American soldier is no individualist.
The
team, the group, the combat team are the focus of all his attention.
And they are impressive warriors! We have not come across bad ones, as
strange at it may seem to you when you know how critical French people
can
be. Even if some of them are a bit on the heavy side, all of them
provide us
everyday with lessons in infantry know-how. Beyond the wearing of a
combat
kit that never seem to d
iscomfort them (helmet strap, helmet, combat
goggles, rifles etc.) the long hours of watch at the outpost never seem
to
annoy them in the slightest. On the one square meter wooden tower above
the
perimeter wall they stand the five consecutive hours in full battle
rattle
and night vision goggles on top, their sight unmoving in the directions
of
likely danger. No distractions, no pauses, they are like statues nights
and
days. At night, all movements are performed in the dark - only a handful
of
subdued red lights indicate the occasional presence of a soldier on the
move. Same with the vehicles whose lights are covered - everything
happens
in pitch dark even filling the fuel tanks with the Japy (JP-8) pump.
And combat? If you have seen Rambo you have seen it all - always coming
to
the rescue when one of our teams gets in trouble, and always in the
shortest
delay. That is one of their tricks : they switch from T-shirt and
sandals to
combat ready in three minutes. Arriving in contact with the enemy, the
way
they fight is simple and disconcerting : they just charge! They
disembark
and assault in stride, they bomb first and ask questions later - which
cuts
any pussyfooting short.
We seldom hear any harsh word, and from 5 AM onwards the camp chores are
performed in beautiful order and always with excellent spirit. A passing
American helicopter stops near a stranded vehicle just to check that
everything is alright; an American combat team will rush
to support ours
before even knowing how dangerous the mission is - from what we have
been
given to witness, the American soldier is a beautiful and worthy heir to
those who liberated France and Europe.
To those who bestow us with the honor of sharing their combat outposts
and
who everyday give proof of their military excellence, to those who pay
the
daily tribute of America's army's deployment on Afghan soil, to those we
owned this article, ourselves hoping that we will always remain worthy
of
them and to always continue hearing them say that we are all the same
band
of brothers".
//// END ////
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| Subject: | Re: My belated Thanksgiving |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI MOE (GPA holder)
About 20F or so.=C2- I have started them in MUCH colder weather with no he
at , but it is not the best thing for them.=C2- Keep the RPM as low as pra
ctical for 30-40 seconds to make certain the blowers have oil, then smoothly
advance the throttles to about 12-1500 RPM.=C2- Keep the cowl flaps close
d (you should be parking with them closed anyway) and open them on climb out
only as required.=C2- jb
With the geared engines, at what temperature is it advisable to do=C2-an e
ngine=C2-pre-heat before starting them?
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 7:24 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: My belated Thanksgiving
I heartily second the AMEN.
=C2-
Also, this question probably seems terribly naive coming from someone who ha
s been flying for almost 30 years, however please keep in mind that I lived
in Southern California, and 99% of my long distance flying was done in the w
armer months (during the racing season), and now I reside=C2-in cold count
ry with no hangar.=C2- With the geared engines, at what temperature is it
advisable to do=C2-an engine=C2-pre-heat before starting them?
=C2-
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
=C2-
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: My belated Thanksgiving
AND AMEN.=C2-=C2- jb
-----Original Message-----
From:20nico css
Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 6:23 pm
Subject: Commander-List: My belated Thanksgiving
Folks,
I have not publicly stated my appreciation for all the blessings that we
eceive in this country this year; perhaps for no good reason. I received
his piece from a friend and tennis buddy who mentioned that he thought I'd
ppreciate it. He was right. It also prompted me to say something publicly
bout it; even if it took a Frog (intended endearingly) to opine about it.
Many years ago, it must have been during the Carter years, before we had the
rivilege of living here and getting to know the people that make up the
ore of this nation, the American soldier was considered a weakling, a
aggot-infested, brainless, and doped coward with a loud mouth and no
ackbone. It was an unjust image created, or allowed at least, by the
eadership over here that seems to have done everything to undermine their
orale and their image. Back then - once in a while casual conversation
ould drift across the U.S
and its involvement in world affairs - the
ailed rescue attempt of the Iran-hostages was dominating the international
ews scene and the humiliation, hot on the heels of the Vietnam War, was the
ay-observer's only source to cement the image of the U.S. warrior. How sad.
read the article below and realized, whether fact or fiction, the core of
hose band of brothers (n
o sexism intended) who keep democracy and liberty
live throughout the world was made up of people as described in this essay.
hey are the people who are totally consumed by the calling at hand. They
re the people whom the enemy fears to the core. They are the people whom we
ftentimes overlook in our prayers and support. When they act, after only a
plit-second of consideration, we sometimes condone people, whom we elected
o their offices, to subject them to the forensic and sterile scrutiny of
he law, sometimes stretching over months of analysis and psychological
valuations by ring-heads armed with PhD=99s, to see if they were worth
y of
eing an American Soldier. In that attack many of them stand bravely, with
ardly any defense against such an onslaught; not because of the severity of
t but because from where and whom it comes. One of the pillars of strength
f these brave warriors is family and homeland and to endure bitter
nslaughts, which sometimes rival that of the enemy outside in their
everity and injury, must be unimaginably destructive.
That is why
want to give thanks to those men and women who are how this
rticle depicts them. Who are more focused, as a way of life, than a top
portsman. Those brave warriors, better men than I, keep killer-threats out
f our homeland, so that I may sit down with friends and family and
elebrate Thanksgiving without concern for our safety. For their sakes I
rite tonight.
On New Year's Eve, I plan to resolve that I will plead their case more=0
Dudibly and more intensely to minimize the assaults from within. I have no
oubt that they have the upper hand on those from the outside.
Nico
ubject: A NOS FRERES D'ARMES AMERICAINS
All,
A lot of people discount the French Army. I can tell you from personal
bservation of them when I was in Afghanistan, the troops were motivated and
killed, especially the one's with the patch that said "L=C3=A9gion =C3=A9tra
ng=C3=A8re".
ny problem they had was a matter of national will.
Here is an essay I copied from another site. I found it especially
ppropriate for Thanksgiving. My rough translation of the title - "Our
merican Brothers in Arms".
To all of you who are down-range, keep the faith.
Sincerely,
Jim Potts
Here is the original French article cab be read in French at URL:
http://omlt3-kdk3.over-blog.com/article-22935665.html
Here is (a) translation :
//// START ////
"We have shared our daily life with two US units for quite a while - they
re the first and fourth companies of a prestigious infantry battalion whose
ame I will withhold for the sake of military secrecy. To the common man it
s a unit just like any other. But we live with them and got to know them,
nd we henceforth know that we have the honor to live with one of the most
enowned units of the US Army - one that the movies brought to the public as
eries showing "ordinary soldiers thrust into extraordinary events". Who are
hey, those soldiers from abroad, how is their daily life, and what support
o they bring to the men o
f our OMLT every day? Few of them belong to the
asy Company, the one the TV series focuses on. This one nowadays is named
cho Company, and it has become the support company.
They have a terribly strong American accent - from our point of view the
anguage they speak is not even English. How many times did I have to write
own what I wanted to say rather than waste precious minutes trying various
ronunciations of a seemingly common word? Whatever state they are from, no
wo accents are alike and they even admit that in some crisis situations
hey have difficulties understanding each other.
Heavily built, fed at the earliest age with Gatorade, proteins and creatine
they are all heads and shoulders taller than us and their muscles remind
s of Rambo. Our frames are amusingly skinny to them - we ar
wimps, even
he strongest of us - and because of that they often mistake us for Afghans.
Here we discover America as it is often depicted : their values are taken to
heir paroxysm, often amplified by promiscuity lack of privacy and the
oneliness of this outpost in the middle of that Afghan valley. Honor,
otherland - everything here reminds of that : the American flag floating in
he wind above the outpost, just like the one on the post parcels. Even if
ecruits often originate from the hearth of American cities and gang
erritory, no one here has any goal other than to hold high and proud the
tar spangled banner. Each man knows he can count on the support of a whole
eople who provides them=2
0through the mail all that an American could miss in
uch a remote front-line location : books, chewing gums, razorblades,
atorade, toothpaste etc. in such way that every man is aware of how much
he American people backs him in his difficult mission. And that is a first
hock to our preconceptions : the American soldier is no individualist. The
eam, the group, the combat team are the focus of all his attention.
And they are impressive warriors! We have not come across bad ones, as
trange at it may seem to you when you know how critical French people can
e. Even if some of them are a bit on the heavy side, all of them provide us
veryday with lessons in infantry know-how. Beyond the wearing of a combat
it that never seem to d
scomfort them (helmet strap, helmet, combat
oggles, rifles etc.) the long hours of watch at the outpost never seem to
nnoy them in the slightest. On the one square meter wooden tower above the
erimeter wall they stand the five consecutive hours in full battle rattle
nd night vision goggles on top, their sight unmoving in the directions of
ikely danger. No distractions, no pauses, they are like statues nights and
ays. At night, all movements are performed in the dark - only a handful of
ubdued red lights indicate the occasional presence of a soldier on the
ove. Same with the vehicles whose lights are covered - everything happens
n pitch dark even filling the fuel tanks with the Japy (JP-8) pump.
And combat? If you have seen Rambo you have seen it all - always20coming to
he rescue when one of our teams gets in trouble, and always in the shortest
elay. That is one of their tricks : they switch from T-shirt and sandals to
ombat ready in three minutes. Arriving in contact with the enemy, the way
hey fight is simple and disconcerting : they just charge! They disembark
nd assault in stride, they bomb first and ask questions later - which cuts
ny pussyfooting short.
We seldom hear any harsh word, and from 5 AM onwards the camp chores are
erformed in beautiful order and always with excellent spirit. A passing
merican helicopter stops near a stranded vehicle just to check that
verything is alright; an American combat team will rush
to support ours
efore even knowing how dangerous the mission is - from what we have been
iven to witness, the American soldier is a beautiful and worthy heir to
hose who liberated France and Europe.
To those who bestow us with the honor of sharing their combat outposts and
ho everyday give proof of their military excellence, to those who pay the
aily tribute of America's army's deployment on Afghan soil, to those we
wned this article, ourselves hoping that we will always remain worthy of
hem and to always continue hearing them say that we are all the same band
f brothers".
//// END ////
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lloyd SILVERMAN" <lloydsss(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: Fw: Pilot talk. |
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: lloyd silverman <LLOYDSSS11(at)msn.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:05:40 -0500
Subject: Fw: Pilot talk.
----- Original Message -----
From: lloyd silverman<mailto:LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
Cc: commander-list ; MARIO
PINELLA ; PRAC01 bill
ortiz ; ROBERT
KLEIN ; steve
zitrin ; STEW WESTCHESTER
SIGN ; WALTER LEIGH
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:00 PM
Subject: Fw: Pilot talk.
----- Original Message -----
From: scott<mailto:sboyn(at)frontiernet.net>
Cc: edmege(at)optonline.net
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:27 PM
Subject: Fwd: Pilot talk.
c190guy(at)yahoo.com,
turbohart(at)yahoo.com,
thauser(at)madbbs.com,
AdnilH99(at)aol.com,
whiggins(at)satx.rr.com,
delcar(at)zoominternet.net,
PrintHut(at)aol.com,
clarekeiser(at)sbcglobal.net,
MonicaBobb24(at)aol.com,
R5ThRCT(at)aol.com,
mpliberto(at)cableone.net,
markhambob(at)juno.com,
MCCARDELLJE(at)aol.com,
jmoertel(at)usatek.net,
f.murphy(at)harrison.lib.ms.us,
rneal27(at)cableone.net,
MANassr(at)aol.com,
neutzling1(at)sbcglobal.net,
epetrovay(at)consultant.com,
stitches1(at)alltel.net,
R.portzer(at)cox.net,
province(at)cableone.net,
robertsdl(at)mindspring.com,
roup66(at)hotmail.com,
jeseward(at)cableone.net,
skmetta(at)yahoo.com,
Mstallone(at)cableone.net,
BTgk2000(at)aol.com,
ottoet1(at)windstream.net,
ovthames(at)bellsouth.net,
Tvarble1(at)bellsouth.net,
caw4(at)Cableone.net,
marilynwest55(at)hotmail.com,
wheeles30(at)earthlink.net,
fjw(at)datasync.com,
jswohio(at)woh.rr.com
Subject: Fwd: Pilot talk.
Some new stuff.. Most pretty witty .
nick
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW
From: Howard Farr <howfarrout(at)sbcglobal.net<mailto:howfarrout(at)sbcglobal.net>>
Date: November 30, 2008 11:27:46 PM EST
To: "Scott J. Farr" >
Subject: Pilot talk.
Reply-To: howfarrout(at)sbcglobal.net
I hope those of you who fly in the back of the airplane
aware that pilots have a sense of humor.
Well, they aren't all new... and probably not all
real.....but some are.
------------------------
British Airways flight asks for push back
clearance from terminal.
Control Tower replies: 'And where is the world's
most experienced airline going today without filing a flight plan?'
-----------------------
ATC: 'Alitalia 345 continue taxi holding
position 26 South via Tango check for workers along taxiway.'
Ali 345: 'Taxi 26 Left a via Tango. Workers
checked - all are working'
-----------------------
ARN851: 'Halifax Terminal, Nova 851 with you out
of 13,000 for 10,000, requesting runway 15.'
Halifax Terminal (female): 'Nova 851 Halifax,
the last time I gave a pilot what he wanted I was on penicillin for
three weeks. Expect runway 06.'
--------------------------
ACA1147: ' Moncton , Air Canada 1147, can you
get the winds from 167 above us?'
CZQM: 'As soon as I get a chance, I will.' (some
time passes with continuous radio chatter)
ACA1147: ' Moncton , 1147, what are his winds up there?'
CZQM: 'Standby for that, please' (more radio chatter)
ACA1147: ' Moncton , can you ask company 167 for
his winds?'
CZQM: 'Ok, 1147 and 167, I have a little too
much to do for that sort of thing right now. I'll leave it up to you
guys to go over to company frequency and pass winds.'
-----------------------
Lost student pilot: 'Unknown airport with Cessna
150 circling overhead, identify yourself.'
-----------------------
Tower: Have you got enough fuel or not?
Pilot: Yes.
Tower: Yes what??
Pilot: Yes, SIR
---------------------------
ATC: 'Cessna G-ARER What are your intentions? '
Cessna: 'To get my Commercial Pilots Licence and
Instrument Rating.'
ATC: 'I meant in the next five minutes not years.'
--------------------------
Controller: AF123, say call sign of your w ingman.
Pilot: Uh... approach, we're a single ship.
Controller: oh, oh sh$t! You have traffic!
---------------------
O'Hare Approach: USA212, cleared ILS runway 32L
approach, maintain 250 knots.
USA212: Roger approach, how long do you need me
to maintain that speed?
O'Hare Approach: All the way to the gate if you can.
USA212: Ah, OK, but you better warn ground control.
----------------------
ATC: Pan Am 1, descend to 3,000 ft on QNH 1019.
Pan AM 1: Could you give that to me in inches?
ATC: Pan Am 1, descend to 36,000 inches on QNH 1019
------------------------
Cessna 152: 'Flight Level Three Thousand, Seven Hundred'
Controller: 'Roger, contact Houston Space Center '
--------------------------
Beech Baron: Uh, ATC, verify you want me to taxi
in front of the 747.
ATC: Yeah, it's OK. He's not hungry.
-------------------------
Student Pilot: 'I ' m lost; I'm over a big lake
and heading toward the big E.'
Controller: 'Make several 90 degree turns so I
can identify you on radar.'
(short pause)...
Controller: 'Okay then. That big lake is the
Atlantic Ocean . Suggest you turn to the big W immediately ..'
--------------------
Pilot: 'Approach, Acme Flt 202, with you at
12,000' and 40 DME.'
Approach: 'Acme 202, cross 30 DME at and maintain 8000'.'
Pilot: 'Approach, 202's unable that descent rate.'
Approach: 'What's the matter 202? Don't you
have speed brakes?'
Pilot: 'Yup. But they're for my mistakes. Not yours.'
-----------------------------
Tower: '...and for your information, you were
slightly to the left of the centerline on that approach.'
Speedbird: 'That's correct; and, my First
Officer was slightly to the right'
-------------------------------
A deer is on the runway... so...
Tower: Cessna XXX cleared for take-off.
Student: 'What should I do? What shou ld I do?'
Inst: 'What do you think you should do?'
(think-think-think)
Std: 'Maybe if I taxi toward him it'll scare him away.'
Inst: 'That's a good idea.' (Taxi toward deer,
but deer is macho, and holds position.)
Tower: Cessna XXX cleared for take-off, runway NN.
Std: 'What should I do? What should I do?'
Inst: 'What do you think you should do?'
(think-think-think)
Std: 'Maybe I should tell the tower.'
Inst: 'That's a good idea.'
Std: Cessna XXX, uh, there's a deer down here on
the runway (long pause)
Tower: Roger XXX, hold your position. Deer on
runawy NN cleared for immediate departure.
(Two seconds, and then -- I presume by
coincidence -- the deer bolts from the runway, and runs back into the
woods.)
Tower: Cessna XXX cleared for departure, runway
NN.Caution wake turbulence, departing deer.
It had to be tough keeping that Cessna rolling
straight for take-off.
-----------------------
Controller: 'USA353 (sic) contact Cleveland
Center 135.60. (pause)
Controller: 'USA353 contact Cleveland Center
135.60!' (pause)
Controller: 'USA353 you're just like my wife you
never listen!'
Pilot: 'Center, this is USA553, maybe if you
called her by the right name you'd get a better response!'
--------------------
Pilot: 'Approach, Federated 303 with you at
8000' for vectors ILS, full stop.
Approach: 'Unable Federated 303. The ILS is out
of service.'
Pilot: 'We'll take the VOR then.'
Approach: 'Sir, the VOR's in alarm right now. Standby.'
Pilot: 'OK, guess it'll have to be the ADF then.'
Approach: '303, unable the ADF right now for
traffic saturation.'
Pilot: 'OK, approach. State my intentions.'
-----------------------
BB: 'Barnburner 123, Request 8300 feet.'
Bay Approach: 'Barnburner 123, say reason for
requested altitude.'
BB: 'Because the last 2 times I've been at 8500,
I've nearly been run over by so me bozo at 8500 feet going the wrong
way!'
Bay: 'That's a good reason. 8300 approved.'
------------------------------
Pilot: Oakland Ground, Cessna 1234 at Sierra
Academy . Taxi, Destination Stockton
Ground: Cessna 1234, Taxi Approved, report
leaving the airport
------------------------------------
Controller: 'FAR1234 confirm your type of
aircraft. Are you an Airbus 330 or 340?'
Pilot: 'A340 of course!'
Controller: 'Then would you mind switching on
the two other engines and give me 1000 feet per minute, please?'
--------------------------
Tower (in Stuttgart ): 'Lufthansa 5680, reduce
to 170 knots.'
Pilot: 'This is here like Frankfurt . There is
also only 210 and 170 knots...But we are flexible.'
Tower: 'We too. Reduce to 173 knots.'
---------------------------
Tower: 'Delta Zulu Romeo, turn r ight now and
report your heading.'
Pilot: 'Wilco. 341, 342, 343, 344, 345...'
---------------------------------
Pilot Trainee: 'Tower, please speak slowly, I am
a baby in English and lonely in the cockpit'
---------------------------------
M?nchen II Tower: 'LH 8610 cleared for take-off.'
Pilot (LH 8610): 'But we are not even landed.'
Tower: Yes, who is then standing at 26 south ? '
Pilot (LH 8801): 'LH 8801.'
Tower: 'OK, then you are cleared for take-off.'
--------------------------------
Tower: 'Aircraft on final, go around, there's an
aircraft on the runway!'
Pilot Trainee: 'Roger' (pilot continues approach)
Tower: 'Aircraft, I said GO AROUND!!!'!
Pilot Trainee: 'Roger'
The trainee doesn't react, lands the aircraft on
the numbers, rolls to a twin standing in the middle of the runway,
goes around the twin and continues to the taxiway.
------------------------
Tower: ' Mission 123, do you have problems?'
Pilot: 'I t hi nk, I have lost my compass.'
Tower: 'Judging the way you are flying, you lost
the whole instrument panel!'
-----------------------
Controller: 'CRX600, are you on course to SUL?'
Pilot: 'More or less.'
Controller: 'So proceed a little bit more to SUL.'
----------------------------
Pilot: 'Good morning, Frankfurt ground, KLM 242
request start up and push back, please.'
Tower: 'KLM 242 expect start up in two hours.'
Pilot: 'Please confirm: two hours delay?'
Tower: 'Affirmative.'
Pilot: 'In that case, cancel the good morning!'
--
LLOYD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: Great Story
A nice presentation of the Wrong Way Corrigan story.
Another one from the Greatest Generation!
You will love the music.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttIEtl7j7k0>
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=ttIEtl7j7k0
You will also enjoy the Dame Vera Lynn videos that
show up after the Corrigan one. They Knighted Vera Lynn after
the war hence her title Dame Vera Lynn.
Jim Addington
N444BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nancy Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com> |
Date: Mon=2C 1 Dec 2008 21:20:05 -0600From: jtaddington(at)verizon.netSubject:
Commander-List: To: jtaddington(at)verizon.net
Subject: Great Story
A nice presentation of the Wrong Way Corrigan story. Another one from the G
reatest Generation!You will love the music. http://www.youtube.com:80/wat
ch?v=ttIEtl7j7k0 You will also enjoy the Dame Vera Lynn videos thatshow
up after the Corrigan one. They Knighted Vera Lynn after the war hence her
title Dame Vera Lynn.
Jim Addington
N444BDTHIS IS REALLY a great presentation!! Roland Gilliam
_________________________________________________________________
Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the =93I=92m a PC=94 Messenger t
hemepack now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
It was a great privilege to meet Corrigan back when I was a younger fellow
volunteering at an aviation museum at Mitchell Field. In the eighties there
were still so many living pioneers of the early days.
The exhibits and aircraft were great to be around, and we had a lot of
silly fun working on airplanes and engines. (Don't kneel on an aluminum drip
pan while polishing a P-47 if the polisher is metal and not grounded. When a
W-670 is started up in the garage on a test stand, it is loud. Did I mention
the smoke?) Lindbergh's Jenny, the replica Spirit of St. Loius that Jimmy
Stewart flew, and tons of neat old stuff. Fairchild/Republic and Grumman
were close by, and it seemed there was always a competion to see who could
liberate the most restoraton supplies.
The neatest thing though was to rub shoulders with barnstormers, war vets,
Clipper Captains, maintenance guys. What a treasure.
Steve
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
From: Nancy Gilliam (amg3636(at)hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Dec 01 - 7:34 PM
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:34:48 PM PST
To: jtaddington(at)verizon.net
Subject: Great Story
A nice presentation of the Wrong Way Corrigan story. Another one from the
G
reatest Generation!You will love the music.
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=ttIEtl7j7k0
You will also enjoy the Dame Vera Lynn videos thatshow
up after the Corrigan one. They Knighted Vera Lynn after the war hence her
title Dame Vera Lynn.
Jim Addington
N444BDTHIS IS REALLY a great presentation!! Roland Gilliam
_________________________________________________________________
Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the =93I=92m a PC=94 Messenger
t
hemepack now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Wow! A personally autographed photograph. Now, that's impressive, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve at
Col-East
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Corrigan
It was a great privilege to meet Corrigan back when I was a younger fellow
volunteering at an aviation museum at Mitchell Field. In the eighties there
were still so many living pioneers of the early days.
The exhibits and aircraft were great to be around, and we had a lot of
silly fun working on airplanes and engines. (Don't kneel on an aluminum drip
pan while polishing a P-47 if the polisher is metal and not grounded. When a
W-670 is started up in the garage on a test stand, it is loud. Did I mention
the smoke?) Lindbergh's Jenny, the replica Spirit of St. Loius that Jimmy
Stewart flew, and tons of neat old stuff. Fairchild/Republic and Grumman
were close by, and it seemed there was always a competion to see who could
liberate the most restoraton supplies.
The neatest thing though was to rub shoulders with barnstormers, war vets,
Clipper Captains, maintenance guys. What a treasure.
Steve
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
From: Nancy Gilliam (amg3636(at)hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Dec 01 - 7:34 PM
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:34:48 PM PST
To: jtaddington(at)verizon.net
Subject: Great Story
A nice presentation of the Wrong Way Corrigan story. Another one from the
G
reatest Generation!You will love the music.
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=ttIEtl7j7k0
You will also enjoy the Dame Vera Lynn videos thatshow
up after the Corrigan one. They Knighted Vera Lynn after the war hence her
title Dame Vera Lynn.
Jim Addington
N444BDTHIS IS REALLY a great presentation!! Roland Gilliam
_________________________________________________________________
Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the =93I=92m a PC=94 Messenger
t
hemepack now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I got this from a friend and thought you might like it.
Jim Addington
N444BD
For those of you old enough to remember Jimmy Stewart in
"Strategic Air Command" in the 1950's, here is
a clip from that movie. Like many of the other films of
that period, Stewart played a major league baseball player
in the Post WWII period who is called back to active duty
service to join SAC.
Anyway, whoever sent out this clip found some good pictures
=0 A of the interiors and exterior of the B-36.
Remember, "Six Turnin' and Four
Burnin"".....the six props and the four jets that
were hung out on the wing to help the production models get
off the ground.
The B-36 was designed during WWII when the US thought that
England would be lost and we would be fighting the Germans
from the US and Canada. It was designed to take the War
to European cities from this side of the Atlantic.
Last of the piston-engined bombers.a behemoth
Worth it for the sound - six piston and four jet engines
You will also see Jimmy Stewart on the jump seat.....
Look at all those instruments and engine contr ols at
the Flight Engineer station.
Also note that the Co-Pilot controls the Jet engines
while the Flight Engineer controls the pistons
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2008-4-18-B-36-SAC-Video.wm
v
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
It's a pity that movie isn't available on DVD, or even better, Blueray. Som
e of the best flying footage ever shot. Most folks don't remember the B-36
(I do because it was actually used as a borate bomber for a short time, al
ong with the B-29 which lasted considerably longer). The story is only so-
so though it would be nice if folks remembered what things we like in the e
arly 50s ( like the honour of getting to be a "retread".) and what kind of
debt we owe to the people who served during that time (and later, while we
are at it).
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: Commander-List:
I got this from a friend and thought you might like it.
Jim Addington
N444BD
For those of you old enough to remember Jimmy Stewart in
"Strategic Air Command" in the 1950's, here is
a clip from that movie. Like many of the other films of
that period, Stewart played a major league baseball player
in the Post WWII period who is called back to active duty
service to join SAC.
Anyway, whoever sent out this clip found some good pictures
=0 A of the interiors and exterior of the B-36.
Remember, "Six Turnin' and Four
Burnin"".....the six props and the four jets that
were hung out on the wing to help the production models get
off the ground.
The B-36 was designed during WWII when the US thought that
England would be lost and we would be fighting the Germans
from the US and Canada. It was designed to take the War
to European cities from this side of the Atlantic.
Last of the piston-engined bombers...a behemoth
Worth it for the sound - six piston and four jet engines
You will also see Jimmy Stewart on the jump seat.....
Look at all those instruments and engine contr ols at
the Flight Engineer station.
Also note that the Co-Pilot controls the Jet engines
while the Flight Engineer controls the pistons
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2008-4-18-B-36-SAC-Video.w
mv
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Great footage. How many of you recognized Col. Sherman Potter's voice (MASH
4077) in the background. Only after a second look did I recognize him; he
sat right of Jimmy in the opening scenes.
I was wondering whether setting max power on the jets so early was because
they didn't have faith in them yet at the time or what. Perhaps today that
would be the last thing they did.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: Commander-List:
I got this from a friend and thought you might like it.
Jim Addington
N444BD
For those of you old enough to remember Jimmy Stewart in
"Strategic Air Command" in the 1950's, here is
a clip from that movie. Like many of the other films of
that period, Stewart played a major league baseball player
in the Post WWII period who is called back to active duty
service to join SAC.
Anyway, whoever sent out this clip found some good pictures
=0 A of the interiors and exterior of the B-36.
Remember, "Six Turnin' and Four
Burnin"".....the six props and the four jets that
were hung out on the wing to help the production models get
off the ground.
The B-36 was designed during WWII when the US thought that
England would be lost and we would be fighting the Germans
from the US and Canada. It was designed to take the War
to European cities from this side of the Atlantic.
Last of the piston-engined bombers.a behemoth
Worth it for the sound - six piston and four jet engines
You will also see Jimmy Stewart on the jump seat.....
Look at all those instruments and engine contr ols at
the Flight Engineer station.
Also note that the Co-Pilot controls the Jet engines
while the Flight Engineer controls the pistons
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2008-4-18-B-36-SAC-Video.wm
v
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
I think he was early on the throttles because it took that long to spool
up.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Great footage. How many of you recognized Col. Sherman Potter's voice
(MASH 4077) in the background. Only after a second look did I recognize
him; he sat right of Jimmy in the opening scenes.
I was wondering whether setting max power on the jets so early was
because they didn't have faith in them yet at the time or what. Perhaps
today that would be the last thing they did.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:11 AM
To: Jim Addington
Subject: Commander-List:
I got this from a friend and thought you might like it.
Jim Addington
N444BD
For those of you old enough to remember Jimmy Stewart in
"Strategic Air Command" in the 1950's, here is
a clip from that movie. Like many of the other films of
that period, Stewart played a major league baseball player
in the Post WWII period who is called back to active duty
service to join SAC.
Anyway, whoever sent out this clip found some good pictures
=0 A of the interiors and exterior of the B-36.
Remember, "Six Turnin' and Four
Burnin"".....the six props and the four jets that
were hung out on the wing to help the production models get
off the ground.
The B-36 was designed during WWII when the US thought that
England would be lost and we would be fighting the Germans
from the US and Canada. It was designed to take the War
to European cities from this side of the Atlantic.
Last of the piston-engined bombers.a behemoth
Worth it for the sound - six piston and four jet engines
You will also see Jimmy Stewart on the jump seat.....
Look at all those instruments and engine contr ols at
the Flight Engineer station.
Also note that the Co-Pilot controls the Jet engines
while the Flight Engineer controls the pistons
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2008-4-18-B-36-SAC-Video
.wmv
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Bruce Campbell wrote:
>
> Its a pity that movie isnt available on DVD
>
just fyi - it is available on dvd.
http://www.nostalgiafilms.com/stairco19dvd.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I got a ride in one out of Fort Worth when I was in collage. It was a fun
trip and it sure had a distinct sound.
Jim N444Bd
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
It's a pity that movie isn't available on DVD, or even better, Blueray. Some
of the best flying footage ever shot. Most folks don't remember the B-36 (I
do because it was actually used as a borate bomber for a short time, along
with the B-29 which lasted considerably longer). The story is only so-so
though it would be nice if folks remembered what things we like in the early
50s ( like the honour of getting to be a "retread".) and what kind of debt
we owe to the people who served during that time (and later, while we are at
it).
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: Commander-List:
I got this from a friend and thought you might like it.
Jim Addington
N444BD
For those of you old enough to remember Jimmy Stewart in
"Strategic Air Command" in the 1950's, here is
a clip from that movie. Like many of the other films of
that period, Stewart played a major league baseball player
in the Post WWII period who is called back to active duty
service to join SAC.
Anyway, whoever sent out this clip found some good pictures
=0 A of the interiors and exterior of the B-36.
Remember, "Six Turnin' and Four
Burnin"".....the six props and the four jets that
were hung out on the wing to help the production models get
off the ground.
The B-36 was designed during WWII when the US thought that
England would be lost and we would be fighting the Germans
from the US and Canada. It was designed to take the War
to European cities from this side of the Atlantic.
Last of the piston-engined bombers.a behemoth
Worth it for the sound - six piston and four jet engines
You will also see Jimmy Stewart on the jump seat.....
Look at all those instruments and engine contr ols at
the Flight Engineer station.
Also note that the Co-Pilot controls the Jet engines
while the Flight Engineer controls the pistons
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2008-4-18-B-36-SAC-Video.wm
v
bsp; (And Get Some AWESOME > http://www.matronics.com/consp;
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
-M==============
Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat,
FAQ,http://www.matro=================== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'day Jim et al,
These days in Oz a 'distinct sound' is a pair of geared lycomings...we still have
a couple of Queenairs up north here treating us to such audio!
Have a great weekend
Cheers
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I am glad you said that because I thought that was him but was not sure,
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Great footage. How many of you recognized Col. Sherman Potter's voice (MASH
4077) in the background. Only after a second look did I recognize him; he
sat right of Jimmy in the opening scenes.
I was wondering whether setting max power on the jets so early was because
they didn't have faith in them yet at the time or what. Perhaps today that
would be the last thing they did.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: Commander-List:
I got this from a friend and thought you might like it.
Jim Addington
N444BD
For those of you old enough to remember Jimmy Stewart in
"Strategic Air Command" in the 1950's, here is
a clip from that movie. Like many of the other films of
that period, Stewart played a major league baseball player
in the Post WWII period who is called back to active duty
service to join SAC.
Anyway, whoever sent out this clip found some good pictures
=0 A of the interiors and exterior of the B-36.
Remember, "Six Turnin' and Four
Burnin"".....the six props and the four jets that
were hung out on the wing to help the production models get
off the ground.
The B-36 was designed during WWII when the US thought that
England would be lost and we would be fighting the Germans
from the US and Canada. It was designed to take the War
to European cities from this side of the Atlantic.
Last of the piston-engined bombers.a behemoth
Worth it for the sound - six piston and four jet engines
You will also see Jimmy Stewart on the jump seat.....
Look at all those instruments and engine contr ols at
the Flight Engineer station.
Also note that the Co-Pilot controls the Jet engines
while the Flight Engineer controls the pistons
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2008-4-18-B-36-SAC-Video.wm
v
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I think you are right because I think those were the same engines we had on
the B-47 and it could trake up to 12 seconds to spool up from idle to 100
percent.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
I think he was early on the throttles because it took that long to spool up.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Great footage. How many of you recognized Col. Sherman Potter's voice (MASH
4077) in the background. Only after a second look did I recognize him; he
sat right of Jimmy in the opening scenes.
I was wondering whether setting max power on the jets so early was because
they didn't have faith in them yet at the time or what. Perhaps today that
would be the last thing they did.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: Commander-List:
I got this from a friend and thought you might like it.
Jim Addington
N444BD
For those of you old enough to remember Jimmy Stewart in
"Strategic Air Command" in the 1950's, here is
a clip from that movie. Like many of the other films of
that period, Stewart played a major league baseball player
in the Post WWII period who is called back to active duty
service to join SAC.
Anyway, whoever sent out this clip found some good pictures
=0 A of the interiors and exterior of the B-36.
Remember, "Six Turnin' and Four
Burnin"".....the six props and the four jets that
were hung out on the wing to help the production models get
off the ground.
The B-36 was designed during WWII when the US thought that
England would be lost and we would be fighting the Germans
from the US and Canada. It was designed to take the War
to European cities from this side of the Atlantic.
Last of the piston-engined bombers.a behemoth
Worth it for the sound - six piston and four jet engines
You will also see Jimmy Stewart on the jump seat.....
Look at all those instruments and engine contr ols at
the Flight Engineer station.
Also note that the Co-Pilot controls the Jet engines
while the Flight Engineer controls the pistons
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2008-4-18-B-36-SAC-Video.wm
v
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
And a G'day to you Russell, Those six R-4360's with the exhaust going back
through the props really made the ground vibrate. I hope it is warm down
there, it is cold here.
Hope you have a good week too.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
G'day Jim et al,
These days in Oz a 'distinct sound' is a pair of geared lycomings...we
still have a couple of Queenairs up north here treating us to such audio!
Have a great weekend
Cheers
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
| From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (MacbookPro)" <deneals(at)deneals.com> |
On 12/4/08 4:42 PM, "Jim Addington" wrote:
> I am glad you said that because I thought that was him but was not sure,
> Jim
I thought it was Officer Bill Gannon from =B3Dragnet.=B2
DS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Folks,
A lovely discontinuity error, if you look closely.
After the co-pilot DV window is closed, calling the pre takeoff checklist,
it then cuts to an external just before the aircraft rolls, and this window
is still open.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deneal
Schilmeister (MacbookPro)
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
On 12/4/08 4:42 PM, "Jim Addington" wrote:
I am glad you said that because I thought that was him but was not sure,
Jim
I thought it was Officer Bill Gannon from "Dragnet."
DS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List of Contributors 2008 |
Dear Listers,
This year's Fund Raiser has drawn to a close and I want to thank everyone that
so generously made a contribution this year in support of the Matronics Email
List and Forum operation. Your generosity keeps the wheels on this cart and I
truly appreciate the many kind words of encouragement and financial reimbursement.
If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser, please
feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available
on the Contribution site for a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution
today and still get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution
web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated!
And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2008 List of Contributors current
as of 12/7/08! Have a look at this list of names as *these* are the people
that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you
enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser!
THANK YOU!
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2008.html
I will be shipping out all of the gifts around the end of December. In most cases,
gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service.
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Fitzgerald" <DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Twin Commander facebook group |
Hi Folks
There was a distinct lack of Twin Commander facebook groups, so I created
one!
Please come and join up if you are on facebook!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=38090073191#/group.php?gid=38090073191
Dave
Dr David Fitzgerald
BMedSci(Hons) MBBS(Hons) ACCAM DipAvMed(Otago)
DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com
mob 0438 312973
==============================================
2:59 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: List of Contributors 2008 |
Matt, Well I guess my bank money order did not get to you in time, I don't
need to be on any list but wanted to make sure you received the money order.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:23 AM
Subject: Commander-List: List of Contributors 2008
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> This year's Fund Raiser has drawn to a close and I want to thank everyone
> that so generously made a contribution this year in support of the
> Matronics Email List and Forum operation. Your generosity keeps the
> wheels on this cart and I truly appreciate the many kind words of
> encouragement and financial reimbursement.
>
> If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund
> Raiser, please feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will
> be available on the Contribution site for a little while longer, so hurry
> and make your Contribution today and still get your great gift! Once
> again, the URL for the Contribution web site is:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> or by personal check to:
>
> Matronics / Matt Dralle
> PO Box 347
> Livermore CA 94551-0347
>
>
> I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (
> http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (
> http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric (
> http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during
> this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted
> merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and
> I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank
> you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated!
>
>
> And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2008 List of
> Contributors current as of 12/7/08! Have a look at this list of names as
> *these* are the people that make all of these List services possible! I
> can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during
> this year's Fund Raiser!
>
> THANK YOU!
>
> http://www.matronics.com/loc/2008.html
>
>
> I will be shipping out all of the gifts around the end of December. In
> most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service.
>
> Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Svendsen <tomsvendsen(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Twin Commander parts wanted |
Hi =2C I need some parts for rebuilding my Twin Commander.
It is a 680FL with Serial number 1355-34
The Twin commander will be for static display only =2C so the parts dont ne
ed to be in airworthy condition.
I hope that someone in this group has some spare parts to sell or trade =2C
or knows someone who have.
Here is my most wanted items for my 1963 model 680FL
___________________________________________________
Nose landing light installation containing:
1 ea 5800005-9 Doubler =2CLH
1 ea 5800005-10 Doubler =2CRH
1ea 5800005-11 Glass =2CLH
November 06, 2008 - December 11, 2008
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-df