Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dh
January 31, 2009 - March 23, 2009
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults
of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety
has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in
'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
This story of well intentioned government intervention in the
rights of lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen
in the mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If
President Obama advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will
not be any reporting any of this to you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands
of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws
affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE WHAT
HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
Amen!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this
country are going to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said "A fear of weapons is a
sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
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From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
To: 'art la combe'
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT
CONCLUSION!!!
The British called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
<http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
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| Subject: | Re: Depressurizing a Commander |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI MOE.
Yes, it has been done.=C2- It is a simple matter of nuts & bolts.=C2- Re
moving the press. system will however require a change in the heating system
.=C2- As for the switch to red fluid.=C2- Yes that to has been done.=C2
- There is no paper work for that change, but we know of Commanders that h
ave been changed.=C2- Press. Commanders converted to the MR RPM engines us
e bleed air to press, but are still required to use skydrol.=C2- I spoke w
ith Dick Macoon about this a few years back and he confirmed that his STC do
es not allow for the change to red fluid.=C2- i believe that the hi press
pumps with the reducer must also be retained, but I am not certain.=C2- Th
ere is no clear answer on the need to change all of the "O" rings in the sys
tem.=C2- Morris K says absolutely, others say no, I cant say.=C2- I woul
d take a skdrol O ring and soak it in red fluid, if it stays the same size,
OK.=C2- If it grows, no good.=C2- I believe it would require a 337 and f
ield approval to make the change.=C2- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:04 am
Subject: Commander-List: Depressurizing a Commander
Commander Drivers:
=C2-
Has anyone been involved in removing all of the pressurizing equipment in a
commander (the one I have is a 680Fp), changing the New York Air Brake Compa
ny hydraulic pumps back to normal pumps, and converting the Skydrol to red f
luid?=C2- One of the=2
0major expenses of maintaining the aircraft is the Pressurization system whi
ch requires the big pumps and Skydrol., Since my flying missions have change
d since retirement, certified known icing and pressurization are no longer a
bsolute requirements.=C2- Based on a past history of about the last 900 ho
urs, removal of these two systems would cut maintenance cost more than 50%.
=C2- Also, the de-icing equipment weighs 70.2 pounds, and the pressurizati
on optional (the 680Fp was not certified as a pressurized airplane) equipmen
t weighs 89.5 pounds.=C2- After removing this equipment I could then insta
ll a cool air (Freon) air conditioner, which would really be nice here in th
e New Mexico desert.
=C2-
Any and all comments will be greatly appreciated.
=C2-
Regards,
=C2-
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: Jim Addington
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this country are go
ing to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said =9CA fear of weapons is a sig
n of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=9D Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: Commander-
List: FW: Amazing video
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT CONCLUSION!!!
=C2-The British called - They want their rights back!=C2-
http://au.youtube.co =C2-m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE=C2-
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
Tyler,
I suspect that the operating cost of a 680F (not pressurized) and a 680E
should be close to the same, with the exception of the additional fuel
costs for the "F". The "F" (flat nacelle) should be faster than the "E"
(bathtub nacelle) but I have no idea if it will come close to offsetting
the additional fuel burn (square the horsepower to increase the speed?).
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Tylor Hall
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
After I posted that, I thought I should have done a fact check on it.
There is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to
check it out.
Back to helping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low pressure
hydraulics.
In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a 680E.
Moe and I had lunch the other day. Good to see him again.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
Hi Folks,
Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are
mentioned in fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a
massacre that killed 17 people.
I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this was
an absolutely =91over the top=92 reaction to a very unfortunate
incident. The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate
of number of weapons destroyed.
The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple
of tourist buses and caf=E9 in Tasmania.
And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out
screwballs in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons"
wrote:
Tyler,
Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard
time finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
Regards,
Moe
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I just received this from a friend.
Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
Tylor Hall
Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available
data from Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun
owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381
personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program cos
ting Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now available:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
percent);
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now
up 300 percent as compared with the last one year period when private
ownership of a firearm was legal.
(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal
firearms, the criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia
still possess their guns.)
While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of
privately owned guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with
firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as
criminals now are assured their victims will be unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults
of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety
has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in
'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
This story of well intentioned government intervention in the
rights of lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen
in the mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If
President Obama advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will
not be any reporting any of this to you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control
laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE
WHAT HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
Amen!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this
country are going to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said =93A fear of weapons
is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=94 Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
To: 'art la combe'
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT
CONCLUSION!!!
The British called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
<http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing videoRussell
Any idea on how the violent crimes as a percentage have done in the last
11 years? Up, down, sideways, or does your equivalent of the FBI post
such crime figures like they do in the U.S.?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Legg
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
Hi Folks,
Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are
mentioned in fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a
massacre that killed 17 people.
I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this was
an absolutely 'over the top' reaction to a very unfortunate incident.
The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate of number
of weapons destroyed.
The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple
of tourist buses and caf=E9 in Tasmania.
And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out
screwballs in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons"
wrote:
Tyler,
Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard
time finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
Regards,
Moe
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I just received this from a friend.
Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
Tylor Hall
Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available
data from Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun
owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381
personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program cos
ting Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now available:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
percent);
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now
up 300 percent as compared with the last one year period when private
ownership of a firearm was legal.
(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal
firearms, the criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia
still possess their guns.)
While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of
privately owned guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with
firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as
criminals now are assured their victims will be unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults
of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety
has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in
'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
This story of well intentioned government intervention in the
rights of lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen
in the mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If
President Obama advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will
not be any reporting any of this to you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control
laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE
WHAT HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
Amen!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this
country are going to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said "A fear of weapons is
a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
To: 'art la combe'
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT
CONCLUSION!!!
The British called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
<http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| From: | "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Nine Young Irishmen |
Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the
'Nine Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were
also sent to North America), but a large portion of the English speaking
world. Speaks wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect
our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have
nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured, tried,
and convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were
sentenced to death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas
McGee, Charles Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O'Gorman, Terrence
McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had any
final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them
said, "My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If
you will be easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as
gentlemen, to try to do better next time. And next time - sure we won't
be fools enough to get caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by the
neck until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized"
punishment for anyone offending the English crown at that time.
Passionate protests from all over the world forced the sentence to be
commuted to transportation for life to the wretched penal colonies of
Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of even
the British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected
Prime Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been
transported 25 years before. On the Queen's demand, the records of the
rest of the transported men were revealed and this is what was
uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of
John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D'ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O'GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Depressurizing a Commander |
Thanks, JB, I shall check up on changing the pumps. I would not feel
very comfortable with the big (4,000 PSI rating) pumps and red fluid,
given their tendancy for high pressure leaks. This, to me would be a
fire hazard that I am not willing to risk.
Regards,
Moe
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Depressurizing a Commander
HI MOE.
Yes, it has been done. It is a simple matter of nuts & bolts. Removing
the press. system will however require a change in the heating system.
As for the switch to red fluid. Yes that to has been done. There is no
paper work for that change, but we know of Commanders that have been
changed. Press. Commanders converted to the MR RPM engines use bleed
air to press, but are still required to use skydrol. I spoke with Dick
Macoon about this a few years back and he confirmed that his STC does
not allow for the change to red fluid. i believe that the hi press
pumps with the reducer must also be retained, but I am not certain.
There is no clear answer on the need to change all of the "O" rings in
the system. Morris K says absolutely, others say no, I cant say. I
would take a skdrol O ring and soak it in red fluid, if it stays the
same size, OK. If it grows, no good. I believe it would require a 337
and field approval to make the change. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:04 am
Subject: Commander-List: Depressurizing a Commander
Commander Drivers:
Has anyone been involved in removing all of the pressurizing equipment
in a commander (the one I have is a 680Fp), changing the New York Air
Brake Company hydraulic pumps back to normal pumps, and converting the
Skydrol to red fluid? One of the major expenses of maintaining the
aircraft is the Pressurization system which requires the big pumps and
Skydrol., Since my flying missions have changed since retirement,
certified known icing and pressurization are no longer absolute
requirements. Based on a past history of about the last 900 hours,
removal of these two systems would cut maintenance cost more than 50%.
Also, the de-icing equipment weighs 70.2 pounds, and the pressuriz ation
optional (the 680Fp was not certified as a pressurized airplane)
equipment weighs 89.5 pounds. After removing this equipment I could
then install a cool air (Freon) air conditioner, which would really be
nice here in the New Mexico desert.
Any and all comments will be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: Jim Addington
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a goo d video and that is what the new leaders in this country
are going to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said =9CA fear of weapons is a
sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=9D Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT CONCLUSION!!!
The British called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
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by MailMarshal< FONT color=black>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G=B9day Don,
I will dig around and see what turns up.
Cheers
Russell
On 1/2/09 5:17 AM, "dongirod" wrote:
> Russell
>
> Any idea on how the violent crimes as a percentage have done in the last
11
> years? Up, down, sideways, or does your equivalent of the FBI post such
crime
> figures like they do in the U.S.?
>
> Don
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Russell Legg <mailto:rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
>>
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:20 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are mentioned
in
>> fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a massacre that kille
d 17
>> people.
>>
>> I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this was a
n
>> absolutely =8Cover the top=B9 reaction to a very unfortunate incident. The
cost
>> to tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate of number of weapon
s
>> destroyed.
>>
>> The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple of
>> tourist buses and caf=E9 in Tasmania.
>>
>> And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out screwb
alls
>> in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
>>
>> Cheers from Oz
>>
>> Russell
>>
>>
>>
>> On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons" wr
ote:
>>
>>
>>> Tyler,
>>>
>>> Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard time
>>> finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Moe
>>>
>>> From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
>>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>>
>>> I just received this from a friend.
>>> Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
>>> Tylor Hall
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Australian Gun Law Update
>>>> Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts
>>>>
>>>> From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
>>>>
>>>> Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available data
from
>>>> Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun owners in
>>>> Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal fir
earms
>>>> to be destroyed by our own government, a program cos ting Australia
>>>> taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
>>>>
>>>> The first year results are now available:
>>>>
>>>> Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
>>>>
>>>> Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
>>>>
>>>> Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent);
>>>>
>>>> In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 3
00
>>>> percent as compared with the last one year period when private owner
ship
>>>> of a firearm was legal.
>>>>
>>>> (NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal firearms, t
he
>>>> criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia still posse
ss
>>>> their guns.)
>>>>
>>>> While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of privately
owned
>>>> guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this h
as
>>>> changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as criminals now ar
e
>>>> assured their victims will be unarmed.
>>>>
>>>> There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of
the
>>>> elderly, while the resident is at home.
>>>>
>>>> Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety ha
s
>>>> decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in
>>>> 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
>>>>
>>>> This story of well intentioned government intervention in the rights
of
>>>> lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen in the
>>>> mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If President Ob
ama
>>>> advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will not be any
>>>> reporting any of this to you.
>>>>
>>>> But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands
of
>>>> honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws a
ffect
>>>> only the law-abiding citizens.
>>>>
>>>> Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
>>>>
>>>> FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
>>>>
>>>> DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
>>>>
>>>> BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE WHAT
>>>> HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amen!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this count
ry
>>>>> are going to do there dead level best to do here.
>>>>>
>>>>> I got an email that had a clip that said =B3A fear of weapons is a si
gn of
>>>>> retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=B2 Sigmund Freud.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Addington
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico
css
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
>>>>> To: 'art la combe'
>>>>> Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT CONCLUSION
!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The British called - They want their rights back!
>>>>> http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
>>>>> <http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cl
eared
>>>>> by MailMarshal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Which stars will make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get Hollywood
>>>>> news, celebrity photos and more with the PopEater Toolbar
>>>>> <http://toolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown000000
27>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - The Commander-List Email Forum -
>>>>> <>--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>>
>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.m
atron
>>>>> ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>>>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com
/c
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
>>>> ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronic
>>> s.com/Navigator?Commander-List <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>>
>>>
>>> ist Email Forum -
>>> r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>>> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>>> ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>> matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>>> ;- List Contribution Web Site -
>>> ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> ://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics
>> .com/Navigator?Commander-List <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G=B9day Moe,
Yes you are right...this email or something close was circulated in 1998 or
1999 and it made reference to an increased incidence of armed robbery et al
.
It is very difficult to comment on the statistics because back in those day
s
=8Cwhole of Australia=B9 trends were difficult to ascertain. The quoted
statistics may in fact only be on the basis of aggregating a couple of Stat
e
results.
In reality...we still have armed hold-ups, we still have armed assaults and
we still have death by mis-adventure caused by accidental discharge of
firearms.
Glad you are really bonding with the golden pedal...
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 1/2/09 2:37 AM, "Moe-rosspistons" wrote:
> Russell,
>
> Do you have any idea of how long it took for the armed robbery rate to
> accelerate to the approximate number quoted? This email is not new. I s
eem
> to remember seeing it quite some time ago. Is it possible that it was
> originally written about nine or ten years ago?
>
> Cheers!
>
> Moe
> Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
>
>
> From: Russell Legg <mailto:rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:20 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are mentioned i
n
> fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a massacre that killed
17
> people.
>
> I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this was an
> absolutely =8Cover the top=B9 reaction to a very unfortunate incident. The co
st to
> tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate of number of weapons
> destroyed.
>
> The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple of
> tourist buses and caf=E9 in Tasmania.
>
> And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out screwbal
ls in
> our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
>
> Cheers from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
>
> On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons" wrote
:
>
>> Tyler,
>>
>> Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard time
>> finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Moe
>>
>> From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>
>> I just received this from a friend.
>> Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
>> Tylor Hall
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Australian Gun Law Update
>>> Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts
>>>
>>> From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
>>>
>>> Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available data
from
>>> Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun owners in
>>> Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal fire
arms
>>> to be destroyed by our own government, a program cos ting Australia
>>> taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
>>>
>>> The first year results are now available:
>>>
>>> Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
>>>
>>> Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
>>>
>>> Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent);
>>>
>>> In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 30
0
>>> percent as compared with the last one year period when private owners
hip
>>> of a firearm was legal.
>>>
>>> (NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal firearms, th
e
>>> criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia still posses
s
>>> their guns.)
>>>
>>> While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of privately o
wned
>>> guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this ha
s
>>> changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as criminals now are
>>> assured their victims will be unarmed.
>>>
>>> There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of
the
>>> elderly, while the resident is at home.
>>>
>>> Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has
>>> decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in
>>> 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
>>>
>>> This story of well intentioned government intervention in the rights
of
>>> lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen in the
>>> mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If President Oba
ma
>>> advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will not be any
>>> reporting any of this to you.
>>>
>>> But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands o
f
>>> honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws af
fect
>>> only the law-abiding citizens.
>>>
>>> Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
>>>
>>> FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
>>>
>>> DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
>>>
>>> BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE WHAT
>>> HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
>>
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Amen!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this countr
y are
>>>> going to do there dead level best to do here.
>>>>
>>>> I got an email that had a clip that said =B3A fear of weapons is a sig
n of
>>>> retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=B2 Sigmund Freud.
>>>>
>>>> I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
>>>>
>>>> Jim Addington
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico
css
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
>>>> To: 'art la combe'
>>>> Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT CONCLUSION!
!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The British called - They want their rights back!
>>>> http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
>>>> <http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cle
ared
>>>> by MailMarshal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which stars will make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get Hollywood
news,
>>>> celebrity photos and more with the PopEater Toolbar
>>>> <http://toolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown0000002
7> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - The Commander-List Email Forum -
>>>> <>--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma
troni
>>>> cs.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
>>> ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics
>> .com/Navigator?Commander-List <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>> ist Email Forum -
>> r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>> ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>> ;- List Contribution Web Site -
>> ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.
> com/Navigator?Commander-List <http://www.matronics.com/c>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
Moe,
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts. I
do not need to get there is blinding speed.
I also need to go high as you know. When I had Dan Farmers 500B for a
year, she burned 30 GPH.
Taking off of Pagosa Springs at 7600' in the summer was a concern with
a single engine ceiling of 8500'.
It gets hot here in New Mexico.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
> Tyler,
>
> I suspect that the operating cost of a 680F (not pressurized) and a
> 680E should be close to the same, with the exception of the
> additional fuel costs for the "F". The "F" (flat nacelle) should be
> faster than the "E" (bathtub nacelle) but I have no idea if it will
> come close to offsetting the additional fuel burn (square the
> horsepower to increase the speed?).
>
> Regards,
>
> Moe
> N680RR
> Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
>
> From: Tylor Hall
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>
> After I posted that, I thought I should have done a fact check on it.
> There is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to
> check it out.
>
> Back to helping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low
> pressure hydraulics.
>
> In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a 680E.
> Moe and I had lunch the other day. Good to see him again.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
> On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are
>> mentioned in fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a
>> massacre that killed 17 people.
>>
>> I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this
>> was an absolutely =91over the top=92 reaction to a very unfortunate
>> incident. The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is the
>> estimate of number of weapons destroyed.
>>
>> The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a
>> couple of tourist buses and caf=E9 in Tasmania.
>>
>> And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out
>> screwballs in our society before they take their 5 seconds of
>> limelight.
>>
>> Cheers from Oz
>>
>> Russell
>>
>>
>>
>> On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons"
>> wrote:
>>
>> Tyler,
>>
>> Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard
>> time finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Moe
>>
>> From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>
>> I just received this from a friend.
>> Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
>> Tylor Hall
>>
>>
>> Australian Gun Law Update
>> Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts
>>
>> From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
>>
>> Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available
>> data from Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since
>> gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender
>> 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a
>> program cos ting Australia taxpayers more than $500 million
>> dollars.
>>
>> The first year results are now available:
>>
>> Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
>>
>> Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
>>
>> Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent);
>>
>> In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up
>> 300 percent as compared with the last one year period when private
>> ownership of a firearm was legal.
>>
>> (NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal firearms,
>> the criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia still
>> possess their guns.)
>>
>> While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of
>> privately owned guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery
>> with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12
>> months as criminals now are assured their victims will be unarmed.
>>
>> There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults
>> of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
>>
>> Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety
>> has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was
>> expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
>>
>> This story of well intentioned government intervention in the
>> rights of lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be
>> seen in the mainstream US media or on the American evening news.
>> If President Obama advocates a similar confiscation in the US,
>> there will not be any reporting any of this to you.
>>
>> But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
>> hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-
>> control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
>>
>> Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
>>
>> FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
>>
>> DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
>>
>> BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE
>> WHAT HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Amen!
>>
>>
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
>>
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
>>
>> Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this
>> country are going to do there dead level best to do here.
>>
>> I got an email that had a clip that said =93A fear of weapons is a
>> sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=94 Sigmund Freud.
>>
>> I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
>>
>> Jim Addington
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> ] On Behalf Of nico css
>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
>> To: 'art la combe'
>> Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT CONCLUSION!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The British called - They want their rights back!
>> http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
<http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and
>> cleared by MailMarshal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Which stars will make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get
>> Hollywood news, celebrity photos and more with the PopEater
>> Toolbar
<http://toolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000027
>> > .
>>
>>
>> - The Commander-List Email Forum -
>> <>--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<http://www.matronics.com/c
>> >
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>> ist Email Forum -
>> r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> matronics.com
>> ;- List Contribution Web Site -
>> ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Nine Young Irishmen |
And how much prominence has been killed through abortion, I wonder.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:18 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the 'Nine
Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were also sent to
North America), but a large portion of the English speaking world. Speaks
wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have
nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured, tried, and
convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were sentenced to
death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas McGee, Charles
Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O'Gorman, Terrence McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had any
final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them said,
"My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If you will be
easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as gentlemen, to try to do
better next time. And next time - sure we won't be fools enough to get
caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by the neck
until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized" punishment
for anyone offending the English crown at that time. Passionate protests
from all over the world forced the sentence to be commuted to transportation
for life to the wretched penal colonies of Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of even the
British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected Prime
Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been transported 25
years before. On the Queen's demand, the records of the rest of the
transported men were revealed and this is what was uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D'ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O'GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nine Young Irishmen |
| From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Oh boy, here we go again...
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:38:56
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Nine Young Irishmen |
Hi Guys,
Those of you interested might find this enlightening.
http://www.ssaa.org.au/capitalnews/2008/2008-09-04_melbourne-uni-paper-Aust-
gun-buyback.pdf
It only shows what most of us already know.
I wont start a commentary because it will go on for hours.
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2009 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Oh boy, here we go again...
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:38:56
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Nine Young Irishmen |
This one is also good.
http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/2008/2008-06_evaluating-britains-handgun-ban
.html
We have gone so far in Australia to have our own political party. At the
moment we have two seats in parliament in New South Wales. The Greenies hate
us.
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2009 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Oh boy, here we go again...
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:38:56
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nine Young Irishmen |
| From: | Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
merely 34 MILLION in America alone! Oh - those were working taxpayers which
we don't have now. I know it is off topic - but truthfully, it is never off
topic. Look at all "my" hobbies - general aviation, ham radio, hunting and
fishing, my military career, all the "guy" stuff, is now old grey haired
guys. there just aren't enough young people out there to get interest. I can
think of 17 million young boys who might have had an interest.
bobf
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:38 PM, nico css wrote:
> And how much prominence has been killed through abortion, I wonder.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *dongirod
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:18 PM
> *To:* Commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
>
> Russell;
>
> I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the 'Nine
> Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were also sent to
> North America), but a large portion of the English speaking world. Speaks
> wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect our energies.
>
> And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have
> nothing on it.
>
> Don
>
>
> In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured, tried, and
> convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were sentenced to
> death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas McGee, Charles
> Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O'Gorman, Terrence McManus, Michael Ireland.
>
> Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had any
> final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them said,
> "My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If you will be
> easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as gentlemen, to try to do
> better next time. And next time - sure we won't be fools enough to get
> caught."
>
> Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by the
> neck until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized"
> punishment for anyone offending the English crown at that time. Passionate
> protests from all over the world forced the sentence to be commuted to
> transportation for life to the wretched penal colonies of Australia.
>
> Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of even
> the British Government.
>
> In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected Prime
> Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been transported 25
> years before. On the Queen's demand, the records of the rest of the
> transported men were revealed and this is what was uncovered:
>
> JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of John
> Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
>
> MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
> MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
>
> PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
>
> THOMAS D'ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
> Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
>
> THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
>
> TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
>
> RICHARD O'GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
| From: | Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
oh yeah - I always plan early morning departures in Colorado with my 500B!
if it is hot in the afternoon, we just spend another night in the cool
mountain country :)
bobf
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Tylor Hall wrote
:
> Moe,I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts. I
> do not need to get there is blinding speed.
> I also need to go high as you know. When I had Dan Farmers 500B for a
> year, she burned 30 GPH.
> Taking off of Pagosa Springs at 7600' in the summer was a concern with a
> single engine ceiling of 8500'.
> It gets hot here in New Mexico.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
> On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
>
> *Tyler,*
> **
> *I suspect that the operating cost of a 680F (not pressurized) and a 680E
> should be close to the same, with the exception of the additional fuel co
sts
> for the "F". The "F" (flat nacelle) should be faster than the "E" (batht
ub
> nacelle) but I have no idea if it will come close to offsetting the
> additional fuel burn (square the horsepower to increase the speed?).*
> **
> *Regards,*
> **
> *Moe*
> *N680RR*
> *Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award*
>
> *From:* Tylor Hall
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>
> After I posted that, I thought I should have done a fact check on it. The
re
> is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to check it o
ut.
>
> Back to helping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low pressure
> hydraulics.
>
> In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a 680E.
> Moe and I had lunch the other day. Good to see him again.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
> On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are mentioned i
n
> fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a massacre that killed
17
> people.
>
> I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this was an
> absolutely 'over the top' reaction to a very unfortunate incident. The co
st
> to tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate of number of weapons
> destroyed.
>
> The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple of
> tourist buses and caf=E9 in Tasmania.
>
> And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out screwbal
ls
> in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
>
> Cheers from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
> On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons" wrote
:
>
> *Tyler,
> *
> *Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard time
> finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
> *
> *Regards,
> *
> *Moe
> *
> *From:* Tylor Hall
> *Sent:* Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>
> I just received this from a friend.
> Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
> Tylor Hall
>
>
> *Australian Gun Law Update
> **Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts*
>
> From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
>
> Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available data fro
m
> Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun owners in
> Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firear
ms
> to be destroyed by our own government, a program cos ting Australia
> taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
>
> The first year results are now available:
>
> Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
>
> Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
>
> Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent);
>
> In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300
> percent as compared with the last one year period when private ownership
of
> a firearm was legal.
>
> (NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal firearms, the
> criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia still possess
> their guns.)
>
> While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of privately owne
d
> guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has
> changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as criminals now are
> assured their victims will be unarmed.
>
> There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the
> elderly, while the resident is at home.
>
> Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has
> decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in
> 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
>
> This story of well intentioned government intervention in the rights of
> lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen in the
> mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If President Obama
> advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will not be any report
ing
> any of this to you.
>
> But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of
> honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affec
t
> only the law-abiding citizens.
>
> Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
> *
> FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
>
> DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
>
> BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE WHAT
> HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US ! *
>
> On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
>
>
> Amen!
>
>
> Don
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Jim Addington
>
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
>
> *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>
>
> That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this country ar
e
> going to do there dead level best to do here.
>
> I got an email that had a clip that said "A fear of weapons is a sign of
> retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud.
>
> I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
>
> Jim Addington
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> *On Behalf Of *nico css
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
> *To:* 'art la combe'
> *Subject:* Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
>
>
> BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT CONCLUSION!!!
>
>
> *The British called - They want their rights back!*
> *http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE*
> <http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
> by *MailMarshal
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Which stars will make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get Hollywood news
,
> celebrity photos and more with the PopEater Toolbar
> <http://toolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000027
><http://toolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000027>
.
> *
>
> **- The Commander-List Email Forum -
> <>--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com
> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/c>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> ist Email Forum -
> r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> matronics.com
> ;- List Contribution Web Site -
> ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
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tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
> *
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> *
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
> *
>
>
> *
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===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
I have low pressure (1,000psi) hydraulics now...I just want to get rid
of that #%&*##$* Skydrol.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
After I posted that, I thought I should have done a fact check on it.
There is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to
check it out.
Back to helping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low pressure
hydraulics.
In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a 680E.
Moe and I had lunch the other day. Good to see him again.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
Hi Folks,
Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are
mentioned in fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a
massacre that killed 17 people.
I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this
was an absolutely =91over the top=92 reaction to a very unfortunate
incident. The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate
of number of weapons destroyed.
The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple
of tourist buses and caf=E9 in Tasmania.
And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out
screwballs in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons"
wrote:
Tyler,
Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard
time finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
Regards,
Moe
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I just received this from a friend.
Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
Tylor Hall
Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available
data from Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun
owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381
personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program cos
ting Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now available:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
percent);
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now
up 300 percent as compared with the last one year period when private
ownership of a firearm was legal.
(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal
firearms, the criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia
still possess their guns.)
While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of
privately owned guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with
firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as
criminals now are assured their victims will be unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and
assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was
expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
This story of well intentioned government intervention in the
rights of lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen
in the mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If
President Obama advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will
not be any reporting any of this to you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control
laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE
WHAT HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
Amen!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this
country are going to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said =93A fear of weapons
is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=94 Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
To: 'art la combe'
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT
CONCLUSION!!!
The British called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
<http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
Tom,
Tomorrow I will start experimenting with the "O" rings to find out if
red really does harm the ethylene propylene type which are used with
Skydrol. Hope I can find my durometer, haven't used it since my top fuel
dragster days.....
Regards,
Moe
From: Tom Fisher
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I have low pressure (1,000psi) hydraulics now...I just want to get rid
of that #%&*##$* Skydrol.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
After I posted that, I thought I should have done a fact check on it.
There is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to
check it out.
Back to helping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low pressure
hydraulics.
In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a 680E.
Moe and I had lunch the other day. Good to see him again.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
Hi Folks,
Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are
mentioned in fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a
massacre that killed 17 people.
I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this
was an absolutely =91over the top=92 reaction to a very unfortunate
incident. The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate
of number of weapons destroyed.
The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple
of tourist buses and caf=E9 in Tasmania.
And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out
screwballs in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons"
wrote:
Tyler,
Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard
time finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
Regards,
Moe
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I just received this from a friend.
Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
Tylor Hall
Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available
data from Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun
owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381
personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program cos
ting Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now available:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
percent);
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now
up 300 percent as compared with the last one year period when private
ownership of a firearm was legal.
(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal
firearms, the criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia
still possess their guns.)
While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of
privately owned guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with
firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as
criminals now are assured their victims will be unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and
assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was
expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
This story of well intentioned government intervention in the
rights of lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen
in the mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If
President Obama advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will
not be any reporting any of this to you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control
laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE
WHAT HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
Amen!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this
country are going to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said =93A fear of weapons
is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=94 Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
To: 'art la combe'
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT
CONCLUSION!!!
The British called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
<http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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and cleared by MailMarshal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which stars will make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get
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> .
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Depressurizing a Commander |
mm=2C commander aero converted my 680Fp to 5606. MrRPM conversion. it has
been 5 years and no real problems=2C bad o ring every so often. talk to
gary kromer about the change. gmc
From: moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.comTo: commander-list(at)matronics.comSubject: C
ommander-List: Depressurizing a CommanderDate: Fri=2C 30 Jan 2009 11:04:18
-0800
Commander Drivers:
Has anyone been involved in removing all of the pressurizing equipment in a
commander (the one I have is a 680Fp)=2C changing the New York Air Brake C
ompany hydraulic pumps back to normal pumps=2C and converting the Skydrol t
o red fluid? One of the major expenses of maintaining the aircraft is the
Pressurization system which requires the big pumps and Skydrol.=2C Since my
flying missions have changed since retirement=2C certified known icing and
pressurization are no longer absolute requirements. Based on a past histo
ry of about the last 900 hours=2C removal of these two systems would cut ma
intenance cost more than 50%. Also=2C the de-icing equipment weighs 70.2 p
ounds=2C and the pressurization optional (the 680Fp was not certified as a
pressurized airplane) equipment weighs 89.5 pounds. After removing this eq
uipment I could then install a cool air (Freon) air conditioner=2C which wo
uld really be nice here in the New Mexico desert.
Any and all comments will be greatly appreciated.
Regards=2C
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: Jim Addington
Sent: Thursday=2C January 29=2C 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this country are g
oing to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said =93A fear of weapons is a sign of
retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=94 Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico cssSent: Thursday=2C January 29
=2C 2009 7:59 PMTo: 'art la combe'Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing vide
o
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT CONCLUSION!!!
The British called - They want their rights back! http://au.youtube.co m:
80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by
MailMarshal
=
Which stars will make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get Hollywood news=2C
celebrity photos and more with the PopEater Toolbar. - The Comm
ander-List Email Forum -< span>--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Comma
nder-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contrib
ution Web Site - -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nine Young Irishmen |
Amen!
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 6:38 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
And how much prominence has been killed through abortion, I wonder.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:18 PM
To: Commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the
'Nine Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were
also sent to North America), but a large portion of the English speaking
world. Speaks wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect
our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have
nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured,
tried, and convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were
sentenced to death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas
McGee, Charles Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O'Gorman, Terrence
McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had
any final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them
said, "My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If
you will be easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as
gentlemen, to try to do better next time. And next time - sure we won't
be fools enough to get caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by
the neck until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized"
punishment for anyone offending the English crown at that time.
Passionate protests from all over the world forced the sentence to be
commuted to transportation for life to the wretched penal colonies of
Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of
even the British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected
Prime Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been
transported 25 years before. On the Queen's demand, the records of the
rest of the transported men were revealed and this is what was
uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of
John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D'ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O'GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nine Young Irishmen |
Richard;
A good politician would probably claim, it was the wonderful influence of
Australia that turned these nine young men around to their full potential
and there is probably some truth in that!
Did enjoy the article, thanks. It pretty well coincides with my beliefs.
Guns don't kill people, people do. Believe I learned that in Bible school,
"Cain slew Able".
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 2:15 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
>
>
> This one is also good.
> http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/2008/2008-06_evaluating-britains-handgun-ban
> .html
>
> We have gone so far in Australia to have our own political party. At the
> moment we have two seats in parliament in New South Wales. The Greenies
> hate
> us.
> Cheers
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2009 3:18 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
>
> Oh boy, here we go again...
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
>
> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:38:56
> To:
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
>
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nine Young Irishmen |
I'd be sceptical on this, but only because the term "drawn and
quartered". That refers to what is done to a cow (or other animal) after
slaughter: hung, drawn (allow the blood to flow from it), and quartered
- cut into quarters for sale and consumption. The term "hanged" is
right, though - a person his hanged, not hung.
But, it could be true, too; the writer of the story might have taken
poetic licence and embellished the story.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: dongirod
To: Commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:17 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the
'Nine Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were
also sent to North America), but a large portion of the English speaking
world. Speaks wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect
our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have
nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured,
tried, and convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were
sentenced to death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas
McGee, Charles Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O'Gorman, Terrence
McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had
any final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them
said, "My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If
you will be easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as
gentlemen, to try to do better next time. And next time - sure we won't
be fools enough to get caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by
the neck until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized"
punishment for anyone offending the English crown at that time.
Passionate protests from all over the world forced the sentence to be
commuted to transportation for life to the wretched penal colonies of
Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of
even the British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected
Prime Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been
transported 25 years before. On the Queen's demand, the records of the
rest of the transported men were revealed and this is what was
uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of
John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D'ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O'GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Nine Young Irishmen |
Andrew,
This was a common way of terminating ones enemies. The process I believe was
to hang the individual in more of a throttling way ( as opposed to neck
snapping) until death was imminent. Then the individual would be attached to
a couple of horses and literally pulled apart. The different parts were then
sent to areas were the individual had supporters as a warning. It was more a
middle ages type thing. William Wallace was one of the recipients of this
treatment (Mel Gibson - Braveheart)
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Monday, 2 February 2009 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
I'd be sceptical on this, but only because the term "drawn and quartered".
That refers to what is done to a cow (or other animal) after slaughter:
hung, drawn (allow the blood to flow from it), and quartered - cut into
quarters for sale and consumption. The term "hanged" is right, though - a
person his hanged, not hung.
But, it could be true, too; the writer of the story might have taken poetic
licence and embellished the story.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: dongirod <mailto:dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:17 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the 'Nine
Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were also sent to
North America), but a large portion of the English speaking world. Speaks
wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have
nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured, tried, and
convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were sentenced to
death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas McGee, Charles
Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O'Gorman, Terrence McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had any
final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them said,
"My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If you will be
easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as gentlemen, to try to do
better next time. And next time - sure we won't be fools enough to get
caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by the neck
until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized" punishment
for anyone offending the English crown at that time. Passionate protests
from all over the world forced the sentence to be commuted to transportation
for life to the wretched penal colonies of Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of even the
British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected Prime
Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been transported 25
years before. On the Queen's demand, the records of the rest of the
transported men were revealed and this is what was uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D'ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O'GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron
ic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nine Young Irishmen |
Richard,
You could be right I am very aware from personal experience that that
sort of inhumanity occurs in warfare; just wasn't aware that such would
have been condoned in a so called "Court of Law". I should have known
better: man's inhumanity to man is as extreme today as it ever was, so
why should it not be then?
In December 1979 I was a cop in the Rhodesian BSAP and was sent to
investigate a sudden death where a four-year-old girl had been murdered.
Mugabe's "Freedom Fighters" - which is what the world called them; we
called them terrorists - demanded food from an old woman in a village;
she gave them what they wanted, and after they finished it they told her
that it was not to their liking. They took her grandchild and said they
knew the child's father was in the police (he was), and so they raped
her before inspanning four donkeys, and ripping the still living child
limb from limb.
And what did the world do?
In 1982 Mugabe was made Prime Minister of Zimbabwe, and from about 1984
to 1986 he sent his North Korean trained Fifth Brigade into Matabeleland
South - a province in Zimbabwe - where they massacred some 20,000
people. BBC reported it, and what did the world do?
Look what's happening in Zimbabwe today.
And what's the world doing?
I apologise for the rant. I hadn't connected "drawn and quartered" to
that sort of thing until I read your e-mail, Richard - and then all the
dreadful memories came flooding back.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard & Jacqui Thompson
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Andrew,
This was a common way of terminating ones enemies. The process I
believe was to hang the individual in more of a throttling way ( as
opposed to neck snapping) until death was imminent. Then the individual
would be attached to a couple of horses and literally pulled apart. The
different parts were then sent to areas were the individual had
supporters as a warning. It was more a middle ages type thing. William
Wallace was one of the recipients of this treatment (Mel Gibson -
Braveheart)
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Monday, 2 February 2009 7:24 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
I'd be sceptical on this, but only because the term "drawn and
quartered". That refers to what is done to a cow (or other animal) after
slaughter: hung, drawn (allow the blood to flow from it), and quartered
- cut into quarters for sale and consumption. The term "hanged" is
right, though - a person his hanged, not hung.
But, it could be true, too; the writer of the story might have taken
poetic licence and embellished the story.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: dongirod
To: Commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:17 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the
'Nine Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were
also sent to North America), but a large portion of the English speaking
world. Speaks wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect
our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they
have nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured,
tried, and convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were
sentenced to death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas
McGee, Charles Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O'Gorman, Terrence
McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had
any final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them
said, "My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If
you will be easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as
gentlemen, to try to do better next time. And next time - sure we won't
be fools enough to get caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by
the neck until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized"
punishment for anyone offending the English crown at that time.
Passionate protests from all over the world forced the sentence to be
commuted to transportation for life to the wretched penal colonies of
Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of
even the British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been
elected Prime Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had
been transported 25 years before. On the Queen's demand, the records of
the rest of the transported men were revealed and this is what was
uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of
John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D'ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O'GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c
http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Nine Young Irishmen |
Be assured, Zimbabwe is only getting front-burner attention because of its
economic woes and not its humanitarian crimes. In many so-called respected
countries, this sort of infanticide and genocide is rife, known to the
world, and nothing is done about it. It only takes two generations to forget
the atrocities of a despotic past. Even the holocaust is fading into the
past and it enjoyed a lot of attention, as it should have. Only a small
number of people is still alive that had family and friends disappearing in
WWII, and the number is decreasing every day. So, most people alive today
have no real connection to such evil; unless one has lived in countries that
still live in the dark ages.
The keen eye can spot the same barbaric brutality in our society today,
masked by political correctness and a sense of entitlement. Make no mistake,
they will tore you and your children limb from limb if you get in their way.
We, who rant and rave about these abuses, are called nuts and fanatics, but
history will prove us to be either Paul Reveres or Chicken Littles. Sadly,
by the time history judges us, it would probably be too late.
I know mud. What's coming aint no mud unless we pursue our beliefs and
initiatives.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Richard,
You could be right I am very aware from personal experience that that sort
of inhumanity occurs in warfare; just wasn't aware that such would have been
condoned in a so called "Court of Law". I should have known better: man's
inhumanity to man is as extreme today as it ever was, so why should it not
be then?
In December 1979 I was a cop in the Rhodesian BSAP and was sent to
investigate a sudden death where a four-year-old girl had been murdered.
Mugabe's "Freedom Fighters" - which is what the world called them; we called
them terrorists - demanded food from an old woman in a village; she gave
them what they wanted, and after they finished it they told her that it was
not to their liking. They took her grandchild and said they knew the child's
father was in the police (he was), and so they raped her before inspanning
four donkeys, and ripping the still living child limb from limb.
And what did the world do?
In 1982 Mugabe was made Prime Minister of Zimbabwe, and from about 1984 to
1986 he sent his North Korean trained Fifth Brigade into Matabeleland South
- a province in Zimbabwe - where they massacred some 20,000 people. BBC
reported it, and what did the world do?
Look what's happening in Zimbabwe today.
And what's the world doing?
I apologise for the rant. I hadn't connected "drawn and quartered" to that
sort of thing until I read your e-mail, Richard - and then all the dreadful
memories came flooding back.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard <mailto:RnJThompson(at)aol.com> & Jacqui Thompson
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Andrew,
This was a common way of terminating ones enemies. The process I believe was
to hang the individual in more of a throttling way ( as opposed to neck
snapping) until death was imminent. Then the individual would be attached to
a couple of horses and literally pulled apart. The different parts were then
sent to areas were the individual had supporters as a warning. It was more a
middle ages type thing. William Wallace was one of the recipients of this
treatment (Mel Gibson - Braveheart)
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Monday, 2 February 2009 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
I'd be sceptical on this, but only because the term "drawn and quartered".
That refers to what is done to a cow (or other animal) after slaughter:
hung, drawn (allow the blood to flow from it), and quartered - cut into
quarters for sale and consumption. The term "hanged" is right, though - a
person his hanged, not hung.
But, it could be true, too; the writer of the story might have taken poetic
licence and embellished the story.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: dongirod <mailto:dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:17 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the 'Nine
Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were also sent to
North America), but a large portion of the English speaking world. Speaks
wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have
nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured, tried, and
convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were sentenced to
death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas McGee, Charles
Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O'Gorman, Terrence McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had any
final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them said,
"My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If you will be
easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as gentlemen, to try to do
better next time. And next time - sure we won't be fools enough to get
caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by the neck
until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized" punishment
for anyone offending the English crown at that time. Passionate protests
from all over the world forced the sentence to be commuted to transportation
for life to the wretched penal colonies of Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of even the
British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected Prime
Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been transported 25
years before. On the Queen's demand, the records of the rest of the
transported men were revealed and this is what was uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D'ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O'GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flight Levels magazine |
Hi Guys,
Just received the latest issue of "Flight Levels" and, as usual, the
first item I looked for was the "Twin Commander History" piece.
Oh dear - more errors.
Firstly, the GO-480-B engines were not 280hp, but were rated at 270hp
for 5 minutes on take-off and 260hp maximum continuous.
Secondly, it's a pity they evidently couldn't find a photo of a Model
560 - I've got hundreds to choose from!
The photo used is of a 560A, N2754B s/n 254, which is carrying the
titles of The Long-Bell Lumber Company, of Kansas City, Missouri.
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
Aero Commander Specialist
Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd.
Over 40 years experience in Commander history.
Database currently comprises over 93,130 records.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine |
Barry, have you ever heard of a model 580 Commander? I think it was to be a
560F with bigger engines.
Bill Leff
**************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Looking for Craig Kennedy |
Does anyone know Craig Kennedy. He owns N747H. I would like to get in touch
with him.
Thanks
Bill Leff
**************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Levels magazine |
Hi Bill,
I have a Fact File covering the "Unbuilt Model Variants and Projects".
I'm certain it doesn't cover every single idea that the Factory had, but
it does list a Model 580L.
This was covered by Report No. AP10-103, "Preliminary Aerodynamic
Performance", dated August 23rd 1960.
Doesn't seem to be based on the 560F though, as MTOW was only 5,500lb
and engines were Lycoming IO-540 series.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flight Levels magazine
Barry, have you ever heard of a model 580 Commander? I think it was to
be a 560F with bigger engines.
Bill Leff
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Flying with doors removed. |
Does anyone have, or know of someone who has, an approval to fly with the
cabin or baggage door removed?
If so, could you send me contact information?
Thanks
Bill Leff
**************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Flying with doors removed. |
You don't mean that kind of approval where you try to get the door back on
before anyone can see that it was removed?
:-)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 5:02 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Does anyone have, or know of someone who has, an approval to fly with the
cabin or baggage door removed?
If so, could you send me contact information?
Thanks
Bill Leff
_____
Great
p://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;211531132;33070124;e> Deals on Dell Laptops.
Starting at $499.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Now remember, folks, my birthday is coming up in June. If you move now
you'll still be able to get it delivered to me before the big day! Let's not
mess this one up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0snTqLQLpBA
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0snTqLQLpBA&eurl=http://www.avweb.com/elette
r/archives/avflash/1309-full.html>
&eurl=http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1309-full.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
No, I have to do this by there book. I am doing it for the Air Force. Spy
stuff you know!
**************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Great question.? I dont, but I know that "Air Force One", the 680?now in the AF
museum was used for skydiving for a bit so it has been done.? Barry, any thoughts.?
Do you have any paperwork for that airplane??? jb
Does anyone have, or know of someone who has, an approval to fly with the cabin
or baggage door removed?
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 5:01 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Does anyone have, or know of someone who has, an approval to fly with the cabin
or baggage door removed?
?
If so, could you send me contact information?
?
Thanks
?
Bill Leff
Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
G'day Jimbob, Bill et al,
Here in Oz we have a 560E which has a roller door conversion fitted up across the
rear cabin roof where the headliner would be. While not in use the normal cabin
door is reattached and the roller door locked in place above the rear bench
seat.
The intention of the roller door is to provide easy and safe in-flight opening
for skydiving operations.
I can send some jpegs...
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Flying with doors removed. |
560E VH-CAU has a roller door fitted for skydiving. I will find out about
the paperwork. It was done about 7 or 8 years ago. The roller door slides up
across the roof of the rear cabin while the normal door is fitted. The
aircraft also has foot and hand rails fitted to the fuselage for the meat
bombs to hang onto.
The 680E has been reweighed, managed to get a couple of hundred pounds out
of her. Has even got a professional looking weight & balance system. All
very modern. If anyone is interested I will send them copies.
Have almost finished the inspections for C of A. So hopefully will be flying
next week. Only 8 years later ( quick project).
Amazing times here in OZ, floods in the North, Rain in Sydney and Victoria
is on fire with considerable loss of life. About 200 dead and whole towns
wiped out. Eriksons Aircranes are going to be worn out by the end of the
season.
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2009 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Great question. I dont, but I know that "Air Force One", the 680 now in the
AF museum was used for skydiving for a bit so it has been done. Barry, any
thoughts. Do you have any paperwork for that airplane?? jb
Does anyone have, or know of someone who has, an approval to fly with the
cabin or baggage door removed?
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 5:01 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Does anyone have, or know of someone who has, an approval to fly with the
cabin or baggage door removed?
If so, could you send me contact information?
Thanks
Bill Leff
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Flying with doors removed. |
Hey Russell,
CAU is for sale I believe the camel driver wants about 38K with fresh 100.
Needs engines badly.
When are you and Buddy going on holiday?
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2009 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
G'day Jimbob, Bill et al,
Here in Oz we have a 560E which has a roller door conversion fitted up
across the rear cabin roof where the headliner would be. While not in use
the normal cabin door is reattached and the roller door locked in place
above the rear bench seat.
The intention of the roller door is to provide easy and safe in-flight
opening for skydiving operations.
I can send some jpegs...
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
Richard,
If it would not be too much trouble, I would really like to see some photos
of your project.
Thanks,
Bert Berry
_bertberry1(at)aol.com_ (mailto:bertberry1(at)aol.com)
In a message dated 2/10/2009 1:08:21 A.M. Central Standard Time,
RnJThompson(at)aol.com writes:
560E VH-CAU has a roller door fitted for skydiving. I will find out about
the paperwork. It was done about 7 or 8 years ago. The roller door slides up
across the roof of the rear cabin while the normal door is fitted. The aircraft
also has foot and hand rails fitted to the fuselage for the meat bombs to
hang onto.
The 680E has been reweighed, managed to get a couple of hundred pounds out
of her. Has even got a professional looking weight & balance system. All very
modern. If anyone is interested I will send them copies.
Have almost finished the inspections for C of A. So hopefully will be flying
next week. Only 8 years later ( quick project).
Amazing times here in OZ, floods in the North, Rain in Sydney and Victoria
is on fire with considerable loss of life. About 200 dead and whole towns
wiped out. Eriksons Aircranes are going to be worn out by the end of the season.
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2009 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Great question. I dont, but I know that "Air Force One", the 680 now in the
AF museum was used for skydiving for a bit so it has been done. Barry, any
thoughts. Do you have any paperwork for that airplane?? jb
Does anyone have, or know of someone who has, an approval to fly with the
cabin or baggage door removed?
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 5:01 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Does anyone have, or know of someone who has, an approval to fly with the
cabin or baggage door removed?
If so, could you send me contact information?
Thanks
Bill Leff
____________________________________
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**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
G'dsy Rich,
Many thanks for the heads up on CAU...do you know whether it is flying? RE
supposedly has it 'up and about' again...?
Vacation in January was full of laughs...
1. Ask me what happened when Kerry plugged her expensive yankee curler into
the hotel grid without the transformer; to curl her hair one night she
couldn't sleep...
2. Ask me what happened when Capt W found the need to pickup a Balinese
monkey?
3. Ask me what happened when Kerry stalled her ATV on a steep incline in the
mud?
4. Ask me what happened when I took Capt W to the Bubba Gump in Kuta?
5. Ask me what happened when Kerry noticed that two Balinese lobsters were
still swimming in the tank after we had finished our main course one
lunchtime?
6. Ask me how I survived our water-sports day at Nusa Dua?
Hope you like the jpeg... just as we embarked on our first ATV adventure in
Gianyar!
Did you 'crunch' the deal on the Swift?
Cheers from the Topend!
Russell
On 10/2/09 4:35 PM, "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" wrote:
>
>
> Hey Russell,
> CAU is for sale I believe the camel driver wants about 38K with fresh 100.
> Needs engines badly.
> When are you and Buddy going on holiday?
> Cheers
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2009 5:42 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
>
>
> G'day Jimbob, Bill et al,
>
> Here in Oz we have a 560E which has a roller door conversion fitted up
> across the rear cabin roof where the headliner would be. While not in use
> the normal cabin door is reattached and the roller door locked in place
> above the rear bench seat.
>
> The intention of the roller door is to provide easy and safe in-flight
> opening for skydiving operations.
>
> I can send some jpegs...
>
> Cheers from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
Richard,
Is CAU the one sitting in (not on) the grass at YMMB?
How's the "first flight" progressing?
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
> Richard & Jacqui Thompson wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey Russell,
> CAU is for sale I believe the camel driver wants about 38K with fresh
> 100.
> Needs engines badly.
> When are you and Buddy going on holiday?
> Cheers
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2009 5:42 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
>
>
> G'day Jimbob, Bill et al,
>
> Here in Oz we have a 560E which has a roller door conversion fitted up
> across the rear cabin roof where the headliner would be. While not in
> use
> the normal cabin door is reattached and the roller door locked in place
> above the rear bench seat.
>
> The intention of the roller door is to provide easy and safe in-flight
> opening for skydiving operations.
>
> I can send some jpegs...
>
> Cheers from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
Hi Bill,
CAU is on the ground at Goulburn...was almost in the grass for a while.
How is the 500A coming along?
Cheers
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Flying with doors removed. |
Hi Bill,
Did not need the seats as Bruce had all that type of info. He is pretty good
at what he does. The old girl is a bit lighter than she was. Have gone
through the airframe, avionics and instrument checks. Will be doing the
engines when the weather clears. Mal Rose is doing the Cof A. So hopefully
within the next week or two.
Will keep you posted.
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au
Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: RE: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Richard,
Is CAU the one sitting in (not on) the grass at YMMB?
How's the "first flight" progressing?
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
> Richard & Jacqui Thompson wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey Russell,
> CAU is for sale I believe the camel driver wants about 38K with fresh
> 100.
> Needs engines badly.
> When are you and Buddy going on holiday?
> Cheers
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2009 5:42 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
>
>
> G'day Jimbob, Bill et al,
>
> Here in Oz we have a 560E which has a roller door conversion fitted up
> across the rear cabin roof where the headliner would be. While not in
> use
> the normal cabin door is reattached and the roller door locked in place
> above the rear bench seat.
>
> The intention of the roller door is to provide easy and safe in-flight
> opening for skydiving operations.
>
> I can send some jpegs...
>
> Cheers from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
175kts and 35-38 gph is the reall sory (I have flow triple 2 615hours)=C2
- jb
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
Moe,
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts. =C2-I d
o not need to get there is blinding speed.
I also need to go high as you know. =C2-When I had Dan Farmers 500B for a
year, she burned 30 GPH.
Taking off of Pagosa Springs at 7600' in the summer was a concern with a sin
gle engine=C2-ceiling=C2-of 8500'.
It gets hot here in New Mexico. =C2-
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
Tyler,
=C2-
I suspect that the operating cost of a 680F (not pressurized)=C2-and a 680
E should be close to the same, with the exception of the additional fuel cos
ts for the "F".=C2- The "F" (flat nacelle) should be faster than the "E" (
bathtub nacelle) but I have no idea if it will come close to offsetting the
additional fuel burn (square the horsepower to increase the speed?).
=C2-
Regards,
=C2-
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Tylor Hall
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
After I posted that, I thought I should have done a
fact check on it.
There is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to check i
t out.
Back to helping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low pressure hydra
ulics.
In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a 680E.
Moe and I had lunch the other day. =C2-Good to see him again.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
Hi Folks,
Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are mentioned in f
act were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a massacre that killed 17 p
eople.
I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this was an abs
olutely =98over the top=99 reaction to a very unfortunate incide
nt. The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate of number o
f weapons destroyed.
The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple of tour
ist buses and caf=C3=A9 in Tasmania.
And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out screwballs
in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons" wrote:
Tyler,
Thanks for posting this. =C2-I had planed to, but was having a hard time f
inding it in my computer. =C2-Enjoyed having lunch with you.
Regards,
Moe
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> =C2-
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
Subj
ect: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I just received this from a friend.
Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
Tylor Hall
=C2-=C2-
=C2-Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your =C2-hearts
From: =C2-=C2-=C2-Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I =C2-thought you all would like to see the now available data f
rom Down =C2-Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun owners
in =C2-Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal
=C2-firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program cos ting
=C2-Australia =C2-taxpayers more than $500 million =C2-dollars.
The first year results are now =C2-available:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 =C2-percent;
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 =C2-percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent =C2-(yes, 44 percent);
In the state of Victoria alone, =C2-homicides with firearms are now up 300
percent as compared with the last =C2-one year period when private owners
hip of a firearm was =C2-legal.
(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their =C2-personal firearms, the
criminal element did not and thus criminals in =C2-Australia still posses
s their guns.)
While data for the 25 =C2-years preceding the confiscation of privately ow
ned guns showed a steady =C2-decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this
has changed drastically =C2-upward in the past 12 months as criminals now
are assured their victims =C2-will be una
rmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in =C2-break-ins and assaults of t
he elderly, while the resident is at =C2-home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how =C2-public safety has
decreased, after such monumental effort and expense =C2-was expended in 's
uccessfully ridding Australian society of =C2-guns.'
This story of well intentioned government =C2-intervention in the rights o
f lawful individuals to own and possess =C2-firearms won't be seen in the
mainstream US media or on the American =C2-evening news. If President Obam
a advocates a similar confiscation in the =C2-US, there will not be any re
porting any of this to =C2-you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns =C2-in the hands of
honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, =C2-gun-control laws af
fect only the law-abiding =C2-citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too =C2-late!
FORWARD =C2-TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE =C2-SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO =C2-DOESN'T WANT TO SEE WHAT HA
PPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US =C2-!
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
=C2-
Amen!
=C2-
=C2-
Don
----- Original Message -----
=C2-
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
=C2-
=C2-
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 =C2-PM
=C2-
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing =C2-video
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
That is a good =C2-video20and that is what the new leaders in this country
are going to do there =C2-dead level best to do here.
I got an email that =C2-had a clip that said =9CA fear of weapons is
a sign of retarded sexual and =C2-emotional maturity.=9D Sigmund Fr
eud.
I have not seen gun =C2-control work in any city or country.
Jim =C2-Addington
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 =C2-PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing =C2-video
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
BETTER =C2-BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT =C2-CONCLUSION
!!!
=C2-
=C2-
The British =C2-called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co =C2-=C2-m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE =C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
This e-mail message has been scanned =C2-for Viruses and Content and clear
ed by MailMarshal
=C2-
=C2-
Which stars will =C2-make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get =C2-Hollywo
od news, celebrity photos and more with the PopEater =C2-Toolbar <http://t
oolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000027> .
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D=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
JB
What is the TBO on your engines?
Also, ethylene propylene "O" rings that are made to be used with
Skydrol, most definitely "blow up" when used with 5606 "red" fluid. I
placed one in a small pill container filled with red and left it for
four days. The ethylene propylene "O" ring increased in diameter to the
size of the pill container. No durometer test was made, however, what
difference does it make when the "O" ring is grossly oversize. So now
we know that "O" rings can't be switched either way.
Moe Mills
Proud Holder of the Golden Pedal Award
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
175kts and 35-38 gph is the reall sory (I have flow triple 2 615hours)
jb
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
Moe,
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts. I do
not need to get there is blinding speed.
I also need to go high as you know. When I had Dan Farmers 500B for a
year, she burned 30 GPH.
Taking off of Pagosa Springs at 7600' in the summer was a concern with a
single engine ceiling of 8500'.
It gets hot here in New Mexico.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
Tyler,
I suspect that the operating cost of a 680F (not pressurized) and a
680E should be close to the same, with the exception of the additional
fuel costs for the "F". The "F" (flat nacelle) should be faster than
the "E" (bathtub nacelle) but I have no idea if it will come close to
offsetting the additional fuel burn (square the horsepower to increase
the speed?).
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Tylor Hall
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
After I posted that, I thought I should have done a fact check on it.
There is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to
check it out.
=0 A
Back to helping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low pressure
hydraulics.
In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a 680E.
Moe and I had lunch the other day. Good to see him again.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
Hi Folks,
Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are
mentioned in fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a
massacre that killed 17 people.
I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this
was an absolutely =98over the top=99 reaction to a very
unfortunate incident. The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is
the estimate of number of weapons destroyed.
The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple
of tourist buses and caf=C3=A9 in Tasmania.
And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out
screwballs in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons"
wrote:
Tyler,
Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard
time finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
Regards,
Moe
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I just received this from a friend.
Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
Tylor Hall
Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available
data from Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun
owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381
personal firearms to be destroyed by our=2 0own government, a program
cos ting Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now available:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
percent);
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now
up 300 percent as compared with the last one year period when private
ownership of a firearm was legal.
(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal
firearms, the criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia
still possess their guns.)
While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of
privately owned guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with
firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as
criminals now are assured their victims will be unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and
assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was
expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
This story of well intentioned government intervention in the
rights of lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen
in the mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If
President Obama advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will
not be any reporting any of this to you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control
laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SEE
WHAT HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
Amen!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
To: commande r-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in this
country are going to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said =9CA fear of
weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=9D
Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
To: 'art la combe'
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT
CONCLUSION!!!
The British called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
<http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content
and cleared by MailMarshal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which stars will make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get
Hollywood news, celebrity photos and more with the PopEater Toolbar
<http://toolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000027
> .
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| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
I have heard that there is another hydraulic fluid being developed to
replace Skydrol which does not affect the Skydrol "O" rings, not sure
what stage it is at though.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe-rosspistons
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
JB
What is the TBO on your engines?
Also, ethylene propylene "O" rings that are made to be used with
Skydrol, most definitely "blow up" when used with 5606 "red" fluid. I
placed one in a small pill container filled with red and left it for
four days. The ethylene propylene "O" ring increased in diameter to the
size of the pill container. No durometer test was made, however, what
difference does it make when the "O" ring is grossly oversize. So now
we know that "O" rings can't be switched either way.
Moe Mills
Proud Holder of the Golden Pedal Award
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:57 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
175kts and 35-38 gph is the reall sory (I have flow triple 2 615hours)
jb
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
Moe,
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts. I
do not need to get there is blinding speed.
I also need to go high as you know. When I had Dan Farmers 500B for a
year, she burned 30 GPH.
Taking off of Pagosa Springs at 7600' in the summer was a concern with
a single engine ceiling of 8500'.
It gets hot here in New Mexico.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
Tyler,
I suspect that the operating cost of a 680F (not pressurized) and a
680E should be close to the same, with the exception of the additional
fuel costs for the "F". The "F" (flat nacelle) should be faster than
the "E" (bathtub nacelle) but I have no idea if it will come close to
offsetting the additional fuel burn (square the horsepower to increase
the speed?).
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Tylor Hall
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
After I posted that, I thought I should have done a fact check on
it.
There is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to
check it out.
=0 A
Back to helping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low
pressure hydraulics.
In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a
680E.
Moe and I had lunch the other day. Good to see him again.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
Hi Folks,
Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are
mentioned in fact were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a
massacre that killed 17 people.
I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this
was an absolutely =98over the top=99 reaction to a very
unfortunate incident. The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is
the estimate of number of weapons destroyed.
The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a
couple of tourist buses and caf=C3=A9 in Tasmania.
And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out
screwballs in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons"
wrote:
Tyler,
Thanks for posting this. I had planed to, but was having a hard
time finding it in my computer. Enjoyed having lunch with you.
Regards,
Moe
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I just received this from a friend.
Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
Tylor Hall
Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now
available data from Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months)
since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender
640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our=2 0own government, a
program cos ting Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now available:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent;
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
percent);
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are
now up 300 percent as compared with the last one year period when
private ownership of a firearm was legal.
(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal
firearms, the criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia
still possess their guns.)
While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of
privately owned guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with
firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as
criminals now are assured their victims will be unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and
assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was
expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns.'
This story of well intentioned government intervention in the
rights of lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen
in the mainstream US media or on the American evening news. If
President Obama advocates a similar confiscation in the US, there will
not be any reporting any of this to you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control
laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too late!
FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO
SEE WHAT HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US !
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
Amen!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
To: commande r-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
That is a good video and that is what the new leaders in
this country are going to do there dead level best to do here.
I got an email that had a clip that said =9CA fear of
weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.=9D
Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun control work in any city or country.
Jim Addington
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 PM
To: 'art la combe'
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
BETTER BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT
CONCLUSION!!!
The British called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
<http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE>
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
1400, but they usually will go 2000.=C2- During the Viet Namm conflict the
AF flew GSO-480s in T bones for electronic jamming.=C2- the military TBO
was 2000.=C2-=C2-I have spoken with Scott at Columbia engines (they over
hauled hundreds of those engines) and he confirmed the story was true and sa
id=C2-nearly all of the engines made it to TBO.=C2- They were flown dail
y of course and that probably helped.=C2- jb
What is the TBO on your engines?
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 6:56 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
JB
=C2-
What is the TBO on your engines?
=C2-
Also, ethylene propylene "O" rings that are made to be used with Skydrol, mo
st definitely "blow up" when used with 5606 "red" fluid.=C2- I placed one
in a small pill container filled with red and left it for four days.=C2- T
he ethylene propylene "O" ring increased in diameter to the size of the pill
container.=C2-No durometer test was made, however, what difference does i
t make when the "O" ring is grossly oversize. =C2-So now we know that "O"
rings can't be switched either way.
=C2-
Moe Mills
Proud Holder of the Golden Pedal Award
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
175kts and 35-38 gph is the reall sory (I have flow triple 2 615hours)=C2
- jb
I have been tol
d that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
Moe,
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts. =C2-I d
o not need to get there is blinding speed.
I also need to go high as you know. =C2-When I had Dan Farmers 500B for a
year, she burned 30 GPH.
Taking off of Pagosa Springs at 7600' in the summer was a concern with a sin
gle engine=C2-ceiling=C2-of 8500'.
It gets hot here in New Mexico. =C2-
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
Tyler,
=C2-
I suspect that the operating cost of a 680F (not pressurized)=C2-and a 680
E should be close to the same, with the exception of the additional fuel cos
ts for the "F".=C2- The "F" (flat nacelle) should be faster than the "E" (
bathtub nacelle) but I have no idea if it will come close to offsetting the
additional fuel burn (square the horsepower to increase the speed?).
=C2-
Regards,
=C2-
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Tylor Hall
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
After I posted that, I thought I should have done a fact check on it.
There is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to20check
it out.
=0 A
Back to helping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low pressure hydra
ulics.
In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a 680E.
Moe and I had lunch the other day. =C2-Good to see him again.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
Hi Folks,
Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are mentioned in f
act were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a massacre that killed 17 p
eople.
I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this was an abs
olutely =98over the top=99 reaction to a very unfortunate incide
nt. The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate of number o
f weapons destroyed.
The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple of tour
ist buses and caf=C3=A9 in Tasmania.
And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out screwballs
in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons" wrote:
Tyler,
Thanks for posting this. =C2-I had planed to, but was having a hard time f
inding it in my computer. =C2-Enjoyed having lunch with you.
Regards,
Moe
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> =C2-
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I just received this from a friend.
Can this=2
0be confirmed by our friends down under?
Tylor Hall
=C2-=C2-
=C2-Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your =C2-hearts
From: =C2-=C2-=C2-Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I =C2-thought you all would like to see the now available data f
rom Down =C2-Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun owners
in =C2-Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal
=C2-firearms to be destroyed by our=2 0own government, a program cos tin
g =C2-Australia =C2-taxpayers more than $500 million =C2-dollars.
The first year results are now =C2-available:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 =C2-percent;
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 =C2-percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent =C2-(yes, 44 percent);
In the state of Victoria alone, =C2-homicides with firearms are now up 300
percent as compared with the last =C2-one year period when private owners
hip of a firearm was =C2-legal.
(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their =C2-personal firearms, the
criminal element did not and thus criminals in =C2-Australia still posses
s their guns.)
While data for the 25 =C2-years preceding the confiscation of privately ow
ned guns showed a steady =C2-decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this
has changed drastically =C2-upward in the past 12 months as criminals now
are assured their victims =C2-will be unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in =C2-break-ins and assaults of t
h
e elderly, while the resident is at =C2-home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how =C2-public safety has
decreased, after such monumental effort and expense =C2-was expended in 's
uccessfully ridding Australian society of =C2-guns.'
This story of well intentioned government =C2-intervention in the rights o
f lawful individuals to own and possess =C2-firearms won't be seen in the
mainstream US media or on the American =C2-evening news. If President Obam
a advocates a similar confiscation in the =C2-US, there will not be any re
porting any of this to =C2-you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns =C2-in the hands of
honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, =C2-gun-control laws af
fect only the law-abiding =C2-citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too =C2-late!
FORWARD =C2-TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE =C2-SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO =C2-DOESN'T WANT TO SEE WHAT HA
PPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US =C2-!
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
=C2-
Amen!
=C2-
=C2-
Don
----- Original Message -----
=C2-
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
=C2-
=C2-
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 =C2-PM
=C2-
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing =C2-video
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
That is a good =C2-video and that is what the new leaders in this country
are going to do there =C2-dea
d level best to do here.
I got an email that =C2-had a clip that said =9CA fear of weapons is
a sign of retarded sexual and =C2-emotional maturity.=9D Sigmund Fr
eud.
I have not seen gun =C2-control work in any city or country.
Jim =C2-Addington
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 =C2-PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing =C2-video
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
BETTER =C2-BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT =C2-CONCLUSION
!!!
=C2-
=C2-
The British =C2-called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co =C2-=C2-m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE =C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
This e-mail message has been scanned =C2-for Viruses and Content and clear
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=C2-
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Amazing video |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
They completely jam the=C2-component.=C2- Retract cylinders wont (retrac
t), brake valeve wont (brake)=C2-everything completely stops working!!!!
=C2- The problem with converting (I am told) is that it takes only a very
=C2-small amount of reidual=C2-skdrol to swell the "O" rings and gum up
the works.=C2- jb
No durometer test was made, however, what difference does it make when the "
O" ring is grossly oversize.
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 6:56 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
JB
=C2-
What is the TBO on your engines?
=C2-
Also, ethylene propylene "O" rings that are made to be used with Skydrol, mo
st definitely "blow up" when used with 5606 "red" fluid.=C2- I placed one
in a small pill container filled with red and left it for four days.=C2- T
he ethylene propylene "O" ring increased in diameter to the size of the pill
container.=C2-No durometer test was made, however, what difference does i
t make when the "O" ring is grossly oversize. =C2-So now we know that "O"
rings can't be switched either way.
=C2-
Moe Mills
Proud Holder of the Golden Pedal Award
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
175kts and 35-38 gph is the reall sory (I have flow triple 2 615hours)=C2
- jb
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 17
0-190 kts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
Moe,
I have been told that the 680E will burn 30-32 GPH at 170-190 kts. =C2-I d
o not need to get there is blinding speed.
I also need to go high as you know. =C2-When I had Dan Farmers 500B for a
year, she burned 30 GPH.
Taking off of Pagosa Springs at 7600' in the summer was a concern with a sin
gle engine=C2-ceiling=C2-of 8500'.
It gets hot here in New Mexico. =C2-
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote:
Tyler,
=C2-
I suspect that the operating cost of a 680F (not pressurized)=C2-and a 680
E should be close to the same, with the exception of the additional fuel cos
ts for the "F".=C2- The "F" (flat nacelle) should be faster than the "E" (
bathtub nacelle) but I have no idea if it will come close to offsetting the
additional fuel burn (square the horsepower to increase the speed?).
=C2-
Regards,
=C2-
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Tylor Hall
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
After I posted that, I thought I should have done a fact check on it.
There is a lot of stuff going around that is not true and we need to check i
t out.
=0 A
Back to he
lping Moe convert his 680FP and Tom's 680FLP to low pressure hydraulics.
In light of the cost of operation, I am back to thinking about a 680E.
Moe and I had lunch the other day. =C2-Good to see him again.
Tylor Hall
On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Russell Legg wrote:
Hi Folks,
Caution...this email is a fake. The gun control laws that are mentioned in f
act were introduced in 1997 (11 years ago) after a massacre that killed 17 p
eople.
I cannot vouch for the figures quoted but would confirm that this was an abs
olutely =98over the top=99 reaction to a very unfortunate incide
nt. The cost to tax payers is probably close, as is the estimate of number o
f weapons destroyed.
The incident was committed by a lone screwball who targeted a couple of tour
ist buses and caf=C3=A9 in Tasmania.
And so the more important question relates to how we can rub out screwballs
in our society before they take their 5 seconds of limelight.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 31/1/09 3:46 AM, "Moe-rosspistons" wrote:
Tyler,
Thanks for posting this. =C2-I had planed to, but was having a hard time f
inding it in my computer. =C2-Enjoyed having lunch with you.
Regards,
Moe
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> =C2-
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Amazing video
I just received this from a friend.
Can this be confirmed by our friends down under?
Tylo
r Hall
=C2-=C2-
=C2-Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your =C2-hearts
From: =C2-=C2-=C2-Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I =C2-thought you all would like to see the now available data f
rom Down =C2-Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun owners
in =C2-Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal
=C2-firearms to be destroyed by our=2 0own government, a program cos tin
g =C2-Australia =C2-taxpayers more than $500 million =C2-dollars.
The first year results are now =C2-available:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 =C2-percent;
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 =C2-percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent =C2-(yes, 44 percent);
In the state of Victoria alone, =C2-homicides with firearms are now up 300
percent as compared with the last =C2-one year period when private owners
hip of a firearm was =C2-legal.
(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their =C2-personal firearms, the
criminal element did not and thus criminals in =C2-Australia still posses
s their guns.)
While data for the 25 =C2-years preceding the confiscation of privately ow
ned guns showed a steady =C2-decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this
has changed drastically =C2-upward in the past 12 months as criminals now
are assured their victims =C2-will be unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in =C2-break-ins and assaults of t
he elderly, while the resident is at =C2-hom
e.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how =C2-public safety has
decreased, after such monumental effort and expense =C2-was expended in 's
uccessfully ridding Australian society of =C2-guns.'
This story of well intentioned government =C2-intervention in the rights o
f lawful individuals to own and possess =C2-firearms won't be seen in the
mainstream US media or on the American =C2-evening news. If President Obam
a advocates a similar confiscation in the =C2-US, there will not be any re
porting any of this to =C2-you.
But, the Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns =C2-in the hands of
honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, =C2-gun-control laws af
fect only the law-abiding =C2-citizens.
Americans may want to take note before it's too =C2-late!
FORWARD =C2-TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST.
DON'T BE A MEMBER OF THE =C2-SILENT MAJORITY.
BE A PARTICIPANT IN THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO =C2-DOESN'T WANT TO SEE WHAT HA
PPENED IN AUSTRALIA HAPPEN IN THE US =C2-!
On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:47 PM, dongirod wrote:
=C2-
Amen!
=C2-
=C2-
Don
----- Original Message -----
=C2-
From: Jim Addington <mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
=C2-
=C2-
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:16 =C2-PM
=C2-
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Amazing =C2-video
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
That is a good =C2-video and that is what the new leaders in this country
are going to do there =C2-dead level best to do here.
I got an emai
l that =C2-had a clip that said =9CA fear of weapons is a sign of re
tarded sexual and =C2-emotional maturity.=9D Sigmund Freud.
I have not seen gun =C2-control work in any city or country.
Jim =C2-Addington
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:59 =C2-PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Amazing =C2-video
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
BETTER =C2-BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6 - VERY BLUNT =C2-CONCLUSION
!!!
=C2-
=C2-
The British =C2-called - They want their rights back!
http://au.youtube.co =C2-=C2-m:80/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE =C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
This e-mail message has been scanned =C2-for Viruses and Content and clear
ed by MailMarshal
=C2-
=C2-
Which stars will =C2-make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get =C2-Hollywo
od news, celebrity photos and more with the PopEater =C2-Toolbar <http://t
oolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000027> .
=C2-
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==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | 1970 500S for sale |
All,
I still have for sale my 1970 500S that I maintained and flew for 4
years and 1000 hours. If any interest, e-mail me at
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net and I'll send a spec sheet and some photos.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Crash in Buffalo |
We don't know exactly what happened to that flight, but from the
information trickling out of the press conferences and the news media,
one may conclude that the plane violently rolled over when the flaps
were lowered. It appears to be a full roll because the wreck was found
in a flat position (belly down) almost in the opposite direction of the
flight, which makes one think that it rolled and yawed when the flaps
deployed unevenly.
Some years ago I read about the dangers of lowering or raising the flaps
during severe ice buildup for this exact reason. Sad chain of events,
though.
We hold those who mourn in our thoughts and prayers.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crash in Buffalo |
Nico,
I know very little about that airplane, but I would think it would have
some kind of flap asymmetry built into it, everything I flew
commercially did. I am just speculating but was thinking that maybe due
to ice it stalled out, they are now reporting it basically pancaked in
flat not nosed in as previously reported and that the stall warning and
stick pusher were going off.
But it does makes us aware of how fragile life is, they are in my
prayers.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:17 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
We don't know exactly what happened to that flight, but from the
information trickling out of the press conferences and the news media,
one may conclude that the plane violently rolled over when the flaps
were lowered. It appears to be a full roll because the wreck was found
in a flat position (belly down) almost in the opposite direction of the
flight, which makes one think that it rolled and yawed when the flaps
deployed unevenly.
Some years ago I read about the dangers of lowering or raising the
flaps during severe ice buildup for this exact reason. Sad chain of
events, though.
We hold those who mourn in our thoughts and prayers.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
| Subject: | Crash in Buffalo |
Don/Nico-
Assymetry protection is a requirement in transport category airplanes,
and the Dash uses a torque tube like most all turboprops to prevent the
condition. You=99d have to snap that tube or bend the entire wing
box to get that condition.
I=99ve got a few thousand hours flying turboprops and probably
more than 100 approaches into KBUF- about half in crap weather.
I=99ve never seen ice build more quickly on an airframe in any
other location. When the ice overwhelms the heated windshield- it is
extreme. I saw this happen twice, both on flights into/out of KBUF- and
both for me were in daylight so we were able to rapidly assess the
seriousness of our condition. From the media and NTSB reports- it seems
this crew saw just such a phenomenon- and was in the process of
assessing it when cleared for the approach.
There is a fantastic NASA video that discusses tail-plane stalls on
account of icing. (I couldn=99t find it in a quick search-
I=99ll keep looking, as the lessons imparted easily apply to
commander pilots) At our line, we were required to watch this
video as part of our training- and it gives some fantastic data on how
to detect and manage an incipient tail-plane stall condition on account
of ice. One lesson you take away from this video is that if you attempt
to treat a tail-plane stall the way you would a wing stall, you will
lose control of the airplane.
This has left me wondering if the crew induced a wing stall attempting
to combat the tail-plane stall, and in doing so spun the airplane. As
you guys no doubt know- there are a couple of places in spin rotation,
especially for larger wing aircraft where the body angle will be nearly
level.
This crew had very little margin for error- and it seems they were only
just becoming aware of the danger when events overcame their best
efforts. Makes you shudder to wonder how close some of us have been to
this exact scenario but through luck or providence were able to come out
the other end.
The Dash is a heck of an ice carrier- so these conditions must have been
truly unusual.
Be careful out there, guys.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
Nico,
I know very little about that airplane, but I would think it would have
some kind of flap asymmetry built into it, everything I flew
commercially did. I am just speculating but was thinking that maybe due
to ice it stalled out, they are now reporting it basically pancaked in
flat not nosed in as previously reported and that the stall warning and
stick pusher were going off.
But it does makes us aware of how fragile life is, they are in my
prayers.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:17 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
We don't know exactly what happened to that flight, but from the
information trickling out of the press conferences and the news media,
one may conclude that the plane violently rolled over when the flaps
were lowered. It appears to be a full roll because the wreck was found
in a flat position (belly down) almost in the opposite direction of the
flight, which makes one think that it rolled and yawed when the flaps
deployed unevenly.
Some years ago I read about the dangers of lowering or raising the flaps
during severe ice buildup for this exact reason. Sad chain of events,
though.
We hold those who mourn in our thoughts and prayers.
Nico
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crash in Buffalo |
| From: | "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com> |
It's a scary video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946
The ice warning placard in the 680fl(p) reminded me of this video every
time I saw it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
Don/Nico-
Assymetry protection is a requirement in transport category airplanes,
and the Dash uses a torque tube like most all turboprops to prevent the
condition. You'd have to snap that tube or bend the entire wing box to
get that condition.
I've got a few thousand hours flying turboprops and probably more than
100 approaches into KBUF- about half in crap weather. I've never seen
ice build more quickly on an airframe in any other location. When the
ice overwhelms the heated windshield- it is extreme. I saw this happen
twice, both on flights into/out of KBUF- and both for me were in
daylight so we were able to rapidly assess the seriousness of our
condition. From the media and NTSB reports- it seems this crew saw just
such a phenomenon- and was in the process of assessing it when cleared
for the approach.
There is a fantastic NASA video that discusses tail-plane stalls on
account of icing. (I couldn't find it in a quick search- I'll keep
looking, as the lessons imparted easily apply to commander pilots.) At
our line, we were required to watch this video as part of our training-
and it gives some fantastic data on how to detect and manage an
incipient tail-plane stall condition on account of ice. One lesson you
take away from this video is that if you attempt to treat a tail-plane
stall the way you would a wing stall, you will lose control of the
airplane.
This has left me wondering if the crew induced a wing stall attempting
to combat the tail-plane stall, and in doing so spun the airplane. As
you guys no doubt know- there are a couple of places in spin rotation,
especially for larger wing aircraft where the body angle will be nearly
level.
This crew had very little margin for error- and it seems they were only
just becoming aware of the danger when events overcame their best
efforts. Makes you shudder to wonder how close some of us have been to
this exact scenario but through luck or providence were able to come out
the other end.
The Dash is a heck of an ice carrier- so these conditions must have been
truly unusual.
Be careful out there, guys.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
Nico,
I know very little about that airplane, but I would think it would have
some kind of flap asymmetry built into it, everything I flew
commercially did. I am just speculating but was thinking that maybe due
to ice it stalled out, they are now reporting it basically pancaked in
flat not nosed in as previously reported and that the stall warning and
stick pusher were going off.
But it does makes us aware of how fragile life is, they are in my
prayers.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:17 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
We don't know exactly what happened to that flight, but from the
information trickling out of the press conferences and the news media,
one may conclude that the plane violently rolled over when the flaps
were lowered. It appears to be a full roll because the wreck was found
in a flat position (belly down) almost in the opposite direction of the
flight, which makes one think that it rolled and yawed when the flaps
deployed unevenly.
Some years ago I read about the dangers of lowering or raising the flaps
during severe ice buildup for this exact reason. Sad chain of events,
though.
We hold those who mourn in our thoughts and prayers.
Nico
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Crash in Buffalo |
Wow. That's quite a revealing video. Great learning experience. Thanks
Brock for the link.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F/N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
It's a scary video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946
The ice warning placard in the 680fl(p) reminded me of this video every time
I saw it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
Don/Nico-
Assymetry protection is a requirement in transport category airplanes, and
the Dash uses a torque tube like most all turboprops to prevent the
condition. You'd have to snap that tube or bend the entire wing box to get
that condition.
I've got a few thousand hours flying turboprops and probably more than 100
approaches into KBUF- about half in crap weather. I've never seen ice build
more quickly on an airframe in any other location. When the ice overwhelms
the heated windshield- it is extreme. I saw this happen twice, both on
flights into/out of KBUF- and both for me were in daylight so we were able
to rapidly assess the seriousness of our condition. From the media and NTSB
reports- it seems this crew saw just such a phenomenon- and was in the
process of assessing it when cleared for the approach.
There is a fantastic NASA video that discusses tail-plane stalls on account
of icing. (I couldn't find it in a quick search- I'll keep looking, as the
lessons imparted easily apply to commander pilots.) At our line, we were
required to watch this video as part of our training- and it gives some
fantastic data on how to detect and manage an incipient tail-plane stall
condition on account of ice. One lesson you take away from this video is
that if you attempt to treat a tail-plane stall the way you would a wing
stall, you will lose control of the airplane.
This has left me wondering if the crew induced a wing stall attempting to
combat the tail-plane stall, and in doing so spun the airplane. As you guys
no doubt know- there are a couple of places in spin rotation, especially for
larger wing aircraft where the body angle will be nearly level.
This crew had very little margin for error- and it seems they were only just
becoming aware of the danger when events overcame their best efforts. Makes
you shudder to wonder how close some of us have been to this exact scenario
but through luck or providence were able to come out the other end.
The Dash is a heck of an ice carrier- so these conditions must have been
truly unusual.
Be careful out there, guys.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
Nico,
I know very little about that airplane, but I would think it would have some
kind of flap asymmetry built into it, everything I flew commercially did. I
am just speculating but was thinking that maybe due to ice it stalled out,
they are now reporting it basically pancaked in flat not nosed in as
previously reported and that the stall warning and stick pusher were going
off.
But it does makes us aware of how fragile life is, they are in my prayers.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:17 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
We don't know exactly what happened to that flight, but from the information
trickling out of the press conferences and the news media, one may conclude
that the plane violently rolled over when the flaps were lowered. It appears
to be a full roll because the wreck was found in a flat position (belly
down) almost in the opposite direction of the flight, which makes one think
that it rolled and yawed when the flaps deployed unevenly.
Some years ago I read about the dangers of lowering or raising the flaps
during severe ice buildup for this exact reason. Sad chain of events,
though.
We hold those who mourn in our thoughts and prayers.
Nico
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nancy Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Crash in Buffalo |
Very informative!! I sent it to all of my EAA members and pilot friends.
Thanks much=2C
Roland Gilliam AC 500 6291B
> From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: R
E: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo> Date: Sun=2C 15 Feb 2009 14:20:13 -080
r(at)charter.net>> > Wow. That's quite a revealing video. Great learning exper
ience. Thanks> Brock for the link.> > Randy Dettmer=2C AIA> 680F/N6253X> >
Dettmer Architecture> 663 Hill Street> San Luis Obispo=2C CA 93405> 805 541
4864 / Fax 805 541 4865> www.dettmerarchitecture.com> > -----Original Mess
age-----> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-co
mmander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber> Sent: Sunday
=2C February 15=2C 2009 1:35 PM> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com> Subject:
RE: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo> > > It's a scary video:> http://vide
o.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946> > The ice warning placa
rd in the 680fl(p) reminded me of this video every time> I saw it.> > -----
Original Message-----> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on b
ehalf of Robert S.> Randazzo> Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 11:04 PM> To: commander-l
ist(at)matronics.com> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo> > Don/Nic
o-> > > > Assymetry protection is a requirement in transport category airpl
anes=2C and> the Dash uses a torque tube like most all turboprops to preven
t the> condition. You'd have to snap that tube or bend the entire wing box
to get> that condition.> > > > I've got a few thousand hours flying turbopr
ops and probably more than 100> approaches into KBUF- about half in crap we
ather. I've never seen ice build> more quickly on an airframe in any other
location. When the ice overwhelms> the heated windshield- it is extreme. I
saw this happen twice=2C both on> flights into/out of KBUF- and both for me
were in daylight so we were able> to rapidly assess the seriousness of our
condition. From the media and NTSB> reports- it seems this crew saw just s
uch a phenomenon- and was in the> process of assessing it when cleared for
the approach.> > > > There is a fantastic NASA video that discusses tail-pl
ane stalls on account> of icing. (I couldn't find it in a quick search- I'l
l keep looking=2C as the> lessons imparted easily apply to commander pilots
.) At our line=2C we were> required to watch this video as part of our trai
ning- and it gives some> fantastic data on how to detect and manage an inci
pient tail-plane stall> condition on account of ice. One lesson you take aw
ay from this video is> that if you attempt to treat a tail-plane stall the
way you would a wing> stall=2C you will lose control of the airplane.> > >
> This has left me wondering if the crew induced a wing stall attempting to
> combat the tail-plane stall=2C and in doing so spun the airplane. As you
guys> no doubt know- there are a couple of places in spin rotation=2C espec
ially for> larger wing aircraft where the body angle will be nearly level.>
> > > This crew had very little margin for error- and it seems they were o
nly just> becoming aware of the danger when events overcame their best effo
rts. Makes> you shudder to wonder how close some of us have been to this ex
act scenario> but through luck or providence were able to come out the othe
r end.> > > > The Dash is a heck of an ice carrier- so these conditions mus
t have been> truly unusual. > > > > Be careful out there=2C guys.> > > > Ro
bert S. Randazzo> > N414C> > > > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronic
s.com> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dong
irod> Sent: Saturday=2C February 14=2C 2009 10:18 PM> To: commander-list@ma
tronics.com> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo> > > > Nico=2C >
> > > I know very little about that airplane=2C but I would think it would
have some> kind of flap asymmetry built into it=2C everything I flew comme
rcially did. I> am just speculating but was thinking that maybe due to ice
it stalled out=2C> they are now reporting it basically pancaked in flat not
nosed in as> previously reported and that the stall warning and stick push
er were going> off.> > > > But it does makes us aware of how fragile life i
s=2C they are in my prayers.> > > > Don> > ----- Original Message ----- > >
From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> > > To: commander-list@ma
tronics.com > > Sent: Sunday=2C February 15=2C 2009 12:17 AM> > Subject: Co
mmander-List: Crash in Buffalo> > > > We don't know exactly what happened t
o that flight=2C but from the information> trickling out of the press confe
rences and the news media=2C one may conclude> that the plane violently rol
led over when the flaps were lowered. It appears> to be a full roll because
the wreck was found in a flat position (belly> down) almost in the opposit
e direction of the flight=2C which makes one think> that it rolled and yawe
d when the flaps deployed unevenly.> > > > Some years ago I read about the
dangers of lowering or raising the flaps> during severe ice buildup for thi
s exact reason. Sad chain of events=2C> though.> > > > We hold those who mo
urn in our thoughts and prayers. > > > > Nico> > > > > > > > href="http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic> s.com/Nav
igator?Commander-List> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m
atronics.com> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat
========================> _
==> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crash in Buffalo |
Hi All,
John Towner is not able to post messages on the chatlist, but can read
the postings.
He has said it's OK to pass on the following:
"When we did our TKS icing certification on our Commanders in 1993-94
FAA engineering had us do "tailplane stall analysis". To explain, the
FAA has an internal "memorandum" on the subject and basically there have
been many "tailplane stall" accidents over the years (the most notable
that probably everyone remembers was the ATR commuter accident going
into ORD). Basically "KIS" trying to keep it simple what happens with
t-tail aircraft when there is just a very small trace of ice on the
horizontal tail and the aircraft is descending as it levels off the
horizontal tail will stall, the aircraft will pitch down and the pilot/s
will pull back and this aggravates the situation and the tail will stall
and everyone knows what happens next. Most "tailplane stall" accidents
occur when the aircraft is descending and levels off say at the initial
approach outside the final approach fix or when the flaps are lowered.
In the ORD accident the ATR was descending from 10,000 to 8,000 and lost
control of the aircraft in the level off and without speculating this
probably happened in Buffalo Friday. After the ORD accident my friends
at FAA engineering contacted me they were considering a TKS strip for
the horizontal tail, the ATR has a pneumatic boot on the horizontal
tail). I remember when I flew our Lear 23 (it did not have ice
protection on the horizontal stab and we could get "tailplane stall" in
just the right conditions, the later Lears 24/25 series did have heated
horizontal stabs) Just to let all of the Commander pilots know when we
did "tailplane stall analysis" on the Commander it really did well, the
FAA had us put pretend ice shapes on the horizontal tail and then we had
to do zero G push overs and we could not get the Commander tail to
stall. To summarize the best thing is to stay out of the ice, the worse
ice I have ever been in was not forecast, ice on the wing is not a big
deal, most aircraft can carry a good amount of wing ice, the killer ice
forms on the bottom side of the wing and the real killer ice is the ice
that forms on the horizontal tail of a t-tail aircraft. Take care and
fly safe."
Thanks John!
Best Regards,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crash in Buffalo |
Wouldn't it be safer to land without flaps when in doubt and deal with
decelerating the aircraft once (safely) on the ground?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
It's a scary video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946
The ice warning placard in the 680fl(p) reminded me of this video every time
I saw it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
Don/Nico-
Assymetry protection is a requirement in transport category airplanes, and
the Dash uses a torque tube like most all turboprops to prevent the
condition. You'd have to snap that tube or bend the entire wing box to get
that condition.
I've got a few thousand hours flying turboprops and probably more than 100
approaches into KBUF- about half in crap weather. I've never seen ice build
more quickly on an airframe in any other location. When the ice overwhelms
the heated windshield- it is extreme. I saw this happen twice, both on
flights into/out of KBUF- and both for me were in daylight so we were able
to rapidly assess the seriousness of our condition. From the media and NTSB
reports- it seems this crew saw just such a phenomenon- and was in the
process of assessing it when cleared for the approach.
There is a fantastic NASA video that discusses tail-plane stalls on account
of icing. (I couldn't find it in a quick search- I'll keep looking, as the
lessons imparted easily apply to commander pilots.) At our line, we were
required to watch this video as part of our training- and it gives some
fantastic data on how to detect and manage an incipient tail-plane stall
condition on account of ice. One lesson you take away from this video is
that if you attempt to treat a tail-plane stall the way you would a wing
stall, you will lose control of the airplane.
This has left me wondering if the crew induced a wing stall attempting to
combat the tail-plane stall, and in doing so spun the airplane. As you guys
no doubt know- there are a couple of places in spin rotation, especially for
larger wing aircraft where the body angle will be nearly level.
This crew had very little margin for error- and it seems they were only just
becoming aware of the danger when events overcame their best efforts. Makes
you shudder to wonder how close some of us have been to this exact scenario
but through luck or providence were able to come out the other end.
The Dash is a heck of an ice carrier- so these conditions must have been
truly unusual.
Be careful out there, guys.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
Nico,
I know very little about that airplane, but I would think it would have some
kind of flap asymmetry built into it, everything I flew commercially did. I
am just speculating but was thinking that maybe due to ice it stalled out,
they are now reporting it basically pancaked in flat not nosed in as
previously reported and that the stall warning and stick pusher were going
off.
But it does makes us aware of how fragile life is, they are in my prayers.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:17 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
We don't know exactly what happened to that flight, but from the information
trickling out of the press conferences and the news media, one may conclude
that the plane violently rolled over when the flaps were lowered. It appears
to be a full roll because the wreck was found in a flat position (belly
down) almost in the opposite direction of the flight, which makes one think
that it rolled and yawed when the flaps deployed unevenly.
Some years ago I read about the dangers of lowering or raising the flaps
during severe ice buildup for this exact reason. Sad chain of events,
though.
We hold those who mourn in our thoughts and prayers.
Nico
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crash in Buffalo |
| From: | Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
I'd say yes - it sounds like they had the a/p on - in my turbocommander 681,
it once tried to hold me on the ils glideslope when I had the power back and
fortunately I killed it with the red button and added power just inside the
outer marker (and pushed the nose down- no problem)- no ice issues, but the
autopilot is stupid sometimes at the wrong time. nothing wrong with landing
hot - I'd rather go off the end at 25 mph than pancake in at stall speed off
the end of the runway. I'm not an airline pilot but I get the impression
many are trained by the company book "thou shall and shall not".....
bobf
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 6:44 PM, nico css wrote:
> >
>
> Wouldn't it be safer to land without flaps when in doubt and deal with
> decelerating the aircraft once (safely) on the ground?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brock Lorber" <
> blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 1:35 PM
>
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
>
>
> It's a scary video:
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946
>
> The ice warning placard in the 680fl(p) reminded me of this video every
> time I saw it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert S.
> Randazzo
> Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 11:04 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
>
> Don/Nico-
>
>
> Assymetry protection is a requirement in transport category airplanes, and
> the Dash uses a torque tube like most all turboprops to prevent the
> condition. You'd have to snap that tube or bend the entire wing box to get
> that condition.
>
>
> I've got a few thousand hours flying turboprops and probably more than 100
> approaches into KBUF- about half in crap weather. I've never seen ice build
> more quickly on an airframe in any other location. When the ice overwhelms
> the heated windshield- it is extreme. I saw this happen twice, both on
> flights into/out of KBUF- and both for me were in daylight so we were able
> to rapidly assess the seriousness of our condition. From the media and NTSB
> reports- it seems this crew saw just such a phenomenon- and was in the
> process of assessing it when cleared for the approach.
>
>
> There is a fantastic NASA video that discusses tail-plane stalls on account
> of icing. (I couldn't find it in a quick search- I'll keep looking, as the
> lessons imparted easily apply to commander pilots.) At our line, we were
> required to watch this video as part of our training- and it gives some
> fantastic data on how to detect and manage an incipient tail-plane stall
> condition on account of ice. One lesson you take away from this video is
> that if you attempt to treat a tail-plane stall the way you would a wing
> stall, you will lose control of the airplane.
>
>
> This has left me wondering if the crew induced a wing stall attempting to
> combat the tail-plane stall, and in doing so spun the airplane. As you guys
> no doubt know- there are a couple of places in spin rotation, especially for
> larger wing aircraft where the body angle will be nearly level.
>
>
> This crew had very little margin for error- and it seems they were only
> just becoming aware of the danger when events overcame their best efforts.
> Makes you shudder to wonder how close some of us have been to this exact
> scenario but through luck or providence were able to come out the other end.
>
>
> The Dash is a heck of an ice carrier- so these conditions must have been
> truly unusual.
>
>
> Be careful out there, guys.
>
>
> Robert S. Randazzo
>
> N414C
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:18 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
>
>
> Nico,
>
>
> I know very little about that airplane, but I would think it would have
> some kind of flap asymmetry built into it, everything I flew commercially
> did. I am just speculating but was thinking that maybe due to ice it
> stalled out, they are now reporting it basically pancaked in flat not nosed
> in as previously reported and that the stall warning and stick pusher were
> going off.
>
>
> But it does makes us aware of how fragile life is, they are in my prayers.
>
>
> Don
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:17 AM
>
> Subject: Commander-List: Crash in Buffalo
>
>
> We don't know exactly what happened to that flight, but from the
> information trickling out of the press conferences and the news media, one
> may conclude that the plane violently rolled over when the flaps were
> lowered. It appears to be a full roll because the wreck was found in a flat
> position (belly down) almost in the opposite direction of the flight, which
> makes one think that it rolled and yawed when the flaps deployed unevenly.
>
>
> Some years ago I read about the dangers of lowering or raising the flaps
> during severe ice buildup for this exact reason. Sad chain of events,
> though.
>
>
> We hold those who mourn in our thoughts and prayers.
>
>
> Nico
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: [Fwd: the day Paul Newman died MUST READ |
--- On Mon, 2/16/09, D.R. Buffington wrote:
From: D.R. Buffington <d.r.buffington(at)mac.com>
Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: the day Paul Newman died
Cc: "John Gregory" , "Don Irwin" ,
"Harper Goodwin" , "Bruce Ott" , "Mike Buffington" , "Cal Moreland" <
calmoreland(at)charter.net>, "Robert Buffington" ,
"Lynn Buffington" , "Bob Graver" , "Dan Farmer" , "Norman Auger" , "Jeff Randolph" , "Ray Seymour" , "Debra Valtman" , "Terry Heizenrader"
Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 6:53 AM
Dave-
=0A
=0A-------- Original Message --------=0A=0A =0A =0A Subject: =0A
the day Paul Newman died=0A =0A =0A Date: =0A Sun, 15 F
eb 2009 23:56:35-=0A =0A=0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A You're an=0A18 or 19 year old kid. You'
re critically wounded, and dying in the=0Ajungle in the-Ia-Drang-Vall
ey-, 11-14-1965,-LZ Xray,-Vietnam-. -Your infantry unit is=0Aoutn
umbered 8 - 1, and the enemy fire is so intense, from 100 or 200=0Ayards aw
ay, that your own Infantry Commander has ordered the MediVac=0Ahelicopters
to stop coming in-.--You're=0Alying there, listening to the enemy-m
achine guns,=0Aand you know you're not getting out. Your family is 1/2 way
around the=0Aworld, 12,000 miles away, and you'll never see them again. As
the world=0Astarts to fade in and out, you know this is the day.---
=0A--
=0A--Then, over the machine gun=0Anoise, you faintly hear that sound of
a helicopter, and you look up to=0Asee an un-armed Huey, but it doesn't se
em real, because no Medi-Vac=0Amarkings are on it.---
=0A--
=0A---Ed Freeman-is coming for you. He's=0Anot Medi-Vac, so it's no
t his job, but he's flying his Huey down into=0Athemachine gun fire, after
the=0AMedi-Vacs were ordered not to come.---
=0A--
=0A -=0A-He's coming anyway.--=0AAnd he drops it in, and sits
there in the-machine=0Agun fire, as they load 2 or 3 of you on board.-
- Then he=0Aflies you up and out through the gunfire, to the Doctors and
Nurses.---
=0A--
=0A---And, he kept coming=0Aback.... 13 more times..... And took abou
t 30 of you and your buddies=0Aout, who would never have gotten out.--
-
=0A--
=0A--- --Medal=0Aof Honor Recipient Ed Freeman-died last Wednes
day at the=0Aage of 80, in Boise, ID=0A......May God rest his soul.....-
--
=0A--
=0A--- -(Oh yeah, Paul Newman=0Adied that day too. -I guess you k
new that -- He got a lot more press=0Athan Ed Freeman.)
=0A
=0A -=0A =0A =0A =0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0AA Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. =0ASee yours in just 2 easy step
s!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [Fwd: the day Paul Newman died MUST READ |
He was one of a rare breed. Very rare.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:43 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: [Fwd: the day Paul Newman died MUST READ
--- On Mon, 2/16/09, D.R. Buffington
wrote:
From: D.R. Buffington <d.r.buffington(at)mac.com>
Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: the day Paul Newman died
To:
Cc: "John Gregory" , "Don Irwin"
, "Harper Goodwin" , "Bruce
Ott" , "Mike Buffington"
, "Cal Moreland"
, "Robert Buffington"
, "Lynn Buffington" ,
"Bob Graver" , "Dan Farmer"
, "Norman Auger" , "Jeff
Randolph" , "Ray Seymour" ,
"Debra Valtman" , "Terry Heizenrader"
Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 6:53 AM
Dave
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: the day Paul
Newman died
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:56:35
You're an 18 or 19 year old kid. You're critically
wounded, and dying in the jungle in the Ia Drang Valley , 11-14-1965, LZ
Xray, Vietnam . Your infantry unit is outnumbered 8 - 1, and the enemy
fire is so intense, from 100 or 200 yards away, that your own Infantry
Commander has ordered the MediVac helicopters to stop coming in .
You're lying there, listening to the enemy machine guns, and you know
you're not getting out. Your family is 1/2 way around the world, 12,000
miles away, and you'll never see them again. As the world starts to fade
in and out, you know this is the day.
Then, over the machine gun noise, you faintly hear
that sound of a helicopter, and you look up to see an un-armed Huey, but
it doesn't seem real, because no Medi-Vac markings are on it.
Ed Freeman is coming for you. He's not Medi-Vac, so
it's not his job, but he's flying his Huey down into themachine gun
fire, after the Medi-Vacs were ordered not to come.
He's coming anyway. And he drops it in, and sits
there in the machine gun fire, as they load 2 or 3 of you on board.
Then he flies you up and out through the gunfire, to the Doctors and
Nurses.
And, he kept coming back.... 13 more times..... And
took about 30 of you and your buddies out, who would never have gotten
out.
Medal of Honor Recipient Ed Freeman died last
Wednesday at the age of 80, in Boise, ID ......May God rest his
soul.....
(Oh yeah, Paul Newman died that day too. I guess
you knew that -- He got a lot more press than Ed Freeman.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
easy steps!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
Bert, that information would be very helpful if you can send it. I am also
wanting to fly with the baggage door removed.
Thanks
Bill Leff
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
The JPEGS would be interesting to see. Was the approval based on a US STC?
Bill Leff
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I think I have dropped of the list, how do I get back on?
Jim Addington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
I got your message, which means you must be on, Jim.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington
To: Jim Addington
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:43 PM
Subject: Commander-List:
I think I have dropped of the list, how do I get back on?
Jim Addington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
Jim & Everyone,
I received your post so you must be OK. Currently I am able to reply to
posts that someone else made, however, I can not make a new post. Every
time that I send something to commader-list(at)matronics.com it gets sent
back to me. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Also, JB do you have any idea when our annual fly in will be this fall?
It seems that since retirement a lot more advanced planning must be done
on my part.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Jim Addington
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:43 PM
Subject: Commander-List:
I think I have dropped of the list, how do I get back on?
Jim Addington
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Moe,
Your posting came through to me OK.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe-rosspistons
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Jim & Everyone,
I received your post so you must be OK. Currently I am able to reply
to posts that someone else made, however, I can not make a new post.
Every time that I send something to commader-list(at)matronics.com it gets
sent back to me. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Also, JB do you have any idea when our annual fly in will be this
fall? It seems that since retirement a lot more advanced planning must
be done on my part.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Jim Addington
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:43 PM
To: Jim Addington
Subject: Commander-List:
I think I have dropped of the list, how do I get back on?
Jim Addington
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
df
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
Dan,
You know that you can get a range of antiseptic creams to get rid of THRUSH.
Man are you going into the crop dusting business?
All you need to do now is fall in love with the ground, the hard stuff that
you used to look down on .
Hope you and Theresa are well.
Cheers
Rich & Jax
PS just messing around with 7500 lbs of paperwork. Hoped to have the 680E
flying this week but will have to wait until we get back from mommies 80th
birthday celebrations in S Africa. Man it's a long way to go for a week.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 4:54 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Thrush S2R
df
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CATHERINE CHAGNOT <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com> |
| Subject: | Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb |
Hi Everyone,
Anyone out there know the best place to get a Bendix PS7BD Carb
rebuilt at anything less than the cost of an entire airplane?
The quote I have so far is for around $3,500... Ouch!!!
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cate
N4278S Aero Commander 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
| Subject: | Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb |
I had mine done at Precision Engines in Everett, WA for a reasonable amount of
money (about $1500) a few years ago. They are more or less the OEM these days.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CATHERINE CHAGNOT
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb
Hi Everyone,
Anyone out there know the best place to get a Bendix PS7BD Carb
rebuilt at anything less than the cost of an entire airplane?
The quote I have so far is for around $3,500... Ouch!!!
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cate
N4278S Aero Commander 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bud Williams" <rambud(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb |
Cate,
I can't guarantee what the price will be, but I had a PS5 pressure carb
rebuilt by a guy in OK that only cost me $869, which included replacing a
diaphragm.
Email off net for more details if you are interested.
Bud
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CATHERINE
CHAGNOT
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb
Hi Everyone,
Anyone out there know the best place to get a Bendix PS7BD Carb
rebuilt at anything less than the cost of an entire airplane?
The quote I have so far is for around $3,500... Ouch!!!
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cate
N4278S Aero Commander 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" <RnJThompson(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb |
Cate,
The price of the kits are unbelievable. The only place you can get them is
from Precision Engines. They on the other hand offer an overhaul for less
money than they sell the kits for. I would send it to them. Once they are
done with the red diaphragms you should not have any grief out of them for
many years. www.precisionengines.com/pages/carburetors.html
They are complex pieces of kit. It took me at least a day per carb to strip
and reassemble the set up on the fuel rig lasted about two days per carb.
Setting them up is a painfully slow process. Each has about ten check points
on the fuel curve. I got mine to within half a pound an hour fuel flow
difference between them across the entire curve. These thing are truly
precision instruments. There are not too many people around these days who
even know what they look like, never mind knowing how to set them up.
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CATHERINE
CHAGNOT
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2009 3:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb
Hi Everyone,
Anyone out there know the best place to get a Bendix PS7BD Carb
rebuilt at anything less than the cost of an entire airplane?
The quote I have so far is for around $3,500... Ouch!!!
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cate
N4278S Aero Commander 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
| Subject: | Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb |
The other thing is they have a number of bodies, etc in case your carb has too
much wear to ever dial in. Mine had that problem and they were able to provide
a better (by no means perfect, but usable) throttle body from spares. Noone
else is going to be able to do that.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard & Jacqui Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb
Cate,
The price of the kits are unbelievable. The only place you can get them is
from Precision Engines. They on the other hand offer an overhaul for less
money than they sell the kits for. I would send it to them. Once they are
done with the red diaphragms you should not have any grief out of them for
many years. www.precisionengines.com/pages/carburetors.html
They are complex pieces of kit. It took me at least a day per carb to strip
and reassemble the set up on the fuel rig lasted about two days per carb.
Setting them up is a painfully slow process. Each has about ten check points
on the fuel curve. I got mine to within half a pound an hour fuel flow
difference between them across the entire curve. These thing are truly
precision instruments. There are not too many people around these days who
even know what they look like, never mind knowing how to set them up.
Cheers
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CATHERINE
CHAGNOT
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2009 3:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb
Hi Everyone,
Anyone out there know the best place to get a Bendix PS7BD Carb
rebuilt at anything less than the cost of an entire airplane?
The quote I have so far is for around $3,500... Ouch!!!
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cate
N4278S Aero Commander 680E
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bendix PS7BD Pressure Carb |
| From: | "Cate Chagnot" <cchagnot(at)ultimateair.com> |
Thanks Guys,
It's on its way to Precision Engines. They want about $2000 for a basic rebuild
now. There's a 10% special on at the moment. Minimum then around $1800 It sure
beats the $3500 quote I got earlier. It's a spare that came with the 2 core
engines I tracked down for the plane. When it comes back I'll send out the one
on the plane now and hopefully should be in good shape.
Cate
N4278S Aero Commander 680E
--------
Cate
N4278S 680E
Skywagon N180PK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231883#231883
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/commander_panel01_602.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Go back to aerocommander.com and follow the instructions.? jb
I think I have dropped of the list, how do I get back on?
Jim Addington
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 8:43 pm
Subject: Commander-List:
I think I have dropped of the list, how do I get back on?
Jim Addington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
JB,
Do you know when the fly in will be this year?
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Go back to aerocommander.com and follow the instructions. jb
I think I have dropped of the list, how do I get back on?
Jim Addington
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 8:43 pm
Subject: Commander-List:
I think I have dropped of the list, how do I get back on?
Jim Addington
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
Hi Bill,
Last week I managed to track down the research for the arrangements that the
Department of Civil Aviation put in place, here in Australia back in 1962.
At the time they were operating 2 560Es and 2 680Es.
They conducted significant air testing of a 560E with both the baggage door
removed and the emergency exit window removed. Their aim was to enable
operations in a Search & Rescue environment.
Their conclusion was simple: Baggage door-off or window removed or both were
permitted provided a 10% reduction in AUW was achieved for take-off, and
across the operational envelope.
Hope this helps...
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 20/2/09 5:48 PM, "BillLeff1(at)aol.com" wrote:
> Bert, that information would be very helpful if you can send it. I am also
> wanting to fly with the baggage door removed.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bill Leff
>
>
> A Good Credit Score is
> 1201267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3
> Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2
> easy steps!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Shark Fin Antenna |
Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.Fellow Commander Drivers:
Typically which radio is connected to the "Shark Fin Antenna" I seem to
be having a senior moment and can't remember.
Thanx!
Moe Mills
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Russell Legg
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Hi Bill,
Last week I managed to track down the research for the arrangements that
the Department of Civil Aviation put in place, here in Australia back in
1962. At the time they were operating 2 560Es and 2 680Es.
They conducted significant air testing of a 560E with both the baggage
door removed and the emergency exit window removed. Their aim was to
enable operations in a Search & Rescue environment.
Their conclusion was simple: Baggage door-off or window removed or both
were permitted provided a 10% reduction in AUW was achieved for
take-off, and across the operational envelope.
Hope this helps...
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 20/2/09 5:48 PM, "BillLeff1(at)aol.com" wrote:
Bert, that information would be very helpful if you can send it. I am
also wanting to fly with the baggage door removed.
Thanks
Bill Leff
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
A Good Credit Score is
1201267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault
.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62"> See yours
in just 2 easy steps!
ist Email Forum -
r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shark Fin Antenna |
Good Morning Moe,
Most often a shark fin is a high speed communication antenna. They create
relatively low drag and handle ice very well.
The dual "shark fins" that are occasionally installed as a pair and oriented
horizontally are generally called Blade Antennas. They are used to receive
VHF Navigation and glideslope signals
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 2/26/2009 8:35:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com writes:
Fellow Commander Drivers:
Typically which radio is connected to the "Shark Fin Antenna" I seem to be
having a senior moment and can't remember.
Thanx!
Moe Mills
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: _Russell Legg_ (mailto:rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au)
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Hi Bill,
Last week I managed to track down the research for the arrangements that the
Department of Civil Aviation put in place, here in Australia back in 1962.
At the time they were operating 2 560Es and 2 680Es.
They conducted significant air testing of a 560E with both the baggage door
removed and the emergency exit window removed. Their aim was to enable
operations in a Search & Rescue environment.
Their conclusion was simple: Baggage door-off or window removed or both were
permitted provided a 10% reduction in AUW was achieved for take-off, and
across the operational envelope.
Hope this helps...
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 20/2/09 5:48 PM, "BillLeff1(at)aol.com" wrote:
Bert, that information would be very helpful if you can send it. I am also
wanting to fly with the baggage door removed.
Thanks
Bill Leff
____________________________________
A Good Credit Score is
1201267884/aol?redir=_http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62_
(http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=febemailfooterNO62) "> See yours in just 2 easy steps!
ist Email Forum -
r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shark Fin Antenna |
| From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
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dHJvbmljcy5jb20vYw0KDQogDQooaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9D
b21tYW5kZXItTGlzdCkgDQooaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbikg
DQogDQoNCioqKioqKioqKioqKioqQSBHb29kIENyZWRpdCBTY29yZSBpcyA3MDAgb3IgQWJvdmUu
IFNlZSB5b3VycyBpbiBqdXN0IDIgZWFzeSANCnN0ZXBzISANCiUzRDYyJTI2YmNkJTNEZmViZW1h
aWxmb290ZXJOTzYyKQ0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shark Fin Antenna |
Pretty sure both our transponders are now using the short fins.
One of them is a Garmin unit receiving data.......
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Shark Fin Antenna
Good Morning Moe,
Most often a shark fin is a high speed communication antenna. They
create relatively low drag and handle ice very well.
The dual "shark fins" that are occasionally installed as a pair and
oriented horizontally are generally called Blade Antennas. They are used
to receive VHF Navigation and glideslope signals
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 2/26/2009 8:35:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com writes:
Fellow Commander Drivers:
Typically which radio is connected to the "Shark Fin Antenna" I
seem to be having a senior moment and can't remember.
Thanx!
Moe Mills
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Russell Legg
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:42 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flying with doors removed.
Hi Bill,
Last week I managed to track down the research for the arrangements
that the Department of Civil Aviation put in place, here in Australia
back in 1962. At the time they were operating 2 560Es and 2 680Es.
They conducted significant air testing of a 560E with both the
baggage door removed and the emergency exit window removed. Their aim
was to enable operations in a Search & Rescue environment.
Their conclusion was simple: Baggage door-off or window removed or
both were permitted provided a 10% reduction in AUW was achieved for
take-off, and across the operational envelope.
Hope this helps...
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 20/2/09 5:48 PM, "BillLeff1(at)aol.com" wrote:
Bert, that information would be very helpful if you can send it. I
am also wanting to fly with the baggage door removed.
Thanks
Bill Leff
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shark Fin Antenna |
Good Morning Steve,
You are probably correct!
I had forgotten about those itty bitty "shark fin" antennas.
They are generally mounted on the belly and are used to receive data for the
transponder or DME. Some anti collision units use an additional one mounted
on the top of the fuselage.
They handle the same job as do those short (two to three inches long) wire
antennas that are so easy to break off when washing the airplane.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 2/28/2009 7:32:36 A.M. Central Standard Time,
steve2(at)sover.net writes:
Pretty sure both our transponders are now using the short fins.
One of them is a Garmin unit receiving data.......
Steve
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Guys this is amazing
Jay Leno's Garage - <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggvzcGdZsTc>
NextEngine's 3D Scanner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
That is amazing.
I can think of all kinds of small part off a TC that can be built again.
Door Handles?
Control Wheels?
Tylor Hall
On Feb 28, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Jim Addington wrote:
>
> Guys this is amazing
>
> Jay Leno's Garage - NextEngine's 3D Scanner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I had to order =BD of a rear door hinge for my 500S 3 years ago and it
cost $950.00. We didn=92t use it as it would have required dismantling
the door to replace it. My mechanic was able to weld the broken one
(for the second time) and we had to keep the hinge as the supplier
wouldn=92t take it back after the 2 weeks that we had it.
It seems that a technique such as this would be perfect for this
application. Of course it would depend on the end cost for one part.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor
Hall
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
That is amazing.
I can think of all kinds of small part off a TC that can be built again.
Door Handles?
Control Wheels?
Tylor Hall
On Feb 28, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Jim Addington wrote:
Guys this is amazing
Jay Leno's Garage - <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggvzcGdZsTc>
NextEngine's 3D Scanner
http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shark Fin Antenna |
Hi Old Bob..... Right now we've got a Mode-S transponder running with
TIS-B traffic snooping. Its completely dependent on a data uplink from
the ground..... And if I've got it right, it's using one of the little
fins to recieve that data.
ADS-B I'm a guessin' we'd have another antenna on top to cover the air
to air exchange of data we don't have now. So far TIS-B has been a nice
pair of extra eyes in the cockpit with us when working, and covers most
of the busier places we fly.
P.S. I think those little shark fins break off even easier than the
little whips do. Be careful dragging a preheater tube under the
aircraft. (That one wasn't my fault for once!)
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Shark Fin Antenna
Good Morning Steve,
You are probably correct!
I had forgotten about those itty bitty "shark fin" antennas.
They are generally mounted on the belly and are used to receive data
for the transponder or DME. Some anti collision units use an additional
one mounted on the top of the fuselage.
They handle the same job as do those short (two to three inches long)
wire antennas that are so easy to break off when washing the airplane.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 2/28/2009 7:32:36 A.M. Central Standard Time,
steve2(at)sover.net writes:
Pretty sure both our transponders are now using the short fins.
One of them is a Garmin unit receiving data.......
Steve
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I thought it was too.
Jim Addington
N444BD
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
That is amazing.
I can think of all kinds of small part off a TC that can be built again.
Door Handles?
Control Wheels?
Tylor Hall
On Feb 28, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Jim Addington wrote:
Guys this is amazing
Jay Leno's Garage - <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggvzcGdZsTc>
NextEngine's 3D Scanner
http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Hi Folks,
Mr. Leno may have given a over simplification on this process.
We used technology very similar to this to design piston domes during
the last 10 or so years that I was at Ross Racing Pistons. The
difference was that we used Giddings & Lewis coordinate measuring
machines which actually used a Ruby stylus to touch the part that was to
be duplicated (or reverse engineered) in hundreds of different spots.
These spots were digitized, and downloaded to a CAD (computer aided
design) program, processed, and then downloaded to a CNC (computer
numerical control) program which ran the FADAL vertical machining
centers. The difference between the system that Jay Leno has, is that
the scanning is done without actually touching the part that is to be
duplicated, which appears would save about thirty minutes scanning time
on a small, relatively simple part. This scanning on the G & L machines
does not require that the operator be at the machine all of the time so
you are saving machine time and not operator and machine time.
To make a one off part you still must make the holding fixture for the
part blank, install the proper cutting tools, (drills, end mills, groove
cutters, ball end mills and so fourth) into the CNC mill/and or lathe.
Our FADAL machines held about 15 to 20 tools, and since we were a one
product company and had eight of them on the floor, tool changing was
not generally an issue. However, if you only wanted to make one of
something it would be.
It is still quicker/better/easier to do some secondary operations on a $
250.00 drill press or an old Bridgeport vertical mill.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Jim Addington
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:28 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
I thought it was too.
Jim Addington
N444BD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor
Hall
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
That is amazing.
I can think of all kinds of small part off a TC that can be built again.
Door Handles?
Control Wheels?
Tylor Hall
On Feb 28, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Jim Addington wrote:
Guys this is amazing
Jay Leno's Garage - NextEngine's 3D Scanner
http://forums.matronics.comstyle="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com |
| Subject: | ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar |
Royal Grand Poopah and I traveled to Weyburn, SK, Canada to look at a Thrus
h.- That is an airplane not a rash.- The Grand Poopah loved the hinder
land sooo much that he has decided nexts years fly in will be held there.
- Only in January,- so we can get the most enjoyment out of -35 F.- Y
ou simply cannot believe how he loves cold weather.
I flew 69U to FTG Denver then drove over to DIA to pick up the Grand Poopah
as they do not like "big" planes at DIA.- Then we flew to Williston, ND
to drive to Weyburn.- The Grand Poopah and I are such a team we discussed
moving to CA and getting married.- Then we found out that "normal straig
hts" could not get married.-- Not that the Grand Poopah is normal but h
e tells me that he is straight--although he had a constant reference to a b
ar of=0A soap repair that I taught him.
He also showed me the Hoover manuver--NOT the Bob Hoover but the Hoover vac
um.- THAT MAN CAN EAT.-- The Grand Poopah really loves the Garmin 530
.- A person can not dial the knobs and push buttons fast enough to keep u
p with the request so he natuarlly got us lost.- But we recovered had a g
reat time.- I learned alot.- He learned about soap repair and hopefully
we live happily ever after.- I want to thank Mr. Jim for all his knowled
ge, all his humor and mostly Miss Sue for letting me borrow him on there an
niversary weekend.
I had a great time.
dan f
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar |
I never heard of a Thrush rash just the bird.
Some year I hope the meeting will be in Vancouver, Canada, no excessive
temperatures here, green grass year round.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com
To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:40 AM
Subject: Commander-List: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar
Royal Grand Poopah and I traveled to Weyburn, SK, Canada to look
at a Thrush. That is an airplane not a rash. The Grand Poopah loved
the hinder land sooo much that he has decided nexts years fly in will be
held there. Only in January, so we can get the most enjoyment out of
-35 F. You simply cannot believe how he loves cold weather.
I flew 69U to FTG Denver then drove over to DIA to pick up the
Grand Poopah as they do not like "big" planes at DIA. Then we flew to
Williston, ND to drive to Weyburn. The Grand Poopah and I are such a
team we discussed moving to CA and getting married. Then we found out
that "normal straights" could not get married. Not that the Grand
Poopah is normal but he tells me that he is straight--although he had a
constant reference to a bar of soap repair that I taught him.
He also showed me the Hoover manuver--NOT the Bob Hoover but the
Hoover vacum. THAT MAN CAN EAT. The Grand Poopah really loves the
Garmin 530. A person can not dial the knobs and push buttons fast
enough to keep up with the request so he natuarlly got us lost. But we
recovered had a great time. I learned alot. He learned about soap
repair and hopefully we live happily ever after. I want to thank Mr.
Jim for all his knowledge, all his humor and mostly Miss Sue for letting
me borrow him on there anniversary weekend.
I had a great time.
dan f
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar |
Hi Thrush Driver Dan,
Thanks so much for the update on your search for the Thrush!
It is really good for us 'Downunder' folk to be looped in on the meanderings of
you and the Grand Poopah..we love receiving ANNOUNCEMENTS!
I wondered though whether the issues of a wheel chock being left in front of the
right hand gear and a life-size lump of poo, were properly discussed during
your time together and finally 'put to bed'!
It is really pleasing to know that retirement has lead you to the opportunity to
squarely consider 'straight' marriage and that you have an outcome!!
Glad to read that 69U is getting through the air.
All the very best from Oz!
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Well, Cap't Dan, that is not exactly like I remember it!!? Seems we were doing
right fine, I was ensuring a safe and comfortable trip while flying from the right
seat.?All went well until center gave us a heading to a radial then a DME
fix , then cleared us direct to our destination?and then asked us for a position
report.? I calmly asked Capt Dan?if he might find time in his busy schedule
to?call up the new VOR frq and place it in the G530 while?I flew the plane,
climbed to the new altitude, turned to the new heading,?dead recon navigated,
adjusted the heater (he was to hot), checked for ice, relayed on the radio and
took a sip from my diet coke.? It seemed like an eternity but?I know it could
not have taken Capt Dan more that 35 or 40 minutes to break the code on his easy
to use G530 and set in the new freq.? Of course by the time he had skillfully
accomplished this arduous task,?I had flown the aforementioned 90 nautical
miles, via dead reckoning,?and we?were at the turn p
oint.? I estimated we were about 45 feet to the left of course and 3 feet high
in altitude.
Now, for a future plans to marry and move to the north country.? The answer is
no Dan, I said it then and I say it again, no.? The only thing I found worth while
was the chili at the "chili fest" in the motel on the way home. (Imagine
if you will, spending the night in a room with capt Dan after we had consumed
a total of 14 bowls of chili).
As we "defarted"? the next morning, there was no need to "gas" the plane.? It gave
new meaning to flying an airplane with a "combustion" heater.? Capt Dans 500B
performed great but it was nearly impossible to keep the airplane right side
up in the turbulence so the eybrow windows came im right handy!!.? All in all
it was a fun trip!!? Capt jimbob
The Grand Poopah really loves the Garmin 530.? A person can not dial the knobs
and push buttons fast enough to keep up with the request so he natuarlly got us
lost.? But we recovered had a great time..
-----Original Message-----
From: daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 6:40 am
Subject: Commander-List: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar
Royal Grand Poopah and I traveled to Weyburn, SK, Canada to look at a Thrush.?
That is an airplane not a rash.? The Grand Poopah loved the hinder land sooo much
that he has decided nexts years fly in will be held there.? Only in January,?
so we can get the most enjoyment out of -35 F.? You simply cannot believe
how he loves cold weather.
I flew 69U to FTG Denver then drove over to DIA to pick up the Grand Poopah as
they do not like "big" planes at DIA.? Then we flew to Williston, ND to drive
to Weyburn..? The Grand Poopah and I are such a team we discussed moving to CA
and getting married.? Then we found out that "normal straights" could not get
married.?? Not that the Grand Poopah is normal but he tells me that he is straight--although
he had a constant reference to a bar of soap repair that I taught
him.
He also showed me the Hoover manuver--NOT the Bob Hoover but the Hoover vacum.?
THAT MAN CAN EAT.?? The Grand Poopah really loves the Garmin 530.? A person can
not dial the knobs and push buttons fast enough to keep up with the request
so he natuarlly got us lost.? But we recovered had a great time..? I learned
alot.? He learned about soap repair and hopefully we live happily ever after.?
I want to thank Mr. Jim for all his knowledge, all his humor and mostly Miss
Sue for letting me borrow him on there anniversary weekend.
I had a great time.
dan f
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar |
Hey Capt Jimbob,
Whoops...I have just been reminded that there are always TWO sides to a good story!!!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar |
Capt'n:
Any idea when our fly in will be this fall? (Hint, Hint, John Towner and I
are pushing for RNO during the air races).
Also, is anyone out there considering "the other Commander" get together May
6th? Although it is primarily for kerosene burners they have always been
nice to me.
Haven't been since it was held in Ft. Lauderdale a few years ago. At that
time I abandoned 680RR in Pensacola and drove the remainder of the trip in a
renta-rocket to avoid the embarrassment of being tied down next to big
commanders with half of my paint job missing. My cover story was that there
was a terrible line of thunderstorms between Pensacola and Lauderdale.
Unfortunately, Stan and Bob Perkins blew my cover story by flying in from
Southern California also. This year I have changed strategies. Just
yesterday, I went to Lowes and purchased four rattle cans of refrigerator
white paint, and if the wind ever gets below 30 knots here on the high mesa
where I am tied down proper repairs will be made.
Should I decide to go my much coveted Golden Pedal Award will be proudly
displayed on the glare shield of N680RR.
Moe Mills
N680RR
--------------------------------------------------
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar
>
> Hey Capt Jimbob,
>
> Whoops...I have just been reminded that there are always TWO sides to a
> good story!!!
>
> Cheers from Oz
>
> Russell
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar |
Hi all,
My dad and I are planning to go to the "other" fly-in in May, and Moe, since
you and I will now be flying in from opposite directions, I promise not to
contradict any of the stories you tell!
As far as the fall fly-in, I vote for RNO as well.
Stan
N681SP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Moe-rosspistons
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar
Capt'n:
Any idea when our fly in will be this fall? (Hint, Hint, John Towner and I
are pushing for RNO during the air races).
Also, is anyone out there considering "the other Commander" get together May
6th? Although it is primarily for kerosene burners they have always been
nice to me.
Haven't been since it was held in Ft. Lauderdale a few years ago. At that
time I abandoned 680RR in Pensacola and drove the remainder of the trip in a
renta-rocket to avoid the embarrassment of being tied down next to big
commanders with half of my paint job missing. My cover story was that there
was a terrible line of thunderstorms between Pensacola and Lauderdale.
Unfortunately, Stan and Bob Perkins blew my cover story by flying in from
Southern California also. This year I have changed strategies. Just
yesterday, I went to Lowes and purchased four rattle cans of refrigerator
white paint, and if the wind ever gets below 30 knots here on the high mesa
where I am tied down proper repairs will be made.
Should I decide to go my much coveted Golden Pedal Award will be proudly
displayed on the glare shield of N680RR.
Moe Mills
N680RR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar |
| From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Yes, I will be I Scottsdale and I want? invite all our members to attend.? We have a personal invitation from both Mark Twombly, TCAC spoksman and Jim Mathison, the outgoing owner.? The new owners will be there of course and we, the piston owners, are invited.? We can all register at the TCAC web site (www.wincommander.com).? They want to hear from us.? What our concerns a piston owners are.? They also want to talk to anyone who has flown a long or unusual trip in? piston Commander for a possible spot on the speakers list.? lets have a good showing for the new owners and to saw goodbye to a good friend, Jim Mathison.? jb
Also, is anyone out there considering "the other Commander" get together May 6th?
Although it is primarily for kerosene burners they have always been nice to
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 5:24 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar
?
Capt'n:?
?
Any idea when our fly in will be this fall? (Hint, Hint, John Towner and I are
pushing for RNO during the air races).?
?
Also, is anyone out there considering "the other Commander" get together May 6th?
Although it is primarily for kerosene burners they have always been nice to
me.?
?
Haven't been since it was held in Ft. Lauderdale a few years ago. At that time
I abandoned 680RR in Pensacola and drove the remainder of the trip in a renta-rocket
to avoid the embarrassment of being tied down next to big commanders with
half of my paint job missing. My cover story was that there was a terrible
line of thunderstorms between Pensacola and Lauderdale. Unfortunately, Stan and
Bob Perkins blew my cover story by flying in from Southern California also.
This year I have changed strategies. Just yesterday, I went to Lowes and purchased
four rattle cans of refrigerator white paint, and if the wind ever gets below
30 knots here on the high mesa where I am tied down proper repairs will be
made.?
?
Should I decide to go my much coveted Golden Pedal Award will be proudly displayed
on the glare shield of N680RR.?
?
Moe Mills?
N680RR?
--------------------------------------------------?
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>?
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:37 PM?
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ANNOUNCEMENT-TCFG annual seminar?
?
>?
> Hey Capt Jimbob,?
>?
> Whoops...I have just been reminded that there are always TWO sides to a > good
story!!!?
>?
> Cheers from Oz?
>?
> Russell?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> ?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Bill,
I just got a response from a comment after I noticed that this guy has a picture
of a 500S flying over the ocean with his main door opened.
If you think the comment is worth pursuing, this guy also seems to know the paperwork
track... They are all from "down under" so our folks there can continue
assisting translating (although I noticed that some are part of this group too)
otherwise, I can contact them through Facebook if you want further info (I'm
afraid you'll have to sign in if you want to see the picture -not super quality,
but door definitively open in flight!). hope this alternate view helps:
Rod Smith also commented on Dean Erwin's photo...
From: Facebook (notification+m1pwu-id(at)facebookmail.com)
Sent: Wed 3/04/09 1:04 PM
Rod replied after your comment on Dean Erwin's photo:
"This was a fibreglass 'plug' door. The suction around the body pretty much held
it there, plus some internal pins front and back. To open it the pins came out
and you had to pull the door in slightly and slide it forward. We had an AFM
supplement, not sure if Dave still has one in EXC's AFM though."
To see the comment thread, follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/n/?photo.php&pid=1226088&id=611467150&op=1&subj=38090073191&view=all&aid=-1&oid=38090073191&aref 558419
Thanks,
The Facebook Team
[quote="BillLeff1(at)aol.com"]Does anyone have, or know of someone who has, an
approval to fly with the cabin or baggage door removed?
If so, could you send me contact information?
Thanks
Bill Leff
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233185#233185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
Well spotted Peter!
Dr David Fitzgerald... the current owner of 500S VH-EXC is a member of this list
I am sure he would be 'close' to the paperwork and logbook entries in relation
to this mod.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Fitzgerald" <DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
Plane is remote from me at the moment but I'll see the flight manual on
Saturday and see if I can find the paperwork and scan and post it to the
list then.
Cheers
Dave
Dr David Fitzgerald
BMedSci(Hons) MBBS(Hons) ACCAM DipAvMed(Otago)
DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com
mob 0438 312973
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Flying with doors removed.
Well spotted Peter!
Dr David Fitzgerald... the current owner of 500S VH-EXC is a member of this
list
I am sure he would be 'close' to the paperwork and logbook entries in
relation
to this mod.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:41:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed. |
Thanks, I'll look for it.
Bill Leff
BillLeff(at)aol.com
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillLeff1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shark Fin Antenna |
Russel, can you point me to that data for flying with the doors removed.
Thanks
Bill Leff
BillLeff(at)aol.com
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
Hey, Guys... Anyone know what went with Gary Gadbury??? Is DT airpark
back in business in some way? Just heard rumors... Be nice to know the
deal... Have a Great Day!
William D. Owens, GISP
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gary Gadbury |
Hi William,
I think Gary is still around.
Former employees of Downtown Airpark are now running an Authorised
Service Center called Legacy Aviation Services Inc., at C. E. Page
Airport, Yukon, Oklahoma.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: David Owens
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Gary Gadbury
Hey, Guys... Anyone know what went with Gary Gadbury??? Is DT airpark
back in business in some way? Just heard rumors... Be nice to know the
deal... Have a Great Day!
William D. Owens, GISP
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Mansfeld <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Gadbury |
The Gary Gadbury that I know works out of Chattanooga, TN airport, (CHA). I think
the name of his business is Air Centers, Inc. and he's a big AC man. The
AC-680FLP I fly was bought from Gary.
RM
---- Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi William,
>
> I think Gary is still around.
>
> Former employees of Downtown Airpark are now running an Authorised Service Center
called Legacy Aviation Services Inc., at C. E. Page Airport, Yukon, Oklahoma.
>
> Best Regards,
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Owens
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 5:43 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: Gary Gadbury
>
>
>
> Hey, Guys... Anyone know what went with Gary Gadbury??? Is DT airpark back
in business in some way? Just heard rumors... Be nice to know the deal... Have
a Great Day!
>
>
>
> William D. Owens, GISP
> Aerial Viewpoint
> N14AV
> AC-500A-Colemill
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Gadbury |
Yea, that's him... Just heard rumors...
William D. Owens, GISP
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Gadbury |
Gadbury is still around and kicking in Chattanooga, Tn,
**************Need a job? Find employment help in your area.
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Gadbury |
Thanks, I found him... :)
William D. Owens, GISP
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | What a nostalgic moment... |
Folks,
My nephew started flying at the same club I learned to fly and found this in
the club's archives. Now that brought back some memories! The H. van Niekerk
is my brother who got me into flying back in the '60s.
The three-letter designations are South African aircraft registrations and
are preceded with ZS-.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a nostalgic moment... |
Hi Nico,
Thanks for sending that.
Strange what can be found to bring back "the old days" every now and then.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:45 PM
Subject: Commander-List: What a nostalgic moment...
| Folks,
|
| My nephew started flying at the same club I learned to fly and found this in
| the club's archives. Now that brought back some memories! The H. van Niekerk
| is my brother who got me into flying back in the '60s.
| The three-letter designations are South African aircraft registrations and
| are preceded with ZS-.
|
| Nico
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
Sorry, Chris... Have a Great Weekend!
William D. Owens, GISP
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> |
N670CB changed hands Thursday. It was purchased by MCR Oil Tools, LLC
and will be based in New Iberia, LA and Arlington, TX.
It is a beautiful airplane and the only remaining Grand Renaissance
Shrike. It is equipped with the Merlin 350 hp. engines and the Merlin
extra fuel kit.
Good to be back in a Commander again.
Kindest regards,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Hi Bill,
I take it that you are the captain of that beautiful ship now. If so,
congratulations!
I saw it advertised on Controller and wondered what the performance gains
are having the 350 hp engines in there and whether they are Continentals or
did they retain the Lyc's. I have so many questions about the configuration,
why was the conversions stopped, and so on. Could someone fill in the
blanks?
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wiliam
Boelte
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: Commander-List: N670CB
N670CB changed hands Thursday. It was purchased by MCR Oil Tools, LLC and
will be based in New Iberia, LA and Arlington, TX.
It is a beautiful airplane and the only remaining Grand Renaissance Shrike.
It is equipped with the Merlin 350 hp. engines and the Merlin extra fuel
kit.
Good to be back in a Commander again.
Kindest regards,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> |
Nico,
The engines are Lycoming TIO-540's with intercoolers. They are the
Merlyn installation. Merlyn also installed their extra capacity fuel
tanks to give a total of 255 gal. The installation has only a single
filler and there are no tank selector valves, only the two fuel/hyd.
firewall shut off valves.
The previous owners made a good effort not to overload the airplane with
"goodies" and it has a useful load of about 3,300 lb.. I believe that
the pay load with full fuel is 1,668 lb.. (Merlyn increased the max.
gross to 8,800 lb..)
The acceleration is impressive. and it will go fast.
Gary Gadberry installed the air conditioning which makes a great
difference. My first airplane, a 500-B Commander, did not have air
conditioning so I find the change very impressive.
The turbos have automatic waste gates with density altitude controllers
and are very easy to manage. The avionics are impressive also: Stec-65
autopilot with altitude pre select, TCAS, Radar, Garmin 430W with XM
weather, Garmin GMX 200 display, JPI engine monitor, digital fuel flows
and a KX-155 nav comm. I have spent two days reading operating manuals.
It is a very impressive airplane!
Ban Yan did the Grand Renaissance conversion in 2000 and the pre-buy.
That is a very impressive organization.
Kindest regards,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, 15 March, 2009 20:52
Subject: RE: Commander-List: N670CB
Hi Bill,
I take it that you are the captain of that beautiful ship now. If so,
congratulations!
I saw it advertised on Controller and wondered what the performance
gains are having the 350 hp engines in there and whether they are
Continentals or did they retain the Lyc's. I have so many questions
about the configuration, why was the conversions stopped, and so on.
Could someone fill in the blanks?
Thanks
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wiliam
Boelte
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:45 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: N670CB
N670CB changed hands Thursday. It was purchased by MCR Oil Tools, LLC
and will be based in New Iberia, LA and Arlington, TX.
It is a beautiful airplane and the only remaining Grand Renaissance
Shrike. It is equipped with the Merlin 350 hp. engines and the Merlin
extra fuel kit.
Good to be back in a Commander again.
Kindest regards,
Bill
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "apg86" <apg86(at)hotmail.com> |
I need to get a Hydraulic Pump, Part Number: 105-HNG-275C, Replacement For: Twin
Commander 4790332-1. Make/Model: Twin Commander (681).
January 31, 2009 - March 23, 2009
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dh